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Subject: "Defining race on OKP" This topic is locked.
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TinkyWinky
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2726 posts
Mon May-07-01 04:34 PM

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"Defining race on OKP"


          

well, i'm trying to write a paper for a cultural-theory English Lit class about whiteness and racial definition. i'm actually trying to focus it on the facets of race that we come upon here on these boards. specifically, i want to write about the way we establish (consciously and unconsciously) our races, which would otherwise be undetectable, through simple text posts on an internet message board. ideas? reactions? i may quote some of you, if so i'll email you beforehand for approval, clarification, etc. thoughts? reactions? put them up here. paper's due friday, i'll be working on it probably through friday morning, so keep 'em coming. thanks players.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
hope this helps
May 07th 2001
1
RE: Defining race on OKP
May 07th 2001
2
question
May 07th 2001
3
because
May 07th 2001
4
      RE: because
May 08th 2001
21
           RE: Leaf and Dispatroit
May 08th 2001
37
                RE: Leaf and Dispatroit
May 09th 2001
63
RE: Defining race on OKP
May 08th 2001
5
ok this is what I thought he was asking us for
May 08th 2001
6
really
May 08th 2001
7
Race lines are B.S.
May 08th 2001
8
True,
May 09th 2001
65
RE: really
liberation
May 08th 2001
9
BOODAH is
May 08th 2001
12
      RE: BOODAH is
May 08th 2001
13
      you are
May 08th 2001
16
           RE: you are
May 08th 2001
18
      actually
May 08th 2001
19
           actually most people
May 08th 2001
24
                boodah
May 09th 2001
66
RE: ok this is what I thought he was asking us for
May 08th 2001
10
tinky's question
AfricanHerbsman
May 08th 2001
11
      RE: tinky's question
May 08th 2001
14
           true
AfricanHerbsman
May 08th 2001
17
I sure as hell want to know
butiful1
May 16th 2001
108
RE: Defining race on OKP
May 09th 2001
59
although
AfricanHerbsman
May 08th 2001
15
maybe to clarify
May 08th 2001
20
you betta
May 09th 2001
46
      RE: you betta
May 09th 2001
53
      yea a few did...
May 09th 2001
57
      RE: you betta
NoOne
May 09th 2001
73
by the words we use
May 08th 2001
22
sure, but...
May 08th 2001
25
Me do the work?
May 09th 2001
39
      don't be ridiculous
May 09th 2001
43
           dif. direction
May 09th 2001
45
                sorta the latter
May 09th 2001
49
RE: by the words we use
May 08th 2001
26
RE: Defining race on OKP
May 08th 2001
23
but...
May 08th 2001
27
      RE: but...
May 08th 2001
28
      excellent!
May 08th 2001
31
           thing is
AfricanHerbsman
May 08th 2001
34
           RE: excellent!
May 08th 2001
36
                RE: excellent!
May 09th 2001
40
                RE: excellent!
May 09th 2001
68
                Yeah..
May 09th 2001
62
      RE: but...
May 08th 2001
30
      directory
May 09th 2001
67
      Not for nuthin but....
May 11th 2001
95
           RE: Not for nuthin but....
May 13th 2001
99
      for many
May 08th 2001
32
           perfect sense
May 08th 2001
33
parallels
AfricanHerbsman
May 08th 2001
29
a comment first
May 08th 2001
35
RE: a comment first
May 09th 2001
41
true Red...n/m
May 09th 2001
47
true true
May 09th 2001
64
yeah
May 09th 2001
69
RE: a comment first
May 10th 2001
77
RE: Defining race on OKP
May 08th 2001
38
RE: Defining race on OKP
May 09th 2001
42
it's a good idea...
May 09th 2001
44
Defining Race in Cyberspace
May 09th 2001
48
interesting...
May 09th 2001
50
you're right.
May 09th 2001
52
RE: interesting...
May 10th 2001
78
RE: Defining Race in Cyberspace
May 09th 2001
51
RE: Defining Race in Cyberspace
May 09th 2001
54
RE: Defining Race in Cyberspace
May 09th 2001
58
Seek many answers
May 09th 2001
72
RE: Defining Race in Cyberspace
May 09th 2001
75
RE: Defining Race in Cyberspace
May 13th 2001
101
RE: Defining race on OKP
May 09th 2001
55
Lookin for asians...
May 09th 2001
56
Some white boy's take..
May 09th 2001
60
HEY
May 09th 2001
70
RE: Some white boy's take..
May 09th 2001
71
another poor white boy's take...
ThaPoorProphet
May 09th 2001
76
      Analysis
May 11th 2001
96
           RE: Analysis
ThaPoorProphet
May 14th 2001
102
On Race
May 09th 2001
61
RE: Defining race on OKP
May 09th 2001
74
I'm white
May 10th 2001
79
ah, c'mon
May 10th 2001
80
okay playerz
Gods Vessel
May 10th 2001
81
      and how does this further discussion?
May 10th 2001
82
bshelly!
May 10th 2001
92
RE: Defining race on OKP
Dave
May 10th 2001
83
RE: Defining race on OKP
Dave
May 10th 2001
84
      RE: Defining race on OKP
May 10th 2001
86
The rest of my response
May 10th 2001
85
RE: The rest of my response
Dave
May 10th 2001
87
      actually...
May 10th 2001
88
      RE: actually...
May 10th 2001
91
      RE: The rest of my response
May 10th 2001
90
Here goes.
May 10th 2001
89
jesus h. christ
mE_again
May 11th 2001
93
yeah...
May 12th 2001
98
Word
May 13th 2001
100
      Not that easy.
May 15th 2001
103
      Also see link.
May 15th 2001
104
done and done
May 11th 2001
94
only two!?
May 12th 2001
97
      RE: only two!?
rashid
May 16th 2001
105
RE: Defining race on OKP
Daydream
May 16th 2001
106
invisible race...
she-ra
May 16th 2001
107
RE: Defining race on OKP
May 16th 2001
109
too big to post
May 16th 2001
110

Sudani
Charter member
631 posts
Mon May-07-01 05:08 PM

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1. "hope this helps"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=250&forum=DCForumID1&archive=yes#1


again.again!

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Mon May-07-01 05:18 PM

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2. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think that dividing lines like race may be obscured by the fact that a) we all participate in and appreciate a culture that is predominantly black and b) often try not to alienate ourselves by adopting a style that fits in somewhat (although there are those that clearly don't).
I find it fairly hard to distinguish black vs. white vs. asian vs latino vs..., especially combined with different languages, locations, ages, genders, etc, but the differences can sometimes be pinpointed.
Just ask a question like 'Does race on OKP matter', generally those that claim it doesn't and don't shout out their skin colour are white. I don't know if this is the right place to get into the reasons for that though.
Good luck,
-B

"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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viagramakesmeimpotent
Charter member
4412 posts
Mon May-07-01 05:24 PM

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3. "question"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

trying to define race through this media is defeating the purpose a bit? If one's race is only determined by visual appearance, how can one decode the race from a text or font on the computer screen? Because even if a person says they are whatever race they could be lying.

N.A.S.A is full of space cadets like me - me


Founder of M.W.S
(Insert Comment HERE) We insert all the time

CEO of Human Milk for America
and M.I.L.K Speaker of the House

http://www.ilovecheese.com

Founder of M.W.S
(Insert comment here) We insert all the time!

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Mon May-07-01 06:27 PM

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4. "because"
In response to Reply # 3


          

'Race' isn't as simple as just skin colour.
I think it's going to be tough distinguishing the issue of racism from the question of folks backgrounds being apparent through writing. The two subjects are not independent, but the greater isn't anywhere near as simple as that and I'm working through it myself.
Peace
-B

"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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dispatriot
Member since Nov 04th 2002
8 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:41 AM

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21. "RE: because"
In response to Reply # 4


          

I agree totally... race + cultural heritage by nature + cultural heritage by choice-- the last of which influences this "telling the truth or not" bizness on these boards.

I'd love to see the name list, I'm curious about where out perceptions lead us...

for that matter, I'd love to see the paper at the end of all this as well.

  

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viagramakesmeimpotent
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4412 posts
Tue May-08-01 05:43 AM

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37. "RE: Leaf and Dispatroit"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

You can't see someone's culture thru the computer screen either. A person would have to tell you about themselves first. So if you we're just typing with someone through the internet without information from them your mind can wonder about the person that may not be true. (excuse the run-on sentence yall) That's the point i was trying to get at.

Founder of M.W.S
(Insert Comment HERE) We insert all the time

CEO of Human Milk for America
and M.I.L.K Speaker of the House

http://www.ilovecheese.com

Founder of M.W.S
(Insert comment here) We insert all the time!

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Wed May-09-01 02:26 PM

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63. "RE: Leaf and Dispatroit"
In response to Reply # 37


          

Well...

>You can't see someone's culture thru
>the computer screen either.
That was the original question, some folks do (or try, I dunno how correct they are) some don't, the question dealt more with why some do, what are the indicators? or if not, what are the reasons

A
>person would have to tell
>you about themselves first.
Not always. You make judgments of people everyday based on what they say. Now here I'm not talking about skin, cause it's apperent in the everyday. But by watching how they talk or act, you build up preconceptions. Do they speak intelligently? Maybe they went to school. Are they wearing jewlery? Maybe they're wealthy. On the other hand, they might just work at a pawn shop. Personally, if I see a girl rockin tight white pants (are those in right now?), talking nonstop on a mobile, and smoking a cigarette, I steer clear, because I think she's a thoughtless bimbo. Preconceptions
What I'm saying is that you don't need the whole life story to start to build a background of somebody, an effect that can be translated to the internet, where you have even less to go on to learn about a person. And because race generally plays a big role in who somebody is, it may be noticed in their comments. It's not a bad thing, just intersting. Race is not as explicit as 'yes I am black' or 'yes I am white'.


So
>if you we're just typing
>with someone through the internet
>without information from them your
>mind can wonder about the
>person that may not be
>true.
Yes, but are you making those opinions based on their posts? What clues do you use? That was, I think, the question. Now whether you're right or not is a different story.


(excuse the run-on sentence
>yall) That's the point i
>was trying to get at.
Yep, consider it excused
>CEO of Human Milk for America
>
>and M.I.L.K Speaker of the House
And I'm a milkaholic!

Peace,
-B

"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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Zesi
Charter member
24062 posts
Tue May-08-01 12:35 AM

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5. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

language (though that's not a good way)
comments like this tend to be clues for whiteness:
"what's wrong with white people?"
"we're all the human race"
"white rappers get discriminated against in the hiphop community"
"my family never owned slaves"
"i'm not white...i'm (insert some european ethnicity)"

of course, none of these are surefire.

It just BES that way sometimes.

