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Subject: "um....how the fock is Wes Welker avg 150+ yards per game?" This topic is locked.
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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 09:56 PM

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"um....how the fock is Wes Welker avg 150+ yards per game?"
Mon Oct-03-11 09:57 PM by southphillyman

  

          

i asked this a couple weeks ago
basically trying throw a jab at OE for all that Moss shit he use to talk about in regards to welkahs success....
but now i'm being serious
i just went to look at WR stats because they were talking about Calvin Johnson on ATH
i go look and this dude is atop the list
seriously, is wes welker a top 3-5 WR in the league right today?
i mean he's been doing this for a couple of years now. at some point does he have to be looked at as an elite receiver?
wtf

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
The white refs give him preferential treatment
Oct 03rd 2011
1
how do you cover this guy?
Oct 03rd 2011
2
i want to see revis on him this year
Oct 03rd 2011
5
i think the numbers at some point have to speak for themselves..
Oct 03rd 2011
3
i figured this would be the main plea cop
Oct 03rd 2011
6
Because he's fast, and nice as shit
Oct 03rd 2011
4
he's really not even that fast
Oct 03rd 2011
7
he doesn't watch games
Oct 03rd 2011
10
You honestly sad a tad mad, brad.
Oct 03rd 2011
20
      i wouldn't call him fast for a receiver
Oct 03rd 2011
22
      RE: You honestly sad a tad mad, brad.
Oct 03rd 2011
24
RE: he's really not even that fast
Oct 03rd 2011
27
      that's you
Oct 04th 2011
158
           RE: that's me and the majority of football fans
Oct 05th 2011
172
no, it's not the offense
Oct 04th 2011
45
it can be both
Oct 04th 2011
49
      well stated.
Oct 04th 2011
51
           That is literally what I said. Sounds like you're just mad.
Oct 04th 2011
100
                What does that make Chad?
Oct 04th 2011
101
                Chad is awful. Not relevant here, though.
Oct 04th 2011
106
                Branch's numbers were actually pretty similar in Seattle
Oct 04th 2011
108
                LOL. Ok, so basically Branch is better with NE than with Seatle.
Oct 04th 2011
111
                     Hernandez is split out more often than not in the offense
Oct 04th 2011
114
                     ummm...the offense uses 2 TEs because that's better than
Oct 04th 2011
116
                          BWAHAHHAAHHAHAHA
Oct 04th 2011
122
                               what the dumb fuck are you talking about?
Oct 04th 2011
126
                                    ***CHECKMATE***
Oct 04th 2011
133
                                         you actually think that was smart, ehh?
Oct 04th 2011
136
                                              BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
Oct 04th 2011
139
                                                   this is epic fail cloaked in grandiosity
Oct 04th 2011
144
                                                        ^^^Says the Patriots invented the slant pattern
Oct 04th 2011
162
                                                             ^believes that was clever.
Oct 05th 2011
173
                                                                  Wait--the Patriots invented the 4-3?? Ohh word?
Oct 05th 2011
176
                not at all what you said.
Oct 04th 2011
112
                     Y'all are sounding a tad mad. Just a tad.
Oct 04th 2011
119
                          i don't understand why you're discounting welker
Oct 04th 2011
123
                               "Welker is fast and nice as shit" (c) Orbit_Established
Oct 04th 2011
127
But those 3 can't do what welkah does, just as he cant do what they do
Oct 04th 2011
66
      Okay, so basically Welker isn't as good as any of them. Thanks.
Oct 04th 2011
107
           Right now, this is Tom's best season by far
Oct 04th 2011
110
                LOL. Okay, so basically Welker isn't anywhere near the top 3.
Oct 04th 2011
113
                     Where did the top 3 talk come from?
Oct 04th 2011
115
                          Okay, so basically Welker isn't as good as any of them. Thanks.
Oct 04th 2011
124
                               Again, when was that the question?
Oct 04th 2011
130
                                    Okay, so basically Welker isn't as good as any of them. Thanks.
Oct 04th 2011
135
                                         Strawman Established
Oct 04th 2011
137
                                         MadHonky.
Oct 04th 2011
140
                                              Wes Welker is the Brad Pitt of the NFL
Oct 04th 2011
141
                                              Now you sound like the guys over at C@@@E Football.
Oct 04th 2011
142
                                                   Nice analogy, Orbit Williams Jr.
Oct 04th 2011
143
                                              FuriousNegro!
Oct 04th 2011
155
                                         bwhahahahah
Oct 04th 2011
154
he's good at what he does but he doesn't scare any defense
Oct 03rd 2011
8
^^^ this
Oct 03rd 2011
11
like who? Moss? Ocho?
Oct 03rd 2011
15
Man, any DC who isn't scared by a guy averaging 150 per...
Oct 03rd 2011
23
FOH...
Oct 03rd 2011
30
      Stop Brady is all they're thinking
Oct 03rd 2011
31
      yeah, that MUST be it...
Oct 04th 2011
35
           the numbers look nice but
Oct 04th 2011
39
                paddington bear...
Oct 04th 2011
46
                Really? That's one hell of a pad.
Oct 04th 2011
48
                     RE: Really? That's one hell of a pad.
Oct 04th 2011
53
                          Yeah, his pace right now is just how the game is going.
Oct 04th 2011
72
                               RE: Yeah, his pace right now is just how the game is going.
Oct 04th 2011
79
                                    you're right. only the pats can use slot receivers well
Oct 04th 2011
80
                                    i don't know. who were the slot receivers in Denver?
Oct 04th 2011
85
                                         exactly my point.
Oct 04th 2011
89
                                              It's damn impressive but
Oct 04th 2011
98
                                                   So you're saying he's a top 10 WR in the league
Oct 04th 2011
103
                                                        RE: So you're saying he's a top 10 WR in the league
Oct 04th 2011
117
                                                        and 7th best in the league apparently is not "elite"
Oct 04th 2011
118
                                    Wrong. I said he wouldn't be putting up these crazy numbers
Oct 04th 2011
82
                                         we can agree to disagree then because he's not elite in my book
Oct 04th 2011
86
      welker runs like a bulldog
Oct 03rd 2011
32
           you can tout all the test you want...
Oct 04th 2011
34
           What was Jerry Rice's 40 time?
Oct 04th 2011
54
                i believe it's only like 4.5 or something like that.
Oct 04th 2011
97
                     hard to find accurate time now but Ive heard anywhere from 4.5 to 4.7
Oct 06th 2011
185
YAC...bcz they use short passes like a running game
Oct 03rd 2011
9
his YAC are middle of the pack for a WR and not in the top 50 overall
Oct 03rd 2011
12
this is true...edelman's actually much better after the catch
Oct 03rd 2011
14
basically
Oct 03rd 2011
16
nah, his YAC is extremely high
Oct 04th 2011
38
      RE: nah, his YAC is extremely high
Oct 04th 2011
42
           even 5.5 is really high
Oct 04th 2011
44
its almost like they need to consider it a different position
Oct 03rd 2011
13
slot machine..
Oct 03rd 2011
17
Because he gets separation.
Oct 03rd 2011
18
Welker=replies
Oct 03rd 2011
19
+1 (actually 2)
Oct 03rd 2011
21
um....how the fock is Wes Welker avg 150+ replies per post?
Oct 04th 2011
159
      Slow day at work
Oct 04th 2011
160
Randy Moss
Oct 03rd 2011
25
lol.
Oct 03rd 2011
26
The Billy Hoyle of Football
Oct 03rd 2011
28
its hard god damn work making something this pretty
Dec 25th 2011
198
i see everyone abandoned the "He has a deep threat" excuse
Oct 03rd 2011
29
he was decoying the decoy
Oct 03rd 2011
33
I'll Man Up And Take This L
Oct 04th 2011
36
      *takes note*
Oct 06th 2011
180
3 words
Oct 04th 2011
37
Thank you
Oct 04th 2011
40
i think they run more of a spread. they barely pass to the RBs
Oct 04th 2011
41
      RE: i think they run more of a spread. they barely pass to the RBs
Oct 04th 2011
50
           they mainly run a two TE set.
Oct 04th 2011
52
                true, but still a spread really
Oct 04th 2011
55
I'd say Welker is the best slot receiver in the NFL.
Oct 04th 2011
43
Nah. He'd be very good on any team. Replace Mike Thomas with him...
Oct 04th 2011
47
      Oh, you misunderstood me.
Oct 04th 2011
152
I really can't believe he still gets hate
Oct 04th 2011
56
What did he do prior to NE?
Oct 04th 2011
57
Led a shitty Dolphin team in receptions only starting 2 games
Oct 04th 2011
58
not to mention that people on here
Oct 04th 2011
62
      People know and HATE that hes good
Oct 04th 2011
64
      RE: People know and HATE that hes good
Oct 04th 2011
70
      Would he have the same numbers elsewhere?
Oct 04th 2011
67
           lol.
Oct 04th 2011
69
           You can laugh but you know it's true
Oct 04th 2011
73
                Just like Julian Edelman did when Welker was out... oh wait...
Oct 04th 2011
75
                Pssst...EVERY receiver plays "in a system"
Oct 04th 2011
76
                RE: Pssst...EVERY receiver plays "in a system"
Oct 04th 2011
88
                     Welker puts up Reggie Wayne numbers, not Garcon numbers
Oct 04th 2011
90
                     Matt Cassell says hi.
Oct 04th 2011
92
                     damn. he walked right into that one.
Oct 04th 2011
93
                     #2 in league in receptions, #9 in league in yards without Brady
Oct 04th 2011
94
                          + helped cassel to his highest yards + best completion rate
Oct 04th 2011
96
                     so now we're gonna pretend that Moss wasn't there
Oct 04th 2011
102
                          LOL. So when Brady's gone, you lean back on the Moss excuse?
Oct 04th 2011
104
                               Elite ends at 6
Oct 04th 2011
105
                               It ends at 3 actually
Oct 04th 2011
121
                                    You go girl.
Oct 04th 2011
125
                                    i'm not the one with my panties in a bunch
Oct 04th 2011
131
                                         I can see that.
Oct 04th 2011
132
                                    Where did the top 3 talk come from?
Oct 04th 2011
138
                                         RE: Where did the top 3 talk come from?
Oct 04th 2011
156
                               What Moss excuse?
Oct 04th 2011
128
                                    People here said he was only good because of Moss
Oct 04th 2011
134
                     have you seen a Chiefs game this year?
Oct 04th 2011
99
                     um, Reggie Wayne is elite period
Oct 04th 2011
148
                chicken, meet egg. egg, meet chicken.
Oct 04th 2011
77
                So is Chad not in the system??
Oct 04th 2011
78
                     is Chad past his prime? yes
Oct 04th 2011
87
           "yeah, the offense is part of it"- Me
Oct 04th 2011
83
Did better than Roddy White and Vincent Jackson's first two years
Oct 04th 2011
71
      RE: Did better than Roddy White and Vincent Jackson's first two years
Oct 04th 2011
91
           Roddy, maybe. I think VJackson's overrated
Oct 04th 2011
95
                LMAO. You've never seen Vincent Jackson play.
Oct 04th 2011
163
                     From the guy who said Edelman put up big numbers in Welker's spot
Oct 04th 2011
164
                          ^^^^^^^
Oct 04th 2011
168
                               Interesting. Y'all done resorted to lying and diverting.
Oct 05th 2011
170
                                    SPM asked if he was top 3
Oct 05th 2011
177
ppl let agendas ruin their perspective
Oct 04th 2011
59
      lmao
Oct 04th 2011
60
           hahaha
Oct 04th 2011
63
I'm not comfortable with Brady going to him so much
Oct 04th 2011
61
I don't have as much of a problem with this
Oct 04th 2011
65
Chad ain't a deep threat or threat of any kind anymore
Oct 04th 2011
68
I feel the same way
Oct 04th 2011
74
that D is going to let up 65 in the playoffs
Oct 04th 2011
129
      you're inadvertently cursing the Sox. stop it
Oct 04th 2011
146
      have you followed the Pats posts?
Oct 04th 2011
151
      and the raiders arent gonna let up a single point in the offseason
Oct 04th 2011
157
           ^^^ Ha.
Oct 04th 2011
166
           Nah, the defense isn't that good
Oct 06th 2011
182
seen him at foxy ladies in providence
Oct 04th 2011
81
The game is all in the name
Oct 04th 2011
84
He runs his routes and is always trying to get that extra yard.
Oct 04th 2011
109
i'm disappointed it took this long to get "gritty"
Oct 04th 2011
120
'cism
Oct 04th 2011
145
      lmao
Oct 04th 2011
149
      wooooooooooooosh
Oct 04th 2011
153
           RE: wooooooooooooosh
Oct 04th 2011
161
                round trip whoooooosh lol
Oct 05th 2011
169
                     RE: round trip whoooooosh lol
Oct 05th 2011
171
                          i know you hate me, but learn what a joke is.
Oct 05th 2011
175
BTW
Oct 04th 2011
147
Y'all acting like it's just the system and HE GOT TO GO RUN SLANTS
Oct 04th 2011
150
Rule changes+offense+natural skill+experience
Oct 04th 2011
165
RE: Rule changes+offense+natural skill+experience
Oct 04th 2011
167
      honestly, quite a few guys are better
Oct 05th 2011
174
      I'd like to hear niggas argue that Welker is better than Steve Smith
Oct 06th 2011
181
           before this season I would have.
Oct 06th 2011
183
                So basically, Steve Smith is eons fucking better.
Oct 06th 2011
184
20+ targets a game
Oct 06th 2011
178
you mean an average of 14?
Oct 06th 2011
179
I'll just up this now.
Dec 24th 2011
186
Odd uppage. He's not even the best receiver on his team.
Dec 24th 2011
187
uhhh no.
Dec 24th 2011
188
LMAO. You just proved that you don't watch the games
Dec 24th 2011
189
gronks a beast
Dec 24th 2011
191
You just fucked yourself up in this post. You don't watch football.
Dec 24th 2011
192
      gtfoh with all that garbage
Dec 24th 2011
195
           LOL. You're just avoiding the CENTRAL issue.
Dec 25th 2011
199
lol, no. wes is just that good at getting away.
Dec 24th 2011
194
If you studied games like you claim...
Dec 26th 2011
216
actually man. I gotta agree with O_E. Gronk is the best
Dec 24th 2011
190
      at this point, his separation has made up for this:
Dec 24th 2011
193
      I think Gronk is better too but it's clear that Worldwide Wes is a beast
Dec 25th 2011
196
           Wes is a beast. He's not top 5 and Gronk is better.
Dec 25th 2011
197
                Horrible problem the Pats have on their hands there
Dec 25th 2011
201
                the problem is the lack of a guy getting deep consistently
Dec 25th 2011
203
                RE: Wes is a beast. He's not top 5 and Gronk is better.
Dec 25th 2011
204
both tight ends honestly.
Dec 25th 2011
200
      wes has developed a long game more than i ever expected
Dec 25th 2011
202
LOL at him being one of the top three WR's
Dec 26th 2011
211
Wes has people so mad they're calling tight ends wide receivers
Dec 25th 2011
205
Welker got Pats fans SHITTIN on GRONKOWSKI Bwahahahaha
Dec 25th 2011
207
      lol, no. everyone is praising gronk
Dec 26th 2011
208
           L nigga you are SHITTIN on GRONK
Dec 26th 2011
209
                by calling a dude who's been doing it consistently
Dec 26th 2011
210
                     the less important and worse of the two
Dec 27th 2011
217
                          Wait--I thought Welker was top 3? I'm confused
Dec 27th 2011
218
                               RE: Wait--I thought Welker was top 3? I'm confused
Dec 27th 2011
219
                                    Wait -- so Welker is better than Andre Johnson and Larry Fitz?
Dec 27th 2011
221
                                         lol. basically.
Dec 28th 2011
272
Because he's the best in the game
Dec 25th 2011
206
i laughed
Dec 26th 2011
212
RE: i laughed
Dec 26th 2011
213
      You can post all the stats you want. Dude isn't a top 5 receiver
Dec 27th 2011
222
           ^^^^and here we have the summary of Welker haters arguments
Dec 27th 2011
223
                Is Victor Cruz better than Larry Fitzerald?
Dec 27th 2011
224
                I already answered no to this
Dec 27th 2011
225
                ou have to separate fan loyalty from truth when it comes to players
Dec 27th 2011
238
                     a few thoughts:
Dec 27th 2011
239
                          also, caldwell had 760 yards and 4 tds
Dec 27th 2011
240
                          regardless of anything, those guys I named are better
Dec 27th 2011
254
                               by what measure though?
Dec 28th 2011
273
                                    he has to be the complete threat. I still don't think he is
Dec 28th 2011
281
                                         RE: he has to be the complete threat. I still don't think he is
Dec 28th 2011
282
                                         see, I'm not saying Welker isn't a very good receiver
Dec 28th 2011
284
                                              I know but you're kinda proving my point for me...
Dec 28th 2011
288
                                                   Yall my Pats bredren so I'll just agree to disagree lol
Dec 28th 2011
289
                                                        Haha I feel you.
Dec 28th 2011
290
                                         like I said, he doesn't have the talent of those guys
Dec 28th 2011
285
                According to "Nickhasabraintumororislegallyretarded": He is AS good
Dec 27th 2011
250
                It's not hate when it's the truth
Dec 27th 2011
226
that cracka is not the best in the game....
Dec 26th 2011
214
      except that his stats say the exact opposite
Dec 26th 2011
215
           RE: except that his stats say the exact opposite
Dec 27th 2011
220
           There should be a mandatory test required to pass to be on the internet
Dec 27th 2011
243
                THATS ALL YOU GOT????
Dec 28th 2011
280
           he does all of that and yet
Dec 27th 2011
227
                that's a fucking lie and a half
Dec 27th 2011
228
                i know where that lie started
Dec 27th 2011
229
                Q: Coach, shouldn't we figure out what to do about welker?
Dec 27th 2011
230
                you know, we could take the extra WHITE! angle on this
Dec 27th 2011
231
                     they know he'll work harder than them anyway, so why even try?
Dec 27th 2011
232
                Welker is good. just not as good as y'all are trying to make him
Dec 27th 2011
235
                     its not us, it's his STATISTICS
Dec 27th 2011
244
                          the best receiver doesn't always have the best statistics though
Dec 27th 2011
247
                               you being the guy who thinks welker's still just a "slot receiver"
Dec 27th 2011
249
                               But what if the receiver in question has the best stats in multiple cate...
Dec 27th 2011
257
                who's caught the most TD passes for the Patriots?
Dec 27th 2011
234
                     so Darren Sproles is better than Marques Colston?
Dec 27th 2011
236
                     last time i checked Marques Colston wasn't an elite receiver
Dec 27th 2011
241
                     wait, so the guy who never had more than 2 TDs or 600 yards
Dec 27th 2011
237
                     like i said, Welker is the best slot receiver playing today
Dec 27th 2011
242
                     U don't watch Pats games much, do you?
Dec 27th 2011
246
                     i'm not gonna sit here and pretend that i watch all of their games
Dec 27th 2011
252
                     Welker has a 99 yards TD this season *STATISTICAL/VIDEO ETHER WITHIN*
Dec 27th 2011
258
                          Quit confusing this fool with proof.
Dec 27th 2011
261
                          so i'm a fool now
Dec 27th 2011
262
                               "fool" was just a figure of speech...
Dec 27th 2011
264
                               5 players in history have had more catches
Dec 28th 2011
274
                                    no matter what you say he's not top 5 WR
Dec 28th 2011
276
                                         no player in the game gets a double team every snap
Dec 28th 2011
278
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^all of this.
Dec 28th 2011
279
                                              RE: no player in the game gets a double team every snap
Dec 28th 2011
283
                          you're wasting your time and mines posting this shit dude ain't a top 3 ...
Dec 27th 2011
263
                               each piece of evidence i've provided in this thread has refuted your cla...
Dec 27th 2011
268
                     I'll take "People who never actually watch a football game for a $1000, ...
Dec 27th 2011
248
                     Laurent Robinson has just as many touchdowns as Dez Bryant
Dec 27th 2011
245
                          LOL! damn y'all dudes are mad. Gronk is the man on that team
Dec 27th 2011
251
                               Gronk has 50 FEWER targets than Welker
Dec 27th 2011
253
                               he also has six more TD's
Dec 27th 2011
255
                                    I'd throw it up to the taller guy in the redzone, too.
Dec 27th 2011
256
                                         remember when teams used to gameplan for Mike Vrabel???
Dec 27th 2011
269
                                              LOL! loving the failed jokes
Dec 28th 2011
277
                               You've lost a fact/statistic based argument in a horrible horrible fashi...
Dec 27th 2011
259
                                    LOL! i've lost nothing and you're wasting your time. he's not top 5
Dec 27th 2011
265
                HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Dec 27th 2011
233
Just selected to his 4th straight pro bowl start
Dec 27th 2011
260
well deserved.
Dec 27th 2011
266
nobody said he wasn't good
Dec 27th 2011
267
      you should come here even less often than you do
Dec 27th 2011
270
           keep crying fam
Dec 28th 2011
275
                Why would I cry? I get to watch the GOAT QB and the best WR in the game
Dec 28th 2011
286
                     I get to watch the GOAT QB. Agreed. Brady is great!
Dec 28th 2011
287
Brady n.m.
Dec 27th 2011
271
All-Pro for the 2nd time. congrats!
Jan 06th 2012
291
http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Red-Shirt.jpg
Jan 13th 2012
292
http://i40.tinypic.com/24xdq2o.gif
Feb 05th 2012
293
Yep. Wasn't even the best slot receiver today
Feb 05th 2012
295
catching all those bullshit slants out the slot with nobody on him
Feb 05th 2012
294
Why is what Welker does any of Willies business?
Apr 26th 2012
296
lol, McGinest ended his career with the Browns
Apr 26th 2012
297
Willie got all three of them thangs the Patriots got in the 90s
Apr 26th 2012
298
damn....
Apr 26th 2012
299
I'm a diehard Bears and NY FB fan but I respect the Patriots org
Apr 26th 2012
300
cmon
Apr 26th 2012
305
      Yea Daniel Fells def needs to be on that list
Apr 26th 2012
306
      I honestly do not know who that is. No snark.
Apr 26th 2012
309
           He has 88 catches in 5 years
Apr 26th 2012
311
           Big, Athletic TE that blocks well and has good hands...
Apr 26th 2012
312
      Sam... Josh McDaniels is the OC...
Apr 26th 2012
310
      RE: cmon
Apr 26th 2012
313
RE: Willie got all three of them thangs the Patriots got in the 90s
Apr 26th 2012
301
      Nitpicking? LOL! Ok man...
Apr 26th 2012
302
           RE: Nitpicking? LOL! Ok man...
Apr 26th 2012
304
                Respect. I see your points.. Let's proceed....
Apr 26th 2012
307
                     RE: Respect. I see your points.. Let's proceed....
Apr 26th 2012
314
                          More thoughts...
Apr 26th 2012
315
Willie should stfu
Apr 26th 2012
303
we've seen this before. ex-pats play the bad guy in negotiations
Apr 26th 2012
308

