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Subject: "The best education is KNOWLEDGE OF SELF yay or nay" This topic is locked.
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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 08:28 AM

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"The best education is KNOWLEDGE OF SELF yay or nay"


  

          

how do you feel about this situation.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I think it depends on how one defines the self..
Apr 15th 2005
1
Well to me it is clear
Apr 15th 2005
3
RE: Well to me it is clear
Apr 15th 2005
9
self is not ego though
Apr 16th 2005
29
      Why not?
Apr 16th 2005
30
      RE: self is not ego though
Apr 16th 2005
31
           The self
Apr 17th 2005
40
                The self is a cosmological question meaning how you
Apr 18th 2005
61
yay and nay
Apr 15th 2005
2
Do you seriously think education is about putting food
Apr 15th 2005
4
yes.
Apr 15th 2005
5
      You can't be serious but I won't even bother explaining to you
Apr 15th 2005
7
           allow me to show you how dumb you are.
Apr 15th 2005
10
           because you know you'll sound like an idiot if you even try
Apr 16th 2005
37
lol @ this response
Apr 15th 2005
8
      yes, very funny indeed.
Apr 15th 2005
11
Without a Doubt
Apr 15th 2005
6
shut the fuck up nigga!
Apr 15th 2005
12
Okay.......
Apr 15th 2005
13
no wonder u r an arab nigga
Apr 15th 2005
14
      You are in Tallahassee...As am I,
Apr 15th 2005
22
Agreed.
Apr 15th 2005
15
how can u say "agreed" to a question?
Apr 15th 2005
16
      see.. 'agreed' usually means a positive response.
Apr 15th 2005
19
           huh?
Apr 15th 2005
21
knowledge of self is VERY important...
Apr 15th 2005
17
RE: knowledge of self is VERY important...
Apr 16th 2005
34
Self=Ego
Apr 15th 2005
18
When I say self I don't mean it in the eurocentric
Apr 16th 2005
35
      Okay
Apr 16th 2005
38
I would say a Harvard Law degree is better than a KoS
Apr 15th 2005
20
I don't agree.
Apr 15th 2005
23
      can you elaborate??
Apr 15th 2005
24
           Because if you don't know yourself, and you have a
Apr 15th 2005
25
                ach c'mon take it to Chuck D
Apr 15th 2005
26
                     "If you don't know yourself, how can you better yourself?
Apr 15th 2005
27
KNOWLEDGE IS political
Apr 15th 2005
28
Knowledge is not the same thing
Apr 16th 2005
32
I agree schooling does kill the spirit of learning
Apr 17th 2005
53
      RE: I agree schooling does kill the spirit of learning
Apr 17th 2005
57
aint you in college though!?
Apr 16th 2005
33
so what is your point
Apr 16th 2005
36
      you just proved it.
Apr 16th 2005
39
it must get annoying constantly spelling America that way
Apr 17th 2005
41
      Almost as annoying as
Apr 17th 2005
42
      thats how it is with 15 yr old fake ass internet revolutionaries
Apr 17th 2005
43
      seperatist yes RACIST no RACISM IS A RESULT OF WHITE PEOPLE
Apr 17th 2005
52
      You ain't racist?!!
Apr 17th 2005
55
           I don't believe in the european social construct of race
Apr 17th 2005
56
      damn...you...actually...forget it man
Apr 20th 2005
76
      No but it is pretty annoying how hypocritcal Amerikkka is
Apr 17th 2005
54
Knowledge of self is necessary...
Apr 17th 2005
44
Sorry but
Apr 17th 2005
45
      RE: Sorry for you
Apr 17th 2005
46
      You shouldn't care
Apr 17th 2005
47
      RE: You shouldn't care
Apr 17th 2005
50
           RE: You shouldn't care
Apr 17th 2005
51
      THANK YOU for schooling him
Apr 17th 2005
48
           In fact
Apr 17th 2005
49
      For some reason, folk always wanna escape reality when
Apr 18th 2005
62
           Isn't there a bracing contradiction here?
Apr 18th 2005
63
                Group Consciousness
Apr 18th 2005
64
                Yes, yes , yes!
Apr 18th 2005
66
                     I was thinking cohesion, too
Apr 18th 2005
71
                No.
Apr 18th 2005
65
                     I understand your analogy
Apr 18th 2005
67
                          I don't see ur meaning.
Apr 18th 2005
68
                               Well in the context of what is written about social psychology
Apr 18th 2005
70
                                    That is a different concept. I said that we can be equal and be
Apr 18th 2005
72
                                         I think we are on different wavelengths here.
Apr 18th 2005
73
RE: The best education is KNOWLEDGE OF SELF yay or nay
Apr 17th 2005
58
no
Apr 18th 2005
59
Of course but what would you rather be a zombie
Apr 18th 2005
60
RE: The best education is KNOWLEDGE OF SELF yay or nay
Apr 18th 2005
69
RE: The best education is KNOWLEDGE OF SELF yay or nay
Apr 20th 2005
74
See reply #35
Apr 20th 2005
75

moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3842 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 08:45 AM

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1. "I think it depends on how one defines the self.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

..can you elaborate please?

