Tonight on FOX (where else) people will be opening the tombs of our ancient Egyptian peoples. I'm not cool with this, I feel their spirits need to really be left alone. These are our ancient peoples and I understand that we have curiosities about them, but is this activity really nessasary?
SPEAK!!!!!
~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
after Egyptian history has been so perversely misrepresented it is actually important to unearth and realize all that egyptian history has meant to the world. Unfortunately this will be done at the cost of the integrity of our ancient royalty but then again when you plate your body in gold and have yourself buried in constructions that can be sen from the moon you're bound to be inviting some undesirable attention.
The materialistic arrogance of the Pharoahs of past mitigates the exploitation of peoples today.
Some of you may disagree but when you see the Hot Boys talkin bout platinum you'll get back on your "materialism is bad horse"- thats fine but you better keep your eye open cuz it looks like you're gonna run right into a gold plated pyramid - tell me thats not materialistic... and why you want me to honor them? but Lil Wayne cant get no love.
Did you mean the activity to be the Network and broadcast activity? oh no thats not necessary- i mean I appreciate the opportunity to see these things but all this LIVE NEVER BEFORE SEEN BLAH BLAH BLAH is too much. Im sure they'll be just as memorable as Al Capone's vault.
Right. I understand and appreciate a good archelogical excursion, but all this hooplah? It's right in line with "Who wants to Marry a Multi Millionaire" "Kid Genius's edition of Who's the Smartest Kid in America" "Who wants to be a Millionaire" "Magic Secrets Revealed parts 1-17" "Cops"
So maybe my truer issues are with the network and their programming practices with these "specials"
As a side note. I really enjoy Ally McBeal, Seinfeld and The Simpsons.
But what's up with these extravagent needs to exploit people. Women. kids, men, magicians, criminals and now the Egyptians?
~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
you must ask your self this question do you know entirely the reasoning and history of our ancestors who have been named "pharaoh" by the Europens who invaded the land. I speak not against you but simply in question. Because when YOU question the fact that you should honor these ancestors you are defying something very sacred.
so from you I simply want an answer to this question... then I will proceed with the purpose of this response
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
I think its just typical of these folks that they feel the need to defile something sacred.
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
As far as "these" folks- you cant really condemn them for defiling something sacred- as the tombs are not something that Europeans (I assume thats who you mean) consider sacred. I understand what you're getting at- but be succint in your characterizations or else you run the risk of just being accusatory (believe me "these folks" are guilty of plenty of things that they actually did- not just things that anybody and everybody did)- its kinda like Indian people calling you a defiler when you eat a burger- you know cows are sacred.
as far as Pharoah- my comment was this.
"The materialistic arrogance of the Pharoahs of past mitigates the exploitation of peoples today."
My point is- if you plate your corpse in gold and laden your tomb with material riches- you can expect it to be looted. this isnt about honoring Phaorah or not- this about a reasonable response to the customs of Egypt. In the enslavement and rule over a great number of Egyptians Pharoah gained great wealth and power but when he died- he ran the risk of being a victim just like any other man- cuz alas he was only a man. Ill honor him as such- but as nothing more.
Please dont try to blame the looting of the pyramids solely on Europeans- alot of the tombs were empty by the time plaefaces got there- and pyramids will built with a great number of traps and misleading passageways cuz they knew that what they had buried there was bound to catch the eye of any random scavanger- be he African or otherwise.
My additional point howvere was that its funny that a few of you will honor the likes of a gold covered king who claimed to be a god but when the hot boys say bling bling you clouldnt possibly imagine how they could be honorable.
Make no mistake- i will honor my ancestors but I WILL NOT honor them as anything more than human. If defying Pharoah's claims to be a god means Im defying something sacred so be it- cuz i dont necessarily hold his regency as sacred- and neither does the bible.
How many people still follow Egyptian religion anyway- cuz on their faith alone is the measure of how sacred the pharoah's legacy is. If you're defending the dignity of the tombs- then thats a different matter.
"do you know entirely the reasoning and history of our ancestors who have been named "pharaoh" by the Europens who invaded the land."
My knowledge of Pharoah and Egyptian culture comes largely from the bible, studies of Egyptian religion by Jesuit theology, and teh work of Ivan Van Sertima (they came before Columbus).
Its a common misconception that Egypt was a Black nation and thats not true- it was a very cosmopolitan nation comprised of many culture including Europeans. It was dark skinned african men and light skinned african women who held nobility - but to say imply that Euorpeans recast Egyptian traditions only after they "invaded" is a mischaracterization.
Several Europeans who visited Egypt did so for the sake of academic study- the likes of many Greek philosophers- few of them were in the mindset of mischaracterizing Egyptian traditions in their writings- they were proud to have been there.
