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Subject: "Solve this riddle, and change your perspective on life." This topic is locked.
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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 06:58 AM

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"Solve this riddle, and change your perspective on life."


  

          

Maybe, we should stop trying to prove that we are in __________.

And realize, that we are in _________ .

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Hell, Heaven
Nov 06th 2003
1
RE: Hell, Heaven
Nov 06th 2003
2
listen... I'm all about perspective/paradigm change, BU
Nov 06th 2003
3
RE: listen... I'm all about perspective/paradigm change
Nov 06th 2003
4
      dude. you're just supposed to AGREE
Nov 06th 2003
5
      Big time "us and Them" complex
Nov 06th 2003
7
      RE: dude. you're just supposed to AGREE
Nov 06th 2003
10
      basically. if someone wants to belive that
Nov 06th 2003
11
           Or maybe they're really sad in their place
Nov 06th 2003
24
                nonacceptance
Nov 06th 2003
25
                     RE: nonacceptance
Nov 06th 2003
27
                          huh?
Nov 06th 2003
28
                               RE: huh?
Nov 06th 2003
31
                                    like most things...
Nov 06th 2003
33
                                         RE: like most things...
Nov 06th 2003
34
      please explain
Nov 06th 2003
12
           absolutist thinking persons
Nov 06th 2003
13
           RE: absolutist thinking persons
Nov 06th 2003
35
                valid.
Nov 06th 2003
36
           RE: please explain
Nov 06th 2003
15
      do you have a minute Tek?
Nov 06th 2003
8
I just would like to say
Nov 06th 2003
6
RE: I just would like to say
Nov 06th 2003
9
      I really hope you don't have to learn the hard way
Nov 06th 2003
14
      RE: I really hope you don't have to learn the hard way
Nov 06th 2003
20
           Someone is looking out ahead of the fog for you
Nov 06th 2003
21
                RE: Someone is looking out ahead of the fog for you
Nov 06th 2003
23
                     God, Tek.
Nov 07th 2003
39
      Is it not possible....
Nov 06th 2003
19
           RE: Is it not possible....
Nov 06th 2003
22
           I like your point about Maths.
Nov 07th 2003
40
                RE: I like your point about Maths.
Nov 07th 2003
41
           RE: Is it not possible....
Nov 08th 2003
45
                RE: Is it not possible....
Nov 09th 2003
46
pain, agony
Nov 06th 2003
16
lol
Nov 06th 2003
17
how 'bout
Nov 06th 2003
18
      on the floor
Nov 06th 2003
26
      RE: how 'bout
Nov 06th 2003
32
      ROFLMAO
Nov 08th 2003
42
peace, war
Nov 06th 2003
29
RE: peace, war
Nov 06th 2003
30
Postmodernity, Class Struggle
Nov 07th 2003
37
RE: Postmodernity, Class Struggle
Nov 07th 2003
38
RE: this post and overall
Nov 08th 2003
44
The University of Penn., Community College
Nov 08th 2003
43
lmao
Nov 09th 2003
48
a country; a universe
Nov 09th 2003
47

mansface
Member since May 08th 2003
270 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 07:01 AM

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1. "Hell, Heaven"
In response to Reply # 0


          

?

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 07:03 AM

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2. "RE: Hell, Heaven"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

heh heh.
respect my friend. respect.

lets discuss.

does it make sense to you? does it offer you the possibility for happiness & love rather than depression & hate? does your perspective in fact change when you realize it. not just think it, or see the logic in it..but REALIZE it?

also, is the opposite equally true? and equally a possible source of happiness and love? over depression and hate?

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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inVerse
Member since Jan 14th 2003
1356 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 08:33 AM

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3. "listen... I'm all about perspective/paradigm change, BU"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Tek,

It's important to realize that changing our perspective will not make a fallen world into heaven.

Heaven is the end of selfish evil, and complete community with God the father.

This world HURTS because man has insisted on "going it alone",
Insisting that he knows what is best for himself rather than listen to his creator.

Every single ounce of pain and suffering you see ANYWHERE, traces directly back to that.

Those who have accepted God's free gift through Jesus to transcend this pain and sin through forgiveness and redemption will know Heaven... those who ignore their own father and maker, and insist that they can make their own way, will NOT. Hell.

That is the bottom line.

So I'd encourage you to be careful, and make distinctions between saying things like "hey, let's have a good attitude"
and saying things like "hey, heaven and hell are just what you make of them". Those are two very different statements.

There is so much misinformation out there. There is so much misrepresention.

I learned myself, only recently, on these boards, how many people think that Catholicism is Biblical Christianity. There is SOOO much misinformation.

