Am i the only one who HATES these lil rugrats? These cats are like 11/12 years old (or at least they should be), pointing their bats to centerfield, thinking theyre sammy sosa, and just overall showing disgraceful acts of poor sportsmanship. Their coach should be ashamed. Id rather watch some overpaid whining mahfucka's from the MLB anyday over these spoiled wanna-be's.

damn man...they that much better then you.....

breathe man....breathe...






let's go mets...: )

so you think their sportsmanship/behavior is appropriate?

let em have their fun.

if they're really serious about the game as they get older, i'm sure some coach will straighten em out...but for now, i think it's exciting & fun...can't remember the last time i watched the LL World Series and it's due to those lil buggers.....

the game is taught in little league, as well as sportsmanship. if they act like total assclowns now, they will continue to do so for the rest of their playing careers.

how many on this board can tell our peers to "look out for me on sportscenter tonight"????...absolutely no one (unless a few pros hang out on the boards that i don't know about)...so my point is while the spotlight is on you go all out....you don't wanna look back at your highlights and be like is shoulda did this/that!!!!!....plus they've drawn me to watch the series too....i've never in my 25 yrs. of existence have watched the "preview" channel trying to see when a boring ass BASEBALL game was gonna come on..that was until the harlem little leaguers came thru!!!!!

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Imagine them being white and get over it. There just kids you idiot let them have fun.

>Imagine them being white and get over it. There just kids
>you idiot let them have fun.

no, youre the fuckin idiot. nothing to do with their race. they dont get a free pass cause their black, so get the fuck outta here with that shit.

Ha Ha your ignorant who said anything about a free pass?
You must be white cause thats something a typical white person says. Especialy when a black person defends another black person.

well if your not implying that its free pass, then what are you implying? cause im already telling you that if it were white kid acting this ridiculously, there would undoubtedly be the same outcry. Probably even more of an outcry if they were from a rich town or something as opposed to harlem. so throwing that shit out the window, what is it then? do you follow sports, or are you just some irate activist throwing your unimportant opinions into the mix here? are you aware of baseball etiquette, more importantly etiquette at the little league level??....and yes, i am white, its irrelevant, cause we're talking BASEBALL here, nothing else.

somebody needs a hug.

Would you have sympathy for a lion that wants a gun to kill prey with?

They're kids man.
Why you're old ass tryin to piss on their parade. They ain't even suppose to be able to get that far. Look at their uniforms all tattered and shit. I LOVE'EM!!

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i was hoping for you to tell me to "shut the flock up" again....if i woulda known this post woulda brought over the activists, i woulda never started it....sheesh.

>i was hoping for you to tell me to "shut the flock up"
>again.....

lol you like dat dare huh?
yeah I like dat I like dat!!

"Ways that are right take long days and nights"-Killa Priest

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

The whole team wasn't acting like that. It was just that one fat kid. Don't judge an entire team based upon what one player does. Second of all, they're just kids. Let them have their fun.

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seemed like there was two of em....doessnt make it right.

can yall chill with this 'stop overreacting' 'somebody needs a hug shit'? would i 'need a hug' if i was complaining about my teams shitty trade? no, so get off that. this is a valid sports topic thats getting major coverage and i feel its worth discussng, if you dont want to partake in it on a somewhat serious level than dont comment. i dont care that theyre kids, because this is where the game and sportamanship (on and off the field) is taught. lessons learned at this age stick with you forever. if u plan on letting your kids act like spoiled brats, then thats your decision. just know your gonna be raising some pretty shitty kids though. im waiting for a fellow true baseball head from the board to come and back me up. someone whos been involved in coaching little leaguue (no matter what sport), or better yet a parent, cause im sure they would agree with me.

see...the thing is that you sound realllllly perturbed.....can't help but think you need to ease up a bit...

do i think they should be calling shots...nah i don't..and i would have hit his ass if it was me pitching...

>
>do i think they should be calling shots...nah i don't..and i
>would have hit his ass if it was me pitching...

that was the only point i was trying to prove....

the fact that you're getting so worked up about 11 and 12 year olds is quite evident of that.

>lessons
>learned at this age stick with you forever.

no. do you act now how you did when you were 11? of course not. they're kids, they're having fun. let it go. now breathe out. easy isn't it?

>the fact that you're getting so worked up about 11 and 12
>year olds is quite evident of that.

whose getting worked up? i presented a topic for conversation, nothing more, nothing less. for you or anyone else to try and determine how 'worked up' i am through a computer screen is idiotic. if were having a conversation face to face, and i was screaming and getting all red-faced, then ya, but we're not face to face so u dont know.

