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Subject: "#1.Discussion of Assata p.1-140" This topic is locked.
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nappiness
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1145 posts
Tue Aug-15-00 01:56 PM

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"#1.Discussion of Assata p.1-140"


          

Wassup ya'll
I really don't have questions I just got my thoughts on the first 140 pages of the book. I've read the book more than once but this time i approached it a little different. Instead of reading it for the purposes of school I chose to read it as a book of fiction.
I'll throw out some topics that related to the book give my view and ya'll can throw in yo two cent. Just write, u don't neccesarily have to do the cut/paste/insert thingy. Let's discuss not answer questions like we are in school. I don't profess no authority on any of the books we read i just try to offer some food for thought.
So here ya go:
-Book Format
I really liked how the book was put together, usually I hate flashback books but I thought it was effective to use the courtcases, life story, courtcases, life story format(every other chapter).
-Upbringing
the first thing that struck me was the contradictions of her grandmother. on one hand her grandmother enforced the walk with yo head up-don't let anyone sell u inferior goods, but on the other hand she said marry a man with good hair.
-Education
i am anti brown v. board of education and i think it was an insult to black educators implying that we couldn't educate our own kids and that even w/the same resources seperate could not be equal. "of course our school was segregated, but the teachers took more of an interest in our lives becuase they lived in our world".p.29
-White folks patronizing
when she talked about the "little nigga grin" p.32, i could only chuckle. it reminded me of the looks the uncomfortable, i am scared of you, look white students use to give me on the university of iowa campus. the funny thing was how offended they would be when i would frown, clutched my purse close to my body (as if they were going to rob me), or outright ignore their "supposedley" kind gesture.
-Jews
do you consider jews, white?
-Black women in prison and the inequalities in their convictions vs. white women.
the women stories show that the prison industrial complex and the injustice towards Blacks has gotten progressively worse over the years.
-13th Amendment
the break down of the 13th amendment, p.64, did ya'll know slavery was still legal?
-Jury Duty
her courtcases exemplifies the importance of Black folks taking jury duty seriously. "most of the black folk excused themselves on the grounds of hardship"p.67.
-Revolutionaries gentle side
"And when i read Siddhartha a peace came over me. i felt a unity with all things living. the world, in spite of oppresion, is a beautiful place..... i was in communion with all the revolutionary forces on the earth" p.17 no comment i just really like this.
-The birth of her daughter
Through all of the madness there came new life.
"Love is contraband in Hell"p.130 (touching peom)
-Relationships in the book
Okay one more thing, I enjoyed the relationship btwn. her and Evelyn her aunt. and i liked her new fond appreciation for her mother once she began tutoring the kids.

PART II, end of the book discussion (pgs.141-247)on Aug. 30th?
What book ya'll wanna read for September. Hey, I suggest we do fiction. How bout let's read our very own okayplayer's book, Move Over Girl by Brian Peterson. B is the okayplayer that is working on the okaybooks site.
--------sig-----------
"If you are an asshole keep your thoughts to yourself"
"If your intent is to hurt someone else's feelings for the sake of making yo'self look like a 'supastar', rethink your intent."
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"To thy ownself be true"
Ms. Nappiness

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
READ!!!!!!!!! n/m
Aug 16th 2000
1
i just wanna give you props for trying.(n/m)
Aug 16th 2000
2
      Contest for free Okayshirt!
Traci
Aug 17th 2000
13
RE: #1.Discussion of Assata p.1-140
Aug 16th 2000
3
sorry...
Aug 16th 2000
4
They should put this book in the okaystore!!!!!n/m
Aug 16th 2000
5
RE: #1.Discussion of Assata p.1-140
AfroPuffsXL
Aug 16th 2000
6
RE: Brown v. Board of Education
Aug 17th 2000
10
RE: Brown v. Board of Education
Aug 17th 2000
16
RE: Clarity.......
Aug 17th 2000
28
Separate but equal
Aug 17th 2000
25
RE: #1.Discussion of Assata p.1-140
taSha
Aug 17th 2000
29
      few comments
Isis
Aug 18th 2000
30
suggestion for next book
AfroPuffsXL
Aug 16th 2000
7
*still* can't find a copy of assata...
Aug 17th 2000
8
RE: #1.Discussion of Assata p.1-140
what if...
Aug 17th 2000
9
I didn't know it would be so hard to find the book, sorry!!!! n/m
Aug 17th 2000
11
Reply for contest!!!!
Traci
Aug 17th 2000
12
RE: Reply for contest!!!!
what if...
Aug 17th 2000
14
      why you gotta knock book-it???
Aug 17th 2000
15
           RE: why you gotta knock book-it???
what if...
Aug 17th 2000
19
a few comments
Isis
Aug 17th 2000
17
bookclub suggestion
Isis
Aug 17th 2000
18
RE: bookclub suggestion
what if...
Aug 17th 2000
20
RE: bookclub suggestion
Aug 17th 2000
22
      amazon
Aug 17th 2000
24
      You're a Winner !!!
Aug 21st 2000
36
           RE: You're a Winner !!!
Aug 21st 2000
40
Assata and September Book
harmonee239
Aug 17th 2000
21
13th Amendment
Aug 17th 2000
23
RE: you've got it..... n/m
Aug 17th 2000
26
RE: you've got it......(13th amendment)
Aug 17th 2000
27
RE: you've got it......(13th amendment)
Aug 18th 2000
31
Private ownership of prisons
Aug 18th 2000
32
      Interesting point
Aug 18th 2000
33
           what is legal is not necessarily morally correct
Aug 22nd 2000
43
                fair enough
Aug 22nd 2000
44
Esco's Suggestion
Aug 18th 2000
34
Esco's Suggestion
Aug 18th 2000
35
what's next month's book?
Aug 21st 2000
37
i tried to get b's book
Isis
Aug 21st 2000
38
www.abebooks.com
Aug 21st 2000
39
Move Over Girl by Brian Peterson for Sept. n/m
Aug 21st 2000
41
      discussion starts sept. 15th? n/m
Aug 22nd 2000
42