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:12 AM

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3. "Well to me it is clear"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

that the motivation of education is to ensure the survival of a people. The Amerikkkan system is full of EUROpean imperialism and supremacy but it lets european people know they are some crazy hypocritical genodical motherfuckers hell bent on world domination and to get rich or die trying.

To me it is clear why the educational system doesn't relate to Africans especially black males who are public enemy number one.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3842 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:39 AM

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9. "RE: Well to me it is clear"
In response to Reply # 3


          

>that the motivation of education is to ensure the survival of
>a people. The Amerikkkan system is full of EUROpean
>imperialism and supremacy but it lets european people know
>they are some crazy hypocritical genodical motherfuckers hell
>bent on world domination and to get rich or die trying.
>
>To me it is clear why the educational system doesn't relate to
>Africans especially black males who are public enemy number
>one.


Do you think perhaps it is white privilege to afford a different meaning to the 'self'? Because I don't define it in the same way as you do. In fact, I don't actually think there is such thing as a 'self', but that, it seems, is a different debate..

  

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BassyJazzy
Member since Apr 15th 2005
2046 posts
Sat Apr-16-05 08:51 AM

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29. "self is not ego though"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

really

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Sat Apr-16-05 08:54 AM

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30. "Why not?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>really

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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The Hammer Man
Member since Apr 09th 2005
1858 posts
Sat Apr-16-05 08:54 AM

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31. "RE: self is not ego though"
In response to Reply # 29


          

..only because the two terms come from two different strands of thought. the ego is a freudian term, i don't know where the idea of self comes from but it seems more of a cultural issue than a psychological one.

...guess what, you can't swing in scotland either.

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
3842 posts
Sun Apr-17-05 07:11 AM

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40. "The self"
In response to Reply # 31


          

is a philosophical question..

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Mon Apr-18-05 08:12 AM

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61. "The self is a cosmological question meaning how you"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

view your relationship to the world universe etc. As I stated earlier self in the African centered sense means I AM BECAUSE WE ARE(FAMILY COMMUNITY CULTURE NATION ANCESTORS) not I THINK THEREFORE I AM which is PLUTONIC thought process which is the foundation of Western Academia.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
9433 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:01 AM

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2. "yay and nay"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-15-05 09:04 AM by suave_bro

          

yay for the individual.

nay because it doesn't put food on the table.

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:14 AM

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4. "Do you seriously think education is about putting food"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

on the table?

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
9433 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:21 AM

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5. "yes."
In response to Reply # 4


          

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:29 AM

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7. "You can't be serious but I won't even bother explaining to you"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
9433 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:39 AM

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10. "allow me to show you how dumb you are."
In response to Reply # 7


          

this is what you do. dont let your kids go to public school or college (they are instruments to tear down the black race right? they teach nothing but propaganda right?), just teach them all they need to know about the black race, their history from religion, to africa, slave trade, the whole 9.

by the time your kids are teenagers they are fully equipped to intellectually debate anybody on the history of the black man and what not...but what SKILLS to they possess to put food on the table? without a college education or any skills, what types of jobs will your seeds have outside of manual labor? what good is somebody that knows absolutely NOTHING about the inner workings of "da system" to an employer?

the answer is that you can't get around it. regardless of how u feel about "ameriKKKa", somebody is going to have to learn how to interact with other "ameriKKKans" in order to do business OF ALL RACES, and you are going to have to have SOME type of skill learned on a university or in a classroom somewhere in order to be productive in society...however, mcdonalds and wal-mart are always hiring...

  

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mcdeezjawns
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26056 posts
Sat Apr-16-05 07:40 PM

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37. "because you know you'll sound like an idiot if you even try"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

.

  

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AmenRA
Member since Apr 03rd 2005
313 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:30 AM

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8. "lol @ this response"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

c'mon mayne..

***********************************

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
9433 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:43 AM

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11. "yes, very funny indeed."
In response to Reply # 8


          

for yall to be grown ass men on here in the post civil rights era still questioning the importance of a formal education to a black person in america...yes. this is comedy in its purest form.

  

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AmenRA
Member since Apr 03rd 2005
313 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:24 AM

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6. "Without a Doubt"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Knowledge of Self is where Power emanates. With that said, one had to know self, but defining his self from his reality and experience. African folk gotta define themselves from the African definition of self or else we'll be what we are today.....

