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Subject: "Religion is the Opiate of the masses..." This topic is locked.
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illosopher
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596 posts
Wed Aug-30-00 12:48 PM

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"Religion is the Opiate of the masses..."


          

THE MAJOR RELIGIONS OF AMERICA

Western Christanity- a distorted twisted version of the spiritual philosophy endorsed by the prophet Jesus

Capitalism- a parasitical ideology based on exploitation in the pursuit of capital

Racialism- the ideology that the scientifically bankrupt concept of race is actually real

Racism- the idea the one imaginary group of people is better than another imaginary group of people based on a imaginary genetic relation

Classism- the ideology of a caste system based on economic status

Sexism- the ideology that a specific gender (usually men)is superior the other (usually women)

Materialism- the ideology that is based on the pursuit of material items disregarding the value of spirituality

Conservatism- The ideology that is based on adhering to the heirarchy of the staus-quo or pursuing the interests of the bourgiosie and aristocracy at the expense of the proletariat

FREE YOUR MIND! I see a lot of heads on these boards are caught by many of these ideals, we cannot move forward until you free yourself from this mental bondage. NOTE! It doesn't make you down cause you like Kweli, or cause you went to a Mumia march, or read a Chinua Achebe novel. It sickens me to see cats on these boards argue about race on some pro-black shit like fuck the white man and everything he has to do with, when Racist white men created the idea of race anyway. To accept the idea of race is to preserve the legacy of Willie Lynch and the others who exploited the many nations and ethnic groups indengenous to Africa. It's also fuuny to see so many of cling to your christian Dogma when it is obvious it is an instituation hell-bent on world domination, wealth, pacification of the masses, etc. Since fuedalism it has been a justification for human servitude. It is also funny to see you cats cling to your material things and luxury when any discussion on Socialism erupts...I couls go on forever but i'll finish by saying...
Find out who you are and not who you think you are,when you find that out the journey to happiness begins...


  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
wow
velodragon
Aug 30th 2000
1
and another thing
velodragon
Aug 30th 2000
2
and another thing
AfricanHerbsman
Aug 31st 2000
3
actually
Aug 31st 2000
4
RE: and another thing
Aug 31st 2000
6
      Just one question
Aug 31st 2000
7
      RE: Just one question
Sep 05th 2000
38
           RE: Just one question
Sep 05th 2000
39
                RE: Just one question
Sep 05th 2000
43
                     RE: Just one question
Sep 05th 2000
45
                     P.S.
Sep 05th 2000
46
                     RE: Just one question
Sep 11th 2000
51
      in other words: babble on
Aug 31st 2000
8
      RE: in other words: babble on
Aug 31st 2000
12
           are you resorting to name calling?
Aug 31st 2000
14
                RE: are you resorting to name calling?
Sep 04th 2000
22
                     if you say so...
Sep 04th 2000
29
      RE: and another thing
velodragon
Aug 31st 2000
9
           RE: and another thing
Aug 31st 2000
13
                ?
velodragon
Aug 31st 2000
15
Quoting Marx
Aug 31st 2000
5
RE: Quoting Marx
Aug 31st 2000
11
      RE: Quoting Marx
Aug 31st 2000
16
      RE: Quoting Marx
Sep 04th 2000
23
           RE: Quoting Marx
Sep 11th 2000
53
      real quick and i'm out
Aug 31st 2000
20
      RE: Quoting Marx
Sep 11th 2000
52
I applaud you.
Aug 31st 2000
10
i've said it before...
Aug 31st 2000
17
How Original!
Aug 31st 2000
18
RE: How Original!
Sep 04th 2000
24
      Are you talking about God
Sep 05th 2000
34
           RE: Are you talking about God
Sep 05th 2000
35
Sad n/m
Aug 31st 2000
19
Jehovah
lolatin
Aug 31st 2000
21
Ahhhh..........
Sep 04th 2000
25
RE: Ahhhh..........
Sep 04th 2000
26
      Nahhhhhhhhhh
Sep 04th 2000
27
           RE: Nahhhhhhhhhh
Sep 04th 2000
30
                Christianity
Sep 05th 2000
32
                     RE: Christianity
Sep 05th 2000
36
                          I understand
Sep 05th 2000
40
                               RE: I understand
Sep 05th 2000
41
                                    Okay then.....
Sep 05th 2000
42
                                         RE: Okay then.....
Sep 05th 2000
44
                                              Oh really?
Sep 05th 2000
47
                                                   RE: Oh really?
Sep 05th 2000
48
                                                        Ha Ha
Sep 06th 2000
49
Hope ya don't mind me saying.......
Lysithya
Sep 04th 2000
28
scarface..
AfricanHerbsman
Sep 05th 2000
31
Marley and Tosh
Sep 05th 2000
37
Hey, Ill
Sep 05th 2000
33
truly ill...
Sep 08th 2000
50

velodragon

Wed Aug-30-00 12:52 PM

  
1. "wow"
In response to Reply # 0


          

for someone who claims to be a student of Taoism you sure are judgemental

what happened to there is no bad, there is no good, there just "is"?

maybe my copy of Tao Te Ching is missing a few pages or something


----------------------------------------
error 404 - signature not found

  

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velodragon

Wed Aug-30-00 01:47 PM

  
2. "and another thing"
In response to Reply # 0


          

the only religion you listed was Christianity, the rest are, as you said yourself in the descriptions, ideologies. big difference. what about the Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics, Satanists, etc, they don't get any opium? it hardly seems relevant to call out religion and then list Christianity and a bunch of sociological ideologies with nothing to bring them together into a coherent arguement.

once again i'm left confused as to what you're rambling on about. please clarify.


