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Subject: "ABC News smuggles depleted uranium past U.S. borders" This topic is locked.
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dhalgren718
Member since Jun 20th 2002
16992 posts
Wed Sep-10-03 01:53 PM

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"ABC News smuggles depleted uranium past U.S. borders"


  

          

http://printerfriendly.abcnews.com/printerfriendly/Print?fetchFromGLUE=true&GLUEService=ABCNewsCom

OKAYCONSERVATIVES: Please tell me how much more secure we are under the Bush junta. After reading this, I feel MUCH safer having surrendered my civil liberties, watched the national deficit balloon higher than even one year under the Marshal Plan, and watched two different nations invaded.

MUCH safer.

My city gets fucking bombed, and two years later, we STILL haven't received the Federal Aid we were promised, Osama bin Laden is STILL at large, and all we have is a gay fucking color coded alert system to tell us when someone MIGHT be feeling a tad un-American one day. We get told about the ADDITIONAL sacrafices 'we're' going to have to make, but not one fucking Senator has family on the front lines.

Looks like those 3,000 dead CERTAINLY served a purpose, huh.

http://50yearsfromnow.blogspot.com
MONGO IS A RACIST PIECE OF SHIT.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: ABC News smuggles depleted uranium past U.S. border
Sep 10th 2003
1
RE: ABC News smuggles depleted uranium past U.S. border
Sep 10th 2003
2
No, foxxxy...
Sep 10th 2003
3
who is more idealistic?
Sep 10th 2003
8
      We're BOTH idiots...
Sep 11th 2003
12
           ill drink to that!
Sep 11th 2003
20
but...
Sep 10th 2003
7
      yea
Sep 10th 2003
9
           ugh.
Sep 11th 2003
10
well
Sep 10th 2003
4
if this happened while Clinton was in office...
Sep 10th 2003
5
RE: if this happened while Clinton was in office...
Sep 11th 2003
11
RE: if this happened while Clinton was in office...
Sep 11th 2003
13
      RE: if this happened while Clinton was in office...
Sep 11th 2003
15
           RE: if this happened while Clinton was in office...
Sep 11th 2003
21
and how many times...
Sep 11th 2003
14
      Clinton didn't launch
Sep 11th 2003
23
           RE: Clinton didn't launch
Sep 11th 2003
24
           you're right...
Sep 12th 2003
30
                True ...
Sep 12th 2003
31
ha.
Sep 10th 2003
6
but if security is no better
Sep 11th 2003
16
RE: haOkay.
Sep 11th 2003
17
RE: haOkay.
Sep 11th 2003
19
      WTC 1
Sep 11th 2003
22
      Explain
Sep 11th 2003
27
RE: ha.
Sep 11th 2003
18
You can't use Depleted Uranium to make Nuclear Weapons
Sep 11th 2003
25
RE: You can't use Depleted Uranium to make Nuclear Weap
Sep 11th 2003
26
      Depleted Uranium isn't radioactive
Sep 11th 2003
28
           RE: Depleted Uranium isn't radioactive
Sep 11th 2003
29

blackfists
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Wed Sep-10-03 02:46 PM

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1. "RE: ABC News smuggles depleted uranium past U.S. border"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-10-03 02:54 PM

          

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/dailynews/sept11_uranium020911.html

How Safe Are Our Borders?
Customs Fails to Detect Depleted Uranium Carried From Europe to U.S.

By Brian Ross, Rhonda Schwartz
and David Scott
ABC News

Sept. 11 — On July 4, in a train station in Europe, a suitcase containing 15 pounds of depleted uranium, shielded by a steel pipe with a lead lining, began a secret 25-day, seven-country journey. Its destination was the United States

It was the kind of uranium that — if highly enriched — would, by some estimates, provide about half the material required for a crude nuclear device and more than enough for a so-called dirty bomb — a nightmare scenario for U.S. authorities.

"I would say that the single largest, most urgent threat to Americans today is the threat of nuclear terrorism," said Graham Allison, an expert on nuclear terrorism. Allison is the director of the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government and a former assistant secretary of defense.

This suitcase's journey was not part of a terrorist plot, but rather part of an ABCNEWS investigation into whether American authorities could, in fact, stop a shipment of radioactive material. The depleted uranium packed in the suitcase was not highly enriched and therefore not dangerous, but similar in many other key respects.

