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Subject: "How do I get into best physical shape possible?" This topic is locked.
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k_orr
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80197 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 05:44 AM

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"How do I get into best physical shape possible?"


  

          

Sparked from a post on GD yesterday.

I'm not obese. I'm actually kinda a skiny.
But I'm not seeing a 6 pack anytime soon.

Let's start a discussion on physical fitness.
- importance
- benefits
- downsides
- routines
- maintenance
- diet
- exercise

one
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I would recommend, along with weight training & cardio
Sep 18th 2003
1
good question....
Sep 18th 2003
2
RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?
Sep 18th 2003
3
RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?
Sep 18th 2003
5
RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?
Sep 18th 2003
6
RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?
Sep 22nd 2003
28
RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?
Sep 18th 2003
7
i'm gonna do it
Sep 18th 2003
8
You need to take rest days
Sep 18th 2003
10
Give it 30 days
Sep 19th 2003
11
      No Offense..........
Sep 19th 2003
13
           RE: No Offense..........
Sep 19th 2003
16
                RE: No Offense..........
Sep 20th 2003
21
you ll be thin and fit but...
Sep 20th 2003
18
36 hour schedule...
Sep 22nd 2003
29
RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?
Sep 24th 2003
32
This is what I've been doing
Sep 18th 2003
4
are you vegan?
Sep 20th 2003
19
      RE: are you vegan?
Sep 20th 2003
23
      Well...
Sep 24th 2003
35
RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?
Sep 18th 2003
9
cardio before weights is wrong
Sep 20th 2003
20
      I disagree
Sep 20th 2003
22
           i see where you are coming from
Sep 20th 2003
24
                RE: i see where you are coming from
Sep 20th 2003
25
aren't there enough books about this?
Sep 19th 2003
12
i started a month ago doing this routine:
Sep 19th 2003
14
RE: i started a month ago doing this routine:
Sep 19th 2003
15
RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?
Sep 19th 2003
17
if you're looking to sculpt
Sep 21st 2003
26
40 days to feeling better:
Sep 21st 2003
27
I fully endorse this
Sep 24th 2003
31
      exactly!
Sep 24th 2003
34
up
Sep 23rd 2003
30
Round is a "shape"
Sep 24th 2003
33

Belief
Charter member
18452 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 06:06 AM

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1. "I would recommend, along with weight training & cardio"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

either yoga or pilates...only because they both help with deep muscle strengthening. I've had bulked up guys in my yoga classes who can't hold the poses, not because they're difficult poses, but because they require core strength.

but I say yes to weight training and cardio is a must. as far as the diet goes, that varies from person to person, so I can't really say (as a vegetarian) what's best for anyone else to eat.


***************************
I just made you up
to hurt myself
and it worked
yes it did!

  

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Trinity444
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41702 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 06:43 AM

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2. "good question...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Im interested in some routines.

Starting to work out with my boss. Im rather small in most of the "problem areas"...looking more to tone.

  

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Walleye
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15279 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 08:10 AM

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3. "RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-18-03 08:20 AM

          

Don't reject this for its simplicity:

Run twice a day, every single day. Start as small as you need to but make sure you repeat in the afternoon/evening what you did in the morning. Don't take days off.

As far as the categories you outlined for a discussion, the benefits of this are severalfold: 1. it's cheap... running shoes are generally replaced every 500 miles - compare this to a gym membership 2. You never hear anyone say, "I just finished a month's worth of 100 mile weeks and I can't seem to get in shape". 3. Avoiding rest days changes the low standards we've set for ourselves - if its been a given for the past six months that I will run today, then I can't rationalize my way out of it. 4. Though some are preferable, you don't need a specific venue or climate to do this. In the lower 48 states, there is no area where you can't do this all year 'round.

The downsides are mostly that it is tiring and rather unpleasant. You also might get injured. Listen to your body and that probably wont happen.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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4thamoney
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281 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 04:07 PM

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5. "RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?"
In response to Reply # 3


          

In the lower 48 states, there is no area where you
>can't do this all year 'round.
>

Have you ever been to Chicago?

Other than this line, you're on point, though I refuse to run for the sake of running.

If you're going to start running, make sure you get quality shoes, and start small. It's high impact, so if joints start to hurt (feet, ankles, knees, hips, etc.), see a doctor immediately, and get physical therapy.

  

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Walleye
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15279 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 04:22 PM

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6. "RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?"
In response to Reply # 5


          

I live in Chicago. I moved here from Minneapolis.

I'm confident enough in my frame of reference to stand by that judgement.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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4thamoney
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281 posts
Mon Sep-22-03 03:31 AM

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28. "RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?"
In response to Reply # 6


          

For those of you who don't know, let me give you an example:

My wife trained for a marathon a couple of years back. The race was in February. Her 20 mile run was done in 10 degree weather, with freezing rain. Her 15 mile run was done in 5 degree weather in snow.

If you're comfortale running in that, be my guest.

