Beating Atlanta in the playoffs at home isn't exactly difficult.

Eli will be eating beer nuts at the bar like eagles players.

Sad shit. I wish he would perform well so the giants have a chance against the falcons. But the fact of the matter is that Eli is little more than a liability, a mistake at birth and a human travesty.

I'm not sure what it will take to erase his Super Bowl win, but it is high time the league took a look at that. It is embarrassing that Eli could spin, break a tackle and trust his receiver to make the game winning play.

Unholy, even. I, for one, applaud dr claw, bshelly and chuckforprez for making this plain to me. I only regret that my giants will now join both the reskins and the eagle at home...on the couch.

*woe is me*

"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black�at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

I will be upping ALL of this shit.

The Falcons coach/OC bailed y'all out for ONE MORE WEEK.

.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

The Falcons straight up threw this game after the failed 4th down.

NOW SAY LUCKY
SAY ASTERISK
STAY MAAAAADDDD AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

Fuck Eli, he is not in that Brady-tier no matter how much it's said.

"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black�at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

The Giants are toast. Whether it comes in the next round, or the NFCCG, or Matrix forbid, the Super Bowl.

Forrest Gump will not be hosting that trophy, and the Giants will be swept next season.

And THEN they'll be at home just like your eagles! But it ain't today!

"Slaves got options...cowards aint got shit." --PS
"Once upon a time, little need existed for making the distinction between a nigga and a black�at least not in this country, the place where niggas were invented" -- Donnell A

he is not as good as the true "elites".

this is what it's about.

As a Giants fan, I recognized Randall. I recognized 5.

Can you really not recognize Eli's talent?

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

I concede that he is worthy of being the Giants franchise QB, a guy you would want helming your team.

and there are a number of QBs that are dropping below him in the rankings.

but last season, he was terrible, and may have been one of the reasons the Giants failed to get to the playoffs. He was markedly better in a few areas this season, but he had 16 INTs still this year (less than twice as many TDs to match).

He has not had one elite regular season of NFL play to get that label yet. He's as close as we'll get to another Brett Favre, who, DESPITE the ring of hate, was actually a QB worth the hype for a few seasons. And because we really haven't seen him miss significant time for so many seasons, Eli may just end up having a Favre-like career when it's all said and done, without the asslicking and other things that made Favre a headache in the tail end of his career.

________________________________
There are dozens of us! Dozens!

Safeties ain't on the defense. That safety is on the quarterback.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

Outside of Brady and Rodgers no one is going to get you big plays in big games like Eli will

I don't hate on him anymore, but I'd really only call that top 4 of Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning elite. As discussed in that other Ben and him are right outside that group, but I feel like they will always be kinda knocking on that door and not getting in. They're great, but those other 4 have as few limitations in their game as humanly possible.

outside the 2007 season?

--------

>outside the 2007 season?

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

suddenly make you elite? like this is some deciding factor.

--------

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

********************************************
"If you think you're too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed room with a mosquito."

winning this game doesn't mean anything towards that. this polls / posts read like he just threw 5 TD to dethrone the Packers.

--------

I don't think they're using this as the main argument so much as a re-affirmation of it.

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

if were gonna do this every week the whole board is gonna be as furious as Doc Claw

a dude who came back from a season where he threw 25 INTs (most of all QBs in 2010), and threw 16 this year...

ran roughshod on a lot of weak defenses in the 4th quarter, on a team that was swept by one of the worst in the NFL in division, just beat a team that gave up after 2 failed dumb 4th down attempts...

is now ELITE?!

as good as his brother, Tom Brady, Rodgers, and Drew Brees?!

No.

Just No.

Maybe most improved player (I'm willing to give that to Carlos Rogers over him though). Worthy of being the Giants Franchise QB (proved in 2007). But ELITE?

GTFOOHWTBS.

Eli can't control the schedule or playoff seeding, but the truth will soon be revealed.

