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SankofaII
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30751 posts
Tue Jul-17-01 07:59 PM

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"Black Folk And Suicide"


  

          

just got an interesting article in my hotmail account today..thoughts?

The Black Race And Suicide
By Deardra Shuler

"The Black race needs the help of a good psychiatrist," said a friend as we
chatted in a neighborhood restaurant. "African Americans did not have the
opportunity to wander in the desert 40 years (which was more like 400 years)
to enable them to shake off the rigors of slavery as did the biblical Jews
and walk as a new generation into the promise land," she pointed out. "For
us, slavery never really ended. We went from slavery to Jim Crow; from
physical chains to emotional chains, from mental chains to financial ones.
And, the ties that bind have never really been cut loose."

It seems we are a people in need of a healing but cannot seem to find a safe
haven in which to Lay Our Burdens Down.

Dr. Alvin Pouissant, a clinical professor of psychiatry and faculty associate
dean for student affairs at Harvard Medical School; Director of the Media
Center at the Judge Baker Children's Center in Boston and writer Amy
Alexander, author of 'Fifty Black Women Who Changed America', recently
co-authored and collaborated on a book entitled, "Lay My Burden Down."

In their book, Pouissant and Alexander address the devastation of slavery and
the aftermath of pain and low self esteem that has over the years chiseled
away at the fiber of the Black bravado. It's torn a rent in our will as a
people to stand strong through all adversity. It seems Black people are
caving in under the rigors of institutionalized racism in America and many
are no longer able to keep hope alive. Some have simply turned to suicide as
an alternative to ending their hopelessness and despair.

"Suicides among Black youths increased 114% from 1980 to 1995, even as the
total suicide rate in America declined dramatically during this period,"
claimed Dr. Pouissant, whose brother Kenneth killed himself. Although, it
would not have been commonly thought of as a suicide. Kenneth killed himself
through years of heroin abuse. "Years of self-destructive behavior robbed my
brother of his life just as surely as any bullet could have," lamented the
psychiatrist. "There is a thing called victim precipitated suicide, as well
as something called suicide-by-cop." This is when the victims do not want to
kill themselves by their own hand but go out and put themselves in situations
so something or someone else can," claimed the former Chairman of the Board
of Directors of PUSH for Excellence. "The rate of suicide among Black men is
six times the rate of Black women and continues to go up. The homicide rate
of Black people is so high it is off the charts. It is Black people killing
other Black people," continued Pouissant. "If we consider that homicide is
another form of self destructive behavior and is the devaluation of your own
life as well as the lives of other Black people, we could consider this as an
expression of suicide in a way. Because it is a fatalistic way of showing our
disregard for living."

Alexander and Pouissant in their book and, at a book promotion lecture
addressed how many white physicians, through lack of understanding or through
their own bias, have not known how to treat Black patients. Blacks often do
not express their illnesses in the same way Whites do. These doctors cannot
relate to, or understand how Black people have internalized racism to such a
degree it literally affects them both mentally and physically. They can't
understand the pressures of racism or the day-to-day subtleties of it. Whites
do not experience being followed when entering a store, they are not made to
feel that their coloration is a negative, or are stopped on the New Jersey
Turnpike for no other reason than the color of their skin.


"If a Black person were to complain to a medical doctor about being in
fear of being killed by a cop, of internal pains or emotional distress as a
result, many of these doctors, would not have the sensitivity or common
reference point to understand his patient's concerns and would most likely
diagnose it as paranoid delusions," said Pouissant. It has been part of Black
training to stand strong as a result of their negative experiences with the
medical community and American racism. "Black people as a whole, have seen
mental illness as a taboo and have not sought out medical treatment, fearing
it would be a sign of weakness or that others would label them crazy. Blacks
have also experienced racism and bias when dealing with doctors and find the
cold clinical demeanor of these doctors off putting," explained Dr. Pouissant.