ImPerfectNick
Member since May 04th 2005
3463 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:02 PM

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1. "The white refs give him preferential treatment"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Everybody's got opinions on the way you're living but see they can't fill your shoes... Life is made of half-illusions... forty percent confusion, whatever's left I'm using... to keep myself from losing, yeah.

  

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falafel stand pimpin
Member since Dec 26th 2006
4381 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:04 PM

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2. "how do you cover this guy?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i dont understand it. is it to not get beat deep? what if a team's best cb covers him?

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:22 PM

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5. "i want to see revis on him this year"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
2514 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:04 PM

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3. "i think the numbers at some point have to speak for themselves.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i don't think he's the athlete WR's like Megatron and Andre Johnson or even Roddy White, but that boy knows how to get open and it definitely doesn't hurt that he's got one of the GOAT's throwing to him.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:23 PM

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6. "i figured this would be the main plea cop"
In response to Reply # 3
Mon Oct-03-11 10:24 PM by southphillyman

  

          

> and it definitely doesn't hurt that he's got one of the
>GOAT's throwing to him.

not saying it's not a factor
but what were his stats when cassell was there....
right there with his top years with brady

~~~~~~

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:04 PM

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4. "Because he's fast, and nice as shit"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


You stay mad as shit, and its mad cute, but its
all out in the open at this point

Its clearly the offense

Edelman balled his ass off for Welker when Welker
was hurt and Edelman can barely make the team at
this point

Deion Branch was a bum in Seatle

He comes to New England and balls INSTANTLY


Why?


The offense


>i asked this a couple weeks ago
>basically trying throw a jab at OE for all that Moss shit he
>use to talk about in regards to welkahs success....

Moss does make everyone better, though

Don't mean Welkah ain't nice

Its also the offense

>but now i'm being serious
>i just went to look at WR stats because they were talking
>about Calvin Johnson on ATH
>i go look and this dude is atop the list
>seriously, is wes welker a top 3-5 WR in the league right
>today?

Nope

>i mean he's been doing this for a couple of years now. at some
>point does he have to be looked at as an elite receiver?
>wtf

He is elite, very elite


But the whitest person in the galaxy would rather
have Megatron, Dre, and Fitz


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Jon
Charter member
18687 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:23 PM

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7. "he's really not even that fast"
In response to Reply # 4
Mon Oct-03-11 10:24 PM by Jon

          

just nice as shit lol

he's very quick though

i'd definitely take calvin, andre, fitz over him, but after those three, i'd have to think the debate begins. I'm not saying he's my #4, but for him to be considered top 5 in someone's list is very reasonable imo.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:25 PM

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10. "he doesn't watch games"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:59 PM

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20. "You honestly sad a tad mad, brad. "
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


So Welker ain't fast?

LOL

Dumb nigga


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Jon
Charter member
18687 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:04 PM

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22. "i wouldn't call him fast for a receiver"
In response to Reply # 20


          

quick yeah

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:07 PM

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24. "RE: You honestly sad a tad mad, brad. "
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/sports/nfl

not replying to u until u know what ur talking bout, smh

~~~~~~

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:31 PM

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27. "RE: he's really not even that fast"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

I'd take Roddy White, Greg Jennings and Vincent Jackson over him too.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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Jon
Charter member
18687 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 07:48 PM

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158. "that's you"
In response to Reply # 27


          

>I'd take Roddy White, Greg Jennings and Vincent Jackson over
>him too.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 06:41 AM

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172. "RE: that's me and the majority of football fans"
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

Like I said earlier, most coaches in the NFL would take Fitz, Dre, Mega, Jennings, V. Jack and Roddy over Wes. Just off their size and athletic ability alone. More the athletic ability with Jennings.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 08:14 AM

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45. "no, it's not the offense"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>Its clearly the offense
>
>Edelman balled his ass off for Welker when Welker
>was hurt and Edelman can barely make the team at
>this point

edelman had a 1.5 game length mirage of success (and he was also clearly not as good as welker and dropped key passes).

>Deion Branch was a bum in Seatle
>He comes to New England and balls INSTANTLY

balls? instantly? disregard that branch was @ New England before 706 yards and 5 tds over 11 games isn't close to welker status (its actually right on pace for a typical branch year @ new england prior to getting traded). plus, he's not doing shit this year and welker's balling more than ever.

Chad Ochocinco didn't ball instantly. there's a long list of WRs who *failed* to produce in new england.

also, the offense keeps changing its personnel, where welker lines up, etc. it's now primarily a 2 TE offense where before it was a 3-4 WR base offense. in both cases, welker balls.

>But the whitest person in the galaxy would rather
>have Megatron, Dre, and Fitz

that's only 3.

anyone not putting him top 10 is on crack. anyone putting him in the top five has a case.

-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 08:43 AM

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49. "it can be both"
In response to Reply # 45


          

Welker is the best slot receiver in the NFL and deservedly among the top overall. he has elite quickness, is one of the best route-runners and an automatic third-down conversion.

all that said, the Patriots' offensive system is designed just for his talents. in a way that's a compliment, because their offensive theory revolves more around him than having a competent running game or deep threat.

--------

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 09:01 AM

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51. "well stated."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

they built an offense around brady to welker and it's putting up monster numbers in general and for welker specifically.

-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:17 PM

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100. "That is literally what I said. Sounds like you're just mad."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>they built an offense around brady to welker and it's putting
>up monster numbers in general and for welker specifically.

Welker is nice as shit

The offense is nice as shit

He's nice in that offense

To deny the offense is to simply be white; Deion
Branch was doo doo on a stick in Seatle. He comes
back to NE and starts balling RIGHT AWAY

And what about Edelman? Put up VERY good numbers
when Welker was out. He's barey a #5 receiver
at this point



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:18 PM

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101. "What does that make Chad?"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

>> He's barey a #5 receiver
>at this point
>

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:27 PM

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106. "Chad is awful. Not relevant here, though. "
In response to Reply # 101


  

          


n/m

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:36 PM

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108. "Branch's numbers were actually pretty similar in Seattle"
In response to Reply # 100


          

He dipped in the 2009 and fell out of favor at the start of 2010 but his other years in Seattle were basically not that different from his NE tenture.

Look at when he went off in his return to NE compared to when he was doo doo on a stick in Seattle.

In 2007, in 11 games, he had 49 catches, 661 yards, and 4 TDs
In 2010, in 11 games, he had 48 catches, 706 yards, and 5 TDs

The offense definitely helps Welker but it helps him but up unreal numbers. Put him on a different team and he'd do well because he knows how to get open. Branch was overrated; he was always a 60 ypg type player. He's what Welker was the year following his knee injury. (Branch has already been overtaken by Gronkowski and Hernandez in the Pats pecking order.)

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:44 PM

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111. "LOL. Ok, so basically Branch is better with NE than with Seatle. "
In response to Reply # 108


  

          


>
>The offense definitely helps Welker but it helps him but up
>unreal numbers. Put him on a different team and he'd do well
>because he knows how to get open. Branch was overrated; he was
>always a 60 ypg type player. He's what Welker was the year
>following his knee injury. (Branch has already been overtaken
>by Gronkowski and Hernandez in the Pats pecking order.)

Uh. That's because the new offense utilizes double tight
ends...its not about "pecking order"

LOL


Just stop being white and post logically




----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:46 PM

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114. "Hernandez is split out more often than not in the offense"
In response to Reply # 111


          

Branch could easily get some of those snaps.

Do you really think that if Belichick thought Branch was as good as Welker he'd devise an offense that would bench Branch?

C'mon.


----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:48 PM

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116. "ummm...the offense uses 2 TEs because that's better than"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

targeting Branch because both of those TEs are better receiving options than branch.

>Uh. That's because the new offense utilizes double tight
>ends...its not about "pecking order"

both gronk and hernandez are better than branch. also, hernandez has been out for two weeks so it's been gronkowski + bums off the street/OL scrubs and still branch has 1 catch in the past two games.


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:55 PM

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122. "BWAHAHHAAHHAHAHA"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          


The Pats were using that set BEFORE BRANCH CAME BACK,
DUMBASS

They were using it when MOSS was there

And the tight end thing is a LEAGUE WIDE phenomenon


See how y'all abandon basic logic just because you
don't like Black Orbit?


>both gronk and hernandez are better than branch. also,
>hernandez has been out for two weeks so it's been gronkowski +
>bums off the street/OL scrubs and still branch has 1 catch in
>the past two games.

So you're shitting on Branch now?


LOL


Spoken like a true white Boston sports fan.


So why isn't David Ortiz the Red Sox captain again?





----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:57 PM

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126. "what the dumb fuck are you talking about?"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

>The Pats were using that set BEFORE BRANCH CAME BACK,
>DUMBASS

not as their base offense. nope. you're wrong. and mad.

>And the tight end thing is a LEAGUE WIDE phenomenon

what does that even mean?

>So you're shitting on Branch now?

no, but gronk and hernandez are better. yep. a weed smoking latino is better than branch as a receiver. mad?

-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:05 PM

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133. "***CHECKMATE***"
In response to Reply # 126


  

          



This is what I mean...you guys are SOOO white and
MAD that you abandon BASIC LOGIC and its why OE
will ALWAYS win



Nigga you JUST SAID the Pats moved to the 2 TE set
because Gronk and Hernandez were better than Branch??

Nigga EVERYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHIGN KNOWS they were USING
THAT SET BEFORE THE NIGGA GOT THERE


You don't know BASICS OF FOOTBALL and just fucking CALLED
OUT, all beacuse you don't want to bow down to the iridescent
blackness that is the Orbit




>not as their base offense. nope. you're wrong. and mad.

BWAHAHAHAHA @ "base offense"

The Patriots change offenses like NO OTHER TEAM, dumbass

They stack their tight ends

The split them out wide

They have 4 WIDES and 1 TE

The use 3 wides and 2 TE

They use shotgun

The use empties

It is the DIVERSITY SPECIFICALLY which makes them
good

I've seen them play ALL FOUR GAMES and they use
different combinations at different times, depending
on situation


>no, but gronk and hernandez are better. yep. a weed smoking
>latino is better than branch as a receiver. mad?


That's a good white Bostonian -- playing good nigger/bad
nigger.


*applause*





----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:11 PM

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136. "you actually think that was smart, ehh?"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

did the pats play a 3-4 as their base defense last year?

>Nigga you JUST SAID the Pats moved to the 2 TE set
>because Gronk and Hernandez were better than Branch??

the pats went from primarily playing with 3 WRs on the field to playing primarily with 2 TEs on the field.

>Nigga EVERYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHIGN KNOWS they were USING
>THAT SET BEFORE THE NIGGA GOT THERE

again, no shit.

>They have 4 WIDES and 1 TE

and rarely put that on the field this year.
>
>The use 3 wides and 2 TE

almost never.

>They use shotgun

with 2 TEs, most of the time.

>The use empties

again, primarily with 2 TEs.

>I've seen them play ALL FOUR GAMES and they use
>different combinations at different times, depending
>on situation

wow. shocking. i've never noticed that in watching them. nope. never. you just blew my mind. really. lol.


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:20 PM

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139. "BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA"
In response to Reply # 136
Tue Oct-04-11 03:23 PM by Orbit_Established

  

          



You got BAITED and WALKED INTO A TRAP

I baited your DUMBASS into a making a WHITE,
DUMB ARGUMENT and now you got to LEEEEEEEEIIIIVVEE
FOREVA with having made it


Niggas said they MAGICALLY CREATED the 2 TIGHT
END sent because Deion Branch wasn't any good


I'm literally in tears right now


And WOW @ white people shitting on Deion Branch



Probably the most clutch receiver in team history
after (and maybe including) Troy Brown


BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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>the pats went from primarily playing with 3 WRs on the field
>to playing primarily with 2 TEs on the field.

EXCEPT there was a WHOLE SEGMENT on NFL NETWORK on this
TREND AROUND THE LEAGUE, DUMB ASS...LOTS of teams are
transitioning THIS WAY...its the NEW STEP FORWARD in the
LEAGUE...it works BEST IN NEW ENGLAND because they have
the BEST QB who knows how to read shit

Corners and safeties are RAISED to know how to defend
vertical wide receivers...NOT athletic, physical tight
ends

Its a MATCHUP thing

>again, no shit.
>
>>They have 4 WIDES and 1 TE

>and rarely put that on the field this year.

