First of all im not trying to say this cat is wack. He is a good role player. Im just kinda tired of hearing that he is one of the greatest to ever pick up the rock. He was on the 50 greatest players EVER team. 50 fuckin greatest players ever?? Gimme a break. Cats seem to get real hostile too whenever i calmly say that Pippen benefited from Jordan. They seem to think that all those championships were something of a 50/50 split between Jordan and Pip. Thats utter bullshit. Would u ever have heard of Luc Longley and freakin Craig Hodges if it wasnt for the fact that Jordan was carrying the team. Pip played his role which was to hit the open j's get a few boards and basically play the sidekick. But what about Pip on his own 2 feet? When Jordan went to baseball everyone thought he was gonna carry the team to another ring. But he didnt even avg over 20 (Peja Stojavic is avg over 20 for the Kings) and im not even sure if the Bulls made it past the 1st round that year. The bottom line is that i question his greatness his heart (remember the headache thing about 5 yrs ago), and i seriously doubt he will ever win a title without MJ. He has a great supporting cast in Portland but they wont win the title. They dont have a leader (pip is a follower; evidenced by his embracing of them dumb ass headbands), and Pip is avg. 10 points a game. Which isnt bad but damn sure aint great. SO IS PIP OVERRATED? whats your opinion
---------------------------------------


Ima tell everybody that when it comes to pool Cowboy likes to cheat!!!!- Tony from Dead Presidents

"Im trying to get in to you not into you" - Shyne

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Bit$%es is full of shit, thats why they eyes brown - me

------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

I agree that he is not a true leader, but easy on the headbands they're ill! Plus maybe he did the headband thing to kinda form some chemistry.

most of them stopped rockin them, In Usa Today they said that most immature players ex. Darius Miles, Rasheed, Larry Hughes, are the ones that rock them, and a 35 yr old man like pippen shouldnt try to follow trends and shit
---------------------------------------


Ima tell everybody that when it comes to pool Cowboy likes to cheat!!!!- Tony from Dead Presidents

"Im trying to get in to you not into you" - Shyne

"You can deny the lies but you cant deny the truth" - Khujo- If u scurred

Bit$%es is full of shit, thats why they eyes brown - me

------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

Fuck USA Today the can't play ball! They inmature

Any number of 3-men could've scored high-teens alongside Jordan in the triangle offense of the early-mid ninties. Other than having above-average defense (considering most of the NBA doesn't even play D), what special skill does Scottie bring to the table?

Z

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He's one of the best defenders ever.
He's a great ballhandler for his size and a pretty decent passer.
But the only reason he's one of the 50 greatest players
is because he won 6 championships.

Cause otherwise......his accolades/stats just don't matchup.

Pippen's one of the 50 greatest for the same reason James Worthy is. He was the sidekick of arguably the greatest player(s) to ever touch a basketball.

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i think that if pippen was not with jordan while he was in his prime, that he would be a very good player, esp in the ttiple double area ...

but yeah, i don't think that jordan would have won as much withouth pippen - he was an integral part of the team. like one of the above post though, he's only 50 greatest cause he won 6 rings and play a huge part in getting them

and the year jordan bounced, pippen almost upset the knicks by taking them to game 7 - and this was the year the knicks made it to the finals, they were nice as hell that year.

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actually, the year after jordan retired(the first time), pippen averaged 22+ points per game and got 8 boards, 5 assists and 2 steals a game. pretty good numbers if you ask me, and the bulls made it to the second round. is he one of the 50 greatest ever? maybe, but making that judgement based on his play this year isn't fair. he was a damn good player back in the 90's and the bulls would have ZERO championshps without him.

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Portland needs a "leader" not "teamwork". there is no floor general in a mental sense. nobody has taken over so it was a wasted experiment. is that Scottie's fault? i can't say, but when M.J. left to play baseball Scottie took over to the tune of getting meaner and more aggressive as well as dunkin' on Ewing. so is he one of the 50 greatest? maybe. maybe not. i agree that Paxton should make that list if he did as we will never know how the 90's would have turned out for the whole franchise had they not teamed up Jordan and Pippen...


