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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 03:25 AM

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"ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"


  

          

I see myself as a gentle, loving, and generally peaceful person. I want to live right in the world and live with conviction, humility and compassion. I've never been in a position where I've had to think about killing someone else, taking their life, extinguishing their life force ...

but I believe firmly in revolution -- the power of the people to rise up against their oppressors and create a new society. Would I kill in the name of this change? Perhaps. How bout y'all? I personally believe that there are moments where armed self-defence is absolutely necessary. But when do we draw the line? How many people must die at the hands of the police/state before people take action? What are the factors that prevent this from happening? What are the factors that can propel people into armed conflict?

Again, let me state that I in no way wish for death to ANYONE. But I saw a movie about the revolution in Nicaragua the other day that outlined the daily atrocities done against the people .. and I think about El Salvador and the repression there; the death squads and dissapearances; the U.S. involvement in training the army how to effectively torture and murder people; the fear people live with ... and then on to the US; the repression here diguised in democracy; the countless people jailed and murdered by the police ... and I wonder "when is enough enough" When will we get to a point where we REFUSE to take this kind of abuse any more!

So I ask: is there a time for armed self-defence against the state? Is it futile in light of the weaponry they have? When does one know that "the time is right"?

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
police state
Apr 25th 2000
1
RE: police state
Apr 25th 2000
2
RE: police state
velodragon
Apr 25th 2000
3
      i dunno
Apr 25th 2000
13
RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
Apr 25th 2000
4
RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
Apr 25th 2000
5
RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
velodragon
Apr 25th 2000
6
      RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
Apr 25th 2000
7
           RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
velodragon
Apr 25th 2000
8
                RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
Apr 25th 2000
9
                     Think again
Apr 25th 2000
10
                          RE: Think again
Apr 25th 2000
11
                          RE: Think again
skin
Apr 30th 2000
36
                               just what I'm talking about ...
May 01st 2000
37
                          RE: Think again
velodragon
Apr 25th 2000
12
                          RE: Think again
Apr 25th 2000
14
                               RE: Think again
velodragon
Apr 25th 2000
15
                          RE how do we
monstaz
Apr 28th 2000
33
what's up el_rey?
DJChe
Apr 25th 2000
16
RE: what's up el_rey?
Apr 26th 2000
18
      i wish
DJChe
Apr 26th 2000
20
Revolution in 2G
Apr 25th 2000
17
beautiful response!
Apr 26th 2000
19
      RE: beautiful response!
Apr 26th 2000
22
           Sounds dope!
Apr 27th 2000
23
LOOKY HERE!
Apr 26th 2000
21
... uh, justice?
Apr 27th 2000
24
      RE: ... uh, justice?
Apr 27th 2000
26
           RE: ... uh, justice?
Apr 27th 2000
29
As Flo Brown said.....
Apr 27th 2000
25
You know I been waitin fo' ya!
Apr 27th 2000
27
      arm or get done
Apr 27th 2000
28
           RE: arm or get done
Apr 28th 2000
32
                School's in session ...
Apr 28th 2000
34
yo
CulTurE
Apr 27th 2000
30
guerrilla ish, n/m?
Apr 28th 2000
31
damn damn damn
Apr 28th 2000
35
RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
May 09th 2000
38
RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
May 09th 2000
39
      RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
May 10th 2000
41
RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
AfricanHerbsman
May 10th 2000
40
RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
Nov 14th 2001
47
consider this
velodragon
May 19th 2000
42
80 billion vs 20 billion. You don't need guns.
cipher8
May 19th 2000
43
cosign
Nov 14th 2001
48
well...
May 19th 2000
44
RE: well...
May 23rd 2000
46
RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!
Forlani
May 22nd 2000
45

emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 05:10 AM

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1. "police state"
In response to Reply # 0


          

if there ever comes a time when the citizens must rebel against a common enemy, i believe there will be a great loss of life as well as "organized chaos." i think that the superpower of the u.s.military is great, yet backwoods militia fighters may have the upper hand in close-quarter combat due to familiarity with the local terrain.

my dad was in the air force and i have a strong interest in military hardware and techniques. personally, i love guns. i've always had them. funny thing tho-i've never had the inclination to shoot someone. that's weird huh? anyway, i think we should have the right and that rebels would indeed have a chance against anything. just look at the palestinians in israel's occupied territories. they throw rocks and molotovs and effectively keep enemies at bay and the international press afraid of entering their areas. another example is the chechnyans....

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 06:56 AM

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2. "RE: police state"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

thanks for the thoughts.

Anyone else? Let's get this discussion going.

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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velodragon

Tue Apr-25-00 06:59 AM

  
3. "RE: police state"
In response to Reply # 1


          

>i think that the superpower
>of the u.s.military is great,
>yet backwoods militia fighters may
>have the upper hand in
>close-quarter combat due to familiarity
>with the local terrain.

This may be true, but close-quarter combat is a thing of the past for the US military. Instead of going in with infantry, in the case of a domestic war what's to stop the military from just dropping a bomb on militia HQ?? Plus, the Army has remote control tanks now along with smart bombs, etc. A grassroots militia uprising would get crushed with a swiftness.

That's why a revolution of ideas similar to Reformation in 15th (?) century Europe is necessary. It might be harder to do, but in the long run changing people's attitudes towards thier world is the best way to go. A revolution usually leads to an unstable government, which is the last thing a country this size needs. A gradual change in people's world view is the only way I see for long term positive change.

On a side note, my Dad was in the Air Force as well, and although I don't currently have any guns, I used to enjoy shooting when I was younger. Education is the key to responsible gun ownership, but that's another post altogether.

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emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 11:56 AM

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13. "i dunno"
In response to Reply # 3


          

close quarter combat is still being utilized worldwide as an effective technique. i think that if this were to happen in the u.s., then it would only occur in the initial stages of revolt or what have you. after that tho, i agree-a bomb or radio controlled weaponry is gonna be the deciding factor.

gun control-yes, another topic but very important. also, i think handgun owners may differ from rifle/shotgun owners, but i'm not sure. handguns are what, used primarily for self-defense. people shoot targets with them but it's mostly to cap a nuka!

btw, that 404 shit is aight! lol

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

  

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Hibo
Charter member
7982 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 07:09 AM

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4. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

yeah it is futile against their weaponry
civilians cannot in any way win against power that size.
other nations will not intervein(spelling)or try and help the civilians because this is america, the most powerful nation in the world.
unless people are more educated or the revolution is done in a peaceful manner, it will be impossible to win against a country like the US

  

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360sunsumyea
Charter member
653 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 07:45 AM

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5. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i think it can work if people are not all flashy (red black and green liberation jumpsuit) with what they are doing/ represent. as far as when, i don't think people will agree on that, but i do think an event will have to set it off. it will have to be a collective response to a particular situation that people just can't take no more. a blazing injustice that makes stomachs turn.

