*this email was sent to me by a friend, & i thought to pass it on, not sayin to answer every question HERE in this forum, b/c those are sum private questions, but to just think about em, & recollect*

these questions come from a book entitled "What
Happened to Daddy's Little Girl: The Impact of
Fatherlessness on Black Women" by Jonetta Rose
Barras...they're from a chapter entitled "Self
Examination" and i thought they were good ones to
ponder/meditate upon/ consider...

...L...
~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~ * ~
1) At what age did you have your first sexual
experience?

2) What was your chief motivation for entering that
relationship, or those relationships?

3) Do you distinguish sex from love, or are they the
same thing to you?

4) Did you ever consider having a child, although at
the time you weren't married? If yes, how old were you
and what motivated the desire?

5) If you have children, what is your relationship
with them- are they used to fill the empty space in
your life; so they serve as a weapon for keeping your
partner in line, etc. If you do not have children, so
you still have a strong desire to have them; what is
your motivation?

6) How and why did you end your last relationship?

7) How strongly do you respond to criticism from a
mate? Even when the criticism is valid, do you
sometimes find yourself worried about whether the
comments mean he is about to break off the
relationship?

8) Do you prefer dating men who are married, have
another girlfriend, or are intensely involed with
their work?

9) Do you sometimes find yourself in a good
relationship but still feel uncomfortable about it?

10) How often have you ended a relationship before the
man whom you were dating, living with, or married to
decided to end it?

11) When you look at yourself in the mirror, what do
you see? Are you comfortable or uncomfortable with
your body image?

12) How many times have you tried dieting or gaining
weight over the last three years?

13) Have you ever suffered bulimia, anorexia, or any
other eating disorder?

14) When you are hurt, angry, or lonely, do you
frequently head for the refridgerator, for the stove,
or for that bottle of wine?

15) How often do you head for work, either in your
house or at your office, when things are going badly
in a relationship?

16) Do you lash out at others for no apparent reason?

17) Have you within the past five years been the first
to attack, verbally or physically, your male partner?

18) Do you sometimes become so angry with yourself
that you deny yourself certain niceties?

19) Do you sometimes spend days in bed when you are
not physically ill, find yourself tired when you have
exerted very little if any physical energy, realize
you can't get yourself motivated?

20) Have you ever thought that you would be better off
dead, ever thought of commiting suicide, ever
attempted suicide?

21) Do you sometimes bend over backward in a
relationship, attempting to please the other person,
even if it means sacrificing your own pleasure and
happiness?

22) Do you invest more time in helping a man improve
his life than you do in improving your own?

23) Are you frequently overly conscious of how people
perceive you?

24) Do you feel that you never measure up to others?

25) Do you believe everything you do has to be
perfect?









"u cant see ahead w/ ur head down" - qua'ran tauheed {my baybee sister}

i just want chu to know
how i feel
how i feel

i'm re-reading jill nelson's 'straight no chaser' and she has a checklist of what sistas should want in a mate. this reminded me of it...coincidence?

good ?s, too...i'm answering them in my head, though.

just sayin'.

~~wbg~~
Chicago 2001...y'all ain't ready.
http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines.html
(you can't say i didn't warn you: take any issues to my inbox)
http://www.breastcancer3day.org
http://www.chicagoactivist.org (under construction)
and b/c it made me laugh:
"I'm just trying to get in: I'm not running for Jesus!"
(c) homer simpson (who else?)

~~wbg~~
"I pray sometimes to keep my head together,
because you can use prayer however you want.
There are no rules one way or the other."
--Jami Attenberg

http://helpcde.blogspot.com
http://queeneulalia.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/queeneulalia

I am grateful every day of my life that I have a good father. And I hope that I can give that same gift to my children (if I ever have them).

One thing that shocks me is the idea that girls don't "need" their fathers like boys do.



~~~SPITFIRE (NEW DATE): AUGUST 23, 2001~~~
carameldom@hotmail.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bmore-Okayplayers
(((oh yeah...do us a favor & vote here: http://www.geocities.com/bmorestreetwise/flyers.html)))

"cats pop champagne/over misery and pain/like slaves on the ship/talkin 'bout/who got the flyest chains" ~~Talib Kweli

"you can't fool me! I'm too stupid!" (c) a random warner bros. cartoon character

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

children, male or female need PARENTS.

i hate when ppl say that shit.


"everything that we could be,
is blocked by what we are."
- okp Fuzzymath

i just want chu to know
how i feel
how i feel

peace,


Absentee Father Syndrome....

that is what my husband and i call it. it severly affects men because they have to GUESS how to go about being a man and learning how NOT to RUN in times of difficulty.

But....

With the Females it is dfferent. most black women i know have HAD TO be VERY defensive in thier lives because they didn't have a father to come and defend them, even if it was just a word of wisdom. It is like EVERY DAY a young lady has to go home without her father at home, the LESS she feels like she will be able to TRUST ANYONE to commit to her in any way and when/if they do, she either freaks out and gets hella clingy or she keeps serious distance for protection. Black women are looking for thier fathers in men who are looking for thier fathers...it is sad




this is an issue that has had a serious impact on our whole communities. we complain about not having tish together but if we don't KNOW what UNION is then how do we go about UNITY in the commUNITY?:'(



my heart goes out to all who have had to go through this and all who Feel Serious Regret for doing the irreversable..

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"The one whose faith is perfect is afflicted by the whisperer(shaytaan). The thief does not bother entering a ruined house."-(al-Jawahir al-Hisan)

>Black
>women are looking for thier
>fathers in men who are
>looking for thier fathers...it is
>sad

amen, sis



~~~SPITFIRE (NEW DATE): AUGUST 23, 2001~~~
carameldom@hotmail.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bmore-Okayplayers
(((oh yeah...do us a favor & vote here: http://www.geocities.com/bmorestreetwise/flyers.html)))

"cats pop champagne/over misery and pain/like slaves on the ship/talkin 'bout/who got the flyest chains" ~~Talib Kweli

"you can't fool me! I'm too stupid!" (c) a random warner bros. cartoon character

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

>>Black
>>women are looking for thier
>>fathers in men who are
>>looking for thier fathers...it is
>>sad
>
>amen, sis

Amen times two. That statement right there is comprised of few words but says soooooo much.

Black women have a motto "We Don't Give A Fuck" - Monique

((((( The Sig )))))
One year as a resident, deep in sentiment, they shout out GO BROOKLYN!! They representin it - Dante Smith (Brook doesn't do stage names).

I do this for the borough - me (eff that, Cam bit my steeze).

I'M A GIRL GOT DAMN !!! (now

I like that!

MAN, I TOATALY AGREE...... I AM ONE OF THOSE MEN WHO ARE LEARNING HOW NOT TO RUN...... AND THAT ISH IS HARD..... BUT IT IS OBTAINABLE

"Niggas mad cause Ibrags about the cash I got, but I'm used to not havin alot, I'm from the gutter and ohh..."-Jay-Z

"Expensive shoes worn, Loui Viton see-through gone, CoChes, my face is like a coupon..."Jay-Z

It
>is like EVERY DAY a
>young lady has to go
>home without her father at
>home, the LESS she feels
>like she will be able
>to TRUST ANYONE to commit
>to her in any way
>and when/if they do, she
>either freaks out and gets
>hella clingy or she keeps
>serious distance for protection. >

this is so true...my bestfriend was victim of this syndrome and almost missed out on a real man in the process......


*********************
7yr old nephew calls from cali....
him: Aunty can you teach me Spanish?
me: sure what do you want to know?
him: how do you say lightbulb
me: uh I don't know
him: (huffs and puffs) I thought you said you knew everything!
me: I never said that
him: well I want to visit you in Boston
me: do you have any money?
him: sure I do
me: how much?
him: Well I get $2 a week for allowance
me: you will need a little more than that at least $200.
him: no problem....i'll just go to grandma's house a few times....it's easy to get money from her!

I tried to call Ms. Cleo but she doesn't take Charge-It-To-da-game credit cards. I thought she was keeping it real for the young people?

But not every question My father was something else! He believed that my sister and I would be pregnant by 16. This is what he told us and neither of us have children yet (late 20's). However, ten years later he raised two more daughters from another woman and they both had babies before graduating from high school. Both dropped out.

See, my pops was present but he was a violent, cruel man, with major issues about women. All of his children were girls and I am sure that messed him up.

When I turned 16 I was determined to break the cycle of teen pregnancy but I had a playful attitude about sex. I made a bet in college. During my freshman year I made a bet with my roommate on who would lose their virginity first.

I was not abused by my father but he beat his women and his other daughters. I was the silent observer throughout my childhood and now I recognize all the tell-tale signs of abuse in men I meet. Also, I recognize signs in women that allow abuse.

The one thing I learned not to do was judge my father. I also learned not to depend on him for things that I needed to succeed in life. I discovered that I could love and take care of myself. The man for me is the one who does not try to replace my self-love. I don't have any holes to fill up and I already feel complete as a person. I want relationship(s) that affirm life, not tear it apart and I guess I have my father to thank for my general outlook (positive self-image, self-esteem, self-efficacy, etc.) on my life. I won't accept anything less.

>these questions come from a book
>entitled "What
>Happened to Daddy's Little Girl: The
>Impact of
>Fatherlessness on Black Women" by Jonetta
>Rose
>Barras...they're from a chapter entitled "Self
>
>Examination" and i thought they were
>good ones to
>ponder/meditate upon/ consider...
>
>...L...
>~ * ~ * ~ *
>~ * ~ * ~
>* ~ * ~ *
>~ * ~ * ~
>* ~ * ~ *
>~
>1) At what age did you
>have your first sexual
>experience?
>
>2) What was your chief motivation
>for entering that
>relationship, or those relationships?
>
>3) Do you distinguish sex from
>love, or are they the
>
>same thing to you?
>
>4) Did you ever consider having
>a child, although at
>the time you weren't married? If
>yes, how old were you
>
>and what motivated the desire?
>
>5) If you have children, what
>is your relationship
>with them- are they used to
>fill the empty space in
>
>your life; so they serve as
>a weapon for keeping your
>
>partner in line, etc. If you
>do not have children, so
>
>you still have a strong desire
>to have them; what is
>
>your motivation?
>
>6) How and why did you
>end your last relationship?
>
>7) How strongly do you respond
>to criticism from a
>mate? Even when the criticism is
>valid, do you
>sometimes find yourself worried about whether
>the
>comments mean he is about to
>break off the
>relationship?
>
>8) Do you prefer dating men
>who are married, have
>another girlfriend, or are intensely involed
>with
>their work?
>
>9) Do you sometimes find yourself
>in a good
>relationship but still feel uncomfortable about
>it?
>
>10) How often have you ended
>a relationship before the
>man whom you were dating, living
>with, or married to
>decided to end it?
>
>11) When you look at yourself
>in the mirror, what do
>
>you see? Are you comfortable or
>uncomfortable with
>your body image?
>
>12) How many times have you
>tried dieting or gaining
>weight over the last three years?
>
>
>13) Have you ever suffered bulimia,
>anorexia, or any
>other eating disorder?
>
>14) When you are hurt, angry,
>or lonely, do you
>frequently head for the refridgerator, for
>the stove,
>or for that bottle of wine?
>
>
>15) How often do you head
>for work, either in your
>
>house or at your office, when
>things are going badly
>in a relationship?
>
>16) Do you lash out at
>others for no apparent reason?
>
>
>17) Have you within the past
>five years been the first
>
>to attack, verbally or physically, your
>male partner?
>
>18) Do you sometimes become so
>angry with yourself
>that you deny yourself certain niceties?
>
>
>19) Do you sometimes spend days
>in bed when you are
>
>not physically ill, find yourself tired
>when you have
>exerted very little if any physical
>energy, realize
>you can't get yourself motivated?
>
>20) Have you ever thought that
>you would be better off
>
>dead, ever thought of commiting suicide,
>ever
>attempted suicide?
>
>21) Do you sometimes bend over
>backward in a
>relationship, attempting to please the other
>person,
>even if it means sacrificing your
>own pleasure and
>happiness?
>
>22) Do you invest more time
>in helping a man improve
>
>his life than you do in
>improving your own?
>
>23) Are you frequently overly conscious
>of how people
>perceive you?
>
>24) Do you feel that you
>never measure up to others?
>
>
>25) Do you believe everything you
>do has to be
>perfect?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"u cant see ahead w/ ur
>head down" - qua'ran tauheed
>{my baybee sister}


"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

Please name them.


