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HotThyng76
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51232 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 09:45 AM

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"Would you live anywhere else?"


  

          

Okay, so it's Independence Day here in the United States, and on 1st thought I say I couldn't care less. As a Black man, I have a hard time celebrating this country b/c of all the things my ppl have suffered at the hands of this government and many of the nation's private citizens as well. Not to mention the atrocities this nation is responsible for around the world. The situation is definitely fucked up...and I'm not about to wave any stars and stripes today, thank you.

But....then I remember some of the things I was taught in Social Studies class. All that shit about democracy...and men being created equal...and life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and all that...that's some GOOD SHIT. Okay, admittedly it hasn't quite worked out in practice, but damn! Just the very fact that those are among the founding principles of this little nasty nation...I think that's pretty tight. I dunno.

Maybe I'd rather be in France though. Or Argentina. I've only been abroad once (Paris), but every American I know who's been abroad extensively is always happy to return...especially those who visit less developed places. They've all told me the same thing...they were glad to leave America when their trip began, and each harbored thoughts of never returning. But then they got out in the world and saw just how American they were. All the things they'd taken for granted before...they suddenly became really appreciative.

I plan to live abroad at some point (Australia? Argentina? The UK?), but I'm sure it will only be temporary...or maybe not.

___________________

"Now where I come from/We don't let society tell us how it's supposed 2 be/Our clothes, our hair we don't care/It's all about being there" -Prince, "Uptown" (1980)

"No one I think is in my tree/I mean it must be high or low/That is you can't you know tune in/But it's alright/That is I think it's not too bad" - John Lennon, "Strawberry Fields Forever" (1967)

Coming July 25, 2001...HotThyng 25.0



_______________________

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
How could you do this
Jul 04th 2001
1
Huh?
Jul 04th 2001
2
      Nesta, revisied!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 04th 2001
3
           I agree.
Jul 04th 2001
4
                Basically!!!!!
Jul 04th 2001
5
                     This is some good shit.
Jul 04th 2001
6
                     You smokin?
Jul 04th 2001
7
                          Nope.
Jul 04th 2001
8
                     RE: Basically!!!!!
Karmel
Jul 12th 2001
72
y'all should move here
Jul 04th 2001
9
damn you gotta a hut?
Jul 04th 2001
14
      lol!!!
Jul 05th 2001
38
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Akh
Jul 04th 2001
10
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Akh
Jul 04th 2001
11
Zimbabwe
Jul 04th 2001
12
research your ancestors?
Jul 05th 2001
20
      Money.
Jul 05th 2001
33
           Use Ifa
Jul 06th 2001
67
hell no
Jul 04th 2001
13
I'm going to England
Jul 04th 2001
15
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
sniffsmokeswallow
Jul 04th 2001
16
um...
Jul 04th 2001
17
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 05th 2001
18
sunscreen
Jul 05th 2001
19
Yeah, that was a nice song
Caesar Jay
Jul 16th 2001
88
The freedom of thought and lifestyle that Europeans...
Jul 05th 2001
21
RE: The freedom of thought and lifestyle that Europeans...
Jul 05th 2001
22
      Africa, being a continent....
Jul 05th 2001
23
      Differences
Jul 05th 2001
27
           You seem as if...
Jul 05th 2001
30
                RE: You seem as if...
Jul 05th 2001
36
      RE: The freedom of thought and lifestyle that Europeans...
Caesar Jay
Jul 16th 2001
89
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 05th 2001
24
ha
Jul 05th 2001
37
uh huh,
Jul 05th 2001
25
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 05th 2001
26
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Elixir
Jul 06th 2001
42
ANYWHERE but here!
Jul 05th 2001
28
US citizenship
Jul 12th 2001
73
Back from Brazil
JMello
Jul 13th 2001
82
Dont go to Spain
Caesar Jay
Jul 16th 2001
90
HELL YES!! THERE"S SO MUCH MORE THAN AMERICA
Jul 05th 2001
29
Nope
Jul 05th 2001
31
exactly!
Jul 05th 2001
32
RE: Nope
Jul 06th 2001
43
      If you don't like it, leave
Jul 06th 2001
47
           I Plan too all of the above.
Jul 06th 2001
49
                RE: I Plan too all of the above.
Jul 06th 2001
55
                     BOMBSHELL -"BOOOOM!!"
Jul 06th 2001
57
                          riiiiiiiiiiiiight
Jul 06th 2001
58
                               RE: riiiiiiiiiiiiight
Jul 06th 2001
59
                                    Agree to Disagree
Jul 06th 2001
60
                                         RE: Agree to Disagree
Jul 06th 2001
61
                                              Bowing out semi-gracefully....
Jul 06th 2001
62
                                                   RE: Bowing out semi-gracefully....
Jul 06th 2001
63
                                                   RE: Bowing out semi-gracefully....
Jul 06th 2001
64
my parents come from...
Jul 05th 2001
34
RE: my parents come from...
Jul 06th 2001
50
      does that make
Jul 06th 2001
51
           RE: does that make
Jul 06th 2001
56
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Ami_Aura
Jul 05th 2001
35
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 06th 2001
39
      RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Ami_Aura
Jul 06th 2001
40
           RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 06th 2001
44
           RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 06th 2001
45
yes...
Jul 06th 2001
41
you pay for it
Jul 06th 2001
52
honestly? i don't know...
Jul 06th 2001
46
agreed
Jul 06th 2001
53
definitely...
Jul 12th 2001
69
ESPECIALLY women.
Jul 12th 2001
80
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
BuddhaWake
Jul 06th 2001
48
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 06th 2001
54
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 06th 2001
65
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 06th 2001
66
      RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 12th 2001
68
      RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 12th 2001
75
           Thank you
Jul 12th 2001
76
                re: thank you
Jul 12th 2001
78
You know, that's cute but
Jul 12th 2001
79
RE: You know, that's cute but
Jul 13th 2001
81
      So, where exactly is this place?
Jul 14th 2001
83
           RE: So, where exactly is this place?
Jul 15th 2001
85
                I agree w/you wholeheartedly.
Jul 15th 2001
86
RE: Would you...(FACT CHECK)
JMello
Jul 14th 2001
84
      RE: Would you...(FACT CHECK)
Jul 16th 2001
87
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
digitalcaptive
Jul 12th 2001
70
You're a guy?
Jul 12th 2001
71
What'd you think?
Jul 12th 2001
74
RE: Would you live anywhere else?
Jul 12th 2001
77

Soul1908
Member since Sep 19th 2002
236 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 09:48 AM

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1. "How could you do this"
In response to Reply # 0


          

to me...
I always thought you were a woman... did you know this and just let me keep it up?
Soul

Learn to love the all in all and thus the all in yourself

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 09:50 AM

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2. "Huh?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

My profile has never changed.

And I never made any direct statements about my gender or sex.

I'm sorry you thought I'm an XX.

_______________________

  

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MisterGrump
Charter member
32144 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 09:57 AM

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3. "Nesta, revisied!!!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

Could I live anywhere else. No! I'm rooted here and to me leaving the USA to live somewhere else constitutes leaving a job undone. Juss like I find it hard to live anywhere else thn Chicago after I finish my education, my roots are there and I want to improve my folks' situatin in The CHI.

Nahmean?


little......
*************************************
http://members.blackplanet.com/GrumpyBear/
*************************************
"And I really really really don't like thinking too deeply about shit, so I'm not going to go do a search for the chemical make-up of feces to find out whether any of it's essential ingredients emit an odor regardless of diet. I try and guard my thoughts."(c) HotThyng76 on food intake and it's benefits

"Knowing nothing in life but to be legit
Don't quote me boy, cuz I ain't saying shit"

Eazy-E.......http://www.tha-renaissance.com/

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 10:03 AM

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4. "I agree."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

While my roots are less localized, I do feel that I can't just up and take off from here.

And besides, in my heart of hearts, I do enjoy the perks that come w/being an American.

_______________________

  

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MisterGrump
Charter member
32144 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 10:13 AM

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5. "Basically!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

I mean, really, all this land with all the regional nuances is too much to juss up and leave for something else. Particularly, less technological areas(i.e. no hot water and digital cable).


little......
*************************************
http://members.blackplanet.com/GrumpyBear/
*************************************
"And I really really really don't like thinking too deeply about shit, so I'm not going to go do a search for the chemical make-up of feces to find out whether any of it's essential ingredients emit an odor regardless of diet. I try and guard my thoughts."(c) HotThyng76 on food intake and it's benefits

"Knowing nothing in life but to be legit
Don't quote me boy, cuz I ain't saying shit"

Eazy-E.......http://www.tha-renaissance.com/

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 10:33 AM

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6. "This is some good shit."
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

I mean, look at us! We're sitting here communicating w/each other w/hundreds of miles between us. All of us, I mean.

This is a beautiful thing.


_______________________

  

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MisterGrump
Charter member
32144 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 10:34 AM

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7. "You smokin?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

If you are, can you send some thru the fiber optics my way?


little......
*************************************
http://members.blackplanet.com/GrumpyBear/
*************************************
"And I really really really don't like thinking too deeply about shit, so I'm not going to go do a search for the chemical make-up of feces to find out whether any of it's essential ingredients emit an odor regardless of diet. I try and guard my thoughts."(c) HotThyng76 on food intake and it's benefits

"Knowing nothing in life but to be legit
Don't quote me boy, cuz I ain't saying shit"

Eazy-E.......http://www.tha-renaissance.com/

________________________________________
Grump
http://twitter.com/Gator_Bell

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 10:40 AM

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8. "Nope."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I'm on a break.

Although it would be nice right about now....

_______________________

  

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Karmel

Thu Jul-12-01 04:35 AM

  
72. "RE: Basically!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 5


          



I could up and leave now if someone gave me plane ticket or boat, don't really feel for them though, suming unsafe about them.

New york is where i'm heading, London is shit and basically trys to be New York, so why not hit there.

thats it, lost for words.......

Peace

  

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tohunga
Charter member
32612 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 12:48 PM

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9. "y'all should move here"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

my thatched hut has a T1 cable to the US. Booyakashah.



Whaia te maramatanga
Me te aroha e nga iwi
Kia ka tapatahi
Kia kotahi ra
Tatou tatou e

seek after knowledge
and fellowship all people
think as one
act as one
all of us

-"Tutira mai nga iwi"

_________________________
http://www.paulwalsh.co.nz
art.design.comics.blog.etc

  

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sandata
Charter member
647 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 04:55 PM

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14. "damn you gotta a hut?"
In response to Reply # 9


          

I thought you lived in a sheet metal shed. Excuse my american.

\\ SANDATA \\
]email: drylongsowhat@yahoo.com
]aim: wisedumb
]go here: http://www.youthec.org
--> Youth Empowerment Center <--
* SOUL (School of Unity & Liberation)
* Youth Force Coalition
* C-Beyond
* Lets Get Free (formerly Third Eye Movement)
* Underground Railroad
__________________________________
OKAYoungins Represent!!!!!!!
Giving you true youthful musical wisdom since 2000.
__________________________________
Boots: Ay man I got a disease
Eroc: Damn, what you catch?
Boots: It's called broke w/ no muthafuckin respect
-The Coup
__________________________________
***Sandata is the tagalog word for
weapon- referred to bolo-like knives
used for chores in the kitchen, but
can also be used to chop people's
heads off dpending on your intentions.

  

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tohunga
Charter member
32612 posts
Thu Jul-05-01 02:07 PM

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38. "lol!!!"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

I'M GONNA SCHOOL SOME HEADS NOW....
I remember reading a survey in high school that told us that, in a questionnaire, 30% of Americans knew where my country was, and the overwhelming majority of that 30% thought that we lived in huts in the forest, wearing grass skirts and tending to huge flocks of nomadic sheep. Welllll.....check this one time.

This is where i work.
http://photosoc.wellington.net.nz/cgi-bin/slideviewer.cgi?list=wellington&slide=7
(just to the left of the little 'bridge' in the centre, ground floor..)

another view of my city...
http://photosoc.wellington.net.nz/24hrs/p1_14.htm

and this is the area (Rotorua/Bay of Plenty) where i spent the first 17 years of my life...
http://www.vnz.co.nz/photos/volcanic/index.shtml

and here's an example of our local culture...
http://www.phunkrepublic.com/



LOOK and LEARN, peeps.

_________________________
http://www.paulwalsh.co.nz
art.design.comics.blog.etc

  

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Akh

Wed Jul-04-01 03:27 PM

  
10. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Yo! I was just talking about this with my pops and moms, lately Ive been thinking about becoming a resident citzen of Tunisia when I get to about my 40th or 50th year. The only reason I wouldnt leave out of America right now is because Im so attached to family and uplifting people out of the cancer and virus mindstate that this American "culture" gives out

  

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Akh

Wed Jul-04-01 03:28 PM

  
11. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 10


          

and Tunisia is 98% muslim!

  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 04:01 PM

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12. "Zimbabwe"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Internal strife notwithstanding, I believe my ancestors were Ndebele, so I would like to live there, and inculcate myself into the culture so I could learn firsthand about the Ndebele. My brother thinks we are Zulu though, and he might be right, so I would not mind living in the parts of Southern Africa which are indigenous to the Zulu either(South Africa, Botswana). I lived in that region for two months, and felt at home, even though I wasn't(traditional Afrikan culture states that home is where your mother lives). I was related to SOMEbody from up in that camp though. I could just FEEL it. So, if I lived abroad, I would want it to be there, or Jamaica. Why Jamaica? Because of the Rasta culture, of course! I'll be getting married there as well(I'm claiming it, so that I can manifest it!). I'll have to see about the living there part, but I would not pass up the opportunity if it presented itself, I'll tell you THAT.


As far as the Fourth of July, well, our independence days as Afrikan people in America are on January 1st(1865), and Juneteenth, so those are the days I celebrate. I enjoy the fireworks of the fourth though, and appreciate any opportunity to come home and hang out w/ my family and friends, when everyone is off from work and school and relaxed. That's about all the Fourth of July means to me.

paz.


"Next to God we are indebted to Afrikan women, first for
giving us life and secondly for making that life worth
living." -author unknown

"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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abduhu
Charter member
1734 posts
Thu Jul-05-01 03:44 AM

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20. "research your ancestors?"
In response to Reply # 12


          

I believe my
>ancestors were Ndebele................

>My
>brother thinks we are Zulu
>though, and he might be
>right.................

have you done any geneological research about your ancestors? if not, why not?

thats how you can TRY TO find out, although you MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be successful in doing so.

who is Prophet Muhammad -salla Allahu 'alaihi wa sallam (peace be upon him)? click here to read his biography:
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/

Narrated Aisha (Prophet Muhammad's wife):
The Prophet used to offer prayer at night (for such a long time) that his feet used to crack. I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Why do you do it since Allah has forgiven you your faults of the past and those to follow?" He said, "Shouldn't I love to be a thankful slave (of Allah)?' When he became old, he prayed while sitting, but if he wanted to perform a bowing, he wound get up, recite (some other verses) and then perform the bowing.

subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa attuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).


  

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ya Setshego
Charter member
4259 posts
Thu Jul-05-01 07:51 AM

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33. "Money."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

The websites I visited for geneaological(sp.) research cost money, and at the time, I did not have the disposable income to invest in such a project. Do you know of other more economical methods I might employ, or are you just giving me 'the business'?



