this post is inspired by the dead prez thread. there's a discussion about black children being taught by black educators and attending black (or "minority") operated schools. so the question is this:

where will we get the teachers?

i am in grad school, and i'm studying elementary education. i have yet to meet another latino in my program. so far i've met 3 black students and a few asians. only one is not an international student. when i was in undergrad, i never met any asians studying education, and i only knew one black person and 2 latinas who were education majors. in both schools, while we were not the majority, there were certainly significant amounts of non-caucasian students. now, i can't tell from my current school since i don't know a lot of people, but in my old school it seemed as if the majority of black and latino students were business majors.

so how can we complain about there not being enough black/latino/asian teachers when not enough of us are studying to become teachers? why aren't there more of us in the education field? is it because teaching won't make one a millionaire? too stressful? too many hurdles? we collectively hate children? what's the problem?

__________________

"If I was sisqo I woulda went up there and said "I cant accept this award, I am not what is considered hip-hop to anyone who knows what hip-hop is" but NO, he has to do his fruity dance all the way down the aisle smiling like hes won his oj prize."- atruhead on the mtv awards.

__________________

MSN IM name: azucar18
__________________

http://community.webtv.net/azucar18/yetanotherwasteof - giving short people big reasons to smile since 1998.

___________________

i am jesus's little sunbeam.

I think it's because of the money. it's true that teachers don't make the bank that a doctor or a lawyer or even more important - ENTERTAINERS, ATHELETES & POLITICIANS. Our priorities are screwed!

Why does anybody need $400,000 a year to live? Teachers don't make 10% of that. Man that's effed up!

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

even more important
>- ENTERTAINERS, ATHELETES & POLITICIANS.

There is nothing wrong with them making that money, becuase they are providing a service that we desire & are willing to pay for...

And, becuase it is not directly coming out of our pockets...what do I mean? A CD will be 15 dollars regardless, and if it doesn't go to the entertainer, it goes to the CEO of the record compnay.....That's between them, not us.

It is the public funds that spending priorities should be questioned...(How many times do you gotta pave I95?!?!?!?)


Carry On.

****************************************

BLACK_ENGINEER

Is a nigga your complexion, or is it all in your mind? (C) Common


I hate being cheap, but I hate being broke more. - Fire

One girl told me I should have my underground pass revoked. - Conceited_Bastard.

There is no doubt that these folk make bank.
My questions/concern is why is it that our society values what they do more so than the ppl that taught them - and will teach others.

Gotta go. I'll be back.

Live
Nu
I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

Obviously because men wanted to be professional athletes at one point. So they are willing to pay other men to do what they always wanted to do.

k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

then it's OK???

Live
Nu
I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

It's what people will pay for. Better yet, do we want people in education because they can get paid?

Aren't we better off by paying our teachers low wages so that we only attract those who truly want to do it?

k. orr
son of a teacher, playing devil's advocate

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>It's what people will pay for.
> Better yet, do we want people in education because they can get paid?

K., don't let this devil's advocate thing get outta hand
Patrick Ewing is/was a good basketball player. do you think he's stuck around all this time just cause he wants to get paid. No. I would say that there are folk in that industry that do it because they love the game. So they are paid - quite well - to do something that they love to do. Why can't it be that way for ppl who teach? And by the way, the non-Patrick Ewings sit on the bench.

>Aren't we better off by paying our teachers low wages so that we only attract those
>who truly want to do it?

Again, my answer is Hell no. c Patrick Ewing anaology.

>son of a teacher, playing devil's advocate

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz - daughter of a 20 year teacher's aid (guess how much $$$ she was makin), playing God diciple

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

>Patrick Ewing is/was a good basketball
>player. do you think
>he's stuck around all this
>time just cause he wants
>to get paid. No.

I think greed is a major motivator. Pat is probably thinking to himself, what else could I do with my life? (well maybe not pat, but i'm sure Allen Iverson is hoping that he can fall back to a rap career)

> I would say that
>there are folk in that
>industry that do it because
>they love the game.

