I hear quite a few "horror stories about church, and things that go on in church, these days. I haven't attended a church in about 4 years. The last church that I attended, I found out that it was a cult!!! I stay at home and pray now. My cousin and his wife used to attend church three times a week, and he ended up leaving her for a woman that was in the church that they were attending!!!...Now, they are divorced!!! Well, so much for the saying, "A family that prays together, stay together"!!!

I just heard a horrible story, today, about a guy that was engaged to a lady in church. He said that he would go to his pastor, for consilation and healing....Come to find out!!!...The pastor was dating his fiance!!! He is torn apart!!!

It's scary to me!!! There was a time, when church was the one sacred place to go. Church was a place of worship and you could really depend upon fellow members for help and support...In these days and times...I wonder???...is it really worth it???

$$$$$$$QUOTES$$$$$$$

November is..."Jive Turkey" month!!!

Though you may not drive, a great big Cadillac.
Gangsta whitewalls, t.v. antenna, in the back.
You may not have, a car at all,
Just remember, brothers and sisters,
you can still stand tall.
Just be thankful, for what you got,
Though you may not drive a great big Cadillac,
Diamonds in the back, sunroof top,
Diggin' the scene,
with a gangsta lean, oooh-hooo!!

"Yeah Mon!!!

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

"Kinda hard to be a spiritual being when shit is shaking what you believe in"


For some it is, for others it isn't. YOU decide!!!!!


little................................

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

I have found to be my safest place of worship...Like I said, I have been out of the church for 4 years....I turn on the christian channel, read my bible and pray....I don't have to worry about any deceit...Everything is fine!! :-):-)!!!

$$$$$$$QUOTES$$$$$$$

November is..."Jive Turkey" month!!!

Though you may not drive, a great big Cadillac.
Gangsta whitewalls, t.v. antenna, in the back.
You may not have, a car at all,
Just remember, brothers and sisters,
you can still stand tall.
Just be thankful, for what you got,
Though you may not drive a great big Cadillac,
Diamonds in the back, sunroof top,
Diggin' the scene,
with a gangsta lean, oooh-hooo!!

"Yeah Mon!!!

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

i feel like you should have your relationship with the MOST HIGHT
the care you need would come too you.########QUOTE########
DONT OVER LOOK THE LOAF FOR A FEW CEUMBS

There are good people and bad people in it. Also there are good churches and bad churches. I was once involved in a group, I think they call themselves the Internation Church of Christ now, they ruined me for a few years, but if you are earnest in your belief about GOD then the truth will always shine through. Ultimately your faith is your own, and when GOD asks you if you believe in him he is not going to ask you what church you went to. The true believers are the church. Whereever they may be.
oeace,
steve

"DAMN this eclectic kid is killing me!!!!!!!!!!"-me(during my eclectic vs bananaman battle)
"I once crushed Bananaman in a keystyle battle on OkayPlayer.com. Months later, I met him in person and he demolished me to the point where I could say nothing."-eclectic
http://www.savehiphop.com - what you didn't know???
http://www.vanvader.com - You have no idea. HE'S COMING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Made me sort of leary about being a follower, too!!!...People have to be careful!!!

$$$$$$$QUOTES$$$$$$$

November is..."Jive Turkey" month!!!

Though you may not drive, a great big Cadillac.
Gangsta whitewalls, t.v. antenna, in the back.
You may not have, a car at all,
Just remember, brothers and sisters,
you can still stand tall.
Just be thankful, for what you got,
Though you may not drive a great big Cadillac,
Diamonds in the back, sunroof top,
Diggin' the scene,
with a gangsta lean, oooh-hooo!!

"Yeah Mon!!!

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

>I was once involved in a group, I think they call themselves the Internation Church of Christ now, they ruined me for a few years, but if you are earnest in your belief about GOD then the truth will always shine through.<

Church does serve an important purpose, such as fellowship, but too often the bad outweighs the good. Spirituality is the key not religion (church).

I have a buddy who is a member of the International Church of Christ (ICOC). We fell out b/c he couldn't accept the fact that I did not want to attend his church. I did some research into this church & found out that it calls for members to be somewhat fanatical in recruiting. If anyone has information on this church - good, bad or indifferent, please share, b/c I'm curious about what my man has gotten himself into.

.peace.

>Church does serve an important purpose,
>such as fellowship, but too
>often the bad outweighs the
>good. Spirituality is the
>key not religion (church).

I agree.

>I have a buddy who is
>a member of the International
>Church of Christ (ICOC).
>We fell out b/c he
>couldn't accept the fact that
>I did not want to
>attend his church. I
>did some research into this
>church & found out that
>it calls for members to
>be somewhat fanatical in recruiting.
> If anyone has information
>on this church - good,
>bad or indifferent, please share,
>b/c I'm curious about what
>my man has gotten himself
>into.

I was a part of this church for a few months. Your research is correct. A major focus of the church is recruiting. You feel guilty every time you meet someone and don't invite them to church. The church is very controlling. One of the factors that made me wake up and leave the church (beside the fact that my family was pulling their hair out to get through to me) was that they encouraged me to not attend church with my family when I went home to visit, but to find a local branch of the church.