  

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Walleye
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15279 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 04:24 PM

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7. "RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?"
In response to Reply # 5


          

>though I refuse to
>run for the sake of running.

That's a good point. Its hard to do anything day-after-day without seeing any big-picture type goal along with it.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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k_orr
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80197 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 04:46 PM

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8. "i'm gonna do it"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

  

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M2
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10072 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 06:28 PM

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10. "You need to take rest days"
In response to Reply # 3
Thu Sep-18-03 06:30 PM

          

After all, the Kenyans crush everyone in running events and they take rest days, hell, take to any top runner or coach and he'll tell you the importance of rest.

Also, for a lot of people, it will be effective to just train once a day, constant two-a-days will lead to overtraining.

Training Twice a day is best for times when you need to make a leap in terms of increasing your fitness level/ability to perform - provided you do it for a short period of time.

A better schedule is to run 4x a week, and then cross-train on the fifth day and add in other exercises as well, like say you run 2 miles, hit the track for intervals and then lift.

Or run 2 miles, swim for 30 minutes, etc.

Effective Training 4-5x a week, once a day, will trump training twice a day every day with ease, particularly in the area of performance.

College & High School track teams are full of athletes who overtrain and either hurt themselves or their ability to perform.





Peace,






M2

The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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Walleye
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15279 posts
Fri Sep-19-03 05:37 AM

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11. "Give it 30 days"
In response to Reply # 10


          

>College & High School track teams are full of athletes who
>overtrain and either hurt themselves or their ability to
>perform.

College and High School track teams are more full of athletes who undertrain due to a fear of overtraining and never reach their full potential. I was one of them, and I wasted the best years I had worrying about injuring myself. I never got injured, but I did become the smartest training slow guy you'll ever meet. You can't burn out until you catch fire.

Run everyday, twice a day, for 30 days. Doing this made me realize how silly my standards were for taking days off - they were almost entirely a product of me reasoning my way out. People say "listen to your body" - but if you've never really tested your body over a longer period of time, you can't really know what it's saying to you. I prefer to group injuries into the repititive use variety and the sudden, catastrophic variety. The latter is unpredictable and momentary and therefore has no genuine relation to the amount of time and frequency you spend training. The former shows up in signs before a real problem and is therefore predictable, and I think an obvious correlary to what I suggested is that if you're getting injured, stop running.

These injuries are also easily preventable - don't stretch until you've gone a few miles and avoid statis stretching as much as possible. Monitor your shins, knees and ankles particularly areas that have been problems in the past. If pain is specific and repetitive - then you've got a problem and you should take a day off.

The threat of shin splints is always present. I live in the city, so this is impossible, but anytime people can run on grass or unpaved trails, they should take advantage of that opportunity. Also, to prevent shin splints, at least five nights a week, drop a few pencils on the floor and pick them up with your toes. Do this with both feet several times. Some people like to use marbles, but my toes aren't that agile. The nice thing is that this takes about fifteen minutes and you can do it at home, on the phone, reading, while you're on the TV, etc.

After 30 days, people can genuinely listen to their bodies without their big brains getting in the way.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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M2
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10072 posts
Fri Sep-19-03 08:04 AM

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13. "No Offense.........."
In response to Reply # 11
Fri Sep-19-03 08:05 AM

          

......but that's another issue all together, called "Laziness"

Because if you were a runner, you knew plenty of people who trained with very high intensity 5 days out of the week, competed on Saturday and who straight up needed to take Sunday off.

If you need to train twice daily to break bad habits, than fine -but if your intensity is on point, you don't need to do that and rest periods are in fact needed.

Like I said - world record holders are extoling the virtues of rest, but of course, their intensity is never a problem.

After all - even Navy SEALS take a day off while going through training, and of course, the Lazy People/People who didn't put out intensity wise, were sent home.



Peace,








M2

The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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Walleye
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15279 posts
Fri Sep-19-03 11:02 AM

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16. "RE: No Offense.........."
In response to Reply # 13


          

>Like I said - world record holders are extoling the virtues
>of rest, but of course, their intensity is never a problem.

I don't believe you. Give me specific examples. Since you're making judgements as to my intensity and my laziness (which is fair, since I used my personal experience in the first place) we'll use my frame of reference - mid-distance and distance runners. In the article by Bob Timmons, Jim Ryun's coach called "How He Trains" he has the three months before Ryun's world record 800 where he took 2 total days off. Abel Anton - no scheduled days off in any of the three "microcycles" of his training towards a 2:07 marathon. None for Frank Shorter either, the last American to medal in a distance event. Tom Fleming ran around 140 mile weeks for six years. The most scheduled rest I could find was Hicham El Guerrouj, WR holder in the 1500, who has about two days off every three weeks. If you want more recent examples, I can dig those up because I know I'm right, but thats not my point. I'm not asking anybody to train as hard as Jim Ryun did, I'm asking them to take a month to understand that they haven't even scratched the surface with regards to what their body can handle.

http://run-down.com/guests/mv_el_guerrouj.php
http://merv.stanford.edu/webbbs/halloffame-config.pl?read=81
http://merv.stanford.edu/webbbs/halloffame-config.pl?read=73
http://merv.stanford.edu/webbbs/halloffame-config.pl?read=99

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

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M2
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10072 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 01:29 PM

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21. "RE: No Offense.........."
In response to Reply # 16


          


I'm going to guess, that like me, you competed for at least eight years, (High School & College) - if so, than you know that there were some people who could train at a higher intensity than others.