"Next to God we are indebted to Afrikan women, first for
giving us life and secondly for making that life worth
living." -author unknown

"Don't Hate the PLAYA Boy...hate the GAME," Granddad Freeman of the Boondocks(7-11-99)

*Twenty-three percent of women are "autoerotic singles" — they prefer to achieve sexual satisfaction alone(source-bet.com)

*If U have won a Grammy, one of two things are at play: 1. Your shit is TIGHT
2. U are white
-(Me)

"'Cuz U answer the phone 'peace' that means U not a freak?"-The Questions(c) Common


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oooo baby I like it raw. Oooo baby I like it RAAAW!(c)ODB- Shimmy Shimmy Ya

  

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Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 10:47 PM

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67. "Use Ifa"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

HTP

There is a method of tracing one's geneaology through the Yoruba tradition of Ifa.

Go here for more information:
www.theancestralcall.com

PEace
Solarus

***Words of Wisdom***

"Every time you rise from your sleeping state, you have been reincarnated. Every time you recover from a bad experience, you have been reincarnated. Every time you have been given a new lease on life, you have been reincarnated. Every time you breath in and out, take in the fresh breath of life and feel the divine intelligence flowing in and around you, you have been reincarnated."- Mfundishi Bakari

On "love":

"I am in love everyday, whether I am with someone or not. Why? All love is based on a search for spirit. For me love is timeless, transcendent, peaceful, freeing, soul-based, unifying, and enhanced evolution. This is the basis of my activism."- Nettrice, the embodiment of Oshun

"Since we all make up the rules as we go along, love can mean many different things to many different people. But, for me love is a total commitment to understanding that is not limited to just people but is open to the totality of life. As long as we approach love from a fear based mentality and perceive it through veils of guardedness and anxiety, it will always be restricted by our fears."- Mfundishi Bakari

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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reefdogg
Charter member
2870 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 04:51 PM

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13. "hell no"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the ideals of the country are still very dear to me, even if the country does not quite live up to them (which begs another question: is it realistic to expect this capatilist society to REALLY completely live up to the declaration/consitution?)

we need people that can think and help this country reach those ideals to be in this country, not leave

i can't blame people for wanting to leave though

-------- B EZ ------------

IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

lil kids call me smokeymon ....

  

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Afroteck
Charter member
4590 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 04:56 PM

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15. "I'm going to England"
In response to Reply # 13


          

this summer. If I like it there I'll be sure to move there as soon as possible. I've seen the house of Commons, and at least English government is funny when they don't do anything right.



  

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sniffsmokeswallow

Wed Jul-04-01 07:47 PM

  
16. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

(this is my first post, hello, be nice)

When I travel I'm usually ashamed of telling people I'm American because they immediately assume I'm all about McDonalds and capitalism. American corporations invade every country possible and it just makes me sick. Also I think that based on other countries I've visited (only Japan and Spain) compared to America, the foreign people are more thoughtful and polite and care more about the artistic side of life (writing, music, art, you know) while in America that's either lost or injected with some sort of money-makingness.

As for being happy to come back to America...I was anxious to leave Japan because I was just not having a good time, I was staying with a family as a student-exchange program and they were a bunch of squares. The side of Japan I saw was really one-dimensional. And I felt like a complete outsider--little kids would come up and feel my skin and my hair and people would stare or a couple times people even took pictures of me. Which is ok, I guess, but weird. But when I went to Spain, I never wanted to come home. I loved it there, especially Barcelona. I'd love to live there. Or Chicago. I love them both.

Also I think in the beginning America knew what was up (except for the slavery thing, umm yeah that was a big minus) but the current politicians have completely disregarded the old values or implemented them in a fucked up twisted way.

that's all goodbye
rock
amber

  

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loryn
Charter member
14996 posts
Wed Jul-04-01 08:06 PM

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17. "um..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

probably London.

or perhaps Florence, Italy.

and if not there, then Namibia, because i have family there.

-loryn

"I love this land. I'm not crazy about the nation."--Alice Walker

I stopped combing my mind so my thoughts could lock--Saul Williams

i'm an okayoungin.

ask away http://www.formspring.me/elledub

http://www.loryncwilson.com

tweet me up: @elledub_1920

  

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Federisco
Charter member
5002 posts
Thu Jul-05-01 03:31 AM

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18. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Wasnt it a song that said
"Live in new york city once, but leave before it makes you hard. Live in new jersey(?) once but leave before it makes you too soft."

I was brought up in norway, but i have been in egypt and spain - now different cultures have got me. I want to live in another part of the earth, since i am lucky to have the opertunity to save money to travel.

Trinidad & tobago.. because of its multicultural people
Perhaps visit Zwaziland.. earthsista knows why
Haiti... because of Wyclef! (the people)
Cuba.. i will miss something special if i don't visit Cuba (the people)
Thailand... the food and the people
Mauritius... to see if it is as special as they say it is
Columbia... the people, carlos vives and my neighbour (he got a wife and son there now)
Egypt... my two weeks in the country were special, i want to return
España... i have lived there one year now, i want more! Que bueno país!
Brazil... the people!
Turkey.... visit marco

The list goes on

No, i wouldn't live anywhere else. i would live somewhere else Perhaps visit San Francisco or Chicago, but not live there.

I go for the culture and the people, i have seen enough american culture in my life. i grew up to Steve Urkel, Fresh Prince and Ricky Lake. Yes, in norway.. uff

i hope i one day will be in africa again, and that i one day will be in asia. I know nothing is impossible, specially today. Very cheap tickets to distant places are being sold on the day the plane leaves and ferries are getting cheaper as planes are getting more used.

No backpacker life for me, thou. i want to live one place, at least for a long time. What makes me like a people is how they treat others. Unfortunally that's a reason why i didnt put bronx on that list.. but that is another thread.

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Federisco
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Thu Jul-05-01 03:32 AM

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19. "sunscreen"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

I remember the son now, baz luhrman - sunscreen. strange song, a lá "how to live your life"..

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"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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Caesar Jay

Mon Jul-16-01 01:05 AM

  
88. "Yeah, that was a nice song"
In response to Reply # 18


          

And it was northern cali, not NJ.

AUT CAESAR AUT NULLUS
DUAL MOBILTIY IS COMING...Some day.

Fuck whats in the deck.

And to all yall that say my posts aren't educated, fuck yall too.

  

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JayThree
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Thu Jul-05-01 04:04 AM

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21. "The freedom of thought and lifestyle that Europeans..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...have adopted has always appealed to me. I often think that Americans live in cultural "boxes" that are rarely ventured out of. I am visiting London & Paris again in August... and I'm looking forward to experiencing the "freedom" and lack of stress I felt during my last visit.

However, I can't truly say that I'd want to MOVE there (I've had thoughts)... because, I can't truly determine that life would be any BETTER there. DIFFERENT, maybe... but not necessarily BETTER.

And, when you REALLY think about it... you can't say that Black people have it GOOD anywhere. I don't care where you go, there's ALWAYS negativity & discrimination -- even if it's subtle. And, in most other countries, TRUE opportunity is very limited -- regardless of race.

America may be nasty & vile in it's past & present treatment of our blacks.... but at least I have a FIGHTING chance at some form of opportunity despite my race or class level. And, let's not forget, there's nastiness & ignorance everywhere -- all over this earth.

  

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Federisco
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Thu Jul-05-01 04:21 AM

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22. "RE: The freedom of thought and lifestyle that Europeans..."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

>However, I can't truly say that
>I'd want to MOVE there
>(I've had thoughts)... because, I
>can't truly determine that life
>would be any BETTER there.
> DIFFERENT, maybe... but not
>necessarily BETTER.

Yep, i noticed that when i moved to spain. I thought it would be better.. it isn't necessarily better, but it sure is different. Some things are better, others arent. I got beaten up in spain, that havent happened to me before. Friends take drugs in school, in spain. I didn't get any spanish friends, in spain.

>And, when you REALLY think about
>it... you can't say that
>Black people have it GOOD
>anywhere. I don't care
>where you go, there's ALWAYS
>negativity & discrimination -- even
>if it's subtle.

But.. africa? brazil? or haiti?!

Yes, people who are negative against others because of opinions, that will always be with us. But people who discriminate because of race, not everywhere.

>let's not forget, there's nastiness
>& ignorance everywhere -- all
>over this earth.

Not with all people thou, i have learned that now. Find your people, even if it is a small group.. that seems to be what will help.

I think you can find your people (opinions, not race) in most parts of this world. In my little seaside village (which is invaded by travellers in the summer), an iranean man runs the most popular meeting/eating/drinking place. He plays gipsy kings, iranean music, flamenco, he have had african drummers. Everybody loves him and his place.

There must be a place for everyone in most places, even in a small village in norway. Another man, half african/asian who lived in brazil, now runs the local gallery here.

But will you get nastiness and ignorance from your people if you find your roots in africa? (i am reading roots no )

Ahhh I like talking about this

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

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"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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JayThree
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Thu Jul-05-01 04:43 AM

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23. "Africa, being a continent...."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

...has many countries within... and yes, racism against blacks exists -- and has existed. I'm sure you're familiar with the former state of Apartheid in South Africa.

Then there's the racial hatred that's not about skin color, but tribal differences -- the Hutu's and the Tutsi's... the massacre in Rwanda (just to name two).

Then there's the mass exodus from Haiti that occurred when Haitians were being slaughtered left & right. Haitians on flimsy rafts and broken-down boats were drowning in large groups... trying to float their way to America.

Don't get me wrong... I'm aware that there are MANY places one can go where there is no THREAT of racism (there are places right here in my own city where that is the case). However, the "racist" factor exists EVERYWHERE. And, sad to say, the mindset is usually directed towards the "darker" races.

My point is... you're never going to be completely free from ignorance in society... but you may be able to properly distance yourself from it -- so that you don't have to DEAL with it on a constant, face-to-face basis. HOWEVER, that seperation can be acheived without having to move to a different country. AND, just because you move to a different, free-er(sp) country doesn't mean that you WON'T have to deal with it. Nahmean??

  

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Federisco
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27. "Differences"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

mmh, i get it. When i said africa i thought about the part of africa you come from.

If you ignore differences yourself, will others treat you so? What you give you will get?

In the beginning of Roots, kunta keeps thinking about differences.. When he sits outside on lookout in the night he sees a Fulani man guarding his cows holding a light, in the horizon. And it made him think about how many differences there had to be, even from his village to the neighbour village. And he remembered when he visited his uncles' new village he saw people with strange customs and languages - even from his own country gandia(?!).

I didnt know about the mass exodus from haiti
And i forgot about tribal wars. That will always be. Is it so that it just seems more extreme when it is black/white or french/gipsy? But in reality it is the same as zulus/zwazi (in the old days) and the other tribal wars throughout the different continets?

What helps us the most is to accept differences, no..? learn from it.. (some cultures are better at it than others.)

Wyclef takes his own shortcut, he simply says all are people and all cultures can mix in a big party, The Carnival! I saw the man last night at a helluva show! It was wild, people loved him and i think he loved the people. He even helped a norwegian girl with a singing talent get a carreer, he had her sing mary j blidge's part of 911. Wyclef said "I get down in brooklyn and i get down in norway!", and when he said that the crowd got wild. He gave respect and got respect.

Hehe, he also said "I've been to england, germany, belgium, stockholm and amsterdam, but there's no place like kristiansand" (the city he was in)..and he made up a song right there and then: "norway - numero uno". He gave much, he showed very much respect (almost too much), and that made the crowd love him.

Give and get.. and it works with wyclef The show got a 6 on the dice and the reviewers said the show could have gone on till the break of dawn, literally. He also performed Redemption song, no woman no cry, diallo. It must have left an impression in the crowd.

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

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"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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JayThree
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Thu Jul-05-01 06:44 AM

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30. "You seem as if..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

...you've been very moved by your reading of Roots; which is good. I've seen you post about it in discussion of mulitiple subjects.

My family has traced their "roots" (which was a very involved project that lasted a few years)... only to find out that the black branch of the family stems from indentured (sp) servants that travelled from the West Indies to Virginia VERY soon after the Europeans began to "settle" on the land -- working off their servitude within 15 years.

Those findings can be considered inconclusive -- because the West Indies was a huge center for trade... especially slave and "human" trade after America began to establish itself; which means they could have been just "passing through" and could actually have come from parts of Africa. There is a slight possibility that they could have actually been West Indian. Who knows?? No documentation can be found that supports anything different.

Anyhow, the whole ordeal just made me realize how AMERICAN I truly am... and how much this country owns my ancestry. Therefore, I again come to the conclusion that life in another country isn't exactly a panacea for me.

  

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Federisco
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Thu Jul-05-01 12:00 PM

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36. "RE: You seem as if..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I have just started reading it, i realized i needed it. my family has kept the book for many years, it is about time. And i enjoy it. Unfortunally i enjoyed the first 100 pages where Kunta lived in Juffure very much, the slave trade is the total opposite.

But it is supposed to be so. Thank you, I think it is good i read it too, it is important. But i try not to forget about the other cultures there is as well, it isnt just black/white.. But i start with roots.

I'm glad you found at least more of your roots.

I respect why you choose to live in USA.. that's it, peace

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"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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Caesar Jay

Mon Jul-16-01 01:09 AM

  
89. "RE: The freedom of thought and lifestyle that Europeans..."
In response to Reply # 22


          


>Yep, i noticed that when i
>moved to spain. I thought
>it would be better.. it
>isn't necessarily better, but it
>sure is different. Some things
>are better, others arent. I
>got beaten up in spain,
>that havent happened to me
>before. Friends take drugs in
>school, in spain. I didn't
>get any spanish friends, in
>spain.

Yeah, Spain is dangeourous for people who do not wear a polo shirt with the spanish flag on it and tight jeans. Fuckin fachas! I know a shitload of Spanish people who take drugs in school. AND EVERYONE DOES GRAF! EVERYONE. PERIOD! And its hard as hell to get a gun, so I have to fend off 5 nazis with a butterfly knife. Spain is dangeourous for a hip hop head.


AUT CAESAR AUT NULLUS
DUAL MOBILTIY IS COMING...Some day.

Fuck whats in the deck.

And to all yall that say my posts aren't educated, fuck yall too.

  

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NoShelter
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Thu Jul-05-01 04:47 AM

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24. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yo I was thinking about livin in Italy since that's the only country i've been to outside here and Canada, but they are mad racist there to. The fans were booing black and Jewish players on there on soccer team whenever they touched the ball. Despite what the US has done, few countries are better when concerened with race relations
----------------------------------------
I am my own person, I fit no stereotypes, I am a demographic of one.

No Goes to Hooters for wings. -Chris Rock

He Looks hurt pretty bad.......... Let's Get out of Here!
-Lenny & Carl

  

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tohunga
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Thu Jul-05-01 01:42 PM

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37. "ha"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Despite
>what the US has done,
>few countries are better when
>concerened with race relations
>----------------------------------------


haha. We are.



Whaia te maramatanga
Me te aroha e nga iwi
Kia ka tapatahi
Kia kotahi ra
Tatou tatou e

seek after knowledge
and fellowship all people
think as one
act as one
all of us

-"Tutira mai nga iwi"

_________________________
http://www.paulwalsh.co.nz
art.design.comics.blog.etc

  

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guerilla_love
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Thu Jul-05-01 04:51 AM

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25. "uh huh,"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i've heard that from so many people; that they coudn't wait to come back home after their trips, but i've never gotten that sense before. i would like to live in any of the countries i've visited and hope i get a chance to move around one day-

helps, i suppose, that my dad lives in another country and my in-laws are scattered about and my husband and many of our friends are from/in other countries

which is not to say that i think that any place is better or worse than any other. they're all just different, and there's a few realities that people deal with in some other countries (one random but fresh example: a friend of mine was stopped by the police in the ethiopian countryside because of his dreadlocks. the police told him "if we see you again with that hair, we will kill you.")

life can be a lot less convenient and a lot less safe in less developed countries. and my citygirl physique was not made for machete yardwork and build your own houses. but i would be interested to see if i could learn to hack it.


