http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/general2/15827.html

anybody like to continue this discussion before it goes to the wayside?

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
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-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

But you also have to think...what started this new "hot boy" revolution in Hip-hop? Of course the media, yada yada, but also the old heads of hip hop. Why? Who knows, maybe because they simply fell off, and stopped educating folks,stopped shining "light" and became sucked in by the black hole of "money", this issue should be taken into consideration when discussing Why hip-hop stopped being about people uplifting (and not just black folk).


AIM:iLLmeTA

"This is not only a shameless push for this thread...but also a response."-me

iLLmeTA: what's happenin kid?
yardicus: Eh...same isht...different toilet.

THIS IS MY EFFIN MOTTO. SO IF YOU ASK ME THIS, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSE.

"Meta/proceeded by the Ill son/it's real son/like the funky feel one/but I ain't Cypress Hill dunn/The Lone Bird/like GunStar/SPit on single or 8 bars/drop jewels like Nick Cage gone in 60 second stealin' cars...."-yardicus (of yardbird33 fame)

"RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!"-Goldenwon

THe old school folks had a brader scope than just material. Take Rakim for example, he was flash as all hell, but could drop knowledge right next to the verse about his fat gold chanin and how dope he was.

The difference between now an then was the idea that if you focus on more than yourself, that you're soft.

Not all rappers today don't have that balance (take Common for example), but way more DON'T than back in the day.

But I wonder if this is the fault of the rappers, they just pump out what folk want to hear.

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

>Not all rappers today don't have
>that balance but way more DON'T
>than back in the day.
>
Rappers..just like people need role models. I believe that on top of being a rapper you need to be a role model whether good or bad..this is what makes a rapper (in most instances). Old school heads I believe just stopped doing that. AND I also think that they let a little too much light shine in their personal lives where they were all about women, materialism, etc. Secret lives are always more interesting than what one shows to the general public, and those upcoming saw this and wanted to give it spotlight.




AIM:iLLmeTA

"This is not only a shameless push for this thread...but also a response."-me

iLLmeTA: what's happenin kid?
yardicus: Eh...same isht...different toilet.

THIS IS MY EFFIN MOTTO. SO IF YOU ASK ME THIS, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSE.

"Meta/proceeded by the Ill son/it's real son/like the funky feel one/but I ain't Cypress Hill dunn/The Lone Bird/like GunStar/SPit on single or 8 bars/drop jewels like Nick Cage gone in 60 second stealin' cars...."-yardicus (of yardbird33 fame)

"RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!"-Goldenwon

>THe old school folks had a
>broader scope than just material.
>Take Rakim for example, he
>was flash as all hell,
>but could drop knowledge right
>next to the verse about
>his fat gold chanin and
>how dope he was.

And he could feature nothing but heather locklear types (hold up, better update it for the young un's) Pamela Anderson Lee types up in his video. Not that is a bad thing, but for someone talking about save the gods and earths and bomb the rest....

If you are going to make that argument, folks like Juvie, Lil Wayne, Master P, and Jay Z are doing the same thing. You listen close to their big hits, and within the bling bling they will drop one-liners

From "Ha" - juvenile - "know what it is to make nothing out of something"

From "Hard Knock Life" Jay-Z - "...honey's got to strip to pay tuition,... I see your vision Mama.."

I don't even need to go into how much P is all about expressing that he is black owned and independent. Remember No Limit sponsored the Million Youth March.

A lot of so-called conscious heads, are pretty unconscious when it comes to dissecting rhymes, and looking for the jewels within them. They get caught up in watching videos and hearing oversaturation instead of concentrating on what folks are talking about. It's almost like they are the sheep that they hate so much. They get caught up in image and not substance.

But when a Blackstar or a Dead Prez comes out, the coffee shop is buzzing about how it's about time that we had some righteousness. The same cats who aren't listening to current aceyalone, who didn't go out and support PE's last record. That's when you start hearing,"yo dun, homie, mayn, they beats ain't knocking". These same cats will get on a music discussion board and talk about their guilty pleasures. "I know I shouldn't like Shyne, but..."

Hip Hop Heads in general are pretentious fickle bastards that could care less what goes in their headphones. Oh, they will talk your head off about what their new theory is, that they read online or in some non-popular magazine, but they ain't really about it.

Countless groups since the so-called golden age have come out talking that black people are gonna rise, so what is Channel Live doing today? When's the last time you hipped someone to the Coup? I'm not talking about the mass of black people who get their music from commercial radio and BET, but the hip hop heads who are hardcore consumers know release dates but not their own social security #'s. The heads who know the most about hip hop, past, present and future, do not support that kind of hip hop.

All of us deserve what we get. We deserve Mc's that disguise medicine as poison, and vice versa.

fed up...

k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

perhaps in my example my point was lost...

>And he could feature nothing but
>heather locklear types (hold up,
>better update it for the
>young un's) Pamela Anderson Lee
>types up in his video.
> Not that is a
>bad thing, but for someone
>talking about save the gods
>and earths and bomb the
>rest....

then pehaps this was a poor example. my point was that (listen closely) there was an across the board greater sense of community, and uplift before. Again, what i was attempting to express was the fact that at one time the hiphop community (damn near as a whole) thought that it was a medium for expression for a generation. Expressing oour hopes, dreams, history, whatever. I'm not knocking 100% of todays music (nor have I attacked anyone in particular). I'm simply saying that the collective voice of hiphop today seems to be saying "Do what you gotta do to get paid" and to me this is unfortunate.

>If you are going to make
>that argument, folks like Juvie,
>Lil Wayne, Master P, and
>Jay Z are doing the
>same thing. You listen
>close to their big hits,
>and within the bling bling
>they will drop one-liners

This reminds me of the heroes post. Actions gotta match words. If you're talking out of both sides of your mouth you're not doing anything but contributing to the noise. All I want is a little more balance.


>A lot of so-called conscious heads,
>are pretty unconscious when it
>comes to dissecting rhymes, and
>looking for the jewels within
>them.

You'd be amazed. I won't take this as a personal dig, because my own collection (and the fact that I listen to every word on them) contradict this statement, and because I don't particularly see myself as a conscious head anyway. As a matter of fact I will agree. I was in a discussion in the lesson where someone said that anyone who has a deal is a sellout. Blanket staements like that make me shake my head sometimes.

>The same cats who aren't
>listening to current aceyalone, who
>didn't go out and support
>PE's last record. That's
>when you start hearing,"yo dun,
>homie, mayn, they beats ain't
>knocking". These same cats
>will get on a music
>discussion board and talk about
>their guilty pleasures. "I
>know I shouldn't like Shyne,
>but..."

true indeed, and this is why I said I don't necessarily blame that artist because they don't make themselves popular. it's an interesting topic. am i one of those "grandiose mfers" wesley snipes was talking about in Mo Betta Blues because I wanna think sometimes too? I like Juvenile for a bunch of reasons (jay-Z, Tip and a bunch of others folk here hate too), I used to like P till I heard that recipe for crack joint. I just want to hear a little depth sometimes, because if all I do is party the walls will crash around me. Again the key word is balance.

>Hip Hop Heads....

damn you sound a little pissed. bitter?

>When's the
>last time you hipped someone
>to the Coup?

about two weeks ago, at the same time i discussed dead prez. this week i'm pushing jill scott actually.

>All of us deserve what we
>get. We deserve Mc's
>that disguise medicine as poison,
>and vice versa.

i'm sorry if my reply seemed "all about me" but can only speak for delf. i hope it didn't seem as though i was defending, moreso just continuing to discuss. after all that I have a question:

So what (if anything) are you/me/we gonna do about it?


don't get fed up just yet.

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

I don't even look to hip hop as a tool for revolution.

I remember in high school, plenty of folks knew the words to 911 is a Joke. I don't think anyone got it.

Even at the highest heights of conscious hip hop, folks singing along, rocking the fashion, they still didn't get it.

But what I personally do, because I am concerned with my local black and brown community

1. I was a professional counselor for a while - I got burnt out, cause the management was more interested in #'s than actual progress. I am now suspicious of any type of non-profit agency as a result. Reading the Fountain Head didn't help.

2. I am a tutor at my local library. - I spend one hour a week teaching 5th graders about fractions. I actually think the kids feel me more cause I'm a young black man as opposed to being a Steve Urkel (i'm actually more of a Stefan, but we can go there later)

3. I pull cats that I know are messing up aside and talk to them. Cats that are doing well, I big em up, and have their back.

4. I stay up on local politics. The kind of elections and votes that could be swayed by 100 votes.

5. I personally avoid bad things to avoid being a statistic. This is one that we should all do.

Hip Hop for me, is a good segue for getting into deeper issues. When I was in radio, we would take time out to speak on issues that affected the black and brown community, whom we misnamed as the core hip hop community.

But as a tool to inspire people, put ideas in their heads...? The average cat isn't looking for a sermon with his beats. It's escapism for blacks and browns. Forget what you heard about Suburban Johnny have ghetto fantasies, ghetto Jamal and Miguel are having those dreams of being a gangsta.

I don't really know what more I can say. I love hip hop, I always have, I always will. But I see hip hop for what it is and was, and what it really says to people. 5% out of 100 might be getting something else from hip hop other than momentary emotional response.

And those 5% were already, ready to recieve.

k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>I don't even look to hip
>hop as a tool for
>revolution.

i disgree...and i think you do too (see below)

> I don't think anyone
>got it.

you'd be amazed. remember when you first learned the alphabet song. at first it was just catchy, but it planted the seed in your head abou the order of those letters. besides the folk around you may not have "got it", although i bet more did than you gie credit to, but i PERSONALLY know maany who did (some felt the recognition of a phenomenon they experienced, some wondered if such a thing really exists and were shocked when they found out it did. many will often miss the message, but if one "gets it" then that's better than nothing right. i mean YOU got it didn't you?


>Even at the highest heights of
>conscious hip hop, folks singing
>along, rocking the fashion, they
>still didn't get it.

those were the ones for whom it was just that the fashion. but i'd like to think that even if they didn't get it then that maybe something stuck and they got i now.


