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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 04:56 PM

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"White Ppl & Fear"


  

          

Yimhotep

interesting thing about white ppl, they're scared of everything.

they fear their children - they stigmatize teenagers and portray them as ppl to be feared in movies and tv
they fear each other (seen Lifetime lately?)
they fear nature - look @ all the movies on volcanoes, hurricanes and natural "distasters"
fear of the unknown - movies on "scary aliens"
they fear growing old
the fear other ppl - see women clutch their purses @ the sight of a black man
they fear the spirit world - ghosts (w/ the exception of casper) r usually a bad thing

what does this have to do w/ the here and now?
this is what al qaeda apparently understands about white consciousness: it is rooted in fear, WP re/act in fear. this is
the same fear that they tried to instill in enslaved africans by beating them to near death in front of everyone, public lynchings and burning crosses. this same fear that they try to instill in others by publicly proclaiming we will fight (destroy?) terrorists and everybody who even looks at (like?) one - again making a public example.

so what has the al qaeda figured out (whether or not they r responsible for WTC) that has eluded so many others that have been oppressed by whites?

this same fear will be the undoing of the domninance of white consciousness. WP will just scare themselves out of their wits. just plant the seed.

today they shut down a subway (in washington i think) b/c after a man who jumped the turnstile, after being apprehended took out an unknown substance and sprayed it (turned out to be cleaning fluid), a woman thought someting was "wrong" w/ the package she received inthe mail and threw it down and ran away from it. the attacks on mosques and sikhs and muslims r out of fear.

i think it shows just how unstable this civilzation is, built on fear.

finally, what al qaeda understands is what whites call a respect 4 life is actually a fear of death, so al qaeda says to that, to plant the seed, "as much u like life there r thousands who love death".

what is most fearful to WP is ppl who aren't scared, who will not b intimidated.
how do u deal w/ such ppl?
what do u do?

guess we're about to find out.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Racists
Oct 09th 2001
1
RE: Racists
Oct 09th 2001
3
interesting perspective.
Oct 09th 2001
10
co-fucking-sign n/m
Oct 09th 2001
15
RE: interesting perspective.
Oct 09th 2001
16
agree
Oct 10th 2001
18
ditto
Oct 10th 2001
23
Amazing
Oct 10th 2001
24
Check Nettrice on Post #22 n/m
Oct 10th 2001
29
Post #21, not #22 n/m
Oct 10th 2001
30
FYI
Oct 10th 2001
37
RE: FYI
Oct 10th 2001
50
      RE: FYI
Oct 10th 2001
53
           at a time
Oct 10th 2001
54
           RE: at a time
Oct 10th 2001
72
                RE: at a time
Oct 10th 2001
83
           RE: FYI
Maize1
Oct 10th 2001
137
           RE: FYI
bboy218
Oct 10th 2001
140
                RE: FYI
Oct 10th 2001
142
                     RE: FYI
bboy218
Oct 10th 2001
144
                     RE: FYI
bboy218
Oct 10th 2001
145
                     RE: FYI
Oct 11th 2001
175
                          RE: FYI
bboy218
Oct 11th 2001
199
                               RE: FYI
Oct 11th 2001
211
                                    RE: FYI
bboy218
Oct 11th 2001
218
                                         RE: FYI
Oct 11th 2001
221
                                              RE: FYI
bboy218
Oct 11th 2001
222
                                              RE: FYI
CoolV
Oct 14th 2001
271
                                              people of color being racist
Oct 12th 2001
255
                                              RE: people of color being racist
Oct 12th 2001
261
                                                   hypocritical distinctions...
Oct 12th 2001
263
                                                        cultural distinctions: because everyone is not the same
Oct 14th 2001
272
                                              Dude, so what
Oct 14th 2001
276
                                                   RE: Dude, so what
Oct 15th 2001
277
                     Also...
Oct 12th 2001
264
                          RE: Also...
Oct 14th 2001
273
RE: Amazing
Oct 10th 2001
56
BYE
Oct 11th 2001
189
hot damn
Oct 10th 2001
57
CO-SIGN ONE MO GIN'!
Ts_Aura9
Oct 10th 2001
101
When u say it
Oct 10th 2001
102
remove the "either"
Oct 10th 2001
103
doubt it
Oct 10th 2001
104
      Magnitude.
Oct 10th 2001
105
      RE: doubt it
bboy218
Oct 10th 2001
141
           RE: doubt it
Oct 10th 2001
153
           All the more reason for war.
Oct 11th 2001
158
           RE: All the more reason for war.
Oct 11th 2001
161
                They're not "guns blazing" now.
Oct 11th 2001
162
                     RE: They're not "guns blazing" now.
Oct 11th 2001
165
                     RE: They're not "guns blazing" now.
Oct 11th 2001
176
                          Relative to
Oct 11th 2001
216
                               RE: Relative to
Oct 11th 2001
227
                                    Well, look at this.
Oct 11th 2001
232
           RE: doubt it
bboy218
Oct 11th 2001
201
           RE: doubt it
Oct 11th 2001
192
                RE: doubt it
Oct 11th 2001
212
                     Ya think?
Oct 11th 2001
219
                     U Watch that...
Oct 11th 2001
228
wow, i thought this was a typo..
Oct 10th 2001
139
bomb ireland?
Oct 10th 2001
152
There would be a war.
Oct 11th 2001
157
      yes
Oct 11th 2001
160
           The war in Afghanistan
Oct 11th 2001
163
           RE: yes
Oct 11th 2001
205
RE: When u say it
Oct 11th 2001
191
Ummm, no
Oct 11th 2001
242
      RE: Ummm, no
Oct 11th 2001
244
      Now you're exaggerating.
Oct 12th 2001
253
nice response poetx
Oct 10th 2001
124
waitaminutenow
Oct 11th 2001
155
RE: waitaminutenow
Oct 11th 2001
177
Well said brotha
Oct 11th 2001
188
RE: interesting perspective.
Oct 11th 2001
238
RE: Racists
Oct 10th 2001
133
thoughts
Oct 09th 2001
2
Agreed
Oct 09th 2001
4
swallow the camel
Oct 10th 2001
22
      Funniest thing I've heard all day
Oct 10th 2001
31
there are very interesting points
Oct 09th 2001
5
RE: there are very interesting points
Oct 09th 2001
6
      only in group format
Oct 09th 2001
7
           *clears throat*
Oct 09th 2001
9
                look--up above--
Oct 10th 2001
40
*growls*
Oct 09th 2001
8
stupid slick surface
Oct 09th 2001
12
      RE: stupid slick surface
Oct 09th 2001
13
      RE: stupid slick surface
Oct 09th 2001
14
           RE: stupid slick surface
Oct 09th 2001
17
                check #22 n/m
Oct 10th 2001
25
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 09th 2001
11
Assumption is a mother
Oct 10th 2001
27
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
39
      I guess i dont think like you
Oct 10th 2001
106
           Nope...
Oct 10th 2001
107
                I was sayin
Oct 10th 2001
111
                I know what you were sayin, Doc
Oct 10th 2001
112
                     RE: I know what you were sayin, Doc
Oct 10th 2001
116
                          and I'm a Calgarian
Oct 10th 2001
117
                          a fellow Albertan!
Oct 10th 2001
147
                               Hah!
Oct 11th 2001
173
                               RE: Hah!
Oct 11th 2001
174
                                    RE: Hah!
Oct 11th 2001
225
                                         RE: Hah!
Oct 11th 2001
246
                               Damn straight
Oct 11th 2001
245
                          I think
Oct 10th 2001
127
                               The point of terrorism
Oct 10th 2001
135
                                    well
Oct 10th 2001
151
                RE: Nope...
Oct 11th 2001
207
Since 'white' ppl are so skurry
Oct 10th 2001
19
RE: Since 'white' ppl are so skurry
Oct 10th 2001
33
      Wrong answer.
Oct 10th 2001
65
Oh, 1 more thing
Oct 10th 2001
20
Interp of Baraka? n/m
Oct 10th 2001
26
***shaking head***
Oct 10th 2001
28
      I mean, why?
Oct 10th 2001
66
           RE: I mean, why?
Oct 10th 2001
73
                Hey....
Oct 10th 2001
77
                I guess it ain't just me
Oct 10th 2001
81
                Tell that to Kemetian.
Oct 10th 2001
90
                4 real Hotthyng
Oct 11th 2001
196
                     lol
Oct 11th 2001
217
                and about killing Whitey
Oct 10th 2001
80
                     RE: and about killing Whitey
Oct 10th 2001
84
                     Naw, I read it.
Oct 10th 2001
89
                     Honestly,
Oct 10th 2001
110
                     RE: and about killing Whitey
Oct 10th 2001
93
                     Oh, that was cute.
Oct 10th 2001
98
                     Yeah real cute
Oct 10th 2001
113
                     RE: Yeah real cute
Oct 10th 2001
115
                     uhhh....ok
Oct 10th 2001
118
                     Pitiful
Oct 11th 2001
167
                     RE: and about killing Whitey
Oct 10th 2001
136
                     RE: and about killing Whitey
Oct 11th 2001
224
                          RE: and about killing Whitey
Oct 11th 2001
230
                               RE: and about killing Whitey
Oct 11th 2001
237
A Dying Consciousness
Oct 10th 2001
21
A Growing Consciousness n/m
Oct 10th 2001
32
RE: A Dying Consciousness
Oct 10th 2001
51
RE: A Dying Consciousness
Oct 10th 2001
58
      RE: A Dying Consciousness
Oct 11th 2001
184
           Sure
Oct 11th 2001
204
very well said
Oct 10th 2001
59
Gary Zukav???
Oct 10th 2001
67
      RE: Gary Zukav???
Oct 10th 2001
68
           I used to work for Oprah.
Oct 10th 2001
70
                Never met him...
Oct 10th 2001
74
                     3 more Oprah authors.
Oct 10th 2001
78
FEAR
Oct 10th 2001
34
hollywood and fear...
Oct 10th 2001
35
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
36
RE: White Ppl & Fear
bboy218
Oct 10th 2001
43
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 11th 2001
231
      you caught me
bboy218
Oct 11th 2001
234
      wasnt talking about you specifically
Oct 11th 2001
235
           RE: wasnt talking about you specifically
bboy218
Oct 11th 2001
236
      RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 11th 2001
239
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
38
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
41
You had a dream too?
Oct 11th 2001
209
Hilarious
Oct 10th 2001
42
Have You Ever...
Oct 10th 2001
44
      RE: Have You Ever...
Oct 10th 2001
45
      RE: Have You Ever...
Oct 10th 2001
46
           RE: Have You Ever...
Oct 10th 2001
47
           RE: Have You Ever...
Oct 10th 2001
49
           RE: Have You Ever...
Oct 10th 2001
48
           I understand most of you critizizers(sp)
Oct 11th 2001
156
           Doth mine eyes...
Oct 11th 2001
180
                hmhhehe
Oct 14th 2001
274
           RE: Have You Ever...
Oct 11th 2001
208
      pondering your questions...
Oct 10th 2001
60
      RE: pondering your questions...
Oct 10th 2001
62
      RE: Have You Ever...
Oct 10th 2001
129
personally
Oct 10th 2001
52
:)
Oct 10th 2001
75
Read the whole thread before you respond
Oct 10th 2001
55
RE: Read the whole thread before you respond
Oct 10th 2001
61
Like this idea is really so DEEP.
Oct 10th 2001
69
      RE: Like this idea is really so DEEP.
Oct 10th 2001
71
           "white" culture = supremacy?
Oct 10th 2001
79
           RE: Like this idea is really so DEEP.
Oct 10th 2001
86
           RE: Like this idea is really so DEEP.
bboy218
Oct 10th 2001
149
                europe
Oct 11th 2001
159
                     Elite
Oct 11th 2001
183
                          RE: Elite
Oct 11th 2001
187
                               Money?
Oct 11th 2001
193
                                    i give up
Oct 11th 2001
197
                                         RE: i give up
Oct 11th 2001
213
RE: Read the whole thread before you respond
Oct 10th 2001
63
I just wish
Oct 10th 2001
64
RE: I just wish
Oct 10th 2001
76
      RE: I just wish
justice7
Oct 10th 2001
85
I'm Co-Signing
Oct 10th 2001
82
huff
Oct 11th 2001
164
RE: I'm Co-Signing
Oct 11th 2001
169
4 The Record
Oct 10th 2001
87
RE: 4 The Record
Oct 10th 2001
88
and also
Oct 10th 2001
91
RE: and also
Oct 10th 2001
95
No they fear kafirs
Oct 11th 2001
168
      RE: No they fear kafirs
Oct 11th 2001
241
Hello.
Oct 10th 2001
92
      RE: Hello.
Oct 10th 2001
94
           okay discussin
Oct 10th 2001
96
           RE: okay discussin
Oct 10th 2001
114
                RE: okay discussin
Maize1
Oct 10th 2001
138
                european and african
Oct 11th 2001
166
                Read
Oct 11th 2001
182
                sorry it took so long...
Oct 11th 2001
181
                     RE: sorry it took so long...
Oct 11th 2001
194
                          individualism..
Oct 11th 2001
198
                               RE: individualism..
Oct 11th 2001
214
                                    i feel you
Oct 11th 2001
220
                                         RE: i feel you
Oct 11th 2001
240
                                              on the whole
Oct 12th 2001
249
                                                   RE: on the whole
Oct 12th 2001
251
                                                        RE: on the whole
Oct 12th 2001
252
                                                             RE: on the whole
Oct 12th 2001
265
                                                                  i don't know why i bother
Oct 13th 2001
269
           I keep readin...
Oct 10th 2001
150
                RE: I keep readin...
Oct 11th 2001
185
yeah, but dont get it twisted
Oct 11th 2001
233
RE: yeah, but dont get it twisted
Oct 11th 2001
247
DAMN VAGUE
Oct 12th 2001
267
Banoodles
Ts_Aura9
Oct 10th 2001
97
RE: Banoodles
Oct 10th 2001
99
      RE: Banoodles
Ts_Aura9
Oct 10th 2001
121
Youre title
Oct 10th 2001
100
RE: Youre title
Oct 10th 2001
108
RE: Youre title
Ts_Aura9
Oct 10th 2001
119
Do you guys get sick...
Oct 10th 2001
109
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
120
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
128
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
122
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
125
      RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
146
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
123
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
126
Consciousness Part 2
Oct 10th 2001
130
True!
Oct 10th 2001
148
oh fuck it
kvibe23
Oct 10th 2001
131
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
132
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
134
RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 10th 2001
143
      RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 11th 2001
154
           fear and need for control
Oct 11th 2001
171
           RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 11th 2001
172
                RE: White Ppl & Fear
Oct 12th 2001
248
European elite
Oct 11th 2001
170
Origins of fear
Oct 11th 2001
202
medulla oblongata
Oct 11th 2001
178
RE: White Ppl & Fear
peoke7
Oct 11th 2001
179
RE: White Ppl & Fear
danbencsik
Oct 11th 2001
186
RASISM *MUST READ*
Oct 11th 2001
190
Racism is a symptom...
Oct 11th 2001
195
RE: RASISM *MUST READ*
Oct 11th 2001
215
RE: RASISM *MUST READ*
bboy218
Oct 11th 2001
223
RE: RASISM *MUST READ*
Oct 11th 2001
229
RE: RASISM *MUST READ*
Oct 12th 2001
254
about this:
Oct 12th 2001
256
200
Oct 11th 2001
200
yes suh
Oct 11th 2001
203
      RE: yes suh
Oct 11th 2001
206
           RE: yes suh
Oct 11th 2001
210
                lmao
bboy218
Oct 11th 2001
226
                Lighten Up
Oct 11th 2001
243
                     RE: Lighten Up
Oct 12th 2001
250
                     RE: Lighten Up
Oct 12th 2001
257
                     and you
Oct 12th 2001
259
                     RE: Lighten Up
Oct 12th 2001
266
                     nyc_rootsfan?
Oct 12th 2001
258
Why this post is BS:
Oct 12th 2001
260
RE: Why this post is BS:
Oct 12th 2001
262
What's up cued?
Oct 13th 2001
268
RE: Why this post is BS:
Oct 13th 2001
270
i'm very rarely afraid...
Oct 14th 2001
275

QoolSkip
Charter member
714 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 05:01 PM

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1. "Racists"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This is a racists post.
I guess people of color don't experience some of these fears.

DELETE THIS POST

  

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shwin
Charter member
3481 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 05:04 PM

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3. "RE: Racists"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

why just white? so i take it black society wouldn't mind an earthquake?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NYU

  

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poetx
Charter member
58767 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 07:45 PM

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10. "interesting perspective."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

as a black man i find kemetian's observations interesting and most certainly validated by my own experience. does she kick some generalizations? yep. but does that invalidates the points she makes? no.

the thing is, where's the line of separation between ordinary, human fears, and those that are a peculiar cultural trait shared by americans?

is it rational to anyone to fear someone walking behind them on a dark street late at night? yes. is it rational for a white woman to damn near have a panic attack when a well-dressed black man (like myself) enters the elevator with them, carrying a f*cking laptop computer? hell naw. clutching their purses and shit. i don't want your damn purse or anything you got.

was it rational for the cops who bucked diallo to mistake a wallet for a gun? overreaction to the perceived threat of black people is a persistent and pervasive problem, one that flies in the face of the fact that is statistically much more likely that a black kid will be killed by a white cop than vice versa. we, on the other hand, have a very logical reason to fear police.

isn't all this just a bunch of individuals acting out their individual fears? the point kemetian is making is that to a large degree, it isn't. white americans most certainly have a group conception of those who they perceive to be 'different' and frequently act (in fear) based upon those group perceptions or misconceptions. the root of it? on the one hand, there's an assumption on their part that they have something of value that's wanted by everyone else, a side effect of relative privilege. sometimes though, that 'something' is merely whiteness, which explains how this rationale can be maintained even when traditional class roles are reversed, like w/ the white ladies on the elevator, or the minimum wage store clerk who's too good to put the freaking change in my hand like he just did for the white customer, and drops my money on the counter (presumably in fear that my blackness can be spread by skin contact).

the other source of the fear is an implied acknowledgement of the treatment of other groups by white people. that's why black folk take on this almost superhuman quality in white fear, to the extent that some of those officers beating rodney kings dumb ass really thought that he could overpower a dozen cops with guns if they didn't actively beat him down. they know the treatment we've been subjected to and what they'd be thinking of doing if the tables were turned.

the instilling of fear among populations has long been a tactic of governments and nations to ease conquest and aid in controlling people. its a valuable means of obtaining/forcing the consent of the governed, and is particularly useful in colonial and other subjugative situations (slavery, etc.). that's all terrorism is, giving a particular act more symbolism and power than it ordinarily would. so when we bombed iraq, we were really saying to all the other nations in that region, don't eff with us or we'll send you back to the stone age and there won't be a damn thing you can do about it.

but what effect do those types of messages and symbolism have on "terrorists"? it makes them feel more justified, more fatalistic, more resolute, and more inclined to resort to drastic measures. the fact that they brought those type of tactics to american soil, and challenged this nation in an unprecedented fashion, signals a fundamental change. evil as it was, the events of 9/11 have succeded in bringing america out of its comfort zone. we are now subject to all the atrocities which happen daily around the world, the same tragedies we used to view with dispassionate detachment now have a new immediacy.

america is lashing out in a way that clearly is influenced by the 'otherness' of the suspects, and our fears of said others. this is why nobody was talking about profiling rednecks and militia nuts following oklahoma, or burning out businesses of white supremacists and beating down nazis. which is precisely why i don't take this current war on terrorism seriously.


for the record, yes, i'm scared of earth quakes. (but not as much as i am of policeman).

peace & blessings,

x.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 08:00 PM

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15. "co-fucking-sign n/m"
In response to Reply # 10


          

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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ape
Charter member
314 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 08:19 PM

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16. "RE: interesting perspective."
In response to Reply # 10


          

ok.

i`m not disagreeing with what you`re said. you`ve made some good points. but those were based on you`re interpretation of kemetians post. and my understanding of that is white people meaning mainstream white american attitudes, US media and the US state.

so thats what you got from the post. fair enough. but for me its just way too wide. i just don`t feel its useful to just slot people into these huge groups, which have different meanings depending on your view point. america is just one nation which i am not a part of. it is not representative of all western countries. a lot of american culture is that: american.

in my first post, i wasn`t trying to attack kemetian as being rascist. its more a general comment on just how willingly people are prepared to group others together, under some kind of label. i just feel that when that happens, it becomes far easier to treat someone in a different way - for instance as some part of a larger problem - than you would treat them on their merits as an individual.

and i think there are interesting points to discuss on how fear is used. an example would be how so many images presented to us of the middle east are of rallies with flags being burnt and people calling for the blood of the west. you`re much more likely to attack someone out of fear than you are out of understanding.

peace

  

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Federisco
Charter member
5002 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 03:05 AM

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18. "agree"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

Your post was too well written.. i couldnt put up a cosign..! So i agree. yep, agree..

okp Kemetian should be careful with her use of "white people", we all should know by now that generalizations do usually more harm than good. But saying "white people" is nuttin new, im used to that. Her observations are much more important...! shit, she said it

Ive experienced this since i was a little boy, from family members (not my close family thank God!), schools, "betterknowers"... A person who does not worry is by the "correct", average, A4, person seen as a person who is somehow wrong. To them that person is LACKING responsibility, behaviour bla bla.. When little swedish childs are outside to play they wear helmets! In norway our carlights are required to be turned on all the time the car is on the road, even if it is in sunlight. Safety (aka fear) is everywhere, too much....

From Norway to Spain where i live now, it is a massive difference. Multiply that difference by 3 and you are in Egypt!

The western world is very much (too much!) built on it. And just like the western world is built on oppression (and exploitation), it is a foundation that doomes it to failure.. perhaps that's what we start to see now. What you throw out comes back to you...!

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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Soul Brotha
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1785 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 04:10 AM

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23. "ditto"
In response to Reply # 10


          


damn good read.

However, let's not (again) focus our collective energy on white folks, b/c it clouds our judgement. I know some brown folk who are just as frightened as said white folk.

Yesterday's incident in the DC subway might have been frightening for the passengers on that train, but things happen every day in the (not-so) big city. According to an article in today's Post, this kat sprayed (what probably was) Resolve carpet cleaner on the cops & fired a round during the scuffle with two officers. How do two cops with utility belts full of weapons allow this kat to fire a round? And if this man had sprayed a deadly substance, wouldn't the Metro want to take this train out of service? No. This train was immediately put back into service. They simply closed the car where the spraying occured & sent train 509 on its way. The train went all the way into downtown DC - Archives Station - before it was taken out of service & quarantined (sp.?) to a rail yard. *That* is scary. The train traveled through roughly 20 stations before it was taken out of service. And we are afraid of *others* doing something to us. We do it to ourselves every day.

  

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QoolSkip
Charter member
714 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 04:17 AM

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24. "Amazing"
In response to Reply # 10


          

truly f**kin amazing how you take some ignorant ass racist post and try to legitimatize it as fact. This is the same shit that racists whites do.
I swear i want off this planet. All you mofo's are crazy. white black, muslim, jew, christian every friggin body is just so damn full of hate.