nappiness
Charter member
1145 posts
Wed Aug-16-00 03:14 AM

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1. "READ!!!!!!!!! n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


          

--------sig-----------
"If you are an asshole keep your thoughts to yourself"
"If your intent is to hurt someone else's feelings for the sake of making yo'self look like a 'supastar', rethink your intent."
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"To thy ownself be true"
Ms. Nappiness

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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BooDaah
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32690 posts
Wed Aug-16-00 05:38 AM

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2. "i just wanna give you props for trying.(n/m)"
In response to Reply # 1


          

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
Step1:inform yourself step/Step2:inform others/Step3:discuss the problem/Step4: DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/Step5:EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/Step6:evaluate the results/Step7:start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------

  

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Traci

Thu Aug-17-00 05:46 AM

  
13. "Contest for free Okayshirt!"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Just to add to my post, I have read "Move Over, Girl" by Brian Peterson and I absolutely loved it! Being in college, I could truly relate to the main character and his shenanigans-It is truly a good read. Pick it up, okp!

  

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judicem
Member since Jun 07th 2002
24 posts
Wed Aug-16-00 07:25 AM

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3. "RE: #1.Discussion of Assata p.1-140"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Sorry girl I ws on the East Coast on vacation in Boston without any Internet access!! Damn I was going through withdrawals and now I'm back. I've been waiting to reply about this for a while I thought it was a wonderful idea and book suggestion. I got comments and "non-educated" remarks for you up the a%% but I'm at work right now so I will have to add my comments tonight at home but I would like to say that I enjoyed the book thoroughly.

I didn't just enjoy the book but I enjoyed her. I felt like it was like having a conversation with a mentor or older woman in the hood. But I gotta get back to work so I'll get at you tonight.

  

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beautifulpeace
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Wed Aug-16-00 08:52 AM

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4. "sorry..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but it seems like no libraries in LA have the book. I have looked everywhere.


"Seems like everybody's lost their minds/ and I just might be the next one in line" - Amel Larrieux

work like you don't need the money
love like you never been hurt
dance like you do when nobody's watching--Mindstorm

"I crave more than anything truthful and intense human interaction"--el_rey

"Who loves ya baby? Nobody like Jackie-O...cook, clean, break up ya weed, and I give ya nasty throat"

"When a guy fingers a lady and then smells, licks, sucks the juice off his finger and sighs as if in heaven, she knows this is her lucky day"

  

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Imfntubby
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Wed Aug-16-00 03:26 PM

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5. "They should put this book in the okaystore!!!!!n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Imfntubby
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Bringing back the sig from 2000__________________________________________
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OKAYoungins - dj_teddy_bear - daveyg - zero - DROots - albinomexican - illnes - okaymattd - HomerILLiad404 - OkayBrazilian - mzhotgirl - Essaywhuman -

  

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AfroPuffsXL

Wed Aug-16-00 06:08 PM

  
6. "RE: #1.Discussion of Assata p.1-140"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>i am anti brown v. board
>of education and i think
>it was an insult to
>black educators implying that we
>couldn't educate our own kids
>and that even w/the same
>resources seperate could not be
>equal.

I never heard the implication that Black educators couldn't educate their own. The problem as I saw it was that Black students were given inferior materials, whether it was hand-me-down text books and desks, or unsuitable buildings lacking proper heat or ventalation. Unfortunately this is still the case in many schools in the US. Mandatory segregation has ended, but in many school systems, the schools with the largest population of black students still receive less funds, and inferior resources. In some ways nothing has changed but the date. I was thinking that when I read the part about the Jersey state troopers. It made me think about all the racial profiling that was being reported on the news at the time I was reading this book.