>Hip Hop for me, is a
>good segue for getting into
>deeper issues.

so then you do see it as a tool. this is my point. i look at hiphop the same way i look at a hammer. the hammer isn't goiing to build me a house. it's up to me to USE that hammer. I can use it a hundred different ways, some more efficient toward the goal than others, but that doesn't negate it's value as a tool.

>But as a tool to inspire
>people, put ideas in their
>heads...?

again the hammer isn't going to put the nail in the wall either, now is it?

>The average cat
>isn't looking for a sermon
>with his beats.

so preach to the non average cats and slip something in past the "average cats". remember "you must learn"? mad folk danced their behinds off and more than a few took the time to look up the people accociated with the names in the verses. it worked then, and it can work now. to say it won't without trying is defeatism. this music can reach millions. the same way it can make prada, coogi, hilfilger, cristal and a thousand other brands household words it can do the same with concepts a little less throwaway.

>It's escapism for blacks and browns.

On many insances youre absolutely right, but why not utilize it for more? It's like only using the phone book as a booster seat for your baby. There is a wealth of potential that is being ignored.

> Forget what you heard
>about Suburban Johnny have ghetto
>fantasies, ghetto Jamal and Miguel
>are having those dreams of
>being a gangsta.

Nah b, if only for the reason that you cannot exist in a world of 100% fantasy. Not only that but the thngs of fantasy have a reall sneaky way of becomeing the reality if you allow them to.

>And those 5% were already, ready
>to recieve.

so then give those 5% something they crave right?

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

i'm do not agree on the constant money fixation of hip hop, but i'm not surprised by it .... once something gets even remotely popular in this country, it always falls victim to capitalist goals of greed and money, we have a history of making money off of art, most of the time throwing the true essence of the art to the wayside .... i don't like it, but it was destined to happen to hip hop once groups started movin serious units ...

imo, the only way that it can't happen is if hip hop remained what it originated as .. an artform celebrated and practiced by people in mostly urban communities simply for the love of that art ... simply to have fun and / or express one's feelings on a certain subject .. once it went from the streets to the stage, corporations got involved, and yada yada yada ...

this is one of the reasons why i prefer lesser known artists within hip hop ... groups such as the alkaholiks, who can have fun and bug the eff out even though they don't have huge sale ... groups like mop, who bring mad energy without the sales to back it up .. artists like j-live, who can make albums that cover just about every piece of the hip hop spectrum and still struggle to push 100,000 units ... groups like company flow (even though they're broken up) that don't give a shit about how abstract their shit may sound cause they're doing it for themselves ...

i'm also happy that some of these lesser known acts are now getting recognition ... i've been following mos def and kweli since "fortified live" in 97, been following common since "ressurection", and been following the roots since "do you want more" (yes, i was down with each of these artists before i even knew about okayplayer), and i'm very happy that these artists can go on tour and sell respectable amounts .. still, we have a long way to go ...


----
IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

where my Jersey heads at?!?!?!

okayivyleagueplayer reppin Brown University and NSBE region ONE !!!!

"you're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution .. what's your contribution to life?" - J5

"the rule of allah is god's equality / i desire for my brothers, the same that i desire for me / but when my brother's stay dying, of everything else but old age / my heart fills up with what, RAGE!!!!!" - J-Live (thanks d_dog)

>i'm do not agree on the
>constant money fixation of hip
>hop, but i'm not surprised
>by it .... once something
>gets even remotely popular in
>this country, it always falls
>victim to capitalist goals of
>greed and money,

Hip hop has always been about paper. Walking with a Panther, LL Cool J is rocking a Moet Bottle.

Cover to Rebel without a Pause, Chuck D and the posse in front of some American Luxury Cars.

Run DMC names their adidas sneakers after cadilacs.

we have
>a history of making money
>off of art, most of
>the time throwing the true
>essence of the art to
>the wayside .... i don't
>like it, but it was
>destined to happen to hip
>hop once groups started movin
>serious units ...

Plenty of the so-called righteous groups sold more records to white kids than black kids and brown kids. As a result, everybody started to rock leather medallions. And when the fad played out, so did the nationalism.

>imo, the only way that it
>can't happen is if hip
>hop remained what it originated
>as .. an artform celebrated
>and practiced by people in
>mostly urban communities simply for
>the love of that art

I don't know what urban community you are from, but no one now or then was doing hip hop for the love. You forget that Kool Herc was getting payed to do those parties. He wasn't inspired by some mystery ghetto altruism. Watch Wildstyle, they are about ho's and getting pissy. Fools came out rocking Derby's and tommy guns.

>... simply to have fun
>and / or express one's
>feelings on a certain subject
>.. once it went from
>the streets to the stage,
>corporations got involved, and yada
>yada yada ...

Corporation's don't have anything to do it. They only ride the wave of what is really going on.

>this is one of the reasons
>why i prefer lesser known
>artists within hip hop ...
>groups such as the alkaholiks,
>who can have fun and
>bug the eff out even
>though they don't have huge
>sale ...

The alkaholiks, whom I like a lot, does not compare to the "fun" groups of back in the Day. Kool G rap and Big Daddy Kane could be a Gangster and a Pimp, but at the same time "Erase Racism". When's the last time the Liks did anything on that level. (you could make an argument for the Lootpacks' first 12", but that might be a bit to obscure for the rest of the group)

groups like mop,
>who bring mad energy without
>the sales to back it
>up .. artists like j-live,
>who can make albums that
>cover just about every piece
>of the hip hop spectrum
>and still struggle to push
>100,000 units ... groups like
>company flow (even though they're
>broken up) that don't give
>a shit about how abstract
>their shit may sound cause
>they're doing it for themselves

It's all image. Jus, Len, and El are just folks trying to make a dollar. They are willing to do some illegal ish to get their music made. I don't know how many times they talk about selling a ton of wee in order to make fun crusher plus.

>...
>
>i'm also happy that some of
>these lesser known acts are
>now getting recognition ... i've
>been following mos def and
>kweli since "fortified live" in
>97, been following common since
>"ressurection", and been following the
>roots since "do you want
>more" (yes, i was down
>with each of these artists
>before i even knew about
>okayplayer),

I won't even get on the roots. I've got respect for all the artists that made this board happen, but considering what they are capable of, they aren't even trying to do what Dead Prez, a far less talented group compared to the folks who run this site, are doing. (and if anyone wants to debate Black Thought or Common vs M-1 and Stic Man, we could take this to the Lesson).

Kari Orr
giraffe killer
disenchanted hip hop head.
mad at the world, and taking it out on okayplayer.

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>>i'm do not agree on the
>>constant money fixation of hip
>>hop, but i'm not surprised
>>by it .... once something
>>gets even remotely popular in
>>this country, it always falls
>>victim to capitalist goals of
>>greed and money,
>
>Hip hop has always been about
>paper. Walking with a
>Panther, LL Cool J is
>rocking a Moet Bottle.
>
>Cover to Rebel without a Pause,
>Chuck D and the posse
>in front of some American
>Luxury Cars.
>
>Run DMC names their adidas sneakers
>after cadilacs.
>


that's true, money has always been an issue, but you don't think that it began to get focued on more intensely when record companies started getting into the act? the album covers that you mentioned are a long way from the pixel pixel no limit and cash money covers ... and rakim's flaunts of ice and money are a far cry from some of stuff around today ... like boodah said in one of the earlier posts, more balance is needed ...



> we have
>>a history of making money
>>off of art, most of
>>the time throwing the true
>>essence of the art to
>>the wayside .... i don't
>>like it, but it was
>>destined to happen to hip
>>hop once groups started movin
>>serious units ...
>
>Plenty of the so-called righteous groups
>sold more records to white
>kids than black kids and
>brown kids. As a
>result, everybody started to rock
>leather medallions. And when
>the fad played out, so
>did the nationalism.
>

i don't understand how this corresponds to what i said ... i do agree that many of the "conscious" groups sold alot to white kids (i.e. "fight the power"), but i don't understand where you're going with this ...



>>imo, the only way that it
>>can't happen is if hip
>>hop remained what it originated
>>as .. an artform celebrated
>>and practiced by people in
>>mostly urban communities simply for
>>the love of that art
>
>I don't know what urban community
>you are from, but no
>one now or then was
>doing hip hop for the
>love. You forget that
>Kool Herc was getting payed
>to do those parties.
>He wasn't inspired by some
>mystery ghetto altruism. Watch
>Wildstyle, they are about ho's
>and getting pissy. Fools
>came out rocking Derby's and
>tommy guns.


aight, well i'm not gonna front like i was there since i'm only 20, so most of what i know about that period is from talking with people who actively participated and reading books ... from what i understand, for the most part people treated it something new and fun ... they didn't think it was gonna last and blowup to this level, is was just a new way to have fun and get paid as you stated ... perhaps i overstated when i said that they did it SIMPLY for the love of the art, because it wasn't even considered in art back then, just something to do while hanging out at a party ...


>
>>... simply to have fun
>>and / or express one's
>>feelings on a certain subject
>>.. once it went from
>>the streets to the stage,
>>corporations got involved, and yada
>>yada yada ...
>
>Corporation's don't have anything to do
>it. They only ride
>the wave of what is
>really going on.
>

hmmm ... you don't think that they encouraged it though? i wouldnt say they don't have ANYTHING to do with, i think that's too strong of a statement ... you are right that they are not at the root of the problem cause they are simply offering an outlet, but that does not make it right ... and yes, that is the nature of companies in america to ride the wave of popularity and then when something else comes along, drop it and move on ...