I've seen it

>>The use 3 wides and 2 TE
>
>almost never.

They don't any SINGLE base very much, that's why
they are impossible to gameplan for

>>They use shotgun

>with 2 TEs, most of the time.

Except when they don't, because they don't
have a predictable "base"

Dumb ass




----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:48 PM

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144. "this is epic fail cloaked in grandiosity"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

>Niggas said they MAGICALLY CREATED the 2 TIGHT
>END sent because Deion Branch wasn't any good

they said what now? where? point that one out. lol.

>Probably the most clutch receiver in team history
>after (and maybe including) Troy Brown

wait, we're making a clutch argument now? lol.

>EXCEPT there was a WHOLE SEGMENT on NFL NETWORK on this
>TREND AROUND THE LEAGUE, DUMB ASS...LOTS of teams are
>transitioning THIS WAY...its the NEW STEP FORWARD in the
>LEAGUE...it works BEST IN NEW ENGLAND because they have
>the BEST QB who knows how to read shit

oh, well if NFL network said it, it must be true. tell me, what other teams are using a 2 TE base offense and having this success? and were they using it routinely in 2007 and 2008?

>Corners and safeties are RAISED to know how to defend
>vertical wide receivers...NOT athletic, physical tight
>ends
>
>Its a MATCHUP thing
>
>>again, no shit.

funny, my reply just above still works here. again, no shit.

>I've seen it

wow. i actually bet you've more likely seen hernandez split wide as a WR along with a 3 WR set.

>They don't any SINGLE base very much, that's why
>they are impossible to gameplan for

no. they primarily use two te's and 2 wrs and 1 rb.
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/category/_/name/positional-groupings

remember, in game 3 they didn't even DRESS a second TE, so obviously, that's an outlier. in game 4 they played with 2 TEs a lot even though their second TE was a former practice squad OT who they called up primarily to block.

>Dumb ass

when hernandez and gronk were both healthy, they played with at least 2 TEs over 75% of the time.

-----------
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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 09:14 PM

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162. "^^^Says the Patriots invented the slant pattern"
In response to Reply # 144


  

          


They invented it to cover up Randy Moss' diminishing
skills?

Right?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHA
HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
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HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 07:51 AM

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173. "^believes that was clever."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

been fun toying with you here.

-----------
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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 10:40 AM

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176. "Wait--the Patriots invented the 4-3?? Ohh word? "
In response to Reply # 173


  

          


Thas whassup



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:45 PM

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112. "not at all what you said."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

but i'm glad you admit what I said is far better than what you said.

you said "Its clearly the offense." Not "it's the offense that is structured, largely, around welker" but "its clearly the offense." You then made incorrect and dumb points about Branch and Edelman.

>And what about Edelman? Put up VERY good numbers
>when Welker was out. He's barey a #5 receiver
>at this point

point to where edelman's numbers compete, at all, with what Welker's done. and note the losing nature of edelman's best games and how bad brady looked, overall in those games compared to how he looks with welker on the field.


-----------
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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:50 PM

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119. "Y'all are sounding a tad mad. Just a tad. "
In response to Reply # 112


  

          


>you said "Its clearly the offense." Not "it's the offense that
>is structured, largely, around welker" but "its clearly the
>offense." You then made incorrect and dumb points about Branch
>and Edelman.

Uh -- it is clearly the offense. It also Welker being
good at what he does.


>point to where edelman's numbers compete, at all, with what
>Welker's done. and note the losing nature of edelman's best
>games and how bad brady looked, overall in those games
>compared to how he looks with welker on the field.

Uh. I didn't say Edelman was a good as Welker, dumb
fuck McMuffin. I said Edelman looked world's better
in THIS offense than he would in any other. Why? The
offense is fantastic. All you have to be is not an
idiot to perform well.

Even the RUNNING backs -- Woodhead, JGE, and now the
nigga from LSU -- they all do well, none are that good.

There's a reason Woodhead was CUT from every team.

He thrived in NE? Why? The offense.

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:55 PM

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123. "i don't understand why you're discounting welker"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

while also claiming he's in the top 4-7 in the league.

>Uh -- it is clearly the offense. It also Welker being
>good at what he does.

so it's not "clearly the offense." it's the offense + welker being great. got it. cool.

>Uh. I didn't say Edelman was a good as Welker, dumb
>fuck McMuffin. I said Edelman looked world's better
>in THIS offense than he would in any other. Why? The
>offense is fantastic. All you have to be is not an
>idiot to perform well.

he played 1.5 games in this offense and the offense STALLED without Welker. Brady looked average without welker. welker isn't just a player in the offense, welker is, quite clearly imo, the 2nd most important cog in the offense (obviously brady is #1).

>Even the RUNNING backs -- Woodhead, JGE, and now the
>nigga from LSU -- they all do well, none are that good.

welker's not just doing "well" he's leading the league and dominating games. this is where it sounds like you're discounting his excellence.


>There's a reason Woodhead was CUT from every team.

he got cut from one team that didn't want to cut him but had to pick between him and their just-picked 4th rounder and was hoping to sneak him onto the practice squad.

>He thrived in NE? Why? The offense.

again, what woodhead did is nowhere near as impressive as what welker's doing. apples and oranges.

-----------
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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:59 PM

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127. ""Welker is fast and nice as shit" (c) Orbit_Established"
In response to Reply # 123


  

          


>so it's not "clearly the offense." it's the offense + welker
>being great. got it. cool.

That is what I said ORIGINALLY.


>he played 1.5 games in this offense and the offense STALLED
>without Welker. Brady looked average without welker. welker
>isn't just a player in the offense, welker is, quite clearly
>imo, the 2nd most important cog in the offense (obviously
>brady is #1).

The offense looked stymied against the Jets in the
playoffs too


>welker's not just doing "well" he's leading the league and
>dominating games. this is where it sounds like you're
>discounting his excellence.

No, I'm not.

He's perfect for that offense.

PERFECT.

He gets TONS of credit.

Good for him.



>he got cut from one team that didn't want to cut him but had
>to pick between him and their just-picked 4th rounder and was
>hoping to sneak him onto the practice squad.

No, they weren't. Woodhead was not good, and was cut.

He comes to New England and BALLS.


Why?


The offense.

>>He thrived in NE? Why? The offense.
>
>again, what woodhead did is nowhere near as impressive as what
>welker's doing. apples and oranges.


BWAHAHAHAHA

Who the fuck said they are the same?

I'm saying the OFFENSIVE SYSTEM maximizes players
with certain skills who wouldn't thrive in other
systems.

Its a FACT.


Jesus -- just admit it.


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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mcdeezjawns
Charter member
26056 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 11:41 AM

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66. "But those 3 can't do what welkah does, just as he cant do what they do"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Welkah's not going to beat you by being thrown back shoulder jump balls in the endzone the way those guys do, but those guys aren't going to beat you by lining up in the slot and catching quick slants over the middle and getting their heads knocked off 10 times a game

LOL @ the thought of megatron doin his work where welker does

He's absolutely a top 5 receiver in this league, and has been for a few years now. Just admit you were 100% wrong about him

meanwhile Randy's thinking about #occupyingwallstreet because he's #realfuckinunemployed

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:32 PM

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107. "Okay, so basically Welker isn't as good as any of them. Thanks. "
In response to Reply # 66


  

          



No reason to cop pleas


Welker isn't as good as the big 3

Not even close, really


I'd put him at about 7 overall, which is nothing
to sneeze at

But the top 3 are leaps and bounds better than everyone
else


>Welkah's not going to beat you by being thrown back shoulder
>jump balls in the endzone the way those guys do, but those
>guys aren't going to beat you by lining up in the slot and
>catching quick slants over the middle and getting their heads
>knocked off 10 times a game
>
>LOL @ the thought of megatron doin his work where welker does





>He's absolutely a top 5 receiver in this league, and has been
>for a few years now. Just admit you were 100% wrong about him
>
>meanwhile Randy's thinking about #occupyingwallstreet because
>he's #realfuckinunemployed

This is what I mean about white people -- you don't know
how to just get go of niggas and just relish in the fact
that you're better off.

Just like the Manny situation -- he's the best Red Sock
since Ted Williams and the biggest reason you broke the
curse but y'all laughing at domestic abuse now...its sad.


Randy's career is also better than Welker's, and in both
of their primes, there isn't an offensive coordinator in
the galaxy who would take Welker over Randy. Not one


And Tom's best season will always be the one where Randy
was the #1 target...not really a debate



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:41 PM

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110. "Right now, this is Tom's best season by far"
In response to Reply # 107


          

He's on pace to destroy Marino's record.

But I agree with your main point. The top three are on a different level. But I think Wes is definitely in the discussion with the other guys from 4 to 7.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:46 PM

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113. "LOL. Okay, so basically Welker isn't anywhere near the top 3. "
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

>He's on pace to destroy Marino's record.

Cam Newton is on pace to finish top 10 all time
in passing yards too.

That Brady season wasn't only special because of the
yards. That season was better than this one.

But doesn't matter -- Ain't like Welker catching
23 touchdown passes. Moss did.

>But I agree with your main point. The top three are on a
>different level. But I think Wes is definitely in the
>discussion with the other guys from 4 to 7.

Ok, so basically Welker isn't on the same level as the
top 3.


Jesus Christ, white people. Just STOP.



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:48 PM

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115. "Where did the top 3 talk come from?"
In response to Reply # 113


          

The question was 3 - 5 and while I would say no to 3, I'd say he's in the conversation for 4 or 5.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:56 PM

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124. "Okay, so basically Welker isn't as good as any of them. Thanks."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

>The question was 3 - 5 and while I would say no to 3, I'd say
>he's in the conversation for 4 or 5.

Glad you guys admit that.


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:00 PM

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130. "Again, when was that the question?"
In response to Reply # 124


          

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:09 PM

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135. "Okay, so basically Welker isn't as good as any of them. Thanks."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          


Cry, crybaby crryyyyy


BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHH


Niggas in here HEATED!!!!


Goddamn

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:13 PM

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137. "Strawman Established"
In response to Reply # 135


          

Thanks for playing.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:20 PM

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140. "MadHonky. "
In response to Reply # 137


  

          


Why mad?

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Oct-04-11 03:24 PM

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141. "Wes Welker is the Brad Pitt of the NFL"
In response to Reply # 140


          

People keep hatin' on the straight, white tough receivers. Rather root for the flamboyant ones. I see it.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:30 PM

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142. "Now you sound like the guys over at C@@@E Football. "
In response to Reply # 141


  

          


Matter of fact, most of this post is like a
C@@@STE Football forum post.


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 03:33 PM

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143. "Nice analogy, Orbit Williams Jr."
In response to Reply # 142


          

Welker is a top 10 receiver. Deal with it.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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mcdeezjawns
Charter member
26056 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 06:39 PM

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155. "FuriousNegro!"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

mad and makin shit up...providing your own strawmans and shit

I love it

classic OE

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 06:25 PM

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154. "bwhahahahah"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:24 PM

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8. "he's good at what he does but he doesn't scare any defense"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the Pats have a good system that he fits perfectly. Not to mention he has the best QB in the league throwing him the ball. i can easily name 5 receivers that would do way more damage with Brady throwing them the ball.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:28 PM

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11. "^^^ this"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:31 PM

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15. "like who? Moss? Ocho?"
In response to Reply # 8
Mon Oct-03-11 10:32 PM by southphillyman

  

          

> i can easily name 5 receivers that would do way more
>damage with Brady throwing them the ball.

u got mega, fitz, andre johnson*
then who?
vincent jackson? d.jack?






*the nnamdi of WRs imo

~~~~~~

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
16160 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:04 PM

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23. "Man, any DC who isn't scared by a guy averaging 150 per..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

...should be fired immediately.

I mean, you think he sneaks up on teams? Like in Tuesday film, coaches are sitting around saying, "wow, I had no idea we had to cover him too!"

  

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CyrenYoung
Charter member
34204 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:43 PM

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30. "FOH..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

..every team with a game scheduled against the pats have TWO things on their defensive boards for that week:

brady

welker

while wes might not be the prototype of an elite wr, he's in that group because of the way the pats successfully move him around the field and disguise him in coverage.

*and anyone doubtin' his speed is foolish. nobody runs slants better than welker right now. hell, most of the time, the dbs KNOW when he's on a slant, and he STILL beats them to the punch for the ball.

brady has the greatest amount of respect for him (with good reason) 'cause he does everything you need an elite wr to do...


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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31. "Stop Brady is all they're thinking"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I guess if Jordy Nelson has a few more games like he's been having y'all will be hyping him up too.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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CyrenYoung
Charter member
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35. "yeah, that MUST be it..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

..it can't possibly have anything to do with the fact that his main target @ wr shows incredible consistency

show me another wr in the game that consistently competes at this level


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue Oct-04-11 06:12 AM

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39. "the numbers look nice but"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

It's just stat padding to me. Dude is not a threat.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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CyrenYoung
Charter member
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46. "paddington bear..."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

..takin' a shit on teams every year.

comin' to a field near you...



..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Oct-04-11 08:31 AM

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48. "Really? That's one hell of a pad."
In response to Reply # 39


          

Dude's on pace to obliterate records and you credit it to stat padding?

I agree he's not a textbook elite receiver but to dismiss the shit he's doing this year while being the #1 receiver on the team is just kind of silly. He'd be a dangerous weapon on any team and would improve any team's offense if added.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 09:12 AM

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53. "RE: Really? That's one hell of a pad."
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

>Dude's on pace to obliterate records and you credit it to
>stat padding?
>
>I agree he's not a textbook elite receiver but to dismiss the
>shit he's doing this year while being the #1 receiver on the
>team is just kind of silly. He'd be a dangerous weapon on any
>team and would improve any team's offense if added.

I'd like to see him on another team. What did he do prior to coming to NE? I think his success is due to Brady and the system. All kinds of offensive records are being broken due to the nature of the game nowadays.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Oct-04-11 11:57 AM

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72. "Yeah, his pace right now is just how the game is going."
In response to Reply # 53


          

Jesus christ, you can't even admit that the guy is on an otherworldly pace right now?

The hate is strong in this one.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue Oct-04-11 12:03 PM

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79. "RE: Yeah, his pace right now is just how the game is going."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

You can't admit that the system allows him to put up those numbers. He's killing it in NE but I'm not gonna pretend that he'd be beasting like this on other teams.

******************************************
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Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Oct-04-11 12:05 PM

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80. "you're right. only the pats can use slot receivers well"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

not a single other team can figure it out.

and it's all the system. which is why the slot receiver in denver put up great numbers when McDaniels (who created the system) went there, right?

-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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85. "i don't know. who were the slot receivers in Denver?"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

and was Brady there? because that's been my point. go read all of my posts. dude has one of the GOAT's throwing him the ball and the NE system is set up for him to get those type of numbers. he's pretty much their running back.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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89. "exactly my point."
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

you don't even KNOW the name of the guy everyone thought would replicate Welker's numbers in Denver (eddie royal). Why? because he didn't do shit because you need to actually be damn good to put up those types of numbers, system or not. brady or orton.

>ball and the NE system is set up for him to get those type of
>numbers. he's pretty much their running back.

and that's not elite? One of the best offenses in the league treats a WR as "basically their RB" and that's NOT impressive to you?!?

-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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98. "It's damn impressive but"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

There are still 6 or 7 receivers I'd take over Welker. He's not top 5 to me. That's all I'm saying.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:19 PM

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103. "So you're saying he's a top 10 WR in the league"
In response to Reply # 98


          

He's a system-based, QB-reliant, stat padding WR but maybe the 7th best WR in the league?

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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117. "RE: So you're saying he's a top 10 WR in the league"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

He's good just not elite is what I'm saying

******************************************
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Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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118. "and 7th best in the league apparently is not "elite""
In response to Reply # 103


  

          


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Oct-04-11 12:32 PM

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82. "Wrong. I said he wouldn't be putting up these crazy numbers"
In response to Reply # 79


          

But he'd still put up very good numbers on other teams and he'd be a weapon like he is in NE.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
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86. "we can agree to disagree then because he's not elite in my book"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

he's good though.

******************************************
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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:52 PM

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32. "welker runs like a bulldog"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

http://40-yard-dash-times.com/wes-welker-40-yard-dash-time.html

4.6 40 time
(4.55 according to wiki)

~~~~~~

  

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CyrenYoung
Charter member
34204 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 12:12 AM

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34. "you can tout all the test you want..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

..nothin' compares to speed on the field of play durin' an actual game

he's fast enough to get it done and he's been doin' that consistently no matter who he faces.



..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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The Real
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54. "What was Jerry Rice's 40 time?"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Then watch the film and see him running away from people. There are 2 types of speed. Shorts and t-shirt speed and game day speed.

Jerry had game day speed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

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forgivenphoenix
Member since Dec 08th 2007
2514 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:06 PM

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97. "i believe it's only like 4.5 or something like that."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

it's the main reason he wasn't a higher draft pick if i remember right.

__________________________________________

http://www.twitter.com/chriscjamison/

People who don't take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year. People who do take risks generally make about two big mistakes a year.

