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Subject: "SISTAHS CONFERENCE" This topic is locked.
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ya Setshego
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4259 posts
Thu Feb-27-03 01:10 PM

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"SISTAHS CONFERENCE"


  

          

Seriously. Brothahs, we love y'all, but please allow us to have this meeting by ourselves. Whitefolk, what can I say? You are just not invited this time. We'll vibe w/ you on the other threads. Let me be clear about what I am defining as a Sistah: an Afrikan female. PERIOD. It does not matter WHERE you are in the world. If you are of (African)Afrikan descent, and the XX genotype, please join us in this discussion. You're input is welcomed. Before the smart-asses reply, no, I am not talking about Latina, Asians, AND even white women, since we ALL descend from the common gene of Eve, who came from KMT.

Sistahs, IF this request is not honored by our fellow Activists, do me a favor and DO NOT REPLY TO THEIR MESSAGES WITHIN THIS THREAD. This is intended to be a dialogue amongst us, and us only. Please, let us respect ourselves enough to not let nay-sayers detract us from this, nor anyone else who might just feel left out.

Anyway. Now that that the groundwork has been laid, let me write that the idea for this thread came from the "Wanna Be Malcolm's" thread, because it seemed to be turning into a Sistah's Conference towards the end. So why not really have one, right here, right now?

TOPICS: Pretty much anything you want. What's on your minds, ActivistSistahs? I'll start off by offering this Newsweek article up for discussion, which continues along the lines of the discussion we were having in the "Malcolm's" thread:


http://www.msnbc.com/news/875614.asp?#BODY

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I have not read this one yet
Feb 27th 2003
1
This one too.
Feb 27th 2003
2
RE: This one too.
Feb 27th 2003
3
      Greetings.
Feb 27th 2003
4
      EDUCATION
Feb 28th 2003
32
           I can dig it
Feb 28th 2003
37
      RE: This one too.
Feb 28th 2003
46
the newsweek article
Feb 27th 2003
7
      could it be that
Feb 27th 2003
8
      I vote
Feb 28th 2003
12
      I definitely feel a sense of entitlement
Feb 28th 2003
15
      Hey
Feb 28th 2003
16
           black man will probably be president first
Feb 28th 2003
19
      Read
Feb 28th 2003
11
      Sista's PLEASE READ!!!!
Feb 28th 2003
39
           A local
Feb 28th 2003
40
registers into conference....
Feb 27th 2003
5
signs up for conference...
Feb 27th 2003
6
Hmmmmm...
Feb 28th 2003
13
Hold up
Feb 28th 2003
9
Yes,
Feb 28th 2003
14
      gotcha
Feb 28th 2003
20
RE: SISTAHS CONFERENCE
Feb 28th 2003
10
so i finally read the article.
Feb 28th 2003
17
I'm witchu on THAT.
Feb 28th 2003
21
Let's create a singles line for ex-offenders!! Grrrreat
Feb 28th 2003
22
Damn good points and questions
Feb 28th 2003
28
      RE: Damn good points and questions
Mar 01st 2003
47
           RE: Damn good points and questions
Mar 01st 2003
49
                Speak(write) the TRUTH!
Mar 02nd 2003
59
great topic :)
Feb 28th 2003
18
Topic # 2: Hair
Feb 28th 2003
23
RE: SISTAHS CONFERENCE
Feb 28th 2003
24
shuddup
Feb 28th 2003
29
      RE
Feb 28th 2003
31
           Let us have a review
Feb 28th 2003
34
                why repeat yourself??
Feb 28th 2003
41
                     I really
Feb 28th 2003
42
my long response
Feb 28th 2003
25
No
Feb 28th 2003
33
so...
Feb 28th 2003
35
      No WAY
Feb 28th 2003
36
RE: my long response
Mar 01st 2003
48
TOPIC: The Black Mother/Daughter vs. Son Relationship
Feb 28th 2003
26
What is that?
Feb 28th 2003
27
      One of the best films I ever saw:
Feb 28th 2003
30
           I don't know
Feb 28th 2003
38
had to dig up my girl June Jordan
Feb 28th 2003
43
thanks for that post!!
Feb 28th 2003
44
Thanks for posting this.
Feb 28th 2003
45
Personal Freedom
Mar 01st 2003
50
readin your words always inspires me
Mar 01st 2003
51
Another Negative Perception
Mar 01st 2003
52
RE: Another Negative Perception
Mar 01st 2003
53
RE: Another Negative Perception
Mar 01st 2003
54
Yes
Mar 02nd 2003
55
      'tis my motto
Mar 02nd 2003
56
      I feel you on that.
Mar 02nd 2003
60
Question:
Mar 02nd 2003
57
RE: Queen Afua
Mar 02nd 2003
61
Idea
Mar 02nd 2003
58
Carole Mosely Braun
Mar 02nd 2003
62
RE: SISTAHS Panel on NPR Last Night
Mar 03rd 2003
63
RE: SISTAHS CONFERENCE
Mar 04th 2003
64
up!
Mar 05th 2003
65

ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Thu Feb-27-03 01:14 PM

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1. "I have not read this one yet"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but I'll print it off, read it, and we can incorporate it into the discussion also:

http://www.msnbc.com/m/nw/talk/archive.asp?lt=022503_cose

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Thu Feb-27-03 01:27 PM

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2. "This one too."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

http://www.msnbc.com/news/876198.asp


Is that Foxy? I cannot BELIEVE they put her in this roundtable. They already HAD Beyonce. You mean to tell me Erykah, Jill, NOR India were available to fill this spot?!?!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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camil
Charter member
644 posts
Thu Feb-27-03 01:49 PM

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3. "RE: This one too."
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Feb-27-03 01:50 PM

          

sup sista souljah!

im cooling, from chi! is the revolution personal or do we come to it as a community? i feel the sistas will play the main role in what will be the rev. not discrediting brothers, but i think, the sisters, upon getting ourselves together spiritually and mentally, and coming together in solidarity, will carry our weak and weary brothers who have the "fuck bitches get money attitude." and not to turn this into a sexist type question/statement, but what should we as sisters, facing the world, be concentrating on to better our situation as a people?




mellow


  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Thu Feb-27-03 02:48 PM

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4. "Greetings."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

I would say education. Education is the one thing we can get as a people, that cannot be taken away from us once we attain it. That is why it was so critical to not allow a slave to read. Through knowledge, comes a liberation all its own, regardless of what jobs they will and will not let us get, or the lower salaries they may pay us. That knowledge, once attained, can be passed down to the youth, and perpetuated. I think education is the key to strong nation-building in our community.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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strezzed
Charter member
6529 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 09:30 AM

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32. "EDUCATION"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Yes education is #1, especially political education.

But it is a shame that nowadays a lot of black kids feel at odds with the current school system. From racist or ignorant teachers, to subject matter that does not recognize our culture, to the overwhelming amount of black kids being placed wrongfully in special ed, to white women teachers and how they deal with black male students, to lack of funding in schools where there is a majority fo black students.

Even as a child growing up in the suburbs I felt alienated, especially when I was in tehe higher level classes and was on of the few black kids in the class. The teacher would use me as a "representative" and spokesperson for all black folks when we talked about race issues. "Oh you don't know *insert random blakc person*" Me: " No let me break out my Black rolodex that lists all of the Black people in the world...shit I am trying to learn just like everyone else." That is a lot of pressure,lol.

bell hooks speaks on this in Teaching to Transgress which is a damn good book.