LMAO

Dallas choked
New York Jets choked
ATL ... I don't even know what you can call that. It was essentially forfeit after the failed QB sneak.

ironically the teams that didn't choke against them... are the other two teams in the division.

their schedule is what it was.

>Dallas choked
>New York Jets choked
>ATL ... I don't even know what you can call that. It was
>essentially forfeit after the failed QB sneak.
>
>ironically the teams that didn't choke against them... are the
>other two teams in the division.
>
>their schedule is what it was.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

>a dude who came back from a season where he threw 25 INTs
>(most of all QBs in 2010), and threw 16 this year...
>
>ran roughshod on a lot of weak defenses in the 4th quarter, on
>a team that was swept by one of the worst in the NFL in
>division, just beat a team that gave up after 2 failed dumb
>4th down attempts...
>
>is now ELITE?!
>
>as good as his brother, Tom Brady, Rodgers, and Drew Brees?!
>
>No.
>
>Just No.
>
>Maybe most improved player (I'm willing to give that to Carlos
>Rogers over him though). Worthy of being the Giants Franchise
>QB (proved in 2007). But ELITE?
>
>GTFOOHWTBS.
>
>Eli can't control the schedule or playoff seeding, but the
>truth will soon be revealed.


He's last place in the elite group.

Not even in the Ivy League.

My argument is not that he isn't clutch, or that he hasn't finally learned to cut down on the arm punts. It's just that, he has never had a single season comparable to his contemporaries that are in that elite class.

Best Giants QB ever, probably without a doubt. A guy you would want as your franchise QB? Yes.

Elite? No way.

He's probably closer to Brett Favre than anyone else.

>Not even in the Ivy League.
>
>My argument is not that he isn't clutch, or that he hasn't
>finally learned to cut down on the arm punts. It's just that,
>he has never had a single season comparable to his
>contemporaries that are in that elite class.
>
>Best Giants QB ever, probably without a doubt. A guy you would
>want as your franchise QB? Yes.
>
>Elite? No way.
>
>He's probably closer to Brett Favre than anyone else.

but you dead fucking wrong with this one. has he put up machine like numbers of rodgers, brady, brees, and peyton? outside of marino, who else HAS?

dude has proven time and time again he knows how to come up big in big games. he mas moxie, doesn't shrink in big moments. as great a regular season quarterback as peyton manning is, i think the colts win more than 2, and maybe three super bowls, if eli was in his place.

yeah he does stupid shit and had a baaad year last season. but doesn't negate or takeaway with the things he's accomplished and how he gets down when things are critical. dude has won big games, made HUGE plays in those games, and few QBs playing today are as clutch. he's easily top 5 QBs i wouldn't want to have my defense up against with 2:00 to go in a tight game. end of story.

this hate is quickly approaching basa's MJ or guinness' kobe hate.

like I said, this is Eli's FIRST playoff win outside of 2007. dude put up straight duds in 2005, 2006 and 2008.

--------

>like I said, this is Eli's FIRST playoff win outside of 2007.
>dude put up straight duds in 2005, 2006 and 2008.


but unless I see more playoff performances from each to make me think otherwise, I will NEVER back off from my position that Eli is a better postseason QB than Peyton. Do you really want to try and dispute that? Few quarterbacks ever had a deck as stacked as Peyton did in 2005, and to lose that steeler game the way they did was inexcusable. i could point to others, but in my opinion, that was by far the worst.

Peyton is 6-4, with two Superbowl trips and a championship since then. he's got better postseason numbers in nearly every category to Eli.

this isn't about Peyton though. it's more about Eli. TO REPEAT: yesterday was Eli's first postseason win outside his awesome 2007 run. how clutch was he throwing multiple picks and getting shut out in 2005? how clutch was he throwing multiple picks and losing again in 2006? how clutch was he throwing multiple picks and getting upset again in 2008?

Eli winning three Superbowls with Indianapolis from 2004-2010 is hyperbole at best, and more like absurdity.