>>this is one of the reasons
>>why i prefer lesser known
>>artists within hip hop ...
>>groups such as the alkaholiks,
>>who can have fun and
>>bug the eff out even
>>though they don't have huge
>>sale ...
>
>The alkaholiks, whom I like a
>lot, does not compare to
>the "fun" groups of back
>in the Day. Kool
>G rap and Big Daddy
>Kane could be a Gangster
>and a Pimp, but at
>the same time "Erase Racism".
> When's the last time
>the Liks did anything on
>that level. (you could
>make an argument for the
>Lootpacks' first 12", but that
>might be a bit to
>obscure for the rest of
>the group)
>

i don't understand, i was referring to groups that just looked like they were having fun .. why would you bring up "erase racism"? .. just because the liks don't have a song on that level doesn't discredit them, cause they do what they do best, act a fool with good rhymes and beats ...btw what the hell is the name of the song off of the "coast to coast" album, that dealt with young kids smoking, drinking, playing with guns, etc? (the chorus went "this goes once, for my niggaz smokin blunts, twice, for my niggaz rollin dice ... " damn i can't remember it)

>groups like mop,
>>who bring mad energy without
>>the sales to back it
>>up .. artists like j-live,
>>who can make albums that
>>cover just about every piece
>>of the hip hop spectrum
>>and still struggle to push
>>100,000 units ... groups like
>>company flow (even though they're
>>broken up) that don't give
>>a shit about how abstract
>>their shit may sound cause
>>they're doing it for themselves
>
>It's all image. Jus, Len,
>and El are just folks
>trying to make a dollar.
> They are willing to
>do some illegal ish to
>get their music made.
>I don't know how many
>times they talk about selling
>a ton of wee in
>order to make fun crusher
>plus.
>

hehe did coflow really say that? nah but for real, you don't think put time and effort into what they do? i define image as putting up a front or false persona to sell records .. you don't think they want their stuff to sound dope AND sell to? i doubt they would make something intentionally wack just to sell ...

>>...
>>
>>i'm also happy that some of
>>these lesser known acts are
>>now getting recognition ... i've
>>been following mos def and
>>kweli since "fortified live" in
>>97, been following common since
>>"ressurection", and been following the
>>roots since "do you want
>>more" (yes, i was down
>>with each of these artists
>>before i even knew about
>>okayplayer),
>
>I won't even get on the
>roots. I've got respect
>for all the artists that
>made this board happen, but
>considering what they are capable
>of, they aren't even trying
>to do what Dead Prez,
>a far less talented group
>compared to the folks who
>run this site, are doing.
> (and if anyone wants
>to debate Black Thought or
>Common vs M-1 and Stic
>Man, we could take this
>to the Lesson).
>

well who said that they have the same agenda that dead prez do? all artists do not have to share the same agenda, even those often lumped together (like the okayartists) ... no matter what they're "capable" of, i think that dead prez is on another level of thinking (not necessarily a higher one) than thought and the rest of them ...

>Kari Orr
>giraffe killer
>disenchanted hip hop head.
>mad at the world, and taking
>it out on okayplayer.


----
IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

where my Jersey heads at?!?!?!

okayivyleagueplayer reppin Brown University and NSBE region ONE !!!!

"you're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution .. what's your contribution to life?" - J5

"the rule of allah is god's equality / i desire for my brothers, the same that i desire for me / but when my brother's stay dying, of everything else but old age / my heart fills up with what, RAGE!!!!!" - J-Live (thanks d_dog)

gone money crazy. The only thing you here now is bling-bling , rolex, benzes. People like Puff Daddy , Jermaine Dupri are only in it for the loot. Listen to the things they produce. Creativity is lacking in the hip=hop world. Uplifting people does not bring in the bucks.

I think it was with the advent of Puffy and Biggy. I could be wrong but that was the first time i can remember when people started rapping about money and jewelry. I don't know, I think that one song was made...sold millions and the next man came along was like "Hey this shit works" and he did the same thing. From then on it just spread like wildfire. Same thing with R&B. You wouldn't dare catch Luther singing a song about getting an erection while on the dance floor. Hopefully somebody will follow the Roots and Common's lead and we'll get back to where we started.


"Seems like everybody's lost their minds/ and I just might be the next one in line" - Amel Larrieux

work like you don't need the money
love like you never been hurt
dance like you do when nobody's watching--Mindstorm

"I crave more than anything truthful and intense human interaction"--el_rey

"Who loves ya baby? Nobody like Jackie-O...cook, clean, break up ya weed, and I give ya nasty throat"

"When a guy fingers a lady and then smells, licks, sucks the juice off his finger and sighs as if in heaven, she knows this is her lucky day"

I think y'all are ignoring a whole bunch of early hip hop (black music period) just to make a point. Either that or many of you just don't recall due to age.

I am 21 and don't remember most of the early hip hop artist but more than I was not exposed to rap and hip hop until I was in highschool. My parents kept me very sheltered. So its not a selective memory just not knowing. So emlighten us. That's was the board is here for right...

A certain part of hiphop has always been about being fly and having stuff. Go listen to some of them old Kurtis Blow (or similar era) records.

Puffy (as we all know) didn't invent jack.

my only point is that there is far less balance to these scales. i'm not (necessarily) against partying and enjoying the good life, moreso enjoying it at the expense of self and others. Yeah, there were ballers back in the day, but nobody was selling X number of keys to do it. nobody was releving in the death of their peers. nobody was reducing themselves to the level of dogs and calling it fun.

the level of defeatedness in todays music is epidemic. 90% plus of all of todays music (not just hiphop) is about reveling in excess regardless of who you have to hurt to do it. There is little or no family or community at all beyond the "cliques" which only exist to the extent to which the participants get paid. When "Self Destruction" and "We're All in the Same Gang" and MLK Birthday song (Happy Birthday) were out MOST of the major folk participated. Today, if it comes on your label MAYBE. The questions we (or at least I) address is:

What happened to the sense of something beyond what benefits self? How can music return to being used as a social tool?

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

While many of 92's conscious acts just talked about doing & dressed the part.

There's more to "consciousness" (imo) than just being able to say you don't have ass shaking or cristal poppin' in your video. I mean, its a contradiction to me that people will get on the Hot Boys for what they do but cite Pulp Fiction as their favorite movie. Or that people will talk about morality & standing up for what's right when it comes to avoiding certain content but those same acts criticizing don't extend that same morality to investigating & rejecting the labels they sign with for detrimental business practices. Everyone picks their battles and WE ALL have to take the blame for what's going on....there's enough of it to go around.

Or "we're trying to make it" attitude in the music.

Granted that the way they show their ability to strive is thru material things but then who in America doesn't do that?

Its all about perspective. We sit here enjoying the luxury of posting on the net, we have free time. To someone born into nothing - all this can be considered nothing but selfish indulgement & a complete waste of time & resources - yet WE don't feel guilty.

I think that this "we're making money at any cost" thing has to go its course. It may be towards the end because even the southern brothas are stepping up (surpassing) the urban cats when it comes to pulling themselves up from nothing ot having any material thing their heart desires. Once people see that it can be done (thru these images) then the focus will turn to how its done & balancing it out.

>While many of 92's conscious acts
>just talked about doing &
>dressed the part.

I agree. Again there will be those who profess consciousness as a means of having a "down" identity. This is against the point. The point (for me) is how to use this medium as a tool, and to analyze/counteract the prevailing sense of materialism/self destruction/whatever that folks fuss about.

>There's more to "consciousness" (imo) than
>just being able to say
>you don't have ass shaking
>or cristal poppin' in your
>video.

true. and your point is what? apathy and complaceny is just as bad don't you think? what happened to the sense of COMMUNITY (the idea that I wanna say something IMPORTANT, not just what will make me the most $$$)?

>I mean, its
>a contradiction to me that
>people will get on the
>Hot Boys for what they
>do but cite Pulp Fiction
>as their favorite movie.

I see what you're saying: it is hypocritical to single out certain attitudes/actions/influences and not others. but that said, I know Tarantino could give a damn about me and mines (why should he), but for all intensive purposed it hurts me when the faces that are used to destroy the mentality (socially) within MY community are mine. I fully expect the powers in this society to uplift those images that will keep us all being crabs in a bucket, but that don't mean i don't have to ask the crab why they are willing to sacrifice so much for so little.

>Everyone picks their
>battles and WE ALL have
>to take the blame for
>what's going on....there's enough of
>it to go around.

Forget finger pointing, let's concentrate on generation some kind of solutions to counteract that which we see as a problem.
------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

>The point (for me) is how to use this medium as >a tool, and to analyze/counteract the prevailing
>sense of materialism/self destruction/whatever that folks fuss about.

True, see the other post I made. My thing is that there is a certain amount of elitism underneath this constant "cristal/ass shaking is wrong" complaint. Certain types of complacency gets pointed out while its ignored in other areas. Why is it okay for Lauryn Hill to spend a grip on a "conscious" video - money that could be better spent (imo), while its wrong to make a video with a bunch of flossin"? I've see Thought in Timberlands (expensive boots) - no he may not rhyme about them but who cares, they're on his feet...feel me. Isn't it all "flossin" but in a different way? A sense of community should extend to all & be expected of all..not just some.

>I know Tarantino could give a damn about me and >mines (why should he),

true, even more reason not to put money in his pocket but most of us have through support of that movie.

>I fully expect the powers in this society to
>uplift those images that will keep us all being >crabs in a bucket, but that don't mean i don't >have to ask the crab why they are willing to >sacrifice so much for so little.

The problem is everyone assumes the other person is the crab. >

>Forget finger pointing, let's concentrate on
>generation some kind of solutions to counteract >that which we see as a problem.

My solution would be to forget about what the next man is doing & that everyone ask themselves what they have personally sacrificed to assist our community as a whole (not including the things you do that help yourself). Then to pick 10 things they can do - like adopting a child, tutoring a student, sweeping your block every 2 days, offering to babysit for the working mom next door even though you're dead tired, etc.

Instead of waiting to see a positive light, be that light.

We used to call them HBCU (Historically Black Colleges and Universities). anyway I digress....

>My thing is that
>there is a certain amount
>of elitism underneath this constant
>"cristal/ass shaking is wrong" complaint.

I never said that, I said (in a roundabout way) too much of it is a bad thing. big diffference.
maybe it's elitist to think so, but hell I've been called worse.

>Certain types of complacency gets
>pointed out while its ignored
>in other areas.

True....but we were adressing a specific thing. The statement you make is valid, but saying "they're doing it too" doesn't make it any better.

>Why is it okay for Lauryn
>Hill to spend a grip
>on a "conscious" video -
>money that could be better
>spent (imo), while its
>wrong to make a video
>with a bunch of flossin"?

nobody said it was. but then again if somebody spends a million bucks on something that will educate as opposed to spending it on rented cars/houses and clothes is that not even a little better?

