Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby Okay Activist Archives topic #18248

Subject: "columbus/african sailors/america" This topic is locked.
Previous topic | Next topic
emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Thu Feb-22-01 05:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"columbus/african sailors/america"


          

anyone read van sertima's "they came before...that guy"?

i've yet to read the actual text but have used it as a reference in a few papers.

thoughts on this? olmecs and such? black sailors in pre-columbian california, mexico, central america? reed boats? senegalese surf handlers? chesapeake bay boatbuilders?

this is of interest to me because i'm into boating n such, and most of my family has been as well. from motor to kayak to fishing trawlers to sailboats.... y'kno hampton had the first sailing team at a historically black university? i didn't make it cuz the swim test was too long. *u could say i was a bitch about it.*

anyway, ppl of african descent have a long history of being on the water, as continental trade was strenuous and done overland (via camel) or major riverine arteries. funny how american blacks have no connection with the water even though most of us live near rivers or the ocean. we can't swim worth shit, and boats are a joke harkening back to slavery. i just came across a book called "black sailors"(?) and it's opened my eyes quite a bit. okay, ramble, but jus wanna know thoughts on this.

i mean...i'm sayin tho.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: columbus/african sailors/america
Feb 22nd 2001
1
RE: columbus/african sailors/america pt 2.
Feb 22nd 2001
2
See "OkayBlackourstorymonth."
Feb 22nd 2001
3
gracias
Feb 23rd 2001
4
i will try
Feb 23rd 2001
5
Africans in Mexico
Feb 23rd 2001
6
      ?
Feb 23rd 2001
7
      thank you
Feb 25th 2001
8
           go further than that
Feb 27th 2001
9
                been trying to...
Feb 27th 2001
10
                     i'll find the book
Feb 27th 2001
11
                          thank! n/m
Feb 27th 2001
12
deeper than the olmecs
Feb 27th 2001
13
thor heyerdahl (sp?)
Feb 27th 2001
14

abduhu
Charter member
1734 posts
Thu Feb-22-01 05:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "RE: columbus/african sailors/america"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i was well aware of this. an african am. muslim scholar named abdullah hakim quick has a video entitled "Deeper Roots:
Muslims in the Americas before Columbus". it provides some of the same info as the article below does. and a whole lot more!

i thought id post the article instead of the link, b/c cats is lazy with the links!

and i know (before anyone says somethin) that you were not specifically referring to muslims in the ams., i thought it would be interesting for those okps who didnt know.


MUSLIM LEGACY IN EARLY AMERICAS
West Africans, Moors and Amerindians
Jose V. Pimienta-Bey

Introduction
The works of men such as Ivan Van Sertima, Barry Fell and Alexander Von Wuthenau represent 20th century scholarship which has stated directly or indirectly - that there has been a significant Muslim presence in the early Americas. While it is true that there have been a number of Muslim writers such as Clyde-Ahmad Winters who have sought to enlighten folks to that fact, it is perhaps more significant that "non-Muslims" have conceded such evidence of pre and post-Colombian Muslims on this continent.


Barry Fell

New Zealand archaeologist and linguist Barry Fell in his work Saga America (1980) pointed to existing evidence of a Muslim presence in various parts of the Americas. In addition to drawing several cultural parallels between West African peoples and certain "Indian" peoples of the southwest, Fell points out that the southwest's Pima people possessed a vocabulary which contained words of Arabic origin. The presence of such words among the Pima is compounded by the existence of Islamic petrogyphs in places like California. Fell informs us that in Inyo county, California, there exists an early American petrogyph (rock carving) which stated in Arabic: "Yasus ben Maria" ("Jesus, Son of Mary"), a phrase commonly found within the surahs of the Holy Qur'an. Fell is convinced that this glyph is many centuries older than the U.S.
Fell also identified the algonquian language as having words with arabic roots, especially words which pertained to navigation, astronomy, meteorology, medicine and anatomy. The presence of such words again illustrates significant cultural contact between the American "Indians" and the Arabic-speaking peoples of the Islamic world. Such Islamic peoples evidently came primarily from the African continent as additional evidence suggests.


