Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby Okayplayer News Discussion Okay Artist Archives topic #39059

Subject: "The Roots Need Rick Rubin" Previous topic | Next topic
jbeez00
Member since Dec 09th 2006
9 posts
Sat Dec-09-06 06:59 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"The Roots Need Rick Rubin"


          

It's clear that the Roots sound no longer has traction in today's market. The last two albums have been commercial disappointments - 2 strikes. And yet they continue to produce critically acclaimed music themselves, while the market has moved on. Whenever groups start pointing fingers at others but themselves for failures, historically that's always been the first step towards the exit. Not many bands can remain relevant after 15 years - if the Roots fail again, they'll be touring until the wheels fall off.

Don't get it twisted, I'm one of the 200K or so that thought Game Theory was worth my paper. It was a multi-layered, effects-drenched, melodically progressive look-ma-no-hands-flying-faders masterpiece, but Hov is not going to bury himself and Def Jam trying to force kids to appreciate the intricacies of False Media.

Sound familiar? The Roots need to bring somebody from the outside in to help them sharpen their songs without compromising their integrity. Jamming with strippers or compensating with studio wizardry and overproduction is not gonna cut it.

Hands up if you think "The Roots : Produced by Rick Rubin" sounds like the truth.





  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Roots don't need shit
Dec 10th 2006
1
word
Dec 10th 2006
2
RE: Roots don't need shit
Dec 12th 2006
100
RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin
Dec 10th 2006
3
OK
Dec 10th 2006
12
we considered rick too
Dec 10th 2006
4
RE: we considered rick too
Dec 10th 2006
5
how about jon brion? (n/m)
Dec 10th 2006
13
      RE: how about jon brion? (n/m)
Dec 10th 2006
14
           RE: how about jon brion? (n/m)
Dec 13th 2006
108
if relevance is winning...
Dec 10th 2006
6
between the three:
Dec 10th 2006
7
RE: between the three:
Dec 10th 2006
15
RE: between the three:
Dec 10th 2006
17
RE: between the three:
Dec 11th 2006
66
to compete? *SLAP BITCH* (c) Chappelle
Dec 10th 2006
22
did you say the next album is called "russian roulette"?
Dec 10th 2006
8
RE: did you say the next album is called "russian roulette"?
Dec 10th 2006
11
its called let them eat cake
Dec 10th 2006
27
      cool but also loved 'the long count'
Dec 11th 2006
48
seems like you have painted yourselves into a corner or something...
Dec 10th 2006
9
well give me suggestions
Dec 10th 2006
19
suggestions
Dec 10th 2006
23
hell yes (c) beck
Dec 10th 2006
28
RE: suggestions
Dec 12th 2006
92
i mean i dont think im fit to give u suggestions on your IMAGE...
Dec 10th 2006
29
thoughts
Dec 11th 2006
45
RE: thoughts
Dec 13th 2006
104
adding
Dec 13th 2006
112
what might work
Dec 11th 2006
53
RE: what might work
Dec 11th 2006
67
you already know what im gonna say
Dec 11th 2006
72
I AGREE.
Dec 12th 2006
85
good idea
Dec 12th 2006
87
i always wanted to hear the roots band do a funkier album
Dec 11th 2006
74
RE: well give me suggestions
Dec 12th 2006
101
RE: seems like you have painted yourselves into a corner or something...
Dec 13th 2006
117
RE: we considered rick too
Dec 10th 2006
10
I know who EXACTLY could do this....
Dec 11th 2006
32
theoretically perhaps
Dec 11th 2006
50
who the fuck does this clown think he is?
Dec 11th 2006
65
Interesting Thoughts
Dec 11th 2006
58
YES, i got skillz to say he quits and now this:
Dec 11th 2006
73
RE: we considered rick too
Dec 12th 2006
88
nah, fuck that
Dec 12th 2006
94
Honestly, Quest...
Dec 12th 2006
99
RE: we considered rick too
Dec 13th 2006
118
I hear Rick is a Prick (capital P)
Dec 10th 2006
16
nah, im a good guy
Dec 12th 2006
95
Rick Rubin shouldn't waste his time.
Dec 10th 2006
18
ahhh i see great ponderers at work eh?
Dec 10th 2006
20
      Make A Deep Funk Album...
Dec 11th 2006
38
      if they went deep funk, I'd want Sly moreso than the Meters
Dec 14th 2006
125
      RE: ahhh i see great ponderers at work eh?
Dec 14th 2006
123
Nah, I don't think they need Rick
Dec 10th 2006
21
I agree here.
Dec 10th 2006
25
the roots need chucho valdes to produce their next record
Dec 10th 2006
24
btw this could also open up touring possibilities in Mexico
Dec 12th 2006
82
      RE: btw this could also open up touring possibilities in Mexico
Dec 12th 2006
84
           seriously i think the whole latin jazz movement from cuba during
Dec 13th 2006
105
honestly, WHY dont you just go indie? do you REALLY need the major $?
Dec 10th 2006
26
yes i do need the money
Dec 11th 2006
41
      wow...
Dec 11th 2006
42
      i understand your expenses, freal, but im sayin ...
Dec 11th 2006
43
      simple
Dec 11th 2006
51
           um...300K X 5 = 1.5 mil divided by 6 = 250K each,
Dec 11th 2006
52
                RE: um...300K X 5 = 1.5 mil divided by 6 = 250K each,
Dec 11th 2006
54
                oh my bad
Dec 11th 2006
71
                For the Roots
Dec 12th 2006
91
                     RE: For the Roots
Dec 14th 2006
126
                hahaha, we the fuck did you get 5 dollars per cd from?
Dec 11th 2006
75
                     i meant a good indie deal, and youre right ? totally blanked
Dec 12th 2006
83
      RE: yes i do need the money
Dec 11th 2006
57
      of course
Dec 11th 2006
59
      RE: yes i do need the money
Dec 13th 2006
110
What about sittin in with some crazy people?
Dec 10th 2006
30
dangermouse is not a bad idea
Dec 11th 2006
76
maybe a..
Dec 10th 2006
31
RE: Rick Rubin is an ill produce
Dec 11th 2006
33
Open a Club
Dec 11th 2006
34
everything you said was decent until
Dec 11th 2006
35
it was a
Dec 11th 2006
36
sounds like a good plan !
Dec 11th 2006
55
The subscription idea
Dec 11th 2006
69
      also
Dec 11th 2006
70
cbgb couldnt even afford to pay their rent, how do you think it will
Dec 11th 2006
77
      CBGB could pay their rent!!!!!!
Dec 12th 2006
80
The Roots Need Fans that Actually Buy the Album....
Dec 11th 2006
37
Here's a thought-no christopher rios...
Dec 11th 2006
40
RE: The Roots Need Fans that Actually Buy the Album....
Dec 11th 2006
64
they just need to carry on what they were doing on GT
Dec 11th 2006
39
Steven Drozd would do wonders
Dec 11th 2006
44
actually...Rick Rubin is exactly what they don't need
Dec 11th 2006
46
dear child of the 90s
Dec 13th 2006
116
      i expected a bullshit response like this...lol
Dec 13th 2006
121
why not take your 2-3 favorite records from each album...
Dec 11th 2006
47
RE: why not take your 2-3 favorite records from each album...
Dec 12th 2006
89
*i was here* *this post is AWESOME*
Dec 11th 2006
49
THE BOTTOM LINE REMAINS
Dec 11th 2006
56
and also : spend more time OFFline ?uest
Dec 11th 2006
61
..see 'game theory'.
Dec 11th 2006
63
RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin
Dec 11th 2006
60
humor me
Dec 11th 2006
68
      RE: humor me
Dec 12th 2006
90
why not take some cues from the sneaker culture...
Dec 11th 2006
62
hahaha @ this idea
Dec 11th 2006
78
how about some Green Day Amercian Idiot...
Dec 12th 2006
79
don't get me wrong i love prince paul but
Dec 12th 2006
81
RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin
Dec 12th 2006
86
thats not what he was saying
Dec 12th 2006
93
The Roots' problem doesn't lie with their production
Dec 12th 2006
96
get back on some ''the tipping point'' shit.
Dec 12th 2006
97
i do think TTP is the favorite album at first glance of ppl
Dec 13th 2006
106
I don't think he'd do much for them
Dec 12th 2006
98
Explain to me what Rick Rubin could do
Dec 12th 2006
102
in short, introduce them to a new fanbase
Dec 13th 2006
107
spot on
Dec 14th 2006
124
if you don't have time to listen to all that music
Dec 13th 2006
113
RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin
Dec 13th 2006
103
RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin
Dec 13th 2006
109
RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin
Dec 13th 2006
111
RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin
Dec 13th 2006
114
The Roots Need Steve Stoute...
Dec 13th 2006
115
RE: The Roots Need Steve Stoute...
Dec 13th 2006
119
      some people have expertise in areas individuals lack...
Dec 13th 2006
120
SHUT THAT SHIT UP!!! HOW BOUT YOU BUY SOME MORE COPIES!!!
Dec 13th 2006
122
no album-->>BUZZ BUILDING SIDE-PROJECT TIME
Jan 03rd 2007
127

jmsowl
Member since Feb 20th 2006
74 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 12:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "Roots don't need shit"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I would love the roots to work with rick but does anyone else agree with me that the roots have pretty much made it in the music business. Why do we always make these posts about ho the roots need this and they should work with this person and if they only added this person or that person? The roots are the roots and they prove themselves album after album. Say they do have a huge hit and white girls from laguna beach buy there album and it goes platnum, will that make us happy. I want them to have a platnum album because they deserve it but do i just think we should all agree that they are one of the greatest pieces to hip hop and are a key element to keeping th hip hop movement alive.

I would def love to see them work with rick rubin tho so i appreciate the post i just dont agree with the statement "need" him.

peace

game theory - album of the year

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
jbeez00
Member since Dec 09th 2006
9 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 01:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
2. "word"
In response to Reply # 1


          

good point, but I'm saying a change is necessary because at the rate things are going, they are going to have a hard time existing outside of touring. They're warring with their label something raw. Before you know it, Riq will be acting and ?uest will be on other projects.

so yeah, i would like to see white girls blow them up platinum, so that they can continue to exist. Their contemporaries (bep, outkast) have gotten the recognition they deserve, but not the Roots? The bands that have lasted beyond 15 years did it cause they were able to change and gain new fans - people like me and you who appreciate they shit are not gonna keep them afloat alone. Mark my words - if they throw in a third brick, it's curtains closed.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Dupree90
Member since Jul 10th 2005
639 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 06:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
100. "RE: Roots don't need shit"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Well then how about this ....Cee-lo went and did St.Elsewhere with Dangermouse ....white bitches from Lugna beach went and bought the album .....and I don't think no no ....I know my dude Cee-lo didn't lose an ounce of artistic integrity . I think it would be cool if The Roots went with some one else co-producing , not necessarily Rick Rubin. But ...hhmm here's a "Crazy" idea ....how about Danger Mouse , or maybe Andre 3000 somebody that is kinda sorta in their scope . It won't hurt







  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

dosch
Member since Sep 22nd 2006
36 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 08:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The Roots need... the Roots. I don't know why everybody is complaining about their sales. 200k sounds like a nice number to me, and I guess that're only the US numbers. So what??? There are bands that sell less and still make end meet (and more than that).
I can't picture ?uestlove on yacht in Monaco like Diddy or Jigga, so, what do they need a platin record for? Numbers and relevance are two different shoes, and the roots will never loose their reputation as long as they do what they've done in the past 15 years- quality music.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
jbeez00
Member since Dec 09th 2006
9 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 05:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
12. "OK"
In response to Reply # 3


          

so why don't they just sign with Hiero Emporium or Koch then?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 09:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "we considered rick too"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but i dont think he could pull anything out of us musically magical.
if anything he'd probably RHCP us and turn us AC.
ABSOLutely NOTHING against post 91 Red Hot---i enjoy and love "scar tissue" and "californication" but all too often i hear die hard chili peppers fans (their okayplayers) bitching about how adult contemporary they are. even an idiot myself checks out freaky styley and says "wow, rubin turning them down a bit was the right move"--

but let's face it.

there is a double standard in the industry. and i RARELY seen a situation in which the carpet layers/guinea pigs get to the other side unscathed (usually the first to WALK on the laid out carpet makes it in hip hop--NOT the carpenter who made the blueprint)

how would okayplayers feel is we just "went regular"

mind you that was the tipping point album.

if people can separate the disdain for the "perception" of what our motives are

(i believe THAT is the fuel that sparked the perception of The Tipping Point being the "rotten apple of the 9" (as one player put it to me)--in other words the judgement/hate we received was based on the perception of us about to cash in and sell out. cause to this day i believe that if ANY OTHER artist be it Luda/50/etc did "Don't Say Nothin"--then it woulda made it through the system

and i heard it all "the chorus aint make no sense etc etc etc"

but the chorus is what kept that shit avant guard.

i mean yall remembered that shit the SECOND you heard it. we thought it was funny and clever and effective.

but again this proves "perception is reality" and it was crystal clear that our core fan base will be none too accepting of the group if we were to just dumb it down a lil (i dont even consider TTP a dumb down--but since it was "seen" that way thus it became it.

and clearly this is all that rubin will do:


make us acceptable to the masses.