What I find is distressing there's never no in between,
we either n!@@as or kings we either b!+ches or queens - Mos Def

For trees to grow in Brooklyn seeds need to be planted,
I'm askin if yall feel me and the crowd left me stranded - Talib Kweli

  

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nappiness
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1145 posts
Thu Aug-17-00 05:02 AM

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10. "RE: Brown v. Board of Education"
In response to Reply # 6


          

saying that we should be given the same resources is very different from saying that we must be in a classroom next to white children to learn. my question is, "could seperate be equal if Black schools were given the same resources?" yes, it could have been, now there may be other arguments against segregation but to for justice warren to say that the resource issue is the reason is a bunk of ish in my eyes. also, the issue of the child choosing the white doll as being better, prettier, etc. is also a bunk of ish. if a Black child does not value themselves then how in the heck will placing them in a school with white folks rectifty how they feel about themselves? lastly, segregatiion was considered unconstitutional but there was NEVER and still has not a federal implementation of a desegregation in this country. furthermore, such researcher as in gary orfield has found that there has been a re-segregation of schools in this country.

--------sig-----------
"If you are an asshole keep your thoughts to yourself"
"If your intent is to hurt someone else's feelings for the sake of making yo'self look like a 'supastar', rethink your intent."
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"To thy ownself be true"
Ms. Nappiness

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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bc
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1182 posts
Thu Aug-17-00 08:12 AM

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16. "RE: Brown v. Board of Education"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>lastly,
>segregatiion was considered unconstitutional but
>there was NEVER and still
>has not a federal implementation
>of a desegregation in
>this country. furthermore, such researcher
>as in gary orfield has
>found that there has been
>a re-segregation of schools in
>this country.

clarify please...
are you stating that there has never been federally sponsored desegration?

if so, there is a reason. the constitution has been interpreted to give many powers to the states individually. to mandate federal control of schools, or other local entities, would be a huge centralization of power and a no-no in the eyes of the framers, that is why segregation was so pervasive in the South for many years, 'States Rights'

however, there has been federal reinforcement of the desegregation mandate to the states via Brown v. Kansas, ala Vivian Malone/James Hood at Alabama, most famously.

you are right about the gradual resegregation of our schools. this has much to do with the general segregation of our neighborhoods and voting districts, the basis for forming our school systems. jonathan sokol has written some interesting treatises on the unequal qualities of our schools (among many others, i just managed to read some of his work)

respect,
bc

"I draw a crowd like an architect"-Rakim

respect,
bc

"my old boy from the Point but I'm from Southwest..."

"Are you really ready to carry some weight?,
Are you ready to design your fate?" -Kelvin Mercer

  

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nappiness
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Thu Aug-17-00 05:51 PM

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28. "RE: Clarity......."
In response to Reply # 16


          

okay i need to learn how to proofread *smile*
let me be more concise. desegregation was a federal mandate so i think it should have been a federal mandate on how to do this. yes, desegregation happened but INTEGRATION did not happen. so when i say that there was never a plan implemented i am referring to integration. deseg. and integration are two different things.
as far as higher ed. on a small extent there was something done but the attack was on hbcu's when the attempt was made to get rid of hbcu's as we know them as being institutions for Blacks. in fordice v. u.s. the dual systems of higher education was questioned in mississippi.
i do think the re-segregation issue now is a little more complex becuase of changing demographics in this country.
--------sig-----------
"If you are an asshole keep your thoughts to yourself"
"If your intent is to hurt someone else's feelings for the sake of making yo'self look like a 'supastar', rethink your intent."
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"To thy ownself be true"
Ms. Nappiness

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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janey
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123120 posts
Thu Aug-17-00 02:37 PM

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25. "Separate but equal"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Doesn't that argument lead to the following:

Whites only water fountains okay if water fountains for Blacks located nearby

Back of bus seating for Blacks okay because the seats are all the same, just located in a different place.

What's the distinction? Or are the above okay?

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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taSha

Thu Aug-17-00 06:58 PM

  
29. "RE: #1.Discussion of Assata p.1-140"
In response to Reply # 6


          

I'm not sure if anyone's still on this thread, but I just happened to catch it. Brown v. Board of Education was something idealistic, it presumed that people would take over from then on and enforce it. It was also a quick fix, borne of good will, true, but something like full scale integration required and still does immense acculturation and change of public opinion.

Being not from this country, I cannot but shudder to think that such a measure was passed only 40 years ago. Reparations must be made, and past atoned for. I would never think that the justices' decision implied inferiority of the black students or teachers, but rather concentrated on providing the same platform for launching the american success story, as follows education, employment, and promotion.

