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nappiness
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1145 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:37 AM

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"Are We Created in God's Image?"


          

In Ezekiel 1:26-28, Rev. 1:12-16, and Daniel God revealed himself. Is God an African (Black) man???? Did God reveal Godself to Ezekiel, John, and Daniel as a dark skinned human being?

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If U WANNA ACTIVATE, contact ChicagoActivist
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NEXT MEETING TBA
~~~~~~~~~
nappiness is next to Godliness!!!!!!
Ms. Nappiness
----------
http://www.geocities.com/okay_poets/begin.html

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
what?
May 16th 2001
1
RE: what?
May 16th 2001
3
      RE: what?
May 16th 2001
10
           Even if it IS a book a' fables...
May 17th 2001
54
RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
May 16th 2001
2
uhm
May 16th 2001
4
      RE: uhm
May 16th 2001
7
      Yes it is
May 16th 2001
37
           Actually......
May 16th 2001
40
Gen 1:26
May 16th 2001
5
RE: Gen 1:26
May 16th 2001
8
RE: Gen 1:26
KAS19
May 16th 2001
11
      RE: Gen 1:26
May 16th 2001
12
      RE: Gen 1:26
KAS19
May 16th 2001
17
      Gen 1:27
May 16th 2001
35
      RE: Gen 1:26
JKilla
May 18th 2001
66
      this works...
May 16th 2001
13
      RE: Gen 1:26
May 16th 2001
25
           RE: Gen 1:26
KAS19
May 16th 2001
27
I think...
May 16th 2001
6
To LexM
masani
May 16th 2001
16
      well thanks
May 16th 2001
19
RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
KAS19
May 16th 2001
9
RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
May 16th 2001
15
      RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
KAS19
May 16th 2001
20
           how about this......
May 16th 2001
24
                RE: how about this......
KAS19
May 16th 2001
28
                     see the .......
May 16th 2001
30
RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
May 16th 2001
14
RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
May 16th 2001
18
i have read them.........
May 16th 2001
21
      RE: i have read them.........
May 16th 2001
22
      *nodding head*
utamaroho
May 16th 2001
23
      RE: i have read them.........
KAS19
May 16th 2001
26
           unkay.
May 16th 2001
29
                RE: unkay.
KAS19
May 16th 2001
31
                     persistent.
May 16th 2001
32
                          RE: persistent.
KAS19
May 16th 2001
34
RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
inthegripofgrace
May 16th 2001
33
RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
KAS19
May 16th 2001
36
      RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
inthegripofgrace
May 16th 2001
38
           RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
KAS19
May 17th 2001
46
                Are We Created....?
inthegripofgrace
May 17th 2001
60
                     RE: Are We Created....?
KAS19
May 17th 2001
61
God doesn't exist...
JMello
May 16th 2001
39
REFLECTION
May 16th 2001
41
RE: REFLECTION
KAS19
May 17th 2001
47
      tyson, will you please.............
May 17th 2001
48
           RE: tyson, will you please.............
KAS19
May 17th 2001
49
                TIME
May 17th 2001
50
                     TIME Again.
May 17th 2001
51
                          RE: TIME Again.
KAS19
May 17th 2001
56
RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
May 16th 2001
42
Here we go again.....So here I go again.....
CoolV
May 17th 2001
43
      questions...
May 17th 2001
44
      RE: Here we go again.....So here I go again.....
May 17th 2001
45
no n/m
May 17th 2001
52
God is spirit
May 17th 2001
53
In my novice opinion...
May 17th 2001
55
RE: In my novice opinion...
thief_in_da_night
May 17th 2001
62
      hey, guy who studies physics...
May 19th 2001
69
           That's deep...
May 19th 2001
70
Most definitely . . . .
HipHopWil
May 17th 2001
57
RE: Most definitely . . . .
JMello
May 17th 2001
59
      RE: Most definitely . . . .
HipHopWil
May 19th 2001
68
Race trivializes God...
JMello
May 17th 2001
58
RE: Race trivializes God...
IllipticallyDefined
May 18th 2001
63
RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
May 18th 2001
64
RE: Are We Created in God's Image?
kvibe23
May 18th 2001
65
Interpreting Scripture
May 19th 2001
67

mcbadfeet
Charter member
1066 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:40 AM

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1. "what?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

are you asking a question?

________________________________________
-representin the real since tuesday
-illified illustrated.word.fresh.

FROM THE GROUND UP- ROOTS 2nd CD- BUY NOW: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000073F6/qid=989953006/sr=1-1/202-6163542-0903066


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underground everything -tekzilla 12"'s and the FINAL Company Flow T-shirt


MY LATEST RAP ALIASES- mcbadfeet aka: the mayor goldie wilson of rap, aka big chris the juicebox, aka jesus jones retired messiah, aka the black jamie lawson of rap, aka thurgood killabitch the IV, aka brooklyn jackson from queens, aka homer pimpson, aka alex p. cheatin, aka benny ill, aka stank sinatra, aka michael j. rocks

  

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nappiness
Charter member
1145 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:46 AM

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3. "RE: what?"
In response to Reply # 1


          

yes, that's what the question marks are for. *smile-jokes*
but seriously it is a question b/c some people feel that God is a colorless shapeless cloud.
--------sig-----------
Monthly BOOK DISCUSSION in OkayActivist
May 3
The Haunting fo HipHop: a novel by Bertice Berry
May 31
Terri McMillan's Day Late Dollar Short
GET YO READ ON .........
------------
If U WANNA ACTIVATE, contact ChicagoActivist
Email us: chicagoactivist@africana.com
Check out the website:
http://chicagoactivist.cjb.net/
Call us: 1-312-777-4001 ext 4409
NEXT MEETING TBA
~~~~~~~~~
nappiness is next to Godliness!!!!!!
Ms. Nappiness
----------
http://www.geocities.com/okay_poets/begin.html

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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mcbadfeet
Charter member
1066 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:53 AM

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10. "RE: what?"
In response to Reply # 3


          

that's kind of like askin if it hurt when adam's rib was pulled out. the bible is like a book of aesops fables. You have to approach the stories in terms of what is important...what the message is. The details aren't important.
________________________________________
-representin the real since tuesday
-illified illustrated.word.fresh.

FROM THE GROUND UP- ROOTS 2nd CD- BUY NOW: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000073F6/qid=989953006/sr=1-1/202-6163542-0903066


ULTIMATE HIP HOP SUPERSTORE: http://www.sandboxautomatic.com/
underground everything -tekzilla 12"'s and the FINAL Company Flow T-shirt


MY LATEST RAP ALIASES- mcbadfeet aka: the mayor goldie wilson of rap, aka big chris the juicebox, aka jesus jones retired messiah, aka the black jamie lawson of rap, aka thurgood killabitch the IV, aka brooklyn jackson from queens, aka homer pimpson, aka alex p. cheatin, aka benny ill, aka stank sinatra, aka michael j. rocks

  

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Solitayre
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8114 posts
Thu May-17-01 06:23 AM

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54. "Even if it IS a book a' fables..."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

which I finally have learned to accept?

It STILL has A LOT of common sense in it (c) Proverbs, Ecclesiastes....

N'est ce pas?

