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Subject: "france- 35 hour working week under scrutiny." This topic is locked.
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tohunga
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Fri Feb-04-05 04:36 PM

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"france- 35 hour working week under scrutiny."


  

          

i hope it doesn't change... this was a fucking great idea that the rest of the world should catch up on.

(if you don't know- France adopted a 35 hour working week, with no loss of pay, in 1998, when they were under a socialist government. it was seen as a way to cut unemployment, as well as giving workers more time to, y'know, have a life)

but now..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4225139.stm

"The French government is proposing plans to ease the rules on the country's 35-hour working week.

However, a recent poll shows that the majority of French workers do not want to work longer hours.

The French parliament was due to begin on Tuesday afternoon a three-day debate on a bill that would relax the rules.

The reform would allow workers to put in more than 35 hours a week in return for more pay if they reach a collective accord with their company and union.

The government says this reform is aimed at stimulating the economy and creating jobs.

French workers have been demonstrating over the past weeks in protest against the government's plans.

A recent poll showed that three-quarters of the French workforce want to stick to the current 35-hour working week, brought in by the last Socialist government.

Only 18% say they want to work longer hours. But French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin says action is vital to keep the French economy competitive and to create more jobs.

Countering unemployment

Some companies here say the limits on overtime and the working week are making them uncompetitive, even though French employees are more productive per hour than their American or British counterparts.

French trade unions fear that the bill being debated in parliament is the first step towards abolishing the 35-hour week and they are threatening bigger demonstrations this Saturday.

But the government insists that all it wants is to offer companies and workers more flexibility, allowing those who want to work more and earn more to do so.

Yet the real problem facing France is unemployment, running at almost 10% of the workforce. The Socialists theory that shorter hours would create millions of new jobs did not live up to its promise.

Some employers in France complain that high costs and rigid rules on hiring and firing staff still make them reluctant to employ new workers and that some change is vital if France's economy is to remain competitive. "

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
was talking about this other day in class
Feb 04th 2005
1
open letter to erykah badu
Feb 04th 2005
2
keep your bullshit out of my post.
Feb 05th 2005
3
wow interesting
Feb 05th 2005
4
7 years and 75% support
Feb 05th 2005
7
how did these people ever run an empire?
Feb 05th 2005
5
they had a certain...
Feb 05th 2005
6
RE: they had a certain...
Feb 06th 2005
14
      bomb
Feb 07th 2005
15
           i demand an apology.
Feb 07th 2005
16
           i'm not french tho
Feb 07th 2005
17
           that's even worse
Feb 07th 2005
22
                the sneakiest thing is that at first
Feb 08th 2005
23
                     and they killed a hippy!
Feb 08th 2005
24
                          whoa - they bombed it IN New Zealand?
Feb 08th 2005
27
                               we got some militant hippies
Feb 08th 2005
28
opportunism
Feb 06th 2005
8
the trade unions got soft...
Feb 06th 2005
9
what a bunch of lazy bastards
Feb 06th 2005
10
well, duh.
Feb 06th 2005
11
lol
Feb 06th 2005
12
lazy bastards or not, read the part of
Mar 04th 2005
30
yeh ..... thats plain lazy ....
Feb 06th 2005
13
RE: france- 35 hour working week under scrutiny.
Feb 07th 2005
18
RE: france- 35 hour working week under scrutiny.
Feb 07th 2005
19
read up on BMW and you'll find out that
Feb 07th 2005
20
RE: read up on BMW and you'll find out that
Feb 07th 2005
21
yeah, i think BMW shows the downside though
Feb 08th 2005
25
      RE: yeah, i think BMW shows the downside though
Feb 08th 2005
26
That should be obvious.
Mar 03rd 2005
29

thembi
Member since Feb 05th 2003
9009 posts
Fri Feb-04-05 06:40 PM

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1. "was talking about this other day in class"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


the world is a toll-free toilet-george clinton

  

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chrisdefendorf
Member since Dec 27th 2004
1731 posts
Fri Feb-04-05 10:20 PM

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2. "open letter to erykah badu"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

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tohunga
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32612 posts
Sat Feb-05-05 05:10 AM

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3. "keep your bullshit out of my post."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          


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art.design.comics.blog.etc

  

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rawsouthpaw
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Sat Feb-05-05 09:18 AM

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4. "wow interesting"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i had no idea about the 35 hr week. i'd be really surprised if it holds in an increasingly globalized/corporatized world.




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tohunga
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Sat Feb-05-05 04:48 PM

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7. "7 years and 75% support"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

godspeed, my friendly garlic chompers

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40thStreetBlack
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Sat Feb-05-05 01:11 PM

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5. "how did these people ever run an empire?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

seriously.

