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Subject: "Spike Lee... the thorn in your side" This topic is locked.
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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
6189 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 05:14 PM

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"Spike Lee... the thorn in your side"


  

          

ppl either love him or hate him. they can't just judge his films on their own terms. either that or they accuse him of racism. and that's not just limited to white audiences, i've actually heard blacks call him racist too. it's truly amazing how ppl react to the guy's films, or maybe it's him himself. a black man with something to say = an angry black man.

lol. i find it amusing and fascinating at the same time. a lot of ppl expose their inner thoughts on race when it comes to spike. i mean, u'll see from the replies to this post itself.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
he IS racist... and an uneven filmmaker to boot.
Dec 29th 2006
1
does he offend u?
Dec 29th 2006
2
i'm offended when i pay good money to watch his films
Dec 29th 2006
3
      okay. cast ur opinions of HIM aside.
Dec 29th 2006
4
      sure... gimme a few hours
Dec 29th 2006
5
           if he's so mediocre it shouldnt be that hard.
Dec 29th 2006
6
                umm... when exactly did i SAY it was hard?
Dec 29th 2006
19
                     lol
Dec 29th 2006
22
                     calm down. argue ur case or take ur L graciously.
Dec 30th 2006
35
                          i don't think there's any L for me to take.
Dec 30th 2006
40
                               RE: i don't think there's any L for me to take.
Dec 30th 2006
43
      RE: i'm offended when i pay good money to watch his films
Jan 03rd 2007
90
      i guess that is why you are you and i am i, huh?
Jan 03rd 2007
92
      RE: i'm offended when i pay good money to watch his films
Jan 03rd 2007
91
I need an example of his racism in film?
Dec 29th 2006
8
um... if u accuse him of being a racist THROUGH his films then YES.
Dec 29th 2006
10
Uh..the poster down there is asking for an example
Dec 29th 2006
14
      LOL, they duckin' N weaving...
Dec 29th 2006
17
      like i said: this nigger follows me around!
Dec 29th 2006
20
           thought so.....!
Dec 29th 2006
26
                like i said: check my blog out
Dec 29th 2006
27
                     My thoughts exactly
Dec 29th 2006
29
                     i'm not averse to employing some healthy hyperbole to stimulate convo
Dec 30th 2006
30
                     check your blog??? fool check these nuts.....
Dec 30th 2006
31
                          you want me to make a post about Spike being a racist?
Dec 30th 2006
32
                               man, birth of a nation was crap
Jan 02nd 2007
51
                                    LOL now you're just talking crazy
Jan 02nd 2007
54
                                         dude, birth of a nation was ASS
Jan 02nd 2007
56
                                              let's see... DW Griffith introduced the following innovations:
Jan 02nd 2007
57
                                                   LOL you HAD to work in a Dexy's Midnight Runners reference, didn't you?
Jan 02nd 2007
59
                                                   would it have been an AFKAP post had i not?
Jan 02nd 2007
60
                                                   RE: let's see... DW Griffith introduced the following innovations:
Jan 02nd 2007
61
                                                        the problem here
Jan 02nd 2007
63
                                                             actually, no, i make a point to say aside from the racist content
Jan 02nd 2007
65
                                                                  yeah, i enjoyed the film
Jan 02nd 2007
66
                                                                       RE: yeah, i enjoyed the film
Jan 03rd 2007
69
                                                                            we're going in circles here
Jan 03rd 2007
71
                                                                                 you should've let it go 3 posts ago
Jan 06th 2007
102
off dtrt and malcolm x alone...
Dec 29th 2006
7
1. I don't believe Spike is racist. 2. I can judge his films on a
Dec 29th 2006
9
RE: 1. I don't believe Spike is racist. 2. I can judge his films on a
Dec 29th 2006
11
      many of his biggest apologists suffer from the same ignorance
Dec 29th 2006
21
           i agree
Dec 30th 2006
36
The thing I like about Spike is that he does sh*t on his own terms...
Dec 29th 2006
12
i agree wit everything except for...
Dec 29th 2006
13
i agree about crooklyn
Dec 31st 2006
47
co sine on everything........
Jan 06th 2007
103
he's that polarizing?
Dec 29th 2006
15
pick one
Dec 29th 2006
16
Sub question: if Spike and his films are racist (which I don't believe)....
Dec 29th 2006
18
well if he's supposed to be exposing how racism works
Dec 29th 2006
23
me, i don't even have a problem with Spike's supposed racism
Dec 29th 2006
24
      what exactly do you mean by this?
Dec 29th 2006
25
           real quick, because i don't feel like being in this post:
Dec 29th 2006
28
           oh please
Dec 30th 2006
37
                oh, i can put you on to something.
Dec 30th 2006
41
                     whatever man. if u HAD a valid point U would've made it already.
Dec 30th 2006
42
                          not in this post.
Dec 30th 2006
44
                               lol, yea go.
Dec 30th 2006
45
           If I can venture a guess . . .
Dec 31st 2006
48
                see, here's the thing about that:
Jan 02nd 2007
52
                     i ain't worrying about his messages if the medium sucks
Jan 02nd 2007
53
                          actually nah, that's not what i'm saying
Jan 02nd 2007
55
                               'solid to spectacular'
Jan 02nd 2007
58
                                    RE: 'solid to spectacular'
Jan 02nd 2007
62
                                         Spike certainly has great cinematography
Jan 02nd 2007
64
                                              the acting in summer of sam
Jan 02nd 2007
67
                                                   ummm... says who?
Jan 03rd 2007
68
                                                        RE: ummm... says who?
Jan 03rd 2007
70
                                                             *sigh* just forget it, fam.
Jan 03rd 2007
72
RE: Spike Lee... the thorn in your side
Dec 30th 2006
33
sorry if it came off that way. wasnt my intention but
Dec 30th 2006
38
When Spike is here next month I will ask him about his politics...
Dec 30th 2006
34
^^^ so on point
Dec 30th 2006
39
excellent
Jan 03rd 2007
75
      umm.... Langston Hughes wrote that, like, 80 years ago.
Jan 03rd 2007
76
           & so what? it holds true for this post
Jan 03rd 2007
77
                no, it doesn't... America was a different place in 1926
Jan 03rd 2007
78
                     ^^^^^was alive in 1926
Jan 03rd 2007
79
                     yes, 'negro' = 'ghetto'
Jan 03rd 2007
81
                          no.it.does.not.
Jan 03rd 2007
82
                          prove it.
Jan 03rd 2007
84
                               RE: prove it.
Jan 03rd 2007
85
                                    uh-huh. i see.
Jan 03rd 2007
87
                          nooooooooooooooooo(c) Wesley Snipes
Jan 03rd 2007
95
                     Will Smith is a Black actor
Jan 03rd 2007
83
                          Will Smith is not a 'Black actor.' Duane Martin is a 'Black actor.'
Jan 03rd 2007
86
                               Shame on you
Jan 03rd 2007
88
                                    LOL
Jan 03rd 2007
89
                                         primarily, secondarily, tenthdarily
Jan 03rd 2007
93
                                         it 'plays in' to the art... don't mean it has to DEFINE it.
Jan 03rd 2007
94
                                         RE: LOL
Jan 05th 2007
99
                                              RE: Stepin Fetchit
Jan 06th 2007
106
Spike doesn't make ENOUGH movies imo...
Dec 30th 2006
46
RE: Spike Lee... the thorn in your side
Jan 02nd 2007
49
RE: without typos
Jan 02nd 2007
50
one of the few genius filmmakers left on this uninhabitable earth
Jan 03rd 2007
73
RE: one of the few genius filmmakers left on this uninhabitable earth
Jan 03rd 2007
74
Mission Accomplished!
Jan 03rd 2007
80
Charles Burnett says more about race and sex than Spike
Jan 03rd 2007
96
i haven't seen that but i WILL say this
Jan 05th 2007
97
and there it is
Jan 06th 2007
100
the shoe doesn't fit.
Jan 06th 2007
105
Charles Burnett didn't do One False Move
Jan 05th 2007
98
my bad... i was talking about Carl Franklin, not Charles Burnett
Jan 06th 2007
104
the joint with cynda williams?
Jan 06th 2007
101

AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Fri Dec-29-06 05:35 PM

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1. "he IS racist... and an uneven filmmaker to boot."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
6189 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 05:41 PM

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2. "does he offend u?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          


Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Fri Dec-29-06 05:42 PM

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3. "i'm offended when i pay good money to watch his films"
In response to Reply # 2
Fri Dec-29-06 05:50 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

other than that... umm, not really.

more than anything, he kinda saddens me.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
6189 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 05:45 PM

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4. "okay. cast ur opinions of HIM aside."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

what is it about his films that u don't like? u consider him racist, fine. but that's opinion. cite an example. one that can be easily understood because when u call someone a racist that's some serious shit. g. w. griffith was racist. would u put spike in the same box? cite an example. a good one.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Fri Dec-29-06 05:50 PM

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5. "sure... gimme a few hours"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

i got some errands to run but i'll be back

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
6189 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 05:52 PM

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6. "if he's so mediocre it shouldnt be that hard."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

but i'll give u the benefit of the doubt. we'll see in a few hours.

any other takers?