--------

>Peyton is 6-4, with two Superbowl trips and a championship
>since then. he's got better postseason numbers in nearly every
>category to Eli.
>
>this isn't about Peyton though. it's more about Eli. TO
>REPEAT: yesterday was Eli's first postseason win outside his
>awesome 2007 run. how clutch was he throwing multiple picks
>and getting shut out in 2005? how clutch was he throwing
>multiple picks and losing again in 2006? how clutch was he
>throwing multiple picks and getting upset again in 2008?
>
>Eli winning three Superbowls with Indianapolis from 2004-2010
>is hyperbole at best, and more like absurdity.
while i stopped ripping him to no end once he won the super bowl (and very necessarily vanquished the patriots), in the overall evaluation of his playoff resume, he's not in the top 10 quarterbacks i'd take. my reasoning is far from just wins and losses, its how one side of a team performs based on what it's given to work with. for a long time, the money and attention went to the offense, while the defense was always blamed for being "not good enough," to which i call bullshit to. it's not that they lost, it was HOW they lost. getting shut out 41-0 by a jets team that was far from an all-time great, doing jack shit twice against the patriots in foxboro (the colts d held the patriots to 3 points for the first half in the second game); the aforementioned steelers. when so much is devoted to one side of the ball and that side performs asspiece in a glass in FAR too many pivotal games, while that same side performs stellar in the regular season, I can't overlook that.

You mistake me for saying Eli would have compiled the same record or led the colts with the same efficiency or sick numbers. i'm strictly talking playoff games. we'll never know, but it just speaks to my point that i'd rather have eli in the postseason than peyton.

I'd probably agree with most of it from 1999-2005. it's a shame that as he became a good playoff quarterback, the Colts as a whole regressed a ton. since 2007 their talent level has continually eroded -- him taking them to the Superbowl in 2009 seems like a miracle, given the fact the same exact team just went 2-14.

all that said, I don't see why Eli would have been so successful in his stead. talking strictly playoff games, Eli has had three horrible flameouts, one epic championship run, and now a home wild card win.

2005, while Peyton was blaming Vanderjagt and his offensive line, Eli had just got shut out at home. his three picks and 113 yards passing were the main reasons. clutch?

2006, the Giants were underdogs on the road. Eli had an OK game, didn't get the win though.

2008, the Giants had homefield advantage, a top five defense, and the number one rushing attack in the NFL. Eli played like shit (2 picks, under 200 yards passing, 40.7 QB rating) and they got bounced. how clutch was that?

Eli has had one great postseason, but the rest of his playoff career has been as inconsistent and less accomplished than big brother. your prerogative tho.

--------

>I'd probably agree with most of it from 1999-2005. it's a
>shame that as he became a good playoff quarterback, the Colts
>as a whole regressed a ton. since 2007 their talent level has
>continually eroded -- him taking them to the Superbowl in 2009
>seems like a miracle, given the fact the same exact team just
>went 2-14.
i actually won't disagree with that. since he got over the hump, he's been pretty solid. that game against SD, it really WAS the defense that time, plus san diego was always a tough matchup for indy. i mean yeah he threw the super bowl losing touchdown when he could have been the winner, but i still contend he played a pretty good super bowl, even in defeat.


>all that said, I don't see why Eli would have been so
>successful in his stead. talking strictly playoff games, Eli
>has had three horrible flameouts, one epic championship run,
>and now a home wild card win.
peyton, unlike eli, until about after 2007 as you pointed out, has had remarkable continuity and pro bowl talent on his side of the ball. other than some of his linemen, eli has had tiki barber, plaxico burress, a big mouthed rather than big producing shockey, and a rotating door of other guys. jacobs and bradshaw were an effective two headed monster, but not quite pro bowl. peyton has played with two pro bowl tight ends (one likely HOF), two likely HOF running backs (edge is def debatable) and perennial pro bowlers at least, two hall of fame receivers (wayne is likely if he keeps rolling, marv should get in even if he don't put the guns down). this is again coming to the level of performance, not strict wins and losses. peyton is ALWAYS lights out durign the regular season. even during his super bowl winning season, there was a huge drop off in his production.


