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Subject: "Fantasia's 'Baby Mama' Song Sends Bad Message?" This topic is locked.
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3X
Member since Oct 18th 2004
7667 posts
Sun Apr-10-05 04:12 PM

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"Fantasia's 'Baby Mama' Song Sends Bad Message?"


  

          

Do you think this song will have a positive or negative affect on young black females? Personally i have mixed feelings on this issue. the mother of civilization has been reduced down to a 'baby mama.' post your thoughts. - 3X


Commentary: New Nominee for Grand Prize in the Stupidity Sweepstakes? Fantasia's 'Baby Mama'
Date: Wednesday, April 06, 2005
By: Gregory Kane, BlackAmericaWeb.com

There’s a Stupidity Sweepstakes going on in black America, and some folks are determined to win the prize.

First we had Destiny’s Child, those pulchritudinous but apparently daft lasses who gave us a song about their beloved “souljahs.”

A brother “had to be street if he’s looking at me,” the trio told us. If the guy’s status wasn’t “hood,” they “weren’t checkin’ for him.”

Not to be outdone in the Stupidity Sweepstakes — there must be one heck of a prize for the winner — we now have Fantasia putting in her bid for a victory. Her latest song, now stinking out airwaves near you, is called “Baby Mama.”

Fantasia, winner of last year’s “American Idol” contest, dedicates the song “to all my baby mamas.” Being a baby mama these days, Fantasia tells us, is a “badge of honor.” Those “single mothers trying to make a way,” she goes on, should have their own holiday.

And I thought that Destiny’s Child had dredged the depths of doofus with their song about “souljahs.”

As I listened to Fantasia caterwauling about how great it is to be a “baby mama,” I was reminded once again why I hate the show “American Idol.” It’s not just that it has those with no talent judging the minimally talented (I exclude the gorgeous AND talented Paula Abdul from that assertion). It’s that any of us can go to any storefront church in black America and find better singers than the ones that appear on the show.

That’s bad enough. But now we have one of these marginally talented “winners” running around the country extolling the virtues of making a mistake?

Let’s face it: that’s what many “baby mamas” have done. They got knocked up by some loser who couldn’t or wouldn’t marry them. That’s a mistake. You don’t go around singing songs praising your mistakes. You correct them.

But let’s assume -— and believe me, this is only for argument’s sake -— that Fantasia is right, and that “baby mamas” do deserve praise. Why do they deserve more praise than the sisters who decide to get married and then have children? Why do “baby mamas” deserve more praise than those sisters who decided to wait before either having children or getting married and decided to attend college and get a career and degree first?

And isn’t Fantasia ignoring the wealth of problems single motherhood has brought black America? If I’ve heard one person involved in juvenile justice matters tell me once, they’ve told me a score of times: most of the young black men in “the system” come from homes with a single mother. No father around. In a town like Baltimore, where 75 percent of black boys don’t graduate from high school, you can bet most of those dropouts are the sons of “baby mamas.”

Speaking at Morgan State University two years ago, author Jawanza Kunjufu told a room full of black folks that “the greatest demon in black America is fatherlessness. The common variable for the black dropout rate, the incarceration rate and drug use is the daddy didn’t stay.”

Kunjufu noted that 90 percent of black families had a father in the home in 1920 and 80 percent as recently as 1960. Today the figure is 32 percent.

“Slavery did not destroy the black family,” Kunjufu correctly concluded.

It took a value shift of seismic proportion among black Americans of the latter part of the 20th century to do what slavery, white racists and white racism couldn’t do in the hundreds of years before. And now we have dimwitted people like Fantasia celebrating that value shift in songs extolling the virtues of being a “baby mama.”

She’ll have her defenders, I’m sure. There’ll be folks saying that some baby mamas do wonders for their children, struggle against overwhelming odds and have it going on.

But included in the baby mama numbers are those teen-age girls -— poor, uneducated and unemployed -— who do neither themselves nor their children a favor by giving birth too soon. It also includes those baby mamas on crack or heroin who shouldn’t even have thought of conceiving a child. And Fantasia’s song was a tribute to all baby mamas.

“All” is one of the least ambiguous words in the English language. It doesn’t mean some. It doesn’t mean most.

“All” means all.

-------
It's incredible how the people that know the least are the first to offer advice.

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
I'll be the first to say I think the song is DISGUSTING.
Apr 07th 2005
1
White Amerikkka would kill Becky & Em
Apr 07th 2005
4
      Sickening, isn't it?
Apr 07th 2005
7
Negroes don't care
Apr 07th 2005
2
A lot of cats dismiss everything Suave_Bro says,
Apr 07th 2005
3
      Cause Suave hoe ain't no bro he coming from a eurocentric
Apr 07th 2005
38
           eurocentric bullshit base?
Apr 08th 2005
70
damn well said
Apr 07th 2005
5
I've never heard the song.
Apr 07th 2005
6
You need to shout 'ALHAMDULILAH'!!!
Apr 07th 2005
8
      It's that bad? Really? somebody post the lyrics.
Apr 07th 2005
9
           YES SIR. And I REFUSE to post those lyrics. I heard
Apr 07th 2005
10
           violent much?
Apr 14th 2005
195
           Here you go
Apr 07th 2005
11
                *vomits all over keyboard*
Apr 07th 2005
12
                What is the problem with this song?
Apr 07th 2005
22
                     Come on brother...
Apr 07th 2005
31
                     Shameful?
Apr 08th 2005
47
                     2 points:
Apr 08th 2005
60
                     RE: 2 points:
Apr 08th 2005
69
                          you need to sign off
Apr 08th 2005
77
                          You first
Apr 08th 2005
82
                               RE: You first
Apr 08th 2005
87
                                    RE: You first
Apr 08th 2005
102
                          Sister, you are SOLIDIFYING MY POINTS:
Apr 08th 2005
80
                               RE: Sister, you are SOLIDIFYING MY POINTS:
Apr 08th 2005
103
                     No, birthing babies is not wonderful no matter the situation.
Apr 08th 2005
85
                     Cmon man, she's shouting out the successful single mothers
Apr 08th 2005
64
                          That's what I took from it.
Apr 08th 2005
86
                     RE: What is the problem with this song?
Apr 13th 2005
180
this post makes me wanna go Cosby in here
Apr 07th 2005
13
this nigga is clownin AND has a poor grasp of the english language.
Apr 07th 2005
14
Yep
Apr 07th 2005
15
i'll step up and say it was "reactionary"
Apr 07th 2005
16
it's cool. i'm not saying the song is a classic
Apr 07th 2005
17
      the sad part is:
Apr 07th 2005
18
co-sign... LOL @ haters actin' like Fantasia invented baby mommas
Apr 07th 2005
19
fuck all the politics
Apr 07th 2005
21
that's what I got from the song..
Apr 08th 2005
43
      can we be honest for a second tho?
Apr 08th 2005
44
           true
Apr 08th 2005
59
                encourage destructive behavior??? that's laughable.
Apr 08th 2005
61
                     i feel like a broken record
Apr 08th 2005
63
                          I may be wrong but...
Apr 11th 2005
128
                               why do they deserve support?
Apr 11th 2005
132
                                    I see your point
Apr 12th 2005
154
                                         solutions are simple.
Apr 12th 2005
158
                                              Dang...same thing with my grandmother/pops
Apr 12th 2005
172
DUMBEST PARAGRAPH IN THE ARTICLE:
Apr 07th 2005
20
The only part of the song I have a problem with
Apr 07th 2005
23
what's wrong with motherhood being a badge of honor??
Apr 07th 2005
24
      RE: what's wrong with motherhood being a badge of honor??
Apr 07th 2005
25
           the word "single" is not mentioned ONCE in the song
Apr 07th 2005
26
           RE: the word "single" is not mentioned ONCE in the song
Apr 07th 2005
27
           do you honestly think talk shows reflect reality??
Apr 07th 2005
28
                RE: do you honestly think talk shows reflect reality??
Apr 08th 2005
45
           You either can't HEAR, or can't READ...
Apr 08th 2005
66
                dude, you're reaching. just log off, please.
Apr 08th 2005
67
                     How am I reaching? He said the word 'single'
Apr 08th 2005
89
           She's saying successfull single motherhood requires recognition
Apr 08th 2005
62
RE: Fantasia's 'Baby Mama' Song Sends Bad Message?
Apr 07th 2005
29
^^^the truth^^^^^^^^
Apr 07th 2005
30
That's very true
Apr 07th 2005
32
RE: That's very true
Apr 07th 2005
33
This post should've ended w/ this
Apr 07th 2005
36
But look on the other side how do these kids come about
Apr 07th 2005
39
      RE: But look on the other side how do these kids come about
Apr 08th 2005
40
      Oh it has everything to do with it
Apr 08th 2005
41
           none of which has anything to do with the song
Apr 08th 2005
42
                I like the Ricky Smiley version better
Apr 08th 2005
51
      Just in it for sex?
Apr 08th 2005
46
           u are going 2 have to start dealing in reality @ some point
Apr 08th 2005
72
                RE: u are going 2 have to start dealing in reality @ some point
Apr 08th 2005
76
                     RE: u are going 2 have to start dealing in reality @ some point
Apr 08th 2005
81
The comments in the post are KILLING ME!
Apr 07th 2005
34
OK
Apr 07th 2005
35
you're the one making excuses to hate...
Apr 07th 2005
37
Nope
Apr 08th 2005
48
RE: Nope
Apr 08th 2005
49
      *sigh*
Apr 08th 2005
52
      RE: *sigh*
Apr 08th 2005
53
      "LIKE a badge of a honor" not "was" or "is"
Apr 08th 2005
55
           RE: "LIKE a badge of a honor" not "was" or "is"
Apr 08th 2005
57
                directs you to post 44
Apr 08th 2005
58
      Cosign
Apr 08th 2005
54
      Yeah, some people were sick on similes and metaphors day
Apr 08th 2005
65
      Most ridiculous, semantical argument in the
Apr 08th 2005
90
      Black Girl Pain
Apr 08th 2005
71
           Kweli had both of his parents though
Apr 08th 2005
73
           So what?
Apr 08th 2005
74
           RE: Black Girl Pain
Apr 08th 2005
75
                RE: Black Girl Pain
Apr 08th 2005
78
                     ok, there's our disagreement
Apr 08th 2005
79
                          RE: ok, there's our disagreement
Apr 08th 2005
83
                               RE: ok, there's our disagreement
Apr 08th 2005
84
Best part of the article...
Apr 08th 2005
50
Good intentions, bad songwriting
Apr 08th 2005
56
very, very good article.
Apr 08th 2005
68
RE: very, very good article.
Apr 14th 2005
189
3X's Thoughts
Apr 08th 2005
88
Pretty good synopsis.
Apr 08th 2005
91
really?
Apr 08th 2005
92
You had me 'til coonery. I see what you are saying.
Apr 08th 2005
93
      POOR CHOICE OF WORDS
Apr 08th 2005
94
      so do rappers catch heat for sayin nigga to no end?
Apr 08th 2005
99
           they don't but they should
Apr 08th 2005
101
                don't u think its dishonest for someone to be...
Apr 09th 2005
106
                     the author of the article has written pieces criticizing rappers also
Apr 09th 2005
118
                          i had posters beefin' with the song in mind
Apr 09th 2005
120
      Single motherhood #1 problem?+black male irrisponsibility
Apr 08th 2005
95
           RE: Single motherhood #1 problem?+black male irrisponsibility
Apr 08th 2005
97
                RE: Single motherhood #1 problem?+black male irrisponsibility
Apr 08th 2005
104
                     RE: Single motherhood #1 problem?+black male irrisponsibility
Apr 09th 2005
105
                          B.S.
Apr 09th 2005
107
                               RE: B.S.
Apr 09th 2005
110
                                    RE: B.S.
Apr 09th 2005
111
                                    RE: B.S.
Apr 09th 2005
112
                                         RE: B.S.
Apr 09th 2005
113
                                              RE: B.S.
Apr 09th 2005
114
                                    RE: B.S.
Apr 09th 2005
116
                                         i don't want to get too personal, but
Apr 09th 2005
117
                                              RE: i don't want to get too personal, but
Apr 09th 2005
119
                                                   you really, really need to read this book
Apr 09th 2005
121
                                                        RE: you really, really need to read this book
Apr 09th 2005
122
A lot of y'all are missing the big picture.
Apr 08th 2005
96
Yep
Apr 09th 2005
108
Badge of Honor?
Apr 08th 2005
98
Not really saying it is a badge of honor
Apr 09th 2005
109
RE: Fantasia's 'Baby Mama' Song Sends Bad Message?
Apr 08th 2005
100
if Fantasia sang being a baby momma is a badge of shame...
Apr 09th 2005
123
SIMPLE QUESTION
Apr 10th 2005
125
      simple answer
Apr 11th 2005
146
           RE: simple answer
Apr 12th 2005
177
                i see a lot of things wrong with the "baby momma" stereotype...
Apr 14th 2005
191
We keep stereotypes alive
Apr 10th 2005
124
RE: Fantasia's 'Baby Mama' Song Sends Bad Message?
Apr 10th 2005
126
I like it. It's a catchy tune.
Apr 10th 2005
127
single motherhood is more a class issue
Apr 11th 2005
129
RE: single motherhood is more a class issue
Apr 11th 2005
130
the average white woman is richer
Apr 11th 2005
133
      so u dont have the evidence 2 support your argument?
Apr 11th 2005
135
           2 things
Apr 11th 2005
136
                Question about this point:
Apr 11th 2005
138
                bout as much as being realistic does
Apr 11th 2005
139
                RE: 2 things
Apr 11th 2005
141
                     u have a link that says blackgenocide
Apr 11th 2005
142
                          wow.
Apr 12th 2005
151
it's a cultural issue
Apr 11th 2005
131
      im gonna research that
Apr 11th 2005
134
           Please, allow me
Apr 11th 2005
137
                ok i stand corrected
Apr 11th 2005
140
                     RE: ok i stand corrected
Apr 11th 2005
143
                          maybe it was the sense of community that
Apr 11th 2005
144
                               RE: maybe it was the sense of community that
Apr 11th 2005
145
Let me echo some other sentiments here.
Apr 11th 2005
147
Hate is a strong word
Apr 12th 2005
149
      Much of this has already been said in this thread but...
Apr 12th 2005
153
           THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU...1,000,000%
Apr 12th 2005
155
           *Head nod*
Apr 12th 2005
156
           A song is a song...
Apr 12th 2005
160
                WTF!?!?
Apr 12th 2005
161
                RE: A song is a song...
Apr 12th 2005
162
                     very well said
Apr 12th 2005
163
                     Excellent points...
Apr 12th 2005
165
                     RE: Excellent points...
Apr 12th 2005
167
                     RE: Excellent points...
Apr 12th 2005
170
                          Never mad...
Apr 12th 2005
173
                     LOL.
Apr 12th 2005
168
                     RE: A song is a song...
Apr 12th 2005
166
                          RE: A song is a song...
Apr 12th 2005
169
                               Cool...
Apr 12th 2005
174
                                    RE: Cool...
Apr 12th 2005
175
                                         RE: Cool...
Apr 12th 2005
176
                                              RE: Cool...
Apr 13th 2005
179
                                                   RE: Cool...
Apr 13th 2005
184
                                                        Again.
Apr 13th 2005
187
Again, It's Not That Serious
Apr 11th 2005
148
Refocusing priorities
Apr 12th 2005
150
      whats funnier
Apr 12th 2005
152
           Huh?
Apr 12th 2005
157
                errr...from somebody who admits to not reading my post's
Apr 12th 2005
159
                     RE: errr...from somebody who admits to not reading my post's
Apr 12th 2005
164
                          RE: errr...from somebody who admits to not reading my post's
Apr 12th 2005
171
                               Baby mama, sperm donor...
Apr 12th 2005
178
                                    RE: Baby mama, sperm donor...
Apr 13th 2005
181
                                    Good
Apr 13th 2005
183
                                         RE: Good
Apr 13th 2005
185
                                              Agreed but
Apr 14th 2005
194
                                    RE: Baby mama, sperm donor...
Apr 13th 2005
182
                                         RE: Baby mama, sperm donor...
Apr 13th 2005
186
I dont think the girl meant to big up having children out of wedlock...
Apr 14th 2005
188
Her album went plat, yo
Apr 14th 2005
190
wow... good for her
Apr 14th 2005
192
Ha!
Apr 14th 2005
193

MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
10706 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 05:35 PM

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1. "I'll be the first to say I think the song is DISGUSTING."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

How can it be a "badge of honor" to be a "baby's mama"? In my humble opinion, I think it is horrible that somebody thought it necessary to write about and sing the praises of Black children being born out of wedlock. (over 70%) This horrible phenomenon is the catalyst to a number of problems in our communities.