Find the truth.

God is real. Jesus is real. Heaven and Hell are realities based on the choice to ignore our creator, or to join him like we were designed to.

peace Tek.



--------- Sig----------

“Of all the dispositions and teachings of thinkers and ethicists, the one doctrine that I have no sufficient counter for is Jesus on that Cross.”

-Mhatma Gandhi

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 11:17 AM

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4. "RE: listen... I'm all about perspective/paradigm change"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>It's important to realize that changing our perspective will
>not make a fallen world into heaven.

According to your perspective. I have lived otherwise. IN my universe, heaven is a reality when I choose it. Hell is a reality, when I choose it. I choose 1 or the other, according to what I feel my character and spirit needs. Sometimes, I know I have to choose evil, over good, and the other way around. I have learned a great deal from my own choices, and therefore, my actions. Your universe, which fortifies the idea of a "fallen world" tells me, that you believe that we in fact, do live in hell. I agree, and I disagree. Because, it is possible to see and feel both at the same time and therein you start playing with concepts like Orwell's "double think". To love and unlove. To believe and unbelieve. This is what I attempt to practice and, it always, has led me to where I needed to be. Not because, I realized this after I got there, but because I planned it out before hand and made the choice to be there. I am in control over my universe. I thoroughly believe, everything that I desire and want to happen, will happen, as it has always happened, and will always happen. I am in control with the simple idea of choice. Choose 1 or the other. That is some of the philosophy associated with the way I look at perspective.


>Heaven is the end of selfish evil, and complete community
>with God the father.

According to your perspective. Do you see, how perspective, is always present even when you try to seperate yourself from it. You cannot, seperate your filter from your perception or your interpretation of what God is. You believe, that heaven, is the end of hell, and complete "community" with god. By the way, that was a brilliant word..."community"...i agree. Most people think of it as unification. I disagree with that, and we disagree on this point and disagree on it.

double think.

I disagree with your interpretation of "selfish evil" but I agree with your interpretation of "community" because I believe, if god exists, he is here, and has always been here. Not always as in, before us. But, right when we became aware, or when we created the idea of god. There is no difference between creating something and believing it, or finding out about it and believing it. SAME THING according to me. It's a perception split. A double think.


>This world HURTS because man has insisted on "going it
>alone", Insisting that he knows what is best for himself rather than listen to his creator.

Are you not, at this moment, telling me, that you know what is better for me than I know waht is better for me?

We cannot seperate ourselves from our ego. We cannot seperate ourselves from our own flame. Passions, that is what ails us. We believe, and we believe like no other creature, because we are willing to kill for belief. That is why, I love to talk with people like you. You believe, and that is a noble gift, but it also a poison. We do not have the capacity to listen to our creator. If we did, we would understand physics, which in my opinion, is a dead end rode only built as a tool to excersize the mind. To excersize the mind to give the human meaning in life. These are tools. Not means to an end. That is the illusion of science imo. A scientist and a spiritual master, can both reach the same end without being aware of eachother.

What has the creator told you?
Or rather, what have you interpreted with your PERCEPTION to believe what the creator said. It is possible to create mircales by believing in them. At one point in my life, I believed in prophets, and I met many prophets. At another point, I believed in Jesus, and I met Jesus, in the flesh. Anything, taht I want, will occur, as I want it to. That is the power of choice and belief. No weapon is strong enough to challenge the power of the SELF minded individual, taht is beyond and within himself, at the same time.

>Every single ounce of pain and suffering you see ANYWHERE,
>traces directly back to that.

I disagree. Because, a lot of pain, that I have experienced, can be traced to myself. My actions, and my choices created the pain that I felt. I have lived through so much hell in my life man, fa'real, I have been through shit that always left me on the brink of selling my soul to the devil. And you know what?

I did it.

In my heart of hearts, I told myself, that the devil can have my soul if..he does something in return for me. (I was in a christian state of mind, not consciously, but sub - conscoiusly considering I do live in a christian home with christians, and in a christian environment, with christians.)

Following that experience, I felt empty and like a shell. Even more pain, and more agony surfaced, and even more troubles began to materialize. But, the reason I sold my soul, or promised myself, or made myself believe that I did it, was for love of another human being. I would find myself very depressed not being able to feel what I did when I was younger, when I met..."Jesus"..when I discussed the future with "prophets". I felt the pulse of it at those times, the warmth, and the captivating feeling of love it offered. And I chose to give it up. Even if it is all symbolism, this is what I have believed, so It must be true for me. It is "MY" Perception of the universe. How can you dispute that? How can anyone tell me.