==**peace**==

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

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HashimAbdulKhaliq
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Thu Jul-05-01 05:06 AM

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26. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>Okay, so it's Independence Day here
>in the United States, and
>on 1st thought I say
>I couldn't care less.
>As a Black man, I
>have a hard time celebrating
>this country b/c of all
>the things my ppl have
>suffered at the hands of
>this government and many of
>the nation's private citizens as
>well. Not to mention
>the atrocities this nation is
>responsible for around the world.
> The situation is definitely
>fucked up...and I'm not about
>to wave any stars and
>stripes today, thank you.
>

I dont think that Independance Day is for Us. Just because America is free doesnt mean that we are. Physical slavery is not in effect but I think allot of us still have some Slave carryover mentalities to snuff out. I agree totally for a Black Person to break out the stars and stripes aint sweet at all.

My Imam (spiritual leader) has travelled abroad many times. He spent various months all over North Africa (Sudan, Egypt, Tunisia, and Morocco). He's also spent allot time in France. One thing that he said is that Women love African Americam men. In France he said there is area where many Muslims chill at. So there are Muslims from all over the globe there. You can tell where someone is from by looking at them. You know who a African is. You know a European they are white. You know who a Moroccan or a Tunisian is, they look mixed. When people see African American's we are mixed with like 3 different things. This intrigues foreigners. Basically, foreign women like brothas.

I say this myself when I made Hajj. Whenever we (Me and some other African American brothas )walked past some Asain sisters they were looking at us like we were stars or something. I felt like I could just have my pick of any of them. It was ill. I told my Imam about this, he said Japanese women love black dudes.

Why am I saying all this. Just look how white people and foreigners in America try to treat us. They try to treat us like crap. Its just Ironic that abroad a brotha can get some love.

If I stepped anywhere lese I would mellow out to The United Arab Emirates (UAE). Its a nice developed spot.

I would also look into Malaysia, Singapore or Indonesia. Maybe I'll run into some of those Asain women that was halking us at Hajj.

Morocco is sweet too. I've been invited to go to Sudan. When I made hajj many people thought I was from Sudan or South Africa. I would love to checkk all these spots out. Maybe later on in life I might move.


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenship
into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword.

It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.
And w

  

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Elixir

Fri Jul-06-01 06:56 AM

  
42. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 26


          

this was a very well said post. all the places you mention sound fantastic.

brothers don't have to leave though. most sisters still love yall.

  

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REDeye
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Thu Jul-05-01 05:16 AM

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28. "ANYWHERE but here!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

man I can't wait to raise the fuck up outta here.

South of France is the dream. Or Spain. Italy has been suggested, but I've never been there.

Brazil has been on the mind, though that's a bit harsher.

London, yeah, I'd do it in a heart beat.

BUT

I'd never give up my U.S. citizenship. Too many advantages.

Still, I've found more places I'd like to live OUT of the states than in the states. Here, Seattle is tops, followed closely by the Bay Area. The rest of the U.S. just doesn't appeal to me, though I could easily adapt to anywhere in this increasingly homogeneous and homogenized country.

RED
I'm afraid to let my self go.
It hasn't yet memorized its way home.

RED
http://arrena.blogspot.com

  

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HotThyng76
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Thu Jul-12-01 05:09 AM

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73. "US citizenship"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

My US Passport is SO important to me. I'll never ever give it up.

Ever.

_______________________

  

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JMello

Fri Jul-13-01 01:07 PM

  
82. "Back from Brazil"
In response to Reply # 28


          

>man I can't wait to raise
>the fuck up outta here.
>
>
>South of France is the dream.
>Or Spain. Italy has been
>suggested, but I've never been
>there.
>
>Brazil has been on the mind,
>though that's a bit harsher.

I just got back from Brazil. One week in Rio and one in Salvador. The poverty is a little overwhelming, but it is beautiful. The racial situation is very hard to figure out. All shades of people mingle on the streets and residential segregation is minimal, but those on power are significantly lighter than the poor. I saw no blatant diplays of racism though.

You need to go now, the Real is only worth US 39 cents. Almost an all time low. A pack of smokes was 60 cents and a beer was only 80 cents. I ate a huge meal for US$1.10 (ignoring the cockroaches I had to beat off my plate). See www.transbrasil.com.br for cheap flights from Miami or Orlando. You can live down there for US$5-20 per day.

JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

  

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Caesar Jay

Mon Jul-16-01 01:15 AM

  
90. "Dont go to Spain"
In response to Reply # 28


          

Because there are no black people. And about 50 percent of tha people are facists, and will jump u at any chance. Im white and i get jumped at least once a week. Just cuz i rock baggy pants and a gold cruxifix.

AUT CAESAR AUT NULLUS
DUAL MOBILTIY IS COMING...Some day.

Fuck whats in the deck.

And to all yall that say my posts aren't educated, fuck yall too.

  

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peace3
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31620 posts
Thu Jul-05-01 06:29 AM

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29. "HELL YES!! THERE"S SO MUCH MORE THAN AMERICA"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I've been thinkin about leavin this country since the 9th grade.
lol
Plan to be out before 40 years old. Sun-Ra Willing

"There's so much more in life for you to feel/Unfound in white red and blue pilss."--Stevie WOnder "Bird of Beauty"

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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Bombshell
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Thu Jul-05-01 06:48 AM

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31. "Nope"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I'd love to travel and whatnot, but America is home ground. A lot of people find it odd that I am so nationalistic. I am. I am very very very nationalistic. I hate when people say bad things about America. It makes me want to say "for the very reason that you're allowed to say that you hate America, you should love America." I'm not sure many people would get my point though. I absolutely love America. Not because I think that it's the best place to live for everyone, because the thing that I think is most important is the foundation for our country. I think that liberty and freedom are the greatest things to possess. I realize not everyone possesses them, but this is one of the few countries where if you do not possess them you can speak up, you can fight, you take action. and even if your dreams will not be realized in your lifetime with the ideals that are the basis for the country, hopefully someday they will be.

"Me fail english? That's unpossible!"

Jesus smited my signature!

  

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reefdogg
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Thu Jul-05-01 06:59 AM

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32. "exactly!"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

It
>makes me want to say
>"for the very reason that
>you're allowed to say that
>you hate America, you should
>love America." I'm not sure
>many people would get my
>point though.

i feel you on this point 100% - many people take it for granted

-------- B EZ ------------

IM and ICQ name: reefdogg1 (number one at the end)

lil kids call me smokeymon ....

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 07:26 AM

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43. "RE: Nope"
In response to Reply # 31


          

>I'd love to travel and whatnot,
>but America is home ground.
>A lot of people find
>it odd that I am
>so nationalistic. I am. I
>am very very very nationalistic.
>I hate when people say
>bad things about America.


Sorry Bombshell but this is backwards culture. Going against the land. Nothing against this continent, this land (North America) which is so precious, but Muthasuckaz don't know what to do with such a gift. How to make a marriage with the land...Like our Native American Forefathers (Those are the true American Forefathers), fuck George Washington and the rest of those Gay Masonic Satanists. Lol Shits WILD!!!
It
>makes me want to say
>"for the very reason that
>you're allowed to say that
>you hate America, you should
>love America."

I love every atom in the Universe. But not this Country.

I'm not sure
>many people would get my
>point though. I absolutely love
>America. Not because I think
>that it's the best place
>to live for everyone, because
>the thing that I think
>is most important is the
>foundation for our country.

Okay let's go over that culture. Murder/Deceit/Brute Force/total disrespect/genocide/sick culture/excessive & self-destructive culture
There's your foundation!!

>think that liberty and freedom
>are the greatest things to
>possess.

Yes but the only place that can give you true liberty and freedom is within yourself. Not some Docuement or some devil saying "HEY!! YOUR FREEEE!!"

I realize not everyone
>possesses them, but this is
>one of the few countries
>where if you do not
>possess them you can speak
>up, you can fight, you
>take action.

And if you speak the truth too lound you get killed. Ask Malcolm, Martin, Medgar Evars, Fred Hampton...the list is ill should I keep going?

and even if
>your dreams will not be
>realized in your lifetime with
>the ideals that are the
>basis for the country, hopefully
>someday they will be.
>
Hopefully someday I can watch the Whitehouse burn to the ground and have a fish fry.

"FUCK THE GOVAMENT!!/I CAUSE ACCIDENTS

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

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Bombshell
Charter member
1239 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 08:47 AM

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47. "If you don't like it, leave"
In response to Reply # 43


          

or do something about it. Nobody is forcing you to be an American. Nobody is forcing you to live in America. Don't like it? Leave it. Don't want to leave? Then appreciate the reasons you don't want to leave... and do something to CHANGE the things you dislike. Don't sit on your ass and complain. You have a voice and you have a choice. If you don't want to ACTIVELY be American, then leave America. Do you have any idea how many people would give their right leg to live here??? I think you are ungrateful... why don't you move to Tijuana or Afghanistan. These places where people live in poverty, or people live without basic human rights.

> It
>>makes me want to say
>>"for the very reason that
>>you're allowed to say that
>>you hate America, you should
>>love America."
>
>I love every atom in the
>Universe. But not this
>Country.
Then leave this country and make space for someone who will appreciate it.

>I'm not sure
>>many people would get my
>>point though. I absolutely love
>>America. Not because I think
>>that it's the best place
>>to live for everyone, because
>>the thing that I think
>>is most important is the
>>foundation for our country.
>
>Okay let's go over that culture.
> Murder/Deceit/Brute Force/total disrespect/genocide/sick culture/excessive
>& self-destructive culture
>There's your foundation!!
I've nowhere stated that America is a perfect country, but the ideals... the ideals that the country was founded on are something that EVERY human deserves and can respect. Just because those ideals aren't a complete reality doesn't make them not worth fighting for or invalid.

>>think that liberty and freedom
>>are the greatest things to
>>possess.
>
>Yes but the only place that
>can give you true
>liberty and freedom is within
>yourself. Not some Docuement
>or some devil saying "HEY!!
>YOUR FREEEE!!"
That document is the only thing seperating you, better yet, PROTECTING you from losing every right, like the right of free speech, you know that right that allows you to go on the computer and talk about how much you HATE America? Well, move to Iraq... print something about how much you dislike your country and get shot.

> I realize not everyone
>>possesses them, but this is
>>one of the few countries
>>where if you do not
>>possess them you can speak
>>up, you can fight, you
>>take action.
>
>And if you speak the truth
>too lound you get killed.
> Ask Malcolm, Martin, Medgar
>Evars, Fred Hampton...the list is
>ill should I keep going?
So does that mean the truth should not be spoken? The truth is WORTH DYING FOR. Maybe your truths aren't, mine are. You should evaluate your own beliefs before calling out the names of great men.

> and even if
>>your dreams will not be
>>realized in your lifetime with
>>the ideals that are the
>>basis for the country, hopefully
>>someday they will be.
>>
>Hopefully someday I can watch the
>Whitehouse burn to the ground
>and have a fish fry.
>"FUCK THE GOVAMENT!!/I CAUSE ACCIDENTS
SInce you so obviously hate the government, what are YOU doing to change it? What positive actions have you taken to make a difference in this unlivable country that you've been so begrudging forced to reap the benefits from?


"Me fail english? That's unpossible!"

Jesus smited my signature!

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 10:20 AM

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49. "I Plan too all of the above."
In response to Reply # 47


          

First let me say you gotta be some poedunk livin out in Corn Husk,Wyoming. lol
Sorry that was rude. I apologize. 4 real

But really is that the only thing you can come back at me with
"That ole 1950 patriotic/Redscare crap 'Love it or Leave it'
lol
Americans are the most foolish people on the planet.
We have the minds of children. Any little flash or whatever to catch our eye and we are hypnotized. Easily pacified. Eeager for narcotic like lies to ease the pain.
Do ever watch National Geographic or any "Educational T.V." and see how indigenous people react to our "Technology"? They think most of our shit is stupid. And they're right. It's all excess. Home of the slave land of the excessively sick. I'm caught in it too.


>or do something about it. Nobody
>is forcing you to be
>an American. Nobody is forcing
>you to live in America.
>Don't like it? Leave it.
>Don't want to leave? Then
>appreciate the reasons you don't
>want to leave...

WHAT? Appreciate the fact that we have to PAY just to be alive? Appreciate that the only way to live comfortabley is blind myself to truth and make it my enemy? lol
Ya'll Crackaz, Patriotic types, hippies,rednecks/uncle Toms (yeah you Jack & Jill Bougie Ninjaz) be crrraaackin me up!!
You gotta be white. Ya'll have no sense of TRUE Reality.
Ya'll really think your superiority is clearly meant to be.
YOU are telling us that you know our reality better than we know it. WTF!!!!!
I'm gonna calm myself and get back to being enslaved.
peaces
lol
and do
>something to CHANGE the things
>you dislike. Don't sit on
>your ass and complain. You
>have a voice and you
>have a choice. If you
>don't want to ACTIVELY be
>American, then leave America. Do
>you have any idea how
>many people would give their
>right leg to live here???
>I think you are ungrateful...

Who ever you are. I wake up everymorning and give thanks for being. I love each day of my life. I don't need America to feel like this. I'm sure there are people who live in poverty and have this same feeling as I. America provides us with a false sense of reality/comfort. I can't stress that enough. Did you ever see the movie Gladiator, and How the Emperor (Son of Caesar who killed his own father) brought back Gladiator "SPORTS" to keep the people occupied and pacified because there was no war (like America. See Survivor, Real World, Caught on Camera, Reality TV, etc.), and the Emperor didn't know how the fuck to govern the people properley. EVEN IN THE BEGINNING THE FATHER SAW THE FUTILITY of their EUROPEAN system of governing. His question was basically WHY? Don't you see how this equates to our country? The ROME of Modern times?
The MONUEMENT IS IN YOUR FACE!!!!

>why don't you move to
>Tijuana or Afghanistan.

I'll move to Tijuana I'm half mexican grrringa!

These places
>where people live in poverty,
>or people live without basic
>human rights.
>
>Then leave this country and make
>space for someone who will
>appreciate it.
I will walk anywhwere on this planet! The earth is my home.
Fuck what you've been told. "Planet Home/I wanna go there/If only we can make it right!"
That's my attitude. I'm pushing towards true freedom. Free from the false realities in front of your eyes!
>
>>
>>There's your foundation!!
>I've nowhere stated that America is
>a perfect country, but the
>ideals... the ideals

The ideals are distorted/unclear/and I think the constitution still states that blacks are 3/4 human. That has yet to be ratified (But like the devils give a what, and like it really matters. I know who I am, and what glory has created me and dwells within me.
that the
>country was founded on are
>something that EVERY human deserves
>and can respect. Just because
>those ideals aren't a complete
>reality doesn't make them not
>worth fighting for or invalid.
>
>
>That document is the only thing
>seperating you, better yet, PROTECTING
>you from losing every right,
>like the right of free
>speech, you know that right
>that allows you to go
>on the computer and talk
>about how much you HATE
>America?

I'll go anywhere and talk about my disgust for America.
Well, move to Iraq...Cool. That'd be different.