My question is this, would Lindsey Lohan, Hillary Duff, Jessica Simpson, Britney Spears or any other of them other white teeny-bopper girls sing that song? How would the white general public respond if they did? But because it's a single BLACK female singing this song, it's okay...Everybody knows that us low moral-having nigras make bastard babies every chance we get. SAD.

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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G_Smooth
Member since Oct 07th 2003
4109 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 06:02 PM

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4. "White Amerikkka would kill Becky & Em"
In response to Reply # 1
Thu Apr-07-05 06:04 PM by G_Smooth

          

Their song writers would neva fathom writing this type of bullshit...Sad that out of all of her shitty songs...they use Baby Mama as the single...The Record Company know it's all a number game.

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
10706 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 06:09 PM

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7. "Sickening, isn't it?"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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G_Smooth
Member since Oct 07th 2003
4109 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 05:54 PM

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2. "Negroes don't care"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I know i'm taking a SuaveBro stance....but only a few Negroes will be alarmed by this...the rest will __________.

Some Negroes will be watching Amerikkkan Idol and crying for the pope...

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
10706 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 05:59 PM

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3. "A lot of cats dismiss everything Suave_Bro says,"
In response to Reply # 2
Thu Apr-07-05 05:59 PM by MALACHI

  

          

but that cat really is on point on a lot of issues. I know he agrees that that this song should be extremely disturbing in light of Black illegetimacy rates.

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 11:54 PM

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38. "Cause Suave hoe ain't no bro he coming from a eurocentric"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

bullshit base.

I think the song is stupid but I think a lot of shit on the radio is stupid.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
9433 posts
Fri Apr-08-05 10:35 AM

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70. "eurocentric bullshit base?"
In response to Reply # 38


          

man what does that even mean...

anyway, its good to see that folks who dont always agree can agree that this song encourages the wrong message. though i believe that the mentallity that generated this song is already there (cmon now, we've been calling our single mothers STRONG and BRAVE for the past 10 years), i dont think there is a need to throw gasoline on the fire...

  

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rogue_scholar
Member since Feb 14th 2003
7647 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 06:08 PM

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5. "damn well said"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that song is ridiculous and shameful.

straight coon shit. don't get me fuckin started...


**************
rS

--Any belief worth having must survive doubt-

  

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FireBrand
Charter member
145739 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 06:09 PM

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6. "I've never heard the song."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


******************************
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines
----------------------
http://www.myspace.com/egyptianknight
******************************
Inaug'ral Member of the OkaySports Hall of Fame.

<---- It'll cure what ails ya...

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
10706 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 06:10 PM

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8. "You need to shout 'ALHAMDULILAH'!!!"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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FireBrand
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145739 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 06:12 PM

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9. "It's that bad? Really? somebody post the lyrics."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


******************************
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines
----------------------
http://www.myspace.com/egyptianknight
******************************
Inaug'ral Member of the OkaySports Hall of Fame.

<---- It'll cure what ails ya...

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
10706 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 06:16 PM

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10. "YES SIR. And I REFUSE to post those lyrics. I heard"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

my little girl singing that song, and almost whipped MY WIFE'S behind for letting my daughter hear that trash.

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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afrogirl
Member since Aug 16th 2002
16597 posts
Thu Apr-14-05 10:34 PM

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195. "violent much?"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>my little girl singing that song, and almost whipped MY
>WIFE'S behind for letting my daughter hear that trash.

******************************************

Please welcome baby Askia into the world!! 10/16/10.

  

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Bdiddy04
Member since Oct 28th 2004
1591 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 06:20 PM

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11. "Here you go"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          


B-A-B-Y M-A-M-A
This goes out to all my baby mamas
This goes out to all my baby mamas
B-A-B-Y M-A-M-A
This goes out to all my baby mamas
I got love for all my baby mamas

It's about time we had our own song
Don't know what took so long
Cause nowadays it's like a badge of honor
To be a baby mama
I see ya payin' ya bills
I see ya workin' ya job
I see ya goin' to school
And girl I know it's hard
And even though ya fed up
With makin' beds up
Girl, keep ya head up
All my


B-A-B-Y M-A-M-A
This goes out to all my baby mamas
This goes out to all my baby mamas
B-A-B-Y M-A-M-A
This goes out to all my baby mamas
I got love for all my baby mamas

I see you get that support check in the mail
You open it and you'er like, What the Hell
You say, This ain't even half of daycare
Sayin' to yourself, This shit ain't fair
And all my girls who don't get no help
Who gotta do everything by yourself
Remember, what don't kill you can only make you stronger
My baby mama


B-A-B-Y M-A-M-A
This goes out to all my baby mamas
This goes out to all my baby mamas
B-A-B-Y M-A-M-A
This goes out to all my baby mamas
I got love for all my baby mamas

Cause we the backbone (of the hood)
I always knew that (that we could)
We can go anywhere, we can do anything
I know we can make it if we dream
And I think it should be a holiday
For single mothers, tryin' to make a way
But until then, here is your song
Show love to my....


B-A-B-Y M-A-M-A
This goes out to all my baby mamas
This goes out to all my baby mamas
B-A-B-Y M-A-M-A
This goes out to all my baby mamas
I got love for all my baby mamas

_______________________________________
Follow me @bstokessmooth

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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12. "*vomits all over keyboard*"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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FireBrand
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22. "What is the problem with this song?"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

I don't think it exactly supports the idea of family as maybe the ideal we would like to see, but I don't think it's sayin they are better off like this. It's just rally cry for a very real situation, no?

Tell me why exactly this is so bad.


******************************
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http://www.myspace.com/egyptianknight
******************************
Inaug'ral Member of the OkaySports Hall of Fame.

<---- It'll cure what ails ya...

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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Thu Apr-07-05 11:02 PM

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31. "Come on brother..."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

She said "nowadays it's like a BADGE OF HONOR to BE A BABY'S MAMA"

Do our young girls need to hear that? NO!! They need to hear that having a child out of wedlock is a SHAMEFUL thing, it makes your life much harder than it needs to be, and leads to all kinds of problems for the child, the "baby's mama", and the community.

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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Nettrice
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Fri Apr-08-05 08:34 AM

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47. "Shameful?"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Birthing babies is wonderful no matter the situation. However, birthing babies and the casual attitude I see both women and men take as it relates to sex is both shameful and sad. Young girls are looking at women AND men as far as what to learn about sex.

>Do our young girls need to hear that? NO!! They need to hear
>that having a child out of wedlock is a SHAMEFUL thing, it
>makes your life much harder than it needs to be, and leads to
>all kinds of problems for the child, the "baby's mama", and
>the community.

As the child of a divorced, single Black mother I disagree.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 09:52 AM

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60. "2 points:"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

>Birthing babies is wonderful no matter the situation.
There is absolutely NOTHING "wonderful" about a 14 year old Black girl "birthing babies", with no education, no job and no life skills. For every baby mama success story, there are probably at least 10 tragedies...not to mention all those caught in the middle just scraping by. Is the emergence of a life into this world SUPPOSED to be wonderful, YES, it is...the REALITY of the matter is all to often it's not.

>As the child of a divorced, single Black mother I disagree.
There is a huge difference between a grown woman becoming a single parent via divorce, and 14 year old having a baby. You are comparing apples to hand grenades.

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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Nettrice
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69. "RE: 2 points:"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

>There is absolutely NOTHING "wonderful" about a 14 year old
>Black girl "birthing babies", with no education, no job and no
>life skills.

Man, we have been birthing babies at an early age since we got here on the slave ships. Ain't nothin' new. That why I am always talking about self-fulfilling prophecy because unless women AND men change then our children will continue to repeat the same thing.

>For every baby mama success story, there are
>probably at least 10 tragedies...not to mention all those
>caught in the middle just scraping by. Is the emergence of a
>life into this world SUPPOSED to be wonderful, YES, it
>is...the REALITY of the matter is all to often it's not.
>
>>As the child of a divorced, single Black mother I disagree.
>There is a huge difference between a grown woman becoming a
>single parent via divorce, and 14 year old having a baby. You
>are comparing apples to hand grenades.

I don't think so. Right now I am mentoring a kid in foster care whose mother is pregnant again (she is in her 30s). All of her children have either been adopted away or in foster care and she's about to have another one. She has repeated this pattern since she was 16. For every "14 year old" having a baby there are older mothers like this one who are still not equipped to raise a child.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:18 AM

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77. "you need to sign off"
In response to Reply # 69
Fri Apr-08-05 12:00 PM by FireBrand

          

>Man, we have been birthing babies at an early age since we got
>here on the slave ships. Ain't nothin' new. That why I am
>always talking about self-fulfilling prophecy because unless
>women AND men change then our children will continue to repeat
>the same thing.

- WTF? first you start off by saying that child birth @ the age of 14 is "nothing new", then you say that we will repeat the same thing and men and women need to change? HUH!? look, I know u want to win this "debate" but you are going to have to be clear on whether you agree with black teen unwed mothers or not...


>>There is a huge difference between a grown woman becoming a
>>single parent via divorce, and 14 year old having a baby.
>You
>>are comparing apples to hand grenades.


>I don't think so. Right now I am mentoring a kid in foster
>care whose mother is pregnant again (she is in her 30s).

- really? i had no idea you mentored children. why haven't you mentioned this before? (10 paypal dollars to whoever cant detect the msacras)

>All
>of her children have either been adopted away or in foster
>care and she's about to have another one. She has repeated
>this pattern since she was 16. For every "14 year old" having
>a baby there are older mothers like this one who are still not
>equipped to raise a child.

- uhmmmm you just proved his point even further. she started having babies at 16.

  

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Nettrice
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82. "You first"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

I love when you come in with the attacks. I'm not scared of you. Ha, ha! :-P

>- WTF? first you start off by saying that child birth @ the
>age of 14 is "nothing new", then you say that we will repeat
>the same thing and men and women need to change? HUH!?

How hard is this to understand? I've been talking about self-fulfilling prophecy forever because it's a real psycho-social issue that has been plaguing us for centuries. This has everything to do with why some women have babies at a young age, generation after generation...or why in certain conditions it becomes necessary to have a baby at such a young age.

>look, I
>know u want to win this "debate" but you are going to have to
>be clear on whether you agree with black teen unwed mothers or
>not...

I don't come here to win anything. I also don't have to agree or disagree with unwed teen mothers. What I want to do is continue working with young women to help them see their options. I am already doing that. If more people were willing to do the same maybe we could stop pinning the blame and start finding solutions.

Now, through mentoring, my mentee knows she has more options. Maybe you should try mentoring instead of whining about what you can't or don't want to change.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
9433 posts
Fri Apr-08-05 12:01 PM

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87. "RE: You first"
In response to Reply # 82


          

>I love when you come in with the attacks. I'm not scared of
>you. Ha, ha! :-P
>
>>- WTF? first you start off by saying that child birth @ the
>>age of 14 is "nothing new", then you say that we will repeat
>>the same thing and men and women need to change? HUH!?
>
>How hard is this to understand? I've been talking about
>self-fulfilling prophecy forever because it's a real
>psycho-social issue that has been plaguing us for centuries.
>This has everything to do with why some women have babies at a
>young age, generation after generation...or why in certain
>conditions it becomes necessary to have a baby at such a young
>age.

- this is certainly not true for black america. during the early 20th century is was practically unheard of for black women to have babies when they were 15 and 16 years old, and DAMN sure didn't have them out of wedlock. and if you did, you brought SHAME on2 the community. my father's mother had him when she was 16 and wasn't married, they shipped her off another STATE to give birth...i asked my pops why this was and he said it was COMMON back in those times to do it that way (for white and black folks)...that was back when black folks took PRIDE in our families and their image. we didn't have negroes like YOU running around making up excuses for promiscuous behaviors just so somebody could feel better about themselves...back then there WERE no excuses.


>I don't come here to win anything. I also don't have to agree
>or disagree with unwed teen mothers. What I want to do is
>continue working with young women to help them see their
>options. I am already doing that. If more people were
>willing to do the same maybe we could stop pinning the blame
>and start finding solutions.

- 2 questions: 1) if you dont have an opinion on unwed teen mothers, then WTF are you in this post for? 2) surely you won't argue that CELEBRATING black single teen motherhood is a SOLUTION would you?

>Now, through mentoring, my mentee knows she has more options.
>Maybe you should try mentoring instead of whining about what
>you can't or don't want to change.

- uhmmm. seriously. this is the 6th time you mention that u are a mentor and that you have a mentee in this post alone. I think folks here that post on the regular know this by now because you've been reminding us for years...

  

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Nettrice
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102. "RE: You first"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

>- this is certainly not true for black america. during the
>early 20th century is was practically unheard of for black
>women to have babies when they were 15 and 16 years old

Not in Kentucky...and many other places in the U.S. It was quite normal to hear about teen pregnancy or know someone who was having babies at such an early age.

>if you did, you
>brought SHAME on2 the community.

Well, in my hometown, the extended family and community was tight. There was no shame. Grandparents, siblings, and parents often lived in the same house, taking care of all kinds of kids, including neighbors' kids. Growing up, my maternal great aunt's house was full of kids. Some of her children lived on the same block or close by...and some of them had babies before age 18. My paternal grandmother had my father when she was 16 and her mother took care of him and his brother.

>i asked my pops why this was and
>he said it was COMMON back in those times to do it that way
>(for white and black folks)...that was back when black folks
>took PRIDE in our families and their image.

That's b.s. I never sensed any shame in having babies young and out of wedlock. All these babies were welcome and taken care of. It was familial and communal.

>we didn't have
>negroes like YOU running around making up excuses for
>promiscuous behaviors just so somebody could feel better about
>themselves...back then there WERE no excuses.

B.S.

>- uhmmm. seriously. this is the 6th time you mention that u
>are a mentor and that you have a mentee in this post alone. I
>think folks here that post on the regular know this by now
>because you've been reminding us for years...

What's wrong with that? Feeling guilty?

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:42 AM

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80. "Sister, you are SOLIDIFYING MY POINTS:"
In response to Reply # 69
Fri Apr-08-05 11:54 AM by MALACHI

  

          

>Man, we have been birthing babies at an early age since we got
>here on the slave ships. Ain't nothin' new.
Sister, YOU ARE MAKING MY POINT FOR ME. You said it yourself, I could not have put it any better. "SINCE WE GOT HERE ON SLAVE SHIPS". AIN'T NOTHIN' NEW". Think about what YOU just said. Was the institution of slavery designed to edify OR destroy our sense of family or community? I'm sure you know the answer.

>That why I am
>always talking about self-fulfilling prophecy because unless
>women AND men change then our children will continue to repeat
>the same thing.
PRECISELY. VERY well put. We (Black men and women) MUST destoy the mentality of "if she's old enough to bleed, she's old enough to breed".(which was inculcated in us ever "since we got here on slave ships") As soon as young Black girls start to get some butt, hips and breasts, they immediately start getting viewed as sex objects...and even sadder, many of our young sisters think that their sexuality is all they are good for. Truly the SLAVE MENTALITY. And it is DISGUSTING that Black MEN participate in this horrible phenomenon...either that or give tacit support by sitting idly and letting it happen.

>Right now I am mentoring a kid in foster
>care whose mother is pregnant again (she is in her 30s). All
>of her children have either been adopted away or in foster
>care and she's about to have another one. She has repeated
>this pattern since she was 16. For every "14 year old" having
>a baby there are older mothers like this one who are still not
>equipped to raise a child.
I applaud the fact that you are taking the time out of your life to mentor a young person...good to see that there are people out there willing to roll up their sleeves and get to work. But once again, you are proving my point. You said she has been in this destructive pattern SINCE SHE WAS 16. SIXTEEN. A kid. Having kids. Repeatedly. She may be 30 years old, but where is she as far as maturity goes? Sounds like the only "adult" thing she can do is open her legs. I'm gonna go out on a limb and venture to say that if she had her nose in a book instead of her tail in some cat's bed having baby after baby, she would be a much more productive person...don't you agree?

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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Nettrice
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103. "RE: Sister, you are SOLIDIFYING MY POINTS:"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

>You said it yourself,
>I could not have put it any better. "SINCE WE GOT HERE ON
>SLAVE SHIPS". AIN'T NOTHIN' NEW". Think about what YOU just
>said. Was the institution of slavery designed to edify OR
>destroy our sense of family or community?

That's a rhetorical question. Slavery was designed to commodify human beings, not promote Black families.

>PRECISELY. VERY well put. We (Black men and women) MUST
>destoy the mentality of "if she's old enough to bleed, she's
>old enough to breed".(which was inculcated in us ever "since
>we got here on slave ships") As soon as young Black girls
>start to get some butt, hips and breasts, they immediately
>start getting viewed as sex objects...