----------------------------------------
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AfricanHerbsman

Thu Aug-31-00 02:15 AM

  
3. "and another thing"
In response to Reply # 2


          

>the only religion you listed was
>Christianity, the rest are, as
>you said yourself in the
>descriptions, ideologies. big difference.
> what about the Jews,
>Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics, Satanists,
>etc, they don't get any
>opium? it hardly seems
>relevant to call out religion
>and then list Christianity and
>a bunch of sociological ideologies
>with nothing to bring them
>together into a coherent arguement.

I don't think he meant it as literally as in the higher power/spiritual leader sense - emphasis more on the worship and outward aspect of it is how I saw the metaphor, western zealous devotion/obediance to those ideologies.

I'm not jumping in, just saying..
______________________________________

seize your time! - marley/wailers

blackboogeymanmanicmadmusicianmakerofnoise.. - black thought/roots

  

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mke
Member since Oct 20th 2002
3 posts
Thu Aug-31-00 02:38 AM

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4. "actually"
In response to Reply # 2


          

He stated MAJOR RELIGIONS OF AMERICA. Satanism isn't a major religion of America, no matter how many videos Marilyn Manson has released .

AIM: mke1978

"L'actualité régionale: c'est vous qui la vivez, c'est nous qui en vivons"
In English:
"Local news: you live it, we live off it"
- Jules-Edouard Moustic, 20H20

"There's no blood in my body/It's liquid soul in my veins"
- Roots Manuva (check the fantastic album "Brand New Second Hand")




  

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illosopher
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596 posts
Thu Aug-31-00 06:52 AM

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6. "RE: and another thing"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Look fam, The titile is the Major religions of america all of those faiths mentioned are not major meaning a large segment of the population subscribes to them...
By the way, I'm talking about how these b.s. ideologies are forced upon at an early age we become prisoner to them for life...
As far the taoism is concerned yes i do subscribe to the knowledge Lao Tzu enlightened the world with but, it is my understanding that historically Taoists clown Confuscists, which is a judgement per se. Also i didn't call out any personally i challenge ideologies that disrupt the way of nature. I think there is a precedent in Taoism that challenges impractical ideologies. Any of those ideals i mentioned no Taoist would ever subscribe to,for they are against the wa of nature. Each one of those ideals i listed is detrimental to nature in one form or another, and will cause of our collective demise...

  

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janey
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123120 posts
Thu Aug-31-00 06:56 AM

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7. "Just one question"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

Is there any value in any of 'em? Any of 'em ever done or been responsible for anything good?

Doesn't the master acknowledge that both good and evil exist and rise above the impermanence with equanimity?

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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illosopher
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596 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 07:14 AM

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38. "RE: Just one question"
In response to Reply # 7


          

I don't think they responsible for much good at all. I'm not a master but i feel that somethings that detrimental to man must be purged from the planet and these ideas fit the criteria....



  

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janey
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123120 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 07:29 AM

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39. "RE: Just one question"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

But you're a taoist and so I think that you understand that all things balance out.

Have you ever known a really good person who was inspired by their church community? I have.

Have you ever thought about the strength that such a community has brought to many people? And by this, I mean the strength and the courage to do good things. I have.

Have you ever known any minister, priest, rabbi or other religious person who was seriously committed to creating love and not division? I have.

I know that you're really sensitive to the whole religion issue, but most people need the strength of a community.

In Catholicism, part of the creed goes "I believe in the communion of saints" by which it means the present influence of all good people in our lives.

In Buddhism, it is traditional to "take refuge in the Buddha" (awakening), "the Dharma" (the path to awakening), "and the Sangha" (the community of people on the path to awakening).

Did you know that BooDaah archived your thread "Religion is Wack"?

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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illosopher
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596 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 12:41 PM

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43. "RE: Just one question"
In response to Reply # 39


          

Have you ever known a really good person who was inspired by their church community?

Yes for everyone of them i know innumerable people who sit back pacified by an overdose of dogma and wait for their pie in the sky instead of being proactive and taking control of their fate.

Have you ever thought about the strength that such a community has brought to many people? And by this, I mean the strength and the courage to do good things.

Yes i do know some people but i know many more who are resigned to the fact that some supernatural comic book-esque cat will come from the hereafter and save everyone, while our prophets continued to be slaughtered.

Have you ever known any minister, priest, rabbi or other religious person who was seriously committed to creating love and not division?

Yes for everyone of them there are thousands who perpetuate sexism, racism, elitism or just are plain old oppurtunists out for a buck.

I know that you're really sensitive to the whole religion issue, but most people need the strength of a community.

We have a community it a community of human beings until find fellowship in humanity we are headed for a great calamity.

In Catholicism, part of the creed goes "I believe in the communion of saints" by which it means the present influence of all good people in our lives.

The Catholic church as an institution is responsible for more evil than any other entity in the last 1700 years. They have murdered and tortured more people under the false word of God than anyone can imagine. Don't take my word for it read some books.

peace
illosopher

  

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janey
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123120 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 01:53 PM

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45. "RE: Just one question"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

But in response to all of your responses, why blame the religion? Can't any of these people take individual responsibility for their actions? And if not, then your idea of "freeing" everyone from religion fails because all of these people who are unwilling to accept responsibility for their decisions and actions will just turn elsewhere for a decisionmaker.