I've been reading a little about urban politics, and actually, the post WWII flight of wealthy from the city to the suburbs made the city centre economically unhealthy. A rapidly shrinking tax base for one might've contributed to the current situation of schools in largely black inner city neighbourhoods. The reason the ethnic concentration was such is because opressed for centuries, they had not the community infrastructure or any advantages of other groups to advance themselves in the mainstream path of success. And to expect something like that to happen in a hundredth of the time it took other immigrant groups to achieve that was ludicrous.

I seem to have met a lot of people lately that have given up on integration as an antiquated goal. I'm not saying people are cannot be valued on their own merits but rather when doing what "whites" do and being with them, it is rather that I believe everybody to be equal, and nothing should hold anyone back in their comfort zone or what have you. People are people, period. And it is still a valid goal.

I know I can be excessively forceful in my opinion sometimes, but I mean no offense to anyone, as I'm trying my hardest to learn.

love and respect

taSha


  

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Isis

Fri Aug-18-00 04:44 AM

  
30. "few comments"
In response to Reply # 29


          

I just want to clairfy something.

>The reason the ethnic concentration
>was such is because opressed
>for centuries, they had not
>the community infrastructure or any
>advantages of other groups to
>advance themselves in the mainstream
>path of success.

Ethnic concentration exists because of past laws regarding racial covenants. Blacks were forced into certain areas of cities. This was the same for other minorities as well. Forcing communities into these areas was unjust but it did not create ghettoes. This was not because blacks lacked infrastructure or qualified community leaders. Before the movement toward integration, these communites were in some ways better off because you had blacks of all classes living together. Which meant you had professionals living around working class people. The reason these communities were not allowed to thrive was because of laws that segregated us and disallowed investment inot our communities. Banks and businesses shied away from any community with people of color. That is what initially brought us down. The second wave came after the movement towards integration. As professional blacks moved out of black neighborhoods, these communities lost their economic base.


>I know I can be excessively
>forceful in my opinion sometimes,
>but I mean no offense

Don't apologize girl, we're all learning.

*********************
This life is temporary but the soul is eternal, separate the real from the lie, let me learn you. --Mos Def

  

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AfroPuffsXL

Wed Aug-16-00 06:12 PM

  
7. "suggestion for next book"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>What book ya'll wanna read for
>September. Hey, I suggest we
>do fiction. How bout let's
>read our very own okayplayer's
>book, Move Over Girl by
>Brian Peterson. B is
>the okayplayer that is working
>on the okaybooks site.

I'm down to do this for September. Then, for October, let's read The Coldest Winter Ever by Sister Souljah.


What I find is distressing there's never no in between,
we either n!@@as or kings we either b!+ches or queens - Mos Def

For trees to grow in Brooklyn seeds need to be planted,
I'm askin if yall feel me and the crowd left me stranded - Talib Kweli

  

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wbgirl
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Thu Aug-17-00 04:09 AM

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8. "*still* can't find a copy of assata..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

but you know i'm with you in spirit, right? right?

i'm cool w/us doing fiction next month..."move over girl" sounds like a good suggestion to me.

just sayin'.

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218 (although e-mail's still the easiest way to find me...)

http://www.breastcancer3day.org
between this and the (re), Chicago in 2001 will be on some whole new fantabulous shyt! (c) me

August as Quotewhoulike Month (c) me:
"I don't ask to be forgiven/nor do I wish to be given up,/not entirely, not yet, not while/pain is shooting clean through/the only world I know: this one.


Who am I now? What have I become?/Where do we draw the line between being/who I am and what I ought to be?"

both passages (c) al young's "how stars start"

~~wbg~~
"I pray sometimes to keep my head together,
because you can use prayer however you want.
There are no rules one way or the other."
--Jami Attenberg

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what if...

Thu Aug-17-00 04:41 AM

  
9. "RE: #1.Discussion of Assata p.1-140"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i'm doing cut and paste cause i want tooo...


>-Book Format
i enjoyed the flashbacks as well... and it reminded me a lot of bell hooks autobiography... hooks used third and first person when talking about her life throughout the text... which made for interesting reading....

>-Upbringing

her grandmother was/is like a lot of blacks be proud but try and marry the "right" type of black person... what i remember most was her discussion of life on the island and the fact that the beach she talked about is still experiencing financial problems... if i'm not mistaken... they (whites) are trying to take away the beachfront property from the blacks and turn it into condos, etc. it's wild how the same things that happened then are still happening now...

also - the part when her mother spoke spanish in order to get them to ride at the amusement park reminded me of a scene from angela davis' life... she talked about how she and her sister spoke french in order to try on a pair of shoes at a shoe store...

it's said how blacks with a different tongue are more readily accepted than blacks who live in this country....
also scan ahead to the part about the amount of european immigrants who were admitted into the states....post-civil war... over five million... and they were eligible for jobs over blacks who were slaves....