Yep. When I was 17 my mother's ex-husband tried to cop a feel. I stood up for myself but I was disgusted. Fortunately, my Pops told me the deal before I went off on my own.

>and even sadder, many of
>our young sisters think that their sexuality is all they are
>good for.

Well, this lack of self-esteem and self-worth is actually something that many Black women have to deal with...often alone. It extends from childhood, into our teens and adulthood.

>Truly the SLAVE MENTALITY. And it is DISGUSTING
>that Black MEN participate in this horrible
>phenomenon...either that or give tacit support by sitting idly
>and letting it happen.

Those are the guys who like to point the finger or pin the blame. Some of these guys complain on a Sunday when they know they were doing wrong on Saturday. Men AND women have to stop acting like this is not a problem.

>I applaud the fact that you are taking the time out of your
>life to mentor a young person...good to see that there are
>people out there willing to roll up their sleeves and get to
>work. But once again, you are proving my point. You said she
>has been in this destructive pattern SINCE SHE WAS 16.
>SIXTEEN. A kid. Having kids. Repeatedly. She may be 30
>years old, but where is she as far as maturity goes?

I don't know and I try not to judge her because I am not in her shoes but it makes me feel frustrated, anyway.

>Sounds
>like the only "adult" thing she can do is open her legs. I'm
>gonna go out on a limb and venture to say that if she had her
>nose in a book instead of her tail in some cat's bed having
>baby after baby, she would be a much more productive
>person...don't you agree?

Yeah, well, she likes being on the street more than anything. I used to see her on the corner outside of the place where I worked...every day. Most of the time she was the only woman out there, with a bunch of older men.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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FireBrand
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:59 AM

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85. "No, birthing babies is not wonderful no matter the situation."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

Birthing babies is a wonderful OPPORTUNITY.


******************************
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines
----------------------
http://www.myspace.com/egyptianknight
******************************
Inaug'ral Member of the OkaySports Hall of Fame.

<---- It'll cure what ails ya...

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Fri Apr-08-05 10:07 AM

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64. "Cmon man, she's shouting out the successful single mothers"
In response to Reply # 31


          

You're narrowing the scope to the "Brenda"s of the world when the song is explicitly talking about only *successful single mothers who don't get recognition for doing what two people often struggle to do (providing a stable family environment).

I understand kids can misconstrue the message (since adults can't agree on what it means) but the "badge of honor" line is a shout out to all the single mothers that are making it work. It's not the ideal situation but that's not what the song.

If you want a song that says "Hey, congrats to the successful baby muvas, but you should really try to have a nuclear family", write it yourself.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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FireBrand
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86. "That's what I took from it."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          


******************************
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines
----------------------
http://www.myspace.com/egyptianknight
******************************
Inaug'ral Member of the OkaySports Hall of Fame.

<---- It'll cure what ails ya...

  

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just1
Member since Apr 04th 2005
13 posts
Wed Apr-13-05 08:49 AM

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180. "RE: What is the problem with this song?"
In response to Reply # 22


          

even though i've never heard the song i just read the lyrics and i feel the same way, it sounds like a "rally cry", it may not be something to be proud of, but i think she's sayin to hold your head up high if your a single mother..........

"ah yo i usualy play the back round/u know cleancut/soft spoken/well dressed/dipped out straight chillin when im in the club yo" --Phonte/little bro.

  

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rogue_scholar
Member since Feb 14th 2003
7647 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 06:25 PM

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13. "this post makes me wanna go Cosby in here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i'm sick and tired of being fuckin sick and tired of all this niggerized bullshit pacifying everyone. baby mama's, i wanna souljah, diary of a mad black woman, plain damn ignorance, on and on...

gotDAMN.

but you know what? instead of bitching here, i'ma channel that shit into my studying right now. probably won't get out the frustration, but it'll be more productive.

fuckin' jigaboo ass bullshit. i wanna grab some wild kids and whup ass all up and down the block, cuss out the baby mamas and jack up the baby daddies. all out of love, but dead fuckin serious.


**************
rS

--Any belief worth having must survive doubt-

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
18030 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 07:14 PM

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14. "this nigga is clownin AND has a poor grasp of the english language."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Apr-07-05 07:15 PM by HueyShakur

  

          

how fuckin reactionary!

the chorus does say "all my baby mamas" but if he actually LISTENED to the song, 'tasia defines what a baby mama is.

"I see ya payin' ya bills
I see ya workin' ya job
I see ya goin' to school
And girl I know it's hard"

"I see you get that support check in the mail
Ya open it and your like 'What the Hell'
You say 'This ain't even half of daycare'
Sayin to yourself 'This shit ain't fair'
And all my girls who don't get no help
Who gotta do everything by yourself
Remember: What don't kill you can only make you stronger"

there she SAYS CLEARLY that the song is to women that are on their grind taking care of their children because no one else is, esp not the baby daddy (which is a critique absent from the piece).

to then make a claim that the song is somehow honoring a "mistake" is PURE bullshit. it's a salute to those women (the mothers of two-thirds of Black children in the US, including my mother) that do what that can to rear the kids the best they know how.

he, along with the all-male co-signers in this post, need to get bitch slapped. miss EVERYONE with the "low moral" mumbo jumbo and the BS about the children of baby mamas being more prone to "deviance." the kids of baby mamas are the fucking majority! so they will be the majority when it comes to most statistics, idiots.

lastly @ the author (and his co-signers), hugh madson?

*blasts "baby mama" on the iPod*

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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Nettrice
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Thu Apr-07-05 07:21 PM

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15. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>how fuckin reactionary!

>he, along with the all-male co-signers in this post, need to
>get bitch slapped. miss EVERYONE with the "low moral" mumbo
>jumbo and the BS about the children of baby mamas being more
>prone to "deviance." the kids of baby mamas are the fucking
>majority! so they will be the majority when it comes to most
>statistics, idiots.
>
>lastly @ the author (and his co-signers), hugh madson?

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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rogue_scholar
Member since Feb 14th 2003
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Thu Apr-07-05 07:44 PM

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16. "i'll step up and say it was "reactionary""
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

you make a solid argument for why the song's message isn't as bad as it seems. and yes, you are right then that a big part of the response, mine at least, is just a knee jerk reaction. that, i'll own up to.

i'm STILL disgusted at the amount of bullshit that gets lauded as anthems and held up as a model to young black kids (and adults). so, lyric for lyric, 'baby mama' isn't literally as bad as i and others may have made it out to be, but the passions that flared up behind it represent a host of shit out there that's just ridiculously off base for what young black kids and adults should be aspiring to.

(imagine that...saying "my bad" on okayactivist about one's earlier claim, haha)


**************
rS

--Any belief worth having must survive doubt-

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Thu Apr-07-05 07:48 PM

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17. "it's cool. i'm not saying the song is a classic"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

but i will defend it against unwarranted haterade.

peace.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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rogue_scholar
Member since Feb 14th 2003
7647 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 07:57 PM

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18. "the sad part is:"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

not that there's a popular song on the radio praising "baby mamas," but that there are so many single mothers in tough situations (for whatever reason) that the song speaks to.


**************
rS

--Any belief worth having must survive doubt-

  

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zewari
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Thu Apr-07-05 08:08 PM

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19. "co-sign... LOL @ haters actin' like Fantasia invented baby mommas"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

ya'll being silly. you owe Fantasia an appology.

how in the FUCK is this a negative song?? its not glorifying being a single mother. its not glorifying being on welfare. its telling a story and praising the women for trying to maintain in difficult conditions.

its a song that respects mothers... so GTFOH w/ the hate

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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AmenRA
Member since Apr 03rd 2005
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Thu Apr-07-05 08:29 PM

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21. "fuck all the politics"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

the song is wack yo....

***********************************

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
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Fri Apr-08-05 08:13 AM

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43. "that's what I got from the song.."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


I wasn't sure if folx got what she was trying to say. However, young girls are subject to "hear" the song instead of listening & therefore draw similar conclusions.




“lyrics unravel, faster than bullets travel thru barrels...
ngaz be diggin my style like fossils of pterodactyls...” © Canibus

"limited edition, composition spark friction...
non-fiction, the calm bomb, keep ya arm distance..." © Rebel I

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 08:21 AM

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44. "can we be honest for a second tho?"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

if any young Black girl (13-16 y/o) hears the song and decides that she's gonna be a "baby mama" cuz she wants the song to speak for/to her...she's prolly already doing shit to BE a baby mama.

and, imo, that's not the song's fault.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 09:49 AM

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59. "true"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

this song alone probably isn't going to make someone do something one way or another.

However, the larger issue is aspects of our culture that encourage destructive behavior, of which this song is one example.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 09:54 AM

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61. "encourage destructive behavior??? that's laughable."
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

you know it.

this song don't do that.

and since when is RAISING your child destructive?

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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63. "i feel like a broken record"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

the whole song is not my problem, it's the "badge of honor" part i have a problem with. Other than that, there's not much difference between this song and Tupac's "Dear Mama."

That said, if I had to make a list of songs i'd like to wipe from the face of the Earth, this song would be pretty low on the list.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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NfectionOfTruth
Member since Oct 24th 2002
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Mon Apr-11-05 11:04 AM

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128. "I may be wrong but..."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

>it's the "badge of honor"

Couldn't this part of song mean that people see being a "baby mama" as a badge of honor,instead of literally saying that being a "baby mama" is a badge of honor?

Honestly when I first hear the song I was sick at the idea that she made the song. But after listening to the song I realized that she was giving support to a part of our community that doesn't get much support, and is looked down upon for being in that "situation". This is all what I gather from the lyrics, not so much that she's boasting about being a "baby mama", but relating to a large majority of the black community and offering support.

Peace

"We lost. The game wasn't called unfairly. We are just going to get on a plane and go home and get ready for game 7" - Coach Avery Dallas Mavericks

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Mon Apr-11-05 01:11 PM

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132. "why do they deserve support?"
In response to Reply # 128
Mon Apr-11-05 01:17 PM by suave_bro

          

alot of these women aren't saints that got "duped" by their boyfriends, most of them are promiscuous and got an "oops" baby. practical application: when I was a resident assistance at fort valley state, there was a girl that came to us (student leadership program) who was 18, already had a baby and was PREGNANT again but she decided to have an abortion...okay, but she got pregnant THE NEXT SEMESTER with twins!...another one, my EX scours on the net looking for somebody to get her pregnant. do you think these females deserve praise? should they get support?

the more we "support" them, the more we make other young black girls think the shit is okay; and by OKAY i mean that they can get pregnant and the shit wont be "that" bad...thats bullshit. THIS is MY beef with the song.

  

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NfectionOfTruth
Member since Oct 24th 2002
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Tue Apr-12-05 10:03 AM

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154. "I see your point"
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

my friend... I guess my thought is that even though it's not an acceptable thing to do especially when you don't have the means to provide for the child, there's no need for negative feedback, when we can't change the fact that these women/young girls are in this "situation", but we can't pretend that the problem isn't there. So then what is the solution?

But I do see your point.

Peace

"We lost. The game wasn't called unfairly. We are just going to get on a plane and go home and get ready for game 7" - Coach Avery Dallas Mavericks

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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158. "solutions are simple."
In response to Reply # 154
Tue Apr-12-05 12:14 PM by suave_bro

          

first of all there is NO WAY we can stop folks from A) having sex, B) getting pregnant when they aren't married.

but what we CAN and NEED to do is let these females know that when they have these "oops" babies that they have fucked up BIG time. as i said on here before, when my pops mother had him at 16 she had to move to tennessee (to her uncles farm) from alabama because it was un-lady like and embarrassing to her family for her to be seen walking around so young and pregnant...now, does that mean they HATED her? that she is a hell-spawn demon!? asbolutely not, BUT it sends a clear message that what she did WAS. NOT. ACCEPTABLE.

in order for our community to have a reaction like this in 2005, it would require that a young black girl having a baby out of wedlock by some guy she barely even knows, gets us embarrassed. that that type of behavior is inexcusable and should be punished. not physically, but socially. that might sound crazy but imagine this "phenomenon" taking place in the arab/asian/hispanic community? do u think it would be met with apathy and complacency, or worse, ACCEPTANCE the way it has in our community!? I will bet you my left arm that if we took a step towards THIS direction that the out of wedlock birth rates in our community will decline (notice i didnt say go away completely i have to add this because somebody will "INFER" that from my statement)...

hmmm...i wonder who takes the blame for this "accept-everything-under-the-sun" mentallity in the black community!?

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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172. "Dang...same thing with my grandmother/pops"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          


>but what we CAN and NEED to do is let these females know that
>when they have these "oops" babies that they have fucked up
>BIG time. as i said on here before, when my pops mother had
>him at 16 she had to move to tennessee (to her uncles farm)
>from alabama because it was un-lady like and embarrassing to
>her family for her to be seen walking around so young and
>pregnant...now, does that mean they HATED her? that she is a
>hell-spawn demon!? asbolutely not, BUT it sends a clear
>message that what she did WAS. NOT. ACCEPTABLE.

My grandmother got pregnant with pops when she was 19 years old. At the time she and her family lived in a little share-cropping community outside of Port Gibson, Mississippi. When she got pregnant, my great-grandparents put her out, arranged for her to live with some cousins in Vicksburg, Mississippi, where my pops was born. When my grandmother had my pops, my great-grandmother came up and stayed with her for a month or so. Did they love my grandmother? Without a doubt...and they loved their 1st grandson(my pops)too. But my grandmother was the oldest of their 7 kids, and they couldn't have that bad example for the 6 other kids to see every day...none of which had any out of wedlock kids.

When my grandmama found out my father was messing with girls when he was 15, she beat him with broomstick 'til he quit moving. He ain't got no out of wedlock kids. When my siblings and I were coming up, my parents taught us that if we ever got in trouble, they would be there for us, but if we came home with any kids...PEACE OUT...it was time to hit the door. And none of us have bastard kids.

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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zewari
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20. "DUMBEST PARAGRAPH IN THE ARTICLE:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


And isn’t Fantasia ignoring the wealth of problems single motherhood has brought black America? If I’ve heard one person involved in juvenile justice matters tell me once, they’ve told me a score of times: most of the young black men in “the system” come from homes with a single mother. No father around. In a town like Baltimore, where 75 percent of black boys don’t graduate from high school, you can bet most of those dropouts are the sons of “baby mamas.”

^^^this guy needs to get his ass beat^^^^

that shit is hands down the most idiotic line of reasoning i've seen to date. its almost like he WANTS to say "BABY MAMMAS ARE THE CANCER IN SOCIETY". about the only angle he could've possibly worked is that this song encourages ppl to be baby mommas, or to have more kids or whatever.

but that's still stupid, unrealistic, and far from the truth... what a dumbass. the song's target audience are BABY MAMMAS. the ones i know have a HARD life. shit, i'm glad they can listen to something in mainstream radio that makes them feel just a little better

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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23. "The only part of the song I have a problem with"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is where she calls it a "badge of honor."

Other than that, how his this song any different from Tupac's "Dear Mama"?

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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zewari
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24. "what's wrong with motherhood being a badge of honor??"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          


«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Thu Apr-07-05 09:27 PM

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25. "RE: what's wrong with motherhood being a badge of honor??"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

she's saying *single* motherhood is a badge of honor. As the article accurately states, single motherhood is the number one problem facing the Black community.
------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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zewari
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Thu Apr-07-05 09:30 PM

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26. "the word "single" is not mentioned ONCE in the song"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


the intended audience isn't you or any married couple. the intended audience of her song are single mothers. that's the reality of the situation, and she's giving them a song to feel good about.

there's nothing wrong with that. its not like someone will here the song and be like "wow.. this single mother thing sounds great!! i'ma try it out for a year"

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Thu Apr-07-05 09:39 PM

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27. "RE: the word "single" is not mentioned ONCE in the song"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

she talking about "baby mommas" and says it's a "badge of honor." We all know baby momma = unwed mother. I think it's rediculous to call such a situation, in and of itself, a badge of honor.

>the intended audience isn't you or any married couple. the
>intended audience of her song are single mothers. that's the
>reality of the situation, and she's giving them a song to feel
>good about.

I agree with you here. To make the best of a bad situation is honorable, and a there are a lot of our women living this way. I only disagree with that one part of the song.

>there's nothing wrong with that. its not like someone will
>here the song and be like "wow.. this single mother thing
>sounds great!! i'ma try it out for a year"

I disagree. Some young girls already want babies because thier friends have one, you see them on the talk shows all the time.

