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zewari
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7113 posts
Mon Jan-31-05 09:42 PM

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"U.S. prepares invasion of Venezuela"


  

          




BUENOS AIRES, Jan. 27 (Xinhuanet) -- The United States is preparing a future invasion of Venezuela to control the petroleum of the South American country as it did in Iraq, said Venezuela's acting ambassador to Paraguay, Elmer Nino.

Nino, cited Thursday by local Paraguayan daily ABC Color, said the present diplomatic crisis between Venezuela and Colombia was created by the United States as part of its future plans for an invasion.

The Venezuelan oil reserves have a strategic value as they will last 350 years at the present exploitation level, the diplomat was quoted as saying.

Venezuela is Latin America's second largest oil producer behind Mexico and the principal oil exporter in the region.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez froze his country's diplomatic and commercial ties with Colombia in early January to protest whathe called Colombia's "kidnapping" of a rebel leader in Caracas, the Venezuelan capital, which he considered as a violation of Venezuelan national sovereignty.

The government of Colombia rejected Chavez's demand to make apologies to end the dispute.

With respect to Paraguayan President Nicanor Duarte's position on the Caracas-Bogota crisis, the ambassador said it has been neutral.



_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: U.S. prepares invasion of Venezuela
Feb 01st 2005
1
this is sheer folly for England & the US
Feb 01st 2005
2
BUSH & BLAIR ARE THE HOUSE NEGROES
Feb 01st 2005
3
RE: BUSH & BLAIR ARE THE HOUSE NEGROES
Feb 01st 2005
4
i wouldn't be suprised if you work for the government
Feb 14th 2005
5
Washington campaigns to frustrate sale of Russian weapons to Venezuela
Feb 14th 2005
6
is there any other source for this?
Feb 14th 2005
7
Better source please?
Feb 14th 2005
8
the main stream media doesn't have much to
Feb 15th 2005
9
RE: the main stream media doesn't have much to
Feb 15th 2005
10
      their citizens have more than enough reasons to hate US policy
Feb 15th 2005
11
      RE: their citizens have more than enough reasons to hate US policy
Feb 15th 2005
13
           don't mix the issues
Feb 15th 2005
22
                RE: don't mix the issues
Feb 16th 2005
23
                     you are operating on PURE ASSUMPTION
Feb 16th 2005
28
                          comeon now
Feb 16th 2005
30
                               i strongly recommend you watch...
Feb 16th 2005
31
                                    ill watch it
Feb 16th 2005
33
                                         i believe so... or if you have netflix, you can get it from there also
Feb 16th 2005
34
                                              i have it...
Feb 16th 2005
35
      Chavez is not a dictator!
Feb 16th 2005
29
it's safe to say that the title is entirely assumption
Feb 15th 2005
12
RE: it's safe to say that the title is entirely assumption
Feb 15th 2005
14
where's your proof he did that?
Feb 15th 2005
16
      thats my point
Feb 16th 2005
24
attempted coup is an act of war
Feb 15th 2005
15
This has been on the table for sometime....
Feb 15th 2005
17
you have to prepare...
Feb 15th 2005
18
good lookin' out
Feb 15th 2005
19
The Revolution Will Not be Televised...
Feb 16th 2005
26
      RE: The Revolution Will Not be Televised...
Feb 16th 2005
27
Here is another.....
Feb 15th 2005
20
Once again....
Feb 15th 2005
21
the U.S. tried to fix the election....
Feb 16th 2005
25
damn
Feb 16th 2005
32

Fiver
Member since Oct 18th 2004
1090 posts
Tue Feb-01-05 05:58 AM

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1. "RE: U.S. prepares invasion of Venezuela"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

didn't venezuela just join the BRIC Alliance?

i don't think they'll invade, Putin might have something to say about it.

grendel has had an accident, so may you all.

  

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chrisdefendorf
Member since Dec 27th 2004
1731 posts
Tue Feb-01-05 06:21 AM

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2. "this is sheer folly for England & the US"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

beasue when the Black Revolution comes, ANYBODY WHO'S AGAINST ANY KIND OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION will be the first to go. Some loser will put a bomb in Tony Blair's or George Bush's office.

And sadly & Tragically, it probably won't do much to stop the machine.

Put your attention on something else happeing, my brothers & sisters. Put the power in yourselves and your communities.

One of my best frineds, problably my Bestest frined besides THE ONE is venezualean .

You think I'm dark? I'm the OLD MAN of Darkness!