>
>>lessons
>>learned at this age stick with you forever.
>
>no. do you act now how you did when you were 11?

definitly not. but when i did act up at that age, especially on the ballfield, i was sure as hell told that i was acting like a bafoon, and i didnt do it again. its the age where you learn right from wrong and how to behave properly in competition. its the responsiblity of the coaches/parents to tell these kids whats up....but intstead it gets glamourized all over sportscenter.

>now
>breathe out. easy isn't it?

right back at u.

>whose getting worked up? i presented a topic for
>conversation, nothing more, nothing less. for you or
>anyone else to try and determine how 'worked up' i am
>through a computer screen is idiotic. if were having a
>conversation face to face, and i was screaming and getting
>all red-faced, then ya, but we're not face to face so u dont
>know.

well, out of 19 posts, you account for 8 of them. not to mention you calling people "fucking idiot"s. that kind of connotes that you're a little to passionate about this topic considering it's overall importance (even in the realm of sports).

>
>well, out of 19 posts, you account for 8 of them.

well ya, i started this post to discuss it, i dont see how that implies i got steam comin' out my ears and shit.


>not to
>mention you calling people "fucking idiot"s.

while somewhat juvenile, who was called an 'idiot' first? not too mention the fact that the dude kinda insulted me by turning it into a racial issue, which i didnt appreciate.

point not proved. try again.

exactly why this is a bad thing?

Nobody is mad at Babe Ruth for doing it.

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

Really. White people be crrrackin me up.
I don't understand ya'lls logic sometime.

I was Hip Hop b4 Hip Hop had rules.

"Ways that are right take long days and nights"-Killa Priest

Purchase my EP 'No More Hip Hop' at Isolatedwax.com or hit me at peaceshine3@yahoo.com

PeaceShine (AKA Pablo)can be found on:
Executive Lounge-Self Titled @ 75ark.com (available in some stores)
My Vinyl Weighs a Ton-PB Wolf Track 8 (In stores everywhere)

"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

everything goes back to dick envy
lol


>Really. White people be crrrackin me up.
>I don't understand ya'lls logic sometime.
>
>I was Hip Hop b4 Hip Hop had rules.
>
>"Ways that are right take long days and nights"-Killa Priest
>
>Purchase my EP 'No More Hip Hop' at Isolatedwax.com or hit
>me at peaceshine3@yahoo.com
>
>PeaceShine (AKA Pablo)can be found on:
>Executive Lounge-Self Titled @ 75ark.com (available in some
>stores)
>My Vinyl Weighs a Ton-PB Wolf Track 8 (In stores everywhere)

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u comparing babe ruth to some 11-year old little leaguer?? please man, just realize what your saying.

man


>u comparing babe ruth to some 11-year old little leaguer??
>please man, just realize what your saying.

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if it's such outrageously poor sportmanship for the kid to do it, why isn't it for babe ruth? (and don't dodge the issue with some "it never really happened")

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

>if it's such outrageously poor sportmanship for the kid to
>do it, why isn't it for babe ruth?

did anybody say that what babe ruth did was in good taste? I didnt. I woulda plunked babe ruth his next at-bat, just as i wouldve this kid. and do you think that babe ruth and some 11 year old kid are in the same league and can get away with the same shit?? its a joke. turning this into a racial thing is just a bad joke.

>(and don't dodge the
>issue with some "it never really happened")

well it didnt buddy, but whatever. glad you saw the movie about it.

>and do you think that babe ruth and
>some 11 year old kid are in the same league and can get away
>with the same shit??

Ok now at least you are admitting there are 2 different standards being employed. But why does Babe deserve more slack than the kid? Between an 12 year old kid and a grown man who is a role model for millions, I'd think you should have HIGHER expectations for the Babe, rather than lower.

>its a joke. turning this into a
>racial thing is just a bad joke.

The only bad joke is denying that race and culture are a factor in how people are reacting to this. I mean, I never even mentioned race, yet you still felt the need to say that, this is proof enough of how these issues are constantly bubbling under the surface.

>>(and don't dodge the
>>issue with some "it never really happened")
>
>well it didnt buddy, but whatever. glad you saw the movie
>about it.

I am well aware that the truth of this story is disputed. But contrary to your assertion, it is not a proven fact that he DIDN'T do it either, nobody really knows.