I won't call the church a cult, because that word can mean many things (hell, this site could be considered a cult). I don't think the church is headed for anything tragic, like Waco; but I do think the members are brainwashed. The church has a very fundamentalist and literal interpretation of the Bible. In my opinion, this is not spiritually healthy, and is borderline dangerous in a KKK/Nazi sense of the word. They literally taught that everyone outside of the church (including other Christians) is going to hell...had me thinking my recently deceased grandmother went to hell.

Needless to say, this church put me through some things; but I am glad I went through it. After I got out of the church, I went through a period of not believing in God at all, because I thought if this church was wrong, they must all be wrong. All the negatives they planted in my brain about various religions are still there, and I'm glad. I now experience things on a more spiritual level than ever before. My connection to the energy we call God is stronger than ever and continues to improve. I now understand that many concepts in the Bible, such as heaven and hell, were not to be taken literally. I now am able to appreciate the good aspects of all religions, and I feel free to apply any of their teachings to my life. The ICOC played a part in me getting to that point, so I can't condemn them.

I said all of that to ease your mind about your friend and to give you some advice on how to handle the situation. First of all, when he goes to people at his church and tells them about his situation with you, they will tell him to just live his life in such a way that he'll become a "beacon of light" for you. So when you see how blessed his life is, you'll want a piece of it. My advice is for you to do the same thing. If you're spiritually doing just as well as or better than he is, you may be his "light". Focus internally on your spirituality. You will be better off. Right now, he is getting his power from external sources, and is becoming addicted to evangelism. External power is a figment of the imagination.

Most importantly, don't worry about him. Have faith.

"Life's a b***h, then you die; but for now, Life, close your eyes and feel this d**k." - Jay-Z

"I think we may be integrating into a burning house...We'll have to become the firemen." - Martin Luther King, Jr. (speaking to Harry Belafonte)

Thank you. That was lovely. Your thoughtfulness, balance and insight are indeed a beacon of light.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

I, quite often, have had the same sentiments about your posts.

"Life's a b***h, then you die; but for now, Life, close your eyes and feel this d**k." - Jay-Z

"I think we may be integrating into a burning house...We'll have to become the firemen." - Martin Luther King, Jr. (speaking to Harry Belafonte)

> One of the factors
>that made me wake up
>and leave the church (beside
>the fact that my family
>was pulling their hair out
>to get through to me)
>was that they encouraged me
>to not attend church with
>my family when I went
>home to visit, but to
>find a local branch of
>the church.


Yeah...my friend was going to an L.A. branch of Church of Christ, and when I invited her to visit my church, she said she couldn't because her pastor told her that if she visits another church, she'll be unequally yoked with a non believer.

it makes sense now.....

--loryn.

A woman with a moon falling from her mouth, roses between her legs and tiaras of Spanish moss, this woman is a consort of the spirits. --ntozake shange, "sassafras, cypress and indigo"

ask away http://www.formspring.me/elledub

http://www.loryncwilson.com

tweet me up: @elledub_1920

I would call it a cult. To be honest my sister is still in it, and it has changed every aspect of her relationship with my mother and I. Things are better between us now, but for many years times were tough. They prey on people that are searching for the truth but want it spoonfed to them. After leaving, I never lost my faith in GOD, as a matter of fact, it may me learn that ultimately my relationship with my GOD is my own responsibility. I took studying thebible into my own hands, and now I feel that I am better for it. Your friend will most likely leave the ICOC. Their turnover rate is tremendous. The important thing is that you don't hold his/her behavior against him/her, and that you are still there to be a true friend.
peace.

That right there, is the platinum truth

Peace!!!!!!

BurbKnight- Founder of T.O.P.A.

Houston OkayPlayer Squad:

BurbKnight, Finesse, k_ysla, Solange, PolarBear, chocolateboywonder a.k.a BrotherBear (on and off), ReignStorm, MeganF (on and off), Ms.B, SoulOne, unohoo, pheen, slimpockets, voodoo1, bc, DELTA1393, foxfoto, SupermanFrom281, copperwings, MrBastard, Madame X

////////////////////////////////////////

You learn a lot of stuff when you look at the Word and plug it into
the equation of "observing of lifestyles". Choose wisely!!!!!- me

///////////////////////////////
AIM: BurbKnight

Okayplayer Directory: http://theblackknight.tripod.com/okayplayer/okayplayer.html

you're the answer.
as far as i've seen it the churh is the 5th circle of hell, and New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Atlanta, GA. is hell on earth. that's where yours truly had a group of superbelievers cast a demon out of me! thanks christians* !!!

