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Subject: "Who is the GOAT comic book writer?" This topic is locked.
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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Wed Sep-02-09 03:45 PM

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"Who is the GOAT comic book writer?"


  

          

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Overall, it's Alan Moore.
Sep 02nd 2009
1
Probably true. Frank Miller could give him a good run for his money thou...
Sep 02nd 2009
2
But it comes to dialogue and overall characterization...
Sep 02nd 2009
4
No not really
Sep 02nd 2009
6
A better post would be Who Is the #2 CWOAT?
Sep 02nd 2009
3
There's Alan Moore, and then there's everyone else
Sep 02nd 2009
5
      Truth
Sep 02nd 2009
7
      Determining #2-#5 is kind of difficult.
Sep 02nd 2009
8
           You're right. I dunno what I was thinking.
Sep 02nd 2009
9
                I detect a scurrilous attempt to bolster the value of your
Sep 03rd 2009
14
                     Worth anything? It's worth MILLIONS.
Sep 03rd 2009
16
                          What title was it again?
Sep 03rd 2009
33
                               meeting Stan Lee was a once in a lifetime opportunity
Sep 03rd 2009
35
                                    justin scott just sensed a serious disturbance in the force
Sep 04th 2009
70
How's Geoff Johns' body of work holding up iyo?
Sep 02nd 2009
10
In terms of story structure, he's as good as anyone
Sep 02nd 2009
11
      He's up there for me, but I only have mainstream DC stuff to go by
Sep 03rd 2009
18
           RE: He's up there for me, but I only have mainstream DC stuff to go by
Sep 03rd 2009
26
I think we should talk about where Gaiman would rank
Sep 02nd 2009
12
I love Gaiman, but the problem with
Sep 03rd 2009
13
75 amazing issues though
Sep 03rd 2009
20
      It's not like his other stuff is crap though
Sep 03rd 2009
21
           Loved his Miracleman stuff. And that Batman 2 parter was cool too.
Sep 03rd 2009
24
           Damn, forgot about "Whatever Happened...?" That was dope.
Sep 03rd 2009
25
           Eternals was mediocre
Sep 03rd 2009
30
           Eternals was NOT dope, sir .
Sep 03rd 2009
37
                Yes, yes it was. I was unaware of the Eternals backlash
Sep 04th 2009
47
RE: I think we should talk about where Gaiman would rank
Sep 03rd 2009
27
Miracleman and Sandman
Sep 04th 2009
51
where would you guys rank Morrison?? n/m
Sep 03rd 2009
15
I'll get crucified here but
Sep 03rd 2009
17
oh i completely agree wit you
Sep 03rd 2009
19
***Gets nails and cross**
Sep 03rd 2009
23
He's shaky as hell but I can't see him not being Top 10
Sep 03rd 2009
22
Morrison is like Eminem to me
Sep 03rd 2009
29
Great analogy
Sep 03rd 2009
31
easily top 5-
Sep 06th 2009
93
      I will say this much
Sep 06th 2009
94
           animal man 1-26
Sep 06th 2009
97
There is no GOAT, only sheep.
Sep 03rd 2009
28
What's your take on Warren Ellis?
Sep 03rd 2009
32
I'll say Top 10
Sep 03rd 2009
34
Not a fan of is "splatter" stuff
Sep 03rd 2009
36
The meat of my understanding of him is still Transmet.
Sep 03rd 2009
38
i'd put him in my 10 just of the diversity and quality of his work
Sep 04th 2009
40
He lands in my top 10 on the strength of Planetary alone.
Sep 04th 2009
58
Where would Claremont rank?
Sep 04th 2009
39
*gives that "who brought this guy to poker night" look*
Sep 04th 2009
42
Seriously
Sep 04th 2009
43
icecold21 describes how he's posting when he's posting
Sep 04th 2009
44
In defense of Claremont, he's a complicated case
Sep 04th 2009
46
this is why it needs to be broken down in eras
Sep 04th 2009
56
that was Buck
Sep 04th 2009
62
      I thought so. But I've creditted Buck before with stuff you've said
Sep 04th 2009
64
           Well that's a compliment, that is.
Sep 04th 2009
73
                ^^ His words, not mine
Sep 04th 2009
75
You literally made me LOL
Sep 04th 2009
52
Okay, maybe I'm a little biased. Mutant Genesis was my shit
Sep 04th 2009
87
      long halloween is the best thing loeb ever did
Sep 06th 2009
95
Marv Wolfman on the llist?
Sep 04th 2009
41
Overlooked and underated
Sep 04th 2009
79
      He deserves mjaor propers for pulling off the O.G. Crisis
Sep 04th 2009
80
In the post-Moore crop, I think Brubaker's gonna take it.
Sep 04th 2009
45
Consistently awesome and Sleeper is one of the best comics ever
Sep 04th 2009
59
Brubaker FUCKED UP Daredevil
Sep 04th 2009
67
generally speaking, I liked it, but I didn't read Bendis's run.
Sep 04th 2009
72
Brian K. Vaughan would like to have a word with you.
Sep 05th 2009
91
No Bendis in current discussion?
Sep 04th 2009
48
yeah, people will be discussing Bendis...
Sep 04th 2009
49
^^UNDERRATED REPLY^^
Sep 04th 2009
54
FATALITY
Sep 04th 2009
89
Bendis, really lost points for me, with SECRET INVASION!
Sep 04th 2009
50
Thank you, thank you.....
Sep 04th 2009
53
As much (deserved) shit as I give Bendis, I'll say this:
Sep 04th 2009
55
I'm actually surprised at how much of this I agree with.
Sep 04th 2009
69
      RE: I'm actually surprised at how much of this I agree with.
Sep 04th 2009
83
No Bendis on my pull list, and no Bendis in my Top 10
Sep 04th 2009
57
Bendis is in my top 10.
Sep 04th 2009
63
I didn't see this when i replied, I swear
Sep 04th 2009
68
better questions: do the GOATs get ass?
Sep 04th 2009
60
I'm definitely not the right guy to ask
Sep 04th 2009
61
them bitches call him Cumshot Yacunt.
Sep 04th 2009
71
here's an answer
Sep 04th 2009
65
Brian Michael Bendis
Sep 04th 2009
66
Brian K Vaughan
Sep 04th 2009
74
Yeah, I was going to mention him when I got back from lunch
Sep 04th 2009
78
Y: The Last Man, was a brilliant comic book...enjoyed reading it.
Sep 04th 2009
81
Found some GOAT lists online
Sep 04th 2009
76
buck, if youo're going to break into that list, it's clear your chances
Sep 04th 2009
77
Don't forget tropical and/or character print shirt
Sep 04th 2009
85
well, those pictures made ME hot
Sep 04th 2009
88
What do you guys think of Robert Crumb?
Sep 04th 2009
82
I'm not familiar enough with his work, truth be told.
Sep 04th 2009
84
For me, it comes down to the 3Ms...
Sep 04th 2009
86
Stan Lee, motherfuckers
Sep 05th 2009
90
this post is yet ANOTHER example
Sep 06th 2009
92
^^ Disgruntled Winick Fan
Sep 06th 2009
96
      lol, ouch!
Sep 06th 2009
98
Gotta give the man his props
Sep 06th 2009
99
      yes, he deserves a helluvalot of propers
Sep 06th 2009
100
           No arguments here
Sep 06th 2009
104
Here's an oldie but GOATie... Gardner Fox
Sep 06th 2009
101
didn't he kick off the jla?
Sep 06th 2009
102
      JSA *and* JLA!!!
Sep 06th 2009
103
where would you rank garth ennis?
Sep 06th 2009
105

mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Wed Sep-02-09 03:47 PM

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1. "Overall, it's Alan Moore."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
8433 posts
Wed Sep-02-09 03:58 PM

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2. "Probably true. Frank Miller could give him a good run for his money thou..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Wed Sep-02-09 04:08 PM

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4. "But it comes to dialogue and overall characterization..."
In response to Reply # 2
Wed Sep-02-09 04:09 PM by mrhood75

  

          

...Miller is pretty lacking when compared to Moore. Miller was great at establishing mood, and a true innovator in many ways. He's created many great and iconic scenes in comic history. But let's be realistic: his dialogue could be, and often still is, painful to read. And quite a few of his characters are pretty two-dimensional. And he's batshit crazy in a batshit crazier way than Moore.

Moore took coic book wriitng to the next level. Comics are still aping themes he first explored close to 25 years ago.

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https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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MrMajor
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Wed Sep-02-09 05:12 PM

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6. "No not really"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Frank Miller's overall body of work doesn't even come close to Moore's.

  

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lonesome_d
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Wed Sep-02-09 03:59 PM

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3. "A better post would be Who Is the #2 CWOAT?"
In response to Reply # 1


          

b/c Moore just really has it on lock.

Speaking of which, I still haven't read his Swamp Thing.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Wed Sep-02-09 04:11 PM

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5. "There's Alan Moore, and then there's everyone else"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

Dude's thinking and craft are just light years ahead of the game.

But I'll be back later with some contenders for the #2-5 spots!

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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MrMajor
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Wed Sep-02-09 05:16 PM

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7. "Truth"
In response to Reply # 5


          

>Dude's thinking and craft are just light years ahead of the
>game.

He's so ahead of everyone else he is in a class all alone.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44718 posts
Wed Sep-02-09 05:53 PM

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8. "Determining #2-#5 is kind of difficult."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Iono, it's kind of hard to determine how many of the current crop of geniuses and how many of the innovators would make the list.

Like, really, I love me some Kirby. He was the original big idea and imagination guy in comics, bar none. But his dialogue was more stilted than Wilbur Day. I've had the same problem with Ditko after reading some of those early issues of Spider-Man. I mean, yeah, comics were written like that back then, but ugh. And where do you factor in guys who were great during their time, still write now, but have either turned into charicatures of themselves (Chris Claremont), devolved into insanity (Frank Miller) or become complete ass-clowns (John Byrne)?

However, at the end of the day, I have no problem putting any of the aforementioned guys above Jeph Loeb or Rob Liefeld or something.

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www.albumism.com

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
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Wed Sep-02-09 06:09 PM

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9. "You're right. I dunno what I was thinking."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

I could pretty easily devise a Top 5 current day comic writers.

But All Time? Nah, you'd really need to break it down into eras.

However if I were to foolishly attempt a Top 5 GOAT list, I think I'd put Stan Lee at the #2 spot.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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lonesome_d
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Thu Sep-03-09 09:14 AM

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14. "I detect a scurrilous attempt to bolster the value of your "
In response to Reply # 9


          

Stan Lee autographed comic.

>However if I were to foolishly attempt a Top 5 GOAT list, I
>think I'd put Stan Lee at the #2 spot.

(Seriously, though, is that thing worth anything?)

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
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Thu Sep-03-09 11:32 AM

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16. "Worth anything? It's worth MILLIONS."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

But I'm willing to let you have it for $20

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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lonesome_d
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33. "What title was it again?"
In response to Reply # 16


          

Spider-Man #3, was it?

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Thu Sep-03-09 03:59 PM

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35. "meeting Stan Lee was a once in a lifetime opportunity"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

You think I'm gonna waste it on a signed copy of Spider-Man?

Naaaaah my dude.

I got him to sign THIS

http://www.richiebits.com/comics/covers/Ravage2099.jpg

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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lonesome_d
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Fri Sep-04-09 02:28 PM

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70. "justin scott just sensed a serious disturbance in the force"
In response to Reply # 35


          

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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theeraser
Member since Feb 11th 2007
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Wed Sep-02-09 06:37 PM

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10. "How's Geoff Johns' body of work holding up iyo?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Wed Sep-02-09 06:52 PM

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11. "In terms of story structure, he's as good as anyone"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Concept-wise, his stuff isn't really deep or anything, but it's about as perfectly executed as is possible (see: his Green Lantern stuff).