In other words, to the to the human eye or to an X-ray scanner, the depleted uranium would look the same as an actual radioactive shipment.

ABCNEWS' project was designed with the help of three of the world's leading authorities on nuclear terrorism: Dr. Thomas Cochran, senior scientist and nuclear weapons expert with the Natural Resources Defense Council, an environmental group that lent the depleted uranium to ABCNEWS for the investigation; Dr. Fritz Steinhausler of Stanford University in California and the University of Salzburg in Austria; and Allison of Harvard's Belfer Center.

"It is a perfect mockup," said Cochran. "It replicates everything but the capability to explode.

This is what looking for, or should be looking for," he added, "and this is what they absolutely have to stop."

"What I hope your program will help people do, is say, 'My God, this could really happen.' And this could really happen," said Allison. "There things we could do to prevent it."

Route Well-Traveled by Smugglers

Starting in Austria on July 4, the suitcase began its journey by rail, traveling first across the border to Hungary, where the ABCNEWS team's passports were checked — but there was no inspection of the suitcase. From there, it was on to Romania, through the Transylvanian Alps, across the fields of Bulgaria and into Turkey — all without even one inspection of the suitcase.

This is precisely the route and the method authorities say has been used in the past to transport radioactive material smuggled out of the former Soviet Union. But throughout the 47-hour European rail trip, the suitcase, packed with depleted uranium, sat untouched on a rack in the cabin. ABCNEWS saw no evidence of radiation detectors in use anywhere.

"Well, that's a pretty good test," said Allison. "I would have wished or hoped that you would have at least gotten some look."

But there was nothing. The suitcase traveled all the way to Istanbul, Turkey, which is considered a hub of the world's nuclear black market. Steinhausler, an expert in weapons trafficking who has compiled a database of nuclear-smuggling incidents, described it as "a crossroad between a leaking Central Asian region and possibly a receptive Middle East."

Turkish authorities report they have detected more than 100 cases of such attempted smuggling in the last few years.

ABCNEWS was doing what some law enforcement officials say al Qaeda terrorists have known how to do for years.

"For a decade, they've sought nuclear weapons," said Allison." bin Laden has said it is his and al Qaeda's religious duty … to acquire nuclear weapons."

Documents in Arabic seized from one of bin Laden's top aides five years ago show how he apparently planned to use shipping containers packed with sesame seeds as part of a plan to smuggle high-grade radioactive material to the United States.

Allison is concerned that what ABCNEWS did as a test may have already been done for real. "There's no reason to think that they haven't," he said.

Suitcase Labeled ‘Depleted Uranium’

Hours after the ABCNEWS team arrived in Istanbul, the suitcase of radioactive material was prepared for shipment by sea to the United States. The suitcase was placed inside an ornamental Turkish chest that was carefully marked as containing depleted uranium, in case inspectors discovered it.

Then, in the middle of a busy Istanbul street, the chest itself was crated and nailed shut. The crate containing the suitcase was then nestled alongside crates of huge vases and Turkish horse carts in a large metal shipping container that was ordered from a company that arranges shipments to the United States.

"If it were a real weapon, you know, that you'd managed to get out of the Soviet inventory, would fit in this container," said Allison. "A battlefield nuclear weapon, an artillery shell would fit fine in there."

The company hired to handle the shipping did not know, nor did its workers check to see, what was inside the crate. The company told ABCNEWS this week that it is re-evaluating its practices in light of this report.

The container, with the suitcase inside, left Istanbul on July 10, bound for the Port of New York, where U.S. Customs Service officials have very publicly claimed they've made huge improvements to prevent anything radioactive from getting through.

"We're doing everything we possibly can to keep terrorists and terrorists weapons out of this country," said Customs Commissioner Robert Bonner.

At 2 a.m. on July 29, the ship carrying this suitcase cleared the Verrazano Bridge and entered New York Harbor. At this point, no one had asked a single a question about what was in the container.

A Dangerous Delivery Device

This scenario was too close for comfort for Allison, who explained that a weapon smuggled in this way could be armed in advance and ready to fire — and the ship could be the delivery device.