Right?

I'd think we'd also agree that after years of training, you and I can do things that beginners can't (or shouldn't be doing).

This is especially true with training, particularly with regards to intensity or rest.

I often go for 30-90 days without taking a break - because I can, it won't bother me, my body recovers when I'm sleeping, but I've built up to that.

For people who are asking advice on training, E.g. Beginners - doing something would result in burnout and injuries.


And like I said, even Navy Seals/Rangers/Special Ops folks in general, take a day off whilst going through their training routines and they're in better shape than most of us will ever be.

Look at this beginners marathon training program:

http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300,1-51-56-633,00.html

Notice the rest days.

Another training program:

http://www.runnersworld.com/home/0,1300,1-51-55-638,00.html

This program is for more of an advanced 5k runner - but it includes rest days.

Granted, these programs are both rather easy, but they'll get the average person into excellent shape and they should easily avoid overtraining.

Because we are talking about beginners here.

Let's even look at some extreme Kenyan workouts:

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0387.htm

At various phases they have rest days, or very easy runs, which are mostly to help fight soreness than anything else - and the pace these guys train at, those easy runs of 30 minutes at an easy pace, are like taking two days off for other extremely fit people.

And the Kenyans do take 4-6 weeks off of no running at all, so it evens out.

The point is that you do need to push yourself to extremes to reach your maximum level of fitness, but you do need to rest, especially if you're a normal person who isn't trying to win the World Marathon Title.

I could dig up some training prgrams from my runner's world collection if you want to discuss this further, but practically everyone's training program has an "easy day" "rest day" "Cross-training day/pool day" - which means they may be excercising, but not running or training at such a low intensity that it's basically rest anyway.

E.g. I can see your point about pushing yourself past your limits, but you don't need to train 2x a day for 30 days straight to get there.

Effective training coupled by rest days is the way to go. Particularly when you consider that 1 rest day a month for middle distance guy XYZ, is roughly equivalent to one day off a week for the average person, when you factor in fitness level, ability to recover, etc.


Peace,






M2


The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 12:43 PM

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18. "you ll be thin and fit but..."
In response to Reply # 3


          

you ll have no strength or muscle. i for one would rather have good strength levels as well as good cardio fitness.

if someone went to the gym, warmed up with 10 minutes of cardio, hit the weights(properly) for 30-45 minutes, then finished up with 20-30 minutes or interval cardio and yoga based stretching, that would be a much more complete workout

ftiness has 3 aspects really: strength, endurance, and flexibility. to neglect one or more aspects is pretty silly

www.a-resilient-body.com

  

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love2000
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Mon Sep-22-03 04:40 AM

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29. "36 hour schedule..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          


>
>Run twice a day, every single day. Start as small as you
>need to but make sure you repeat in the afternoon/evening
>what you did in the morning. Don't take days off.
>

twice a day is overkill... If you aren't trying to prove anything to anyone, I'm convinced starting off one can run every 36 hours and get into shape. I don't have time to run twice a day. Every 36 hours is much more feasible. Morning today, afternoon tomorrow, day off, run the following morning.

When I was doing it, it worked out great and I felt like I was getting in shape. I've relegated myself to beer drinking and smoking now that football season has started... oh well.

-c

  

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universole
Member since Sep 21st 2003
4388 posts
Wed Sep-24-03 08:23 AM

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32. "RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

so i need to quit smoking.

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/violinsinhiphop

  

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MizClayton
Member since Feb 22nd 2003
33309 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 03:41 PM

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4. "This is what I've been doing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just to be real, I really haven't attained this routine as part of my daily life yet, I working on it, but it's my goal to get there...


But basically, I would like to start getting up around 6 before work to workout 20 or 30minutes, high intensity. I was excercising everyday, but since I started my new job, getting up at 6 ain't easy.

For breakfast (I DO do this everyday), drink a quart of water for cleansing. I'm going to start drinking fresh carrot juice.

Fruit for a mid morning snack.

an all raw lunch, usually a big ol' salad. With a whole buch of different veggies. I find you don't need dressing because the vegetables themselves such as pepper and onions possess nature's own flavors. I may add a little olive oil or sea salt.

celery or carrots for another snack.

Dinner will be 1 cooked item for the day, maybe a baked sweet potatoe, veggie sandwich, rice noodles, brown rice, steamed veggies, whatever....with another salad.