>2005, while Peyton was blaming Vanderjagt and his offensive
>line, Eli had just got shut out at home. his three picks and
>113 yards passing were the main reasons. clutch?
>
>2006, the Giants were underdogs on the road. Eli had an OK
>game, didn't get the win though.
>
>2008, the Giants had homefield advantage, a top five defense,
>and the number one rushing attack in the NFL. Eli played like
>shit (2 picks, under 200 yards passing, 40.7 QB rating) and
>they got bounced. how clutch was that?
>
>Eli has had one great postseason, but the rest of his playoff
>career has been as inconsistent and less accomplished than big
>brother. your prerogative tho.
he also won a super bowl in half the time. he's got plenty of time to improve upon his postseason exploits. he also hasn't fallen off in the postseason after blazing regular seasons to the same degree peyton has. eli, even in his best years, has been streaky during the regular season. but even in the playoff games they lost, despite his version of the manning face, he didn't have the "lost" look peyton had several times. regular season all day its peyton. in the postseason, and barring injury i think it will prove out, eli is who i'd take.

>I'd probably agree with most of it from 1999-2005. it's a
>shame that as he became a good playoff quarterback, the Colts
>as a whole regressed a ton. since 2007 their talent level has
>continually eroded -- him taking them to the Superbowl in 2009
>seems like a miracle, given the fact the same exact team just
>went 2-14.
>
>all that said, I don't see why Eli would have been so
>successful in his stead. talking strictly playoff games, Eli
>has had three horrible flameouts, one epic championship run,
>and now a home wild card win.
>
>2005, while Peyton was blaming Vanderjagt and his offensive
>line, Eli had just got shut out at home. his three picks and
>113 yards passing were the main reasons. clutch?
>
>2006, the Giants were underdogs on the road. Eli had an OK
>game, didn't get the win though.
>
>2008, the Giants had homefield advantage, a top five defense,
>and the number one rushing attack in the NFL. Eli played like
>shit (2 picks, under 200 yards passing, 40.7 QB rating) and
>they got bounced. how clutch was that?
>
>Eli has had one great postseason, but the rest of his playoff
>career has been as inconsistent and less accomplished than big
>brother. your prerogative tho.

I'll give Eli credit for destroying the 49ers defense. clutch!

--------

>I'll give Eli credit for destroying the 49ers defense.
>clutch!
cute, but we both know kyle williams did more for the giants offense than eli. the game against us did nothing to increase or diminish my opinion of him as a postseason quarterback compared to peyton. even if we had won, it wasn't like it was due to eli choking or anything.

Eli had a great postseason, so that makes two instead of one (as I argued before). "clutch" is a hard thing to grasp in football, though -- as you just noted. if Kyle Williams fair catches all his punts, Alex Smith would've been "clutch" (and nobody would remember the fact he couldn't convert a third down). Welker makes that catch, or Jerod Mayo turns his head around (Belichick completely baited Eli into what should have been an interception), and Brady becomes as "clutch" as Joe Montana instead of being questioned as to why he hasn't won a Super Bowl in seven years. and so on.

not to say quarterbacks don't have bad playoff performances, or react poorly to pressure, but postseason games are so tight that 20 different plays could change the outcome. football is the ultimate team sport.

--------

>dude has proven time and time again he knows how to come up
>big in big games. he mas moxie, doesn't shrink in big moments.
>as great a regular season quarterback as peyton manning is, i
>think the colts win more than 2, and maybe three super bowls,
>if eli was in his place.
>
>yeah he does stupid shit and had a baaad year last season. but
>doesn't negate or takeaway with the things he's accomplished
>and how he gets down when things are critical. dude has won
>big games, made HUGE plays in those games, and few QBs playing
>today are as clutch. he's easily top 5 QBs i wouldn't want to
>have my defense up against with 2:00 to go in a tight game.
>end of story.
>
>this hate is quickly approaching basa's MJ or guinness' kobe
>hate.

elite != clutch, average to good.

elite = clutch (which might be a Peyton knock in the playoffs), and also gaudy stats, accomplished.

