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Dove
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Mon Sep-25-00 08:58 AM

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"Suing in Seattle"


  

          

Read and tell me what you think. This mess has been going on for years in the city - thank God someone's finally speaking out!

BLACK LISTED
Local Club Owner Takes City to Federal Court, Charging Racial Discrimination
by Amy Jenniges

NEXT MONTH, after five years of a legal tug of war, Chris Clifford, owner of Jerseys All-American Sports bar at Seventh and Virginia, is taking city officials to federal court. Clifford also owns the popular 700 Club, which is located upstairs. He is alleging racial discrimination by the Seattle Police Department against his largely black clientele. He says the SPD pulled out all the stops against Jerseys in the early 1990s to shut it down--blaming the club for all of the 911 calls in the area, rallying tenants to call and complain, and getting the liquor board and health department to scrutinize the establishment.

Clifford, who is white, was vocal in the last decade about his club's problems with the cops, and his concerns made local papers, including The Stranger.
The federal case, however, is likely to bring those concerns into sharper focus. Thanks to the trial, The Stranger was able to obtain documents that show just how strong his case is.

The crux of Clifford's lawsuit is simple: Using hiphop as a euphemism for blacks, city officials were racist in their effort to dictate what could be played at various clubs.

Among other things, court documents show that the police kept "project progress reports" detailing their systematic attempts to shut Jerseys down. The notes and letters among city officials in the case file also show that the city kept its eye on other black clubs--building a case that the attitude about Jerseys was part of a larger pattern of prejudice. The city did not comment on the case.

Seattle civil rights attorney David Osgood, who worked on the case in its early years, says the suit against the city is solid. "The evidence is conclusive.
It is in the police department's own writing, the how-to cookbook of harassing a business out of existence... for catering to African Americans," he says.

Clifford sued back in 1995, and may finally see his day in court on October 18. However, the city still has a motion pending to avoid a jury trial.

The city has good reason to be afraid of a trial. The following gems culled from the case file might indicate to the public that institutional racism exists in Seattle, opening the door for other lawsuits.

Handwritten Notes from City Council Member Margaret Pageler's office, dated 1992.

"Black gangs hanging out are the problem.
You can control the kind of people that come in:
By music you play
By people you let in
By police presence
Hip-hop nights attract a boom-box crowd.
Club patrons are not residents of the area."

Mark Sidran's letter to representatives of the Mezzanine nightclub , dated December 5, 1994.
"If your client intends... to continue playing a music format which they have argued throughout the hearing as a reason for the violence, the City will not postpone the nuisance abatement hearing."

Mark Sidran's comments to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, dated January 11, 1994.
"There is a relationship between a format that draws young African-American males and gunfire and violence on the streets. This music format in late-night, after-hours clubs is associated with criminal acts inside and outside the club.
"We have not said 'change the music format.' But we have pointed out the obvious problems with it."

SPD project progress record maintained by Officer Christine Batdorf that logged the efforts to shut down Jerseys.
"July 17, 1992. They both state that Jersey's is getting better. They feel that because of all the attention that Jersey's was getting the crowd has moved on. I have had information that the crowd may be moving to Belltown. Belltown has recently made changes to after hours on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Their music format is R and B music."

SPD Memos, Letters, and Notes From Assistant Chief R. Skagen to Captain P. Munter, dated January 13, 1992, regarding Jerseys.
Two officers visited the club three days later to
discuss the business' license.
"The patrons are all described as young, black males that have created havoc in the neighborhood particularly between the hours of 2:00 a.m. to 4:00 a.m. when they leave the location."

From Sgt. R. Garner to Sgt. M. Olson, dated January 28, 1992, regarding Jerseys.
"Our main problem with the place is on Friday and
Saturday nights when they cater to a primarily rap
crowd and stay open until 3 a.m."

From Lt. D. Vandergiessen, not dated.
"Please review the attached memo regarding the music format change at the Pier 70 nightclub. I'm not sure what we can do about this, but perhaps Jan Drago might be interested in knowing about it. Maybe we could contact the manager and express our concerns about this format, and at least see if they are aware of the problems that come with it."

Letter regarding Sharky's, a club that offered R&B one night a week and closed in 1997, from Officer
Jim Van De Bogart, dated September 26, 1995.
"I am not sure how this problem is going to be resolved short of... entertainment format, thus changing the clientele that is disruptive."

Community Police Team notes regarding the Iguana
Cantina, a club that took over the former Pier 70 bar location, offering R&B music on the weekends, dated February 7, 1997.
" Fedde needs to come up with viable alternatives instead of the Hip Hop and R & B music on the Friday and Saturday nights. Ms. Fedde has not given any reasonable suggestions on a different type of music on the weekends."