Alexander Von Wuthenau
Although German art historian and collector Alexander Von Wuthenau argues that the ancient and early Americas were filled with an international melange of peoples from Africa, Asia and Europe, his artifactual evidence reveals that Islamic peoples were clearly a prominent group within it. In his classic work, Unexpected Faces in Ancient America (1975), Von Wuthenau specifically identifies a group of carved heads as "Moorish-looking." Found within Mexico, such heads are dated between 300 - 900 C.E. and another between 900 -1500 C.E. (common era). One such artifact of the "classic" (300 - 900 C.E.) is described by Von Wuthenau as "an old man with hat." Such artifacts are worth a thousand words and the photograph of the "old man" artifact clearly resembles that of an old man wearing a Fez.
The presence of the naja among the dineh (a.k.a. "Navjo") is intriguing given the other evidence of Islamic contacts with the early American west. The naja is a crescent moon symbol found among the dineh that is used in such things as decoration and jewelry. While it is indeed possible that the symbol was indigenous to the dineh, a number of Smithsonian scholars apparently think that the symbol: "spread from Moslem North Africa to Spain, then to Mexico, then to the Navajo" (The Native Americans (1991) edited by Colin Taylor). Although the inference of the Smithsonian published text seems to be that the Spaniards brought the naja, it seems very odd to me that the crucifix-centered Catholic Spaniards would introduce such a symbol. After all, the customarily dogmatic Catholic Spaniards would have been introducing a religious symbol which represented the spiritual motif of their nemesis. If it was brought from Spain, I would argue that it probably came via expelled Moorish Muslims or subjugated "Moriscos." "Morisco" was the term used by Catholic officials to designate Moors (Moros) who were allowed to re main in Catholic dominions. It is essentially pejorative.


Ivan Van Sertima
Ivan Van Sertima is of course renowned for his first revitalizing original work: They Came Before Columbus (1976) which outlined evidence of ancient and early African contacts with the American continent. Although it was not the first work to discuss the topic, it certainly consolidated the African evidence in a more interdisciplinary fashion which cried out for renewed attention particularly from the African American community. Van Sertima's other edited works like African Presence In Early America offered additional information about the African legacy in the Americas. Both of the above works point out proofs of African Muslim settlements/contacts within the pre-Columbian Americas. Van Sertima identifies l2th and l3th century Chinese documents which spoke of "Arab" Muslim trade extending beyond the Atlantic coast of west Africa.
Among the items of evidence which Van Sertima unveils is the presence of African Muslim surnames among American "Indian" peoples. Quoting a French linguist, Van Sertima points out that Ges, Zamoras, Marabitine, and Marabios are a few of the names with clear transcontinental links. Of particular interest to me, however, are the names "Marabitine" and "Marabios" which I noted relate to "Marabout" (Murabit): the "Holy Men and Women" of the Moorish Empire. The Marabouts were the protectors of African Muslim frontiers, they are often remembered for having acted as buffers against Catholic/European encroachment. The famed Ibn Battuta spoke of the Marabouts in his renowned "Travels." The antiquity of such a "Moorish" (African) presence in the Americas is hereby seen to be quite early when one considers the significance of all the evidence presented here-to-for.


De Lacy O'Leary
In his work Arabic Thought and It's Place In Western History (1992), the late British "Orientalist" De Lacy O'Leary also spoke of the area of "western Maghreb" extending "beyond the Atlantic" during the pre-Columbian Islamic era. The question is how far did O'Leary mean? Although O'Leary never clearly states that there was an Islamic presence in the early Americas, his inference compels us to wonder if that is what he meant but was not willing to say overtly. As a scholar of the Islamic world, De Lacy certainly knew that Muslims possessed the organizational, technical and navigational skill to make such a journey. The historic proof of one such journey comes in the form of Abu Bakari II of Mali, who is reported in Roudh el-kartos to have made such a trip in the early l4th century (circa 1312 C.E.). This is noted in Van Sertima's They Came Before Columbus.