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Fri Dec-29-06 10:41 PM

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19. "umm... when exactly did i SAY it was hard?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

I SAID I HAD SOME ERRANDS TO RUN, MOTHERFUCKER

AS IN: I HAVE A LIFE OUTSIDE OF THE BOARDS THAT I OCCASIONALLY HAVE TO ATTEND TO



fuck it... i don't even feel like participating in this discussion now.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 10:59 PM

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22. "lol"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

>I SAID I HAD SOME ERRANDS TO RUN, MOTHERFUCKER
>
>AS IN: I HAVE A LIFE OUTSIDE OF THE BOARDS THAT I OCCASIONALLY
>HAVE TO ATTEND TO
>
>
>
>fuck it... i don't even feel like participating in this
>discussion now.

<--- we've got bush!

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
6189 posts
Sat Dec-30-06 10:21 AM

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35. "calm down. argue ur case or take ur L graciously."
In response to Reply # 19
Sat Dec-30-06 10:24 AM by Majik43

  

          

i didnt know u get rilled up so easily. see what coolidge is talking bout now.

<--- chyeah.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Sat Dec-30-06 10:55 AM

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40. "i don't think there's any L for me to take."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

i came to this post only because YOU personally invited me.

when i arrived, i found the post to be sketchy and ill-conceived, but cool... i was game to play.

i logged off for a few hours, came back and found that not only was this post some inflammatory and shallow bait shit, but on top of that you went out of your way to disrespect me.

so no... i won't be arguing my case here, though i WILL do it elsewhere. probably in another post.

if you consider that an L for me, *shrug* fine... i'll accept that.

but you need to look at our original post... ask yourself whether it contains any real substance. ask yourself if it asks any real questions. ask yourself whether it's an actual attempt to spark dialogue or just a thin excuse to ignite flames.

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
6189 posts
Sat Dec-30-06 11:10 AM

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43. "RE: i don't think there's any L for me to take."
In response to Reply # 40
Sat Dec-30-06 11:20 AM by Majik43

  

          

i did this post on a whim, and right after i saw the james brown biopic in the Lesson, and that was the ONLY reason i invited U here. because i thought u might make it interesting. Instead U've gotten very hoitty toitty about the whole affair. I'm not easily offended but if someone calls me "motherfucker" with the all sincerity that U did then I see it fit to respond on the same level.

and as for "saving my post", lighten the fuck up. like i said, if u had a point to make (which was as strong as u made it out to be) U WOULD'VE MADE IT. instead of fumbling around as if ur opinion is the second coming.

<--- chyeah.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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REEL_RAHIM
Member since Oct 15th 2006
7 posts
Wed Jan-03-07 01:23 PM

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90. "RE: i'm offended when i pay good money to watch his films"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>other than that... umm, not really.
>
>more than anything, he kinda saddens me.

Why would you pay good money to see a movie by someone that you feel is a racist. I would never pay to see a movie by someone who's views would be so apparent in the story that it would offend me.

"Tuff Break nigga" D.Chappelle

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Wed Jan-03-07 01:39 PM

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92. "i guess that is why you are you and i am i, huh?"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

>I would never pay to see a movie by
>someone who's views would be so apparent in the story that it
>would offend me.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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REEL_RAHIM
Member since Oct 15th 2006
7 posts
Wed Jan-03-07 01:30 PM

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91. "RE: i'm offended when i pay good money to watch his films"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>other than that... umm, not really.
>
>more than anything, he kinda saddens me.

Why would you pay good money to see a movie by someone that you feel is a racist. I would never pay to see a movie by someone who's views would be so apparent in the story that it would offend me.

"Tuff Break nigga" D.Chappelle

  

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BISON CLASS of 97
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Fri Dec-29-06 06:10 PM

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8. "I need an example of his racism in film?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

"I'm one of the world's great survivors. I'll always survive because I've got the right combination of wit, grit and bullshit."

© Don King

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
6189 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 06:20 PM

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10. "um... if u accuse him of being a racist THROUGH his films then YES."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

U DO. If U say he's a racist in real life (cite an example) If U can do it without sounding like a hypocrit.

lol. why hasn't anyone done it yet. it really shouldnt be that hard, should it?

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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Warren Coolidge
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Fri Dec-29-06 08:25 PM

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14. "Uh..the poster down there is asking for an example"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

of his racism.....

you want to address that?

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
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Fri Dec-29-06 09:20 PM

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17. "LOL, they duckin' N weaving..."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Hard!

<--- chyeah.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Fri Dec-29-06 10:44 PM

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20. "like i said: this nigger follows me around!"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

sheeeit... you on that stalker shit


anyway, i'm feeling a bit touchy this evening and Majik done already pissed me off. i don't feel like taking part in this post anymore

i will probably write an post some thoughts on Spike on my blog this weekend if i get a chance, though. look out for it over the next couple of days.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Warren Coolidge
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41998 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 11:18 PM

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26. "thought so.....!"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

this is your M.O. you don't back up what the fuck you say....I told you in that other post...and I'm pointing it out to you here again......

all that shit your bitch ass talked about supporting your arguments..and then again...as you've done for years...you cannot support your arguements...plain and simple.

thanks for proving my point.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Fri Dec-29-06 11:34 PM

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27. "like i said: check my blog out"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

i will lay my arguments out at length and support them to the max, and you can respond to them in the comments section, if you please

i will NOT, however, take part in the discussion in this particular post because i don't feel like Majik (who is my peoples in more ways than one) really intended to make this a serious, objective discussion.

essentially, this is little more than a thinly veiled bait post, and i don't feel like indulging in it because i can already see that it's heading in a somewhat ugly direction.

so yes... i will excuse myself.

but if you feel like discussing this matter in a more enlightened and open-minded manner, i'm always available. just let me know.

hell, make a better post than this one tonight and i'll be there.

that is all.

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
43582 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 11:45 PM

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29. "My thoughts exactly"
In response to Reply # 27
Fri Dec-29-06 11:46 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

>essentially, this is little more than a thinly veiled bait
>post

Though you did set yourself up by saying that he was racist...
______________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. Tristram Shandy

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Sat Dec-30-06 12:33 AM

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30. "i'm not averse to employing some healthy hyperbole to stimulate convo"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          


>Though you did set yourself up by saying that he was

do i think Spike Lee is a hardcore racist?

no, i don't. and personally, i'm not really that interested in whatever his personal philosophies might be outside of his movies.

but he DOES frequently traffic in somewhat troubling racial stereotypes and attitudes in his movies.

THAT, i believe is a subject worth exploring, but that rarely happens in posts like this because the Spike apologists are always quick to label any dissenter a racist, a hater or someone "who likes your movies to be spoonfed to them"

_____________________

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Warren Coolidge
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41998 posts
Sat Dec-30-06 12:37 AM

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31. "check your blog??? fool check these nuts....."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>i will lay my arguments out at length and support them to the
>max, and you can respond to them in the comments section, if
>you please


tha fuk I look like checking YOUR blog...lolol..

that's funny...



>
>i will NOT, however, take part in the discussion in this
>particular post because i don't feel like Majik (who is my
>peoples in more ways than one) really intended to make this a
>serious, objective discussion.

man...get off that Diana Ross shit and man up...

There isn't anyone that I would call a racist that I would not be able to give a concise explanation as to why I feel that way about them......

You said Spike Lee is a Racist...the other poster asked you for examples....you won't give any. This is Afkap on Okayplayer...this entire exchange is what you've been doing for years....

You are simply full of shit....

you know...calling Spike Lee a racist (I'm assuming racist meaning against White people) ....

Spike Lee a racist??

speak on it...support your opinion...




>
>essentially, this is little more than a thinly veiled bait
>post, and i don't feel like indulging in it because i can
>already see that it's heading in a somewhat ugly direction.



in other words...you can't support your opinion....


>
>so yes... i will excuse myself.
>
>but if you feel like discussing this matter in a more
>enlightened and open-minded manner, i'm always available. just
>let me know.


discuss the shit now.....

again..this is you dog...you're a fake....a phoney....you try and front on this site like you're some worldy motherfucker with all these out of the norm views.......but when someone challenges you...you back the fuck down..just like you're doing here, hoping that insulting that person will provide you cover....


Spike Lee is a racist.....

speak on it...