He has a solid grasp on writing super-heroes; he's written probably the best straight-ahead superhero stories over the last four years or so. And he can juggle very large casts of characters without making everyone sound the same, which is a valuable skill.

I don't know if I'd list him among the all-time greats, but he handles his business.

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www.albumism.com

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https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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buckshot defunct
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Thu Sep-03-09 12:20 PM

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18. "He's up there for me, but I only have mainstream DC stuff to go by"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

Good storytelling, a superb understanding of what makes his characters tick. I mean, this guy gets on a book and immediately *gets* it, and puts a spin on things that's as fresh as it is familiar. And he's clearly got a lot of respect for tradition and continuity which is why he works so well in the DCU.

But, you know, I've only see him operating in that one lane so it's difficult to say where I'd place him among the GOATs.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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Brother_Afron
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Thu Sep-03-09 12:56 PM

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26. "RE: He's up there for me, but I only have mainstream DC stuff to go by"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          


>But, you know, I've only see him operating in that one lane so
>it's difficult to say where I'd place him among the GOATs.

That's really the only lane he has. I can't even recall an interview where he ever expressed interest in anything else. That's probably the key to his success. Other writers in the big 2 hold back until they get that creator owned project popping, but Geoff gives it his all every time.

Fun is the new gritty

  

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JungleSouljah
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Wed Sep-02-09 07:35 PM

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12. "I think we should talk about where Gaiman would rank"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

______________________________
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The 4th Annual Residency Encampment: Where do we go from here?

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Invisiblist
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13. "I love Gaiman, but the problem with"
In response to Reply # 12


          

putting him in a list like this is that he's really only had one title that's been world-class.

  

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buckshot defunct
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20. "75 amazing issues though"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

But I see what you're saying

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@kennykeil

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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21. "It's not like his other stuff is crap though"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

And the stuff he does put out rans from damn good to great.

Never read his Miracleman stuff, but it's really beloved. The Eternals mini was dope, even if it rehashed themes from his American Gods novel. MArvel 1602 was really good as well (aside from the lame Angel/Marvel Girl sub-plot).

Quality trumps quantity in this case. And Gaiman makes a push for the Top 5 or 10 of all time.

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buckshot defunct
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Thu Sep-03-09 12:40 PM

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24. "Loved his Miracleman stuff. And that Batman 2 parter was cool too."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Thu Sep-03-09 12:41 PM

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25. "Damn, forgot about "Whatever Happened...?" That was dope."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

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www.albumism.com

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https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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MrMajor
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Thu Sep-03-09 02:01 PM

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30. "Eternals was mediocre"
In response to Reply # 21


          

And I'm not saying that to sound like the PTP contrarian. It was very run of the mill. I think sometimes writers get a pass just because they've been successful in the past. I'm not saying the man isn't talented by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just saying that series was fairly dull to me. I did enjoy the first few issues of the newer Eternal's series that picked up where Gaiman's left off.

  

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Invisiblist
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37. "Eternals was NOT dope, sir ."
In response to Reply # 21


          

No it was not. JrJr saved that book, not Gaiman. I love Gaiman. (Say that loudly in public one day when you're bored.) I really do. However, his awesomeness lies in Sandman, some Swamp Thing, some Hellblazer...and...?

I really liked 1602, but it wasn't incredible or anything.

I think it's fair to put him in top 10 just off of Sandman, but like Buck said, you gotta go by eras, so measuring him against Stan Lee is just silly. There's no point to it.

  

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mrhood75
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Fri Sep-04-09 09:36 AM

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47. "Yes, yes it was. I was unaware of the Eternals backlash"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

It wasn't a perfect story (and marred by delays on Gaiman's part), but it was still dope to me. It framed things nicely for the characters, and took the story in direction that worked for them. Again, it borrowed a lil' too much from his "Americna Gods" book, but I still thoroughly enjoyed it.

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Brother_Afron
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Thu Sep-03-09 01:00 PM

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27. "RE: I think we should talk about where Gaiman would rank"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

I've always had in the number 2 spot. Sandman is may be one title, but it's really just a vehicle to tell a dozen different comics under one name.

Of course, if I had to choose my favorite work from him I'd have to go with Books of Magic. That shit had me ready to believe in it by the end.

Fun is the new gritty

  

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bloocollar
Member since Aug 14th 2008
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Fri Sep-04-09 10:49 AM

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51. "Miracleman and Sandman"
In response to Reply # 12


          

make him number 2 overall.

I really think he excels the more mystical the story is

  

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Calico
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15. "where would you guys rank Morrison?? n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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MrMajor
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17. "I'll get crucified here but"
In response to Reply # 15


          

I'm going to say meh. I like Morrison, but I don't love him like a lot of folks do. I really enjoyed All Star Superman and I enjoy his B&R but those two books had Frank Quietly drawing them so its hard not to like them. I think even when paired with great artist I'm not as blown away by Morrison as most. Final Crisis and Seven Soldiers was just so disjointed and nonsensical to me. I find a lot of his stuff starts off very ambitious and grand but in the end never satisfies me.

  

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Calico
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19. "oh i completely agree wit you"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

and while you already said it, my biggest gripe is i really never like how he ends stories

"yes, sometimes my rhymes are sexist, but you lovely bitches and hos should know i'm tryin to correct it"- hiphopopotamus

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Thu Sep-03-09 12:39 PM

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23. "***Gets nails and cross**"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>I'm going to say meh. I like Morrison, but I don't love him
>like a lot of folks do. I really enjoyed All Star Superman and
>I enjoy his B&R but those two books had Frank Quietly drawing
>them so its hard not to like them.

Speaking of his collabos with Quitely, We3 and JLA: Earth 2 were fucking awesome as well, and not just for the artwork.


>Final Crisis and Seven Soldiers was just so disjointed and
>nonsensical to me.

I cna understand people not loving Final Crisis (though I disagree), but Seven Soldiers is really ambitious and superior comic book writing to me. The ways the stories interwove, the ideas or characters created, nd the overall story were all great to me.

Not to mention his lesser known stuff (like Aztek and Marvel Boy) are pretty brilliant as well.

