Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby Okay Sports Okay Sports Archives topic #82180

Subject: "Jason Heyward an all-star...WTF" This topic is locked.
Previous topic | Next topic
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 07:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"Jason Heyward an all-star...WTF"


  

          

...dude is hitting .251. How does he get on the all-star team. 11 hrs and 42 rbi aren't bad, but an all-star, really. I saw him play a couple of spring training games and I was more than impressed, but an all-star, GTFOOH. If he played in philly the fans would be ripping management for bringing him up too early and bent on getting him sent back down, .251

...and the argument against not pitching Strasburg in the all-star game is that it would be direspectful to veterans, that he has to prove himself first. WTF, dude has a 2.45 era and 53 SO in 6 starts

Sportscenter, i blame thee

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
lmao @ "I saw him a couple times in spring training."
Jul 06th 2010
1
you want more...
Jul 06th 2010
2
Wow, great analysis.
Jul 06th 2010
3
Didn't Strasburg set the record for strike outs...
Jul 06th 2010
4
      Heyward was fan voted, Strasburg would have to be coach selected
Jul 06th 2010
7
      More stat-line bullshit
Jul 06th 2010
8
           I can't argue for taking a pitcher off...
Jul 06th 2010
9
                RE: I can't argue for taking a pitcher off...
Jul 06th 2010
10
                No they can't
Jul 06th 2010
12
                Heyward isn't an issue of deserving, he was voted in
Jul 06th 2010
11
                Why do you think so many people voted for him...
Jul 06th 2010
14
                     Probably because he's an exciting player
Jul 06th 2010
15
                          Jason Bay and Zach Duke...
Jul 06th 2010
16
                               RE: Jason Bay and Zach Duke...
Jul 06th 2010
17
                               lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?
Jul 06th 2010
18
                                    RE: lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?
Jul 06th 2010
25
                                         RE: lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?
Jul 06th 2010
30
                                              RE: lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?
Jul 06th 2010
31
                                                   RE: lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?
Jul 06th 2010
32
                                                        RE: lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?
Jul 06th 2010
33
                                                             Not enough Braves' fans care to flood the ballot
Jul 06th 2010
34
                                                                  As far as the thumb injury defense goes...
Jul 06th 2010
36
                                                                       letting him play through an injury is likely.
Jul 06th 2010
37
                                                                       So now he's Chipper Jones too...
Jul 06th 2010
38
                                                                            it does sound logical.
Jul 06th 2010
39
                                                                            ...to the team's detriment, huh?
Jul 06th 2010
41
                                                                            Chipper gave them no choice by tearing his ACL.
Jul 06th 2010
44
                                                                            RE: So now he's Chipper Jones too...
Jul 06th 2010
40
                                                                                 RE: So now he's Chipper Jones too...
Jul 06th 2010
42
                                                                                 the answer to that is fairly simple
Jul 07th 2010
89
                                                                       Unless it's a torn ligament he's not going to do any additional damage
Jul 06th 2010
46
                                                                            RE: Unless it's a torn ligament he's not going to do any additional dama...
Jul 06th 2010
48
                                                                                 That doesn't seem strange to me
Jul 06th 2010
49
                                                                                 Yeah, that's not the case.
Jul 06th 2010
55
                                                                                 That's fine
Jul 06th 2010
59
                                                                                 Since you know more about swinging a baseball bat than me
Jul 06th 2010
54
                                                                                 RE: Since you know more about swinging a baseball bat than me
Jul 06th 2010
57
                                                                                 all i know is that I think he played in the minors, but I could be way o...
Jul 07th 2010
90
                                                                                 Heyward pre-injury form was a fluke then?
Jul 06th 2010
56
                                                                                      Bingo!
Jul 07th 2010
91
                As CIA said, fans vote position players
Jul 06th 2010
13
the only thing I'll say is Heyward hit over .300 in the minors
Jul 06th 2010
5
The fans wanted to see him
Jul 06th 2010
6
you thought Manuel would *not* pick Howard?
Jul 06th 2010
19
      I don't think I really gave it much though
Jul 06th 2010
20
      cry me a river for Votto, I've been hearing fans bitch about that on
Jul 06th 2010
21
      He should send Charlie Manuel a "Thank You" letter
Jul 06th 2010
22
      RE: cry me a river for Votto, I've been hearing fans bitch about that on
Jul 06th 2010
23
      I'm with you all the way on this.
Jul 06th 2010
27
      Bomb just plagiarized Scott Van Pelt
Jul 06th 2010
29
           I did? Sounds good to me, I'm a fan of Van Pelt
Jul 06th 2010
43
                He went hard yesterday with the "Votto should be thankful" bs
Jul 06th 2010
51
                     well he's certainly gettin more press for missing than say Elvis Andrus
Jul 06th 2010
53
                          I agree, but Howard still should have been on the fan ballot
Jul 06th 2010
58
      If the objective is to win the game...
Jul 06th 2010
26
           Hong-Chih Kuo has been a better lefty reliever than Wagner
Jul 06th 2010
28
           Have you seen Rhodes' numbers if so, it's moot
Jul 06th 2010
35
           LOL @ putting the Top HR/RBI guy of the past half decade in as
Jul 06th 2010
45
                In that sense, he's the other side of the coin to A-Rod
Jul 06th 2010
47
                     Votto missed some time in 2009
Jul 06th 2010
50
                          finishing a full season amongst the league leaders in a meaningful
Jul 06th 2010
52
                               howard has 2 more years on votto
Jul 07th 2010
61
                                    How did we get on Ryan Howard...
Jul 07th 2010
63
                                    He's kind of a perennial whipping boy for a certain crowd
Jul 07th 2010
64
                                    You mean like the time of year for mvp voting...
Jul 07th 2010
65
                                         MVP isn't a stat race
Jul 07th 2010
66
                                         Is back-to-back W.S. appearances...
Jul 07th 2010
67
                                              Have you made a post in here that talks about actual baseball?
Jul 07th 2010
68
                                         Precisely
Jul 07th 2010
69
                                         What was the argument again...
Jul 07th 2010
71
                                              RE: What was the argument again...
Jul 07th 2010
73
                                                   OK, What was the argument again...
Jul 07th 2010
74
                                                        Well the argument would be that Pujols was better
Jul 07th 2010
75
                                                             ...and last year?
Jul 07th 2010
76
                                                                  crunch the stats yourself, stat man
Jul 07th 2010
77
                                                                  I'm confused
Jul 07th 2010
78
                                                                       I'm saying, how are you guys
Jul 07th 2010
80
                                                                       I think the argument is based on merit through the first half of 2010
Jul 07th 2010
84
                                                                       Al had the luxury of hitting behind Skip Schumaker and Colby Rasmus
Jul 07th 2010
82
                                                                            Haha
Jul 07th 2010
85
                                         where did you get this from?
Jul 12th 2010
100
                                    ur supposed to base it on what they did in the first half of THAT year
Jul 07th 2010
70
                                    where are you getting your numbers from...
Jul 07th 2010
72
                                    baseball reference
Jul 07th 2010
83
                                    ASG doesnt exist in some kind of 1st-half stat vacuum, grow up pussy
Jul 07th 2010
81
                                         you have a man-crush on howard..but ur calling people pussy
Jul 12th 2010
98
                                         you came back a week later to say that?
Jul 12th 2010
103
                                         so then Johan should have made the NL All-Star team over Ubaldo?
Jul 12th 2010
113
                                    Charlie Speaks
Jul 12th 2010
102
                                    RE: howard has 2 more years on votto
Jul 07th 2010
79
                                         RE: howard has 2 more years on votto
Jul 12th 2010
101
                                              RE: howard has 2 more years on votto
Jul 12th 2010
104
                                              I'd take this bet
Jul 12th 2010
106
                                              I never mentioned OBP, sticking to power #s, we can do the other 4 tho
Jul 12th 2010
110
                                                   RE: I never mentioned OBP, sticking to power #s, we can do the other 4 t...
Jul 12th 2010
111
                                                        nah I was talking money, if not, I'm unmoved, peace
Jul 13th 2010
116
                                                             Yeah, I'm not really into betting with internet strangers
Jul 14th 2010
119
                                                                  Its pretty easily done really, Id think if u were sure u want free money
Jul 16th 2010
131
                                              you're not too bright are u ?
Jul 12th 2010
114
                                                   if Ive tried explain some simple things over & over yet u cant grasp it
Jul 13th 2010
115
                                                        just admit u have a double-standard
Jul 14th 2010
117
                                                             you can stop your bloodcot crying anytime now n/m
Jul 16th 2010
130
                                              Wagner declined the AS game this year.
Jul 12th 2010
105
NOPE!!!! well-deserved!
Jul 06th 2010
24
Brennan Boesch is whiter, has less ABs and BETTER Bers across the board
Jul 06th 2010
60
Heyward is in ONLY due to fan voting...
Jul 07th 2010
62
Stop the Howard hate...
Jul 07th 2010
86
no we dont
Jul 07th 2010
87
...and the hate continues
Jul 07th 2010
88
      something for you haters
Jul 08th 2010
94
           Haha, that was great
Jul 08th 2010
95
heyward was voted in
Jul 12th 2010
99
Heyward looks like the second coming of Aaron
Jul 07th 2010
92
So now he's Hank Aaron too...
Jul 08th 2010
93
Hppy now, statman? Heyward will not play in ASG; Hong-Chih Kuo in
Jul 12th 2010
96
And Ryan Howard is in the starting line-up!
Jul 12th 2010
97
WTF? Hong-Chih Kuo? No Stras?
Jul 12th 2010
107
      too many starters + they offered to Wagner first
Jul 12th 2010
108
      He's pitching really well
Jul 12th 2010
109
           Four elbow surgeries, including 2 Tommy John
Jul 12th 2010
112
                Yeah, he was filthy last night :\
Jul 14th 2010
118
                     he's from Taiwan.
Jul 14th 2010
120
                     Is that a city in Korea?
Jul 14th 2010
121
                          right on the 38th parallel
Jul 14th 2010
122
                               you all look alike
Jul 14th 2010
123
                     People know who he is now
Jul 14th 2010
124
7/15 = O for 4, nice catch though...
Jul 16th 2010
125
You left out his biggest contribution though
Jul 16th 2010
126
I like what you did here
Jul 16th 2010
129
This is one of the oddest agendas on OKP
Jul 16th 2010
127
      @Real and every other personal attack posted...
Jul 16th 2010
128
           Oh, so Heyward definitely fucked your girlfriend.
Jul 16th 2010
132
                chat room thugs...
Jul 16th 2010
133
                     Hey, I ain't the one mad at Jason Heyward
Jul 21st 2010
204
                          RE: Hey, I ain't the one mad at Jason Heyward
Jul 21st 2010
205
                               your mother is your girlfriend?
Sep 06th 2011
444
7/16 = 6 shutout innings and 7 strikeouts...
Jul 17th 2010
134
While I appreciate what you're doing
Jul 17th 2010
135
      You finally got it....
Jul 17th 2010
136
7/17 = Heyward benched vs lefty starter...
Jul 18th 2010
137
RE: 7/17 = Heyward benched vs lefty starter...
Jul 18th 2010
138
early!
Jul 26th 2010
232
Yeah, the Braves loaded up on right handed batters because
Jul 18th 2010
139
So Charlie Manuel should bench Ryan Howard tonight...
Jul 18th 2010
140
      Well, Howard's OBP v. LHP is 11 points lower than Heyward's this year...
Jul 18th 2010
141
      What theory? That's what the manager did.
Jul 18th 2010
142
           all-stars don't get benched...
Jul 18th 2010
143
                He's the future of that franchise, the fans like him, cry about it...
Jul 18th 2010
144
                You're sooooo mad
Jul 18th 2010
145
                Can't believe we split the fucking series considering how we were
Jul 18th 2010
146
                     Manny Parra is beyond useless
Jul 19th 2010
152
                          I almost choked on my beer yelling at the dumb fuck.
Jul 19th 2010
153
                Have you just started watching baseball in the last 2 years?
Jul 19th 2010
148
                He doesn't even watch baseball, just reads stats, clearly
Jul 19th 2010
149
                Ryan Howard was benched today against a lefty starter...
Jul 31st 2010
251
                     RE: Ryan Howard was benched today against a lefty starter...
Aug 01st 2010
252
                          He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter
Aug 01st 2010
253
                               RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter
Aug 01st 2010
254
                                    RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter
Aug 01st 2010
255
                                         RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter
Aug 01st 2010
256
                                              RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter
Aug 01st 2010
257
                                                   RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter
Aug 01st 2010
258
                                                        RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter
Aug 01st 2010
261
                                                             RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter
Aug 02nd 2010
265
I like how you completely omitted this part from your madness
Jul 18th 2010
147
how much longer before Black Superman passes Votto in HRs for
Jul 19th 2010
150
Only needs one more HR to be the league leader...
Jul 19th 2010
151
wow you're still mad about this?
Jul 19th 2010
154
      I think it's more gloating because Howard lost his mind last week
Jul 19th 2010
155
      The national league player of the week...
Jul 19th 2010
157
           He definitely earned it
Jul 19th 2010
158
      I was never mad, I just really enjoy being right n/m
Jul 19th 2010
156
           except you were mad & you weren't right.
Jul 19th 2010
159
                ^^Will Keep Be Crying All The Way Thru the Big Man's Cooperstown Career
Jul 20th 2010
163
                     I like howard. you're still mad & wrong though.
Jul 20th 2010
191
Where does he rank for R.O.Y...
Jul 20th 2010
160
If I had to fill out a ballot right now I'd go
Jul 20th 2010
165
      My rub with Buster is he only really will have half a season
Jul 20th 2010
167
      They traded Molina to Texas...
Jul 20th 2010
168
      They knew he was unrestricted and Michael Main was on offer
Jul 20th 2010
171
      LOL
Jul 20th 2010
178
           ...and another real baseball fan is lured into this idiotic thread
Jul 20th 2010
181
                Get out while you can!
Jul 20th 2010
183
      I doubt Garcia can keep his ERA anywhere near there by September
Jul 20th 2010
169
      His numbers are agumented by Larussa's protection plan
Jul 20th 2010
173
      Agreed, I'm betting that will wash out though if his production is good
Jul 20th 2010
179
      so you have heyward 2nd or 3rd...
Jul 20th 2010
170
           By WAR he's the 3rd best rookie in the NL right now
Jul 20th 2010
177
From an article about Dominic Brown...
Jul 20th 2010
161
From Bleacher Report. Go away and die.
Jul 20th 2010
162
Oh yeah I read that article, it was thoughtful and well researched
Jul 20th 2010
164
dumbass article.
Jul 20th 2010
166
so now he's struggling...
Jul 20th 2010
172
      For the last time: he was VOTED IN
Jul 20th 2010
174
      and my OP blamed sportscenter...
Jul 20th 2010
180
           I projected him in the Top 3 in ROY, nobody else
Jul 20th 2010
185
      you're still crying about the All-Star game
Jul 20th 2010
176
           and you'll get another update after Strasburg's start tomorow
Jul 20th 2010
182
           did you mean Scott Rolen?
Jul 20th 2010
184
                you're right...either way it's immaterial at this point
Jul 20th 2010
186
what a dumb comparison between Boesch and Stanton:
Jul 20th 2010
175
"bentagain" will overlook this one: 3-4, sing, dub, trip, rbi
Jul 20th 2010
187
cotDAMN he was hitting the ball hard tonight
Jul 20th 2010
188
And to think, all those kids in Atlanta who believed in him...damn shame
Jul 20th 2010
189
And in the subplot Votto is 1-2 with a 3 run jack
Jul 20th 2010
190
I was scoreboard watching last night...
Jul 21st 2010
192
      You?!? Scoreboard watching instead of game watching?!? GET OUT OF HERE!
Jul 21st 2010
193
      This post has all kinds of long term potential at this point
Jul 21st 2010
194
      RE: You?!? Scoreboard watching instead of game watching?!? GET OUT OF HE...
Jul 21st 2010
196
           two words: wild card
Jul 21st 2010
198
                RE: two words: wild card
Jul 21st 2010
199
      Castro? Come on.
Jul 21st 2010
195
           RE: Castro? Come on.
Jul 21st 2010
197
                I apologize for that, I was doing two things at once and got mixed up
Jul 21st 2010
200
                     RE: I apologize for that, I was doing two things at once and got mixed u...
Jul 21st 2010
201
                          RE: I apologize for that, I was doing two things at once and got mixed u...
Jul 21st 2010
202
                               RE: I apologize for that, I was doing two things at once and got mixed u...
Jul 21st 2010
203
7/21 Strasburg W, but can we be serious for a minute...
Jul 21st 2010
206
RE: 7/21 Strasburg W, but can we be serious for a minute...
Jul 25th 2010
208
      fuck you and your stats...
Jul 25th 2010
210
           RE: fuck you and your stats...
Jul 25th 2010
224
Average has climbed 22 points in 9 games since coming back
Jul 25th 2010
207
He's locked in lately, been fun to watch
Jul 25th 2010
209
      I'll admit he's put together some good games...
Jul 25th 2010
211
           RE: I'll admit he's put together some good games...
Jul 25th 2010
220
@B9 and CIA have you even seen Strasburg pitch....
Jul 25th 2010
212
I'm a Nationals fan, I've seen every game he's pitched, 3 of them live
Jul 25th 2010
221
lol
Jul 25th 2010
225
I've seen him live more than you have
Aug 02nd 2010
263
7/25 Watching the Rockies reminded me of another guy...
Jul 25th 2010
213
Surprised you can watch Heyward play from behind Strasburg's nut sack
Jul 25th 2010
214
I see a theme in your posts...
Jul 25th 2010
215
      Maybe you should read what you're posting
Jul 25th 2010
222
           And yet another homoerotic post from The Real...
Jul 25th 2010
223
what exactly is your agenda?
Jul 25th 2010
216
      Wow, 216 posts later someone finally got...
Jul 25th 2010
217
      what "lengths" have people really gone to in this post?
Jul 25th 2010
226
           RE: what "lengths" have people really gone to in this post?
Jul 25th 2010
227
                you're a fucking idiot.
Jul 25th 2010
228
                     Basically but I was trying to be nicer about it
Jul 25th 2010
229
                          7/26 Strasburg starts v Braves tomorrow night...
Jul 26th 2010
230
      I'm living civic responsibility-free since 2000
Jul 25th 2010
218
           Good luck catching the sox...
Jul 25th 2010
219
           RE: I'm living civic responsibility-free since 2000
Jul 26th 2010
231
           many thanks.
Jul 26th 2010
234
He's listed at 6'5"
Jul 26th 2010
233
7/28 No Strasburg, Heyward still an 0-3 with 2 SOs...
Jul 28th 2010
235
Hey idiot
Jul 28th 2010
236
RE: Hey idiot
Jul 28th 2010
237
I don't understand your obsession with batting average
Jul 28th 2010
240
stop using sabermetric excuses.
Jul 28th 2010
241
      I'm not busting out WARP3 here, it's On Base Percentage
Jul 28th 2010
242
           schtick? next you'll tell me RBI totals have more to do
Jul 28th 2010
243
Phillies call-up Dominic Brown after Victorino injury...
Jul 28th 2010
245
      RE: Phillies call-up Dominic Brown after Victorino injury...
Jul 28th 2010
246
LOL I can't believe ya'll keep responding to this clown...
Jul 28th 2010
238
RE: LOL I can't believe ya'll keep responding to this clown...
Jul 28th 2010
239
      why should we listen to the dumbest person in the post?
Jul 28th 2010
244
7/29 DomDay bitches...
Jul 29th 2010
247
7/30 Another 0 for 3 for Heyward...
Jul 30th 2010
248
7/30 3 hits including a game-winning double. be mad. nm
Jul 30th 2010
249
Sees Heyward leading his team in a tight NL East
Jul 31st 2010
250
8/1 The weekend wrap-up...
Aug 01st 2010
259
your obsession with batting average is awesome
Aug 01st 2010
260
RE: 8/1 The weekend wrap-up...
Aug 01st 2010
262
RE: 8/1 The weekend wrap-up...
Aug 02nd 2010
266
      RE: 8/1 The weekend wrap-up...
Aug 02nd 2010
267
           RE: 8/1 The weekend wrap-up...
Aug 02nd 2010
268
                222 vs 378
Aug 02nd 2010
269
                RE: 8/1 The weekend wrap-up...
Aug 02nd 2010
270
You don't actually watch baseball, do you?
Aug 02nd 2010
264
8/2 Another O for for Heyward....
Aug 03rd 2010
271
Fun Fact: Through 88 rookie games, he has 20 more walks
Aug 03rd 2010
272
8/3 The rook gets a hit, avoids another O for...
Aug 04th 2010
273
Starlin also fell on the basepath and basically lost the game
Aug 04th 2010
274
(psst: he doesn't watch the games or understand stats)
Aug 04th 2010
275
When you bat second, OPS is sort of important
Aug 04th 2010
276
RE: When you bat second, OPS is sort of important
Aug 04th 2010
277
      He is white, of course he has to leap Heyward
Aug 04th 2010
278
      Pulling the race card, WOW...
Aug 04th 2010
281
      okay, name 8 or 9 other rookies having better seasons than Heyward
Aug 04th 2010
280
           RE: okay, name 8 or 9 other rookies having better seasons than Heyward
Aug 04th 2010
282
                Just stop posting about baseball
Aug 04th 2010
283
                Two players you didn't know existed before being told about in this post
Aug 04th 2010
287
                     RE: Two players you didn't know existed before being told about in this ...
Aug 04th 2010
289
                          You know who first compared him to Hank Aaron? Hank Aaron
Aug 04th 2010
292
                               RE: You know who first compared him to Hank Aaron? Hank Aaron
Aug 04th 2010
293
                                    Since your new failed stich is the ROY race, who won in Hanks class?
Aug 04th 2010
294
                                         RE: Since your new failed stich is the ROY race, who won in Hanks class?
Aug 04th 2010
295
                                         No, just that your hate is misplaced, overly-stat based, and wrong
Aug 04th 2010
296
                                         RE: Since your new failed stich is the ROY race, who won in Hanks class?
Aug 04th 2010
297
                                         RE: Since your new failed stich is the ROY race, who won in Hanks class?
Aug 04th 2010
299
                                              RE: Since your new failed stich is the ROY race, who won in Hanks class?
Aug 05th 2010
305
I'm assuming that this is just brilliant schtick at this point but...
Aug 04th 2010
279
      RE: I'm assuming that this is just brilliant schtick at this point but.....
Aug 04th 2010
284
           RE: I'm assuming that this is just brilliant schtick at this point but.....
Aug 04th 2010
285
                RE: I'm assuming that this is just brilliant schtick at this point but.....
Aug 04th 2010
286
                     RE: I'm assuming that this is just brilliant schtick at this point but.....
Aug 04th 2010
288
                          at 40 games, Jason Heyward was batting .290 with an OPS > 900
Aug 04th 2010
290
                               I brought that up in earlier posts but it didn't merit a response
Aug 04th 2010
291
                               RE: at 40 games, Jason Heyward was batting .290 with an OPS > 900
Aug 05th 2010
306
Call It Anything's stream of posts in here = 5% knowledege
Aug 04th 2010
298
http://gifplace.com/files/300_legchop.gif
Aug 04th 2010
300
Haha, that was great
Aug 04th 2010
301
8/4 Another O for for the rook...
Aug 04th 2010
302
Nope, that looks like an ugly game
Aug 04th 2010
303
Tell the whole story...
Aug 05th 2010
304
      I like how you use hits whenever possible
Aug 05th 2010
315
           Tyler Colvin and Mike Stanton are both rookie RFs
Aug 05th 2010
316
                There are definitely a lot of promising young rookie RFs this year
Aug 05th 2010
317
                     RE: There are definitely a lot of promising young rookie RFs this year
Aug 05th 2010
318
yes, you missed where he made Luis Castillo shit himself
Aug 05th 2010
307
      RE: yes, you missed where he made Luis Castillo shit himself
Aug 05th 2010
308
           It was in a Dave Obrein blog entry back in March
Aug 05th 2010
309
                RE: It was in a Dave Obrein blog entry back in March
Aug 05th 2010
310
                     the beat-writer for the Braves from the AJC is credible, yes
Aug 05th 2010
311
                     RE: the beat-writer for the Braves from the AJC is credible, yes
Aug 05th 2010
312
                          I don't give a fuck to find it for an idiot, it won't make you any less ...
Aug 05th 2010
313
                     O'brein's a journalist for the AJC
Aug 05th 2010
314
8/5 Heyward gets a hit...
Aug 06th 2010
319
So Heyward went .333 with a .500 OPS. Thanks.
Aug 06th 2010
320
Sidebar for B9 and CIA
Aug 06th 2010
322
      RE: Sidebar for B9 and CIA
Aug 06th 2010
323
      Also, Werth was a top 3 vote getter in the first two releases of voting
Aug 06th 2010
325
      RE: Sidebar for B9 and CIA
Aug 06th 2010
326
      My grandfather didn't have a hate campaign for a player he didnt watch
Aug 06th 2010
324
           RE: My grandfather didn't have a hate campaign for a player he didnt wat...
Aug 06th 2010
327
                So you are pissed that he had a great April and May?
Aug 06th 2010
328
                     RE: So you are pissed that he had a great April and May?
Aug 06th 2010
329
                          It's like arguing with a tin can
Aug 06th 2010
330
                               RE: It's like arguing with a tin can
Aug 06th 2010
331
                                    moving the goal posts and again failing to understand simple math
Aug 06th 2010
332
                                         RE: moving the goal posts and again failing to understand simple math
Aug 06th 2010
333
                                              You're missing the entire point
Aug 06th 2010
334
this has to be the most bizarre agenda in okaysports history
Aug 06th 2010
321
i seen 334 posts and was like "HOWWW???"
Aug 06th 2010
335
Too bad OKS wasn't around in 1994
Aug 06th 2010
336
      guess you missed post 218
Aug 06th 2010
337
      Sure did
Aug 06th 2010
338
      While maintaining my position, I love that you thought of that
Aug 06th 2010
339
8/8 The weekend wrap-up...
Aug 08th 2010
340
8/9 Homerless streak ends at 32 games...
Aug 10th 2010
341
8/10 E:60's lead story is Jason Heyward...
Aug 11th 2010
342
So, not for the first time, you are being a hate-filled idiot
Aug 11th 2010
343
RE: So, not for the first time, you are being a hate-filled idiot
Aug 11th 2010
344
      So by failing to address it, you admit being wrong again.
Aug 11th 2010
346
      Again, did you just start watching baseball?
Aug 11th 2010
347
           You're confused...
Aug 11th 2010
348
RE: 8/10 E:60's lead story is Jason Heyward...
Aug 11th 2010
345
8/10 DNP against another LH SP...
Aug 11th 2010
349
8/11 The officially unofficial (I'm better than Jason Heyward) ROY 10'
Aug 12th 2010
350
8/12 Starlin Castro is on FYYAAAAHHHH!!!!
Aug 12th 2010
351
8/15 The Weekend Wrap-up
Aug 15th 2010
352
8/18 The Worst All-Stars, Ever
Aug 18th 2010
353
Terry Steinbach was hitting .217 when he started the 88 All-Star Game
Aug 18th 2010
354
RE: Terry Steinbach was hitting .217 when he started the 88 All-Star Gam...
Aug 18th 2010
355
      He always has spring training...Instant Legend
Aug 18th 2010
357
With regards to your query...
Aug 18th 2010
360
      RE: With regards to your query...
Aug 19th 2010
362
Dominic Brown better
Aug 18th 2010
356
8/18: 3-3 with the game-winning, walk-off single
Aug 18th 2010
358
And I'm the Troll...
Aug 18th 2010
359
      NOPE your fault.
Aug 18th 2010
361
           RE: NOPE your fault.
Aug 19th 2010
363
                5th game winning hit of the year
Aug 19th 2010
364
8/19 1 for 3 with a SB and R...
Aug 19th 2010
365
He's also 4th in WPA
Aug 19th 2010
366
RE: 8/19 1 for 3 with a SB and R...
Aug 19th 2010
367
      RE: 8/19 1 for 3 with a SB and R...
Aug 20th 2010
368
           You were upset Strausburg wasn't "voted in", aka, you're an idiot
Aug 20th 2010
369
                RE: You were upset Strausburg wasn't "voted in", aka, you're an idiot
Aug 20th 2010
370
8/20 Buster's first visit to Philly...
Aug 20th 2010
371
RE: 8/20 Buster's first visit to Philly...
Aug 20th 2010
372
      RE: 8/20 Buster's first visit to Philly...
Aug 20th 2010
373
           RE: 8/20 Buster's first visit to Philly...
Aug 20th 2010
374
*cough*
Aug 22nd 2010
375
9th time all year somebody's reached base 6 times in 6 PAs
Aug 22nd 2010
376
lol bentagain lol
Aug 22nd 2010
377
RE: *cough*
Aug 22nd 2010
378
      RE: *cough*
Aug 22nd 2010
379
           RE: *cough*
Aug 22nd 2010
380
                Correct
Aug 22nd 2010
381
                     RE: Correct
Aug 23rd 2010
383
                          RE: Correct
Aug 23rd 2010
385
the L that keeps on giving
Aug 23rd 2010
382
8/23 Heyward has the first 4 hit game of his career...
Aug 23rd 2010
384
It was the 9th time this year he'd been on base 4+ times though
Aug 23rd 2010
386
      RE: It was the 9th time this year he'd been on base 4+ times though
Sep 01st 2010
394
Since you didn't want to up this post I will
Aug 31st 2010
387
My OP was on July 6...
Aug 31st 2010
388
      *watches airplane fly over your head*
Aug 31st 2010
389
9/1 Jason Heyward comes to life...
Sep 01st 2010
390
Oh, because he's black you don't like him. Thanks for admitting it.
Sep 01st 2010
391
Finally got hot?
Sep 01st 2010
392
First of all...
Sep 01st 2010
395
I never brought up race in a popularity vote context
Sep 01st 2010
397
On a similar note
Sep 01st 2010
396
      Guys who aren't fast but are good baserunners...
Sep 01st 2010
398
      I was 15 rows up behind home plate
Sep 01st 2010
399
      I was *this* close to making a post about it the other night
Sep 01st 2010
400
I took the liberty of running some numbers on the NL rookie class too
Sep 01st 2010
393
9/2 0/3 v Johan = LH SP
Sep 02nd 2010
401
I bet you only vote for people based on wedge issues too
Sep 02nd 2010
402
RE: I bet you only vote for people based on wedge issues too
Sep 02nd 2010
404
Ryan Howard is a career .230 hitter against lefties.
Sep 02nd 2010
403
RE: Ryan Howard is a career .230 hitter against lefties.
Sep 02nd 2010
405
      exactly. when Howard was Heyward's age
Sep 02nd 2010
406
           RE: exactly. when Howard was Heyward's age
Sep 02nd 2010
407
                RE: exactly. when Howard was Heyward's age
Sep 02nd 2010
408
                     RE: exactly. when Howard was Heyward's age
Sep 02nd 2010
409
RE: 9/2 0/3 v Johan = LH SP
Sep 02nd 2010
410
9/4 Jose Tabata enters the race...
Sep 04th 2010
411
Techincally he was 1-3 v. LHP and 0-2 v. RHP last night
Sep 04th 2010
412
9/5 Starlin Castro now qualified for batting title...
Sep 05th 2010
413
Since we've discussing batting splits I'd like to add this
Sep 08th 2010
414
      RE: Since we've discussing batting splits I'd like to add this
Sep 08th 2010
415
           The batting race in the NL has been really interestng this year
Sep 08th 2010
416
                what's your take on Mike Stanton...
Sep 08th 2010
417
                     RE: what's your take on Mike Stanton...
Sep 10th 2010
418
                          RE: what's your take on Mike Stanton...
Sep 10th 2010
419
                               RE: what's your take on Mike Stanton...
Sep 10th 2010
420
                                    Now you're just being all responsible
Sep 10th 2010
421
                                    20 HRs in two hundred ninety something ABs...
Sep 13th 2010
424
                                    RE: what's your take on Mike Stanton...
Sep 06th 2011
445
where ya at
Sep 12th 2010
422
so it looks like an L for my not finishing in the top 5...
Sep 12th 2010
423
Heyward's Race for .400 (Swipe)
Sep 13th 2010
425
And that was posted on ESPN...
Sep 15th 2010
426
Looks like my only hope is Buster Posey...
Sep 16th 2010
427
For NL ROY, go with Buster Posey
Oct 01st 2010
428
RE: Jason Heyward an all-star...WTF
Nov 15th 2010
429
And so it begins...The 11' Jason Heyward watch
Mar 16th 2011
430
so how are you morphing one of the worst agendas now?
Mar 16th 2011
431
      Should be an interesting year
Mar 16th 2011
432
           I admire your persistence on this matter
Mar 17th 2011
433
                The issue with his lack of back cartilage
Mar 17th 2011
434
The thread that keeps on giving
Mar 31st 2011
435
No joke, I now call Heyward 'The Agenda' because of this post.
Mar 31st 2011
436
      He's on pace to hit 162 HRs this year
Mar 31st 2011
437
           Why do you need any sort of proof in this shitty post still?
Mar 31st 2011
438
                Every time I see this post I'm reminded of this...
Mar 31st 2011
439
                     'Tilting at windmills' works, too
Mar 31st 2011
440
Matt Diaz
Sep 05th 2011
441
John Jaha Jr
Sep 05th 2011
442
Constanza
Sep 06th 2011
446
This remains the oddest agenda in OKS
Sep 06th 2011
443
The Jay Hey Kid
Sep 29th 2011
447
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^TALKING ABOUT IT
Sep 29th 2011
448
Hasn't even played 300 career games yet and is 22 years old
Sep 29th 2011
449
      ^^^ Pleas Copped
Sep 29th 2011
450
           Salvage his [2 year] career?
Sep 29th 2011
451
           He was overrated and is basically the 3rd Upton brother
Sep 29th 2011
452
           Am I missing something? The Upton brothers are both good.
Sep 29th 2011
453
                BJ's good now?
Sep 30th 2011
454
                     If you trust the metrics, yes
Sep 30th 2011
455
                     I'd say he's a middle class man's Carlos Gomez
Sep 30th 2011
456
                          I think you're undervaluing him on two fronts here
Sep 30th 2011
458
                     Pretty much
Sep 30th 2011
457
                          *DEAD* @ This QUIET MAGMA
Sep 30th 2011
459
           yeah Salvage
Sep 30th 2011
460
           Pleas Copped? Not really
Sep 30th 2011
461
                yeah Pleas Copped. really
Sep 30th 2011
462

dEs
Member since Sep 01st 2006
34879 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 08:26 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "lmao @ "I saw him a couple times in spring training.""
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I agree that dude isn't an all-star, but it's plain silly to say they brought him up too early. he's only hitting .251 because of his injured thumb

_____

shann.email/inbox.pls.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 09:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "you want more..."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I knew he wasn't hitting for average, so i looked up some stats. Thanks ESPN.com...

when compared to other out-fielders, thats not the whole league, jason heyward's best stat, i.e. the only one he ranks in the top ten for outfielders is...