Eli has a long way to go before he gets up to Peyton. If Eli was QB of the Colts, throwing as many funballs as he does, they don't even see the playoffs as much as they do w/Peyton.

granted, I think the Giants are probably as fucked as the Colts are sans Eli.

Brett Favre in the '90s was elite. particularly, the 1995 and 1996 seasons... and the ones following were not shabby. My Favre hate has more to do with how those covering the NFL made him God, than what he does behind center.

Eli's career stats are closer to late-career Favre.
If he doesn't win that SB, we don't even discuss this. We'd be discussing, "is Eli good?"

and if I'm not mistaken, Basa's hate for Cheese Eyes, is the same as mine... a career of dirtbaggery, poor decisions in his late career, excused because he was the best player in the NBA during his era -- and perhaps because the current culture of "find a dominant superstar and coddle your way into a championship" can be directly traced to his success and David Stern's blind eye. For those same reasons (plus the Shot), I'm also not a fan of Cheese Eyes. Now that he's going around looking like an old Durham bamma wearing space pants in public... people easily pile on. But the "Jordan" effect more than anything has probably killed a number of dreams (and teams) in the NBA. I'm gonna hate for life off that, Tarheel affiliation notwithstanding. I don't think the Eli "hate" compares to this, because playoff career notwithstanding, what Eli does will never impact how teams in the NFL are built, and certainly not how it's covered. He's a Giants QB; he at least has the luxury of falling under the radar, his last name notwithstanding.

I think the Guin Kobe-hate comes from Laker fan inflation of his relevance to the team's success, and from stats crunching. I guess that's fair, but the "MVPau" trolling is some PB&J, as was those who use Shaq to denigrate his career. Shaq wasn't winning Cid Word before he went to the Lakers.

My Eli hate is partly due to divisional rivalry, partly due to watching dude through his career and just not buying the hype -- it was just silent until 2008 and the expected fallout of picking the Giants over an 18-0 Pats team. Giants fans started swarming like the worst Laker fans on Earth... plus, he has had some really putrid seasons in the NFL years removed from his rookie year and a spotty record in the playoffs minus 2007. Thus, it is most comparable to Guin's Kobe hate.

I think people get gassed over the small shit that they're quick to elevate. Add the fact that he plays for a New York team, and the first time anyone on any NY team gets propped up the second they do good.... and the hate spirals out of control.

There is a method to my madness, though. I'm not just hating 'cause he wears blue.

and going off the Falcons game is anarchy...

Didn't Eli lead the league in INTs last year??? And now he's elite???

If Eli was a Jag instead of a Giant, his name wouldn't be brought up as an Elite QB.

shitty example

He led the league in interceptions last year. He has 16 this year. Doesn't feel like elite to me.

http://gifsoup.com/view3/1967611/harlem-nights-o.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
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this isn't about the Giants hate, so much as it is undue Favrization. And even Favre had two straight seasons where he threw for almost 40 TDs with less than 15 INTs. One season late in his career, where he threw only 7. Right after he threw 22 (on 22 TDs).

When Eli does THAT, I will concede.

we'll settle it next week. He goes into Lambeau and wins, there's no limit to the nignorance I'm bringing.

He earned his way into the club, but fuck if y'all Judge Smails cats wanna recognize him.

---------------------------------
Photo zine(some images NSFW): http://bit.ly/USaSPhoto

"This (and every, actually) conversation needs more Chesterton and less Mike Francesa." - Walleye

.

he's on the verge of Elite status but not all the way there yet...

end of the day they were 9-7... if Jeremy Maclin catches a pass from Mike Kafka 4 months ago the Giants don't even make the playoffs...