Honestly, dearie, I probably know a lot more about Catholicism than you do. And I certainly know a lot of people who are not inspired by their community, people who are not strengthened by their faith, and priests and other religious who are not leading their communities in a skillful way. But that doesn't make me condemn the religion. There are as many unskillful Buddhists as there are unskillful Christians. People are people are people. It's you who is taking away their individuality by lumping them together in one generic definition.


Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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janey
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123120 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 01:57 PM

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46. "P.S."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

Have you read through What Are We? Part II? There are several people on that post who cite God as their inspiration for their commitment to integrity and good works. On this board you're going to be hard pressed to find the down trodden Christian that you're trying to save or the abusive power wielder that you condemn.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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spirit
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Mon Sep-11-00 11:04 PM

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51. "RE: Just one question"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>Have you ever known a really
>good person who was inspired
>by their church community?
>
>Yes for everyone of them i
>know innumerable people who sit
>back pacified by an overdose
>of dogma and wait for
>their pie in the sky
>instead of being proactive and
>taking control of their fate.

I've never met such a person. Could you provide us with a list of names so we can contact these folks and enlighten them? *sarcasm* I think you're exaggerating. The average religious person I meet uses religion as a way to order their lives, a basic moral code to live by. It's not religious people sit on a couch all day waiting for God to deliver food...if one looks at history, religious people have had a massive effect on the world through warfare, colonization, et cetera...religion has had a massive impact on history...so saying that religious people aren't "proactive" is ridiculous and not based on history at all.

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com
Brand spanking new mothereffing audio just added 9/7/2000

"Fresh is the word." - Vice Presidential nominee Joseph Lieberman, when asked to describe his feelings on the songs at http://www.theamphibians.com

"What, are you fucking kidding me? Prison, of course." - John Gotti, when asked whether he'd rather be banned from http://www.theamphibians.com or stay in prison another 10 years.

blackplanet name: alanpage
AIM: alanpage7
e-mail: alanpage@blackplanet.com

"sleeping on the cizzurb: the homeless album" coming soon. hahah

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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BooDaah
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32690 posts
Thu Aug-31-00 07:01 AM

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8. "in other words: babble on"
In response to Reply # 6


          

believe what you want. but...

your judgemental-ness is leaking all over the place.

who is to say your definition of "truth" and what is "natural" is correct?

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
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illosopher
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596 posts
Thu Aug-31-00 07:21 AM

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12. "RE: in other words: babble on"
In response to Reply # 8


          

As far as nature goes it not my version but the version that has been put before me. It has existed since time itself. You canplay the level-headed intellectual if you choose it doesn't impress me. We sit back play this silly game liberal thought if you please, (meetings, marches, discussions, protests) But in the end you must tear down babylon not exist begrudging in it, or you become an oppurtunist. Maybe you want problems to continue so sit in a front of acomputer and play that lame ass role you portray, as people talk about the problems of the day, think about i there were no more problems you wouldn't have this great job would you. See with me i want kill the beast not condemn him when he does his work of evil. That is an oppurtunist can't wait for a cop to beat a niggas ass, can't wait for something to happen, see me i don't want nothing to happen i want to chill in peace, and yeah maybe i may have to become the Beast slay the Beast but i beileve Good and Evil are already one in the same, just the energy is charged differently...

  

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BooDaah
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Thu Aug-31-00 07:37 AM

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14. "are you resorting to name calling?"
In response to Reply # 12


          

>As far as nature goes it
>not my version but the
>version that has been put
>before me.

speak clearly. version put before you by whom? what makes this any more valid that the version pur before someone else?

>You canplay the level-headed intellectual if you
>choose it doesn't impress me.

hence the title. impress you by asking you a question? whateverman.

>We sit back play this
>silly game liberal thought if
>you please, (meetings, marches, discussions,
>protests)

you're being judgemental ("silly game"). i'm merely attempting to dig beyond your rhetoric and determine what answers it is that you have that so many others are blind to. you can go off all you like, but you still didn't answer my questions.

>Maybe you want problems to
>continue so sit in a
>front of acomputer and play
>that lame ass role you
>portray, as people talk about
>the problems of the day,
>think about i there were
>no more problems you wouldn't
>have this great job would
>you. See with me i
>want kill the beast not
>condemn him when he does
>his work of evil. That
>is an oppurtunist can't wait
>for a cop to beat
>a niggas ass, can't wait
>for something to happen, see
>me i don't want nothing
>to happen i want to
>chill in peace, and yeah
>maybe i may have to
>become the Beast slay the
>Beast but i beileve Good
>and Evil are already one
>in the same, just the
>energy is charged differently...

huh? that was completely incoherent. piece of advice: if you want folk to understand the point(s) you're trying to make, you gotta stop ranting and raving. i'm not trying to clown you, i just want you to explain your point with some clarity. help a brother out.

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
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Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
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illosopher
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Mon Sep-04-00 06:53 AM

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22. "RE: are you resorting to name calling?"
In response to Reply # 14


          

I think my position is clear. My position stands against these ideals that are eating away at the mentality and soul of our society, maybe i'm wrong maybe it's all good, or better yet ALL GOOD FOR YOU PEOPLE! I take it to streets and the despair, i see kids wit no food, sweating a pair of Nikes and the bling bling, i see people wit' no sense of self, waiting for a mystery God to come form the sky and save'em. I lost mad friends to the next world, standing out on the block chasing a capitialist fairy tale. i can give maD examples OF WHY the things i named are detrimental to any culture. And as far as name calling goes i call'em like i see'em....
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO TO IMPROVE THIS WORLD FOR THE HUMBLED MASSES?