I also put him in the top 10, maybe top 5 category.

-----------------

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
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22. "He's shaky as hell but I can't see him not being Top 10"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

I think this neo-Kirby period he went through with Seven Soldiers and Final Crisis may be coloring our perception of his overall career because most of his stories actually are quite coherent and straightforward, even if they are infused with a good deal of weirdness.

But yo, Doom Patrol? All Star Superman? Two of my favorite comic titles, EVER.

Animal Man? Top notch stuff. His JLA run? One of the best, even if I'm not a big fan of the art.

New X-Men? Dude made mutants *cool* to me for the first time since I was in junior high.

And we haven't even covered the non-superhero stuff. We3, Seaguy, Flex Mentallo, Invisibles, Vinamarama... the coherency of these varies, I'll admit, but that's quite a resume right there.

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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Brother_Afron
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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29. "Morrison is like Eminem to me"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

He's obviously highly talented, but at times his flow gets so out of control that it renders everything meaningless by the end.

Fun is the new gritty

  

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MrMajor
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31. "Great analogy"
In response to Reply # 29


          

I would say this in the same vein about both. I think he's clearly talented, I just don't care for all of his music/books.

  

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shockzilla
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93. "easily top 5-"
In response to Reply # 15


          

one of the few to give moore a run for his money.

  

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buckshot defunct
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94. "I will say this much"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

>one of the few to give moore a run for his money.

ASS sons anything Alan Moore ever wrote about the man of steel

-----------------------------
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@kennykeil

  

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shockzilla
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97. "animal man 1-26"
In response to Reply # 94


          

is one of the greatest runs in comics

from his early stuff like zenith

his doom patrol, the invisibles, new x-men

his various minis, such as we3

and just imagine his JLA with a better artist than porter.

dude can do it all

  

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JRennolds
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28. "There is no GOAT, only sheep."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-03-09 01:01 PM by JRennolds

  

          

Being a constantly evolving medium, the best may be yet to come...

STAN LEE, GRANT MORRISON, FRANK MILLER and, GARTH ENNIS are all strong contenders...

GOMD

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
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32. "What's your take on Warren Ellis?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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34. "I'll say Top 10"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Most people around the COTW posts, including yourself, should be familiar with my stance on him. I think he comes up with great ideas and is very good with particular themes. I like him best when he's a little less "extreme." Desolation Jones was extreme in grounded way, and NextWave was so tongue-in-cheek it didn't matter how off the deep end he was.

I think sometimes the guy needs a filter . Avatar seems happy to put out whatever the Hell he feels like putting out, and some of it has been really good (Black Summer, for instance). But alot of the times I wish he'd just slow his roll on the indie blood-and-guts stuff and concentrate on the titles he started in the past, the aforementioned Desolation Jones, for instance. See also his runs on Thunderbolts, Astonishing X-Men, and New universe, was got dragged down by delays on his part. However, it seems like his real passion is with the indie blood and guts stuff he just turns out by the ream.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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MrMajor
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36. "Not a fan of is "splatter" stuff"
In response to Reply # 34


          

But I do think he's at his best when he's writing his original characters or reinventing Marvel and DC ones (Authority, Planetary). I'm a big Ellis fan but I get tired of the "asshole" protagonist he tends to use a little too often. I don't know if he ever reversed his position on superheroes, but I always thought his take on the genre was some of his finest work. Definitely a top 10 writer, years ago he would have been my number 2.

  

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Invisiblist
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38. "The meat of my understanding of him is still Transmet. "
In response to Reply # 32


          

I've been reading it again, and am a bit perplexed at the long periods in the series where nothing really happens. I don't even really mean the plot not moving forward. I mean no real character development, no major emotional moments, no mind-blowing playing with the medium...a lot of cool shit in every issue, sure, but...

Outside of that, I loved his Thor run with Deodato (I think it was Deodato) and I loved his T-bolts, but now that I think about it I really don't know enough Ellis to warrant how much I love the dude.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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40. "i'd put him in my 10 just of the diversity and quality of his work"
In response to Reply # 32


          

you got your superhero stuff, you got your magic stuff (gravel keeps getting better), and I REALLY like his sci-fi work. Global Frequency, Ocean, Planetary - all pretty great.

  

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jadedeejay
Member since Sep 22nd 2006
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58. "He lands in my top 10 on the strength of Planetary alone."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

As a series, I think it holds up as being as great as Preacher, Watchmen, All Star Supes, or any of the other seminal masterpieces in comics history. It's a WRAP once they get around to putting an omnibus out.

I don't fux w/ his Avatar stuff really (they keep pairing him w/ shitty artists), but I'll at least give a few issues to any DC, Marvel, or Image stuff he tries his hand at.

I agree w/ MrMajor that Ellis is at his best when he's re-inventing Marvel & DC archetypes.

www.www.facebook.com/pages/DJJedi/44191809751
www.myspace.com/djjedi1
www.twitter.com/DJJedi

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Fri Sep-04-09 12:06 AM

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39. "Where would Claremont rank?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

GOAT X-Men writer, IMO. And while were at it, what about Loeb? Some of his Batman work was pretty phenomenal.

_________________________________________

  

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Invisiblist
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42. "*gives that "who brought this guy to poker night" look*"
In response to Reply # 39


          

  

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MrMajor
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43. "Seriously"
In response to Reply # 42


          

Claremont was only good when he was forced to work with Byrne's over inflated ego. That period where they worked together is super of the genre's most defining work. After that run they've been rehashing all that shit adnaseum to this day. Claremont on his own is just the same tired retreads that starts a thousand plots and never resolves any.

I never read Loeb's Batman. I...nevermind. Seriously Loeb? Really? Youre just fucking with us aren't you?

  

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KangolLove
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44. "icecold21 describes how he's posting when he's posting"
In response to Reply # 42


          

"...and now I click reply with my optical mouse, bub!"

