Last week, I was watching an episode of "Sally Jesse Rapheal", titled; "Gay to Straight". This subject was very interesting to me. I have never really seen this issue of homosexuality, discussed in such a manner. The guest that she had on her show, talked about homosexuality, as if it were, "alcoholism!!! I really like to know, if it is just that simple??? I always thought that it was something within a person from birth.

I just, really would like to know what your opinion as to whether homosexuality can be put in the same category as alcholism??? Can a person truly go from gay to straight??? Are they just kidding themselves???...Personally...I don't think so, but I could be wrong???


*************MUSICAL QUOTES**************

"Speak low, when you speak love"--Billie Holiday

"FREEZE!!!...Everybody clap your hands"!!!--Casper

"Mama, come here quick..and bring that lickin' stick!!!"--James Brown

"Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. I don't care what Mama don't 'llow...I mo' play my music anyhow."--nostalgia

Here is a link for yo :

http://weblog2000.com/barneyskidspag/flash/Iloveyou.html

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

the guy who is the spokesman for this movement was spotted in a gay bar in my neighborhood hitting on a man- he denied it, but someone took pics, so he came back and issued a public apology

the whole conversion movement, in my mind, is based on a lotta self hatred. sad.




==**peace**==

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

That whole psychiatric genre ("reparative therapy") has been debunked. Take a look at Andrew Sullivan's second book, Love Undetectable. His second essay deals with this in detail and is quite well written.


Peace.

I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
I awoke and saw that life was service,
I acted and, behold, service was joy.

-- Rabindranath Tagaore

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

>Last week, I was watching an
>episode of "Sally Jesse Rapheal",
>titled; "Gay to Straight".
>This subject was very interesting
>to me. I have
>never really seen this issue
>of homosexuality, discussed in such
>a manner. The guest
>that she had on her
>show, talked about homosexuality, as
>if it were, "alcoholism!!!
>I really like to know,
>if it is just that
>simple??? I always thought
>that it was something within
>a person from birth.
>
>I just, really would like to
>know what your opinion as
>to whether homosexuality can be
>put in the same category
>as alcholism??? Can a
>person truly go from gay
>to straight??? Are they
>just kidding themselves???...Personally...I don't think
>so, but I could be
>wrong???
>

No, it's not that simple. I tried to go the straight and narrow, when I was 24 didn't work(was trying to please my mother and father, but those dreams and wishes failed when I picked up this kid, and we ended back at his crib and he gave me a mean blow job. I'm talking the rockwilder type blowjob. No joke). It's not that easy, and it's not worth denying yourself. So, it really can't be cured.

Silk.
Peace

silk.later

http://soulodyssey.podbean.com/ My new podcast. That's right, i'm baaaaaaacccckkk !!!!!

But I do wonder, are there any exceptions??? Some of those people on "Sally's" show, sounded very sincere. Do you think that they are just kidding themselves???


*************MUSICAL QUOTES**************

"Speak low, when you speak love"--Billie Holiday

"FREEZE!!!...Everybody clap your hands"!!!--Casper

"Mama, come here quick..and bring that lickin' stick!!!"--James Brown

"Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. I don't care what Mama don't 'llow...I mo' play my music anyhow."--nostalgia

Here is a link for yo :

http://weblog2000.com/barneyskidspag/flash/Iloveyou.html

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

The people on those daytime talk shows are often if not always actors. At the very least they are told to put the spin on their story that the show wants to present.

I used to be friends with a woman whose husband recruited people for those shows as part of his business. She was always calling up friends and saying, "Can you be a ....?"

Remember that you're watching television. Television isn't about truth, it's about sales.

Peace.

I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
I awoke and saw that life was service,
I acted and, behold, service was joy.

-- Rabindranath Tagaore

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

but, most of the talk shows coincide with reality. I am pretty sure most of them do. People, in this world really do pretty much anything that you can think of, so the talk shows have a very wide range of subject to choose from and turn fiction into real-life situations.


*************MUSICAL QUOTES**************

"Speak low, when you speak love"--Billie Holiday

"FREEZE!!!...Everybody clap your hands"!!!--Casper

"Mama, come here quick..and bring that lickin' stick!!!"--James Brown

"Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. I don't care what Mama don't 'llow...I mo' play my music anyhow."--nostalgia

Here is a link for yo :

http://weblog2000.com/barneyskidspag/flash/Iloveyou.html

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

If the show wants to present people as having been "converted" or whatever, then the obvious complications and doubts that even a truly changed person would have would not come up or be discussed.

I really do recommend Sullivan's essay on this. I think we can convince yourself of anything for a period of time, if we are sufficiently motivated, but I also think that denying such an essential aspect of our humanity is bound to lead to significant problems eventually.

Peace.

I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
I awoke and saw that life was service,
I acted and, behold, service was joy.

-- Rabindranath Tagaore

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

Is it on the internet...if so, I would like to take a look at it. I haven't had a lot of time to read any books, in detail lately...But if it is on the net, I could take a look at it.


*************MUSICAL QUOTES**************

"Speak low, when you speak love"--Billie Holiday

"FREEZE!!!...Everybody clap your hands"!!!--Casper

"Mama, come here quick..and bring that lickin' stick!!!"--James Brown

"Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. I don't care what Mama don't 'llow...I mo' play my music anyhow."--nostalgia

Here is a link for yo :

http://weblog2000.com/barneyskidspag/flash/Iloveyou.html

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

It is only available in print format.

Peace.

I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
I awoke and saw that life was service,
I acted and, behold, service was joy.