Peter Drucker

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
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185. "hard to find accurate time now but Ive heard anywhere from 4.5 to 4.7"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

> it's the main reason he wasn't a higher draft pick if i
>remember right.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:25 PM

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9. "YAC...bcz they use short passes like a running game"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:28 PM

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12. "his YAC are middle of the pack for a WR and not in the top 50 overall"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

+40 catches
no.

~~~~~~

  

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Jon
Charter member
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14. "this is true...edelman's actually much better after the catch"
In response to Reply # 12


          

i could think of a slew of other receivers as well.

welker's magic is mostly in getting open and making clutch plays

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Mon Oct-03-11 10:33 PM

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16. "basically"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          


>welker's magic is mostly in getting open and making clutch
>plays

~~~~~~

  

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will_5198
Charter member
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Tue Oct-04-11 05:47 AM

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38. "nah, his YAC is extremely high"
In response to Reply # 12


          

no receiver above him has more than 17 catches. it's more than 3 yards higher per catch than Andre Johnson, Hakeem Nicks, Larry Fitzgerald, Roddy White, Megatron, Vincent Jackson, etc.

--------

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Tue Oct-04-11 07:02 AM

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42. "RE: nah, his YAC is extremely high"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

what i saw was 5.5 it's actually 7.7
2 yard difference
iono maybe the site i was looking at was showing last weeks numbers since there was still a game left iono

~~~~~~

  

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will_5198
Charter member
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Tue Oct-04-11 07:29 AM

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44. "even 5.5 is really high"
In response to Reply # 42


          

TO average 5.3 for his career

--------

  

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Jon
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13. "its almost like they need to consider it a different position"
In response to Reply # 9


          

not exactly, but comparing a classic wideout to someone who does welker's job is somewhat apples/oranges

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:46 PM

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17. "slot machine.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Recovery?????

http://www.cehwiedel.com/blogs/traces-pix/2010/09/CalcRisk-JobLosses.jpg

  

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Buck
Member since Feb 15th 2005
16160 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 10:51 PM

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18. "Because he gets separation."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Fast is nice, tall us great, and athletic is fantastic (though anyone saying he ain't athletic doesn't know what athletic is). But if you can get separation, you can catch balls.

  

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bshelly
Charter member
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19. "Welker=replies"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:03 PM

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21. "+1 (actually 2)"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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Bombastic
Charter member
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159. "um....how the fock is Wes Welker avg 150+ replies per post?"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 08:38 PM

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160. "Slow day at work"
In response to Reply # 159


          

That was my excuse.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:15 PM

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25. "Randy Moss"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:27 PM

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26. "lol."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

  

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T Reynolds
Member since Apr 16th 2007
42760 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:33 PM

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28. "The Billy Hoyle of Football"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

With the gray sweatshirts and baggy socks doing stretches and the whole nine

  

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RobOne4
Member since Jun 06th 2003
56697 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 07:09 AM

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198. "its hard god damn work making something this pretty"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

look like a chump or a geek

November 8th, 2005 The greatest night in the history of GD!

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:42 PM

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29. "i see everyone abandoned the "He has a deep threat" excuse"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

good idea.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Mon Oct-03-11 11:53 PM

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33. "he was decoying the decoy"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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RexLongfellow
Charter member
18296 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 12:26 AM

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36. "I'll Man Up And Take This L"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

I thought he'd be average without Moss, and Ocho ain't playing decent at all

So I'm man enough to say I was WAY WRONG about Uncle Wes...dude is a beast at his own right. The TE's being beasts too help his cause, but dude doesn't drop shit, and gets TD's being 5'9 at best

  

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Lesson24
Member since Nov 10th 2008
1046 posts
Thu Oct-06-11 08:37 AM

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180. "*takes note*"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

________________________________
Knicks-Ewing/Jackson, Eagles-Cunningham & Mets-Strawberry/Gooden

http://soundcloud.com/relativeviscosity
http://twitter.com/Relative_Visc
XBL: Lesson24

Music

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 01:13 AM

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37. "3 words"
In response to Reply # 0


          

West Coast Offense.

It pulls everyone in, including the safties, so if there is one missed tackle, that is all she wrote.....The west coast offense is a means to an end:YAC

Put him in a basic offense and his stats would be shit. ...The system is turning avg wrs into elite wrs.





  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 06:17 AM

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40. "Thank you"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

That's all I'm saying. It's the system and the fact he has Brady throwing him the ball. Put him in Detroit, Atlanta, Houston, etc. and his numbers aren't the same because he's not a true #1 WR.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
90059 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 06:48 AM

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41. "i think they run more of a spread. they barely pass to the RBs"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 08:55 AM

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50. "RE: i think they run more of a spread. they barely pass to the RBs"
In response to Reply # 41
Tue Oct-04-11 08:55 AM by all stah

          

West Coast is a spread offense. ..

It spreads the defense : )

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 09:03 AM

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52. "they mainly run a two TE set."
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB is their base.

-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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will_5198
Charter member
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Tue Oct-04-11 09:26 AM

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55. "true, but still a spread really"
In response to Reply # 52


          

Brady lines up in shotgun, and they split out Gronkowski and Hernandez frequently -- both of which you have to cover with defensive backs. instead of Moss drawing rolled coverage, now the tight ends are the deep threats by controlling the seams (the Raiders were doubling the shit out of Gronkowski last Sunday).

--------

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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43. "I'd say Welker is the best slot receiver in the NFL."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Can't compare him to Dre/Fitz/Megatron, cuz he has a different skillset.

But the success he has is obviously directly related to the system he's in. Whereas if you put Dre/Fitz/Megatron/Jennings/VJax in any system, they will find big success.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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47. "Nah. He'd be very good on any team. Replace Mike Thomas with him..."
In response to Reply # 43


          

and Welker might not add touchdowns but he'd probably average 85 - 100 yards a game and still be up there in terms of top receivers. In fact, you could argue that he'd fare better than some of the big receivers because he gets open on shorter routes that Gabbert could hit and he's harder to focus on and shut down than deep threats.

Slot receivers can't win. If they do well, it's because of the deep threat. If there's no deep threat, it's because of the system.

And to argue that he wouldn't do as well as he is in New England is kind of hollow. Yeah, he wouldn't do as well as being on pace for 160 catches and 2400 yards and 20 touchdowns. If he was only half as good as he has been this year, he's still be one of the better receivers in the NFL.


----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Frank Longo
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152. "Oh, you misunderstood me."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

He's definitely good enough to be the best receiver on most of the teams in the NFL. I just don't think he's Top 5.

I don't mean it as Welker hate. I just meant to clarify that it's unfair to compare him to Dre Day and Megatron because their skillsets and specialties are different.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Oct-04-11 10:51 AM

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56. "I really can't believe he still gets hate"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

yeah, the offense is part of it, but to act like he'd be a bum, or even mediocre on another team is just hate. 150 yards a game so far? lol, you guys will discount anything.

First it was "He has Brady." Then he did well without Brady.
Next it was "He has Moss, whether as a deep threat or as a decoy." Then he did well without Moss. Took a little while, but he did.
Next it was "Well Branch is doing well now." Except Branch isn't the deep threat Moss was, and Welker has done well with or without Branch being a factor.
Now it's mostly the system? C'mon guys. It's exactly what Buck said: he gets separation. No, he's not the most skilled receiver, but he's GREAT at that. I mean do you guys actually watch him?

I mean someone in here said defenses are not worried about him. lol, what?

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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57. "What did he do prior to NE?"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

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Ceej
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58. "Led a shitty Dolphin team in receptions only starting 2 games"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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62. "not to mention that people on here"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

can NOT comprehend a player getting better. there just has to be something else afoot!!! clearly his sh*ttiest season is the only one that counts.

  

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Ceej
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64. "People know and HATE that hes good"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

And that really bothers them.

Not sure WHY but it does.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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70. "RE: People know and HATE that hes good"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

No knock on welker. He's not elite. He's only elite in fantasy leagues. Dude is putting up monster numbers in the NE system. He's kicking ass!

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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67. "Would he have the same numbers elsewhere?"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

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Ceej
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69. "lol. "
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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73. "You can laugh but you know it's true"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

The NE system allows him to put up those kind of numbers.

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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75. "Just like Julian Edelman did when Welker was out... oh wait..."
In response to Reply # 73


          

Please.

----
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mcdeezjawns
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76. "Pssst...EVERY receiver plays "in a system""
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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88. "RE: Pssst...EVERY receiver plays "in a system""
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

elite receivers can make a bad QB look good. i don't think Welker would. i think Brady makes him look good just like Manning makes most of the okay receivers look good in Indy.

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thejerseytornado
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90. "Welker puts up Reggie Wayne numbers, not Garcon numbers"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

and in his firstyear getting to be a full-time WR (his only year before NE), he had 67 and 687 with 2 starts and Joey Harrington as his QB for most of the season.

-----------
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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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92. "Matt Cassell says hi."
In response to Reply # 88


          

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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thejerseytornado
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93. "damn. he walked right into that one."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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SoulHonky
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94. "#2 in league in receptions, #9 in league in yards without Brady"
In response to Reply # 93


          

so I guess it's just the system.

----
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thejerseytornado
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96. "+ helped cassel to his highest yards + best completion rate"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

you know, the matt cassel who had Jamaal Charles and Dwayne Bowe helping him last year.

-----------
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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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102. "so now we're gonna pretend that Moss wasn't there"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

with just under 70 catches, over 1,000 yards and caught 11 of his 21 TD passes. let's not play this game. Welker is good but not elite.

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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104. "LOL. So when Brady's gone, you lean back on the Moss excuse?"
In response to Reply # 102
Tue Oct-04-11 02:21 PM by SoulHonky

          

Please. He's not elite... just possibly the 7th best receiver in the NFL.

Give the man his due. He's a top receiver in the league.

----
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Ceej
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105. "Elite ends at 6"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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121. "It ends at 3 actually"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

I just said there's 6 or 7 receivers I'd take over him.

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Ceej
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125. "You go girl."
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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131. "i'm not the one with my panties in a bunch"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

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Ceej
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132. "I can see that. "
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Oct-04-11 03:18 PM

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138. "Where did the top 3 talk come from?"
In response to Reply # 121


          

Seriously? SPM asked if he was 3 - 5 in the league. I think you can make an argument for 4 - 7 which makes him a great receiver.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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156. "RE: Where did the top 3 talk come from?"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

He said at some point does he need to be considered elite. My answer right now is no. There are only three elite receivers IMO. he also asked whether he was in the top 3 to 5 WR. He's in the top 10. I still say there are 6 to 7 receivers better than him.

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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128. "What Moss excuse?"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

Moss was a stud his first few years in NE. matter of fact, Brady had his best year ever with Moss.

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SoulHonky
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134. "People here said he was only good because of Moss "
In response to Reply # 128


          

Then Moss left and suddenly the reason he was good was because of Brady and the system.

----
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mcdeezjawns
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99. "have you seen a Chiefs game this year?"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

>elite receivers can make a bad QB look good.

Now think back to '08 here in NE

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00.htm

  

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Lach
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148. "um, Reggie Wayne is elite period"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

Let's not act like Indy has nothing.

  

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thejerseytornado
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77. "chicken, meet egg. egg, meet chicken."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

wait, which of you was first??!?!?!?

-----------
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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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78. "So is Chad not in the system??"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

Why come NO ONE else is doing "system" numbers like Wesley?

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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87. "is Chad past his prime? yes"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

does Brady have the chemistry with Chad that he does with Welker? no

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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83. ""yeah, the offense is part of it"- Me"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

so no, he wouldn't have the SAME numbers elsewhere. would he be a bum? no, not even close. he'd still be very good because he knows how to get separation. you'd know that if you watched him

see how easy that was? i didn't even have to discredit anyone!!!

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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71. "Did better than Roddy White and Vincent Jackson's first two years"
In response to Reply # 57


          

But yes, if Welker had to play his entire career with Gus Frerrotte and Joey Harrington, he wouldn't put up the same numbers. Then again, I'm not sure there's any wide receiver ever that wouldn't be able to say the same thing.

----
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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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91. "RE: Did better than Roddy White and Vincent Jackson's first two years"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

yet i guarantee any coach not named Belichick would pick Roddy and Vincent over Wes

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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95. "Roddy, maybe. I think VJackson's overrated"
In response to Reply # 91


          

Malcolm Floyd put up similar numbers in Jackson's slot last year.

----
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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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Tue Oct-04-11 09:15 PM

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163. "LMAO. You've never seen Vincent Jackson play. "
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

>Malcolm Floyd put up similar numbers in Jackson's slot last
>year.

LOL

Seriously, STFU

You've literally never seen Vincent Jackson play.

Ask any San Diego Chargers fan if Malcom Floyd and
Vincent Jackson are anywhere near the same fucking
player.

LOL

Dumbass

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
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Tue Oct-04-11 09:24 PM

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164. "From the guy who said Edelman put up big numbers in Welker's spot"
In response to Reply # 163


          

See what I did there.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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168. "^^^^^^^"
In response to Reply # 164


  

          

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
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170. "Interesting. Y'all done resorted to lying and diverting. "
In response to Reply # 168


  

          



We can do that.


Soulhonky said he lets turtles lick his balls.


No joke.


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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177. "SPM asked if he was top 3"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

I don't believe anyone answered in the affirmative.

  

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southphillyman
Member since Oct 22nd 2003
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Tue Oct-04-11 11:32 AM

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59. "ppl let agendas ruin their perspective"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

~~~~~~

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
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Tue Oct-04-11 11:33 AM

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60. "lmao "
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 11:35 AM

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63. "hahaha"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 11:33 AM

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61. "I'm not comfortable with Brady going to him so much"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In the playoffs, Welker will be taken away, Brady will get little time to throw, and my frustration will mount. I need Brady to develop something with Chad before the season is over. Or I'm afraid we'll have another repeat of last year's playoffs especially with the defense getting worse.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Oct-04-11 11:41 AM

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65. "I don't have as much of a problem with this"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

because I love the TEs, but I would like the deep threat to develop in Chad. And I still don't know if we can trust the running game if things aren't going exactly as planned in the passing game.

Mostly I hate the defense though.

  

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Bombastic
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Tue Oct-04-11 11:49 AM

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68. "Chad ain't a deep threat or threat of any kind anymore"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

>because I love the TEs, but I would like the deep threat to
>develop in Chad. And I still don't know if we can trust the
>running game if things aren't going exactly as planned in the
>passing game.
>
>Mostly I hate the defense though.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 12:00 PM

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74. "I feel the same way"
In response to Reply # 61


          

I especially want to see the running backs get a little more involved. I think Ridley could be deadly in space. I also thought Price showed something in pre-season. Ochocinco seems like he's slowly coming around. I think by the second half of the season, he'll be getting more looks.

I'm surprised that Branch has fallen off a cliff though. Barely getting any targets the last couple of games.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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cereffusion
Charter member
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Tue Oct-04-11 03:00 PM

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129. "that D is going to let up 65 in the playoffs"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

worry about that first.

the TEs, if healthy, will make up for Welker.

  

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Lach
Charter member
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Tue Oct-04-11 04:11 PM

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146. "you're inadvertently cursing the Sox. stop it"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Oct-04-11 05:06 PM

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151. "have you followed the Pats posts?"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

I know you have, we're all worried about the D.

man, you don't know what to focus on after the L this week.

  

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Oak27
Member since Apr 17th 2005
13192 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 06:57 PM

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157. "and the raiders arent gonna let up a single point in the offseason"
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

  

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emeyesi
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10914 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 10:07 PM

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166. "^^^ Ha. "
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

.imageyenation.dot.com.

  

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cereffusion
Charter member
29598 posts
Thu Oct-06-11 11:17 AM

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182. "Nah, the defense isn't that good"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

  

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electricflower
Member since Sep 18th 2003
1721 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 12:27 PM

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81. "seen him at foxy ladies in providence "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i think people hate him caus they seen IP MAN 2 and think he's the white devil

numbers look crooked like king kong shook it - jdilla

  

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jigga
Charter member
31583 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 01:09 PM

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84. "The game is all in the name"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Ish
Member since May 07th 2011
2028 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:41 PM

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109. "He runs his routes and is always trying to get that extra yard."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He's a gritty player.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 02:52 PM

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120. "i'm disappointed it took this long to get "gritty""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

he's average 150+ by being "Scrappy" and "playing the right way." His superior football intelligence is also helpful, clearly.

-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 04:09 PM

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145. "'cism"
In response to Reply # 120


          

"superior football intelligence"

  

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V3rb
Member since Jul 20th 2008
7675 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 04:16 PM

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149. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

http://hypevercab.bandcamp.com

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 06:03 PM

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153. "wooooooooooooosh"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 08:48 PM

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161. "RE: wooooooooooooosh"
In response to Reply # 153
Tue Oct-04-11 08:49 PM by all stah

          

nope...you should have said "football intelligence"only...Nope! you put superior in there

supremacist white power message

cism!

  

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Jon
Charter member
18687 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 12:10 AM

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169. "round trip whoooooosh lol"
In response to Reply # 161


          

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 01:20 AM

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171. "RE: round trip whoooooosh lol"
In response to Reply # 169
Wed Oct-05-11 01:20 AM by all stah

          

My bollocks strangling your trachea - round trip GUSSSH!

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 07:52 AM

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175. "i know you hate me, but learn what a joke is."
In response to Reply # 171


  

          


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 04:12 PM

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147. "BTW"
In response to Reply # 0


          

OE does it again.


dude just keep dropping albums

lol

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 04:57 PM

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150. "Y'all acting like it's just the system and HE GOT TO GO RUN SLANTS"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Oct-04-11 04:57 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

Naw they're deploying Welker deep now. It's not just dink and dunk anymore.

_______________________________________

  

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Brother Grifter
Member since Apr 07th 2003
2118 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 09:47 PM

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165. "Rule changes+offense+natural skill+experience"
In response to Reply # 0


          

As much as I want to hate on the lil' guy and say it's all due to rule changes, I think it is mostly the other stuff.

