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Subject: "who's better than blk thgt?...." This topic is locked.
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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 01:14 PM

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"who's better than blk thgt?...."


  

          

-i truly believe that tariq trotter is the BEST MC OF ALL TIME. convince of otherwise....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
seriously?
Sep 11th 2003
1
RE: seriously?
Sep 11th 2003
2
who are you?
Sep 11th 2003
3
      RE: who are you?
Sep 11th 2003
4
      bt is not better than a single one of those rappers
Sep 11th 2003
5
           RE: bt is not better than a single one of those rappers
Sep 11th 2003
6
           you two are arguing about nothing
Sep 11th 2003
8
           I agree and disagree with you
Sep 13th 2003
24
                bullisht
Sep 17th 2003
107
                ghostface killah is not even top 25....
Sep 19th 2003
143
                     RE: ghostface killah is not even top 25....
Oct 04th 2003
223
                Are you kidding me?!
Sep 20th 2003
156
                     You didn't read it right, pay attention
Sep 21st 2003
158
                          that was big misread....
Sep 21st 2003
159
      thought=
Sep 23rd 2003
186
I hope you mean the old Jay-z cuz the new Jay-z sucks
Sep 14th 2003
37
Lawd...That's an okayplayerish statement lol
Sep 14th 2003
45
      i agree....
Sep 17th 2003
128
           .......Are you blind and deaf?
Sep 20th 2003
145
                People come down too hard on Jay
Sep 20th 2003
146
                RE: People come down too hard on Jay
Sep 21st 2003
165
                     in defense of my people....
Sep 21st 2003
168
                tell me how jay's changed....
Sep 20th 2003
151
RE: seriously?
Sep 14th 2003
47
sorry, but i can't take you serious
Sep 14th 2003
54
well
Sep 14th 2003
53
who the hell is eddie?
Sep 14th 2003
55
this is where your arguement loses steam
Sep 17th 2003
100
      co-sign / krs-one....
Sep 17th 2003
102
      RE: this is where your arguement loses steam
Sep 20th 2003
148
           as much as i hate to say it....
Sep 20th 2003
150
What Has Kris Done Lately?
Sep 17th 2003
123
here we go again....
Sep 17th 2003
126
      finally i agree with you
Sep 17th 2003
131
           funny you say '87....
Sep 17th 2003
132
                RE: funny you say '87....
Sep 29th 2003
199
                     just pointing it out....
Sep 29th 2003
202
the term G.O.A.T.
Sep 29th 2003
187
      as long as folks can speak....
Sep 29th 2003
195
      RE: the term G.O.A.T.
Sep 29th 2003
196
RE: seriously?
Sep 15th 2003
65
gift of gab, j-live, mos def
Sep 11th 2003
7
gift of gab?
Sep 14th 2003
48
as an "adult" you can stop whining
Oct 05th 2003
225
**spits out soda**
Sep 17th 2003
108
no.
Sep 11th 2003
9
RE: no.
Sep 11th 2003
10
      RE: no.
Sep 11th 2003
11
           tip has a very impressive resume
Sep 12th 2003
16
           wait a minute
Sep 12th 2003
17
                we're talking greatest of all time here....
Sep 17th 2003
134
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 11th 2003
12
vowels.
Sep 11th 2003
13
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 11th 2003
14
TRUE ENOUGH.
Sep 11th 2003
15
      RE: TRUE ENOUGH.
Sep 13th 2003
29
           respect to the underground, but....
Sep 17th 2003
105
                RE: respect to the underground, but....
Sep 29th 2003
190
                     check it out....
Sep 29th 2003
192
                          RE: check it out....
Oct 02nd 2003
213
                               and that's about it....
Oct 02nd 2003
214
                                    hmmm...
Oct 03rd 2003
218
                                         -gratitude....
Oct 03rd 2003
219
I dont think niggas really will ever understand...
Sep 12th 2003
18
ok. let this be it....
Sep 12th 2003
19
RE: ok. let this be it....
Sep 12th 2003
20
      the only thing i disagree on....
Sep 12th 2003
21
           RE: the only thing i disagree on....
Sep 13th 2003
22
                NAS has gaping holes in his skills
Sep 17th 2003
112
                     nas isn't better than tariq....
Sep 17th 2003
116
Well put.......
Sep 16th 2003
92
Big BlackThizzle
Sep 13th 2003
23
Now that should be the end of it
Sep 13th 2003
25
      co-sign....
Sep 13th 2003
26
           There are very few MCs that i like better than BT
Sep 13th 2003
27
                you're full of shit....
Sep 13th 2003
28
                and you're a child.
Sep 13th 2003
30
                     RE: and you're a child.
Sep 14th 2003
31
                     cool
Sep 14th 2003
32
                     lol
Sep 15th 2003
79
                this fool said Big L
Sep 17th 2003
114
                     i thought that was a bit funny too....
Sep 17th 2003
118
Andre 3000
Sep 14th 2003
33
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Sep 29th 2003
200
*holds out brown bag lunches
Sep 14th 2003
34
that's what they tell me
Sep 14th 2003
35
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 14th 2003
36
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 14th 2003
49
Everyone is real educated
Sep 14th 2003
38
Co-sign on Pac...
Sep 14th 2003
39
RE: Co-sign on Pac...
Sep 14th 2003
40
      I've noticed Pac doesn't get that much love on OKP..
Sep 14th 2003
41
           since i assume i might be included in this group
Sep 14th 2003
43
                RE: since i assume i might be included in this group
Sep 14th 2003
44
                This whole...
Sep 14th 2003
57
                trying explaing biggie is better to a pac fan
Sep 14th 2003
59
                     edit: kool keith
Sep 14th 2003
60
                     couple dollars for my thoughts
Sep 14th 2003
61
                          why are you convincing me?
Sep 14th 2003
62
                people like to tout his influence too often
Sep 17th 2003
113
                     even WITH influences....
Sep 17th 2003
119
2Pac is not a better MC than tariq....
Sep 14th 2003
42
co-sign.
Sep 14th 2003
50
Sep 14th 2003
56
      well
Sep 14th 2003
63
      Shall we duel? *raises sword*
Sep 15th 2003
64
      RE: well
Sep 15th 2003
77
     
Sep 15th 2003
78
           here's what you said...
Sep 15th 2003
87
Re think what you just said
Sep 15th 2003
71
      im sorry..
Sep 15th 2003
76
           in his defense....
Sep 18th 2003
142
RE: Everyone is real educated
Sep 15th 2003
66
Who'm I to tell you which music to relate to...
Sep 15th 2003
69
RE: Who'm I to tell you which music to relate to...
Oct 03rd 2003
216
You should not even be writing
Sep 15th 2003
72
      "Jeez Y? cause ignorance fools are the greatest"...
Oct 03rd 2003
217
RE: Everyone is real educated
Sep 16th 2003
93
      -'Pac was more of a poet....
Sep 16th 2003
95
      People, people
Sep 16th 2003
96
           co-ma'fuckin' sign....
Sep 16th 2003
97
           RE: People, people
Sep 17th 2003
122
                as an mc, yes....
Sep 20th 2003
155
from a technical standpoint -
Sep 14th 2003
46
RE: from a technical standpoint -
Sep 15th 2003
81
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 14th 2003
51
*rubs eyes* n/m
Sep 14th 2003
52
well, i somewhat agree but
Sep 14th 2003
58
I like the Clippers
Sep 15th 2003
73
no one's gonna convince you otherwise
Sep 15th 2003
67
RE: no one's gonna convince you otherwise....
Sep 15th 2003
68
I bet Thought himself does not even think that.
Sep 15th 2003
70
RE: I bet Thought himself does not even think that....
Sep 15th 2003
74
RE: I bet Thought himself does not even think that.
Sep 15th 2003
75
      ok, silly-ass....
Sep 15th 2003
80
throw jada in the mix....
Sep 15th 2003
82
let's see...
Sep 15th 2003
83
sticky fucking fingers?!?!?!?!!!!
Sep 15th 2003
84
The Anvil
Sep 15th 2003
85
RE: sticky fucking fingers?!?!?!?!!!!
Sep 15th 2003
86
      jay....
Sep 16th 2003
88
      of all the asinine statements in this thread...
Sep 17th 2003
129
           you agree or disagreew/ me?....
Sep 17th 2003
130
someone need to whip yo' a**
Sep 17th 2003
111
      i know, right?!....
Sep 17th 2003
120
Might not be the best
Sep 16th 2003
89
-tell me what he lacks....
Sep 16th 2003
90
Not even in the top 5
Sep 16th 2003
91
i'm sorry, but you're wrong....
Sep 16th 2003
94
      sacrifice was a bad exmpl....
Sep 16th 2003
98
           Whatever duke
Sep 17th 2003
99
                -if you real, make me believe it....
Sep 17th 2003
103
                     I ain't gotta make you believe shit
Sep 17th 2003
106
                          thanks for the opinion....
Sep 17th 2003
109
                               BIG
Sep 17th 2003
133
                                    well....
Sep 17th 2003
135
                                         Where's your point?
Sep 18th 2003
138
                                              understand / understood....
Sep 18th 2003
139
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 17th 2003
101
ask mos def about tariq's flow....
Sep 17th 2003
104
alright....alright....let's sit the influence factor to
Sep 17th 2003
110
i agree, but....
Sep 17th 2003
115
      I should've explained that aspect more
Sep 17th 2003
121
           but....
Sep 17th 2003
127
                therein lies the issue
Sep 18th 2003
136
                     this is where you find the fork....
Sep 18th 2003
140
                          put away your forks...
Sep 20th 2003
144
                               so, which do you prefer....
Sep 20th 2003
152
3000 & Redman
Sep 17th 2003
117
see...I can respect that
Sep 17th 2003
124
RE: 3000 & Redman....
Sep 17th 2003
125
      nah..I gotta disagree
Sep 18th 2003
137
           once again it's the other m&m....
Sep 18th 2003
141
*backs out of post slowly*
Sep 20th 2003
147
who's better, punk....
Sep 20th 2003
153
      okay, let's see
Sep 21st 2003
163
           here we go again....
Sep 21st 2003
169
                RE: here we go again....
Sep 21st 2003
170
                     you're right....
Sep 21st 2003
173
                          RE: you're right....
Sep 22nd 2003
184
                               you're kicking a dead horse....
Sep 22nd 2003
185
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 20th 2003
149
i respect your opinion, but no....
Sep 20th 2003
154
      I like the way ya'll think...
Sep 20th 2003
157
      no YOU'RE wrong....
Sep 21st 2003
160
           Music comes first ...
Sep 21st 2003
161
                my sentiments exactly....
Sep 21st 2003
164
      RE: i respect your opinion, but no....
Sep 21st 2003
162
           RE: i respect your opinion, but no....
Sep 21st 2003
166
           a lot of kids can rap, but....
Sep 21st 2003
167
                RE: a lot of kids can rap, but....
Sep 21st 2003
172
                     i only said he wasn't better than thought....
Sep 21st 2003
174
KWELI!
Sep 21st 2003
171
already been said....
Sep 21st 2003
175
Nature
Sep 22nd 2003
176
that's not a bad suggestion....
Sep 22nd 2003
177
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 22nd 2003
178
no, not at all....
Sep 22nd 2003
179
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 22nd 2003
180
check it out....
Sep 22nd 2003
181
RE: check it out....
Sep 22nd 2003
182
      sorry....
Sep 22nd 2003
183
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 29th 2003
188
lauryn hadn't been mentioned....
Sep 29th 2003
191
wow...................................
Sep 29th 2003
189
there's no way....
Sep 29th 2003
193
      RE: there's no way....
Oct 01st 2003
209
           on the contrary....
Oct 01st 2003
210
                RE: Phrenology....
Oct 03rd 2003
215
                     -put 'em all together & whaddaya get?....
Oct 03rd 2003
220
                          we both fell off script dawg
Oct 05th 2003
224
Does it really matter?
Sep 29th 2003
194
so what you're saying is....
Sep 29th 2003
197
..nobody...
Sep 29th 2003
198
RE: who's better than blk thgt?....
Sep 29th 2003
201
my point exactly....
Sep 29th 2003
203
      Don't get it twisted ....
Sep 29th 2003
204
           he shined on phren....
Sep 30th 2003
205
           He was better when he was younger.
Oct 01st 2003
206
                well....
Oct 01st 2003
207
           but still....
Oct 01st 2003
208
                RE: but still....
Oct 02nd 2003
211
                     that was harsh & wrong....
Oct 02nd 2003
212
damn
Oct 03rd 2003
221
-yeah, 'fraid so....
Oct 03rd 2003
222

ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 01:21 PM

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1. "seriously?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

rakim
krs-one
pharoahe monch
common
ras kass
aceyalone
ghostface
kool keith
big daddy kane
biggie
chuck d
posdnuos
jay-z
nas

sure there are more, but that's all i have for now. dude is nice. but dude isn't that nice.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 01:24 PM

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2. "RE: seriously?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

-i'm sorry, i disagree. some of your choices do too. read up....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 01:27 PM

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3. "who are you?"
In response to Reply # 2


          

who said black thought specifically was better than them? how old are you?

alias?

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 01:31 PM

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4. "RE: who are you?"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

who the F are you?! i ain't say squat about no one specifically saying he was better than them, but i've read & heard various artists give him praise which makes him better than 1/2 the cats you named. & aren't you the same jackass that had the post earlier about how com' fell off?....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 01:36 PM

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5. "bt is not better than a single one of those rappers"
In response to Reply # 4


          

a single one.

>who the F are you?!

i am 18. white. belligerent. and at a computer.

i ain't say squat about no one
>specifically saying he was better than them, but i've read &
>heard various artists give him praise which makes him better
>than 1/2 the cats you named.

great examples. i love "various artists." their last album was really good.

>& aren't you the same jackass
>that had the post earlier about how com' fell off?....

i'm not sure that was me but i don't see how that would be wrong anyways.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 01:38 PM

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6. "RE: bt is not better than a single one of those rappers"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

time'll tell.... punk.

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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prophet j
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
10109 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 01:45 PM

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8. "you two are arguing about nothing"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

quit whining.

- - - - -

www.wingnutjazz.com <--- !!!!!!
peace & love

- - - - -

peace & love

  

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Lach
Charter member
43792 posts
Sat Sep-13-03 03:13 AM

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24. "I agree and disagree with you"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

>a single one.

Thought is not the illest, yes. BUT, there are not THAT many ahead of him. In terms of overall quality, I'd say Ras, Aceyalone, Kool Keith, Posdnuos are not better. But you may be right about the others. Thought is ill, but he doesn't have enough variety it seems compared to some of the top tier people you named.

  

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Tariq3
Charter member
5461 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 08:53 AM

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107. "bullisht"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

>Thought is ill, but he doesn't
>have enough variety it seems compared to some of the top
>tier people you named.

I dare you to name anyone of those MC's that has more technique than Thought. The only one I can see is KRS. Com got unintentional jagged flow. The same with Ghost. Ghosts patterns are a byproduct of his miscellaneous content. KRS is the only contender on that list. KRS embodied all the elements that Thought strives to have. While Rakim definitely has the influence factor his overall capabilities are limited in some areas where Though stands out.