The problem with this song is not that it's encourging women, that part is fine. It's that the song acts like the situation is ok, like there's nothing wrong with it.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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zewari
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28. "do you honestly think talk shows reflect reality??"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          


i mean, anyone who knows a single mother knows how hard it is to lead that life. even in the song, she mentions the bullshit they have to juggle just to keep things afloat.

i still don't see how you think she's trivializing the difficulties of single motherhood or glamourizing anything.

i actually think the author of the article above is ashamed of the situation many black women and young girls are facing, and hates the fact that this issue of broken families is being "put out" in front of everyone. i'm even tempted to say this guy has a degree of self-hate veiled by his patronizing tone.

if fantasia was a white, single mother making this song... then obviously it would be offensive and wrong. Fantasia is a single mother herself, and she has every right to sing this song with no shame. i think its a shame that black men are ashamed of it, to be honest.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 08:28 AM

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45. "RE: do you honestly think talk shows reflect reality??"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>i mean, anyone who knows a single mother knows how hard it is
>to lead that life. even in the song, she mentions the bullshit
>they have to juggle just to keep things afloat.

Again, i don't disagree with that aspect of the song. I'm only mad that she called it a "badge of honor."

> i think its a shame that black men are
>ashamed of it, to be honest.

We should be ashamed that there are so many Black single mothers.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 10:18 AM

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66. "You either can't HEAR, or can't READ..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

PLAIN AS DAY:

"And I think it should be a holiday
for SINGLE mothers trying to make a way"...

Now what were you saying again?

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 10:23 AM

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67. "dude, you're reaching. just log off, please."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

there's nothing wrong with that line.

translation: single moms that be own their shit need some appreciation.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 12:16 PM

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89. "How am I reaching? He said the word 'single'"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

wasn't in the song...I showed and proved that it was.

Raise up.

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Fri Apr-08-05 09:58 AM

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62. "She's saying successfull single motherhood requires recognition"
In response to Reply # 25


          

Her song is explicitly recognizing the baby mothers that are successful (providing stable family structure), not the ones the reactionary article is talking about.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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Bdiddy04
Member since Oct 28th 2004
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Thu Apr-07-05 09:53 PM

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29. "RE: Fantasia's 'Baby Mama' Song Sends Bad Message?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My take on the whole song. The only people who should be ashamed of this song are men that left women like Fantasia to be single mothers. If men stepped up to the plate, there would be no need for the song. Should the women have pride? I think so, It's hard for two parent households to raise children. To do it by yourself shows strength that not many people have.

_______________________________________
Follow me @bstokessmooth

  

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zewari
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30. "^^^the truth^^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          


«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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AmenRA
Member since Apr 03rd 2005
313 posts
Thu Apr-07-05 11:14 PM

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32. "That's very true"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

but We all know about the connotation of the word "baby mama"....That's the problem that most cats are having....*me thinks*

***********************************

  

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Bdiddy04
Member since Oct 28th 2004
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Thu Apr-07-05 11:18 PM

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33. "RE: That's very true"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

I agree there. If she would have used single mothers I think people would have no problem with it. But she also has to sell records and baby mama catches your attention much more than single mother.

_______________________________________
Follow me @bstokessmooth

  

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blazing_sun
Member since Oct 19th 2004
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Thu Apr-07-05 11:39 PM

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36. "This post should've ended w/ this"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

It killed me when he said that women who "made a mistake" shouldn't be applauded. A cause for honor is dealing w/ your mistakes. IMO, the niggas that walk out on these women are the cancer of the black community.

<-----Me in GD.

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
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Thu Apr-07-05 11:59 PM

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39. "But look on the other side how do these kids come about"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

many times one night stands spring fling just in it for sex and then a child pops up. I am not saying it is cool at all for men to step away from a women and their child but is it not lazy and trifling for women who abort children out of these same relationships based on nothing but falsehood and sex.

You have to look at both sides women especially black women chose to drop their motherly duties all the time it is called abortions.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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Bdiddy04
Member since Oct 28th 2004
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Fri Apr-08-05 12:05 AM

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40. "RE: But look on the other side how do these kids come about"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

That has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. Go look in the archives to see alll the posts about abortion.

_______________________________________
Follow me @bstokessmooth

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 12:12 AM

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41. "Oh it has everything to do with it"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

I know plenty of chicks who kept children to hold on to a man that didn't want them which is the wrong reason to have children. It is great to idealize but in real life situations many people don't value children especially here in America. Now on the other hand I know some dudes that has long established relationships with women and just bounced on them leaving child support and a visit here and there.

The post wasn't about abortion just trifling ass people period yes you have dead beat daddies but you got plenty dead beat mothers who have children for the most self and spiteful reasons.

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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zewari
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Fri Apr-08-05 01:35 AM

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42. "none of which has anything to do with the song"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          


«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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Taharka
Member since Apr 18th 2003
7769 posts
Fri Apr-08-05 09:17 AM

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51. "I like the Ricky Smiley version better"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

!!!!!!

<--- The lovely Ms Hill when she wasn't thrown off.

LOOK WHOS RAPPIN NOW
http://www.myspace.com/quil215

  

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Nettrice
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Fri Apr-08-05 08:31 AM

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46. "Just in it for sex?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Therein lies the problem: casual sex and casual attitude from both women and men about the consequences of sex without protection. It's tiresome hearing from so many guys about their ideas but a baby momma song is nothing compared to the real issue. Let's have a discussion about everyone's duties, not just motherly one. In the meantime, I am glad there is a song praising the efforts of single mothers. There are so many children in foster care that it's ridiculous.

In the Metro (yesterday) there was an article about how one in four of foster children suffer from mental illness as adults. Why is that? Let's talk about that, too.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Fri Apr-08-05 10:43 AM

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72. "u are going 2 have to start dealing in reality @ some point"
In response to Reply # 46
Fri Apr-08-05 10:54 AM by suave_bro

          

most women in our communities are getting pregnant from booty calls. they are getting pregnant at black college reunions, black bike week, frat parties, during orgies, one night stands after the club or the concert, guys they met off of myspace.com or blackplanet.com etc, I know it sounds ugly but its the truth.

this myth that all of our women are walking around glowing from innocence and purity with halo's beaming over their heads, and was DECIEVED by their BOYFRIENDS who got them pregnant and RAN, needs to stop. its becoming more common now for our females to not even have steady BOYFRIENDS and become pregnant.

so yes, alot of our women ARE indeed in it just for the SEX as much as the men are...what kills me is that any other time a woman being sexually independent and screaming "why cant i do it like men do" she is considered to be displaying a form of woman empowerment, but when the shit hits the fan the whole tune changes, now all of a sudden the MEN are the ones who are overly promiscuous and deserve ridicule and she is the victim...

  

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Nettrice
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76. "RE: u are going 2 have to start dealing in reality @ some point"
In response to Reply # 72
Fri Apr-08-05 11:11 AM by Nettrice

  

          

>most women in our communities are getting pregnant from booty
>calls.

You must be hanging with a whole different crowd...all those women you know must be getting pregnant all day and every day! I went to college with some serious sistahs. We networked with other colleges, including Ivy League (Columbia) and City College (NYC). We had lots of parties but only two of my friends got pregnant and one was Korean!

>this myth that all of our women are walking around glowing
>from innocence and purity with halo's beaming over their
>heads, and was DECIEVED by their BOYFRIENDS who got them
>pregnant and RAN, needs to stop.

But that isn't my point. It takes a woman AND a man to make a baby.

>so yes, alot of our women ARE indeed in it just for the SEX as
>much as the men are...what kills me is that any other time a
>woman being sexually independent and screaming "why cant i do
>it like men do" she is considered to be displaying a form of
>woman empowerment

Women can be on the sexual conquest tip and still not get pregnant. These women are not trying to get pregnant. I find that the women on the corner are more likely to be "deceived" or jump into sex among other things as something to do...with no regard for the consequences. I was telling my mentee that my priorities were way different when I was her age. She just rolled her eyes at me...but she learned the hard way and now she's in college (no baby).

>but when the shit hits the fan the whole
>tune changes, now all of a sudden the MEN are the ones who are
>overly promiscuous and deserve ridicule and she is the
>victim...

Men AND women are both too casual with sex and some are still healing from something that happened during their formative years. That's why I always say, "Therapy! Hello!" Don't put all that jaded attitude and bitterness on the children.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:47 AM

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81. "RE: u are going 2 have to start dealing in reality @ some point"
In response to Reply # 76


          

>You must be hanging with a whole different crowd...all those
>women you know must be getting pregnant all day and every day!
> I went to college with some serious sistahs. We
>networked with other colleges, including Ivy League (Columbia)
>and City College (NYC). We had lots of parties but only two
>of my friends got pregnant and one was Korean!

- notice i said in our communities. I am in college too. there are some "serious sistas" up here no doubt, but unlike you, I dont choose to pretend that the sistas who are up in the clubs all the time with the tongue rings and screwing all the greek brothas and athletes don't exist...and yes, they are getting pregnant and having to leave college early...


>>this myth that all of our women are walking around glowing
>>from innocence and purity with halo's beaming over their
>>heads, and was DECIEVED by their BOYFRIENDS who got them
>>pregnant and RAN, needs to stop.
>
>But that isn't my point. It takes a woman AND a man to make a
>baby.

- if that is your point you would have said that by now, your point is that the women are innocent and deserve to be commended.

>>so yes, alot of our women ARE indeed in it just for the SEX
>as
>>much as the men are...what kills me is that any other time a
>>woman being sexually independent and screaming "why cant i
>do
>>it like men do" she is considered to be displaying a form of
>>woman empowerment
>
>Women can be on the sexual conquest tip and still not get
>pregnant. These women are not trying to get pregnant. I find
>that the women on the corner are more likely to be "deceived"
>or jump into sex among other things as something to do...with
>no regard for the consequences.

- your arguments jump all over the place when you speak. how can a female be "decieved" but at the same time jump into sex as "something to do" and have no regard for the consequences!? that statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


>I was telling my mentee that
>my priorities were way different when I was her age. She just
>rolled her eyes at me...but she learned the hard way and now
>she's in college (no baby).

- whoa wait a minute...you have a mentee?! you mentor YOUTH!? an--and your mentee is in COLLEGE NOW!?!? wow. i have NEVER heard you say THAT before on here...kudos!

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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34. "The comments in the post are KILLING ME!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

How can you cats sit up here and make all these excuses for the song? We sit up here every day talking about problems that need to be fixed in the community, but when it comes to turning our backs on a song that is celebrating "baby's mamas", we got more excuses than a cat going to jail. The problem is that illegitimacy is so commonplace, that we as a people don't even think of it as abnormal anymore...sad. We see it every day, and it doesn't bother us anymore. ACCESSability gives birth to ACCEPTability.

For once, I wish Suave_Bro were here...

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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Bdiddy04
Member since Oct 28th 2004
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Thu Apr-07-05 11:39 PM

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35. "OK"
In response to Reply # 34
Thu Apr-07-05 11:40 PM by Bdiddy04

  

          

All I'm saying is that I understand the premise of her song and that she went about it the wrong way. She was simply trying to big up single mothers. What's wrong with that? Not everyone is going be perfect, get married and have a white picket fence. What's the big deal with being married. A lot of kids that are fucked up come from two parent homes. It's just not single parent homes. I came from a single parent household and I'm in college. More than half the people I know in college came from single parent households. i don't see u addressing why these mothers are single? They didn't get pregnant by themselves. Where are the fathers? They don't have to marry the women, but they can still be around.

_______________________________________
Follow me @bstokessmooth

  

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zewari
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37. "you're the one making excuses to hate..."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

... a perfectly good song

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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Nettrice
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48. "Nope"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-08-05 08:43 AM by Nettrice

  

          

I was just reading Sister 2 Sister articles that featured Outkast. What intrigued me was the two interviews with Andre Benjamin's parents. It was Benjamin's mother (baby momma) versus his father. His mother claimed she was left on her own with her child at a young age (She's Alive) and had to force his father to support Andre. His father said he did everything he could to support Andre. It was clear that both of them were proud of their son's accomplishments but in so much pain. I think there's truth in both stories but what remains to be seen is how this has affected Andre Benjamin who says he may never get married.

Their stories sound similar to my own parents except for the fact that they were married when I was born. I used to ask my mother why she did it (got with my Pops) and realized that it was pointless looking back. We needed to heal. I needed to use their relationship as an example of what not to do. The next generation needs to learn how to think different.

In the meantime, people should support and praise the efforts of single Black parents...both mothers and fathers who step up and take full responsibility for the upbringing of their children.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 08:58 AM

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49. "RE: Nope"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

Single mothers should be commended, no doubt.

What about the part of the song where she calls being a single mother a "badge of honor"? Do you have any problem with that part of the song?

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 09:23 AM

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52. "*sigh*"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

"It's about time we had our own song
Don't know what took so long
Cause nowadays it's like a badge of honor
To be a baby mama"

she's NOT saying "being a single mother (baby mama) a 'badge of honor'." she uses LIKE, as a preposition, meaning "having the characteristics of or similar to."

having the characteristics of/similar to what? a status higher than that of other things that songs have written about.

those lines MERELY reflects her "dismay" that a song didn't already exist that gave baby mamas their props EVEN THOUGH most Black mamas ARE baby mamas. that's it.

could she have done it more clearly? sure. but for anyone to suggest that she meant being a baby mama is somehow "honorable," they are smoking that good crack. that's a willful misinterpretation.

what she does say is honorable is dealing with that hand (raising a child on your own) and doing a good job.

it's NOT that hard folks.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 09:28 AM

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53. "RE: *sigh*"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          


>those lines MERELY reflects her "dismay" that a song didn't
>already exist that gave baby mamas their props EVEN THOUGH
>most Black mamas ARE baby mamas. that's it.

Reflecting dismay is part of it, but that doesn't discount the fact that she called it a "badge of honor."

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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HueyShakur
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Fri Apr-08-05 09:31 AM

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55. ""LIKE a badge of a honor" not "was" or "is""
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

jesu christe.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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57. "RE: "LIKE a badge of a honor" not "was" or "is""
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

It's the same thing though. She's saying being a baby's momma is a positive thing.

Moreover, when kids hear this song, they're not going to make the distiction you made, they're going to hear it just as i stated it: Being a baby's momma is a badge honor.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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HueyShakur
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Fri Apr-08-05 09:44 AM

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58. "directs you to post 44"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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Bdiddy04
Member since Oct 28th 2004
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Fri Apr-08-05 09:30 AM

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54. "Cosign"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Everybody up in arms, but she said LIKE. She didn't say it as a matter of fact. People on this don't read worth shit.

_______________________________________
Follow me @bstokessmooth

  

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Cocobrotha2
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65. "Yeah, some people were sick on similes and metaphors day"
In response to Reply # 54


          

It's like an ex I had that couldn't do fractions bc she was sick for the quarter when they introduced it in math class. She'll look at you crazy if you talk about "1/4 of this" "2/5 of that".

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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90. "Most ridiculous, semantical argument in the"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

history of Okay Activist.

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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Nettrice
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71. "Black Girl Pain"
In response to Reply # 49
Fri Apr-08-05 10:36 AM by Nettrice

  

          

>What about the part of the song where she calls being a single
>mother a "badge of honor"? Do you have any problem with that
>part of the song?

I don't have a problem with any Black woman expressing her p.o.v. Sometimes, rather than criticize, we have to support and hold our heads up. We're still healing and dealing with a lot of b.s. I don't care whether or not someone is unwwed with child or wed without.

I didn't hear no complaints about Talib Kweli's "Black Girl Pain":

My mama said life would be this hard
Growin up days as a black girl scarred
In every way still we've come so far
They just know the name they don't know the pain
So please hold your heads up high
Don't be ashamed of yourself know I
Will carry it forth til the day I die
They just know the name they don't know the pain black girl

This is what I take as the "badge of honor".

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Fri Apr-08-05 10:44 AM

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73. "Kweli had both of his parents though"
In response to Reply # 71


          

  

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Nettrice
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74. "So what?"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

So did I. What about the song?

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:00 AM

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75. "RE: Black Girl Pain"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          


>I didn't hear no complaints about Talib Kweli's "Black Girl
>Pain":
>
>My mama said life would be this hard
>Growin up days as a black girl scarred
>In every way still we've come so far
>They just know the name they don't know the pain
>So please hold your heads up high
>Don't be ashamed of yourself know I
>Will carry it forth til the day I die
>They just know the name they don't know the pain black girl
>
>This is what I take as the "badge of honor".

To make the best of a bad situation is honerable. But this song doesn't even call it a bad situation, this song sees no problem with single motherhood, and even calls it a "badge of honor."

Maybe we should start with the basics: Do you think single motherhood is a good thing or a bad thing?

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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Nettrice
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78. "RE: Black Girl Pain"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

>Maybe we should start with the basics: Do you think single
>motherhood is a good thing or a bad thing?