I do not know Egyptian reasoning and history entirely but I know of artifacts that have been unearthed that depict a regency that heralded itself in pride and material gluttony. I have no intention of dishonoring anything, but if you bury yourself in gold somebody will eventually rob you of it- thats just common sense.
Let me start by saying that I am part Egyptian, my mother was born and raised in (KMT) or Egypt then came to the states in here early adult years… Im certain for you that is neither here nor there… however for me it obviously means a lot especially in this situation.
And also I agree with you 101% when you say that we should honor our ancestors but as nothing more than what they were and that is indeed human… It is this very idea that keeps us from connecting with our ancestors… Yes we should indeed place them on a pedestal but one that is not impossible for us to climb in our own existence.
But I will say that once again the history of the European has shown that he is one who has no respect for any other life other than his own. Let alone those things that others may view as sacred… so to do something like invade a divine space is typical for him. And as far as the whole cow thing goes… I am vegetarian… and I have never invaded the space of Indian people by killing the cows in their possession.... There is a big difference. But I see your point.
What I had a problem with is the fact that you try to compare the ignorant and brain washed ways of a misguided American/Europeanized brotha to something that indeed was done as ritual. You have a point, but that is truly taking things out of context and stretching them a bit far. By the time many of these practices and rituals were in full affect the last walk in the sun for that time period was over for the people of Egypt. There had been many invasions and the land had seen its fair share of traders so the ways and rituals (although still sacred) did have traces of the ways of many outsiders that had penetrated its fortress of a thrown, and tainted many minds. Egypt had been secure with its vast resources and riches for thousands of years with out the temptation of gluttony and excessiveness. But you must respect these rituals for what they are.
And any mentions of the bible will not hold weight unless used in certain circumstances because by definition I am a heathen.
But let it be know that I do respect the things that you have displayed and will continue to do so. And reading my previous post I will say that I may have come off a bit scattered in my approach. And I have recognized that it’s something that may confuse direction of purpose.
Peace
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
>But I will say that once >again the history of the >European has shown that he >is one who has no >respect for any other life >other than his own.
Cmon now- Europe is a pretty big place- with a lot of cultures many of which arent considered as congruent with the evil "white" man villainy that would have all Europeans be held accountable for the deeds of a few bastards. Who did Polish people ever invade- the French, the Swiss, Belgian, Dutch peoples... all European but they're hardly guilty of the things you're acusing them of.
>Let alone those things that >others may view as sacred… >so to do something like >invade a divine space is >typical for him.
Typical for who- so-called White peopl or anybody of Euorpean descent surely an Irish guy is not culturally predisposed to this- th last Irish invasion was what, Leprachaun 4 (Lepracaun in teh hood with Ice T)
>What I had a problem with >is the fact that you >try to compare the ignorant >and brain washed ways of >a misguided American/Europeanized brotha to >something that indeed was done >as ritual. You have a >point, but that is truly >taking things out of context >and stretching them a bit >far. By the time >many of these practices and >rituals were in full affect >the last walk in the >sun for that time period >was over for the people >of Egypt. There had been >many invasions and the land >had seen its fair share >of traders so the ways >and rituals (although still sacred) >did have traces of the >ways of many outsiders that >had penetrated its fortress of >a thrown, and tainted many >minds. Egypt had been >secure with its vast resources >and riches for thousands of >years with out the temptation >of gluttony and excessiveness. But >you must respect these rituals >for what they are.
Im not sure what disrespect you're referring to- my statement was only that Pharoah guilded his corpse in gold- which he did- and as such the tradition mitigated that his tomb would eventually be robbed- they were so aware of this that they planned preventative measures. Youd have more luck defending the practice of mummification and the collection of organs- but it was a matter of the Eruopean science community (not necessary the European culture) that saw to defile the sacred artifacts in that case.
In regards to your "misguided American/Europeanized brotha" Im dismayed that in all your posturing for Pharoah- a figure from a culture and period that precedes you for several generations- you cast out this disparaging remark about your own people, your own peers. Again I ask you - why is it ok for Pharoah to cover his body and palacial living quarters with gold in both life and in death but when the hot boys do it- they are deemed "misguided." Do not men and women of the south have rituals and traditions- isnt wearing gold and platinum one of them. Just because they dont claim to be gods- that makes them misguided and Americanized- but wait most of that gold comes from Africa? is materialism an American or European tradition- you ever seen Pharoah's tomb arrangements?
>And any mentions of the bible >will not hold weight unless >used in certain circumstances because >by definition I am a >heathen.