Yabbadabbadoozilla! (c) Bootzilla
http://www.funkknots.com
http://www.cartoonista.com
http://www.pocho.com

"Men lied about that ---
Some of them cried about that ---
Some of them died about that ---
But everything fightin' about a spoonful
That spoon, that spoon, that ---
It could be a spoonful of water
Saved me from the desert sand
But one spoon of them forty-five
Saved you from another man" -Howling Wolf

"You might as well pay attention/ you can't afford free speech" -George Clinton

"People need to stop saying that there is one way to be--and then the issue will disappear." Ntozake Shange-interview in _Mother_ _Jones_


  

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Shelly
Charter member
15886 posts
Tue May-08-01 12:45 AM

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6. "ok this is what I thought he was asking us for"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

I can tell by some usernames . A lot of non-blacks use words that make me visualize white. I don't want to name names, but if you want I can inbox them.


Shit happens

  

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BooDaah
Charter member
32690 posts
Tue May-08-01 01:12 AM

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7. "really"
In response to Reply # 6


          

i'd love a copy of your "list" -- send me one.

(this ought to be interesting....)

anyway, on topic:

my thoughts: race, as used my humans, is merely a means of delineation and seperation. period. as discussed before the scientific "proof" is dubious (generally based upon a political or social desire to be distinct, and generally superior). that said, since the means of delineation DOES exist (even with it's faultiness), i think it is unwise to merely discount it. in other words, like it or not/fair or not/justifiable of not/provable or not -- race DOES exist, if for no other reason that SOME accept the concept.

(side philosophical question: is existance proved by mankind's ability to observe or imagine? i gues this is similar to the "if a tree falls in the woods" thing...)

ps - good looking to the player who used the archives. THAT'S exactly the reason why it's there.

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
BooDaah-OkayActivist Moderator
(see Candy1's sig about what that means)
** PLEASE READ THE POSTING GUIDELINES:
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
-----------------------------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
Step1:inform yourself step/Step2:inform others/Step3:discuss the problem/Step4: DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/Step5:EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/Step6:evaluate the results/Step7:start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
"What are we as African Americans? Let's really examine how we are contributing to the projection of our own images of ourselves. What are we really willing to give up? Our integrity? The honor of our community, just for some money? "-Jada

  

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jefleejohnson
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18315 posts
Tue May-08-01 02:31 AM

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8. "Race lines are B.S."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

We group ourselves "white" "black"

when in reality those aren't our true shades.

We ignore all the other colors that arent skin related. Forget about the hair or the eyes nooo you are "white" and you are black. We just let it into our cultural vocabulary...


I just think grouping people like we do now is ridiculous.


Au80: the Gold Standard in Hip Hop and R&B.
10-12 PM CST

http://kanm.tamu.edu

Foley-Time:Clock of Da Universe (it comes out when it dro

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Wed May-09-01 02:47 PM

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65. "True,"
In response to Reply # 8


          

That's exactly what post #1 was saying, and I as most here, agree completely. What TinkyWinky was getting at (and what I also find interesting) was that, assuming that race is a construct imposed (and created-another discussion) by humans, not a biological fact, how is it translated, if at all, through discussion boards on the net?
-B

"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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liberation

Tue May-08-01 02:38 AM

  
9. "RE: really"
In response to Reply # 7


          

that is pretty much my exact viewpoint on race
peace
------------------------
to aim
is to take oneself too seriously
by focusing without instead of within

re arrange and re member

aim...i am

the right letters are there
it's the wrong composition

-saul williams

  

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Shelly
Charter member
15886 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:14 AM

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12. "BOODAH is"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

a name I would associate with a person of Asian descent . Am I wrong ?

Shit happens

  

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Baron
Charter member
540 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:21 AM

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13. "RE: BOODAH is"
In response to Reply # 12


          

>a name I would associate with
>a person of Asian descent
>. Am I wrong ?


Yes. He's black.



  

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Shelly
Charter member
15886 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:29 AM

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16. "you are"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

soooooooooooooooooo smart. What would I have done without you.

Shit happens

  

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Baron
Charter member
540 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:35 AM

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18. "RE: you are"
In response to Reply # 16


          

>soooooooooooooooooo smart. What would I have
>done without you.

Yes. Yes I am smart.


  

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BooDaah
Charter member
32690 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:39 AM

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19. "actually"
In response to Reply # 12


          

the boodaah thing has ZERO to do with being "asiatic" (a long story)

as far as my "blackness" (in quotes because my definition may be different than whomever reads this) is concerned: i honestly think this could be more easily ascertained by the converstaions i have, which has nothing to do with the moniker chosen on these boards. but that's neither here nor there..

i'm reminded of the "never assume" cliche' AND i just wanna see your list.


  

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Shelly
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15886 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:44 AM

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24. "actually most people"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

I know named that call themselves buddha or boodah are called that because they were chubby once and resembled the symbol buddha. I was actually being a smart-ass because I knew you were black !

Shit happens

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Wed May-09-01 02:55 PM

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66. "boodah"
In response to Reply # 24


          

I thought maybe he smoked a lot o herb!
-B

"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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standard deviant
Charter member
1206 posts
Tue May-08-01 02:58 AM

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10. "RE: ok this is what I thought he was asking us for"
In response to Reply # 6


          

>I can tell by some usernames
>. A lot of non-blacks
>use words that make me
>visualize white.

for real...BooDah, abduhu, etc...that screams white to me

Actually, I know what you are saying, but my experience (mostly on other boards) is that there's a whole gang of people that are lying about their "race" (explicitly or implicitly).

What I find interesting (not surprising, but interesting) is that the people lying about their "race" are more likely to be white.

You can annex culture in any environment, but you can only annex color when there is no sight.

"I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech"--Being John Malchovich

  

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AfricanHerbsman

Tue May-08-01 03:05 AM

  
11. "tinky's question"
In response to Reply # 10


          


>Actually, I know what you are
>saying, but my experience (mostly
>on other boards) is that
>there's a whole gang of
>people that are lying about
>their "race" (explicitly or implicitly).

how you can tell if self-definition's false?
_______________________________

seize your time - marley/wailers

no static at all - steely dan

  

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standard deviant
Charter member
1206 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:28 AM

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14. "RE: tinky's question"
In response to Reply # 11


          

>how you can tell if self-definition's
>false?

my bad...let me be more clear. If you are saying "race" to mean color, then there is no way of telling (by definition)...if you are intending "race" to mean culture, then someone will slip in repeated postings. For culture: If I didn't LIVE it, I can only ACT it (and somewhere my facade is going to slip). For color: I am what I say I am, and (in this environment) who are you to say I'm anything different..

"I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech"--Being John Malchovich

  

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AfricanHerbsman

Tue May-08-01 03:32 AM

  
17. "true"
In response to Reply # 14


          


>If I didn't LIVE it,
>I can only ACT it
>(and somewhere my facade is
>going to slip). For
>color: I am what I
>say I am, and (in
>this environment) who are you
>to say I'm anything different..

true, it's self-defined either way

like you say: implicit/explcit, concious/unconcious

and I'd be one of shelly's examples, or maybe yours
_______________________________

seize your time - marley/wailers

no static at all - steely dan

  

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butiful1

Wed May-16-01 09:00 AM

  
108. "I sure as hell want to know"
In response to Reply # 6


          

who you assume is white by their user name...that's special.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I don't just do it, I feel it...how 'bout U?" -Nikki Hayes

"Shut up, already, DAMN..." -Prince (House Quake)

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Wed May-09-01 01:49 PM

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59. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Yeah,I mentioned something like that earlier, can you do it without those obvious clues? I mean say in a non-race post? That's probably more of a true test
Peace
-B


"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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AfricanHerbsman

Tue May-08-01 03:29 AM

  
15. "although"
In response to Reply # 0


          


we're saying the lightest-skinned brothers you'll ever see ain't nothing but jews
& swedes, darkest white man ain't nothing but nigerian or ethiopian.. - shock g/du
_______________________________

seize your time - marley/wailers

no static at all - steely dan

  

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TinkyWinky
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2726 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:40 AM

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20. "maybe to clarify"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i'm really interested in the ways we ARE raced in this blind environment. race being primarily a social construct, it's still one we deal with 24 hrs a day. how does that translate into an environment where we can't see it, so we'd have to read it? how do we not only assign race to ourselves, how do we assign it to other people? i like what some people have said about usernames and ways of responding to questions, but i'm hoping you all can provide me with a little more, maybe answering questions about how presumptions of race, or the fact that we sometimes CAN'T make presumptions about race, shape our discussions (both discussions about race and about other issues).

and how can i get 10 pages out of these questions!??!?!?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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SankofaII
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Wed May-09-01 04:18 AM

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46. "you betta"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

CUT and PASTE mufugga!

this is interesting....me personally, im black. i dont begin a post thinking someone can tell im "black".....when i first started posting here in general, folk automatically assumed i was white (i still dont know why) but changed their minds IMMEDIATELY when i said i was black (someone asked mein a post)...

but....your paper should be interesting...can i see a copy of it when you're finished?

ill come back with some more coherent later...

RC



manufactured beef/cliques/bloated self-importance are wearing thin
--bluetiger

Black is beautiful..dont you think?

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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ChocoLaTee
Charter member
206 posts
Wed May-09-01 06:51 AM

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53. "RE: you betta"
In response to Reply # 46


          

People assumed you were white?? That shocks me because the second I saw your user name I assumed you were black. I would have been shocked if you were white with that user name.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Writing can be cleansing, but there have been times in my life when even the writing is not enough to cleanse"- Stephanie Byrd

"Apparently your skin has been kissed by the sun"- India.Arie

"Sometimes it has been easy, and sometimes I pretend I am more confident than I am"- Akhaji Zakiya

"Why should I be the one who was afraid to admit how I was inclined to love, when the Reverend felt so free to proclaim how he hated"- Donna Allegra

"Hate is not a family value"- pin/bumper skicker

"I know my creator didn't make no mistakes on me/ my feet, my thighs, my lips, my eyes, I'm loving what I see"-India.Arie

  

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SankofaII
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Wed May-09-01 12:57 PM

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57. "yea a few did..."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

i got QUITE a few private messages from folk saying that i as a white man had NO RIGHT to use Sankofa as a handle because WHITE PEOPLE dont know what it means, etc.


of course, i calmly told them to EAT A DICK, and explained that idid know what it meant that's why i chose it and that there ARE many white folk who DO know what SANKOFA MEANS but this BLACK MAN AIN'T ONE OF THOSE WHITE FOLK....

needless to say, the mails stopped and people got that i was Black..go figure. }>

RC



manufactured beef/cliques/bloated self-importance are wearing thin
--bluetiger

Black is beautiful..dont you think?

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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NoOne

Wed May-09-01 03:39 PM

  
73. "RE: you betta"
In response to Reply # 46


          

>when i first started posting
>here in general, folk automatically
>assumed i was white (i
>still dont know why)

Maybe when they think "gay man" they think "white" before they think "black".



  

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k_orr
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80197 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:42 AM

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22. "by the words we use"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and the references we make.
The evidence of group conscoiusness and concern.

