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el_rey
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5626 posts
Thu Aug-03-00 07:46 AM

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"Lesser of 2 Evil pt. 2"


  

          

More food for thought for all those who still think a vote for Nader is a Vote for Bush:

San Jose Mercury News

July 19, 2000

A Vote For Nader Is Not A Vote For Bush

By Alexander Cockburn

You can tell the Democrats are getting truly worried about Ralph Nader, the Green Party presidential candidate. It's only July, and already the attacks are getting shriller and sillier. But with Nader within sight of double digits in the polls in California, Oregon and Washington, and making an increasingly strong showing in the Rust Belt, Gore's supporters see desperate peril.

Asked about the threat that Nader would erode his own base and let Bush into the White House, vice president Gore was dismissive last weekend, simply telling reporters that he does not regard Nader as a threat. But behind this mien of strained nonchalance, Gore and his strategists are casting about for surrogates to intimidate potential defectors to Nader and to bully them back into the fold.

Some of these attacks on Nader have been surfacing in small journals of liberal opinion, like the biweekly In These Times, which sedately caters to progressive Democrats and labor activists. The current edition features an attack on Nader, written by Guy Saperstein (identified as a trustee of the Sierra Club Foundation), offering a defense of Al Gore's environmental record almost surreal in its distance from the painful facts.

Saperstein has the effrontery to laud Gore's record in preventing oil exploration and drilling in Alaska. Alas, Gore has helped pry open the largest expanse of undeveloped terrain on the Arctic plain, the Alaska National Petroleum Reserve. Saperstein also asks rhetorically, ``What has Ralph Nader done for the environment?'' Well, for a start, Nader and his associate David Zwick essentially wrote the Clean Water Act back in the 1970s, when Al Gore was supporting every dam project of the TVA, including the Tellico Dam, where he first helped steamroll the Endangered Species Act.

Saperstein also acclaims Gore's record as a defender of the national forests. But his own group, the Sierra Club, has called for an end to commercial logging of these federal lands, and the only candidate to endorse that call has been Ralph Nader. In an era of oil-industry consolidation unprecedented since the age of the first Rockefellers and Mellons, Nader has been an unrelenting critic of Big Oil, while Gore and the Democratic National Committee have pocketed millions in oil-industry cash.

Slightly up the food chain from In These Times is the venerable Nation. Its latest issue features a swinging attack on Nader by Katha Pollitt, a feminist who reduces this year's presidential election to one issue: abortion. Gore, she says, will be a robust defender of the Roe v. Wade decision, whereas Nader's record on feminist issues is, she implies, dubious.

Even a cursory cruise through Gore's congressional career would surely have brought up Pollitt short. As a congress- man, Gore endorsed the most reactionary of Reagan-era erosions of choice, and then, repeatedly voted against federal funding for abortions for poor women.

Of all the laws in the Clinton-Gore years affecting women, none was more devastating and punitive than the Welfare Reform Bill, passed in the summer of 1996. In the Cabinet, Gore was the one who pushed Clinton into signing the bill over the opposition of virtually the whole Cabinet. In consequence, 2.6 million people were thrown into direct poverty, of whom 1.1 million were children. The federal entitlement for welfare, one of the cornerstones of the New Deal, was ended, and 14 million on welfare were put on a three-year limit.

Even as Nader made a strong showing at the National Press Club this week, Rep. Barney Frank took a swipe at him, saying that Gore would be a more vigilant defender of civil rights. It's odd to hear the openly gay rep from Massachusetts defend Gore on these grounds. After all, the vice president's biographer, Bill Turque, discloses in his book that Gore, a born-again Christian, has referred to homosexuals as being ``abnormal.''

Gore is also the man who tried to gut affirmative action at the federal level, with his reinventing
government'' initiatives in 1993. The vice president's position on the death penalty is indistinguishable from George Bush's, and Gore's campaign is now attacking the Texas governor for being soft on crime.

In The New York Times, columnist Anthony Lewis, a Gore supporter, lashed out at Nader for his opposition to the WTO and for permitting one of his groups to accept money from the textile magnate Roger Milliken.

At this point, one has to start laughing. Over the past 23 years, Gore has solicited and accepted campaign cash from arms companies, the nuclear industry, bond traders, runaway firms to Mexico like Mattel, and exploiters of child labor. Occidental, in which the Gore family has a stake now worth over half a million, is trying to drill in the Colombian rain forest on land belonging to the Uwa Indians, who are being murdered by Colombian soldiers now reportedly about to receive another billion, courtesy of the Clinton-Gore administration.

In the end, Gore's crowd has one basic argument: a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush. No, it's not. A vote for Nader is a vote for revitalizing the system and breaking the iron ceiling of the current one party with two heads.

Get Nader into the debates (under the current arbitrary rule imposed by the Democratic and Republican party machines, he needs to show 15 percent national support), and he could trounce both Gore and Bush, and roll into November with support kindred to Perot's 30-plus ratings in the summer of 1992. It was a three-way race then, and it could be a three-way race this fall. Nader isn't going to self-destruct the way Perot did.