>I've see Thought in Timberlands
>(expensive boots) - no he
>may not rhyme about them
>but who cares, they're on
>his feet...feel me.

Not to defend, but if he earned those boots doing something legal and didn't have to prostitute himself/others to get it ain't it better than to reap the windfall of selling keys and such? just another question. i don't begrudge anyone the spoils of their work as long as it isn't "blood money".

>Isn't it all "flossin" but in
>a different way? A sense
>of community should extend to
>all & be expected of
>all..not just some.

Agreed. Flossing ain't nbecessarily bad (again) in and of itself, but what you do to get there and the climate that you contribute to in your display of your floss. Don't make it seem like you got a deal and balled from day one, show some respect for the amount of hard work you gotta do to get and stay there.

>The problem is everyone assumes the other person >is the crab.

not necessarily. crab is as crab does. doesn't it "take one to know one". we're ALL crabs in one way or another. the question is: how do you justify/counterbalance (there's that word again) your crabbiness?

>My solution would be to...

i agree 100% with the rest and have nothing to add. Except, that I hope folks are taking the time to read this you knows things

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

While ignoring others. When its always about how "the cristal poppin emcees are messing US up" it becomes about scapegoating. When's the last time people critiqued themselves, what they do, & considered whether they're playing as much of a role as the next (if not more) in our demise. Its so easy to point the finger.

>>Why is it okay for Lauryn Hill to spend a grip
>>on a "conscious" video - money that could be >better >spent (imo), while its wrong to make a >video with a bunch of flossin"?

>nobody said it was. but then again if somebody >spends a million bucks on something that >will >educate as opposed to spending it on rented >cars/houses and clothes is that not
>even a little better?

not necessarily - that's my point. Waste is waste. I would argue that the negatives outweigh whatever so-called benefits the "community" gets from Lauryn Hill.

>Not to defend, but if he earned those boots >doing something legal and didn't have to >prostitute himself/others to get it ain't it >better than to reap the windfall of selling
>keys and such? i don't begrudge anyone the >spoils of their work as long as it isn't
>"blood money".


1)just because something is legal doesn't make it right.

2) its all "blood money". MCA is a subsidiary for UMG which is a subsidiary of Universal. UMG includes JayZ, DMX & Juvenile on its roster. Is Thought gonna quit working for Universal because they finance/promote those artists? Is it possible that The Roots benefit in any way from the dough generated by those acts? Universal studios is also responsible for Jerry Springer. Not to mention laborer abuses & the waste/over indulgence associated with theme parks. Where do we draw the line at complicity? Ie, why is it okay to work as the accountant for the corporation that traffics drugs but not as the brotha standing on the crrner selling the shit direct?

>Flossing ain't nbecessarily bad (again) in and >of itself, but what you do to get there and the >climate that you contribute to in your
>display of your floss.

Again I ask, where does complicity begin & end? Everyone has to do what they can & live with themselves. I understand having standards but what I don't like is double standards. Most poeple don't truly live by their own moral standards, yet feel perfectly justified in critiquing another individual's choices.

>we're ALL crabs in one way or another. the question is: how do you justify/counterbalance (there's that word again) your crabbiness?

no, i think the goal is to be as right as YOU possibly can. But for most its easier to point fingers at what the next man is/isn't doing - instead of fixing where they are at fault. That's really my main issue with the things I continously hear at this site. When hard pressed most people are just as guilty of fostering negativity within our community (aroundtheway & globall). I want to make it clear to people that they aren't better because they're not shaking their ass in a club wearing Fubu when they're driving a car/wearing Nikes made practically by slave labor or when they're spending $50 on cds walking right past the homeless shelter with needy kids. Ya dig.

>2) its all "blood money". MCA
>is a subsidiary for UMG
>which is a subsidiary of
>Universal. UMG includes JayZ, DMX
>& Juvenile on its roster.

you call that "blood money"? there's a pretty big difference b/t selling DMX records and selling crack IMO. crack physically harms the user, can harm their unborn children if they get pregnant, often influences its users to steal to support its purchase, encourages violence as a tool for market management ("running the block")...I can't see how you can seriously compare that with selling a DMX CD...

> Where do
>we draw the line at
>complicity? Ie, why is it
>okay to work as the
>accountant for the corporation that
>traffics drugs but not as
>the brotha standing on the
>crrner selling the shit direct?

Legally, they're all wrong. If an accountant is convicted of laundering drug profits, he/she goes to jail. So, your point is?

>>Flossing ain't nbecessarily bad (again) in and >of itself, but what you do to get there and the >climate that you contribute to in your
>>display of your floss.
>
>Again I ask, where does complicity
>begin & end? Everyone
>has to do what they
>can & live with themselves.

I disagree here. You can't compare selling CDs to selling crack, I'm sorry. It's not just about living with yourself. When you sell crack, you're selling a physically harmful substance. Same is true for cigarettes, but just because cigarettes are legal, that doesn't mean crack is any less harmful. They both should be banned, ideally.

>I understand having standards but
>what I don't like is
>double standards. Most poeple don't
>truly live by their own
>moral standards, yet feel perfectly
>justified in critiquing another individual's
>choices.

What a generalization. I'm glad to know you have intimate personal knowledge of "most people".

>>we're ALL crabs in one way or another. the question is: how do you justify/counterbalance (there's that word again) your crabbiness?
>
>no, i think the goal is
>to be as right as
>YOU possibly can. But
>for most its easier to
>point fingers at what the
>next man is/isn't doing -
>instead of fixing where they
>are at fault.

I'm not understanding what's underlying your argument. Our entire legal system is based on moral judgments. Most social movements are based on agitating against what some perceive as a "moral wrong". Moral activism is a proud part of the black tradition. Why should we limit our moral outrage to racism, for example? Why can't we express moral outrage at certain lyricism? Unless of course you're saying that moral outrage is wrong as a whole...

That's
>really my main issue with
>the things I continously hear
>at this site. When hard
>pressed most people are just
>as guilty of fostering negativity
>within our community (aroundtheway &
>global).

You're gonna have to define "negativity".

Spread love,

Spirit
http://www.theamphibians.com

August is Top 10 Month...

The 10 Reasons why you should go to http://www.theamphibians.com

(1) the all-american jerk boy awards...guilliani is leading...
(2) for your convenience, we only do updates once every blue moon
(3) because i'll break your legs if you don't
(4) you need a reason to put off clipping your toenails for 7 more minutes
(5) the bizarre user names (mr. bungles, angry armenian, spottieottiedopalicious etc.)
(6) the good posts that get completely unrecognized
(7) the amazingly true story of me getting mugged, somewhere in there
(8) the goofy bios
(9) to figure out what the hell "fermented bells" are
(10) because you're tired of reading this long ass lists of reasons....just click it! http://www.theamphibians.com

9 out of 10 people with two arms find something interesting about http://www.theamphibians.com
This summer: new audio, same odd sense of humor. Don't get "left" out, mossie your two-armed self on over and check it out.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>you call that "blood money"? there's a pretty >big difference b/t selling DMX records and >selling crack IMO. crack physically harms
>the user, can harm their
>unborn children if they get
>pregnant, often influences its users
>to steal to support its
>purchase, encourages violence as a
>tool for market management ("running
>the block")...I can't see how
>you can seriously compare that
>with selling a DMX CD...

What's the difference btwn cigarettes/alcohol & crack - except the fact that cigarettes/alcohol kill more people than all the narcotics combined? So if you work for a company that also sell cigarettes/alcohol or if you buy from a store that sell cigarettes/alcohol, you are supporting drug dealers. But you do what you have too to get by (which is the same excuse the brother selling rock gives). Wanna see violence, let them prohibit cigarettes/alcohol.

Now you guys have to pick a side, either you believe that DMX types are negative & wrong or you don't. If you truly believe that they are wrong then why would you support the companies that put these products out by buying other products they sell...so they can put out more DMX type shit? Why, because you do what you have too to get what you want or feel you need (same exucse the brother selling rock gives).

>Legally, they're all wrong.

The content argument about DMX or the Hot Boys in not a legal one, its about morality. There are many legal acts that are immoral. We pay taxes to a government we know is pouring drugs into our neighborhoods...that is complicity. My point is that people use mad different measuring sticks for morality based on nothing more than personal agenda. If you truly believe that our main problem is brothas selling drugs on the corner but steady send in tax money for the government who responsible for putting the drugs in their hands, you are a hypocrite - plain & simple.
>
>I disagree here. You can't compare selling CDs to selling crack, I'm sorry.

When the companies are using manufactures that engage in the worst human rights/moral violations just to make your precious cds (clothes, computer parts, cars, etc.) - you sure fucking can. Tell it to the pregnant women & children locked up in these sweat shops for days (for example).

>Most poeple don't ruly live by their own moral >standards, yet feel perfectly justified in >critiquing another individual's choices.
>
>What a generalization.

So you feel that most people live by the moral standards they claim to have in all areas of their lives? Fine. But I look around this world & I know that it wouldn't be this way if that were true & the violators aren't just rappers & corner drug dealers. When people take their kids to water parks when people are dying of thirst right across the border - to me there's a problem.

>I'm not understanding what's underlying your
>argument.

It seems quite clear, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The disagreement is in who & what is morally wrong. I feel many of the ones complaining about lyrics like to absolve themselves of responsibility for their own complicity by denying it or the extent of that complicity.

>Most social movements are based on agitating >against what some perceive as a "moral wrong".
>Moral activism is a proud part of the black tradition.

No disagreement.

>Why should we limit our moral outrage to racism, for example?

didn't say we should.

Why can't we express moral outrage at certain lyricism?

you can but I suggest that people atleast be consistent - and I can't see where that is the case. Ie: check all the "so what" posts re: Common's (supposed?) anti-gay comments.

Besides, I am expressing moral outrage - at the what I see is hyprocrisy, blatant elitism/classism.

do you mean HBCU's (Historically Black Colleges and Universities)?

>While many of 92's conscious acts
>just talked about doing &
>dressed the part.

Well, they didn't have millions to give...

>There's more to "consciousness" (imo) than
>just being able to say
>you don't have ass shaking
>or cristal poppin' in your
>video. I mean, its
>a contradiction to me that
>people will get on the
>Hot Boys for what they
>do but cite Pulp Fiction
>as their favorite movie.