>I recognize signs in women
>that allow abuse.
>

"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

>Please name them.

1) Low self-esteem and self-worth

Specifically, some the women my father abused were abused as children, i.e. by a parent (verbally, or physically). They had feelings of low self worth and a neediness or vulnerability that precipitated my father's violence. Instead of leaving or protecting themselves they choose to be hurt and hurt back whenever they could.

2) Equating a physically strong/attractive man with a good job with security, or power

My father was/is attractive, physically strong, has a steady job (same job for nearly 30 years) and makes good money. The women he abused saw all that first and his violent nature second. My father has some warped sense of tradition based on what he feels is a woman's place or lot in life. If a woman could not meet his standards he ridiculed them and asked them to leave the relationship and if they resisted he hurt them. Most of these women resisted because they liked the fact that he was a working man, a financially secure man. The fact that he was abusive was minor compared to the perception that his financial security meant they were secure. They weren't. This leads me to the next thing.

3) Feelings of being incomplete without a man

A few of my father's girlfriends had left other abusive relationships only to find another one with my father. No matter how successful the women were (one was a TV news anchor) they felt that they were not complete without a man. Men like my father took advantage of that.

Ironically, my father was very honest with me about his feelings. He loved the mothers of his children but he felt he could never be equal with my mother (college educated computer programmer) and he could not control the others. He wanted to be a good father and husband/lover but he was afraid so he appeared tough and mean to everyone. He was paraniod (he uses marijuana regularly) and felt that everyone was out to use him or get him. He told me stuff about how men and women are socialized to think and told me to think another way.

I don't know whether or not it was a subconscious or conscious effort on his part but I think he truly wanted me to be the opposite of the women he had relationships with. He never talked about my physical attributes, he listened/gave useful feedback about the men I was seeing and he always told me how proud he was of my accomplishments.

If my father ever threatened me I learned to show no fear. I learned to keep my head up and stand on my own two feet. I was the only one of his four daughters that was never abused but I also let it be known that I would fight to my death. I observed and absorbed everything, including the violence. I was child and learned to stay quiet and lay low when there was danger.

I learned to smile when men try to minimize my accomplishments and realize when men tried to influence me in negative ways. If a man was ever forceful with me he would see the back of my head as I walked away. This is what my father taught me.

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

What I wrote was based on observing my father and his relationships with women. Not every women who is with a financially secure man or feels that they are incomplete without a man are in abusive relationships. But combine these things with a few others and I feel it's a formula for abuse.

Note: My father often rejected me or refused to support me when I wanted to do something he did not agree with, especially when I decided to leave my hometown. However, he was there (a negative and positive presence) when I was a child. As a adult, he contacts me every few years and sometimes we meet up some place.

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

are the Ultimate Survivor.




"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

I had lots of help. I found myself a therapist when I was 12 years old (of course my father had nothing to do with that) and I had mentors in my teens. The most important mentor was a man and he was the positive, supportive father-figure I needed to become well-adjusted.

The most important thing for fatherless girls is positive relationships with men. Some never get a chance to benefit from that. Fortunately, I was able to get involved with men who were not like my father. If anything, I bounce back from adversity. I am resilient but I chose my path and I feel at peace.

>are the Ultimate Survivor.
>
>
>
>
>"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the
>GAME," Granddad Freeman of the
>Boondocks(7-11-99)
>
>*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic
>singles" — they prefer to
>achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)
>
>*If U have won a Grammy,
>one of two things are
>at play: 1. Your shit
>is TIGHT
>
>
>
> 2.
>U are white
>-(Me)
>
>"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace'
>that means U not a
>freak?"-The Questions(c) Common


"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

2 me. Please tell us more. I am learning so much from what U R posting here b/c my father was certainly no prize, but I guess he wasn't the WORST father in the world either(or at least that's what my mother tells me). I have had a LifeLong battle w/ reconciling my feelings about him and the way he treated my mother, the way he behaved in general, and most importantly, the way he treated me. So I tend 2 attract men who have his best qualities, but some have his worst qualities 2, which R TOTALLY unacceptable 2 me. I have not been able 2 run away nor escape that, although I've employed a myriad of methods in attempt 2 do so. U seem 2 have found that "way out", which intrigues me. Even though U were not directly abused, being witness 2 it was psychological abuse, "I" say. So, U were subjected 2, and affected by it 2. But U freed Urself from it. There has 2 be more 2 Ur liberation than what U have stated. I for one would appreciate it if U could elaborate further. U R being quite informative/instructive.

peace.


I was
>able to get involved with
>men who were not like
>my father. If anything,
>I bounce back from adversity.
> I am resilient but
>I chose my path and
>I feel at peace.
>
>>are the Ultimate Survivor.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the
>>GAME," Granddad Freeman of the
>>Boondocks(7-11-99)
>>
>>*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic
>>singles" — they prefer to
>>achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)
>>
>>*If U have won a Grammy,
>>one of two things are
>>at play: 1. Your shit
>>is TIGHT
>>
>>
>>
>> 2.
>>U are white
>>-(Me)
>>
>>"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace'
>>that means U not a
>>freak?"-The Questions(c) Common
>
>
>"Know thyself"
>
>"Let your conduct be without covetousness;
>be content with such things
>as you have. For
>He Himself has said, "I
>will never leave you or
>forsake you". So we may
>boldly say, "The Lord is
>my helper, I will not
>fear. What can man
>do to me?"
>-- Hebrews 13:5,6
>
>"There is a difference between knowing
>the path and walking the
>path"
>--Morpheus in "The Matrix"
>
>"It's our choices, Harry, that show
>what we truly are, far
>more than our abilities"- Dumbledore
>to Harry Potter "Chamber of
>Secrets"


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

>Even
>though U were not directly
>abused, being witness 2 it
>was psychological abuse, "I" say.
>So, U were subjected 2,
>and affected by it 2.
>But U freed Urself from
>it. There has 2 be
>more 2 Ur liberation than
>what U have stated. I
>for one would appreciate it
>if U could elaborate further.
>U R being quite informative/instructive.

A lot of what I experienced was as a young girl. I felt helpless for years and then I turned 12. Puberty is so traumatic for young people, especially for girls around 12. Combine puberty with abandonment or abuse and it's formula for a broken spirit.

I was raised by my mother, an independent, successful but mentally unstable force in my life. My mother wanted us to know our father-- the bad and the good. So, I started spending summers with him when I was 10 years old. Two months was enough to absorb enough violence and verbal abuse for many years.

When I was 12, I realized I was severely depressed and suicidal. In order to save my life I decided to make a move towards healing. I picked up the telephone yellow pages and called the first child psychiatrist I pointed to. I made up some lie to her and my mother and set up an appointment. The psychiatrist met me and referred me to a child clinic. The rest was a turning point in my life.

See, at 12 I was a young girl and I was sleep walking. I was not abused but I was observing and directly experiencing violence and all kinds of madness from my father and the women in his life/my life. I went to school and I walked with my head down, my back curved low. I sat in corners and tried to be invisible to hide my pain & confusion. Therapists helped me wake up. I learned to walk with my head up and back straight. Part of my early sessions was to actually walk up and down the hallway with my head up and back straight! I found my art and my talents. I discovered that I was a joyful, bright, and gifted girl.

I stopped going to therapy a year before I graduated from high school. The therapist ended the sessions because I no longer need help reframing my life. By senior year, I had blossomed and was ready to take on the world. I left my hometown and went to the college and city of my dreams (NYC). I did it all myself because I learned I could do it on my own, without my father.

In retrospect, I was trying to get out of depression at 12. Now, I realize I was subconsciously aware of my faith and ability to bounce back and save myself. My spirit, once a bright flame, was very low and I was almost in the dark for good. My attempt to help myself was successful. I found positive relationships with men who mentored me. I replaced the bad relationships with good ones and, most important, I found the best relationship with my self/loved myself.

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

I feel like we've been through some similar experiences. I'm amazed that you were able to save yourself at such a young age. I'm a male, and my father was there. I think he was/is a relatively good father, because he was much more involved in my life than most of my friends' fathers appeared to be; but he had one major fault: the abuse of my mother. Sometimes I think I would trade everything that made him a good father in exchange for him being a good husband to my mother. You struck a chord in me when you mentioned how you were "asleep" at 12 and how you walked with your head down and shoulders slumped. I was asleep too, but because of my family's reputation in my small hometown, I walked with my head up and stood tall...even though I was a mess inside.

I won't get into my life story too much, but I will say that I was 20 (26 now) and married before I even began to address this issue with myself. So, I'm very proud of and inspired by what you did at the age of 12.

___________________________________________________________

"It's just a song." (c)Goodie Mob

"Once you've won the rat race, will you still be a rat?" (c) Me

"Don't go losing your today hiding your soul in your solitude." (c) Zap Mama

"Life's a b***h, then you die; but for now, Life, close your eyes and feel this d**k." - Jay-Z

"I think we may be integrating into a burning house...We'll have to become the firemen." - Martin Luther King, Jr. (speaking to Harry Belafonte)

Aiight...I'm so GLAD this issue was brought to light...It seems like me and my 2 boys is the only one that notices this...

So here's my opinion...
Next to drugs, abusive black fathers/absent black fathers are the strongest roadblock to our success as a people...
No sense of protection for our communities...
this CAN be further worsened by divorce...

I thought as a teen there was nothing more sad to watch, than to see a girl, go through bad relationship after bad relationship, NEVER FIGURING OUT WHY, saying that all men are DOGS, not understanding that you get WHAT YOU PICK...

