BLACK THOUGHT SOON WILL BE STARRING IN BROOKLYN BABYLON--IN SOME INTERRACIAL DRAMA--DAMN RIGHT WHEN "BLACK THOUGHTS" GET WATERED DOWN WITH INTERRACIAL SCHEMES WE ALL LOSE. SERIOUSLY, I WAS CONFUSED THIS IS THE BLACK ASS BROTHAS FIRST MAJOR SCREEN SHIT AND HE CHOOSE TO REPRESENT LIKE MOST WEAK-ASS BROTHAS--TRIPING OVER SOME STRINGY HAIR (I AM NOT LYING THEIR HAIR IS STRINGY!) PALE FACE SEDUCER! TYPICAL--TYPICAL.

What are you trying to do? Start another okaywar? We don't need that ignorant trash on here.<P>Peace

the reason this generation is called x (in my opinion) is due to the fact that we have no focus and no agenda. fact all forms of musical expression in the u.s is afican (american) origin. <BR>we gave birth to musical expression (hue-man form). music has and emotional and spiritual tone to our existence. prior to this generation our musical expression in this country was attached to some type of struggle or repositioning. ex. "capitive spirituals" during physical slavery and 1920'ish to 40ish garveryism had a profound impact on the harlem ren. black power movement and student movement had a profound impact on musical expression during that time.even "so called trendy artist" were sliding in political issues in their music. point being in this venomus times i search long and in between trying to find artist who choose to have a political and emotional tone in their music. africans in this country still face the same obstacles and enemies that our ancestors faced--and white skin priviledge is still a reality, negative images of aficans still flood the air waves--even if caucasians are wearing corn rolls--and for BLACK THOUGHT to play a rasta who falls for a non-african women in 1999 is so typical--true dat he is acting--but he is so cautions about who he aligns with musically and the image he protrays--why not hold them same standards in film-every expression is an expression-we as a people have to be very careful of what we parade in front of us. and i am sick and tired of all yall screaming peace--if all yall really was about peace--there would be peace. still on posvibes even when the truth hurts! and why when some one calls out a racial characteristic everyone "get uneasy" am i wrong if i say more africans have thick full lips like tariq?<P>less stress

You might've gotten a better response.<P>I'm kinda curious about the point & purpose of this movie, who's behind it, the director and how it'll portray the disturbances & the black people of the community. Blacks in Crown Heights still haven't shaken off the misinformation delivered by the media about the "riots", and I don't think the murdered children ever received justice or even attention due (though you frequently hear about Yankel Rosenbaum). <P>As far as the interracial theme (if my understanding of the plot & subject of the film is correct), I doubt the movie would've gotten made if it were about a black couple in the midst of a black/eurojew conflict...I mean picture that. I'm not sure why Tariq choose to debut in this film but I can only assume that he's comfortable with the what he's doing and the tone of the movie. <P>People do like to front though like you shouldn't question the point of this interracial relationship but I have a sneaky suspicion that if this was a homosexual relationship being discussed most of them would be like "why, Tariq??!!". <P>Anyway, you might want to check the archives & Quest's post and subsequent discussion about the West Indian Parade.

>Blacks in Crown Heights still haven't shaken off the misinformation delivered by >the media about the "riots"<P>I was caught in the middle of the riot* and I don't understand why people get upset or say that it wasn't a riot! Peole were acting in a manner that wasn't called for! They were throwing shit at EVERYBODY! If they were mad at the police,etc...throw shit at the police,etc...not at the people trying to go to work!!!<P>Peace2U,<BR>Re Alief<P>* <BR>VIOLENT public DISORDER engaged in by a number of persons.<BR>UNRESTRAINED behaviour, display, or growth.<P>

Peace2U

The "rioting" wasn't only on the part of the west indians - that's what I meant by misinformation. The media portrayed it as blacks attacking jews, when that wasn't the case. Both groups were attacking each other.

My friend I believe you are the one who may be a bit neive. You assume you already know what the film is exactly about. From everyone's understanding it is a "racially charged drama". Now with out seeing the film, knowing which aspects of racism it touches on, what issues the film does indeed tackle, or know the outcome of the film is a bit neive to say that the role is "typical". I also believe by following your little formula you are putting barriers on black film(which handcuffs a culture historically shown to be innovative in artistic expression). To say that we can not do stories that involve people from other walks of life. I think the last thing we want to do to our "impressionable youth" is instill the attitude of sepratism. If we at all want to change the reflection of america in terms of ethnic equality we've definately got to show the youth what we've been through, but present reality based media (films) with time relavence to our current place in time that present life accuratly(if that is the purpose of that particular film). I jusy felt I saw a case of the pot calling the kettle black. peace, Apostle <P><P><BR>"I'm cooler than a blizzard...nigga what???" Black Thought<P><P><P><P><BR>"I promise that I will not answer the phone when it rings love, while we do our thing love" Q-Tip<BR>

http://twitter.com/jahbryllionaire

DROkayplayer™

The thing is how are we ever to trully disect race and its implications if we continually keep the "conversation" a homogenous one? Black people talk about race all the time. Every step and breath we take we feel race on some level so we are more inclined to make it a natural point of conversation. White people for the most part stray from everyday conversation and more importantly examinations of race. <P>There is theory that the greatest problem of race and the "color line" is that every race and hue has been examened (cf. all the US Census' since the first one - the only racial category that is unchanged since the early 1800's is "White") and disected but whiteness. Hence, there is a comfort and relative racial silence in just sticking within the bastians of whiteness. If you are in the midwest or most cities and towns across the nation you rarely have to deal with race or color because most people around you look like you.<P>To make this shorter, my point is that if we don't involve whites into racial discussions and disections we won't get very far. Movies such as this where racial relationships are looked at are greatly needed. Race is not a black or "of color" issue and until we make that clear universally there will be no progress. When we make race and racial issues solely a black or "of color" issue then it stays as something viewed as as "their problem" and nothing is trully done about it.<P>Not to mention that the setting for the movie is Crown Heights Brooklyn the place of past racial riots. I don't know where you are from but New Yorkers know the kind of intense feelings surround that neighborhood. Do some research, a movie that depicts Crown Heights and the tensions between blacks and jews is not only needed but should be demanded.<P>I give much respect and props to Thought for being involved. Cause the "system" is what taught us to only look at the surface - stringy hair - and not at what is real (do the research)<P>Peace. And forgive the typos et. al. it has been a long night of papers.<P>"And even after all my logic and theory, I add a motherf*cker so you ign't niggas hear me" - L-Boogie

It's just a role...IT'S ACTING...and if he tackles it well and brings something enlightening to the role of a black man that is attracted to a white woman then I think he's done his job. And besides that, I'm sure his character is deeper than simply that one aspect. And again, it's just acting...it doesn't mean Black Thought loves white girls. Peace.<P>Respectfully,<P>Crossfaded<P>"If you can't laugh at yourself then you take yourself too serious" -- Crossfaded<P>"We are hip-hop...me, you, everybody...so the next time you ask yourself, 'Where is hip-hop going?', stop and ask yourself, 'Where am I going?'" -- Mos Def<P>"I like the long legs, fat asses, and the big big breasteses" -- Styles of Mountain Brothers

AIM: mke1978<P>"L'actualité régionale: c'est vous qui la vivez, c'est nous qui en vivons"<BR>In English:<BR>"Local news: you live it, we live off it"<BR>- Jules-Edouard Moustic, 20H20<P>"I'm spittin' lies/But she's none the wise"<BR> - Roots Manuva (check the fantastic album "Brand New Second Hand")<P><P>

yo mos def i am feeling that roots manuva "brandnew secondhand" any ways i hope you were not quoting him to support your view against what i said. brotha man definte represents artists who choose compromise for the green or in his case brown.

so funny that your name is meant to mean "positive vibes" wow. hmmmmmm y'all feel that?<P><P><P><P><BR>"....start your own company??!? your parents don't have enough money to buy you a company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

I was thinking the same thing.

quite inconspicuously controversial indeed...

there comes a time in every mans life when he's gotta handle shit up on his own Can't depend on friends to help you in a squeeze, please they got problems of their own---slim kid3

question the attribute huh? refer to my reply to the gump who wanted to slap me! i could image his sexual vibe sm????maybe--any ways if i said amerikkka would sell you shit for a profit--is that positive of negative--depends on were ya sitting partner. refer to krs-1 blue print peace anit soft--and everything that is positive for you -you might not want. i stand behind my opinion that the role is typical and he could of held out for a more positve role to parade infront of our impressional youths.<P>less stress

yeah! and are you trying to copy my name or something?<P><P><P>ok now back to the conversation<BR>peace-<BR>goodvibez

HoMeBrO SaYs who gives a rats ass, unless the story,concept and movie suck like monkey crap.<P>Let's see you even come close to what black thought has been able to do. Get your lazy ass off these boards and maybe you'd be a star.<P>(start your own record label, oh wait you parents can't afford one!!!!) copyright infringement, questlove<P><P><P><BR>

it's the motherfucking LATE 90's...just about a month away from 2000 and ignorant people are still talking about interracial shit like it really makes a difference. We're all God's children. I'm Puerto Rican and my current girlfriend is Irish and Filipina and I care about her a lot. My past girlfriends have been Puerto Rican, Mexican, and Black. Color doesn't matter to me. Color shouldn't matter at all in ANY circumstance.<P>"ILLWILSON got me into that Roots show thingy, and tells me about his sexcapades on the IM chat. Yaaaaay Will."- Dr Squeegie (XM)<P>"never disrespect women cause I love my momma" Talib Kweli<P>DO YASELF A DAMN FAVOR AND BUY THE JAZZYFATNASTEES ALBUM 'THE ONCE AND FUTURE' IN STORES NOW!!!!!!

i'm back...?