"Shake that load off and sing your song,
Liberate the minds then you go on home"
-Erykah off of 'Liberation' (Outkast)

  

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velodragon

Tue Apr-25-00 07:50 AM

  
6. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 5


          

>it will
>have to be a collective
>response to a particular situation
>that people just can't take
>no more. a blazing
>injustice that makes stomachs turn.

That's the problem, we shouldn't wait for one horrible event to happen to galvanize the American population into militant action. If the Diallo verdict didn't do it, how much worse of a blazing injustice will? I don't want to wait and find out. I'd rather try to change the attitudes of people around me in order to prevent things like that.

The (mental) Revolution will not be televised.

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 08:08 AM

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7. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


>If the Diallo verdict didn't
>do it, how much worse
>of a blazing injustice will?

That's what I'm trying to say. How much more horrible will we allow it to get than a new death at the hands of the police every week? Are we waiting for mass graves? I, personally, can't wait that long. Not one mopre of our children should have to die.


>I'd rather try to change
>the attitudes of people around
>me in order to prevent
>things like that.

But then what? Say enough people know that the police are corrupt and that them killing people in the streets is wrong (and if they haven't gotten that far ... WTF?!!!) what do we DO will all of theis consciousness in light of the continuing brutilization of the people? What does an "enlightened" public DO in response to a murderous police state?


love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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velodragon

Tue Apr-25-00 08:28 AM

  
8. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 7


          

>What does an "enlightened" public
>DO in response to a
>murderous police state?

Great question, can't say that I have a definative answer though. Some things to consider though:

Wouldn't an armed revolution play to the police state's strength?

If the majority sees the truth, then competent and honest public officials could be elected to institute change. This will not happen anytime soon at the national level, but just like someone was saying when talking about building a third party, it has to start locally to work. Institute positive change in your nieghborhood, then city, then state, and from there who knows??

How can you justify violence as a solution for violence? This isn't an attack, just something to think about.

Like I said before, it won't be accomplished quickly, and it won't be easy, but I think for the long term it's the best.

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Mr_B
Charter member
199 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 08:59 AM

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9. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>If the majority sees the truth,
>then competent and honest public
>officials could be elected to
>institute change.

This is the key. But getting the majority to see "the truth" is the catch. Americans in general are so apathetic that getting through to them, regardless how righteous your cause, is going to be a major challenge. Even those who want to find out the real story are bombarded with media noise to the point that eventually they'll give up and join the apathetic majority.

So you've got your small band of revolutionaries who managed to stay focused and form similar opinions based on the facts that few others know or care to know. If you think armed revolution is seriously an option, think again. Because while you're reasoning with people and turning them to your cause through debate and argument, the government is simply taking the confused ones who join the armed forces and brainwashing them by force in great numbers.

The U.S. government will never drop bombs on its own soil. There's just too much of a risk of a drastic change in the way the people view their government if they do that. But they certainly have the resources to send military forces wherever they need them in no time.

So the change does have to come about using the "system". That way, hopefully someone from your small band of revolutionaries gets into a position where they can affect change on a broad scale, and legally. That's how the corporations do it - except politicians working for them get rewarded much more quickly and with much more tangible rewards. Ah, instant gratification...


"Then the police came - I went in the house.

Cause they got Magnums too.

And they don't kill cars. They kill ni-gahs." - Richard Pryor

----

Niggas just don't know.


...y'know?

  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 09:36 AM

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10. "Think again"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

First, Y'all trust this government WAY TOO MUCH!

>>If the majority sees the truth,
>>then competent and honest public
>>officials could be elected to
>>institute change.
>
>This is the key.

Ever hear of Tyranny of the minority? Think that the Majority of people in El Salvador wanted death squads? South Africa -- was that a majority that wanted Aparthied? Believe me, the govt. has ways of keeping even an Enlightened majority from exercising their so-called "rights." They will just become less covert about denying people them. They will keep the majority in a state of fear through open brutality and rig elections in their favor in the name of preserving their "democracy." Don't think that they will just let their reign slip away because the majority doesn't sgree with them.

>The U.S. government will never drop
>bombs on its own soil.
> There's just too much
>of a risk of a
>drastic change in the way
>the people view their government
>if they do that.

They HAVE dropped bombs and used military force to murder their "own" countrymen. Learn about the bombing of MOVE here http://www.prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/move-story.html

If you don't feel like reading the whole thing, here is an exerpt: "On Monday, May 13, 1985, police and firemen launched a full scale military assault on the MOVE rowhouse using tear gas, water cannons, shotguns, Uzi's, M-16s, silenced weapons,
Browning Automatic Rifles, M-60 machine guns, a 20mm anti- tank gun, and a .50-caliber machine gun. Some of these weapons were illegally obtained with the help of the U.S. Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Agency. Between 6:00 and 7:30 am police fired over 10,000 rounds of ammunition at the house knowing there were women and children inside. They also tried to blast through the walls with the military explosives the FBI had illegally provided. When none of these measures succeeded in driving MOVE from the house, a state police helicopter was used to drop a bomb on the roof. This started a fire that officials deliberately allowed to burn, burning down the entire block of some 60 homes. MOVE members repeatedly tried to exit but were met with police gunfire which killed some of the adults and children in the alley behind the house. Six adults and five children died."

They will do ANYTHING to keep power in their hands! We can't be naive about this. They are the best trained killers in the world and also have a knack at doing so while preserving the illusion of "democracy" and "freedom."


love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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Mr_B
Charter member
199 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 10:07 AM

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11. "RE: Think again"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>Ever hear of Tyranny of the
>minority? Think that the
>Majority of people in El
>Salvador wanted death squads?
>South Africa -- was that
>a majority that wanted Aparthied?

