Hey...I bet a LOT of y'all didn't know this, but THE BIBLE IS TRUE!

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html

I think most of you will enjoy reading this...my particular favorite is how the bible is scientifically accurate (remember, pi is exactly equal to 3...no more, no less).

"REAL RECOGNIZE REAL, and even more than that, the fake, they REALLY REALLY recognize REAL!" -BlackThought

"STAY BLACK,STAY BLACK,STAY BLACK,STAY BLACK" -Mos Def

i'm going to vomit...

more importantly, Boodah, please lock this thread or delete it before Solarus sees this.

(((((PEACE)))))

Nuwb or "blackness" is supreme balance before the chaos was introduced. It was a state of sound, right reasoning. That darkness was triple darkness, which is what you would call the absence of consciousness, or the state of being awoke. In actuality, the dream state is more real and peaceful than the chaos you meet once you are awake. A form of spiritual darkness responsible for the spark that turned on the light that is the life and intellect of all who breathe and think.
When the light is turned on again, the chaos begins. The differentiation begins. The separation begins. The rights and the wrongs, the goodness and the badness; the supreme balance is broken and the ego begins to verse the "I."

"REAL RECOGNIZE REAL, and even more than that, the fake, they REALLY REALLY recognize REAL!" -BlackThought

"STAY BLACK,STAY BLACK,STAY BLACK,STAY BLACK" -Mos Def

that was meant to be humorous, that article was just too much. and considering Solarus's viewpoints and goals, it's gonna be a shame what happens..


Nuwb or "blackness" is supreme balance before the chaos was introduced. It was a state of sound, right reasoning. That darkness was triple darkness, which is what you would call the absence of consciousness, or the state of being awoke. In actuality, the dream state is more real and peaceful than the chaos you meet once you are awake. A form of spiritual darkness responsible for the spark that turned on the light that is the life and intellect of all who breathe and think.
When the light is turned on again, the chaos begins. The differentiation begins. The separation begins. The rights and the wrongs, the goodness and the badness; the supreme balance is broken and the ego begins to verse the "I."

but Utamorho (or however you spell it) tell me....when you kiss Solaris's ass, do you toss his salad as well?

Instead of simply wait for your hero to come, try responding sometime.

_________________________
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
http://twitter.com/KMBReferee
http://www.ask.fm/KMBReferee

I ain't trying to get into this, cause your beef is your beef...

SO

please stop bringing me into this. I would suggest doing this by KEEPING your beef your beef. If you have something to say to him (not related to the post), SEND HIM SOME MAIL.

The Bible is a joke, and so is everybody who believes it to be true.

So it's cool to bash people's beliefs these days, huh? Let me hear you explain why Moslems are idiots. I'd also like you to tell me why atheists have only half a brain.

Jesus loves you.

Takes one to know one...

i assume u must be well informed and very educated when it comes to religion to be talking such massive shit

-------------------------
love what you do
and do what you love

If you're talking to me, you must not understand my reply ("Let me hear you explain..."). I'm saying the guy who said the Bible is a joke obviously thinks it's fun to bash people's religions, so I'd like to hear him talk crap about religions other than Christianity. He wouldn't do that though, because he knows people would call him a bigot. SO BASICALLY I'M SAYING DON'T BE A BIGOT...

its been a while and i 4got who my reply was for exactly but from reading your reply i dont think it was you - peace

-------------------------
love what you do
and do what you love

>The Bible is a joke, and
>so is everybody who believes
>it to be true.

I'm not even Christian and I found that offensive. Watch your damn mouth, please.

---
http://whatisay.org

one question. why wouldnt you believe the bible or in god? what have you got to lose? i dont think that anyone know for sure whatll happen in the afterlife but why souldnt you believe in the words of the bible? i mean its all about faith right>?
much respect
the grey race mentality
"prayin never hurt anybody"-chris senn

like honestly, does this change your beliefs? is this gonna change others belief?

my point is, people are gonna believe whatever they want to believe, plain and simple, the more adamant you are about their beliefs being wrong, the more adament they are gonna be to find faults in your beliefs=war

thus, what have we learned here? who really gives a shit what others believe in, believe in yourself, cause in the end, what others believe in really aint gonna help your personal situation.

I'm not attacking those who base their faith in the bible...I'm posting a page whose logic is laughable...my point is humor at the webpage's expense...you believe whatever you like.

Hotep

Considering the number hours I've spent typing and talking on this very subject I do not feel the necessity to say anything about that pitiful web page. However I woul dbe interested in hearing an Islamic perspective (abduhu) since this was written:

"There is no other book, ancient or modern, like this. The vague, and usually erroneous, prophecies of people like Jeanne Dixon, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and others like them are not in the same category at all, and neither are other religious books such as the KORAN, the Confucian Analects, and similar religious writings. Only the Bible manifests this remarkable prophetic evidence, and it does so on such a tremendous scale as to render completely absurd any explanation other than divine revelation."

PEAce
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

>Hotep
>
>Considering the number hours I've spent
>typing and talking on this
>very subject I do not
>feel the necessity to say
>anything about that pitiful web
>page. However I woul
>dbe interested in hearing an
>Islamic perspective (abduhu) since this
>was written:
>
>"There is no other book, ancient
>or modern, like this. The
>vague, and usually erroneous, prophecies
>of people like Jeanne Dixon,
>Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and others
>like them are not in
>the same category at all,
>and neither are other religious
>books such as the KORAN,
>the Confucian Analects, and similar
>religious writings. Only the Bible
>manifests this remarkable prophetic evidence,
>and it does so on
>such a tremendous scale as
>to render completely absurd any
>explanation other than divine revelation."

I would also be interested in hearing an Islamic perspective. In finding this page laughable and pitiful, it would seem you all are denying the attempted objectivity of the article and seeing instead its underlying dogmatic principles. Why then would you want to hear a Islamic perspective, one that believes that not only is the Qu'ran inspired, it is actually written by Allah himself? This is as justifiable by non-faith-based verification as anything written on the Christian page; therefore, in the prejudiced view of the people on this thread, just as laughable.

Examine your hearts.

because the authors' found it necessary to validate the Bible by comparing to and negating the legitimacy of other sacred texts. That is what I find laughable, especially when mentioning the "Confucian Analects." It is only in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions where one finds the necessity of "infallible scriptures" whereas other traditions put little or NO importance in the holy "infallibilty" of written texts, especially Confucianism. For the authors to compare to Confucian Analects (a text no where near in importance to the Chinese as the Bible is to Christians) shows the depths of depravity that is needed to be taken in order to legitimize their already unstable faith in the Bible.

Pitiful but Typical.

PEace
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

peace, interestingly enough the Koran and Bible mirror each other in so many ways I can't understand why people do not get it. From my understanding, the Koran became the word once the Bible was taken by the Europeans and distorted (you know like they did everything else, blues, rock,jazz, and now hip-hop. Even activism, we haven't even gotten over this racial mindstate and existence and it has been replaced (on a larger scale only) by gay activism, but I guess there is room for it all... please no violent responses thank you...) The thing is Jesus (Isa/Esa) is mentioned in the Koran in the same breath as the Bible, as are all of the prophets and stories... it is peoples interpretation that comes into fault. (Disclaimer 2: please, no responses like "Christ is Lord and that's that" bs this isn't a attack on Christianity just my view, all intelligent information is welcomed)... Christians choose to see Christ as the son of God, yet constantly call him lord which to me makes no sense, fusing him as the sun and God, yet different sects (Catholicism) chooses to call their Priests 'Father' in the sense that he is 'closer' to God than they, and allows him to call them Son/Sun even tho' he, born into a Hebrew houshold, denounced their beliefs and lived life as a Muslim (before the ignorance starts, A, let go of your slave owner's logic and defenses, B, living life as a Muslim only means to worship God (Allah) directly, no middle man intervention)... makes no sense, and while most Christians view Egyptian practices as pagan, they still end their prayers with Amen, as in AmenRA where it comes from... still makes no sense to me... Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, they weren't fools or liars, perhaps their source of inspiration might have been different I'm not sure (Jin/Spirits/etc.)... It is only the people that seperate these great books, one denouncing the others beliefs when it just doesn't add up. Divide and conquer has been the Euro way to success, and it is still working... while I may not agree with the ideology of my Christian brothers and sisters, they are still my brothers and sisters... yes, I think it is foolish to have the same religion as the people who enslaved you, but that is just my opinion...
for anyone to call the Bible, stupid or foolish, or the Koran,the Haddif, the Torah, the Kaballah, keep in mind, the one thing all these books talk about is God's intervention and miracles... after everything we have been through as a people (slavery/ genocide/Aids/sell out niggas (sly smurk)/the Roots Live Album (hahaha sorry)) isn't it a miracle that we are even here??? Thus proving these works correct in some regard...

>peace, interestingly enough the Koran and
>Bible mirror each other in
>so many ways I can't
>understand why people do not
>get it.

True, there is similarity between the two holy books (certain events are described in both, etc.). Of course, you have let this fact lead you to a slip in logic...

>From my
>understanding, the Koran became the
>word once the Bible was
>taken by the Europeans and
>distorted (you know like they
>did everything else, blues, rock,jazz,
>and now hip-hop. Even
>activism, we haven't even gotten
>over this racial mindstate and
>existence and it has been
>replaced (on a larger scale
>only) by gay activism, but
>I guess there is room
>for it all... please no
>violent responses thank you...) The
>thing is Jesus (Isa/Esa) is
>mentioned in the Koran in
>the same breath as the
>Bible, as are all of
>the prophets and stories... it
>is peoples interpretation that comes
>into fault. (Disclaimer 2: please,
>no responses like "Christ is
>Lord and that's that" bs
>this isn't a attack on
>Christianity just my view, all
>intelligent information is welcomed)...

It's one thing to choose to accept the Qu'ran's description of Jesus as a prophet. It's another to misrepresent the Bible as saying the same thing, simply misinterpreted by the millions of people who see it as the inspired Word of God. Bottom line: the New Testament identifies Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of God, both God and man in one, the Saviour who died and rose again and was slain to save the world (no prophet can cleanse humanity of its sins - if someone says they can, they are crazy, a liar, or...).

>Christians
>choose to see Christ as
>the son of God, yet
>constantly call him lord which
>to me makes no sense,
>fusing him as the sun
>and God, yet different sects
>(Catholicism) chooses to call their
>Priests 'Father' in the sense
>that he is 'closer' to
>God than they, and allows
>him to call them Son/Sun
>even tho' he, born into
>a Hebrew houshold, denounced their
>beliefs and lived life as
>a Muslim (before the ignorance
>starts, A, let go of
>your slave owner's logic and
>defenses, B, living life as
>a Muslim only means to
>worship God (Allah) directly, no
>middle man intervention)... makes no
>sense, and while most Christians
>view Egyptian practices as pagan,
>they still end their prayers
>with Amen, as in AmenRA
>where it comes from...