>
>hell, make a better post than this one tonight and i'll be
>there.
>
>that is all.

why don't YOU make a post about Spike Lee being a racist...

you can't...

rather than cop all these pleas...just admit you were talking out of your ass...again....

honestly...you're probably hating on Spike Lee because he's a Black man doing what you can't seem to figure out how to do....

so you hate...

that's just my guess...but I've seen you're type before...Niggas is so mad they ain't got it on like another man..so they hate for hate sakes.....You've always struck me as a dude in that tradition..

try and work through that shit in 2007 player....

don't hate....

appreciate...

participate...

lololol...

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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32. "you want me to make a post about Spike being a racist?"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

why?

i mean, i could easily discuss that, but (as i said in a post somewhere below) that is extremely uninteresting to me.

i'm more inclined to discuss the chronic weakness of his third acts, his stereotyped characters (especially women), stilted acting, tendency to tell rather than show (and sometimes, bafflingly, to tell and THEN show)

that's what i wanted to talk about in this post, really.

does Spike Lee present a lot of racist imagery and ideas in his films? sure he does!

but i'm really not gonna waste my time making a post about it, because that is really the LEAST of the problems i have with him.

like, Birth of a Nation is a racist movie, but i still got mad respect for DW Griffith because at least it is a GOOD movie.

if Spike was making more of what i think of as good movies, i could give a damn if he was racist or not.

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Tue Jan-02-07 08:32 PM

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51. "man, birth of a nation was crap"
In response to Reply # 32


          

aside from the racist bullshit in it...it was too long and overly melodramatic. Battleship Potemkin, metropolis and M shit all over all of griffith's shit, easy.

But ain't no way you can be puttin spike and griffith in the same category. Spike is a much much MUCH better filmmaker, and is way more challenging to boot.

Throw the cracker-ass shit that griffin does in his films on TOP of all that, and your opinion on this one is a lil (okay, a LOT) off to me.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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54. "LOL now you're just talking crazy"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Tue Jan-02-07 09:13 PM

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56. "dude, birth of a nation was ASS"
In response to Reply # 54


          

and RACIST as fuck. But more importantly, it was ASS.
I can watch M anytime, same with metropolis. Those films were about something. Birth of nation was "Niggers Are BAD!, the motion picture".


  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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57. "let's see... DW Griffith introduced the following innovations:"
In response to Reply # 56
Tue Jan-02-07 09:26 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

-crosscutting
-expressive lighting
-the closeup
-camera movement
-extended narrative

basically, he laid the foundation of what we understand to be cinematic language today. and most of this happened in Birth of a Nation.

let's see... what innovations has your boy Spike brought forth in the past 20 years? apart from that "trademark" walking dolly shot which can be seen in this 1985 Dexy's Midnight Runners video, that is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-avJdGnHe0

hell, in two decades he's barely even figured out how to write a THIRD ACT

and it's pretty disingenuous of you to be knocking Birth of a Nation for being "too long" and "overmelodramatic" btw... the movie came out in 1915, for godsakes! what standards are you judging it by?

(meanwhile, let's not even get into the fact that She Hate Me and Bamboozled are too long and overmelodramatic by the standards of TODAY... as are most of Blanchard's scores)

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Jan-02-07 09:34 PM

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59. "LOL you HAD to work in a Dexy's Midnight Runners reference, didn't you?"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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60. "would it have been an AFKAP post had i not?"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Tue Jan-02-07 10:13 PM

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61. "RE: let's see... DW Griffith introduced the following innovations:"
In response to Reply # 57


          

A film can be innovative and still be ass. Fuck, McG did some interesting shit with Charlie's Angels, but that was some bullshit.

ASIDE from the racist bullshit in Birth (and that's a BIG aside), the film is boring and overlong...shit's like what, 3 1/2 hours? About how the Klan was good? GET THEEEEEE FUCK OUTTA HERE WITH THAT SHIT! The plot could maybe support 2 hours of runtime. Take alla that shit that griffith innovated and look what fritz lang or eisenstein did with it, and just compare the quality of the finished products.

Spike makes better movies, that are imminently more watchable. They are way more concise statements, or questions, with much better storytelling, acting, dialogue/scripts and editing. And I ain't even gona mention the cinematography of spike's shit, which is usually off the damn chain. Hell, peep the mise en secene in, say, Bamboozled. Some of those shots are ridiculously layered, AND beautiful.

I swear sometimes you just be sayin shit to just be different, lol.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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63. "the problem here"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

is that despite your attempts to make it appear otherwise, the MAJORITY of your criticism of Birth of a Nation really centers around the racist content of the film. which is COMPLETELY beside the point here.

and your comnparison of Griffith with Lang and Eisenstein is a bunch of bullhockey, too... we're talking about a guy who basically invented movies as we know them, and you want to put him down by comparing him disfavorably with movies that came out 10 to 15 years later and that BUILT off of his innovations?

i suppose you're one of those people who argues that Jay-Z is better than Rakim too, huh?

and then you're gonna compare that to Spike Lee's films without making any kind of contextual adjustment whatsoever? that's just ridiculous.


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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Tue Jan-02-07 11:43 PM

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65. "actually, no, i make a point to say aside from the racist content"
In response to Reply # 63


          

Birth of a nation is overblown and boring. ASIDE from being hateful racist bullshit, it's BORING. I'm certain Griffith's Klan preachiness probably made him blind to the lack of story in birth, and shitty vaudevillian acting, and unevenness in the pacing of the film (don't EVEN try and front like MOST of birth was even REMOTELY interesting, ASIDE from technique), but i don't give a fuck about his motives; he coulda made a better movie.

Now, you just wanna ride for the film cuz a LOT of folks feel it's prolly the most important american film ever. I'd even agree that it's awfully important, but is a BAD FILM.

I compare Birth to other films that are BETTER. A film being innovative don't mean it's good. A scanner darkly was innovative, so was Cool World, and so was all the works of russ meyer. None of them shits was good. Birth wasn't a good film.

Seriously, aside from technical innovation, you can honestly say you were drawn into the world of the film, cared about the characters, and enjoyed the film?

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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66. "yeah, i enjoyed the film"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

and even cared about the characters a bit

of course, being a "conscious" Black man, it's hard for me to completely allow myself to be absorbed into the world of a film that is essentially propaganda against my genus of humanity, but it was nonethless captivating

and i'm sorry... you're still employing a very dishonest style of argument here. you keep saying "apart from the racist bullshit.." but even in the process of saying that, you draw more attention to it.

and you are still comparing Birth of a Nation to films that came out 15 years after it. why not compare it to its contemporaries? "shitty vaudevillian acting"? please... show me what other films in 1915 did NOT have a similar acting style.

basically, what you are doing is penalizing the film for coming out when it did... fo rbeing a pioneer... and comparing it to films that are as good as they are only because they stand on its shoulders.

again, it's like the people who argue that Jay-Z is better than Rakim.


and by the way, i like Russ Meyer's films.

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Wed Jan-03-07 12:15 AM

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69. "RE: yeah, i enjoyed the film"
In response to Reply # 66


          

>and even cared about the characters a bit

Well, you just need jesus then, lol

>
>and i'm sorry... you're still employing a very dishonest style
>of argument here. you keep saying "apart from the racist
>bullshit.." but even in the process of saying that, you draw
>more attention to it.

No, you just choose to focus on it, cuz you haven't been able to really address any of my points of criticism of the film, and that's cool
>
>and you are still comparing Birth of a Nation to films that
>came out 15 years after it. why not compare it to its
>contemporaries? "shitty vaudevillian acting"? please... show
>me what other films in 1915 did NOT have a similar acting
>style.

Part of the reason why is Birth is pretty much the first full-length epic. Again, it's innovative, but not GOOD.

>
>basically, what you are doing is penalizing the film for
>coming out when it did... fo rbeing a pioneer... and comparing
>it to films that are as good as they are only because they
>stand on its shoulders.

You could make it about that, if you want, but you're rewarding a film for being innovative despite the fact that the narrative is non-existent in the middle 90 minutes, and the pacing is off, and the characters are stilted...yes, it's a BIG film, but it's not a good film.
>
>again, it's like the people who argue that Jay-Z is better
>than Rakim.

What the hell you talkin' bout, willis? Fuck Jay-z. Rakim eats his ass alive. A more accurate analogy for my position is Andre 3000 (spike) vs Dolemite (griffith). Yeah dolemite came first, and was one of the earliest recorded cats to rhyme on the mic, but can you listen to petey wheatstraw more than once or twice? No, most humans who love their souls can't, cuz he ain't good
>
>
>and by the way, i like Russ Meyer's films.