Right now we're seeing that point where an athlete's mental game and his physical peak are intersecting. He has the offense down pat, knows how to play with Brady and vice versa, and he just has crazy quicks.His stop to start to top speed is pretty elite right now and defenses can't keep up with him.

  

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all stah
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
23470 posts
Tue Oct-04-11 10:23 PM

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167. "RE: Rule changes+offense+natural skill+experience"
In response to Reply # 165


          

steve smith better...

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Wed Oct-05-11 07:51 AM

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174. "honestly, quite a few guys are better"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

I'd rather Welker be our #2 target.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Oct-06-11 10:53 AM

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181. "I'd like to hear niggas argue that Welker is better than Steve Smith"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          


That would be fun.



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Thu Oct-06-11 02:44 PM

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183. "before this season I would have."
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

his QBs were bad, but he still looked as if he was in decline though. He's had a renaissance with Cam though, that's for sure.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Oct-06-11 02:48 PM

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184. "So basically, Steve Smith is eons fucking better. "
In response to Reply # 183


  

          


And been good for a lot longer, with a wider
range of QBs.

And not being thrown to by the best QB to ever play


I'm hearing you.


Again -- QB matters. System matters.


Welker plays with the best QB ever. In a fantastic
system.


He's still a great player, but niggas need to fall on
back.


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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AlBundy
Member since May 27th 2002
9621 posts
Thu Oct-06-11 03:26 AM

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178. "20+ targets a game"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

fuck Welkah

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Thu Oct-06-11 06:53 AM

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179. "you mean an average of 14?"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Sat Dec-24-11 08:47 PM

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186. "I'll just up this now."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Shit.. I'll even take a small L. He's gotta be considered top 3 now, right?

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Dec-24-11 08:52 PM

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187. "Odd uppage. He's not even the best receiver on his team. "
In response to Reply # 186


  

          


That would be the Tight End.


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Sat Dec-24-11 08:58 PM

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188. "uhhh no."
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

and Gronkowski is a beast, will truck dudes, and has to be taken down by practically the whole defense... but Welker is better.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Dec-24-11 09:07 PM

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189. "LMAO. You just proved that you don't watch the games"
In response to Reply # 188


  

          


You're a sportscenter intellectual, and you proved it
in this post

>and Gronkowski is a beast, will truck dudes, and has to be
>taken down by practically the whole defense... but Welker is
>better.

Which one do defenses spend more time preparing for?

Gronk or Welker?

Gronkowski, no discussion.

That you just talked about Gronk's tackle breaking
just shows that you don't watch the games, because
his greatness is independent of those bullshit 2 or
3 highlights of sportscenter...he's uncoverable and
shreds defenses in multiple ways...I study games, you watch sportscenter, you basically just gave yourself away

And you have to judge receivers by watching the games,
or else you'll come to all sorts of awesome conclusions
like Victor Cruz > Larry Fitzgerald

LMAO

You don't watch the games, though


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Sat Dec-24-11 09:53 PM

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191. "gronks a beast"
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

but people really need to stop denying that Welker is elite.

-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sat Dec-24-11 10:02 PM

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192. "You just fucked yourself up in this post. You don't watch football. "
In response to Reply # 191


  

          

>but people really need to stop denying that Welker is elite.

Welker has flown under the radar because he's great at
what he does, but he's not close to the most talented
throwing target of Tom Brady. Gronk is the one that gives
defenses the biggest headache.

You're talking about bullshit tackle-breaking highlights.

Not the matchups. Not the patterns.

Welker runs underneath and in space beautifully. He puts
up monster numbers in an offense where they don't run
the ball, at all.

But he's not elite. His numbers are far better than
Larry Fitzgerald's and he's not in the same tier as
a wide receiver. To suggest otherwise would be a lie
from someone who deosn't watch football.


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Sat Dec-24-11 11:04 PM

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195. "gtfoh with all that garbage"
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

for someone who watches the game you sure don't seem to appreciate shit about the pats offense.

Weller has done his thing with trinket as a huge target, with moss as a huge target and without either of them.

he is the only consistent threat on perhaps the most amazing three year stretch of offense (would be five but that cassel year was only alright). moss left. gronk only became gronk this season. welkers been there the whole time.

respect is due. and considering Weller had a big deep catch yet again this game I doubt u actually watch.
-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 08:10 AM

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199. "LOL. You're just avoiding the CENTRAL issue. "
In response to Reply # 195
Sun Dec-25-11 08:26 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          


>Weller has done his thing with trinket as a huge target, with
>moss as a huge target and without either of them.

So?

Does this mean he's top 5 in the LEAGUE?

No. It just means he's awesome and consistent and
does his job as well as anyone does their job.

He's not top 5 in the league, though.

>he is the only consistent threat on perhaps the most amazing
>three year stretch of offense (would be five but that cassel
>year was only alright). moss left. gronk only became gronk
>this season. welkers been there the whole time.

Actually, Gronk was good last year too.

But again -- none of this has anything to do with the point.




----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Sat Dec-24-11 10:42 PM

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194. "lol, no. wes is just that good at getting away."
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

and since you watch the games, you already know that.

defenses are doing exactly what they're told to do against both of them. they're trying to keep up with wes and they're trying to square up and tackle gronk. the problem is it doesn't matter with either of them. wes is gonna get separation and gronk is gonna run over most defenders and get another few yards. it's actually beautiful to watch both of them work.

i really don't understand why people have to either deny it or qualify it at this point. he's just great. no qualifiers anymore.

and yes, i do watch the games. that's a funny line to say to people, but you overuse it.

>And you have to judge receivers by watching the games,
>or else you'll come to all sorts of awesome conclusions
>like Victor Cruz > Larry Fitzgerald

uhhhh, no.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Mon Dec-26-11 07:15 PM

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216. "If you studied games like you claim..."
In response to Reply # 189
Mon Dec-26-11 07:15 PM by Brew

          

you'd realize that Gronk's mid-season explosion had a lot to do with the fact that teams were focusing two to three guys on Welker's side of the field and beating him up at the line of scrimmage, and allowing Gronk to run around all willy-nilly with linebackers eyeing him, after which he could catch a Brady pass and get those "sportscenter" highlights.

Gronk is a beast.

Welker is an elite, top 3-5 receiver right now, and for the better part of the past 5 years.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Sat Dec-24-11 09:12 PM

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190. "actually man. I gotta agree with O_E. Gronk is the best "
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

Welker is a great slot guy, but he's not a deep threat which kinda hurts us. The Patriots still need another wide receiver who can actually get open deep consistently. If it weren't for the tight ends Gronk and Hernandez this year, we'd of been in real trouble. Hernandez is probably the most versatile of the receivers. But Gronk is the hardest to stop.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Sat Dec-24-11 10:32 PM

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193. "at this point, his separation has made up for this:"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

>Welker is a great slot guy, but he's not a deep threat which
>kinda hurts us.

  

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LegacyNS
Member since Jan 16th 2004
38095 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 01:28 AM

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196. "I think Gronk is better too but it's clear that Worldwide Wes is a beast"
In response to Reply # 190


  

          


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=3F6F3E67-28B

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 06:55 AM

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197. "Wes is a beast. He's not top 5 and Gronk is better. "
In response to Reply # 196


  

          


That's all I'm saying.




----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 08:16 AM

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201. "Horrible problem the Pats have on their hands there"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 06:10 PM

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203. "the problem is the lack of a guy getting deep consistently"
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

against great defensive teams in the playoffs, it will probably be a struggle cuz they'll shrink the field on us. They'll also come at Brady hard which will end up requiring Gronk to be more of a blocker. Then on the other side the defense is lol. sigh. We'll see how this goes. I'm hoping for the best still.

  

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COOLEHMAGAZINE
Member since May 22nd 2007
5563 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 06:17 PM

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204. "RE: Wes is a beast. He's not top 5 and Gronk is better. "
In response to Reply # 197


          

Kinda apples and oranges IMO. Part of what makes Gronkowski a headache for defenses is also his position. Welker and Gronkowski play different positions that require different things...it's like asking who was better Alstott or Warrick Dunn (or Neal Anderson/Brad Muster or Shannon Sharpe/Sterling Sharpe)...people are going to have opinions but the query itself seems flawed.

I'm from the lost black tribe of Israel, the Yos

http://coolehmag.com/frontEnd/

  

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Rjcc
Charter member
94964 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 08:14 AM

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200. "both tight ends honestly. "
In response to Reply # 187


          


http://card.mygamercard.net/lastgame/rjcc.png

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 04:21 PM

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202. "wes has developed a long game more than i ever expected"
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

actually. it's not the primary part of his game by any means, but it's there.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Mon Dec-26-11 10:50 AM

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211. "LOL at him being one of the top three WR's"
In response to Reply # 186


  

          

just stop it.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 07:56 PM

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205. "Wes has people so mad they're calling tight ends wide receivers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

as great as any tight end has been, when was he ever compared to a wide receiver, even on his own team? I never saw people arguing Vincent Jackson vs. Antonio Gates.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 11:24 PM

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207. "Welker got Pats fans SHITTIN on GRONKOWSKI Bwahahahaha"
In response to Reply # 205


  

          

>as great as any tight end has been, when was he ever compared
>to a wide receiver, even on his own team? I never saw people
>arguing Vincent Jackson vs. Antonio Gates.

Ummmm dumb ass...BWAHAHAHA...Jackson JUST WENT THROUGH
a contract squabble with the Chargers SPECIFICALLY BECUZ
they said that when Gates is healthy they don't need
VJack...GATES, when healthy is EASILY the most dangerous
on that team...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you just ruined yourself
with that example

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Mon Dec-26-11 09:31 AM

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208. "lol, no. everyone is praising gronk"
In response to Reply # 207


  

          

we love the guy, he's great. you couldn't show me one example of a pats fan shitting on him if you tried. go ahead, try.

>Ummmm dumb ass...BWAHAHAHA...Jackson JUST WENT THROUGH
>a contract squabble with the Chargers SPECIFICALLY BECUZ
>they said that when Gates is healthy they don't need
>VJack...GATES, when healthy is EASILY the most dangerous
>on that team...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you just ruined yourself
>with that example

you mean they argued he was more VALUABLE than V Jack? yeah, of course. those arguments happen all the time at any position, especially at contract time. What they didn't do, and what no one does, is say "Antonio is a better receiver than you are." We're not talking about value, we're talking about position, because you just tried to place Welker and Gronk at the same position in what is probably your weakest attempt at discrediting Welker.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Mon Dec-26-11 09:43 AM

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209. "L nigga you are SHITTIN on GRONK"
In response to Reply # 208


  

          

>we love the guy, he's great. you couldn't show me one example
>of a pats fan shitting on him if you tried. go ahead, try.

Nah, you're BELITTLING his contributions

>you mean they argued he was more VALUABLE than V Jack? yeah,
>of course. those arguments happen all the time at any
>position, especially at contract time. What they didn't do,
>and what no one does, is say "Antonio is a better receiver
>than you are." We're not talking about value, we're talking
>about position, because you just tried to place Welker and
>Gronk at the same position in what is probably your weakest
>attempt at discrediting Welker.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Gronk is a better, more important receiving target than Welker

^^^Lawd O_E can't be beat


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Mon Dec-26-11 10:29 AM

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210. "by calling a dude who's been doing it consistently"
In response to Reply # 209


  

          

for YEARS better? ...riiiiiight. Welker's gonna finish in the top 2 in receiving yards for the 2nd time in 3 years. and besides last year, when he was coming back from the injury, he's been in the top 11 every year he's been with the Pats.

First, it was all Brady. Then it was all Moss. Then it was "But he doesn't score touchdownz!!!!" Then it was the system. Now, its all Gronk.

When is it gonna be Wes? Why are you so scared of giving him the credit he deserves?

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 08:18 AM

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217. "the less important and worse of the two"
In response to Reply # 210
Tue Dec-27-11 08:19 AM by thejerseytornado

  

          

is leading the league right today in yards and catches, and doing it at the same rate of target:completion as the better player.

damn glad we have a top 5 wr and a top 5 TE on the same team. not sure why people have to be mad about that. *shrug*

-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 08:24 AM

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218. "Wait--I thought Welker was top 3? I'm confused"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          


McDeezJawnz says he's the best.

One of you guys just said he was top 3

Now he's top 5?

I'm literally confused

I mean, he's not as good as Andre, Megatron or Fitz,
so I think the Top 3 thing is LOL off the bat

But why y'all copping pleas already? Just curious

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 10:32 AM

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219. "RE: Wait--I thought Welker was top 3? I'm confused"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

McDeez says he's the best, Jersey says top 5, I say top 3. You literally just broke that down and then acted confused, lol.

>
>I mean, he's not as good as Andre, Megatron or Fitz,
>so I think the Top 3 thing is LOL off the bat

Megatron is the best. Right now I would put Welker above Andre and Fitz. He's not anywhere close to being as physically gifted, but that doesn't mean he's not better. It's certainly a debate, top 5 is not though. He's too good and consistent to not be considered top 5.

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 10:43 AM

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221. "Wait -- so Welker is better than Andre Johnson and Larry Fitz? "
In response to Reply # 219


  

          


>Megatron is the best. Right now I would put Welker above Andre
>and Fitz. He's not anywhere close to being as physically
>gifted, but that doesn't mean he's not better. It's certainly
>a debate, top 5 is not though. He's too good and consistent to
>not be considered top 5.


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----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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LBs Finest
Member since Sep 28th 2005
19846 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 03:00 AM

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272. "lol. basically."
In response to Reply # 221


  

          

_________________________

  

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mcdeezjawns
Charter member
26056 posts
Sun Dec-25-11 09:25 PM

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206. "Because he's the best in the game"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and it makes people here VERY Mad

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Mon Dec-26-11 10:55 AM

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212. "i laughed"
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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mcdeezjawns
Charter member
26056 posts
Mon Dec-26-11 02:32 PM

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213. "RE: i laughed"
In response to Reply # 212


  

          

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards/year/2011/seasontype/2

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receptions

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingTouchdowns

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/longReception

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingBigPlays

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYardsPerGame

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYardsAfterCatch

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingFirstDowns



Best

In

The

Game

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 10:44 AM

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222. "You can post all the stats you want. Dude isn't a top 5 receiver"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 10:54 AM

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223. "^^^^and here we have the summary of Welker haters arguments"
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

"What??? EVIDENCE???!!!???? *puts hands over eyes*"

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 11:02 AM

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224. "Is Victor Cruz better than Larry Fitzerald? "
In response to Reply # 223


  

          

>"What??? EVIDENCE???!!!???? *puts hands over eyes*"

Answer the question.

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 12:01 PM

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225. "I already answered no to this"
In response to Reply # 224


  

          

Receiving yards are NOT everything (notice how I still put Megatron above Welker and Andre still in the top 5???), that's why I never said that they were. Also, his stats are not limited to Receiving yards. He's getting plenty of TDs, more 1st downs than anyone, more YAC than anyone, and he's developed beyond just a slot receiver. He's been a deep threat when the team needed him to be this season (or have you not been watching?).

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 06:03 PM

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238. "ou have to separate fan loyalty from truth when it comes to players"
In response to Reply # 225


  

          

Yes, us Pats fans like Welker as a player. But the truth is, he is NOT a top 5 WR. Plain and simple. Brady makes him look a lot better than he really is. Welker's been targeted by Brady about 2,000,000 times this year it seems (even when he shouldn't be which is annoying at times since defenses will be prepared in the playoffs for a lot of that). Brady almost made Reche Caldwell look like a pro bowler years ago. I'm not saying Caldwell is better than Welker, but I'm just trying to give some perspective. Welker is a good good receiver for what he does. But he's not seeing the guys who I consider top 5 who can flat out do it all:

Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Steve Smith
Mike Wallace

I'd actually take any one of these guys below over Welker. Brady would have any of these cats catching 15-20 TDs a year -

Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Steve Smith
Mike Wallace
Reggie Wayne
Dez Bryant
Vincent Jackson
Brandon Marshall
Victor Cruz
Greg Jennings
Steve Johnson
Jordy Nelson
Dwayne Bowe
Roddy White

These guys can do everything including go deep consistently and get open. Hell, give Brady the Packers receiving core in general and he might throw for 55-60 TDs. Seriously.

In all I'd argue that Welker is top 20, but the greatness of Brady is making some fans think that Welker is better than a lot of guys that he's not. Period.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 06:23 PM

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239. "a few thoughts:"
In response to Reply # 238


  

          

1) he did it with Cassell in '08. outside of TDs, it was a nearly identical season to his '07 campaign.

2) I already stated I think there are many receivers who are more physically talented than him, but his separation and his ability to get yards after the catch despite playing in the short field most of the time is amazing and has only gotten better.

3) while not at the level of other guys, he has shown an ability to catch deep balls this year.

4) In relation to Brady, everyone always says this about receivers that can go longer, and I think it was true a few years ago, but not anymore. At this point in his career I think he prefers this style of play. If you look at how the Brady and Moss relationship unfolded it became clear in '09 and '10 that Brady had become too comfortable with the deep ball to Moss even when it had started to hurt drives more than it helped. Some of that was Moss' natural decline, but a LOT of those throws were just plain lazy. I think he learned that lesson, started focusing on the yardmarkers more than the quick strike, and the offense is perfectly tailored to him right now.

5) as others have stated, if there are so many people that are better than him, why can't they do what they do? what he does would seem to fit most offenses better than the occasional deep ball, no?

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 06:28 PM

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240. "also, caldwell had 760 yards and 4 tds"
In response to Reply # 239


  

          


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 08:38 PM

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254. "regardless of anything, those guys I named are better"
In response to Reply # 239


  

          

the top 5 I listed are unquestionably better.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 07:21 AM

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273. "by what measure though?"
In response to Reply # 254


  

          

i understood the weariness to declare a slot receiver in the top 5 a couple years ago, but now? I mean what else does he have to do?