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

  

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TinkyWinky
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Tue May-08-01 03:44 AM

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25. "sure, but..."
In response to Reply # 22


          

i guess i'm not just asking for the short answers, i'm interested in how each of you sees it, maybe examples would help, or maybe a an explanation of a paradigm within which you see these things.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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k_orr
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80197 posts
Wed May-09-01 12:53 AM

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39. "Me do the work?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


Isn't that intellectually dishonest?

peace
k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

  

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TinkyWinky
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2726 posts
Wed May-09-01 03:22 AM

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43. "don't be ridiculous"
In response to Reply # 39


          

that's you sharing your experiences. if i CITE your quotes, there's nothing dishonest about that. every time i put up a post about this sort of thing i get shit from somebody about that. didn't you people ever write english papers!?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts
Wed May-09-01 03:58 AM

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45. "dif. direction"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          


- are you asking

Do we really know if the person on the other side of the screen is black?

Or are you asking

what exactly do we look for to see if someone is black.

subtle.

but when you ask for specific examples, are you asking me to show a thread from the lesson, or what I plings on my blackdar?

k. orr

http://breddanansi.tumblr.com/

  

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TinkyWinky
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2726 posts
Wed May-09-01 05:14 AM

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49. "sorta the latter"
In response to Reply # 45


          

like, are there specific clues you look for that racialize an un-raced username? not just things that make them clearly black, but things that make them clearly white, or clearly something else. or even not so clearly anything. but clues. ever get into a debate about afrikan thought or black nationalism or whatever with another okp, then about 6 posts in you go "shit, is this a WHITE kid!?" when that happens, what tips you off? or is it ever immediately obvious? when are you never sure, and do you know why?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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dispatriot
Member since Nov 04th 2002
8 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:47 AM

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26. "RE: by the words we use"
In response to Reply # 22


          

How about which posts we choose to respond to/which battles we take on? Either purposefully to associate ourselves with a race/culture-related cause or issue... or by nature being of that race/culture. (Taking the "people don't give white mc's enough props" a bit further.)


  

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Zesi
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24062 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:44 AM

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23. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think one important part of race that we sometimes forget is that it is a system imposed from without, one that needs societal change and not individual. It privileges some and puts down others.

So I don't think white people could ever claim being black, black as they may act, because in the end, they still receive privileges the "whitest" black person could never get.

It just BES that way sometimes.

Yabbadabbadoozilla! (c) Bootzilla
http://www.funkknots.com
http://www.cartoonista.com
http://www.pocho.com

"Men lied about that ---
Some of them cried about that ---
Some of them died about that ---
But everything fightin' about a spoonful
That spoon, that spoon, that ---
It could be a spoonful of water
Saved me from the desert sand
But one spoon of them forty-five
Saved you from another man" -Howling Wolf

"You might as well pay attention/ you can't afford free speech" -George Clinton

"People need to stop saying that there is one way to be--and then the issue will disappear." Ntozake Shange-interview in _Mother_ _Jones_


  

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TinkyWinky
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2726 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:48 AM

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27. "but..."
In response to Reply # 23


          

remember, i'm asking specifically about "cyberspace" (i loathe that term). a universe of interaction in which we CAN'T see each other's faces. now answer the question again, and it's a lot harder, isn't it? structure imposed from outside perhaps, but made VERY real by daily existence. we have to live within race, or at least within a knowledge of race. so how does that show itself when we interact in an environment like this one, where race is NOT visibly apparent?

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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AZ
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12930 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:57 AM

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28. "RE: but..."
In response to Reply # 27


          

As a person of color growing up in this society, race (or more accurately - skin color) is something that plays an important part in my life and isn't something I can avoid. It's also something that has shaped my politics and my view of the world. So I definitely acknowlege the fact that whenever I'm reading a person's comments on this board, I try to figure out the poster's race, and also, if possible, their class background. If it isn't obvious, I check out the user profile. Why? Because like I said, race defines, for a large part, who we are. It might not be by choice, but that's how we've been socialized. And seeing that a certain comment was posted by a POC as opposed to a white person definitely has an impact on how I receive it.

  

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TinkyWinky
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2726 posts
Tue May-08-01 04:00 AM

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31. "excellent!"
In response to Reply # 28


          

and quotable! now give me more. short of looking at a profile (or even in addition to looking at a profile), what indicators do you look for? what sorts of things have you found to be reliable indicators of a person's race/color/ethnicity (not all the same thing) here on okayplayer, and elsewhere on the net? and not even the obvious things, but are there little subtleties? has anyone noticed subconscious things? are there drastic things we look for, like the way people spell certain things? and these dont' have to be ACCURATE indicators, just ones we look for. i'm interested in the subject as well as the observer.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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AfricanHerbsman

Tue May-08-01 04:08 AM

  
34. "thing is"
In response to Reply # 31


          


> are there drastic things
>we look for, like the
>way people spell certain things?
> and these dont' have
>to be ACCURATE indicators, just
>ones we look for.
>i'm interested in the subject
>as well as the observer.

it's so hard to give examples because it's accumulated knowledge, at least in my case. you can't ascribe race off a few posts but coming here week after week you get some context, see how the same person responds to different discussions on the different boards - cause the superficial things you're looking for are just that. like some cultures have the more obvious hold, specific cohesives.

peace.
_______________________________

seize your time - marley/wailers

no static at all - steely dan

  

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AZ
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12930 posts
Tue May-08-01 04:24 AM

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36. "RE: excellent!"
In response to Reply # 31


          

OK, well, peoples' language can sometimes be an indicator. If someone is using a lot of slang, to the point that they just sound silly, I usually assume that he/she is a white person.

Sigs as well. If someone has a quote from something like Deltron in their sig, again, I assume the person's white.

But more than anything, the content of the post is the best indicator of a poster's race. Especially if they sound really defensive.

Yeah, I know this is probably wrong of me, but it's also a reflection of our messed up society.

  

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standard deviant
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1206 posts
Wed May-09-01 01:13 AM

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40. "RE: excellent!"
In response to Reply # 36


          

I was just thinking how the internet is a place where our stereotypes play out without anything visual to back it up. That type/level of stereotyping is hard to admit to (which probably influences your difficulty getting solid responses).

For me: I'm with the herbsman, that it is generally more an accumulation of subtleties (almost intangibles) that influences my perception of a person's race. There are glaring examples as listed above (overdefefensiveness when no one is even being attacked, etc), but it is usually a finer grain than that.

I jokingly used BooDaah and abduhu earlier because they fit both of the above. Abduhu's (exceedingly knowledgable) religious stances pretty clearly define him as non-white to me (glaring example). Boodaah is more an amalgam of posts that indicate not only what he says he believes, but that there is integrity behind it (more subtle).

"I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech"--Being John Malchovich

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Wed May-09-01 03:11 PM

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68. "RE: excellent!"
In response to Reply # 40


          

>Abduhu's
>(exceedingly knowledgable) religious stances \

>Boodaah is more an amalgam
>of posts that indicate not
>only what he says he
>believes, but that there is
>integrity behind it

Standard: the check's in the mail
-Abduhu and Boodah

:):)

yeah, one thing I actually appreciate is folks that can be knowledgable without being overbearingly preachy (esp w/ religion), which I think ya both do well
-B

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Wed May-09-01 02:10 PM

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62. "Yeah.."
In response to Reply # 36


          

Those are probably some of the clearest indicators, even if you aren't actively trying to visualize the person. I think to take it to the level you have, you've gotta really notice different folks week after week, something I don't really have the time/energy to do. What you're saying tho, makes a great deal of sense. Yeah, what about my sig, I should probably jus walk around with a sign around my neck! Oh well, they're good for a laugh
Peace
-B

"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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Zesi
Charter member
24062 posts
Tue May-08-01 03:59 AM

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30. "RE: but..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I would say that race shows itself through some of our comments.
Though it doesn't necessarily mean one is white or black or dominican or vietnamese....

Like a post that says "I hate white people..." I'd wager that poster ain't white

Or a post that's like "What's wrong with white people?" I'd wager the poster is white

Plus, we have some of their pictures, so we can put a face to a name. Basically, everyone on here is aracial until they explicitly say or show who they are. We can guess, we may guess right most of the time, but sometimes we'll be wrong. It won't shake my world if I find out someone on here is white...it will change my perception of what they say, though. Because off the computer, we operate inside a world where race matters and influences us every day...those influences do make it to cyberspace...fake persona or not.

It just BES that way sometimes.

Yabbadabbadoozilla! (c) Bootzilla
http://www.funkknots.com
http://www.cartoonista.com
http://www.pocho.com

"Men lied about that ---
Some of them cried about that ---
Some of them died about that ---
But everything fightin' about a spoonful
That spoon, that spoon, that ---
It could be a spoonful of water
Saved me from the desert sand
But one spoon of them forty-five
Saved you from another man" -Howling Wolf

"You might as well pay attention/ you can't afford free speech" -George Clinton

"People need to stop saying that there is one way to be--and then the issue will disappear." Ntozake Shange-interview in _Mother_ _Jones_


  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Wed May-09-01 03:03 PM

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67. "directory"
In response to Reply # 30


          

Or ya could just cheat and look in the directory, but that's not really the point, is it?
Disclaimer: take everything I say with a grain of salt:)
Interesting spin tho
-B

"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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Ape Redwood
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6088 posts
Fri May-11-01 12:08 PM

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95. "Not for nuthin but...."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

The most active okayplayers seem to be black to me, but because of the demographics of the okayartists' customers (mostly white, like all hip-hop artists) and racially unequal access to the net, id be pretty amazed if the majority of "okayplayers" overall, meaning people who visit and post to the site, werent white. That's why utamaroho and Solarus often point out that discussions about African Nation-building on this site are not "in-house" or "keeping it in the family" and should often be undertaken in more exclusive settings.

Also I'd say white okayplayers are more likely to attempt to obscure their race consciously and unconsciously.

I think that these racial signifiers are not always as obvious as one might think over the net. White people in hip-hop are getting people sophisticated in their cultural appropriation. By the way, guess my race (for those that don't know already). Let's test the skills and provide a "case study." What about my statement here clues you into my race?

---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Sun May-13-01 02:04 PM

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99. "RE: Not for nuthin but...."
In response to Reply # 95


          

>The most active okayplayers seem to
>be black to me, but
>because of the demographics of
>the okayartists' customers (mostly white,
>like all hip-hop artists) and
>racially unequal access to the
>net, id be pretty amazed
>if the majority of "okayplayers"
>overall, meaning people who visit
>and post to the site,
>werent white.
True, true, but I think non-black okplayers (that post) might feel their opinion will be given less credibility becasue hip hop is/was basically a black culture? Does that actually happen? Distinction to be made btwn those who post and those who lurk, as they affect OKP differently.
Side note? do you think, as stats seem to imply that teh majority of hip hop buyers are white, that most white hip hop fans are down to the OKplayer level, or just MTV fans? (wow that sentence was a mess). I don't even have a TV, so I don't know myself.