*if this is offensive to you, remember, i have a demon living inside me. i can't help it.

there is nothing in the building. the kingdom of God is within. i go to church for fellowship which is VERY important i feel for growth but "church" does not "save" you. as the saying goes, its "not about how high you jump but how you walk when you come down". in any situation i feel its is important to chew the meat and spit out the bones, take what you need and leave the rest for the dogs. sad to say i hear this report from many about church and its flaws. remember that those flaws are not God's flaws-- that's people and don't let people disrupt you relationship with the Divine. get to know Him for yaself


"I will love thee Lord, my strength..." Psalm 1:18

ladykocoa

>you're the answer.
>as far as i've seen it
>the churh is the 5th
>circle of hell, and New
>Birth Missionary Baptist Church in
>Atlanta, GA. is hell on
>earth. that's where yours truly
>had a group of superbelievers
>cast a demon out of
>me! thanks christians* !!!
>
I think New Birth (and The Cathedral for that matter) successfully planted a festering pus-like cynicism of religion - christianity especially - in me that I can't seem to get rid of. And the more I think about it, (the image of Eddie Long and the Paulk brothers - I think that's their name) the more repulsed I become with what christianity has become in these two places specifically - a damn hell hole.

The demon that is NB is certainly a greater one than that that was (is it still) in you. . . so rest easy. they'll have bigger problems to deal with when their time comes around.

lmao!!

This thread caught my attention immediately because this subject matter is a major part of my life right now. I used to be part of a particular religion in which the teachings include disfellowshipping yourself from your friends and even family members if they don't attend the same meetings you do. The belief behind this is that if they don't go to the church like you do, then they don't love God and communication with them should be limited if not cut off completely. The fact is that most Christian religions use the brainwashing technic of equating your relationship with the church and your relationship with God. 100% inaccuracy. Some faithful members of churches & relgions are the most judgemental people in the world preaching selective verses of the Bible to you but ignoring the scripture about not being in the position to judge any human. On top of that, come into the church wearing something they don't approve of and see if they don't gossip about you IN THE CHURCH with their Bibles open to the scripture about condemning gossipers and slanderers of others. I do agree with what was said earlier about being able to apply certain aspects of every religion to your life but keeping your life centered around spirituality not religion aka human intervention. I once asked a dear friend who is still apart of the religion I left and even more a whole hearted believer than he was when I was caught up in it, "Why do you need to attend mandatory meetings with others in order to praise God." His response actually made sense which was, "Well the same reason people attend classes to speak a different language. When some people are trying to learn and experience something in particular it helps when you have the support of those who have the same learning interest as you do." This to me made sense. My perspective, however, is that if these "interest" meetings require me to be brainwashed, judged, and afraid of being cast to hell because of not applying their human regulations to my life, I'd rather search for the Creator's guidance on my own terms. Another reason why I lack interest in the area of organized religion is the judgement that is rendered against other religions. These people stand up in your face and tell you that their is One Supreme Being, All Seeing, Merciful, Most High, Creator of all that is in existence then in the same breath say that the God another religion is praising doesn't exist. Explain to me how your contribution of praise is worth more than the guy right down the street who is in a similar building but reading a Bible published by a different company. Then on a more personal level, I tell my mom (who is innit2winnit) that I prayed on a matter that bothered me and she snickers at me as if to say, "Don't waste your time. God wants nothing to do with you." That's Christian-like alright. The basic fact that Christianity was used to mentally enslave the indiginous Afrikan troubles me enough. This isn't to say that my only issue is Christianity though. Don't get me wrong but this is the group of people who have affected me the most. I had a relationship (secretively) with a girl in high-school for 3 years and because I refused to go back to the religion I left, (although her mom had a good sales pitch) our relationship had to come to an end. I fought tooth and nail to keep the bond that we had but religion is a powerful force. Now, a few years later, I'm married to the person I believe to be my soul-mate and we practice spirituality and upliftment NOT religion. If you've read all of this, thank you for letting me vent on this subject. Peace, Power, & Life...

-espeynomortalmancantestme.ivc

"The same hypocrites screaming pro-life & marriages are using religion to justify their savageness. How bad is this? You and the Creator need a mediator. Your priest is human. Your relationship with God is greater..."-Talib Kweli

and i'm moving to michigan in a few weeks and am going to have to leave my wonderful teaching pastor and my beloved church family behind..*sigh* I AM GOING to miss them! But I'll find a church in Michigan. I know it!

Why do I love my church?
1. Cuz I love the Lord and this is HIS church.
2. My pastor teaches....bring your Bible, pens & paper. And as a result of his teaching and pastoring, I have a personal relationship with God. He also allows the spirit to use him to show me where I've gone wrong and where I CAN go right.
3. I love my church family.
4. My church family loves me.

Ms. Brownsuger, I hope you're reading: Bad Chuches are like plane crashes. Lots of Planes take off and land EVERYDAY without incident. And you never hear about those. But when a plane crashes, it's news because of the enormity of the consequences.

There are churches all over this world THAT WORK! And prayer, meditation and watching religious programming may work for you. But my going to church is based on these two things:
Service: For all that He does for me, a part of my serving Him, requires me to go to "service" And that's why we were created; to serve HIM.
And....
When Jesus was 12 he got missin' from his parents. When they found him, he was asked about his whereabouts. He revealed to Mary & Joseph that he had been in the synagogue being "about his Father's business" Jesus, the Son of God, went to church. I GOT to be there!

I hope this helps.