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Fri Sep-19-03 08:49 PM

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143. "ghostface killah is not even top 25...."
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

-i can't think of any category where he shines. he's nothing special....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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phenompyrus
Charter member
9366 posts
Sat Oct-04-03 05:14 AM

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223. "RE: ghostface killah is not even top 25...."
In response to Reply # 143


          

yea i dont see what all the fuss is about that guy.
he doesnt suck, he just isnt one of the best.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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whatdafuggg
Member since Sep 11th 2003
797 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 09:26 PM

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156. "Are you kidding me?!"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Kool Keith better than BT?!?!?!?!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  

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Lach
Charter member
43792 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 03:31 AM

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158. "You didn't read it right, pay attention"
In response to Reply # 156


  

          

I said he's NOT better than Thought. NOT. Reread.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 05:37 AM

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159. "that was big misread...."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

-he's one of those who should've never bee mentioned in this topic....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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wonluv
Charter member
4156 posts
Tue Sep-23-03 02:08 AM

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186. "thought="
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

better than ghost

~sicknature~ My financial skills/discipline need Jesus. -J-Skivvy

****We need more Pharoahe Monch!!!****

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66335 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 08:29 AM

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37. "I hope you mean the old Jay-z cuz the new Jay-z sucks"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

So Said the Pro-Black Prophet:

You are righteous, but a God fearing Devil.Saved by grace, but lost by humanity

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  

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Lach
Charter member
43792 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 11:35 AM

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45. "Lawd...That's an okayplayerish statement lol"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 11:28 AM

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128. "i agree...."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

-i don't think jay's changed much over the years, atleast not THAT much....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Lardlad95
Member since Jul 31st 2002
66335 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 11:41 AM

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145. ".......Are you blind and deaf?"
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

So Said the Pro-Black Prophet:

You are righteous, but a God fearing Devil.Saved by grace, but lost by humanity

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  

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Lach
Charter member
43792 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 11:45 AM

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146. "People come down too hard on Jay"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

Mainly because he talks about money alot. So what? Is everyone supposed to be on the KRS, Black Thought, Dead Prez type tip?

  

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Love_Boxx
Member since Sep 20th 2003
81 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 12:51 PM

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165. "RE: People come down too hard on Jay"
In response to Reply # 146


          

I love it when these different cliques get their lexicon, fan favorites, clothing styles, etc. "To be an okayplayer, you must wear che t-shirts, read A People's History of The United States and listen to the Roots (of course!!), Talib Kweli and Jill Scott. Any listening to Jay-Z, Camron, Snoop Dogg or their ilk will result in three demerits..."

To quote Jay "First album niggaz love me cause they thought I was poor, Guess I'm successful; industry don't love me no more
Well I'm the same nigga from your corner, bubblin raw
Skully tilted, pants saggin, damn near touchin the floor
And I come with do-rags to your so-called awards
T-shirt with my chain out like fuck y'all all".

Come on, let's not have a dress code to be an okayplayer--let cats stand on their own merit.

If anyone's feeling this type of analysis, check out my column...

Nerds Eye View of Hip-Hop

Daveyd.com

Peace

Check out:
www.daveyd.com

Nerds Eye View of Hip Hop

"Don't even hate on those who hate me, I've got Pac on"

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 01:14 PM

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168. "in defense of my people...."
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

-i don't think anyone was sleeping on jay (except the clown who said he's "changed") but let's keep in mind that this thread addresses greatest of all time, so any negativity should be pawned off as opinion on the subject. in a lot of ways i agree w/ those who say jay's up there. he's high on my list as well. shit, tariq even fucks w/jay, so don't let a dummy get you all worked up. everybody knows jay-z is nothing to be slept-on, regardless of what their mouth says. and i don't think that anyone can doubt that if he has changed, he's gotten better over the years. (but that's bullshit, he's the same ole' jay) at any rate, i still believe that tariq is worth more AS AN MC. so, in the words of your pick, stick to the script. it's just opinions. you not feelin' 'em, fine, it costs you nothing, pay us no mind....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 07:27 PM

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151. "tell me how jay's changed...."
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

-stop w/ the name-calling, & back your opinion....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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comment
Charter member
2828 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 11:50 AM

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47. "RE: seriously?"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

>krs-one
beats him.

>pharoahe monch
beats him.

>common
close.

>ras kass
beats him.

>aceyalone
dunno.

>ghostface
slaughter. no contest.

>kool keith
no contest.

>big daddy kane
maybe back in the day.

>biggie
beats him.

>chuck d
beats him.

>posdnuos
beats him.

>jay-z
close.

>nas
close.


  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 03:44 PM

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54. "sorry, but i can't take you serious"
In response to Reply # 47


          

>>pharoahe monch
>beats him.

>>nas
>close.

if you're gonna imply that nas is better than pharoahe. that shit makes me shake my head.

we disagree, whatever, but please don't make me revisit what i just read.

it's that serious.

  

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shockzilla
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37796 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 02:35 PM

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53. "well"
In response to Reply # 1


          

>rakim

what has he done for me lately, eddie?

truly a great emcee- a prototype for so many who came after

probably the GOAT

>krs-one

a true legend- and one who could also lay claim to being the GOAT

but again- what has he done lately?


>pharoahe monch

this is a debatable call- sure he's got a great flow- but he doesn't have the catalog to match thought's

BT is better, for mine

>common

black thought has a much better flow, and is more versatile
common IS great- but he's not seeing Black Thought

>ras kass
>aceyalone

both these guys got skills- but can they rock a show like thought?

>ghostface

hell no

ghostface is probably the best Wu emcee- but he's not better than thought

lyrically- although gf can be most poetic- i'll still take BT over him

>kool keith

no. no, he isn't.

>big daddy kane

no- thought surpassed him and has a better catalog

and i used to LOVE BDK

>biggie

this i will concede.

>chuck d

no, he's not a better emcee than thought. he's got a great voice and historically PE could well be the best GROUP in hip hop

but thought is nicer on the mic

>posdnuos

good, maybe even great- but not better than thought

>jay-z
>nas

both great emcees- i'd love to hear either of them on a track WITH bt

i think that Black Thought doesn't get the respect he deserves because he's part of a group

if the Roots albums were under his name, you'd see a lot more people including BT in their top tens

i think andre3000 has the same 'problem'


>sure there are more, but that's all i have for now. dude is
>nice. but dude isn't that nice.

wrong- Black Thought *is* that nice

criminally underrated


shock

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 04:00 PM

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55. "who the hell is eddie?"
In response to Reply # 53


          

>>rakim
>
>what has he done for me lately, eddie?

who is eddie?

rakim coulda retired and left his legacy thorough. he hasn't done shit lately, but what was thought doing in 85?

>>pharoahe monch
>
>this is a debatable call- sure he's got a great flow- but he
>doesn't have the catalog to match thought's

he has two unquestionably classic albums, two more, and another on the way.

>BT is better, for mine

majority of the time dude, until recently, was "rhymin for the sake of riddlin." one of nas' best (i gave you power) is stolen from an organized konfusion idea years earlier. man had depth and content and lyrics and flow. he is my GOAT.

>>common
>
>black thought has a much better flow, and is more versatile
>common IS great- but he's not seeing Black Thought

back to my "rhymin for the sake of riddlin'." common has put out three lyrical gems. black has put out? this is not sarcasm, just a query. i mean don't get me wrong, black thought is an incredible mc to me. i have never been fortunate to see his live show, so i'm just going off albums. and just off of albums, i believe these other dudes are "more incredible."

>>ras kass
>>aceyalone
>both these guys got skills- but can they rock a show like
>thought?

wouldn't know.

>>ghostface
>
>hell no
that's probably just a personal favorite that clouds my vision.

>>kool keith
>
>no. no, he isn't.

geek boy comes out in me. ultramagnetic, dr. octagon, and bits and pieces recently puts him up there.

>>big daddy kane
>no- thought surpassed him and has a better catalog

i can concede that, but it wasn't like i had a completely thought out least i'll admit. i responded, quickly i believe, and was listing off the dudes who are at the top of my list. big daddy kane is up there, but thought can take this one.

>>chuck d
>no, he's not a better emcee than thought. he's got a great
>voice and historically PE could well be the best GROUP in
>hip hop

maybe it's the "i always wanted something to stand for" part of me, but chuck d (public enemy) represents the epitome of hiphop to me. when a twelve year white kid on a saturday afternoon can put on "it takes a nation" and get chills, that stays with you.

>i think that Black Thought doesn't get the respect he
>deserves because he's part of a group

of course he doesn't. it was a crime when vh1 put the roots on their top 50 list and just mentioned the band thing, neglecting BT.

all those emcees i've mentioned are 5 mic fellas in my mind. thought is too. i just hold them higher, for the most part.

  

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J_Sun
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Wed Sep-17-03 03:16 AM

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100. "this is where your arguement loses steam"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>i mean don't get me wrong, black
>thought is an incredible mc to me. i have never been
>fortunate to see his live show, so i'm just going off
>albums. and just off of albums, i believe these other dudes
>are "more incredible."

MC means move the croud (c) Rakim

People lose sight of the fact that the live show is just as important as the studio recordings. I have been to many shows in my days and the only MC who gives a liver stage show than Black Thought is KRS-One. You said Monch is your GOAT. Have you ever seen Monch live? I have and while not wack, he's not touching Black Thought when it comes to rocking a crowd live. Now, granted part of what makes The Roots so live in concert is the band, but believe me, on stage Thought is the leader of the group. He commands the stage and the croud like an MC is supposed to do.
______________________________________________
Cedar Point IV - September 13th. Brang yo bitchass!



"The Black Hills of Dakota, steeped in the history of the American West, home of Proud Indian Nation. A land where imagination conjures up images of blue clad Pony Soldiers and magnificent Native American Warriors. A land still rutted with wagon tracks of intrepid pioneers. A land where waitful winds whisper of Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and Custer. A land of character, of bravery, of tradition. A land that truly speaks of the spirit that is America."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place, then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace" © Common

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 06:16 AM

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102. "co-sign / krs-one...."
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

-he's definetly top 10, due much in part to hia abilities on stage. comparisons to tariq on a concert front have been discussed much, and i'm pretty sure that i read something about krs giving thought props on how he commands crowd....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Abstract101
Member since Sep 20th 2003
149 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 12:10 PM

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148. "RE: this is where your arguement loses steam"
In response to Reply # 100


          

If you can find me anyone who rocks the mic harder than Talib, or if you can tell me bt rocks it harder than Talib, then go ahead.


Frog: Hey, Mister. This heres the stairway to Heaven. You know that, dont ya?
Spike: Obnoxious little frog

Ed: I think I know. I dont think I know. I dont think I think I know. I dont think I think.

Spike: Im not going to die, Im going to see if I was ever alive.

.............................
the radio's off now, it's time for some real music

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 07:24 PM

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150. "as much as i hate to say it...."
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

-black thought, com', kwe', & mos all serve as my favorites, or atleast immediate preference, so it's always hard to say one is better than the other, but i truly believe tariq's got 'em all....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Rita Lawsons Boy Rollo
Member since Aug 25th 2003
449 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 09:44 AM

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123. "What Has Kris Done Lately?"
In response to Reply # 53


          

He only took a cd filled with pretty lame hooks and beats for the most part and lifted the content strictly by his flow.

Have you heard Kristyle?

Have you heard his flow?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Thought fan true indeed, but he is not the GOAT.

Big Daddy Kane still has flows, you just don't hear much from him, but when he does...

Kool G Rap could be added to the list if he isn't there.

Do you really think Thought outflows Talib Kweli?

Once again -- mad respect for Thought, and I respect your opinion, but I could put some verses on here from some of these emcees, later with more time that you would be hard pressed at best to find a thought verse to hang with.

It's time we face up to the un-face-up-toable. -- Mayor Diamond Quimby

Who? Me? -- Beatlejuice

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 09:47 AM

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126. "here we go again...."
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

-times mean nothing. krs-one could never release another single and still forever be a staple in the top 10. period....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 12:43 PM

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131. "finally i agree with you"
In response to Reply # 126


          

>-times mean nothing. krs-one could never release another
>single and still forever be a staple in the top 10.
>period....

thank you.

to those that say "what has krs or rakim done lately?" what was whoever-mc doing back in 87? probably nursing or some shit. folks, respect your elders and don't over-compensate the young ones.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 03:09 PM

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132. "funny you say '87...."
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

-isn't that the year our beloved black thought "hooked up w/ the ?uestion?....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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AquaBoogie
Member since Feb 28th 2003
3478 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 08:13 AM

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199. "RE: funny you say '87...."
In response to Reply # 132


  

          


What the hell does that have to do with anything?

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 09:37 AM

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202. "just pointing it out...."
In response to Reply # 199


  

          

-damn....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Approaching
Charter member
2271 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 01:08 AM

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187. "the term G.O.A.T."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

really *really* needs to be retired.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 06:42 AM

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195. "as long as folks can speak...."
In response to Reply # 187


  

          

-people gon' keep talking. i had no bad intentions w/ the post, it was actually a question in the beginning that said nothing about a goat....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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JSYM7
Member since Jul 31st 2003
219 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 06:46 AM

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196. "RE: the term G.O.A.T."
In response to Reply # 187


          

cosign it is just a ego thing and used to sell cds. I mean if BIG and Pac are the greatest then rap should be over right the best you will ever have is dead so how can new jacks measure up.

There is no G.o.a.t it's all an illusion.

  

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phenompyrus
Charter member
9366 posts
Mon Sep-15-03 04:00 AM

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65. "RE: seriously?"
In response to Reply # 1


          

the only ones on the list that may be better are nas and jay-z.
rakim maybe too.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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prophet j
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
10109 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 01:43 PM

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7. "gift of gab, j-live, mos def"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

top 3.

thought is nice though.

- - - - -

www.wingnutjazz.com <--- !!!!!!
peace & love

- - - - -

peace & love

  

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comment
Charter member
2828 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 11:51 AM

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48. "gift of gab?"
In response to Reply # 7
Sun Sep-14-03 11:52 AM

  

          

come on. lets be adults here. top 3? no way.

j-live isn't that nice either. at least from what i heard.

at least with mos you can make an argument.

  

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prophet j
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
10109 posts
Sun Oct-05-03 03:10 PM

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225. "as an "adult" you can stop whining"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

and respect my opinion.

he's on point, write meaningful lyrics, has an incredible flow and overall he's impressive.

j-live is one of the most underrated emcees out there. i'm definitely giving him the respect he deserves.

- - - - -

www.wingnutjazz.com <--- !!!!!!
peace & love

- - - - -

peace & love

  

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Tariq3
Charter member
5461 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 08:53 AM

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108. "**spits out soda**"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

c'mon dawg..

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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Scrapluv
Charter member
14806 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 02:13 PM

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9. "no."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but it's hard 2 find a cat that can hold a whole show down like thought

  

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cchrono
Charter member
557 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 02:22 PM

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10. "RE: no."
In response to Reply # 9


          

thought is def the best my top five go thought,nas,jlive,rakim,qtip

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 02:57 PM

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11. "RE: no."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

-q-tip!? go to the bathroom. take a nap or somethin'....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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prophet j
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
10109 posts
Fri Sep-12-03 01:15 PM

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16. "tip has a very impressive resume"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

and has impressed me many a time, but i definitely wouldn't put him in my top 5.

