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iluvmaxy

Wed Apr-19-00 12:52 PM

  
"Black people supporting hip-hop"


          

i went to the common concert monday at ucla and noticed that there was a large white and asian population and a handful of black folk...actually i've noticed this a several hip-hop concerts...my friend actually got a chance to ask common, del, and mos def what they thought about this(but you'd have to ask her for details)

i was just curious as to why this occurs...are black people not as supportive? do they just not know? is it too far away? are asians and whites feeling hip-hop more than we are? i don't know, all i know is i want to see more black faces at concerts where the artists are positive and teaching a positive message about the black community in their words...but what do you think?

loverespecthumilit

please share

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
i think.....
madmonkey
Apr 19th 2000
1
RE: i think.....
_bigheezy_
Apr 19th 2000
2
RE: i think.....
iluvmaxy
Apr 19th 2000
3
Blacks not supporting hip-hop?!
Apr 19th 2000
4
RE: Blacks not supporting hip-hop?!
Apr 20th 2000
7
RE: Blacks not supporting hip-hop?!
_bigheezy_
Apr 25th 2000
26
im tired of hearing...
lorok1
Apr 26th 2000
30
      RE: im tired of hearing...
Apr 26th 2000
31
      LIES!!
Apr 26th 2000
32
           RE: LIES!!
Apr 26th 2000
37
sorry...
madmonkey
Apr 24th 2000
15
This is some bullshit
Apr 20th 2000
8
FINALLY!!
madmonkey
Apr 20th 2000
9
      wait....
madmonkey
Apr 20th 2000
10
RE: i think.....
jahstixx
Apr 21st 2000
12
RE: i think.....
_bigheezy_
Apr 25th 2000
24
RE: i disagree
Apr 25th 2000
23
      RE: i disagree
_bigheezy_
Apr 25th 2000
27
RE: i think.....
iluvmaxy
Apr 20th 2000
11
Yo
Apr 21st 2000
14
RE: i think.....
Daverse3000
Apr 24th 2000
16
      RE: i think.....
Jaila
Apr 24th 2000
19
           RE: i think.....
Daverse3000
Apr 25th 2000
21
           Yeah let's be blunt.. neither Common, Mos Def, nor the Roots set the sta...
Apr 26th 2000
34
           Yeah let's be blunt.. neither Common, Mos Def, nor the Roots set the sta...
Apr 26th 2000
35
           RE: Yeah let's be blunt.. neither Common, Mos Def, nor the Roots set the...
iluvmaxy
Apr 27th 2000
42
           Yeah let's be blunt.. neither Common, Mos Def, nor the Roots set the sta...
Apr 26th 2000
36
                RE: Yeah let's be blunt.. neither Common, Mos Def, nor the Roots set the...
Apr 28th 2000
47
                     In NY, Redefinition was on the Top 5 at 5
Apr 28th 2000
49
           They keep saying that blacks don't accept creativity & difference
Apr 26th 2000
33
Blacks as a people need to Wake up!!!
Apr 19th 2000
5
i didn't know if anyone else was feeling me
iluvmaxy
Apr 20th 2000
6
RE: Black people supporting hip-hop
Apr 21st 2000
13
IT IS SAD SAD SAD
Apr 24th 2000
17
RE: Black people supporting hip-hop
Jaila
Apr 24th 2000
18
RE: Black people supporting hip-hop
Apr 26th 2000
38
food stamp and government cheese
iluvmaxy
Apr 25th 2000
22
RE: Black people supporting hip-hop
ms. nappiness
Apr 24th 2000
20
Thank You!!
septa52
Apr 26th 2000
39
RE: Black people supporting hip-hop
Apr 25th 2000
25
Ever Been to a Puffy of Biggie Concert?
black_engineer
Apr 25th 2000
28
RE: Black people supporting hip-hop
2Bad
Apr 25th 2000
29
RE: Black people supporting hip-hop
justapaperbag
Apr 27th 2000
40
      No doubt...check that Trick Daddy "what's up/shut up" track
Apr 28th 2000
44
      I do admit....
Apr 28th 2000
48
      By George I think he's got it.....
MahoganyBrown
Apr 28th 2000
45
This conversation is upsetting!
Apr 27th 2000
41
RE: This conversation is upsetting!
iluvmaxy
Apr 27th 2000
43
RE: This conversation is upsetting!
Apr 28th 2000
46

madmonkey

Wed Apr-19-00 01:00 PM

  
1. "i think....."
In response to Reply # 0


          

it really depends on where you see the show.

i think your "are black people not supporting hip hop?" is a weak question and kinda stupid. are you really wondering this? if you are i think you have problems.

peace

-madmonkey

"I DON'T KNOW KARATE BUT I KNOW CaRAZY!" -JAMES BROWN

  

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_bigheezy_

Wed Apr-19-00 02:04 PM

  
2. "RE: i think....."
In response to Reply # 1


          

that's bullshit.