I think there are plenty of people who love the game, and lots of them couldn't do anything else. Sure you got a Bill Bradley, David Robinson, and some others. But I have a suspicion many of the NBA pros weren't up till 3 in the morning trying to finish their science fair project.

>So they are paid -
>quite well - to do
>something that they love to
>do. Why can't it
>be that way for ppl
>who teach?

We do, for the very top people in their field. Suburban schools, private schools, college professors. It just happens that the well paid teachers don't work in minority schools.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

Simply because there is a need for teachers...

So is it better to cram 60 kids into a class meant for 30 becuase you can't get teachers, becuase you won't pay them?

Or lose that engineer/accountant/lawyer that coaches & tutors after school, that guy that would be the ideal teacher, but refuses to be paid below what he is worth?

The worse thing is all teachers aren't underpaid...just in city schools, where you actually need them...Do you know how much a Teacher in West Chester NY, Bala Cynwyd, PA or in Bergen County, NJ makes? Plenty.


Ugh.

>Simply because there is a need
>for teachers...

There is a need for QUALIFIED teachers. Yet teachers who come out of education college, more often than not are NOT QUALIFIED.

>So is it better to cram
>60 kids into a class
>meant for 30 becuase you
>can't get teachers, becuase you
>won't pay them?

It's not a question of won't, the question is of can't. Paying teachers is far different from paying athletes. Education money is mostly from property taxes. So to pay more to teachers, my boss needs to pay me more, so I can buy a more expensive house, so I can pay more property tax. And there are many communities that have children, but not a sufficient tax base to support them. In Texas we have a Robin hood program, in rich districts money goes to poor districts. But the effect has only been to marginally bring up the poor schools. Rich schools use other means.

Furthermore reducing class size has not been the answer. Politicians love to use it, cause it seems like a magic bullet. But they tried that in Nevada I believe. 25-->20. It didn't have a whole lot of effect on test scores. (mainly because to bring class sizes down they have to thin out on the quality of teachers).

>Or lose that engineer/accountant/lawyer that coaches
>& tutors after school, that
>guy that would be the
>ideal teacher, but refuses to
>be paid below what he
>is worth?

He wouldn't be. Education is one of those things that you actually need professional training for. The teachers that come in from alternative backgrounds, that only get their teaching certificates, burn out faster than teachers coming in straight from school.

There are 2 professional teacher colleges in the country. One is at Texas A&M actually. I'm using the adjective professional, like you would see it used for legal or medical training. In most education programs, students dont' see a classroom full of children until their final year. A professional program brings a college student/student teacher into the classroom within their 2nd year, and puts the college kid with a trained teacher/mentor.

I could go on and on with the problems of teacher preparation, but that's not the real issue here.

>The worse thing is all teachers
>aren't underpaid...just in city schools,
>where you actually need them...Do
>you know how much a
>Teacher in West Chester NY,
>Bala Cynwyd, PA or in
>Bergen County, NJ makes?
> Plenty.

I think plenty of teachers would disagree with you on the pay thing, but I know what you're talking about. My mom teaches in a white suburb. She's not making as much as her kid's parents, but it's not like she's teaching in Houston Independent School District.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>He wouldn't be. Education is
>one of those things that
>you actually need professional training
>for. The teachers that
>come in from alternative backgrounds,
>that only get their teaching
>certificates, burn out faster than
>teachers coming in straight from
>school.


You missed my point on this...the would have taught in ther first place, and never chosen there current career path. I would have.

>You missed my point on this...the
>would have taught in ther
>first place, and never chosen
>there current career path.
>I would have.

I think you are a special case, and you also haven't taught.

But here is what I'm saying. There are a lot of very unhappy high paid professionals. They are unhappy because they pursued a field for the money. I know at least a couple of attorneys who locked themselves into the field just by going to school. (90-120K ain't no joke). They aren't doing their clients a service because their heart isn't into it.

