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Lobby Okay Activist Archives topic #9937

Subject: "(J)ust (A)(N)other Qu(E)r(Y)" This topic is locked.
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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Tue Nov-13-01 05:14 AM

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"(J)ust (A)(N)other Qu(E)r(Y)"


  

          

something i think about every time i read throuh one of Thich Naht Hahn's books...which has been a lot lately. He has some very interesting things to say about war being as he lived through one...and would seemingly have a "revolutionary" type outlook on issues going on in/with the west.

the question: how does buddhism interact with the revolutionary spirit? specifically, how it deals with those forces that are in DIRECT OPPOSITION to peace and harmony. how does one react to an individual like that? an institution like that?

reading this book "Being Peace" is making me rethink this "fiery sword" thing. Makes it seem more like instant gratification of spilling blood (metaphorically) of enemies to harmony vs. a more subtle technique of reaching those entities in a more understanding-like way. the latter would take WAYYYYY longer, but could be more longlasting and stable.

anyways the questions again:

how does buddhism interact with the revolutionary spirit? specifically, how it deals with those forces that are in DIRECT OPPOSITION to peace and harmony. how does one react to an individual like that? an institution like that?

Red, Black, Green

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
*peeks head in*
Nov 13th 2001
1
I hear you
Nov 13th 2001
2
i hope you respond soon. i finished this book today
Nov 14th 2001
3
      RE: i hope you respond soon. i finished this book today
laursen
Nov 14th 2001
14
      see below AND
Nov 14th 2001
28
isn't thich nhat hanh...
Nov 14th 2001
4
send it to me...
Nov 14th 2001
5
      RE: send it to me...
Nov 14th 2001
6
      get BEING PEACE
Nov 14th 2001
7
           ...YES. it is TOO "TRUTHFUL"...
Nov 14th 2001
8
                i am a woman of my word
Nov 14th 2001
11
                     yipppeeee!!!!
Nov 14th 2001
12
                          RE: yipppeeee!!!!
Nov 14th 2001
13
                               please! please! please! DO THAT!
Nov 14th 2001
15
                                    the pressures on
Nov 14th 2001
18
                                         i'm convinced
Nov 14th 2001
23
      check your inbox n/m
Nov 16th 2001
43
understanding
Nov 14th 2001
9
Thich
Nov 14th 2001
10
RE: Thich
Nov 15th 2001
38
You like Him!!!
Nov 14th 2001
16
maybe he thought he was jesus?
Nov 14th 2001
17
I LOVE him!!!!!
Nov 14th 2001
19
i used to post taoist scriptures and poems a while back...
Nov 14th 2001
20
      Can you do that..?
Nov 14th 2001
21
           sure! the book is called 365 Tao...just so you'll know...
Nov 14th 2001
22
                lao tzu is my hero
Nov 14th 2001
24
a long reply
Nov 14th 2001
25
it could all be so simple...
Nov 15th 2001
29
RE: a long reply
Nov 15th 2001
31
      that right there
Nov 15th 2001
34
Lovingkindness
Nov 14th 2001
26
Developing the compassionate heart
Nov 14th 2001
27
RE: Developing the compassionate heart
Nov 15th 2001
30
      must you
Nov 15th 2001
36
      don't forget
Nov 15th 2001
41
           exactamundo...
Nov 16th 2001
42
           mwuah
Nov 18th 2001
48
RE: (J)ust (A)(N)other Qu(E)r(Y)
yinka
Nov 15th 2001
32
ok Mara...
Nov 15th 2001
33
      you think i jest
yinka
Nov 15th 2001
35
           i was joking with you.
Nov 15th 2001
37
but...
Nov 15th 2001
39
The Relationship of Practice and World Peace
Nov 15th 2001
40
RE: The Relationship of Practice and World Peace
Nov 16th 2001
44
      emotions
Nov 16th 2001
45
           i hope they get more frequent...
Nov 16th 2001
46
                Or as Linus said
Nov 16th 2001
47
thanksyall
Nov 19th 2001
49
more information
Nov 19th 2001
50
www.bodydharma
Nov 19th 2001
51
up for bboy
Nov 29th 2001
52
Karma
Dec 07th 2001
53

LexM
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28342 posts
Tue Nov-13-01 05:24 AM

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1. "*peeks head in*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

u ain't slick



*creeps back out*

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

"i abound with shelectricity..." ~~ursula rucker

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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janey
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123124 posts
Tue Nov-13-01 08:09 AM

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2. "I hear you"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And I'll respond within a day or two, but I can't do your questions justice until I have a little time to compose my answers, i.e., not at the office.

Good questions, though, and ones that have been raised in many milieus in recent days, including in my sangha.

Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 04:16 AM

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3. "i hope you respond soon. i finished this book today"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

...and read these 14 precepts at the end. WOW! everything i had been thinking over the past few years articulated by Thich...

i'm swaying between living them OR... slaughtering all Americans so i can end 90% of the world's suffering.

_____________________________________________________________________________
One of my favorite quotes:

"Real recognize real. And the FAKE, they REALLY, REALLY recognize real." -c/o BlackThought

PEOPLE SUSPENDED FROM THE REVOLUTION:

Zesi
360sumsunyea

Red, Black, Green

  

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laursen

Wed Nov-14-01 10:19 AM

  
14. "RE: i hope you respond soon. i finished this book today"
In response to Reply # 3


          

>i'm swaying between living them OR...
>slaughtering all Americans so i
>can end 90% of the
>world's suffering.

how would that work exactly?

  

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janey
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123124 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 08:19 PM

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28. "see below AND"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

I'll add some more on karma in the next day or so, but I'm a little burned out right now. It's funny about the dharma. Wherever you start in it is a door to the whole thing. So on the one hand, it can be summed up succintly in the four noble truths or the other pithy teachings, and on the other hand, I don't like to talk about any part of it because it seems to leave a whole lot unsaid.

I think I'll ask wbgirl to archive this one, too, because it seems like we're getting some repeat questions through here.

Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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thebigfunk
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10466 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 06:11 AM

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4. "isn't thich nhat hanh..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

incredible???

utamaroho, did you read the thich nhat hanh interview i posted awhile back... the subject line was something like "What I Would Say To Osama Bin Laden"... it was a great piece...

if not, i think i saved it. i'll see if i can find it for you.

also, read "Anger." I just finished that one... very appropriate for these days and times.

-thebigfunk
Six on the Player:
Vance Gilbert - Somerville Live
Ellis Paul - Translucent Soul
Nathaniel Merriweather Presents Loveage: Music To Make Love To Your Old Lady By
Outkast - Atliens
Yesterday's New Quintet - Angles Without Edges
Sly - Small Talk

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 06:17 AM

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5. "send it to me..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

did he write ANGER?

