poor minority communites are severely afflicted with numerous issues. whose fault is it?
who gave us...
crack?
alcohilism?
guns and the propensity to kill other blacks?
suck-ass job choices?
triflin' school systems?

see this...and come on back-> http://www.salon.com/news/col/horo/1999/08/16/naacp/index.html

"whyyyy, all my murderers are heroes!"-isabel sezbusk to mrs. aynsgarth.

*plumage is for avians....*

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

how there's no email address to respond directly to the writer

http://myspace.com/139003080
http://www.last.fm/user/micheleqj/
http://myspace.com/alluswe
http://myspace.com/fermentedspirits
http://www.last.fm/music/Alluswe

At an absolute level there is some personal responsibility issues, but corporations and businesses and governments owned by white americans profit and promote certain activities that would not be tolerated in their own communities.

Is there some general let's kill all the colored people on the planet conspiracy that all whites/western europeans/capitalists are in on? I doubt it. But I can tell you that when there are competing interests, reality always favors the whites who have green. The whites who don't have green and the people of color who do fight for the second spot.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

<<Is there some general let's kill all the colored people on the planet conspiracy that all whites/western europeans/capitalists are in on?>>

*soberly* Yes. There is. According to many African-centered theorists. According to the history of the world if you look at it. You will notice a trend, a trend that always leave people of color at some loss or another. Once white people stopped fighting amongst themselves, they came after the "cultural other". Go check out some Marimba Ani... _Yurugu_.

Q

"Go ahead and bite it; I'm sure you'll be delighted!" - Nina Simone, "Forbidden Fruit"

"Alabama's got me so upset. Tennessee made me lose my rest. And everybody knows about Mississippi GODDAMN!" - Nina Simone (you know the song: sing it!)

"I believe in peace!(Bitch)" - Tori Amos, The Waitress

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

>You will notice a trend,
>a trend that always leave
>people of color at some
>loss or another. Once white
>people stopped fighting amongst themselves,
>they came after the "cultural
>other".

Is that the nature of Western Culture, or an active conspiracy that folks are thinking, let's go get the dark folks?

Nature of the Threat? Is it default for western europeans to want to eliminate no Western Europeans. This seems to be the idea behind the Ice man..

I don't think that's the case.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

Brotha,

I'm telling you to go read, to educate yourself on this. Hell, even white scholars have said the same thing about their own culture (except they didn't apologize)... even the "Ice Man."

Besides, European history bears this out.

Go educate yourself!

Q


"Go ahead and bite it; I'm sure you'll be delighted!" - Nina Simone, "Forbidden Fruit"

"Alabama's got me so upset. Tennessee made me lose my rest. And everybody knows about Mississippi GODDAMN!" - Nina Simone (you know the song: sing it!)

"I believe in peace!(Bitch)" - Tori Amos, The Waitress

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

I'm assuming I

>Brotha,
>
>I'm telling you to go read,
>to educate yourself on this.

Why is it folks can't deal with the topic at hand. I know my history. I know plenty of what white folks have done throughout history, and right now to people of color. That's not what I'm saying. I'm asking for you to clarify yourself beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Are you saying that white folks, in specific and in general, are out to get us? Are you saying that white folks are waging a conscious war against our people?

Please make yourself absolutely clear. Yes or No.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

I'm so sorry, I thought I had answered your question affirmatively.

Obviously, you haven't read or educated yourself enough. If you had, you would have stumbled upon information that would have unvieled European/white cultural behavior and thought to you. Meaning, in case you _don't_ get it, that although Europeans may not be _concious_ of what they are doing, through the rubble and destruction they have left in their wake, it is clear that they are out to conquer and _destroy_ non-European peoples.

This comes out of a desire, for them, to control others -- others as defined as anything outside of their cultural selves.

And as for the attitude you displayed, know this: Keep aiding them in their destruction of our people and see if you, yourself, don't become destroyed.


"Go ahead and bite it; I'm sure you'll be delighted!" - Nina Simone, "Forbidden Fruit"

"Alabama's got me so upset. Tennessee made me lose my rest. And everybody knows about Mississippi GODDAMN!" - Nina Simone (you know the song: sing it!)

"I believe in peace!(Bitch)" - Tori Amos, The Waitress

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

Can you blame people for not being conscious of a conspiracy???

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

Hotep

Yo!!! Why was I about to say the same thing cued? There IS an attack on the ORIGINAL peoples of the world.