Put the power not in this Homoerotic rape of Black people for at least five minutes in your day and channel it into you having a good supper, with harm to none.

BUSH & Blair are the Fiield NEGROES. YOu can be a NW kind of Master, that allows the Field negroes to ue their true masculine power (not the phony bigger is better MalE Chauvinist), the focus, to get the Whte Man off their land before he's even there andy more than he already is.

You can change this, by being this new kind of Master. You certainly dont have to, to have other people as Masters and Gurus is fine, but ultimately dont'you want to be our own Master?

So be a new kind of master. Put your attention on what you want. More & More.

But don't worry, bitches! FIELD NEGROES can handle the shit if you stop your precious worrying about whether or not they can take care ofd themselves. Let the House Negroes either choose to become Spiritual (and thus, people), r let the Field negroes push them out of the way, by any means necessary.

Please?

(That was a sammple of "the last" "Please" uuttered by De Las Soul Producer Prince Paul on the song "take it OF" on the De Lasoul tape (I'm oldschool, bitches) "3Feet high & rising" /

So listen, how we gonna make the Black nation "RISE"?

BY ALLOWING IT TO. WE don't have to CAUSE it to rise, it Wants to rise. The flip side of reality creation is to allow something to happen, as opposed to casue it. For instance, a Rape victim didn't casue herself or Himslef(it does happen) to be raped. But they did ALLOW it. I'm speaking of adults here, not children. ALL kids are victims, casue they dont understan dthe positive & negative impact they have.

And as far you Mothers out there, you are excluding from my "No Worryinng" suggestion. What can I say, I choose my battles. This one I do not choose to battle you on becasue as a general rule:

"MOTHERS WORRY!!!!!!!!!!!'
Can't you hear at least one right now worrying if she worries?

Forgive yourselves, bitches! Go get some ice cream ,wih extra chocolate syrup. And White choclolate aint chocoalate.
your brains release endorphins which make you feel happy. So run, go get some chocolate and inbox me

I love it!


NIGHTLY REPORTS ON MY
OKAYPLAYER EXPLORATIONS on my
blog (updated during the day, and
then finished at 11PM EST)

PEACE,
Christopher (the name means
"Raspberry")

Google "Chris Defendorf ",
"Christopher Defendorf" and/or
chrisdefendorf
remember to put in quotes.
http://profiles.myspace.com/users/
10450673

you don't need to know my sig, because you know my steez. I have left okayplayer and

and and and

you don't need to know.

myspace.com/raspberry

  

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chrisdefendorf
Member since Dec 27th 2004
1731 posts
Tue Feb-01-05 06:24 AM

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3. "BUSH & BLAIR ARE THE HOUSE NEGROES"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

That was a typo.


NIGHTLY REPORTS ON MY
OKAYPLAYER EXPLORATIONS on my
blog (updated during the day, and
then finished at 11PM EST)

PEACE,
Christopher (the name means
"Raspberry")

Google "Chris Defendorf ",
"Christopher Defendorf" and/or
chrisdefendorf
remember to put in quotes.
http://profiles.myspace.com/users/
10450673

you don't need to know my sig, because you know my steez. I have left okayplayer and

and and and

you don't need to know.

myspace.com/raspberry

  

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AquamansRevenge
Member since Oct 27th 2004
656 posts
Tue Feb-01-05 08:04 AM

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4. "RE: BUSH & BLAIR ARE THE HOUSE NEGROES"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Long live Chavez!!!

  

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zewari
Charter member
7113 posts
Mon Feb-14-05 01:18 AM

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5. "i wouldn't be suprised if you work for the government"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


__________________________

www.supportblackowned.org

  

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zewari
Charter member
7113 posts
Mon Feb-14-05 01:20 AM

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6. "Washington campaigns to frustrate sale of Russian weapons to Venezuela"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



The operation complies with all international regulations. However, the US State Department lodged a formal protest with Russia in which demonizes President Chavez as a leftist agitator and a Castro-styled dictator. Moscow and Caracas rejected allegations.

As anticipated by PRAVDA.Ru in December last year, Washington is campaigning to frustrate the sale of Russian weapons to Venezuela -a large operation estimated in $ 5 billion-, despite the deal complies with all international regulations. On Thursday, the US State Department made public that it was "troubled" by Russia's military cooperation with the South American nation, suggesting that the arms could be used to aid leftist guerrillas in Latin America.