First, you get into some foolish semantics - any true Christian accepts Christ as Lord, and that's all you need to know. From there you can explore the concept of God in 3 persons (Father, Son, Holy Ghost). I'm not Catholic, but to say that priests are treated as higher than Jesus is offensive and ignorant. Next, remember that your story of Jesus only holds true if one accepts the Qu'ran as divine. Even with your clarification of what it means to be a Muslim, the biblical story of Jesus goes beyond that - it holds Jesus to be the Son of God. Interesting, though, if your definition of who is a Muslim is strictly understood, then any practicing Protestant person is one. I think you simplified a little too much. Lastly, I can't remember what language the word 'amen' actually comes from, but I'm pretty sure it's not Kemetic. Even if it was, its meaning as used by Christians ("so be it") in no way acknowledges the Sun as God. Rather, you can check out the beginning of Genesis for the Judeo-Christian take on solar origins. By the way, don't Muslims (who hold that there is no god but Allah) say "Amin"? Not a coincidence, my friend.

>still
>makes no sense to me...
>Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, they weren't
>fools or liars, perhaps their
>source of inspiration might have
>been different I'm not sure
>(Jin/Spirits/etc.)... It is only the
>people that seperate these great
>books, one denouncing the others
>beliefs when it just doesn't
>add up. Divide and
>conquer has been the Euro
>way to success, and it
>is still working... while I
>may not agree with the
>ideology of my Christian brothers
>and sisters, they are still
>my brothers and sisters... yes,
>I think it is foolish
>to have the same religion
>as the people who enslaved
>you, but that is just
>my opinion...

Can someone explain to me why this is not THE worst defence of Islam as the Black man's religion? Three words: Arab slave trade. The history of Islam as a violently-converting religion comes a lot quicker after its conception than that of Christianity.

>for anyone to call the Bible,
>stupid or foolish, or the
>Koran,the Haddif, the Torah, the
>Kaballah, keep in mind, the
>one thing all these books
>talk about is God's intervention
>and miracles... after everything we
>have been through as a
>people (slavery/ genocide/Aids/sell out niggas
>(sly smurk)/the Roots Live Album
>(hahaha sorry)) isn't it a
>miracle that we are even
>here??? Thus proving these works
>correct in some regard...

Interesting note to end on. Peace.

Hotep

>
Lastly, I can't remember
>what language the word 'amen'
>actually comes from, but I'm
>pretty sure it's not Kemetic.
> Even if it was,
>its meaning as used by
>Christians ("so be it") in
>no way acknowledges the Sun
>as God. Rather, you

"Amen" is no a reference to the sun. "Amen" means hidden, unseen or invisible. It was used in reference to the "great invisible spirit" that pervades the world. Also this word derived from KMT (ancient Egypt). If you look at history, you would see that Christianity as a religion was shaped in Egypt during the early centuries C.E. while Egypt was under Roman then Byzantine rule. In the early prayers of early Egyptian Christians, the end was always followed by "In the name of the Great Invisible Spirit, Amen." LAter on when Constantine made Christianity the state religion, constant effort was made from then until now to mask all traces of Egyptian heritage in Christianity so now "Amen" is said to be "so be it."

PEace
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

>"Amen" is no a reference to
>the sun. "Amen" means
>hidden, unseen or invisible.
>It was used in reference
>to the "great invisible spirit"
>that pervades the world. Also
>this word derived from KMT
>(ancient Egypt). If you
>look at history, you would
>see that Christianity as a
>religion was shaped in Egypt
>during the early centuries
>C.E. while Egypt was under
>Roman then Byzantine rule.
>In the early prayers of
>early Egyptian Christians, the end
>was always followed by "In
>the name of the Great
>Invisible Spirit, Amen." LAter
>on when Constantine made Christianity
>the state religion, constant effort
>was made from then until
>now to mask all traces
>of Egyptian heritage in Christianity
>so now "Amen" is
>said to be "so be
>it."
>
>PEace
>Solarus

What's up Solarus,

If this is true hit me with proof (factual documents) that I may reference and evaluate for myself. Obviously the books of history don't show this at all. E-me at

http://www.bambataa77@hotmail.com

thank you.

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

Hotep

This is for Freedom Ali and Solitayre.

Symbolism permeated Kemetic culture (as with all traditional African culture). Also intrinsic is the multiple levels of understanding the symbols. The duty of the priesthood was to maintain and uplift all cultural and spiritual knowledge (see "Significance of the Priesthood" in "Okayblackourstorymonth"). The purpose of rituals is to constantly keep the society in tune with its spiritual awareness. Obviously some with be more spiritually in tune than others. Those persons who've dedicate hours upon hours of the day studying the universe and SELF will more likely increase their understanding moreso than the common person who doesn't. However it is their collective duty to make sure that constantly elevate as a person and as a group.

This leads into the differing understandings of "Amen" as with the other "dieties." It is like comparing a child's understanding of life throughout the child's life until elderhood. Experience will change one's outlook on life although life itself has not changed much. ALL of the dieties were varying manifestations of SELF(I.E. UNIVERSE). If one is to look into the deep sciences that stem from KMT like Hermeticism one would see that the nature of the universe/SPIRIT/God is unknowable, hence hidden, unseen or "Amen."

The sun has multiple layers of meaning. The sun could be a representation of Heru (Horus) or Set. The negative, harsh, life killing sun of the desert was associated with Set while the positive life-giving quality of the sun was Horus. Also "Ra" was "Life force" and thereby also represented by the sun since it is the greatest source of enrgy known in the physical world.

Check out these:

Kybalion
Medu Neter by Ra un nefer Amen
Runoko Rashidi's works
Echoes from the old Darkland by Charles Finch

PEace
Solarice



"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

Peace Solarus. To my knowledge, Amen was the unseen force of 'deity' that permeates the universe, however at the same time it represented the unseen force of the SUN because the SUN is the symbol of 'deity'. My knowledge may be limited in this area compared to you but I've read the Diop, Dr. Ben, etc. Anthony Browder said Ra represented the rising sun, Horus the noon sun, Set the setting sun and Amon the hidden force of the sun after setting. He calls Amon a sun God. It doesn't change my life whether or not Amon was seen as the sun. Just adding on.


Peace

Freedom

ORIGIN OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS(An essay by by Cheikh Anta Diop)

http://www.melanet.com/clegg_series/diop.html

Baptism I don't think is in the old testament at all. It is an Egyptian import i believe. So yes, Christianity has outside influences too, which is all influenced by a higher power anyway. The 3 kings who visited the infant Christ were probably Zoroastrians. They were astrologers, and God showed them the way through their religion. (Hence, the star that led them to Bethlehem). So Judeo-Christian "superiority complex" over other people's beliefs end up being wack and not Christian at all. For more on what else I have to say on "Christian" elitism, see my post in this thread: http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/DCForumID1/2314.html

And yes, I'm regular church-going believing Christian, for all those Christians who think I'm biased against Christianity. It's just that some of yall need a paradigm shift away from your elitism.

Actually Amin means TRUTH, I am sure Amen is associated with it.

The King James Bible may "sound" like the Translation of the Quran but I encourage you to study ARABIC before you utter another word about the Quran itself. Can we please step away from this European approach at education by accepting everything we can find against an issue without going to the SOURCE?

>Actually Amin means TRUTH, I am
>sure Amen is associated with
>it.
>
>The King James Bible may "sound"
>like the Translation of the
>Quran but I encourage you
>to study ARABIC before you
>utter another word about the
>Quran itself. Can we please
>step away from this European
>approach at education by accepting
>everything we can find against
>an issue without going to
>the SOURCE?

I understand your concern about people like me making claims they cannot support, but what's your issue when your 1st statement supports my point: "Amin" and "Amen" are related, therefore one cannot say it is an expression of faith in AmenRA.

That last part is my point, Solarus. What matters is what it means to the people who use it. You've heard Ras Kass's explanation of Christmas in "Nature of the Threat"? He fails to realize that such a history lesson does not change what a Christian is celebrating on Dec. 25 - the arrival of Christ on Earth.

to show the origins of concepts that are usually purposely changed and the origins demonized. Of course to the modern-day Christian, certain concepts do not have the same meaning. However it is important to show the Christian the of his/her origins beliefs, especially when the source of these beliefs is seen as negative and "heathenous." It is important to show how the Constantine, his cronies, and descendants made it a point to rewrite history and religious knowledge in order to gain power and more control in his (their) oppressive rule. It is important to show the origins to those who believe that everything African is "pagan" (a word that derived from the Roman term used to describe those persons living in the rural Roman countryside, backwards, "heathenous," and even demonic.

BTW, Rass Kass' history of Christmas is limited as he does not go before the Roman celebration of Saturnalia. It was not always like the gross celebration as practiced by Romans. Again its origins begin in KMT, in the observance of the winter solstice which was symbolized by the birth of Heru, the immaculately conceived saviour... Sound familiar?

PEace
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

>You've heard Ras Kass's explanation
>of Christmas in "Nature of
>the Threat"? He fails
>to realize that such a
>history lesson does not change
>what a Christian is celebrating
>on Dec. 25 - the
>arrival of Christ on Earth.

As a "Christian" I find your previous statement is horrible.

WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY TO CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS ON THE 25TH DAY OF A MONTH CALLED DECEMBER!?!?

NOWHERE?!?!

RAS IS CORRECT IN THIS DON'T CELEBRATE THIS DAY.

THEY DON'T EVEN LIST THE DAY JESUS WAS BORN IN THE BIBLE!!!

WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS!! OTHER THAN FOR POPULARITY!

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

I'm really sorry, but I don't really understand what you're talking about. If you think I'm saying Christmas needs to be celebrated on Dec. 25, you're wrong. I was saying what matters is what you're celebrating. If you think we should celebrate the birth of Jesus on another day, I don't think you'll get your wish (unless you become Orthodox), but I wouldn't oppose such a change. If you think we shouldn't celebrate the birth of Jesus, I don't see the harm in doing so - we celebrate his death and his resurrection...

>The history of Islam as
>a violently-converting religion comes a
>lot quicker after its conception
>than that of Christianity.

This is an irresponsible, false, ignorant statement; obviously fueled by your own hatred of Islam and provided to you by an equally hateful western media. Show me evidence that backs up your claim.

"The Muslim faithful who is supposed to lay down his life in such process of forceful conversion of others knows only too well that God has commanded him never to coerce anyone into faith (Qur'an 2:256). He knows that God even warned his Prophet against any such practice (1 9, 88:22) and that the responsibility of the faithful cannot go beyond presentation of the claims of faith. Finally, he knows only too well that it is God Who guides, not he; and that God guides some and permits others to go astray (13:27). If he did not, how could he be the 'faithful' in question? And if he did, how could he indulge in such condemnable crimes? Logic, however, is not the forte of the falsifiers of history."(al Faruqi)

"These stupendous conquests which laid the foundation of the Arab Empire, were certainly not the outcome of a holy war, waged for the propagation of Islam, but they were followed by such vast defection from the Christian faith that this result has often been supposed to have been their aim. Thus the sword came to be looked upon by Christian historians as the instrument of Muslim propaganda, and in the light of the success attributed to it the evidences of the genuine missionary activity of Islam were obscured."(Arnold)


Do you want more?!!!??!


