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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 01:36 PM

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"Football Outsiders points out the obvious about Snyder's 2010 R*dskins"


  

          

They will be better this year, and worse in the long run.

Highlights from their 2010 Almanac season preview:

* But the Redskins havent built a true contender. Theyve built another version of their 2005 team, which went 10-6 in Gibbs second season.

* The 2010 Redskins have even worse long-range prospects than their 2005 counterparts, who at least surrounded Brunell with a young group of offensive weapons, had a pair of bookend offensive tackles in their prime, and possessed a few other assets. This years Redskins have an alarming number of players who are about to simultaneously grow old, and thats not even counting lunatic acquisitions like Galloway.

* ...Some in the Redskins organization will feel vindicated when the team loses in the second round of the playoffs. Snyder and others will convince themselves that they made all the right moves. Allen could win Executive of the Year if he takes the team from four wins to ten. There will be a lot of backslapping for a very small accomplishment. And of course, that will only encourage Snyder and company to climb back on the horse.

Full text below.

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Full text
Jul 26th 2010
1
This article is stupid
Jul 26th 2010
2
you didn't read it.
Jul 26th 2010
3
Really?!? Damn I could of sworn I did
Jul 26th 2010
4
They didn't mention their salaries
Jul 26th 2010
5
      Where are those guys going to come from?
Jul 26th 2010
7
           The author said they would be better with those moves... in 2010
Jul 26th 2010
8
                Please
Jul 26th 2010
11
                     Another off season of almost no steps to rebuild the oldest roster
Jul 26th 2010
14
                     Tell me what they should have done
Jul 26th 2010
15
                          trading two good picks for a 33 y.o. QB wasn't a good move
Jul 26th 2010
18
                               you are just wrong
Jul 26th 2010
20
                               We are not going to contend in the next 3 years. Period.
Jul 26th 2010
26
                               vets? So you'd rather have Delhomme or Bulger?
Jul 26th 2010
24
                                    I want to suck with young players who might develop
Jul 26th 2010
28
                                         the Patriots won three Super Bowls with washed up bammas
Jul 26th 2010
32
                                         the Patriots HOARD draft picks
Jul 26th 2010
35
                                         ok sure, read up on their history dude come on
Jul 26th 2010
39
                                              I mean really!
Jul 26th 2010
43
                                              smuts is so fucking debbie downer nothing will make him happy
Jul 27th 2010
104
                                         Yeah that doesn't help your arguement, especially when you
Jul 26th 2010
38
                                         it does actually, Smuts has a hard on for youth
Jul 26th 2010
40
                                              baby steps man
Jul 26th 2010
41
                                                   Let's not have the oldest roster in the NFL huh?
Jul 26th 2010
42
                                         washed up bammas?
Jul 26th 2010
47
                                              I'm not sure these guys have ever watched a Pats game
Jul 27th 2010
56
                                         Our last 2 Super Bowl quarterback were gone within 2 years
Jul 27th 2010
111
                                              I'm not sure that's helpful in evaluating our team now, in this era
Jul 27th 2010
112
                     Brown = Randy Thomas
Jul 26th 2010
16
                          We can't afford to go 4-12 and take our lumps
Jul 26th 2010
17
                          Don't you realize that's a compliment?
Jul 26th 2010
19
                          Randy Thomas didn't help us win.
Jul 27th 2010
58
                          god damn you are so way totally wrong like as if!
Jul 26th 2010
23
lol
Jul 26th 2010
6
Shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather
Jul 26th 2010
9
THIS TIME his crazy plan is going to work
Jul 26th 2010
10
Lol @ Washington making the 2nd round
Jul 26th 2010
12
On this I agree....
Jul 26th 2010
13
props to PHABEL in this post
Jul 26th 2010
21
wherein I reveal my true opinion of Dan Snyder
Jul 26th 2010
22
So basically what you are saying is Dan Snyder can do no wrong
Jul 26th 2010
25
did I say that?
Jul 26th 2010
29
The record speaks for itself. I shit on Snyder because his teams suck.
Jul 26th 2010
33
Smuts is right about Dan Snyder and it seems like some of
Jul 26th 2010
27
let me look at the Lions schedule right quick
Jul 26th 2010
30
ok I'll bet 25 bucks that you're wrong.
Jul 26th 2010
31
      Just $25? Cmon now Washington is your team and you have McNabb
Jul 26th 2010
34
           man I just bought a car and this is still just sports
Jul 26th 2010
36
                Let's make a deal, $25 it is
Jul 26th 2010
37
i'll take that Lions bet for $50
Jul 27th 2010
106
      You got it
Jul 27th 2010
107
           this applies to this season, yeah?
Jul 27th 2010
109
                Yeah just the season
Jul 27th 2010
110
Going from 30 year olds to slightly younger 30 y.o.'s isn't significant.
Jul 26th 2010
44
First of all... Bruce Allen is the GM...not Shanahan....
Jul 26th 2010
45
^just called joey galloway a leader
Jul 26th 2010
48
On the Redskins?
Jul 26th 2010
49
      just like there's a reason he didn't last in either place?
Jul 26th 2010
50
           Yeah he is 38 years old
Jul 27th 2010
62
^^^cosign
Jul 27th 2010
53
there has always been activity to be excited in the offseason
Jul 27th 2010
57
Your defense of the Galloway & Holliday moves are admirable
Jul 27th 2010
59
      Damn you are fucking stupid
Jul 27th 2010
61
      LOL, F-ck kinda GM doesn't hire his own coach?
Jul 27th 2010
63
      i wouldn't be surprised if this same convo happens in skins hq all the t...
Jul 27th 2010
65
      slim, Shanny is the VP of Personnel.
Jul 27th 2010
68
      it's two picks....*shrug*...didn't exactly ruin things longterm
Jul 27th 2010
66
           it's been a decade's worth of early round picks
Jul 27th 2010
67
                i think you're zeroing in on the wrong trend
Jul 27th 2010
69
                     identity is a good point
Jul 27th 2010
70
                          granted, but you can only get wack qbs like kolb in the second
Jul 27th 2010
71
wow, your fandom must be really fun
Jul 27th 2010
80
      Sleep easy my friend.
Jul 27th 2010
81
side note: i don't get my copy of FO Annual for another 1.5 weeks
Jul 26th 2010
46
PDF my friend.
Jul 27th 2010
54
      i'm not reading a pdf for 800 pages
Jul 27th 2010
72
           I don't read the whole thing
Jul 27th 2010
73
                i do
Jul 27th 2010
76
I thought this season was about trying to turn the mindset around.
Jul 27th 2010
51
which is why its hard to think Shanahan is gonna turn them around for re...
Jul 27th 2010
52
except we traded two valuable picks for McNabb, an old QB
Jul 27th 2010
55
don't forget bringing in a coach known for pulling rbs out his ass
Jul 27th 2010
60
Which makes my point exactly
Jul 27th 2010
87
      why sign them at all? why waste roster space instead of trying out youth...
Jul 27th 2010
88
           Name names....
Jul 27th 2010
89
                pierre thomas, ryan grant, justin forsett...
Jul 27th 2010
91
And no, I didn't expect anything else.
Jul 27th 2010
64
No matter what we did Smuts was making this post
Jul 27th 2010
74
      synder's cuban without the interesting and smuts is generally reasonable
Jul 27th 2010
77
      just said this
Jul 27th 2010
78
If the Skins won the Superbowl, some of you mfs would complain
Jul 27th 2010
75
RE: If the Skins won the Superbowl, some of you mfs would complain
Jul 27th 2010
79
      these people have a memory exactly 12 months long.
Jul 27th 2010
82
           And you are literally retarded
Jul 27th 2010
83
           *blinks*
Jul 27th 2010
84
                lol
Jul 27th 2010
86
           but you act like guarded optimism...
Jul 27th 2010
85
                On the flip side
Jul 27th 2010
90
                     Smuts just give up you can't win
Jul 27th 2010
92
                     you can mock people for being optimistic
Jul 27th 2010
93
                     I mocked people?
Jul 27th 2010
97
                     "are we in the same universe?"
Jul 27th 2010
100
                     c'mon, I have specific opinions, they just never match Snyder's
Jul 27th 2010
102
                          you just said they "never" match Snyder's
Jul 27th 2010
105
                               Apologies for mis-speaking
Jul 27th 2010
108
                     RE: On the flip side
Jul 27th 2010
94
                     evidently, hope that they fail
Jul 27th 2010
95
                     RE: On the flip side
Jul 27th 2010
96
                     Not you, TigerWoods
Jul 27th 2010
99
                          question: have the redskins made a positive move in the 2010 offseason?
Jul 27th 2010
101
                          Absolutely
Jul 27th 2010
103
                               Uh...ok. These are all sweeping organizational changes that will
Jul 27th 2010
115
                                    Uh, ok.
Jul 27th 2010
116
                          but dude I'm pretty sure I pointed out the flaws too no?
Jul 27th 2010
118
                     But no one ever said that Snyder changed
Jul 27th 2010
98
oh shut the fuck up, eeyore.
Jul 27th 2010
113
lol
Jul 27th 2010
114
And I thought Philly fans were debbie downers
Jul 27th 2010
117

smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 01:36 PM

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1. "Full text"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

For a few months, the addiction cycle seemed to be broken. It appeared that the Redskins were finally clean.