>print something about how much
>you dislike your country and
>get shot.
Shit I'll get shot here!!
Why go to Iraq! I'd probably get shot if I went to your hillbilly community (even if you are black or whatever) and started talkin about Rednecks/and faggot ass biggots. It's real baby It is Real! But you know what I'm willing to get shot. Your just mad cause I'm the type of person to disrupt your false sense of American reality. Where everythings kosher we just have to work on it some more. "That I have a dream" Slogan. Yeah we do have to work on it, but we have to work within ourselves. We don't look within though. We look everywhere else except.
>
>>And if you speak the truth
>>too lound you get killed.
>> Ask Malcolm, Martin, Medgar
>>Evars, Fred Hampton...the list is
>>ill should I keep going?
>So does that mean the truth
>should not be spoken? The
>truth is WORTH DYING FOR.
>Maybe your truths aren't, mine
>are. You should evaluate your
>own beliefs before calling out
>the names of great men.

LOL
What the hell are you talking about? Evaluate MY belieFS!!!
THESE BRUTHAS ARE THE REASON I BELIEVE IN WHAT I DO!!!
you are killing me.
You know what? Let one who is content with their ignorance, wallow in it. I've tried my best to be courteous but I have obviously not done a good job. Forgive me. But your killing me here.
>
>
>SInce you so obviously hate the
>government, what are YOU doing
>to change it? What positive
>actions have you taken to
>make a difference in this
>unlivable country that you've been
>so begrudging forced to reap
>the benefits from?

"On the Inside he was dead/and this is what he said/AS HE TOOK AWAY THE BLUE FROM OUT THE CLOUDS!!/SUPERIORITY WAS CLEARLY MEANT TO BE!"--Jamiroquai-I like this white boy betta than that new brutha out of England. That brutha ain't sayin a daaaaayum thaang!!!


"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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Bombshell
Charter member
1239 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 11:01 AM

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55. "RE: I Plan too all of the above."
In response to Reply # 49


          

>First let me say you gotta
>be some poedunk livin out
>in Corn Husk,Wyoming. lol
>Sorry that was rude. I
>apologize. 4 real
This is your first incorrect assumption from this post.

>But really is that the only
>thing you can come back
>at me with
>"That ole 1950 patriotic/Redscare crap 'Love
>it or Leave it'
>lol

Why not leave it? Why do you stay? That's what I want to know. If you're so disgusted by this country why do you stay? If you aint part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

>Americans are the most foolish people
>on the planet.
>We have the minds of children.
> Any little flash or
>whatever to catch our eye
>and we are hypnotized. Easily
>pacified. Eeager for narcotic
>like lies to ease the
>pain.
And like a child, America will learn. America IS indeed a child, young in comparison to other nations.

>Do ever watch National Geographic or
>any "Educational T.V." and
>see how indigenous people react
>to our "Technology"? They
>think most of our shit
>is stupid. And they're
>right. It's all excess.
> Home of the slave
>land of the excessively sick.
> I'm caught in it
>too.
Yes, you obviously are. Ranting about the evils of technology while sitting at your computer. You speak on things you don't live. You are a hypocrite. Now it's quite corny to quote the matrix, i know... But "there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path" I walk my path, you watch yours pass you by. If you believe it, live it.


>>or do something about it. Nobody
>>is forcing you to be
>>an American. Nobody is forcing
>>you to live in America.
>>Don't like it? Leave it.
>>Don't want to leave? Then
>>appreciate the reasons you don't
>>want to leave...
>
>WHAT? Appreciate the fact that
>we have to PAY just
>to be alive? Appreciate
>that the only way to
>live comfortabley is blind myself
>to truth and make it
>my enemy? lol
>Ya'll Crackaz, Patriotic types, hippies,rednecks/uncle Toms
>(yeah you Jack & Jill
>Bougie Ninjaz) be crrraaackin me
>up!!
>You gotta be white. Ya'll
>have no sense of TRUE
>Reality.
>Ya'll really think your superiority is
>clearly meant to be.
>YOU are telling us that you
>know our reality better than
>we know it. WTF!!!!!
Your second incorrect assumption of the post.

>I'm gonna calm myself and get
>back to being enslaved.
>peaces
>lol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> and do
>>something to CHANGE the things
>>you dislike. Don't sit on
>>your ass and complain. You
>>have a voice and you
>>have a choice. If you
>>don't want to ACTIVELY be
>>American, then leave America. Do
>>you have any idea how
>>many people would give their
>>right leg to live here???
>>I think you are ungrateful...
>
>Who ever you are. I wake
>up everymorning and give thanks
>for being. I love
>each day of my life.
> I don't need America
>to feel like this.
>I'm sure there are people
>who live in poverty and
>have this same feeling as
>I. America provides us
>with a false sense of
>reality/comfort. I can't stress
>that enough. Did you
>ever see the movie Gladiator,
>and How the Emperor (Son
>of Caesar who killed his
>own father) brought back Gladiator
>"SPORTS" to keep the people
>occupied and pacified because there
>was no war (like America.
> See Survivor, Real World,
>Caught on Camera, Reality TV,
>etc.), and the Emperor didn't
>know how the fuck to
>govern the people properley.
>EVEN IN THE BEGINNING THE
>FATHER SAW THE FUTILITY of
>their EUROPEAN system of governing.
> His question was basically
>WHY? Don't you see
>how this equates to our
>country? The ROME of
>Modern times?
>The MONUEMENT IS IN YOUR FACE!!!!
Yes, yes, yes fine. I don't have any problem with you believing in whatever it is you believe in. I have a problem with you being the PACIFIST. You do nothing to try and facilitate change. You say it's fucked up, but oh well. You say technology is evil, stupid, wrong, excess, but you don't live by your own code.

>>why don't you move to
>>Tijuana or Afghanistan.
>
>I'll move to Tijuana I'm half
>mexican grrringa!
Have you ever been to Tijuana? I'm talking on the border tj, not further south. Have you ever SEEN the CHILDREN that beg the tourists for money at 3 oclock in the morning in their tattered clothes? Have you ever seen the women curled up in a corner living on the street?

>These places
>>where people live in poverty,
>>or people live without basic
>>human rights.
>>
>>Then leave this country and make
>>space for someone who will
>>appreciate it.
>I will walk anywhwere on this
>planet! The earth is
>my home.
>Fuck what you've been told.
>"Planet Home/I wanna go there/If
>only we can make it
>right!"
>That's my attitude. I'm pushing
>towards true freedom. Free
>from the false realities in
>front of your eyes!



>>>There's your foundation!!
>>I've nowhere stated that America is
>>a perfect country, but the
>>ideals... the ideals
>
>The ideals are distorted/unclear/and I think
>the constitution still states that
>blacks are 3/4 human.
>That has yet to be
>ratified (But like the devils
>give a what, and like
>it really matters. I
>know who I am, and
>what glory has created me
>and dwells within me.
and you don't think that you should strive to make your personal reality, a reality for those who aren't so 'blessed'?

> that the
>>country was founded on are
>>something that EVERY human deserves
>>and can respect. Just because
>>those ideals aren't a complete
>>reality doesn't make them not
>>worth fighting for or invalid.
>>
>>
>>That document is the only thing
>>seperating you, better yet, PROTECTING
>>you from losing every right,
>>like the right of free
>>speech, you know that right
>>that allows you to go
>>on the computer and talk
>>about how much you HATE
>>America?
>
>I'll go anywhere and talk about
>my disgust for America.
> Well, move to Iraq...Cool.
>That'd be different.
That's not what I menat, I meant go to Iraq and talk about how much you hate Iraq.
>>print something about how much
>>you dislike your country and
>>get shot.

>Shit I'll get shot here!!
YOU'RE NOT BEING SHOT RIGHT NOW, ARE YOU??? You are expressing your rights to free speech, something you won't get all over the earth.

>Why go to Iraq! I'd
>probably get shot if I
>went to your hillbilly community
>(even if you are black
>or whatever) and started talkin
>about Rednecks/and faggot ass biggots.
"faggot ass bigots" that statement in and of itself is hypocritical. My community is far from hillbilly, your third incorrect assumption.

>It's real baby It is
>Real! But you know
>what I'm willing to get
>shot. Your just mad
>cause I'm the type of
>person to disrupt your false
>sense of American reality.

I'm not mad at all, don't confuse a lively debate with anger. I, unlike you, haven't insulted anyone or made any incorrect assumptions.

>Where everythings kosher we just
>have to work on it
>some more. "That I
>have a dream" Slogan. Yeah
>we do have to work
>on it, but we have
>to work within ourselves.
>We don't look within though.
> We look everywhere else
>except.
Do you expect perfection with one stroke of the pen? Everything needs to be worked on... from Republican government to village government. Nothing works perfectly. The struggle to make a better life will not come quickly, easily or without sacrifice. You said it yourself, America is a child. It will take decades, centuries, eons to make it a better place... but you should still try.

I look plenty within... I am content in my truths/beliefs/ideals.
> >>And if you speak the truth
>>>too lound you get killed.
>>> Ask Malcolm, Martin, Medgar
>>>Evars, Fred Hampton...the list is
>>>ill should I keep going?
>>So does that mean the truth
>>should not be spoken? The
>>truth is WORTH DYING FOR.
>>Maybe your truths aren't, mine
>>are. You should evaluate your
>>own beliefs before calling out
>>the names of great men.
>
>LOL
>What the hell are you talking
>about? Evaluate MY belieFS!!!

I'm talking about how these men sang from clifftops about what they believed, the faced danger and ultimately death for their truths. The believed so strongly they were willing to DIE for it. I'm talking about being scared to "speak the truth too loudly", Because the risk is death should the truth go unspoken?

>THESE BRUTHAS ARE THE REASON I
>BELIEVE IN WHAT I DO!!!
>
>you are killing me.
>You know what? Let one
>who is content with their
>ignorance, wallow in it.
Indeed.
>I've tried my best to
>be courteous but I have
>obviously not done a good
>job. Forgive me.
>But your killing me here.
>
>>
>>
>>SInce you so obviously hate the
>>government, what are YOU doing
>>to change it? What positive
>>actions have you taken to
>>make a difference in this
>>unlivable country that you've been
>>so begrudging forced to reap
>>the benefits from?

You still haven't answered my 2 questions... Are your truths and beliefs worth dying for? and what are you doing to change America for the better??

>
>"On the Inside he was dead/and
>this is what he said/AS
>HE TOOK AWAY THE BLUE
>FROM OUT THE CLOUDS!!/SUPERIORITY WAS
>CLEARLY MEANT TO BE!"--Jamiroquai-I like
>this white boy betta than
>that new brutha out of
>England. That brutha ain't
>sayin a daaaaayum thaang!!!
craig david? he ain't _that_ bad...

"Me fail english? That's unpossible!"

Jesus smited my signature!

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 11:32 AM

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57. "BOMBSHELL -"BOOOOM!!""
In response to Reply # 55


          

How are you gonna make all of these assumptions. You're not attacking my arguement, you're attacking me. You don't even know me. You don't know that I've been a National Representative for California iN the NAACP. I use to talk to Ben Chavis (b4 he turned Moslem. The NAACP neva did like him.) I've mentored in elementary schools in SouthWest Atlanta, Georgia (the slums baby). You don't know that I have family ties to Caesar Chavez, and that my mother marched with the man. YOu don't know that I build with an Aunt who is a judge in Los Angeles who keeps me up on current events and politics (poly meaning many/tics meaning blood sucking creatures). I'm tuned into the 360th degree, I'm tuned into the 360th degree!!
YOU DON"T KNOW THAT I AM GATHERING OKAY ACTIVISTS ON THE WEST COAST TO BEGIN A TRUE ACTIVIST GROUP.
Hell yeah I'm on the computer!! I gotta get paid so I can leave this country!! But you know what, this cespool still won't be rid of me. I'll raise my children to be everything that America was suppose to be and beyond it. All the pettyness of this western civilization!! What now Bombshell? What Now. I'm all up in the BIG MELTING POT!! I am one who is one with all things. Believe me I know about technology. Shit I live in the Silicon Valley. These crackaz ain't got us in mind in terms of their plans for the future. I mean scientists have put up an WHYBIOTECH.com site to lie to people about the dangers of bio-technology. Know self, then know who you're speaking To.
I mean your admirable though.

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

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Bombshell
Charter member
1239 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 11:54 AM

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58. "riiiiiiiiiiiiight"
In response to Reply # 57


          

>How are you gonna make all
>of these assumptions.
Wait, wait, wait.. back up a moment. YOU'RE the one who assumed I was from hillbilly land. You're the one who assumed I was white. I haven't assumed thing one about you.

You're
>not attacking my arguement, you're
>attacking me. You don't
>even know me.
Indeed, I do not know you, so I cannot attack you. I can only see from your type where you'd use something like "faggot ass bigots" and construe from that statement that you are a hypocrite. I can only see from your type that you denounce technology yet you use it to make your life better.


You
>don't know that I've been
>a National Representative for California
>iN the NAACP. I
>use to talk to Ben
>Chavis (b4 he turned Moslem.
> The NAACP neva did
>like him.) I've
>mentored in elementary schools in
>SouthWest Atlanta, Georgia (the slums
>baby). You don't know
>that I have family ties
>to Caesar Chavez, and that
>my mother marched with the
>man.
That doesn't make you Caesar Chavez. Name dropping, an activist doesn't make.

YOu don't know
>that I build with an
>Aunt who is a judge
>in Los Angeles who keeps
>me up on current events
>and politics (poly meaning many/tics
>meaning blood sucking creatures).
What is your point?

>I'm tuned into the 360th
>degree, I'm tuned into the
>360th degree!!
>YOU DON"T KNOW THAT I AM
>GATHERING OKAY ACTIVISTS ON THE
>WEST COAST TO BEGIN A
>TRUE ACTIVIST GROUP.
And what are you going to do?? You still haven't answered my question. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? I want specific examples. Not to discredit you, but because I am genuinely interested.

>Hell yeah I'm on the computer!!
> I gotta get paid
>so I can leave this
>country!! But you know
>what, this cespool still won't
>be rid of me.
>I'll raise my children to
>be everything that America was
>suppose to be and beyond
>it.
Good, That's great. As I will raise mine, but they will know that if they want something they have to fight for it, and if they believe something they have to live it.



"Me fail english? That's unpossible!"

Jesus smited my signature!

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 12:37 PM

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59. "RE: riiiiiiiiiiiiight"
In response to Reply # 58


          

When I made those comments I immediately apologized. They were in a joking mattere anyway.
I plan to do whatever I can to expand and awaken the consciousness of individuals such as yourselves, but more importantley children. Your not being sensible. Of course I use technology, it's wherever I go!!. If I want to get paid I have to survive!!!
SURVIVAL IS ALWAYS FIRST!!
I MUST SURVIVE.

You sound like an old ass wigger from 1955

GO GO Just leave. lol
you act like it's that easy, being born here, nobody asks to be born anywhere.
Why do you want to know about our activist group? DO you want to participate? If you want to know participate. What do you do? It doesn't really matter cause I'm not worried about YOU. I'm arguing with your ideas

Now as for me saying faggot biggots. How am I a hypocrite from this one statement. It is well known that most of these racists billionaires and other men of high rank lead sexually sick homosexual lifestyles they cover up with families.
(and have been since early greece and I'm sure b4 that. I am also aware of other cultures homosexual on goings)

Now if you couldn't see what I meant by the break down of politics, I'm trying to show you that those in power know they are only their to suck the life out of our existence. True life

"Gotta get paid and leave the states/the richest country's full of primates/I'm fly at any rate"-Pablo

So what I name dropped Caesar Chavez. Of course I'm not him. But I'm letting you know that I've been influenced by people who have always been conscious of the ills of America and have been trying all their lives to make it better. My aunt Hates the government, yet she's a judge. YOu need some understanding who ever you may be. This is a touchy subject for me. I NOTICED YOU DIDN'T COMMENT ABOUT MY MENTORING IN SOUTHWEST ATLANTA. What the hell do you think that is. I love children. I want to teach. I'm not gonna sit here and argue about who started this. We both made it personal. I could sit here and ask what you do. But on the real I don't even wanna know. I can see you do defend a country ,that sees you like a snake sees a rodent....prey, BLINDLEY!!!! You speak of my hypocracy...which is funny...but you don't see the biggest hypocrite....Uncle Sam. Understand I am the Hypocrite Gunner. America does need time to change, but those in power at the time will destroy this planet before they surrender it to the LOrds of LIght/people of the sun.