- - - - -

www.wingnutjazz.com <--- !!!!!!
peace & love

- - - - -

peace & love

  

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billyshakespeare
Member since Feb 14th 2003
3762 posts
Fri Sep-12-03 05:48 PM

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17. "wait a minute"
In response to Reply # 11
Fri Sep-12-03 05:50 PM

  

          

I think you're underestimatin tip

I cant say he's one of the best (definitely not top five). But he has no problem WHATSOEVER holdin it down on the mic

Tell me he didnt hold it down on Illadelph? The nigga got rhymes. Dont shrug him off like he Phife or somethin, give em his due.

<--- Luvlee's Favorite!!!

Bill=Paul

"Thats what happens when you interrupt the White Man." Kosmo KKKramer

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 05:18 PM

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134. "we're talking greatest of all time here...."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

-you go to the bathroom too....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Phrenologist68144
Member since Nov 30th 2002
13 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 03:09 PM

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12. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

BT is definitely up there
1)Ryu from styles of beyond*
2)Takbir from styles of beyond*
3)Mighty Mos
4)BT from the Legendary
5)Kweli
6 to infinity)Its a free for all-there are a lot of good ones, those are just the most remarkable
haven't heard the new S.O.B. album yet(Megadef in stores this month, but I'm broke as all hell) but if it is half as good as 2000 Fold, its on!!!!

10
1R
HY
M
ES
A
ND
A
M
M
O

  

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Mosaic
Charter member
16408 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 05:13 PM

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13. "vowels."
In response to Reply # 0


          


  

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phenompyrus
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Thu Sep-11-03 05:16 PM

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14. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

not many.
the ppl who diss him are just like the critics who overlook him for being in a hip hop band.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Thu Sep-11-03 05:19 PM

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15. "TRUE ENOUGH."
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

-as i said before, time'll tell....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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phenompyrus
Charter member
9366 posts
Sat Sep-13-03 12:42 PM

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29. "RE: TRUE ENOUGH."
In response to Reply # 15


          

he is one of the best of all time.
him, talib, common, nas, jay z, eminem, and slick rick.
all that and i have yet to dive into the true 'underground' guys like atmosphere, def jux, and such.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 07:24 AM

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105. "respect to the underground, but...."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

-slick rick?! you can't be serious. i fully agree that the best mc in the world may have never been heard before. (makes you wonder, don't it) but, i think i was aiming at mc's we know of....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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phenompyrus
Charter member
9366 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 05:46 AM

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190. "RE: respect to the underground, but...."
In response to Reply # 105


          

yea slick rick.
no one can quite tell a story like he can.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 06:26 AM

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192. "check it out...."
In response to Reply # 190


  

          

-my points all along have been a view of the whole picture as opposed to just "story-telling"....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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phenompyrus
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Thu Oct-02-03 08:56 AM

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213. "RE: check it out...."
In response to Reply # 192


          

oh i know im jus saying that slick rick specializes in that field...

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Thu Oct-02-03 09:34 AM

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214. "and that's about it...."
In response to Reply # 213


  

          

-slick rick was kind of a clown....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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phenompyrus
Charter member
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Fri Oct-03-03 06:01 AM

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218. "hmmm..."
In response to Reply # 214


          

to every man his own opinion i guess.
i still stand by this post. very nicely done.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Fri Oct-03-03 06:59 AM

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219. "-gratitude...."
In response to Reply # 218


  

          

-*gives thumbs up*....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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billyshakespeare
Member since Feb 14th 2003
3762 posts
Fri Sep-12-03 06:27 PM

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18. "I dont think niggas really will ever understand..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...that this nigga IS the best MC of all time.

Mainly cuz they dont fully think of what mc means. It means MASTER

BT is a MASTER at all things MC'in. hands down.

1) This nigga controls a live show without effort. How many rappers have you heard do OTHER PEOPLES VERSES at their own show. niggas will do their verse, then on to the next song. Also, I aint never heard this man mess up on stage in my life(maybe you have). at a 2and1/2 hour show! come on man.

2) I have NEVER heard a verse from him and thought it was wack, EVER(Seed 2.0 dont count, that was basically a cody song/remix). Thinkin right now, I cant think of anybody else I can say that about. That nigga brings it everytime.

3) Who flows better. I'm talkin about meshin your cadence wit the beat. This cat can flip syllabes, change his rhyme structure,or whatever and will ALWAYS BE ON BEAT. nothing ever sounds forced. He never packs too many words in his lines. It just sounds too natural. And he mostly always makes sense. (I would say Ghost has better flow if his shit made any sense, but I think its easier to mesh random words than it is to try to have your isht make sense)

4) there's other stuff I can tthink of right now but who cares

I think what it comes down to is one thing

CONSISTENCY

Cuz every single time I have heard this cat I have been impressed.

I cant say that about anyone else.Used to be like that with nas, but we know he was blinded by the bling. Com was the same, but we have no idea what happened there. And mos would be on that level but he aint put out enough stuff.

Regardless i dont think ther is or has been another MC in the game that has had every part of it locked so easily

Disclaimer: obviously I aint heard everybody, this is just my opinion with the information I have.

<--- Luvlee's Favorite!!!

Bill=Paul

"Thats what happens when you interrupt the White Man." Kosmo KKKramer

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Fri Sep-12-03 09:01 PM

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19. "ok. let this be it...."
In response to Reply # 18
Fri Sep-12-03 09:02 PM

  

          

-ok, im'mna put the nail in the coffin right now. you summed it up well. i don't think that anyone, including everyone who's disputed on this post, will doubt thought's ability to hold a show down, w/ the only comp. coming from krs-one who has been to roots shows & given praise (there's your proof ricky butler. again, read up.) and as far weak verses & screwing up goes, great mc's can do that and still be great. i think that's the beautiful thing about the elite. i feel as though the one thing that we leave out when ranking the best is stage presence. that's why i look at some of these cats & their posts like what?! look at 50 cent, who is arguably the hottest act in "all-around hip-hop" right now. he sounds HORRIBLE live, & i dare anyone to dispute. now, chalk it up to exp. or whatever you will, but tariq has however quickly become the best at knowing what to say & when to say it, seldom leaving anyone listening unsatisfied. some speak of the seed 2.0 like a downfall on thought's part & i look at it as further proof on his range. i don't see this cut as something that holds him down, but moreso as a track that displays his ability to adapt. maybe ya'll don't understand where i'm coming from, but somebody has too. this is where his consistency comes into play. no matter what mc you name, you can always expect that mc to be what you expect, w/ any surprises being just that & however much of a "boost". i can even take it back to organix, because the range & consistency that i speak about was noticed from back then. read up on the man's influences, & you'll find that those who SHOULD be on these fake-ass lists that ya'll are making are the one's that tariq admires. he has touched on almost every subject thinkable in flow. even his "weakest" verses are better than some of the words you hatin' ass punks live by. and the fact that he's in the midst of his prime at most leaves me to trust that if he's not one of the best now, he will be soon. time'll tell....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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billyshakespeare
Member since Feb 14th 2003
3762 posts
Fri Sep-12-03 09:25 PM

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20. "RE: ok. let this be it...."
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

>and as far weak verses &
>screwing up goes, great mc's can do that and still be great.
>i think that's the beautiful thing about the elite.

I agree, but what I'm sayin is that this cat doesnt do these things. So it makes him that much greater

>some speak of the seed 2.0 like a downfall on thought's part

Not me at all, I just think the way he sounds on the album version is wack. When he does it live, thats my shit

>& i look at it as further proof on his range. i don't see
>this cut as something that holds him down, but moreso as a
>track that displays his ability to adapt. maybe ya'll don't
>understand where i'm coming from, but somebody has too.

Totally agree. This was a Cody song, thought recognized that, and didnt try to outshine the cat wit devastatin verses. Another trait of a great MC, knowin how to rhyme on certain songs


<--- Luvlee's Favorite!!!

Bill=Paul

"Thats what happens when you interrupt the White Man." Kosmo KKKramer

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Fri Sep-12-03 09:55 PM

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21. "the only thing i disagree on...."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

-i've heard tariq fuck-up MANY times live, but because he's THAT good, it's impossible for any of his mistakes to be seen as a "fuck-up". he sounds the way he's supposed to sound on the phren version of seed. i just wish i knew exactly what people were judging mc's by when they make these silly ass lists, because there's not much that tariq can't do, or hasn't done for that matter. he's the best. fuck what anyone has to say in dispute....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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breakudown5
Member since Sep 13th 2003
4 posts
Sat Sep-13-03 02:30 AM

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22. "RE: the only thing i disagree on...."
In response to Reply # 21


          

tariq is nice, but nastradamus is just plain, well, g-o-d.

how now, how now, how now brown cow

  

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Tariq3
Charter member
5461 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 09:28 AM

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112. "NAS has gaping holes in his skills"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

but he's nice..

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 09:35 AM

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116. "nas isn't better than tariq...."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

-thought wins on too many fronts....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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WindConga
Member since May 29th 2003
4506 posts
Tue Sep-16-03 12:07 PM

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92. "Well put......."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

.....especailly on the tip about flowin'. Catz be forgettin' HOW IMPORTANT FLOWIN' IS and Thought got flow like Afrika got Gold. Check his verse on "Spark"(push up ya'liter)from Illadelph, and tell me that this muhfukka ain't flowin'. That verse alone is a textbook lesson to all emcees on how you flow.

-If ya' ears hurt, you shouldn't listen, that means you artificial and my style will poison ya' brain tissue-

Thought is easily my pick as one of the best....

-These catz drink champagne, and toast death & pain, like slaves on the ship talkin' bout who got the flyest chains-
-Talib Kweli

www.myspace.com/chriswynd

  

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Doomdata21
Member since Jul 21st 2002
1011 posts
Sat Sep-13-03 03:12 AM

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23. "Big BlackThizzle"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


I know a lot of cats can't recognize it, but the claim that Black Thought is the best isn't so far fetched when you consider his lyrical range i.e... UNIverse, Hypnotic, Pussy Galore, Super Lyrical, The Seed 2.0, Saywhatman (sp?), No Alibi, Datskat, Freestyles, singing, The scatting, the live shows(seen them cats do si do live before when he had locks), the presence of the master of ceremonies. He does all of this stuff with an A+ average.

A lot of the emcees out there can't do half the things Tariq attempts and pull it off without a hitch. Plus, I only know about stuff he's done in the last 5 years really. I got every album. The man is sick wid it and game recognizes game. Some may excel in certain categories over him but few hold down all categories like he does. So Tariq, if you're reading this, you are one dope muhfu**a and keep doing the d*mn thang.

"...i remember during the lawsuit with him and webb that it was brought up that he had herpes. maybe t-mac just doesn't wanna take showers next to his herpified ass. maybe juwan should play on the warriors with cliff "the clap" robinson."- roamr1 (made me gag)

"Ya'll know the bad liuetenant be on some whole 'nother other finesse genetic. They say I get it from my mother so it's inhereted." Black Thought

"One to many niggas tryna tell me bout their theory" Com

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

  

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billyshakespeare
Member since Feb 14th 2003
3762 posts
Sat Sep-13-03 04:19 AM

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25. "Now that should be the end of it"
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Couldnt have said it better myself.

Matter of fact I didnt *post 18*

<--- Luvlee's Favorite!!!

Bill=Paul

"Thats what happens when you interrupt the White Man." Kosmo KKKramer

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sat Sep-13-03 05:27 AM

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26. "co-sign...."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

-there you have it folks: tariq trotter - greatest of all time.

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Sexybeast3000
Charter member
95 posts
Sat Sep-13-03 07:31 AM

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27. "There are very few MCs that i like better than BT"
In response to Reply # 26
Sat Sep-13-03 07:37 AM

          

and here they are-

NAS
Pharohe Monch
Big L


he's up there, but he's not G.O.A.T.

sheeeet- Emenim is probably the best, but I can only take him in small doses.
then you have peoples whose legends are just too big to even judge them solely on their music- Biggie, Tupac, and Jay-Z.

but whatever, Black Thought is your favorite, congratualations.

Stop jumping on people cause they think different- at least they know who Black Thought is.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sat Sep-13-03 08:24 AM

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28. "you're full of shit...."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

-READ UP. ask eminem about black thought, and, being however humble, he'll say he's better. i got thought beating em' in a battle, and that's eminem's origin. as for that legend bullshit, when you throw that into the mix, i feel as though you're shifting towards quantity as opposed to quality. Jay-Z & Biggie have both praised Tariq in the past, and i would bet my life savings that he'd eat nas's ass in whatever form of comp. there's a difference between being a legend and being the best. i'm not on the man's nuts but i've studied this subject extensively, and i'll defend black thought as the all-around greatest mc of all time. truly....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Sexybeast3000
Charter member
95 posts
Sat Sep-13-03 04:30 PM

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30. "and you're a child."
In response to Reply # 28


          

- calm down-


You ask for peoples opinons and then tell them to fuck off-

- step back-.

I don't want your "life savings" it couldn't pay my damn mortgage- it couldn't pay my taxes. you are being dum and your attitude is retarded.

If Thought and Nas had a song writing compition- who could WRITE the more personal ill shit- Nas would destroy- Nas would kill any one in that type-

Off the top of the dome - Black Thought would beat anybody in a battle. I fully believe that. But in terms of crafting incredible songs on his own.....well we are still waiting for his solo album aren't we. My guess is there won't be any "Stan"s or "Lose Yourself"s on it. and don't play yourself- both those songs were genius.


thought is real nice, he has flows for days.

>>i'm not on the man's nuts but i've studied this subject extensively<<

And how is HipHop jr high these days? loser



  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 04:55 AM

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31. "RE: and you're a child."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

-that was pretty harsh. you scorn me for giving my opinion and debating w/ those who beg to differ, then display the same ignorance & mean ways you accuse me of having. did i accidentally make you think it was that serious? if so, i apologize to you and anyone else i may have offended....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Sexybeast3000
Charter member
95 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 05:40 AM

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32. "cool"
In response to Reply # 31


          



cool then

  

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comment
Charter member
2828 posts
Mon Sep-15-03 10:24 AM

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79. "lol"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

>You ask for peoples opinons and then tell them to fuck off-

lol.

  

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Tariq3
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5461 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 09:32 AM

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114. "this fool said Big L"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

>and here they are-
>
>NAS
>Pharohe Monch
>Big L

LOL...

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 09:37 AM

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118. "i thought that was a bit funny too...."
In response to Reply # 114


  

          

-i can't think of one argument, other than freestyling, but i don't see THAT much of a challenge....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Anonymous
Charter member
22282 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 06:40 AM

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33. "Andre 3000"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and don't give me no bullshit about the man don't rap no more.

  

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Yank
Charter member
24509 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 08:25 AM

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200. "HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

-

Lies run sprints.
Truths run marathons.

  

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illadelphgurl
Charter member
21352 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 07:05 AM

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34. "*holds out brown bag lunches"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

for each one of you*

ricky, you're only 18??!?!?! motherfucker, i'm impressed.

