I never thought he could top the script that he wrote for Being John Malkovich. But he did. Adaptation is ingenious. I might be more impressed with the screenplay than the actual film (altho i did enjoy the film alot). I want to get a copy of it so i can read it and giving a character in the film a real-life writing credit? that's unprecedented as far as i know. Beyond original. If he doesn't get the Oscar, i'll never watch it again.
d
"People are stupider than anybody" - Tom Lehrer
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1. "Don't... don't... don't believe" In response to Reply # 0
they hype. Hollywood likes celebrity writers just like they like celebrity actors. He's milking the system and he is smart. Genius is taking his punchline gimmicks way too far for me.
2. "what punchline gimmicks?" In response to Reply # 1
please explain...
d
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"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
part of me thought adaptation was great. the other part thought it was just a big cop out.
Kaufman clearly didn't know how to adapt the orchid thief, so he simply writes about himself as a big fat loser trying to write the orchid thief. He clearly doesn't have an ending, so out of the blue he tacks on a typical thrilling climax followed by a Casablanca ending.
Yeah he was letting us in on the joke the whole time but...?
I enjoyed the hell out of both Being John Mlkovich and Adaptation (funny as hell), but calling Kaufman a genius is a stretch. With Adaptation he didn't come up with anything that every jaded/cynical screenwriters hasn't thought of at least once. It's just he got a great cast and a smartass director to actually pull it off.
But Hell, it was better than over half of the bullshit movies I've seen of late.
he didn't write the ending. Donald Kaufman did. so charlie got the last laff
"People are stupider than anybody" - Tom Lehrer
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"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
7. "and THAT" In response to Reply # 6 Fri Jan-24-03 09:21 AM
is what makes this screenplay so brilliant to me. Based on the way its written, it actually wrote itself. The screenplay itself became another character in the film. Donald Kaufman did not exist until (real life) Charlie wrote him into the screenplay. Once he did exist, Charlie asked him to finish the screenplay and he did. The 3rd act is what Donald "wrote", thereby winning him a real life writing credit.
*folds arms*
d "People are stupider than anybody" - Tom Lehrer
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"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
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"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
but how does that qualify as genius? simply writing the rest of the movie as 'donald' would have done it(the base, low-brow hollywood thriller), instead of charlie?
------ "I can't promise I'll try. But I'll try to try."
14. "i can't explain it further" In response to Reply # 11
its just brilliant to me. we differ in opinion
d
"People are stupider than anybody" - Tom Lehrer
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"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
but i'm thinking the book doesn't have everything that made me dig the movie...
As in, the author probably didn't become a junky on the grounds of ghost orchids...
There's probably no mention of "The 3"
Don't get me wrong I way dug this movie. But how easy is it to write a movie about a fat writer with writer's block who masturbates all the time and can't get women? Especially when you ARE a fat writer with writer's block who masturbates all the time and can't get a woman...
I give mad props to any movie that can entertain and still serve as a big middle finger to the industry. But I can only appreciate it as such. Genius it ain't.
>Don't get me wrong I way dug this movie. But how easy is it >to write a movie about a fat writer with writer's block who >masturbates all the time and can't get women? Especially >when you ARE a fat writer with writer's block who >masturbates all the time and can't get a woman... That's part of the trick. Kaufman is actually pretty slim and has no more problems than the next guy getting girls. Cage just decided to make him fat. Which is a whole nother convo.
"I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all."
"Shit, this board is full of villians enough to start a Legion Of Doom AND A Brotherhood of Evil"--DawgEatah
8. "RE: The Brilliance of Charlie Kaufman" In response to Reply # 0
Im ambivalent about adaptation, moments of the film and writing were brilliant, most, however, were self-indulgent. I feel like the entire movie was encapsulated in the scene where he is trying to wack off in bed but gets interrupted by his brother.
I am more interested in checking out the clooney directed flick, _confessions of a dangerous mind_ a book kaufman actually adapted.
19. "the nominations are not in yet" In response to Reply # 15
so we don't know if it was overlooked or not
d
"People are stupider than anybody" - Tom Lehrer
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"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
17. "Another reason Kaufman is NOT a genius" In response to Reply # 0
Plot synopsis of Sam Shepard's "True West" (one of the holy grails for playwrights/screenwriters):
One brother who is a well-established screenwriter is joined by his loose canon brother who is between homes. Brother #2 meets Brother #1's producer and sells him on his screenplay idea before he's written a single word. He tries to get his brother to help him become a screenwriter so he can write a story about a guy on a horse being chased by cops in cars across the Mexican desert.
"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
21. "Okay I'll break it down further" In response to Reply # 20
- 2 brothers = Adaptation - One a screenwriter, the other trying to be = Adaptation - The pretender gets a film deal for big money = Adaptation - The screenplay is about a man on a horse vs cops in cars = Adaptation.
Tell me where I'm wrong. And of course I've seen "8 1/2". And yes, so has Charlie.
The thing that bothers me most is that when you borrow so liberally from other people's work the least you could do is acknowledge it in interviews instead of continuing to masturbate over your own genius knowing the typical American film-goer will never know the difference.
25. "should we break it down" In response to Reply # 21
oh where its completeley different? Seriously films that are hailed here like memento are just rip offs of tons of other films of you compare them that way. Amorres Peros is a great film, but it also uses alot of tarantinos devices.