Thich is on a whole other level! i wanna type these 14 precepts out...but i don't want to see them come under attack by some cats reading them. they are SO pure, i don't want to tarnish them like that. nahmean. thiat's why i always say "LIVE IT, then you'll understand" vs. just reading something and thinking about it until you decide its not for you.

Red, Black, Green

  

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lionesslocks10
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191 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 08:08 AM

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6. "RE: send it to me..."
In response to Reply # 5


          

I've been really procrastinating when it comes to reading his work. I guess maybe because I've heard a lot about how hardhitting and truthful it is. I'm going to the bookstore right this minute before I lose the gumption.

Peace

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 08:24 AM

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7. "get BEING PEACE"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

_____________________________________________________________________________
One of my favorite quotes:

"Real recognize real. And the FAKE, they REALLY, REALLY recognize real." -c/o BlackThought

PEOPLE SUSPENDED FROM THE REVOLUTION:

Zesi
360sumsunyea

Red, Black, Green

  

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Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 08:26 AM

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8. "...YES. it is TOO "TRUTHFUL"..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

makes me shake my head and wish more people would live by his words...it would require more discipline and internal power and compassion for others than i think i'm ready for...excuses i guess. plus the dude is BOUT IT! from what i've heard about him on a persoanl level. light he radiates beams of light
or something...

Red, Black, Green

  

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lionesslocks10
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191 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 09:39 AM

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11. "i am a woman of my word"
In response to Reply # 8


          

I got Being Peace and The Miracle of Mindfulness. The brother has like a bizillion publications but I had to start somewhere. I'm trying read it now but I don't think my boss will appreciate that very much so I might hold off til later. Will return with comments and questions.

Peace

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 09:56 AM

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12. "yipppeeee!!!!"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

I would LOVE to speak with you while you read this. i need someone else's thoughts...

my favorite chapters: "Feelings and Perceptions" and "Interbeing"

AWESOME STUFF IN BOTH...

Red, Black, Green

  

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lionesslocks10
Charter member
191 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 10:00 AM

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13. "RE: yipppeeee!!!!"
In response to Reply # 12


          

no doubt...i'll be back here tomorrow with lots to say.

peace

  

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Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 10:20 AM

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15. "please! please! please! DO THAT!"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

*Utamaroho is excited*

Seriously. I even have free long istance if you wanna talk about those chapters...

it's so weird that such a small book speaks volumes and VOLUMES of insight into the human condition/experience.

Red, Black, Green

  

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lionesslocks10
Charter member
191 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 10:36 AM

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18. "the pressures on"
In response to Reply # 15


          

this is great...now I'm kind of tempted to hide in the ladies room so I can read this joint in peace.

  

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Sunday
Charter member
1781 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 06:44 PM

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23. "i'm convinced"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

gonna have to run out and buy it too!

sunny

!ya basta!

"the 'centre' asks us, demands of us, that we should sign a peace agreement quickly and convert ourselves into an 'institutional' political force, that is to say, convert ourselves into yet another part of the machinery of power. to them we answer 'NO' and they do not understand it. they do not understand that we are not in agreement with those ideas. they do not understand that we do not want offices or posts in the gov't. they do not understand that we are stuggling not for the stairs to be swept clean from the top to the bottom, but for there to be no stairs, for there to be no kingdom at all."

-Zapatista statement-

  

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thebigfunk
Charter member
10466 posts
Fri Nov-16-01 07:18 AM

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43. "check your inbox n/m"
In response to Reply # 5


          

-thebigfunk
Six on the Player:
Vance Gilbert - Somerville Live
Ellis Paul - Translucent Soul
Nathaniel Merriweather Presents Loveage: Music To Make Love To Your Old Lady By
Outkast - Atliens
Yesterday's New Quintet - Angles Without Edges
Sly - Small Talk

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 09:34 AM

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9. "understanding"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is very important. I think it's very dangerous to gloss over a person or a situation and make a quick categorization without first examining why that person or situation is the way it is.

if we don't take the time to listen, then we will repeat the same mistakes over and over, and the people we didn't listen to will only make more fervent attempts to be heard...I believe I remember Thich Nhat Hanh making that point in that article about what he'd say to bin Laden.

I think the main problem is people think that once you start listening that means whoever did whatever won't get punished or justice won't be served. That doesn't have to be the case. You can punish someone, fine. But if you make an attempt to understand that person before, during, and after (if possible) the punishment, you'll probably get more lasting results.

If you just eradicate the problem and then wait for the next group to come up, hoping they won't go astray, that's no good. If you don't learn from the mistakes of those you erased, you won't be in any better position to raise up the new generations because you wouldn't have learned anything.

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

"i abound with shelectricity..." ~~ursula rucker

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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Shimmy
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Wed Nov-14-01 09:39 AM

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10. "Thich"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm reading Zen Keys as we speak.

In regards to your question...

Live as an example.


Shimmy

Your life is yours to create.

I want freedom! We have got to realize that we're being conditioned on a mass scale. Start challenging this corporate slave state.

They say that dreams are only real as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?

If the world that we are forced to accept is false and nothing is true, then everything is possible.

Whatever you do, don't be bored. This is absolutely the most exciting time we could have possibly hoped to be alive. And things are just starting.

It was a gift. Life was raging all around me and every moment was magical.

Waking Life

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.†Anthony Bourdain

  

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sdhiphop
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298 posts
Thu Nov-15-01 10:23 AM

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38. "RE: Thich"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

i too, am reading 'zen keys'..i just picked it up last weekend..i actually went there looking for 'being peace' on a recommendation by a friend, and they didnt have it(being peace), so i picked up 'zen keys' instead..(i remember looking thru this book awhile back at another friends house)..its a wonderful and inspirational book..

by the way, while at the book store i ordered 'being peace' so i should have it in a couple of days..look forward to reading this book as well..

peace
sdhiphop

"imma dreadhead rappin//along with the song on dead prez track ten//perfecto!, the tightest herbivore you never heard before.."-perfecto 'dreaded funk'

========================================

“That don’t mean shit. That’s a system that those who own us use. They make us famous and give us names, ‘the king of this’, ‘the count of that’, ‘the duke of what?’ We die broke anyhow..”-Charles Mingus on music.

'you can get my duck sick'- MC Eiht

  

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k_orr
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80197 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 10:21 AM

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16. "You like Him!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


I find him wishy washy. But maybe I should finish the book first.

How a Catholic priest gonna give a sacrament to someone who ain't been baptized?

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 10:25 AM

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17. "maybe he thought he was jesus?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

i don't know...but then again he's a catholic priest...he's gross anyways.