"are black people supporting hip-hop?" is a valid question.

i think black people do support hip-hop but only the hip-hop that moves them. the shit that they can relate to just like anybody else.

if you go to a cash money show or a ruff ryders or jay-z show you will see more black people.

at common shows you won't find blacks to out number the whites because of the talented tenth theory.

i'm a bastard when it comes to black history but i believe that dubois said that the talented 10% of black people were to lead the rest to freedom or revolution or equality. i find the problem with this is that the tenth will either abandone the other 90% or will forget how to talk to them. won't beable to move them cause they don't know how to relate.

this is what's happenning to common and and mos and others. they are on a higher intellectual level than the average black man and not just black people but white people too.

they don't sell millions because ignorant shallow white folk bumpcash money, and they don't have alot of black support because alot of black people haven't had the education to beable to understand them, and the ones who can understand may not care because the new world water problem and assata shakur are the last things on there mind. they got family to take care of money to get and jay-z's ice is represents there goal more than common's kufi(sp.?).

-bigbadhanks

"i believe man made god out of ignorance and fear if god made man then why the hell would he put us here"
-dead prez

  

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iluvmaxy

Wed Apr-19-00 05:35 PM

  
3. "RE: i think....."
In response to Reply # 2


          



bigbadhanks,

thanks for your insight, love, and support


-they schools aint teaching us what we need to know to survive, they schools dont educate all they teach the people is lies-dead prez

  

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Innovate
Member since Nov 16th 2002
2 posts
Wed Apr-19-00 10:21 PM

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4. "Blacks not supporting hip-hop?!"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

From my personal experience all the underground and innovative hip hop shows I've attended have had majority white audiences. I do not know the underlying reason for this. I've been fortunate to grow up around all types of cultures.It's helped me to understand more about others. To me it seems that the white and asian communities support underground hip hop more. It pisses me off when I have to defend what I listen to to other black kids. They are more into whatever song is "hot" in the clubs at the moment. I think it is important for blacks to support what is rightfully ours. Dont get me wrong,hip hop is bigger than one cultue now, but as the creators of this culture I think we should be the main ones supporting it!! I don'w know, I'm just throwing some ideas and thoughts out there.

Peace,
Darian

  

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naijagirl
Member since Aug 19th 2002
10 posts
Thu Apr-20-00 09:30 AM

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7. "RE: Blacks not supporting hip-hop?!"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Of course Blacks are supporting hip hop. I buy hip hop albums all the time. Just bought 2 at lunch. The last time I went to a concert, hmmmm. House of Blues, Common and De La Soul 3 years ago. Being crushed in a pit is not my idea of fun.

Im 27. I love the okayartists musics. Have all their albums (okay, not toshi kubota... yet). I love innovative, interesting, and intelligent hip hop music. Yep, thats the okayartists. I like a good beat, and lyrics that make me think. That is what I buy. I support artists who pull that off.

(i do like to go to a club and get my groove on, too, dont get me wrong, but thats different)

I do not however, generally hang out at concerts on college campuses, or any place where I will be crushed up in a sea of people. Even if they are fans of an artist I support. That is not how I enjoy my music.

It may be a generational thing. I know that friends of mine who like hip hop will not go to a show unless it is like 25 and over. Which almost never happens. Which is why you dont see us. Perhaps what you are seeing is that the Commons of the world are growing with their audiences--a great majority of their fan base may be older; they may not be the ones you see out on the quad, or in the clubs.

blah blah blah talented tenth. Please dont insult me by insinuating that most Black people are not intelligent enough to understand Common's music. I dont buy that.

my .02

peace



  

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_bigheezy_

Tue Apr-25-00 09:07 AM

  
26. "RE: Blacks not supporting hip-hop?!"
In response to Reply # 7


          


>blah blah blah talented tenth. Please
>dont insult me by insinuating
>that most Black people are
>not intelligent enough to understand
>Common's music. I dont buy
>that.

what is wrong with me using dubios' talented tenth theory?

you ask kids who assatta shakur is and they'll think it's tupac's mother. the talented tenth becomes arrogant once they realize they are more educated than the people they supose to be speaking to. they forget how to relate or just can't relate to the uneducated members of the black community.

fredrick douglas spoke about black issues but his audience was white, because he wasn't writing to the illiterate southern slaves. he wasn't speaking their lingo or using words they could understand.

i'm not saying there is something wrong with this (right now) i'm just trying to explain why common's audience doesn't have a black majority.