We all bleed red...and are essentially cut from the same cloth. Love is love, baby...be it Puerto Rican Will lovin' his Irish, Filipino lady or me, a Black woman, lovin' my Puerto Rican man...so POSVIBES...does that make Will and I wrong, too?<P>Kristy<P>Go eat a Manwich, bee-ach!! -- me<P>"...it's just a website..." -- us<P>

We all wrong?? I'm white, my girl's black...she actually cares about my personality more than my "stringy" hair- hard to believe, huh?<BR>--res-one--><BR>peace, okayplayers...<P>"symbolize dope, like sirens do terror"- common sense<P>"so what? you carry hot glocks and rocks, so what? that type of rap is #1 on the charts, so what? your video is on MTV, you still ain't an emcee to me"- Krumb Snatcha<P>FREE MUMIA<BR><a href="http://www.mumia.org">http://www.mumia.org<;/a><BR><a href="http://www.thehungersite.com">http://www.thehungersite.com<;/a>

-----------------------

<BR>wait, explain to me,<P>your upset cuz black thought is doing a movie that is interracial. your also upset because hes a black brother doing the typical "TRIPING OVER SOME STRINGY HAIR (I AM NOT LYING THEIR HAIR IS STRINGY!) PALE FACE SEDUCER!" as in he falls for a white person??? is that what you are saying???<P>cuz if it is, that is a very, how should i say it, DISGUSTING, IGNORANT, INSENSITIVE, STUPID comment. if thats not what you are saying, please tell me.<P>the world is a rainbow...- i forgot who said it but i know everyone sings this song in elementary school<P><P>thats what u get for clowning me in the chat room!- quest<P>jillenium???j2k???wthell???- me

Ew! What kind of vibes are those? <BR>Tariq's acting skillz are not the problem here. It's your attitude! (anyone peep that old UTFO/Full Force remix) Thought is one of the kindest people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, and as much pure LOVE as he gives to black women I cannot believe you would question his integrity or his values. It's really none of your dayum business.<BR>Just FYI oh brilliant one, I'm pale as a peach and I have the nappiest blonde hair you ever got your fingers tangled in. Don't stereotype - it's very unbecoming... <img src="http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/Images/wink.gif"><BR>Dove<P>Support Bacteria - It's the only culture some people have!

http://UrbLife.com
http://twitter.com/FlyLikeDove
http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
http://Facebook.com/FlyLikeDove
http://flylikedove.contently.com

"Word, cuz when you say you love me, it doesn't matter, I never take it serious bitch and laugh at ya..."<BR>-Baatin<P>"Now back to the topic of, the rap philosopher, with more drama than a soap opera..."<BR>-Malik B<P>"You're very intelligent! I predict you'll kill."<BR>-some cat on Win Ben Stein's money

The world may never know.... <img src="http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/Images/wink.gif"><P><BR>Support Bacteria - It's the only culture some people have!<P>"If you can't be good, at least be good at it!" Some Smart Muthafucka<P>

http://UrbLife.com
http://twitter.com/FlyLikeDove
http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
http://Facebook.com/FlyLikeDove
http://flylikedove.contently.com

AIM: mke1978<P>"L'actualité régionale: c'est vous qui la vivez, c'est nous qui en vivons"<BR>In English:<BR>"Local news: you live it, we live off it"<BR>- Jules-Edouard Moustic, 20H20<P>"I'm spittin' lies/But she's none the wise"<BR> - Roots Manuva (check the fantastic album "Brand New Second Hand")<P><P>

<BR>Uh posvibes.....<BR>the proctologist called...<BR>they found your head...<P>

How dare you judge love. I don't know what your beliefs are (in God, etc) but don't even try to simplify life and love into simple black and white. I feel very strongly about these two things and I promise you, there is more beauty in the world than you can imagine if you can find it in yourself to look past futile things and see everybody and everything for what they are and the potential for good that they have. Until every stringy hair white woman does something to you personally you disagree with, please show some respect. All of your little music history didn't really prove any point either because love is about more than african art form and white hegemony. Both are small things in the larger scheme of things. I hope/pray that you can wake up some day and realize that everybody, regardless of color, has something to offer and that by pre-judging other people for any reason you are only robbing yourself of an opportunity to grow and become enlightened. What more could life be about? We're all trying to figure ourselves and life out and who do we learn from best?? Each other. When you open yourself up to all people from all cultures, you'll find happiness and really learn who you are and what you believe. Stay in your shell and your the missing out, player. <P>VIS<P>"I'd rather stimulate your mind than emulate your purpose."---ACEYALONE

<BR> That's what it sounded like....the swarm of the angry-mob...Listen, while I may not agree with the delivery...there was still a valid message there. Sister was tired of the old interracial motif.....its been done.....it is a tool of the movie making machine and hers was a cry out for seeing Thought (the artist and the black man ) caught up in some hollywood ish..<P> (personally, I'm gonna with hold comment until I see da flick) <P> As for the racial commentary.....the knee-jerk reactions reflect just how much of a "happy family" we all are....listen we all want to believe that this is a tasty little melting pot...no one stops to consider the recipe....or better yet who's stirring....we have a long way to go people....a lot longer than we want to believe....<BR> It took a looooong time to f%@# this up. We better be prepared for a long walk home. We are not a gonna become a colorless, classless society overnight no matter how cool it would be. <BR>

ok(player)it's like this...(woo that was corny)...anyway, many of you don't know me but i've posted here a few times. i'm a skinny white kid. that's really all you need to know. anyway(again)...my personal philosophy (although i don't necessarily practice it) is that if everyone just married interracially and had lots of kids eventually there'd just be one big race of medium skin toned brown eyed brown haired people. and then there'd be no racism. of course it's idealistic but it's fun isn't it? me, i love a filipina girl. is that SO wrong? bye

mos-def let me insure that i respond as if i have been trained in european schools "educated" due to the fact when i followed up my original message with a more educated response--more tended to ingage in more indepth discussion. okay--hmmm love is color blind---honestly you remind me of the passive missionaries that always proceed massive genocide through-out history and even today. and if you are asking me if i believe in "the west" conception of god-? all of the west colonies were so-called blessed by their god--they will have their bible in one hand and their sword in the other. now this "so called love story" takes place in a racially tense setting. and once again the historical problems are solved in the bed?? and thats not typical. and the issue of "black versus white" is not an individual issue. i don't consider "ms white woman" 20 miles away from me as a threat--but i would be a fool to ignore the historical relationship and her white skin priviledge and my triple oppression! and even in a larger scale the world---european exploitation of non-european people and lands. and i too admire nature with marvel and basically very peaceful--am i peace when i support (involuntary taxes) a country who is known for rape, murder, terrorists and extortion through-out the world? i do believe that you are being sincere in what you feel--but don't let your philosophies blind you to social realities!<P>stimulate life and matter...digable planets<P>less stress

If you want to come with an educated response learn to spell engage.... not ingage. Another thing is, how can you ask us to respect your opinion when you are coming with a racist tone(stringy hair, seducer)? You are not one to make a judgement on this issue. You only made yourself look ignorant by posting this in the first place. If thats what you think then keep it to yourself. And about the movie, this seems to be alot more than your typical "jungle fever" flick. You can't be so quick to judge Black Thought.

just wondering...<BR>I understand your frustrations on one hand sister.<BR>On another hand, if it bothers you that much, just don't go see it. On a third hand, it it continues to bother you to the point that you can't sleep and that your are swalking through your house in your PJ's looking for sheep. Don't go to okayplayer.com anymore.<BR>My grandma's light skin, her hair is stringy, do she seduce my grandfather?????????????<P>I'm a christian am I brainwashed????????<BR>The only people I know who think christianity is a white man's religion, are white people, and those who believe and accept what white people say as truth. Which are you??????????????????<BR>Are you muslim?????????? Do you practice traditional african religion???? Both of those groups sold us to the so called white christians. Do you hate them too?????????????????<P>I love everybody, even Tariq, even you, even the stringy hair babylonian.<BR>The banana speaks.