Caribbean, Panama and Columbia
In Panama and Colombia there were rulers ("princes") whom the invading Catholic Spaniards recognized as having "completely Moorish or biblical" names: such as "Do-Bayda" and "Aben-Amechy." This was revealed by the mid-19th century French scholar Brasseur de Bourboug and is noted in Van Sertima's edited work African Presence In Early America.
Even in the Caribbean the evidence of a significant Muslim presence can be found. P.V. Ramos points out in his essay in African Presence in Early America, that Christopher Columbus' own impression of the "Carib" peoples was that they were "Mohemmedans." Ramos says that the dietary restrictions of the Carib were similar to those of Islamic peoples and this provided one reason for such an impression.


Clyde Ahmad Winters
In the post-Columbian era there were large numbers of Muslims residing within the European colonized Americas. Brother Clyde Ahmad Winters in a 1978 issue of Al-ittihad: A Quarterly Journal of Islamic Studies, points outs that large numbers of enslaved Muslims were brought to "Latin America" by (and for) the conquering Catholic authorities of Spain and Portugal. Among the African Islamic peoples which Winters identifies as having been brought to "Latin" territories were the Manding, Fula, Wolof, Berbers and Moors.
The African Muslims of early Latin America were evidently quite successful in converting American Indians to the religion of Islam. Initially allowed to publicly practice their faith, by 1543 Muslims in Spanish controlled American colonies were being expelled from them. Winters informs us that just after an anti-Spanish (Catholic) rebellion of combined Carib and Wolof forces failed in 1532, the Wolof were prohibited from entering the "Latin" Caribbean without special permission from Spanish Catholic authorities. According to Winters, the spread of the Islamic religion among American Indians remained a problem for Spain.
Winters draws several cultural connections between Indian peoples such as the Nanticoke and African Muslims like the Mossi. He also discusses the presence of Islam in places like Brazil whose Muslims were most often literate in the Maghrib style of Arabic. His essay clearly reveals the broad presence of Muslims - especially African Muslims - throughout the Americas: north, central and south. Although Brother Winters doesn't speak directly to the question of whether Muslims reached the Americas before the Catholics of Spain and Portugal, I would venture to say that they did. The earlier evidence cited supports the contention that the arrival of Muslim settlers predated that of the Columbus-era Catholics. In fact, I would contend that the use of Moorish Muslim navigators and navigational information had much to do with enabling the Spanish and Portuguese to even reach and settle the Americas.


Moorish Heritage
I consider it most significant that the African peoples which Winters mentions (such as the Manding, Fula, Moors, Wolof and Berbers) all came from within Moorish Imperial boundaries. Historical records reveal that in Africa the Moorish empire once extended as far south as the Senegal river and as far east as the Egyptian border. Historians of the Maghrib like S.S. Imamuddin remind us of the vast expanse of territory which was recognized as "Moorish" by centralized governments of earlier centuries. Recognition of that fact included the Western/European world. Consequently, it would have been reasonable in previous centuries for people to consider Manding, Fula also a Moorish, in that such designated peoples came from within Moorish territory. This would all change of course, as the recognized territories of the Moors would shrink over time.
It must be said that those persons known as Latino and/or Spanish more than likely possess the blood of Moorish (African) forebearers. There is most certainly a link between them and the former Muslim rulers of Al-Andalus - later known as the kingdoms of Spain and Portugal. . That fact certainly makes it quite difficult for such peoples to be racist against Africans or Muslims. Such Catholic communities should only argue theological differences and never "racial" ones. A Catholic Spaniard or Latino is essentially attempting to skate on melted ice when they try to make an argument of racial supremacy or distinction. In addition, they would be denying the historic fact of the Islamic Moors primary role as scholarly tutors and beacons of civilized society for medieval Spain and Europe.
There is much more which can be said about the legacy of Muslims in the early Americas. But this short essay was only intended to illuminate an area of the Muslim experience which is all too often overlooked. In spite of what the proverbial mainstream Christian community may think, the presence of Muslims in the Americas is much older and much more profound than many of them know (or care to admit).