A vote for Nader is not a wasted vote. It's a vote for optimism, a vote that says that if Nader even gets over 5 percent next November, then funding will kick in that will help thousands upon thousands of young reformers get their start across the country. It could be the first truly
exciting event of the new millennium.

Copyright (c) 2000 Mercury Center. All Rights
Reserved.

love and respect,
El Rey


http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org

CELEBRATING AUGUST AS ... aw fuck it, it's ME'SHELL MONTH up in this joint!

Are you free? Truly Free. Do you believe everything that you hear? Everything that you see? Can you tell me if you're free?

I try to tell folks, do you think if Elian, you know ... the little kid from Cuba ... was from Haiti, that we'd be having all this? If he was my color do you think we'd be having all this news shit? I don't think so. Or if he was a refugee from Rwanda do you think we'd be going through any of this? Wouldn't be such headline news. Do you believe everything that you hear and see? America's got you believing that Communism is right at your door, so boycott Cuba. Don't believe everything that you hear and everything that you see.

It's so sad. I get so sad some times. The only way to feel superior is to crush out the others. Cuz you sell your soul like you sell a piece of ass ... a slave to dead white leaders on paper. Welfare cases, rapists and hoes, all reinforced by videos and T.V. shows. Jail is a sancutary for the walking dead. It fucks with your head when every black leader ends up dead. Somebody said: our greatest destiny is to become white. But white is not pure and hate is not pride. Just cuz Civil Rights is law doesn't mean that you abide. So tell me ... are you free? -- Me'Shell Ndegeocello, from a live Web broadcast of "Dead Nigga Blvd."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
and speaking of nader...
Aug 03rd 2000
1
thanks.
Aug 04th 2000
2
Silly rabbits...
Aug 04th 2000
3
You remember Webster (not Emmanuell Lewis)?
Fletch
Aug 04th 2000
4
      Wrong.
Aug 04th 2000
5
           Let the quote battle begin
Fletch
Aug 04th 2000
6
                socialism: its not a bad word anymore ...
Aug 04th 2000
7
                RE: socialism: its not a bad word anymore ...
Aug 04th 2000
9
                huh ?
Aug 06th 2000
16
                     RE: huh ?
Aug 06th 2000
20
                a question...
Aug 06th 2000
13
                RE: Let the quote battle begin
Aug 04th 2000
8
                     huh pt. 2 ?
Aug 06th 2000
17
                          RE: huh pt. 2 ?
Aug 06th 2000
19
urban myth
elena
Aug 05th 2000
10
I can't vote for a person simply because of a single issue
Aug 06th 2000
11
      p.s.
Aug 06th 2000
12
EFF EVERYONE! BRING BACK THE WHIGS! (n/m)
Aug 06th 2000
14
Or...
Aug 06th 2000
15
Follow Your instinct
Aug 06th 2000
18
i'm going gore
Aug 07th 2000
21
RE: i'm going gore
Aug 07th 2000
22
RE: i'm going gore
Aug 07th 2000
23
RE: i'm going gore
elena
Aug 08th 2000
24

wbgirl
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5929 posts
Thu Aug-03-00 10:50 AM

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1. "and speaking of nader..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

check with your election commissioners and make sure he's on the ballot in your state...

according to http://www.vote.com, folks are trying to kick him off the ballot in illinois for lack of signatures...but i'm not sure what's going on in other states, though.

just sayin'.

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218 (although e-mail's still the easiest way to find me...)

http://www.breastcancer3day.org
between this and the (re), Chicago in 2001 will be on some whole new fantabulous shyt! (c) me

August as Quotewhoulike Month (c) me:
"I've learned that someone else's no can be my yes. For every door that's closed, there's another one waiting to be opened. There's an inner spirit guiding me every step of the way. If I can just take the time to listen to it and be true to it, the right people, the right places and the right circumstances will all come into my life when I'm ready for them." (c) Dr. Suzan Johnson Cook

~~wbg~~
"I pray sometimes to keep my head together,
because you can use prayer however you want.
There are no rules one way or the other."
--Jami Attenberg

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el_rey
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5626 posts
Fri Aug-04-00 02:09 AM

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2. "thanks."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I'll check it out.

love and respect,
El Rey


http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org

CELEBRATING AUGUST AS ... aw fuck it, it's ME'SHELL MONTH up in this joint!

Are you free? Truly Free. Do you believe everything that you hear? Everything that you see? Can you tell me if you're free?

I try to tell folks, do you think if Elian, you know ... the little kid from Cuba ... was from Haiti, that we'd be having all this? If he was my color do you think we'd be having all this news shit? I don't think so. Or if he was a refugee from Rwanda do you think we'd be going through any of this? Wouldn't be such headline news. Do you believe everything that you hear and see? America's got you believing that Communism is right at your door, so boycott Cuba. Don't believe everything that you hear and everything that you see.