The Redskins have been the NFLs unrepentant junkies for over a decade. They pursue quick fixes every offseason, enjoying a brief, expensive rush as they inject highpriced free agents and big-name trade acquisitions straight into their lineup. By December, they are almost always strung out, their roster bloated with over-thehill veterans, their bench depleted by draft indifference, their salary cap situation tenuous. The 2009 season typified the teams Requiem for a Dream approach to personnel management. The $100-million Albert Haynesworth deal provided heady, headline- grabbing thrills in March and made the team a fashionable playoff pick, but the team shambled dopesick through the seasons final four games. By that point, injuries had whittled the roster down to a collection of rookie free agents and no-name veterans, with Haynesworth a flabby non-factor and Jim Zorn reduced to a lame-duck figurehead with no roster or play-calling authority.

Vinny Cerratos dismissal at the end of the 2009 season signaled a possible end to the downward spiral. Observers like Marty Schottenheimer (who once spent a year on the Redskins roller coaster) believed that Cerrato, not owner Dan Snyder, was the impatient, freespending enabler who supported the Redskins free agent habit. With Cerrato gone, Snyder steered clear of Julius Peppers, Karlos Dansby, and Anquan Boldin, the top veteran prizes available this winter.
The Redskins were finally off the horse and ready to commit to long-range rebuilding and careful roster management under new coach Mike Shanahan and executive Bruce Allen, football lifers with experience in successful organizations.
Then came the Donovan McNabb trade. Cue the Velvet Underground soundtrack.

Recovery just wasnt in the works for the Redskins. The Cerrato-to- Allen/Shanahan regime change was supposed to represent a clean break from the past, but Snyder handled it in his inimitable style. The owner courted Shanahan before Allen, undermining the new executives authority before he was even hired. Snyder added his signature touch of class by pursuing both very publicly in December while Zorn twisted in the wind. Shanahan represented another splashy, attention-seeking coaching hire in the mold of Steve Spurrier and Joe Gibbs. The only reasons to suspend skepticism about Shanahan in the wake of so many big-name coaching failures were his solid reputation, his decade of success in Denver, and Cerratos firing. Allen may have been selected after Shanahan, but at least he was a bona fide general manager, not a company man with a weakness for overpriced veterans.

Shanahan and Allen offered hope, but hope fades quickly inside the Beltway. On the very day of Shanahans first press conference, Clinton Portis ripped Jason Campbell (still the teams starting quarterback at that point) on ESPN radio. Jason couldnt take control of the huddle Thats not his character. You cant place so much on someone whos not ready for that situation, Portis said. The comments were part of an extended rant in which Portis defended his privileged relationship with Snyder (they apparently ended up at the same restaurant drinking wine numerous times, but only coincidently) and suggested that hed grudgingly tone down his bromance with Snyder if a coach found it threatening. If you didnt want me going to sit beside him during practice when I dont have anything to do then OK, cool, you say that, and Ive got to abide by that, Portis said, sounding like someone who is neither OK nor cool with being told where he sits.

The Campbell comments soon became irrelevant, but the irony of Portis filibuster was hard to ignore. The Shanahan press conference was a carefully orchestrated show, with Allen making the announcements and Snyder all but hiding behind a potted plant to illustrate his new inconspicuousness. At nearly the same moment, Portis was illustrating why Joe Gibbs once called him an assistant GM. Whatever new professionalism the Redskins hoped to project at the start of the Shanahan era would be slow to take root.

For a few weeks, though, the Redskins really changed. They sat out the giddy first days of free agency. They made minor, targeted moves, signing tackle Artis Hicks while re-signing starting offensive linemen Casey Rabach and Mike Williams. All signs pointed to a patient rebuilding program, or at least the start of one. In his CBSSports.com column, Clark Judge praised the Redskins for doing the unthinkable, the unimaginable and the damn-near-impossible when it comes to free-agent spending: just saying no. When the Redskins hired Shanahan, people wondered how long it would take before he would make a difference. I think we just got our answer, Judge concluded.
Then the Redskins traded for McNabb, and we got a different answer.

In the short term, McNabb will improve the Redskins. His DVOA and DYAR (8.9% and 619) were only slightly better than Campbells (-1.8% and 335) last season, but our stats only tell part of the story. Mc- Nabb provides deep passing ability that the Redskins have lacked and desperately needed under Campbell. McNabb had effective weapons like DeSean Jackson in 2009, but he spent most of his career throwing to mediocre receivers, and the Redskins offense will get much better if he can get as much from Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly as he got from Reggie Brown or Todd Pinkston in years past. His leadership skills were ridiculed to comical lengths by the Philly media, but his Pro Bowl and playoff pedigree give him much more clubhouse credibility than Campbell ever had, and he was enthusiastically embraced by his new Redskins teammates. Most importantly, he has a decade of experience in a system similar to Shanahans and will be able to transition smoothly into the new offense. Campbell had learned so many offenses, dating back to his Auburn days, that indecision and confusion were setting in. One of Portis main complaints was the difficulty Campbell had getting the play in, a problem compounded by the fact that four different coaches had play-calling input last year.

Now for the long term: McNabb is 33 and injuryprone, having played all 16 games just once in the last five seasons. His scrambling ability has declined sharply hes run for just 287 yards in the past two seasons and he is going from one of the better offensive lines in the league to one of the worst. Some of McNabbs worst games have come after the Eagles were forced to plug in unprepared offensive linemen: The two Cowboys games at the end of last season (after Jamaal Jackson was hurt) and his 12-sack game against the Giants in 2007 (Winston Justices first start) are obvious examples. In Washington, hell face the kind of pressure he felt in those games every week unless firstround pick Trent Williams develops immediately and Shanahan can work some kind of blocking magic at the teams other trouble spots. McNabb is in the decline of his career, and every sack will accelerate that decline.

McNabb cost the Redskins money, but he also cost them draft picks: a high second-rounder this year, a third-rounder in 2011. The Redskins spent a decade throwing around second- and third-round picks like arcade coupons, using them to sweeten trades for veterans or to move up to select players like Campbell they later have no use for. The Redskins had no second-round pick in 2009; no first-rounder in 2008; no second-, third-, or fourth-rounder in 2007; no first-, third-, or fifth-rounder in 2006; and so on. The Redskins squandered a half-decades worth of productive, homegrown, moderately-priced players in their pursuit of big-name veterans. McNabb, though an upgrade, is just the latest in a long line of short-term solutions. Just months after overhauling their front office and coaching staff and promising to start clean, the addictive behavior returned.

Just as Portis overshadowed Shanahans press conference, Haynesworth cast a pall over the McNabb party by publicly thumbing his nose at the teams offseason workouts. It was another discouraging reminder of how quickly Redskins acquisitions reach their expiration date. McNabb obviously wont become a Portis, Haynesworth, or DeAngelo Hall-type distraction; hes no clubhouse politician or malcontent. He wont be calling out teammates or skipping workouts anytime soon. But he is very likely to become an injury-prone siphon on the salary cap in the near future; probably not 2010, maybe not 2011, but all too soon.