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

abduhu
Charter member
1734 posts
Thu Feb-22-01 05:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "RE: columbus/african sailors/america pt 2."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and here is the muslim's side of the story. if anyone didnt notice, those were non-muslims sources. so how bout the muslims?


Muslims in the Americas before Columbus
By Dr. Youssef Mroueh

Introduction
Numerous evidence suggests that Muslims from Spain and West Africa arrived in the Americas at least five centuries before Co1umbus. It is recorded, for example that in the mid-tenth century during the rule of the Umayyad Caliph Abdul-Rahman III (929-961), Muslims of African origin sailed westward from the Spanish port of Delba (Palos) into the "Ocean of darkness an fog." They returned after a long absence with much booty from a "strange and curious land." It is evident that people of Muslim origin are known to have accompanied Columbus and subsequent Spanish explorers to the New World.
The last Muslim stronghold in Spain, Granada, fell to the Christians in 1492 CE, just before the Spanish inquisition was launched. To escape persecution, many non-Christians fled or embraced Catholicism. At least two documents imply the presence of Muslims in Spanish America before 1550 CE. Despite the fact that a decree issued in 1539 CE, by Charles V, King of Spain, forbade the grandsons of Muslims who had been burned at the stake to migrate to the West Indies. This decree was ratified in 1543 CE, and an order for the expulsion of all Muslims from overseas Spanish territories was subsequently published. Many references on the Muslim arrival in the Americas are available. They are summarized in the following notes:
Historic Documents
1. A Muslim historian and geographer Abul-Hassan Ali Ibn Al-Hussain Al-Masudi (871 - 957 CE) wrote in his book ‘Muruj Adh-dhahab wa Maadin al-Jawhar’ (The Meadows of Gold and Quarries of Jewels) that during the rule of the Muslim Caliph of Spain Abdullah Ibn Muhammad (888 - 912 CE), a Muslim navigator Khashkhash Ibn Saeed Ibn Aswad of Cordoba, Spain sailed from Delba (Palos) in 889 CE, crossed the Atlantic, reached an unknown territory (Ard Majhoola) and returned with fabulous treasures. In Al-Masudi's map of the world there is a large area in the ocean of darkness and fog (the Atlantic ocean) which he referred to as the unknown territory (the Americas).
2. A Muslim historian Abu Bakr Ibn Umar Al-Gutiyya narrated that during the reign of the Muslim Caliph of Spain, Hisham II (976 -1009 CE), another Muslim navigator Ibn Farrukh of Granada sailed from Kadesh (February 999 CE) into the Atlantic, landed in Gando (Great Canary Islands) visiting King Guanariga, and continued westward where he saw and named two islands, Capraria and Pluitana. He arrived back in Spain in May 999 CE.
3. Columbus sailed from Palos (Delba), Spain. He was bound for Gomera (Canary Islands) - Gomera is an Arabic word meaning ‘small firebrand’ - there he fell in love with Beatriz Bobadilla, daughter of the first captain General of the island (the family name Bobadilla is derived from the Arab Islamic name Abouabdilla). Nevertheless, the Bobadilla clan was not easy to ignore. Another Bobadilla (Francisco), later as the royal commissioner, put Columbus in chains and transferred him from Santo Domingo back to Spain (November 1500 CE). The Bobadilla family was related to Abbadid dynasty of Seville (1031 -1091 CE).

On October 12, 1492 CE, Columbus landed on a little island in the Bahamas that was called Guanahani by the natives. Renamed San Salvador by Columbus, Guanahani is derived from Mandinka and modified Arabic words. Guana (Ikhwana) means ‘brothers’ and Hani is an Arabic name. Therefore the original name of the island was ‘Hani Brothers.’