"Problem Solving Process" notes on Oscar's restaurant, another establishment with a strong black clientele.
"Is the type of music that's being played attracting the 'wrong crowd?'"

Jerseys All-American Sports Bar, which opened in 1991, changed their music format and eliminated the rap and R&B music in 1992 to stay open without harassment. The damages Clifford is seeking in Judge Robert S. Lasnik's U.S. District courtroom would cover the business lost when he was forced to change his entertainment.

This city has fucked every club owner to ever have a Hip Hop/R&B format to their dance nights. Tell me what you think. Same things happening in your city?

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Suing in Seattle
d-Best
Sep 25th 2000
1
More on Seattle
Sep 25th 2000
2
a question I'd ask the mayor
Sep 25th 2000
3
RE: a question I'd ask the mayor
Sep 27th 2000
4
      actually
Sep 27th 2000
5
           As you read this, remember, I'm on your side
Sep 27th 2000
7
                it won't be a protest-please come
Sep 27th 2000
8
                     I forgot to say thanks.
Sep 29th 2000
12
Even more: Club owner speaks.
Sep 29th 2000
13
      good deal
Sep 29th 2000
16
RE: Suing in Seattle
Sep 27th 2000
6
thank you for that
Sep 27th 2000
9
PRESS RELEASE FOR SATURDAY RALLY
Sep 28th 2000
10
up for unity! n/m
Sep 28th 2000
11
More commentary from Davey D
Sep 29th 2000
14
up in support...
Sep 29th 2000
15
Thank you wb
Sep 30th 2000
17
TODAY'S RALLY WAS A SUCCESS!!!!
Sep 30th 2000
18
RE: TODAY'S RALLY WAS A SUCCESS!!!!
Oct 01st 2000
21
Well if you introduced yourself as such....
Oct 01st 2000
22
      RE: Well if you introduced yourself as such....
Oct 01st 2000
24
           hey
Oct 02nd 2000
25
RE: TODAY'S RALLY WAS A SUCCESS!!!!
Oct 01st 2000
23
cute
Oct 02nd 2000
26
yay!!!!
Oct 02nd 2000
27
      pictures at www.daveyd.com
Oct 02nd 2000
28
RALLY MAKES FRONT COVER!!
Oct 01st 2000
19
i gotta get a paper!!
Oct 01st 2000
20

d-Best

Mon Sep-25-00 09:07 AM

  
1. "RE: Suing in Seattle"
In response to Reply # 0


          

it's about time

  

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REDeye
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Mon Sep-25-00 10:27 AM

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2. "More on Seattle"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"This city has fucked every club owner to ever have a Hip Hop/R&B format to their dance nights."

This is so true, but have you been following the story on Friday's shootout in Pioneer Square?

The Bohemian switched from reggae to rap a couple months ago, and the neighbors claim to have had nothing but problems ever since, culminating with 5 people being shot on Friday. Even Mayor Schell came out saying hip hop music is the problem (a spokesperson later recanted.) All those against the Bohemian claim the accusation of racism is unjustified because the club had a primarily black clientele before the switch. So black people are not the problem, it's hip hop music.

While it's certainly a flawed argument, it's also easy to see how they would jump to that conclusion.

I found it interesting that no one reporting on this shooting mentioned that a large hip hop show, Word of Mouth, went off without a hitch that same night.

Can you really expect them to find a distinction between different types of hip hop music?

RED
(after the initial reports, police later said the shootings were unrelated to the club, as reported below. Sort of.)

from www.seattletimes.com

Monday, September 25, 2000, 12:00 a.m. Pacific

Gang dispute spurred shootings, police say

by Nancy Bartley
Seattle Times staff reporter

To many, the lyrics are the violent theme song of life on the streets. But it was an isolated incident of gang violence - and not the music - that caused a shootout which left five men wounded near a hip-hop nightclub this weekend, say Seattle police.

In a news conference Saturday, Mayor Paul Schell and business owners blamed the Bohemian Cafe's switch from reggae to hip-hop music two months ago for creating an atmosphere in which nightclub patrons form unruly crowds outside.

But Seattle police spokesman Clem Benton said yesterday that the gunfire at 3 a.m. Saturday was an isolated incident related to gang violence.

The shootings occurred about an hour after the Pioneer Square club had closed. About 100 people hung around a nearby parking lot. Shortly after a police van pulled away, one shot sounded, then 14 followed. Five men, including the two gunmen, were wounded.

Yesterday, three men remained in intensive care at Harborview Medical Center - one in critical condition and two in serious condition. The two others were treated and released. The men's names were withheld.

A police official said the men belonged to rival factions of the same gang.

Police guards were at the hospital, Benton said.

Anthony Frazier, owner of the Bohemian, did not return phone calls yesterday.