***********************************

  

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IsaIsaIsa
Charter member
posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:49 AM

12. "shut the fuck up nigga!"
In response to Reply # 0


          


No Homo®
No Bongo®

Black Girls Rule.

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:50 AM

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13. "Okay......."
In response to Reply # 12
Fri Apr-15-05 02:19 PM by FireBrand

  

          

.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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AmenRA
Member since Apr 03rd 2005
313 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 09:53 AM

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14. "no wonder u r an arab nigga"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

***********************************

  

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IsaIsaIsa
Charter member
posts
Fri Apr-15-05 01:59 PM

22. "You are in Tallahassee...As am I,"
In response to Reply # 14
Fri Apr-15-05 02:20 PM by FireBrand

          

we can meet up & discuss any issues you have with me, as for being an ARAB NIGGA? Da fuck that mean? Im trinidadian!

No Homo®
No Bongo®

Black Girls Rule.

  

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Flem
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Fri Apr-15-05 11:32 AM

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15. "Agreed."
In response to Reply # 0


          

.

http://sagmind.wordpress.com/
http://twitter.com/sagittarianmind

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
9433 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 11:38 AM

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16. "how can u say "agreed" to a question?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

further proof that most of the cats who post on here are stoned off on some shit.

  

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tohunga
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Fri Apr-15-05 01:42 PM

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19. "see.. 'agreed' usually means a positive response."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

yay.

yes.

i agree.

agreed.


..shit, you need to get yourself an education before you try and talk on anyone else getting one.

INGERLISH ONE OH ONE. sign up.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Fri Apr-15-05 01:54 PM

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21. "huh?"
In response to Reply # 19


          

"the best way to vote is republican, yes or no?"

- agreed.

"do u have a dollar i can borrow, yes or no"

- agreed.

"george bush is the second coming of hitler, yes or no"

- agreed.


I'm finding it difficult to see where "agreed" is a viable answer to a yes or no question...now, agreed and an EXPLANATION maybe, but just "agreed?"...no. i see somebody was reading the autobiography of malcolm X during english class.

  

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SONJEVITY
Member since Nov 07th 2003
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Fri Apr-15-05 12:52 PM

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17. "knowledge of self is VERY important..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

imo, it provides a sense of foundation and self-esteem,
which is key to building our communities (regardless of any
roadblocks placed in our paths). We have never been able to
get this knowledge of self from the US education system,
we NEVER will. It wasnt designed for that purpose.

But we also DESPERATELY need knowledge of the innerworkings
of the system we live in. Not just the surface level mechanics,
but how this system effects every aspect of our lives.

---------------------------------------
"We're not weeell...and we cain't teeell" (c) Badu

http://www.myspace.com/sonjevitysgroove

  

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Skyezgrrl
Member since Mar 20th 2005
8452 posts
Sat Apr-16-05 09:28 AM

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34. "RE: knowledge of self is VERY important..."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

I agree with you 100%

Should a person do good, let him do good over and over again. Let him find pleasure therein, for blissful is the accumulation of good ~ Buddhist teachings

Av: was taken in January. I've got a bit more hair now.

  

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Nettrice
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61747 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 01:35 PM

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18. "Self=Ego"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>how do you feel about this situation.

I define self as EGO and here are some interesting quotes I've found:

"A false sense of separateness created by living within delusion."

"... limited sense of 'I' that is identified with the body, mind, and senses; sometimes described as 'the veil of suffering.'"

"The mistaken notion of "I", a separate self, from which all confusion and suffering arises."

"(Latin) The personal pronoun "I"; in philosophy and theosophy, the ego is the center of 'I-am-ship' or egoity in the human being. There are two such centers: the spiritual and impersonal, commonly called the individuality; and the personal, often called the soul or the personality. The former ego is unconditionally immortal, the latter ego is conditionally immortal, but in most cases mortal because of its lack of binding aspirations with its higher Over-self, the individuality."

All from ego&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=defin ego&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

More later...

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Sat Apr-16-05 03:42 PM

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35. "When I say self I don't mean it in the eurocentric"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

plutonic thought way of I think therefore I am but in the African centered way of I am because we are. Thus meaning that knowledge of self is knowledge of who you are which is a result and representation of family community culture etc.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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Nettrice
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61747 posts
Sat Apr-16-05 09:10 PM

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38. "Okay"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

>plutonic thought way of I think therefore I am but in the
>African centered way of I am because we are. Thus meaning that
>knowledge of self is knowledge of who you are which is a
>result and representation of family community culture etc.

Understood...basically the opposite of ego is love. Who we are has to do with the love we have for ourselves and our loved ones. A strong sense of self love is what keeps me in service (community) and what connects me to my immediate family.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Fiver
Member since Oct 18th 2004
1090 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 01:51 PM

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20. "I would say a Harvard Law degree is better than a KoS"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but then again, i have no soul.