But regardless you are missing the point, I explained below that whether he did it or not is irrelevant to this discussion, perhaps you did not read. Whether truth or fiction everybody has heard of that story (including this kid, obviously), and I never hear anybody react to it with the same scorn directed at this young man. I want to know why.

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

>
>Ok now at least you are admitting there are 2 different
>standards being employed.

havent i admitted that from the start? sorry, but being one of the greatest baseball players off all time grants you some privilages that little leagurs dont recieve. And why is the sole focus on the 'pointing the bat' issue. There was a whole lot more to it than that. Truthfully, i thought the kid pointing the bat was just embarassing (for him), especially since he didnt even hit a home run (double off an error). I had more of an issue with the shirt pumping and the 'im the man' shit. cause he most definitly aint the man, which is my big problem with this little league team....that they need to get over themselves already.

>But why does Babe deserve more
>slack than the kid? Between an 12 year old kid and a grown
>man who is a role model for millions, I'd think you should
>have HIGHER expectations for the Babe, rather than lower.

probably true, but this gets back to the whole 'it never happened' issue, therefore nobody has ever seriously discussed the ramifications of what he may or may not have done. and if you wanna get crazy technical on the folklore of the story, if i recall correctly, wasnt the bat pointing in response to a showing of disrespect from the other team?? but like i said, its irrelevant....Plus, as far as exposure and influence on others behavior goes, being put on full blast on sportscenter put it on the same level as that myth.


>I mean, I never
>even mentioned race

uhhh, yes you did.

"and it is not regarded with any of the scorn or disapproval being heaped upon this young black man for doing the same thing. there is clearly a double standard."

to me that sounds like YOU bringing up the race issue....and believe me, i would have been happier if you didnt, so it wasnt like i was looking for it.

>yet you still felt the need to say
>that, this is proof enough of how these issues are
>constantly bubbling under the surface.

thats total bullshit, and not really fair to say, considering this whole post has been about race, and attacking me over my race(which im in tears about btw)....so the racial issue was way above the surface before you chimed in.

>I am well aware that the truth of this story is disputed.
>But contrary to your assertion, it is not a proven fact that
>he DIDN'T do it either, nobody really knows.

i guess, i dont know, i dont care.

>But regardless you are missing the point, I explained below
>that whether he did it or not is irrelevant to this
>discussion, perhaps you did not read.

no, i read it, and agreed somewhat....i just dont care as its relevance to the harlem little league team is of little signifigance.

>Whether truth or
>fiction everybody has heard of that story (including this
>kid, obviously), and I never hear anybody react to it with
>the same scorn directed at this young man. I want to know
>why.

to recap:

a. the babe ruth story is an arguable myth, this incident happened for sure, for everyone to see.

b. 11-year old little leagurs dont have as much clout as babe ruth, point blank.


and to address your other post....

>People constantly talk about this "showboating" being such an >outrageous offense, but they never articulate exactly what is >wrong with it.

well i guess its hard to articulate, and im tired of all this at this point truthfully, so all i can say is that its just disrespectful to the game and disrescpectful to the other team. same shit as acting like an asshole in school or in the workplace. whats so bad about it? i dunno. but eventually you wont get to far in whatever path in life you pursue. i guess its just about hurting yourself. what it comes down to (and what this whole topic comes down to), is if you were the coach, or the parents of these players, would you want your kids/players acting in a similar fashion? i know my answer, if your answer is different, than thats fine.

>This is *sports* we're talking about here. A bunch of people >dressed up in pajamas playing with balls.

well i have a little bit more respect for sports than that. if you dont, thats fine. i dont know whether your a sports fan or not, but it seems like this post has brought over a lot of non-sports fans or former players, who are unable to see it from that perspective.

>What's wrong with
>expressing your pride, and have a little fun with it?

theres a fine line with expressing your pride and having a little fun, then acting like total idiots.

>It seems pretty clear to me there are cultural differences at >play here, and the discussion won't get very far until that >aspect is acknowledged.


well apparently there are some cultural differences, cause im realizing that had this been a white team from beverly hills, you all would be buggin out a lot harder than i supposedly am....but what cultural difference are you referring to specifically? Does the fact that im a 20 year old white male from new york city somehow blind me from seeing how 'wonderful' these harlem kids are? This is a baseball issue. and ive been playing/watching baseball all my life, and never been excluded from understanding a situation due to my race.

but like i said, im sorry i ever started this post, its giving me a headache at this point, so hopefully it will go away so i wont feel compelled to respond anymore.