__________________________________________

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Fri Sep-04-09 09:33 AM

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46. "In defense of Claremont, he's a complicated case"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Look, I think we can ALL agree that his writing of the X-Men during the mid '70s and early '80s was extremely innovative. The X-Men and just about all the X-Titles still lives in the universe and mythos that he helped create. I think it's easy to take for granted how much of the Marvel Universe, both characters and concepts, came from his mind. And, for better or worse, he pioneered a lot of the story-telling techniques the comic-book writers use today.

Now all the being said, he never evolved as a writer, and basically crawled up his own asshole. His stories and plotlines got extremely and needlessly convoluted. And every single plot arc ended up sounding the same, as he kept on relying on the same crutches over and over and over and over again. Being as he thought he was going to write X-Men forever, I guess he figured he could all explain in all in the end, except he never did. So he became a caricature of himself by the '90s, and when he is allowed to write these days, he writes the same way that he always has. And, as alluded to above, now damn near every single writer who writes an X-title these days follows Claremont's tired story "structure."

So yeah, he's got a complicated legacy.

As for, Loeb. Um... well... you're on your own there. I think it was either Buck or Invisiblst who once said it's become clear over time that Tim Sale was the one doing all the heavy lifting in their Batman stories and subsequent collaborations (all the "color" stuff they've done for Marvel). I thought the first Hush was pretty good, but ahain, he benefitted from his partnership with Jim Lee. These days, and even before them, he's benefitted from working with some of the best artists in the biz, but most of the results suck. His work on the Ultimates and Ultimatum was ass-awful. Just awful.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

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buckshot defunct
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56. "this is why it needs to be broken down in eras"
In response to Reply # 46
Fri Sep-04-09 12:40 PM by buckshot defunct

  

          

I would say that more than any other medium, comics have experienced the most exponential growth over the past 50 years or so. You read a novel, watch a movie, or hear a song from 1985, and it can still feel fresh and relevant. You read a comic from that time frame and it feels almost ancient.

I mean, to take an extreme case, where do we put Jerry Siegel? Not a great writer by any stretch, but the guy co-created Superman soooooo...

It's like you got your architects and your builders. The architects weren't really all that adept at the actual act of putting things together into any sort of structure, but they had the ideas and the basic framework down. And of course, some guys can do both.

I agree that Claremont is a complicated case, and I doubt I'd rate him very high personally, but I don't scoff at the idea of him coming up in this conversation.

Loeb on the other hand? FOH

-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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Invisiblist
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62. "that was Buck"
In response to Reply # 46


          

  

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mrhood75
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64. "I thought so. But I've creditted Buck before with stuff you've said"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

So I wanted to cover my bases.

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Invisiblist
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73. "Well that's a compliment, that is. "
In response to Reply # 64


          

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
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75. "^^ His words, not mine"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          



-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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bloocollar
Member since Aug 14th 2008
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Fri Sep-04-09 10:50 AM

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52. "You literally made me LOL"
In response to Reply # 39


          

Thank you, friend

  

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icecold21
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Fri Sep-04-09 11:32 PM

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87. "Okay, maybe I'm a little biased. Mutant Genesis was my shit"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

That's when I really started messing with X-Men books. I loved that era. His earlier stuff did have some weak dialogue, but that's the way that shit was at the time. Who would y'all say the best X-Men writer is then?

And as far as Loeb's concerned, Long Halloween and Dark Victory are amazing, as was Hush. Maybe Buck is right though, and Tim Sale and Jim Lee were the ones that made it happen. I don't know. I have read other Loeb stuff and it sucked.

_________________________________________

  

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shockzilla
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95. "long halloween is the best thing loeb ever did"
In response to Reply # 87


          

and makes for a much better batman: year two than the official mini

batman: year one was only four issues, though

and it was MUCH better.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Fri Sep-04-09 05:28 AM

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41. "Marv Wolfman on the llist?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Crisis plus teen titans?

  

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MrMajor
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79. "Overlooked and underated"
In response to Reply # 41


          

Definite pioneer, not where he'd rank though.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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80. "He deserves mjaor propers for pulling off the O.G. Crisis"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

And "The Judas Contract" was greatness. I'm not familiar with the rest of his work, so I don't know where I'd put him.

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www.albumism.com

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lonesome_d
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45. "In the post-Moore crop, I think Brubaker's gonna take it."
In response to Reply # 0


          

especially for the work with Phillips.

I haven't read much of his stuff from before his move to the majors, but man, what a string he's racked up since then:

-Catwoman
-Sleeper
-Criminal
-Incognito

add in great stuff on titles like Gotham Central, Daredevil, Scene of the Crime, Captain America, Dead Boy Detectives, Authority, Iron Fist...

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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buckshot defunct
Member since May 02nd 2003
26345 posts
Fri Sep-04-09 01:21 PM

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59. "Consistently awesome and Sleeper is one of the best comics ever"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          



-----------------------------
http://talestosuffice.com/
@kennykeil

  

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Big Chief Rumbletummy
Member since Jan 31st 2006
2005 posts
Fri Sep-04-09 02:24 PM

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67. "Brubaker FUCKED UP Daredevil"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          


not as bad as Lark, but the mans flushed the entirety of BMB's great work in the past year 1/2





Protest, yes, and I suggest you hide
Cause I'm comin...
hummin the song of redemption
Makin stacks, takin tax exemptions

  

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lonesome_d
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72. "generally speaking, I liked it, but I didn't read Bendis's run."
In response to Reply # 67


          

It was always a downer to read, though, and I'm definitely on the fence about where he left it.

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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Coatesvillain
Member since Aug 24th 2005
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91. "Brian K. Vaughan would like to have a word with you."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

I think his work is head and shoulder's above Brubaker's.

-------
"Andy justifies my hate."
http://www.twitter.com/coatesvillain
http://coates.tumblr.com

  

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jtree11
Member since Apr 10th 2006
170 posts
Fri Sep-04-09 09:51 AM

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48. "No Bendis in current discussion?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

His "independent" stuff was very good and has shown great imagination on some of his Marvel work. Wasn't a huge fan of his run on Daredevil but everything else I've enjoyed.