Depends. I take everything on a case by case basis. Outkast member Andre Benjamin's mother seems like she is enjoying life now but in her Sister 2 Sister interview she talked about all her pain raising her son (single). I had both parents around but my mother kicked my Pops out when I was very young because she thought he would be a bad influence. She did what she had to do but she also had a college degree and a job. She was cool letting us hang with him but he did some crazy shit. I mean really crazy. I could see why she kicked him out, divorced him but my question to her was why get with the guy in the first place?

Sometimes you think something is supposed to happen like in the fairy tales but then it goes waaay south. By that time, you got a baby or babies and life keeps happening. I know a sistah who has spent her entire son's life blaming the father. As a result, the boy is having some serious problems. I also know some single mothers who are doing a good job raising their kids.

People love to point fingers but how about dealing with the problem at the source (not the mother). The individual man or woman who feels a need to engage in unprotected sex.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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79. "ok, there's our disagreement"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

I happen to think that single motherhood is the #1 problem facing the Black community. Sure there are some cases where the relationship is so bad that its better off if they're divorced, but: 1. That's the excpetion, not the rule; and 2. that's not really what we're talking about here, were talking about the cases where the man is nowhere to be found, where's he's not in the child's life at all.

And i'm not blaming Women, i'll be the first to say that Black men are the main problem. But to celebrate a bad situation is disgusting, IMO.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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Nettrice
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83. "RE: ok, there's our disagreement"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

>1. That's the excpetion, not the rule

Are you sure about that?

>were talking
>about the cases where the man is nowhere to be found, where's
>he's not in the child's life at all.

Okay, so what's the solution? Harping about some Black single mother's art or doing something more productive?

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 11:57 AM

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84. "RE: ok, there's our disagreement"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

>Okay, so what's the solution? Harping about some Black single
>mother's art or doing something more productive?

Our culture has to be changed. As it stands, the dominant young Black culture rewards ignorance and destructive behavior, and decries intelligence and success.

This song is far from the frontlines of that battle, but it is a clear example of our culture encouraging destritive behavior. (Again, i'm not talking about the song in general, I only disagree with the "badge of honor" part).

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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gmltheone
Member since Jun 11th 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 09:05 AM

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50. "Best part of the article..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is when he calls destiny child "pulchritudinous but apparently daft lasses".

That's a violation of some sort. Just not sure what though. LOL




"I don't wanna go to no tie dye country club, ya freak bitch!" - Franklin

  

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Cocobrotha2
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56. "Good intentions, bad songwriting"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think that about sums it up.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Fri Apr-08-05 10:27 AM

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68. "very, very good article."
In response to Reply # 0


          

this song is nowhere near as bad as "wait" by yin yang twinz and will be nowhere near as popular...It took me a while but i had to come to the realization that this is just how black folks are. I had to stop trying to say "we can do better" when the truth of the matter is we probably cant, this is probably just as good as it gets and i (you) need to get over it...however if you think about the processs of today's black sexual culture and these 2 songs/artists, there isn't really that much difference:

first ying yang: sex and wild amounts of it with random females that just look good and can twurk and have nice bodies, look at the black woman like a sexual object, "stick my dick in, take your thumb out" - this is just the mentallity of most young black males towards black females. take away yin yang and this song, this mentallity is still here.

Phantasia baby momma: now after she (the female) has been looked at like a sexual object nothing more nothing less, she has a baby or two by somebody or some guys who probably doesn't even know who she is outside of the fact that she is thick, can twurk, got some bomb ass head etc.,...now what does she do? does she feel ashamed? is she embarrassed? is she frightened? NO! she is STRONG! this is her "badge of honor". the MAN (or little boy) was weak and pathetic for knocking her up and not taking care of HIS responsibility, but she is STRONG for handling hers, this is how our women JUSTIFY their behaviors and actions. again, take away this SONG, and the mentallity is still there. the behaviors are still there. and our FUTURE are the ones who suffer from BOTH of these ass backwards mentallities...


  

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rdiggity
Member since Aug 23rd 2002
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Thu Apr-14-05 12:55 PM

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189. "RE: very, very good article."
In response to Reply # 68


          

I have mixed emotions about the article, but I agree with your synopsis of the situation.

  

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3X
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Fri Apr-08-05 12:02 PM

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88. "3X's Thoughts"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-08-05 12:15 PM by 3X

  

          

I understand what message this song is trying to deliver but it will receive criticism from poor judgment of using the term BABY MAMA. I seriously doubt any socially conscious man on this message board with the exception of HUEYSHAKUR (who LITERALLY doesn't like women) would present their girlfriend or wife as their BABY MAMA. I am sure most women on this message board would not be happy being referred to as a BABY MAMA in any public setting. With that said this song is COONish just like Bill "GETTIN' FREAKY WIT IT BEHIND MY WIFE'S BACK" Cosby's movie FAT ALBERT. Fantasia is nothing more than a puppet string who is getting paid from her vocals not her mind.

KEEPIN' REAL...WHAT SHOULD WE EXPECT FROM NEGRO ENTERTAINERS LIKE BILL "GETTIN' FREAKY WIT IT BEHIND MY WIFE'S BACK" COSBY and FANTASIA "MISS HIGH SCHOOL DROPOUT?"

-------
It's incredible how the people that know the least are the first to offer advice.

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 12:22 PM

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91. "Pretty good synopsis."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Fri Apr-08-05 12:25 PM

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92. "really?"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

HUEYSHAKUR (who
>LITERALLY doesn't like women)

i didn't know that.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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FireBrand
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93. "You had me 'til coonery. I see what you are saying."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

And I agree that there is a message being sent that could be taken as negative, but I don't get that from the lyrics.

The lyrics aren't saying anything to me that I feel is improper. The name of the song is wrong tho. No getting around that.
******************************
www.okayplayer.com/guidelines
----------------------
http://www.myspace.com/egyptianknight
******************************
Inaug'ral Member of the OkaySports Hall of Fame.

<---- It'll cure what ails ya...

  

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3X
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94. "POOR CHOICE OF WORDS"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

The term BABY MAMA is COONish/GHETTO. With that said most people with any sense would not refer to a woman as such in public. It is just a poor choice of words.

I seriously doubt any non-black american idol winner would have a ghetto like title of a song as their single.

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It's incredible how the people that know the least are the first to offer advice.

  

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zewari
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99. "so do rappers catch heat for sayin nigga to no end?"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

.

  

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3X
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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101. "they don't but they should"
In response to Reply # 99
Fri Apr-08-05 04:49 PM by 3X

  

          

honestly i don't use the term nigger/nigga. i prefer uncle tom or negro

no matter how you attempt to flip the convo nobody can make a case saying it is OK to call a woman a BABY MAMA. i don't any woman with any sense who has no issues being called a BABY MAMA.

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It's incredible how the people that know the least are the first to offer advice.

  

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zewari
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106. "don't u think its dishonest for someone to be..."
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

... cool w/ every rapper that says nigga but get all serious w/ fantasia? that shit's a horrible double standard that pretty much 90% of the folks dissin' fantasia are guilty of

  

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3X
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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118. "the author of the article has written pieces criticizing rappers also"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

from past writings i've noticed few if any double standards

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zewari
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120. "i had posters beefin' with the song in mind"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

not the author himself, although his beef with it is still mad trife IMO.

folks defending P Diddy going on to shit over Fantasia... ya'll know who u are.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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ElaghiSincere33
Member since Jan 24th 2005
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Fri Apr-08-05 02:45 PM

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95. "Single motherhood #1 problem?+black male irrisponsibility"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          


Is it all the womans fault? She should be ashamed of herself? I agree that the family breakdown is a big issue in the community, but everytime we discuss it, it seems as if the man is expected to leave, and its the womans fault because she should of just known better

  

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sunngodd
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97. "RE: Single motherhood #1 problem?+black male irrisponsibility"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

It's both of their fault, and the woman ends up bearing the burden.

No man should ever abandon his child, there is no excuse for doing so. Any man that does so, I have no respect for.

Many times, the woman bears some responsibility as well. Neither her, nor the man, should be having sex out of wedlock, especially unprotected sex.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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Nettrice
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104. "RE: Single motherhood #1 problem?+black male irrisponsibility"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

>Neither her, nor the man, should be having sex out of wedlock,
>especially unprotected sex.

Well, I, for one, don't plan to ever get married. So where does this leave women like me?

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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sunngodd
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105. "RE: Single motherhood #1 problem?+black male irrisponsibility"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

>Well, I, for one, don't plan to ever get married. So where
>does this leave women like me?

Well, if you plan to have children, I think you're doing them a disservice by not raising them in a married household.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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Nettrice
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107. "B.S."
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

>Well, if you plan to have children, I think you're doing them
>a disservice by not raising them in a married household.

Children benefit most from loving, financially stable (and safe) households where they are well educated and entertained in healthy ways. Marriage does not prevent that, nor does it prevent a man and woman from participating equally in a partnership. I'd rather have that than a dysfunctional marriage any day..most of the marriages I've known about were dysfunctional...some more than others and the children suffered. I am too independent spirited to be a wife but I like the idea of a partnership. But who know? I might change my mind...but I doubt it.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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sunngodd
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110. "RE: B.S."
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

>Children benefit most from loving, financially stable (and
>safe) households where they are well educated and entertained
>in healthy ways.

I agree, i would say children benefit from: 1. Positive male and female role models; and 2. structure and stability.

Marriage does not prevent that, nor does it
>prevent a man and woman from participating equally in a
>partnership.

I agree, but the *best* way to provide it is through marriage. Children benefit more from having two parents in the home rather than one. Similarly it is better for the child's parents to be married, because marriages, on the whole, are more stable than relationships. When you're married, there's more of a commitment to stay together and work through problems, when you're in a "relationship," that same commitment isn't there.

I'd rather have that than a dysfunctional
>marriage any day..most of the marriages I've known about were
>dysfunctional...some more than others and the children
>suffered.

I agree there are cases where the children are better off with the parents living apart, and there are even cases where it is best that the children have no contact with one of the parents. But this should never be the first option.

I am too independent spirited to be a wife but I
>like the idea of a partnership. But who know? I might change
>my mind...but I doubt it.

"It's too many Black women that can say that they're mothers, but can't say that they're wives" - Common

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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Bdiddy04
Member since Oct 28th 2004
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Sat Apr-09-05 11:33 AM

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111. "RE: B.S."
In response to Reply # 110
Sat Apr-09-05 11:33 AM by Bdiddy04

  

          

>
>"It's too many Black women that can say that they're mothers,
>but can't say that they're wives" - Common
Wow, quoting a man who has a child out of wedlock to prove your point.

_______________________________________
Follow me @bstokessmooth

  

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sunngodd
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112. "RE: B.S."
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

I'm not "using him to prove my point." First of all, that quote address a side issue, the main issue was the best environment for children. Second, the personal situation of the person making a quote has nothing to do with the truth of the words.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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Bdiddy04
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Sat Apr-09-05 12:12 PM

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113. "RE: B.S."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

You used it to to counter her point. It's propbably a good quote, but did nothing to go against what she said.

_______________________________________
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sunngodd
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114. "RE: B.S."
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

>You used it to to counter her point.

I used it to encourage her to reconsider her stance that she probably wouldn't marry, nothing more.

It's propbably a good
>quote, but did nothing to go against what she said.

Ok, first you have a problem with the quote because Com has a baby out of wedlock. Now you have a problem with it because it didn't counter her argument effectivley? Maybe you should have just stayed out of it, since i wasn't talking to you in the first place.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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Nettrice
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116. "RE: B.S."
In response to Reply # 110
Sat Apr-09-05 12:55 PM by Nettrice

  

          

>I agree, i would say children benefit from: 1. Positive male
>and female role models; and 2. structure and stability.

Yep and not necessarily from marriage.

>Marriage does not prevent that, nor does it
>>prevent a man and woman from participating equally in a
>>partnership.
>
>I agree, but the *best* way to provide it is through marriage.

I disagree. Divorce, separation, adultery, etc. has a very negative effect on the stabilty of a child's environment.

> Children benefit more from having two parents in the home
>rather than one.

I agree with most of this but, in reality, just having positive male and female role models goes a long way.

>Similarly it is better for the child's
>parents to be married, because marriages, on the whole, are
>more stable than relationships.

Nah, I don't go for that. My mother has been married twice and is working on a third. None of these marriages were what I would call stable.

>I agree there are cases where the children are better off with
>the parents living apart, and there are even cases where it is
>best that the children have no contact with one of the
>parents. But this should never be the first option.

Sometimes it is the only option.

>I am too independent spirited to be a wife but I
>>like the idea of a partnership. But who know? I might
>change
>>my mind...but I doubt it.
>
>"It's too many Black women that can say that they're mothers,
>but can't say that they're wives" - Common

I used to operate on my dolls because I thought I wanted to be a doctor but, in retrospect, I realize it went deeper than that. My mother got tired of me destroying my dolls so she stopped buying them and I got chemistry sets and other things. I was clearly rejecting something. I was not a tomboy but definately not one that went along with the traditional roles for girls and boys or men and women. Marriage may work great for some but I know it's not something I want to do or look forward to. I knew this since I was a teenager.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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sunngodd
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117. "i don't want to get too personal, but"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

it sounds like seeing you mother's negative experiences with marriage has soured you on the idea.

Things happen in life, and things happen in relationships, but all other things being equal, and married mother and father in the house with the child is the best environment. Sure, healthy, happy, successful children can be raised in all kinds of situations, but that doesn't mean those are the best situations. And our community is a prime example of what happens to a people when the nuculear family breaks down on a large scale. Most of the problems in our community can be traced back to the phenomenon of too many "baby mamas."

Don't let what happened to your mother completely cloud your judgment. Marriage and family are a beautiful thing. And it's the foundation of a strong community.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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Nettrice
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119. "RE: i don't want to get too personal, but"
In response to Reply # 117
Sat Apr-09-05 05:10 PM by Nettrice

  

          

>it sounds like seeing you mother's negative experiences with
>marriage has soured you on the idea.

My mother was married and divorced before I was born. I was quite young when she divorced a second time, so I don't recall anything negative. She believed in marriage. If anything, she encouraged us to be independent, not to be like her. She let me make my own choices based on what made me happy.

>Things happen in life, and things happen in relationships, but
>all other things being equal, and married mother and father in
>the house with the child is the best environment. Sure,
>healthy, happy, successful children can be raised in all kinds
>of situations, but that doesn't mean those are the best
>situations.

Huh?

>And our community is a prime example of what
>happens to a people when the nuculear family breaks down on a
>large scale. Most of the problems in our community can be
>traced back to the phenomenon of too many "baby mamas."

Come on. We never had nuclear families. This isn't "Leave It to Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" and that's a good thing.

>Don't let what happened to your mother completely cloud your
>judgment. Marriage and family are a beautiful thing. And
>it's the foundation of a strong community.

I love the idea of healthy, strong families and communities. Marriage is another story. My mother loves the idea of marriage and that's cool for her...not me.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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121. "you really, really need to read this book"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          


>Come on. We never had nuclear families. This isn't "Leave It
>to Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" and that's a good thing.

It's called "The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom" by Herbert Gutman.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0394724518/104-7289688-1027917?v=glance

This book shows that slavery did not destroy the black family as is the common perception. We maintained a strong commitment to the nuclear family throughout slavery and in the antebellum period.

Heres a review of the book, you can Google the title and find more: http://home.arcor.de/civici01a/teaching/osi/davis.htm

Granted, the Black family has never been "Leave it to Beaver," but the breakdown of the family to the degree that we see today is not a cultural trait that you can trace back to slavery, in fact it's a far more recent phenomenon. Don't take my word for it though, get this book.

The lack of a nuclear family is a "good thing"? C'mon now, you have to know better than that.
1. Poverty. 60% of Black children live in poverty, mostly because they live in a house with one income. In fact, two-income black households make almost as much as two-income white households.
2. Lack of Dicipline. This is going to offend the hell out of you liberal sensibilities, but the household is generally more discipline when there's a father in the home. The mother can't lay down the law like the father can.
3. Supervision. The mother is working long hours to take care of the family, and nobody's watching the kids.
4. Inability to get involved in the child's education. Same as 3.
5. Lack of a positive male role model. Obvious bad consequences for boys and girls.
6. Kids end up repeating what the experience growing up. The father bounces, the mother doesn't think she needs him. Thus, the Black family goes on a downward spiral.

I really could go on and on. Whatever you personal choices may be, do you seriously beleive that we can have a stong community without having stong families?

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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Nettrice
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122. "RE: you really, really need to read this book"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

>This book shows that slavery did not destroy the black family
>as is the common perception. We maintained a strong
>commitment to the nuclear family throughout slavery and in the
>antebellum period.

I'll check it out.

