HighVoltage Member since Jan 04th 2004 16583 posts
Thu Dec-07-06 07:20 PM
5. "i couldnt hear what he said through all that bullshit" In response to Reply # 0 Thu Dec-07-06 07:42 PM by HighVoltage
I hate when people love to look at numbers and criticize, acting like they could do a better job as a CEO of a record label, because Jay is right. The industry's sales are definately on a decline and numbers today arent what they were a few years ago.
However, it pisses me off more when a label exec hides behind that excuse and uses it for every album that doesnt sell well, just to avoid the truth they are fully aware of, such as the bullshit statement he made that all the artists on his label are treated equally. We arent dumb, we have an idea of how label politics work and you can clearly see plain as day who gets an extra push and who doesnt.
7. "RE: Jay-Z speaks on Def Jam's handling of Game Theory" In response to Reply # 0
Whoever is interviewing Jay-Z here is extremely annoying and ignorant. This is a very easy concept to understand, there are marketing budgets stipulated in the contract that the artist signs. Any extra "push" as you call it, comes about as a result of market forces determined after the album is released. There are definitely artists that get this extra "push" (aka Mariah) as - quite obviously - there deals call for it. Jay-Z is running a business and is responsible to shareholders, and therefore must watch the bottom-line above everything else. What do you think running a business means? I'm sure he wishes he could write a blank check to market each one of his artists (as why wouldn't he?), but the reality is that he cannot do this while maintaining any sort of fiscal credibility as a company president.
From a business perspective, do you think it would be a good idea to blow Def Jams' entire marketing budget on a Roots or Method Man record and f*ck over the rest of the artists on their roster? C'mon people, just because you're in charge of one team doesn't mean you can change the rules of the game being played. The recording industry is in a state of decline and is still in a period of adjustment as a result of the proliferation of downloading. It would be foolish to assume that President Carter has/had access to unlimitted marketing funds.
That woman interviewing him is brutal and should be taken off the radio. Questions like, "some people on the street have gripes with you because of your marketing strategies, what do you have to say about that?" are mind-boggingly dumb. Why do people take it personally when an artist doesn't sell well? Who cares? I'm worried about how I'm going to eat not about Questo (god love him & the roots) but I think they would agree that they'll make it through this "trying" time of less than expected first week record sales. Let's try to keep this in perspective......
12. "i see your point, but" In response to Reply # 7
regarding things being personal...this was a philly redio station.
a philly radio stationthat loves and supports the roots (the dj's anyway).
she spoke as a fan.
it alwasy feels good when your favorite artists that you have been a fan of forever finally gets some shine. you feel proud, happy that others can share in what you love about them.
only fans understand the personal connection to an artists. thats why people faint at micheal jackson concerts, sleep out for prince tickets and throw panties ont he stage during rock shows. they love their artists on a personal level.
she took it there as a fan and not as any type of journalists.
unprofessional..maybe, but it got to the heart of the question? those were questions I woudl have asked given the opprotunity, because i'm a fan.
14. "man you feel me!!!!!!" In response to Reply # 12 Fri Dec-08-06 10:47 AM by LaLaLaiya
Yo thats ill because thats exactly how i felt. I asked him what i asked and the WAY that i asked because 1. Im a fan of the Roots, a DIE HARD fan, anyone who listens to our show on the regular will tell you that...
2. I speak to folks in the camp on the regular and get to hear their perspective and what effort was put into "Game Theory" on the Root's side of things..so i know what could have been done on a "label standpoint"
3. I work at a Commercial Urban Radio Station in Philadelphia and know for a fact that my Music Director and Program Director were NOT wooed in the least to play any Roots music (and i know they shouldnt have to be, but fuck it its the fucked up world I live in). I mean not even asked by Def Jam..you hear that? NOT EVEN ASKED!