"No tek, this is what oyu did, becaus of this and that"...

They are right. But only for themselves, not for me.

>Those who have accepted God's free gift through Jesus to
>transcend this pain and sin through forgiveness and
>redemption will know Heaven... those who ignore their own
>father and maker, and insist that they can make their own
>way, will NOT. Hell.

True. And not true. I gave up my soul. I really believe that. I got it back. How? Well, at the point in my life, where I knew I was living in constant hell, because, how could I not. the events that were taking place, the sheer evil in them, the disgust and hate in them made me shake. But, somehow, in a non caring and loving way, I was able to walk through it. It was my "moment of senseless darness". I think Aldous Huxley made a reference to this when he was discussing the practice and methods of mystics. (Ends and Means). Anyways, my mind turned into mud, it turned into a factory of hate, rape, murder, lust, murder, hate, rape, revenge, redemption, hate, anger, terrible anger, fear, more fear, and more fear, and MORE FEAR. I was a wreck. And I decided to..."help the devil". I tried to figure out, why I was thinking such horrible things about people I loved and what it was making me do it. That is the choice that I made, that lifted me form taht hell. Rather, than fighting "the devil". I tried to understand him. And you know what? In my opinion, the devil is a kid, taht has been raped, murdered, hated, and beaten upon by hands who thought taht he was evil.
Who does that remind you of?

JESUS. Was he, and is he not in my universe, the exact same thing?? Jesus, is the deivl, and the devil is jesus. They are both reflections on opposite poles of reality. As I was to myself, and as myself I am to what I was. Double think.


>That is the bottom line.
>
>So I'd encourage you to be careful, and make distinctions
>between saying things like "hey, let's have a good attitude"
>and saying things like "hey, heaven and hell are just what
>you make of them". Those are two very different statements.

Tell me why they are different. You konw, if I did not choose to be positive, I would not have regained my soul. I think a poet once wrote..."you can only earn a soul, you are not born with it". i disagree. I believe, you have to give your soul up, and try to find it again. That is ultimate love. That is evil destorying love. That is a love, that is more powerful, than what you feel when you got butterflies in your stomach the first time your girl kisses you. tha tis love, that is more powerful than the first time she put her hand on the back of my neck. Shit. I am crazy in love, and only because I chose love, over anything else. I do not suffer anymore. I get frustrated with shit, but who doesn't. But as far as suffering, it does not occur because I understand the reason for suffering. I understand why the devil does what he does and I tried to give him a pat on the back and say..."listen man, its all love". That is my perception on reality. And it has helped tremendously in my healing process.

>
>There is so much misinformation out there. There is so
>much misrepresention.

Yes. Like I am to you, and you are to me. We are both on the same tree but spring from a different root. Double think. Anyway you look at it. You are my brother, as the devil is a brother to christ and vice versa. That is the power of perception. Knowing, that everyone is right. Everyone has truth. All we speak IS the truth. Even when we lie (c) Scarface. Isn't that a comforting thought? Oh, but how nice it feels.

>I learned myself, only recently, on these boards, how many
>people think that Catholicism is Biblical Christianity.
>There is SOOO much misinformation.

I have more respect for you than people who claim that christians are full of shit. You kno why? Because you believe in something that is beautiful...simply god, through the teachings of christ. I mean, how fucking poetically romantic is that shit. You will have a lot of happiness in your life through these methods, or maybe not. Its your choice. But the point is, you made the leap of faith, which I have called a leap of ignorance when I was a non believer in God. The disease that was produced was this. A lot of atheists pride themselves in the fact that they know god does not exist. They can prove it to. But their attitudes are very hostile. They tell ppl they are stupid. They tell ppl they don't know shit or try to convince them of certain undebatable truths. Just as I have done. But was I right in doing so? NO. Because it pushed me further into my ego, into my power of a god. I started to believe that, and I am willing to admit it. Self-worship is not uncommon. It is a beneficial experience because it allows you to realize a lot of "undebatable truths". So you see, I was fooling myself, and righting myself in the same sentence. Double think. That is why I sometimes choose "hell" over "heaven".

Only to learn so that I can help those near me if they ever need it. That is the only reason I ever give a shit about facing the devil, or feelign pain, or sacrificing my body and mind, to shit that most people would call insane. I am just really really fucking curious. And it has hurt, beyond words, I mean, the pain of it, has beat me down to my knees, on the brink of suicide, with addictions and addictions piled up on me, devastated love, devastated family members, the list is fuckign long. But it was roth every damn minute. And would I go back? if i had to, but i don't feel i do. I think i am finding a good balance between that world, and this one. Between your world, and mine. Just accpetance.