Then I have one last snack...being fruit.

I try to weight train 2 times a week...full body.

Drink half of my body in ouces of water.

It sounds hard, but once you get use to eat, if not only will get you inshape and detoxifies your body well.

For for further detoxying, if I can remember, I dry skin brush. Dry skin brushing cleansing your lymph system, and good for the skin. They say if you do it long enough, and consistently, you won't need lotion....I haven't gotten to that point.


I really try to look at it as honoring my body, and staying healthy. Not just looking good. Beauty if fleeting. But your health is something you have with you until you die. Think health and not vanity.

-ME------->http://Members.BlackPlanet.com/MangosandGrapes/

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 12:50 PM

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19. "are you vegan?"
In response to Reply # 4


          

you need more protein(you are basically eating almost none) and more water. you should also eat some form of carbohydrate within one hour of rising, or your body will feed on itself unless you ve been waking up in the middle of the night and raiding the fridge, lol

you should at least add some soy protein(if you re vegan) or another protein source, you should get half of your bodyweight in grams of protein per day, minimum. if you weigh 150, then you need 75 grams minimum

www.a-resilient-body.com

  

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M2
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10072 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 01:52 PM

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23. "RE: are you vegan?"
In response to Reply # 19


          

>you need more protein(you are basically eating almost none)
>and more water. you should also eat some form of
>carbohydrate within one hour of rising, or your body will
>feed on itself unless you ve been waking up in the middle of
>the night and raiding the fridge, lol
>
>you should at least add some soy protein(if you re vegan) or
>another protein source, you should get half of your
>bodyweight in grams of protein per day, minimum. if you
>weigh 150, then you need 75 grams minimum

I would say closer to 120-130g - 0.7 - 0.8g of protein per pound of body weight can be very effective performance wise, as a lot of athletes (endurance ones especially) are around the .5 mark and need more.

My Sr. year I found tremendous benefits by hovering between 0.8 - 1.0 - as did endurance athletes (I ran sprints) that ran longer distances.

Protein is good - if you use to much, your body will just burn it as energy, so don't worry about.

If you're a Vegan, lack of protein may be your biggest dietary issue right now.

I know it was for me back in my Near-Vegetarian days.


Peace,







M2


The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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MizClayton
Member since Feb 22nd 2003
33309 posts
Wed Sep-24-03 04:56 PM

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35. "Well..."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

I wouldn't call myself a vegan yet, I'm on my way there. It's funny, in the midst of all the protein craze, I never think about how much protein I'm getting. You're right I don't eat enough. I'm actually going to up my dairy for a while (some lowfat cottage cheese, 1 cup a day). I find it sooooooo difficult to get enough protein, stay lowfat, plus not eat awhole lot of processed carbs. It's like you have to have one and give another up, never both. So my diet, has been nothing put veggies and fruit practically. I can't be low fat, AND low carb, unless all I ate was veggies and tuna. Who can do that?? I can't, nor do I want to. I don't eat meat because of the hormon content and just the awful things they are doing to meat. And dairy forms a lot of mucous in the body. I wanted to be a raw foodist for the longest, but it's not for me. It just too extremely hard to live that way. It's already hard enough being a vegan.

-ME------->
http://Members.BlackPlanet.com/MangosandGrapes/

  

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M2
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10072 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 06:24 PM

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9. "RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?"
In response to Reply # 0


          


I don't have a lot of time to spend on this, so I'll make a quick post now and follow up later.

I'm going to ignore important and benefits - because those are well known and in the end, it's about you, not how I feel about it's importance.

If I don't keep myself in near the level of fitness I feel was neccessary for me to compete in track back in the day, or re-enlist, I just don't feel "right".

Other people I ran/served with, are in shape but don't keep themselves at my level and that's a personal choice.

E.g. How "Fit" you want to be, is up to you. Well damn, I guess I did address importance.

Diet - This one is relatively simple as well, your body is like a car engine that NEEDS premium fuel to function correctly, if you workout correctly and don't eat the right diet, you're almost wasting your time.

What the right diet consists of, is almost another post and in the end, is a personal thing, because what works for you, may not work for me. Perfect Example - I don't function well on Vegetarian/Vegan diets, others thrive on them.

Still - some basic guidelines.

High Protein is always good, particularly if you get it from a variety of sources. I still eat a lot of foods that Vegetarians would eat to get Protein, I just mix in meats for Variety.

0.7g to 1.0g per pound of body weight will do you just fine and if you go over, big deal, your body will burn for energy any proteins it doesn't use for building muscle.

I thrive on 1.0g per pound of body weight, I seemt to recover ridiculously fast and when I do get sore, it doesn't last long.

A friend seems to get the same benefits from 0.8 - again, you experiment and find what's best.


Carbs - If you're exercising, you need Carbs for energy, it's a Physiological Fact, BUT, your body can only handle so many per day. I hate throwing out numbers for Carbs, but I will say that 500 grams is pretty much the limit for everyone and depending your energy needs 300-400g should be fine.