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

  

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abduhu
Charter member
1734 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:46 AM

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2. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>In Ezekiel 1:26-28, Rev. 1:12-16, and
>Daniel God revealed himself.
> Is God an African
>(Black) man????
no.

Did God
>reveal Godself to Ezekiel, John,
>and Daniel as a dark
>skinned human being?
no.

Surah 112: The Purity
1. Say: He Allah is the One.
2. Allah, The Eternal
3. He begets, nor is He Begotten,
4. and there is NONE COMPARABLE UNTO HIM.

subhaanakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

  

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Binlahab
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182910 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:48 AM

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4. "uhm"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

not ot cause any debate on this post, but isn't that 2 different paradigms we're speaking on?


'the clash of 2 worlds...' ~ George Constanza


"what you think, I'm henpecked? Girl, get ya mind checked..." ~ Magoo


art
----------
commerce

on sabbatical.

does it really matter?

wonder what bin's doing?
http://i.imgur.com/phECCMp.jpg

  

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nappiness
Charter member
1145 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:50 AM

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7. "RE: uhm"
In response to Reply # 4


          

explain? and discussion does not equal debate!!!
--------sig-----------
Monthly BOOK DISCUSSION in OkayActivist
May 3
The Haunting fo HipHop: a novel by Bertice Berry
May 31
Terri McMillan's Day Late Dollar Short
GET YO READ ON .........
------------
If U WANNA ACTIVATE, contact ChicagoActivist
Email us: chicagoactivist@africana.com
Check out the website:
http://chicagoactivist.cjb.net/
Call us: 1-312-777-4001 ext 4409
NEXT MEETING TBA
~~~~~~~~~
nappiness is next to Godliness!!!!!!
Ms. Nappiness
----------
http://www.geocities.com/okay_poets/begin.html

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Wed May-16-01 11:48 AM

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37. "Yes it is"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Christianity vs. Islam

The passage nappiness referred to is in the Bible, the Holy Word of Christians, therefore the Quran is not involved in this discussion.

Got that abduhu?

ANyways good to see you back. (How's your ibn?)

I'm out, still haven't finished my paper.

Carry on...



PEace
Solarus

***Words of Wisdom***

"If it's not about NATIONBUILDING, it's not about ANYTHING."- Dr. John Henrik Clarke

"We are not the victims! We are just fighting forces that we cannot see!"-2001 Sankofa Conference

"You don't have the RIGHT to have free time from your children."-Kwame Agyei Akoto

"It is the worst feeling to hear the call of the drum and not be able to respond."-Solarus

On understanding Afrakan thought:
"it's like explaining astrophysics to a whino, the explanation can't be done like that. when people try to simplify it, they ask the other person to tailor the answers their cultural context. and trying to cater afrikan ideals to european understanding is a REAL sin."-utamaroho

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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abduhu
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1734 posts
Wed May-16-01 12:53 PM

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40. "Actually......"
In response to Reply # 37


          

>Christianity vs. Islam
>
>The passage nappiness referred to is
>in the Bible, the Holy
>Word of Christians, therefore the
>Quran is not involved in
>this discussion.
>
>Got that abduhu?
actually, if you re-read my answers, i answered them accordingly. and used no quranic reference to answer them.
he didnot reveal himself as a african, blackman, human being, etc. in those verses. and thats from the bible.

the quran verse was "extra".


>ANyways good to see you back.
>
you too.

(How's your ibn?)
just fine, all praises due to Allah. steadily growing and strong. i feel like im pushing ad pulling on a grocery store door when trying to change dem diapers. thats my little man, though.

>I'm out, still haven't finished my
>paper.
i figured thats why you were absent.

Allah says in the 2nd surah, Al-Baqarah(The Cow) 2.25: But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: "Why, this is what we were fed with before," for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (for ever).

subhaanakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

  

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Phatal
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619 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:49 AM

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5. "Gen 1:26"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:"

This doesn't have anything to do with color. God isn't black or white or anything else. He doesn't have arms or legs or hair. He isn't even a "he" Yes, we were created in God's image and likeness, but I think you're missing the point.



***************************************
Don't hate me cause i'm beautiful/
hate me cause my lyrics sound
smarter than yours/ and my lines
punch harder than yours
-- J-Live


http://www.poemcees.com

--
http://www.phatalspin.com
http://www.reflectiondigital.com

  

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nappiness
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1145 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:52 AM

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8. "RE: Gen 1:26"
In response to Reply # 5


          

i didn't give my personal opinion i simply asked a question so to say i missed the point is not accurate.
--------sig-----------
Monthly BOOK DISCUSSION in OkayActivist
May 3
The Haunting fo HipHop: a novel by Bertice Berry
May 31
Terri McMillan's Day Late Dollar Short
GET YO READ ON .........
------------
If U WANNA ACTIVATE, contact ChicagoActivist
Email us: chicagoactivist@africana.com
Check out the website:
http://chicagoactivist.cjb.net/
Call us: 1-312-777-4001 ext 4409
NEXT MEETING TBA
~~~~~~~~~
nappiness is next to Godliness!!!!!!
Ms. Nappiness
----------
http://www.geocities.com/okay_poets/begin.html

---------------
Veronica-Precious
'Moon'

Check out my publishing company
UnSilenced Woman Press
www.unsilencedwomanpress.com


AquaMoon
Aqua Beats and Moon Verses: Volume I
http://www.spokenexistence.com/aqua_moon.html

  

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KAS19

Wed May-16-01 08:57 AM

  
11. "RE: Gen 1:26"
In response to Reply # 5


          

pardon me,but that's bullshit.how can we refer to a genderless being as father,or countless other words that suggest that he is of the male gender if he is neither?please clarify.....
even jesus called him the father.if he is truly his only begotten son,wouldn't he know his own fathers gender?

  

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Phatal
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619 posts
Wed May-16-01 09:02 AM

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12. "RE: Gen 1:26"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>pardon me,but that's bullshit.how can we
>refer to a genderless being
>as father,or countless other words
>that suggest that he is
>of the male gender if
>he is neither?please clarify.....
>even jesus called him the father.if
>he is truly his only
>begotten son,wouldn't he know his
>own fathers gender?

In this world, the women are the creators of life. However, a patriarchal society has deemed it unfeasible for a woman to be the Divine Creator. Nevertheless, God has both masculine and feminine qualities - else how could both men and women be made in 'His' image?

I don't take every word of the Bible literally, I think you'd be spinning around in circles if you did that. Realize that it was written down by men and reflects the society which created it. Not to say that there aren't universal truths within it. But I do not believe that an all powerful being could be limited by a classification such as gender.


***************************************
Don't hate me cause i'm beautiful/
hate me cause my lyrics sound
smarter than yours/ and my lines
punch harder than yours
-- J-Live

Love poem #480
Poetry people are shady
-- Marla

http://www.poemcees.com

--
http://www.phatalspin.com
http://www.reflectiondigital.com

  

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KAS19

Wed May-16-01 09:24 AM

  
17. "RE: Gen 1:26"
In response to Reply # 12


          

remember,when they said let's create man,eve wasn't there.they were refering to adam.eve came later.who was she fashioned after?
are there female looking deities that roll with god?in hebrew there are the words eloh and elut.they are the masculine and feminine articles for "supreme beings".if god is both,why does the language separate them,and why did he separate them by creating two separate beings?i'm just curious....