15. "on: radio presence" In response to Reply # 14
i noticed the people that "grind hard" seem to do pretty good at least seem to have more "lable support"
question? how does an artists get on radio? i mean those in studio interviews, those live in session joint the roots alwasy do for giles peterson and such; why couldn't we get some of those in the US?
is it an issue of the station or the artists not being interested. i mean i've heard eveery up and comer on the radio shilling their were at one point or another...except the roots. the only time i heard ?uest on radio is on bbc1 taking over giles' show.
i know thought doesnt do press, but thats another post.
just asking how does an artists get into the studio to talk about their project?
thanks ________________________________________ return to your home citizens
madagascar titties- (c) phontiggalo the rap jiggalo
I would never, ever hit a woman....but i'll beat a bitch (c) wifey
13. "RE: Jay-Z speaks on Def Jam's handling of Game Theory" In response to Reply # 7
Fiscal responsibility? Shareholders's stake? Man, you're talking to people who don't understand that the music INDUSTRY is. All the artists on Def Jam are doing #s they accustomed to do. Somehow CEO Carter was supposed to come with the marketing magic to double/tripple their numbers...
__________________________________________________ I don't take it personal, I take it seriously _____________________________
16. "damn...monie is a radio gangsta too?" In response to Reply # 0 Fri Dec-08-06 12:47 PM by Von Pea
its a shaaaaa-aaaa-aaaaame
its saying a lot that the roots put out THAT album on def jam. thats an experimental record on a big rap label. there was no big single. dont feel right was the single and i watched a room full of hip hop heads just stand there when it came on. its funny how people wanted the roots to go platinum because jay z signed them while people that have been on okayplayer since day 1 didnt even buy it. the roots have been sucessful when they had popular singles, and they didnt have one this time and thats the bottom line. i bet some of the folks in this post dont own game theory! jay's co sign aint as big as people think. i havent seen anybody fuck with lupe because he knows jay. they fuck with him because of kick push and because hes nice.
24. "RE: damn...monie is a radio gangsta too?" In response to Reply # 16
if don't feel right was THE single then it was poor single selection imho. I think there are a couple singles on there, maybe not to the level that would push them to platinum but there are definitely catchier tracks on that record. Here I come, Long Time, and Baby come to mind.
don't feel right felt a bit recycled...2 chord minor jam. been there done that.
the 3-in-1 video was interesting but whoever thought that would promote the record needs to get their head out of the clouds.
the modern audience has a.d.d. and needs to be spoonfed simpler fare. they need something basic and memorable, even if the message is meant to be a profound one.
that doesn't mean it has to be singsongy nursery rhyme crap like young joc but i think jay had a point when he said he was already successful at marketing himself before he went to def jam. You have to consider the psychology of the people you are trying to reach, not just your own high ideas.
i don't know if they are, but if the roots are looking for that kind of commercial success they are going to have to find ways to marry artsiness and social messages with good marketing...
like it or not but charisma and image have so much to do with getting people to listen.
Even the most value-driven social revolutionaries used "hooks" so to speak to get their message out. Read MLK, Gandhi, or Che's speeches....maybe a weird reference considering this is music but the same principle applies.
39. "RE: the 'revolution' will be sold basically" In response to Reply # 37
nah. i'm not saying i approve. it's just the way it is unfortunately...be happy with the success you have or do what you gotta do to expand your audience.
45. "what movement do you know that doesn't didn't have a catch phrase" In response to Reply # 37
or a slogan. *Looks at Billboard, sees "I Have a Dream" just went diamond, with "Viva la Revolución" and "Heil Hitler" close behind*
So obviously if people that were lauded as powerful leaders and or revolutionaries utilized catch phrases what makes the Roots exempt from needing a catchy hook?
UH HUH, UH HUH MUTHAFUKKAS, UH HUH YEAH, I SEE THAT, I SEE THAT!! ALL Y'ALL FAKE MUFUKKAS UP IN THE JOINT HUH? STEALING MY LIGHT HUH? WATCH ME DUKE, WATCH ME!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bumXSdsMYMI
47. "RE: what movement do you know that doesn't didn't have a catch phrase" In response to Reply # 45
my point exactly. but some people here seem to think that is selling out.
like you gotta be obscure, elite, and depressive to be a "real" artist.
i always thought art was about moving and affecting people.
i'm beating a dead horse here, but gnarls did a good job of being catchy as hell while having some depth. and they put on a hell of an energetic show live...platinum record and 5 grammy nominations without pandering to the mainstream.
49. "yea thats my point though" In response to Reply # 24
i love dont feel right but im a roots fan i dont count lol
and the 3 video was their decision...so it all goes back to it not bein jays fault. its not about jay though, its just i think its cool to blame him when everying on DJ isnt platinum.