I accept your jesus as my saviour only because you believe it. and you said "peace tek" at the end of your message. I know and believe that you are a good person. I can feel it about you, because that is the vibe you give. You try to help just like anyone else, and that is what i love and respect. So, are really any different at all? No, we are exactly the same, speaking the exact same truth. In 2 different languages. That is all. The rest is just a detail, and the fun of debate. To larn about what others think. To let them be, never try to convince them, let them convince themselves of choices that they will inevitably make to lead them where they invetably must go. All with choice. Life is not planned out for us. WE plan our lives and destiny. It is possible, with choice.

>Find the truth.

You already found it. So have I, so has everyone. Why don't we just try to enjoy it. Looking for truth, is like trying to prove that we are in hell, when in fact, we are already in heaven. IN a community of truth speakers. Different language, to the same truth. I have even come to understand the mind of a murdered, a rapist, a burglar, a pedophile, a politician, a priest that wants sex, a man who wnts to sleep with lolita's. It all has a just reason, and it is all rooted in something solid and with substance. It is all truth, i have always wondered why ppl do those things, and now I think I can understand it. I mean, as an example of a pedophile. Is it possible taht that person is so in love with innocence or reconnecting with their youth? (only the surface). But is that possible? I would think so. There was a good russian writer that wrote "lolita", I have not ready it, but apprently he made you think it was okay to love a 12 year old girl. Im sure he had a reason why. He has his truth too.

We just perceive shit differently. And what is worse is that we try to convince others of this truth.

>God is real. Jesus is real. Heaven and Hell are realities
>based on the choice to ignore our creator, or to join him
>like we were designed to.

Oh hell yah.

>peace Tek.

peace fam.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 11:41 AM

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5. "dude. you're just supposed to AGREE"
In response to Reply # 4
Thu Nov-06-03 11:45 AM

  

          

with the limitations the Absolutists state... just say "yeah i agree. and they'll leave you alone"

how do you go about showing somebody something they KNOW doesn't exist and push outta the realm of possibility?

answer: you don't

Red, Black, Green

  

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joseph
Member since Feb 20th 2003
268 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 11:55 AM

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7. "Big time "us and Them" complex"
In response to Reply # 5


          

or is that "Us and them"

just joking dude
calm down

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:14 PM

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10. "RE: dude. you're just supposed to AGREE"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

hmm, if you can maybe elaborate. i know you have a complex mind fam. go in depth, tell me about that some more. i don't want to make a statement without understanding you further.

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:15 PM

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11. "basically. if someone wants to belive that"
In response to Reply # 10
Thu Nov-06-03 12:16 PM

  

          

there can not POSSIBLY be heaven on earth...there's no pointin explaining your perspective. they're closed to the possibility. and are happy in their place.

Red, Black, Green

  

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joseph
Member since Feb 20th 2003
268 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:56 PM

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24. "Or maybe they're really sad in their place"
In response to Reply # 11


          

and happy at the same time.

By the way
How can you push something "out of the realm of possibility"
If it does not exist for you to push it.

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 01:03 PM

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25. "nonacceptance"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

nonacceptance of a scenario or perspective that is foreign to self is the same as pushing it away. when people think upon ideas that ARE at their center, the contrary either comes to mind through simple pondering, or it's brought to them from outside. either way...adopting CERTAIN ideologies that by definition don't allow for its inverse gives the believer license to put certain things "out of the realm of possibility" without thinking about them at all. not a bad thing to do if you're believing in a say "monotheistic tradition", because for these ideologies, it reinforces the ONE WAY thinking if you don't even have to THINK of integrating something "else" into your thinking. (interestingly enough, looking at the permutations of christianity as it makes it's way through indigenous areas and changes to ADOPT and ADAPT to those peoples' traditional beliefs kinda shows that either the people or the ideology itself isn't as rigid as it claims. but that's a whole other can of worms.)

Red, Black, Green

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 01:18 PM

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27. "RE: nonacceptance"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

i would like to hear your opinions more often. YOUR opinions, not the articles you post

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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Utamaroho
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Thu Nov-06-03 01:23 PM

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28. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

this IS my opinion.

Red, Black, Green

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 01:31 PM

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31. "RE: huh?"
In response to Reply # 28
Thu Nov-06-03 01:32 PM

  

          

i know. and its the first post i was able to get your opinion out of you! heehee!! i love you dawg! lol i guess what i mean is..i wanna hear about what uta thinks about..what uta has to offer...ya dig? in thise kind of sense as you did today.

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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Utamaroho
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Thu Nov-06-03 03:06 PM

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33. "like most things..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

i am nothing.

as is my opinion.