>the first thing that struck me
>was the contradictions of her
>grandmother. on one hand
>her grandmother enforced the walk
>with yo head up-don't let
>anyone sell u inferior goods,
>but on the other hand
>she said marry a man
>with good hair.

you know we talk about hair a lot on this board and how good/ hair bad hair and how now it isn't a statement it is just a style, but i'm starting to rethink that idea... or at least question it more... the same reasons she wore her hair natural... are some of the same reasons i wore mine that way... i didn't want to be chained to the land... i wanted to be free to embrace any element that i encounter...

i think we need to stop making excuses about natural vs permed and start looking at it for what it is...

>
>-Jews
>do you consider jews, white?

yes and no... mostly yes...so many of them can pass by shortening their last name and becoming a part of the "white" world that they might as well be white...

>-Black women in prison

the thing that trips me out about black women in prison... is the fact that they are in for petty crimes.... remember how some of the women said... "oh.. your boyfriend robbed the bank and they locked you up?"... that showed me that so many women are being held in prison for the crimes that the men that they are involved in commit against them... not because they commit crimes... angela davis talks about this as well in her book...on the prison system...
her experience....
the fact that she ran away from home at 13... and met so many interesting people at such a young age was intriguing adn dangerous... to me it showed how her life could have gone in so many directions... i also think about other run aways... and how a person leaves because they are searching... sometimes a search begins earlier than others and our society isn't equipped to provide for that search...

THE Raising of Consciousness...
the way she became a revolutionary wasn't becasue she woke up one morning and said...i'm gonna fight... it was through a quest for knowledge and understanding... a desire for justice....


my sister was asking me the other day.... why wasn't their a massive outcry for Assata like
there was for angela davis....

and i was looking at the time when assata was captured adn the comments about nixon and reagan... assata was hunted towards the end of the movement... i know there were many people aware of who she was etc. but she mentions kings death adn i truly believe that the deaths of king and x took something away from the people as a whole...
people became afraid to stand for justice, because they felt their lives may be at stake....

and their lives were at stake...

death was always an option....
just as death is an option today...


  

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nappiness
Charter member
1145 posts
Thu Aug-17-00 05:03 AM

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11. "I didn't know it would be so hard to find the book, sorry!!!! n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


          

--------sig-----------
"If you are an asshole keep your thoughts to yourself"
"If your intent is to hurt someone else's feelings for the sake of making yo'self look like a 'supastar', rethink your intent."
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"To thy ownself be true"
Ms. Nappiness

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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Traci

Thu Aug-17-00 05:40 AM

  
12. "Reply for contest!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I really, really, really want an okayshirt for the upcoming Lyricist Lounge 2000 concert and for the highly anticipated Okaytour, so please, please like my idea!! I think that if you had a huge contest at the end of a booklist, for example, the winner has to read five books to qualify, and then give away free tickets to the Okaytour along with backstage passes, all of the Okayplayers would be rushing to bookstores, I know I would, I mean, I want too now!!! It would require minimal tech stuff, just set up an Okaycontest section and list the books. The winner would have to answer certain questions about the books, etc. etc. See, good idea!

  

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what if...

Thu Aug-17-00 06:11 AM

  
14. "RE: Reply for contest!!!!"
In response to Reply # 12


          

wrong...
if they don't want to read for reading sake... then i'm not about to start some BOOK-IT program... (c) Pizza Hut late 80s....
and the summer reading program that is sponsored by your library is over!

  

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wbgirl
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Thu Aug-17-00 07:34 AM

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15. "why you gotta knock book-it???"
In response to Reply # 14


          

you know how many free pizzas i earned through that program?

my favorite: six flags had this reading program where if you read for 600 minutes and kept track of all the books you read, they'd give you a certificate and a pass to great america. why was i like the only one in my whole school to get that one?

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218 (although e-mail's still the easiest way to find me...)

http://www.breastcancer3day.org
between this and the (re), Chicago in 2001 will be on some whole new fantabulous shyt! (c) me

August as Quotewhoulike Month (c) me:
"I don't ask to be forgiven/nor do I wish to be given up,/not entirely, not yet, not while/pain is shooting clean through/the only world I know: this one.


Who am I now? What have I become?/Where do we draw the line between being/who I am and what I ought to be?"

both passages (c) al young's "how stars start"

~~wbg~~
"I pray sometimes to keep my head together,
because you can use prayer however you want.
There are no rules one way or the other."
--Jami Attenberg

http://helpcde.blogspot.com
http://queeneulalia.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/queeneulalia

  

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what if...

Thu Aug-17-00 09:56 AM

  
19. "RE: why you gotta knock book-it???"
In response to Reply # 15


          

i didn't know anybody... would remember...book-it...

gurl you know i was in there eating pizza like a fiend...

just like everybody.... else....

i still got cheese droolin' off of my chin...