Even now in school as an english major I often feel isolated and ignored in the subjects that I study. How many times can I read about a white man describing and idolizing the English countryside? His woman (which I know does not look a thing like me)? His government (whcih oppressed my people)? You only get that 3 credit requirement of a "Minority or Women's" Literature. That off the top tells me that you value one culture above another.


"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 10:15 AM

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37. "I can dig it"
In response to Reply # 32
Fri Feb-28-03 10:20 AM

  

          

What I would do in those situations is ask so many questions, and challenge them on so many topics, that they would give me independent study projects on African-American culture, to silence me, and get me out of their hair. Then @ the PTA meetings, they would tell my mother, "Oh she's so....INTERESTING, so....ARTICULATE. You should REALLY encourage her to write more." Because in writing, I had to be quiet, right?
But hey, that really worked in my favor. It is through those "independent study projects" that I: was introduced to Margaret Walker's Jubilee, The Narrative of Frederick Douglass, learned ALL about the Brown vs. Board of Education case, all the GOOD stuff about MLK( I did not find out the bad stuff 'til after undergrad), the Black Panther Party, the Autobiography of Malcolm X.

I loved my teachers' dealing w/ me in this manner. The PAYBACK would come, when I had to present my project to the whole class at the end of the semester. The looks on their faces....priceless.


>>Even as a child growing up in the suburbs I felt alienated,
>especially when I was in tehe higher level classes and was
>on of the few black kids in the class. The teacher would use
>me as a "representative" and spokesperson for all black
>folks when we talked about race issues. "Oh you don't know
>*insert random blakc person*" Me: " No let me break out my
>Black rolodex that lists all of the Black people in the
>world...shit I am trying to learn just like everyone else."
>That is a lot of pressure,lol.

>Even now in school as an english major I often feel isolated
>and ignored in the subjects that I study. How many times can
>I read about a white man describing and idolizing the
>English countryside? His woman (which I know does not look a
>thing like me)? His government (whcih oppressed my people)?
>You only get that 3 credit requirement of a "Minority or
>Women's" Literature. That off the top tells me that you
>value one culture above another.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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nappiness
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1145 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 12:54 PM

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46. "RE: This one too."
In response to Reply # 3


          

damn, this all sounds familiar. i think i have a shadow or something that be running around in my thoughts.....lol lol lol

nappiness

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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akon
Charter member
26987 posts
Thu Feb-27-03 04:51 PM

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7. "the newsweek article"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

bothers me...i mean its great that women are doing well and as a woman i applaud ever step we take, but i dont like the underlying tone in the article that makes it sound like some sort of... competition isn;t the right word, but its sort of contrasting women and men's archievements from a clinical perspective. i mean yes there are more men in prison and probably more black women in college but i would like to know the reason for that disparity. i dont think its so much that women have found the magic formula when it comes to breaking the race and gender ceiling, or whatever the statement, there has to be something in this society that limits black men from making as great a stride. (and these are issues we always talk about everyday), i feel the article should have mentioned this, as well. he talks about,

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Zorasmoon
Member since Aug 30th 2002
37997 posts
Thu Feb-27-03 09:31 PM

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8. "could it be that"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

more often than not, black men tend to form a retreatist mentality since they are not allowed FULL privileges within American patriarchal soceity because they are black? And therefore are more likely to become discouraged?

Whereas, black women on the other hand, who are least likely *considered* a threat to the system of white male privilege, but in fact is the ONLY REAL threat to the dismantlement of the system because she is BOTH a women and a black person, tends to have a more positive outlook--because she is NOT after white male privilege--

She is not white, and she is not male, she doesn't feel *entitled* to privilege or necessarily compelled to uphold it. Or LET DOWN when she does not achieve it-- She is on the TAKE.

Don't forget, black men HAD the right to vote before white women. This country tends to put sexism before racism. Black men DO seem to have a sense of entitlement, because they are men.

If you have a better answer/theory, please share.

Personally I feel that this article is leaning towards that question--just WHAT is our (black women) motivation and what do we plan to do? Support the system or fight to break it down completely by creating viable alternatives?




SIG OF THE MONTH:

*****************************

"For some time now, the inequalities that are embedded into the American system have bothered me. As they are becoming progressively worse and it is clear that the government's priorities are not on bettering the quality of life for all of its people, but rather on expanding its own power, I cannot, in good conscience, salute the flag,'' Toni
Smith, college basketball player

http://espn.go.com/ncw/news/2003/0222/1512839.html



If life isn't what you want it to be, under your control, then what are you waiting for?
*********************************************************
Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html


http://www.youtube.com/user/kimmayluv

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 04:55 AM

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12. "I vote"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

for choice B.


>>I feel that this article is leaning towards that
>question--just what
>do we plan to do? Support the system or fight to break it
>down completely by creating viable alternatives?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 05:07 AM

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15. "I definitely feel a sense of entitlement"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

to whatever it is that I achieve in life, or obtain, that is positive, because 9.9 times out of 10, I had to struggle on some level or another to get it. I think that Sistahs need to shift our paradigm in that direction of entitlement. Why should white men feel more entitled to privilege and success than we? Because of white supremacy? If we are thinking about collectively dismantling that(which I hope we are), then the first step is change our MINDS about what we are or should be entitled to.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 05:09 AM

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16. "Hey"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

let me ask you something a white female co-worker asked me a few years back: 'Which do you think will come first in this country, a Black man as president, or a woman, and why?'


>>Don't forget, black men HAD the right to vote before white
>women. This country tends to put sexism before racism.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Zorasmoon
Member since Aug 30th 2002
37997 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 06:25 AM

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19. "black man will probably be president first"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

You asked: "let me ask you something a white female co-worker asked me a few years back: 'Which do you think will come first in this country, a Black man as president, or a woman, and why?"

I said previously: "Don't forget, black men HAD the right to vote before white women. This country tends to put sexism before racism"

You kind of answered the question for me.






SIG OF THE MONTH:

*****************************

"For some time now, the inequalities that are embedded into the American system have bothered me. As they are becoming progressively worse and it is clear that the government's priorities are not on bettering the quality of life for all of its people, but rather on expanding its own power, I cannot, in good conscience, salute the flag,'' Toni
Smith, college basketball player

http://espn.go.com/ncw/news/2003/0222/1512839.html



If life isn't what you want it to be, under your control, then what are you waiting for?
*********************************************************
Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html


http://www.youtube.com/user/kimmayluv

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 04:48 AM

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11. "Read"
In response to Reply # 7
Fri Feb-28-03 04:52 AM

  

          

the additional article "Tell It Like it Is", and Ellis Cose's LiveChat discussion on MSNBC. The questions that you raise were addressed therein.

For example, a Brothah wrote into Cose a similar assessment: the article was disturbing, but true.