may this be the end of this post

i decided to address this reply due to the fact that she began honestly with she too feel my frustration. she asked me to reveal my feelings about certain issues. i am holding my goddess daughter as we speak and she is as about as "light before white" a person can get and her hair is very stringy(who i love sincerely and unconditionally). i will restate i have no "taboo" feelings about calling out racial characteristics. for example more africans in america have full lucious lips like tariq (black thought). and honestly if you live amongst african "americans" you have to have witness that in our culture you will still see today on the brink of 2000-we suffer from slavery back lash of light skin being more appealing. a dis like for kinky hair and african features. so your grandmother and grandfather issue i would have to experience on an individual level--and like with this movie i am not viewing tariq in an isolated situation but in a historical light and a world of negative propaganda that my people have to address every second from schools to home to media. and yes i am very aware of africa's dirty hand in our enslavement. and choose not to hate but to understand! (which does not mean to agree!)<BR>and i was not referring to christianity as a european origin but as a symbol of how religion and genocide complimented european domination. and i support okay player because this was some innovatived hiphop shit. and if we choose not to adrress these issues (hiphop culture) then who should! and do not limited my discussions as "racial hate" i never once use that word! <P><BR>less stress<BR>hiphop culture 4 life!<P>

imitates life and this is just another example of this. It seems like you're kinda angry that black men date white women but I'm not saying you are. Like I said, if he brings something to the role that hasn't been seen before then he's done his job and transcended the typical "black man in love with a white woman" role. I know this may sound ridiculous but I sort of take an evolutionary look to interraciality (I don't think that's a word...who cares). If "white" characteristics are genetically recessive and "black" ones are genetically dominant...then interracial dating can be seen as evolutionary advancement. If a black guy has a child with a white woman, the interracial child has more dominant genes than if it were simply a white child. When this interracial child matures...if it has children with another interracial child (who has matured) then their offspring are even MORE likely to have dominant genes. And the trend goes on and on...you get the idea. Now, if black men are off coupling with white women, it makes sense that eventually black women will begin to pair up and have children with white men...thus, eventually eliminating the white male's genes. This takes thousands of years of course but the point is that recessive genes lose out to dominant ones. It's evolution. Now I'm no geneticist so don't think that I think I'm 100% accurate but, this seems to be the way these things work. And I know I haven't taken into account lighter skinned races but the same thing goes with them...eventually all recessiveness is erased...with time. I hope you understand my point here. Peace.<P>Respectfully,<P>Crossfaded<P>"If you can't laugh at yourself then you take yourself too serious" -- Crossfaded<P>"We are hip-hop...me, you, everybody...so the next time you ask yourself, 'Where is hip-hop going?', stop and ask yourself, 'Where am I going?'" -- Mos Def<P>"I like the long legs, fat asses, and the big big breasteses" -- Styles of Mountain Brothers

And new recessiveness pop up over time, I guess. <P>Its funny because I had the same thoughts, of how Black people could co-opt the white race, assimilate them like the Borg. I find that quite funny and ironic. I'm probably going to be doing some assimilating myself (long-time white girl-friend).<P>I can't believe I'm posting to this thread again, but it seems to have gotten slightly more intelligent than at its origin. Altho posvibes is still being an idiot. Oh well.<P>Note to pos: don't try to impress with your approximate, generalised, vague, pseudo-history.<P>AIM: mke1978<P>"L'actualité régionale: c'est vous qui la vivez, c'est nous qui en vivons"<BR>In English:<BR>"Local news: you live it, we live off it"<BR>- Jules-Edouard Moustic, 20H20<P>"I'm spittin' lies/But she's none the wise"<BR> - Roots Manuva (check the fantastic album "Brand New Second Hand")<P><P>

that it doesn't mean better. I was just trying to explain that maybe this "rash" of "shocking" interracial coupling is all in the Darwinian master plan. You feel me. I've also thought about that whole black=borg thing...being a white male I can accept it. By the time it truly takes effect (if that's even what happens) I will be long gone. Besides, I help the trend, like yourself. I usually only date black women. Peace.<P>Respectfully,<P>Crossfaded<P>"If you can't laugh at yourself then you take yourself too serious" -- Crossfaded<P>"We are hip-hop...me, you, everybody...so the next time you ask yourself, 'Where is hip-hop going?', stop and ask yourself, 'Where am I going?'" -- Mos Def<P>"I like the long legs, fat asses, and the big big breasteses" -- Styles of Mountain Brothers

Peace pos,<P>I feel you 100 percent. A lot of people take what they have been taught all their lives for face value. Not everyone is intelligent enough to question a wicked system that has lied and caused harm since day one. We become comfortable with the lives we THINK we are happy with. Not everyone takes initiative to research or seek for themselves. This is why issues such as this piss people off. It makes us look deep within ourselves and answer and ask questions we may not want to addess. Because when you are aware or enlightened with self knowledge...you become responsible for your bretheren. WHEN WILL WE TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND CLEAN UP THE MESS OUR ANCESTORS HAVE LEFT....IF NOT, YOU BETTER BELIEVE WE WILL NEVER STOP SUFFERING...WHAT HAVE WE DONE TO DESERVE NOT TO SUFFER??? OUR GENERATION HAS MADE NO COLLECTIVE, AND NECESSARY MOVES TO CHANGE OUR CONDITION. I POSTED A RESPONSE TO THIS EARLIER, CHECK IT OUT.....<P>NO JUSTICE....NO PEACE<P>SANIFU<P>"Critics and Bitters don't know<BR> Don't know where my source of light is<BR> Still leave arthurs and writers with arthritis..." -Rakim Allah, It's Been A Long Time<P>"I'm a fucking artist, Don't play me like a groupie!!! I'm talkin' about this song, you got your mind on my booty!!" - Me, Booty Shots

Personally, I have to give pos props for voicing her ( I'm assumming) opinion. A lot of people on here are really quick to diss people when they are not speaking "politically correct" without examining or questioning what the person is saying. I think that the post could have been bettered worded but inevitable after pos broke down the post in the second reply she brought up some valid points. <BR>Personally, it amazes me how so many people are quick to make judgement calls and label people racists without examining our society. What prompts people of color to have these type of opinions is it out of ignorance or is it from experiences. Why are we over comsumed with race while everyone else is screaming the human race is all we need. I think issues like this is a reality and if you have never experienced it or been confronted then you too maybe ignorant. <BR>A lot of the paranio is justified. More and more you see less positive representation of black people (especially in tv and film) in different aspects. I think pos makes a valid point about how society is so quick to downplay blacks and it's becoming atypical.... anyway, I got a lot going on in my head so peace...<BR>kec<P>" I don't like it when my post sink to the bottom" mikaela_h<BR> <BR>"What the fuck is a kec?" some dude<P> " Friendship is built on trust not time, so it doesn't matter how long you have known someone physically." <BR> Talib Kweli of BlackStar

http://illkec.wordpress.com/

I can't even lie, i felt what you were saying and loved how you held your ground. Sometimes i let my own frustrations come out too fast were it's intentions are to sting but also stimulate. Sometimes you gotta throw rocks to attract attention.<P>kevb

of the over-all response to this disgusting, hateful, and ignorant post. it shows that the okayplayers, as a whole, are an intelligent bunch of people, not swayed by someone's archaic views of racial superiority.