"ALL people are gross" me

  

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Soul Brotha
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1785 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 04:46 AM

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29. "Check Nettrice on Post #22 n/m"
In response to Reply # 24


          


  

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Soul Brotha
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1785 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 04:47 AM

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30. "Post #21, not #22 n/m"
In response to Reply # 29


          


  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 06:28 AM

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37. "FYI"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Yimhotep
"racist" when used as an adjective has no 's', when it is used as a plural noun it has one 'k?
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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daveyg
Charter member
9336 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 08:56 AM

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50. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

the classic:
i love when people pick at someone's grammer and spelleen as opposssed to addressing the content they speak of. some would suggest that is exactly what these "fear filled whites" did to african "americans" as a collective. insulted their intellegence by pointing out their inability to speak their language or their tendency to have trouble expressing themselves (not being able to read/write and such)
just acknowledge what the people say. don't nitpick at their syntax.
peace
w/love
dave

here's the "official okayoungins list" if you wanna be on just hit me up(aim davegilbertson/email:the button w/ the lines on it) or contact dj_teddy_bear(dj_teddy_bear@hotmail.com), he's warm and cudly...the OKAYoungins are...

dj_teddy_bear...daveyg...zero...DROots...albinomexican...illness...okaymattd...
HomerILLiad404...okaybrazillian...Essaywhaman...GoldenWon...Preach...
HersheyBit...brown_thought...naame...akweykan...Lyterall...MoJoTaters...
Loryn...Imfntubby...ILLusional...tRoUbLeMnD...smiler...TotalRequestloveLive...
WhiGoStaR...itsmeaight...erjs408...drFunkenstein...vuduchild...tygris...
Afroteck...fLee...Scout...sugarflyy...Adrenaline...RipRapRoad...SayWhatMan...Divine Sheba...
IlladOLphINS...ICE...Mr_Sarcastic_tha_Antagonist...6thSenses...Okayplayer619...Yunique...okaykelc...
Zeno...wolfie...

i like this store, it's pretty rad >>
http://www.digitalgravel.com i've been shoppin there for over a year now, you won't be disappointed.





in remembrance of simmon

OKAYoungins - Givin You True Youth Since (11/12)2000

dj_teddy_bear - daveyg - zero - DROots - albinomexican - illnes - okaymattd - HomerILLiad404 - OkayBrazilian - Essaywhuman - HersheyBit - Preach - brown_thought - naame - akw

  

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cued
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1748 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 09:08 AM

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53. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 50


          

Are you for real?

I hardly think that is what is going on.
When is the last time YOU were called racist?
How did you respond to it? Especially when you
realized that you can't be racist (if you are a
person of color) because you are a person of color.

And what are you talking about "used to"?
That shit is STILL happening and not just
with us Black people, but all people of color
all over this country -- no matter what our aptitude
is for using the English language -- we are always
consider "inferior" -- for many reasons, but I am
pointing out that you are mistaken if you think
that ish is in the past because it is right ch'ere!

*rolls eyes and shakes head*

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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daveyg
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9336 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 09:15 AM

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54. "at a time"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

white's as a collective did this more commonly, i'm not saying they still don't possess these thoughts of blacks being inferior, but it isn't quite as socially acceptable as it once was. i know it's still there, but it's not as in your face, i know you have personal experience that is going to say different, but i'm generalizing.
but that wasn't even the point of what i was saying, the whites did this, and now it seems that the author of this post is doing it to a person who has an objection to what they said.
the person objects.
the author, instead of acknowledging the objection, insults the persons ability to speak properly (maybe not insult, but snootily corrects)
that's what i'm sayin.
peace
w/love
dave

here's the "official okayoungins list" if you wanna be on just hit me up(aim davegilbertson/email:the button w/ the lines on it) or contact dj_teddy_bear(dj_teddy_bear@hotmail.com), he's warm and cudly...the OKAYoungins are...

dj_teddy_bear...daveyg...zero...DROots...albinomexican...illness...okaymattd...
HomerILLiad404...okaybrazillian...Essaywhaman...GoldenWon...Preach...
HersheyBit...brown_thought...naame...akweykan...Lyterall...MoJoTaters...
Loryn...Imfntubby...ILLusional...tRoUbLeMnD...smiler...TotalRequestloveLive...
WhiGoStaR...itsmeaight...erjs408...drFunkenstein...vuduchild...tygris...
Afroteck...fLee...Scout...sugarflyy...Adrenaline...RipRapRoad...SayWhatMan...Divine Sheba...
IlladOLphINS...ICE...Mr_Sarcastic_tha_Antagonist...6thSenses...Okayplayer619...Yunique...okaykelc...
Zeno...wolfie...

i like this store, it's pretty rad >>
http://www.digitalgravel.com i've been shoppin there for over a year now, you won't be disappointed.





in remembrance of simmon

OKAYoungins - Givin You True Youth Since (11/12)2000

dj_teddy_bear - daveyg - zero - DROots - albinomexican - illnes - okaymattd - HomerILLiad404 - OkayBrazilian - Essaywhuman - HersheyBit - Preach - brown_thought - naame - akw

  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 10:19 AM

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72. "RE: at a time"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

Yimhotep
>the author, instead of acknowledging the
>objection, insults the persons ability
>to speak properly (maybe not
>insult, but snootily corrects)
>that's what i'm sayin.
>peace
>w/love
>dave

i dealt w/ the objection further down. actually isn't it better for me to correct Qoolskip than letting him continue to do it (he did it twice, so i think it's not just a typo)? it's love really, not snootiness (a word?). i don't correct ppl i don't care about.

Peace and Love to u 2 Dave.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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daveyg
Charter member
9336 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 10:56 AM

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83. "RE: at a time"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

ok.
peace
w/love
dave

here's the "official okayoungins list" if you wanna be on just hit me up(aim davegilbertson/email:the button w/ the lines on it) or contact dj_teddy_bear(dj_teddy_bear@hotmail.com), he's warm and cudly...the OKAYoungins are...

dj_teddy_bear...daveyg...zero...DROots...albinomexican...illness...okaymattd...
HomerILLiad404...okaybrazillian...Essaywhaman...GoldenWon...Preach...
HersheyBit...brown_thought...naame...akweykan...Lyterall...MoJoTaters...
Loryn...Imfntubby...ILLusional...tRoUbLeMnD...smiler...TotalRequestloveLive...
WhiGoStaR...itsmeaight...erjs408...drFunkenstein...vuduchild...tygris...
Afroteck...fLee...Scout...sugarflyy...Adrenaline...RipRapRoad...SayWhatMan...Divine Sheba...
IlladOLphINS...ICE...Mr_Sarcastic_tha_Antagonist...6thSenses...Okayplayer619...Yunique...okaykelc...
Zeno...wolfie...

i like this store, it's pretty rad >>
http://www.digitalgravel.com i've been shoppin there for over a year now, you won't be disappointed.





in remembrance of simmon

OKAYoungins - Givin You True Youth Since (11/12)2000

dj_teddy_bear - daveyg - zero - DROots - albinomexican - illnes - okaymattd - HomerILLiad404 - OkayBrazilian - Essaywhuman - HersheyBit - Preach - brown_thought - naame - akw

  

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Maize1

Wed Oct-10-01 06:38 PM

  
137. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 53


          

if u r/were Indian in Kenya or South Africa u r/were considered a person of colour. therefore, would u conclude, nah better yet, do Africans conclude that Indians r not racist because they(Indians) r also of colour. just a quest

  

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bboy218

Wed Oct-10-01 07:55 PM

  
140. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 53


          

are saying racism is only "limited" to whites then? people of color cant be racist? So the black muslims who think white people are the creation of an evil scientist and are therefore ultimately inferior arent racist? what do you mean by you cant be racist and be a person of color. This thought intrigues me. A couple good friends of mine who happen to be black have told they went through racist phases in their life, were they just mistaken? Racism is racism and it inflicts on everyone. White, black, asian, hispanic, indian, it don't matter.




  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 08:05 PM

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142. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 140


          

Yup.

That's what whomever you are referring to is saying... or should be saying... as I don't exactly understand where you are coming from.

Racism= race prejudice + power.

Without the power piece, it is just prejudice based on race.
Because, in this country, people of color do not have (I shuld say it to be clear) _institutional power_ people of color are _incapable_ of being racist.

Now, your friends said this because in America, there is this casual lumping together of terms where racism, prejudice and bigotry all mean the same thing. However, they are not the same thing.

And it is no sin for people of color not to like or to even hate the dominant culture from time to time. At least I don't think so because that kind of emotion is _healthy_. Better to feel it than run up in a post office...

you know the rest.

Repressed anything is not good.

Anyway,

Tah

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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bboy218

Wed Oct-10-01 08:17 PM

  
144. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 142


          

okay what im referring to is your comment about how you cant be a person of color and be racist. This I do not understand. I dont think it is right for anyone to be racist. Thats it. Feeling resentment toward a dominant culture, this I can see, BUT feeling resentment to all that resememble the dominant culture? come on.

  

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bboy218

Wed Oct-10-01 08:25 PM

  
145. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 142


          



>Now, your friends said this because
>in America, there is this
>casual lumping together of terms
>where racism, prejudice and bigotry
>all mean the same thing.
>However, they are not the
>same thing.
So hatred of a person b/c of their skin color is not racist? We just have different definitions of racism, to me racism is hatred towards any other race of people other than your own. Or thinking ones race is supieror to any other race.

I dont care, dominant culture, not dominant culture, hatred is hatred. racism is racism. There is no excusing it.


  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 06:11 AM

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175. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

Yimhotep
>>Now, your friends said this because
>>in America, there is this
>>casual lumping together of terms
>>where racism, prejudice and bigotry
>>all mean the same thing.
>>However, they are not the
>>same thing.
>So hatred of a person
>b/c of their skin color
>is not racist? We
>just have different definitions of
>racism, to me racism
>is hatred towards any other
>race of people other than
>your own. Or thinking
>ones race is supieror to
>any other race.
>
>I dont care, dominant culture, not
>dominant culture, hatred is hatred.
> racism is racism.
>There is no excusing it.
>

i don't think Baba Djehuti Q. was excusing anything, he simply defined racisim for u, w/o power it is prejudice. u might think no one has the right to hate someone else, that's your opinion, personally i think i have every right to hate someone ho has his/her foot in my neck. i think oppressed ppl have a reason to hate their oppressor, i think enslaved africans had a reason to hate their "massa." i think hatred in that sense is excusable. u do not, that is fine. this, however is not the issue, racism and prejudice r not the same. ppl of color lack the power to be racist. Perhaps someone should start a post called "What is Racism?" and we can archive and refer to it, every time this comes up.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
bboy218

Thu Oct-11-01 08:08 AM

  
199. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 175


          

Hey, like I said, we have completely different views on what racism is. Yes, I do agree with the fact that the oppressedhas the right to hate the oppresser. What I meant, is that not every one who resembles the oppresser, is for the oppression to begin with. So, why hate all those that resemble the oppresser.
I do see where you are coming from on the power/racism issue, but like I said there are just two different OPINIONS here on what racism really is. Neither of us are wrong, so please spare me this thats wrong b/c me and him agree on what it is and you dont nonsense.

  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 09:50 AM

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211. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 199


          

Are you white?

Because I think you are white. You sound white. And even, that was a very white response.

What I mean is this, you don't have to think about the power piece because it is part of your privilege as a white person. You don't have to think, see, hear, or feel anything YOU don't want to. It isn't going to change or shift your life in any way, sense, form, or idea.

Being white means that you want us (read: people of color) to see you as being an individual. But if you are so individual, why do you have this privilege? And why is this privilege spread to other people who look like you (or who became white) collectively?

*leans head to the side*

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
bboy218

Thu Oct-11-01 10:39 AM

  
218. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 211


          

>Are you white?
Yes I am white
>Because I think you are white.
>You sound white. And even,
>that was a very white
>response.
Meaning my response to what racism is? Ive heard blacks use this too, are you saying then they have been assimilated?
>What I mean is this, you
>don't have to think about
>the power piece because it
>is part of your privilege
>as a white person.
Yes, I do realize that there is a definate advantage of being white, I do realize that when driving I am not going to be glared at by cops, in stores I know I will not be followed. Its like a man riding is bike up a hill, being white, Ive got the wind pushing up my back helping up. If I were black, that wind would be at my front.
You
>don't have to think, see,
>hear, or feel anything YOU
>don't want to. It isn't
>going to change or shift
>your life in any way,
>sense, form, or idea.
Well, I dont have to, but I choose to see these things going on in the world, and I feel they should be changed. Yes, it does shift my life, b/c it pisses me off to see anyone treated this way. Or the fact that I have an advantage to being white. Yes, there are white folk who dont like having this advantage.
>Being white means that you want
>us (read: people of color)
>to see you as being
>an individual. But if you
>are so individual, why do
>you have this privilege?
Did I ask for this privilege? No, it just happened that way.
And
>why is this privilege spread
>to other people who look
>like you (or who became
>white) collectively?
b/c we look like the ones who were/are the oppressers.
>*leans head to the side*
>
>Q
>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>"americans are gross!" -utamaroho
>
>Uplifting thoughts:
>
>"We are the end result of
>our ancestors prayers as they
>died. We you are the
>sum total of their answered
>prayers."
>
>"I am because we are; we
>are because I am."
>
>"falling in love with somebody's soul...their
>essence their personality their walk
>their talk the way they
>speak and smile...no matter what
>the physical outer body is..male
>or female...is a temptation i
>hope i am never foolish
>enough to resist." - Hot
>Damali



  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 11:06 AM

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221. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 218


          

>>Are you white?
>Yes I am white

I'm glad you know that you are. Otherwise, we would have had some serious problems.

>>Because I think you are white.
>>You sound white. And even,
>>that was a very white
>>response.
>Meaning my response to what racism
>is? Ive heard blacks
>use this too, are you
>saying then they have been
>assimilated?

Read what I have said elsewhere (and probably in this topic) -- in America, people confuse racism, bigotry, and prejudice and we are not exempt from this. However, without the power analysis, you have either race prejudice or bigotry -- not racism. People of color can have prejudice, can be bigotted, but they cannot, I repeat, cannot be racist.

>>What I mean is this, you
>>don't have to think about
>>the power piece because it
>>is part of your privilege
>>as a white person.
>Yes, I do realize that there
>is a definate advantage of
>being white, I do realize
>that when driving I am
>not going to be glared
>at by cops, in stores
>I know I will not
>be followed. Its like
>a man riding is bike
>up a hill, being white,
>Ive got the wind pushing
>up my back helping up.
> If I were black,
> that wind would be
>at my front.

And this is a good beginning, but you are speaking metaphorically, not about realities. It isn't simply an "advantage" to be white, it is a privilege. To say that it is an advantage is to say that, for some reason, you deserve this extra edge. But it isn't an advantage, is it? You aren't better than other white people or people of color, are you? It is a privilege, something you expect and you wouldn't know what to do without it.

> You
>>don't have to think, see,
>>hear, or feel anything YOU
>>don't want to. It isn't
>>going to change or shift
>>your life in any way,
>>sense, form, or idea.
>Well, I dont have to, but
>I choose to see these
>things going on in the
>world, and I feel they
>should be changed.

Ah, but your thinking isn't changed. You took a step, but it is time to take another. You are still choosing to see what you want to see. And that's ok. Maybe the totality of it, and how you fit into it, would be too much for you to withstand at this point in your journey of recovering... But we are not really talking about "the world" or at least I am not. I don't know about the world. I know about America. And assuming that you are an American, you do, too, so let's stop universalizing and talk about America. Home. Where you eat, shit, fuck, and sleep.

> Yes,
>it does shift my life,
>b/c it pisses me off
>to see anyone treated this
>way.

It pisses you off. But it doesn't take bread from your table. How often do you use that unearned privilege of yours to aid people of color? *leans head to the side* You know, you aren't the first white person to stick his head outside of the European matrix... and I tend to think we know what they look like and they tend to know that they could do more and we hold them accountable because it is easy to grow comfortable with your unearned privilege.

> Or the fact
>that I have an advantage
>to being white.
>Yes, there are white folk
>who dont like having this
>advantage.

But there are more white folk who know that they have this privilege and feel guilty about it and yet do NOTHING. White guilt ain't gone help people like me and your Black friends.

>>Being white means that you want
>>us (read: people of color)
>>to see you as being
>>an individual. But if you
>>are so individual, why do
>>you have this privilege?
>Did I ask for this privilege?
>No, it just happened that
>way.

Honey, it didn't "just happen" that way. Your privilege as a white person was built on the backs of my ancestors and was then perpetuated by people like you... and unlike you. White people who brought into it and furthered it. White people who felt guilty, but did not allow their guilt to do anything other than make them feel bad. White people who started to look into racism and found their mirrored image staring back at them. Look at your history. Look at yourself. Listen to what people of color have to say. You didn't "just happen" to have unearned privilege. It was passed down to you like a family heirloom. And all of you got it. Regardless of whether you were a woman, gay, really irish or italian or jewish, because you can become white. It is a legacy, this unearned privilege.

>And
>>why is this privilege spread
>>to other people who look
>>like you (or who became
>>white) collectively?
> b/c we look like the
>ones who were/are the oppressers.

No. Because they walked into this country being whoever they were. And then they got a taste of America. They understood what it was like to be an "other" and first chance they got, because, after all, their skin _was_ the right color, they assimulated into "white". They joined the dominant culture, the oppressors. And now, they are the oppressors themselves.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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bboy218

Thu Oct-11-01 11:30 AM

  
222. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 221


          

>>>Are you white?
>>Yes I am white
>
>I'm glad you know that you
>are. Otherwise, we would have
>had some serious problems.
>
>>>Because I think you are white.
>>>You sound white. And even,
>>>that was a very white
>>>response.
>>Meaning my response to what racism
>>is? Ive heard blacks
>>use this too, are you
>>saying then they have been
>>assimilated?
>
>Read what I have said elsewhere
>(and probably in this topic)
>-- in America, people confuse
>racism, bigotry, and prejudice and
>we are not exempt from
>this. However, without the power
>analysis, you have either race
>prejudice or bigotry -- not
>racism. People of color can
>have prejudice, can be bigotted,
>but they cannot, I repeat,
>cannot be racist.
>Your opinion, we have different feelings on what racism is in lots of aspects, I respect your opinion, and hope you can respect min.
>>>What I mean is this, you
>>>don't have to think about
>>>the power piece because it
>>>is part of your privilege
>>>as a white person.
>>Yes, I do realize that there
>>is a definate advantage of
>>being white, I do realize
>>that when driving I am
>>not going to be glared
>>at by cops, in stores
>>I know I will not
>>be followed. Its like
>>a man riding is bike
>>up a hill, being white,
>>Ive got the wind pushing
>>up my back helping up.
>> If I were black,
>> that wind would be
>>at my front.
>
>And this is a good beginning,
>but you are speaking metaphorically,
>not about realities.
Actually, I have seen this as a reality before. Being in stores with black friends, and being followed by 3 different employees in manner of 5 minutes, go in the store by myself, nothing like that happened. I've also seen heads bug out before when walking into a restaurant in a group of blacks(3) and whites (2), or at my friends graduation when about 4 white kids meet 4 blacks and show nothing but love(fellow crew members)
It isn't
>simply an "advantage" to be
>white, it is a privilege.
>To say that it is
>an advantage is to say
>that, for some reason, you
>deserve this extra edge. But
>it isn't an advantage, is
>it? You aren't better than
>other white people or people
>of color, are you? It
>is a privilege, something you
>expect and you wouldn't know
>what to do without it.
No, its not an advantage(excuse my term) it is a privilage, I dont pick words as carefully as I should sometimes. No, Im not better than others, I dont know why you are asking this question to begin with. And what exactly do you mean I wouldnt know what to do without it? my "whiteness"?
>
>> You
>>>don't have to think, see,
>>>hear, or feel anything YOU
>>>don't want to. It isn't
>>>going to change or shift
>>>your life in any way,
>>>sense, form, or idea.
>>Well, I dont have to, but
>>I choose to see these
>>things going on in the
>>world, and I feel they
>>should be changed.
>
>Ah, but your thinking isn't changed.
How?
>You took a step, but
>it is time to take
>another. You are still choosing
>to see what you want
>to see. And that's ok.
>Maybe the totality of it,
>and how you fit into
>it, would be too much
>for you to withstand at
>this point in your journey
>of recovering... But we are
>not really talking about "the
>world" or at least I
>am not.
Sorry not really what I meant (america)
I don't know
>about the world. I know
>about America. And assuming that
>you are an American, you
>do, too, so let's stop
>universalizing and talk about America.
>Home. Where you eat, shit,
>fuck, and sleep.
>
>> Yes,
>>it does shift my life,
>>b/c it pisses me off
>>to see anyone treated this
>>way.
>
>It pisses you off. But it
>doesn't take bread from your
>table.
True.
How often do you
>use that unearned privilege of
>yours to aid people of
>color?
Meaning why do I not intervene when I see these things going on?
*leans head to the
>side* You know, you aren't
>the first white person to
>stick his head outside of
>the European matrix...
Thanks for stating the obvious
and I
>tend to think we know
>what they look like and
>they tend to know that
>they could do more and
>we hold them accountable because
>it is easy to grow
>comfortable with your unearned privilege.
>
>
>> Or the fact
>>that I have an advantage
>>to being white.
>>Yes, there are white folk
>>who dont like having this
>>advantage.
>
>But there are more white folk
>who know that they have
>this privilege and feel guilty
>about it and yet do
>NOTHING. White guilt ain't gone
>help people like me and
>your Black friends.
True. there are things I need to better in my life-Im at that point where Im really starting to look at myself and see what I can do that I know to be right, and try to make things right b/w black/whites/asians/hispanics, which was one of the very reason why I love hip-hop so much and the culture, b/c I see it truly as a way to break barries b/w races and unite us and make things better. I go to a punk show, and I see whites, they stand for many of the same things I do, and what Ive been saying, but like myself arent reaching out the way they sould be doing. When Ive thrown hip-hop shows, people of types show up, we got rich kids, black kids, white kids, asian kids. You get my point (I hope) but Im rambling... again
>>>Being white means that you want
>>>us (read: people of color)
>>>to see you as being
>>>an individual. But if you
>>>are so individual, why do
>>>you have this privilege?
>>Did I ask for this privilege?
>>No, it just happened that
>>way.
>
>Honey, it didn't "just happen" that
>way.
I know it didnt just happen that way. Like I said maybe I can choose words and what not in a better way. More like it ended up to be like that.
Your privilege as a
>white person was built on
>the backs of my ancestors
>and was then perpetuated by
>people like you... and unlike
>you. White people who brought
>into it and furthered it.
>White people who felt guilty,
>but did not allow their
>guilt to do anything other
>than make them feel bad.
>White people who started to
>look into racism and found
>their mirrored image staring back
>at them. Look at your
>history. Look at yourself. Listen
>to what people of color
>have to say. You didn't
>"just happen" to have unearned
>privilege. It was passed down
>to you like a family
>heirloom. And all of you
>got it. Regardless of whether
>you were a woman, gay,
>really irish or italian or
>jewish, because you can become
>white. It is a legacy,
>this unearned privilege.
>
>>And
>>>why is this privilege spread
>>>to other people who look
>>>like you (or who became
>>>white) collectively?
>> b/c we look like the
>>ones who were/are the oppressers.
>
>No. Because they walked into this
>country being whoever they were.
>And then they got a
>taste of America. They understood
>what it was like to
>be an "other" and first
>chance they got, because, after
>all, their skin _was_ the
>right color, they assimulated into
>"white". They joined the dominant
>culture, the oppressors. And now,
>they are the oppressors themselves.
>
>
>Peace,
>
>Q
>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>"americans are gross!" -utamaroho
>
>Uplifting thoughts:
>
>"We are the end result of
>our ancestors prayers as they
>died. We you are the
>sum total of their answered
>prayers."
>
>"I am because we are; we
>are because I am."
>
>"falling in love with somebody's soul...their
>essence their personality their walk
>their talk the way they
>speak and smile...no matter what
>the physical outer body is..male
>or female...is a temptation i
>hope i am never foolish
>enough to resist." - Hot
>Damali



  

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CoolV

Sun Oct-14-01 04:05 AM

  
271. "RE: FYI"
In response to Reply # 222


          

Great dialogue here. This indicates a certain change of the tide. Ppl like Bboy218 need to be more vocal about there feelings on the issues that they would normally be silent about.