How is it disturbing? Because we are 5 times as likely as a white woman to be unmarried if we are educated? Because the Brothahs are lagging behind in education? I guess since I am enmeshed in the reality, I am not getting the disturbing part. Particularly for it to be disturbing to Brothahs. If the situation is so disturbing to them, it seems that the ones who DO make it against the tremendous odds that are stacked against them, would choose to stay within their communities in terms of marriage, and I am just not seeing that. The first stats I read on interracial dating/marriage were in Ebony, maybe 15-20 years ago. Two to three times as many Brothahs were marrying white as Sistahs. I think today's statistics are similar, even though the numbers for both sides are rising. "I" think that is a problem. I don't fault the Sistahs though, because what can I say to, "What do you expect me to do? NOT be with a man, just because a Brothah does not want me?" I mean, it is just painful for me to hear that from girlfriends, co-workers, neighbors. One of my best friends is CLEAR on the fact that she wants to marry a white man. She tells me that she has experienced and witnessed close-hand the abuse Brothahs inflict in relationships. She's a soap-opera junkie, so she believes those make-believe images of so-called gorgeous, sensitive, marriage-minded white men is REAL, which contrasts what we have BOTH seen from Brothahs in real life. Now I can argue w/ her that white men are not really like those soap operas, and movies like the Wedding Singer portray them to be, or certainly not all of them. Hell, if you read Cosmo, you'll hear the same complaints about white men from white women, that we have about Brothahs. But what can I tell her about Brothahs? Of course I don't want to give up on them, but at the same time, it is not like we as Sistahs don't have our own issues and challenges that need to be addressed. We cannot spend our time focussed on what they are or are not doing, because we need to be focussed on correcting ourselves in our own areas of weakness. I know we should support them, but I guess I'm asking, how far should we take that? I would be VERY interested to see what Strezzed would have to write about that.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Nekaybaaw
Member since Dec 22nd 2002
6722 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 10:42 AM

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39. "Sista's PLEASE READ!!!!"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

*this was written in 1712* and it's 2003

THE BREAKING PROCESS
OF THE AFRICAN WOMAN


Take the female and run a series of tests on her to see if she will submit to your
desires willingly. Test her in every way, because she is the most important factor for good economics. If she shows any sign of resistance in submitting completely to your will, do not hesitate to use the bull whip on her to extract that last bit of b-word out of her. Take care not to kill her, for in doing so, you spoil good economic. When in complete submission, she will train her off springs in the early years to submit to labor when the become of age. Understanding is the best thing. Therefore, we shall go deeper into this area of the subject matter concerning what we have produced here in this breaking process of the female n-word. We have reversed the relationship in her natural uncivilized state she would have a strong dependency on the uncivilized n-word male, and she would have a limited protective tendency toward her independent male offspring and would raise male off springs to be dependent like her. Nature had provided for this type of balance. We reversed nature by burning and pulling a civilized n-word apart and bull whipping the other to the point of death, all in her presence. By her being left alone, unprotected, with the MALE IMAGE DESTROYED, the ordeal caused her to move from her psychological dependent state to a frozen independent state. In this frozen psychological state of independence, she will raise her MALE and female offspring in reversed roles. For FEAR of the young males life she will psychologically train him to be MENTALLY WEAK and DEPENDENT, but PHYSICALLY STRONG. Because she has become psychologically independent, she will train her FEMALE off springs to be psychological independent. What have you got? You've got the N-WORD WOMAN OUT FRONT AND THE N-WORD MAN BEHIND AND SCARED. This is a perfect situation of sound sleep and economic. Before the breaking process, we had to be alertly on guard at all times. Now we can sleep soundly, for out of frozen fear his woman stands guard for us. He cannot get past her early slave molding process. He is a good tool, now ready to be tied to the horse at a tender age. By the time a n-word boy reaches the age of sixteen, he is soundly broken in and ready for a long life of sound and efficient work and the reproduction of a unit of good labor force. Continually through the breaking of uncivilized savage n-word, by throwing the n-word female savage into a frozen psychological state of independence, by killing of the protective male image, and by creating a submissive dependent mind of the n-word male slave, we have created an orbiting cycle that turns on its own axis forever, unless a phenomenon occurs and re shifts the position of the male and female slaves. We show what we mean by example. Take the case of the two economic slave units and examine them close

Reference:http://thetalkingdrum.com/wil.html

please tell me what you think....THE Newsweek article is bullshyt!! And education isn't going to help unless it's centered around Knowing Thyself..If your not helping to educate our sisters about their culture and heritage then it doesnt really matter how many degrees we hold...Amerikkkan education system is centered around white folks accomplishments...

..:::the oracle sound:::..

www.Nekaybaaw.com
www.DeFiantoracle.com

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 11:09 AM

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40. "A local"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

politician here told me that the Willie Lynch meeting on the James River never occurred. I am still trying to find out how to historically verify it. The CONCEPT of course, is applicable. Supposedly, the letter was fabricated to make a point about the lack of unity amongst African-Americans.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Zorasmoon
Member since Aug 30th 2002
37997 posts
Thu Feb-27-03 03:38 PM

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5. "registers into conference...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*sits down, puts up name card*

As a young single black woman, I have to say that I'm NOT fearful of the "consequences" of success... Quite the opposite!

I think society as a whole is doing a disservice to young black women in general by promoting what I call the MPPLFS ---"Mass Propoganda Paranoia of Lonely Future Syndrome" (formerly known as the Waiting to Exhale Syndrome for the Baby Boom generation)

What a crock of shhh!
We are pressured, and I mean PRESSURED to stress over such menial (imo) things....can't we just enjoy LIFE!!! Damn!

I'm enjoying mutually beneficial, platonic, friendships with my black male peers (something that we are taught to believe doesn't exist)as well as others males and females of many ethnicities/nationalities..these are the important things in life yet we're encouraged to devalue them.

Eff the gender gap paranoia!!



SIG OF THE MONTH:

*****************************

"For some time now, the inequalities that are embedded into the American system have bothered me. As they are becoming progressively worse and it is clear that the government's priorities are not on bettering the quality of life for all of its people, but rather on expanding its own power, I cannot, in good conscience, salute the flag,'' Toni
Smith, college basketball player

http://espn.go.com/ncw/news/2003/0222/1512839.html



If life isn't what you want it to be, under your control, then what are you waiting for?
*********************************************************
Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html


http://www.youtube.com/user/kimmayluv

  

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akon
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26987 posts
Thu Feb-27-03 03:45 PM

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6. "signs up for conference..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

*hey.. where's my name plaque?*.
will come back with something concrete to say after i read these articles...

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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ya Setshego
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Fri Feb-28-03 04:58 AM

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13. "Hmmmmm..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


>>>I'm enjoying mutually beneficial, platonic, friendships with
>my black male peers (something that we are taught to believe
>doesn't exist)as well as others males and females of many
>ethnicities/nationalities..these are the important things in
>life yet we're encouraged to devalue them.
>
>Eff the gender gap paranoia!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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strezzed
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Fri Feb-28-03 02:52 AM

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9. "Hold up"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Feb-28-03 02:56 AM

          

I feel as though my Latina heritage (which is just as important as my Black, Afrikan what have you heritage) is being disrespected. Like I said before I think this is a wonderful idea but the exclusionary nature of it is a little disturbing.

Do I have to choose, lol?

"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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ya Setshego
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4259 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 05:01 AM

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14. "Yes,"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Speak from your Afrikan experience in this post. If your Afrikan experience has been heavily influenced by Latin culture, talk about it. If not, start a Latina's conference after this one is over. I'm sure you're needed in both communities.