That's why utamaroho
>and Solarus often point out
>that discussions about African Nation-building
>on this site are not
>"in-house" or "keeping it in
>the family" and should often
>be undertaken in more exclusive
>settings.
Yup

>Also I'd say white okayplayers are
>more likely to attempt to
>obscure their race consciously and
>unconsciously.

I agree, see post #2 I think.

>I think that these racial signifiers
>are not always as obvious
>as one might think over
>the net. White people in
>hip-hop are getting people sophisticated
>in their cultural appropriation. By
>the way, guess my race
>(for those that don't know
>already). Let's test the skills
>and provide a "case study."
>What about my statement here
>clues you into my race?

Damn, If I had to guess, I'd say black, based on the point about blacks having less access to technology, as well as the reference to Black Nationalism. I really don't know tho,

Peace,
-B



"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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BooDaah
Charter member
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Tue May-08-01 04:01 AM

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32. "for many"
In response to Reply # 27


          

it's difficult (or honorable depending on your view) to put down the cloaks we choose (or are given) even when anonymity is provided

did that make sense?

  

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TinkyWinky
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33. "perfect sense"
In response to Reply # 32


          

i'm getting some really good things here, i appreciate it from everyone, and btw, feel free to jack this post into any tangents you all see fit, because i can probably work ANY of this sort of stuff into a paper discussion.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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AfricanHerbsman

Tue May-08-01 03:57 AM

  
29. "parallels"
In response to Reply # 0


          


I get messed up by gender and such as often as race.

but then you've got a broad range of backgrounds on okayplayer.

speaking of which, non-english speakers are easier to recognise.

prolly similarly established with that cause this is a deaf medium too.

work it backwards, shit that's immediately obvious versus more subtle clues.

on the whole it doesn't matter, isn't mega-relevant to me how people choose to present themselves.

or their ideas, that's all it is - but false-ifiers are interesting.
_______________________________

seize your time - marley/wailers

no static at all - steely dan

  

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REDeye
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Tue May-08-01 04:21 AM

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35. "a comment first"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's hilarious how people will answer the question they want to answer, instead of answering the question asked.

My answer is that the way we all respond here is microcosmically related to how we think about race in the real world. We have all come to associate certain steretypical behaviors with appearances to which we have become accustomed. In the real world, these behaviors aren't taken alone, but there is a moment's hesitation whenever we come across behavior incongrous with a look. Then we either absorb it and fit into our construct of appearance, or we reject it as abberrant or an isolated event.

Here, those same non-visual clues still apply, but in the absence of visuals, our brains fills in the blanks based on prior experience, based on what we have on file. So if every time we've heard someone say "That's dope," to use an elementary example, has been a "black" person, then when we read a post in which that phrase is used, our mind conjures up an image that fits with that experience.

The more varied our experiences in real life, the least likely we are to automatically assign an image to a phrasing or pattern or thought shown in a post here. But this process is completely natural and, more than that, a necessary and vital function that all thinking creatures use.

We all have different "lists" of things that act as "racial cues," so to speak, but the types of things which may be used, consciously or subconsciously, are user names, typing abilities, theories advocated, books read, music bought, sense of humor,and much more.

(Personally, I don't actively try to figure out the race of a person, unless of course it's pertinent to the topic. Then my first effort would be to check the person's user info page. nothing there, and if I just had to know, I'd ask. If were to guess, I'd keep it to myself, but I'd examine the way they relate to others whose race I've already made a positive ID on. I'd check for reluctance to use racially charge words or to engage in racially charged discussions. I'd look at what topics or kinds of topics they favor. Of course, there are only rare circumstance in which I get to verify my answers. But regardless, I am able to form a mental image, pulling a file from my experiential memory and using that to inform my actions.)

I'm not saying any of these are good indicators. Certainly, none of them by itself will do you any good. But they can be used to form a cumulative picture, one that, for the perceptive person, can be quite accurate. Many of us actually reveal a lot about ourselves here, often unintentionally.

Curiously, for all the KoalaLove fans out there, this demonstrates how irrelevant or arbitrary our societal definitions of race can be. If you pay attention to the cues an okayplayer places here over time, you can get a picture of a person that is so accurate it's downright scary -- and still not be sure of the color of that persons skin. Whether a person is black or white or whatever can have little relevance to personality. And personality comes through very strong on these boards.


RED

"Sounds like Zen," I said. "Interesting
enough in itself as a system of
thought, but not much
good for explaining anything."
Haruki Murakami, The Wind-Up
Bird Chronicle.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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standard deviant
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Wed May-09-01 01:18 AM

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41. "RE: a comment first"
In response to Reply # 35


          

nicely put...

"I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech"--Being John Malchovich

  

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SankofaII
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Wed May-09-01 04:19 AM

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47. "true Red...n/m"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

manufactured beef/cliques/bloated self-importance are wearing thin
--bluetiger

Black is beautiful..dont you think?

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Dove
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64. "true true"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

you know what's hella funny? People on OKP know what shade I am because we speak on a personal level here and a lot of us have met. However in my writing MOST people have assumed I was a Black woman - sometimes even a man - but I've only had ONE person actually ASK what race I was. I'm neither here nor there with it, because all that matters to me is that I can 'touch' someone with what I write about - because I know there are people who feel the things I've gone through or the passions I have - so color hasn't been the biggest issue. I actually had to call and tell the editor and webmaster for one of the pubs I write for that I wasn't Black because they kept referring to me as such and I thought they'd be mad if I DIDN'T tell them... they both laughed and said they just assumed... and that was after almost 2 months of writing for them!
Fuck it - I write how I feel and what I feel and however that's perceived is in the eye of the beholder. I'm just happy that anyone gives two craps to read what I have to say at all. It's a blessing to be able to communicate with all different types of people from all different backgrounds and religions and heritages. Just a blessing.

http://UrbLife.com
http://twitter.com/FlyLikeDove
http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
http://Facebook.com/FlyLikeDove
http://flylikedove.contently.com

  

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leaf
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Wed May-09-01 03:20 PM

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69. "yeah"
In response to Reply # 35


          

That's a solid answer
>and if I just had to know(race-B), I'd ask.
And even if not given explicity, the answer to that one speaks volumes about background

"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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Shelly
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Thu May-10-01 05:00 AM

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77. "RE: a comment first"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

>It's hilarious how people will answer
>
>
>
>(Personally, I don't actively try to
>figure out the race of
>a person,

Neither do I , when I see a name I visualize a picture of something or someone. When I read Tinkywinky, I roll out my chair laughing because I see this big purple thing asking for tele custard. When I read folks name with color in the name or other cultural indicators , you can't help but to think color or culture . If I see Raven or Ebony (please if this is your name forgive me) I have a picture of a black in my mind. I'm I trying to decipher their race , nope, maybe the question is are they trying to tell you their race ?

Shit happens

  

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Zesi
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24062 posts
Tue May-08-01 09:47 PM

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38. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This may be more work than you're asking for, but you could send a survey out to okps asking them about certain people, whether they think they're white or black or another ethnicity, and why they think they are that ethnicity. The people you choose to be guessed could self-report their ethnicity, or you could know their ethnicity already (though that may bias the study).

It just BES that way sometimes.

Yabbadabbadoozilla! (c) Bootzilla
http://www.funkknots.com
http://www.cartoonista.com
http://www.pocho.com

"Men lied about that ---
Some of them cried about that ---
Some of them died about that ---
But everything fightin' about a spoonful
That spoon, that spoon, that ---
It could be a spoonful of water
Saved me from the desert sand
But one spoon of them forty-five
Saved you from another man" -Howling Wolf

"You might as well pay attention/ you can't afford free speech" -George Clinton

"People need to stop saying that there is one way to be--and then the issue will disappear." Ntozake Shange-interview in _Mother_ _Jones_


  

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standard deviant
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1206 posts
Wed May-09-01 01:20 AM

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42. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 38


          

I'd like to see this happen anyway (even without the final answer/verification)...I think it would be interesting to see peoples perceptions (and to see how people react to those perceptions).

"I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech"--Being John Malchovich

  

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TinkyWinky
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2726 posts
Wed May-09-01 03:26 AM

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44. "it's a good idea..."
In response to Reply # 38


          

but first off, somebody in my class has already done something very similar to that, and if i were to do it too, THAT might feel like intellectual dishonesty.

second, i'm trying to take a decidedly non-sociological stance in this analysis. i don't want it to be experimental, i want it to be observational and experiential.

finally, well, paper's due friday, i don't really have time for anything like that anymore .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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cued
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1748 posts
Wed May-09-01 05:11 AM

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48. "Defining Race in Cyberspace"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think it is pretty easy, actually.

In many ways, this is a very hard question, but you are right, Twinky, it is interesting because the racial line is drawn even here.

Especially since people can say they are whatever race they want to.

But what I find is that white people will always say that they are white whereas people of color will either not say what race they are or allow people to think that they are white by default -- which is a default through both our language and thinking -- not that I like this, but it is a fact. Take, for example, the ways in which we speak amongst ourselves -- especially in the South. If you were to see tow guys walking down the street, one white, one Black, the signifier always goes to the Black guy. As in "that Black guy was pretty hot". If talking about the white guy, normally, it's just "that guy" which establishes "whiteness" as normative and without need for a signifier.

The things that point white people out to me in cyberspace is the stench of internalized racial superiority which shines clearly through even here. It is the way in which white people feel as if they have the _right_ to say and think however and which way they want to without anyone challenging them. This works extremely well on boards like these where opinions and thoughts and ideas are flying all around. Whiteness, in the "real world" works the same way in "cyberworld" as the mind doesn't make a distinction between the two... in other words, what would pass as an unhealthy need for "control" and a need for "individuality" works the same way here.

However, something to consider for your paper, is the way in which people of color have adopted the dominant cultures ways of being. In my own intellectual journey, this is something I am working on, specifically looking at the way in which Black men have incorporated white masculinity into their idea of what it means to "be a man." In cyberspace, this same phenomena occurs where you have Black people who seem to think of his or her self as an "individual" divorced from his or her communal upbringing... and also how many people of color (specifically Black and Latin communities) do not have this cultural expression having been raised in suburbs or "white" spaces where the emphasis is not on community, but intense individuality which means that these peopel of color _read_ white although they are Black or Latino.

Another things to look at would be, in a word, what has been called "bootlickers" -- that is the term used for those people described above.

Good luck,

Q


P.S. if anyone has been wondering where I have been, I have been in South Carolina and recently came home -- I've been holding onto that groundedness for a while...

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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TinkyWinky
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Wed May-09-01 05:20 AM

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50. "interesting..."
In response to Reply # 48


          

>But what I find is that
>white people will always say
>that they are white whereas
>people of color will either
>not say what race they
>are or allow people to
>think that they are white
>by default -- which is
>a default through both our
>language and thinking -- not
>that I like this, but
>it is a fact.

many academics, and many people on this board (to some extent myself included) would tend to disagree with you on this. in general it seems that white people online don't bother to identify as anything, because whiteness to them is something specifically empty. people of color, on the other hand, tend to strongly identify with a race or ethnicity, because their race is such an important part of their identity in real life. in other words, white people tend to never be conscious of the fact that they're white, but blacks or latinos or any other non-white racial groups tend to be VERY conscious of their race.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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Guinness
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Wed May-09-01 05:56 AM

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52. "you're right."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

i would venture to say that okayplayer is different, however, due to the fact that its racial makeup does not reflect that of america in general.