What to eat is almost common sense, a good mixture of foods, fruits and vegetables, avoid foods that are high in fat, etc.

It's good to get some simple carbs before you workout, Yogurt is a great pre-workout food. After your workout, you want to get down some carbs and protein (I like a 4/1 ratio) as soon as possible, Rice & Fish or Rice and Chicken is a fave post workout meal of mine.

Regardless, plenty of information on that around and in the end, everything say works for me, may not work for you. The best thing to do is to research basic guidelines and then experiment.

I will say that if you're trying to pack on Muscle, you should eat an extra 300-400 calories/day.

Routines/Exercises:

My Typical Routine if I go to the Gym, is to do Cardio for 20-60 minutes, followed by lifting weights.

When I lift I either one of two things:

A routine in which I hit every muscle group (grueling), making sure to work opposing muscle groups together:

If I work my Quads I than work my Hamstrings.

If I work my chest, I than work my Back.

Shoulders than Arms, Biceps, followed by Triceps.

It's tough, because I'll sit on the Incline Bench and knock out 3 sets of Bicep Curls, and after the third set, I'll knock out 3 sets of the Military Press, trying to rest no longer than 45 seconds, or just long enough to get a new set of weights and get into position.

IF I don't lift like that, I just lift chest and back one day, shoulders and arms the next, only lift legs twice a week.

If I lift everything together, I only lift 3x a week, if I break things up I lift 5x.

I usually do reps of 10,6,4 - I like heavy weights and high reps.

However, I don't lift that much anymore......haven't done it much for the past year, as I've been focusing on body weight exercises.

Typical Routine consists of Jumping Rope, Running or Cycling (or using cardio machines in the Gym) miles and times vary - if it's the Rope or the Gym, it can be from 20-60 minutes, the running and cycling is based on my goals at the time. I try to run at least 2 miles whenever I run though, sometimes I do as many as 8.

Other than that, I do a lot of Polymetric Exercises, Calisthenics and Martial Arts workouts, I feel more flexible and in better shape than I was when I mostly lifted - and I'm straight up stronger now than when I lifted on the regular.

It's getting late, so I'll post more actual workouts later - but here is favorite push-up workout.

I usually do this workout while watching TV, I keep a bottle of water closeby, and a note pad to keep track of how many I've done.

It's a small pad, on which I can write about 20-23 two digit numbers going accross one line.

I start my watch and knock out between 40-60 push-ups, write it down and then rest for about 30-90 seconds, than do another set, I keep doing this until I've filled an entire line. Once I do that, I stop the watch.

My goal is to do 1,000+ Push-ups in 30 minutes or less; when I first started doing this, I barely finished 500 and I think it took me 35 minutes and this when I lifted all the time.

I call that a round - if I do more than one round, I rest for 10-15 minutes, drink plenty of fluids and start again.

I'll do anywhere from 1-4 rounds, every other day.

Additionally, I throw in Dips, Pull-ups and Tricep pushups to work on my upper body and all sorts of other exercises to work on my lower body, general fitness, etc.

I basically stoped lifting after watching Documentaries on the Army Rangers, Navy Seals and Green Berets one weekend and realizing that these guys are some of the fittest people on earth, whether you want to run 12 miles, do a triathlon or just compete in Martial Arts and they rarely use machines or lift, particularly not when they're in the hardest parts of their training.

I'll throw in more stuff tommorrow, culled from my workout journals.


Peace,







M2










The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 12:57 PM

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20. "cardio before weights is wrong"
In response to Reply # 9


          

your body doesnt work best that way. here's why:

if you do cardio first, it takes your body roughly 20-30 minutes just to burn up the sugar in your blood stream, thus you arent burning any fat for the first 20-30 minutes of cardio(unless you do it first thing in the morning on an empty stomach in which case you would neevr lift weights in that session) so you ve basically wasted 20-30 minutes just to get to the point of burning fat. also, your muscles need that blood sugar to contract properly and efficiently, which they now can no longer do since that sugar is gone.

now if you do weights first, your muscles actually have the sugar to function properly, and after doing 30-45 minutes or so of weights, your blood sguar levels will be low enough that once you start doing cardio, you will virtually be burning fat from the getgo, thus getting leaner much faster and at the same time strengthening your muscle structure

www.a-resilient-body.com

  

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M2
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Sat Sep-20-03 01:49 PM

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22. "I disagree"
In response to Reply # 20


          


I lift from the perspective of a Track Athlete - I always run, do cardio, speed workouts, work on anerobic conditioning BEFORE I lift, as the first activity I'm engaging in is my primary objective as far as athletic performance.

I can do those workouts at a higher intensity if I them first, resulting in a higher level of fitness.

The lifting/strength exercises are meant to supplement my fitness activity, not the other way around.

So when I lift, my body is warmed up, but I'm somewhat tired and I have to work harder to lift.