"Shit, them niggas is bad as hell and ain't nothing you can do about that but to accept it and go buy a postcard." - Anonymous

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My opinion he shouldn't have been one of the top 50 players. But media and the NBA equate greatness with championships, which isn't fair in a "team" game. In golf you can do that because its only you. But if someone like Ewing, Bernard King,Alex English, Dominique, etc doesn't win a championship they aren't held in the same light as someone who does..which is b.s. Some cat up at the top said hes a great ballhandler at his size...dude is 6'7. he better be able to handle the ball. i've seen 7 foot kevin garnett break a press. Nowadays that tall and able to handle the rock applies to all people coming up. Pippen was a great defender but you notice how he never held the spotlight in any of his teams...he went to Houston he played third behind chuck and hakeem,(which is understandable, barkley was still good back then, and hakeem was mvp) but at Portland a "top50 player" like Pippen should command respect and lead his team. not to mention lead his team in a few categories. But instead he's relegated to becoming a bench boy trying to rid rasheed's coattails like he did jordan all those years. Pippen was a great complement to Jordan all those years i wont deny that but one of the greatest 50 ever...nah....not to mention he whines too damn much, thats all cat does is whine about every single call. Always pleading with the refs...he gets no respect from me.

The image of Scottie for me will be when he sat on the bench at the end of a playoff game and wouldn't re-enter because Triangle Man didn't call his number for the last shot. Kukoc nails the game-winner and Scottie cements his place as a bitch for the ages. Mind you, this during the MJ gap, when Scottie was the man. Unfair to confine his legacy to one play? Mebbe, but this was the brief and only stretch in his career when he was supposed to be the heart of a team. Prognosis: to quote KRS, "Here's where the problem starts / No heart."

Bernard King was the mfing man. One of the best finishers off the wing when he was a Knick and rearranged his whole game after injury and became a devastating midrange shooter. I'd take BK over Pip in my sleep.

Has been for years......

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Thing about Pippen is that if u take 95 % of the guys from the NBA greatest team and put them on a the Trailblazers just after their prime, u best believe they would at least attempt to lead the team and/or be a floor general. Pippen is just the greatest sidekick of all time, and Worthy might even have been better because he didnt try to step on Magic's toes. It is a fact that Pippen relied on MJ but at the same time resented the fact that Jordan was the consumate scorer and team leader. Them cats barely spoke offcourt.

---------------------------------------


Ima tell everybody that when it comes to pool Cowboy likes to cheat!!!!- Tony from Dead Presidents

"Im trying to get in to you not into you" - Shyne

"You can deny the lies but you cant deny the truth" - Khujo- If u scurred

Bit$%es is full of shit, thats why they eyes brown - me

------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.

so the argument stands that he IS "overrated"...lol.


"Shit, them niggas is bad as hell and ain't nothing you can do about that but to accept it and go buy a postcard." - Anonymous

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and
>im not even sure if
>the Bulls made it past
>the 1st round that year.

Uhhh, HELLO, the Pippen-led Bulls not only made it past the first round, they took the Knicks to Game 7 in the Eastern Conference Finals. In fact, Pippen got the Bulls to the Conference finals without Jordan, but did Jordan do it without Pip there? NO. Know the facts before you spout your bullshit.

> The bottom line is
>that i question his greatness
>his heart (remember the headache
>thing about 5 yrs ago),
>and i seriously doubt he
>will ever win a title
>without MJ. He has a
>great supporting cast in Portland
>but they wont win the
>title. They dont have
>a leader (pip is a
>follower; evidenced by his embracing
>of them dumb ass headbands),
>and Pip is avg. 10
>points a game. Which isnt
>bad but damn sure aint
>great. SO IS PIP OVERRATED?
>whats your opinion

Sure, Pip has had his moments of questionable judgement. I will grant you that. But the man has six rings! How is that overrated?
He's second only to Jordan in Bulls career triple-doubles. How is that overrated? Scottie doesn't do shit for Portland because he doesn't have to. He doesn't have to touch the rock ever again and he will still be one of the best. He's a role player now, he's in the twilight of his career. What else does he have to prove?