"the anarchist notebook" -- spring 2001

http://www.squidmark.com -- "for the little duns"


  

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cued
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Thu May-10-01 10:07 AM

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78. "RE: interesting..."
In response to Reply # 50


          

Twinky,

I wasn't clear...

It's more like... white people will _mark_ themselves as white. Maybe they won't actually _say_ say it, but it will present themselves.

That's all.

Peace,

Q



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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Dark_Angel
Member since Aug 11th 2002
3 posts
Wed May-09-01 05:43 AM

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51. "RE: Defining Race in Cyberspace"
In response to Reply # 48


          

I have read all the responses previous to mine and there's alot of sense being spoken and alot of nonsense. To categorize anyone is false because no one belongs in a specific category. If someone asked me if I was white I'd have to say no and if someone asked me if I was black I'd say no. I am of West Indian & European descent - my people were slaves as well as slave owners. I am both black & white; both oppressed & oppressive; arrogant & humble; weak & strong; good and sinful. There's a balance here.

It seems to me we should be finding more reasons to bring eachother together instead of continuing to wedge ourselves further apart. I am a believer in the Creator who had reasons for why our skin is different, why our culture is different. Maybe we're all different because the Creator is testing us. We as humans shun anything that is different instead of embracing it as hidden wisdom. We can learn alot from each other, even if lately it seems we are only learning what not to do. Too many things pulling us apart.

I realize that this is for a paper, I'm not saying that it's not worthwhile, it just hurts my heart to hear people hatin'.....
....1Love & 2Fingas

God is my teacher and the earth is my college.....

  

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ChocoLaTee
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Wed May-09-01 11:10 AM

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54. "RE: Defining Race in Cyberspace"
In response to Reply # 48


          

I think these boards are the opposite of society. Since whiteness is not the norm here (or at least I do not perceive it to be), I almost always assume the person that is talking to me is black. It is not until they expressly say something that makes me think otherwise.

My experience in the "real" world though is opposite from yours. Most people I've met who mention their race explicitly are black because we are so used to being identified by our race. Thus, to not mention/ acknowledge it would be to not have pride in it. Versus white people, who do see themselves as the norm, have no conscious reason to say they are white b/c being silent on the issue brings about an assumption of whiteness. (So I agree with your conclusion that society sees whiteness as normative, I just draw a different conclusion based on it).


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Writing can be cleansing, but there have been times in my life when even the writing is not enough to cleanse"- Stephanie Byrd

"Apparently your skin has been kissed by the sun"- India.Arie

"Sometimes it has been easy, and sometimes I pretend I am more confident than I am"- Akhaji Zakiya

"Why should I be the one who was afraid to admit how I was inclined to love, when the Reverend felt so free to proclaim how he hated"- Donna Allegra

"Hate is not a family value"- pin/bumper skicker

"I know my creator didn't make no mistakes on me/ my feet, my thighs, my lips, my eyes, I'm loving what I see"-India.Arie

  

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Zesi
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Wed May-09-01 01:28 PM

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58. "RE: Defining Race in Cyberspace"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

I don't believe a person of color could ever be white as much as they tried...they would never be fully accepted.

Plus, defining what's really black and what ain't is trickytricky.

It just BES that way sometimes.

Yabbadabbadoozilla! (c) Bootzilla
http://www.funkknots.com
http://www.cartoonista.com
http://www.pocho.com

"Men lied about that ---
Some of them cried about that ---
Some of them died about that ---
But everything fightin' about a spoonful
That spoon, that spoon, that ---
It could be a spoonful of water
Saved me from the desert sand
But one spoon of them forty-five
Saved you from another man" -Howling Wolf

"You might as well pay attention/ you can't afford free speech" -George Clinton

"People need to stop saying that there is one way to be--and then the issue will disappear." Ntozake Shange-interview in _Mother_ _Jones_


  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Wed May-09-01 03:37 PM

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72. "Seek many answers"
In response to Reply # 48


          

through intelligent posts

I agree with nearly all of your post except the evaluation of okayplyer. I have found that 'white' folks (this discussion is moving away from post indicators and towards definition of race, which is fine, but not what I'm gonna deal with here) disclose colour less, being in the generally accepted minority here. This happens, I believe, because often it is felt that the opinion will be given less weight or credability. This is often one of the biggest clues as to the background of a 'player
-B


"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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dispatriot
Member since Nov 04th 2002
8 posts
Wed May-09-01 06:56 PM

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75. "RE: Defining Race in Cyberspace"
In response to Reply # 48


          

I'm a bootlicker?

That sucks.

  

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Rjcc
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Sun May-13-01 06:03 PM

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101. "RE: Defining Race in Cyberspace"
In response to Reply # 48


          

>I think it is pretty easy,
>actually.
>
>In many ways, this is a
>very hard question, but you
>are right, Twinky, it is
>interesting because the racial line
>is drawn even here.
>
>Especially since people can say they
>are whatever race they want
>to.
>
>But what I find is that
>white people will always say
>that they are white whereas
>people of color will either
>not say what race they
>are or allow people to
>think that they are white
>by default -- which is
>a default through both our
>language and thinking -- not
>that I like this, but
>it is a fact. Take,
>for example, the ways in
>which we speak amongst ourselves
>-- especially in the South.
>If you were to see
>tow guys walking down the
>street, one white, one Black,
>the signifier always goes to
>the Black guy. As in
>"that Black guy was pretty
>hot". If talking about the
>white guy, normally, it's just
>"that guy" which establishes "whiteness"
>as normative and without need
>for a signifier.
>

This is on-point, I can tell you, here at school, white people always (every time) make note of the race of any non-white person they might be talking about. If I had a penny for every time I heard "he's the biggest black guy I've ever seen", or some variotion thereof, I wouldn't be so worried about possibly losing my scholarship. On the flip side, black people who were raised in suburban white neighborhoods (including some of my friends) constantly do the same thing when talking about all races. It's such a consistent part of their speech, and something I wasn't used to at home, that it sticks out to me everytime.





>The things that point white people
>out to me in cyberspace
>is the stench of internalized
>racial superiority which shines clearly
>through even here. It is
>the way in which white
>people feel as if they
>have the _right_ to say
>and think however and which
>way they want to without
>anyone challenging them. This works
>extremely well on boards like
>these where opinions and thoughts
>and ideas are flying all
>around. Whiteness, in the "real
>world" works the same way
>in "cyberworld" as the mind
>doesn't make a distinction between
>the two... in other words,
>what would pass as an
>unhealthy need for "control" and
>a need for "individuality" works
>the same way here.
>
>However, something to consider for your
>paper, is the way in
>which people of color have
>adopted the dominant cultures ways
>of being. In my own
>intellectual journey, this is something
>I am working on, specifically
>looking at the way in
>which Black men have incorporated
>white masculinity into their idea
>of what it means to
>"be a man." In cyberspace,
>this same phenomena occurs where
>you have Black people who
>seem to think of his
>or her self as an
>"individual" divorced from his or
>her communal upbringing... and also
>how many people of color
>(specifically Black and Latin communities)
>do not have this cultural
>expression having been raised in
>suburbs or "white" spaces where
>the emphasis is not on
>community, but intense individuality which
>means that these peopel of
>color _read_ white although they
>are Black or Latino.
>
>Another things to look at would
>be, in a word, what
>has been called "bootlickers" --
>that is the term used
>for those people described above.
>
>
>Good luck,
>
>Q
>
>
>P.S. if anyone has been wondering
>where I have been, I
>have been in South Carolina
>and recently came home --
>I've been holding onto that
>groundedness for a while...
>
>Peace,
>
>Q
>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Uplifting thoughts:
>
>"We are the end result of
>our ancestors prayers as they
>died. We you are the
>sum total of their answered
>prayers."
>
>"I am because we are; we
>are because I am."
>
>"falling in love with somebody's soul...their
>essence their personality their walk
>their talk the way they
>speak and smile...no matter what
>the physical outer body is..male
>or female...is a temptation i
>hope i am never foolish
>enough to resist." - Hot
>Damali


*********
You know why I don't have time for you?

Because I only have one lifetime to change the world, and there's not enough time in the world for me to change your life. - Me, keepin it really real since 1982

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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native_son
Charter member
776 posts
Wed May-09-01 12:08 PM

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55. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 0


          

From what i have read and experienced on this and other sites racial signifiers in cyberspace are highly inconsistent, and unstable. I believe it is this instability and inability to produce an authoritative answer/sign that makes 'race' a question in the first place. It also produces the numerous strategies employed to decipher the racial signs of other anonymous users. Thus i dont think you will come up with an answer only strategies and methods of interpretation.

If you have time it may be interesting to attempt to codify the various strategies(language, user name) and compare how race is produced on another site. What i suspect is that it is the site itself(black planet, stormfront) that weighs heavily upon the way these identities play themselves out.


native son

  

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AZNThought_Pt_III
Charter member
369 posts
Wed May-09-01 12:21 PM

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56. "Lookin for asians..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Well the few asians that I've seen on these boards are pretty much like me in that they stick some sort of asian characteristic in their nickname like "chan" or for me "azn"
But honestly, I'd have to say it's really hard to determine race on okayplayer, just going by nicknames can result in a complete misinterpretation of that person.
It always seems easier to separate races on this particular board though. The different issues that people talk about really seem to really highlight their background when they're either introducing a topic or responding.
For example, cued's way of saying "stench of superiority" in reference to white people clearly shows you that he is most likely of black descent.
Otherwise good luck on your thesis.

'Arigato, to all my people in Japan,
Whetha ya rockin Cardier or Pierre
Cardan,
I'm bargin through like "excuse I beg
ya pardon"
I crush carbon copy emcees with
clone jargon'
Black Thought - Act Fore... (hidden
track)

"I just wanna tape you...
all night"

  

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NonCompos
Charter member
88 posts
Wed May-09-01 02:03 PM

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60. "Some white boy's take.."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Well, I just read 56 responses and I'm pretty sure I agree with at least a part of each...