Tell me you're not seriously comparing the governments of El Salvador and South Africa then to the government of the United States of America now?

El Salvador has a revolution - who cares on an international level? Same with South Africa. If shit hits the fan in the USA, EVERYBODY is watching. The powers that be in this country know that.


>They HAVE dropped bombs and used
>military force to murder their
>"own" countrymen. Learn about
>the bombing of MOVE here
>http://www.prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/move-story.html

Now I don't doubt that the government will kill its own people without hesitation. But when I say drop bombs, I mean drop bombs to kill everyone in the area, even when EVERYONE knows that innocent people will die. I say they won't do it. That's not trusting them. That's knowing that they have too much to lose compared to the possible gains.

----

Niggas just don't know.


...y'know?

  

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skin

Sun Apr-30-00 01:16 AM

  
36. "RE: Think again"
In response to Reply # 11


          

>Tell me you're not seriously comparing
>the governments of El Salvador
>and South Africa then to
>the government of the United
>States of America now?

the government of the USA, well...
we live in the BELLY of the beast
the other governments you speak of would not be the way they are if it was not for imperialism and capitalist globalization
at the top of that ladder the good USA
the exploitative nature of capitalism on our natural resources cannot last forever
why is cuba such a threat?
why the debate over elian, while the US border patrol and the INS would send back a 6 year old boy from mexico with no questions asked
just like clinton's tour/plea for all the african countries to implement capitalism FOR A BETTER LIFE
a better life for who?
a few corporations that profit off doing businesses in 'third world' nations
while the women and children are forced to work for unsuitable wages, risking rape and torture

sometimes i think that talk about searching for truth and elevating the mind and internal peace by increased spiritual awareness, blah blah
"revolution of the mind" type bullshit
how can you have internal peace knowing that at any moment you could be the next target for speaking out against this government, the largest terrorist in the world
who also fits the official definition of a "GANG" better than anything i've known

revolution aint no romantic philosophy
more often than not, that is white middle class rhetoric
revolution has been and always will be about the people
if the masses are inclined to uprise with weapon in hand, so be it
fuck the idea of a talented tenth
true progress stems from a collective desire to see change, and willingness to act on it
for those who are against violence and bloodshed relating to revolution, look at what state we are living in now
people of color
women
gays/lesbians
we are all enslaved peoples

how much progress have we really made?


  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Mon May-01-00 01:33 PM

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37. "just what I'm talking about ..."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          


>how can you have internal peace
>knowing that at any moment
>you could be the next
>target for speaking out against
>this government, the largest terrorist
>in the world
>who also fits the official definition
>of a "GANG" better than
>anything i've known

This is precicely what I'm getting at. Who's to say you're not next! What happens when they come for you, or your sister, or your grandmoms? Just cuz? These people are pros in the international terrorist arena, and they won't bow down to no "let's all just transcend"-type ish. I'm not saying that decolonization shouldn't happen on the spiritual plane as well, but WHAT DO WE DO in face of such overt repression?




love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org

EFF AN OFFENSIVE QUOTE! MAY IS NEBBIE APPRECIATION MONTH:

"I done already took you off the topic and now you just fallin prey to what evea i say.....I be you govment now!!"

"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light"

"fuck turning the other cheek menatlity.....i got an 75% accuracy shooting"

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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velodragon

Tue Apr-25-00 10:41 AM

  
12. "RE: Think again"
In response to Reply # 10


          

> Believe me, the govt.
>has ways of keeping even
>an Enlightened majority from exercising
>their so-called "rights."

I agree with this, which is why the change in attitudes has to be widespread. With the US system, will an enlightended majority stand for a corrupt government like in South Africa? I don't think so, and they have two weapons to fight it: with their vote and with their dollar. Boycotts work if enough people get behind them-that's how you send a message to a corporation. Voting can shut down oppressive politics, but nowhere near enough people do it.
The key to both of these tactics is to motivate people to educate themselves about the world around them and take action to improve the world. I've said before that apathy is a right, but I never said that we have to agree with it, or that we shouldn't try to change apathetic attitudes.

>>The U.S. government will never drop
>>bombs on its own soil.
>> There's just too much
>>of a risk of a
>>drastic change in the way
>>the people view their government
>>if they do that.

Ever hear of the Branch Dividians? Or Ruby Ridge?
What's the difference between bomb and a bullet? Both accomplish the same thing. People shouldn't care what method their government uses to murder their countrymen.

>They are the
>best trained killers in the
>world and also have a
>knack at doing so while
>preserving the illusion of "democracy"
>and "freedom."

Which is why I don't think an armed revolution will work. It's not a David vs. Goliath situation, it's David vs. five Goliaths (police, army, navy, air force, marines).

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Mr_B
Charter member
199 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 01:39 PM

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14. "RE: Think again"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

>What's the difference between bomb and
>a bullet?

Liability. Image.

If Bill Clinton says to send some ATF agents to quell a "situation," he's sending a group of individuals under the command of more individuals. Any one of these individuals can easily be blamed if something goes "wrong" and innocent people die. They were in an intense situation. They got caught up in that syndrome or whatever it was that made cops fill Diallo with holes. If Bill Clinton says "launch explosives on this camp," the blame for innocent deaths goes directly to the top.

Again, I'm not saying they would hesitate to take out anyone, I'm just saying they wouldn't drop bombs from the safety of the white house.


"Then the police came - I went in the house.

Cause they got Magnums too.

And they don't kill cars. They kill ni-gahs." - Richard Pryor

----

Niggas just don't know.


...y'know?

  

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velodragon

Tue Apr-25-00 03:58 PM

  
15. "RE: Think again"
In response to Reply # 14


          

What I meant to get across is: why should the perception of a bullet used by the government against innocent people be different from that of a bomb?? I understand that a bomb looks worse from a PR standpoint. My point is, ANY unjustly violent action the government takes against it's own citizens should be scrutinized. Shootings of civilians need to carry the same wieght as bombings when they both result in death as far as liability goes. If this was the case, there would (hopefully) be hesitance to send deadly force into a situation so readily.