_____________________________________________________________________________
One of my favorite quotes:

"Real recognize real. And the FAKE, they REALLY, REALLY recognize real." -c/o BlackThought

PEOPLE SUSPENDED FROM THE REVOLUTION:

Zesi
360sumsunyea

Red, Black, Green

  

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truasana
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467 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 11:34 AM

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19. "I LOVE him!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Man. I read interbeing and peace is every step. I'm in the middle of Jesus and Buddha, going home as brothers. It's the bomb. The 14 precepts are the shit! As far as your question goes, I think you answered it yourself. Considering, when you think about it, the buddhist spirit IS the revolutionary spirit. I mean in the sense that it's a religion that is based on the liberation of our own mental slavery to our attatchments and working to liberate all other sentient beings of the same. If that's not revolutionary I don't know what is. Cause, if you think about it, all of our troubles with war in the world, war within ourselves, feauds within our families and friends and whatever else are caused directly by our own mental slavery. It's the true revolutionary spirit because it is out of compassion instead of rage. Actions out of rage only result in more rage. It's OBVIOUSLY not the easiest way to live because it requires a lot of inner work. Like, it's just easier to be mad at corporate America than try to understand that not only do they not really know what they do to the working class (Cause if they did they wouldn't advocate their shit so much), but they may actually have something to what they are saying and doing too. We have to be open to such things.

I'd just like to say I love these posts. It's really nice to see some people on here into buddhism. Considering this music is something I've always seen closely linked to my spirituality. I was always surprised at first to see buddhism NOT talked about. But now it's a big surprise to see it. I love yall! Peace

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 01:53 PM

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20. "i used to post taoist scriptures and poems a while back..."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

maybe i'll start again.

_____________________________________________________________________________
How do you know Adam and Eve weren't black? ...Ever try taking a rib from a nigger?

What was missing from the million man march? ...An auctioneer

Why are niggers so strong? ...T.V.'s are getting heavier

What do you call a nigger having sex? ...Rape

What's the definition of mass confusion? ...Father's Day in Harlem

What is long and hard on a nigger? ...First Grade

What's the difference between a nigger and a bike? ...When you put chains on a bike it doesn't start singing

Why can't Stevie Wonder read? ...He's black

What's long and black? ...The unemployment line

How has Jesse Jackson lost the vote of most niggers? ...He promised to create jobs for them if elected.

What do you call a nigger in a suit? ...Defendant

What's the difference between a black man and a pizza? ...a pizza can feed a family of four.

Red, Black, Green

  

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Ximo
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351 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 02:08 PM

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21. "Can you do that..?"
In response to Reply # 20


          

At least I need some more of that vitamin..


"I went to school for 14 years and my best teacher was experience" Common

I REMEMBER HIM! -BKyle
A nice OKP memory...

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 06:13 PM

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22. "sure! the book is called 365 Tao...just so you'll know..."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

_____________________________________________________________________________
How do you know Adam and Eve weren't black? ...Ever try taking a rib from a nigger?

What was missing from the million man march? ...An auctioneer

Why are niggers so strong? ...T.V.'s are getting heavier

What do you call a nigger having sex? ...Rape

What's the definition of mass confusion? ...Father's Day in Harlem

What is long and hard on a nigger? ...First Grade

What's the difference between a nigger and a bike? ...When you put chains on a bike it doesn't start singing

Why can't Stevie Wonder read? ...He's black

What's long and black? ...The unemployment line

How has Jesse Jackson lost the vote of most niggers? ...He promised to create jobs for them if elected.

What do you call a nigger in a suit? ...Defendant

What's the difference between a black man and a pizza? ...a pizza can feed a family of four.

Red, Black, Green

  

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Sunday
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1781 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 06:46 PM

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24. "lao tzu is my hero"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          


  

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janey
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123124 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 08:11 PM

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25. "a long reply"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In a battle, the winners and the losers both lose. © The Buddha

Hatred can never cease by hatred.
Hatred can only cease by love.
This is an eternal law.
© The Buddha

The question you raise seems in some ways like a very easy one to answer. The Buddha spoke repeatedly about the five precepts:

Not to kill
Not to take that which is not freely given
Not to engage in harmful speech
Not to engage in sexual misconduct
Not to take intoxicants that cloud the mind

(see, e.g., Discourses X, 178 – 97, and VIII, 25)

What’s the first one? Don’t kill. “Abstention from the destruction of life.” Doesn’t get much simpler than that, does it?

But I don’t pretend for a minute that your question is an easy one. The whole reason that it gets raised as much as it does is precisely because it is not easy. If by killing one person, we can stop the slaughter of many, does that make it right to kill that person? Similar questions arise all along the continuum until before we know it, we’re talking in those old Christian terms about “a just war.” I’ve heard that Robert Thurman, a fairly distinguished scholar and the American translator for the Dalai Lama (and good friends with the Dalai Lama), has said something along the lines of keep it to a minimum but use force to stop further violence. (All that being said about Robert Thurman, he’s not a dharma teacher, he’s a Buddhist scholar only, and there is a real distinction) So reasonable minds can differ.

We can also see that the teachings of the Buddha can be (and have been) perverted for political purposes. I understand that in Japan during WWII there was a distinction made by the Zen Buddhist teachers between the actor and the action, so that one could take a violent action but if one’s heart was pure then there would be no negative karma attached. So, again, reasonable minds can differ.

But when we go back to the basic teachings of the Buddha, it does get very simple. And when we look at some of the truly authentic voices from our time, those who really embody the teachings, it is very simple. Not easy. But simple.

We know, of course, that the Buddha wasn’t creating “Buddhism” but rather was teaching the dharma. In other words, he wasn’t prescribing behavior, he was describing it. He taught about the nature of things – in his words “suffering and the end of suffering.” He said that “the destruction of life, bikkhus, I declare to be threefold: as caused by greed, caused by hatred, caused by delusion.” (Discourse X, 174) And he taught the way to be clear of greed, hatred and delusion. And that is what we think of as Buddhism.

The one who sees most clearly always sees with the greatest compassion. The two wings of the dharma are wisdom and compassion. Joseph Goldstein talks about seeing unskillful actions take place and responding to them as we would respond to a small child who was about to do something that would cause him or her harm. We don’t become angry, we just do all in our power, with all the love in our heart, to stop that harm from happening. And when we understand that actions have consequences, in other words, when we understand the laws of karma, then we see the harm in lashing out as much as we see the harm in being victimized.

The Dalai Lama has said that the Tibetan people don’t suffer from post-traumatic stress disorders, despite the years of incredible suffering that they have experienced, primarily because they have a pretty deep understanding of the laws of karma culturally imbedded in them.

So, then, I turn to 20th century voices to see what our modern bodhisattvas have to offer.

The Dalai Lama refers to the Chinese Army as “my friend, the enemy.” He says that of all his practices and all his teachers, the Chinese Army has been the greatest teacher of compassion for him and his clearest place for practice.

“How can you treat them with compassion?” the Dalai Lama is asked. “They have stripped the temples, they have raped women, they have robbed the culture, they have outlawed the use of the language, they have done all these things. How can you still be compassionate toward them?”

“They have taken so much,” he replied. “I cannot also let them take my mind, my peace.”