It's so sad. I get so sad some times. The only way to feel superior is to crush out the others. Cuz you sell your soul like you sell a piece of ass ... a slave to dead white leaders on paper. Welfare cases, rapists and hoes, all reinforced by videos and T.V. shows. Jail is a sancutary for the walking dead. It fucks with your head when every black leader ends up dead. Somebody said: our greatest destiny is to become white. But white is not pure and hate is not pride. Just cuz Civil Rights is law doesn't mean that you abide. So tell me ... are you free? -- Me'Shell Ndegeocello, from a live Web broadcast of "Dead Nigga Blvd."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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Expertise
Charter member
37848 posts
Fri Aug-04-00 03:19 AM

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3. "Silly rabbits..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

You live by the sword, and you die by the sword. Nader, an extreme left-wing socialist who has no chance in hell to win the presidency, nor if he did do anything that he promised in his campaign, is doing exactly the same thing to get George Bush elected that Ross Perot did to get Clinton elected without a majority of the vote in either election. Although I really don't like Bush, you've got to say that's quite funny.

All you so-called socialists keep voting for Nader. You're really going to make the world a better place for conservatives.

You have had the pleasure of reading
Expertise's posts.

Okayplayer forum, Boondocks forum,
Blackplanet member (but I don't do
anything there now but email because
it's lame), member of Go Network's
African-American Chatroom
(AmericasRealExpert, YoungIntellect),
and a member of Yahoo.com (real_expert,
expertise.rm)

And a PROUD black conservative.

"Darkness comes so others may see the
light"

Expertise@rocketmail.com or
therealexpert@hotmail.com

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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Fletch

Fri Aug-04-00 03:48 AM

  
4. "You remember Webster (not Emmanuell Lewis)?"
In response to Reply # 3


          


Nader is not calling for a nationalization of all industry, he is not calling for full democratic control of all workplaces. In order to be considered a socialist, he would probably need to be supporting these things. He may be a social democrat, but that is different.

You may be a PROUD conservative (as your tag indicates), but how about you be a proud conservative who uses a dictionary.


Fletch

  

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Expertise
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37848 posts
Fri Aug-04-00 04:55 AM

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5. "Wrong."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

You're talking about voting for this kat and you don't even know what he's all about....take a look at this link..

http://www.greenparty.org/

There, if you look up the Updated Platform, and then check under Economic Democracy, you'll see this...

Democratic Conversion of Big Business: Mandatory break-up and conversion to democratic worker, consumer, and/or public ownership on a human scale of the largest 500 US industrial and commercial corporations that account for about 10% of employees, 50% of profits, 70% of sales, and 90% of manufacturing assets.

In other words, Nader and the boys want government to seize the 500 biggest businesses in the country. If that isn't socialism, I dunno what is.

How about next time actually reading what they are all about before you decide your vote instead of voting for them because they are "different".

You have had the pleasure of reading
Expertise's posts.

Okayplayer forum, Boondocks forum,
Blackplanet member (but I don't do
anything there now but email because
it's lame), member of Go Network's
African-American Chatroom
(AmericasRealExpert, YoungIntellect),
and a member of Yahoo.com (real_expert,
expertise.rm)

And a PROUD black conservative.

"Darkness comes so others may see the
light"

Expertise@rocketmail.com or
therealexpert@hotmail.com

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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Fletch

Fri Aug-04-00 05:51 AM

  
6. "Let the quote battle begin"
In response to Reply # 5


          


Here's their description:

"Rejecting all simplistic dogma as to either private or public ownership of productive wealth, Greens take a pragmatic approach that recognizes the need for diverse forms of enterprise and ownership to deal with diverse circumstances and the centrality of goods and services provided by
households, voluntary associations, and ecosystems as well as by private and public enterprises.
Greens support democratic self-management in all five of the economic sectors-private, public, domestic, associative, and ecological-that Green
economics values.

The Private Sector: Greens support a maximum of free initiative for individuals, small companies, and cooperatives, enabling all people to earn
a decent living in useful, meaningful vocations within a democratically regulated economy that meets human needs and sustains the environment. We support private enterprises that are democratic, especially cooperatives. "


Allright, now find the part in there that describes nationalization of all industry.

You can call it left-wing if you want, but get your terms right at least.

Maybe YOU should read through the whole web stie before calling someone a socialist. Though given the conservative tendency to classify anything even remotely progressive as a socialist plot (remember fluoridated water?), I guess it's not surprising.

Fletch

Fletch

  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Fri Aug-04-00 06:10 AM

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7. "socialism: its not a bad word anymore ..."
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Actually it never was. Quit talking like capitalism has benefitted anyone but the rich. We are all exploited under this rotten-ass system: that is the nature of the beast. If anything, bringing in someone who is more socialist-leaning will help to redistribute the ridiculuosly-off-balance scales of wealth in this country.

love and respect,
El Rey


http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org

CELEBRATING AUGUST AS ... aw fuck it, it's ME'SHELL MONTH up in this joint!

Are you free? Truly Free. Do you believe everything that you hear? Everything that you see? Can you tell me if you're free?