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monstaz

Fri Apr-28-00 03:19 AM

  
33. "RE how do we"
In response to Reply # 10


          

go about organizing such a movement...the gov got all sorts of resources...we cant just have people runnin wild wit guns and things...it has to be a organized and collective effort for all those involved..im for revolution but not without some type of discipline..i did military time and i have shooting skillz..im ready as far as that shit goes...alot of people talk it but will they start ringn out shouts when the shit gets hot...and how many people are going to fall accidentally becuz of lack of organization..i dont have the answers, im just posing the question...any suggestions people...

mother sistah always watchn(rubydee)

i aint a playa but i got some peeps up in ohio(boogieman)

i cockblocked the world so they cant fuck me over(strange)


  

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DJChe

Tue Apr-25-00 06:40 PM

  
16. "what's up el_rey?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's just so tough to tell in a country like this one. At this monment in time, the last thing from the minds of the general public is an armed uprising. I have enough trouble in my soc. classes getting white folks (damn, there I go generalizing...) black folks too, for that matter to so much as RECOGNIZE the injustices that exist as being a problem for our society as a whole. Perhaps it's cause the vast majority of my time is spent in North Carolina as opposed to my "second homes" of Philly and NYC, but I have trouble spotting the revolutionary spirit in most of my friends and aquaintences these days.
I guess I am just a little sceptical as to where and how such an uprising would begin without innocent lives lost and spirits crushed right off the bat. In the meantime, I do my best to stay politicaly involved with Human Rights Watch and the ACLU (sueing Philly for the right to protest... damn setling bastards). It does give me hope to see so many working for freedom and equality within the existing system. There's a long-ass way to go, but progress IS being made.

On a seperate note, I am writing a 20 page (dear God, deliver me) term paper on Mumia and the underlying constitutional violations in his case as well as discrimination w/in the criminal justice system. I have some pretty decent information sources and one of the largest libraries on the east coast by my side, but any information sources or authors you could recomend would be most helpfull. Thanks in advance.

Peace,
Che

"When crime is orginized enough, it isn't even against the law."- Huey

"Everything you play reflects all your experiences."- John Coltrane

"There are two kinds of music: good and bad."- Duke Ellington

"i do not wish
to lose my mind
only to find my heart"- saul williams

  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Wed Apr-26-00 03:17 AM

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18. "RE: what's up el_rey?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Che,

Good to hear from you on this post. I too see the near-futility of an armed uprising in THIS COUNTRY. I guess I wanted to raise the more philisophical question of armed revolution in other countries as well. I know that it would depend on the country, but the question remains: is there a place for it in the world today? Does it have its place, and how does one (or a people) recognize that the time is right for such a thing?

Also, in the context of the US, WHAT IS THE PROPOER RESPONSE FOR THE CONTINUED BRUTILIZATION, POVERTY, MISEDUCATION, AND MURDER OF THE PEOPLE BY THE STATE? I am thinking less and less that these protests that we keep on having are of any consequence. Boycotts are good, cuz you're hitting them where it counts, but to do it successfully, we'd have to organize wide-scale cooperatives across the board aso that enough poeple could live "off the grid" and survive without what we're fooled into believing we can't live without.

And what about self-defence? What is the response for cops/deathsquads/the state coming into your town/village and killing random people, raping your mother, sister and grandmother, leaving people for dead? Can't relate (I'm not saying YOU personally, but "you" the general polulation reading this) ... How about 41 bulletts, and then someone new next week, and the next? Where do we draw the line? I believe in self-defense and if there is systematic brutalization of me, my family, my people going on (like there is) I think there should be a more drastic response, although I'm not sure what that response should be.

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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DJChe

Wed Apr-26-00 05:22 PM

  
20. "i wish"
In response to Reply # 18


          

that folks in general were more societal. there is so much rampant indivisualism in the united states. it seems that when injustice takes place, the vast majority of the population turns an apathetic head if it does not directly affect them. words like "socialism" might as well be vile curses when talking to your average middle class suburbinite.
alright, ima stop now, cause i'm having a whole mess of trouble orginizing my thoughts. i'll get back.

peace,
Che

"Everything you play reflets all your experiences."- John Coltrane

oh, true- thanks for the site links, peace

  

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incogx
Charter member
517 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 07:41 PM

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17. "Revolution in 2G"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

El ray, I share your feelings. On one hand I don’t like violence, but on the other I feel like enough is enough. I know I’m not the only one that had some violent thoughts & impulses from the continuous blatent injustices we suffer. Personally I’m fed up. I’ve been reading a lot of stuff from the movement in the 60s and 70s and it gets me fired up & thinking about what we need to do. I think that it’s important for us to know about that period because there’s a lot that we can take from the panthers, etc... but we can’t do things exactly the same in 2G.

Even back then the gov’t didn’t seem to have much problem infiltrating and assassinating. Look at how Hoover got to Malcolm & MLK ans countless others! And now with advances in technology and increasing quiet weapons for silent wars it would be that much easier for them to take us out. So if we all just loaded up & took it to the streets it would most likely end up in a whole lot of dead revolutionaries and little change. Best beleive they will bomb us, Nuke us, whatever. YES, they will drop bombs on US soil. And the gov’t could use our violent revolt as an excuse for FEMA to declare martial law and then we’d really be effed up. We need to find other means to fight. I’m not even gonna front like I have some master plan mapped out. That’s got to be collective plan. But at the same time we should all know how to defend ourselves physically because any revolution is going to have some physical violence.

Before any kind of revolution can happen we have to kill the apathy that’s plaguing us. Until that happens we’ll never change shit. We need to get free but we also need to be breathing to do that. I don’t have an exact answer of how to do this, but I’m down to the death so lets find one together.