Of course you do, AFKAP, of course you do.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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71. "we're going in circles here"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

and i'm getting tired.

i have to admit that i kinda resent your assertion that i'm not addressing your points of criticism when i have done so over and over again, though you choose to ignore it.

the point is that art is neither created nor consumed in a vacuum... from the Lesson you probably know that i usually won't even waste my time arguing with people who try to divorce art from its context.

is Birth of a Nation the most refined and polished movie by the standards that we have cultivated over the past 90 years?

no.

but it's kinda reetarded to expect it to be, don't you think?

following the kind of logic you're using, we should say "The Wright Brothers? they weren't shit... yeah, they were innovators, but their plane only stayed in the air for what? twelve seconds or something? these days, planes be staying in the air for 12 hours and you want me to give them props for twelve seconds? bullshit! they were innovators, but their plane sucked!"

see how ridiculous that is?

compare Birth of a Nation to what came out before it and what was out at the same time and it becomes evident that it is a remarkable artistic achievement, however morally repugnant it might be.

until you can honestly do that, i'm really wasting my time here.

and i've TRIED to be fair... if i wanted to pick something like, say, She's Gotta Have It to pieces, i could. but i give it the benefit of the doubt based on the cultural context of 1986.

but if you wanna be that way, i can easily evaluate ALL Spike's films based on the standards of 2007...

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mc_delta_t
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102. "you should've let it go 3 posts ago"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

it's obvious dude has NO idea what he's talking about

  

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estipi
Member since Oct 24th 2005
2009 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 06:04 PM

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7. "off dtrt and malcolm x alone..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

best director all time, IMO (stress the IMO)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
those who make peaceful revolution impossible only make violent revolution inevitable-MLK

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Fri Dec-29-06 06:17 PM

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9. "1. I don't believe Spike is racist. 2. I can judge his films on a"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-29-06 06:30 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

case-by-case basis. Some are great, some are shitty. It's not that hard. 3. Just because you don't like certain films of his doesn't mean you "don't like" Spike Lee personally. To suggest otherwise is pretty much absurd.

Which leads us to this post...
_______________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. Tristram Shandy

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
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Fri Dec-29-06 06:34 PM

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11. "RE: 1. I don't believe Spike is racist. 2. I can judge his films on a"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>case-by-case basis.

which is how everyone should judge every film by every director. ideal but hey.

>Some are great, some are shitty.

some are great, i haven't seen a shitty one though. sorry i'm just being honest. i'd say some didnt hit the mark, but they were very entertaining nonetheless (school daze, girl 6, she hate me, inside man).

>It's
>not that hard.

the ppl replying in this thread would have u believe it was impossible.

>3. Just because you don't like certain films
>of his doesn't mean you "don't like" Spike Lee personally.

never said that. are u implyimg that i did? if so, i think u should glance over the post again. but u may be just pointing it out. if that's the case, then yea i fully agree. unfortunately with spike's critics that's usually the case.

>To
>suggest otherwise is pretty much absurd.

i wish it was. but yea i try to keep an open mind.

the problem with most of spike's critics is that they're either of the ignorant kind (i.e. fuck this nigga, we should've never let him make movies. he's a racist prick. look at do the right thing, he wants a race war!!!! blaaaaaaaahhhhhh.) or they're of the super-liberal kind (e.i. why does he always have to talk about race, OMG.. he's so angry all the time, i'm white and I'M not racist, why does he always have to make it such a big issue!! blaaaaaaaaaahhhhh)

those are the most frequent types of responses u get to spike lee. EVEN from noted critics which really surprises me because it says a lot more about them and america too than it does about him.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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Mynoriti
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Fri Dec-29-06 10:56 PM

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21. "many of his biggest apologists suffer from the same ignorance"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

Folks that stay on the defensive as if Spike is above critisism. You see this shit around here all the time... you can like 95% of his work, but say ONE bad thing about ONE of his movies, and folks jump on you for being a hater, or assume you're racist, ignorant, or bring up some popular white director who had nothing to do with the conversation and start pointing out all their shitty movies. It's one thing to say he's unfairly judged and scrutinized (I believe he is at times). It's another to be completely blind.

I think he's a great director, and like other great directors, he has his share of weaknesses, and he's dropped a couple lemons. But he aint above being called on his shit.


>the problem with most of spike's critics is that they're
>either of the ignorant kind (i.e. fuck this nigga, we
>should've never let him make movies. he's a racist prick. look
>at do the right thing, he wants a race war!!!!
>blaaaaaaaahhhhhh.) or they're of the super-liberal kind (e.i.
>why does he always have to talk about race, OMG.. he's so
>angry all the time, i'm white and I'M not racist, why does he
>always have to make it such a big issue!! blaaaaaaaaaahhhhh)
>
>those are the most frequent types of responses u get to spike
>lee. EVEN from noted critics which really surprises me because
>it says a lot more about them and america too than it does
>about him.

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
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Sat Dec-30-06 10:23 AM

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36. "i agree"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

and btw, klarwein was a genius


<--- chyeah.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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jambone
Member since Aug 08th 2005
24803 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 06:56 PM

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12. "The thing I like about Spike is that he does sh*t on his own terms..."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Dec-29-06 06:58 PM by jambone

  

          

...and he is comfortable with who he is as a person.

He just had his so-called "blockbuster" movie last year after all these years, and that didn't really make big, big money.

I love just about all of his movies. (except for Crooklyn which I cannot stand till this day).

I think Spike is one of the best directors out there.

Far better than Tarantino could dream of. And I am a big fan of Tarantino.

I could do without his didactic moments in his films at times, but I enjoy the viewing experiencing of a "spike lee joint". Its a unique viewing experience. I like the extra/unecessary sh*t for stylistic points in his movies.

I think the hate Spike gets is from the media, because his peers and actors in the industry have a great deal of respect for him.

"Malcolm X", and "Do the Right Thing" were masterpieces.

And his two documentaries w/ "4 little Girls" and "when the levee's broke" were EXCELLENT.

<--- we've got bush!

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
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Fri Dec-29-06 07:06 PM

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13. "i agree wit everything except for..."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          


>I love just about all of his movies. (except for Crooklyn
>which I cannot stand till this day).

but then again i havent seen it in damn near a decade. my view of it may change but i do remember liking, no LOVING the photography, and the whole way the time period was filmed, and the music too.

but seriously ppl should think about WHY they dislike the man before opening their mouths. a lot of the time, they end up showing how insecure they are about matters of race.

AND THAT'S NOT EVEN WHAT MOST OF HIS FILMS ARE ABOUT HALF THE TIME.

btw, He Got Game is also a masterpiece. Ppl will wake up one day.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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Zion3Lion
Member since Dec 23rd 2002
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Sun Dec-31-06 01:32 AM

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47. "i agree about crooklyn"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          


>I love just about all of his movies. (except for Crooklyn
>which I cannot stand till this day).
>

one of his worst movies!

  

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mc_delta_t
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103. "co sine on everything........"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

except personally I'd replace "Crooklyn" with "She Hate Me"

  

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
18637 posts
Fri Dec-29-06 09:05 PM

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15. "he's that polarizing?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i've not seen all of his films
i liked all the ones i have seen
i'm not sure i understand Do the Right Thing fully, or that it fully makes sense

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
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Fri Dec-29-06 09:10 PM

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16. "pick one"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000490/board/nest/61902408
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000490/board/nest/62105359
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000490/board/nest/62237327

<--- chyeah.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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Mynoriti
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18. "Sub question: if Spike and his films are racist (which I don't believe)...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

should his films be judged on that? does it lessen them?

considering one of the most respected/influential films in history is a KKK propaganda film?

  

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The Damaja
Member since Aug 02nd 2003
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Fri Dec-29-06 11:00 PM

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23. "well if he's supposed to be exposing how racism works"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

but ends up being racist anyway, that would be a problem wouldn't it?

--------------------
Why do you choose to mimic these wack MCs?
Why do you choose to listen to R&B?

"There are obviously many things which we do not understand, and may never be able to." Leela

*puts emceeing in a box*

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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24. "me, i don't even have a problem with Spike's supposed racism"
In response to Reply # 18
Fri Dec-29-06 11:08 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

i'm fine with it, in fact... i think he does express quite a bit of racism in his films, but i don't necessarily place a value judgment upon it. if that's what he's got on his mind, great!

my issue with him remains the "unevenness" and heavy-handedness of most of his films and what i perceive as a distinct lack of respect - sometimes even bordering on contempt - of his audience.

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Mynoriti
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25. "what exactly do you mean by this?"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

can you hook up some examples?