  

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Phatal
Charter member
619 posts
Wed May-16-01 11:17 AM

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35. "Gen 1:27"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


Historians have found that the 1st chapter of Genesis was written at a different time and by a different author than chapters 1-5. In Ch. 1 - God is referred to as 'God' (Elohim in the original) in Ch 2. it becomes 'Lord God' (Jehovah in the original). This is important because at the end of Ch. 1 God had made man and woman already.
Then in Chapter 2 you get the whole Adam and Eve story/fable/myth/whatever.



***************************************
Don't hate me cause i'm beautiful/
hate me cause my lyrics sound
smarter than yours/ and my lines
punch harder than yours
-- J-Live

http://www.poemcees.com

--
http://www.phatalspin.com
http://www.reflectiondigital.com

  

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JKilla

Fri May-18-01 07:46 PM

  
66. "RE: Gen 1:26"
In response to Reply # 12


          

Sorry but Women wasn't created in God's image men were, and God created women from the man. Also I know this is a different arguement, but gay men if God wanted it to be men with men he wouldn't have created the beautiful woman from us for us! So stop using God as a escape goat for your ill fornications and evil perversions. Be a man and stop hiding behind the devil; get a beautiful woman she's a gift from God to you so take the gift with honor. Peace and Love

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Wed May-16-01 09:04 AM

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13. "this works..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>even jesus called him the father.if
>he is truly his only
>begotten son,wouldn't he know his
>own fathers gender?

...if you're Christian.




~~~SPITFIRE: 6/28/01~~~
carameldom@hotmail.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bmore-Okayplayers
(((oh yeah...do us a favor & vote: http://www.geocities.com/bmorestreetwise/flyers.html)))

"cats pop champagne/over misery and pain/like slaves on the ship/talkin 'bout/who got the flyest chains" ~~Talib Kweli

"you can't fool me! I'm too stupid!" (c) a random warner bros. cartoon character

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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KOONTZILLA
Charter member
652 posts
Wed May-16-01 09:53 AM

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25. "RE: Gen 1:26"
In response to Reply # 11


          

>pardon me,but that's bullshit.how can we
>refer to a genderless being
>as father,or countless other words
>that suggest that he is
>of the male gender if
>he is neither?please clarify.....
>even jesus called him the father.if
>he is truly his only
>begotten son,wouldn't he know his
>own fathers gender?


THATS BECAUSE MEN WITH NO THOUGHTS OF EQUALITY FOR WOMAN WROTE THE BOOK !!!!!!!

"Niggas mad cause Ibrags about the cash I got, but I'm used to not havin alot, I'm from the gutter and ohh..."-Jay-Z

"Expensive shoes worn, Loui Viton see-through gone, CoChes, my face is like a coupon..."Jay-Z

  

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KAS19

Wed May-16-01 10:10 AM

  
27. "RE: Gen 1:26"
In response to Reply # 25


          

and your god sat back and let it happen,boo-hoo.it's ironic that you say that,when the orchestrators of your religion were the only ones responsible for the act(paul the liar).you act like a buddhist wrote the bible,they were christians,no one else.

  

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LexM
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28342 posts
Wed May-16-01 08:49 AM

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6. "I think..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...this biblical quote is taken too literally.

I don't think God has an "image"...that is a human concept we try to attribute to a spiritual being.

Maybe "God's image" just means that humankind was given the power to think, create, build, and destroy--like God, in a sense, just on a smaller level. God had the universe, we were given the Earth.

We are an expression, a piece of the Divinity, of the universe--hence, God's "image". We can tap into God's power whenever we feel the need (thru prayer, meditation, etc). We are a reflection of a higher force in thought and action--not necessarily in a literal sense (e.g. the old white/black man in the sky).

At least that's what I'm beginning to think. Because there seem to be too many "images" for God to have presented Itself as one or the other.

Of course, in that revelation, they would have seen God as God made sense to them. The human brain has a way of compensating. But I think there is more to the Supreme Being than a simple human form.


~~~SPITFIRE: 6/28/01~~~
carameldom@hotmail.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bmore-Okayplayers
(((oh yeah...do us a favor & vote: http://www.geocities.com/bmorestreetwise/flyers.html)))

"cats pop champagne/over misery and pain/like slaves on the ship/talkin 'bout/who got the flyest chains" ~~Talib Kweli

"you can't fool me! I'm too stupid!" (c) a random warner bros. cartoon character

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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masani

Wed May-16-01 09:17 AM

  
16. "To LexM"
In response to Reply # 6


          

Gurrrlll,

You on fire! You hit the nail on the head!

  

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LexM
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19. "well thanks"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

u made me blush

lol




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KAS19

Wed May-16-01 08:53 AM

  
9. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

hell yeah.in the original language that the bible was written in(hebrew),the word adama is used for the mud or clay that was used to create man.adama is translated as "reddish-brown,or dark brown".so it would be impossible for him to be created from brown dirt,and then mysteriously turn another color.if you look at a lot of other religions around the world,most depictions that you see of "higher beings" or "gods",they are sometimes depicted as jet black,brown,and even topaz.genisis 1:26 states,"let US create man after OUR image and OUR likeness...."
that's sufficient for me.

  

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abduhu
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15. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 9


          

>hell yeah.in the original language that
>the bible was written in(hebrew),the
>word adama is used for
>the mud or clay that
>was used to create man.adama
>is translated as "reddish-brown,or dark
>brown".so it would be impossible
>for him to be created
>from brown dirt,and then mysteriously
>turn another color.

bismillah

why would it be impossible?
the same thought process that you used to determine that that would be impossible, should have lead you to believe that adam being created out of dust, in the first place, should have been impossible, right?

not that i disagree, just posin a "?"


subhaanakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

  

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KAS19

Wed May-16-01 09:33 AM

  
20. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

well,i guess if you could believe in all the other spooky things that are said to have happened in the bible then this wouldn't be a stretch.but why couldn't he just be black if the substance he was created from was reddish-brown or brown?

  

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abduhu
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24. "how about this......"
In response to Reply # 20


          

we understand that through genetics, ppl turn out the way they turn out.

ex: my wife's father is blacker than the ace of spade , and her mother is a light brown color.
well, my wife turn out the color of her mother, BUT my wifes BROTHER, is as black as his dad.

point: couldnt it be possible that when adam was created, that he was created from the DIFFERENT shades of dirt that exist throught the world?
and then when he and his wife started having kids, genetics factored in, and his kids turned out with different complexsions?

also factor this in the equation: unlike today, where some ppl question the colors of their kids b/c of promiscuity, adultery, etc.-father is light, mother is light, kid is dark, leading to "whose child is this?", there was only ADAM AND EVE THEN, and NOBODY ELSE to factor into the equation.

subhaanakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

  

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KAS19

Wed May-16-01 10:23 AM

  
28. "RE: how about this......"
In response to Reply # 24


          

first of all,we're not talking about to mortals procreating,we're talking about the most high.if he really did turn colors(like zartan from g.i. joe)why did he keep the name adam,which is linked to adama meaning reddish-brown,of the earth?
why wouldn't he be called libana,hebrew for "milky white".