-- Rabindranath Tagaore

~ ~ ~
All meetings end in separation
All acquisition ends in dispersion
All life ends in death
- The Buddha

|\_/|
='_'=

Every hundred years, all new people

I see what you're saying, they do sound sincere BUT think of it this way: assuming you're straight- how easy would it be for you to turn around and become completely gay? Not very, right? I think this is a joke, and these people are so desperate to be accepted by society/family/friends/themselves that they'll live a lie and even start believing it to get it. If you ask me, a passionless lifestyle is very boring...

On the otherhand, who knows? Maybe these people are bisexual and find a life in the oppposite sex and decided to stick with it??? However, I doubt it...

"I sip Dom P watchin' Gandhi 'till I'm charged and writin' in my book of rhymes, all the words pass the margin" -Nas
http://purpledork.diaryland.com

*************MUSICAL QUOTES**************

"Speak low, when you speak love"--Billie Holiday

"FREEZE!!!...Everybody clap your hands"!!!--Casper

"Mama, come here quick..and bring that lickin' stick!!!"--James Brown

"Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. I don't care what Mama don't 'llow...I mo' play my music anyhow."--nostalgia

Here is a link for yo :

http://weblog2000.com/barneyskidspag/flash/Iloveyou.html

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

*************MUSICAL QUOTES**************

"Speak low, when you speak love"--Billie Holiday

"FREEZE!!!...Everybody clap your hands"!!!--Casper

"Mama, come here quick..and bring that lickin' stick!!!"--James Brown

"Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. I don't care what Mama don't 'llow...I mo' play my music anyhow."--nostalgia

Here is a link for yo :

http://weblog2000.com/barneyskidspag/flash/Iloveyou.html

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

changing over to homosexuality. I have seen some people do it and I was very surprised. But I like things just the way they are.


*************MUSICAL QUOTES**************

"Speak low, when you speak love"--Billie Holiday

"FREEZE!!!...Everybody clap your hands"!!!--Casper

"Mama, come here quick..and bring that lickin' stick!!!"--James Brown

"Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. I don't care what Mama don't 'llow...I mo' play my music anyhow."--nostalgia

Here is a link for yo :

http://weblog2000.com/barneyskidspag/flash/Iloveyou.html

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

Hey you can't lump all daytime talk shows together, some are more credible than others.

>The people on those daytime talk
>shows are often if not
>always actors.

Nah they are usually not actors...fake guests are frequent but usually just regular folks who were invited to play along, not actors. I think they try to find real guests for a given topic if possible, but if they can't then they fill in those holes with fakers. But it varies from show to show.

>At least very least they are told
>to put the spin on
>their story that the show
>wants to present.

Right.. most of those guests are at least semi-real, but coached and directed. They are usually real but embellished.

>Remember that you're watching television.
>Television isn't about truth, it's
>about sales.

come on, come on That's true for some shows, not all. The issue here is you gotta distinguish "news" shows from "entertainment" shows, and remember daytime talk is entertainment. I mean, when you watch Nightline or 60 Minutes you can be confident they did not knowingly book an actor. Why do I always feel this need to defend television?

And oh yeah, that conversion therapy stuff is nonsense.

Jay Smooth
WBAI 99.5 FM in NY
http://www.hiphopmusic.com

"A smile is the chosen vehicle for all ambiguities" - Herman Melville

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

dave letterman uses a prompter was a sad, sad, sad day



==**peace**==

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

...in one of these gay to straight cults...damn shame...its brainwashing if you ask me...


Why would God have given you in life a questioning mind if not to hand to you in death the blinding answers!!!

AIM Carmel3494 say ure okp

bismillah

i believe that it is easy to go to straight from gay.
the islamic view is that homosexuality is a CHOICE. i believe this to be true.
the person who said he tried to go straight "for mom and dad", was not sucessful b/c of the reason for doing it. it was nt b/c "he" iwanted to, but b/c his "parents" wanted him to. imagine if you listened to and LOVED music and you tried to stop for "the folks". you wouldnt stop b/c its something you love, and are not willing to give it up just b/c of "the folks".
who would get rid of a girlfriend/boyfriend for "the folks". nobody, unless his love and respect for his parents was more than the love for the person.
same with drugs. who is willing to give up weed for "the folks"?
all of these things are choices, and are not hereditary, not from birth, not from nothing, except the persons desire.


here is an article written by a very knowledgeable muslim by the name of bilal philips.
pay special attention to #6.

Islam's Position on Homosexuality


Homosexuality and lesbianism have been dubbed �alternative life-styles�, �personal preference�, �a natural variation�, etc. in the West today. Where homosexuality was considered an illness by the Association of Psychiatrists, it is now removed from the list and replaced by homophobia (the dislike of homosexuals and homosexuality). Consequently, Islam and Muslims are considered intolerant and biased due to their continued opposition. Arguments in favor of tolerance to homosexuals are based on the assumption that homosexual behavior is biologically based and not merely learned from society.

1. Early opposition to homosexuality was based on the argument that such behavior was unnatural. Sodomy cannot produce children which is one of the main natural consequences of sexual relations. �Mother Nature� did not make us that way, it was argued. To counter such arguments homosexual researchers scoured the earth until they found supposed homosexual behavior among the animal kingdom. They found that the males of some species of exotic fishes off the coast of Japan imitated the behavior of females of the species in order to prevent other males from impregnating their mates, and some rare butterflies from islands of the coast of Africa also had males exhibiting female behavior during mating season, etc. However, if the animal kingdom is to be used to justify human behavior, there also exists a spider in South America, whose female is much larger than the male. When mating is complete, the female eats her mate.

2. During the 80�s it was claimed that a gland in the base of the brain which is small in women and large in men was found to be small among homosexuals. However, this evidence, while seeming incontrovertible to the layman, was immediately refuted by scientists. The data was taken from cross-sections of the brains of dead adult humans whose sexual preference was identified prior to death. Consequently, the reduced size among homosexuals could have been a result of the practice and not its cause. That is, they could have been born with normal sized glands which then became small due to their deviant lifestyle.