But an employee at the Art Bar, in Belltown, said it hosts hip-hop music once a week without any problems.
Copyright 2000 The Seattle Times Company

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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Dove
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Mon Sep-25-00 11:59 AM

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3. "a question I'd ask the mayor"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Do you think country western music inspired/inspires rednecks to hang people?

I agree with what was said in the article - Hip Hop is a euphamism for 'black people' and the Seattle city council has notoriously done everything they could to make it impossible for people to play Hip Hop.
Back in the early 80's Club Broadway went for 3 years straight with no murders, no shootings, only 1 stabbing and a couple of beatings with baseball bats in the parking lot. That club rocked 4 nights a week solidly - played only Hip Hop - and never had any major violence. The city first made the club change it's format by placing an excessively high insurance requirement on the club owner - we think they were afraid of soooooo many black & asian people congregating in one area - THEN the city shut the club down later after the owner had some personal problems.
Skoochies (later the Oz, then dv8), The Spectrum, Jersey's, and a plethera of other clubs had random acts of violence, but overall were decent places to hang out. The city focused on them excessively and looked for any and every reason to shut them down.
When the city enacted the Teen Dance Ordinance, there were no longer all-ages night clubs, all-ages shows AND a curfew was set forth - they still had a negative focus on Hip Hop clubs.
Now that the city is letting up on the all-ages show rules, we are starting to see more concerts coming into town again (cuz back in the day we used to get alllll the underground shows) and Hip Hop is alive and well in the city.
Hip Hop doesn't cause violence. People cause violence - and ordinarily it is a VERY small group of people who fuck it up for eeeeeeeeeverybody.
I refuse to 'see' the side of the mayor on this issue. He can eat a dick.
They need to focus on crime, not music.

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

Email: Tygereyz67@aol.com
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jigga
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31583 posts
Wed Sep-27-00 01:21 PM

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4. "RE: a question I'd ask the mayor"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

While I'm not at the level of Pharoahe Monch on Soundbombing 2 "...at least I shot the Mayor" I'm appalled that our city leader so 2 speak who be so quick 2 pass judgment on an issue like this an immediatley blame rap music 4 the violence that happened outside the Bohemian. Yes they do play reggae most nights w/ no problems but one of my friends also hosted a rap concert there earlier this year Raekwon of the Wu-Tang (which can definitly be considered hardcore rap) w/o any problems of violence before during or after the show that i'm aware of. Dove brings up a very good point that the local media failed 2 mentioned the fact that there was a sold out rap concert further up the street also in downtown Seattle that caused no problem at all. Politicians will be politicians (a.k.a schmucks).

I'm still official, (why) cuz I'm on a roll like toilet tissue -Ras Kass

Some think I'm clever, others think I'm the one who makes too many references 2 weather...or not. -Evidence of Dialated Peoples

They never know we enemies until they hear me say it, till their kids on the phone sayin please Daddy pay it, till their brains on the floor, mixed on the pavement. -Nas

Blow you off the atlas, as if, I caught you fuckin my wife, on my thousand dollar mattress. -Havoc of Mobb Deep

I stand out like a nigga on a hockey team...I'm Nestle when its crunch time...Weight on my shoulder, flucuates like Oprah, my refridgerator poetry's magnetic like Ultra, you could'nt hang if you was a poster. -Common

  

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Dove
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32915 posts
Wed Sep-27-00 02:01 PM

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5. "actually"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

this was forwarded to me through the Seattle Hip Hop e-group - we are having a meeting at the Sit N Spin tonight to discuss a rally being put together by some local Hip Hop headz to protest the attitude of the city toward Hip Hop. I'll post the details when I know more - but this is gonna be huge.
I am so proud of our local folks - it's about time we put our headz together and made a difference.
Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

Email: Tygereyz67@aol.com
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REDeye
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6598 posts
Wed Sep-27-00 03:10 PM

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7. "As you read this, remember, I'm on your side"
In response to Reply # 5


          

But the key defeating your enemy is to think like they think. Military strategists understood this centuries ago, Dr. King understood this. So, if you go into this with the attitude of not wanting to see their side of it, you may be in for a whole lot of unnecessary head-butting.

Police need to focus on crime and criminals, instead of the types of music criminals play. But a lot of criminals listen to rap music. While that may seem incidental, understanding this is crucial to understanding the police department's approach to this issue.

If a venue plays one type of music, and its patrons cause no problems, then they switch to a different type of music, and the new patrons do cause problems, you tell me what conclusions they are supposed to draw. It may be wrong, but until you can answer that question - not for me, but for them - then you won't get them to change the practice. If your only goal is to get them to stop using hip hop as another word for black, fine, they'll come up with a new euphemism.