TTP was the album that we worked overtime to make sure that the chorus were real chorus and that the songs had song structure (well....im still tryna figure out what the fuck money was saying in "Guns Are Drawn" lol)---

so it is a Black Eye Pead gamble.

you either GO ALL THE WAY--

or you stick with what you know

the days of middle grounding it are over. we had some nice attempts at radio for GT but that woulda just disrupted the flow and sound of the record....and knowing that "records" are on their last breath (i believe the system of itune subscription is the future in which you just go on a label website and get "subsciptions" to artists who may/not release 20-30 songs a year as opposed to an Album.

so i won't lie to you and tell you that this next record is pretty much a russian roulette.

we need major label funds to survive (that money is what is sustaining us to do some high level shit like pay for all those guests at RCMH so the ol "start your own label etc talk is stuff i heard before but the bottom line is i need a label to fund us at least 2-3 million just to make a project work (tfa was 2 million, im too ashamed to tell you what our GT budget was--but believe you me....our DYWM budget was TWICE as much and that is some sad shit--and the underfunding shit is how def jam can justify with keeping us on the label:

make us money?

we'll give you a hov budget.


but use a hov budget to make yall numbers?


no label.


this is some backwards slave master shit i know.....but i swear im in a position in which im walking across a tight rope hanging from the empire state building with grease on my shoes in the wind.

we just have to make baby steps and figure this out as we go along. there is NO templet for what we are doing. all the mfdoom/def jux/etc stuff is content with its 70,000 status.

we are more stuck in the tv on the radio/yeah yeah yeahs hole 200+ crew

to get them numbers means we need a video shown.


mtv2 USED to be our friend. but now that MTV is so done with regular videos those "regulars" got transfered to MY OLD HOME (mtv2)

so now we (the mtv2ers) got moved to MTVU---really a station that only gets seen (thank god) by college students (that is where you can see the "dont feel right" video 7-10 times a day btw) even my video blogs are damn near a substitute for our lack of presence on the air. but 9 time outta 10 if a youtuber goes to my blogs....then pretty much they know how to download my record without paying.


just bear with us. i dont see this much more different then us struggling to make it all the other 9 times we made records.

this is a prison/tsunami that can be escaped. and as an addict of prison break--if there is a will....there is a way.

this aint no time for us to be patting ourselves on the back for being the only relevant rap group allowed to survive this long on a major.


i say take baby steps.


image wise i think we are in a good place with the political angle.

we'll lighten up and throw some lyrical shits in there so riq can bust his nuts. this time we'll make sure the music is in a place that will enable riq to do more inflections with his voice (the reason naysayers didn't feel riq on GT--the sly stone/riot going on delivery was over the head/dry/and a hard reference to catch and "inflections" are what make them stick (a good example is snoop damn near singing "aint nothing but a g thing "baby"...to loc'd up g's going "crazy" def jam aint a label that "paid may"...lol you get it)

we will work on stronger songs

we will dabble in the experiments more

we will make sure the songs BANG!!!! too

really when i talk about outside producers working with us in interviews...

its really just for the press angle....

unless you are with us with us (as producer)....i dont think a "producer" will have the answer per se. basically its just leasing a name.

but since we on the subject tell us something:


wil i am
dre
rick rubin


you lesson heads write me what you think they would pull outta us.

and let me interject right now before yall get started


this is RAP music

dont be all naive and say "oh yall coulda did "gin and juice" and won.

image STILL rules in hip hop (let's not forget "gangster", "on trail for murder", "nwa legacy") had just as much if not MORE to do with snoops success as opposed to him having a golden voice and the right hook and mix.


you really need to figure out what endearing image a bunch of near 40s can pull off in this genre.


thoughts?

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
dosch
Member since Sep 22nd 2006
36 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 10:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
5. "RE: we considered rick too"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Rubin is definitely a good producer, but, as you already put it, its a name that draws attention and the RHCP thing is right, too.

When I listened to GT (I bought it right away), I kinda knew it wouldn't make big numbers, since it is so deep. It's not an album that can be listened to in the background. It's challenging its audience and that's why I love the album. Great art can never be achieved through compromises.

Actually, it's all about names and videos. When I heard "Don't Feel Right" i thought it'll be a huge success since all my friends liked it immediately. The problem is: I live in Germany and saw the video only ONCE and never heard it on the radio. If BEP dropped that song, you'd seen it 5 times a day on MTV.

Talking about BEP: Please do never ever work with Will.I.Am. As a fan, I felt happy that they finally got paid, but it came at a high price. Too much pop there.

Therefore, yes. Babysteps. The Roots have a fan base that will always have their back. Considering the minimal media attention in Germany, there were a lot of people celebrating your music in Berlin on Friday.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
rons1ne
Member since Nov 02nd 2004
1554 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 07:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "how about jon brion? (n/m)"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 07:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
14. "RE: how about jon brion? (n/m)"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

ehhh i got a plan but...
i dunno i feel some sort of way.
(sloppy seconds....especially since i had jon first)

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
waYaN
Member since Feb 23rd 2004
51 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 11:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
108. "RE: how about jon brion? (n/m)"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Fuck this sloppy seconds hangup, Kanye didn't do a quarter of what you could do in a studio with Jon Brion. Brion always creates at least one respectable 'single' out of anything he does, and the rest will just endear you further to the independant-record-store crowd. You wanna get on some Phish/Dave Matthews shit? Learn from them. Their attempts at reaching a mass audience failed miserably (Hoist and Everyday respectively), whereas everything they've done just being true to themselves got more and more people to their shows. Play a longer set with less solos, and that will bring more people to the shows. More people = bigger places = more tickets sold = more $$ in your pockets than you'd get from selling albums (you know Trey ain't hurtin' at the bank, and Phish has probably only sold as many albums total as y'all).

For that matter, the big turnaround for both bands came via Steve Lillywhite. Maybe you guys need to hole up in upstate New York somewhere and get your hippy on with Mr. U2. You know you'd love to hear what he'd do with Riq's voice.

So that's my vote, either get with Brion anyway (like you really care whose bed a producer that fine has been in), or make your Billy Breathes/Crash with Steve Lillywhite.

www.myspace.com/theactiongroup
www.myspace.com/dbasscollective
www.myspace.com/wayan

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
B Side
Member since Mar 12th 2003
1545 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 10:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "if relevance is winning..."
In response to Reply # 4


          

consider working with the guy produced half of your new favorite record

amy, robbie, even christina...the up and coming pop producer who is one of the best hip-hop DJs in the world...mark might be able to take some weight off the execution end of a project and let y'all cut loose a bit more

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Iltigo
Charter member
8609 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 01:06 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
7. "between the three:"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

rick would be the best seel to the press, but i soubt musically it would have that large of an impact.

you might want to try your other plan A from two years ago and work with john brion.

he pulled maturity out of kanye that i know he didnt have.

and it was all on the low.

in my opinion the worst thing you can do is have a big nae producer do the next record.

1: you are a control freak (more on this later)
2: you all make better music than those guys, it just doesn't sell
3: working with dre will never come off unless you are hov,

onto yopur control issues, you think you pessimism with turning over the reigns has something to do with you not wnating to let go of your baby. i mean, you've sadi before that you get beats fom people and rootify them up, but maybe, just maybe (and no diss to you) but maybe you shoudl fall back.

okay...i've noticed on records where you (meaning the production, sonic quality of the song) is more to the background, thought gets more shine. the main differecn between the live show and the record is that riq is the showpeace during the live show. on record you are. its almost like your battlin riq for more props on record. i mean you knwo riq is a monster, so you trun up you production notches to compete.

maybe im imagining things, but put riq with another producer and he blows people away....wth you, he's just another instrument in the band...

but hey i love anything you guys do, so i'll cop regardless...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 07:58 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "RE: between the three:"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          


>1: you are a control freak (more on this later)

just because i do all the press dont mean im a control freak.

it means that i have the most tolerance to sit for 7 hours a day and answer the same shit over and over again without having to threaten the life of the journalist asking the question.

quite contrary.

if i REALLY had control shit would be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY different.

naw---to the contrary im a team player to the bone

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 08:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "RE: between the three:"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          


>onto yopur control issues, you think you pessimism with
>turning over the reigns has something to do with you not
>wnating to let go of your baby. i mean, you've sadi before
>that you get beats fom people and rootify them up, but maybe,
>just maybe (and no diss to you) but maybe you shoudl fall
>back.

all i do is recreate the beats.

i mean the MAIN gripe yall been giving us is "it dont sound like a band"

i mean i fell back on the album yall like the least ---now THAT should tell you something.
now aint the time to point fingers but i guarantee you that any highlight of a roots album most kayplayers ever had i had something to do with. i made this place and i know how mofos think simply because i am one of you.

if i put my hand down i wouldn't have a group...i'd have slaves

but in a group situation you must work well with others.

and i see it as a positive thing. sometimes balance is needed. let's breakdown the record yall swore i controlled from start to finish:

@-very minimum input (gave my drum sounds to be sampled)
@@-mild input, spiced up the situation so as to at least attempt to "sound like us" as opposed to the current climate the song was in
@@@-had more to do with it in terms of the mix in which i was able to get "the roots" sound out
@@@@-did fair share of the work, co anchoring the situation, probably had the last say from the mixing standpoint
@@@@@-my baby


rock you-@
!!!!!!!!!!!-@@@@
sacrifice-@@
rolling with heat-@@
thought@work-@@@@1/2
the seed-@@@@
break you off-
i) video version in which d was involved-@@
ii) day of mastering noticing this shit sounds dry and needs a "SPIKE" redo album version-@@@@@
water-@@@@1/2
quills-@@
pussy galore-@
complexity-@@@@
something in the way of things-@@@@



>okay...i've noticed on records where you (meaning the
>production, sonic quality of the song) is more to the
>background, thought gets more shine. the main differecn
>between the live show and the record is that riq is the
>showpeace during the live show. on record you are. its
>almost like your battlin riq for more props on record. i mean
>you knwo riq is a monster, so you trun up you production
>notches to compete.

i turn up the production because i want THE most superior sound i can get.

i dont overdrum ever (see the 1,234,234,543,345,234 why dont quest do fills posts)
i mean "water" was an art piece to musically show what its like in the head of malik....but despite the hell part i think riq's letter is THE most profound part of the song.

i mean i think the "only" time i ever stole the show was the drum and bass part of "you got me"--besides that i dunno.....would you rather me fall back on doing the string part on "love of my life"?---last i checked that almost brought tears to a few eyes....


>maybe im imagining things, but put riq with another producer
>and he blows people away....wth you, he's just another
>instrument in the band...



the average person dosn't see riq as engaging because...well...he aint.

he still a craftsman...but...well--again i think people are judging based on the offstage shit. im the dude on okayplayer posting at 4am when probably someone is down the hall getting head from two fillipino chicks--no one is setting a standard like this ---so i look like the leader.

but you have to see (and i have to say even in your case---and none of this is coming hard....just having a convo)---


people cant blur the lines between judging us on the actual talent we display and the standard for which they set their templets and thresholds.

i outdo riq because im more accessible than him.





>

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Iltigo
Charter member
8609 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 06:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
66. "RE: between the three:"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          



>i mean the MAIN gripe yall been giving us is "it dont sound
>like a band"
>
>i mean i fell back on the album yall like the least ---now
>THAT should tell you something.
>now aint the time to point fingers but i guarantee you that
>any highlight of a roots album most kayplayers ever had i had
>something to do with. i made this place and i know how mofos
>think simply because i am one of you.

i know, your making my point...you'll see

>
>if i put my hand down i wouldn't have a group...i'd have
>slaves
>
>but in a group situation you must work well with others.
>
>and i see it as a positive thing. sometimes balance is needed.
>let's breakdown the record yall swore i controlled from start
>to finish:
>
>@-very minimum input (gave my drum sounds to be sampled)
>@@-mild input, spiced up the situation so as to at least
>attempt to "sound like us" as opposed to the current climate
>the song was in
>@@@-had more to do with it in terms of the mix in which i was
>able to get "the roots" sound out
>@@@@-did fair share of the work, co anchoring the situation,
>probably had the last say from the mixing standpoint
>@@@@@-my baby
>
>
>rock you-@
>!!!!!!!!!!!-@@@@
>sacrifice-@@
>rolling with heat-@@
>thought@work-@@@@1/2
>the seed-@@@@
>break you off-
>i) video version in which d was involved-@@
>ii) day of mastering noticing this shit sounds dry and needs a
>"SPIKE" redo album version-@@@@@
>water-@@@@1/2
>quills-@@
>pussy galore-@
>complexity-@@@@
>something in the way of things-@@@@

of the 15 songs you listed. my personal favorite riq moments from that album (i was the 1 that got and enjoyed it first go 'round) are 1(shoulda been a single dammit), 4, 5(shoulda been a single dammit), 14, 15 and 16. thats 2 out of my favorite 6 that had little quest input. i had no idea of your involvement...interesting

i can spit rock you and water from memory becasue i be checking for the lyrics not checking for the beat (c) digga digga. but what is water known for...

im not saying your involvment is a bd thing. you make great music. its just that your music tends to outshine riq.
>
>
>

>
>i turn up the production because i want THE most superior
>sound i can get.
>
>i dont overdrum ever (see the 1,234,234,543,345,234 why dont
>quest do fills posts)
>i mean "water" was an art piece to musically show what its
>like in the head of malik....but despite the hell part i think
>riq's letter is THE most profound part of the song.
>
>i mean i think the "only" time i ever stole the show was the
>drum and bass part of "you got me"--besides that i
>dunno.....would you rather me fall back on doing the string
>part on "love of my life"?---last i checked that almost
>brought tears to a few eyes....

love of my life was all you? yeah i could see that and yeah it almost brought me to tears...im not ashamed to admit it.

you can't see it, but it happens. double trouble, and shit most of game theory especially that suite from in the music - living in a world, its all you. and its not a bad thing, it just outshines riq. riq was almost a trafic cop to you musical decisions.

an example of a producer oudoing an emcee: show me what you got. el presidente got out ryhmed by his instrumental (to paraphrase phonte). just didnt mean it, it just happened. he brought his A game and his A game just so happened to be better than His Agame that day.

but back on point.

>
>>maybe im imagining things, but put riq with another producer
>>and he blows people away....wth you, he's just another
>>instrument in the band...
>
>
>
>the average person dosn't see riq as engaging
>because...well...he aint.

true, but only on record. he has moments of brilliance on record compared to constant brilliance on stage. (granted his moments are superior to his peers).

>he still a craftsman...but...well--again i think people are
>judging based on the offstage shit. im the dude on okayplayer
>posting at 4am when probably someone is down the hall getting
>head from two fillipino chicks--no one is setting a standard
>like this ---so i look like the leader.

you group dynamic, although interesting to some doesn't change the music.