"The ship, I think, is one of the most dangerous delivery devices," said Allison. "A weapon or material in the belly of a ship has been one of the nightmare scenarios for people that think about how nuclear weapons might arrive in the U.S."

The ship carrying the container was tied up at the Staten Island dock in New York, where the Customs Service says it has a state-of-the-art system in place to detect even a small, low-level amount of radioactive material.

"We're doing whatever it takes to screen the high-risk containers," said customs inspector Kevin McCabe, the chief of the contraband enforcement team, who did not know about the test when he demonstrated the screening measures to ABCNEWS.

During an interview in August, he gave ABCNEWS the same demonstration he said he had given to President Bush when he visited the port. McCabe displayed the small radiation pager used by inspectors, which he said could detect even a shielded, low-level radiation shipment — like depleted uranium.

In addition, the customs inspector demonstrated a second screening device, an X-ray scanning machine on wheels, used on suspect containers to detect even small items.

"The inspector should see even if it's something small, unusual density, unusual something … would lead us to strip that container and look," said McCabe. "If we can't tell exactly what is in that container by those screenings, we're going to get into that container and find out for ourselves."

And while the shipping container holding ABCNEWS' suitcase was selected by customs for this kind of screening, it sailed right through the inspection and left the port without ever being opened by customs inspectors. And a few days after its arrival in the United States, the container was on the back of a truck headed for New York City.

Customs Defends Detection Capabilities

Bonner, the customs commissioner, says his inspectors correctly singled out the container for screening and would have detected anything truly dangerous.

"We ran it for radiation detection and we also did a large-scale X-ray," he said. "Nothing appeared that would indicate that there was a potential for a nuclear device to be in the container."

When asked why a large piece of metal in the shipment of Turkish horse carts didn't stand out, Bonner responded, "Well, look I'm not gonna get into it … We have the X-ray pictures."

Bonner refused to show ABCNEWS what the Customs Service saw on the X-ray scans taken by its equipment. But when ABCNEWS later put the suitcase through a much less sophisticated X-ray machine, the outline of the depleted uranium in its shielded casing was clear. It looked like a pipe bomb was inside.

The experts ABCNEWS consulted say that with the screening devices custom officials said they used on the shipping container, without opening the crate there would be no way for customs inspectors to know whether the material was the low-level, safe, depleted uranium of the kind used by ABCNEWS in this investigation, or the highly enriched, dangerous uranium that could be used in nuclear weapons.

"If you didn't detect this, you wouldn't have detected … the real thing," said Cochran. " missed it and he's covering up."

Cochran says the ABCNEWS test demonstrated an important shortcoming of the customs screening process — that the radiation pagers are essentially useless unless the pager is placed right on top of the radioactive material. "U.S. Customs absolutely … missed it," he said.

‘We Are Not Safe’

Finally, the container was taken to a New York Port Authority warehouse on Pier No. 1, just across the river from lower Manhattan, at the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge.

When the crate was pulled out, it was easy to see it had never been opened since leaving Istanbul.

Port Authority police are assigned to this warehouse facility, but there are no radiation detectors there and no one asked about the unusual shipment in a container full of Turkish horse carts.

"If that were a weapon and you blew it up, you would have very, very substantial consequences," said Allison.

The material ABCNEWS moved was not dangerous and entirely legal to transport.

"You provided an illustration, a vivid illustration of the fact that this could happen tomorrow," Allison said. "We are not safe. Not safe from that."

  

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foxnesn
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Wed Sep-10-03 02:52 PM

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2. "RE: ABC News smuggles depleted uranium past U.S. border"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

see this kinda thing makes me lean back to the libertarian side of things. the fact is, after the world has ended and all is said and done, whoever created this crazy place will look back and declare that government, no matter who runs it, will always fail.

  

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dhalgren718
Member since Jun 20th 2002
16992 posts
Wed Sep-10-03 03:09 PM

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3. "No, foxxxy..."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

MORONS will always fail. And when you collect upwards of two-hundred morons, arm them with a class-inspired sense of indignance and moral contrivance, and validate them with a written code of law; YOU GET THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT.

You need a mighty fast-talker to ride herd on a tribe of morons, foxxxy... and Jorge Bush is a fast talker the way Anna Kournokova is a great tennis player...

http://50yearsfromnow.blogspot.com
MONGO IS A RACIST PIECE OF SHIT.