And, as for the headband thing? So the fuck what? Every damn trend in the NBA came from somewhere else. You think Iverson was the first to sport tattoos and jail hair? Does that make him a follower too?

If you remember, too, the only reason the Bulls lost to the Knicks in the conference Finals that year was because Pippen got called with a phantom foul by Hue Hollins...

He played his ass off, and the man's D speaks for itself.

Up until Jordan started crushing in that last playoff series against the Jazz, it was Scottie who was the MVP of that series. He took a bunch of charges, shut down whoever they put him on, and then turned it over to Mike so Mike to do the Mike-stuff.

C'mon. He may not be transcendent like Mike or Wilt, but there aren't mayny threes (after Bird, Doc, and maybe Havlicek) that I'd want on my squad over Pip.

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Pippen is not out there playing a 100%. Pippen proved he was a true leader the "1ST"(93-94) year Mike was out of basketball. Disregard what you are seeing now because no one in Portland is playing to their potential.

Pippen did not care for the offense in Houston. He was not ready for the BS in Houston and had he stayed Stevie Francis would not be what he is today!

>
>First of all im not trying
>to say this cat is
>wack. He is a good
>role player. Im just
>kinda tired of hearing that
>he is one of the
>greatest to ever pick up
>the rock. He was
>on the 50 greatest players
>EVER team. 50 fuckin
>greatest players ever?? Gimme a
>break. Cats seem to
>get real hostile too whenever
>i calmly say that Pippen
>benefited from Jordan. They
>seem to think that all
>those championships were something of
>a 50/50 split between Jordan
>and Pip. Thats utter
>bullshit. Would u ever have
>heard of Luc Longley and
>freakin Craig Hodges if it
>wasnt for the fact that
>Jordan was carrying the team.
> Pip played his role
>which was to hit the
>open j's get a few
>boards and basically play the
>sidekick. But what about
>Pip on his own 2
>feet? When Jordan went to
>baseball everyone thought he was
>gonna carry the team to
>another ring. But he
>didnt even avg over 20
>(Peja Stojavic is avg over
>20 for the Kings) and
>im not even sure if
>the Bulls made it past
>the 1st round that year.
> The bottom line is
>that i question his greatness
>his heart (remember the headache
>thing about 5 yrs ago),
>and i seriously doubt he
>will ever win a title
>without MJ. He has a
>great supporting cast in Portland
>but they wont win the
>title. They dont have
>a leader (pip is a
>follower; evidenced by his embracing
>of them dumb ass headbands),
>and Pip is avg. 10
>points a game. Which isnt
>bad but damn sure aint
>great. SO IS PIP OVERRATED?
>whats your opinion
>---------------------------------------
>
>
>Ima tell everybody that when it
>comes to pool Cowboy likes
>to cheat!!!!- Tony from Dead
>Presidents
>
>"Im trying to get in to
>you not into you" -
>Shyne
>
>"You can deny the lies but
>you cant deny the truth"
>- Khujo- If u scurred
>
>
>Bit$%es is full of shit, thats
>why they eyes brown -
>me

PIP may be a tad overrated, but I just wanted to comment on your stats you put up there. Actually, the two years in which Jordan left basketball back in 94 and 95, Pippen had his highest averages ever in Points 22 a game, assists, steals, and rebounds. Also, he was All Star game MVP in 94. He finished 3rd in votes for MVP in 94. People tend to forget that Pippen has seen his better days, being 36 and all now. Of course he was never as good as JOrdan, but Pippen should be considered one of the 50 greatest. Pippen did almost lead the Bulls past the Knicks in the second round of the 94 playoffs as well, but was called on a silly foul that would eventually lead to the Bull's loss in game 7 of that series. The thing is that in 95, Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong left the team. That's why the Bulls werent to great in 95. Thus, leading to the signing of Ron Harper and Dennis Rodman that summer, plus the return of a rejuvinated Jordan. Of course the Bulls won the championship the next year. But Pippen can never be overlooked as being a big part of the Bull's championship years.