Thats fine- I was only showing how certain things held sacred by particular cultures dont necessarily diminish the sacred merit of others- you proved my point just now. You defending Pharoah might defy the sacred doctrine of any devout Christian (the bible doesnt hold Pharoah in much esteem) nonetheless you havent necessarily committed any act against the Christian faith you've only honored the matters of your own faith.
>But let it be know that >I do respect the things >that you have displayed and >will continue to do so. >And reading my previous post >I will say that I >may have come off a >bit scattered in my approach. >And I have recognized that >it’s something that may confuse >direction of purpose.
they were proud to have been there... but shortly there after they stole and took credit for many if not all of the things that they learned Egypt goes far beyond wht you can learn from any bible although there are some truths that do exist in that text
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
>they were proud to have been >there... but shortly there after >they stole and took credit >for many if not all >of the things that they >learned
This is a crime commited by about 4 people that was propogated by a nation that didnt know any better- there were still a great many European people who reperesented the culture fairly and even lived there- which is why alot of reasonable and valuable information remains today. As i said Egypt was very cosmolpolitan in its flourishing periods (but dark skinned African men held the nobility- I just like saying that). To defame European culture for the acts of a few European bitches is a mischaracterization of the history of Europeans and Africans and even Egyptians- if your goal is to defend Egyptian culture than surely you realize there is a very real instance of European heritage in that culture.
>Egypt goes far beyond wht you >can learn from any bible >although there are some truths >that do exist in that >text
The preponderence of my knowledge of Egypt is based on preserved artifacts and the work of Ivan Van sertima.
44. "RE: Another question" In response to Reply # 43
Well yeah you are correct, due to certain influences Islam is dominant in Egyptian society
And yes there are people who still worship certain ancient deities, although many of them do this with a great deal of confusion.
And as far as your other message goes... there was evidence of some Europeans that did exist peacefully with the people of the land. BUT almost everything that was cherished in European culture was stolen from Egyptian culture. And that's fact, they gave no credit to the people that they befriended and then betrayed and then invaded.
And as far as the origin of the people of Egypt it was originally a land of BLACK that stemmed from the Nubian civilizations
However Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
45. "RE: Another question" In response to Reply # 44
"BUT almost everything that was cherished in European culture was stolen from Egyptian culture."
You're still making pretty bold statements that cant hold weight despite the fact that you demand they are facts. almost everything? What about Saurkraut, Swiss Cheese, Lager, ale, what about roman bathhouses, greek orgies with little boys, politics and structured government (Egypt was a Theocracy- Rome was a republic and subsequently an empire), Leprauchauns, mythology.
Let's not propogate the myth that all Europeans ever did was steal, kill and lie cuz thats not the truth. There were several ways in which European culture was influenced by African culture but we cant make the leap from influence to flat out theft. Taking Africans from the coast and enslaving them- now thats stealing. learning acadmeics, mathematics, science, and philosophy and refining them in one's own culture- thats a natural progression of influence and information.
46. "thats blatant thievery" In response to Reply # 45
For you to say that observing the genius of one culture than making it your own and not giving recognition, but pretending as if you have unearthed these jewels within your own culture... that's just plain and blatant theft!!!
And once again you are correct I am making generalizations so I will be a little more specific
Much of the Art Language Symbolism Architecture Philosophy Civilization structure Government structure Mythology
Among other things were all apart of the stolen legacy
It is also true that much of what they stole was distorted and misconstrued But still there were many things that stood out and were obviously taken from Africa withOUT any recognition given
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
the fact that they stole from us wasnt exactly the worse of events included in our relationship with Europe (in that specific period) but what steemed from it was. the fact that the rest of the world (including thier descendants) celebrated Europeans as geniuses and not thieves had a very serious effect on both cultures and still continues to effect us both today.
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
48. "but thats where you're wrong" In response to Reply # 47
the fact that the rest of the world (including thier descendants) celebrated Europeans as geniuses and not thieves had a very serious effect on both cultures and still continues to effect us both today."
Nobody heralded the glory of Europeans but Europeans- everybody else knew where the cultures had blended together and where influences had been gained from. They still know- we're just not taught that here.
Did Asian people consider the Europeans as geniuses- no, how bout the Africans- hell naw. Mexican and Latin american people? Native Americans? Even a lot of Europeans dont like Europeans- and the French think that everybody is stupid. again your generalization is holding a great number of cultures and communities accountable for the acts of a few nations- namely Britain, Germany, Spain, and France- be very careful when you say European, you're talking about a lot more people- the Irish, teh Scottish, the Polish- even the Swedish- and you know the Swiss aint never done nuthin to nobody.