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 12:41 PM

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281. "he has to be the complete threat. I still don't think he is"
In response to Reply # 273


  

          

those guys I named are faster, can get open deep, and can even go up for jump balls against great DBs. Those are the 3 qualities I think Welker is missing. But seriously, you'd take him over a guy like Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson? I understand Welker's on our team and we're fans of his because of that, but I'm just being honest in the assessment.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 12:55 PM

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282. "RE: he has to be the complete threat. I still don't think he is"
In response to Reply # 281
Wed Dec-28-11 12:55 PM by Brew

          

>those guys I named are faster

But still don't get open as often as Welker (talent as opposed to natural skill)

>can get open deep

Which Welker also does as evidenced by the bomb he caught just this past Saturday.

>and can
>even go up for jump balls against great DBs.

Which also is a natural ability mostly based on height which Welker cannot help that he doesn't have.

But he's still got great hands, gets open, runs his routes to perfection, catches everything, has football smarts and creates room on broken plays to get open and keep plays moving.

Again, everything that people are "knocking" Welker for in here is either made up, wrong, or something that has nothing to do with TALENT and has everything to do with something Welker can't control.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 01:26 PM

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284. "see, I'm not saying Welker isn't a very good receiver"
In response to Reply # 282


  

          

I'm just saying he's missing some pieces. Yes he gets open but he's thrown to so many times it's crazy. Imagine Brady and Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson or Steve Smith or Reggie Wayne. They'd be setting records left and right. I'm saying Welker is good but those other guys are a step above.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 02:26 PM

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288. "I know but you're kinda proving my point for me..."
In response to Reply # 284


          

>I'm just saying he's missing some pieces. Yes he gets open
>but he's thrown to so many times it's crazy.

(a) how is this a bad thing?, (b) he's thrown to that much and still catches 90% of the balls thrown to him. He never drops a ball. And the fact that he's being thrown to means he's getting open. Which means he's doing his job. And he's catching more balls than anyone year after year after year.

Imagine Brady and
>Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson or Steve Smith or Reggie Wayne.
>They'd be setting records left and right.

Welker IS setting records. He's got more catches over a 5 year period than anyone else in the league. He's set franchise records all over the place.

>I'm saying Welker is
>good but those other guys are a step above.

How though?! I just don't get this. They have immense POTENTIAL but haven't lived up to it while Welker has been CONSISTENTLY incredible for going on 5 solid years. So what can you point to that says "they're a step above"? That's been the issue throughout this post. Facts vs. no facts. Welker may not have the immense ceiling of potential talent these big, fast, black receivers have, but his ACTUAL PRODUCTION says he's the best there is right now. Until these other guys' PRODUCTION lives up to their hype, how can anyone say they are better than the guy that PRODUCES at an EXTREMELY HIGH level year after year?

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 03:17 PM

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289. "Yall my Pats bredren so I'll just agree to disagree lol"
In response to Reply # 288


  

          

cuz if I had the option of swapping Welker for Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson and have Brady throwing to them and Belichick coaching, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I just feel the guys I listed as top 5 would make the Pats unstoppable and create openings for lesser receivers on the team. But I'll agree to disagree. Hopefully Welker proves something to me in these playoffs cuz Brady is gonna need him to get open and open fast deep at times.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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290. "Haha I feel you."
In response to Reply # 289


          

And listen, the two guys you named? Almost definitely better than Welker. My only argument throughout this post, personally, is that Welker should absolutely be considered a top 5 receiver. So I'm not saying he's the best in the league, necessarily, my only point is that I truly believe he deserves top 5 consideration because of his production.

Larry Fitz and Andre? Almost definitely breaking tons of records with Brady as QB. There's probly one or two others as well. But Welker HAS done it so I just think he deserves consideration from everyone.

That's all I've been saying.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Wed Dec-28-11 01:36 PM

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285. "like I said, he doesn't have the talent of those guys"
In response to Reply # 281


  

          

>those guys I named are faster, can get open deep, and can
>even go up for jump balls against great DBs. Those are the 3
>qualities I think Welker is missing. But seriously, you'd take
>him over a guy like Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson? I
>understand Welker's on our team and we're fans of his because
>of that, but I'm just being honest in the assessment.

but they don't have the skill set they have. the names on everyone's lists are impressive, but that doesn't mean they have more value. if there's 20 guys who can get open downfield , but if most QBs barely ever throw it that far accurately, then is it THAT valuable a skill? a guy like Welker is more rare and would be more useful to most teams imo. how does that not = better? especially when the results have been evident for years. the quick strike is exciting and cool, that doesn't mean it's a better football strategy.

  

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mcdeezjawns
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250. "According to "Nickhasabraintumororislegallyretarded": He is AS good"
In response to Reply # 224


  

          

I Mean, He's got as any TD's than Larry

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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226. "It's not hate when it's the truth"
In response to Reply # 223


  

          

You can keep crying and posting stats though. You got a few people who agree with you.

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thembi
Member since Feb 05th 2003
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Mon Dec-26-11 02:36 PM

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214. "that cracka is not the best in the game...."
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

and you know...he plays for a cheatin ass organization...fuck their schemes...

the world is a toll-free toilet-george clinton

  

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mcdeezjawns
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215. "except that his stats say the exact opposite"
In response to Reply # 214
Mon Dec-26-11 03:10 PM by mcdeezjawns

  

          

A Wide receivers job is to:
-Catch the Ball
-Run after he catches the ball
-score touchdowns

He has caught the ball more than anyone else in the league(31 more catches than the next WR)
He has run after the catch for more yards in the league
He is in the top 4 in Touchdowns, which, when coupled with the fact that his catches are FAR more than the next, his yards are Far more than the next, and his YAC is 200yds more than the next receiver, makes him the absolute best Wide receiver in the game

But yeah, he's just a shitty cracka ass receiver that no defense has figured out how to stop consistently over his career in NE

And the fact that we have no been able to cite his stats for the ENTIRE season(as this post proves) makes it quite clear he's the best on the field this year

  

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thembi
Member since Feb 05th 2003
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Tue Dec-27-11 10:43 AM

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220. "RE: except that his stats say the exact opposite"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

stats are distorted.....give me jordy nelson anyday asshole!!!!

the world is a toll-free toilet-george clinton

  

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mcdeezjawns
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243. "There should be a mandatory test required to pass to be on the internet"
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

to keep people like you busy in your parents basement doing something else besides being retarded on the internet

  

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thembi
Member since Feb 05th 2003
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280. "THATS ALL YOU GOT????"
In response to Reply # 243


  

          

come on premium you can do better than that...go get some sun you fucking pale rapist.....we dont have basements down here....asshole....

the world is a toll-free toilet-george clinton

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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227. "he does all of that and yet"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

he's not the guy the opponents are game planning for.

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thejerseytornado
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228. "that's a fucking lie and a half"
In response to Reply # 227


  

          

teams don't gameplan for welker?


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Dec-27-11 02:17 PM

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229. "i know where that lie started"
In response to Reply # 228


  

          

i don't know why it didn't end with Moss leaving. It's mind-boggling. Like a dude is just gonna get 1500 yards and the most 1st downs in the league, not because he's good, but because no one is worried about him. lol.

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Dec-27-11 02:20 PM

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230. "Q: Coach, shouldn't we figure out what to do about welker?"
In response to Reply # 229


  

          

A: Nah, some dudes on the internet said he's not elite, so we don't need to worry about his 116 catches and 1500+ yards. He's not that good. let's only focus on Gronkowski.
Q: Can't we plan for two or more receivers?
A: Yeah. That's why we've got plans to cover up Branch. Didn't you hear he's clutch?
Q: This doesn't seem smart...
-----------
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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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231. "you know, we could take the extra WHITE! angle on this"
In response to Reply # 230


  

          

He's so scrappy they don't have the TIME to come up with a suitable gameplan, so they just give up and focus on the bruising Tight Ends.

  

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thejerseytornado
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Tue Dec-27-11 02:33 PM

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232. "they know he'll work harder than them anyway, so why even try?"
In response to Reply # 231


  

          


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue Dec-27-11 04:58 PM

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235. "Welker is good. just not as good as y'all are trying to make him"
In response to Reply # 229
Tue Dec-27-11 05:09 PM by Nick Has a Problem..

  

          

he's the best slot receiver. i'll give him that.

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mcdeezjawns
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Tue Dec-27-11 07:46 PM

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244. "its not us, it's his STATISTICS"
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

you know


Measurable statistics


Not people's estrogen fueled feelings like yourself

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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247. "the best receiver doesn't always have the best statistics though"
In response to Reply # 244


  

          

so just going strictly off the statistics is crazy. if you watch the games you know his strengths and weaknesses. he's good. just not top 5 good.

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Dec-27-11 07:55 PM

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249. "you being the guy who thinks welker's still just a "slot receiver""
In response to Reply # 247


  

          


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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mcdeezjawns
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257. "But what if the receiver in question has the best stats in multiple cate..."
In response to Reply # 247


  

          

and is in the top 3 or 4 in the few categories he doesnt lead in?

Seems to me that would trend towards SUPPORTING THE ARGUMENT 100%

What exactly is a wide receiver supposed to be based on, besides Targets, catches, yards after the catch, and touchdowns?

You want him to be judged on subjective things like blocking? Because Welker would lead that category all day


Bottom line: Statistics are facts, and not subjective by any measure

as opposed to your butthurt feelings

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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Tue Dec-27-11 04:57 PM

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234. "who's caught the most TD passes for the Patriots?"
In response to Reply # 228


  

          

that's who the game plan is for. there are several receivers with 20 to 30 catches less than Welker who have as many or more TD's as him. he's good at his job but he's not top 5. you wanna brag on a white boy give Jordy Nelson props. he can actually stretch the field.

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
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Tue Dec-27-11 05:03 PM

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236. "so Darren Sproles is better than Marques Colston?"
In response to Reply # 234


  

          

when did this whole notion of "We're only game planning for one player" begin?

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue Dec-27-11 07:24 PM

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241. "last time i checked Marques Colston wasn't an elite receiver"
In response to Reply # 236


  

          

and he's missed a few games this season so i'm not surprised Sproles has more TD's than him.

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Dec-27-11 05:27 PM

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237. "wait, so the guy who never had more than 2 TDs or 600 yards"
In response to Reply # 234


  

          

before this breakout season is already better than the guy who hasn't had under 800 yards (shortened season) and more than 2 tds every season for five straight years?

and all because nelson has 3 more TDs this season? with 400 fewer yards?

got it. lmao.

-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue Dec-27-11 07:26 PM

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242. "like i said, Welker is the best slot receiver playing today"
In response to Reply # 237


  

          

Nelson stretches the field. he can be a deep threat.

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Dec-27-11 07:51 PM

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246. "U don't watch Pats games much, do you?"
In response to Reply # 242


  

          

as he's not only a slot receiver nor is he only running short routes.

-----------
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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue Dec-27-11 08:10 PM

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252. "i'm not gonna sit here and pretend that i watch all of their games"
In response to Reply # 246


  

          

i follow the packers, giants and my home town falcons. i've seen enough to know what he does and his strength isn't stretching the field. he's good at what he does.

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mcdeezjawns
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Tue Dec-27-11 09:02 PM

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258. "Welker has a 99 yards TD this season *STATISTICAL/VIDEO ETHER WITHIN*"
In response to Reply # 242
Tue Dec-27-11 09:05 PM by mcdeezjawns

  

          

Just a list of his longs for this season
99yds
33yds
32yds
73yds
28yds
41yds
24yds
42yds

Figured I'd throw in some video evidence, since...you know...you clearly do not watch football period




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhBLg4XQgPE

http://sportshl.com/football/Welker_41_yard_TD_reception/1114533

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN0g61i08cg (30 Seconds in)

But yeah, he plays a REALLY short field with no deep threat whatsoever

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Dec-27-11 09:09 PM

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261. "Quit confusing this fool with proof."
In response to Reply # 258
Tue Dec-27-11 09:12 PM by Brew

          

He's all up in this post proving his point with....names. And that's it. And you come all up in here with stats and videos and numbers and proof and evidence and all that bullshit. Proof and evidence don't prove anything. Just talking does.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue Dec-27-11 09:15 PM

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262. "so i'm a fool now"
In response to Reply # 261


  

          

we agree on a lot of things in the lesson but this shit about Welker being the best receiver is asinine. i saw his 99 yard TD. Victor Cruz also has one. He also averages more yards per catch and has one less TD than Welker so is he better? You get that many catches when you're not a deep threat. You run a bunch of short routes. That's what he's good at. We can agree to disagree.

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Dec-27-11 09:19 PM

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264. ""fool" was just a figure of speech..."
In response to Reply # 262


          

honestly, haha, I meant no disrespect by it. I call my best friends "fool" on some tongue in cheek shit.

That said, you are correct that we just have to agree to disagree. Welker is top 5 IMO, and his play on the field proves it. The receivers you named are great talents but have never put together the string of seasons Welker has which I think at least means he deserves to be in the conversation. He's done it all for this team and there's not a lot of receivers who can produce game in and game out like he does.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Wed Dec-28-11 08:21 AM

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274. "5 players in history have had more catches "
In response to Reply # 262


  

          

in history.

>catch and has one less TD than Welker so is he better? You get
>that many catches when you're not a deep threat. You run a
>bunch of short routes. That's what he's good at. We can agree
>to disagree.

so no, "you" don't get that many catches. only a select fewe ever do.
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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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Wed Dec-28-11 08:31 AM

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276. "no matter what you say he's not top 5 WR"
In response to Reply # 274


  

          

yes he has amazing numbers but defenses are not trying to double team him to take him out of the game. he's not a home run type of guy. he's an Ichiro Suzuki kinda guy and nothing's wrong with that.

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thejerseytornado
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Wed Dec-28-11 08:49 AM

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278. "no player in the game gets a double team every snap"
In response to Reply # 276


  

          

welker gets bracketed in games, welker gets followed on defense by top cornerbacks when they play great teams. the jets tried not having revis follow welker around and he burned them so they had to move revis to focus on welker more. welker does a lot of his damage against zones and against blitzes.

and that's a bad thing?

a deep threat is only useful when the route is able to develop. welker's useful then + as a fantastic outlet on a hot read or a zone buster.

it's not a normal WR skill set for a #1, elite WR but he's so good at it that he is, indeed an elite wide receiver. you can keep screaming NO! NO! NO! but that's all you're doing.

stop being beholden to the deep threat WR. welker's putting up Harrison numbers with a couple fewer TDs (due to having an elite TE for Brady to focus on in the end zone). embrace it--he doesn't look the part, but he is.

and the more you cry out no, the more we'll respond and laugh. remember, we're the fans of the guy who is the #1 receiver on the afc's current #1 seed (albeit not that optimisitc about a super bowl because of the bad defense)
-----------
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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Wed Dec-28-11 09:00 AM

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279. "^^^^^^^^^^all of this."
In response to Reply # 278


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Wed Dec-28-11 01:12 PM

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283. "RE: no player in the game gets a double team every snap"
In response to Reply # 278


  

          

we can agree to disagree fam. it ain't that serious. you think he is and i don't. nothing we post we change the other person's mind.

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
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Tue Dec-27-11 09:17 PM

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263. "you're wasting your time and mines posting this shit dude ain't a top 3 ..."
In response to Reply # 258


  

          

receiver. you can post up a hundred more videos and still wouldn't convince me. peace.

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mcdeezjawns
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Tue Dec-27-11 09:53 PM

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268. "each piece of evidence i've provided in this thread has refuted your cla..."
In response to Reply # 263


  

          

"he sucks"

He leads the league in catches and yards.

"hes not even the best receiver on his team"
He has more catches more yards, more targets than said player

"He's not a deep threat. Jordy nelson stretches the field, welker doesnt"

Wes has better stats than Jordy...*Here's a video of a 99 yards TD catch, along with a video of a 73 yd td catch along with a video of a 44 yd td catch for you to choke on*

"I Don't watch football"

we all know that. you've demonstrated it quite well in this post


Bottom line: He is the *most productive* and most successful Wide Receiver in the last 5 years all together

And he's white

and that hurts

  

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mcdeezjawns
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248. "I'll take "People who never actually watch a football game for a $1000, ..."
In response to Reply # 237


  

          

  

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mcdeezjawns
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Tue Dec-27-11 07:50 PM

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245. "Laurent Robinson has just as many touchdowns as Dez Bryant"
In response to Reply # 234


  

          

So do teams Gameplan for Robinson?

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
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Tue Dec-27-11 08:02 PM

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251. "LOL! damn y'all dudes are mad. Gronk is the man on that team"
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

he's the main receiving threat on that team. he's the guy who causes the most match up problems. i'm done going back and forth with this foolishness. Welker isn't a top 5 receiver.

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Tue Dec-27-11 08:20 PM

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253. "Gronk has 50 FEWER targets than Welker"
In response to Reply # 251


  

          

he has 300 fewer yards than welker and 25 fewer receptions.

tell me again who is the primary target of the new england passing attack, he who doesn't watch all the pats games.

lol.
-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 08:48 PM

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255. "he also has six more TD's"
In response to Reply # 253


  

          

so we see who Brady goes to when he needs a score.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 08:51 PM

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256. "I'd throw it up to the taller guy in the redzone, too."
In response to Reply # 255


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 10:14 PM

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269. "remember when teams used to gameplan for Mike Vrabel???"
In response to Reply # 256


  

          

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 08:35 AM

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277. "LOL! loving the failed jokes"
In response to Reply # 269


  

          

keep'em coming

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mcdeezjawns
Charter member
26056 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 09:03 PM

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259. "You've lost a fact/statistic based argument in a horrible horrible fashi..."
In response to Reply # 251


  

          

and now have resorted to the "you mad" philosophy

We can go ahead and put that in the "W" column for the pro welker camp.