3. Recently genetics has become the most commonly used foundation for the pro-gay argument. In 1993 Dr. Dean Hamer, a researcher at the National Cancer Institute, claimed to have discovered �the first concrete evidence that �gay genes� really do exist.� Homosexual orientation was supposedly transmitted to males on the X chromosome from the mother. Hamer�s findings, published in the prestigious journal Science, transformed his colorless career as a government scientist into a dynamic media personality and penned his memoirs. He gave expert testimony to the Colorado Supreme Court that formed the basis of the victorious decision striking down anti-gay Proposition 2. However, a replication of his study at the University of Western Ontario failed to find any linkage whatsoever between the X chromosome and sexual orientation. It was also found that Hamer�s study lacked a control group; a fundamental principle of scientific research. Furthermore, in June 1994, the Chicago Tribune reported that a junior researcher in Hamer�s laboratory who assisted in the gene mapping in the homosexuality study, alleged that he selectively reported his data. She was then summarily dismissed from her post-doctoral fellowship in Hamer�s lab. But a National Institutes of Health investigation substantiated her claims and gave her another position in a different lab. Though Dr. Hamer was coy about his own sexuality in his memoirs, he later admitted in his lectures that he was gay.

4. It should be noted that Islam, in its final form, did not introduce anti-gay legislature to the world. The texts of the Torah are replete with clear condemnation of such practices.

5. he consequence of AIDS is enough to prove that homosexuality is evil and dangerous to society. The early spread of AIDS was concentrated among the homosexual community. It later spread to the heterosexual community through blood transfusions and intravenous drug usage and so-called bisexuals. And continues on a rampage among promiscuous heterosexuals.

6. Islam considers homosexuality to be the result of a choice. It is inconceivable that God made people homosexuals then declared it a crime and prescribed punishments for it in both this life and the next. To accept such a proposition is to accept that God is unjust. Inclinations can exist within humans for a variety of natural and unnatural acts, from fornication to rape and from necrophilia to bestiality. These inclinations may come from jinn-suggestions, media influence, or even from human whisperings or direct contact. Human beings are not like robots who only do what they are programmed to do. Humans choose and God holds them responsible for their choices. Were homosexuality a product of genetic destiny, it would be unfair for God to criminalize it and punish those who practice it. Currently, some scientists are even claiming that murder is of genetic origin. To accept that would mean to excuse murderers and tolerate murder.

7. Islam instructs parents to separate their children in their beds by the age of ten in order to avoid sexual experiences which may result from childhood experimentation. Such experiences may be reinforced by contacts in schools and through abuse from adults. Also the distinctions between male and female are strongly made in Islamic teachings. The Prophet cursed men who imitated women and women who imitated men. The Western fashion industry is controlled by homosexuals who attempt to blur the distinction between males and females in order to make their behavior more acceptable. Consequently, men�s fashion has become more feminine in style and color and women are now wearing three-piece suits, ties and hats and traditionally men�s shoes. These distinctions may be relative and vary from society to society. For example, in Scotland men traditionally wear little knee-length dresses called �kilts�. In Scotland it would not be considered imitation of females, but in a society where only women wear such dress it would be considered imitation.


written by
Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips



subhakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

in your post. There are so many different theories about homosexuality, that it is really hard to know, which ones are real and which ones are not. I really don't know???


*************MUSICAL QUOTES**************

"Speak low, when you speak love"--Billie Holiday

"FREEZE!!!...Everybody clap your hands"!!!--Casper

"Mama, come here quick..and bring that lickin' stick!!!"--James Brown

"Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. I don't care what Mama don't 'llow...I mo' play my music anyhow."--nostalgia

Here is a link for yo :

http://weblog2000.com/barneyskidspag/flash/Iloveyou.html

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

take away all the theories youve heard about. and view the follwing the example below, w/ FACTUAL THINKING.


homsexuality is a choice, just like...
religion is a choice, just like...
racism is a choice, just like...
murder is a choice, just like...
sexual intercourse is a choice, just like...
shell-toe adidas are a choice, just like...
bigotry is a choice, just like...
lying is a choice, just like...
adultery is a choice, just like..........

now take all the theories, statements, etc,..youve heard about homosexuality NOT BEING A CHOICE, and plug in any of the above variables into the place of "homosexuality", and see what you come up w/.

if heterosexuality was not the norm and nature of human beings,
homosexuals would not have partners to engage in homosexuality with, right?

so obvoiusly homosexuality is a choice, and choices can change!!!



subhakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

Do you think it could possibly be mental. What about morphodites, they have both sexes. It is natural. Do you think it is possible, that a person, other than a morphodite, could have male and female hormones within them???


*************MUSICAL QUOTES**************

"Speak low, when you speak love"--Billie Holiday

"FREEZE!!!...Everybody clap your hands"!!!--Casper

"Mama, come here quick..and bring that lickin' stick!!!"--James Brown

"Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. I don't care what Mama don't 'llow...I mo' play my music anyhow."--nostalgia

Here is a link for yo :

http://weblog2000.com/barneyskidspag/flash/Iloveyou.html

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

>bismillah
>
>i believe that it is easy
>to go to straight from
>gay.
>the islamic view is that homosexuality
>is a CHOICE. i believe
>this to be true.

I hear what your saying, but I didn't choose anything. By the way, I'm the one who tried to go straight to please my mother and father.
>the person who said he tried
>to go straight "for mom
>and dad", was not sucessful
>b/c of the reason for
>doing it.