Although slavery ended hundreds of years ago, the consequence of it remains
with Black people to this day. Slavery continues to extract a heavy toll.
Under slavery and segregation Blacks were made to feel inferior. Not having
any release, except through their families and churches, they turned their
anger within. As a result, Blacks began to feel a growing sense of
helplessness, a loss of pride and self-esteem that brought about a general
malaise. The race has formulated a self-hatred that continues to manifest
itself in several forms. The anti-women, violent message of Rap music is a
fine example of how Black people denigrate each other and express rage. There
is a pathology to this, a root cause. This must be faced up to so that Blacks
can come to terms with why Blacks behave the way they do. Why they have
internalized anger and why they have continued to externalize it through
greater instances of violence. A violence that is far to often enacted
against one another. For example, during the riots Black people did not tear
up the white communities they tore up their own. They turned the violence
against themselves. African Americans, as a people, have to look at that in
order to heal themselves.

"The deterioration of the extended family which heretofore served to bind
Black people together; the unemployment rate among Blacks; drug and alcohol
abuse; these elements, combined with a persistent sense of despair, creates
an atmosphere where hopelessness can flourish," claimed Amy Alexander, also a
media columnist at Africana.com and editor of the Farrakhan Factor: African
American Writers on Leadership, Nationhood, and Minister Louis Farrakhan.
"Whenever acute hopelessness is present within an individual, suicide to
them, can seem a valid option," said Alexander, whose brother Carl killed
himself in 1979 by leaping from a rooftop.

"Even those more affluent Blacks that seem to be making it through higher
education do not escape racism. They may find themselves alone, with few
other Blacks holding professional positions. And, they of course, are
expected to perform at least twice as well as Whites doing the same job,"
remarked Alexander. "We also have the situation where African Americans are
very much accustomed to wanting to bear up under difficult circumstances.
This has to do with our history and our ability to will away problems in an
effort to control our own lives. Which can be a good thing. However, I find
that there is a propensity for too many Blacks to deny these psychological
pressures which could eventually come to over shadow our health and become a
self defeating, self-fulfilling prophesy," explained the writer.

"Lay My Burden Down" is a thought-provoking book. It addresses an issue that
has lingered in the dark recesses of a civilization that has refused to deal
with the soul scarring and poisonous effects of racism on a people. It
addresses issues that hitherto have not been dealt with by many factions of
this society not only by the people who created it but also by those who have
lived under it.

"Lay My Burden Down" has stripped bare the abomination of racism and its
evil outcome. An outcome that has torn asunder a people, causing some to
prefer death to life. In exposing Black suicide, Dr. Alvin Pouissant and Amy
Alexander have laid the burden down at the feet of white America. They offer
a challenge to both Blacks and Whites to face what is truly a national
problem, while encouraging both to work together to come up with lasting
solutions to a problem that has for far to long been a national disgrace.

End - CBM
Ryan

Words To Think About And Live By:


"...and when we speak we are afraid our words will not
be heard nor welcomed but when we are silent we are
still afraid. So it is better to speak remembering we
were never meant to survive." -- "A Litany for
Survival" by Audre Lorde


Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
i plan to read that book...
Jul 17th 2001
1
Long Overdue....
MoBetter
Jul 17th 2001
2
Long Overdue .....
MoBetter
Jul 17th 2001
3
rgv posted sum sht abt suicide here a ways back
Jul 18th 2001
4
no, it's not. i hope she sees this.
Jul 18th 2001
5
This is for everyone
Jul 18th 2001
6
UP for RGV! n/m
Jul 18th 2001
7
The Theory of Black Suicide presents a question
Jul 18th 2001
8
      RE: The Theory of Black Suicide presents a question
Jul 18th 2001
10
      RE: The Theory of Black Suicide presents a question
Jul 19th 2001
16
           RE: The Theory of Black Suicide presents a question
Jul 19th 2001
17
                I Hate Myself?
Jul 19th 2001
18
                RE: I Hate Myself?
Jul 19th 2001
20
                     We live in Western Civilization?
Jul 19th 2001
21
                No one said its not about race
Jul 19th 2001
19
      what?
Jul 18th 2001
12
      RE: The Theory of Black Suicide presents a question
Jul 18th 2001
13
RE: Black Folk And Suicide
Jul 18th 2001
9
hello?
Jul 20th 2001
22
      RE: hello?
Jul 20th 2001
23
           thanks for your input n/m
Jul 20th 2001
26
RE: Black Folk And Suicide
Jul 18th 2001
11
the suicide manifesto is coming soon!!!!
Jul 18th 2001
14
suicide manifesto
Jul 18th 2001
15
      read a chapter in a book about htis actually
Jul 20th 2001
24
      RE: suicide manifesto
Jul 20th 2001
25

LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Tue Jul-17-01 10:59 PM

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1. "i plan to read that book..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and I'm glad someone finally wrote it...we need to do more to understand what is going on with Black people psychologically as a part of our healing process.

I can see some of the replies now...but I hope that as the word gets out, more people can understand this is NOT about some weird paranoia Black people suffer from. This is a real consequence of living day to day as a Black person in this society. And it needs to be dealt with.


~~~SPITFIRE: AUGUST 23, 2001~~~
HipHop. Old school style. In Full Effect. Want Info? Email: carameldom@hotmail.com

"to get inside this head of mine/would take a monkey wrench/and a lot of wine" ~~Res

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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MoBetter

Tue Jul-17-01 11:18 PM

  
2. "Long Overdue...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Mo'

http://www.ballerwear.net


"I knew you were crazy, you just had to do/say something to prove it."

"You seemed intelligent......then you opened your mouth........NOW GET THE @#$%&!! AWAY FROM ME !!!!"


"If I can help somebody along the way, then my living will not be in vain."





  

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MoBetter

Tue Jul-17-01 11:50 PM

  
3. "Long Overdue ....."
In response to Reply # 0


          

This is a topic that needs to be discussed on a regular basis in not only in the Black communities, but in medical (mental health) circles as well. Often times I pick up on the subtleness of racial discrimination in going shopping, when always being monitored when going into stores, receiving poor service when dining out, only to have it justified by them saying,"You weren't going to tip anyway", or having folk clutch their purses or lock their car doors when I cross the street.

These things take a toll on you physically and mentally, and if you aren't strong mentally, and sure of yourself, and believe that you're wonderfully made, then you could buy into that self-hate mentality, because folk won't except you for who you are. That war within yourself will cause you to do crazy things, as the writer mentioned in the article. It's long overdue for the medical clinicians to address these issues, and not write them off as paranoia, but as valid cause for ones' mental state.

Mo'

http://www.ballerwear.net


"I knew you were crazy, you just had to do/say something to prove it."

"You seemed intelligent......then you opened your mouth........NOW GET THE @#$%&!! AWAY FROM ME !!!!"


"If I can help somebody along the way, then my living will not be in vain."





  

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guerilla_love
Charter member
8273 posts
Wed Jul-18-01 12:47 AM

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4. "rgv posted sum sht abt suicide here a ways back"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i hope it was archived......


==**peace**==

"baby,
I'd draw yuh bath
like Picasso..

pick you,
like fruit
off yuh family tree. &
eatcha' honeydew ass,
wet"

-Giovanni, rhythmic poet extraordinaire

i believe in education and empowerment through art. i believe that movements happen when ideas are set to music. bodies and people come together through dance and movement, eyes awaken in the face of a good movie, and whatever ya gotta say is useless unless you can use these tools to reach right into people

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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guerilla_love
Charter member
8273 posts
Wed Jul-18-01 12:59 AM

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5. "no, it's not. i hope she sees this."
In response to Reply # 4


          

==**peace**==

"baby,
I'd draw yuh bath
like Picasso..

pick you,
like fruit
off yuh family tree. &
eatcha' honeydew ass,
wet"

-Giovanni, rhythmic poet extraordinaire

i believe in education and empowerment through art. i believe that movements happen when ideas are set to music. bodies and people come together through dance and movement, eyes awaken in the face of a good movie, and whatever ya gotta say is useless unless you can use these tools to reach right into people

"The logic of divide and rule is still valid today." Capleton

DomePoem Poets; Vibe Nation; One ppl under the spoken word

.....

"Who need fossil fuel when the sun ain't goin' nowhere"
- Amiri Baraka

http://www.okayplayer.com/guidelines

BUY MY BOOK- only $6! Inbox me for details

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Wed Jul-18-01 01:29 AM

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6. "This is for everyone"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