I try to tell folks, do you think if Elian, you know ... the little kid from Cuba ... was from Haiti, that we'd be having all this? If he was my color do you think we'd be having all this news shit? I don't think so. Or if he was a refugee from Rwanda do you think we'd be going through any of this? Wouldn't be such headline news. Do you believe everything that you hear and see? America's got you believing that Communism is right at your door, so boycott Cuba. Don't believe everything that you hear and everything that you see.

It's so sad. I get so sad some times. The only way to feel superior is to crush out the others. Cuz you sell your soul like you sell a piece of ass ... a slave to dead white leaders on paper. Welfare cases, rapists and hoes, all reinforced by videos and T.V. shows. Jail is a sancutary for the walking dead. It fucks with your head when every black leader ends up dead. Somebody said: our greatest destiny is to become white. But white is not pure and hate is not pride. Just cuz Civil Rights is law doesn't mean that you abide. So tell me ... are you free? -- Me'Shell Ndegeocello, from a live Web broadcast of "Dead Nigga Blvd."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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Expertise
Charter member
37848 posts
Fri Aug-04-00 06:56 AM

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9. "RE: socialism: its not a bad word anymore ..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

You've lost your mind.

Socialism will do nothing but hurt this country. Hell, if Nader even got half of the Green Party's agenda accomplished, the US would be totally bankrupt, not to mention absolute chaos.

Nader and folks like him need to go to Europe. They have no clue about economics in America or the world for that matter. Most of the people that support him only do it just to get out of the status quo of voting for Bush and Gore. They really can't fathom what a Nader presidency could do to this country. It would send it into a economic black hole.

You have had the pleasure of reading
Expertise's posts.

Okayplayer forum, Boondocks forum,
Blackplanet member (but I don't do
anything there now but email because
it's lame), member of Go Network's
African-American Chatroom
(AmericasRealExpert, YoungIntellect),
and a member of Yahoo.com (real_expert,
expertise.rm)

And a PROUD black conservative.

"Darkness comes so others may see the
light"

Expertise@rocketmail.com or
therealexpert@hotmail.com

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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krewcial
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3268 posts
Sun Aug-06-00 08:14 PM

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16. "huh ?"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>Socialism will do nothing but hurt
>this country. Hell, if
>Nader even got half of
>the Green Party's agenda accomplished,
>the US would be totally
>bankrupt, not to mention absolute
>chaos.

How ?
Why ?

A pretty bold statement, especially if you don't explain WHY.

Is it just FACT ?

>Nader and folks like him need
>to go to Europe.
>They have no clue about
>economics in America or the
>world for that matter.

>Most of the people that
>support him only do it
>just to get out of
>the status quo of voting
>for Bush and Gore.
>They really can't fathom what
>a Nader presidency could do
>to this country. It
>would send it into a
>economic black hole.

Again : why and how ?


krewc

OKAYPLAYER COMPILATION 2000 !!!
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OKAYPLAYERSONG PT. 2 :
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Expertise
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Sun Aug-06-00 10:50 PM

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20. "RE: huh ?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

>>Socialism will do nothing but hurt
>>this country. Hell, if
>>Nader even got half of
>>the Green Party's agenda accomplished,
>>the US would be totally
>>bankrupt, not to mention absolute
>>chaos.
>
>How ?
>Why ?
>
>A pretty bold statement, especially if
>you don't explain WHY.

It's not bold, it's real easy....and I'll only use two of his ideas.

1. Nader wants to break up the Fortune 500.
The economy is all but fueled on those companies, whether it's simply our nation's economy or the world's economy, considering that alot of these companies have international interests. In breaking them up, the economy will freeze, because you have to break it up, make up new management, set up labor, etc. Look how long it is taking just to break up Microsoft. Not only do you have to break up 500 more, but do you think they will make as much money as the Microsoft conglomerate made? No, because they will be without alot of the functions that held Microsoft together and they will have to up their costs for running the divisions. So not only will they be less efficient, but even more costly.
Second, the Fortune 500 are PUBLIC companies...companies whose shares are sold and bought on the stock market. Hence, where is the compensation for the stockholder's shares? Or does he intend to rob them too?

2. Nader wants every household to make at least $26,000/yr.
First of all, if you don't make $26,000/yr, you shouldn't have a family. Second, where in the hell is he going to get the money to give every family $26,000?? That's absolutely retarded. Remember that we do have something called a national debt already. Trying to play out this stupid scheme would only double or even triple that amount. Let me remind you that government doesn't have any money, it only manages the money given to them by taxpayers. Therefore, when government spends money, they are spending taxpayers' money. When government collects taxes, they are collecting taxpayer's money. And when government gives someone more money than they were suppose to get back, they are taking the taxes from one person and giving it to another. It's called robbery.

Now look at some of the other things Nader wants done...

3. Free health care, education, jobs, and housing.
Once again, where are you going to get all the money to make it happen.....

4. Allow workers to vote for their own management.
WHAT? Such a law would stymie the company and would not cause unneeded tension and conflict in the workplace. How retarded. It's a company, not a government.