Right. That was because it wasn't who I was. I wasn't straight,I was gay, and I knew this. And I tried to convert over, to shut them up. So, when it didn't work, they had to except the fact that I just wasn't going to be straight.


it was nt
>b/c "he" iwanted to, but
>b/c his "parents" wanted him
>to. imagine if you listened
>to and LOVED music and
>you tried to stop for
>"the folks". you wouldnt stop
>b/c its something you love,
>and are not willing to
>give it up just b/c
>of "the folks".
>who would get rid of a
>girlfriend/boyfriend for "the folks". nobody,
>unless his love and respect
>for his parents was more
>than the love for the
>person.
>same with drugs. who is willing
>to give up weed for
>"the folks"?
>all of these things are choices,
>and are not hereditary, not
>from birth, not from nothing,
>except the persons desire.

I don't know about it being hereditary,but I do know folks are what they are, and do what they do just because it's what they know. Human nature, maybe. But,you can't just snap your fingers and be straight if that's not in your nature. Bottom line is, I didn't choose anything. I felt this way since I was a child,and I honestly never really been emotionally attracted to women. Point blank. And I've had many chances to get busy, but wasn't with it. Oh well........
>
>
>here is an article written by
>a very knowledgeable muslim by
>the name of bilal philips.
>
>pay special attention to #6.
>
>Islam's Position on Homosexuality
>
>
> Homosexuality and
>lesbianism have been dubbed �alternative
>life-styles�, �personal preference�, �a natural
>variation�, etc. in the West
>today. Where homosexuality was considered
>an illness by the Association
>of Psychiatrists, it is now
>removed from the list and
>replaced by homophobia (the dislike
>of homosexuals and homosexuality). Consequently,
>Islam and Muslims are considered
>intolerant and biased due to
>their continued opposition. Arguments in
>favor of tolerance to homosexuals
>are based on the assumption
>that homosexual behavior is biologically
>based and not merely learned
>from society.
>
>1. Early opposition to homosexuality was
>based on the argument that
>such behavior was unnatural. Sodomy
>cannot produce children which is
>one of the main natural
>consequences of sexual relations. �Mother
>Nature� did not make us
>that way, it was argued.
>To counter such arguments homosexual
>researchers scoured the earth until
>they found supposed homosexual behavior
>among the animal kingdom. They
>found that the males of
>some species of exotic fishes
>off the coast of Japan
>imitated the behavior of females
>of the species in order
>to prevent other males from
>impregnating their mates, and some
>rare butterflies from islands of
>the coast of Africa also
>had males exhibiting female behavior
>during mating season, etc. However,
>if the animal kingdom is
>to be used to justify
>human behavior, there also exists
>a spider in South America,
>whose female is much larger
>than the male. When mating
>is complete, the female eats
>her mate.
>
>2. During the 80�s it was
>claimed that a gland in
>the base of the brain
>which is small in women
>and large in men was
>found to be small among
>homosexuals. However, this evidence, while
>seeming incontrovertible to the layman,
>was immediately refuted by scientists.
>The data was taken from
>cross-sections of the brains of
>dead adult humans whose sexual
>preference was identified prior to
>death. Consequently, the reduced size
>among homosexuals could have been
>a result of the practice
>and not its cause. That
>is, they could have been
>born with normal sized glands
>which then became small due
>to their deviant lifestyle.
>
>3. Recently genetics has become the
>most commonly used foundation for
>the pro-gay argument. In 1993
>Dr. Dean Hamer, a researcher
>at the National Cancer Institute,
>claimed to have discovered �the
>first concrete evidence that �gay
>genes� really do exist.� Homosexual
>orientation was supposedly transmitted to
>males on the X chromosome
>from the mother. Hamer�s findings,
>published in the prestigious journal
>Science, transformed his colorless career
>as a government scientist into
>a dynamic media personality and
>penned his memoirs. He gave
>expert testimony to the Colorado
>Supreme Court that formed the
>basis of the victorious decision
>striking down anti-gay Proposition 2.
>However, a replication of his
>study at the University of
>Western Ontario failed to find
>any linkage whatsoever between the
>X chromosome and sexual orientation.
>It was also found that
>Hamer�s study lacked a control
>group; a fundamental principle of
>scientific research. Furthermore, in June
>1994, the Chicago Tribune reported
>that a junior researcher in
>Hamer�s laboratory who assisted in
>the gene mapping in the
>homosexuality study, alleged that he
>selectively reported his data. She
>was then summarily dismissed from
>her post-doctoral fellowship in Hamer�s
>lab. But a National Institutes
>of Health investigation substantiated her
>claims and gave her another
>position in a different lab.
>Though Dr. Hamer was coy
>about his own sexuality in
>his memoirs, he later admitted
>in his lectures that he
>was gay.
>
>4. It should be noted that
>Islam, in its final form,
>did not introduce anti-gay legislature
>to the world. The texts
>of the Torah are replete
>with clear condemnation of such
>practices.
>
>5. he consequence of AIDS is
>enough to prove that homosexuality
>is evil and dangerous to
>society. The early spread of
>AIDS was concentrated among the
>homosexual community. It later spread
>to the heterosexual community through
>blood transfusions and intravenous drug
>usage and so-called bisexuals. And
>continues on a rampage among
>promiscuous heterosexuals.
>
>6. Islam considers homosexuality to be
>the result of a choice.
>It is inconceivable that God
>made people homosexuals then declared
>it a crime and prescribed
>punishments for it in both
>this life and the next.
>To accept such a proposition
>is to accept that God
>is unjust. Inclinations can exist
>within humans for a variety
>of natural and unnatural acts,
>from fornication to rape and
>from necrophilia to bestiality. These
>inclinations may come from jinn-suggestions,
>media influence, or even from
>human whisperings or direct contact.
>Human beings are not like
>robots who only do what
>they are programmed to do.
>Humans choose and God holds
>them responsible for their choices.
>Were homosexuality a product of
>genetic destiny, it would be
>unfair for God to criminalize
>it and punish those who
>practice it. Currently, some scientists
>are even claiming that murder
>is of genetic origin. To
>accept that would mean to
>excuse murderers and tolerate murder.
>
>
>7. Islam instructs parents to separate
>their children in their beds
>by the age of ten
>in order to avoid sexual
>experiences which may result from
>childhood experimentation. Such experiences may
>be reinforced by contacts in
>schools and through abuse from
>adults. Also the distinctions between
>male and female are strongly
>made in Islamic teachings. The
>Prophet cursed men who imitated
>women and women who imitated
>men. The Western fashion industry
>is controlled by homosexuals who
>attempt to blur the distinction
>between males and females in
>order to make their behavior
>more acceptable. Consequently, men�s fashion
>has become more feminine in
>style and color and women
>are now wearing three-piece suits,
>ties and hats and traditionally
>men�s shoes. These distinctions may
>be relative and vary from
>society to society. For example,
>in Scotland men traditionally wear
>little knee-length dresses called �kilts�.
>In Scotland it would not
>be considered imitation of females,
>but in a society where
>only women wear such dress
>it would be considered imitation.
>
>
>
>written by
>Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips
>
>
>
>subhakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa
>anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika
>