  

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BooDaah
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Mon Sep-04-00 10:04 AM

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29. "if you say so..."
In response to Reply # 22


          

>I think my position is clear.

sure it is. you are (in your own mind) judge, and jury. that's fine. i (and others) can withstand your keyboard complaints. your opinion/position is just that. yours. and you're more than welcome to it. i bear you no grudge, nor ultimately need your approval for anything i do. you are willing to judge based upon your limited viewpoint and i'm sure that helps you to maintain your idea that you are enlightened. bully 4 you.

>i can give maD examples OF
>WHY the things i named
>are detrimental to any culture.

but instead you rather ramble on (considering the fact that i've asked you to explain twice and you still ain't said jack). a wise man one said: don't sing it, bring it. ultimately you seem to be hellbent (pun intended) on standing on your soapbox and adding to the static. just like all the others who say alot but have no meaning, i think i'll leave you to your own confusion.

>WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO
>TO IMPROVE THIS WORLD FOR
>THE HUMBLED MASSES?

ultimately what good would me listing anything i do to help anyone do to relieve me (and folk like me) of the judgement that you have already passed? you don't know me from that hole in your head through which you sling your empty epithets.
in some folk minds it easier to label me than get to know me. to them i'll be whatever their little minds can process me as. i learned a long time ago to do what i gotta do to make this mess of a world better and to ignore those who would rather hinder than help. so while you talk your trash, i'll keep holding it down the best way i know how, and i'll pray for you regardless. amen.

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
Step1:inform yourself step/Step2:inform others/Step3:discuss the problem/Step4: DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/Step5:EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/Step6:evaluate the results/Step7:start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------

  

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velodragon

Thu Aug-31-00 07:03 AM

  
9. "RE: and another thing"
In response to Reply # 6


          

but couldn't all of these things be part of nature? they all seem to deal in some respect to self-preservation, which is what nature is all about. just because you don't agree with them or just because they are blatantly wrong doens't make them unnatural.

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illosopher
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596 posts
Thu Aug-31-00 07:25 AM

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13. "RE: and another thing"
In response to Reply # 9


          

I refuse to any dignify that comment with a response...

  

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velodragon

Thu Aug-31-00 07:39 AM

  
15. "?"
In response to Reply # 13


          

but you just did....


once again i am left with no idea what message you are trying to get across. i think that we must exist on two seperate planes of thought or something.

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k_orr
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Thu Aug-31-00 03:58 AM

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5. "Quoting Marx"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Doesn't make you down for the cause, unless your cause is socialism.

When we say "Down for the Cause", we're talking about the upliftment of black people. And if you're a practical person like myself, you will use whatever ideology/method it takes to get to where we want to be. So if it means selling drugs in order to open up a business or elect a president (see Kennedy), or pooling my money into a cooperative, or just getting together with different heads to exchange ideas, that's what we have to do.

Furthermore you are insulting the all the people of faith who have done far more for the cause than any member of the communist/socialist parties in this country.

When's the last time anyone mentioned Eugene Debs when they were talking about black upliftment?

>FREE YOUR MIND! I see a
>lot of heads on these
>boards are caught by many
>of these ideals,

Turn the other cheek, A Christian Philosophy practiced by lots of Christians during the civil rights movement, is pretty damn effective philosophy. The fact that so many Americans were shamed by what they saw in the South is part of the reason the Voting Acts right of 65 got passed.

Don't let the philosophers get in the way of the mission.

k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

  

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illosopher
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Thu Aug-31-00 07:11 AM

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11. "RE: Quoting Marx"
In response to Reply # 5


          

First of all, the reason upliftment of Black People is necessary is beacause of Christian Capitalists, who robbed you of everything under the sun a few centuries ago. To cling to the weapons of your own demise is a sado-masochist platform. No-disrespect to any one's faith but if you read clearly you would see my beef with Western Christanity (the Christanity that has been used as a vehicle of domination since its inception at the Nicene Council) , it has historically been a weapon of pacificism since the Nicene Creed. Unless you practice a eastern orthodox or East African version of Christianity you are disciple of the Constantine Sects which are responsible for some of most heinous acts in history of world. Slavery, Inquisitions, Witch Hunts, all types of other barbarity. Remember Christanity was used to rationalize slavery, the curse of Ham, this same curse was used on the serfs in europe hundreds of years before The Slavery Epoch. How canb you subscribe to the same ideology that GW Bush, Alan Keys, Pat Robertson also claim? Think about it1 Anything that is truly spiritual they would have no part of...
Finally what is this about the upliftment of Black people, How about the upliftment of all people that is only way it will work. When all the people of the world are enlightened, you supposed to Christain (i'm assuming cuz of your rsponse but you separate god's people in groups, it makes sense the White folks who taught you that mythology did the same...) What about the Native Americans allover this hemisphere getting shitten on from Texas to Chile', what about the poor whites in Appalacia, what about all the other oppressed people, down they need upliftment too? What's the need for upliftment when the Earth is infested with savagery?

I understand why you are upset you practice Western Christianity, Capitalism, Racialism.... I'm sorry for disrespecting your time honored faiths....


  

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k_orr
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Thu Aug-31-00 08:41 AM

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16. "RE: Quoting Marx"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>First of all, the reason upliftment
>of Black People is necessary
>is beacause of Christian Capitalists,

Please. Everybody and their brother has had a hand in keeping the black man down. Most of the hard core capitalists don't even worship.

>you would see my beef
>with Western Christanity

Which has also been the source of inspiration for black folks since we got here. Personally I'm not a Christian, but I do recognize that it is a strong force in some people's lives. When times have gotten tough, folks have gotten through it with God. (The white Jesus on the my grandmothers' wall. In competes with my pop's Haile Selassie.)