All the white folks who think we should leave the past in the past and move on should read this. All the Black folks who are suffering and don't understand why should read this. All the people who think Black people are equal to everyone else should read this.

Also, it's important to be careful when discussing the souls of Black folk. Some Black people are able to deal with adversity effectively and they are models for people struggling with living in this society. Some people may read this and think that it's hopeless for Black folks. Many people have not spent enough time on addressing the real issues and challenges facing Black people living in the system.

I escaped suicide by learning how to reframe the situations in my life that seemed out of my control. I developed a climber mentality and later I became more spiritually connected. I am focused on turning obstacles into opportunities.

"Trials and tribulations make you stronger live longer
You wanna reach the nation nigga start from your corner
Everything in life don't always happen like you plan it
Demand it, overstand it, then you handle it
Fuck wishing, you missing the ambition in your mission
Now you switching, why you quitting 'cuz it's heat in the kitchen?
--Big Boi

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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SankofaII
Charter member
30751 posts
Wed Jul-18-01 08:09 AM

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7. "UP for RGV! n/m"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Words To Think About And Live By:


"...and when we speak we are afraid our words will not
be heard nor welcomed but when we are silent we are
still afraid. So it is better to speak remembering we
were never meant to survive." -- "A Litany for
Survival" by Audre Lorde


Get Out the Room
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Some of y'all need this in your life: http://www.psychology.com

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
Charter member
49387 posts
Wed Jul-18-01 08:31 AM

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8. "The Theory of Black Suicide presents a question"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          


Even though black suicide is on the rise it is still significantly less than white suicide. If the authors theory is that Black suicide is a manifestation of the ongoing suffering of Black people in this COuntry. than does the fact that White Suicide is higher mean that White People Suffer more?

*****

Bored at Work.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Wed Jul-18-01 10:12 AM

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10. "RE: The Theory of Black Suicide presents a question"
In response to Reply # 8


          

>
>Even though black suicide is on
>the rise it is still
>significantly less than white suicide.
> If the authors theory
>is that Black suicide is
>a manifestation of the ongoing
>suffering of Black people in
>this COuntry. than does
>the fact that White Suicide
>is higher mean that White
>People Suffer more?
>
>*****
>

Just cause your bored doesn't give an excuse to what seemed to me a sarcastic retort/question. First of all there are more white people in America than there are blacks so in terms of white people suffering more? lol I don't know but Sick (Western) civilization takes it's toll on everybody.

White people just cannot comprehend our contempt for this place. They figure, "I'm comfortable, how come you aren't?". They can't look past the thought of themselves.

But on the real I recentley (last month) had a friend who hung himself. The family was in real shock and disbelief until the letter he wrote and sent off b4 he hung himself was delivered to his parents. I mean a lot had always been going on and had happened to dude. Last year he caught his ex-wife cheating, his moms never treated him good. Pops was an ex-con who use to steal from him and kick his ass, even until the time up to his suicide. His pops would steal from him, then whoop his ass (with fists) for accusing him of stealing.
To make the long story short, he had moved to his girlfriends (an obeise, ugly white girl) in a small town. Got into a fight with ole girl and next thing you know he's hanging from a tree. At first my friends and I thought he had been lynched, but that was not the case. He had attempted suicide b4 so that put our speculations to rest. His parents at first couldn't believe he was with that fat white girl, but considering his level of self-esteem, and things he had said to me in the recent past it all made sense.

This is another reason I wanted to start up an okayactivists group to combat problems like this in our community. Self-hate is manifesting it's self into more visible proof. I don't think black and latino suicide is going to go down unless we confront it.

peaces



"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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49387 posts
Thu Jul-19-01 03:52 AM

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16. "RE: The Theory of Black Suicide presents a question"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