5. Get rid of the US Senate.
Well I hope you live in California or New York, because that's a few of the only states that will have good representation in government.

5. Seize the top 200 banks in the country, along with 80% of their assets.
Now THIS is funny. Nader is going to rob the people of their money so he can have enough to fulfill his programs. It doesn't matter WHO it is, he's just going to take the money. This is the essence of socialism: have a Robin Hood mentality...take from the ones that are successful and give to the ones that are not. If you do that, then what's the use of advancing? What's the use of being successful? Socialism and oommunism does nothing but stalemate their own economic potential. There has never been a successful communist country nor a socialist country, and never will be.

Ralph Nader is a nut if he thinks he will be able to accomplish all this garbage. Let's say one election he does indeed pull this off....most of this mess wouldn't slide through Congress, especially the elimination of the Senate. He legally has no justification for destroying the Fortune 500 nor seizing the 200 banks. His whole campaign is a joke, and so are the people voting for them. They all need to gain a little common sense.

You have had the pleasure of reading
Expertise's posts.

Okayplayer forum, Boondocks forum,
Blackplanet member (but I don't do
anything there now but email because
it's lame), member of Go Network's
African-American Chatroom
(AmericasRealExpert, YoungIntellect),
and a member of Yahoo.com (real_expert,
expertise.rm)

And a PROUD black conservative.

"Darkness comes so others may see the
light"

Expertise@rocketmail.com or
therealexpert@hotmail.com

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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Zesi
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Sun Aug-06-00 04:35 AM

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13. "a question..."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I'm not aligned with any party at the moment, and I'm looking at the Green Party's platform, which calls for a lot of federally funded projects...which means taxes on me. They say that they will have a progressive income tax...but I don't know how much money that will end up costing me.

Also, with Nader's party not in the majority of Congress, most of these measures will be shot down or watered down even with the presidential power to veto. Also, breaking up the Fortune 500 into publically owned companies, which would be lovely, could create a big A problem. I don't even know if the government has the power to do so legally. The party's ideas are admirable...but in practice...will they work?

http://www.funkknots.com look at the wonderful art! No it ain't mine! Just go there!Support your fellow player, ffunkknots

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Expertise
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37848 posts
Fri Aug-04-00 06:51 AM

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8. "RE: Let the quote battle begin"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Look, a socialist country does not own every business in the country, just the major ones. You're thinking of communists. But you're close. Socialism is just one step of communism.

Socialism simply means that government has a major stake in the business and economic sector of the country. Not only does Nader want to take over the fortune 500, but they also want to own the top 200 banks. Also, they want to make sure that no business gets more than 10% of their respected market. In other words, the government is holding back the progress of businesses and the economy from the private sector. Such craziness would only spell trouble for the country. That's why the US is on top of the economic food chain, and everyone isn't.

You have had the pleasure of reading
Expertise's posts.

Okayplayer forum, Boondocks forum,
Blackplanet member (but I don't do
anything there now but email because
it's lame), member of Go Network's
African-American Chatroom
(AmericasRealExpert, YoungIntellect),
and a member of Yahoo.com (real_expert,
expertise.rm)

And a PROUD black conservative.

"Darkness comes so others may see the
light"

Expertise@rocketmail.com or
therealexpert@hotmail.com

_________________________
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http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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krewcial
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Sun Aug-06-00 08:19 PM

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17. "huh pt. 2 ?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>Socialism simply means that government has
>a major stake in the
>business and economic sector of
>the country. Not only
>does Nader want to take
>over the fortune 500, but
>they also want to own
>the top 200 banks.
>Also, they want to make
>sure that no business gets
>more than 10% of their
>respected market. In other
>words, the government is holding
>back the progress of
>businesses and the economy from
>the private sector.

Or : "in other words, the government is holding back the exploitation of common people and stopping the funding of military expenses and nuclear warfare through taxpayer's money".

That's my interpretation.

>Such
>craziness would only spell trouble
>for the country. That's
>why the US is on
>top of the economic food
>chain, and everyone isn't.

Oh, so you're actually proud or happy with how the US got where they are today ?

Neo-colonialism, exploitation, embargos, economical and social warfare, sweatshops, nuclear bombing, ...

Congratulations !



krewc


OKAYPLAYER COMPILATION 2000 !!!
http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/okpcompil2000.htm

OKAYPLAYERSONG PT. 2 :
http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/audio/okp2s.mp3

OKAYPLAYERSONG PT. 1 (the original baybee !!):
http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/audio/okplayer.mp3

HOME : http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators

I'm part of this too ... :
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the instrumentals for my next album (in MP3-format) :
http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/audio/instrus.html


'We've got to change our own minds about each other. We have to see each other with new eyes. We have to see each other as brothers and sisters. We have to come together with warmth'

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
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Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

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Expertise
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Sun Aug-06-00 10:07 PM

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19. "RE: huh pt. 2 ?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

>Or : "in other words, the
>government is holding back the
>exploitation of common people and
>stopping the funding of military
>expenses and nuclear warfare through
>taxpayer's money".
>
>That's my interpretation.