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

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Bombshell
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1239 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 12:59 PM

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60. "Agree to Disagree"
In response to Reply # 59


          

>When I made those comments I
>immediately apologized. They were
>in a joking mattere anyway.
ok.

>I plan to do whatever I
>can to expand and awaken
>the consciousness of individuals such
>as yourselves, but more importantley
>children. Your not being
>sensible. Of course I
>use technology, it's wherever I
>go!!. If I want
>to get paid I
>have to survive!!!
>SURVIVAL IS ALWAYS FIRST!!
>I MUST SURVIVE.
This is where we differ. What is it to survive if you are living falsehood? If I believe in something I live it. You don't, fine. I get it.

>You sound like an old ass
>wigger from 1955
>
>GO GO Just leave. lol
See.... can't you make a response without something like this? I thought we were trying to have some kind of civilized exchange of ideas... alas, I was wrong.

>you act like it's that easy,
>being born here, nobody asks
>to be born anywhere.
>Why do you want to know
>about our activist group?
>DO you want to participate?
> If you want to
>know participate. What do
>you do? It doesn't
>really matter cause I'm not
>worried about YOU. I'm
>arguing with your ideas
I wouldn't participate in something if I didn't know what it was about, which is why I'm asking for specifics. As I stated, it's not an attack, I'm interested in knowing what your intentions are.

>Now as for me saying faggot
>biggots. How am I
>a hypocrite from this one
>statement. It is well
>known that most of these
>racists billionaires and other men
>of high rank lead sexually
>sick homosexual lifestyles they cover
>up with families.
> (and have been since early
>greece and I'm sure b4
>that. I am also aware
>of other cultures homosexual on
>goings)

big·ot n. A person who is intolerant of a creed, belief etc. that differs from his own and is often prejudiced against people holding them.

You can't call someone else a bigot and USE A BIGOTED TERM like "faggot" That, sir, is hypocrisy.


>Now if you couldn't see what
>I meant by the break
>down of politics, I'm trying
>to show you that those
> in power know they
>are only their to suck
>the life out of our
>existence. True life
Like I said, OK I have no problem with you believing this is the truth. But what are you doing about it?

>"Gotta get paid and leave the
>states/the richest country's full of
>primates/I'm fly at any rate"-Pablo
>
>
>So what I name dropped Caesar
>Chavez. Of course I'm
>not him. But I'm
>letting you know that I've
>been influenced by people who
>have always been conscious of
>the ills of America and
>have been trying all their
>lives to make it better.
So do you think that all these people, King, X, Chavez, hated America? Or do you think they saw something WORTH changing?

> My aunt Hates the
>government, yet she's a judge.
> YOu need some understanding
>who ever you may be.
> This is a touchy
>subject for me. I
>NOTICED YOU DIDN'T COMMENT ABOUT
>MY MENTORING IN SOUTHWEST ATLANTA.
> What the hell do
>you think that is.
I think it's great. It's a wonderful thing. I doubt you need my approval.
>I love children. I
>want to teach. I'm
>not gonna sit here and
>argue about who started this.
> We both made it
>personal. I could sit
>here and ask what you
>do. But on the
>real I don't even wanna
>know. I can see
>you do defend a country
>,that sees you like a
>snake sees a rodent....prey, BLINDLEY!!!!
> You speak of my
>hypocracy...which is funny...but you don't
>see the biggest hypocrite....Uncle Sam.
> Understand I am the
>Hypocrite Gunner. America does
>need time to change, but
>those in power at the
>time will destroy this planet
>before they surrender it to
>the LOrds of LIght/people of
>the sun.
I think you've missed my point on several occassions. I'm not attacking what you believe or even arguing against it anymore. I want to know what you do to make change. Being a rep. for the NAACP, mentoring in school, those are great things.

I still think that if you dont understand and appreciate the good things about America then you should leave, make way for someone else who can live a better life by reaping those benefits. In afghanistan women can't leave the house after dark. they can't leave the house without wearing full body robes. If some woman doesn't "appreciate" the fact that this does not apply to her while she lives in America, then she should try living there.

We disagree. That's fine.

"Me fail english? That's unpossible!"

Jesus smited my signature!

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 01:07 PM

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61. "RE: Agree to Disagree"
In response to Reply # 60


          

Whatever home girl
You're obviously blinded by the arrogance of your own intellect. When i say I have to survive I mean I make the best out of my situation. If I don't work on my computer I don't get paid, if I don't get paid I don't have the money to leave. Why am I bringin this up. You do not want to have any understanding. Wether you're white or black your lost. Follow the lIght. Open your heart. Intellect can lead you astray. Shut that big brain up and listen to your heart sista. So what your an english Whiz kid, that's just knowledge to know things. You say I don't live by what I believe. Well it's hard to when you're a black man in America. Period. Grow up. I've listened and responded to everything you've brought up but you continue to be blind and childish. Peace unto you and all your endeavors.

Just hope they don't cross paths with mine...for your sake.

Right now we need to say no more.

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

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Bombshell
Charter member
1239 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 01:25 PM

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62. "Bowing out semi-gracefully...."
In response to Reply # 61


          

>Whatever home girl
>You're obviously blinded by the arrogance
>of your own intellect.
Obviously... this is laughable.

>When i say I have
>to survive I mean I
>make the best out of
>my situation. If I
>don't work on my computer
>I don't get paid, if
>I don't get paid I
>don't have the money to
>leave. Why am I
>bringin this up. You
>do not want to have
>any understanding. Wether you're
>white or black your lost.
> Follow the lIght.
>Open your heart. Intellect
>can lead you astray.
I think you're over-reacting. I'm trying to have a discussion with you and you're offended at every other turn.

>Shut that big brain up
>and listen to your heart
>sista. So what your
>an english Whiz kid, that's
>just knowledge to know things.
> You say I don't
>live by what I believe.
> Well it's hard to
>when you're a black man
>in America. Period. Grow
>up.
And it's hard to when you're a black woman in America too, but that's no excuse.

I've listened and
>responded to everything you've brought
>up but you continue to
>be blind and childish.
I'm not going to even ask where I've been childish, this is just plain nonsense.

>Peace unto you and all
>your endeavors.
Likewise
>Just hope they don't cross paths
>with mine...for your sake.
Why? That sounds like a threat, are you going to kick my ass? Entirely laughable. What you are trying to pass off as taking the respectable way out is too easily seen for what it really is.

>Right now we need to say
>no more.
And yes, I'm getting the last word in. So you can have one point on my part for being childish, but I assure you, your column is full.

Good Luck with you and yours.
"Me fail english? That's unpossible!"

Jesus smited my signature!

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 01:31 PM

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63. "RE: Bowing out semi-gracefully...."
In response to Reply # 62


          

>>Whatever home girl
>>You're obviously blinded by the arrogance
>>of your own intellect.
>Obviously... this is laughable.
>
>>When i say I have
>>to survive I mean I
>>make the best out of
>>my situation. If I
>>don't work on my computer
>>I don't get paid, if
>>I don't get paid I
>>don't have the money to
>>leave. Why am I
>>bringin this up. You
>>do not want to have
>>any understanding. Wether you're
>>white or black your lost.
>> Follow the lIght.
>>Open your heart. Intellect
>>can lead you astray.
>I think you're over-reacting. I'm trying
>to have a discussion with
>you and you're offended at
>every other turn.
>
>>Shut that big brain up
>>and listen to your heart
>>sista. So what your
>>an english Whiz kid, that's
>>just knowledge to know things.
>> You say I don't
>>live by what I believe.
>> Well it's hard to
>>when you're a black man
>>in America. Period. Grow
>>up.
>And it's hard to when you're
>a black woman in America
>too, but that's no excuse.
>
>
> I've listened and
>>responded to everything you've brought
>>up but you continue to
>>be blind and childish.
>I'm not going to even ask
>where I've been childish, this
>is just plain nonsense.
>
>>Peace unto you and all
>>your endeavors.
>Likewise
>>Just hope they don't cross paths
>>with mine...for your sake.
>Why? That sounds like a threat,
>are you going to kick
>my ass? Entirely laughable. What
>you are trying to pass
>off as taking the respectable
>way out is too easily
>seen for what it really
>is.
>
>>Right now we need to say
>>no more.
>And yes, I'm getting the last
>word in. So you can
>have one point on my
>part for being childish, but
>I assure you, your column
>is full.
>
>Good Luck with you and yours.
>
>"Me fail english? That's unpossible!"



"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 01:37 PM

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64. "RE: Bowing out semi-gracefully...."
In response to Reply # 62


          

Kick your ass?
No but you'll soon learn. It's not all about that big brain of yours. And that intellect of the heart is what controls your conscious/will. If I'm coming across Harsh i'm sorry. I get into my discussions. I won't front homegirl I have a lot to learn, but as you do. yeah I'm sayin fuck America cause I don't need it to identify with anything. All I need is that sun up in space to know who I am. Not some country.
I sometimes get upset when I know I can't change peoples minds, that's another thing I work on. But anyways
I'm out
peaces

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

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Vette
Charter member
9685 posts
Thu Jul-05-01 08:04 AM

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34. "my parents come from..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the philippines and they came here for the same reasons that most immigrants come, for the opportunities that are not available anywhere else. i am aware of the injustices in this nation and i've fought them in more ways than one, but i am also aware of the privileges that i have. despite the inconsistencies, the injustices, and the corruption, we have much more opportunities than any other place in the world. i've been to the philippines quite a few times, and each time i go, i realize how fortunate i am. poverty is terrible anywhere in the world and you realize it even more when you visit a third world nation and you hear the stories of what your parents had to go through growing up. we are very lucky indeed and we have to take this privilege and use it to help others. this is what i thought of during the 4th.

peace,
vette.
___________________________
got soy milk?
http://surf.to/parchmentpaper
"education is our passport to the future; for tomorrow belongs to those who prepare for it today."

__________________________________________

<--- Still reppin' the Bay
Life. Love. Music:
http://vettievette.wordpress.com
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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 10:24 AM

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50. "RE: my parents come from..."
In response to Reply # 34


          

>the philippines and they came here
>for the same reasons that
>most immigrants come, for the
>opportunities that are not available
>anywhere else. i am
>aware of the injustices in
>this nation and i've fought
>them in more ways than
>one, but i am also
>aware of the privileges that
>i have. despite the
>inconsistencies, the injustices, and the
>corruption, we have much more
>opportunities than any other place
>in the world. i've been
>to the philippines quite a
>few times, and each time
>i go, i realize how
>fortunate i am. poverty is
>terrible anywhere in the world
>and you realize it even
>more when you visit a
>third world nation and you
>hear the stories of what
>your parents had to go
>through growing up


THE REASON WHY THESE OTHER NATIONS ARE LIKE THEY ARE BECAUSE OF AMERICA!!! AND THEY ALL GOT WESTERN GOVERNMENTS OR THEY'RE TRYING TO BE LIKE OUR GOVERNMENT. cOUNTRIES Are third world because of America and Europe! All of that colonization DID HAVE IT's Effects.

"You seek and it hurts to be def dumb and blind/A supreme mind/will take you out of your peralisis."-Lord Jammar

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

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urbgriot
Charter member
11445 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 10:35 AM

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51. "does that make"
In response to Reply # 50


          

going anywhere else better...

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

  

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peace3
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31620 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 11:09 AM

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56. "RE: does that make"
In response to Reply # 51


          

>going anywhere else better...

Love the land, fuck tha country as a whole (Government)!!
I'm from American BUt I"m not OF it.



"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

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Ami_Aura

Thu Jul-05-01 09:02 AM

  
35. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Hell yeah! I'd be up and out as soon as a milked this worthless country for whats its worth which is economic success. Money and prosperity is all the US has to offer once I use this country to get rich, I'm out. Money has be substituted for democracy, morality, equality, justice, honesty, love, and everything else that I deem to be important. So as soon as I get enough dough Im out. I would never want to do my unborn the injustice of raising them in such a mentally and spiritually hindering environment. Im heading to Cuba, or Jamaica, or Trinidad, or England, or Madagascar, or Japan, or India, or anywhere else but here. Damn... the education system here ain't even worth shit. (Yes I used ain't on purpose). All the opportunity in the world couldn't keep me here. Opportunity ain't shit but a wish sittin' on hope. The US doesn't need physical slavery because they have 99.9% of the people enslaving themselve. God said... don't do this, God said don't do that People died so I could vote, My vote really matters, I gotta get a good ejukashon, to get a "real" job to by this, to live there, to pay these bills, to die and be buried somewhere nice. I may end up somewhere hot as hell with a grass hut for a house, but damn ... at least my kids will be able to break bread with freedom.

  

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mamazgun
Charter member
330 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 01:17 AM

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39. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

>Hell yeah! I'd be
>up and out as soon
>as a milked this worthless
>country for whats its worth
>which is economic success.

it's definitely more than that.

> Money and prosperity is
>all the US has to
>offer once I use this
>country to get rich, I'm
>out. Money has be
>substituted for democracy, morality, equality,
>justice, honesty, love, and everything
>else that I deem to
>be important.

in as small doses as "democracy, morality, equality, justice, honesty, love, and everything else" are here in this country, there are parts of the world where they're non-existent. every year thousands of immigrants literally die trying to come into this country to make a better life for themselves and their families.

So as
>soon as I get enough
>dough Im out. I
>would never want to do
>my unborn the injustice of
>raising them in such a
>mentally and spiritually hindering environment.

ah but if you only trully knew what a "mentally and spiritually hindering environment" was, you'd understand how completely errenous this statement is with regards to the American government. You're getting a little too carried away with your disgust and disenchantment about this country to realize how ridiculous your statements sound. Try telling that to someone from Lybia or any other third world country and see the reaction you get.

> Im heading to Cuba,
>or Jamaica, or Trinidad, or
>England, or Madagascar, or Japan,
>or India, or anywhere else
>but here. Damn... the
>education system here ain't even
>worth shit. (Yes I used
>ain't on purpose). All
>the opportunity in the world
>couldn't keep me here.
>Opportunity ain't shit but a
>wish sittin' on hope.
>The US doesn't need physical
>slavery because they have 99.9%
>of the people enslaving themselve.

but people here -citizens,residents, immigrants (illegal and otherwise) are still 100% more free than in some of the places you mentioned wanting to move to.