Until I had seen what type of BITTER or LONELY women those type become if they don't have a moment of clarity at some point in their lives.

No lie, I came in contact with this BEAUTIFUL single older woman who, in a conversation on the difference between GIRLS and WOMEN,
broke it down for the bruthas in the ability to use their "power" to get whateva they wanted from a man without sex...She then gives mad examples of her experience with this...
And after about 4-5 minutes of telling us we're sheep, she confesses to this guy she dated somewhere like 8 years ago who took her out to eat WHENEVA, acted like a PERFECT gentleman in her presence and treated her like a queen...She then says "He was the one I NEVER should have let get away...If I weren't soooo stupid and young"....

Woman. Wasn't this like 8 years ago.....

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

...

Why would God have given you in life a questioning mind if not to hand to you in death the blinding answers!!!

AIM Carmel3494 say ure okp

:o

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"The one whose faith is perfect is afflicted by the whisperer(shaytaan). The thief does not bother entering a ruined house."-(al-Jawahir al-Hisan)

at least a couple of posts above show that simply having a "father" is not the answer to why good women go bad part III...

______

"you came and opened me, now there's so much more i see"
stevie wonder verse / that's what friends are for

"...sell crazy somewhere else, lady. we're all stocked up here."
jack nicholson line / as good as it gets

"it took a while to get me here and i'm gonna take my time"
gwen stefani / eve's -let me blow ya mind-

It's not ENOUGH 2 have a father AROUND. What is the Brothah doing during the time that he IS AROUND is what's key. My single parent household friends are all psychologically damaged b/c they had no father around. I always tell them, "Having a father in the home is a HIGHLY overrated experience". I'm psychologically damaged from HAVING my father around. This fatherhood thing is something Brothahs are just going 2 have 2 figure out on their own. It's crucial, and Sistahs don't know how 2 teach Brothahs how 2 be good at it, b/c we are not men. Motherhood is hard enough 2 get down-pat by itself! I just pray that Brothahs figure it out, 4 ALL of our sakes!



>>at least a couple of posts
>above show that simply having
>a "father" is not the
>answer to why good women
>go bad part III...
>
>______
>
>"you came and opened me, now
>there's so much more i
>see"
>stevie wonder verse / that's what
>friends are for
>
>"...sell crazy somewhere else, lady. we're
>all stocked up here."
>jack nicholson line / as good
>as it gets
>
>"it took a while to get
>me here and i'm gonna
>take my time"
>gwen stefani / eve's -let me
>blow ya mind-


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

It is my view that you don't call a man a "FATHER" unless he acts like one. got it? good . I think it was expressed in the posts above the type of example that was needed with the father which was a positive one. I am agree that if a man is going to be a jerk or tyrant, he has no right to steal another beings happiness, especially not the happiness of his mate and child(ren)


peace

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"The one whose faith is perfect is afflicted by the whisperer(shaytaan). The thief does not bother entering a ruined house."-(al-Jawahir al-Hisan)

just to say that while some women are reading "fatherlessness and black women:..." others are reading "abusive fathers and black women:..." and answering the same questions.

______

"you came and opened me, now there's so much more i see"
stevie wonder verse / that's what friends are for

"...sell crazy somewhere else, lady. we're all stocked up here."
jack nicholson line / as good as it gets

"it took a while to get me here and i'm gonna take my time"
gwen stefani / eve's -let me blow ya mind-

An abusive father is one GLARING example of fatherlessness. If a man is abusing you or your mother, he most certainly cannot be a positive father figure at the same TIME, no? I don't think it was read wrong. People were merely giving their OWN examples of experiencing "fatherlessness".

No abusive man(verbally, emotionally, or physically) is going to feel like much of a father, even when he really is your father.

peace.


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

well, my father was in the home until i was a senior in high school.....my parents seperated and then divorced....but my father was in the home, but not actually there.....the relationship between my parents was internecine, mutually destructive......my mother was dominant and selfish.....my father passive and weak......he failed as my protector, from my mothers destructive anger and the sexual abuse afflicted on myself, my brother, and my two cousins by his brother.....when the wrath of my mother's anger came down on me, he stood and watched in silence....when i named his brother as my abuser, he stood in silence again, not believing a word i said, instead he believed his brother, when he said he didn't do it.....and believed his daughter, the seed formed from his own loins to be a liar....matter fact he still has a relationship with his brother to this day....so i grew up believing that men were weak and that they don't protect you.....i still have trouble putting my trust in a man, because of the fear that they won't protect me....that they will stand in silence and watch another ravage my vulnerabilty or ravage it themselves.....to be honest, i will probably not have a relationship with a man beyond friendship.....the thought of trusting a man with my vulnerability till death do us part, scares me to death....because in a marriage the wife must be subject to her husband.....i have to submit my vulnerability to my husband and pray that he will protect it with his own life.....and that's not a chance i am willing to take.....i have learned to protect my own vulnerability and to find strength in it.....i look to know one else.......

peace in love,
philia

It's truly a shame a LOT of women I have had the blessing of coming in contact with had to learn your lesson...My VERY own sister might have learned this same (fill in the blank: truth/theory/facade/untruth)...My father once disbelieved her accusing her of being a wayward (Read: DRUGS & SEX)daughter...SOMETHING SO FAR FROM TRUTH...

And yes...A weak man CAN NOT BE A PROTECTOR OF A SURVIVOR (<--I hope) such as your likes...However, to give up on the structure of FAMILY (TWO OPPOSITE SEX PARENTAL FIGURES TO GUIDE THE CHILDREN), whether married or not...

It WILL lead to disappointment...

TRUST...
Though you MAY NOT be able to appreciate it now through what you see/have seen...YOU AS A WOMAN NEED A GOOD "STRONG"(<--By the way, what's your definition? Just Curious...) MAN TO GROW INTO OLD AGE WITH....MOST ESPECIALLY TO RAISE HEALTHY CHILDREN WITH....OVERSTAND THAT NO WOMAN CAN RAISE A BOY INTO A MAN. I KNOW THIS FROM A FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE BEING THE SON OF A SINGLE MOTHER WHO TRIED TO RAISE ME TO AVOID PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION AT ALL COSTS...(didn't work also).......Plus, there are just things a boy can NOT discuss with a woman for guidance and understanding...Plus....

The world is tough without us...You'd be SURPRISED at all the little things our strength can accomplish. Even when you break it down to the point of moving heavy objects around the apartment/house, a man, in the most basic sense, is a utility no woman can/should be without...

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

without responsibility, honesty and sense of self (maturity)?

>TRUST...
>Though you MAY NOT be able
>to appreciate it now through
>what you see/have seen...YOU AS
>A WOMAN NEED A GOOD
>"STRONG"(<--By the way, what's your
>definition? Just Curious...) MAN TO
>GROW INTO OLD AGE WITH....MOST
>ESPECIALLY TO RAISE HEALTHY CHILDREN
>WITH....

My father was physically strong and financially stable BUT he was a very negative influence on his daughters.

OVERSTAND THAT NO WOMAN CAN
>RAISE A BOY INTO A
>MAN. I KNOW THIS
>FROM A FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE
>BEING THE SON OF A
>SINGLE MOTHER WHO TRIED TO
>RAISE ME TO AVOID PHYSICAL
>CONFRONTATION AT ALL COSTS...(didn't work
>also).......Plus, there are just things
>a boy can NOT discuss
>with a woman for guidance
>and understanding...Plus....

I mentored a young man for 2 years (from age 16-18). He did not have a male he could talk to but he had his male peers and that helped him grow. The lack of a stable/strong father figure did not prove to be an obstacle for his personal development. The one thing I noticed was how open Q was with me...about everything. When he got a girl pregnant, was suspended from school for carrying a knife and when he was falsely arrested he called me. I listened to him and sometimes I would meet with Q and his male peers to talk about issues relating to being a man relating to women.

I am certain that my guidance helped Q become a more mature man but we all worked as a team to help him-- mother, step-father, friends, other young men, other female/male mentors. That's real youth development.

>The world is tough without us...You'd
>be SURPRISED at all the
>little things our strength can
>accomplish. Even when you
>break it down to the
>point of moving heavy objects
>around the apartment/house, a man,
>in the most basic sense,
>is a utility no woman
>can/should be without...

I can pay someone to move heavy objects or I can do it myself and/or ask for help from my friends (male or female). What I can't pay for is a man who will be more than a role defined by a society that places value on things that does not support me. I need more than that to be in a real relationship. I am already a whole person. I need another whole person (man) to be there for me. He can lift heavy things, too (if he wants).


"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

THE QUESTION WAS,

"WHAT IS STRENGTH,"

>without responsibility, honesty and sense of
>self (maturity)?

Sense of the environment which MAY be used for/against your personal gain....Basically, awareness of one's surroundings....

>
>>TRUST...
>>Though you MAY NOT be able
>>to appreciate it now through
>>what you see/have seen...YOU AS
>>A WOMAN NEED A GOOD
>>"STRONG"(<--By the way, what's your
>>definition? Just Curious...) MAN TO
>>GROW INTO OLD AGE WITH....MOST
>>ESPECIALLY TO RAISE HEALTHY CHILDREN
>>WITH....
>

>My father was physically strong and
>financially stable BUT he was
>a very negative influence on
>his daughters.
>
>OVERSTAND THAT NO WOMAN CAN
>>RAISE A BOY INTO A
>>MAN. I KNOW THIS
>>FROM A FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE
>>BEING THE SON OF A
>>SINGLE MOTHER WHO TRIED TO
>>RAISE ME TO AVOID PHYSICAL
>>CONFRONTATION AT ALL COSTS...(didn't work
>>also).......Plus, there are just things
>>a boy can NOT discuss
>>with a woman for guidance
>>and understanding...Plus....
>

You replied...

>I mentored a young man for
>2 years (from age 16-18).
> He did not have
>a male he could talk
>to but he had his
>male peers and that helped
>him grow. The lack
>of a stable/strong father figure
>did not prove to be
>an obstacle for his personal
>development. The one thing
>I noticed was how open
>Q was with me...about everything.
> When he got a
>girl pregnant, was suspended from
>school for carrying a knife
>and when he was falsely
>arrested he called me.
>I listened to him and
>sometimes I would meet with
>Q and his male peers
>to talk about issues relating
>to being a man relating
>to women.
>
>I am certain that my guidance
>helped Q become a more
>mature man but we all
>worked as a team to
>help him-- mother, step-father, friends,
>other young men, other female/male
>mentors. That's real youth
>development.

This is REAL youth development and the funny thing is that's how it should be within a SANE COMMUNITY for EACH and EVERY CHILD...
Only within the confines of a SAFE and SANE community...Anyhoo..