1ne L,
incog
~~~~~~
“bwoy, if ya dis marcus ye must bite the dust”
...Capelton

“brothas want a record deal, but can they deal with a record”
...malik yusef

“now we all servin’ time/ even my prose is on probation”
...saul williams

“no trees grow in brooklyn/ seeds need to be planted/ i’m askin’ if yall feel me & the crowd left me stranded”
...talib kweli

saying being hardline is what it takes/ to take life/ hiding behind your iconic shield representing cowardice/ we as a people need to cower less
...Vet

trying not to gag lolly
through melancholy
subways astray
tap my conscience on the ash tray
and exhale potential
from an overworked mental
dismantled
...incog

http://www.marcuskwame.com

http://www.myspace.com/inkogmrgone

http://www.myspace.com/marcus_kwame77

  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Wed Apr-26-00 03:29 AM

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19. "beautiful response!"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

Incog,

i hear you on this. I'm looking for a solution. We need to educate people, snap em out of their domestic daze, keep the pigs at bay while we set up our collectives for a new society. Like I was saying to DJCHE, we need to hit em below the belt through (what Gandhi spoke of as) "non-participation" in their system(s). Remove ourselves from the grid so to speak. We need to actively work at decolonizing ourselves materially as well as psychilcally, mentally and emotionally from their entire murderous paradigm! And we can't do it alone. Yes, its a long, arduous road ... but what do we do to respond in the meantime, while we're (actively) waiting for people to get educated/free? Protests seem to be nothing more than primal-scream sessions that get little done (especially now that the press don't cover them). What kinds of direct-action can we take? Now that the prison-industrial-complex is so over-developed, "flooding their jails" to tie up the judicial system seems to just benefit them and we end up focusing more on trying to get our people out of jail (goddamn! How many more years does Leneord Peltier have to sit in that rotting cell?!!!!!!!!!). I'm at a loss for what to do? We need to seriously organize, sit down and talk, come up with a plan, confer with all those that came before us (that are still alive and not in prison) and get to moving!

>El ray, I share your feelings.
>On one hand I don’t
>like violence, but on the
>other I feel like enough
>is enough. I know I’m
>not the only one that
>had some violent thoughts &
>impulses from the continuous blatent
>injustices we suffer. Personally I’m
>fed up. I’ve been reading
>a lot of stuff from
>the movement in the 60s
>and 70s and it gets
>me fired up & thinking
>about what we need to
>do. I think that it’s
>important for us to know
>about that period because there’s
>a lot that we can
>take from the panthers, etc...
>but we can’t do things
>exactly the same in 2G.
>
>
>Even back then the gov’t didn’t
>seem to have much problem
>infiltrating and assassinating. Look at
>how Hoover got to Malcolm
>& MLK ans countless others!
>And now with advances in
>technology and increasing quiet weapons
>for silent wars it would
>be that much easier for
>them to take us out.
>So if we all just
>loaded up & took it
>to the streets it would
>most likely end up in
>a whole lot of dead
>revolutionaries and little change. Best
>beleive they will bomb us,
>Nuke us, whatever. YES, they
>will drop bombs on US
>soil. And the gov’t could
>use our violent revolt as
>an excuse for FEMA to
>declare martial law and then
>we’d really be effed up.
>We need to find other
>means to fight. I’m not
>even gonna front like I
>have some master plan mapped
>out. That’s got to be
>collective plan. But at the
>same time we should all
>know how to defend ourselves
>physically because any revolution is
>going to have some physical
>violence.
>
>Before any kind of revolution can
>happen we have to kill
>the apathy that’s plaguing us.
>Until that happens we’ll never
>change shit. We need to
>get free but we also
>need to be breathing to
>do that. I don’t have
>an exact answer of how
>to do this, but I’m
>down to the death so
>lets find one together.
>
>1ne L,
>incog
>~~~~~~
>“bwoy, if ya dis marcus ye
>must bite the dust”
>...Capelton
>
>“brothas want a record deal, but
>can they deal with a
>record”
>...malik yusef
>
>“now we all servin’ time/ even
>my prose is on probation”
>
>...saul williams
>
>“no trees grow in brooklyn/ seeds
>need to be planted/ i’m
>askin’ if yall feel me
>& the crowd left me
>stranded”
>...talib kweli
>
>saying being hardline is what it
>takes/ to take life/ hiding
>behind your iconic shield representing
>cowardice/ we as a people
>need to cower less
>...Vet
>
>trying not to gag lolly
>through melancholy
>subways astray
>tap my conscience on the ash
>tray
>and exhale potential
>from an overworked mental
>dismantled
>...incog


love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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incogx
Charter member
517 posts
Wed Apr-26-00 07:04 PM

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22. "RE: beautiful response!"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

>we need to hit em below the belt through
>(what Gandhi spoke of as) "non-participation"
>in their system(s). Remove ourselves from the
>grid so to speak. We need to actively work at
>decolonizing ourselves materially as well as
>psychilcally, mentally and emotionally from
>their entire murderous paradigm!

Very true, el ray. I’ve been meaning to post the following info from a flyer I received. It goes along with what you’re saying. Many of you have probably already heard about this but just in case I’ll put it up here.
~~~
MAY 20TH IS BLACK OUT DAY!