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

I do agree with you... There are good churches, out there. This is the longest period of time, that I have not attended any church, at all. I am still looking for a church to attend, that I can feel comfortable. As soon as I do, I'll be going back.

$$$$$$$QUOTES$$$$$$$

November is..."Jive Turkey" month!!!

Though you may not drive, a great big Cadillac.
Gangsta whitewalls, t.v. antenna, in the back.
You may not have, a car at all,
Just remember, brothers and sisters,
you can still stand tall.
Just be thankful, for what you got,
Though you may not drive a great big Cadillac,
Diamonds in the back, sunroof top,
Diggin' the scene,
with a gangsta lean, oooh-hooo!!

"Yeah Mon!!!

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

a bunch of churches before I settled down. I was out of the church for about 8 years before I decided to deal with spirituallity, meaning dealing with the issues I had with organized religion. Eventually, God helped me find a home, but it took me a while to finally get back in His house. Remember that God never turns his back on his own and he recognized his flock.

Peace

Wendell

Peace

Wendell

I agree with Wendell regarding visiting churches until one's community is recognized. I agree with those who say that at least one value of church is fellowship (which I believe is very important). I agree with NuShooz about bad churches and plane crashes. I agree with those who say that people are people and churches hold people, so bad people will be in church too.

My experience did not lead me ultimately to a Christian denomination, but I have the utmost respect for Christianity and its heartfelt practitioners. I also watched my mother find her place in a church that I never expected would be right for her, but was because of the community and the wonderful pastor. Despite the fact that had you questioned her closely on that denomination's theology, it really wouldn't have been right for her -- nevertheless, all of that was overshadowed by the love and support in the community.

One of the things that human beings have the capacity to do is to gauge the sincerity of others. We can often be tricked into believing that someone is sincere, but we also usually awaken to the reality sooner or later. Usually, if we have the wool pulled over our eyes for any significant length of time when it comes to integrity issues, it's because we've deliberately shut our eyes to those issues.

The fact that you're questioning makes the search easier. You're primed to spot insincerity and lack of integrity. Trust your heart. Mother and I both ended up in places that we didn't expect to be, and in both cases it was just the right place for us. And that kind of thing doesn't happen solely through intellectual analysis. So trust your heart.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

I'm more into praying on my own, and doing right by the Lord from within. It's to the point where it's a lot harder to find a church without corruption.
One of the churches that my family used to attend, the pastor fathered a child from a 16 year old...pastor was married with 3 kids in the church, after that point, it was downhill from there.
Another thing about churches, it seems as though a lot of people go there for entertainment rather than to learn about the word of God and to pray and worship. People "caught the spirit" to get attention, while other people use it to show off their new worldly possessions, while other cats use the church as a dating service, it's a damn shame.
If you like your church, then stay...but the Lord said any man can come to him, so it seems to me that if it's more trouble than it's worth, do your worship at home...where you know you're free from corruption. The Lord will understand.

Peace
Rex

Abdul Jabbar, Muggsy Malone you
I don't know what that means but you know what I meant when I told you (c) Sean Price

"the Lord will understand"????? And I can't say that He won't bless some one who is confused for staying away from church....but there should always be worship.

MY UNDERSTANDING of worship is Biblically based - there is a requirement on worship AND remember that little commandment to love as "God loved the Church" - the Bible says "church" not your own comforts labeled home.......

Lemme say this.... I cap-ped "my understanding" cuz I want you to know that my responses, just like me worship, is personal....it is MINE.......

Additionally, lemme ask this:
Who is personally responsible for misdoings and bad instruction in the church? The answer is the pastor who is given charge over his flock. And he will pay a greater price than you and I for any blatant, knowingly misgiving against God and His children......

2ndly, the reason we go to church is to hear from God, to study and learn His words as directed by ppl that He has called....not to survey what things other ppl are doing wrong (as perceived by us). What He has for you - at church - is for you. And who's to say that what we may perceive as an abomination against what is right and ultimately God, that this same situation may be an instraument to turn that person or you as an observer to Him????
We don't know. But don't fail the test.......

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

just to follow through on one point, Shooz -- Each person in the congregation has a responsibility to use the sense that God gave them, if any (by which I mean that different people are in different situations and have arrived there with different abilities), to leave that congregation or to otherwise make a statement (which can be made by leaving) when they realize that the pastor has crossed the line from peculiar to dangerous.

Yes, the pastor bears his/her share of responsibility. But to believe that all responsibility for the congregation falls on one person's shoulders is to deny the people of the church their own share of credit or discredit. Remember that the most common response at Nuremburg was "I was just following orders."

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

We are ALL responsible for our own sins, no doubt!

Lemme say this:
I go to a church where we our pastor is very know in the political community. When threatened with re-segregation of Charlotte/Mecklenburg School our church with our pastor at the head of the fight with other local leaders, was at EVERY school board meeting. Now rather of not your agree with his politics or not may not even come into play. But he's done two things by requiring his congregation to follow him into this fight. He's made a decision for us politically. They folk say "Little Rock AME Zion Church made a strong showing at this last school board meeting" Has the Pastor put his congregation in a good or a bad place? God will say so.