...I try and establish the fact that I'm white when I talk about things on these boards... I'm VERY aware of my whiteness, and so in an ongoing effort to unlearn those qualities that manifest themselves in a 'stench of superiority' (cued nailed it on the head), I mostly read the boards and take an observational position. Before I get into that, let me say of the few times I've posted on serious topics, I've demonstated those tendencies cued mentions.... just ask yogaflame... I was really unfair to him the other day and I'd say it had everything to do with my 'whiteness' in those aspects cued described. (thanks again YOgaflame your patience is appreciated)
...anyway, about observing. like I said I'm very aware of my whiteness, so if I start reading a post on Black Nationalism, it seems automatic in my mind and heart that I DON'T POST, just read. In other discussions, I might only post if I see that a post from a white person (who's clearly identified their race) hasn't offended the others posting, who I assume to be non-whites. See, I live in NH, so the prescense of non-NH-white thinking is pretty evident, b/c most people around here don't fucking think to begin with... that's another thread, but very related to this one in that my demographic (white-suburbanite hip-hop fan) provides a backdrop to how I make my way about the boards, and what I participate in. (I dream of the day when I can start a thread that's titled, "NH Okayplayers unite!")

..I have definite perception of people I've directly interacted with... like fire... I assume she's a strong black woman. I know of course this is playing off stereo types I've collected, but I'd say from both sides of the fence. But hey, I could be very wrong.

Lastly I'll say this, whether it's relevant I'm not sure: Since I bought my OKAYPLAYER fitted hat @ the Boston show (Avalon), I've gotten more comments from random people, like some guy at the SHaw's deli counter... and then some other kid at Gloria Jeans in the mall... and I've told everyone to go to the boards and start reading. But never has any of the 5 black people here in NH said anything when I see them take note of my hat. Not that I think my wearing the hat constitues a hello from a stranger, but I think it speaks to just how backwards a place this area is... and sometimes I get the feeling those people would rather me not wear the hat. I dunno. Sometimes I feel that it's yet another thing some white is taking away from a black (this is how I feel sometimes when I decide not to post). All I do know is that I feel like part of a healthy and honest community here, and all your patience with me is appreciated...

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Wed May-09-01 03:29 PM

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70. "HEY"
In response to Reply # 60


          

(I dream of the day when I can start a thread that's titled, "NH Okayplayers unite!")

NON PHILLY/DC/NYC/LA/TO PLAYERS UNITE!!

Thas gonna have to work for now I thin
-B

"I go to work in the morning and people give me shit. That's how I know my day has started."-Kids in the Hall

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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standard deviant
Charter member
1206 posts
Wed May-09-01 03:37 PM

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71. "RE: Some white boy's take.."
In response to Reply # 60


          

>...anyway, about observing. like I
>said I'm very aware of
>my whiteness, so if I
>start reading a post on
>Black Nationalism, it seems automatic
>in my mind and heart
>that I DON'T POST, just
>read.

Holy shit I wish other people would understand this. Don't get me wrong...if you don't know/understand a topic, ask. But don't talk as if you know when you don't (and don't JUST ask...ask and do some research of your own).

"I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech"--Being John Malchovich

  

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ThaPoorProphet

Wed May-09-01 06:56 PM

  
76. "another poor white boy's take..."
In response to Reply # 60


          

i am 15 and for a large portion of my life i was the ONLY white boy around
i had an accent and wore the clothes but never thought

"i am black"

and the whole time this was going on i made fun of people like me with my black friends because i wasn't white to them and i guess since i lived on one of the hardest blocks in dallas i had a reason. i walked the streets and saw stuff that the "average white boy" doesn't see or have to go thru
BUT ANYWAY
i don't really see people as white black unless its really obvious
its 'burbs/inner city
experience/rookie
but that doesn't really work on OKP because of all of the intellectuals

i can tell some one from the 'burbs (esp. white guys) when they have a screen name like
TUPAC or CASHMONEY or a name that somehow relates to commercial "hip-hop" (i don't think that should be considered hip-hop...thats pop like n*sync or britney spears)
OR
when they enter a room and are like
"where the hos at?"
"i never owned slaves"
"that was 100 years ago"
"why is race an issue"
i hate it when any group of people (esp. a group that has no clue about real hip-hop and thinks that is what all black people listen to and if you don't your white) embrace a part of the hip-hop culture that raped something original to get on its feet and then put on a front based on the one side of a culture that they saw
YOU CAN ALSO TELL
when they use excessive slang
talk alot of shit
or use nigga alot (??i don't really no why, thats just what i see??)

those are some of the most common examples

THE MORAL: be real b/c when you get found out you can't come back

_________________________________________________________________
tha cynical critic a*k*a tha poor prophet a*k*a son - one with
the unforgiven

"...i'd rather die on my feet/than live on my knees..."- B.I.G.

"...proud people breed sad sorrows..."
-wuthering heights

word poem perhaps worth considering

as things be/come
let's destroy
then we can destroy
what we be/come
let's build
what we become
when we dream
-nikki giovanni

"i live for poetic justice."- me

  

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Ape Redwood
Charter member
6088 posts
Fri May-11-01 12:26 PM

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96. "Analysis"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          


>
>i can tell some one from
>the 'burbs (esp. white guys)
>when they have a screen
>name like
>TUPAC or CASHMONEY or a name
>that somehow relates to
>commercial "hip-hop" (i don't think
>that should be considered hip-hop...thats
>pop like n*sync or britney
>spears)

To me, this statement is a cultural indicator that you are white. Actually in this anti-commercial conscious backpacker-staurated atmosphere, Id be amazed if someone with Tupac in their name was white.

---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

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ThaPoorProphet

Mon May-14-01 02:33 PM

  
102. "RE: Analysis"
In response to Reply # 96


          

i don't like most mainstream whether its punk hardcore or hip-hop
and the part about you can see i'm white or whatever please expand on it

________________________________________
tha cynical critic a*k*a tha poor prophet a*k*a son - one with the unforgiven

"...i'd rather die on my feet/than live on my knees..."- B.I.G.

"...proud people breed sad sorrows..."
-wuthering heights

word poem perhaps worth considering

as things be/come
let's destroy
then we can destroy
what we be/come
let's build
what we become
when we dream
-nikki giovanni

"i live for poetic justice."- me

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Wed May-09-01 02:06 PM

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61. "On Race"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"When you encounter a group of white Americans, Scott Malcolmson observes, you're encountering the legacy of slavery. He says: it's much the way European conquest of North America, which invented the race of Indians, also defined whites. "Conquest and slavery formed white people every bit as much as they formed black and Indian Americans," he writes, "and form them still." Scott Malcomson wrote "One Drop of Blood: the American Misadventure of Race" as history and also an introspection on his own experience as a kid growing up in multiracial Oakland, California in the 1970s."

In ancient times, people were separated by the tribe they were in. Colors, scarring on the skin, and other symbols delineated one tribe from another. Language, rites and rituals also separated groups of people. The concept of race was introduced by colonizing Europeans during the "enlightenment" period. Race was used as jusitfication for white supremacy, slavery and subjugation of groups of people based on geography. European scientists draw charts illustrating the physical features of each race-- from Jew/Semitic to Black/Negroid. Other Europeans created text to justify the supremacy of the white race based on so-called scientific evidence.

Race was invented to keep whites/Europeans in power.


"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Wed May-09-01 04:45 PM

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74. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Good luck on your essay, you came up with a great idea. I don't have much to add, but your experience alone will probably give you a lot to write. One thing I do think is that, if one is not given a clear hint, there will be a vacillation of thought regarding another okp's race. When consciously considering it, one will probably recognize that the lack of info makes it impossible to conclude. But as soon as one is not thinking about race, paradoxically the okp's race will become a clear given. I'll explain:

I don't know your race, Tinky Winky, so I don't guess. Your name does not make it clear in the slightest. But if I was just going through a thread, I might assume blackness, because of the forum (I mean that in general sense, not like The Lesson, etc.). Even the conscious thought is restricting, however, because I ponder whether you're black or white - not giving thought to other possible backgrounds. That assumption is derived from another assumption - that you're from North America. Basically, assumption is piled on assumption because of context, if that makes sense.

I know that says more about how we perceive than how we communicate it, but I just thought I'd throw that in there.


  

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bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Thu May-10-01 10:17 AM

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79. "I'm white"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


That's usually how I'll deal with the issue--straight up tell people I'm white whenever I'm discussing a political issue or (sometimes) an element of hip-hop.

Why? One, I think it's important for black and white people out there to know that there are white people who take seriously ideas like black nationalism, redistribution of wealth, and Puffy's wackness. Two, I thkn it's only right that I, as a participant in a culture that has remained proudly black and Hispanic, identify myself as an outsider. I certainly don't want anyone to think I have any pretensions about being an equal member of this culture, because I think it is something you needed to grow up with far more than I did to truly fit in. Three, when I identify myself as white before anyone else does, it's one less factor they can use against me in an argument.

-----
"Dikembe is a monster, not physically, I mean that man has lion's blood running in his veins." --Whanoon

now playing: bshelly's list of eternally cool things (in no particular order)

"Black Power", old school lunches, saying Scott Stevens is on "some MOP shit" ((c) DonKnutts), Ricky "the Dragon" Steamboat, Chowdafest, Maceo Parker, "Be My Baby", "what you don't have, you don't need it now", 4/20, blonds in sundresses, "Hey! How ya doin? Sorry you can't get through. Why doncha leave your name and your number, and I'll get back to you.", trading Tinky Winky's sorry-ass NHL 2001 character to the Wild and putting a bounty on his ass, and Fred "the Hammer" Nietzsche

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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TinkyWinky
Charter member
2726 posts
Thu May-10-01 10:48 AM

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80. "ah, c'mon"
In response to Reply # 79


          

Three, when I
>identify myself as white before
>anyone else does, it's one
>less factor they can use
>against me in an argument.

like anybody would really need another factor anyway.



. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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Gods Vessel

Thu May-10-01 11:07 AM

  
81. "okay playerz"
In response to Reply # 80


          

Peace

I see it like this... God created black, white, yellow, and orange. In america you have, uh...gray, purple, blue, and sometimes you might run into baige. The point i'm tryin to make is that the world is changing dramatically. People are becoming one and accepting many cultures. As a matter of fact cultures are connecting and modfying how they function. For example, you got acid and jaz...TADA -now you got acid jaz music. i mean, the more people come together, the less they look at their history. (not that i'm too hype about that) it's just that race now a dayz.....is so 'behind the scenes' that people dont even sweat it like they used to. personally i love my culture, my heritage, my history, and everything about MY people (well not everything....drugs and ice are gettin a little old now) and i will stand for that until i die and even beyond that through my seeds. But honestly though, regardless what race we are, individuality is what gives us that variety. we cant loose that mindset of representing who we truly are and not forgettin it.

If you miss one, you miss many, but if you reach one, you reach plenty. -me

I just wanna innovate, stimulate minds...travel the world and penetrate the times -common

The ghetto is mad hot, we steppin on flames -black thought


  

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TinkyWinky
Charter member
2726 posts
Thu May-10-01 11:12 AM

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82. "and how does this further discussion?"
In response to Reply # 81


          

in fact, how does this do anything besides push the discussion away so we don't have to address it? c'mon, let's get to the issues here. this isn't even a deep racial issue, it's just a question of how race presents itself in a deaf/blind environment. and it most certainly presents itself, as anyone can see.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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SankofaII
Charter member
30751 posts
Thu May-10-01 06:11 PM

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92. "bshelly!"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

you white? WHUUUUUUUUTTT????? i thought you was soul brotha #1 for sure! }>
RC



manufactured beef/cliques/bloated self-importance are wearing thin
--bluetiger

Black is beautiful..dont you think?

Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Dave

Thu May-10-01 11:17 AM

  
83. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>well, i'm trying to write a
>paper for a cultural-theory English
>Lit class about whiteness and
>racial definition. i'm actually
>trying to focus it on
>the facets of race that
>we come upon here on
>these boards. specifically, i
>want to write about the
>way we establish (consciously and
>unconsciously) our races, which would
>otherwise be undetectable, through simple
>text posts on an internet
>message board. ideas?
>reactions? i may quote
>some of you, if so
>i'll email you beforehand for
>approval, clarification, etc. thoughts?
> reactions? put them
>up here. paper's due
>friday, i'll be working on
>it probably through friday morning,
>so keep 'em coming.
>thanks players.
>
>. . . . . .
>. . . . .
>. . . . .
>. . . . .
>. . . . .
>. . .
>
>V I V R A N
>C E 2001:
>TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
>Vivrant - q-tip
>bfnh - dres
>guinness - ju-ju
>Mosaic - common
>ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
>SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
>Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
>Nickelz45 - psyco les
>Raina - monie love
>Phil - Jarobi
>Donwill - trugoy
>
>"Where the F*CK is my purse
>icon??????"



  

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Dave

Thu May-10-01 11:57 AM

  
84. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 83


          

>> Okay, you'll have to excuse any other blank posts I just put up, I'm still learning how to manipulate the message board, but check it...in response to your question... 1. ultimately, I feel that if a questioned is answered objectively and rationally by someone who is well informed on the topic at hand, it is impossible to determine their race...truth is truth and I don't believe it can stem from a racial perspective. 2. Forget the dialect of the text, as when we type we lack voice, tones and inflection making it easy to "impersonate" or use slang in an attempt to portray a particular race, also anyone who falls victim to this attempt at a portrayal is making an ignorant judgement themself. 3. You can't even trust statements that are blatantly racially biased as the anonymity of the net hides us. Someone could just be trying to rile heads, Knamean? Also people are fucked up, maybe there's a white dude posting "kill whitey!"like statements cuz he hate's his own race and's bugged out...etc. You can't know. 4. Damn this a tough question. 5. I think what you have to do to maybe get an idea of someone's race is pay attention to subtleties in people's posts which most likely result from their being a particular race, for example...well, this is your assignment, so you do it, read some posts and look for those little things it would be tough to consciously synthesize without having 1st hand experience. I guess if you don't have 1st hand experience it would be difficult to recognize it when you see it...Bueno Suerte.
I suppose we should all just come on this board and say "I'm White" or "I'm Black" and take eachother's word for it. That's my solution. Is it even important?

"I'ma freedomfighter reader/writer rapper'n'fan..."
--Rakaa, Dilated.

well, i'm trying to write a
>>paper for a cultural-theory English
>>Lit class about whiteness and
>>racial definition. i'm actually
>>trying to focus it on
>>the facets of race that
>>we come upon here on
>>these boards. specifically, i
>>want to write about the
>>way we establish (consciously and
>>unconsciously) our races, which would
>>otherwise be undetectable, through simple
>>text posts on an internet
>>message board. ideas?
>>reactions? i may quote
>>some of you, if so
>>i'll email you beforehand for
>>approval, clarification, etc. thoughts?
>> reactions? put them
>>up here. paper's due
>>friday, i'll be working on
>>it probably through friday morning,
>>so keep 'em coming.
>>thanks players.
>>
>>. . . . . .
>>. . . . .
>>. . . . .
>>. . . . .
>>. . . . .
>>. . .
>>
>>V I V R A N
>>C E 2001:
>>TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
>>Vivrant - q-tip
>>bfnh - dres
>>guinness - ju-ju
>>Mosaic - common
>>ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
>>SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
>>Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
>>Nickelz45 - psyco les
>>Raina - monie love
>>Phil - Jarobi
>>Donwill - trugoy
>>
>>"Where the F*CK is my purse
>>icon??????"



  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Thu May-10-01 12:20 PM

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86. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

>1. ultimately, I feel that if a questioned is answered objectively and rationally by someone who is well informed on the topic at hand, it is impossible to determine their race...truth is truth and I don't believe it can stem from a racial perspective.

That is if the person has enough awareness to try not to answer a question without influences of language, standards or cultural references. I can be well-informed and still drop knowledge that someone in my 'hood would understand. Kna' mean?

2. Forget the dialect of the text, as when we type we lack voice, tones and inflection making it easy to "impersonate" or use slang in an attempt to portray a particular race, also anyone who falls victim to this attempt at a portrayal is making an ignorant judgement themself.

Perhaps. Awareness of context is the key to what a person types or writes. However, it is the choice of the person typing to engage the reader through slang to get a response or just type. However, some people can't communicate without slang or without referring to some code.

3. You can't even trust statements that are blatantly racially biased as the anonymity of the net hides us. Someone could just be trying to rile heads, Knamean? Also people are fucked up, maybe there's a white dude posting "kill whitey!"like statements cuz he hate's his own race and's bugged out...etc. You can't know.

Usually, people can be drawn out through further communication.

5. I think what you have to do to maybe get an idea of someone's race is pay attention to subtleties in people's posts which most likely result from their being a particular race

Awareness is key!

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Thu May-10-01 12:04 PM

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85. "The rest of my response"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Previously, I posted about the origins of race (mostly for myself) but since the idea of race has become so institutionalized and ingrained in people minds I have been thinking about how race is defined by language, culture, social norms and standards in contemporary times.

Through my close relationships with people of different races I became more aware of how people of different races interacted. Often I can tell when a person on the phone is Black. It's the voice. As a experiment, I sometimes change my voice to fool co-workers (they confuse me for a white woman). I code-switch, meaning I adjust my behavior to whatever group I am with. Code-switching is a complex skill. It is a device to recontextualize how a person communicates with others, especially of different races. It goes beyond what people say to each other and often can happen when people write like on these boards.

Some people can code-switch and others can't. I think it has something to do with sensitivity and awareness of language, culture, social norms and standards-- of race. When I am with family & friends, especially Black people, I communicate differently. I speak, laugh and gesture differently. When I am around certain groups I communicate differently. The same goes for when I write (language). I am aware of context but I am always myself. No matter what situation I am in I am always aware of my identity or who I am.

I wonder if white people are as aware of Black "codes" as Black people are of white "codes". Black people have been socialized to integrate, assimilate, and imitate, so some of us are more aware of what white/European is in context. In a blind world, it is still possible to define race because of "codes".

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Dave

Thu May-10-01 01:04 PM

  
87. "RE: The rest of my response"
In response to Reply # 85


          

>Previously, I posted about the origins
>of race (mostly for myself)
>but since the idea of
>race has become so institutionalized
>and ingrained in people minds
>I have been thinking about
>how race is defined by
>language, culture, social norms and
>standards in contemporary times.
>
>Through my close relationships with people
>of different races I became
>more aware of how people
>of different races interacted.
>Often I can tell when
>a person on the phone
>is Black. It's the
>voice. As a experiment,
>I sometimes change my voice
>to fool co-workers (they confuse
>me for a white woman).

> I code-switch, meaning I
>adjust my behavior to whatever
>group I am with.

So you call it code-switching...What defines the line between code switching and plain old Frontin'? I hear what you're saying, you code-switch to allow for better communication...but what about kids who're considered wannabes and laughed at because of how they fail to do this skillfully? Aren't they just untalented code-switchers? Or are code switchers talented fronters? Doesn't a code switcher have to start as a wannabe? Like butterflies and larva... Because you're smart and perceptive you're a code-switcher, but those who don't have those smarts and over doit and make mistakes come off like jackasses, wannabe's...feel me? I'm not calling you either, you seem together as far as I"m concerned, its just food for thought.

"What're you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the Bees? Or the Dog's with Bees in their Mouths and when they Bark they shoot bees at you?" --Homer Simpson.
>Code-switching is a complex skill.
>It is a device to
>recontextualize how a person communicates
>with others, especially of different
>races. It goes beyond
>what people say to each
>other and often can happen
>when people write like on
>these boards.
>
>Some people can code-switch and others
>can't. I think it
>has something to do with
>sensitivity and awareness of language,
>culture, social norms and standards--
>of race. When I
>am with family & friends,
>especially Black people, I communicate
>differently. I speak, laugh
>and gesture differently. When
>I am around certain groups
>I communicate differently. The
>same goes for when I
>write (language). I am
>aware of context but I
>am always myself. No
>matter what situation I am
>in I am always aware
>of my identity or who
>I am.
>
>I wonder if white people are
>as aware of Black "codes"
>as Black people are of
>white "codes". Black people
>have been socialized to integrate,
>assimilate, and imitate, so some
>of us are more aware
>of what white/European is in
>context. In a blind
>world, it is still possible
>to define race because of
>"codes".
>
>"Know thyself"
>
>"Let your conduct be without covetousness;
>be content with such things
>as you have. For
>He Himself has said, "I
>will never leave you or
>forsake you". So we may
>boldly say, "The Lord is
>my helper, I will not
>fear. What can man
>do to me?"
>-- Hebrews 13:5,6
>
>"There is a difference between knowing
>the path and walking the
>path"
>--Morpheus in "The Matrix"
>
>"It's our choices, Harry, that show
>what we truly are, far
>more than our abilities"- Dumbledore
>to Harry Potter "Chamber of
>Secrets"



  

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TinkyWinky
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Thu May-10-01 01:30 PM

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88. "actually..."
In response to Reply # 87


          

i think she's misusing the term. EVERYONE code switches, most do it unconsciously. some simply have a greater vocabulary and lexicon with which to do it. it's a natural phenomenon, not just in race but in age, religion, etc. you speak to your grandparents differently than you speak to your brothers and sisters, i'm sure. that's code switching.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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Nettrice
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61747 posts
Thu May-10-01 01:55 PM

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91. "RE: actually..."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

But for this discussion, I am talking about race (as the context). I am using the term to identify a way or method in which people define themselves and communicate with others. No one has ever said, "She wants to be white." But plenty of people have told me that I am very articulate, meaning they can understand me (not relate to me).

I am using the term code-switch to describe what people do or attempt to do to communicate with other people, whether it's typing or speaking, in the context of race.

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Thu May-10-01 01:51 PM

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90. "RE: The rest of my response"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

> So you call it code-switching...What
>defines the line between code
>switching and plain old Frontin'?

A person can't "front" and code-switch. He/she is either fronting or successfully communicating with someone of another race or background or people with different interests. Some people imitate for amusement but that's all that is. Other people are assimilating and there are some people who can communicate on a variety of levels like speaking different languages. There are definite uses for "switching" like to educate/train different groups of people, to get a job, to reach others beyond their neighborhood or group.

You can tell the difference.