The arms pact announced last year by Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez would give the South American OPEC member 100,000 AK-47 automatic rifles and 40 MI-35 helicopters. Venezuela is also evaluating Russian MiG-29 fighters as possible replacements for the old US F-16s.

The US opposition to the operation provoked reactions in Moscow and Caracas. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told Interfax that the arms delivery "is a matter of cooperation between the two countries". "Our bilateral cooperation does not go beyond any international norms and obligations. There is nothing to comment on," the minister was quoted as saying.

Interfax also quoted Moscow officials stating that Russia evaluates Washington's statements as unfounded and biased. "Moscow was surprised to hear about the U.S. State Department's concerns in relation to the possible shipment of Kalashnikov assault rifles from Russia to Venezuela," the source is quoted as saying.

In Washington, the Venezuela's ambassador to the United States, Bernardo Alvarez, said there appeared to be a campaign to discredit his country under way featuring critical media coverage attributed to unnamed officials. "It's clear that there is an orchestrated campaign. I don't know why, but the thing is to create the impression that we are a hostile country, a terrorist country, a pariah state," Alvarez said.

In fact, the US say Chavez is trying to prop up leftist uprisings across the continent to spread his leftist "Bolivarian Revolution" to other nations. Washington has been also hostile to Chavez"s ties with Castro"s regime Cuba and his personal friendship with the Cuban leader.

"Venezuela's plans to purchase various types and large quantities of weapons are extremely troubling," said State Department spokesman Lou Fintor. "Our concerns about these weapons purchases are heightened by Venezuela's tolerance for groups such as the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), the Colombian terrorist group the National Liberation Army, and others."

However, the US has repeatedly failed to probe allegations and not a single country in Latin America has supported US statements. What is certain is that since 2000, Washington has spent up to $3 billion in "military aid" to Venezuela"s neighbour, Colombia, to support an unsuccessful offensive against leftist rebels. It is also a fact that almost 1,000 US officers are training Colombian armed forces, in a move that breaks the balance of military power in the region. It is also a fact that the Washington- backed Colombian army has close links with the notorious far right death squads, accused of crimes against humanity by the United Nations, the Organization of American States and, paradoxically, by the US Congress more than once. It is also a fact that tons of US weapons have been found in possession of these death squads after being used to butch poor farmers in Colombia"s jungles.

Apart from this, the US media quoted recent intelligence reports stating that Chavez is moving to an authoritarian regime and to a closer cooperation with Cuba. Allegations about Venezuela"s authoritarian regime, come only six months after President Chavez accepted and won a recall referendum against him, validated by the OAS and the Carter"s Institute, among other international observers.

As for the cooperation with Cuba, PRAVDA.Ru is in position to confirm that about 20,000 -5,000 more than the figure quoted in CIA"s report- Cuban doctors and teachers are working in Venezuela in health and alphabetization programs. Cuba has similar deals with other nations in Africa and Latin America, which do not attract the attention of US spies.

US State Department statement came only a week after Venezuela announced its intention to shift its oil sales strategy to diversify oil exports away from the United States in favor of other nations in Latin America and Asia. It is also rumoured that Venezuela plans to sell its oil refineries in the USA because they are unprofitable. Oil rich Venezuela is world's fifth oil exporter and responsible of 15% of US crude imports.


_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


__________________________

www.supportblackowned.org

  

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foxnesn
Charter member
5240 posts
Mon Feb-14-05 05:23 AM

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7. "is there any other source for this?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

is it just propaganda?

  

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NoShelter
Charter member
8725 posts
Mon Feb-14-05 10:49 AM

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8. "Better source please?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Can you give us a better source than a newspaper from China, a country that barely has a free press and only limited Internet access?

  

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mambo_ndimi
Member since Nov 10th 2004
916 posts
Tue Feb-15-05 01:30 AM

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9. "the main stream media doesn't have much to"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

say on this one, but undeniably it is a critical issue to the U.S administration. here's a reuters link
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N12383234.htm

though its mainly quoting castro
also http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/archive/s_303563.html
though has no quoted sources


"Heaven lasts, earth endures"

"mista who're you?"

"To find the most corrupt, vile, self-inflated and thieving brown man you need look no further than the white man's pocket" Tuloko

"Arise Comrades, and free yourselves from the tyranny of objects." Malevich

  

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foxnesn
Charter member
5240 posts
Tue Feb-15-05 01:39 AM

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10. "RE: the main stream media doesn't have much to"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>say on this one, but undeniably it is a critical issue to
>the U.S administration. here's a reuters link
>http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N12383234.htm

this article shows no proof that the US plans to attack venezuela
>
>though its mainly quoting castro
>also
>http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/archive/s_303563.html
>though has no quoted sources

this article also shows no proof the US plans to attack venezuela.

sounds like chavez and his communist dictator buddies are creating reasons for their 'citizens' to hate america.