>but you have to see (and i have to say even in your case---and
>none of this is coming hard....just having a convo)---
>
>
>people cant blur the lines between judging us on the actual
>talent we display and the standard for which they set their
>templets and thresholds.


>i outdo riq because im more accessible than him.


your outdoing of riq has nothing to do with off stage antics . or even with as with engagability. it has everything to do with the work (for me at least). i dont stop for autographs after shows or stare during your dj sets (as long as the jams keep coming, i'm happy to groove with my folks). i'm a fan but not a stalker. its all on record and on stage. on stage riq is like no other and honestly that is where i can see the band being the background and riq taking charge. even if you are pulling the strings, his master of ceremony skills are in full view and he is mos def in charge. but on record...he blends in.

perfect examples: web and quills

the web on ttp is a great exercise in lyrical dexterity. but web live or from giles' show...a completely different animal.
the same goes for quills live. on giles riq is loose dynamic, but on record, i appreciate it differently. its hard to explain.

but look it might be hard for you to see yourself as outdoing your boy when you know how great he is. you never mean to do it. water was an art piece and a truely beautiful song. but come on man...the second half free-jazz section. the carter/nightmare portion of the record was way oever the top, and the reason the song gets mentioned. as heart felt and open as riq's open letter to malik was...what got more pub in every siongle review and interview...the length of the song and the chaotic ending. you..again.

at the end of the day your gonna do what you do, becasue its your record and you want to be rememebred and such. im just telling you how i see as a long time supporter and fan. you said once that your formula was going to be simple. out bang everybody and out spit everybody. yeah, you can outbang anybody, and riq can outspt anybody...just not at the same time.

________________________________________
return to your home citizens

madagascar titties- (c) phontiggalo the rap jiggalo

I would never, ever hit a woman....but i'll beat a bitch (c) wifey

http://www.myspace.com/iltigo

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
PungeePyPy
Member since Jul 09th 2006
9386 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 09:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "to compete? *SLAP BITCH* (c) Chappelle"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

come on now, thats not competing.

neil peart competes, the roots just play.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
biscuit
Charter member
8682 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 01:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
8. "did you say the next album is called "russian roulette"?"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

*rumor starts*

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

*Effasig*

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ReZilYaVic
Member since Apr 16th 2005
464 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 05:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "RE: did you say the next album is called "russian roulette"?"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

Nah man! he meant that releasing the new album will be a russian roulette! Seen the current trends/problems in the whole music industry!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Von Pea
Member since Jul 07th 2002
23521 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 10:33 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
27. "its called let them eat cake"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

thats what he said the other day


lets be friends.
http://www.myspace.com/vonpea

Spec Boogie "BrassKnuckleRapHustle" out now!

Che Grand "Everythings Good Ugly" coming 2007

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
MicheleQJ
Charter member
5380 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 01:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
48. "cool but also loved 'the long count'"
In response to Reply # 27


          

i think that was posted in an older news update once

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
kelving948
Charter member
posts
Sun Dec-10-06 02:29 PM

9. "seems like you have painted yourselves into a corner or something..."
In response to Reply # 4


          

you sound like u have no options or something...
if image is everything, take people like paul mccartney, eric clapton or bob dylan whos image is their amazing musicians/songwriters...
they get by on THAT as an image.
or amazing performers...

personally if i can interject, i think the problem with your last album & phrenology is theyre really "white"...

the first 3 were black oriented (and the majority of people here show that)

but phrenology - game theory havent been..

so maybe if we're talking about image that is hurting you and reducint you to college radio/only listen to obscure bohoemian record hipster crowd...

i dont really know, i dotn follow your progress to hard. im sure u know moret han me who your fanbase is..
thats just how i percieve it.

i dont think rick rubin is a bad idea, but in the grand scheme of things it'll probably put u more down the line of that college radio scene.. so if u dont mind that, then id say go for it...

i know the direction EYE would take the next roots record...
or i at least have a couple ideas.
but at the end of the day its your band and its seemingly your ideas.. so it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks..
so i guess its back to square 1 - the topic line of this post..

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 08:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "well give me suggestions"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

this is what okayplayer is for.

i DO listen still.


btw--

successful black images in all of music


The Coon-wild acting, flamboyant dressing, on hyper 10 red bull gallon drinking. clown "the fool", the tap dancer, shufflin shuckin jivin. ignant. buffoon "from the skreets" not eloquent or articulate. Considered Subhuman, sometimes a freak of nature. a colorful person, a SUPERHUMAN! a well accessorized person

The Mandingo- Sex Sex Sex Sex clothes off now! lick you fuck you lick me fuck me gimme some head pour water on my body im too sexy for this job/slut whore---anybody that "can get it" falls under this. considered fuckable. considered FINE AS SHIT. considered sexy

The Line Blurer-Ambiguos Sex, Ambiguous Politics, Wont Rock The Boat, Mom and Dad Love em, Not a Threat, Not a "real" Man, Easy To Get ALong With. No opinion Sometime androgynous. Mammy figures of comfort (most overweight black female hollywood can come under this one), diluted, over compensatory in education or pedigree. the CREDIT to their race. an overachiever

The Rollercoaster- a Bully. someone with all BARK no Bite. Loud Mouth. Tough Guy. Gangster, Thug, a Fred KRuger if you will (someone you pay money to SCARE THE SHIT OUTTA YOU, OVERexxxxxagerated!!, LOOOOOOOOOOOUD!!!!!--person with empty power (real gangster shit is bush administartion---not a "coke dealer"---but "coke" is cute now) a Thrill giver: someone to provide a rollercoaster like death defying rush that you know will always just be a simulation and not the real thing.


there is no person of color who has ANY success without at least these elements.

none.

beyonce
urkel
george jefferson
"carlton" from fresh prince
oprah
busta


NO ONE.

problem is: is that these are limiting categories because they will forever make a person 2 dimensional "at best"---if you are judged SOLELY on these merits above and for NOTHING else? you are not considered what they call "normal"---or as i say


"human"

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Troubled Spirits
Member since Nov 05th 2003
1934 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 09:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
23. "suggestions"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

Do the New Orleans album you wanted Game Theory to be originally. Now that you guys got Brass Heaven as extended fam, go all out.

Or, my personal choice. Do the Latin album. Go to Cuba. Go to the streets, and get the gritiest sound possible. Funky horns, timbales, etc.

Shit, mix New Orleans jazz, Afro-Cuban rhythms, and hip-hop.

That would be some next level shit.

The Roots fanbase is built in, you won't lose many of us regardless of what you do. But you also won't get the minstrel-rap crowd either. So just do you. Better to keep your integrity and sell 200k then sell your soul and sell 500k, because we all know even Chingy and Akon ain't selling THAT much, considering how many spins they're getting.

____________________________________

http://adrianruhi.wordpress.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
shockzilla
Charter member
37796 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 10:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "hell yes (c) beck"
In response to Reply # 23


          

>Do the New Orleans album you wanted Game Theory to be
>originally. Now that you guys got Brass Heaven as extended
>fam, go all out.
>
>Or, my personal choice. Do the Latin album. Go to Cuba. Go to
>the streets, and get the gritiest sound possible. Funky horns,
>timbales, etc.
>
>Shit, mix New Orleans jazz, Afro-Cuban rhythms, and hip-hop.

this is potentially amazing

then, i also like the 'rockier' stuff, like 'the seed' & 'long time'-
i'd like to hear the album the roots could produce just locked up in a garage for a weekend..

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
The1AndOnlyDJCT
Member since Mar 11th 2006
410 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 02:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
92. "RE: suggestions"
In response to Reply # 23


          

>Do the New Orleans album you wanted Game Theory to be
>originally. Now that you guys got Brass Heaven as extended
>fam, go all out.
>
>Or, my personal choice. Do the Latin album. Go to Cuba. Go to
>the streets, and get the gritiest sound possible. Funky horns,
>timbales, etc.
>
>Shit, mix New Orleans jazz, Afro-Cuban rhythms, and hip-hop.
>
>That would be some next level shit.
>
>The Roots fanbase is built in, you won't lose many of us
>regardless of what you do. But you also won't get the
>minstrel-rap crowd either. So just do you. Better to keep your
>integrity and sell 200k then sell your soul and sell 500k,
>because we all know even Chingy and Akon ain't selling THAT
>much, considering how many spins they're getting.

Yesssssssssssssss!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
kelving948
Charter member
posts
Sun Dec-10-06 11:06 PM

29. "i mean i dont think im fit to give u suggestions on your IMAGE..."
In response to Reply # 19


          

but ill inbox u some ideas for some other things.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
MicheleQJ
Charter member
5380 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 12:23 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
45. "thoughts"
In response to Reply # 19


          

I have to say of any of the 'themed' approaches thrown out here, I'd only really want to see the afro-cuban inspired one. Posssibly the New Orleans flavored one. While I dig many of scorpion's posts, I don't agree with the problem being a lack of a "band sound" on the LPs. I don't think that is the direction. I was listening to the J Period mix tape recently and really feeling the mix in production and hearing some favorites in a different context. On top of that, I like the results when ?uest flexes his production/arranging muscles.

For the record, no problem with the "Don't Say Nothin" hook. The hook was dope. And a great idea. Folks sing along with it all the time. (Don't love the beat so much but that's another story....lovin it on the J Period mix tape). I rank TTP seemingly low in my list below but I'm hesitant about how that looks. I liked TTP A LOT. Just don't know if I'd want to place it above any of those others.

I write this realizing its from my own personal bias and am not attempting to speak for all Roots fans. Your albums have captured a very wide demographic.

Sort of referencing a post above, I feel like the "first three" (assuming he was referring to DYWM, IH, TFA) though varied in sound feel like a unit or era to me while the last 3 (PHREN, TTP, GT), again though varied, feel like a unit to me.

Before I go on, lemme clarify my bias a little more and help you place my comments by attempting to rank the albums by my own preference (I like them all). Also to help place the comments, I'm a Philly cat and came into the door at DYWM.

1) TFA
2) IH
3) GT
4) DYWM
5) TTP
6) Organix
7) Phren

I know I'm missing RCA and the live album here. And this isn't exact....I'd love to break every song down and star them up but second week on a new job. I've backed away several times from posting an album ranking in similar posts because I don't want to slight so much great work by ranking some down. This is just a survey of how I'm perceiving the albums in my head today, with no headphones on or music playing.

The reason I place Phren at the bottom of my list is just that it feels too rock to me. This is only a vague feeling. I'll go back and listen and be like yo I'm really feelin this or that, why don't I pull this album out more? But that impression remains with me. I know Phren brought a lot of fans in ther door. From being around the boards, I feel that quite often those fans seem to want something different than the fans who came in earlier. There are songs I love on there but as a whole I don't dig the heavy use of (particularly rock sounding) guitar. Apologies to Kirk and the other others who have played with yall. And I agree Kirk is a bad cat and adds to the live show - I was blown away at RCMH - but again my personal bias, I don't want to hear too much of him on a Roots album. This same statement makes me waver on my placement of GT also. I realize that's a limiting statement but again, personal bias, I can dig bluesy guitar, jazzy guitar....rockish guitar...ehhhh

Note: I do own both albums but I haven't checked the notes so if its not Kirk again forgive me (I'd assume its more Martin Luther, and or Cody, on Phren). My point isnt directly related to the playing anyway, just the style of that element incorportated into the music.

I have to keep GT at #3 though for the political statements and the amazing production values.

There's the talk above about image and what societal box an artist needs to fit into. I wrote this once on the boards and can't help there's some truth to it. I think you were more marketable and had momentum building towards your own niche with the ?uest fro and Thought with the locks, rocking tams. I mean to say its beyond the hair but an articulate description is not coming right now. Its a thin line of course to be too closely associated with a visual style but I feel the Roots did have a visual image. And how much of that similar image helped propel Erykah when she came out? You know from the boards and people complaining about the Roots doing this, Thought in a movie with a becky?!, the Roots in a commercial?! etc etc....that there was an image definitely being built that went beyond the actual lyrical content. I feel you guys were always political, but not as explicitly as now. I think in the past visual style boosted that profile. The Roots current visual style is cool but much more non-descript (as far as those prepackaged societal roles go). Consequently, I feel that contributes to the perception of Thought as non-descript (adding in that I agree he needs more space for inflection, his past trademark of taking/forcing slant rhymes to the next level, etc, etc)

Thought has persona and charisma. You're right that its not being magnified to that grand public scale due to not fitting into a role that society's perceptions have made easily identifiable. But I think you were fitting into a slot that you didnt list. The exotic/the wise/street but peaceful/girtty political messenger. Thought's persona was magnified/characterized/caricatured in Brooklyn Babylon. Grammy won, movie roles on the horizon, articles talking about how much charisma he had.

I'm glad you're talking about angling for the political spot because regardless of if it pays off or not, we need it. And we need the brick laying too, my personal biases be forgotten. When its all said and done, I hope you keep taking your music where you all want it to go. And I'll still be buying.



  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
steg1
Charter member
3335 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 12:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
104. "RE: thoughts"
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

THis is a great post.