Maybe they have no problem with white-on-white violence. Or they think the Hot Boys play up stereotypes that all young black men are drug dealers, while there are no concurrent stereotypes that all white men are hit men (John Travolta's role). Who knows?

Or
>that people will talk about
>morality & standing up for
>what's right when it comes
>to avoiding certain content but
>those same acts criticizing don't
>extend that same morality to
>investigating & rejecting the labels
>they sign with for detrimental
>business practices.

the difference is, the artist creates the content, which they can control (by making or not making it), while artists do not control their labels' business practices (unless you mean artists should do some investigation before signing).

> Everyone picks their
>battles and WE ALL have
>to take the blame for
>what's going on....there's enough of
>it to go around.

Eh? How are we "all" responsible for music a select minority of people make?

Spread love,

Spirit
http://www.theamphibians.com

August is Top 10 Month...

The 10 Reasons why you should go to http://www.theamphibians.com

(1) the all-american jerk boy awards...guilliani is leading...
(2) for your convenience, we only do updates once every blue moon
(3) because i'll break your legs if you don't
(4) you need a reason to put off clipping your toenails for 7 more minutes
(5) the bizarre user names (mr. bungles, angry armenian, spottieottiedopalicious etc.)
(6) the good posts that get completely unrecognized
(7) the amazingly true story of me getting mugged, somewhere in there
(8) the goofy bios
(9) to figure out what the hell "fermented bells" are
(10) because you're tired of reading this long ass lists of reasons....just click it! http://www.theamphibians.com

9 out of 10 people with two arms find something interesting about http://www.theamphibians.com
This summer: new audio, same odd sense of humor. Don't get "left" out, mossie your two-armed self on over and check it out.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>>While many of 92's conscious acts >just talked about doing & dressed the part.
>
>Well, they didn't have millions to
>give...

Many didn't have millions to give in part because they didn't handle their business or take any control over their product much less their destinys. You don't think millions were made off of PE? If PE didn't have millions to give, it is partly their fault. The spirit of entrepreneurship thats underneath the success of Master P or a 2Short is/was not evident in many "concious" acts.

>Maybe they have no problem with white-on-white >violence.

well they should because clearly there is a heavy influence on our community. Who are these rappers imitating when they are constantly referencing the Godfather, Scarface, etc? It doesn't take a genius to see that a lot of white popular culture has had a negative impact on black people. Concentrating on "negative" black acts while allowing ourselves to be inundated with negative material from whites will not solve our problems, particularly when much of the negative behavior by the black male rappers is clearly imitation of the worst of white male patriarchial culture.

>the Hot Boys play up stereotypes that all young >black men are drug dealers, while there are no >concurrent stereotypes that all white men are
>hit men (John Travolta's role).

As a black person, I'm very aware of the totality of who the Hot Boys are. I refuse to view them thru the eyes of racists whites - do you? Since I know that most young black men are not drug dealers (as any black person who actually lives around black people would know), they can't play into what I know is not true. Who's opinion are you worried about, black people's or those of whites?

>the difference is, the artist creates the >content, which they can control (by making or >not making it), while artists do not control >their labels' business practices (unless you >mean artists should do some investigation before
>signing).

please, we are all responsible for all our actions ...period. That includes knowing who we work for/with as much as being accountable for what we say. if an artist has a responsibility to monitor their content then why can't that responsibility include being held accountable for who they associate with & what their business partners are up to? back in the 90s some black quit their jobs at corps that wouldn't divest from S. Africa. If they can do it, so can the artists who claim to be "conscious". if they choose not too, imo, that decision is just as negative as singing about selling crack, imo.

>
>Eh? How are we "all" responsible for music a >select minority of people make?

We are all responsible of our choices. If you make a commercial for Sprite knowing full well (or not even bothering to do simple research that would reveal) that the parent company is poisoning the environment in poorer (most POC) nations (for example) or paying slave wages then you are no better than that brother selling crack on the corner. In fact, you may be worse because atleast that brother is less able to lie to himself or anybody else about his participation in ugliness.

Some sense up on the board.

Hip Hop wasn't some urban eden corrupted by the white devil. Black folks have been and still are throwed in the game. We do some good stuff, and some really messed up stuff. we're human.

Let me be the first to say, it is okay to want a rolex or a hummer. There is nothing wrong with it. There is nothing wrong with talking about it. And for black folks it has never been an issue.

peace
k. orr
calming down at the sight of some reason.

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

King Tee - a Texas native who got big in LA, talked about spending his cash on a chain back in the day.

cover of paid in full - rakim and eric b rocking big dukey chains, gucci, and having wads of cash.

It didn't start with Puffy or Biggy.

k. orr
truth bringer,shatterer of the hip hop myth

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

So my girl the other day side-kicked along with me to the Black book store to get Assata's new book. And she said "I just can't get into that Black Consciousness Thing"

We will always have the people who fight for improvement of society and those who become comfortable with the condition of society. Is that wrong?

I love that there's a such thing called "underground hip hop." Because I fear that when everyone jumps on the bandwagon it will become impure. I love going to a show and being able to just walk up and say "hey that shit was tight." I love not being crowded by all the money, gold, and narrow minds. The vibe is pure but will it remain that way if Hip Hop conscious that is, becomes mainstream?

Their must remain a balance their must always be something for you to be on the opposite end of or stand in the middle from either end. The Bling Bling is neccesary for me to be reminded why I am disgusted with society. And why we are letting a group of 19 and 20 year olds raise or children. And why I am so against this Industrialized capitalistic nation. Why I praise my ancestors who praised the natural earth.

Let the comfortable fall into the sleep of America. It makes my fight stronger. Keep the fight pure and the music innocent "the children always tell the truth."

My qualms come from the fact that we have artist not naming any names who can one minute write and album asking the mayor, governor, and mf president to listen to him but then can turn around and write another album chanting to big booty girls sippn' on Kyrstal about how they got to pay him back. Figure your self out! Are you for the cause or not because that's the type of shit that be f*&king everybody up. Not knowing who to tell the where the revolution is going to be. Okay I over exaggerate but for real I think we do need everybody whether your an artist, entertainer, activist, or a person with two kids and a nine to five...to step up to that level of self-improvement. Find yourself, by yourself.

Long enough...
Peace and Blessings.

>And she said "I just can't
>get into that Black Consciousness
>Thing"

that so many see consciousness (Black or otherwise) as a thing to "get into". This is what happened in the early 90's to hiphop. Another fad came in all that red, black, and green became passe'.

I think we're all aware of the idea that there will always be folk who are comfortable with the status quo (it has and will always be true), but the question is why are those of us who aren't using all this technology and other resources to come together and unite to make a louder voice be heard. AND (and this is the kicker), how many of those who profess consciousness are really open to being conscoius -- or is it merely just the "style" that is being expressed? No, this is not an indictment of the people here at all, but more of an observation of the world at large.

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

that Black folk can't afford. Raise your hand if you haven't heard me say: Black folk CANNOT afford physical or fiscal detachment!!!!!!!! And I'll say again if you haven't heard it.

If you Black, you already in this "Black thing". What's the damn alternative?????????

Live from the Shoe Sto'
and back from making an appearance on the General Boards.....its
NuShooz
I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

....we're famous for "purchasing" things we can't afford on credit. The real problem comes when that bill is due.

It's the exact same mentality that has folk trapped in the "me..now!!!!" mentality. That whole "life is short, enjoy it while you have it", mentality is fine, but can result in some pretty rough days near the end if you ain't careful.
------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
step 1. inform yourself step /step 2. inform others/step 3. discuss the problem /step 4. DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/step 5. EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/step 6. evaluate how well the solution worked/step 7. start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
Coolest thing I've read on OKP recently (courtesy of Quinn):
"when eminem gets on the cover of some teen fan zine with nick from n'sync, kevin from bsb and sisqo, it's because america is more comfortable with a white guy rapping about rapeing his mother than method man rapping about anything."
-------------------------------

I'm calm now. Respect to everyone I"ve responded too. No malice or anger intended.

I see this topic everywhere. I've been online for about 6 years talking about hip hop, from the perspective as head, as college radio dj, a counselor, hip hop organizer, et cetera. This topic never ends.

What do you want hip hop to do for our community?

Right now it is an industry for a lot of folks. Even those folks not making any mone off of it, it is something that keeps them from doing other things.

Do you think hip hop can inspire black and brown children to pursue their educations? To gain skills so that they can participate in a capitalist economy, or devise a different economic system for our community?

If those are the kind of goals you are looking at, hip hop is NOT the answer. On the cool, the 60's didn't have a soundtrack. We weren't being told how to live and what to think by our entertainers. It was folks just like you and me putting their lives on the line. Lynched in the south, beat up in the north, working farms in the West.

You want that world where your children can go into a store and not be considered thieves, or a world where school vouchers is not the solution.

Don't look to hip hop for that answer. Who is hip hop really lead by? 15-30 year old brothers who have not seen nor studied the world at large. Hip Hop is not made by Kweisi Mfume's, Kofi Anaan's, or Nelson Mandela's. Maybe by future black leaders, but they haven't really developed a platform on the mic yet.

Hip Hop ain't starting a revolution. At best, maybe the cultural institution of black music can finally start to benefit our pocket books in a larger way. But the spin off industries from the Bad Boy Project aren't employing neighborhoods.

>is why are those of
>us who aren't using all
>this technology and other resources
>to come together and unite
>to make a louder voice
>be heard. AND (and this
>is the kicker), how many
>of those who profess consciousness
>are really open to being
>conscoius -- or is it
>merely just the "style"

It is. Most of the conscious mc's i've met do not compare to the community leaders that I have met. I've spoke to this one Imam from Brooklyn that was closing down crackhouses, what Hip Hop Mc is trying to even think of something like that? I'm sure you could name a couple of social workers that happen to rhyme, but when it comes down to it, hip hop artists aren't trying to be black panthers or NOI or school board members.

peace
k. orr
You know one of my favorite songs is "Prophets of Rage"

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

LISTENING! I'm not advocating that Q tip be Al Gore's running mate although he's a damn vibrant thing and would get my vote. But that's neither here nor there.