---------------------
<3 restore the shore <3

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 07:12 AM

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35. "that's what they tell me"
In response to Reply # 34


          

>for each one of you*
>
>ricky, you're only 18??!?!?! motherfucker, i'm impressed.

i've done enough insulting of krs-one at okayplayer to realize i better include him in any list i ever make from now on-hiphop releated or not.

top ten best summer meals:

coleslaw
minestrone
krs-one
potato salad

  

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Vocab 215
Member since Jun 02nd 2003
4 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 07:21 AM

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36. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

yo thought is nice on the mic and can rock a crowd but damn best of all time???thats bold right there...he's prolly your favorite but you cant say best of all time without acknowledging the pioneers who started hip-hop...

ILLUSTRATORS ALBUM OUT NEXT MONTH!!!

www.mp3.com/illustrators

  

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comment
Charter member
2828 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 11:55 AM

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49. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

>yo thought is nice on the mic and can rock a crowd but damn
>best of all time???

yeah. those are some big words. I dunno about the best of all times either. But hes up there.

  

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Jeezy
Charter member
439 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 10:00 AM

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38. "Everyone is real educated"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I guess Tupac is horrible huh. He's only one of the greatest poets, hardest and truest mc, can kill mics like no other, ripped it about every subject, is dead with still dope singles out every year, and every mc in the world respects him. But besides that,
rakim
krs-one
pharoahe monch
common
ras kass
aceyalone
ghostface
kool keith
big daddy kane
biggie
chuck d
posdnuos
jay-z
nas
gab
q-tip
mos def

are all better right? For real, you guys need to wake the fuck up.

Jeez Y? cause there are so many phoneyass players.

  

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volleyneck
Member since Aug 23rd 2003
1767 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 10:06 AM

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39. "Co-sign on Pac..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

But i'm confused after that... you think list is better than thought, or not? Or you're saying how retarted it is that all those people were listed before Pac (which is a valid point)?

*~.~:~.~*~I~*~.~:~.~*

  

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Jeezy
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Sun Sep-14-03 10:08 AM

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40. "RE: Co-sign on Pac..."
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

exactly, i dont think one person listed pac...too caught up in some "My Favorite Rappers" shit.

Jeez Y? and I actually like Thought more than Pac.

  

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volleyneck
Member since Aug 23rd 2003
1767 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 10:18 AM

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41. "I've noticed Pac doesn't get that much love on OKP.."
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

He's respected by so many, I think people try to show individuality by giving other artists respect instead. Some people straight up don't think he was all-that, which is an opinion that I can respect just like the next. But it's like "Man.... everyone likes Pac ... I'm going to show how much I know about hip hop and disregard everything he achieved, and chose someone that isn't known by soccer moms and the like".

*~.~:~.~*~I~*~.~:~.~*

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
16899 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 11:02 AM

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43. "since i assume i might be included in this group"
In response to Reply # 41
Sun Sep-14-03 11:02 AM

          

my take on pac-

influential and important? one of, if not the most.

greatest? no.

top ten? no

top twety-five? yes.

it's not like i think he's bad, just not as good.

continue, as for this post, i still stick by my picks.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 11:04 AM

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44. "RE: since i assume i might be included in this group"
In response to Reply # 43
Sun Sep-14-03 11:04 AM

  

          

-as much as we disagree, i think you're right about this. but, you're still a punk. (love though, no hard feelings)....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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volleyneck
Member since Aug 23rd 2003
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Sun Sep-14-03 05:54 PM

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57. "This whole..."
In response to Reply # 43
Sun Sep-14-03 06:13 PM

  

          

"2pac Isn't the G.O.D" ish is new to me, so it's hard to swallow. Those closest to me have always hailed him as the greatest -- but I'll conceed that some of them don't know hip hop as thouroughly as they should, in order to make such a generalized statement. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this, and while I'll admit I don't know hip hop as well as I should either, I do feel confident in saying that Pac belongs in most all top 15 lists.

If we can agree that he's one of the (if not THE ONE) most influential and important rappers ever, to me at least, there is a direct corallary; enough respect is due to involve him in discussions of greatness. Even if you need to discern between his abilities/actions on AND off the mic -- his rhyming/flow/intelligence/profoundness/work-volume synchronized with quality .... vs. the rose that grew from the concrete/acting/giving back to the communnity -- in order to compare him to the next MC, I think he's one of the greatest. (Give me more than your 2, and I'll try to elaborate).

I don't know some of these artists' albums as well as I do Pac's, but for those that I'm confident with, I'll give the yes/no to belonging in the same category.

rakim - yes
krs-one - yes
pharoahe monch - dunno
common - yes
ras kass - dunno
aceyalone - no
ghostface - yes, because the one major flaw (undiscernably quick lyrics) works to his advantage since he's sooo unique
kool keith - dunno
big daddy kane - from what I've heard I think he belongs at least a tier below Pac
biggie - yes, for sure
chuck d - yes
posdnuos - dunno
jay-z - yes
nas - yes, for sure

Preach if you are shocked, appauled or offended -- but after going through the list of 14, I think Pac belongs no further down the ranks than 10 or so.

*~.~:~.~*~I~*~.~:~.~*

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Sun Sep-14-03 06:26 PM

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59. "trying explaing biggie is better to a pac fan"
In response to Reply # 57


          

being a white kid where all my friends idolize the dude, this can be difficult.

>I've
>spent a lot of time thinking about this, and while I'll
>admit I don't know hip hop as well as I should either, I do
>feel confident in saying that Pac belongs in most all top 15
>lists.

he might sneak in 15 if its a west coast day

>If we can agree that he's one of the (if not THE ONE) most
>influential and important rappers ever, to me at least,
>there is a direct corallary; enough respect is due to
>involve him in discussions of greatness.

mc hammer is an important rapper. run and dmc are important rappers. wonder mike is an important rapper. debra harry is-well, nevermind on that.

of course pac has more "skills" than all of them, but importance shouldn't be the litmus test for top ten.

>(Give me more than your 2, and I'll try to
>elaborate).

penny for my thoughts?

tupac-the most recognizeable and respected rapper within and outside the genre (until eminem came along-recognizeable at least.)

i can't say if and how he spoke for people. i am an 18 year old white kid. he kinda missed me (us.)

lyrically-he said alot. covered the spectrum topicwise. just rhyming words and wordplay he wasn't that special. no, you dont have to be all scientific, but have some vocab and depth.

he is a four mic mc-that got martyred and blown out of porportions. do i respect him? yes. would i respect him more if he didnt become hiphop kurt cobain? maybe. its my subconscious backlash i guess.

>pharoahe monch - dunno

listen/download to the organized konfusion records. the first two primarily. take a notice on the flow, the voice, the words, the story, the whole business.

>ras kass - dunno
maybe pac's catalogue is more impressive.

>aceyalone - no
freestyle fellowship made me realize hiphop was something special. a book of human language made me realize it could be art.

>kool keith - dunno
ultramagnetic and dr. octagon.

>big daddy kane - from what I've heard I think he belongs at
>least a tier below Pac

ehhhh, probably. but back at his prime he was untouchable. but that was over fourteen years ago really.

>posdnuos - dunno
de la soul-anything, but especially early stuff.

my top mcs (having thought about it, not just reacting)

1.pharoahe monch
2.krs-one
3.rakim
4.biggie
5.common
6.posndous
7.aceyalone
8.chuck d
9.ghostface
10.jay-z
11.black thought
12.nas
13.tupac

so he is 13 (kinda comprimising, but hes there.)

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Sun Sep-14-03 07:47 PM

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60. "edit: kool keith"
In response to Reply # 59


          

>my top mcs (having thought about it, not just reacting)
>
>1.pharoahe monch
>2.krs-one
>3.rakim
>4.biggie
>5.common
>6.posndous
>7.aceyalone
>8.chuck d
>9.ghostface
>10.jay-z
>11.black thought
>12.nas
>13.tupac

how the hell did i leave keith out? kool keith could be somewhere around 9,10,11

  

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volleyneck
Member since Aug 23rd 2003
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Sun Sep-14-03 08:03 PM

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61. "couple dollars for my thoughts"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

Seriously though, I told you I was a newb: I've just saw De La Soul for the second time a couple weeks ago, but didn't even know/remember Posdnuos' name (I read their biography today too, which makes it even more embarassing). So as for him, I will bow my head in shame, and agree wholeheartedly that he belongs up there too.

As for Aceyalone -- if Accepted Eclecctic is a legit window into his abilities, I would not even hold him up to Pac. Take "Hardship" or "I never knew" and compare them to Pac's "Pain". Lyrics: Pac is much more profound. Flow: Acey's flow is stuttering, and forced at points. Delivery: again, ignorant biased remark, but so far I think Pac's sounds like he's handing you his heart in his raps more than any other....But you didn't list "Eclectic" as his "goodness" so I'll oblige a pass because of my inexperience.

In response to the rest....

>being a white kid where all my friends idolize the dude,
>this can be difficult.
I love white people, my parents are white (I knew we existed on here somewhere)

>mc hammer is an important rapper. run and dmc are important
>rappers. wonder mike is an important rapper. debra harry
>is-well, nevermind on that.
>
>of course pac has more "skills" than all of them, but
>importance shouldn't be the litmus test for top ten.

True, those rappers are important. But we said one of (if not THE) most important and influential rappers, ever. First of all, mc hammer seems like a cheap shot at humour; he comes no where close to being as important or influential as Pac. Run DMC is arguably just as important and influential -- which is why they deserve to be involved when discussing greatness. I don't invest 100% of Pac's top-10 involvement because of his importance/influence -- but it does play a major role, since in regards to those two characteristics he is agreeably "the GOAT".

>penny for my thoughts?
>
>tupac-the most recognizeable and respected rapper within and
>outside the genre (until eminem came along-recognizeable at
>least.)
>
>i can't say if and how he spoke for people. i am an 18 year
>old white kid. he kinda missed me (us.)
I agree that songs like "White man's world" and "Gangster Party" didn't exactly hit-home with me either. But, as a fellow scholar I'm sure you would agree, songs like "Brenda's Got a Baby", "Dear Mama" or even "Pain" give us a window into a world that we understand, and should all learn out about.

>lyrically-he said alot. covered the spectrum topicwise.

This is another reason. He could make you cry with guilt and/or anger in one song, and cry with joy and/or sympathy on the very next one (see songs listed above); his work on the mic inspired ALL types of emotions. Not to mention the comfort listeners feel when it comes to coping with death; one-up on Biggie (and don't get me wrong, BIG is a hero) who was paranoid as hell about dying.

>just rhyming words and wordplay he wasn't that special. no,
> you dont have to be all scientific, but have some vocab and
>depth.

Pac was deep, I can't imagine otherwise.
Some of his work early on was agreeably unpolished. But, I've never thought of his rhyming as consistently sub-par. Again, I'm not familiar with like 5 artists on your top 13; but comparably speaking to the rest that I am familiar with, I think his rhyming and word-play definitley competes.

>he is a four mic mc-that got martyred and blown out of
>porportions. do i respect him? yes. would i respect him
>more if he didnt become hiphop kurt cobain? maybe. its my
>subconscious backlash i guess.

You're making good points, although I don't think people idolize Cobain just because he died -- people were just as obsessed with him and the grunge movement when he was breathing. With Pac, I think the martyr factor definitley gives him a boost on to peoples' shoulders; similar to Biggie. But, it's important to keep in mind that he has like 7 or so albums, while Biggie only had 3. Pac's work has been timeless, released through times like the "Cash Money" era a few years back, and whatever "Pop" era is going on now -- all while being successful and skillfully consistent. And the fact that he could make such material in a rushed few years, should be rewarded even further.
Some recent survey (anyhiphop.com?? is that even a cite?) which I'm sure you've come across, gives the top 50 MC's if they were given one full year to make an album. I bet Pac spent less time on his work than any other MC, ever. And even though some artists may be better "true freestylers", Pac's ability to work with such speed is just as credible.

>>posdnuos - dunno
>de la soul-anything, but especially early stuff.
Again, I am a reeetard. But anyways, I've been listening to 3 Feet High for the past week, and would put Posdnuos in the top ten -- but better than Pac???

I don't know enough to make a top 10 list, and exclude some of the artists on yours. But I'll get familiar to the stuff you reccomended, and hopefully find some new points to argue about j/k Thanks for the rec's.






*~.~:~.~*~I~*~.~:~.~*

  

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ricky_BUTLER
Member since Jul 06th 2003
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Sun Sep-14-03 08:13 PM

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62. "why are you convincing me?"
In response to Reply # 61
Sun Sep-14-03 08:14 PM

          

you better not have this much defense for guru (right?) or else dude is taking top spot. lol. naw, not that crazy.

just to cover all your takes. yeah, pretty much. but it pretty much comes down to a person-by-person basis, where by i "feel" this guy more. there is a connection, a fufilling of desires that whoever-mc satisfies. since there are so many objective arguements, then whatever on a personal level hits you harder, it moves you farther.

> As for Aceyalone -- if Accepted Eclecctic is a legit window
>into his abilities, I would not even hold him up to Pac.

that record was kinda weak. check out the first two freestyle fellowship records, of which he was a member (innercity griots, to whom it may concern.) if you are brave, look up "project blowed." but for his definitive solo, "a book of human language." man tells a story of all sorts of aspects of life in chapter form. when mos def said something about being a "real life documentarian", a finer example could not be found than this great record from acey.

edit*-the "haiku d'etat" record too

good luck. god speed. dont get caught by the riaa.

  

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Tariq3
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Wed Sep-17-03 09:30 AM

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113. "people like to tout his influence too often"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

that's the problem. If you take the "holy ghost" factor out of the equation he's top 25 at best.

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 09:40 AM

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119. "even WITH influences...."
In response to Reply # 113


  

          

-i've heard him cite run-dmc the most, among others, but compared to who these other dudes look up to, tariq wins that argument too....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Sun Sep-14-03 10:58 AM

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42. "2Pac is not a better MC than tariq...."
In response to Reply # 38
Sun Sep-14-03 10:59 AM

  

          

-look at the tale of the tape. put 'pac in a battle vs. thought & what would happen? on all other fronts, maybe the comp. would be close, but because of that lone fact, thought's better. i have the utmost respect for tupac shakur, but i believe that tariq is a better MC all-around. as i said before, i'm not trying to piss anybody off, or call anyone else's opinion a lie, but i really truly believe that if you sat and added up all factors w/ everyone we've named, living or dead, underground or mainstream, tariq is tops. 1/2 of the folks we've thrown out there either lack a certain skill, or flat-out can't do one of the things we judge by, (freestyle/voice/studio work/stage work/inspirations, etc.), where tariq shines in all departments. therefore, he's the greatest of all time....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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comment
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50. "co-sign."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

pac could not compete with bt on a rhyming level.

In my opinion ive never heard a tupac verse that made me think "he ripped it" but his content was heavier than most other artists and thats why hes so heavily admired. Not for his lyrical flow.

  

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volleyneck
Member since Aug 23rd 2003
1767 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 04:20 PM

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56. ""
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

>In my opinion ive never heard a tupac verse that made me
>think "he ripped it" but his content was heavier than most
>other artists and thats why hes so heavily admired. Not for
>his lyrical flow.