Exploitation. Yeah right.
Not every corporation or individual that is successful has done it through criminal activity or by oppression. Therefore, if they MAKE the money legally, then what's the problem? There are already government controls on the books now that prevents monopolies.
As far as military expenses are concerned, the military is it's weakest ever in history. Clinton has all but killed the nation's defense system. Hence, not all that money is going towards the military or nuclear weapons as you would suggest.

>>Such
>>craziness would only spell trouble
>>for the country. That's
>>why the US is on
>>top of the economic food
>>chain, and everyone isn't.
>
>Oh, so you're actually proud or
>happy with how the US
>got where they are today
>?
>
>Neo-colonialism, exploitation, embargos, economical and social
>warfare, sweatshops, nuclear bombing, ...

And what country HASN'T done those things in the past? And the US simply did not get ahead just because of those things (especially nuclear bombing and embargoing.). Yes the US has done things in the past that are downright horrible, but to try to stand on that aspect of history is doing nothing but holding yourself back. Plus, all socialism will do is make things even worse than what has already happened.

You have had the pleasure of reading
Expertise's posts.

Okayplayer forum, Boondocks forum,
Blackplanet member (but I don't do
anything there now but email because
it's lame), member of Go Network's
African-American Chatroom
(AmericasRealExpert, YoungIntellect),
and a member of Yahoo.com (real_expert,
expertise.rm)

And a PROUD black conservative.

"Darkness comes so others may see the
light"

Expertise@rocketmail.com or
therealexpert@hotmail.com

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

  

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elena

Sat Aug-05-00 06:20 PM

  
10. "urban myth"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Ain't Fallin' For That One Again

Originally posted at Grassroots.com



I think the first time I remember hearing this political urban myth was in the 1976 presidential election. Somebody told me the reason I had to vote for Jimmy Carter was because if Gerald Ford was elected, women would lose their right to chose to have an abortion. Abortion had been legal for only three years at that point. It was considered a great victory, one we all wanted to support.
So, I voted for Jimmy Carter -- and guess what? One of the things he did was to stop all abortions provided for women or wives in the armed services! He also stopped any further funding to birth control groups overseas that offered abortion as an alternative. And he ended all Medicaid payments for poor women in need of an abortion.

I felt a bit abused. I mean, Gerry Ford had been pro-choice. His wife was an ardent supporter of women's rights. And it was a Nixon appointee to the Supreme Court -- Justice Blackmun -- that wrote the majority opinion making abortion legal. What was I thinking? (Other than that the Nixon Nightmare years had to come to an end! That, I correctly rationalized, was worth the vote for Carter.)

Four years later, Democrats and liberals were going nuts over the possibility that Ronald Reagan might unseat Carter. Dire warnings were issued to all: If Reagan gets in, abortion will be illegal, period.

Well, I didn't vote for Reagan OR Carter, Reagan got in, and then something strange happened: Abortion remained legal! Sure, Reagan built on Carter's abortion restrictions, but Roe v. Wade was still the law of the land when the Gipper rode off into the sunset eight years later.

Yet Reagan had appointed plenty of wingnuts to the Supreme Court, so when the doomsayers in 1988 warned that George Bush would CERTAINLY send women back to the alleys to have illegal abortions, another bizarre thing happened -- Bush got elected, and ... four years later ... ABORTION WAS STILL LEGAL!

But Bush did leave us with Clarence Thomas, so when the Democrats came to scare the bejeepers out of me with what Bush would do to a woman's right to choose if he got a second term, I decided to vote for Bill Clinton.


Which brings us to Ralph Nader. Vice President Al Gore, on Meet the Press this week, told Tim Russert WHAT WOULD HAPPEN if George W. were elected president. Women would lose their right to have an abortion, Gore bellowed, with no equivocation and no hint of shame for what has happened on the Clinton/Gore watch.

All the pundits -- and the Democrats -- tell us that a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush because all Ralph will end up doing is siphoning off votes that would have gone to Gore. This is their mantra:

"IF BUSH IS ELECTED, HE WILL APPOINT JUSTICES TO THE SUPREME COURT AND THEY WILL DECLARE ABORTION ILLEGAL!"

Well, I've fallen for this before and I ain't fallin' for it again. In fact, I will go so far as to say that George W. Bush, if for some reason he is magically elected, will NEVER do ANYTHING to make abortion illegal.

Here's my proof:

1. To recap what I have already stated: Roe v. Wade was written by a Republican, and upheld for 27 years by Republicans. No Republican president has made abortion illegal, and none will this time around.

2. George W. is, first and only, a politician. For crying out loud, if 70% of the country favors legal abortion, trust me, that party boy is NEVER going to cook his goose on this issue. He is already moving to the center on abortion and has been doing so since the primaries. He wants to win. He already has the majority of women supporting him in the polls, in part because a lot of women are confident he will not upset this apple cart.

3. The New York Times two weeks ago did a study of Bush's court appointees in Texas and found that he did NOT appoint right-wing crazies, but rather moderates or moderate conservatives who have upheld legal abortion in Texas and struck down some cases that tried to put restrictions on a woman's right to choose.