I've read this, and I'm gonna just keep my comments to myself LOL !!!!! But I will say this, I don't try to imitate women,cause I'm not one(I'm just a black man,who is attractive to men)and I'm not an animal, I'm a human being(c)The Elephant Man. LOL !!!! But, much respect anyway.

Silk.
Peace

silk.later

http://soulodyssey.podbean.com/ My new podcast. That's right, i'm baaaaaaacccckkk !!!!!

i do believe that homosexuality is a choice. once you love it, it will be hard to give up..you do it enough and it becomes part of what makes you the person you are now.. so, just like with addictions, you make excuses for why you do it in order to validate your actions.
"i was born this way"
"it chemical, genetic..etc"

good point.
***********
i was boooorrrrn to love u
i was boooorrrrn to lick your face
i was boooorrrrn to rub u
but u were born to rub me 1st
(c) Chevy Chase in Caddyshack

>i do believe that homosexuality is
>a choice. once you love
>it, it will be hard
>to give up..you do it
>enough and it becomes part
>of what makes you the
>person you are now.. so,
>just like with addictions, you
>make excuses for why you
>do it in order to
>validate your actions.
>"i was born this way"
>"it chemical, genetic..etc"
>
>good point.

how easy is it for you to make a judgement about something which you are not. i knew i liked girls when i was NINE. i did not know ANY OTHER female or male who felt that way nor had i ever heard the word gay or lesbian nor had i seen any adult act in a 'gay' fashion on tv or in movies. as far as i was concerned, i was completely alone. all i knew is that i was attracted to both boys and girls and had the same types of thoughts/feelings about both and that has never changed. just because YOU believe otherwise, doesn't make it true.


Damali, aka She Hate Me

Underground Railroad w/Jay Smooth
WBAI-FM 99.5 NY
Sat 12-2am
www.hiphopmusic.com

"i believe" it. i beleive that we are all tempted by things and it is up to you whether or not to resist the temptation.

***********
i was boooorrrrn to love u
i was boooorrrrn to lick your face
i was boooorrrrn to rub u
but u were born to rub me 1st
(c) Chevy Chase in Caddyshack

with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist.

Damali, aka She Hate Me

Underground Railroad w/Jay Smooth
WBAI-FM 99.5 NY
Sat 12-2am
www.hiphopmusic.com

*snaps*

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

you do agree that it is a temptation?

***********
i was boooorrrrn to love u
i was boooorrrrn to lick your face
i was boooorrrrn to rub u
but u were born to rub me 1st
(c) Chevy Chase in Caddyshack

But you can't beat Damali's sense and wisdom and language in that post, can you.

Cuz when you come right down to it, either you are being foolish... or "tempted"...

but if one is tempted by love
tis FOOLISH
to ignore it

PEACE,

Q

*you got holes in yo stockings!*lol* *


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

Damali, aka She Hate Me

Underground Railroad w/Jay Smooth
WBAI-FM 99.5 NY
Sat 12-2am
www.hiphopmusic.com

why I believe people can be bisexual.

you just fall in love with people. plain & simple.

personally, I'm straight. I didn't choose that, and I don't believe anyone really "chooses" their sexuality. I don't think I could start loving women (that way) even if God came down and demanded it. That's just not who I am.

sexuality, to me, is not black & white. there are varied shades of gray...

L.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I am the Invincible Sword Goddess...the desert dragon..." ~~Jen

"It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a bad example." ~~anonymous

"Now let's go back to that... building... thingie... where our beds and tv... is." ~~Homer Simpson

"how u gonna tell me to mind my own biz/when you lookin like somethin I need to know about?"~~de la soul

"Ignorance: The Verbal Airborne Disease" (c) my friend Ty

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

>"i believe" it. i beleive that
>we are all tempted by
>things and it is up
>to you whether or not
>to resist the temptation.
>

But, it wasn't temptation to me. It was a natural thang. Temptation ??????? No.

Silk.
Peace

silk.later

http://soulodyssey.podbean.com/ My new podcast. That's right, i'm baaaaaaacccckkk !!!!!

like heterosexuality (for most of ya'll)?

such a double standard! When did you choose to be a heterosexual?

25

"Your Silence will not Protect You"
-Audre Lorde

"Black Men Loving Black Men is THE Revolutionary Act"
-Marlon Riggs

www.reddirt.biz
www.myspace.com/timmwest
www.myspace.com/deepdickollective
www.bravesoulcollective.org


*Diamonds are Coals under Pressure*
-Lorraine Hansberry

*Black Men Loving Black Men is THE Revolutionary Act!
- Marlon Riggs

i dunno, but how can someone be TEMPTED to be heterosexual when that is how God created us?.. male and female are designed to mate and multiply..
now if homosexual sex could beget children, then ok.