Thich Nhat Hanh is another example. You’re better versed in his writings than I am, so I’ll let you let him speak for himself, but I think you’ve really hit the nail on the head with a couple of things that you mention, not the least of which is the story of the Chinese pirates. This is a man who has watched his country be torn apart by invading forces and from within and still consistently teaches love, teaches peace.

Another modern example is that of Maha Gosananda, a Cambodian monk and nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize. He leads annual peace marches through Cambodia collecting signatures for the international petition that requests that all countries stop the production and use of land mines (Land mines make almost half the land area of Cambodia unsafe for farming or any other human use, and the country has the world’s highest percentage of people disabled through land mine explosions.) At each stop along the peace march, Maha Gosananda gives a simple dharma talk about “the necessity of removing the land mines in our hearts: Greed, hatred, delusion, as they are the source of the land mines in the ground.” In 1994, the march was caught in crossfire between government and Democratic Kampuchea soldiers, and one monk and one nun were killed and several other marchers were wounded.

And when Maha Gosananda was asked how he helped people who walked with him overcome their fear of explosions or being caught in cross fire, he said, “I tell them we will simply go together, step by step.”

“Our journey for peace begins today and every day. We shall never be discouraged. We shall walk slowly, slowly, step by step. Each step will be a prayer.”

What are the Buddhist teachings on revolution? There you have it. What is more revolutionary, more radical, than responding to hatred with lovingkindness? What is more revolutionary than stopping the war within? And look at who is teaching us these truths in this century: these voices are authentic precisely because of the suffering that hatred has caused them and the people who look to them for inspiration. Another wonderful example of this is Aung San Suu Kyi of Burma. Her life is an amazing inspiration.

But the Buddha was no fool and he wasn’t wearing rose colored glasses. He taught of the end of suffering, yes, but the first noble truth is that life is suffering. I mean, that’s how it is. And a big part of the dharma is about opening to that truth. When we believe that the point of life is sense pleasure, or comforts, then naturally we’re not willing to open to suffering. And when we are closed to suffering, when we deny the first noble truth, then we deny ourselves the natural response to that truth, which is the growth of compassion.

All meetings end in separation. All accumulation ends in dispersion. All life ends in death. Nothing is reliable. And it is when we cling to the unreliable, to the changing nature of the world, and try to make it stay still, that we cause ourselves and others great suffering and harm. Suffering arises, the Buddha said, from “association with the unloved, separation from the loved, resisting what comes to us, and holding onto what changes.”

So all that being said, it seems very clear to me that the way to bring about radical change is, as Shimmy says, to embody the dharma. Do as Thich Nhat Hanh recommends – Be peace. It’s a tough one. I’ve been practicing vipassana and metta meditation for gosh more than 15 years now, and I’m still a beginner. But no one said that I was going to become fully enlightened in this lifetime. And you know that enlightenment itself is a moment to moment experience – every moment that you “just sit, and know you’re sitting,” is a moment of enlightenment.

And the cultivation of lovingkindness, like all good spiritual practices, has benefits that aren’t immediately apparent:

One sleeps peacefully;
One sees no bad dreams;
One is dear to human beings;
One is dear to non-human beings;
One will be protected by devas (celestial creatures);
Fire, poison and weapons (external dangers) cannot injure one;
One’s mind becomes easily concentrated;
One’s facial complexion will be serene;
One will die unconfused; and
If one does not penetrate higher, one will be reborn in the Brahma-world (happy realms). (XI, 16)

I’ve spoken before about developing the compassionate heart, but I think that it’s not without merit to mention some of it again. In addition, I want to add a word or two about karma. I’m going to put these in separate posts, though.


(Citations are to the Numerical Discourses of the Buddha, translation by Nyanaponika Thera and Bhikkhu Bodhi)



Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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Utamaroho
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Thu Nov-15-01 04:26 AM

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29. "it could all be so simple..."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>>it is very simple. Not easy. But simple.

But you'd rather make it hard...

Not easy. But simple.

Loving you is like a battle
And we both end up with scars

>>In a battle, the winners and the losers both lose. © The Buddha

Tell me, who I have to be
To get some reciprocity

>>The one who sees most clearly always sees with the greatest compassion. The two wings of the dharma are wisdom and compassion.

just a little part of the song that i thought about when reading through all of this...



_____________________________________________________________________________
How do you know Adam and Eve weren't black? ...Ever try taking a rib from a nigger?

What was missing from the million man march? ...An auctioneer

Why are niggers so strong? ...T.V.'s are getting heavier

What do you call a nigger having sex? ...Rape

What's the definition of mass confusion? ...Father's Day in Harlem

What is long and hard on a nigger? ...First Grade

What's the difference between a nigger and a bike? ...When you put chains on a bike it doesn't start singing

Why can't Stevie Wonder read? ...He's black

What's long and black? ...The unemployment line

How has Jesse Jackson lost the vote of most niggers? ...He promised to create jobs for them if elected.

What do you call a nigger in a suit? ...Defendant

What's the difference between a black man and a pizza? ...a pizza can feed a family of four.

Red, Black, Green

  

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360sunsumyea
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Thu Nov-15-01 06:15 AM

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31. "RE: a long reply"
In response to Reply # 25


          

>All meetings end in separation.
>All accumulation ends in dispersion.
> All life ends in
>death. Nothing is reliable.
> And it is when
>we cling to the unreliable,
>to the changing nature of
>the world, and try to
>make it stay still, that
>we cause ourselves and others
>great suffering and harm.
>Suffering arises, the Buddha said,
>from “association with the unloved,
>separation from the loved, resisting
>what comes to us, and
>holding onto what changes.”


hard lesson for me. learning how very little i control. wanting to 'hold' onto a certain person or an idea an make it mine forever. wanting change only when i inititate it. i've found that as much as i want to make my world stay still so i can understand and control it, keeping myself still is the hardest thing. but those rare moments when i can be still and see everything around me, just take it in as being what 'is', those moments bring on a peace and clarity that my controlling nature never seems to find.

**********THE SIG**********

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

  

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Shimmy
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Thu Nov-15-01 09:22 AM

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34. "that right there"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

is mindfulness.

Ding.
Keep on keepin' on.

Shimmy


“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.†Anthony Bourdain

  

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janey
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Wed Nov-14-01 08:12 PM

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26. "Lovingkindness"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This is what should be done
By those who are skilled in goodness,
And who know the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech.
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied.
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful,
Not proud and demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: in gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease.
Whatever living beings there may be;
Whether they are weak or strong, omitting none,
The great or the mighty, medium, short or small,
The seen and the unseen,
Those living near and far away,
Those born and to-be-born –
May all beings be at ease!
Let none deceive another,
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings;
Radiating kindness over the entire world:
Spreading upward to the skies,
And downward to the depths;
Outward and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down,
Free from drowsiness,
One should sustain this recollection.
This is said to be the sublime abiding.
By not holding to fixed views,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Bring freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world.