>
>Just cause your bored doesn't give
>an excuse to what seemed
>to me a sarcastic retort/question.


DOn't need an excuse and I wasn't being Sarcastic, jerky. (Now I am).

> First of all there
>are more white people in
>America than there are blacks
>so in terms of white
>people suffering more? lol

I was attempting to point out the fact that suicide is far more prevalant in White people than black people. Not just in real numbers, but percentage wise. SO it is hard to make the case that suicide is an isolated problem in the Black community. Since it

>I don't know but Sick
>(Western) civilization takes it's toll
>on everybody.

My point exactly. Since it not just an isolated problem affecting Black people, than the problem is bigger than racism.



>White people just cannot comprehend our
>contempt for this place.

Move.

>They figure, "I'm comfortable, how
>come you aren't?". They
>can't look past the thought
>of themselves.

Not those White folks sucking on exhaust pipe.


I am really sorry to hear about your friends tragedy, but my only pointy is that his problem was bigger than racism.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Thu Jul-19-01 06:17 AM

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17. "RE: The Theory of Black Suicide presents a question"
In response to Reply # 16


          

>
>>
>>Just cause your bored doesn't give
>>an excuse to what seemed
>>to me a sarcastic retort/question.
>
>
>DOn't need an excuse and I
>wasn't being Sarcastic, jerky. (Now
>I am).

lol
jerky? lol

>I was attempting to point out
>the fact that suicide is
>far more prevalant in White
>people than black people.
>Not just in real numbers,
>but percentage wise. SO
>it is hard to make
>the case that suicide is
>an isolated problem in the
>Black community. Since it

The reason why it's more prevelant in white communities is because white Americans live the biggest lie. They try to act like nothings going wrong. Like Colombine in Denver. Those crazy kids parents screaming out why did their kids do that, but still got a gun rack in the house. WTF!?! The hypocracy, lies,hate, & shallowness white America rains upon people everyday can break you down on both a mental and physical level.
Make the connection cracka!
Suicide has always been a big problem in Euro-cities. When Paris and London started to become great metropolitan places their suicide issue was outta control. They literally had cities full of depressed people. Why? Western Civilization and thought limits a human to the point of madness. It's sick. Makes you feel meaningless. Why do you think everyone in the U.S. wants to be a star. So they can say their life meant something. America sends you searching for the wrong things like material items (which we accumulate in a sick fashion). I mean American names don't mean shit. Goldsmith(son of a gold smith), Williamson (Son of williams), etc. Wack shit. How can you be born with no meaning? We as humans search for a definition of who we are/that's our whole mission for existance (I'm sure most of you will disagree).

>>I don't know but Sick
>>(Western) civilization takes it's toll
>>on everybody.
>
>My point exactly. Since it not
>just an isolated problem affecting
>Black people, than the problem
>is bigger than racism.

Bigger than racism? It co-exists hand in hand. This discussion is about suicide in the black community. We know crackaz be offin themselves cause they missed NSYNC appearance on Dawsons Creek. But suicide in our community has become a bigger issue as the years progress. You coming in here raising the question you did makes me see your own self hatred. I feel your comments are saying to us that you value white life more than you do black.
I think you need to read the article again.
Black people wake up everymorning dealing with self-hatred. And that is so real. From blacks not eating watermelon cause of stereo types, to blacks who still use bleaching cream, to blac people perming their hair, to black people who feel black colleges are inferior, etc.

This next line is typical of big headed foolish Americans.
>>White people just cannot comprehend our
>>contempt for this place.
>
>Move.

Can you think of a better response. Don't be a fool. And don't be so arrogant. Search for more Understanding. You sound like some cold war cracker sayin that.
But what are you really trying to say? That the pressures of racism that black people feel is just paranoia? That you know our reality better than we do? lol
Why are there always people on these boards intent on defending the work of the devil
I detect the sickness of white supremacy in your responses. On the real there's so much more in life to feel.
Mental Slavery's a muthaf***a!

>>They figure, "I'm comfortable, how
>>come you aren't?". They
>>can't look past the thought
>>of themselves.
>
>Not those White folks sucking on
>exhaust pipe.