-bigbadhanks

"i believe man made god out of ignorance and fear if god made man then why the hell would he put us here"
-dead prez

  

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lorok1

Wed Apr-26-00 04:36 AM

  
30. "im tired of hearing..."
In response to Reply # 4


          

"hip hop is black music"
hip hop is "whats rightfully ours" etc...

hip hop was a culture created by new york city YOUTH, of many nationalities. alot of hispanics and whites (especially with the graffiti thing) were down from the very beginning. hip hop was never a "black thing." to be more truthfull, hip hop should be called a new york city thing. or perhaps a "ghetto thang", or even an inner-city thing. instead of wondering why whites or asians are feeling hip hop, lets ask why suburbanites feel hip hop? or why country-fied folk feel hip hop?

"cuz i'd rather stimulate your mind than emulate your purpose" acey

  

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Jude
Charter member
3151 posts
Wed Apr-26-00 07:41 AM

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31. "RE: im tired of hearing..."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

I understand what you are trying to say...but the message in the music still relates to the black community....as it always has.




I will figure you out first...make no mistake...I will be the last man standing.

J..to the...U to the..you know the rest



  

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nahymsa
Charter member
1734 posts
Wed Apr-26-00 08:28 AM

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32. "LIES!!"
In response to Reply # 30


          

give me a break...

  

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Jude
Charter member
3151 posts
Wed Apr-26-00 10:16 AM

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37. "RE: LIES!!"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

you were refering to lorok's message right?


I will figure you out first...make no mistake...I will be the last man standing.

J..to the...U to the..you know the rest



  

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madmonkey

Mon Apr-24-00 10:21 AM

  
15. "sorry..."
In response to Reply # 3


          

if you got the impression my response was a little sour...well...that's cause it was. i was just haveing a bad day. problems with my girl and a whole bunch of other shit (don't need to get into it).

it was a stupid reply and i take it back.

i think it is a good question, why are there are more white folks at these shows?, and i have yet to hear a good and logical reason why this is. i certainly don't know why. i'm not saying that there should be more black people, i just don't understand why there aren't more black people.

peace

-madmonkey

"I DON'T KNOW KARATE BUT I KNOW CaRAZY!" -JAMES BROWN

  

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nahymsa
Charter member
1734 posts
Thu Apr-20-00 01:21 PM

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8. "This is some bullshit"
In response to Reply # 2


          

The most disgusting post I've read in a minute.

I'm tired of negative stereotypes...especially if & when they come from our own.

  

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madmonkey

Thu Apr-20-00 02:32 PM

  
9. "FINALLY!!"
In response to Reply # 8


          

someone agreed with me!

thank you...

peace

-madmonkey

"I DON'T KNOW KARATE BUT I KNOW CaRAZY!" -JAMES BROWN

  

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madmonkey

Thu Apr-20-00 02:34 PM

  
10. "wait...."
In response to Reply # 9


          

you do agree....right?

awwhhhhhh who cares.

peace

-madmonkey

"I DON'T KNOW KARATE BUT I KNOW CaRAZY!" -JAMES BROWN

  

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jahstixx

Fri Apr-21-00 12:19 AM

  
12. "RE: i think....."
In response to Reply # 2


          

>this is what's happenning to common
>and and mos and others.
>they are on a higher
>intellectual level than the average
>black man and not just
>black people but white people
>too.
>
>they don't sell millions because ignorant
>shallow white folk bumpcash money,
>and they don't have alot
>of black support because alot
>of black people haven't had
>the education to beable to
>understand them, and the ones
>who can understand may not
>care because the new world
>water problem and assata shakur
>are the last things on
>there mind. they got family
>to take care of money
>to get and jay-z's ice
>is represents there goal more
>than common's kufi(sp.?).
>
>-bigbadhanks
>
stupid uneducated ignorant is what u r 2 tell us imagine the arrogamce that most black folks are not on the snme intellectual level as mos or com which seems 2 me u r tellin me then that the hords of white kids then must be of a higher intelectual capacity to attend his concerts ..
"ur ass needs a straight up beat down"... jahtsixx


  

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_bigheezy_

Tue Apr-25-00 08:54 AM

  
24. "RE: i think....."
In response to Reply # 12


          