Arnold, Thomas. The Preaching of Islam. p. 56-57
al Farugi. The Cultural Atlas of Islam. p. 218

>>The history of Islam as
>>a violently-converting religion comes a
>>lot quicker after its conception
>>than that of Christianity.
>
>This is an irresponsible, false, ignorant
>statement; obviously fueled by your
>own hatred of Islam and
>provided to you by an
>equally hateful western media. Show
>me evidence that backs up
>your claim.

i am a student of religion. one of the aras in whcih i specialize is islam. let us be clear on one undeniable fact: neither of the religions discussed here have ever oficially promoted violent conversion. that this occurs is not because of the religions. it has much more to do with the societies and personalities in the organizations of these religions.
for the record, christians began to persecute "heretical" christians almost immediately (in the first 100 years of the religion). does this make it a violent religion? the same sort of schisms show up around the same period in islamic evolution. the fact is, they were both religions rooted in the very turbulent middle east. violence was unavoidable-the amount of fertile land there guarantees it.(i will gladly provide references if asked. im just a little too tired to whip out the bookss right now).

>i am a student of religion.
>one of the aras in
>whcih i specialize is islam.
>let us be clear on
>one undeniable fact: neither of
>the religions discussed here have
>ever oficially promoted violent conversion.
>that this occurs is not
>because of the religions. it
>has much more to do
>with the societies and personalities
>in the organizations of these
>religions.
>for the record, christians began to
>persecute "heretical" christians almost immediately
>(in the first 100 years
>of the religion). does this
>make it a violent religion?
>the same sort of schisms
>show up around the same
>period in islamic evolution. the
>fact is, they were both
>religions rooted in the very
>turbulent middle east. violence was
>unavoidable-the amount of fertile land
>there guarantees it.(i will gladly
>provide references if asked. im
>just a little too tired
>to whip out the bookss
>right now).

AZ had some very interesting historical evidence to show that makes me feel more educated. If he feels violent conversion is completely a myth, I still think that's kinda naive. And is it easier to be Muslim in N. America (where you can face discrimination) or Christian in Afghanistan or other places where you can be persecuted under the law?

It is is the above statement that hits the nail on the head, though. Neither Islam nor Christianity promotes persecution of others. Rather, as in most religions, we are commanded to love one another. So may no one be defensive of Islam while calling Christianity a "slave-master's religion" or anything like that. If you don't like what some ultra-right-wing preacher says on TV, that does not make it right to condemn people's faith in Jesus Christ, who said nothing about the importance of the right to bear arms. Am I simplifying things? Yes, I guess; I'm sure it the much bigger issue of the distribution of power which causes this intolerance for what is for now the largest religion in the world. But the point is, when you speak of a religion in broad terms, when you attack its roots, etc., you're only attacking PEOPLE'S BELIEFS. If you feel like doing that, it's a free world, but don't fool yourself that you're fighting the power.

I HAVE NO HATE FOR ANOTHER RELIGION. I believe in Jesus as my Lord and Saviour. I shouldn't be ashamed to say that, whether or not it hurts to hear some of you snicker at those words. Would I find it positive if everyone else believed that? Yes. But do have the right to hate you if you don't? No. If I hated someone for being different than me, that would be anti-Christian, now wouldn't it? And I don't want to be anti-me.

Hotep

As far as AFRIKANS are concerned BOTH Christianity AND Islam are "slave-master religions."

Let's see you can choose

the Giver Of Destruction (g.o.d.)

or

the Alien Lifeform Living on Afrikan Humanity (a.l.l.a.h.)

Anyway it goes, the Afrikan still loses.

PEace
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

Seeing as you believe a religion's history determines its validity, what are your religious beliefs?

Hotep

That is not an accurate understanding of my views. "Religious history" does not validate or invalidate a religion alone. It is the EFFECT and PURPOSE of the religion that invalidates it.

Christianity and Islam both claim to be UNIVERSAL religions transcendant over culture. This is NOT TRUE. Religion is inextricably tied to culture and Culture is the defining factor of any human's life. For the Afrikan to strip away his/her culture is to kill him/her. The spread of Christianity in its founding days by the Byzantine empire and later Roman Catholic Church was done by simultaneously destroying evidence of the Afrikan culture (documents, temples, etc.) and keepers of the cultural heritage (KMTic priests) which is why the knowledge of Hieroglyphs (mdw ntr) was lost and had to be "found." The spread of modern Christianity has simultaneously acted as the spread of Western culture and Western cultural values. The "new" Church of recent centuries committed the same acts of destroying and suppressing cultural heritage of indigenous peoples worldwide especially in Afrika. What is the difference btween a Christian soldier who comes to your village with a gun in his hand and a Christian priest with a Bible? None because their effects ARE THE SAME.

Islam can be seen in the same light. It is amazing to the degree that some (and I know they will now) persons try to separate Arabic culture from Islam instead of seeing Islam as a extension of Arabic culture. Praying towards and making the hajj to MECCA (a land that has significance to ARABIC history), Arabic being the sacred language, specific customs, rituals and practices found IN THE QURAN that are not common to or relevant in other cultures.

Furthermore, these two religions are fundamentally problematic because of the inherent either/or dichotomy that is characteristic of Western/Eurasian thought (Arabs are "Semites" so I guess that took cues from their other half.) This dichotomy can be seen in the codified, divinely-stated superiority of men over women and the belief that if don't believe in Allah/Christ, you are a "pagan" or "heathen" both terms that are inherently negative. This is not a characteristic of Afrikan thought (or other non-Western views) to view life as EITHER this is good OR this is bad. Those who aren't within the realms of one's beliefs do not deserve to be scolded or taught OUR WAY. Both books (Bible and Quran) DIVINELY advocate the destruction of those who do not believe in "god's way" (read: OUR WAY).

This poses a problem for the Afrikan as both religions seek to disinherit him/her from his/her past. When have Christians EVER been loving on a LARGE SCALE? Most of its adherents were bamboozled into the religion. Islam while is doesn't have AS bloody a history HAS a VERY BLOODY HISTORY nonetheless. However in a lot of cases it managed to secure many adherents who felt the wrath of another oppressive religion (Egyptians under Christianity, Dalits (Indians) under Hinduism).

The problem is when each religion seeks "TO BE THE ONLY ONE" destroy one's cultural heritage. That is when JUSTICE need to be dealt.

PEace
Solarus

P.S. To answer the question you are dying to know I don't have any "religion" as the concept as you know it bespeaks of Western illogic. Hopefully I will one day be properly initiated into one of the many traditions established by my ancestors. Until then and forever more, I find comfort in the knowledge that I AM...

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

Explain this:

>For the Afrikan to strip away his/her culture is to kill him/her.

>The spread of Christianity
>in its founding days by
>the Byzantine empire and later
>Roman Catholic Church was done
>by simultaneously destroying evidence of
>the Afrikan culture (documents, temples,
>etc.) and keepers of the
>cultural heritage (KMTic priests) which
>is why the knowledge of
>Hieroglyphs (mdw ntr) was lost
>and had to be "found."

actually, by the time of the christians emergence in the middle east, a great deal of the ancient wisdom of egypt had been lost in the numerous invasions and wars it had sufered. while their is no doubt the christians did help in this process, many other peoples contributed both before and after.

>The problem is when each religion
>seeks "TO BE THE ONLY
>ONE" destroy one's cultural heritage.

i wholeheartedly agree that their is no "one true path" of any sort. as the sufis (islamic mystics) stated so many centuries ago, "one mountain, many paths."

but much of it was still there. For the longest the Greeks still knew the deal when it came to knowledge and Romans did too. However when the Roman empire came under Byzantine (Turkish) control and later became Christian, it had to further destroy the rest of the knowledge and kill the priest in order to solidify the lies that would have to become truth for the firm establishment now called "Christianity."

PEace
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

how is justice dealt?
who's justice is it?
where did it's form come from?

>Both books (Bible and Quran)
>DIVINELY advocate the destruction of
>those who do not believe
>in "god's way" (read: OUR
>WAY).

Solarus, I do not agree with your main message concerning culture and religion, but I understand where you're coming from and respect your opinion. Your love for our African heritage and culture is certainly admirable. One small issue, though: I cannot recall ever reading any scripture promoting the destruction of non-believers...

On second thought, one could cite the book of Joshua. However, I think Biblical scholars would contend there was a lot more God didn't like about the societies the Israelites conquered than not being Jewish (child sacrifice, temple prostitution, etc. - this is known through archaeological evidence). I personally won't argue from this standpoint. I will instead note that the Bible taken as a WHOLE leaves the Christian with the desire to treat others well, rather than destroy them. For example, to take an example from Christian imperfection, you have Christians that avidly support (in an anti-Arab way) the Zionist movement; if we were commanded to destroy those who do not believe in God's way, we would have a different perspective on these people who see Christ as no one special. That's probably a bad example; my point is, violence perpetrated by Christian missionaries in the past is usually seen as having taken place IN SPITE of Christian doctrine, as opposed to in accordance with it. You'll never find someone claiming today's peaceful missionaries are missing out on an important part of what it means to be Christian. I feel you misrepresented the Bible. If you disagree, please explain.

Hotep
As far as AFRIKANS are concerned BOTH Christianity AND Islam are "slave-master religions."

Let's see you can choose

the Giver Of Destruction (g.o.d.)

or

the Alien Lifeform Living on Afrikan Humanity (a.l.l.a.h.)

Anyway it goes, the Afrikan still loses.

PEace
Solarus

Wow, how ignorant. Explain to us what the "ideal" Afrikan is. What exactly are you looking for in the African? I am talking about dress, food, detail. I want you to tell us what exactly Islam has done wrong to the Afrikan. Oppresive institutions do not encourage free thought, do not encourage education, do not seek to highten the status of women or give them rights. Please speak the truth, not what some incense burning, mudclothe wearing, mask hanging wannabe conjures up in his little head.

I'll let Solarus defend himself, but this should be fun to watch

Incidentally (just to note one), weren't the Dogon (mentioned earlier) fleeing Islamic peoples invading their Kemetic culture?

Hotep

Apparently he/she can't read (See JUSTICE). Where did this "one" monolithic Afrikan culture come from?

Geez people, come tighter.

PEace
Solarus

"Activism is the practice of using an internal, self-determining source of power to live one's life and/or enact some sort of change. Power is the ability to define reality, while self-determination is to decide or define one's self. Therefore activism, is not simply something done to right some wrong or to fight some cause but rather it is a way of life. Activism is the way of life where one can define self and change anything that may impede or control the reality that one chooses to live."-Solarus

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

>>The history of Islam as
>>a violently-converting religion comes a
>>lot quicker after its conception
>>than that of Christianity.
>
>This is an irresponsible, false, ignorant
>statement; obviously fueled by your
>own hatred of Islam and
>provided to you by an
>equally hateful western media. Show
>me evidence that backs up
>your claim.

See my response a little lower on this page.

Actually, higher. Sorry.

