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Chike
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32916 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 07:34 AM

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"dead prez guns"


  

          

What do you think of dead prez's glorication of guns in songs like their track on the latest Lyricist Lounge album ("I'm one with my gun, I love it like my 1st son...")? As far as their politics go, it does seem very in line with Black Panther ideology, but do you think it's positive that they are emphasizing this aspect of resistance in this day and age? Is it possibly a little irresponsible? From my Canadian perspective, I must admit it seems very sterotypically American. If dead prez are African first, are guns really one of the main things we need to be thinking about right now to further ourselves? They talk about the problems with the schools system in "They Schools", but what alternatives do they propose? Can you think of a line that speaks to issues of economic or technological development? Just wondering.
And remember...

"You're an African, you're an African / You need to know what's happenin'...."

(paraphrasin', y'all)


  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
symbolism?
Feb 27th 2001
1
Firearms x( !
Feb 28th 2001
8
erk!
Mar 01st 2001
13
but
Mar 06th 2001
41
RE: symbolism?
Mar 01st 2001
11
      RE: symbolism?
Mar 01st 2001
12
      RE: symbolism?
LadyShiloh4
Mar 01st 2001
14
           wht ppl at ded prez:
Mar 01st 2001
17
           I AM white...
Mar 02nd 2001
33
hmmm
jahblessyute
Feb 27th 2001
2
another post or
Feb 27th 2001
4
well....
Feb 27th 2001
3
According...
Feb 27th 2001
5
they are raising money to keep it
Feb 28th 2001
7
RE: dead prez guns
Feb 28th 2001
6
they are coming from a revolutionary mind state
Mar 01st 2001
9
      RE: they are coming from a revolutionary mind state
Mar 01st 2001
10
           RE: they are coming from a revolutionary mind state
Mar 01st 2001
21
                You know what I'm sayin'?
Mar 01st 2001
22
RE: dead prez guns
Mar 01st 2001
15
werd:
Mar 01st 2001
18
RE: dead prez guns
Mar 01st 2001
20
RE: dead prez guns
Mar 01st 2001
23
RE: dead prez guns
Mar 01st 2001
26
RE: dead prez guns
Mar 01st 2001
16
RE: dead prez guns
Mar 01st 2001
19
      RE: dead prez guns
Mar 01st 2001
24
           RE: dead prez guns
Mar 01st 2001
25
           RE: dead prez guns
Mar 01st 2001
27
                RE: dead prez guns
naijaboy
Mar 01st 2001
28
                RE: dead prez guns
Mar 02nd 2001
30
                RE: dead prez guns
Mar 02nd 2001
29
                     RE: dead prez guns
Mar 02nd 2001
31
                     RE: dead prez guns
Mar 02nd 2001
36
                     if the negative connotations could be erased....
Mar 02nd 2001
32
                          i could never bring myself...
Mar 02nd 2001
34
Sounds Like,
Marinera
Mar 02nd 2001
35
RE: dead prez guns
Mar 04th 2001
37
RE: dead prez guns
Mar 04th 2001
38
      RE: dead prez guns
yinka
Mar 04th 2001
39
           RE: dead prez guns
Mar 06th 2001
40
                RE: dead prez guns
yinka
Mar 06th 2001
42
                     RE: dead prez guns
Mar 06th 2001
43

emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 09:51 AM

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1. "symbolism?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

a tool of change, of enforcement, of power?

i can't really say. i'm a shooter and gun rights and ownership advocate, but i don't think i could ever aim at a person and pull the trigger. here in the south tho, and in many places in africa, having a firearm is a viable alternative to being killed.

it's more of a deterrence thing, like the cold war. nobody fucked with anyone else for fear of all-out war.

if we arm the black communities RESPONSIBLY, then maybe they feel those in power (whatever race or background they may be) will be less-inclined to oppress us, to deny us rights, etc.

those are just my thoughts. i have no idea what validity they hold in the real world.

i mean...i'm sayin tho.


  

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Stefan
Charter member
71 posts
Wed Feb-28-01 10:24 AM

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8. "Firearms x( !"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I'dont agree with emils thoughts about carrying a gun for selfprotection.
Talking about the cold war; what started the cold war?
In my opinion it started only because both Sovjet unions and the USA started to build guns. The mentality was (is?); if they have this capacity, we need more to feel safe. This became and evil circle, wich fourtunatly ended well. But have you ever thought about what could have happened. If someone actually pulled the trigger because they felt that they couldn't come up with enough protection.

I't lokes like emil as well has this mentality. If everyone should wear a gun, i belive alot of kills would be made only because of that someone was afraid that someone else wanted to shoot him/her.
This like the cold war is an evil circle. I hope that this as well end up kind of good.

"If you dont carry a gun, you can't use it!" -Stefan


  

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emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 09:39 AM

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13. "erk!"
In response to Reply # 8


          

i dont carry a gun on me. and it usually isnt for protection. i have tho, and sometimes thas what is needed.

then again, a lot of idiots cant shoot and would end up hurting someone that is responsible.

until u grow up as i have and do what i do, then keep assumptions on my mentality to yourself.

and i didnt justify the coldwar, just stating the obvious. it was a "war" of avoidance, tactics n shit on a game board. to me, it had more to do with respect. now whether that comes from violence or whatever else, respect is still something required inour worldview.