Red, Black, Green

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 03:07 PM

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34. "RE: like most things..."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

nothing is the foundation of all existince is it not?

interesting claim there uta

let's play ping pong ■

  

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inVerse
Member since Jan 14th 2003
1356 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:17 PM

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12. "please explain"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          


>with the limitations the Absolutists state... just say "yeah
>i agree. and they'll leave you alone"

please explain the "Absolutists limitations".

then, please explain the alternative, and it's lack of limitation...

unless of course by that second part, you are just implying Bartek's "I am everything I am nothing the world is me the world is not me I am the devil but God too and Yin and Yang and hot and cold and everything I want is what I want because I want nothing and everything" nonsense. And I mean nonsense in the most literal way possible.

Tell me another way to address the thought process of someone who claims to have created THEMSELVES.

I look forward to discussion with both of you.

By the way...

I'm an Orwell fan too. I've read every work and essay. But he was a tortured man that led a VERY unhappy life. You can have insight into sociology and still be wrong about a lot of shit.

peace.

--------- Sig----------

“Of all the dispositions and teachings of thinkers and ethicists, the one doctrine that I have no sufficient counter for is Jesus on that Cross.”

-Mhatma Gandhi

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:20 PM

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13. "absolutist thinking persons"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

have ONE way of seeing reality. hence the name. there is no flexibility if there is simply ONE way to see reality.

brb.

Red, Black, Green

  

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LK1
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
1113 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 03:26 PM

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35. "RE: absolutist thinking persons"
In response to Reply # 13


          

>have ONE way of seeing reality. hence the name. there is no
>flexibility if there is simply ONE way to see reality.

umm.. unless an absolutist, such as myself, believes in many realities and that the reality we physically see is a mere illusion.. dig? peace,

***I'm a Child of Production***

  

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Utamaroho
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Thu Nov-06-03 03:27 PM

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36. "valid."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

.

Red, Black, Green

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:23 PM

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15. "RE: please explain"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

maybe orwell thrived on unhappines. i am writer too, and i found depression to be a great source of inspiration. also:

"I am everything I am nothing the world is me the world is not me I am the devil but God too and Yin and Yang and hot and cold and everything I want is what I want because I want nothing and everything"

that is not what i really meant. sigh

peace fam.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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inVerse
Member since Jan 14th 2003
1356 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:11 PM

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8. "do you have a minute Tek?"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          



if you do...
well you read the two parts of the post called
"The differences between religions" that is still floating somewhere around the 1st or 2nd page here somewhere.

I'd really, really like to hear what you think about the reasoning presented.

peace.

--------- Sig----------

“Of all the dispositions and teachings of thinkers and ethicists, the one doctrine that I have no sufficient counter for is Jesus on that Cross.”

-Mhatma Gandhi

  

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joseph
Member since Feb 20th 2003
268 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 11:53 AM

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6. "I just would like to say"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Thank you Bartek.
Man, I always get something out of reading your post. I always disagree with you and agree with you. Your double think is pretty contagious. It reminds me of a class I took in college about the mask and it's use in different cultures. There was one mask with 2 sides, and I can't remember exactly but it had something to do with duality in reality.

I think Inverse is correct about "misinformation", but maybe lies are just a tool that can uncover the truth. It's like my mama said, "the truth always gets out". Or like the bible when it says, "All things work together for good to them that love God" (Rom 8:28).

The only thing I can't get around you saying is that you can control your own universe. I feel that we all share the universe and a lot of choices we make affect other people. I'm just not convinced that you can really control everything that happens to you. Perhaps I'm just taking you too literally?

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:12 PM

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9. "RE: I just would like to say"
In response to Reply # 6
Thu Nov-06-03 12:18 PM

  

          

I can.

Just make choices that lead you to your desires and the universe is yours.

I don't think we share a universe. I think we share a realm that holds an infinite amount of possible universi (lol, i know that ain't a word).

This is how I think it works.

We all have our own unique universe, becuase we all have our own unique perceptive filter. The way you perceive life, is very much not the way I perceive mine. So, there is your universe, and there is mine. And now, they are colliding, SUPERNOVA! ehehehe.

I am going to borrow from Douglas Adams here. Douglas Adams wrote "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy", the entire series should be read by anyone who is interested in this topic. Anyways, he wrote..."we all live in our own universe, with various filters which creates a chaos of misunderstanding, so...give your kids a break"....