Pac doesn't have a lyrical flow?? Not even ONE verse. Sorry, but this made me laugh. With one of the most extensive volumes of work in hip hop, you're telling me he didn't have a single bar that flowed nicely? I'm not going to unload on you, but dayum, that's a very generalized statement to make.

*~.~:~.~*~I~*~.~:~.~*

  

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shockzilla
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Sun Sep-14-03 08:22 PM

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63. "well"
In response to Reply # 56


          

he did- but c'mon now

compare Pac's flow to Monch or Biggie's or even the man in question Black Thought

Pac was nowhere near as versatile a rhymer

hence the repetitive nature of his songs- and the fact thathe seemingly made the same songs over and over again only reinforces this repetitiveness

but with Pac it's more about his passion and his ability to make the listener really feel what Pac was saying. and he was undeniably charismatic, so much so that he's damn near worshipped around the world to this day

basically, as a rapper, tupac was a great actor- to me he's hip-hop's James Dean

  

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volleyneck
Member since Aug 23rd 2003
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Mon Sep-15-03 01:23 AM

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64. "Shall we duel? *raises sword*"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          


>compare Pac's flow to Monch or Biggie's or even the man in
>question Black Thought
>
>Pac was nowhere near as versatile a rhymer

Monch? idunno, but I do hear things (i hear some things)

BIG - toushe. When i think of Juicy - I sigh and say "that's flow" - one of the few rap songs I can rehearse word for word (well, close at least)

BT - I love his flow, I'll yell that from the mountaintops. But, and I don't mean to dogg him on his own site, compared to Pac? I'm listening to "Only God Can Judge Me Now" ... now... and remember the *I'm going to quote here, so if you know it you can just scoot on past*

"Dear Mamma can you save me
And fu peace cause the streets got our babies
We gotta eat
No more hesitation, each and every black male's trapped
and they wonderin' why we suicidal runnin' round strapped
Mista police, please try to see
that there's a million motherfuers dressin just like me
Only God can judge me"

Now, ignoring the profound nature of this verse -- I think his flow is on point. He's not only doing the Rakimesque word-play (rhyming ABC, then BBC, then BAC, and finally to CCA or something -- but making it work) but the delivery in the song itself sounds incredible -- just like acting (I liked the James Dean example)

>hence the repetitive nature of his songs- and the fact
>thathe seemingly made the same songs over and over again
>only reinforces this repetitiveness

Ouch! *gets stuck w/shock's sword again* Toushe! Repetition is a fault, true.
But it's hard to cover almost every aspect of life in a 10 page paper. He has one of the largest volumes of hip-hop work, and I would prefer for some of it to overlap instead of having holes. Now, both BT and Biggie's work are very extensive ... but I don't think they quite have Pacs' level of breadth.

>but with Pac it's more about his passion and his ability to
>make the listener really feel what Pac was saying. and he
>was undeniably charismatic, so much so that he's damn near
>worshipped around the world to this day

I said this to ricky butler -- the man gives you his heart in *almost* every song, makes you feel his heart pound; actually feeeeeel Bruce Lee (someone's sig) the words .....

>basically, as a rapper, tupac was a great actor- to me he's
>hip-hop's James Dean

lovely analogy


*~.~:~.~*~I~*~.~:~.~*

  

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comment
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Mon Sep-15-03 10:16 AM

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77. "RE: well"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

>Pac was nowhere near as versatile a rhymer
Thank you.

>hence the repetitive nature of his songs- and the fact
>thathe seemingly made the same songs over and over again
>only reinforces this repetitiveness
Good point.

>but with Pac it's more about his passion and his ability to
>make the listener really feel what Pac was saying. and he
>was undeniably charismatic, so much so that he's damn near
>worshipped around the world to this day

My feelings exactly. Please educate the others.

  

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comment
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Mon Sep-15-03 10:21 AM

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78. ""
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

>Pac doesn't have a lyrical flow?? Not even ONE verse. Sorry,
>but this made me laugh. With one of the most extensive
>volumes of work in hip hop, you're telling me he didn't have
>a single bar that flowed nicely? I'm not going to unload on
>you, but dayum, that's a very generalized statement to make.

Please read carefully. I NEVER said pac didn't have a flow. I said he was not ADMIRED for his flow. Thank you very much.

  

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volleyneck
Member since Aug 23rd 2003
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Mon Sep-15-03 07:31 PM

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87. "here's what you said..."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

"please read carefully" comment (sounds kind of patronizing, huh)...

>pac could not compete with bt on a rhyming level.

>In my opinion ive never heard a tupac verse that made me think "he ripped it" but his content was heavier than most other artists and thats why hes so heavily admired. Not for his lyrical flow.

I respect your opinion that tupac never "ripped" a single verse and doesn't have an admirable lyrical flow. But I think you were generalizing, and reaching at that. With one of the most extensive and respectable bodies of work in the game, I find it hard to believe that you truly can't find 8 bars that flow nicely. Just for one example, remind yourself of the verse in "Only God can judge me" that I wrote in reply to shockzilla: he killed it in my opinion.

How can Pac be one of the most highly-regarded rappers, if his delivery is thought of as wack by the majority? Unless you can tell me that the likes KRS or Rakim said they don't respect Pac's flow, it'll be tic for tac; I admire Pac for a lot of things -- flow included. Again, a lot of this is just opinionative: some people respect flows like Bone Thugs or Busta Rhymes more than they do Rakim or Em. Two totally different styles, and moods.

>Please read carefully. I NEVER said pac didn't have a flow.
>I said he was not ADMIRED for his flow. Thank you very much.

Again, I say "he was not admired for his flow" is a genreralized statement. You don't speak for the hip-hop community (if you heard the majority of respectable rappers say "Pac's flow sucks", let me know and I'll retract), and surely not me.

*~.~:~.~*~I~*~.~:~.~*

  

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Jeezy
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Mon Sep-15-03 08:33 AM

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71. "Re think what you just said"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

Really, no really..you honestly honestly think Thought would beat Tupac in a battle. I just dont understand where you can even think that. Is it because Thought is the illest poetic rapper on the scene? You have to understand that Tupac and Thought are real different in style. But Tupac is the one who is known for talking shit, is known for rippin mc's and not giving a fuck, and which was his mindset behind everything. If anyone still needs to be educated listen to Hit 'em up a few times, then if you still need to realize whats going on, go to your record store, buy All Eyez on Me and Me against the world, and just listen. Peace-

Jeez Y? cause i always have to

  

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comment
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76. "im sorry.."
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

but a line like "you claim to be a player but i fucked your wife" dont really move me. Anybody could come up with that.

I've thought about it...
in a battle...
pac is goin down.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Thu Sep-18-03 08:27 AM

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142. "in his defense...."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

-that was a battle rap, and i think in this case creativity takes a backseat to whatever "task" at hand. & of all of 'pac's material to quote you pick this line?! damn....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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phenompyrus
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Mon Sep-15-03 04:17 AM

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66. "RE: Everyone is real educated"
In response to Reply # 38


          

2pac and biggie are both killer mcs.
but they get so much attention b/c they are dead. lets just admit it.
i mean i like them and they can command a mic like very few.
true that 2pac may be the most respected, but the best? no.
biggie also is respected but his catalog is rather dissapointing.
now dont go saying i am dissing these guys, but they are far from being the top mcs.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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volleyneck
Member since Aug 23rd 2003
1767 posts
Mon Sep-15-03 05:58 AM

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69. "Who'm I to tell you which music to relate to..."
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

(title becomes prevelant in a sec... but first)
Pac and Biggie:
>but they get so much attention b/c they are dead. lets just
>admit it.

Have you seen video tapes of how crowded the streets of Brooklyn were when Biggie's body was rolled out in the herst? Those people didn't develop "so much attention" over-night. And Pac?? Pac's post-death existence is nothing like BIG's. More work has been released under Pac's name after his death, than was released in Biggie's entire career. And I, hopefully just like many other listeners, have the ability to step back and "just listen" objectively: ignoring the "white noise" of everything besides "MCing".

>i mean i like them and they can command a mic like very few.
>true that 2pac may be the most respected, but the best? no.

Right now, with my previous statements in mind, Pac is at least tied for 3rd -- no less than 4th; which is close enough. But I think all this "best" talk is too subjective. Like ricky said earlier, what constitutes "meaning" and importance regarding one rapper fluctuates with each listener. Skills on the mic are what a lot of it's about, but in order for you to say "this dude is no. 1 period" -- as a listener, you're probably going to want more.

Youngins today might grow up and remenisce on how listening to the "care-free" (*ahembullcoughshitahem .... sorry*) nature of Pop-rap like Lil' John or Lil' Romeo or Bow Wow, helped them escape from the depressive post 9-11/ Iraqui war times. Now anyone who who has a remote knowledge of hip-hop can discern that comparing the skills of the two genres is an unforgiveable sin. But who am I to tell someone "yeah, that music takes you to the zone, and reminds you of feelings of childhood serenity; but it's garbage compared to my mens". An artist can have all the skills, but if you don't feeeeel his/her words -- you quickly forget them, and they slip into the background.

>biggie also is respected but his catalog is rather
>dissapointing.

True, but just the fact that he accomplished/ earned so much (both BEFORE and after death) in such a short time-span , I think his catalog's value is automatically upped.

*~.~:~.~*~I~*~.~:~.~*

  

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phenompyrus
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216. "RE: Who'm I to tell you which music to relate to..."
In response to Reply # 69


          

agree with you brother.
i am not saying that these guys suck or don't have mad respect...
maybe im confusing myself i dunno.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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Jeezy
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Mon Sep-15-03 08:35 AM

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72. "You should not even be writing"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          

just dont write anymore posts.


Jeez Y? cause ignorance fools are the greatest

  

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phenompyrus
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217. ""Jeez Y? cause ignorance fools are the greatest"..."
In response to Reply # 72


          

ummmmmmmmm...
dude i didn't mean any disrespect to anyone im jus saying...
look as i said before maybe i am confusing even myself.
all i really meant was that they are two of the best , not the best. thats all i really meant. jeez man watch yourself.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

  

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WindConga
Member since May 29th 2003
4506 posts
Tue Sep-16-03 12:35 PM

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93. "RE: Everyone is real educated"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

Dawg...Tupac was adequate AT BEST.

-These catz drink champagne, and toast death & pain, like slaves on the ship talkin' bout who got the flyest chains-
-Talib Kweli

www.myspace.com/chriswynd

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Tue Sep-16-03 12:45 PM

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95. "-'Pac was more of a poet...."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

-i'm more than sure that if he was here today, he would agree that he concentrated more on speaking about shit that needed to be spoken about as opposed to how he spoke about it (speaking on terms of flow)....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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volleyneck
Member since Aug 23rd 2003
1767 posts
Tue Sep-16-03 01:12 PM

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96. "People, people"
In response to Reply # 93
Tue Sep-16-03 01:13 PM

  

          

>Dawg...Tupac was adequate AT BEST.

No offense, but unless you support your arguments, I couldn't care less what radical one-liners hit the fan. I could reply with "2 Pac will always be THE GREATEST" -- but if that's all I have to say, where does that take us? I don't mean to single out this reply out, because it's one of many (even just on this page). But please, do me a favor: if you're going to attempt to give no more than a thesis statement, know that it needs more than six words. Saying that Pac is "barely satisfactory" is an inflammatory cheap shot when standing alone.

*~.~:~.~*~I~*~.~:~.~*

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Tue Sep-16-03 01:27 PM

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97. "co-ma'fuckin' sign...."
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

-couldn't've said it better myself. i'm almost out of breath what with trying to provide explanation of my beliefs on tariq....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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WindConga
Member since May 29th 2003
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Wed Sep-17-03 09:43 AM

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122. "RE: People, people"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

This right here......

>>No offense, but unless you support your arguments, I couldn't care less what radical one-liners hit the fan. I could reply with "2 Pac will always be THE GREATEST" -- but if that's all I have to say, where does that take us? I don't mean to single out this reply out, because it's one of many (even just on this page). But please, do me a favor: if you're going to attempt to give no more than a thesis statement, know that it needs more than six words. Saying that Pac is "barely satisfactory" is an inflammatory cheap shot when standing alone.<<

......Bottom line, It is redundant to SAY MORE THAN WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID. With that said, fuck a "cheap shot", fuck a "thesis statement"..
Pac' was adequate at best, I'll say no more cus' I don't need to. Its manifest. If your offended by that then thats jus' to bad Soulja.
Peace



-These catz drink champagne, and toast death & pain, like slaves on the ship talkin' bout who got the flyest chains-
-Talib Kweli

www.myspace.com/chriswynd

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Sat Sep-20-03 07:55 PM

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155. "as an mc, yes...."
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

-he was a shade or 2 above adequate, but adequate nonetheless. as a voice, he was an icon....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Smingers
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46. "from a technical standpoint -"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

maybe nobody.

on the stage - maybe nobody.

but thought isn't the best all around mc out there.

"...let my children hear music - for God's sake - they have had enough noise."
Charles Mingus

  

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Menphyel7
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81. "RE: from a technical standpoint -"
In response to Reply # 46


  

          

I always said he was the best techincal mc there is. Its like that nigga just sat back and studied this shit to he got everything down. IT is like he couldn't do anything else but rhyme. He is a def top 10 infulence to me.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

  

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cchrono
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51. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

i got a question for all you,i keep reading i like thought better then so and so but he ain't better well if you like him better and want to listen to him before another mc,i mean how are you gonna be able to say someone is better if you can't listen to them for long i read that i can only take pac in small doses.that has to account for something if you can take him for very long that loses points with me i can listen to thought over any other mc.i don't understand how you say someone is better but you don't like them as much and wouldn't somebody's favorite usually make them the best in there head who cares if they are there favorite favorite can=best.and just because there are pioneers in rap doesn't make them great rap has come so far skill wise that it is hard for even them to make hits i mean look at rakim now can't even come out with his album yet.just cause you invented and help create the music doesn't make you the greatest a white guy invented basketball you don't see him as being the greatest player of all time so why should it be any different with mc's.black thought is easily the greatest of all time

  

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volleyneck
Member since Aug 23rd 2003
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Sun Sep-14-03 01:50 PM

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52. "*rubs eyes* n/m"
In response to Reply # 51
Sun Sep-14-03 01:55 PM

  

          



*~.~:~.~*~I~*~.~:~.~*

  

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Anonymous
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22282 posts
Sun Sep-14-03 05:59 PM

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58. "well, i somewhat agree but"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

it's like saying your favorite point gaurd is Steve Francis even though you know Iverson is better. MCing has technicalities and I believe that it's some opinion and some fact when it comes to picking "the best MC." of course there is always your own preference (i.e. i like Stevie Franchise's game better than AI, but AI puts up the better numbers). you may like the way Black Thought flows better than Nas becuz it just sounds more natural to your ear, but you still know Nas' overall lyrics are better than Black Thought. so IMO, it's possible to have an MC that is your favorite and an MC that you feel is "the best." I personally love AZ but i'll be the first to tell you that Nas is better becuz his lyrics are more complete, his beats are better...etc etc. it just so happens I like AZ's flow and relate to a lot that he says.

  

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Jeezy
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73. "I like the Clippers"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

But the lakers are better. Is that good?


Jeez Y? cause there are fabulous questions from fabulous people.