God made bad things happen during olden times to prove he had power, to command respect. humans do the same thing. the only peace comes through a mutual understanding of another's capacity to destroy/harm/help, etc.

i mean...i'm sayin tho.


  

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GirlChild
Charter member
55987 posts
Tue Mar-06-01 09:13 AM

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41. "but"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

in all honesty, if not a gun, then it would be something else. a knife, a shank, i mean for real it would be some other sort of weapon.

i think you need to start from the root of the problem. why do they feel they need to carry a gun? wasnt that constitutional right created for a reason? now dont get me wrong, i am not an advocate of owning weapons, but here in our society, when you have cops brutally shooting down africans cause they "thought" he was a rapist, taking a plunger to a man's rectum, profiling blacks on the highways.....i mean the list can go on. its an endless list of violence against blacks. now you are gonna tell me the right to arm myself isnt the way to go?

for real..FUCK that. i truly believe that we are at war here. its on some killed or be killed type shit. survival of the fittest. i know it seems like an extreme but take a look at the papers. its like a civil war going on, and the question is what are you gonna do? are you gonna sit there and watch, and become a victim, or are you gonna do something about it and protect yourself?


  

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makaveli
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15831 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 07:43 AM

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11. "RE: symbolism?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

yo,whatup okayplayers?

i dont know why people are always bringin up this issue. Its their art, let them express themselves the way they want to. You dont have to like it. I dont like how they shit on white people all the time, but i still love their shit.

“So back we go to these questions — friendship, character… ethics.”

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 09:22 AM

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12. "RE: symbolism?"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>yo,whatup okayplayers?
>
>i dont know why people are
>always bringin up this issue.
>Its their art, let them
>express themselves the way they
>want to. You dont have
>to like it. I dont
>like how they shit on
>white people all the time,
>but i still love their
>shit.

Are you wrong 4 not liking how they how talk about white people? No, because you have the right to have an opinion. That's the purpose of a discussion like this. I can't tell dead prez what or what not to say. I can tell them what I think of what they say.


  

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LadyShiloh4

Thu Mar-01-01 09:53 AM

  
14. "RE: symbolism?"
In response to Reply # 11


          

What would Dead Prez do if a white person showed up to one of their shows? I mean, I am white (well actually european since all my family is from Italy/Spain, but I think that is concidered white) and I love their music. They're talented and I respect talent in anyone. But do u think I would be welcome at a dead prez show?

*~Shiloh~*

"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until SHILOH come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." -Genesis 49:10

  

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emil
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10566 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 11:33 AM

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17. "wht ppl at ded prez:"
In response to Reply # 14


          

i've seen em maybe 3, 4 times. each time had waaaay more wht ppl than anything else.

they still did "i'm a african" as the europeans looked in amazement, eyes glazed over like deer in headlights.

and at the end once, they burned an american flag. not too many wht ppl liked that.

welcome? i suppose.

i mean...i'm sayin tho.


  

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thebigfunk
Charter member
10306 posts
Fri Mar-02-01 06:11 AM

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33. "I AM white..."
In response to Reply # 14


          

I'm white, and I've seen em twice... once for an opening (D'Angelo) and once on the OKP tour (same show emil is talking about I think... in DC, they burned a flag/bandana).

Some people have tried to say that DP "wouldn't slap my hand cuz I'm white" and all this nonsense. I don't know if it's true (I personally don't see them being like this)... but really, emil's right, they play to a pretty white audience half the time. Most of the people who go to DP shows are pretty cool anyway, they're not gonna give you a hard time.

Do whatever you feel comfortable with... but to answer your question, they're not gonna take out their "first son" and leave you on the ground.

By the way, they're great live.

-thebigfunk

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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jahblessyute

Tue Feb-27-01 11:01 AM

  
2. "hmmm"
In response to Reply # 0


          

With Respect,

They actually do propose solutions on "They Schools." They say that we should focus on learing outside the euro-centric box imposed by our educational system. They even go as far as to say that they are not opposed to education, as long as it is not "reaching us to build up their shit."

I will address the gun argument in another post.

Seguimos en combate.


  

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emil
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10566 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 11:56 AM

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4. "another post or"
In response to Reply # 2


          

another reply?

sorry to nitpick, but i thought this post was about guns.

*smile*

i mean...i'm sayin tho.


  

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mika_muyo
Charter member
21389 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 11:16 AM

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3. "well...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i've seen d'prez in concert and it was all peace knaamean?...hmmmm. this may be an off comment but this just comes from what i see around me and what ive known of the people around me. Any 'drug dealing nigga' and 'teenage' motha ive ever seen has never listened to dead prez. they might know 'hip hop' or 'mind sex' but they dont know their true message, and when it comes down to it more heads is thinkin about blingin rather than reperations (i think i might have spelled that wrong )
peace
MIk




****http://members.blackplanet.com/mika_mik/****
my page is always being built...

'it is never wrong to ask a question, it is always wrong to be ignorant'

'i dont think im down for that...'