I can control my universe, becuase today, I chose to love someone, instead of hating them. So therefore, I am building a life of love. Bad things will happen, and maybe that is what we are trying to escape, but...if you understand the reason and the reasoning behind the illusion of bad...you start to understand it as love and you sort of become...immune to it. how can bad hurt you if you believe that bad is in fact good? it can't. it is all in the power of choice. and that is what i chose.

also..i emcee and i want to grace a stage one day. my love for this dream has become a reality because i do emcee, and i rock a stage in my head everyday..but also..it brought me here where i connected with a lot of individuals in the business. so i am making moves. simply becuase i chose to be an emcee. so, i infact, took control of my universe and said "i will emcee"..and i am getting closer to that stage, always and everyday, and that is my biggest personal passion. how is it, that after making that choice, i am connecting with producers and radio hosts, and other emcees? doens't it sound like i am controlling my universe? i think so. its all about choices. if you chose to notice blue cars, that is all you would see. but you can take it even beyond the surface, and feel what you want to feel. its a great feeling to believe it. i may be mistaken, and maybe i have a great lesson to learn, but as of now..it seems i am in control as i would not change anything else. the other day i decided to go back to school, and already, life has brought the opportunities to do just that. without any effort by me. i just made a choice. i think mos def said something bout "effort less effort". its like will power. just will it.

commercial examples:

"just do it"
"i can"

bla bla bla, how is it that the media controls us so easily? cause they show us a universe we all want, in some shallow way, and they give us the slogans to chase after it, its so easy, but so perfect ins't it? they define our reality through whatever they way.

*edit: the concept of duality is what inspired a lot of this thought. i chose to write poetry about it, and boom. here we go, on for another ride. just choose your journey and the road will be put before your feet. its that simple.

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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joseph
Member since Feb 20th 2003
268 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:21 PM

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14. "I really hope you don't have to learn the hard way"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Cause it would really suck if someone you don't even know makes a choice to not pay attention when they are driving . . . I think you know where I'm going.

But maybe that would be a good thing in your universe. I just don't see good and evil as the same, but I guess I'm choosing that

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:39 PM

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20. "RE: I really hope you don't have to learn the hard way"
In response to Reply # 14
Thu Nov-06-03 12:42 PM

  

          

let me think on that a bit more....

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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joseph
Member since Feb 20th 2003
268 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:50 PM

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21. "Someone is looking out ahead of the fog for you"
In response to Reply # 20


          

Just acknowledge Him

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:55 PM

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23. "RE: Someone is looking out ahead of the fog for you"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

who? hehe.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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inVerse
Member since Jan 14th 2003
1356 posts
Fri Nov-07-03 02:44 PM

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39. "God, Tek."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          


God.



and as far as "dualism" goes... if you are talking about "dualism" in the theological sense... that there are two equally powerful powers... one good, one evil... then you should keep thinking about it... then write some rhymes about how it doesn't add up... cause it doesn't.

but considering the fact that you hate me and have no respect for me, me saying that is probably only pushing you further from finding truth about the existence of absolutes... and the existence of good preceding the existence of evil.

so i'll shut up. pay me no mind.


peace anyway.



--------- Sig----------

“Of all the dispositions and teachings of thinkers and ethicists, the one doctrine that I have no sufficient counter for is Jesus on that Cross.”

-Mhatma Gandhi

  

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mansface
Member since May 08th 2003
270 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:31 PM

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19. "Is it not possible...."
In response to Reply # 9


          

that we all live in the same universe, but we all have our own "perception filters". What is the difference between this "model" and that which you described you ask? Well, to me, the concept of living in your own unique universe is somewhat dangerous since it understates the effect that we have on each others lives. Sure we all have our own way of perceiving the universe, but the actions of others can plunge us into a heaven/hell beyond our control.

By the way I am a Physicist (a dead end job I suppose). There is actually much debate within the Physics establishment as to whether Physics is "fundamental" i.e. it describes the universe as it is, or whether it is simply a tool of our perception. I tend to believe the latter. However, since our collective perceptions shape the universe as we see it, I believe that Physics is not a "dead end road", but an important journey.

Thanks for your thoughts BarTek

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:53 PM

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22. "RE: Is it not possible...."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

I think so too. I respect you a great deal, bcuase I tried my hand at physics and although I love the theory, i hate the math. It's just not me. Also, if there is anything as close to a divine language, its math. It exists here without us. A snow flake will hold the pythagorean theorom, whether we are here to discover or stumble upon it or not. It is a very noble journey in my opinion, one I certinaly could not take. But it is interesting to read your reply and find a lot of similar thought. So you see, I do nt try to live in my universe alone. I try to blend into everyone else, through my own approach to life. Which is, to make choices, that help me, accept everyone, and be accepted by everyone. Not in the "cool" or "inner circle" kind of way. But in the way, that you can get along with the "cool" people, and the goths, and not be connected to any of the circles at all. I have a little motto that I try to live by.