If you hit the Bench Press right when you get to the Gym, you can hit it at full capacity and mostly worry about just muscle strength in terms of getting through the workout.

While I've already done 30-90 minutes (or more) of intense fitness related exercises, I'm going to need muscle endurance not only to get through each lifting exercise, but to make it through the workout.

If I lift first, the lifting workout is easy in fact, it doesn't really phase me - I knock out Cardio and after that some fatigue kicks in, but in general, the workout is just easier.

When I do Cardio/Anerobic Fitness exercises first, I start to drag towards the end of the lifting phase, turning lifting into a fitness exercise as opposed to just being a strength one.

But here is the benefit:

I've been sparring for a long time, or I'm competing in a 400m Dash, or just engaging in some sort of physical activity or competition, where I've depleted my glycogen stores, or where I can feel that my muscles are lacking in energy, I know I can reach down and explode if/when I have to.

Better yet, I know that despite the fatigue, I can summon a good amount of anerobic muscle performance/have a lot of muscle endurance to call on.

That's what I develop by doing cardio first.

Because I've run 5 miles and than done a hard pushup workout afterwords, or I've done 60 minutes on the elliptical trainer, than 30 minutes on the XC Ski Machine, before reaching a new Max on the Bench Press.

So, I like my way better.

That's the way we did it in track, that's the way I lot of athletes I know it in track and judging by the results, it works.



Peace,







M2


The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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J_Stew
Member since Jul 06th 2002
22363 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 02:06 PM

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24. "i see where you are coming from"
In response to Reply # 22


          

alot of track athletes especially sprinters do run before they lift. but sprinting is a similar class of exercise to lifting weights, both utilizing fast twitch muscle fibers primarily. i wasnt aware of the nature of your program, i assumed you meant distance running or riding an exercise bike or using an elliptical, etc. and im really talking about which is the better way physiologically moreso than training for a sport. generally if one is going to perform an activity involving endurance fibers(slow twitch) its best to train the fast twitch fibers first

i can understand your approach as far as making you mentally tougher, etc. i was around the university of texas when donovan bailey was training for the olympics(when he won the gold medal) and since hes a sprinter of course he would do a sprint workout before lifting, BUT he would primarily sprint early in the day, taking at least a 4 hour break before coming back to lift

anyway you seem quite happy with your approach and that in and of itself is half the battle when it comes to maintaining a good program

www.a-resilient-body.com

  

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M2
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Sat Sep-20-03 05:47 PM

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25. "RE: i see where you are coming from"
In response to Reply # 24


          

>alot of track athletes especially sprinters do run before
>they lift. but sprinting is a similar class of exercise to
>lifting weights, both utilizing fast twitch muscle fibers
>primarily. i wasnt aware of the nature of your program, i
>assumed you meant distance running or riding an exercise
>bike or using an elliptical, etc. and im really talking
>about which is the better way physiologically moreso than
>training for a sport. generally if one is going to perform
>an activity involving endurance fibers(slow twitch) its best
>to train the fast twitch fibers first

Well, now that a freak food condition I had in college appears to have healed, I'm toying with either just straight up trying to compete again, or pursuing my interests as far as trying a Triathlon or becoming an adventure racer (I definitely want to do the Eco-Challenge) - either way, I'll just keep the same approach, it worked for a lot of distance runners I know.

Then again - for Distance people, the approach isn't that much different, they usually lifted when they did their speed workouts and/or they're developing their speed moreso for a strong finishing kick than anything else, so a hard distance workout, followed by weight lifting, is basically training their bodies to kick.

Basically, you have basic rules for how you should do things, but you often have to modify them with respect to what type of sport you're competing in/what you want to accomplish.


>i can understand your approach as far as making you mentally
>tougher, etc. i was around the university of texas when
>donovan bailey was training for the olympics(when he won the
>gold medal) and since hes a sprinter of course he would do a
>sprint workout before lifting, BUT he would primarily sprint
>early in the day, taking at least a 4 hour break before
>coming back to lift

Different people are wired different in terms of what makes them fast - I always lifted right after I ran, because it seemed that working on strength and muscle endurance at the same time, gave me the best results.

Other people I ran with, used to go eat dinner after practice, do some homework and then lift.

That approach didn't work so well for me.

Some guys could focus on developing Brute Strength/explosiveness in the gym and get faster, whereas for me, it seemed I had to focus mix muscle endurance with speed work.


>anyway you seem quite happy with your approach and that in
>and of itself is half the battle when it comes to
>maintaining a good program

The other half is just experimentation, I always wondered how my athletic career might've turned out if I had better luck in terms of injuries and knew what I know now, when I was 14.

I've mixed so many different things from so many different coaches and experimented for years to get the right balance that works best for me.