>>I feel as though my Latina heritage (which is just as
>important as my Black, Afrikan what have you heritage) is
>being disrespected. Like I said before I think this is a
>wonderful idea but the exclusionary nature of it is a little
>disturbing.
>
>Do I have to choose, lol?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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strezzed
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Fri Feb-28-03 07:07 AM

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20. "gotcha"
In response to Reply # 14


          

will read article, responses, add thought, and reply tommorrow.


"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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rhulah
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4409 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 03:28 AM

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10. "RE: SISTAHS CONFERENCE"
In response to Reply # 0


          



As an Afrikan man who encourages sisterhood, i will serve you queens refreshments.

  

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akon
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26987 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 06:17 AM

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17. "so i finally read the article."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Feb-28-03 06:26 AM

  

          

and have a couple of questions/comments.

Does society embrace black women more? i mean we all hear about the strikes against being a 1)black 2) woman. but i'm wondering if to achieve success we are having to betray race. obviosly i am thinking condi rice who if i didn't know what she looks like i'd assume white male. Should we be saying that we are breaking the ceiling on gender and race if our afro centric sisters are less likely to achieve success unless they cut the dreads, straighten the hair, forget the cornrows and braids? i dont know too much about corporate america so i guess i am making an assumption and relying on the media... which is definitely only portraying one aspect of it. dont get me wrong, ladies, i am applauding the fact that we are overcoming the boundaries. i just dont think we should comfortably state that we are "breaking the ceiling on race and gender", because the racism still does exist, we are still experiencing it as black women (probably more), it merely speaks volumes that inspite of it we are making it....

Woods Qn: is it our responsibility to support our men. she's talking about finding a man who's straight out of prison (who she feels society is ignoring). Every other woman on the panel though, it talking about, giving up and looking for partners outside their race. How do we feel about this? i think even the whole matriarchy in black families initially was a result of black women coming to the support of the brothers. at the times when it was easier for sisters to get jobs, of course that had some serious connotations, the whole sixties black manhood debate being just one negative manifestation of it. so, should we now give up on black men? or maybe if we have found some magic formulae for success in this white man's world, should we strive to help out our brothers? ....but then again how the hell do you continue to do this if successful black men are very quick to run into the arms of a white woman.... i dont even know what to say about that...

Along with this though, say you have a brother without a degree, compared to your harvard or whatever, how do you reconcile the making more money issues? how do you introduce your 'less successful' partner to your 'professional' circles (thinking soulfood)? is this even an issue we should discuss or is this something more on a 'dependsonthepersonyourwith level??

What are our experiences (if any) growing up without a father/ strong male presence. for me the only time i had a 'father' figure was not necessarily a pleasant experience. prior to that i hadn't felt like i was missing out on anything and after that, still didn't think i had gained something. i dont think this reflects itself in the (male) relationships/friendships i have. and except maybe i have a profound appreciation of our strengths as women. not to minimize the role of a father in a family, obviously. just want to hear 'your' experience with this.

That said. i do look at race as a definitive part of who i can or will not date. i'm sorry but my kids are not going to be biracial. this to me is a personal issue.
that's why it was disturbing for me to read an article that polarizes our society- black women on one side of the ring and men on the other. one side has to succeed at the expense of the other (why dont we ever hear this debate in white circles?). we are sleeping in the same bed so i dont think we should be approaching our success as some sort of threat, or cause for 'other side' to be envious. i would appreciate the article more if we were talking about, okay so we are making it, how do we help our brothers find the same measure of success? dont tell me that because there are 'no' successful black men, then maybe i should start considering white men....

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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ya Setshego
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4259 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 07:28 AM

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21. "I'm witchu on THAT."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>> dont tell me that because there
>are 'no' successful black men, then maybe i should start
>considering white men....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Zorasmoon
Member since Aug 30th 2002
37997 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 07:35 AM

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22. "Let's create a singles line for ex-offenders!! Grrrreat"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>>>>Woods Qn: is it our responsibility to support our men. she's talking about finding a man who's straight out of prison (who she feels society is ignoring). Every other woman on the panel though, it talking about, giving up and looking for partners outside their race. How do we feel about this?<<<

That shit was a slap in the face. Granted there are a lot of "good" black men in prison--I guess that "good" would be defined as those detained for victimless crimes, ie. marijuana dealing--political prisoners (who never get out)

But there are also a lot of "bad" people detained as well. ie. rapist, murderers, child predators...

Saying that black women should be "fishing" in that pond was just a slick way of further underminding us.





SIG OF THE MONTH:

*****************************

"For some time now, the inequalities that are embedded into the American system have bothered me. As they are becoming progressively worse and it is clear that the government's priorities are not on bettering the quality of life for all of its people, but rather on expanding its own power, I cannot, in good conscience, salute the flag,'' Toni
Smith, college basketball player

http://espn.go.com/ncw/news/2003/0222/1512839.html



If life isn't what you want it to be, under your control, then what are you waiting for?
*********************************************************
Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html


http://www.youtube.com/user/kimmayluv

  

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strezzed
Charter member
6529 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 09:18 AM

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28. "Damn good points and questions"
In response to Reply # 17


          


>Does society embrace black women more?

Good question...I don't think so.

>obviously i am thinking condi rice who if i didn't
>know what she looks like i'd assume white male.

Speaking of Condoleeza here is an interesting articel pertaining to that subject that I just read:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4533365,00.html

>Should we be saying that we are breaking the ceiling on gender >and race if our afro centric sisters are less likely to achieve
>success unless they cut the dreads, straighten the hair,
>forget the cornrows and braids?

No. I think that some major changes need to be made with our visionof success. Why, in order to be successful, do we need to change features of our culture? I think the main problem is this white supremacist patriarchial system - this is what is luring our brothers with visions of money and power but locking them up at the same time; this is what is telling us that our culture is not good enough so we need to be like them.

>i just dont think we should comfortably state that we are
>"breaking the ceiling on race and gender", because the
>racism still does exist, we are still experiencing it as
>black women (probably more), it merely speaks volumes that
>inspite of it we are making it....

You are right! My mother works for the govt and had to file an EEO complaint a couple of years ago because they gave the job to a white woman with only a high school degree. My mother scored the 2nd highest (1st highest was a black woman) and has credits towards her masters, more experience, and is bi-lingual. She won but it is a shame that many minorities were not trying to support her. The good ol' boy system is well inplace; they alluded to that in the articel but were too scared to use the actual term.

>Woods Qn: is it our responsibility to support our men.
>she's talking about finding a man who's straight out of
>prison (who she feels society is ignoring).

Not to the detriment of ourselves.


>What are our experiences (if any) growing up without a
>father/ strong male presence.


>That said. i do look at race as a definitive part of who i
>(why dont we ever hear this debate in
>white circles?).

>we are sleeping in the same bed so i dont
>think we should be approaching our success as some sort of
>threat, or cause for 'other side' to be envious. i would
>appreciate the article more if we were talking about, okay
>so we are making it, how do we help our brothers find the
>same measure of success?

Right. That should be the next focus. The "problem" has been revealed and discussed ad nauseum. It is time to take action.