  

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KangolLove
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49. "yeah, people will be discussing Bendis..."
In response to Reply # 48


          

it's just that it will take about 20 more replies before anything actually happens.

__________________________________________

  

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KneelB4Me
Member since Apr 06th 2005
4473 posts
Fri Sep-04-09 11:23 AM

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54. "^^UNDERRATED REPLY^^"
In response to Reply # 49


          


"I halfway hope people put "btw, rappers lie and shit" on CD covers, like a parental advisory sticker." - OKP Villain

www.dreamertodesigner.com
www.twitter.com/lexlamont

  

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bshelly
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89. "FATALITY"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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JRennolds
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50. "Bendis, really lost points for me, with SECRET INVASION!"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

Worst event ever.

GOMD

  

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bloocollar
Member since Aug 14th 2008
18163 posts
Fri Sep-04-09 10:53 AM

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53. "Thank you, thank you....."
In response to Reply # 50


          

thank you

It started with such a good premise too

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Fri Sep-04-09 12:25 PM

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55. "As much (deserved) shit as I give Bendis, I'll say this:"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

1. I liked his run on Daredevil. A lot.

2. I liked the Alias series. A lot.

3. I like Powers. A lot.

4. I liked everything I read in Ultimate Spider-Man. A lot. (I stopped when it got to Ultimatum, however)

When Bendis actually "gets" characters, he's really good. He wrote a great teenage Spider-Man. In that series, it's okay that everyone talks like a teenage girl, 'cause a lot of the characters are teenage girls. His run on Daredevil was the best since Miller's. And Powers shows he has a great understanding of cops and robbers stories.

But he's got a lot of shit against him. Secret Invasion was an abomination and never should have happened in the first place. He Avengers titles all suck. And I'll say he really doesn't "get" 90% of the characters he ends up writing. So no top 10 for Bendis.

-----------------

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jadedeejay
Member since Sep 22nd 2006
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Fri Sep-04-09 02:26 PM

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69. "I'm actually surprised at how much of this I agree with. "
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>1. I liked his run on Daredevil. A lot.
>

I've gone on record saying that his run on Daredevil is the best it's been since Frank Miller was on the title, and probably the best mainstream work of Bendis' career. I stand by that.

>2. I liked the Alias series. A lot.
>

CO-FUCKING SIGN. This shit was criminally slept on. Plot, characterization, mood, story, were all top notch Bendis. It was everything that was good about the crime shit he was doing with Image at the time, combined with some of the ideas being touched on in Powers, only w/ the street level Marvel Universe as his background. I loved that shit. It's even better when read in conjunction w/ his Daredevil run.

>3. I like Powers. A lot.
>

There's been a mild decline in quality since it came under the Icon imprint, but I regard the first five or six volumes of Powers as easily some of the most awesomely EPIC comics to hit the stands in the past decade.

>4. I liked everything I read in Ultimate Spider-Man. A lot. (I
>stopped when it got to Ultimatum, however)
>

Agreed. And that's saying a LOT when you consider that Ultimate Spider-Man was consistently at the top of my reading pile despite how much I HATE - yes, HATE - Mark Bagley as an artist.

>When Bendis actually "gets" characters, he's really good. He
>wrote a great teenage Spider-Man. In that series, it's okay
>that everyone talks like a teenage girl, 'cause a lot of the
>characters are teenage girls.

Agreed, although I don't take issue w/ Bendis' dialogue the way a lot of you around here seem to.

His run on Daredevil was the
>best since Miller's.

See above.

And Powers shows he has a great
>understanding of cops and robbers stories.
>

True. But I also think the genius of Powers is in it's ability to be whatever kind of story that it needs to be. Powers is a cops & robbers story on the surface, but at various times during the run, stories have run the gamut from murder mystery to pop culture commentary, VH1 Behind The Music type documentarianism to political drama, "what if superman went apeshit" type stories (years before Irredeemable) to intergalactic sci-fi adventure. And everything in between. This - combined w/ the fact that it allows Bendis to write in an uncensored, unrestricted, and (most importantly) SELF CONTAINED format - is what makes Powers some of his best work.


>But he's got a lot of shit against him. Secret Invasion was an
>abomination and never should have happened in the first place.

Yeah, he lost a lotta points w/ me on that one. SI proved that Bendis doesn't have the chops to effectively write an exciting, well-paced, company-wide crossover. After Secret Invasion, I'm convinced that he's at his best when he's relegated to solo or small ensemble, self contained material.

>He Avengers titles all suck. And I'll say he really doesn't
>"get" 90% of the characters he ends up writing. So no top 10
>for Bendis.

This is the only thing I can't really co-sign on. I fux w/ New Avengers. It's not always great, and it tends to spend way too much time in set-up mode for whatever Marvel's next big event will be. But I think it's always compelling at the very least. And I appreciate the mixture of 2nd & 3rd tier characters like Luke Cage and Echo w/ icons like Spidey and Wolverine. Bendis' characterization of the latter two is one of the main things that keep me coming back.

Time will tell if he eventually makes it in my top 10 ever, but for his exceptional work on the stuff mentioned above, he's at least earned a spot on my list of top 10 of the last 10 years.


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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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83. "RE: I'm actually surprised at how much of this I agree with. "
In response to Reply # 69


  

          


>I've gone on record saying that his run on Daredevil is the
>best it's been since Frank Miller was on the title, and
>probably the best mainstream work of Bendis' career. I stand
>by that.

I actually might put Ultimate Spider-Man ahead of Daredevil. But not by much.


>CO-FUCKING SIGN. This shit was criminally slept on. Plot,
>characterization, mood, story, were all top notch Bendis. It
>was everything that was good about the crime shit he was doing
>with Image at the time, combined with some of the ideas being
>touched on in Powers, only w/ the street level Marvel Universe
>as his background. I loved that shit. It's even better when
>read in conjunction w/ his Daredevil run.

All that and Luke Cage fucking Jessica Jones in the ass. I also did like the lil' tie-ins to Dardevil.