However, I am basing my p.o.v. on experience both from my own family and others. I have always observed and taken a note of how people deal with adversity. I am not saying the Black family has been destroyed. If anything, many Black families are quite resilient. They do not break down like others who attempt to assimilate but they aren't "nuclear", either. I am a Black woman and those "traditional" notions just don't cut it. I don't live in some "nuclear" fantasy because I have often had to face a lack of support for what keeps me going (happy) everyday. Those that came before me were often alcoholics, mentally ill, etc. because it was hard dealing with "Black girl pain". I have not succumbed to any of that and that's saying something.

>1. Poverty. 60% of Black children live in poverty, mostly
>because they live in a house with one income. In fact,
>two-income black households make almost as much as two-income
>white households.

My single mother came from a childhood in poverty. She came out of it and made sure we did not experience poverty as children. When I was growing up, folks in my hometown said she was an exception but I refused to believe it.

>2. Lack of Dicipline. This is going to offend the hell out of
>you liberal sensibilities, but the household is generally more
>discipline when there's a father in the home. The mother
>can't lay down the law like the father can.

I am the only daughter my father has never spanked. My sister and I did well under my mother's care but my younger half-sisters dropped out of high school and had babies before age 18. They were under my father's care for most of their young lives. I always remember them getting beatings frequently and them living in fear of my father. His discipline did not prevent them from becoming teenage mothers.

>3. Supervision. The mother is working long hours to take care
>of the family, and nobody's watching the kids.

We were latchkey kids, too. The interesting thing was many of my other friends (including kids from two-parent homes) where engaging in sex in their preteens. One particular friend was often left at home alone because both of her parents had to work. I was the only person allowed to hang with her (she was not allowed to leave the house) because I got good grades...and I was a "good girl". What her parents did not know was she kept me around as a lookout while she had sex with local boys. This is a true story. Her mother figured it out and we got busted one day. Not long after my friend got pregnant.

>I really could go on and on. Whatever you personal choices
>may be, do you seriously beleive that we can have a stong
>community without having stong families?

I could go on, too, but I really do understand your point. However, I've seen enough "exceptions" to know that after so long in this country Black folks really are buying into a false standard, embracing "traditional" values while at the same time our communities are getting worse, not better.

>
>------------------------------
>
>“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.”
> -Kelly
>Miller

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Queal Jay
Member since May 22nd 2002
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Fri Apr-08-05 03:04 PM

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96. "A lot of y'all are missing the big picture."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-08-05 03:07 PM by Queal Jay

  

          

This song just refletcs the reality and is a rallying cry for single RESPONSIBLE Black Mothers. After reading the lyrics I had to re-assess my hate for the song because the lyrics are ok. The hook with the constant spelling and repeating of Baby Mama is what ruins it. But in the grand scheme of things it's not as degrading as A Bitch Iz A Bitch or any song that uses Nigga in it excessively.

Coonery and Black stereotypes sell records, but these records don't encourage this behavior as much as it reflects it and imitates it. Take away this art and the behavior will still exist. Black Artists need to be more responsible about the negative energy that they put out in the society, but if you're a parent of a child and you allow that child to be influenced by Baby Mama then it's YOUR fault, not Fantasia's.

The song has the same sensibility as Keep Your Head Up, but it's just not executed as intelligent.

We need to step up and be men and not allow our sisters to raise multiple generations of children by themselves. And while there are a considerable amount of immature Black women who have babies for all the wrong reasons and repeat that destructive behavior, there are far more Black single mothers who take of their business and create as stable of an environment as they can for them and their children because they have no choice. I can't say the same for a lot of dumb, lazy, irresponsible brothers who run through life as if it's one big fuck fest devoid of any responsibility.

http://www.facebook.com/marquealjordan
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www.marquealjordan.com

  

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Nettrice
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108. "Yep"
In response to Reply # 96
Sat Apr-09-05 09:27 AM by Nettrice

  

          

>We need to step up and be men and not allow our sisters to
>raise multiple generations of children by themselves. And
>while there are a considerable amount of immature Black women
>who have babies for all the wrong reasons and repeat that
>destructive behavior, there are far more Black single mothers
>who take of their business and create as stable of an
>environment as they can for them and their children because
>they have no choice. I can't say the same for a lot of dumb,
>lazy, irresponsible brothers who run through life as if it's
>one big fuck fest devoid of any responsibility.

IMHO single mothers aways get the attacks (and the responsibility), not the guys who help to make the babies. Why is that? (you don't have to answer that question).

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Rozjack
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Fri Apr-08-05 03:15 PM

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98. "Badge of Honor?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I come from a single-mother household. My father died when I was 3. He did't run out on my mother, but still the circumstances of raising a child alone are the same. Yes, my mother took great care of me (and my brother). Neither one of us were "trouble" kids. We never used drugs, dropped out of school or became teenaged parents. We are on the other side of the spectrum. Both of us are college graduates. So yes, my mother did an outstanding job. However, she does not need to be rewarded or praised for raising us. It was her job to raise us. She simply handled the situation.

Expecting to be rewarded for raising a child is like expecting to be rewarded for paying a bill. If I take on the responsibility of getting a credit card, then I should be repsonsible and pay the bill. The creditor is not going to reward me for paying my bill. Why should I expect to be rewarded for doing what I'm supposed to do? The same goes for fathers who have abandoned the mother and child. How many times have we heard people say, "You have to give him credit. He pays his child support and picks up the kids every weekend." So? Is that not what he's supposed to do? Why does he deserve extra credit? Maybe Brian McKnight should sing a song called "Baby Daddy (I Pay My Child Support)."

I'm not putting Fantasia down for writing the song. The song is her opinion and this is mine. She feels that single mothers should get a "badge of honor" for taking care of what they rightfully should take care of and I don't agree. However, I do feel that young girls will get the wrong message from this song. Their young minds are not developed enough to completely grasp the complexity of the song. They will hear what's on the surface: It's okay to be a baby mama.

  

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Nettrice
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Sat Apr-09-05 09:43 AM

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109. "Not really saying it is a badge of honor"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

She uses badge of honor like a metaphor because of how people treat or look at single mothers. Rather than be rewarded I think the song is from one single mother to others. It's meant to support or encourage. People, especially men, can complain about the situation but that does not change the fact that there are many single parents (women and men) who are in the situation right now.

>I come from a single-mother household.

For most of my life so did I (my parents divorced when I was little) but my father was still around and he paid child support. After the age of 9, my mother sent us to stay entire summers at his house and whenever she needed a little break. By the time I was 9 he had 2 more kids to raise and their mother was not nearly as willing to raise their babies, so he was a single father most of time. Now, the weird thing was my father wanted me to take on the role of mother for his youngest and I was just a young teenager. In retrospect, we both realize he was not doing a great job on his own and it was unfair to put me in that role (as a kid)...I was not ready for that and I can't see how anyone would be at that age.

>However, she does not need
>to be rewarded or praised for raising us. It was her job to
>raise us. She simply handled the situation.

But single parents do need praise and support and I bet there were people who either encouraged or helped out along the way. We had our grandmother and aunt...and sometimes our father. Children are more than credit cards. They are human beings, people who need to be able to grow in a stable, safe environment. I saw first hand how bad it was for my sisters and decided babymaking was not for me, not until I could offer the proper environment.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Soulbrotha
Member since Feb 18th 2004
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Fri Apr-08-05 04:34 PM

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100. "RE: Fantasia's 'Baby Mama' Song Sends Bad Message?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Late pass needed here..

The song is annoying and reading the lyrics I don't know maybe that was bad lyric writing 'cos that line 'cos nowadays its like a badge of honor' didn't seem like she was praising the babymama situation it seemed sarcastic to me, imo.

Its not a good msg that ought to be heard anyhow but I guess she's trying to speak out for the babymama's or let them know someone out there understands what they're going through. She herself being one..It certainly isn't a good message..I particularly detest the babymama/babydaddy syndrome and its acceptance in this country but...aah...*walks off*

"Do to others what you would others have done unto you." - The Lord Jesus Christ

SB Video: http://www.youtube.com/soulbrothavideo
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zewari
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123. "if Fantasia sang being a baby momma is a badge of shame..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


... would that have made ya'll happy?? i think it would bring a smile to some of ya'lls faces

the fuck type of cultural elitism is this shit?? who are YA'LL to define what's a good word and what's bad (i.e. baby momma instead of mother)?

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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3X
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Sun Apr-10-05 09:21 AM

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125. "SIMPLE QUESTION"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

Would you introduce your wife or girlfriend (who gave birth to your baby) to your parents as your BABY MAMA? please explain answer

-------
It's incredible how the people that know the least are the first to offer advice.

  

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zewari
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146. "simple answer"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          


no i wouldn't, but that's a product of my cultural up-bringing and i have sense enough to not apply my personal values into the picture.

there are many ppl who openly embrace the term without the baggage you and others put on it as being "disrespectful" and what not. who are the cultural police that decide what's appropriate and what isn't? if you flashed back to the 1800s and heard the "broken english" of the slaves, would you say that's wrong also?

language evolves. it takes new meaning in society as time marches on. i'm not gonna sit here and arrogantly pass judgement on the words ppl use and the lexicons they adopt. that shit is borderline bill cosby.

«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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Soulbrotha
Member since Feb 18th 2004
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Tue Apr-12-05 09:41 PM

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177. "RE: simple answer"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

So you don't see anything wrong with the babymama stereotype no?

"Do to others what you would others have done unto you." - The Lord Jesus Christ

SB Video: http://www.youtube.com/soulbrothavideo
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zewari
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191. "i see a lot of things wrong with the "baby momma" stereotype..."
In response to Reply # 177


  

          

... just like i see a lot of things wrong with ANY other stereotype. i'm not gonna knock the hustle of ppl who redefine the term to empower themselves

  

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Nettrice
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124. "We keep stereotypes alive"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...and not just through music. Art imitates life AND life imitates art. We keep living and reliving it because it is alive (in our minds). Western culture views women as closer to nature, and this is suspect. Women are "naturally" emotional and intuitive; men are more rational. The darker one's skin color, the closer to nature one is assumed to be. This has been putting human over nature, male over female, white over color...images that have allowed the exploitation of nature (and of women and people of color) forever. Science teaches folks not to trust nature (women and people of color) because rationality is more important. It is rational to view women as the people responsible for having children even though we also know it takes an egg and a sperm to make a baby. We have internalized "rationalism' and exploited nature and as a result things are the way they are.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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NETER
Member since Apr 08th 2005
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Sun Apr-10-05 03:18 PM

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126. "RE: Fantasia's 'Baby Mama' Song Sends Bad Message?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The characterization of motherhood being trivialized into a simplistic trivial label such as "baby mama" is a pure example of our inability to grapple with the deliberate manifestations of white supremacy as a power-control mechanism. The wheel of white supremacy is still rolling and yes we are still suffering from century fold degradation in our forms of cultural expression.

Cultural expression speaks to the core identity, self-awareness, and spirit of any people. White supremacy uses these channels of expression to control our desires and our fears because it understands that the control of culture precedes all other methods for obtaining power. If you are to subjugate anyone begin in their midst with their very own forms of song, dance, literature, dress and all artistic expression associated with it



>As I listened to Fantasia caterwauling about how great it is
>to be a “baby mama,” I was reminded once again why I hate the
>show “American Idol.” It’s not just that it has those with no
>talent judging the minimally talented (I exclude the gorgeous
>AND talented Paula Abdul from that assertion). It’s that any
>of us can go to any storefront church in black America and
>find better singers than the ones that appear on the show.

Paula isn't excused for her talent.. she partakes and profits off the bafoonery

>
>Let’s face it: that’s what many “baby mamas” have done. They
>got knocked up by some loser who couldn’t or wouldn’t marry
>them. That’s a mistake. You don’t go around singing songs
>praising your mistakes. You correct them.

This is a grave miscalculation on your part. Many women become pregnant not because they slept with a loser but b/c the loser did a hell of a job in pretending not to be a loser. Of course that doesn't negate the fact that there was an err in decision-making, but my eye tells me that many women open themselves up to men merely because they believe that they aren't going to leave them. I think if many women knew what the "response" would be then it may not reach that point. Secondly we must acknowledge the role that the courts and government has in this area. Child Support is one of the most destructive control mechanisms that the government can employ within the context of domestic life. The system pits mother against father while also serving catalyst for confrontation and conflict in the black community (just as mandatory arrest policies for domestic violence).

>But let’s assume -— and believe me, this is only for
>argument’s sake -— that Fantasia is right, and that “baby
>mamas” do deserve praise. Why do they deserve more praise than
>the sisters who decide to get married and then have children?
>Why do “baby mamas” deserve more praise than those sisters who
>decided to wait before either having children or getting
>married and decided to attend college and get a career and
>degree first?

Waiting to get married or obtaining a degree isn't the surest way to harmony in child-rearing. Consider infant mortality rates...The infant mortality rate (number of infant deaths per 1,000) was about 15 per 1000 for whites in 1900 and 30 per 1000 for blacks. With all of the medical advancements and so called access gains we've achieved the number has dropped dramatically. As of 2003 the rate was 4.2 for whites and 8.0 per 1,000 for Blacks. Although this is a substantial decrease it is significant to note that the "double" standard still exists. The disparity and disproportionate rate is apparent (4.2/8.0). This suggests that institutional racism is still a factor. This exists regardless of age, economic background, marital status etc. College educated black women are still more likely to have babies of low-birth weight than college educated white women...!

>And isn’t Fantasia ignoring the wealth of problems single
>motherhood has brought black America? If I’ve heard one person
>involved in juvenile justice matters tell me once, they’ve
>told me a score of times: most of the young black men in “the
>system” come from homes with a single mother. No father
>around. In a town like Baltimore, where 75 percent of black
>boys don’t graduate from high school, you can bet most of
>those dropouts are the sons of “baby mamas.”

You fail to acknowledge the structural forms of racism and classism that leads to these conditions.. e.g. school vouchers.. funding based on property taxes ... discriminatory practices within the public school system (teacher referral of black boys to special education programs)

>Speaking at Morgan State University two years ago, author
>Jawanza Kunjufu told a room full of black folks that “the
>greatest demon in black America is fatherlessness. The common
>variable for the black dropout rate, the incarceration rate
>and drug use is the daddy didn’t stay.”
>
>Kunjufu noted that 90 percent of black families had a father
>in the home in 1920 and 80 percent as recently as 1960. Today
>the figure is 32 percent.
>
>“Slavery did not destroy the black family,” Kunjufu correctly
>concluded.

(Slavery had a role in this instability.. I dont recall any studies revealing that slaves were allowed to marry or defend their women from whatever the master desired)
>
>It took a value shift of seismic proportion among black
>Americans of the latter part of the 20th century to do what
>slavery, white racists and white racism couldn’t do in the
>hundreds of years before. And now we have dimwitted people
>like Fantasia celebrating that value shift in songs extolling
>the virtues of being a “baby mama.”

"A seismic shift among black Americans" You must mean the sellout Negroes who stepped into political office in the 1970s and America's Black cities ... the Morial's in New Orleans for example. These executives were not adequately prepared (nor was it their intention) to run the urban core with necessary building techniques and plans of economic empowerment for black people. Furthermore, they were unable to adjust for white flight which was also coupled with "capital flight." Deindustrialization was one of the root causes of black family erosion ... along the chemical warfare that was unleashed on the black and poor. Along with drug use was the shift of the criminal injustice system's approach to drug addiction from a medicinal-judicial mode (where one could receive medical treatment for his or her addictions) to a criminal-judicial model (lock up the fiends).

The time has come for institutions (independent of gov. funding) that can foster a forum for the cultivation of advanced counter-hegemonic, post-colonialist, post modern Afrikan centered arts and education. Education for liberation first and foremost.


Unlike educational systems that are supported by the status quo (white supremacy) in western culture that provides "education" for "employment e.g. gettin those degrees. That is, education to foster workers for capitalist gain. Even in the context of "institutes of higher learning" such as colleges and universities (HBCUs too) there is an emphasis on upholding the status of western culture most often at the expense of other cultural perspectives and primarily to uphold the cultural contributions of Europe as a prerequisite to learning. These institutions produce neo-conservative and pseudo-liberal black public intellectuals such as Henry Louis Gates, Jr., William Julius Wilson, Stanley Crouch, and Anthony Appiah .These and others have produced so-called scholarship, its African and African American subject matter notwithstanding, for an elitist group of primarily white intellectuals and educators as its audience

We must strive to circumvent the ability of these universities and other entities to prevent access to detailed primary research materials in addition to making this information available to the local black community-this will not be achieved through Saturday tutoring sessions and painting projects in elementary schools. The goal is to produce covert black intellectuals that produce scholarship from primary sources gathered from other grass-roots intellectuals throughout the Afrikan Diaspora. Networks of localized institutions that share historical, cultural, spiritual and political information on a large scale through the work of organized travel study and cultural exchange trips...


UHURU SASA!