  

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foxnesn
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Wed Sep-10-03 10:05 PM

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8. "who is more idealistic?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

believing in no government, or believing that the right people will be placed in government?

  

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dhalgren718
Member since Jun 20th 2002
16992 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 02:51 AM

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12. "We're BOTH idiots..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

... because we think things can be different and have hold out some weird tiny piece of hope that it will be, one day.

http://50yearsfromnow.blogspot.com
MONGO IS A RACIST PIECE OF SHIT.

  

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foxnesn
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Thu Sep-11-03 07:39 AM

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20. "ill drink to that!"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

n/m

  

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Expertise
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Wed Sep-10-03 06:35 PM

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7. "but..."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

most libertarians, at least toting the party line, would have open borders no matter what. Hence, they wouldn't see a problem with this, per se.

I can't go with that. Too many kinds of WMDs that can obliterate a couple million people. That's why I can't back Browne and others like I have in the past, at least foreign-policy wise.

"Then the idiot who praises with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this and every country but his own"
Gilbert and Sullivan, The Mikado

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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foxnesn
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Wed Sep-10-03 10:06 PM

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9. "yea"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

this is where i follow pat buchannann. i guess im all over the place.

  

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Expertise
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Thu Sep-11-03 01:33 AM

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10. "ugh."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

I could never follow Pat Buchanan.

Michelle Malkin, maybe, but not Buchanan.

"Then the idiot who praises with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this and every country but his own"
Gilbert and Sullivan, The Mikado

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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Belief
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Wed Sep-10-03 05:42 PM

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4. "well"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I've gotta say that this is just one example of the many times the media has gotten things - and people - into America. The borders between Mexico and southern California, Arizona and New Mexico are in great need of border patrol officers. Every night, hundreds of illegal immigrants cross from Mexico into US land...but who else is crossing with them? And even though some border patrol officers watch them cross the border, they are unable to do anything about it because they are greatly outnumbered and lack sufficient back up. I remember right after the attacks in '01, Mexico became a focal point for reporters/military/government to watch for terrorists coming into the country among Mexican aliens...apparently, that has slacked off.


***************************
I just made you up
to hurt myself
and it worked
yes it did!

  

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spirit
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Wed Sep-10-03 06:04 PM

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5. "if this happened while Clinton was in office..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...you'd never hear the end of it.

Sigh.

Maybe the media has a conservative bias? Just a bit?

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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eyeslee
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Thu Sep-11-03 02:13 AM

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11. "RE: if this happened while Clinton was in office..."
In response to Reply # 5


          

That's true. And we might not have a conservative media, but we sure as hell don't have a liberal one. We have a media that reports on what the white house wants it to report on. Seems like all the news outlets get the memo from the white house telling them what they are going talk about that day. This whole liberal media claim is beyond ridiculous.

  

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foxnesn
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Thu Sep-11-03 04:16 AM

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13. "RE: if this happened while Clinton was in office..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

jumping to conclusions a bit? watch world news tonight (this thursday) and primetime thursday, and you will see the official report. heh. and if you think the press reports things only the white house wants them to report about, how do you explain that to the new reporters who are about to be sued.

  

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eyeslee
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Thu Sep-11-03 05:07 AM

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15. "RE: if this happened while Clinton was in office..."
In response to Reply # 13


          

I'm sorry I wasn't very specific. I didn't mean to imply that the media ONLY covers things that the white house wants them to.
Of course they cover other things, but it seems that the lead stories, the op-eds and all the frontpage headlines come straight from the white house press releases. Talk radio and cable news read straight from the press release. They all cover the same thing every day.
No, I don't think I'm jumping to conclusions. It's all pretty blatant and obvious if you can see and/or hear.

  

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foxnesn
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Thu Sep-11-03 07:40 AM

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21. "RE: if this happened while Clinton was in office..."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

the op-eds in the new york times and the la times and the chicago tribune all have liberal slants.

  

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Expertise
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Thu Sep-11-03 04:58 AM

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14. "and how many times..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

did ABC tried to do this while Clinton was in office?

I'd probably bet none.