It's because Eli had klunkers vs teams like Washington (twice) Seattle and the aforementioned Eagles...

top 3 - No

top 5 - Maybe

top 10 - Yes

Brady, Rodgers, Brees = Elite

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

or someone who is top 3 at there position... right now he is neither...

there is no question who the elite QBs in the NFL are

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

and i take it back this post was so very necessary

holla at me when he puts on a drive starting south of the opposing team's 30

did you not watch the start of the game?

you like the kid at the end of Eminem's "Stan" video. The part where he's driving in the rain and so fuckin mad a Eminem that he can barely think for all his rage.

...I'm from the era when A.I. was the answer, now they think ai is the answer - Marlon Craft

as I did when Lebronon swore up and down that LeFavre was finally going to win it all with some "help" immediately.

and we all saw how that turned out.

I know what I see. I see Eli playing some horrible defenses. I see the Giants facing teams that match up to their defensive strengths. IF he beats San Francisco (and even there I see potential for disaster), I'll admit he's matured but that's it.

I saw him lose twice to the Skins this year, and his team get bested by an underwhelming Vince Young.

I've also seen him throw over 20 INTs in one season, and win his first home playoff game in forever.

take that autistic decoder ring bullshit elsewhere Doc.

Rings does not an elite QB make, without a season or two of elite passing stats to match.

Why can't you punk ass New York troglodytes see that?

he's thrown for more than 4k the last three seasons. over 60% completions. more tds than ints despite throwing 25 in one season lol....

you know what i'll take that even though he pisses me off every few weeks.

i'll still take him over 28 other qbs.

and in an era with tom brady, peyton manning and drew brees are at the top of the class being 4th/5th/6th aint bad at all. what other decade/era have the top three qbs all won championships?

eli will win you more games than he'll lose(eagles last year fumbling at the end of the game without being touched) and he's been doing it since he started.

not to mention he hasn't michaelvicked a game ever....

and even Favre had that ridiculous 2009 season with the Vikes (where he threw the least amount of INTs since his mid-'90s heyday)

and you coming at me on some "Eagles" shit... I'm looking at his career independent of where he plays compared to the competition. he could play on the Eagles and even homerism wouldn't allow me to say it.

I am not contending the idea that he is a FRANCHISE-WORTHY QB WHO IS BALLING HIS ASS OFF, who has vastly improved over that embarrassment that was last season. My contention is that despite this, he has yet to have a single season with a TD total or at least a TD/INT ratio on par with the undisputed top 4.

y'all want to crown him because one-dimensional teams shirking the run game with wack defenses got taken by the Giants pass rush (which, mind you, was the reason why the Pats also lost in 2007)... fine.

but to call him "ELITE" suggests that he has at least backed that performance with at least one record-setting performance across the span of a season. He hasn't. Ergo, the coronation of Eli is classic New York hype. Him getting the one ring whilst playing for a New York team is probably going to get him in the HOF even if he fucks around and has a Favre on the Jets season next season.

Why the hell is this shit so goddamn hard to understand? I'm putting most of my divisional hate aside (because believe it or not, I'm not really going in the way I could be) for this stance.

FWIW, I'll even backpedal so far to to say he should be there with Ben, THOUGH as shit as Ben has been in some notable games (Super Bowls), Ben has recovered pretty well in games where he plays like shit. If Eli has a bad day, that's pretty much it. I've seen too much of that dillweed over the last 7 or so seasons to know that much.

If he wins it all this season he'll be equal to Ben. Who is certainly the model of a franchise, but not "elite" QB.

>Rings does not an elite QB make, without a season or two of
>elite passing stats to match.
>
>Why can't you punk ass New York troglodytes see that?
>
>
>

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"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c) T510

and I'm talking this year, which has spurred all this recent conversation.

He has earned it.

If he wins a ring this year, it's a legit discussion. If he wins another one, it's a wrap.

cmon.