50. "RE: but thats where you're wrong" In response to Reply # 48
the fact still remains that thier actions served as a functioning tool of oppression and mental conditioning. and when I say Eurpoean I am saying it with the full understanding of who Im speaking of... Peace
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
51. "RE: but thats where you're wrong" In response to Reply # 50
>the fact still remains that thier >actions served as a functioning >tool of oppression and mental >conditioning. and when I say >Eurpoean I am saying it >with the full understanding of >who Im speaking of... >Peace
But Im trying to figure out who you're speaking of. Who's actions served as a tool of oppressions- Ive never once been denied a job because of swiss cheese nor has any brutha ever been hung over croissants.
We're supposed to know our enemy right? or are we just supposed to have a vague continental idea of where our enemy comes from?
Cmon amina you cant drop all those accusations and not have one bit of evidence. Im not saying you're wrong or lying but if we're supposed to be sharing information pointing the finger at an entire continent just aint gonna cut it.
Maybe YOU know who you're talking about but how the hell would we know- and if you know- how bout you tell us. Europe is a pretty big place- holding Europeans entirely responsible for crimes of inhumanity is outrageous; what about the Russians, Austrians, Czechloslovakians, Dutch, Belgians, Prussians, Swiss- did these people ever even migrate to African portions of the world- no so what on Earth are they guilt of?
53. "RE: but thats where you're wrong" In response to Reply # 51
Okay now… just a question Have you ever read any of Diop’s works… how about John Henrick Clarke … or George GM James? There is also a book called Nile Valley Civilization… however I forget who the author of it is… but anyhow… this is just out of curiosity.
And by the way as far as Egyptians being thieves by my definition… I will say that if you do not embrace your own original ways of being then you infact are embracing someone else’s and that is indeed wrong. However most of this was a case of accepting outside influence and exploring ways that didn’t originally belong to us that ultimately brought forth harm to our own culture. Vs. going out and seeking the greatness of others and then saying that it’s your own… not to mention the amount of deceit and betrayal that went along with this. Keep in mind the history of African and European relations we ain’t never went to their land and stole from them nor attached their existence…so that makes what we do just a but different from what they do
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
54. "well in this particular instance" In response to Reply # 53
My beef is mainly with the Greeks and Russians
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
55. "Romans not Russians my bad n/m" In response to Reply # 54
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
Greek and Roman empires are very localized cultural elements. lasting no more than a century in and of themselves but European culture is much bigger than that. To lump all that together under one negative connotation is to disregard several examples of innovation and accomplishment that is worth being redeemed.
56. "RE: but thats where you're wrong" In response to Reply # 53
Ive read a little Diop but none of the others.
I dont see how you can call all European examples of African influence thievery yet admonish the egyptians when you claim they did it to. You say on one hand it is the way that Europeans did it that diminishes the dignity of their learning from Africans but you're not giving any examples of how it was reasonable for them to gain that influence and not necessarily site the source.
If a guy in Egypt teaches me how to build with mortar and pestle so i can go back to greece and build a home- how much credit am i supposed to give him- is it his home? On the converse you site that Egyptians gained influence from "invaders" and I doubt they cited their sources- nonetheless they arent thieves.
Your opinion on the matter is impressive as far as your research but its still very biased and vague in referencing the actual cultures that supposedly robbed African culture.
Itd be one thing if you said the Greeks stole it- cuz they did, but you're saying Europeans as a whole and thats just not true.
49. "RE: thats blatant thievery" In response to Reply # 46
>For you to say that observing >the genius of one culture >than making it your own >and not giving recognition, but >pretending as if you have >unearthed these jewels within your >own culture... that's just plain >and blatant theft!!!
sure but you're beholden to cite a specific example where this took place- what about roman and egyptian architectiure, warfare, plumbing... you're leaving a whole lot out and generalizing the rest.
>And once again you are correct >I am making generalizations so >I will be a little >more specific > >Much of the >Art
pottery, jewelry, painting, sculpture? you're not being very specific at all. dont even try to say sculpture cuz romans and greeks had a very different approach to portraiture and life representation than egyptians- who used symbol and form in their artistic portrayals. Was the bust of Pallas stolen from Egyptian art trends- certainly not.
>Language
Romance languages have no root in Egyptian languages- I dont see where you got this from. Maybe literature or philosophy but not the language itself. are you saying Europeans couldnt talk before they went to Egypt- preposterous.
>Symbolism
I dont remember much symbolism in European art- in any case symbolism is far too vague a concept to contribute it to one culture. Native americans used symbolism too it doesnt mean that got it from Egypt- rather symbolism is a basic form of communicating among humans.
