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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 03:57 AM

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"Let's have a baby!"


  

          

Prompted by recent discussions on children, child raising and education with some fellow okayplayers, I would now like to take the time to ask some of you your thoughts and ideas on certain aspects of raising children. We have on this board a few parents, some experienced, some just entering the journey, and one who has just been blessed with the experience of giving birth. We have psyche majors and a grad student who's specific area of study is early child development, so it seems like a nice foundation of resources are at our disposal. So the question is:

"If we were to take the best parts of everything learned from our experiences thus far in life (and on the boards), how would we best transmit these ideas and what exactly would be taught?"

For example: One might notice the merit that comes with knowing a few languages, and thus want to teach one's child a few from birth by speaking in another tongue during the child's formative years since this is the best time for learning.

One might want to start their child on a vegetarian diet to give it the healthiest start and start a behavior for that child that would certainly benefit him/her in the long run.

One might teach a child about the plethora of ideas that exist in each culture from the point of view of that cultural group, i.e. sending/or visiting with that child, a Yuruba community for a week or two in order to see what it's like first hand, vs. reading about it from a foreign perspective.

Basically this post is aimed at transcending the faults that i've noticed in the world and sometimes on these boards. It's not enough to just talk about the problems that we see, but if there is no plan to outgrow them and to hopefully give the next generation a push to the next level beyond us, then what's the point? We should be able to look at some of the mistakes being made ideologically and behaviorally around us and say to ourselves "how can i teach my child so that s/he dos not repeat these same mistakes?" or at least "what lessons can I teach that will show the pros an cons of a certain behavior and way of thinking?"

In closing, if we were to take some of the best lessons learned from okayactivist and put them into a child (our child) then what would they be? Think about it...try avoid unnecessary jokes (although i suspect this will be blood for the sharks)...and respond/react.

At the very least we can have some good brainstorming as to some of the more positive and applicable teachings and successes that some of us have seen/heard/witnessed...and give guerilla love something to read and ponder over during those few precious QUIET moments she gets by herself!

(((((peace)))))

Red, Black, Green

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
My thoughts:
Nov 06th 2001
1
RE: My thoughts:
Nov 06th 2001
3
RE: Let's have a baby!
Nov 06th 2001
2
wow...
Nov 06th 2001
5
good answers...
Nov 06th 2001
10
      RE: good answers...
Nov 06th 2001
45
From ground zero
Nov 06th 2001
4
there is nothing like
Nov 06th 2001
6
      my son eats books
Nov 06th 2001
7
           lol!
Nov 06th 2001
8
Question?
Nov 06th 2001
9
of course i want
Nov 06th 2001
11
      check it...
Nov 06th 2001
12
           the power of example
Nov 06th 2001
13
           true.
Nov 06th 2001
14
           so are you suggesting
Nov 06th 2001
16
                in atlanta there are models on how to do this...
Nov 06th 2001
19
Another Question?
Nov 06th 2001
15
if i may
Nov 06th 2001
17
WILL YOU BE QUIET?
Nov 06th 2001
18
      personally
Nov 06th 2001
20
           i wanna see how abduhu answers
Nov 06th 2001
21
                with all due respect (off topic)
Nov 06th 2001
24
1 out of 2 aint bad.
Nov 06th 2001
22
ok.
Nov 06th 2001
23
      same thing could be said about veganism
Nov 06th 2001
33
      yes.
Nov 06th 2001
34
           haha
Nov 06th 2001
74
      an answer, insha'allah.
Nov 06th 2001
83
      RE: ok.
bmig
Nov 08th 2001
132
I'm sending my kids to church.
Nov 06th 2001
25
      me too.
Nov 06th 2001
27
      I shouldn't say "sending"
Nov 06th 2001
29
           me too...
Nov 06th 2001
31
                The choirs
Nov 06th 2001
35
                     i'm gving my kid the catholic experience
Nov 06th 2001
36
                          If it was good for you.
Nov 06th 2001
38
                          i didn't go to church...
Nov 06th 2001
39
                               Well, whatever floats your boat.
Nov 06th 2001
40
                          ugh
Nov 07th 2001
90
      good point
Nov 07th 2001
89
gosh, well...
Nov 06th 2001
26
thanks...
Nov 06th 2001
28
on religion:
Nov 06th 2001
46
RE: Let's have a baby!
Dreadstar
Nov 06th 2001
30
RE: Let's have a baby!
Nov 06th 2001
32
RE: Let's have a baby!
Dreadstar
Nov 06th 2001
68
Baby talk.
Nov 06th 2001
37
      RE: Baby talk.
Dreadstar
Nov 06th 2001
70
           Go for it.
Nov 06th 2001
75
                RE: Go for it.
Dreadstar
Nov 06th 2001
85
ZAMI
Nov 06th 2001
41
word!
Nov 06th 2001
42
Zami's the coolest person I know
Nov 06th 2001
67
tight...n/m
Nov 06th 2001
44
what about school...
Nov 06th 2001
47
they can enroll w/o
Nov 06th 2001
48
also
Nov 07th 2001
102
just want him/her 2 b happy
Nov 06th 2001
43
how will t.v. fit into the picture?
Nov 06th 2001
49
Very little TV. As little as possible.
Nov 06th 2001
50
santa?
Nov 06th 2001
51
Entertainment.
Nov 06th 2001
52
i know i will hav my children watching wholesome shows...
Nov 06th 2001
54
      oh yeah...
Nov 06th 2001
55
           group activities?
Nov 06th 2001
56
                I dunno.
Nov 06th 2001
59
                     group/social activities
Nov 06th 2001
62
RE: santa?
masani
Nov 06th 2001
61
      Looking 4 a Religion?
Nov 07th 2001
106
           RE: Looking 4 a Religion?
masani
Nov 07th 2001
109
ditto...
Nov 07th 2001
86
subjective?
Nov 06th 2001
53
although this would be a long time from now...
Nov 06th 2001
57
me too...
Nov 06th 2001
58
the woods?
Nov 06th 2001
65
no TV
Nov 12th 2001
141
something else:
Nov 06th 2001
60
You know what?
Nov 06th 2001
63
sadly i've never seen the ocean yet!
Nov 06th 2001
66
      NEVER SEEN THE OCEAN?
Nov 06th 2001
76
find a shallow stream
Nov 14th 2001
151
Equip
Nov 06th 2001
64
i used to read encyclopedias too...
Nov 06th 2001
69
I read encyclopedias, too.
Nov 06th 2001
71
The first thing I learned to read
Nov 06th 2001
72
I forgot it all
Nov 07th 2001
87
      Same here.
Nov 07th 2001
96
reading is definately important....
Nov 06th 2001
73
      about kids' books...
Nov 07th 2001
88
Mentioned before, but
Nov 06th 2001
77
RE: Mentioned before, but
Nov 06th 2001
79
RE: Let's have a baby!
Nov 06th 2001
78
Morals vs. Your Own Path
Nov 06th 2001
80
good question:
Nov 06th 2001
81
RE: Morals vs. Your Own Path
Nov 06th 2001
82
RE: Morals vs. Your Own Path
Nov 06th 2001
84
one thing
Nov 07th 2001
91
Would you ever test your child?
Nov 07th 2001
92
RE: Would you ever test your child?
Nov 07th 2001
93
      you're right...
Nov 07th 2001
94
      RE: you're right...
Nov 07th 2001
97
           i'd do it...
Nov 07th 2001
99
      RE: Would you ever test your child?
masani
Nov 07th 2001
110
speaking of morals in children..................
Nov 07th 2001
95
RE: speaking of morals in children..................
Nov 07th 2001
98
RE: speaking of morals in children..................
Nov 07th 2001
100
      damn niggers!
Nov 07th 2001
101
      I'm not surprised
Nov 07th 2001
103
that's why i have my sig
Nov 07th 2001
104
what about the obvious...
Nov 07th 2001
105
still all just theory, but....
Nov 07th 2001
107
good point
Nov 07th 2001
108
Damn
Nov 07th 2001
111
public or private schooling?
Nov 07th 2001
112
RE: public or private schooling?
Nov 07th 2001
113
the home schooled children i've met...
Nov 07th 2001
115
Wow
Nov 07th 2001
118
      they interact well with other children...
Nov 07th 2001
119
           That's great!
Nov 07th 2001
120
MOre
Nov 07th 2001
116
public (nonbritish public that is)
Nov 07th 2001
114
some homeschoolers
Nov 07th 2001
117
RE: public (nonbritish public that is)
Nov 08th 2001
131
      it's not an option for me.
Nov 08th 2001
133
           alternative schools
Nov 13th 2001
145
                i was thinking about steiner-schools....
Nov 13th 2001
146
                     mmh waldorf schools
Nov 13th 2001
147
also
Nov 07th 2001
121
oh and, public
Nov 07th 2001
123
Public.
Nov 07th 2001
122
me.
Nov 07th 2001
124
RE: public or private schooling?
Nov 07th 2001
125
      I agree
Nov 07th 2001
127
      cosign
Nov 13th 2001
144
RE: Let's have a baby!
Nov 07th 2001
126
consistency is key!
Nov 07th 2001
128
Also...
Nov 07th 2001
129
      no
Nov 08th 2001
130
I haven't read the other replies
Nov 08th 2001
134
INITIATION
Nov 08th 2001
135
there WILL be rites of passage
Nov 08th 2001
136
      R.O.P.
Nov 09th 2001
137
Circumsion
Nov 09th 2001
138
that should read
Nov 12th 2001
140
unnatural...
Nov 13th 2001
142
      RE: unnatural...
Nov 13th 2001
148
           how is foreskin...
Nov 14th 2001
154
Extended Family
Nov 09th 2001
139
most definitely.
Nov 13th 2001
143
Cursing
Nov 14th 2001
149
no
Nov 14th 2001
150
      community service is requisite...
Nov 14th 2001
152
           LOL
Nov 14th 2001
153

Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 04:10 AM

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1. "My thoughts:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I think having a child raised in an environment that loves him/her is most important, first and foremost.

In some of my readings on child rearing, i think by an author Scott Peck (i think) he made a point in saying that children are like arrows shot from a bow. The parents are the bow and that as such are involved in steadying the arrow and getting it "lined up" in the way it should go. When the bow is released, it is free to travel anywhere it wants. The key point is that it is "FREE". I think the chapter was on the issue of parents trying to hold onto their children forever, and keep them as children. Thus i come to my point of having a child raised in a loving nurturing environment, but not so much as to create perpetual babies. Children are FARRRRRRR more intelligent than i see some parents giving them credit. I think this has to do somewhat with control and inability to effectively teach.

merican children are educated at a rate and level that far undermines their abilites. An Indian coworker of mines child that always comes in impresses the other coworkers in his ability to grasp concepts that they thought were far beyond that of a child at 7 years of age. One thing i found out upon asking the father about how he knows, is that he started teaching him so-called "adult" topics and thought patterns early.

Someone else made the point to say that children are as intelligent as adults, they are just smaller and cannot do for themselves. I mean, how many times do you hear of parents asking their children to fix an issue on their computers? Children have potential that for whatever reasons is stifled by parents or just not tapped into.

So my ingredient into the activist baby is recognizing its inate potential and taking advantage of it. Doing this, we give it the best start by not limiting ourselves in thinking it is not capable. The goal is for it to surpass us one day and assume our position and accomplish tasks greaetr than ours, so why not psychologically start on our end and stop the cycle of "limiting" children to our level?

other ingredients?

(((((PEACE)))))

Red, Black, Green

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 05:39 AM

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3. "RE: My thoughts:"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

People have to allow children to develop (w)holistically, meeting all their needs. It goes beyond intelligence. Children need to know how to effectively deal with adversity: control, ownership, reach and endurance. When kids can turn obstacles into opportunities and be personally free they can become positive, productive people. Personal freedom means being oneself and rejecting conditioning in order to break free of convention...to be creative and innovative in everyday life.

I believe every child come with their own purpose or plan and it's our role to help them realize it.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 05:33 AM

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2. "RE: Let's have a baby!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I will raise my children like my mother raised me with a few exceptions. For one, my mother was a great example for my sister and I. She put us first. She waited until she had her degree and a stable job before she had her first child. Second, she catered her child rearing methods according to each of our personalities. With me she was more hands off and with my sister she had to be more hands on. There are pluses and minuses with this...but it worked. Third, she understood youth developmental needs:

Caring adult(s): We were surrounded by caring people.

Belonging and membership: She allowed us to join everything from a children's ballet group, to Girl Scouts, to a variety of churches/affiliations. We belonged to a Baptist church but we explored Unitarian/Universalist, Pentacostal, Jehovah's Witness, etc.