2nd in walks which tranlates to 8th in on base percentage, on the contrary he is 12th in strikeouts

every other batting statistic he doen't even rank in the top 20 for outfielders, WTF

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 09:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "Wow, great analysis. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Heyward was batting over .300 with an OPS of 1.017 before his thumb injury midway through May. The next 24 games he played with the injury is where his numbers took a hit. Philly fans would be booing an injured two time rookie of the month, because their dipshits. oh, and he's still set to start the game just because the Braves and MLB want the hype, but he's already said he's likely to not play.

As for Strausburg, he's only pitched for one month and hasn't been nearly as dominant as the hype would have you think. Part of that is the horrid defense he's got behind him, but another part of it is he's still trying to figure out how to pitch to major leaguers that can key in on speed. Besides, tell me which National League starter that was taken for the bullpen is he forcing off?


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "Didn't Strasburg set the record for strike outs..."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

...in the first 3 starts of a major league pitcher's career. What did Heyward do again?

As for making an excuse for not hitting. Welcome to the major leagues. Playing with injuries is part of the job. Maybe a more reasonable explaination is that pitchers are starting to see him for the second time and making the adjustment.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "Heyward was fan voted, Strasburg would have to be coach selected"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

Different criteria. If the situation was reversed, it's very conceivable that the outcome would be reversed as well.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "More stat-line bullshit"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Strasburg is also 2-2. Fuck a record, you didn't answer the question: who is he forcing off the current roster? Follow up (that you will duck): why?

What has Heyward done: back to back rookie of the months, would have been three in a row if not for the injury. The last back-to-back National League rookie of the month to start a season? Albert Pujols.

As for "an excuse", please tell me how you grip a bat with your top hand without the use of your thumb and how effective you think you'll be batting that way.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "I can't argue for taking a pitcher off..."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

...they deserve to be there. Heyward doesn't, bottom line. There are at least 10 other outfielders having a better first half than him.

How can you argue that fans want to see him? ESPN is broadcasting every Strasburg start. Washington is selling out those games, in comparison to the 10,000 they average. If its for the fans, wouldn't you rather see Strasburg pitch against the A.L.s best for an inning or two?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18634 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "RE: I can't argue for taking a pitcher off..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

If its
>for the fans, wouldn't you rather see Strasburg pitch against
>the A.L.s best for an inning or two?

Then the fans can vote him in next year. He's like 20, he'll have the chance to make plenty of all star games.

He's only been up for a month, he doesn't deserve it.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "No they can't"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

>Then the fans can vote him in next year. He's like 20, he'll
>have the chance to make plenty of all star games.

Fans don't vote for pitchers.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "Heyward isn't an issue of deserving, he was voted in"
In response to Reply # 9
Tue Jul-06-10 10:47 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

>...they deserve to be there. Heyward doesn't, bottom line.
>There are at least 10 other outfielders having a better first
>half than him.

But 21.2 million people voted and Heyward got more than them.

>How can you argue that fans want to see him?

Because they voted for him more than they voted for other players.

>ESPN is broadcasting every Strasburg start. Washington is selling >out those games, in comparison to the 10,000 they average.

We otherwise average 20,000.

>If its for the fans, wouldn't you rather see Strasburg pitch against
>the A.L.s best for an inning or two?

Yes, but the selection process is different. If pitchers were selected by a fan vote, Strasburg probably would have gone. Charlie Manuel made the decision that he didn't want Strasburg on the team.

You seem to be mad at some unknown entity for electing somebody that the fans overwhelmingly wanted to see but not electing somebody that they were not able to elect in the first place.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "Why do you think so many people voted for him..."
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

...could it be that every ESPN analyst has this guy ranked as the #1 player to watch in 2010. Every baseball insider had this guy rated as the #1 minor league player. They hyped him on ESPN, show his highlights, shower him with praise...and he's hitting .251. They are going to look like idiots if he doesn't get rookie of the year, which will probably go to Strasburg anyway.

My argument is, at least Strasburg has not only lived up to the hype, but he has also done something historic in striking out 8 or more in his first 3 starts

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "Probably because he's an exciting player"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

>...could it be that every ESPN analyst has this guy ranked as
>the #1 player to watch in 2010. Every baseball insider had
>this guy rated as the #1 minor league player. They hyped him
>on ESPN, show his highlights, shower him with praise...and
>he's hitting .251. They are going to look like idiots if he
>doesn't get rookie of the year, which will probably go to
>Strasburg anyway.

You're talking about Jason Heyward hype and using Strasburg as your counter example? Strasburg has received just as much hype as Heyward.

>My argument is, at least Strasburg has not only lived up to
>the hype, but he has also done something historic in striking
>out 8 or more in his first 3 starts

Your argument is inherently flawed because pitchers are more insulated from the hype that you are railing against because they are not elected by the popular vote.

Also Heyward was NL Rookie-of-the-Month in April & May. As noted previously in the post, that is historic.

All that being said you're talking about Strasburg living up to the hype after 1 month in the majors. Meanwhile, 2 months into the majors Heyward was definitely in the same ball park in terms of performance:

Stephen Strasburg after 1 month:

2-2 36.2 IP, 2.45 ERA, 53 K, 10 BB, 169 ERA+ 1.064 WHIP

Jason Heyward after 2 months:

195 PA .292/.410/.578 10 HR 38 RBI

Strasburg has had 6 starts. It's a little early to say lived up to the hype. Especially if you're going to ignore Heyward's first two months in baseball and just damn him for having a bad June while he was fighting injury.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "Jason Bay and Zach Duke..."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

...both got N.L. rookies of the month, back-to-back. What's historic about Heyward?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "RE: Jason Bay and Zach Duke..."
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Even with his slump and injury, his current OPS is .821. Here's the list of 20 year olds who finished the season with an OPS of .821 or better:

Willie Mays
Ken Griffey
Ty Cobb
Tony Conigliaro
Orlando Cepeda
Vada Pinson
Mel Ott
Mickey Mantle
Frank Robison
Jimmie Foxx
Al Kaline
Ted Williams
Alex Rodriguez

That's 13 names and 11 HOFers. Better company than Herb Score and Karl Spooner.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
bleekgilliam_420
Charter member
7357 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

this is starting to sound like a personal beef.
like was said above....dude was raking before the thumb injuries and is one of the best prospects in baseball.

---------------------------------------

http://twitter.com/malael

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "RE: lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

The first thing every analyst does every year is talk about snubs. Well how about guys who don't deserve to be all-stars but are voted in. Nobody even mentioned that this guy isn't playing right now and is in a slump/injured. Nobody even mentions a guy like Andrew McCutchen who'll probably get a sick contract and play for the yankees once he's released from prison/pittsburg.

The issue is, how does the baseball viewing audience, outside of Atlanta even know about this guy. ESPN is force feeding you some bullshit about a rookie hitting .251 being the next Willie Mays and you're all buying it, while a guy like Strasburg is setting records and doing things that haven't been done in the history of baseball, and they rationalize his all-star obmission by his rookie status, WTF

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 12:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
30. "RE: lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

>The issue is, how does the baseball viewing audience, outside
>of Atlanta even know about this guy. ESPN is force feeding you
>some bullshit about a rookie hitting .251 being the next
>Willie Mays and you're all buying it, while a guy like
>Strasburg is setting records and doing things that haven't
>been done in the history of baseball, and they rationalize his
>all-star obmission by his rookie status, WTF

So it sounds like you'd prefer to either change the system so that the manager selects everybody (possibly eliminating Heyward) or expand the fan voting to pitchers (possibly including Strasburg)?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 12:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "RE: lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

just out of curiosity, what is the rationale for fans not voting on pitchers. any thoughts?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 01:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "RE: lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Just guessing, but I think there's a fear that the major markets would flood the voting and obscure pitchers elsewhere to an extreme degree.

Fan voting is a bit dicey when you have Placido Polanco threatening to take the starting 3B spot because Philly does a tremendous job of supporting their players. When there is one player per position out of the theoretical 16 players, it has the potential to skew things. But with 1-2 reserves in the infield and several in the OF, the rest of the process has a chance to balance it out somewhat.

If this were extended to pitchers it wouldn't be difficult to imagine a situation in which somebody like Cole Hamels received the 4th most votes while being something like the 50th best pitcher in baseball.

I think it's baseball's way of hedging their bets while giving the fans some power, but not too much to serve as an embarassment when every pitcher would conceivably come from LA, Philly, and St. Louis.

That being said, I'm sure there's a middle ground and I think that if Strasburg has 8-9 starts as opposed to 6, there might be more of a movement to change the process.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 01:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "RE: lol....what is your issue with jason heyward?"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

compared to Braves fans who flood the voting for Heyward when he's only played 71 games. that's what i don't get, what's the difference when comparing a rookie pitcher who's started 6 games, probably 8 by all-star weekend, and a rookie outfielder who's only played 71 games. Heyward got off to a great start and has since digressed. In comparison, Strasburg has gotten off to a great start and has yet to digress. The justification for the Heyward selection is a direct contradiction for not selecting Strasburg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 01:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
34. "Not enough Braves' fans care to flood the ballot"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

This right here proves your beef with Heyward is personal for some reason. Before the thumb injury dude was putting up numbers like a seasoned vet and he's only 20.

If you don't know how crucial a thumb injury is to a hitter than you don't know much about baseball.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 01:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "As far as the thumb injury defense goes..."
In response to Reply # 34
Tue Jul-06-10 01:32 PM by bentagain

  

          

...you mean to tell me the Braves, one of the most consistently successful sports franchises in the last 20 years, let the future of their franchise continue to play for a month, or 24 games from the previous post, with an injury, thumb or otherwise. You can't seriously believe that his slump over the past month can be completely contributed to an injury. Organizations are starting to face him for the second time, it happens to every rookie

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 01:55 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "letting him play through an injury is likely. "
In response to Reply # 36


          

after all, this is a franchise whose offensive centerpiece has been Chipper Jones.

besides, Heyward has already shown he can adjust: after batting .300 through the first half of April, he dropped down to .240 by the start of May. he figured it out and cranked things back up to .292 to begin June.

and even with his slump, his OPS is *still* higher than McCutchen, Braun and Bay.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "So now he's Chipper Jones too..."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

...are you people serious. Why would the Braves continue to let this guy play in June if he's injured. They might need him in september. They have a chance to win the division and make the playoffs and you're telling me they are willing to risk serious damage to a future franchise player by letting him play injured because Chipper Jones does it. does that even sound logical to you, seriously?

I already conceded that his on base percentage is top 10 for outfielders due to the high number of walks he draws, no doubt he's got a great eye. But he also ranks 12th in total strikeouts and isn't even in the top 30 for any other offensive category...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:17 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "it does sound logical. "
In response to Reply # 38


          

if Atlanta let a Hall of Famer play through a ton of injuries -- mostly to his own and the team's detriment -- why would it be so far fetched to have a rookie phenom do the same?

whether it's right is another conversation, but Atlanta has set the precedence. imitation as flattery by Heyward?

anyway, Heyward's recent struggles are likely a combination of both the injury and adjustments of being a first-year MLB player.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "...to the team's detriment, huh?"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Chipper is one of the greatest switch hitters to ever play. What were they suppose to do trade him to the A.L. so he can d.h. I'm sure if Chipper got hurt during his ROOKIE year, nobody would allow him to play through it, that's just ridiculous

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:36 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
44. "Chipper gave them no choice by tearing his ACL."
In response to Reply # 41


          

although I'm sure he tried.

anyway, you're pretty worked up about this. it's kind of annoying, since you're skimming over and misinterpreting my posts (Chipper trying to play through injuries was often a bad idea; he cost himself 30 games of struggles instead of going on the 15-day DL and coming back healthy).

plus it's kind of silly to complain about media hype and fan voting when that's clearly what the All-Star game caters too. imagine if they gave out Silver Sluggers and Gold Gloves in July -- it's ridiculous!

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "RE: So now he's Chipper Jones too..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

I agree with what I believe to be the basic premises of your post:

1) Jason Heyward, while having had a pretty good season up to now, is arguably not one of the 10 best OFs in the NL
2) Jason Heyward's profile has benefitted from a lot of national media exposure thus far
3) The media exposure probably has more to do with his selection to the AS team than his performance
4) Stephen Strasburg, has also been pretty good this season, but arguably isn't one of the 10 best pitchers in the NL
5) Strasburg's profile has benefitted from a lot of national media exposure
6) Due to the constraints of the system and the decision of one manager, Strasburg was not selected to pitch in the AS game. This could be viewed as a bit of a double standard

With all of that said, I guess I just don't see it as a major issue.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
42. "RE: So now he's Chipper Jones too..."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

Thank you. I have never seen anyone respond to a post with such grace before. The major issue I had was when analysts and news anchors go directly to who got snubbed, instead of how did this guy get voted in, which was my initial reaction to the Heyward selection and I just wanted to see if anyone shared my opinion or if I was acting irrationally

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 03:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
89. "the answer to that is fairly simple"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

by going to "who got snubbed" they are praising players, by saying "this guy should be an all-star"

doing the reverse is putting players down, by saying "this guy shouldn't be an all star"

most writers/talking heads wouldn't go out of their way to put players down

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
46. "Unless it's a torn ligament he's not going to do any additional damage"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "RE: Unless it's a torn ligament he's not going to do any additional dama..."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

so his recent slump is from an injury that won't do any additional damage by playing with it, but he's on the disabled list, huh?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "That doesn't seem strange to me"
In response to Reply # 48


          

>so his recent slump is from an injury that won't do any
>additional damage by playing with it, but he's on the disabled
>list, huh?

Without knowing or caring about his specific medical details, the situation you described doesn't seem uncommon at all. A player could quite easily be hurt and capable of playing through pain but with diminished results. For awhile, his on-field management could say to themselves, "If he's not going to hurt himself more, then we'll happily take 80% of Jason Heyward" and then rather easily change their minds and say "He needs to take the time to get better so that we get 100% of Jason Heyward for the stretch".

In fact, the difference could have nothing to do with Jason Heyward's health and everything to do with Atlanta's faith in their internal outfield depth. The Twins have done the same thing with Joe Mauer a number of times. Having Mike Redmond and Drew Butera around as the only available backups has resulted in Mauer trying to play through pain if possible. Having Jose Morales or Wilson Ramos around has meant DL trips because his contribution could be approximated in his absence.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 03:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "Yeah, that's not the case. "
In response to Reply # 49


          

McClouth is still loopy and wasn't playing that great to begin with, and Diaz has just came back from his own thumb surgery and subsequent infection. Gregor Blanco was having a good AAA season so there's one warm body, and Hinske has been better than expected but still not an every-dayer. The rest of the outfield options are sort of duds (Schaffer) or a year away (Willie Cabrera), which has the Braves involved with names like Willingham, Hart, Upton and Bautista.

That sort of lack of depth and still putting Heyward on the DL should tell you the severity of the injury; there was a 24 hour period before Dave O'Brien leaked the info that surgery and a shutdown was a real possibility. Instead, it's a deep bone bruise and severe jam, no ligament damage, to his throwing hand thumb; didn't affect his arm much, but a directional hitter to lose his guide hand thumb? This guy has something against reality to be bugging out on Heyward like this.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 03:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "That's fine"
In response to Reply # 55


          

He described an injury scenario I found not just plausible, but downright common. That left me with two options. The first, which I chose, required dealing in hypotheticals to explain how such a sequence of decision-making could occur, and I could even buttress it with something I know to be true - the Twins' occasional handling of Mauer. The second, however, would require me to look up the Braves outfield depth, including performances in the high minors by guys like Gregor Blanco, and would cause a chain reaction wherein reading Gregor Blanco's minorleague entry at BBRef makes me realize precisely how unproductive I've been this afternoon and I actually begin doing work.

Obviously, the choice was clear.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 03:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
54. "Since you know more about swinging a baseball bat than me"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          


I'm gonna step back. You win.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 03:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "RE: Since you know more about swinging a baseball bat than me"
In response to Reply # 54
Tue Jul-06-10 03:25 PM by Call It Anything

  

          

I'm not sure enough posters have enough understanding of your credentials to see the subtle ether contained in this post. Nevertheless, I find it hysterical.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 03:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
90. "all i know is that I think he played in the minors, but I could be way o..."
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 03:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "Heyward pre-injury form was a fluke then? "
In response to Reply # 48


          

and have you ever tried to grip something without your thumb? You know you lose not just the digit, but everything down in the meat of your palm. Yeah. Go try and bat like that and keep the bat square.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 03:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
91. "Bingo!"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "As CIA said, fans vote position players"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Heyward won; Fans also voted Chase Utley, who is hurt. He may not "deserve it" but the first two months of the season cemented his place in the fans minds.



Pitchers: Strasburg has only been up a month; his organization didn't bring him up earlier because either they are cheap or they thought he wasn't ready. The players vote the first 9 pitchers on, none of them selected him. The league then fills out the other 4 spots, didn't select him.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:03 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "the only thing I'll say is Heyward hit over .300 in the minors"
In response to Reply # 0


          

with a .900 OPS as a teenager. he wasn't going to learn much more by crushing AAA pitching.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 10:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "The fans wanted to see him"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Good for him. Charlie Manuel selecting Ryan Howard was the real head-scratcher for me.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:25 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "you thought Manuel would *not* pick Howard?"
In response to Reply # 6


          

I sure don't blame him -- Howard is his player, he has a longer resume, and fans care about him more. plus Manuel has to manage Howard for the next six years, so it's kind of awkward to insist that Votto is better than him.

if Robinson Cano was playing for the Mets, I'd expect Manuel to take Utley over him too.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "I don't think I really gave it much though"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

It does appear that Votto is going to get the last fan vote slot, which he absolutely deserves. So I guess that leaves Omar Infante as the sore thumb.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "cry me a river for Votto, I've been hearing fans bitch about that on"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

the radio all morning & it's comical.

As if the difference between their numbers in the first half of one season is so pronounced that it outweighs Howard's career resume & name recognition.

FOH.

Votto's actually getting more shine from not making it then most of the reserves are getting for making it & if as many people cared about Howard's selection over him then they could: a) vote for him or b) wait for the Reds to be back-to-back pennant winners so their manager can select him.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "He should send Charlie Manuel a "Thank You" letter"
In response to Reply # 21


          

>Votto's actually getting more shine from not making it

If Votto's agent successfully uses "inflamed sports talk radio callers for two days in July" as an argument in his arbitration hearing do you think that Ryan Howard will ask for a cut?

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "RE: cry me a river for Votto, I've been hearing fans bitch about that on"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

>Votto's actually getting more shine from not making it then
>most of the reserves are getting for making it

This part is definitely true.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 12:10 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "I'm with you all the way on this."
In response to Reply # 21
Tue Jul-06-10 12:15 PM by will_5198

          

it's half a season. lots of players have great half seasons; whether it's in the first half or second is totally arbitrary. the word travesty is also losing value when Reds fans didn't care enough to even vote.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 12:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
29. "Bomb just plagiarized Scott Van Pelt"
In response to Reply # 21


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "I did? Sounds good to me, I'm a fan of Van Pelt"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

Was this on his radio show this morning?

We don't get it out here.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 03:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "He went hard yesterday with the "Votto should be thankful" bs"
In response to Reply # 43


          

on some "what casual baseball fan even knows who Joey Votto is" big market assholeism.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 03:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "well he's certainly gettin more press for missing than say Elvis Andrus"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

is for making it.

I don't really see how that's debateable.

Now saying that the guy himself should be happy for not making it is extra but the bottom line is this 'controversy' is actually good for his career & if he actually becomes a player who's consistently the best first basemen in baseball for any signinfigant period of time, it will balance itself out.

Transalation: Boo-fucking-hoo.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 03:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "I agree, but Howard still should have been on the fan ballot"
In response to Reply # 53


          

Either way, one or the other would go in: Votto on the strength of the post-snub rage campaign or Howard on the strength of the Philly rage voting.


And please don't bring up Elvis Andrus (or Neftali Feliz) name ever again.

Worst.

Trade.


Ever.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
26. "If the objective is to win the game..."
In response to Reply # 19


          

how do u not pick votto ?
he is beating howard in almost every stat this year.....
i guess charlie figures screw the NL...

picking arthur rhodes over wagner ?
really ?

then again this is the same guy that rambled about how the mets play better at home than away when confronted about the binoculars in colorado


>I sure don't blame him -- Howard is his player, he has a
>longer resume, and fans care about him more. plus Manuel has
>to manage Howard for the next six years, so it's kind of
>awkward to insist that Votto is better than him.
>
>if Robinson Cano was playing for the Mets, I'd expect Manuel
>to take Utley over him too.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 12:12 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "Hong-Chih Kuo has been a better lefty reliever than Wagner"
In response to Reply # 26


          

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 01:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
35. "Have you seen Rhodes' numbers if so, it's moot"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "LOL @ putting the Top HR/RBI guy of the past half decade in as"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

'screwing the NL'.

You bitches make me laugh.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "In that sense, he's the other side of the coin to A-Rod"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

Both are big names in the game, both led their respective leagues in HR/RBI since 2006, both are currently in relative "down" years in 2010, both were selected by their respective managers. Both while on the fringe of being deserving, probably prevented another player who has had a better 3 months thus far in 2010.

In the long run, I don't think either selection really matters.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 02:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "Votto missed some time in 2009"
In response to Reply # 47


          

But when he was on the field he outhit Howard by a non-negligible margin. He's not new to outperforming his colleagues, in any event.

I'd like to be coolly detached from the longterm meaning of All-Star selections, but I've watched too many thoughtless baseball writers use Blyleven's relative lack of All-Star appearances against him in Hall of Fame balloting. It's the worst kind of double counting that wants to reward Howard's name recognition without stopping to consider where, precisely, a player is supposed to acquire name recognition if simply being a really good baseball player isn't enough.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 03:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "finishing a full season amongst the league leaders in a meaningful"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

category for his position (generally one tilted towards power numbers) on a team that wins something might help.

The 'gap' between these guys numbers this season isn't nearly as pronounced as the gap in their career resumes so far.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "howard has 2 more years on votto"
In response to Reply # 52


          

LOL
of course his career numbers are gonna be more pronounced...

if this was the other way around, ud be screaming 'cism all day...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "How did we get on Ryan Howard..."
In response to Reply # 61
Wed Jul-07-10 10:20 AM by bentagain

  

          

...former MVP. Perennial HR and RBI champ. Only Babe Ruth has more consecutive 40HR 120RBI seasons. That Ryan Howard. The same guy who is 4th in the league, not just first baseman, 4th in the league in hits and RBIS. Top 20 in HRS, triples, runs, avg, etc... That Ryan Howard. What's the beef?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "He's kind of a perennial whipping boy for a certain crowd"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

He does a few things well and a other things not so well. Regardless he gets a ton of love from writers and a lot of fans. Some people feel that he gets too much love given the type of player that he is is. Backlash tends to ensue at different times including MVP voting, All-Star selections, or new contracts.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
65. "You mean like the time of year for mvp voting..."
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

...when he was the only player in the history of MLB to lead the league in HRs and RBIs and not receive the MVP.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
66. "MVP isn't a stat race"
In response to Reply # 65


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
67. "Is back-to-back W.S. appearances..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

...and three straight division titles enough evidence he's an all-star, not really sure what the argument is against Ryan Howard, he's ahead of Votto in total hits, doubles, triples, and RBIs. Votto's ahead of him in HRs and AVG and Pujols is inbetween the two of them. Isn't it rational that Votto would be the odd man out until he puts together a whole season? What's the beef

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "Have you made a post in here that talks about actual baseball?"
In response to Reply # 67


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "Precisely"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

Also the year in which he was not even the most valuable player on his team.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "What was the argument again..."
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

...hard to argue numbers and results. Haters

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 11:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. "RE: What was the argument again..."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

In 2008, Chase Utley was a better hitter, a better fielder (at a more important position), and a better base runner.

Essentially, Ryan Howard hit a few more HRs and drove in a few more (but he drove in Utley 32 times that year). He also had a great September, which was good because through August 27th of that year he had a .228/.320/.483 split.

Ryan Howard 2008:

.251/.339/.543 (124 OPS+)
26 2B/4 3B/48 HR 146 RBI
1 SB/1 CS
0 Dewan +/- at 1B
- 7 Net Baserunning Gain
2.8 WAR
36.5 VORP
24.25 Win Shares

Chase Utley 2008:

.292/.380/.535 (135 OPS+)
41 2B/4 3B/33 HR 104 RBI
14 SB/2 CS
+ 46 Dewan +/- at 2B
+21 Net Baserunning Gain
6.6 WAR
63.6 VORP
29.63 Win Shares

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 11:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
74. "OK, What was the argument again..."
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

Ryan Howard's MVP year was 2006, what's the argument against him hitting 48HRs and 146RBIs in 2008, that Utley had a better year. Not sure what your point is. We got ripped off twice in MVP balloting?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 11:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "Well the argument would be that Pujols was better"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

Which he was. But you seemed to be citing the league lead in HR/RBI as evidence that he should have won. I was just offering up that I find it hard to convincingly stake a claim to be the MVP of the league when in my view you are definitively not the best player on your team. At the end of the day, he's just sexier and the BBWAA likes sexier. He hits HRs and drives in a lot of runs. He has had some big moments in a Phillies uniform which the voters tend to like. But Utley was better that year, as were at least 10 other guys in the NL. The right guy won in 2008 regardless.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 11:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
76. "...and last year?"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 11:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
77. "crunch the stats yourself, stat man"
In response to Reply # 76


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 11:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
78. "I'm confused"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

Are you trying to argue that the 6 more RBIs that Howard had over Pujols (who bested him in almost every single other category imaginable) meant that he deserved the MVP over Pujols?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 11:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "I'm saying, how are you guys"
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

arguing against Ryan Howard being on the all-star team, when he's led the league in HRs and RBIs for the past 4 seasons, won an MVP, 2 W.S. appearances, and 3 straight division titles. But you want Joey Votto in instead, who hasn't even been able to put together a whole season. His lines are like 20 and 80 for the last 2 seasons. He needs to do what he's doing for a whole season if he wants to be mentioned in the same breathe as Howard and Pujols. I'd vote for Fielder and Gonzalez before this guy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 12:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
84. "I think the argument is based on merit through the first half of 2010"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

Obviously the All-Star team is not merit based and there is a host of other factors at work. However, objectively, I think it's impossible to argue that Howard has been better in 2010. You seem to be lobbying for some kind of big picture All-Star selection based on past performance in previous seasons which strikes me as strange. I don't there's much support to had for the claim that the previous MVPs should automatically be included on the All-Star roster. Recently Jimmy Rollins, Miguel Tejada, and Juan Gonzalez (twice) have not made the All-Star team in the year immediately following their award.

Also, nobody has made the argument that he is in the same breath as Pujols and Howard for his career to date. Only that from Opening Day to right now, there's a strong argument to be made that he's the MVP of the league and to select a player over him who is in the middle of the pack for his position feels hollow for a game that in theory is supposed to honor the best players of 2010 up to this point, regardless of what anyone has done in past years.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 12:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
82. "Al had the luxury of hitting behind Skip Schumaker and Colby Rasmus"
In response to Reply # 78


          

Howard had to deal with Jimmy Rollins, Shane Victorino and Chase Utley.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 12:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
85. "Haha"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

Yeah, in the same way that I had the luxury of being behind a handicapped school bus on a one lane road.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27115 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 05:07 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
100. "where did you get this from?"
In response to Reply # 65


          

>...when he was the only player in the history of MLB to lead
>the league in HRs and RBIs and not receive the MVP.

Ted Williams twice won the TRIPLE CROWN and did not receive the MVP.

more recently, Cecil Fielder led the league in HR and RBI in 1990 & 1991 and did not receive the MVP.

I'm sure there are more instances, but those immediately came to mind.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. " ur supposed to base it on what they did in the first half of THAT year"
In response to Reply # 63


          

Votto has a higher average ( by 24 pnts )
Votto has more home-runs ( by 6 ) ***
Votto has more RBI's ( by almost 30 )
Votto has higher OBP ( by 68 points ) ***
Votto has higher OPS ( by 100 plus points ) ***
Votto has higher SLG ( by 97 points ) ***
Votto has more TB ( by 12 ) ***
Votto has more walks ( by 21 )

*** = league leader

dont let the fact that votto leads the NL in 5 different Offensive catagories get in the way of supporting Howard for the 2010 all-star selection...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
72. "where are you getting your numbers from..."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

...check my previous response.

Ryan Howard has more total hits, doubles, triples, and RBIs than Votto

Votto has more HRs and a higher AVG which I concede translates to the other categories which are based off of those 2 stats, i.e. OPS, OBP, SLG

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
83. "baseball reference"
In response to Reply # 72


          

now has them tied for RBI

basehits?
howard has 3 more...with 11 more PA...i call that dead even...
and howard has 1 more double/triple than votto..

votto's higher OBP is attributed to the fact that he has almost DOUBLE the amount of walks howard has...

more hr's
higher average
more walks
higher obp

to say that howard is MORE deserving for his 2010 numbers is an outright lie...

how often does someone who is 1st in HR...3rd in BA...1st in OPS...1st in OBP...1st in SLG...get left off the team...

his numbers are better than pujols..but ur making a case for howard?

smh

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 11:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
81. "ASG doesnt exist in some kind of 1st-half stat vacuum, grow up pussy"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 02:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
98. "you have a man-crush on howard..but ur calling people pussy"
In response to Reply # 81


          

>.

smh

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 05:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
103. "you came back a week later to say that?"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27115 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 09:42 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
113. "so then Johan should have made the NL All-Star team over Ubaldo?"
In response to Reply # 81


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 05:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
102. "Charlie Speaks"
In response to Reply # 63


          


how about this...

Manuel was refreshingly honest when asked why he chose Phillies first baseman Ryan Howard and not Cincinnati's Joey Votto, who has similar power numbers as Howard but a big edge in on-base percentage (.414 to .353 entering Sunday).

"He's my guy, our player, my guy," Manuel said of Howard, one of his two position player picks.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 11:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "RE: howard has 2 more years on votto"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

>LOL
>of course his career numbers are gonna be more pronounced...
>
uh, in Howard's first three years in the league: 2005 Rookie Of The Year (in half a season after being stuck behind Thome), 2006 MVP/NL HR/RBI Leader, 2007 47/136/NL East Title.

*looks at Votto's career thus far in comparison*

What were you saying again?

>if this was the other way around, ud be screaming 'cism all
>day...
>
Nah, actually, I wouldn't. Because I'd have some understanding of what overall track record, team success, & name recognition have to do with an All-Star Game selection.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 05:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
101. "RE: howard has 2 more years on votto"
In response to Reply # 79


          

>>LOL
>>of course his career numbers are gonna be more pronounced...
>>
>uh, in Howard's first three years in the league: 2005 Rookie
>Of The Year (in half a season after being stuck behind Thome),
>2006 MVP/NL HR/RBI Leader, 2007 47/136/NL East Title.

and that has what to do with 2010 ? ..

>*looks at Votto's career thus far in comparison*
>
>What were you saying again?
>
>>if this was the other way around, ud be screaming 'cism all
>>day...
>>
>Nah, actually, I wouldn't. Because I'd have some understanding
>of what overall track record, team success, & name recognition
>have to do with an All-Star Game selection.

really ?

explain how Billy Wagner does not get selected over Matt Capps..

overall track record? check
team success ? check
name recognition ? check

to give the nats their all-star
he could have replaced infante with josh willingham...or ryan zimmerman.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 05:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
104. "RE: howard has 2 more years on votto"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

>>>LOL
>>>of course his career numbers are gonna be more
>pronounced...
>>>
>>uh, in Howard's first three years in the league: 2005 Rookie
>>Of The Year (in half a season after being stuck behind
>Thome),
>>2006 MVP/NL HR/RBI Leader, 2007 47/136/NL East Title.
>
>and that has what to do with 2010 ? ..
>
because, genius, you just used Votto being earlier in his career as the reason he has a better overall resume when the fact is his career at the same point was oceans better than Votto's.

In fact, Howard's numbers in power categories are gonna end up being better *this* year despite people's bloodcot crying.

He's already got five more RBIs, he'll pass him in homers & their OPS & in slugging will be better as well. Go check his splits, he's an August/September player historically.

Not to mention poor Joey Votto got in anyway.

>>*looks at Votto's career thus far in comparison*
>>
>>What were you saying again?
>>
>>>if this was the other way around, ud be screaming 'cism all
>>>day...
>>>
>>Nah, actually, I wouldn't. Because I'd have some
>understanding
>>of what overall track record, team success, & name
>recognition
>>have to do with an All-Star Game selection.
>
>really ?
>
>explain how Billy Wagner does not get selected over Matt
>Capps..
>
>overall track record? check

Billy Wags has been injured or terrible or choking down the stretch for the past half decade, the fuck you talkin about?

>team success ? check
>name recognition ? check
>
>to give the nats their all-star
>he could have replaced infante with josh willingham...or ryan
>zimmerman.

that has what to do with Howard in the All-Star Game?