***********
i was boooorrrrn to love u
i was boooorrrrn to lick your face
i was boooorrrrn to rub u
but u were born to rub me 1st
(c) Chevy Chase in Caddyshack

Just bc someone is attracted to and in relation to a person of the same gender does not mean they cannot not make babies. Ohhhhhhhhhh, you mean in a marriage. I guess all those hets who cannot have children are somehow less worthy of God's Love. No one has to convince anyone of anything here, I smile at people who tell me I am not a part of God's Plan. Of course I am. We both are.

Just to throw in a little *very little* Christian theology here: Is not Christ's coming the fulfillment of the Old Testament (Law)...Christ becomes Law...And we know he was all about Peace. 'Prince of Peace"...you know? Who was hanging out with the social outcasts???? Was it the Pharasees? no. Anyway, whenever I get into these kinds of discussions, I just call up my Christian friends who beleive homos, bis and trannies are part of God's Plan. My biggest weakness is not deepening my dependance upon God and allowing people's opinions to shake my foundation. I wish you all love, peace and understaning. Love and Freedom is for allof us.

Peace and Blessings,
BlackAdder



*STOP RAPE*

www.amnestyusa.org

"Nothing is wasted in God's Economy"


"...Your silence will not protect you"--Audre Lorde, feminist, race warrior, mother, lesbian, poet.

you had to be FERTILE.. stop putting words in my mouth, now.
and i didn't say that homosexual intercouse made people sterile either.
but natural conception cannot be the result of homosexual intercourse.
that is what i am saying.
men do not carry eggs in the their rectums and sperm is not produced in a woman's salivary glands.
and you know that.
don't get me wrong. EVERYONE is worthy of God's love AND everyone will have to deal with God's judgement too.


***********
i was boooorrrrn to love u
i was boooorrrrn to lick your face
i was boooorrrrn to rub u
but u were born to rub me 1st
(c) Chevy Chase in Caddyshack

all this talk of rectums and saliva...i don't believe i was putting words into your mouth. as a matter of fact I was saying what was on my herat and asking legit questions. Like: are only hets who breed part of God's Plan (in your opinion)? that for me at least, procreation is one of the benefits of sexual relations but not the onl oney. like I said, I am here to state my opinion, just like you sis/bro. we obviously are not going to agree and that's fine with me. it's all about stimulating discussion.No disrespect. god sees me everyday and loves me everyday in all I do...Much love to you.
Peace and Blessings,
BlackAdder
*STOP RAPE*

www.amnestyusa.org

"Nothing is wasted in God's Economy"


"...Your silence will not protect you"--Audre Lorde, feminist, race warrior, mother, lesbian, poet.

For some people who they love whether by choice, genetics, falling on the head, whatvere is hardly a pejorative thing. This is about two people meeting on the same ground, sans power dynamics and falling in love, having sex, dating whatever.
It's not in the mode of the addiction model (eg, doing this thing that you really, really, really, really don't want to but my body/mind/soul craves it even though it's destroying my life). That's a shame-based model of which my sexuality, my sexuality identity is not a part of. Tell me when was the day that any hetersexual perosn chose to not go the way of gayness or biness and make the 'right choice'. The choice model is only employed one way (gays/bis choose. starights are). truthfully, it does not matter if anyone thinks I was born adn can change o I chose and can change...I thnak the Divine every day for my life and strength and love. I continue to love women and men and fight the battle.
Peace and Blessings,
BlackAdder
*STOP RAPE*

www.amnestyusa.org

"Nothing is wasted in God's Economy"


"...Your silence will not protect you"--Audre Lorde, feminist, race warrior, mother, lesbian, poet.

not everybody is tempted to do the all the same things. some people are tempted to smoke, others are not..some are tempted into homosexual relationships and some are not...


***********
i was boooorrrrn to love u
i was boooorrrrn to lick your face
i was boooorrrrn to rub u
but u were born to rub me 1st
(c) Chevy Chase in Caddyshack

I am shocked that you would utter such BLANTANT bullshit!

So, your getting dicked... is that an addiction? Huh? Could you just "give it up" like so much herion?

I think you need to think about what you say before you say it, Ol' Woman... don't be ig'nant.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

What a notion.

Do they have Dick-Anon or something?

_______________________

>What a notion.
>
>Do they have Dick-Anon or something?
>

LMLSAO !!!!!!! Lawd !!!!

Silk.
Peace

silk.later

http://soulodyssey.podbean.com/ My new podcast. That's right, i'm baaaaaaacccckkk !!!!!

>bismillah
>
>i believe that it is easy
>to go to straight from
>gay.
>the islamic view is that homosexuality
>is a CHOICE.

you can change your actions, but you can't change your tendencies or who you really are inside.


>Islam and Muslims are considered
>intolerant and biased due to
>their continued opposition. Arguments in
>favor of tolerance to homosexuals
>are based on the assumption
>that homosexual behavior is biologically
>based and not merely learned
>from society.

so then how do you explain that i knew i liked girls even tho i hadn't seen it anywhere, never heard the words gay or lesbian and didn't have any gay people in my environment?


>1. Early opposition to homosexuality was
>based on the argument that
>such behavior was unnatural. Sodomy
>cannot produce children which is
>one of the main natural
>consequences of sexual relations.�Mother
>Nature� did not make us
>that way, it was argued.

hm...what about a woman/man who is born sterile? they will not be producing any children and nature sure made them that way...but i guess people just write of anything that doesn't fit their idea
of 'nature' as abnormal....

gee i remember when being left-handed was considered abnormal...so glad the righties found some compassion and allowed us all to not be named in some mental dysfunction book somewhere..