Once the Redskins took another toke of the veteran market, they couldnt stop themselves. Larry Johnson and Willie Parker arrived just before McNabb, joining Portis in a three-headed backfield that would have terrified the league in 2006. Bobby Wade and Joey Galloway arrived a few weeks later as votes of no-confidence to stalled receiver prospects Kelly and Thomas. Galloway, 38 and coming off a seven-catch season, is a vintage Redskins acquisition; its as if Cerrato left instructions on his desk that Allen and Shanahan were forced by some blood oath to carry out. By the time 33-year-old defensive end Vonnie Holliday and 34-year-old backup linebacker Chris Draft joined the fold, it was hard to remember that the Redskins were thought of as a disciplined team committed to a youth movement as recently as April 3. The team that needed to get younger somehow got older.

All of that veteran wallpapering comes with an upside. The Redskins should reach the playoffs this year: They are better than they were last season, and they werent as bad last season as their record suggests. They fell well below their Estimated Win total of 7.3 in 2009, underperforming because of Zorns dreadful coaching and some special teams lapses. Zorns ineffectuality as a leader and strategist was evident in earlyseason losses to the woeful Lions (the Redskins were 2-of-10 on third downs, committed 97 yards in penalties, and allowed three straight drives for a combined 41 Lions offensive plays) and Chiefs (eight three-andout drives against an opponent that couldnt score a touchdown). If Shaun Suisham could kick straight, the Redskins would have beaten the Cowboys in Week 11, and a special-teams fumble provided the margin of victory for the Saints in Week 13. The switch from Zorn-Campbell to Shanahan-McNabb will get the Redskins to snap back to that seven-win level and then buy them an extra win or two. A schedule full of Rams, Buccaneers, and Lions gives them another boost. The NFC East will have a down season, and the Redskins get two meetings with the McNabb-less Eagles, who are actually rebuilding instead of signing 34-year-old backup linebackers. The Redskins will have an offense close to league average and a solid 3-4 defense that has the right personnel for the system. Haynesworth tried his darnedest to be an offseason-long distraction, demanding a trade in June, but the Redskins defense can survive without him. Barring a Week 1 McNabb injury, the Redskins are a safe bet to compete for a wild card, if not win their division.

But the Redskins havent built a true contender. Theyve built another version of their 2005 team, which went 10-6 in Gibbs second season. Gibbs promoted 35-year-old Mark Brunell over former top pick Patrick Ramsey that year, and Brunell had a 23-touchdown season. Eager to take the next step, Snyder and Cerrato added Antwaan Randle El, T.J. Duckett, Brandon Lloyd, and Adam Archuleta to the roster, even though Gibbs and his staff had no use for any of them but Randle El. The other three ate up cap and roster space, the Redskins fell to 5-11, and Brunells injuries led to a premature start of the Campbell era.

The 2010 Redskins have even worse long-range prospects than their 2005 counterparts, who at least surrounded Brunell with a young group of offensive weapons, had a pair of bookend offensive tackles in their prime, and possessed a few other assets. This years Redskins have an alarming number of players who are about to simultaneously grow old, and thats not even counting lunatic acquisitions like Galloway. McNabb, Portis, Johnson, Parker, Santana Moss, Rabach, Philip Daniels, and London Fletcher are all at or approaching the downside of their careers, with Andre Carter and Derrick Dockery not far behind them. There are few obvious successors to these key players on the roster, and with training camp bloated with Galloway and Holliday types, it will be hard for the team to find and develop quality replacements. In a few years, Shanahan will be fired, McNabb will return to Philadelphia to retire with the Eagles, and Snyder will stand next to Urban Meyer heralding the start of another new era.

There are two sad elements to the Redskins plight. The first is that some in the Redskins organization will feel vindicated when the team loses in the second round of the playoffs. Snyder and others will convince themselves that they made all the right moves. Allen could win Executive of the Year if he takes the team from four wins to ten. There will be a lot of backslapping for a very small accomplishment. And of course, that will only encourage Snyder and company to climb back on the horse.

The second is that so many of the Redskins problems are obvious and avoidable. Anyone who looks carefully at the roster can see long-term disaster brewing, and it doesnt take much imagination to find healthier alternatives to the path the Redskins chose. The Redskins could have Jake Delhomme or Derek Anderson as their starting quarterback, with second-round pick Jimmy Clausen waiting in the wings. Or, they could have given Campbell another year, used their second-round pick on a defensive playmaker like Sergio Kindle, and let their defense win a few games while Shanahan made tough decisions on offense. Heck, they could have pulled the trigger on the McNabb deal but held off on all of the Parker-Johnson-Galloway nonsense, increasing their odds of finding a great young back or receiver who will improve as McNabb fades. The Redskins just cant do that. They keep seeking short-term dividends that arent worth the long-range consequences.

Of course, thats exactly the kind of trade-off addicts make. In March, it looked like Allen and Shanahan could make a difference. Now, theyre stuck in the same web that snared Gibbs, Schottenheimer, Spurrier, and Zorn. Snyder drags good football people down with him. This year, the high will last past August, but the crash will come before February. And next years hangover will be as bad or worse than the last ten.

-Mike Tanier

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 01:41 PM

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2. "This article is stupid"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

How much did Johnson, Parker, Galloway, Wade, Holiday, and Draft cost?? Not shit...

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 01:49 PM

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3. "you didn't read it."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 01:51 PM

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4. "Really?!? Damn I could of sworn I did"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

Thanks for letting me know

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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Shaggy
Charter member
5587 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 02:12 PM

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5. "They didn't mention their salaries"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

b/c that wasn't the point. The Skins are once again choosing age/experience (more likely to get hurt, no chance of upside) over youth. Those guys are taking the spots of young guys who could actually turn out to be good and also cost even at the minimum 3 times what the young guy would cost.

Also, if the Skins weren't so stupid with their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc round picks the last 10 years, these vets wouldn't be needed. They are not developing guys other than 1st rounders and they aren't doing a great job of that.

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 02:35 PM

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7. "Where are those guys going to come from?"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

Where are you going to get a roster full of young guys in one offseason? You can't compare the signings of these players with the signings of ARE, Archuleta, Brandon Lloyd, Bruce Smith, etc... because none of those players are being counted on for anything and are being paid accordingly. Galloway and Wade are competing for the last WR spot, Draft will never see the field, Johnson is just fine as a 2nd RB, Parker will probably be cut in favor of Ryan Torain, and Vonnie Holliday is without a doubt still a serviceable player in this league. Where is the problem? Feel free to point out all of the blossoming young players that were willing to sign for a 1/3 of the veteran minimium... I'll wait...

Furthermore, this STUPID article also would prefer the Redskins to do the following things:

1) Hire another Jim Zorn b/c any coach in the league with any type of experience or success would have been viewed as "another splashy hire"

2) Start Jake Delhomme or Derek Anderson at QB or even worse... Keep Jason Campbell.

What the Skins actually did this offseason was:

1. Got an actual NFL QB on their roster..Campbell, Collins and Brennan are not NFL QB's

2. Rebuilt the O-Line with 2 talented tackles and a value signing of Artis Hicks

3. Transitioned to a new defense and signed transitional players such as Holliday, Draft, Carriker, Kemoatu, Howard Green etc...

4. Greatly improved their RB stable... LJ/Parker/Torain are way better options than Betts/whoever the hell it was that week....

The Redskins didn't have a legitimate NFL roster last season. Now they do. That's a pretty large step in just one offseason.

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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Awburn
Member since Oct 16th 2003
1864 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 02:40 PM

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8. "The author said they would be better with those moves... in 2010"
In response to Reply # 7


          

but they arent winning a ring in 2010 or 2011.

After 2011, the mcnabb and jamal brown picks will be sorely missed.

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 02:53 PM

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11. "Please"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

I will take a Pro Bowl caliber Tackle who is 29 years old for a 3rd/4th round pick every day of the week. Brown will be around for more than two seasons so on that you are just plain wrong.

