What is a hero?
To little kids a hero is someone who crushes demons, kills the bad guys, etc. Heroes are healthy, have strong hearts, and only work to do good.
The more and more I read into history, the more I realize that my "little kid" understanding of hero is getting swept under the rug.

Columbus, MLK, my favorite uncle, all heroes to me. Until I heard their stories, the real stories, raw, uncut, uncensored. Are they still heroes even though they raped, cheated, and abused? Some yes, and some no depending on how it interfered with what they did that was so good.

Education. Why are kids still continuosly lied to about these "HEROES"? What is the school system, which is ultimately tied to the government really hiding?

And furthermore, if anyone has any dirt on our favorite AMERICAN heroes, please dispurge so I won't go through life mistaken...thanks.


AIM:iLLmeTA

"This is not only a shameless push for this thread...but also a response."-me

iLLmeTA: what's happenin kid?
yardicus: Eh...same isht...different toilet.

THIS IS MY EFFIN MOTTO. SO IF YOU ASK ME THIS, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSE.

"Meta/proceeded by the Ill son/it's real son/like the funky feel one/but I ain't Cypress Hill dunn/The Lone Bird/like GunStar/SPit on single or 8 bars/drop jewels like Nick Cage gone in 60 second stealin' cars...."-yardicus (of yardbird33 fame)

"RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!"-Goldenwon

Are you saying that MLK is no longer your hero? If you got some info please share...

I feel that all the shit they tell you in school ain't worth a damn. Anyone who is your hero should be your hero because you studied and did the knowledge on they not cuz' it was pounded into your head for 12 straight years

p.e.a.c.e.

Hungry...Hip-Hop junkie since 1984

"If you didn't get it...laugh now,then figga the shit out when you get home" -Redman

"You got 11 cars...I don't believe U.
"You smackin' everybody...I don't believe U" -Kool Keith

***************************************************

http://musikofmymind.blogspot.com/

------------------------------------------

Nate Geezie is my least favorite OKP

For 12 years MLK has been let's say the National Hero for every black person in the nation. Or so it seemed.
I viewed him as a pacifist, a preacher who taught which is write and to follow all of the ten commandments, I thought of him as a family man.
I recently found out that this cat had an affair. This interferes not with him being an activist or what not...but it DOES interfere with him being a preacher and a family man. I do think that this lowers his standing on my Hero-o-meter.
But nevertheless, MLK is still a hero just not as much as I thought. But alas, no one is perfect.


AIM:iLLmeTA

"This is not only a shameless push for this thread...but also a response."-me

iLLmeTA: what's happenin kid?
yardicus: Eh...same isht...different toilet.

THIS IS MY EFFIN MOTTO. SO IF YOU ASK ME THIS, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSE.

"Meta/proceeded by the Ill son/it's real son/like the funky feel one/but I ain't Cypress Hill dunn/The Lone Bird/like GunStar/SPit on single or 8 bars/drop jewels like Nick Cage gone in 60 second stealin' cars...."-yardicus (of yardbird33 fame)

"RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!"-Goldenwon

let me let you in on something. no one has ever lived a life free from any blemishes.

that said, to me, a hero is simply someone who steps out of themself an attempts to right a wrong despite a lack of personal gain.

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
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Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

that no one has never lived a life without blemishes. But education, media, blada blada have given kids, and even some adults these ideas of superheroes on TV and in books that are just not legit.

Like I said more and more I realize that my "little kid" view is being demolished slowly.

But why should there be a little kid image in the first place, why should there be this unrealistic idea of a heroes that are quoted after, praised, written about, etc. YOU say that heroes correct wrongs but LK image says they correct OTHERS wrongs and NOT their own.



AIM:iLLmeTA

"This is not only a shameless push for this thread...but also a response."-me

iLLmeTA: what's happenin kid?
yardicus: Eh...same isht...different toilet.

THIS IS MY EFFIN MOTTO. SO IF YOU ASK ME THIS, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSE.