i really do enjoy replying to things like this... i'm just sighing 'cause it's depressing that people still have such a hard time seeing interracial marriages in movies/real life. it does indeed sound like posvibes has a problem with miscegenation, and that's sad. this is we're near the end of the twentieth century (new century really starts 1.1.01)... and we've still got folx all riled up over an ebony chico with an ivory chica? ...tha's sad, peops... but what can ya expect, eh?<BR>...and i find it a bit hard to take the following ish without offense:<BR>HE CHOOSE TO REPRESENT LIKE MOST WEAK-ASS BROTHAS--TRIPING OVER SOME STRINGY HAIR<P>yo, i'm sorry... i am a strong black male, okay? ...i am attracted to women of all creeds, colors, and all that ish, okay??!! i said this shit before when some okayidiot posted some ish against interracial relationships before. i am not "seduced" by white women...i don't see their pale skin as some mark of status... and at the same time, i am not "seduced" by black women... and i don't see their dark skin as an automatic mark of beauty. i judge on an individual basis. if a white girl steals my heart, then i'm with a white girl... if it's a sista... then i'm with a sista... if it's a latina chica, asi pues, soy con una chica latina... french girls, indian girls, pakistani, israeli, african... shit, man, fuckin' martian chicks... if they're hot... i'm sweatin' 'em... okay?<BR>and for thought to be portrayin' a brotha hooked on some white chick? ...well... tha's his choice... i mean... it's just a movie, y'know... don't view it as a hidden hollywood agenda... view it as two people in love on screen who happen to be in posession of differing quantities of melanin. it happens in real life... why be so upset when it happens on the screen?<P>oh yeah... and "black genes" aren't "dominant" over white ones... as far as skin-tone goes, they're co-dominant, i think... if they were dominant, then the baby'd come out the same tone as the black parent, not somewhere in between the two skin tones... so, if miscegenation were to continue (as it will) we'd eventually see not the emergence of african americans as the dominant race in this country... but rather we'd witness the beginnings of the "ethnic american"... a mixture of all the races... probably with a skin tone around the shade of tamia ("put a move on my heart") and with features that make 'em ethnically ambiguous... and it'll probably happen. i personally think it'd be rather cool... <BR>...lol... and i found the "racist" remark to be funny... it really just shows your contempt for racial mixing... which is rather sad. i'm not mad at you, i just hope you'll open your eyes.<BR>there's nothing wrong with building with someone of another color <P>-koan, the philosopher king<P>"without awareness, there is no life... only activity"

~~~~~

SHIIIT!!!!<P>Excuse that family but, this is my 2cd time atempting to respond when I was just cut off!!!! I had some shit for ya'll too!!! ANyway, let's try it again;<P>Why is everyone coming down on posvibes when he has possed a ligit question? The problem is that because he called Tariq out on a rather sensiive issue, people are trippin and acting like this was not bound to come up!! First of all, if you speak words that encourage blck unity, self love and preservation, then by all means YOU SHOULD LIVE UP TO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!! Living in the lime light, you must be prepared to be question for just about every career and PERSONAL move you make....too bad...that is the business, get over it. Second, black people will never get anywhere if we are so quick to compromise our personal values and beliefs for what this world deems as "ART". Who are you trying to impress...better yet, who's approval are you seeking? What are you trying to accomplish (besides cash...the root of all evil) by doing such a thing? It is time for our people to be responsible enough to start having more consideration for our ancestors and all the blood shed on this land for US to make a change for thebetter of SELF!!!!!!!!! We are so afraid to accept truth and true knowledge of self which will not allow you to do such a thing. It is deeper that planet Earth and the "heavenly" things you can have here...but it is all temporayr...like flesh. I AM NOT A RACIST!!! But I recognize the crisis of my nation....and as a called and chosen soldier for justice, I LIVE MY LIFE MAKING DIFFERENCES IN THE MINDS OF BLACK/BROWN PEOPLE...or any oppressed person for that matter. MY priority is my people. SELF PRESERVATOIN means preserving not only your physical self...but our seeds as well, that means the scrotum sac for mean and the eggs of the women. The fact that we are the first beings to walk this planet has become such a burden on our minds that it seems you were better off NOT knowing!!!!! This has gone wayyyy to another level simply because there is no simple or ONE level when race issues are concerned. THERE IS ABSOULUTLEY NOTHING WRONG with staying amongst like ones....if it was so right, why were we punished in the biblical times??? And that bull shit about "NEW TESTAMENT" NEEDS TO STOP!!!! WHO IN THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE TO SAY THEY HAVE BEEN "INSPIRED" BY GOD TO MAKE THESE CHANGES OR WRITE THESE WORDS TO ACCOMODATE THEIR OWN VIEWS!!! Anyway, the point i s this, posvibes was not out of place for what he posted, I agree that maybe he could have worded it better, but I am not one to talk. I probably want to say more on this subject...but I gott go to lunch now!!!!<P>Peace and LOVE!!!!!! <img src="http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/Images/wink.gif"><P>M./sanifu <P>"Critics and Bitters don't know<BR> Don't know where my source of light is<BR> Still leave arthurs and writers with arthritis..." -Rakim Allah, It's Been A Long Time<P>"I'm a fucking artist, Don't play me like a groupie!!! I'm talkin' about this song, you got your mind on my booty!!" - Me, Booty Shots

Second, black people will never <BR>>get anywhere if we are so <BR>>quick to compromise our personal values <BR>>and beliefs for what this world <BR>>deems as "ART".<P><P>If Tariq's personal values are compromised by playing a man who dates a white woman, then he's a racist. Plain as that. That's why I'm sure his values weren't compromised. How DARE you pass judgement on a man for being in an interracial relationship. Shit, he ain't even in one, he's just in a fucking movie.<P>I must ask you this. Would you ever date a white man? Any non-black man?<P>As a mixture of latino, white, American Indian and a little bit of Chinese, I would not be here were it not for my ancestors doin' the interracial nasty. Take it back far enough and I am European, African, American Indian, Asian, and probably some Philipino or Pacific Islander too. I happen to be doing something interracial no matter who I get with. Shit, I could fuck my sister and it would be interracial. What do you think about that? Should I just not fuck anyone at all? And if you think there's something wrong with a relationship because it's a black man and a white woman, FUCK YOU! If I could have made that any bolder, I would have. If you say you're not racist, you're defining the word wrong, because you are. This shit flat-out offends me.<P>On a less angry note, reverse racism accomplishes nothing but more hate. If the status-quo upsets you, I don't blame you. It's fucked up. It is. But imagine the status quo with one small change: that every black resents interracial relationships the way you do. It's not a better world that way, for blacks, whites, or fucked up little muts like me.<P>P.S. The KuKluxKlan feels the same way on this topic as you do. You need to think about it a little more.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
giving you true posts since 1999 - effa charter member

"I can assure you, we won't be putting money into a society which is not transparent and corrupt."
-George W Bush

I don't even know where to start....HOW DARE YOU even go THERE with me. I could go all the way south on you...but you are not worth the energy or intellectual expertise. You do not know me...because I can be honest and say I have no attraction to European men???? Even if I saw one that was attractive, so what? Should I go jump his bones to prove a point to imbeciles like you or just confirm the bogas stereotypes most non-black men have of black men....peep what I said "MOST"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Second, you sound just as confused and mixed up as your genetic pool....you need to get a fucking grip and learn how to be really secure within your own self and heritage. It's usually people like you with their own complexes and identity crisis that lash out as ignorant as you have done. Not once did I pass judgement on Tariq, nor did I say ANYTHING that any mature person would have taken offense to. This is the primary reason why we will never get anywhere with the issue of race, most non-black people and even blacks want to act like this is not only a major issue...but the function of this world revolves around this. ANd another thing, don't ever in your life put me in the same sentence as the fucking KLAN!!!! That is bunch of ignorant, miseducated low lives who has no REAL reason to hate...except for the fact they KNOW our true potential and what and who we are. I have every right to be pissed off looking at what I have come from to where I am now...where my people are now. You could NEVER understand the hurt, pain, trials and tribulations of a BLACK MAN OR WOMAN!!!!! SO do not go there and tell me to re-think how I feel....on accords of who????? Your ignorant self???? You are the fucked and confused one to think RACE does not matter. Do you really think all these races resulted from a GOD who decided he wanted a rainbow?????????? Get a damn grip. That is what we would like to think to avoid responsibility of making a change. There is a cause and effect for everything that occurs withgin this universe that all goes back to a scientific explanation!!!!! So you do math PAHTNAH!!!!!!<P>KNOWLEDGE REIGNS SUPREME!!!!!!!!!!!<P>Mel<P>"Critics and Bitters don't know<BR> Don't know where my source of light is<BR> Still leave arthurs and writers with arthritis..." -Rakim Allah, It's Been A Long Time<P>"I'm a fucking artist, Don't play me like a groupie!!! I'm talkin' about this song, you got your mind on my booty!!" - Me, Booty Shots

melaninmama, sanifu, my lady, i've always valued your presence on these boards whether i've agreed with you or not. i gotta tell ya then, my man scratch n sniff wasn't tryin to play like racism doesn't exist. he wasn't tryin to play like it's not a problem. but i believe he was TRYIN to say that who anybody on here decides to screw is their business, and who anybody on here falls in love with shouldn't have to have a color qualification first. the only true way to overcome hate is with love. and while people may see color and race, love (in my opinion) does not.<P><a href="http://www.thehungersite.com">http://www.thehungersite.com<;/a><P>KRH-ONE (nine-nine-nine): the ORIGINAL and ONLY OkayKoolKeith<P>"if it wasnt for hip hop id probally die"<BR> -DaZeD<P>"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