My pastor teaches that there are no BIG and little sins. Lying is just as bad as murdering. And that there is only 2-3 accounts of homosexuality in the Bible while there are far many more of heterosexual misdoings. He says that WE (heterosexuals) need to get ourselves together before we start pointing fingers. Was he wrong for not calling homosexuality an abomination of God in this instance? Who's to say? God will.

So I guess my point is, that the direction that the church goes in is definitley the responsibility of the pastor. And if you, as a follower, are steared in that direction, which turns out to be wrong, you will pay a less stern price than the one who has led you - as a man of God.

Am I making sense? I get the feeling that sometimes - maybe - I don't - here.

Oh, and discernment is an issue in religion as well. We all should be excersising our God given discernment, no doubt! Which is how we should end up with WHAT IS FOR US in any situation - church.

Live
Nu

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

I'll bet your pastor also points out all the stuff about getting that plank out of your own eye before you try to help your neighbor get the splinter out of his.

I'm tellin ya (and here is where we'll doubtless disagree), based on my personal experience and that of my mother and sister, it seems to me that it doesn't matter what the denomination is so long as the community (led by its leader) is exhibiting true love for humanity and true forgiveness and true humility. I figure that if God wanted us all to worship him the same way, we would have been created in a way that one way satisfies all of us. I get the feeling that God likes a little diversity, too, nahmean?

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

guess what? We don't even part company on the point that you thought we would....
Cuz guess what?
We (our church) have services with our friends of the jewish and muslim faiths here in Charlotte. We have Bible Study with our Jewish friends for a month at least once a year. And our relationship with Charlotte Muslim faiths is ongoing as well. See, why I love my church! We ain judgin nobody!

I'm not saying that Christianity is THE ONLY way to live your life. The biggest denominator is LOVE!!!!!

Live
Nu

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

My sister and I kind of scurred my mother's pastor when she was dying (the pastor of whom I always speak so highly had since retired and this new guy was still kind of finding his feet). Mother was a Baptist, and I'm a Catholic in polite company, a Buddhist at heart, and my sister converted to Judaism when she got married. We're all fine with all of it, but that poor man was shakin' in his boots....

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

>"the Lord will understand"????? And
>I can't say that He
>won't bless some one who
>is confused for staying away
>from church....but there should always
>be worship.
Pretty much by my prior statement...doing right by him in your life. If you go to church, or if you don't and you practice your faith at home, either one is not a sin...so that's where the understanding would come from.

>MY UNDERSTANDING of worship is Biblically
>based - there is a
>requirement on worship AND remember
>that little commandment to love
>as "God loved the Church"
>- the Bible says "church"
>not your own comforts labeled
>home.......
So, what makes a church then? What is the definition of a church? From MY UNDERSTANDING, a church is a house of God. By that definition, I don't need stained-glass windows and an altar, or a collection plate, my house can also act as a church, being that it is a house of God.

>Lemme say this.... I cap-ped "my
>understanding" cuz I want you
>to know that my responses,
>just like me worship, is
>personal....it is MINE.......
That's fine...and I respect your personal opinion. It's obvious that you feel very strongly about your faith and your church which is good (and sadly, rare these days). It's good to get this insight

>Additionally, lemme ask this:
>Who is personally responsible for misdoings
>and bad instruction in the
>church? The answer is
>the pastor who is given
>charge over his flock.
>And he will pay a
>greater price than you and
>I for any blatant, knowingly
>misgiving against God and His
>children......
There's no argument there. He's taking the word of God and twisting it, while sinning as well, that's a double-whammy

>2ndly, the reason we go to
>church is to hear from
>God, to study and learn
>His words as directed by
>ppl that He has called....not
>to survey what things other
>ppl are doing wrong (as
>perceived by us). What
>He has for you -
>at church - is for
>you. And who's to
>say that what we may
>perceive as an abomination against
>what is right and ultimately
>God, that this same situation
>may be an instraument to
>turn that person or you
>as an observer to Him????
I agree, that is the purpose of the Church, to listen to the word of God, to pray, and to study the word. But if the teacher is corrupt as well as a good portion of the students, the school must be called into question. If the students as well as the teachers are passing the wrong message, then some students would ultimately be affected, and that would defeat the purpose.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree

Peace
Rex

Abdul Jabbar, Muggsy Malone you
I don't know what that means but you know what I meant when I told you (c) Sean Price

the point of your house being a house of God....

I can't put into words right now what I believe a church is...And though, "me and my house...praise the Lord" that does not make my four walls a church.....The prayer rail in our church is holy, the pulpit is holy, the man who He has called to pastor His people is holy...I guess it's a "reverence" call.

Is there a spot in your home that you call holy and hold in reverence?

And my personal definition of church is laid with the thoughts of ppl of similar worship and ideals gathering.....

I'm going to do a little research and be back....

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

the Bible actually sets precedents for both.