****************************************
"When the Black Man of North America makes up his mind to be that which Allah has created him to be, which is a replica of Himself, then and only then can he call the universe into order."

-Me.

Sorry, white folks, but the point of the matter is, historically, you've chosen to be the rebel...and this doesn't mean that I/we hate you. It's simply our job to expose it for what it is.
-Me in the 'Why the White man is the Devil' discussion.



  

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TinkyWinky
Charter member
2726 posts
Fri Oct-12-01 08:25 AM

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255. "people of color being racist"
In response to Reply # 221


          

People of color can
>have prejudice, can be bigotted,
>but they cannot, I repeat,
>cannot be racist.

careful with a generalization like this. power dynamics can exist on smaller scales that can still result in actual racism. an indian man or a chinese woman who owns a store is a person of color, but if they refuse to hire black employees or they won't hand the change to a black customer, isn't that racism within a small-scale power dynamic? maybe you and i equate racism with power via different means, but i view these examples as racism, albeit a non-institutionalized, non-normalized variety.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

V I V R A N C E 2001:
TinkyWinky - Posdnuos
Vivrant - q-tip
bfnh - dres
guinness - ju-ju
Mosaic - common
ILLWILL - Chi Ali! hahaha!!!
SqueegieXM - Prince Paul
Kay Dee - Ali Shaheed
Nickelz45 - psyco les
Raina - monie love
Phil - Jarobi
Donwill - trugoy

"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Fri Oct-12-01 01:42 PM

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261. "RE: people of color being racist"
In response to Reply # 255


          

I hear you.

But I have to wonder... isn't the power they assumed illusionary power? The abuse they have learned and internalized? Of course, I ain't gone think of it like that, but after I curse 'em out and get on with my bad self, I might think about it with a calmer mind and realize that they are acting out what the oppressor has acted out against them.

There are Black people who do this same thing against other Black people, for that matter. I don't think of it as racism as much as being lost and acting out of something that doesn't belong to them.

Know what I mean?

Get back to me, please.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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alek
Charter member
3625 posts
Fri Oct-12-01 02:45 PM

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263. "hypocritical distinctions..."
In response to Reply # 261


          

Tinky made the point I would have made, had I not resolved to stay off this post. But now...

>But I have to wonder... isn't
>the power they assumed illusionary
>power? The abuse they have
>learned and internalized? Of course,
>I ain't gone think of
>it like that, but after
>I curse 'em out and
>get on with my bad
>self, I might think about
>it with a calmer mind
>and realize that they are
>acting out what the oppressor
>has acted out against them.

And that leaves you...where?

This summer I worked for a public sector union, organizing hospital workers at UCSF Medical Center. It's San Francisco, so we had latino, filipino, asian, white, black, and polish (plus some extras).

There was enough prejudice and racism between Mexicans and Filipinos alone to ground you for a week. Yes, it makes some sense that people who struggled in the past might resent newer immigrants into their job market, but nevertheless, this organizing has to be done for everyone's good.

Same with the asian grocer. Everyone in our community, not just whoever you've defined as the "oppressor," has to confront racial issues...and everyone is responsible for acting on them.

>There are Black people who do
>this same thing against other
>Black people, for that matter.
>I don't think of it
>as racism as much as
>being lost and acting out
>of something that doesn't belong
>to them.

Well, I have trouble imagining that you'd afford the same leniency to a white person's personal prejudice...despite the fact that it's the SAME SYSTEM innoculating both.

Alek
______________________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What?! What?!

____________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What? What?

  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Sun Oct-14-01 09:35 AM

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272. "cultural distinctions: because everyone is not the same"
In response to Reply # 263


          

>Tinky made the point I would
>have made, had I not
>resolved to stay off this
>post. But now...

Tinky made a great point, but I think I want more discussion on it because I am not sure I would call this racism, but I don't know of a term for it. AND I think it speaks to the experience of people of color in America and the conditioning they have undertake which makes each other the enemy and the "cause" of things -- of how they have absorbed the dominant cultures stances and it turns us against each other. But I guess that is too much for you to think about? Come on, I have more respect for you than that.


>>But I have to wonder... isn't
>>the power they assumed illusionary
>>power? The abuse they have
>>learned and internalized? Of course,
>>I ain't gone think of
>>it like that, but after
>>I curse 'em out and
>>get on with my bad
>>self, I might think about
>>it with a calmer mind
>>and realize that they are
>>acting out what the oppressor
>>has acted out against them.
>
>And that leaves you...where?

Hopefully, it leaves me in a place where I am not acting out any way I am supposed to. It would be easy to get mad at them and say, oh, these kind of people hate Black folk, too. Harder is to trace it and understand where it comes from and look at it one a bigger level. We live in a racist society. Not only is it a racist society, but it is a pointed racist society that IS built on power -- case in point, who has access to media? *shakes head* Come on! I leaves me doing work. It leaves me having to look better, not do their work for them.

"Oh no, oh no, this one's not for sale." - Tracy Chapman, "Born to Fight"

>There was enough prejudice and racism
>between Mexicans and Filipinos alone
>to ground you for a
>week. Yes, it makes
>some sense that people who
>struggled in the past might
>resent newer immigrants into their
>job market, but nevertheless, this
>organizing has to be done
>for everyone's good.

See, that is too easy and too pat, for me. What makes sense is that they are both people of color in a racist society that makes it seem as though one is valued (we have talked about that who "model minority" stereotype white people give to/for Asian people -- except, you know, what Asians consider "niggers" Like Cambodians, Laotions, etc *rolls eyes*) and the other is not. That has caused a lot of flare-ups amongst people of color. It hasn't got ISH to do with who got here when and how much. It is the system/institution/dominant culture _using_ people of color against each other so that they can attend to other more pressing things... like attacking other people of color or something like that.

What I am trying to say, is that in-house fighting between people of color has a bigger frame than that which white people give it. They always see it as reason and excuse to scream out racism at people of color and thus feel better about their privilege and racism, but it is a lie.

Only when people of color can come into spaces without white people around to monitor and "mediate" (HA) can we work through our stuff. In short: y'all ain't needed.

>Same with the asian grocer.
>Everyone in our community, not
>just whoever you've defined as
>the "oppressor," has to confront
>racial issues...and everyone is responsible
>for acting on them.

Race is both illusion and frighteningly real. And racial issues are not universal nor the same across all boards and on all levels. What I, as a gay Black transmesh man, has to deal with racially speaking is going to differ as those words are pulled off and changed -- and this is the truth. We are standing on opposite sides of the very same monster, but what you have to contend with/confront is going to be very different from what I have to confront. While there are attempts on both of our minds to be invading, the method of this invasion is going to be very different. Whether it is because we are perceived differently, from these cultures, from these stances or what have you. The way in which _we_ confront and contend with racial issues is going to differ as well.

For example, I don't want white people involved in my work to reach out to other people of color and attempt to heal what harm has been done to both of us. And there are white people who are going to be offended by this, but I don't care because we have been kept apart from each other for long enough and it is time for us to sit down and have a chit-chat and talk about ourselves and our lives and them build coalitions.

And we don't need some "mediator" or "filter" between us.

Now the theoretical asian grocer, I can tell you, I wouldn't even go to her asking for work -- to be honest. Why? Because there IS work that needs to be done. They are being told that we are nothing more than lazy, lying, theiving people. Now, I could just look at that and be like: YOU think that ABOUT ME?! But that would be too easy. Instead, I think, Why do you think that about me? Who told you that? There are so many avenues to go through! And when I do, I realize that they are acting out, not something I did or something all of us have done, they are acting out what they have been told and in telling made differing experiences that validated what they were told because we are told some pretty harsh and horrible things about ourselves, too.

Do I think that is power? Yes. Whose power? Not the power of that Asian grocer. So what does that Asian grocer say to me? She says that I have work to do. Both on myself and herself. She tells me that I need to reach out to her and build a relationship with her... or her kids... (or her huzband *evil grin*) and we need to work on some stuff. I don't think this is the kind of power that makes my life hard. This is reality of "race" in America -- it keeps people of color apart from each other.

>>There are Black people who do
>>this same thing against other
>>Black people, for that matter.
>>I don't think of it
>>as racism as much as
>>being lost and acting out
>>of something that doesn't belong
>>to them.
>
>Well, I have trouble imagining that
>you'd afford the same leniency
>to a white person's personal
>prejudice...despite the fact that it's
>the SAME SYSTEM innoculating both.

Well, that's because we are coming at the same problem from two different stances. I don't know if I have explained where I am coming from in a way that you can understand it, but I feel that I understand where you are coming from. I'm sorry, but I simply cannot be bothered by univeralism as I know and preceive the difference and the difference is not what I want to eradicate, but I want to use to influence my creativity in facing what has to be faced -- which is building viable bonds between people of color so that we might, one day, together, all make the effort to bring this mutha down. Because, when it comes to white supremacy, for reals, we are all "niggers" and it is time...has been time... past time...


But, to answer you. I don't consider white people and their personal prejudice to be part of my community. Why should I -- because the same system is affecting them both? Nah, you forget, that I am a person of color, I am a Black man, and that being a Black men means more than simply being a "race" it means coming from a culture. It means having a culture passed on to me from my mother that stretches all the way back. A culture that was given to me before I even knew what a gift I had... and I have spoken (ha) and lived around a lot of Black people from different places and I see that this culture has been passed on and so I know what these Black people have lost.

I don't see white people in this light. I can't afford to make that transubstantive error. You can see them as lost if you want to, those are your people and your community and that's where you as a white ally can do your work... but don't expect me to do your work for you. I am not aware of what they have lost -- or, only aware of it in the theoretical. The same system may be affecting (innoculating is a very strange and awkward word to use there and in that sense, I feel...) both people, but I know what Black people have lost... and I understand what being lost is about. And for that I can feel for.

Unless you telling me I can't feel for Black folks.

*winks*

Peace,

Quentin


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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tinyteanie
Charter member
62 posts
Sun Oct-14-01 04:38 PM

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276. "Dude, so what"
In response to Reply # 221


          

White folks and black folks are still American. We're all still watching this propaganda on TV about hating Muslims and running around doing it. Black Americans have a privledge that others in other countries don't. Take a visit to France & see how you're treated next to your fellow "Africans". Trust me, your ass'll be claiming American in a New York minute. Perhaps that's how whites with priveledge feel. Torn. Like, damn it's not my fault it's like this, but I still want to get into that restaurant. Where do I check American?
However, privledge definitely has it's advantages. Please note this "privledge" is what brought down the World Trade center. The privledge of doing whatever the fuckyouwant to do because your ancestors did. And boy did they ever. Caesar, Napolean, Mussolini, all these crackers. All over territory, all over who had the biggest nuts. Well guess who's coming to dinner? Taliban got balls all over these arrogant white men. So if they're going to get it together they better make it quick. The war ain't in Afghanistan. The war will be here. They froze accounts of people they were making interest off of. "We'll let killers in as long as we make money off of them". What kind of arrogant bullshit is that? Some white male shit. Straight up. White men have this ego that is not comparable to anyone else. It's what makes them feel that they can run people off their land and start whole new societies off of the blood of the indigenous ones. See: Africa, India, Hong Kong, Hawaii, AMERICA....need I go on? You don't think anyone else in the world sees this? We're fed so much propaganda on the news it's coming out of our ass. We're basically bumbling idiots to even be posting as they're tracking us down now. I don't know, but I'm far more afraid of George Bush and what they're not telling us, than Bin Laden and what he IS telling us.

  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Mon Oct-15-01 04:25 AM

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277. "RE: Dude, so what"
In response to Reply # 276


          

*LOL*

I _really_ needed a laugh this morning.
Up too early
and a full day ahead.

Peace,

Q



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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alek
Charter member
3625 posts
Fri Oct-12-01 03:03 PM

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264. "Also..."
In response to Reply # 142


          

>Racism= race prejudice + power.

Agreed. But as TW implied, "power" is difficult to define.

>Because, in this country, people of
>color do not have (I
>shuld say it to be
>clear) _institutional power_ people of
>color are _incapable_ of being
>racist.

That's flat-out wrong. Of course, people of color don't share the same amount of "institutional" power that affluent white men have, but it certainly exists.

The African-American Church has a great deal of power.
AND, in my opinion, that power has been used many times in a racist way.

That's one example, but there are many. Our society conditions towards racism, and it conditions everyone.

So we all (including people of color) have a to fight it in others and in ourselves, because we're all susceptible.

>And it is no sin for
>people of color not to
>like or to even hate
>the dominant culture from time
>to time.

I, of course, disagree. For the reasons above, along with my respect for freedom, common sense, solidarity, etc.

>At least I
>don't think so because that
>kind of emotion is _healthy_.

Yeah, MC Ren. What a healthy person .

I'm assuming you at least would condemn acting on hatred, right?

Alek
______________________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What?! What?!

____________________________
LEFT side of the bedroom, fool!
What? What?

  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Sun Oct-14-01 10:00 AM

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273. "RE: Also..."
In response to Reply # 264


          

>>Racism= race prejudice + power.
>
>Agreed. But as TW implied,
>"power" is difficult to define.

Maybe to you. But to me, it feels pretty clear. -- all of its manifestations.

>>Because, in this country, people of
>>color do not have (I
>>shuld say it to be
>>clear) _institutional power_ people of
>>color are _incapable_ of being
>>racist.
>
>That's flat-out wrong. Of course,
>people of color don't share
>the same amount of "institutional"
>power that affluent white men
>have, but it certainly exists.

So, if we put power on an "you don't have as much as I do, but you have _some_" then everything is chill? What about your personal power/privilege? I have found, especially since 9/11, that even my power to speak is being taken away from me since it isn't popular. What I am to do? Am I to pretend that even compared to the poorest white person, I have some power he doesn't have? It ain't class we talking about, it's cultural imperalism and hegemony. But I guess class gives you some way to feel included and divests you of the need to think about it on the strange real/not real level on which race plays -- and all the things that come along with it.

>The African-American Church has a great
>deal of power.
>AND, in my opinion, that power
>has been used many times
>in a racist way.

Let's be honest: Christianity is racist AND has been used, is used as a vehicle to futher white cultural thought and behavior. now, inasfaras racism in Black churches, I don't see it because Black churches work on a bunch of different levels. Even though I don't espouse Christianity, I do know the importance of Black churches in its ability to bring people in the communities together and provide a kind of refuge from the our racist society.

Are you Black? Were you born and raised in Black churches?
I am and was. And I am very critical of said chuches for my own personal reasons, but power? Racism? *ha* Hmmm... Martin didn't know, did he?

>That's one example, but there are
>many. Our society conditions
>towards racism, and it conditions
>everyone.

No. I don't agree with this. Our society perpetuates racism, but the people within that society conditions all of us to "know our place" within the scheme of perpetuated racism. And again, how we are conditioned into/around/towards racism is _extremely_ different. Please, start to understand that racism is not received by people of different American cultures the same and resist going for the easy, universalistic proclamations.

>So we all (including people of
>color) have a to fight
>it in others and in
>ourselves, because we're all susceptible.

Yes and no. I am not fighting internal racism because I don't have any. I might have to fight internal bigotry or race prejudice, but I have no racism because no power is given to my utterances for my race prejudice to affect YOUR life. Now, when I start publishing on a larger scale, I will have to rethink this. I will have to be a bit more responsible than I am now... but until that moment, I am powerless to affect your life through any race prejudice I might have. And that is the power I am talking about.

White people have to work _very hard_ at undoing their racism and even SEEING their racism because they are in a society that also makes them very blind to it.

But our work, in working against racism, is not the same nor is it rooted from the same spot. However, hopefully, we can see ourselves moving in the same direction.

>>And it is no sin for
>>people of color not to
>>like or to even hate
>>the dominant culture from time
>>to time.
>
>I, of course, disagree. For
>the reasons above, along with
>my respect for freedom, common
>sense, solidarity, etc.

One always has the right to dislike and hate someone who has unfair, one-way street ways of affecting one's life to their detriment. Whatever your words. And see, this is yet another place where you can't understand me because you have not yet realized that we are coming from two different places. Once the realize that, perhaps you will grow into realizing something you can't seem to realize right now...

>>At least I
>>don't think so because that
>>kind of emotion is _healthy_.
>
>Yeah, MC Ren. What a
>healthy person .

????

>I'm assuming you at least would
>condemn acting on hatred, right?

I'm afraid we are conditioned to not act out on it even if we wanted. But people will do what they will do. And it certainly doesn't stop white people from acting out on their... um... I don't think it's really hatred... fear... But, I guess, we aren't really talking about that, are we?

*winks*


Peace,

Q

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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osamabinshorty
Charter member
28 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 09:35 AM

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56. "RE: Amazing"
In response to Reply # 24


          

>truly f**kin amazing how you take
>some ignorant ass racist post
>and try to legitimatize it
>as fact. This is the
>same shit that racists whites
>do.
White Racist act on their words by, I dunno, fire bombing Masjids and beating Sihks to death...
>I swear i want off this
>planet. All you mofo's are
>crazy. white black, muslim, jew,
>christian every friggin body is
>just so damn full of
>hate.
We are not full of hate YOU are full of misconception and assumed racist ideas...it's a generalizatoin, we do ALL the time...have you ever seen "Dangerous Minds"?...I rest my case
>"ALL people are gross" me
Maybe you just smell funny...you know, white people smell like wet dogs...=D

(((salaam)))
"GET UP NOW!!!"Kweli&Mos
"These cats drink champange to toast death and pain like slaves on a ship talkin' 'bout who got the flyest chain..."Kweli

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 07:15 AM

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189. "BYE"
In response to Reply # 24


          

TAH TAH for now buddy. Tell me how space is.
I love Planet Home and that ain't no lie.
LOLOL!!
YOu seem to be full of hate for those who are full of hate. Doesn't that make you just like them?
Just a question.

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 09:40 AM

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57. "hot damn"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

hell of a point u made there

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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Ts_Aura9

Wed Oct-10-01 12:30 PM

  
101. "CO-SIGN ONE MO GIN'!"
In response to Reply # 10


          

THE KEY PHRASE HERE IS FOLKS AGREE TO DISAGREE RESPECTFULLY

"Oh shyt you're ill, I like the way your mind moves around at will" De La Soul


  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 12:34 PM

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102. "When u say it"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

it makes much more sense.

However, I'm 100% sure that if Irish terrorists had destroyed the WTC, either the US and UK would be bombing Ireland.

_______________________

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 12:35 PM

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103. "remove the "either""
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

I meant to say the US and the UK would be bombing Ireland.

Bombs over Dublin and shit.

_______________________

  

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AZ
Charter member
12930 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 12:51 PM

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104. "doubt it"
In response to Reply # 103


          

Boston is the main financial hub of the IRA. The IRA has been responsible for numerous bombings in the UK. The UK has never bombed Boston, accused the US of being terrorists, accused the US of being terrorist sympathizers, or accused the US of sheltering terrorists.

____________________________________________

"we Jews control the US" - Ariel Sharon

"Oh You who believe ! Stand out firmly for Justice, as witnesses to God, even against yourself, against your children and against your parents. Against people who are rich or poor. Because God is the best of all Protectors. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you should deviate from justice. Verily God is well acquainted with all that you do."

Holy Quran, Chapter 4: Verse 135

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 12:56 PM

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105. "Magnitude."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

They've never done anything even remotely approaching the magnitude of hijacking 4 domestic flights and crashing 2 of them into WTC, and a 3rd into the Pentagon.

_______________________

  

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bboy218

Wed Oct-10-01 08:01 PM

  
141. "RE: doubt it"
In response to Reply # 104


          

I think we would totally bomb Ireland, there is still a pretty fucked up view of the Irish in the world today. Hell, the Irish werent even considered to have attained "whiteness" until the 1930's or 40's.

  

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mE__again
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5843 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 11:50 PM

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153. "RE: doubt it"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

>I think we would totally bomb
>Ireland, there is still
>a pretty fucked up view
>of the Irish in the
>world today. Hell, the
>Irish werent even considered to
>have attained "whiteness" until the
>1930's or 40's.

you must be joking? the economic implications on the uk and its own national security would make it virtually impossible for this to happen. neither will other eu countires or nato countries accept this. and no, ireland is not some 'back water' nation in europe

---------------------------
exactly why i hate dumb fucks like MEN...i hope your 1 inch dick gets burnt off mutha fucka...i figured some stupid ass loser with nothing better to do would respond like that...cuz men have no FUCKIN brains...but anyway u prolly the kind of guy who can't get a girl so i don't blame u for hating us...since we of course r BETTER LOOKING than u ugly ass mutha fuckin men...dam it and ya'll wonder why larana bobbet cut her mans dick off... - MostBlunted to mE__again

---------------------------
mE__again AKA mE_again AKA mE AKA joe1192

mE__again appears courtesy of joe1192 productions

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 03:04 AM

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158. "All the more reason for war."
In response to Reply # 153


  

          

Ireland is not some backwater country in Europe. If Ireland were supporting the IRA in attacks like those a month ago, there would probably be a conventional war.

Hell, if Canadian terrorists pulled off attacks like those from a month ago w/the support of the Canadian govt, there'd be a war.

Point is, regardless of who's responsible, the US wouldn't and couldn't allow those actions to go unanswered. No way.

_______________________

  

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mE__again
Charter member
5843 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 03:19 AM

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161. "RE: All the more reason for war."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

true the us would not allow such actions to go unanswered, but no way will they come out guns blazing. hell, i dont think they'll come out guns blazing if a country like north korea was involved

---------------------------
exactly why i hate dumb fucks like MEN...i hope your 1 inch dick gets burnt off mutha fucka...i figured some stupid ass loser with nothing better to do would respond like that...cuz men have no FUCKIN brains...but anyway u prolly the kind of guy who can't get a girl so i don't blame u for hating us...since we of course r BETTER LOOKING than u ugly ass mutha fuckin men...dam it and ya'll wonder why larana bobbet cut her mans dick off... - MostBlunted to mE__again

---------------------------
mE__again AKA mE_again AKA mE AKA joe1192

mE__again appears courtesy of joe1192 productions

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 03:20 AM

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162. "They're not "guns blazing" now."
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

The attacks against the Taliban have been relatively reserved and measured.