Thanx for writing that.

www.jambase.com ~~~Go See Live Music~~~
www.upfulLIFE.com / www.facebook.com/UPFULLife

"...shocked the small axe could knocka giant lopsided" (c)Pretty Flaco

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
MicheleQJ
Charter member
5380 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 02:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
112. "adding"
In response to Reply # 45


          

*begin quote*
problem is: is that these are limiting categories because they will forever make a person 2 dimensional "at best"---if you are judged SOLELY on these merits above and for NOTHING else? you are not considered what they call "normal"---or as i say


"human"
*end quote*

Adding this on because my previous post reads as if its saying finding a category is necessary. I guess, using ?uest words, I do think it is necessary to be somewhat of a two-dimensional character as a music entertainer. I'm speaking of image and not content. But as far as being solely judged on image...i dont have an answer. Surely, this is disheartening given the ways Black artists and people have been flattened and dehumanized. I think to some degree, all entertainers are flattened to fit a type. This is a scary proposition to myself as someone who tries to do a little music....especially when one worries that the slot they'll occupy in the amorphous public mind is not the slot one wants to project themselves as. Back to the Roots, while I agree the type-slots at hand are as ?uest points out, I think they did have a semi-marketable image at one point that was its own lane and not one of the ones listed. A keys player pointed out to me, and I think I'd heard the saying before, that in the music business, in terms of image, what sells is when people want to "be" you or "do" you. On top of that, I think people are so used to categorizing everything, and there is so much music, art, and entertainment out there, that to stick in people's minds they maybe do have to be able to simplify, tag, and identify your image to a degree. Boxes suck and are perilous and can definitely work negatively on a variety of levels but I think they also help with form heavy impressions and help people have an emotional response as to whether they identify with it or not.

maybe the two dimensional image helps open the door for exploration of art and message and fills it out from flat to at least a pop-up book. i think using an image, trying to grow from it, show depth behind it, to abandoning it, are all on very thin lines and subject to a lot of factors. So, overall I'm just rambling done for now

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 04:32 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
53. "what might work"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

these labels exist for all artists ... once you have your sound/niche/style it's impossible to change, leave that niche or evolve drastically in a short timespan.

madonna's probably the only example, but her whole image and steez has always been chameleon/vampire so for her fans it makes sense to see her change (sometimes 180°) from one album to the next.

but madonna is hollywood, and with the exception of Prince and U2 only few of the artists from her era still exist or are still as relevant or have the same impact (wish I could include Michael but nope).

anyway, if you would be insane enough to consider my suggestions :

- record somewhere else, with the whole band. rent a house with all necessities (plenty of rooms, bathrooms, pool, entertainment system, ...) for at least a month, preferrably with a studio included, OR nearby a good studio, in a sunny location : even better would be outside of the US and far away from any major city, to make sure noone comes to interfere in your sessions and you can just focus on the music.

I did this with a singer-songwriter whose record I produced a few years ago, we went to the south of Spain for 3 weeks, after laying down demos for 2 weeks. There was literally nothing you could do there except swim, sleep, eat or make music. For some group members this may be hard, so if you're recording for longer periods you might consider flying relatives over mid-stay.

the advantage is that you're ONLY focusing on your music, since that's the only option there. and being in a sunny environment will definitely affect the music too. if you think I'm getting new-agey, fear not : I didn't believe the singer of the group when he came up with the idea and tried to convince me by mentioning the impact of the weather, but it actually does.

you also get a lot of work done without feeling stressed ... all you gotta do is have someone who's taking charge and making sure there's some sort of schedule beforehand so that you don't end up swimming sleeping and eating your entire stay ...

- organise a rehearsal or preproduction period of at least the same length, but preferrably longer, a few weeks before leaving for the studio. Use this period to try out external production (at least if that's what you want to do). Invite people like Salaam Remi (for his work on the latest Amy), Jamie Lidell (forget the name of his producer), Roni Size, go to Berlin for a few weeks and do some workshops/masterclasses there .... BEFORE YOU THINK I'M SUGGESTING YOU TO GO FOR A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SOUND : I'm mentioning these names cos they might bring something to the Roots that you already had but forgot, or something you wouldn't necessarily think about. Not so that your next record would sound like electronica meets broken beat meets Berlin weed

the whole idea is to be ready or know what you want to do with the album before leaving. if you're using an outside producer, he should be present during the preproduction period and not just joing when you start tracking.

- if you don't wanna write all the songs yourself, check for songwriters/production via your publisher/okayplayer/myspace ... especially with you being so internetminded it makes sense to use the potential of people being online. I don't know how you contact outside producers at the moment, if this happens strictly on a personal basis, or through business contacts, ... I guess both. But you know how Dilla was timid and humble as hell, if it wasn't for Amp Tip and all of us might never have heard of him ... so maybe there's another Dilla somewhere who's not actively seeking work but has it in him/her and gets overlooked by everyone cos people only look where they always look.

- for engineering you don't need anyone else : you're already working with the best people in the biz, maybe a producer who's overseeing the whole album is a good idea, but it will depend on what you want, how much room you want to give that producer and how good he will gel with the Roots as a band (I mean the social skills). Also, at least knowing a bit about The Roots (both albums as live) is pretty essential for anyone working with y'all. Unless you're going for a "produced by" stamp and want to adapt your sound and give him carte blanche.

- very personal opinion : the Roots have a habit of changing their sound/steez every album. For the first 4 albums this has made sense to me as a fan, but after Things Fall Apart I kinda didn't see the logic in the following albums. I'll explain : before that, I could understand how the sound changed from album to album, somehow it made sense and felt natural. From Phren on, the changes between albums started feeling forced and unnatural. Why that is I have no idea, and it's strictly my own opinion, but I would try to repair the sense of continuity (for lack of better word) between albums. How to do it I don't know, but I think that recording in 1 place in a concentrated amount of time and with someone coordinating/overseeing is a good start.

- there's plenty more I could say, but I don't have the time right now to type it all. Need some time to let it digest too, since I'm learning as I make moves myself (from producing to soundtracks, coaching artists and engineering)





krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
rdhull
Charter member
31938 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 07:42 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
67. "RE: what might work"
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

>- record somewhere else, with the whole band. rent a house
>with all necessities (plenty of rooms, bathrooms, pool,
>entertainment system, ...) for at least a month, preferrably
>with a studio included, OR nearby a good studio, in a sunny
>location : even better would be outside of the US and far away
>from any major city, to make sure noone comes to interfere in
>your sessions and you can just focus on the music.
>


Yeah. Do it like an "Exile On Mainstreet."

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
HighVoltage
Member since Jan 04th 2004
16583 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 10:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
72. "you already know what im gonna say"
In response to Reply # 19
Mon Dec-11-06 10:32 PM by HighVoltage

  

          

roots come alive 2.

its due.

make it happen.

get some cake for that and then worry about the next venture.

wouldn't you make a lot of profit from a live album since you dont have to worry about covering major expenses for studio/equipment (except for the mixing/mastering) and the work itself is already recorded? Seems like a small budget with a good-size return... school me if im wrong.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.itsallthewaylive.net

www.twitter.com/allthewaylive

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
Detroit Defender
Member since Nov 21st 2005
30000 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 11:08 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
85. "I AGREE."
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

RESTORE THE ROAR.

http://cristianrios.com/assets/detroit/detroit.html

ANYTHING GOES mixtape:
http://tinyurl.com/6n5tjk
http://tinyurl.com/4mjk5u


PPOLS

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
58impala
Member since Nov 08th 2004
16633 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 01:12 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "good idea"
In response to Reply # 72


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
58impala
Member since Nov 08th 2004
16633 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 11:35 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
74. "i always wanted to hear the roots band do a funkier album"
In response to Reply # 19
Mon Dec-11-06 11:36 PM by 58impala

  

          

now you got a horn section with you on tour, i say do it. or alteast test pilot and jam with it, andalkdfjlaksdflinkittoopleaselkasdjlfjkasldkfhinthint

only thing that concerns me that riq may not pull that off even with inflections (what i was suggesting in my other reply), but something more built for andre 3000

i mean if someone is going to bring the band to the hip hop table, they gotta do it with some funk

as far as a producer who can do this, i dont know who, captain obvious will say geogre clinton and that may not be a bad idea musically after seeing the ability/musicianship of the band members on stage, don't know if that will sell in todays market. but george clinton may pull something out of riq to learn to his voice.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Dupree90
Member since Jul 10th 2005
639 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 07:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
101. "RE: well give me suggestions"
In response to Reply # 19


          

Is Quest still taking suggestiona ....I know I was kinda slow on the draw ... I work all day .
I say again How About Danger Mouse ... Reason being that gorillaz album was blazing . and so was St.Elsewhere

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
miyagi
Member since Dec 13th 2006
1 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 05:23 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
117. "RE: seems like you have painted yourselves into a corner or something..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

"personally if i can interject, i think the problem with your last album & phrenology is theyre really "white"..."

What does this mean? This is a really interesting idea. Does music really have a "color?" Why are you limiting yourself, when society (and the government) is perfectly happy to do the job for you?

Speak on it players if it hasn't been spoken.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
jbeez00
Member since Dec 09th 2006
9 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 04:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
10. "RE: we considered rick too"
In response to Reply # 4


          

> you really need to figure out what endearing image a bunch of near 40s can pull off in this genre

Yall are not what hip hop is today. Piss on it baby, move on.

> if anything he'd probably RHCP us and turn us AC.
ABSOLutely NOTHING against post 91 Red Hot---i enjoy and love "scar tissue" and "californication" but all too often i hear die hard chili peppers fans (their okayplayers) bitching about how adult contemporary they are. even an idiot myself checks out freaky styley and says "wow, rubin turning them down a bit was the right move"--

This was my point - you're trying to satisfy "us". Who are we? Forget satisfying OKP, real music heads will accept the change for what you are - the Beatles of hip hop. RHCP have evolved, but we seem to agree it's still dope. Yall have reached Beatles longevity, you can stop now and be legends. To take it longer than that you're gonna have to get your Herbie Hancock on. I would be very surprised if Bowie or Miles Davis said they were ever worried about losing their "okayplayers".

As far as adult contemporary goes, no offence but you're pretty close. You guys drop joints during your live shows that bring me back - and I'm a grown ass man. Why not accept it for what it is? The Seed 2.0 and the live version incarnation are a damn good look for yall, and was mildly successful, no? Dont Say Nuthin' woulda been a good look for Luda, because him and that track are built for today's hip hop, not yall.

As far as image and hip hop, agreed it's necessary. After 15 years, there is nothing the Roots can do imagewise to satisfy today's hip hop fickle fans without looking a fool. Young Jeezy fans ain't trying to hear 10 minute long guitar solos. So switch the fanbase up.

As far as choosing a producer, that's another conversation. But definitely Rick Rubin is the best fit of the list you provided. Damn, I sound like I'm trying to convince my man he needs help, I don't want to come off like that - nuff respect to what you've accomplished. I got your back whatever it is you guys end up doing, but fuck trying to fit in with the kids though. Go ahead switch the style up, and if they hate then...ahhh man lol

"Unlock real hip hop, rock holds the key"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
scorpion
Charter member
29592 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 12:34 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "I know who EXACTLY could do this...."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

My Campaign: Let Me Produce The Next Roots Album

As a longtime Roots fan, I’ve felt the pain of seeing one of the most talented and worthy groups of our era suffer the indignities of not being able to penetrate the commercial music market.

I’ve watched the misfires and near misses with a heavy heart knowing that each album that fails to connect to the record buying public puts the group closer to not having a record deal…

So that begs the question; what do The Roots need to set things off? How can they make their names known to the record buying public at large and not just industry insiders, underground heads, and finicky hipsters?

The answer is to make a brutally classic album.

That answer leads to more questions…..

What could The Roots do that they haven’t done already? How can they do it without going over-budget?

The answer is to translate the magic of The Roots stage show to the studio. Oh, we’ve seen this before: The kick-ass live act whose albums never live up to the shows. Could The Roots be the Grateful Dead of Hip-Hop?

Can The Roots make an accessible but artistically satisfying record?

Sure, they can.

Can The Roots bring their live magic to tape?

Sure, they can.

They just need a catalyst.

Someone who isn’t intimidated by their stature.

Someone whose musical tastes and knowledge run the gamut of popular music, but yet someone who knows and loves Hip-Hop.

Someone who know the nuts and bolts of TRUE record production.

Someone who is aware of the climate of the music industry and the listening public. Someone with a discerning ear.

Someone who is knowledgeable about bands, instruments, gear, and musicians, not just MPC’s, Pro Tools and old records.

Someone who knows the way this evil empire called the entertainment business works, both for good and for ill.

That someone is me(or AFKAP…LOL)

Yes, me.

You all know me as Scorpion on and off the boards. Some of you know that I use to front a hip-hop group. I produced hip-hop records for myself and others. You may also know that I play a few instruments and that I have written and produced my own forthcoming funk/soul project. Some of you have heard some of that material.

You may disagree with my views, but you also know that I am passionate about the art of music.

And love of the art is what moves me to put forth this extremely bold yet feasible offer.

I would lie to place myself in the running to produce the next Roots album.

First off, how does Ahmir know I’m not a crackpot? Well, I met Ahmir briefly once in 2004 after a show at Berkeley’s Greek Theatre(w/311 and Medeski, Martin and Wood). But more than that, he’s cool with a number of people that know me. So he can ask them any questions he has about my character.

Or he can talk to me.

What would I do with your favorite hip-hop band?

It’s pretty simple actually….They need to be a band in the studio….a cohesive recording unit…

They need to actively write SONGS. They need to arrange and perform those songs live in the studio.

If you’re not familiar with the Roots current recording method, it goes like this…

The guys get in the studio and they jam. It get recorded and then deconstructed….

Ahmir picks pieces he likes and does a re-arrangement via ProTools and/or a sequencing tool(such as an MPC)….

The pieces are reconstituted as a beat for Riq to write to…

They almost never play live to tape as a group.

As any of you who have witnessed a Roots show know, each of the guys is a beast on his respective instrument…

But as musicians, they’ve not been challenged. Why?

Well, mostly because honestly, most hip-hop fans aren’t musicians and live music is kind of a foreign animal to them…So the Roots can play The Itsy Bitsy Spider and get a pass…

Secondly, they have no competition. The Black band is damn near extinct. And Hip-Hop bands are damn near unheard of(Besides The Roots I can only think of two)so there’s no one to raise the bar of what hip-hop bands can do…

But even if the public is musically ignorant, ppl can still recognize greatness and superior musicianship when they hear it.

The Roots have to step out of their comfort zone at this point. Hub has to make the bass talk. Ahmir’s drums have to put fire under your ass. Kamal's keys need to sing. Knuckles has to bring the ruckus(save the “more cowbell” jokes…)and they have one of the dopest guitar players around in the group….Kirk’s role needs to be much bigger.

Riq needs to do what he does best instead of being pressured into writing rhymes that he’s not really into.

Can Ahmir play a beat as shit-hot as Stewart Copeland?….he says he can….it’s time to show and prove.

But still, why me?
What would make me the one who could get this out of them?