--------------------
The People's Champ


<----- Long Live The King

  

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tohunga
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Sat Feb-05-05 04:38 PM

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6. "they had a certain..."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

..oh, what's the french for.. i don't know what?

i blame it on the food myself

they did colonise some pretty weird spots though.. i mean. mali and new caledonia? eeexcellent fucking choice there, boys. one's mostly desert, the other is an island surrounded by the 2nd biggest coral reef in the world.

i have to have some respect for the french though, because the first girl i kissed was a french melanesian girl...oowee.
but at the same time, the only terrorist attack on new zealand- hell , the only attack on new zealand by anyone- was the french blowing up a Greenpeace ship in the 80s. and they continued nuclear testing in the south pacific until the mid 90s, along with *cough* you guys...
eh.
mon dieu

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40thStreetBlack
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Sun Feb-06-05 11:35 AM

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14. "RE: they had a certain..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

>i blame it on the food myself

I think it's the wine, mostly. It's about what you'd expect from a nation of drowsy winos.

>they did colonise some pretty weird spots though.. i mean.
>mali and new caledonia? eeexcellent fucking choice there,
>boys. one's mostly desert, the other is an island surrounded
>by the 2nd biggest coral reef in the world.

Well the Brits grabbed up most of the good spots, so the French had to make due with what was left. But the French did get Tahiti though, so it wasn't all bad for them.

>i have to have some respect for the french though, because
>the first girl i kissed was a french melanesian
>girl...oowee.

Well French women, sure. But French men are another story.

>but at the same time, the only terrorist attack on new
>zealand- hell , the only attack on new zealand by anyone-
>was the french blowing up a Greenpeace ship in the 80s.

They actually fired on an unarmed ship? Wow, that's fucked up.

>they continued nuclear testing in the south pacific until
>the mid 90s, along with *cough* you guys...

Hmm, I think the US stopped testing in the Pacific before that.

--------------------
The People's Champ


<----- Long Live The King

  

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afrobongo
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Mon Feb-07-05 01:43 AM

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15. "bomb"
In response to Reply # 14
Mon Feb-07-05 01:45 AM

          

>They actually fired on an unarmed ship? Wow, that's fucked
>up.

i mean 2 special agents swam and put a bomb under the ship
in a port

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tohunga
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Mon Feb-07-05 02:43 AM

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16. "i demand an apology."
In response to Reply # 15
Mon Feb-07-05 02:43 AM

  

          

..nah, don't worry,i've already had one, lol

that's just funny. we're a country of hippies

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afrobongo
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Mon Feb-07-05 09:05 AM

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17. "i'm not french tho"
In response to Reply # 16


          


lol
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40thStreetBlack
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Mon Feb-07-05 01:32 PM

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22. "that's even worse"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>i mean 2 special agents swam and put a bomb under the ship
>in a port

That's some sneaky-ass shit.

-------------------------------------------------------------
"Wearily on I go, pain and misery my only companions. And vast
intelligence, of course. And infinite sorrow. I despise you all."


<----- Long Live The King

  

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afrobongo
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Tue Feb-08-05 04:33 AM

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23. "the sneakiest thing is that at first"
In response to Reply # 22


          


France try NOT TO CLAIM those agents.

just like in movies...

Actually the movie "Agents Secrets" with Monica Bellucci and Vincent Cassel is much inspired by that story...
hell
Bellucci met the female agent who was involved in the Rainbow Warrior attack to work on her acting..
______________________________

*TWINNING*


  

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tohunga
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Tue Feb-08-05 04:53 AM

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24. "and they killed a hippy!"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

those bastards!
http://archive.greenpeace.org/comms/photos/rw37.gif


http://archive.greenpeace.org/comms/photos/rw44.gif


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art.design.comics.blog.etc

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Tue Feb-08-05 01:14 PM

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27. "whoa - they bombed it IN New Zealand?"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

What THEE fuck is up with that bullshit?

-------------------------------------------------------------
"Wearily on I go, pain and misery my only companions. And vast
intelligence, of course. And infinite sorrow. I despise you all."


<----- Long Live The King

  

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tohunga
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Tue Feb-08-05 02:22 PM

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28. "we got some militant hippies"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          


and our government is anti-nuclear (no nuclear powered ships or subs allowed in our waters, even, somethig which US govts have always been angry about), so we supported the actions of Greenpeace and other protestors when they were protesting french test at Mururoa Atoll

here's the story:
http://archive.greenpeace.org/comms/rw/pkbomb.html


or if you're lazy, here's the interesting bits-
As it emerged that the bombing was a deliberate act of sabotage, there was little doubt in Greenpeace minds who was responsible. Two days after the bombing the French Embassy in Wellington issued a statement echoing the flat denials emanating from Paris. 'In no way is France involved,' it declared. 'The French Government doesn't deal with its opponents in such ways.' But within a few days police had arrested French secret service agents Alain Mafart and Dominique Prieur as they tried to return their van to an Auckland hire company. While they were held in custody, the charter yacht Ouvea, carrying another team of agents implicated in the bombing, sailed to Norfolk Island and then disappeared a few days out to sea heading north for Tahiti. Her crew was reportedly picked up by the French nuclear submarine Rubis, which turned up in Tahiti on July 22 - the first time a French nuclear submarine had been known to enter the South Pacific.