You didn't watch the PBS documentary on Africa.

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

maybe some of you should look into the Bahai Faith

-------------------------
love what you do
and do what you love

the Bible is the only true literature ever writtin, beside's our history textbooks. Of Course the Catholic interpretation is the only true interpretation. All others go to hell.

I hate to think that people like you still exist...
but since you do, maybe you should READ the Q'uran, cause, and while this is a guesstimation on my part, I don't think you have.. and while everyone has given some beautiful information (both biased and unbiased) no one has answered one simple question (mind you, I also could not let such a wonderful discussion end on the most ignorant comment I've read since I said D'Angelo needs to keep his clothes on if he wanted to be taken seriously (just jokes... no hate mail please) If Christianity is all that it is cracked up to be, actually answer two questions, can anyone tell me where in the Bible (and I have read the Bible many, many times...and most of these interpretations do not seem accurate to me at all) where it says you should be (and using the word directly) a "Christian". I have never seen that word in the Bible, leading me to believe how can you claim to be sooooo exact, and it's not even in your own book? If that is a manmade move, then how many other manmade moves are being made (hope that makes sense, ya dig??) (No sarcasm there, no offense to anyone, believe me I'm just glad we can have this discussion). Second, if Christianity is as profound as some claim (devil's advocate) then how is it the very same people who enslaved you worships the same way... am I to believe that the same race of people who (and let's take a quick walk down memory lane, shall we???) destroyed the Native Americans (all but wiped out there entire history and existence), the Aborginies (same deal, different location), enslaved millions (actually the true number, regardless of how scholarly some may think they are, will never be known) of Africans, destroying their mentality, their principles, changing their original tongue, and even got heads so fucked up they name there own children after the same people who raped and murdered their ancestors, let alone all the women claiming to be apart of the struggle, yet putting in TEMPORARIES and calling the permanents (entire other post is needed for that one...) so they can resemble the slave owner's wives and daughters, crazy... can any of these bright thinkers ( and we are, no joke, nuff respect to everyone for taking the time, with the exception of money...) explain or elaborate while putting their personal feelings aside??? Thanks... one love.. oh, and I do not need anyone to tell me that my view on Catholicism is wrong, let's face it, they do call their Priests father (so no matter how you cover it up, it's bugged) and how many times in Europe did you hear them reference to each other (mainly wealthy land owners) as 'My Lord', again, please spare me the Kirk Franklin bullshit and give me the real...thanks again

>I hate to think that people
>like you still exist...

I assume you're referring to the comment above you, which I assume to be another laugh at the expense of Christianity.

>but since you do, maybe you
>should READ the Q'uran, cause,
>and while this is a
>guesstimation on my part, I
>don't think you have.. and
>while everyone has given some
>beautiful information (both biased and
>unbiased) no one has answered
>one simple question (mind you,
>I also could not let
>such a wonderful discussion end
>on the most ignorant comment
>I've read since I said
>D'Angelo needs to keep his
>clothes on if he wanted
>to be taken seriously (just
>jokes... no hate mail please)
> If Christianity is all
>that it is cracked up
>to be, actually answer two
>questions, can anyone tell me
>where in the Bible (and
>I have read the Bible
>many, many times...and most of
>these interpretations do not seem
>accurate to me at all)
>where it says you should
>be (and using the word
>directly) a "Christian". I
>have never seen that word
>in the Bible, leading me
>to believe how can you
>claim to be sooooo exact,
>and it's not even in
>your own book? If
>that is a manmade move,
>then how many other manmade
>moves are being made (hope
>that makes sense, ya dig??)
>(No sarcasm there, no offense
>to anyone, believe me I'm
>just glad we can have
>this discussion).

You can't be serious. Christianity is invalid because its holy book does not contain the word Christian? "Christian" is a title properly given to someone who follows Christ. You may not find it in the Bible because it might have been coined after Christianity became more established as a religion (any historians who can clarify?). You will, of course, find "brother in Christ", "all of you who are in Christ", "servant of the Lord Jesus Christ", "saints in Christ Jesus", "apostle of Christ Jesus", etc., in the Bible. By the way, I have read some of the Qu'ran, there's one in my house, though I do not consider myself to be an expert.

>Second, if
>Christianity is as profound as
>some claim (devil's advocate) then
>how is it the very
>same people who enslaved you
>worships the same way... am
>I to believe that the
>same race of people who
>(and let's take a quick
>walk down memory lane, shall
>we???) destroyed the Native Americans
>(all but wiped out there
>entire history and existence), the
>Aborginies (same deal, different location),
>enslaved millions (actually the true
>number, regardless of how scholarly
>some may think they are,
>will never be known) of
>Africans, destroying their mentality, their
>principles, changing their original tongue,
>and even got heads so
>fucked up they name there
>own children after the same
>people who raped and murdered
>their ancestors, let alone all
>the women claiming to be
>apart of the struggle, yet
>putting in TEMPORARIES and calling
>the permanents (entire other post
>is needed for that one...)
>so they can resemble the
>slave owner's wives and daughters,
>crazy... can any of these
>bright thinkers ( and we
>are, no joke, nuff respect
>to everyone for taking the
>time, with the exception of
>money...) explain or elaborate while
>putting their personal feelings aside???
>Thanks... one love.. oh, and
>I do not need anyone
>to tell me that my
>view on Catholicism is wrong,
>let's face it, they do
>call their Priests father (so
>no matter how you cover
>it up, it's bugged) and
>how many times in Europe
>did you hear them reference
>to each other (mainly wealthy
>land owners) as 'My Lord',
>again, please spare me the
>Kirk Franklin bullshit and give
>me the real...thanks again

If Indonesians (no offense to any who may be reading, I'm making a ludicrous example) invaded the U.S. and took every black man and woman hostage for the purpose of extreme torture, would you change your religion? I would guess no, because you wouldn't see a link between what some Muslims are doing and what Muslims should be doing. The destruction of other civilizations by Europeans is a complex topic, but you know very well Christianity is not European in origin, right? And the stuff you're saying about Catholics is still a distortion; go read a catechism, then tell me priests and land owners are supposed to be higher than God. You're talking about words, not reality.

>I hate to think that people
>like you still exist...
>but since you do, maybe you
>should READ the Q'uran, cause,
>and while this is a
>guesstimation on my part, I
>don't think you have.. and
>while everyone has given some
>beautiful information (both biased and
>unbiased) no one has answered
>one simple question (mind you,
>I also could not let
>such a wonderful discussion end
>on the most ignorant comment
>I've read since I said
>D'Angelo needs to keep his
>clothes on if he wanted
>to be taken seriously (just
>jokes... no hate mail please)
> If Christianity is all
>that it is cracked up
>to be, actually answer two
>questions, can anyone tell me
>where in the Bible (and
>I have read the Bible
>many, many times...and most of
>these interpretations do not seem
>accurate to me at all)
>where it says you should
>be (and using the word
>directly) a "Christian". I
>have never seen that word
>in the Bible, leading me
>to believe how can you
>claim to be sooooo exact,
>and it's not even in
>your own book? If
>that is a manmade move,
>then how many other manmade
>moves are being made (hope
>that makes sense, ya dig??)
>(No sarcasm there, no offense
>to anyone, believe me I'm
>just glad we can have
>this discussion).

that i cannot answer. seeing i probably havent read the whole bible. so in the quran, is the word 'muslim' there? or is it stated as: 'a follower of islam'? i havent read the quran, so am just asking

> Second, if
>Christianity is as profound as
>some claim (devil's advocate) then
>how is it the very
>same people who enslaved you
>worships the same way... am
>I to believe that the
>same race of people who
>(and let's take a quick
>walk down memory lane, shall
>we???) destroyed the Native Americans
>(all but wiped out there
>entire history and existence), the
>Aborginies (same deal, different location),
>enslaved millions (actually the true
>number, regardless of how scholarly
>some may think they are,
>will never be known) of
>Africans, destroying their mentality, their
>principles, changing their original tongue,
>and even got heads so
>fucked up they name there
>own children after the same
>people who raped and murdered
>their ancestors, let alone all
>the women claiming to be
>apart of the struggle, yet
>putting in TEMPORARIES and calling
>the permanents (entire other post
>is needed for that one...)
>so they can resemble the
>slave owner's wives and daughters,
>crazy... can any of these
>bright thinkers ( and we
>are, no joke, nuff respect
>to everyone for taking the
>time, with the exception of
>money...) explain or elaborate while
>putting their personal feelings aside???
>Thanks... one love.. oh, and
>I do not need anyone
>to tell me that my
>view on Catholicism is wrong,
>let's face it, they do
>call their Priests father (so
>no matter how you cover
>it up, it's bugged) and
>how many times in Europe
>did you hear them reference
>to each other (mainly wealthy
>land owners) as 'My Lord',
>again, please spare me the
>Kirk Franklin bullshit and give
>me the real...thanks again

are you trying to say the same thing cant be said of islam? surely, you must be joking? where i come from (nigeria) none of these (islam and christianity) religions are regarded as african religions.

help me out here, i have no proof of this but what is the arabic name used for a black person? i heard its directly translated to mean 'slave', true or false?

---------------------------
mE_again AKA mE AKA joe1192

mE_again appears courtesy of _again productions

peace to both of you brothers (or sisters I'm not sure???), and thanks for responding... the word Muslim is in the Q'uran, as far as the Arabic term to describe blacks I'm not sure, considering all the prophets were black, I don't think this was a issue, on top of that (I'm guessing, but I hope I make sense here) the issue of race didn't seem to become a issue (remember, the Egyptian schools did allow 'some' outsiders...) until the Roman Empire came about. The reason why I am pointing out the issue with Christianity and the titles is because I am trying to state that many people decided to take on titles, and make decisions, outside of the commandments of the Bible. Still, no one has yet to point out where in the Bible does it state "you must call yourself a Christian), and the difference between Protestants and Muslims are as different as Pearl Jam and the Black Eye Peas (damn I hate the Black Eye Peas). Most of what I hear from Christians (and again, I have read the Bible, and the Q'uran, and I am not trying to say in the least bit that one is better than the other, my personal opinion on this will not be discussed) is not even in the Bible. For example, I hear Christians say "if you follow Christ"... and so on, but when I read it Christ clearly said not to worship him, or anyone before God, which in my eyes, made him a Muslim, and it still does. No, I am not kidding, if anyone can debunk this theory then cool, and Christianity and Islam are both African religions, perhaps how it was presented to you was by a non-black, I'm not sure, I know how those missionaries are out there... but Christianity to me is no different than hip-hop, what was our lifestyle, has become exploited (hell you can't even watch a damn commercial without them throwing in a beat), confusing (I even read one cat say because of 'Stan', Em is greatest storyteller of all times... you see???), and stolen. Hang out with any of your favorite MC's (Mos, The Roots) while they are recording, and watch how many white cats are involved,(which isn't a bad thing, it just further proves my point...), just like Rock, Jazz, the Blues, so why not religion???... besides, just like music what we created came from our lifestyle, our gut instinct, and feeling, what they created as a mirror image always had formula written all over it... isn't that the same with religion(???), everytime I read the Bible it seems to me Christ was just doing his thing, his lifestyle, whereas Christians are following a formula, not the lifestyle... ya dig? I know, Muslims can be the same way, but I think one of the reasons you had the quote unquote 'holy wars' is not only the fertile land (bigup to the brother for making that statement) but also because the brothers and sister wanted to protect the word so it couldn't be distorted yet again (punishable by death), how is it everytime we are given something or create something that holds such incredible power, they want to get it, use it, rename it, distort it, and at the end of the day try to make all the major players seem like they were them...ya dig??? Examples??? Surely, Elvis (is called the King of Rock and Roll, pure bullshit, just ask Little Richard, Chuck Berry, and Fats Domino, hell ask Bo Diddley), fusion jazz (David Sanborne - money is nice, but just ask Sun RAA), Metal (ask any young guitarist and names like Ingwie Mowbstein, Joe Satriani, or Eddie VanHalen will come up all day, not Hendrix...), and now hip-hop thanks to Dr."I don't give a damn about my people or the culture, I'm just trying to get paid, first I told you I would kill you, now I'm giving our history away" Dre... No, then why has Christ been portrayed as looking like the lead singer for Lynard Skynard... (this isn't to offend anyone, I love everyone...just trying to get some direct, truthful, non-fluff, answers...)