National BLACK OUT DAY is a day where black people will not spend their money anywhere. Black people across America will not frequent any establishment to show white America that our money has spending power, that we can unify together and relay a powerful message. The message is that we are not the minority. We are the majority. Our dollars keep the economic system afloat. And if we do not spend money in any white establishments, they will be able to see the impact on what one single day can have on economics. We will do this again and again until we see justice for Amadou Diallo!
~~~

I agree fully with this but I think we should carry this out even further than one day. I think we should pay more attention to who our purchases support every day of the year. We should make it a regular practice to support black business & at the same time impact those that capitalize off of us.

Peace,
Incog
____

“bwoy, if ya dis marcus ye must bite the dust”
...Capelton

“brothas want a record deal, but can they deal with a record”
...malik yusef

“now we all servin’ time/ even my prose is on probation”
...saul williams

“no trees grow in brooklyn/ seeds need to be planted/ i’m askin’ if yall feel me & the crowd left me stranded”
...talib kweli

saying being hardline is what it takes/ to take life/ hiding behind your iconic shield representing cowardice/ we as a people need to cower less
...Vet

trying not to gag lolly
through melancholy
subways astray
tap my conscience on the ash tray
and exhale potential
from an overworked mental
dismantled
...incog

http://www.marcuskwame.com

http://www.myspace.com/inkogmrgone

http://www.myspace.com/marcus_kwame77

  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Thu Apr-27-00 02:01 AM

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23. "Sounds dope!"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

I'm gonna pass this on to as many people as possible.

Thanks for the info!

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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JUSTICE
Charter member
17889 posts
Wed Apr-26-00 06:18 PM

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21. "LOOKY HERE!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It is possible for an armed revolution to occur, and for the people to win it. First you need to Centralize what "the enemy" will expect. The Military offensive will be slowed by the reason that the soldiers will not want to attack domestically. The real trick in the peoples stratedgy (sp?) will be to get the military AS WORKING CLASS INDIVIDUALS to our side. Many of these warriors do not agree with thier Gov'ts actions. Thats where we'll win it. I was gonna join the Navy Corpsmen to get the training just in case....I will expound more shortly, now I will prepare for the opposition in this reply!

JUSTICE

http://www.sector9.com
http://www.internationalsocialist.org
http://www.neckexersize.com
CELEBRATING APRIL AS WACK QUOTE MONTH:
"Took-look-yuk-duk-wuk" Cold lampin with Flava


++++++++++++++++++++++++
myspace.com/sonnyphono
dlxsf.com

  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Thu Apr-27-00 02:03 AM

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24. "... uh, justice?"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Are you in the ISO?

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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JUSTICE
Charter member
17889 posts
Thu Apr-27-00 03:45 AM

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26. "RE: ... uh, justice?"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Not actively, why?
JUSTICE

http://www.sector9.com
http://www.internationalsocialist.org
http://www.neckexersize.com
CELEBRATING APRIL AS WACK QUOTE MONTH:
"Took-look-yuk-duk-wuk" Cold lampin with Flava


++++++++++++++++++++++++
myspace.com/sonnyphono
dlxsf.com

  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Thu Apr-27-00 09:22 AM

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29. "RE: ... uh, justice?"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

Saw your sig and got curious.

Let's say I've never had the best of relationships with 'em ... but there's always a first for everything.

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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nebt_het
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4614 posts
Thu Apr-27-00 02:15 AM

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25. "As Flo Brown said....."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"It armegeddoon niggas betta grab a gun"

I say I am all for spiritual war i got 360+360 and counting......however if it comes down to it Nebbie will be gun clapper number 1!!
I am well prepared and stil am preparing for whatevea.......Behavior breeds Behavior.....fuck turning the other cheek menatlity.....i got an 75% accuracy shooting......I am gaining extensive training in Kobujitsu (weapons) cuz i got a diety in my house,one of the ancient ones.....We will be outta here.......fuck a reptilian ass decendent nebbie aint no jok
I have bust shots cuz my life and my childs life was in question....i dont have piece now.....cuz.....cuz i aint got one....el_rey stop laughin you i can see yo i aint crazy...i swear!




nebtsoul~~~~

If you don't cook me some motherfucking whiting i'll kill you!!!!!!!!!! (c) fireface

"they say karate means empty hand so its perfect for the poor man" Dead Prez

"Fuck Fuck Fuck You!!" Nou Ra

"It dont take a whole day to recognize sunshine" Common

" E El Isum Shil El Eloh El Rahmun, Alazi Izu El Rahummul!"


  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Thu Apr-27-00 04:48 AM

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27. "You know I been waitin fo' ya!"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

*checking watch* When's Nebbie gonna get up in this piece? Girlfriend's LATE!

Neb I'm feeling you on this. I'd defend my loved ones/peeps to the death without a doubt! Naw, you ain't crazy ... you just ready!

I ain't never shot nothing in my life and I hope to never have to, but ... but ... things are getting outta control, and sometimes I wish that I knew ... n/m?

!!!!!!!!!!!

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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emil
Charter member
10566 posts
Thu Apr-27-00 05:20 AM

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28. "arm or get done"
In response to Reply # 27


          

let's start an okaygun coalition. i got a lil 22 for neb can borrow. if that's too pus for ya, there's a 38 somewhere in the crib. still not deadly enough (damn militants!!!)??? we got a selection of wwII and modern rifles and shotguns of various gauges. wal-mart got ALL the ammo, and cheap too. i even know a guy with some grenade launchers and larger armanament....

pyros forever!!!

http://www.geocities.com/originalbluepeanut/

  

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nebt_het
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4614 posts
Fri Apr-28-00 02:21 AM

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32. "RE: arm or get done"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

I want a dessert eagle.......I had a glock 40 with 2 15 shot clips and 1 30 shot clip(tennesse)
also had a 380 with a beam and 4 15 shot clips
a 357 snub with beam.......Hi volicity bulletts baby......yeah! Whew I love gun
I got a lil knive collect fo ya too......can yall throw em'?
Nebgotskills}>





nebtsoul~~~~

If you don't cook me some motherfucking whiting i'll kill you!!!!!!!!!! (c) fireface

"they say karate means empty hand so its perfect for the poor man" Dead Prez

"Fuck Fuck Fuck You!!" Nou Ra

"It dont take a whole day to recognize sunshine" Common

" E El Isum Shil El Eloh El Rahmun, Alazi Izu El Rahummul!"


  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Fri Apr-28-00 03:39 AM

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34. "School's in session ..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Allright fam, I think we need to propose a guerrilla training session at the reunion (shoot, maybe I'll even go!). Guns, knives, hand-2-hand, hi-tech weapons ... yeah, that'd be the ish!

*catching slackers out corner of eye*

What's this?!!

*in Seargent's voice*

NEBBIE! DROP AND GIVE ME 50!!!!!!!!

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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CulTurE

Thu Apr-27-00 01:00 PM

  
30. "yo"
In response to Reply # 0


          

theres no way a militia or peoples army could go up against the us army and wahtever else forces they got. so the only way is to be discreet. we could win the war without it ever startin. if u gonna use arms use them on someone of power. theres some people that id trade death with or incarceration.but like someone posted dont be flashy dont have a big name leader. they cant bomb a HQ if there aint one.dont let them know whats goin on

  

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el_rey
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5626 posts
Fri Apr-28-00 02:11 AM