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 06:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
106. "I'd take this bet"
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

>In fact, Howard's numbers in power categories are gonna end up
>being better *this* year despite people's bloodcot crying.
>
>He's already got five more RBIs, he'll pass him in homers &
>their OPS & in slugging will be better as well. Go check his
>splits, he's an August/September player historically.

.350 Obp v. .422
.509 Slg v. .589
.859 OPS v. 1.011
65 RBI v. 60
17 HR v. 22

That's a lot of space to make-up. Not to mention that his RBIs are going to take a hit with Utley out of the line-up. And it isn't like Votto has been playing flukishly good this year. His rate stats aren't that out of line with what he did last year in 131 games.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 06:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
110. "I never mentioned OBP, sticking to power #s, we can do the other 4 tho"
In response to Reply # 106


  

          

I'd give myself a mulligan on any one of the four (so he needs to win 3 of 4) & we can name the stakes from there.

Sound fair?

Utley's absence hurts but so did Jimmy's in the first half.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 07:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
111. "RE: I never mentioned OBP, sticking to power #s, we can do the other 4 t..."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

OBP is implied in OPS so I was listing that as well. I feel like that will be the hardest thing for him to make up. I could see RBIs being a toss-up. I wouldn't bet against Howard for HRs but I don't see him making up the gap in slugging. Even with 3 out of 4 I see it as long odds. I think it's a very bold prediction of your part. Even if Howard puts together a good second half he would still need Votto to slip to catch him. There just seems like too much going on. I've never made a message board bet before but I presume you're talking Avi/Sig as opposed to $. I don't think I'd be interested in the latter.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Jul-13-10 07:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
116. "nah I was talking money, if not, I'm unmoved, peace"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

>OBP is implied in I've
>never made a message board bet before but I presume you're
>talking Avi/Sig as opposed to $. I don't think I'd be
>interested in the latter.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-14-10 08:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
119. "Yeah, I'm not really into betting with internet strangers"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

It's all good though

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 11:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
131. "Its pretty easily done really, Id think if u were sure u want free money"
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

but it's your life. enjoy your weekend.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 11:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
114. "you're not too bright are u ?"
In response to Reply # 104


          

>>>>LOL
>>>>of course his career numbers are gonna be more
>>pronounced...
>>>>
>>>uh, in Howard's first three years in the league: 2005
>Rookie
>>>Of The Year (in half a season after being stuck behind
>>Thome),
>>>2006 MVP/NL HR/RBI Leader, 2007 47/136/NL East Title.
>>
>>and that has what to do with 2010 ? ..
>>
>because, genius, you just used Votto being earlier in his
>career as the reason he has a better overall resume when the
>fact is his career at the same point was oceans better than
>Votto's.

do u even know how to read ?
i didnt use votto being earlier in his career to suggest he has a better overall resume....i used the fact that he is earlier in his career to COUNTER the point that u cant use career numbers when there is a large disparity in games played...


>In fact, Howard's numbers in power categories are gonna end up
>being better *this* year despite people's bloodcot crying.
>
>He's already got five more RBIs, he'll pass him in homers &
>their OPS & in slugging will be better as well. Go check his
>splits, he's an August/September player historically.

so charlie should use future stats howard has not accumulated yet to justify leaving out the guy who in 2010, leads ALL 1st basemen in almost every offensive category...


>Not to mention poor Joey Votto got in anyway.

yeah cuz fans voted him in...

>>>*looks at Votto's career thus far in comparison*
>>>
>>>What were you saying again?
>>>
>>>>if this was the other way around, ud be screaming 'cism
>all
>>>>day...
>>>>
>>>Nah, actually, I wouldn't. Because I'd have some
>>understanding
>>>of what overall track record, team success, & name
>>recognition
>>>have to do with an All-Star Game selection.
>>
>>really ?
>>
>>explain how Billy Wagner does not get selected over Matt
>>Capps..
>>
>>overall track record? check
>
>Billy Wags has been injured or terrible or choking down the
>stretch for the past half decade, the fuck you talkin about?
>
>>team success ? check
>>name recognition ? check
>>
>>to give the nats their all-star
>>he could have replaced infante with josh willingham...or
>ryan
>>zimmerman.


>that has what to do with Howard in the All-Star Game?


are u really that slow ?


ur whole argument that past success weighs in charlie manuels's selection of howard...however did not apply to picking matt capps over wagner.

billy has more past success ( better track record ) than capps
billy's team is in 1st place...capps plays for the last place nats
billy is a 6 time all - star...his name is known much more than capps

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Jul-13-10 07:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
115. "if Ive tried explain some simple things over & over yet u cant grasp it"
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

then who's really the 'not bright' one here?

>>>>>LOL
>>>>>of course his career numbers are gonna be more
>>>pronounced...
>>>>>
>>>>uh, in Howard's first three years in the league: 2005
>>Rookie
>>>>Of The Year (in half a season after being stuck behind
>>>Thome),
>>>>2006 MVP/NL HR/RBI Leader, 2007 47/136/NL East Title.
>>>
>>>and that has what to do with 2010 ? ..
>>>
>>because, genius, you just used Votto being earlier in his
>>career as the reason he has a better overall resume when the
>>fact is his career at the same point was oceans better than
>>Votto's.
>
>do u even know how to read ?
>i didnt use votto being earlier in his career to suggest he
>has a better overall resume....i used the fact that he is
>earlier in his career to COUNTER the point that u cant use
>career numbers when there is a large disparity in games
>played...
>
then that's even dumber, the bottom line is career track record *does matter*, as does name recognition, as does being part of a team that one the prior pennant so your manager is making the selection, cry about it.

It ain't like Chollie put ten Phillies in, Chase is hurt, Halladay is a lock, and Howard's in.
>
>>In fact, Howard's numbers in power categories are gonna end
>up
>>being better *this* year despite people's bloodcot crying.
>>
>>He's already got five more RBIs, he'll pass him in homers &
>>their OPS & in slugging will be better as well. Go check
>his
>>splits, he's an August/September player historically.
>
>so charlie should use future stats howard has not accumulated
>yet to justify leaving out the guy who in 2010, leads ALL 1st
>basemen in almost every offensive category...
>
you act like Howard's getting lapped, he's got more RBIs & his HR/BA/etc aren't *that far off* that his own manager (who's there because Ryan Howard had the best first two rounds of the playoffs of anyone in the NL by a mile last year, after helping win a title the year before) is going to leave him off the team for the dude or that it's some kind of gross injustice.

FOH.

>
>>Not to mention poor Joey Votto got in anyway.
>
>yeah cuz fans voted him in...
>
>>>>*looks at Votto's career thus far in comparison*
>>>>
>>>>What were you saying again?
>>>>
>>>>>if this was the other way around, ud be screaming 'cism
>>all
>>>>>day...
>>>>>
>>>>Nah, actually, I wouldn't. Because I'd have some
>>>understanding
>>>>of what overall track record, team success, & name
>>>recognition
>>>>have to do with an All-Star Game selection.
>>>
>>>really ?
>>>
>>>explain how Billy Wagner does not get selected over Matt
>>>Capps..
>>>
>>>overall track record? check
>>
>>Billy Wags has been injured or terrible or choking down the
>>stretch for the past half decade, the fuck you talkin about?
>>
>>>team success ? check
>>>name recognition ? check
>>>
>>>to give the nats their all-star
>>>he could have replaced infante with josh willingham...or
>>ryan
>>>zimmerman.
>
>
>>that has what to do with Howard in the All-Star Game?
>
>
>are u really that slow ?
>
>
>ur whole argument that past success weighs in charlie
>manuels's selection of howard...however did not apply to
>picking matt capps over wagner.
>
Lemme explain something a couple things to you: Charlie Manuel is Ryan Howard's manager.

Ryan Howard's the top run producer in baseball since he got in the league.

Billy Wagner hasn't done much of note besides choke since Houston up til this year.

>billy has more past success ( better track record ) than
>capps
>billy's team is in 1st place...capps plays for the last place
>nats
>billy is a 6 time all - star...his name is known much more
>than capps
>
>
Billy is also a bitch & no one cares.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Wed Jul-14-10 04:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
117. "just admit u have a double-standard"
In response to Reply # 115


          

in 2010, joey votto is having a better year than ryan howard.
in 2010, billy wagner is having a better year than matt capps.

ryan howard has more past success than joey votto
ryan howard has more name recog than joey votto


billy wagner has more past success than matt capps
billy wagner has more name recog than matt capps

u wanna call billy a bitch and say the fact that he's been injured in the past is a reason to include matt capps over him...then again u'd make up anything to not admit there is a double-standard...that favored the man u have a man-crush on...

its really that simple..


>then who's really the 'not bright' one here?

the one who uses name-calling as evidence to prove his point


>>>>>>>LOL

>>>>>>of course his career numbers are gonna be more
>>>>pronounced...
>>>>>>
>>>>>uh, in Howard's first three years in the league: 2005
>>>Rookie
>>>>>Of The Year (in half a season after being stuck behind
>>>>Thome),
>>>>>2006 MVP/NL HR/RBI Leader, 2007 47/136/NL East Title.
>>>>
>>>>and that has what to do with 2010 ? ..
>>>>
>>>because, genius, you just used Votto being earlier in his
>>>career as the reason he has a better overall resume when
>the
>>>fact is his career at the same point was oceans better than
>>>Votto's.
>>
>>do u even know how to read ?
>>i didnt use votto being earlier in his career to suggest he
>>has a better overall resume....i used the fact that he is
>>earlier in his career to COUNTER the point that u cant use
>>career numbers when there is a large disparity in games
>>played...
>>
>then that's even dumber, the bottom line is career track
>record *does matter*, as does name recognition, as does being
>part of a team that one the prior pennant so your manager is
>making the selection, cry about it.
>
>It ain't like Chollie put ten Phillies in, Chase is hurt,
>Halladay is a lock, and Howard's in.
>>
>>>In fact, Howard's numbers in power categories are gonna end
>>up
>>>being better *this* year despite people's bloodcot crying.
>>>
>>>He's already got five more RBIs, he'll pass him in homers &
>>>their OPS & in slugging will be better as well. Go check
>>his
>>>splits, he's an August/September player historically.
>>
>>so charlie should use future stats howard has not
>accumulated
>>yet to justify leaving out the guy who in 2010, leads ALL
>1st
>>basemen in almost every offensive category...
>>
>you act like Howard's getting lapped, he's got more RBIs & his
>HR/BA/etc aren't *that far off* that his own manager (who's
>there because Ryan Howard had the best first two rounds of the
>playoffs of anyone in the NL by a mile last year, after
>helping win a title the year before) is going to leave him off
>the team for the dude or that it's some kind of gross
>injustice.
>
>FOH.
>
>>
>>>Not to mention poor Joey Votto got in anyway.
>>
>>yeah cuz fans voted him in...
>>
>>>>>*looks at Votto's career thus far in comparison*
>>>>>
>>>>>What were you saying again?
>>>>>
>>>>>>if this was the other way around, ud be screaming 'cism
>>>all
>>>>>>day...
>>>>>>
>>>>>Nah, actually, I wouldn't. Because I'd have some
>>>>understanding
>>>>>of what overall track record, team success, & name
>>>>recognition
>>>>>have to do with an All-Star Game selection.
>>>>
>>>>really ?
>>>>
>>>>explain how Billy Wagner does not get selected over Matt
>>>>Capps..
>>>>
>>>>overall track record? check
>>>
>>>Billy Wags has been injured or terrible or choking down the
>>>stretch for the past half decade, the fuck you talkin
>about?
>>>
>>>>team success ? check
>>>>name recognition ? check
>>>>
>>>>to give the nats their all-star
>>>>he could have replaced infante with josh willingham...or
>>>ryan
>>>>zimmerman.
>>
>>
>>>that has what to do with Howard in the All-Star Game?
>>
>>
>>are u really that slow ?
>>
>>
>>ur whole argument that past success weighs in charlie
>>manuels's selection of howard...however did not apply to
>>picking matt capps over wagner.
>>
>Lemme explain something a couple things to you: Charlie Manuel
>is Ryan Howard's manager.
>
>Ryan Howard's the top run producer in baseball since he got in
>the league.
>
>Billy Wagner hasn't done much of note besides choke since
>Houston up til this year.
>
>>billy has more past success ( better track record ) than
>>capps
>>billy's team is in 1st place...capps plays for the last
>place
>>nats
>>billy is a 6 time all - star...his name is known much more
>>than capps
>>
>>
>Billy is also a bitch & no one cares.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 11:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
130. "you can stop your bloodcot crying anytime now n/m"
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 05:46 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
105. "Wagner declined the AS game this year."
In response to Reply # 101


          

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 11:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
24. "NOPE!!!! well-deserved!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Ceej
Member since Feb 16th 2006
66745 posts
Tue Jul-06-10 06:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
60. "Brennan Boesch is whiter, has less ABs and BETTER Bers across the board"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

buuuuuuuuuuuuuut not an All Star

http://i.imgur.com/vPqCzVU.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 10:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "Heyward is in ONLY due to fan voting..."
In response to Reply # 60


          

cant compare the 2 situations...and brenden is BEASTING....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 12:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
86. "Stop the Howard hate..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...the post was an opinion that Heyward wasn't deserving of his all-star votes. And somehow that got spun into Howard hate. How can you argue for someone like Heyward, rookie with marginal stats, and against someone like Howard, a veteran with Babe Ruth numbers. You people make no sense...

...and people wonder why phildelphia fans are like rabbid dogs

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 12:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "no we dont"
In response to Reply # 86


          


>...and people wonder why phildelphia fans are like rabbid
>dogs


we know why.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 01:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "...and the hate continues"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

I purposely backed out of the previous string of responses to engage in a volley based on the topic, and you are trying to bait me into the same conversation...

...I get it, either you're an Atlanta fan or a Phillies rival. If you support the Heyward selection just say that, why try to make it personal...

...maybe because you're on the other end of this internet connection and not in South Philly...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Jul-08-10 05:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
94. "something for you haters"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3zuwF15Ios&feature=player_embedded

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Thu Jul-08-10 05:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
95. "Haha, that was great"
In response to Reply # 94
Thu Jul-08-10 05:48 PM by Call It Anything

  

          

I lost it at, "Who are you, fucking Jeff Francoeur?"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Justin_Maldonado_7
Charter member
5042 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 02:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
99. "heyward was voted in"
In response to Reply # 86


          

...that has NOTHING to do with Howard being picked by his manager over a player ( votto ) having a better year than howard ( and the starting 1B ) ....


lets not discuss the fact that price is starting ...and howard might as well try to kick the ball cuz the chances of him hitting price are as slim as olive oil.



  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

DJPrimetime
Member since Feb 06th 2003
8416 posts
Wed Jul-07-10 06:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
92. "Heyward looks like the second coming of Aaron"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Hear me out, there are a lot of similarities to their careers.

Meteoric rise through the minor leagues. Hits tremendous shots, crazy strong, good speed, strong arm.

Both of them were in the majors by the age of 20. Hank played one year at "C" ball (which doesn't even exist anymore) and one year at "A" ball.

Aaron only hit .280 with 13 homers his first year. Heyward will probably eclipse it. Everything people are saying about Heyward, they're saying about Aaron.

If Heyward stays healthy, he will have a career that parallels Aaron's. This is just the beginning.

http://djprimetime.tripod.com
http://www.myspace.com/theformularadioshow

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Jul-08-10 03:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
93. "So now he's Hank Aaron too..."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

...and you support that statement by the fact that he had a great season in the minor leagues and a terrible rookie season??? because no-one has ever done that. The home-run king may be a little bit of a stretch

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 10:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
96. "Hppy now, statman? Heyward will not play in ASG; Hong-Chih Kuo in"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Hong-Chih Kuo named to NL All-Star team
July 11, 2010 | 10:40 am
Hong-Chih Kuo, a survivor of four elbow operations and Steve Blass disease, has been added to the National League All-Star team. Kuo is replacing sidelined Atlanta Braves outfielder Jason Heyward.

The left-handed setup man is 3-1 with a 1.03 earned-run average in 25 appearances this season. He has 36 strikeouts in 26 1/3 innings.

Kuo has been particularly dominant against left-handed hitters, who are 0 for 30 with 16 strikeouts against him.

Kuo had the last of his elbow operations in 2007. He reported to spring training the next year with the possibility of retirement on his mind. He told the coaching staff not to baby him. If he got hurt, he told them, he got hurt.

But he might have overcome his greatest obstacle last season, when he suddenly lost the ability to throw a strike. Warming up in the bullpen during a game at Dodger Stadium in May, he sailed a couple of balls into the infield. After spending time talking to two sports psychologists and working out at the Dodgers’ spring training complex in Arizona, Kuo was activated from the disabled list in late July.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 12:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
97. "And Ryan Howard is in the starting line-up!"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 06:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
107. "WTF? Hong-Chih Kuo? No Stras?"
In response to Reply # 96


          

________________________________________
"Take the surprise out your voice Shaq."-The REAL CP3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2H5K-BUMS0

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 06:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
108. "too many starters + they offered to Wagner first"
In response to Reply # 107


          

he turned it down, wants to rest his left ankle.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 06:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
109. "He's pitching really well"
In response to Reply # 107


          

Plus he's had like a half dozen shoulder surgeries (that's a guess, but I might not be exaggerating) so maybe they figured it was best to pick him before his arm literally exploded.

That's all I got. Unless they think it might be cool to see somebody tear a thrice-repaired rotator cuff on national TV.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
topaz
Member since Nov 28th 2002
6236 posts
Mon Jul-12-10 08:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
112. "Four elbow surgeries, including 2 Tommy John"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

>Plus he's had like a half dozen shoulder surgeries (that's a
>guess, but I might not be exaggerating) so maybe they figured
>it was best to pick him before his arm literally exploded.
>

He's been just filthy this year, the only negative thing you can say about him is that he hasn't pitched enough innings (~27 ish I think). Even though he made the team by replacing another injury replacement, I'm happy & proud that someone from my homeland has finally made it - we always though Wang would be the first one.

-
Gang Starr / Nujabes blend - https://youtu.be/lsci1vu6ick
DOOM Tribute - https://youtu.be/qmBQ2BDefKM
Donut of the Heart cover in Javascript - https://youtu.be/afLc2CkC8lk

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Jul-14-10 08:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
118. "Yeah, he was filthy last night :\"
In response to Reply # 112


          

Korean shotput and all.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Wed Jul-14-10 09:17 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
120. "he's from Taiwan."
In response to Reply # 118


          

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-14-10 09:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
121. "Is that a city in Korea?"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Wed Jul-14-10 09:34 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
122. "right on the 38th parallel"
In response to Reply # 121


          

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Jul-14-10 09:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
123. "you all look alike"
In response to Reply # 122


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
topaz
Member since Nov 28th 2002
6236 posts
Wed Jul-14-10 10:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
124. "People know who he is now"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

Good

-
Gang Starr / Nujabes blend - https://youtu.be/lsci1vu6ick
DOOM Tribute - https://youtu.be/qmBQ2BDefKM
Donut of the Heart cover in Javascript - https://youtu.be/afLc2CkC8lk

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 09:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
125. "7/15 = O for 4, nice catch though..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...now hitting .247

Strasburg = 42 innings pitched, 61 strike outs

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 09:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
126. "You left out his biggest contribution though"
In response to Reply # 125
Fri Jul-16-10 09:55 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

The part where he hosed a runner at 3rd with no outs. The Brewers went from a potential 1st & 3rd with no outs to a guy on 1st with 1 out.

Based on Tango's run expectancy matrix (which was calculated during a slightly higher run scoring environment 10 years ago) the Brewers went from looking at an average expectancy of 1.904 to having a run expectancy of .573. A big play. More than likely saved a run and in a 2-1 game, that's huge.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 10:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
129. "I like what you did here"
In response to Reply # 126


          

>Based on Tango's run expectancy matrix (which was calculated
>during a slightly higher run scoring environment 10 years ago)
>the Brewers went from looking at an average expectancy of
>1.904 to having a run expectancy of .573. A big play. More
>than likely saved a run and in a 2-1 game, that's huge.

I know we've talked about this before, but this kind of integration of defense and situational run-values is pretty cool. Like a defensive WPA.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 09:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
127. "This is one of the oddest agendas on OKP"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

The only thing I can come up with is that dude stole your girl.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 10:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
128. "@Real and every other personal attack posted..."
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

...if you don't wish to participate or have anything other than childish comments to contribute, why are you here?

I understand we are on opposite ends of an internet connection, but I doubt the same comments would be made were we face to face.

I have an issue with this guy being selected to the All-Star team based off of his performance to date and created a post for people to state their viewpoints, nothing more nothing less. The worse he does the more I feel my point is valid.

I would hope you were man enough to use other means than typing words to try to insult someone..

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 11:40 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
132. "Oh, so Heyward definitely fucked your girlfriend. "
In response to Reply # 128


  

          


I'd be mad too.

Do you, fam.

----------------------------


O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jul-16-10 12:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
133. "chat room thugs..."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          

...you need a role model, or a hug

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 10:04 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
204. "Hey, I ain't the one mad at Jason Heyward"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          


Cry

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 10:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
205. "RE: Hey, I ain't the one mad at Jason Heyward"
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

I'm not the one talking shit about people's mother through an internet connection. People get killed for less

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27115 posts
Tue Sep-06-11 03:27 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
444. "your mother is your girlfriend?"
In response to Reply # 205


          

>I'm not the one talking shit about people's mother through an
>internet connection. People get killed for less

You kill people? Awesome!

___________________

Mar-A-Lago delenda est

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 07:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
134. "7/16 = 6 shutout innings and 7 strikeouts..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...Strasburg leads the Major Leagues in strikeouts since he was called up with 68...

...and Heyward went 1 for 4 and is still hitting .247

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 08:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
135. "While I appreciate what you're doing"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

1) Nobody argued that Strasburg wasn't good enough to make the All-Star team, simply that there was a fair argument that he didn't have enough service time to justify a selection. So this Strasburg v. Heyward argument is kind of awkward. Meanwhile nobody was really going out of their way to say that Heyward was better or that Strasburg didn't deserve it more. It was just a by-product of fan voting. You really should be e-mailing these to Charlie Manuel.

2) Heyward also drew a walk and scored a run.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sat Jul-17-10 09:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
136. "You finally got it...."
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

...thats the point I was making in my 2nd or 3rd response. How can you justify Heyward's selection and yet argue that Strasburg didn't have enough experience...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 07:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
137. "7/17 = Heyward benched vs lefty starter..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...some all-star

Heyward batted .308 (16-for-52) with a .977 OPS against left-handed pitchers through May 30. But once the left thumb injury he incurred on May 14 started affecting his swing, the 20-year-old All-Star was unable to extend this success. Entering Saturday, he had recorded just five hits in his previous 41 at-bats against southpaws

5 hits in the last 2 months against lefties. maybe they have a book on this guy now, oh no wait, its because of his injury

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 09:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
138. "RE: 7/17 = Heyward benched vs lefty starter..."
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

and after the game he smashed your mom in the equipment room

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
VonClay
Charter member
21865 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 08:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
232. "early!"
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

Instagram: @von_clay

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 09:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
139. "Yeah, the Braves loaded up on right handed batters because"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

Narveson has been giving their lefties the business this season genius.

Did you happen to notice the number of pinch hitters that came in when right handed relievers were brought in? Did you even watch the game? Or were you just trolling through the boxscore so you could continue your agenda?

"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous

http://api.ning.com/files/ibhtJCHk2ouN7HlTkIP92YIUqu9EE4iiYCyAaPKxvpA_/cb_ein0011.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 02:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
140. "So Charlie Manuel should bench Ryan Howard tonight..."
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

...because the Cubs are pitching a Lefty, according to your theory anyway

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 02:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
141. "Well, Howard's OBP v. LHP is 11 points lower than Heyward's this year..."
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

Just saying...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 03:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
142. "What theory? That's what the manager did."
In response to Reply # 140
Sun Jul-18-10 03:13 PM by Lardlad95

  

          




"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous

http://api.ning.com/files/ibhtJCHk2ouN7HlTkIP92YIUqu9EE4iiYCyAaPKxvpA_/cb_ein0011.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 03:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
143. "all-stars don't get benched..."
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

...they're the best in the game. you guys miss the point every time...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 03:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
144. "He's the future of that franchise, the fans like him, cry about it..."
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

He had a good On Base Percentage and pretty good OPS before the injury and during the time when voting was getting into full swing. You don't like that, then we should get rid of fan voting, shit I personally don't think the fans should vote for the shit. But those are the rules and Heyward got in.

But the real issue here is your agenda against a 20 year old rookie during his first year in the majors.

"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous

http://api.ning.com/files/ibhtJCHk2ouN7HlTkIP92YIUqu9EE4iiYCyAaPKxvpA_/cb_ein0011.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
cantball
Charter member
46630 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 04:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
145. "You're sooooo mad"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

Now,I'm not saying he will be the shit,but he could be.Or he could turn into the Uptons pt:2,but give the kid a chance
____________________

Leader to the promised land

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 04:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
146. "Can't believe we split the fucking series considering how we were"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

hitting against Atlanta...it's a fucking shame.

"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous

http://api.ning.com/files/ibhtJCHk2ouN7HlTkIP92YIUqu9EE4iiYCyAaPKxvpA_/cb_ein0011.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
cantball
Charter member
46630 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 03:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
152. "Manny Parra is beyond useless"
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

How do you have that good of stuff,but be so fucking stupid?That 0-2 grand slam pitch is inexcusable for any pitcher that's out of high school
____________________

Leader to the promised land

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 03:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
153. "I almost choked on my beer yelling at the dumb fuck."
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

Shit was inexcusable.

"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous

http://api.ning.com/files/ibhtJCHk2ouN7HlTkIP92YIUqu9EE4iiYCyAaPKxvpA_/cb_ein0011.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 11:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
148. "Have you just started watching baseball in the last 2 years?"
In response to Reply # 143


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 12:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
149. "He doesn't even watch baseball, just reads stats, clearly"
In response to Reply # 148


          

because all his arguments read like someone who just found br and doesn't understand anything more complicated than OPS.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sat Jul-31-10 09:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
251. "Ryan Howard was benched today against a lefty starter..."
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

>...they're the best in the game. you guys miss the point
>every time...

I'm just saying...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 01:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
252. "RE: Ryan Howard was benched today against a lefty starter..."
In response to Reply # 251


  

          

he played in every game this season until last night and didn't get a break because he went to the all-star game. you defend the premature praise for heyward and counter that by bashing howard. pretty thin buddy

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 04:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
253. "He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter"
In response to Reply # 252


  

          

>he played in every game this season until last night and
>didn't get a break because he went to the all-star game. you
>defend the premature praise for heyward and counter that by
>bashing howard. pretty thin buddy

"all-stars don't get benched...they're the best in the game."

All-Stars rest all the time. The season is long. Guys need days off. If you're going to give someone a day off it makes some sense to do it when there's a platoon advantage to be had with the back-up. It's part of the game. Apparently when it happens to Jason Heyward it's because he's bad but when it happens to Ryan Howard it's because he's good. Pretty thin indeed.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 09:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
254. "RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter"
In response to Reply # 253


  

          

In regards to my statement about Heyward getting benched, I was relaying information about the reason. I heard a commentator say he was getting "benched", not rested. Ryan Howard getting 1 day off since the last postseason game of 09' is a little bit of a different situation than a rookie going into a month and half long slump. 0-14 < 4 games. Hi I'm reality, have we met. You might want to find a another target for your attacks on Phillies' players. Let me help you. Raul Ibanez, discuss...

And the Nats are pitching a LH today, and Howard will be in the lineup

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 10:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
255. "RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter"
In response to Reply # 254


  

          

>In regards to my statement about Heyward getting benched, I
>was relaying information about the reason. I heard a
>commentator say he was getting "benched", not rested. Ryan
>Howard getting 1 day off since the last postseason game of 09'
>is a little bit of a different situation than a rookie going
>into a month and half long slump. 0-14 < 4 games. Hi I'm
>reality, have we met. You might want to find a another target
>for your attacks on Phillies' players. Let me help you. Raul
>Ibanez, discuss...

The target of my attack was not Philadelphia but your hypocrisy. My point was trying to illustrate that Heyward getting a rest when a LHP is on the mound is pretty innocuous until you try to suggest it indicates something. Then say, "Oh, so if it's strategy why doesn't Charlie Manuel do it with Ryan Howard?" Then when he does you deflect and say it's for other reasons.

Of course it's for other reasons. Ryan Howard cooled down some after his absurd week and a half after the All-Star break, he probably needed a rest, they're in the middle of a week long road trip, they're playing a shitty team and there's a LHP on the mound. All of those things make it sound like a great game to rest Howard. Meanwhile Heyward is 20 years old, in his first major league season, he's just coming off a stint on the DL, there was a day game on a getaway day following, there's a LHP on the mound, and the team wants to make sure he's healthy/fresh because they're expecting a dog fight to get into the playoffs and don't know how his body holds up because they've never had him on the team. All these things are considerations. Heyward has made three starts against LHPs since. It meant nothing but like a lot of stuff in the post you just throw it to the wall and hope it sticks.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 11:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
256. "RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter"
In response to Reply # 255


  

          

Jason Heyward's 4 DNPs before his DL stint at the end of June:

April 28 @StL SP Jaime Garcia = LH
May 7 @ Phi SP Jaime Moyer = LH
May 9 @ Phi SP Cole Hamels = LH
May 10 @ Mil SP Doug Davis = LH

damn, notice any repeating patterns...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 11:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
257. "RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter"
In response to Reply # 256
Sun Aug-01-10 11:50 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

Days in which Ryan Howard did not start:

5/1/2006: Dontrelle Willis LHP
5/14/2006: Brandon Claussen LHP
6/19/2006: Randy Johnson LHP
7/9/2006: Zach Duke LHP
4/28/2007: Dontrelle Willis LHP
5/5/2007: Noah Lowry LHP
5/30/2007: Randy Johnson LHP
9/9/2007: Dontrelle Willis LHP
7/19/2009: Andrew Miller LHP
7/31/2010: Ross Detwiler LHP

(I wanted to try and rule out injury, so I only listed games in which Ryan Howard started the game before and the game after)

Edit:

Also let's put some of this bullshit in context:

May 5: Started and pulled in the 2nd inning
May 6: Did not start and pinch hit in the 8th
>May 7: @ Phi SP Jaime Moyer = LH
May 8: Did not start and pinch hit in the 8th
>May 9 @ Phi SP Cole Hamels = LH
>May 10 @ Mil SP Doug Davis = LH

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 02:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
258. "RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter"
In response to Reply # 257


  

          

Ryan Howard is 4/11 = .364 against Dontrelle Willis

edit = what context did you put things in, he needed the entire week off, but could be used as a pinch hitter against RH relief?

Why are we still talking about Ryan Howard?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 09:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
261. "RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter"
In response to Reply # 258


  

          

>Ryan Howard is 4/11 = .364 against Dontrelle Willis

Yet he's still sat against him on multiple occasions.

>edit = what context did you put things in, he needed the
>entire week off, but could be used as a pinch hitter against
>RH relief?

Exactly. He left the game with a groin injury. He wasn't starting against RHPs either. But you try to throw it in there like he was being benched because they were just horrified against his ABs against LHPs. He wasn't starting period. When he did get a hit as a pinch hitter they immediately pinch ran for him. He clearly was not healthy.

>Why are we still talking about Ryan Howard?

Because he had a day off against a left-handed pitcher. It was relevant in the context of the thread strand.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Aug-02-10 09:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
265. "RE: He's 0 for his last 14 and got benched against a lefty starter"
In response to Reply # 261


  

          

The lengths you will go to defend a rookie hitting .270...

I looked up his DNPs, which I subsequently posted. A pulled groin is the reason his only 4 DNPs this season were against LH SP, if you say so. A thumb injury caused a month and a half slump, sure why not. What's next, hang nail, sun in my eyes, food poisoning...

I looked up Howard's numbers against Willis, since he appeared 3 times on your list of LH SPs he sat against. With a good BA I would say he had a headache that day, his stomach hurt, his dog ate his homework. Its hard to remember the circumstances from 4 years ago...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Sun Jul-18-10 08:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
147. "I like how you completely omitted this part from your madness"
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

>But once the left thumb
>injury he incurred on May 14 started affecting his swing

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 12:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
150. "how much longer before Black Superman passes Votto in HRs for"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the duration of the season?

A week or so?

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 01:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
151. "Only needs one more HR to be the league leader..."
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

...and he's already 13 rbis ahead, of which he already leads the league...