Ferdinand Columbus, the son of Christopher, wrote about the blacks seen by his father in Honduras: "The people who live farther east of Pointe Cavinas, as far as Cape Gracios a Dios, are almost black in color." At the same time in this very same region, lived a tribe of Muslim natives known as Almamy. In Mandinka and Arabic languages Almamy was the designation of "Al-Imam" or "Al-Imamu," the person who leads the Prayer, or in some cases, the chief of the community, and/or a member of the Imami Muslim community.
4. A renowned American historian and linguist Leo Weiner of Harvard University, in his book Africa and The Discovery of America (1920) wrote that Columbus was well aware of the Mandinka presence in the New World and that the West African Muslims had spread throughout the Caribbean, Central, South and North American territories, including Canada, where they were trading and intermarrying with the Iroquois and Algonquin Indians.
Geographic Explorations
1. The famous Muslim geographer and cartographer Al-Sharif Al-Idrisi (1099 - 1166 CE) wrote in his famous book ‘Nuzhat al-Mushtaq fi-Ikhtiraq al-Afaq (Excursion of the longing in crossing horizons) that a group of seafarers (from North Africa) sailed into the sea of darkness and fog (the Atlantic ocean) from Lisbon (Portugal), in order to discover what was in it and what extent were its limits. They finally reached an island that had people and cultivation.... on the fourth day; a translator spoke to them in the Arabic language.
2. The Muslim reference books mentioned a well-documented description of a journey across the sea of fog and darkness by Shaikh Zayn-eddine Ali ben Fadhel Al-Mazandarani. His journey started from Tarfay (south Morocco) during the reign of the King Abu-Yacoub Sidi Youssef (1286 - 1307 CE) sixth of the Marinid dynasty, to Green Island in the Caribbean sea in 1291 CE (690 AH). The details of his ocean journey are mentioned in Islamic references, and many Muslim scholars are aware of this recorded historical event.
3. The Muslim historian Chihab Addine Abul-Abbas Ahmad ben Fadhl Al-Umari (1300 - 1384 CE, 700 - 786 AH) described in detail the geographical explorations beyond the sea of fog and darkness of Male’s sultans in his famous book ‘Masaalik al-absaar fi Mamaalik al-amsaar (The Pathways of Sights in The Provinces of Kingdoms).
4. Sultan Mansa Kankan Musa (1312 - 1337 CE) was the world-renowned Mandinka monarch of the West African Islamic empire of Mali. While traveling to Makkah on his famous Hajj in 1324 CE, he informed the scholars of the Mamluk Bahri Sultan court (an-Nasir-eddin Muhammad III, 1309 - 1340 CE) in Cairo that his brother, Sultan Abu Bakari I (1285 - 1312 CE) had undertaken two expeditions into the Atlantic ocean. When the sultan did not return to Timbuktu from the second voyage of 1311 CE, Mansa Musa became sultan of the empire.
5. Columbus and early Spanish and Portuguese explorers were able to voyage across the Atlantic (a distance of 24,000 Kilometers) thanks to Muslim geographical and navigational information, in particular maps made by Muslim traders, including Al-Masudi (871 - 957 CE) in his book ‘Akhbar Az-Zaman’ (History of The World) which is based on material gathered in Africa and Asia. As a matter of fact, Columbus had two captains of Muslim origin during his first transatlantic voyage: Martin Alonso Pinzon was the captain of the Pinta, and his brother Vicente Yanex Pinzon was the captain of the Nina. They were wealthy, expert ship outfitters who helped organize the Columbus expedition and repaired the flagship Santa Maria. They did this at their own expense for both commercial and political reasons. The Pinzon family was related to Abuzayan Muhammad III (1362 - 66 CE), the Moroccan sultan of the Marinid dynasty (1196 - 1465 CE).
Arabic (Islamic) Inscriptions
1. Anthropologists have proven that the Mandinkas under Mansa Musa's instructions explored many parts of North America via the Mississippi and other rivers systems. At Four Corners, Arizona, writings show that they even brought elephants from Africa to the area.
2. Columbus admitted in his papers that on Monday, October 21, 1492 CE while his ship was sailing near Gibara on the northeast coast of Cuba, he saw a mosque on the top of a beautiful mountain. The ruins of mosques and minarets with inscriptions of Qur'anic verses have been discovered in Cuba, Mexico, Texas and Nevada.
3. During his second voyage, Columbus was told by the Indians of Espanola (Haiti), that Black people had been to the island before his arrival. For proof they presented Columbus with the spears of these African Muslims. These weapons were tipped with a yellow metal that the Indians called Guanine, a word of West African derivation meaning ‘gold alloy.’ Oddly enough, it is related to the Arabic world ‘Ghinaa’ which means ‘Wealth.’ Columbus brought some Guanines back to Spain and had them tested. He learned that the metal was 18 parts gold (56.25 percent), six parts silver (18.75 percent and eight parts copper (25 percent), the same ratio as the metal produced in African metal shops of Guinea.
4. In 1498 CE, on his third voyage to the New World, Columbus landed in Trinidad. Later, he sighted the South American continent, where some of his crew went ashore and found natives using colorful handkerchiefs of symmetrically woven cotton. Columbus noticed the these handkerchiefs resembled the headdresses and loincloths of Guinea in their colors, style and function. He referred to them as Almayzars. Almayzar is an Arabic word for ‘wrapper,’ ‘cover,’ ‘apron’ and or ‘skirting,’ which was the cloth the Moors (Spanish or North African Muslims) imported from West Africa (Guinea) into Morocco, Spain and Portugal.