Peace,







M2




The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Fri Sep-19-03 05:43 AM

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12. "aren't there enough books about this?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

magazines? pamphlets? etc. already?

i find it interesting (not necessarily YOU) that people in this country have so much info about health/nutrition and such in their heads but never USE it or APPLY it. and let's not even get into the discussion that very little of this is even NEEDED. just learn your body. a 25 year old human being should by THEN at LEAST have a near mastery over the fundamentals of how his/her body work. obese people perplex me in this regard. what have they been DOING the past 2 decades?

learn yourself is my best advise. trial and error until you get it right...what's the worst that can happen? *shrugs* like Nike says: "JUST DO IT!"

sadly, that's where reading and thinking about a program ends in it's effectiveness...the DOING part.

Red, Black, Green

  

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chin
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1366 posts
Fri Sep-19-03 08:08 AM

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14. "i started a month ago doing this routine:"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Sep-19-03 08:09 AM

  

          

20-40 min cardio (eliptical/treadmill/stair <-- either or)
followed by about 1.5hours of weight lifting. i have four routines:
chest and tricepts
back and bicepts
legs
abs/lower torso & shoulders

gained 4lbs and my friends said i look bigger. i was a little on the slim side (not that im the hulk now but...)

plus i wanna work in some pilates/yoga like what one of the other posters mentioned (yo, that pilates stuff aint easy!)

edit: done 4-5 days a week

*****************************
Giving You True Lurker Hits Since 1999

gamertag: chinwhat

  

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OkayContributor
Member since Sep 14th 2002
330 posts
Fri Sep-19-03 09:07 AM

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15. "RE: i started a month ago doing this routine:"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

When I was in what I considered my topic physical shape I ran two miles a day either in the morning or at night, I did a 40 to 60 minute circuit routine at the gym starting with the stationary bike and ending with crunches and machines that focus on the stomach area. As for the diet I didnt pay any attention to the bad things I ate because I was drinking a gallon of water a day which seemed to clense everything.

For the cats who want to jog this is old advice but it works start with walking or jogging/walking short distances and gradually increase the workout until you reach your distance goal for jogging. I started with 1 mile in the morning and kept at it, eventually I found myself jogging 5 miles a day.

Start small with everything and increase gradually. Thats the best tip I can think of for finding your own routine.


"It is a rare privilege to be born as a human being, as we happen to be. If we do not achieve enlightenment in this life, when do we expect to achieve it?"
Echu, Zen poet

  

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Onederlust
Member since Aug 29th 2003
352 posts
Fri Sep-19-03 12:54 PM

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17. "RE: How do I get into best physical shape possible?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

start on the inside...

  

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brownsugs
Member since Jan 21st 2003
1014 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 05:51 PM

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26. "if you're looking to sculpt"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

it's all about looking at your frame and how your muscles are shaped and work together.

if you are trying to build muscle, not necessarily get huge but
replenish what you're working out with growth then you definitely
need 1g of protein for everypound that you way each day. myoplex
is a great meal supplement shake and the strawberry doesn't taste bad at all.

if you're looking to get that six-pack to show then you need to cut down the carbs mostly in the saturated fat area which you can do
very easily if you get rid of most of the junk and fast food. the only way that
abs will show will be if you get rid of the layers of fat on top of
them.

as far as building muscle. i usually go into the Gym and lift hard
for like an hour concentrating on what it is that i want to improve.
if you do three sets of a variety of movements that should be enough, but you have
make sure that you do at least 3-4 movements for each muscle group
more for the larger ones.

if you do the first set at a weight that you can put up 8 times
the second set at a weight you can put up 6 times and drop the weight on the third set so that you can get it up 10-12 times and really put extra emphasis on the form to make sure your burning out the muscle's you're trying to focus on, then that should sculpt your body and fill out your muscles by tightening what you have. it's important and also good cardio wise to only take about 30 seconds between sets and aobut a minute between movements or exercises.

after you workout though you should drink some kind of protein shake or drink with whey isolate in it
these drink are already broken down for you so they get absorbed immediately when they enter your system and go where they are needed. it's important to do this within 30 minutes of finishing your workout because that's
obviously when your muscles are in need and looking for anything they can grab to replenish them.
if you don't put the right stuff in then they're going to have to
grab some second rate stuff that the body synthesizes like a substitute for the first choice in its absence.

you can do cardio as much as you want with this and in fact if you run for
10 minutes or more at a good pace before your workout you will
start burning those carbs and if you get into your workout that will carryover.

like any other exercise, don't be too caught up with regiments. as long as you're doing it
faithfully and you want to do it you'll get there, just be true to
what you're trying to do and follow the advice like guidelines.
once you get into it you'll know how your body works.

the key with lifting or running though is form and that's making sure you're working what you are trying to work.




  

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bluetiger
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36723 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 07:35 PM

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27. "40 days to feeling better:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You may want to print this out (or parts of it). The hardest part for me was changing the way I ate. I used to eat everything in HUGE amounts. Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, pizza, and beer are not my regular friends anymore. Red Wine is OK. I would also suggest investing in a cheap whey protein powder such as EAS Simply Whey or Myoplex's stuff. They also have small ready-to-drink stuff that works too, when you can't always take a break to eat. You can do these things for 2-3 meals if you want. Try not to eat 3 hours before bedtime. Cardio also works best in the morning (I always did it after work though at night).