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 09:22 PM

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265. "LOL! i've lost nothing and you're wasting your time. he's not top 5"
In response to Reply # 259


  

          

no matter what you post up you're not gonna convince me that he's better than Fitz, Dre, Jennings, Roddy, Megatron, etc. He's good but not top 5.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24419 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 03:35 PM

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233. "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
In response to Reply # 227
Tue Dec-27-11 03:50 PM by Brew

          

>he's not the guy the opponents are game planning for.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Wow. Thanks I needed that.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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mcdeezjawns
Charter member
26056 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 09:08 PM

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260. "Just selected to his 4th straight pro bowl start"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Mad?



Too bad all these 8 guys will be preparing for a game in Indy the week the pro bowl is played

  

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Lach
Charter member
44326 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 09:26 PM

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266. "well deserved."
In response to Reply # 260


  

          

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 09:31 PM

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267. "nobody said he wasn't good"
In response to Reply # 260


  

          

now i see why i don't come to okay sports often. way too sensitive.

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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mcdeezjawns
Charter member
26056 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 10:16 PM

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270. "you should come here even less often than you do"
In response to Reply # 267


  

          

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 08:26 AM

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275. "keep crying fam"
In response to Reply # 270


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

Geto Boys, Poison Clan, UGK, Eightball & MJG, OutKast, Goodie Mob

  

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mcdeezjawns
Charter member
26056 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 01:43 PM

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286. "Why would I cry? I get to watch the GOAT QB and the best WR in the game"
In response to Reply # 275


  

          

each and every week

  

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Nick Has a Problem...Seriously
Member since Dec 25th 2010
16580 posts
Wed Dec-28-11 02:18 PM

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287. "I get to watch the GOAT QB. Agreed. Brady is great!"
In response to Reply # 286


  

          

******************************************
Falcons, Braves, Bulldogs and Hawks

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FILF
Member since Jun 01st 2007
20180 posts
Tue Dec-27-11 11:01 PM

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271. "Brady n.m."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

WHAT'S GOOD *****? What's REALLY good?!?!????!!! Ha HA!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/d8e2daf9f3f37244cd05436bcdf05973/tumblr_mt4qibKq4c1rgam01o1_1280.png

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Fri Jan-06-12 02:54 PM

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291. "All-Pro for the 2nd time. congrats!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


-----------
I have nothing to contribute here, just complaining.

  

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mcdeezjawns
Charter member
26056 posts
Fri Jan-13-12 02:02 PM

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292. "http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Red-Shirt.jpg"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

" It seems to give you power, especially late in the season. So, I’ve been feeling it this week, and hopefully it carries through to Saturday.”

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/wes-welker-mustache.jpg

  

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Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Sun Feb-05-12 09:56 PM

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293. "http://i40.tinypic.com/24xdq2o.gif"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


http://i40.tinypic.com/24xdq2o.gif

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

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SoulHonky
Member since Jan 21st 2003
25919 posts
Sun Feb-05-12 10:58 PM

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295. "Yep. Wasn't even the best slot receiver today"
In response to Reply # 293


          

And no matter what he did this season, the defining moment of this year was that drop. I'll take my L on this one.

----
NBA MOCK DRAFT #1 - https://thecourierclass.com/whole-shebang/2017/5/18/2017-nba-mock-draft-1-just-lotto-and-lotta-trades

  

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bigboy
Member since Oct 21st 2004
11930 posts
Sun Feb-05-12 10:17 PM

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294. "catching all those bullshit slants out the slot with nobody on him"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 07:56 AM

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296. "Why is what Welker does any of Willies business?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7850405/likely-skip-new-england-patriots-mandatory-workouts

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 08:03 AM

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297. "lol, McGinest ended his career with the Browns"
In response to Reply # 296
Thu Apr-26-12 08:03 AM by pretentious username

  

          

because he and the Pats disagreed on how much he was worth. This happens all the time. Wes is also not being a dick about it, he's simply saying "Hey, I think I deserve a long-term deal." and he does. Whether or not the Pats are gonna give it to him is a totally different animal, but he does deserve it.

  

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BLACK_ADAM
Member since Mar 21st 2006
4791 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 09:37 AM

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298. "Willie got all three of them thangs the Patriots got in the 90s"
In response to Reply # 296


  

          

That and the fact he's an analyst pretty much sums up the answer...


Willie is walking proof that under Bellichick...any and *EVERY*one is expendable...

Given their record in the playoffs and Superbowls since Willie's left though... They might have wanted to pay the man..

Willie got all three of those Patriot rings and he got released/traded..

With all the weapons the Patriots have at Receiver... Do you really think Wes has the leverage to hold out?

McDaniels is back as the Offensive Coordinator/QB coach

-They acquired Brandon Lloyd
-They acquired Anthony Gonzalez
-They have Deion Branch
-They have Chad Johnson
-They have Donté Stallworth
-They have Julian Edelman
-They Have Daniel Fells
-They have Aaron Hernandez
-They have Rob Gronkowski

There are many that believe Wes is also a "system receiver"... Where else would he honestly get the ball as much as he does in New England and/or have the fortune to be coupled with a QB as precise and talented as Brady???

Normally I'd side with Wes but in this instance...If he thinks he can go somewhere else and do better he's lost his mind.
"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 09:44 AM

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299. "damn...."
In response to Reply # 298


          


>McDaniels is back as the Offensive Coordinator/QB coach
>
>-They acquired Brandon Lloyd
>-They acquired Anthony Gonzalez
>-They have Deion Branch
>-They have Chad Johnson
>-They have Donté Stallworth
>-They have Julian Edelman
>-They Have Daniel Fells
>-They have Aaron Hernandez
>-They have Rob Gronkowski

Belicheat and Brady are about to be on some "Fuck the World" all out assault shit next season

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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BLACK_ADAM
Member since Mar 21st 2006
4791 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 09:55 AM

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300. "I'm a diehard Bears and NY FB fan but I respect the Patriots org"
In response to Reply # 299


  

          

Say what you what about Bellichick and that org but they do not play to lose...

Bill learned from Parcells and improved the model somewhat. They know how to pick personnel and keep costs effective..

When they figure out how to get their defense back to that "McGinest level" of of personnel and production for the right money...The league should take cover..

...and I sincerely hope that Brady will be too old to orchestrate it...

...but then again... Bill has acquired Hoyer and Mallett...


*SHEESH*


"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 12:23 PM

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305. "cmon"
In response to Reply # 299


  

          

>
>>McDaniels is back as the Offensive Coordinator/QB coach
>>
>>-They acquired Brandon Lloyd
>>-They acquired Anthony Gonzalez
>>-They have Deion Branch
>>-They have Chad Johnson
>>-They have Donté Stallworth
>>-They have Julian Edelman
>>-They Have Daniel Fells
>>-They have Aaron Hernandez
>>-They have Rob Gronkowski
>
>Belicheat and Brady are about to be on some "Fuck the World"
>all out assault shit next season

Not saying the Pats are gonna suck or anything, but you're really saying "damn" for guys like Ochocinco and Stallworth? Didn't Ocho catch like 4 passes last year? Gonzalez sucks, Edelman sucks, and who the hell is Daniel Fells?

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 12:49 PM

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306. "Yea Daniel Fells def needs to be on that list "
In response to Reply # 305


  

          

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 01:03 PM

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309. "I honestly do not know who that is. No snark. "
In response to Reply # 306


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

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Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66746 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 01:11 PM

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311. "He has 88 catches in 5 years"
In response to Reply # 309


  

          

So I guess according to Willie he will be MADE now that he is a Pat. Cuz you know, Welker has no talent or anything.

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

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BLACK_ADAM
Member since Mar 21st 2006
4791 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 01:21 PM

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312. "Big, Athletic TE that blocks well and has good hands... "
In response to Reply # 309


  

          

He actually can be a good pass catching TE....the question is the touches but he certainly can block...


He is a threat with Brady at QB.....period.


"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."

  

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BLACK_ADAM
Member since Mar 21st 2006
4791 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 01:03 PM

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310. "Sam... Josh McDaniels is the OC..."
In response to Reply # 305


  

          

Let that marinate for a minute...


Brandon Lloyd was labeled a bust before McDaniels got ahold of him..

....and Lloyd played in Chicago (hurt to type that)

Orton was labelled a "game manager" before McDaniels got ahold of him..

Tom Brady set records with McDaniels calling the plays...


Do you really think these guys are in the NFL because they really can't play?

Do you think McDaniels can't resurrect and utilize these players properly?

I root for the Bears, the Jets and the Giants...


I am concerned.

In this system...With McDaniels calling the plays and Bellichick actually *concentrating* on Defense... *ANY* one of these players can go Beast Mode on a dime (pun intended)..

...but seriously... I am concerned...

....and don't sleep on Daniel Fells... HUGE RED ZONE TARGET...

Watch how many triple TE sets happen this year in the red zone...

Peep the coaching tree
Parcells
Bellichick - Has three Big TEs
Coughlin - Has Three Big TEs (2 injured though)

Triple TE set on deck in 2012


"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 01:25 PM

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313. "RE: cmon"
In response to Reply # 305


          

>>
>>>McDaniels is back as the Offensive Coordinator/QB coach
>>>
>>>-They acquired Brandon Lloyd
>>>-They acquired Anthony Gonzalez
>>>-They have Deion Branch
>>>-They have Chad Johnson
>>>-They have Donté Stallworth
>>>-They have Julian Edelman
>>>-They Have Daniel Fells
>>>-They have Aaron Hernandez
>>>-They have Rob Gronkowski
>>
>>Belicheat and Brady are about to be on some "Fuck the World"
>>all out assault shit next season
>
>Not saying the Pats are gonna suck or anything, but you're
>really saying "damn" for guys like Ochocinco and Stallworth?
>Didn't Ocho catch like 4 passes last year? Gonzalez sucks,
>Edelman sucks, and who the hell is Daniel Fells?

I think those receivers you named will have something to prove this year too and with the attention Gronk and Hernandez are going to draw those guys are going to see a lot of 1-on-1 coverage. And don't be surprised if Brandon Lloyd has a monster year. Daniel Fells is a scrub, he was 3rd string TE on the Rams a couple of years ago.

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 11:06 AM

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301. "RE: Willie got all three of them thangs the Patriots got in the 90s"
In response to Reply # 298


  

          

>That and the fact he's an analyst pretty much sums up the
>answer...

huh?

>
>Given their record in the playoffs and Superbowls since
>Willie's left though... They might have wanted to pay the
>man..

lol, Willie wasn't the reason we haven't won one since. he was part of a defense that was getting older and he was left go. our problem was we didn't fully replensih that defense, not that we didn't hang on to guys like him.

>
>Willie got all three of those Patriot rings and he got
>released/traded..

not entirely true. i don't think they really wanted to keep him, but the real story is he became an FA and cleveland offered him some good money before his career was over. he wisely took it. Welker has hit his 30's, and knows that time is approaching. Asking for long-term deal is not out-of-line given everything he's done, regardless of how much he was helped by being here.

>With all the weapons the Patriots have at Receiver... Do you
>really think Wes has the leverage to hold out?

basically no football player has much leverage. who cares? he's done a lot and nobody particularly likes the franchise tag

>There are many that believe Wes is also a "system receiver"...
> Where else would he honestly get the ball as much as he does
>in New England and/or have the fortune to be coupled with a QB
>as precise and talented as Brady???

blah blah blah. he's accomplished a lot and he wants a long-term deal. the circumstances are meaningless and this isn't new.

>
>Normally I'd side with Wes but in this instance...If he thinks
>he can go somewhere else and do better he's lost his mind.

It's not about what he can do elsewhere. Hell, a football deal isn't even really about what you're going to do in the future since they can cut you so easily. It's about what you've done in the past and how much guaranteed money you can get before you retire. Plus, a team doesn't apply the franchise tag to someone they look at as completely expendable. They apply it to someone who is very valuable, but who they don't want to pay.

  

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BLACK_ADAM
Member since Mar 21st 2006
4791 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 11:38 AM

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302. "Nitpicking? LOL! Ok man..."
In response to Reply # 301


  

          

>>That and the fact he's an analyst pretty much sums up the
>>answer...
>
>huh?


^^^Exactly.
>>
>>Given their record in the playoffs and Superbowls since
>>Willie's left though... They might have wanted to pay the
>>man..
>
>lol, Willie wasn't the reason we haven't won one since. he was
>part of a defense that was getting older and he was left go.
>our problem was we didn't fully replensih that defense, not
>that we didn't hang on to guys like him.

^^^Where did I say he was the reason?
>
>>
>>Willie got all three of those Patriot rings and he got
>>released/traded..
>
>not entirely true. i don't think they really wanted to keep
>him, but the real story is he became an FA and cleveland
>offered him some good money before his career was over. he
>wisely took it. Welker has hit his 30's, and knows that time
>is approaching. Asking for long-term deal is not out-of-line
>given everything he's done, regardless of how much he was
>helped by being here.

^^^Not entirely untrue. They didn't want to keep him? OK. For the right price he would have retired a Patriot. Willie getting his money is obvious. What's apparent is youth on defense doesn't always have an upside which is much of what the Patriots get dragged around in the press for. How long was Bruschi a Patriot again?


>
>>With all the weapons the Patriots have at Receiver... Do
>you
>>really think Wes has the leverage to hold out?
>
>basically no football player has much leverage. who cares?
>he's done a lot and nobody particularly likes the franchise
>tag

^^^Right...so your point is???


>
>>There are many that believe Wes is also a "system
>receiver"...
>> Where else would he honestly get the ball as much as he
>does
>>in New England and/or have the fortune to be coupled with a
>QB
>>as precise and talented as Brady???
>
>blah blah blah. he's accomplished a lot and he wants a
>long-term deal. the circumstances are meaningless and this
>isn't new.


^^^Blah Blah Blah...Again... No leverage means....????
>
>>
>>Normally I'd side with Wes but in this instance...If he
>thinks
>>he can go somewhere else and do better he's lost his mind.
>
>It's not about what he can do elsewhere. Hell, a football deal
>isn't even really about what you're going to do in the future
>since they can cut you so easily. It's about what you've done
>in the past and how much guaranteed money you can get before
>you retire. Plus, a team doesn't apply the franchise tag to
>someone they look at as completely expendable. They apply it
>to someone who is very valuable, but who they don't want to
>pay.
>

^^^^ So what are you saying? "Hey Wes!!! Your numbers were great! We like you... *rolls lowball* You can stay for this money and hey... Meet Brandon!!! Rob and Aaron are on rookie deals... What's that??? You want to sit out of camp????"

Who has the Patriots paid besides Tom? C'mon man.. You're picking over everything I'm saying. Willie is saying that the Patriots are rigid with money and that Wes can be easily replaced if he chooses...


Do you think they're gonna pay him? History says no and I think Willie means to say Wes already knows this...so this can be perceived as "Diva"...

Desean Jackson on line #1


"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 12:05 PM

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304. "RE: Nitpicking? LOL! Ok man..."
In response to Reply # 302


  

          

>>>That and the fact he's an analyst pretty much sums up the
>>>answer...
>>
>>huh?
>
>
>^^^Exactly.

No, I really didn't understand that point.


>
>^^^Where did I say he was the reason?

you kinda suggested it actually.

>
>^^^Not entirely untrue. They didn't want to keep him? OK. For
>the right price he would have retired a Patriot. Willie
>getting his money is obvious. What's apparent is youth on
>defense doesn't always have an upside which is much of what
>the Patriots get dragged around in the press for. How long
>was Bruschi a Patriot again?

The Pats' problem hasn't been that they got youth on defense, it's that they didn't get great defensive players. they needed to go younger, they just didn't go about it correctly. And bruschi wanted to be a patriot regardless of the money. good for him, but that's not for everyone. willie went for money as an FA because he could. Welker sees the end of the tunnel but he can't do much because he's franchised, so he'll use what little leverage he has to try to get a long-term deal. I don't think it'll work, but it's completely understandable.

>
>^^^Right...so your point is???

that any good football player will use what little leverage they have to acquire financial security in this situation. Willie talks as a guy who was never franchised, so he can't really tell someone who was franchised how to react. God forbid they get injured that year and then they don't get another deal at all. I can understand someone being scared with how many athletes run out of money.

>>
>>blah blah blah. he's accomplished a lot and he wants a
>>long-term deal. the circumstances are meaningless and this
>>isn't new.
>
>
>^^^Blah Blah Blah...Again... No leverage means....????

See above. Also it's not that he has no leverage, he has little leverage. But the fact of the matter is there's not much guaranteed money in football, so any player will use what little leverage they have to get as much guaranteed money as they can before they bow out. It's just smart, fuck whatever unspoken rule an organization has.

>^^^^ So what are you saying? "Hey Wes!!! Your numbers were
>great! We like you... *rolls lowball* You can stay for this
>money and hey... Meet Brandon!!! Rob and Aaron are on rookie
>deals... What's that??? You want to sit out of camp????"

once again, he's accomplished a lot and wants some financial security. other circumstances have nothing to do with that completely understandable request.

>
>Who has the Patriots paid besides Tom? C'mon man.. You're
>picking over everything I'm saying. Willie is saying that the
>Patriots are rigid with money and that Wes can be easily
>replaced if he chooses...