_______________________

  

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mE__again
Charter member
5843 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 03:34 AM

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165. "RE: They're not "guns blazing" now."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

ok, not guns blazing but somewhat intense

---------------------------
exactly why i hate dumb fucks like MEN...i hope your 1 inch dick gets burnt off mutha fucka...i figured some stupid ass loser with nothing better to do would respond like that...cuz men have no FUCKIN brains...but anyway u prolly the kind of guy who can't get a girl so i don't blame u for hating us...since we of course r BETTER LOOKING than u ugly ass mutha fuckin men...dam it and ya'll wonder why larana bobbet cut her mans dick off... - MostBlunted to mE__again

---------------------------
mE__again AKA mE_again AKA mE AKA joe1192

mE__again appears courtesy of joe1192 productions

  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 06:21 AM

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176. "RE: They're not "guns blazing" now."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

>The attacks against the Taliban have
>been relatively reserved and measured.
>

2000lb bombs?, cluster bombs? "bunker busters?" i guess i should ask relative to what?
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 10:37 AM

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216. "Relative to"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

WWII
Vietnam
WWI
The War of 1812

..etc.

_______________________

  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 01:52 PM

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227. "RE: Relative to"
In response to Reply # 216


  

          

Yimhotep
>WWII
>Vietnam
>WWI
>The War of 1812
>
>..etc.

but dear, it's just begun!

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 02:52 PM

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232. "Well, look at this."
In response to Reply # 227


  

          

Now you're buying into the govt propaganda.

lol

_______________________

  

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bboy218

Thu Oct-11-01 08:12 AM

  
201. "RE: doubt it"
In response to Reply # 153


          

Why must we always twist others words around? When did I say Ireland was a back water country? I didnt. We all do this, hell Im probably to blame too, in this game. But, no really, Irish and Scottish are not viewed in a very good light with lots of english, this is true. They were oppresed by the english for hundreds of years the same way minorities were (and still are) here. Check the history, its all there.

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 07:29 AM

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192. "RE: doubt it"
In response to Reply # 141


          

Gimme a fuckin break.
Irish people are white. Period!!
European Union is not going to allow countries to bomb themselves.
Stop the verbal violence NOW PLEASE!!
Ya'll be sayin some boo boo head shit.

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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cued
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1748 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 09:57 AM

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212. "RE: doubt it"
In response to Reply # 192


          

peace3,

Thank you for saying this cuz you know it's the truth. They ain't gone attack each other! That whole... European nations (west) attacking each other is OVAH (as they would say on Iron Chef)

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 10:44 AM

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219. "Ya think?"
In response to Reply # 212


  

          

Have you studied history?

Alliances btw nations break down all the time.

Hell, during WWII, the US and USSR were big ol' allies. Look what happened to that. The UK and France are friendly now, but that goes against centuries of history when they were bitter enemies. And I don't even have to mention Germany (I hope). They've gone back and forth several times w/all the major powers of Europe.

Point is, things are calm over there now, but this calm is a historical anomaly. It's an aberration.

_______________________

  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 01:55 PM

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228. "U Watch that..."
In response to Reply # 212


  

          

Yimhotep
...2?
they do amazing stuff w/ mushrooms, ok back to the discussion. Don't encourage me to jack my own post please
>on Iron Chef)
>
>Peace,
>
>Q


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Okayteacher
Charter member
760 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 07:32 PM

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139. "wow, i thought this was a typo.."
In response to Reply # 102


          


>However, I'm 100% sure that if
>Irish terrorists had destroyed the
>WTC, either the US and
>UK would be bombing Ireland.

i could have sworn you meant to write would NOT be bombing ireland... '100% sure,' huh?

  

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mE__again
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Wed Oct-10-01 11:44 PM

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152. "bomb ireland?"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

impossible. if the IRA were the ones responsible, you think the uk and the us will bomb ireland? IMPOSSIBLE!!! unless the uk wants to internally explode they will do no such thing. clamp down on the IRA? yes. but bomb ireland? hell NAH.

just think of the economic implications of them bombing a country thats part of the eu. no way nato or the eu will even accept it.

---------------------------
exactly why i hate dumb fucks like MEN...i hope your 1 inch dick gets burnt off mutha fucka...i figured some stupid ass loser with nothing better to do would respond like that...cuz men have no FUCKIN brains...but anyway u prolly the kind of guy who can't get a girl so i don't blame u for hating us...since we of course r BETTER LOOKING than u ugly ass mutha fuckin men...dam it and ya'll wonder why larana bobbet cut her mans dick off... - MostBlunted to mE__again

---------------------------
mE__again AKA mE_again AKA mE AKA joe1192

mE__again appears courtesy of joe1192 productions

  

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HotThyng76
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51232 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 03:00 AM

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157. "There would be a war."
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

The US couldn't allow an attack of that nature to go w/o some sort of STRONG response.

_______________________

  

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mE__again
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5843 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 03:17 AM

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160. "yes"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

but surely you agree that 'your' response will be more cautious and definitely not on the scale of what we are about to witness in afghanistan. but i guess the irish people as a whole will condem the IRA unlike the taliban. but no way will other european countries allow such bombing to happen in ireland

---------------------------
exactly why i hate dumb fucks like MEN...i hope your 1 inch dick gets burnt off mutha fucka...i figured some stupid ass loser with nothing better to do would respond like that...cuz men have no FUCKIN brains...but anyway u prolly the kind of guy who can't get a girl so i don't blame u for hating us...since we of course r BETTER LOOKING than u ugly ass mutha fuckin men...dam it and ya'll wonder why larana bobbet cut her mans dick off... - MostBlunted to mE__again

---------------------------
mE__again AKA mE_again AKA mE AKA joe1192

mE__again appears courtesy of joe1192 productions

  

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HotThyng76
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Thu Oct-11-01 03:22 AM

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163. "The war in Afghanistan"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

is not going to look like the wars we've seen in the past. It'll be mostly covert action.

_______________________

  

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JBlaze
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Thu Oct-11-01 08:57 AM

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205. "RE: yes"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

>but surely you agree that 'your'
>response will be more cautious
>and definitely not on the
>scale of what we are
>about to witness in afghanistan.
>but i guess the irish
>people as a whole will
>condem the IRA unlike the
>taliban.

This is a different situation. You are talking about Ireland and Northern Ireland as if they are the same country. Ireland is it's own nation and Northern Ireland is a rightful part of Ireland claimed and currently (for the last 500 years) occupied by England. If you go to Norther Ireland, Sinn Fein (the IRA would be inaccurate when compared to the Taliban) has as much or more support with Catholics than Taliban does with it's people. The only people that want the British in Northern Ireland are the British and the Protestants that live there.

but no way will
>other european countries allow such
>bombing to happen in ireland

This is true and is fucked up.




  

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peace3
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Thu Oct-11-01 07:26 AM

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191. "RE: When u say it"
In response to Reply # 102


          

What are you smokin?

U.S. and U.K. would not I repeat WOULD NOT bomb Ireland. Don't be foolish.

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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Solarus
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Thu Oct-11-01 07:57 PM

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242. "Ummm, no"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

Akwaaba

Are you serious?

"I'm 100% sure that if Irish terrorists had destroyed the WTC, either the US and UK would be bombing Ireland."

Come one now. Irish people are HUMANS (according to the Western view)!!!! Noone would be bombing Ireland. The IRA would be seen totally separate from the "irish people." Unlike the Afghans who ALL are terrorists.

Wake up for real...


SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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kemetian
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Thu Oct-11-01 08:01 PM

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244. "RE: Ummm, no"
In response to Reply # 242


  

          

Yimhotep
my hope is getting slimmer and slimmer for HotThyng.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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HotThyng76
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Fri Oct-12-01 07:47 AM

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253. "Now you're exaggerating."
In response to Reply # 242


  

          


_______________________

  

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queen333
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Wed Oct-10-01 03:02 PM

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124. "nice response poetx"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

PEACE
C.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.

- Anais Nin

OneLoVe
C*

  

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yuckwheat
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Thu Oct-11-01 01:12 AM

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155. "waitaminutenow"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

white people's fear of black folks is RATIONAL.

they fear what they had done to us, will be done back to them. that would only be logical from their perspective.



  

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kemetian
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Thu Oct-11-01 06:24 AM

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177. "RE: waitaminutenow"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

Yimhotep
>white people's fear of black folks
>is RATIONAL.
>
>they fear what they had done
>to us, will be done
>back to them. that would
>only be logical from their
>perspective.

i feel u, but i think the point is, they fear what they've done, not what we've done. there is no historical basis (on our part) for them to fear us, we haven't done anything to them in any way comparable to what they've done to us. so what they fear is their own actions.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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peace3
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31620 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 07:08 AM

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188. "Well said brotha"
In response to Reply # 10


          

That was beautiful

Correct Speach heals flesh and tissue.

Hotep
peace3

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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Zarathuckya
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Thu Oct-11-01 04:39 PM

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238. "RE: interesting perspective."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

word up!

ThuŠŠP@k€ŽåRåTHû©kYâ

  

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Qsoul
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98 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 05:48 PM

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133. "RE: Racists"
In response to Reply # 1


          

You showed real intelligence when you decided to base a stereotype against a broad (and truly non-existent) race on those "scary alien movies"

I bet you gonna just welcome those UFOS on down

  

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ape
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314 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 05:04 PM

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2. "thoughts"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i love the way you are grouping all white people together as being identical, all having the same desires, fears, beliefs etc.

why don`t we do this with some other groups?

black people
arabs
jews
christians
muslims
hindus

the list is endless. its very easy once you`ve placed someone in a group to stop viewing them as an individual human being.

how many attacks on people around the world are based on what group thar person has been identified as belonging to, regardless of their actions as an individual.

and how many of these attacks could not happen if the perpetrator was forced instead to see that person as an individual, perhaps wholly innocent of any crimes the group has supposedly committed?

peace

  

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QoolSkip
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714 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 05:05 PM

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4. "Agreed"
In response to Reply # 2


          

its just pure ignorance

  

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Federisco
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Wed Oct-10-01 03:58 AM

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22. "swallow the camel"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

And instead check what she is saying. Ignore her ignorance, and check her opinion.

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Wed Oct-10-01 04:52 AM

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31. "Funniest thing I've heard all day"
In response to Reply # 22


          

Yeah, it's only 10:30 but "Ignore her ignorance"? hahahhahahah


<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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DonKnutts
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27064 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 05:07 PM

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5. "there are very interesting points"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that you raise. i am intrigued. will comment later.

  

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mdiddy
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591 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 06:29 PM

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6. "RE: there are very interesting points"
In response to Reply # 5


          

white people are some scary Mother fuckers!

  

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5thcolumn
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545 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 06:42 PM

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7. "only in group format"
In response to Reply # 6


          

but yeah, this post is ridiculous
5th

  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 07:21 PM

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9. "*clears throat*"
In response to Reply # 7


          

....

and what is a government
if not a group

what is a society...
if not a group?

Indeed

what is a culture....
if not a group?

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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5thcolumn
Charter member
545 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 06:58 AM

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40. "look--up above--"
In response to Reply # 9


          

flying over your head--it'a my point!
All I am saying is that white people are not scary at all. In large groups, they'll fuck shit up though. But so will any other color, any other culture. I was just making a joke, but if we want to get into it, cultural stupidity has nothing to do with one's color. The majority of American culture applies...as does African, European, Asian, etc.

  

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cued
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1748 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 07:19 PM

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8. "*growls*"
In response to Reply # 0


          

kemetian, I hear you.

Check out "Statues and what we really know about Afghanistan"

I see into what you are saying instead of meeting it on some stupid slick surface.

However, I have been thinking a lot about Ani and how this (meaning all this shit) fits into the European asili, utamawazo, and utamaroho. It fits TOOO perfectly.

And this fear you are talking about is well-suited -- ignore those silly people talking about racism... what you have put your finger on is a pulse.

To be white is to be in constant fear. The only time, I think, they are not in fear is when they have created an illusion that they are in control and that other (both "other" and other) think and behave the same way as they do.

Really, I feel sorry for them. I really do.

But it is the truth. If you listen to the news, you can hear the manifestation of this fear in the rhetoric they use... in who they are painting as enemy, in where they think future attacks might occur and why... *shakes head* Sometimes, I look at all of this and think it is a bad soap opera. Too predictable and hackneyed. The only thing is... the people aren't pretty enough to look at for an hour... and what they are doing... is awful... and destructive... and the perfume in the air... is fear.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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ape
Charter member
314 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 07:50 PM

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12. "stupid slick surface"
In response to Reply # 8


          

so

white=american=european=british=french=german=italian=scandinavian=spanish=australian=rich=poor=catholic=gay=conservative=radical=protestant=mainstream=republican=democrat=straight=student=old=young=nationalist=activist=communist=fascist=pacifist=russian=government=manonthestreet=intellectual=stupid=...........

this is not even scratching the surface of how many different categories white people could usefully be put into.

perhaps kemetian has valid points to raise, which could be usefully discussed. however, to aim them at as broad as category as `white people` is useless. the only sole unifying factor you`re going to find is that there white, and there human.

same goes for categories such as `black`, `arab` etc.

peace

  

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ape
Charter member
314 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 07:51 PM

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13. "RE: stupid slick surface"
In response to Reply # 12


          

oops, wiiiiide post.

peace

  

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cued
Charter member
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Tue Oct-09-01 07:58 PM

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14. "RE: stupid slick surface"
In response to Reply # 12


          

Mkay, Wideload...

Perhaps the problem is with the word "people"
Would culture make you feel better?

Probably not...

*snorts*

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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ape
Charter member
314 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 08:23 PM

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17. "RE: stupid slick surface"
In response to Reply # 14


          

sorry

no better when you use the word culture.

its just too wide a term to be useful.

a white, southern, klansmen`s view of culture is going to be different from a white, milanese, italian`s view of culture.

peace


  

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Federisco
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5002 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 04:35 AM

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25. "check #22 n/m"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

.

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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DrNO
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25381 posts
Tue Oct-09-01 07:49 PM

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11. "RE: White Ppl & Fear"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>they fear their children - they
>stigmatize teenagers and portray them
>as ppl to be feared
I dont, my parents dont


>they fear each other (seen Lifetime
>lately?)
Garbage, people fear harm, its an instinct that keeps us alive

>they fear nature - look @
>all the movies on volcanoes,
>hurricanes and natural "distasters"
O ris it people like special effects? you wouldnt blink if a volcano blew up next to your house i suppose?

>fear of the unknown - movies
>on "scary aliens"
once again its fantasy i dont know anyone who goes to sci fi movies and gets scared

>they fear growing old
of course all people do, no one wants to be closer to death

>the fear other ppl - see
>women clutch their purses @
>the sight of a black
>man
I dont

>they fear the spirit world -
>ghosts (w/ the exception of
>casper) r usually a bad
>thing
Not many people even believe in that


___________________________________
Doc NO be sippin rum outta Stanley cups

Whatever hot hardheads get shattered like mirrors

AIM: DocNO22

big NO steps off laughin


_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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Federisco
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5002 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 04:41 AM

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27. "Assumption is a mother"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

of very many diseases

>>they fear growing old
>of course all people do, no
>one wants to be closer
>to death
>
>>they fear the spirit world -
>>ghosts (w/ the exception of
>>casper) r usually a bad
>>thing
>Not many people even believe in
>that

If you post AGAINST generalizations, you shouldnt generalize and assume yourself

Look outside america

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 06:35 AM

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39. "RE: White Ppl & Fear"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>>they fear their children - they
>>stigmatize teenagers and portray them
>>as ppl to be feared
>I dont, my parents dont
>
>
>>they fear each other (seen Lifetime
>>lately?)
>Garbage, people fear harm, its an
>instinct that keeps us alive

when u talk about "people" who are u talking about? when u talk about "us" who r u talking about?


>>they fear nature - look @
>>all the movies on volcanoes,
>>hurricanes and natural "distasters"
>O ris it people like special
>effects? you wouldnt blink if
>a volcano blew up next
>to your house i suppose?

i am talking bout the view of "mother nature" as something to be feared, watch the discovery channel listen to the titles, what's a raging sea to u is a message being sent to another ppl. "flooding" of the nile wasn't a problem for the ppl native to the land.

>>fear of the unknown - movies
>>on "scary aliens"
>once again its fantasy i dont
>know anyone who goes to
>sci fi movies and gets
>scared

it's the view that i am talking about, the mere fact that the intention is to make u scared, so that if an alien were to appear to u, based on what u've seen what would be your reaction?

>>they fear growing old
>of course all people do, no
>one wants to be closer
>to death

again, when u talk about "no one" who r u talking about, i know plenty of peoples (not ppl) who don't fear/run away from age, it's a good thing.

>>the fear other ppl - see
>>women clutch their purses @
>>the sight of a black
>>man
>I dont
>
>>they fear the spirit world -
>>ghosts (w/ the exception of
>>casper) r usually a bad
>>thing
>Not many people even believe in
>that
>

again who are the "many people" u r referring to? believe in what, the spirit world or believe that it is something to be feared?

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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DrNO
Charter member
25381 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 01:01 PM

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106. "I guess i dont think like you"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

I dont need to attatch descriptions of skin colour, religion etc. to everyone "us" refers to humans. As for natural disasters, when I watched a show on that Volcano in the Philiphines the people there seemed pretty damn scared. Skin pigment doesnt change the chemicals in the brain and how we instinctively react to things that threaten our survival.
___________________________________
Doc NO be sippin rum outta Stanley cups

Whatever hot hardheads get shattered like mirrors

AIM: DocNO22

big NO steps off laughin


_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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leaf
Charter member
1351 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 01:29 PM

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107. "Nope..."
In response to Reply # 106


          

>I dont need to attatch descriptions
>of skin colour, religion etc.
>to everyone "us" refers to
>humans. As for natural disasters,
>when I watched a show
>on that Volcano in the
>Philiphines the people there seemed
>pretty damn scared. Skin pigment
>doesnt change the chemicals in
>the brain and how we
>instinctively react to things that
>threaten our survival.

People WILL often react differently depending on many things, their skin colour, gender, etc, etc. Why? Not because of chemicals in the brain, to take that road would be like trying to find scientific basis for race, and we all know how fuckin laughable that is. No, because your reactions, decisions, emotions differ depending on your experiences, and people who look different are not gonna be treated the same in this society. In the face of a white cop in a dark street, who's gonna show more fear, the black/asian/latino/insertanydistinctgrouphere, or a white guy in a suit? Doesn't answer the original ?, but there ya go,
-B

}-------the longest sig yet--------{

It's _____ oclock, do you know where your LEAF is?!!??
Somewhere the fuck lost in New Zealand!!!

"I look at him and its like, who would fuck you?"-Kids in the Hall

Due to an increase in Boredom, the username leaf will be subcontracting his duties occasionally to 'ThaCanadianNomad'.
It remains to be seen how much extra cyber ass this will get him.

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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DrNO
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Wed Oct-10-01 01:43 PM

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111. "I was sayin"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

do you think that only white americans are scared of terrorist attacks? only white people are afraid of death? Arab americans are scared of other people but they arent white. So are whites the only people who experience fear? and as for what you were sayin if a white person was surrounded by KKK they probably wouldn be very scared and a non-white would be scared. Fear isnt race specific, its a part of our survival mechanism. Fearless people would end up dead in this world.

___________________________________
Doc NO be sippin rum outta Stanley cups

Whatever hot hardheads get shattered like mirrors

AIM: DocNO22

big NO steps off laughin


_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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leaf
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Wed Oct-10-01 01:52 PM

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112. "I know what you were sayin, Doc"
In response to Reply # 111


          

But you've gotta be careful not to mix the cause and effect of human tendencies, I think. To fear as a base human trait may be universal but how it is applied differs greatly on social aspects. Nature is a poor example anyways, it should ellicit similar response because it doesn't descriminate.

But lest I pick a fight with a Vancouverite (you are, arent'cha?)
Peace,
-B


}-------the longest sig yet--------{

It's _____ oclock, do you know where your LEAF is?!!??
Somewhere the fuck lost in New Zealand!!!

"I look at him and its like, who would fuck you?"-Kids in the Hall

Due to an increase in Boredom, the username leaf will be subcontracting his duties occasionally to 'ThaCanadianNomad'.
It remains to be seen how much extra cyber ass this will get him.

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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DrNO
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Wed Oct-10-01 02:11 PM

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116. "RE: I know what you were sayin, Doc"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

these terorist acts arent aimed at just "white Americans" they didnt make sure the planes were only filled with white people, they didnt hit buildings filled only with white people. So why the hell would only white people be scared! and all people are afraid of death if they werent religions wouldnt promise afterlifes, no one would care about gun control, the death penalty wouldnt be such a hot issue.

___________________________________
Doc NO be sippin rum outta Stanley cups

Whatever hot hardheads get shattered like mirrors

AIM: DocNO22

big NO steps off laughin


_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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DrNO
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117. "and I'm a Calgarian"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

but we're both from the west so peace
___________________________________
Doc NO be sippin rum outta Stanley cups

Whatever hot hardheads get shattered like mirrors

AIM: DocNO22

big NO steps off laughin


_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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queen333
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Wed Oct-10-01 08:32 PM

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147. "a fellow Albertan!"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

Edmonton's in the house.
Guess we are rivals though
hey?

ONE
C.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.

- Anais Nin

OneLoVe
C*

  

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leaf
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Thu Oct-11-01 06:08 AM

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173. "Hah!"
In response to Reply # 147


          

}-------the longest sig yet--------{

It's _____ oclock, do you know where your LEAF is?!!??
Somewhere the fuck lost in New Zealand!!!

"I look at him and its like, who would fuck you?"-Kids in the Hall

Due to an increase in Boredom, the username leaf will be subcontracting his duties occasionally to 'ThaCanadianNomad'.
It remains to be seen how much extra cyber ass this will get him.

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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leaf
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Thu Oct-11-01 06:10 AM

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174. "RE: Hah!"
In response to Reply # 173


          

Go harvest some wheat, of sumthin
-B

Disclaimer: I love Albertans and have been there many..well a few time

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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queen333
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Thu Oct-11-01 12:31 PM

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225. "RE: Hah!"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

I may be from the Praries, but
I'm damn sure not a farm girl!
LOL!

C.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.

- Anais Nin

OneLoVe
C*

  

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DrNO
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Thu Oct-11-01 08:39 PM

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246. "RE: Hah!"
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

GO to davey street or somethin leaf
___________________________________
Doc NO be sippin rum outta Stanley cups

AIM: DocNO22

big NO signs off laughin


_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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DrNO
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245. "Damn straight"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

but this year the Clagary/Edmonton beef sux because the Stamps and the Flames suck. I live in Winterpeg though but theres no way im reppin this place, movin back to Calgary this summer hopefully.
___________________________________
Doc NO be sippin rum outta Stanley cups

AIM: DocNO22

big NO signs off laughin


_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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leaf
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Wed Oct-10-01 03:40 PM

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127. "I think"
In response to Reply # 116


          

I think that the idea can be applied to more than just the attacks, and it isn't the only consideration or factor that dictates personal outlook. BTW the reason I don't feel like visiting indonesia right now is that I'm visibly western: young, caucasian, clothes, manurisms (sp) etc. Sure, it wasn't all white cristian americans that were killed, but some targets are more easily identified than others. I would be more afraid in a muslim country now as I currently appear, american or not as I am, than if I had signs of devout muslim faith. It's about perception.