>There's been a mild decline in quality since it came under the
>Icon imprint, but I regard the first five or six volumes of
>Powers as easily some of the most awesomely EPIC comics to hit
>the stands in the past decade.

I've been enjoying it since it shifted to Icon, though I prefered the straight up crime stories to his bigger "What does it mean to be a superhero?" stories. One of my main problems with Bendis is that he seems obsessed wtih adding artifical grandeur to everything he writes. More on that later.

>Agreed. And that's saying a LOT when you consider that
>Ultimate Spider-Man was consistently at the top of my reading
>pile despite how much I HATE - yes, HATE - Mark Bagley as an
>artist.

Who hates Bagley? His art looks polished enough, and gets his comics done quick as Hell. I approve.



>True. But I also think the genius of Powers is in it's ability
>to be whatever kind of story that it needs to be. Powers is a
>cops & robbers story on the surface, but at various times
>during the run, stories have run the gamut from murder mystery
>to pop culture commentary, VH1 Behind The Music type
>documentarianism to political drama, "what if superman went
>apeshit" type stories (years before Irredeemable) to
>intergalactic sci-fi adventure. And everything in between.
>This - combined w/ the fact that it allows Bendis to write in
>an uncensored, unrestricted, and (most importantly) SELF
>CONTAINED format - is what makes Powers some of his best work.

I agree, even though I have more aforementioned reservations about when he tries to tackle "big" issues. Plus, the origin of superheroes as monkeys? Walker fights the Devil? C'mon.


>Yeah, he lost a lotta points w/ me on that one. SI proved that
>Bendis doesn't have the chops to effectively write an
>exciting, well-paced, company-wide crossover. After Secret
>Invasion, I'm convinced that he's at his best when he's
>relegated to solo or small ensemble, self contained material.

Which is why I don't like him on the Avengers titles. I don't think he writes "center-piece of the universe stories" very well.

>This is the only thing I can't really co-sign on. I fux w/ New
>Avengers. It's not always great, and it tends to spend way too
>much time in set-up mode for whatever Marvel's next big event
>will be. But I think it's always compelling at the very least.
>And I appreciate the mixture of 2nd & 3rd tier characters like
>Luke Cage and Echo w/ icons like Spidey and Wolverine. Bendis'
>characterization of the latter two is one of the main things
>that keep me coming back.

I like a few of the initial New Avnegers arcs. And I liked the initial stuff about the rise of the Hood. But yes, it got waaaaay too bogged down in the cross-company events. And as a result, if you think about it, not a lot of stories with the first New Avengers line-up were even told.

See, but a huge issue I have with him comes from when he tries to "revive" unused characters. Sometimes it works: Luke Cage, for example, and sort of The Hood. A lot of the times it doesn't. He shoves these characters down our throats and then expects the readers to give a shit about them. "JESSICA DREW IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTERS IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE BECAUSE I SAY SO! WAIT, NOW IT'S CAROL DANVERS! NO, NOW IT'S JESSICA DREW AGAIN! YOU WILL LISTEN TO ME AND OBEY!" He never makes the characters earn their status, like say, Geoff Johns did with Black Adam and the Sinestro.

Add to the fact that has characterization of some of these characters is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY off. Marvel Boy is the most egreious example; The Hood is to a lesser degree. And don't make me start with Hawkeye/Ronin.

I actually stil lbelieve Bendis has the tools to be great, he just needs to aim lower, rather than higher, and focus his scope.

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buckshot defunct
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57. "No Bendis on my pull list, and no Bendis in my Top 10"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

Granted I haven't read Powers, and I've only read a handful of his Daredevil issues (which are probably the best things of his I've read)

But I tried Avengers, I tried Secret Invasion, I tried Jinx, etc. and I thought they all kinda blew to varying degrees. I don't get why he's so lauded for his dialogue either. Everyone sounds like they either stepped straight out of 'House of Games' or 'Gilmore Girls'

-----------------------------
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Invisiblist
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63. "Bendis is in my top 10. "
In response to Reply # 48


          

If you only take his DD and Ultimate Spidey runs, he's already a legend. He's done loads of dope stuff.

It's just his events that suck.

  

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Big Chief Rumbletummy
Member since Jan 31st 2006
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68. "I didn't see this when i replied, I swear"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          



And I don't understand how you guys hate his Avengers stuff. New Avengers is the shit and Dark Avengers 1-4 was as gripping as it gets.

  

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bshelly
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60. "better questions: do the GOATs get ass?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

as in, will being a renowned comics author pull you any kind of punani that you'd want? on one hand, they're famous and paid. on the other, comics. i look at grant morrison's wife and i have my doubts.

maybe the best way to address is to ask, buck, have you ever had bras thrown at you at Con?

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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buckshot defunct
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61. "I'm definitely not the right guy to ask"
In response to Reply # 60
Fri Sep-04-09 01:49 PM by buckshot defunct

  

          

>maybe the best way to address is to ask, buck, have you ever
>had bras thrown at you at Con?

This has been going on with me long before I got into making comics. It's actually the reason *why* I started making comics, as it was getting increasingly difficult to leave the house, and I needed something to help pass the time.

But yes, comic book groupies are a reality. However it takes a special kind of groupie and a special kind of writer. And by special kind of groupie I mean "librarians" and by special kind of writer I mean "Neil Gaiman"

-----------------------------
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FortifiedLive
Member since Dec 26th 2006
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71. "them bitches call him Cumshot Yacunt."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

_______________________________________

<<progressions.

  

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Invisiblist
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65. "here's an answer"
In response to Reply # 60


          

http://scottmccloud.com/1-webcomics/misc/notneil.jpg

  

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Big Chief Rumbletummy
Member since Jan 31st 2006
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66. "Brian Michael Bendis"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Daredevil Vol.2
Ultimate Spider-Man
New Avengers
Dark Avengers
Alias


I love this guy's work




Protest, yes, and I suggest you hide
Cause I'm comin...
hummin the song of redemption
Makin stacks, takin tax exemptions

  

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buckshot defunct
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74. "Brian K Vaughan"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not cranking them out like he used to (frequency I mean, not quality wise), but how can you deny:

Y the Last Man
Ex Machina
Pride of Baghdad
The Escapists

Where does he rank for you?