What you may succeed in doing is driving their behavior under the table. Next time they won't be stupid enough to have notes. Next time, the neighboring business won't bother calling the police, but might just take matters into their own hands.

Because regardless of whether or not there is racism involved in the motives of the police or the mayor's office, there is a problem. There is a clear increase in criminal activities in and around venues that play hip hop music over venues with other formats. You and I know there is no causal relationship between the two. I'm sure the police know this too.

In their eyes, police hate rap music not so much because it's loud or because they can't relate to it or even because blacks listen to it. In their eyes, where there is rap music, there is violence. The music draws several criminal elements together in one central location, which is a receipe for violence. A plausible response to this would be to keep those elements from congregating. Yes, it would be better to deal with the criminals at the source, whatever that may be. But how? How do you get rid of gangs? How do you get rid of short-tempered people who haven't committed any crimes, yet are likely to do so once they are thrown into tight spaces with other short-tempered people?

I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of a protest. I'm not saying you can't achieve whatever goal you have with this. But there is a real problem that the people, the police and this city needs to fix. And simply telling them their way of fixing it is wrong doesn't help. Someone has to find a way that works.

Please keep me informed as to your plans, either through a post here or by email (redeyefilm@yahoo.com). I wish you guys luck.

RED
(I've got so much more to say, but I gotta go.)

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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Dove
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Wed Sep-27-00 05:38 PM

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8. "it won't be a protest-please come"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

Westlake Center - Saturday the 30th - 2:00pm
Hip Hop for Peace
Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

Email: Tygereyz67@aol.com
Wanna paaaaaage me? Email up to 200 characters: Dove@myairmail.com

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REDeye
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Fri Sep-29-00 05:54 AM

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12. "I forgot to say thanks."
In response to Reply # 8


          

Thanks for the info and the invite. I'll try to make it.

Wear a white carnation. I'll say hi.

RED
(the wetlands! the wet- wetlands!)

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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REDeye
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6598 posts
Fri Sep-29-00 06:00 AM

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13. "Even more: Club owner speaks."
In response to Reply # 2


          

(Hey, I didn't know this dude was white! I wonder how that plays into any of this.)


Friday, September 29, 2000, 07:40 a.m. Pacific

Seattle nightclub owner denies blame in shootings

by Dave Birkland
Seattle Times staff reporter

The owner of the Pioneer Square nightclub near where five people were shot last weekend said his club is not to blame for the shootings and faulted Mayor Paul Schell for "condemnation of the business" he owns.

Anthony Frazier called a news conference yesterday to combat the black eye his Bohemian Cafe has received since Saturday, when a gunfight erupted about 3 a.m. in a nearby parking lot, killing one and wounding four others.

"My club is upscale, clean and - unlike what you may read or see on TV - not a haven for gang members," Frazier said.

What happens outside the club, he said, is the police's responsibility, not his.

Frazier, who said he will not change the club's format, stressed that he could not even be sure any of the shooters had been inside his club, which closed an hour before the shootings.

In the eight years he has owned the club, Frazier said, he can count on one hand the number of times the police have had to intervene. The music featured at the Bohemian is reggae, not hip-hop, although 5 percent to 10 percent of the groups he books do play hip-hop, he said.

He invited Schell and Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske to join the customers at his club this weekend to "see what a safe place it is . . . to be more informed."

Hip-hop music has been blamed for drawing crowds prone to violence, but Frazier denied any link.

"The violence that we are seeing in downtown Seattle is not about music any more than a baseball game against Oakland could be to blame for the shooting . . . near Safeco Field on Monday," he said.

Four people were shot in a car late Sunday near Safeco Field. Police are still investigating, but say there is no connection to the Saturday shootings in Pioneer Square.

Tina Bueche, owner of Dutch Ned's Restaurant & Bar in Pioneer Square, said she believes there is a connection between hip-hop and violence. There is a history of violence by "some, not many" customers drawn to clubs that feature hip-hop music, she said.

"All you have to do is look at the facts," she said.

Bueche said she is unsure whether other Pioneer Square businesses will try to force Frazier to drop hip-hop, "but everyone will be watching very, very close," she said.

At the suggestion of police, Frazier said, his security guards use a hand-held metal detector to keep guns out of the club, check identification closely, and are able to identify gang-type clothing and make sure members don't get inside.

"I work with the police on an ongoing basis," he said.

Instead of pointing at his club, more blame should be placed on the owners of the surrounding unlit and unsupervised parking lots, where people gather after the clubs close, Frazier said.

Schell also should step up and put more officers in all areas of downtown, he added.

Maud Daudon, Seattle deputy mayor, said Schell, who talked about the problems at a news conference the day after the shootings, did not single out the Bohemian Cafe as the source of the problems.

Schell did not identify "any specific location that was the source of the problems," Daudon said.