It was like, I aint know whether to clap or be offended, so i clapped with a frown...- Geah

  

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Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Tue Feb-27-01 12:37 PM

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5. "According..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to my understanding they started an Afrikan-centered school.
Something that doesn't teach

"white man lies, str8 bullshit!"

PEace
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus


____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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kevb
Charter member
16580 posts
Wed Feb-28-01 06:25 AM

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7. "they are raising money to keep it"
In response to Reply # 5


          

the school in in st. pete, florida @ the uhuru house. they are trying to get it funded since the state or school board won't grant them a charter.

  

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Chike
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32916 posts
Wed Feb-28-01 05:03 AM

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6. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

No doubt these guys got a lot of positivity goin on, and the best part is how it's in real life as well as in the music. Hearing hip hop completely dedicated to Afrocentric political thought is great and rare. I just think they're sending off the wrong message with the gun thing, when there are so many other things you could encourage the youth to do. It'd be nice to hear what they have to say on the topic. Here's another question, and if no one responds to this, I'm gonna probably make it another post. DOES IT NOT DEVALUE THEIR CONSCIOUSNESS THAT THEY FREELY USE THE WORD NIGGA?

  

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kevb
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16580 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 04:21 AM

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9. "they are coming from a revolutionary mind state"
In response to Reply # 6


          

so guns or bloodshed are hand in hand with that. there was never a significant revolution without bloodshed.

now i haven't heard m1 ever say the word nigga so you can't say "they", but as far as stic.man i think it's the same reason why he uses "improper" english. now why he could be working on that, he may yet to get that out of his vocab. it is also a way to reach the folks who he is trying to reach. common was on tavis with kevin powell and dead prez in april and this topic came up. common was saying in his use of the word nigga, it may not be so p/c but it might reach a nigga who might be turned off by "african" or "my brother". you know how niggas be, "oh you on that black shit now", " i ain't no mooooslim", or "fuck that back to africa shit". so it's a way to reach some people who might not pay attention to the message from the jump.


"a nigga need food, you got to have food for ya health,
clothes, get a kit and seam for yourself, shelter a place to lay to rest when you stressed over life cause it's trife, ain't no god gonna help ya"-stic.man

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 07:33 AM

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10. "RE: they are coming from a revolutionary mind state"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

>so guns or bloodshed are hand
>in hand with that. there
>was never a significant revolution
>without bloodshed.

I see what you mean, but what type of revolution do you think they want? Are they really looking for the France/Russia/China kind?

>now i haven't heard m1 ever
>say the word nigga so
>you can't say "they", but
>as far as stic.man i
>think it's the same reason
>why he uses "improper" english.
>now why he could be
>working on that, he may
>yet to get that out
>of his vocab. it is
>also a way to reach
>the folks who he is
>trying to reach. common was
>on tavis with kevin powell
>and dead prez in april
>and this topic came up.
> common was saying in
>his use of the word
>nigga, it may not be
>so p/c but it might
>reach a nigga who might
>be turned off by "african"
>or "my brother". you know
>how niggas be, "oh you
>on that black shit now",
>" i ain't no mooooslim",
>or "fuck that back to
>africa shit". so it's a
>way to reach some people
>who might not pay attention
>to the message from the
>jump.

I think I might have caught a piece of that episode, but I certainly wish I could have seen that part. To tell you the truth, and I'm about to be a bit harsh, I think what Common said is bull. It sounds great, even better than the crap people will tell you about "reclaiming" the word, but I don't believe it. I'm Canadian, so I could be wrong, but as I understand it, many American blacks have been freely using the word 'nigga', positively and negatively since slavery days. I think the rise in the use of the word today came when hip hop became more profane (early 90's), bringing 'nigga' into more common use in the same vein as 'bitch', 'motherf--ker', etc. I think this was not a surprising turn of events as hip hop as always been rooted in the streets, but your average rapper didn't get too raw in commercial songs until the time of NWA.

So people telling me about uses of the word with thought behind it doesn't impress me. Conscious use of the word: the Last Poets. Offensively conscious use of the word: NWA. Since then: people not taking a stand. Listen to the song "Sucka N---a" by tribe Called Quest and you will hear what I feel to be the usual thought process behind the use of the word.

To conclude, here's why I think Common was fronting. When you hear him in uncensored conversation, the word will come out. He has conscious ideas, but, like stic.man (thanks 4 the correction, I never realized that), Mos Def, Talib Kweli, and many others, he hasn't taken the final step towards freeing his mind. Question: can you be an African and a nigger at the same time (mentally)?