The trick is not to be happy, but to have everyone around you react to you in a happy way.

Btw, do you know aything about string theory? the M theory? I am very interested in that.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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mansface
Member since May 08th 2003
270 posts
Fri Nov-07-03 03:28 PM

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40. "I like your point about Maths."
In response to Reply # 22


          

Maths is one of the few things that we can be certain is universal. It was here before we existed and it will be here when we are long gone. The laws of Physics however may in many ways be just tools that help us perceive the universe in a useful way. I've no doubt that some of it is universal, but some of it, particularly particle physics and quantum physics is merely a model that helps us explain things easier - a creation by us that will die with us.

Maths is my gift. I don't find it terribly interesting, but I'm damn good at it, which is why I'm doing Physics rather than just pure Maths.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about string theory other than something about it being a model that has a string oscillating in 13(?) dimensions, which is supposed to explain, well, everything. Suffice to say it isn't quite that simple, but I'm certainly interested in it so I'm sure I'll get around to looking at it one day.

Getting slightly back on topic, I wish I could believe that we could fully control the way we perceive the universe, but having lived through a period of my life when my perception of my life seems to have been in the hands of others, whose actions controlled my happiness or lack of it, I don't think I could. Believing that other people are only experiencing life through a different perspective is of some comfort, but it doesn't stop their actions from occasionally throwing me into my own personal hell/heaven. I would agree that a good deal of the time, my being in heaven/hell is a choice of my own on some sub-conscious level, but my "perception filter" is not all that defines who I am, not everything about me can be affected by a change of perspective. Sometimes this unchanging part of my universe is the bit that causes me pain.

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Fri Nov-07-03 09:27 PM

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41. "RE: I like your point about Maths."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

interesting. correct me if im wrong. is it the constant return to the hell perspective that ails you? as in, you perceive what is aroudn you as negative, that it affects your understanding of self. i mean, i don't know that it is possible to be controlled by another unless you submit to something. there must be a step foward to that kind of constant "give". it sound slike a lot of energy may appear as if its being "stolen" by others in some kind of fight of game/dominance, or, it could mean that a lot of energy is "given" by you...on a different angle. it would be interseting to see if the M theory would allow you to see another perspective of the same situation. the string theory suggest that there are 5 theories for the solution of everything. as in, the theory to the universe. 5 of them. some mathematician, witten i believe found that each formula is a different angle of the same formula. wow@perception. i think its possible to shift your entire dimension. there are multiple dimensions, and those dimensions, have dimensions. is that true? that is how i understood it by trying to apply physics to thought. maybe you are not challenged enough. if its that easy, shit, it must be fun when its not. or, at least challenging. if you are giving away a lot of energy, try to hold on to it and turn it on what you are doing and see if that stimulates your ability to change your road. do i sound like a complete moron? shit, lol anyways, i must have smoked too much weed again. anyways, ia pologzie if that offends.

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sat Nov-08-03 05:07 PM

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45. "RE: Is it not possible...."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

yeah there is that debate all over philosophy, whether our perception is reality or our perceptions exist independent of it. of course to an individual, perception is real until its disproven, but then what you mention about the interrelation of individuals blows that apart.

as ned flanders would say "thats a real noodle-scratcher"

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Sun Nov-09-03 12:09 AM

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46. "RE: Is it not possible...."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

multiple dimensions, on each dimension.

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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imperial
Member since May 30th 2003
3768 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:23 PM

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16. "pain, agony"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Maybe, we should stop trying to prove that we are in __pain_______.
And realize, that we are in agony_________ .

peace.




Lucid enigma
"Africa is my descent, and here I'm far from home" D angelo

_____________________________________________________
miserable niggas yo
cant let nobody have nothing
"god save the queen pip pip cheerio tea time princess di" ass niggas (c)white desus

  

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joseph
Member since Feb 20th 2003
268 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:26 PM

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17. "lol"
In response to Reply # 16


          

.

  

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joseph
Member since Feb 20th 2003
268 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 12:27 PM

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18. "how 'bout"
In response to Reply # 16


          

Target, Walmart

ha ha ha
why am I the only one laughing

  

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imperial
Member since May 30th 2003
3768 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 01:18 PM

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26. "on the floor"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

past out laffing
Lucid enigma
"Africa is my descent, and here I'm far from home" D angelo

_____________________________________________________
miserable niggas yo
cant let nobody have nothing
"god save the queen pip pip cheerio tea time princess di" ass niggas (c)white desus

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 03:05 PM

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32. "RE: how 'bout"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

lol
u clownin!

but that is the crux. lol

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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Toothpick
Charter member
3084 posts
Sat Nov-08-03 09:59 AM

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42. "ROFLMAO"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

hahahaha. There's a lot of truth in that joke though. The illusion of choice.

peace,
2th

----------------------------------------------

http://fivedeadlyeverythings.wordpress.com
bamf.