all your saying is the practice is flawed, not the faith itself

-------------------------
love what you do
and do what you love

and
>how many times in Europe
>did you hear them reference
>to each other (mainly wealthy
>land owners) as 'My Lord',
>again, please spare me the
>Kirk Franklin bullshit and give
>me the real...thanks again

well, given that the bible was INTERPRETED into english, I would guess that LORD was applied to christ after it existed for english people with power. just a guess...

I'm sorry you took my comment seriously. When I wrote this I was just making a joke of what I have heard relatives who have criticized me for not being Catholic. In no way do look at the bible as accurate. The one thing I despise most about organized religeon is the thought that no other religeon is acceptable.

Go to this site for an inconsistent (90% opinionated) proof of the bible.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html

Dear supporter of this article:

I don't think that you understand how to thoroughly PROVE a book like the bible; however, I encourage you to do like myself and read more of it. Gain a proper understanding of it and then try again.

Although there was a good representation of it, there were two laws of physics which the quotes didn't scientifically support. One was the law of thermodynamics. It didn't really go into how energy storage burns into heat in ANY way. There was another one as well which I forget but 2 out of like 9 isn't bad shooting on this part I will say well done.

Oh yeah. You (& the writer) forgot one thing. Being that DR. LOUIS LEAKEY, world famous ARCHAEOLOGIST, FOUND THE REMAINS OF THE FIRST MAN IN THE REMAINS OF THE OMO VALLEY IN AN EAST AFRICAN LOCATION NEAR AFRICA'S GREAT LAKES, THE GREATEST PROOF THAT THE BIBLE IS ACCURATE IS THE AFRICAN MAN(TRUE ISRAELITE) AND HIS PLIGHT IN AMERICA---SEE THE BOOK OF DEUTERONOMY, CHAPTER 28 FOR PROOF. Or just hit this site, if you are open minded, that is:


http://www.carm.org/kjv/Deut/Deut_28.htm


ALSO SEE "THE BOOK VALLEY OF THE DRY BONES" BY RUDOLPH R. WINDSOR
FOR FURTHER EXPLANATION---

Just thought I would let you know.

One more thing pi is equal to approximately 3.14159.
The taste of your foot in your mouth MUST be UNBEARABLE.

I would also like to say that I am still a STUDENT (although indirectly a lifetime one) of the BIBLE and spiritual matters concerning it. As the supporter of the book who opened this argument has so adeptly pointed out, TRUE READERS OF THE BIBLE ALWAYS HAVE QUESTIONS EITHER ON THE MATERIAL IN IT, OR THE ACTUAL INTENTION, OR DARE I SAY EVEN THE WORD OF GOD. IT IS ALSO SAID IN THE BIBLE THAT ONE IS TO SEARCH THE TRUTH. RECENTLY, I'VE BEEN HEARING FROM MOST (MUSLIMS) ON CERTAIN WEBSITES THAT THE ACTUAL RELIGION(I HATE THAT CLASSIFICATION, IT IS SOOOO NARROW. FAITH IS BELIEF PUT INTO EVERYDAY ACTION. NOT A CERTAIN SET OF RITUALS OR PRACTICES PERFORMED ON SUNDAY ONLY.)
MAY HAVE STARTED AS A MYSTERY CULT. HOWEVER THESE SAME IDIOTS GIVE ME ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF TO BACK UP THEIR BOLD STATEMENTS. WHAT IS A MYSTERY TO ME IS HOW PEOPLE FEEL THAT THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY AND KNOWLEDGE TO TELL ANOTHER THAT, THAT THE OPPOSING PERSON'S GOD ISN'T THE TRUE GOD, THAT THEIR GOD IS THE TRUE GOD, YET WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO PROVIDING ACTUAL FALSIFICATIONS IN THE "FAKE" GOD'S DOCTRINE THEY EITHER COME UP SHORT OR DON'T EVEN PROVIDE ANY PROOF TO SUPPORT THEIR CLAIMS.

YES, THE BIBLE HAS BEEN WRITTEN AND REWRITTEN PROVIDING FOR MANY DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS. UNFORTUNATELY, THE PEOPLE WHO REWROTE THESE WORKS FOR THE MOST PART HAD ILL PHILOSOPHIES; BUT THOSE PHILOSOPHIES HAVE MANIFESTED INTO RITES, PRACTICES WHICH HAVE ENTERED THE RELIGION.

THE FUNNY THING IS...
SO HAS THE QU'RAN....

PROOF:
FIRST OFF, MUSLIMS CAN'T EVEN AGREE ON HOW TO SPELL THE BOOK. IS IT KORAN, OR QU'RAN. LET'S TIGHTEN UP PEOPLE BEFORE WE JUDGE OTHER FAITHS.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, HOW IS IT THAT THE QU'RAN HASN'T BEEN CHANGED? THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF IT IS ARABIC, N'EST CE PAS (ISN'T IT SO-in french)? IF I CAN BUY AN ENGLISH VERSION OF IT THEN IT HAS BEEN CHANGED.

PROOF:

IN A LANGUAGE BASED OFF LATIN SUCH AS ENGLISH HOW CAN ONE EXACTLY TRANSLATE EVERY WORD OF THE ARABIC LANGUAGE. THERE IS NO WAY.

IF I CAN BUY A VERSION OF THE QU'RAN (KORAN, TOM-AY-TO, TOM-a-TO) THAT READS FROM LEFT TO RIGHT IT HAS MOST DEFINITELY BEEN CHANGED AND YES, ONE CAN FIND BOTH OF THOSE TYPE BOOKS ON THE MARKET TODAY.

PROOF:

THE ORIGINAL ARABIC READS FROM RIGHT TO LEFT.

I PREFER TO HONOR GOD, ACCORDING TO THE TEXT GIVEN ME AND NOT BY A PHILOSOPHER WHO PROBABLY DID ALL OF HIS STUDIES IN CARTHAGE ("ST". AURELIUS AUGUSTUS) OR NORTH AFRICA (TERTULLIAN).

IF ANYONE BY THE WAY HAS (OR KNOWS WHERE I CAN OBTAIN) MORE INFORMATION ON THESE "PHILOSOPHERS" PLEASE E ME AT http://www.bambataa77@hotmail.com

My father is a Sunni. My mother a "Christian". Both weren't paying much attention. They just fell in love. Sue them. My issue is this:

IF A MUSLIM KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT THE BIBLE (FACTS WHICH CAN BE REFERENCED ONLY) THAT A "CHRISTIAN" LIKE MYSELF SHOULD KNOW, CHALLENGE ME. I WILL INVESTIGATE THE TRUTH, AND UPHOLD THE "TRUE" WORD OF GOD WHEREVER IT MAY BE, EVEN IF IT MEANS I HAVE TO LEAVE MY PRESENT STATE OF FAITH.

MY MISSION IS LIKE YOURS. TO FIND THE ABSOLUTE WORD OF GOD.

AFTER THAT PROVE IT TO THE REST OF THE WORLD WITHOUT ANY FEAR OR DOUBT.


YES, FOLKS TODAY HAVE GOT IT ALL WRONG.
THEY'VE GOT THIS IDEA THAT SELF-RESPECT MEANS,
"I am a great person. I am wonderful. ME, me, me."
THAT'S NOT SELF-RESPECT;
THAT'S VANITY.--BESSIE DELANY--

MLK WAS TOTALLY WRONG.
I TRULY BELIEVE WITHOUT A DOUBT HE WAS A COINTELPRO AGENT.
EVEN BY THE STANDARDS OF THE BIBLE.
THE HEBREWS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT EITHER CONQUERED THEIR ENEMIES OR WERE HARRASSED BY THEIR ENEMIES.
HELL, LOVE YA NEIGHBOR AS YOU WOULD LOVE YASELF.
BUT SHOULDN'T YOU LOVE YOURSELF ENOUGH TO PROTECT & REBUILD YOUR
OWN COMMUNITY BEFORE YOU GO FUCKIN' AROUND IN SOMEONE ELSE'S?
--ME--

AY, YO THE DEVIL PUT FEAR INSIDE THE BLACK BABIES/
50-CENT SODAS IN THE HOOD/THEY GOIN' CRAZY/
DEAD MEAT PLACED ON THE SHELVES, WE EAT COLD CUTS
FAST FROM THE HEART YA'LL AND GROW UP!!
--GHOSTFACE, on the state of the garbage sold in our hoods

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Just a PSA

> MOST
>IMPORTANTLY, HOW IS IT THAT
>THE QU'RAN HASN'T BEEN CHANGED?
> THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF
>IT IS ARABIC, N'EST CE
>PAS (ISN'T IT SO-in french)?
> IF I CAN BUY
>AN ENGLISH VERSION OF IT
>THEN IT HAS BEEN CHANGED.

Wrong. You can't buy an English version of the Qur'an, you can only buy an English interpretation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an only exists in Arabic, and has never changed.

>> MOST
>>IMPORTANTLY, HOW IS IT THAT
>>THE QU'RAN HASN'T BEEN CHANGED?
>> THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF
>>IT IS ARABIC, N'EST CE
>>PAS (ISN'T IT SO-in french)?
>> IF I CAN BUY
>>AN ENGLISH VERSION OF IT
>>THEN IT HAS BEEN CHANGED.
>
>Wrong. You can't buy an English
>version of the Qur'an, you
>can only buy an English
>interpretation of the Qur'an. The
>Qur'an only exists in Arabic,
>and has never changed.