As far as the McNabb trade... the Redskins absolutely had to add a starting QB for 2010 and this is a case where the new regime had to pay for the mistakes of the past. Would it have been ideal to have a QB waiting in the wings? Sure. But a 2nd and probably 4th rounder for McNabb was a fucking steal. Would you rather have McNabb or Cutler for multiple first rounders and a decent QB?

McNabb is the ONLY acquisition of this off-season that could remind people of the old Redskins, You can't point at Wade and Galloway who are being paid nothing and expected to do nothing and say "oh oh look the redskins are blowing money on has-beens again!!"

If anyone in the NFL is following the old Redskins model it is the NYJ and the Chicago Bears... that's a whole other post though...

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 03:16 PM

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14. "Another off season of almost no steps to rebuild the oldest roster"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

in the NFL. THAT is the argument.

When McNabb leaves town in two years or plays 12 games this year you'll see how pointless this trade was.

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 03:22 PM

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15. "Tell me what they should have done"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Tell me who all these mystery young star players in waiting they should have signed were.... you can't... because they don't exist...

waaah! waaah! the redskins didn't do something impossible this year!! waaah!

Everyone knows you love JC... get over it... he is gone and thankfully he won't be coming back... Even if McNabb only plays 12 games... 12 games of McNabb + 4 games of Grossman is way better than 16 games of JC. I've already stated that McNabb was the most Vinny-esque move of our offseason, but when you inherit a roster without a single NFL QB on it, trading a 2nd rounder for a proven starter is a no brainer.

Take issue with something specific instead of just crying that the Skins didn't sign a bunch of young blossoming stars that don't exist....

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-26-10 04:04 PM

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18. "trading two good picks for a 33 y.o. QB wasn't a good move"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

that second rounder this year is one potential young *starter* right there.

Dropping JC and getting McNabb isn't an either/or proposition.

Dump JC, but don't do it at the expense of two valuable draft picks. Sign a shitty veteran if you have to, that's what rebuilding teams do.

We need to rebuild. Trading two valuable picks for a 33 y.o. QB is not what a rebuilding team does.

________________

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 04:28 PM

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20. "you are just wrong"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

How can you right the sinking ship without plugging the holes? What's the point of bringing in a bunch of young guys when the leaders of the team (Moss, Portis, Cooley, etc.) are just a bunch of knuckleheads who want to have a good time instead of win football games. It takes a changing of the culture. It takes leadership. It takes having a QB on your team who is a man who speaks his mind instead of JC who wants to hide in the back of the locker room under a pile of towels. Where was JC this time of year? Who the fuck knows! I know where McNabb is... he is out in the hot ass Arizona sun with Moss, Thomas, and Kelly working his ass off to become a better offense. Trading for McNabb was more than just the play on the field for the next few seasons, it's about setting a tone in Washington and being an example of what a professional football player is supposed to be. What's the point of having a bunch of young guys if no one is going to show them the ropes?

There is a lot that has to be determined before I can even say exactly how big of a rebuilding project we are in for. A lot of our players can't even be judged fairly due to position changes or the incompetent schemes of the past coaches. Who knows if Landry is truly as terrible as his play suggests... he lines up 25 yards off the ball under Blache! Who knows if our CB's are any good, they lined up 10 yards away from the WR on 3rd and 2! Maybe Kelly and Thomas are total busts but how is anyone to know when the WR's were lined up in one spot and one spot only on the field? This team needs to be evaluated before you can even say we are rebuilding.

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-26-10 06:17 PM

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26. "We are not going to contend in the next 3 years. Period."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

And we're giving away draft picks so that we have a QB who makes his WRs train in the off season and plays 12 games a season? Please.

We need to rebuild, but we're not going to. Shanahan and McNabb will be gone within 3 three years, and we'll be right back where we are now:

bad.

________________

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Mon Jul-26-10 06:01 PM

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24. "vets? So you'd rather have Delhomme or Bulger?"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

come on DAWG

that's blind hatred, hatred that's not even rooted in actual truthful logic. This fanbase and organization was BROKEN, totally void of a leader. McNabb is a leader. He's got those boys out there pushing monster truck tires up a hill in the desert, not even because that's getting them in shape but because they're establishing a camraderie. You think a bamma like fuckin Matt Hasselbeck or somebody would have done that?

come on dude seriously

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-26-10 06:19 PM

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28. "I want to suck with young players who might develop"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

yall want to suck with a QB who will be gone within three years.

________________

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Mon Jul-26-10 06:25 PM

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32. "the Patriots won three Super Bowls with washed up bammas"
In response to Reply # 28
Mon Jul-26-10 06:25 PM by Tiger Woods

  

          

Tom Brady, and a good coach

youth, in this league, is vastly overrated.

What isn't overrated is depth, and that is my main reason of concern.

Rome wasn't built in a day man. Just because a dude is young that doesn't automatically mean he's good.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-26-10 06:26 PM

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35. "the Patriots HOARD draft picks"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

they prove my point, not yours.

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Mon Jul-26-10 06:32 PM

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39. "ok sure, read up on their history dude come on"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

a rack of bums under Bill

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 08:11 PM

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43. "I mean really!"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Look outside of the first 2 rounds and tell me what the Pats have gotten outside of Asante Samuel since Brady....

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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ChuckFoPrez
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104. "smuts is so fucking debbie downer nothing will make him happy"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

he should just change his username to eeyore. i'm willing to give things a go w/ the changes made to this team. if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. but we gotta at least TRY.

https://twitter.com/chuck4prez

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Mon Jul-26-10 06:30 PM

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38. "Yeah that doesn't help your arguement, especially when you "
In response to Reply # 32


          

consider that the Pats were going nowhere with the established, one time SB appearance, but older QB Drew Bledsoe.

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Mon Jul-26-10 06:36 PM

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40. "it does actually, Smuts has a hard on for youth"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Mon Jul-26-10 06:47 PM

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41. "baby steps man"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

Let's start with:

I have a hard-on for not having the oldest roster in the NFL.

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
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Mon Jul-26-10 07:46 PM

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42. "Let's not have the oldest roster in the NFL huh?"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Wouldn't you start by cutting a grip of old ass players who got PT? like:

Betts
Cartwright
Cornelius Griffin
Randy Thomas
Fred Smoot
Antwan Randle El
Todd Collins
Todd Yoder
Renaldo Wynn

Check

The fuck do I care how old the 5th/6th WR's are? The players that will step onto the field this season will be significantly younger than the players who stepped on the field last season. Once again you are just asking for something that is impossible. You want us to completely change our defense yet you somehow want it to happen by us magically signing 24 year olds with potential that don't exist. Geez I can't believe we didn't sign that awesome 23 year old 6'6 340 pound nose tackle that doesn't exist...STUPID REDSKINS! Let's just go recruit players from local high schools, then in 2018 we will be dope!

Your entire position in this post is based on fantasy. You put this article up here like it was the gospel and then refuse to defend anything that the article says. Why should anyone give a fuck about how old a bunch of guys with 1-year minimum deals who may or may not even make the team are? It's completely inconsequential to anything that goes into rebuilding a franchise.

Stupid fucking article.

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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Mon Jul-26-10 11:10 PM

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47. "washed up bammas?"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

Ty Law? McGinest? Vrabel? Bruschi? Ted Johnson? Seymour? Light? Woody? Brown?

Of those guys, only McGinest and Brown were in their 8th year in the league when the pats first won the SB. They had a lot of veterans they added, no doubt, but they weren't a bunch of washed up bammas at the core of the team. that team had a good defense. it had a young OL.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

"on the other hand 100% of the Islamic terrorists are Muslims." A f*cking congressman. smh.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 08:33 AM

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56. "I'm not sure these guys have ever watched a Pats game"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

________________

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twistyroad
Charter member
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111. "Our last 2 Super Bowl quarterback were gone within 2 years"
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

of winning it all.

Doug was 31 and Ryp was 29.

Neither one of them were drafted by the Skins.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 12:48 PM

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112. "I'm not sure that's helpful in evaluating our team now, in this era"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

as this roster is constructed.

They had the Hogs, we have... Rabach and Hicks.