36. "experimental? man ppl's ears and minds are full of s***" In response to Reply # 16
that's not directed at you Von...its just boggling to think that ppl view that track as experimental Hip-Hop _____________________________ patiently waiting for the Pumpkins to come back...
50. "no the whole album" In response to Reply # 36
i mean it aint a typical hip hop record at all! in no way is game theory a regular rap album. i think its dope that it came out like that on def jam. theres no obvious single or anything and i think that was on purpose...
17. "one question for the philly heads" In response to Reply # 0
since i dont live in philly and i havent been there ive never listened to the station.
she was talking about how she was disappointed the roots didnt get a bigger push. jay said it's all in the radio spins....so did they (the station) play the roots?? do they play the roots regularly? i mean with her words she sounds like she's riding for them.
so do they get love at that station? i mean how many people live in philly..im sure enough to give the roots decent numbers...but are they getting played on the radio there?
18. "people want jay to support and THEY dont support" In response to Reply # 17
they wanna listen to their game theory mp3s and just hope that the roots end up platinum this time because jay z likes them.
game theory is the shit. i bought it the day it came out from a chain, because chains keep track of soundscan numbers.
i did my fan part...now on my armchair a&r shit i still was looking for the single thats gonna get them these new fans. maybe "baby" but it wasnt a single!
folks forget kanye was paying for his own videos to succeed and artists on every label are doing that now.
19. "RE: people want jay to support and THEY dont support" In response to Reply # 18
>they wanna listen to their game theory mp3s and just hope >that the roots end up platinum this time because jay z likes >them. > >game theory is the shit. i bought it the day it came out from >a chain, because chains keep track of soundscan numbers. > >i did my fan part...now on my armchair a&r shit i still was >looking for the single thats gonna get them these new fans. >maybe "baby" but it wasnt a single! > >folks forget kanye was paying for his own videos to succeed >and artists on every label are doing that now.
i just wanted to say that i agree with you in both this and the post you have a little ways up. i did my part too, bought it from a chain the day it came out. people are definitely putting too much on the jay-z cosign.
22. "how come artists don't get credit for the amount of units..." In response to Reply # 18
a chain buys?
lets say best buy buyers/merchandisers decide to carry 100,000 units of their album....how come that specific artist isn't credited with the 100,000?
becuase doesn't best buy now own the 100,000 units they purchased from the artist? its best buy's responsibility to sell those units now at what ever price they decide - sale first, full price later, promo again later on.
is it more lucrative for an artist to make x amount off of actual units sold at retail or more lucrative to get paid the profit from selling their a fixed amount of units at cost to a chain? They're guaranteed their cost x 100,000 units.
If an artist decides to make a percantage from units pushed at retail and they underperform what the chain buys, then its a loss for the artist, right? Lets say best buy purchases 100,000 and only sells 50,000 - well you do the math.
i have no idea how the record industry works so if someone can drop some science on me, please do.
23. "RE: people want jay to support and THEY dont support" In response to Reply # 18
> >folks forget kanye was paying for his own videos to succeed >and artists on every label are doing that now.
that's the biggest thing ppl do not see!!! The Roots tour the world to make their money.
I'd like to see them do big numbers but if the music is wack then what was the point? Game Theory is possibly their best album to date next to Things Fall Apart. The fans SHOULD be happy but they are too worried about numbers...
56. "RE: one question for the philly heads" In response to Reply # 17
no they dont play the roots. Im West Philly born and raised, you can go days without hearing one roots song on any of phillys so called hip hop stations. She screamin at Jay um he should of asked how many roots songs did they play that morning or any morning. The roots home town be hatin on the roots. How they get as little radio play as they do is beyond me.
I was in soutwest philly a couple of years ago and saw Mike Jones posters all over the place. I bet money you could go down south and not see the same for the roots or even Jay own the Young Guns when they last album came out even though it wasnt good.