Peace,
-B

}-------the longest sig yet--------{

It's _____ oclock, do you know where your LEAF is?!!??
Somewhere the fuck lost in New Zealand!!!

"I look at him and its like, who would fuck you?"-Kids in the Hall

Due to an increase in Boredom, the username leaf will be subcontracting his duties occasionally to 'ThaCanadianNomad'.
It remains to be seen how much extra cyber ass this will get him.

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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DrNO
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Wed Oct-10-01 05:53 PM

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135. "The point of terrorism"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

is to make ALL of the people in a country feel that their leaders cannot protect them key word:ALL
I see your point but fear of nat disasters, aliens, ghosts, death, these are not race specific fears at all.
___________________________________
Doc NO be sippin rum outta Stanley cups

Whatever hot hardheads get shattered like mirrors

AIM: DocNO22

big NO steps off laughin


_
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0
http://preptimeposse.blogspot.com/

  

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leaf
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Wed Oct-10-01 09:20 PM

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151. "well"
In response to Reply # 135


          

>is to make ALL of the
>people in a country feel
>that their leaders cannot protect
>them key word:ALL
I would say that the point of terrorism is generally to make ALL of a certain group feel threatened due to something they all share. So this could be seen as an attack on America, or it could be seen as an attack on western culture, or... Neither of us will know, because we didn't fly any planes into buildings. Either way, I could be easily mistaken for an american because of my appearance, speech, etc, and the perception is more important than the reality in this case.

>I see your point but fear
>of nat disasters, aliens, ghosts,
>death, these are not race
>specific fears at all.
No, I agree

Peace (so ya can rip off my sig agai )
-B

}-------the longest sig yet--------{

It's _____ oclock, do you know where your LEAF is?!!??
Somewhere the fuck lost in New Zealand!!!

"I look at him and its like, who would fuck you?"-Kids in the Hall

Due to an increase in Boredom, the username leaf will be subcontracting his duties occasionally to 'ThaCanadianNomad'.
It remains to be seen how much extra cyber ass this will get him.

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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JBlaze
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171 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 09:12 AM

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207. "RE: Nope..."
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

>>I dont need to attatch descriptions
>>of skin colour, religion etc.
>>to everyone "us" refers to
>>humans. As for natural disasters,
>>when I watched a show
>>on that Volcano in the
>>Philiphines the people there seemed
>>pretty damn scared. Skin pigment
>>doesnt change the chemicals in
>>the brain and how we
>>instinctively react to things that
>>threaten our survival.
>
>People WILL often react differently depending
>on many things, their skin
>colour, gender, etc, etc.
>Why? Not because of
>chemicals in the brain, to
>take that road would be
>like trying to find scientific
>basis for race, and we
>all know how fuckin laughable
>that is. No, because
>your reactions, decisions, emotions differ
>depending on your experiences, and
>people who look different are
>not gonna be treated the
>same in this society.
>In the face of a
>white cop in a dark
>street, who's gonna show more
>fear, the black/asian/latino/insertanydistinctgrouphere, or a
>white guy in a suit?

You're confusing class with race. You say "black/asian/latino/insertanydistinctgrouphere" and then contrast it with a "suit". I guess to you "black/asian/latino/insertanydistinctgrouphere" means poor. Who's gonna show more fear a white boy with a case or Michael Powell.

Regardless, I pray it's not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.




  

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HotThyng76
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Wed Oct-10-01 03:37 AM

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19. "Since 'white' ppl are so skurry"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Name some folks who're more brave.

_______________________

  

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kemetian
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Wed Oct-10-01 05:52 AM

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33. "RE: Since 'white' ppl are so skurry"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Yimhotep
>Name some folks who're more brave.
>
the guy who represented al qaeda and the like-minded ppl he mentioned.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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HotThyng76
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:05 AM

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65. "Wrong answer."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Since you put it on the level of an entire "race" w/your initial statement, follow it up in your response to my question.

In other words, what "race" of ppl are less skurry than Whitey?

_______________________

  

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HotThyng76
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Wed Oct-10-01 03:40 AM

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20. "Oh, 1 more thing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

KILL WHITEY!!

KILL THAT MOTHERFUCKER!!

KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!KILL HIM!!

KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILL HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_______________________

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Wed Oct-10-01 04:39 AM

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26. "Interp of Baraka? n/m"
In response to Reply # 20


          

CocoB

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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Solarus
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28. "***shaking head***"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          


____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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HotThyng76
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:07 AM

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66. "I mean, why?"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

Why all the beating around the bush w/this nonsense about "white" ppl being more scared than other "races"?

Since Kemetian didn't have the conviction to say what s/he really meant, I said it for her/him.

"KILL THAT MOTHERFUCKER!!! KIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLL HIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMM!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Ahhhhhhh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...."

_______________________

  

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kemetian
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:24 AM

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73. "RE: I mean, why?"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

Yimhotep

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT KILLING WHITE PPL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok?

how do u go from here we have a civilization built on fear, the instillin gof fear in other ppl, this fear that plagues as can be seen in the egs i gave to "kill white ppl."

Maybe that's the way u feel and u insist on projecting that on other ppl, but plese stop saying thta that's what i'm trying to say, b/c it's not true. this is not the 1st time i've seen u do this, it's unbecoming to say the least.

also see the Pssst post so u won't have to say s/he, him/her.

>Why all the beating around the
>bush w/this nonsense about "white"
>ppl being more scared than
>other "races"?
>
>Since Kemetian didn't have the conviction
>to say what s/he really
>meant, I said it for
>her/him.
>
>"KILL THAT MOTHERFUCKER!!! KIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLL HIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMM!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> Ahhhhhhh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...."


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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HotThyng76
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:39 AM

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77. "Hey...."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

Gettin' a lil heated?

Chill, player. It's all love.

And I'm the last one to get behind the idea of killing Whitey.

_______________________

  

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Solarus
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:54 AM

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81. "I guess it ain't just me"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

Akwaaba

Who noticed your ish...

do better...

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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HotThyng76
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Wed Oct-10-01 11:23 AM

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90. "Tell that to Kemetian."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          


_______________________

  

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peace3
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Thu Oct-11-01 07:48 AM

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196. "4 real Hotthyng"
In response to Reply # 77


          

You be typin Kill Whitey to be sarcastic, but I just think yo don't know how to formulate arguements. Like Solarus said Do better.

And I always thought YOU were a female Hotthyng.

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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HotThyng76
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Thu Oct-11-01 10:38 AM

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217. "lol"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          


_______________________

  

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HotThyng76
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:50 AM

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80. "and about killing Whitey"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

U're right, I have posted that sort of thing before and in those times, like now, it was in response to threads that do nothing but villify "white" ppl. Anytime you see me post that, it's b/c that's what I interpreted as the underlying message in the thread on which that response appears. I mean, y'all hate Whitey so much, what else would you do w/Him if you had the chance? You'd kill him, wouldn't you? Why not? If He's so evil seemingly by nature, what else is there to do w/Him but kill him? You got another solution? Put Him in internment camps?

Whitey is evil and scared and all that. Now what?

_______________________

  

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Soul Brotha
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:59 AM

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84. "RE: and about killing Whitey"
In response to Reply # 80


          


Did you even read the initial post or did seeing the words 'white' and 'people' together in a post title throw you into a rage?

  

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HotThyng76
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89. "Naw, I read it."
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

And honestly, that's all I saw.

_______________________

  

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leaf
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Wed Oct-10-01 01:38 PM

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110. "Honestly,"
In response to Reply # 84


          

While interesting ?s have been raised (mostly by replies), the language, generalisations and incorrections in the original post make it seem as irrational to some posters as another KILL WHITEY!! reply does to you and others.
There may be legitimacy in the subject, but "nature documentaries=white fear"? Where the fuck do you expect to go with that???
Peace
-B


}-------the longest sig yet--------{

It's _____ oclock, do you know where your LEAF is?!!??
Somewhere the fuck lost in New Zealand!!!

"I look at him and its like, who would fuck you?"-Kids in the Hall

Due to an increase in Boredom, the username leaf will be subcontracting his duties occasionally to 'ThaCanadianNomad'.
It remains to be seen how much extra cyber ass this will get him.

Can I dig it?...
YES YOU CAN!!
Can I DIG it?...
YES YOU CAN!
Well I'm gone...

www.OHHLA.com

  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 11:35 AM

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93. "RE: and about killing Whitey"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

Yimhotep

c HotThyng ppl read your post "what kemetian really mean folks is kill all white ppl" when nothing could be further from the truth. i'm not talking about hating ppl either. dude if u hit me upside the head and i say "HotThyng hit me upside the head", does that mean i hate u?

if i say "white ppl have caused terror all over the earth", does that mean i hate them? does that = "kill whitey"

i mean if u can tell me that the civilization was not built on fear, if the egs i gave do not speak to something deeper then we can have a discussion. i've just seen ppl call me racist and leave it there.

your "kill whitey" stuff obscures the issue and prevents ppl from truly seeing what is being said.

now what u ask?
if u r to truly liberate yourselves do not be fearful of any ppl, do not be fearful of their bombs, of their beatings, lynchings, or whatever other acts of terror ppl might threaten u w/. do not act out of fear. ppl will use your fear against u, this is what is happening to white ppl now. al qaeda understands that white ppl have this fear of death, so they use it against them.

as far as what would u do if u had the chance? i understand that there is evil and good in the world, if there's no bad there can be no good, there can be no darkness w/o light, this is the Divine Law.

u apparently think that all white ppl are evil and u apparently think that the only thing to do w/ ppl who r evil is to kill them, examine that issue w/in yourself HotThyng, do not project it on me.

>U're right, I have posted that
>sort of thing before and
>in those times, like now,
>it was in response to
>threads that do nothing but
>villify "white" ppl. Anytime
>you see me post that,
>it's b/c that's what I
>interpreted as the underlying message
>in the thread on which
>that response appears. I
>mean, y'all hate Whitey so
>much, what else would you
>do w/Him if you had
>the chance? You'd kill
>him, wouldn't you? Why
>not? If He's so
>evil seemingly by nature, what
>else is there to do
>w/Him but kill him?
>You got another solution?
>Put Him in internment camps?
>
>
>Whitey is evil and scared and
>all that. Now what?
>


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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HotThyng76
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51232 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 12:10 PM

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98. "Oh, that was cute."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

i've just seen ppl
>call me racist and leave
>it there.

Then perhaps next time you'll "do better" at expressing what you really mean. Or maybe you'll take into account that the nature of the issue you have raised will invite responses like mine and the others.

>your "kill whitey" stuff obscures the
>issue and prevents ppl from
>truly seeing what is being
>said.

No, you're being unclear from the beginning obscured an already cloudy issue.

>u apparently think that all white
>ppl are evil

Card up.

Nope, I don't think that at all, but your post gave me the impression you feel that way.

We've made a mutual mistake, haven't we?

and u
>apparently think that the only
>thing to do w/ ppl
>who r evil is to
>kill them, examine that issue
>w/in yourself HotThyng, do not
>project it on me.

Takes one to know one.

_______________________

  

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NoShelter
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8725 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 01:52 PM

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113. "Yeah real cute"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

How funny it is to hear the person with "thank god i'm not a cracker" in their signature say that they don't hate white people. "Some dude says thatnk god i'm not not a nigger" and you don't think he doesn't despise black people or is a racists. EVerytime you post you place some well position slam on the people of the white race. I'm personally tired of your 'i ain't a racist bullshit' Fuck what the defintion says you ahve made it abundantly clear in your posts that you think all the world's ills are becuase of white people when they clearly are not. So yeah this topic as in most of your other topics are racist.
----------------------------------------
Conformity is not my forte

When Superman or Batman talked to villains, they would threaten them with clever puns and transitions like "Drop the hand grenade, Luthor. The only thing you'll be tossing is salads... in JAIL!"

He Looks hurt pretty bad.......... Let's Get out of Here!
-Lenny & Carl

  

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NonCompos
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88 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 02:04 PM

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115. "RE: Yeah real cute"
In response to Reply # 113


          

Hey I'm white and I'm sure as shit glad I'm not a "cracker..."

not trying to get in your face, but I think it's best to try and contextualize where each individual might be coming from, especially in light of the topics discussed here....

I think the "cracker" reference is more a persona-reference than anything else... it's just that some people really fill-out these roles.... (I mean damn, watch MTV for a minute) and while ideally we shouldn't use them, people can't help but write and speak contextually, so they are used....

  

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kemetian
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Wed Oct-10-01 02:13 PM

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118. "uhhh....ok"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

Yimhotep
>How funny it is to hear
>the person with "thank god
>i'm not a cracker" in
>their signature say that they
>don't hate white people.

r u talking to me?


"Some
>dude says thatnk god i'm
>not not a nigger" and
>you don't think he doesn't
>despise black people or is
>a racists. EVerytime you post
>you place some well position
>slam on the people of
>the white race.

every time i post? that goes for:
Bks for OKActivist Kiddies?
Courtship vs. Dating?
Anyone here use UML?
Applications of S/W agents to B2B E-Commerce?
Online Black Music Stores?
Scarves for Solidarity?
Pssst
Hotmail Notice - Is this 4 Real?

and responses to:
Cornel West?
OKActivist readalong?
To all conspiracy theorists... ?
OkayFast Falll 2001?
i want to be an activist?
DAVEY D FIRED FROM KMEL?
New Cyberactivist Project?
Interview with Solarus?
boondocks censored?
Where is Ralph Nader?
YURUGU ?
Oct. 22 Coalition on BET?
your first protest!!!!!?
Afrikan(s)?
A WORD TO THE OVERLY CONCIOUS!?
I'm here in Babylon (DC Player...?
Moses was an Egyptian?
Georgia Bans the Electric Chair?
Activist Board:?
Barbara Lee Strongest women i..?
Source Magazine Gets Ripped ?
From the Lesson Board, woo hoo..?
Learning to Say "I Don't Know"?
okp activist readalong, pt. 2?
Peace petition ?
put me back in the matrix?
New Black Supra-Secret Organiz...?
aiight my major is ?
G4 Powerbook . . . Is it $Wort... ?
I'm an IS major/coldfusion ?
i am in windows ME hell, sugge... ?
how do you use pow statements?
Visual C++ vs. Visual Basic ?
Nimda Virus On the Loose ?
.SIT files?
ibook vs. the world?


I'm personally
>tired of your 'i ain't
>a racist bullsh!t'

take some Ginseng for more stamina.

Fuck what
>the defintion says you ahve
>made it abundantly clear in
>your posts that you think
>all the world's ills are
>becuase of white people when
>they clearly are not. So
>yeah this topic as in
>most of your other topics
>are racist.

wow!


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 03:50 AM

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167. "Pitiful"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

Akwaaba

When has kemetian ever had "thank god I'm not a cracker" in her signature?

When have her posts ever HAD ANTYHING TO DO with "white ppl?"

Seriously

DO BETTER!!!

This white guilt shit is PITIFUL!

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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Qsoul
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98 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 06:10 PM

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136. "RE: and about killing Whitey"
In response to Reply # 93


          

kemetian you have completely strayed from your original post
Obviously(unfortunately) a white man in a business suit is going to be less fearful of a cop in an ally than a young black teenager?

This is not the same as saying white people are scared of aliens and ghosts

Nethier of these statements could in any way possibly represent an entire race- especially the vague and culturally diverse-white race

  

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Zarathuckya
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2360 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 11:51 AM

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224. "RE: and about killing Whitey"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

In the olden-days there was a okayplayer called Koalalove, he was a smart okayplayer, and this is what he said:


------------------
KoalaLove:
May-16-00, 11:24 AM (EST)

All Whites are Racist

This is reprinted from Dove's "Im not a Racist but..." Thread from GD- its actually a very good (but damn is it long) discussion... peep it here if youd like

http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/general2/6515.html

For the record Dove and I are good friends.
------------------

I know that got your attention but it wasnt just meant to shock its actually true.

White culture is founded in race and not much else and as such to comply to such a classification you either have to accept the premises of racial theory (as set
forth initially by Darwin and other racists), be oblivious to those racial implications, or perpetually be confused as to how Whiteness can extend beyond racial
culture without having any roots in actual ethnicity. Whites are either racists or they dont know they are racists.

The point is- "White" people say things like this- cuz they quite simply dont know any better. They are tricked by media and propoganda that would lead them
to believe that racism is a societal extreme instead of the societal norm that it is. The system provides the propoganda as an escape route to keep people locked
in fabricated racial roles- cuz it emboldens the "White" hold on majority in the democratic system. Its all bullshit though.

Your mother in law's statements were not racist- although extremely prejudiced. Jew is not a race it is an ethinicty and a religious belief. See thats how we get
confused. We label any extremist attitude as racist and that clouds the actuality of what is racist philosophy and how it underlies most major policy in the
American system. White people
are not ready for that- but it wont be too long before they have to get free themselves.

Whites are either racists or they dont know they are racists. Now before any of you "White" people hit that reply/quote button how bout you take a minute and
consider the fact you're not "White" at all.


K

------------------------------------









ThuŠ ŠP@k€ ŽåRåTHû©kYâ

  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 02:43 PM

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230. "RE: and about killing Whitey"
In response to Reply # 224


  

          

Yimhotep
This is great! thank you.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Zarathuckya
Charter member
2360 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 04:30 PM

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237. "RE: and about killing Whitey"
In response to Reply # 230


  

          

the rest of the knowledge he dropped is in the archives under "White Lies". He makes some interesting points, check it out.

ThuŠŠP@k€ŽåRåTHû©kYâ

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 03:51 AM

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21. "A Dying Consciousness"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Okay. Take away "white" and "culture" for one second. What is this great power that has influence on so many people, making one side good/worthy and the other bad/unworthy? What is it? What would people call it?

I call it collective consciousness/awareness and I define this as a larger consciousness or "macroconsciousness" that has the same values and fears and guilts (nationalism, patriotism, captalism, etc.). If we look at the leaders, the folks in major positions of influence on the planet we can see how the form of power they have created (based on fear) is no longer effective. Black folks are not in these positions. Women are not, either. Who are these people and how did this come to be?

People fail to understand this and cling to "a dying consciousness that has existed within the collective consciousness of each of our nations"...some call it Western civilization. People choose to represent a larger system that is disintegrating, so their own system is disintegrating...their governments are corrupt and they are walking on a shifting pattern of fear. They exhibit paranoia (negative energy) and attract others that have a "paranoaic desire to destroy life, as if the destruction of life will save our planet, but it will not."

"The difference between a great soul that aligns itself with openness and growth and interdependence, that transcends its fear on behalf of itself and its collective, and one that does not is that the soul that chooses openness has a different active level of courage and insight and wisdom, and the one that does not has consistently weakened under the impact of the fear of the collective." -from "Seat of the Soul"

Here, I am not talking about white or culture but often these words are representative of the collective consciousness that is in chaos and losing power, slowly by the day. There are people who fear change, who fear anything that goes against the status quo and these people react with hate and anger, causing lots of suffering. People have to take on the task of change and transcend fear (reject the system), act out of courage...even if it means going against everything they have been conditioned to be/become.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Federisco
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5002 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 05:05 AM

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32. "A Growing Consciousness n/m"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

^

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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cued
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1748 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 09:04 AM

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51. "RE: A Dying Consciousness"
In response to Reply # 21


          

Hmmm...

I hear you Nettrice.

However, I think you are tip-toeing around what we know that "dying consciousness" to be. In other words, it seems as through you are universalizing it, keeping it general and specific without naming, specifically, what that is because you and I both know that they (those who are screaming bloody murder because of this post) would call you down the same way.

You are right. I feel you. I hear you. But I fear (heh) that you are giving into a sentiment -- that this "dying consciousness" is something we all share in, equally. That it is who we all are -- and this isn't true and we know it.

Not saying "white" "culture" "European" "Euro-American" only strives to keep people ignorant and blind as well as feed their own mystification of all things white. Now, the way this post has been interpreted disgusts and disappoints me (Especially "KILL WHITEY" -- since that was not the direction, only to look at the manifestations of the dominant culture's fear), but I think it points to something more important that needs to be done, you know what I am saying?

People are calling kemetian a racist and directing others towards you because you were kinder and gentler although you were saying the same thing with different words and moving outward. "Dying consciousness" seems to be switch-code for fear. And the people... switch-code for white. Same message, but your rhetoric was more on par with what people needed to hear...

(No, I am not attacking, I have too much respect for you than that... I think I am inquiring as my face is all moved into question)

Do you feel me at all?

I am going to stop before I unintentionally start something and don't get to do my grant-writing "homework".

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 09:43 AM

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58. "RE: A Dying Consciousness"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

I wouldn't say tip-toe. Most people are going to avoid responding to my post, anyway and stick to screaming "racism" and even they know this post is not about race. I am trying to help folks understand that it's deeper than race. For most, Western civilization is the way of their lives but it's not the only way. I was referring to the paranoia and fear that underlies the civilization.

When I was 16, I had a mentor that told me a war was going on. We discussed the gradual shift in "power" and this knowledge helped me decide what path to choose. I was no longer fearful. I became media literate and more open, compassionate and thoughtful. It took many years and several degrees of awakening to admit that I was just as conditioned as the next person. It took a lot of courage for me to reject the illusion that is Western civilization.

>You are right. I feel you.
>I hear you. But I
>fear (heh) that you are
>giving into a sentiment --
>that this "dying consciousness" is
>something we all share in,
>equally. That it is who
>we all are -- and
>this isn't true and we
>know it.

Fear keeps so many others from knowing it and choosing to do something about it.

>People are calling kemetian a racist
>and directing others towards you
>because you were kinder and
>gentler although you were saying
>the same thing with different
>words and moving outward. "Dying
>consciousness" seems to be switch-code
>for fear. And the people...
>switch-code for white. Same message,
>but your rhetoric was more
>on par with what people
>needed to hear...

Dying consciousness=white supremacy/power=fear.

The fear I am talking about leads to anger and contempt but, most important, it leads to destruction and suffering and there are few people on this planet that have the kind of influence to cause destruction and suffering. Anyone (white, Black, etc.) can anger and hate but in order to do something about it, in order to have the attention of the masses they have to control the media, the financial and educational institutions, and so on. This is what I am writing about.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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peace3
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31620 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 07:02 AM

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184. "RE: A Dying Consciousness"
In response to Reply # 58


          

>Dying consciousness=white supremacy/power=fear.
>
>The fear I am talking about
>leads to anger and contempt
>but, most important, it leads
>to destruction and suffering and
>there are few people on
>this planet that have the
>kind of influence to cause
>destruction and suffering. Anyone
>(white, Black, etc.) can anger
>and hate but in order
>to do something about it,
>in order to have the
>attention of the masses they
>have to control the media,
>the financial and educational institutions,
>and so on. This
>is what I am writing
>about.


You're talking about Self-Hatred right? Fear & Self Hate are In all races in Western Civilization. The sickness of Western Civilization teaches you to hate self and to doubt self. Which means to hate and doubt the divine and love that created you and I. Which installs fear into your consciousness. Self-Hatred equals America. Sometimes I tell people that I hear or see self-hatred in their words or actions. Next thing you know they're up in arms talkin about they love themselves, and I'm sure they do. But I don't think they over-stand what I'm talking about.