"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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akon
Charter member
26987 posts
Sat Mar-01-03 04:15 AM

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47. "RE: Damn good points and questions"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

the man in that article is crazy if he thinks the damn republicans gon' even consider condi or collin for prezo. not gon happen. i dont see their presence in the white house as some sort of liberating moment for us- might have a lot to do with imagery, what looks good (i watched this bush interview once and couldn't help noticing that when he got an affirmative action question he was quick to point out that even condi rice agrees with him. implication being because she's black she must speak for the rest of us. sort of saying, look! a black person agrees so i must be right). and that's about it. as i said, i think condi, i visualize white male. collin, he's giving so many mixed signals i dont know whether he's coming or going. either way, if the republicans embraced a jesse jackson, or a sharpton, or a barbara lee, maybe we can start talking about having black representation coming from the right. until then its merely white representation dressed in black skin. not trying to support it.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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strezzed
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Sat Mar-01-03 07:54 AM

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49. "RE: Damn good points and questions"
In response to Reply # 47


          


>i dont see their presence in the white
>house as some sort of liberating moment for us- might have a
>lot to do with imagery, what looks good

he is not saying it is liberating. he just says that the republicans are doing better when it comes to giving minorities political power, i.e. bush vs. clinton's cabinet. it is more of a critique of the left and although they are ahead of the right in regards to representation they rarely give minorities that much power therefore their diversity is "symbolic rather than substantial.


(i watched this bush
>interview once and couldn't help noticing that when he got
>an affirmative action question he was quick to point out
>that even condi rice agrees with him. implication being
>because she's black she must speak for the rest of us. sort
>of saying, look! a black person agrees so i must be right).
>and that's about it. as i said, i think condi, i visualize
>white male.

why? because she has power?

>collin, he's giving so many mixed signals i
>dont know whether he's coming or going. either way, if the
>republicans embraced a jesse jackson, or a sharpton, or a
>barbara lee, maybe we can start talking about having black
>representation coming from the right. until then its merely
>white representation dressed in black skin. not trying to
>support it.

but jesse jackson and al sharpton do not represent all of "our" views. no candidate possibly can. the only candidate that could benefit us the most, whether she or he represents our views or not, is the one who is against this system of white supremacy and capitalism. and the democrats are nooo better. they are using carol mosely braun to take votes away from sharpton.

"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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ya Setshego
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Sun Mar-02-03 09:55 AM

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59. "Speak(write) the TRUTH!"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

PLEASE speak it.

>>the only candidate
>that could benefit us the most, whether she or he represents
>our views or not, is the one who is against this system of
>white supremacy and capitalism. and the democrats are nooo
>better. they are using carol mosely braun to take votes away
>from sharpton.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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slum_beautiful
Member since Nov 25th 2002
95 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 06:24 AM

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18. "great topic :)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Let me read the articles and I'll post a reply.

  

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ya Setshego
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Fri Feb-28-03 08:15 AM

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23. "Topic # 2: Hair"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ladies, where are we on this hair issue? I have not seen it come up in Activist in a while.

Let me share a quote from my Naturals Women's group:

"I also remember a friend not wanting to go natural because of black men not liking it. I was outraged.

Women ...remember this we control how our men perceive us. From the beginning of time black women and our hair have gone through many styles and evolutions and our men have enjoyed them all. So those who don't accept us treating ourselves better by treating our hair better, don't worry about them there are men who do. "


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
9433 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 08:19 AM

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24. "RE: SISTAHS CONFERENCE"
In response to Reply # 0


          

sounds to me like a lesbian recruitment tactic.

  

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jenNjuice
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Fri Feb-28-03 09:19 AM

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29. "shuddup"
In response to Reply # 24


          

"whether i'll ever live up to that and cease my search and study of a biological agent to rid the planet of caucazoids...the world
may never know."-
Utamaroho

"God is good, me love God, God love me. God will take care of me, Jesus love me too, I will repent all my sins and give me to Jesus, Jesus will take me to heaven with him. Jesus loves me, me good. Me give money to church, church good. Pastor needs new car, Jesus loves me, Jesus loves pastor. Jesus is God, jesus is son of God, Jesus is father of god, me confused now. Me go to sleep now, me need nap, me brain tired."

-Christians

~either stand tall or sit the fuck down~mos def

"Then Columbus didn't find anything, he was simply lost. if I take a boat to England once I get there, regardless of how, can I simply rename the place...Harlem?"-Aquaman

"However, the village mentality, and understanding what worked for us before injustice, before yurugu infection, before colonialism is what will save us now. "-Firebrand

"The only thing we wanted for our country was the right to a decent existence, to dignity without hypocrisy , to independence without restrictions... The day will come when history will have its say."-Lumumba

  

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strezzed
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6529 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 09:22 AM

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31. "RE"
In response to Reply # 29


          

don't even respond to him or any other who tries to bring negativity and ignorance in here


"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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ya Setshego
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4259 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 09:51 AM

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34. "Let us have a review"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Sistahs, IF this request is not honored by our fellow Activists, do me a favor and DO NOT REPLY TO THEIR MESSAGES WITHIN THIS THREAD. This is intended to be a dialogue amongst us, and us only. Please, let us respect ourselves enough to not let nay-sayers detract us from this, nor anyone else who might just feel left out.

If you choose to address ignorance, or someone's lack of respect for our space by posting after having been asked NOT to, please inbox them. You can duke it out w/ them off-line. All they want is attention anyway. Some people can't STAND to see others try to rise w/o begging for their input in the process. Please, let us not get caught up in that.

Thanks.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Zorasmoon
Member since Aug 30th 2002
37997 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 11:24 AM

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41. "why repeat yourself??"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

once was enough.

don't you know that ignorance attracts ignorance? so be it.

SIG OF THE MONTH:

*****************************

"For some time now, the inequalities that are embedded into the American system have bothered me. As they are becoming progressively worse and it is clear that the government's priorities are not on bettering the quality of life for all of its people, but rather on expanding its own power, I cannot, in good conscience, salute the flag,'' Toni
Smith, college basketball player

http://espn.go.com/ncw/news/2003/0222/1512839.html



If life isn't what you want it to be, under your control, then what are you waiting for?
*********************************************************
Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html


http://www.youtube.com/user/kimmayluv

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 11:27 AM

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42. "I really"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

just wanted to add this part:

"If you choose to address ignorance, or someone's lack of respect for our space by posting after having been asked NOT to, please inbox them. You can duke it out w/ them off-line. All they want is attention anyway. Some people can't STAND to see others try to rise w/o begging for their input in the process. Please, let us not get caught up in that.

Thanks."

Because I see that some of us will not be able to resist the urge to respond, despite my request. This is a perfect example of what I meant in the Malcolm's Thread about Sistahs not knowing how to just BE SILENT, to make their point.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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strezzed
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6529 posts
Fri Feb-28-03 08:57 AM

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25. "my long response"
In response to Reply # 0


          

First of all the numbers are not that staggeringly different. Before I read the article I was expecting a much larger gap. The truth is that the percentages rise and fall between the sexes of all races all of the time. This was a discussion point in my gender in education class the other day. My professor said that 20 years ago in the UK white boys were doing better than girls and now the tables have turned.

Society and LIFE is not static, it changes, and statistics are useful but they can no describe everything and they often reflect the aims came off as very sensationalized and sugar coated but it did touch on a lot of important issues.

I left the essay feeling a little depressed, like damn is it really like that? Would I have to prepare my daughters? I also do not like how they tried and make it seem, and sometimes flat out said that we have it easier than black men. I will be damned. That undermines all of the work of sisters who are successful. Do we have it easier or do we just deal with the bullshit of this system better?