(please don't yell at me about the errands you have to run it's just a question lol)

>and what i perceive as a
>distinct lack of respect - sometimes even bordering on
>contempt - of his audience.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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28. "real quick, because i don't feel like being in this post:"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

discounting a film like Clockers, into which he shot blatant contempt for the audience that was at the time considered his key demog, i always get the sense that Spike really doesn't respect the audience's intelligence.

it might be unfair for me to demonstrate this with one of his worst films, Bamboozled, but i'll use it since, for reasons i'll never fully understand, a lot of people actually like that film.

right from the very beginning, Spike condescends to the audience, plastering the definition of "satire" on the screen as if he doesn't expect the people in the audience to be sharp enough to detect it on their own - or maybe he's trying to remind himself of the defintion because the alleged "satire" in that film is ham-fisted, witless, unoriginal and cowardly.

that's the thing i can't completely tell about Spike... does he do the heavy-handedness thing because he's dumbing down to an audience that he thinks is not that smart, or because he's just not competent enough to direct with a lighter touch?

it really puzzles and bothers me. because Spike WAS a major hero of mine for a long time... but i can't in good conscience continue to defend a lot of his work.

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
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Sat Dec-30-06 10:35 AM

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37. "oh please"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>right from the very beginning, Spike condescends to the
>audience, plastering the definition of "satire" on the screen
>as if he doesn't expect the people in the audience to be sharp
>enough to detect it on their own - or maybe he's trying to
>remind himself of the defintion because the alleged "satire"
>in that film is ham-fisted, witless, unoriginal and cowardly.
>
>that's the thing i can't completely tell about Spike... does
>he do the heavy-handedness thing because he's dumbing down to
>an audience that he thinks is not that smart, or because he's
>just not competent enough to direct with a lighter touch?
>
>it really puzzles and bothers me. because Spike WAS a major
>hero of mine for a long time... but i can't in good conscience
>continue to defend a lot of his work.

u gotta come wit something better than that man. and to think i thought u may actually put me on to something. he aint a perfect director and yes, ppl are often all the way FOR HIM, or AGAINST HIM. so i expected u to at least come wit something wit some all round credibility.

if anything ur being condescending towards spike's audience by suggesting that they would be too slow to spot such condescending material (IF IT'S THAT STRONG). are u telling me that the majority black of his audience continue to support him anyway even though he treats them as second rate? You really gotta come better than that.

<--- chyeah.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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41. "oh, i can put you on to something."
In response to Reply # 37
Sat Dec-30-06 11:00 AM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

but as i said: not in this post.

and if i DID, would you listen anyway?


(some might see fit to point out the irony of the fact that i am still posting here despite saying i was leaving.

i just hung around to wait for Majik - who lives in a different time zone than me - to return so that i could at least record his reaction to my outrage and perhaps his defense of the post. i did call him a motherfucker, after all)


anyway, Majik... while i'm here, let's try to save this post.

what questions do you have for me specifically?

what exactly are you trying to hear?

i mentioned that Spike condescends to his audience and you're like "oh please" like it's not a valid or important observation.

or would you rather talk about whether or not he's a racist?

i could do that, but it's really terribly boring.

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Majik43
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42. "whatever man. if u HAD a valid point U would've made it already."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          


<--- chyeah.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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44. "not in this post."
In response to Reply # 42
Sat Dec-30-06 11:20 AM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

you didn't bring much to the table when you made this post "on a whim" and i think that it's a portent as to what is probably to come in this post.

so yeah, now that we've had this exchange, i'll take my leave.

EDIT: actually, one more thing... if you made the post based on the stuff we were saying in the James Brown biopic post, why exactly did you choose to base it on all this racist shit when the discussion was about some of his deficiencies as a director?

(notice that i tried to shift the emphasis back to that by mentioning the "uneven filmmaker" thing right off the bat)

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Majik43
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45. "lol, yea go."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          


<--- chyeah.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Sun Dec-31-06 03:57 AM

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48. "If I can venture a guess . . ."
In response to Reply # 25


          

Not that I necessarily agree or disagree or know what the hell is going on in this post, but as AFKAP referenced Clockers first and its "contempt for the audience that was at the time considered his key demog.", I can only imagine he means the contempt for the young, black male audience, i.e. the rap music crowd.

You can see these digs in Clockers from the opening conversation about 2Pac and street cred, where the overabundance of slang and the tone of the entire conversation even borders on satire. Then you could also say Fredo Starr's very casting and the role he plays is indicative of the generally myopic representation of Hip-Hop that Lee exhibits at times. The fake music video / malt liquor (??) ad later can be seen as a more blatant statement of this kind.

So I'd just imagine that Spike Lee, having once turned young, independent black film on its ear with She's Gotta Have It, into the Oscars with Do The Right Thing, and as some kind of movement with Malcolm X, with Clockers now was lampooning the very same set he was thought to originally energize.

If I can take a guess . . .

(But then what about the use of Crooklyn Dodgers or KRS later on . . . I know . . .)

If I were to take a position, it's that no matter if the character is black, white, female, gay, whatever, Spike hardly ever presents characters that are as fully-developed as possible, i.e., their depictions are too one-sided or based on stereotypes to be honest.

I mean, Malcolm X may be the most "real" or developed character in a Spike Lee film ever, and that's kinda cheating. (This speaks to my own theory that Spike is much better when working from outside source material or in documentaries.)

>can you hook up some examples?
>
>(please don't yell at me about the errands you have to run
>it's just a question lol)
>
>>and what i perceive as a
>>distinct lack of respect - sometimes even bordering on
>>contempt - of his audience.

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Tue Jan-02-07 08:43 PM

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52. "see, here's the thing about that:"
In response to Reply # 48


          

for all the heavyhandedness y'all see in spike's shit, are his critiques not accurate? Bamboozled and crooklyn pretty much hit their mark in my opinion.

Y'all act like we live in a world that doesn't included flavor of love, BET, MTV, and random other pop culture niggery. Crooklyn was partially about choices consumers make, and Bamboozled was about choices producers make. Neither were contemptuous in my opinion...(okay bamboozled was pretty seething, but it should have been)

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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53. "i ain't worrying about his messages if the medium sucks"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

dude is supposed to be a FILMMAKER

are his FILMS good or not?

basically, you're telling me that he should get a pass for what he was "trying" to say, regardless of how well he actually said it

that tactic reminds me of the 2Pac apologists who will excuse Pac's lack of technical proficiency as a rapper and make the case that Pac was a great MC "because he spoke truth!"

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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55. "actually nah, that's not what i'm saying"
In response to Reply # 53


          

his filmmaking is solid to spectacular usually. Your critique was "he's heavyhanded". to which i say 1)i don't think so, 2)and his points are usually correct.

And he's a hell of a filmmaker to boot

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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58. "'solid to spectacular'"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

i could really use some elaboration on how you came to that conclusion

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kayru99
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Tue Jan-02-07 10:24 PM

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62. "RE: 'solid to spectacular'"
In response to Reply # 58
Tue Jan-02-07 10:32 PM by kayru99

          

great cinematography, usually among the best in american cinema
great shot selection
great dialogue
ridiculously deep and beautiful mise-en-scene
and aside from girl 6 and the 25th hour, his films are never ever boring...but then again, a lot of folk who hate spike's work love one or both of those films.

EDITED IN: And great GREAT acting ALWAYS. Ol boy gets the best performances from the best actors. CONSISTENTLY. END EDIT

Third acts weak? Buddy makes critical, political films. Those tend to not follow standard storytelling arcs. Hell, altman and jarmusch make films that are about waaaaay more than the supposed narrative, too, yet they are praised for it.

Plus, his third acts are fine to me. you tryin to say the third act to crooklyn wasn't tense to you? You didn't empathize with bleak after his shit got busted in mo' betta blues? You wasn't tense as fuck by the last 1/2 hour of do the right thing? You ain't feel for EVERYBODY in jungle fever?

But you gonna ride for griffith, of all folks? Naw man, you slippin

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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64. "Spike certainly has great cinematography"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

Malik Sayeed is one of my favorites, and Ernest Dickerson was quite good in his day, too

but if you say that Spike has great dialogue? *scoffs*

please... don't make me start pulling up quotes from his movies to illustrate the horrible, stilted, cumbersome dialogue, most of which reads more like "speeches"

i don't think the acting is good, either... and it's not even the actors' fault. Spike's characters are usually little more than stereotypes, so they don't have much to work with. Denzel is usually the only one who can really breathe any kind of dimension into Spike's characters... (trynna make up my mind about Mackie too)

>Third acts weak? Buddy makes critical, political films.
>Those tend to not follow standard storytelling arcs. Hell,
>altman and jarmusch make films that are about waaaaay more
>than the supposed narrative, too, yet they are praised for it.

please... don't give me that "he don't follow standard storytelling arcs because he don't want to" junk. that bullshit is always the first plea copped by people who never even bother to learn the rules before they start breaking them.