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Awburn
Member since Oct 16th 2003
1864 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 03:28 PM

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16. "Brown = Randy Thomas"
In response to Reply # 11


          

>I will take a Pro Bowl caliber Tackle who is 29 years old for
>a 3rd/4th round pick every day of the week. Brown will be
>around for more than two seasons so on that you are just plain
>wrong.

i would rather draft another OT in 2011 and get depth with the 3/4 pick than have a 31 year old tackle in two years with an old ass mcnabb. randy thomas was around for a few seasons, but helped little cuz the rest of the team was crap.



>As far as the McNabb trade... the Redskins absolutely had to
>add a starting QB for 2010 and this is a case where the new
>regime had to pay for the mistakes of the past. Would it have
>been ideal to have a QB waiting in the wings? Sure. But a 2nd
>and probably 4th rounder for McNabb was a fucking steal. Would
>you rather have McNabb or Cutler for multiple first rounders
>and a decent QB?

trading a 2 and 4 for a team like the Cards that is on the cusp of winning a title is justified gamble. That is not justifiable for an old 4-12 team on the cusp being a wildcard contender. I hate Clausen, be we'd be better off with him or another OL from the second round.


  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 03:36 PM

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17. "We can't afford to go 4-12 and take our lumps"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

Another season like that and there will be a mutiny in DC. The fans will abandon the team finally... It's a desperation move of course but desperate times.... McNabb was a must...

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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ncr2h
Member since May 07th 2005
1224 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 04:15 PM

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19. "Don't you realize that's a compliment?"
In response to Reply # 16


          

Randy Thomas has absolutely been an excellent olineman for us since we got him. I don't see why you're against another Randy Thomas. We're obviously gearing up this year and our goal is to win the SB. People who dismiss us as a second round exit don't get it - once you get to the playoffs, anything can happen.

Yeah, that 3rd and 4th round pick might turn into a pro bowler. But it might turn into a dud. Taking a gamble on Jamaal Brown is probably worth the risk of giving up a potential Pro Bowler, especially because we want to be ready this season to do damage. We can start picking up depth next year through the draft and trades.

Also, I think people are underestimating Shanahan's coaching ability. Dude will probably get this offense clicking very quickly.

  

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Awburn
Member since Oct 16th 2003
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Tue Jul-27-10 08:38 AM

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58. "Randy Thomas didn't help us win. "
In response to Reply # 19


          

>Also, I think people are underestimating Shanahan's coaching
>ability. Dude will probably get this offense clicking very
>quickly.

No one doubts him. the plan is in doubt. trying to win now with a old team and selling out the future in the long term is the problem.

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18387 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 05:59 PM

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23. "god damn you are so way totally wrong like as if!"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 02:22 PM

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6. "lol"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 02:44 PM

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9. "Shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

God I love the Red*kins.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 02:48 PM

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10. "THIS TIME his crazy plan is going to work"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

Just wait: perennial contenders 2011-2013.

________________

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josephmurf2384
Member since Nov 21st 2005
5289 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 03:06 PM

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12. "Lol @ Washington making the 2nd round"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and contending for the division. Shit won't happen.

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 03:09 PM

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13. "On this I agree...."
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

7-9 to 9-7 is about the best they can muster with a tough schedule.... doesn't mean this was a bad offseason by any means... just because smuts is butt hurt that JC is gone...

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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DonKnutts
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Mon Jul-26-10 04:31 PM

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21. "props to PHABEL in this post"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18387 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 05:51 PM

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22. "wherein I reveal my true opinion of Dan Snyder"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jul-26-10 05:55 PM by Tiger Woods

  

          

"listen you beautiful bitch, I'm bout to fuck you up with some truth right now." - Kenny Powers

on the matter of Dan Snyder I hold an opinion that differs from nearly everyone else's.

Dan Snyder really isn't as bad as everyone has made him out to be. There. Said. Done.

Has he made his mistakes? Sure he has. Is he socially retarded and hugely out of touch with the fanbase that makes his club the fourth most valuable professional sports franchise in the entire world? Of course he is.

But there's people, somewhat intelligent people who follow sports regularly mind you, that think that Dan Snyder truly doesn't give a shit about the well being of the Washington Redskins so long as he's making money. And that is about as false as it gets.

There is nothing that translates to dollars more in the NFL than a Super Bowl victory, so even if his chief primary goal was to be the richest team in the league don't you think he'd want to, like, win?
Granted that's considerably easier said than done, but in the last decade, while they've fared considerably better than we have, we still have won as many Super Bowls as the Eagles or Cowboys: 0.

Dan Snyder's biggest flaw, that in turn yielded a number of at times crippling mistakes, is his impatience. But don't say he doesn't want to win. His trouble is he just wants to win NOW, in a league that rewards patience and long term plans and commitments.

* Was firing Norv a mistake?
- maybe but Norv Turner is honestly a pussy who was given way too much grace by Jack prior to Dan's arrival. The timing of the firing was brutal, but at the time everyone was furious with him whether the angry mob wants to now admit that or not.

* Was hiring Steve Spurrier a mistake?
- again, obviously it was in retrospect. But who truly wasn't cysed when this was announced? Sure, everyone LOVES to say "oh come on that offense wasn't built for the NFL and he ran the team like a country club." But miss with that bullshit. When that news broke here in DC you'd have thought we won the Super Bowl already, that is until...

* Was hiring Joe Gibbs a mistake?
- ok this is the one where the bitterest of fan reveals his true lack of perception. "He was out of touch"-"The game had passed him by"-"He made awful personnel decisions" OK YEA HE DID BUT WHY DON'T YOU RECALL YOUR UNABASHED EUPHORIA WHEN YOU HEARD THIS SHIT WAS REALLY GOING DOWN THAT WINTER. There was not a SINGLE sports pundit in America who didn't laud this move. And Dan did what everyone had been begging him to do, he gave up the reigns. It was GIBBS who brought on Adam Archuletta and Brandon Lloyd, it was GIBBS who gave CP the keys to the castle and inflated his ego.

* Was hiring Zorn a mistake?
- probably. The move to make here was Gregg Williams. BUT keep in mind I'm saying this from a FAN'S perspective, if I were an owner about to trust a billion dollar ball club to another man whose head coaching resume was as spotty as Gregg's was at the time I might have second thoughts too. The Zorn move is what a lot of teams do, they find a diamond in the rough with promise and they give him a shot. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. This one didn't.

Dan isn't without his deserved L's. He shouldn't have fired Marty, they would have eventually won with Marty. I think Dan knows that. He should have brought on an actual disciplined GM earlier than he just did. I think he knows that as well. But I truly believe this about Dan Snyder; the biggest decisions he's made, the ones he catches so much shit for now, were made with the best interest of the Washington Redskins at heart. Deion=Cool idea. Spurrier=Cool idea. Gibbs=cool idea. Haynesworth=cool idea ("we're one dominant pass rusher away from having the best defense in the league"<--you said it. everyone else did too.)

However, through all the fuss, his biggest mistake occurred last year when the pressure finally got to him and he started confiscating T-shirts and signs that criticized him at Fed-Ex during games. That was a move of cowardice, where people are furious at the awful product and they can't even let their voices be heard about it despite having shelled out their hard earned money for tickets to something that wasn't reaping a worthwhile return on investment.

So I'm done letting everyone shit on Dan Snyder just because it's chic. If you were the proprietor of a billion dollar baby would you just trust someone else to fly the plane without some sort of input? That's a rhetorical question.

He's impatient, but he's clearly competitive and he's certainly not evil. He wants to win, he just hasn't figured out how yet. But this tenure is young, I can't help but feel that at some point even for all the missteps this franchise has made in the last ten years that Dan Snyder doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. An angry mob loves a villain, and the media loves to contribute in building one if it sells papers. In that respect he's served his role nicely for the last ten years. But let him bring just ONE chip to DC and people will put their coat jackets over puddles for him if they see him crossing the street on a rainy day.


  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13929 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 06:08 PM

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25. "So basically what you are saying is Dan Snyder can do no wrong"
In response to Reply # 22


          

in retrospect/hindsight it isn't his fault for making a bunch of dumb moves and you will continue to support Dan Snyder no matter what other stupid shit that he may do in the future.