Hotep
peace3

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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Nettrice
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61747 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 08:50 AM

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204. "Sure"
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

Embracing a energy dynamic intent on domination leads to self-destruction. There's no way to justify fear, except acknowledge it and transcend it. There are some folks who try to justify it and some can't acknowledge it. At this point, self-hate enters in. The only way to deal with fear is to have the courage to reject it or seek truth and love, authentic purpose and intent.

For example, when I was a little girl my attention was on everything around me that said _________ image is ideal (thin, blonde, fair skin, etc.) I came to believe it and lost sight of the connection to self & my purpose. I had low self-esteem and wanted to hide from the world. Eventually, I thought of suicide (of course this wasn't the only reason).

I used to watch TV for at least 8 hours a day, esp. soap operas. I was like the girl in Toni Morrison's "The Bluest Eye". I became afraid of the world, of myself. After intervention, I stopped watching the soap operas and started working on improving my self esteem. When I was 13, I learned that I had been worthy and beautiful all along. I began to reject my conditioning, thus, no more self-hatred...and no more fear.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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LexM
Charter member
28342 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 09:44 AM

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59. "very well said"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          


~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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HotThyng76
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:09 AM

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67. "Gary Zukav???"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Are you serious?

Oh my.

_______________________

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 10:14 AM

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68. "RE: Gary Zukav???"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

Sure! I am dead serious. The last thing I needed to hear when I was in the "enlightenment" stage was somebody coming at me with race or culture. When I was struggling with the meanings of these words (race, ethnicity, gender, etc.) I wasn't trying to hear anything else. Then I stopped seeing a certain way and I became more aware of the energy around me and the influence of certain ways of thinking (not just Western, either). I like some of the things Zukav has to say about fear and power. Thus, I included it in this discussion.

Carry on!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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HotThyng76
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:17 AM

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70. "I used to work for Oprah."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

I can't take Gary Z seriously at all. He's a creepy guy.

_______________________

  

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Nettrice
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74. "Never met him..."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

...or read any of his other work but the stuff I included here applies to the discussion. "Seat of the Soul" seems to have inspired some people...in a positive way. Plus, I found similar things in "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz and "The Path to Love" by Deepak Chopra (sp). Go figure. I take everything with a grain of salt until it applies to something I value.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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HotThyng76
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:40 AM

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78. "3 more Oprah authors."
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

U just named 3 authors I encountered through Oprah.

I don't know why that's so funny to me.

_______________________

  

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kemetian
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Wed Oct-10-01 05:56 AM

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34. "FEAR"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yimhotep

i heard the entire email read on the G. Gordon Liddy tis morning, unfortunately i haven't been able to find a full transcript for u. here are some snippets as taken from:
newzlinx.cjb.net/


Retired Army Gen. Barry McCaffrey, who was drug czar during President Clinton's second term, said in an online exchange last month that those against the United States in its war on terrorism would "be killed suddenly, in significant numbers and without warning."

McCaffrey, who commanded the 24th Mechanized Infantry Division in the Persian Gulf War, offered his blunt assessment on the mission and the strategy confronting the United States and its allies in an e-mail exchange with a cadet at West Point, where McCaffrey teaches.

The exchange took place September 19 -- a little more than a week after the deadliest terror attacks on U.S. soil. McCaffrey and others have since distributed the e-mail widely to friends and associates in the national security community.

McCaffrey told CNN he is not displeased the exchange became public, because he is eager to articulate the likely multi-faceted course of action.

McCaffrey identified multiple objectives -- to increase domestic security, build a strong coalition and finally "take the gloves off and use integrated military power to find, fix and destroy" terrorist organizations.

He told the cadet, "We are going to disrupt these people through preemptive attack ... we will deceive them, we will run psyops on them, at selected points and times they will be killed suddenly, in significant numbers, and without warning."

"Tomahawk missiles, 2000 pound laser guided weapons dropped from B2's or F22's at very high altitude, remote control, booby traps, blackmail and at places, small groups of soldiers or SEALs will appear in total darkness, blow down the doors and kill them at close range with automatic weapons and hand grenades," the e-mail message read.

McCaffrey went on to say: "We will find their money and freeze it. We will arrest their front agents. We will operate against their recruiting and transportation functions. We will locate their training areas and surveil or mine them. We will isolate them from their families. "We will try to dominate their communication function and alternately listen, jam or spoof it. We will make their couriers disappear. If we can find out how they eat, or play or receive rewards, or where they sleep -- we will go there and kill them by surprise."

McCaffrey said the military component would be "a supporting but lesser aspect of a strategy that will be based fundamentally on diplomatic and economic leverage to compel cooperation with international law."

The retired general said there would need to be substantial and costly efforts to reduce the "environmental factors" that feed "extremist madness."

That would include "dramatically increased" international aid to address the poverty of Palestinians, Afghans, Sudanese and others, he said.

A U.S. military official who was shown McCaffrey's comments said they were the "insights of a very smart guy."

Another official said they do not contain any national secrets, but they do accurately reflect the strategy the United States has adopted.

In the words of this official: "It's the plan."

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Sunday
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Wed Oct-10-01 06:00 AM

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35. "hollywood and fear..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

profound post.

i'm beginnin to fear these boards are nothin but BULLSHIT.

  

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kemetian
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Wed Oct-10-01 06:08 AM

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36. "RE: White Ppl & Fear"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yimhotep
i'll b back w/ a further explanation of what the point of the post was etc.
but really quickly when i talk about white ppl i'm not talking about individual ppl, i'm not saying frederisco and g_love and the other white okps r, i'm talking about a collective consciousness that has birthed a civilization. inside of this consciousness is a _fear_ of just about everything. i will talk more about this later, u should know me better than to take what i have written at face value, clearly i am trying to get us to examine what this means for us, black white purple etc, particularly those who have been oppressed.
so everyone just take a breath ok, long on the exhale...
and
i'm not racist, i lack the power.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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bboy218

Wed Oct-10-01 07:28 AM

  
43. "RE: White Ppl & Fear"
In response to Reply # 36


          

if youre not talking about white ppl as a collective, why did you put white ppl in a collective, saying white ppl like you used it to me and to most seems like putting us all in a category. Really, it did make sense, but to say white ppl collectivly like that is kinda ignorant, you must have alot of times on your hands, b/c the way you were speaking it seems as if you have gone around this country-better yet-world and have met every white person, and got to know them all. Either that or you are going off what you have seen in the media(see how brainwashing works both ways!! keep us fighting and generalizing so we dont unite and realize who the real enemy is) No I did not miss your point, just whats up with the generalization, and try to understand my anger, b/c you would be pissed if someone put a post up saying black ppl yadda yadda yadda... esp. if none of the generalizations were true, much like the ones you made. I know to me and every other white folk I know, it does not apply. Please watch your generalizations, they make you look foolish.

  

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Ape Redwood
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Thu Oct-11-01 02:43 PM

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231. "RE: White Ppl & Fear"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          


>but really quickly when i talk
>about white ppl i'm not
>talking about individual ppl, i'm
>not saying frederisco and g_love
>and the other white okps
>r, i'm talking about a
>collective consciousness that has birthed
>a civilization.

Don't let us off the hook that easily. That's the problem: a lot of liberal whites think their that "special white person" (c) Upski. You know, as in "I have a black girlfriend, I have all black friends so Im not racist like all other white people." This allows us to avoid rooting out the detrimental effects of Western culture within ourselves.

---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

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bboy218

Thu Oct-11-01 03:17 PM

  
234. "you caught me"
In response to Reply # 231


          

yup Im that special white guy. Were you talking to me with the whole upski thing? or am I just mistaken. If I am, sorry.









Anyone can flip shit kid, I stick the
landing-J-tredds

Hey dad, heard ya cursing. Can I join
in? Crap, hell, crap!!-Bart simpson

  

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Ape Redwood
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Thu Oct-11-01 03:33 PM

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235. "wasnt talking about you specifically"
In response to Reply # 234


  

          

But it might apply to you. I used to be that special white guy. Now I know that Im just like the rest of them, only more self-aware and doing something with that awareness.

>


Galaxy raaaaaays...
POWERFUL!


---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

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bboy218

Thu Oct-11-01 03:44 PM

  
236. "RE: wasnt talking about you specifically"
In response to Reply # 235


          

Oh just thought Id check, I guess it very well could from others stand points, Ive just never used those kinda arguments before. But I know the kinda people your talking about, ran into them before. Had a teacher that thought she was all super-duper special white liberal lady who did everything right. Just b/c she did some stuff in the 60's. I wonder what she'd say if I'd asked her what shes done recently to break barriers.

Anyone can flip shit kid, I stick the
landing-J-tredds

Hey dad, heard ya cursing. Can I join
in? Crap, hell, crap!!-Bart simpson

  

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kemetian
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Thu Oct-11-01 06:52 PM

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239. "RE: White Ppl & Fear"
In response to Reply # 231


  

          

Yimhotep

>
>>but really quickly when i talk
>>about white ppl i'm not
>>talking about individual ppl, i'm
>>not saying frederisco and g_love
>>and the other white okps
>>r, i'm talking about a
>>collective consciousness that has birthed
>>a civilization.
>
>Don't let us off the hook
>that easily. That's the problem:
>a lot of liberal whites
>think their that "special white
>person" (c) Upski. "

Wow, i just realised how that read, like i was saying "not u OKPs but all the other white ppl" and that's certainly not what i meant. thank u for that Ape. i am not looking @ individuals i am looking at the collective (altho individuals make up the collective), so ppl can say all day that they r spanish or german or irish or american the fact is there's underlying unity in the thought of european ppl. there is a shared consciousness of whites and i posit that one of the fundamental parts of this consciousness is fear. i also posit that the "western civilization" was built and is maintained by this fear. and i also sugest the end of its dominance will be this fear.

You know,
>as in "I have a
>black girlfriend, I have all
>black friends so Im not
>racist like all other white
>people.

one of the police officers who shoved the plunger so far up Abner Louima's anus that it damaged his spleen had a black girlfriend, so we know that means nothing.

This allows us to
>avoid rooting out the detrimental
>effects of Western culture within
>ourselves.
how do u plan on doing this and what hapens after this?

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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TonyAnsah
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118 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 06:29 AM

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38. "RE: White Ppl & Fear"
In response to Reply # 0


          

These are ignorant opinions and racist comments that doesn't reflect or represent who and what white people are. Everybody is fearful of something reguardless of the skin color or religion. It is ridiculous to judge an entire breed of people as being monolithic or homogeneous. I hope one day that people, such as yourself, become color blind so that we all can be a united human race.

  

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eric_l21
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Wed Oct-10-01 07:23 AM

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41. "RE: White Ppl & Fear"
In response to Reply # 38


          

Well put.

  

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peace3
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Thu Oct-11-01 09:31 AM

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209. "You had a dream too?"
In response to Reply # 38


          

lol

We're all united already. Still we don't know.

Kill the hands across America shit.

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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urbgriot
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Wed Oct-10-01 07:26 AM

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42. "Hilarious"
In response to Reply # 0


          

but mostly true...

https://twitter.com/onnextlevel

  

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JahSeed
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Wed Oct-10-01 07:35 AM

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44. "Have You Ever..."
In response to Reply # 42


          

1) seen a museum exhibit of “classic” European body armor? The shit is heavy as hell and you really have to wonder why a person would wear it in battle (fear of death...finding no honor in death)
2) wondered why the (white) scientific community is so obsessed with cloning and other “weird science”? (fear of death...in search of a non-existent physical immortality)
3) wondered why the U.S. (NASA) and other European gov’ts are trying to colonize Mars? (fear of death...they realize their rape of the planet combined with natural phenomena gives the Earth an unknown expiration date)
4) thought about the fact that gun powder had been around for more than 500 years in China and East Asia before Europeans traded and learned to use it as a weapon of destruction-- cannons, high-charged explosives, and guns? (fear of death...the need to minimize any chance of being killed or greaten the chances of conquering)
5) noticed how the 3 (white) major world religions all extol a “healthy” fear in the Universal Creator?
6) thought about the (white) minds that could produce things that could kill hundreds, thousands, or even millions of people at once such as tanks, nuclear bombs, and stealth bombers?

Just some questions to ponder...



"I'm livin' life within a labyrinth of nonsense..."
--Black Thought

"What does a white man call a black man with a PhD?
A nigger."
--Malcolm X

  

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Cre8
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Wed Oct-10-01 07:59 AM

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45. "RE: Have You Ever..."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

Sad but true.

Somebody was saying that this whole terrorist thing is like a soap opera and that seems true. This big ass country, full of power to rule other countries (esp. small Afghanistan) is full of FEAR not to mention bs with all that flag waving when just 5yrs ago young white americans did the same thing.

Post #34 from Keme- shows that either America (government/prodomenately white) is insane or either scared as hell, but considering Afghanistan doesn't have anything to loose but the lives of the sick,uneducated,poor, depressive masses (let the media tell it), then I guess rich, welleducated, healthy (blur AIDS,CANCER) America should be scared.

Also did bush say something about expelling Arabians?(maybe I misheard something)

Food/Drink PlayersCookbook Info:
To help: L9 Health Clinic http://www.commongroundrelief.org/node/242
DEADLINE: November 22, 2006
Please submit your recipes to playerscookbook@yahoo.com or inbox and don't forget PHOTOS.

*********************************

  

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jazzboy00
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Wed Oct-10-01 08:08 AM

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46. "RE: Have You Ever..."
In response to Reply # 45


          

Lets be honest, the first part of what kemetian posted is pure undiluted, all natural, new and improved bullshit!!!the fears she listed can be found in all cultures including our own (African culture). She has a great point about white amercian paranoia but her intital list of fears obscures those good points. Lets be real, if some white dude posted a list of shit that scared black folks we'd rip his balls off!!(think about it, why did our egyptian forefathers build the pyramids?? fear of death just like everybody else!!!A majority of voodoo and african animist religions is devoted to a defence against evil spirits. FEAR) there alot of things in this current state of fear can be traced to a long history of white american cultural paranoia (damn that was long!) but you can't turned around and stereotype them the same way many of them do us.

  

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JahSeed
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Wed Oct-10-01 08:21 AM

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47. "RE: Have You Ever..."
In response to Reply # 46


          

I feel you, jazz. I don't think that kemetian explained herself clearly enough, but my questions are based on history and current events. Whereas all humans have fear in them, the fears of the world's "ruling powers" (you tell me who they are if they aren't white) have managed to contribute to the death and destruction of billions. To counter your example, the Yoruba fear/caution of Legba never contributed to the creation of weapons of mass destruction or world oppression. If you disagree, that's peace, but I definitely recognize a fear that is both self-destructive and destructive to others in caucasians...


"I'm livin' life within a labyrinth of nonsense..."
--Black Thought

"What does a white man call a black man with a PhD?
A nigger."
--Malcolm X

  

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jazzboy00
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Wed Oct-10-01 08:31 AM

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49. "RE: Have You Ever..."
In response to Reply # 47


          

hey man i agree on that yoruba poit 100%. All i'm sayin is dont'walk around saying only white people are scared of ghosts!
i think the fear that keme was referring to was the fear caused by ignorance (you'll find frightened and outraged people in small cities and towns buying gas masks and giving evil eyes to all A-rabs in residence) and/or the fear of guilt caused by realizing that this country has done a whole lot of dirt and its payday.

  

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Cre8
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Wed Oct-10-01 08:29 AM

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48. "RE: Have You Ever..."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

I guess we all looking at this from different angles.
When I read or hear white ppl and America, I automatically think of rich white folks with wealth and power mainly those in the government. This is not to say that there are no rich, wealthy folks of other races in the government or in the US, but most of them have and still are bending over to receive more riches from our prodomenately white government.

Everybodies scared of something and some of the fears that Keme spoke of about white folks is true. Just last week a white kid in my class was saying that he was scared to shoot pictures in black neighborhoods, well not really 'black' neighborhoods but on the 'south and west side of Chicago' which are prodomenately all black, yet little black kids that go into Bridgeport (prodomenately white) get beat into commas by grown ass men. That type of mentality has gone on for centuries so evidently the fear is embedded in their culture somewhere.

Food/Drink PlayersCookbook Info:
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Please submit your recipes to playerscookbook@yahoo.com or inbox and don't forget PHOTOS.

*********************************

  

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Federisco
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156. "I understand most of you critizizers(sp)"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

But let me be abit utamaroho-ian for a sec!!

You apply your western knowledge and way of looking at the world, to ancient cultures and religions that does not originate from the western world!

And that alone makes me sceptical to what you say. Western culture IS different from other cultures.. down from the roots (the fundations) and all the way up to the very leaf of the tree called western culture!

(and.. Asian, african, ancient american, culture is also different from western in a similar way)

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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kemetian
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Thu Oct-11-01 06:47 AM

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180. "Doth mine eyes..."
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

Yimhotep

...deceive me?

is that a light @ the end of the tunnel? Does someone understand that a lot of the *ahem* generalizations ppl r making about "everybody has the same fears, desires" "everybody fears death, growing old" "everybody has the need to control" are just descriptions of members of one culture (or stick whatever word in u think kemetian should have used)? that this fear is not necessarily a part of everyone's culture? that indeed many ppl are defining "everyone" by the only culture they know - white?
if this is the only that is got out of all of this the Canadians gving each other high fives (y'all, just in y'all own world - it's all good) won't be the only happy campers.

>But let me be abit utamaroho-ian
>for a sec!!
>
>You apply your western knowledge and
>way of looking at the
>world, to ancient cultures and
>religions that does not originate
>from the western world!
>
>And that alone makes me sceptical
>to what you say. Western
>culture IS different from other
>cultures.. down from the roots
>(the fundations) and all the
>way up to the very
>leaf of the tree called
>western culture!
>
>(and.. Asian, african, ancient american, culture
>is also different from western
>in a similar way)


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Federisco
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Sun Oct-14-01 12:23 PM

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274. "hmhhehe"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

you and me gotta give utamaroho a high five for that one

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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peace3
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Thu Oct-11-01 09:22 AM

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208. "RE: Have You Ever..."
In response to Reply # 46


          

>Lets be honest, the first part
think about it, why
>did our egyptian forefathers build
>the pyramids?? fear of death
>just like everybody else!!!


No they did not build the Pyramids in fear of death. Don't project your fears onto others. Not everybody fears death. Just ask those Hijackers that flew the planes into the WTC. Not Death is not to be feared. It's a transition into pure consciousness. Any ways Open your eyes. SO many of you take everything at face value. THere's so much more in life to feel.

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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Sunday
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Wed Oct-10-01 09:47 AM

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60. "pondering your questions..."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

"1) seen a museum exhibit of “classic” European body armor? The shit is heavy as hell and you really have to wonder why a person would wear it in battle (fear of death...finding no honor in death)
2) wondered why the (white) scientific community is so obsessed with cloning and other “weird science”? (fear of death...in search of a non-existent physical immortality)
3) wondered why the U.S. (NASA) and other European gov’ts are trying to colonize Mars? (fear of death...they realize their rape of the planet combined with natural phenomena gives the Earth an unknown expiration date)
4) thought about the fact that gun powder had been around for more than 500 years in China and East Asia before Europeans traded and learned to use it as a weapon of destruction-- cannons, high-charged explosives, and guns? (fear of death...the need to minimize any chance of being killed or greaten the chances of conquering)
5) noticed how the 3 (white) major world religions all extol a “healthy” fear in the Universal Creator?
6) thought about the (white) minds that could produce things that could kill hundreds, thousands, or even millions of people at once such as tanks, nuclear bombs, and stealth bombers?
Just some questions to ponder..."

do you really think all this shit has to do with a fear of death?

really, think about that. your list is real good but it doesn't spell a fear of death to me, it clearly spells PROFIT and no other. fear of death has nothing to do with conquering the world. but money does.


  

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Nettrice
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Wed Oct-10-01 09:51 AM

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62. "RE: pondering your questions..."
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

Fear of death/fear of void is the same thing in the minds of the folks with major influence or who control the masses. Void of money/wealth/control (external power) what would these folks have? Therefore, to have nothing or to have no power is death, albeit an illusion.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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40thStreetBlack
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Wed Oct-10-01 04:30 PM

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129. "RE: Have You Ever..."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

>1) seen a museum exhibit of
>“classic” European body armor?
>The shit is heavy as
>hell and you really have
>to wonder why a person
>would wear it in battle
>(fear of death...finding no honor
>in death)

And have you ever heard of how the ancient Celts used to go into battle buck naked, covered only in blue paint,
to show their enemies that they had no fear of them or of death? Besides, Samurais wore body armor (not all heavy
and unwieldly like mideival Knights, but still), and you know those mofos weren't afraid of death.

>2) wondered why the (white) scientific
>community is so obsessed with
>cloning and other “weird science”?
>(fear of death...in search of
>a non-existent physical immortality)

First of all, only a handful of kooks are out there trying to achieve physical immortality through cloning. The
reputable "white" scientific community you're talking about is doing research on cloning and other "weird science"
type ish so they can use that knowledge to cure diseases, repair damaged organs, etc. It's not so much about a fear
of death as it is about improving the quality of life. Not everything scientists do is related to some diabolical scheme
(but I suppose you ascribe to the whole Dr. Yacub / mad-scientist-created-the-white-devil thing, and think that this is
somehow related). Besides, the Japanese are also heavily into cloning research and other "weird science", and you know
they ain't afraid of death (see response to #1)

>3) wondered why the U.S. (NASA)
>and other European gov’ts are
>trying to colonize Mars? (fear
>of death...they realize their rape
>of the planet combined with
>natural phenomena gives the Earth
>an unknown expiration date)

The reason is to boldly go where no man has gone before!... Seriously though, there are both practical and more ethereal
reasons to colonize Mars and space in general. In practical terms, the Earth will one day become uninhabitable regardless
of what damage we have done or will do to the planet. Unless the human race want to go the way of the dinosaurs and become
extinct, we have to colonize space, and Mars is the first step towards that end. It's not about fear of death, it's about
survival of the species. As for the ethereal reasons, consider the following words about the exploration of space:

"The urge to explore, the quest of the part for the whole, has been the primary force in evolution since the first water
creatures began to reconnoiter the land... Living systems cannot remain static; they evolve or decline. They explore or
expire. The inner experience of this imperative is curiosity and awe. The sense of wonder- the need to find our place in
the whole- is not only the genesis of personal growth but the very mechanism of evolution, driving us to become more than
we are." - Wyn Wachhorst

You've got it all wrong. It's not about fear at all. It's about conquering fear and reaching out into the great unknown,
and growing and improving in the process. If you don't get that, then I don't know how to explain it any better. I'd just
have to say that you lack vision and imagination and move on.

>4) thought about the fact that
>gun powder had been around
>for more than 500 years
>in China and East Asia
>before Europeans traded and learned
>to use it as a
>weapon of destruction-- cannons, high-charged
>explosives, and guns? (fear
>of death...the need to minimize
>any chance of being killed
>or greaten the chances of
>conquering)

That isn't a fear of death, it's a smart military strategy.