> stupid uneducated ignorant is what
>u r 2 tell us
>imagine the arrogamce that most
>black folks are not on
>the snme intellectual level as
>mos or com which seems
>2 me u r tellin
>me then that the hords
>of white kids then must
>be of a higher intelectual
>capacity to attend his concerts

i said nothing about a higher intelectual capacity.

the white kids i know who listen to common have been educated. the black people i know who listen to common have been educated. it just so happens that there are more educated white people in america than black people, due to lack of government support in urban public schools.

and like i said before, but some how you managed to skip over it, there are alot of ignorant white people who only bump cashmoney. so why did you find it necessary to single out my statement of uneducated blacks but not my statement about uneducated whites.

i'm being fair and resonable.

you have a problem with comprehending.

-bigbadhanks

"i believe man made god out of ignorance and fear if god made man then why the hell would he put us here"
-dead prez

  

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spirit
Charter member
21105 posts
Tue Apr-25-00 08:52 AM

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23. "RE: i disagree"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

>this is what's happenning to common
>and and mos and others.
>they are on a higher
>intellectual level than the average
>black man and not just
>black people but white people
>too.

Sorry, I disagree with the theory that Com and mos are "too smart" for the majority of black folk. Jay Z utilizes metaphors, Rakim used to be *extremely* metaphorical and lots of black folks loved Rakim back in his heyday. Public enemy's lyrics weren't simple either. So, that alone can't explain it. and I don't really think is Com is some super-genius that black folks can't get.

>they don't sell millions because ignorant
>shallow white folk bumpcash money,
>and they don't have alot
>of black support because alot
>of black people haven't had
>the education to beable to
>understand them

But that assumes that Mos Def and Com have some in-depth education. Com is a college dropout. I don't think Mos even went to college. I think black folks are a lot smarter than you give them credit for.

The problem is this and Chuck D said it best: black folks are religious to their radio stations. If it's bumping on the radio, it's selling in the hood, period. There will be some local or regional artists who succeed despite radio, but if you have nationwide success in hoods coast to coast, it's because you're on the radio, by and large. Many gangsta rappers who never get on the radio also never get national success...I think the two concepts are linked...Cash Money's music pre-Universal, say in 96, is on par with their music post-Universal. So why the surge in hood support? They got on the radio, they got their videos aired. That's it, point blank.

Spread love,

Spirit
www.theamphibians.com

What: Breathe: A Celebration of the Life of Jason "Filli" Villaroman (RIP)
When: Sunday, April 30th 2000, 8pm-until
Where: 2-K-9 (2009 8th St NW, off the corner of 8th and U St, WASHINGTON DC, U Street metro stop)
How Much: $10 (18+, no dress code)

Featuring performances by:

Amphibians
Infinite Loop
Unspoken Heard
3LG
Team Demolition
Storm the Unpredictable (of Plexus)
Sub-Z and Kokayi (of Opus Akoben and Plexus)
Stronghold feat. Breez Evahflowin (NY)
Defined Print
Live Society
KHEMystery
In Shallah
and more...

Blessing the wheels of steel:

Taek One (Soul Camp)
Dirty Handz (Soul Camp)
RBI (Infinite Loop/State of the Union)

Proceeds to go towards the construction of The Filli Foundation, a nonprofit organization which will be dedicated to providing artists with a support system, knowledge, resources and opportunities to gain economic independence and maintain creative freedom.

SUPPORT THE HIP-HOP FAMILY, COME TO "BREATHE"

Spread the word...forward this message to anyone who loves hip-hop and can make it to DC for this momentous event...

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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_bigheezy_

Tue Apr-25-00 09:15 AM

  
27. "RE: i disagree"
In response to Reply # 23


          

that was a good post.

i still believe there is truth in my argument but, there are other reasons to why black people don't support com and mos and like you said it's the buisness.

thanks spirit.

my next question is why don't the roots and common and mos get airplay?