Like I said white folks have always been committing suicide. White civilization, no matter how you look at it is sick!!

>I am really sorry to hear
>about your friends tragedy, but
>my only pointy is that
>his problem was bigger than
>racism.

Thank you for your condolences. But you need to stop putting everything into categories. Everything is unified so you can't say there's no connection. From his pops being in and out of jail all his life, to the white girlfriend he had. I don't see how people be poppin out now a days talkin about IT ain't about Race!!! How are people gonna say it ain't about race all of a sudden when it's been about race for the past 500 years!!!
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!
SHITS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES.

peaces
PS3

"Last month my man put a pistol to his temple/I said nah son not that it's too simple."--Steel CoaCoa Bruvaz.




"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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49387 posts
Thu Jul-19-01 09:07 AM

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18. "I Hate Myself?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          



I wouldn't trade my life with anybody in the world. I have a happy fulfilling life. My parents endowed with a sense of purpose and self-worth. They've given me the ambition to make the world a better place. And for all the ills in the world, I still think that God made a beautiful place. And you want to convince me that I hate myself. Simply by reading a post a wrote? Get Real.

Since we are attempting to put people in boxes, let me give it a shot. I'd say that your an unhappy and angry person looking for a souce of your unhappiness. I'd say its easy to blame Western Civilization for the all the problems in society. Do you really think that the world would be a much better place if an Eastern Civilization was dominate? Your Trumpet of Oppression only plays one note.

*****

Bored at Work.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Thu Jul-19-01 10:53 AM

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20. "RE: I Hate Myself?"
In response to Reply # 18


          

>

>
>Since we are attempting to put
>people in boxes, let me
>give it a shot.
>I'd say that your an
>unhappy and angry person looking
>for a souce of your
>unhappiness. I'd say its easy
>to blame Western Civilization for
>the all the problems in
>society. Do you really
>think that the world would
>be a much better place
>if an Eastern Civilization was
>dominate? Your Trumpet of
>Oppression only plays one note.
>
>

My trumpet of Opression? lol What?
By the way our society is Western Civilization if you didn't know. We live in a Euro-centric society. And if you think otherwise your def dumb and blind. It must hurt.
I didn't give any reference to any eastern religion or school of thought. I believe if we used the Infinite Powers within us as humans we wouldn't even need a so called "Society".
You're right. I am unhappy and angry and this savage way we live here in America. We live in sickness. I want to progress. I want all people to progress.

Excuse me for making any hasty sarcastic statements. I'm only human, but I'm trying to progress as stated before.
peaces
PS3

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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21. "We live in Western Civilization?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          


What made you think that I didn't know we live in Western Civilization? I use the East as an example of a competing set of values. My point is all civilizations have pain and suffering, Have and Have nots. Tension between groups of people. Therefore I think your overall gripe is with the Human Condition, not just Western Civilization.

I threw in the Trumpet of Oppresion line because I figured you earthy cats dig that type of talk.
*****

Bored at Work.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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Buddy_Gilapagos
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Thu Jul-19-01 09:09 AM

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19. "No one said its not about race"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          


I am just saying that it bigger than race. Wake up to what exactly? Are you seeing something that I am not?


*****

Bored at Work.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

  

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LexM
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Wed Jul-18-01 02:52 PM

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12. "what?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

the point of the article and the book is not statistics or numbers or who kills themselves more. it's about the psychological toll the racism and ignorance of this nation can have on a person & group of people.

don't miss the forest for the trees.