But Schell did say things got out of control at "a club" and blamed hip-hop music. He later said he was not against that type of music.

Police activity has been beefed up in all areas of downtown, including Belltown and Pioneer Square, Daudon said. Stopping the violence is the mayor's "No. 1 priority," she said.


Copyright 2000 The Seattle Times Company

RED
(giving you true lies since 1991)

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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Dove
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Fri Sep-29-00 12:48 PM

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16. "good deal"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

I hope he shows up on Saturday too.
Last night reps from Darkside Productions, Jasiri Media Group, CAVE, Seasick, the city council, the SPD, and a couple other individuals were on KUBE from 8-9 discussing the issues at hand as well as the rally on Saturday. I'm glad they were able to get the airtime for that.
Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~


"One day all them bags gon' get in your way..." Erykah

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

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didg
Member since Feb 05th 2004
1 posts
Wed Sep-27-00 02:06 PM

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6. "RE: Suing in Seattle"
In response to Reply # 0


          

In the past decade, my old hometown of Rochester, NY has been doing similar things. The mayor instituted a point system that applies to businesses in the city - the business is penalized with points if a crime occurs in or near its premises. The point system includes not only violent crimes, but drug crimes as well. In fact, most of the closings have been due to patrons being arrested for drug possession or dealing drugs on the sidewalk out front. (This raises other legal issues - is it really constitutional for the city to be closing down business owners and denying them profits based on the actions of third parties?)

Most of the businesses that have been closed have been hip hop clubs or all-night restaurants where the cleintele is primarily black (although one of the more high profile closings was a gay drag club).

Along with his point system, the mayor (who, incidentally, is black), has long been pushing for a "revitalization" of the city's urban area. He hopes to achieve this goal by stopping suburban sprawl, and getting people who would otherwise live in the suburbs to move back in the city. He has been courting this group of people by using city funds to subsidize downtown restaurants and clubs that are "upscale" and cater to a white, middle-class crowd.

While the mayor has not been very successful in his quest to relocate white suburbia to the inner city, he has succeeded in at least one thing - supressing urban culture, and replacing it with sports bars, disco bowling, and top 40 dancing.

I'd be very interested to hear the outcome of this Seattle case. It sounds like they are lucky enough to have a lot of stupid people along the way who left quite a paper trail of evidence in their favor.


_____________________________________________


"The world is overrun with the wealthy and the wicked --
But God is sufficient in disposin of affairs." --Mos Def

  

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Dove
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Wed Sep-27-00 05:40 PM

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9. "thank you for that"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

in the light of recent events in the city - we are holding a rally this weekend to unite our hip hop community and talk.
This should be enlightening and healthy.
Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

Email: Tygereyz67@aol.com
Wanna paaaaaage me? Email up to 200 characters: Dove@myairmail.com

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Dove
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32915 posts
Thu Sep-28-00 09:11 AM

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10. "PRESS RELEASE FOR SATURDAY RALLY"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

From Karim w/ Darkside Productions - please try to attend!
This movement is being called Hip Hop for Peace
Key word: Peace


Big up to all the people that attended the meeting which took place today regarding the rally. I was disappointed that many of you that said you would be there, weren't. Anyway, here's what we've come up with for Saturday:

First of all, to have an all out protest/march/rally with this little notice (2 days) could mean all out chaos. Bad and rushed preparation would've meant things wouldn't go as smoothly as we would've hoped.
We need to show the powers that be that we (hip-hop) are an organized force to be reckoned with, and that we have all our shit together. All it would take is one incident, even if it took place down the street for them to blame it on hip-hop and our unruly gathering.

Therefore, we will not have any performances...yet. What we WILL do is have an open forum within ourselves and media discussing what occured, and what it means in the long run. We will write an open letter to the mayor from Seattle's hip-hop heads demanding an official retraction/press conference where we can be present to ask questions and have an open forum. The mayor, at first blamed all this violence on hip-hop. Venue owners of the neighboring clubs, and even the Bohemian's owner blamed all this violence on hip-hop.
On Saturday, we all need to be on our best behavior. Please NO
DRINKING OR WEED SMOKING!! This is already their perception of us, and even though we love to partake in these actions we have to show them that we are civilized and orderly. There will be security on hand so please don't act a fool, or you will be asked to leave.

I know we are all angry over this, but this, once again, is a great time for the community to come together, meet each other, and communicate. We can use our individual powers for our power as a whole.

We are also planning a huge show, in several weeks, with as many
groups as we can fit on one bill that are down for the cause. It is there where we will really show to the media and the city that we can have positive, peaceful events.