-bigbadhanks

"i believe man made god out of ignorance and fear if god made man then why the hell would he put us here"
-dead prez

  

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iluvmaxy

Thu Apr-20-00 05:52 PM

  
11. "RE: i think....."
In response to Reply # 1


          



>i think your "are black people
>not supporting hip hop?" is
>a weak question and kinda
>stupid. are you really wondering
>this? if you are i
>think you have problems.

at first i wasn't going to respond
to you madmonkey...but hey, i appreciate
your opinion as much as someone who said
something positive...gotta have both sides
but i do have a question for you.

why is my question weak? is my search for
an answer to this question weak, or is it
that i don't know the answer weak? or something
else...enlighten me, talk to me...and then explain why it's stupid? in my opinion, it would be stupid for me to make an assumption at the answer, when i don't know it...which is why i asked...but anyway.

okay, so then the "i have problems" thing...the only problem i have is that by what i've observed from going to hip-hop concerts i don't see black representation out there...and that hurts me because i think out of anyone, we should be supporting these artists. i never said that black people don't support hip hop...i said i don't SEE them at concerts...and i wanted why that is? i know black support hip hop because i do, and i did see others there...perhaps i wasn't clear in my post about what i wanted an answer too...entiendas?

loverespecthumility

>peace
>
>-madmonkey
>
>"I DON'T KNOW KARATE BUT I
>KNOW CaRAZY!" -JAMES BROWN



  

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MetaFakta
Charter member
269 posts
Fri Apr-21-00 11:23 PM

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14. "Yo"
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

I feelin Matt on the love aspect of it all. I have to admit that this culture is bringing a lot of different races of people all over the world together and that's lovely, truely lovely. However
It's just really sad that most black people look down on the underground and don't realize most of these "commercial" cats came from that. That's where they had to prove their skills. Now some of these cats is skippin that. I know mad peeps in the underground where I live who should be signed.
you see the most creativity in the underground. Commericial is too redundant and Mcdonaldlized for me. I was told that the music I listen too was Alternative Hip-Hop. I tried to explain to my friends that if it wasn't for underground a lot of these cats wouldn't be holding mic's gettin Scratch from millions of record sales. Anyway, it's just sad that the art of it all is not respected by my people. They don't even know the four elements and don't give a shit. They feel if it don't make dollars it don't make sense, which is fucked up. Motherfuckaz souls are spinning the a green tornado and they enjoying the ride. Sure Black are doing much better now, but disowning the underground as far as hip hop is like forgetting black people originate from Africa. Damn.....

Lord Help us


MetaFakta
B-sides.com
Southside Chicago

Grabbing The Beats By The Horns
Old School/Underground Hip Hop Mixtape
All the songs got Horn samples


https://www.mixcloud.com/djmetialready/dj-meti-already-presentsgrabbing-the-beats-by-the-horns-old-school-underground-hip-hop-mixtape/

  

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Daverse3000

Mon Apr-24-00 01:55 PM

  
16. "RE: i think....."
In response to Reply # 1


          

That many black people are really just followers, and creativity and something different isn't always embraced, by black culture. Bob Marley and Jimi Hendrix are true examples of that during their lifetime. I know when DMX first came out on Clue tapes, a lot of people weren't feelling him, but the more and more exposure he got, a few people became fans and jumped on the bandwagon. No Limit and Cash Money are even bigger examples of the bandwagon effect that I think many black people jump on. You don't hear Common and the Roots on street mix tapes or on the radio, so the exposure isn't as overbearing as some other artists. A lotta people I know dismiss the Roots and Common without really knowing them, but when i pump it in the ride they be feeling it. So I think in other cultural societies something not quite the norm is embraced and that's the reason for many Asians and Whites at concerts to me.

"I'm strong like music heavy with mood"-Fiona Apple

"My reason of rhyme applies to season and time, season of mind body and regions divine"-Common

"Still leave authors and writers with arthritis"-Rakim

  

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Jaila

Mon Apr-24-00 06:50 PM

  
19. "RE: i think....."
In response to Reply # 16


          

>That many black people are really
>just followers,

Here again we have assumptions, and many means numerous a great amount. I mean damn, I'm not a follower and I can't take the beat downs that a whole race of people are recieving. I could care less if you are Black, White, Asian or Latin. This statment is not of intelligence.

and creativity and
>something different isn't always embraced,
>by black culture. Bob Marley
>and Jimi Hendrix are true
>examples of that during their
>lifetime.

I can agree, but this was a whole different time and space. Did you live through the 60's and 70's? I mean can you honestly say you know the struggles of your parents, have you ever asked them why this music wasn't as embraced by their generation, as say a James Brown? Every generation will have scarifices, not all will be as we would like it to be. But to assume that many Black people didn't get them is an assumption and nothing more. And one that seems to be based soley on what the media has fed us about this topic. Sure many didn't get into it, til after the fact. But should it matter of the whens and hows or should it matter that they finally got it?