  

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FireBrand
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Fri Apr-15-05 02:21 PM

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23. "I don't agree."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          


"I liked it," Gilliam said of playing gunner on punt team. "It was the first time I did anything like that. It was fun. It felt like, if he wasn't fair catching it, he was disrespecting me, so I was trying to take a head off if I could." Response-ability

  

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SONJEVITY
Member since Nov 07th 2003
4478 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 02:25 PM

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24. "can you elaborate??"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

why do you disagree?

---------------------------------------
"We're not weeell...and we cain't teeell" (c) Badu

http://www.myspace.com/sonjevitysgroove

  

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FireBrand
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Fri Apr-15-05 03:30 PM

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25. "Because if you don't know yourself, and you have a"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Degree from Harvard or Harvard Law you can be a bum in the streets much easier than if you have a sense of self and self purpose and have NO degree.


"I liked it," Gilliam said of playing gunner on punt team. "It was the first time I did anything like that. It was fun. It felt like, if he wasn't fair catching it, he was disrespecting me, so I was trying to take a head off if I could." Response-ability

  

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The Hammer Man
Member since Apr 09th 2005
1858 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 03:35 PM

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26. "ach c'mon take it to Chuck D"
In response to Reply # 25


          

..if you don't know yourself you don't know nobody.

...guess what, you can't swing in scotland either.

  

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FireBrand
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145739 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 03:55 PM

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27. ""If you don't know yourself, how can you better yourself?"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

If you don't know the system, how can you change it?

NO man is complete without the love of knowledge." (c) Gamma Phi Eta.



"I liked it," Gilliam said of playing gunner on punt team. "It was the first time I did anything like that. It was fun. It felt like, if he wasn't fair catching it, he was disrespecting me, so I was trying to take a head off if I could." Response-ability

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Fri Apr-15-05 04:39 PM

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28. "KNOWLEDGE IS political"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-15-05 04:44 PM by Taharka

  

          

people tell you what they want you to know for specific reasons. The Educational system in Amerikkka is failing not only African people in AMERIKKKA BUT AMERIKKKANS as a whole. The Amerikkkan education can't compete with the many nations in the world.

The reason why I posted this is because people have major misconceptions about what the meaning of education is. Education or knowledge is for survival of a given group of people and to progress the given society. Africans in Amerikkka are being pimped by the education system which is basically a GIANT HUMAN FILTER.

Notice who fill up the low wage jobs and who the managers are even in areas that are majority white. It is just magic that 40% of Africans in Amerikkka live in poverty and are stuck in dead in low wage jobs. We are being educated into a subordinated consumer class of people.

It filters out many people usually black and poor while a few make it to the Amerikkkan white middle class dream of a midsize house car 2.3 children in the suburbs with a average paying job. They have a nice job but who does it benefit to work for a fortune 500 company are you training to be A CEO AND OPEN SOME DOORS OR JUST A HELPER?

Education determines everything and in Amerikkka and Blacks especially boys are targeted. How can we allow our children to be taught by the same people that run the prisons television shows McDonalds and all the other shit we see. These same people who drug up our children and place them in learning disabled classes at disproportionate rates.

Schools are big business with companies like pepsi calling the shots the same companies that have their hand in the prison industry. Your kid was drinking pepsi products graduated to the state pen where they make pepsi products how IRONIC.

Woman especially African American women are doing well in this current system but then some of us get so caught up in the bullshit that we have a piece of paper or title(degree) so now we can't relate to each other all of a sudden a perfect example of miseducation/ buying into the Amerikkkan dream.

I believe in education to uplift a people but many people are educated fools.

KNOWLEDGE OF SELF.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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Nettrice
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32. "Knowledge is not the same thing"
In response to Reply # 28
Sat Apr-16-05 09:23 AM by Nettrice

  

          

...as knowledge of self. When we are born we put our first attention on the external world, i.e. folks who are in authority. During our formative, years we start the socialization process and this includes preparation for school. Therefore, our emotional, mental and spiritual awareness is developed BEFORE we enter school and this often changes once we enter school.

For example, my parents, being the hippies they were, encouraged me to be a free spirit. This includes my awareness of nature and creativity. I knew how to read and write to some degree before I entered school. One of the first things I had to experience in school was reward and punishment. I was rewarded for being able to follow the rules and punished when I broke them. I learned that specific accomplishments garnered rewards and I did more of that. Before long I became less creative, less imaginative and less sure of myself. My knowledge became more dependent on the external but I was not being my authentic self.