  

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johnny_domino
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Mon Sep-15-03 04:28 AM

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67. "no one's gonna convince you otherwise"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

your mind's already made up

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-15-03 05:01 AM

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68. "RE: no one's gonna convince you otherwise...."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

-precisely....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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McDeezNuts
Member since Jun 03rd 2002
5663 posts
Mon Sep-15-03 07:03 AM

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70. "I bet Thought himself does not even think that."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

>-i truly believe that tariq trotter is the BEST MC OF ALL
>TIME. convince of otherwise....

You can't be convinced because you've already made up your mind - but that doesn't mean you're right! He's good, but not THAT good.

The only way Black Thought himself would say he is the best is on some Phife Dogg "If I don't say I'm the best, tell me who the hell will" type shit. But even then, I bet dude would admit it's not serious. I'm not knocking him, but best MC of all time is pretty fucking lofty.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Mon Sep-15-03 09:39 AM

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74. "RE: I bet Thought himself does not even think that...."
In response to Reply # 70
Mon Sep-15-03 09:39 AM

  

          

-who would? and furthermore, i think that being humble in this case would make him that much more of the best....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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cchrono
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Mon Sep-15-03 10:06 AM

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75. "RE: I bet Thought himself does not even think that."
In response to Reply # 70


          

black thought is constanly saying he is the best in his rhymes have you really listen to him.he is always talkin bout how he is the best

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Mon Sep-15-03 12:11 PM

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80. "ok, silly-ass...."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

-what MC doesn't boast in-rhyme? i think that we were referring to an interview, or something of that sort. you weren't serious, were you?....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Mon Sep-15-03 01:15 PM

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82. "throw jada in the mix...."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Sep-15-03 01:41 PM

  

          

-naw, i ain't going back on what i said about tariq, this kid jadakiss is top ten most definetly. (& that's just off 1 lp!) but, seriously, is his flow hot as banana nuts, or what! is that rumor about styles writing his shit true, or is he?....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Bikkhu
Member since Sep 19th 2002
376 posts
Mon Sep-15-03 02:57 PM

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83. "let's see..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-Chali 2na
-Pharoe
-sticky fingaz
-Flipside



"Because fried chicken is good, and porno, is video, of people having sex." --FriedChicken&Porno

"Raving, My anti-Drug"
E-Pro Collective

I think I'm going to start a militant
agnostic group and declare war on the
holy....and fundamentalists

I'd rather be a crying pusy than a
faggy goth kid! -Butters

Cocaine is a hell of a drug -Rick James
(no shit jag-ov!)

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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84. "sticky fucking fingers?!?!?!?!!!!"
In response to Reply # 83
Mon Sep-15-03 04:47 PM

  

          

-ok. ya'll are getting ridiculous....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Doomdata21
Member since Jul 21st 2002
1011 posts
Mon Sep-15-03 05:20 PM

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85. "The Anvil"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

Fah real though, Tariq is probably the prototypical emcee in that he can do so much more than the competition at his position. So what if he hasn't had his own album. He's got a catalogue of over a hundred songs(maybe more) with the roots/ callabos/ remixes. The man gets respect from the greats (got the article where he gets props from Rakim). He does crazy rhymes(Datskat). He does thoughtful rhymes(What they do). He does lustful rhymes(Break you off). He does flowing rhymes(No alibi). He does grown man rhymes(Sacrifice). This man has a plethora of modes that rival if not eclipse all those who attempt his profession. For those who he rivals in these categories, I'd have to say he just sounds better to me...name who you will. Thought is blazing with no gangsta/cocaine dealer references and he does it while touring almost every d*mn day of his life. Now you just tell me who?!!?!?!!? Oh, and I'm digging Hey Yah!!!

i remember during the lawsuit with him and webb that it was brought up that he had herpes. maybe t-mac just doesn't wanna take showers next to his herpified ass. maybe juwan should play on the warriors with cliff "the clap" robinson.- roamr1 (made me gag)

"Ya'll know the bad liuetenant be on some whole 'nother other finesse genetic. They say I get it from my mother so it's inhereted." Black Thought

"One to many niggas tryna tell me bout their theory" Com

**Sig**
-Blackthought is the dopest emcee alive
-Uncle Sam and Santa Clause are good buddies.
-Be selfless and the world will be a better place.

  

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javi222
Member since Jun 14th 2003
4116 posts
Mon Sep-15-03 05:40 PM

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86. "RE: sticky fucking fingers?!?!?!?!!!!"
In response to Reply # 84


          

im sorry... but how the hell is Jay Z even near Black Thought or in a top 10???

is that a joke?

Jay Z ows his succes to his club singles... RD wasnt that special .. but after that he fell the fuck off... Vol.1, Vol.2, Vol.3, Dynasty ( wow.. you call that an impressive catalogue?) then the un-original lyrical mediocre Blueprint and Blueprint 2...

he is not original lyrically and style-wise, back-to-back albums, weak wordplay, not witty at all and his music is hardly profound...

now back to the topic.. Thought is not the best of all time.. there is not GOAT...

but he is top 10....

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Tue Sep-16-03 10:33 AM

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88. "jay...."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

-i'm still staying w/ tariq as the best, but jay is up there. i think we get wrapped up in judging by looking at the big picture (like whole albums) as opposed to specifics. Jay's flow has always been beyond exceptable. and i don't care what anyone says, reas. doubt was like a cut or two away from being classic, and the first blueprint was. hands down. i would actually go as far as to say that he would be one of the few mc's to challenge thought (losing eventually because tariq would eat his ass up in a battle). but, the man has earned his respect to me, and he deserves to be mentioned in this topic. he should be a staple in any top 15. minimum....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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soundsop
Charter member
12988 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 11:29 AM

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129. "of all the asinine statements in this thread..."
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

>(jay-z is) not witty at all

... you are the champion

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Wed Sep-17-03 12:07 PM

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130. "you agree or disagreew/ me?...."
In response to Reply # 129


  

          

-i don't understand where this post was directed towards....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Tariq3
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111. "someone need to whip yo' a**"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

i mean really man...c'mon

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 09:42 AM

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120. "i know, right?!...."
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

-i don't know where that came from. sticky fucking fingers isn't ever better than firestarr!....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Seeibattle_
Member since Sep 02nd 2003
76 posts
Tue Sep-16-03 11:19 AM

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89. "Might not be the best"
In response to Reply # 0


          

He might not be the best but I will say his timing and cadences are just stellar, as someone said before its like this guy swallowed a metronome as a kid or something.

www.deejayemcee.com

www.thesnapclap.com

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Tue Sep-16-03 11:46 AM

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90. "-tell me what he lacks...."
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

-i keep hearing how he shines on so many fronts, but so & so is better all around. i want to know what tariq lacks that MC such & such doesn't. so many have missed my point w/ this post. there's no one, and i mean NO ONE that has as much of a total-package as Black Thought, and because of this & this alone, he's the greatest of all time....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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dayzblack
Charter member
1129 posts
Tue Sep-16-03 11:58 AM

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91. "Not even in the top 5"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Thought is dope, he's an emcee's emcee. All that nigga talks about is how nice he is, nothing new, other than that he's speaking about some broad he met on tour, his live show is dope as shit, but, he ain't killing niggas like that.
He's dope like Tim Duncan is dope, he's got great fundamentals, but limited style.

Follow me on Twitter, and talk shit LIVE!
http://twitter.com/dlemoncomedy

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Tue Sep-16-03 12:41 PM

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94. "i'm sorry, but you're wrong...."
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

-judging by style indicates that your opinion is based on preference. to comment that he flows about the same ole' same ole' lets me know that you haven't heard enough of his catalog, or even a 1/4 of it. it would take me all day to name all the different topics he's touched on in flow. as i said before, ALL mc's boast, but how many of 'em have tracks like: what they do/respiration remix/hurricane/pussy galore/sacrifice/clones etc. etc. come come now. the last thing that tariq is is redundant. read up....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Tue Sep-16-03 01:45 PM

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98. "sacrifice was a bad exmpl...."
In response to Reply # 94


  

          

-i made a mistake, the message is in the chorus, but everything else i named had a mess. in the verses....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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dayzblack
Charter member
1129 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 03:01 AM

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99. "Whatever duke"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

I"m sticking to my guns on this one, his topics are limited, his style is just at par, nothing outstanding, as for pure lyrical skill he's a beast, but nothing to make him an all star, or a marquee player in the game.

Black Thought
Flow-8
Content-7
Wit-7
Stories-7

And yes, I'm more than familiar with his catalogue, please believe. But at the end of the day this is my opinion.Stick to yours.

Follow me on Twitter, and talk shit LIVE!
http://twitter.com/dlemoncomedy

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Sep-17-03 06:21 AM

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103. "-if you real, make me believe it...."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

-ok, so g'head & play yourself. if he ain't top 5, where's he at on the scale to you? & how does whoever you got over him rank in the categories you judging by.i feel like i've given more than enough backing to my opinion while yours is just stated, & that ain't cool if you disagree so strongly enough to say that he's not the best, let alone not even top 5....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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dayzblack
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Wed Sep-17-03 08:31 AM

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106. "I ain't gotta make you believe shit"
In response to Reply # 103


  

          

It's my opinion, period. Thought is cool, but the nigga ain't even in my top 5, the nigga may not even make my top 10 (if I sat around doing that type of shit) to be honest- he's dope but to me he's NOTHING SPECIAL.
I don't listen out for Black Thought, he's just another sound in the musical arangement that are the Roots. He's a proffecient emcee, I won't take anything away from him, but he just doesn't have what it takes to be viewed as one of the greatest.


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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Wed Sep-17-03 09:01 AM

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109. "thanks for the opinion...."
In response to Reply # 106
Wed Sep-17-03 09:04 AM

  

          

-but you could've kept the hostility, damn. who's your #1? (can't wait to hear this)....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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dayzblack
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133. "BIG"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

that's my #1

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Wed Sep-17-03 05:28 PM

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135. "well...."
In response to Reply # 133
Wed Sep-17-03 05:30 PM

  

          

-BIG thought tariq was swell. you think he'd feel so highly of someone whose "topics are limited" and "only talks about how nice he is" & "girls he met on tour". rankings aside, you're contradicting yourself by saying big's #1 then speaking so lowly on 'riq. not many touched on big yet, but he's up there w/ tariq. all i'm saying is give the black thought his props....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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dayzblack
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Thu Sep-18-03 03:38 AM

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138. "Where's your point?"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

"BIG thought tariq was swell."

That's cool, but we're talking about my opinion though, just because I love my mom's doesn't mean I'm going to love her taste in music. Just because I like BIG doesn"t mean I will feel as strongly about the artists he thinks are dope. I always felt that "your favorite rapper's favorite rapper" is a moot point.


"you think he'd feel so highly of someone whose "topics are limited" and "only talks about how nice he is" & "girls he met on tour"."

Who knows? He probably had a different set of criteria for what he liked in an emcee.

Lastly, I've been giving props to Thought, I just wouldn't put him in MY top 5.

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Thu Sep-18-03 05:41 AM

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139. "understand / understood...."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          

-that's all i was seeking was props....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Justion
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Wed Sep-17-03 05:10 AM

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101. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Top 5,not in order:

1.Mos Def
2.Posdonous
3.Black Thought
4.Pharoah Monch
5.Rakim

"Most of you can't even comprehend what I am saying to you,even in my human form the message I'm relaying"-Monch

  

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kinetic94761180
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104. "ask mos def about tariq's flow...."
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

-& all this de la madness is getting silly, too. y'all suggestions are like no-contests to black thought. i have nothing but respect for de la soul, and i'm not even sure if pos stands out that much in the group. but, that's another topic. c'mon y'all, i like to think that i'm very open-minded, but i haven't read bmore than 2 legitimate debates yet....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Tariq3
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Wed Sep-17-03 09:17 AM

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110. "alright....alright....let's sit the influence factor to"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Sep-17-03 09:25 AM

  

          

for just one moment.

I don't know..I think the influence factor kinda skews the tally when you start judging technique. However, influence might be applicable for a tie-breaker type scenario. While, my personal top ten would consist of cats that rank for nostalgia and influence. If I break it down to pure technique and skill then I can bring supporting evidence for the case of Thought being the best (one of the best..lets say).

I can only think of 1 MC that embodies and has mastered all the facets that Thought has in MC'ing. The other cats are not even contenders really. KRS is the only one that comes to mind.

My criteria for MC's is:

1. Flow/Pattern
2. Styles/Versatility
3. Vocal Range/Voice Quality
4. Delivery/Cadence/Breath Control (off beat/on beat/all over the damn beat!)
5. Vernacular (What seperates one author from another? All the intangibles. This includes the narrative aspect as well as slang and lingo)
6. Live Show Performance
7. Freestyle (off the top and pre-written)
8. Influence/Consistency/Career (thanks to the cat above for reminding me of consistency)

If we kept the the scale easy..say a scale of 1-3. Thought is pretty much 3's across all categories barring "Influence".

Let me just say, that Thought is one the best MC's of our times. He's an effing machine. But for all his superior ryhming skill and capability his failure has been releatability. I had to be honest with myself (as Thought is my favorite MC) and evaluate why love the cat so much. It comes down to his technical genius and raw execution. But I realized that Thought is not the MC to me that say, Q-Tip is (not that Tip is superior). It's that ability to exude your personality (ala Mos Def or Jay-Z) through your lyrics that Thought lacks. Perhaps he is just, "Black Thought", the deep weirdo cat. Or at least that's what I gather from his lyrics. But not many people relate to a cat like that.

I think that Thought is perhaps ahead of his time. He'll be studied and appreciated after his career is over. Unfortunately his influence may not be felt for years to come, if ever. He's still my nigga though.

**walks away with hands in pocket**

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Wed Sep-17-03 09:33 AM

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115. "i agree, but...."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

-as far as personality goes, i think we see sparks at times. like, how' bout the little james brown episode from the come alive lp, or the way he boosts up the beginning of concerto live? maybe our definitions of personality differs, but i like to relate it to the boasting that mc's do, which we've touched on quite a bit under this topic. i will agree that he's energetic sometimes more than others, but we only concentrate on this aspect because we hear him live so much as opposed to studio work, right?....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Tariq3
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Wed Sep-17-03 09:42 AM

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121. "I should've explained that aspect more"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

I agree that we see Thoughts personality come thru at shows. Which is great. Unfortunately it doesn't come thru in recordings. The Roots as a whole are not good at putting their collective personality together in print. This is what they lack across the boards. It's like The Roots are to music, what Thought is to lyrics. They are craftsmen and masters but for some reason they've yet to capture "personality" in the studio. Things Fall Apart was the closest that they've come.

You know there's a difference between the Pharmacist and the Drug Dealer. The Drug Dealer gets the love, while the Pharmacist is the technical master. Unfortunately, The Roots craftmanship is stifling them.