Competency and mastery: Expectations were high to begin with because my mother spoke/read 3 or 4 different languages, graduated from everything with highest honors, had a degree in philosophy and was a computer programmer/analyst back in the 70's and 80's when there wasn't a lot of Black women doing it. She encouraged us to take pride in good grades and perfect attendance but she never rewarded us with money or gifts. We understood we were accomplishing our goals for ourselves.

Knowledge of self and others: My mother never told us we were Black or that white was right. She encouraged us to be ourselves and we listened to all kinds of music and were exposed to plays, art shows, dance, etc. When I needed therapy at age 12, she paid for it without question. I did not understand why I did not fit in or meet the "ideal" and learned to value my differences and understand others (the status quo) in order to ascend. Most important, she did not shield us from negative people and situations. We learned to thrive despite adversity.

Safety and structure: My mother struggled with the structure/stability part. My mother was/is bipolar and she could not always provide the structure and stability we needed. However, she made sure we were always taken care of, with my grandmother and aunt or us all together when she was manic.

Independence and control over one's life: I am independent and even defiant by nature and my mother encouraged this. She allowed me to climb/take risks and was there when I fell, especially when I was younger. I became more determined and resilient as a result. As an adult, I seldom need other's encouragement in order to be independent or take necessary risks.

Opportunities to contribute: I have always been a giving person. As a child, I made art as gifts for people. I liked being the helper, making art that inspired others and got involved in community service early in my life. When I was 15, I became an assistant in a children's hospital. I went from candy striper to support staff and the experience changed my life. My mother believed that my art was a gift from God and brought others closer to God...so I learned to use my talents to help others.

I still have to deal with social exclusion based on my race and gender and I have to transcend people who are supposed to be supportive but are usually threatened by me but my mother's early support and encouragement was the foundation behind my activism today.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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360sunsumyea
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653 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 05:59 AM

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5. "wow..."
In response to Reply # 2


          

i think that is some good advice. takin notes.

**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

  

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Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 06:37 AM

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10. "good answers..."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

what are you planning on puttign INTO the child..i.e. attributes, skills, etc...

Red, Black, Green

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 11:16 AM

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45. "RE: good answers..."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

People are facilitators and nurturers for children...I spent my entire childhood rejecting conditioning so why would I want anyone to put anything into me. It was my choice to take in information, gain certain skills and my mother was there to help me do it.

Many people like to see kids as these vessels that need to be filled. Sure, kids need help/support finding their path and acquiring the skills needed to follow the path but they are not empty. For example, when I learned how to walk it was part of a natural progression- from rolling over to sitting up and standing. The next step was walking and my mother was there to be an example to imitate and encourage me. However, if you put me in a room alone I still would have tried to walk.

Also, I am not like my parents but I exhibit many of their attributes. Neither of my parents are artists, noone left home on their own to follow their dream/path, and so on. I was the first. What I acquired as a kid was all the things I mentioned: safety & structure, competency & mastery, etc. Most important, was a feeling of self worth and ability to ascend (overcome adversity). These are the things I want my children to have.

>what are you planning on puttign
>INTO the child..i.e. attributes, skills,
>etc...


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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BooDaah
Charter member
32690 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 05:58 AM

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4. "From ground zero"
In response to Reply # 0


          

A couple of quick thoughts:

1. If you don't HAVE a child (and this includes those who have "practically raised" a brother/sister/cousin/nephew/niece/etc) you honestly can't give much advice. why? see number two.

2. there is no guidebook, nor a particular pattern to follow (referencing what may have worked for someone else, what "professionals" say, and what you thought you would/wouldn't do prior to being in the parental/guardian position). anyone who has been or is there will/should give the following advice: do the best you can with what you have.

finally, it's a whole lot easier to say "i love you" than to show it consistently.

(as i close i realize i probably didn't address the specific questions put forth, but nonetheless this is what came out)

  

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360sunsumyea
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653 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 06:07 AM

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6. "there is nothing like"
In response to Reply # 4


          

becoming a parent, to make you realize just how much you don't know. i have been completely humbled becuase of the experience.

as i think of bits of advice or obaservation, i'll post them.

off the bat, i would say read to them. doesn't really matter what. but you can learn alot about what you're child likes by what books they gravitate towards and which ones they want you to read over and over.

**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

  

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BooDaah
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32690 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 06:15 AM

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7. "my son eats books"
In response to Reply # 6


          


  

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360sunsumyea
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653 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 06:25 AM

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8. "lol!"
In response to Reply # 7


          

my daughter from around 12 mos until not too long ago (she's 2 now), she would gnaw on the spine of all books. i used to get so mad cause she would chew on them like i wasn't feeeding her or something. that was how she broke all her books in. so now we have a rack of books with the spine missing in the middle.

they DID NOT tell me about that in my parenting magazines!

**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

  

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Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 06:28 AM

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9. "Question?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Would you raise your child to be better than you?

i.e. if you knew there was something that you did in your life that was self-admittandly bad, would you try to keep your child away from such? For example, some parents will go outside or away from their child so as to not transmit the idea that it's an "O.K." thing to do.

Would you be able to critique yourself accurately and honestly so that you could teach your child to overcome the pitfalls you may have?

Red, Black, Green

  

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360sunsumyea
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653 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 06:55 AM

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11. "of course i want"
In response to Reply # 9


          

my children to better than me, but how do i do that?
i ask myself that all the time.

as far as something i did that was "self-admittedly bad" - i don't plan to hide that from them. i plan to be honest about my mistakes but also to explain to them what i was thinking, feeling, other people involved in my life...that influenced that decision. and you can only hide your chldren from "bad" things or people for so long. i think it's better to equip them with the necessary tools to survive in the jungle (our world) than it is to hide from them the reality of that jungle in hopes of protecting them.

>Would you be able to critique
>yourself accurately and honestly so
>that you could teach your
>child to overcome the pitfalls
>you may have?

i think so, but i also think it's important to get other people's opinion of you as you were growing up. other people who have known you all your life or even a part of it may have seen things in you that can be helpful in identifying the same traits and tendencies in your child.


**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

  

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Utamaroho
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12. "check it..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

>>my children to better than me, but how do i do that?
i ask myself that all the time.

remember back in the day when all the vegetarian discussions weer going on? one of the answers after it was discussed was that "i just want to eat meat! i know it's bad, but i just want to do it! it's my choice." and that was cool.

my question and interest is: would these same people have their children do something that they KNOW is bad for them? Put another way, "just because YOU are incapable of doing something (not stop eating meat) are you going to subject your child to it?"

in the smoking example, most parents would recognize that smoke is bad for a child's lungs and smoke outside, right?

how would an adult WHO KNOWS eating meat is bad for you, and has accepted the fact that they cannot stop eating it, allow their children the same disservice?

Red, Black, Green

  

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BooDaah
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13. "the power of example"
In response to Reply # 12


          

how do you intimate that something is "bad" to your child if they see you doing it.

do as i say, not as i do?

i've yet to see that work. it undermines ALL credibility on the parents part.

children often DO learn what not to do by counterexample (example - you see your parent die of cancer caused by smoking. that's pretty good incentive not to smoke), but this (imho) puts the onus on the child to learn what they haven't really been taught (per se)

  

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Utamaroho
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14. "true."
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

i pretty much heard someone justifying smoking this morning to another coworker and just applied the vegetarian example.

funny that people will at least TRY to smoke away from the child or at least tell them that smoking and drugs are bad...

...but even if shown, and ACCEPT that meat eating is bad for you, will not even mention the pros and cons.

just an observation.

Red, Black, Green

  

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360sunsumyea
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16. "so are you suggesting"
In response to Reply # 12


          

meat-eater parents who want a healthier diet for their children eat their chicken legs in their bedroom under the covers at night?

as a parent, you are not just raising your child, you are raising a family. your family moves together. i am thinking a child is not gonna understand why you are eating one thing nd they are eating something different. they watch what you do more so than what you say.

anyways, meat-eating specifically is the staus quo. it's not hard to justify as parent feeding your children meat (especially if you limit it to fish and chicken) becasue that what everybody does. it's a lot harder to raise a veggie child, and add to that not knowing what to feed them or how to prepare it, lack of support from family, having them be "different" at daycare/school...i'm not saying it can't be done, it's just that it's not the easiest way to go.

**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

  

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Utamaroho
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19. "in atlanta there are models on how to do this..."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

and incorporate these behavior in your child...a lot of the independent schools here are veggie, and work with parents towards incorporating that into the home...mainly for parents that recognize the health benefits and who want to make the change themselves.

Red, Black, Green

  

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Utamaroho
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15. "Another Question?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

(specifically for abduhu, though anyone can answer)

If you were raised in one faith and changed to another(for whatever reason), will you teach your child the faith you now hold?

If you made a conscious decision to change from one faith to another because you thought it was better. And you knew that your parents were just doing what they were supposed to do (as dictated by scripture) in raising you in that faith; if YOU changed to another religion despite the teachings of your parents (as dictated by scripture) then why would you do the same for your child?

Red, Black, Green

  

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BooDaah
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17. "if i may"
In response to Reply # 15


          

doesn't this go back to a previous discussion about providing guidance, then allowing your child to make their own decision when they are able?

*shrug*

  

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Utamaroho
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18. "WILL YOU BE QUIET?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

:) Damn, can i have some fun first? Geez!

no for real. i've always wondered this, because it goes into the effectiveness of socialization...

walleye said this:

"We can't choose our religion in any strict sense of the word 'choose'. All modern definitions of the term religion revolve around it as part of our environment. In that sense, I can choose my religion about as easily as I can choose which language I speak and my hometown."


...in the other post. some people actually think their ideas are their own and have no idea as to the reality of socialization whatsoever. if one was educated and reared in one way, and decided to change, then ideologically wouldn't it be better to give the child a "choice based" education from the get go?

personally i think people are afraid to let their children "go out" and choose out of fear of them finding something better, or not doing the "God" instructed thing by "raising the child in the way that it should go..."

this also points to another aspect of the "god" concept and its tenets. the fact that transmission from parent to child is initiated from birth and strong (being that the bond of parent/child is strong) a child's mind has no chance (or very little) at deviancy.

the creators of the "god" concept were VERY effective if you ask me.

Red, Black, Green

  

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BooDaah
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20. "personally"
In response to Reply # 18


          

>then ideologically wouldn't it
>be better to give the
>child a "choice based" education
>from the get go?

i don't think you ever remove someone's ability to choose. you can punish AFTER the choice, you can attempt to control the choices (laws and such), but people have a very deep "find a way or make one" streak in them which defies all ability to control if the individual chooses to.

now the issue of what leads a particualr individual to make a particular choice (enviromnment or whatever) makes an interesting convo (many have discussed this at length includeing myself, and people deemed "experts"), but the idea of whether you have "free will" (there goes THAT term again) seems untouchable to me.

  

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Utamaroho
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21. "i wanna see how abduhu answers"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

i feel you on the choice thing though...

however, the first thing that comes to my mind is REALITY.

*if my thoughts were voiced*

"remember we ARE talking about sheep here. the same people who became geneticists after Jurassic Park. to think they REALLY have this thing called "choice" is to deny what i see every sunday as i pass in front of a church watching the same sinners i saw last night in front of 559."

Red, Black, Green

  

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BooDaah
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24. "with all due respect (off topic)"
In response to Reply # 21


          

>"remember we ARE talking about sheep
>here. the same people who
>became geneticists after Jurassic Park.

this is like saying the same people who become network engineers after 2001 or something. wtf?

>to think they REALLY have
>this thing called "choice" is
>to deny what i see
>every sunday as i pass
>in front of a church
>watching the same sinners i
>saw last night in front
>of 559."

similarly, i don't get this either. what does going to church have to do with going to 559 (and what does the combination of tose have to do with choice)? as a matter of fact, if the implication is that they were sinning while IN 559, what better place for them than church (if that's where they feel they can/should go)?


you're on a roll...

(or is that one of those "can you believe someone said something this misguided" type deals)

------QUOTE STARTS HERE------
Sister SheRise's Activist Stew Recipe:
Step1:inform yourself step/Step2:inform others/Step3:discuss the problem/Step4: DISCUSS SOLUTIONS/Step5:EXECUTE SOLUTIONS/Step6:evaluate the results/Step7:start over at 1 until desired result is accomplished.
-----------------------------
"What are we as African Americans? Let's really examine how we are contributing to the projection of our own images of ourselves. What are we really willing to give up? Our integrity? The honor of our community, just for some money? "-Jada

  

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abduhu
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Tue Nov-06-01 08:09 AM

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22. "1 out of 2 aint bad."
In response to Reply # 15


          

>(specifically for abduhu, though anyone can
>answer)
>
>If you were raised in one
>faith and changed to another(for
>whatever reason), will you teach
>your child the faith you
>now hold?

yep.