>
>2. During the 80�s it was
>claimed that a gland in
>the base of the brain
>which is small in women
>and large in men was
>found to be small among
>homosexuals. However, this evidence, while
>seeming incontrovertible to the layman,
>was immediately refuted by scientists.
>The data was taken from
>cross-sections of the brains of
>dead adult humans whose sexual
>preference was identified prior to
>death. Consequently, the reduced size
>among homosexuals could have been
>a result of the practice
>and not its cause. That
>is, they could have been
>born with normal sized glands
>which then became small due
>to their deviant lifestyle.

LOL...that is too ridiculously stupid to even comment on



>4. It should be noted that
>Islam, in its final form,
>did not introduce anti-gay legislature
>to the world. The texts
>of the Torah are replete
>with clear condemnation of such
>practices.

hey islam ain't the only game in town...there are many historic religious documents in other cultures that do not make that claim or those condemnations. The Lotus Sutra...a historical Buddhist document, does not condemn or even mention homosexuality and there are many others from other cultures as well. those are not valid? and with every religion claiming their historic document is the only truth, no wonder you have so many atheists...

>5. he consequence of AIDS is
>enough to prove that homosexuality
>is evil and dangerous to
>society. The early spread of
>AIDS was concentrated among the
>homosexual community. It later spread
>to the heterosexual community through
>blood transfusions and intravenous drug
>usage and so-called bisexuals. And
>continues on a rampage among
>promiscuous heterosexuals.

BORING OLD ARGUMENTS NEVER DIE. The spread of AIDS (as i understand it) is contingent upon infected blood entering the body of an uninfected person. Anal sex is not the only way that can happen. In fact heterosexual couples have just as much anal sex as gay men stereotypically do. Infected blood can also be transmitted thru intravenal drug use. So i guess all the druggies back then were gay too. What you have here is a classic case of mistaken correlation. AIDS emerged and many gay people were affected by it. that doesn't necessarily mean that one had anything to do with the other. But people love to assume that in order to add it to their long laundry list of why gays are evil. Like i said...boring and old.


>6. Islam considers homosexuality to be
>the result of a choice.
>It is inconceivable that God
>made people homosexuals then declared
>it a crime and prescribed
>punishments for it in both
>this life and the next.
>To accept such a proposition
>is to accept that God
>is unjust.

Okay this cracks me up the most. What does anybody REALLY know about God? NOTHING. Has anyone you know actually spoken to him? Did he tell somebody what he thinks and feels? If God is so powerful, who are we to EVER assume we know what his intentions or motives are/were? And you wanna talk about unjust? Infants and children that die is unjust. Women being raped and mutilated all over the world is unjust. Terrorism is unjust. The depletion of the earth's natural resources and ozone layer is unjust. fuckouttahere with that...

>them responsible for their choices.
>Were homosexuality a product of
>genetic destiny, it would be
>unfair for God to criminalize
>it and punish those who
>practice it. Currently, some scientists
>are even claiming that murder
>is of genetic origin. To
>accept that would mean to
>excuse murderers and tolerate murder.

Equating two people of the same sex who fall in love to murder is just plain ignorant. If i fall in love with a woman, who am i hurting? Who's personal freedom am i taking away? Murder and pedophilia are situations where one person is forcibily denying another person their human rights..their right to life. How are gay people doing that?


>7. Islam instructs parents to separate
>their children in their beds
>by the age of ten
>in order to avoid sexual
>experiences which may result from
>childhood experimentation.\

well sorry to tell you that if two kids REALLY wanted to experiment, they'd wait till their parents were asleep and climb into the others bed...lol...what they gonna do about that?

Such experiences may
>be reinforced by contacts in
>schools and through abuse from
>adults. Also the distinctions between
>male and female are strongly
>made in Islamic teachings. The
>Prophet cursed men who imitated
>women and women who imitated
>men.

of course...otherwise male domination would not have lasted very long now would it? LOL can't have the females running around figuring out that they're actually equal to men


The Western fashion industry
>is controlled by homosexuals who
>attempt to blur the distinction
>between males and females in
>order to make their behavior
>more acceptable. Consequently, men�s fashion
>has become more feminine in
>style and color and women
>are now wearing three-piece suits,
>ties and hats and traditionally
>men�s shoes.

generalizations run amok. Not all men dress that way nor do all women. I think fashion nowadays is more about personal expression and i'm glad women and men have some alternatives.

These distinctions may
>be relative and vary from
>society to society. For example,
>in Scotland men traditionally wear
>little knee-length dresses called �kilts�.
>In Scotland it would not
>be considered imitation of females,
>but in a society where
>only women wear such dress
>it would be considered imitation.

Well I only have one last thing to say: Gays rule the world. Resistance is futile. so sowwy

Damali, aka She Hate Me

Underground Railroad w/Jay Smooth
WBAI-FM 99.5 NY
Sat 12-2am
www.hiphopmusic.com

________________________________________
-knead dough?? hit us up at-www.makindatbread.com
-representin the real since tuesday
-illified illustrated.word.fresh.

*get Lewis Taylor cd's here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000006TEI/o/qid=983465806/sr=8-2/026-0085729-5341211

much cheaper than the regular amazon (they charge $30 bucks) you'll pay 12pounds here which converts to less than $15 bucks.

How do you know it's not nature's way of keeping the planet from overpopulating itself? "Mother Nature" been stopping by your crib, telling you all "her" plans over a Tom Collins? What the hell do you REALLY know? Do you know how many children homosexual and barren couples adopt? Children that "breeders" made and ended up in the horrendous adoption system for whatever reason? Children that need love and happiness from a happy home no matter what the sexual make up of it?

some of y'all people in this post need to know that you don't know what you think you know...