  

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abduhu
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30. "see the ......."
In response to Reply # 28


          

second to last line in post#15.

  

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okaysouthafrican
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Wed May-16-01 09:10 AM

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14. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

what this passage/concept means to me is:

perhaps what is meant by "image" is rather that we were created with certain attributes of god not given to other creatures on this earth.

namely, free will. conscience. capacity for compassion.

that's my perspective anyway.

phil

-----------------------------
----

"fo showa!!" - theo huxtable,
upon being asked if he will
have a girlfriend when he
moves out

  

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nappiness
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18. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

for those that have responded have you read the Bible verses that i mentioned or is your response based on what you have heard or was told by someone else?

i am asking about this b/c i reading a book Afrocentric Sermons: The Beauty of Blackness in the Bible. i too had opinions and notions prior to re-reading the verses.
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abduhu
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21. "i have read them........."
In response to Reply # 18


          

wonsta pona tyyyme.

.......and until my brother joined nation of islam, i had never heard such a thing, nor could i have imagined or did i entertain the thought.
and neither had anyone else, until the nation of islam brought it to our attention.
and now, it is the focus of those who wish to build esteem, hope, and dignity in those who were deprived of such adjective qualities for sooooooooo loooooooooong.

its a shame, however, that they had to use falsehood to build them up.

subhaanakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

  

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nappiness
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22. "RE: i have read them........."
In response to Reply # 21


          

actually the book i'm reading is by a black preacher, he is a christian i am not sure what denomination.
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utamaroho

Wed May-16-01 09:43 AM

  
23. "*nodding head*"
In response to Reply # 21


          

in agreement

(((((PEACE)))))
________________________________________________________________
"Adversity causes some men to break, others to break records." -Anonymous

"Pain is weakness leaving the body." -A Navy SEALS Saying

"Fall seven times, stand up eight." -Japanese Proverb

"The conciousness of self is the greatest hindrance to the proper execution of all physical action." -Bruce Lee

  

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KAS19

Wed May-16-01 09:54 AM

  
26. "RE: i have read them........."
In response to Reply # 21


          

whattevamannn!!it's a logical question that even a child would ask.you mean to tell me that since you were a child you didn't once ask yourself what color god was? all the stories that take place in the bible are in regions of the earth that we can prove historically where inhabited by people of color, and you never asked yourself why no one is openly referred to as black in the bible?if you honestly never asked yourself that,it's cool-i guess.but there are others out there who are looking to uncover the truth......

  

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abduhu
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Wed May-16-01 10:32 AM

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29. "unkay."
In response to Reply # 26


          

>whattevamannn!!it's a logical question that even
>a child would ask.
it's a logical question that ONLY a child would ask, b/c of his/her inability to know any better, i.e: not intelligent enough to know, so he/she has to ask someone whom they THINKS knows.

you mean
>to tell me that since
>you were a child
definitely HAVE NOT SINCE i was a child, but maybe WHEN i was a child, but i cant say for sure, hence the negation of it all together.

you
>didn't once ask yourself what
>color god was?
im grown now. maybe i did whence, but i wasnt exactly "religious", if you get my drift.

all the
>stories that take place in
>the bible are in regions
>of the earth that we
>can prove historically where inhabited
>by people of color, and
>you never asked yourself why
>no one is openly referred
>to as black in the
>bible?
you mean to tell me that you did all this as a child? you actually thought of the regions and how "historically" there were ppl of color there, etc.? as a child?? you was a deep child boyyy!!

not trying to be funny, but maybe you arent too far removed from being a child.....in other, clearer, and better words....... maybe you are not as old as some of us who werent exposed to that kind of thought as we were growing up.
im 27, my father was in the army, so i grew up around ALLTYPES of ppl. only when i moved to GA, was i exposed to the onesidedness of nationality.

and to be even more honest, i could count on 2 hands just how many black friends i had in my life,......until i moved to GA.

i still love all colors and shades of ppl, i just have MORE info about them now. and b/c of this info, now i know how to deal w/ them


Allah says in the 2nd surah, Al-Baqarah(The Cow) 2.25: But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: "Why, this is what we were fed with before," for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (for ever).

subhaanakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

  

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KAS19

Wed May-16-01 10:52 AM

  
31. "RE: unkay."
In response to Reply # 29


          

your funny,i mean i'm really laughing at the fact that you THINK your grown because your 27(file for social security yet..please).remember,"from the mouth of babes shall come the gospel..."on one hand your right,i'm not far removed from my youth and i don't ever want to be.ya see,the key to longevity is NOT to forget your youth.i did read more than most children when i was younger.that's because i was raised by people who valued the importance of an education.they also stressed the fact that there is nothing wrong with questioning,and only those who don't know will deter you from asking.or they're trying to conceal what they know to be true(kafiruwn,sound familiar).anyway,imagine a world where no one questioned anything and everything that was given to them was accepted.wait a minute,YOU live in that world.where "youngin's" sware they know it all but follow a religion based on spin off religions.....pitiful.

  

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abduhu
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32. "persistent."
In response to Reply # 31


          

and INSISTENT!!!
youre funny too, guy!

ive explained b4 about that spinoff stuff you keep talking about, but apparently you didnt get it.

so here it isnt again.
........

btw, the spelling of "disbelievers" in arabic reeks of: aka-isa ibn maryam, aka-sudan mahdi, aka-tama re, aka-rev, aka malachi z. york, AKA- THE BIGGEST SCAM ARTIST THIS SIDE OF THE CHATTAHOOCHIE RIVER!!!!!!!
youre VERY familiar w/ his works ARENT YOU?

HIS MAMA CALLED HIM MALACHI, IMA CALL HIM MALACHI!

  

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KAS19

Wed May-16-01 11:15 AM

  
34. "RE: persistent."
In response to Reply # 32


          

seems your more familiar with it than i am.what's the problem?has someone else hurt your poor little feelings about your fake idol-worshipping religion?what's up old man,wanna box with A god?

  

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inthegripofgrace

Wed May-16-01 11:14 AM

  
33. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

If, nappiness' perception of these bible passages is correct and God did literally reveal his visible form to Daniel and Ezekiel, his skin colour, if it is of importance, would have been one that would not seem out of the ordinary in Ezekiel or Daniel's time and place, i.e. Ezekiel and Daniel lived in the middle east, the predominant skin colour of which would have been mediterranean, (true, black skin would have been common in the area but not among the jews) if God had revealed Himself any other colour it would have seemed strange to a jew. If God revealed Himself with black skin it would have been recorded by the authors.
It is not, however, consistent with the teachings of the bible that God revealed His physical form: He said to Moses that no one can look on him and live. In the past when God came to people it was as the 'angel of the Lord', it is widely accepted that this was Jesus Himself before he was born into this world as its saviour: Jesus was the Word and, 'in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God' (john 1).

In the passages nappiness quotes, it does not state that God revealed his face; rather his glory. In the context of John's revelation the vision he saw must be taken from a different perspective as it was after the incarnation of Jesus. Seeing God's face it would have been Jesus' face - as Jesus is God. However, it again does not state that John saw the features of God's face: 'His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance' - No man can look directly at the sun without being blinded.