...and it didn't take long for the Reds to fall into 2nd place, not even a full week of baseball, WTF

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27115 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 03:50 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
154. "wow you're still mad about this? "
In response to Reply # 150
Mon Jul-19-10 03:56 PM by 40thStreetBlack

          

.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 03:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
155. "I think it's more gloating because Howard lost his mind last week"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

Which is fair given the context of about a third of this post.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 07:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
157. "The national league player of the week..."
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

...you mean that Ryan Howard

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 09:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
158. "He definitely earned it"
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 03:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
156. "I was never mad, I just really enjoy being right n/m"
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27115 posts
Mon Jul-19-10 11:19 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
159. "except you were mad & you weren't right."
In response to Reply # 156


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 11:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
163. "^^Will Keep Be Crying All The Way Thru the Big Man's Cooperstown Career"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

I feel sorry for your mother.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27115 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 11:57 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
191. "I like howard. you're still mad & wrong though."
In response to Reply # 163


          

>I feel sorry for your mother.

your mother sucks cocks in hell.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 07:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
160. "Where does he rank for R.O.Y..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...Buster Posey, Starlin Castro, Strasburg, Gaby Sanchez, Jaime Garcia, etc...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
165. "If I had to fill out a ballot right now I'd go"
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

1) Jaime Garcia
2) Jason Heyward
3) Stephen Strasburg

If I had to project a ballot for the end of the season I'd probably say

1 - Jaime Garcia
2 - Buster Posey
3 - Jason Heyward

Tyler Colvin, Mike Leake, and Ike Davis are definitely in the mix as well.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
167. "My rub with Buster is he only really will have half a season"
In response to Reply # 165


          

Since he didn't become the starter until July.
If Ike Davis keeps forcing good players out in a hitter-friendly park, he has a shot to pad already good numbers.
If Garcia keeps his ERA where it is now, he's a shoe in unless Heyward just catches fire. 2.27 through 18 games is far more impressive than Strasburg's 2.03 through 8.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
168. "They traded Molina to Texas..."
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

...where he just got AL player of the week. They must know something...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
171. "They knew he was unrestricted and Michael Main was on offer"
In response to Reply # 168


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Friscos Finest
Member since Apr 20th 2005
2887 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
178. "LOL"
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

Molina:
.261/.313/.361 5hr 23rbi in 238 abs

Posey:
.350/.386/.573 8hr 29rbi in 157 abs

and was NL player of the week last week

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 01:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
181. "...and another real baseball fan is lured into this idiotic thread"
In response to Reply # 178


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 01:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
183. "Get out while you can!"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

Haha

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:36 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
169. "I doubt Garcia can keep his ERA anywhere near there by September"
In response to Reply # 167


          

he's riding a very low home run rate (0.35) and his walk rate (3.58) is not inspiring. he also had some unsustainable BABIP in April and May that is starting to regress to average.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
173. "His numbers are agumented by Larussa's protection plan "
In response to Reply # 169


          

Through 18 games, he only has 103 innings and is on a strict pitch count, for now. If the Cards have to fight for the Central or Wild Card, it's more likely that Larussa will ease up on his counts, much more likely than we see Strasburg go deep this year.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
179. "Agreed, I'm betting that will wash out though if his production is good"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

I don't expect him to hit .350 and slug .575 all year but if he can stay above .300 and .500 (which is damn tough) I would give him the nod over Ike Davis. But Davis could easily jump to #2 on that list if he can keep his numbers where they are now for the whole season and put up 25 HRs.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
170. "so you have heyward 2nd or 3rd..."
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

...and every other player mentioned is having a better season right now, WTF???

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
177. "By WAR he's the 3rd best rookie in the NL right now"
In response to Reply # 170
Tue Jul-20-10 01:01 PM by Call It Anything

  

          

2010 NL Wins Above Replacement for NL rookies...

Batters:

Jason Heyward - 1.5
Gaby Sanchez - 1.1
Buster Posey - 1.0
Ike Davis - 0.9
Chris Heisey - 0.7
Mike Stanton - 0.6
Jose Tabata - 0.6
John Jay - 0.6

Pithers:

Jaime Garcia - 2.9
Stephen Strasburg - 1.8
Mike Leake - 1.4
Jonny Venters - 1.1
Madison Bumgarner - 0.9
John Axford - 0.8
Travis Wood - 0.8
Jhoulys Chacin - 0.8
Drew Storen - 0.7

Just comparing him across the board to the hitters, he's the best.

Buster Posey's numbers look nice, but he's only got 171 plate appearances. Here's a head-to-head:

Buster Posey - .350/.386/.573 7 2B/2 3B/8 HR

Through his first 190 PA this year Jason Heyward - .301/.421/.596 10 2B/3 3B/10 HR

He's damn near doubled Buster's service time and service time is part of the equation for value hence, Heyward has been better than Posey so far this year.

Players like Sanchez and Davis are fairly close to him right now in terms of offensive production and if he kept slipping they could reasonably over take him in a month or so. But right today, he's been the best rookie position player in the NL in 2010 and I don't think it's all that close.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 11:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
161. "From an article about Dominic Brown..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...and why he should stay in the minors for the rest of the season

There’s a reason why, usually, it takes even the most highest-rated prospects months, if not years, to figure out hitting at the major-league level. For every rookie call up who immediately sets the batter’s box ablaze, there are 10 rookies who initially struggle to find their groove. And that’s completely understandable for a young hitter.

For every rookie like Brennan Boesch, there are 10 like Mike Stanton.

Just look at Jason Heyward, the 20-year-old kid in Atlanta who this past spring was getting compared to some of the greatest hitters of all time even before he recorded a single major-league at-bat.

The “Jay-Hey Kid” was all but awarded the NL Rookie of the Year on Opening Day after his first major-league swing produced a screaming laser beam home run that’s still in orbit somewhere almost four months later.

Of course, Heyward’s going to be a star, but he’s also human, especially in his rookie season. Jason’s still having a good rookie campaign, but he’s also experienced some of the typical rookie growing pains that most young hitters struggle through.

Heyward saw his batting average fall from .298 in the end of May to .251 in the end of June. His run production hit a standstill while his strikeout totals exploded before he landed on the 15-day DL at the end of June.

Naturally, the Braves have reported that Heyward’s struggles were attributed to a sore thumb that had bothered him for a month before he went on the DL.

Just perfect, Atlanta. Guess that’s because Hank Aaron and Willie Mays never, ever hit slump, especially at age 20.

The bottom line is that it was too much to just assume Heyward would tear up the league from day one, and the same is true in Brown’s case, even after already playing almost a full season of Triple-A ball in 2010.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 11:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
162. "From Bleacher Report. Go away and die."
In response to Reply # 161


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
164. "Oh yeah I read that article, it was thoughtful and well researched"
In response to Reply # 162
Tue Jul-20-10 12:03 PM by Lardlad95

  

          

...unlike the OP...

"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous

http://api.ning.com/files/ibhtJCHk2ouN7HlTkIP92YIUqu9EE4iiYCyAaPKxvpA_/cb_ein0011.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:18 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
166. "dumbass article."
In response to Reply # 161


          

as mentioned, Heyward already tore up AAA pitching last year. he's already learned more playing a half season in the bigs, and despite his struggles is *still* the best offensive corner option for a sparse Atlanta outfield unit.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
172. "so now he's struggling..."
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

...but deserves to be an all-star and top 3 in the R.O.Y. race. Huh???

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
174. "For the last time: he was VOTED IN "
In response to Reply # 172


          

this "deserves" notion is bullshit. How can you still fail to grasp that?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
180. "and my OP blamed sportscenter..."
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

...for turning all of you into sheep. he got voted in based on all of the media hype and a good start (month, month and a half) to the season. while guys like matt holliday, marlon byrd, matt kemp finished outside the top 3 vote getters. you keep making excuses for his recent slump, still projecting him top 3 in the R.O.Y. race. at what point do you admit he wasn't deserving of being voted in and is not a candidate today for R.O.Y.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 01:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
185. "I projected him in the Top 3 in ROY, nobody else"
In response to Reply # 180
Tue Jul-20-10 01:11 PM by Call It Anything

  

          

There's not a whole lot of groupthink going on in this post. I don't think other posters would appreciate you acting like I speak for all of them as I know I would not like you randomly associating somebody else's opinion with my own.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:53 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
176. "you're still crying about the All-Star game"
In response to Reply # 172


          

Placido Polanco or Omar Infante didn't *deserve* to be in the All Star game over Ryan Zimmerman either -- whoopty damn do. everyone bitches for a day or two and gets over it. meanwhile, you're box score stalking Heyward and swiping stupid articles.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 01:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
182. "and you'll get another update after Strasburg's start tomorow"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

n/m

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 01:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
184. "did you mean Scott Rolen?"
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

Polanco wasn't in the all-star game, he was just activated on saturday

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 01:37 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
186. "you're right...either way it's immaterial at this point"
In response to Reply # 184


          

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26424 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 12:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
175. "what a dumb comparison between Boesch and Stanton:"
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

Boesch: 25 years old, no record of this type of success in the minors.

Stanton: 20 years old, was destroying hitting in the minors, barely over 100 ABs.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

"on the other hand 100% of the Islamic terrorists are Muslims." A f*cking congressman. smh.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 08:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
187. " "bentagain" will overlook this one: 3-4, sing, dub, trip, rbi"
In response to Reply # 0


          

run


HORRIBLE!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
julio14
Member since May 04th 2006
430 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 08:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
188. "cotDAMN he was hitting the ball hard tonight"
In response to Reply # 187


          

It was...relieving.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 09:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
189. "And to think, all those kids in Atlanta who believed in him...damn shame"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          


"Jack of all trades, master of none, though ofttimes better than master of one"-Anonymous

http://api.ning.com/files/ibhtJCHk2ouN7HlTkIP92YIUqu9EE4iiYCyAaPKxvpA_/cb_ein0011.jpg

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Jul-20-10 10:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
190. "And in the subplot Votto is 1-2 with a 3 run jack"
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 05:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
192. "I was scoreboard watching last night..."
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

...and can admit he had a good line last night, no doubt. That said, he's still hitting .257 and I would still vote for Starlin Castro, Gaby Sanchez, or Strasburg for R.O.Y.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 06:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
193. "You?!? Scoreboard watching instead of game watching?!? GET OUT OF HERE!"
In response to Reply # 192


          

Shocker, you don't actually watch games just boxscores?!? WHO'D HAVE THUNK IT!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 07:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
194. "This post has all kinds of long term potential at this point"
In response to Reply # 193
Wed Jul-21-10 07:36 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

I would have thought it would have died in a day or two

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 08:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
196. "RE: You?!? Scoreboard watching instead of game watching?!? GET OUT OF HE..."
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

I was watching the Phillies game. How I am going to watch the Braves game, I don't live in Atlanta. I checked/updated the score on-line since we're chasing the Braves

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 08:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
198. "two words: wild card"
In response to Reply # 196


          

When your third and 7 games out of the best record in the NL, you're not chasing the division, your chasing the wild card. Pay closer attention to the NL west and Cinci.

But have fun posting about Strasburg tonight, another game and player your not watching but banging a drum about.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 08:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
199. "RE: two words: wild card"
In response to Reply # 198


  

          

Get it in now, because you'll be on suicide watch in September. Last series of the season, may come down to Oct.3. Can't wait to see Billy Wagner give up a division winning walk-off

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 07:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
195. "Castro? Come on."
In response to Reply # 192


  

          

Castro

246 PA .295/.350/.418 (99 OPS+)
Slightly above average defense at SS
13 2B/4 3B/2 HR 24 R 26 RBI
+1 Baserunning Net Gain

Heyward

322 PA .257/.370/.456 (122 OPS+)
15 2B/3 3B/11 HR 45 R 46 RBI
According to John Dewan the best defensive RF in the game right now
+11 Baserunning Net Gain

The only thing Castro has over Heyward is that he plays a premium defensive position. That's it. Otherwise, Heyward makes less outs, hits for more power, runs better, and has played 30% more than Castro this year. They're both making impacts for first place teams.

The .40 points of batting average Heyward trails by is irrelevant when he's got .20 points of OBP and .40 points of SLG. That's just seething hate if you're going to try and put Castro over Heyward right now. At least Sanchez is close to Heyward in most categories.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 08:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
197. "RE: Castro? Come on."
In response to Reply # 195


  

          

Are we talking about the same guy. They both play for first place teams??? I'm talking about Starlin Castro, the Cubs SS. He has a rocket for an arm, is faster/will steal more bases than Heyward, and .40 higher BA is far from irrelevant, unless you have a biased viewpoint

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 09:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
200. "I apologize for that, I was doing two things at once and got mixed up"
In response to Reply # 197


  

          

>Are we talking about the same guy. They both play for first
>place teams???

.40 of batting average is irrelevant when Heyward still makes less outs and hits for more power.

Placido Polanco is about .20 points better than Ryan Howard on batting average. Has he been a better hitter than Ryan Howard this year? Of course not. Howard still makes less outs and hits with more power.

Castro has been up 246 times this year. He's gotten on base cleanly 35% of that time. He's accumulated 92 bases.

Heyward has been up 304 times this year. He's gotten on base cleanly 37% percent. He's accumulated 124 bases.

You're arguing speed? Is this a draft combine? Even if that is true, and I'm not sure it is Castro has fewer SB this year than Heyward. What's more, Heyward is flat out a better baserunner. Let's look at the breakdown:

Castro

1st to 3rd: 3 times out of a possible 8
2nd to Home: 4 times out of a possible 8
1st to Home: Once out of a possible 3
Is credit with haven taken 6 bases and not made a baserunning out

Heyward

1st to 3rd 7 times out of a possible 22
2nd to Home 6 times out of a possible 7
1st to Home 5 times out of a possible 6
Is credited with haven taken 12 bases and made one baserunning out

Jason Heyward has gone 1st to Home 5 times this year out of a possible 6 and you're trying to argue that Castro is better because he's faster? He sure has a funny way of showing it.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 09:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
201. "RE: I apologize for that, I was doing two things at once and got mixed u..."
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

You're really reaching trying to defend your guy, which I can appreciate. I don't know about all that shit you just said, but to add a counterpoint on the speed topic...

Starlin Castro has 4 SBs, CS 2 - Jason Heyward has 5 SBs, CS 4
Castro 13 2B Heyward 15 2B
Castro 4 3B Heyward 3 3B
Castro 65 Hits Heyward 70 Hits

Now take into account the fewer ABs Castro has, and I think his speed is more than evident. In 50 more ABs, Heyward only has 5 more hits and 2 2Bs. As for all that baserunning shit, that can be attributed to where they hit in their respective line-ups. Of course Heyward is going to score more runs, go 1st to 3rd, etc...he hits 3rd in the Braves line-up, Castro is 7th or 8th. I'm not going to argue power numbers, they are two different type of hitters/players...which are calculated into all that other shit SLUG and OPS, etc...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 09:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
202. "RE: I apologize for that, I was doing two things at once and got mixed u..."
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

>Now take into account the fewer ABs Castro has, and I think
>his speed is more than evident. In 50 more ABs, Heyward only
>has 5 more hits and 2 2Bs.

One reason he might not have more 2B or 3B is because he's hit 9 more HR.

>As for all that baserunning shit,
>that can be attributed to where they hit in their respective
>line-ups. Of course Heyward is going to score more runs, go
>1st to 3rd, etc...he hits 3rd in the Braves line-up, Castro is
>7th or 8th.

A majority of Heyward's PA's have come out of the 2 hole this year, but regardless there is some truth to that. That is why I listed the total chances and not just the number of times either player advanced. The point in listing that was to show that even if Castro is faster, it's not doing him or the Cubs a damn bit of good compared to what Heyward is doing on the bases for the Braves. Heyward's speed is having an impact at the top of the Braves line-up so far this year.

>I'm not going to argue power numbers, they are two
>different type of hitters/players...which are calculated into
>all that other shit SLUG and OPS, etc...

They are most certainly two different types of players. But Heyward has walked 43 times and gotten hit by 6 pitches. Castro has walked 20 times this year with 7 of those being intentional (6 came when he was in the 8th spot because he was hitting in front of the pitcher). He draws a walk a little over 5% of the time (compared to Heyward who's around 13%). Castro average on balls in play is .339 which is tough to maintain without a lot of power. I think he's got a lot of upside in the field but with the stick I think his ceiling is more Edgar Renteria. Fine player and potential All-Star (maybe even fan voted if he stays in Wrigley). Regardless both guys are young and less than 4 months into the season the matter is far from settled.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 09:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
203. "RE: I apologize for that, I was doing two things at once and got mixed u..."
In response to Reply # 202


  

          

Agreed...fair assessment.

I can't discredit Heyward's BBs, he's got a great eye. I heard a stroy of why he slipped a few spots in the draft. Some teams were reluctant to draft him because he wasn't swinging the bat. His power numbers are decent, but Castro is a nightmare on the basepads. Speed comparable to Juan Pierre. They both have the complete bag of tools, but I think Castro's speed will eventually be the counterpoint to Heyward's power...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-21-10 10:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
206. "7/21 Strasburg W, but can we be serious for a minute..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Jul-21-10 10:10 PM by bentagain

  

          

...if you honestly think Heyward is having a better season than Strasburg you have to admit that you haven't seen him pitch. He's throwing 98 from the first pitch. First 6-7 pitches are fastballs, and when he finally decides to throw a breaking ball (Phillips was already retired) Cabrera almost hits the dirt, like someone had a gun to his head. Dude is sick, 7 SOs, leads the league in SOs since being called up...

...if no-one can honestly make an argument for Heyward, I will let this post die...

...if someone comments after today, I will continue to give daily posts on every other rookie more deserving than Heyward, i.e. Garcia, Sanchez, Castro...

...I like what the Nats are doing with his IP and pitch count to avoid a Kerry Wood situation. He's going to be a force for some time to come. Ubaldo and Strasburg are the new Clemens and Gooden. Lincecum is almost an afterthought...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 07:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
208. "RE: 7/21 Strasburg W, but can we be serious for a minute..."
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

Nobody in this post ever argued Heyward was better than Strasburg.

>...I like what the Nats are doing with his IP and pitch count
>to avoid a Kerry Wood situation. He's going to be a force for
>some time to come. Ubaldo and Strasburg are the new Clemens
>and Gooden. Lincecum is almost an afterthought...

If Lincecum is an afterthought, you've got a very short memory. Even having a relative down year, he's still probably been one of the 10 best starters in the NL.

Considering Since June 1 Ubaldo has thrown 54 innings with a 5.67 ERA. 50 K/29 BB and teams have a .766 OPS it seems like you might be overvaluing his stuff or just making way too much out of a great two month stretch.

Josh Johnson meanwhile hasn't given up more than 2 runs in a start since May 8th. Adam Wainwright is still sub 2 as well.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 08:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
210. "fuck you and your stats..."
In response to Reply # 208
Sun Jul-25-10 08:40 AM by bentagain

  

          

it was more of a comment regarding that no-one is even talking about him with the emergence of these two guys, damn...

i'm making too much out of a two month stretch, hilarious. this from a guy counterpointing every post in defense of a ROOKIE hitting .251 and making the all-star team. WOW, i think you just played yourself.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 05:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
224. "RE: fuck you and your stats..."
In response to Reply # 210


  

          

>it was more of a comment regarding that no-one is even
>talking about him with the emergence of these two guys,
>damn...

That was not evident in the way you worded your comparison to Gooden & Clemens. I will apologize for not understanding that but it was a strangely worded comparison if that's what you meant. Strasburg is much more Mark Prior than anything right now.

>i'm making too much out of a two month stretch, hilarious.
>this from a guy counterpointing every post in defense of a
>ROOKIE hitting .251 and making the all-star team. WOW, i think
>you just played yourself.

I didn't say something like, "Jason Heyward is making Albert Pujols an after thought." All I've said throughout this whole post is that he's having a great season (historic for his age), is among the best rookies in the league and while he probably wasn't one of the 10 best NL outfielders in the first half of the season, I approve that the fans cared enough to vote him in. That's pretty much it.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 07:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
207. "Average has climbed 22 points in 9 games since coming back"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jul-25-10 07:08 AM by B9

          

Last ten, he's hitting .441 including .833 thus far in the series with the fish. Up to 8th in OBP at .385. He's made some amazing plays on the pads and in the field. If this form keeps up for the rest of the week and the Braves keep winning, well...July voting for ROM should be interesting.

Don't let this be confused as a "Heyward better than Strasburg/Garcia" debate; anyone who attempts that between a position player and a pitcher is an idiot anyway. But there were some pretty stupid fucking things said earlier in this post about Heyward, his injury and if it really mattered or not.


Well? Care to admit you were wrong?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 07:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
209. "He's locked in lately, been fun to watch"
In response to Reply # 207


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 08:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
211. "I'll admit he's put together some good games..."
In response to Reply # 209


  

          

But he's still hitting like .267 while guys like Castro are almost hitting for the cycle and Sanchez and Posey are still having better years to date than he is...since comparisons to Strasburg's season are "unfair" and might make you want to take your ball and go home...

I think your erection for Heyward has drained all the blood from your brain...

10 games = ROM in your sabermetric fantasy world

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 05:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
220. "RE: I'll admit he's put together some good games..."
In response to Reply # 211


  

          

>I think your erection for Heyward has drained all the blood
>from your brain...

I honestly don't even like him all that much but I somehow feel compelled to combat your campaign thus far to distort the fantastic year he is having.

>10 games = ROM in your sabermetric fantasy world

350 plate appearances and an .846 OPS so far.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 08:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
212. "@B9 and CIA have you even seen Strasburg pitch...."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jul-25-10 09:08 AM by bentagain

  

          

I've seen Ubaldo's 90mph slider for 2 years now. And I've watched Strasburg's televised starts. You can't sit through more than an inning without being blown away by this kids' stuff. It sounds to me like you haven't seen him pitch yet...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 05:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
221. "I'm a Nationals fan, I've seen every game he's pitched, 3 of them live"
In response to Reply # 212


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 07:16 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
225. "lol"
In response to Reply # 212


          

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Mon Aug-02-10 08:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
263. "I've seen him live more than you have"
In response to Reply # 212


          

Once, would have been a second time if he wasn't shelved last week while I was in DC. Nobody is denying Strasburg is good, only people with their heads in their ass are you for diminishing Heyward as if that some how elevates Strasburg.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 09:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
213. "7/25 Watching the Rockies reminded me of another guy..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jul-25-10 09:05 AM by bentagain

  

          

more deserving of an all-star selection than Heyward, Carlos Gonzalez

Buster Posey is hitting .358 and should get enough plate appearances to qualify for the hitting crown

Starlin Castro was a triple short of the cycle, and is now hitting.308 and has been moved to the top of the Cubs' lineup where he should be able to utilize his speed on the basepads

Gaby sanchez is 8th in the league in BA, hitting .305

Anybody have anything to say about Ryan Howard, yeah, didn't think so....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 11:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
214. "Surprised you can watch Heyward play from behind Strasburg's nut sack"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 11:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
215. "I see a theme in your posts..."
In response to Reply # 214


  

          

about Heyward banging my girl/mom = you must be watching/fantasizing about a grown man having sex

strasburg's nut sac = grown men's genitalia on your mind

maybe you should work out your sexuality issues somewhere other than this post

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 05:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
222. "Maybe you should read what you're posting"
In response to Reply # 215


  

          

This whole post is stupid. So you're butt hurt over your obviously favorite player not making the All Star team. Deal with it. It happens. Especially when said player only had 5 starts in the bigs before the game took place while the other was up in the bigs from the jump.

Plus you make it out like Heyward is a scrub. Many people have pointed out to you during the voting period Heyward was have a great rookie season. Then late in the process he gets a thumb injury and SURPRISE his numbers dip. Many have tried to reason with you on this but you just keep posting Heyward's daily numbers (when he has a BAD game that is) like it's making some kind of great point.

Listen, I know the recent Connecticut court decision that cheerleading isn't a sport means you cannot claim you played a sport in college anymore has you upset. You just need to step back, relax and enjoy. If both players stay healthy and continue to grow they will have many battles over the next 5 years. As a baseball fan this is all you can ask for.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 05:36 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
223. "And yet another homoerotic post from The Real..."
In response to Reply # 222


  

          

The strasburg analogy was made in reference to him not being selected because of his "inexperience", while in direct contrast heyward gets voted in based on a month and half of experience...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26424 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 03:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
216. "what exactly is your agenda?"
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

can you spell it out. is it anti-heyward? anti-howard? anti-black? that all star voters are stupid*?

pro-strasburg doesn't count. That's not an agenda.

so what the fuck is your agenda? cuz you clearly have one but i can't figure it out.

*if so, your agenda deserves a walleye post about observing other fans voting for all stars and weeping for society/being reminded that 50% of the country voted for John McCain and that democracy, at times, seems quite wanting as a means of selecting the best/brightest/most impressive individuals. In that, he'd be saying "no shit, dumbass" but you'd not realize it. It'd be awesome. Walleye, care to provide?

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

"on the other hand 100% of the Islamic terrorists are Muslims." A f*cking congressman. smh.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 03:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
217. "Wow, 216 posts later someone finally got..."
In response to Reply # 216


  

          

Don Pardo tell him what he's won...

No agenda at all, but if you read my OP I was trying to point out that the only reason a rookie hitting .251 got selected to the all-star game was because of the media attention and experts' predictions of this guy being the 2nd coming...

And I'm not saying he won't be, but as I've pointed out in subsequent posts there were other players whom were more deserving of fan appreciation than Heyward, who to his credit got off to a hot start for 1.5 months. And then went dormant, maybe it was due to an injury, but how can people go to the lengths they have to defend this guy. What is it based on. His career is 3 months in. Let him produce before you vote him the best OF in the game...

"Sportscenter I blame thee", no agenda, just an observation = you're all sheep

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 08:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
226. "what "lengths" have people really gone to in this post?"
In response to Reply # 217


  

          

they've said he was having a fantastic rookie season, and then he injured his thumb and it effected his ability to swing a bat the same way.

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 09:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
227. "RE: what "lengths" have people really gone to in this post?"
In response to Reply # 226


  

          

going to lengths = breaking the first half of his season into 2 halfs and then citing the first of the first half stats to rationalize fan voting and then equating the slumping second half of the first half stats to a thumb injury, as another poster put it i'm sure Willie Mays never played injured. Saying he is the 2nd coming of Hank Aaron because they got called up at the same age, with the same organization to play the outfield, and both had marginal rookie numbers. Failing to recognize that other veteran OF having better seasons had to be selected by Charlie Manuel, i.e. Matt Holliday. Using the not enough experience argument to rationalize Strasburg not being selected to the all-star team, but failing to realize that Heyward's .251 season at the break was his entire professional career. Refusing to admit the main reason fans voted for him to begin with was media coverage, i.e. sportscenter. Never, not one post, addressing the fact that as of today Heyward is not on the top 3 list of ROY candidates. Citing sabremetric stats.

And mix a Ryan Howard attack in the pot, who is now in the triple crown race, and you have going to lengths

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 09:36 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
228. "you're a fucking idiot."
In response to Reply # 227


          

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 09:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
229. "Basically but I was trying to be nicer about it"
In response to Reply # 228


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 07:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
230. "7/26 Strasburg starts v Braves tomorrow night..."
In response to Reply # 229


  

          

Any predictions? I'm going with 6IP, 0ER, 12SOs and an 0 for 4 for Heyward...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 04:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
218. "I'm living civic responsibility-free since 2000"
In response to Reply # 216


          

I treat voting like I treat recycling: it's something I tell my parents I always do, and occasionally actually do. So I'm struggling with your analogy a bit. The wisdom in soliciting as much "information" as possible in the All-Star voting actually seems like a pretty good idea to me. I'm sure I've shared this stupid anecdote before and have since forgotten because a 1:05 rain delay in the Twins games means sixty five extra drinking minutes, but one of my formative educational experiences was my calculus professor (the esteemed Stan Wagon, inventor of the square-wheeled tricycle) telling me that anything worth doing is worth doing badly. It taught me the value of being wrong, often and badly. It's not an end in itself, but it means you've put a piece of yourself into the world for fraternal correction, which in turn means that you're open to learning more.

So when baseball's own rite of civic responsibility comes around* it seems not only just, but prudent that our Selig-ian overlords would say, "Vote! Vote early! Vote often! Vote frequently enough that you forget to un-check the box authorizing MLB.com special offers!". It even has the indirect appearance of genuine participation in relevant baseball processes since the be-fuckled keepers of the Hall of Fame use things like all-star appearances to unfairly exclude Bert Blyleven#. We're part of the process and, in a twist that Stan Wagon can appreciate, our being wrong in dull-witted compliance to our opinion-crafting overlords at Baseball Tonight is part of the process too. Jason Heyward isn't just an All-Star because he's a twenty year old with a 128 OPS+. He's an All-Star because all of us, including the Red-Pill-taking few that have nobly and forcibly liberated their minds from the slow flood of Jason Heyward propaganda, have been permitted to furiously ejaculate our wisdom into the public square of opinions. Like Diogenes. Only with metaphorical masturbating and not real masturbating.

Remember Bob Hamelin? He won the 1994 Rookie of the Year over Manny Ramirez. Frequently, people will point to Hamelin's win as a sign of yet another vast BBWAA screw-up, but the deceptively simple fact is that both men qualified as rookies and Hamelin actually had a better year, posting a .282/.388/.599 line. There's something that is both beautiful and fair about Hamelin winning the award (which he deserved) and people complaining about the result a decade and a half later because any idiot could see, even at the time, that a 22 year old tearing the league a new one was a better player than a 26 year old AAAA guy putting together a nice, single campaign. Every prophet in his place.

I think Jason Heyward is a swell player. He draws walks, hits for good pop, and has since improved on the apparently crucial ability to hit singles since his all-star selection. If a twenty year old like that played for the Twins, you couldn't get me to shut the fuck up about it. And I'd much rather have watched him in Anaheim than actually sit through a Braves/Marlins matchup now that my Marlins-to-World-Series prediction has crashed into an iceberg.

That isn't necessarily a bunch of lock-down qualifications, but I'm still putting my faith in the millions of people who think I'm wrong. It's almost exactly like using facts, except that everybody gets to feel like they're important. Seems perfect to me. Sure, there was a pretty extensive media drive behind Heyward, but this guy on the CSN-Oakland broadcast just uttered the phrase "Konerko on the move" and we've all managed to survive that piece of obvious bullshit with our skulls intact.

*and this is an analogy I do believe is apt since it's a nice complement to bitching impotently about award recipients in October - unless they're 2009 AL MVP Joe Mauer.

#Ranked 5th all-time in baseball's strikeout list, but first in our hearts, with the exception of noted humanitarian and Robin Ventura ass-stomper, Nolan Ryan.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Jul-25-10 04:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
219. "Good luck catching the sox..."
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

I'm glad at least 2 people can understand what I'm trying to say...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 07:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
231. "RE: I'm living civic responsibility-free since 2000"
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

It even has the indirect appearance of genuine participation in relevant baseball processes since the be-fuckled keepers of the Hall of Fame use things like all-star appearances to unfairly exclude Bert Blyleven#...

That's a good point that never occurred to me. The voters for the HOF actually consider all-star selections, and this 20yr. old rookie having half of a good first half gets fan selected. I feel validated in my WTF assessment...Thanks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26424 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 11:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
234. "many thanks."
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

even if i did pick the wrong direction to expect you to go in, that had me laugh out loud on three separate occasions.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

"on the other hand 100% of the Islamic terrorists are Muslims." A f*cking congressman. smh.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 09:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
233. "He's listed at 6'5""
In response to Reply # 0


          

Do we believe that? He seems taller.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 07:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
235. "7/28 No Strasburg, Heyward still an 0-3 with 2 SOs..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to give you more insight into my issue with the hype surrounding Heyward, I had read an article about the upcoming matchup of the 2 rookies and the comparison was made of Bob Feller v Joe Dimaggio whom faced off in their respective rookie campaigns. So that would make Heyward the Dimaggio in this equation? Well Joe D hit .323 his rookie year. Heyward has improved his average to .273 with a hot week after the all-star break. References such as these and others such as the "Jay-hey kid" aren't warranted by his performance to date. As previously stated there are veteran outfielders who are more deserving (having a better season) of an all-star selection (fan-voted or otherwise) than a rookie hitting .251 at the break...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 08:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
236. "Hey idiot"
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

Why do you think Heyward is hitting well after the break? Here is a hint, it has to do with his thumb.

Also you act like hitting .273 as a 19 year-old rookie is something to sneeze at. Bating averages are down this year across the board in MLB, especially in the NL. He's good. Get over it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 10:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
237. "RE: Hey idiot"
In response to Reply # 236


  

          

Hitting well after the break = 2 weeks, give it time, I feel a slump coming on...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 10:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
240. "I don't understand your obsession with batting average"
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

>to give you more insight into my issue with the hype
>surrounding Heyward, I had read an article about the upcoming
>matchup of the 2 rookies and the comparison was made of Bob
>Feller v Joe Dimaggio whom faced off in their respective
>rookie campaigns. So that would make Heyward the Dimaggio in
>this equation? Well Joe D hit .323 his rookie year. Heyward
>has improved his average to .273 with a hot week after the
>all-star break. References such as these and others such as
>the "Jay-hey kid" aren't warranted by his performance to date.
>As previously stated there are veteran outfielders who are
>more deserving (having a better season) of an all-star
>selection (fan-voted or otherwise) than a rookie hitting .251
>at the break...

Joe DiMaggio hit .323 his rookie year...and he still got on base less than Jason Heyward whose .385 OBP is leading all rookies by a wide margin. That number is good for 7th in the NL.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 10:25 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
241. "stop using sabermetric excuses."
In response to Reply # 240


          

clearly OPS and the like are arguments for the defeated Heyward apologist.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 10:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
242. "I'm not busting out WARP3 here, it's On Base Percentage"
In response to Reply # 241


  

          

There are many ways to evaluate players.

He's a legitimate Gold Glove candidate in the OF this year. He's an excellent baserunner. I mean, bentagain has conceeded that he has has a fantastic eye.

But everytime there's a negative post about him it's pretty much about batting average.

I think if I were making it a point to hate on Jason Heyward I would talk about that while he seems to be hitting singles on a fairly regular basis, he has 0 HRs in 50 PA post All-Star break. He's hit 1 HR since May 29th. Omar Vizquel has 1 HR past May 29th.

But we get the same schtick about batting average. And now that it's crept back up into respectability he's hedging bets that he can't hold around where he is now.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 10:54 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
243. "schtick? next you'll tell me RBI totals have more to do"
In response to Reply # 242


          

with runners on base than the actual individual ability to create scoring chances. for the sake of the OP's mental capacity, we must not delve beyond statistical categories recorded by NES Baseball Stars.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 01:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
245. "Phillies call-up Dominic Brown after Victorino injury..."
In response to Reply # 235


  

          

Now Heyward isn't even the best Rookie playing right field. Guess I should start the 2011 all-star voting for Dominic Brown today...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 01:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
246. "RE: Phillies call-up Dominic Brown after Victorino injury..."
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

Considering how averse you have tried to maintain up to this point about anointing players based on soley on reputation, I consider this to be your finest moment in this post.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 10:13 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
238. "LOL I can't believe ya'll keep responding to this clown..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 10:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
239. "RE: LOL I can't believe ya'll keep responding to this clown..."
In response to Reply # 238


  

          

I told them not to and I would let the post die, so be prepared for updates for the rest of the season...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26424 posts
Wed Jul-28-10 11:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
244. "why should we listen to the dumbest person in the post?"
In response to Reply # 239


  

          


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

"on the other hand 100% of the Islamic terrorists are Muslims." A f*cking congressman. smh.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Jul-29-10 08:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
247. "7/29 DomDay bitches..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The debut of Dominic Brown = 2-3, 2rbis, 2 runs (once scoring from 1st on a Ruiz double)
Buster Posey and Starlin Castro are still en fuego and Gaby Sanchez is still ahead of Heyward for ROY honors as far as position players are concerned...
Add Jaime Garcia and Mike Leake to that list as well...
Strasburg is probably shutting it down for the rest of the season as the Nats are 15 games out, but that's our loss..
Oh yeah, Heyward stole home, nice...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Jul-30-10 07:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
248. "7/30 Another 0 for 3 for Heyward..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

as the Braves' lead in the NL east continues to evaporate. He did have a BB which gets you guys all wet, while his BA seems to be stuck around .270...