One of the things that saved me was my love of art. Both these activities helped me to learn outside of the box and be more aware of my thoughts, feelings, surroundings. Notice that the first thing that gets cut in schools is art. There is a reason for this:

"Although today the word art usually refers to the visual arts, the concept of what art is has continuously changed over centuries. Perhaps the most concise definition is its broadest—art refers to all creative human endeavors, excluding actions directly related to survival and reproduction. From a wide perspective, art is simply a generic term for any product of the creative impulse, out of which sprang all other human pursuits — such as science via alchemy, and religion via shamanism." - from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art

In school our instruction is carefully programmed to reward, punish and place less value on creativity. However, for Black folks this is all we have (creativity), so we make beats in the classroom and cafeteria. We created hip-hop as a response to what was happening in our external environment. The only problem is we are often limited in how we create, our awareness of the larger picture is missing.

Schools also place less value on our culture and history, etc. In children, especially children with fewer resources, this is damaging to awareness of self. In Black children, this can be disastrous because often we are not taught how to deal with adversity, how to be creative with our responses to racism, sexism, etc. They are become less able to express what they are experiencing because there are no outlets. They become less able to gain skills that will enable them to compete...more able to maintain the status quo.

When knowledge is only about ego and not the creative impulses that develop a higher level of skills, we will always be the victim of the system.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
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53. "I agree schooling does kill the spirit of learning"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

and various types of genius musical artistic etc. but since we are talking about knowledge of ourselves we understand that art, music etc. are a vital part of knowledge right?

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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Nettrice
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57. "RE: I agree schooling does kill the spirit of learning"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

>and various types of genius musical artistic etc. but since
>we are talking about knowledge of ourselves we understand that
>art, music etc. are a vital part of knowledge right?

Yep. Emotions, sensation, sexuality, reproduction, and creativity...these are all related to connecting to our innermost selves and others. The more we are able to connect with this the stronger is the sense of self-worth and self-love. We become healthier psychologically, more resilient and able to deal with adversity.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Sat Apr-16-05 09:24 AM

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33. "aint you in college though!?"
In response to Reply # 28
Sat Apr-16-05 09:25 AM by suave_bro

          

and i know you got your high school diploma so...

  

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Taharka
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36. "so what is your point"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

??????

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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39. "you just proved it."
In response to Reply # 36


          

thank u.

  

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mcdeezjawns
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41. "it must get annoying constantly spelling America that way"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

i mean, over and over again....But hey, i guess that's the price you pay to be an internet revolutionary

  

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moot_point
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42. "Almost as annoying as"
In response to Reply # 41


          

the fact that all of Taharka's forums are poorly-masked racist, separatist rants.

  

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mcdeezjawns
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43. "thats how it is with 15 yr old fake ass internet revolutionaries"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

on this board

  

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Taharka
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52. "seperatist yes RACIST no RACISM IS A RESULT OF WHITE PEOPLE"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

with guilt complexes and vast imaginations.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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moot_point
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55. "You ain't racist?!!"
In response to Reply # 52


          

Perhaps you would like to come over for dinner.

Get real. You blatantly think this racism is your black privilege.

  

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Taharka
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56. "I don't believe in the european social construct of race"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

I didn't create these definitions and I know that their origins and stereotypes are rooted in european guilt/ hypocrisy/ greed etc. etc.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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Boy Wonder
Member since Oct 31st 2003
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76. "damn...you...actually...forget it man"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          


_____________________________
BREAKBEAT PRODUCTIONS PRESENTS: MARLEY RIDDIM E.P

COMING SOON....

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/breakbeatproductions.htm

Africans/Blacks are always under attack from external and internal forces.

  

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Taharka
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54. "No but it is pretty annoying how hypocritcal Amerikkka is"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

and how stupid many Amerikkkans are.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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brokenchains79
Member since Nov 22nd 2003
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44. "Knowledge of self is necessary..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to navigate through their bullshit, without it you get caught up in their bullshit.

******************************
http://myspace.com/jahi
******************************
"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
talk dumb shit about white
women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

  

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moot_point
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45. "Sorry but"
In response to Reply # 44


          

this again seems like racially loaded bollocks to me.

Imagine for a second that there are no different ethicities in the world. How then would you define the 'self'?

  

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brokenchains79
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46. "RE: Sorry for you"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

>this again seems like racially loaded bollocks to me.

So. Why should care about what you think seems racist?

>Imagine for a second that there are no different ethicities in the
>world. How then would you define the 'self'?

The definition wouldn't change, also knowledge of self runs much deeper than ethnicity, but it definitely informs identity.

btw, proposing the impossible is pointless.


******************************
http://myspace.com/jahi
******************************
"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
talk dumb shit about white
women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

  

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moot_point
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47. "You shouldn't care"
In response to Reply # 46


          

>So. Why should care about what you think seems racist?

But this could have been an interesting forum on the self. I gave Taharka the benefit of the doubt to begin with, but it turned out that this was just a re-worded 'fighting each other we lose sight of the enemy' forum.