>I hear what you're saying,
>you code-switch to allow for
>better communication...but what about kids
>who're considered wannabes and laughed
>at because of how they
>fail to do this skillfully?
>Aren't they just untalented code-switchers?
>Or are code switchers talented
>fronters? Doesn't a code switcher
>have to start as a
>wannabe?

Wannabees don't code-switch. They emulate and imitate in an attempt to become part of a group. Switching allows a person to communicate effectively without losing his/her identity. For example, I have several acquaintances of different races mainly because I know how to communicate with them but I am do not want to be like them. I can articulte my ideas to a corporate big-wig but I am still me. I choose to dress the same and wear my hair natural no matter who I communicate with. I was never a wannabee, just a good communicator. Communicating with all kinds of people is part of who I am.

>Because you're smart and perceptive
>you're a code-switcher, but those
>who don't have those smarts
>and over doit and make
>mistakes come off like jackasses,
>wannabe's...feel me? I'm not
>calling you either, you seem
>together as far as I"m
>concerned, its just food for
>thought.

Let me put it another way. When a person is open and aware, they have a deeper understanding of things. It's not about smarts. The people who mess up code-switching are people who have other agendas, other than communicating. Some people miss the point and that's when they are ineffective. Some people are close-minded and can not empathize with others.

I am not smart. I am a little more perceptive than some people but I will always be what I decide to be (identity). I've decided to be Black. I am Black. I look and feel Black and I embrace being Black, as well as all the other parts of my character that I embrace. I am comfortable with myself and usually people are comfortable with me.

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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alek
Charter member
3625 posts
Thu May-10-01 01:33 PM

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89. "Here goes."
In response to Reply # 0


          

I actually think that the cyberspace environment intensifies racial dynamics, it doesn't distance them just because we can't see each other.

Obviously, on one hand, we can have color-blind debates on non-racial (or ostensibly non-racial) issues. In other words, we can talk about free trade or socialism or capital punishment without the resistance that could be inherent in a real-world situation. I see the difference on a daily basis: talking about poverty with the Black Student Association at Yale is a very different experience (involving judgement and hesitation on both our parts) than it is on OKP.com.

That being said, when we discuss issues of race directly, I think cyberspace cuts us loose from our ethnic background, and either we free-wheel around as "global citizens" or we make over-zealous attempts to identify ourselves and each other so we don't get lost in this online vaccuum.

If you go the first way, you end up talking around everything and not always being frank with people. But it does allow for a level playing field, in that not "identifying" gives you some allowed legitimacy in making statements about race.

I'm often prone to use this approach, because my experience has been that identifying myself as a 20 yr. old, male, white, Jewish undergraduate at Yale doesn't always foster open discussion or acceptance here at OKP.

The unfortunate side-effect of agressively identifying oneself is that, since we're all afloat here, we tend to categorize people as "with us" or "against us" so there's some grounding.

Basically, in a real-world situation race gets taken into account as a factor in judging somebody, but their physical presence, voice, personality...also play a large role. Here, you're forced to go on whatever you can get. All we've got is digital words and whatever somebody tells you. And it doesn't work well to say "I'm a sincere, open, committed, charismatic person and if we were talking in person you'd believe what I'm saying about____."

Unfortunately, I've found it to be the case that OKP's often fall back on race to explain why they don't agree with one of their peers. I've definitely experienced it as a white activist...i.e. "How could you understand what we want? You're white!" Pretty limited way of viewing the world, in my opinion. If I was ignorant enough to say the opposite, how would that sound?"

---->> As for being identified by others as white, Spirit told me that I "must be white" because of my opinions about the process of creating music.
On the Activist board, I always privately thought it was hilarious that utamaroho and Solarus (black men), would rant for pages about the White European Imperialist agenda, then would tell me that I (a white man) had no right to question their black African agenda. (obviously, I think anybody has a right to question/check anyone's agenda...and I agreed with their assessment of White European Imperialism).

Anyway, sorry this is so discombobulated. I'm finishing a paper myself.

Alek
______________________________________
Can't kill something that's already dead.

____________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What? What?

  

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mE_again

Fri May-11-01 02:49 AM

  
93. "jesus h. christ"
In response to Reply # 89


          

identifying myself as
>a 20 yr. old, male,
>white, Jewish undergraduate at Yale
>

and i thought u were a black female

---------------------------
mE_again AKA mE AKA joe1192

mE_again appears courtesy of _again productions

  

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alek
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3625 posts
Sat May-12-01 06:55 PM

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98. "yeah..."
In response to Reply # 93


          

...and a nubian one.


______________________________________
Can't kill something that's already dead.

____________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What? What?

  

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Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Sun May-13-01 02:58 PM

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100. "Word"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

HTP

"identifying myself as a 20 yr. old, male, white, Jewish undergraduate at Yale"



I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!!


"On the Activist board, I always privately thought it was hilarious that utamaroho and Solarus (black men), would rant for pages about the White European Imperialist agenda, then would tell me that I (a white man) had no right to question their black African agenda."

Noone said you did not have the RIGHT to question the "black African agenda." I have just said you (right now)do not have the ABILITY to question it (check the sig).

PEace
Solarus

***Words of Wisdom***

"If it's not about NATIONBUILDING, it's not about ANYTHING."- Dr. John Henrik Clarke

"We are not the victims! We are just fighting forces that we cannot see!"-2001 Sankofa Conference

"You don't have the RIGHT to have free time from your children."-Kwame Agyei Akoto

"It is the worst feeling to hear the call of the drum and not be able to respond."-Solarus

On understanding Afrakan thought:
"it's like explaining astrophysics to a whino, the explanation can't be done like that. when people try to simplify it, they ask the other person to tailor the answers their cultural context. and trying to cater afrikan ideals to european understanding is a REAL sin."-utamaroho

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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alek
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3625 posts
Tue May-15-01 08:56 AM

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103. "Not that easy."
In response to Reply # 100


          

>I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!!

You didn't know my deep, dark, privededged secret?

>"On the Activist board, I always
>privately thought it was hilarious
>that utamaroho and Solarus (black
>men), would rant for pages
>about the White European Imperialist
>agenda, then would tell me
>that I (a white man)
>had no right to question
>their black African agenda."

>Noone said you did not have
>the RIGHT to question the
>"black African agenda." I
>have just said you (right
>now)do not have the ABILITY
>to question it

No no no. Let's dig into this.

Because MY premise is (and always has been) that anyone who cares has the right to question, and that THE ONLY REQUISITE for questioning is that one cares.

In other words, I care about where humanity is headed, so I approach, address, question, interpret, any and all methods of directing it -- including my own.

Now, when it becomes an issue of knowledge on a topic, people with more knowledge can offer instruction to those with less (witness my growing understanding of, say, nation-building). But having an opinion does not require having knowledge.

So you can't deny the "ability" of someone to question. You can claim that their lack of knowledge makes their opinion seem uninformed to you, but they're certainly still "able" and ENTITLED to question.

(hurray for liberal arts education...)

Alek
______________________________________
Can't kill something that's already dead.

____________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What? What?

  

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alek
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3625 posts
Tue May-15-01 09:10 AM

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104. "Also see link."
In response to Reply # 100


          

>I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!!

I was just reading this post and came upon a response (to YOU) where I identified pretty clearly.

http://www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2622&forum=DCForumID1&omm=70

Alek

______________________________________
Can't kill something that's already dead.

____________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What? What?

  

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TinkyWinky
Charter member
2726 posts
Fri May-11-01 11:03 AM

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94. "done and done"
In response to Reply # 0


          

now if anybody wants a copy feel free to request by email, and let me know if you can support a microsoft works document or if you want me to convert it to text. i quoted a few of you, hope you don't mind but i doubt you will.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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TinkyWinky
Charter member
2726 posts
Sat May-12-01 04:18 PM

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97. "only two!?"
In response to Reply # 94


          

more people asked about it on the thread, but i would rather not have to scan 95 replies for it. so email me!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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rashid

Wed May-16-01 01:45 AM

  
105. "RE: only two!?"
In response to Reply # 97


          

I wrote a post that noone replied to, about me being full blooded sioux with white skin. My fathers grandfather (uh..my greatgrandfather i guess) was white, so I guess I am not FULL, but I always wondered why my skin was so pale compared to my mother/father and even my sister's.

Anyway because my skin is lighter I am refered to as 'whiteboy' and people think I am crazy for questioning the system (which my friends say works FOR me, so I should not question it). I never see it here but on some other forums that I frequent (usually about or created for Native American lifestyles) I get talked down to simply because I write somewhat intelligently. People say I am white and lying.......well, this is the racism of my own people showing thru. What I act intelligent and proper so I am white???!!!???

This brings me to all the white people that wear baggy pants and speak like thugs. I hate hearing other whites or they themselves claiming to be acting black.....wtf? Yo Yo wuzup dawg...I's be presuh-DENT (love chris rock) is that what all black people sound like....no, so why is it that my posts seem so WHITE to people.

and if anyone wants to comment my original post concerned why do so many people that are not white view whites as un-able or unwilling to change the system? I have a few white friends that I would die for and they for me....but my NA or AA friends think they would choose sides if it came down to it, I know this not to be true...and I commented on the fact that so many minorities do not vote (i used to think that mattered until recent pres. election). Anyway I am sick of RACE being an issue when it really is of little consequence to political parties outside of black/white.....what ever happened to all the Native Americans, Asian Americans or Latino Americans, if you watch the news you'd think america was only black and white...........

  

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Daydream

Wed May-16-01 08:25 AM

  
106. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This is probably the only place we are free of prejudgemental bias. Here, we are all numbers.


If you need a friend feed any animal -JA

  

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she-ra

Wed May-16-01 08:31 AM

  
107. "invisible race..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

i don't have time to read the all the replies yet. but i just want to say that i was going to write an article for this newspaper on internet identity.

my theory is that (duh) people live vicariously through this created image that they otherwise, couldn't so in real life. it's funny to read some of the posts and know that there are all sorts of people posting in certain ways, and using certain phrases. PASSING - for black or white or puerto rican or whatever. knowing that this is one of the only forums where you can truly constuct a racial identity and not be challenged.

anyway. it's interesting...

sorry about all the babbling...

i've reached the point of dozing at my desk...

  

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okaysouthafrican
Charter member
22 posts
Wed May-16-01 09:23 AM

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109. "RE: Defining race on OKP"
In response to Reply # 0


          

please post your paper when it's done. i think we would all be interested in your conclusions after reading 108+ posts on the subject.

phil

-----------------------------
----

"fo showa!!" - theo huxtable,
upon being asked if he will
have a girlfriend when he
moves out

  

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TinkyWinky
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2726 posts
Wed May-16-01 11:35 AM

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110. "too big to post"
In response to Reply # 109


          

but like i said up a few posts, feel free to email me or inbox me with your email address, i'm perfectly willing to send copies out to anybody who wants one. i only have about 5 replies so far, and i plan to send friday, so try to get it to me by then. i could send more after but i'd like to do it just once.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

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