In other news the St. Louis Cardinals' Jon Jay has officially thrown his hat into the ring and is currently hitting .380something. Although he's only slightly over 100ABs, he should be over 300ABs by the end of the season. But that evens things out since the Nats are in all probability shutting down Strasburg by putting him on the DL.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

dEs
Member since Sep 01st 2006
34879 posts
Fri Jul-30-10 09:48 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
249. "7/30 3 hits including a game-winning double. be mad. nm"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

_____

shann.email/inbox.pls.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Sat Jul-31-10 08:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
250. "Sees Heyward leading his team in a tight NL East"
In response to Reply # 249


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 08:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
259. "8/1 The weekend wrap-up..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Friday night the Jay-hey kid hit a walk-off double to defeat the
Reds in extra innings, well done sir...

Saturday night he followed up his walk-off performance by striking out in the same situation, while going O for 5, another O for...

Sunday's performance featured a double in a 1 for 4 night at the plate, way to avoid another 0 for rook...

Heyward is presently at .270 on the season and losing traction in the ROY race...

While Rookies Jon Jay and Buster Posey continue to lead the league in hitting, although Jon Jay won't get enough ABs to be considered for the hitting title he's having an incredible year so far...
Chris Johnson, rookie 3b for Houston, is also hitting at a clip well above .300 and will be a regular staple at 3rd after Houston's recent fire sale...
Starling Castro cooled off a little this weekend after pushing his BA to .311 after last weeks' incredible performance...
Gaby Sanchez, Tyler Colvin, Ike Davis are still putting up solid numbers for Hrs and RBIs...
Jaime Garcia and Mike Leake did not add to their win totals, but their teams remain in close pennant races, and will rely on their arms down the stretch...
I think that puts Heyward like 8th or something in my official unofficial ROY race 10'...
Strasburg is looming...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 09:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
260. "your obsession with batting average is awesome"
In response to Reply # 259


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Aug-01-10 10:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
262. "RE: 8/1 The weekend wrap-up..."
In response to Reply # 259
Sun Aug-01-10 10:06 PM by Call It Anything

  

          

>Saturday night he followed up his walk-off performance by
>striking out in the same situation, while going O for 5,
>another O for...

And in that same game he went 1st the 3rd on a groundball through the left side and then scored. He also threw Cabrera out at the plate in the first inning. Then he threw out Scott Rolen in the bottom of the 8th inning.

The perfect one hop throw in the first inning in case you didn't see it:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10458917


>Sunday's performance featured a double in a 1 for 4 night at
>the plate, way to avoid another 0 for rook...

Of course you forgot to mention the walk. He got on base twice in five plate apperances. A .400 OBP puts you on an inside track to the HOF.

>I think that puts Heyward like 8th or something in my official
>unofficial ROY race 10'...
>Strasburg is looming...

I still have him at 2nd behind Garcia. Posey has definitely closed the gap and could overtake him in the next month or so depending how things progress.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Aug-02-10 09:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
266. "RE: 8/1 The weekend wrap-up..."
In response to Reply # 262


  

          

2nd in the ROY race, you're delusional

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Mon Aug-02-10 09:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
267. "RE: 8/1 The weekend wrap-up..."
In response to Reply # 266


  

          

>2nd in the ROY race, you're delusional

And you have proven incapable of articulating any argument that doesn't involve batting average.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Aug-02-10 09:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
268. "RE: 8/1 The weekend wrap-up..."
In response to Reply # 267


  

          

I would think there wouldn't bean argument against .378 and .355

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Mon Aug-02-10 09:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
269. "222 vs 378"
In response to Reply # 268


          

There's your argument.

I think if you just admitted you hate Jason Heyward (for some reason, I think racial based on that horrendous train wreck of a thread you started) and that you don't actually watch baseball, you may be able to save some face in this horrible 2nd grade stat war you are attempting to wage.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Mon Aug-02-10 10:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
270. "RE: 8/1 The weekend wrap-up..."
In response to Reply # 268
Mon Aug-02-10 10:13 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

-One of, and arguably, the best RF in baseball this year
-Currently the 6th best Baserunning Gain in MLB
-Top 10 in the NL in OBP
-Leads all qualified NL rookies in OPS and OPS+
-First among all rookies in WAR on Fangraphs and second behind Jaime Garcia on BB-Ref.

I wouldn't think that all of these things would be obliterated by H/AB.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Mon Aug-02-10 08:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
264. "You don't actually watch baseball, do you?"
In response to Reply # 259


          

And confirm for me: You are BShelly's horrible alias?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Aug-03-10 07:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
271. "8/2 Another O for for Heyward...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but he did get another BB, which I know get you all wet. BA now down to .268, maybe he hurt his thumb again...

Not much other action on the ROY front. The cubs got killed, but Starlin Castro went 2 for 4 and Tyler Colvin managed to get a hit...

Spoiler Alert: Mike Leake pitches against the Pirates tonight, maybe another no hitter for the year of the pitcher...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Tue Aug-03-10 07:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
272. "Fun Fact: Through 88 rookie games, he has 20 more walks"
In response to Reply # 271


          

than Ryan Howard did his first full season.

Wow!



Nice way to also avoid who he was facing and also that, most importantly, his team still won.


But keep this horrible agenda going, your motivations for it are comical. How did Strasburg do last night?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 08:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
273. "8/3 The rook gets a hit, avoids another O for..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Aug-04-10 08:54 AM by bentagain

  

          

but more importantly he got another BB, which is more important and keeps CIA and B9 moist. BA = .268

In other news...

Mike Leake and Jaime Garcia got shelled and may be hitting the proverbial rookie wall, but never fear, Strasburg is readying himself for a start next Tuesday against the fish...

While Buster Posey continues to devour NL pitching, going 3 for 5 with 2RBIs a run scored, and the ever important BB. BA = .356

Starlin Castro looks to be heating up again going 2 for 4, with an RBI, run scored, and don't forget the ever important BB. BA = .309

And newly entered contestant into my ROY 10' race (I'm better than Jason Heyward) Astros 3B Chris Johnson went 2 for 3 with 2 RBIs and 2 runs scored, however he failed to draw the ever important BB, so all is for not. BA = .350

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26424 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 09:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
274. "Starlin also fell on the basepath and basically lost the game"
In response to Reply # 273


  

          

for the cubs. what, no mention of that?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 09:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
275. "(psst: he doesn't watch the games or understand stats)"
In response to Reply # 274


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 09:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
276. "When you bat second, OPS is sort of important"
In response to Reply # 273


          

but hey, one day you'll understand baseball and that little fact.


how about another watch candidate for your arbitrary stat-ROY?

He's 3-0 with a 1.17 ERA in 48 games and 54 innings. He has 56 strikeouts and averages 9.3 per 9 and 2.3 SO/BB. Against him, batters are hitting .173 with a .216 SLG. His SB% is only 33% which is 45 points better than the league average.


CAN YOU NAME THIS STAT MONSTER ROOKIE OF THE YEAR CANDIDATE?


(you should love him, he's white)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 09:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
277. "RE: When you bat second, OPS is sort of important"
In response to Reply # 276


  

          

venters? of fetters? whatever his name is, the middle reliever for the braves? so that makes heyward like 9th or 10th on my list in the ROY 10' (I'm better than Jayson Heyward) race, thanks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 09:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
278. "He is white, of course he has to leap Heyward"
In response to Reply # 277


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 09:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
281. "Pulling the race card, WOW..."
In response to Reply # 278


  

          

I guess desperate times call for desperate measures. So Jaime Garcia, Starlin Castro, and Gaby Sanchez are white guys. And my earlier posts defending Ryan Howard, whom I believe is black, make me racist as well. Or maybe it was the earlier post about Dominic Brown now being the best rookie in RF that makes me racist...

Your boy is over-rated, not even close to being considered an all-star, at least this year. But since your a Braves' fan, hey there's always next year...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 09:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
280. "okay, name 8 or 9 other rookies having better seasons than Heyward"
In response to Reply # 277


  

          


Ready go

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:00 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
282. "RE: okay, name 8 or 9 other rookies having better seasons than Heyward"
In response to Reply # 280


  

          

May I redirect you attention to post #259. Read the posts before you jump into an argument. And now you can add Johnny Venters and Chris Johnson to that list

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
283. "Just stop posting about baseball"
In response to Reply # 282


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
287. "Two players you didn't know existed before being told about in this post"
In response to Reply # 282


          

I'd call you a fool, but I think that ground has already been covered.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
289. "RE: Two players you didn't know existed before being told about in this ..."
In response to Reply # 287


  

          

Maybe if they had cool nicknames like the Jay-Hey kid, or were being compared to Hank Aaron, before ever playing a game I might have heard about them in spring training too...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
292. "You know who first compared him to Hank Aaron? Hank Aaron"
In response to Reply # 289


          

Want to ride out on him or try to make a case against him being a relevant source of opinion? This post does have room to grow into more of a one-man jack ass show, you can take it there. But since you don't understand REAL baseball or REAL LIFE talent, lets look at your friend and only crutch: stats.

Hank Aaron was a 20 year old rookie too.
He hit .280 with 69 RBIs and 13 Hrs, with an OBP of .322 in 468 ABs and 122 games.


Do you want me to finish the other half of this comparison?



  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 11:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
293. "RE: You know who first compared him to Hank Aaron? Hank Aaron"
In response to Reply # 292
Wed Aug-04-10 11:03 AM by bentagain

  

          

You're defeating yourself with your own argument. Hank Aaron wasn't even Hammering Hank Aaron in his rookie year. He had a marginal rookie campaign, wait, there it is again, Deja Vu?, oh yeah, I already said that. A previous post already pointed out the similarities. So let me get this right, any 20 year old rookie outfielder who puts up average (at best) to below average stats is going to turn into Hank Aaron. GTFOOH. might be a little premature with your comparison, how about waiting a while. maybe after his career could a comparison even be thought of, maybe. You insult the homerun king, but I'm a baseball moron? right

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 11:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
294. "Since your new failed stich is the ROY race, who won in Hanks class?"
In response to Reply # 293
Wed Aug-04-10 11:10 AM by B9

          

(gives you time to run to br and come up with a new plea)


And again, even though you are horrific at reading: Hank Aaron compared Jason Heyward to himself first.

So yeah, spit that nonsense at Hank.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 11:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
295. "RE: Since your new failed stich is the ROY race, who won in Hanks class?"
In response to Reply # 294


  

          

so if he doesn't win ROY then he's going to be Hank Aaron???

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 11:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
296. "No, just that your hate is misplaced, overly-stat based, and wrong"
In response to Reply # 295


          

But, again, we've covered that ground here before.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 11:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
297. "RE: Since your new failed stich is the ROY race, who won in Hanks class?"
In response to Reply # 294
Wed Aug-04-10 11:28 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

I mean just on the surface you've got:

20 year-old, exciting, black RF playing for the Braves with some pop. I think it takes restraint not to say Hank Aaron. After Heyward goes off in the first two months and they bring out Hank Aaron to throw the first pitch with Heyward, it's pretty hard not to link the two.

I mean objectively, right now his best comp is probably a right-handed version of Curt Blefary, but outside of Orioles fans older than 50, who really gives a fuck about Curt Blefary? Just doesn't capture the imagination in the same way.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 06:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
299. "RE: Since your new failed stich is the ROY race, who won in Hanks class?"
In response to Reply # 294


  

          

Post a link of Hank Aaron comparing his GAME to Jayson Heyward's. I found links where he compares the lack of prominent black athletes in today's game to the civil rights era. I find quotes where Hank is looking for Heyward to be an ambassador to african-american youth in an attempt to gain more interest in baseball. Didn't find any quotes where Hank is comparing their games...

I found a lot of articles from the media doing that, USA Today, etc...
I found an article quoting Bobby Cox comparing their games...
I even found an article about fans giving Heyward a standing ovation on opening day, chanting his name, before he even took the field...

No quotes about Hank saying something like that, so if you could post the quote that would be helpful, thanks ahead of time...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 07:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
305. "RE: Since your new failed stich is the ROY race, who won in Hanks class?"
In response to Reply # 299


  

          

still waiting...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 09:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
279. "I'm assuming that this is just brilliant schtick at this point but..."
In response to Reply # 273
Wed Aug-04-10 09:58 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

Yes, another night in which Jason Heyward came to the plate 5 times and reached base twice. Does it really matter that one of those was by BB instead of a single? The level of obstuseness at this point makes me feel like you're just doing this for amusement, in which case I'm in no position to tell you how to get your kicks.

You made this post. Probably just posted stream of conciousness. Saw the numbers and couldn't believe that Heyward was an All-Star. By your own admission early in the post, you'd only seen him a couple of times in Spring Training.

Maybe you didn't realize how all-stars were selected. You seem to beat against the shores that Strasburg wasn't selected but Heyward was, even though the two things have absolutely nothing to do with each other because they are selected by different groups and based off of different things.

Obviously it created a lot of backlash. If you were trolling and that was what you set out to do, congratulations. Or maybe you didn't understand the way baseball players are evaluated beyond AVG/HR/RBI, maybe you didn't care.

I'm going to try and explain this on the off-chance that you really don't know why OBP is a better tool than batting average.

Look at it this way:

This year Marlon Byrd is hitting .316
This year Jason Heyward is hitting .268

Based on the analysis that you've displayed thus far in this post, I expect you to annoint Marlon Byrd the winner by fatality. But...

What this is saying is that at their present rate, if Marlon Byrd and Jason Heyward were to have 1000 ABs this year, we would expect Byrd to register 50 more base hits. The rest of the time that they put the ball in play we would expect them to make an out.

But, a base hit is not the only way in which a batter can cleanly reach base and an at-bat is not the only time that a player comes to the plate. Walks and HBPs also get guys on and when they do that, it's not counted as an AB. Little League coaches used to say, "A walk's as good as a hit". While the maxim is not entirely true as a hit could be an extra base hit and a single has the ability to move runners an extra base, we'll give them the benefit of the doubt that it might have been long-winded to say, "A walk is much, much better than an out and nearly equivalent to a single in most circumstances." So when we include walks and HBP this year, we can find out how often Byrd and Heyward have come up to the plate and not made an out.

Marlon Byrd - .378
Jason Heyward - .382

What this is saying is that their present rate, if Marlon Byrd and Jason Heyward were to step into the batters box 1000 times, we would expect Jason Heyward to reach base by hit, walk, or HBP 4 more times than Marlon Byrd.

So even though Marlon would be expected to have more base hits than Jason Heyward, he would still not reach base as often and make more outs.

So, there's the argument I would expect you to make based on your posts to date:

"Marlon Byrd is a better player than Jason Heyward because he's 3rd in the NL in batting average and hitting .316. Damn near 50 points better than Jason Heyward's .268"

But what you're really saying is this:

"Marlon Byrd has stepped into the batters box 431 times this year. 40 of those times he successfully reached first by BB/HBP, but let's not count those because that's dumb. Those 40 times were in official games against real pitchers, but still, who cares? Now out of those 390 or so times that we're going to say matter, he got a base hit 123 times. So while he's come up 431 times and gotten himself out 62.2% of the time, what we really want to look at are those times that I think mattered more because some cricket fan in the 19th century thought so."

Meanwhile what I'm saying is this:

"Jason Heyward has come up 387 times this year and gotten on base 148 times. Marlon Byrd has come up 431 times this year and gotten on base 163 times. Jason Heyward has been better at not making outs than Marlon Byrd."

So if you ignore about 10-15% of the time that they come up, Marlon Byrd is probably better than Jason Heyward at not makings outs this year. But why would you ignore 10-15% of the time that they come up? If you look at every time they come up, Jason Heyward is a little better. That's why his lower batting average is less important because he finds other ways to not make outs. He's one of the best at not making outs in the league. That's one of several reasons he's a good player and one of several reasons why people in this post laugh to themselves when you continue to post batting averages.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
284. "RE: I'm assuming that this is just brilliant schtick at this point but....."
In response to Reply # 279


  

          

First of all, the Strasburg comments were made in reference to the opinion that he was too inexperienced to be in the all-star game, when in direct contrast you have Heyward who got selected because he got off to a good start in a rookie year, and then went into a slump and visited the DL before the break. But he had enough experience??? I believe I said this already, but people just wanted to argue stats and names...

Second of all, what else could be you argument for Heyward. Yeah, I know he's been in the top 10 for on base percentage due to his high amount of walks, which I also previously conceded was the strength of his game. However, I'm not going to also say what a great OPS his has, and every other stat that OBP is factored into. He gets on base, I got it. But that doesn't counter the point that other outfielders were more deserving of an all-star selection over a rookie hitting .251 at the break, but I believe I already said that as well...

Finally, I never intended on researching rookie stats, but when I did, I found about 10 other rookies who are deserving of the same media attention being given to Heyward, and I would think someone who watches baseball would be able to admit there are at least 5 other rookies having a better season than he is to date...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
285. "RE: I'm assuming that this is just brilliant schtick at this point but....."
In response to Reply # 284
Wed Aug-04-10 10:21 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

>First of all, the Strasburg comments were made in reference
>to the opinion that he was too inexperienced to be in the
>all-star game, when in direct contrast you have Heyward who
>got selected because he got off to a good start in a rookie
>year, and then went into a slump and visited the DL before the
>break. But he had enough experience??? I believe I said this
>already, but people just wanted to argue stats and names...

If Heyward were selected by the manager or Strasburg able to be voted in by the fans, this would be 100% valid. As it stands, it is irrelevant.

>Second of all, what else could be you argument for Heyward.
>Yeah, I know he's been in the top 10 for on base percentage
>due to his high amount of walks, which I also previously
>conceded was the strength of his game. However, I'm not going
>to also say what a great OPS his has, and every other stat
>that OBP is factored into. He gets on base, I got it. But that
>doesn't counter the point that other outfielders were more
>deserving of an all-star selection over a rookie hitting .251
>at the break, but I believe I already said that as well...

Deserving is irrelevant in this context because the fans vote for who they like. Some fans probably look at statistics, and if you did, it would be hard to cast a vote in late June for Jason Heyward. But most fans do not. They vote for players that excite them. Based on his age, how he plays the game, and his media exposure, many fans thought he was exciting and wanted to see more of him. Part of your argument early on was that he didn't deserve the exposure that he got. But it would be hard to imagine Heyward playing any better in April and May than he did. Now that we're in August, the media has moved on. He cooled off a little. In June they started going crazy over Strasburg. That has cooled off, but he is still getting plenty of run. Who knows what they'll talk about next month. That's what the media does.

>Finally, I never intended on researching rookie stats, but
>when I did, I found about 10 other rookies who are deserving
>of the same media attention being given to Heyward, and I
>would think someone who watches baseball would be able to
>admit there are at least 5 other rookies having a better
>season than he is to date...

But when you try to articulate the reasons why they are having a better season 90% of what you relate it to is Heyward's batting average. You don't really even seem to care about playing time as Chris Johnson has played less than 40% of the amount of time that Jason Heyward has.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
286. "RE: I'm assuming that this is just brilliant schtick at this point but....."
In response to Reply # 285


  

          

They vote for players that excite them. Based on his age, how he plays the game, and his media exposure, many fans thought he was exciting and wanted to see more of him.

MEDIA EXPOSURE, DAMN, THAT'S ALL I SAID FROM THE OPENING POST, WELCOME BACK TO EARTH "Sportscenter, I blame thee"


But when you try to articulate the reasons why they are having a better season 90% of what you relate it to is Heyward's batting average. You don't really even seem to care about playing time as Chris Johnson has played less than 40% of the amount of time that Jason Heyward has.

LIKE I STATED EARLIER, ITS HARD TO ARGUE WITH .385 AND .358, AND I JUST PUT CHRIS JOHNSON INTO THE NOW OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL ROY 10' (I'M BETTER THAN JAYSON HEYWARD) RACE like 2 days ago. He's got playing time in like 40 something games this year, and will probably be at 3b for the remainder of the season after the Astros' recent fire sale, damn that sounds familiar, oh yeath that's because I already said that too.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
288. "RE: I'm assuming that this is just brilliant schtick at this point but....."
In response to Reply # 286


  

          

>They vote for players that excite them. Based on his age, how
>he plays the game, and his media exposure, many fans thought
>he was exciting and wanted to see more of him.
>
>MEDIA EXPOSURE, DAMN, THAT'S ALL I SAID FROM THE OPENING POST,
>WELCOME BACK TO EARTH "Sportscenter, I blame thee"

That's all you said in the opening post but around post 125 and there after this became a crusade on your part to disprove the merits of Jason Heyward. That's the core of a majority of all of the posts in the last 3 weeks.

>But when you try to articulate the reasons why they are having
>a better season 90% of what you relate it to is Heyward's
>batting average. You don't really even seem to care about
>playing time as Chris Johnson has played less than 40% of the
>amount of time that Jason Heyward has.
>
>LIKE I STATED EARLIER, ITS HARD TO ARGUE WITH .385 AND .358,
>AND I JUST PUT CHRIS JOHNSON INTO THE NOW OFFICIALLY
>UNOFFICIAL ROY 10' (I'M BETTER THAN JAYSON HEYWARD) RACE like
>2 days ago. He's got playing time in like 40 something games
>this year, and will probably be at 3b for the remainder of the
>season after the Astros' recent fire sale, damn that sounds
>familiar, oh yeath that's because I already said that too.

In post 259 you list 9 other rookies:

Jonn Jay (138 PA, or 35.6% of Heyward's)
Buster Posey (228 PA or 60.3% of Heyward's)
Chris Johnson (149 PA or 39.4% of Heyward's)
Starlin Castro (300 PA or 79.3% of Heyward's)
Gaby Sanchez (428 PA or 113.2% of Heyward's)
Tyler Colvin (278 PA or 71.8% of Heyward's)
Ike Davis (386 PA or 99.7% of Heyward's)
Jaime Garcia (Pitcher)
Mike Leake (Pitcher)

Then you pronounce Heyward something like 8th in your ROY race. Using context, you put Jon Jay or Chris Johnson ahead of Jason Heyward. It didn't read like you projected them ahead, it sounded like at the moment of posting, you thought they were having a better year.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26424 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
290. "at 40 games, Jason Heyward was batting .290 with an OPS > 900"
In response to Reply # 288


  

          

with 11 HRs.

let's see if these other cats can keep any sort of pace, with or without injury.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

"on the other hand 100% of the Islamic terrorists are Muslims." A f*cking congressman. smh.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
291. "I brought that up in earlier posts but it didn't merit a response"
In response to Reply # 290
Wed Aug-04-10 11:22 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

Personally, I'm probably more impressed with .835 OPS through 400 PA than .988 through 200. Especially the way that Heyward is compiling it. Hell, Jeff Francouer has a 1.001 OPS in his first 200 PA. It's looking like 50/50 that he'll be out of baseball in 2012 right now.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 07:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
306. "RE: at 40 games, Jason Heyward was batting .290 with an OPS > 900"
In response to Reply # 290


  

          

he still has 11 HRs...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 12:17 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
298. "Call It Anything's stream of posts in here = 5% knowledege"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


WOW

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Bombastic
Charter member
88874 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 06:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
300. "http://gifplace.com/files/300_legchop.gif"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://gifplace.com/files/300_legchop.gif

https://soundcloud.com/matt-koelling-666011203

www.somethinginthewudder.com

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus

https://www.facebook.com/matt.koelling.96

https://www.instagram.com/something_in_the_wudder/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-koelling-438a80

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 07:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
301. "Haha, that was great"
In response to Reply # 300


  

          

It took me a second though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 09:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
302. "8/4 Another O for for the rook..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

going O for 5, with no BB. tough one. maybe they put too much starch in his uniform, or he slept on the wrong side of the bed, whatever, BA = .264. but since an O for 5 and BA of .264 requires more in depth analysis (I just figured that would have painted the picture), here's Heyward's play-by-play for the game...
J Heyward grounded into double play, shortstop to first, O Infante out at second.
J Heyward grounded out to second.
J Heyward grounded out to shortstop, M Dunn to third
J Heyward grounded into fielder's choice to first, M Cabrera to third, O Infante safe at second on error by first baseman I Davis.
J Heyward grounded out to first.
Now I'm sure I missed some miraculous play in the outfield, or some incredible baserunning, but I just figured O for 5 BA = .264 summed it up...
but just in case
Last 7 days 7G 28AB 2R 6H 0HR 2RBI .214BA

While Starlin Castro had a monster game as the Cubs destroyed the Brewers going 4 for 5 and scoring 2R, BA = .318, do you need a play-by-play or stats over the last 7 days to know he's getting hot? Tyler Colvin had a solo HR and Chris Johnson had a 2R HR while going 1 for 3 with a BB and BA = .350. Buster Posey post to follow...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Aug-04-10 10:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
303. "Nope, that looks like an ugly game"
In response to Reply # 302


  

          

I didn't watch it, but making 6 outs in 5 trips to the plate is about as bad as you can get. August has not been kind to him through 4 days. Going .356/.457/.458 in July helps though. Things have a way of evening out in baseball. In the end, all you can really do is bet on talent.

I appreciate that you seem to be expanding your approach, even if you seem to be doing it with contempt. If nothing else you've picked up on a few things along the way so maybe something good has come out of this post.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 07:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
304. "Tell the whole story..."
In response to Reply # 303
Thu Aug-05-10 07:38 AM by bentagain

  

          

Jonn Jay (138 PA, or 35.6% of Heyward's)= half as many hits in 210 less ABs
Buster Posey (228 PA or 60.3% of Heyward's)= 12 less hits in 120 less ABs
Chris Johnson (149 PA or 39.4% of Heyward's)= half as many hits in 200 less ABs
Starlin Castro (300 PA or 79.3% of Heyward's)= 1 more hit for Castro and 10 more 2Bs in 60 less ABs
Gaby Sanchez (428 PA or 113.2% of Heyward's)= .295 BA in 60 more ABs
Tyler Colvin (278 PA or 71.8% of Heyward's)= 6 more HRs in 90 less ABs
Ike Davis (386 PA or 99.7% of Heyward's)= amazingly similar stats with the exception of BBs and the underwhelming media hype

Mike Stanton has now been entered into the officially unofficial ROY 10' (I'm better than Jason Heyward) race with 1 less HR in half as many ABs

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 10:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
315. "I like how you use hits whenever possible"
In response to Reply # 304


  

          

You keep using hits and batting average. I tried to explain this yesterday but clearly this is your chosen method of analysis. I'll give it to you, you're committed to the cause. You try and use anything you can use and ignore anything that you can't.

Jason Heyward has been on base 148 times after coming to the plate 392 times.

>Jonn Jay (138 PA, or 35.6% of Heyward's)= half as many hits
>in 210 less ABs

And he's been on base 57 times compared to Jason Heyward's 148 times. Which is 38.5%. So he's basically been about as good as Heyward in 1/3 less time. So does that mean he's having a better season, right? Let's ignore all of the other stuff like the fact that Heyward is a better baserunner and better fielder...

Jon Jay through 138 PA: .366/.415/.553 3 HR
Jason Heyward through 138 PA: .274/.399/.540 8 HR

Congratulations, he's might be slightly better than Jason Heyward was offensively 7 weeks into the season. What does that get him?

Jon Jay - 1.4 WAR
Jason Heyward - 2.6 WAR

About 50% of the value of Heyward. If you want to consider that a moral victory because his playing time is around 40% of Heyward's that's fine. If you think that makes him a better candidate for Rookie of the Year I think you have lost your ability to think rationally.

>Buster Posey (228 PA or 60.3% of Heyward's)= 12 less hits in
>120 less ABs

Posey has come on strong, had a huge month. But he's been on base 92 times compared to Heyward's 148. Despite playing a premium defensive position and going .417/.466/.699 last month he's still trailing Heyward in WAR and that .400+ BABIP is going to come down. You know what doesn't fluctuate as wildly as BABIP? Walk rate. You know who's walk rate is 13.8% and 8th in the NL? I'm guessing you do by know, but I can't be sure at this point. It's Jason Heyward. Right behind Joey Votto and Albert Pujols.

>Chris Johnson (149 PA or 39.4% of Heyward's)= half as many
>hits in 200 less ABs

He's got a .350 batting average and a .379 OBP. He has 7 BB in 153 Plate Apperances. He's been on base 58 times compared to Heyward's 148. 7 BB? Come on. Between that and the 2/22 call-up he had last year, I'm not seing great things in this guys future.

>Starlin Castro (300 PA or 79.3% of Heyward's)= 1 more hit for
>Castro and 10 more 2Bs in 60 less ABs

Castro might be the hottest hitter in baseball right now...and that's a good thing because his OBP is .364. That's a about 20 points about league average right there, but still 15 points behind Jason Heyward. Also, I think you confused something here because Heyward has 21 2B on the year to Castro's 20.

But the good news is that because he plays a premium defensive position and had a .944 OPS in July, he's probably positioned himself with Buster Posey as now able to catch Howard in value based metrics.

With that being said, Heyward's still had a better year. According to Fangraphs it's 2.6 WAR for Heyward and 2.2 for Castro (Fangraphs really likes his fielding). Baseball-Reference doesn't like his fielding though and they rate him at only 0.6 WAR. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between.

>Gaby Sanchez (428 PA or 113.2% of Heyward's)= .295 BA in 60
>more ABs

.357 OBP. That's the worst of the bunch so far. I'm hoping we can go lower though. Sanchez has been on base 153 times to Heyward's 148 in about 40 more plate appearances. Meaning that is Jason Heyward goes something like 5 for his next 40, his he will be making outs at the same rate that Gaby Sanchez is right now.

>Tyler Colvin (278 PA or 71.8% of Heyward's)= 6 more HRs in 90
>less ABs

But he's hitting .258 and only has 66 hits. His OBP is .319. He's looking like a Central Time Zone version of Bobby Crosby at the plate. He gets on base less than 1/3 of the time he comes up.

>Ike Davis (386 PA or 99.7% of Heyward's)= amazingly similar
>stats with the exception of BBs and the underwhelming media
>hype

Amazingly similar appearance with the exception of the fact that Jason Heyward is black too. See what I did there? I casually acted like the defining characteristic was incidental. I just borrowed it from you.

Ike Davis - 104 OPS+ and good defense at 1B, average base runner
Jason Heyward - 122 OPS+, good defense in RF, right behind Carl Crawford in Baserunning Gain at +19

Ike Davis - 9 Win Shares
Jason Heyward - 14 Win Shares

>Mike Stanton has now been entered into the officially
>unofficial ROY 10' (I'm better than Jason Heyward) race with 1
>less HR in half as many ABs

Wait, so more HRs = better? Shit, should I go back up and say that Heyward has more HRs than Starlin Castro so he's better? But wait, Jason Heyward has more hits and a higher batting average than Mike Stanton, so he's better right? But then if Mike Stanton has more HRs...but Castro has more hits...What happens then? What happens when your inconsistent and logically flimsy arguments overlap and you start contradicting yourself within the same half-ass post? Will Okayplayer implode?

Stanton is .235/.305/.488. He's fun to watch but he just got above a .300 OBP for the season on August 1. That's Jeff Francouer country.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 10:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
316. "Tyler Colvin and Mike Stanton are both rookie RFs"
In response to Reply # 315


  

          

Tyler Colvin having 6 more HRs in 80 less ABs is pretty significant. As well as Stanton only having 1 less in about half as many ABs. This guy is supposed to be the next Hank Aaron, according to B9 and Hank Aaron himself (also according to B9), but hasn't hit a HR since June 18, had 11 at the break, still has 11. But hey, maybe Colvin and Stanton can work on drawing BBs and forget about hitting HRs for awhile..

Also rookie RFs, Jon Jay and Dominic Brown. Maybe I should start a new race, the officially unofficial RF ROY 10' (I'm better than Jason Heyward) race. It's getting crowded in RF...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 12:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
317. "There are definitely a lot of promising young rookie RFs this year"
In response to Reply # 316


  

          

None of them are having as good a year as Heyward up to this point, but who knows. Maybe Heyward will completely fall apart and drop to the middle of the pack. Until that happens though, he's having the best year. It's not hard to imagine that he's not going to have the best career out of those 5, but things like a hitter's strike zone discipline and fielding ability are strong traits. Heyward is definitely way beyond them right now at this point in those categories.

Although I must say after going to two games in DC agaisnt the Phillies, I was impressed with Brown defensively. Made some great catches and showed a strong arm on a play at the plate where he didn't get the runner. Hasn't walked yet in the bigs but showed a pretty good walk rate in the minors, so I'm not concerned about his long term viability. His OBP is actually lower than his batting average right now. Which is always a fun anomaly when guys don't have a lot of games.

>Tyler Colvin having 6 more HRs in 80 less ABs is pretty
>significant. As well as Stanton only having 1 less in about
>half as many ABs. This guy is supposed to be the next Hank
>Aaron, according to B9 and Hank Aaron himself (also according
>to B9), but hasn't hit a HR since June 18, had 11 at the
>break, still has 11. But hey, maybe Colvin and Stanton can
>work on drawing BBs and forget about hitting HRs for awhile..

The HR slump is getting very long at this point. You'd figure he would have just run into one at this point. I saw him hit one to the track in LF against Santana and he's gotten his share of doubles over that time, but 1 HR since the end of May is definitely something to watch.