~~~SPITFIRE: AUGUST 23, 2001~~~
HipHop. Old school style. In Full Effect. Want Info? Email: carameldom@hotmail.com

"to get inside this head of mine/would take a monkey wrench/and a lot of wine" ~~Res

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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cued
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Wed Jul-18-01 05:52 PM

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13. "RE: The Theory of Black Suicide presents a question"
In response to Reply # 8


          

I think what it represents is that because white people are closer to white culture, that source of sorrows, that they feel it more accutely and off themselves more....

White culture... Eurocentric culture... Western culture... is just bad... that is the end product and result... when you think about it... how geared it is on destruction....

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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SampolinMoAko
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Wed Jul-18-01 09:49 AM

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9. "RE: Black Folk And Suicide"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

interesting article, thanks for posting.
i agree with everything everyone has replied so far. it is especially important to have discussions about how disease/disorder (be it mental or physical) tends to present itself differently in different populations. doctors/therapists who are responsible for making these diagnoses often are not as aware as they should be.

i only had one problem and it was this generalization:

"The anti-women, violent message of Rap music is a
fine example of how Black people denigrate each other and express rage."

perhaps it would have been better to say "the anti-women, violent messages in SOME rap music..." this is important because it's taking a black artform and putting it in such a negative light. nevermind making a HUGE generalization about one genre of music. this in itself is a common (and racist) generalization that needs to be changed. i also want to know if you think that this "anti-women, violent message" is more of a form of storytelling or more of a way to "degenerate each other and express rage." or a combo of both? thoughts?


...still cooler than a polar bear's toenails!


aim: espkjones


  

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SampolinMoAko
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Fri Jul-20-01 05:05 AM

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22. "hello?"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

ummm any thoughts on what i said, anyone?

...still cooler than a polar bear's toenails!


aim: espkjones


  

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orchid
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Fri Jul-20-01 09:31 AM

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23. "RE: hello?"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

"this in itself is a common (and racist) generalization that needs to be changed."
I agree wholeheartedly!

"i also want to know if you think that this "anti-women, violent message" is more of a form of storytelling or more of a way to "degenerate each other and express rage." or a combo of both? thoughts?"

I think people are expressing their "reality" via art, and if the black reality is that we hate ourselves then it will come out in the music. It's really a combination of both when it comes to that, b/c we are telling stories but at the same time the "reality" of who you are comes across in that story.

  

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SampolinMoAko
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Fri Jul-20-01 12:40 PM

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26. "thanks for your input n/m"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          


...still cooler than a polar bear's toenails!


aim: espkjones


  

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KOONTZILLA
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Wed Jul-18-01 10:14 AM

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11. "RE: Black Folk And Suicide"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I am glad this topic grabbed my attention. For years i've thought about stuff like this, but never knew what it was. It's true, life is totally different for black people and noone trys to understand that.... From all angles..

"Niggas mad cause Ibrags about the cash I got, but I'm used to not havin alot, I'm from the gutter and ohh..."-Jay-Z

"Expensive shoes worn, Loui Viton see-through gone, CoChes, my face is like a coupon..."Jay-Z

  

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rgv
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Wed Jul-18-01 06:07 PM

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14. "the suicide manifesto is coming soon!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"God is..She's like a motherly
Che Guevara, benevolent,
like 6 feet tall with dreadlocks,
a big machine gun and a
beautiful laugh... maybe."