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Just a PSA

>>> MOST
>>>IMPORTANTLY, HOW IS IT THAT
>>>THE QU'RAN HASN'T BEEN CHANGED?
>>> THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF
>>>IT IS ARABIC, N'EST CE
>>>PAS (ISN'T IT SO-in french)?
>>> IF I CAN BUY
>>>AN ENGLISH VERSION OF IT
>>>THEN IT HAS BEEN CHANGED.
>>

>>Wrong. You can't buy an English
>>version of the Qur'an, you
>>can only buy an English
>>interpretation of the Qur'an. The
>>Qur'an only exists in Arabic,
>>and has never changed.

Oh so basically YOU are saying that there IS an actual ENGLISH interpretation of the Qur'an?

Oh, Ok. Well said

Ahem,

INTERPRETATION(as defined by my Webster's New Riverside Dictionary):SEE INTERPRET

INTERPRET:
1.)TO CLARIFY THE MEANING OF BY EXPLAINING OR RESTATING.
2.)TO REPRESENT ORDELINEATE THE MEANING OF, ESP. (now get this..)
BY ARTISTIC PERFORMANCE.<AN ACTRESS INTERPRETING A ROLE>
(lastly, and MOST importantly)
3.)TO TRANSLATE.
-IN*TER'PRET*A*BLE adj.
-IN*TER'PRE*TA'TION n.
-IN*TER'PRET*ER n.

VERSION:
1.)A DESCRIPTION OR ACCOUNT TOLD FROM A PARTICULAR POINT OF VIEW.
2)A TRANSLATION OF WRITTEN WORK, ESP. THE BIBLE.(I stated this)
3.)A PARTICULAR FORM OR VARIATION.
4.)AN ADAPTION OF A WORK OF LITERATURE OR ART INTO ANOTHER MEDIUM.

MY AFTERTHOUGHTS:
1.)IF VERSION AND INTERPRETATION, BY ENGLISH DEFINITION, HAVE A SIMILAR MEANING (see INTERPRETATION #3 & VERSION #2) WOULDN'T THAT MAKE THE TWO WORDS SYNONYMS, WHICH WOULD THEREFORE MAKE THE POINT YOU PREVIOUSLY MADE SOUND CONTRADICTORY IN THE TERMS YOU SPOKE OF IT?

2.)IF THE QUR'AN "ONLY EXISTS IN ARABIC" WOULDN'T THAT BE LIKE SAYING TO THE MILLIONS OF ENGLISH SPEAKING MUSLIMS IN THE US THAT THEY ARE NOT READING THE "TRUE" QUR'AN AND THEREFORE, WOULDN'T THAT BE LIKE PLACING THEM IN THE SAME CATEGORY AS THE CHRISTIANS BECAUSE THEY ARE IN FACT NOT READING THE TRUE WORD OF ALLAH?

YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE SIR.

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>MY AFTERTHOUGHTS:
>1.)IF VERSION AND INTERPRETATION, BY ENGLISH
>DEFINITION, HAVE A SIMILAR MEANING
>(see INTERPRETATION #3 & VERSION
>#2) WOULDN'T THAT MAKE THE
>TWO WORDS SYNONYMS, WHICH WOULD
>THEREFORE MAKE THE POINT YOU
>PREVIOUSLY MADE SOUND CONTRADICTORY IN
>THE TERMS YOU SPOKE OF
>IT?

actually, no...there are words (and thus groups of words, ie. IDEAS) that have no DIRECT translation. I can find synonims and translations all day long, but there are some things that just can't be truly understood outside of the original language. If you haven't encountered this before, I would guess that you are monolingual and would suggest that you seriously think about learning another language.

>>>> MOST
>>>>IMPORTANTLY, HOW IS IT THAT
>>>>THE QU'RAN HASN'T BEEN CHANGED?
>>>> THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF
>>>>IT IS ARABIC, N'EST CE
>>>>PAS (ISN'T IT SO-in french)?
>>>> IF I CAN BUY
>>>>AN ENGLISH VERSION OF IT
>>>>THEN IT HAS BEEN CHANGED.
>>>
>
>>>Wrong. You can't buy an English
>>>version of the Qur'an, you
>>>can only buy an English
>>>interpretation of the Qur'an. The
>>>Qur'an only exists in Arabic,
>>>and has never changed.
>
>Oh so basically YOU are saying
>that there IS an actual
>ENGLISH interpretation of the Qur'an?
>
>
>Oh, Ok. Well said
>
>Ahem,
>
>INTERPRETATION(as defined by my Webster's New
>Riverside Dictionary):SEE INTERPRET
>
>INTERPRET:
>1.)TO CLARIFY THE MEANING OF BY
>EXPLAINING OR RESTATING.
>2.)TO REPRESENT ORDELINEATE THE MEANING OF,
>ESP. (now get this..)
> BY ARTISTIC PERFORMANCE.<AN ACTRESS INTERPRETING A ROLE>
>(lastly, and MOST importantly)
>3.)TO TRANSLATE.
>-IN*TER'PRET*A*BLE adj.
>-IN*TER'PRE*TA'TION n.
>-IN*TER'PRET*ER n.
>

Translate is only ONE of the possible meanings of interpret. However, it is not the one that applies to how I used interpret in this case.

Here is the meaning that best applies to how I used the word "interpret": (taken from miriam webster collegiate dictionary)

1 : to explain or tell the meaning of : present in understandable terms



>VERSION:
>1.)A DESCRIPTION OR ACCOUNT TOLD FROM
>A PARTICULAR POINT OF VIEW.
>
>2)A TRANSLATION OF WRITTEN WORK, ESP.
>THE BIBLE.(I stated this)
>3.)A PARTICULAR FORM OR VARIATION.
>4.)AN ADAPTION OF A WORK OF
>LITERATURE OR ART INTO ANOTHER
>
> MEDIUM.
>
>MY AFTERTHOUGHTS:
>1.)IF VERSION AND INTERPRETATION, BY ENGLISH
>DEFINITION, HAVE A SIMILAR MEANING
>(see INTERPRETATION #3 & VERSION
>#2) WOULDN'T THAT MAKE THE
>TWO WORDS SYNONYMS, WHICH WOULD
>THEREFORE MAKE THE POINT YOU
>PREVIOUSLY MADE SOUND CONTRADICTORY IN
>THE TERMS YOU SPOKE OF
>IT?
>
>2.)IF THE QUR'AN "ONLY EXISTS IN
>ARABIC" WOULDN'T THAT BE LIKE
>SAYING TO THE MILLIONS OF
>ENGLISH SPEAKING MUSLIMS IN THE
>US THAT THEY ARE NOT
>READING THE "TRUE" QUR'AN AND
>THEREFORE, WOULDN'T THAT BE LIKE
>PLACING THEM IN THE SAME
>CATEGORY AS THE CHRISTIANS BECAUSE
>THEY ARE IN FACT NOT
>READING THE TRUE WORD OF
>ALLAH?

Yes. One of the tenants of Islam is that you must read the Qur'an in Arabic. That's why if you go to any mosque or Islamic community center worldwide, there are usually Arabic classes offered.

>
>YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE SIR.

>Dear supporter of this article:
>
> I
>don't think that you understand
>how to thoroughly PROVE a
>book like the bible; however,
>I encourage you to do
>like myself and read more
>of it. Gain a
>proper understanding of it and
>then try again.

my original post was SARCASM...I realise that is sometimes hard to see in text, but dayum.

> Although
>there was a good representation
>of it, there were two
>laws of physics which the
>quotes didn't scientifically support.
>One was the law of
>thermodynamics. It didn't really
>go into how energy storage
>burns into heat in ANY
>way. There was another
>one as well which I
>forget but 2 out of
>like 9 isn't bad shooting
>on this part I will
>say well done.

You're joking, right? NONE of those indicate knowlege of laws of physics that any 2 year old doesn't have. I mean, if I say things fall down and not up, have I mastered the concept of gravity?

> One
>more thing pi is equal
>to approximately 3.14159.
> The
>taste of your foot in
>your mouth MUST be UNBEARABLE.

actually, I would ask you how that taste is
the fact that pi is irrational and MOST DEFINITELY NOT 3 is exactly the point I was going for (and what should have tipped you off on the sarcasm).

> IN
>A LANGUAGE BASED OFF LATIN
>SUCH AS ENGLISH HOW CAN
>ONE EXACTLY TRANSLATE EVERY WORD
>OF THE ARABIC LANGUAGE.
>THERE IS NO WAY.

While we are nit-picking, English isn't latin based. If you check, you'll find that although it can be called romance, it is generally refered to as GERMANIC. The original English is germanic...the Court adopted French way back in the days, and so many romance words have been infused. Hence the ABUNDANCE of synonims in English (most time one being romance, the other germanic). For instance, if I want to say I have had too much to drink, I may either say it in a gutteral (germanic) "I'm DRUNK", or I can use the flouty (romance) "I'm INEBRIATED".

Regardless, if you have found a path to your god, go 'head...I won't complain (until you and your god start fucking with me and mine). But PLEASE don't be trying to claim shit as logical and true when it JUST ISN'T.

>> Although
>>there was a good representation
>>of it, there were two
>>laws of physics which the
>>quotes didn't scientifically support.
>>One was the law of
>>thermodynamics. It didn't really
>>go into how energy storage
>>burns into heat in ANY
>>way. There was another
>>one as well which I
>>forget but 2 out of
>>like 9 isn't bad shooting
>>on this part I will
>>say well done.
>
>You're joking, right?...

>I mean, if I say
>things fall down and not
>up, have I mastered the
>concept of gravity?

In response to your inquiries...
No, I'm quite serious...and, yes, you have enough knowledge of gravity to get you through life. Congratulations...

My reasoning?....

If a two year old just learned that if he throws a ball or a rock up it won't stay there, then that two year old has learned all he needs to know about the state of things going up and falling down again. It is a primitive and simple one, but is it not true because it doesn't go into the specifics of large and small bodies? Why must things be so complex to be noted as INTELLIGENT..? Or TRUE...? What do humans really know? Only the things we can confirm by sight?! How is this true when even humans know, NOT only can we NOT see the entire spectrum of light, which is used to reflect into our eyes so that we may SEE objects in front of us (basically saying there may be existing things around us we can't se ), BUT we the way we interpret things into our occulars is even UPSIDE-DOWN!

So I ask you again...What do humans really know?!?

But on your statement made between the questions...

>NONE of
>those indicate knowlege of laws
>of physics that any 2
>year old doesn't have.

True. They were simplistically stated laws...considering the time period the Bible was originally written, I think this was a tactic used by God's prophets and scribes which was right on the money. Simplicity. Mankind didn't yet explore the VAST EXPANSE OF NATURAL RULES WE REFER TO AS SCIENTIFIC STUDY yet. So why not present natural laws in terms the people you are trying to deliver them to can understand?

Only a fool would spend an entire book dedicated to describing a reference to one of the laws set in place by Jehovah when the book the actual reference is in, has an entirely separate topic.

>> One
>>more thing pi is equal
>>to approximately 3.14159.
>> The
>>taste of your foot in
>>your mouth MUST be UNBEARABLE.
>
>actually, I would ask you how
>that taste is
>the fact that pi is irrational
>and MOST DEFINITELY NOT 3
>is exactly the point I
>was going for (and what
>should have tipped you off
>on the sarcasm).