That being said, there are certainly many ways to be an effective offensive player. Joe Mauer has only 6 HR compared to 18 at this point last year but still ranks among the best hitters in the game.

>Also rookie RFs, Jon Jay and Dominic Brown. Maybe I should
>start a new race, the officially unofficial RF ROY 10' (I'm
>better than Jason Heyward) race. It's getting crowded in
>RF...

I encourage you to do so. You seem to be having fun in this post.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 12:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
318. "RE: There are definitely a lot of promising young rookie RFs this year"
In response to Reply # 317


  

          

Posters on a phillies site I frequent are calling Dominic Brown Daryl Strawberry without the coke habit. He looks like a fawn when they're just born and figuring out that they have legs and can run. JRoll had to get a hold of him after he missed the cutoff man and tried to make an unnecessary play at the plate. He has the tools and I'll enjoy watching him compete with Heyward and Stanton for the next 10 years...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 07:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
307. "yes, you missed where he made Luis Castillo shit himself"
In response to Reply # 302


          

What should have been a double play after he reached on an error, wright through softly to the 1st base side of 2nd to the covering Castillo who was cringing and came off the bag as Heyward came at him. The ball squirming away, Heyward got up instantly and made it to 3rd.




And the Braves won.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 08:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
308. "RE: yes, you missed where he made Luis Castillo shit himself"
In response to Reply # 307


  

          

anytime you want to post a link, please refer to post #294, where Hank Aaron compares his game to Jason Heyward's I would more than appreciate it...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 08:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
309. "It was in a Dave Obrein blog entry back in March"
In response to Reply # 308
Thu Aug-05-10 08:10 AM by B9

          

but I'm not going to go through the trouble for a troll like you, who doesn't even watch baseball games. OH, and who calls Bleacher Report essays "articles". You're a fucking fool.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 08:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
310. "RE: It was in a Dave Obrein blog entry back in March"
In response to Reply # 309


  

          

so a blog entry is a credible source, got it. and heyward won the game last night on an error by the 2nd baseman, got that too, thanks...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 08:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
311. "the beat-writer for the Braves from the AJC is credible, yes"
In response to Reply # 310


          

you are such a fucking idiot. I would hope that you at least google names before making idiotic statements, being the internet-baseball fan that you are, but I guess even that is a tall ask.



  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 08:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
312. "RE: the beat-writer for the Braves from the AJC is credible, yes"
In response to Reply # 311


  

          

so you're saying you don't have the link, got it

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 08:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
313. "I don't give a fuck to find it for an idiot, it won't make you any less ..."
In response to Reply # 312


          

Or have you not been seeing what EVERYONE ELSE but you are saying in this thread? See, even if I dug it up I'm not sure you have the comprehension skills to understand it, such is the quality of public education in eastern PA I guess.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26424 posts
Thu Aug-05-10 08:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
314. "O'brein's a journalist for the AJC"
In response to Reply # 310


  

          

sadly, that's only the fourth dumbest thing you've said in this post.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

"on the other hand 100% of the Islamic terrorists are Muslims." A f*cking congressman. smh.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 10:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
319. "8/5 Heyward gets a hit..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

going 1 for 3 with a 2b and the ever important BB, but I'm sure his performance can be spun into game winning by B9. The homerless streak continues, still stuck on 11HRs since June 18.
I was more disappointed in Buster Posey's performance going O for 4. I was looking forward to him hitting circles around the Braves. I'll keep an eye on the weekend series.

In other news. Gaby Sanchez hit a game tying 2RBI double to send his game into extra innings, where he was subsequently robbed of a walk off RBI single by the third base umpire. In the same game Mike Stanton went 2 for 4 with the every exciting BB. Rusty Ryal went 2 for 4 scoring 2R and an RBI increasing his BA to .299. Strasburg pitched a simulated game and is scheduled for a bullpen session tomorrow in prelude to his next start tuesday against the fish, barring any setbacks. Only 5 NL games last night, so that's it for now...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 10:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
320. "So Heyward went .333 with a .500 OPS. Thanks."
In response to Reply # 319
Fri Aug-06-10 10:41 AM by B9

          

And if you had seen the game, any of it (tall ask), you'd know that it was a ground rule double to the deepest part of the park he hit on a rope in 70% humidity, aka, in your number-juicing stadium that would have been a homer.

That you are looking for Buster Posey to hit the Braves starting rotation tells me all I need to know about your knoweldge of the game. Hint: what side of the plate does he stand on?





Meanwhile
http://bigboi.com/2010/08/06/big-boi-x-jason-heyward-road-to-sir-lucious-leftfoot/



  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 10:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
322. "Sidebar for B9 and CIA"
In response to Reply # 319


  

          

B9 - Every stat I post or point I try to make you counter with some miraculous play in the outfield or extraordinary baserunning Heyward made that can't be captured in a boxscore and translated into a Braves' win. And the only way I could appreciate what a phenom Heyward is would be to watch the games...
1) We live in the same time zones, I'm assuming you live in ATL. For me to watch the Braves' I would have to ignore my obligations to the Phillies = not happening
2) The series Heyward did face the Phillies he went 1 for 9 in the April series and 0 for 1 with 2 DNPs in the May series, thus my statement that I saw him play in spring training
3) You also make the assumption that the only way to gauge a baseball players' ability is to watch the games, however TV was not commercialized until the 1940s. Subsequently, you're calling your grandfather and everyone who lived before him an idiot or moron about baseball because they read a boxscore


CIA - With your statistical expertise, I ask you this. If Heyward's all-star selection, which by the way was the whole motivation for this post to begin with and has somehow evolved into sabermetrics, was based solely on his merits and not on the media attention, how could you make an argument for him over Jayson Werth. Comparing their stats over the same time frame, I think Werth not only got off to an equally or better start, BA>.340, OPS>1 through most of May, but has also sustained productivity ranking in the top 10 for OBP, 13th in SLG, and top 10 in OPS. Not to mention he was the 09' all-star game RF. Having said that, as a phillies fan who has watched the entire season, I can say by no means is he having a "good" year, in fact a lot of fans are happy his value is decreasing because they don't want his RH power #s to leave, anyway. Also, to get back to the all-star selection which is my main gripe, you assume that all-star voters are looking up stats like WAR and OUTS/9, etc..before making their selection. Wouldn't most fans look at BA, HRs, and RBIs in determining a season's performance.What I was trying to say is that he was voted in due more to the media attention than performance and that other OFs were not only more deserving but also having a better season.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 11:05 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
323. "RE: Sidebar for B9 and CIA"
In response to Reply # 322
Fri Aug-06-10 11:07 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

>CIA - With your statistical expertise, I ask you this. If
>Heyward's all-star selection, which by the way was the whole
>motivation for this post to begin with and has somehow evolved
>into sabermetrics, was based solely on his merits and not on
>the media attention, how could you make an argument for him
>over Jayson Werth. Comparing their stats over the same time
>frame, I think Werth not only got off to an equally or better
>start, BA>.340, OPS>1 through most of May, but has also
>sustained productivity ranking in the top 10 for OBP, 13th in
>SLG, and top 10 in OPS. Not to mention he was the 09' all-star
>game RF. Having said that, as a phillies fan who has watched
>the entire season, I can say by no means is he having a "good"
>year, in fact a lot of fans are happy his value is decreasing
>because they don't want his RH power #s to leave, anyway.
>Also, to get back to the all-star selection which is my main
>gripe, you assume that all-star voters are looking up stats
>like WAR and OUTS/9, etc..before making their selection.
>Wouldn't most fans look at BA, HRs, and RBIs in determining a
>season's performance.What I was trying to say is that he was
>voted in due more to the media attention than performance and
>that other OFs were not only more deserving but also having a
>better season.

In Post #40 I said:

I agree with what I believe to be the basic premises of your post:

1) Jason Heyward, while having had a pretty good season up to now, is arguably not one of the 10 best OFs in the NL
2) Jason Heyward's profile has benefitted from a lot of national media exposure thus far
3) The media exposure probably has more to do with his selection to the AS team than his performance
4) Stephen Strasburg, has also been pretty good this season, but arguably isn't one of the 10 best pitchers in the NL
5) Strasburg's profile has benefitted from a lot of national media exposure
6) Due to the constraints of the system and the decision of one manager, Strasburg was not selected to pitch in the AS game. This could be viewed as a bit of a double standard

With all of that said, I guess I just don't see it as a major issue.

------------------------------

I don't think we ever disagreed that Jason Heyward's first half performance was not worthy of an all-star selection based on merit.

This post has spun off in a number of different directions since #40 though and we haven't seen eye-to-eye on some of those discussions.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 11:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
325. "Also, Werth was a top 3 vote getter in the first two releases of voting"
In response to Reply # 323


          

for the ASG because Philly fans are ballot stuffers. So was Victorino. Actually, come to think of it, up to the 1st week of June 6 of the 8 voteable positions for the NL were Phillies.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 11:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
326. "RE: Sidebar for B9 and CIA"
In response to Reply # 323


  

          

Agreed, now if you could talk some sense into B9, I think we could move on...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 11:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
324. "My grandfather didn't have a hate campaign for a player he didnt watch"
In response to Reply # 322


          

So he didn't base his non-existant hate on half-tales from the box scores; and he was actually a St Louis Browns fan, so I'm sure he hated his entire team most of the time. But lets answer some thing:

>B9 - Every stat I post or point I try to make you counter
>with some miraculous play in the outfield or extraordinary
>baserunning Heyward made that can't be captured in a boxscore
>and translated into a Braves' win. And the only way I could
>appreciate what a phenom Heyward is would be to watch the
>games...

Or understand that "entangibles" do exist and do influence how players are perceived by the experts and fans alike, which is why stats are not what determine championships.

Past that, I'm not really sure why you are needing to be entertained in whatever strange agenda it is you have working here, because it's morphed from (wrongly) complaining about him making the all star game (he was voted in by the fans) to now some crazy stat-race ROY comparison between starting pitchers, middle relievers, catchers, firstbasemen and outfielders. All for the sake of what? Just saying "I DONT LIKE JASON HEYWARD"? Great. Fantastic. I think Prince Fielder is a piece of shit, but I'm not going to use this sight as a daily blog to wrongly attempt to justify that using some obtuse measurement. And if I did, and people pointed out to me multiple times how wrong I was, I would duff my cap and keep my feelings inside.

But that's clearly not you. You have something else working here that is almost disturbing. It's a hate for national media or national perception or popular opinion or celebrated characters or something...it's the worst manifestation of the Philadelphia mindsight we've seen on here since SPM grew up.



  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 11:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
327. "RE: My grandfather didn't have a hate campaign for a player he didnt wat..."
In response to Reply # 324


  

          

The point of the post initially was to emphasize that the main reason Heyward was selected to the All-Star team was due to the excessive media attention he was receiving which voters perceived as a gauge of his performance in comparison to other OF whom were/are still having better seasons and were more deserving of their votes. Your continued insults and personal attacks have derailed this post into my comparing him not only with other OF, but to also emphasize that there are better Rookies in the league, hence the officially unofficial ROY 10' (I'm better than Jason Heyward) race. And it's not trolling or hating, unless he ends up with the Mets...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 11:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
328. "So you are pissed that he had a great April and May?"
In response to Reply # 327


          

And that he is also a generally likeable character with a few great stories? Or that he's being celebrated as a beacon for black youth baseball players? These are the reasons he was covered so much in the first half of the season. How that affected fan voting is impossible to gauge. How it has affected you is fairly easy to see. And don't pretend that you morphed this into this ROY debate, which is a good one if you check your madness at the door, just because you don't understand the ASG is a popularity contest.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 11:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
329. "RE: So you are pissed that he had a great April and May?"
In response to Reply # 328


  

          

You're contradicting yourself again...


How that affected fan voting is impossible to gauge.
the ASG is a popularity contest.

And, again, I'm saying the main reason he got the All-Star votes was due to the media attention, not his performance. There were/still are OF having a better season than him, and now he's not even in the top 5 for ROY, so there are at least 5 rookies having a better season than him, and you could make arguments for 5 more. Not to mention there is heavy competition amongst the rookie class in RF alone. The discussion keeps expanding, but you think this is something personal. I don't know him. And if he plays against the Phils in the last 2 remaining series I'll be able to watch him play. Until then, I'll be checking boxscores and updating the post on the results, since you won't admit the validity of my initial post...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 11:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
330. "It's like arguing with a tin can"
In response to Reply # 329


          

>You're contradicting yourself again...
>
>
>How that affected fan voting is impossible to gauge.
>the ASG is a popularity contest.

Your contention is that he was only voted into the All Star Game because of the media. That is an assumption impossible to prove unless MLB asked a follow up question on every ballot of "WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR THIS GUY".


>And, again, I'm saying the main reason he got the All-Star
>votes was due to the media attention, not his performance.

How can you prove that? How do you not know, say, that he got in because the Atlanta Braves radio network, the largest in pro sports period, campaigned hard for him over the past few weeks leading to the final balot (they did)? Or are you now going to call Jim Powell and Don Sutton part of the national media (you blamed sportscenter in your original post)?


>There were/still are OF having a better season than him,

agreed, but at the time, the fans voted him in. #6. End of story.


>and
>now he's not even in the top 5 for ROY, so there are at least
>5 rookies having a better season than him, and you could make
>arguments for 5 more.

Here's where your arbitrary madness is coming in.


Not to mention there is heavy
>competition amongst the rookie class in RF alone.

Ignoring the fact that Domonic Brown and Mike Stanton haven't played nearly the number of games Heyward has, they are still behind him in the one qualifier of ROY that you have a hard on for.

The
>discussion keeps expanding, but you think this is something
>personal.

I think we have an increadibly long thread that isn't looking too good for you to claim this isn't a personal beef of yours.

>I don't know him. And if he plays against the Phils
>in the last 2 remaining series I'll be able to watch him play.
>Until then, I'll be checking boxscores and updating the post
>on the results, since you won't admit the validity of my
>initial post...

But you won't admit the flaws in your original post? You compared a position player (the fans vote) to a pitcher (the players and coach votes...who, btw, was your guy). This entire thread was founded on a misunderstanding of the guidelines for the ASG process.

but keep banging this drum if you are just that pig-headed to admit how wrong you were on that.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 12:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
331. "RE: It's like arguing with a tin can"
In response to Reply # 330


  

          

And the reason I used Strasburg was to illustrate the absurdity of a Rookie being in the all-star game to begin with. As I've said previously, Strasburg set the record for SOs through the first 3 starts of a pitchers' career and lead the NL in SOs through his starts before going on the DL. The explanation for his snub was that he didn't have enough experience, etc...which was in direct contrast to Heyward getting voted in based off of a good start and subsequent slump. What did he do that was monumental, go on a hitting streak to start a rookie campaign, because that never happened before right. I wasn't comparing him to Strasburg, I was comparing the situations and circumstances surrounding one's all-star selection and one's omission, that was it. And then the discussion gets manipulated into a stat war to reflect his great OBP while ignoring his mediocre BA and HR drought. Compounded with the fact that since he started the season in RF no rookie getting playing time after that will get as many ABs or GP, so we can't compare them, come on. If he did get voted in on merits, it was the first half of the first half of the season, as I've already said, so why is it unfair to compare him to rookies whom have played and produced for a month and a half???

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 12:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
332. "moving the goal posts and again failing to understand simple math"
In response to Reply # 331


          

>As I've said previously, Strasburg set the record for
>SOs through the first 3 starts of a pitchers' career and lead
>the NL in SOs through his starts before going on the DL. The
>explanation for his snub was that he didn't have enough
>experience, etc...

He was called up 35 days before the rosters were due. Go ask YOUR GUY why he didn't include him over the still amazing class of starters that did make the trip.

>which was in direct contrast to Heyward
>getting voted in based off of a good start and subsequent
>slump.

Here we go...and you are still discrediting what a former professional baseball player (with no skin in the game) in this thread even told you about the affect a bad thumb has? Still ignoring how hot he was when he came back from the DL as further proof that his injury was messing with his swing?

again, pigheaded.


>What did he do that was monumental, go on a hitting
>streak to start a rookie campaign, because that never happened
>before right.

Fans voted him in.


>I wasn't comparing him to Strasburg, I was
>comparing the situations and circumstances surrounding one's
>all-star selection and one's omission, that was it.


But you did it really poorly and on wrong grounds. You compared a position player (voted in) to a pitcher (players/coach selection). do you agree that was a bad, ignorant comparison?

>And then
>the discussion gets manipulated into a stat war to reflect his
>great OBP while ignoring his mediocre BA and HR drought.

a) You started that stat war and b) he bats second; getting on base is what is paid to do until Chipper retires and he's moved to third. Taking pitches as a 2 is and always has been the Braves way.


>Compounded with the fact that since he started the season in
>RF no rookie getting playing time after that will get as many
>ABs or GP, so we can't compare them, come on.

See, this is where I'm starting to believe you don't understand how math works...Also, you are leaving out a major part of that argument: he's been the starting right fielder for the division leading team as a rookie since day 1.

>If he did get
>voted in on merits, it was the first half of the first half of
>the season, as I've already said, so why is it unfair to
>compare him to rookies whom have played and produced for a
>month and a half???

So wait, now you're going from the ASG selection (fans voted) to ROY in one jump? Why?
And do you seriously not understand how it's difficult and unfair to compare a guy with 100 ABs to a guy with 400? If I jumped on the field tonight and laid down an infield hit against Barry Zito, that would give me a perfect 1.000 BA and a 1.000 OPS; does that make me, in your mind, the top rookie of the class when you read the box score tomorrow? Of course not. So the solution to comparing players who have lopsided stat bases, let alone play in totally different positions with different tasks and rolls (from pitchers to position players, from lead off guys to dudes batting 8th) is to watch how they play and what they do for their teams. Most people, myself included, have named a few rookies that are likely better candidates for ROY. But that's not good enough for you, which is what makes me think this is personal, and you are bending over backwards trying to try some bizarre reason to say there are 10+ better NL rookies, which is asinine. When the final ballot comes out, he's going to be top 5. I just hope you are in a safe place away from sharp objects when that occurs.

And your contention with the Domonic Browns of the game are that better rookies keep coming up, which is an insane indictment on the scouting network of baseball, but that's getting way too nuanced for this blunt-object thread.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 01:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
333. "RE: moving the goal posts and again failing to understand simple math"
In response to Reply # 332


  

          

You still haven't answered the question as to how am I suppose to watch him play when our teams play in the same time zone. Do you expect me to record Braves' games in order to satisfy your requirements for having an opinion. What am I suppose to do besides read box scores? What did baseball fans do before being spoon fed by sportscenter? Of course he'll be on the ROY ballot, otherwise MLB experts would lose face.

I don't have a problem comparing Heyward to rookies just getting called up and catching fire for the first month to 2 months of their season, aka Buster Posey, Jon Jay, and Chris Johnson. Isn't that your argument for his all-star selection. That he got off to a hot start.

I'm not arguing about the extent of his injury. He was injured and went on the DL, no argument. However, he started to cool off mid-may and didn't go to the DL until the end of June. You can't discount the same period of time, a month and a half, because he underperformed, whether due to injury or not. He goes into a slump = injury. The fist week of August = BA .125 and no HRs since June 18 for the next Hank Aaron, so is he hurt again?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 01:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
334. "You're missing the entire point"
In response to Reply # 333


          

>You still haven't answered the question as to how am I
>suppose to watch him play when our teams play in the same time
>zone. Do you expect me to record Braves' games in order to
>satisfy your requirements for having an opinion.

No, it's that you shouldn't be having such a strong opinion about such a trivial matter when you can't possibly be informed enough to care as much as you do about it.

> Of course he'll be
>on the ROY ballot, otherwise MLB experts would lose face.

MLB experts, who are paid to do what they do, who actually do watch game tape, who employee a vast army of scouts and journalists, aren't going to vote him top 5 on the ballot because they need to "save face". To whom does their face hold value? To what do they need to own up for by not including him?




>I don't have a problem comparing Heyward to rookies just
>getting called up and catching fire for the first month to 2
>months of their season, aka Buster Posey, Jon Jay, and Chris
>Johnson. Isn't that your argument for his all-star selection.
>That he got off to a hot start.

No, you cant fucking read can you? My "argument" is the truth: THE FANS VOTED HIM IN. Beyond that, fuck it.


>I'm not arguing about the extent of his injury. He was injured
>and went on the DL, no argument. However, he started to cool
>off mid-may

When he got injured, as we've covered in this thread already.


>and didn't go to the DL until the end of June.

When he finally owned up to how bad it was.

>You
>can't discount the same period of time, a month and a half,
>because he underperformed, whether due to injury or not.

We can't? We can't say playing with an injury has a negative impact on perfomance? What world do you live in?

The fist week of August = BA .125
>and no HRs since June 18 for the next Hank Aaron, so is he
>hurt again?


And how did he bat in July? which arbitrary time period do you want to use to try and hate on the guy? Do you not understand that baseball goes in cycles? Could we say the Phillies are the worst team in the NL east based on their June slump?


The HR thing is odd, I'll admit that, but he is also playing his role, taking pitches, getting on base and has flattened out his swing.


I'm done here, for a few reasons:

1) this is clearly, despite your protests, a personal thing you have against Heyward or the media or something.
2) You can't read and still fail to understand that the fans vote on all star starters.
3) Nothing will be good enough for you because you only read/see the stats you want to believe; you're like a really bad Fox News anchor.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27115 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 10:53 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
321. "this has to be the most bizarre agenda in okaysports history"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i don't get it © ceej

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
BrooklynWHAT
Member since Jun 15th 2007
85066 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 01:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
335. "i seen 334 posts and was like "HOWWW???""
In response to Reply # 321


  

          

<--- Big Baller World Order

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 02:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
336. "Too bad OKS wasn't around in 1994"
In response to Reply # 321
Fri Aug-06-10 02:43 PM by The Real

  

          

Because then he could tell us how Bob Hamlin deserved to be ROY over Manny Ramirez.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
KosherSam
Member since Mar 18th 2004
70132 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 02:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
337. "guess you missed post 218"
In response to Reply # 336


  

          

*Jews you*

"this is okp tho, reading is completely optional" (c) desus

Proceed with caution. I am overtly racist.

<-- In Pigpen we trust

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 02:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
338. "Sure did"
In response to Reply # 337


  

          



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Fri Aug-06-10 03:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
339. "While maintaining my position, I love that you thought of that"
In response to Reply # 336


          

Great minds think alike. I tip my cap to you, sir.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Aug-08-10 06:09 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
340. "8/8 The weekend wrap-up..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Aug-08-10 06:10 PM by bentagain

  

          

Heyward goes 1 for 8 and sits sunday v LH SP
BA = .262, and the homerless streak continues for the next Hank Aaron

In other news, Buster Posey was named the NL player of the month, and became the first rookie since 1920 to lead all three triple crown categories for an entire month...Brent Mussberger
He hit .417 with seven home runs, 24 RBIs and a 1.165 OPS winning rookie of the month honors as well

Carlos Gonzalez is ripping the NL a new one and currently has the lead for the batting title having increase his BA to .327 is 4th in HRs and tied for 3rd in RBIs after hitting .382 for the month of July. I think Carlos Gonzalez exemplifies the point I was initially trying to express. I watched him rip the phils a new one last year in the playoffs, and he has continued that success this year. When reviewing the all-star votes, he wasn't even in the top 15 vote getters for OF despite hitting .314 OBP = .346 SLG = .532 OPS = .878 with 17 HRS and 62 RBIs at the all-star break. Would it be fair to assume his lack of votes could be due to a lack of media exposure? After the season he had last year and this year he will gain more votes in 11' balloting? Of course, because he has proven that he has all-star ability.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Aug-10-10 10:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
341. "8/9 Homerless streak ends at 32 games..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My point was further supported by this morning's sportscenter. When covering highlights for the Braves v Astros game, half of the time was dedicated to Heyward hitting a home run on his 21st birthday and then comparing him to Ted Williams, because he did the same thing. Meanwhile Crish Johnson went 2 for 4 with 3 RBIs and 2R, which didn't get a mention as the Astros crushed the Braves. And they failed to mention Heyward's homerless streak or the terrible start to August he's having. Is it clear enough now, can you see me???

and Braves lose

In other news...

Mike Leake seems to have hit the rookie wall getting shelled last night v Cardinals. I don't think he's faired too well in last 2 starts, but there's plenty of season left.

Jaime Garcia v Johnny Cueto tonight and...

The return of Strasburg v the Marlins. Rookie matchups v Sanches and Stanton.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-11-10 08:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
342. "8/10 E:60's lead story is Jason Heyward..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Are you serious? People have posted "what's my agenda", what's espn's and mlb's agenda. The lead story on an hour long program about sports is a rookie hitting .262, oh but don't forget his OBP, btw he's 3rd on his own team in OBP. Come on. He didn't play again last night v LH SP. Once again sportscenter conveniently fails to mention Chris Johnson going 3 for 4 in their highlight package of the game. And, to top it off, MLB's commercial for their friday night game is advertised as Matt Kemp (who Joe Torre has all but benched) and the dodgers v Jason Heyward and the braves, WTF?

Not Chipper Jones and the Braves...
Not Brian McCann and the Braves...

Jason Heyward and the Braves, WTF.

Is it clear enough for ya, can you see me?

In other news...
Buster Posey went 3 for 5 with 4RBI and 1R
Jaime Garcia seems to be the only pitcher not hitting the rookie wall in his win last night improving to 10-5 which is top 20 for wins with a 2.71ERA which is 7th best
Starlin Castro went 2 for 5 with 3RBI
Strasburg got shelled, and he was barely breaking the mid 90s. We'll see if its just rust or if the Nats shut him down

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Aug-11-10 08:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
343. "So, not for the first time, you are being a hate-filled idiot"
In response to Reply # 342


          

It's a rerun of the original that ran in May and has less to do with him as a player and more to do with him as a good guy.


But continue this parade of idiocy and kill yourself when he finishes top 5 in the ROY vote. Please.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-11-10 09:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
344. "RE: So, not for the first time, you are being a hate-filled idiot"
In response to Reply # 343


  

          

Since you're the authority on Braves' baseball you must have seen friday night's game, you know the one where they retired Tom Glavine's number but the game didn't sellout, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Anyway, they flash Tom Glavine's resume, which is a lock for 1st ballot hall of fame, on the screen and it reads accordingly...

Line 1: 4th alltime in wins by a LH
Line 2: 2 time cy young award winner, 91' and 96'(I think)
LINE 3: 10 TIME ALL-STAR...

And as previously stated, hall of fame voters take into account all-star selections as criteria for admittance or obmission from the hall of fame. Still think Heyward deserved being voted in by the fans over players like Matt Holliday and Carlos Gonzalez? Still think all the media attention i.e., espn, sportscenter, mlb network, aren't the main factors for his fan votes in comparison to his performance? Seriously?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Aug-11-10 10:01 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
346. "So by failing to address it, you admit being wrong again. "
In response to Reply # 344


          

Good, now that's cleared up, onto your all star game hardon that's popped back up again for some reason:



The fans voted him in.


The fans don't vote on hall of famers.



End of post.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Wed Aug-11-10 02:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
347. "Again, did you just start watching baseball?"
In response to Reply # 344


  

          

The Braves didn't sell out World Series games!!!! What makes you think they're going to sell out a game where Glavin got his jersey retired?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-11-10 03:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
348. "You're confused..."
In response to Reply # 347


  

          

This is the post where I discredit Jason Heyward's all-star selection, not the post where I discredit all Atlanta fans...

Anyway, nobody is addressing the argument, that he was selected to the all-star team as a reflection more of his media exposure and not on his performance on the field, hence

" It's a rerun of the original that ran in May and has less to do with him as a player and more to do with him as a good guy."

what else could it have been about? i'm saying the same thing about his all-star selection, it has less to do with him as a player and more to do with the media attention.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Aug-11-10 09:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
345. "RE: 8/10 E:60's lead story is Jason Heyward..."
In response to Reply # 342


  

          

I think we're definitely getting to the point where the rookie field is catching Heyward. In addition to Posey having closed the gap I'd now rate Castro right there with him. Still 7 weeks to go, but the way things have played out the last two weeks he appears to be losing some steam. It looks like Atlanta is aware of this and will try and give him some more rest if possibly down the stretch to keep him fresh into September and hopefully for them October.



  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-11-10 05:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
349. "8/10 DNP against another LH SP..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"Braves RF Jason Heyward missed his second straight game because of a sore right knee. He expects to be back in the lineup Friday when the team opens a series with the Dodgers."

So it's just a coincidence that his sore right knee just happens to coincide with 2 DNPs against LH SP and a terrible start to August:
.167 BA 306 OBP 400 SLG. And coincidentally, LA's SP Kuroda is RH. Starting to smell like bullshit up in here.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-12-10 07:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
350. "8/11 The officially unofficial (I'm better than Jason Heyward) ROY 10' "
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Aug-12-10 07:54 AM by bentagain

  

          

race update...

Starlin Castro SS went 2 for 4, his 3rd consecutive multi hit game, scored 1R from 1st, and is now hitting BA = .313
Mike Stanton RF went 5 for 5, a triple short of the cycle, scored 2R, and had 4RBIs
Jon Jay RF went 2 for 5, scored 1R, and is now hitting BA = .372 OBP =.418 SLG =.559
Chris Johnson is now hitting BA =.361 OBP =.388 SLG =.548

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-12-10 07:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
351. "8/12 Starlin Castro is on FYYAAAAHHHH!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"August 12, 2010
Starlin Castro went 4-for-5 with an RBI, two runs scored and a stolen base in Chicago's 8-7 loss to San Francisco Thursday.

Our View:Castro's earned multiple hits in seven of his past 10 games, including each of his past four. He scored nine runs over that span while pushing his average to .320 through 309 at-bats."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Aug-15-10 07:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
352. "8/15 The Weekend Wrap-up"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Heyward goes 1 for the weekend. 1 for 8, with a DNP on sunday with what is reported to be a swollen knee. His BA in August is .158 and his OBP is .273 in August. Maybe its just a coincidence the Braves traded for Ankiel, hmmm

The Officially Unofficial (I'm Better Than Jason Heyward) ROY 10' race breaks down like this.

Group A = Players Ahead of Jason Heyward in the ROY 10' race to date (in no particular order)

Buster Posey
Starlin Castro
Gaby Sanchez
Jaime Garcia
Mike Leake
Stephen Strasburg

Group B = Players Finishing Ahead of Jason Heyward in the ROY 10' race (if current performance levels continue)

Mike Stanton
Chris Johnson
Jon Jay
Rusty Ryal
Jonny Venters
Jonathon Niese

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-18-10 06:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
353. "8/18 The Worst All-Stars, Ever"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Got to wondering, what would the worst BA be for a player who made the all-star team = http://www.thedailysomething.com/2010-articles/july/the-worst-all-stars-ever.html

Heyward had another 0 for on Monday, but managed to get a hit yesterday, going 1 for 4 with a current BA of .256.

Braves trade for Derek Lee, could they possibly be thinking of putting Glaus in the OF, hmmm,...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Aug-18-10 07:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
354. "Terry Steinbach was hitting .217 when he started the 88 All-Star Game"
In response to Reply # 353
Wed Aug-18-10 07:39 PM by Call It Anything

  

          

MVP of the game though.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-18-10 08:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
355. "RE: Terry Steinbach was hitting .217 when he started the 88 All-Star Gam..."
In response to Reply # 354


  

          

And he probably got voted in off of name recognition (and/or because he plays a premium defensive position)...makes you wonder how a rookie has the same name recognition as a catcher who hit .284 with 16 Hrs in 87' played on a WS club in 88'(that won 3 straight AL pennants), ESPN maybe, Sportscenter possibly, MLB network even...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-18-10 08:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
357. "He always has spring training...Instant Legend"
In response to Reply # 355


  

          

Heyward's an instant hit with Braves

FoxSports

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla.

Braves phenom a threat to shatter expectations -- and windshields.

To answer the question on everyone's mind: Yes, Bruce Manno's sunroof has been fixed.

"I'm waiting for the miniseries to start," Manno quipped on Thursday.

Manno is the Atlanta Braves' assistant general manager. Despite his important role in the team's front office, he's not the sort of guy whose name appears in newspapers and blogs very often. That changed when outfielder Jason Heyward, a spring sensation for all the right reasons, shattered the unsuspecting pane of glass atop Manno's Toyota 4Runner with an immense batting-practice homer.

Distance: 450 or 460 feet, maybe more.

Cost of repairs: about $3,000.

Instant legend status: Priceless.

Braves executives park their cars in a lot beyond the right field wall at Champion Stadium. Balls have clanged into that area before, denting trunks, buzzing security guards and teasing at the possibility of more significant damage. In fact, Manno can recall catcher Brian McCann and first baseman Freddie Freeman also strafing the area with BP homers.

But they aren't the talk of Braves camp right now, even though McCann has made four consecutive All-Star teams and Freeman is one of the top 50 prospects in baseball. Nope, the Braves' Disney compound has become Camp Heyward, and a home run that didn't count was the flash point of it all.

The team has even made plans to erect netting in order to prevent further mayhem from Heyward's mighty left-handed swing.

Sounds like a lot of hype, I know. But for an industry built on differences of opinion -- you can probably find someone who will tell you that Roy Halladay is going to struggle in the National League -- there is a startling level of consensus when it comes to the 20-year-old Heyward.

I have spoken with nine people about Heyward over the past few days. Not one has said, "He's not ready for the majors," or offered similar buzz-muting statements.

Heyward is currently involved in the competition to become the Braves' starting right fielder, and, barring injury, I fully expect him to win it.

I am not alone.

On Wednesday afternoon, Chipper Jones was asked to predict the date of Heyward's major league debut.

"What's Opening Day?" Jones replied. "I would be shocked if he doesn't break camp with us."

"If he wins the job, he wins the job," manager Bobby Cox said. "No holding back. He's been pretty impressive."

With Heyward, hyperbole has become sport. The industry echo chamber is producing some pretty unforgettable statements about the 6-foot-5, 240-pound kid, who, lest we forget, has fewer than 200 at-bats above Class A.