"Original, cave man quest for my fire!" -Talib Kweli "Move Somethin"

However I don't think that there was really an argument between you and K_orr. I think what k_orr was saying is that an all-out conspiracy would mean that ALL white people are consciously trying destroy the "other." I would have to agree in that I don't think it is a truly "conscious" thing of the masses but they have an imbedded destructive mechanism that promotes the same aim. Simply put, Western culture is inherently against all things in nature an seeks to destroy them. But the individual does not consciously realize that believing in the Biblical god who is "one god" and a "jealous god" who shall have no other gods before him, is an example of a precursor to dominating and suppressing the beliefs of other people.

I feel the rest of what you were saying but you should have refined your argument a little bit more. YES, white people the propagators of western culture are to blame for the general state of the world BUT to the average bootlicker this statement would sound like a "victim" mentality (as they have been trained to think through the rhetorical ethic of the Western (asili)ethos). It sounds like you are not taking responsiblity for your own actions. However, everyone must realize that one has to NAME the problem before it can be solved. As the ancients(Africans) preached, "if something has no name then it doesn't exist." Now that the WESTERN/EUROPEAN gross mentality has been called out and identified, we can now commence to rid it of ourselves. WE AS A PEOPLE continue the cycle BECAUSE WE SUCCUMB TO A WESTERN MINDSET. DESTROY THE MINDSET, DESTROY THE PROBLEM. This is easier said than done. This mindset or conceptual system DEFINES the world for many of us so to DESTROY IT would be to DESTROY US. This is the problem that I realize everyday when bootlickers try to justify and protect all symbols of the Western mind (American culture/government, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, MONEY GREEN$$$$$$$$$,etc).

Shaun G here are some books:
Yurugu by Marimba Ani (MUST READ but very difficult for the layperson)
African Centered PSychology in an American Context by Kobi Kambon
(very good. Simple and concise yet comprehensive)
Introduction to Optimal PSychology by Linda Meyers (relatively easy but no as thorough as the others)

Peace
Solarus

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

Thanks for the booklist.

Shaun G.

Solarus,

Thanks. Thanks for providing him with a reading list and stepping up once I stepped out. But the reasons why I stepped out is because I recognized the rhetoric and it pained me because it pains me when people of color say things like that against their people. So, thank you.

Also, I agree with you. It isn't "concious". However, I think Marimba makes it clear that whether it is concious or not, we have to look at it as if it is concious because looking at it as if "they don't know better" often ends up in our oppression and/or death.

I garnered this from the chapter where she speaks about European cultural behavior towards others.

However, as I said, you have a point. Because it stems from the early construction of their asili and the constructs that went into the formation of their utamaroho (seeking power and control)and utamawazo (cognitive thinking structures), through the institutions that express them both... etc, etc, etc.

But there is more that goes into this. If I automatically "sound" like a "victim" then why was I not being asked if that was what I was doing instead of being attacked by rhetoric that was _not_ that of an African-centered perspective? What I am speaking of here is how I -detached- myself early because I felt I was being attacked and while I fight against European cultural thought and behavior, seek to erase it from my mind and body, hope to show people the strength and power of an African-centered prespective that put us at the center of the story instead of just the "victims", I _refuse_ to fight my own people. Period. I refuse to. I love all of you. All of you reading this and all of you who don't. I love you and I respect you in such a way that I am not going to fight with you nor am I going to defend myself in anyway that may make me become "aggressive" and "belligerant".

Please understand.

Q



"Go ahead and bite it; I'm sure you'll be delighted!" - Nina Simone, "Forbidden Fruit"

"Alabama's got me so upset. Tennessee made me lose my rest. And everybody knows about Mississippi GODDAMN!" - Nina Simone (you know the song: sing it!)

"I believe in peace!(Bitch)" - Tori Amos, The Waitress

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

David Horowitz is an idiot. Every few weeks he writes an article similar to this one, blaming liberals, Blacks and other minorities for creating our own problems.

But frighteningly enough I agree with him to a certain extent.

White people aren't making us shoot each other over overpriced material objects.

White people aren't making us idolize thugs (not that Whites don't too, but they have enough resources to rise above that
s*&t).

White people aren't making us not teach our children to read and learn math before we even get to school.

White people aren't making us decide to have babies when we can't take care of our own damn selves.

White people aren't tackling Black people and shoving crack pipes in their mouths or sticking us with heroin needles.

I'm not saying that Whites are innocent, because I could type a list of plenty of things that actually are their fault, but we
aren't lemmings wandering around without self control either.

Shaun G.

>White people aren't making us shoot
>each other over overpriced material
>objects.