In The Spirit of Sankofa

  

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Expertise
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127. "I like it. It's a catchy tune."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

*shrugs*

And I don't even like Fantasia. She's simply too bama for me. And this is coming from someone who's lived in the country all but five years of his life.

But it's a positive song. I don't see what the deal is.

I have more of a problem with someone mentioning Gregory Kane. As if he's important or something.
__________________________
Sports and Politics are all found here:

http://expertise.blogdrive.com

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
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Mon Apr-11-05 01:00 PM

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129. "single motherhood is more a class issue"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-11-05 01:15 PM by blkprinceMD05

  

          

than a race issue, its just that a lot of our ppl are in the lower socio-economic classes in this country, there are plenty of white single moms in the trailor parks of US so ppl quit with this black self hate shyt

the only part of the song i don't like its the title, cause that is a term our ppl came up with, but im sure they wented the song to be catchy, so baby mama works better than single mother i guess

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Mon Apr-11-05 01:02 PM

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130. "RE: single motherhood is more a class issue"
In response to Reply # 129


          

>their are
>plenty of white single moms in the trailor parks of US so ppl
>quit with this black self hate shyt

- show me where 7 out of 10 white babies are born out of wedlock and 8 out of 10 white mothers are raising their kids by themselves...

better yet, show me anywhere on this planet where the ratio of fatherless homes/children are as high as ours...i'll be here waiting on some articles and statistics.

  

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blkprinceMD05
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133. "the average white woman is richer"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

than the average black woman, so again i say its a class issue and i knew ur self hating ass would be the first to respond to what i wrote, its like anything that says black ppl arent the dung of the earth is a personal attack on u...

  

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suave_bro
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135. "so u dont have the evidence 2 support your argument?"
In response to Reply # 133


          

couldnt you have just said that? or are you on your period...and what does $$$ have to do with somebody having babies out of wedlock? a woman with more $$$ in her bank account is more likely to make the decision to have her baby after she is married, and a poor woman is more likely to say "fuck it?!"...help me out here.

  

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blkprinceMD05
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Mon Apr-11-05 01:35 PM

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136. "2 things"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

1)when u have more resources u have more access to contraceptives and other means of preventing pregnancy, u also, more importantly have a different value system, and more access to abortion, do either of us really kno how many single white women are getting pregnant, and are just having the babies aborted

2) on the flip side, richer men are gonna be more inclined to step up and take care of their children because they wont regard them as a financial burden as much lower socio-econ. men will

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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138. "Question about this point:"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

>1)when u have more resources u have more access to
>contraceptives and other means of preventing pregnancy

How much does NOT SCREWING cost?

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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blkprinceMD05
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139. "bout as much as being realistic does"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

nuthin to it but to do it (c) someone

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Mon Apr-11-05 01:51 PM

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141. "RE: 2 things"
In response to Reply # 136


          

>1)when u have more resources u have more access to
>contraceptives and other means of preventing pregnancy,

- condoms are free. condoms are free. birth control pills are free. birth control pills are free. what? u gonna say they cant afford transportation to health clinics now?

>u
>also, more importantly have a different value system,

- uhmmm...must I school you on black folks value system during slavery all the way through the jim crowe era? we were BROKE and had a very potent value system.

>and more
>access to abortion,

- black women currently lead in abortions as well www.blackgenocide.org


>do either of us really kno how many single
>white women are getting pregnant, and are just having the
>babies aborted

- obviously not as much as black females, check the link. and goggle is everybody's friend.


>2) on the flip side, richer men are gonna be more inclined to
>step up and take care of their children because they wont
>regard them as a financial burden as much lower socio-econ.
>men will

- this is just pure comedy. so your argument NOW is that black folks are so poor and down trodden that we cant AFFORD to take care our our children? wow. so i guess when we had extremely high marriage rates up until the 70's we must have been high on some sort of drug...

  

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blkprinceMD05
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142. "u have a link that says blackgenocide"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

why would u list something so obviously biased as some sort of evidence to ur case, and more importantly why would u expect me to click that shyt...

  

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suave_bro
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151. "wow."
In response to Reply # 142
Tue Apr-12-05 08:06 AM by suave_bro

          

so on an "activist" message board, posting a web site owned and operated by BLACK PEOPLE, who are out there on the front lines marching and organizing against BLACK ABORTION (which they consider genocide) a clear form of ACTIVISM (we are on an ACTIVIST message board remember) is "biased!?"....and this coming from a supposed black man!? absolutely amazing.

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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Mon Apr-11-05 01:06 PM

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131. "it's a cultural issue"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

sure, poverty plays into it, but other poor people don't have the number of children born out of wedlock that we do.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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blkprinceMD05
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134. "im gonna research that"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

because i kno first hand a lot of unmmaried single latino mothers and few white as well

  

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sunngodd
Member since Feb 20th 2003
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137. "Please, allow me"
In response to Reply # 134
Mon Apr-11-05 01:44 PM by sunngodd

  

          

Let's comapre to similarly downtrodden groups, Black and Hispanics:

Black median income:$33,598
Hispanic median income: $34,490

http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/f07b.html
http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/f07d.html

Ok, so Hispanics make a little more than Blacks, on average. So let's look at the rate of children born out of wedlock for both groups:

Black children born out of wedlock: 69.3%
Hispanic children born out of wedlock: 21.9%

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/commentprint050100b.html

If poverty was the central issue, we would expect the Hispanic rate of children born out of wedlock to be similar to that of Blacks. But its not. It's not even close. Thus, we can't say that poverty is the central issue, it has to be something else.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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blkprinceMD05
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140. "ok i stand corrected"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

thanx for sharing the knowledge, it is an issue but not a central one, so u say its more cultural, based therefore on our cultural history in this country? what exactlty are the specific factors?

  

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sunngodd
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143. "RE: ok i stand corrected"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

>based therefore on
>our cultural history in this country? what exactlty are the
>specific factors?

It's hard to pinpoint specifically, but at some point after the civil rights movement, Black culture began becoming extremley self-destructive. We began to devalue family, education, and hard work and value, ignorance and living a thug life. We began to blame the white man for all our problems, "the man is holding me down" became a common saying. Black people that were successful became sellouts. Our women became "bitches." Men living women alone to raise chilren became common place, and some women even accept this as common place: "i don't need no man to help me raise no child."

I can't say exactly how or why this happened, but it would be an excellent topic for research.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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blkprinceMD05
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144. "maybe it was the sense of community that"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

was lost after things became intergrated, this would seem to make sense judging by the time frame and after effects

  

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sunngodd
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145. "RE: maybe it was the sense of community that"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

i think integration had a lot do with the economic situation we're in now, I don't no how much it had to do with losing cultural values.

------------------------------

“The Negro pays for what he wants and begs for what he needs.” -Kelly Miller

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Mon Apr-11-05 04:20 PM

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147. "Let me echo some other sentiments here."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I *hate* this song and everything it represents.

Celebrating... encouraging, even, this bullshit is vomit-inducing and fucking sad.

  

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Nettrice
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149. "Hate is a strong word"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

>I *hate* this song and everything it represents.

Why is that?

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-12-05 09:32 AM

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153. "Much of this has already been said in this thread but..."
In response to Reply # 149
Tue Apr-12-05 09:36 AM by soulpsychodelicyde

          

I hate the message it sends to our community, to our young girls, in particular.

You think young girls, already completely and totally surrounded by the 'baby mama' phenomenon, will be able to discern that this is a 'keep ya head up' type of song, rather than an encouragement, albeit a subtle one, to perpetuate the behavior that leads to these anthems?

While I understand, on some level, why folks are defending the song and its message, I simply can't.

*ON EDIT*

Actually, I *can't* understand why folks are defending the song given all that's going on in our community. But, to each his own.

Nope. Can't clap to this. Not at all.

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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155. "THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU...1,000,000%"
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

CO-SIGN.

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
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Tue Apr-12-05 10:36 AM

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156. "*Head nod*"
In response to Reply # 155


          

Seriously.

Perhaps we're the only ones.

*shrug*

  

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Nettrice
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160. "A song is a song..."
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

>I hate the message it sends to our community, to our young
>girls, in particular.

Okay but it was a man (my Pops) who sent me that message as a girl. I did not get it from a song or the radio.

>You think young girls, already completely and totally
>surrounded by the 'baby mama' phenomenon, will be able to
>discern that this is a 'keep ya head up' type of song, rather
>than an encouragement, albeit a subtle one, to perpetuate the
>behavior that leads to these anthems?

Most girls are smart and a lot of them can think critically about what they hear. The problem is the messages that get from adults, sometimes their own parents and relatives.

>Actually, I *can't* understand why folks are defending the
>song given all that's going on in our community. But, to each
>his own.

I couldn't care less about the song.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
9433 posts
Tue Apr-12-05 12:23 PM

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161. "WTF!?!?"
In response to Reply # 160


          

>>Actually, I *can't* understand why folks are defending the
>>song given all that's going on in our community. But, to
>each
>>his own.
>
>I couldn't care less about the song.

- so basically you want us to just pretend you didnt make all those statements above DEFENDING the song!? man oh man...

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-12-05 01:16 PM

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162. "RE: A song is a song..."
In response to Reply # 160


          

>>I hate the message it sends to our community, to our young
>>girls, in particular.
>
>Okay but it was a man (my Pops) who sent me that message as a
>girl. I did not get it from a song or the radio.

Ummm... and if said message is reinforced by the songs you hear on the radio, and the things you see in real life, you don't think that has an effect?
>
>>You think young girls, already completely and totally
>>surrounded by the 'baby mama' phenomenon, will be able to
>>discern that this is a 'keep ya head up' type of song,
>rather
>>than an encouragement, albeit a subtle one, to perpetuate
>the
>>behavior that leads to these anthems?
>
>Most girls are smart and a lot of them can think critically
>about what they hear. The problem is the messages that get
>from adults, sometimes their own parents and relatives.

Critical thinking? Do you think critical thinking is what causes 3 out of 4 of our children to be born to single parent households?? C'mon, now. That doesn't even make sense. I do agree that parents and relatives play an integral role here, but the problem is THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB, and so songs like this are influencing young minds that have no one there to tell them differently, and have no examples by which to model themselves. If you and everyone you know is the direct result of, or *is* a "baby mama," how would you know that there's another way? By listening to Fantasia?

Yeesh.

>>Actually, I *can't* understand why folks are defending the
>>song given all that's going on in our community. But, to
>each
>>his own.
>
>I couldn't care less about the song.

That's clear.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we should be protesting Fantasia or burning her in effigy, I'm simply responding to the spirit of this post, and again, I hate the song and think it sends the wrong message.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Tue Apr-12-05 01:37 PM

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163. "very well said"
In response to Reply # 162


          

rickey smiley didnt waste any time puting his version of the song out there. alot of black people detest this song...

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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Tue Apr-12-05 03:59 PM

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165. "Excellent points..."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

looks like you've been to the "MALACHI School Of Debate Winning".

LOL

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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Nettrice
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Tue Apr-12-05 04:06 PM

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167. "RE: Excellent points..."
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

>looks like you've been to the "MALACHI School Of Debate
>Winning".
>
>LOL

This is not a debate.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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MALACHI
Member since Jan 22nd 2003
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Tue Apr-12-05 04:34 PM

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170. "RE: Excellent points..."
In response to Reply # 167


  

          


>This is not a debate.

It SURE ISN'T...it's a VERBAL SLAUGHTER...

(Just kidding Nettrice, I'm just instigating...don't get mad...)

"Is it not one father that all of us have? Is it not one God that has created us? Why is it that we deal treacherously with one another?" --Malachi 2:10

  

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Nettrice
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Tue Apr-12-05 05:37 PM

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173. "Never mad..."
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

>
>>This is not a debate.
>
>It SURE ISN'T...it's a VERBAL SLAUGHTER...
>
>(Just kidding Nettrice, I'm just instigating...don't get
>mad...)

...just amused.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-12-05 04:16 PM

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168. "LOL."
In response to Reply # 165


          

Or you to the Soulpsychodelicyde Debate Institute... :-P

  

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Nettrice
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Tue Apr-12-05 04:01 PM

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166. "RE: A song is a song..."
In response to Reply # 162
Tue Apr-12-05 04:10 PM by Nettrice

  

          

>Ummm... and if said message is reinforced by the songs you
>hear on the radio, and the things you see in real life, you
>don't think that has an effect?

Hearing from my Pops or from a relative has much more of an effect. The key word you used is reinforce. You can't just criticize these messages without looking deeper to who puts out the message and why. People have to figure out a way to counter the messages or stop folks from distributing the messages. This means the structure must change, so it's not the song or the messenger but the structure that should be challenged. Change the structure and there is nothing to reinforce. Censorship or the suppression of messages that are considered offensive is not the answer.

>Critical thinking? Do you think critical thinking is what
>causes 3 out of 4 of our children to be born to single parent
>households?? C'mon, now. That doesn't even make sense. I do
>agree that parents and relatives play an integral role here,
>but the problem is THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB

Edit: What is their job?

When I was a kid I sought help to sort out the negative messages both from relatives and the media. I discovered that while I was smart I was not able to make sense of all the b.s. because it was coming from all directions. I had to learn to become more aware and how to think even more critically. Why do some kids do well (in school) until their preteens and then fall through the cracks? I hear all these stories about how kids seem to be on the right track and, suddenly, they change paths. There is a reason for this...

>how would you know that
>there's another way? By listening to Fantasia?
>
>Yeesh.

So what you are saying is that by boycotting this one song that all the problems are solved? Of course not.

>>>Actually, I *can't* understand why folks are defending the
>>>song given all that's going on in our community. But, to
>>each
>>>his own.
>>
>>I couldn't care less about the song.
>
>That's clear.

Good. I couldn't care less about most things in the media. I am busy working with young folks and helping them find their own stories. Some folks think that complaining without action is solving a problem. It isn't.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12117 posts
Tue Apr-12-05 04:29 PM

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169. "RE: A song is a song..."
In response to Reply # 166
Tue Apr-12-05 04:34 PM by soulpsychodelicyde

          

>>Ummm... and if said message is reinforced by the songs you
>>hear on the radio, and the things you see in real life, you
>>don't think that has an effect?
>
>Hearing from my Pops or from a relative has much more of an
>effect. The key word you used is reinforce. You can't just
>criticize these messages without looking deeper to who puts
>out the message and why. People have to figure out a way to
>counter the messages or stop folks from distributing the
>messages. This means the structure must change, so it's not
>the song or the messenger but the structure that should be
>challenged. Change the structure and there is nothing to
>reinforce. Censorship or the suppression of messages that are
>considered offensive is not the answer.

Let me be clear. I don't disagree with you at all. But the REALITY is, that many of our kids don't have anyone like your pops or other relatives there to guide and reinforce. No one's arguing that the structure isn't flawed. In fact, I believe that *is* the argument -- that there exists a structure in our community that celebrates this type of behavior...the very behavior that arguably is at the root of many of our community ills. This song is but one manifestation of this structure, and was the subject of this post. I'm not advocating censorship, rather community responsibility.
>
>>Critical thinking? Do you think critical thinking is what
>>causes 3 out of 4 of our children to be born to single
>parent
>>households?? C'mon, now. That doesn't even make sense. I
>do
>>agree that parents and relatives play an integral role here,
>>but the problem is THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB
>
>Edit: What is their job?
>
>When I was a kid I sought help to sort out the negative
>messages both from relatives and the media. I discovered that
>while I was smart I was not able to make sense of all the b.s.
>because it was coming from all directions. I had to learn to
>become more aware and how to think even more critically. Why
>do some kids do well (in school) until their preteens and then
>fall through the cracks? I hear all these stories about how
>kids seem to be on the right track and, suddenly, they change
>paths. There is a reason for this...

EXACTLY. Listen, I could wax philosphical for ages (and have!) about where the breakdown in our community that lead to the proliferation of the "baby mama" era took place, but that's not the point. The point is, if your mother was a "baby mama," as was your aunt, cousins, friends, and their mothers, who are you to learn DIFFERENTLY from? If we *know* this is an issue, then why, as a community, are we creating, and then defending, songs like these? I just don't get it. I'm not suggesting they ARE the problem, I'm suggesting that it compounds an already out-of-control issue in a way that is hard to quantify.
>
>>how would you know that
>>there's another way? By listening to Fantasia?
>>
>>Yeesh.
>
>So what you are saying is that by boycotting this one song
>that all the problems are solved? Of course not.

Did I say anything about boycotting? Did you read my post? I *specifcally* said I DO NOT advocate anything like that, particularly b/c I think our efforts are better spent elsewhere.
>
>>>>Actually, I *can't* understand why folks are defending the
>>>>song given all that's going on in our community. But, to
>>>each
>>>>his own.
>>>
>>>I couldn't care less about the song.
>>
>>That's clear.
>
>Good. I couldn't care less about most things in the media. I
>am busy working with young folks and helping them find their
>own stories. Some folks think that complaining without action
>is solving a problem. It isn't.