And there is a news story on the website, and they placed the blame solely on the shoulders of this administration, as usual.

"Then the idiot who praises with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this and every country but his own"
Gilbert and Sullivan, The Mikado

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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keithdawg
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Thu Sep-11-03 09:43 AM

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23. "Clinton didn't launch"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

A multi-hundred-billion dollar war on terrorism, adamantly claiming he would protect us against ‘those who hate our freedom’, yet carelessly allocating much of those billions of dollars towards fighting a country that has never posed a threat to American national security.

"You fasten all the triggers,
For the others to fire,
Then you sit back and watch,
As the death count gets higher"-Bob Dylan

"Maybe you'll be president,
But know right from wrong,
Or in the flood,
You'll build an Ark,
And sail us to the moon"-Thom Yorke

"I'm in heaven trying to figure out which stack they're going to stuff us atheists into,
When Peter and his monkey laugh and i laugh with them,
I'm not sure what at,
They point and say we'll keep you in the back polishing halos, baking manna and gas"-Modest Mouse

Do yourself a favor,
Be your own savior.

Daniel Johnston

  

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kid
Member since Jul 10th 2002
4436 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 10:16 AM

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24. "RE: Clinton didn't launch"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>adamantly
>claiming he would protect us against ‘those who hate our
>freedom

"There ought to be limits to freedom" George Bush

***********************************
StLOKp's�: DawgEatah, Dstl1, hyde, Colonel Sanders, MisterGrump, Afrotec, Instant_Vintage, ThaTruth, Soul1908, SefConscious, Baldheadslik, YngblkprinceMD, 314confidential, rdiggity, Kid

Honorable mention:auragin_boi

  

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Expertise
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37848 posts
Fri Sep-12-03 01:49 AM

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30. "you're right..."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

He didn't launch a war on terrorism.

But the problem is, he should have.

"Then the idiot who praises with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this and every country but his own"
Gilbert and Sullivan, The Mikado

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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keithdawg
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Fri Sep-12-03 04:19 AM

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31. "True ..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

But I would like to see a prez who launches a war on the causes of terrorism ... the Bush administration tactics only serve as fodder to additional terrorism.

If Bush was allocating the ridiculous amounts of money towards actually safeguarding the country, I'd give him a high five ... as far as I know, Iraq has NEVER killed an American civilian.

"You fasten all the triggers,
For the others to fire,
Then you sit back and watch,
As the death count gets higher"-Bob Dylan

"Maybe you'll be president,
But know right from wrong,
Or in the flood,
You'll build an Ark,
And sail us to the moon"-Thom Yorke

"I'm in heaven trying to figure out which stack they're going to stuff us atheists into,
When Peter and his monkey laugh and i laugh with them,
I'm not sure what at,
They point and say we'll keep you in the back polishing halos, baking manna and gas"-Modest Mouse

Do yourself a favor,
Be your own savior.

Daniel Johnston

  

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Expertise
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37848 posts
Wed Sep-10-03 06:31 PM

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6. "ha."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This is really funny. Although the Bush Administration does deserve strict criticism, what makes you think it would have been so much better with a leftist alternative?

Clinton virtually ignored terrorism. In fact, his administration's policies are precisely the reason 9/11 happened in the first place. And even an idiot knew that government takeovers and concentrations of security orgs does not automatically mean security checkpoints are airtight.

"Then the idiot who praises with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this and every country but his own"
Gilbert and Sullivan, The Mikado

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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johnny_domino
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Thu Sep-11-03 05:16 AM

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16. "but if security is no better"
In response to Reply # 6
Thu Sep-11-03 05:17 AM

  

          

than what have we gained with Bush's "war on terrorism"/"homeland security" agenda? This is his major, defining issue. And he can't even get that right.

  

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dhalgren718
Member since Jun 20th 2002
16992 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 06:36 AM

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17. "RE: haOkay."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

I keep hearing that line from Cons. Here's the deal:

Whether Clinton's policy was to blame or not (I can't recall a single attack on American soil during his reign, except oh yeah, Tim McVeigh) doesn't change the fact that the attack happened on Bush's watch.