They of course provide the guns, the material objects, and no reasonable way to get them for those people who shoot themselves over it.

>White people aren't making us idolize
>thugs (not that Whites don't
>too, but they have enough
>resources to rise above that
>s*&t).

Whites didn't fund and profit from Blaxploitation movies, the Hood Movies, gangsta rap, as well as folks like Ice Berg slim. Right? It was black folks who did these things, and we are the main ones responsible for perpetuating these images on TV (of which we own no stations, networks, or studios), music, and print?

>White people aren't making us not
>teach our children to read
>and learn math before we
>even get to school.

Although most whites wait till their kids are in K, pre K, and 1st grade to do so. Theones who have power in this area have great public schools, or even better private schools.

>White people aren't making us decide
>to have babies when we
>can't take care of our
>own damn selves.

Again, it's not whether we can make the choice but do we have a social network to resolve those issues. For the white middle class teenage girl in the same situation, she has a myriad of choices some of which can be covered by insurance. Even middle class blacks don't have those kind of cultural/social/financial capital to do the same.

>White people aren't tackling Black people
>and shoving crack pipes in
>their mouths or sticking us
>with heroin needles.

True. But white advertisers and culture men have us convinced that we always need to feel good, and feel good about ourselves.

>I'm not saying that Whites are
>innocent, because I could type
>a list of plenty of
>things that actually are their
>fault, but we
>aren't lemmings wandering around without self
>control either.

I feel you. I think 2 out of 3 African Americans are considered middle or upper class. We as a people make up the 9th largest economy in the world. We can do things, if we could only do them together.
White Americans don't have that kind of burden. Even when they don't work together, they work together to maintain the environment where there values and mores rule.

We as individual african americans must be responsible for ourselves, no matter who is causing calamity in our community.

Some basic stuff to do
- get an education that makes money - we have enough full time poets, what we need is Af. Am employers who can decide whether or not you will fit into the corporate culture.

- own a business

- dont' keep up with joneses - while Mr. Jones just bought a new mercedes, realize how much money he is losing in terms of investment power. Delayed gratification is the rule.

- own dont' rent - in the long run owning a house is cheaper than paying rent

- invest early - get an IRA and contribute the max every year. Do the same for your children, or future children

- don't lay with anyone that you don't want children from - easier said than done, but always bring some protection and spermicide. (brothas and sistas)

- support black business - most businesses fail within their 1st year. But As Af Ams we have something called ethnic loyalty that we can employ. Hong Kong supermarket in Houston is owned by some Chinese folks who understood that Asian folks wanted the freshest produce possible, in addition to other ethnic delicacies. We must develop that kind of loyalty, or understanding of our own market.

There are a whole bunch of these things that all of us can employ on a daily basis, and a few of us with means/education can do also.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>
>>White people aren't making us shoot
>>each other over overpriced material
>>objects.
>
>They of course provide the guns,
>the material objects, and no
>reasonable way to get them
>for those people who shoot
>themselves over it.
>

True, but you still have to choose to get the gun, and choose to have the mindset that you have to shoot somebody to get that object. As for the reasonable way to get them, that would be
on the blame whitey list - more jobs with livable wages.


>
>>White people aren't making us not
>>teach our children to read
>>and learn math before we
>>even get to school.
>
>Although most whites wait till their
>kids are in K, pre
>K, and 1st grade to
>do so. Theones who
>have power in this area
>have great public schools, or
>even better private schools.
>
I'm not denying this but Whites aren't forcing us to sit our
children down in front of the tv umpteen hours a day instead of
reading to them. Although libraries aren't everywhere there are still enough out there that one can get there hands on some books. My parents were limited financially but they took me to the library and read books to me so I already knew how to read before I started kindergarden.

It can be done and done cheap.


>>White people aren't tackling Black people
>>and shoving crack pipes in
>>their mouths or sticking us
>>with heroin needles.
>
>True. But white advertisers and
>culture men have us convinced
>that we always need to
>feel good, and feel good
>about ourselves.
>

There's a difference between feeling good and getting hooked
on the pipe. If you got to feel good stick to weed.

>>I'm not saying that Whites are
>>innocent, because I could type
>>a list of plenty of
>>things that actually are their
>>fault, but we
>>aren't lemmings wandering around without self
>>control either.
>
>I feel you. I think
>2 out of 3 African
>Americans are considered middle or
>upper class.

Two out of three? Is this really true? What income is considered middle class? That seems a little off to me.