  

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Isis

Thu Aug-17-00 08:38 AM

  
17. "a few comments"
In response to Reply # 0


          

nappiness, I just want to say thank you for keeping with this even when it seemed like no one wanted to keep it going.
I finished reading Assata (which I happened to find one copy of in Barnes and Nobles) earlier this summer and passed it along to a friend so I don't have it in front of me. But I wanted to comment a little about how I felt.

First off, I loved the format. The way she would switch from her childhood to the time of her capture was great. I also liked the tone she took. She never used big words trying to talk over her audience. This is so important especially since she criticizes the Panthers for losing their touch with the community.

Her courtroom descriptions were so on point. The way she describes the injustice that occurs in this system is true to this day. Even though the same bullshit was going on in each trial, she was able to convey the chaos so we could follow.

I did enjoy reading about her relationship with her aunt. I wonder how she feels about her daughther after dealing with her mother and knowing how she couldn't be there for her.

I don't know if this comes up later or not but maybe we could talk about her feeling towards the Panthers and what was going on at the time with COINTELPRO. Maybe this will be for the next part of discussion but its something to throw out there.


**********************
This life is temporary but the soul is eternal, separate the real from the lie, let me learn you. --Mos Def

  

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Isis

Thu Aug-17-00 08:44 AM

  
18. "bookclub suggestion"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I don't think you should tempt people with free shit to get them to read. I'm sure more than the few individuals who responded to this post read Assata's biography.
I think you need to advertise the book better. Put it in GD or have Angiee always put it in the news so people know what's going on. I know a few people that say they just don't drop in on okayactivist too often. Yall already know the board is slow.
Everything else nappiness does is fine. Breaking the discussion up, just allowing people to throw out ideas, that's all cool.
The other thing could be people may feel intimidated about discussing a book. And for those individuals, you can't do nothing about them, just hope they read and eventually post.

**********************
This life is temporary but the soul is eternal, separate the real from the lie, let me learn you. --Mos Def

  

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what if...

Thu Aug-17-00 09:58 AM

  
20. "RE: bookclub suggestion"
In response to Reply # 18


          

ditto to Isis!

  

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unity
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Thu Aug-17-00 12:24 PM

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22. "RE: bookclub suggestion"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

yah, i agree with not trying to tempt people to read with gimmics and stuff...although folks have been tempted to post to this thread with the promise of a t-shirt...

anyhow, i think some small sort of prize is cool and everything, but perhaps the best way to get more folks involved would be to make access to the books and reading schedule easier...for example, if Angie (sorry to make more work for you sis) were to place an image on the update page (as there is for say, Toshi or the new Dice Raw) of whatever the next book was and had it link to say amazon.com to the page where that book is available, that would at least make it easier to get a few more folks involved. Also, someone could set up a simple webpage--like there used to be back in the day for Papyrus...member that? Is that still around?

Other than making access to the info on what book is being read a bit easier, i don't think you can motivate folks besides offering prizes and such. if folks don't wanna read, they won't. one thing that might motivate some headz, is if some of the okayartists posted about the books as well...it's kinda corny, but i think it would work to motivate some people...




"You are the revolution,.....don't wait to see it on the 6 o'clock news. Bear witness to yourself."
--Wise_7

"theres' so much tension and hate in the world that the act of love to your neighbor is trully revolutionary...it's all about thinking differently than the mainstream concerns of now. "
--mayhem

"SO POWERFUL IS THE LIGHT OF UNITY THAT IT CAN ILLUMINATE THE WHOLE EARTH."
--Baha'u'llah

---
http://beantownbrown.blogspot.com/
http://www.itsjusthair.com/
http://twitter.com/indigginus
http://bahai.us/

  

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janey
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123120 posts
Thu Aug-17-00 02:17 PM

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24. "amazon"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

While I think your suggestion is a good one to make things easier for people, please don't use amazon if you can help it.

Amazon is not community based. It's not interested in literacy. Independent bookstores are the backbone of cultural literacy in every community.

If you want to order books on the internet because it's a lot simpler, please try www.abebooks.com first. It's a consortium of independent used bookstores, so your book will usually be a LOT less expensive than buying a new copy, and using abebooks.com supports the "little" guy, rather than a massive corporate structure that doesn't exist in the real world.

Thanks for listening.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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Shawn_Gee
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969 posts
Mon Aug-21-00 06:59 AM

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36. "You're a Winner !!!"
In response to Reply # 22


          

Unity,

We liked your suggestion and we will discuss this possibility in our next meeting. As long as folks continue to check the news page, they will be updated on the Okaybooks discussions.

I'll be in touch re: your free t-shirt.