  

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zewari
Charter member
7113 posts
Tue Feb-15-05 03:20 AM

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11. "their citizens have more than enough reasons to hate US policy"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

but its interesting that you likened political opposition to hatred for the american public. most politically active people in the world are intelligent enough to separate the actions of the american government from its people

_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


__________________________

www.supportblackowned.org

  

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foxnesn
Charter member
5240 posts
Tue Feb-15-05 01:56 PM

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13. "RE: their citizens have more than enough reasons to hate US policy"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

yes im sure the venezuelan citizens love having all their land redistributed so that chavez can have ultimate control over the entire land. dont let the communist propoganda fool you, this isnt about giving power back to the people, its about chavez stealing rich people's land and taxing the shit outta other poor citizens he hands it over too so that he can have control over them. and the last time i checked, political activists such as al-queda were killing innocent people who have nothing to do with our govt.

  

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zewari
Charter member
7113 posts
Tue Feb-15-05 05:41 PM

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22. "don't mix the issues"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

>yes im sure the venezuelan citizens love having all their
>land redistributed so that chavez can have ultimate control
>over the entire land.

the people have clearly benefitted from Chavez's leadership... that's why he WON A LANDSLIDE VICTORY IN A DEMOCRATIC ELECTION. so are you going to play the role of benevolent American colonialist and decide the Venezuelans don't know what's good for Venezuela?

>dont let the communist propoganda fool
>you, this isnt about giving power back to the people, its
>about chavez stealing rich people's land and taxing the shit
>outta other poor citizens he hands it over too so that he
>can have control over them.

question for you... what's the Venezuelan tax rate? and you talk like Chavez is a dictator or an absolute monarchy- which is far from the truth.

>and the last time i checked,
>political activists such as al-queda were killing innocent
>people who have nothing to do with our govt.

we're talking about Venezuela, not al-Qaeda... and even al-Qaeda is a reactionary group that sees itself reacting "in-kind" to US aggression

_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


__________________________

www.supportblackowned.org

  

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foxnesn
Charter member
5240 posts
Wed Feb-16-05 12:53 AM

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23. "RE: don't mix the issues"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>>yes im sure the venezuelan citizens love having all their
>>land redistributed so that chavez can have ultimate control
>>over the entire land.
>
>the people have clearly benefitted from Chavez's
>leadership... that's why he WON A LANDSLIDE VICTORY IN A
>DEMOCRATIC ELECTION. so are you going to play the role of
>benevolent American colonialist and decide the Venezuelans
>don't know what's good for Venezuela?

ever heard of a fixed election? the guy is a military leader. vote against him and you get jailed. and wasnt his last election close to a split.

>>dont let the communist propoganda fool
>>you, this isnt about giving power back to the people, its
>>about chavez stealing rich people's land and taxing the shit
>>outta other poor citizens he hands it over too so that he
>>can have control over them.
>
>question for you... what's the Venezuelan tax rate? and you
>talk like Chavez is a dictator or an absolute monarchy-
>which is far from the truth.

so imprisoning citizens without question is not dictating the law? and asking what the tex rate is in a socialist company is like asking a janitor to dismantle an atomic bomb. basically if you work for the govt you dont have to pay income tax but if you work for a private oil business, as the majority of people do, its something like 17 percent royalty tax and close to 68 percent income tax. check countrywatch.com.


>
>>and the last time i checked,
>>political activists such as al-queda were killing innocent
>>people who have nothing to do with our govt.
>
>we're talking about Venezuela, not al-Qaeda... and even
>al-Qaeda is a reactionary group that sees itself reacting
>"in-kind" to US aggression

and how is that seperating the acts of the govt from its people?

  

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zewari
Charter member
7113 posts
Wed Feb-16-05 08:42 AM

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28. "you are operating on PURE ASSUMPTION"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

in previous discussions on Venezuela, you clearly showed you knew nothing about any of its political dynamics or its history. Chavez is not in power because of his control of the military, but in spite of the military. he has massive popular support among his people and the lower brass of the Venezuelan military. he does nothing to stiffle the obvious lies that the privatized media continuously spews about him and is much more accessible to the Venezuelan public than any american official- which is far more democratic than the US could ever be

_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


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foxnesn
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Wed Feb-16-05 10:31 AM

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30. "comeon now"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>in previous discussions on Venezuela, you clearly showed you
>knew nothing about any of its political dynamics or its
>history.

yea and you are showing that you know how much about it now?