"Meta/proceeded by the Ill son/it's real son/like the funky feel one/but I ain't Cypress Hill dunn/The Lone Bird/like GunStar/SPit on single or 8 bars/drop jewels like Nick Cage gone in 60 second stealin' cars...."-yardicus (of yardbird33 fame)

"RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!"-Goldenwon

>But education, media, blada blada
>have given kids, and even
>some adults these ideas of
>superheroes on TV and in
>books that are just not
>legit.

see, this is the problem with relying on others to teach you everything (not saying you do). i learned in first grade to question and look a little deeper. i saw the hypocracy of columbus day when i was seven, and i ain't special. i juyst learned (as I believe everyone should) to question things. the media is part of the machine. they'll tell you what they want you to hear. period. it's up to us to use what "they" show is as a starting point.

>Like I said more and more
>I realize that my "little
>kid" view is being demolished
>slowly.

happens to everyone. you should have seen my world being crushed when i realized my mother wasn't the Godlike person I thought she was. But despite her imperfection, she's still a hero to me. Again I ask the question: "How heroic does a hero have to be?"

>But why should there be a
>little kid image in the
>first place,

You know what. There are certain pieces of knowledge that you have to be mature enough to handle. You don't teach calculus before you learn to add. Knowledge comes in it's proper season.


------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

AIM:iLLmeTA

"This is not only a shameless push for this thread...but also a response."-me

iLLmeTA: what's happenin kid?
yardicus: Eh...same isht...different toilet.

THIS IS MY EFFIN MOTTO. SO IF YOU ASK ME THIS, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSE.

"Meta/proceeded by the Ill son/it's real son/like the funky feel one/but I ain't Cypress Hill dunn/The Lone Bird/like GunStar/SPit on single or 8 bars/drop jewels like Nick Cage gone in 60 second stealin' cars...."-yardicus (of yardbird33 fame)

"RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!"-Goldenwon

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html

>see, this is the problem with
>relying on others to teach
>you everything (not saying you
>do).
Who else are we supposed to learn from. We may be born with all the answers. But as we grow they are forgotten because of all the TRASH being recycled in the world. Until, someone gives me a reasonable way to learn with out the educational system we have now, I'm gonna keep on using it because without I won't get anywhere, with or without the heroes.

> learned in first
>grade to question and look
>a little deeper. i saw
>the hypocracy of columbus day
> when i was seven,
>and i ain't special. i
>juyst learned (as I believe
>everyone should) to question things.
>the media is part of
>the machine. they'll tell you
>what they want you to
>hear. period. it's up to
>us to use what "they"
>show is as a starting
>point.
Education is not gonna stop any time soon. But parents let these schools and other forms of education teach children that what they teach is what is. How else are we supposed to learn it. There IS nothing else, unless your just extremely smart at 6 or 7, and sometimes older than that. Some don't have access to the RIGHT education. Whatever that is
>
>Again
>I ask the question: "How
>heroic does a hero have
>to be?"
You know what? I believe its varying dependin on the person. Since there are so many images of heroes i don't think two people can peacable have a conversation about who is more heroic and how and why. How heroic? Heroic as I want him/her to be,as I will let them be. MLK is still my hero, to a certain extent, to me he failed as a family man, by having an affair. But as an activist, he's on the top ten. Like I said it varies to what I want him/her to be. Call it selfish if you must.
>

>
>You know what. There are certain
>pieces of knowledge that you
>have to be mature enough
>to handle.
>Right. But how are you supposed to handle that at 6 or 7 years of age. You can't just BE mature at that age. Why did SOME parents who to us are supposed to be heroes not dispel these beliefs that were taught at school. That on their part is a fault as a hero, no matter how heroic or not. .
>
AIM:iLLmeTA

"This is not only a shameless push for this thread...but also a response."-me

iLLmeTA: what's happenin kid?
yardicus: Eh...same isht...different toilet.

THIS IS MY EFFIN MOTTO. SO IF YOU ASK ME THIS, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSE.