I'm talking about doing your damn share. And we all have a share in this! Secretary, Policeman, Stock Broker, RAPPER, Basketball Player, ALL OF US.

Have you read any of the things that I've been saying. NOBODY especially US has made it on their own. I look at some of these slave narratives and see pictures of figurines of Mammy-s and Uncle Toms, I remember my father working 3 jobs when I was in college. My successes are not mine alone and as a consequence, I have an OBLIGATION to give back. That's what I want these folk - everybody - to do. We CANNOT AFFORD PHYSICAL OR FISCAL ATTACHMENT. The struggle goes on rather you are a conscientious participant or not. But we fight a battle of pricipalities and EVERY DAY & IN EVERY WAY the enemy seeks to destroy and devour you. WE DONT HAVE TIME for me, me, me, me, I got mine, me.
Use "where you are" to get US where we need to be.

>What do you want hip hop
>to do for our community?
What I just said.
>
>
>Do you think hip hop can
>inspire black and brown children
>to pursue their educations?
Brand Nubia certainly inspired me. Am I the exception or the rule. The Children Are Watching and Listening.......And I want them to hear and see more than Lil Kim shaking her ass and flaunting her bling-damn-bling.

>
>If those are the kind of goals you are looking at, hip hop is NOT the answer.
For your own reasons - the 60's explanation that follows - WE ARE ALL responsible for finding an answer.

On the cool,
>the 60's didn't have a soundtrack. We weren't being told how to live and
>what to think by our entertainers. It was folks
>just like you and me putting their lives on the
>line. Lynched in the south, beat up in the
>north, working farms in the West.

Muhammed Ali- remember him? Those brothers at the Olympics....remember them? Ossie Davis, Rubie Dee, Dick Gregory - Athletes and Entertainers using where they were to get us to where we needed to be.

>Don't look to hip hop for that answer. Who is
>hip hop really lead by? 15-30 year old brothers
>who have not seen nor studied the world at large. Hip Hop is not made by Kweisi Mfume's, Kofi Anaan's, or Nelson Mandela's.
>Maybe by future black leaders,
>but they haven't really developed
>a platform on the mic yet.
Then shut up! (Not you, them. And this is a very personal assessment/opinion on how it should be.) Freedom of speech, Freedom of creativity, all good things. But we can't afford friviolity. You think George Bush is playing when he sees Ronald Reagan as a effin hero? WE- Black folk - don't have the luxury of their "world on a string" mentality.

I'm gonna stop here. But I'll be back.

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz

I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

MOST ALL of us aren't doing our share.

When the last time people took up a broom to sweep up around the way? How many people pull a full course load then volunteer to tutor everyday? How much of our discretionary income goes to frivilous bullshit when it could be better spent on clothes/food/etc. for these same kids we complain are being wrongly influenced by rappers? How many conscious artists are sacrificing major label affiliations because the same corp they've signed with promote the very acts they complain about? How many of us are willing not to buy our favorites because of what label they're signed too?

More important than what they see Juvenile doing is what they see you & I doing around them.

> WE DONT HAVE TIME for me, me, me, me,
>I got mine, me. Use "where you are" to get
>US where we need to be.

Well that's what some of the same artists you critique are doing? Umm..Master P is now paying for some backpacker who hates him to attend

>>Do you think hip hop can inspire black and >brown children to pursue their educations?
>Brand Nubia certainly inspired me. Am I the >exception or the rule. The Children Are >Watching and Listening.......And I want them to >hear and see more than Lil Kim shaking her ass >and flaunting her bling-damn-bling.

Lil Kim is inspirational to a lot of people in a positive way. How about she's a poor black girl that turned physical violation & personal exploitation into something that works for her. How about the fact that she had one of the most womanist lyrics in a while in her "Get Money" verse? How about the fact that she's sex positive & confident in her presentation? Does she have issues - yes - but collectively we all do. There is negativtity in Common asking on wax "why you gotta act like a nigga all the time" as though a "nigga" can actual exist. Or what about the "homophobic" that offends many of our brothas & sista?
>>
>On the cool, the 60's didn't have a soundtrack. We weren't being told how to live and >what to think by our entertainers

That's simply not true.

>Muhammed Ali- remember him? Those
>brothers at the Olympics....remember them?

Some would argue that those brothas should've never participated in the Olympics in the first place, ya dig?

>Then shut up! (Not you, them. And this is
>a very personal assessment/opinion on
>how it should be.)

No offense ma but what makes you more qualified or justified in determining what's good & bad for all black people or who is allowed to speak & represent us? That mentality smacks of the very elitism that spawned the whole talented tenth train of thought - an idealogy that had mad faults. fault. Did it ever occur to you that maybe you're the type of black person "our community" can't afford? IMO, the main problem in our community is that we look to much at others rather than checking ourselves. When you've done all that you can, then turn & critique the next man - but be honest, are you doing all that you possibly can?

>MOST ALL of us aren't doing
>our share.
Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes!

>When the last time people took up a broom to sweep up around the way? How
>many people pull a full
>course load then volunteer to
>tutor everyday? How much
>of our discretionary income goes
>to frivilous bullshit when it
>could be better spent on
>clothes/food/etc. for these same kids
>we complain are being wrongly
>influenced by rappers?............
Is this a general statment? Or do I have to quantify and qualify my involvement in order to have an opinion?
>
>> WE DONT HAVE TIME for me, me, me, me,
>>I got mine, me. Use "where you are" to get
>>US where we need to be.
>
>Well that's what some of the
>same artists you critique are
>doing? Umm..Master P is now
>paying for some backpacker who
>hates him to attend
Good for Him! I'm happy that uuummmmm-na-na-na-naaaaaah is helping somebody. (Disclaimer: I could be referencing the wrong song here. Sorry)

>>>Do you think hip hop can inspire black and >brown children to pursue their educations?
>>Brand Nubia certainly inspired me. Am I the >exception or the rule. The Children Are >Watching and Listening.......And I want them to >hear and see more than Lil Kim shaking her ass >and flaunting her bling-damn-bling.
>
>Lil Kim is inspirational to a lot of people in a
>positive way. How about she's a poor black girl that turned physical violation & personal
>exploitation into something that works
>for her.
Would you be championing her if she were....ummmmm...a prostitute? Is that the same thing?

How about the
>fact that she had one of the most womanist lyrics in a while in her "Get Money" verse? How
>about the fact that she's sex positive & confident in her presentation? Does she
>have issues - yes -
>but collectively we all do.
I got bigger fish to fry. So much so that I can do a lot of those volunteer things that you illuded to earlier without having my ass hanging out, flashing my karratts and respecting myself while garnering the respect of others-all at the same time.

>There is negativtity in Common
>asking on wax "why you
>gotta act like a nigga
>all the time" as though
>a "nigga" can actual exist.
>Or what about the "homophobic"
>that offends many of our
>brothas & sista?
YES, YES, YES, YES

>>On the cool, the 60's didn't have a soundtrack. We weren't being told how to live and >what to think by our entertainers
>
>That's simply not true.
You're right. And I didn't say it. check with the author of that thread.

>>Muhammed Ali- remember him? Those
>>brothers at the Olympics....remember them?
>Some would argue that those brothas
>should've never participated in the
>Olympics in the first place,
>ya dig?
No, I dont.

>No offense ma but what makes
>you more qualified or justified
>in determining what's good &
>bad for all black people
>or who is allowed to
>speak & represent us?
No offense taken. Especially when I believe that you've missed me. Can any of us afford to be detached from the other? THAT'S what I'm sayin.

>That mentality smacks of the
>very elitism that spawned the
>whole talented tenth train of
>thought - an idealogy that
>had mad faults. fault.
I truly beleive that you are falsely accusing me. Your very aurgument substantiates my point: Can we afford to be detached from one another?

Did
>it ever occur to you
>that maybe you're the type
>of black person "our community"
>can't afford?
I'm not talking about people as much as I am about attitude. Can we afford to be detached from one another? If you are successful, can we afford for you not to try and reach back and help somebody else?

IMO, the main
>problem in our community is
>that we look to much
>at others rather than checking
>ourselves. When you've done all
>that you can, then turn
>& critique the next man
>- but be honest, are
>you doing all that you
>possibly can?
On the real, HELL YEAH! Every day, using every opportunity......

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz
I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

That's my point.

You say "yes" but I'm sure there are many who do more/different who would disagree, understand?

>do I have to quantify and qualify my involvement
>in order to have an opinion?

Ma, of course you do, especially if you (or anyone) choose to criticize others & what they do/don't do.

>Would you be championing her (lil' Kim) if
>she were....ummmmm...a prostitute? Is
>that the same thing?

I've know prostitutes who are better quality of people than those who aren't. While I wouldn't choose to be a prostitute (for a variety of reasons), nor would i encourage someone to go that route, I refuse to automatically assume that a hooker is automatically a fouler person than someone who's not. Many people are whores, they just all don't walk the streets. I champion Lil' Kim because I like her spirit & the fact that she known for being friendly & approachable. And that she's found a way to rise above some of the ugliness in her life. Not the way I would chose, but she did it

>I got bigger fish to fry. So much so that I can >do a lot of those volunteer things that you >illuded to earlier without having my ass hanging out, flashing my karratts and respecting
>myself while garnering the respect of others-all >at the same time.

That's you, ma. Not only that but the fact that you don't "have your ass hanging out" doesn't necessarily have to be a positive thing. You could be one of those people caught up in the madonna/whore thing. Also, the respect I value doesn't come from not being flashy or scantily clothed. What's important to me is reliability, loyalty, compassion, friendship - I respect those things...and i don't care if they come in a slut or a or a virgin.

>>>Muhammed Ali- remember him? Those
>>>brothers at the Olympics....remember them?
>>Some would argue that those brothas
>>should've never participated in the
>>Olympics in the first place,
>>ya dig?
>No, I dont.

There were many athletes who's convictions didn't allow them to participate in those Olympics at all. >
>>No offense ma but what makes

>Can any of us afford to be detached from the other?