Chavez is not in power because of his control of
>the military, but in spite of the military.

could you please remind me in which way chavez took control of the venezuelan govt?

he has massive
>popular support among his people and the lower brass of the
>Venezuelan military.

all contrived STATE CONTROLLED propaganda.

he does nothing to stiffle the obvious
>lies that the privatized media continuously spews about him

lol!!! obviously if his own citizens are against him surely there is some merit in it since as you said, he isnt a dictator. LMAO!! dude you just contradicted yourself hardcore.

>and is much more accessible to the Venezuelan public than
>any american official- which is far more democratic than the
>US could ever be

yea if you count imprisoning citizens based on rumors of being against him then yea, he is much more accessible.

  

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zewari
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Wed Feb-16-05 10:33 AM

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31. "i strongly recommend you watch..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

"The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"

_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


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foxnesn
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Wed Feb-16-05 05:01 PM

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33. "ill watch it"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

is it something i can go out and rent?

  

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zewari
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Wed Feb-16-05 05:13 PM

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34. "i believe so... or if you have netflix, you can get it from there also"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

i'm not sure if blockbuster type venues would carry it or not, but don't they order DVDs they don't have in stock these days?

_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


__________________________

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haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
16194 posts
Wed Feb-16-05 11:28 PM

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35. "i have it..."
In response to Reply # 34


          

if anyone will stream it, i'll send it to them...it doesnt have subtitles though...

_________________________

  

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jerzCenator
Member since Jul 22nd 2002
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Wed Feb-16-05 09:11 AM

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29. "Chavez is not a dictator!"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Whether you like the man or not, he was DEMOCRATICALLY elected by the MAJORITY of Venezuelans (not the 10% who had been ruling and got fat off the profits from the Oil company and Agricultural industry while 80% of the people lived below the poverty level). Why do you think the attempted coup in 2002 (that had possible U.S. backing) failed? Because the PEOPLE mobilized and came to his side. MILLIONS of Venezuelans demonstrated to get their democratically elected President back. (I won't tell you all the "democratic" policies the fake regime tried to implement in Chavez's absence...if you wanna more about the incidents see "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"). Since Chavez's administration, educational policies have been put in action to increase the literacy rate, and 20,000 cuban doctors have come to country to work for FREE in cities and towns where Venezuelan doctors have never gone before. What people don't understand about the land reform is that he is doing it LEGALLY, according to the Venezuelan constitution. All he wants to do is see if the landowners have STOLEN the land from the original small farmers, find out how much farmable land is not being used or wasted, and take back what doesn't belong. This all has to do with the previous reforms in the past, and correcting their errors. He isn't going to just take the land and kick out the owners/corporations that presently possess it and kick them out (although he probably should). It remains to be seen if Chavez is really on the people's side, or if he's gonna pull the ole okey-doke. But the majority of Venezuelans are behind him. And if he effs up, the people will be there to remove him from office.

What I don't understand is why people in the U.S. believe we have the right to impose our will on another country, are y'all imperialists or something? I know why the American government wants to go in...to get that oil! Maybe too many people here have fallen into the mainstream media trap. A newspaper like the New York Post or Washington Post has as much credibility as the cited Chinese newspaper. Time has shown that mainstream media outlets have LIED a lot more than any independent media source that I know of. Regardless, you have to do your own research, but understand it comes down to what the people want. We should not allow the U.S. goverment to infringe on another nation's sovereignty.

One last thing for everyone who seems to hate equality, fairness and justice for the people - Socialism IS Democracy.

'The more emotion I put into it, the harder I rock' - O.C

  

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Eusebio
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Tue Feb-15-05 01:34 PM

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12. "it's safe to say that the title is entirely assumption"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so stop reacting like it says they're gonna attack tomorrow.

that said, i'ma ride for chavez if anything goes down.

******************************

I am I be

  

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foxnesn
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Tue Feb-15-05 01:57 PM

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14. "RE: it's safe to say that the title is entirely assumption"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>so stop reacting like it says they're gonna attack tomorrow.
>
>that said, i'ma ride for chavez if anything goes down.

so you are going to go down to venezuela and enlist in his army where he jails his own citizens who have broken no laws and kill others who he believes are against him without any evidence? have fun with that...