Damali, aka She Hate Me

Underground Railroad w/Jay Smooth
WBAI-FM 99.5 NY
Sat 12-2am
www.hiphopmusic.com

I agree with Dr. Philips. Homosexuality is a choice. Although I am totally against homosexuality, I am not TOTALLY prejudiced against homosexuals. They, too are people who we have to share this planet with. I am strongly against gay bashing because violence is not an answer.

As a Christian, I have been told that I was a hypocrite for my faith because I am prejudiced against gays and lesbians. I have been told that I did not really stand for what I believe in but was 'indoctrinated' by my Bible-thumping friends. Friends, what I have been taught was also my own choice same as a person decides whether they live a specific lifestyle or not. I firmly believe that God did not intend for man and man to be together.
(Didn't he create opposite charges on nature)
But standing for what I believe in is, I think more right rather than believing everything I hear in the media, the newspaper, etc. Hate is not the answer for me because God told me to love every man, woman, and beast and other creatures of the earth. I
I am what I am.

Phi

--------------------------
girl: "You don't know who your fucking with!"
Ramon: "YOU DON'T KNOW WHO your fucking WITH, BITCH!"

-hilarious convo in BB

Yes, in my opinion. You can't possibly be born that way because thats not the way GOD created people. ADAM & EVE not ADAM & STEVE
holla...

That's so old and such crap...who are you God? That answer is probably no and of course he didn't make Adam and Steve they couldn't reproduce that way, a sign of the times so to speak. Look, I lived next to a three year old when I was a kid, this child oozed homosexuality and it wasn't because of his environment because he had a super macho father and a similar brother, it wasn't TV because he watched mostly cartoons and guess what he grew up to be as gay as they come so don't talk to me about God not making someone a certain way, God makes us in his image...love.
B1

are extremely talented, when it comes to the arts. They are talented painters creators and hairdressers. Most of them are very talented. Usually, when I meet a gay man, I am intrigued with their creative ability. I am not saying that straight people are not talented in the arts, because, I am talented in this field, but every gay man that I have ever known is.


*************MUSICAL QUOTES**************

"Speak low, when you speak love"--Billie Holiday

"FREEZE!!!...Everybody clap your hands"!!!--Casper

"Mama, come here quick..and bring that lickin' stick!!!"--James Brown

"Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. Mama don't 'llow no music playin' in here. I don't care what Mama don't 'llow...I mo' play my music anyhow."--nostalgia

Here is a link for yo :

http://weblog2000.com/barneyskidspag/flash/Iloveyou.html

♥ I LUV U 2!!! ♥

  

in my neighborhood


depends on where ya are and who who's surrounded by



==**peace**==

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

Are naturally talented at cooking/child-rearing/supporting their man.

_______________________

how do you NOT go insane on here??? You must have the patience of a freakin' saint.

Shimmy

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.” Anthony Bourdain

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I am the Invincible Sword Goddess...the desert dragon..." ~~Jen

"It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a bad example." ~~anonymous

"Now let's go back to that... building... thingie... where our beds and tv... is." ~~Homer Simpson

"how u gonna tell me to mind my own biz/when you lookin like somethin I need to know about?"~~de la soul

"Ignorance: The Verbal Airborne Disease" (c) my friend Ty

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

*choices: from Silky1's post.

In My Opinion.

There are many things to discuss when it comes to the "issue" of homosexuality. Sometimes it is hard to say whether a person has a strong influence, has been sexually abused, has been curious, or just plain chose to be homosexual. But we must understand that a person is homosexual because they are homosexual. No matter what a person tells you, no matter how much someone is against the idea of homosexuality, your God still loves them. God does not hate his own creations. And the fact that someone can actually sit there and tell you that God punishes Homosexuality is a hypocrite and CANNOT tell you that God has spoke to them and told them "I punish the homosexuals!!!" They have not seen firsthand what God does to homosexuals.

Think of it like this...A man walks into a bank, shoots the clerk, and walks out with 500k. After this incident, he goes to God and repents, returns the money, and goes to jail. Throughout this life in jail, he influences young men to follow the right path and don't be led by evil. Now do you think he will go to hell? Doesn't God forgive all sins? Well, so the "Bible" says.

To be punished by God is to live a life of sin and never repent before death. Being homosexual in my OPINION is not a sin because God gives us free will. It is our choice to do what we want as long as it is not hurting other human beings. To speak gentle to children, and love one another with sincerity is basically all we need to do to live angstless lives. Homosexuals are humans, not animals, not from another planet. And there is a posibility for homosexuality to be in a specific section of DNA -- known, we have a gene that proves our sexuality at birth, are you born with an x or a y chromosome?

Now because of this factor, think of this...Have there ever been naturally born hermaphrodites? This isn't what I'm using to prove that Homosexuality is not a sin. But why would God allow a human to be born with a sexual disfuntion, then turn around and punish them because they chose to be with men AND women? It's against all rules of any religion, isn't it?

Concluding my essay, I would just like to point out that no matter what racial ethnicity you are God loves you, and no matter what sexual preference you have, (whatever God you believe in) GOD LOVES YOU!!!

-Prizm from Chicago

pi2izm@aol.com or ladydeath3000@yahoo.com

that's not the case with the gay men i know.. they are regular guys with no remarkable talent whatsoever.. that's kinda like saying homosexual activity stimulates the artsy side of people, which i disagree with; not that you actually said that..
i think it is more that the modern artsy crowd is more open and accepting of alternative lifestyles so people who are living alternative lifestyles may gravitate to artsy people.

***********
i was boooorrrrn to love u
i was boooorrrrn to lick your face
i was boooorrrrn to rub u
but u were born to rub me 1st
(c) Chevy Chase in Caddyshack