>"and it is not regarded with any of the scorn or disapproval
>being heaped upon this young black man for doing the same
>thing. there is clearly a double standard."
>to me that sounds like YOU bringing up the race issue....and
>believe me, i would have been happier if you didnt, so it
>wasnt like i was looking for it.

That quote is not from my conversation with you. But regardless, I've never said anywhere in the thread that this was "a racial issue", I said race and culture are *factors", more than some would care to see or admit.

>well i have a little bit more respect for sports than that.
>if you dont, thats fine. i dont know whether your a sports
>fan or not, but it seems like this post has brought over a
>lot of non-sports fans or former players, who are unable to
>see it from that perspective.

I am a lifelong sports fan who grew up watching street ball at rucker park, where there is more "trash-talking" and "showboating" than anywhere in sports. And I never saw anybody get hurt by it, in fact it made the games a lot more fun and exciting to watch.

>well apparently there are some cultural differences, cause
>im realizing that had this been a white team from beverly
>hills, you all would be buggin out a lot harder than i
>supposedly am....

I really don't think that is the case.

>but what cultural difference are you
>referring to specifically? Does the fact that im a 20 year
>old white male from new york city somehow blind me from
>seeing how 'wonderful' these harlem kids are? This is a
>baseball issue. and ive been playing/watching baseball all
>my life, and never been excluded from understanding a
>situation due to my race.

I'm not saying you are blind, but you perceive that kid's actions differently than some others would, and ascribe different meaning to it. Differences in culture help to shape these differences in perception.

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

>
>I'm not saying you are blind, but you perceive that kid's
>actions differently than some others would, and ascribe
>different meaning to it. Differences in culture help to
>shape these differences in perception.

so its not my race but my culture that forces me to percieve their actions differently? well besides me being from a different bourough as these kids, our culture seems rather similar, or at least 'similar enough'....i think my point is, is that there is no rule that says you have to be turned off by their behavior, its just a matter of opinion, that has nothing to do with race OR culture.

The called shot is a myth.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

you callin babe ruth a liar! -(seinfeld)

whether it actually happened or not is a part of baseball folklore, and it is not regarded with any of the scorn or disapproval being heaped upon this young black man for doing the same thing. there is clearly a double standard.

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

as a little leaguer on a team alot like the HARLEM one, we did that shit...all of it, pointing to the sky, gold chains n shit, talking smack, one handed yanks like ricky henderson, and peoplke didnt like it, but who gives a fuck, only the losing team or some older white cats didnt like it, everyone else thought it was fun....I mean heck we won the title like 7 years in a row...like my whole fam aint lost a game n shit..i played for 3 years and it was in all..let the shortys express themselves.

if thats the way you feel, then thats cool, was just lookin for some opinions....

I feel you man. The kids are in Little League... dammit, the rugrats aren't even paid millions and they're acting like they're the shit. MAYBE 4 players total in the finals will even get a sniff of even the minor leagues. "But hey, I called my shot in Little League" lol


Humility went out with the 20th century. Showing out has always been a cry for attention. People forget the just winning will get you all the attention you need.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

for the Pathmark break room.

...

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

sorry the post doesnt meet your standards knutts.

The are the top selling t-shirts.


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answer the question


>sorry the post doesnt meet your standards knutts.

RadicalMan2045 Report Card

Post of the Month: "He
doesn't deserve a site, but
he does deserve for you to
put up a song by him or the
time every other day. On a
meshell site. I see the point
in that," lovely1 said, in
response to the biggest
prince bootlegger on
okayplayer.com.


The Lost Tapes A+
Wild Card A-
Trinity A+
Thug Holiday B+
All I Have D-
Headphone Masterpiece A
Prince's Internet Managers F
Prophets vs Profits B-
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banned for life

answer what question? oh wait, i dont have time, i need to go check in at my local KKK chapter....

People constantly talk about this "showboating" being such an outrageous offense, but they never articulate exactly what is wrong with it.

This is *sports* we're talking about here. A bunch of people dressed up in pajamas playing with balls. What's wrong with expressing your pride, and have a little fun with it? People act like these kids are giving lapdances at a funeral or something. It ain't that serious.

It seems pretty clear to me there are cultural differences at play here, and the discussion won't get very far until that aspect is acknowledged.

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

NM

The Harlem coach yelling at his players for "Hot Dogging"??? He said the Ump came to him and said that if any players were showboating, they would be tossed.