In '94, the Bulls played the knicks in the Eastern Conference FINALS.
Not just the second round
Not just the first round.

The fucking Finals.
Got it?

1. If many people admit to Pippen being a better all-around player than Jordan, that alone should speak for itself
2. Pippen led the Bulls to the SECOND ROUND in that Knick series (I'm a Knick fan, I remember this vividly)....The Knicks eliminated the Nets in the first round, then the Bulls, then the Pacers en route to the finals.
3. Pippen is unfairly judged because he's held in comparison to Jordan offensively. He wasn't as good a offensive player as Jordan (who was), but other than that, Pip goes toe-to-toe with Mike.
4. Pippen is WAY BETTER than Worthy. Worthy was not as good as people made him out to be, Pippen was.
5. The headband shit is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. That's like saying the Knicks were immature when they all shaved their heads and wore black sneakers when they would go to the playoffs, that's bullshit...I like the headband shit, shows team unity
6. I do agree that Pippen wouldn't be considered as one of the all-time 50 greats if he didn't win 6 titles. But he was a vital part of that team, there was no way Jordan would have won a title without Pippen (and Jordan admitted this when the Bulls were breaking up due to the Reinsdorf/Krause dispute)

As much as I hated the Bulls, I'll give credit where it's due...Pippen isn't a bad choice for one of the 50 greats, especially considering the cats that made the list (Worthy, Shaq, Walton), he earned all my respect with that dunk on Ewing (DAMN)...although those 6 rings DEFINITELY helped his chances

Peace
Rex

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Well i never said that Pippen was a loser. I just said he was overatted. I thought the Bulls were eliminated in the 1st round in 93. I was wrong, they made it to the 2nd round in 93 and 94. But they got trampled on in 94 in the 2nd round. My whole argument was that pippen was/is overrated. I feel that if you would have cast any number of GOOD players in Pippens role (ie. Spree, Glenn Rice (in his prime), hell Dirk Nowitzki, they would have still had 6 rings. Im not a big MJ fan but he was a once in a lifetime player who made everyone around him ten times better. He was a natural born leader. I remember tagging Pippen as a crybaby when he refused to go in for that play in the playoffs because the play wasnt designed for him. toni Kukoc took the game winner and Pippen said he had a "headache", thats some Loren Woods shit. But like i said Pip put up some good numbers 17.5 a game in his career, but to say that he was so much better than Big Game James is ignorant. James had more talent around him and still managed to put up very, very similar numbers. He was the consumate self sacrificing player. His D wasnt as good as Pips, but everytime Kareem or Magic missed a key bucket, James was there. Everytime Magic or Kareem was D'd up, James was there to hit the bucket. How many Times has Pip heaved up 4 or 5 threes and missed them badly and hit a big shot at the end and everyone would say ohhh pippen is great!! but shit if he would have hit the open buckets when he had them earlier who knows if the score would have been close or not? bottom line: Pippen is good not great. And he is past is prime, but damn hes the same age as Dikembe and Reggie and they still ballin thats no fuckin excuse
---------------------------------------


Ima tell everybody that when it comes to pool Cowboy likes to cheat!!!!- Tony from Dead Presidents

"Im trying to get in to you not into you" - Shyne

"You can deny the lies but you cant deny the truth" - Khujo- If u scurred

Bit$%es is full of shit, thats why they eyes brown - me

------------------------------
Now lets take a moment to ponder the depth, brilliance, and emotional gravity of Mr Reds above statement.