We as
>a people make up the
>9th largest economy in the
>world. We can do
>things, if we could only
>do them together.
>White Americans don't have that kind
>of burden. Even when they
>don't work together, they work
>together to maintain the environment
>where there values and mores
>rule.
>
>We as individual african americans must
>be responsible for ourselves, no
>matter who is causing calamity
>in our community.
>
>Some basic stuff to do
>- get an education that makes
>money - we have enough
>full time poets, what we
>need is Af. Am employers
>who can decide whether or
>not you will fit into
>the corporate culture.
>
>- own a business
>
>- dont' keep up with joneses
>- while Mr. Jones just
>bought a new mercedes, realize
>how much money he is
>losing in terms of investment
>power. Delayed gratification is
>the rule.
>
>- own dont' rent - in
>the long run owning a
>house is cheaper than paying
>rent
>
>- invest early - get an
>IRA and contribute the max
>every year. Do the
>same for your children, or
>future children
>
>- don't lay with anyone that
>you don't want children from
>- easier said than done,
>but always bring some protection
>and spermicide. (brothas and sistas)
>
>
>- support black business - most
>businesses fail within their 1st
>year. But As Af
>Ams we have something called
>ethnic loyalty that we can
>employ. Hong Kong supermarket
>in Houston is owned by
>some Chinese folks who understood
>that Asian folks wanted the
>freshest produce possible, in addition
>to other ethnic delicacies. We
>must develop that kind of
>loyalty, or understanding of our
>own market.
>
>There are a whole bunch of
>these things that all of
>us can employ on a
>daily basis, and a few
>of us with means/education can
>do also.
>
>peace
>k. orr


Words to live by...

Shaun G.

> True, but you still have
>to choose to get the
>gun, and choose to have
>the mindset that you have
>to shoot somebody to get
>that object.

How much of what you do each day is your decision, or is it decided for you? Ie how free are you really? But I agree with your previous post, I'm just trying to throw in some of the reasoning I've heard before. At the very least, the power in this country sets the stage and teaches the roles.

> I'm not denying this
>but Whites aren't forcing us
>to sit our
>children down in front of the
>tv umpteen hours a day
>instead of
>reading to them.

But how many of us have that kind of time to read to our children? How many of us know what our children should be learning when they go to they schools? Even if we just look at "they" curriculum, how do we as parents know whether or not Jamal can diagram a sentence, and what real recourse do we have if Jamal can't, but Salima can? Parent involvement in a child's education is a major part of creating better students (citizens), but when the parents themselves aren't educated about education then you have problems. Many well to do African Americans are not familiar with the ins and outs of education system, I have a feeling the #'s get worse as you reduce income.

Although libraries
>aren't everywhere there are still
>enough out there that one
>can get there hands on
>some books. My parents
>were limited financially but they
>took me to the library
>and read books to me
>so I already knew how
>to read before I started
>kindergarden.

You are quite lucky. My mother is a teacher, and she taught me that many children don't have the inside look at education that I would get.

>It can be done and done
>cheap.

Financial considerations are just one aspect of education.

> There's a difference between feeling
>good and getting hooked
>on the pipe. If you
>got to feel good stick
>to weed.

I think once you fall into the trap of drinking alcohol, smoking weed, et cetera, it just becomes a matter of degree. Don't mean to offend any of you cats who indulge but still handle business. We all have vices.

>>I feel you. I think
>>2 out of 3 African
>>Americans are considered middle or
>>upper class.
>
> Two out of three? Is
>this really true? What
>income is considered middle class?
> That seems a little
>off to me.

As in too high? That's a real shame, cause I think it's closer to 4 out of 5 for white americans. I'll see what I can find though.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

>Some basic stuff to do
>- get an education that makes
>money - we have enough
>full time poets, what we
>need is Af. Am employers
>who can decide whether or
>not you will fit into
>the corporate culture.
>
>- own a business
>
>- dont' keep up with joneses
>- while Mr. Jones just
>bought a new mercedes, realize
>how much money he is
>losing in terms of investment
>power. Delayed gratification is
>the rule.
>
>- own dont' rent - in
>the long run owning a
>house is cheaper than paying
>rent
>
>- invest early - get an
>IRA and contribute the max
>every year. Do the
>same for your children, or
>future children
>
>- don't lay with anyone that
>you don't want children from
>- easier said than done,
>but always bring some protection
>and spermicide. (brothas and sistas)
>
>
>- support black business - most
>businesses fail within their 1st
>year. But As Af
>Ams we have something called
>ethnic loyalty that we can
>employ. Hong Kong supermarket
>in Houston is owned by
>some Chinese folks who understood
>that Asian folks wanted the
>freshest produce possible, in addition
>to other ethnic delicacies. We
>must develop that kind of
>loyalty, or understanding of our
>own market.
>
>There are a whole bunch of
>these things that all of
>us can employ on a
>daily basis, and a few
>of us with means/education can
>do also.
>
>peace
>k. orr

these simple things, when done individually, affect a positive collective progression from second class citizenship to economic (and thus political) power.