If you eat something "bad" occasionally, recognize it, and try not to fall back into eating that way. If you miss a workout day, make sure you go the next chance you get. Stay focused. It's only 40 days.

Some of it is a repost of my reply:
Do NOT do lots of cardio.
Do NOT do 1000s of crunches.
Do NOT arbitrarily cut out your carbs (as this can lead to chronic ketosis). The real way (if you want the whole program, inbox) took me 40 days exactly. I went from 17% body fat down to 7%. I have kept it off too. I dropped from 215 lbs to 185 lbs.

The meal-deal: Eat 5 times a day (small meals). Drink water. Eat protein-based meals with portions equivalent to the size of your fist. Carbs you can cut out: white potatoes, pastas, breads. Carbs to include: sweet potatoes, vegetables. Cut out fried foods. The protein should be lean red meat, lean turkey or chicken, or best of all, fish such as tuna or salmon. Cut out sweets and bad fats. Olive oil and conjugated lineolaic acids are good to eat.

The exercise-deal: Consistent weight training at a gym. Lift weights in a manner that focuses on not over-training at least 3 times a week (I go 4-5). Muscle burns fat better than anything. Workouts should last no longer than 45 minutes. Anymore, & its overkill.

The cardio-deal: High intensity interval training 3 times a week. I run for half a mile, then do 8 sets of 20-30 second sprints, then run another half mile. It should take just under 15 minutes.


The mental-deal: Set a goal & stay disciplined. This is a lifestyle change, not a diet.


The details for a regular 7 day week:
My workout should be modified to your strength level (don't use too much weight & hurt yourself).

Day One
Squats 4 sets 5-8 reps
Dumbbell Lunges 4 sets 20 steps
Hamstring Curls 3 sets 10-8-6 reps
Standing Calf Raises 3 sets 12-15 reps

Day Two
Dumbbell Chest Press 4 sets 15-12-10-8 reps
Incline Dumbbell Press 3 sets 12-10-8 reps
Dumbbell Flyes 3 sets 15-12-10 reps
Seated Dumbbell Curls 5 sets 5 reps/arm
Swiss Ball Crunches 3 sets 30 reps

Day Three
Run/jog 0.5 mile
Sprints 8 sets 20 seconds/set
Run/jog 0.5 mile

Day Four
Deadlifts 3 sets 10-8-6 reps
Pullups 4 sets 15 reps
One Armed Dumbbell Rows 5 sets 5 reps/arm
Narrow Grip Underhand Lat Pulldowns 3 sets 12-10-8 reps
One Armed Cable Rows 3 sets 12-10-8 reps
Incline Oblique Crunches 3 sets 30 reps

Day Five
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 4 sets 12-10-8-8 reps
Lateral Dumbbell Raises 3 sets 12-10-8 reps
Front Dumbbell Raises 3 sets 12-10-8 reps
Dips 4 sets 10 reps
Cable Triceps Pushdowns 3 sets 12-10-8 reps


Day Six
Run/jog 0.5 mile
Sprints 8 sets 20 seconds/set
Run/jog 0.5 mile

Day Seven
Rest

Notes: Add this ab exercise during one of the cardio days: Decline Leg Raises 3 sets 15 reps Add at least another cardio routine to one of the weight training days.

Once this gets to be your routine, you'll be in great shape. Also alternate types of exercises every few months.

and now:

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
- ρδω

♀¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤♀


don't be fkn evil.

  

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Toothpick
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Wed Sep-24-03 06:57 AM

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31. "I fully endorse this"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

sounds a lot like my program.

I especially like the "this is *not* a diet" quote. Fitness is a lifestyle, not a goal to be attained and then thrown away. I hate people who only "get in shape" for a vacation trip (showin off on the beach) or to fit into a dress for wedding...as if being healty were the same as buying new shoes.

Whatever you do, it should be gradual (eff this "lose weight in 10 days! crap), and it should be sustained.

peace,
-Tp

----------------------------------------------

http://fivedeadlyeverythings.wordpress.com
bamf.

  

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bluetiger
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36723 posts
Wed Sep-24-03 10:47 AM

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34. "exactly!"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

The worst is when someone says "I tried exercise" like it is a quick fix. Result don't happen overnight. It takes daily effort & little by little you can undo the damage you have done to your body.

There is no magical "get in shape/fat loss" pill. Science cannot cure laziness evidently.

and now:

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
- ρδω

♀¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤♀


don't be fkn evil.

  

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Evol
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Tue Sep-23-03 05:12 PM

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30. "up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


***

flow infinitely

  

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Humzaki
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505 posts
Wed Sep-24-03 10:36 AM

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33. "Round is a "shape""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just eat

Peace
H

  

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