This leads me to my next point/question that rhulah made so well. Why don’t they compare any other races? ESPECIALLY - the white race? I want some statistics on that.

The reasons for black men not achieving as much were not satisfying enough to me. I think that the article skirted around more serious issues:

1. Most black males encouraged to be jocks

2. Females have more focus and sense of purpose – we are more “tough – minded.” I think that this alludes to the black superwoman stereotype which presents us with some positive qualities but we should be aware of always trying to live up to that. We are human too, we have needs, we need to be nurtured too.

I do believe that the college dating pool is small, a lot of brothers get recycled on my campus. I also agree with the she is doing better than me syndrome. Funny when they had the Sula quote I remember the scene when Sula put her friend’s husband straight for pitying himself as a Black man basically saying that everyone wanted or wanted to be like the Black man.

I also think that Black men date more outside of the race because of their sexual stereotypes. They are supposed to be “bigger,” more “promiscuous,” and “sensual,” than other races. I think a lot of Black men try and play into those stereotypes and get into that spread your seed, sexual warrior syndrome; and ultimately start basing their idea of manhood on that. As opposed to Black women who I believe are de-sexed by the media on one hand, and over-sexed by hip hop on the other. We do not fit they typical mold of what is “beautiful.” Often those who do look or are bi-racial: Beyonce, Halle Berry just to name a few.


THE MONEY ISSUE

My ex boyfriend who was not in school had issues with my being in college, although he would never admit it. He was always like “You can do better,” or “You are not going to want to be with me later on.” That was annoying in its self. But I would always think, well if you think I am doing so great then do great yourself! Make some moves! I hope I won’t have to deal with this in the future. But I think the problem lies within patriarchy. As Zorasmoon and I spoke about before . The assumption is that men are supposed to make more than women. That is incorrect. But yet some brothers play into that sexist line of thinking and then feel less than when women make more. If we overcome this sexist assumption then a woman making more will no longer cause tension in marriages or intimidate brothers.


INTERRACIAL DATING

Although I may get flack for this, but I am with Star. My ideal husband would be Black, but I am not going to disregard someone just because they are not “Black.” And as a Black Latina I think my perception of Black is different. My mother was born and raised in Honduras. She is not your typical Spanish looking woman, but her CULTURE was completely different from my father who is from Monroe, LA. Although I am more in touch with my Black side, my dating a Spanish man does not seem that different for me because our culture won’t be as different. White on the other hand is different and would be more of a culture shock.



"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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ya Setshego
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Fri Feb-28-03 09:47 AM

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33. "No"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

I think they open the doors to us more readily because we donot pose a threat to them. We can be powerful. That does not detract from white men's power in any way. Mammy had a VERY powerful role on the plantation. Sometimes, she would even tell "massa" what to do. But massa was still massa, now wasn't he? By being powerful, mammy kept HIS plantation running in tip top order. By rising in positions, ALONE, Black women continue to keep white male run corporations, governments, and universities running in tip top order. They would be stupid NOT to let us rise. we do THEIR bidding when we do. Brothahs on the other hand, pose a SERIOUS threat to the system in a state of DEVELOPMENT, not arrested, or a state of enfranchisement, versus 'dis'ed. Let HIM come into the "big house" and get some power. Next thing you'll know, HE'LL want to be "massa". Or the CEO of AOL/Time Warner. Same difference.


>>Do we have it easier or do we
>just deal with the bullshit of this system better?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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strezzed
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35. "so..."
In response to Reply # 33


          

are you saying that we have it "easier"

or just that we pose less of a threat, or both.

i just don't think that we do, even if we are less threatening than the black man. and i think that undermines our successes and just how hard we have it. even if i were to agree on the threat part, we still have to deal with sexism from white and black men. so it should not even be about "easier" to me, that -to me- takes it back to the whole competition thing, on some whole : who is the more victimized? who is less or more threatening? etc.

"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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ya Setshego
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36. "No WAY"
In response to Reply # 35
Fri Feb-28-03 10:05 AM

  

          

do we have it easier. NO WAY. Once we rise, if we are alone(no man), we don't even have someone to talk to when we get home, about all the s*** we had to take from the whitefolks trying to tear us down cuz we made it. How is THAT having it easy? I mean, at LEAST Sistahs who have men, but might not be educated(say, a secretary married to a janitor) can go home and talk to him about the crap she had to deal w/, and vice-versa.

Who provides that @ home support for a single, educated Sistah? That does NOT constitute having it EASIER in any way.

I think it is white men who deem us as no threat. That is THEIR thing. That they think that actually works in our favor. White women on the other hand, are another story. From the plantation mistress, to the modern-day Sistah who works under them who is smarter, and more educated, we have ALWAYS been a threat to them. That is an issue of perceived strength that WE have, that they do not(we never could afford to lounge around and wait for someone to put US up on a pedestal, now could we?).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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akon
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48. "RE: my long response"
In response to Reply # 25
Sat Mar-01-03 04:20 AM

  

          

'First of all the numbers are not that staggeringly different. Before I read the article I was expecting a much larger gap. The truth is that the percentages rise and fall between the sexes of all races all of the time. '

i dont know... i think we can pretty much agree that women are running this joint. forget statistics case studies etc etc. its been happening. and i see it continuing to happen as long as society is as is. but why is it, an oh my good this is a negative trend type shit. why isn't more of a cause for celebration that women are doing well instead of dragging up, black men are suffering on account of this...women cant find the right man (so, do we give up our successes for this??)

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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strezzed
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26. "TOPIC: The Black Mother/Daughter vs. Son Relationship"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Do you believe that one of the reasons that we are so successful is that the Black mother (according to the sayings) raises her daughter, but loves or nurtures her son more?

I see this in my family and my friends' families A LOT!!! Then I see the result and the different levels of success between the males and the females and wonder if this is a result of that.

My mother put herself through college, is married, has a home, car, the whole 9. But my Uncle who is a year younger is still wandering, has been in jail, had a drug problem, has been married twice, barely has a relationship with his kids, and is very immature and irresponsible. My grandmother STILL is trying to take care of him, and sheis much harder on her daughters. Is this why our men lag behind? Because they want us to "baby" them as well by overcompensating for their lack of success?

How can we help them without neglecting oureselves? We who have a lot of issues to deal with as well coming from the system AND them.

Also, is this why we have such a strong loyalty to brothers despite their waning loyalty towards us? Are we just mimicking our mothers?

Has anyone seen Lala's Kin? There is a great example of that in there.

DISCLAIMER: I know that this does not apply to ALL men, but to a lot.

"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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ya Setshego
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Fri Feb-28-03 09:10 AM

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27. "What is that?"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          


>
>>>Has anyone seen Lala's Kin? There is a great example of that
>in there.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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strezzed
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30. "One of the best films I ever saw:"
In response to Reply # 27


          

http://www.laleeskin.com/

Spelled it wrong - it is Lalee. But they showed it on HBO last year.

"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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ya Setshego
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38. "I don't know"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

HOW I missed that one. Do you know if it's out on video? Could you provide a brief synopsis of the plot right here?
Thanks.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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akon
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Fri Feb-28-03 11:54 AM

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43. "had to dig up my girl June Jordan"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

cause you know she always had something to say (r.i.p June).
this is from her book, Technical Difficulties. Tried to get the whole essay online but cant... so i'll just paraphrase..
I think this was written for valentine's day 1989..