Spike was able to get away with that shit in the early days... i pardoned him for his sloppy, non sequitur, inconclusive endings on his first five films. for a while, it even seemed like it was gonna be a defining stylistic trait for him, and some of the non sequiturs at the end ("WAKE UP!" or grabbing the crackhead and screaming, or whatever the hell happened at the end of She's Gotta Have It, or even the end of Do The Right Thing) somehow worked as provocative springboards for discussion... if you wanted them to.

but by the time Crooklyn rolled around, it became clear that dude just did not KNOW how to end a story... so he just stages some elaborate visual stunt like telephones falling from the sky or the father throwing the basketball to his son to let you know that the movie is over.

see... that is an age-old strategy of art school filmmakers: present some cryptic imagery and if the audience complains that it makes little sense, then you can transfer the blame onto THEM because they lack the insight to read an interpretation into the imagery. and it's a load of bullshit.

i'm gonna ignore the justification you tried to offer that Spike's endings are bad because he makes "political" films.

i'm assuming you said that in jest, and i did in fact get a gtood chuckle out of it.

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kayru99
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67. "the acting in summer of sam"
In response to Reply # 64


          

do the right thing, mo' betta blues, he got game, Clockers (delroy lindo was one of the best villains in that shit), 25th hour, and Malcolm X wasn't good to you? Seriously?

And again, the third act in MBB, Clockers, Summer of Sam, Jungle Fever, School Daze, were all good to great to me. You cite problems with the LAST SHOT, which is a damn sight different than the 3rd act. Sorry, a film about crack (jungle fever) is probably gonna end darkly and inconclusively. A film about intraracial color complexes and class (School Daze) can't really end conclusively, especially when that film is OVERTLY political.

And fuck Jay-z, btw. This shit is about film

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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68. "ummm... says who?"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

>Sorry, a film about crack (jungle
>fever) is probably gonna end darkly and inconclusively. A
>film about intraracial color complexes and class (School Daze)
>can't really end conclusively, especially when that film is
>OVERTLY political.

please... you're telling a story about some CHARACTERS, not trying to actually solve the problem in the real world. don't tell me that "it *can't* end conclusively." why the fuck not?

all the movies in the world about bad guys and good guys manage to deliver satisfying endings without purporting to actually end man's inhumanity to man in the real world.

that's just silly, fam...

and don't give me that "the film is overtly political" jazz, either. what exactly does that mean? ALL art is political. but if you want to emphasize political films, i'd say that maybe stuff like Costas-Gavras films woiuld qualify. but Spike's muddle-minded social statements are "overtly political"?

what are you talking about?

and yes... Spike has serious problems with the third act. i cited the final shots of those films because the cryptic final shot has become Spike's trademark evasive strategy to draw attention away from how his stories generally fall apart by the end.

(Mo' Better Blues is a rare exception, btw)

>And fuck Jay-z, btw. This shit is about film

no... that is a direct analogy to the kind of argument you're presenting here.

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Wed Jan-03-07 12:25 AM

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70. "RE: ummm... says who?"
In response to Reply # 68


          

>>Sorry, a film about crack (jungle
>>fever) is probably gonna end darkly and inconclusively. A
>>film about intraracial color complexes and class (School
>Daze)
>>can't really end conclusively, especially when that film is
>>OVERTLY political.
>
>please... you're telling a story about some CHARACTERS, not
>trying to actually solve the problem in the real world. don't
>tell me that "it *can't* end conclusively." why the fuck not?

>all the movies in the world about bad guys and good guys
>manage to deliver satisfying endings without purporting to
>actually end man's inhumanity to man in the real world.
>
>that's just silly, fam...

Ok so who's the bad guy and good guy in Jungle Fever? In Broken Flowers? In The Player? Not just spike, but most FILMS are inconclusive, cuz most films don't have bad guys and good guys. Most of those endings are satisfying. They usually won't be conclusive, tho, cuz films about life aren't, playboy. All around the world, most films about people don't have a clean, clear cut endings.
>
>and don't give me that "the film is overtly political" jazz,
>either. what exactly does that mean? ALL art is political. but
>if you want to emphasize political films, i'd say that maybe
>stuff like Costas-Gavras films woiuld qualify. but Spike's
>muddle-minded social statements are "overtly political"?
>
>what are you talking about?
>
>and yes... Spike has serious problems with the third act. i
>cited the final shots of those films because the cryptic final
>shot has become Spike's trademark evasive strategy to draw
>attention away from how his stories generally fall apart by
>the end.
>
>(Mo' Better Blues is a rare exception, btw)
>
>>And fuck Jay-z, btw. This shit is about film
>
>no... that is a direct analogy to the kind of argument you're
>presenting here.


whateva man
>

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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72. "*sigh* just forget it, fam."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

you're playing semantics at this point, and i just can't (or rather, won't) go there.

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Mgmt
Member since Feb 17th 2005
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Sat Dec-30-06 01:51 AM

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33. "RE: Spike Lee... the thorn in your side"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Dec-30-06 01:54 AM by Mgmt

  

          

No offense, but it seems to me that you're trying to be incendiary to get people to react strongly to Spike. As if a strong, polarized, racially charged reaction is the only reaction that one should have for spike.

Can't we talk about some of the great acting performances that have come from his movies? Can we talk about some technical merit or anything besides the race stuff and the soapbox stuff? If not, this thread will make it seem as though spike has little to offer.

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
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Sat Dec-30-06 10:38 AM

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38. "sorry if it came off that way. wasnt my intention but"
In response to Reply # 33
Sat Dec-30-06 10:38 AM by Majik43

  

          

the responses to the post, if anything, are what has made it look that way. dont be deterred.

<--- chyeah.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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Nettrice
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Sat Dec-30-06 02:35 AM

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34. "When Spike is here next month I will ask him about his politics..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat Dec-30-06 02:57 AM by Nettrice

  

          

...even though I've already heard him speak on it in several interviews over the years. When I lived in BK there were older folks who knew Spike Lee as a kid and had nothing positive to say about him. That's what made me like him...he dances to the beat of his own drum.

Around the same time I was questioned about my own art.

Them: Why do you always make paintings of black people?

Me: Why not?

Why not make art that reflects our experiences. We live in a society where the biggest problems is color and class. Of course, someone like Spike Lee is going to be angry but it doesn't make him an "angry Black man" or a "racist". A sexist perhaps but, as an artist, he can make whatever he wants. I did not see Girl 6 (or She Hate Me) when it came out and still have not seen it. I didn't like the plot/story but I loved 4 Little Girls and was okay with He's Got Game. It was at this point that Lee went into a different direction. I miss his work before 2000 but I respect his need to make the films he wants to make.

This brings me to Langston Hughes' essay, The Negro Artist and the Racial Mountain:

"One of the most promising of the young Negro poets said to me once, "I want to be a poet--not a Negro poet," meaning, I believe, "I want to write like a white poet"; meaning subconsciously, "I would like to be a white poet"; meaning behind that, "I would like to be white." And I was sorry the young man said that, for no great poet has ever been afraid of being himself. And I doubted then that, with his desire to run away spiritually from his race, this boy would ever be a great poet. But this is the mountain standing in the way of any true Negro art in America--this urge within the race toward whiteness, the desire to pour racial individuality into the mold of American standardization, and to be as little Negro and as much American as possible." - http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/g_l/hughes/mountain.htm

I am almost certain that, as a Black man who happens to be a filmmaker, Spike Lee has had to climb a very high mountain in order to discover himself and his people. There will always be those who are white, Black, etc. who will criticize. What makes me happy is that he makes him film in spite of it.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
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39. "^^^ so on point"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          


>"One of the most promising of the young Negro poets said to me
>once, "I want to be a poet--not a Negro poet," meaning, I
>believe, "I want to write like a white poet"; meaning
>subconsciously, "I would like to be a white poet"; meaning
>behind that, "I would like to be white." And I was sorry the
>young man said that, for no great poet has ever been afraid of
>being himself. And I doubted then that, with his desire to run
>away spiritually from his race, this boy would ever be a great
>poet. But this is the mountain standing in the way of any true
>Negro art in America--this urge within the race toward
>whiteness, the desire to pour racial individuality into the
>mold of American standardization, and to be as little Negro
>and as much American as possible." -
>http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/g_l/hughes/mountain.htm
>
>I am almost certain that, as a Black man who happens to be a
>filmmaker, Spike Lee has had to climb a very high mountain in
>order to discover himself and his people. There will always
>be those who are white, Black, etc. who will criticize. What
>makes me happy is that he makes him film in spite of it.

<--- chyeah.