>If you made a conscious decision
>to change from one faith
>to another because you thought
>it was better. And you
>knew that your parents were
>just doing what they were
>supposed to do (as dictated
>by scripture) in raising you
>in that faith; if YOU
>changed to another religion despite
>the teachings of your parents
>(as dictated by scripture) then
>why would you do the
>same for your child?

rephrase.

reword, using periods, commas, colons, etc....wher they shoud be so i can comprehend what you are saying.

or make the point you are getting at, so i can understand better where you are coming from with it.
___________________________________
Words to ponder over............

3.7 He it is Who has >sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/
___________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

  

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Utamaroho
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23. "ok."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

If your parents raised you to be a Christian, and you decided to become a muslim because you saw that it was better(?)...then why would you raise your child to be a muslim, knowning that there was a point in time when you made a change yourself?

Had you not had the opportunity to choose, or "faculties" to make that "better" choice, you would still be worshipping the Christian "God". And being that you "did" make a change, why not take the knowledge of how things could've turned out (had you stuck w/ christianity) and give your child a foundation where he won't necessarily be directed towards "either" faith, and thus choose his own?

Red, Black, Green

  

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Ape Redwood
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33. "same thing could be said about veganism"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Even if you are convinced veganism is the only healthy way to eat, do you show your kids different diets let them choose for themselves, as you yourself probably did?


---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 10:16 AM

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34. "yes."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

like i told glove, i plan on feeding my kid vegan, and then introducing poisoned meat that will give him/her a cold or hives or something so that there will be a psychological aversion to meat. as a baby i will hold a steack or chicken wing above him and crash some cymbals as he tries to reach for it. it's called brainwashing people. hellooooowwwww...

Red, Black, Green

  

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Ape Redwood
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74. "haha"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

Im not sure if you're joking though.

---------
Alex

Everything's OK.


---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

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abduhu
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Tue Nov-06-01 07:30 PM

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83. "an answer, insha'allah."
In response to Reply # 23


          

>If your parents raised you to
>be a Christian, and you
>decided to become a muslim
>because you saw that it
>was better(?)...then why would you
>raise your child to be
>a muslim, knowning that there
>was a point in time
>when you made a change
>yourself?

b/c:
1. i see that being a muslim is better way to be
2. what i DID, has nothing to do with what he/she WILL DO.
3. the change i made was made manifest by my own personal situation, that he/she will never have to be exposed to or go through, insha'allah, and therefore has no ramifications on his/her future choices.
4. i would want to make the path as smooth as can be, so they wont have to go through what i went through.

the thing i think you are missing, is that raisng a child in said manner, will not take away their ability to make choices, when they are no longer children.
it might sway them, but they will have the ability to sway back, if they want to, nonetheless.

>Had you not had the opportunity
>to choose, or "faculties" to
>make that "better" choice, you
>would still be worshipping the
>Christian "God". And being that
>you "did" make a change,
>why not take the knowledge
>of how things could've turned
>out (had you stuck w/
>christianity) and give your child
>a foundation where he won't
>necessarily be directed towards "either"
>faith, and thus choose his
>own?

b/c that is a buddhist way of doing things, and im not buddhist.

you approaching a muslims situation from a buddhist perspective, is like me trying to answer question 1&2 from a muslims perspective.

i will definitely give him/her a foundation in islam, b/c that is a right of them and an obligation of mine. and when they reach the age of "responsiblity", they will determine their own course, and i will be free of their choice and the consequences of their choice, insha'allah.

and without me going into any details about my "chrisian" life to them, he/she will have knowledge (what matters anyway) about my previous way and through their foundation of islam.

whatever is benefcial of dunya (worldly) knowledge, they will get it. my goal is to make the path as smooth as i can make it. sure i want them to learn from their mistakes, but i would rather have them make no mistakes to learn from. but alas, humans will be humans.

and if they dont know anything else, theyll know toyotas are better cars than american cars, thats for sure.

but if they still wanna get a dodge..............
___________________________________
Words to ponder over............

3.7 He it is Who has >sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/
___________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

  

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bmig

Thu Nov-08-01 09:25 AM

  
132. "RE: ok."
In response to Reply # 23


          

>If your parents raised you to
>be a Christian, and you
>decided to become a muslim
>because you saw that it
>was better(?)...then why would you
>raise your child to be
>a muslim, knowning that there
>was a point in time
>when you made a change
>yourself?
I am expecting my first child now, and this is a question that I have most definitely considered...I was raised Christian, and currently ascribe to no particular religion, although I have a close relationship and hold a deep reverence for the Creator. The way that I arrived at my own personal conclusion is from (I believe) my upbringing as a Christian. Easter, Xmas, Communion, Baptism, and other Christian rituals were all a part of my upbrining. As I got older, I started to explore and investigate other faiths, and by the time I came out of college, I had a completely different understanding and stronger relationship with the Divine than I've ever had. Were it not for my questioning what my parents believed, I would have never been able to see what I see now. And even though we argued about our separate beliefs, it only made my faith stronger. However, the one thing I would do differently from my parents this time around would be to allow and support my child's efforts to investigate and get closer to GOD as they get older. The Christian foundation is good, but to me it only serves as a template for understanding the "concept" of GOD. Being fearful of God, the threat of eternal hell, white jesus, etc... I will do without. But the basic blueprint is a good launching pad for the novice--as he/she gets older I would love to have a conversation with my child about new discoveries, theories, and questions that they may have, because I think it will only bring us closer. Shit, I'm still learning myself!






  

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SoWhat
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Tue Nov-06-01 09:01 AM

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25. "I'm sending my kids to church."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Well, I should say...I'm going to find a church we can attend together. One that will give them all the good stuff that comes w/going to church, and a minimal amount of the bad stuff. (I can always deprogram them after we get home).

Why? B/c there's lots of wonderful things going on in churches. Lots of Afr-American traditions are learned there...our culture is in there. Plus, good churches foster a great sense of community or family. I don't want my kids to miss out on that. Churches also do a pretty good job of reinforcing the idea that there is Right and Wrong in this world. It's important that the kids get some other sources backing up what I teach them at home about morality & ethics. (Like I said, I can always deprogram them when we get home if they pick up some nonsense.)

There's good stuff to be had in church. It's all about finding the RIGHT one.
___________

HotThyng76 is gone.

fuck you.

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 09:17 AM

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27. "me too."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

...sending my kids to church.

Red, Black, Green

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Nov-06-01 09:27 AM

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29. "I shouldn't say "sending""
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

b/c I'm going w/mine.

fuck you.

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 09:50 AM

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31. "me too..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

i'll be right there singing "I've got that joy, joy, joy ,joy down in my heart...!"

Red, Black, Green

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Nov-06-01 10:16 AM

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35. "The choirs"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

are a big part of the reason I want to go to church w/my kids.

Hopefully there'll be one of those hot, jumping choirs.

fuck you.

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 10:19 AM

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36. "i'm gving my kid the catholic experience"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

i like those choirs better...for some reason, the jumping kind remind me of itching monkeys.

Red, Black, Green

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Nov-06-01 10:21 AM

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38. "If it was good for you."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

I want my kids to go to church b/c I feel it was good for me. If Catholic church was good for you, then go for it.

fuck you.

  

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Utamaroho
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39. "i didn't go to church..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

or at least i blocked it out...but a catholic experience seemed the most interesting to me. either that, or the vegetarian 7th day adventists.

Red, Black, Green

  

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SoWhat
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40. "Well, whatever floats your boat."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          


fuck you.

  

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LexM
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Wed Nov-07-01 05:24 AM

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90. "ugh"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

the singing is part of the reasons i am NEVER going back to a lutheran church *shudder*

if i do go back to church, it'll be one with a sangin' choir...i'd like to clap my hands & stomp my feet a little or somethin, damn...

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

"i abound with shelectricity..." ~~ursula rucker

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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LexM
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89. "good point"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

while i was always glad my mom kind of pulled us out of church early and said that we could make our own decisions about it, i always wished i had a "church family" like so many of my friends seemed to...

i'm still deciding on that one...

i do want to teach my kids how to meditate. i was exposed to it at a young age, and i think it can be very beneficial.

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

"i abound with shelectricity..." ~~ursula rucker

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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somoney
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Tue Nov-06-01 09:04 AM

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26. "gosh, well..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i started with a name. my daughter's name is theory sera.
theory as in: a system of assumptions, accepted principles and/or rules of procedure devised to analyze, predict or explain a set of phenomena. (theory is also a cool clothing line, so the name is deep yet ghetto. j/k) sera as in: seraphim, the angel, the highest class of celestial being... and my grandmother's name was sarah. obviously, i believe in names having "power" or "energy." i mostly believe this based on observation coupled with all that zodiac stuff...

when my daughter was born, i was so surprised that she looked just like me. it's so interesting to see... you wait nine months, imagining what your child is going to look like... everyone says newborns are funny looking, but when she/he's yours, it's just wow.

on health:
women must understand how important it is to "eat right" and "take care" while pregnant. your baby can be born perfectly healthy and bright, but fives years later, have learning problems (one example) as a result of what you did/did not eat, chemicals you exposed yourself to, high stress levels... of course one can do everything "right" and face such problems, but the point is to be aware. women should also know/understand the benefits of breastfeeding before deciding against it.

as far as the child's diet, i think children need to be exposed to a variety of foods including meat and dairy from ages 1 to 5, esp. for determining allergies. some children will just naturally shy away from meat. if you are a meat eater, and want your child not to eat meat to be healthier than you, you need to stop eating meat. your health as a parent is important as well, denying your health could lead to denying your child a parent... as with smoking and so on...

on talent and education:
every parent should see her/his child as and individual, from birth. as you watch your child grow, you will see she has a knack for some things... of course you want her to be well rounded, but if you see a knack developing into a talent, help your child nurture that talent. buy books and materials specifically related to the things you see your child has a long term interest in. even toys, you can tailor toys to your child's interest instead of just buying the standard truck and barbie... (maybe this instead of barbie: http://www.estyle.com/common/dProductDetail.asp?PMId=8742&SIND=2&frm=1&cmCL=artscrafts&cmPG=ktoys&cmDM=10)

when your child begins school, use your child's talents to help her learn and understand concepts she is having trouble with. i also believe in the different kinds of smarts - like visually smart, verbally smart, emotionally smart, tech smart... no child is "stupid." stupidity seems to be a learned condition...

i guess that's all i have for now...

  

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Utamaroho
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28. "thanks..."
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

i like your daughter's name too. cool.

Red, Black, Green

  

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somoney
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Tue Nov-06-01 11:22 AM

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46. "on religion:"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

i actually bought this cartoonish book called "how to talk to your child about god." it has all these biblical quotes, explanations and such... i was reared as a christian, sent to church with others, though my mom didn't really go. and when i was old enough to decide the christian life was not for me, my mother's husband MADE me go to church thinking that would curb any sexual thoughts i was having. but southern baptist churches are full of sex! the preacher, if not the choir director, is sleeping with "everyone." the men always want to give you a hello/goodbye hug that lasts way too long... the women wear subtly revealing outfits, and i swear they "get happy" just to expose a breast. wildness. my younger brothers were not required/forced to go to church, knew nothing of the bible... then their school friends started telling them they needed to be saved... they started going to church and enjoyed all the "social" aspects. they went on retreats and such, started preaching the word to me even... i was like please, this church thing is just a phase. and it was...

so i'm saying, i just want to speak with some knowledge on christianity because i have to assume my daughter will be exposed to christian thinking. i can't remember anything "taught" in church, except for psalms... see i don't remember... it's the for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son passage. *shrugs*(© boodaah)

hopefully, i can approach all religions from a historic pov without relying on pure faith...

  

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Dreadstar

Tue Nov-06-01 09:44 AM

  
30. "RE: Let's have a baby!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

A few quick thoughts: my child will have a name with relevant meaning like my parents gave me; my child will have dreadlocks; no baby talk; great emphasis on education; i won't be too strict; no fast food or any other nasty food; will have to follow me to sporting events and will have to share hatred for the Utah Jazz, Arsenal and Leeds United; will be brought up to be proud of his/her black ass; i will be more physically caring than my father was/is but still the crazy, funny mofo that he is though. Thats all i think (I hope I have a daughter though, when the time comes, knock on wood)

---------------------------------------
I hate the smell of beadies
and you have a bunch of dinky friends, and a adolescent staff...
You are immature

Kool Keith "Backstage Passes"

  

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Utamaroho
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32. "RE: Let's have a baby!"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>>will have to follow me to sporting events and will have to share hatred for the Utah Jazz

WORD!!!

also: what about T.V. ?