During this voyage, Columbus was surprised that the married women wore cotton panties (bragas) and he wondered where these natives learned their modesty. Hernando Cortez, Spanish conqueror, described the dress of the Indian women as long veils and the dress of Indian men as ‘breechcloth painted in the style of Moorish draperies.’ Ferdinand Columbus called the native cotton garments ‘breechcloths of the same design and cloth as the shawls worn by the Moorish women of Granada.’ Even the similarity of the children's hammocks to those found in North Africa was uncanny.
5. Dr. Barry Fell (Harvard University) introduced in his book Saga America - 1980 solid scientific evidence supporting the arrival, centuries before Columbus, of Muslims from North and West Africa. Dr. Fell discovered the existence of Muslim schools at Valley of Fire, Allan Springs, Logomarsino, Keyhole Canyon, Washoe and Hickison Summit Pass (Nevada), Mesa Verde (Colorado), Mimbres Valley (New Mexico) and Tipper Canoe (Indiana) dating back to 700-800 CE. Engraved on rocks in the old western US, he found texts, diagrams and charts representing the last surviving fragments of what was once a system of schools - at both an elementary and higher levels. The language of instruction was North African Arabic written with old Kufic Arabic script. The subjects of instruction included writing, reading, arithmetic, religion, history, geography, mathematics, astronomy, and sea navigation.

The descendants of the Muslim visitors of North America are members of the present Iroquois, Algonquin, Anasazi, Hohokam and Olmec native people.
6. There are 565 names of places (villages, towns, cities, mountains, lakes, rivers, etc.) in USA (484) and Canada (81) which are derived from Islamic and Arabic roots. These places were originally named by the natives in pre-Columbian period. Some of these names carried holy meanings such as: Mecca (Indiana) - 720 inhabitants, Makkah Indian tribe (Washington), Medina (Idaho) - 2100, Medina (NY) - 8500, Medina and Hazen (North Dakota) - 1100 and 5000, respectively, Medina (Ohio) - 12,000, Medina (Tennessee) - 1100, Medina (Texas) - 26,000, Medina (Ontario) -1200, Mahomet (Illinois) - 3200, Mona (Utah) - 1100, Arva (Ontario) - 700, and many others. A careful study of the names of the native Indian tribes revealed that many names are derived from Arab and Islamic roots and origins, i.e. Anasazi, Apache, Arawak, Arikana, Chavin Cherokee, Cree, Hohokam, Hupa, Hopi, Makkah, Mahigan, Mohawk, Nazca, Zulu, Zuni, etc.
Based on the above historical, geographical and linguistic evidence, a call to celebrate the millennium of the Muslim arrival to the Americas (996-1996), five centuries before Columbus, has been issued to all Muslim nations and communities around the world. We hope that this call will receive complete understanding and attract enough support.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Thu Feb-22-01 05:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "See "OkayBlackourstorymonth.""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Fri Feb-23-01 04:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "gracias"
In response to Reply # 0