25. "lemme put it this way..." In response to Reply # 0
i'm a college DJ, Music and Program director and earlier this week i got a box from def jam with a couple thousand game theory posters (4 months after the album dropped?) and they practically give away game theory vinyl at the office (i think i have four copies now because my hands were full with other stuff).
i still dont understand why the roots dont just roll with an independent like koch. they would sell the same number of albums and actually get paid. jim jones is makin cake off his record and fat joe is about to do the same even if they come nowhere near plat.
p.s. listen to my radio show thursday nights at 10pm est at www.wicb.org, this weeks guest- Lupe Fiasco
29. "RE: lemme put it this way..." In response to Reply # 26
LOL.. jeezy just dissed Nas and said something to the effect of... "if he think hip hop is dead, he can come see me?" Something like that... he just sounds stupid as always.
28. "RE: lemme put it this way..." In response to Reply # 27
As shady as the record industry MAY be (I don't know for sure, I'm not in it), the fans are way more shadier (if that's a word). We all sit on the Net and bust down all these records but like Von P said, how many actually bought that cd??? Half the ppl on the Net shouldn't be allowed to criticize because you haven't paid for shit. Bloggers are just as bad (i.e. Byron Crawford) but they gotta eat so I'm not gonna knock their hustle. The biggest difference between now & 10 or 20 years ago is the fans. When we used to poli and argue who's in the top 5, record sales was never a criteria. Skills was always the important factor. But you can't debate Hip-Hop today without someone bringing up Soundscan. Motherf*cka why?
32. "people think that jigga is entirely to blame for everything with def jam" In response to Reply # 0
sorry no one, no great of a marketing team is going to come up with 40 great marketing plans for platinum when most mainstream rap acts can barely push gold.
like that other guy said, jigga and the rest of the top executives of def jam are legally forced to act on the benefit of shareholders. this is for all companies in the us. jay-z can not spend the whole marketing budget on the roots. i personally dont agree with this law (for other more important reasons that just supporting the roots), but changing it could bring a big blow to the us economy if we did.
also there are other people in charge of def jam than just jay z. he cant run the whole show by himself and record an album also. no one has been complaining about L.A. Reid.
but then again def jam has a powerhouse roster, and should be more of a powerhouse than what they currently are. but then rap has changed then the very new york appeal that most of the roster has
HighVoltage Member since Jan 04th 2004 16583 posts
Sat Dec-09-06 02:50 AM
33. "i agree, but thats not what my problem with him is" In response to Reply # 32
if he doesnt want to give The Roots a bigger budget, fine. its a business decision, which as a fan i dont agree with, but thats what it is. i suppose they shoulda smartened up and seen it comin before they signed with the label.
my problem with jigga is that he acts like he did all he could for them, or even meth or ghost, when he clearly didnt (by design of the allocations, granted).
but when he blames the lack of game theory's sales on a declining market as a whole, and not as a result of poor marketing is asinine and insulting to our intelligence.
I mean really, who does he think he's fooling hiding behind that excuse for the groups near the bottom of def jam's agenda?
34. "RE: i agree, but thats not what my problem with him is" In response to Reply # 33
Granted, it seems like Jay-Z wasn't on his j.o. as far as The Roots & Meth are concerned. You can leave Ghost out of the equation because he is about to drop a 2nd CD in about a 6 month time span. But, judging by The Roots established fan base aka OKP, they should have went at least Gold. Lupe Fiasco can be thrown in there too. His buzz was crazy. How about we lay blame where it is supposed to be...with us. It is way too easy to fault Jay for this. Judging by the word of mouth on the different websites, Food & Liquor and Game Theory are easily the albums of the year. So, how come they didn't sell like they should have?...If the same people that sell out The Roots shows and big them up all day on the Net bought their CDs, it would not be a discussion.
>But, judging by The Roots established fan >base aka OKP, they should have went at least Gold. Lupe Fiasco >can be thrown in there too. His buzz was crazy. How about we >lay blame where it is supposed to be...with us. It is way too >easy to fault Jay for this. Judging by the word of mouth on >the different websites, Food & Liquor and Game Theory are >easily the albums of the year. So, how come they didn't sell >like they should have?
^^^^^^^^ I thought Lupe would do crazy numbers. I was hyping his album up to anyone who remotely digged hip hop. Both Lupe & The Roots GT basically had halos over their respective albums and didn't do anything close to what they could have done WITH a Jay-Z co-sign (Jay executive produced Lupe's F&L and signed the Roots). Still both were great albums.