>Architecture
see here is where your accusation of theft is off base. Who invented the wheel?- if the Egyptians where the first to use it (although you cant prove that) then is every subsequent user of teh wheel a theif? Pillars? Bricks? Architecture developped from the need of humankind to have shelter- just because i build my house with bricks doesnt mean I stole the technology from anybody- it only means that since this is a pretty effective way of building a dwelling this is probably the way i ought to go. Not to mention Romans and Greeks made several innovations on architecture as did Asian people. Where Europeans homeless before tehy went to Egypt- no but when they got there they got better ideas as to how to build their homes... did they steal the ideas- no they just wanted roofs. give them a break- damn.
Sorry charlie- I cant name one European civilization that was based on the premise that their leader was a god. Egyptian government was not just a theocracy it was an oligarchy. European governments were largely secular.
>Mythology
Again no- Greek and Roman mythology steemed mostly from Norse religions- they by and large didnt adopt Egyptian gods because Egyptian gods supposedly had earthly vessels- them being teh Pharoah and his entourage.
>Among other things were all apart >of the stolen legacy > >It is also true that much >of what they stole was >distorted and misconstrued >But still there were many things >that stood out and were >obviously taken from Africa withOUT >any recognition given
In all your statements you have yet to make one concrete statement as to a tradition or trait that was stolen from Egypt. If most of the things that Europeans cherished were stolen from Africa- pleas name one thing specifically.
again there is a difference between influence and theft. the misrepresentation of influence is indeed a miscarriage of information but still does not amount to theivery. In fact you said this yourself "the ways and rituals (although still sacred) did have traces of the ways of many outsiders" of the latter days of the Egyptians so by your own premise you would consider the Egyptians thieves as well- which is it gonna be?
52. "RE: thats blatant thievery" In response to Reply # 49
In response
The first land to ever gain civilized structure was Nubia… then stemming from Nubia was KMT (Egypt) KMT was the first and I mean very first to produce written language… the language that many currently refer to as Hieroglyphics. This as it is widely know is a language of symbol and picture VS letter and word. However the concept behind the ideas of the language are even evident in the words we speak today. For example…
“SM” (which is just a description of how the word would sound) represents the Ideal of “symbol” in the language of KMT Just look at the word “symbol” Another would be “NTR” which means divine, and when speaking of divine in the tradition of KMT we are most certainty referring to NaTuRe (or natus) the English that we use now has seen many revisions but the root of these words still stem from ancient Egyptian origin
This is no coincidence there are lots more incidents just like these… the symbolism and meanings in much of the language we speak comes from the various ancient Egyptian text.
And before I continue I will clarify the fact that many things that we see today are infact originally African. And is my understanding that those same things that I speak of have been classified as being of European origin.
Okay so you know those pillars and arcs that the Euros received such praise for… the Greeks specifically… like the ones that you see on the White House infact…. And many of the Greek architectural structures well they are too among the stolen jewels of KMT and its evident on just about any depiction in ancient Kemetic history.
Greek ways of thought? Well theres the obvious pyramid theorem that I will assume you know of but that’s just one. When you get to philosophy it is safe and accurate to say that Greek philosophy is basically Egyptian philosophy with a different face and name
Um it seems like to me that your knowledge of Egypt is kinda of shallow… I say this because of the continuos references to “gods” and such… you have only referred to what seemingly has been presented to all… there are things about KMT that like many things in African history have been hidden … The rulers of KMT were far more than brothas with a god complex as you have made them out to be. And yes when it comes to the self-image of African people wholistically I have to be a bit nit picky because we were made to belive that our contributions to this society as a whole were near non existent when that’s so far from the truth it stinks. I cannot go a day with out seeing something that is native to my homeland and im not just speaking of North Africa but of the continent as a whole. Like just the other day I was talking about the representation of pounds (lb) stemming from the astronomical sign Libra noticing how the symbol for that sign is indeed a scale it made perfect since when this was first brought to my attention. When I did make mention of this my Professor immediately jumped into the whole usage of the scale to represent justice. And I said yeah... balance the scale is actually an ancient Egyptian symbol originally called the Makat synonymous with MAAT, who represented all that was balanced and the idea of justice was one of her virtues.
And you know its funny how when one African person does something great they are recognized as that one African person… and when there is a negative light shed on one or a group of African people then that light shines throughout the entire culture. However when a few Europeans do something great (when nine times out of ten its not really their achievement) it is a huge step for their people. Yet when one person does something wrong (and yet again in most cases its never really just one) people get defensive on some… hey lets not stereotype and generalize… that always seems to make me wonder.