> Slavery, Inquisitions, Witch Hunts,
>all types of other barbarity.

You could blame all those things on men. You could call them europeans. We could look at any culture and see that same sort of depravity. During the rape of Nanking, no one was hollering Jesus.

>Remember Christanity was used to
>rationalize slavery,

They needed something to settle it in their minds. But christianity is a pretense, not the reason for. The hardcore puritans didn't have slaves.

>How canb
>you subscribe to the same
>ideology that GW Bush, Alan
>Keys, Pat Robertson also claim?

can they suscribe to the same faith that MLK, Mother Teresa, and Harriet Tubman had?

>Finally what is this about the
>upliftment of Black people,

Specifically, we want equal treatment in this country in everything. And if it's good enough for us, it is good enough for the rest of my oppressed brethren. Unfortunately I do not see the efforts of my folks as well as I need to.

>How
>about the upliftment of all
>people that is only way
>it will work.

So we uplift the capitalists too? We uplift those that hold the power?

>When all
>the people of the world
>are enlightened, you supposed to
>Christain (i'm assuming cuz of
>your rsponse but you separate
>god's people in groups, it
>makes sense the White folks
>who taught you that mythology
>did the same...)

I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know why you want to call me a Christian. But your words should be offensive to anyone of reason, much less faith.

What about
>the Native Americans allover this
>hemisphere getting shitten on from
>Texas to Chile', what about
>the poor whites in Appalacia,
>what about all the other
>oppressed people, down they need
>upliftment too?

When black folks get rights, they actually trickle down to others.

What's the need
>for upliftment when the Earth
>is infested with savagery?
>
>I understand why you are upset
>you practice Western Christianity,
>Capitalism, Racialism.... I'm sorry for
>disrespecting your time honored faiths....

Whatever.

k. orr


http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

  

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illosopher
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Mon Sep-04-00 07:07 AM

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23. "RE: Quoting Marx"
In response to Reply # 16


          

Just because someone gets asense of hope from somethings neccesarily doesn't make it productive. Christianity has pacified more Blacks than it has invigorated.

Everybody and their brother has had a hand in keeping the black man down. Most of the hard core capitalists don't even worship.

Who is everybody? Besides Arab slavers and europeans the list of cats that opressed us pretty short, it's not like we don't know who did us in! Most hardcore capitialists were Christians not in faith but in rhetoric, and these were the heards who taught the religion so it will always be flawed it was used to pacify us rationalize servitude and inferiority. The came in the name of the queen and the Cross!

>Which has also been the source of inspiration for black folks since we got here. Personally I'm not a Christian, but I do recognize that it is a strong force in some people's lives. When times have gotten tough, folks have gotten through it with God. (The white Jesus on the my grandmothers' wall. In competes with my pop's Haile Selassie.)

You can't see WE WOULDN'T FUCKIN' NEED IT IF HAD'NT been USED TO OPPRESS IN THE BEGINNING, look man we were prostituted, in prostitution the pimp sells a false sense of hope,so the HO will always think in the end it will be okay thaT IS WHAT Christianity is a false sense of hope, It got us waiting for the next life while the snatch this one...


They needed something to settle it in their minds. But christianity is a pretense, not the reason for. The hardcore puritans didn't have slaves.

Look kid before they even did anything they set up missionaries...

The hardcore puritans were Genocide thirsty hate-mongers...Ask any Brit...


  

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spirit
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Mon Sep-11-00 11:18 PM

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53. "RE: Quoting Marx"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

>Just because someone gets asense of
>hope from somethings neccesarily doesn't
>make it productive. Christianity has
>pacified more Blacks than it
>has invigorated.

how would you ever prove that?

>Everybody and their brother has had
>a hand in keeping the
>black man down. Most of
>the hard core capitalists don't
>even worship.
>
>Who is everybody? Besides Arab slavers
>and europeans the list of
>cats that opressed us pretty
>short

You forgot to mention the Africans who sold Africans into slavery. That's Africans, Europeans, and Arabs, easily 3/5 of the Old World population. So, k_orr just used shorthand and said "everybody".

I honestly think you need to go out and interact with more people of Christian faith, because what I hear from you are overgeneralizations, I don't hear "My friend Aaron, who is Christian..." or "My Christian aunt...". Instead, I hear generalized rhetoric about Christians being passive, the same spiel I've heard run by nationalists since the NOI's glory days.

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com
Brand spanking new mothereffing audio just added 9/7/2000

"Fresh is the word." - Vice Presidential nominee Joseph Lieberman, when asked to describe his feelings on the songs at http://www.theamphibians.com

"What, are you fucking kidding me? Prison, of course." - John Gotti, when asked whether he'd rather be banned from http://www.theamphibians.com or stay in prison another 10 years.

blackplanet name: alanpage
AIM: alanpage7
e-mail: alanpage@blackplanet.com

"sleeping on the cizzurb: the homeless album" coming soon. hahah

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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Iltigo
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20. "real quick and i'm out"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

I just wanted to say WHOA!!!

You've made a lot of eleoquent statements and have put forth some interesting ideas but...your "down with the evil Facism of Christianity" rantis a little trite (sp?). You claim to be a philosopher (illospher being your name) and you obviously are a student of sociology (formally of not) yet you fail to realize that you have fallen into a classic philosophical trap. You have blaimed the system for the down fal of the people. The system (in this case Christianity and other organized religions) is never right or wrong it just is, the problem comes with people's interpretation of the system. True Fuedalism was took place under the "watchful eye" ofthe Vadican, but, the Vadican is not what i worship (I am a Christian by the way.