63. "Getting praised in the Lesson and it being reflected in album sales" In response to Reply # 62
two different things
I mean ask the people in the Lesson or GD if they're Roots fans. Like folks that actually went to more than one show that they didn't get free tickets for or such.
We're the minority
We are all dreamers...
"I can't change the folks around me... So I need to change the folks around me"
38. "oh jayz knows how to market himself" In response to Reply # 33
but marketing others is another story. rather its jay z or someone else at def jam, that promotion for GT was very "meh"
then again there was only one song that could stand out as a single, long time. doesnt mean that the rest aren't great, but they were are better suited to be album cuts.
52. "Jay-Z should have said "They are used to going double wood, so..."" In response to Reply # 0
"...they have nothing to complain about. Def Jam recouped their recording and promotional fees, so it's all good to me. If they want to make money, they can tour!". Jay-Z needs to start calling out these poor selling Def Jam artists and fire them!
66. "RE: Jay-Z should have said "They are used to going double wood, so..."" In response to Reply # 52
I have to agree and that is what jumped out at me the most about the interview when I listened. Jay can market himself, Kayne sold himself and the Roots are out there doing their own thing to sell themselves. To think because you get signed to Label X and you will be in a magical marketing bubble is crazy. I do not know and I am sure that very few people here know exactly what the Roots Crew worked out when they came to Def Jam but maybe as anyone who has been a fan for any amount of time more is in store as far as another video and a single maybe also the marketing budget may have been spent where they wanted it to be. I am sure that because Jay is a fan of The Roots and Lupe does not mean he will just let them walk out of the accounting office with backpacks full of cash although I am sure he would like to. The Roots tour like animals and bring great live music as well as interesting, original albums when they are dropped and for us as fan to expect that because now they are at Def Jam they are going to be rich is just not making sense. I did my part when the album came out and when my friends ask for a copy of the album rather than burning it or giving them a link to download it I buy one. I suggest anyone here does the same since the holiday season is right around the corner, wanna help Game Theory go platinum and it not involve putting down your buddy beldor_25 from Atlanta go to your local record store and buy the album already. I still have a stack sitting by my desk from release week to hand out, is it my favorite album not really but do I like it defiantly!!
59. "I think that it's interesting that EVERYONE missed Jay Z'" In response to Reply # 0
subtle point about SELF-promotion.
When Pooch mentioned to Jay Z that he always did a great job of marketing himself (and not anyone else), Jay Z responded "yes, that's right. *I* did a great job of marketing MYSELF..before and after I was picked up by a label."
The implication is that niggas need to do their own footwork, too and stop relying so heavily on the label to sell their records.
Cats need to stop slobbering all over Hov's in-seam and start pushing their own shit. Moreover, stop begging the radio to play your music. An artist CAN make his own music a big deal, but he has to put in the work and stop begging for record deal then complaining that the label isn't promoting their shit enough.
Why is ^that^ such a difficult concept for artists to understand?
Is it just me , or has anyone noticed how the industry is truly designed. Everyone out there, check this out. Jay-Z PROMOTE JAY-Z, BECAUSE HE HAS HIS OWN RECORD LABEL!! DOES LL HAVE A RECORD LABEL? IF HE DOES, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT!! DO THE ROOTS HAVE A RECORD LABEL?? NO, THEY DON'T!!! NIETHER DOES METHOD MAN, GHOSTFACE KILLAH, OR FREEWAY, OR PATTI LABELLE!!! PEOPLE LET THIS BE A LESSON TO YOU.. .. IF YOU WANT GOOD PROMOTION, TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR MUSIC, AND PROMOTE IT ON YOUR OWN LABEL!! ALL OF THE MOST SUCESSFUL ARTIST HAVE THEIR OWN RECORD LABEL. 50 has G-Unit. Ja Rule has Murder Inc. Puffy has Bad Boy. Ludacris has DTP... All the rappers that are mad at him are jealous, because they are too lazy to take control of they own music....so they need a scape goat for their musical failures.. TO EVERY RAPPER HATIN, STOP CRYING AND GET ON YOUR CEO GAME...!!
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TO EVERY RAPPER HATIN, STOP CRYING AND GET ON YOUR CEO GAME...!!