I don't know you from a bean, buddy. How was this supposed to tip me to your writing style being a sarcastic one? As a matter of fact many others couldn't tell your intentions as well.

>>IN
>>A LANGUAGE BASED OFF LATIN
>>SUCH AS ENGLISH HOW CAN
>>ONE EXACTLY TRANSLATE EVERY WORD
>>OF THE ARABIC LANGUAGE.
>>THERE IS NO WAY.
>
>While we are nit-picking, English isn't
>latin based. If you
>check, you'll find that although
>it can be called romance,
>it is generally refered to
>as GERMANIC. The original
>English is germanic...the Court adopted
>French way back in the
>days, and so many romance
>words have been infused.
>Hence the ABUNDANCE of synonims
>in English (most time one
>being romance, the other germanic).
> For instance, if I
>want to say I have
>had too much to drink,
>I may either say it
>in a gutteral (germanic) "I'm
>DRUNK", or I can use
>the flouty (romance) "I'm INEBRIATED".

Ok so what is Germanic a derivative of?

>Regardless, if you have found a
>path to your god, go
>'head...I won't complain (until you
>and your god start fucking
>with me and mine).
>But PLEASE don't be trying
>to claim shit as logical
>and true when it JUST
>ISN'T.

My latter point is this....I'm still looking...does that mean I don't believe in God, no. Does that mean I don't believe in the Bible...No, thing is I need to differentiate the difference between the next man's interpretation and philosophy and my own.

This once again can only be done by interpreting the ORIGINAL TEXT. Which could take YEARS.

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> In
>response to your inquiries...
> No,
>I'm quite serious...and, yes, you
>have enough knowledge of gravity
>to get you through life.
>Congratulations...
>
> My
>reasoning?....
>
> If
>a two year old just
>learned that if he throws
>a ball or a rock
>up it won't stay there,
>then that two year old
>has learned all he needs
>to know about the state
>of things going up and
>falling down again. It
>is a primitive and simple
>one, but is it not
>true because it doesn't go
>into the specifics of large
>and small bodies? Why
>must things be so complex
>to be noted as INTELLIGENT..?
> Or TRUE...?

They don't have to be complex to be intelligent or true...but if you are trying to prove something is unique to the bible, make sure it is unique. As I noted, ANY child could tell you the same laws noted in the article. So what does that say about the people trying to use those verses from the bible as proof that it was divinely inspired? It says that their only real requirement is that the verses were written by someone that has been alive long enough to write. Gee whiz.

What
>do humans really know?
>Only the things we can
>confirm by sight?! How
>is this true when even
>humans know, NOT only can
>we NOT see the entire
>spectrum of light, which is
>used to reflect into our
>eyes so that we may
>SEE objects in front of
>us (basically saying there may
>be existing things around us
>we can't se ), BUT we
>the way we interpret things
>into our occulars is even
>UPSIDE-DOWN!
>
> So
>I ask you again...What do
>humans really know?!?

Ummmm...you are making some logical mistakes here. But I'm not going to post-jack my own post. If you want to discuss the particulars of physics and what humans know, hit me up or make a new post.


> True.
> They were simplistically stated
>laws...considering the time period the
>Bible was originally written, I
>think this was a tactic
>used by God's prophets and
>scribes which was right on
>the money. Simplicity.
>Mankind didn't yet explore the
>VAST EXPANSE OF NATURAL RULES
>WE REFER TO AS SCIENTIFIC
>STUDY yet. So why
>not present natural laws in
>terms the people you are
>trying to deliver them to
>can understand?
>
> Only
>a fool would spend an
>entire book dedicated to describing
>a reference to one of
>the laws set in place
>by Jehovah when the book
>the actual reference is in,
>has an entirely separate topic.

If I'm trying to prove something UNIQUE about the bible, I would definitely put something UNIQUE in tha muphucka.

> I
>don't know you from a
>bean, buddy. How was
>this supposed to tip me
>to your writing style being
>a sarcastic one? As
>a matter of fact many
>others couldn't tell your intentions
>as well.

consider the chances that I DON'T know that pi isn't 3 versus the chances I was fucking around. If you want more, I'm getting common around here (I think, anyway)...the level of intelligence you granted me in this post is certainly not indicative of what I've posted on the regular.

>Ok so what is Germanic a
>derivative of?

It is a completely different family from romance. I'm not sure where you are going with this. Most language scholars would tell you it is its own family entirely (meaning it is its own derivative). All language has the same root if you go back far enough (read the language part in this http://www.innerx.net/personal/tsmith/oldciv.html if you need further clarification), but you are talking about FAR.

after reading this again, I take even MORE issue with what you just said:

> True.
> They were simplistically stated
>laws...considering the time period the
>Bible was originally written, I
>think this was a tactic
>used by God's prophets and
>scribes which was right on
>the money. Simplicity.
>Mankind didn't yet explore the
>VAST EXPANSE OF NATURAL RULES
>WE REFER TO AS SCIENTIFIC
>STUDY yet. So why
>not present natural laws in
>terms the people you are
>trying to deliver them to
>can understand?
>
> Only
>a fool would spend an
>entire book dedicated to describing
>a reference to one of
>the laws set in place
>by Jehovah when the book
>the actual reference is in,
>has an entirely separate topic.

Lets see...at the "time" that the bible was written, we had already seen Egyptians and many other civilizations demonstrate very complex and intricate knowlege of science and math...I think it is kinda insulting that you bestow moronic status on those that would be reading. Of course EVERYONE wouldn't be able to understand anything intricate, but the people that don't know any better aren't generally the hard ones to sway...and something complex in the bible would do WONDERS for converting those that do know better. Alas, such a thing is missing...

I'm out for the evening (hopefully)...gotta go watch Tulsa kick UTEP in the teef.

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

Just a thought regarding all this controversy on interpretation. Yes, translation sometimes must approximate meaning. But it's not always super-difficult. We have no word for that in our language? Well, we'll have to use more than one word to say that part of the sentence then. I hope this doesn't seem simplistic, but look at it this way - we have the original Hebrew and Greek of the Bible and the Arabic of the Qu'ran. If you stay awake at night wondering whether you aren't getting the right message because you're reading a translation, go to the source. Guess what? I don't know about the Qu'ran, but with the Bible, this is easier than taking years of language courses. It just takes some research. There are books and CD-ROMs in which you can compare the original with the translation by having the words used explained in detail. This is an invaluable tool for preachers, who you might have noticed every now and then like to say stuff like, "The Greek word Paul uses is..." This is part of what you call exegesis. For more information, try doing a search on that word.

ok, while it's dope that everyone is throwing in their information, I noticed something. Several cats are saying that there aren't words in English for the orginal Arabic text in the Q'uran (which is true, and doesn't mean in the translated text that the Q'uran has been altered, because it hasn't... one of the reasons why it is gaurded with the lives of Mulsims to this day, ask Rushdie how serious that ish is...). What I have also noticed is no one has pointed out the cute little make up words that Christians have adopted, you know, words that are not in the Bible that they hold so dearly, like...um I dunno...
CHRISTIAN... can anyone (since we are so in tune with the scriptures) find me, a page, a passage, a thought, as to where it says Christian or Christianity in the Bible, the Old Testament (where it wouldn't exist obviously) or the New Testament (where it would exist if it were supposed to...). Anywhere? Spare me the explanation on what it means, just point out to me where it is in the book. Since we are taking it there, anyone care to explain on two additional topics (since I know it doesn't exist in the book, and yes to all those ignorites, Muslim is in the Koran, and the Bible for that matter...), one, Christ and him faking his death (Judas walk free after snitching, I doubt it...), and the three different Jesus mentioned in the Bible (they are theories, but not unlike anything I have read from anyone of you cats... sooo)...and please spare me again with the foolish rantings of someone who has been brainwashed by his momma, just the intellectual comments please, anyone could by a Take6 album and go from there ok??? Thanks to all that are really trying to build and not destroy...

I only ask about that word because I have learned that anything that is true, will be true, anything that is .... well you get the picture, and for the record, I haven't declared any religion or any religious background... I have read all the books in question and am trying to learn everyday like everyone should be ( I would hope ), we are all correct, and we are all wrong, but somewhere along the line we meet.... peace...

>What I have also noticed
>is no one has pointed
>out the cute little make
>up words that Christians have
>adopted, you know, words that
>are not in the Bible
>that they hold so dearly,
>like...um I dunno...
>CHRISTIAN... can anyone (since we are
>so in tune with the
>scriptures) find me, a page,
>a passage, a thought, as
>to where it says Christian
>or Christianity in the Bible,
>the Old Testament (where it
>wouldn't exist obviously) or the
>New Testament (where it would
>exist if it were supposed
>to...). Anywhere? Spare me
>the explanation on what it
>means, just point out to
>me where it is in
>the book.

Actually, if you don't want to accept my response to this question, I can't do nuttin for ya, man. If you want verses for the titles I mentioned, here are a few: Romans 1:1, Romans 1:6, Galatians 1:2, 2 Corinthians 1:1, Galatians 3:26, Ephesians 3:1, Philippians 4:21, James 2:1... I'm gonna stop. Point is, none of these verses will satisfy you, because of your strange desire to see a word not yet invented in these writings. Of course, if your desire is to see proof that Bible sees Jesus as God, some of these verses will help you (see also Philippians 3:5-11, 1 John 4:15, etc., etc.). Otherwise, realize nobody will argue with you on this bizarre point and I don't know why it would prove anything to anyone but you.

>Since we
>are taking it there, anyone
>care to explain on two
>additional topics (since I know
>it doesn't exist in the
>book, and yes to all
>those ignorites, Muslim is in
>the Koran, and the Bible
>for that matter...),

Pleas, PLEASE, tell me you're joking. The word Muslim as it is used today cannot be found before the 6th or 7th century (whenever Mohammed was alive). You can say Islam has been around forever, I could make that claim for Christianity, but we both know these religions begin to take their current shape with the prophet in the 600's and the messiah at the beginning of the milennium.

>one, Christ
>and him faking his death
>(Judas walk free after snitching,
>I doubt it...),

No point in talking about it if you're not gonna present evidence.

>and the
>three different Jesus mentioned in
>the Bible (they are theories,
>but not unlike anything I
>have read from anyone of
>you cats... sooo)

1. Where in the Bible?
2. Which theories?

>...and please spare
>me again with the foolish
>rantings of someone who has
>been brainwashed by his momma,
>just the intellectual comments please,
>anyone could by a Take6
>album and go from there
>ok??? Thanks to all that
>are really trying to build
>and not destroy...