He started it!!!!! Did you see the way he responded to my post???? He cursed me out and called all types of names!!!!!!!! Once again, why am I always criticized for defending my views and speaking my mind????? I mean, this is ridiculous!!! How come he is allowed to bus off like an ignoramous???? And I respond respectfully and intelligently and I am told to "chill", come on, we all know who should be chillin' in this case. Second, like I said earlier, when you make the choice to pursue a career in entertainment, there is no more "MY BUSINESS" whether it is right or not, that is part of the price of fame. You have to expect people to question just about everything you do and how often you make a bowel movement...the truth is WE ARE A NOSEY SOCIETY!!!! This is nothing new...it just hurts me that everytime I express myself, I feel like I get jumped on which leads me to beleive maybe this isn't a place for me if responses such as those by scrath n sniff are applauded and excused....what is really going on here?<P><BR>"Critics and Bitters don't know<BR> Don't know where my source of light is<BR> Still leave arthurs and writers with arthritis..." -Rakim Allah, It's Been A Long Time<P>"I'm a fucking artist, Don't play me like a groupie!!! I'm talkin' about this song, you got your mind on my booty!!" - Me, Booty Shots

i felt the more constructive action would be to try to clarify his (unfortunately) convoluted points to you. see, rather than criticize him i thought i'd try to help you see his points by getting past the harsh way he tried to make them. i fully respect your opinion on this, that's why i tried to address you directly. i don't necessarily agree with you, but i'm tryin to keep this as civil as possible. i'm not sayin "chill" like you did somethin wrong, but like i'd say "chill" to one of my boys so he wouldn't step to the big 300 lb mufuka that just dissed his girl. i said it to you because i just wanted to keep it from escalating and you were the one i thought would benefit most from the effort. lol, but read my post below, i think it sheds an interesting point of view on this topic....<P><a href="http://www.thehungersite.com">http://www.thehungersite.com<;/a><P>KRH-ONE (nine-nine-nine): the ORIGINAL and ONLY OkayKoolKeith<P>"if it wasnt for hip hop id probally die"<BR> -DaZeD<P>"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

i don't know anything about you, mama, but if every time you post, a group of people as fair-minded and intellegent as okayplayers are "jumping all over you", maybe this IS the wrong place for you...<P>i don't care that you are against christianity, that you don't find white men attractive, or that you are against interracial relationships. that's you.<P>but maybe you would enjoy yourself more in a group that shares similar views to those that you espouse...<P>and by essentially calling scratch and sniff's opinion as "confused and mixed up" as his heritage...you violated the codes of decency with a racially triggered remark, regardless of whether you believed you were insulted first. <P><BR>my for-rhyming magnum's got three-hundred and fifty-seven calibers/<BR>to bust a sucker's melon like gallagher/ -- ras kass

Yeah there were a huge selection of white people in Africa our "ancestors" had to chose from. And when they got enslaved and brought to the states they were just free to be with whom ever they chose. What are you saying be sensitive to our anscestors, as if they were presented with the same social structure that is now existing? I really don't get what your trying to say. peace, Apostle <P><P><P><P>"That's one of them there foot in the mouth type things, huh?"<P><P><P><P><BR>"I'm cooler than a blizzard...nigga what???" Black Thought<P><P><P><P><BR>"I promise that I will not answer the phone when it rings love, while we do our thing love" Q-Tip<BR>

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DROkayplayer™

but if i remember correctly from the description i read of this film, the female love interest of tariq is a jewish woman living in a hassidic neighborhood or some such isht. now, i don't like to be this inflammatory, but if yall wanna have a competition for "most oppressed" and "most victimized" ethnic groups, i'm not sayin who would "win" but the jews will give the blacks a run for they money, nahmean? this isn't some "pale faced seducer." this is a living, breathing, loving, pain experiencing human being. and this is a human being with an ancestry as misunderstood as tariq's. dammit, why the hell did i get involved in this?<P><a href="http://www.thehungersite.com">http://www.thehungersite.com<;/a><P>KRH-ONE (nine-nine-nine): the ORIGINAL and ONLY OkayKoolKeith<P>"if it wasnt for hip hop id probally die"<BR> -DaZeD<P>"Where the F*CK is my purse icon??????"

:::::::::::::
"And I know what the fuck an option quarterback is. He's the black QB under six feet that ends up being converted to wide receiver once he's selected on day two of the NFL draft because he can't hit the ocean from the edge of a boat."

--

The racisicm that we have been victim to since we were robbed has been truly an evil expierance. You adding your evil ass views makes you no better. Damm, you are ignorant!

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and beleive in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. -Romans 1

go away and get a reality check. The only reason you probably posted this in the first place is b/c your man left you for a white woman or some shit.

> The only reason you probably posted this in the > first place is b/c your man left you for a white > woman or some shit. <P>That's sooooo ignorant to say such a thing. <BR>Don't 'suppose' things about posvibes if you don't know her, OK ?<P>All of us need to calm down, NOT because this topic shouldn't be discussed, but because of the way we're doing it.<P>Remember those rules we have now ?<P>Dayum, I disagree too, but I try to understand it at the same time. Don't start cursing out people simply cos they don't apologise for your views. <BR>There's fascism lurking in some of the replies here... <img src="http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/Images/sad.gif"><P>Please, I've read replies that are worse than those in the 'Seattle-thread', while I don't think this post is as offensive.<P>(my signature makes a lot of sense right now)<P><BR>take care, <BR>krewcial<BR><a href="http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators">http://urgent.rug.ac.be/vinylators<;/a><P>'We've got to change our own minds about each other. We have to see each other with new eyes. We have to see each other as brothers and sisters. We have to come together with warmth'<BR>

krewcial
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---> Imma repost this because I put it in the wrong place by mistake.<P>The thing is how are we ever to trully disect race and its implications if we continually keep the "conversation" a homogenous one? Black people talk about race all the time. Every step and breath we take we feel race on some level so we are more inclined to make it a natural point of conversation. White people for the most part stray from everyday conversation and more importantly examinations of race. <BR>There is theory that the greatest problem of race and the "color line" is that every race and hue has been examened (cf. all the US Census' since the first one - the only racial category that is unchanged since the early 1800's is "White") and disected but whiteness. Hence, there is a comfort and relative racial silence in just sticking within the bastians of whiteness. If you are in the midwest or most cities and towns across the nation you rarely have to deal with race or color because most people around you look like you.<P>To make this shorter, my point is that if we don't involve whites into racial discussions and disections we won't get very far. Movies such as this where racial relationships are looked at are greatly needed. Race is not a black or "of color" issue and until we make that clear universally there will be no progress. When we make race and racial issues solely a black or "of color" issue then it stays as something viewed as as "their problem" and nothing is trully done about it.<P>Not to mention that the setting for the movie is Crown Heights Brooklyn the place of past racial riots. I don't know where you are from but New Yorkers know the kind of intense feelings surround that neighborhood. Do some research, a movie that depicts Crown Heights and the tensions between blacks and jews is not only needed but should be demanded.<P>I give much respect and props to Thought for being involved. Cause the "system" is what taught us to only look at the surface - stringy hair - and not at what is real (do the research)<P>Peace. And forgive the typos et. al. it has been a long night of papers.<P>"And even after all my logic and theory, I add a motherf*cker so you ign't niggas hear me" - L-Boogie <BR>

I mean... if they picked some random black man no one would watch the flick (much less discuss the issue). There's hype over the movie already!<P>2 points for who ever cast the actors. <P><BR>

Jason

You must be right. How ignorant could I be to believe that I can at least try to understand and love my fellow man (or woman)on account of the fact that we have a lot to offer each other. And how dare I give allusion to a God of some sort. I guess since I was disagreeing with you my God must be Christian right?? And if it is, oh damn. I mean, the Christian bible really preaches intolerance doesn't it. Your right. Christian missionaries didn't act on their own free will in trying to sway people from their cultures, it was their bible. How foolish am I for believing that love has no boundries. Shit, there should be a book of guidlines on love. I mean, really, what reasons could I find to believe that love transcends cultural pride, history, injustice, appearance, racism, hegemony, death, plague, apocalypse, etc.. I mean, we should hold on to things so tight that we begin to quit judging people and situations on an individual basis. Fuck that!! I'm going to do like you and judge everything on history, not at what vibes the situation or person in front of me is giving me. I was so brainwashed!!! I agreed all along that our country is fucked up and that there has been an old white male hegemony since the inception that continues to opress today in more covert ways, but now I can add that this hegemony and its institutions are a direct sign that EVERY white person is bad, straight across the board. Shit, what was I thinking in believing that everyone has free agency to think and grow and learn as they like.We're all puppets to our culture until Posvibes and Melan..come and cut the strings!!!!. Your right, you are the only person who has ever questioned things, moreover a white person has never done such a thing or thought about these issues from an etic perspective. They aren't capable of thinking for themselves; THEY ARE TOO DAMNED BRAINWASHED!!! <P>Thank you so much for enlightening me to the way things are. Much luh....oh.. hold on...what color are you?????<P>VIS<P>"I'd rather stimulate your mind than emulate your purpose"--ACEYALONE

yo, whats the deal??!<BR>first off i'm sure you haven't seen the flick yet and second i highly doubt thought would get down with any kind of watered down script. its not his autobiography. its just based on some real life shit in crown heights. its ACTING, b. let an artist b an artist. the shit aint an endorsement for chasing white girls its a movie. its art. interracial situations are a part of life in this babylon we live in. art imitates life.<BR>recognize.