-----------------------------
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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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78. "Yeah, I was going to mention him when I got back from lunch"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

Not the most prolific writers these days (especially with him on "Lost" duties), but he's another clear example of quality over quantity. Other winners of his include:

- His close to 50-issue run on Runaways (he started the series). One of the best "tweener/teen" comics ever written.
- Dr. Strange: The Oath. Ya homie Marcos Martin's grand entrance to Marvel. Made Strange a really interesting chracter, rather than Deus Rx Machina.
- "The Hood" mini-series. Bendis has got The Hood's characterization all wrong.
- His Ultimate X-Men run
- single arcs or issues of Batman, Wonder Woman, and Midnighter

It's kinda amazing that he's said that he's less comfortable working with existing creations, because he's really, really good at it.

All that, combined with the stuff that Buck mentioned, make him a strong candidate for the Ton 10. Possibly **gulp** moreso than Brubaker. But don't hold me to that.

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Mr Teeth
Member since Jun 09th 2009
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81. "Y: The Last Man, was a brilliant comic book...enjoyed reading it."
In response to Reply # 74
Fri Sep-04-09 05:15 PM by Mr Teeth

          

.

  

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buckshot defunct
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76. "Found some GOAT lists online"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This might help a little. Pretty much all the same names keep popping up throughout

http://www.mania.com/top-20-comic-writers-all-time_article_115430.html
(Shells you should be able to use the photos included to deduce your own conclusion about the groupies question)


http://comics.ign.com/articles/646/646667p11.html
Bracket style...?

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=146270

http://www.mania.com/greatest-comic-writers-alltime_article_114792.html


-----------------------------
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lonesome_d
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77. "buck, if youo're going to break into that list, it's clear your chances"
In response to Reply # 76


          

increase if you do some combination of the following:

-grow some facial hair
or
-go bald, or at least cause your hairline to recede
or
-wear a hat

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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buckshot defunct
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85. "Don't forget tropical and/or character print shirt"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

I mean, for shit's sake, Len Wein looks like a goddamn crossover event:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/229/399825-126875-len-wein_large.jpg

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bshelly
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88. "well, those pictures made ME hot"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

i can only imagine the effects on the fangirls of the world.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Mr Teeth
Member since Jun 09th 2009
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82. "What do you guys think of Robert Crumb?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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mrhood75
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84. "I'm not familiar enough with his work, truth be told."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

I think I flipped through a copy of his "Frog Princess" book when I was like 9 or 10 when I was at a used bookstore (Clearly I was too young to be reading it). I've seen the Crumb documentary. But I don't know that much about his work as a whole.

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phenompyrus
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86. "For me, it comes down to the 3Ms..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Moore
Morrison
Millar

Claremont is there too, but his later output is just shit compared to the classic stuff.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
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Vector
Member since Jan 05th 2006
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90. "Stan Lee, motherfuckers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*smh*

  

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shockzilla
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92. "this post is yet ANOTHER example"
In response to Reply # 90


          

of why i don't take comic-related posts

from non-COTW regulars seriously.

  

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buckshot defunct
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96. "^^ Disgruntled Winick Fan"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          



-----------------------------
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@kennykeil

  

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shockzilla
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98. "lol, ouch!"
In response to Reply # 96


          

  

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buckshot defunct
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99. "Gotta give the man his props"
In response to Reply # 90
Sun Sep-06-09 02:39 PM by buckshot defunct

  

          

I think the stamp he put on superheroes was as significant a leap forward as Watchmen would be decades later. You want to talk about 'realism' in mainstream comics? It all starts with Stan Lee. Specifically Spider-Man, a character who changed the game forever.

And just look at all the creations he had a hand in. I'm not saying he created them solely by himself, but come on - a writer isn't gonna be involved with *that* many classic characters completely by accident. He may not have even 'written' half the stories he was credited for, who knows. But considering how batshit crazy some of the stuff Ditko and Kirby came up with by themselves it's clear to me that Stan was vital in giving the books a pop sensibility that allowed them to survive and thrive in the market.

And his whole writing aesthetic, and the personality he infused into everything he did, just created such an exciting atmosphere even when the stories that took place in said atmosphere weren't necessarily the best. And some of the stories were actually pretty damn good. Most of them are still being told today, just updated every few years or so for modern audiences.

I've noticed in some circles it's cool to diss Stan. I think some fans see it as a way of sticking up for creators who didn't get their due like Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko. But fuck that, there's plenty of props to go around. It's like when Beatles fans get into those heated ass John vs Paul debates. Some collaborations can't be broken down in terms of >>> or <<<. It's more like an alchemy than a team up.

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shockzilla
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100. "yes, he deserves a helluvalot of propers"
In response to Reply # 99


          

but he's not nearly number one.

i think, to be fair to all, we probably do need to break it down into eras

but if you look at what he's written since the 60s, none of it is much chop.

  

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buckshot defunct
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104. "No arguments here"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

Unless you break it down into eras it becomes a contest of "significance to the medium" vs "shit I actually enjoy reading", and I'm afraid the old farts are catching an L on that one

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buckshot defunct
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101. "Here's an oldie but GOATie... Gardner Fox"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm mostly familiar with his Silver Age DC work, but his credentials expand way beyond that. Anyway, this is the dude who came up with the idea of the DC Multiverse. Perhaps the biggest single idea ever to be introduced to comics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardner_Fox

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shockzilla
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102. "didn't he kick off the jla?"
In response to Reply # 101


          

  

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buckshot defunct
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103. "JSA *and* JLA!!!"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

It's crazy to me when you start researching comicbook history a little bit and pretty much everything you've ever read can be attributed to the same 5 or 6 dudes. Gardner Fox is one of them dudes.

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shockzilla
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105. "where would you rank garth ennis?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

preacher, hellblazer, hitman, punisher, his various war comics

all top-shelf stuff.

  

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