Red, Black, Green

  

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Dreadstar

Tue Nov-06-01 12:58 PM

  
68. "RE: Let's have a baby!"
In response to Reply # 32


          

I'll be more liberal with TV cuz frankly I grew up on the idiot box, but I would try assert some control over what they watch. No TV in any bedrooms though (not even mine).

---------------------------------------
I hate the smell of beadies
and you have a bunch of dinky friends, and a adolescent staff...
You are immature

Kool Keith "Backstage Passes"

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Nov-06-01 10:20 AM

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37. "Baby talk."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I remember reading somewhere that baby talk is actually good for the pre-literate child's learning. Once they begin speaking the baby talk should stop.

fuck you.

  

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Dreadstar

Tue Nov-06-01 01:03 PM

  
70. "RE: Baby talk."
In response to Reply # 37


          

If that's really the case I guess I will have to change, but I would rather read socialist manifestos to my child in a goofy voice than do all that 'goo goo ga ga' mess, nah mean.

---------------------------------------
I hate the smell of beadies
and you have a bunch of dinky friends, and a adolescent staff...
You are immature

Kool Keith "Backstage Passes"

  

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SoWhat
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75. "Go for it."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

The point is to speak real words in a slow manner. Draw out the vowels & strong consonant sounds.

Say: Mmmmaaaaaaaaaa-rrrx. and repeat it a few times.

fuck you.

  

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Dreadstar

Tue Nov-06-01 11:53 PM

  
85. "RE: Go for it."
In response to Reply # 75


          

ca-pi-ta-liiii-zim baaaaaaad, good baby


---------------------------------------
I hate the smell of beadies
and you have a bunch of dinky friends, and a adolescent staff...
You are immature

Kool Keith "Backstage Passes"

  

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el_rey
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5626 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 10:39 AM

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41. "ZAMI"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My daughter Zami just turned 14 months old (I don't know if anyone here remembers when she was first born, our picture was on the News page the next day or so). She is growing so fast and smart as any 3 year old I've ever met!

Being new to this childraising thing, I'll share with you some of my partner and my ideas/practices in raising her:

First and foremost, she is our little friend. We give her the love and respect that we would give to our best friends. She sees us as her buddies as well. She is very affectionate and expressive and we try to reflect that to her in our interactions with each other and her.

She has been given a steady diet of breast milk and organic vegetarian foods. Sheeet, when I think of all the shit I ate as a kid (Twinkies, sneakin' Fruit Loops at my Grandma's etc) she is so far ahead of the game in terms of health, and she reflects that accordingly. She is the healthiest kid I've ever seen .. full of life and joy. We also haven't vaccinated her as we consider these substances poisons 9 not to mention the cause of many diseases that we're seeing today). If there's an out break of anything serious, we may reconsider this (and this goes for just about everything. We are not purists by any streach of the imagination, but we try to remain conscious of the truths that we are presented with).

We let her explore her world, which she takes advantage of. She is wildly explorative and inquisative. We sure nuff let her know when she's in danger and explain what that's all about, but we try not to stifle her natural inquisitiveness. We want more than anything for her to know freedom.

Although she is technically "biracial (African, Cherokee, French, British to be more exact), we will let her know of the cultures from which she comes, but pretty much identify her as black ... but black in the most broad understanding of that word (like how in England all people of color:Jamaicans, South Asians etc identify as "black" in a positive, empowered way). She has good relationships with all her family, but we generally move in circles that are dominated by people of color.

She is alraedy a fantastic drummer, dancer and singer. She knows of the world of the spirit (perhaps more than we do) and has joined us in our extended espiritual family/practice.

Names are important too, and she is named for Audre Lorde (Her auto-mythography is called Zami: A New Spelling of My Name). Zami (our daughter) is smart as a whip, already a critical thinker, and highly willful. We subtlly encourage rebelliousness in her, knowing that it will come to haunt us one day, but also know that she'll thank us for it one day ...

love and respect,
El Rey

dedicated to preserving and sharing
the music, dance and stories of the
African diasporic experience:
http://www.wemba-music.org

SUPPORT GOOD MUSIC:
http://www.mp3.com/Esthetics

"Yo he preferido hablar a cosas
imposibles, porque de lo posible se
sabe demasiado." -- Silvio Rodriguez

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 10:52 AM

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42. "word!"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

that's what i'm talkin' about!

Red, Black, Green

  

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el_rey
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:57 PM

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67. "Zami's the coolest person I know"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

I'm going to do everything I can to do right by her till the day I die.

About the schooling question ... I dunno yet. To me homeschooling is the lojical thing to do, and we know plenty of people who have gone that route. I guess we'll crocc that bridge when we come to it.. We're toying with the idea of leaving the country (and getting that second/third .. language issue happening) so i don't know what it will all mean in another context like that.

We'll see. Untill then, we'll just keep giving her all the love and respect she deserves.

Don't sleep on the next generation fam. They're here.

love and respect,
El Rey

dedicated to preserving and sharing
the music, dance and stories of the
African diasporic experience:
http://www.wemba-music.org

SUPPORT GOOD MUSIC:
http://www.mp3.com/Esthetics

"Yo he preferido hablar a cosas
imposibles, porque de lo posible se
sabe demasiado." -- Silvio Rodriguez

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
who are you









really

  

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360sunsumyea
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Tue Nov-06-01 11:12 AM

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44. "tight...n/m"
In response to Reply # 41


          

**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

  

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somoney
Charter member
2247 posts
Tue Nov-06-01 11:28 AM

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47. "what about school..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>She has been given a steady
>diet of breast milk and
>organic vegetarian foods. (that's why she's smart...)

>We also haven't vaccinated her
>as we consider these substances
>poisons 9 not to mention
>the cause of many diseases
>that we're seeing today). If
>there's an out break of
>anything serious, we may reconsider
>this (and this goes for
>just about everything. We are
>not purists by any streach
>of the imagination, but we
>try to remain conscious of
>the truths that we are
>presented with).

are you going to home school her? i couldn't even get my daughter into day care with her vaccinations... sucks...

  

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360sunsumyea
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Tue Nov-06-01 11:36 AM

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48. "they can enroll w/o"
In response to Reply # 47


          

vaccinations. there's a form and you can check 'religious reasons' or something like that and sign it.


**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

  

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somoney
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2247 posts
Wed Nov-07-01 07:18 AM

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102. "also"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

this reminds me of how lisa bonet and lenny kravitz raised zoe... i'm curious to see how she "turns out."

  

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the2ndsurvivor
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Tue Nov-06-01 10:55 AM

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43. "just want him/her 2 b happy"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'll probably raise my kid(s) the same way my mom and dad raised me. That's all I know and I'm happy with the job they did. They didn't have a whole lot of extra time for me and my sis but the time we did share was well-used. We always had (and still do when possible) dinner together, my mom and dad always checked and re-checked our homework, my dad never leaves the house for work without waking us up for a kiss on the cheek and a quick I love you. They really let me enjoy being a kid. Didn't try to push too hard or take the fun out of everything. The only thing I would do in addition to all of that is expose my child(ren) to more diverse cultures and allow them the freedom to develop in other ways besides intellectually. My parents would have loved to do a lot more for me and my sis but money and time were big issues so we just made due with what we had. The thing I most appreciate about my mom and dad is their honesty. I've never been afraid to talk to them about anything. The role of parent and child is very clear, but, they are also my two best friends. They never tried to make it seem like they've been perfect their entire life and that I was the first person in the world to do this or to want to try that. So, I wouldn't change from what I know, I'd just take it to another level since I'm anticipating that I'll have the resources to do so.

...if I were a superhero, I'd be Had-It-Up-to-Here Woman, sneaking around grocery stores, malls, and amusement parks all over the world. With lightning speed, I'd snatch up bad azz kids and give them three swift licks with my golden switch and vanish into thin air before anyone knew what happened...

Pet Peeve of the Month:

People who call your house with the wrong number. If you call for Mike and I say Mike doesn't live here, don't say "but isn't this his number" or "but didn't I dial XXX-XXXX" because I will tell you no. No, it's not his number. If it was I would let you speak to him. And don't hang up and have your friend call 2 minutes later. I'll say, "Hey, I hear your friend in the background. I just told him(her) that Mike doesn't live here."

Look over to your left...yeah, up in the corner. As a suggestion, you may want to take two.

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 11:56 AM

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49. "how will t.v. fit into the picture?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

?

Red, Black, Green

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:06 PM

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50. "Very little TV. As little as possible."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

Unfortunately, TV is one of those things kids pick up from other kids and then bring home. I hope and pray I can keep my kids away from crap like those awful Disney videos/DVDs & Nickelodeon and shit. (Just like at age 6 I learned about Santa from other kids and asked my mother about him. She'd never ever mentioned him to me before...but I was so convinced he was real she played into it for 2 years.)

fuck you.

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:14 PM

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51. "santa?"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

for real? damn. i'll use t.v. as a teaching tool come jr. high school. until then i'll be recording and collecting educationaltapes on stuff...discovery channel/history channel/etc.

Red, Black, Green

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:22 PM

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52. "Entertainment."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

I don't want to deny my kids the joy of entertainment. But I don't want them to become zombies either.

I think my mother did a good job w/me on that score. She let me watch TV, but it was never my babysitter. My TV time was very limited. I did more playing in the sandbox on the playground and exploration of my neighborhood than TV watching.

fuck you.

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:26 PM

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54. "i know i will hav my children watching wholesome shows..."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

i plan on getting the whole collection of some shows:

(don't laugh, i'm serious)

Little House on the Prairie. (pre-teen)

Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman. (high school)

Captain Planet cartoon series. (young)

Cosby Show. (jr. high)

A Different World (when he/she reaches the high school level)

Red, Black, Green

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:27 PM

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55. "oh yeah..."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

the entire series of saturday night live!

Red, Black, Green

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:28 PM

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56. "group activities?"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

what type of social activities are good learnign experiences to have? which ones would you do wothout?

Red, Black, Green

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:47 PM

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59. "I dunno."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

I don't want to shield them from the good character building stuff that happens on the playground and at recess and on play-dates.

Most likely I'll just find (or create) a group of kids whose parents I trust and let kids play together. I can't control what happens when they're in group situations, and I don't want to.

fuck you.

  

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the2ndsurvivor
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:53 PM

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62. "group/social activities"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

children's museums are good
have theme parties or find a nice bookstore that has a storytelling hour
take a group of kids out to lunch on a saturday afternoon
go to the zoo

just make sure it's something that the kids can get up and move around with or something that'll keep them interested

...if I were a superhero, I'd be Had-It-Up-to-Here Woman, sneaking around grocery stores, malls, and amusement parks all over the world. With lightning speed, I'd snatch up bad azz kids and give them three swift licks with my golden switch and vanish into thin air before anyone knew what happened...

Pet Peeve of the Month:

People who call your house with the wrong number. If you call for Mike and I say Mike doesn't live here, don't say "but isn't this his number" or "but didn't I dial XXX-XXXX" because I will tell you no. No, it's not his number. If it was I would let you speak to him. And don't hang up and have your friend call 2 minutes later. I'll say, "Hey, I hear your friend in the background. I just told him(her) that Mike doesn't live here."

Look over to your left...yeah, up in the corner. As a suggestion, you may want to take two.

  

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masani

Tue Nov-06-01 12:53 PM

  
61. "RE: santa?"
In response to Reply # 51


          

My daughter: Nobantu Zenzele Akili, is now 8, in the 4th grade, a vegetarian and former lock-wearer. At 8 she is just now really starting to see herself as different than the norm from having 2 parents in a loving committed relationship together and with her to her African-centered life-style. There are questions, struggles and I've (we've) determined to pick and choose our battles: tired of locks? OK, Eat meat, no. Tired of piano lessons? fine. Watch anything but educational t.v. during the week and then only for an hour? NO. From Friday to Sunday, you can watch cartoons, the WB, what ever. We will watch and laugh and critique together.