------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Wed Sep-17-03 09:59 AM

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127. "but...."
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

-compared to what these clowns are throwing at us in debate, is he that bad? i mean, it's kinda' like when we say "i can always expect so & so to be so & so". take ja rule, for example. (i know. his name should be no where near this topic) ok, let's say ludacris. you always know what to expect from him. not in a bad way, but moreso in a sense that if you're a ludacris fan for whatever reason, he never let's you down. when speaking of the roots & tariq, i feel like the greatness that was captured on tfa had always been there, and hasn't gone away yet. if anything, they've evolved SO much more, contrary to popular belief. if you ask me, illadelph was just as superior as tfa, and anything before or after was growth....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Tariq3
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Thu Sep-18-03 03:11 AM

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136. "therein lies the issue"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

The Roots flavor is an acquired taste for the most part. I think it's just a product of who they are as a crew. I mean you got Hub the older bass player, you got Quest the ultra music nerd, you got Thought the eclectic MC, and Kamal is just like a regular dude. Then you got Malik on some come and go ish. Overall, they are weird and mysterious. They don't have an image per se. That can be both a good and bad thing.

Overall I think it's worked against them in terms of mainstream popularity. But on the other hand it's allowed them to forge long standing careers as "musicians". They are respected. They got staying power no doubt. But it's fairly obvious in listening to Quest that they want to get the love that comes along with pop success ala Biggie or Jay-Z. There are certain things that you have to have to win people over. While they are craftsman I don't think they will ever really be able to crossover UNLESS they can really make an honest album that has a freeform, fun and relaxed element to it.

It's kinda like "Revenge of the Nerds". It's like they have to embrace all those things that make The Roots - The Roots and put it in peoples face like BAM...this is what it his. They can't be apologetic, phoney or fake about it. At the same time it has to be relateable, non-intrusive, scaled down and basic.

I know this was a discussion about Tariq but I think that if he's ever to get his acclaim in term of influence at some point he has to gain popularity. Otherwise he will always be an MC's - MC. Meaning he will be revered by his peers (other MC's), but will go mostly unnoticed amongst "the people".

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Thu Sep-18-03 05:58 AM

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140. "this is where you find the fork...."
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

-in the road. chalk it up to preferences again, but a lot of what you said is holding the roots back is what i love about them. it's like i said before about knowing what to expect. this is also a good thing and a bad thing, but i think it's something an artist can't help (it's them being themselves, anything else wouldn't be true, right?) & it's crazy because it's not like no one's ever heard of the roots. what are all of the reasons for them not selling like a nelly, or an eminem? is it JUST the pop angle of it? black thought has all the fundamentals & the best band in the business behind him, so why isn't he noticed like big or jay? is it the label? i've always thought that the roots feel like the extra recognition would be nice, but i don't think they care THAT much. aside from maybe money, i'm sure they're well-stocked in the appreciation dept. but, i agree that they're one radio hit away from that fame. & if they never get it, black thought will still be the best because he's that damn good....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Tariq3
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Sat Sep-20-03 09:32 AM

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144. "put away your forks..."
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

>-in the road. chalk it up to preferences again, but a lot of
>what you said is holding the roots back is what i love about
>them.

same here. I don't need image and gimmicks to see the talent. Actually, the image and gimmicks really work against you in my school of thought.

>it's like i said before about knowing what to expect.
>this is also a good thing and a bad thing, but i think it's
>something an artist can't help (it's them being themselves,
>anything else wouldn't be true, right?) & it's crazy because
>it's not like no one's ever heard of the roots.

see that's the thing. People are hip to The Roots. 10 years in the game and responsible for introducing other talented folks into the industry. People know about The Roots. But I think it's for the reasons I stated that they haven't gained a level of mainstream notariety.

what are all
>of the reasons for them not selling like a nelly, or an
>eminem? is it JUST the pop angle of it? black thought has
>all the fundamentals & the best band in the business behind
>him, so why isn't he noticed like big or jay?

It's Thought. It's just him being him. It goes back to the point I made about being able to take the show element and bleed it on tape in recording sessions. It comes natural for Jay and Big. There personalities came thru. There's something lacking with Thought and it may very well be the narrative aspect that Quest pointed out some time ago.

>is it the
>label?

Well, I'd say that the label fiascos have done their share of hindering the marketing and media opportunities for the crew. There's been some prime opportunities that should have been taken advantage of during their career that the labels have faltered on severly.

Even up to know. I almost feel like sending Quest a personal letter pleading to him to get Complexity released as a single/video. That song is infectious and relateable. From a hype standpoint people are looking for Jill. What better way to glean some light off of Jills success with a dope video for the song. Thought and Jill kill it. Add in my recommendation to have the 'Tunes remix it and you've got yourself one hell of a 2-part video.

i've always thought that the roots feel like the
>extra recognition would be nice, but i don't think they care
>THAT much. aside from maybe money, i'm sure they're
>well-stocked in the appreciation dept.

It's respect. They got it. The love is what they don't have.

>but, i agree that
>they're one radio hit away from that fame. & if they never
>get it, black thought will still be the best because he's
>that damn good....

I agree there which is why I made my prior statements. Thought is my favorite MC and the case can easily be made for him being "technically" the best MC. However, it remains that he doesn't have the notariety like an LL, Kane, Jigga, Big, Pac, etc...He doesn't have household name status yet.

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Sat Sep-20-03 07:48 PM

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152. "so, which do you prefer...."
In response to Reply # 144


  

          

-back to the subject of thought, in turn, back to preference. do you think the "in your face" personality in flow (like big) is more potent compared to the more laid-back & sincere manner of black thought? because, while agree that the more "open" way may reach more, i think the more sincere way means more. kind of like quantity v. quality. and in the case of mc'ing, i see the best as one of those who stands without those gimmicks & standard images. that narrative aspect that thought has is something that no one does better, but at the same time, he can do everything everyone else does. literally. he's "in your face" when he wants to be....

-& co-sign on the complexity idea. that would get sure play. name me an mc besides com', kwe', & mos that could've wrote that piece or something like it....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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chillinCHiEF
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Wed Sep-17-03 09:36 AM

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117. "3000 & Redman"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

off the top of my head, but Thought is def top 10. Hell, maybe top 5.

  

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Tariq3
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Wed Sep-17-03 09:44 AM

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124. "see...I can respect that"
In response to Reply # 117
Wed Sep-17-03 09:45 AM

  

          

moreso Redman because he's got skin in the game. Not that Dre doesn't but damnit Red is sick with his. Yet and still when I hold him up to the MC bar. He's falling a wee bit short in categories where Thought excels.

Dre would be the "peoples choice" but perhaps not the judges choice. Know what I mean?

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Wed Sep-17-03 09:46 AM

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125. "RE: 3000 & Redman...."
In response to Reply # 117


  

          

-i almost want to say that andre' is in that same "poet" boat w/ 'pac, & while i have a whole lot of respect for red', i don't think he's that "serious" of a contender. and how can you say redman and not mention meth, who i would easily put above both him and andre'....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Tariq3
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Thu Sep-18-03 03:18 AM

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137. "nah..I gotta disagree"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

>and how can you say redman and not mention meth, who i would
>easily put above both him and andre'....

Meth is nowhere near Red on a skills. Meth ain't done nothing fresh since his verse on Shadowboxin'. Since then he's verses have been an amalgamation of previous styles he's done. Overall his content is weak and he's done nothing to really elvolve lyrically. While some of the same could be said of Redman. He OFTEN come thru with some ish that makes me say, "Damn, that nigga still got it".

Red has shown a great level of technique from his styles, delivery and voice. As far as raw illness goes he one of thats that I gotta give credit to.

As far as Dre goes, I can't say that I'm a Dre afficianado. I like his skills and vernacular but I've never really been able to put my finger on him. Kast makes such drastic changes that I've never really been a hardcore fan of their work.

------------------------------------------------------------
subhaanakallahumma (Glory be to you, Oh Allah), wabihamdika (and I praise You).
Ashhadu anla ilaha illa anta (I bear witness that none has the right to be
worshipped except You). Astaghfiruka

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Thu Sep-18-03 06:04 AM

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141. "once again it's the other m&m...."
In response to Reply # 137


  

          

-method has and always will be sick w/ the wordplay. i've always thought of him & red as one in the same, while tending to favor meth' on some love of wu-tang 'ish- and while i will say that redman's lp's are way better, i can't agree with you basically saying that meth' fell off. it's just like i said, you know what to expect from him. both of them for that matter, but the man does know how to compose a verse. both of 'em do. and again, dre's cool, but he's not among the elite. come to think of it, he doesn't excell THAT much over big boi....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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okayyac
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Sat Sep-20-03 11:48 AM

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147. "*backs out of post slowly*"
In response to Reply # 0


          

whoa....


just whoa....


Thought the best ever?

Top 20 maybe...


#1???


bwaahahahaha how long have you been listening to hip-hop?

jesus christ...

  

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kinetic94761180
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Sat Sep-20-03 07:49 PM

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153. "who's better, punk...."
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

-answer the question before you go....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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okayyac
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Sun Sep-21-03 09:34 AM

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163. "okay, let's see"
In response to Reply # 153


          

and I think Thought is dope, but...

KRS
Rakim
Common
Nas
Pac
Pos
Jay-Z
Dave of De La
Kweli
Andre 3000
Pharoahe Monch
O.C.

and there's more, but i don't feel like writing them all down...


oh yeah, and let me tell you how tough you are calling everybody punks that doesn't agree with your stupid little dickriding opinion...

  

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kinetic94761180
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Sun Sep-21-03 01:19 PM

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169. "here we go again...."
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

-why couldn't you just post your picks & back out of the room like you said? why i gotta' be a dick-rider? if you want to be technical, atleast i'm giving reason behind my belief. all you're doing is naming names. mean people suck....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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okayyac
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Sun Sep-21-03 01:53 PM

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170. "RE: here we go again...."
In response to Reply # 169


          

>-why couldn't you just post your picks & back out of the
>room like you said? why i gotta' be a dick-rider? if you
>want to be technical, atleast i'm giving reason behind my
>belief. all you're doing is naming names. mean people
>suck....

yes, all im doing is naming names because this post is ridiculous, and you're the dumbass who stuck in a "punk" so don't come at me like im being aggressive.

shit like this gives me the feeling that you haven't listened to much hip-hop.

go listne to KRS, Rakim, and the rest of those people i named then come talk to me.

christ man...

  

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kinetic94761180
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Sun Sep-21-03 03:29 PM

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173. "you're right...."
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

-how could i have ever questioned YOU! what the hell do i know about hip-hop? fuck, what do i know about music in general? what in the name of all that's holy gives me the right to even think of speaking on such a matter? where do i find the nerve....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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okayyac
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Mon Sep-22-03 02:09 PM

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184. "RE: you're right...."
In response to Reply # 173


          

what the hell do i
>know about hip-hop?

Obviously not much.


only on the Okayartist board, go post this on the Lesson and see how much this thread gets ripped apart and disproved.


  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-22-03 03:30 PM

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185. "you're kicking a dead horse...."
In response to Reply # 184


  

          

-i already said you win. must we continue w/ the insults?....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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and_thatz_whatz_up
Member since Sep 20th 2003
53 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 06:31 PM

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149. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Thought is by far dope.. dont get me wrong. I'ma get eaten for this, but I say Pharoahe and Pun. Thought has only once proven to me that he's perfectly fine without the Roots (Super Lyrical), but he DID showed me some light.
Noteworthy - Vinnie Paz & Canibus (yes I said it, Canibus)..

"Your first impression might be I'm a asshole" - BT
"Synthesized surface conceals the interior" - Mighty Mos
"You think you hot I'll shut your heat down like New York Knicks" - T.Greene

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 07:53 PM

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154. "i respect your opinion, but no...."
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

-monch is nice, but he can't do all the things tariq can do. and please don't start this big pun argument. he holds a lot of sentimental value, but i don't think he's ever been among the elite. maybe he could've done more w/ time, but regardless of whatever, black thought definetly doesn't rank below him....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Phragile
Member since Sep 21st 2003
8 posts
Sat Sep-20-03 11:28 PM

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157. "I like the way ya'll think..."
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

I like the way ya'll think, but isnt this a opinion subject?
like, I think BT is da bomb, but that there are guys who're better, for me thats Guru (I totally LOVED 'Lift your fist') but isnt that just my opinion?
I read the first few comments, and all I read was the NO-You're-WRONG-kinda comments...

"Videogames dont make murderers...They just make the ones existing more creative!" -Zebob (Dont worry... Ya'll dont know him!)

"Hi my name is Bill... I might be the last person you see alive" - Bill

"JimmynoooOoooooOoo!!" -Will Smith

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 05:45 AM

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160. "no YOU'RE wrong...."
In response to Reply # 157


  

          

-just kidding. but, that's what i've been after all along. i want someone to tell me i'm wrong about tariq being the best & have some backing to the statements. you're right, it's all opinion. ( a true statement isn't your opinion, it's a fact you agree w/-) like your guru statement- i think you're wrong in saying he's better because i don't feel like his wordplay is as ill- almost like his verses don't flow together as well as thought's. and yet & still, no one has named an mc, other than krs & maybe kweli, who can command crowd like tariq....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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javi222
Member since Jun 14th 2003
4116 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 07:20 AM

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161. "Music comes first ..."
In response to Reply # 160


          

"However, it remains that he doesn't have the notariety like an LL, Kane, Jigga, Big, Pac, etc...He doesn't have household name status yet."

its music.. not a personality contest...

though that may hold him back when comparing Thought to someone as good as him... like Krs One or Pharoahe Monch...

but not people like Kane, Jay Z, LL, Pac and Big who are no way seeing Black Thought...

emceeing skills a more important than personality.. if not then Snoop would be the GOAT..

its funny these people saying Thought has limited subject matter..dont know why.. but are quick to mention Jay Z over him when all his albums are the same and has very weak subject matter....

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 12:40 PM

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164. "my sentiments exactly...."
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

-but stop making the monch comparison, because, again he can't do everything tariq does. and anyone who says that tariq has no subject matter disqualifies themselves from debate contention. says me....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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and_thatz_whatz_up
Member since Sep 20th 2003
53 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 08:08 AM

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162. "RE: i respect your opinion, but no...."
In response to Reply # 154


  

          

sentimental? the man was nice.. still is nice.. in MY opinion he was a dope emcee.. I mean I'm not sayin that Thought is wack or anything. To be in the company of Thought is dope in it's self, but Pun has never disappointed me.


"Your first impression might be I'm a asshole" - BT

"When I got the nigga that you trying to be watching my wordplay" - (Muah)
"When it's all said and done I wanna push more CD's than Memorex" - Brand 1

  

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Love_Boxx
Member since Sep 20th 2003
81 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 12:59 PM

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166. "RE: i respect your opinion, but no...."
In response to Reply # 162


          

I love it when these different cliques get their lexicon, fan favorites, clothing styles, etc. "To be an okayplayer, you must wear che t-shirts, read A People's History of The United States and listen to the Roots (of course!!), Talib Kweli and Jill Scott. Any listening to Jay-Z, Camron, Snoop Dogg or their ilk will result in three demerits..."
To quote Jay "First album niggaz love me cause they thought I was poor, Guess I'm successful; industry don't love me no more
Well I'm the same nigga from your corner, bubblin raw
Skully tilted, pants saggin, damn near touchin the floor
And I come with do-rags to your so-called awards
T-shirt with my chain out like fuck y'all all".

Come on, let's not have a dress code to be an okayplayer--let cats stand on their own merit.

If anyone's feeling this type of analysis, check out my column...