  

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zewari
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Tue Feb-15-05 04:09 PM

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16. "where's your proof he did that?"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

and how is your desire for "better sources" restricted to one side?

_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


__________________________

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foxnesn
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Wed Feb-16-05 12:56 AM

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24. "thats my point"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

you can qoute a source and i can quote a source. we can back and forth all day and what will it accompish? nothing...

  

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zewari
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Tue Feb-15-05 04:07 PM

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15. "attempted coup is an act of war"
In response to Reply # 12
Tue Feb-15-05 04:09 PM

  

          

and what happened in haiti was an act of war too

EDIT: Venezuela was one of the countries listed for regime change

_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


__________________________

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tonywashington
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Tue Feb-15-05 05:09 PM

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17. "This has been on the table for sometime...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I printed out an article about this about two years ago about this. Just like they sent troops to protect oil in Niger. I need to find that article it was reported by the AP.

-T
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"rick ross got old african woman swag" (c)nayaa

  

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tonywashington
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Tue Feb-15-05 05:19 PM

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18. "you have to prepare..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

these are signs that something is about to go down. don't know what. damn, i need to find that article.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,688071,00.html

http://www.matrixmasters.com/world/america/venezuela/warvenezuela.shtml

-T
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"rick ross got old african woman swag" (c)nayaa

  

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zewari
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Tue Feb-15-05 05:23 PM

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19. "good lookin' out"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

_¸»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«SiG»¬æ¤º²°¯¯°²º¤æ¬«¸_



“Stand out firmly for Justice as witness before God, even against yourselves, against your kin and against your parents, against people who are rich or poor. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you deviate from Justice. Remember, God is the best of Protectors and well acquainted with all that you do.”
-Qur’an 4:135

"Don't be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there's no poverty to be seen because the poverty's been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don't be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there's no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they'll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces."
--Jean Paul Marat, 18th Century French Visionary (and revolutionary), murdered in his bathtub by Royalist Charlotte Corday


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RiceMoDo
Member since Sep 19th 2002
80 posts
Wed Feb-16-05 05:31 AM

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26. "The Revolution Will Not be Televised..."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

this is a great documentary that documents the brief coup of hugo chavez. the film crew who made it just happened to be in caracas making a movie when the coup went down and were in a unique position to catch it unfolding on film. it shows how the corporate elite's control of ALL the media other than the state TV station (ironic that it's the gov't media that's the most reliable) allowed them to fool people into thinking it was a coup that was wanted and good for the people. they basically kidnapped hugo and flew him to a location where no one could contact him. then they shut down the state tv station and pumped the airwaves full of anti-chavez propaganda. they portrayed the peaceful protesters that marched in the streets because they're elected leader had been kidnapped as dangerous and violent, when in fact they were being provoked by armed snipers taking shots at them.

what's great about the film though is that it has a happy ending. the people wouldn't let it happen and the national guard were loyal to chavez not the business leaders they tried to install. it really shows the power that resides in the people and it shows that those corporate leaders are not invinceable. also it shows the incredible importance of media and who controls the media.

anyway, it's been a year or two since i saw the film, but its truly moving and informative and i would HIGHLY recommend it...


peace

  

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RiceMoDo
Member since Sep 19th 2002
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Wed Feb-16-05 05:47 AM

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27. "RE: The Revolution Will Not be Televised..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

here's an interview with the filmmakers:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=4442

  

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tonywashington
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Tue Feb-15-05 05:28 PM

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20. "Here is another....."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-15-05 05:29 PM

          

that breaks things down.I still cannot find the article that I am talking about. I will have to look through the stuff I printed out.
-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.energybulletin.net/874.html
Published on 29 Jun 2004 by VHeadline.com. Archived on 29 Jun 2004.
Why should the United States care who is the President of Venezuela?

by Karl B. Koth
RELATED NEWS:

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Investment: Curves, Peaks and Dips...
VHeadline.com commentarist Karl B. Koth writes: The recent verbal threats from the imperialist titan made by US sub-secretary of State Robert Noriega and reiterated by Otto Reich recently raise the question of not what the USA is trying to accomplish with its hostility towards Venezuela, but the more important question why.

We know, for example, that the US wishes to get rid of constitutionally-elected President Hugo Chavez Frias, but what precisely is behind this goal is less clear.