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18387 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 06:19 PM

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29. "did I say that? "
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

I mentioned several instances where he did wrong. Very wrong in fact. I'm just rationalizing the things he catches the most shit for, which in actuality weren't that bad until way after the decisions were made.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 06:25 PM

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33. "The record speaks for itself. I shit on Snyder because his teams suck."
In response to Reply # 22
Mon Jul-26-10 06:25 PM by smutsboy

  

          

When we start contending, I will give Dan credit for running a good franchise.

________________

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13929 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 06:18 PM

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27. "Smuts is right about Dan Snyder and it seems like some of "
In response to Reply # 0


          

these Washington fans are in full denial of where this team is heading.

They need to scrap everything and go into full rebuilding mode. They should have went with a veteran QB and did a full fire sale of players like Cooley, Moss, Portis, etc and get whatever draft picks they could to build on for the future. McNabb is only going to give this team two years of competitiveness. I also think people are giving Shanahan to much credit, he isn't as great of a coach as many people may think.

I am willing to bet the Lions end up with a better record than Washington this up coming season and will end up winning more games over the next decade than Washington.

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18387 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 06:20 PM

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30. "let me look at the Lions schedule right quick"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18387 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 06:23 PM

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31. "ok I'll bet 25 bucks that you're wrong."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

and for the record I only think the Skins are going 6-10, 7-9.

but the Lions schedule is ridic. If you seriously think they're winning more games than the Skins you're trippin.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13929 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 06:25 PM

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34. "Just $25? Cmon now Washington is your team and you have McNabb"
In response to Reply # 31
Mon Jul-26-10 06:26 PM by calij81

          

you should have more faith than that.

I am willing to throw down at least $50 that the Lions end up with a better record the Washington.

  

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
18387 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 06:26 PM

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36. "man I just bought a car and this is still just sports "
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

you wanna do this or not damn

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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Mon Jul-26-10 06:28 PM

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37. "Let's make a deal, $25 it is"
In response to Reply # 36


          

  

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DonKnutts
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106. "i'll take that Lions bet for $50"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

holla

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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107. "You got it"
In response to Reply # 106


          

  

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DonKnutts
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109. "this applies to this season, yeah?"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

not gonna hold out for the decade.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
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110. "Yeah just the season"
In response to Reply # 109


          

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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44. "Going from 30 year olds to slightly younger 30 y.o.'s isn't significant."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

We're only set to get noticeably younger at two positions (LT & WR), and that's if Devin Thomas can actually win a starting job.

The article's main point is that the Redskins have spent a decade trading away draft picks for veterans, accumulating aging talent, and not winning much. Sadly this is indisputable fact. (See: 26th best record in the NFL since 1999)

Getting Donovan McNabb instead of adding a young prospect this year and another next year is par for the course with a Snyder-owned team. Donovan McNabb is 100x the player Jason Campbell is, and yet this is irrelevant to the author's point (however it's quite obvious that it means everything to kool aid drinkers like yourself).

As the article says, we'll be better this year, and we still have no long-term plans to contend. There is nothing long-term whatsoever about Brunell, McNabb, Haynesworth, Jason Taylor, or any of the other annual toys.

I made this post so that I can up it as the years go by and Snyder's teams never achieve contender status.

Eventually Snyder will hire a GM who, unlike Gibbs, Cerrato and Shanahan, is qualified for the job.

That, or fans like you will one day see the big picture.

The big, never-contending picture.

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
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Mon Jul-26-10 10:59 PM

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45. "First of all... Bruce Allen is the GM...not Shanahan...."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

Second of all... what do you have to up in this post exactly? You should have made a post that said

The Skins should have kept their 2nd round pick and drafted player x, player y, or player z.

Instead you attached yourself to a STUPID article that tries to draw parallels between big money mistakes of the past (Arch, Lloyd, etc.) and 1 year minimum contract signings in an uncapped year of some old vets who probably won't even make the roster. You attached yourself to something that referred to a one year minimum contract for Joey Galloway that will last until the end of training camp as a "lunatic signing". Anyone with half a brain knows that Joey Galloway isn't going to make the team and that he is just there to be a leader since the only vet on our team is Santana Moss who is going to be too busy faking hamstring injuries. Then the STUPID article goes on to talk about Vonnie Holliday as if he isn't a productive player and an excellent signing for a team transitioning to a 3-4.

Not only are the things that the article says STUPID, even the things it doesn't bother to say are STUPID. It fails to mention Trent Williams or the fact that we drafted 3 lineman in the draft. It fails to mention that we drafted a young inside LB in addition to signing Chris Draft. It fails to mention that we also drafted a WR in Terrence Austin in addition to signing Galloway, Furrey, Wade and Roydell Williams in our desperate search for WR's 4 and 5. It fails to mention that we stole Adam Carriker from the Rams or brought in two monstrous space eating NT's. Nope instead the STUPID article was slanted and only mentions cheap back-up signings and guys who won't even make the team.

Like I said, this is a STUPID article and it's a shame you look so STUPID for attaching yourself to it. You should of just made a post about McNabb. He used your anger about the past and your lost love JC to cloud your judgment on the present.... STUPID

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
26425 posts
Mon Jul-26-10 11:11 PM

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48. "^just called joey galloway a leader"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

LOL.

-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

"on the other hand 100% of the Islamic terrorists are Muslims." A f*cking congressman. smh.

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
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Mon Jul-26-10 11:20 PM

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49. "On the Redskins?"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

Easily...

Moss
Thomas
Kelly

Which one of them is going to step up? Nada

There is a reason the last two organizations to give Joey a try were Pittsburgh and New England....

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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thejerseytornado
Member since Dec 24th 2005
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50. "just like there's a reason he didn't last in either place?"
In response to Reply # 49


  

          


-----------
mas que un club

08-09 Survivor Champion.

"I mean, I can pigeonhole people because I'm close-minded. But I'm special and different." (c) Walleye

"on the other hand 100% of the Islamic terrorists are Muslims." A f*cking congressman. smh.

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-27-10 08:56 AM

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62. "Yeah he is 38 years old"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

And he won't last in Washington either... that's the entire point...

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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ncr2h
Member since May 07th 2005
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Tue Jul-27-10 08:13 AM

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53. "^^^cosign"
In response to Reply # 45


          

Majority of skins fans on this board are too busy wallowing in the agony of the past to actually enjoy being a fan of the present team. There are a lot of reasons to expect the skins to do much better this year:

Mike Shanahan
Kyle Shanahan
A 3-4 defense AKA the mere possibility of some turnovers
If all goes well, 2 possibly excellent OTs
Upgrade at guard
Real competition at a lot of roster spots


  

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Awburn
Member since Oct 16th 2003
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Tue Jul-27-10 08:34 AM

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57. "there has always been activity to be excited in the offseason"
In response to Reply # 53


          

and zero results to back it up during the season.

why think it will be different after ten years?

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 08:39 AM

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59. "Your defense of the Galloway & Holliday moves are admirable"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

Sadly they are very clearly not central to the article's argument.

Here it is, since you still haven't comprehended the full text:

Trading away two picks for McNabb, drafting ONE good prospect, and hiring Shanahan as the personnel guy brings us no closer to a long term plan for CONTENTION. It makes us better for 1-2 years and leaves us right back where we always are: bad team, new regime.

There. That's the thesis. Deal with it.

Or don't, as the case seems to be.

________________

https://i.imgur.com/ZkkZekl.gif

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 08:55 AM

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61. "Damn you are fucking stupid"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

Shanahan is NOT the personnel guy! Bruce Allen is the GENERAL MANAGER of the Washington Redskins. You don't even know shit about your own team. Too busy crying about Jeff George and Mark Brunell. Did you even read your own article? It doesn't even really hate on the McNabb trade... it hates on the fact that the Skins signed older players after they signed McNabb...but I'm tired of rehashing simple and obvious things that anyone that knows anything about football knows are true, like Vonnie Holliday being a perfectly viable signing for a team moving to a 3-4... stop making yourself look stupid

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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63. "LOL, F-ck kinda GM doesn't hire his own coach?"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

If you think Allen has final personnel say, not Shanahan, then I'm not surprised you're happily drinking Danny's kool-aid yet again.