Hip-hop is how many of us keep food on our plates. Hip-hop bought the Triple 5 Soul pants, the Air Presto's, and Mecca hat I have on right now. We will let no one take that away from us. They want to take it from us, but we need to show them they don't have that physical and subliminal power over us. This is the real meaning of this rally this Saturday at 2pm at the Westlake Center, not self-promotion, or your web-site, or how your company is taking over the Northwest...Fuck that. Hopefully we can convene and all be peaceful and on our best behavior. We have a lot of shit to work out amongst ourselves this Saturday, please, everyone try to be there.

----Karim

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~


"One day all them bags gon' get in your way..." Erykah

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

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Dove
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11. "up for unity! n/m"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~


"One day all them bags gon' get in your way..." Erykah

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

Email: Tygereyz67@aol.com
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Dove
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Fri Sep-29-00 06:44 AM

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14. "More commentary from Davey D"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

An exerpt from his newsletter today - we made a national noise!!!

Hip Hop Violence -Will It Ever Stop?

*Folks in Seattle are a bit upset about the sweeping generalizations and concerns being raised about the fate of Hip Hop clubs in the Emerald City.. This comes after a altercation and shootings this past Saturday at a Pioneer Square night club called Bohemian Cafe and Lounge. Five people were injured and more then a dozen semi automatic handgun rounds were recovered. This incident prompted nearby club owners and patrons to call upon Seattle's city leaders to complain about the Hip Hop night and encourage them to either get the club owner Anthony Frazier to switch formats or close his doors. Over the past several years more then six Seattle Hip Hop clubs have had to either change format or close their doors. What makes this latest incident so disheartening is that nationwide incidents violence are being cited as proof that Hip Hop causes violence. An article in a
Seattle newspaper laid out a string of incidents from New Jersey to Minneapolis where Hip Hop clubs had to be closed down due to unruly crowds and a 'bad element' consistently showing up.

One club owner Tina Bueche was quoted as saying.. "There's something about the music that seems to bring out the stupidity of the people who hang around outside these clubs.

Another club owner pointed out his club Pioneer Square club Zasu
started experiencing fights and all sorts of drama outside the club during their Hip Hop night earlier this year. The clubs DJs returned to their original format of 80s music..
Still another club owner named Gregory Mountain stated in the article that "There was a violent scent in the air and that trouble was bound to happen".
There is no doubt some of the latest incidents of violence within Hip Hop won't help matters. Most notable is an altercation in which Boston Celtic basketball star Paul Pierce was stabbed 11 times at a night club the other night. Boston police made a public statement that the stabbing may have been attributed to members of the rap group Made Men. The group has vehemently denied any such involvement.. But clearly because of past problems the link between Hip Hop and violence is being established...

Rap star Queen Pen was arrested the other night for fighting another woman named Yolanda Roberts outside the Pulse Night club in New York City.. NYPD are investigating reports of possible gunfire. Adding even more fuel to the fire there was supposedly two men stabbed at an album release party for Shyne. The incident took place at the Tunnel Night club in Manhattan which has seen more then its share of drama over the years during its Sunday Hip Hop night. The fact that Shyne himself has been involved with incidents of violence including the now infamous night club shooting last December involving Sean Puffy Combs and his girl Jennifer Lopez, makes the conclusion of Hip Hop causes violence even easier to draw for critics.

There is no doubt that most Hip Hop fans see such conclusions
differently. Violence at Hip Hop clubs is attributed to conflicting groups from different parts of town appreciating the same music. There is a likelihood they may show up at the same venue and that's where the drama starts. The solution is to either have more venues or be aware of potential problems ahead of time and take the necessary precautions. In most cities there are usually only one or two Hip Hop clubs which means everyone shows up at the same place. Such is not the place with rock and other music genres where there are an array of night clubs which gives people lots of choices.

More venues mean that crowds from different neighborhoods can spread out and congregate in places that they most feel comfortable. For example, the recent club violence in Seattle was attributed to cats from Central District and West Seattle showing up at the same spot.
Perhaps if there were more Hip Hop nights and night clubs there
wouldn't be a need for everyone to show up at one spot. Because a Hip Hop night occurs so infrequently at night clubs it encourages everyone to come out and roll through with a deep clique when an event takes place. the feeling is if you don't attend the club that night, you will have to wait a full week before you can go again..
There's something about having that sense of urgency to be seen 'in the place to be' that often leads to unnecessary drama. People feel like they have to show out and act a fool. The other thing to keep in mind is that much of the drama at Hip Hop clubs usually occurs outside the club.. Hence that says that more way too many people are showing up then can get in.. It points to Hip Hop's popularity, but it also indicates that certain unique precautions aren't being taken..