Thanks for reading. I love you.

In Rotation:
Sade - Lovers Rock
OutKast - Stankonia
Tool - Aenema
Al Green - Lets Stay Together
Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation Of Millions
Earth Wind & Fire - The Eternal Dance

"only a bitchass gives a fuck what other people listen to, how they talk, what they wear, who they date or who they fuck. worry about the real issues like racial profiling, police brutality, rockefeller drug laws, george w bush's presidency, 60 million americans without health care, crime control as industry and the incarceration of non-violent criminals, not about some white kid buying nelly albums and fubu. shit, at least those kids are supporting black businesses, not like you napstered-out suburban-bred psuedo-revolutionaries. losers." - Guinness

don't be fkn evil.

Brotha (or Sista) I wanted to led you back on the path.


<<White people aren't making us shoot each other over overpriced material objects.>>

In fact, they are. Is it our fault that we, people oppressed and taken away from our cultural selves, the land of our ancestors, out of our values, that we are adopting their's in such horrible manners? White people, in colonizing us, in bringing us to this culture, did something else to us: made us lose touch with who we are -- as a people -- and adopt their cultural standards. One of their cultural standards is being materialistic and object-oriented.

<<White people aren't making us idolize thugs (not that Whites don't too, but they have enough resources to rise above that
s*&t).. >>

No, they aren't making us idolize thugs, however, thugs are both warriors and bastards in the scheme of things. They give many of our youth _back_ something to be proud of -- themselves. However, they also help perpetuate this materialistic image. But see, we should tell our children that these warriors, even them, are "controlled" in some manner or another. If we were wiser about what we were seeing, we'd be able to see the white man behind it (and them). The whites who are telling these young brothers that the way to "overcome" their race and sense of self is through the accumulation of "things." But, at the same time, who else would say the things we have been taught _not_ to say? White people wouldn't understand this two-fold mindset, but it is part of our cultural selves to understand both sides of these kinds of things and allow them to rest together, in peace (twinness).


<<White people aren't making us not teach our children to read and learn math before we even get to school.>>

Yeah, however, how can we have time to teach our children to read and learn math before they get to school when we are too busy trying to teach our children about racism, self-respect, sense of community, etc.? Now, my parents taught me to read before I went to school... but then I was talking before I was one and a half. But they could do that because we 1) lived in the South and 2) lived in a predominately Black small town. But this is a luxury.

White people have the _privilege_ of not having to worry about teaching their kids all the things we have to teach our kids in order to simply _survive_ on a phyical, emotional, spiritual, psychic, mental level. Those five years, I think, are well spent. Make a world where we, Black people/people of color, don't have to contend with racism and its effects, and I will show you a world where our children show everyone exactly how brilliant each and every single one of them are... besides, there are more than one way to be "prepared" for school.

<<White people aren't making us decide to have babies when we can't take care of our own damn selves.>>

No, but white people are making us demonize our own people because they are not living up to "white" standards.

1) The need for family is and always have been strong within our culture.

2) Are we to be blamed because we recognize the spiritual element embedded within sex and are not scared of it, the way white people are?


<<White people aren't tackling Black people and shoving crack pipes in their mouths or sticking us with heroin needles.>>

They aren't? The last time I looked and listened, it seemed that taking drugs was a way through which a person could _escape_ what has been defined, what we have come to know as "reality" in this country. It is a nightmare. Shit, sometimes, when I am feeling low, I wanna go out there and stick some crack pipes in my mouth and shove some heroin in _my_ veins! What's the difference? I remember that fighting is why I am here and I struggle to fight against the system that puts me down. Well, that is a kind of strength that is obviously outside of myself, that comes from my ancestors. However, I don't feel special because of it.

The minute Black people can't emphathize with those in our communities on drugs is the minute that white people won in making sure to separate us from our own.

Some people can't fight on the level we all have to fight on day in and day out. Some don't. You leave out alcohol, herb, cigarette smoke... sex (taken outside of its spiritual connections) as other ways in which Black people compensate for the psychic battle we fight _every_ day. But this stems from an European mindset that values some addictions over other ones... an European mindset that is pressed upon our people and which makes us separate from ourselves and our community -- our people.