  

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standard deviant
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1206 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 03:01 PM

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21. "RE: they are coming from a revolutionary mind state"
In response to Reply # 10


          

"Nigger hasn't always meant a man with melanin
It used to be a piece of wood that sat on the cotton gin
Masta put it there and it wouldn't move, smooth
So what does it mean to be a Nigga With an Attitude?
...
Cause it's all about a mind-tamed mind-frame
The system is a chess game where pawns are the same
...
Identifying Self is a part of being concious
If I call myself a gangsta then I'll rob you with a gat
If I call myself a brotha then you know I got your back
If I call myself oppressed then I'm clear on where I'm at
But if I call myself a nigga what the fuck is that?"

--Boots from The Coup

Or, if you prefer E-Roc:

"If I took the 'T' out would I still mean bitch?"

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 04:10 PM

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22. "You know what I'm sayin'?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Word up.

Funny part is, there's some stuff The Coup says that I don't agree with. But if you have a lot of specific beliefs, that'll always be the situation. Props to dead prez and The Coup for being about uplifting the race.

  

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DPfan4life
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179 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 10:21 AM

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15. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 0


          

first off, its obvious who dp's main target audience is, and its not white people, you have 2 realize DP's come from the gutter, the hood, the ghetto, the projects or whatever u wanna call it. its funny all these so called postitive suburbanite for-the-cause activist that wanna question and dictate what these brothaz say on record but dont know what it's like @ all 2 be in their situations...i know what u are trying 2 imply and is what people try 2 imply ALL the time about dp's is that they are hypocritical which is a natural reaction 2 peeps when they hear the album which is drenched in truth and reality with no holding back, which is why i like em...but lets say they didnt carry guns 4 the sake of them thinken that peeps would think they are hypocrites? what would they defend themselves with? bamboo shoots? knives? tree branches?? these brothaz come from the ghetto not some native american named suburban neighborhood like most of the okayplayers up on this.....

"cuz everybody knows you gotta watch yourself around borderline psycho's".....dp's

"...some of us ever share the views of the canaanites tryen 2 be white but they gon lose in this game of life so dead that i tie my dread back and scheme put a star on my red black and green"-dp'z

"...the white house is the rock house uncle sam the pusher man.."dp'z

"...around the world we stay stuck in capsules, shackled and crackers got homes like castles...dp'z

white people only make up 8% of the world

"the differences are like pepsi and coke but both of them are bad for you"-M1 of dead prez on the democrat republican presidential race

Big Boi freestyles, I don't," Dre admits. "Because I think too much. But I'll write one verse that'll crush your whole album."

"these are the times that try a nigga soul population control we waisten time chasen gold they after more than your mind they want your nation as a whole its time 2 take off the blindfold"-Dead Prez

  

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emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 11:35 AM

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18. "werd:"
In response to Reply # 15


          

ha, this bamma said "bamboo shoots".

i agree; suburbanites n such that've never been faced with hardship.

i mean...i'm sayin tho.


  

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Chike
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32916 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 12:29 PM

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20. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>first off, its obvious who dp's
>main target audience is, and
>its not white people, you
>have 2 realize DP's come
>from the gutter, the hood,
>the ghetto, the projects or
>whatever u wanna call it.
>its funny all these so
>called postitive suburbanite for-the-cause activist
>that wanna question and dictate
>what these brothaz say on
>record but dont know what
>it's like @ all 2
>be in their situations...i know
>what u are trying 2
>imply and is what people
>try 2 imply ALL the
>time about dp's is that
>they are hypocritical which is
>a natural reaction 2 peeps
>when they hear the album
>which is drenched in truth
>and reality with no holding
>back, which is why i
>like em...but lets say they
>didnt carry guns 4 the
>sake of them thinken that
>peeps would think they are
>hypocrites? what would they defend
>themselves with? bamboo shoots? knives?
> tree branches?? these brothaz
>come from the ghetto not
>some native american named suburban
>neighborhood like most of the
>okayplayers up on this.....

Remember, this is not about dictating what people can or cannot say. If you think it is, you must think dp is guilty of the same things on songs like "Hip Hop". But you don't, cuz you know dp is not about censorship, they're about freedom of speech. Meaning if they want to comment on something they think is negative in rap, the music that they love, it's their right to do so. Make the connection to you and me.

I'm not sure hypocritical is how I was trying to describe them. If I wanted to call them that, i would refer to the 'nigga' discussion that's also going on in this thread. But I wouldn't wanna get into name-calling like that because (1) these are artists I really respect and (2) you could say that about almost anyone. Any of the musicians we criticize are human and not perfect, just like us. But the question is, what do you think of what they have to say? They put the message out, we as listeners react based on our feelings and values. Obviously their music has touched you in a strong way (hence your nickname). Me too.

But I just don't think it's cool to treat your gun like your first son. I'm naive, I guess. In a situation when you're threatened, you protect yourself, right? But is that all there is to it?