"Meta/proceeded by the Ill son/it's real son/like the funky feel one/but I ain't Cypress Hill dunn/The Lone Bird/like GunStar/SPit on single or 8 bars/drop jewels like Nick Cage gone in 60 second stealin' cars...."-yardicus (of yardbird33 fame)

"RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!"-Goldenwon

cool out? i thought we was just dialogin'. did i miss something? anyway....

>Who else are we supposed to
>learn from.

my point is that if you think the media, or the public school system has your best interestes, or the totality of infomation on a subject you'll end up with a skewed perspective and a less than full scope of understanding. again use that as a basis and seek knowledge from other sources. that way when you find out something different later you won't feel as though you've been lied to.

>But as we grow they are forgotten because
>of all the TRASH being
>recycled in the world.

one man's trash is another man's jewel. to some christopher columbus (for example) is a huge hero because he conquered/discovered a "nerw world". to others he is an example of colonistic, self importance. it's all perspective. unless one finds out both sides of the story, any conclusion is tainted by the viewpoint of the storyteller/teacher.

>Until, someone gives me a
>reasonable way to learn with
>out the educational system we
>have now, I'm gonna keep
>on using it because without
>I won't get anywhere, with
>or without the heroes.

why not learn using the current system and the very inquisitiveness that made you bring up this topic. i'm not dissin you, i'm saying don't rely on anybody to do something that you can do for yourself. education is (to me) very much on the individual who seeks to be educated. Take a horse to water....


>Education is not gonna stop any
>time soon. But parents
>let these schools and other
>forms of education teach children
>that what they teach is
>what is. How else
>are we supposed to learn
>it.

this is a different discussion. i think it is unwise for any parent to expect the school system/tv/media/whatever to be the totality of their child's education. parents need to assist in this point blank. on another hand, way too many parents use school as a babysitter nowadays anyway. for far too many WHAT is taught (if anything) is secondary to them having a place to go all day. but i digress.

> Some don't have access
>to the RIGHT education. Whatever
>that is

if you got parents and they can communicate they can teach what they know, if there is a library go look at books. the whle idea of lack of access is getting shakier as technology provides a means to make up for gaps. the key is having a desire to use all the oopportunity at hand to make up for where your knowledge is lacking (as a child/parent/whatever).

>You know what? I believe its
>varying dependin on the person.

i concur, and i go back to the idea that if perfection is the only quantifier then no one is a hero. that said, i believe you can be faulty as hell and still be capable of heroic deeds/thoughts.

> Since there are so
>many images of heroes i
>don't think two people can
>peacable have a conversation about
>who is more heroic and
>how and why.

isn't this one? oh well.

>How heroic? Heroic as I want
>him/her to be,as I will
>let them be. MLK
>is still my hero, to
>a certain extent, to me
>he failed as a family
>man, by having an affair.
> But as an activist,
>he's on the top ten.

this proves my point. everyone one has their failings. they should be applauded for the good they do and we should learn from the not so good. similarly, in some instances failings make one "more human" and therefore a little easier to understand by other non-perfect beings. one could say "he wasn't perfect, he was a regualr man just like me, but he did what he could and changed lives". that's gotta be worth more than to put someone on a pedastal and say "there is an example of a man/woman who had absolutely no faults", because THAT'S unrealistic.

> Like I said it
>varies to what I want
>him/her to be. Call
>it selfish if you must.

it's not selfish, because only you can define who is a hero for you.

>>Right. But how are you supposed to handle that at 6 or 7 years of age. You can't just BE mature at that age. Why did SOME parents who to us are supposed to be heroes not dispel these beliefs that were taught at school. That on their part is a fault as a hero, no matter how heroic or not.

I'm confused. First you say you agree that some knowledge is beyond the understanding of some then you ask why did the parents not give them the full perspective? Didn't you just answer your own question?

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
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-----------------------------

>cool out? i thought we was
>just dialogin'. did i miss
>something? anyway....
Yo money..i'm not upset..not at all. I'm actually enjoyin this dialogue..I'm learnin a lot.