While I am sure your counsel on male/female relations was appreciated by the young brutha it's my opinion that the greatest advising brutha Q could've achieved in those relations (if a healthy, SOMEWHAT developed one...) is that with the step-father...Hopefully he could FULLY appreciate the role he was filling...I say this not to undermine your advice but altogether it will be easier for the brutha to realize his position in america and how to conduct himself....This is something that only a MAN OF COLOR could notice from a FIRST PERSON view...No offense...but who could explin the triumphs and pitfalls, joys and pains of black women better...Talib Kweli or Ursula Rucker???


>>The world is tough without us...You'd
>>be SURPRISED at all the
>>little things our strength can
>>accomplish. Even when you
>>break it down to the
>>point of moving heavy objects
>>around the apartment/house, a man,
>>in the most basic sense,
>>is a utility no woman
>>can/should be without...
>
>I can pay someone to move
>heavy objects or I can
>do it myself and/or ask
>for help from my friends
>(male or female). What
>I can't pay for is
>a man who will be
>more than a role defined
>by a society that places
>value on things that does
>not support me. I
>need more than that to
>be in a real relationship.

Unclear. I'm a simple man...Please explain further on what you mean by "What I can't pay for is a man who will be more than a role defined by a society that places value on things that does
not support me. I need more than that to be in a real relationship. I am already a whole person. I need another whole person (man) to be there for me. He can lift heavy things, too (if he wants)."

YOU ARE A WHOLE PERSON, eh? Do you cook couscous as well????

>
>"Know thyself"
>
>"There is a difference between knowing
>the path and walking the
>path"
>--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

>While I am sure your counsel
>on male/female relations was appreciated
>by the young brutha it's
>my opinion that the greatest
>advising brutha Q could've achieved
>in those relations (if a
>healthy, SOMEWHAT developed one...) is
>that with the step-father...

An excerpt from Q:

"Your like a big sister to me, and your the only adult that I open myself to. I think you know me better that my mother. I also realy appreciate you listening to me, every time I finish talking to you,you always have me thinking about everything you say. I'm glad that your always there for me when I need to talk to somebody..."

It is not my point to undermine the importance of positive relationships with men, i.e. fathers. As a matter of fact, I strongly believe that the mentor/friend relationship I had with Q influenced his ability to trust women. He also was great when working with children and I made sure to tell him that this was a good quality that would help him when he started his own family.

The most important thing for men is to learn how to trust themselves and trust women in order to have healthy relationships. Men, as fathers, have to be PRESENT and that means they can't close themselves off or not be open with women.

When a father/male mentor is not present then it is difficult for women to develop positive relationships with men. It is a challenge for them to raise their sons to become "strong" men. It's a cycle and fathers and mothers need to break the cycle in order to build strong families and children (daughters).

>it will be
>easier for the brutha to
>realize his position in america
>and how to conduct himself....This
>is something that only a
>MAN OF COLOR could notice
>from a FIRST PERSON view...No
>offense...but who could explin the
>triumphs and pitfalls, joys and
>pains of black women better...Talib
>Kweli or Ursula Rucker???

Neither. I was able to understand myself (as a child), in relation to the world through guidance from my father, mother and, when they were not available, through other adults. I understood myself as Nettrice first, then as a girl/woman, a Black person, an American and a human. The development of the individual (Nettrice) part of who I am allowed me to define the other parts.

>Unclear. I'm a simple man...Please
>explain further on what you
>mean by "What I can't
>pay for is a man
>who will be more than
>a role defined by a
>society that places value on
>things that does
>not support me. I need
>more than that to be
>in a real relationship.
>I am already a whole
>person. I need another
>whole person (man) to be
>there for me. He
>can lift heavy things, too
>(if he wants)."

>YOU ARE A WHOLE PERSON, eh?
> Do you cook couscous
>as well????

I mean that I have not met a man who is not saddled by the role society has defined instead of defining who he is as an individual. I need a spiritual partner, someone who can match my quick wit, lust for life and quest for peace & love. I can do my own lifting and cooking becuase I have the resources. I need someone who can sustain a partnership and how we divvy-up responsibilities is up to us, not some standard.

Standards are what makes some men unable to be the fathers they should be. Some men feel as if they will never meet them. They are playing some role and not open to the needs of their children and women/mates.


"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

>And yes...A weak man CAN NOT
>BE A PROTECTOR OF A
>SURVIVOR (<--I hope) such as
>your likes...However, to give up
>on the structure of FAMILY
>(TWO OPPOSITE SEX PARENTAL FIGURES
>TO GUIDE THE CHILDREN), whether
>married or not...

i have not given up on the structure of family.....i believe that two whole and spiritually healthy adults can raise children....

>It will lead to disappointment.....

inept and spiritually broken parents lead to disappointment also...

>TRUST...
>Though you MAY NOT be able
>to appreciate it now through
>what you see/have seen...YOU AS
>A WOMAN NEED A GOOD
>"STRONG"(<--By the way, what's your
>definition? Just Curious...) MAN TO
>GROW INTO OLD AGE WITH....MOST
>ESPECIALLY TO RAISE HEALTHY CHILDREN
>WITH....OVERSTAND THAT NO WOMAN CAN
>RAISE A BOY INTO A
>MAN. I KNOW THIS
>FROM A FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE
>BEING THE SON OF A
>SINGLE MOTHER WHO TRIED TO
>RAISE ME TO AVOID PHYSICAL
>CONFRONTATION AT ALL COSTS...(didn't work
>also).......Plus, there are just things
>a boy can NOT discuss
>with a woman for guidance
>and understanding...Plus....

please, do not presume that you know what i need.....i don't need a man to save me from my abusive past or be my knight in shining armor.....i won't raise children, without a husband.....and i understand that i may never find a man to build a family with.....therefore, i am content with being single, without children......

>The world is tough without us...You'd
>be SURPRISED at all the
>little things our strength can
>accomplish. Even when you
>break it down to the
>point of moving heavy objects
>around the apartment/house, a man,
>in the most basic sense,
>is a utility no woman
>can/should be without...

physical strength...is that why i should trust a man with my vulnerability for life, because he can move my frickin' furniture.....surely you jest....and believe you me and can be without it......you underestimate my strength......

peace in love,
philia

>And yes...A weak man CAN NOT
>BE A PROTECTOR OF A
>SURVIVOR (<--I hope) such as
>your likes...However, to give up
>on the structure of FAMILY
>(TWO OPPOSITE SEX PARENTAL FIGURES
>TO GUIDE THE CHILDREN), whether
>married or not...
>
>It WILL lead to disappointment...
>
>TRUST...
>Though you MAY NOT be able
>to appreciate it now through
>what you see/have seen...YOU AS
>A WOMAN NEED A GOOD
>"STRONG"(<--By the way, what's your
>definition? Just Curious...) MAN TO
>GROW INTO OLD AGE WITH....MOST
>ESPECIALLY TO RAISE HEALTHY CHILDREN
>WITH....OVERSTAND THAT NO WOMAN CAN
>RAISE A BOY INTO A
>MAN. I KNOW THIS
>FROM A FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE
>BEING THE SON OF A
>SINGLE MOTHER WHO TRIED TO
>RAISE ME TO AVOID PHYSICAL
>CONFRONTATION AT ALL COSTS...(didn't work
>also).......Plus, there are just things
>a boy can NOT discuss
>with a woman for guidance
>and understanding...Plus....
>
>The world is tough without us...You'd
>be SURPRISED at all the
>little things our strength can
>accomplish. Even when you
>break it down to the
>point of moving heavy objects
>around the apartment/house, a man,
>in the most basic sense,
>is a utility no woman
>can/should be without...

>i have not given up on
>the structure of family.....i believe
>that two whole and spiritually
>healthy adults can raise children....

This is Good.

>inept and spiritually broken parents lead
>to disappointment also...

Oh no doubt.

>please, do not presume that you
>know what i need.....i don't
>need a man to save
>me from my abusive past
>or be my knight in
>shining armor.....i won't raise children,
>without a husband.....and i understand
>that i may never find
>a man to build a
>family with.....therefore, i am content
>with being single, without children......

Please don't presume YOU'LL know what you need 10-20 years from now....Not saying that you can't PLAN ahead for the next 10 years. But as a biological species, SURVIVORS ADAPT TO THEIR SITUATION.

>physical strength...is that why i should
>trust a man with my
>vulnerability for life, because he
>can move my frickin' furniture.....surely
>you jest....and believe you me
>and can be without it......you
>underestimate my strength......

Once again the answer to this depends on what YOU define as STRENGTH, and your comments imply that you meant in a physical sense, or you just read me wrong.

I define strength as PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL/SPIRITUAL, and MENTAL stability.

Sure athleticism is NICE, but each one has their own gifts.
Not everyone can be James Evans, just as not every one can be Heathcliffe Huxtable.

>peace in love,
>philia

Peace and love (or is it love?)

Solitayre

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
June sig on the way.

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

It is quite possible to be a strong, Black woman, raise your own children, and have male role models in your children's life who are not necessarily your King. While the ultimate situation would be to have two WHOLE parents raising the children, sometimes that is not possible. For me personally, I plan to adopt, with, or without a Husband. A "strong, good" Man ENHANCES a family situation, but a family situation could still be loving and functional w/o a full-time father presence. It is just important to make sure that the children are provided positive male role models outside the home in those scenarioes.


>>a man,
>in the most basic sense,
>is a utility no woman
>can be without...


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

Black men, for some time now haven't (as a collective) been able to step up to the plate when it comes to the protection of black women and children. It is quite sad.

There are too many black folks in this world who have never known their fathers (myself included). This tradition is Inarguably one of the problems in the community that has breeded even more problems (single parent households, black on black violence, poverty, the use/distribution of drugs, etc). The question becomes: What can really be done? Shyt...disrespecting black women has become such a favorite past-time for black men that a war of the sexes may be coming next. Lawd help us!!!

"We live the now for the promise of the infinite" --Mos Def

"I'm tryin' to soar to altitudes unknown to man, woman or the most agile of birds" --yours truly

"your people first. a quiet strength. the positioning of oneself so that observation becomes reaction, where study is preferred to night life, where emotion is not seen as a weakness. love for self, family, children and extensions of self is beyond the verbal"
--Haki R. Madhubuti

I think you are right. But a large part of that comes from men's original insult at the way their mothers did not pay enough attention to them for whatever reasons, which translates into adult mysogyny, OR experiencing a broken-heart early in life which chafes them for life, and causes them to lack respect for ALL women just because ONE woman supposedly "done them wrong". That is THEIR problem though, and THEY have to solve it. Black women can't do that FOR them. We can only facilitate, and be supportive. That is what Iyanla Vanzant's Spirit of a Man is all about.

Isn't it funny though, that when women get broken-hearted, and then are very guarded in dealing w/ future men, she is accused of being bitter, but when men do the same thing in the form of "hittin' it and leaving" or copping a "women ain't shit" attitude, THEY are just being "hard", or men. There is something INHERENTLY WRONG with the cultural acceptance of that which exists at this time.