So, yes, white people are to blame. They should have just kept their asses out of Africa and left us where we were. But they didn't so... this.

Let's overcome our internalized oppression and inferiority and point to the real culprit. We aren't to blame. Not one of us. To discuss whether they are _physically_ "doing" stuff to us is just rhetorical bullshit -- because more goes into someone taking drugs, etc, than the simple act of _doing_ it.

Yes, there is the issue of responsibility, of taken some for ourselves. But, our's is a people that is enslaved, for all intents and purposes. The responsiblity we have is to realize this and to fight against it -- yes, add another battle. But also, to attend to those who have been harmed by the battle -- to offer compassion to them and understanding and use them as the reasons for which we are fighting.

Q



"Go ahead and bite it; I'm sure you'll be delighted!" - Nina Simone, "Forbidden Fruit"

"Alabama's got me so upset. Tennessee made me lose my rest. And everybody knows about Mississippi GODDAMN!" - Nina Simone (you know the song: sing it!)

"I believe in peace!(Bitch)" - Tori Amos, The Waitress

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

>Brotha (or Sista) I wanted to
>led you back on the
>path.
>
It's Brotha (not that it's really important in this discussion). I'm don't need to be led on the path, I just think
the car we're driving in needs a tune up.

>
><<White people aren't making us shoot each other over overpriced material objects.>>
>
>In fact, they are.

This racist country contributes to the mindset gives us the excuse to fot the need to shoot somebody, but picking up a gun and shooting someone for a pair of Jordan's is AN INDIVIDUAL DECISION. And when you kill someone for material objects I think they should throw you under the jail.

> Is it
>our fault that we, people
>oppressed and taken away from
>our cultural selves, the land
>of our ancestors, out of
>our values, that we are
>adopting their's in such horrible
>manners? White people, in colonizing
>us, in bringing us to
>this culture, did something else
>to us: made us lose
>touch with who we are
>-- as a people --
>and adopt their cultural standards.
>One of their cultural standards
>is being materialistic and object-oriented.
>
>
It's not our fault, but is it the fault of the person killed for their jacket that they somehow got the money to buy it?
I'm sorry if we as Black people are so easily brainwashed, why our we even having this conversation? Shouldn't we all be dead by now. Everybody in the hood isn't shooting everybody else up.


>
><<White people aren't making us not teach our children to read and learn math before we even get to school.>>
>
>Yeah, however, how can we have
>time to teach our children
>to read and learn math
>before they get to school
>when we are too busy
>trying to teach our children
>about racism, self-respect, sense of
>community, etc.?

Why can't you do both at the same time (at least with reading)?
There are books that explain that. Sitting down with your children and having a conversation with them instead of sitting them in front of the TV can do that. Why do those things interfere with turning off the TV and reading to your children before they go to bed? I understand your point but I don't agree with it a all. It's an excuse.


Now, my parents
>taught me to read before
>I went to school... but
>then I was talking before
>I was one and a
>half. But they could do
>that because we 1) lived
>in the South and 2)
>lived in a predominately Black
>small town. But this is
>a luxury.
>
Why is that a luxury? Don't a large number of Blacks live in the South or live in predominately Black neighborhoods? I grew up in East Orange, NJ a northern predominately Black neighborhood. Where was the luxury there?


>White people have the _privilege_ of
>not having to worry about
>teaching their kids all the
>things we have to teach
>our kids in order to
>simply _survive_ on a phyical,
>emotional, spiritual, psychic, mental level.
>Those five years, I think,
>are well spent. Make a
>world where we, Black people/people
>of color, don't have to
>contend with racism and its
>effects, and I will show
>you a world where our
>children show everyone exactly how
>brilliant each and every single
>one of them are... besides,
>there are more than one
>way to be "prepared" for
>school.

Racism is not going away anytime soon, so not putting out 150% to overcome that means we're doomed to failure. I've never said things are easy and snapping our fingers are going to make things better, but racism isn't going away so we have to drop that excuse (legitimate(sp?) as it is) and fight against it.

>
><<White people aren't making us decide to have babies when we can't take care of our own damn selves.>>
>
>No, but white people are making
>us demonize our own people
>because they are not living
>up to "white" standards.
>
>1) The need for family is
>and always have been strong
>within our culture.
>
The need for family is find if you have the means to support it. If you don't why are you having babies? If you can't support yourself you really shouldn't be having kids. Why make them suffer because of the selfish idea of "I want to be loved."