>
>it's all perspective.
>unless one finds out both
>sides of the story, any
>conclusion is tainted by the
>viewpoint of the storyteller/teacher.

U are absolutely right.

>
>why not learn using the current
>system and the very inquisitiveness
>that made you bring up
>this topic. i'm not dissin
>you, i'm saying don't rely
>on anybody to do something
>that you can do for
>yourself. education is (to me)
>very much on the individual
I think education is always there, and yes it is the individuals choice to use it or not, but any other education NOT approved by the gov't or what not is either not available or VERY hard to access or learn. This country is based on the educational system given by the gov't and as far as I can see, its the only way I myself can get anything(well, maybe not everything), money,etc. So of course I'm going to believe, as everyone else will and has. THAT is a fault on myself and all of those people that believe.
>
>if you got parents and they
>can communicate they can teach
>what they know, if there
>is a library go look
>at books. the whle idea
>of lack of access is
>getting shakier as technology provides
>a means to make up
>for gaps. the key is
>having a desire to use
>all the oopportunity at hand
>to make up for where
>your knowledge is lacking (as
>a child/parent/whatever).

I agree but again some don't have that kind of access to the above, leaving them with the same twisted theory of heroism and what is a right and a wrong.

>isn't this one? oh well.
Yesh, this is...I don't Know maybe more in-depth than just over a few wires and a monitor.

>
>this proves my point. everyone one
>has their failings. they should
>be applauded for the good
>they do and we should
>learn from the not so
>good. similarly, in some instances
>failings make one "more human"
>and therefore a little easier
>to understand by other non-perfect
>beings. one could say "he
>wasn't perfect, he was a
>regualr man just like me,
>but he did what he
>could and changed lives". that's
>gotta be worth more than
>to put someone on a
>pedastal and say "there is
>an example of a man/woman
>who had absolutely no faults",
>because THAT'S unrealistic.

very true...that's something to think on Dah. But what happens when that fault interferes with their message. THAT is not a hero to me if they keep preaching the same message but constantly break their own rules. But there are still some who believe what they say (that do as i say ish is for tha birds).



>
>I'm confused. First you say you
>agree that some knowledge is
>beyond the understanding of some
>then you ask why did
>the parents not give them
>the full perspective? Didn't you
>just answer your own question?

Yesh, I suppose. I digress.
AIM:iLLmeTA

"This is not only a shameless push for this thread...but also a response."-me

iLLmeTA: what's happenin kid?
yardicus: Eh...same isht...different toilet.

THIS IS MY EFFIN MOTTO. SO IF YOU ASK ME THIS, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSE.

"Meta/proceeded by the Ill son/it's real son/like the funky feel one/but I ain't Cypress Hill dunn/The Lone Bird/like GunStar/SPit on single or 8 bars/drop jewels like Nick Cage gone in 60 second stealin' cars...."-yardicus (of yardbird33 fame)

"RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!"-Goldenwon

>but any other
>education NOT approved by the
>gov't or what not is
>either not available or VERY
>hard to access or learn.

perhaps. but no struggle no progress right? if you want something bad enough you'll do what you have to to get it.

>its the only way I
>myself can get anything(well, maybe
>not everything), money,etc.

not true, but you seem to pretty much know that. besides, just think of it as a game. the rules say you gotta get a diploma (for example), you got two choices: get one, or not. Either way the choice is yours. Most people that are good at playing a game learn how to bend those rules in their favor. In this instance, learn what they want you to learn to play their game, and then learn MORE so that you can get to a point where you can define your own rules. Knowledge is power. He who holds the keys gets to unlock the doors (full of cliche's today aren't I ).

>of course I'm going to
>believe, as everyone else will
>and has.

This ain't necessarily true either. Going back to who once should define as a hero, if you accept the idea that someone is without fault and hold them up as an example of perfection you're setting yourself up for a fall. Accept folk for what they are, and go from there. I doubt that anyone ever told you that MLK, Columbus, or any other "hero" was perfect, but even if they did, the assumption/acceptance of any "hero" is totally upon the individual who recieves the info. There is an old saying about how "fools will suffer for their lack of knowledge" and it is very true. Don't be a fool (not saying that you are, but I hope you get my point).