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31. "guerrilla ish, n/m?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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naame
Charter member
21015 posts
Fri Apr-28-00 08:46 AM

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35. "damn damn damn"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

ya'll be killing me. "Kill the pigs! Fuck cops!" Ya'll know you have great minds but don't want to use them to your advantage. "You trust the government too much!" That's because we can change the government. As many conspiracies and plots against countries that you want to bring up, there is still the fact that you aren't involved in changing the government. Armed revolution will occur when we feel all the other options have been exhausted. 15th century. talk twentieth century. the revolutions were non-violent. all small party took over the government non-violently and transformed the nations. The reason why Amadou Diallo's death didn't give us the impetus to take up arms and kill whitey is because reasonable people recognize that that is not the best way to change things. It's most emotional, the most self serving, but it's not the best way. You see on these boards the way that people don't want to get involved. We are more involved with going against
"the government" than going into "the government" and changing it. Isn't that what our government does to other countries? Get's a group involved in the government to change things?

peace

America has imported more warlord theocracy from Afghanistan than it has exported democracy.

  

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el_rey
Charter member
5626 posts
Tue May-09-00 10:17 AM

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38. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Just wondering if anyone has anything else to say on the topic.

We've hardly exhausted the subject ...

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org

EFF AN OFFENSIVE QUOTE! MAY IS NEBBIE APPRECIATION MONTH:

"I done already took you off the topic and now you just fallin prey to what evea i say.....I be you govment now!!"

"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light"

"fuck turning the other cheek menatlity.....i got an 75% accuracy shooting"

"save ya souls fuck all this elian goverment guilliani crap......they aint no control over the universe.....that shit has greater power.....time to align ourselves with the universe..."

"i am really cool as shit...and yes i would beat a person with a bag of rusty screw drivers."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Tue May-09-00 12:01 PM

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39. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

dear el-rey,

sorry it took me so long to answer this.

I feel that there's nothing wrong with people reacting in a violent way to the much harder and tougher violence they're exposed to on a daily basis, whether it be from companies or governments (both have similar intrests in our Western capitalist societies).

I'm not saying it's the perfect way, cos it DOES mean more risks, more potential danger for the people involved.

However, it's perverted when government officials or company CEO's denounce 'agression' or 'violence' by 'common people', when at the same time they're 1000's of times more violent every day through the IMF, World Bank, etcetera.

As you put it : it's 'selfdefense', not agression.

I'd love to talk more about this, but I haven't read all replies yet, and I'm reading a lot of books right now, so I need some time to think this over and come back later, okay ?

Hope I said something useful.

krewcial



OKAYPLAYERSONG PT. 2 :
Real Audio : http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/audio/okp2s.rm
MP3 : http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/audio/okp2s.mp3

OKAYPLAYERSONG PT. 1 (the original baybee !!):
MP3 : http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators/audio/okplayer.mp3

homebase : http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators


'We've got to change our own minds about each other. We have to see each other with new eyes. We have to see each other as brothers and sisters. We have to come together with warmth'

krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

Nashville recording sessions : www.krewcial.com/nashville

  

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el_rey
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5626 posts
Wed May-10-00 03:50 AM

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41. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

dear krewcial,

You kiddin? You always got something relavant to say. I wholeheartedly agree that self-defence is a legitimate and viable response to state aggression, although I now am asking wether or not it is viable as a solitary act of a single person. Clearly the risks are greater, but I also wonder if it truly serves its purpose if committed outside of a larger struggle. What may be the issues and differneces around solitary acts of self-defence, and mass, armed resistance to state aggression?

>However, it's perverted when government officials
>or company CEO's denounce 'agression'
>or 'violence' by 'common people',
>when at the same time
>they're 1000's of times more
>violent every day through the
>IMF, World Bank, etcetera.

TRUE! TRUE!

I await your more involved response once you get some time.

love and respect,
El Rey


"We live the now for the promise of the infinite." - Mos Def

http://www.mumia2000.org
http://www.mumia.org
http://www.mumia911.org

EFF AN OFFENSIVE QUOTE! MAY IS NEBBIE APPRECIATION MONTH:

"I done already took you off the topic and now you just fallin prey to what evea i say.....I be you govment now!!"

"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light"

"fuck turning the other cheek menatlity.....i got an 75% accuracy shooting"

"save ya souls fuck all this elian goverment guilliani crap......they aint no control over the universe.....that shit has greater power.....time to align ourselves with the universe..."

"i am really cool as shit...and yes i would beat a person with a bag of rusty screw drivers."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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AfricanHerbsman

Wed May-10-00 02:28 AM

  
40. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

>So I ask: is there a
>time for armed self-defence against
>the state?

self-defence .. it's bound to be twisted/misconstrued as offense. what it'll say is that 'these people want the kid gloves off' .. if 'kid gloves' ever even existed, now you'll be met with an iron fist so you best be sure that all are as committed to armed revolution as yourself.

thing with all-out war, what'll you be left with at the end of it? if we lost out, those that survive will be left to hell on earth. which isn't to say the present situation is that much better but damn.

peops have suffered enough. this thing'll have to be either mad guerilla and underground and well strategised .. or it has to be done peacefully, politically from the inside.

i mean, i think most people now acknowledge that overt racism in/of itself is wrong .. progression can be made. power corrupts though and drags shizz back to some sort of fugged up euquilibrium. either way, a clear agenda's needed first off.

Is it
>futile in light of the
>weaponry they have?

with all this ranting and raving about gats
THEY made them gats, they got shit that'll BLOW out our backs
From where they STAY at .. - 'Babylon', Dre, OutKast

superior weaponry and 'a trillion years of game' .. dirty tricks .. any means to turns us on each other, infiltrate, neutralise, discredit, dope up, disband, frame, murder and convert.

heavy firepower would be the very last resort because face it .. somebody/camera surveys every single thing we think, do and say. how far would revolution get before somebody somewhere was on a list, if they aren't already.

When does
>one know that "the time
>is right"?

time is never right for war. you'll know it when enough people, collectively, refuse to accept shizz anymore and throw down, collectively.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Herbsman.

i'm patient with poetry and very particular about the parts I play
1st thing that comes to mind isn't always the brightest thing to say - Cee Lo

seize your time! - Marley


MAY OFFENCE:

Stick they hands in they panties, grab that knot
Stick they arm in the car window, drop it like it's hot - Jay Z

  

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Federisco
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5002 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 01:21 PM

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47. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

>time is never right for war.
>you'll know it when enough
>people, collectively, refuse to accept
>shizz anymore and throw down,
>collectively.