Precedents of a church being a special and holy place set aside solely for worship can be found throughout the OT. There were the Tent of Meeting (which housed the Ark of the Convenant) and the temple built by Solomon. According to the OT, God had very stringent rules about who and how one could enter those places, further establishing that set aside places of worship be holy and sacred. The Tent of Meeting is referenced many times throughout Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers and again in 1 & 2 Chronicles, where the OT tells of the Israelites worshipping at the Tent again until Solomon had completed the temple.

On the other hand, when those disciples who followed "the way" were just starting out, they *did* meet in homes of the followers in addition to meeting at the temple courts. Look at Acts 2:42-47, especially verse 46 and again in Acts 5:42. The NASB version uses the phrasing "house to house"; however, regardless of translation, the passages convey that people did, in fact, meet to study and worship in their own homes.

I have more to say... I just gotta do it later. I'll be back....

- the fabulous one (the slow jam connoisseur)


okay countdowns: 87 (february 17), 146 (april 10), 191 (may 25)
fab via aim, msn, yahoo! --> twentysixfab
fab via e-mail --> twentysixfab@hotmail.com
fab via www (26 fab place) --> not quite ready yet...

- fabulous/26

"MY UNDERSTANDING of worship is Biblically based - there is a requirement on worship AND remember that little commandment to love as "God loved the Church" - the Bible says "church" not your own comforts labeled home......."

All of this is based upon which Bible you read. Everyone knows that different people interpret the Bible differently. In essence, the Bible is going to be worded according to who published it. I say this to say that beliefs that exist because of statements made in the Bible will always be affected by who edited that Bible. Therefore, quotes such as "God loved the Church" aren't as cut and dry as they seem. This isn't to say that I agree with you or not in your form of worship because that is not my place as another oxygen breathing human but I figured I'd point that out. Peace, Power, and Life

-espeynomortalmancantestme.ivc

the church ain't changed over the years it is simply now tings are talked about more openly. i was raised in a large church. there was gossip, fornication, lying etc. but my mama always told me that it wasn't my job to judge and just b/c the people aren't right doesn't mean the foundation of the religion isn't. u can't control the actions of others all u can do is do what is right. religion and spirituality is mine- it is personal and though i do believe in fellowshiping with others, i don't let others deter me.
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I vividly remember the day that my pastor (in the heart of Hollywood) stood up in the pulpit and said, "The pastor requests that you refrain from giving money to the homeless people outside the church doors, as it simply encourages them to hang out here and scare people away."

I turned to my neighbor and said, "That is sheer bullshit." (Thinking in particular about the completely alienated and silent homeless man who had started out by coming in to sleep in a warm place during evening Mass, who was fed and accepted and gradually encouraged by the congregation, who eventually stayed awake, sat up, took notice, started standing, sitting, kneeling, when we did, eventually learned the responses, and ultimately became the parking lot attendant with his own name tag and everything).

My neighbor said, "Now, now, he's the pastor. He's a priest. He's led by God."

I said, "No, ma'am, he's a human being and he's fallible and this is wrong."

I wrote a letter to his superior and to the local bishop and when no real resolution was reached, I wrote another one to them and left that parish.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

in a spiritual sense at this parish - prior to your leaving?

Did this awful event (admonishment of feeding homeless ppl) negate any "food" you were getting there?

Live
Nu

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

Actually, I was, but you're quite right that it wasn't via the pastor. This being a Jesuit run Catholic parish, there were a handful of priests in residence, one of whom was nominally in charge. There was a priest with whom I was very, very good friends there at the time as well, and I kind of felt as though I was deserting him when I left the parish, but I had to do what I had to do. Sadly, up until the year before the parish had been run by a different priest, who was very cool, and his immediate assistant was a priest who reminded me of Henry Fonda in one of his sweet roles...

But you are absolutely right in your meta-message, Shooz.

Peace.

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

Live
Nu

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

?

My sister has been dating a very "religious" man for a couple of weeks. She says that he goes to church, every Sunday. She says, when he comes to her house, he prays every single time that he eats. She also says that he gets on his knees and prays that they will have a good relationship. Yes, it is a shame, that me and my other sister are worried, that this might not be a good relationship. I guess, because, these days; people will hide their true selves behind religion. Even though her previous boyfriend, was not up to par, he was not real "religious". My other sister says, that men like that are very controlling. I really hope that things work out, as he is praying that they do...but it is a damn shame, that I am leary about this relationship, between my sister and her new man!!!

$$$$$$$QUOTES$$$$$$$

November is..."Jive Turkey" month!!!

Though you may not drive, a great big Cadillac.
Gangsta whitewalls, t.v. antenna, in the back.
You may not have, a car at all,
Just remember, brothers and sisters,
you can still stand tall.
Just be thankful, for what you got,
Though you may not drive a great big Cadillac,
Diamonds in the back, sunroof top,
Diggin' the scene,
with a gangsta lean, oooh-hooo!!

"Yeah Mon!!!

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

You say that this man prays before every meal....prays that his relationship with your sister is a good one, right?
But is his LIFE evidence of his apparent prayerfulness? You and she have the answers. Look at his LIFE! And I don't mean his mistakes or the things that he may have once done....what is he doing now? Do you know that he was once something very different? Is he contrite? Is he active in his SERVICE to God? You know sincerity when you see it, right?