I guess that's the end of that.

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there are DEFINITELY cultural issues at play here...
also, i am very proud of that little boy's comment who was "swaggering"...
GO HARLEM!


Harlem will play Worcester, Mass., at 7 p.m. tomorrow in their semifinal contest. The winner advances to Saturday's U.S. Championship game.

Pitcher Javier Lopez, who went the distance yesterday, kept the kids from Aptos, Calif., swinging at the air, striking out 11 batters with 73 mph fastballs.

But Harlem's bats didn't come alive until the bottom of the fourth inning, when Alibay Barkley got his 184-pound frame into a pitch and drove it over the left field fence. Two batters later, Andrew Diaz crushed a two-run homer to give Harlem a 3-2 lead.

"That was a bomb," Aptos manager Dave Anderson, a former Major League Baseball player, told his downcast pitcher after Diaz's blast.

But when Diaz rounded third base with a little too much swagger in his home run trot, Little League officials gave Harlem a warning about unsportsmanlike conduct.

Harlem manager Morris McWilliams was livid, lambasting his players, telling them to cut out the "hot dog" antics and just score some more runs.

"I got too excited," the 12-year-old Diaz said after the game. "I'm sorry for what I did. I wasn't thinking."

Jeremy Lopez gave Harlem some insurance runs in the bottom of the fifth inning, when he clobbered a pitch out of Howard J. Lamade Stadium to up the score to 5-2.

Javier Lopez, who threw more than 100 pitches, held the West champs scoreless in the sixth inning, capping the win by striking out the last batter he faced.

Chants and cowbells

As the Harlem squad mobbed each other on the field to celebrate the triumph, their parents and fans clanged cowbells and chanted "Harlem! Harlem! Harlem!"

"We play the game the same, we do the same things. The stakes are just higher," McWilliams said.

"As I look back, this group of kids brought so many people joy, and we can't lose sight of that," he said.

Manhattan Borough President Virginia Fields was among the Harlem boosters rooting in the stands. "This is such a joy seeing these kids get this far," she said. "I'm just so excited. Yes!"

until the kid last night hot-dogging around the base paths. that made me cringe. it's one thing to be excited, and it's another to exhibit a total lack of respect for your opponent. i'm glad the coach got mad.

That kid last night was over the top. when you cross the line into straight mocking the other team, that does concern me, especially wwhen it comes to young kids. and i think he was over that line.

But the media's coverage of this does not seem to be driven by concern for the other kids, so much as these lofty notions of the sanctity of "the game", the idea that these kids are "disrespecting The Game".

It seems to be driven by a belief that it is inherently undignified to be emotionally demonstrative. And that is where I think cultural differences come into play.

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

>That kid last night was over the top.

not trying to challenge you, because youre entitled to your opinion, but what was so different about last nights antics? both were acts of 'straight mocking' the other team.


>
>But the media's coverage of this does not seem to be driven
>by concern for the other kids, so much as these lofty
>notions of the sanctity of "the game", the idea that these
>kids are "disrespecting The Game".

nobody cares about the 'other kids', theyll get over it. i think its more out of concern for the kids who are actually doing it, and doing themselves a disservice.

>not trying to challenge you, because youre entitled to your
>opinion, but what was so different about last nights antics?
> both were acts of 'straight mocking' the other team.

The other kid's sammy sosa routine was nowhere near as over the top as last night's home run trot.

>>But the media's coverage of this does not seem to be driven
>>by concern for the other kids, so much as these lofty
>>notions of the sanctity of "the game", the idea that these
>>kids are "disrespecting The Game".
>
>nobody cares about the 'other kids', theyll get over it. i
>think its more out of concern for the kids who are actually
>doing it, and doing themselves a disservice.

Right, this is exactly what I don't get. If you DON'T feel they are hurting the other kid's feelings, then what is the problem? If nobody else is getting hurt by it, how are they doing themselves a disservice, unless it is inherently undignified to be emotionally demonstrative?

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

>The other kid's sammy sosa routine was nowhere near as over
>the top as last night's home run trot.

can u explain why though, specifically?