> God said... don't do
>this, God said don't do
>that People died so I
>could vote, My vote
>really matters, I gotta get
>a good ejukashon, to get
>a "real" job to by
>this, to live there, to
>pay these bills, to die
>and be buried somewhere nice.
> I may
>end up somewhere hot as
>hell with a grass hut
>for a house, but damn
>... at least my kids
>will be able to break
>bread with freedom.

geez. before you start packing up and throwing all this American sh*t out the window, find out about the world you want to run to. and don't just sit content with what you've seen on tv because that seems to be the only thing that your basing all this resentment on.


`````````````````````````````````````````
"She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the mastery of life." --Frances E. Willard, How I Learned to Ride the Bicycle


Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of bir

  

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Ami_Aura

Fri Jul-06-01 03:42 AM

  
40. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 39


          

I do know alot about the world and other countries...
but the only reason that most people flee their countries to come here is because they posses the same false illusion of the american dream that most people here have. And no matter what it all comes down to MONEY. A third world country is considered to be any country that is not as economically developed as the US. These are the same folks who said that blacks weren't human and civilized just because the culture was not their own. People come here because they see opportunity for economic sucess. They may even want to break from religious persecution but religion is the largest form of mental slavery anyway.... thats why you can practice any religion in the US because its like putting the shackles on yourself. _______ism (Choose any religion)says or believes that you should obey laws, live a "good" life, be nice to others, do whats "right" Praise ME and do as I say.


Also you say that most people here are free?? What constitutes freedom to you may not constitute freedom to me. Enlightenment is the only true freedom to me. Not no bullshit like being able to vote, and the rest of those worldly things mentioned in the Bill of Rights, nothing that is related to the government will ever represent freedom. May be you should do some research and learn the motives for the set up of the US government. Guess what... its not to let the people be free, in case you haven't figured it out yet. The enslavement that I speak of is strictly mental and is on a level that most people wont ever see.

And a majority of your opinion is relative, for example "to make a better life for themselves" what is a better life? Coming here to the US and working yourself to death? Yeah you may have a car and a house and food, but you never even lived. But that may not be a "better" life in someone elses eyes. Cuba cannot be too bad if Assata loves it there. And I don't believe shit I see on tv. I take dead prez's advice .. believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. Im totally aware that 95% of the stuff on tv are lies and propaganda to fool the citizens of america into thinking this is the best country, and it is obviously doing its job! No other country really likes the US, and its not jealousy. Why do you think terroist are always attacking the US? but those same "terrorist" have dinner with Farrakahn? Maybe you should try to see the country for what it is. Not for what you want it to be or for what it could or should be.

And how dare you make assumptions about my capacity of knowledge? I know a lot and for me the only true knowledge is experience... to say you know something and you haven't experienced it is an oxymoron.

  

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mamazgun
Charter member
330 posts
Fri Jul-06-01 07:43 AM

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44. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>I do know alot about the
>world and other countries...
>but the only reason that most
>people flee their countries to
>come here is because they
>posses the same false illusion
>of the american dream that
>most people here have.

well some people will take this false illusion over the realities they're living. because at least with this false illusion, they have more choices and more freedoms than they can ever dream of having where they are.

>And no matter what it
>all comes down to MONEY.

no doubt. money might be a big part of it but it's still more than just money. it's not that black and white.

>A third world country is
>considered to be any country
>that is not as economically
>developed as the US. These
>are the same folks who
>said that blacks weren't human
>and civilized just because the
>culture was not their own.
> People come here because
>they see opportunity for economic
>sucess. They may even want
>to break from religious persecution
>but religion is the largest
>form of mental slavery anyway....
>thats why you can practice
>any religion in the US
>because its like putting the
>shackles on yourself. _______ism
>(Choose any religion)says or believes
>that you should obey laws,
>live a "good" life, be
>nice to others, do whats
>"right" Praise ME and do
>as I say.
>
what about governmental corruption, ethnicity wars and "ethnicism", crime, poverty, disease. it's not just about religion (though I'm sure you had all these in mind). there are so many things that can make someone fed up with the life they're living, and with America portrayed as the land where you can do just about anything you please, even the shortcomings of this culture are bearable compared to the persecution and distress of other places. you cannot put a price on peace of mind. you just can't.

>
>Also you say that most people
>here are free?? What constitutes
>freedom to you may not
>constitute freedom to me.
>Enlightenment is the only true
>freedom to me. Not
>no bullshit like being able
>to vote, and the rest
>of those worldly things mentioned
>in the Bill of Rights,
>nothing that is related to
>the government will ever represent
>freedom. May be you should
>do some research and learn
>the motives for the set
>up of the US government.
>Guess what... its not to
>let the people be free,
>in case you haven't figured
>it out yet. The enslavement
>that I speak of is
>strictly mental and is on
>a level that most people
>wont ever see.
>And a majority of your opinion
>is relative, for example "to
>make a better life for
>themselves" what is a
>better life? Coming here
>to the US and working
>yourself to death? Yeah
>you may have a car
>and a house and food,
>but you never even lived.
> But that may not
>be a "better" life in
>someone elses eyes. Cuba
>cannot be too bad if
>Assata loves it there.

I'm not saying that all third world countries are intolerable places to live in. but if you don't have money or a family with a name and the money to provide the kind of security and peace of mind that only money can buy in these countries, well guess what, you'll still be "working yourself to death" and you won't have lived any better. and you probably won't even have a car or a house or food. and how do you propose you're going to attain this "enlightenment" when every morning you have to wonder if your house will still be standing when you return from slaving away at the end of the day. if YOU will be still standing at the end of the day. I'm not sure what you mean by enlightenment here. unless you're from a tribe existing secluded from the ills of modern society, still retaining all the traditions and lifestyles of your ancestors before you, and becoming enlightened within and about your culture and life, your money is all you've got to protect your property and yourself and "enlightenment" in this case is not free for all. Assata doesn't live in a hut on a hill. she has money. she knows people. she has a name there.
you're right in saying freedom is relative.

>And I don't believe shit
>I see on tv.
>I take dead prez's advice
>.. believe none of what
>you hear and half of
>what you see. Im
>totally aware that 95% of
>the stuff on tv are
>lies and propaganda to fool
>the citizens of america into
>thinking this is the best
>country, and it is obviously
>doing its job! No
>other country really likes the
>US, and its not jealousy.

you're absolutely right. no other country really likes the US. but where else can you get away with openly rebuking and criticizing your country and not lose your life for it? but that's not even the point and don't think I'm saying that because you can it makes America a great land. the point i'm trying to make is that you're not a prisoner of your mind in this country - you're not forbidden from confronting and criticizing your oppressors.

> Why do you think
>terroist are always attacking the
>US? but those same
>"terrorist" have dinner with Farrakahn?
> Maybe you should
>try to see the country
>for what it is. Not
>for what you want it
>to be or for what
>it could or should be.
>
I see the country for what it is. I KNOW what this country is. but I don't let that get in the way of what I know my life is and what it could or should be. there's a difference. living in this country is only a means to an ends - it is not the end all. it is not the ultimate.

>And how dare you make assumptions
>about my capacity of knowledge?
>I know a lot and
>for me the only true
>knowledge is experience... to say
>you know something and you
>haven't experienced it is an
>oxymoron.

I made assumptions about your capacity of knowledge based on what you wrote. nothing more - nothing less. for your information what I know IS also from what I have experienced. I know what it's like to live in a country where you fear for your life for the mere fact that you belong to a certain group or class of people, I know what it's like to bargain for your freedom everyday with the "police" and the courts and the government and all the "protectors" of your civil rights, I know what it's like to be afraid of your own neighbours, I know what it's like to live without all the amenities of a modern society - no electricity, running water, or all the things that we take for granted on a regular basis. I know what it's like and YOU cannot DARE to say you know something that you've read about or seen or heard if you haven't lived it. man, don't get ahead of yourself.

`````````````````````````````````````````
"She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the mastery of life." --Frances E. Willard, How I Learned to Ride the Bicycle


Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of bir

  

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peace3
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Fri Jul-06-01 07:48 AM

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45. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 40


          

KICK DA TRUFE TO DA YOUNG BLACK YOUF

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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LordLadypharr
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Fri Jul-06-01 06:44 AM

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41. "yes..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in a effin heartbeat...
why???
cuz in some countries they give education away...
i would go to one of those places and get my school on...
________________________________________
"She ain't nothing but a mircowave bitch,want everything quick"-Blue

"You trying to block my salvation"-Holiday heart

"I will preach heaven and beat the hell out of you"-Holiday Heart
________________________________________

_______________________________________

01001101-01011001-00100000-01001110-01000001-01001101-01000101-00100000-01001001-01010011-00100000-01001100-01001001-01001100-01001100-01001001-01000001-01001110-00100000-00001101-00001010-01000001-01001110-0100010

  

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urbgriot
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Fri Jul-06-01 10:39 AM

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52. "you pay for it"
In response to Reply # 41


          


https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

  

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LexM
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Fri Jul-06-01 08:34 AM

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46. "honestly? i don't know..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'd have to do a lot more research and a lot more searching before I was willing to say yes.

As you said, there are a lot of freedoms that we have here that we take for granted until we go someplace else. And a large part of me wants to stay & find a way to work towards making all that "theory" a definite reality. But there are other times when I get fed up and just wanna give up on it.

A perfect situation, I think, would be the opportunity to travel & stay in each place for a few months at a time to really get a feel for the country & the people.




~~~SPITFIRE: AUGUST 23, 2001~~~
HipHop. Old school style. In Full Effect. Want Info? Email: carameldom@hotmail.com

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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urbgriot
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Fri Jul-06-01 10:40 AM

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53. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 46


          

although Afrika is a definite destination...

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

  

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LexM
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Thu Jul-12-01 03:18 AM

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69. "definitely..."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

if nothing else, I want to see the forts on the west african coast...see where my ancestors' journey began...



~~~SPITFIRE: AUGUST 23, 2001~~~
HipHop. Old school style. In Full Effect. Want Info? Email: carameldom@hotmail.com

"to get inside this head of mine/would take a monkey wrench/and a lot of wine" ~~Res

~~~~
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http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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HotThyng76
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80. "ESPECIALLY women."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

As fucked up as things are for women in America, they're much much worse in other places.

_______________________

  

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BuddhaWake

Fri Jul-06-01 09:08 AM

  
48. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Why would anyone want to go to Argentina, they hate all that are non European. I don't know, just asking.

  

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sistasoul
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Fri Jul-06-01 10:50 AM

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54. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          



The responses to this post have been very interesting, and some quite amusing. I was kind of amazed to see that most people would either opt to move to some European country, or to just stay in America. This baffles my mind! To the people who wish to stay in America and "make things better here." Sorry to say this, but that is never going to happen! I'm not a pessimist, I am a realist. The structure of this country never had any intention of allowing non-whites to reach any sort of real success, and by success I don't mean cars, clothes and a house in the hamptons. I don't want Blacks to be fooled into thinking that we are making progress, when actually, we are digressing! Do you really think that you will ever be accepted by whites? No! You won't. Why would you want to stay in a country that has ruined you in so many ways physicall and mentally? If the ideals and fundamental of the constitution are really all that wonderful, then is the predicament of Blacks in America so fucked up now? If change is really what you desire, then learn all you can about your heritage, things that they will NEVER teach you in any American school. And then you won't want to stay. This country has been almost totally stripped of all its natural goods and resources. They want you to stay! There's nothing left to be gained here. Do you know where they are going next? Guess. The continent with the most untapped resources in the world! Africa! They will go to YOUR motherland and use up her resources, while we stay our black asses right over here in America. Does that sound right?

And to those who wish to move to Italy, England, Spain, wherever. Stop thinking that anything European is where its at!! Do you really think that moving to one of these countries is going to make the situation better for you? You will still be black. And don't be fooled into thinking that racism was eradicated in those countries. It still exists! The only continent that will ever embrace you , that will ever love you is Africa, your home. Yes, there are problems in Africa, but who did they stem from?? Europeans! South Africans didn't implement apartheid BY THEMSELVES! It was put into effect by the British. But you want to go to England?? The situation in Rwanda, between the Hotu and the Tutsi. That rivalry was ENGINEERED years before we even knew about it. Engineered by who? The Europeans who came in the colonial era. Divide and conquer, its been a way of life for them for centuries, their best war tactic. There is shit that has been done to Africans in the diaspora that we don't even know about!

I said all that to say, that yes, I think that Africans in the diaspora, if they desire to leave their oppressive countries should make that move back to the motherland. The continent awaits us. It wants us to return and save it from being raped and pillaged by Europeans. But that will never happen if Blacks keep thinking that there is nothing for them in Africa. Everything is there for you in AFrica! Because it is your home.



~one

~~~~~~welcome to my sig~~~~~~~

"Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves."- Gandalf, 'The Two Towers'

"...the doper that I get the more I'm feeling broke as shit..."- Dre 3000

  

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mamazgun
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Fri Jul-06-01 02:56 PM

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65. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

This
>baffles my mind! To
>the people who wish to
>stay in America and "make
>things better here." Sorry
>to say this, but that
>is never going to happen!
> I'm not a pessimist,
>I am a realist.
>The structure of this country
>never had any intention of
>allowing non-whites to reach any
>sort of real success, and
>by success I don't mean
>cars, clothes and a house
>in the hamptons.

so what do you mean by success? it's all relative - and relative to the capitalistic global society that we are currently residing in, success is measured in exactly those terms. it's up to you to define the terms of your success for your self but for people living in modern societies that have set the standard for success as having more of everything, how else is "real success" measured? you said you were a realist - I beg to differ.

>I
>don't want Blacks to be
>fooled into thinking that we
>are making progress, when actually,
>we are digressing!
> Do you really think
>that you will ever be
>accepted by whites? No!
> You won't.

question: do we have to be accepted by whites for us to acknowledge our worth as human beings. excuse me but fuck anybody, black, white, red, blue, I don't care who - who tells me that I need their acceptance before I can be deemed worthy as a human being and an individual. that's not an issue and it shouldn't be. we don't need to walk around demanding to be accepted. we need to focus on more pressing issues.

>Why would
>you want to stay in
>a country that has ruined
>you in so many ways
>physicall and mentally? If
>the ideals and fundamental of
>the constitution are really all
>that wonderful, then is the
>predicament of Blacks in America
>so fucked up now?

because it is more within my power to "fix" my "ruined" self in this country than it is in some parts of the world. I'm not sure I understand your last sentence.

>If change is really what
>you desire, then learn all
>you can about your heritage,
>things that they will NEVER
>teach you in any American
>school. And then you
>won't want to stay.
>This country has been almost
>totally stripped of all its
>natural goods and resources.
>They want you to stay!
> There's nothing left to
>be gained here. Do
>you know where they are
>going next? Guess.
>The continent with the most
>untapped resources in the world!
> Africa! They will
>go to YOUR motherland and
>use up her resources, while
>we stay our black asses
>right over here in America.
> Does that sound right?
>

um. . . but didn't they do that already?? I think that's why they left eventually. they took what they wanted and left the scraps to the natives.

>
>And to those who wish to
>move to Italy, England, Spain,
>wherever. Stop thinking that
>anything European is where its
>at!! Do you really
>think that moving to one
>of these countries is going
>to make the situation better
>for you? You will
>still be black. And
>don't be fooled into thinking
>that racism was eradicated in
>those countries. It still
>exists! The only continent
>that will ever embrace you
>, that will ever love
>you is Africa, your home.
> Yes, there are problems
>in Africa, but who did
>they stem from?? Europeans!
> South Africans didn't implement
>apartheid BY THEMSELVES! It
>was put into effect by
>the British. But you
>want to go to England??
> The situation in Rwanda,
>between the Hotu and
>the Tutsi. That rivalry
>was ENGINEERED years before we
>even knew about it.
>Engineered by who? The
>Europeans who came in the
>colonial era. Divide and conquer,
>its been a way of
>life for them for centuries,
>their best war tactic. There
>is shit that has been
>done to Africans in the
>diaspora that we don't even
>know about!

and that's the God's honest truth. so now what?