>I agree but again some don't
>have that kind of access
>to the above,

...and they will have to make do with the knowledge to which they DO have access. TV/internet/whatever hasn't always existed and folk were MUCH more knowledgeable then because they didn't rely on knowledge to be spoon fed to them by a little box.

>leaving them
>with the same twisted theory
>of heroism and what is
>a right and a wrong.

I think this is a big leap. Right is right and wrong is wrong based upon perspective. Twisted? Ehh. Again, suffer for lack of knowledge. And to tell the truth, when knowledge is brought to the surface, if it destrys a false ideology then that's good right?



>But what happens when that fault interferes with
>their message.

Talk is cheap. If someone acts differently than they live then their words are proven meaningless (again taking into account that we all make mistakes). But again, doing bad things doesn't necessarily negate one's ability to do good. Take Clinton, as a husband he's a scumball, but in terms of how he has treated minorities (generally) during his tenure, he's done pretty good comparatively to his peers. Is he a hero, not necessarily but he has taken a few heroic stances.

The point is this: When you decide who should be viewed as a hero it is better to get as much information for yourself as possible to ensure a decision made with a fully developed scale.

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

I've learned much...boodah-san.
Thanks for your input..I'll definitely take that into account as I continue to search.
And although I don't agree with everything you say as you do with the things i say/type, I'm glad we had the convo.


AIM:iLLmeTA

"This is not only a shameless push for this thread...but also a response."-me

iLLmeTA: what's happenin kid?
yardicus: Eh...same isht...different toilet.

THIS IS MY EFFIN MOTTO. SO IF YOU ASK ME THIS, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSE.

"Meta/proceeded by the Ill son/it's real son/like the funky feel one/but I ain't Cypress Hill dunn/The Lone Bird/like GunStar/SPit on single or 8 bars/drop jewels like Nick Cage gone in 60 second stealin' cars...."-yardicus (of yardbird33 fame)

"RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!"-Goldenwon

damn for real, heroes are people too!

they make mistakes

we all mistakes

it was what you learn from the mistakes and how you grow from them that separates you from the next man / woman ...


----
IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

where my Jersey heads at?!?!?!

okayivyleagueplayer reppin Brown University and NSBE region ONE !!!!

"you're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution .. what's your contribution to life?" - J5

"the rule of allah is god's equality / i desire for my brothers, the same that i desire for me / but when my brother's stay dying, of everything else but old age / my heart fills up with what, RAGE!!!!!" - J-Live (thanks d_dog)

Because without courage, a person will never be able to take a stand against something that everyone else condones.
It is always conveinent for somebody to speak out or take action against something that is widely condemed, but it takes courage to do something "unpopular" or "prideless".

I think heroes are the stuff of legend and like with any legendary character they are myths. Why are people of color so hard on their heroes? Many white americans made Columbus their hero and never questioned his life and work until outsiders (people of color) pointed it out. Heroes are meant to be perfect and part of the stories we tell our kids. It is the moral that teaches, not the person. We still have Columbus Day even though I think the man is not worthy of honor. Myths outlive people.

Mentors are a different story. I have many mentors and they are non-spiritual and spiritual guides that help me navigate my path and stay attuned to the ether around me. I pick and choose what I learn from the examples of mentors. Harriet Tubman is my non-spiritual guide, so is Muhammad Ali and Malcolm X. These people exemplify purpose and true intent but I also learn from their mistakes.

As with any mentor, there is a time and place to exchange and learn and then you move on. Some of my "heroes" are my guides but I separate the myth from reality while I learn. Then, I move on and the myth remains. More than anything, black people need myths and heroes. We need to hold them up just like Columbus.



"No matter who you are or what your age may be, if you want to achieve permanent, sustaining success, the motivation that will drive you toward that goal must come from within." - Ultramagnetic MCs

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.