________________

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rob
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65. "i wouldn't be surprised if this same convo happens in skins hq all the t..."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

  

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Awburn
Member since Oct 16th 2003
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Tue Jul-27-10 09:22 AM

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68. "slim, Shanny is the VP of Personnel. "
In response to Reply # 61


          

That is a euphemism for he runs ish.

  

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Basaglia
Member since Nov 30th 2004
49463 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 09:06 AM

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66. "it's two picks....*shrug*...didn't exactly ruin things longterm"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

____________________________________________________


Steph: I was just fooling about

Kyrie: I wasn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8OWNspU_yE

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 09:16 AM

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67. "it's been a decade's worth of early round picks"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

any single trade can be shrugged off, but you have to look at the cumulative pattern over a decade to see how we never build for the future, and how this off-season shares things with past mistakes.

McNabb is 10,000x better than Lloyd, Archuletta, Jason Campbell or Brunell, but that misses the big-picture point.

________________

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rob
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69. "i think you're zeroing in on the wrong trend"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

this off-season isn't worrying because of the trade for mcnabb. you could easily eat the picks and ignore the history.

it's worrying because there isn't a qb behind him to learn the position. there isn't much talent at the skill positions offense and no new talent. and there isn't any guarantee of a stable offensive philosophy and player acquisition strategy over the coming years to fix these issues.

a franchise tackle is a great start, but every team needs that. what's going to be the identity of THIS offense? no one has any fucking clue, cause everyone besides williams and maybe cooley is gonna be gone in two years.

the defense in washington, i think, might be in a position to improve. that shit ain't happening with the offense, though mcnabb will provide enough magic to dampen the criticism.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 09:30 AM

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70. "identity is a good point"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

But I disagree with this:

>this off-season isn't worrying because of the trade for
>mcnabb. you could easily eat the picks and ignore the
>history.

Trading away two valuable picks for a 33 year old (no matter how skilled) is central to our ongoing failures.

________________

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rob
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Tue Jul-27-10 09:40 AM

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71. "granted, but you can only get wack qbs like kolb in the second"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

  

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DonKnutts
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80. "wow, your fandom must be really fun"
In response to Reply # 44


  

          


>
>I made this post so that I can up it as the years go by and
>Snyder's teams never achieve contender status.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 10:29 AM

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81. "Sleep easy my friend."
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

My boys and I have enjoyed football and beer every Sunday for the past decade.

________________

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bshelly
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46. "side note: i don't get my copy of FO Annual for another 1.5 weeks"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i'm sad.

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 08:25 AM

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54. "PDF my friend."
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

save trees

________________

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bshelly
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72. "i'm not reading a pdf for 800 pages"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

i got the KUBIAKs to play wtih, that'll hold me

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 09:46 AM

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73. "I don't read the whole thing"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

I read team capsules, and then jump around from player to player

________________

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bshelly
Charter member
71730 posts
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76. "i do"
In response to Reply # 73


  

          

----
bshelly

"You (Fisher) could get fired, Les Snead could get fired, Kevin Demoff could get fired, but I will always be Eric Dickerson.” (c) The God

  

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Frank Longo
Member since Nov 18th 2003
86672 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 12:48 AM

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51. "I thought this season was about trying to turn the mindset around."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Take some short contracts to help win now and then build through the draft over the coming seasons with a winning mentality rather than the current losing mentality.

I mean, you know Snyder and Shanahan weren't going to take a "let's wait and out and slowly build over the next 2-3 losing seasons" strategy. I don't really know what you expected.

My movies: http://russellhainline.com
My movie reviews: https://letterboxd.com/RussellHFilm/
My beer TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebeertravelguide

  

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rob
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Tue Jul-27-10 12:52 AM

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52. "which is why its hard to think Shanahan is gonna turn them around for re..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 08:32 AM

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55. "except we traded two valuable picks for McNabb, an old QB"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

>build
>through the draft over the coming seasons with a winning
>mentality rather than the current losing mentality.

lol, for past decade we trade away picks and then someone comes in and says, "but we'll start building through the draft next year".

When does 'next year' actually happen?

This winning mentality shit is sadly overrated. Draft good players and your team will do well. "a winning mentality" isn't what's going to take four aging offensive lineman and one rookie and turn it into a winning foundation. Drafting good offensive linemen will do that.

Which veteran QB taught the young Jets offense about a "winning mentality"? Chad Pennington? Mark Sanchez? Kellen Clemens?

________________

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rob
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60. "don't forget bringing in a coach known for pulling rbs out his ass"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

and then trying to sign every 30 year old who ever rushed for 1000 yards in a season.

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 11:12 AM

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87. "Which makes my point exactly"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

Article and Smuts in here crying that we're gonna have to replace Larry Johnson and Willie Parker in the next two years... as if Shanny is going to have some problem finding someone to do that.... you can only draft so many young players in a season the rest of the roster has to come from somewhere....

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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rob
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Tue Jul-27-10 11:19 AM

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88. "why sign them at all? why waste roster space instead of trying out youth..."
In response to Reply # 87
Tue Jul-27-10 11:19 AM by rob

  

          

shanahan shouldn't need to draft a backup rb. its a position where you can find waiver wire and udfa talent.

SOME of the offense needs to be back 2 years from now for a new qb to grow with...otherwise they'll get the jason campbell experience 2.0

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
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Tue Jul-27-10 11:27 AM

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89. "Name names...."
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

don't be like Smuts and invent a bunch of imaginary talent that doesn't exist...who should the Skin's have signed to be fragile Portis' backup? An UDRFA or some guy off the street? riiiiggggghhht.... The old Skins would have signed Darren Sproles to a 6 year 51 million dollar deal to backup Portis... Allen and Shanny signed some cheap talent to stop the bleeding in Washington... like I said above the Skins don't need and can't afford to go through a total rebuilding stage.. the fans won't stand for it...enough damage has been done to the organization already...

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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rob
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Tue Jul-27-10 11:41 AM

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91. "pierre thomas, ryan grant, justin forsett..."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

round 7/undrafted and beastly by their second years.

i'm sure one of the udfas this year or that supplemental dude from utah will do that.

worst case scenario, you try out one or two of these dudes, they bust for cheaper and you draft someone in the 3rd or 4th next year.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 09:01 AM

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64. "And no, I didn't expect anything else."
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

These other cats in here do though. "This time Danny's got it right!!!"

>don't really know what you expected.

________________

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 09:49 AM

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74. "No matter what we did Smuts was making this post"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

He is hurt... the man's penis that he wants up his ass is on the opposite side of the country now...

If we had drafted a QB in the 1st round this post would be about how the Skins needed to draft a OT. If we had hired a GM who had hired a puppet coach he would be complaining that Snyder didn't learn from Zorn. If we had signed Jake Delhomme this post would be about how the Skins front office continues to sign old bums.

This post is just really about the lonely feeling Smut's butthole has with JC in California.... and nothing more...

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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rob
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77. "synder's cuban without the interesting and smuts is generally reasonable"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

if all the options are depressing, maybe all the options are depressing.

  

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twistyroad
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Tue Jul-27-10 09:54 AM

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78. "just said this"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          


>This post is just really about the lonely feeling Smut's
>butthole has with JC in California.... and nothing more...

albeit nicer.

  

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twistyroad
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Tue Jul-27-10 09:51 AM

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75. "If the Skins won the Superbowl, some of you mfs would complain"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that the trophy isn't shiny enough.

Snyder went out and hired a great coach and a respected GM and because they haven't been able to turn the team into a SB contender in 1 offseason, people are acting like it's the end of the world.

A lot of this hate on McNabb is thinly veiled Jason Campbell nut hugging at it worst and it's pathetic.

Just jump off of a building already.

  

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rob
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Tue Jul-27-10 09:57 AM

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79. "RE: If the Skins won the Superbowl, some of you mfs would complain"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          


>because they haven't been able to turn the team into a SB
>contender in 1 offseason, people are acting like it's the end
>of the world.

that's the exact opposite of the point.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 10:34 AM

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82. "these people have a memory exactly 12 months long."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

And can't figure out why so many people criticize a guy who's SO FAR failed as an owner.

It's literally a mystery to them.