One scout told me Wednesday that Heyward is as good as Ken Griffey Jr. at the same age.

"That caliber," the scout said, nodding. "He's so special."

Will Heyward be as great as Junior? I don't know. He hasn't even played a major league game. But if Heyward is even 70 or 80 percent as good, he would be an outstanding right fielder for the Braves this year. And that's the job for which he is applying.

Heyward has done a remarkable job of remaining himself amid the fervor. Before Wednesday's game, he was engaged in an animated discussion about basketball with his fellow non-roster invitees. He looked as if he were about to play against the Carolina Mudcats or Montgomery Biscuits, not the New York Mets.

"It doesn't feel different," Heyward said, after going 1-for-2 with a double in the Braves' 9-5 win over the Mets. "More people are paying attention now to the team, to myself, but my approach has stayed the same. I've always expected the same for myself."

But Heyward is not just another guy, competing for another job, in another camp. He grew up outside of Atlanta. He still lives outside of Atlanta. He could very quickly become the new face of the organization - an African-American star in the big, multicultural city close to his home.

He is widely regarded as the top position player prospect in the game. He is on the cover of this year's Baseball America Prospect Handbook .

Even better: He doesn't act like he's on the cover of this year's Baseball America Prospect Handbook .

"He's as humble as anyone I've ever been around," said Braves outfielder Matt Young, a minor league teammate of Heyward's. "He's not one of those holier-than-thou types. He gets along with everybody. He fits in.

"He's just a good dude."

Heyward's name is on everyone's lips now because of his talent, but the "good dude" factor won't hurt. If he lives up to the scouting reports, Heyward will be as popular as Ryan Howard in very short order. With status comes attention and pressure.

Heyward said he feels "ready" to play in the major leagues, and, by all accounts, he appears grounded enough to deal with the successes and failures that will go with that. His parents, Eugene Jr. and Laura, are graduates of Dartmouth College. As he sat at his locker, Heyward cited one familiar-yet-effective lesson they had taught him: "Work for what you get."

It should come as no surprise, then, that Heyward said he hasn't been reading the stories about him this spring.

"He's himself - that's what impresses me," Jones said. "He doesn't try to be anything else. He's learning. He's quiet, which is good from a rookie. You can tell he was brought up right. He's got a good head on his shoulders.

"He's going to fit in here, not because of his physical ability, but because he knows how to play the game right."

Heyward's overall game might be more impressive than the BP moon shots. He's a patient hitter who accumulated the same number of walks as strikeouts last year (51) despite playing most of the season at 19. Cox raved about Heyward's defensive instincts after Wednesday's game, saying he's "waaaay ahead of the game at his age."

Heyward has strong hands and a relatively short swing, making him a hitting coach's dream. He understands how to hammer balls to the opposite field. His double on Wednesday was a low-flying laser that one-hopped the wall in center. "Scorched," was the description of one person in the scout section.

"He doesn't know how good he is," Braves catcher J.C. Boscan said. "He's the best player I've seen at that age, period."

Barring injury, there would probably be only two reasons for the Braves to start Heyward in the minors. Neither is very compelling.

1. The team could save money by keeping his service-time clock at zero. On the other hand, they have so much to gain by promoting him now. In addition to his obvious potential to contribute, he will draw fans to Turner Field on his own.

2. Skeptics can point out that the Braves may not want to put someone with zero big-league experience in their Opening Day outfield, as they did (unsuccessfully) with Jordan Schafer last year. But baseball people familiar with both players offer an easy counter: Heyward is a better, more refined player.

About the only thing he hasn't done this spring was set the new glass on Manno's sunroof himself. But Manno seems OK with that.

"Next spring, I'm getting a convertible and putting the top down," Manno said, laughing. "That's probably going to be my next move."

Thanks, Larry.

King of funny to read now...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Aug-18-10 10:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
360. "With regards to your query..."
In response to Reply # 353


  

          

Best I can manage, I think this is the list of worst end of year batting averages in All-Star years:

Reggie Jackson .194 (1983)
Eddie Miller .194 (1946)
Ozzie Smith .199 (1995)
Don Wert .200 (1968)
Mark McGwire .201 (1991)
Mike Schmidt .203 (1989)
Roy Campanella .207 (1954)
Jason Giambi .208 (2004)
Eddie Miller .209 (1944)
Joe Gordon .210 (1946)
Harmon Killebrew .210 (1968)

As you can imagine, there are a good number of popular HOF players on their victory lap in the mix.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-19-10 06:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
362. "RE: With regards to your query..."
In response to Reply # 360


  

          

So are you starting to see where my WTF reaction to Heyward's all-star selection came from. On your list you have, as stated, numerous HOF players in the twilight of their career being selected to the all-star team due to previous success. So how does a Rookie hitting .251 at the break get voted onto the all-star team = exposure from the media. Which is why i cited ESPN and Sportscenter as the main culprits, but that induced the ire of Braves' fans as an indictment on their franchise. It was a reaction to the popularity of a Rookie, who is not even in the top 5 in the ROY race, with fans. The only explanation I could come up with, due to his subpar performance, especially in comparison to OFs such as Matt Holliday and Carlos Gonzalez, was the overexposure (see article in previous post)

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Wed Aug-18-10 08:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
356. "Dominic Brown better"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.†(c) The God

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

dEs
Member since Sep 01st 2006
34879 posts
Wed Aug-18-10 08:41 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
358. "8/18: 3-3 with the game-winning, walk-off single"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

u mad?

_____

shann.email/inbox.pls.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Aug-18-10 08:48 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
359. "And I'm the Troll..."
In response to Reply # 358


  

          

3-3, in what dimension do you live. He went 1 for 5, his 2nd hit in the last 3 games. now hitting .255. WOW, set the world on fire...

you conveniently failed to address his .160BA for the month, and the list of at least 10 players that are ahead of him for ROY, but thanks for playing

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
dEs
Member since Sep 01st 2006
34879 posts
Wed Aug-18-10 10:30 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
361. "NOPE your fault."
In response to Reply # 359


  

          

I told you in the first reply where you f*cked up but you decided
to go off the deep end, started cherry-picking Heyward's stats

so, now it's time to have some fun--at the expense of your thread

_____

shann.email/inbox.pls.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-19-10 06:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
363. "RE: NOPE your fault."
In response to Reply # 361


  

          

You also failed to mention his pop-up for the 3rd out in the bottom of the 7th with the bases loaded. To his credit he worked the count to 3-0 on the Nats reliever, he wasn't getting a hit off of Levan. But if he can't hit a 3-0 fastball down the middle of the plate, he probably shouldn't be in baseball on any level

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Thu Aug-19-10 07:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
364. "5th game winning hit of the year"
In response to Reply # 363


          

Where do the other rookies come in on that stat?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Aug-19-10 03:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
365. "8/19 1 for 3 with a SB and R..."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Aug-19-10 03:30 PM by bentagain

  

          

maybe he's coming out of his 2nd month long slump, but he's still hitting .256. so i'm being accused of cherry picking stats because i update Heyward's BA, but don't compare how many game winners he has compared to other rookies. I said in my opening post, he has a good eye so I don't feel the need to update OBP (where he currently ranks 4th in my officially unofficial I'm better than Jason Heyward ROY 10' race), which translates to OPS (where he currently ranks 6th in my officially unofficial I'm better than Jason Heyward ROY 10' race), but I think I already said that. Tyler Colvin has 6 more HRs than the next Hank Aaron with 80 less ABs, but I think I said that already. Mike Stanton has 2 more HR than the next Ken Griffey Jr. in 150 less ABs, but someone started their own post for Stanton, so that's been said already too.

Tyler Colvin has 6 game winning RBIs
Starlin Castro has 7

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Thu Aug-19-10 03:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
366. "He's also 4th in WPA"
In response to Reply # 365


          

Not among rookies, in the league. It's a bit more complex than BA and HR totals, so I'm not expecting you to grasp it too well, but trust me, that's a big number for a rookie. The next closest is Buster at 40th.

And you are still mad.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Thu Aug-19-10 04:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
367. "RE: 8/19 1 for 3 with a SB and R..."
In response to Reply # 365


  

          

Game Winning RBI was among the more confusing stats, which is why MLB retired is over 20 years ago. That being said, I don't know where people are getting the numbers from right now but from what I was able to pull about "Game Winning Hits" using an personal definition of a basehit that comes in the bottom of the 8th inning or later when the batter's team is behind or tied that plates a runner or runners that put his team ahead. That is then followed by his team winning in the next half inning (assuming that it did not end the game in the bottom of the inning).

I'm not exactly sure what this stat proves, if anything, but I was confused about the numbers that were being thrown around and did this for my own clarity...

Jason Heyward:

8/18 - Bottom 9th 2 Out RBI single v. Nationals (Braves win 3-2)
7/30 - Top of 10th 2 Out 2 RBI 2B @ Reds (Braves win 6-4)
5/19 - Bottom 9th 2 Out RBI 2B v. Phillies (Braves win 5-4)
4/18 - Bottom of 9th 2 Out 2 RBI Single v. Colorado (Braves win 4-3)

I could find no instances of Colvin or Castro doing that. Again, I'm not really sure this proves anything but considering that Castro has 28 RBIs in Cubs wins, something about 7 of those being game winners didn't sound right.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-20-10 08:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
368. "RE: 8/19 1 for 3 with a SB and R..."
In response to Reply # 367
Fri Aug-20-10 08:41 AM by bentagain

  

          

CIA - articles for colvin and castro

http://bullpenbrian.wordpress.com/2010/07/25/tyler-colvin-nl-rookie-of-the-year/

http://dailyherald.com/story/?id=396248

B9 - I'm mad, and you are posting stats like WPA to validate Heyward, riiiiigghhtt, because that's the reason he got selected to the all-star team. Every baseball fan knows that WPA is far more important than BA or HRs, I'm sure that all the voters looked up his WPA before selecting him.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Fri Aug-20-10 08:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
369. "You were upset Strausburg wasn't "voted in", aka, you're an idiot"
In response to Reply # 368


          

And seriously, I can't wait for you to kill yourself when he's voted top 5 in the ROY.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-20-10 09:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
370. "RE: You were upset Strausburg wasn't "voted in", aka, you're an idiot"
In response to Reply # 369


  

          

As previously stated, the reference to Strasburg's omission was to provide contrast for reasons not to select a rookie to the all-star team = lack of experience, not deserving based on a small sample size, more experienced players more deserving of the selection. As far as ROY, the highest you could have him ranked today is 7th:

Gaby Sanchez
Buster Posey
Starlin Castro
Jaime Garcia
Mike Leake
Steven Strasburg

seriously, but I'm glad to see your being more rational in settling for him finishing 5th

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-20-10 11:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
371. "8/20 Buster's first visit to Philly..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the recent giant v phillies series afforded me the opportunity to watch buster for a whole series (heyward sat against a previous LH heavy Phils rotation earlier in the season). tue and wed he did well, 3-8. but thurs was the kicker. he was scheduled for an off day. this kid shows up early to the ballpark and convinces bochi he's fresh enough to get the start at 1b (LH BA against hamels is around .180 = Huff sit and keep Posey's bat in the lineup). this kid goes 2 for 4 with 2 RBI and a R, on his day off. Thurs was his 29th start at 1B. Game Over. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing any other rookie can do to win the ROY

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Fri Aug-20-10 11:24 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
372. "RE: 8/20 Buster's first visit to Philly..."
In response to Reply # 371


  

          

>the recent giant v phillies series afforded me the
>opportunity to watch buster for a whole series (heyward sat
>against a previous LH heavy Phils rotation earlier in the
>season). tue and wed he did well, 3-8. but thurs was the
>kicker. he was scheduled for an off day. this kid shows up
>early to the ballpark and convinces bochi he's fresh enough to
>get the start at 1b (LH BA against hamels is around .180 =
>Huff sit and keep Posey's bat in the lineup). this kid goes 2
>for 4 with 2 RBI and a R, on his day off. Thurs was his 29th
>start at 1B. Game Over. As far as I'm concerned there's
>nothing any other rookie can do to win the ROY

I'm still more impressed by Garcia's 2.58 ERA. He's 6th in the league in ERA and 8th in opponent OPS. Walks seem to come and go with him but I think if he can make 30 starts this year it's his to lose.

If I had to vote right now I'd go:

1. Garcia
2. Posey
3. Heyward

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Aug-20-10 11:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
373. "RE: 8/20 Buster's first visit to Philly..."
In response to Reply # 372


  

          

giants v cards, coincidence??? the cards seem to be spiraling out of control. if posey can keep the giants ahead of the cards for the wildcard, i think that would knock garcia out

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Fri Aug-20-10 11:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
374. "RE: 8/20 Buster's first visit to Philly..."
In response to Reply # 373
Fri Aug-20-10 11:49 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

Despite dropping 4 in a row, the Cardinals actually have a better record (8-7) in their last 15 than the Giants (6-9).

That being said, both teams definitely need this series to hang around the playoff race.

I like the Cardinals schedule down the stretch a little more. With 43 games to go, they have 9 against the Pirates, who they are 5-1 against this year. Surprisingly they've struggled against Houston and Chicago, 9-12 on the year with them and another 9 games. Throw in a series against Washington and half of their remaining games are against bad teams.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Sun Aug-22-10 03:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
375. "*cough*"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Aug-22-10 04:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
376. "9th time all year somebody's reached base 6 times in 6 PAs"
In response to Reply # 375


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
40thStreetBlack
Charter member
27115 posts
Sun Aug-22-10 06:03 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
377. "lol bentagain lol"
In response to Reply # 375


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Aug-22-10 06:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
378. "RE: *cough*"
In response to Reply # 375


  

          

He'll still finish around .260 on the season. 0 for on friday...

did you catch the comments about castro. barring injury he should get enough plate appearances (posey too) to qualify for the batting title, which would make him the youngest player in mlb history to win a batting title

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Aug-22-10 07:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
379. "RE: *cough*"
In response to Reply # 378


  

          

>did you catch the comments about castro. barring injury he
>should get enough plate appearances (posey too) to qualify for
>the batting title, which would make him the youngest player in
>mlb history to win a batting title

Castro should but Posey right now needs 201 plate appearances over the last 37 games of the season to qualify. That's not going to happen. I'm conservatively projecting Castro to come in around 518 (probably more if he stays at the top of the line-up) while Posey will have a lot of trouble cracking 450 for the year.

Of course qualifying is one thing, winning it would be some long odds. I guess after that 4-5 Castro has to be seen as a dark horse batting title contender. His current average would put him somewhere around 5th. While the .400+ BABIP that he's been sporting since July 8 (when he was hitting a Heywardian .265) is always a tough thing to keep up, it's only 37 games so I suppose it's possible. I think Votto and Pujols (who has a shot at the Triple Crown) are the two favorites.

Although the most interesting figure in the whole batting title/Triple Crown race might be Omar Infante. Through 127 games with the Braves he is hitting .349 in 333 PA. He's going to need 168 in the final 35 games to qualify. That's 4.8 per game, playing everyday. Very, very slim chance of that happening but with Infante now in the lead-off spot, it's conceivable. In the unlikely event he can get to the plate that often he would only need to hit about .274 (presuming 157 AB) to come in at .324 for the year.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Aug-22-10 07:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
380. "RE: *cough*"
In response to Reply # 379
Sun Aug-22-10 07:44 PM by bentagain

  

          

and yet you don't have castro ranked in your top 3 for ROY

since you know your stuff, where is venters in the ROY race. he only has 63IP, which qualifies as his rookie year with a 1.13ERA in 58 appearances, which leads the league for pitchers with over 60IP and makes Heyward the 2nd best rookie on his own team...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sun Aug-22-10 08:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
381. "Correct"
In response to Reply # 380


  

          

Despite his sizable lead in batting average Jason Heyward is now 15 points ahead of him in On-Base and Slugging each. Concurrently, Heyward has been a better base runner and better defender. All this with 72 more plate appearances on the season. Not to mention playing his home games in a pitcher's park v. Castro playing in a hitter's park, making the differences more jarring when adjusted for conditions. Catro's only meaningful advantage comes from the fact that he plays SS but that is not enough to overcome the difference between them.

This bears out in most value based metrics:

Jason Heyward/Starlin Castro

Wins Shares 15/10
WAR (BB-Ref) 2.4/0.2
WAR (Fangraph) 2.6/1.9
WARP (BBPro) 2.8/2.1

It should be noted that none of those have factored in today's game.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Aug-23-10 04:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
383. "RE: Correct"
In response to Reply # 381


  

          

you didn't answer my question about venters. 4th in the league in appearances and 1st in the league in era for pitchers with >60IP. Isn't he also ahead of Heyward for ROY, which makes him the 2nd best rookie on his own team...

this argument keeps going in circles. i conceded his ability to get on base which translates to OBP, only a 15 point difference .378 v .363. should the next Hank Aaron have a better SLG than a SS, you would think so, however there is only a 14 point difference in SLG 452 v 438. A "sizeable" lead in BA, lets not be modest, its 50 points. how can you even compare them as defenders, SS v RF, c'mon son. to say Heyward is a better defender than Castro is ridiculous. you'll post some stat about errors or put outs or whatever, but c'mon son...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Mon Aug-23-10 08:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
385. "RE: Correct"
In response to Reply # 383


  

          

>you didn't answer my question about venters. 4th in the
>league in appearances and 1st in the league in era for
>pitchers with >60IP. Isn't he also ahead of Heyward for ROY,
>which makes him the 2nd best rookie on his own team...

Venters has been awesome. There's probably an easy argument to make that he's been one of the 10 best relief pitchers in the NL this year. That being said, he's still a relief pitcher. He's only done it against 250 batters and with the modern use of the bullpen about 25% of that time has come late in the game when there was a difference of 4 runs or more. Some people look at relief pitchers the same way that others look at kickers in football. Because their role is so specialized and it seems like you can throw a rock and hit an average one to sign, they better be really, really good to start contending for major awards. Not a complete analogy, but the point being that relievers need to be like Eric Gagne in 2003 to earn anything more than a Rolaids award in the eyes of some.

That being said, Venters has been so good that even in those 65ish that I would definitely have him ahead of a few position players this year, just not Heyward.

>this argument keeps going in circles. i conceded his ability
>to get on base which translates to OBP, only a 15 point
>difference .378 v .363. should the next Hank Aaron have a
>better SLG than a SS, you would think so, however there is
>only a 14 point difference in SLG 452 v 438. A "sizeable" lead
>in BA, lets not be modest, its 50 points. how can you even
>compare them as defenders, SS v RF, c'mon son. to say Heyward
>is a better defender than Castro is ridiculous. you'll post
>some stat about errors or put outs or whatever, but c'mon
>son...

To me the 50 points mean very, very little when they don't get him on base more. What's the advantage then of the 50 points? Driving runners in? Heyward's AB/RBI ratio is 50% better. JH has had 57 RBIs in 157 RBI opportunities (36.5%). Castro has had 37 RBI in 115 opportunities (32.3%). Average is fun and if I'm paying I would much rather see guys put the ball in play, but at the end of the day, if you're playing to win, it really doesn't matter. Heyward has been on base more does it make a difference if it was by hit, walk, or HBP?

You have hit on a good point in comparing their SLG. Castro's .438 SLG ranks him 4th (out of 15) among NL SS with at least 300 PA. He's between Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes. Excellend company. Heyward's .452 ranks him 6th (out of 13) relative to all NL RFs. This plays out in VORP, which measures hitting relative to your position. Castro's 23.9 is 2nd among NL rookies (to Posey) while Heyward's 20.0 is 4th (with Sanchez being 3rd). So if you put the argument in a vacuum, you could say that "In terms of offensive production relative to their specific positions, Starlin Castro has had a better offensive year up to this point than Jason Heyward." I think it's still relatively close, but Castro holds a distinct edge when comparing him to other SS.

That being said, outside of the vacuum he has not had as good of a year as Heyward offensively. Also the 19% difference in playing time is significant. That difference will close though, especially if Heyward keeps getting regular days off like he has.

And as for the defense, you are right that it is extremely difficult to compare somebody at a prime position like SS to a RF in terms of what they contribute in terms of defense. Jason Heyward has been an absolute stud in RF. John Dewan, who is my favorite defensive guy, ranks him 1st among all RFs. As for Castro, UZR and Dewan have him about average and Total Zone absolutely despises him. So he's probably about average or maybe a tick below. The way that shakes out when I look at it and among people whose opinions I trust is that, at the end of the day even when you adjust for position, it's not enough for Castro to overtake Heyward.

Basically, I think that over the last month Castro has certainly closed the gap on Heyward (I'm sure he'd be excited to know that he's in the race for 3rd place in my hypothetical NL ROY vote), but right now I don't put him above JH. However there are 35ish games left and he could overtake him.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32093 posts
Mon Aug-23-10 12:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
382. "the L that keeps on giving "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>...dude is hitting .251. How does he get on the all-star
>team. 11 hrs and 42 rbi aren't bad, but an all-star, really. I
>saw him play a couple of spring training games and I was more
>than impressed, but an all-star, GTFOOH. If he played in
>philly the fans would be ripping management for bringing him
>up too early and bent on getting him sent back down, .251
>
>...and the argument against not pitching Strasburg in the
>all-star game is that it would be direspectful to veterans,
>that he has to prove himself first. WTF, dude has a 2.45 era
>and 53 SO in 6 starts
>
>Sportscenter, i blame thee

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Aug-23-10 07:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
384. "8/23 Heyward has the first 4 hit game of his career..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

welcome to the show son...

Jaime Garcia pitched his first complete game shutout, now 11-6 with a 2.42 ERA, 6th in the league
Strasburg is most likely shutdown for the season
Mike Leake has been moved to the bullpen and possibly DNF to clear a roster spot
Posey and Castro are still raking

ROY Rankings
Posey
Garcia
Castro
Venters
Sanchez
Niese
Stanton
Heyward

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Mon Aug-23-10 08:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
386. "It was the 9th time this year he'd been on base 4+ times though"
In response to Reply # 384


  

          

That ties him for 6th in all of baseball.

Only Rickie Weeks, Prince Fielder, Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Hamilton and Carl Crawford have done it more this year.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 01:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
394. "RE: It was the 9th time this year he'd been on base 4+ times though"
In response to Reply # 386


  

          

Since that post, he's done it twice more and now has 11 games of reaching base 4+ times. Putting him in a tie for 3rd this year (With Hamilton, A. Gonzalez, and Braun) behind Major League leaders Rickie Weeks and Prince Fielder who have each done it 13 times.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

VonClay
Charter member
21865 posts
Tue Aug-31-10 12:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
387. "Since you didn't want to up this post I will"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This kid is a ball player. No if ands or buts about it.

Just go ahead and take your L while you're ahead.

Instagram: @von_clay

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Aug-31-10 12:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
388. "My OP was on July 6..."
In response to Reply # 387


  

          

its taken almost 2 months for this kid to get on a hot streak, which is only the last 9 games. You've been waiting awhile haven't you...

But just so we're clear, he was hitting .251 at the break. He was voted in over OFs like Carlos Gonzalez, Matt Holliday, Corey Hart, Marlon Byrd, Jayson Werth, etc...Who were not only having a better season than him at the break, but are also having a better season to date. And it still doesn't make sense...

but you will have the numbers tomorrow

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Tue Aug-31-10 01:18 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
389. "*watches airplane fly over your head*"
In response to Reply # 388


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 01:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
390. "9/1 Jason Heyward comes to life..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-01-10 01:01 PM by bentagain

  

          

Its funny how I was the only one updating this post for almost two months. Heyward gets hot for 9 games, and all the trolls come out. You asked for it, so here it is...

Heyward has actually put together 2 good months consecutively. I have officially moved him up to 7th on the officially unofficial I’m better than Jason Heyward ROY 10’ race. Standings are as follows…

1. Buster Posey - .328 BA, .872 OPS, catcher/first baseman
2. Jaime Garcia - 12W 6L, 2.33 ERA, starting pitcher
3. Starlin Castro - .313 BA, .794 OPS, shortstop
4. Chris Johnson - .329 BA, .847 OPS, third baseman
5. Jon Jay - .330 BA, .860 OPS, right field
6. Johnny Venters – 61 GP, 1.74 ERA, relief pitcher
7. Jason Heyward - .278 BA, .865 OPS, right field

Rookies still in the hunt = september slump for heyward and they take his spot

Gaby Sanchez
Tyler Colvin
Jonathan Niese
Rusty Ryal

Out of the race…

Mike Leake, on DL with a tired arm
Stephen Strasburg, injured
Ike Davis, Heyward finally put some distance between the two
Mike Stanton, maybe next year

Outfielders who had a better season at the break and a better season to date but still received less votes than Heyward

Carlos Gonzalez - .326 BA, .956 OPS
Matt Holliday - .301 BA, .892 OPS
Marlon Byrd - .304 BA, .810 OPS
Corey Hart - .281 BA, 858 OPS
Jayson Werth - .295 BA, 907 OPS

Funny how some posters can admit there is an agenda by MLB/Braves to market Heyward as a means to engage the forgotten african american/inner-city audience, but that got lost in this post somewhere. Strange…

“The economic makeup of the area immediately surrounding the Ted is mixed but mainly below the poverty line, which kills the pedestrian fan base, not to mention the piss-poor job ownership has done in outreach to the African American community (hence the importance of Heyward). “ - B9

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 01:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
391. "Oh, because he's black you don't like him. Thanks for admitting it. "
In response to Reply # 390
Wed Sep-01-10 01:20 PM by B9

          

You took something from another thread that you didn't have the balls to respond to because it was too thought out and actually informative and tried to morph it into the context of major league baseball having a race agenda, making you sound like both a fucking idiot (again) and a racist.

Congrats, you are really winning people over to what ever opinion you are trying to express here. hit the logout button and google Caste Sports, you'll find more people of your ilk there.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 01:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
392. "Finally got hot?"
In response to Reply # 390


  

          

Dude he was hitting well before the wrist injury. It appears he has it behind him and guess what - he's hitting well again. Funny how that works. Power is coming back, he's driving the ball to the gaps again.

Also, when they talk about have a great player you talk 5 tools. You only focus on 2 - hitting and hitting for power. There is more to being a great player than just hitting and Heyward has those skills.

For example, did you see the game the other day when he hit a single up the middle and got into scoring position for his team?

He is helping the Braves maintiin their position on top of the NL East. He's coming up big in big spots. Be mad!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 01:44 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
395. "First of all..."
In response to Reply # 392


  

          

B9, you're the one who brought up race. I said it's funny how you're willing to admit there might be an agenda in other posts but not this one. You defined the agenda, not me...

I don't understand what you don't understand. Every response is on some insulting b.s. You're a fan, I get it. No one say anything negative about anything Atlanta or suffer the lifelong frustrated posting of B9

Anyway...

The Real. I have posted BA and OPS to appease other posters such as CIA, who said I was only concerned with BA, HRs, or RBIs, or whatever. It's b.s. anyway, because this post is about his all-star selection, and I really don't think the majority of voters even look at OBP, OPS, or stats in general. They vote on name recognition. So, the question that needs to be answered is not what a 5 tool player is, or what player is helping his team (which you are making a bigger argument for other players as the Braves have a lot better players in their lineup). The question that needs to be answered is why did a rookie hitting .251 at the break get voted into the all-star game over players that I listed above. My mock ROY 10' race was just a further illustration that not only are there better OFs, but also better rookies than Heyward (by the way he hit like .240 in April)

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 01:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
397. "I never brought up race in a popularity vote context"
In response to Reply # 395


          

Stop being wishy-washy about contexts and jumping back and forth between all star voting and rookie voting.


You're a fool with a foolish agenda, but I guess it's just the majority of baseball fans and baseball writters and baseball managers and baseball scouts and baseball players that are the fools for thinking Jayson Heyward is good. It's always the lone weirdo who was right all along, huh?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 01:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
396. "On a similar note"
In response to Reply # 392


  

          

Did you see him score from first on Monday night on that single by Prado? Holy shit. There were two outs and the runners were moving, but regardless, scoring on a hard hit ball that the CF keeps in front of him the whole time like that? Wow.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11544555&query=%26game_pk%3D265767

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 02:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
398. "Guys who aren't fast but are good baserunners..."
In response to Reply # 396


          

... are the new market inefficiency.

I assume every team has some figures that occupy that category, so I wont pretend that everybody immediately thinks of Twins like I do. But Molitor taught it to Koskie and now Mauer is a pretty good slow baserunner.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 02:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
399. "I was 15 rows up behind home plate"
In response to Reply # 396


          

I don't think he even looked for a sign; at his size and the speed he cut 3rd, Thole was glad the play wasn't any closer, and the slide was perfect anyway to the back of the plate. He had a similar play in his 1st AB stretching a single without hesitation. Then last night he had a first pitch double in the 6th (?); I think they are finally telling him to be agressive both on the bases and with his ABs and this is the result. Bobby has been chirping at him to get his bat off his shoulder on 1st and 2nd ABs.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
VonClay
Charter member
21865 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 02:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
400. "I was *this* close to making a post about it the other night"
In response to Reply # 396


  

          

That was a GREAT play.

Instagram: @von_clay

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Sep-01-10 01:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
393. "I took the liberty of running some numbers on the NL rookie class too"
In response to Reply # 390
Wed Sep-01-10 01:39 PM by Call It Anything

  

          

The top 5 NL rookies listed in a couple of different categories of value based metrics. These numbers do not include yesterday's games.

VORP:

Jaime Garcia 36.8
Jason Heyward 27.7
Buster Posey 25.7
Starlin Castro 24.5
Gaby Sanchez 23.4

WS:

Jason Heyward 19.06
Gaby Sanchez 16.02
Buster Posey 14.68
Jaime Garcia 11.96
Neil Walker 11.64

WARP:

Jaime Garcia 4.4
Jason Heyward 3.8
Jose Tabata 3.2
Buster Posey 2.9
Barry Enright 2.9

WAR (FG):

Jason Heyward 3.8
Jaime Garcia 3.1
Buster Posey 2.9
Gaby Sanchez 2.6
Starlin Castro 2.2

WAR (BR):

Jaime Garcia 3.3
Jason Heyward 3.3
Barry Enright 2.3
Buster Posey 1.7
Jonathan Niese 1.7
Chris Johnson 1.7

Heyward is 1 or 2 in all of them. Garcia is 1 or 2 in 4 of 5. Posey is in the top 5 for all of them, but between 3rd and 5th.

So at the moment, it appears to be a very close call between Heyward and Garcia with Posey in good position to contend in the last month.

In doing this I realized that I overlooked how well Barry Enright has pitched since being called up. He made two starts against Washington in which I thought he was good, not great. It seems that he's more or less been good, not great in every single start so far this year. I will have to keep a closer eye on him.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Sep-02-10 08:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
401. "9/2 0/3 v Johan = LH SP"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I previously posted about Heyward conveniently sitting v LH SP, and invoked the ire of B9's frustrated poster syndrome.

In light of Heyward's recent 11 game hot streak, tonight's lack of production v a LH SP got me thinking...


9/1 Mike Pelfrey = RH, 4/4
8/31 Jonathan Niese = LH, 1/5
8/30 Mets used 5 pitchers, 2 LH, but one of those LH was Oliver Perez, 4/5
8/29 Josh Johnson = RH, 1/4, respectable
8/28 Nolasco = RH, 2/3
8/27 Volstad = RH, 2/4
8/25 Rockies use 5 pitchers, 2 LH, 2/3
8/24 De La Rosa = LH, 0/4
8/23 Hammel = RH, 3/5
8/22 Wells = RH, 4/4 the infamous OB 6/6
8/21 Gorzelanny = LH, 2/4

Then its back to 0 fors, his previous multi hit game was on July 30 (Cueto, RH)

Splits, LH = .238, RH = .309 (that's for you CIA)

Posey, Castro, and Jay all hit over .300 v LH and RH SP, Johnson hits .286 v LH SP, strange because he's RH

just saying...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Thu Sep-02-10 08:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
402. "I bet you only vote for people based on wedge issues too"
In response to Reply # 401


  

          

Well if you're old enough to vote and do vote.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Sep-02-10 08:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
404. "RE: I bet you only vote for people based on wedge issues too"
In response to Reply # 402


  

          

name recognition translates to politics too. every presidential candidate that won the presidency had the most money in his war chest...

but i think you're getting there...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Thu Sep-02-10 08:38 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
403. "Ryan Howard is a career .230 hitter against lefties."
In response to Reply # 401


          

and his OPS drops nearly 300 points. during his rookie season he hit .138 against them.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Sep-02-10 08:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
405. "RE: Ryan Howard is a career .230 hitter against lefties."
In response to Reply # 403


  

          

that discussion was like 200 posts ago, but thanks for playing...

MVP, ROY, 40HRs and 120RBIs 4 consecutive years, etc, etc, etc...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
will_5198
Charter member
63108 posts
Thu Sep-02-10 08:46 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
406. "exactly. when Howard was Heyward's age"
In response to Reply # 405


          

he couldn't hit lefties in AAA. he still can't hit them, but it doesn't mean he's not great. put Howard and Heyward against a lefty and they're the same player.

--------

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Sep-02-10 08:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
407. "RE: exactly. when Howard was Heyward's age"
In response to Reply # 406


  

          

another circular argument, just like saying because he's a black outfielder from Georgia playing for the braves and having a mediocre rookie season he's going to be the next hank aaron. so you're saying because he has minimal numbers against lefties he's going to be the next ryan howard. huh? so you have him leading the league in hrs, rbis, winning ROY, MVP, and a WS, based off of an OK rookie year. WTF?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Sep-02-10 08:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
408. "RE: exactly. when Howard was Heyward's age"
In response to Reply # 407


  

          

not to mention atlanta's leadoff hitter, infante is RH, heyward hits 2nd, followed by Prado another RH. are managers bringing in LH just to face Heyward, i doubt it. they're probably bringing in RHs to face the top of the lineup and saving LHs to face McCann.