We can all note that what I'm saying seems a bit illogical. But if you sit back and think about it.. other music genres have their own unique problems and quirky crowds, yet 'illogical' steps are taken to accommodate them. For example, at a lot of rock clubs, violence or aggressive behavior plays itself out with sanctioned mosh pits. Other venues that attract rowdy drunken types take the necessary precautions to best deal with those patrons. It may mean using plastic cups as opposed to glass or it may mean bolting down chairs..

Lastly I will be the first to admit that some of our own rap stars leave a lot to be desired with their behavior and propensity to somehow be in the middle of crazy situations.. Sooner or later folks will wake up and realize that what they do effects how people perceive Hip Hop and ultimately their ability to make money..
On a side note props to Seattle's Hip Hop community.. On Saturday, October 30th there will be a rally held in downtown to protest Hip Hop being scapegoated. Around 2pm Hip Hop groups and organizations like Darkside Productions, Student Hip Hop Organization of Washington. Jasiri Media Group, Pak Pros and others will be on hand to hold a press conference and rally. They intend to help clear up Hip Hop's often tarnished image and aggressively address the issues at hand.. Things will jump off at 4th Avenue and Pine around 2pm..
This is what Hip Hop needs to do more of.. Step up and protect the culture as well as our respective business interests..

written by Davey D
http://www.daveyd.com

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~


"One day all them bags gon' get in your way..." Erykah

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

Email: Tygereyz67@aol.com
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wbgirl
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Fri Sep-29-00 07:46 AM

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15. "up in support..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

let us know what happens this weekend, 'k?

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218
Chicago 2001...will u be ready?
go here:
http://www.breastcancer3day.org
and here:
http://www.recordkingdom.com

september as ol' school quote month:
"...i'm waiting for the time till i can get to arizona/all my money is spent/on the gotdamn rent/neither party is mine/not the jackass nor the elephant..." (c) chuck d

~~wbg~~
"I pray sometimes to keep my head together,
because you can use prayer however you want.
There are no rules one way or the other."
--Jami Attenberg

http://helpcde.blogspot.com
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Dove
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Sat Sep-30-00 08:52 AM

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17. "Thank you wb"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

I'm off to the rally in about an hour - taking pics too....
I'll let you know
Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~



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Dove
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Sat Sep-30-00 06:13 PM

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18. "TODAY'S RALLY WAS A SUCCESS!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm so happy, excited, relaxed, calmed, hyped - all at the same time - today's events came off without a hitch - headz from every part of the Seattle/Tacoma Hip Hop community showed up, even some folks from Portland! We even recruited a few people off the street - including a group of young Christians who had just had a meeting nearby.
It was a lovely rainy Seattle day - I'd say about 100 or so people showed up, including media from local tv stations and newspapers. The police sat sedately in their vehicles with a few posted up underneath an awning on a nearby building. They never once approached any of us.
There was no drama, no arguing, no trouble at all - it was all about love, positivity, discussion of ideas and expression of frustrations related to recent incidents in the city.
People in attendence included:
Jasiri Media Group, Darkside Productions, Kutfather, The S.H.O.W., Kun Luv, Crazy Pinoy, Pak Pros, Seasick Records & Grafixx, OldDominion & Boom Bap Project, Mecca USA, Mr. Supreme, Prymetyme, Bobby Spoon, Julie Pilot from KUBE, Black Anger, Tribal Music, The Bohemian nightclub, F.T.S., DJ Topspin, 500 Years, and soooooooo many more - it was lovely!!
Okayplayers in attendence were Geologic and broke (both of the S.H.O.W.), brzlngrl and her friend who has no OKP name yet and myself.
We made a vow to get together on a regular basis and to keep this unity solid - for the sake of ourselves, our community and our children. Everyone agreed that our first responsibility is with ourselves personally, then with our community, then in the bigger picture - but that it ALWAYS starts with ourselves and the example we set.
The speakers were all inspirational. This is the first time in my 18 years of being in the club circuit that I have seen anything of this calibur in our city.
Much love to everyone who put so much heart and energy into making this a success. I am grateful.
Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~


"One day all them bags gon' get in your way..." Erykah

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

Email: Tygereyz67@aol.com
Wanna paaaaaage me? Email up to 200 characters: Dove@myairmail.com

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9
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Sun Oct-01-00 02:21 PM

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21. "RE: TODAY'S RALLY WAS A SUCCESS!!!!"
In response to Reply # 18


          

"brzlngrl and her friend who has no OKP name yet"

i've actually had a name longer than brzlngrl

but besides that i agree the whole thing went really well

  

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Dove
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Sun Oct-01-00 05:54 PM

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22. "Well if you introduced yourself as such...."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

I might have known. You don't post much so it's hard to keep track of folks. Sorry.
Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~



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9
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Sun Oct-01-00 07:39 PM

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24. "RE: Well if you introduced yourself as such...."
In response to Reply # 22