As far as religion, well I'm teaching her acceptance of different religions/spiritual systems/world views.(I hate the word tolerance, it sounds like you don't really like the shit but you'll tolerate it.) She goes to church with Grandma sometimes and like someone said, the Black church (Baptist or Catholic)is a hotbed of Black culture. It's like the beauty shop or barber shop. I'll take her to get her hair washed and conditioned there just for the culture, you know? She knows I'm not Christian or Muslium but I'm still trying to find a religion that fits my personal view of God. The closest I've come is Earthseed with out the space travel(read Octavia Butler's Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents).

In the end, you gotta love em, respect em, encourage them and raise em to be free open honest thinkers lovers, planners, builders.

  

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kemetian
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Wed Nov-07-01 08:01 AM

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106. "Looking 4 a Religion?"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

Yimhotep

being that psychological location is 15 bajillion times more important than physical location, i think u should find what spiritual system u "lean" towards. this will probably come from whatever your lineage is, i guess u and your wife, not just u, then both of u can decide on what u will practise (Yoruba, Akan, etc.) for some Kemetic spirituality is the way to go and since most African Spiritual Systems are Maat-based anyway u can't go wrong, so whether u want to call the Divine Forces Orisa or Neteru it's all good. u can find out your respective lineages from a trained person.

it is important that we are located not in the Arabia or in China or in Europe but @ Home, so while we can draw on the positive aspects from any "religion" it is important that our center be @ Home.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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masani

Wed Nov-07-01 08:56 AM

  
109. "RE: Looking 4 a Religion?"
In response to Reply # 106


          

Thanks for the feedback. I've always "leaned" toward West African religions-We were married in a totally Yoruba ceremony- everyone including our southern baptist family elders wore Afican clothing out in the rose garden palm wine, babalawo and all. Maybe later in life I'll go all the way with that one,for now I'm forever searching... and actually learning so much about the whole world along the way.

  

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LexM
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Wed Nov-07-01 05:13 AM

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86. "ditto..."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

I think it's good that they get some exposure to tv and what it's saying (just so they can get a handle on what other people are seeing), but it's equally important to watch WITH them so you can explain and diffuse what they're seeing.

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

"i abound with shelectricity..." ~~ursula rucker

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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somoney
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:23 PM

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53. "subjective?"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

my youngest brother and i watch a lot of tv... but my other brother watches little if any, he has "other interests." you know, he actually reads books (j/k), listens to music, sits with his "thoughts."

i think children watch a lot of tv when it seems their "entertainment" options are limited. my daughter (11 months) is only interested in car commercials, and the occasional pop video. also - and esp. - the commercial for foxwoods casino...

i grew up on sesame street, little house on the prairie, the waltons, and of course the young and the restless... but then fox network came to chester... channel 5... spiderman and married with children...

  

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pey
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57. "although this would be a long time from now..."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

i'd prefer that my children watched as little tv as possible.
i know that when i was a child i learned so much more from running around in the forests, mountains and nature than i did from tv.
when i came home from school or daycare i'd leave my bags at the frontdoor and disappear into the wilderness till i got hungry.
i'd go alone or with a friend.
explore and learn.
i want my children to have that opportunity.
i don't want them to be sitting in front of cartoon network for five hours a day...
now a limited amount of tv with good quality (which is relatively rare) would be positive, but on the whole it would be as little tv-watching as possible.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ain't no blood in my body,:
it's liquid soul in my veins :

  

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Utamaroho
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58. "me too..."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

i spent a LOT of times imagining and playing int he woods...

like 6 hours a day walking through the woods with my cousin...

Red, Black, Green

  

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somoney
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65. "the woods?"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

man, i grew up in the country... was plagued by super mosquito bites, caterpillar nests all over my swing set, digestive problems do to actually eating the mud pies i made... but it was "the life."

then one day, while running through the woods, i ran into a spider's web; was distressed for a minute, but carried on... the next morning as i was brushing my teeth, this big ass spider slowly lowered itself from my hair. i was mortified! really... it spent all night in my hair?!! my love of the outdoors slowly dwindled after that... been scared of spiders even since, too.

but that air is so good for you, for your skin... i want to take my daughter back, but i can't shake my urban attitudes. i ruined our last trip to the park because i panicked over yellow jackets attracted to our lunch...

damn nature...

  

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Brandard
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141. "no TV"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

[]
my family used to share a house with another family they had a son the same age as myself. we've stayed close to the family up to this very day and looking back i really see how TV affected me in a negative way

the other family didnt watch TV.

mine did.

and i think it just forced them to do more with their time, reading, paying musical instruments, art(their daughter was an amazing artist).

basically looking back i had wished i had done those things instead of gaining an impressive knowledge of Saved By The Bell.

and of course no tv means no tv, for me and the kids


Giving You True Lesson Moderation Since'03
******

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:49 PM

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60. "something else:"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

inspired by pey:

journeying through the woods and showing a child nature first hand. zzos and nature trails are cool, but i can't imagine where my adventurous spirit would be right now if i hadn't had an aunt that used to walk me and my cousin through the woods pointing out plants and their uses.

which brings up this point: learn alongside your child. if you don't know about plants or herbs and their uses, getting a book and finding out together out in the woods while exploring would be beneficial.

actually "growing" or "using" those herbs...and having them around would at least familiarize the child with them. imagine growing 10 herbs in a windowsill garden and the child growing up around them...recognizing the smells, memorizing what they look like, teaching them the names. and then imagine using those herbs on the child for ailments. that child would have a big advantage over the "over the counter" kids, healthwise and knowledge-wise. s/he would be able to then see the relationship between the earth, and him/herself in the healing process...

just a thought.

Red, Black, Green

  

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SoWhat
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63. "You know what?"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

Everytime I picture myself w/a son, I picture our first trip to the beach together. I want to watch him observe the ocean for the 1st time. I wonder if he'll feel the same way as I do about it.

I'll gladly take him on all sorts of nature explorations. That's gonna be the best part of being a father.

My mother used to take me to the woods all the time.

fuck you.

  

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Utamaroho
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66. "sadly i've never seen the ocean yet!"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

but will...hopefully before having a child too!

i'd want to experience many of those "spectacular" moments with him/her...that'd be cool.

btw: i was thinking about your mom recently, wanted you to ask her something about the whole vegan thing and her transitions...i'll get back at it later, gotta jet.

Red, Black, Green

  

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Ape Redwood
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76. "NEVER SEEN THE OCEAN?"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

F'real? If you ever get up to the Northeast, gimme a call and we'll roll.


---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

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Brandard
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151. "find a shallow stream"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

[]
give the kid an aquarium net and let him/her go wild. i think my entire childhood was spent knee deep in water trying to catch a minnow or a crayfish

Giving You True Lesson Moderation Since'03
******

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M2
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:56 PM

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64. "Equip"
In response to Reply # 0


          


#1. Equip your children with the ability to go out in the world, make their OWN decisions and choose their OWN path. E.g. There is a difference between educating somone and teaching them right from wrong, and teaching them to only live life (and that the only acceptable way of life) is the one you define.

E.g. Families that do things like: Defining who their kids should marry, what jobs they should have, conditioning in political affiliations, political views, religion, etc.

It's alright to teach a child your beliefs, but don't lead them to belive YOUR way is the only way and that they have no right to question and seek answers/ideologies elsewhere.



#2. Know when to treat your children like Adults and when to treat them like Children. I've been reading encylopedia's, the newspaper and what not since I was 4/5, because that's what my parents used to teach me how to read (My Father found a lot of the books for teaching young children to read "Boorish & Fatuous"). They also talked to me like an adult if I asked them how the car/tv/radio worked........BUT they still understood that I needed kid things/toys/activities.

Ya' Dig?





Peace,





M2

The Blog: http://www.analyticalwealth.com/

An assassin’s life is never easy. Still, it beats being an assassin’s target.

Enjoy your money, but live below your means, lest you become a 70-yr old Wal-Mart Greeter.

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 12:59 PM

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69. "i used to read encyclopedias too..."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

i will DEFINITELY have a set around my child...

they're soooooo interesting...i remember spending hours on the "H" volume just for the flip through of the transparent human system pages...that was sooo cool to me then...i must've memorized each system!

books. books. books.

also, reading in front of the child so that they can see your examople...

Red, Black, Green

  

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SoWhat
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71. "I read encyclopedias, too."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

Beginning around age 10 I used to spend hours in the library reading encyclopedias (any library...school, public, university, whatever). I finally got my own set when I was 13.

fuck you.

  

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SoWhat
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72. "The first thing I learned to read"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

was the newspaper. This was when I was either 1 or 2 yrs old. I used to read it w/my parents everyday. I started b/c I liked the ads for Kroger. I'd point out all the different foods and name them.
___________

HotThyng76 is gone.

fuck you.

  

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LexM
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87. "I forgot it all"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

:)

and all the Greek mythology I used to read...

but every now and again some useless bit of info will pop up in my mind & i'll attribute it to some childhood encyclopedia reading lol

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

"i abound with shelectricity..." ~~ursula rucker

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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SoWhat
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96. "Same here."
In response to Reply # 87


  

          


fuck you.

  

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pey
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Tue Nov-06-01 01:26 PM

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73. "reading is definately important...."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

i first started reading when i was four...
i hid newspapers and books from my parents because they didn't think i was ready for those things (politics, world issues and such)
but it helped me understand alot of things...
encyclopedias too.
also childrens books that have educational value. as with tv there's a whole bunch of childrens books that completely suck...
try to weed out those.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ain't no blood in my body,:
it's liquid soul in my veins :

  

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LexM
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Wed Nov-07-01 05:18 AM

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88. "about kids' books..."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

yeah, some of them are crappy...but at the same time (as most teachers will tell you), it often doesn't matter what a child reads as long as they're READING.

I would try to get my child to understand the silliness of something if I thought it was important, but otherwise, I say let them read what they like so they develop a love for it.

_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

"i abound with shelectricity..." ~~ursula rucker

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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Ape Redwood
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77. "Mentioned before, but"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Learning WITH your child is very important. Shows them the joy of learning by example, and shows that they are equal with you in some ways: you can be as ignorant as them or even more so on certain topics. Me and my dad learned about astronomy and paleontology (I was obsessed with dinosaurs) together. Those memories are wonderful to this day, I still remember what we learned.

Diversity is also important. I plan on exposung my child to a wide variety of music, books, places, languages, foods, sports, areas of knowledge, books, activities, etc. This helps them adapt to new environments (very important life skill), become more openminded, and show them that one lifestyle/mindstate/wolrdview/diet/religion/music/culture/etc. is not THE only way.


---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 05:06 PM

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79. "RE: Mentioned before, but"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

>>I plan on exposung my child to a wide variety of music, books, places, languages, foods, sports, areas of knowledge, books, activities, etc.

good addition. some of the best parents say that setting the example for the child to see/ mimick is important.

learning "with" a child is cool, cuz it desubordinates a child's intelligence and gives him/her a sense of equality with an adult which can only help improve confidence and self-esteem.\

good points.

Red, Black, Green

  

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Federisco
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78. "RE: Let's have a baby!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ive been looking forward to this post for a long time! This topic.. i knew it would come. But the day it came i was out of the house the whole day! whish i could have joined in sooner... but others have said much of what's on my mind already

The thing i remember the most was the freedoms, me and my brother's childhood was full of freedoms! (When friends visited us they weren't used to the freedoms, so they acted all wild and strange. A strange phenomenon...) When we got a TV it put the creativity to sleep My parents did the mistake of giving us the same freedom to watch TV as to play and use our fantasy. When we got a PC the creativity was moved over to that box, unfortunally?

But i'll always remember when my parents took us places. A park, or the countriside, or any downtown happening..... We did art exhibitions, children's day at the center for african culture (heheh no KMT back then thou), "open house" at art schools, museums, flee markets, children's plays, sport competitions, concerts, even a dancing school..

That is what is most important (besides the obvious "honest love" and "calm human environment").. experiencing together and teaching and learning together

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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Ape Redwood
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Tue Nov-06-01 05:51 PM

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80. "Morals vs. Your Own Path"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ok. We've all mentioned how we should not just indoctrinate our kids--we should show various paths and let them choose there own. But aren't their some paths that they should never follow, even once? Arent there certain universal morals that MUST be indoctrinated into your child at a young age? They can figure them out themselves later. Certain things are plainly WRONG: murder, rape, theivery, etc. There are no ifs ands or buts here. The child must learn that these things are wrong immediately, as not learning them and following the other path is not acceptable under any circumstances. No controversy there. But, if we take this thought a step further---what are absolut RIGHTS and WRONGS----what are morals? A Muslim may feel that the teaching their child to submit to Allah is just as important and vital as teachinng them that murder is wrong. A vegan may see eating animals as a murder and thus an unacceptable moral act. Where is the balance between letting our child walk the path and indoctrinating them with "absolute"/""universal" or "indisputable" morals?