>

>
>Right, this is exactly what I don't get. If you DON'T feel
>they are hurting the other kid's feelings, then what is the
>problem? If nobody else is getting hurt by it, how are they
>doing themselves a disservice, unless it is inherently
>undignified to be emotionally demonstrative?

ok, you admitted that you didnt like the home-run trot yesterday....right? Could you describe that as 'poor behavior' or 'unacceptable behavior'? well, im gonna assume that youre in agreement so far. the harlem kids were doing themselves a disservice because when a kid acts in an unacceptable fashion, and recieves no punishment for it, he continues to do it. sure, theyre 11/12 years old and its not a big deal, but the behavior will continue. and ultimately it could lead to a situation, whether it be in athletics, school, work, etc., where your rejected or fail to reach your potential because of your behavior. not making a team, failing to get a promotion, u can name anything. would you have gotten as far in your career if you constantly acted like an asshole towards colleagues or people of authority? im guessing not. just to use myself an example, i can remember trying out for an elite summer league team, where i was by no means the best player, and whether i was on the team or not wouldnt have made a tremendous difference to our record. but it was expected i would make the team and be one of the first few guys off the bench. anyways, i acted like a dickhead in tryouts for various reasons, and the coach basically said 'why do i need to put up with this kids shit'? and he was right, and i learned a lesson from it. all im saying is that i think little league and athletics at that age teaches you a lot of life lessons that can and will be applied later in life. its important that youre taught right from wrong. i think what these kids have been doing is wrong, and i wouldve told them so, thats it. you just said that what you felt the kid did yesterday was wrong, so i would think you could at least appreciate some of the things im saying here.

Mike Freeman is back.

SPORTS OF THE TIMES

Hotdogging Just Part of the Game
By MIKE FREEMAN

O here we go again. Another Little Leaguer does a little hotdogging and the sports world fibrillates. Oh, the humanity.

Last week, a Harlem player called his home run shot, then just missed, ending up with a double that nevertheless caused a stir. Now comes Andrew Diaz, who did so much showboating during Harlem's 5-2 victory over Aptos, Calif., yesterday that he should have his own Las Vegas revue. After smacking a go-ahead home run, Diaz celebrated as he rounded the bases, waving his hands frantically and, as he passed third, doing a little dance.

But Diaz didn't stop there. As he got closer to home plate, he straddled the baseline in what had to be the longest celebration of a home run in Little League World Series history.

Was this a baseball game or "Soul Train"?

•  •  • 


Morris McWilliams, the Harlem manager, admonished Diaz, and Diaz apparently violated the league's unsportsmanlike conduct rules.

Admonish all you want, but the dance genie is out of the bottle. Kids have eyes. There is a trail of professional athletes that goes back decades who have been virtual instructors in the classroom of hotdogging: Muhammad Ali, Deion Sanders, Billy (White Shoes) Johnson, Mark Gastineau and Terrell Owens, to name a few. Babe Ruth supposedly called his home run shot in the 1932 World Series against the Chicago Cubs. On and on it goes.

One of the reasons the National Football League banned excessive celebration was to prevent a downward seepage to the children watching their heroes on television.

Guess the ban came a tad too late.

But let's not be shy about digging into what may be the real heart of this controversy with the Harlem players. A lot of why the Harlem kids celebrate excessively has to do with race and culture. To say it is not would be thoroughly dishonest.

To many blacks and Latinos, the dances and the showing off are simply no big deal. In fact, it's kind of funny. The idea that this is some self-destructive thing that ruins sportsmanship is absolutely ridiculous, as if a little dance while running the basepaths will lead to young kids' becoming Enron executives. After the games, the kids shake hands, they congratulate each other for a good game, and they pat each other on the back. When the game is over, they are good sports. That is what counts.

When the game is on, they are having fun, pumping themselves up. To blacks, that is important, too. In fact it is more than that. To blacks it is a vital part of the game.

Many of us look at this controversy and ask: just what exactly is the problem?

Again, it is cultural. This is what I saw all the time growing up. The whites who had mostly black friends showboated and talked trash, too. The idea was to play hard and have fun, even if it was at the expense of your opponent.

Of course, what works in Washington or Chicago or Harlem may not work in a suburb.

There is also a great deal of hypocrisy happening here. Where was the chorus of objections from parents when ESPN decided to put so many Little League tournament games on television, where announcers are doing play-by-play, for goodness' sake, and the coaches are miked as they are on the sidelines during a "Monday Night Football" game?

With all of that hyperbole, of course kids were going to turn into Deion mini-me's and preteen ham sandwiches.

•  •  • 


Want to stop a lot of this? Take the Little League games off television. But that won't happen, because parents want the games broadcast, since one day their kids could be stars on ESPN or ABC.

And remember, showboating has its pitfalls. In high school football, the guy who talked too much garbage was often the one who got hit the hardest. One man's dancer is another man's target.