And um… lets say I listened to oh I don’t know Nas and I was one who greatly appreciated his style and the things he said. And I wanted to peruse a career in the music business as means of survival… so I listen to Nas cause you know… the guy is swell and so Im at home writing lyrics in hopes of one day these lyrics becoming something that would help me secure myself financially…. Cuzz um I gotta eat to survive… much like the Greeks had ta build these structures efficiently in order to ensure their safety and shelter. so what happens if in my “creative process” I use a verse from one of Nas’ joints in my ish….. and I act as if I wrote it myself… never once giving credit to him… I mean granted he IS one of my favorites and all… would I not be guilty of some serious “sharkin”?
And what if I did it continuously…. And what if I didn’t even exactly use his words but his exact rhyme style…. Then in the midst of all this passing myself off as creative and innovative and then moving on to become celebrated for my “skill” and originality… meanwhile Nas ain’t getting no recognition from anyone in regards to the ish I stole from him….
No would that not be major crime … c’mon now And hey why stop there… lets say that the style that I originated set a new standard for excellence in hip-hop… meanwhile Nas is over on a street corner somewhere going broke cuzz he cant for some reason sell records to the same audience that once appreciated his style. But has no need for it because I and everyone else who has imitated me supplied that need for quality music.
I mean do you see the pattern here?
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
You might be able to demonstrate that Egypt was the first to develop official examples of their language and civilization but you cant necessarily say that all things came from that point. Sure there was influence abound among the peoples of early earth but there are examples of human intellectual development all about the world that doesnt necessarily correlate to Egyptian influence.
Did asians learn from Egypt? Indigenous Americans? The idea that African tribes as a whole got all their language from Egypt is not even sound and they shared a body of land.
The problem Im finding with your claims is that it seems to pruport that all things came from Egypt and KMT and thats simply not true. All things may have flourished through KMT but there are several civilizations that existed totally indepndently of its influence. Did the Norsemen incorporate african influence, the barbarians, the mongols?
As for Nas- your analogy calls into question the idea of creative and artistic integrity which is not necessarily a tradition of architecture, mathematics, and science especially on the formulative level. If you teach a man how to fish- you expect him to fish, would you expect him to give every fish he caught to you, would you expect him to say you caught it? On some of the levels you're citing African influence wasnt stolen it was appreciated- and subsequently many peoples began to develop on their own accord.
What about the example of sculpture between Egyptians and Greeks- its hardly the same tradition; the only apparent influence might be the materials used to build but even then there is a large discrepancy due to the geographical locations of each culture. You cant altogether slight European developments cuz they made many.
I paralleled the situations only to show how devastating it is when something you have manifested is used against you. We are a very creative people who put our heart into many things that we did and still do. Our ancestors did nothing on accident, they secured certain tradition and achievement whether it be religion, architecture, art, philosophy and others with intent and purpose. They planned for us. they wanted their legacies to be in tact for hundreds and thousands of generations to come. You have to understand the frustration I have, because when I look at all of the things that stemmed from our existence in the ancient years it pains me to know that they are not recognized as ours. And Truly I'm not concerned if whites enjoy our wealth I mean we manifested things that if utilized correctly could aid many lands… but when the children (symbolically speaking) of these dynamos are purposely and deliberately kept in the dark about their heritage… that's another story. That's like a father building a house for his children to live in when his physical has passed and a neighbor from around the corner comes and lives in it and keeps it for his family.
I am in the constant position of someone who has to continuously affirm and convince my peers and those younger and even elder that they are vital... That they have the ability to do anything and the proof is in the history. I mean its just a shame… those things about our story and past that are visually linked to our ancestors like the pyramids for example were even accused of being a "mystery". Of course its common knowledge now but whites specifically were like "there's no way the people of that land could have possibly built something so powerful intricate and ingenious". I mean damn… our past is where we will draw our power.
And as far as the language goes I simply said that we manifested the first language and made references to the language we used today.
"Bias"? Yeah no doubt about it… that is something I have to work through because when it comes to facts and being objective its easier and healthier to have as little amount of emotion as possible. But this is a struggle that I face everyday
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
Is that you were raising your dispute against an entire continent and you admit that you primarily mean the Greeks and the Romans and I further offered up European colonialists and the European sciene community as culprits.
Now you're talking about white people- and thats the kinda stuff Im trying to avoid. you Know me- you know Im casting off this whole idea of race classification and encouraging others to do so as well. The saving grace of my philosophy is that there is culture and ethnicity that serves well enough as man's origins and while most whites may be under the impression that they are people of race they should be happy to know and happy to embrace that they are European Americans instead.