  

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never2
Charter member
64 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 04:29 PM

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23. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 15


          

This is all very thought provoking, but I didn t know that white folks are only 8 percent of the world s population, thanks for that info. I always knew that there were a bunch of yellow and Black people out there (China, Africa has huge populations), but I didn t know that white folks were only 8 percent, damn, it that Europe and American and Aus., or does that include Hispanic whites as well? It is a shame they still control all of colored (Asians, Blacks, and Latinos) mindset and viewpoints, we all must break free of that.......peace

  

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kevb
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16580 posts
Thu Mar-01-01 07:51 PM

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26. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 15


          

>
>"...around the world we stay stuck
>in capsules, shackled and crackers
>got homes like castles...dp'z
>


that's one of my favorite quotes from stic.

"the telivision has eyes, the modern religion is lies, plotting on collision worldwide, watch the hour glass, the power clash over currency, for world supremacy, borroughs are burned down delibrately"- stic.man


"whyma be stingy when i can share, whyma be hateful if i can care, why would hate my own, forsake my own, why would i fuck around and give the jake my chrome"-stic.man

"life is a series of serious choices, theories are formed from experience neva mysterious forces, various courses of life can lead to failure, too much of anything is a trap"-stic.man

"i don't hate playas, i hate the mayors, and the police commisioner, governors and senators, turning my people into dope fiends and prisoners, i rock for the folks that's lock to break that lock, and feel good when i hear jake got shot"-stic.man

  

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Brooklynite
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Thu Mar-01-01 10:48 AM

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16. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'd like to answer the question that someone posed earlier about , can you be an African and a nigger/nigga at the same time. Yes, i think that depending on the context in which it is used, yes you can be an African and a nigga at the same time.
I'm not even gonna delve too deep into the whole "n" word issue cause we'd go back and forth forever without reaching a conclusion.
Maybe Common was frontin when he was on Tavis and gave the answer he gave, so he could sound as though there was some legitimate reason as to why he used the word nigga. My whole thing is this, as a black female in this country I know the difference between my people's sayin "What up my nigga, how you ?" as opposed to someone saying the word "nigga" with malicious intent. And truth be told, to a degree Common is right, sometimes when i hear someone continually calling me "sista" and all that jazz I automatically think they're gonna be on some far fethced "Back to Africa militant fake ass Black Panther" type shit. So to put it simply, when in Rome speak as the Romans do. You have to use whatever conduit you have to use to get people to listen and not just hear you.

One
Brook

((((( The Sig )))))
One year as a resident, deep in sentiment, they shout out GO BROOKLYN!! They representin it - Dante Smith (Brook doesn't do stage names).

I do this for the borough - me (eff that, Cam bit my steeze).

I'M A GIRL GOT DAMN !!! (now

  

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Chike
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Thu Mar-01-01 12:10 PM

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19. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

>So to put it simply, when
>in Rome speak as the
>Romans do. You have to
>use whatever conduit you have
>to use to get people
>to listen and not just
>hear you.

Thanks 4 your comment on my question. So does this last part mean you do believe him using the word 'nigga' is part of a plan to reach people on their level? What if he never used that word, ever? Do you think people might consider him stuck up or fake or whatever?

What I'm saying is, it's not necessary. Is it evil? That's another discussion, but making the conscious choice not to use the word is not going to hurt your message, in my opinion. No old school rap song sounds bad just because it doesn't need to be heavily censored. That's one thing that bugs me; certain rappers that were around before and kept the word out their mouth use it all the time now. About the evil question? To me, consciously making the choice to put the word in a rhyme in a non-ironic way, when you don't (or didn't until now) use the word in your daily conversation is just... anti-yourself. (Don't hate yourself, black people).

If I was around people who use the word on the regular, I wouldn't get all uptight and start preaching. But I still have my opinion. There was a post some time ago about this word and its use by white people. Are you cool with that? Are you desensitized to that word droppin out anybody of any colour's mouth yet? If not, get used to it. Cuz that's where hip hop is taking the world. Who am I to tell somebody else he or she is not allowed to rhyme along with Black Thought or B.G. (check the contrast) while they're listening to their favourite song?

No point in me despairing, the way many elders do as they look at the youth. But "I gotta hold on to my pride, my pride. I'm gonna stick, I'm gonna stick, stick to my guns..." (ha! guns. you like how i'm tying this in to the original topic)



  

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Abbstrack
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24. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 19


          

Bravo!!!!! I am glad to see some real thought provoking comments across the board here. This is the type of Dialogue that i dig. I would just like to add that, first, on the use of the word nigga....I dont know where i stand in the end...because im on the fence...i do believe in "reclaiming the word"...though many call that a weak attempt to justify the use....I believe that words are just that...words....whether they come from Black people...white people...yellow people...we as people are far too advanced to be squabbling over words.. I believe that true power belongs to he/she that can accept all of these words, without taking offense...the same way we take ownership over fuck, shit, damn, we should take ownership over the word nigga...we know of its disgusting meaning in the past, but it is 2001, and i believe it is now a testament to our survival. Weve taken the worst and most derogative thing that THEY had against us, and flipped it on them. How strong are we? No weapon formed against us shall prosper. and i know this is the age old defense, but, lets not forget, the word Nigga does not mean black, and quite frankly, we have taken plenty other words and transformed them to mean something that we can embrace (i.e. dope, fresh, hype, phat)...we are our own people, and we should hold ourselves to our standards, no one elses...