>5) noticed how the 3 (white)
>major world religions all extol
>a “healthy” fear in the
>Universal Creator?

I don't know about Islam being a "white" religion, but as for the other two, yeah, I'll give you that one.

>6) thought about the (white) minds
>that could produce things that
>could kill hundreds, thousands, or
>even millions of people at
>once such as tanks, nuclear
>bombs, and stealth bombers?

OK, white minds created weapons of mass destruction. And that translates into fear how...?


40th Street Black knocks 'em out...
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"I thought I was hip until George and Weezie showed me that I was a just a square white peg in a round black world"
- Marcy D'Arcy

"Yeah man, I tell ya what, man. That dang ol' Internet, man. You just go on there and point and click. Talk about W-W-dot-W-com.
An' lotsa nekkid chicks on there, man. Click. Click. Click. Click. Click. It's real easy, man." - Boomhauer



<----- Long Live The King

  

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daveyg
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Wed Oct-10-01 09:06 AM

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52. "personally"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i'm not offended by your post, because it doesn't apply to me.
those things aren't true of me.
so that means one of two things....you're either way off base with your wide generalizations...or my theory of skandinavian males being the best whites of all, has finally been proven true.
peace
w/love
dave

ps. i don't think i'm the greatest in the land. that was just a joke. my grandaddy though, he was in ripley's believe it or not for walkin like 75 miles with a 100 lb bag of wheat over his shoulder. i'm not afraid of death by the way, i think the fear of death is something possessed by someone who doesn't have a real belief in any sort of religion, but again, that's my opinion.

here's the "official okayoungins list" if you wanna be on just hit me up(aim davegilbertson/email:the button w/ the lines on it) or contact dj_teddy_bear(dj_teddy_bear@hotmail.com), he's warm and cudly...the OKAYoungins are...

dj_teddy_bear...daveyg...zero...DROots...albinomexican...illness...okaymattd...
HomerILLiad404...okaybrazillian...Essaywhaman...GoldenWon...Preach...
HersheyBit...brown_thought...naame...akweykan...Lyterall...MoJoTaters...
Loryn...Imfntubby...ILLusional...tRoUbLeMnD...smiler...TotalRequestloveLive...
WhiGoStaR...itsmeaight...erjs408...drFunkenstein...vuduchild...tygris...
Afroteck...fLee...Scout...sugarflyy...Adrenaline...RipRapRoad...SayWhatMan...Divine Sheba...
IlladOLphINS...ICE...Mr_Sarcastic_tha_Antagonist...6thSenses...Okayplayer619...Yunique...okaykelc...
Zeno...wolfie...

i like this store, it's pretty rad >>
http://www.digitalgravel.com i've been shoppin there for over a year now, you won't be disappointed.





in remembrance of simmon

OKAYoungins - Givin You True Youth Since (11/12)2000

dj_teddy_bear - daveyg - zero - DROots - albinomexican - illnes - okaymattd - HomerILLiad404 - OkayBrazilian - Essaywhuman - HersheyBit - Preach - brown_thought - naame - akw

  

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kemetian
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:32 AM

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75. ":)"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

Yimhotep

...or my
>theory of skandinavian males being
>the best whites of all,
>has finally been proven true.
>
>peace
>w/love
>dave

Whatever works 4 u man, whatever works for u.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Nettrice
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61747 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 09:23 AM

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55. "Read the whole thread before you respond"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'd love to see mor folks discuss the whole collective consciousness issue, rather than have knee-jerk reactions and respond with "this post is racist". It goes deeper than that but for some folks it's not that deep, anymore. It's not about race.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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cued
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Wed Oct-10-01 09:49 AM

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61. "RE: Read the whole thread before you respond"
In response to Reply # 55


          

Race... that illusionary reality.

Race has become synonymous with culture.

To say "white" signifies race
when it is meant to signify culture.

I think we have been through this before.
And I can't figure out a satisfactory way to
"marry" the two either.

I think it goes back to language being co-opted
and decontextualized in such a way that we can't
even think of things outside of a dichotomous matrix.
I dunno, but when I was in the 2nd grade, I was taught to
read things within the context in which it was written.
Reading things within the context in which it was written,
this post has nothing to do with race
and everything to do with culture
and, in a sense, to do with cultural imperalism
and to do with this war
and if we were to take this seriously and look at it
we would begin to understand what bin Laden meant when he
called America scared -- because, trust me, our faces are
not what he thinks of when he thinks of America
we would begin to understand what the Afghani senior official was talking about in my post "Statues and what we know about Afghanistan"
We would understand what media is doing and why
because I find so much of it... obvious and repugnant
because they are playing on all sorts of things which are
ripe within the Euro-American culture.
Clearly delineated "bad guys" -- they have started a smear
campaign against Afghani culture without giving us any history about it... For example, I didn't know they have been fighting for about 25 years. I didn't know about all the double-dealing and backhand wheelings of our government... to stop Russia... and that whole THING was funded by fear... America fears any system that is unlike it... and declares that system enemy. It needs everything to be "known" and seated within its hierarchy. If not, fear. That is not race related, it is bigger than that. It _IS_ a consciousness, yet, it isn't an universal consciousness. Is it a dying consciousness? I'm not sure. My gut tells me that it isn't because it is self-perpetuating...

If fear is a guiding force behind that culture's motives (and this is only if one has demystified Euro-American/European/white culture for his/her/trans- self), then what are the guiding actions of this force? Control? Dominance? Assimulation? We have to learn to look at things _as they are_ not as they _seem_.

In the end, I cannot believe that one poster talked about a color-blind society.

To me, that means a society where I have been indoctrinated and absorbed.

That ain't cool.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 10:15 AM

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69. "Like this idea is really so DEEP."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

Of course America is scared. Ever play King of the Hill? The person on top of the hill is constantly fending off challenges from the folks beneath. That's the nature of the game. Even if there were no one fighting to take him/her off the top, he/she'd still need to be on watch if he/she wanted to maintain his/her position. Diligence, readiness, awareness, caution, etc...all are needed to stay on top of that hill.

Duh.

And say what you want, this thread is about race from top to bottom. If Kemetian wanted it to be about something else, s/he should have been more careful w/her/his word choice. "White" = race, not culture. The way I see it, there is no "white" culture, but there's a "white" race.

_______________________

  

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Nettrice
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:18 AM

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71. "RE: Like this idea is really so DEEP."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

I think there is such as thing as "white" culture. It's called supremacy and all the institutions created to maintain it, from entertainment to education to government. Who controls these things or better yet what system controls these things?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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HotThyng76
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51232 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 10:44 AM

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79. ""white" culture = supremacy?"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          


_______________________

  

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AZ
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12930 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 11:01 AM

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86. "RE: Like this idea is really so DEEP."
In response to Reply # 71


          

>I think there is such as
>thing as "white" culture.
>It's called supremacy and all
>the institutions created to maintain
>it, from entertainment to education
>to government. Who controls
>these things or better yet
>what system controls these things?


It depends on the context. In what place are you asking about? At what time are you asking about?




____________________________________________

"we Jews control the US" - Ariel Sharon

"Oh You who believe ! Stand out firmly for Justice, as witnesses to God, even against yourself, against your children and against your parents. Against people who are rich or poor. Because God is the best of all Protectors. Do not follow your inclinations or desires lest you should deviate from justice. Verily God is well acquainted with all that you do."

Holy Quran, Chapter 4: Verse 135

  

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bboy218

Wed Oct-10-01 08:42 PM

  
149. "RE: Like this idea is really so DEEP."
In response to Reply # 71


          

>I think there is such as
>thing as "white" culture.
>It's called supremacy and all
>the institutions created to maintain
>it, from entertainment to education
>to government. Who controls
>these things or better yet
>what system controls these things?
>
>
B/c as we all know every white person stands for this supremecy.
Maybe you need to say what this white culture is on a more in-depth basis. Are you talking about the white culture that was uplifted so much by the founders of amerikkka? The culture that merely applied to the rich, land owners, whose fam's were from mainly eng.? If I were a poor man in the 1840's named Brian O'Johnson, do you think Id be a part of this culture? No, but it wouldnt even be a race thing for me...damn I bounce around to much, just try to make sense of what Im saying.



  

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Federisco
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Thu Oct-11-01 03:17 AM

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159. "europe"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

>B/c as we all know every
>white person stands for this
>supremecy.

"White person" and "white supremacy", whatever it is, comes from a european culture who expanded to america and became the family called The West. no?

I wrote a long ass post, but decided not to post it and instead saved it for later on. But this is a good time to post it, i'll post it as a reply to the original post! But to tell u the essence of it.....

I think (or i want to think, so i hope) that the european culture, which lead to the american culture and the west, is very much created by/based on the elite culture of europe, which is based on differentiating yourself from the working population (elitism!). What was feeded to the working population was this culture and the things it values the most (supremacy(?), greed, power, fear of death , not respecting "what you throw out comes back to you"..).

I know of other, not elitist!, cultures from european countries. But the elitist culture, because of its nature (and the stupidness of the population!..?), easily became the largest. And expanded. (And has reached its limits!?)

tell me if my gross assumptions are too gross

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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cued
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Thu Oct-11-01 07:01 AM

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183. "Elite"
In response to Reply # 159


          

Yes, I call this internalized racial superiority.

However, it is an illusion -- it isn't true.

So the question is, what is this illusion of superiority or elitism hiding? What is it masking?

Peace,

Q



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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Sunday
Charter member
1781 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 07:07 AM

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187. "RE: Elite"
In response to Reply # 183


  

          

isn't it just money?

  

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cued
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Thu Oct-11-01 07:33 AM

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193. "Money?"
In response to Reply # 187


          

*lol*

Nope, not that either. Money is something else that is an illusion and yet real. What is money? Pieces of paper and/or metal that has been attributed value. A cow would be better. It's value is inherent with what it is.

Money is nothing. Nothing but an illusion.

But pretty good.

Come on, I'm sure someone can get at it.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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Sunday
Charter member
1781 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 07:57 AM

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197. "i give up"
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

so money is an illusion (i agree.. i hate that shit) and race is an illusion (i hate that shit too) and power is an illusion and the idea of an elite is an illusion? all this hiding something that is real right? or did i not follow that properly?

feel like i'm solving a riddle... cept of course i aint solved shit. so come on, tell!! or at least give some more clues

sunny

  

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cued
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Thu Oct-11-01 10:00 AM

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213. "RE: i give up"
In response to Reply # 197


          

:-)

Emotions are real.
Fear is real.
And if you think about it, all of those things ARE connected... since they are all illusions YET horribly real.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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jazzboy00
Charter member
159 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 09:57 AM

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63. "RE: Read the whole thread before you respond"
In response to Reply # 55


          

the post was about race!! (i mean the damn title was WHITE ppl & fear) anyway i feel that at this point the collective fear is being used (manipulated) to set the stage for something deeper. it seems to me that the longer we are fighting this so called "war" the longer we are supposed to be in fear. this fear gives room and justification to all types outrageous actions and sentiments that would not come into being otherwise. I mean, folks are wiggin out. the longer this goes on the more entrenched this fear is, and people start feeling certain things are necessary. Think about it, alot of the so-called security measures that people want would not have prevented this from happening, these cats had all the i.d. they needed and studied the security system for years. anyway isn't kind of ironic that on Columbus day we were trying to kill one terrorist while celebrating another.

  

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Nettrice
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Wed Oct-10-01 09:57 AM

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64. "I just wish"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

People would think beyond the fear...not to say that people shouldn't fear anything. The goal should be to transcend fear and have the courage to change/reject whatever is causing the fear, especially the conditioning. We are not dogs. We are supposed to have higher developed minds. Individuals make a choice to align themselves with the collective and, in doing so, condone destruction and oppression, or they can have courage and live life with openness, compassion, integrity and wisdom.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Soul Brotha
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:36 AM

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76. "RE: I just wish"
In response to Reply # 64


          

>People would think beyond the fear...not to say that people shouldn't fear anything. The goal should be to transcend fear and have the courage to change/reject whatever is causing the fear, especially the conditioning.<

This is the point I try to make to my friends who are now paralyzed by fear - they will not fly, they tell me to find a job outside of DC, they tell me to stock my cupboards with food "just in case..."

Fear is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. What frightens one into inaction is bound to happen sooner or later.

  

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justice7

Wed Oct-10-01 11:01 AM

  
85. "RE: I just wish"
In response to Reply # 76


          

I was talking with my queen and expressed opinions similar to Kems. on the general atmosphere of fear pervading the media and many white Americans (sorry for the generalization). Maybe growing up poor, and a black male in one of the worst areas of Philadelphia has desensitized me to all this shit going on. It's like due to the circumstances I was born into and still live in I stare death in the face DAILY!! By now, me and that Mofucka are good friends. I saw that cruises to the Caribbean were as low as $89 for 4days and 3nights causes of all the stuff going on. I told my queen and we were both like "Bet!!!" I'd much rather die having the time of my life than going to slave away building some corporate kingdom. I guess the point is that Fear and the fear of death in particular are outgrowths of your experience and the amount of spiritual growth you gain from them. If you face death daily and see death often you realize it's all a part of a cycle like birth and life and you don't fear it you embrace it. But, "Western Man" has always had problems embracing his connectedness to all life and the Universal Cycle we are all apart of.

  

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DuoMaxwell
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Wed Oct-10-01 10:56 AM

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82. "I'm Co-Signing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Everyone is calling the initial post racist but when I read it I was in agreement 100%. You can knock it if you want but what she said was true.

I've always wondered why many white people that I've come across are so fearful of me. What reason does a white person have to be afraid of us? This isn't rhetorical, someone please answer this. If anything we should be afraid of whites. I can't think of one historical incident where black people have done anything to instill fear in whites so where does it come from? It ain't the media because that fear was there way before that. I walk into a restaraunt and I can see people getting shook. Why is that?



  

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Federisco
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164. "huff"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

sad ish
In a restaurant, I would think they associate a black face with a poor face, a violent face or even an anti-white face. I'd think it is a result of years with conditioning (just look at the american media in the past and now)

But dont confuse angry looks (my brother calls those looks "glooming") with suprised and even curious looks, specially when you travel outside USA!

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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iamme
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Thu Oct-11-01 04:01 AM

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169. "RE: I'm Co-Signing"
In response to Reply # 82


          

In my experience I have seen two types of racism. There is the most common kind that is based upon propoganda and misconceptions, but there is another kind. My brother-in-law has had some dealings in his past that he has let affect him. Due to how he generalized from these events, he has a low view of any black person. However, he has realized that has happened and is trying to reverse it, especially since he has seeds of his own. He knows his hate is wrong but he still feels it but he tries very hard so that his seeds won't grow up to know things as he does. That's not excusing how he feels, just explaining how he feels.


-"The hard headed always got to feel it to believe it" -Mos Def

You learn more from playin stupid than actin stupid
-a life lesson

______________________________
Ignorance is Slavery

Knowledge is Futile.

Is being enlightened an end or a means?

  

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kemetian
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Wed Oct-10-01 11:09 AM

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87. "4 The Record"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yimhotep

everybody is not the same. white ppl and black ppl r not the same. there is white collectve consciousness and black collective consciousness. we both act based our respective heritages.

Understand this, and i know y ppl would have such a knee-jerk reaction and call me racist, just b/c ppl r different, doesn't mean that one is superior to the other. it just means they r different.

there is a difference in the way we think and the way we view the world. can i at least get an agreement on that? do ppl agree that the way white ppl c the world (as a collective) and the way non-white ppl c the world is different? if u don't know anything about other cultures i don't suppose u can comment on it. but u know, there is plenty written on it, and i don't mean by just "racists" like myself, good old-fashioned scientists, they've done studies and stuff, really.

for ppl who r used to the "white" way of ingesting information my post makes no sense. "if kemetian meant white consciousness why didn't she say that?" b/c kemetian IN ERROR assumed that ppl would be able to c the unity in the egs, and draw up from them the bigger picture. but white ppl (as a collective) do not ingest that way. (see, Afro-American Cognitive Style, B.J. Shade, and Cognitive Styles and Multicultural Populations, James Anderson)

from the latter: "...The variant systems (of cognition between blacks and whites) are simply extensions of each group's respective African and European heritage). Each culture has evolved around some world view w/in a philosophical system and it is this view that permeates the basic threads of cultural development."

perhaps kemetian should have started with the abstract idea, then given egs.

the egs that i gave speak to something larger.

every culture does not avoid old age.
and one thing we shoud be clear of by now, every culture does not fear death as a part of the culture.

pyramids being built b/c of fear of death? WTH?!!!!

every culture does not encourage a fear/distrust of others.

there are ppl who instead of waging war against nature live in harmony w/ it.

and since this fear is what was used to build up the civilization, does it not make sense that this fear will undo it? kind of like the idea that what is a poison can be used as a vaccine (only reversed)

is this what ppl have a problem w/ the undoing of the dominance white consciousness?

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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yuckwheat
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Wed Oct-10-01 11:21 AM

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88. "RE: 4 The Record"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

advice: your "argument" would be a lot better, if you gave specific examples...........

instead of vague generalizations



  

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yuckwheat
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Wed Oct-10-01 11:25 AM

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91. "and also"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

your why dont the "white" arabs/asiatic muslims "fear" death............

?

  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 11:46 AM

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95. "RE: and also"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

Yimhotep
>your why dont the "white" arabs/asiatic
>muslims "fear" death............
>
>?

i believe they truly _believe_ that they are to fear no one but Allah.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Solarus
Charter member
3604 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 03:55 AM

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168. "No they fear kafirs"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

Akwaaba

because they are a "threat."

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 07:27 PM

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241. "RE: No they fear kafirs"
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

Yimhotep

>Akwaaba
>
>because they are a "threat."

now _that's_ something to ponder... a "threat" to their way of life. is this fear unfounded? is it a part of the culture?



Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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HotThyng76
Charter member
51232 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 11:28 AM

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92. "Hello."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

Kemetian needs to understand, she's not just preaching to the Anti-Everythinger choir here. There are other folks reading these posts.

It's not good to lay out an argument assuming those who'll read it will agree w/you or will approach it from some assumed perspective. Especially not on the goddamned internet.

Gee-bus!

_______________________

  

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kemetian
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Wed Oct-10-01 11:45 AM

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94. "RE: Hello."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

>Kemetian needs to understand, she's not
>just preaching to the Anti-Everythinger
>choir here. There are
>other folks reading these posts.
>
>
>It's not good to lay out
>an argument assuming those who'll
>read it will agree w/you
>or will approach it from
>some assumed perspective. Especially
>not on the goddamned internet.
>
>
>Gee-bus!

the assumption was that ppl would be able to c the larger picture, not that they'd necessarily agree. and i already said that was done in error. and i'm glad frankly that all of us r able to have this exchage b/c ppl don't want to deal w/ this idea of collective consciousness & that we r not all the same. ppl woud rather just call me racist and fly away. how many ppl r sticking around to discuss?

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Sunday
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1781 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 11:51 AM

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96. "okay discussin"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

i agree with you on the collective conciousness thing... but where do you draw those lines?

i mean, would you say there is a collective african conciousness? and i'm talkin bout the continent of africa. if there is a collective american conciousness then who is included in it? the lines of division are real blurry and that's why i think this is a hard thing to talk about. people don't wanna sound stupid.

and a lil off topic but to add: what's so bad about being scared to die? personally, if i found out i had only a lil left time to live i wouldn't be happy about that. i'd be scared and upset as shit. i love my life. i know i'll die but i'm in no rush thank you. do i think this cuz i'm white? i'm asking seriously... and please, no hollywood answers or examples please, that shit is downright insulting.

sundae

  

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kemetian
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Wed Oct-10-01 02:00 PM

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114. "RE: okay discussin"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

>i agree with you on the
>collective conciousness thing... but where
>do you draw those lines?
>
>
>i mean, would you say there
>is a collective african conciousness?

yes

>and i'm talkin bout the
>continent of africa.

i do not separate africans thruout the diaspora from africans on the continent. collectively african ppl on/off the continent have a consciousness, just like europeans on/off their land do.
>if there
>is a collective american conciousness
>then who is included in
>it?

i don't know that there is a collective american consciousness unless u r referring to Native Americans and a collective (Native) American consciousness, european americans have european consciousness, african americans have an african consciousness and so on.

>the lines of division
>are real blurry and that's
>why i think this is
>a hard thing to talk
>about. people don't wanna sound
>stupid.
>
>and a lil off topic but
>to add: what's so bad
>about being scared to die?

i didn't say it was bad, i said it exists, in white consciousness, this fear of death. b/c it exists, white ppl display it in a myriad of ways.

>personally, if i found out
>i had only a lil
>left time to live i
>wouldn't be happy about that.
>i'd be scared and upset
>as shit.

why? b/c in your culture it is believed that this is all there is, that u do not continue after this "life." in cultures where, "death" is just a transition to another life there is not the fear of death on such a large scale. all of the hoops that ppl jump thru, to prolong life, even in fighting for "justice" whites must do it in such a way as not to jeopardize their own "life." i.e. dropping bombs from afar, avoiding hand-to-hand combat...

>i love my
>life.

this is a good thing.

i know i'll die
>but i'm in no rush
>thank you. do i think
>this cuz i'm white?

i think that has a lot to do w/ your heritage and for anyone who has been brought up and ingested the "white" way as a way of life, where the standards set forth by whites is the standard to go by, this will be the case.

>i'm
>asking seriously... and please, no
>hollywood answers or examples please,

what r hollywood answers? u mean the egs i gave about movies etc.? art imitates life. they're an excellent way to gain insight on the mindset of a ppl. NOTE: the way ppl r portrayed is an accurate telling (for want of a better word) of how the ppl making the movies ee them. eg. i know u don't like them but... black ppl complain about the characters they play in shows as not having depth, u see them hardly ever, their chars aren't as developed as others, it's b/c that's the way whites c blacks, as incidental, not "he's the guy w/ the family and the life", he's just a guy @ work, so that's the way they r portrayed on TV. u get me?

i mean i guess i could've used books like Moby Dick as well (for my man vs. nature point), the egs i gave are a few of very many, if u stop to think about it. better yet, look @ the history of white ppl, look @ white ppl as part of a continuum and u will c what i mean, about this fear. another author to look at (who incidentally is white) is Andrew Hacker. he describes white consciousness, matter-of-factly. i think he angers a lot of blacks b/c he is unapologetic of the viewpoint, that aside, wonderful insights can be gained, by just examining one's ppl.

>that sh*t is downright insulting.

u'll be ok.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Maize1

Wed Oct-10-01 07:00 PM

  
138. "RE: okay discussin"
In response to Reply # 114


          

just a couple of things:

define white people for me, i know none and would like to meet one some day

"there is white collectve consciousness and black collective consciousness" -- hahaha ... so u really think African Americans and Africans share the same collective consciousness, yeah ... right. the influence of region, experience and time exerts itself on once connected cultures and creates new ones. similar yes, the same, hell no

"why? b/c in your culture it is believed that this is all there is, that u do not continue after this "life." -- what about heaven??? im not sure if i missed some other material bout this. if so, let me know

"good old-fashioned scientists, they've done studies and stuff, really." -- they sure have, culturally biased studies of course



  

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Federisco
Charter member
5002 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 03:37 AM

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166. "european and african"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

I think she means culture, not race
culture, religion, way of living, opinions... that! not race

(I'm sure okayplayers know about (and many complain about) african americans who become too western, and try to live up to the western ideals. Those still have african heritage, but they follow the european/western culture.