---------
Alex

Everything's OK.


---------------------
Thursday, June 17th
Dujeous @ Bowery Ballroom
6 Delancey Street (at Bowery)
w/Addison Groove Project &
Gutbucket
10PM~$13
DUJEOUS debut LP "CITY
LIMITS" INSTOSNOW.
Buy my shit.

  

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Utamaroho
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Tue Nov-06-01 06:01 PM

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81. "good question:"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

i'll ask some parents that i think have done a good job...

i think a good foundation should be established and then "letting" go, so to speak.sort of like the bow and arrow example i gave in the first response...

personally though: i suspect myself to be a totalitarian parent. a dictator of sorts. but that's me now, i will probably change depending on some examples i see. one of my mentors is along hte "raising a warrior" mentality and did a good job with his daughter, i'll consult him.

Red, Black, Green

  

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Nettrice
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Tue Nov-06-01 06:31 PM

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82. "RE: Morals vs. Your Own Path"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

I was raised to think that morals were for morons but that's a bit strong. The system/society/civilization requires a bunch of rules and procedures to be learned and obeyed. Children are domesticated to police themselves to mold their character into one of virtue. Many children are taught to be judges and they learn to suppress of their feelings and denial of their true selves in order to maintain the status quo. By focusing on externals, judging and allowing others to judge them at the expense of their own integrity.

A child or activist does not need morals, rules or precepts other than to respect all life as much as their own, to respect their own life as if it were the universe, to help and heal themselves and others whenever they can, and inflict minimum damage on others in their relationships.

No matter what children are going to be domesticated but I plan to domesticate my children to not believe other people's opinions, and listen to their own truth so they can reject all the other b.s. later.

The only time I was punished was for being dishonest. Integrity was very important but I was encouraged to realize my own path and build my own inner principles and move with my true nature...I'll teach my children to be authentic so that all their thoughts and actions towards themselves and others is true or life affirming.

Murder, thievery, etc. are all things that children can be conditioned to believe is necessary but I've never heard anyone say it's right. It's never right- it just is. Giving kids alternatives and putting their attention on the truth is key, as well as helping them to understand cause and effect.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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abduhu
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Tue Nov-06-01 07:56 PM

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84. "RE: Morals vs. Your Own Path"
In response to Reply # 80


          

>Ok. We've all mentioned how we
>should not just indoctrinate our
>kids--we should show various paths
>and let them choose there
>own. But aren't their some
>paths that they should never
>follow, even once? Arent there
>certain universal morals that MUST
>be indoctrinated into your child
>at a young age? They
>can figure them out themselves
>later. Certain things are plainly
>WRONG: murder, rape, theivery, etc.

a couple more and youll have the ten commandments.
but i suspect out of all the ten commandments, that only about 8 or 9 are universally acceptable for being accepted as "non-go-downable" paths.

>There are no ifs ands
>or buts here. The child
>must learn that these things
>are wrong immediately, as not
>learning them and following the
>other path is not acceptable
>under any circumstances. No controversy
>there. But, if we take
>this thought a step further---what
>are absolut RIGHTS and WRONGS----what
>are morals? A Muslim may
>feel that the teaching their
>child to submit to Allah
>is just as important and
>vital as teachinng them that
>murder is wrong.

the belief of the muslim is that Allah is the law giver. he set the pace, we flow with it.

so for us, it is more important to teach a child to submit to Allah, than teaching them that murder is wrong. why?
b/c for us, Allah is the one that declared murder to be wrong.
so, to submit to Him, is to submit to the decision that murder is wrong.

___________________________________
Words to ponder over............

3.7 He it is Who has >sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/
___________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

  

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LexM
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Wed Nov-07-01 05:32 AM

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91. "one thing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'd like to do differently is give my kids a better sense of history. My parents didn't really discuss a lot of that with me...I guess they figured I'd either learn it on my own, or in school (which, mostly, I did), but I'd like to give my kids a better foundation. There will be lots of those kid-level books on Black history, Africa, etc. as well as other cultures, religions, people...right now, I'm slowly building a library for my godson with those kinds of influences.