now...the gun issue....neva mind...im undecided on that issue...hmmm...what else did i notice while reading the posts...oh yeah, white people at DP shows, i went to the OKP tour in NYC, and it was filled with white people....they were nodding and jumping to DP's as if they were just any other rap group...as for feeling welcome, the vibe i got was that a lot of people didnt know them, or really know what they are about, and those that do, are trying to identify with the culture so why would they be in objectivity....i think that the young white kids today (okayplayers and others) are somehow emphasizing with the struggle of black people, and somehow are relating our lifelong struggle, our age-old struggle, to their own personal struggles, (i.e. being different than their parents,)...i know that their struggles pale in comparison to that of us as Africans in america, but i think this is how they relate, and this is why they can listen to a dead prez without being in objection...aight...ive said enough...one love, to Everybody, especially my "Brothers and Sisters" out there..oh yeah, another thing, why does saying that (above) have to mean or lead someone to believe that someone is on some "fake black panther shit"...again, take ownership...Does anybody wanna start an African school in Jer Z...e me @ abbstrack@yahoo.com , or if you just wanna do something positive for our people in General. let me know


One Love

"Old Pirates yes the rob I, sold I to the merchant ship"

-Robert Nesta Marley

"Who the cap fit, let them wear it"

-Bob Marley

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

  

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standard deviant
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Thu Mar-01-01 05:11 PM

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25. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 24


          

just waiting for someone to argue "language is reality"...

this should be fun }>

  

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Chike
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Thu Mar-01-01 08:14 PM

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27. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

>Bravo!!!!! I am glad to see
>some real thought provoking comments
>across the board here.
>This is the type of
>Dialogue that i dig.
>I would just like to
>add that, first, on the
>use of the word nigga....I
>dont know where i stand
>in the end...because im on
>the fence...i do believe in
>"reclaiming the word"...though many call
>that a weak attempt to
>justify the use....I believe that
>words are just that...words....whether they
>come from Black people...white people...yellow
>people...we as people are far
>too advanced to be squabbling
>over words.. I believe
>that true power belongs to
>he/she that can accept all
>of these words, without taking
>offense...the same way we take
>ownership over fuck, shit, damn,
>we should take ownership over
>the word nigga...we know of
>its disgusting meaning in the
>past, but it is 2001,
>and i believe it is
>now a testament to our
>survival. Weve taken the worst
>and most derogative thing that
>THEY had against us, and
>flipped it on them. How
>strong are we? No
>weapon formed against us shall
>prosper. and i know this
>is the age old defense,
>but, lets not forget, the
>word Nigga does not mean
>black, and quite frankly, we
>have taken plenty other words
>and transformed them to mean
>something that we can embrace
>(i.e. dope, fresh, hype, phat)...we
>are our own people, and
>we should hold ourselves to
>our standards, no one elses...

Thank you for your message. Though I usually find the "reclaiming the word" argument worse than weak, you have made a very intelligent and convincing comment. I was going to ask about the white people saying it thing again, but you seem to have taken even that into account.

I guess the reason I would still beg to differ is that, though we've come so far, we've still got so far to go mentally, as I'm sure you would agree (considering your interest in Afrocentic schooling). I think the use of this word is a reflection of HOW FAR WE HAVE TO GO. If you'll notice, people didn't start "reclaiming" the word during the conscious movement in rap heralded by people like PE. It happened around the time of NWA, the beginning of the gangsta age, when the negative aspects of black reality began to be emphasized and made prominent. I think you see where I'm going with this.

dp fans, note which two groups I mentioned and think about "I'm An African"...





  

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naijaboy

Thu Mar-01-01 09:27 PM

  
28. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 27


          

Chike, I got's to ask you this question - are you Nigerian?
Coz you sure sound like one. Nice post though.

I feel the same way bout the N word. But even then, I don't really mind when people I consider fam use it with me. We all know we're playing around with the word (you know, playing the part of gangsta) so we just laugh it off. I do agree that it shows some lack of self-respect though. I personally think that reclaiming the word arguement is wack! Just my thoughts.

Out,
N.

  

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Chike
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Fri Mar-02-01 04:18 AM

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30. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>Chike, I got's to ask you
>this question - are you
>Nigerian?
>Coz you sure sound like one.
>Nice post though.

Thanks. You are probably from Nigeria or W. Africa if you know enough to ask me that, but I'm afraid I'm not. I was born here in Canada, my mom is from Guyana, and my dad is from Dominica, an small island in the Caribbean (NOT the Dominican Republic). My parents gave all of us (me+bro+sis) African names: my brother's name is Adom (Akan for 'Help from God') and my sister's name is Asha (Swahili for 'Life'). My name is Ibo for 'Power of God' (for the benefit of others reading this).

And in case anybody's been pronouncing it to rhyme with 'bike', it's CHEE-Kay.