Nerds Eye View of Hip-Hop


Peace

www.daveyd.com

Nerds Eye View of Hip Hop

"Don't even hate on those that hate me, I've got Pac on"


Peace

Check out:
www.daveyd.com

Nerds Eye View of Hip Hop

"Don't even hate on those who hate me, I've got Pac on"

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 01:02 PM

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167. "a lot of kids can rap, but...."
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

-all due respect & may he rest in peace, but he's no black thought. all that big pun was to me was a bunch of words, sometimes too much, and the occasional tight metaphor. i can think of about 50 mc's who do everything he did just as well. (his boy jose is a mirror image in every single way) but only selected few, (no one, pending debates w/ more foundation) can do what tariq does....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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and_thatz_whatz_up
Member since Sep 20th 2003
53 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 02:03 PM

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172. "RE: a lot of kids can rap, but...."
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

how bout hittin OHHLA and readin some of the stuff that man said.. he was nice. set a poll up and ask.. the man was takin way too early like BIG but.. he was nice as all hell. Why would Thought work wit em if he wasn't?

"Your first impression might be I'm a asshole" - BT

"When I got the nigga that you trying to be watching my wordplay" - (Muah)
"When it's all said and done I wanna push more CD's than Memorex" - Brand 1

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 03:31 PM

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174. "i only said he wasn't better than thought...."
In response to Reply # 172


  

          

-no one's doubting what he was....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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mecca1982
Charter member
4901 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 01:55 PM

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171. "KWELI!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

bt can spit, but kwe's shit is heavier, more substance

...imho

NFourteen karat gold slum computer wizard.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Sun Sep-21-03 03:35 PM

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175. "already been said...."
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

-i said before, he's right up there w/ tariq to me. but, kweli is almost strictly a battle mc. i just feel like black thought is more complete. but yes, talib kweli is among the elite to me, just like his other "boho/conscious" buddies....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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MaineRapKingB
Charter member
2184 posts
Mon Sep-22-03 02:12 AM

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176. "Nature"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

check the avatarrrrrr

_________________________________________________________________
http://natureqb.blogspot.com/

Support your favorite rappers, check the blog for the latest from QB's Nature

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-22-03 07:17 AM

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177. "that's not a bad suggestion...."
In response to Reply # 176


  

          

-nature actually kinda nice, but, the greatest? er....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Nathaniel
Charter member
9962 posts
Mon Sep-22-03 07:29 AM

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178. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

are you trying to be funny?

King James Bible states in (1st Corinthians 14:8-9)-"..Again, If the trumpet does NOT sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?..So it is with you."

For an audible glimpse of my sound, click here: http://www.zshare.net/audio/9549455779abe02a/

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-22-03 07:38 AM

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179. "no, not at all...."
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

-did you have a suggestion, or....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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Sparenon
Member since May 28th 2002
98 posts
Mon Sep-22-03 07:41 AM

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180. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

You cats are tripping with no where to un-pack. BT is nice but he lacks guided content. A lot of his lyrics are like written freestyles, not very concept oriented. I don't think he is anywhere close to Pharoah Monch. Pharoah is a monster with the flow and content. Rass Kass is by far a better MC. Go listen to "Nature of the Threat" and tell me what BT could write that could combat that. BT is nice but he never brings it home. The last roots album is a great example of that. You keep waiting for him to explode and he duds.


Let the hate begin

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-22-03 08:15 AM

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181. "check it out...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

-i recently visited a fellow hip-hop oriented website, and imagine my surprise to find an 11 page long thread on the greatest mc. you had your majority of 2pac/big/krs/rakim posts, but i also found a wide variation of other suggestions like: audio-two, king-tee, wickeda mc sammy deluxe, misfit, jeru, kurupt, k-os, ez-q, mr. eon, canibus, bahamadia, sage francis, anti faz (underground cat from chile or some shit), cee-lo,rah digga, snoop, juice (the dude who beat eminem in '98), aesop, shit, one silly-ass even said snow!? my point is this. after every single suggestion was atleast a paragraph on what that mc brought to the table & why he or she was better than others. now, i'm realizing now that i worded my topic wrong, & that it should've read "who's the greatest mc" w/o naming names & saving my black thought suggestion for the actual post. ladies & gentleman, all i was after was some insight. instead i've been called "stupid", "dickrider", and "deaf & blind". the truth is that there is no real answer. only the freedom to state your opinion, & throw in some facts to try to convince others, which is all i was after. so let this serve as my public apology to any & all who were mislead....


_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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and_thatz_whatz_up
Member since Sep 20th 2003
53 posts
Mon Sep-22-03 08:38 AM

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182. "RE: check it out...."
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

you say that all the while tryin to convince everyone who posted with the very "opinion" you are looking for..

"Your first impression might be I'm a asshole" - BT

"When I got the nigga that you trying to be watching my wordplay" - (Muah)
"When it's all said and done I wanna push more CD's than Memorex" - Brand 1

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-22-03 01:43 PM

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183. "sorry...."
In response to Reply # 182


  

          

-i was only giving my opinion y'all, like i said. for it to come to an argument is silly. so again, i apologize. much love y'all....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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jaeism
Charter member
359 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 03:34 AM

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188. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 0


          

not many -

but i Prefer:

LBoogs
Nas
Kweli
Mos

equal - common / andre

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 06:22 AM

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191. "lauryn hadn't been mentioned...."
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

-but she's up there w/ him too....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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TekzillaOhioSt
Member since Sep 18th 2002
6861 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 05:04 AM

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189. "wow..................................."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

2Pac
The Notorious B.I.G.
Eminem
Redman
Pharoahe Monch
Ras Kass
Slick Rick
Rakim
Mos Def
Talib Kweli
Canibus
DMX
LL Cool J
EPMD
Nas
Jay-Z
Royce Da 5'9
Outkast (Pre Speakerboxx/Love Below)
Snoop Dogg
Kool G Rap

that's my list. BT is top 30 somewhere. hes nice. but he aint that nice.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 06:34 AM

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193. "there's no way...."
In response to Reply # 189


  

          

-that you can compare all those mc's in about say, 7 different reasonable arguments (story-telling, studio work, stage work, era, etc.) & not have tariq in atleast top 10....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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TekzillaOhioSt
Member since Sep 18th 2002
6861 posts
Wed Oct-01-03 11:43 AM

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209. "RE: there's no way...."
In response to Reply # 193


  

          

damn dawg, do you even listen to any hip-hop aside from The Roots?

honestly i prolly woulda had BT somewhere in my top 20 but his work on Phrenology was trash.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Oct-01-03 02:12 PM

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210. "on the contrary...."
In response to Reply # 209


  

          

-i'm more than sure that i know the music of those you listed better than most, as well as the roots and acts of almost every other genre. i was actually beginning to feel that much of the backlash i got from this post was in result to others' lack of diversity in musical taste, judging by the many who couldn't offer insight past "a lot of mc's are better than black thought". if people would look at it from every angle, i think more would agree that tariq's up there. i said that he was the best of all time, in defense, often throughout this discussion, meaning to say that he was better than whoever said, and i gave reason. but, my original question was who's better. so, to answer your question, yes. i listen to plenty hip-hop outside of the roots. and as far as phrenology being trash goes, read 205....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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TekzillaOhioSt
Member since Sep 18th 2002
6861 posts
Fri Oct-03-03 05:27 AM

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215. "RE: Phrenology...."
In response to Reply # 210


  

          

of course it's a matter of opinion...but i just dont see how anyone can honestly say that Thought's lyrical work was better on Phrenology than Things Fall Apart, Organix, or any of their other full length LP's.

its just ludacris i tell ya!

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Fri Oct-03-03 07:03 AM

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220. "-put 'em all together & whaddaya get?...."
In response to Reply # 215
Fri Oct-03-03 07:06 AM

  

          

-the best. we're not talking about which project was better for tariq, we're talking about how his collective works compare to those of whoever you say is better. stick to the script....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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TekzillaOhioSt
Member since Sep 18th 2002
6861 posts
Sun Oct-05-03 10:09 AM

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224. "we both fell off script dawg"
In response to Reply # 220


  

          

ive given up on the "blk thgt is the g.o.a.t.". i was talking about his performance on Phren.

  

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JSYM7
Member since Jul 31st 2003
219 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 06:41 AM

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194. "Does it really matter?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I mean black thought is nice in his own right but to be the greatest you would have to do more than just be a great technical MC. Besides I never subscribe to greatest of all time theories because to even come close to being accurate you would have to have a clear beginnig and ending of a Genre or whatever and take a look at who made the greatest impact on that artistic meduim. I mean Thought is no doubt one of the nicest hands down but what has been his subtantial contribution to totally change the direction of the culture called hip-hop.
Here is an example Nobody was rapping like rakim before he came out when he came he brought a style that many artist reference to this day. Same thing with Nas or take the way run dmc dressed and mixed rock and rap in a way nobdies has since(and done it that well). Black thought will always be considered one of the greatest though I mean he has an Iron Clad flow and nice cadence and a voice that's distinctive but he hasn't had his moment to redifine what is rap to the world yet and lets not use the band thing as an example cause that is more Questloves baby per say.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 06:54 AM

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197. "so what you're saying is...."
In response to Reply # 194


  

          

-time'll tell. i agree. but, if we're gonna' wait & judge by what whatever said mc has done for the culture, depending on how many other thing's we'd judge by, 75% of these people named would be persona non grada. or something. and if tariq gets nothing else out of the roots, he still boasts quite a stage show, & the experience behind 'em....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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gsquared
Member since Oct 26th 2002
3647 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 07:52 AM

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198. "..nobody..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

...is fuckin better than Black Thought...you can get to the point where you are as good as anyone can be, and Tariq is that, the brother is a channeler of otherworldly fuckin energy...you *earn* that shit...





"The Hiphop community exists as an international culture of consciousness that provides all races, tribes, religions, and styles of people, a foundation for the communication of their best ideas and works. Hiphop Kulture is united as one multi-skilled, multi-cultural, multi-faith, multi-racial people, committed to the establishment and the development of peace."

--Hiphop declaration of peace, Temple of Hiphop





http://www.GaryPatrickGarry.com

"I'm stalling in flight
Hovering over horizons
Waiting for night"

"My turn to speak in tongues"
--Photosynthesis

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/photosynthesis_music.htm

  

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AquaBoogie
Member since Feb 28th 2003
3478 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 08:38 AM

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201. "RE: who's better than blk thgt?...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


Thoght is nice, but calling him the best Emcee of all time is pushing it.

This kinda shit talk can only happen on okayplayer.

But, if he keeps going the way The Roots are going, he'll be lost.

And his performances were much, much better when he was younger, but in my opinion, hip hop is not the best live art form (concert wise).

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 09:41 AM

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203. "my point exactly...."
In response to Reply # 201


  

          

-let's look at the whole picture. anything "they" can do, thought can do just as well, sometimes better, few exceptions, along w/ holding the stage down better than anyone, only argument being krs....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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AquaBoogie
Member since Feb 28th 2003
3478 posts
Mon Sep-29-03 10:43 AM

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204. "Don't get it twisted ...."
In response to Reply # 203


  

          


.... I do not feel that BT is the best ever ... not at all, but if they keep filling LPs with the garbage that was on Phrenology he will not be used to his potential.

The kid can spit. I'd rather hear him tear it up than do joints like The Seed 2.0.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Tue Sep-30-03 06:06 AM

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205. "he shined on phren...."
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

-"thought @ work" ("if i run out of shots i'm goin' out pokin'"), he ripped "rock you", the whole "complexity" joint was great (at times the best of the whole project, even going by just tariq's 3 verses), as much as y'all say "sacrifice" sucked, you came name too many who'd collab. w/ nelly furt. and have better results on an mc tip ("my microphone'll make a man a newborn infant, it's truth, so the true gon' sense it, i get in the zone"), there's no need to mention the tracks w/ kweli, because he always holds his own amongst kwe, mos, com & all his other "boho" buddies, i can only think of ll off the top of my head who can even compare on a "chick" track (break you off, complex.), he gave you your story w/ "water", and don't even make me speak on the "quills" & "pussy galore". it's like, say what you will, but, again, take that list you got up there, and let's compare studio work using phren for tariq (which many may say isn't the best display of his work), and you come up w/ a decent argument for 9 of those mc's (or however many of 'em are better than tariq) & get back at me....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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AquaBoogie
Member since Feb 28th 2003
3478 posts
Wed Oct-01-03 09:15 AM

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206. "He was better when he was younger."
In response to Reply # 205


  

          


And I never made a list. I think your anger has confused me with someone else.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Oct-01-03 10:26 AM

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207. "well...."
In response to Reply # 206


  

          

-.......sorry. damn....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Wed Oct-01-03 10:28 AM

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208. "but still...."
In response to Reply # 204


  

          

-how dare you say phrenology was filled w/ garbage. fuck the lists, defend that statement....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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AquaBoogie
Member since Feb 28th 2003
3478 posts
Thu Oct-02-03 02:21 AM

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211. "RE: but still...."
In response to Reply # 208
Thu Oct-02-03 02:25 AM

  

          

I've done it too many times on this board. Almost to the point where I should keep my argument somewhere and copy and paste it each time some sucka wants to bring up yet another Phrenology arguement.

If you can't see the difference between Thought on The Seed 2.0 and a joint like Distortion to Static, there's no point.

Yes, there are some points on Phrenology when he gets down, but, like I said, if they keep jocking this whole rock thing, he will be lost. I'm not saying he will be lost because he is part of a band (like others argue), but lost because the direction the band is going doesn't allow him to showcase much with the direction the music is going.

For me to go through my Phrenology arguement with a hard headed Roots dickrider who was bold enough to make a post like this, it would be a waste of time. Learn your history.

This is why I spend most of my time in the Lesson talking about something other than Okayartists. When you have boards on an artist site, you get jaded kats making statements/argements like this.

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
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Thu Oct-02-03 06:07 AM

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212. "that was harsh & wrong...."
In response to Reply # 211


  

          

-& i won't restort to anymore name-calling. you were the one who brought up this old v. new thing, while i speak of tariq as a whole (fuck how old he is). we all know that seed was a rock joint, so why use that as your comparison to what he did before? it seems like your talking in circles trying to cover yourself saying that phrenology sucks, just 'cause you don't like the seed. i mean, to say that someone was better or worse before is dumb, change is inevitable, right? & oh how fitting is it to jump directly to the "dickriding" argument after someone gives you a decent debate about something. can't i just be a fan? learn my history? you say that i must only listen to the roots, but talk down on diversity by saying that they shouldn't do anything but typical hip-hop music? c'mon man. i know plenty about music. i'm sure i know more than you. it's ok to be wrong, but let's keep it civil regardless. damn....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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comment
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2828 posts
Fri Oct-03-03 08:52 AM

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221. "damn"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

yall still arguing?

  

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kinetic94761180
Member since Jul 05th 2002
17385 posts
Fri Oct-03-03 09:02 AM

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222. "-yeah, 'fraid so...."
In response to Reply # 221
Fri Oct-03-03 09:02 AM

  

          

-no one wants to give tariq his minimum-top-ten-props....

_____________
if racism is a cancer, black thought is the answer.

Rjcc is code for "bitch-ass troll"

DROkayplayer™

  

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