Concerning the question of whether we are created in God's image; as there are many races and different features in the physical characteristics of people, the statement cannot refer to God's skin colour, or any hair style, or number of teeth, or whether he wears Nike or Adidas. He created all men equally, so no visual characteristics are preferable in his sight.
God said let us create man in our image refering to the trinity. We are tri-part beings, created with spirit, soul and body. This does not mean you can compare any of our parts to that of the deity. It also refered to our ability for free will, love, etc. Being created in God's image we are set apart from other beings.

The trouble with trying to fully understand questions such as these is that our limited human understanding is nothing compared to God's. His plan could not possibly be understood by us because our capacity for thought is held within the confines of ourselves, our world and what God has given us. To understand everything in the Bible would leave no room for faith, the basis for our salvation.

  

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KAS19

Wed May-16-01 11:43 AM

  
36. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 33


          

that sounds good but if we were created after a supreme being why can't we have supreme intellect?see,thats tha problem with your big 3 monotheistic religions.who says we can't understand?only someone who doesn't want to tell you the truth would say that....

  

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inthegripofgrace

Wed May-16-01 12:45 PM

  
38. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 36


          

>if we
>were created after a supreme
>being why can't we have
>supreme intellect?see,thats tha problem with
>your big 3 monotheistic religions.who
>only someone
>who doesn't want to tell
>you the truth would say
>that....

I didn't say "don't seek the answer" - the fact that we have free will means we should never just accept the facts given to us - God intended us to choose to believe, He won't force us into a belief and doesn't want anyone else to. I simply stated that since God is infinite, we as limited beings will never FULLY understand Him. - To understand God fully would make us equal to Him. This puts us in a good position as there will always be more to learn about our Creator and Saviour. God wants us to seek to understand His character and attributes with personal experience. And Jesus said "seek and you WILL find" - Matthew .

You asked,

>why can't we have
>supreme intellect?

Well think about it - it impossible to have more than one infinite being (be it infinite intellect or power etc). Eventually the two beings would collide with each other and cease being infinite.

Why don't you try to understand what it is like to be absolutely infinite in power, wisdom etc. - and see how it can blow your mind.

  

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KAS19

Thu May-17-01 04:11 AM

  
46. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 38


          

in actuality,we are infinite beings.energy can neither be created or destroyed.that means once you "pass on",your essence still exists.if we truly could understand god,it wouldn't be a matter of us being his equal,he would be OUR equal.remember,the god of the bible has more human characteristics than supreme being characteristics.he gets jealous,angry,and destroys people,makes threats,AND procreates!!if thats not understandable then i don't know what is......

  

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inthegripofgrace

Thu May-17-01 08:33 AM

  
60. "Are We Created....?"
In response to Reply # 46


          

>in actuality,we are infinite beings.

Sorry, your wrong there. We are eternal beings, not infinite beings. That means we live forever - once we are created. It DOESN'T mean we have infinite power, or infinite knowledge or can experience infinite love for others etc. Eternal life and infinite life are two very different things.

>energy can
>neither be created or destroyed.that
>means once you "pass on",your
>essence still exists.

You couldn't be further from the truth...Genesis 1:27 'So God CREATED man in his own image, in the image of God he CREATED him; male and female he CREATED them.' (my capitals)

I think it's fairly obvious that, if we are using this bible passage as a basis of the discussion, we can assume that we are to know that we are CREATED beings. 'Created' means we did not exist until the Creator (for a creation requires a Creator) brought us into existence.

What distinguishes God from us and every other molecule in the universe or spiritual realm is this: We were created, God was not. Not infinity or eternal life but the very fact that EVERYTHING BUT GOD was created. And as created beings we are not infinite for as I said in the above post there cannot possibly be two infinite beings in existence.


if we
>truly could understand god,it wouldn't
>be a matter of us
>being his equal,he would be
>OUR equal.remember,the god of the
>bible has more human characteristics
>than supreme being characteristics.he gets
>jealous,angry,and destroys people,makes threats,AND procreates!!if
>thats not understandable then i
>don't know what is......

We as created (therefore finite) beings have a limited number of characteristics. God, being infinite in every way, has an infinite number of characteristics. That means an infinite number of different feelings, infinite number of attributes etc. E.g being omnipotent is just one example of His attributes. Your list of his characteristics and even the bible's list cannot possibly be exhaustive of his attributes. God has feelings we can't even begin to imagine. In fact, try and think of/invent just one emotion/feeling that human's don't have - not one that God has and we don't (and try doing it for a minute before you reply this time - as it seems obvious you didn't last time - and then you will have given more thought on the subject). If you do try it you'll realise you cannot understand an emotion which you do not possess - think I'm wrong? try it. This is what I meant by understanding God FULLY. In fact try understanding what it means to have infinite love - love for everything and everyone...those who hate you, those who murder, rape...would you be willing to die for the same person who is crucifying you?

  

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KAS19

Thu May-17-01 09:37 AM

  
61. "RE: Are We Created....?"
In response to Reply # 60


          

first of all,just because your religion cannot explain why we are infinite beings doesn't mean it isn't true.according to your bible in the beginning it was just god and his angels(elohim,whatever you want to call them).then he created man.then the sons of god came down and had children with the women of earth.i'm being brief,so pardon me.if we all are direct creations of an infinite being,and we have a little bit of his hosts mixed in also,why is it so hard to be an infinite being when you were created by one and again mixed in with more ones?i think the problem is that your religion CAN'T fully address the infinite because you then would have to see that your lord isn't.or he isn't properly described as such.you still didn't address the fact that energy(which we all are,just surrounded in flesh)can't be destroyed.so what happens when you die?another thing,if god wasn't created,why did he have to breath?he breathed the breathe of life into us,which means he inhales and exhales.that means he is subject to the same involuntary laws of nature as we are on this plane of existence.he also ate with abraham.if he didn't eat,would he starve?you say he wasn't created,but the book says otherwise,if your REALLY reading it....

  

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JMello

Wed May-16-01 12:47 PM

  
39. "God doesn't exist..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

...so I hope not.


JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

  

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Sudani
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Wed May-16-01 09:52 PM

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41. "REFLECTION"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



to ME, we were created as a REFLECTION of the MERCY and MIGHT of the CREATOR who is NEVER Limited or bound by anything including time and space.

  

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KAS19

Thu May-17-01 04:15 AM

  
47. "RE: REFLECTION"
In response to Reply # 41


          

sounds nice,but your god is limited by time and space.remember,he lives IN heaven.1,000 years is 1 DAY to him.sorry sis,but he is bound to time and space just like us.

  

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abduhu
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Thu May-17-01 04:28 AM

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48. "tyson, will you please............."
In response to Reply # 47


          

stop biting ppl's ears off, PLEASE!!
"what's up old man,wanna box with A god?"

lennox, when are you going to learn.
you have to prepare for a bout.
ya just cant fly down here after coming of a movie set (your world, that is), and think you gonna put the hammer down.
what do you think this is? the movies!

>1,000 years is 1
>DAY to him.

1000 of whose years? ours.
who defines our years? he does.

so when you have the ability to define and set something, are you bound to it? no, not unless you bind yourself to it, which is obvious He didnt bind Himself to it.
and He said "is Like a day", not "is a day". big difference. the difference between definite and indefinite.