"Ernest Lee is Shorty. In the Little Leagues, he can front like hes something important, but any attempt to move into the big time leaves him exposed, shocked, and utterly outclassed". - (taken from the Blowhard league archives)

  

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unity
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Mon Aug-21-00 09:23 AM

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40. "RE: You're a Winner !!!"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

wow. thanks. i didn't really post just to win, but i will rock that t-shirt like nobody's bidness! again, thanks. glad if i could be of help.


"You are the revolution,.....don't wait to see it on the 6 o'clock news. Bear witness to yourself."
--Wise_7

"theres' so much tension and hate in the world that the act of love to your neighbor is trully revolutionary...it's all about thinking differently than the mainstream concerns of now. "
--mayhem

"SO POWERFUL IS THE LIGHT OF UNITY THAT IT CAN ILLUMINATE THE WHOLE EARTH."
--Baha'u'llah

---
http://beantownbrown.blogspot.com/
http://www.itsjusthair.com/
http://twitter.com/indigginus
http://bahai.us/

  

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harmonee239

Thu Aug-17-00 11:45 AM

  
21. "Assata and September Book"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I read Assata about 4 months ago, true the format was tight. I've only read it once so I don't know if this is in the first half or the second, but the thing that really touched me was when she was on the bus(or Train) and she began looking around at all the other Black Women, and wondered when "the day will come, so we can all take our wigs off", or something like that. It kind of reassured me that growing my perm out was the right thing to do.

My suggestion for September's book is:

"Good Hair", I forgot who the author is, but it's a young black woman. I read it right after Assata. It's the kind of book that's just a story, it's not ment to 'make you consider all racial issues of the world', or 'question your existence', or send you on a 'pilgramage'. Just a good story about famlily, love, and trust.

Even if it isn't 'chosen' you should still pick it up.

Peace and Blessings...L-E-X
_______________________________________
OCTOBER 5th 2000!
I'm gettin' FUCKED UP....Soulibras, where ya at?


www.recordkingdom.com, da hot ish!

  

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janey
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123120 posts
Thu Aug-17-00 02:13 PM

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23. "13th Amendment"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm sorry, I didn't read the book, but I will - you've sparked my interest.

But how does anyone figure that slavery is legal? The text of the 13th Amendment is as follows:

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist withhin the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Are you refering to the conviction of a crime exception? That doesn't legalize private ownership of individuals.

I can understand this as a metaphor, or as a political statement about the effect of the justice system, but not as a statement of bare legal fact.

Help me out here.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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nappiness
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1145 posts
Thu Aug-17-00 05:38 PM

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26. "RE: you've got it..... n/m"
In response to Reply # 23


          

i am referring to page 65 when the guard says, "no, your wrong, slavery was outlawed with the exception of prisons". assata responds with,"i looked it up and she was right........."

--------sig-----------
"If you are an asshole keep your thoughts to yourself"
"If your intent is to hurt someone else's feelings for the sake of making yo'self look like a 'supastar', rethink your intent."
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"To thy ownself be true"
Ms. Nappiness

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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nappiness
Charter member
1145 posts
Thu Aug-17-00 05:39 PM

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27. "RE: you've got it......(13th amendment)"
In response to Reply # 23


          

i am referring to page 65 when the guard says, "no, your wrong, slavery was outlawed with the exception of prisons". assata responds with,"i looked it up and she was right........."

--------sig-----------
"If you are an asshole keep your thoughts to yourself"
"If your intent is to hurt someone else's feelings for the sake of making yo'self look like a 'supastar', rethink your intent."
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"To thy ownself be true"
Ms. Nappiness

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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janey
Charter member
123120 posts
Fri Aug-18-00 05:14 AM

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31. "RE: you've got it......(13th amendment)"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I'm not an expert, but I think that exception refers specifically to involuntary servitude, i.e., we can compel persons to service as punishment for crimes, but we cannot own another person.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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nahymsa
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1734 posts
Fri Aug-18-00 05:25 AM

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32. "Private ownership of prisons"
In response to Reply # 23


          

Scenario:

1) Individuals are falsely imprisoned or certain groups are targeted for prosecution & conviction.

2) Upon conviction, these individuals are subject to involuntary servitude.

3) The convicts perform free labor for a private enterprise owned by individuals.

4) Isn't that slavery, masked as criminal punishment?

  

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janey
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Fri Aug-18-00 06:43 AM

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33. "Interesting point"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

but doesn't a lot depend on your first set of assumptions? Wrongly imprisoned or wrongly targeted -- that's NOT allowed or contemplated by the 13th Amendment, so we can't say that it's "legal" can we?

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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nahymsa
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Tue Aug-22-00 07:26 AM

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43. "what is legal is not necessarily morally correct"
In response to Reply # 33


          

So it is possible to legally imprison someone and it still be wrong morally and in terms of the spirit of the law.

In that sense you can enslave legally while wrongly imprisoning or targeting a specific group. ie: the current drug laws allow for difference in sentencing for selling the same drug in different forms. Though it is "legal", I believe that it is wrongly targeting specific people.

wasn't it King that said that unjust laws should not be followed?