No chocolates for breakfast.

... but let me not discount the debit side of things! We do have 'experts'. i bet anybody ten cents: if black women disappeared tomorrow, a huge retinue of self appointed and New York times-appointed 'experts' would have to hit the streets looking for new jobs.

It seems we cant be beat for blame, I mean, whenever these experts find two or three Black women, why the next thing you know there is a pathogenic This or a pathological That. Seems we're generally not doing good enough or else we're doing altogether too good. Either way, me and my sistren, we apparently function as the hopeless carriers, if not causative agents of bad news....

...That's about as gratuitious, as malevolent, and bedeviling as the New York times. Two Sundays ago, front page, they laid out this pseudo-scientific headline with their usual pomp: EXPERTS FORESEE A SOCIAL GAP BETWEEN SEXES AMONG BLACKS. According to the information the experts selected for evaluation, 60% of black students in colleges and universities are women, i.e fewer Black men currently attend institutions of higher learning than do black women. "This imbalnce among blacks, the experts proceed to explain, will have broad, harmful consequences not only on campuses but thoughout American society. ' What a crock of patriarchal malarkey.

Is it GOd given that men of whatever description should know more, earn more, wield more power than women? I have never heard anybody say that the virtual monopoly of Black men in the realm of public elected office, up to and including the U.S Congress- this 'imbalance' this de facto minority state of affairs for Black women implies 'broad and harmful consequences' to anything...

...
interesting point of view, i thought!

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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Zorasmoon
Member since Aug 30th 2002
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44. "thanks for that post!!"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

SIG OF THE MONTH:

*****************************

"For some time now, the inequalities that are embedded into the American system have bothered me. As they are becoming progressively worse and it is clear that the government's priorities are not on bettering the quality of life for all of its people, but rather on expanding its own power, I cannot, in good conscience, salute the flag,'' Toni
Smith, college basketball player

http://espn.go.com/ncw/news/2003/0222/1512839.html



If life isn't what you want it to be, under your control, then what are you waiting for?
*********************************************************
Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html


http://www.youtube.com/user/kimmayluv

  

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ya Setshego
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45. "Thanks for posting this."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

This is because there is a patriarchal expectation that they would lead. It is hard for whitefolks to envision us surviving in a social context where WE lead. That is a Christian notion also, sanctioned by I Corinthians (the God-man-woman-child order of the family).

>>Is it GOd given that men of whatever description should know
>more, earn more, wield more power than women? I have never
>heard anybody say that the virtual monopoly of Black men in
>the realm of public elected office, up to and including the
>U.S Congress- this 'imbalance' this de facto minority state
>of affairs for Black women implies 'broad and harmful
>consequences' to anything...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Nettrice
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Sat Mar-01-03 08:52 AM

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50. "Personal Freedom"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I was messing with my supervisor (an older Black man) when I told him I had to leave early because I had a "date". In fact, my date was with the eleven year old girl I mentor but I left out the details. The supervisor said, "You need to get permission from us before going on a date." He was waiting on a reaction. I just shook my head at him like I was admonishing a child. 'Nope, I'm not going there with you.'

This old fogey thinks it's okay to joke around that way but looks stunned or confused everytime I do something that doesn't fit his perception. He acts like the concerned father when it looks as if I am doing my own thing (being entreprenuerial). He calls it spreading myself too thin. I call it not putting all my eggs in one basket. He seeks control of me as far as my work. I decided to break out but not in reaction to his intentions. My life is not a reaction to his perceptions.

I use this story to say that although I encounter sexism (and racism) almost everyday, only I choose how to live my life. I've decided not to live it in reaction of my male (and often female) peers.

It's starts with that first attention, that first message we get when we are babies/children. Then, it becomes a war against negative perceptions for the freedom to use our minds and bodies, for the freedom to be the architects of our own lives, and design the lives of our dreams. My earliest message was that I had no chance to succeed. Like my father's mother, I was expected to get "knocked up" by age 15. I also learned that Black people did not do well outside of the neighborhood/family, esp. around white people. I was taught to fear white people and limit my prospects. My first attention was mental poison.

In order to transform my perceptions and my life I decided to transmute what I call mental poison by the power of intention into intelligence by simple stating I will use the poison as fuel to do something different, to break my domestication that kept my enslaved by fear.

The Newsweek article(s) is bullshit. The whole premise is that by choosing to ascend, Black women are making themselves unworthy of love (marriage, motherhood). It submits that ascension makes Black women unlovable and undesirable.

Personal freedom is often viewed as selfishness as far as Black women are concerned. With the first attention we learn from the external world through all the cues sent our way, to learn what is acceptable or standard. With our second attention we choose what to accept or believe and we can choose to toss all the garbage out. We live in the same world as before but the difference is we can choose what to believe or what not to believe.

At some point in my young life, I decided that my father's messages were poison but then my whole world expanded and it included lots of other men's (and women's) negative opinions. If these people call me by my name I look to see that they want from me. Those people tell me what they want or expect and if I am interested or agree then I am there. If they call me out of my name or I am not interested then I detach and put my energy into other things, go another direction.

Black women have a right to decide on their path and not follow what is accepted just because they fear they will be unloved or not accepted. Love begins within. Low self-worth is often at the source of our emotional pain but we can transform ourselfs through intention, attention, action and repetition.

If you tell me that the only way to receive my father's love (for example) is to agree with his poison then I will tell you to go to hell. I love myself more than that. I know my worth and I've chosen to live my life on my own terms, damn the consequences. There are no regrets...not about my hair, my lifestlye or my career.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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MeDiNaStaR
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51. "readin your words always inspires me"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

stay blessed




>>>>>>jaja, gewoon niet te lang<<<<<<

Boogie your ass off!

____

hate keeps my teeth white

  

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Nettrice
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52. "Another Negative Perception"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

I often have to deal with male colleagues who play on my so-called nurturing sensibilities. Many men (and women) are conditioned that women are the nurturers and men are the protectors. My supervisor sees himself as a protector but he does poorly in that role. In fact, her is more like a hustler. His smooth words and opportunistic view keeps him stuck in his role but he lacks the skills or know-how to put things into action. He macks his staff, reaping the benefits of their efforts for himself or to push his agenda. He says he does this to protect his people. The fact that he is a Black man disappoints me but he is no different from the other mostly white male politicians and community leaders I work with.

I got savvy after just one year. He was so smooth but I saw through the facade and decided I better start hustling my damn self to protect myself and keep from being exploited. His message to me was "take care of me and I will provide for or protect you". I got something similar from my own father many years ago. It's possible that these men, both Black but from different places, were conditioned with the same messages (see above), as many woman are.

As far as my career and life, it's been a lifelong process to live on my own terms. When I was a girl, I had to learn that it was not my job to take care of my father, a grown man, or his children and affairs. I was just a kid, not a surrogate wife. Fortunately, it's easier now. My supervisor and male colleagues are not my sons or my "boys". We are all equal whether they choose to see it that way or not.

Years later I showed my father some of my paintings and he came up with a get rich scheme on the spot. His idea was for me to make the art and he would sell it. We would both get 50% of the profits. However, I was the one laboring, making the art. He wanted my help to find the right contacts so it really wasn't 50/50. The same thing happens now. I was sucked in by this "take care of me, I'll protect you" mentality because underneath it all I wanted to feel loved and worthy...in his/their eyes. I had to let that go. Now, I labor and sell my own work.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Nettrice
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Sat Mar-01-03 09:31 AM

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53. "RE: Another Negative Perception"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

>I was sucked in by this "take care of me, I'll protect
>you" mentality because underneath it all I wanted to feel
>loved and worthy...