Or the other way.. a bad example from the top of my head: hippies living in India)

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 06:56 AM

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182. "Read"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

Yimhotep

clearly u do not understand what i mean by a collective consciousness. there are more i'm sure that u can take a peek @.

http://www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4353&forum=DCForumID1&omm=0

http://www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4553&forum=DCForumID1&archive=yes

i hope all of the ppl here will stick around after this blows over so we can have some meaningful exchange. alot what is being talked about has been discussed here b4, it seems like maybe some of this unfamiliar, which would explain Maize1's post for e.g.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Sunday
Charter member
1781 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 06:49 AM

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181. "sorry it took so long..."
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

to respond... don't even know if you'll find this in the mess that has become this thread but i'll respond anyway.

you say you think there is a collective african conciousness right? as a result of colonialism and neo-colonialism, you may have a good point, but before that shit went down, i'm not sure i could argue that there was a collective african conciousness. e.g. khoi san and yoruba peoples were pretty different... tribally, the whole continent of africa had its own unique cultural things goin on all over the place.

"i do not separate africans thruout the diaspora from africans on the continent. collectively african ppl on/off the continent have a consciousness, just like europeans on/off their land do."

i don't think so. i think there is a world of difference between african ppls of the diaspora and those of the continent. but to put it in personal perspective (cuz i'm not african the things i say may come across as assumptions and therefore not really valid arguments... but i do speak from my experience, culturally, educationally, and observationally) as a person of european background raised in canada, i have to say, i don't feel any connection to the collective conciousness of europe. and i base this on the experience of actually having gone there and shit. i don't feel like i belong to the collective conciousness of canada for that matter. but i recognize that mass thing or whatever... more here between canadians and americans, then in europe between different kinds of europeans. maybe you wouldnt know, but there is a fucking world of difference between the serbs and the brits for example.

"i don't know that there is a collective american consciousness unless u r referring to Native Americans and a collective (Native) American consciousness, european americans have european consciousness, african americans have an african consciousness and so on."

native americans? no man. those ppl were raped to all hell. but no i'm not talkin about their conciousness. i'm talking present day. are these just your personal fellings or is this something you've learned through your education, a combination of the two or what? its too funky for me how differently we see these things.

on the death thing: most euros are christian. christianity teaches its followers that they will go to heaven. you do continue after death. so i really don't know where you get this:

"in your culture it is believed that this is all there is, that u do not continue after this "life." in cultures where, "death" is just a transition to another life there is not the fear of death on such a large scale."

are you referring particularly to the ancient egyptians? i notice you'r into that.

"all of the hoops that ppl jump thru, to prolong life, even in fighting for "justice" whites must do it in such a way as not to jeopardize their own "life." i.e. dropping bombs from afar, avoiding hand-to-hand combat..."

alright, white ppl really suck, on the whole and throughout history. there is no way i'm disagreeing with that. i don't know about this fear of death, avoiding hand-to-hand combat business but i do know that everything europeans have done to the rest of the world had to do with money. its shit. but its fuckin true. they were competing with another (big players for example, britain, portugal, spain) for who will conquer the most shit and therefore be the wealthiest and most powerful. its a fucking shameful history, but i don't think it had to do with fear of death. i don't mean to insult you, i just don't really see the intelligence in that argument.

"i know i'll die
>but i'm in no rush
>thank you. do i think
>this cuz i'm white?

i think that has a lot to do w/ your heritage and for anyone who has been brought up and ingested the "white" way as a way of life, where the standards set forth by whites is the standard to go by, this will be the case."

death aside, do you actually think that african americans have not ingested the "white way of life and white values"? in america today, who upholds the christian religion the most? i think black people. the nuclear family, capitalism? black ppl are into all that shit too. the fucking american dream? we're all pawns in the same rich man's game, my friend, black or white. makes no difference to em.

"what r hollywood answers? u mean the egs i gave about movies etc.? art imitates life."

hollywood is not art. just that you would say that proves how conditioned you are by the dominant/mass society.

"eg. i know u don't like them but... black ppl complain about the characters they play in shows as not having depth, u see them hardly ever, their chars aren't as developed as others, it's b/c that's the way whites c blacks, as incidental, not "he's the guy w/ the family and the life", he's just a guy @ work, so that's the way they r portrayed on TV. u get me?"

yeah, i get you. and more importantly i agree with you. which is precisely why i'm sayin hollywood ain't art. its a playground for the rich... and most of em aren't even good-lookin much less talented. t.v.? same shit. it ain't art. its garbage.

"u'll be ok."

you'll be okay too

sunny




  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 07:40 AM

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194. "RE: sorry it took so long..."
In response to Reply # 181


          

I'm not sure where to start.

But I will say this, Sunday, and I say this with as little stress as possible. White people, people of European descent, have a culture that is made in such as a way as to perpetuate itself and be blind to it. One of the manifestations of this blindness is this whole ideology of "individualism". Because, more than likely, you see yourself as an "individual" you will be unable to see and understand, culturally, the group conciousness amongst both Canadians and Europeans and even yourself. But really, it is as easy as watching television, going to a movie, reading a book, hanging out with your friends, or talking to your parents or other people. It is there... you just don't see it. And that's ok, because you weren't meant to see it.

But still...
it's there.

Peace,

Q


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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Sunday
Charter member
1781 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 08:04 AM

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198. "individualism.."
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

now thats some shit i know about. and yeah, it is a struggle. struggle in the sense that we wanna be individuals but at the same time, anyone who knows anything about it will be torn cuz that word has some real dirty conotations. so we wanna belong to a whole but its hard, cuz usually when we speak of the whole/mass conciousness that includes shit like bein whipped into shopping at the gap, upholding all the bullshit this society is built upon and so on... and i don't wanna do that either. its fuckin hard.

but i know what you're sayin bout the simple things, goin to the movies, hangin out with your friends, drinkin a beer at the bar... etc. HEGEMONY right?

damn. think i might have to move to a cave in the northern territories and become a hermit.

sundae

  

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cued
Charter member
1748 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 10:10 AM

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214. "RE: individualism.."
In response to Reply # 198


          

Too late! You are still part of a culture which is bent on destruction (it's own and others and the world's) so if you were to move to a cave in the northern territories, without cleansing yourself, you would enact that same cultural learning onto that environment.

The thing is, in my opinion, that I think white culture/consciousness would be less geared towards fear if it had the balance of consciousnesses of color. It needs BALANCE!

Check out my sig: I am because we are; we are because I am. This is an African proverb, but locked within it is the key. There is no me without we (where I am both separate and a part); there is no we if I cannot realize that I am me. The two are locked together in some serious beauty. It _is_ human to want to belong to something greater than the self. However, white culture/consciousness has this silly idea that everyone can be him/her/itself -- which is wrong and a lie and keeps white people who are struggling to be conscious of their culture and to seek the balance of cultures/consciousness of color asleep. In order for white people to be _effective_ they have to understand what their culture is. However, they are in a culture which does not want its participants to realize that it has a culture. And so what does all of this mean? It means that listening to what people of color have to say about white culture/consciousness becomes paramount since we are always looking at it, living in it, yet apart from it since we are others -- especially those like myself and others who have no wish to be a part of it.

We can help you see the illusion of individuality because there is no such thing. White people have a culture, a consciousness. And that consciousness is not just free-wheeling, it is based on something.

And if you think of all the many illusions it has spun off... it seems, to me, and others, I bet, that it seems to be hiding a need to feel secure, NOT afraid. Which means that the illusions are simply hiding the fear inherent to the culture/consciousness.

Do you feel me?

Peace,

Q



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*********^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"americans are gross!" -utamaroho

Uplifting thoughts:

"We are the end result of our ancestors prayers as they died. We you are the sum total of their answered prayers."

"I am because we are; we are because I am."

"falling in love with somebody's soul...their essence their personality their walk their talk the way they speak and smile...no matter what the physical outer body is..male or female...is a temptation i hope i am never foolish enough to resist." - Hot Damali



____________


"When the revolution comes, "faggots" won't be so funny." - The Last Poets

** Most people mis-read this line. I don't think he is being homophobic. I think he's making sure you folks know, within our communities, those of you who laugh at

  

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Sunday
Charter member
1781 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 10:46 AM

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220. "i feel you"
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

and i agree, totally.

"listening to what people of color have to say about white culture/consciousness becomes paramount since we are always looking at it, living in it, yet apart from it since we are others -- especially those like myself and others who have no wish to be a part of it."

i have no wish to be part of it either...

sunny

  

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kemetian
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Thu Oct-11-01 07:16 PM

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240. "RE: i feel you"
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

Yimhotep
do u still want me to respond @ length? i think looking @ what we call white consciousness would be key.

about "death": whites "believe" in heaven and hell but that's it. u live, u die, go to your respective places. u don't take part in the events on earth after u make the transition. u do not guide those here, u are separate and apart from those unborn, those who went b4. and u don't come back. if this were a part of my consciousnes i would be scared to die too, this is it, i only have "one life to live"!

u asked if i'm referring specifically to Kemet b/c u c i'm "into" that. it's into me. i was referring specifically to Africa. all over Africa (u can talk about nations *not tribes* and there will be differences, but there _is_ an African consciousness) this idea persists. Africans in America pour libation (look @ R. Kelly in that video remembering those who had passed) just as our family does thousands of miles away, even tho' we (supposedly) don't know anything about them.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Sunday
Charter member
1781 posts
Fri Oct-12-01 05:32 AM

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249. "on the whole"
In response to Reply # 240


  

          

"about "death": whites "believe" in heaven and hell but that's it. u live, u die, go to your respective places. u don't take part in the events on earth after u make the transition. u do not guide those here, u are separate and apart from those unborn, those who went b4. and u don't come back. if this were a part of my consciousnes i would be scared to die too, this is it, i only have "one life to live"!"

white conciousness on the whole... yes. but not everyone. long as you recognize that.

"u asked if i'm referring specifically to Kemet b/c u c i'm "into" that. it's into me. i was referring specifically to Africa. all over Africa (u can talk about nations *not tribes* and there will be differences, but there _is_ an African consciousness) this idea persists. Africans in America pour libation (look @ R. Kelly in that video remembering those who had passed) just as our family does thousands of miles away, even tho' we (supposedly) don't know anything about them."

no one said you don't know anything about them so no need to be condescending alright? we pour libations too so that's not much of an example but i get what you're trying to say. but if black ppl (and now don't go takin this the wrong way cuz i'm not suggesting this is any kind of thing that should be done) are so disatached from the society (american) that they live, why hasn't the idea of repatriation as propagated throughout american history by ppl, such as marcus garvey the most obvious example, ever really picked up? i mean, i don't got much of a choice, europe might be different but it ain't different enough for me to want to be part of it.

but seeing as i'm just a guilty white girl making this thread go 200+ you don't have to answer, we can just as easily drop it.


  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Fri Oct-12-01 05:57 AM

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251. "RE: on the whole"
In response to Reply # 249


  

          

Yimhotep

>"about "death": whites "believe" in heaven
>and hell but that's it.
>u live, u die, go
>to your respective places. u
>don't take part in the
>events on earth after u
>make the transition. u do
>not guide those here, u
>are separate and apart from
>those unborn, those who went
>b4. and u don't come
>back. if this were a
>part of my consciousnes i
>would be scared to die
>too, this is it, i
>only have "one life to
>live"!"
>
>white conciousness on the whole... yes.
>but not everyone. long as
>you recognize that.

this was all it ever was about. the consciousness of the ppl. u all share this same consciousness (the root (or one of them) of which is, IMO, fear). of course not every individual will display the EXACT egs i gave but the egs are only to point to something larger.


>"u asked if i'm referring specifically
>to Kemet b/c u c
>i'm "into" that. it's into
>me. i was referring specifically
>to Africa. all over Africa
>(u can talk about nations
>*not tribes* and there will
>be differences, but there _is_
>an African consciousness) this idea
>persists. Africans in America pour
>libation (look @ R. Kelly
>in that video remembering those
>who had passed) just as
>our family does thousands of
>miles away, even tho' we
>(supposedly) don't know anything about
>them."
>
>no one said you don't know
>anything about them so no
>need to be condescending alright?


slow your roll, wasn't nobody being condescending. ppl have laughed @ me when i suggest that Africans thruout the diaspora have a common consciousness. when i say (supposedly) i mean we truly "know" b/c we act it out, but don't "know" in everyday sense of the word. anyway.

>we pour libations too so
>that's not much of an
>example but i get what
>you're trying to say. but
>if black ppl (and now
>don't go takin this the
>wrong way cuz i'm not
>suggesting this is any kind
>of thing that should be
>done) are so disatached from
>the society (american) that they
>live, why hasn't the idea
>of repatriation as propagated throughout
>american history by ppl, such
>as marcus garvey the most
>obvious example, ever really picked
>up?

that idea was picked up. look @ the history of Marcus Garvey's movement and how it "died" and u'll find your answer. also i mentioned somewhere in here that anyone brought up in the "white" way who is incapable of seeing that it is just that, "a" way and not _the_ way and not _their_ way will exhibit the same characteristics, HOWEVER it must be realized that this is not necessarily a part of said ppl's collective consciousness.


i mean, i don't
>got much of a choice,
>europe might be different but
>it ain't different enough for
>me to want to be
>part of it.

the best thing u could do IMO is just recognize that the consciousness exists, see what it is and if it truly disturbs u, try and change it in yourself and your progeny. i don't know if it's doable to change the consciousness on a mass level. but u will certainly have more luck than i, the mere mention of "white ppl" out of my mouth makes me racist, u however, ppl might be more willing to listen to u. and encourage white ppl, not to be fearful, if they can remove this fear from themselves, then their dealings w/ others will be a whole lot better.


>but seeing as i'm just a
>guilty white girl making this
>thread go 200+ you don't
>have to answer, we can
>just as easily drop it.
>

direct your stuff to the right person ok?

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Sunday
Charter member
1781 posts
Fri Oct-12-01 06:50 AM

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252. "RE: on the whole"
In response to Reply # 251


  

          

you know, if you had just phrased yourself from the beginning with words like "white mass conciousness" or "western mass conciousness" i think ppl would of looked at your points and been more likely to think, "this girl has some interesting things to say." i'm sure you know that tho, and have your reasons. i won't say it hasn't been a good discussion.

about garvey:

"look @ the history of Marcus Garvey's movement and how it "died" and u'll find your answer."

maybe i'm dumb, but i don't see much of an answer. didn't he go bankrupt? the black star line cuz of the recession and shit? and so losing all this money didn't he say some not so smart things to some honkkky white senators? it couldn't be just cuz of money, or could it?

"also i mentioned somewhere in here that anyone brought up in the "white" way who is incapable of seeing that it is just that, "a" way and not _the_ way and not _their_ way will exhibit the same characteristics, HOWEVER it must be realized that this is not necessarily a part of said ppl's collective consciousness."

agreed.

"the best thing u could do IMO is just recognize that the consciousness exists, see what it is and if it truly disturbs u, try and change it in yourself and your progeny. i don't know if it's doable to change the consciousness on a mass level. but u will certainly have more luck than i, the mere mention of "white ppl" out of my mouth makes me racist, u however, ppl might be more willing to listen to u. and encourage white ppl, not to be fearful, if they can remove this fear from themselves, then their dealings w/ others will be a whole lot better."

believe me i know about all the bullshit this mass white conciousness has tried to feed me and i try every single day to contribute to changing the bullshit around me. as far as you mentioning "white people", honey, you can. so you got a little blasted up in here and some ignorant fucks just wrote you off as a racist. but really, tell me when white folks up in here say bad shit about black ppl? they don't, as far as i can tell. most of the whities in here are more into black culture then they are into white cuz they see something in it that their own is severely lacking. maybe i should speak only for myself, i don't know, but that's what i see. i think me and you are probably more like-minded than not. why should we divide along our respective racial lines? i mean, what are doing here but tryin to make one another understand, overstand, so we could come together to change the system and its values? that's where i'm comin from, hope its where you're comin from too.

peace,

sundae




  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Fri Oct-12-01 06:10 PM

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265. "RE: on the whole"
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

>you know, if you had just
>phrased yourself from the beginning
>with words like "white mass
>conciousness" or "western mass conciousness"

the little part that is allotted to type your topic allows only 25 chars (i think) which is deceiving b/c the space appears much larger.

>i think ppl would of
>looked at your points and
>been more likely to think,
>"this girl has some interesting
>things to say."

no they wouldn't have. they would say "there is no such thing as a white mass consciousness." as they've said AFTER they knew what i was talking about.
Also, i don't know if u saw the Pssst post but in there i say
"I'm a woman"
not
"I'm a girl"

>i'm sure
>you know that tho, and
>have your reasons. i won't
>say it hasn't been a
>good discussion.
>
>about garvey:
>
>"look @ the history of Marcus
>Garvey's movement and how it
>"died" and u'll find your
>answer."
>
>maybe i'm dumb, but i don't
>see much of an answer.
>didn't he go bankrupt? the
>black star line cuz of
>the recession and shit? and
>so losing all this money
>didn't he say some not
>so smart things to some
>honkkky white senators? it couldn't
>be just cuz of money,
>or could it?

go 'head look @ it.
"I'm not sayin' nothin'!" (c) Fertile Ground


>"also i mentioned somewhere in here
>that anyone brought up in
>the "white" way who is
>incapable of seeing that it
>is just that, "a" way
>and not _the_ way and
>not _their_ way will exhibit
>the same characteristics, HOWEVER it
>must be realized that this
>is not necessarily a part
>of said ppl's collective consciousness."
>
>
>agreed.
>
>"the best thing u could do
>IMO is just recognize that
>the consciousness exists, see what
>it is and if it
>truly disturbs u, try and
>change it in yourself and
>your progeny. i don't know
>if it's doable to change
>the consciousness on a mass
>level. but u will certainly
>have more luck than i,
>the mere mention of "white
>ppl" out of my mouth
>makes me racist, u however,
>ppl might be more willing
>to listen to u. and
>encourage white ppl, not to
>be fearful, if they can
>remove this fear from themselves,
>then their dealings w/ others
>will be a whole lot
>better."
>
>believe me i know about all
>the bullshit this mass white
>conciousness has tried to feed
>me and i try every
>single day to contribute to
>changing the bullshit around me.
>as far as you mentioning
>"white people", honey, you can.

_please_ don't call me honey. but thanks for the permission (?)

>so you got a little
>blasted up in here and
>some ignorant f*cks just wrote
>you off as a racist.
>but really, tell me when
>white folks up in here
>say bad sh!t about black
>ppl?

see that's the prob, ppl c what i wrote and generally when blk ppl say "white ppl" as blk ppl saying bad stuff about white ppl.
so i will say to u, if HotThyng hits me upside the head and i say HotThyng you hit me upside the head, am i "saying bad stuff" about him? or am i telling the truth? it seems to me that anytime someone speaks truth about white ppl they say stuff like what u say, but it's not about saying "bad stuff" like i'm trying to be mean, i'm pointing out something that is true. but since u bring it up, what is some of the "bad stuff" that whites around here would like to say about blk pl that they aren't?


they don't, as far
>as i can tell. most
>of the whities in here
>are more into black culture
>then they are into white
>cuz they see something in
>it that their own is
>severely lacking.

that's interesting... but what does it mean in the long run, for everyone?

maybe i should
>speak only for myself, i
>don't know, but that's what
>i see. i think me
>and you are probably more
>like-minded than not. why should
>we divide along our respective
>racial lines?

the division is there, it was there b4 me it will be there after me. b/c:
we (humans)
are
not
all
the
same.
this reminds of ppl accusing others of being divisive, or splitting america across racial lines as if the split isn't there already.

>i mean, what
>are doing here but tryin
>to make one another understand,
>overstand, so we could come
>together to change the system
>and its values?

it's your system tho' not mine, if the _values_ will change that has to come from u. i feel that the values stem from the consciousness. if u can change that then more power to u, recognizing that it's there tho' is a 1st step.

>that's where
>i'm comin from, hope its
>where you're comin from too.
>
>
>peace,
>
>sundae

ok sundae.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Sunday
Charter member
1781 posts
Sat Oct-13-01 09:22 AM

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269. "i don't know why i bother"
In response to Reply # 265


  

          

MY system? cuz i created it and i perpetuate it right? sorry to be offended and sorry to break it to you but you contribute to it just as much as i do. just by living in it. like i said, i try to live my life as conciously as possible. you obviously think i'm just some dumb white girl. i can't bother wasting my time convincing you otherwise. just remember that the presumption of superiority is what this whole rotten world is built on. particularly our society. your acting like you're better and smarter than everyone doesn't make me wanna live in any kind of a world you would create.

sincerely sorry to call you girl or honey. i was thinkin we're having a friendly discussion (and that's the way i fuckin talk!) but you can't seem to drop the condescending and derogatory tone so i think i'll just shut up.


  

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queen333
Charter member
2149 posts
Wed Oct-10-01 09:01 PM

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150. "I keep readin..."
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

about the collective consciousness, the African collective, the African-American collective, White/Euro collective, etc. What about the idea of a collective consciousness that transends all cultures? U know, the notion that we are all one with each other and with God?

Personally I think that if we all wanna peacefully coexist in this world, hell, if we want this world to survive, maybe we should look at all this shite on a much grander scale. Maybe all the mayhem that went down on Sept 11 was a bitter "wake up call to humanity" so to speak, especially for the Western, Capitalist world.



Peace
C.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.

- Anais Nin

OneLoVe
C*

  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 07:04 AM

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185. "RE: I keep readin..."
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

Yimhotep
What about the
>idea of a collective consciousness
>that transends all cultures? U
>know, the notion that we
>are all one with each
>other and with God?

that notion is a part of African collective consciousness/spirituality, not the european collective consciousness. anyway i really gotta go do my h/w, ya'll done kept me away for 2 days now, bad OKPs!!! so i'll be back later, to discuss. i like the direction the post is headed in.


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Ape Redwood
Charter member
6088 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 02:52 PM

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233. "yeah, but dont get it twisted"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

American blacks as a whole have these white/Western fears ingrained in them as well. Not as much as whites, but still...

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PISS AND BLESSINGS
Alex
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"I have never felt less American and
more New Yorker...than these past
days." Suheir Hammad

Galaxy raaaaaays...
POWERFUL!


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Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

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cued
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1748 posts
Thu Oct-11-01 11:09 PM

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247. "RE: yeah, but dont get it twisted"
In response to Reply # 233


          

A whole new can o' worms.

And hey Ape

Black Americans have absorbed some of this fear and other harmful things about Euro-American culture just by living in it and being subject to it and forced to tap-dance to it day in and day out. That is why a forum such as this one is KEY for Black people who are trying to discard the film (filth) that covers their natural Black selves in order to get them ready, get them in a position to do the work we need to be doing as designed by our Ancestors. If we cannot start to uncover ourselves, we will never feel satisfied because we will not be doing what we are supposed to be doing.

I think a lot of us get this all mixed up. It causes fear because they don't recognize that there is something very important hidden underneath there. But don't think I am leaving white people out of the equation because I think there is more for them, too, once they can brea