"I had a book of African names, in case our minds change..."
- Common, "Retrospect 4 Life"



  

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Abbstrack
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Fri Mar-02-01 03:57 AM

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29. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 27


          

>I guess the reason I would
>still beg to differ is
>that, though we've come so
>far, we've still got so
>far to go mentally, as
>I'm sure you would agree
>(considering your interest in Afrocentic
>schooling). I think the
>use of this word is
>a reflection of HOW FAR
>WE HAVE TO GO.
>If you'll notice, people didn't
>start "reclaiming" the word during
>the conscious movement in rap
>heralded by people like PE.
> It happened around the
>time of NWA, the beginning
>of the gangsta age, when
>the negative aspects of black
>reality began to be emphasized
>and made prominent. I
>think you see where I'm
>going with this.
>
>dp fans, note which two groups
>I mentioned and think about
>"I'm An African"...
>
>

I too would not mind if we did away the word, but since thats not likely, I would rather erase the negative connotations with the word, and transcend it beyond what THEY would have us to believe it means...but i do see where you are going with this...



One Love

"Old Pirates yes the rob I, sold I to the merchant ship"

-Robert Nesta Marley

"Who the cap fit, let them wear it"

-Bob Marley

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

  

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Chike
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32916 posts
Fri Mar-02-01 04:56 AM

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31. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

>I too would not mind if
>we did away the word,
>but since thats not likely,
>I would rather erase the
>negative connotations with the word,
>and transcend it beyond what
>THEY would have us to
>believe it means...but i do
>see where you are going
>with this...
>
>One Love

Once again, convincing, that-makes-alotta-sense argument. Feel proud: no artist or anyone else for that matter has ever made me consider the other side of this debate this seriously before. So forgive me if this reply seems like arguing for the heck of it.

The average person does not use the word in the subversive manner you described. The average person could care less about transcending what the Man thinks in terms of the language they use on an everyday basis with their friends. But it's worse than that. Think of any song in which someone referred to themself as a 'nigga4life' (Redman, Ja Rule, many others). Each time, what does this title entail? I can think of no instance where the positive aspects of black culture led someone to proclaim proudly "I'm a nigga for life!"

Here's my point: you're right, the chances of the word disappearing are slim. But while others claim a word whose history and PRESENT represent regression, anyone who chooses to abstain is demonstrating (1) their values and strength of character and (2) their recognition that a white kid rollin in his Lexus shoutin "Whassup NIGGA" is not part of how they would like to see society change. To all: do you call women bitches and hos in everyday conversation? Not trying to judge if you do, but if you don't, why is that? A lot of women use those words; isn't it time we get past the negative aspects of language? Let me hear you say it loud: "Hell no!" Stand tall if you would rather use language that uprades (ie. woman - sister - queen - see the progression) instead of degrades.

Peace.

P.S. To refer back to people saying certain ways of talking make you sound fake, pretentious, etc., that is true to a certain extent. Different situations call for different terminologies. I probably would use 'queen' mainly for romantic or poetic value. But I promise myself, even if I might slip up and say stuff I shouldn't in my head, to stay around the middle of the scale (girl, honey) in my speech rather than descend. Cuz I love my momma!


  

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Abbstrack
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Fri Mar-02-01 01:46 PM

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36. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 31


          



>
>The average person does not use
>the word in the subversive
>manner you described. The
>average person could care less
>about transcending what the Man
>thinks in terms of the
>language they use on an
>everyday basis with their friends.
> But it's worse than
>that. Think of any
>song in which someone referred
>to themself as a 'nigga4life'
>(Redman, Ja Rule, many others).
> Each time, what does
>this title entail? I
>can think of no instance
>where the positive aspects of
>black culture led someone to
>proclaim proudly "I'm a nigga
>for life!"
>

Interesting Counter point....in that sense...i would agree that the average person who uses the word does not use it in the manner I described, and i wont argue for the sake of arguing... I like your style...was that the Crane technique?...as for the gun issue...im still undecided...but when i do get off the fence on one side or the other...you'll see

Darfur Sucks! Free Paris (Hilton)! - Don Cheadle

www.abdulsmith.com

  

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bluetiger
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Fri Mar-02-01 06:05 AM

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32. "if the negative connotations could be erased...."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

and the meaning transcended, are you sure you want pale faces saying it at all (if the above conditions were met, the assumption would be that the term could be used by Europeans in familiar terms)?

Thanks for reading. I love you.

"What are you but my reflection, who am I to judge or strike you down?" - MJK

In Rotation:
Tool - Aenema
Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
Lee Perry - Return Of Wax
Jay Dee - Welcome To Detroit
Pink Floyd - The Wall
Lonnie Liston Smith - Cosmic Funk

don't be fkn evil.

  

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thebigfunk
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Fri Mar-02-01 06:17 AM

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34. "i could never bring myself..."
In response to Reply # 32


          

I could never bring myself to use the word... (being white)

No matter what the circumstances, no matter how much has changed... it just plain wouldn't be right.