_________________________________________________________
*moment of silence for all those lost & those yet to be found*

"i abound with shelectricity..." ~~ursula rucker

~~~~
http://omidele.blogspot.com/
http://rahareiki.tumblr.com/
http://seatofbliss.blogspot.com/

  

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Utamaroho
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Wed Nov-07-01 05:36 AM

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92. "Would you ever test your child?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...like say, have a stranger walk in front of you and purposely ask them to drop a dollar on the ground to see if the child would "do the right thing"? or something along those lines.

would you test your child on lessons he/she learned to verify if said lesson was REALLY learned?


*btw, the right thing would be to run and pick the dollar up and quickly hide it in his/her pocket! j/k

Red, Black, Green

  

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abduhu
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Wed Nov-07-01 06:02 AM

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93. "RE: Would you ever test your child?"
In response to Reply # 92


          

>...like say, have a stranger walk
>in front of you and
>purposely ask them to drop
>a dollar on the ground
>to see if the child
>would "do the right thing"?
>or something along those lines.

no. and why whould i?
why create the situation, to have an outcome that might or might not be what i want?

there would be, im positive of it, plenty of moments in life, w/o creating one, that the child will be tested........you know...

"where is that quarter i just put on the table?"
"who drank my juice i just poured?"
"who knocked that plant over?"

>would you test your child on
>lessons he/she learned to verify
>if said lesson was REALLY
>learned?

depends on the lesson.
repeating the qur'an to see if he/she memorized correctly: yes.
creating a situation, that might inspire my child to lie, cheat, what have you: no.

like i said above, there will be plenty of times that will bring about these tests.

check my next post, for real.
___________________________________
Words to ponder over............

3.7 He it is Who has >sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/
___________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

  

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Utamaroho
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Wed Nov-07-01 06:12 AM

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94. "you're right..."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

i've seen some pretty good tests of character though from some parents...

not so much that failure to get the "right answer" would inspire a child to lie, so much as give you an opportunity to teach the correct answer in a REAL life situation at home before having to learn it out in the world. like giving a child a certain amount of money to spend at the fair, and not a penny more...but before then stopping at several convenience stores along the way buy drinks and snacks yourself. the child might be tempted to go after the immediate satisfaction, KNOWING you're on the way to the fair....and save his money. OR, he might spend along with you and not think of the future spending he will want to do at the fair...delayed gratificated nahmena... i was speaking of THOSE type tests...

Red, Black, Green

  

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abduhu
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Wed Nov-07-01 07:00 AM

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97. "RE: you're right..."
In response to Reply # 94


          

like giving
>a child a certain amount
>of money to spend at
>the fair, and not a
>penny more...but before then stopping
>at several convenience stores along
>the way buy drinks and
>snacks yourself. the child might
>be tempted to go after
>the immediate satisfaction, KNOWING you're
>on the way to the
>fair....and save his money. OR,
>he might spend along with
>you and not think of
>the future spending he will
>want to do at the
>fair...delayed gratificated nahmena... i was
>speaking of THOSE type tests...

and get to the fair and be like, "oh i forgot i was going to the fair. can i have a little more money, pleeeease?"

i feel you. but on this part:
>like giving
>a child a certain amount
>of money to spend at
>the fair, and not a
>penny more...but before then stopping
>at several convenience stores along
>the way buy drinks and
>snacks yourself.

dont do that on purpose.
its like setting them up for failure.
just LET it happen, and then recognize that it is going down.
then peep the response/reaction to said situation.

not that you were saying you would do it on purpose......but sometimes i wonder.........if i would'nt put it past you.

___________________________________
Words to ponder over............

3.7 He it is Who has >sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/
___________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

  

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Utamaroho
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Wed Nov-07-01 07:06 AM

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99. "i'd do it..."
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

i'd probably be more concerned at what my child was spending money ON at a fair...

the damn food there is pure shit! and the games...well, maybe those until he wised up and realized they were rigged. (although his martial arts training would give him keen physical abilities...hmmmmm )

i would give him more moeny though...just teach a lesson at th same time...

Red, Black, Green

  

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masani

Wed Nov-07-01 08:59 AM

  
110. "RE: Would you ever test your child?"
In response to Reply # 93


          

Spoken like a true parent... "who poured orange juice in your brother's grits?!?

  

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abduhu
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Wed Nov-07-01 06:53 AM

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95. "speaking of morals in children.................."
In response to Reply # 0


          

the other day i wasin the grocery stote picking up some stuff for dinner.

so i go down an isle an get what im looking for, and start for the next item.

you know how grocery stores have those racks near the registers full of candies, pies, snack cakes etc......

as im exiting the isle, i see this little girl in front of me, at one of those racks.

why is she SPITTING in a box of little debbie snack cakes on one of those racks?!? and im talking about thick spit, spitting slow, letting it fall from her mouth. ya know, like how kids play with spit.

i couldnt believe what i was seeing, a i kinda stood there w/ this perplexing, yet disturbed and disgusted look on my face.

so when she finished, she looked at it for a couple of seconds and walked off.

in the very short "meanwhile", i was like "maaan, should i let this go?"...."who is she with?"...."where are here parents, imma have to call her out on this one?"

so as im looking at her walking away, and thinking what im thinking......not even six ft. from where she spit THE FIRST TIME.............she politely stops a a display box of king size reese cups, doesnt look (or think twice, probably) to see if anyone is watching her, AND DOES IT AGAIN!

this time, she bent over, cups her hands around her mouth, and spits away!

so now im like "who is she wit, for real!?"......"i cant let her get away with this!"......."

she finally decides to look around, and see if anybody saw her, and looks dead at me! and she got this look on her face like "did he see me or what?"

so she turns to start walking away, and looks back at me, to verify if i really was looking at her i guess. and she politely *smiles* as if she did nothing at all. a real smile, no smirk, no sinister, no nothing but a real honest smile.

im looking to see, where shes gonna go, and who shes gonna goto, as she knows she has been officially busted.

and so she walks through the checkout line that she just spit in, and walks to the checkout line before that one.........and lo and behold.......in the security of moms.

so shes stand w/ moms, kinda grabbing on her, like shes hiding in moms dress tail from me or something......youve seen that look b4, im sure.

so shes staring at me AS IM COMING HER WAY TO TELL HER MOM WHAT SHE DID...........

"excuse me mam, is she with you?"

"yes she is, why did she do something (simultaneously grabbing her arm w/ that unescapable grip that moms have. girl knows she done-done did it now)?"
"what did she take? what did you take (shaking her arm while asking)?"

"ummm, she didnt take anything. i just wanted to let you know that she spit on some candy bars......(moms pulls girl towards direction im looking in b4 i can say where)....over here (as im walking)."

mom has seen enough. ice grill in effect. starts to take her away b4 i can say........

"and she spit in this box over here."

moms dont even come to look at that one.
mumbles something about "pulling to the side to discuss...."

walks out of store, with groceries, lil' bad ass daughter, and the other saintly children.

1 thing that i realize and amazes me!:
she (the mother) didnt even bother to attepmt to rectify what her daughter had done......and im like "what the......!?!"

so i tell the cashier about it, and she cleans it up.

.........................

back at home.
so as im narrating to my wife what happened.............
#2 thing that i realize and amazes me!:
when the girl spit the little debbie box, HER MOM WAS CHECKING OUT IN THE SAME LINE she spit in!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT WAS ONE BRAVE, BUT BAD, LITTLE GIRL!!!!!

-end story-

moral of this "i admit, i didnt have to detail so much to illustrate a picture, but that just how i do" story:

you dont have to create situations to test your children on the lessons that they have learned, they will happen anyway.

***p.s.: just because a child fails a test, doesnt mean that the lesson hasnt been learned. sometimes students have sorry ass teachers teaching them half ass lessons. remember that, and make sure you dont fall victim to it.***

peace.

***p.p.s.: you have my permission to edit this "wonderful" children's story as you see fit, and print it, at a cost of nothing! just acknowledge me, tis all.***
___________________________________
Words to ponder over............

3.7 He it is Who has >sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/
___________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

  

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Utamaroho
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Wed Nov-07-01 07:03 AM

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98. "RE: speaking of morals in children.................."
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

was she white?

*for the record YES i am a racist...

Red, Black, Green

  

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abduhu
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Wed Nov-07-01 07:14 AM

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100. "RE: speaking of morals in children.................."
In response to Reply # 98


          

>was she white?

as black as black can be. wit her lil' orfin annie- type dress on!

suprised?

i know i wasnt, given the morality of some of todays teachers of black kids (i.e.: their parents)

___________________________________
Words to ponder over............

3.7 He it is Who has >sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

the biography of Prophet Muhammad (saws):
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/
___________________________________
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You). ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped except You). astaghfiruka (I seek Your forgiveness), wa atuubu ilaika (and I turn to You in Repentance).

  

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Utamaroho
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Wed Nov-07-01 07:17 AM

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101. "damn niggers!"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

negroes!

Red, Black, Green

  

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Solarus
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3604 posts
Wed Nov-07-01 07:20 AM

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103. "I'm not surprised"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

Akwaaba

Damn niglets!

SE wo werE fi na wosankofa a yenkyi.


PEace
solarICE

Still representin' the RED, BLACK & GREEN since 1978!
EFF RED, WHITE, & BLUE*!

Ain't a damn thing changed...

*That includes the Panamanian "dummy government setup by you know who" flag.


***Something to think about***

"if the god of these religions (judaism/christianity/islam) is not above using terrorist tactics to make people believe in Him (and what's the big deal if people do Not believe in Him? God is a egomaniac) then why wouldnt the hardcore followers of these faiths have a tendency to terrorism as well?"- yuckwheat

And one more thing:
I AM NOT UTAMAROHO AND HIS VIEWS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT MINE!!!

____________________________
"the real pyramids were built with such precision that you can't slide a piece of paper between two 4,000 lb stones, and have shafts perfectly aligned so that you can see a tiny aperture through dozens of these mammoth blocks

  

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the2ndsurvivor
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Wed Nov-07-01 07:28 AM

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104. "that's why i have my sig"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

...if I were a superhero, I'd be Had-It-Up-to-Here Woman, sneaking around grocery stores, malls, and amusement parks all over the world. With lightning speed, I'd snatch up bad azz kids and give them three swift licks with my golden switch and vanish into thin air before anyone knew what happened...

Pet Peeve of the Month:

People who call your house with the wrong number. If you call for Mike and I say Mike doesn't live here, don't say "but isn't this his number" or "but didn't I dial XXX-XXXX" because I will tell you no. No, it's not his number. If it was I would let you speak to him. And don't hang up and have your friend call 2 minutes later. I'll say, "Hey, I hear your friend in the background. I just told him(her) that Mike doesn't live here."

Look over to your left...yeah, up in the corner. As a suggestion, you may want to take two.

  

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somoney
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2247 posts
Wed Nov-07-01 07:48 AM

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105. "what about the obvious..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

no perms/relaxers? i doubt any of us will press the issue of having straight hair to our curly-head children and curly hair to our straight-head children... and locks? if they are indeed for a spiritual purpose, should you not lock your child's hair until they can "understand" that purpose? or will locks become like the standard bob haircut chinese children have... it will be so interesting to see how our children interpret "natural beauty" and what kind of "self image" they have... i envision my daughter being asked, "why is your hair like that, and why don't your clothes match? and her replying, "that's just me."

i pierced my daughter's ears though i did not get mine pierced until i was like 12... people kept bugging me about her ears... after a while, i figured she could just not wear earrings when she is old enough to say she does not want to... i don't wear earrings now... i feel like a punked out on this issue, yet it's no "biggie."

  

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pey
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Wed Nov-07-01 08:11 AM

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107. "still all just theory, but...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i believe one of the most important things when you have a child is to let him/her have freedom.
controlled freedom, perhaps, but still freedom.

also personally...
when i have a child i will not beat him/her.
i think it is degrading and unnecessary and will in the long run cause more problems than solutions.
if i could not make my child respect me without resorting to violence i'd feel like a failure...

i'd also try to give the child the opportunity to choose his or her way of life.
be it politics, religion or other things...

hopefully i'll physically be in a place where i can educate my child about the nature surrounding us and how the enviroment works.
being able to take the child on trips and walks so that we both can learn...

most importantly i'd try to set a good example for my child to see, and perhaps follow.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ain't no blood in my body,:
it's liquid soul in my veins :

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Wed Nov-07-01 08:22 AM

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108. "good point"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

when i have a child i will not beat him/her.
i think it is degrading and unnecessary and will in the long run cause more problems than solutions.
if i could not make my child respect me without resorting to violence i'd feel like a failure...

Red, Black, Green

  

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knumskul
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1038 posts
Wed Nov-07-01 09:44 AM

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111. "Damn"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I skimmed through this real quick, don't even know what it's all about but I'm gonna respond anyhow (shame on me,right?)
ANyhoo, here's my two cents:

You can hope and pray and lead by example and stand on your head til you're blue in the face and guess what? that still doesn't mean that children will turn out the way you want em to. All you can do is do your best w/ what you have, learn as you go, try not to get so frustrated that it shows, get to KNOW your child (newsflash: they;re all different and they all require different things) spend time w/ them, listen, and never give up. It's a long and sometimes very frustrating, sometimes very rewarding job...it aint easy. Nope, not at all.
Children have a mind of their own. they're not just learning from their parents, they're learning from EVERYthign and EVERYone around them ('...village to raise a child'). Of course - up until they're like 12 or 13 when they think they know it all and they're trynna be independent, in which case you just gotta step back and be ready to catch em when they fall- a kids parents are the ones they look to and believe over everything/one else they see or hear (I believed certain things were true simply cuz mi mama told me. she was awesome in my book; the guru on life) so ya gotta make sure you teach em to use critical thought, try to counteract all that negative ish they learn, so that _they_ figure out what's right and whats wrong. Gotta make em critical thinkers. Saying something like "it's right cuz i said so" aint gonna fly. I'm rambling (as usual) and I'm sure I left a lot out, but I think yall get the point. At least I hope ya do *laugh.
Nettrice summed it up rather nicely I think. re-read what she wrote...over and over again.

y'all *really* think" that you're tricking somebody into something don't you? what you don't realize is that most women decide within the first 5 minutes of meeting a dude whether or not they'll sleep with him. all your "game" is merely entertainment. - H

  

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Utamaroho
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Wed Nov-07-01 09:45 AM

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112. "public or private schooling?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...or home schooling (if you have the option)?

Red, Black, Green

  

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knumskul
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Wed Nov-07-01 10:11 AM

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113. "RE: public or private schooling?"
In response to Reply # 112


          

You gotta investigate cuz there are some private schools that suck real bad and cost a fortune and then there are some public schools that consistently have outstanding test scores year after year . I recommend checking the Stan9 test scores online year after year and then being very vocal/active in your childs school...get to know the teachers and staff,participate, etc. The main thing is that parents make sure that the learning doesn't stop when the bell rings at school. Teachers need help. Esp. nowadays when the classrooms are packed tight (cali has a new law that caps all classrooms at 20 kids but the bad thing about that is that they sometimes mix classes- like 1st and 2nd graders in one class when they run outta teachers- and those kids that aren't so bright won't be able to make it)
Home schooling has its drawbacks too. Children who are home schooled aren't well-rounded...sometimes. They're sheltered. If they're lucky enough to have smart-as-whips parents teaching em, they'll be book smart, but not wise and once they're out on their own, they'll be eaten alive.

y'all *really* think" that you're tricking somebody into something don't you? what you don't realize is that most women decide within the first 5 minutes of meeting a dude whether or not they'll sleep with him. all your "game" is merely entertainment. - H

  

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Utamaroho
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Wed Nov-07-01 10:17 AM

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115. "the home schooled children i've met..."
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

...and they goto AFRICAN centered schools...

are not so much "sheltered" as tehy are FOCUSED. extremely focused. they do well in public settings that i saw...even in the lecture forum with ADULTS they were asking really good questions in a forum on "Educating Afrikan children"...an this was an ADULT environment, mind you.

I've never been around or winessed non-Afrikan centered home schooling.

Red, Black, Green

  

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knumskul
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1038 posts
Wed Nov-07-01 10:36 AM

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118. "Wow"
In response to Reply # 115


          

That sounds great but how well do they interact w/ regular children? Just curious. You say they go to Afrikan centered schools? So they're not entirely homeschooled? the ones (homeschooled) that I've met have issues...some of em. Sometimes they feel like they don't fit in and we know how important that can be for children...feeling as though they belong. But then I'm sure homeschooling has its good points, I'd just rather my son go to a GOOD school (public or private) where he can interact _independently_ w/ other folks and children. Plus, I can't afford to not work and home school. Even if I could, I wouldn't do it. I like having the help his teacher gives

y'all *really* think" that you're tricking somebody into something don't you? what you don't realize is that most women decide within the first 5 minutes of meeting a dude whether or not they'll sleep with him. all your "game" is merely entertainment. - H

  

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Utamaroho
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Wed Nov-07-01 10:42 AM

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119. "they interact well with other children..."
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

to me they seem WAYYY mature for their age, but comparing them to the comparable children in public schools and the shit i see THEM do....it's a good thing.

they're home schooled, they just receive an afrikan-centered education as the core. my main surprise was talking to them about subjects that i'd speak to someone my age about, and using the same language too! and these were early teenagers.


Red, Black, Green

  

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knumskul
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Wed Nov-07-01 10:52 AM

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120. "That's great!"
In response to Reply # 119


          