This has a distinct tone that I won't feed into. But your work is admirable and please keep doing what it is you're doing. Again, this was in response to a post, not a monologue on Fantasia and the media. I said I hate the song (I do.), you asked why, I responded.

  

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Nettrice
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Tue Apr-12-05 05:54 PM

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174. "Cool..."
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

>Let me be clear. I don't disagree with you at all. But the
>REALITY is, that many of our kids don't have anyone like your
>pops or other relatives there to guide and reinforce.

Believe me, I am aware of the reality. One thing I do know is that preaching (to these kids) gets a glazed eye or eye roll response. It takes time and effort to reverse a lot of the conditioning.

>No
>one's arguing that the structure isn't flawed. In fact, I
>believe that *is* the argument -- that there exists a
>structure in our community that celebrates this type of
>behavior...the very behavior that arguably is at the root of
>many of our community ills.

Not just our community. Kids are quick to bring up those "girls gone wild" ads and shows that are all over TV. Those are not Black girls or women portrayed in those ads and look what happened when they went too far...some group of concerned (white?) parents will speak up until the next time. I know some parents who don't allow TV (or radio) in their houses but the kids see and hear those messages outside of the home.

>EXACTLY. Listen, I could wax philosphical for ages (and
>have!) about where the breakdown in our community that lead to
>the proliferation of the "baby mama" era took place, but
>that's not the point. The point is, if your mother was a
>"baby mama," as was your aunt, cousins, friends, and their
>mothers, who are you to learn DIFFERENTLY from?

My (paternal) greatgrandmother and grandmother were "baby mommas", so my Pops thought that we would become the same. Fortunately, we had our mother to counter that by example. Often it takes one generation to break a cycle but there has to be a catalyst, something that motivates or drives people to make a change...and I am not talking about music. We need a movement.

>If we *know*
>this is an issue, then why, as a community, are we creating,
>and then defending, songs like these? I just don't get it.
>I'm not suggesting they ARE the problem, I'm suggesting that
>it compounds an already out-of-control issue in a way that is
>hard to quantify.

Oh, I am not defending (or attacking) the song. I just think it goes deeper than that.

>>Good. I couldn't care less about most things in the media.
>I
>>am busy working with young folks and helping them find their
>>own stories. Some folks think that complaining without
>action
>>is solving a problem. It isn't.
>
>This has a distinct tone that I won't feed into.

This was less a direct comment to you and more of a general observation.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12117 posts
Tue Apr-12-05 08:41 PM

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175. "RE: Cool..."
In response to Reply # 174


          

>Not just our community. Kids are quick to bring up those
>"girls gone wild" ads and shows that are all over TV. Those
>are not Black girls or women portrayed in those ads and look
>what happened when they went too far...some group of concerned
>(white?) parents will speak up until the next time. I know
>some parents who don't allow TV (or radio) in their houses but
>the kids see and hear those messages outside of the home.

Sorry, I have to disagree here. NO. OTHER. COMMUNITY has 75% of their children being born to single parent households, less singing odes to it. NOT. ONE. So "Girls Gone Wild" or no... there is something amiss with our kids. Something that does not (or has not) plagued other communities. This is solely OUR issue. That said, the fact that it's deeper is obvious and, again, not the topic of this particular discussion. The topic of discussion is the song, and why some of us think it's disgusting.

  

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Nettrice
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Tue Apr-12-05 08:55 PM

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176. "RE: Cool..."
In response to Reply # 175
Tue Apr-12-05 08:56 PM by Nettrice

  

          

>Sorry, I have to disagree here. NO. OTHER. COMMUNITY has 75%
>of their children being born to single parent households, less
>singing odes to it.

Where I stop with the criticism is single parent households. This, in of itself, is not where the problem is and perhaps this is not for this particular discussion thread.

>This is solely
>OUR issue.

I don't agree (based on experience) and we can agree to disagree. Is the problem that single parent households are bad? If so, I am sure that people can give examples of how that is not the case. IMHO the problem is not single parenting but the structure that has precipitated more unfit parenting, along with lots of irresponsible choices that lead to unplanned pregnancies and unstable households (for example).

>The
>topic of discussion is the song, and why some of us think it's
>disgusting.

Disgusting is a strong word and does much to tear folks down.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12117 posts
Wed Apr-13-05 08:20 AM

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179. "RE: Cool..."
In response to Reply # 176


          

>>Sorry, I have to disagree here. NO. OTHER. COMMUNITY has
>75%
>>of their children being born to single parent households,
>less
>>singing odes to it.
>
>Where I stop with the criticism is single parent households.
>This, in of itself, is not where the problem is and perhaps
>this is not for this particular discussion thread.

I completely disagree here. But you're right. It's probably for another thread.
>
>>This is solely
>>OUR issue.
>
>I don't agree (based on experience) and we can agree to
>disagree. Is the problem that single parent households are
>bad? If so, I am sure that people can give examples of how
>that is not the case. IMHO the problem is not single
>parenting but the structure that has precipitated more unfit
>parenting, along with lots of irresponsible choices that lead
>to unplanned pregnancies and unstable households (for
>example).

I think you're missing the point many of us (myself included) are trying to make here. And yes, there are hundreds of thousands of examples of single parent households that churned out critically-thinking, productive, and decent human beings. But is that what we should aspire to? Of course not. The problem is not SPHH's in and of themselves, the problem is that it has now become the RULE and NOT the exception in our community which has lead, in my opinion, to many other issues within our community. So to the point you made earlier, the structure is FLAWED, and this song CELEBRATES the flaw in that structure. I cannot clap to that.
>
>>The
>>topic of discussion is the song, and why some of us think
>it's
>>disgusting.
>
>Disgusting is a strong word and does much to tear folks down.

I'm oh so clear on how "strong" a word it is. It was used intentionally.
>

  

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Nettrice
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Wed Apr-13-05 12:27 PM

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184. "RE: Cool..."
In response to Reply # 179


  

          

>I think you're missing the point many of us (myself included)
>are trying to make here. And yes, there are hundreds of
>thousands of examples of single parent households that churned
>out critically-thinking, productive, and decent human beings.
>But is that what we should aspire to? Of course not.

Why not? I think divorce can be just as damaging as being a "baby mama" or a single parent...and you won't see me singing any baby mama songs. IMHO the structure we currently live in was forced on us when we arrived here on slave ships. My ancestors were not "immigrants" and the system we learned to adapt to does not necessarily suit our needs. Everything we do is commodified, often at our expense. As a result, we get caught up in these cycles and talking and singing about anything to make a buck. Shooting the messenger is not going to help the problem. We can choose to be critical, to always attack the "product" or "producer" while totally supporting the "manufacturer" and "distributer" who is holding up the whole structure. This will never solve the problem. Sigh...

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Wed Apr-13-05 12:55 PM

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187. "Again."
In response to Reply # 184


          

I don't disagree with you here (for the most part). *This* post was about the song, and why so many of us dislike (is that a weak enough word for you?) it. Nothing more.

Now, if you want to make a post about the structure that has allowed songs like these to be celebrated and become popular, I'll be your first responder, but that's not what we're talking about here.

I said it a couple of posts up.. this song is certainly a *symptom* of a bigger problem, not *the* problem in and of itself.

  

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RexLongfellow
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Mon Apr-11-05 05:03 PM

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148. "Again, It's Not That Serious"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Reason for saying that is because there's so many other songs out there that probably have WORSE messages in the content of the song.

Add to the fact that the lyrics aren't nearly as bad as I thought they would be and you got a case where people need to refocus their priorities.

Abdul Jabbar, Muggsy Malone you
I don't know what that means but you know what I meant when I told you (c) Sean Price

  

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Nettrice
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Tue Apr-12-05 07:10 AM

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150. "Refocusing priorities"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

>Add to the fact that the lyrics aren't nearly as bad as I
>thought they would be and you got a case where people need to
>refocus their priorities.

Agreed. Once again, I find it amusing how so many men reply and debate in posts about women. It seems to be an issue they care about but I never see suggestion for solutions. Wonder why? (this is a rhetorical question)

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
9433 posts
Tue Apr-12-05 08:11 AM

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152. "whats funnier"
In response to Reply # 150


          

is how you refuse to acknowledge that womens hands are dirty AT ALL in the whole "baby momma" culture that we (black folks) live in.

to this day, on the whole issue of "baby momma's", I have NEVER heard a female say that baby mommas are just as promiscuous, trifling, reckless, and irresponsible as the men are that helped them make the baby. you're not doing anything but pushing the same old "women are the helpless victims who were duped" tired bullshit.

  

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Nettrice
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Tue Apr-12-05 11:32 AM

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157. "Huh?"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

My previous messages (above)?

>to this day, on the whole issue of "baby momma's", I have
>NEVER heard a female say that baby mommas are just as
>promiscuous, trifling, reckless, and irresponsible as the men
>are that helped them make the baby. you're not doing anything
>but pushing the same old "women are the helpless victims who
>were duped" tired bullshit.

Question: When was the last time you posted about promiscuous, trifling, reckless, and irresponsible brothas? All I see you shouting about are the promiscuous, trifling, reckless, and irresponsible Black women whose pussies stink.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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suave_bro
Member since Nov 19th 2002
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Tue Apr-12-05 12:13 PM

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159. "errr...from somebody who admits to not reading my post's"
In response to Reply # 157


          

that was a dumbass question. I'm equally hard on both young black males and young black females....mostly because im "young" my damn self.

but if you dont read my posts how would you know? be gone lady.

  

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Nettrice
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164. "RE: errr...from somebody who admits to not reading my post's"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

>that was a dumbass question. I'm equally hard on both young
>black males and young black females....mostly because im
>"young" my damn self.
>
>but if you dont read my posts how would you know? be gone
>lady.

Ha, ha! I usually don't read your posts but for some reason that message of yours stuck. Shame, shame.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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JSYM7
Member since Jul 31st 2003
219 posts
Tue Apr-12-05 04:56 PM

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171. "RE: errr...from somebody who admits to not reading my post's"
In response to Reply # 164
Tue Apr-12-05 05:03 PM by JSYM7

          

The bottom line brothers have got to be more responsible and stop running around with a F@#$ the world menatality thereby reducing every women to the level of whore or bitch. Respect your sister because the more you screw her over the more you screw over yourself.

The Women have to be more gaurded and less open to the advances of the above mention video thug/corporate coon type who are only going to F and leave them for dead. Respect yourself because even if it means being alone for a while taking unnessecary risks with out of sink fools is never a good idea there are good men out their (change your scene).

And lets face it there are always going to be some loose women and dead beat men but we don't need them speaking or characterizing the whole group. As for this song it is garbage on an artistic level simply because it is pop or should I say poop and baby mama is a title we as a people need to work on irradicating because people who have children are mothers and they are often mothers and fathers but the term should simply be mother. Baby mama was created by dead beat ghetto dads looking to escape responsiblity and later popularized by slang. Similar to the way wife beaters are what my favorite T-shirts are called cause they are usual the shirt you see on the cops tv show worn by some fat retard who just commiteed domestic violence. Every bodies responsible and the song still sucks more than many things I have heard in my short life but what can we expect from american trifle but mindless drible for the mindless masses.

  

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Nettrice
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178. "Baby mama, sperm donor..."
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

I agree that these are words we need to stop using to categorize parent's roles in the family but where does it begin? With a song?

>And lets face it there are always going to be some loose women
>and dead beat men but we don't need them speaking or
>characterizing the whole group.

IMHO the danger is in the generalizations. Not all single mothers are loose women. Some are widowers and nowadays some have lost their husbands to the military and war in Iraq. On the other hand, some are/were teenagers who made poor choices. However, once that choice has been made the only thing folks can do is live...and do better. If everyone makes more of an effort to do better at the start then maybe we'll see a change. In the meantime, I am not about to criticize the sistas who are single mothers and I am going to always ask folks to consider their options.

>Baby mama was created by dead beat
>ghetto dads looking to escape responsiblity and later
>popularized by slang.

That's self-fulfilling prophecy.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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JSYM7
Member since Jul 31st 2003
219 posts
Wed Apr-13-05 08:51 AM

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181. "RE: Baby mama, sperm donor..."
In response to Reply # 178


          

I agree I don't criticize sisters who lost there husbands in various ways even divorce. I do however challenge people to make better decisions both men and women.

Men need to understand you can't treat women like trash and expect Queens. Trash in trash out as the old saying goes

Women need to hold the line and make better decisions concerning their sexuality especially outside of a truely commited we are building a future together relationship(marriage anyone)

I understand the diffuclty that young girls face and the lack of direction that young men face and the fact is we have to decide to create a better environment for our youth those of us who are educated and have found a better path should consider mentoring or something of that nature so that in the case of young men they are not taking all of there advise about women from one of the many rap coons or some other TV pimp/drug dealer and so that or women are empowered by women that love and respect themselves.

  

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Nettrice
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61747 posts
Wed Apr-13-05 11:00 AM

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183. "Good"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

It goes both way...

>I understand the diffuclty that young girls face and the lack
>of direction that young men face and the fact is we have to
>decide to create a better environment for our youth those of
>us who are educated and have found a better path should
>consider mentoring or something of that nature so that in the
>case of young men they are not taking all of there advise
>about women from one of the many rap coons or some other TV
>pimp/drug dealer and so that or women are empowered by women
>that love and respect themselves.

I love (not really) when people say it's the parents fault. So many of our kids who are/were born to single or teenage mothers are in foster care or the care of grandparents and guardians. Big Brother and Sister Association reports that most of the Black children they serve don't get Black mentors (male or female) and many sit longer on waiting lists compared to other groups of kids. It's a shame...but some of these people loooove to complain and attack folks because of song?

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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JSYM7
Member since Jul 31st 2003
219 posts
Wed Apr-13-05 12:34 PM

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185. "RE: Good"
In response to Reply # 183


          

nah I won't attack the song for that sack I just don't like it artisticly(and I hate the american idiot show it came from too) and I think we should be careful of the tags that people place on us. Because when you exhault the negative the negative will be reflected.

  

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Nettrice
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Thu Apr-14-05 10:08 PM

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194. "Agreed but"
In response to Reply # 185


  

          

>I think we should be careful of the tags that people
>place on us. Because when you exhault the negative the
>negative will be reflected.

We can't really control what other people think or the labels people place on us. The negative is reflected and that is a big problem but not all the time. Sometimes people are doing the best with what they got.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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JSYM7
Member since Jul 31st 2003
219 posts
Wed Apr-13-05 08:51 AM

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182. "RE: Baby mama, sperm donor..."
In response to Reply # 178


          

I agree I don't criticize sisters who lost there husbands in various ways even divorce. I do however challenge people to make better decisions both men and women.

Men need to understand you can't treat women like trash and expect Queens. Trash in trash out as the old saying goes

Women need to hold the line and make better decisions concerning their sexuality especially outside of a truely commited we are building a future together relationship(marriage anyone)

I understand the diffuclty that young girls face and the lack of direction that young men face and the fact is we have to decide to create a better environment for our youth those of us who are educated and have found a better path should consider mentoring or something of that nature so that in the case of young men they are not taking all of there advise about women from one of the many rap coons or some other TV pimp/drug dealer and so that or women are empowered by women that love and respect themselves.

  

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JSYM7
Member since Jul 31st 2003
219 posts
Wed Apr-13-05 12:35 PM

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186. "RE: Baby mama, sperm donor..."
In response to Reply # 182


          

sorry I must have posted my response twice

  

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commondeenominator
Member since Nov 30th 2004
26 posts
Thu Apr-14-05 11:35 AM

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188. "I dont think the girl meant to big up having children out of wedlock..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

i just think she was giving a shout out to the women who are having a hard time raising kids all by themselves. If you listen to the lyrics, she's not glamourizing it, she's just saying how hard it is for the women who probably otherwise want the dream nuclear family and that single parentlhood is not an issue to be ignored.

  

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AnnieOakley
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Thu Apr-14-05 06:15 PM

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190. "Her album went plat, yo"
In response to Reply # 0


          

just FYI.

-AO
Please donate. I'm not the only one who's dying.
http://www.organdonor.gov/

  

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zewari
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Thu Apr-14-05 07:41 PM

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192. "wow... good for her"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          


«SiG»
“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice."
-Qur’an 4:135

  

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Nettrice
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61747 posts
Thu Apr-14-05 10:05 PM

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193. "Ha!"
In response to Reply # 190
Thu Apr-14-05 10:06 PM by Nettrice

  

          

That's the really the bottom line isn't it? I am not into the song (or her music) but apparently a lot of people like her as an artist. Good for her.

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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