At second reading your first comment (re navigating bullshit) has some real merit, but the consistent racial subtext is unfortunate because I think it can cloud your intellectual clarity.

>>Imagine for a second that there are no different ethicities
>in the
>>world. How then would you define the 'self'?
>
>The definition wouldn't change, also knowledge of self runs
>much deeper than ethnicity, but it definitely informs
>identity.
>
>btw, proposing the impossible is pointless.
>

Not quite.. that's the power of the imagination; you were able to visualise that scenario and allow it to inform your response.

  

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brokenchains79
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50. "RE: You shouldn't care"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

>So. Why should care about what you think seems racist?

>At second reading your first comment (re navigating bullshit) has
>some real merit, but the consistent racial subtext is unfortunate
>because I think it can cloud your intellectual clarity.

"Navigating bullshit" doesn't have to be racial, but when talking about "formal education" it is definitely racial. Talking about "self" is inherently spiritual and whether people like talking about it or not, our spirit body is housed in a physical body that people have attached value to, based on skin. I don't see why people try to steer around it.


>btw, proposing the impossible is pointless.
>

>Not quite.. that's the power of the imagination; you were able to
> visualise that scenario and allow it to inform your response.

Even if I could create a "perfect world", there would not be one ethnicity. To have a fairytale that isn't even desirable inform my response seems pointless "to me" And even if I did let it inform my response it remains the same.

******************************
http://myspace.com/jahi
******************************
"me as a black man will not
stand here and allow you to
talk dumb shit about white
women that simply is not true"
SouthPhillyMan

  

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moot_point
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51. "RE: You shouldn't care"
In response to Reply # 50


          

>"Navigating bullshit" doesn't have to be racial, but when
>talking about "formal education" it is definitely racial.

Which is why I liked your comment at second reading. All individuals, irrespective of ethnicity or label could use this as a maxim.

>Talking about "self" is inherently spiritual and whether
>people like talking about it or not, our spirit body is housed
>in a physical body that people have attached value to, based
>on skin. I don't see why people try to steer around it.
>

I fully appreciate this. However, Taharka (his ears must be burning!) launched straight into the racial without attempting/wanting to consider any other element of the 'self'. I'm not scared to talk about ethnicity, I just think that at times it re-invents the wheel.

>Even if I could create a "perfect world", there would not be
>one ethnicity. To have a fairytale that isn't even desirable
>inform my response seems pointless "to me" And even if I did
>let it inform my response it remains the same.

I wasn't proposing that the world could or should be ethnically homogeneous. I simply asked you to imagine the scenario in order to stimulate areas of discussion removed from ethnicity. You did, and responded that it wouldn't make a difference to the self. To me that made it worthwhile.

  

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NYC upt JUX
Member since Dec 19th 2004
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48. "THANK YOU for schooling him"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

thank you for tellin him we cant escape race becuz we are black in amerikkka. when a white person that says something like that,he proves he has no idea of the plight of the black/non-white person in this country. and if he is a black person, well then, that was mighty white of him.

www.hiphopmusic.com

"What I don't like is Negro elders finally taking a stand for cultural ethics by way of Caucasian vomit. What this now shows young people is that white guilt is still more powerful than black unity." - Star

  

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moot_point
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49. "In fact"
In response to Reply # 48
Sun Apr-17-05 01:57 PM by moot_point

          

I can't understand it. Were you criticising me then?

  

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FireBrand
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62. "For some reason, folk always wanna escape reality when"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

dealing with complicated issues.

why is that?

The truth is that we are not the same, and we are not all treated as equals. So how does one address this? IMO you gotta work on fixing the problem, but in the meantime u gotta seperate urself from the bullshit or it will drag u down.

Once the shit is fixed, and we can all approach the table as equals then we can talk about that other shit...


"I liked it," Gilliam said of playing gunner on punt team. "It was the first time I did anything like that. It was fun. It felt like, if he wasn't fair catching it, he was disrespecting me, so I was trying to take a head off if I could." Response-ability

  

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moot_point
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63. "Isn't there a bracing contradiction here?"
In response to Reply # 62


          

>The truth is that we are not the same, and we are not all
>treated as equals. So how does one address this? IMO you
>gotta work on fixing the problem, but in the meantime u gotta
>seperate urself from the bullshit or it will drag u down.
>
>Once the shit is fixed, and we can all approach the table as
>equals then we can talk about that other shit...

In one breath you accept that we are not all equal. I agree that nobody is equal - not in a group sense - but in an individual sense. In this respect, whether or not we agree with the ethics of it, individuals will always be treated inequally.

The paradox is this; it is beautiful that everybody is different but it is ugly that people are as an inevitable result treated differently.

Is it not then naively idealistic to state in the other breath that we could one day approach the table as 'equals'?