>>disrespecting
>black women has become such
>a favorite past-time for black
>men that a war of
>the sexes may be coming
>next. Lawd help us!!!
>
>"We live the now for the
>promise of the infinite" --Mos
>Def
>
>"I'm tryin' to soar to altitudes
>unknown to man, woman or
>the most agile of birds"
>--yours truly
>
>"your people first. a quiet strength.
>the positioning of oneself so
>that observation becomes reaction, where
>study is preferred to night
>life, where emotion is not
>seen as a weakness. love
>for self, family, children and
>extensions of self is beyond
>the verbal"
>--Haki R. Madhubuti


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

>Black men, for some time now
>haven't (as a collective) been
>able to step up to
>the plate when it comes
>to the protection of black
>women and children. It is
>quite sad.

Bullshit.
I know PLENTY of men BREAKING THEIR BACKS TO HANDLE THEIRS...
You too stuck in the past darlin' look around you...
Mad bus drivers and custodians are taking INSULTS to put FOOD in they children's mouths and CLOTHES on they backs, EVEN IF that's all they can afford to do.

FURTHERMORE,
WHY BLACK MEN (AS A COLLECTIVE) HAVE TO ANSWER FOR THE ACTIONS OF OTHERS....WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE THE BORG?

I can only HOPE you find that BLACK MEN are just as DIVERSE as BLACK WOMEN...That's one of the reasons a lotta chicks get they hearts bruk up by fake thugs, but lemme chill...

>There are too many black folks
>in this world who have
>never known their fathers (myself
>included). This tradition is Inarguably
>one of the problems in
>the community that has breeded
>even more problems (single parent
>households, black on black violence,
>poverty, the use/distribution of drugs,
>etc). The question becomes: What
>can really be done? Shyt...disrespecting
>black women has become such
>a favorite past-time for black
>men that a war of
>the sexes may be coming
>next. Lawd help us!!!

You see, this problem is multi faceted...Death, Incarceration, Irresponsibility, Infidelity to the WIFE/FAMILY, and MOST IMPORTANTLY...
IMMATURE SEXUAL ACTS, IMMATURE PIX FOR FATHERS & PROMISCUITY(<<<<How come females NEVER discuss this OPENLY...Ya'll wanna pull cards? Watch one of those Maury Povich, "WHO'S THE DADDY" episodes some day and tell me about the lack of fatherhood, when a bunch of the shit is just LACK OF WOMANHOOD! And YES that type shit goes down.)


But what really ASTONISHED me is YOU GOT FELT!

I think you are right. But
>a large part of that
>comes from men's original insult
>at the way their mothers
>did not pay enough attention
>to them for whatever reasons,
>which translates into adult mysogyny,
>OR experiencing a broken-heart early
>in life which chafes them
>for life,

^^^^^Excellent point. I'll give you a first person counter point on that last one.

and causes them
>to lack respect for ALL
>women just because ONE woman
>supposedly "done them wrong". That
>is THEIR problem though, and
>THEY have to solve it.

PRETTY MUCH.

>Black women can't do that
>FOR them. We can only
>facilitate, and be supportive. That
>is what Iyanla Vanzant's Spirit
>of a Man is all
>about.

What you said is TRUE...If ya heart gets all bruk up real young it can take away your CONFIDENCE in your MANHOOD...However, most men, LIKE THEIR FEMALE COUNTERPARTS, utilize survival skills...And come to whatever conclusions thy will based on what women and relatioships they have chosen to PAY ATTETION to.

A funny thing, I also noticed is you didn't mention another VERY IMPORTANT rean for the "women ain't shit" mentality...

Little boys whose mothers are straight up HOES...It's funny how ya'll NEVER discuss how PROMISCUITY can DEVASTATE children...Do ya'll feel that that topic is LIMITED to HOE MOMMAS??? There are HOE DADDIES in the world.

But ya'll know this already...
Yeah, ya'll know, you just don't wanna face up to it like that...


>Isn't it funny though, that when
>women get broken-hearted, and then
>are very guarded in dealing
>w/ future men, she is
>accused of being bitter, but
>when men do the same
>thing in the form of
>"hittin' it and leaving" or
>copping a "women ain't shit"
>attitude, THEY are just being
>"hard", or men. There is
>something INHERENTLY WRONG with the
>cultural acceptance of that which
>exists at this time.


Well first off, I don't think that you wanna bring up that whole,
"hittin it and quitting" routine in this discussion, cuz NOT ONLY
do most of these SILLY young girls DIG that type of SHIT(WHAT A PARADOX!), but a couple of the people in this forum that are responding to this post got here as a result of some SILLY cluck who thought they could lock down some HOE ass man by havin his kid.

AIN'T NOTHIN' COMING OUT OF OR GOIN' BETWEEN THOSE THIGHS GONNA KEEP A MAN IF HE CAN'T OR DOESN'T FIRST RESPECT, ADMIRE AND HONESTLY LOVE A WOMAN.

But fatherlessness is TOTALLY a man's fault...Uhhmmm...I also notice we didn't mention chicks who USE they kids and the law to push away a man they hate...Forcing suffering on the man who TRULY LOVES they children.

Ya'll wanna talk. I'm saying...Let's talk about it!!!

>>"We live the now for the
>>promise of the infinite" --Mos
>>Def

If'n that's true I suggest you tell some women to evaluate the
potential fathers of their children with more LOGICAL merit than EMOTIONAL...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
June sig on the way.

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

that this post was directed at me, but I understand what you did now. You freed 2 doves w/ one key. Okay. Well let me go down and respond:

>>Black men, for some time now
>>haven't (as a collective) been
>>able to step up to
>>the plate when it comes
>>to the protection of black
>>women and children. It is
>>quite sad.
>
>Bullshit.
>I know PLENTY of men BREAKING
>THEIR BACKS TO HANDLE THEIRS...


My brother is like that. He works 16 hours a day as a steelworker, which he HATES, to send his child to private school, so she can go to yale or harvard when she graduates high school. PLUS, he paid my bills and sent me money the whole time I was in professional school. So BELIEVE that there are good Black men out there. This, I do know.

>>I can only HOPE you find
>that BLACK MEN are just
>as DIVERSE as BLACK WOMEN...That's
>one of the reasons a
>lotta chicks get they hearts
>bruk up by fake thugs,
>but lemme chill...

I hope this too, for ALL Sistahs. Good Black men are hard to find though. Once a Sistah, or white women, or whomever finds one, she's not stupid. She's gonna hang on to him, 'cuz they are far and few between. I can't attest to the thug thing though, because I am not attracted to men like that in real life(I DO think Treach is fine from NaughtyByNature though )
>>IMMATURE SEXUAL ACTS, IMMATURE PIX FOR
>FATHERS & PROMISCUITY(<<<<How come females
>NEVER discuss this OPENLY...Ya'll wanna
>pull cards? Watch one
>of those Maury Povich, "WHO'S
>THE DADDY" episodes some day
>and tell me about the
>lack of fatherhood, when a
>bunch of the shit is
>just LACK OF WOMANHOOD!
>And YES that type shit
>goes down.)

Yes, we can discuss this. Disjointed families do indeed result from women making poor choices in the men that they sleep with, or accepting whomever comes "smellin' around her", as my grandmother would say. That definitely speaks to a lack of womanhood, a lack of self-respect, and a fear of being alone. We've all been there. There is no shame in acknowledging this. BUT, the question comes for me in those low moments, "Am I going to allow myself to make a decision from this Space, which might degrade me, and which I might REGRET and feel ASHAMED about later?" THAT is what stops me. For those who lack that Inner Voice, or fail to listen to it, God help them. But once the children are here or whatever, I've seen "many a ho" take care of her children, BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. So in those cases, it might not be the best thing that her children were born in the context of her being a "ho", but she's handlin' hers NOW, and deserves RESPECT for that.

>>But what really ASTONISHED me is
>YOU GOT FELT!

What do you mean by this statement, exactly?


>>I think you are right. But
>
>>a large part of that
>>comes from men's original insult
>>at the way their mothers
>>did not pay enough attention
>>to them for whatever reasons,
>>which translates into adult mysogyny,
>>OR experiencing a broken-heart early
>>in life which chafes them
>>for life,
>
>^^^^^Excellent point. I'll give you
>a first person counter point
>on that last one.
>
> and causes them
>>to lack respect for ALL
>>women just because ONE woman
>>supposedly "done them wrong". That
>>is THEIR problem though, and
>>THEY have to solve it.
>
>PRETTY MUCH.
>
>>Black women can't do that
>>FOR them. We can only
>>facilitate, and be supportive. That
>>is what Iyanla Vanzant's Spirit
>>of a Man is all
>>about.
>
>What you said is TRUE...If ya
>heart gets all bruk up
>real young it can take
>away your CONFIDENCE in your
>MANHOOD...However, most men, LIKE THEIR
>FEMALE COUNTERPARTS, utilize survival skills...And
>come to whatever conclusions thy
>will based on what women
>and relatioships they have chosen
>to PAY ATTETION to.

Now see HERE is where we disagree. I don't think most men use survival skills like women do. Eventually, a woman will open her heart up to the right man who can touch her in a way that makes her feel unafraid of being vulnerable again. Men don't do that. Even when they pursue future relationships, they tend to keep SOME part of their heart tucked away, afraid that they might get hurt again, like they did before. Like they just can't let themselves COMPLETELY go again.


>>A funny thing, I also noticed
>is you didn't mention another
>VERY IMPORTANT rean for the
>"women ain't shit" mentality...
>
>Little boys whose mothers are straight
>up HOES...It's funny how ya'll
>NEVER discuss how PROMISCUITY can
>DEVASTATE children...Do ya'll feel that
>that topic is LIMITED to
>HOE MOMMAS??? There are
>HOE DADDIES in the world.

Yeah, there are plenty of ho-dads and ho-moms in the world. But as long as they emotionally and financially support their children with zeal and passion once they arrive, I'm not mad at 'em.


>>But ya'll know this already...
>Yeah, ya'll know, you just don't
>wanna face up to it
>like that...

I don't mind facing up to it. I KNOW that it is the woman who brings the man to good things. That is why I FIRMLY believe that if Black women REFUSED to accept inappropriate behavior from Black men, y'all would shape up. IN A HEARTBEAT. 'Cuz all o' y'all don't WANT white women, and aren't going to run to them because we are "too demanding". But, that is a collective decision that Sistahs have to make in order to revolutionize our own community, and I know we just aren't there yet. This is something that could have been settled at the MWM, but ANYway.....

>>Isn't it funny though, that when
>>women get broken-hearted, and then
>>are very guarded in dealing
>>w/ future men, she is
>>accused of being bitter, but
>>when men do the same
>>thing in the form of
>>"hittin' it and leaving" or
>>copping a "women ain't shit"
>>attitude, THEY are just being
>>"hard", or men. There is
>>something INHERENTLY WRONG with the
>>cultural acceptance of that which
>>exists at this time.
>
>
>Well first off, I don't think
>that you wanna bring up
>that whole,
>"hittin it and quitting" routine in
>this discussion, cuz NOT ONLY
>
>do most of these SILLY young
>girls DIG that type of
>SHIT(WHAT A PARADOX!), but a
>couple of the people in
>this forum that are responding
>to this post got here
>as a result of some
>SILLY cluck who thought they
>could lock down some HOE
>ass man by havin his
>kid.