© The Buddha (The Metta Sutta)



Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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janey
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Wed Nov-14-01 08:14 PM

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27. "Developing the compassionate heart"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Compassion allows us to bear witness to the suffering in the world, whether it is in ourselves or others, without fear; it allows us to name injustice without hesitation and to act strongly, with all the skill at our disposal. To develop this mind state of compassion is to learn to live, as the Buddha put it, with sympathy for all living beings, without exception.

Sharon Salzberg writes in her book “Lovingkindness: The Revolutionary Art of Happiness”:

The first step in developing true compassion is being able to recognize, to open to, and to acknowledge that pain and sorrow exist. Everywhere, absolutely everywhere, in one way or another, beings are suffering. Some suffering is intense and terrible; some is quiet and small….

While suffering is not all there is in life, it is a thread that needs to be recognized clearly if we are to develop true compassion.

If we look at our own experience, it comes as no big surprise that suffering exists. We have our ups and downs, we have pain or loss or sorrow, times when we do not get what we want, or do get what we want but it goes away or proves to be not what we wanted after all. We all experience this pattern. Because we know this experience as real, not receiving external confirmation of our perception is actually far more painful than a frank acknowledgment would be. …

More difficult than acknowledging pain, however, is opening to it. This is the second step in developing compassion: opening to pain and establishing an appropriate relationship to it. In order to genuinely open to pain, we may have to do so a little bit at a time. If our opening is forced or contrived, our sense of purpose may shatter.

Sometimes, when we begin to open to suffering, we displace it, so that even though we see it, we also have the sense of being able to control it, as if we could turn it off and on. This tendency to displace may be why people can so avidly read about violence in newspapers or magazines or watch it constantly in movies or on TV. We look at tragedy with the hope that we can control it by turning the dial.

When we do not feel in control, very often we feel righteous anger, fear, or grief. In Buddhist psychology, these are known as compassion’s near enemies, because they may disguise themselves as compassion.

The state of compassion as the trembling of the heart arises with a quality of equanimity. Can you imagine a mind state in which there is no bitter, condemning judgment of oneself or of others? This mind does not see the world in terms of good and bad, right and wrong, good and evil; it sees only “suffering and the end of suffering.” What would happen if we looked at ourselves and all of the different things that we see and did not judge any of it? We would see that some things bring pain and others bring happiness, but there would be no denunciation, no guilt, no shame, no fear. How wondrous to see ourselves, others, and the world in that way! When we see only suffering and the end of suffeing, then we feel compassion. Then we can act in energetic and forceful ways but wihotu the corrosive effects of aversion.

Compassion can lead to very forceful action without any anger or aversion in it. When we see a small child reaching toward a hot burner on a stove. We instantly take action. Our response is born out of the compassion we feel: We move to pull the child back, away from harm. We do not reject or condemn the child.

To be compassionate is to wish that a being or all beings be free from pain. To be compassionate is to sense from within what it must be like to experience someone else’s experience.


Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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Utamaroho
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Thu Nov-15-01 04:47 AM

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30. "RE: Developing the compassionate heart"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

some things i think about:

i've evolved from trying to cnvince people of the bhuddist way. i can live with the fact that some people aer going to exist in suffering no matter what...simply because they want to. the hard part is seeing people suffering and presenting a solution in whatever "package" it may be...and them seeing it as a solution and not using it.

also. i don't see those that oppose what i'm doing as enemies, moreso variables that i simply have to deal with, it's that easy. i attach no right or wrong to their actions. and no right or wrong labels to my REaction. i just flow with the issue. my issue the becomes whether i am going to proactively seek out those entities and try to nuetralize them BEFORE they get to me, or do my thinkg ad let them step into my space and get dealt with... do i let people step up and challenge my way only to get dismissed after finding out my foundation is stable. or do i seek out "evil" and try to turn it around? e.g. someone leading people in the wrong direction for personal interest and distorting the truth to do so. *cough* kweisi mfume *cough* creflo dollar *cough* i can live with suffereing, be awaer of it and change it...but there are some forces out there that seem bent on destroying people. the revolutionary spirit that interacts with "others" doesn't rest easy in watching this happen. internally i think i can have it all in chack, but when seeing these people led astry, i can't help but want to take up the responsibility to battle lies...

what i COULD do, is preach the truth an d lay in wait for those who would attack it...then they'd come to me and get straightened out. i just think it'd more effective right now to go out and challenge those entities toe to toe. like i said above, i can deal with people hurting themselves and just give myself up to help, but the "source" of those pains is what i want to contest...those ideologies that keep peopl enslaved to continual suffering.

Red, Black, Green

  

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Shimmy
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Thu Nov-15-01 09:26 AM

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36. "must you"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

fix and defend???

Shimmy


“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.†Anthony Bourdain

  

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janey
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Thu Nov-15-01 08:36 PM

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41. "don't forget"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

When the Buddha talked about attachment, he mentioned these specifically:

Attachment to sense pleasures
Attachment to views and opinions
Attachment to rites and rituals.

The Buddha did not teach Buddhism, nor did he try to convert anyone. But if you want to lead, lead by example, not by words.

I can't remember what country it was that this story is about and I hate that. I hate paraphrasing. But the way that one of the major Buddhist countries was converted was that there was this king who was unifying the country by waging war with all the feudal lords and so forth, and at one point during one of these battles, a Buddhist monk walked across the battlefield. The king saw him and was struck by the simplicity of the man and the contentedness, the fearlessness and the serenity, and he wondered what it was that brought this about. So he spoke to the monk and learned that he was a Buddhist, and the king started to look into Buddhism and the next thing you know he converted and brought the country with him. What country was this? I can't remember now.

But the point is that you could be that monk. And get it that the monk wasn't preaching. And he wasn't going around shouting that he knew the truth. All he did was live the dharma. That's it.

You know, if people ask, it's one thing. But you just can't talk to anyone about something that they're not ready to hear or the form isn't the right one for them or whatever. And if they're not hearing you, then look at the way you're communicating. Maybe it's faulty. Because we know that the dharma isn't faulty. It simply and accurately describes experience. So maybe the problem isn't the ideas being conveyed, maybe it's the way they are being conveyed.

And don't you make the mistake of getting attached to the specific form of Buddhism (or any religion or moral principle) that you like the best. That's attachment to rites and rituals. Or what Trungpa Rinpoche called "spiritual materialism." You can be a good Buddhist and a good Jew simultaneously. Or a good Buddhist and a good Christian. Don't believe me? Read The Cloud of Unknowing, written by a 13th century anonymous Christian mystic. Read anything by St. John of the Cross. Read a little Sylvia Boorstein. Read a little Shimmy. We would all do better to read a little more Shimmy.

Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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360sunsumyea
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Fri Nov-16-01 06:33 AM

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42. "exactamundo..."
In response to Reply # 41


          

>You know, if people ask, it's
>one thing. But you
>just can't talk to anyone
>about something that they're not
>ready to hear or the
>form isn't the right one
>for them or whatever.
>And if they're not hearing
>you, then look at the
>way you're communicating. Maybe
>it's faulty. Because we
>know that the dharma isn't
>faulty. It simply and
>accurately describes experience. So
>maybe the problem isn't the
>ideas being conveyed, maybe it's
>the way they are being
>conveyed.

i couldn't agree with this more. sometimes we forget the process that we went through to come into the mindstate we are at. and because our lives have been changed and we feel so enlightened we have an urgency for other people to get where we are. there are different perspectives and informtion that i have been opened up to in the past few years that i would have straight up laughed at had it been introduced to me in high school or right after. and the strongest influences weren't speakers or leaders but people who i observed living and thinking in a way that was new to me, but at the same time, just 'made sense'. essentially, i came to them with questions WANTING to know. and even then, those people were hesitant about giving me across the board answers. it was more, 'he's what i do, but you have to seek and find for yourself'.

BE the change.

**********THE SIG**********

"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness, and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy or they become legends."
-One Stab 'Legends of the Fall'

  

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Shimmy
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Sun Nov-18-01 09:34 AM

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48. "mwuah"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Right back at ya babe!

Shimmy


“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.†Anthony Bourdain

  

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yinka

Thu Nov-15-01 06:22 AM

  
32. "RE: (J)ust (A)(N)other Qu(E)r(Y)"
In response to Reply # 0


          


>
>anyways the questions again:
>
>how does buddhism interact with the
>revolutionary spirit? specifically, how it
>deals with those forces that
>are in DIRECT OPPOSITION to
>peace and harmony. how does
>one react to an individual
>like that? an institution like
>that?


sometimes the most compassionate and loving thing one can do for someone is put a bullet in the head of the person standing on their neck.


  

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Utamaroho
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Thu Nov-15-01 06:45 AM

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33. "ok Mara..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

_____________________________________________________________________________
How do you know Adam and Eve weren't black? ...Ever try taking a rib from a nigger?

What was missing from the million man march? ...An auctioneer

Why are niggers so strong? ...T.V.'s are getting heavier

What do you call a nigger having sex? ...Rape

What's the definition of mass confusion? ...Father's Day in Harlem

What is long and hard on a nigger? ...First Grade

What's the difference between a nigger and a bike? ...When you put chains on a bike it doesn't start singing

Why can't Stevie Wonder read? ...He's black

What's long and black? ...The unemployment line

How has Jesse Jackson lost the vote of most niggers? ...He promised to create jobs for them if elected.

What do you call a nigger in a suit? ...Defendant

What's the difference between a black man and a pizza? ...a pizza can feed a family of four.

Red, Black, Green

  

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yinka

Thu Nov-15-01 09:26 AM

  
35. "you think i jest"
In response to Reply # 33


          

but it's real. a moment, a situation, an era might call for making extreme sacrifices in the name of peace. there's a balance that comes from being able to make such sacrifices while still holding a view of the future.

just think of it as a particular stage in human evolvement and recognize that certain things need to be done to move us forward. you can look at growth and development in any aspect of nature to get examples of that. peace of mind comes from being clear that it is a process and making attempts for the process to cause as little disfunction as possible. but be ready when the disfunction comes.

this you figure out as much as throwing yourself into the process as from gleaning info from someone who chooses to write about theirs (an endeavor that smacks of more than a little egoism, but such are the paradoxes of buddhism.) you'd be surprised what a little experience can do. answers to esoteric questions come thundering at you with a clarity unmatched by endless sideline pondering.

sometimes.

  

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Utamaroho
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Thu Nov-15-01 09:41 AM

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37. "i was joking with you."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

_____________________________________________________________________________
i'm the greatest thing that ever happened to okayplayer! ever! fuck all of you. i was better at birth than most of you will ever be in your entire lives. when you realize i'm your personal god and savior, then maybe you'll get better. till then...DO BETTER!

The rest of 2001 is Muhammed Ali appreciation year!

_____________________________________________________________________________
How do you know Adam and Eve weren't black? ...Ever try taking a rib from a nigger?

What was missing from the million man march? ...An auctioneer

Why are niggers so strong? ...T.V.'s are getting heavier

What do you call a nigger having sex? ...Rape

What's the definition of mass confusion? ...Father's Day in Harlem

What is long and hard on a nigger? ...First Grade

What's the difference between a nigger and a bike? ...When you put chains on a bike it doesn't start singing

Why can't Stevie Wonder read? ...He's black

What's long and black? ...The unemployment line

How has Jesse Jackson lost the vote of most niggers? ...He promised to create jobs for them if elected.

What do you call a nigger in a suit? ...Defendant

What's the difference between a black man and a pizza? ...a pizza can feed a family of four.

Red, Black, Green

  

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alek
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Thu Nov-15-01 10:28 AM

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39. "but..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

>reading this book "Being Peace" is
>making me rethink this "fiery
>sword" thing.

...I was looking forward to being smote!

What am I going to do now?

Alek
______________________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What?! What?!

____________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What? What?

  

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janey
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Thu Nov-15-01 08:11 PM

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40. "The Relationship of Practice and World Peace"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Well, I was going to write today a little bit about karma, and I may yet, but I realized that I have these notes from a talk by Joseph Goldstein about the relationship of our practice to world peace, and it seems timely and important to transcribe them here.

When we look around us, we can see tremendous suffering in the world. Poverty, injustice, intolerance, war, disease. We don’t have to look far at all. Suffering is obvious. What are the causes out of which this suffering arises? If we want to understand how to bring about world peace, we first have to know what undermines is and what is the cause of suffering.

The Buddha spoke of three root causes, three factors of mind, which drive us to cause harm by exploiting others or expanding ourselves at the expense of others.

The first factor of mind is craving. Desire in the mind. The condition of always wanting more, of never being satisfied. The opposite of contentment. The relationship between greed and causing others suffering is pretty obvious.

So what causes greed or craving? Feelings are the cause and condition of craving. In Buddhism, “feelings” has a pretty specific meaning – it means the qualities of “pleasant,” “unpleasant” or “neutral.”

How do feelings create craving?

When we experience pleasant feelings, we want more, we want to hold onto what we have, or we want something we don’t have. When we experience unpleasant feelings, we want to get rid of them, or trade them for pleasant feelings, which is another aspect of craving. Neutral feelings, too, condition craving. Either we want more intense pleasurable feelings or, and this gets pretty subtle, we crave the neutrality so when a neutral feeling arises we cling to it.

The second factor of mind that causes suffering is that of “wrong view,” specifically the idea that there is an “I” that is separate from other beings and is a permanent self. This is a deeply conditioned factor of mind and one that we all have very strongly.

And when the idea of self is very strong, we believe we must advance it, protect it. You can see how this could cause tremendous suffering.