4. Sometimes even conservatives end up accepting that the tide has turned against them. The most stunning example of this came last month when ultra-conservative Chief Justice William Rehnquist insisted on writing the MAJORITY opinion for the court upholding the Miranda ruling that requires the police to inform an arrestee of his or her constitutional rights. Now, you know a guy like Rehnquist personally just hates forcing the police to read someone their rights. But in his decision keeping Miranda the law of the land, Rehnquist wrote that the Miranda rights are now "part of the American culture" and therefore should not be done away with. Even pro-Miranda liberals had never heard that line used by the Supreme Court in backing a decision, but it was, in essence, the truth. Reading someone their rights is now like apple pie -- and so is a woman's right to chose what to do if she should become pregnant. The overwhelming majority of Americans believe it a decision best left with a woman, her doctor, her God -- and it's nobody else's dang business. That, too, is part of the American culture. It's called privacy, and it's been around for over 200 years. Nobody, regardless of their political stripe, wants the politicians or the justices in their bedroom.

So, this year, I'm not going to let the fearmongers scare me into voting against my conscience. And I'm not going to let the Democratic candidate for president cynically use this issue when he himself has served in D.C. for 8 years allowing the right to get an abortion to be whittled away to near nothing.

Plus, I believe the true Nader constituency out there is among the 100 million nonvoters who have given up, thinking they no longer have a say in what really goes on in Washington. Gore shouldn't worry about Ralph taking votes from him. Rather he should think about what his administration with Bill Clinton has taken away from the women of this nation.

Come November 7, I plan to enter the voting booth and vote not from fear, but from a desire to see this country returned to the people.

Michael Moore
July 18th, 2000



"And I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breath it,
And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it,
But I'll know my song well before I start singin'" Bob Dylan

  

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Zesi
Charter member
24062 posts
Sun Aug-06-00 04:15 AM

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11. "I can't vote for a person simply because of a single issue"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

You just can't. And while abortion is an important issue, the economic-social-political strangling of the poor is of more concern to me.

http://www.funkknots.com look at the wonderful art! No it ain't mine! Just go there!Support your fellow player, ffunkknots

"Let them have their toy, we've got books."
Bill Cosby's response to Tavis Smiley of "BET Tonight "regarding the lack of minorities on television."

"Multiculturalism is a white people joke. Black people have always been here as different. People need to stop saying that there is one way to be--and then the issue will disappear." Ntozake Shange-interview in _Mother_ _Jones_

  

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Zesi
Charter member
24062 posts
Sun Aug-06-00 04:17 AM

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12. "p.s."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

that's not to say Nader is a bad candidate.

http://www.funkknots.com look at the wonderful art! No it ain't mine! Just go there!Support your fellow player, ffunkknots

"Let them have their toy, we've got books."
Bill Cosby's response to Tavis Smiley of "BET Tonight "regarding the lack of minorities on television."

"Multiculturalism is a white people joke. Black people have always been here as different. People need to stop saying that there is one way to be--and then the issue will disappear." Ntozake Shange-interview in _Mother_ _Jones_

  

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Battousai
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4386 posts
Sun Aug-06-00 07:25 PM

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14. "EFF EVERYONE! BRING BACK THE WHIGS! (n/m)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

----------------------------------------
Densetsu no hitokiri, Himura Battousai.

"If victories are flawless, then what are you gonna land on?" - Thirstin Howl III

"I prefer manga, with mecha..." - Del

http://welcome.to/crunchyfrog/

--

Your San Francisco Giants: 4.26.2005 - 8.15.2005.

  

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Battousai
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Sun Aug-06-00 07:30 PM

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15. "Or..."
In response to Reply # 14


          

I can try to convince the Japanese to export the Liberal Democratic Party to the States. After they're done with the country, everyone will be begging for the Communists.

Just being facetious, folks...

----------------------------------------
Densetsu no hitokiri, Himura Battousai.

"If victories are flawless, then what are you gonna land on?" - Thirstin Howl III

"I prefer manga, with mecha..." - Del

http://welcome.to/crunchyfrog/

--

Your San Francisco Giants: 4.26.2005 - 8.15.2005.

  

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Ursus
Charter member
800 posts
Sun Aug-06-00 09:28 PM

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18. "Follow Your instinct"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think it just comes down to voting for who you agree with the most on the issues. If you think it's time for a change within the political structure and you feel Nader is the closest to doing this then for all means vote for him! If your happy with the way things are and feel America is on the right track then vote for Gore or Bush.
I think all of this name calling, using one's interpretation of the issues against the another's and rumor starting just helps to confuse more people. And in the end one may be so mixed up by all of these interpretations and predictions they may not vote at all.

Pick who you feel the most.
Ursus

"Time is just memory mixed with desire" - Tom Waits

"Silence is the loudest parting word..you never say" -Ben Harper

  

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fire
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111370 posts
Mon Aug-07-00 04:13 AM

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21. "i'm going gore"
In response to Reply # 0


          

especially since he had the cojones to elect leiberman as his running mate.