And is your sister praying? Has she had men in her life before that even tried to think about God - in the way that this brother is? At least he's praying. How many brothers have we known that only reference God when he's looking at your butt or praisin the sex he's gettin at the time?

If she doesn't feel like she can rely on her own discernment, has SHE prayed and asked God? He is not a God of confusion and He will make His presence known.

Brown, God ANSWERS prayer! And if you've prayed and believed, your prayers are answered and your life is changed! I KNOW what I'm talkin' about.....not because I've seen it, but because I've lived it! (I'm trying hard not to make this post into a testimony....don't wanna get too preachy)

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

My sister, just recently started talking to this guy about two weeks ago. Yes, I am being a little predjudice towards him, right now, because, there are so many phony people out there!!! I would never say anything negative about him to my sister, because that would definetly be wrong!!! If she was to break up with him, because he prays all the time, this could be a very big mistake!!! She had, had a lot of problems in her previous relationships with men and she did tell me that she prayed for a good man...this could be him. But in case he is a fake, I hope that she has enough strength and faith in God to see her through this relationship.

Me, myself...a woman that believe in trusting in God, for everything...I had prayed several years for God to send a good man into my life. A man did come into my life, for which, I married. The relationship was not perfect at first, but it was okay. At the time, I had to have surgery, and I was unable to do too many things for myself. This relationship was right on target. This man really helped me through a very difficult time. But all the while, he had an identity problem...He was unsure of who his real father was and his mother did not help make matters, any better!!!

As time moved on, his problems, elevated...He started, drinking, using drugs and became very disrespectful and violent. I had to pray all the time, I wanted out of this relatinship so badly!!!...This torture went on for at leat 10 years or so!!! No matter how I prayed, things only got worse...I was so afraid, all through those years that someone was going to loose their life!!! No matter what happened, I continued to pray...I didn't have no one to turn to but God. I would always question, God and myself as to how I got caught up in this terrible situation. I was constantly in fear, with no place to go. All of a sudden...things started to change!!! To make a long story short, God eventually removed him out of my life!!!

Now, so far, I have been alone...These are the happiest days that I have seen, since I was a child. I feel free and contented. Life will never be perfect for anyone, but with the things that I experienced, I must say that my life is perfect, now!!! I still pray, all the time and still trust God, and I don't believe that I made a mistake my marrying this man; and I don't think God lead me in the wrong direction!!!

$$$$$$$QUOTES$$$$$$$

November is..."Jive Turkey" month!!!

Though you may not drive, a great big Cadillac.
Gangsta whitewalls, t.v. antenna, in the back.
You may not have, a car at all,
Just remember, brothers and sisters,
you can still stand tall.
Just be thankful, for what you got,
Though you may not drive a great big Cadillac,
Diamonds in the back, sunroof top,
Diggin' the scene,
with a gangsta lean, oooh-hooo!!

"Yeah Mon!!!

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

>My sister, just recently started talking
>to this guy about two
>weeks ago. Yes, I
>am being a little predjudice
>towards him, right now, because,
>there are so many phony
>people out there!!! I
>would never say anything negative
>about him to my sister,
>because that would definetly be
>wrong!!! If she was
>to break up with him,
>because he prays all the
>time, this could be a
>very big mistake!!! She
>had, had a lot of
>problems in her previous relationships
>with men and she did
>tell me that she prayed
>for a good man...this could
>be him. But in
>case he is a fake,
>I hope that she has
>enough strength and faith in
>God to see her through
>this relationship.
>
>Me, myself...a woman that believe in
>trusting in God, for everything...I
>had prayed several years for
>God to send a good
>man into my life.
>A man did come into
>my life, for which, I
>married. The relationship was
>not perfect at first, but
>it was okay. At
>the time, I had to
>have surgery, and I was
>unable to do too many
>things for myself. This
>relationship was right on target.
> This man really helped
>me through a very difficult
>time. But all the
>while, he had an identity
>problem...He was unsure of who
>his real father was and
>his mother did not help
>make matters, any better!!!
>
>As time moved on, his problems,
>elevated...He started, drinking, using drugs
>and became very disrespectful and
>violent. I had to
>pray all the time, I
>wanted out of this relatinship
>so badly!!!...This torture went on
>for at leat 10 years
>or so!!! No matter
>how I prayed, things only
>got worse...I was so afraid,
>all through those years that
>someone was going to loose
>their life!!! No matter
>what happened, I continued to
>pray...I didn't have no one
>to turn to but God.
> I would always question,
>God and myself as to
>how I got caught up
>in this terrible situation.
>I was constantly in fear,
>with no place to go.
> All of a sudden...things
>started to change!!! To
>make a long story short,
>God eventually removed him out
>of my life!!!
>
>Now, so far, I have been
>alone...These are the happiest days
>that I have seen, since
>I was a child.
>I feel free and contented.
> Life will never be
>perfect for anyone, but with
>the things that I experienced,
>I must say that my
>life is perfect, now!!!
>I still pray, all the
>time and still trust God,
>and I don't believe that
>I made a mistake my
>marrying this man; and I
>don't think God lead me
>in the wrong direction!!!
>
>$$$$$$$QUOTES$$$$$$$
>
>November is..."Jive Turkey" month!!!
>
>Though you may not drive, a
>great big Cadillac.
>Gangsta whitewalls, t.v. antenna, in the
>back.
>You may not have, a car
>at all,
>Just remember, brothers and sisters,
>you can still stand tall.
>Just be thankful, for what you
>got,
>Though you may not drive a
>great big Cadillac,
>Diamonds in the back, sunroof top,
>
>Diggin' the scene,
>with a gangsta lean, oooh-hooo!!
>
>"Yeah Mon!!!