Allah says in the 2nd surah, Al-Baqarah(The Cow) 2.25: But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: "Why, this is what we were fed with before," for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (for ever).

subhaanakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

  

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KAS19

Thu May-17-01 05:18 AM

  
49. "RE: tyson, will you please............."
In response to Reply # 48


          

if he invented time,that means he existed before time.how could he be subject to it?now this is the creater of the boundless universe we're talking about.not me or you or anyone else.and if "like" is indefinite,why didn't he say 10,000 years or 100,000?what possible use could he have for time if he existed before the heavens,the earth,and other celestial bodies?how long did he exist before he felt the need to chart time?what i'm getting at is if we're truly talking about the most high,why is he bound by space(remember,he lives IN heaven,which takes up space somewhere,which renders him subject to his on creation.is he subject to us...hmmm?)and time.i suppose he is going to grow old and die also,right?pulleeeeze.

  

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abduhu
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Thu May-17-01 05:57 AM

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50. "TIME"
In response to Reply # 49


          

taken from:http://www.harunyahya.org/Eng/never/never14.html
NEVER PLEAD IGNORANCE
Harun Yahya

NEVER PLEAD IGNORANCE THAT TIME IS A VARIABLE PERCEPTION AND THAT EVERYTHING IS PREDESTINED

Time is also a kind of perception resulting from conclusions we make from our sensory experience. This perception occurs as a result of apparently consecutive events taking place. We perceive the flow of time by comparing the changes in motions we observe one with another. We hear the door ringing, for instance. Ten minutes later it rings again. We perceive that there is an interval between the first ring and second, and interpret this interval as "time". Alternatively, a glass falls and breaks, coal burns and becomes ashes, we walk and find ourselves in one corner of the room while a moment ago we were in the opposite corner. The time passing between these causes and effects and the movements we observe around us gives us clues about the passage of time. Our past experiences also provide us clues enabling us to make almost accurate estimates about how much time an event needs to takes place. If we measure that it takes 10 minutes to walk from home to the nearest bus station, we can assume that it will take approximately 10 minutes to walk the same distance again. Yet someone who is asked how long it takes to walk this distance will probably have little idea if he has never walked that distance before, except according to his experience of having walked similar distances. The sun rises, sets and by the time it again rises the next day, we say, "a day passed by." When this process is repeated for 30 or 31 days, we say this time, "A month passed." Yet, if you were asked about that month, you would confess that the whole month passed like a moment, realising that you do not recall many details about that month. Still, all the cause and effect relations together with all the actions we observe give us clues about time. If night did not follow day and we did not have a watch indicating the time, we would probably arrive at erroneous conclusions about how many minutes or hours passed by or when the day begins and ends. That is why time is, in fact, a perception we can never comprehend without the existence of points of comparison. The way time's flow is perceived also shows that time is only a psychological perception. While you are waiting for your friend in the middle of a street, a ten minutes' delay seems like a long, almost everlasting period of time. Alternatively, a person who hasn't had enough sleep at night may perceive a ten minutes' nap in the morning as very long and relaxing. Sometimes just the contrary happens. At school, a boring forty minutes' lesson may seem to be like ages while a ten minutes break passes very quickly. Or, you perceive the weekend you impatiently await as a very short period of time while working days seem long. No doubt, these are the feelings, shared by almost everyone, indicating that time changes according to the one who perceives it and his state. You must never plead ignorance about this OBVIOUS fact, which you also experience.

Allah, in the Qur'an, draws our attention to the fact that time is a psychological perception:

He will say: "How many years did you tarry on the earth?" They will say: "We tarried there for a day or part of a day. Ask those who keep account." (Surat al-Muminun: 112-113)

On the Day He calls you, you will respond by praising Him and think that you have only tarried a very short time. (Surat al-Isra: 52)

On the day We gather them together when it will seem if they had tarried no more than an hour of a single day they will recognise one another. Those who denied the meeting with Allah will have lost. They were not guided. (Surah Yunus: 45)

As the verses above also indicate, the perception of time changes from one person to another. What remains from a life which seemed to be everlasting, yet which ends abruptly, are only reminiscences that would occupy five to ten sheets of paper. In other verses, Allah relates that time takes different forms according to different conditions. Allah says:

The angels and the spirit ascend to Him in a day whose length is fifty thousand years. (Surat al-Ma'arij: 4)

He directs the whole affair from heaven to earth. Then it will again ascend to Him on a day whose length is a thousand years by the way you measure. (Surat as-Sajdah: 5)

Allah creates our perception of time. Allah, the Creator of time, is by no means dependent on it. This is a crucial fact and it provides the answer to a crucial question asked by many people: what is destiny?

The majority of people experience difficulty in understanding the meaning of the concept of destiny.

Destiny is the eternal knowledge of Allah, Who is independent of time and Who prevails over the whole of time and space, about all occurrences and situations of all the beings that are dependent on time. Allah is the Creator of all these actions and situations just as He is the Creator of "time." In the same way as we easily see a ruler's beginning, middle, and end, and all the units in between as a whole, Allah knows the time to which we are subject to as if it were a single moment right from its beginning to its end.

No doubt, this is certain. Allah, Who is not bound by the relative time-frame within which we are confined, encompasses everything time-related. So, never plead ignorance that All-Mighty Allah created you and that every important or insignificant occurrence you encounter in life is within the knowledge of Allah and predestined.

Despite this OBVIOUS fact, the majority of people have a distorted understanding of destiny. They assume that they can step out of the boundaries of destiny, "overcome their destiny" or they can live a life separate and independent from destiny. However, as stated earlier, our destinies are in the eternal knowledge of Allah and Allah knows all incidents in the past, present and future, as a single moment. It is unlikely that human beings, who are subject to time, can exceed the boundaries of this single moment and change anything or manage it by their own will. To claim the contrary would be irrational. We are again face to face with an irrefutable fact: it is implausible that one can change or divert one's own destiny. Surely, the existence of every moment of one's life is dependent upon the exercise of the will of Allah and man cannot do anything, even he cannot think, without the will of Allah. So, never plead ignorance of this CERTAIN fact.

i hope this clears up this matter of time.

Allah says in the 2nd surah, Al-Baqarah(The Cow) 2.25: But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: "Why, this is what we were fed with before," for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (for ever).

subhaanakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

  

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abduhu
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51. "TIME Again."
In response to Reply # 50


          

http://www.harunyahya.com/Eng/EvolDec/e19.html
just in case you dont "feel" the first one.

Allah says in the 2nd surah, Al-Baqarah(The Cow) 2.25: But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: "Why, this is what we were fed with before," for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (for ever).

subhaanakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

  

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KAS19

Thu May-17-01 06:49 AM

  
56. "RE: TIME Again."
In response to Reply # 51


          

the bottom line is he should be above the concept of time.if you put him in heaven he is within the confines of a thing.so he can't be boundless.time is an abstraction.and more importantly,where would he be that he could even use a time reference?he said "like a 1,000 years" which means it could be more or less.

  

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DJ Oddysey
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42. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I do not think that that is a question that any of us is equiped to answer. I will say this. God is bigger than any one race and I personally believ his physical appearance is beyond comprehension. Those scriptures may also not be talking about literaly either. He may have shown them his will or something of that nature. But that is a question that I dont think can be answered by anyone on Okayplayer.