We reward teachers with prestige. And many teachers make a decent wage. They aren't making money like CS majors, hell even civil engineers, but they are doing a lot better than folks who did not get their degree.

You do not want the back-stabbing conniving type folks that are part and parcel of well paid professions in the class room. (well if you want to teach children to be like that, maybe you do).

But again, there are a lot of problems with education in this country, and only some of them involve educators.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

But we are getting closer.

> reward teachers with prestige

Where do they do that on a regular basis?

>And many teachers make a
>decent wage.

Not where it matters...Philly school system. NY school system...but you know that, cause you teach(i think?)

>They aren't
>making money like CS majors,
>hell even civil engineers, but
>they are doing a lot
>better than folks who did
>not get their degree.

Janitors make more. The workers at Sanitation Department of NY make more the teachers do in alot of the cases.....Yeah teachers make more than Clerks, but come on now...

>You do not want the back-stabbing
>conniving type folks that are
>part and parcel of well
>paid professions in the class
>room. (well if you want
>to teach children to be
>like that, maybe you do).

They are a product of their eviroment. If teachers could increase their salary/prestige & power by backstabbing they would
...

>But we are getting closer.
>
>> reward teachers with prestige
>
>Where do they do that on
>a regular basis?

Anytime you tell someone that you are a teacher, the start going on about how hard your job is et cetera. Compliments don't pay the bills, but these are the kinda rewards you get as a teacher. It is a very respected profession, as opposed to being a mechanic, an attorney, politician.

>>And many teachers make a
>>decent wage.
>
>Not where it matters...Philly school system.
> NY school system...but you
>know that, cause you teach(i
>think?)

I don't teach, although I was considering giving back while I was deciding to go to law school. But they wanted me to do 3 years. I've tutored, and my mom, as well as many friends of the family are teachers. My mom in particular teaches special ed/learning disability/problem kids. So I get an earful every time I go home.

>Janitors make more. The
>workers at Sanitation Department
>of NY make more the
>teachers do in alot of
>the cases.....Yeah teachers make more
>than Clerks, but come on
>now...

In terms of being able to provide for a family they make enough. Many teachers who have been in the workforce for their 10 years can get a house, and have a car. At least that has been my experience with the teachers I know in Houston Texas. And texas is #48-49 when it comes to paying their teachers. But do you see Teachers buying bmw's and volvos? No. But accords and camry's yes.

What do you think is a fair wage?

>They are a product of their
>eviroment. If teachers could
>increase their salary/prestige & power
>by backstabbing they would

Believe me, they do. But the question remains, do you want greed to be the motivation for becoming a teacher?

peace

k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

My boyfriend's a teacher and I'm a lawyer. Both of us feel (and maybe this is self serving on my part) that part of how I'm giving to the community is by bearing the greater load of our joint expenses (we don't live together or anything, but all the entertainment budget comes out of my pocket). So, as well as being emotionally supportive of him, I'm helping him financially to be able to do this job that is in fact quite worthy. No one should have to make it all on their own. Though I wish sometimes that I had someone to lean on, it makes me feel good to know that I'm helping him out.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

R U talkin' ta me? Is my logic faulty? Should I explain further? Or are you referring to K?

Live
Nu
I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

Carry On.

****************************************

BLACK_ENGINEER

Is a nigga your complexion, or is it all in your mind? (C) Common


I hate being cheap, but I hate being broke more. - Fire

One girl told me I should have my underground pass revoked. - Conceited_Bastard.

we waste alot of money repaving highways that were invented for moving heavy equipment. When that same money could create mass-transit that doesn't suck

public money is squandered and wasted on the whims of misinformed public officials


I CALL ON ALL OKAY ACTIVISTS TO ACTUALLY REPRESENT.

We must invade the political arena from all angles.

Rock local meetings, and take offices in our next elections.