>2) Are we to be blamed
>because we recognize the spiritual
>element embedded within sex and
>are not scared of it,
>the way white people are?
>
What does having sex have to do with having kids you can't take care of? You can have all the sex you want and use protection. I really think you're reaching here.

>
>
><<White people aren't tackling Black people and shoving crack pipes in their mouths or sticking us with heroin needles.>>
>
>They aren't? The last time I
>looked and listened, it seemed
>that taking drugs was a
>way through which a person
>could _escape_ what has been
>defined, what we have come
>to know as "reality" in
>this country.

But drugs like heroin and crack just add to your problems not relieve them. Like I said in a previous post, if you want to use
drugs as an escape, stick to weed. Anything else and you're going to regret it.


It is a
>nightmare. Shit, sometimes, when I
>am feeling low, I wanna
>go out there and stick
>some crack pipes in my
>mouth and shove some heroin
>in _my_ veins!

There's nothing wrong with being stressed and needing some release, but honestly, drugs like crack and heroin aren't going to help you. Besides, what is it that makes you not actually do it?

What's the
>difference? I remember that fighting
>is why I am here
>and I struggle to fight
>against the system that puts
>me down. Well, that is
>a kind of strength that
>is obviously outside of myself,
>that comes from my ancestors.
>However, I don't feel special
>because of it.
>

This is the thing. Whenever I or others express an opinion like this I get the "who do you think you are", or "why do you think you're so special". I don't think I'm special. I just think that sometimes we use the "racism excuse" when we haven't put out 100% to solve our own problems. There are plenty of problems out there that we really don't have the strength or resources to solve, like getting loans from banks. But some problems we can cut down (not necessarily eliminate) without the White man's help or despite his harm.


I have to go to work so I might write a part II reply to this later.

Peace,

Shaun G.

Forgive the typos, I'm in a hurry.

Shaun G.

I am sorry that, in your haste to be an "individual" you forgot you were part of a community.

Everything you said, all of your views, are consistant to and with a cultural asili that is not your own. In other words, you sound more white than white people explaining why them niggers are so primitive and bent on destruction and should be treated the way they are treated.

You don't have to respond if you don't want to, I'm sure you will anyway, but I don't have the energy to fight against my brothas who have lost their way.

And that's that for me.

Q


"Go ahead and bite it; I'm sure you'll be delighted!" - Nina Simone, "Forbidden Fruit"

"Alabama's got me so upset. Tennessee made me lose my rest. And everybody knows about Mississippi GODDAMN!" - Nina Simone (you know the song: sing it!)

"I believe in peace!(Bitch)" - Tori Amos, The Waitress

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

If you were really as enlightened as you think you are you would do more than spout comments like "you're not educated, read" or " you're brainwashed you sound like a white man".

If we should read, drop some titles and authors.

If I'm being brainwashed then tell me why, don't stoop to the "I'm too tired" BS.

I have a whitey non-community mindset, but you're keeping your so-called "Black" knowledge to yourself.

Who's really the selfish individual here?

Shaun G.

how much responsibility must we take for ourselves. like shaun, i agree to a certain extent with this hoe horowitz.

"whyyyy, all my murderers are heroes!"-isabel sezbusk to mrs. aynsgarth.

*plumage is for avians....*

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

what if I learned to work your beat
fuck with you in the ways that you fuck with me
& underline all your downfalls for ya
catch you fuckin up and bring the pound down on ya
infect your neighbbourhood with this drug called 'hate'
issue out your income and control y'all fate
provide you motherfckers with the shit that looks cool
& price it out of range to keep your ass out of school
you don't work you don't eat you don't eat you don't sleep
& then I got your ass up on these motherfuckin streets
poisoning your own breed, turning you from Jesus
get you out your faith and hit your ass with diseases
and now you can't reproduce, there goes your children
don't worry about you dying slow I'm a get to killin
and shoot up your motherfuckin dreams from the jump
and hold you in the penitentiary like a punk
where you can't do shit unless a motherfcker tell ya
you ain't a motherfuckin man, nigga, you a failure
you wonder why I hate ya and I paint this picture?
cause the government is fcked up and I ain't that nigga
so you can point the finger at the motherfuckin press
cause they be feeding me with all the shit that I address
it ain't my motherfuckin fault niggas ain't learnin
we in too deep and ain't no returnin..
______________________________________

seize your time! - marley/wailers

let's bail to a place called melodica where rhythm is a
way of life and when I'm lead home I'm a sing like a harp - giftofgab/blackalicious

>>who gave us...
>crack?