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CoolV

Thu May-17-01 02:07 AM

  
43. "Here we go again.....So here I go again....."
In response to Reply # 42


          

Will this topic of Allah as Man/Man as Allah ever be concluded? After reading the responses of this post, I've reached the sad conclusion that the enemy has made us think absolutely nothing of ourselves. I have this discussion/debate at least once everyday.

Abduhu, you already know on which side of the fence I take on the issue. You should have known I was gonna show up...and every time I hear statements like "it's a shame, however, that they had to use falsehood to build them up", I'll be right on ya.

Good to see you back on the boards, though. I've missed my sparring potna

Now, the reason that I say that is because apparently we think so little of ourselves and seem to be convinced that Allah/God cares so little, if at all, about us. He has sent a "representative" if you will to every ppl.

Why do you all think that He would not send one to you??

Let's get to the meat of the concept, though, shall we? Both Holy Qu'ran and Bible make reference to the coming of the Mahdi and the Messiah respectively. Both religions are looking for the coming of a MAN. Not the arrival of a "spirit" or spook floating in the air like some ghost.

Boooo!! (scared ya, did'nt I)

The Bible speaks very clearly when it says in the scripture "after the workings of Satan, I will come."

Now on to the topic of wheather or not man can fully understand the will, wisdom and aim of Allah started from the brother reppin' the 5%.

(interesting side note: ever notice that the # 5 and "%" is on the same key? Maybe not that interesting.)


The words of Jesus come to mind where he says to the disciples in the latter part of the gospels (paraphrasing)"..it is expedient that I go away so that the comforter can come unto you...HE will guide you into ALL KNOWLEDGE."

So, we have here a "he" (a man) that is being sent to US that posesses (sp?) ALL KNOWLEDGE? So I pose the question to you all who are of the mindset that it is impossible for God to be Man and vice-versa, what kind of man comes w/ ALL KNOWLEDGE except one who is a conduit of the spirit of Allah Himself?

Ppl, you are more than just flesh, bones and blood. Your very essence is divine!
Ok, sermon over!
You know folks hate being preached to. I'm sure someone will argue the merits of my interpretation of the scripture, so in closing, I ask this last question:

In the Holy Qu'ran, it is stated that "Allah taught the book", to prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Through whom? And what does that make THAT person?

Peace.


********************************************************************************
"When the Black Man of North America makes up his mind to be that which Allah has created him to be, which is a replica of Himself, then and only then can he call the universe into order."

-Me.

  

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LexM
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44. "questions..."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

>Ppl, you are more than just
>flesh, bones and blood.
>Your very essence is divine!

ok...


>In the Holy Qu'ran, it is
>stated that "Allah taught the
>book", to prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
>
>
>Through whom? And what does
>that make THAT person?

It makes him a man who heard God & passed on the message...but are you arguing that man IS God just because man has recieved God's revelations throughout time?

Where is the source? Wouldn't there be something larger than man sending the message? How else could so many have recieved (practically) the same knowledge at so many different points in history?