Just because a bunch od yahoos go off on a religious 'journey' and do wrong doesn't mean that he religioun is wrong. It means their "interpretation" of the ideals is wrong.

Christians strive in thier lives (we are supposed to) to be Christ-like. That means, being kind, charitable, and fair to your fellow man.
Now what is so wrong and Babylonian about that?

anyway argue on...

Peace

il
***God, grant me the serninity to accept the things I cannot change. Courage to change the htings I can. And Wisdom to know the difference.***

***As a general rule of thumb, people are STUPID!! It is your responsibility as an intelligent person to take advantage of this at every possible opprotunity!!!***

NSSSSBE SSSSSSUUUUU!!!! Region ONE WHAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!!!

________________________________________
It's A Boy and his name is MILES KHALIL YOUNG

  

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spirit
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Mon Sep-11-00 11:13 PM

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52. "RE: Quoting Marx"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>(i'm assuming cuz of
>your rsponse but you separate
>god's people in groups, it
>makes sense the White folks
>who taught you that mythology
>did the same...)

wouldn't you be separating God's people into groups by referring to "white folks"? then immediately afterwards referring to "Native Americans"? those are both groups...

Spread love,

Spirit

http://www.theamphibians.com
Brand spanking new mothereffing audio just added 9/7/2000

"Fresh is the word." - Vice Presidential nominee Joseph Lieberman, when asked to describe his feelings on the songs at http://www.theamphibians.com

"What, are you fucking kidding me? Prison, of course." - John Gotti, when asked whether he'd rather be banned from http://www.theamphibians.com or stay in prison another 10 years.

blackplanet name: alanpage
AIM: alanpage7
e-mail: alanpage@blackplanet.com

"sleeping on the cizzurb: the homeless album" coming soon. hahah

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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HotThyng76
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51232 posts
Thu Aug-31-00 07:06 AM

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10. "I applaud you."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I agree that Christianity as it exists today does not adhere to the philosophies laid down by Christ (namely that we should love one another as he loved us).

I'm going to love watching the Christians come get you, cuz you know they will.

As for the rest of the "major religions", you definitely raised some good points. There are lots of folks running around with all the trappings of radicalism (hair, clothes, books, incense, etc) but none of the heart. In some ways, they're more harmful than those who know nothing about revolution.





_______________________

  

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wbgirl
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Thu Aug-31-00 10:02 AM

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17. "i've said it before..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and i'll say it again...religion does NOT equal spirituality.

it's like the old saying...you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. you can yell at folks until you're blue in the face and hoarse (no pun intended), but i think it's up to each individual to discover who they are and what they stand for. living by example can be more effective than standing on a soapbox (figuratively or literally) preaching that your way is *the* way.

slightly tangential, i know, but i felt like sharing. carry on (c) black_engineer


~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218

http://www.breastcancer3day.org
between this and the (re), Chicago in 2001 will be on some whole new fantabulous shyt! (c) me

August as Quotewhoulike Month (c) me:
"Freedom is when the people can speak, democracy is when the government listens."
(c) Alastair Farrugia

~~wbg~~
"I pray sometimes to keep my head together,
because you can use prayer however you want.
There are no rules one way or the other."
--Jami Attenberg

http://helpcde.blogspot.com
http://queeneulalia.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/queeneulalia

  

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nushooz
Member since Nov 05th 2002
14 posts
Thu Aug-31-00 11:11 AM

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18. "How Original!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

another post hatin' on religion...so it seems at first...but then you read it {the post} and it only lists one religion - Christianity. Hummmm

What is your point? That people don't need religion? Have you been Judas-ed and you mad about it....thinking that maybe Christ shoulda nipped that in the bud? WHAT is it? Have you laid your head in Deliah's lap and she cut off your hair? What?

I hardly respond to these kinds of posts cuz' all folk like you wanna do is tell me that my beleifs are not right. For you, My Brother, I will pray and BELIEVE that my prayers will be answered.

And by the way, I Love my opiate-like pleasure. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.

It is finished.....

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz
I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

  

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illosopher
Charter member
596 posts
Mon Sep-04-00 07:09 AM

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24. "RE: How Original!"
In response to Reply # 18


          

If you want the point read it again and again, than maybe your great god from the sky will fly down and explain it to you!

  

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nushooz
Member since Nov 05th 2002
14 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 05:10 AM

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34. "Are you talking about God"
In response to Reply # 24


          

(who doesn't fly ANYWHERE - Boy, are you knowledgible) or your god of ill-philosophy??? Either way, there's really no need to read and read and read and really NOTHING to explain....

You HATED on Christianity..... "It's so funny to see so many of you cling to your Christian dogma when it's obvious it is an instituion hell bent on world domination, wealth, pacification of the masses, etc...."

Christianity practiced in truth and in spirit is not about domination and pacification ALTHOUGH, My Father's rich in houses and land; He holds the world in the palm of His hand...... But it would appear that YOUR experiences have been parrallel to those instances that I gave. Get some truths about my religion, my opiate, ask questions if you must, but don't make GLOBAL judgements with LOCAL information.

How come every baby phillosopher or self proclaimed thinker gotta try and make his first steps toward what he/she thinks is wisdom by knocking down religion?

Sure, you may have some valid points but at what price will you make them? Were you interested in informing and having discussion or were you more interested in allienating and sprouting confrontation?

Once again, if you don't know, ask somebody......