I know when DMX
>first came out on Clue
>tapes, a lot of people
>weren't feelling him, but the
>more and more exposure he
>got, a few people became
>fans and jumped on the
>bandwagon. No Limit and Cash
>Money are even bigger examples
>of the bandwagon effect that
>I think many black people
>jump on.

LOl, okay so maybe this is true, but could you please tell me what you base all this on? I mean I just see straight bashing on Black folks up in here. I think someone posted that they just don't attend college bound shows. There are so many factors and all that have been thrown out in this thread thus far have been personal opinions, with no real basis...facts I mean. Just what you think. A question like this requires at least the respect of some research...just a little.


You don't
>hear Common and the Roots
>on street mix tapes or
>on the radio,

Where you live? I live in New York, and I have about 20 tapes of nothing but Mixes that I bought from House of Nubian on Mos Def, Lauryn, Common, The Roots, Outkast, Talib, Black Thought and so on.

so the
>exposure isn't as overbearing as
>some other artists. A lotta
>people I know dismiss
>the Roots and Common without
>really knowing them, but when
>i pump it in the
>ride they be feeling it.
>So I think in other
>cultural societies something not quite
>the norm is embraced and
>that's the reason for many
>Asians and Whites at concerts
>to me.

So now Blacks won't or don't embrace anything outta the norm? LOL! Well how did we create Hip-Hop, and a whole style of speaking, dressing and so on? I mean really...you have to think about what your saying here. Black people, have invented and re-invented our social and cultural structures over and over.

Peace

Jaila

  

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Daverse3000

Tue Apr-25-00 03:45 AM

  
21. "RE: i think....."
In response to Reply # 19


          

I could get a lot more in depth with this but I'll be blunt. Ask 100 random black people who their favorite artists are. How many times do you think the Roots and Common show up? I don't live in NY so the only time I hear them on the radio is past midnight on college radio, when most people are at the club. If they got so much exposure they would sell 3 and 5 million everytime like Jigga and X. I wasn't hating on black people. I love my culture, I am just saying over our history what is diffrent isn't always readily accepted. Hip-hop was something different but hip-hop is so vast and large that because of the media and other factors many times the watered down material of the Hot Boys and others gets more airplay than "true" hip hop. The fact is that lately it seems like some black people would rather shake their ass than be enlightened and that's the truth. As far as I am concerned.

  

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nahymsa
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Wed Apr-26-00 10:06 AM

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34. "Yeah let's be blunt.. neither Common, Mos Def, nor the Roots set the sta..."
In response to Reply # 21


          

for real hip hop or enlightening material.

That's #1.

#2 - The Roots, Common, and Mos have exposure. the Roots are grammy winning artists, Common has been on BET for years, Mos Def gets BET, Video Music box, etc. play and the mothafucka had a huge billboard in Times Suare...people simply chose other music to like. THAT IS THEIR PEROGATIVE and isn't necessarily an indication of ignorance ANY MORE than its an indication that the music of these artists simply sucks.

#3 DANCE is fundatmental to black culture on so many levels. The fact that some relegate it to just shaking ass (which is what we were doing back in the real hiphop days of the Rooftop, LQ, US, the Fever) shows how much of this culture is not really understood or appreciated.

#4 maybe people dont' go to these shows because they don't want to be up around a lot of caucasians. When Common & the rest play Bedsty let's see how many caucasians show up then. I saw Juvenile in the Bronx, Biggie in Bedsty...maybe its the venues.

#5 our history shows that we not only accept difference WE INITIATE!


  

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nahymsa
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Wed Apr-26-00 10:08 AM

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35. "Yeah let's be blunt.. neither Common, Mos Def, nor the Roots set the sta..."
In response to Reply # 21


          

for real hip hop or enlightening material.

That's #1.

#2 - The Roots, Common, and Mos have exposure. the Roots are grammy winning artists, Common has been on BET for years, Mos Def gets BET, Video Music box, etc. play and the mothafucka had a huge billboard in Times Suare...people simply chose other music to like. THAT IS THEIR PEROGATIVE and isn't necessarily an indication of ignorance ANY MORE than its an indication that the music of these artists simply sucks.

#3 DANCE is fundatmental to black culture on so many levels. The fact that some relegate it to just shaking ass (which is what we were doing back in the real hiphop days of the Rooftop, LQ, US, the Fever) shows how much of this culture is not really understood or appreciated.

#4 maybe people dont' go to these shows because they don't want to be up around a lot of caucasians. When Common & the rest play Bedsty let's see how many caucasians show up then. I saw Juvenile in the Bronx, Biggie in Bedsty...maybe its the venues.