>
>I said all that to say,
>that yes, I think that
>Africans in the diaspora, if
>they desire to leave
>their oppressive countries should make
>that move back to the
>motherland. The continent awaits
>us. It wants us
>to return and save it
>from being raped and pillaged
>by Europeans. But that
>will never happen if Blacks
>keep thinking that there is
>nothing for them in Africa.
> Everything is there for
>you in AFrica! Because
>it is your home.
>

that's really easy for you to say. the only raping and pillaging going on in Africa as far as I know is being done by the Africans themselves. And sorry to gray your blue skies but it's going to take millenias before Africa returns to its former glory. In the meantime, the fortunate who can make their way out of the beloved "dark continent" will continue to do so.

`````````````````````````````````````````
"She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the mastery of life." --Frances E. Willard, How I Learned to Ride the Bicycle


Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of bir

  

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sistasoul
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Fri Jul-06-01 06:55 PM

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66. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          



>so what do you mean by

>success? it's all relative -

>and relative to the capitalistic

>global society that we are

>currently residing in, success is

>measured in exactly those terms.

>it's up to you to

>define the terms of your

>success for your self but

>for people living in modern

>societies that have set the

>standard for success as having

>more of everything, how else

>is "real success" measured? you

>said you were a realist

>- I beg to differ.



Do you? Well, thats cool. I call myself a realist, you differ. Its all good. To think that "real success" whatever that is, is measured by "having more of everything" is foolish. I suppose my first statement was a little unclear, perhaps I shouldn't have used the word success because unfortunately, it is defined by all those material things. We as blacks will never be able to escape the mental enslavery that we have been subjected to for so many years. The country was not designed for us to be free. We, and by we I mean blacks living in America, have been made to think for so long that material things are what account for accomplishment and achievement. That is our downfall. And you just proved my EXACT point, so thank you.

>

>



>

>question: do we have to be

>accepted by whites for us

>to acknowledge our worth as

>human beings. excuse me but

>fuck anybody, black, white, red,

>blue, I don't care who

>- who tells me that

>I need their acceptance before

>I can be deemed worthy

>as a human being and

>an individual. that's not an

>issue and it shouldn't be.

>we don't need to walk

>around demanding to be accepted.

>we need to focus on

>more pressing issues.



Answer: What do you think the mindless pursuit of acquiring material things ("real success" as you eloquently put it) is in essence? It is a way that we try to say "look, for so long, I couldn't have these things but now I do..." It is essentially, and maybe subconciously a quest for approval by this American society. Blacks strove for civil rights, integration, so that they could have the same things that whites have. Live in the same neighborhoods as whites do. Drive nice cars like whites did. If thats not a quest for acceptance, I don't know what is.

Question: Please tell me, I'm interested to know what you think are the pressing issues that we need to focus on?>

>>



Why would

>>you want to stay in

>>a country that has ruined

>>you in so many ways

>>physicall and mentally? If

>>the ideals and fundamental of

>>the constitution are really all

>>that wonderful, then is the

>>predicament of Blacks in America

>>so fucked up now?

>

Realize this. You will never, EVER fix what is ruined in this country. NEVER. I don't care if you lived a thousand lifetimes. It won't happen because the crutch that is held over us is one of ignorance and of mind control. The only way to battle those things are by educating people about their history, and about where they came from. I assure you, if you and others like you, knew HALF, just half the shit that has been taken away from Africans throughout history by Europeans, you would have no desire to dwell anywhere that they reside. Your focus would be on uniting your people and taking them back to the place called Africa. As for the last sentence, I think its quite self explanatory. Someone in another response said that the cats who wrote the Declaration and the constitution were on to something. Well whatever they were onto obviously didn't involve helping Blacks in America, if it did, we would be flourishing, not floundering.

>

>um. . . but didn't they

>do that already?? I think

>that's why they left eventually.

>they took what they wanted

>and left the scraps to

>the natives.



Um...no, they didn't already do that. Did you think I just made up the fact about Africa having the most untapped resources on the planet? It is just that, FACT. And mark my words, Europeans are no where near finished using Africa for all its worth. Look it up if you don't trust my word, you'll find the truth.

>

>> and that's the God's honest truth.

>so now what?



I thought thats what these boards where supposed to do...answer that question. So now what? Got any ideas?



>that's really easy for you to

>say. the only raping and

>pillaging going on in Africa

>as far as I know

>is being done by the

>Africans themselves. And sorry to

>gray your blue skies but

>it's going to take millenias

>before Africa returns to its

>former glory. In the meantime,

>the fortunate who can make

>their way out of the

>beloved "dark continent" will continue

>to do so.



No, its easy for me to say because I know what I'm talking about. Trust me, there is nothing you could possibly say to ruin my blue skies. If you think that it is really going to take millenias to restore Africa, than you are one of the mentally enslaved. Your mind is on lockdown and you don't even know it. "As far as you know" all the pillaging has been done to Africa by Africans. Would it kill to look a little deeper than that. I used the Rwanda situation and apartheid as an example. People in Africa are not just arbitrarily warring or killing each other. These are feuds set in motion by Europeans to divide and conquer nations. And those who aren't killing over feuds, are doing it because they are starving, and their countries are being exploited for the natural resources that are rightly theirs. So before pointing fingers, please look at the ENTIRE picture. I'm sure your views would be much different. And for future reference, reffering to Africa as the "dark continent" is very insulting. That term was derrogatory and used by explorers and Europeans during the slave trade.

I thank you for responding to my post. It at least lets me know that people are out there and thinking, even if I disagree with them a little bit. I want for you to respond to this one if anything is unclear. I may be able to suggest some books that might bring some issues into clearer light.





~peace

~~~~~~welcome to my sig~~~~~~~

"Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves."- Gandalf, 'The Two Towers'

"...the doper that I get the more I'm feeling broke as shit..."- Dre 3000

  

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mamazgun
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Thu Jul-12-01 03:12 AM

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68. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

>Do you? Well, thats cool. I call myself a realist, you differ. Its all
>good. To think that "real success" whatever that is, is measured by "having
>more of everything" is foolish. I suppose my first statement was a little
>unclear, perhaps I shouldn't have used the word success because
>unfortunately, it is defined by all those material things. We as blacks
>will never be able to escape the mental enslavery that we have been
>subjected to for so many years. The country was not designed for us to be
>free. We, and by we I mean blacks living in America, have been made to
>think for so long that material things are what account for accomplishment
>and achievement.

But they do account for accomplishment. people fought and died for blacks to
be able to live on the same level as their white counterparts. I wouldn't
discount that as not being an accomplishment. you may not find the value in
it but a movement for us to be equal on so many levels went on and because
of that, shallow as it may sound, we can consider something as simple as
being able to make more money an accomplishment.

>>That is our
>downfall. And you just proved my EXACT point, so thank you.
>

like I said before, success is all relative to a person and the standards
that I measure my success by are different from someone elses. Bu

>
>Answer: What do you think the mindless pursuit of acquiring material things
>("real success" as you eloquently put it) is in essence? It is a way that
>we try to say "look, for so long, I couldn't have these things but now I
>do..." It is essentially, and maybe subconciously a quest for approval by
>this American society. Blacks strove for civil rights, integration, so that
>they could have the same things that whites have. Live in the same
>neighborhoods as whites do. Drive nice cars like whites did. If thats not a
>quest for acceptance, I don't know what is.
>
I think it was a quest more for acknowledgement to being entitled to the
same things than mere acceptance. Saying it was a quest for acceptance dumbs down
the civil rights movement.

>Question: Please tell me, I'm interested to know what you think are the
>pressing issues that we need to focus on?>
>

racism is still very much alive. but there are black folks everywhere who
think just because they're earning good money and living well that the
struggle is over and the war has been won. that everybody else who insists
that there are still problems is flogging a dead horse. the judicial system
is another issue that really really needs a focus. more and more now we hear
about and see people wrongfully imprisoned. education, employment, there are
so many things. these are the most obvious ones I can think of right now.


>
>Why would
>
>>>you want to stay in
>
>>>a country that has ruined
>
>>>you in so many ways
>
>>>physicall and mentally? If
>
>>>the ideals and fundamental of
>
>>>the constitution are really all
>
>>>that wonderful, then is the
>
>>>predicament of Blacks in America
>
>>>so fucked up now?
>
>>
I may be ruined physically but I am only as mentally ruined as I choose to be. and I speak for only me and not the entire black population when I say this because my circumstances are different from anyone elses. In theory I would want to stay in such a country because while it may be ruining me on some degree, it still is a place that offers the avenues by which I can heal myself, all in the same breath. it's a contradiction but a fact nontheless.


>
>Realize this. You will never, EVER fix what is ruined in this country.
>NEVER. I don't care if you lived a thousand lifetimes. It won't happen
>because the crutch that is held over us is one of ignorance and of mind
>control. The only way to battle those things are by educating people about
>their history, and about where they came from. I assure you, if you and
>others like you, knew HALF, just half the shit that has been taken away
>from Africans throughout history by Europeans, you would have no desire to
>dwell anywhere that they reside. Your focus would be on uniting your people
>and taking them back to the place called Africa.

First of all, I know just what has AND hasn't been taken from
Africans. And if you think that this country can't ever be fixed, well you
can almost say the same for Africa. I'm not going to assume what you do and
do not know about what's going on in some African countries - things that
the media has chosen not to even acknowledge. the future of Africa rests in
its youth, free from the grudges their fathers hold - only thing is that so
many of them are chosing to make lives from themselves in Europe, America
and elsewhere. I know what the reality is. the reality is that Africa was left in a state that gave it no choice but to depend on Europe to reach a standard that did not have them in mind when it was created, but rather was based on European ideals. Africans are infatuated with Europe in many different ways and at this point it's just easier to move to live in Europe and elsewhere than to try and rebuild the country and the continent. My saying that it would take millenias to "fix" Africa is an attempt to express my disillusionment with some parts of the continent. But given that we're discussing that in this thread is evidence that it might not take millenias afterall.

As far as taking "my people" back to the place called Africa, well sad but true, but they may not all want to go back.


As for the
>last sentence, I think its quite self explanatory. Someone in another
>response said that the cats who wrote the Declaration and the constitution
>were on to something. Well whatever they were onto obviously didn't involve
>helping Blacks in America, if it did, we would be flourishing, not
>floundering.
>
>
>>
>
>>um. . . but didn't they
>
>>do that already?? I think
>
>>that's why they left eventually.
>
>>they took what they wanted
>
>>and left the scraps to
>
>>the natives.
>
>
>
>Um...no, they didn't already do that. Did you think I just made up the fact
>about Africa having the most untapped resources on the planet? It is just
>that, FACT. And mark my words, Europeans are no where near finished using
>Africa for all its worth. Look it up if you don't trust my word, you'll
>find the truth.
>

Look, I know Africa was the wealthiest continent then, and it still has it's potential now but it's not in any degree the same.

>>
>
>>>and that's the God's honest truth.
>
>>so now what?
>
>
>
>I thought thats what these boards where supposed to do...answer that
>question. So now what? Got any ideas?
>
>
I was going to suggest waiting on Africa's youth to change Africa with their vision, only they're all dying with AIDS. honestly, I don't have a straight and simple answer.

>
>>that's really easy for you to
>
>>say. the only raping and
>
>>pillaging going on in Africa
>
>>as far as I know
>
>>is being done by the
>
>>Africans themselves. And sorry to
>
>>gray your blue skies but
>
>>it's going to take millenias
>
>>before Africa returns to its
>
>>former glory. In the meantime,
>
>>the fortunate who can make
>
>>their way out of the
>
>>beloved "dark continent" will continue
>
>>to do so.
>
>
>
>No, its easy for me to say because I know what I'm talking about. Trust me,
>there is nothing you could possibly say to ruin my blue skies. If you think
>that it is really going to take millenias to restore Africa, than you are
>one of the mentally enslaved. Your mind is on lockdown and you don't even
>know it. "As far as you know" all the pillaging has been done to Africa by
>Africans. Would it kill to look a little deeper than that. I used the
>Rwanda situation and apartheid as an example. People in Africa are not just
>arbitrarily warring or killing each other. These are feuds set in motion by
>Europeans to divide and conquer nations. And those who aren't killing over
>feuds, are doing it because they are starving, and their countries are
>being exploited for the natural resources that are rightly theirs. So
>before pointing fingers, please look at the ENTIRE picture. I'm sure your
>views would be much different. And for future reference, reffering to
>Africa as the "dark continent" is very insulting. That term was derrogatory
>and used by explorers and Europeans during the slave trade.
>

Sure the Europeans set the feuding in motion but they're long gone now. now they're not what we need to worry about. NOW Africans are killing Africans and NOW it doesn't matter who threw the first stone. we need to worry about ourselves NOW. and if we keep walking around saying that the Europeans are the reason Africa is in the state it's in, while that may be FACT, it's not solving the problem. Africans THEMSELVES need to look at the ENTIRE picture and get past ethnicity and boundaries.

I called Africa the "dark continent" because my Africa is still unfortunately very much the dark continent to the rest of the world. it was sarcasm. apologies if you were insulted.


>I thank you for responding to my post. It at least lets me know that people
>are out there and thinking, even if I disagree with them a little bit. I
>want for you to respond to this one if anything is unclear. I may be able
>to suggest some books that might bring some issues into clearer light.
>