~ okp DJ Scratch n Sniff

i just want chu to know
how i feel
how i feel

  

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rgv
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Wed Jul-18-01 06:12 PM

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15. "suicide manifesto"
In response to Reply # 14


          

“suicide manifesto”


i will begin hanging my grits up on clotheslines, b/c they are all too
hot for me to hold in my mouth,
i will begin vomiting life &
i will make myself bulimic.
white women arent the only ones who kill themselves.
asian women want to die too.

i am giving buddha back his belly, and my mother back her garden, my
temple is no longer familiar to me, and im navigating new courses to
true love, or a quick death whichsoever happens first.
too many blk gyrls want to die.
they want to take pills
they want to open their wrists to the kewlness
of metals that wld otherwise poison them.

sum blk gyrls get tetanus shots in vain.
blk womyn are suicidal too.

sum blk womyn do not enjoy giving head.
sum blk gyrls do not like being on their knees.
sum of us dont believe in prayer anymore.
blk gyrls dont cry loud enuff for others to hear.
sum blk womyn do not want to be resuscitated.
tampons are not contoured to fit the blk body
sum of us will scream in the sanitary napkins aisle
sum of us will be late to work
sum of us
can not check out in the express lane
we will have had went over the limit
buying twenty-two boxes of tampons
until we find one that fits.
sum of us will have emotional breakdowns
b/c of a panty liner.

blk gyrls can not buy jeans w/ the hips built in.
sum blk womyn dont have hips, sum blk womyn are
flat
and dry
and flaky
and crumble.
sumtimes blk gyrls fall apart.
sum blk womyn do not know what to make for dinner.

blk womyn will kill themselves over creamed corn
or sweet peas.
life dont roll as sweet as peas.
sum blk womyn dont eat.
sum blk gyrls will only stomach kool-aid and pork n beans.
sum will die b/c they dont know how to use a can opener.
sum blk womyn will lock themselves out of their homes
accidentally. they will sit in their cars and wait. sum blk womyn
will cry. they will turn their ignitions on, sum blk gyrls will drive
off the bridge

others will jump off it.

not all blk womyn want to be mothers.
not all blk womyn eat fried chicken.
sum blk gyrls do not cut their split ends
sum
just cut
their ends.

sum blk womyn have died, but continue to live.
sum blk gyrls are scared of their dark.

white women arent the only women who want to kill themselves.
latina womyn want to die too.

sum of us are going to burn the grits.
sum blk gyrls will wait for ntozake
to hand em rainbows

sum blk womyn cant see the sun


blk womyn kill themselves too.

sumtimes
nuthin is enuff.





"God is..She's like a motherly
Che Guevara, benevolent,
like 6 feet tall with dreadlocks,
a big machine gun and a
beautiful laugh... maybe."

~ okp DJ Scratch n Sniff

i just want chu to know
how i feel
how i feel

  

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AaronT
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Fri Jul-20-01 09:59 AM

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24. "read a chapter in a book about htis actually"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Let me start off by saying this is an excellent topic. I am very interested in the topic of depression and suicide and actually am trying to pursue graduate education in this area. I myself experienced depression and came close to attepting suicide on a number of occasions.

Many groups including black people have really been ignored when the issue of mental health comes up and a black female author (i forget her name) worte a chapter in the book Unholy Ghost -- writers on depression -- that expressed concern that she felt that all people who were discussed in depression and suicides seemed to be white women from the northeast which I have come to find as true. However, blacks are not the only cultural/racial/age group who could use further research in the mental health arena. I personally am interested in childhood mental illness, very underdeveloped.

But this topic has given me some interest in pursuing research into this area as well. Mental health is an often overlooked issue and we need more research for all. And this special issues that minorities and black people in particular face that can cause depression and suicide is another seriously underdeveloped area.

Again great topic. One Love
Aaron
None but ourselves can free our minds -- Bob Marley
26+6=1

  

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AaronT
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Fri Jul-20-01 10:01 AM

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25. "RE: suicide manifesto"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Big ups on a great piece of writing rgv
One love
Aaron
None but ourselves can free our own minds -- Bob Marley
26+6=1

  

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