I think there's a medium between man = God/Allah/whatever and God being a so-called "spook" in the sky that is going to solve all our problems.



~~~SPITFIRE: 6/28/01~~~
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abduhu
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45. "RE: Here we go again.....So here I go again....."
In response to Reply # 43


          

>Will this topic of Allah as
>Man/Man as Allah ever be
>concluded? After reading the
>responses of this post, I've
>reached the sad conclusion that
>the enemy has made us
>think absolutely nothing of ourselves.
> I have this discussion/debate
>at least once everyday.
>
>Abduhu, you already know on which
>side of the fence I
>take on the issue.
>You should have known I
>was gonna show up...and every
>time I hear statements like
>"it's a shame, however, that
>they had to use falsehood
>to build them up", I'll
>be right on ya.

seriously though, when i said:
".......and until my brother joined nation of islam, i had never heard such a thing, nor could i have imagined or did i entertain the thought. and neither had anyone else, until the nation of islam brought it to our attention",
had anyone had this type of concept b4 hand? be honest.

and:
"and now, it is the focus of those who wish to build esteem, hope, and dignity in those who were deprived of such adjective qualities for sooooooooo loooooooooong."
isnt it? be honest. well maybe not THE focus, but A focus, agreed?

and:
"its a shame, however, that they had to use falsehood to build them up."
you believe that the bible has been tampered w/ right?
if so, then there is falsehood in it, right?. and this is the falsehood i am referring to.
i wasnt making any specific reference to noi, besides the concept of god being black, thats it.
sorry, if i wasnt clear. although, im not saying i agree w/ the beliefs of the noi:-). thats an offline discussion, for now.


>Good to see you back on
>the boards, though. I've
>missed my sparring potna

thanks. youve been in and out yourself. no doubt due to the blessed marriage of yours.
email me w/ the time and where. insha'allah, we will build.

>In the Holy Qu'ran, it is
>stated that "Allah taught the
>book", to prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
>
>
>Through whom? And what does
>that make THAT person?

Allah taught the book to muhammad(saws) through Gabriel, the holy angel(as).

Here is a narration from the prophet muhammad's wife on how revelation was brought to him(saws).

Volume 1, Book 1, Number 2:
Narrated 'Aisha:

(the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah's Apostle "O Allah's Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?" Allah's Apostle replied, "Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes ' off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says." 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the Inspiration was over).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
Narrated 'Aisha:

(the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read.

The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones."

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's Apostle described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while.

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari while talking about the period of pause in revelation reporting the speech of the Prophet "While I was walking, all of a sudden I heard a voice from the sky. I looked up and saw the same angel who had visited me at the cave of Hira' sitting on a chair between the sky and the earth. I got afraid of him and came back home and said, 'Wrap me (in blankets).' And then Allah revealed the following Holy Verses (of Quran):

'O you (i.e. Muhammad)! wrapped up in garments!' Arise and warn (the people against Allah's Punishment),... up to 'and desert the idols.' (74.1-5) After this the revelation started coming strongly, frequently and regularly."


gabriel only TOOK the form of a man.
he was NOT a man.
we was an angel, that "medium" betwext Allah and man.


Allah says in the 2nd surah, Al-Baqarah(The Cow) 2.25: But give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therefrom, they say: "Why, this is what we were fed with before," for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy); and they abide therein (for ever).

subhaanakallahumma wabihamdika ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta astaghfiruka wa attuubu ilaika

  

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rgv
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Thu May-17-01 06:08 AM

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52. "no n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"u cant see ahead w/ ur head down" - qua'ran tauheed {my baybee sister}

i just want chu to know
how i feel
how i feel

  

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Nettrice
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Thu May-17-01 06:21 AM

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53. "God is spirit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"We know that God doesn't have a color because He doesn't have a body. He is Spirit and He's present everywhere (Ps. 13 -12). Whether we're sitting at home or flying miles above the earth, He is there and we can call out to Him. His ears are always open to our cry (Ps. 34:15). He isn't an idol or a mere idea. God is Spirit, almighty, always present, ever available."

Why does God have to be a physical manifestation of man?

What does God's image have to do with faith? Humans are the only beings that require some kind of tangible proof to justify their existence. Image is not as important as faith. Faith requires trust in the intangible and unseen.

If I look in the mirror I would like to hope that I am seeing God's image. I am seeing God's image but not as I think God is supposed to look like. God just is. The only proof I need is faith. I see God in everything.

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Solitayre
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Thu May-17-01 06:49 AM

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55. "In my novice opinion..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It seems that in the book called "The Holy Bible", GOD is referenced as a couple things....

1.)All knowing, seeing, hearing, etc....
2.)ALL AROUND US AT ALL TIMES....
3.)EVERYTHING...

So to say that the black man is the very image of GOD, in my opinion is correct. Why?

Well here are some things I noticed while either reading the bible or taking notice of what's around me....


In the bible, GOD was said to be the creator of all liing things...In fact, somewhere in the gospel, Jesus is said to have referenced himself as the son of the LIVING GOD...It is said also said that obedience to GOD's wishes and laws will result in
everlasting LIFE...So what is the point of what I just said...

GOD is represented through LIFE. And vice versa.

Proof:

If you take notice of the common thread through which all life is established you start to notice certain patterns...
Some of the patterns I noticed of LIFE or WE...

We all are birthed...
We all need water and food of some sort...
We all create at least one of the groups of building blocks such as PROTEINS, SUGARS, FATS, or CARBOHYDRATES...
We tend to commune with our own type...
Finally,
We all cease the processes of LIFE...

Or shall I say GOD, being that it is represented through these things...I can't call it...

Anyway,

back to the subject...

What I just tried to prove (Assuming that not only the audience would have noticed THE SAME SIMILARITIES BETWEEN DIFF SPECIES but, I also hoped the audience would humor my lack of SCIENTIFIC FACT..) is that

LIFE/GOD TRULY IS ALL AROUND YOU...

The greatest proof of this is the universe.

It surrounds us at all times...

We are as much part of it as we are part of Earth because Earth itself is enveloped by it...

So the universe, like God/LIFE, is all around us...

Wouldn't that be like saying that LIFE is represented through the universe???

Well you decide...

Oh yeah to tie all this in and not waste your time...What color is the universe? It is the color of all things...Even that whic we can't see through our normal scope of vision...That color is...Well...BLACK.

_____________________________________________
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thief_in_da_night

Thu May-17-01 07:28 PM

  
62. "RE: In my novice opinion..."
In response to Reply # 55


          

actually, as a guy who studies physics, black or darkness isnt a colour. its the absence of light.

  

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Solitayre
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69. "hey, guy who studies physics..."
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

>actually, as a guy who studies
>physics, black or darkness isnt
>a colour. its the absence
>of light.



_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

  

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Solitayre
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70. "That's deep..."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

I guess I'm supposed to be impressed with your study of physics..

I have an experiment for ya...

Since black or darkness isn't a colour and it's the absence of light perform this little test and feel free to answer the following inquiry...

Take a blank piece of paper,
a complete box of crayons,
and mix every color in the box in the same spot on the same piece of paper...

The new "colour" your eyes should register can be described as black or darkness...

But since black or darkness is the absence of light, how do you know this, I mean isn't everthing we see merely an image of a reflection of VISIBLE light, which in itself is but a SMALL portion of the ENTIRE LIGHT SPECTRUM? Or am I incorrect in saying this..?

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

  

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HipHopWil

Thu May-17-01 07:58 AM

  
57. "Most definitely . . . ."
In response to Reply # 0


          

we just have to learn how act Godly. Our actions/lifestyles need to coincide with our Godly image. We gotta lotta work to do . . . .

  

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JMello

Thu May-17-01 08:12 AM

  
59. "RE: Most definitely . . . ."
In response to Reply # 57


          

>we just have to learn how
>act Godly. Our actions/lifestyles
>need to coincide with our
>Godly image. We gotta
>lotta work to do .
>. . .

Whatever makes you feel better.


JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

  

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HipHopWil

Sat May-19-01 06:15 PM

  
68. "RE: Most definitely . . . ."
In response to Reply # 59


          

o-kay . . . ? ? ? ?

  

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JMello

Thu May-17-01 08:12 AM

  
58. "Race trivializes God..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

>In Ezekiel 1:26-28, Rev. 1:12-16, and
>Daniel God revealed himself.
> Is God an African
>(Black) man???? Did God
>reveal Godself to Ezekiel, John,
>and Daniel as a dark
>skinned human being?

By even suggesting that man-made racial identities have any bearing on your so-called all-seing, all-knowing God, you are trivializing your whole believe in such a being.

If God sees race the same way we do, then God is not worth worship or reverance.


JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

  

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IllipticallyDefined

Fri May-18-01 05:32 AM

  
63. "RE: Race trivializes God..."
In response to Reply # 58


          

read exodus kidddies... God tells Mr. Moses "man shall not see my face and live"

  

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okaysouthafrican
Charter member
22 posts
Fri May-18-01 05:53 AM

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64. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i suspect that GOD is simple beyond our full comprehension. which is not to say that humans can never grasp it, but that few of us have even the smallest part of the picture.

however one percieves god is a viable possibility because there is no "PROOF", that's why it's called faith.

questioning the nature and existence of god is essential to faith, but to try and make hard conclusions and impress them upon others (as some players here do) is really quite moot.

you may have your suspicions and beliefs as i have mine, and your faith may be stronger than mine. but to close yourself off to possibilities because you are so certain that your part of the picture is correct could be a terrible mistake.

pat buchanan is certain of his beliefs and quotes the BIBLE to support them. the KKK does the same. beligerently.

let's be careful.

phil

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----

"fo showa!!" - theo huxtable,
upon being asked if he will
have a girlfriend when he
moves out

  

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kvibe23

Fri May-18-01 07:09 PM

  
65. "RE: Are We Created in God's Image?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

don't take this literally, you gotta break it down, listen what are we made out of? cells right? what are cells made of, down at the base, atoms, what atoms made of, protons,neutrons, electrons, and these, quarks neutrinos, and so on... what do all these elements have in common they're circles, spheres, or spirals....they're round. look around you how made round shaped things do you see, you at your fingerprints.
this is God's, Allah's, Buddha's what ever you want to call her
this is her image(yes her and no i am not a chick)
these are just different manifestations

  

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osoclasi
Charter member
993 posts
Sat May-19-01 09:20 AM

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67. "Interpreting Scripture"
In response to Reply # 65


          

First of all I think when we look at scripture we must do so carefully. Using the laws of Hermeneutics(how to interprete the Bible or any literary work).

Answer Ezekial 1:26 when the Bible talks about images that a particular vison of God this is what is known as a theophany(literally, God-apperances). This what Adam was running from in the garden and who Moses was talking to in the burning bush. Notice he did not say he saw God directly.

Answer Daniel 7:13 This the first reference to the Messiah the coming of the Son of Man in this context this when the Messiah will return as the ruler over the entire earth verse 14.

Gen 1:26 when God places man in his own image what does he mean?
Well the bible makes it clear he is not human John 4:24 and also Ex 3:14 I AM that I Am refers to God Pure Being or Existance with no potenialiality. So how we like God because we share some of his attributes such as will, wisdom, and we feel. That is what we share with the creator.

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En arche en 'o logos, kai 'o logos en pros ton Theon, kai Theos en logos

  

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