          

anyone got anything else. i'ma take some time out to delve into this deeper.

i mean...i'm sayin tho.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

shepoet
Charter member
81 posts
Fri Feb-23-01 06:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "i will try"
In response to Reply # 0


          

to get the email address of this chicano poet i met on tour last summer. He is the first latino of mexican descent who i have heard talk about the africans and african influence in mexico.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
cindylu
Charter member
10644 posts
Fri Feb-23-01 11:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "Africans in Mexico"
In response to Reply # 5


          

I haven't heard too many Mexicans talk about it, but the African presence in Mexico is there. Most people think that it's just on the Gulf coast in the Eastern state of Veracruz, but there are also many people of African descent in many other states, like Guerreron on the West coast. Mexicans are a mix (mestizaje) of many races, supposedly we're "la raza cosmica."

El pueblo que pierde su memoria pierde su destino.

"To be a student and not be a revolutionary is a contradiction"
-- Salvador Allende, 1973

________________________________________

https://cindylu.wordpress.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Fri Feb-23-01 11:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "?"
In response to Reply # 6


          

does anyone speak/know of their history?

i mean...i'm sayin tho.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
shepoet
Charter member
81 posts
Sun Feb-25-01 04:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "thank you"
In response to Reply # 6


          

:-)

I have yet to find any writings on it tho'....and very few will discuss it. It was implied once that, that is where the saying,
"black like a Mexican" was in reference to...the african heritage.

when reading up on the olmecs, while the documention says the sculptures left behind have african characteristics...they are quick to say that it does not mean it was african in origin but that asians from islands like the phillipines have similiar characteristics.

also, when searchin on the net for black sailors/explorers/seamen.....i find info dating back to the civil war.

nothing on the africans living on the coasts of the continent.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 05:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "go further than that"
In response to Reply # 8


          

colonial times...chesapeake bay boatmen, etc.

the best ones were slaves from senegal and other west african coasts. they'd been building and sailing for hundreds of years.

i mean...i'm sayin tho.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
shepoet
Charter member
81 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 06:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "been trying to..."
In response to Reply # 9


          

...what info you got?

I have yet to read anything from that time period.

be my nerd junkie...hook me up.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 09:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "i'll find the book"
In response to Reply # 10


          

and let u borrow. actually, gotta buy it first. very interesting text!

i mean...i'm sayin tho.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
shepoet
Charter member
81 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 02:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "thank! n/m"
In response to Reply # 11


          


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

paragon216
Charter member
5565 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 03:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "deeper than the olmecs"
In response to Reply # 0


          

the african-american (if you will) presence is deeper than the olmecs...they try to distance us from them any...either that or try to make it seem like a mystery...but black people were discovered living in the area of the louisiana purchase by the louis & clark expedition...their land was stolen for them and they have been battling in courts ever since...it is clearly written about in the louis & clark diaries...a map is even drawn of their territory...there is a disticnction made between them and the indians/native red people...

i have also studied sertima and bennet's "before the mayflower"...but they hardly touch on it..



  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

poetx
Charter member
58856 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 06:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "thor heyerdahl (sp?)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

if you dig boating, you may be aware of that dude -- european gentleman who was heavy into boating and history and crossed the atlantic in a boat he built called the Kon Tiki.

that was back in the seventies, i believe. at the time it was reported just like some ol' extreme boating mess (to my recollection, i was mad young), but i came across him later when reading on van sertima and it turns out that he was consciously trying to validate the theory that africans -- with their knowledge of boating and the very favorable currents that flow westward from the west africa, were capable of transatlantic travel.

he packed minimal food, subsisting on what he could catch from within his boat, and successfully crossed the big pond. his boat was small, so if he could make it, its very likely that the more advanced african sailors, like the phoenicians in the north, who were possessed of superior shipping and knowledge of astronomy/navigation, made the trip as well.


peace & blessings,

x.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Lobby Okay Activist Archives topic #18248 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com