It's also interesting to watch various sportswriters hyperventilate as they climb on a high horse to say how awful what the Harlem kids are doing is. Pssst. . . . come closer. How about I let you in on a little secret? Sportswriters are some of the most ill-mannered, ill-tempered and unsportsmanlike people around, and few of us played in the Little League World Series. So what's our excuse?

If we want to teach our children about sportsmanship, tell them to play hard and try to win, tell them about honesty. Tell them if they do showboat in a game, make sure to face your opponents, and shake their hands, and talk about how they got caught up in the emotion and how there are no hard feelings.

Most of all, tell them to be themselves.

I was kinda with 3XKrazy for awhile on this. I think the kids should be taught good sportsmanship, sure...
But then again, reading this NYTimes piece, I can see the other side of it too. I grew up with the braggadocio and all that sometimes, too, and I'm OK. We were just having fun.
Everybody got all worked up about Sosa's HR celebration, and I remember thinkin, what's the big deal? It's a cultural thing. Not meant to show you up, just to pump himself up. The high fives, all that...
I didnt see this kid hotdogging on the HR, so I'll allow that I may totally wrong here. I mean it's not like the kids are doing the throat-slash at the other dugout, rt? (Wondering if I shoulda opened that can of worms...)
Also, baseball is particularly harsh on individual touches. Derek Bell got harassed when he wore his Mets uni all baggy. They tried to tell Deion he couldnt go sleeveless, and then the whole team cut their sleeves off too.
F'real, I dont think this is that big a deal.

I'm not a traitor
if what you got is greater I'll trade
but maybe later cuz my waiter made potato -n- alligator souflee--
I got it made
--Special Ed

thanks. I'll have to look out for this guy's work.

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

one of the few black writers in the sportswriters fraternity ... caught a lot of flack for posting something on a sports journalism web site (forget the url) about some negative treatment he received as beat reporter for the Jets. like everything, sports journalism is an ol' boys network. Freeman had the sack to step up and challenge it.

first of all, so glad that this topic has become interesting enough for you....secondly, my prob with the article, is that it continues to promote this theory that showboating is strictly an 'urban/black' thing. like, "its a black thing, you just wouldnt understand". thats nonsense. white kids are do it just as much as black kids. you dont think they showboat out in white-farming towns in nebraska? its goes on in every area, with kids of all races. which is why i dont agree with the cultrual/racial feelings on this issue.

btw, if i posted a thread on this board entitled 'why is that black kids showboat and whites dont?', what kind of response do you think i would get?

he makes some good points about the differences in urban/suburban culture. but he's missing baseball culture. players in the major leagues simply cannot get away with dance routines on the basepaths because of the resultant beanball. due to its single elimination nature and relatively small size of the combatants, little league doesn't have the same deterrent to hotdogging.

if this controversy was over basketball or football, i think freeman's points would be more applicable. baseball is simply not a sport that tolerates this behaviour on any level. even while giving comparing the harlem kids' entics to professional athletes, he didn't give any examples of baseball players other than babe ruth.

football and baseketball culture used to be the same untill blacks basicly took over the professional leagues, baseball is still a redneck sport where white players and their traditions, thats why blacks really aren't into baseball, there is no room for individualized personality.... thats why white sports writers are soo up in arms.... you might be able to do that in basketball but not in redneck filled baseball anyway baseball is gay

Good point about baseball culture, but I don't think that invalidates Freeman's position. It may just illustrate that baseball culture is more dominated by that suburban sensibility than other sports.

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

is that the premise of this article is based on a stereotype. Buying into stereotypes is lazy.

Diaz's display after his homerun was a f'n disgrace. At last year's LLWS, a team from the Bronx won the whole f'n thing, and there was not one display of dancing or clowning. So, to write this off as a -black thing- is a cop-out.

The issue is about teaching children self-control and class. The -let them have their fun- school of thought is lazy.

it must be bad...... school of though is just as fuckin lazy

Agreed.
Where did I type any comparison to white behavior?

>it must be bad...... school of though is just as fuckin lazy

thats what im saying. it isnt a case of only black kids doing it. EVERYONE does it.

>is that the premise of this article is based on a
>stereotype. Buying into stereotypes is lazy.

Dismissing an idea you are uncomfortable with as a stereotype, without honestly assessing its accuracy, is lazy.