You dealt with alot in this segment, but I'll just address the part about women like for men to "hit it and dip". What women do YOU know? NO woman wants that! Not a one. Now, if she is in a Space where she wants casual relationships, she might sleep around while she is on the rebound, or whatever. Even when women SAY they want a casual relationship, if she is only sleeping with one guy, she is lying, and secretly wanting a relationship with that guy. Women might PLAY like they want to keep things light, out of fear that admitting their real feelings will scare the guy off.

>>AIN'T NOTHIN' COMING OUT OF OR
>GOIN' BETWEEN THOSE THIGHS GONNA
>KEEP A MAN IF HE
>CAN'T OR DOESN'T FIRST RESPECT,
>ADMIRE AND HONESTLY LOVE A
>WOMAN.


TRue, BUT I think Black men in particular have this nun-like image of what a woman has to be to merit respect. Like a woman can't be sensual, intelligent, and worthy of high regard simultaneously .


>>But fatherlessness is TOTALLY a man's
>fault...

agreed.

>>Uhhmmm...I also notice we didn't
>mention chicks who USE they
>kids and the law to
>push away a man they
>hate...Forcing suffering on the man
>who TRULY LOVES they children.

I did not think to mention that, but we can discuss it. That is wrong too. I think that is what the organization DADS, Inc. is fighting to address, though.


>>Ya'll wanna talk. I'm saying...Let's
>talk about it!!!



"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

>>>But what really ASTONISHED me is
>>YOU GOT FELT!
>
>What do you mean by this
>statement, exactly?

I meant it astonished me that you felt her saying black men (as a collective, like we the borg and shit) ain't been handlin business. When in actuality the step up to fatherhood is on the rise in our communities...

>>What you said is TRUE...If ya
>>heart gets all bruk up
>>real young it can take
>>away your CONFIDENCE in your
>>MANHOOD...However, most men, LIKE THEIR
>>FEMALE COUNTERPARTS, utilize survival skills...And
>>come to whatever conclusions thy
>>will based on what women
>>and relatioships they have chosen
>>to PAY ATTETION to.
>
>Now see HERE is where we
>disagree. I don't think most
>men use survival skills like
>women do. Eventually, a woman
>will open her heart up
>to the right man who
>can touch her in a
>way that makes her feel
>unafraid of being vulnerable again.
>Men don't do that. Even
>when they pursue future relationships,
>they tend to keep SOME
>part of their heart tucked
>away, afraid that they might
>get hurt again, like they
>did before. Like they
>just can't let themselves COMPLETELY
>go again.


That point is dependent on wht man you wit.
Is he fronting the role?
>>>A funny thing, I also noticed
>>is you didn't mention another
>>VERY IMPORTANT rean for the
>>"women ain't shit" mentality...
>>
>>Little boys whose mothers are straight
>>up HOES...It's funny how ya'll
>>NEVER discuss how PROMISCUITY can
>>DEVASTATE children...Do ya'll feel that
>>that topic is LIMITED to
>>HOE MOMMAS??? There are
>>HOE DADDIES in the world.
>
>Yeah, there are plenty of ho-dads
>and ho-moms in the world.
>But as long as they
>emotionally and financially support their
>children with zeal and passion
>once they arrive, I'm not
>mad at 'em.

I'm not discussing a CAPABLE PARENT with a vivrant sex life when I reference HOE...I'm talking 'bout the going to the club every day, comin home with many faces, not handlin they biz runnin after men leavin Jr. with Granma type clucks...& crackheads too.

>>>But ya'll know this already...
>>Yeah, ya'll know, you just don't
>>wanna face up to it
>>like that...
>
>I don't mind facing up to
>it. I KNOW that it
>is the woman who brings
>the man to good things.
>That is why I FIRMLY
>believe that if Black women
>REFUSED to accept inappropriate behavior
>from Black men, y'all would
>shape up. IN A HEARTBEAT.
>'Cuz all o' y'all don't
>WANT white women, and aren't
>going to run to them
>because we are "too demanding".
>But, that is a collective
>decision that Sistahs have to
>make in order to revolutionize
>our own community, and I
>know we just aren't there
>yet. This is something that
>could have been settled at
>the MWM, but ANYway.....


NO DOUBT...More sistahs need to follow your instructions...Ya'll should pay attention to us ad then you'll see you actually RULE our hearts...

>>>Isn't it funny though, that when
>>>women get broken-hearted, and then
>>>are very guarded in dealing
>>>w/ future men, she is
>>>accused of being bitter, but
>>>when men do the same
>>>thing in the form of
>>>"hittin' it and leaving" or
>>>copping a "women ain't shit"
>>>attitude, THEY are just being
>>>"hard", or men. There is
>>>something INHERENTLY WRONG with the
>>>cultural acceptance of that which
>>>exists at this time.
>>
>>
>>Well first off, I don't think
>>that you wanna bring up
>>that whole,
>>"hittin it and quitting" routine in
>>this discussion, cuz NOT ONLY
>>do most of these SILLY young
>>girls DIG that type of
>>SHIT(WHAT A PARADOX!), but a
>>couple of the people in
>>this forum that are responding
>>to this post got here
>>as a result of some
>>SILLY cluck who thought they
>>could lock down some HOE
>>ass man by havin his
>>kid.


>You dealt with alot in this
>segment, but I'll just address
>the part about women like
>for men to "hit it
>and dip". What women do
>YOU know? NO woman wants
>that! Not a one. Now,
>if she is in a
>Space where she wants casual
>relationships, she might sleep around
>while she is on the
>rebound, or whatever. Even
>when women SAY they want
>a casual relationship, if she
>is only sleeping with one
>guy, she is lying, and
>secretly wanting a relationship with
>that guy. Women might PLAY
>like they want to keep
>things light, out of fear
>that admitting their real feelings
>will scare the guy off.

Two things:
1.) In response to your question about WOMEN, I know a LOT of women...That's why I phrased it like I did...Keep in mind, not all GIRLS reach he status of WOMAN when they have kids...That's the only reason I felt so passionately on this ish.

2.) In response to your address of females playing the role in casual relationships- Why? (c) the incessant two year old child.

>>>AIN'T NOTHIN' COMING OUT OF OR
>>GOIN' BETWEEN THOSE THIGHS GONNA
>>KEEP A MAN IF HE
>>CAN'T OR DOESN'T FIRST RESPECT,
>>ADMIRE AND HONESTLY LOVE A
>>WOMAN.
>
>
>TRue, BUT I think Black men
>in particular have this nun-like
>image of what a woman
>has to be to merit
>respect. Like a woman can't
>be sensual, intelligent, and worthy
>of high regard simultaneously .

True. We DO have ass backwards understanding, a lot of times.
But I don't think that a woman has to be a NUN to merit respect; I'm saying, just TRY and act intelligently about ya business & relationships and ya'll straight wit me.

Unfortnately, all I'm used to seeing is wayward negroes. (That's prolly why i spend so much time on this site)

>>>But fatherlessness is TOTALLY a man's
>>fault...
>
>agreed.

I was really trying to be sarcastic...

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume for the next figure. Take in about 3-7% of this fatherlessness happens also as a result of females who get preg, then decide that they DON'T want the biological father to be involved in that child's life because of whatever reason. This is an example of FORCED FATHER ABSENCE.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Damn Kris, don't be frontin on ya meat fa real!!-Krispee soundin like Ghostface.
:

JUNE IS STEVIE WONDER APPRECIATION MONTH
so...

Where were you when I needed you last winter, my love?-
Superwoman/Where were you when I needed you
Ok happy?

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

Black men have A LOT of work to do. PERIOD. Stop trying to blame everything on women.




>>I meant it astonished me that
>you felt her saying black
>men (as a collective, like
>we the borg and shit)
>ain't been handlin business.
>When in actuality the step
>up to fatherhood is on
>the rise in our communities...




"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

BLACK PEOPLE have a lot of work to do...I don't wanna make black women sound like the scapegoat but the point was we BOTH ain't perfect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Damn Kris, don't be frontin on ya meat fa real!!-Krispee soundin like Ghostface.
:

JUNE IS STEVIE WONDER APPRECIATION MONTH
so...
See me in a couple mo' posts.

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

EXACTLY WHAT POINT DID I MAKE IN MY SECOND TO LAST REPLY MADE YOU ASSUME I WAS TRYING TO BLAME WOMEN FOR OUR ROLE IN THE LIVES OF OUR KIDS? (3-7% is EXTREMELY low. If you want I'll give you a first hand example of that).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Damn Kris, don't be frontin on ya meat fa real!!-Krispee soundin like Ghostface.
:

JUNE IS STEVIE WONDER APPRECIATION MONTH
so...
See me in a couple mo' posts.

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

I'd appreciate that as a point of clarity in the discussion.


>>(3-7%
>is EXTREMELY low. If
>you want I'll give you
>a first hand example of
>that).
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Damn Kris, don't be frontin on
>ya meat fa real!!-Krispee soundin
>like Ghostface.
> :
>
>JUNE IS STEVIE WONDER APPRECIATION MONTH
>
>so...
>See me in a couple mo'
>posts.


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

Well you get no argument from me on THAT one. I have my own litany of corrections I need to/am about attend/attending to. I know that applies to each and everyone of us as well. Thankfully, I don't have to worry about "resisting my strong urge to be a ho, while my mother raises my children" being ONE of those corrections.


>>BLACK PEOPLE have a lot of
>work to do...I don't wanna
>make black women sound like
>the scapegoat but the point
>was we BOTH ain't perfect.
"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

>And yes...A weak man CAN NOT
>BE A PROTECTOR OF A
>SURVIVOR (<--I hope) such as
>your likes...However, to give up
>on the structure of FAMILY
>(TWO OPPOSITE SEX PARENTAL FIGURES
>TO GUIDE THE CHILDREN), whether
>married or not...
>
>It WILL lead to disappointment...
>
>TRUST...
>Though you MAY NOT be able
>to appreciate it now through
>what you see/have seen...YOU AS
>A WOMAN NEED A GOOD
>"STRONG"(<--By the way, what's your
>definition? Just Curious...) MAN TO
>GROW INTO OLD AGE WITH....MOST
>ESPECIALLY TO RAISE HEALTHY CHILDREN
>WITH....OVERSTAND THAT NO WOMAN CAN
>RAISE A BOY INTO A
>MAN. I KNOW THIS
>FROM A FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE
>BEING THE SON OF A
>SINGLE MOTHER WHO TRIED TO
>RAISE ME TO AVOID PHYSICAL
>CONFRONTATION AT ALL COSTS...(didn't work
>also).......Plus, there are just things
>a boy can NOT discuss
>with a woman for guidance
>and understanding...Plus....
>
>The world is tough without us...You'd
>be SURPRISED at all the
>little things our strength can
>accomplish. Even when you
>break it down to the
>point of moving heavy objects
>around the apartment/house, a man,
>in the most basic sense,
>is a utility no woman
>can/should be without...