#5 our history shows that we not only accept difference WE INITIATE!


  

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iluvmaxy

Thu Apr-27-00 04:26 PM

  
42. "RE: Yeah let's be blunt.. neither Common, Mos Def, nor the Roots set the..."
In response to Reply # 35


          

hmmmm, i like what u had to say!


  

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nahymsa
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Wed Apr-26-00 10:09 AM

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36. "Yeah let's be blunt.. neither Common, Mos Def, nor the Roots set the sta..."
In response to Reply # 21


          

for real hip hop or enlightening material.

That's #1.

#2 - The Roots, Common, and Mos have exposure. the Roots are grammy winning artists, Common has been on BET for years, Mos Def gets BET, Video Music box, etc. play and the mothafucka had a huge billboard in Times Suare...people simply chose other music to like. THAT IS THEIR PEROGATIVE and isn't necessarily an indication of ignorance ANY MORE than its an indication that the music of these artists simply sucks.

#3 DANCE is fundatmental to black culture on so many levels. The fact that some relegate it to just shaking ass (which is what we were doing back in the real hiphop days of the Rooftop, LQ, US, the Fever) shows how much of this culture is not really understood or appreciated.

#4 maybe people dont' go to these shows because they don't want to be up around a lot of caucasians. When Common & the rest play Bedsty let's see how many caucasians show up then. I saw Juvenile in the Bronx, Biggie in Bedsty...maybe its the venues.

#5 our history shows that we not only accept difference WE INITIATE!


  

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Shaun_G
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Fri Apr-28-00 07:28 AM

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47. "RE: Yeah let's be blunt.. neither Common, Mos Def, nor the Roots set the..."
In response to Reply # 36


          

I agree with all of your points except #2. Except for "You Got Me", the Roots, Common, and Mos Def don't get a lot of RADIO exposure. Video is definitely important, but radio is more important. Popular songs get played every hour on the hour. Except for an exclusively Hip-Hop radio show, I've yet to hear Mos Def or Common on the radio.

Shaun G.

  

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nahymsa
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Fri Apr-28-00 07:49 AM

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49. "In NY, Redefinition was on the Top 5 at 5"
In response to Reply # 47


          

I mean that's shine. If the people just ain't feeling it then they're just not. I've heard Com on battle of the beats & such. He just loses. I've heard the interviews on Hot97, but still nobody's requesting his shit.

There's 2 ways for a record to break, industry push or popular demand. Though they can be related, they are not 1 and the same. The video (if popular) will push demand for the songs...and if money is the bottom line the stations will be forced to play it.

I think we have to allow for that fact that some of the music we think should be played is simply not capturing the audience.

  

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nahymsa
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Wed Apr-26-00 09:57 AM

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33. "They keep saying that blacks don't accept creativity & difference"
In response to Reply # 19


          

yeah, okay, then how the fuck do we manage to be some of the most creative people on earth with our communities embracing that creativity first only to have the rest jump on the bandwagon later.

And that Jimi Hendrix & Bob Marley example is ridiculous. Jimi's isolation was not only about his music but his perceived allegiances. And umm...all those Jamaicans Bob Marley was performing for were black...hello!


  

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MetaFakta
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Wed Apr-19-00 11:49 PM

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5. "Blacks as a people need to Wake up!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Hell Yeah, all the underground concerts have majority white or Asian, which is cool. Music don't have no true color scheme, but It's just sad
as hell most black folk support the commercial sides of things. Yo that cat earlier said most of us aren't educated enough to understand. That should tell us all something right there.Are we as a people afraid to THINK?! I have to defend what I listen to too. My boys always give me shit about listening to hip hop with substance. I tell them it keeps my mind working. that Cash money, Jiggy shit doesn't challenge the mind at all. I listen to Com, Black Star, The Roots, Hiero, Dilated, WuTang, Yo it keeps a brotha mentally sharp. With most of my people drowning in Shallow water, I ain't drowning with them. Don't they realize somebody's DEEP thoughts got us in this situation in the first place. It's gone take some DEEP thought to get us out. I ain't tellin nobody what to like, but black people are lost, and underground hip-hop is one of the outlets of the matrix of ignorance. Wake the Fuck Up


MetaFakta
B-sides.com
Southside Chicago

Grabbing The Beats By The Horns
Old School/Underground Hip Hop Mixtape
All the songs got Horn samples


https://www.mixcloud.com/djmetialready/dj-meti-already-presentsgrabbing-the-beats-by-the-horns-old-school-underground-hip-hop-mixtape/

  