No, so let's not act like our shit is better than the next man's, particularly when we're walking a slippery slope ourselves. That's my point. Each individual should examine his/her life & correct it, do all they can, sacrifice all they can THEN maybe they have the right to look at someone else & point fingers when it comes to these type issues.
>I'm not talking about people as much as I am >about attitude.

But people have the attitudes.>
>IMO, the main

>>- but be honest, are you doing all that you
>>possibly can? On the real, HELL YEAH!
> Every day, using every
>opportunity......

and you don't think there are other blacks who would beg to differ on your self assessment? Who gets to be judge & jury?

peace

of a questionso of "judging" as much as it is a question of doing your share to get us from where we are to where we need to be. I've defended Lil Kim as well......but my original point was do your share.....We CAN NOT AFFORD TO ME DETACHED from one another.......Note: I didn't say I'm better, I didn't say you're worse.....I didn't judge.....NONE OF US CAN AFFORD the DETACHMENT.....NONE -Rappers, Athletes, Execs, Garbage Men,......
We are obligated to the people that came before us....
Until we ALL get OVER, ain nobody going nowhere! I just want us to be about that.......

And Nay, I never feel like I have to lay out what I do. The Book says that if you do something and brag and boast about it HERE on earth before men, then you have recieved your blessing - from men. That ain who I wanna please. So, when it seems that I have to quantify my "good deeds" I will almost always refrain........ So suffice to say, and please take me at my word, that I try very hard to make a difference and carry my share of the load from my corner of the world.......coming to a corner near you- very soon
AND, I don't ask anything from anybody else that I myself would not do.

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz
I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

And the children are watching the media...

Our children are being raised off of TV, Movies, and the radio. Their "idols" and "role models" become these "Platnium stars." It is my job to tell them that there's more to the world than ice and cars. But is also my job to say just because you have money you don't have to also become selfish and greedy. And there is where I need help from Hip Hop, R & B,Rock, Alternative, or Jazz. I can't respect anybody that doesn't respect themselves. You have the world listening at your finger tips and you you just wanna thank God and your mamma for the cars, ice, and big booty hoes in your videos. What??? That just ain't right.

The fact of the matter is that these stars are who these kids are listening to. And as many times as I say to my little sister that Brittany Spears has no heart and soul and knows nothing about your cause. She stills is her look a like. Yes she's young and it hasn't all sunk in and one day it will because I was once (shhhhh!) a NKOTB fan. Long time ago. But what about the new stars today on TV who were there idols how come they never want to change the subject? How come their content with the topic? What is the saying Art is a reflection of the people so is this where are people are at?

I agree everyday people working for the cause know way more than someone who read a book about it but who is the media covering? I'd rather some artist mention some book he read inspiring a youth to go read a research and become that everyday person.

I think I was just babbling but peace.

this is a fad for some. There will always be the one that follow the bright lights. But my faith is within my self because I know embedded in my heart is life and coating my heart is uneasiness because my life is just not right... This is not a movement that I jump into this is a movement that I found out that I was not the only one.

I won't lie this shit is scary and I don't always know if i have the balls to do it but f**K it what will be will be. So I'm screaming and yelling and bring in recruits two at a time. And yes this my style because its me... I can't be anything other than me but believe it this will always be me.

Concious I think I will never be until death but I promise you I will be steady moving towards it.

So I know that your statment wasn't really directed towards anyone but I thought you feeling not alone might help your faith.

i like this discussion, but i don't have time to formulate a full response to anything right now, so i'm just re-posting what i said in the gen. d. thread that inspired this one, with a few typos corrected and one sentance added:

hip-hop is mostly about hand-waving or dick-grabbing, it's hard to turn that around into chin-stroking, you gotta make it into fist pumping for it to be fun, which is what PE used to do. much as i liked the golden age of conscious hip-hop, i'm not the biggest fan of "conscious" music in general. i think that if someone is genuinly conscious, it should come through in their work naturally. it will guide what they allow themself to say and what they feel the need to stress, and their relationship with their audience. i don't like what i see in certain rappers who are always trying be activist, but are really as mediocre as mcs as they are as politicans. to use music or politics to really effect social change, you really have to be commited and the best at it. so why make fair-to-middling music about uplifting the masses that isn't good enough to reach the masses, then take on some nice-but-innefectual social causes that equally only preach to the converted. maybe if you were really good at one of them, something would change. so if you're an artist, focus on that, and let conscious side come through on it's own. same thing goes for the audience, if you're political, you'll naturally see the politics in artists work, they shouldn't have to shove it down your throat. not that artists shouldn't want to combine the two more explicitly - if you can make it work, that's a tremendous achivement. of course there is a pretty unsettling bias against conscious music today, a lot of people really are afraid of it. but i think what that really is about is that now that hip-hop is the dominant pop music, a lot of people are invested in it simply so that they can reap the benefits of pop culture, and are scared to endorse anything that deviates from the hip-pop format.

"I'm every MC by the name of Jay Dee" - Jay Dee

Quinn, you have really been hittin with some serious commentary.
I'm just analyzing.

I agree, though. Hip Hop music will not be used as a political means to solidify a "revolution".
How many rappers do you know who are building communities and starting "10-point programs"?


"Webster's dictionary says wicked is evil, but yo, who is Webster"- ?

We should expect rappers to do/ be able to do what we won't or can't

do you really dwell on the affect it has on our children..yes the little ones. i hear kids as young as thirteen mimicking the verses with the cars, ho's and clothes. there are certain things i do not play around my younger sisters. it is scary to think that what a rapper says can become fact in a 10 year old and 16 year old head(s).
Or even songs such as scrubs or no pigeons..very disrespectful. why demean each other then say that i am proud to be black? if it is about the dollar then my friends we have swam into the deep end without a life preserver.
one


"I try to school these shorties under me/but they can't see from life to death/so know we're back to where we never left/the ghetto/It's a damn shame/knowing it's a man's game/shorty think it's time to make your plans change/all that running around trying to chase whats already here/been there/pops told me to knuckle up/No fear." - Nas

People don't listen to hip hop and then suddenly want to become Malcolm X or Malcolm Little. If that were really the case, the millions of black and brown folks who came up in the so-called golden age, who are now A&R's and music industry execs would be talking about revolution.

I remember little children singing about Farrakhan. They didn't know what it was. The same way they don't really know what Lil Wayne is talking about.

Music can have a profound effect on people, either positive or negative. It can also have NO effect on people.

Think back to the times when the Black Church was THE institution. When we were colored..., you look back at that popular music, and it was just as raunchy as it is now.

I'm tired of laboring this point. Music will not be the catalyst for the revolution. You and I working in our communities to do things will be.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

if some young child...like your son or daughter, young cousin or neice, any young child...say about 5 or 6, was reciting the lyrics to "Back That Thing Up" or "I Don't Want No Short D*ck Man"?

If your child had to LEARN some rap music/hip hop lyrics, whose would you want them to be?????

Live from the Shoe Sto'
....fresh from the Battle
NuShooz

I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

>If your child had to LEARN
>some rap music/hip hop lyrics,
>whose would you want them
>to be?????
When a kid is five, six years old, they're too young to really learn and understand any hip-hop lyrics (both understanding the concepts of the songs and the techincal skills required to write them), so I wouldn't teach it to them like that regardless. When they get older, I'd want them to learn whatever is the best. (And no, that doesn't mean Juvenile, but that's just because his writing is pretty simple. If it's a misogynous MC who's also a brilliant writer like pre-92 Ice Cube or Jay-Z, then they must learn). But y'all falling back on the "what about the kids" excuse is some silly guilt-tripping when you don't have much else left. It's not that important. (A) art should not be restricted by "can we play this for your six year old?". If you really belive that, then go consult with the writers of Barney The Purple Dinasour on how to make music. Never mind that many of them are doing pornographic cartoons on the net to fullfill another side of their creative needs (that's a true story, I knew a guy who wrote for kids shows who did that). (B) if the community the child is growing up has certain values, the music is secondary to it. The kid could know some offensive lyrics by heart and understand how to process them. The kid could grow up with discerning taste. And who's lyrics would I want my kids memormizing? Well, not some "conscious" rapper who preaches his ass off on records and then goes and particapates in all types of evils behind the scenes. I don't want my kids to grow up thinking some good entertainer is a good replacement for a good politican.

"I'm every MC by the name of Jay Dee" - Jay Dee

on child hood psychology......
I've already taken it. And acutally, most of a childs societal lessons are already learned by 5 or 6....so the actual age that I proposed was rhetorical. Sorry, I misrepresented myself.

But my question is very simple. Who's words would you want to hear coming out of their mouths?

You can not choose where all of your childrens lessons come from. So if they child is going to learn some music/lyrics whose would you want them to be?

And for the record, I didn't know what Grand Poobah and Derrick X did when they weren't rapping. Yet I WAS STILL inspired by them. Queen Latifah got caught with some marijuana. So? I still was inspired by the strength, humility and realness in her lyrics. Most of us are not privy to what these people do in their everyday personal lives. Which is why I prefer to discuss their lyrics.

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz
I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

>But my question is very simple.
> Who's words would you
>want to hear coming out
>of their mouths?
if this question has no context, what's the point of it? the reason i typed all that shit was cause i assumed your question was leading somewhere, now it looks to me like your asking if my child was in some black hole in the universe and had to mouth the words of a rap song, would i rather it be back that azz up or beautiful skin. what's the point of that question? what's the point of bringing up children, aren't they just some pawn that you're using for their percived "innocence". Are you saying that all rap artists should make their music for a hypothetical child in a vacum away from society somewhere? Maybe I'm talking too much again, but sorry, I'm not going to answer your question directly, cause I don't see the point. Why not ask would I rather they recite the Shakespeare's 23rd Sonnet, or the 23rd Psalm? Even if I give you a straight answer - Beautiful Skin. Ok. Now what. So? Does that make one song less valuable than the other? No. Tell me where you're trying to go on this, cause I don't see the point. (Side note: this might be last post I can make today, but I will be reading this thread again later, even if I'm not responding now.)

"I'm every MC by the name of Jay Dee" - Jay Dee

that i do write too much, and i do apologize for that. but to paraphrase dmx, "i'm not a concise person", but other than that i think my point(s) still stand(s).