You replied...
>It is quite possible to be
>a strong, Black woman, raise
>your own children, and have
>male role models in your
>children's life who are not
>necessarily your King. While the
>ultimate situation would be to
>have two WHOLE parents raising
>the children, sometimes that is
>not possible.

NO DOUBT. Sometimes people just find out a lil late that they're not fit to be together. This is true.


For me personally,
>I plan to adopt, with,
>or without a Husband. A
>"strong, good" Man ENHANCES a
>family situation, but a family
>situation could still be loving
>and functional w/o a full-time
>father presence.


It is just
>important to make sure that
>the children are provided positive
>male role models outside the
>home in those scenarioes.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thank You for saying this...This is actually what I meant to say. I don't know if my statements reflected this. But we got beef now for this accusation......

>*If U have won a Grammy,
>one of two things are
>at play: 1. Your shit
>is TIGHT
>
>
>
> 2.
>U are white
>-(Me)

^^^^Is ?uestlove white?
I think it just means your music REALLY sold, REALLY safe, or REALLY tight or all of the above...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
June sig on the way.

_____________________________________________
DOWNLOAD THE HELLO EP Spit by yours truly!
http://www.zshare.net/download/80520753aae60df7/
Just a PSA

but his shit is MAAAD tight. So rule #1 applied to him.


"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

...positve male and female figures in order to develop into whole human beings. I testified about my father but the issue wasn't just about being abusive. He was irresponsible with his behavior around his daughters and that can be just as damaging as not having a father at all.

Fortunately, I had postive men in my life to counteract the negative influence of my father. They taught me that I was enough. Even my father taught me that. I learned I was capable and free to be myself with out needing justification from any man (or woman). I also learned not to rely on physical appearance to succeed in life.

Finally, I left the male/female roles behind because in many families it doesn't not work. Do I need a strong man beside me to succeed or do I need to be complete within? Hopefully, I can have a mature, honest, open man beside me who is as complete as I feel. Then, my future children have a chance for a positive relationship with their father.

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

>>1) At what age did you
>have your first sexual
>experience?
15

>
>2) What was your chief motivation
>for entering that
>relationship, or those relationships?

love, for whut i thought at the time
>
>3) Do you distinguish sex from
>love, or are they the
>
>same thing to you?

no
>
>4) Did you ever consider having
>a child, although at
>the time you weren't married? If
>yes, how old were you
>
>and what motivated the desire?

yes, i was 17 & b/c i wanted sumthin that belonged to me
>
>5) If you have children, what
>is your relationship
>with them- are they used to
>fill the empty space in
>
>your life; so they serve as
>a weapon for keeping your
>
>partner in line, etc. If you
>do not have children, so
>
>you still have a strong desire
>to have them; what is
>
>your motivation?
>
i dont have children now b/c i cant take care of them rite now, like
i imagine id want to, or wld

>6) How and why did you
>end your last relationship?

i was insecure, and let him go
>
>7) How strongly do you respond
>to criticism from a
>mate?

very

Even when the criticism is
>valid, do you
>sometimes find yourself worried about whether
>the
>comments mean he is about to
>break off the
>relationship?

yes
>
>8) Do you prefer dating men
>who are married, have
>another girlfriend, or are intensely involed
>with
>their work?

no, not AT ALL
>
>9) Do you sometimes find yourself
>in a good
>relationship but still feel uncomfortable about
>it?

yes
>
>10) How often have you ended
>a relationship before the
>man whom you were dating, living
>with, or married to
>decided to end it?

once
>
>11) When you look at yourself
>in the mirror, what do
>
>you see?

things i show/tell no on else

Are you comfortable or
>uncomfortable with
>your body image?

not all the time
>
>12) How many times have you
>tried dieting or gaining
>weight over the last three years?

ugh
>
>
>13) Have you ever suffered bulimia,
>anorexia, or any
>other eating disorder?

yes, but not bulimia nor anorexia
>
>14) When you are hurt, angry,
>or lonely, do you
>frequently head for the refridgerator, for
>the stove,
>or for that bottle of wine?

for my notebook, my cd collection & the fone to call shaun
>
>
>15) How often do you head
>for work, either in your
>
>house or at your office, when
>things are going badly
>in a relationship?

like to keep myself busy
>
>16) Do you lash out at
>others for no apparent reason?
>
im rude, honest, i ahve low tolerance for a lot of shit, so yeah
>
>17) Have you within the past
>five years been the first
>
>to attack, verbally or physically, your
>male partner?

no
>
>18) Do you sometimes become so
>angry with yourself
>that you deny yourself certain niceties?

yes
>
>
>19) Do you sometimes spend days
>in bed when you are
>
>not physically ill, find yourself tired
>when you have
>exerted very little if any physical
>energy, realize
>you can't get yourself motivated?

all the time
>
>20) Have you ever thought that
>you would be better off
>
>dead, ever thought of commiting suicide,
>ever
>attempted suicide?

yes
>
>21) Do you sometimes bend over
>backward in a
>relationship, attempting to please the other
>person,
>even if it means sacrificing your
>own pleasure and
>happiness?

yes
>
>22) Do you invest more time
>in helping a man improve
>
>his life than you do in
>improving your own?

no
>
>23) Are you frequently overly conscious
>of how people
>perceive you?

sumtimes
>
>24) Do you feel that you
>never measure up to others?

no
>
>
>25) Do you believe everything you
>do has to be
>perfect?

there is no other way to be


*this coming frum sumone w/ a distant but there father, and a stepfather,
and slew of uncles















apparently you haven't applied for your okayclique card.
you need this card and registration number to receive a *minimum* of three responses from the freestyle board clique members (aka: the "circular thoughts party.")
if you don't have the "privilege" to carry such a card, i'm afraid you're out of luck.

- timid(us) grape(idus)



so yeah, i entered the contest at bpdotcom, be a dearie and read it.
"for topgun, sha sha and them"
be a wunderful dearie and vote for me.

i just want chu to know
how i feel
how i feel

>1) At what age did you
>have your first sexual
>experience?

17

>2) What was your chief motivation
>for entering that
>relationship, or those relationships?

To explore and find out what the big deal was about sex. I made a bet with my roommate my freshman year on who would lose their virginity first.

>3) Do you distinguish sex from
>love, or are they the
>same thing to you?

After the first time, I don't engage in sex unless I love and care about the person.

>4) Did you ever consider having
>a child, although at
>the time you weren't married? If
>yes, how old were you
>and what motivated the desire?

I was 25. I thought it was time since my mother was the same age when she had me.

>5) If you do not have children, so
>you still have a strong desire
>to have them; what is
>your motivation?

I realized I am not at the same place in life my mother was at 25 and I am not the same person. I want to have a child by a man who is PRESENT and when the conditions are right I will have children.

>6) How and why did you
>end your last relationship?

I have had a eight-year, on and off relationship with the same man.

>7) How strongly do you respond
>to criticism from a
>mate? Even when the criticism is
>valid, do you
>sometimes find yourself worried about whether
>the comments mean he is about to
>break off the
>relationship?

I respond positively when the criticism is constructive. I am not worried about the relationship but I am sensitive to criticism that is not helpful.

>8) Do you prefer dating men
>who are married, have
>another girlfriend, or are intensely involed
>with their work?

I have never dated a married man but I have been involved as the other woman and with hard-working men. The first relationship was an accident that I ended after six months, when I was 19. With the others, we drifted apart when I moved away/went to school.

>9) Do you sometimes find yourself
>in a good relationship but still feel uncomfortable about
>it?

No

>10) How often have you ended
>a relationship before the
>man whom you were dating, living
>with, or married to
>decided to end it?

I was always the first to end the relationship.

>11) When you look at yourself
>in the mirror, what do
>you see? Are you comfortable or
>uncomfortable with
>your body image?

I see a 30 year old who looks 25. I see the girl I once was and the woman I am becoming. I am comfortable with my body image but I am dedicated to strengthening/preserving it.

>12) How many times have you
>tried dieting or gaining
>weight over the last three years?

None

>13) Have you ever suffered bulimia,
>anorexia, or any
>other eating disorder?

No

>14) When you are hurt, angry,
>or lonely, do you
>frequently head for the refridgerator, for
>the stove,
>or for that bottle of wine?

I pray, meditate, write, make art and/or talk to my best friend or sister.

>15) How often do you head
>for work, either in your
>house or at your office, when
>things are going badly
>in a relationship?

Hardly ever.

>16) Do you lash out at
>others for no apparent reason?

No

>17) Have you within the past
>five years been the first
>to attack, verbally or physically, your
>male partner?

No

>18) Do you sometimes become so
>angry with yourself
>that you deny yourself certain niceties?

No

>19) Do you sometimes spend days
>in bed when you are
>not physically ill, find yourself tired
>when you have exerted very little if any physical
>energy, realize you can't get yourself motivated?

No

>20) Have you ever thought that
>you would be better off
>dead, ever thought of commiting suicide,
>ever attempted suicide?

I thought of commiting suicide when I was 12.

>21) Do you sometimes bend over
>backward in a relationship, attempting to please the other
>person, even if it means sacrificing your
>own pleasure and happiness?

Seldom if ever

>22) Do you invest more time
>in helping a man improve
>his life than you do in
>improving your own?

No

>23) Are you frequently overly conscious
>of how people
>perceive you?

Hardly ever.

>24) Do you feel that you
>never measure up to others?

Never

>25) Do you believe everything you
>do has to be
>perfect?

Sometimes


"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

'cause I need something to do...

>1) At what age did you
>have your first sexual
>experience?

16

>
>2) What was your chief motivation
>for entering that
>relationship, or those relationships?

we had that puppy love thing going...very innocent at first. just progressed as we got older.


>3) Do you distinguish sex from
>love, or are they the
>
>same thing to you?

TOTALLY separate entities. Sex is a part of love, but just cause I sleep w/ someone doesn't mean they owe me something


>4) Did you ever consider having
>a child, although at
>the time you weren't married? If
>yes, how old were you
>
>and what motivated the desire?

no. I have been in relationships where I knew I wouldn't abort the child if that were to happen, but I never really *wanted* kids.


>
>5) If you have children, what
>is your relationship
>with them- are they used to
>fill the empty space in
>
>your life; so they serve as
>a weapon for keeping your
>
>partner in line, etc. If you
>do not have children, so
>
>you still have a strong desire
>to have them; what is
>
>your motivation?

n/a


>6) How and why did you
>end your last relationship?

He broke it off. He was having some serious issues in his life and didn't want me caught up in them, so he left.


>7) How strongly do you respond
>to criticism from a
>mate? Even when the criticism is
>valid, do you
>sometimes find yourself worried about whether
>the
>comments mean he is about to
>break off the
>relationship?

no. if it's invalid, I'll let him know. if it's valid, I'll see what I can do to work it out.


>8) Do you prefer dating men
>who are married, have
>another girlfriend, or are intensely involed
>with
>their work?

hell the fuck no. for a myriad of reasons.