  

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Nettrice
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64. "Group Consciousness"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

From: http://www.valuescenter.com/www/values/3.htm

"The seven stages in the development of human consciousness also apply to the development of group consciousness; where “group” is defined as a collection of individuals that share a common heritage or purpose. The characteristics of the consciousness of an individual are expressed through the individual’s personality. The characteristics of the consciousness of a group are expressed through the group’s culture. 

Included within the term group are all forms of organizations, such as corporations, government institutions and non-governmental organizations (NGOs), and all forms of social units, such as clans, tribes, communities, nations and humanity as a whole. Group cultures grow and develop in the same way as individual personalities – by successfully mastering the beliefs associated with each of the seven life needs. The most successful groups are those that develop full-spectrum consciousness. They are able to respond appropriately to all of life’s challenges. The seven stages in the development of group consciousness are shown below."

The article goes on to list the 7 stages (click on the link above to see them). What I found interesting was what comes after that, i.e. the description that describes the competencies and mastery of these stages. For example:

"Groups learn to master stage 1 by developing skills and abilities to ensure the physical and financial survival of the group. Groups learn to master stage 2 by developing skills and abilities to create harmonious internal relationships that give group members a sense of belonging. Groups learn to master stage 3 by developing the rules, structures and order that allow the group to perform effectively on their own or in competition with other groups."

The problem is not solely with the individual because the "characteristics of the consciousness of a group are expressed through the group’s culture". We, as individuals are very much connected to our groups. IMHO, as a group, Black folks are aware of inequality through our inability (in some instances) to get from one stage to another...because of adversity. We know the playing field is not level and some of us meet the challenge by getting educated & climbing and others quit. Most folks get to some level and camp out without reaching the higher stages. It's as if they all know there is a ceiling or limit to how far they can climb.

In other words, as above, so below.

"From a psychological perspective, the first three stages in the development of group consciousness represent stages in the development of the group ego, and the last three stages represent stages in the development (or unfolding) of the group soul. Between the last stage in the development of the group ego and the first stage in the development of the group soul lies the fourth stage in the development of group consciousness (transformation). This is the stage where the group learns to align the needs of its ego with the needs of its soul.

The levels of consciousness that a group operates from, is a direct reflection of the levels of consciousness of the decision-making authority of the group."

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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moot_point
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66. "Yes, yes , yes!"
In response to Reply # 64


          


>"The seven stages in the development of human consciousness
>also apply to the development of group consciousness; where
>“group” is defined as a collection of individuals that share a
>common heritage or purpose. The characteristics of the
>consciousness of an individual are expressed through the
>individual’s personality. The characteristics of the
>consciousness of a group are expressed through the group’s
>culture. 

I agree with this social psychology model. But you can use the model to identify the seemingly entrenched problem. I've written before that egocentricity to the individual is ethnocentrism to the group. Doesn't the problem arise at cohesion level? Individuals and groups identify and sustain themselves as much by their perceived similarites but also by the perceived differences of others. Colour is a highly salient difference..

  

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Nettrice
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71. "I was thinking cohesion, too"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

...when I read the article.

"Groups work best when all members of the group, or all sub-groups, share a common vision of the future and operate on the basis of a shared set of beliefs. In other words, group cultures are more cohesive when there is cultural fit. In such situations, members of the group are able to operate with responsible freedom and decision-making authority can be pushed to the periphery. When beliefs are not shared internal factions develop. This can threaten the survival of the group entity. The decision-making authority must decide in this case how to deal with these differences."

>Doesn't the problem arise at
>cohesion level? Individuals and groups identify and sustain
>themselves as much by their perceived similarites but also by
>the perceived differences of others. Colour is a highly
>salient difference.

I see lots of Black folks at the transformation level where they are adapting or learning to adapt to the external environment and meet their needs. This is usually where folks start to camp out. They don't take it to the next level or stage.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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FireBrand
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65. "No."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

It is possible.

Different does not mean inequity. If I want my water in a cube shaped tumbler and u want it in a oval shaped tumbler I can still pour each of 8 fluid oz of water.




"I liked it," Gilliam said of playing gunner on punt team. "It was the first time I did anything like that. It was fun. It felt like, if he wasn't fair catching it, he was disrespecting me, so I was trying to take a head off if I could." Response-ability

  

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moot_point
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Mon Apr-18-05 09:16 AM

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67. "I understand your analogy"
In response to Reply # 65


          

>It is possible.
>
>Different does not mean inequity. If I want my water in a
>cube shaped tumbler and u want it in a oval shaped tumbler I
>can still pour each of 8 fluid oz of water.

but doesn't it fail when you give the tumbler a 'self'?