Shit I live in Crack Central, yet I have never tried crack or any other drugs. I've seen what drug use can do to you at a young age. I lived with folks ODing , sticking needles in their necks, fighting over drugs , having their children live in substandard housing , not enough food to eat, no real livelihood and decided that drugs aren't for me. So while the drugs are there it is entirely up to you to take them.

>alcohilism?

Same as with the drugs, it's there but you don't have to take it.

>guns and the propensity to kill
>other blacks?

We are bringing in the guns and we are killing each other. Monday a young black man shot and killed another black man because he hit his car!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some of us don't value are own lives let alone another humans.

>suck-ass job choices?

Suck ass job choices . In the Philadelphia area manufacturing jobs go unfilled because folks don't have enough education. ( Most of these jobs only require a ged or high school diploma)
>triflin' school systems?

Us again. We don't participate in Home & School Association. We send are children to white schools , causing the funding set aside for our children to go a white school. There was a parent meet and greet at my son's school recently, they held it in the evening and only a handful of parents showed up.



I'm sorry but a lot of this shit is our own fault. Once we stop being "victims" we can achieve anything . If we keep the victim mentality we will never get ahead. Yes racism is a factor in a lot of our lives, but we are letting them win by crying about it and not changing.

Shit happens

the 'system' facilitates the damage, but we keep the cycles goin.

"whyyyy, all my murderers are heroes!"-isabel sezbusk to mrs. aynsgarth.

*plumage is for avians....*

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

definitely.
Though the systems that we live in put pressure on us, ultimately it's our own decision...with VERY few exceptions (like children born to drug addicted mothers).
http://www.funkknots.com
http://www.boondocks.net
http://www.cartoonista.com
http://www.pocho.com

"You might as well pay attention/ you can't afford free speech" -George Clinton

"People need to stop saying that there is one way to be--and then the issue will disappear." Ntozake Shange-interview in _Mother_ _Jones_

All human beings are ugly.

..many addicts, alcoholics and murderers are extremely intelligent, which somehow makes no sense - but it relates back to cents, it's the structure of the whole system.
______________________________________

seize your time! - marley/wailers

let's bail to a place called melodica where rhythm is a
way of life and when I'm lead home I'm a sing like a harp - giftofgab/blackalicious

between insanity and brilliance.

"whyyyy, all my murderers are heroes!"-isabel sezbusk to mrs. aynsgarth.

*plumage is for avians....*

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

>between insanity and brilliance.

..one's the unbearable burden of the other. this whole thread makes me think of when life becomes a burden in itself, one that you're shook/unable to just shake off for whatever reason, so you turn to other things to alleviate/forget that pressure.
______________________________________

seize your time! - marley/wailers

under your nose yet over your head - dres/blacksheep

Society as a whole is to blame for the economic and racial disparities that exist. We, as a black community have not done enough to educate our children, sometimes even ourselves to the harsh world that exists only 40 years after segregation. While I am aware of the "governmental assistance" our communities have had with the placement of liquor stores predominantly in the black inner city. It saddens me to think that we continue to blame the 'white man' for our struggle. We must learn to accept a certain level of responsibility and to not give society what it wants. Is it a coincidence that we continue to patronize their liquor stores? That is money being spent in the cause to destroy our heritage. That is money that should be used to improve our educational system. Accept individual responsibility-change your life and the community around you.
-r

"Watch them all stand in line..."-D'Angelo

Various opinions and theories come about when asking this. Some will say "its the white man's fault", "the government is behind it all, its a conspiracy". Or I have even heard, I think I can quote 2pac to speak for these some, but they say," ain't nothin going to change until you all cleanup the mess ya'll made" (saying "you all" meaning the people before our times during civil rights times and years.)

For awhile I felt the same way to. Don't get me wrong, please don't get me wrong. I truly deeply love the fact that my grandparents and greatgrand parents fought for our rights. As well anyone's grandparents or whom ever. But, at the same time I use to think that we sold our self cheap and settle for on half of what we deserved. I mean we got rights, but they took everything else. Because back then we had our own banks, our own stores,our own homes, and a few other things as well. But its like when we fought for our rights they took everything we worked for. So for awhile yes I believed that. But then, to myself I really stopped pointing the finger at whose fault it may be. Because while doing that I wasn't doing anything.

SO I believe its no ones fault but the ones who continue to let things be and not do anything about it.

"the king is back..."