>>because they haven't been able to turn the team into a SB
>>contender in 1 offseason, people are acting like it's the
>end
>>of the world.
>
>that's the exact opposite of the point.

________________

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 10:58 AM

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83. "And you are literally retarded"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

Who in this post said Snyder was a good owner? Or that any of those moves of the past were good moves? Not a damn soul. We aren't talking about Snyder or the years 2000-2009. We are talking about 2010 and this stupid article that you are riding for that tries to relate this Skins offseason to the last ten despite the fact that they are nothing alike..... stop being so mad that your lover got shipped across the country for a ham sandwich... he sucks.. get over it...

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 11:02 AM

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84. "*blinks* "
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

>despite the fact that they are nothing alike

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 11:09 AM

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86. "lol"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

stop being so mad that your lover got shipped across the country for a ham sandwich... he sucks.. get over it...

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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DonKnutts
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Tue Jul-27-10 11:03 AM

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85. "but you act like guarded optimism..."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

or even a hardened cynicism but begrudging acceptance that there have been signs of improvement (my personal take) is totally out of line for a redskins fan, and that the only acceptable stance is yours: thoroughly pessimistic and negative to the point that you've created a post—ostensibly as a fan of said team—for the stated purpose of upping it so you can wallow in your prediction of their failure "as years go by" and your team "never achieves contender status." And literally, every single post you make about your team is in this same vein.

Is that not a little ridiculous?

We've gone over this before, but...why don't you just root for the Ravens?

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 11:33 AM

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90. "On the flip side"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

I generally don't criticize people for being optimists, I criticize specific arguments. No offense, but how the cumulative effect makes you feel about my posting isn't important. Phabel's posting dissolved into name-calling and gay slurs, and TW actually said that criticism of Snyder is unfair. I mean, jesus. Are we in the same universe?

As for abandoning the Redskins, I don't want to find a good team to be a fan of. I want my team to be good. THAT is called loyalty.

I don't think anything we did this year will change our long term outlook, and you think I'm being too negative by disagreeing with the legions of Redskins fans who claim Snyder's changed? How many times have we heard that false refrain before?

This team has been bad for a decade, most moves we make do turn out to fail, and you're begrudging me for posting about it? Not sure I see fairness in that.

I get that my posts are depressing, but that has WAY more to do with Snyder's job performance than it does with my outlook on things.

________________

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13929 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 11:47 AM

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92. "Smuts just give up you can't win"
In response to Reply # 90


          

they can't see the forest for the trees.

  

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DonKnutts
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Tue Jul-27-10 11:49 AM

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93. "you can mock people for being optimistic"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

but i can just as easily mock you for being pessimistic. it's two sides of the same coin. they may have been "programmed" to believe the team will be good, but you are just as "programmed" to believe they will fail, regardless of what they do.

you see black/white, i see gray... and it's difficult to reason with stubborn people who only see black/white. thus...we'll see.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 12:06 PM

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97. "I mocked people?"
In response to Reply # 93
Tue Jul-27-10 12:07 PM by smutsboy

  

          

A vast majority of my Skins discussion is on actual moves & players

Most name calling comes from people who disagree with me

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DonKnutts
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Tue Jul-27-10 12:14 PM

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100. ""are we in the same universe?""
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

i call this mocking. in a very passive, weak way. but yes. mocking.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 12:17 PM

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102. "c'mon, I have specific opinions, they just never match Snyder's"
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

I think Snyder's terrible at his job, and I usually explain where & why.

You're not giving me any credit, which is weak.

>but you are just as
>"programmed" to believe they will fail, regardless of what
>they do.

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DonKnutts
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Tue Jul-27-10 12:32 PM

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105. "you just said they "never" match Snyder's"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

and yet you just named offseason moves of his below that you agree with.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 12:38 PM

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108. "Apologies for mis-speaking"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

Instead of "never" I should have said "rarely"

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twistyroad
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Tue Jul-27-10 11:51 AM

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94. "RE: On the flip side"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          


>and TW actually said that criticism of Snyder is
>unfair. I mean, jesus. Are we in the same universe?

Never said that. My general sentiment is the man hired a good GM and a great coach. Give them longer than 1 offseason to cry about every move they make.

>As for abandoning the Redskins, I don't want to find a good
>team to be a fan of. I want my team to be good. THAT is called
>loyalty.
>
>I don't think anything we did this year will change our long
>term outlook, and you think I'm being too negative by
>disagreeing with the legions of Redskins fans who claim
>Snyder's changed? How many times have we heard that false
>refrain before?

Snyder's not selling the team. So what do we do? Bitch about moves made during an offseason that generally improves the team or continue to cry about Snyder regardless of what the Skins do?

>This team has been bad for a decade, most moves we make do
>turn out to fail, and you're begrudging me for posting about
>it? Not sure I see fairness in that.
>
>I get that my posts are depressing, but that has WAY more to
>do with Snyder's job performance than it does with my outlook
>on things.




  

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DonKnutts
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Tue Jul-27-10 11:57 AM

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95. "evidently, hope that they fail"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

So what do we do? Bitch about
>moves made during an offseason that generally improves the
>team or continue to cry about Snyder regardless of what the
>Skins do?
>

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13929 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 12:00 PM

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96. "RE: On the flip side"
In response to Reply # 94


          

>
>>and TW actually said that criticism of Snyder is
>>unfair. I mean, jesus. Are we in the same universe?
>
>Never said that. My general sentiment is the man hired a good
>GM and a great coach. Give them longer than 1 offseason to
>cry about every move they make.

I don't think Smuts was referring to you, I think he was talking about Tiger Woods reply in 22.

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 12:11 PM

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99. "Not you, TigerWoods"
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

>Never said that. My general sentiment is the man hired a good
>GM and a great coach. Give them longer than 1 offseason to
>cry about every move they make.

And I've taken issue with specific moves, don't make it out like my shit is mindless.


>
>Snyder's not selling the team. So what do we do? Bitch about
>moves made during an offseason that generally improves the
>team or continue to cry about Snyder regardless of what the
>Skins do?

I talk about the moves that are made and whether I think they're good.

If you think it's mindless bitching, prove me wrong or ignore the post. I don't really care.

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DonKnutts
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Tue Jul-27-10 12:16 PM

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101. "question: have the redskins made a positive move in the 2010 offseason?"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
33301 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 12:22 PM

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103. "Absolutely"
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

Of the more significant things that have happened:

Firing Cerrato

Firing Zorn

Drafting a LT was absolutely the right move

Hiring Shanahan to be *head coach* is a great move.

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ncr2h
Member since May 07th 2005
1224 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 01:59 PM

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115. "Uh...ok. These are all sweeping organizational changes that will "
In response to Reply # 103


          

have much more impact than the 3 draft picks we've given up so far (mitigated slightly by the draft picks we'll get in return from the Jammal Brown & Adam Carriker deals).

  

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smutsboy
Member since Jun 29th 2002
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Tue Jul-27-10 02:08 PM

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116. "Uh, ok."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

________________

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Tiger Woods
Member since Feb 15th 2004
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Tue Jul-27-10 07:22 PM

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118. "but dude I'm pretty sure I pointed out the flaws too no?"
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 12:07 PM

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98. "But no one ever said that Snyder changed "
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

or any of that other BS you keep pretending people are saying. Only that the article you posted was stupid because it attempted to compare apples to oranges and come out with lemons. Like I've told you five times in this post already...you should have made a post about McNabb and who we should have drafted instead instead of attaching yourself to a poorly written article and trying to defend it at any cost...

If you don't want people to believe you've caught the ghey for JC, don't act all butt hurt over him all of the time....

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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ChuckFoPrez
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Tue Jul-27-10 01:02 PM

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113. "oh shut the fuck up, eeyore."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/chuck4prez

  

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Phabel
Member since Mar 24th 2005
1972 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 01:32 PM

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114. "lol"
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

PSN ID: BDiesel

  

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Musa
Member since Mar 08th 2006
15789 posts
Tue Jul-27-10 07:18 PM

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117. "And I thought Philly fans were debbie downers"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

.

<----

Soundcloud.com/aquil84

(HIP HOP)
http://aquil.bandcamp.com

  

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