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

  

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illosopher
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Tue Sep-05-00 07:00 AM

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35. "RE: Are you talking about God"
In response to Reply # 34


          

I've never said Christianity doesn't have any good points but it's deteriments heavily outweighs it attributes. Take note that i refer to Christianity under the context of it being distorted by Constitine (i'm not talking about the Eastern Orthodox and Coptic Churches I said The Western Church if you would've have paid attention before getting emotionally blinded), secondly Christianity and the Teaching of Christ are not the same thing to quote KRS 1.

peace

  

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BurbKnight
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106857 posts
Thu Aug-31-00 12:12 PM

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19. "Sad n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Peace!!!!!!

AIM: BurbKnight

--"The Broke Diaries" ...... prolly the first book that I will buy and actually read it completely.

-I ain't the norm.... so take your being normal statements elsewhere. - Me

- And if 'if' was a spliff, man we'd all be HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII...... IIIIIIIIII.... IIIIIIIGH.- De La Soul

-It's been a long tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime © 62nd Assassin.
Okayplayer Directory: http://theblackknight.tripod.com/okayplayer/okayplayer.html

My homepage:
http://members.tripod.com/~TheBlackKnight

  

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lolatin

Thu Aug-31-00 01:26 PM

  
21. "Jehovah"
In response to Reply # 19


          

Jehovah's Witness - a member of a group that witness by distributing literature and by personal evangalism to beliefs in the theocratic rule of God, the sinfulness of organized religions and governments, and an immiminent millenium

  

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MisterGrump
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32144 posts
Mon Sep-04-00 07:17 AM

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25. "Ahhhh.........."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Somebody must have REALLY liked "Fight Club"!


However,and please explain this to me, why in that movie did people become zombie like "nazis" instead "free" men not afraid of death but expectant of it?



Little........................

Grump
M.W.S.
Advisor on Special and Covert Operations
"Giving folks a better, improved way of creeping"


"How many niggaz who will actually kill still rhymin?
How many niggaz who are actually signed still killin? ..
.. and when it comes to killin a mic, they ain't willin
and I'm supposed to be shook? That's the shit that kills me"
P. Monch

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

  

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illosopher
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596 posts
Mon Sep-04-00 08:29 AM

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26. "RE: Ahhhh.........."
In response to Reply # 25


          

Why are most people in REALLIFE zombies and not free? Are you are free?

  

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MisterGrump
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32144 posts
Mon Sep-04-00 08:43 AM

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27. "Nahhhhhhhhhh"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

I'm a "slave".

In other folks's eyes, I'm a devout believer.





Little........................

Grump
M.W.S.
Advisor on Special and Covert Operations
"Giving folks a better, improved way of creeping"


"How many niggaz who will actually kill still rhymin?
How many niggaz who are actually signed still killin? ..
.. and when it comes to killin a mic, they ain't willin
and I'm supposed to be shook? That's the shit that kills me"
P. Monch

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

  

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illosopher
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596 posts
Mon Sep-04-00 07:52 PM

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30. "RE: Nahhhhhhhhhh"
In response to Reply # 27


          

What do believe in? I'm curious...

  

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MisterGrump
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Tue Sep-05-00 04:40 AM

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32. "Christianity"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Like most of my classes, I read the book FIRST then I listen to the preacher give his interpretation. There have been times i haven't agreed with what he said, so I followed my heart instead.


problem with that?



Little........................

Grump
M.W.S.
Advisor on Special and Covert Operations
"Giving folks a better, improved way of creeping"


"How many niggaz who will actually kill still rhymin?
How many niggaz who are actually signed still killin? ..
.. and when it comes to killin a mic, they ain't willin
and I'm supposed to be shook? That's the shit that kills me"
P. Monch

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

  

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illosopher
Charter member
596 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 07:03 AM

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36. "RE: Christianity"
In response to Reply # 32


          

I don't have problem with that. i have problem with what Western Christianity had brought to the world. If you don't understand the context i speaking of you are the one with problem....

  

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MisterGrump
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Tue Sep-05-00 07:44 AM

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40. "I understand"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

thing is though, you make it sound like it is the SOLE blame of all our problems. C'mon now, I KNOW you heard of Muslims enslaving Africans! I know you realize that Hinduism follows a STRICT caste system that got worse when capitalism was brought to India!

So, really, how much more beef can you have with Christianity when it ain't the only one to place blame on?



Little........................

Grump
M.W.S.
Advisor on Special and Covert Operations
"Giving folks a better, improved way of creeping"


"How many niggaz who will actually kill still rhymin?
How many niggaz who are actually signed still killin? ..
.. and when it comes to killin a mic, they ain't willin
and I'm supposed to be shook? That's the shit that kills me"
P. Monch

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

  

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illosopher
Charter member
596 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 08:15 AM

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41. "RE: I understand"
In response to Reply # 40


          

I am very knowledgeable and critical of the downfalls of those people as well. This is main reason i am not supportive of instituationalized religion be it Islam, Chritsianity, etc. I'm reffering to the negative effect Christanity has had, it had been influential than both Islam and Hinduism, which have mainly have affected the area from North Africa, East Africa, The Middle East to the Indian Subcontinent. You can continue to aviod the fact that Western Christianity is foul by pointing flaws in other Dogmas, it only supports my thesis even more....

  

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MisterGrump
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32144 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 10:46 AM

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42. "Okay then....."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

so if since you believe that it's pitfalls are too much, what's the alternative that you have in mind?



Little........................