>>My sister, just recently started talking
>>to this guy about two
>>weeks ago. Yes, I
>>am being a little predjudice
>>towards him, right now, because,
>>there are so many phony
>>people out there!!! I
>>would never say anything negative
>>about him to my sister,
>>because that would definetly be
>>wrong!!! If she was
>>to break up with him,
>>because he prays all the
>>time, this could be a
>>very big mistake!!! She
>>had, had a lot of
>>problems in her previous relationships
>>with men and she did
>>tell me that she prayed
>>for a good man...this could
>>be him. But in
>>case he is a fake,
>>I hope that she has
>>enough strength and faith in
>>God to see her through
>>this relationship.
>>
>>Me, myself...a woman that believe in
>>trusting in God, for everything...I
>>had prayed several years for
>>God to send a good
>>man into my life.
>>A man did come into
>>my life, for which, I
>>married. The relationship was
>>not perfect at first, but
>>it was okay. At
>>the time, I had to
>>have surgery, and I was
>>unable to do too many
>>things for myself. This
>>relationship was right on target.
>> This man really helped
>>me through a very difficult
>>time. But all the
>>while, he had an identity
>>problem...He was unsure of who
>>his real father was and
>>his mother did not help
>>make matters, any better!!!
>>
>>As time moved on, his problems,
>>elevated...He started, drinking, using drugs
>>and became very disrespectful and
>>violent. I had to
>>pray all the time, I
>>wanted out of this relatinship
>>so badly!!!...This torture went on
>>for at leat 10 years
>>or so!!! No matter
>>how I prayed, things only
>>got worse...I was so afraid,
>>all through those years that
>>someone was going to loose
>>their life!!! No matter
>>what happened, I continued to
>>pray...I didn't have no one
>>to turn to but God.
>> I would always question,
>>God and myself as to
>>how I got caught up
>>in this terrible situation.
>>I was constantly in fear,
>>with no place to go.
>> All of a sudden...things
>>started to change!!! To
>>make a long story short,
>>God eventually removed him out
>>of my life!!!
>>
>>Now, so far, I have been
>>alone...These are the happiest days
>>that I have seen, since
>>I was a child.
>>I feel free and contented.
>> Life will never be
>>perfect for anyone, but with
>>the things that I experienced,
>>I must say that my
>>life is perfect, now!!!
>>I still pray, all the
>>time and still trust God,
>>and I don't believe that
>>I made a mistake my
>>marrying this man; and I
>>don't think God lead me
>>in the wrong direction!!!
>>
>>$$$$$$$QUOTES$$$$$$$
>>
>>November is..."Jive Turkey" month!!!
>>
>>Though you may not drive, a
>>great big Cadillac.
>>Gangsta whitewalls, t.v. antenna, in the
>>back.
>>You may not have, a car
>>at all,
>>Just remember, brothers and sisters,
>>you can still stand tall.
>>Just be thankful, for what you
>>got,
>>Though you may not drive a
>>great big Cadillac,
>>Diamonds in the back, sunroof top,
>>
>>Diggin' the scene,
>>with a gangsta lean, oooh-hooo!!
>>
>>"Yeah Mon!!!

CAN SOME BODY HELP ME

Live from the Shoe Sto'
NuShooz

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

The Bible says that there will come a time when the 1st shall be last & the last shall be first.

The Bible also describes the great exodus of jews from under the Pharoah's maniacal rule into (for a few) the Promised Land.

All of our (Black ppl) believe this and thusly have initiated their leadership of the people.

So, if the question is: Is the Church the Answer for the Start & Proliferation of a Movement - I say yes!

Ghandi, King, Malcolm, Farrakan......How bad is a church or can a church be if it produces folk of this calliber and care?

Live
Nu

I,I, I Can't Wait!

nushooz@blackplanet.com

Live from the Shoe Sto, the Mall and NOW the courtroom


I, I, I Can't Wait?
U've waited long enuff!

Church ain't never been the answer, since it ain't nothin' but a building. It has no more spiritual significance than this computer I am tying on. You relationship with GOD is all you need. You or anyone else does not need any intermediates. You dig?

>Church ain't never been the answer,
>since it ain't nothin' but
>a building. It has
>no more spiritual significance than
>this computer I am tying
>on. You relationship with
>GOD is all you need.
> You or anyone else
>does not need any intermediates.
> You dig?

Where's your proof?

-me (devil's advocate):D

lol

-espeynomortalmancantestme.ivc