Took a picture of the truth and tried to develop it
Had proof, it was only recognized by the intelligent - Rashid

  

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fire
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75. "excellent"
In response to Reply # 34


          


>"One of the most promising of the young Negro poets said to me
>once, "I want to be a poet--not a Negro poet," meaning, I
>believe, "I want to write like a white poet"; meaning
>subconsciously, "I would like to be a white poet"; meaning
>behind that, "I would like to be white." And I was sorry the
>young man said that, for no great poet has ever been afraid of
>being himself. And I doubted then that, with his desire to run
>away spiritually from his race, this boy would ever be a great
>poet. But this is the mountain standing in the way of any true
>Negro art in America--this urge within the race toward
>whiteness, the desire to pour racial individuality into the
>mold of American standardization, and to be as little Negro
>and as much American as possible." -
>http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/g_l/hughes/mountain.htm
>

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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76. "umm.... Langston Hughes wrote that, like, 80 years ago."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

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fire
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77. "& so what? it holds true for this post"
In response to Reply # 76


          

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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78. "no, it doesn't... America was a different place in 1926"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

for the most part, a Negro poet had no choice BUT to be a Negro poet, so saying "i don't want to be a 'Negro' poet" could be interpreted as an attempt to spiritually escape from one's negritude."

but today? it's different. Negroes have a lot more opportunities available to them, and i see no reason why they should not take advantage of them. saying "i don't want to be a Negro artist" means "i don't want to just play BET and the CW... i want to get as big of an audience for my work as i can!"

is Will Smith "a Ngero actor"? no... he is not. does not mean that he's not a proud Black man, though. but he's managed to manifest an appeal that crosses the race divide and captivate Americans of ALL stripes (shit... not just Americans, either)

saying "I don't want to be a Negro poet" in 2007 simply indicates the refusal to ghettoize oneself as an artist, and i for one applaud that.

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fire
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79. "^^^^^was alive in 1926"
In response to Reply # 78


          

>for the most part, a Negro poet had no choice BUT to be a
>Negro poet, so saying "i don't want to be a 'Negro' poet"
>could be interpreted as an attempt to spiritually escape from
>one's negritude."
>
>but today? it's different. Negroes have a lot more
>opportunities available to them, and i see no reason why they
>should not take advantage of them. saying "i don't want to be
>a Negro artist" means "i don't want to just play BET and the
>CW... i want to get as big of an audience for my work as i
>can!"


just because they have more opportunities available to them doesn't mean they want to take advantage of the opportunities nor do they want to nor do they think the opportunities are to their advantage.


>
>is Will Smith "a Ngero actor"? no... he is not. does not mean
>that he's not a proud Black man, though. but he's managed to
>manifest an appeal that crosses the race divide and captivate
>Americans of ALL stripes (shit... not just Americans, either)

so has spike lee.


>
>saying "I don't want to be a Negro poet" in 2007 simply
>indicates the refusal to ghettoize oneself as an artist, and i
>for one applaud that.

so now negro = ghetto?

i KNOW that's not what you are saying?...

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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81. "yes, 'negro' = 'ghetto'"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

what, are you surprised by that?

please... don't act like you don't know.

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fire
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82. "no.it.does.not."
In response to Reply # 81


          

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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84. "prove it."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

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fire
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85. "RE: prove it."
In response to Reply # 84


          

http://www.neptunecowboy.com/ImageArchive/trailer%20park-01.JPG

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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87. "uh-huh. i see."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

*whispers "what the fuck?"*

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dunk
Member since Aug 05th 2006
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95. "nooooooooooooooooo(c) Wesley Snipes"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

  

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Nettrice
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83. "Will Smith is a Black actor"
In response to Reply # 78
Wed Jan-03-07 01:02 PM by Nettrice

  

          

Based on the comments I've read on imdb.com (Pursuit of Nappyness) and other sites he is not just an actor. He is an Black actor. He has not transcended his Blackness and that's not a bad thing, either.

As a Black artist I can honestly add that while there are many more opportunities to create and distribute my work I will always be a Black artist because I make art based on what I love and reflects my experiences (as a Black woman). This defines my work, as well as who I am. Thus, Hughes essay is quite relevant to me and other Black artists who don't see Blackness as 'ghetto-ness' but as a very valued way of living and perceiving the world.

"Certainly there is, for the American Negro artist who can escape the restrictions the more advanced among his own group would put upon him, a great field of unused material ready for his art. Without going outside his race, and even among the better classes with their "white" culture and conscious American manners, but still Negro enough to be different, there is sufficient matter to furnish a black artist with a lifetime of creative work. And when he chooses to touch on the relations between Negroes and whites in this country, with their innumerable overtones and undertones surely, and especially for literature and the drama, there is an inexhaustible supply of themes at hand. To these the Negro artist can give his racial individuality, his heritage of rhythm and warmth, and his incongruous humor that so often, as in the Blues, becomes ironic laughter mixed with tears. But let us look again at the mountain.

...

The Negro artist works against an undertow of sharp criticism and misunderstanding from his own group and unintentional bribes from the whites. "Oh, be respectable, write about nice people, show how good we are," say the Negroes. "Be stereotyped, don't go too far, don't shatter our illusions about you, don't amuse us too seriously. We will pay you," say the whites. Both would have told Jean Toomer not to write Cane. The colored people did not praise it. The white people did not buy it. Most of the colored people who did read Cane hate it. They are afraid of it. Although the critics gave it good reviews the public remained indifferent. Yet (excepting the work of Du Bois) Cane contains the finest prose written by a Negro in America. And like the singing of Robeson, it is truly racial.

But in spite of the Nordicized Negro intelligentsia and the desires of some white editors we have an honest American Negro literature already with us. Now I await the rise of the Negro theater. Our folk music, having achieved world-wide fame, offers itself to the genius of the great individual American composer who is to come. And within the next decade I expect to see the work of a growing school of colored artists who paint and model the beauty of dark faces and create with new technique the expressions of their own soul-world. And the Negro dancers who will dance like flame and the singers who will continue to carry our songs to all who listen-they will be with us in even greater numbers tomorrow.

Most of my own poems are racial in theme and treatment, derived from the life I know. In many of them I try to grasp and hold some of the meanings and rhythms of jazz. I am as sincere as I know how to be in these poems and yet after every reading I answer questions like these from my own people: Do you think Negroes should always write about Negroes? I wish you wouldn't read some of your poems to white folks. How do you find anything interesting in a place like a cabaret? Why do you write about black people? You aren't black. What makes you do so many jazz poems?" (thanks Langston Hughes)

Our society has changed but not as much as some people seem to think. I watched a white man call a Black bus driver a monkey and told another Black guy to go back to Africa...yesterday. Happy New Year/Old Year! lol

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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86. "Will Smith is not a 'Black actor.' Duane Martin is a 'Black actor.'"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

and it's funny that you should mention The Pursuit of Happyness, considering the way that film barely even acknowledges the character's race, instead situating his journey within the context of class-based struggle.

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Nettrice
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88. "Shame on you"
In response to Reply # 86
Wed Jan-03-07 01:10 PM by Nettrice

  

          

I'll say it for Langston who is no longer here:

I am ashamed for the Black actor who says, "I want to be a actor, not a Black actor," as though his own racial world were not as interesting as any other world. I am ashamed, too, for the Black artist who runs from the images of Negro faces to other images after the manner of the academicians because he fears the strange unwhiteness of his own features. An artist must be free to choose what he does, certainly, but he must also never be afraid to do what he must choose.

>and it's funny that you should mention The Pursuit of
>Happyness, considering the way that film barely even
>acknowledges the character's race, instead situating his
>journey within the context of class-based struggle.

I challenge you to go to imdb.com and see just how different Smith is from any other Black actor in the eyes of the general American public. Not much difference there at all because if it was different I would not be seeing so many race-based posts about Will Smith in his latest role. Race shouldn't even be a topic but it is.

Nappyness, indeed.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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89. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 88
Wed Jan-03-07 01:40 PM by AFKAP_of_Darkness

  

          

ain't nobody talking about running away from one's own "racial world" (whatever that means)

but there's nothing wrong with an artist refusing to have their art defined primarily by their race.

even the great Stepin Fetchit struggled hard to be accepted and respected first and foremost as AN ACTOR rather than as "a Race artist".

unfortunately, he failed. and we can see how history has remembered him now as a result.

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fire
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93. "primarily, secondarily, tenthdarily"
In response to Reply # 89


          

blackness, in america....hell in almost every country except for african countries plays into art, from the artists stance to the audiences take away.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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94. "it 'plays in' to the art... don't mean it has to DEFINE it."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

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Nettrice
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99. "RE: LOL"
In response to Reply # 89
Fri Jan-05-07 06:03 PM by Nettrice

  

          

Two films that represent "Blackness" to me is Five on the Black Hand Side and Black Girl (Ossie directed this one). Although the latter came out when I was an infant I can still relate to it now that I am grown. I came up during the Black Power era and, so I am aware of this "world".

>but there's nothing wrong with an artist refusing to have
>their art defined primarily by their race.

Only if that artist is not being true to himself. I paint Black people because it's what I know but I can also paint anyone. I am not limited, nor am I running away from "Blackness". If she had lived long enough I would have painted my grandmother who refused to admit she had gray eyes (she claimed they were brown). Her refusal to acknowledge anything European in her looks would influence me greatly (as an artist). It was my elders and mentors who represented a different world, a world I belonged to just by being in my own skin. This is what I wanted to paint. This is what Hughes was writing about.