You said it, this revolution will build up, slowly. It's growing more and more, it's coming. Slowly it'll just BE right to do it, it will just BE SO that it will be a mass movement.

Before that happening there will be many attacks, to build it up until that movement. But i don't think that final movement will be a completely violent one? It will just be people standing up... "time for a change, enough fruit has been made rotten"-style. But shit.. if USA fights back, they got a hell coming after them

im ready for it

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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velodragon

Fri May-19-00 11:11 AM

  
42. "consider this"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I got this idea today in class when we were discussing environmentalism, and I thought it was perfect for this discussion:

Suppose you have a field of wheat, and that it has become overrun with noxious weeds. To fix the problem, you burn the field. Everything is gone now, the good wheat along with the bad weeds, and now you think that you can start over by planting new wheat. Soon enough, however, the weeds grow back because their strong roots remained in the ground. The wheat, on the other hand, was totally destoyed in the blaze. Also consider that sometimes these planned burns grow out of control and destroy even more that they were intended (Los Alamos).

The only way to rid the field of weeds so that the wheat can prosper is to go after each weed and pull it up by the root so that it cannot grow back. This method is tedious, difficult, time-consuming, and in the end futile (weeds always grow back), but is really the only way to banish the weeds from the field.


Overstand?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AIM - velodragon

Between me and every ideal I always find Scheisskopfs, Peckems, Korns, and Cathcarts. And that sort of changes the ideal.
--Yossarian

**May is Offensive Quote Month**
A handjob's a man's job, yo job's a blowjob
--MC Paul Barman

  

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cipher8

Fri May-19-00 11:43 AM

  
43. "80 billion vs 20 billion. You don't need guns."
In response to Reply # 0


          


80 billion in poverty and oppression by the year 2030. You don't need guns. You need people to wake up and realize their power. It's a matrix moment.


keep ur third eye on the sparrow-common

"flesh is full of holes
It is made to breathe
secrate receive
it is nothing against bombs and bullets
It is not meant to be a barrier against anything
But this dark flesh will resist you
flee you who believe
you are not made of the same skin and bones"--Cherrie Moraga

Who gave u/permission 2 rearrange me?/ certianly not me!--e. badu

Well behaved women rarely make HISstory.

http://www.homestead.com/waxrevolutionz/getup.html

  

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Federisco
Charter member
5002 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 01:25 PM

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48. "cosign"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

i've heard about a black revolution, but a revolution of those opposing USA makes much more sense (and they are many who are opposing it..them)

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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b00g1e
Charter member
7169 posts
Fri May-19-00 12:25 PM

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44. "well..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i personally think....the point of enough is enough is relative depending upon who you ask....I've had this discussion among my family...and we agree.....that it depends upon your stake in the system..if your wealthy living a wealthy life you have no desire to change a system that works well for you. and if your middle class you don't either because you belive in the system..and think you're but a step away from the wealthy and will eventually have what they have or at least that it's a possiblity for you and your children. The people who start the revloution are the ones with nothing to lose. Poor people...you can be fucked over anymore than you already are...you living on the edge as it is. enough will be enough when the poor and working poor of this country stand and decide i'm tired of the system fucking me and mine over. the actual systematic working of warfare hell...who knows how long it would last....past two hours? I mean if the mayor of philly can bomb his own citzaens on a city block..you know they dont give damn about bombing nobody else..especially the poor/working class. Would they go as far to evcen bother to engage? and besides some uncle tom/as' bendict arnold/judas would betray the movement before it got started. I know my thoughts about the matter aren't very encouraging....

@2SCCproject on twitter
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360sunsumyea
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653 posts
Tue May-23-00 07:31 AM

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46. "RE: well..."
In response to Reply # 44


          

this is in respomse to cipher8 and b00g1e.


i think the number one problem is that people don't even realize they are not free- the illusion of freedom vs. the reality of freedom. so revolution, mental, spiritual, or physical, is incomprehensible to so many who are not free, cuz they think they are, and don't see a reason for change.

i believe that a successful revolution will begin by spreading information (educating) to the poorest of society. there have been many who have done the research to build a valid case against the world powers that have sponsored sytematic exploitation and oppression, but it remains locked w/in the intellectual, african-centered, pro-comm/pro-socialist, groups, and never reaches the people who need the information the most. but i also think that the people w/ this information underestimate the ability/will of the poor to dig it.

something else that i think is often overlooked is that true revolution will be inter-generational, and key to the success will be the ability to effectively pass the knowledge and revolutionary spirit to our children. that's why the most revolutionary, the most african-centered thing we can do right now is to take care of home and family, so that as we grow in our knowledge and learn how to spread the information, we will have a powerbase that lives even when the flesh dies. we have to translate what we know to our husbands/wives, sons/daughters, fathers/mothers...
even if they eat pork and have different religious beliefs (cuz some people keep they children away from their families for these reasons)

"i'm an african" by dead prez:

i'm a runaway slave watchin the north
star
shackles on my forearm runnin w/ a gun in my palm

those of us who overstand have to stop separating ouselves from the people and use what we know (the only gun we really have right now) to come and free the people (the minds)...so we are all caught up (shackled), some of us just have the knowledge (the gun) to start changing ish, on whatever level. free the minds and the current state of society will become unacceptable and physical revolution will be a natural development.

the middle class might even get a clue.

**********THE SIG**********

i'm a tru pisces tryna flow in the direction of both of these okplayer quotes:

"I m raising a fuckin angelic being who is going to replenish this fuckin earths cuz in 2G all we fuckin do is talk.....im teachin my seed to turn his spirit inside out and spread beams of green light"
-nebbie

"GOd give me the strength to change the things i can, understanding for those i cannot and the muthafuckin heart to stand up for my beliefs and principles, so that when the government that is suppossed to protect me turns against me and my people we will have the means, the might and the muthafuckin gun power to blow away our oppressors
umm amen"
-earthqueen

and last but not least:

"all things considered, i'd rather be me"
-bfnh

  

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Forlani

Mon May-22-00 01:53 PM

  
45. "RE: ARMED REVOLUTION/SELF-DEFENCE!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I had to do a report on this VERY topic. As I was collecting information and reading more and more on "Police Brutality" I found myself getting mad at the United State's conditions. I mean who can honestly say "they trust" the cops? They do not respect the people who they are suppose to protect! As far as the Diallo case is concerned...justice was not served! The police CAN murder anybody! Racism is STILL a factor...a report said that half of the police are openly racist and are trained to "target by law" minorities...for drug trafficing etc. This is the political aspect of it all...this was started just because politicians wanted "more" drug arrests. What kind of ISH is that? The worst case I found was in 1997 the NYPD broke a broomstick and stuck it up this mans ass...I wanted to just die when I heard that...I say FUCK the police...and ARM ourselves...it's time for a FUCKIN' REVOLUTION...

  

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