Grump
M.W.S.
Advisor on Special and Covert Operations
"Giving folks a better, improved way of creeping"


"How many niggaz who will actually kill still rhymin?
How many niggaz who are actually signed still killin? ..
.. and when it comes to killin a mic, they ain't willin
and I'm supposed to be shook? That's the shit that kills me"
P. Monch

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

  

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illosopher
Charter member
596 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 12:45 PM

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44. "RE: Okay then....."
In response to Reply # 42


          

knowledge of nature...everything you need to know about self and others lies in nature not outdated written to confuse the masses....

i stand to learn more about the world by studying it and my fellow man not embracing philosophies of conveinece(sp) that have been used to subjugate humans and pacify them...

  

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MisterGrump
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Tue Sep-05-00 05:42 PM

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47. "Oh really?"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

A follower of Darwin? Or are you just saying that we should just be like Adam n Eve in the Garden of Eden?


I'm saying we have already observed nature, go read what folks done said already.





Little........................

Grump
M.W.S.
Advisor on Special and Covert Operations
"Giving folks a better, improved way of creeping"


"How many niggaz who will actually kill still rhymin?
How many niggaz who are actually signed still killin? ..
.. and when it comes to killin a mic, they ain't willin
and I'm supposed to be shook? That's the shit that kills me"
P. Monch

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

  

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illosopher
Charter member
596 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 08:18 PM

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48. "RE: Oh really?"
In response to Reply # 47


          

As soon as someone starts talkin' about nature some body always gotta bring up Darwin. If you think he was the first cat to use nature as a way of understanding the processes of life you need to run to your local library. Let me take a quote from one my essential readings The Art of Peace.

"Now and again, it is necessary to seclude yourself among deep mountains and hidden valleys to restore your link to the source of life. Breathe in and let yourself soar to the ends of the universe; breathe out and bring the cosmos back inside. Next, breathe up all fecundity and vibrancy of the earth. Finally, blend the breath of heaven and the breath of earth with your own, becoming the Breath of Life itself."

We cannot just go by the accounts of our forefathers we must complie our own manuscripts to pass down, like the wisemen of antiquity. The reason why the generations are becoming so stagnant is that the wisdom we apply (while in many ways timeless) is becoming more and more outdated. We must take a pro-active stance to spirituality and scribe a definite spiritual manual for our times or be stuck in a forgotten time..


  

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MisterGrump
Charter member
32144 posts
Wed Sep-06-00 06:36 AM

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49. "Ha Ha"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

The words you just wrote ain't no different from what alot of peeps do on this earth.


"Breathe in, breathe out"


To me it's much deeper than that, Mane!



Little........................

Grump
M.W.S.
Advisor on Special and Covert Operations
"Giving folks a better, improved way of creeping"


"How many niggaz who will actually kill still rhymin?
How many niggaz who are actually signed still killin? ..
.. and when it comes to killin a mic, they ain't willin
and I'm supposed to be shook? That's the shit that kills me"
P. Monch

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

  

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Lysithya

Mon Sep-04-00 08:57 AM

  
28. "Hope ya don't mind me saying......."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Facinating that really made me think about what ya saying !! A lot of points made !!
I just thought I'd say I agree wit what ya said and I understand what ya saying !!
Its a pity tha others didn't !!
I remember learning about how religion was used too keep slaves and different cultures under control !! as well as losing their idenity so I see what ya saying !!





***************** *******************
"This place is sacred to the goddess"-Anyte
"I defined my pride,Through somebodys else's eyes"-Jill Scott
"No longer drop enemy blood"-Anyte
"I ain't got no bars to this cage"-Jill Scott

  

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AfricanHerbsman

Tue Sep-05-00 12:57 AM

  
31. "scarface.."
In response to Reply # 0


          


'mind playing tricks on me '94':

sometimes I want to end it, but I don't though
they tell me to see my pastor but I don't go
cause they all be on this one street
so I take it upon myself to thank Him one-deep
and give my money to the most needy
never put it in the hands of the most greedy
cause their putting a price tag on a man's word
and it's a fashion show, so the men flirt..
world is ending so they try to make us switch fast
and they're opening up these churches for some quick cash
and using the money for their new cribs
while brother johnson just got kicked out where he lived
I follow no man cause men be phoney:
my mind was playing tricks on me.
______________________________________

seize your time! - marley/wailers

player, this is not a game/said it before when through the door I came.. - ras kass

  

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illosopher
Charter member
596 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 07:11 AM

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37. "Marley and Tosh"
In response to Reply # 31


          

I'm feelin' that quote...

Preacher man don't tell me heaven is under the earth
I know you don't know what life is really worth
Is not all that glitters in gold and
Half the story has never been told
So now you see the light, aay
Stand up for your right. Come on

Most people think great God will come from the sky
Take away ev'rything, and make ev'rybody feel high
But if you know what life is worth
You would look for yours on earth
And now you see the light
You stand up for your right, yeah!

We're sick and tired of your ism and skism game
Die and go to heaven in Jesus' name, Lord
We know when we understand
Almighty God is a living man
You can fool some people sometimes
But you can't fool all the people all the time
So now we see the light
We gonna stand up for our right





  

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janey
Charter member
123120 posts
Tue Sep-05-00 04:58 AM

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33. "Hey, Ill"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Two questions:

1. Have you read The Book (on the taboo against knowing who you are), by Alan Watts? It's a little dated, but he does put forward many of your ideas succinctly and pretty eloquently.

2. How come you never answered the questions I put to you above? I feel left out.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

  

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AbdulJaleel
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23879 posts
Fri Sep-08-00 01:42 PM

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50. "truly ill..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and not in a good way. Without religion we would be in worse shape.

"Thought Twice, shoulda thought once... got played for the dunce" Malik B

www.instagram.com/schemeofthings

  

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