  

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LK1
Member since Jun 22nd 2003
1113 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 01:26 PM

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29. "peace, war"
In response to Reply # 0


          

this IS america. PEACE!

***I'm a Child of Production***

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Thu Nov-06-03 01:31 PM

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30. "RE: peace, war"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

that was damn clever mayne. peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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Pinko_Panther
Member since Dec 11th 2002
11808 posts
Fri Nov-07-03 02:49 AM

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37. "Postmodernity, Class Struggle"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Maybe, we should stop trying to prove that we are in
>__________.
>
>And realize, that we are in _________ .
>
>peace.

********************************************
"If you think you're too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed room with a mosquito."

  

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BarTek
Member since Nov 10th 2002
51250 posts
Fri Nov-07-03 05:11 AM

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38. "RE: Postmodernity, Class Struggle"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Another excellent approach. Thanks for your thoughts, maybe if you could go into some detail. I am not well versed and would like to hear your thoughts on why you chose Postmodernity, Class Struggle. What is the benefit of realizing what you have? What is the disadvantage?

peace.

let's play ping pong ■

  

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ConcreteCharlie
Member since Nov 21st 2002
71344 posts
Sat Nov-08-03 05:04 PM

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44. "RE: this post and overall"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

That is great, even though I am not a communist I am sure as shit not thrilled with postmodernism and do strongly believe that the american class struggle has been ignored to the point agony; largely due to racism (see a million other posts I have made to this effect).

Also, while I like the kmart wal mart thing addresses the illusion of choice (which Bush & Co present as a right, grrr so angry); I think the choice to make situations heavenly or agonizing may also be somewhat illusory.

See, the early stages of this post from what I had a minute to read seemed to pit certain components of existentialist versus the primary tenet of Christianity that heaven and hell are real eventualities that can be decided between by accepting Jesus or not (could be wrong here, but its actually a little beside the point). But what that ignores is that while existentialist did believe in constant choice, that in any situation there were multiple options (the classic example that you could move out of the way OR get hit by a train if you chose to), they didnt have this illusion of heaven on earth either.

Existentialists had similar notions that the greatest sin against this life was to long for another, but that doesnt mean that just meant this was as good as it gets as far as we know (a very agnostic POV though many were atheists). But they thought loneliness, forlorness, etc were parts of life. I think the life sucks component of existentialism turns a lotta people off. That and accountability, which is a snag for most people. Some even say that existentialism and humanism are "more Christian than Christianity" because they have similar principles of treatment of fellow men without reward and adhere to humans as the highest possible beings. Meanwhile, Christians and Christian states execute, assassinate and wage war in the name of God. Hmm, who is more amiable, accountable etc???

Anyway, you can give me shit, ask for clarity or expand on that however you want. I really dig this post on the whole, will have to back and read it all before long...

And you will know MY JACKET IS GOLD when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  

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Whateva
Member since Jul 07th 2003
4637 posts
Sat Nov-08-03 12:07 PM

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43. "The University of Penn., Community College"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

n/m

***************************************
"Science" and Religion are the two most dangerous weapons of ideology. See holocaust.

Why do "scientists" constantly produce statistics based on "race", a social construct?

  

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Jaye Swigga
Member since Sep 06th 2003
29904 posts
Sun Nov-09-03 10:58 AM

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48. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          


---AND, ON THE 8TH DAY, GOD CREATED SWIGGA ... AND SHE WAS VERY, VERY GOOD :=)-

main jawn likes it: www.divasincharge.com/SwiggasBossy.mp3

Challenge what u THINK u know: http://www.WhatThePeopleREALLYThink.com ®

http://www.GoBuyOurShit.com ®

  

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Jaye Swigga
Member since Sep 06th 2003
29904 posts
Sun Nov-09-03 10:57 AM

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47. "a country; a universe"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Nov-09-03 10:58 AM

  

          


---AND, ON THE 8TH DAY, GOD CREATED SWIGGA ... AND SHE WAS VERY, VERY GOOD :=)-

main jawn likes it: www.divasincharge.com/SwiggasBossy.mp3

Challenge what u THINK u know: http://www.WhatThePeopleREALLYThink.com ®

http://www.GoBuyOurShit.com ®

  

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