We are at a crossroads where we can stand up and take advantage of this artistic and political renaissance or watch it die with our silence.

We should become teachers and lawyers EN MASSE while we still have access to semi-open climates that are ripe for educative revolutions.

D-Best

I AM a lawyer. What are you doing?

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

A little history on Black_Engineer. My Grandmother was a teacher/Principle for years...
2 Masters and she still struggled like a motherfuck to make ends meet. She is ballin now becuase she got herself a Ph.D and Teaches at Temple U.

When it was time for me to go to college and I had casually stated that I what to be a teacher, she convinced me not to do it. Financially it doesn't make sense. Teachers make 30,000 starting....and the incremental raises just don't add up......

If we want people to become teachers, pay em.

Vote people into office that keep education a priority. If you pay them on par with others of there education level, people will teach. I would. I still want too, but explain how I am going to turn down a career that a 25 I make around $70,000 to take a job makin $30,000? You can't.


Once you pay,you won't have too ask that question agian.



Carry On.

****************************************

BLACK_ENGINEER

Is a nigga your complexion, or is it all in your mind? (C) Common


I hate being cheap, but I hate being broke more. - Fire

One girl told me I should have my underground pass revoked. - Conceited_Bastard.

Both of my parents were educators. I make more money than my mother did, and she has a Master's Degree. I have a degree in accounting, and pursued it solely for the money. I would love to go back to school and pursue a degree in education, preferably history or even psychology, but money calls...

It's a hard job, for the money they make...A lot of black teachers that I know, only became teachers because things did not work out in the field that they had previously chose.

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

but, with thw wack salaries, what do you expect?

Carry On.

****************************************

BLACK_ENGINEER

Is a nigga your complexion, or is it all in your mind? (C) Common


I hate being cheap, but I hate being broke more. - Fire

One girl told me I should have my underground pass revoked. - Conceited_Bastard.

man, this ish is crazy. teachers aren't paid like other professionals. education/social services are fields that u have to go into for the love of it not for the money.
also there isn't enough placed on education in this country.
--------sig-----------
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"Poetry is theft, I'm a word kleptomaniac" (c)Patience Agbabi
Ms. Nappiness
http://www.geocities.com/okay_poets/nappiness.html

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

--------sig-----------
Nappiness is next to Godliness!!!
"Poetry is theft, I'm a word kleptomaniac" (c)Patience Agbabi
Ms. Nappiness
http://www.geocities.com/okay_poets/nappiness.html

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

the cash is definitely one reason, but society's values in general definitely factor in. who gets props for being a teacher? as stated, teaching has become a "fall-back job" for a lot of cats (i know some).

real teaching is almost like going into ministry - you do it b/c it is a calling. you're willing to sacrafice. and honestly, for americanized people of color, many of us are taught that we've already made enough sacrafices, and we need to get our slice of the pie. parents want better for their children. they want doctors and lawyers. there's nothing wrong with that. but eventually, you have to see that there's a problem with the equation...to get doctors and lawyers, you need teachers. and OUR kids are not getting the attention they need, not only b/c of messed up teaching, but a messed up system (35 students in a room, can't take their books home, no encouragement, students being passed just b/c teachers are tired of seeing them, etc).

teaching used to be a respected field in the black community, and education was highly valued. now, it's more about the bling bling than the think think, and collectively, that ain't really getting us anywhere.

we need more black teachers, especially males. but how do we get them...i don't know. somehow teaching needs to be made "cool" again. maybe start an okay school or something.

B

Move Over, Girl: A Novel - in stores NOW
Random House
www.chance22.com

--
now playing: The African American Student's Guide to Excellence in College
on deck: another installment of Okaybooks
archives: Spoken Words | Move Over Girl

www.chance22.com
www.lionsstory.org
www.okayplayer.com/books

That is all it would take.

>we need more black teachers, especially
>males. but how do we
>get them...i don't know. somehow
>teaching needs to be made
>"cool" again. maybe start an
>okay school or something.