Because:
1) I have nothing to lose….I don’t have a fat paycheck on the line nor any previous reputation to sully
2) I know how to communicate with musicians being one myself
3) I have no allegiances. My only mission is to serve the music. I would not be there to make friends or win favor or play Wii wit Ahmir. I’d have a job and I’m there to work. If the shit is not working, I’m not afraid to say so and I can and will articulate my position clearly. At the same time, I realize people are people and they have feelings and egos, ESPECIALLY musicians.

I know the work involved in making an album. It can be grueling. Long days and nights of listening to the same shit over and over again….uninvited guests in the way….days that are wasted because of faulty equipment and/or low morale….the pressure to finish from the record label...having to watch each penny that is being spent.

Should it bother them that I have no major credits to my name? It shouldn’t seeing as they work with unknowns all the time.

And finally, what makes me the best choice for this task?

Because all I’d want is a plane ticket to where the record is being recorded, a place to sleep each night, a small per diem so I could eat at least once each day, a plane ticket home and a co-producer credit on the album(if they want to sweeten the deal, we can definitely talk, tho)

They can keep the producer fees.

So, in other words…..I'M FUCKING CHEAP!

So fellas, what have you got to lose?







The avatar: Mo' betta makes it mo' betta...

**********************
Quote of a lifetime:
"...music is not just a hobby or what I do...it's what I live...music is the voice of my god, my vehicle for spiritual enlightenement..."
-OKP Illogicz

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 03:07 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
50. "theoretically perhaps"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

but producing a record/band is at least as much social skills as music knowledge/experience ...

so : even if you know all about
- mic positioning,
- the effects of doubletracking vocals,
- when to use which ribbon mics,
- how to (ab)use optical compressors,
- how to write string arrangements,
- when to use a plate reverb or rather a spring one,
- when to use a modified guitar amp for that other sound,
- why to use a Neve console instead of an SSL,
- the differences between and advantages of different consoles (Trident, Neve, Toft, SSL, ...) and high-end gear (Distressors, Avalon, Focusrite Red, Urei's, Manleys,), ...
- which engineer to use for what sound,
- ...
I still don't see you making it work on a people level.

But all of the above is based on personal experience which is far from positive, maybe your a different person in real life, or maybe it's just me.

but then still ... if your really serious about this, you need better arguments than just saying that you want them to record together (which is basically the main argument)... so your just gonna sit there, make sure everyone's on time and that's it ?

and I don't see how anyone could teach ?uestlove anything about creating a certain drum sound for example, so knowing when to guide/coach and when to shut up and let band members do what they do best, is quintessential.

on top of that, the choice for a certain producer by The Roots is a matter of life and death for them : it's not just the Roots' members careers on the line, but also family, friends, website staff ... I get the impression he underestimates the impact of a Roots album that's not doing what they hoped it would. This means that choosing a certain route/production/people to work with can have plenty of repercussions.

AND the most important thing : EVEN WITH THE WORLD'S GREATEST PRODUCER AND THE BEST SONGS EVER RECORDED YOUR RECORD WILL FLOP IF YOUR LABEL'S CEO BREAKS HIS PROMISES OR THE PROMO DEPT DOESN'T CARE !

You could have Quincy, Prince AND Don Costa producing your record and still go brick.


if I made The Roots an offer like this, I would at least think about my experience, provide an extensive portfolio/cv, some serious references, and offer to work for free for the first few days/weeks ...

Your proposition is way too vague at this moment.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
kelving948
Charter member
posts
Mon Dec-11-06 06:44 PM

65. "who the fuck does this clown think he is?"
In response to Reply # 32
Mon Dec-11-06 06:50 PM by kelving948

          

do you even know square 1 about recording and/or mixing music?
if youre not going to be making beats or sitting down at the instruments & writing songs for them - what the hell do you really think you could add to the equation that they couldnt get from someone else?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
whatisinaname
Member since Jan 11th 2005
390 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 05:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "Interesting Thoughts"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Thank you ?uestlove.

I have some thoughts and comments about your post that I may send to you later, after rereading and meditating on your questions....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
58impala
Member since Nov 08th 2004
16633 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 11:09 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
73. "YES, i got skillz to say he quits and now this:"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

>riq to do more inflections with his
>voice

really i want to say something about this, but i notice people take things to far when i criticize in artist and that writers will just use whatever they see on the broads in their reviews, not really putting their own honest judgement. (never really read that much reviews, because well its easier just to listen to the album, but after seeing the reviews of GT posted on okp, writers weren't really coming up of anything that wasn't already being said on the boards)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Sooch
Member since Dec 12th 2006
1 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 01:27 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "RE: we considered rick too"
In response to Reply # 4


          

What can Rick Rubin really do for the Roots? If the goal is to present a new sound or take the Roots in a different direction, how will Rubin do that? The Roots have been able to produce a very good albums on their own without much outside input and I think that is to their credit. Hip-Hop needs groups that are self-contained and self-sustained because the artists need to be challenged in that way and there needs to be groups that catapult their own legacies, without outside help. Inspire yourselves and WORK at generating new, fresh ideas within your team cause ultimately it's going to be YOUR SOUND. Not to say that you can't look to others for some inspiration or to spark new ideas. I'm not an artist and I don't know first hand how the musical creative process works but I'm sure
?uesto has ideas in abundance but just needs resources, outlets, whatever, to bring them to life.

I'm nostalgia ridden these days cause I miss cohesive albums. I miss the listening experience cause I'm not drawn in and immersed in the sounds anymore. Production is scattered on rap albums today and rap albums have just become a bunch of mix-tapes with scattered, uneven production. We need those albums that read:

A Tribe Called Quest: Produced by The Ummah
De La Soul: Produced by De La Soul (& Prince Paul)
Gangstarr: Produced by DJ Premier
The Wu-Tang Clan: Produced by The RZA
Pete Rock & CL Smooth: Produced by Pete Rock
Public Enemy: Produced by The Bomb Squad
The Roots: Produced by The Grand Negaz
Clipse: Produced by The Neptunes

you get the point...

Let's just make good albums man. Keep it an artform and inject some integrity back into the record making process.

Instead of being such a defeatist and crying that "Hip-Hop is dead", shut the fuck up and start making good Hip-Hop albums. Use that ego on steroids to bring the shit back.

The SZA

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
rick
Charter member
3696 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 05:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
94. "nah, fuck that"
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

i woulda hooked your shit up.

pretend to be cats don't seem to know they limitations
exact replication and false representation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
zephyr
Member since Oct 18th 2004
434 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 06:44 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
99. "Honestly, Quest..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

why do you even ask for the opinions of people in the lesson?
they really dont know shit
Game Theory was an artistic masterpiece
Your true fans are gonna buy your albums no matter what
are you not living comfortably enough?
i dont think you should feel the need to change your music to make more money
that is, unless you dont think youre living comfortably enough..

_______________________________________
Medicine is big business so my remedies is herbal...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
BlackZ
Member since Oct 27th 2005
32 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 06:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
118. "RE: we considered rick too"
In response to Reply # 4


          

All in all one must always play the hand that's been dealt to them. Trust in your members, outsiders beware!!! If ya'll build it they will come.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

handle
Charter member
16747 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 08:04 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "I hear Rick is a Prick (capital P)"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Dec-10-06 08:05 PM by handle

          

Look what ge did to Devo (http://vermontreview.tripod.com/Interviews/devo.htm)

Vermont Review: Did you produce the South Park Chef Aid album or did you contribute a song?

Jerry Casale: We contributed a song. The process was not much funny for us. This guy Rick Rubin, who has a big name and reputation, but what a terror. He took producer credit and he didn’t produce it………we did. We said, "What are you doing?" He said: " I am Rick Rubin. I am American Records. I am keeping this money." It never stops in the music business. We are still chasing tens of thousands of dollars were owed from Rugrats (The Movie) and South Park (Chef Aid Album). They find so many ways to abscond with your money.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
rick
Charter member
3696 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 05:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
95. "nah, im a good guy"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

im crazy for that one, though.

pretend to be cats don't seem to know they limitations
exact replication and false representation

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Yadgyu
Member since May 31st 2006
8856 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 08:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
18. "Rick Rubin shouldn't waste his time."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Roots don't want to sell records.

----
----
----
----
----

GET ON MY LEVEL!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 08:47 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
20. "ahhh i see great ponderers at work eh?"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

lol

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
AGP
Member since Aug 22nd 2006
33 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 05:16 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "Make A Deep Funk Album..."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

...seriously...please!

I'd love to hear ?uesto smashing out fast, nasty filthy breaks and Thought tearing them to bits.
I'd love to hear what Hub and Kirk could come up with on the guitars...Meters-esque chicken pluckery and deep fonky rolling basslines...
I'd love to hear Kamal hammering a hammond into submission!
Get Winehouse to give you a verse and a chorus or Sharon Jones or Marva Whitney...Lee Fields...Nicoel Willis...Al Green!
Get El Michels Affair to give you some strings on a couple of smoothed out soulful joints.

And somehow combine the raw way those Daptone guys record it all with some ?uestlove studio magic and bring that old raw deep funk sound into today and blow the world away.

I don't mean for you to purposefully make 'The Roots retro record'... but to combine hip-hop and funk in a way it never has been done; raw and with a live band, a talented band, would be incredible.
For many people the funk teases and covers are their favourite parts of your live show and this could translate that sound and energy, onto record.

And the crossover appeal, with no selling out AT ALL is there..rock kids would get down...hip-hop heads...funk heads...soul heads...

(And just for me (!), do a cover of Gil Scott-Herons 'Pieces Of A Man' with a couple of verses by BT and watch it blow up - thought I'd squeeze that in - it worked for the girl who wanted you to do Star!)

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
Ayatollah Watts
Member since Jul 29th 2002
2919 posts
Thu Dec-14-06 05:21 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
125. "if they went deep funk, I'd want Sly moreso than the Meters"
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

@TheBlackZappa

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
StranjTrax
Member since Jun 26th 2005
434 posts
Thu Dec-14-06 01:25 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
123. "RE: ahhh i see great ponderers at work eh?"
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

Props to you for even listening to these people. Don't know how you do it...geeez.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

PungeePyPy
Member since Jul 09th 2006
9386 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 09:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
21. "Nah, I don't think they need Rick"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The Roots sound so ripe and golden to me right now.

what was wrong w/ Game Theory again? people on here just don't take the time to sit down and listen to an album for more than a week.

i mean, i bet if 'songs in the key of life' was released today with today's listeners at the helm... shit, that album would pass through real quick.


The Roots just need to keep digging deeper. they love what they do and I don't think a producer is going to come in and just BAM! bring out some magic shit.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Scrapluv
Charter member
14806 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 10:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
25. "I agree here."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

I LOVED the sound and artistic direction of the last record. I think they would be better off building on that

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

auxyray
Member since Nov 11th 2005
1466 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 10:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
24. "the roots need chucho valdes to produce their next record"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but since no one knows who that is, their goning to have to make a journey out of it, somewhere, so that the record has an angle.

pegado al teclado

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
auxyray
Member since Nov 11th 2005
1466 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 01:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
82. "btw this could also open up touring possibilities in Mexico"
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Brazil

pegado al teclado

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
kase
Member since Jul 27th 2006
602 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 09:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
84. "RE: btw this could also open up touring possibilities in Mexico"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

I know who Chucho is. Mainly cause I admire his father Bebo who did that record Lágrimas Negras together with Diego el Cigala that I keep recommending people. So why I am saying this is: don't forget that it would open touring possibilities in CUBA as well. (Bebo and Chucho are exile Cubans). Though this doesn't matter cause they ain't got no money...


  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
auxyray
Member since Nov 11th 2005
1466 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 01:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
105. "seriously i think the whole latin jazz movement from cuba during"
In response to Reply # 84


  

          

the 70s is right up their alley. Whole lot of drums, whole lot of brass. almost in line with N.O. brass band but fresh.

pegado al teclado

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10122 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 10:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
26. "honestly, WHY dont you just go indie? do you REALLY need the major $?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

im not trying to be a dick at all, its just that i hear fools like Madlib, Dilla, DangerMouse, Living Legends, Crown City Rockers make dope ass shit on shoestring budgets, and i consider The Roots better than most of them so i dont understand how your creativity cant just circumvent your need for a major label machine. enlighten if you will.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 11:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "yes i do need the money"
In response to Reply # 26


  

          

and not in no "mtv crib" way.

i need to pay my mom and dad's mortgage.
and i retired the both of them so i am their source of income
cause dubbya's america aint to cool the SS and the middle class.
i have my own house to pay off.
im trying to bring more income in so i copped another home so that i can rent out
my previous crib.
okayplayer cost a GRIP to run now. (the merch alone is like whoa)
shawn gee takes all my financial headaches away from me so he needs to be paid.
rich nichols is the reason why my hair aint gray and falling out.
if i record at home the neighbors will call the cops so i need a place to make my music--its more cost efficient to have my own studio than rent electric lady (minor exceptions) and as the owner of 50,000+ records i need a place to store em.
touring is the bread and butter of the roots so we need the most EFFIcient staff ever.

tina faris-runs our lives and she in turn runs:

the production manager keith
the sound designer-artless
the stage manager-miri
our monitor man-effrom
and if we can afford it a light operator.

for the small tasks she needs an assistant-enter sarah or sometimes ginny who doubles on okayplayer.

we need to travel so its unlawful for 17 people to travel on the tourcoaches so we need 2.

now we could cut back and "motel 6" it....but you know mofos aint tryna hear that shit.

so hotels and food run about 20,000 a week.


a week.


and that aint flossing either.


add in the occasional flights-13,000-19,000 and this is using our milage cards and stuff.


i didn't even get domestic on you.


we have

2.5 kids on average so that alone is loot.
then add in wives/girlfriends/babymomma and the cost of survival on that end if they are NOT living with us.....

just to "near drown" costs us about 5 million dollars.

anything above that is gravy and lucky

to reach that we gotta tour.

we cant wear our market value doing nyc 78 times a year. noone will show up by show 12.

now some places we go we can get the good price ($$$,$$$)

but some places in the world it aint popping (see milan blog) so we gotta do it for cheap and hope to build up to the level that will allow us to charge ($$$,$$$)

now with major funding we can get songs on video/radio and then that ups our value.

we up our value then we dont have to tour as much (and we turning 40 so i dont even know how long we can physically last doing these shows on this level)

the dream is to do some phish shit. but we would have to abandon THis platform.

or dave mathews who USEd to tour like us.....but is now able to charge 3.5 million a show can lay back and just do 4 months of touring a year.

you saw where 0 promotion from major label got us....

now imagine where 0 promotion from NO label gets me.

imagine that....im head of a million dollar company and damn near scrapping.

a million aint a million no more.


now if we made 10 million! we could relax a lil bit.