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P.E.A.C.E.<P>That are defending interracial relationships why are most of our people not as quick to defend the importance of Black relationships? I always see such outrage with Black folks when questioning interracial relationships and I never see as much outrage as to how the Black family is deteriorating. Where is all the emotion when white people speak on and do things against the Black family? Where are all the white people speaking out when these injustices occur against the black family? Is this colorblind love really real? And how come almost always the only time U see it is with a interracial couple? What did that white woman or man do for the betterment of racial relations in this country before marrying their Black man or woman? Is that genuine colorblind love? There are there more interracial couples nowdays, why? Its not like there are less Black people on the planet? And why is it that if someone says they would prefer to marry their own kind its like blasphemy nowdays? Whats wrong with wanting to be with someone who U have a natural spiritual, cultural, genuine connection with that transcends just love, which is only an emotion? Cuz if I married all the women I thought I loved I would be pretty unhappy right now!<P>These are all legitimate questions that Black people should answer honestly instead of being controlled by emotion and not thinking first. All questions are legitimate really so what is wrong with Pos, Melaninmama or anybody else questioning white people. I mean its not like there is no reason for them to be questioned considering their past and present. We would be fools not to question anyone with such a negative history! U act like that is wrong. Separate yourselves from emotion and question everything! <P>-SAVIR<P>@ONE<P>

Savir,<P>I don't know where to start....I am very saddend at this moment from the resonse generated by this post. First of all, THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU for putting it as clear and OUT there as you did...I have nothing but love for those who see, speak and live TRUTH!!!!!!!! I have realized that there are very few people on this board who holds up and respects the existence of the BLACK nation. I am absolutely pissed off that any NON_BLACK entity could have the audacity to tell me to "get over the past" or "Love has no color" lOVE has had no color until it was convienent for them (WHITES)!!!!!!!!!!!! It is almost like black people are even afraid or in denial of who we really are and what we have the potential to be. It's okay that the black family is practically non-existent!!!!!!!!!!! It's okay that over 90% of the prison population is that of black and brown faces...not to mention fathers and husbands. We are always so quick to say who are you to judge...but who in the fuck are THEY to put on a rob and call themselves a JUDGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANd setence a black man to jail for fucking life over a robbery he may have commmitted for circumstances you may not know. I am soooo revved up and actually hot and had to hold back some tears because the more I am exposed to the these people in the industry who profess to be SOOOOO for the people and turn out to be fake ass scared ass punks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE AFRAID TO QUESTION MASTER!!!!!! White people have a very solid history of destruction, disease and hate. They have disected every culture on tihs planet. Q uestioned every culture on ths planet..but still, I should'nt question them right? I can't help it that most people don't want to take REAL responsibility for the destruction of the BLACK nation....but unlike alot of people on this site...I LOVE MY CULTURE AND MY PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!! SO WHAT??? Somebody has to, they all hated us up until 20 years ago or so. I am so overwhelmed with feelings rigt now that I amtrying not to let them dictate what I am saying here. All these people on here SCREAMING FREE MUMIA and shit, but have they forgotten he's locked up on deathrow because he is black man who was not afraid to stand up and speak out against the oppression in this country which happens to be from the hand of pale person. Guiness made it clear that maybe I was right, this is not the place for me...and on that note....I'm out.<P>May you lost souls be blessed with TRUE knowledge of self and sight.<P>Sanifu<P><BR>"Critics and Bitters don't know<BR> Don't know where my source of light is<BR> Still leave arthurs and writers with arthritis..." -Rakim Allah, It's Been A Long Time<P>"I'm a fucking artist, Don't play me like a groupie!!! I'm talkin' about this song, you got your mind on my booty!!" - Me, Booty Shots

i need to come respond with a level head. I posted angry and let some words fly that I shouldn't have and I apologize to melaninmama and whoever else I pissed off. Like Savir said, I need to forget emotion for a second and think. My opinions, for the most part are as I stated before: that there's nothing wrong with interracial relationships and that if you think there is you are a racist, but racists are still living breathing people with thought processes and rationality. They came to their opinions and rationalized them and this is a very complicated process, which shouldn't be fuck you'ed so quickly. It takes lifetimes to accumulate such opinions. Melaninmama was right when she said I don't know her, and I don't know what it's like to be black (but she doesn't know me either and shouldn't say the fucked up shit about me that she said, but enough). So in an effort to be more cooperative, more understanding, and learn a little more about you and your opinion before I say 'fuck you' again, I ask a few questions (see bottom) <P>One of you asked, when a white person marries a black person, what has this white person done for the black family? Now, this is a very general group: the black family. There's a lot of em. You're a damn genius if you figure out how to better the lives and reputation of such a large group of people, whether you're black, white, or neither. I personally know of only a handfull alive today who have done so. Now I'm not black, so that makes me no expert when I speculate that this should not be a requirement to start a relationship with a black person. But I can name one thing this white person has done for the black family: they joined one. They have vowed to help build one. It's a white family now too, but so what? It's a family, and half the members are black... er the members are half black. Anyways, it's a loving family and that's a beautiful thing. I'm not even trying to argue that love is colorblind, but interracial love does happen, whether you like it or not (I know you already know this, I'm not trying to talk down to you, okayplayer?).<P>Maybe for you, love sees some strict-ass racial boundaries or it doesn't but you prefer the companionship of only your own race, and that is your business, but I think if you have a problem with the members of your race and the opposite sex dating outside your race and therefore depleting your sexual resources, that's your problem, and yours alone. Someone marrying outside their race, regardless of the circumstances, can not be held responsible for the poor state of other families, or the inavailability of other men/women of their race. For the record, they're also not accountable for racism, poverty, a faulty criminal justice system, or any other form of oppression against his/her people (but you already knew that). A black man who marries a white woman is not (at least in any case I know of, but I'll keep my peeps peeled) marrying "one of the oppressors." Any white woman who marries a black man has to be against all that oppressive shit or they just wouldn't click like that.<P>No one on this board has tried to insinuate that the black family is not important (that would be foolish, not just wrong), or that the criminal justice system in this country is fair. It's fucked up. You've got to be a fascist or a naive motherfucker to disagree. Mumia is in prison solely because he's black and he spoke up about injustice (that and his brother happened to be in the wrong place at the right time), and fucked up is an understatement. And he is only one example of a racially biased court system. I am 100% against racial injustice of any kind, and I include intolerance for interracial relationships in that category.<P>Is it so hard to understand? Try to put yourself in my place. I'm a very racially mixed individual. Here I am in the middle of a discussion in which some of you are saying that people like me should not exist. You say you're proud to be black. Well I'm proud to be mixed, not confused by it. Yes, I've experienced racism against me by folk of all races. I've been called spic, juero, whiteboy, coconut. When I was 12 years old I was turned down by a girl who liked me, because her father wouldn't let her go out with a non-Japanese boy. Now that was just little kid shit, but the pain was real, and it was because of her racist father. What i'm sayin is, I know what racism is. So naturally, I can't stand by and listen to you say that a man can't date a woman if he's black and she's white. Are you to tell me that Lindsay would have been any less Japanese if she had been my girlfriend?<P>Now I haven't had the below questions answered by the people I seem to be arguing against, but the opinion seems to be this: "Blacks dating whites (all non-blacks? and would this include dark Latinos? and either way, where do we draw this line?) is wrong because blacks need to support black unity and strengthen our community by creating a positive black family." So now it's okay for non-blacks to date anyone of any non-black race, and it's only okay for blacks to date other blacks? Let me draw you a diagram:<P>***********************************************************************<BR>whites(all peoples of European descent) latinos asians american indians indians(from india) australian aborigines peoples of the middle east polynesians melanesians micronesians philipinos eskimos<BR>______________________________________________<P>blacks<P>***********************************************************************<P>and that brings me to my questions:<BR>These should all begin with "In your opinion,"<P>1. Is it okay for a white man to date an asian woman?<BR>2a. Is it okay for a black man to date a white woman?<BR>2b. If your answer to 2a is "no, because he should be a positive force for black unity," or something along those lines, then answer this:<BR> Why can't he support unity among blacks and unity among others as well?<BR>3a. Is it okay for a black man to date a non-black, non-white woman?<BR>3b. same as 2b.<BR>4a. Is it okay for a black woman to date a white man?<BR>4b. (you figure out what 4b is)<BR>5a. Is it okay for a black woman to date a non-white, non-black man?<BR>5b. (why not?)<BR>6. Is it okay for a Kosovar man to date a Serbian woman?<BR>(I know you're all gonna jump on this one and say, "No, because Kosovar men should support Kosovar unity! The only times Serbs mention equality is when it benefits Serbs!".... okay, okay, that was a bad joke, but damn... at least I can still play, Okay?)<BR>7. Is it okay for a Jewish man to date a German woman?<P>Please give sound reasoning for any answer and why different questions may have different answers and also only reply if for any of the questions you give "no" answers.<P>P.S. Melaninmama, if i'd known you wanted to "go south on me" I would have been much nicer to you at first ..... (i'm kidding! can't anyone take a joke?)

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
giving you true posts since 1999 - effa charter member

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...say this ish with my latest post... you said it better... nice response, man... really... i agree totally... any dissenters just TRY to answer those questions (and the ones in my post!)... you can't do it...<BR>...open your eyes, all of you... we have so little time allotted to us on this spinning rock... why do we have to spend it bickering over such things?<P>-koan, the philosopher king<P>"without awareness, there is no life... only activity"