>we need more black teachers, especially
>males. but how do we
>get them...i don't know. somehow
>teaching needs to be made
>"cool" again. maybe start an
>okay school or something.

.....i think every one has brought up valid points on why folx don't teach........unfortunately, i am not surprised by horror stories anymore......especially overstand...ing that this babylon shitstem is set up to keep the majority of ppl blind.......therefore, easily controlled......this is known.......now, how will we counteract their aggression.......with well-thought out action.......i am at school majoring in engr., but, GOD willing, i will teach (and learn), start a school and community to do what needs to be done.......regardless of the number of supporters.......watch.....or join.....it shall happen......to manifest destiny.......not a sacrifice........a blessing........imho, money is a sad excuse......young, folx are severely hurting.......if we REALLY wanted change........we would have it.......the time is now.....

.....the war is already won.......we just have to play our roles....and fight.......any one who wants to work.....let's connect.....and get free......

......peace&blessings.........ukaa......a small axe.......

Damn!!! You guys bring up some good points. I’m on both sides of the coin. I agree with ‘B’, it is a calling. In undergrad I was in law. After graduating I got an opportunity to teach college and realized my true interest. 4 and a half years after graduating with my bachelors I am in the final stages of finishing my PhD. in Education. All the classes I’ve taken from my Masters and Doctorate I’ve been the only or one of few black men in the class. In the grad classes I’ve been in I have seen a majority of white women, a few black women, and a few white men, Asians and Latinos of both genders. Shit…and all these graduate classes have been in Philadelphia which has a huge school district that on the average has 95% minority students (80-85% of African decent).

Your right, who is going to teach our children? Two sayings come to mind when I think why I got into education, “EACH ONE TEACH ONE” & “EDUCATE YOUR OWN BLACK CHILDREN”. I think it’s interesting to live in a society that puts a high regard on education but doesn’t balance it out with $$$. All you hear is do well in school, go to college,… How do we believe the concept of school is going to work if we are not putting proper systems in place to support this idea. When I say support I’m talking about $$, good teachers, better administrators, building community partnerships, better school environments, parent involvement, etc. Don’t get me wrong, these positive changes are taking place in small pockets but it needs to occur on a larger scale. When I say this I’m mainly talking about inner city schools because schools in the suburbs have problems too but not as many. Also as they say, “THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE”. Teachers can make quite a nice salary in the suburbs than in the inner city, usually more than double.

Going back to “EDUCATE YOUR OWN BLACK CHILDREN”, my parents were and still are very active in my sister’s and my education. They might not have had all the answers but they bust their butts to find out. They knew we weren’t learning all that we should (for example, African American history) so they made us go to the library and get tapes, books etc. and they developed lessons plans for us to do on top of our own work. **Props to my parents**

The only thing I can saw is not everyone is going to go into this profession because they can’t stand the low pay, can only tolerate children in small increments, environment, etc. However, the selected few that do go in the field need to try to make the impact that they know they can make…that is probably the reason why you went into the field in the first place.

***Thanks for letting me ramble on and vent on this topic***

paz
junior
http://members.blackplanet.com/dbcjr/

http://www.recordbreakin.com
http://www.myspace.com/recordbreakin
AOL IM/Ichat: recordbreakin

.:.:.:. EAVESDROP RADIO .:.:.:.
Every Friday 6-8pm (EST)
on 91.7FM in Philadelphia
or listen world wide on-line http://www.WKDU.org
shows achieved at http://w

An underpaid, less than competent Black/Latino etc... teacher in a classroom that understands the children and is some how able to make a connection
OR
A underpaid, less than competent Caucasion teacher who is afraid to touch or try and understand the children?

JUST ASKIN'

Live
Nu
I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

you'll find alot of the future black and latino teachers there. i can't give you exact numbers but many of the students here at my school in nc are elementary through middle grades education majors. more later.

peace

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.