...Following claims in the London Sunday Times that President Mitterrand had known of the bombing plan, and implicitly, therefore had authorised it, French Defence Minister Charles Hernu resigned and Admiral Pierre Lacoste, director of the DGSE, France's intelligence and covert action bureau, was sacked. Within days Prime Minister Fabius admitted French secret service agents had bombed the Rainbow Warrior under orders. It was, said New Zealand Prime Minister David Lange, nothing more than 'a sordid act of international state-backed terrorism'.



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afrobongo
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Sun Feb-06-05 01:52 AM

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8. "opportunism"
In response to Reply # 5


          



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afrobongo
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Sun Feb-06-05 03:02 AM

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9. "the trade unions got soft..."
In response to Reply # 0


          


i mean a pussy ass protest and that's all ?

There have been weeks-long GENERAL strikes for less than that !
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foxnesn
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Sun Feb-06-05 04:03 AM

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10. "what a bunch of lazy bastards"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

no wonder you guys like socialism. you simply dont want to work.

  

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tohunga
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Sun Feb-06-05 04:54 AM

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11. "well, duh."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


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foxnesn
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Sun Feb-06-05 08:16 AM

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12. "lol"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

!

  

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Jon
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Fri Mar-04-05 04:57 AM

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30. "lazy bastards or not, read the part of"
In response to Reply # 10
Fri Mar-04-05 04:57 AM

          

"hitchhikers guide to the galaxy" where douglas adams is comparing why humans think they're the most intelligent species on earth to why dolphins think they claim that title. then replace the word "dolphins" with "french".

  

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Deepster
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Sun Feb-06-05 09:45 AM

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13. "yeh ..... thats plain lazy ...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

... 35 hours a week is very weak .... how are they going to compete in a globalized capitalistic economy with that kinda attitude? .... I can understand they want fair working hours, etc ... which makes perfect sense ..... but there's nothing wrong with working 40-45 hour weeks ...... 35 hours a week seems like very little work ...

> Sig Starts HEre <

http://www.singleparentconnection.net

OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT 2008!!

  

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AlbertInPhila
Member since Dec 03rd 2004
56 posts
Mon Feb-07-05 11:03 AM

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18. "RE: france- 35 hour working week under scrutiny."
In response to Reply # 0


          

i work at glaxosmithkline in pennsylvania and we only have a 35-hour work week.

i may be wrong buy i believe most europeans also have an extra month of vacation. beyond what one would earn through seniority, etc....

  

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foxnesn
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Mon Feb-07-05 11:22 AM

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19. "RE: france- 35 hour working week under scrutiny."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

is it because glaxosmithkline is a european owned company and the rules just carry over to you guys?

  

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afrobongo
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Mon Feb-07-05 11:57 AM

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20. "read up on BMW and you'll find out that"
In response to Reply # 0


          


more hours DOESNT equal competitivity
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foxnesn
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Mon Feb-07-05 12:32 PM

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21. "RE: read up on BMW and you'll find out that"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

certainly if a company can produce the same while decreases work hours then its a good idea for the company. it keeps employees happy and working hard.

  

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tohunga
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Tue Feb-08-05 04:57 AM

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25. "yeah, i think BMW shows the downside though"
In response to Reply # 21
Tue Feb-08-05 04:58 AM

  

          

for a manufacturing company that has to seriously compete on an international level, there's always gonna be other industrial countries that can undercut them (countries in SE asia, and china, for example) because of the pro-employer laws there... as opposed to the 35 hour week, which is pro-employee.

but hey, if we can't reap the benefits of living in a post-industrial society, then what the hell are we all trying to achieve here?
hehe

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foxnesn
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Tue Feb-08-05 12:11 PM

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26. "RE: yeah, i think BMW shows the downside though"
In response to Reply # 25
Tue Feb-08-05 12:12 PM

  

          

>for a manufacturing company that has to seriously compete on
>an international level, there's always gonna be other
>industrial countries that can undercut them (countries in SE
>asia, and china, for example) because of the pro-employer
>laws there... as opposed to the 35 hour week, which is
>pro-employee.

competition is good. especially international competition. my only problem is with international companies who are subsidized by their govt and use that as leverage against a private corporation. for example, DHL is heavily subsidized by the german govt and they compete directly with fedex/ups and of course our own govt postal service. its not easy for fedex/ups to compete and stay profitable but they somehow manage to every year with very little govt assistance. not to mentional DHL apparently loses money every year.
>
>but hey, if we can't reap the benefits of living in a
>post-industrial society, then what the hell are we all
>trying to achieve here?
>hehe

good question. at some point we have to wonder what all our hard work has accomplished besides living longer healthier and for the most part richer lives. you would think someday all our hard work would pay off and we can chill out on a beach with drinks while our robots do all the work. of course, some people love ot work and get a lot out of running a business and producing goods and offering services.

  

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FireBrand
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Thu Mar-03-05 06:40 PM

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29. "That should be obvious."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

The happier the worker, the more productive they will be.

******************************

______________________________
"...I'm telling ya these walls are
funny. First you hate 'em, then
you get used to 'em. Enough,
time passes, you get so you
depend on 'em. That's
"institutionalized."

Red, The Shawshank Redemption.







_________________
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"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black—at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

  

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