"I'm every MC by the name of Jay Dee" - Jay Dee

>Are you saying that all rap artists should make >their music for a hypothetical child in a vacum
>away from society somewhere?

It gets deeper than that. Is she saying that all art should be censored & molded so as not to affect hypothetical children? Who's going to be the judge for what constitutes moral/ethical/revolutionary music? Using Brand Nubians as an example, Slow Down is not necessarily a progressive or positive song from a womanist perspective.

Can we afford detachment? Should we all be doing our share? Can we take what we got to get where we need to be?

>>Are you saying that all rap artists should make >their music for a hypothetical child in a vacum
>>away from society somewhere?
No, what I'm saying is what I said. If you had to choose a rapper/lyricist/entertainer for your child to listen too, who would it be? Is there not one person that you feel is more responsible than the other? Are you arguing that the children are not watching and listening?

>It gets deeper than that. Is
>she saying that all art should be censored & molded so as not to affect hypothetical children?
Not on this fight, it ain deeper... Cuz no, that's not what "she" is saying. Our children are not hypothetical. They exists and they ARE WATCHING & LISTENING.

Who's going to be the judge for
>what constitutes moral/ethical/revolutionary music?
Did you read my last response to you up top? Where is the responsibility? Would you rather the children sing Amazing Grace or Back that thing up??????

>Using Brand Nubians as an example, Slow Down is not necessarily a progressive or positive
>song from a womanist perspective.
Perhaps for YOU as a woman.....But calling a woman back from a foul life - using her body to get what she wants - is not positive?

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz
I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

will affect positive change - I don't.

Maybe you think a song specifically targeting negative behavior of black women (in affect stereotyping) while ignoring that of black males (ie who's fucking these "skeezers", who's selling them the crack, who's engaging in patriarchy that promotes prostitution) is positive - I don't. Particularly when the artists themselves were (are?) straight sluts that got high. Especially when lyrics on the same damn album promote male promiscuity & the sex as conquest mentality. The whole album was full of constant negative references to black women & their sexuality. That ain't positive or progressive to me.

>If you had to choose rapper/lyricist/entertainer
>for your child to listen too, who would it be?

I would not let my young child listen to certain material but if they DMX but if they did, it would not be DMX's fault. And if DMX is able to ruin a child then that means that the rest of us are clearly not doing our jobs as a community &

> Are you arguing that the children are not >
>and listening?

I'm arguing that we can have just as much access to the children listening as these artists. If we don't then that's our fault so why critique them when we're not doing our jobs either.

>Did you read my last response to you up top?
>Where is the responsibility? Would you rather the children sing Amazing Grace or Back
>that thing up??????

Depending on the situation/circumstance, neither & both.

Maybe you think calling black female addicts "bitches"....

Maybe you think calling black female addicts "bitches"....

"I'm every MC by the name of Jay Dee" - Jay Dee

>>>Are you saying that all rap artists should make >their music for a hypothetical child in a vacum
>>>away from society somewhere?
>No, what I'm saying is what
>I said.
it all makes perfect sense now.

> Is there not one
>person that you feel is
>more responsible than the other?
I don't know Jeru The Damaga and Juvenile personally, no way am I going to decide who is more responsible. You don't think the world has hypocrites, or does it just not matter if you preach the right things?

> Are you arguing that
>the children are not watching
>and listening?
No, the opposite - I am saying that children are listening, and I am talking about the situations those children may be in. Providing context. Not going back to an imaginary child who exists in a black whole in the universe and has a one copy of Ghetto Music: The Blueprint Of Hip-Hop and one copy of Doggystyle.

>Our children are not hypothetical.
So why do you treat them that way?? You insist on recognizing them, but when I attempt to provide a context from which they might be listening to the music, you dismiss that.

>Would you rather the children
>sing Amazing Grace or Back
>that thing up??????
SO WHAT? There's nothing wrong with Back That Azz Up, it's not even an offensive song to me, it's more playful than anything. But what do you mean by the statement? How do you think it should effect how artists make their work, and how the audience treats it? Do you think all art, ever, that is not along the lines of Amazing Grace should be discarded? Do you think it should be relegated to adult-only stores, like porn or something? Do you think no one should make it, or it shouldn't be valued as art? And whose standards should we use, anyway? Yours? Why?

>>Using Brand Nubians as an example, Slow Down is not necessarily a progressive or positive
>>song from a womanist perspective.
>Perhaps for YOU as a woman.....But
>calling a woman back from
>a foul life - using
>her body to get what
>she wants - is not
>positive?
Not even getting into this, but your way attitude about the song proves to me that I would never want someone like you being in control of the production of art any more than I would Tipper Gore or Delores Tucker. There is no difference. I don't think any one person should have that responsibility. Do you? Do you think it should be you? Cause it really sounds like you feel that way.

"I'm every MC by the name of Jay Dee" - Jay Dee

something against being responsible and shouldering your part of the load?????

Am I the only one?

In order to get where you wanna be, you gotta start where you at......

Live
Nu
I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

the ironic thing about your comment is that (to me) it requires each do do as they deem fit. if others do not agree with you, then you should allow them the right to decide the level to which they with to shoulder whever burden right?

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------

Not quite sure I understand you.
Not enough for me or not enough for US - the collective?

I want for folk to take/accept responsibility for what they do.
I want for us to realize that there is a battle of principalities - and does "Back that thing up" help or hinder?

Live
Nu
I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

>Not quite sure I understand you.

let me try again. your comment was:

"do you people have something against being responsible and shouldering your part of the load?????"

now, to me this is an odd question. i don't really thing anyone would, but the key (from what i've glommed from this discussion) is that everyone has to determine their "part of the load". for you to ask this question, in a small way, implies that you don't think this is taking place.

>I want for folk to take/accept
>responsibility for what they do.

..and what if they don't think they have done anything? don't the rest of us have to pick up that slack (per se)? You know we share many opinions, so i'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, i just want you to see the futility in tryinbg to get someone else to do something by cajoling them. i say, bring forth the topic and join those who agree. those who wish to aregue or justify their curret position will only slow your proress down.

>I want for us to realize
>that there is a battle
>of principalities - and does
>"Back that thing up" help
>or hinder?

it depends on the circumstances and one's perspective. if you think it hinders then you gotta counteract. trying to convince those who DON'T will make you really tired (believe me).
------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
Step1:inform yourself step/Step2:inform others/Step3:discuss the problem/Step4: DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/Step5:EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/Step6:evaluate the results/Step7:start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------

And you are TRULY right about one thing

trying to convince those
>who DON'T will make you
>really tired (believe me).

Live & Weary
Nu

I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

>the ironic thing about your comment
>is that (to me) it
>requires each do do as
>they deem fit. if others
>do not agree with you,
>then you should allow them
>the right to decide the
>level to which they with
>to shoulder whever burden right?
>
No doubt. But does that mean that I should be silent? If I think that folk should be more responsible, should I just keep my moth shut? I'm wrong....I still don't get it.

When I read the oppositions words, I get a sense of "who are you to point fingers" But at the same time, the rebuttles they give are just as "finger pointing"

Is it wrong to wonder why groups with social consciousness have disappeared?

Is it wrong to wonder why lyricist (sp) have turned away from that?

Is it wrong to know that children and even grown people are listening and perhaps hoping some of the time used to boob their heads can be used to fill their heads - with knowledge?

I don't think any one's excused - we in this together - even Freeway Rick. And everybody should be adding on before they move on. And if your addition is not positive, I take issue.

I grow weary......

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz
I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

>No doubt. But does that
>mean that I should be
>silent?

nope. say your piece and leve it at that. those who are down will build with you, those who aren't will wanna discuss it more.

>When I read the oppositions words,
>I get a sense of
>"who are you to point
>fingers" But at the
>same time, the rebuttles they
>give are just as "finger
>pointing"

that's the beauty of chasing one's tail. it only leads you in a circle. by the way who is "the opposition"?

>Is it wrong to wonder why
>groups with social consciousness have
>disappeared?

no. but it's a whole lot easier to make the obervation and start a new one (follow your own advice: take persoanl responsibility)

>Is it wrong to wonder why
>lyricist (sp) have turned away
>from that?

no. but the answer to that is obvious: because more are interested in getting paid than otherwise.

>Is it wrong to know that
>children and even grown people
>are listening and perhaps hoping
>some of the time used
>to boob their heads can
>be used to fill their
>heads - with knowledge?

nope. but (again) just make sure that if (and it's a big if) they decide to get some food instead of candy that they have some. write a book, cut a record, do whatever. you can lead a horse to water....

>I don't think any one's excused...
>And everybody should be adding
>on before they move on.

i agree, but i know not everyone shares this ideal. and i don't spend too much time trying to change the spots of a lepard if ya know what i'm saying.

> And if your addition
>is not positive, I take
>issue.

fine. take issue. but if you spend too much time telling folk how wrong they are (or simply observing out loud) you either be seen as a fussy complainer, or at minimum will have wasted energy you could have spent MAKING SOMETHING HAPPEN.

>I grow weary......

me too. but anita and the winans said, "ain't no need to worry, what the night is gonna bring. it'll be all over in the morning"

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
Step1:inform yourself step/Step2:inform others/Step3:discuss the problem/Step4: DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/Step5:EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/Step6:evaluate the results/Step7:start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------

That other people have different ideas about what "being responsible and shouldering their part of the load" means?

or that what you feel is "right" may not be what's right?

You expect people to think about what they are doing & change but at the same time refuse acknowledge that someone may want you to think about what you are doing & change.

You point fingers then get mad when fingers are pointed back.

I don't feel I have a problem with being responsible or shouldering my part of the load. I maybe feel that you (& other here) do. That being case, only God & time will tell who's right.

Maybe we all need to climb down from our ivory towers, ya dig?

this will be when the Self Righteous stop correcting the Self Righteous.....

It's been quite a pleasure. (And I really mean it)
See you on the next one.

Weary Still but really outta this one...

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz
I,I, I Can't Wait!

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

without trying to turn this into a personal attack, i honestly don't see you taking responsibility for your own statements, and although you don't have a real responsibility on an internet message board, that is enough to make me skeptical when you're the one calling out Juvenile on it.

"I'm every MC by the name of Jay Dee" - Jay Dee