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
universally_speaking
Member since Jan 09th 2005
3586 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 11:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
42. "wow..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

thats really insane. its more than u do need the money, its u deserve the money. A label should back u no matter what, if they put the money in, then they'll see some progress, due to promotion or whatever. Its a shame ur not sellin as much as you should. but i wouldnt like that to be the reason that u all change they way u are.

Rick Rubin is one of those people that i always look out for. RAGE, RHCP, Classic Def Jam artists, J.Cash, to sooo many others. I would love to see what he does if he could work WITH the roots.

Notice i said with, not tell the roots what to sound like to $ell. he's not always a perfect fit tho... remember what happened to that Weezer album he was working on with them, "creative differences" after a long while of working on an album. but other than that, i think a collab like that has EPIC potential, to be honest with u...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10122 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 11:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
43. "i understand your expenses, freal, but im sayin ..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

i dont understand what a big label does that cant be compensated by the freedom and financial opportunities in an indie (3-7 dollars a record).

if you werent on Def Jam would you have even less exposure? for example, the Dont Feel Right video was dope, but barely got played and now its on some MTVU status, you even said that you might get a pity video from Def Jam of barely 100K, and if that one gets made it would probably meet the same fate as the one before it, are you gonna get 100K worth of exposure off that video?

was all the work and debt that came from the 1st GT video worth it in terms of exposure and promotion, are you worth that much more in the touring market?

it just seems that you are stuck in a predicament where youre making a cake you cant have or eat. too big for an indie but not accessible enough for a major. i´m not tryina diss or be a dick but im just thinking there must be a way to get yall in a more comfortable position artistically and financially.



  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 03:13 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "simple"
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

record sales ain't what they used to be.

even if you get a bigger share on an indie or smaller label, it still won't compensate for the loss in numbers that ALL releases are faced with today.

thanks to illegal downloads ... liveshows/movie soundtracks/video games scoring is where the money is at nowadays, FORGET RECORD SALES.

the record/album today us just a promo for the group, don't expect to make money from it !




krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10122 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 04:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
52. "um...300K X 5 = 1.5 mil divided by 6 = 250K each,"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

without touring, thats pretty good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 04:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "RE: um...300K X 5 = 1.5 mil divided by 6 = 250K each,"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

I'm pretty sure the numbers aren't that simple as you claim them to be ... for starters there's more than just 6 people living off the income from records ... 17 people on tour as ?uest said, plus website staff, ...







krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
15
Member since Mar 01st 2005
9915 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 09:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
71. "oh my bad"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

you thought we get paid?!?!? lol

i aint say no salARY for The Roots

and 5 mil?


government is taking 2.9 out of the 5 mil btw

NO! LIST
Tom Petty
M J
Zeppelin
Springsteen
Neil Young
Eagles
Ray Charles
Madonna
Chuck Berry
South Park TV Songs
Justin Timberlake
"Food Glorious Food"
"Twilight Zone" theme
"A Boy Named Sue"
"Night Moves"
"The Situation"
"Superbowl Shuffle"

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
monopoli
Member since Dec 12th 2006
1 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 02:40 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
91. "For the Roots"
In response to Reply # 71


  

          

I write in layers. sorry

First of all, I think what you (Ahmir) are doing is brilliant. I am referring to myspace blogs and the long running relationship you are building with your fanbase on okayplayer.com and its boards. Not only did you make a place available for the people, you ARE one of those people whom you built the site for. Its a great way of listening to the people that listen to you. You can listen to critics all day, (Mojo Mag) but they're, in a sense, being forced to listen to your album and therefore tell the consumer what THEY think about it. Through okayplayer, you are bypassing the middle man (critic) and going straight to the consumer. So, kudos on listening to the people that are listening to you.

Great segway: There are people listening to you as musicians/artists (I am one of 'em). How did they start listening to the Roots? Well, the Roots recorded an album they way they wanted it to be recorded and released it to the public. Portions of the public listened and they are now your fanbase. They didn't talk to/write Tariq, Hub, ?uest, or Kamal, and say, "I heard you guys are musicians/artists. This is the type of record you need to record." The Roots (and whoever has lended a hand) created their own art since the days of Organix. So why should the Roots ask their fanbase what they need to do be bigger? The Roots is a group of musicians. They are artists. They paint their own canvas.

Insofar as a need to be a bigger group (record sales, intl ticket sales, etc.), I think you need to think outside of the box. You can be pissed about record sales and about the lack of promotion from Def Jam or Geffen or whoever. Or you can do something about it. Obviously, record sales have been dropping every year due to filesharing. Do you think thats going to end? No. I hate to say it....actually...no, I don't. Artists have been complaining about how record labels are raping them for too long. So considering there is a new means of presenting your music, why not find some compromise with that new means that allows you to cut out the record label altogether? Ahmir says, "Yeah genius. How are we supposed to make the record? With what funds? How are we supposed to market it?"

Next layer: I've been doing street promotion since the age of 15. Started my own street marketing team at 17/18. Became co-owner of a music production company at 19. I currently own a company that provides regional marketing and national event promotion and I'm 24 yrs old. I remember going to music business symposiums since I was 16 years of age. One of the central points of the symposiums was how can New Orleans' artists (since I'm born and raised New Orleanian)continue making art while making money to survive? You see, New Orleans has always been known for having AMAZING MUSIC AND MUSICIANS. But they never took the time to learn the business. The Roots are a part of something called the MUSIC BUSINESS. The Roots are the only live hiphop group/band making real hip-hop music, w/o compromising their integrity. They are musicians/artists. Now, In no way am I trying to say that you, Ahmir, nor anyone else in the group are not aware of the biz. I know you are. But, what I'd like to see you do is think outside the box. Be a businessman. Put on your fucking Donald Trump thinking cap and spew some ill ass ideas out. By that I mean DIVERSIFY.

Next layer: "Diversify? I, we, are doing that." I'm sure you are, but do it more. It takes money to make money, right? If studio time is costing you a lot, work directly from your own studio and facilitate it so that other artists/bands/producers record there. THATS A DIFFERENT STREAM OF REVENUE. You've become one of the biggest names in not only hip-hop, but in the music industry. Market yourself. Yeah, the Roots already did a Coca-Cola commercial. Why not do more commercials/ads for brands they feel comfortable endorsing, w/o compromising their integrity? THATS A DIFFERENT STREAM OF REVENUE. I purchase from the Okayplayer store every now and then b/c I like the stuff you've got. I've seen the Roots perform damn near 15 times. Maybe I'm blind, but I can't recall seeing a merch table in a while. Seen one before but not recently. Again, maybe I'm blind, but whatever. Anyway. As you, Sir ?uest, mentioned, it takes money to run that clothing initiative, but how much more would you make if you put a strong marketing campaign behind it? Isn't Roots clothing self promotion in itself? What if you set up some die hard Roots fan to run your merch table in their respective city whenever you perform? IF you're at festivals, would it cost you an arm and a leg to get a booth? A booth at a festival gets mad impressions. I ran the URB Mag booth at the Voodoo Music Fest and got a lot of love. Why don't the Roots do that? Is their any band buying out a booth at festivals? Be a revolutionary. Start a trend. DIFFERENT STREAM OF REVENUE.

Next, and hopefully the last layer: You're a trendsetter. You set the trends, Ahmir. Step outside the box. There is a trend of record sales continuing to drop. Do you invest in a company thats showing obvious signs of failure? No. So why do you keep investing in the record industry? Look at new ways to make filesharing a form of revenue. Dr. Goolsby, of Loyola University New Orleans, once told me, "give away the steak, but sell the sizzle." Thats what you need to do. Keep doing music for yourself. There's nothing wrong with working with outside producers, but don't think that just b/c you put Rick Rubin on the credits will all sorts of people start listening, nor will albums start selling more, nor will Def Jam give you more $$$$$$$.

I've been a fan of the Roots for long time and they've never dissapointed me on an album. I don't have expectations for their albums because its their art. I don't judge their music b/c I'm just happy I'm getting music this good. I hope that I was of some help to you. this is what I do. Any more help, hit me up. email: gio@positive-nrg.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
beeazy
Member since Mar 04th 2005
482 posts
Thu Dec-14-06 05:34 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
126. "RE: For the Roots"
In response to Reply # 91


  

          

Dr. Goolsby, of
>Loyola University New Orleans, once told me, "give away the
>steak, but sell the sizzle."

I learned that in the car business

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
58impala
Member since Nov 08th 2004
16633 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 11:44 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "hahaha, we the fuck did you get 5 dollars per cd from?"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

isnt it usually about a 1 to 2 dollars per cd

i dont even think mj will can 5 per cd right after thriller

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
sweeneykovar
Member since Oct 26th 2004
10122 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 07:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
83. "i meant a good indie deal, and youre right ? totally blanked"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

on gov´t taxes. fuck it, just sell out for 3 years, endorse, show ya ASS, cake up and do what you want for the next 20. jus playin. its a wonder how some fools keep on in an industry like that

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
leisurebrain
Member since Jan 18th 2005
447 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 05:10 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "RE: yes i do need the money"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>now some places we go we can get the good price ($$$,$$$)
>
to be honest I haven't gone to your shows the last few times you came through because the tickets were too damn expensive.

Say Ho

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 05:41 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "of course"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

I'm not gonna argue about those numbers, but if there's not enough money coming in and finding extra sources doesn't really help, I'm afraid you'll have to be creative about cutting costs some way or another ...

you said it yourself that the current businessmodel won't survive (majors selling albums), but still you seem to base your survival and your group's business model on this industry ?

I mean : the chance that finances don't keep going uphill but start to stagnate is pretty big, and y'all have been doing well and even better every year for the past 15 years, that alone is impressive and proof of wise management and long term planning. How many professional musicians your age can say the same (forget Cribs, those houses and cars aren't paid for) ?

What I'm getting at is that I'd hate the financial aspects of The Roots obscuring the creative process, and sometimes I get the impression of seeing the first signs of this happening. Not in the sense that y'all make certain compromises musically or creatively, BUT that worrying about the money you need monthly to pay everyone and everything becomes so important and timeconsuming that you can't keep a clear head.

Cos even though you have staff to worry about these things, in the end you're the one who has to make decisions so I'm pretty sure you still worry about it. I know I did/do in the bands I lead(ed) and play with (and I don't even have to look after others' income).

What I'm saying is : maybe cutting down here and there (not necessarily firing people) can give you a little more comfort and less stress when making music.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
hayes79
Member since Jul 20th 2005
25 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 02:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
110. "RE: yes i do need the money"
In response to Reply # 41


          

I hope you guys just keep doing what youre doing because there is no other group/artist that I check for more than yall. You guys are what made me want to create my music and you are what Hip Hop stands for. There is so much that the public, myself included, does not understand about how the music industry works. And there is also a huge amount that we dont understand about how hard it is to stay true to yourself/your music and still make a decent living off of your craft.
It makes me sick to my stomach to even think about The Roots not being signed to a major label with all the support in the world behind em. They deserve everything that has come their way so far.
And I believe that if they stick to the gameplan of making THEIR music under THEIR circumstances that real hip hop will once again step to the forefront and The Roots will be on top.

I can hear the frustration on Quest's voice in his blogs and in the tone of his posts. I know I couldnt begin to put myself in The Roots' shoes, but I will always have them in my heart.

Keep BUYING (ill say it again) BUYING hip hop records that move you. Keep supporting the very people who break their backs, minds, and sometimes pockets to keep their music out in this great world of ours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

cville75
Member since Oct 05th 2005
1212 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 11:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
30. "What about sittin in with some crazy people?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Cee-Lo?
Dangermouse?
Jack White?


dare I say, talk to SLY STONE?

as far as the political line goes, Sly could tell you a thing or two in person. and from the likes of it, he has nothing but time on his hands right?

<----They WILL carry the cross

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
58impala
Member since Nov 08th 2004
16633 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 11:45 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
76. "dangermouse is not a bad idea"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

ill bet out of any producer he can work with riq and his inflections

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

C.Carter
Member since Jul 05th 2006
97 posts
Sun Dec-10-06 11:38 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "maybe a.."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...2 disc. First, the Comercial fan/ radio attention grabber (all Riq focussed with 'hot' guest producers) and the other for the okayplayers with classic Roots sound, and also with some more instrument focussed songs.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

boyd
Member since May 15th 2006
7654 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 12:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "RE: Rick Rubin is an ill produce"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


and i will love to hear the roots + rick rubin collabo.

personally, in my humble opinion, jay z is not doing any of the artist of def jam justice. he is the president of hip hop is history for his own ego. how can u personally give the artist(s) the opportunity to/for growth when you are in competition with them?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

shwin
Charter member
3481 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 01:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
34. "Open a Club"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

In New York.

I understand that your roots (no pun) are philly, but the press angle stuff that you understand so well, can be maximized by having a place in new york.