_______________________________
Celebrating Bitch Month

23july2000
u can't have my fire/they fear'd ur flame/& so sprayed caustic foam out of dbl sided lips/speakin like pale faces
w/broken peace pipes/U BLK/U UGLY/U
INK SPOT/which in it's translation of nigganglish resounded to/I AM BLK/
I AM UGLY/I DON'T HAVE IT SO I CAN'T WANNA LOVE U/beautiful transcriptionist u are...dark elegy/that heightens midnight stars/which pale in daylight
u spot of convection.../u say fierce real slow & be sayin "fire"/turn ur faces now to ur bricked bahamanian sphinx/look at her in ur wanton NEED
to be DARK as the meetin of mary's thighs/to be as BLK as sun spots
as UGLY as her heretofore eradicated nose/LOOK!!! at that blk girl gone blk
gone blue beyond blue beyond u
lookit fire y'all... leavin them w/burnt faces -k l moore
one...- the bad bitch asighn4jane

"respect my genius, suck my penius!" - young isa/my dawg

"respect my month or lick my rump! -fire da BITCH

________________________________________
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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Mon Aug-07-00 08:28 AM

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22. "RE: i'm going gore"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

tru that was an interesting move on his part, but just like we can see with the GOP convention, just because you see that a "minority" is on the ticket don't mean that they got your best interests at heart. I mean, Rudy G. is talking like Lieberman is a "strong" candidate ... this tells me all I need to know. If Rudy's down then I'm suspicious.

Plus, I can't justify voting for another man who supports "NAFTA, WTO, the death penalty, the Cuban embargo, increased Pentagon spending, sleazy HMOs, greedy hospital chains, 250 million guns in our homes, more bombing of Iraq, (and) the rich getting richer" (c)Michael Moore

I just can't ...

love and respect,
El Rey


http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org

CELEBRATING AUGUST AS ... aw fuck it, it's ME'SHELL MONTH up in this joint!

Are you free? Truly Free. Do you believe everything that you hear? Everything that you see? Can you tell me if you're free?

I try to tell folks, do you think if Elian, you know ... the little kid from Cuba ... was from Haiti, that we'd be having all this? If he was my color do you think we'd be having all this news shit? I don't think so. Or if he was a refugee from Rwanda do you think we'd be going through any of this? Wouldn't be such headline news. Do you believe everything that you hear and see? America's got you believing that Communism is right at your door, so boycott Cuba. Don't believe everything that you hear and everything that you see.

It's so sad. I get so sad some times. The only way to feel superior is to crush out the others. Cuz you sell your soul like you sell a piece of ass ... a slave to dead white leaders on paper. Welfare cases, rapists and hoes, all reinforced by videos and T.V. shows. Jail is a sancutary for the walking dead. It fucks with your head when every black leader ends up dead. Somebody said: our greatest destiny is to become white. But white is not pure and hate is not pride. Just cuz Civil Rights is law doesn't mean that you abide. So tell me ... are you free? -- Me'Shell Ndegeocello, from a live Web broadcast of "Dead Nigga Blvd."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Mon Aug-07-00 08:29 AM

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23. "RE: i'm going gore"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

>tru that was an interesting move
>on his part, but just
>like we can see with
>the GOP convention, just because
>you see that a "minority"
>is on the ticket don't
>mean that they got your
>best interests at heart.

by this I was referring to all the black and latino people up on stage supporting Gore ...

love and respect,
El Rey


http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org

CELEBRATING AUGUST AS ... aw fuck it, it's ME'SHELL MONTH up in this joint!

Are you free? Truly Free. Do you believe everything that you hear? Everything that you see? Can you tell me if you're free?

I try to tell folks, do you think if Elian, you know ... the little kid from Cuba ... was from Haiti, that we'd be having all this? If he was my color do you think we'd be having all this news shit? I don't think so. Or if he was a refugee from Rwanda do you think we'd be going through any of this? Wouldn't be such headline news. Do you believe everything that you hear and see? America's got you believing that Communism is right at your door, so boycott Cuba. Don't believe everything that you hear and everything that you see.

It's so sad. I get so sad some times. The only way to feel superior is to crush out the others. Cuz you sell your soul like you sell a piece of ass ... a slave to dead white leaders on paper. Welfare cases, rapists and hoes, all reinforced by videos and T.V. shows. Jail is a sancutary for the walking dead. It fucks with your head when every black leader ends up dead. Somebody said: our greatest destiny is to become white. But white is not pure and hate is not pride. Just cuz Civil Rights is law doesn't mean that you abide. So tell me ... are you free? -- Me'Shell Ndegeocello, from a live Web broadcast of "Dead Nigga Blvd."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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elena

Tue Aug-08-00 05:45 PM

  
24. "RE: i'm going gore"
In response to Reply # 21


          

Yeah, but Nader is on the ballot with Native American Woman!

"And I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breath it,
And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it,
But I'll know my song well before I start singin'" Bob Dylan

  

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