I'm not nitpicking, I'm addressing your points. And they've somewhat opened up the checkbook before. Not to the degree they did with Tom, and not for the long term really, but still. And Patriots culture is besides the point. He is a football player in a league where not much is guaranteed. Any franchise tagged player is terrified of getting injured that year and then getting nothing after that. They'll do whatever they can to avoid that.

>Do you think they're gonna pay him? History says no and I
>think Willie means to say Wes already knows this...so this can
>be perceived as "Diva"...

No i don't, I'm not even arguing that they should, I'm arguing that his wanting to get some security is totally understandable and willie is just another example of an ex-Pat player telling the young guys how they should think/act and I think they're off-base for the most part. Also to a degree he is equating holding out with not caring as much as he did about winning, and he can't tell that

  

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BLACK_ADAM
Member since Mar 21st 2006
4791 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 12:50 PM

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307. "Respect. I see your points.. Let's proceed...."
In response to Reply # 304


  

          

>>>>That and the fact he's an analyst pretty much sums up the
>>>>answer...

>No, I really didn't understand that point.

^^^He's a talking head now. No matter how much or little sense he makes...He's going to issue an opinion and various speculative discourse. People are really angry though which is hard for me to understand.. It's his job.
>
>>
>>^^^Where did I say he was the reason?
>
>you kinda suggested it actually.
>

^^^Strategy per the Patriots : "Their philosophy in making personnel decisions and in game planning has focused on the "team" concept,stressing preparation, strong work ethic, versatility, and lack of individual ego. This approach, which led to three Super Bowl victories under Belichick, was analyzed in the 2004 book Patriot Reign"

I only meant to imply that Willie was a big contributing factor to that culture, that philosophy and those victories..

>>
>>^^^Not entirely untrue. They didn't want to keep him? OK.
>For
>>the right price he would have retired a Patriot. Willie
>>getting his money is obvious. What's apparent is youth on
>>defense doesn't always have an upside which is much of what
>>the Patriots get dragged around in the press for. How long
>>was Bruschi a Patriot again?
>
>The Pats' problem hasn't been that they got youth on defense,
>it's that they didn't get great defensive players. they needed
>to go younger, they just didn't go about it correctly. And
>bruschi wanted to be a patriot regardless of the money. good
>for him, but that's not for everyone. willie went for money as
>an FA because he could. Welker sees the end of the tunnel but
>he can't do much because he's franchised, so he'll use what
>little leverage he has to try to get a long-term deal. I don't
>think it'll work, but it's completely understandable.

^^^Agreed. I also think the Franchise tag is more about the fact they actually like Wes but Kraft and Co. are very strict about the bottom line. The franchise tag is good money and while I believe they may take care of Wes...they are going to play hardball because of their roster moves and any time away with the talent they have at receiver may just make him expendable anyway. The way the Pats roll with contracts is that they "force" a player to evaluate whether they want to get paid or would they rather win and be a Patriot. In some instances that becomes a very hard choice. Tedy stayed out of loyalty and honestly I don't think he would necessarily catch on somewhere else...and the team rewarded him (late and very little...but it was done and Tedy has hardware)

>
>>
>>^^^Right...so your point is???
>
>that any good football player will use what little leverage
>they have to acquire financial security in this situation.
>Willie talks as a guy who was never franchised, so he can't
>really tell someone who was franchised how to react. God
>forbid they get injured that year and then they don't get
>another deal at all. I can understand someone being scared
>with how many athletes run out of money.

^^^I don't disagree but I still don't think that discounts Willie's opinion either. Yes the franchise tag seems like a string along but I don't really think Wes is going to really turn too many heads on the open market. The tag is somewhat of a favor to him....a backhanded asshole favor but a favor nonetheless.

Imagine he sits out and somehow falls down the depth chart... What then???? Chris Johnson had a horrible season doing that..as have others. I really think Willie is saying get this year's money and drive up your price but don't get caught slippin'... Brandon Lloyd is there man...and I've never seen the Patriots fall apart on offense when a guy can't (or won't) go...


>
>>>
>>>blah blah blah. he's accomplished a lot and he wants a
>>>long-term deal. the circumstances are meaningless and this
>>>isn't new.
>>
>>
>>^^^Blah Blah Blah...Again... No leverage means....????
>
>See above. Also it's not that he has no leverage, he has
>little leverage. But the fact of the matter is there's not
>much guaranteed money in football, so any player will use what
>little leverage they have to get as much guaranteed money as
>they can before they bow out. It's just smart, fuck whatever
>unspoken rule an organization has.

^^^I don't disagree but the Patriots are particularly good at hedging their bets. They are perennial contenders. Wes' stance ain't gonna move no mountains so he's dealt with the hard choice of Pats or "walk"... Who really walks away from the Patriots??? He goes anywhere else and he's starting over and has to be fit into a system instead of being integral like he is currently.

The Patriots play hardball better than anyone in the game right now.. I want dude to get his money but I don't see any time away as beneficial to him... The Pats roll forward regardless... The tag is a statement of intention when The Patriots do it.. i say he should sign, ball out and prepare to put the screws to The Pats next offseason... (I didn't enjoy typing that...)


>
>>^^^^ So what are you saying? "Hey Wes!!! Your numbers were
>>great! We like you... *rolls lowball* You can stay for
>this
>>money and hey... Meet Brandon!!! Rob and Aaron are on
>rookie
>>deals... What's that??? You want to sit out of camp????"
>
>once again, he's accomplished a lot and wants some financial
>security. other circumstances have nothing to do with that
>completely understandable request.
>
>>
>>Who has the Patriots paid besides Tom? C'mon man.. You're
>>picking over everything I'm saying. Willie is saying that
>the
>>Patriots are rigid with money and that Wes can be easily
>>replaced if he chooses...
>
>I'm not nitpicking, I'm addressing your points. And they've
>somewhat opened up the checkbook before. Not to the degree
>they did with Tom, and not for the long term really, but
>still. And Patriots culture is besides the point. He is a
>football player in a league where not much is guaranteed. Any
>franchise tagged player is terrified of getting injured that
>year and then getting nothing after that. They'll do whatever
>they can to avoid that.

^^^I feel you but the point is he can get injured at any time. He deserves security but history does not help his cause. I think that despite his talents the market would be soft for Wes...


>
>>Do you think they're gonna pay him? History says no and I
>>think Willie means to say Wes already knows this...so this
>can
>>be perceived as "Diva"...
>
>No i don't, I'm not even arguing that they should, I'm arguing
>that his wanting to get some security is totally
>understandable and willie is just another example of an ex-Pat
>player telling the young guys how they should think/act and I
>think they're off-base for the most part. Also to a degree he
>is equating holding out with not caring as much as he did
>about winning, and he can't tell that

^^^I dunno man... Willie ain't Rodney or Tedy... I think he sees clearly what is going on. The market for Wes ain't high. As much as he's accomplished the GM are noting that the Patriots don't really run the ball, their personnel packages are a nightmare and favor Wes immensely, there aren't many QBs or supporting personnel that rival Tom and Co. so Wes's stats are absolutely in whole or in part a product of that... Factor in his age and size...the franchise tag almost seems a favor. I think Willie is speaking code and telling dude to "do him" if he thinks he can get a better deal and the touches because it's likely the front office won't budge..


"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."

  

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pretentious username
Member since Jun 18th 2010
12493 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 01:53 PM

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314. "RE: Respect. I see your points.. Let's proceed...."
In response to Reply # 307


  

          


>^^^He's a talking head now. No matter how much or little
>sense he makes...He's going to issue an opinion and various
>speculative discourse. People are really angry though which
>is hard for me to understand.. It's his job.

right, but if he's wrong or if he's talking just to talk then he should be called out on it. I think he/the other ex-Pats are legitimately mad about the stuff he/they are complaining about, but I still think they're off-base.

>^^^Strategy per the Patriots : "Their philosophy
>in making personnel decisions and in game planning has focused
>on the "team" concept,stressing preparation, strong work
>ethic, versatility, and lack of individual ego. This approach,
>which led to three Super Bowl victories under Belichick, was
>analyzed in the 2004 book Patriot Reign"
>
>I only meant to imply that Willie was a big contributing
>factor to that culture, that philosophy and those victories..

fair enough.

>^^^Agreed. I also think the Franchise tag is more about the
>fact they actually like Wes but Kraft and Co. are very strict
>about the bottom line. The franchise tag is good money and
>while I believe they may take care of Wes...they are going to
>play hardball because of their roster moves and any time away
>with the talent they have at receiver may just make him
>expendable anyway. The way the Pats roll with contracts is
>that they "force" a player to evaluate whether they want to
>get paid or would they rather win and be a Patriot. In some
>instances that becomes a very hard choice. Tedy stayed out of
>loyalty and honestly I don't think he would necessarily catch
>on somewhere else...and the team rewarded him (late and very
>little...but it was done and Tedy has hardware)

True, and I don't necessarily disagree with the philosophy, but it is easier to deal with as a Free Agent, which Willie was, then as a Franchised player. I really don't think anyone who hasn't been franchised can say what that player should or shouldn't do. There's really only one negotiating tactic. As poor as it is, it's all they have for a (relatively) desperate situation.

>^^^I don't disagree but I still don't think that discounts
>Willie's opinion either. Yes the franchise tag seems like a
>string along but I don't really think Wes is going to really
>turn too many heads on the open market. The tag is somewhat
>of a favor to him....a backhanded asshole favor but a favor
>nonetheless.

Regardless of how some discount his worth, you don't get the second most receiving yards 2 out of the past 3 years and receive little to no interest. Had he hit the FA market someone would have thrown a decent amount of money at him. I'm not even sure Welker was unwilling to take a smaller deal and/or less years to stay with the Pats, but he did want to negotiate with them and the franchise tag took that off the table.

>Imagine he sits out and somehow falls down the depth chart...
>What then???? Chris Johnson had a horrible season doing
>that..as have others. I really think Willie is saying get
>this year's money and drive up your price but don't get caught
>slippin'... Brandon Lloyd is there man...and I've never seen
>the Patriots fall apart on offense when a guy can't (or won't)
>go...

I understand that philosophy, and that applies to most players' carers as well, but the threat of age/injury is always on the back of a players' mind in the franchise situation. believe me, part of me loves/respects the Pats' stinginess, but that doesn't invalidate Welker's claim to financial security either.

>^^^I don't disagree but the Patriots are particularly good at
>hedging their bets. They are perennial contenders. Wes'
>stance ain't gonna move no mountains so he's dealt with the
>hard choice of Pats or "walk"... Who really walks away from
>the Patriots??? He goes anywhere else and he's starting over
>and has to be fit into a system instead of being integral like
>he is currently.

I'm not convinced he doesn't fit into other systems well. As well as the Pats? of course not, but you can plug him in almost anywhere and he'll be an asset. The Pats' strategy has worked for them, but Willie talks about Wes like he's being greedy. I have a problem with that mindset, particularly when we've seen how long that money (doesn't) lasts with some former players.

Also, not only did he not call out logan mankins for his holdout, he excused Corey Dillon's holdout when he was still on the team. Cmon. I think this is just a continuation of the stereotype of WRs as divas. Defensive tough guys don't like them getting all the shine. It's true.

>^^^I feel you but the point is he can get injured at any time.
> He deserves security but history does not help his cause. I
>think that despite his talents the market would be soft for
>Wes...

based on what? we didn't get to see the market for Wes because he didn't hit Free Agency.

>^^^I dunno man... Willie ain't Rodney or Tedy... I think he
>sees clearly what is going on. The market for Wes ain't high.
> As much as he's accomplished the GM are noting that the
>Patriots don't really run the ball, their personnel packages
>are a nightmare and favor Wes immensely, there aren't many QBs
>or supporting personnel that rival Tom and Co. so Wes's stats
>are absolutely in whole or in part a product of that...
>Factor in his age and size...the franchise tag almost seems a
>favor. I think Willie is speaking code and telling dude to
>"do him" if he thinks he can get a better deal and the touches
>because it's likely the front office won't budge..

I still think there would be a few suitors. Everyone always values the deep threat, and that's fine, but most QBs can't throw deep with consistency. He's the best slot receiver in the game, that will find a place on any team. Also, he can look at your request to ball out this year as "What have I been doing for the past 5 years?" I think that's a more legitimate argument for a younger guy.

  

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BLACK_ADAM
Member since Mar 21st 2006
4791 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 03:25 PM

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315. "More thoughts..."
In response to Reply # 314


  

          

>right, but if he's wrong or if he's talking just to talk then
>he should be called out on it. I think he/the other ex-Pats
>are legitimately mad about the stuff he/they are complaining
>about, but I still think they're off-base.

^^^I don't agree. Willie seems a genuinely amiable guy. It remains to be seen



>True, and I don't necessarily disagree with the philosophy,
>but it is easier to deal with as a Free Agent, which Willie
>was, then as a Franchised player. I really don't think anyone
>who hasn't been franchised can say what that player should or
>shouldn't do. There's really only one negotiating tactic. As
>poor as it is, it's all they have for a (relatively) desperate
>situation.

^^^I can see that...but as an unrestricted FA...although franchised can't he still negotiate/be negotiated for? A $9M one year deal is nothing to sneeze at especially if what Willie is saying is correct...that it is about half/more than half of his current contract.. I guess it depends on what type of franchise tag has been placed on Wes...



>Regardless of how some discount his worth, you don't get the
>second most receiving yards 2 out of the past 3 years and
>receive little to no interest. Had he hit the FA market
>someone would have thrown a decent amount of money at him. I'm
>not even sure Welker was unwilling to take a smaller deal
>and/or less years to stay with the Pats, but he did want to
>negotiate with them and the franchise tag took that off the
>table.

^^^That's just it! What kind of franchise tag is on Wes? Depending on the tag...negotiation are not necessarily off of the table... My understanding is that he can either still negotiate with teams leaving the Pats with a chance to match or that he can't negotiate and the Patriots can field offers to their advantage in dealing him... Where is that level of interest if his numbers are really indicative of his talent?

...and didn't he play with Randy Moss at least three of those 5 years?
...and didn't his receptions/production drop the year Randy was shuttled?
...and didn't his numbers pick back up the year he played with Hernandez and Gronkowski?

...and the Patriots don't really run the ball do they????

...see what I'm getting at? I don't like how Wes is being treated but I think there's more to this as the Patriots organization has been insanely accurate with valuation and assessing players...


>I understand that philosophy, and that applies to most
>players' carers as well, but the threat of age/injury is
>always on the back of a players' mind in the franchise
>situation. believe me, part of me loves/respects the Pats'
>stinginess, but that doesn't invalidate Welker's claim to
>financial security either.


^^^I don't disagree either but it's the model and the valuation that counts. *WE* believe that Wes should be rewarded. I don't dispute that but the front office subscribes to VALUE VALUE VALUE and "FVALUE"

...I think they are using the tag to drive up Wes' price because they have other pieces in place...(that are cheaper).. I mean...look at how Bellichick works those draft picks.. He is absolutely a "get out while you're hot" type of gambler..

...and Wes is that hot chip...

RUTHLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



>I'm not convinced he doesn't fit into other systems well. As
>well as the Pats? of course not, but you can plug him in
>almost anywhere and he'll be an asset. The Pats' strategy has
>worked for them, but Willie talks about Wes like he's being
>greedy. I have a problem with that mindset, particularly when
>we've seen how long that money (doesn't) lasts with some
>former players.
>

^^^I dunno man... His success points to a ton of factors that contribute to his skill set. I'm not saying he isn't exceptional but those mismatches don't create themselves.. His pure numbers don't tell the whole story...

>Also, not only did he not call out logan mankins for his
>holdout, he excused Corey Dillon's holdout when he was still
>on the team. Cmon. I think this is just a continuation of the
>stereotype of WRs as divas. Defensive tough guys don't like
>them getting all the shine. It's true.


^^^Did not remember this.. For real??? Ok...if Willie is speaking with Lawry's then I can see your point..but human beings are allowed to contradict themselves and he is removed from that locker room..

So "sight vs. insight" is a key distinction to make...


>>^^^I feel you but the point is he can get injured at any
>time.
>> He deserves security but history does not help his cause.
>I
>>think that despite his talents the market would be soft for
>>Wes...
>
>based on what? we didn't get to see the market for Wes because
>he didn't hit Free Agency.


^^^Again... That's just it.. What kind of tag is on him? Depending on the type of franchise tag he can still be "courted"... We need to establish this because now I'm real interested in how asshholish either party is being..



>I still think there would be a few suitors. Everyone always
>values the deep threat, and that's fine, but most QBs can't
>throw deep with consistency. He's the best slot receiver in
>the game, that will find a place on any team. Also, he can
>look at your request to ball out this year as "What have I
>been doing for the past 5 years?" I think that's a more
>legitimate argument for a younger guy.
>

^^^If we establish what kind of franchise tag is on the man then we can assess why there are/are no suitors. Wes is a nice WR but best slot in the game in that system. I don't think he puts up that level of production anywhere else...and again 3 of those 5 years across from Moss and 1 year playing with Gronk, Hernandez and Branch. That 2010 year was decent but no Moss.....and the Patriots son't run the Football.. of course the receivers will dominate the touches...


"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."

  

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rjc27
Charter member
14602 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 12:04 PM

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303. "Willie should stfu"
In response to Reply # 296


  

          

like Patriot players have never held out... Mankins almost sat out a full season! Let Wes get his money, as of now he hasn't missed shit but a few voluntary work outs

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Thu Apr-26-12 12:55 PM

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308. "we've seen this before. ex-pats play the bad guy in negotiations"
In response to Reply # 296


  

          

rodney, bruschi, and willie all pop off, get press, and then the pats organization gets to reset itself as less aggressive as those guys say.

if you don't think the pats didn't love this/play a role in this, you're wrong.
-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

  

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