  

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FireBrand
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68. "I don't see ur meaning."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          


"I liked it," Gilliam said of playing gunner on punt team. "It was the first time I did anything like that. It was fun. It felt like, if he wasn't fair catching it, he was disrespecting me, so I was trying to take a head off if I could." Response-ability

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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Mon Apr-18-05 09:34 AM

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70. "Well in the context of what is written about social psychology"
In response to Reply # 68


          

What happens when the cube shaped tumbler starts identifying with other cube shape tumblers at the cost of the oval-shaped tumbler?

  

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FireBrand
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72. "That is a different concept. I said that we can be equal and be"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

Different.

You can't say a cube shaped tumbler is worthless because it doesn't match your set ovalware and then either marginalize it to use for the children or throw it out when it might have been made from cyrtal comparable in worth to the oval tumbler.

If that's the case, someone without the ovalware bias has to step in and say hey- don't be mad at the cubed tumbler for being cube shaped. You are misusing these items. Recognize them for their true worth instead of being mad that they aint oval.


"I liked it," Gilliam said of playing gunner on punt team. "It was the first time I did anything like that. It was fun. It felt like, if he wasn't fair catching it, he was disrespecting me, so I was trying to take a head off if I could." Response-ability

  

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moot_point
Member since Mar 22nd 2005
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Mon Apr-18-05 12:15 PM

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73. "I think we are on different wavelengths here."
In response to Reply # 72


          


>You can't say a cube shaped tumbler is worthless because it
>doesn't match your set ovalware and then either marginalize it
>to use for the children or throw it out when it might have
>been made from cyrtal comparable in worth to the oval
>tumbler.
>
>If that's the case, someone without the ovalware bias has to
>step in and say hey- don't be mad at the cubed tumbler for
>being cube shaped. You are misusing these items. Recognize
>them for their true worth instead of being mad that they aint
>oval.
>

I was personifying the tumblers. For example the cube shaped tumbler is a white man and the oval shaped tumbler is a black man. In keeping with this, who is the 'you' who 'can't say' in your above example?

Some differences are rational and some are emotional. Of course you can say that cube shaped tumbler has the same capacity as the oval shaped tumbler, irrespective of their shape, but you cannot say that one individual white man has the same capacity as one individual black man because its not true. Just like you cannot say that one individual white man has the same capacity as another individual white man. We are not only different, but we all have different capacities. Or at least that is the way that individuals PERCEIVE things wehen they seek an ingroup.

The difference in colour is an emotional difference. In a perfect world it should not inform ingroup association, but it does and I can understand why. Look at things empirically. Name one mixed ethnic group that genuinely gets on in the world. This is why I think the key is in education; not to teach all ethnicites that they are different as proposed by this forum, but to teach that in the final analysis, in terms of colour, that is not a legitimate signifier of difference.

  

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urthanheaven
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626 posts
Sun Apr-17-05 11:22 PM

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58. "RE: The best education is KNOWLEDGE OF SELF yay or nay"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

yes.

yay.

aye.

hai.

kos is the foundation of all knowledge and the wealth spring from which true knowledge comes.

to know something is not to have it pushed into your head. you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it think. no one can learn for you. you need knowledge of self to even begin to be able to use the information that you recieve.

knowledge of self is your operating system...

i guess in that sense the question is missleading. it's kind of like saying the best education is having a head. rather i would say that you are not trully educated untill you have knowledge of self...

call it enlightenment. the god waking up to knowhimself. seeing all of creation and figuring out your place in it. unified theory. a mathematic equation that makes the universe fall into place.

ok!

  

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p_oz
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Mon Apr-18-05 07:43 AM

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59. "no"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

you need it. BUt if you don't know how to interact with the world.

p-oz

(okp formerly known as why_did_I_think_it_would_be_cool_to_change_my_login_name_only_to_keep_the_old_one_in_my_sig_forever)

•••••••• •••••••• ••••••••

Great cheap webhosting:
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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Mon Apr-18-05 08:04 AM

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60. "Of course but what would you rather be a zombie"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

puppet to a person that can make their own decisions.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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chief1284
Member since Nov 08th 2004
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Mon Apr-18-05 09:21 AM

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69. "RE: The best education is KNOWLEDGE OF SELF yay or nay"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

most definately. I think knowledge of self is probably the key step to happiness and success in any sense or field of work. Though at the same time, its not something that can be easily taught or anything, its something for you to work out alone.

------------------------------------------------------------

Check my man Lao at www.myspace.com/lazzriel

  

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Soulbrotha
Member since Feb 18th 2004
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Wed Apr-20-05 11:58 AM

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74. "RE: The best education is KNOWLEDGE OF SELF yay or nay"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

There is nothing good in the 'self' imo.

"Do to others what you would others have done unto you." - The Lord Jesus Christ

SB Video: http://www.youtube.com/soulbrothavideo
SB tweet:www.twitter.com/soulb

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Wed Apr-20-05 12:07 PM

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75. "See reply #35"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

!!!!!1

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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