He has veterans of almost every Republican regime since Nixon on his staff - are you implying that they were neither competent nor capable of dealing with a problem, even after having acclimated to office months earlier? It' snot like he had a bunch of neophytes running around like scared chickens...

http://50yearsfromnow.blogspot.com
MONGO IS A RACIST PIECE OF SHIT.

  

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Expertise
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37848 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 06:53 AM

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19. "RE: haOkay."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

WTC 1, the Hotel Bombings (I forgot where, but it was a few weeks later somewhere in the middle east), The embassy bombings, the attack on the U.S. Cole...

what, are they only relevant when they are on U.S. soil? The point is that they attacked us. And Clinton in each of these either did little or nothing about it.

In fact, Sudanese officials were willing to go out and capture bin Laden for him, and Clinton said no.

Bush might not have everything straightened out, but at least he has tried and improved on some things. Clinton nor any other Democrat has done anything to improve our situation while in power.

"Then the idiot who praises with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this and every country but his own"
Gilbert and Sullivan, The Mikado

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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dhalgren718
Member since Jun 20th 2002
16992 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 09:23 AM

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22. "WTC 1"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

... you're right. But that was EARLY in Clinton's career, yes. Not unlike how 9/11 was early in Bush's career. So by your standards of attrition, HOW IS THAT NOT BUSH ONE'S FAULT?

Clinton's foreign policy amounted to 'don't rattle the bee's nest.' His policy reflected a softer approach to expanding U.S. goals, very much like Carter. Please explain how it weakened us as a nation.

Bush Two OPENED HIS PRESIDENCY BY CALLING IRAQ, IRAN AND N. KOREA an 'AXIS OF EVIL.' What did he think, they'd sit back and say, 'Hey, y'know? He's right! Let's let all our political prisoners go and start opening McDonalds!'

http://50yearsfromnow.blogspot.com
MONGO IS A RACIST PIECE OF SHIT.

  

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M2
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Thu Sep-11-03 11:22 AM

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27. "Explain"
In response to Reply # 19


          


How having a GOP Administration in office would've prevented 9/11?

Particularly when the terrorist attacks that happened during Reagan and Bush Sr's administration were in some cases worse than what happened during Clinton's?

Or better yet, since it was Reagan's policies towards afghanistan that gave Bin Ladin and his cronies a good deal of the training that they turned and used against us?

Couldn't you say that Bush Sr. and Reagan not doing more to fight terrorism, gave terrorists the balls to try 9/11?

Couldn't you also say that Bush Sr. and Regan's policies were what angered people to the point where they attempted terroist attacks on our soil?

The Bush Administration is run by experienced people - they've been there before, you mean to tell me that there was NOTHING they could've done to prevent 9/11 - even though they were in office for 21 months beforehand and are experienced people?

If we're going to fair and objective about this - you have to say that the reason Iraq was taken down so easily, didn't scramble a single fighter jet and possessed not a single weapon of mass destruction, is due to Clinton era policies, as well as the times he attacked Iraq (which he did several times) whenever Iraqi Pilots violated the no-fly zone or there were issues with the inspectors.

People seem to forget how many times Clinton attacked Iraq.

Also - Clinton launched cruise missile strikes on places he suspected Bin Ladin was located in, right after the embassy attacks and was unsuccessful and was even at times accussed by the GOP of looking to take attention away from his own problems.

Considering the attack in lockerbie Scotland, the attack on the Marines in Beirut (Which just led to the US leaving the area) the hostage crisis and numerous other attacks on US Foreign Interests, shouldn't Reagan and Bush Sr. have done something?

My reserve Unit was attached to a unit in Korea, so the Korean Situation of 93' was very present in my mind back then - Clinton (IMO) defused it better than Bush is, all Bush has done is denote them as the enemy, and act Tough - which doesn't really help the situation.

As it is - 9/11 happened, we're still in danger from similar attacks, we've attacked two nations that were not a threat to us(I say this even though I supported the Afghanistan war - but in retrospect, what did we gain?) lost countless American lives in the process, eroded our own civil liberties in the name of freedom and have made American an even more hated country - which can only lead to more people willing to attack us.

So, what exactly have we gained with Bush in office?

From the looks of things - 9/11 would've happened with or without Clinton in office, we could've had another four years of Bush Sr. and be in our second term of Bush Jr. (and some other GOP candidate) and we 9/11 still would've happened.