But its crucial to understand that it doesnt stop there- cuz Europe is a pretty big place. I cant settl for people just calling themselves European Americans just as I cant settle for calling myself African American. Likewise i cant allow you to make such comments about all European cultures when we both know that there are specific crimes commited by specific peoples. Id much rather you say their name so that we may all understand the prospect of accountability- should we really hold the Swiss accountable for the deeds of Rome- no then we shouldnt blame Europeans for the crimes of a few (yet very poewrful) European nations.
61. "thats understandable" In response to Reply # 60
however I dont define anyone but myself (my people) as of now
Amina NiaRa (Nubia) ________________________________________ You write like I breathe. It sustains you, like the air drawn into my lungs sustains me. Please keep breathing. - mikeONE
with each word you manifest reality... speech is by nature and must continue to be divine.
Limitations are self manifested...
perfection changes daily as revolutions continously take place...
-Amina ________________________________________ wordsdivine@hotmail.com We gotta build yall... No time to be enemies it'sbout time we started LIVING IN some VITAL ENERGY L.I.V.E. ________________________________________
I thought the qquestion related to the desire of certain members of certain culture to pillage the burial places of the ancient egyptians.
I thought the question was more toward: is is right/cool for people to disrespect (by digging up their bodies/looting their burial places ) these people for the sake of their entertainment.
But what do I know? Koala, you funny (the way you can totally FLIP any comment/query into THE KOALALOVE AGENDA is quite impressive). ------QUOTE STARTS HERE------ Help BooDaah STAY the Moderator for the OkayActivism Board....
Fill Angiee's Mailbox full of requests for me (HAHA she'll LOOOOVE THAT!!!)
I just dont think its fair to infuse presumed issues into somebody's questions. My response is about the general idea of "digging up" egyptian remains. My extrapolation into materialism served as an explanation as to why such curiosity is encouraged.
You're evoking matters of culture as if Aviance said anything about "members of certain culture" and their misdeeds- she didnt say anything about that.
No, I am not of Egyptian decent. I am however intrigued by Egyptian life and culture. As our ancient peoples what I mean is that these were a group of people who lived on "our" earth in the beginnings of "our" time on this earth. We today still idolize these people to some degree. People sporting Egyptian inspired jewlery, women who wear make, and acrhitechs who are still amazed by the stucture of the pyramid. The Egyptian life, times and culture really has given us a plethora of enchantments. Our people, we are all one people and these were our people too. ~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
i'm a tru pisces tryna flow in the direction of both of these okplayer quotes:
"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light" -nebbie
"GOd give me the strength to change the things i can, understanding for those i cannot and the muthafuckin heart to stand up for my beliefs and principles, so that when the government that is suppossed to protect me turns against me and my people we will have the means, the might and the muthafuckin gun power to blow away our oppressors umm amen" -earthqueen
To extend a line geometically to its fullest extent or linguistically to extend a concept or theme to logical conclusions or subsequent themes and concepts.
My idea that you are truely a person of ethnic origins as opposed to racial origins is an extrapolation on the idea that YOU ARE NOT WHITE.
21. "Koala is E=Mc2 of Okayplayer" In response to Reply # 18
Y'all didn't know? He just tinkers with us. ~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
10. "That is also a valid point" In response to Reply # 3
I think this post could really unearth (no pun really intended) many different issues. Yes, why does the American culture feel like doing this is entertaning to a network of vieweres. On the other hand, why do certain Americans actaully want to be entertained by these shows?
~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
6. "only if it's tastefully done..." In response to Reply # 0
a la henry louis gates' "wonders of africa" series that was on pbs.
i think fox is a little too busy trying to redeem itself after the "who wants to marry a multimillionaire" fiasco....and i kinda hoped hugh downs was a little above this type of stuff. i guess money talks, huh?
~~wbg~~
"and somehow, it all made sense..."--me
"They can lock up your body, but your mind is yours even if you don't want it."--Walter Mosley
~~wbg~~ "I pray sometimes to keep my head together, because you can use prayer however you want. There are no rules one way or the other." --Jami Attenberg
That show worked wonders for Fox- it ended badly but the only people that got screwed were darva conger and that other jackass- but even they got residuals and dollars for telling their story. Meanwhile fox is raking in liscensing on the footage that the news reports are using to tell you just what a fiasco this was. This was better than it could have been- had things gone smoothly the couple would have faded into seclusion and obscurity and Fox would have tried to recapture the moment with another paegent. This was they can disqualify all parties involved and retract all finacial obligations and still reap the benefits of the publicity.
11. "So, It's all just a big scam? n/m" In response to Reply # 7
~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
... they'd go back to showing "When Animals Attack".
That was the funniest crap in the history of television.