Frankly, there is a (huge huge huge huge huge) market for a lower east side leader in the rap scene. the beasties were just kids from money that played rock and found rap. blondie namechecked acts because it lent her cred.

go to a hipster party today and you get old school rap and ironic new stuff. and these are the people that drive what the media picks up and deems cool. the angle of co-opting them hasn't been used.

mention the roots and you get two kinds of fans:

1.) Upper middle class white males
2.) Solo black nerds

the diverse make-up of fans on this site is really ONLY limited to this site. and i bet half the people that post regularly didn't by a copy of gt.


beyond the fact that you will make money, beyond the fact that this idea is feasible even without the status you guys have, beyond the fact that you can find acts that have talent that live in the area (read: lastblackkidsinlowermanhattan) this can be huge.

i can't think of one decent hip-hop spot in new york. frankly the new offshoots of hanger-ons in rap seem to intimidate white people. which has NEVER been the case before. When Ziegfield stole black dances to put on broadway, he did it because white audiences had done these black dances in black clubs.

youtube as the new broadway? its all caricature, especially the HBCU dudes.


find a space, partner with someone, buy the building or find a good lease. cbgb's is gone (frankly it had been gone for a while). be the rap cbgb's

David Cross couldn't buy that club last year. A club from The Roots and David Cross downtown? Holymotherofgod.

And best of all, charge whatever you want when you play. Its your spot.

Ive got a 100K if you want to move forward, with a real business plan and financial analysis (give me a month first to move assets around)


Bottom Line: Become arbiters of culture by having a spot. Co-opt the new york press. have a base that you can franchise later like bbkings. a reasonable cover charge or passes for regulars, good drinks, good food and drink. you can get acts in a small space that you control the acoustics for.

git r done







~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
cville75
Member since Oct 05th 2005
1212 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 02:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
35. "everything you said was decent until"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

GIT R DUN?

excuse me?
sorry, maybe I didn't see that wackness.

but, hey, good plan anyways. and props for having 100k on the spot. I don't even have $100 right now..

<----They WILL carry the cross

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
shwin
Charter member
3481 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 02:37 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
36. "it was a"
In response to Reply # 35


  

          



david cross reference. i don't espouse the palm beach poseur style of the cable guy.

and to clarify, i'd have to unlock equtiy somewhere. i'm always leveraged to the hilt (savings NEVER get invested).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NYU

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 04:51 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
55. "sounds like a good plan !"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

of course more of a long term thing (in regards to album sales and potential income) but definitely a good idea.


krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
shwin
Charter member
3481 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 09:02 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
69. "The subscription idea"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

Coupled with the spot, is the way to go

Delayed payment options are the ones that generate the most revenue (see: ringtones, 600 million in essentially one year)

The disappearance of albums is the only viable model. SO SO SO SO SO sad. the experience of listening to a record will be gone, in favor of isolated recordings that are subscription based
(live, remix, album track, solo songs)

especially with what ? has said about the profit sharing system, this will be good. i dont think that anyone other than real music heads and album reviewers listen to albums as albums.

the ability to choose individual tracks has destroyed the album experience. but this needs to be supplanted with a better experience for the fan. and NO ONE has a better fan experience than the roots. the shows, this community, only dane cook circa 2005 was better.

so why no sales? the experience needs to be tied together. and i think a spot can do that.


and also, bets that labels are going to want a cut of touring revenue to recoup. the only way around this is to own the venue

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
shwin
Charter member
3481 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 09:05 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
70. "also"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

the spot is NOT primarily for the roots.

its so they can pick and breed talent.

arbiters of culture.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
58impala
Member since Nov 08th 2004
16633 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 11:47 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
77. "cbgb couldnt even afford to pay their rent, how do you think it will"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

be profitable in new york? especially when alot clubs in new york go in and out like fruit flies. i dont see it working

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
shwin
Charter member
3481 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 01:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
80. "CBGB could pay their rent!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

hilly kristal managed the place like shit. he could have bought the building a ton of times and he always had undeclared income from the shirts. SO MANY OF THOSE SHIRTS.

and tenants that don't pay rent for YEARS are not struggling tenants. they are dishonest.

and don't try to tell me that the vibe of dirtiness was what kept it real. pee on the seats is ok. sva students doing free verse on a friday night is an awful business model.

and im not saying open a spot in that area. lower east side is still affordable. and still without a solid rap spot
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

beautifulboogieman
Member since Dec 11th 2004
1271 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 04:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "The Roots Need Fans that Actually Buy the Album...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...rubin is noice though!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
black dante

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
randomxxl
Member since Jul 03rd 2003
127 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 10:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
40. "Here's a thought-no christopher rios..."
In response to Reply # 37


          

Make a straight up hip hop album that bangs. Period. I've been down with the Roots since Do You Want More and it appears that the straight up hip hop vibe of the early albums is not at the forefront any more. I'm not in the industry-I'm just a student of hip hop-so i'm not privy to the behind the scene goings on of creating these records. I just know what I like, and it sounds like yall tryin too hard. I'm a fan first and foremost and NOBODY just rips the mic anymore-NOBODY!! Everybody's got a back story, a platform, or an agenda but nobody just rips the mic...except Black Thought! Riq is about the only pure mc left out there and I think the Roots' "sound" is what's holding yall back. Shit-if yall was to come out on some rip the mic, dope beat steez, it'd be considered a new retro movement! Best albums of the year to me have been the Game's and the Clipse's. Why? Bangin beats and straight up rhyming. And yeah, both those acts have 'agendas' but at the end of the day, it's all about the beats and all about the rhymes. Period.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
shockzilla
Charter member
37796 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 06:33 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
64. "RE: The Roots Need Fans that Actually Buy the Album...."
In response to Reply # 37


          

what a novel idea.

that could work.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Eddy
Member since Jul 07th 2003
2464 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 09:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "they just need to carry on what they were doing on GT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

plus maybe add a few strings or make a few more tracks feel 'epic'

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

schatzattack
Member since Jan 05th 2004
32 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 12:21 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
44. "Steven Drozd would do wonders"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Not for success, just for sonic beauty. He knows his way around sound like few others and could coax some pretty amazing new shit out of you guys I think.

i know you dig it when I kick it baby

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

dafriquan
Charter member
24695 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 12:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "actually...Rick Rubin is exactly what they don't need"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

more alienation from hip-hop?
no thanks.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
jbeez00
Member since Dec 09th 2006
9 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 05:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
116. "dear child of the 90s"
In response to Reply # 46


          

do your homework

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
dafriquan
Charter member
24695 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 07:19 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
121. "i expected a bullshit response like this...lol"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

Who cares what he did at Def Jam back when I was in diapers?
Rick Rubin is irrelevant to hip-hop today. And with a few
exceptions most of his recent work is for non hip-hop artists.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rons1ne
Member since Nov 02nd 2004
1554 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 01:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
47. "why not take your 2-3 favorite records from each album..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and ask yourself why these joints are special.

arrangement?
vocal delivery?
drums? guitar? keys? bass? other percussion?
sound?
feel?

this can go on and on. send them to producers you have in mind and have them come back with something that brings out the characteristics of why these joints are special to you. Don't have them just replicate the track, but the emotion within the track. in some cases, it may be one producer who can bring out the joy, pain, tears expressed in your records, maybe its multiple producers who are can bring out the emotions in one and not the other. Your next album will bring out something from every album you've released.

also, i think you should make an album that includes footage of your process start to finish - a la fade to black-ish type shit. recording sessions, jam sessions, concert footage (we've been asking for this for a long time ?uest). how about tracks that showcase each individuals instrumental talents (guitar laden track, a bass heavy track, a percussion track, etc).

And while your at it, pitch a show to MTV, MTV2, MTVU, VH1, BET or whomever that will document who you make your next album and just your everyday lives. In no way am I putting you in the same catagory as Ashley Parker Angel, Danity Kane or those other groups that had a making the band type shit, but it did help their exposure to a broad audience.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
quasiquas
Member since Jul 29th 2006
13 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 01:52 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
89. "RE: why not take your 2-3 favorite records from each album..."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

>and ask yourself why these joints are special.
>
>arrangement?
>vocal delivery?
>drums? guitar? keys? bass? other percussion?
>sound?
>feel?


love the idea, but i want us the fans to do that, and then just think about it, and why you want to change it. there's no reason!!


the roots made each record a special one and made them always sound inovative, that's what i love about them.

and if their happy with the money they earn, why should they change something?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Natural Mystic
Charter member
posts
Mon Dec-11-06 03:05 PM

49. "*i was here* *this post is AWESOME*"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 04:54 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "THE BOTTOM LINE REMAINS"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

that if you don't have a label with it's promo dept. willing to work their asses off for you, you can have the best album ever made but it won't sell.

the problem is not so much the music and definitely NOT the engineering, but the (lack of) marketing/promotion.



krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
krewcial
Charter member
3268 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 05:50 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "and also : spend more time OFFline ?uest"
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

the amount of people online is very vocal but also very small and consequently not representative for the Roots audience.

I sometimes get the appearance that what is being said on these boards gets more weight than it deserves while it should in no way influence what y'all do and decide.

Same for magazine reviews or top 50's. I was really surprised by the impact that seemed to have on you, judging from the clip on youtube. Not something I expected from someone with your cv, credentials, experience and skills.





krewcial
www.krewcial.com
www.myspace.com/krewcial
www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=23051&forum=lesson

http://www.23hq.com/krewcial/photo/1085564?album_id=1085556

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
shockzilla
Charter member
37796 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 06:26 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "..see 'game theory'."
In response to Reply # 56


          

>that if you don't have a label with it's promo dept. willing
>to work their asses off for you, you can have the best album
>ever made but it won't sell.
>
>the problem is not so much the music and definitely NOT the
>engineering, but the (lack of) marketing/promotion.

perhaps not the best album EVER made, but i do think that it's the roots at their best.

the music wasn't the problem. at all.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

desmondo66
Member since Jul 21st 2005
401 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 05:43 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Absolutely no way - go with Brian Wilson

Cheers

Richard

www.thelonius.co.uk

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
jbeez00
Member since Dec 09th 2006
9 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 08:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "humor me"
In response to Reply # 60


          

justify this choice please

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
desmondo66
Member since Jul 21st 2005
401 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 02:17 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
90. "RE: humor me"
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

The guy's a genius and just the thought of him trying to get The Roots doing it completely organically would be great.

Hey I love them both but I had my tongue in my cheek - firmly - it is absolutely unlikely.

I still don't think Rubin is the guy tho'

Cheers

Richard

www.thelonius.co.uk

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rons1ne
Member since Nov 02nd 2004
1554 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 06:22 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
62. "why not take some cues from the sneaker culture..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

make a very limited/exclusive EP, don't even promote it.

or post it online...okp, ebay and see the response it gets. from comments to $$$.

limited runs on something can always be lucrative.

shit, make cassette tapes again or do a vinyl only release.

and then re-release the cd 10 years later.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
58impala
Member since Nov 08th 2004
16633 posts
Mon Dec-11-06 11:50 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
78. "hahaha @ this idea"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rons1ne
Member since Nov 02nd 2004
1554 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 01:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "how about some Green Day Amercian Idiot..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

rock opera type ish.

and no, not the R. Kelly trapped in the closet type ish.

some kind of hip hopera.

is there a hip hop album that is like this?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
auxyray
Member since Nov 11th 2005
1466 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 01:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
81. "don't get me wrong i love prince paul but"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

that ish aint gonna have comercial appeal because for the average listener a "hip-hopera" isnt going to have any replay value.

pegado al teclado

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

MU
Member since Nov 10th 2002
454 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 01:03 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
86. "RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i agree with what quest said about riq. he's a great mc and this is what he does better than a lot of "popular" rappers. it's just that he's not a front man. quest is really a frontman. it's quest who is most accessible to the fans. he's posting here, writting blogs, puting videos on youtube, doing interviews etc. it he wasn't doing all these things i think the roots wouldn't have so many fans.
but usually the singer is the front man of the band. so this is kind of confusing with the roots. i was just discussing this with my friends who were with me at the roots concert. i think if riq would put more effort into putting himself to the front it would help the success of the whole group. but as i understand he's not that kind of person and doesn't want to expose his personal shit to the public. there's nothing wrong with that if they all agree to work like that. to me, that makes the roots band even more special. i don't know what nubers they make but i think they're doing okay. they're not millionairs but i think they must earn some decent money touring.
just my opinion...

-----------------------------
www.myspace.com/murat3
www.myspace.com/yoyocuts
www.radyoyo.si
www.muratjose.si

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
auxyray
Member since Nov 11th 2005
1466 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 02:56 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
93. "thats not what he was saying"
In response to Reply # 86
Tue Dec-12-06 03:02 PM by auxyray

  

          

?ues is the pr face of the roots thats why it appears that he's the "front man." If you agree that the front man is the same thing as leader of the band, one could argue that riq is the front man on the cd's and at live shows. making him more pr friend by FORCING him to write more blogs and become more like ?ues is some of the gayest shit ive ever heard and generally just a bad idea.

pegado al teclado

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bski
Member since Jun 09th 2002
12107 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 05:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
96. "The Roots' problem doesn't lie with their production"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

It lies with their promotion (or lack thereof). They dropped their best album since TFA and nobody but us knew about it. Way to go, Def Jam!



http://www.myspace.com/bski
http://www.myspace.com/livesociety

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

trouble man
Member since Apr 17th 2005
912 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 05:14 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
97. "get back on some ''the tipping point'' shit."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i know i run the risk of getting screamed on by some of y'all, but please read me out. if i'm not mistaken, that album sold like 400k. that does NOT constitute a brick. it's only like 300k less than what ''phrenology'' sold. there were, what, two videos from ''ttp'',''don't say nuthin''' and ''star''. i saw ''nuthin''' a few times, but i swear i only saw ''star'' once. the point i'm making is that the numbers ''ttp'' did were respectable, given that they were back on geffen, a label they weren't on for the two albums that went gold,''things fall apart'' and ''phrenology''. get back to that style and sound, and dare i say it, get commercial on that ass. quest, y'all know erykah and jill. fuck it, do another ballad. as another okayplayer wrote, get al green to do something. shit, if d'angelo got on snoop's shit, get him on y'all's.
mind you, i BOUGHT ''game theory'' and on everything, that muthafucka is incredible, but i'm not your everyday fairweathered hip-hop fan. i can and do appreciate the artistic effort the roots put into that album, but now i think it's time to fall back a little bit on that and lighten the mood, which is where my ''ttp'' suggestion comes in.
y'all don't NEED outside producers, but if some tracks cross y'all ears, be they from whoever, use that shit. but y'all hold shit down nicely on your own.
my two cents.

www.soundcloud.com/domsyncro
www.domsyncro.bandcamp.com
www.twitter.com/domsyncro

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
auxyray
Member since Nov 11th 2005
1466 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 01:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
106. "i do think TTP is the favorite album at first glance of ppl"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

who have never heard the roots before.

pegado al teclado

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

VonClay
Charter member
21865 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 05:31 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
98. "I don't think he'd do much for them"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but this post is filled with interesting ideas.