The first attack (obviously planned during the Bush Sr. administration) failed, so they planned a bigger one, whomever the president was, wouldn't have changed that.

As it is - if it was such a huge issue or powder keg, the GOP should've used their power in congress to push for policies that would've prevented it AND or used it as a campaign issue.

Blaming this on one president/administration - instead of our government as a whole, in terms of foreign policy and national defense strategy, is stupid.

The intelligence community doesn't say "Clinton is in office" let's stop looking for threats.

Finally - here is a quick anecdote -


In the reserves one of my units biggest concerns was attacks on US soil, particularly since many of our leadership came from the intelligence & special operations communities, but the conversation would end like this:

"But the US is too big a Land Mass, and we have the right to bear arms, there will never be a major attack on US Soil" Let's worry about X, Y, Z overseas.

That's why we got attacked - that attitude right there, which is independent of who is in office.



Peace,









M2


The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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kid
Member since Jul 10th 2002
4436 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 06:49 AM

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18. "RE: ha."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

A shitload of programs Clinton introduced to combat terrorism where either canceled or put on hold just after Busch took office.
There was even a report that stated bin laden wanted to hijack a plane and crash it into an American building, Busch ignored it.
Before 9/11 Busch had met with his cabinet members regaurding such a possibility maybe once, while Clinton was regurally holding weekly meetings.

For 2 1/2 years a US Commission on National Security/21st Century
was compliling reports on how to combat terrorism, and Busch decided that Cheney was going to investigate, and the entire report was ignored.

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Honorable mention:auragin_boi

  

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M2
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Thu Sep-11-03 10:54 AM

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25. "You can't use Depleted Uranium to make Nuclear Weapons"
In response to Reply # 0


          


It's typically used to make armor piercing shells by the Military.

I'm sure it's a controlled material - but in general, unless terrorists are going to smuggle it into the US and make Armor Piercing shells, that they're going to load into a 60 ton tank (which is really hard to hide) and start lobbing artillery rounds at the local police station......

.........it's not extremely significant, it's not like it's something you can use to make a bomb.



Peace,





M2



The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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kid
Member since Jul 10th 2002
4436 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 11:04 AM

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26. "RE: You can't use Depleted Uranium to make Nuclear Weap"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

In other words, to the to the human eye or to an X-ray scanner, the depleted uranium would look the same as an actual radioactive shipment.

"It is a perfect mockup," said Cochran. "It replicates everything but the capability to explode."

"If you didn't detect this, you wouldn't have detected … the real thing," said Cochran. " missed it and he's covering up."


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StLOKp's�: DawgEatah, Dstl1, hyde, Colonel Sanders, MisterGrump, Afrotec, Instant_Vintage, ThaTruth, Soul1908, SefConscious, Baldheadslik, YngblkprinceMD, 314confidential, rdiggity, Kid

Honorable mention:auragin_boi

  

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M2
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Thu Sep-11-03 11:26 AM

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28. "Depleted Uranium isn't radioactive"
In response to Reply # 26
Thu Sep-11-03 11:27 AM

          

Well, it is.....but the radiation is low level to the point where as long as it is outside of the body, it can't hurt you.

In fact, it even has civilian uses on planes and boats.

Where it poses a danger is on the Battlefield where after it's been used as an artillery round and exploded, it can enter the body as dust or small particles, and in high dosages, can hurt you.

But in it's normal state, it's about as radioactive as the typical low-level radiation we already encounter.


Peace,






M2

The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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kid
Member since Jul 10th 2002
4436 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 11:34 AM

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29. "RE: Depleted Uranium isn't radioactive"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I know, but as a test, this was perfect, not dangerous, but the same ish that they are supposed to look for.

Remember the Anwar II? We were only able to intercept that ship, and detect it's nuclear payload, because we had gotten tipped off. So if we didn't know that nuclear material was already on it's way, we probably wouldn't have been able to detect it.

Peace

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StLOKp's�: DawgEatah, Dstl1, hyde, Colonel Sanders, MisterGrump, Afrotec, Instant_Vintage, ThaTruth, Soul1908, SefConscious, Baldheadslik, YngblkprinceMD, 314confidential, rdiggity, Kid

Honorable mention:auragin_boi

  

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