Some books to read:
Facing Mount Kenya by Jomo Kenyatta
Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe
A Grain of Wheat by Ngugi wa Thion'go
Petals of Blood by Ngugi wa Thion'go

`````````````````````````````````````````
"She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the mastery of life." --Frances E. Willard, How I Learned to Ride the Bicycle


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mamazgun
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Thu Jul-12-01 06:07 AM

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75. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

>Do you? Well, thats cool. I call myself a realist, you differ. Its all
>good. To think that "real success" whatever that is, is measured by "having
>more of everything" is foolish. I suppose my first statement was a little
>unclear, perhaps I shouldn't have used the word success because
>unfortunately, it is defined by all those material things. We as blacks
>will never be able to escape the mental enslavery that we have been
>subjected to for so many years. The country was not designed for us to be
>free. We, and by we I mean blacks living in America, have been made to
>think for so long that material things are what account for accomplishment
>and achievement.

But they do account for accomplishment. people fought and died for blacks to
be able to live on the same level as their white counterparts. I wouldn't
discount that as not being an accomplishment. you may not find the value in
it but a movement for us to be equal on so many levels went on and because
of that, shallow as it may sound, we can consider something as simple as
being able to make more money an accomplishment.

>>That is our
>downfall. And you just proved my EXACT point, so thank you.
>

like I said before, success is all relative to a person and the standards
that I measure my success by are different from someone elses. Bu

>
>Answer: What do you think the mindless pursuit of acquiring material things
>("real success" as you eloquently put it) is in essence? It is a way that
>we try to say "look, for so long, I couldn't have these things but now I
>do..." It is essentially, and maybe subconciously a quest for approval by
>this American society. Blacks strove for civil rights, integration, so that
>they could have the same things that whites have. Live in the same
>neighborhoods as whites do. Drive nice cars like whites did. If thats not a
>quest for acceptance, I don't know what is.
>
I think it was a quest more for acknowledgement to being entitled to the
same things than mere acceptance. Saying it was a quest for acceptance dumbs down
the civil rights movement.

>Question: Please tell me, I'm interested to know what you think are the
>pressing issues that we need to focus on?>
>

racism is still very much alive. but there are black folks everywhere who
think just because they're earning good money and living well that the
struggle is over and the war has been won. that everybody else who insists
that there are still problems is flogging a dead horse. the judicial system
is another issue that really really needs a focus. more and more now we hear
about and see people wrongfully imprisoned. education, employment, there are
so many things. these are the most obvious ones I can think of right now.


>
>Why would
>
>>>you want to stay in
>
>>>a country that has ruined
>
>>>you in so many ways
>
>>>physicall and mentally? If
>
>>>the ideals and fundamental of
>
>>>the constitution are really all
>
>>>that wonderful, then is the
>
>>>predicament of Blacks in America
>
>>>so fucked up now?
>
>>
I may be ruined physically but I am only as mentally ruined as I choose to be. and I speak for only me and not the entire black population when I say this because my circumstances are different from anyone elses. In theory I would want to stay in such a country because while it may be ruining me on some degree, it still is a place that offers the avenues by which I can heal myself, all in the same breath. it's a contradiction but a fact nontheless.


>
>Realize this. You will never, EVER fix what is ruined in this country.
>NEVER. I don't care if you lived a thousand lifetimes. It won't happen
>because the crutch that is held over us is one of ignorance and of mind
>control. The only way to battle those things are by educating people about
>their history, and about where they came from. I assure you, if you and
>others like you, knew HALF, just half the shit that has been taken away
>from Africans throughout history by Europeans, you would have no desire to
>dwell anywhere that they reside. Your focus would be on uniting your people
>and taking them back to the place called Africa.

First of all, I know just what has AND hasn't been taken from
Africans. And if you think that this country can't ever be fixed, well you
can almost say the same for Africa. I'm not going to assume what you do and
do not know about what's going on in some African countries - things that
the media has chosen not to even acknowledge. the future of Africa rests in
its youth, free from the grudges their fathers hold - only thing is that so
many of them are chosing to make lives from themselves in Europe, America
and elsewhere. I know what the reality is. the reality is that Africa was left in a state that gave it no choice but to depend on Europe to reach a standard that did not have them in mind when it was created, but rather was based on European ideals. Africans are infatuated with Europe in many different ways and at this point it's just easier to move to live in Europe and elsewhere than to try and rebuild the country and the continent. My saying that it would take millenias to "fix" Africa is an attempt to express my disillusionment with some parts of the continent. But given that we're discussing that in this thread is evidence that it might not take millenias afterall.

As far as taking "my people" back to the place called Africa, well sad but true, but they may not all want to go back.


As for the
>last sentence, I think its quite self explanatory. Someone in another
>response said that the cats who wrote the Declaration and the constitution
>were on to something. Well whatever they were onto obviously didn't involve
>helping Blacks in America, if it did, we would be flourishing, not
>floundering.
>
>
>>
>
>>um. . . but didn't they
>
>>do that already?? I think
>
>>that's why they left eventually.
>
>>they took what they wanted
>
>>and left the scraps to
>
>>the natives.
>
>
>
>Um...no, they didn't already do that. Did you think I just made up the fact
>about Africa having the most untapped resources on the planet? It is just
>that, FACT. And mark my words, Europeans are no where near finished using
>Africa for all its worth. Look it up if you don't trust my word, you'll
>find the truth.
>

Look, I know Africa was the wealthiest continent then, and it still has it's potential now but it's not in any degree the same.

>>
>
>>>and that's the God's honest truth.
>
>>so now what?
>
>
>
>I thought thats what these boards where supposed to do...answer that
>question. So now what? Got any ideas?
>
>
I was going to suggest waiting on Africa's youth to change Africa with their vision, only they're all dying with AIDS. honestly, I don't have a straight and simple answer.

>
>>that's really easy for you to
>
>>say. the only raping and
>
>>pillaging going on in Africa
>
>>as far as I know
>
>>is being done by the
>
>>Africans themselves. And sorry to
>
>>gray your blue skies but
>
>>it's going to take millenias
>
>>before Africa returns to its
>
>>former glory. In the meantime,
>
>>the fortunate who can make
>
>>their way out of the
>
>>beloved "dark continent" will continue
>
>>to do so.
>
>
>
>No, its easy for me to say because I know what I'm talking about. Trust me,
>there is nothing you could possibly say to ruin my blue skies. If you think
>that it is really going to take millenias to restore Africa, than you are
>one of the mentally enslaved. Your mind is on lockdown and you don't even
>know it. "As far as you know" all the pillaging has been done to Africa by
>Africans. Would it kill to look a little deeper than that. I used the
>Rwanda situation and apartheid as an example. People in Africa are not just
>arbitrarily warring or killing each other. These are feuds set in motion by
>Europeans to divide and conquer nations. And those who aren't killing over
>feuds, are doing it because they are starving, and their countries are
>being exploited for the natural resources that are rightly theirs. So
>before pointing fingers, please look at the ENTIRE picture. I'm sure your
>views would be much different. And for future reference, reffering to
>Africa as the "dark continent" is very insulting. That term was derrogatory
>and used by explorers and Europeans during the slave trade.
>

Sure the Europeans set the feuding in motion but they're long gone now. now they're not what we need to worry about. NOW Africans are killing Africans and NOW it doesn't matter who threw the first stone. we need to worry about ourselves NOW. and if we keep walking around saying that the Europeans are the reason Africa is in the state it's in, while that may be FACT, it's not solving the problem. Africans THEMSELVES need to look at the ENTIRE picture and get past ethnicity and boundaries.

I called Africa the "dark continent" because my Africa is still unfortunately very much the dark continent to the rest of the world. it was sarcasm. apologies if you were insulted.


>I thank you for responding to my post. It at least lets me know that people
>are out there and thinking, even if I disagree with them a little bit. I
>want for you to respond to this one if anything is unclear. I may be able
>to suggest some books that might bring some issues into clearer light.
>

Some books to read:
Facing Mount Kenya by Jomo Kenyatta
Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe
A Grain of Wheat by Ngugi wa Thion'go
Petals of Blood by Ngugi wa Thion'go

`````````````````````````````````````````
"She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the mastery of life." --Frances E. Willard, How I Learned to Ride the Bicycle


Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of bir

  

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sistasoul
Charter member
876 posts
Thu Jul-12-01 06:19 AM

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76. "Thank you"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          



I'm very glad you replied because your response showed me that you an I actually agree on most of the issues that are being discussed. The issues that you deem important to our race are also the ones that I see. I hope none of what I said came off offensively, because I honestly wanted to know what your thoughts were. As for the boooks, I've read all but one, and will look for that one at my earliest convenience. Again, thanks.





~Peace





"I'm an African, never was an African American..." - Dead Prez

~~~~~~welcome to my sig~~~~~~~

"Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves."- Gandalf, 'The Two Towers'

"...the doper that I get the more I'm feeling broke as shit..."- Dre 3000

  

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mamazgun
Charter member
330 posts
Thu Jul-12-01 02:54 PM

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78. "re: thank you"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

yeah, that's peace.

`````````````````````````````````````````
"She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the mastery of life." --Frances E. Willard, How I Learned to Ride the Bicycle


Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of bir

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Thu Jul-12-01 03:52 PM

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79. "You know, that's cute but"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

seriously. I like being able to go to the grocery store 24 hours a day.

I like movies.

I like CDs.

I like the American infrastructure (roads, water, power, gas, heat, etc.).

...all the really BASIC things we have here. I don't take those for granted. And I know I can't get them anywhere else in the way I have access to them here. I feel really fortunate.

Again, I have to thank my mother for giving me this perspective. Before her trip last year, she was dreaming of moving to Cuba, Haiti...or anyplace where she'd see more brown ppl than white 1s. It took 1 month in East Africa (Tanzania & Zimbabwe) before she saw just how much she depends on things like reliable running water. Even in the capital cities, she saw she wouldn't be able to adapt well.

But that's just me.

_______________________

  

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sistasoul
Charter member
876 posts
Fri Jul-13-01 04:14 AM

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81. "RE: You know, that's cute but"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          



>I like the American infrastructure (roads,

>water, power, gas, heat, etc.).

>...all the really BASIC things we

>have here. I don't

>take those for granted.

>And I know I can't

>get them anywhere else in

>the way I have access

>to them here. I

>feel really fortunate.





I mean, thats understandable, we've all grown accustomed to the ways of America. I'll admit, its nice and a priveledge to have all those things, and yes we are very fortunate. But me, personally, I am not willing to compromise in order to have those things. In other words, I'm not willing to give up my freedom (because we aren't free here), my mind, my dignity, nothing in exchange for a CD or a movie. I would rather go to countries, not necessarily in Africa, but that have a majority of Africans living there (ie, Caribbean Islands) and improve the living conditions for them. If these places are not "comfortable" for blacks in America, why not help them to have at least minimal necessities like running water, and indoor plumbing? Staying over here and basking in our fortunes is not helping anyone is it? But thats just me...



~Peace



"I'm an African, never was an African American..." - Dead Prez










~~~~~~welcome to my sig~~~~~~~

"Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves."- Gandalf, 'The Two Towers'

"...the doper that I get the more I'm feeling broke as shit..."- Dre 3000

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Sat Jul-14-01 08:47 AM

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83. "So, where exactly is this place?"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

Where is this place where the Black ppl are more free than we are here in America?

Are you saying that just b/c a country has a majority of Blacks in it, that means all those Black ppl are free? Hell, all "white" ppl in America ain't free and this is "their" nation!

I'm really curious as to how you think you will do as a woman in some of these places you're talking about. I'm under the impression that women in America are doing far better than women in most other parts of the world. But maybe I'm wrong.

_______________________

  

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sistasoul
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Sun Jul-15-01 04:52 AM

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85. "RE: So, where exactly is this place?"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

Where is this place where the Black ppl are more free than we are here in America?



I wish there was such a place. My argument isn't that if we move somewhere else we are automatically going to be free. If only that were true. What my opinion is, is that we as people of African decent should be trying to help the situation of people in Africa as well as the Black people in America. Me, personally, I want to be the person who goes to Africa and other African countries and tries to do just that. There are plenty of people right here in America willing to stay and work in this country. But I would choose to join forces with people of with a similar goal and travel. Its all a matter of choice. I wouldn't try to impose mine on anyone. But I still think that if Black people want to stay in America, it should be for a cause and not just because they enjoy the "perks."



"Are you saying that just b/c a country has a majority of Blacks in it, that means all those Black ppl are free? Hell, all"white" ppl in America ain't free and this is "their" nation! "



That point is true. Africans in Africa are in some ways more in bondage than we are over here. They are victims of brutalization as well, and victims of European colonialism. But the long term mental conditioning is something that Blacks in America suffer from more than anywhere else. But that doesn't mean that something can't be done. And if white people in America aren't free, I have a hard time feeling sympathy for them. Blacks (as well as indigenous people) were the race who were stripped of so many vital things in the United States. And furthermore, I am in no way concerned with the freedom of whites. In the end, liberation for us is going to have to come in the form of a mind revolution. Africans in the diaspora are going to have to attempt to reverse all those years of conditioning that has been a result of European influence. It is not a movement that will necessarily be fought with physical weapons, but with education, consciousness, and mental warfare.



"I'm really curious as to how >you think you will do as a woman in someof these places you're talking about. I'm under the

impression that women in America are doing far better than

women in most other parts of the world. But maybe I'm wrong."



No, you're not wrong. Women in other countries, I think especially in some African countries, are considered to be less than equal to men. But, come on, I'm not going to let something like that stop me. If every person who believed in something gave up their fight because a group of people thought they were inferior, were would we be now? Maybe I will encounter more hardships, maybe I will fail, but I damn sure am going to try.

And, I always say this, but thank you for responding to, and disagreeing with (sometimes), and questioning what I say in my post, because it makes me re-evaluate and think about what I've said. And although most times my opinion is still the same, it never hurts to look deeper.



~Peace





"I'm an African, never was an African American..." - Dead Prez

~~~~~~welcome to my sig~~~~~~~

"Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves."- Gandalf, 'The Two Towers'

"...the doper that I get the more I'm feeling broke as shit..."- Dre 3000

  

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HotThyng76
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Sun Jul-15-01 11:06 AM

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86. "I agree w/you wholeheartedly."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

Thanks for responding.

_______________________

  

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JMello

Sat Jul-14-01 08:47 PM

  
84. "RE: Would you...(FACT CHECK)"
In response to Reply # 54


          

>Yes, there are problems
>in Africa, but who did
>they stem from?? Europeans!
> South Africans didn't implement
>apartheid BY THEMSELVES! It
>was put into effect by
>the British. But you
>want to go to England??

IMPORTANT FACT CHECK: The Dutch and their descendents implemented apartheid and imposed the Afrikaans language. The British and their descendents in South Africa were overwhelmingly opposed to apartheid. Why do you think the English language was a form of protest for the black South Africans?

JMello

"Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is - the death tax is."

"Si, I'm very concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation for the growth of cocoa leaves."

"...it's about past 7 here, so we're actually in different timelines."

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but my predecessors, as well. And that's why I made the decision."

"I'm about to name my brother the ambassador to Chad."

"They don't seem to be flocking in right now, but it is dove season in Texas. I'm a hunter and if I decide to shoot some dove, I'll shoot 'em and eat 'em."

--President-Select George W. Bush--

  

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mamazgun
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Mon Jul-16-01 12:59 AM

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87. "RE: Would you...(FACT CHECK)"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

check these pages out:

http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~cale/cs201/apartheid.hist.html

http://www.facts.com/cd/o94317.htm


>IMPORTANT FACT CHECK: The Dutch
>and their descendents implemented apartheid
>and imposed the Afrikaans language.
>The British and their descendents
>in South Africa were overwhelmingly
>opposed to apartheid. Why
>do you think the English
>language was a form of
>protest for the black South
>Africans?
>
>JMello

`````````````````````````````````````````
"She who succeeds in gaining the mastery of the bicycle will gain the mastery of life." --Frances E. Willard, How I Learned to Ride the Bicycle


Bicycling is the nearest approximation I know to the flight of bir

  

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digitalcaptive

Thu Jul-12-01 03:24 AM

  
70. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

if you have money you can live anywhere well at or above the same standard as in america.

if you're poor or middle class AND soft, then western europe, scandanavia and north america (excluding mexico) would be your best places to live.

if you havent lived in a "less developed" environment before, dont even try it unless you know what you are getting into..........it's incredible how "soft" many westerners are. somebody brought up the topic of what you do if america was attacked. a better question to me is what would americans do if they lost the ability to use their appliances and other luxuries.

more people probably die that way.............


  

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Roi Boi
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Thu Jul-12-01 03:36 AM

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71. "You're a guy?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

What the??

  

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HotThyng76
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51232 posts
Thu Jul-12-01 05:10 AM

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74. "What'd you think?"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          


_______________________

  

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MISSMOE
Charter member
3091 posts
Thu Jul-12-01 07:49 AM

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77. "RE: Would you live anywhere else?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

don't really know? i've lived in 4 different states in the us and haven't really found home yet. I've discussed with my family moving to the west indies which is where they are from (i'm only a 2nd generation amaerican). i must say though that i enjoy many of the perks being an american and i'm not sure i'd want to give that up. plus, my family is extremely important to me and i couldn't leave them to go to far abroad for a greatly extended period of time. so, the US is fine for me as long as i can continue to travel abroad whenever i want to. there are too many countries where ppl have to sneak out just to visit another country. i'm not trying to go through all that. if america turns into that kind of state then i'd have to reconsider.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
when the revolution afros are gonna be trying to wear straighten heads and straightened heads are gonna try to wear afros---the last poets

31 yrs ago i would've been a panther--dead prez

you gon eat chur corn bread?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What would you do if you could not fail?

  

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