Instagram: @von_clay

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

prophet j
Member since Aug 22nd 2002
10109 posts
Tue Dec-12-06 08:12 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
102. "Explain to me what Rick Rubin could do"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


- - - - -

jy
1974-2006

peace & love

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
jbeez00
Member since Dec 09th 2006
9 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 02:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
107. "in short, introduce them to a new fanbase"
In response to Reply # 102


          

Before I make the argument for Rick, let me address some of the responses I know I'm gonna get. If it was a perfect world, I wouldn't want them to change a thing. Simple as that. As I said before, I feel they need to stop worrying about what OKP or critics might think and reach for a fanbase outside of the norm, or it's _lights out_. They've only been able to do this with the Seed, which speaks to my point. I read some posts here and I don't think many people appreciate the urgency of this next project, nor do they understand the #'s behind this game. Maybe if they did they wouldn't take this forum for granted (years ago I used to lurk in the Lesson, WTF happened?!) and wouldn't have downloaded a dope ass GT album.

That said, much of GT is inaccessible, both melodically and vocally, I'll give a few examples. That CBBbAm progression in the False Media chorus and verse-bridge is barely audible under the monstrous kick, scream samples, layers of hard panned percussion, and even that completely disappears during much of Riq's verse. The melodic transition to the 2nd chorus is unorthodox, matched by the stutter step drums that randomly tease a time signature change. Also try to count the number of tracks going here - it's incredibly layered! The arabic scales of both In the Music and the guitars in Take it There are too repetitive back to back, and simply don't "bang" after the first minute. The second movement of Take it There could have been like Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, but the intermittent instrumentation (bubbly synth and bass) and overly delayed vocals I feel takes away from its potential rawness. The chord progression on Don't See Us is too much like Adrenaline. Also for a rap album marketed on Def Jam, I'm surprised at the inclusion of laid back rock style songs - Baby and Livin' in a New World. The latter is probably the most limp track on the album, it's a bit boring when duke sings the chorus like he just woke up. For the emotional piece that is Atonement, is it just me or does it sound like it should of built up slowly to the strings at the end?

Thought's vocals are my main gripe on GT. His delivery was not engaging - rhythmically he machine-gunned that whole mofo with the same tone of voice. Lyrically it's amazing, and were so good on Clocks and Atonement that it even breaks the monotony of the delivery. He's been charismatic and intimate as fuck in the past - check Double Trouble, Without a Doubt, those Notic joints, and Silent treatment.

In comes Rick - check his resume. You really need to listen to the befores and afters. He does the same sort of redux that Dre does without going "gangsta" (see posts above about image), and he always leaves a strong sense of song structure and melodic continuity (missing on GT). Musically, I think he can turn down their habit of effects-drenching and over-layering the tracks (see RHCP, j. cash). I don't think there's much doubt that he could help them recognize more accessible chord progressions to build on that don't need to hide behind all the layers and fx - this seems to be the foundation of his redux style. This in turn will let Riq stand out. Rick seems to be able to consistently pull out amazing, charismatic vocal performances (see Timberlake, jay-z, LL), which I think is most important. They don't need Peedi unless they want Peedi fans - oh wait a minute! lol. Anyways, not that the the Roots necessarily need to go rock, but there is a new generation of rock(rap) fans that have never heard rap(rock), if you know what I mean. Rick is the personification of this crossover. Further, just being able to name check him will help catch the attention of fans outside of the mos/common/talib/badu/slum village/stones throw circle.

When I think Roots+Rick, I think of the immediacy of Without a Doubt, the Web, Double Trouble, lesson, Baby, the seed, Table of Contents 1, silent treatment, what they do, all mixed together with the melodic sensibility of californication.

I've also said the Roots should not care what "we" think, which makes everything I've said straight ass!

Here's to Grammy's,that they may body the whole point of this thead...






  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
tascam villain
Member since May 20th 2003
196 posts
Thu Dec-14-06 02:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
124. "spot on"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

but I think you meant the chords in Don't Feel Right is too much like Adrenaline, not Don't see us. honestly I wasn't sold on the rick rubin idea at first, but after sitting on it for a while it seems like it could be a good change, and change is good.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
jbeez00
Member since Dec 09th 2006
9 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 03:15 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
113. "if you don't have time to listen to all that music"
In response to Reply # 102


          

http://www.digitalprosound.com/Features/Interviews-Discuss/RickRubin.htm

"The more insecure they are, the more they tend to hold onto things that don’t really matter. Before Roy Orbison died, I did a track with him, and he was willing to try anything. Because he knew, no matter what I had him do, it wasn’t going to take away from him being Roy Orbison. Sometimes young artists, or insecure artists, hold onto things that don’t matter because they feel, “This is what makes me ‘me.’” They have this image that some little thing they do makes them what they are. But it doesn’t."
- Rick Rubin

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rzaroch36
Member since Jan 26th 2005
2441 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 12:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
103. "RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin"
In response to Reply # 0


          

nah man the roots are doing just fine. Isn't that why we are all here discussing this in the first place?

Of course, a commercial name attached to something is going to garner more attention but, i trust the roots to make a good album regardless.

but seriously, fuck all that, put George Martin, Rza and Rick Rubin on that son of a bitch, get mad guest rappers doing crazy shit and have like twenty tracks including skits and that would be some roots shit.

No sympathy for the roots at all, but nuff respect-

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

edo
Member since Dec 13th 2006
1 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 11:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
109. "RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I just spotted this thread and thought I'd better comment.

It is a shame that The Roots have never got the credit they deserve in the mainstream, but is that really such a bad thing?

The mainstream hip-hop audience is an impossibly fickle and incredibly conservative beast. Attempt to do anything new, intersting, different or fresh, and people don't want to know. If you have the audacity to -gasp!- use a guitar chord in a track, then yor mainstream hip-hop head flies into an apopleptic fit and complains that the music is "too rock". (I was amused and BEmused by the poster who complained that the last two Roots albums were "too white" - the ignorance of that comment still astounds me as I write this...).

What I'm trying to say in all of this is that you (and I am now addressing the band or any members who post on its behalf), realistically speaking you will never be accepted by the mainstream. But is this a bad thing? A good proportion of the best hip-hop music around today (i.e. some of the artists oft mentioned on this site) never reaches mainstream ears and never will as it fails to conform to the mainstream preoccupation with gangster cliches (ironically, mainstream artists are railroaded in this direction by white record execs, which suggests that it is the cartoon gangsters whose approach is "too white"..).

I'm digressing again, but my point is this; stop trying to chase mainstream acceptance, that elusive "wider audience". In a perfect world, there WOULD be more people appreciating good quality hip-hop as put out by your band, but this is not a perfect world. Be thankful that you at least HAVE a fanbase and that there are people out there who appreciate and love your music FOR WHAT IT IS. Of course, a bit of extra $ to pay for things would be nice but, hey couldn't we all say that?

That being said, it would be interesting to see what Rick Rubin could bring to the table...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
hayes79
Member since Jul 20th 2005
25 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 02:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
111. "RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin"
In response to Reply # 109


          

I hope you guys just keep doing what youre doing because there is no other group/artist that I check for more than yall. You guys are what made me want to create my music and you are what Hip Hop stands for. There is so much that the public, myself included, does not understand about how the music industry works. And there is also a huge amount that we dont understand about how hard it is to stay true to yourself/your music and still make a decent living off of your craft.
It makes me sick to my stomach to even think about The Roots not being signed to a major label with all the support in the world behind em. They deserve everything that has come their way so far.
And I believe that if they stick to the gameplan of making THEIR music under THEIR circumstances that real hip hop will once again step to the forefront and The Roots will be on top.

I can hear the frustration on Quest's voice in his blogs and in the tone of his posts. I know I couldnt begin to put myself in The Roots' shoes, but I will always have them in my heart.

Keep BUYING (ill say it again) BUYING hip hop records that move you. Keep supporting the very people who break their backs, minds, and sometimes pockets to keep their music out in this great world of ours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

stange_fruit
Member since Dec 08th 2006
10 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 03:57 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
114. "RE: The Roots Need Rick Rubin"
In response to Reply # 0


          

why.why would you want everyone to like the roots?im not saying i want them to be unsuccessfull,but to have them at the top of the charts,that would mean the music would be overplayed,and we dont need that.theyre amazing as they are now,nothings gonna ever change that.there will always be haters,always.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

rons1ne
Member since Nov 02nd 2004
1554 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 04:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
115. "The Roots Need Steve Stoute..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Dec-13-06 04:40 PM by rons1ne

  

          

i understand that i may have some people on board with me, some very against this, but why not hook up with Steve Stout?

Jay-Z + Reebok

JT + McD's

Beyonce + Tommy

Stefani + HP (I'm sure he had a hand with the Jigga and Pharrell commercials, too...imagine ?uesto uploading his video blogs, digitally organizing his 50,000+ record collection, updating Okayplayer...although i'm sure ?uest has an affinity to Apple since he is a serato master)

The music is there, we all know this. Some us will like the same, some won't. At the end of the day we can agree to disagree. But musically, vocally, sonically...the Roots have IT.

They just need a little help exposure wise, and I think Steve is the man who can do it.

A ?uest x Scion commercial:

First, you see some dj's loading a big ass truck with DJ equipment...amp, speakers, lights, turntables...6 dudes.

Pan to ?uest, just a laptop, all over print hoodie and greedy genius kicks...shakes his head in disappoint at the other guys, steps into his scion and bounces out.

thats the legendary.




  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
stange_fruit
Member since Dec 08th 2006
10 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 06:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
119. "RE: The Roots Need Steve Stoute..."
In response to Reply # 115


          

Can someone please tell me why they need to work with anyone?Are you all that fickle?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
rons1ne
Member since Nov 02nd 2004
1554 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 07:11 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
120. "some people have expertise in areas individuals lack..."
In response to Reply # 119


  

          

thats why actors and sports personalities have agents. and if you hook up with the right agent, the right things happen - lucrative contracts and maximum exposure.

that is what the crew needs right now. the music is there, they just need some assistance to attract and reach a broad audience without jepordizing their core fanbase. i personally think they haven't jepordized their core fanbase but i think they have opportunity to reach a broad audience in the US.

i heard of ?uest saying he had an agent, but wasn't sure if he was serious or not.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

sun_das_ill
Member since Nov 29th 2002
11308 posts
Wed Dec-13-06 08:09 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
122. "SHUT THAT SHIT UP!!! HOW BOUT YOU BUY SOME MORE COPIES!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'M A TELL YOU WHAT I'M GONNA DO,I'M A BUY LIKE 3-4-5 COPIES AND FLING THE FUCK OUT THEM SHITS OFF THE BROOKLYN BRIDGE!!! MAYBE THAT 200K NEED TO DO THE SAME SO THEY CAN ATLEAST GO GOLD THIS YEAR!!!!

http://sundasill.tumblr.com/

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Caveman23
Member since Feb 24th 2004
873 posts
Wed Jan-03-07 06:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
127. "no album-->>BUZZ BUILDING SIDE-PROJECT TIME"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

the Roots don't really need a new album right now. I mean, people would take it & certain fans would cherish it, but are the general public really clamoring for the next Roots album right now yet?? Nah,--they just got one that they haven't even picked up, & don't seem like they'll care to anytime real soon yet. Not even the critics/trendsetters really wanta pick up on it disregarding as nice as the album actually is...
SO,--don't just throw another album at them with a slightly different presentation scheme & think that's gonna make it change.

Take it for what it's worth & do what's necesarry ta make them WANT another. & ensure they'll pay attention that time.

just take a quick but pointed break & EVERYBODY tryta do some heavily exciting SIDE-PROJECTS ta get people buzzed up about yall again. There's 6 people in the group,--they don't even ALL need ta release things unless they're exciting but 6 is a LOOOT of options for branching out till a few catch flame.
•Kamal can get his Scott Storch on trying producing for other people, get him on a couple NAME projects so that people can give a fuck about him all the sudden.
•?uestlove exec-ed BIG-TIME MAJOR LABEL CLASSICS from other artists on the market again, which as well ushers in a tied-in-"MOVEMENT" that reflects back upon ?uestlove/Roots & makes them look more valuable... Like whatever a new equivalent ta Neo-Soul type Movement might be but more for Hiphop this time. Especially help Talib/Jean/BLACKSMITH become leaders of a Movement, & be heavily involved & buzzed about as such...
•Thought & DangerMouse (BlackMouse?/BlackDanger?/DangerousThoughts?) is already going down right, & by faaaarrr has the first real potential looking at Danger's previous path... hipsters & critics & tastemakers & maybe even the masses fall for him... Also for letting Black Thought develop as more of a clear name & fanbase besides just in the group.
•then maybe Thought AGAIN but fully solo this time, or with Scott Storch (!!!), bridging him much quicker towards more of the mainstream branding...

let them have tastes of the Roots flavor but successful on their own so that the public's mouths can start watering, & at the same time have them be experimental enough from the "Roots" work that AFTERWARDS people can clamor bout wanting the Roots ta bring THEIR thing again.



BY THAT TIME the direction yall'll want ta go with it will be that much clearer & easier followed, plus any new creative-tensions from developing independently from each other should help steer that whatever it'll be...

__________
still waiting:
•Killer Mike--16 In The Kitchen
•SA-RA--Black Fuzz
•Jay Electronica--Act II
•3 Stacks solo//Goodie MoB.--Black History//'Kast--10 The Hardway//...
•Madvillain:2//Ghost+DOOM//...
•**** a Detox

  

Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Lobby Okayplayer News Discussion Okay Artist Archives topic #39059 Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.25
Copyright © DCScripts.com