Let us first eliminate some of the more obvious perceived reasons behind the US attitude:


1) We know that the claim that Venezuela is undemocratic does not hold water. Venezuela just happens to be one of the models in the Americas for an unsurpassed adherence to democratic constitutional principles and practices. Besides, the US, at least considering their incumbent rascal’s own election four years ago, is no shining example of democracy in action.

2) We know also that charges that President Chavez is “a communist” are as ridiculous as calling George W. Bush an enlightened ruler.

3) We know that the reasons have nothing to do with the allegations that President Chavez is a dictator, since first, the charge is idiotic, and second, the US has never had a problem cozying up to the vilest of tyrants.

4) We also know that the hostility has little to do with controlling the supply of oil to the US, because Venezuela has never considered cutting off that supply. It would not be in its own interest to do so!! One might argue here that the US wants to ensure the supply of oil because of the latent threat from a very successful Chinese economy. However, even were it to control Venezuelan oil production, the pressures on the oil patch are going to increase so drastically in the near future, that controlling one country’s output would not help either. Still, that is not a good argument since maintaining good relations with Venezuela would be the far cheaper and easier way of ensuring that supply.


So, what then is the reason? What is behind the constant manipulation, the virulent hostility, the verbal abuse, and the probable (I admit, not yet proven) support to Colombian paramilitaries who recently invaded the country? I believe that the answer, albeit complicated, is to be found in the interesting thesis constructed by a Californian lawyer by the name of William Clarke, and which, obviously, has not been given wide coverage in the news media . I say interesting, because this plausible and well-constructed analysis allows us inter alia to understand primarily the real reasons behind the attack on Iraq, as well the hostility towards Iran and North Korea, the so-called Axis of Evil. What we are dealing with, in fact, is geo-politics in its most serious strategic implications!

The Clark Thesis : Clark’s thesis was first made public via the Internet about a year ago. He deftly argues that the economic problem plaguing the US at the moment is the financing of a huge external trade deficit (almost $500 billion per annum), not to speak of the total debt, which has reached more than US $7 trillion . His thesis is made more plausible when one considers that other countries, especially China, now hold an economic club over the head of the US because of their holdings of US treasury bills .

But how has the US managed to live so “high off the hog” and run up such a massive debt? Primarily, it has been made possible by the use of the US dollar as the favored petro-currency. In other words, all oil bought and sold on the world market is done through the exchange of the commodity for US dollars, allowing the US to run this huge deficit. Basically a long-term strategy, it began with a deal struck with Saudi Arabia in the 1970s. Writes Clark:

“According to research by Dr. David Spiro, in 1974 the Nixon administration negotiated assurances from Saudi Arabia to price oil in dollars only, and invest their surplus oil proceeds in U.S. Treasury Bills. In return the U.S. would protect the Saudi regime. According to his book, The Hidden Hand of American Hegemony: Petrodollar Recycling and International Markets, these purchases were done in relative secrecy. These agreements created the phenomenon known as "petrodollar recycling." In effect, global oil consumption via OPEC provides a healthy subsidy to the U.S. economy. Hence, the Europeans created the euro to compete with the dollar as an alternative international reserve currency. Obviously the E.U. would also like oil priced in euros as well, as this would reduce or eliminate their currency risk for oil purchases.”

In January 2003, before the invasion of Iraq, Clark outlined his thesis. Basically, he argued that the attack was due to fears in the US administration that 1) future oil supplies had to be ensured since the arrival of Peak Oil (after which production will begin to decline) was approaching, and 2) it had to keep OPEC from following Iraq’s lead and converting to the Euro as favored petro-currency.


Let’s omit the discussion of Peak Oil, which has been explained fully by Colin J. Campbell.


The petro-currency argument, however, has never, to my own knowledge, been given much exposure by the media. “The Real Reasons,” Clark explains,” for this upcoming war is this administration's goal of preventing further OPEC momentum towards the euro as an oil transaction currency standard, and to secure control of Iraq's oil before the onset of Peak Oil (predicted to occur around 2010) .” Were oil-producing nations to start converting to sales in Euros, the oil-consuming countries would have to sell their US dollar holdings and buy Euros instead. This would have the dramatic effect of causing a crash in the value of the US dollar on world markets (estimated at between 20-40%) and produce massive inflation. The consequence of that would be a run on the markets and a flight of bond and security holders out of the US dollar and into other currencies .