Howard is the 4th hitter in the Phillies lineup. Utley hits in front of him, LH. are managers bringing in LHs to face Howard, bet on it...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Sep-02-10 09:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
409. "RE: exactly. when Howard was Heyward's age"
In response to Reply # 408


  

          

but in fairness, you did say career...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Thu Sep-02-10 11:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
410. "RE: 9/2 0/3 v Johan = LH SP"
In response to Reply # 401
Thu Sep-02-10 11:18 PM by Call It Anything

  

          

Because I'm neuroitc, I broke it out a little further to include relievers. From August 21st through tonight's game, Heyward is:

.316/.409/.526 in 22 PA against LHP
.600/.657/1.000 in 35 PA against RHP

Not including tonight's game he is:

.238/.335/.378 in 164 PA against LHP
.309/.421/.540 in 328 PA against RHP
(tOPS+ split of 64/119)

League average tOPS this year for left-handed batters is 92/106. This means that there is a significantly heavier platoon factor at work with Heyward compared to other left-handed hitters in the league.

That being said, left-handed hitters in the NL are .239/.313/.383 against LHP and .266/.337/.413 against RHP.

So basically, he's been a league average hitter so far against LHP and and MVP type against RHP.

Among other rookie hitters of interest:

Starlin Castro - 125/90
Buster Posey - 110/97
Chris Johnson - 61/114 (Definitely a bizarre abberation, but with only 269 PA I think it will level off eventually)
Jon Jay - 92/102
Gaby Sanchez - 131/90

It's worth noting that Sanchez has absolutely destroyed LHP to the tune of .339/.401/.554. In the same range as Heyward with RHP. Of course, lefties being what they are he's got about half of the PA that Heyward does against RHP. Perhaps in Bizarro World where LHP is the norm Zehcnas Ybag is best rookie hitter in the league.

So based on the very limited sample size (and ignoring Chris Johnson's backward line) it's fair to say that up to this point in the season one would rather have any of those of guys up against any kind of pitcher than Jason Heyward against a LHP.

Of course, it's a very small sample size and in the last two weeks, he's shown some improvement. I expect that he'll trend more toward a league average split as time goes on.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sat Sep-04-10 08:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
411. "9/4 Jose Tabata enters the race..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100902&content_id=14214764&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

good article. notice the castro reference, and heyward/posey being flashy?

9/3 Heyward 1/5 against LH SP

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Sat Sep-04-10 12:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
412. "Techincally he was 1-3 v. LHP and 0-2 v. RHP last night"
In response to Reply # 411


  

          

Tabata is something that Pirates fans should be excited about. Seen him play a few times.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Sep-05-10 06:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
413. "9/5 Starlin Castro now qualified for batting title..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

hitting .321, only good enough for 3rd place though because Carlos Gonzalez is hitting .335. Those names sound familiar. Castro's on my ROY list, and Gonzalez is on my more deserving of an all-star selection list.

Heyward managed another hit off of Josh Johnson last night, repectable...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Sep-08-10 02:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
414. "Since we've discussing batting splits I'd like to add this"
In response to Reply # 413
Wed Sep-08-10 02:48 PM by Call It Anything

  

          

I've mentioned it before, but Castro has the benefit of playing home games in a very friendly hitter's park while Heyward gets to spend the bulk of his schedule in a pitcher's park. This is very evident in their splits:

Heyward

Home - 256 PA .271/.352/.462 87 tOPS+
Away - 264 PA .299/.432/.486 113 tOPS+

Castro

Home - 240 PA .354/.414/.481 125 tOPS+
Away - 192 PA .276/.293/.389 70 tOPS+

Castro's .293 OBP on the road is bad. So bad that if he were to a full season outside of Wrigley, .293 would rank 2nd to last among qualified hitters in the NL ahead of only Carlos Lee and tied with Jeff Francouer. A .293 OBP is so bad it's .036 below Jason Heyward's OBP against LHP this year.

In fact, Jason Heyward's OPS against LHP is actually higher than Castro's OPS on the road by .017.

Using BB-Ref's neutralizing feature we can evaluate their season numbers in context, attempting to evaluate the two devoid of ballpark factors:

Heyward .294/.404/.491 33 2B 5 3B 20 HR
Castro .303/.343/.414 32 2B 5 3B 3 HR

Castro's had a great season and it's no knock on him to say that it just hasn't been as good as Heyward's. Castro's recent benching only serves to illustrate the point that I've been making for months now that there are a lot of other factors to consider aside from batting average. The Cubs have had an issue with him not running out ground balls to this point and other instances cited in an article yesterday by Gary Davis in which Castro does not appear to have his head in the game.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Sep-08-10 02:53 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
415. "RE: Since we've discussing batting splits I'd like to add this"
In response to Reply # 414


  

          

yeah, he might end up being a headcase. still, remarkable to be in contention for the batting title as a rookie, but if he's on the bench he definitely won't get enough ABs anyway...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Wed Sep-08-10 03:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
416. "The batting race in the NL has been really interestng this year"
In response to Reply # 415


  

          

Votto and Pujols were toe-to-toe for a while with a lot of other people lurking. All of the sudden, Gonzalez catches fire and is a long shot for the Triple Crown. Meanwhile Tulowitzki and Castro have become eligible and are in the mix. Infante is also lurking sitting at .339 and needing 100 PA over the last 23 games of the season to qualify without penalty (which seems achievable considering that he has 107 over his previous 23 games).

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Sep-08-10 08:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
417. "what's your take on Mike Stanton..."
In response to Reply # 416


  

          

i know he was in a major slump recently, but he had 3hrs in the first 3 games of the series against the Phillies. his swing looks like a monster...

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Fri Sep-10-10 10:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
418. "RE: what's your take on Mike Stanton..."
In response to Reply # 417


  

          

He's got about as much power as I can remember from a 20 year-old. In terms of development and skill set he kind of reminds me of that mid-90s Sammy Sosa (pre-98). Power for days, strikes out a lot, athletic OF who can run well.

He's sitting at a .265 ISO and 18 HR currently. If he can hold over .250 and hit 2 more HRs, he's in good company.

Hitters in the last 30 years who in their first seaon had an ISO over .250 and at least 20 HRs:

Darryl Strawberry (Age 21) - 1983
Kevin Maas (Age 25) - 1990
Jose Cruz (Age 23) - 1997
Albert Pujols (Age ??) - 2001
Ryan Braun (Age 23) - 2007
Evan Longoria (Age 22) - 2010

20 year olds aren't supposed to hit balls that well. Historically, the only 20 year olds who have done that are:

Mel Ott
Ted Williams
Frank Robinson
Bob Horner
Alex Rodriguez

When you add that to the 88 HRs that he hit in the minors the last two and a quarter years and the 6'5" body that seems to still be filling out I think that if he has the potential to be the best HR hitter in baseball from about 2012-2018.

That being said he's still got some issues to work out. He's currently striking out in 35% of his ABs. That's Reynolds/Dunn/Howard territory and right now he's not good enough to be doing that.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Fri Sep-10-10 10:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
419. "RE: what's your take on Mike Stanton..."
In response to Reply # 418


          

>Darryl Strawberry (Age 21) - 1983

If we can overlook handedness, I kind of prefer this as a crazyfuntime comp to Stanton than Sosa. Stanton's contact problems aside, his walk rate looks a bit more young Strawberry than Sosa, at least until Sosa started popping 60 a year. Plus there's the 6'5"-ness. Young Strawberry had a more thorough speed game, but we're living in a time where, sadly for the sake of wacky experimentation, the Marlins aren't going to greenlight Stanton on the bases 45 times a year just to answer a question on the internet.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Fri Sep-10-10 11:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
420. "RE: what's your take on Mike Stanton..."
In response to Reply # 419
Fri Sep-10-10 11:20 AM by Call It Anything

  

          

>>Darryl Strawberry (Age 21) - 1983
>
>If we can overlook handedness, I kind of prefer this as a
>crazyfuntime comp to Stanton than Sosa. Stanton's contact
>problems aside, his walk rate looks a bit more young
>Strawberry than Sosa, at least until Sosa started popping 60 a
>year. Plus there's the 6'5"-ness. Young Strawberry had a
>more thorough speed game, but we're living in a time where,
>sadly for the sake of wacky experimentation, the Marlins
>aren't going to greenlight Stanton on the bases 45 times a
>year just to answer a question on the internet.

Strawberry seems fair. He certainly had a more similar pedigree than Stanton relative to Sosa. Looking at it a little closer, he might be a more athletic 2004 Wily Mo Pena. Physically-imposing young power-hitting OFs with luke warm discipline who strike out a ton but scouts dream on their potential. Of course those two poles leave a tremendously wide birth for the trajectory of Stanton career.

I've been thoroughly impressed by Stanton's athleticism when I've seen him in person. Looking at the way his power numbers have stayed through A, A+, AA and into the Majors, I expect him to hit 30+ next year with no problem. I think the fact that 4 of his 18 this year have been to the opposite field bodes well. Not to mention the 18 2B in 68 base hits, which suggest future gains based on the Walleye Theorem of Young Guys Who Hit 2Bs.

I'm wonderng what kind of stadium they'll build in Miami. A favorable park might go a long way towards helping him accumulate some big numbers.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Fri Sep-10-10 11:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
421. "Now you're just being all responsible"
In response to Reply # 420


          

>Of course those two poles leave a tremendously wide
>birth for the trajectory of Stanton career.

Which is probably the exactly correct stance to take with regards to a 20 year old outfielder. You've taken us to the unfortunate cross purposes of the internet. On one hand, you're publicly right, which is pretty much objective #1 in internet sports discussion. On the other, acknowledging the reality that somebody with impressive athleticism for their size and huge pop could very well go Willy Mo Pena violates the spirit of encouraging irresponsible speculation that brought us all here in the first place.

>I've been thoroughly impressed by Stanton's athleticism when
>I've seen him in person. Looking at the way his power numbers
>have stayed through A, A+, AA and into the Majors, I expect
>him to hit 30+ next year with no problem. I think the fact
>that 4 of his 18 this year have been to the opposite field
>bodes well. Not to mention the 18 2B in 68 base hits, which
>suggest future gains based on the Walleye Theorem of Young
>Guys Who Hit 2Bs.

Hittrackeronline.com is in my doghouse right now for their big buzzkill on Thome's blast the other day, but I'll use them in this case. Stanton has appeared in only 78 games and leads the Marlins in "no doubt" homeruns. I was actually more impressed with his homer off of Contreras earlier this week than the one off of Oswalt because the former looked like it was barely mid-outfield until it just kept on going. There's a fellow who posts on a Twins board I read that rants constantly about the need for "easy velocity", a term I grow increasingly uncomfortable with with so many amateur mechanics analysts on the internet decreasing the signal-to-noise ratio. But easy power is less complicated to spot and Stanton is pretty much it.

And though I am nowhere near the first person to suggest that young fellow doubles turn into veteran fellow homers, I will gladly take credit for the theorum. In the spirit of the internet.

>I'm wonderng what kind of stadium they'll build in Miami. A
>favorable park might go a long way towards helping him
>accumulate some big numbers.

Or if the franchise ends up somewhere else. Like Las Vegas, where Chin-lung Hu managed to slug .500.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Sep-13-10 08:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
424. "20 HRs in two hundred ninety something ABs..."
In response to Reply # 421


  

          

that's a little more than half of Heyward's four hundred fifty something ABs, and he has 17 HRs. Stanton's .529 SLG would have him 7th in the league (if he had more ABs to qualify). He also had 21 HRs in the minors before being called up...

will the real next Hank Aaron please stand up!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Tue Sep-06-11 05:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
445. "RE: what's your take on Mike Stanton..."
In response to Reply # 420


  

          

>I've been thoroughly impressed by Stanton's athleticism when
>I've seen him in person. Looking at the way his power numbers
>have stayed through A, A+, AA and into the Majors, I expect
>him to hit 30+ next year with no problem. I think the fact
>that 4 of his 18 this year have been to the opposite field
>bodes well.

I just wanted to pat myself on the back for this not very hard to call prediction. Stanton has 32 HR in 132 games this year and could flirt with 40. Nobody this young has had this kind of pop since Bob Horner.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

drugs
Charter member
9149 posts
Sun Sep-12-10 09:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
422. "where ya at"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

jasons well on his way to become the ROY.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Sun Sep-12-10 10:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
423. "so it looks like an L for my not finishing in the top 5..."
In response to Reply # 422


  

          

for the ROY 10' race. He's put together what will probably be 2 great months at the plate. He's a strong 3rd behind Garcia and Posey.

However, with Carlos Gonzalez in the triple crown race (whatever your opinions are on coors field aside) and the seasons that Matt Holliday, Marlon Byrd, Jayson Werth, (previously listed)were having at the break and continued through today...I am still baffled at how a rookie hitting .251 at the all-star break is 2nd in all-star voting for OFs. Only Andre Ethier (I think he only got like 30,000 more votes than Heyward) got more votes than Heyward, who hit .240 in April, had a hot May, and then hit .181 in June (due to injury or otherwise).

I can admit he deserves to be in the ROY conversation, why can't anyone admit that the reason he got all those all-star votes was due to the media attention and not actual performance? Projecting him to be ROY is one thing, its another to actually do it, which it didn't look like he was at the break. He could of just as easily got hurt and not finished the season, i.e. Strasburg. You can't even admit that Atlanta residents don't care about the Braves...traffic

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Mon Sep-13-10 10:26 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
425. "Heyward's Race for .400 (Swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/6618/jason-heywards-chase-for-400

Jason Heyward's ability both to drive the ball and to take a walk have led to an on-base percentage that few his age have been able to achieve.

Albert Pujols’ Triple Crown hopes seem rather grim at this stage after a recent slump dropped him far off the batting average lead.

But there’s another chase with some historical appeal in ESPN’s Sunday Night Baseball game -- Jason Heyward's attempt to join the .400 club.

Even though the Atlanta Braves rightfielder turned 21 a month ago, for statistical purposes, websites such as Baseball-Reference.com and baseball historians still treat this as his “age 20 season.”
Highest OBP Since 1900
"Age 20 or Younger Season"

Mel Ott 1929 .449
Ted Williams 1939 .436
Al Kaline 1955 .421
Jimmie Foxx 1928 .416
Alex Rodriguez 1996 .414
Mel Ott 1928 .397
Mickey Mantle 1954 .392
Ty Cobb 1907 .380
Frank Robinson 1956 .379
Arky Vaughan 1932 .375
>> Jason Heyward: .395 OBP


With that in mind, there is one list regarding performance in an “age 20 or younger season” that rates the most elite: The group of players who have had the top 10 seasons in terms of on-base percentage in the modern era (since 1900), among those who played enough to qualify for the batting title.

The list is in the chart to your right. It features nine Hall of Famers and Alex Rodriguez.

Do any other sort of list of “age 20” performance and it’s filled with great names. But on-base percentage is tops in being most inclusive of the game’s all-time greats.

Heyward is poised not only to join that list, but to land in the uppermost levels -- with the five major leaguers who have managed an on-base percentage of .400 at that age.

After Heyward’s home run and two walks in six plate appearances in the Braves extra-inning win over the Cardinals on Saturday, his on-base percentage now stands at .395.

One of the key reasons for that is Heyward’s walk rate, something that Baseball Tonight’s analysts said when the season started would be a key indicator of his success.

Heyward is currently drawing unintentional walks a little more than 13 percent of the time, or about once every seven to eight times he comes to bat. That’s an astounding rate, one only surpassed twice since 1900 -- by baseball legends Mel Ott and Ted Williams.

Heyward has spent much of the latter part of the season beefing up his statistical case for NL Rookie of the Year honors, for which he’s battling the likes of San Francisco Giants catcher/first baseman Buster Posey.

Since the All-Star Break, Heyward’s on-base percentage is an NL-best .432. Since Aug. 21, it’s significantly better than that -- .520. Yes, in his last 100 plate appearances, Heyward has reached base 52 times. A 3-of-6 on Saturday actually brought that number down a tick.

In June, Heyward hit just .190 and got into a habit of chasing both fastballs and breaking balls out of the strike zone, regardless of whether they came from a lefty or righty. That bad habit has been totally eradicated.

His performance against lefthanders has been statistically above-average by major league standards (an on-base percentage of .344, 32 points above the MLB average for lefties), impressive considering his age. That’s mainly been due to his ability to hang in at a reasonable statistical rate against breaking pitches. And nowadays, when Heyward sees a fastball he mauls it.

Here’s how good Heyward has been: Entering Saturday, our Inside Edge video tracking service charted him as having seen 134 fastballs in September. He had 12 base hits on those pitches, and had only swung and missed once. Thus, no one should have been surprised when he homered off a fastball from Cardinals lefty Dennys Reyes to tie the game in the seventh inning.

Kyle Lohse and his 7.13 ERA have the good fortune of facing Heyward Sunday night. The first time they met, on April 26, Lohse got him out all three times. That was against a Heyward who was 19 games into his big league career, and in the midst of a seven-game stretch in which he went 1-for-20. This version of Heyward is far removed and far improved from that one.

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Sep-15-10 05:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
426. "And that was posted on ESPN..."
In response to Reply # 425


  

          

surprise, surprise. we already knew he was going to be an OBP machine. i think i said that in my 2nd or 3rd reply. he got passed up in the draft because he wouldn't swing the bat and some teams balked so he fell to the braves...

they wouldn't do an all-out media campaign in an effort to move him up in the ROY voting, would they???

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Sep-16-10 06:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
427. "Looks like my only hope is Buster Posey..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Jaime Garcia might be shut down since the Cards folded

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_9b928562-c1c4-11df-a1b6-00127992bc8b.html

Go Giants!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Oct-01-10 09:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
428. "For NL ROY, go with Buster Posey"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Oct-01-10 09:18 AM by bentagain

  

          

Just in case you thought I forgot...

"Ten years from now, we might say that the 2010 National League rookie class was the best to ever enter the game.

Consider this: Gaby Sanchez, Tyler Colvin, Chris Johnson, Starlin Castro, Neil Walker, Pedro Alvarez, Jose Tabata, and Ike Davis all made fine debuts as hitters.

Jaime Garcia, Jhoulys Chacin, Madison Bumgarner, Hisanori Takahashi, Mike Leake, Barry Enright and Dan Hudson have all had solid rookie seasons on the mound.

We haven't even mentioned Stephen Strasburg or Aroldis Chapman yet; John Axford looks like a legit relief pitcher for the Milwaukee Brewers, and Mike Stanton has 20 homers in 361 plate appearances for the Florida Marlins.

However, the 2010 NL ROY race is going to come down to two guys: Jason Heyward and Buster Posey. Let's break that one down.

If the NL ROY was defined simply as the "most valuable rookie," the award should go to the Atlanta Braves' star. Both Heyward and Posey have similar production -- a .381 wOBA for Heyward against a .380 wOBA for Posey, for example. Posey plays the more difficult position and plays it well, but that advantage is negated and more by the large gap in playing time. Heyward has been in the major leagues for the entire season, outside of some missed time due to injury, and as such he has 586 plate appearances to Posey's 409. It's this gap that accounts for Heyward's lead in wins above replacement (4.5 to 4.0), and it's unlikely (although not impossible) that Posey can close that gap in the last two weeks of the season.

However, if we treat the award as a "most outstanding rookie" type of award -- like the Cy Young award in its current form -- we may come to a different conclusion. This plate appearance gap which separates Posey and Heyward can be saddled completely on Brian Sabean, general manager of the San Francisco Giants. Sabean was content to hand Bengie Molina $4.5 million for the 2010 season and let him start games behind the plate while banishing Posey to Triple-A Fresno due to concerns over Posey's defense.

That didn't work out too well for the Giants, as Molina hit a paltry .257/.312/.332 while Posey tore up Triple-A to a line of .349/.442/.552. When the Giants called up Posey, they were scoring only 4.25 runs per game and despite a solid 26-22 start -- mostly due to their pitching -- they were still 2½ games behind the San Diego Padres.

The Braves had decided to go for the postseason from the outset of Bobby Cox's final season, and knew that they would be best served with a hitter like Heyward in their lineup. Without Heyward, it's hard to imagine that the Braves would even be sniffing the pennant race; with him, they are a half game behind the Padres for the wild card.

Let's take a look at the performances of these two outstanding rookies outside of the playing time factor.

As mentioned above, both are extremely similar hitters. Heyward has more walks (14.5 walk percentage vs. Posey's 6.5) and therefore a higher on-base percentage. Posey has fewer strikeouts (13 percent of PAs vs. Heyward's 20.5 percent), and therefore has the higher batting average, and due to their similar power profiles, the higher slugging percentage as well. Overall, it evens out: Both players have performed roughly 40 percent better than the average MLB hitter.

Then, it comes down to the value in the field. Heyward is, by most accounts, a fantastic right fielder both in terms of range and arm. Ultimate zone rating (UZR) rates him as only one run better than the average right fielder, but Baseball Info Solutions' defensive runs saved (DRS) rates him as 12 runs better, a radical difference. Regardless, it's certainly fair to call Heyward an above-average right fielder, even if the magnitude is in question. That makes him a slightly below-average defensive value, as right field is one of the easiest positions to play. Posey, on the other hand, plays the toughest position by far, and he has played it quite well thus far; DRS rates him as four runs better than the average catcher as far as allowing stolen bases, and on top of that, he has only one passed ball the entire season.

Break it down this way, then: Heyward and Posey are similar offensively, but the latter plays a much tougher position and plays it very well; the gap in time difference isn't something he could have controlled. Overall, Posey is the most valuable NL rookie of 2010"

With the NL West all but clinched (magic number = 1), looks like a lock for Posey.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Nov-15-10 02:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
429. "RE: Jason Heyward an all-star...WTF"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

???

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Mar-16-11 11:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
430. "And so it begins...The 11' Jason Heyward watch"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/14/stop-me-if-youve-heard-this-but-jason-heyward-is-banged-up-again/

Stop me if you’ve heard this, but Jason Heyward is banged up again
Craig Calcaterra
Mar 14, 2011, 3:00 PM EDT
18 Comments Jason Heyward was held out of today’s game due to back stiffness. A week or so ago he missed action because tightness in his hamstring. In the first week of March he missed action because of a sore groin.

None of this is serious, but as an official member of the Jason Heyward is So Totally Dreamy Club, I am concerned about his durability. He was probably only physically right for a month or two early last season and battled injuries the rest of the way. In spring this year he’s been shown to be susceptible to a lot of bumps, bruises, owies and other stuff that, while falling short of any real injuries, are troublesome. I’m heartened by memories of guys like Paul Molitor who were hampered by injuries early on but for whom it all evened out later. But I’m also kind of freaked that he’ll just never be completely healthy.

Phillies and Mets fans who wish to comfort me in my time of sorry may feel free to leave their kind thoughts in the comments. Your concern for my team’s well being is almost palpable.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Wed Mar-16-11 11:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
431. "so how are you morphing one of the worst agendas now?"
In response to Reply # 430


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Mar-16-11 11:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
432. "Should be an interesting year"
In response to Reply # 431


  

          

hope you enjoyed the off-season

just to get everyone up to speed, a list of players who made an impact last year, from post #428

Gaby Sanchez,
Tyler Colvin,
Chris Johnson,
Starlin Castro,
Neil Walker,
Pedro Alvarez,
Jose Tabata,
Ike Davis
Jaime Garcia,
Jhoulys Chacin,
Madison Bumgarner,
Hisanori Takahashi,
Mike Leake,
Barry Enright
Dan Hudson
Stephen Strasburg
Aroldis Chapman
John Axford
Mike Stanton
Jason Heyward
Buster Posey

and my favorite Johnny Venters (>>> Jason Heyward)

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Thu Mar-17-11 07:52 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
433. "I admire your persistence on this matter"
In response to Reply # 432


  

          

It's worth mentioning that when he did get in he was 10/24 with 4 BB. Only 2 2B and no HRs. It's a small enough sample size to which you can't say much more than he was seeing the ball well this spring.

However, the power stroke that he displayed in April/May seemed to fade. It's easy to attribute that to the thumb issue, but I'm curious to see if that carries over. I know that wrist injuries have a way of sapping power for an extended period, I imagine a thumb would have that same potential.

The issue with his lack of back cartilage is one of the stranger explanations that I've heard in a while.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Mar-17-11 08:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
434. "The issue with his lack of back cartilage"
In response to Reply # 433
Thu Mar-17-11 08:44 AM by bentagain

  

          

"is one of the stranger explanations that I've heard in a while"

Yeah that story really peaked my interest. After some snide remarks about the Strasburg injury, kind of ironic, this kid has a thumb injury, followed by a groin injury, and now some type of degenerative back condition.

Having had knee surger myself, the lack of cartilage is more of a pain management situation. But I'm not sure what this issue calls for, I've honestly never heard it before. Yoga, gel injections, cortizone, ???

What are the odds that Strasburg has a better career than this kid in the long run? I'm really hyped for this season to start

MLBTR has the Phils interested in Jon Jay, whom I forgot to add to the list of impact rookies in 10' to watch in 11'

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Thu Mar-31-11 12:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
435. "The thread that keeps on giving "
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Thu Mar-31-11 12:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
436. "No joke, I now call Heyward 'The Agenda' because of this post."
In response to Reply # 435


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Mar-31-11 03:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
437. "He's on pace to hit 162 HRs this year"
In response to Reply # 436


  

          

he must be the next Hank Aaron...

still waiting on that quote B9

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Thu Mar-31-11 03:24 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
438. "Why do you need any sort of proof in this shitty post still? "
In response to Reply # 437


          

I'm damned sure not going to go searching DOB's blog just to provide one more unnecessary piece of information to prove how horrible this thread and your opinion (whatever it is now) is. This is one of those all-time sorts of failed agendas...in life.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Thu Mar-31-11 03:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
439. "Every time I see this post I'm reminded of this..."
In response to Reply # 438


  

          

http://www.theonion.com/articles/gore-delivers-emergency-presidential-address-into,198/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
B9
Charter member
43124 posts
Thu Mar-31-11 03:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
440. "'Tilting at windmills' works, too"
In response to Reply # 439


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Sep-05-11 05:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
441. "Matt Diaz"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
cantball
Charter member
46630 posts
Mon Sep-05-11 10:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
442. "John Jaha Jr"
In response to Reply # 441


  

          


____________________

Plushdamentals mean winning

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Sep-06-11 10:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
446. "Constanza"
In response to Reply # 441


  

          

http://www.hattricksilkies.com/116450033_4266fb5229_o.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Tue Sep-06-11 12:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
443. "This remains the oddest agenda in OKS"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 12:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
447. "The Jay Hey Kid"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/29551/jason-heyward

no bueno

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
cantball
Charter member
46630 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 01:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
448. "^^^^^^^^^^^^^^TALKING ABOUT IT"
In response to Reply # 447


  

          


____________________

Plushdamentals mean winning

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 04:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
449. "Hasn't even played 300 career games yet and is 22 years old"
In response to Reply # 447


  

          

Who was 2 years ahead of schedule. I'd hardly write him off.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 06:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
450. "^^^ Pleas Copped"
In response to Reply # 449


  

          

This whole post is one BIG PLEA COP

I was calling attention to an undeserved selection to the All-Star game in his rookie year (which at that point consisted of a career BA of .251), to which I offered 2 logical explainations

The media campaign...

MLB Network commercials = Jason Heyward and the Braves (already posted)
That Sportscenter commercial where he's talking about the wood to make his bat...I saw that shit in Canada (already posted about Sportscenter too)

MLB trying to find the next African-American superstar to try and gain more of the urban demographic with the recent exits of Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey Jr

But ya'll repeatedly defended this kid with an infinite number of pleas

Being compared to 2 of the GOAT before he ever played a game...

The Jay Hey Kid...c'mon son
Supposedly there's a quote by Hank Aaron where he calls him the next Hammer, or something like that, to tell the truth, I have no idea what he said because I still haven't seen the quote


But instead I'm accused of being racist
Not knowing anything about baseball, because according to you his slump last year was due to a wrist injury <----- PLEA COP, that was over a year ago...

and now you come with

"Hasn't even played 300 career games yet and is 22 years old. Who was 2 years ahead of schedule" <----- PLEA COP

which I already suggested that they brought him up too quick, to which your boy already retorted he wasn't learning anything in the minors because he was killin minor league pitchin

GTFOH

" I'd hardly write him off. "

I already said I thought he was good
He still has plenty of time to salvage his career
He might even be able to put numbers up comparable to Ron Gant or David Justice
But Willie Mays, Hank Aaron he ain't, and he shouldn't have been anywhere near the all-star game last year

MAD?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66340 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 06:38 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
451. "Salvage his [2 year] career?"
In response to Reply # 450


  

          


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
cantball
Charter member
46630 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 10:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
452. "He was overrated and is basically the 3rd Upton brother"
In response to Reply # 451
Thu Sep-29-11 10:22 PM by cantball

  

          

AT BEST
____________________

Plushdamentals mean winning

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Thu Sep-29-11 11:28 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
453. "Am I missing something? The Upton brothers are both good. "
In response to Reply # 452


  

          


?




----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
cantball
Charter member
46630 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 05:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
454. "BJ's good now?"
In response to Reply # 453


  

          


____________________

Plushdamentals mean winning

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Call It Anything
Member since Aug 13th 2005
10951 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 07:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
455. "If you trust the metrics, yes"
In response to Reply # 454


  

          

From 2007 through 2011 he ranks 8th in rWAR and 9th in fWAR among all major league OFs. His hitting is inconsistent but he's fast, walks a decent amount, and plays a great CF. Done a pretty good job of staying healthy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
cantball
Charter member
46630 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 07:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
456. "I'd say he's a middle class man's Carlos Gomez"
In response to Reply # 455


  

          

I really don't trust rWAR or fWAR due to this article: http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/11/29/1839730/are-fwar-and-rwar-on-different-scales.


But beyond that,he's not what he was supposed to be,as even his defensive WAR is middle of the pack in the AL.He should be better,but honestly,I'd rather have about 10 or so CF's in the League right now.He's average,and if you are truly counting on his bat,you won't go far
____________________

Plushdamentals mean winning

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 08:13 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
458. "I think you're undervaluing him on two fronts here"
In response to Reply # 456
Fri Sep-30-11 08:19 AM by Walleye

          

>I really don't trust rWAR or fWAR due to this article:
>http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/11/29/1839730/are-fwar-and-rwar-on-different-scales.

That's a reasonable mistrust, but since nobody's asking you to lean on any of the WAR constructions wholly you're essentially throwing the baby out with the bathwater in order to compare Upton to a guy with nearly 1700 plate appearances with a lifetime OBA of .291. Knee successfully jerked. Gomez needs every ounce of his often-magnificent glove to avoid having to fight for a contract with the Newark Bears. Upton strikes out too much. That's literal leagues of difference.

edit: I also don't really think the problems that article discusses should keep us from using either/both of those tools to compare Upton to himself or his peers.

>He should be better,but honestly,I'd rather have about 10 or so CF's in >the League right now.

Sure, but that's a pretty compressed group. I would have rather had 10 centerfielders at the end of last season than Kemp and Ellsbury and all that would have gotten me in 2011 was Denard Span's head trauma. He's got the glove and a durable offensive ability (his walks) to give me 2.5-4 wins annually and he just turned 27. The chances that he jumps to the one centerfielder that you want in any given year between now and, say, 2015 are pretty strong and he'll be solid in the meantime at a valuable position.

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
Walleye
Charter member
15521 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 07:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
457. "Pretty much"
In response to Reply # 454


          

You know how teams are really happy when they find a centerfielder who gets to everything and offers some bit of offensive utility? Since you've got Nyjer Morgan in your avatar, I'm suspecting this is familiar.

Upton is like that, except he draws walks in 10% of his plate appearances, can hit for extra bases sixty times a year, and steals a lot of bases at a solid rate. A floor of, like, Drew Stubbs and a ceiling that hosts the very real possibility that if he grabs some lucky base hits and boosts his average that he'll look like an MVP (like in 2007 if he'd been on the field a bit more) is something we can call somewhere between "good" and "great".

______________________________

"Walleye, a lot of things are going to go wrong in your life that technically aren't your fault. Always remember that this doesn't make you any less of an idiot"

--Walleye's Dad

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
Orbit_Established
Member since Oct 27th 2002
52934 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 08:17 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
459. "*DEAD* @ This QUIET MAGMA"
In response to Reply # 457
Fri Sep-30-11 08:56 AM by Orbit_Established

  

          

>Since you've got Nyjer Morgan in your
>avatar, I'm suspecting this is familiar.

GODDAMN WALLEYE!!!


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 08:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
460. "yeah Salvage"
In response to Reply # 451


  

          

2 years is a small sample size, given, so there is an ample amount of time for him to reverse the trends displayed in his first 2 seasons

when comparing both seasons side by side

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/29551/year/2010/jason-heyward

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/29551/jason-heyward

it's evident that he gets off to a good start, starts to decline, and by mid season he's not playing at all

after the mid season DNPs, he starts to look good again, but by season's end he's back to nothing at all, which was magnified this year by being benched for most of the stretch run for the likes of Diaz and Constanza

can his body handle a full major league season?

how long do the Braves trust this kid with the RF duties, before they explore more permanent solutions?

how many seasons at this performance level before he gets sent down to the minors?

he has plenty of time to turn it around though

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
The Real
Charter member
14041 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 08:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
461. "Pleas Copped? Not really "
In response to Reply # 450


  

          

I have no dog in this fight I just think your agenda is stupid at best.

I just find it amusing you're so upset Heyward is getting hype. He's hardly the first athlete to be over-hyped in the 24 hour news cycle; or the first athlete to be over-hyped that is a physical freak and doesn't have a proven track record yet.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


XBox 360 Live gamertag - Keystonejenks

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Sep-30-11 09:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
462. "yeah Pleas Copped. really "
In response to Reply # 461


  

          

"He's hardly the first athlete to be over-hyped in the 24 hour news cycle; or the first athlete to be over-hyped that is a physical freak and doesn't have a proven track record yet."

over-hyped = the back peddle

that was my agenda
he was over-hyped to the point where fans voted him in to the all-star game over guys with proven track records like...

Braun
Holliday
Byrd
Cargo
Pence
McCutchen
etc...

can you see it now?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Lobby Okay Sports Okay Sports Archives topic #82180 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com