>Diaz's display after his homerun was a f'n disgrace. At
>last year's LLWS, a team from the Bronx won the whole f'n
>thing, and there was not one display of dancing or clowning.
> So, to write this off as a -black thing- is a cop-out.

He did not "write it off as a black thing", he insisted that race and culture are a *factor*, which some would like to ignore. It's funny he's dismissed as "lazy" for challenging others to recognize the complexity of the issue and seek a less simplistic viewpoint.

http://www.illdoctrine.com - where hip-hop vlogs?

I think both black and white people need to be careful what they consider race related behavior bc there is not one act that is exclusive to one race or impossible for another.

In terms of the little league thing

Kids are showboats. Adults SHOULD teach the kids showboating is useless. End of Story.

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needs to teach them about sportsmanship....

If I was out on the field poppin my collar like that....my daddy would have walked out on the diamond and whupped my azz in front of the espn cameras..lol.

Series dream ends
for Harlem's stars



By RALPH R. ORTEGA in Williamsport, Pa.
and BILL HUTCHINSON in New York
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Harlem pitcher Jeremy Lopez walks off mound after surrendering game-winning, three-run homer in bottom of sixth.

The Harlem Little Leaguers' magical summer ride came to a heartbreaking end last night.
The uptown kids were bounced from the Little League World Series after Worcester, Mass., beat them 5-2 to earn a spot in the U.S. championship game tomorrow.

The nail-biting thriller ended when Worcester's Ryan Griffin clobbered his first-ever home run, a three-run blast in the bottom of the sixth inning that broke a 2-2 tie.


"I really don't want to go home because I wanted us to play in the U.S. final," Harlem manager Morris McWilliams said after the tough loss. "It's like, 'Wow, man, it's over.'"


After seeing their amazing run come to an abrupt halt, the Harlem players walked off the field at Howard J. Lamade Stadium with their heads high and their lips quivering. But none of the 11- and 12-year-olds shed a tear until they reached the dugout.


"Just walk with your head up," said Harlem's Dominique Brown-Jiles, 12. "There's no crying in baseball."


Despite the loss, Harlem's boisterous boosters gave their heroes a standing ovation, letting them know they did all New Yorkers proud.


"There's nothing to be ashamed of," said Nathalie White, the mother of Harlem catcher Spencer White. "We did our thing. Now our babies can go home."


Dwight Raiford, who co-founded the Harlem Little League in 1989 with his wife, said the players' run at the World Series lifted the whole community.


"To be one of the four best teams in the United States is just a wonderful tribute," said Raiford, who also serves as the national chairman of Little League Baseball. "These kids will go home heroes. The community is just so proud of what they've done on and off the field."


The Harlem players showed good sportsmanship after the defeat, tipping their caps to the Worcester players, with whom they had forged friendships at the regional tournament in Bristol, Conn.


Mutual respect


"It's a great offensive club," Worcester manager Fran Granger said of the Harlem team. "From one to nine, every one of those kids on that team is a hitter."


The Harlem players go home waving their New York State Championship banner and their Mid-Atlantic Championship banner. They also have the satisfaction of knowing that they made it to the World Series semifinals after overcoming controversy.


When the team first arrived in Williamsport, Little League officials launched an investigation after charges were raised that three of their players didn't live in Harlem. But they were exonerated when officials reviewed documentation that showed all the players were eligible.


Last year, the Rolando Paulino All-Stars from the Bronx were disqualified after their star pitcher was revealed to be two years over the age limit of 12.


McWilliams said this year's controversy only fortified the team's winning attitude.


"I know the guys won't feel that good about it ending," he said. "But when they look back on it, I'm sure they'll be just as thrilled as the day they got here, the fact that they were here."

Leave to Ralph Wiley to put it all in perspective. Check it out

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/wiley/020823.html

& i imagine you never used to love baseball either?


get the hell outta here
& give them their props.

i wish i was able to get into that when i was 11/12,
thank god there were teams in high school.


you need a psychiatric examination.

__________________________________
you are not famous.

ya, i was a kid (still am), and when i acted like a damn fool (which i did plenty), i was told so....

>get the hell outta here
>& give them their props.

how about im happy they got beat last night....sounds better to me.


>
>you need a psychiatric examination.

well apparently a lot of people on this board too, as im not the only one who feels this way....and if you cant realize how stupid theyre behavior was, more than YOU needing a psychiatric evaluation, you probably arent suitable to even have any damn kids.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/wiley/020823.html

Ralph doesn't always interest me, but I respect him. This article gave me a better insight on the whole deal.

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