It is interesting to note that the conversion to Euros was precisely what Iraq did in 2002, followed by Iran, where half the central banks assets were converted to Euros in the same year. Effective December 2002, North Korea, although not an oil-producing country, did the same. Just coincidentally these three are part of what the US president called the Axis of Evil. Does it start to make sense? Hell yes!


So what does this have to do with the interference and hostility towards Venezuela?

Why should the US care who is the President there?

The answer is that a president favorable to Washington would be one who did not implement a nationalist Venezuela policy, which is to say doing what it deems right and honorable with its oil production and sales. In other words, a pro-US president would not be making the deals that President Chavez has done, namely swapping oil for commodities and supporting OPEC’s move to the Euro as these actions impinge on the exclusivity of the Petrodollar as intermediary currency in oil transactions. Yes, Venezuela is supporting an OPEC move to switch from the US dollar to the Euro, and that in the foreseeable future . This makes President Chavez anathema in the eyes of the US. But that is not all. He is guilty of even a worse “crime” in the eyes of the US: Venezuela accepts oil-for-service swaps with poor countries, such as Cuba, that don’t have sufficient US dollar reserves with which to buy the oil it desperately needs, effectively avoiding the use of the Petrodollar .

So what does the US plan for Venezuela?

Obviously the answer is the installation of a President favorable to Washington. As in the case of Iraq, the idea is to replace Chavez with a pro-US President; in other words, one who would not implement a nationalist Venezuela policy; and by whatever means.

The coming months leading up to the referendum are going to be the test. If one believes that instigating Colombian paramilitaries to invade Venezuela was the ultimate, then just wait and see.

There is nothing as dangerous as a wounded animal. By invading Iraq, the US embarked on an insane gamble. The entire world is watching the plan backfire, which is why Bush must now travel to “Old Europe,” hat in hand, begging for a bailout. But the lash of the tail of a downed creature can be lethal to smaller beings who get in the way.

Venezuelans: be on your guard. The worst desperate efforts are yet to come.


Karl B. Koth
kkoth@hotmail.com

Dr. Karl B. Koth is former professor of Latin American History at Okanagan University College in Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada. He is the author of Waking the Dictator: Veracruz, the Struggle for Federalism, and the Mexican Revolution, 1870-1927, Calgary, Alberta: University of Calgary Press, 2002. He divides his time between Canada and Brazil.

Otto Reich: Mastermind of the April 2002 coup d'etat against President Hugo Chavez VHeadline.com, June 24, 2004

William Clark, “Revisited-The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War in Iraq: A Macroeconomic and Geostrategic Analysis of the Unspoken Truth.” See also “Oil, the Dollar, and US Prosperity,” Richard Benson, SFGroup, August 8, 2003

“Our $8 trillion headache,” Cincinnati Post (On-Line Edition), 25 Jun 2004


Martin Walker, “U.S. distracted - and the world changed,” UPI, December 26 2003

Ibid. See Spiro, David E., The Hidden Hand of American Hegemony: Petrodollar Recycling and International Markets, Cornell University Press (1999)

Clark, “Revisited”

This is not idle speculation. Writes David R. Francis, “Foreigners own far more of their direct investments (plants, equipment, office buildings) and financial assets than Americans own in other nations.” David R. Francis, “US financial power: a bang and a whimper,” The Christian Science Monitor, 1 Jan. 2004.

Patrick Brethour, “OPEC mulls move toward euro for its pricing of crude oil,” Globe and Mail (Toronto), Tuesday, Jan. 13, 2004, p. B1.

Hazel Henderson, "Beyond Bush's Unilateralism: Another Bi-Polar World or A New Era of Win-Win?" InterPress Service, June 2002, quoted in Clark.

-T
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"rick ross got old african woman swag" (c)nayaa

  

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tonywashington
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23581 posts
Tue Feb-15-05 05:35 PM

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21. "Once again...."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Feb-15-05 05:37 PM

          

I do not know if they are going to invade but you do not do all this and plan on sitting on your hands. Here is another interesting document. http://www.venezuelafoia.info/
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/04/1554235

-T
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"rick ross got old african woman swag" (c)nayaa

  

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tonywashington
Charter member
23581 posts
Wed Feb-16-05 04:15 AM

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25. "the U.S. tried to fix the election...."
In response to Reply # 21


          

that is what this article talks about. Foxnesn you may want to read this.

-T
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"rick ross got old african woman swag" (c)nayaa

  

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GoingPlaces
Member since Feb 25th 2004
736 posts
Wed Feb-16-05 01:29 PM

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32. "damn"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Arrow of God

  

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