  

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janey
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123120 posts
Tue Aug-22-00 07:50 AM

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44. "fair enough"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

But that's entirely different from the bare statement that slavery is legal. From that perspective, it might be more accurate to say that the way that the justice system is currently operated creates a form of legalized slavery.

Hyperbole has a powerful role to play. But for me, hyperbole weakens arguments. If someone exaggerates or deliberately misstates something in a discussion that I'm having with them, I am far more likely to take everything that they say with a grain of salt. So instead of letting them convince me of their position (because I can't know what among the things they've said are true and what are exaggeration), the best that could come of the discussion is a willingness on my part to look into the issue further.

I think there's a lot of value in being really precise in saying what we mean. Of course, this is just my experience and my opinion, and I don't mean to imply that other views aren't valid too.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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fourth_venom
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5994 posts
Fri Aug-18-00 06:07 PM

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34. "Esco's Suggestion"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think that's very interesting, and I will have to do that. Everytime you see someone name in the book change it. But stay consistent with the names or assata will be erica one minute and robin the next. But anyway...that is a very interesting method of looking at a situation, that I will have to try myself when I see one of my former friend from the block getting arrested in the paper. I clicked the link thinking I would get advice but ended up finding a new method for solving situations. Thank You

The HNIC: Esco

www.talkinthatshit.com

  

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fourth_venom
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5994 posts
Fri Aug-18-00 06:07 PM

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35. "Esco's Suggestion"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think that's very interesting, and I will have to do that. Everytime you see someone name in the book change it. But stay consistent with the names or assata will be erica one minute and robin the next. But anyway...that is a very interesting method of looking at a situation, that I will have to try myself when I see one of my former friend from the block getting arrested in the paper. I clicked the link thinking I would get advice but ended up finding a new method for solving situations. Thank You

The HNIC: Esco

www.talkinthatshit.com

  

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wbgirl
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5929 posts
Mon Aug-21-00 07:01 AM

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37. "what's next month's book?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

b's "move over girl"?
"coldest winter ever"? (ugh!)

i'm ending my cd & book moratorium (sp?) soon, so if we're reading something i don't already own and/or can't find at the library, i need to know so i can add it to my list..

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218

http://www.breastcancer3day.org
between this and the (re), Chicago in 2001 will be on some whole new fantabulous shyt! (c) me

August as Quotewhoulike Month (c) me:
"Freedom is when the people can speak, democracy is when the government listens."
(c) Alastair Farrugia

~~wbg~~
"I pray sometimes to keep my head together,
because you can use prayer however you want.
There are no rules one way or the other."
--Jami Attenberg

http://helpcde.blogspot.com
http://queeneulalia.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/queeneulalia

  

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Isis

Mon Aug-21-00 08:47 AM

  
38. "i tried to get b's book"
In response to Reply # 37


          

I think this should be it since I've been trying to read this for a while but I finally located it (at Borders) and I found out it was only in hardcover!
I can't get down like that and buy it. If it was paperback, it'd be okay.
I guess I'll check the library now but just to let yall know its not cheap.

*****************
This life is temporary but the soul is eternal, separate the real from the lie, let me learn you. --Mos Def

  

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janey
Charter member
123120 posts
Mon Aug-21-00 08:53 AM

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39. "www.abebooks.com"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

I just checked for it on www.abebooks.com, which is a consortium of independent booksellers and which I prefer to support over large corporate booksellers.

There are six copies on abebooks, ranging in price from $10 to $16, which is less than the list price of $20 and the amazon price of $18.

What's the deal with the paperpack version published two years ago? Is this the same book?

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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nappiness
Charter member
1145 posts
Mon Aug-21-00 06:52 PM

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41. "Move Over Girl by Brian Peterson for Sept. n/m"
In response to Reply # 37


          

--------sig-----------
"If you are an asshole keep your thoughts to yourself"
"If your intent is to hurt someone else's feelings for the sake of making yo'self look like a 'supastar', rethink your intent."
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"To thy ownself be true"
Ms. Nappiness

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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wbgirl
Charter member
5929 posts
Tue Aug-22-00 03:48 AM

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42. "discussion starts sept. 15th? n/m"
In response to Reply # 41


          

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218

http://www.breastcancer3day.org
between this and the (re), Chicago in 2001 will be on some whole new fantabulous shyt! (c) me

August as Quotewhoulike Month (c) me:
"Freedom is when the people can speak, democracy is when the government listens."
(c) Alastair Farrugia

~~wbg~~
"I pray sometimes to keep my head together,
because you can use prayer however you want.
There are no rules one way or the other."
--Jami Attenberg

http://helpcde.blogspot.com
http://queeneulalia.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/queeneulalia

  

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