Just as feelings are the cause and condition of craving, perception is the cause and condition of wrong view. “Perception” in Buddhism has the characteristic of recognizing different objects by distinguishing aspects of appearance, leading us to wrong view and an idea of a separate self. When perception is very strong, it obscures the true nature of phenomena.

Example: When Shimmy twirls fire, what do we see? A circle of fire. But if you look closely you see that the fire is only at one point in the circle at any point in time. It is our perception that has created one solid entity – “circle” – out of changing phenomena.

Another example: When we’re sitting in meditation (or any time, really) and we experience pain, perception says, “Knee pain” or “shoulder pain.” But when we look really closely, the pain is a set of sensations that is changing pretty much constantly. It’s perception that conceptualizes the sensations and names the knee or the shoulder. Or the self.

So perception leads to wrong view.

The third factor of mind is the factor of conceit. This is the factor that compares oneself with others. The tendency to judge and compare is a very strong force in the mind. This becomes quite clear on retreat, when we can get very precise about what is happening in the mind because there we are subject to less external stimuli.

And the cause and condition of conceit is thought. All the thoughts about “me” condition the sense of superiority or inferiority. How many unskillful actions between individuals and between societies arise out of this comparing?

UPROOTING THE THREE FACTORS

So, craving, wrong view and conceit are the three factors that condition the mind to exploit. How can we uproot these factors? All factors of the mind, wholesome or unwholesome, skillful or unskillful, influence how we behave as individuals, as communities, as societies. So we want to uproot those factors that lead to suffering.

When we are mindful, then we are going from the level of concepts or ideas to the direct experience of reality. In this moment, perception does not overshadow mindfulness and we don’t get caught in concepts. Instead, we begin to have a clear experience of our true nature, just as we are.

The direct experience of the body – as a constellation of sensations. Every time we notice a sensation and note it, we increase our wisdom. Because we cut through concepts and see that there is nothing solid, nothing that doesn’t change.

This is not an insignificant moment.

In this moment, we are deconditioning wrong view and craving.

We experience the nature of the mind, the nature of the body, the arising of the consciousness of each new object (consciousness of seeing, of hearing, of tasting, etcetera), and we begin to see that consciousness itself is arising and passing away. There isn’t a single knower, one observer. Instead, mind arises anew with each object.

We see all the mental factors arising. And when perception overshadows mindfulness, we take those factors to be “me.” “My sadness,” “my happiness,” “I’m depressed,” “I’m angry.”

When mindfulness is there, we begin to understand that mental states, like the physical states, are constantly changing, that there is nothing static, but simply a constellation of continually changing elements.

Another example: The Big Dipper. Almost all of us can recognize the Big Dipper. It’s kind of comforting to be able to see it all the time and to know that you can find north using it and all that. But you know, there is no Big Dipper. Big Dipper is a concept that we have overlaid on top of a random group of stars. So we know that. But now try to go outside and look at the night sky and NOT see Big Dipper. It’s really hard to do. Almost impossible.

And if it’s that hard not to see Big Dipper, how hard must it be to not see “I”? It is a deeply conditioned perception.

As mindfulness deepens, we begin to see that all elements of the mind and body are interrelated; we see how they are connected. And one great relationship is that of cause and effect.

We see that the movement of the body causes the mind to notice it. And we see that intention is cause, movement is effect. Movement is cause, awareness is effect. It all unfolds lawfully.

As we notice the mind and body, we refine our awareness of the arising and passing away of experience. Thoughts, feelings, images, sensations are momentary. Seeing this operates to remove conceit. As insight into impermanence deepens, we gain a deepening understanding of the unsatisfactoriness or suffering that is the basis of the first noble truth. We have this idea that if we had this or did that we would be happy, yet deep down we know that there is nothing that can satisfy permanently. If there were, we wouldn’t be making this inquiry now.

As we understand this on a deeper and deeper level, it has the wonderful effect of freeing the mind from craving. Because we know that craving can’t be satisfied. It does not fulfill its promise.

We see over and over again that conditions arise according to their own laws, not our control. Can we sit in meditation and say, “thoughts – don’t come; bliss, fill me; pain, go away”? No. And it is through this that we get a deeper understanding of anatta – selflessness. And that causes wrong view to subside.

So when conceit and craving and wrong view have subsided, when we are free from these factors, we come to a place of peace in ourselves. Our relationships become a situation of peace.

You might think, that’s fine for us and maybe it’s fine for the people around us, but what effect does this have in the world?

Have you heard the story of the hundredth monkey? This is a true story. A group of monkeys living on an island in Japan, and there were wild potatoes that grew on the shore. And the monkeys would start to eat the potatoes but they wouldn’t continue because they didn’t like the sand. And then the younger monkeys started to wash the potatoes and then they could eat them. So the young monkeys started to teach the other monkeys and the other monkeys started to wash potatoes. The number of monkeys that washed potatoes grew and grew until there were 99 monkeys washing potatoes. And then one day the hundredth monkey starting washing his potatoes. And on that day it was noticed that monkeys on distant islands began washing their potatoes. So that at some point, at the collective monkey consciousness began to spread without direct contact.

Well, you may be the hundredth yogi. The hundredth practitioner of peace. You could be the cause and condition of peace to arise in the world. Because we don’t just practice for ourselves. As we free our minds from craving and wrong view and conceit; when we reduce this tendency of mind to expand and grab and take and exploit; when we can purify our own minds of these tendencies, we establish peace in ourselves and it becomes a force of peace in the world.

So every moment of mindfulness is extremely important. Because every moment of mindfulness is actually doing this work of purification.



Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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lionesslocks10
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Fri Nov-16-01 07:23 AM

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44. "RE: The Relationship of Practice and World Peace"
In response to Reply # 40


          

Does mindfulness mean that one does not experience feelings such as anger, resentment and fear or is it that these feelings (or perceptions) are veiwed differently and therefore tempered. I'm just wondering if Buddhists or anyone who practices mindfulness are still conscious of these feelings as they arise or does enlightenment mean that they are free from ever feeling those things again.

  

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janey
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Fri Nov-16-01 09:22 AM

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45. "emotions"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

Emotions still arise. It's just that there is a different relationship to them, as you say.

It's the difference between being lost in thought and being aware that we're thinking.

The thing with mindfulness is that, absent mindfulness, we cling to pleasant experiences, push away unpleasant experiences and space out during neutral experiences. With mindfulness we see the experiences as they are, without superimposing other stuff on top, like the clinging, the pushing away or the spacing out. Which means that we are MORE alive and more able to experience this moment.

But also don't think that because I can talk about this I am somehow enlightened. I've studied for a long time and I've practiced for a relatively long time, and I have moments of clarity, but I am still working at it. I know people who really embody it, though, and they tell me that the moments of clarity get more frequent with time. And I have also changed a lot in my life recently with the idea that I will have more time for clear practice. Sorry, just had to add that caveat.

I have a wonderful short piece on emotions that I'll get to you soon.

Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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Utamaroho
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Fri Nov-16-01 09:31 AM

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46. "i hope they get more frequent..."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

i am recently able to see myself interacting with those emotions and not trying to wrestle with them "on the fly". it's like i can step back and see myself and notice what is going on.

still doesn't help with how those thoughts steer my actions when dealing w/ others, but i can deal with myself pretty well. if only i were the last man on earth...

*hope i don't wake all alone like some 'ol Twilight Zone episode.*

Red, Black, Green

  

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janey
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Fri Nov-16-01 09:35 AM

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47. "Or as Linus said"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

"I love mankind -- it's people I can't stand."

Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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emil
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Mon Nov-19-01 08:31 AM

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49. "thanksyall"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i'll pick up some of his work today.

i mean...dude, like, f'real...
http://www.anacostiaws.org
http://www.earthfirstjournal.org/


  

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janey
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Mon Nov-19-01 09:12 AM

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50. "more information"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This is from the Spirit Rock website. Spirit Rock is one of the pre-eminent sites for Buddhist teachings from all traditions -- they regularly host visits from venerated international teachers, and they were formed out of the association with Joseph Goldstein, Sharon Salzberg and Jack Kornfield at Insight Meditation Society.

The letter itself was written by James Baraz, who is a senior teacher at Spirit Rock.


Dear Friends,

I hope you are all doing as well as can be expected in this difficult time both within yourself and in your Dharma Practice. Since a number of Dharma friends have been looking for guidance regarding the right way for Buddhists to respond to what's going on I thought I'd point you to an article called "The Terror Koan: American Buddhists Contemplate Violence" by Lawrence Pintak. It contains thoughts from a number of leading teachers including Joseph Goldstein, Sharon Salzberg, Robert Thurman, Gelek Rinpoche and others wrestling with a wise response to terrorism. It may be helpful if you are trying to sort out the "right Buddhist answer". It can be found by going to www.beliefnet.com, then clicking on Buddhism, then "when violent action is justified". This article was written before Sunday's bombings began. The same site has an article by Thich Nhat Hanh "What I would say to Osama bin Laden".

Another website with excellent articles is www.bodydharma.org/choices. Recommended articles include Seth Castleman's letter from ground zero, Sulak Sivaraksa's "Buddhism and Nonviolence" and Ven. Thanissaro's "Non-violence: A Study Guide".

I also want to share a poem I've been finding very useful and reading to groups in the last few weeks:

There is a brokenness out of which comes the unbroken,
A shatteredness out of which blooms the unshatterable.
There is a sorrow beyond all grief which leads to joy
And a fragility out of whose depths emerges strength.
There is a hollow space too vast for words
Through which we pass with each loss,
Out of whose darkness we are sanctioned into being.
There is a cry deeper than all sound
Whose serrated edges cut the heart as we break open
To the place inside which is unbreakable and whole,
While learning to sing.

- Rashani

I wish you peace and balance.

Love,
James

~~~~

Speaking of Seth Castleman, I do strongly recommend his article. He just spoke at my sangha last night and he is a remarkable teacher. His stories from Ground Zero are tremendously moving. In addition, he has been working in prisons for a number of years, teaching meditation as an anger and stress management program. Hearing him talk about the kinds of change that can be made through such a simple teaching is awe-inspiring. He does the work at several prisons across the country, a women's prison here in California, and with the Youth Authority in New York.

I could keep raving, but I'll stop now. But I encourage you to read all the articles.





Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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janey
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123124 posts
Mon Nov-19-01 09:14 AM

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51. "www.bodydharma"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

The link above captures the period and so doesn't work. Try this:

www.bodydharma.org/choices


Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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janey
Charter member
123124 posts
Thu Nov-29-01 11:36 AM

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52. "up for bboy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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janey
Charter member
123124 posts
Fri Dec-07-01 05:09 PM

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53. "Karma"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

A final note to wrap things up on this thread. Or perhaps not, but in any event, I've been saying all along that I wanted to write a word or two about karma so here goes.

Usually we in the West hear the word "karma" and think of it like punishment for earlier crimes. Like someone dies violently and we say, "Oh, they must have killed someone in another life." And while that MAY be true, it's a lot more complicated than that and usually that analysis isn't helpful, really.

The more immediate part of the teachings on karma are much simpler and far less crime/punishment good deed/reward praise/blame oriented. Karma in practice (as opposed to karma in theory) is simply this:

Actions have consequences.

When we understand that each of our actions has consequences we begin to take responsibility for our own lives. We stop saying things like, "It doesn't matter," or "it was only a joke." We start to really closely examine the fruits of our work. Even a small act has far reaching consequences. Seeds are small, too, but they can grow into large trees.

This is true on a micro level -- with each of us as individuals -- and on a macro level -- with societies, with the environment. The better we understand that even our smallest acts reverberate and have repurcussions that we can't know now, the more likely we are to act consciously and mindfully.

As this understanding grows, we begin to develop a strong and compelling interest in what we are doing with our lives and the choices that we make. And on a moment to moment level, this understanding helps us increase our awareness and ultimately to transform our lives.

The single most important aspect of any act -- the aspect that determines its karmic weight -- is the motivation behind that act. Joseph Goldstein often says, "Everything rests on the tip of motivation."

On the links I noted above, there are several good articles about clarity of motivation, and they're worth reading. Because there is a very deep connection between the understanding of the law of cause and effect and the brahma viharas, which are lovingkindness, sympathetic joy, compassion and equanimity.

Each of our actions is like a seed that bears fruit. One action is the cause and condition of many consequences. And all beings have three volitions -- body, speech and mind -- as the seeds of becoming.

The Buddha spoke of the ten unwholesome actions, and separated them into three categories:

Unwholesome actions of body:
-- killing
-- taking that which is not freely given
-- committing sexual misconduct

Unwholesome actions of speech:
-- saying that which is not true
-- using harsh or angry speech
-- gossiping
-- engaging in frivolous or useless talk

Unwholesome actions of the mind:
-- desire, or attachment
-- harboring ill will or aversion
-- holding "wrong view" (a complicated Buddhist notion that includes not paying attention to the consequences of actions, getting attached to the idea of a self, and so forth).

So if the three volitions -- body, speech and mind -- are the ground for the genesis of our actions, and our actions have consequences, we can see from the list above just how much potential there is for negative consequences to occur from our actions. Taking any of these unwholesome actions will be the cause and condition of consequences that we may not wish to occur.

But again, it's a relatively simple rule to keep in mind. Actions have consequences. What we do really does matter. The universe unfolds lawfully, and the law of cause and effect is itself a cause and condition both of a transformation of our own lives, and also of a great peace or equanimity about situations in which we find ourselves at times.

So that's what I have to say tonight about karma.

Peace.

May all beings be free from suffering.

May the merit of my meditation and any good acts I undertake be dedicated to the happiness and liberation of all beings.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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