          

its all cool...i was more playing with brzlngrl with that comment...but your right i should have introduced as such

  

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Dove
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Mon Oct-02-00 06:31 AM

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25. "hey"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

:7
Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~



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broke
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Sun Oct-01-00 06:10 PM

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23. "RE: TODAY'S RALLY WAS A SUCCESS!!!!"
In response to Reply # 18


          

before calling this event a success lets wait and see the outcome. I ain't with reationary shit, so if the people who signed their names on the list are truly down then we can call yesterdays rally a success...why is it that after all that consciousness we had to go to red robin? haha, why not Shabazz Cafe or some community spot...oh well...My highlight of the day other than Kindu pretty much echoing my sentiments. As well as the guy from F.T.S. expressing what I hate which is the dividing between what is labeled as Gangsta and Undergroup HipHop in seattle. As well as that INCREDIBLY beautiful girl who recited the poem that had me in tears (dead serious) 'I am Che Guevara'. i am gonna make it a mission to take that girl out to lunch a priority right under starting up the Seattle chapter for Zulu Nation. my word...

http://www.raindrophustla.com

  

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Dove
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Mon Oct-02-00 06:34 AM

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26. "cute"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Boy, don't act like you weren't throwin down at Red Robin!!
I agree that lady's poem was lovely - I can't speak Spanish, but she was reciting from her HEART and you could feel that ish for real!
I am anxious to see the outcome of our efforts as well!
Thank you also to all the people who showed up to the Sit & Spin on Sunday with their children, parents AND grandparents - it was a great turnout!

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~



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wbgirl
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Mon Oct-02-00 07:56 AM

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27. "yay!!!!"
In response to Reply # 18


          

i'm glad saturday's events went well...

so what happens now?

~~wbg~~
AIM: wbgirl218
Chicago 2001...will u be ready?
go here:
http://www.breastcancer3day.org
and here:
http://www.recordkingdom.com

october as isabel allende month:
"Knowledge is of little use without wisdom, and there is no wisdom without spirituality."

~~wbg~~
"I pray sometimes to keep my head together,
because you can use prayer however you want.
There are no rules one way or the other."
--Jami Attenberg

http://helpcde.blogspot.com
http://queeneulalia.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/queeneulalia

  

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Dove
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Mon Oct-02-00 08:16 AM

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28. "pictures at www.daveyd.com"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I put a lil post in General about it - Dave actually used my commentary (which wasn't intended to be an article by any means) and used the pics I took from the rally - go check it out!!

http://www.daveyd.com

At this point we are going to meet again within a week or so and discuss meeting with the mayor and/or city council on a local tv show - we've got some good ideas - it's just a matter of meeting up again to implement them. Most of the movement is from within though - we all know we have to start with self first - set an example - and go from there....
Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~


"One day all them bags gon' get in your way..." Erykah

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

Email: Tygereyz67@aol.com
Wanna paaaaaage me? Email up to 200 characters: Dove@myairmail.com

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Dove
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Sun Oct-01-00 09:50 AM

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19. "RALLY MAKES FRONT COVER!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Front page pictures and coverage with the Seattle Times!!! THIS is some good stuff! Davey D and a few local websites will also be doing articles. I've sent pics out to damn near everyone I can think of - if you'd like to see them just email me direct (address below)

Here are the articles:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/SeattleTimes.woa/wa/gotoArticle?zsection_id=268448480&text_only=0&slug=jers01m&document_id=134236349

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/SeattleTimes.woa/wa/gotoArticle?text_only=0&slug=hipp01m&document_id=134236353&zsection_id=268448406

Dove
~Sheepish Lordess of Chaos~


"One day all them bags gon' get in your way..." Erykah

"You can't talk your way out of problems you behave yourself into" ~ S. Covey

Email: Tygereyz67@aol.com
Wanna paaaaaage me? Email up to 200 characters: Dove@myairmail.com

http://UrbLife.com
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brzlngrl
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Sun Oct-01-00 10:20 AM

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20. "i gotta get a paper!!"
In response to Reply # 19


          

this is great!!!! i read the articles...i am glad that i participated in positive, momentous event...i have to go buy me a copy of the paper!!! it was mad cool seeing you, ms. rho....we must do it again.. i have to do my homework, now..

tchau. mucho amor y paz.

oh, and gita is gonna get her pics developed and we can post you rally-style...bullhorn and all...:-P

"revolution is not only won by numbers, but by visionaries, and if artists aren;t visionaries, then we have no business doing what we do."
cherrie moraga

visit..http://www.blumagazine.net


"passion is not friendly. it is arrogant, superbly contemptous of all that is not itself, and, as the very definition of passion implies the impulse to freedom, it has a mighty intimidating power. it contains a challenge. it contains an unspeakable hope." james baldwin

  

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