but it goes back to having great parents to teach them. Some parents arent' equipped to homeschool (may not have the brains or money or both). I bet those same kids would do just as well if not better in a regular school environment simply because of their parents. Like the California school (Balboa Elem)I mentioned earlier that tests great every year...their parents/homelife/etc. is the main reason for that, I'm sure. Plus the fact that a lot of them aren't English as a second language kids. But anyway, yeah, its all up the parents and their involvement. At least I think so.

y'all *really* think" that you're tricking somebody into something don't you? what you don't realize is that most women decide within the first 5 minutes of meeting a dude whether or not they'll sleep with him. all your "game" is merely entertainment. - H

  

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knumskul
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Wed Nov-07-01 10:23 AM

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116. "MOre"
In response to Reply # 113


          

There are so many variables when choosing schools. For instance, theres a school here in Cali (a public school) that wows everyone w/ their test scores each year. They test well, and that's good. But one of the reasons they do so well every year is cuz (I hate that I'm saying this but...) most of em have stay-at-home moms or dads that stay involved and in their kids' behinds, making sure those kids stay in their books, and feel loved, and self-confident, etc.
Ya gotta check out the teachers(credentialed? or not), the curriculumn, the friggin school board at times! It's not so simple to say either public, private, or home.

y'all *really* think" that you're tricking somebody into something don't you? what you don't realize is that most women decide within the first 5 minutes of meeting a dude whether or not they'll sleep with him. all your "game" is merely entertainment. - H

  

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pey
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Wed Nov-07-01 10:12 AM

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114. "public (nonbritish public that is)"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

staterun schools in norway are generally good.
there are some flaws, but most of the ones i experienced as a child are being straightened out these days.
todays school is good.

private schools would not be an option (i'm probably quite prejudiced against them, but....)

homeschooling would be ideal, but i doubt i'd have enough knowledge about many different subjects.
perhaps if my future partner is knowledgeable on the subjects where i lack...

there's also the thing about having contact with other children.
homeschooling would maybe (but not necessarily) limit the time spent interacting with friends...
a parent can teach many things, but so can children.
i know i learnt many things from my playmates...things that i use to this day.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ain't no blood in my body,:
it's liquid soul in my veins :

  

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360sunsumyea
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Wed Nov-07-01 10:27 AM

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117. "some homeschoolers"
In response to Reply # 114


          

participate in after-school programs and/or activities through the public schools in their area to give them more interaction with other children.

i think some sort of network of people who homeschool would be a good thing to address those type of isues.

**********THE SIG**********

The point is for us to sit down and make some kind of agreement on some basic things and understand that what is going to be freedom to me, is not necessarily going to be freedom for you. Self-Determination must be a very important part of what We're talking about when We talk about political organization -- political activity -- that has to be underlined because everybody doesn't have the same dream. So, there has to be room for everybody to attempt to move toward that dream, as long as that dream does not include oppressing other people; exploiting other people.
-Assata Shakur

I long for the day when I can go out, eat a raw food breakfast, snack on natural fruit and vegetables, read a book, study and practice a martial art, eat dinner, cultivate my garden, play with my seeds, and rest......
-urbgriot

  

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Federisco
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Thu Nov-08-01 07:26 AM

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131. "RE: public (nonbritish public that is)"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

>private schools would not be an
>option (i'm probably quite prejudiced
>against them, but....)

What do you hold against private schools?
I went to one for almost 10 years, and cant get it why it would NOT be an option

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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pey
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Thu Nov-08-01 09:42 AM

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133. "it's not an option for me."
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

when i was raised i was spoonfed all this stuff about equality...
if you see england, mainly rich people go to public schools (note: why is it so friggin hard for them to just say private schools like the rest of the world...these schools are hardly public)
middleclass or poorer children usually go to staterun schools...

of course it depends on what sort of private school you go to.
and as i said i'm prejudiced...

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ain't no blood in my body,:
it's liquid soul in my veins :

  

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Federisco
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Tue Nov-13-01 06:37 AM

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145. "alternative schools"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

My private school was more "alternative" than "private", the school was run by the teachers who were paid low wages. They decided their wages themselves, and put most money into running the school. (Many were broke!.. in the norwegian meaning of that word.) They focused on making the material which they taught alive, we painted and drew and sang.. very idyllic They made it artistic first of all, plus "spiritual delevopment". We didn't get grades, the teacher would write a paper about our positive abilities and negative abilities

Then there were all the drawbacks (it was almost like a strange sect.. made by a strange german, Rudolf Steiner. It was christian, only very strange and extreme. Very peaceful and full of harmony, but strange. It had all the drawbacks of a sect)

But Montesorri.. ahh..... after i found out how they are, ive liked the Montesorri schools very much

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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pey
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Tue Nov-13-01 06:40 AM

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146. "i was thinking about steiner-schools...."
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

that's one of the better systems in my opinion...
no grades...

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
ain't no blood in my body,:
it's liquid soul in my veins :

  

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Federisco
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Tue Nov-13-01 07:50 AM

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147. "mmh waldorf schools"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

its the english name

Yep.. no A+ or 6, but what i liked most of all was that the teachers dedicated themselves totally to it. It made me feel very good going there

sorry i said private school in the first place, i meant alternative. Im right beside you when it comes to private schools ala the british ones

░▒▓█▌¹♥▐█▓▒░

proud okayphotographer: http://www.okayplayer.com/okayphotographers/

"Most of our assumptions have outlived their uselessness." — Marshall McLuhan

  

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somoney
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Wed Nov-07-01 11:17 AM

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121. "also"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

my company is doing a public service announcement (as well as other things) for the national council on economic education (ncee) which includes copy/makes points like:

"Children can learn economic literacy skills as early as kindergarten. But not many are. Over 50 years ago, the NCEE identified a gap between what children need to know about economics and what they are being taught. The NCEE has been working to close that gap ever since. Today, it is more important than ever. That our children have ability to think, choose and function in a global economy is imperative."

{image of 6+ children}
"5 of these children will be left behind in the global economy
4 will never be able to manage a household budget
3 won't know how to save for retirement
2 won't learn to balance a checkbook
1 organization can change that..."

i remember learning how to balance a checkbook, using fake money in school to make purchases and count change back and such...
but the bad financial/spending example my mom set is the one i followed, unfortunately... i hope i can help my daughter be smarter with money... allowance is key.

  

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somoney
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Wed Nov-07-01 11:54 AM

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123. "oh and, public"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          



  

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SoWhat
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Wed Nov-07-01 11:47 AM

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122. "Public."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

I'll find a great public school system.

fuck you.

  

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Utamaroho
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124. "me."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

definitely NOT public...

haven't decided on what alternative, but definitely not american public schools...

Red, Black, Green

  

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Cocobrotha2
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Wed Nov-07-01 12:47 PM

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125. "RE: public or private schooling?"
In response to Reply # 112


          

As long as either school system is competent, it doesn't matter whether private or public when it comes to academics. The standard you set as parents will decide how much they excel in school. I was a lazy child (still pretty lazy) but my parents standard for excellence eventually became my standard for excellence. I think a parents job is to set standards and give guidance but to still give the child freedom to explore the world.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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Nettrice
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61747 posts
Wed Nov-07-01 01:21 PM

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127. "I agree"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

I had a great public school education. If I had a serious problem in one school I was taken out and transferred to another. Plus, we moved to and from different locations around the city so my experiences were both very positive and negative.

My junior high and high school experiences were great and they were public schools (one was a magnet).


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"Everyone seems to have a clear idea of how other people should lead their lives, but none about his or her own"
--Paulo Coelho, "The Alchemist"

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix" (and a Buddhist philosophy)

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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Brandard
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Tue Nov-13-01 05:21 AM

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144. "cosign"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

[]

Giving You True Lesson Moderation Since'03
******

Want something archived? thats what an inbox is for

  

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yuckwheat
Charter member
1367 posts
Wed Nov-07-01 12:58 PM

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126. "RE: Let's have a baby!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


>"If we were to take the
>best parts of everything learned
>from our experiences thus far
>in life (and on the
>boards), how would we best
>transmit these ideas and what
>exactly would be taught?"

impose your "rules" on them early, and be consistent, provide reasoning when it's appropriate, then let go more and more after a certain age. from then on, simply advise, when prompted for assistance (if ever)

let the bastards become whatever the hell they are going to on their own. you gave them a map, they can discard it, modify it, or adhere to it.

simple.

  

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Utamaroho
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17658 posts
Wed Nov-07-01 04:44 PM

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128. "consistency is key!"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

>>let the bastards become whatever the hell they are going to on their own. you gave them a map, they can discard it, modify it, or adhere to it.

i like that.

Red, Black, Green

  

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kemetian
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Wed Nov-07-01 09:46 PM

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129. "Also..."
In response to Reply # 126


  

          

Yimhotep

avoid calling your children "bastard."
just a tidbit...
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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yuckwheat
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Thu Nov-08-01 04:27 AM

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130. "no"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

*

  

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AST
Charter member
597 posts
Thu Nov-08-01 10:15 AM

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134. "I haven't read the other replies"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

so theirs want interupt my flow of thought,but as I will as soon as I'm done.

on raising my SEED I know I will breast feed and continue my vegan ways-being mindfully that everything is alright with my SEED

During the schoolin' years I plan on teaching at home-with the overstanding that my SEED will be well educated on many different topics which are not being taught in a majority of today's schools as well the basic 3 R's(as the school's put it)

If my SEED would like to explore farther on topics I've introduce him/her to (not force) I will assist him/her in finding out as much as possible on that topic.

I will not force my SEED to worshipped in a certain way. If he/she wants to become a christian/muslim/non-denomation(sp?) or whathaveu-I will support them to the fullest.

If my SEED would like to eat certain foods I myself do not-I will support them

As long as I have raise my SEED with morals I live by. I will support their decisions, because I am not here to judge A SOUL.

did I answer ur questions, luv

HOTEP(PEACE)


to each their own...


♥ڿڰۣ♥ PEACE & LOVE ♥ڿڰۣ♥

https://twitter.com/JustmeTasha

  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Thu Nov-08-01 02:08 PM

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135. "INITIATION"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yimhotep
this is very important in most cultures. do u c yourself sending your child to the Continent for an initiation or doing a Rites of Passage here, or not doing one @ all?
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Thu Nov-08-01 02:11 PM

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136. "there WILL be rites of passage"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

i'm thinking of some good ones now...

i need to complete mine though.

_____________________________________________________________________________
One of my favorite quotes:

"Real recognize real. And the FAKE, they REALLY, REALLY recognize real." -c/o BlackThought

Red, Black, Green

  

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kemetian
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1336 posts
Fri Nov-09-01 08:20 PM

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137. "R.O.P."
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

when u say thinking of do u mean programs that u know of or specific activities that u think woule make a good rites of passage? if the latter is the case, will you think up the one for your daughter as well? d

>i'm thinking of some good ones
>now...
>
>i need to complete mine though.
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________________
>One of my favorite quotes:
>
>"Real recognize real. And the FAKE,
>they REALLY, REALLY recognize real."
>-c/o BlackThought


Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Fri Nov-09-01 08:23 PM

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138. "Circumsion"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yimhotep
done @ birth? done during rites of passage? not done @ all?
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Mon Nov-12-01 08:03 AM

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140. "that should read"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

Yimhotep
circumcision, 4give the spelling errors, the hand gets ahead of itself sometimes.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Tue Nov-13-01 05:16 AM

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142. "unnatural..."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

i have a book called "don't circumsice your sons" that makes some good points.

_____________________________________________________________________________
One of my favorite quotes:

"Real recognize real. And the FAKE, they REALLY, REALLY recognize real." -c/o BlackThought

PEOPLE SUSPENDED FROM THE REVOLUTION:

Zesi
360sumsunyea

Red, Black, Green

  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Tue Nov-13-01 09:41 AM

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148. "RE: unnatural..."
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

Yimhotep
can u give soem details?
i have heard that male and female circumcision was done to remove the "female" and "male" parts of the 2 respectively & (it was not originally the removal of the entire clitoris) so that when the 2 joined they reflected the androgyny of the Creator. i have to find the info tho'.
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 06:13 PM

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154. "how is foreskin..."
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

the female part of a male. being that it's ON a male, and on a male NATURALLY, then i can't see how it'd be considered partly feminine.

_____________________________________________________________________________
How do you know Adam and Eve weren't black? ...Ever try taking a rib from a nigger?

What was missing from the million man march? ...An auctioneer

Why are niggers so strong? ...T.V.'s are getting heavier

What do you call a nigger having sex? ...Rape

What's the definition of mass confusion? ...Father's Day in Harlem

What is long and hard on a nigger? ...First Grade

What's the difference between a nigger and a bike? ...When you put chains on a bike it doesn't start singing

Why can't Stevie Wonder read? ...He's black

What's long and black? ...The unemployment line

How has Jesse Jackson lost the vote of most niggers? ...He promised to create jobs for them if elected.

What do you call a nigger in a suit? ...Defendant

What's the difference between a black man and a pizza? ...a pizza can feed a family of four.

Red, Black, Green

  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Fri Nov-09-01 08:27 PM

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139. "Extended Family"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yimhotep

what part will Elders play? do u want them to be near (to help out when u and the spouse need a break) or don't mind if they r far? will they be your parents or do u have to co-opt some that r thinking in the way u r? will they play no part @ all (no extra ppl needed, i got this)?
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Tue Nov-13-01 05:19 AM

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143. "most definitely."
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

i hope to influence whatever community i'm in, and take a leadership role in establishing some type of "it takes a village" model that could be introduced to other communities if it worked...so that we could go back to actually CARING about our neighbor's children and their wellbeing. plus, i will have my own collective of like minded individuals around that become a part of teaching the child.

_____________________________________________________________________________
One of my favorite quotes:

"Real recognize real. And the FAKE, they REALLY, REALLY recognize real." -c/o BlackThought

PEOPLE SUSPENDED FROM THE REVOLUTION:

Zesi
360sumsunyea

Red, Black, Green

  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 07:56 AM

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149. "Cursing"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Yimhotep
would/do u curse in front of/@ your children?
Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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Utamaroho
Charter member
17658 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 09:10 AM

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150. "no"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

divine speech. nahmean?

Red, Black, Green

  

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lidawg
Charter member
1539 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 09:41 AM

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152. "community service is requisite..."
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

i don't know if any one said this already but community service would be requisite in my home...as soon as my kids can SERVE, we'll be in the community. however, as they grow older, i'll allow them to pick and choose if they want to do some or not. i also think that if you don't have the option of homeschooling or private school that perhaps a qualified public school wouldn't be a bad idea. I'd also have requisite reading at home...you know...an utamoroho list, a kemetian list, a solarus list, and some great poetry by guerilla_love to read as well. the shout-outs are meant as respect not to hang off of jock or bra straps.

peace!
li

"u never know, u might be closer to the truth than u think. people wear their stories on their backs. u just have to know how to read them.--LexM

"Man, use shuffle cuz sometimes a cd's playlist can fk up a cd"--me

"Man was born free and is everywhere in chains."--Rousseau

"Afraid is a country with no exit visa."--Audre Lorde

  

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kemetian
Charter member
1336 posts
Wed Nov-14-01 11:07 AM

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153. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

the
>shout-outs are meant as respect
>not to hang off of
>jock or bra straps.

the community service point is a good one, definitely. gives them the idea that they r connected to something larger.

Shemhotep
************
"Be not arrogant because of your knowledge. Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the wise. For the limits of knowledge in any field have never been set and no one has ever reached them. Wisdom is rarer than emeralds, and yet it is found among the women who gather at the grindstones."
-The Book of Ptahhotep(excerpt)

Kemetian
--------------------------------------
check it out:
www.natureworksforyou.co
m

"Pour libation for your father
and mother who rest in the
valley of the dead. God will
witness your action and
accept it. Do not forget to
do this

  

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