...even safe. Whoo! Hey, ya'll, I got a lot on my mind today and I am working it out. Time to take a break and have some fun!

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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MeDiNaStaR
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Sat Mar-01-03 09:49 AM

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54. "RE: Another Negative Perception"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          


>
>As far as my career and life, it's been a lifelong process
>to live on my own terms. When I was a girl, I had to learn
>that it was not my job to take care of my father, a grown
>man, or his children and affairs. I was just a kid, not a
>surrogate wife. Fortunately, it's easier now. My
>supervisor and male colleagues are not my sons or my "boys".
> We are all equal whether they choose to see it that way or
>not.

Seems like you read my mind, I grew with responsiblity as synonym for my name...Now I'm trying to find balance between self and "others"

its a struggle thou

>>>>>>jaja, gewoon niet te lang<<<<<<

Boogie your ass off!

____

hate keeps my teeth white

  

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strezzed
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55. "Yes"
In response to Reply # 50
Sun Mar-02-03 06:03 AM

          

I feel you. I had similar problems with my family because I did not want to do things the way that they saw fit. But there comes a time when you have to decide what is best for you as the person thatyou are; not as a daughter, sister, girlfriend, or even a black woman. This is what I was discussing with ye setshego in the other post. We as black woman have to create our own paths because what society sets out for us is limiting. Our success or failures should not be defined only in relation to Black men; they are our own.

When I first cut off all of my hair my grandmother told me that "Your hair is your beauty and you should not have cut it off because you don't have the face for it." When I decided to leave the church I grew up in and try to explore other religions my mother and I battled over that for months.

Sometimes you just have to say fuck it I am doing what I know is best for me. If I had lived by others opinions and expectations I would not be who I am today. I feel that by taking risks, no matter how big or small we open ourselves to new worlds. I refuse to accept my families limitations and expectations (no matter how well intended they may be), friends, or anyone for that matter.

"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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Zorasmoon
Member since Aug 30th 2002
37997 posts
Sun Mar-02-03 06:01 AM

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56. "'tis my motto"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>>>Sometimes you just have to say fuck it I am doing what I know is best for me.<<<


SIG OF THE MONTH:

*****************************

"For some time now, the inequalities that are embedded into the American system have bothered me. As they are becoming progressively worse and it is clear that the government's priorities are not on bettering the quality of life for all of its people, but rather on expanding its own power, I cannot, in good conscience, salute the flag,'' Toni
Smith, college basketball player

http://espn.go.com/ncw/news/2003/0222/1512839.html



If life isn't what you want it to be, under your control, then what are you waiting for?
*********************************************************
Recommended reading:

******Parable of the Sower- by Octavia Butler*******
Story about a hyper-empath who becomes the founder of a humanist cult created to transform the destiny of humankind

******The spirit of Terrorism- Jean Baudrillard*******
A MUST read for every thinking being
online copy @
http://awake.sparklehouse.com/downloads/papers/baud_terr.html


http://www.youtube.com/user/kimmayluv

  

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ya Setshego
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Sun Mar-02-03 10:11 AM

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60. "I feel you on that."
In response to Reply # 55
Sun Mar-02-03 10:12 AM

  

          

You get no argument from me .

>>I refuse to accept my families limitations
>and expectations (no matter how well intended they may be),
>friends, or anyone for that matter.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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strezzed
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Sun Mar-02-03 06:16 AM

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57. "Question:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Do any of you do this in real life? Do any of you have a support group for sisters, or a learning group where you come together and discuss issues such as these?

ye setshago: I am from the Baltimore/DC area I am interested in starting one around there.

Has anyone read Sacred Woman by Queen Afua? Comments on that?

Examples of groups:
http://www.data4all.com/list/500/512000/0062515225
http://www.liveoakuu.org/women.html

"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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ya Setshego
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Sun Mar-02-03 10:26 AM

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61. "RE: Queen Afua"
In response to Reply # 57
Sun Mar-02-03 10:27 AM

  

          

is...well....a QUEEN. I have both of her books, and I read an interview with her in African Business and Culture, where she was talking about what Sistahs need to do to reclaim our men, be it from jail, drugs, or even the arms of white women. I read that article like five times. In fact, I might pull it out and re-read it tonight. Did y'all read it? Maybe after work tomorrow I could type it in here, and we can discuss it next. Y'all seem to not be feelin' that Newsweek article, so maybe we should move onto another one. I liked the article, I thought it made valid points. I value the comments and different perspectives you all offered though.

As far as the support group, I am a member of three women's support groups on line: women_on_race(which is based out of Nashville, and started out as a weekly face-to-face women's group across racial lines, as an outgrowth from the Race Relations Institute), DC Naturals, and DC Sistagirls.

I miss having face-to-face women's meetings though. My homegirls are all married, engaged, or church ladies here at home, so it's not like I can call a last minute pow-wow @ 11p.m. on a Saturday night, like I used too. Leave home for 10 years, and this is what I get: girlfriends that are for the most part unavailable to me, so I spend most of my time alone. That is how I have so much time to be on OKplayer.

Anyhow, enough for my sob story. Inbox me w/ further details on your idea.

And let me take a moment to express GRATITUDE to y'all Sistahs for participating in this post. I feel really encouraged by that. I believe that for the most part, or really for the WHOLE part, the notorious(and sometimes infamous) strength of the Black woman emanates from within each of us, out to each other, so that we ALL are bouyed, above all the bs w/ our men, jobs, families, negative messages about body image....all of it. I think we feed off each other, and find strength from each other. This post is a perfect example of that. So THANK YOU!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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strezzed
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Sun Mar-02-03 06:19 AM

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58. "Idea"
In response to Reply # 0


          

On when we spoke of education earlier. I stated how important i felt political education was as well. With the upcoming elections maybe we can all "donate" links to reputable sites and information about each candidate, the voting system, etc. When it is all done we can email it to our friends and family.

I realized that one of the reasons people do not vote is because they don't know much about the importance of the process and the candidates. They also do not have time to do the important research. Anybody down? If not I will do it myself but I wanted to tap into the resources on here.

(We could take it even further and put it on a webpage - it is real easy to do that I have a personal site already.)

"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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ya Setshego
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Sun Mar-02-03 10:39 AM

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62. "Carole Mosely Braun"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,424385,00.html

http://www.moseley-braun.org/news.html

http://www.africana.com/Articles/tt_044.htm

http://www.mith2.umd.edu/WomensStudies/GovernmentPolitics/WomeninCongress/Biographies/Senate/moseley-braun-carol

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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ya Setshego
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Mon Mar-03-03 07:03 AM

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63. "RE: SISTAHS Panel on NPR Last Night"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Did anyone hear it? The topic was Black Feminism.

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Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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ya Setshego
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4259 posts
Tue Mar-04-03 04:01 AM

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64. "RE: SISTAHS CONFERENCE"
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up.

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Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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strezzed
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6529 posts
Wed Mar-05-03 04:26 AM

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65. "up!"
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...

"who i'm eeea?"
aim - bronze elixir
yahoo - amorel7

  

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