~~~~~

is phatter than Big Pun gettin cut out of his house on Jerry Springer. This is the best, most well-put post on race relations and racism that I've ever seen on here, and it has the most poignant points to it. Arguing against this post (ESPECIALLY THOSE ON POINT QUESTIONS) will just sound like excuses if you ask me. Peace.<P>Respectfully,<P>Crossfaded<P>"If you can't laugh at yourself then you take yourself too serious" -- Crossfaded<P>"We are hip-hop...me, you, everybody...so the next time you ask yourself, 'Where is hip-hop going?', stop and ask yourself, 'Where am I going?'" -- Mos Def<P>"My rhyme style has got you sprung like a girlie giving head with an earring in her tongue" -- Tash

is phatter than Big Pun getting cut out of his house on Jerry Springer. This is the best, most well put post on race relations and racism that I have ever seen on OkayPlayer. It has the most poignant points. Trying to argue it (ESPECIALLY THOSE ON POINT QUESTIONS) will seem like you're making excuses in order to be right. Peace.<P>Respectfully,<P>Crossfaded<P>"If you can't laugh at yourself then you take yourself too serious" -- Crossfaded<P>"We are hip-hop...me, you, everybody...so the next time you ask yourself, 'Where is hip-hop going?', stop and ask yourself, 'Where am I going?'" -- Mos Def<P>"My rhyme style has got you sprung like a girlie giving head with an earring in her tongue" -- Tash

First off I commend you for being able to pull back and view things in a calmer state of mind. We all need to view forums like these as opportunities to grow.<BR> <BR> I see where you're coming from with the questionaire.... but.....you presented your own background as mixed.....proof positive that things are not always as simple as black and white. Many of us are of mixed ethnicity....and we have come to recognize that there is ambiguity in life.<BR> That being said, much of the debate surrounding interracial dating has focused on Black Unity.....and whether or not racial pride and interracial dating are two mutually exclusive events. Much of the problem actually stems from the reasons why some brothers and sistas date exclusively out of their "race". There is a whole host of issues that some of us have.... many related to self-hatred and racial orientation.....who we date is a conscious choice based on these beliefs.... we need to be honest with ourselves about the basis of these choices. <P>** Who we love is a totally different thing....we love who we love.... I don't think we have much choice there...Love is kinda like the Trump card...I'm not tryin' to go up against that...love is love..I think that alot of the animosity stemmed from the belief that some people were tryin' to tell <BR>us who to love....<BR> <BR> <BR>

For one of the better-thought out posts on this thread.<P>You summed up the debate real well.<P>I didn't know some people date exclusively out of their race. If they do that conciously, that is some fucked up racism. Even if they do it unconciously, they need to look at themselves in the mirror.<P>My dating a white girl doesn't stop me from having heated debate with her about what it is to be black, and how blacks should respond to this racism. Representing your race and mixing with other people are not mutually exclusive, like repping hip hop and mixing it with other forms of black or non-black music are not mutually exclusive.<P>AIM: mke1978<P>"L'actualité régionale: c'est vous qui la vivez, c'est nous qui en vivons"<BR>In English:<BR>"Local news: you live it, we live off it"<BR>- Jules-Edouard Moustic, 20H20<P>"I'm spittin' lies/But she's none the wise"<BR> - Roots Manuva (check the fantastic album "Brand New Second Hand")<P><P>

<BR> "plays nice with others"<BR>That's the only way we can all learn from each other....<BR> <BR> My point was that there are personal dynamics that come into play far before the racial stuff....<BR>

I'm feelin' you. <BR>The black family does get put on the back burner these days, and things aren't going to get better til that changes. I don't condemn people in interracial relationships if there motivations are really love. But in most (not all) cases brothas get with white girls because of bullshit excuses like sistas are too mean or they're gold diggers. And more and more sistas are hoppin the fence saying that there are no good brothas. That's some BULLSHIT!! There's plenty of good brothas - I'm one of them (so queens can holla at me) - and these generalizations are mad destructive to the black family in amerikkka. That's why for the most part I'm not feeling interracial relationships. And before yall send me 100 replys saying I'm racist, just know that I speak from experience. I admit that I was in one brief relationship with an Italian girl once and the shit was a disaster. The whole thing just reminded me how much I love sistas. Besides all the racist bullshit from her family I just didn't feel the connection that I've felt with sistas. No matter how hard they try, there's a lot of ways that white folks can't understand us. A lot of people just get caught up in the mystery and drama of it all.<BR>I do think that Brooklyn Babylon is gon be phat though. The same cat that did slam is directing it and Slam was off the hook. And like I said in my other post its not an endorsement for interracial relationships, it's just taking a look at the racial tensions in Amerikkka kinda like a 2000 version of PE's Pollywannacracker. The Roots have always kept it true and not put their names on anything that's wack, so why would Black Thought start now?<P>peace<BR>incog

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...is that it's turned into just a massive attack on white people in general, and not a civil discussion of interracial relationships. we're not going to shed any light on this question by howling about the evils of white people, we're just not. so let's try to get back on topic. this post isn't about the evils of caucasians... it's about whether or not it is wrong for two people of differing races to be romantically involved.<P>(actually... isn't it really about black thought's role in an upcoming film and whether he's wrong in taking that role as it may be perceived by some as denigrating to the "black cause"? ...well... yeah... but what are the chances of getting back onto that subject?)<P>you know, just because someone isn't dating a person of the same color as them doesn't mean they've got some serious self-hatred issues or that they're not supportive of the black cause. it just means that they've found someone with whom they choose to spend their time and they're not so close-minded as to being limited by differences in ethnicity. there is nothing wrong with dating someone of the same ethnic background as you... it may actually make things go more easily. likewise, there is nothing wrong with dating a person of a different background provided you do it out of love and not because they're a novelty or a way of "bettering yourself".<P>i've said it before and i'll say it again: i've never dated a black woman. it's not a matter of preference or choice because i most definitely find black women beautiful and attractive and i would date any girl whom i find attractive. i've never dated a black girl because i've rarely come across one that meshes as well with me as the one of the girls i have gone out with.... (well... that and the fact that i've never come across a sista that will go out with me... i don't seem to appeal much to african american females, and i am greatly distressed by that... but not too much... 'cause there's lots of other types of women, eh?)<BR>it boils down to this, really. i date all kinds of women. given the chance, i will gladly date an african american woman if the opportunity presents itself. but... i do not feel some kind of "racial duty" to carry on the black race... i don't think anyone should. the only duty you should have is to yourself to make your life the happiest you can. and if you are happy with a white/brown/black/yellow person, then you should be with that person. so i ask this question:<P>-what problem do YOU have with ME dating a girl of white/asian/middle eastern/american indian/other ethnicity?<BR>-and why do you have this problem? <BR>-why should i let the problems YOU have dictate the manner in which i live MY life?<BR>*this question is assuming that i don't have any "serious self-hatred" issues or desires of "self-betterment" through miscegenation... this is assuming that i am dating a beautiful white-asian woman because i love her... which i am. *<P>i challenge anyone who has, in this post, or in life, railed against interracial relationships for whatever reason to answer these questions.<BR>personally, i don't think you can give a satisfactory, so surprise me.<P>gawd, this is a long post... did i actually say anything? ...ah well... yeah. i'd appreciate it if those with differing views would answer the questions i posed previously.<BR>-koan<P>"without awareness, there is no life... only activity"

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brotha, i personally have any problem with you and who you date. i mean it really aint even my business. but it is a fact of life that there are a LOT of black folk that cross the color lines for the wrong reason. i'm not saying that everybody who dates interacially has self hate issues, but there are a far too many who do. and the worst part is that they don't know they do. there is a lot of subliminal bullshit in our society that is fed to us everyday. american mainstream culture celebrates white ideals of beauty and overlooks the beauty of the black woman (the mother of civilization). and even when a sista gets into mainstream media (with the exception of lauryn, erykah badu and a few others) a lot of times she has colored contacts, and permed and/or blonde hair. i'm not trying to dis sistas with perms but it does bother me that in our society black women are taught from an early age that their natural "nappy hair is undesireable. these are all things that are subconciously programmed into our heads that unfortunately affect a lot of people's dating decisions. i mean in the rare cases where it happpens (an happy interracial couple) and its purely emotional then hey, cool. but too many people let a few bad experiences with their own race form their decision to date another color. i did say that i'm not feelin' interracial relationships personally, but who am i to tell you what to do with your life. however, i DO think that in amerikkka in 1999 it is MAD CRUCIAL that black people have much needed UNITY. all of us. i think we all need to be pro black. pro black does NOT nescisarilly mean anti-white. but the majority of blacks i've come across dating white people aren't concerned with pro-black issues. there are too many black people that only think ME and not WE. the fact is that WE weren't meant to survive here and WE won't excell as a people until we do start thinking as we or InI. <BR>so basically bro, live your life, do what you gotta do but always remember that the black woman is a queen and that black people all have to stick together (beyond romantic relationships) for us to get back to where we need to be as a people.<P>peace<BR>incog<P>"from peter tosh to who got the props i don't stop/ strugglin to survive as i scribe to the vibe on the past lives of InI/ meaning you and i, they can't conquer what they can't divide/ remain the same yet change like the weather, the original man stand, we will be here forever."<BR> --the incog, from "InI"