-thebigfunk

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

  

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Marinera

Fri Mar-02-01 12:24 PM

  
35. "Sounds Like,"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"I'm one with my gun,
>I love it like my
>1st son,

This reminds me of that scene in Stanley Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket. Before the Marines go to bed in basic training they say a prayer: "My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless."

>From my
>Canadian perspective, I must admit
>it seems very sterotypically American.

Yeah, those guys and their guns.

Just thought I'd throw that in there . . .

Giving you true calcio since 1986

"T-Dot drinkin Bakardi, T-Dot rockin the party . . . " - Kardinal Offishall (I love that joint)

AIM: Marinera81
MAIL: jonah_b27@hotmail.com

Check out http://www.greatergood.com Help end world hunger, save the rainforest, help stop AIDS in Africa, help children survive in 3rd world countries, stop breast cancer, and give treatment to landmine victims in less than a minute a day! FOR FREE! NO FORMS TO FILL OUT AND NO STRINGS! REALLY!!!

  

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POWER 550
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Sun Mar-04-01 07:29 AM

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37. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I mean they're not talking about killing people for anal reasons like these cats on the strips right now. Thier talking about keeping it close to that black panther mentality. I don't see anything wrong with thier lyrics on guns or whatever, but I do think they should watch carefully what they say and stay away from the cameras more often. Because if they don't they will get caught up in the light of everyone seeing them talking about old " black power shit" and nobody will want to here them. They would start to look commercial. Dead Prez their socialist and I respect them. And, the hook in that song of what you speak of makes perfect sense. Check it, you have people that are ignorant to things and that are hard of learning but are willing to try. You can let those people by or try to guide them. But,when you have a person that just straight doesn't care and has no intention to listen to reason or change. If they don't and all they want to do is the opposite of what you trying to and and your ancestors being fighting for. Then, you gonna take em out.

GOD first...and the trumpet is blown

dbledeucecake(aim...hit me)
http://www.myspace.com/poetry2soul

-December is Nina Simone month, look out for it!!!

  

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Chike
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Sun Mar-04-01 01:36 PM

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38. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Thanks 4 your comment. So you don't think talking about adoring guns is bad as long as you don't plan to use them in a "bad" way?

  

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yinka

Sun Mar-04-01 02:39 PM

  
39. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 38


          

>Thanks 4 your comment. So
>you don't think talking about
>adoring guns is bad as
>long as you don't plan
>to use them in a
>"bad" way?

there is such thing as context and should be observed any time you try to analyze anything. a gun, a school, a son. all could have 10, 15 or more meanings/uses (good & bad) depending on the needs and CONTEXT of the situation.

it's never so simple, but it really ain't that complicated.


  

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Chike
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Tue Mar-06-01 09:03 AM

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40. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

>there is such thing as context
>and should be observed any
>time you try to analyze
>anything. a gun, a
>school, a son. all
>could have 10, 15 or
>more meanings/uses (good & bad)
>depending on the needs and
>CONTEXT of the situation.
>
>it's never so simple, but it
>really ain't that complicated.

True words. I think I'm about to give in on this whole point (though anyone who wants to argue the 'nigga' point is welcome to bring it on). Still, even if I can respect other gun references, I'll always be troubled the "Sharp Shooters" chorus. "... it makes sure the jakes respect me." Man, you shoot a cop, you won't be getting too much respect from the justice system, that's for damn sure. They kill brothers holding wallets or reaching for chicken wings; how you think they gonna react to you pulling out a piece? My advice: Know your rights.



  

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yinka

Tue Mar-06-01 11:07 AM

  
42. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 40


          

Still,
>even if I can respect
>other gun references, I'll always
>be troubled the "Sharp Shooters"
>chorus. "... it makes
>sure the jakes respect me."
> Man, you shoot a
>cop, you won't be getting
>too much respect from the
>justice system, that's for damn
>sure. They kill brothers
>holding wallets or reaching for
>chicken wings; how you think
>they gonna react to you
>pulling out a piece?
>My advice: Know your rights.
>

there's definitely something to what you're saying. i heard 'sharp shooters' too and thought almost everything could have been better said. something about that line seems a bit premature, even though i believe that in the end it is a true statement. i think the point is to say that if the police is an army in the interest of those who wish to oppress, then we will have to form armies as well to defend and free ourselves. can't do that without weapons and we'll have to understand what guns are really about in order to be cool with having an army. many of us walking around going 'peace' completely ignoring what will have to happen to actually have some of that.

one of the problems may be trying to fit large concepts into the space of a 3-5 minute song that has to reach masses of people at different levels. not an easy task. i think that people who want to analyze their music should also want to analyze the whole of what dead prez is and what they are trying to do. they claim to speak from the point of view of the slave, the hunted, the exploited. i think that this is how their music, message and work should be approached.



  

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Chike
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Tue Mar-06-01 04:45 PM

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43. "RE: dead prez guns"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

Damn good points, my friend, damn good. If anyone ever decides to do some scholarly work exploring the music of dead prez, they should quote you near the beginning. For real.

  

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