>even the great Stepin Fetchit struggled hard to be accepted
>and respected first and foremost as AN ACTOR rather than as "a
>Race artist".

Unfortunately, Fetchit chose roles that allowed Hollywood to typecast him. I've seen at least one film in which Fetchit is not the slurring, shuffling, n'er-do-well but that's nothing compared to his other roles.

"While Stepin Fetchit was undoubtedly one of the most talented physical comedians ever to do his shtick on the Big Screen, achieving the rare status of being a character actor-supporting player who actually achieved superstar status in the 1930s (becoming a millionaire to boot), his characterization as a lazy, slow-witted, jive-talkin' "coon" offended African Americans at the time he was a major attraction in motion pictures (primarily the 1930s) and still offends African Americans in the 21st Century, some half-century after he had faded from the screen." - http://imdb.com/name/nm0275297/bio

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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106. "RE: Stepin Fetchit"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

>"While Stepin Fetchit was undoubtedly one of the most talented
>physical comedians ever to do his shtick on the Big Screen,
>achieving the rare status of being a character
>actor-supporting player who actually achieved superstar status
>in the 1930s (becoming a millionaire to boot), his
>characterization as a lazy, slow-witted, jive-talkin' "coon"
>offended African Americans at the time he was a major
>attraction in motion pictures (primarily the 1930s) and still
>offends African Americans in the 21st Century, some
>half-century after he had faded from the screen." -
>http://imdb.com/name/nm0275297/bio

this is revisionism.

Black people LOVED him and his work at the time he was at the peak of his career.

it was only AFTER his career had ended that a newer, more "militant" generation emerged that professed embarrassment at his movies and the NAACP started moving to protest demeaning "coon" roles.

but back in the late 1920s and early 30s when he was at the top of the world? he was being feted alongside Zora Neale Hurston and Langston Hughes.

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kysersozey
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46. "Spike doesn't make ENOUGH movies imo..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He's gets an A+ from me. You'll be hardpressed to get anyone who doesn't like HIM to like is work though. Kinda like Mel Gibson ya know.

  

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maternalbliss
Member since Jul 05th 2005
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Tue Jan-02-07 01:25 PM

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49. "RE: Spike Lee... the thorn in your side"
In response to Reply # 0


          

In my side...hardly. Spike has a spotty record. I just don'e find most of his work entertaining. As far as his personal politics I really don't pay much attention to celebreties because they almost always are a mixed bag anyway. I do remember his disdain for the Color Purple which I felt was unwarranted. He was talking about how negative Mister was. The movie was about self acceptance and Celie learning to love herself. A beutifaul story indeed. A long suffering noble character whose fate is dependent on inner strength. We have had s string of movies with noble black characters whose fate depended on WHITES ie. Green Mile, Hurricane, and the recent garbage Blood Diamond. Yet I do not recall hearing any criticism from him over these films yet he was all over the place bitchin about the Color Purple. IMO he has just convinced himself and many others that he is more intelligent and has something important too say,Lol. I also feel the same way about John singleton.

  

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maternalbliss
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Tue Jan-02-07 01:41 PM

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50. "RE: without typos"
In response to Reply # 49


          

>In my side...hardly. Spike has a spotty record. I just
>don't find most of his work entertaining. As far as his
>personal politics I really don't pay much attention to
>celebrities because they almost always are a mixed bag
>anyway. I do remember his disdain for the Color Purple which I
>felt was unwarranted. He was talking about how negative
>Mister was. The movie was about self acceptance and Celie
>learning to love herself. A beautiful story indeed. A long
>suffering noble character whose fate is dependent on inner
>strength. We have had s string of movies with noble
>black characters whose fate depended on WHITES ie. Green
>Mile, Hurricane, and the recent garbage Blood Diamond. Yet
>I do not recall hearing any criticism from him over these
>films yet he was all over the place bitchin about the
> Color Purple. IMO he has just convinced himself and many
>others that he is more intelligent and has something
>important too say,Lol. I also feel the same way about John
>singleton.

  

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fire
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73. "one of the few genius filmmakers left on this uninhabitable earth"
In response to Reply # 0


          

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

  

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jalen05
Member since Oct 12th 2005
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Wed Jan-03-07 11:39 AM

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74. "RE: one of the few genius filmmakers left on this uninhabitable earth"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

Yeah, he's great. I finally saw Inside Man over the weekend...a very well scripted movie.

  

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ZooTown74
Member since May 29th 2002
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Wed Jan-03-07 12:42 PM

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80. "Mission Accomplished!"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jan-03-07 01:05 PM by ZooTown74

  

          

*throws on N.W.A.'s "Real N----z" (Ren was a BEAST!)*
_______________________________________________________________________
1. When the Levees Broke 2. The Departed 3. Dreamgirls 4. Little Miss Sunshine 5. The Prestige
6. Miami Vice 7. Marie Antoinette 8. Inside Man 9. Brick 10. United 93

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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96. "Charles Burnett says more about race and sex than Spike"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in the movie "One False Move"

and he manages to do it in the context of a thrilling, suspenseful genre flick with a satisfying (and yet potentially open-ended) conclusion

what say ye?

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The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Majik43
Member since Mar 17th 2005
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Fri Jan-05-07 04:26 PM

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97. "i haven't seen that but i WILL say this"
In response to Reply # 96
Fri Jan-05-07 04:29 PM by Majik43

  

          

and if the shoe fits well *shrugs* but:

the way the media portrays spike, the way they sensationalize his work and what he's ultimately about, as a filmaker, can inspire disdain and rejection from viewers. no one wants to be preached to and the media are very quick to give him the unwarranted "saviour of the black race" label.

they glance right over the insight and engaging discussions/debates that his films can spark and go straight for any stereotyping, violence, and sex that they can find.

there is far more violence, stereotyping, and hopelessness (if u wanna call it that) to be found in the films of scorsese, cappola, eastwood and a whole host of acclaimed white filmmakers. shoot, even singletons films have more blood, and just as much stereotyping in them, but his subject matter is far safer.

boyz-n-the hood essentially played blacks off against each other, and that was cool with the media and critics alike, but when he dared to talk about racism on campus (higher learning) they called him heavy-handed and wet behind the ears. lol, stay in line negro.

now dont get me wrong, i like all the filmakers i've mentioned... but they all get an easy ride in comparison to spike, who's films are scrutinized before they're even finished.

so... i say all that to say this. while i can and do welcome any genuine criticisms to be made of spike as a technical filmaker/storyteller, i will not entertain sentiments which clearly come from resistance to a black filmmaker who, despite his fame, stature and wealth, STILL chooses to make films which make us all feel a little uncomfortable because of the ugly truth they deal with and the steadfastness with which its maker is commited to telling these stories.

i'm glad we have a speilberg.

i'm glad we have an eastwood.

i'm glad we have a scorsese.

and i'm every bit as glad (if not glad-er) that we have a spike.

for as long as america was built on the backs of slaves and continues to avoid facing its past to build towards a better future... there will always be a story for spike lee to tell.

and even if he doesnt feel like telling it anymore in his old age, i'm sure he's given someone the inspiration and the courage to do so.

listen to the cds I play inside / miles davis, prince, and paul simon / marvin gaye, led zeppelin and jay dee...

  

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Sat Jan-06-07 07:10 PM

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100. "and there it is"
In response to Reply # 97


          

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Sat Jan-06-07 08:39 PM

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105. "the shoe doesn't fit."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

my beefs with Spike have nothing to do with any of that.

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Nettrice
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Fri Jan-05-07 05:44 PM

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98. "Charles Burnett didn't do One False Move"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

wtf? Carl Franklin did One False Move (and Devil in a Blue Dress). He was also Larry in Good Times and almost married Thelma but that's another story. lol

Burnett did Killer of Sheep, To Sleep With Anger, and The Glass Shield. Are talking about one of these films?

I saw Killer of Sheep in college and was blown away by it.




>in the movie "One False Move"
>
>and he manages to do it in the context of a thrilling,
>suspenseful genre flick with a satisfying (and yet potentially
>open-ended) conclusion
>
>what say ye?

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Sat Jan-06-07 08:33 PM

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104. "my bad... i was talking about Carl Franklin, not Charles Burnett"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

although Burnett also handles race better than Spike

thanks

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kayru99
Member since Jan 26th 2004
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Sat Jan-06-07 07:13 PM

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101. "the joint with cynda williams?"
In response to Reply # 96


          

hell naw...

actually, i thought that shit was just another fucked up white people fantasy flick til i found out a brother directed it.

And i don't think that was burnett, like ms lady says above

  

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