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" I don't like it when my post sink to the bottom" mikaela_h<BR> <BR>"What the fuck is a kec?" some dude<P> " Friendship is built on trust not time, so it doesn't matter how long you have known someone physically." <BR> Talib Kweli of BlackStar

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...the whole black unity ish and all, y'know? ...all i'm sayin' is i am SO tired of walking in the mall with my girlfriend, who just happens to be asian/white, and passing a group of black girls who give her the evil eye 'cause she's "stolen" me... that's bullshit. gawd, i keep repeating myself, but i think it applies... i, as a person, belong to no one... so i can't be "stolen"...<P>...i mean... with all the black unity... you're preachin' to the choir... no one wants to see black people get their ish t'gether more than me... really... but my dating a girl with whom i am greatly smitten has little or nothing to do with that... as long as i am dating for genuine affection rather than some self-hating need to become better or whatever... and all my questions were "assuming that one doesn't have one of those self-hating complexes"... i agree that people like that should do some serious self-evaluation... i'm just saying i'm not one of them, and on those grounds... i asked if you've then got a problem with my dating someone of another color...<P>...and you say "the black woman is a queen" as though i don't recognize that... dammit, don't tell me to fuckin' remember somethin' i already know... i swear, everyone says that shit like they're droppin' some goddam hidden knowledge and i'm their unlearned student... quit that shit! ...just because i happen to be dating a non-black girl doesn't mean i don't recognize the beauty in african american women... it just means that i'm not fuckin' stupid enough to limit such a huge portion of the population of potential mates simply because they've got differing amounts of melanin... i try my damndest to evaluate people on an individual basis...<BR>...sorry... it's just i hear that shit soooo often... every fuckin' day, y'know... i dunno... all i'm sayin' is that sometimes, stereotypes hold true, y'know? ...sometimes, black women do have a bit too much attitude to deal with on the daily... and some guys don' wanna put up with it... and maybe... just maybe... that brotha (or sista) you're so mad at for dating that white girl/boy is genuinely attracted to them and the only person really seriously considering race is YOU...<BR>-kevin<P>"without awareness, there is no life... only activity"

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look, B. if you read what i wrote i'm not judging you at all. who am i to push my dating preferences on you or anyone else. i just felt that those were some issues that needed to be discussed. it wasn't even about you! if you're confident that your attraction to your shorty isn't tainted then cool! but if that's the case why are you getting so defensive when i specified that it wasn't about you. guess the world revolves around you alone, my bad.<BR>and as for that jive ass shit 'bout me "preachin to the choir", I'M NOT JUDGING YOU SO DON'T JUDGE ME!!!!<P>chill,<BR>incognant<P>"cats think they the shit but they really the runs/ the cool to the cog, sun's as live as they come."<BR>-me

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yo... koan wasn' tryin' to start beef and ish, y'know? ...i's all love, eh?<BR>...in any case...<P>>>"and as for that jive ass shit 'bout me "preachin to the choir", I'M NOT JUDGING YOU SO<BR> DON'T JUDGE ME!!!!"<P>...i'm not sure how you took that statement... i meant, you're just asserting something i already agreed with, see? ...tha's all...<BR>...and sorry about the tone of my post... it's just... i run into that shit on such a regular basis... the sideways looks from black girls and shit... so-called "queens" harassing my girl and shit, y'know? ...it's bullshit... and i was venting... it just seems so wrong to me for people to even think of criticizing unless they know for certain there's something wrong on that whole "self-hate" level... and that's not always the case... i wouldn't even say it's the case in the majority of the time, y'know? ...but i can't speak for everyone... i was just askin', speakin' for myself, if anyone had any problem with my dating a person of another race and if so why...<BR>that was all...<BR>...all love, folks... <P>-koan<P>"without awareness, there is no life... only activity"

~~~~~

aight then. it's all good. i can respect your opinions as long as you respect mine. like i said being pro black does not make me anti-white. i aint mad at ya. it's all love bro.<P>peace,<BR>coolcog

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Once again... I will not pretend like I understand (or overstand <P>(((around sound)))<P>(((krutch)))(((1999)))<P>"Well, if your mom had teeth she wouldn't suck dick so well, What's your point?" - Pnub from "Idle Hands"<P>"Turns out... Not where, but who you're with that really matters...that really matters" -D. Matthews<P>"You could die a thousand ways and I'd still love you back to life" - L. Kravitz

Once again... I will not pretend like I understand (or overstand <P>(((around sound)))<P>(((krutch)))(((1999)))<P>"Well, if your mom had teeth she wouldn't suck dick so well, What's your point?" - Pnub from "Idle Hands"<P>"Turns out... Not where, but who you're with that really matters...that really matters" -D. Matthews<P>"You could die a thousand ways and I'd still love you back to life" - L. Kravitz

Once again... I will not pretend like I understand (or overstand <--i hate that "word") the lives of anyone of a different race. I don't understand the lives of most of my race. I agree with Savir on one point. It is NOT wrong for someone to say that they see themselves marrying a member of their own race. Any time I envision my future with a family, I'm married to a white woman and there's a bunch of little white kids, like myself, running around the yard. That is how I envision my future, but how many times have I been wrong??? Countless times. I may marry a black woman, a japanese woman, a hungarian woman, a guatemalan woman, a seminole woman... hell, i may not even marry at all. My only point is that I AM NOT GOING TO LIMIT my dating pool to just one race and if i fall in love and don't see myself anywhere else... I'm putting the ring on a different colored finger!!!

Why are some people so fucking ignorant. Have you ever been in love? Love is love, there is no such thing as real love. If you are in love with somebody than you are in love, regardless of anything. If all you people are so critical of love maybe we should do without relationships. It would be alot better than having to listen to ignorant posts such as these. I don't want to hear any your philisophical bullshit either. Sorry I have to be so harsh but this post had to come sometime.

whats the deal w/ this my people our people your people? SHIT IS SO MUCH MORE SIMPLE THAN ALL OF THIS!! we are all people...we are all apart of the human race. im not saying anyone shoul forget their heritage or the injustices passed upon them, but its nearly 2000 now, and this planet is getting crowded. i dont see why it is so hard for a person to look at another person, just that, another person who struggles, loves, and lives just as much as you. i am not a hippie but i am not kidding when i say that yall need to be hugging your neighbor. when you step back and see the big picture, it all becomes so simple. its scary how as the number of people rises, the number of human beings is still so small..<BR>i dunno if im getting my point across here because i dunno if this is something that can be taught, but i hope so because when you break it all down to the barest facts, What you get is, we are all of the same race and we are all in this together...<P> the earth will survive our demise. Eff that save the earth crap... i say save the peeps.

Lovin it!!!! Dove<P>Support Bacteria - It's the only culture some people have!<P>"If you can't be good, at least be good at it!" Some Smart Muthafucka<P>"Kids are great Apu! You can teach them to hate the things you hate, and they practically raise themselves - what with the internet and all!" ~Homer Simpson<P>"Our deepest fear is not that we are indadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.<BR>We are born to make manifest the Glory of God that is within us. It is not just in some of us, it is in everyone - and as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.<BR>As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others." ~Nelson Mandela~

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HoMeBrO SaYs there's nothing we can do to stop it, and anyways one day all people will end the same color.<P>I laugh at people who get tans, everyone wants to have brown skin.<P>its meesed up when you have half japanise-black-mexicans in your neighborhood.<P><BR>The black omen is upon us<P>

I like Red Bones...but my fam would trip on a white chic...but if thats a niggaz thing i aint got shit bad too say....im sure Tariq's fucked a few white chicks...every nigga got 1 on there bench.

>I like Red Bones...but my fam would <BR>>trip on a white chic...but if <BR>>thats a niggaz thing i aint <BR>>got shit bad too say....im sure <BR>>Tariq's fucked a few white chicks...every <BR>>nigga got 1 on there bench. <BR>><BR> Brotha you need some healing. I really suggest you read Haki Madhubuti's "Black Men: Single, Obsolete, Dangerous"; cause you need some definite awakening.<P>Peace<P>"And even after all my logic and theory, I add a motherf*cker so you ign't niggas hear me" - L-Boogie

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