I think everyone here will admit that Fox's niche is lowbrow TV. Never in their history have they even perpetrated trying to do anything but go for the lowest common denomintator for the sake of ratings. You ever see or read "Running Man" or the "Truman Show"? How much you wanna bet they were broadcasted on on Fox?
------QUOTE STARTS HERE------ Help BooDaah STAY the Moderator for the OkayActivism Board....
Fill Angiee's Mailbox full of requests for me (HAHA she'll LOOOOVE THAT!!!)
23. "RE: I just wish..." In response to Reply # 22
I feel you, like in the spirit of "The Croccodile Hunter" on Animal Planet. I have been amused many times by his tactics and excursions! ~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
25. "RE: Animals are attacking, we have to kill them!" In response to Reply # 22
I personally felt "When Animals Attack" was another attempt to convince people to abandon environemntalist causes and support farmers, ranchers, hunters, loggers etc. A show like this proves that animals are evil and are just out to get us, so we'd better get them first. In the Sacramento area, we'd have mountain lions come into mountain housing areas, and local politicians would say "these animals are invading our territory." Haha what the hell did you bulid there for next door to the mountain lions?! Okay I've gone suitably off-topic.
C. Walker, aka The Matrix, master of the hmtl insult and the cheapshot, okayplayer newbie, IM at skyWalker900. Peace!
26. "America is capitalistic...." In response to Reply # 0
When money is envoled morals are thrown to the wind or temporarily set aside...they don't care about people or what's right or wrong...they care about money!!! Remember the slave burial ground in NYC? This reminds me...where I live there is a old, old, old white cemetery...NOW RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET THERE IS A BLACK BURIAL GROUND JUST AS OLD AND THEY BUILT A GAS STATION OVER IT!!!! THAT SHIT MAKES ME HOT. ~sig starts here~ "That boy's fingers are so sticky he could steal a booger out of a jar of honey" ~Ms. Benita Batrail from in living color aka Ms.Dont talk about Mrs.Jenkins
Sometimes, when I'm alone, I think about ketchup, because I know that the truth is that it's just sitting there in a bottle, by itself. I'm pretty sure it's red. Sometimes when I'm with ketchup, I think about being alone, in a bottle. Standing next to the mustard all day. ~ chester from sifl and olly
28. "RE: Damn I missed it" In response to Reply # 27
I was watching the Knicks and Pacers, but I switched at over at key interludes and from what I saw they didn't find much of anything. The Dr. leading the "excavation" was a hyper freakazoid who was so charged up thatthis never before seen event was being broadcast worlwide that his face looked like a shower head. They found some small artifacts: *An amulet- to protect the grave *The sculpted head of an animal- to ward of intruders *An artifact that denotes "existence" *Very tiny gold fragmented amulets again placed in the grave to protect it from the hoarding money hungry humans thousands of years later.
~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
29. "RE: Damn I missed it" In response to Reply # 28
>*Very tiny gold fragmented amulets again >placed in the grave to >protect it from the hoarding >money hungry humans thousands of >years later.
Instead of amulets, they should have installed booby traps Indiana Jones-style. That would have made for some good TV. Sure, Fox would lose a couple employees, but think of the replay value!!
32. "**Falling outta my chair in laughter**" In response to Reply # 29
~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
30. "Maybe not aliens but........" In response to Reply # 27
Did you know about the room under the right paw of the Sphinx?
Discovered a few years ago by sonic detectors, the Egyptian government refused to grant Western archiologists the right to excavate the site.
In 1997 a tape landed in the hands of some journalists in the UK of Zahi Hawass (Head of Egyptian Heritage) in front of a stone door saying that in a few moments he will open this door to a room "under the Sphinx" live in front of the whole world. Apparently it was a showreel selling the rights of opening to different networks around the world.
Wierd thing - An American 'prophet' called Edgar Cayce predicted in the 1930s that people will find a room underneath the right paw of the Sphinx in 1996/97. He also said that this room would contain a 'repositary of knowledge of human history' showing that the Egyptians are of the same heritage of the Toltecs and Mayans and come from Atlantis. However he claimed that the Egyptian and certain governments would supress this knowledge.
Theres a lot more to this as well (which I won't go into cuz it will lead away from the thread)
This sort of thing excites me Maybe I watch to much X Files
33. "Very interesting indeed n/m" In response to Reply # 30
~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~>~> IM- Aviance32 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LISTEN TO GOOD HIP HOP WHILE ONLINE WEDNESDAY NIGHTS 8-10 pm "UNDERGROUND AMBIANCE" HOSTED BY AVIANCE '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' http://uicradio.pages.uic.edu "Underground Ambiance" Click Click ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart feverently. 1 Peter 1:22
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