46. "It is near to impossible" In response to Reply # 25
to give Tarantino credit for "originating" anything. Stop that. It's an acknowledged fact that his films are made-up of a hodge podge of films he worshipped while working as a video store clerk. He is the posterboy for "adapting" other filmmakers work into his own and he openly admits it. He's even done specials pointing the films out for you.
Just because you can reference Birth of a Nation doesn't mean Adaptation didn't suck. I don't care whether it was original or not (it wasn't), the script wasn't funny, it's easy as hell to make anti-Hollywood jokes, and he already did the self-loathing thing 15,000 times better in Malkovich.
8 1/2 was a perfect movie. Adaptation decidedly isn't.
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23. "None of y'all can sleep on Charlie Kaufman" In response to Reply # 0
He is responsible for the 3 most original scripts within the past 5 years: Being John Malkovich, Adaptation, and Confessions of a Dangerous Mind. And Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, his next (starring Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet), will be equally great. The ending to Adaptation wasn't a copout; it was his intention. He wanted to jar you and make the film take a 90 degree turn. It's supposed to be different. And while some can say that Human Nature sucked, I think that is no fault of the script: the script is still incredibly fresh and original, just the execution of said script wasn't a total success. Lewis out.
"if he doesn't get the oscar, i'll never watch it again" .. thats the same way i feel.. and its the same way i felt with the golden globes.. about schmidt was tight but how did alexander payne and jim taylor win over charlie (and figurative brother donald) kaufman?? fuck the golden globes.. that was one of the worst ceremonies ever..
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"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
but if a film you did was up for one, you be licking oscar's gold balls. and spare me...i already know you're gonna say that's not true.
d
"People are stupider than anybody" - Tom Lehrer
Hosted by Jay Smooth and Damali Saturdays from Midnite-2am WBAI 99.5 FM NY
"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
36. "it doesn't matter to me" In response to Reply # 34
the oscars are about the business of making movies. and that's the business i want to be in, period. so i watch because it interests me. i don't care if you think its weak or not. I simply look forward to, and enjoy watching the Oscars every year
d
"People are stupider than anybody" - Tom Lehrer
Hosted by Jay Smooth and Damali Saturdays from Midnite-2am WBAI 99.5 FM NY
"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
39. "it's just a dumb cult of personality" In response to Reply # 36
and you know it.
i'm not gonna tell you that if i got one of them awards that i'd give it back... it's the highest honor of the movie industry, awarded to you by your peers, people who supposedly love movies, too. i guess that counts for something. but for the most part, it has very little to do with actual quality.
good work often does get rewarded..more often than not. so in my opinion it does recognize quality.
d
"People are stupider than anybody" - Tom Lehrer
Hosted by Jay Smooth and Damali Saturdays from Midnite-2am WBAI 99.5 FM NY
"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
you can like the oscars all you want thats your biz
but all that bullshit about im an actor and i cant help it is a heap of shit and you shouldnt sell it to yourself or anything else
yeah we all wanna be a success yeah people want to eat but this business is not about talent its about money so dont confuse the two and talk about the oscars as being some kind of hand and hand qualtiy borometer for good work cause all that doing is further protistuting creativity to make money
and nobodys getting paid to lie on okayplayer so just stop
what i believe make you so angry? and who are you to tell me that i'm lying to myself, of all people? You obviously don't know me as well as you think you do so chill...
I'm an optimist and i DO believe that this business about talent as well as money. And there's nothing you can say to make me change that belief. Just because you don't agree doesn't make you right. so back off
d
"People are stupider than anybody" - Tom Lehrer
Hosted by Jay Smooth and Damali Saturdays from Midnite-2am WBAI 99.5 FM NY
"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz "But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly
44. "Adaptation....i gave it * * * *" In response to Reply # 40
Was way better and caught me off gaurd. I was laughing out loud at thier ridiculous exploits of this self-loathing screenwriter, his shallow brother and thier friends...
ridiculously good with Cage playing a sublter character for once instead of an angst ridden over-the-top anti-hero.
I laugher at the Native/Seminole guys the most...( go figure)...?
47. "The Oscars are completely irrelevant" In response to Reply # 40
If last year didn't convince you I don't know what will. That shit is strictly money and outside influence. Talent or merit have very little to do with who wins and/or loses.
>who wins or loses has a lot of effect on what comes to >screens later. > >Calling them completely irrelevant is more than a slight >overstatement.
About both of these things. They matter to studios so in turn they matter to filmmakers. I understand that. Really, what I meant is they are irrelevant in determining what the best film, writing, performances were from that year.
It's just too easy to talk about how the Oscars suck and Hollywood sucks and all that. People who are watching the Oscars to see what's the best film, etc., are simply watching for the wrong reasons.
49. "what's so great about BJM???" In response to Reply # 0 Mon Jan-27-03 10:47 AM
the movie was ok... it mostly weirded me out, with all the lengths they were stooping to...but i'm not dissing the movie per se, i just wanna know why folks think it's great...
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56. "RE: what's so great about BJM???" In response to Reply # 55
Question about this movie. At the ending, are they trying to imply that Craig has now resorted to stalking the happy couple? So is that what his life is reduced to?
Come to grips with the fact that most OKP's are of the Nut Hugger lineage, so, if you' re not part of the little cliques that exist 'round here, your posts will probably tank like Souljaboy's album sales.
>Question about this movie. At the ending, are they trying >to imply that Craig has now resorted to stalking the happy >couple? So is that what his life is reduced to?
No. He messed up and was trapped in the baby's body.
"I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all."
"Shit, this board is full of villians enough to start a Legion Of Doom AND A Brotherhood of Evil"--DawgEatah
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