You really like ending off your posts in this manner. Care to give you a few examples of these unintellectual comments you seem to be swimming through in your quest for good conversation...? Actually, please attend to my previous questions before you do...

no need to get snippy bra, really. The point is simple, while your answers do not satisfy me (cause you act as if only you have read the Bible...) my point is made, it is not in the Bible, and what faith do you belong to that tell you that Christ is GOD, even he said in the Bible he is the son/sun... so now you are taking his words and distorting them? Let's see, the Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Protestants, all recognize him as the son you know the statement don't you wise one "he gave his only begotten son/sun"? and then you tell me he is God, well make up your mind, is he Christ or is he God? And like I said in my post, it is a theory, the theory goes (and I'm suprised someone who acts like you has never heard of this...strange really) that Judas and Jesus looked alike (as mentioned in both the Bible and the Koran) and it was Judas on the cross which is why his statements are not as faithful as before "oh why has tho foresaketh thee???", you see Judas talking there. I don't have my book with me, but I will gladly (in a later post, hopefully today...) point that out too you, using examples, no problem at all... trust me this didn't start with me wise one. Now, make up your mind, is he the holy ghost too??? If he were God, do you think the Romans would have caught him? Or what your trying to say is he is soooooo symbolic that he gave his life to them, only to come back again, and leave again, to say he is coming back again... makes no fucking sense my man. None. I can't believe you are taking your statements this seriously? Maybe your the one who needs to read it again. The definition of a Muslim is one who worships God and God only, so I ask you if Christ was God, then who was HE praying to??? Islam is a kemetic way of life, what you are thinking of is the Koran, that didn't come until later, because everytime a book was given, the Kaballah, The Torah, the Bible, it was distorted, read out of context, and simply not followed correctly, that is why God chose Mohammed, to get the teachings out there again. Remeber the people of Abraham didn't listen, the people of Moses didn't listen, and the people of Christ's time didn't listen either. If you take the time to actually read the Koran (I don't know if you had so I won't assume), you will find that it has the same passages as do the Bible (depending on which version of the Bible you read) including the stories about Christ...that is also why Muslims will defend their book with their lives, so it can't be re-written as the Bible was with King James (yes, the cokehead illiterate pettifile). But don't say he is God, that wuold make all your statements seem silly my friend, you know, that father, the son, the holy ghost...

Wow...

after reading this whole saga I just have to say...

peoke7 if you're looking for a word in a holy book, I suggest you try something called a concordance for the Bible. It literally catalogues every word that is mentioned in the Bible according to the translation and tells you where it is. If you want to get deep, I'd suggest you check out the original Greek. The word "christian" is actually mentioned and defined in Acts 11:26.

Wow, as for your speaking on Islam, it sounds like you've really racialized it. True Islam deals with the heart, not the melanin, so why are you so quick to ask others what color introduced a religion/philosophy to them? Islam stood and existed way before modern ideas of race or modern slavery. Slavery is mentioned, condemned and chronicled in the Q'uran, Bible and Torah as are many other types of persecution.

I encourage you to continue your study and broaden your horizons...

when did I say anything about color, please point that out to me if you can...

oh yeah, and if anythings origin of Greek origin, then that automatically proves to me it is fake, cause these events took place in Africa, with African tongues, so how would anything be of Greek origin???

if I did ask that question (I don't know I will have to look again) it is becuase of the European concept of Christianity and Islam, being forced upon us, as opposed to us taking time for ourselves to come to our own conclusion... that's really all it is, I just don't see how the same people who helped finance the slave trade, are now the so called elitists when it comes to the Holy Books, please, you have to live it not preach it...

>if I did ask that question
>(I don't know I will
>have to look again) it
>is becuase of the European
>concept of Christianity and Islam,
>being forced upon us, as
>opposed to us taking time
>for ourselves to come to
>our own conclusion... that's really
>all it is, I just
>don't see how the same
>people who helped finance the
>slave trade, are now the
>so called elitists when it
>comes to the Holy Books,
>please, you have to live
>it not preach it...

Right...wait up a minute and I will answer your questions...

1. When did you mention color?

a) "peace to both of you brothers (or sisters I'm not sure???), and thanks for responding... the word Muslim is in the Q'uran, as far as the Arabic term to describe blacks I'm not sure, considering all the prophets were black, I don't think this was a issue, on top of that (I'm guessing, but I hope I make sense here) the issue of race didn't seem to become a issue (remember, the Egyptian schools did allow 'some' outsiders...) until the Roman Empire came about. "

b) "Christianity and Islam are both African religions, perhaps how it was presented to you was by a non-black, I'm not sure, I know how those missionaries are out there... but Christianity to me is no different than hip-hop, what was our lifestyle, has become exploited (hell you can't even watch a damn commercial without them throwing in a beat), confusing"


Also, you just said, "it is because of the European
concept of Christianity and Islam, being forced upon us, as
opposed to us taking time for ourselves to come to
our own conclusion," and I agree that it is up to us to read and study. Please notice that I answered your original question about the word "Christian" in the Bible. Did you check out Acts 11:26?

Finally, scholars hold that the Bible was originally written in Greek and that many translations are just translations of translations. Still other scholars say that it was written in Hebrew so that's another suggestion if you would like a more direct interpretation of the exact words that are in the Bible.

Yes, if you believe that Africans wrote the holy books and that the prophets were black, what language did they write in? Africa is a CONTINENT, not a language and there are many Africans that wrote in Greek (Virgil for instance).

Hope you didn't take that as an attack, I was just answering your questions and challenging your statements.

no offense taken, in fact, I am priveledged that you are taking the time to actually answer my question. You see, the original Hebrews were Ethiopian, African, this isn't a racist slur of any kind it is a fact. Scholars are liars, point blank, the original bible couldn't have been written in Greek, because all the prophets were Black, and did not speak Greek tongue, remember the Greeks came to Egypt to learn (Aristotle, Socrates) not the other way around. In fact, they were known as being, well, not as smart as the world claims them to be. The original books were in Hebrew, African tongue. It doesn't stop there, there were many African languages being spoken, not just one...
you see, the fact that the Bible talks about the struggle in Egypt is a clear indication of the affect white scholars have had on the world, because what you are saying is the Egyptians were intelligent enough to build the pyramid, yet dependant enough to were they learned and spoke Greek? Doesn't make a ounce of sense. It's no different then the picture of Christ that everyone is used to seeing, pure bs. It's just propaganda for real. That wasn't a racist slur at all, but white people are used to being in charge, and thinking that their logic is the ultimate voice of reason, which is a clear sign of suffering from a superiority complex ya see?
So of course they wanted us to believe he looked like them, spoke like them, and was of them. Pure bs. The entire Bible took place in Africa, and contrary to popular belief, the savages were the Romans, I mean, they were trying to kill Christ weren't they??? The reason why I know it wasn't originally written in Greek is because that is saying, ok they saviour (if that's what you believe he was...) was African, so were his followers, and so were the people before him, yet it took the Greeks to document it? Please... you would have to start naming names, dates, and times. I will read it, but what version of the Bible are you referencing, The Living Word, King James (which we know the history on his perverted ass so...), please indicate which version, if I own it I will follow up, if I don't I wil go and get it. Thanks again for responding, good looking out...

>no offense taken, in fact, I
>am priveledged that you are
>taking the time to actually
>answer my question. You
>see, the original Hebrews were
>Ethiopian, African, this isn't a
>racist slur of any kind
>it is a fact.

About earlier, I wasn't trying to get hostile, i just thought all your talk about Take 6 and Kirk Franklin suggested i hadn't said anything worth considering. Yes, there is evidence of the African origin of the Hebrew people; after stating this, you get confused.

>Scholars are liars, point blank,
>the original bible couldn't have
>been written in Greek, because
>all the prophets were Black,
>and did not speak Greek
>tongue, remember the Greeks came
>to Egypt to learn (Aristotle,
>Socrates) not the other way
>around. In fact, they
>were known as being, well,
>not as smart as the
>world claims them to be.

The fact that the Greeks learned from great African civilizations is a wonderful thing to point out to people, but you've become confused about origins of and European thoughts on the Bible. When you say prophets, you must be talking about the Old Testament which was, as you point out below, written in Hebrew, a fact NO scholar contests; as for the other African languages, the only other language used in the Old Testament is Aramaic, which, by the way, was the everyday language used in Jesus' time.

> The original books were
>in Hebrew, African tongue.
>It doesn't stop there, there
>were many African languages being
>spoken, not just one...
>you see, the fact that the
>Bible talks about the struggle
>in Egypt is a clear
>indication of the affect white
>scholars have had on the
>world, because what you are
>saying is the Egyptians were
>intelligent enough to build the
>pyramid, yet dependant enough to
>were they learned and spoke
>Greek?

Part of the Bible you're referring to: written by a Hebrew (Israelite, Jew, etc.) in Hebrew.

>Doesn't make a ounce
>of sense. It's no
>different then the picture of
>Christ that everyone is used
>to seeing, pure bs.
>It's just propaganda for real.
> That wasn't a racist
>slur at all, but white
>people are used to being
>in charge, and thinking that
>their logic is the ultimate
>voice of reason, which is
>a clear sign of suffering
>from a superiority complex ya
>see?
>So of course they wanted us
>to believe he looked like
>them, spoke like them, and
>was of them. Pure
>bs. The entire Bible
>took place in Africa, and
>contrary to popular belief, the
>savages were the Romans, I
>mean, they were trying to
>kill Christ weren't they???
>The reason why I know
>it wasn't originally written in
>Greek is because that is
>saying, ok they saviour (if
>that's what you believe he
>was...) was African, so were
>his followers, and so were
>the people before him, yet
>it took the Greeks to
>document it?

Here is your most confused part. Jesus spoke Aramaic; no one says he spoke (at least on an everyday basis) Greek. The entire Bible did not take place in Africa. The parts in Egypt and what is now Ethiopia did (ie. possibly the Queen of Sheba parts). Most of the Bible takes place in what later became Palestine (also: present day Iraq - Babylon, Turkey - Asia Minor, Italy - Rome, etc.). Check any Bible with maps inside; in fact, check any map, as I'm sure you know Jerusalem is not in Africa. Now for the last part of your confusion. The New Testament IS in Greek. However, you're off track talking about "it took the greeks to document it?" The Greeks didn't. The four writers of the Gospels are all Jews, if I remember correctly. But by this time, the area they live in is part of the Roman Empire. At the time of the writing of the New Testament, the language of learning was Greek. That is why the New Testament is in Greek. In fact, they say if you read Mark in the original Greek, you can see his bad grammar or command of the language, whereas Luke (a doctor) writes in very good Greek.

>Please... you would
>have to start naming names,
>dates, and times. I
>will read it, but what
>version of the Bible are
>you referencing, The Living Word,
>King James (which we know
>the history on his perverted
>ass so...), please indicate which
>version, if I own it
>I will follow up, if
>I don't I wil go
>and get it. Thanks
>again for responding, good looking
>out...

About ENGLISH versions, all I have to say is, while it is possible people twisted the Bible to fit their own ideology (obviously people love to say this about the KJV, as the slave trade was going on by the time it was done), why has there been no articles, papers, or studies showing that? As far as I know, the DIRECT translation that has been shown to have the most faults is the Jehovah's Witness Bible. If anyone knows of anything showing a translation's twisting of words in the original, I would like to know about it. I am NOT trying to discourage critical discussion of the issue.