>9) Do you sometimes find yourself
>in a good
>relationship but still feel uncomfortable about
>it?

I've been very blessed in my relationships. Although I do have my insecurities, I wouldn't say I feel uncomfortable just because the relationship is going well.


>10) How often have you ended
>a relationship before the
>man whom you were dating, living
>with, or married to
>decided to end it?

once.


>11) When you look at yourself
>in the mirror, what do
>
>you see? Are you comfortable or
>uncomfortable with
>your body image?

nope. I mean, we all have our bad days, but generally I'm fine w/ what I see.


>12) How many times have you
>tried dieting or gaining
>weight over the last three years?

none.


>13) Have you ever suffered bulimia,
>anorexia, or any
>other eating disorder?

no.


>14) When you are hurt, angry,
>or lonely, do you
>frequently head for the refridgerator, for
>the stove,
>or for that bottle of wine?

no...I usually wind up writing.


>15) How often do you head
>for work, either in your
>
>house or at your office, when
>things are going badly
>in a relationship?

I don't.

>
>16) Do you lash out at
>others for no apparent reason?

no...


>17) Have you within the past
>five years been the first
>
>to attack, verbally or physically, your
>male partner?

um...not that I can remember


>18) Do you sometimes become so
>angry with yourself
>that you deny yourself certain niceties?

no


>19) Do you sometimes spend days
>in bed when you are
>
>not physically ill, find yourself tired
>when you have
>exerted very little if any physical
>energy, realize
>you can't get yourself motivated?

nope.

>
>20) Have you ever thought that
>you would be better off
>
>dead, ever thought of commiting suicide,
>ever
>attempted suicide?

no


>21) Do you sometimes bend over
>backward in a
>relationship, attempting to please the other
>person,
>even if it means sacrificing your
>own pleasure and
>happiness?

to a certain extent (like when I'm first getting to know someone) I find myself catering to my sig. other, but not to that extent.


>22) Do you invest more time
>in helping a man improve
>
>his life than you do in
>improving your own?

no.


>23) Are you frequently overly conscious
>of how people
>perceive you?

no


>24) Do you feel that you
>never measure up to others?

no.


>25) Do you believe everything you
>do has to be
>perfect?

hell no



~~~SPITFIRE (NEW DATE): AUGUST 23, 2001~~~
Wanna know more? Hit me up: carameldom@hotmail.com
(((check the flyers: http://www.geocities.com/bmorestreetwise/flyers.html)))

http://www.welcome.to/okaypoets (u ain't a real okayplayer if u ain't been here)

"cats pop champagne/over misery and pain/like slaves on the ship/talkin 'bout/who got the flyest chains" ~~Talib Kweli

"you can't fool me! I'm too stupid!" (c) a random warner bros. cartoon character

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

>because everyone is so open and that's precious...
>
>
>>1) At what age did you
>>have your first sexual
>>experience?

if you mean by, intercouse, i've haven't had it
but if you mean kissing and heavy petting, 6 or 7,
i was repeating my abusers pattern of abuse with other boys....

>>2) What was your chief motivation
>>for entering that
>>relationship, or those relationships?

i thought it was how you normally relate to boys

>>3) Do you distinguish sex from
>>love, or are they the same?

i believe there can be love in sex, love without sex, or no love just sex....


>>4) Did you ever consider having
>>a child, although at
>>the time you weren't married? If
>>yes, how old were you
>>
>>and what motivated the desire?

>no, i will not have a child without a husband.....that's why i am not married...i have not met any man worthy enough to father my children and be a life long partner....if i can not find a man worthy to father and raise my children, i will not be married.....children are just too precious to be effing around....


>>5) If you have children, what
>>is your relationship
>>with them- are they used to
>>fill the empty space in
>>
>>your life; so they serve as
>>a weapon for keeping your
>>
>>partner in line, etc. If you
>>do not have children, so
>>
>>you still have a strong desire
>>to have them; what is
>>
>>your motivation?

i do not have a strong desire to have children....although i do love children....like i said to raise and nurture children, you need to have a strong and spirtually committed partner....i just have not found that....

>>6) How and why did you
>>end your last relationship?

he followed the teachings of muhommad(sp), i followed the teachings of christ.....we were too strong in our faiths to compromise...especially when it came to our future children.....we were engaged to be married.....we thought it best to seperate now, because our marriage would have ended in divorce.....we were both the product of inept and divorced parents....

>>7) How strongly do you respond
>>to criticism from a
>>mate? Even when the criticism is
>>valid, do you
>>sometimes find yourself worried about whether
>>the
>>comments mean he is about to
>>break off the
>>relationship?

no....if you think my sight is a little blurry.....love me enuff to tell me......

>>8) Do you prefer dating men
>>who are married, have
>>another girlfriend, or are intensely involed
>>with
>>their work?

no, i don't....i won't share....it's all or nothing with me....

>>9) Do you sometimes find yourself
>>in a good
>>relationship but still feel uncomfortable about
>>it?

no

>>10) How often have you ended
>>a relationship before the
>>man whom you were dating, living
>>with, or married to
>>decided to end it?

in my last serious relationship....we mutually agreed to end it.

>>11) When you look at yourself
>>in the mirror, what do
>>
>>you see? Are you comfortable or
>>uncomfortable with
>>your body image?

i'm comfortable with my body image....


>>12) How many times have you
>>tried dieting or gaining
>>weight over the last three years?

>none.

>>13) Have you ever suffered bulimia,
>>anorexia, or any
>>other eating disorder?

>no.

>>14) When you are hurt, angry,
>>or lonely, do you
>>frequently head for the refridgerator, for
>>the stove,
>>or for that bottle of wine?

>no, i usually read Psalms, write, or play a hard game of agressive basketball.......

>>15) How often do you head
>>for work, either in your
>>
>>house or at your office, when
>>things are going badly
>>in a relationship?

>I try to deal with my feelings.....i allow myself to feel the pain, hurt, or sorrow.....and work through it....

>>16) Do you lash out at
>>others for no apparent reason?

>no, i tend to seperate myself and deal with what i am feeling.

>>17) Have you within the past
>>five years been the first
>>
>>to attack, verbally or physically, your
>>male partner?

no

>>18) Do you sometimes become so
>>angry with yourself
>>that you deny yourself certain niceties?

>no

>>19) Do you sometimes spend days
>>in bed when you are
>>
>>not physically ill, find yourself tired
>>when you have
>>exerted very little if any physical
>>energy, realize
>>you can't get yourself motivated?

i used to, but i've gotten a lot better with dealing with my feelings....so it's not much of a problem anymore....

>>20) Have you ever thought that
>>you would be better off
>>
>>dead, ever thought of commiting suicide,
>>ever
>>attempted suicide?

yes, in my teens and early twenties

>
>>21) Do you sometimes bend over
>>backward in a
>>relationship, attempting to please the other
>>person,
>>even if it means sacrificing your
>>own pleasure and
>>happiness?
>
i used to do this, but not anymore.....it makes you resentful and you end up lashing out in the end.....if i don't feel like doing something, i explain why....so feelings won't get hurt....


>>22) Do you invest more time
>>in helping a man improve
>>
>>his life than you do in
>>improving your own?

i used to do this, but not anymore....if he ain't ready, he ain't gone be ready......

>>23) Are you frequently overly conscious
>>of how people
>>perceive you?

used to be, but not anymore...

>>24) Do you feel that you
>>never measure up to others?

used to think this, but not anymore......

>>25) Do you believe everything you
>>do has to be
>>perfect?

used to, but not anymore.....

peace in love,
philia

cuz my father wasn't around much, and when he was his butt was on the couch and he and mom were fighting

>3) Do you distinguish sex from love, or are they the same thing to you?

i can only be with someone i consider to be a good friend who respects me, even if that means goin dry for a long time-

>4) Did you ever consider having a child, although at
>the time you weren't married? If yes, how old were you and what motivated the desire?

yeh, in fact i concieved a child when i wasn't married and am now 5 months pregnant and engaged. i am 24 years old. it was a combination between a love affair with unprotected sex and a ticking clock that was worsened by a morning after pill and miscarriage.

>6) How and why did you end your last relationship?

because he was cute and fun but not ready to grow up. he moved and i found someone else.

>7) How strongly do you respond to criticism from a
>mate? Even when the criticism is valid, do you
>sometimes find yourself worried about whether the
>comments mean he is about to break off the relationship?

i have a tough time believing any relationship is permanent. everything seems final. that's changing, though. so maybe it was just about finding the right poerson to trust or i'd grown up the right amount.

>8) Do you prefer dating men who are married, have
>another girlfriend, or are intensely involed with their work?

no but if my man needs or wants to work i'll encourage him instead of feeling neglected

>9) Do you sometimes find yourself in a good
>relationship but still feel uncomfortable about it?

before: always. now i'm completely comfortable.

>10) How often have you ended a relationship before the
>man whom you were dating, living with, or married to
>decided to end it?

usually.

>11) When you look at yourself in the mirror, what do
>you see? Are you comfortable or uncomfortable with
>your body image?

a hell of a lot more comfortable than i've been in the past. i try not to judge myself.

>12) How many times have you tried dieting or gaining
>weight over the last three years?

none

>13) Have you ever suffered bulimia, anorexia, or any
>other eating disorder?

all of the above

>14) When you are hurt, angry, or lonely, do you
>frequently head for the refridgerator, for the stove,
>or for that bottle of wine?

bottle of whiskey or drugs. cigarrettes. or i cook and cook but never eat much.

>15) How often do you head for work, either in your
house or at your office, when things are going badly
>in a relationship?

never

>16) Do you lash out at others for no apparent reason?

i'm sure some would think so. i have a bad temper.

>17) Have you within the past five years been the first
>to attack, verbally or physically, your male partner?

i'm sure i have

>18) Do you sometimes become so angry with yourself
>that you deny yourself certain niceties?

if niceties include drugs, alcohol and cigarrettes-

>19) Do you sometimes spend days in bed when you are
>not physically ill, find yourself tired when you have
>exerted very little if any physical energy, realize
>you can't get yourself motivated?

about 1-2 times a year when i've been really really busy

>20) Have you ever thought that you would be better off
>dead, ever thought of commiting suicide,
>ever attempted suicide?

no

>21) Do you sometimes bend over backward in a
>relationship, attempting to please the other person,
>even if it means sacrificing your
>own pleasure and happiness?

i believe in compromiising things unless they are too important to compromise, but i expect the same from my partner. so it balances.

>22) Do you invest more time in helping a man improve
>his life than you do in improving your own?

i would do that for my man if he needed me because i know he would do it for me if i needed him

>23) Are you frequently overly conscious of how people
>perceive you?

no

>24) Do you feel that you never measure up to others?

no

>25) Do you believe everything you do has to be perfect?

as close as i can make it, yes.



==**peace**==

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

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you engaged with a child on the way.....god is good....i pray that your family adds to your happiness.....

peace in love,
philia