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iluvmaxy

Thu Apr-20-00 09:22 AM

  
6. "i didn't know if anyone else was feeling me"
In response to Reply # 5


          

i wasn't sure if i was the only one who felt this way...i too think that black people should be the foundation of support for hip-hop of artists like common and mos...i mean for the most part they are speaking directly to us as black folks, black folks should be able to relate the best to the issues they are talking about...but why aren't we the majority of the ones listening? i don't know...i'm not saying that we should be the only ones backing it, because the words they spread should touch others as well (and probably help them get an better understanding of black culture, which is excellent)

it's crazy that positivity doesn't sell as much as "back that a$$ up"

thanks for the responses...you are feeding my brain...it thanks you too!

"all my people to be free, to be free, all black people to be free, to be free" mos def


  

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Travelin_Matt
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Fri Apr-21-00 08:34 PM

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13. "RE: Black people supporting hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Well I guess I could cover this as well as just about anyone... I'm half asian and half white and have been a hip-hop fiend since the age of 12 and am now almost 25. Now I'd like to say that no matter what people will tall you about Whites they did come with the hip hop EARLY, I remember some of the first music I ever saved up to buy for in my life were RUN-DMC's Raisin Hell and Beastie Boys Liscense to ILL. Somewhere along the line Beasties were no longer considered hip-hop, but to this day I still believe they are the most creative and musically diverse.

I have grown up listening to ALL types of Music. I work/have worked for 5 radio stations in Philadelphia, one of the largest cities in the US and none of them have been are Hip-Hop format. I LIVE for Hip-Hop, I was a breakdancer from age 12-15. I wrote graf and learned to DJ at 16 and have been doing everything to support my love of this thing as far back as I remember, I remember the b-boys I remember the gangsters I remember the soul afro movements and embraced them all.

Now how do I explain the love for a music that I dedicated most of my life and paychecks supporting, YES i'm White and ASIAN, I've traveled the world raised as an ARMY brat, I've been raised in entriely white hoods/schools and been livin in entirely black/Puerto Rican hoods/schools as well. I know what a food stamp looked like and I've tasted gov't cheese. and maybe that's why I can appreciate this culture and it's people more. I can't explain it for others. But I believe that some people out there CAN relate reguardless of color. It's all about the love of music. Somewhere in one's life hip-hop was served up to them most likely in a commercial format. From there add social environment, age, and education where hip-hop goes from there is based on the individual.

Now as far as why Asians are stepping into the Hip-hop scene I believe it's because they can relate very much to it. Asians been in the getto and they stayin there. Have you EVER been in a getto and NOT seen a Asian grocery or Chenese take out?????? Last I checked ain't no Chinatown in this country lookin like Beverly Hills. and think about this ...WHat the hell else is there for Asians????????!!!!!! Name a famous Asian singer, actor (not associated with any form of martial art or action film!), athlete ( ok baseball is hookin a few brothers up but name another?), Rapper???HAHAHA (Mountain Bros from Philly holdin the fort down), Invisible scratch Picklez representin for the Asians and are some of the best DJ's in the World. but we as a people do make up most of the world's population, Asian's make up most of the world but the world don't know shit about Asian's other than kung fu and food they be scarfin. You suprised to see us at hip-hop shows...WHY?

As for whites that's a tough question to answer. I myself always had love for hip-hop. I have many friends that are white and do this not just for love of music anymore. they gots paychecks riding on it, hip- hop is no longer somethin you turn on the radio, it's food clothing and shelter it's LIFE. Now I am almost 25, am I supposed to throw away all my music ( I'm talkin bout hundreds of CD's,tapes, and vinyl) my memories of hip-hop throughout my life. forget about all that I have experienced living this hip-hop thing cuz I'm white? Am I supposed to pick up a guitar and buy a few (more) rock records or whatever it is "white" people supposed to be listening to. (Metallica or something?) I don't understand how people just see everything as Black or White there's a lot of other races around you and they there ALL THE TIME. So why does it bug some out that hip-hop is supported by many. Most have been fed it in some form of Media since it was created. Some embrace it and further it....many don't. But it all comes down to where the heart is at. Maybe more whites and asians supporting the true underground cuz we hear what they sayin and understand. Maybe it's cuz Many blacks livin in ignorance...ignorance is bliss and right now most people livin well. I'd say that the Black population doin better now than ever economically. Which don't mean they at a point they should be but...Everybody seem to be embracin the Jiggyness cuz the economy doin well and the current soundtrack to their life revolvin around money. Some don't WANNA hear anything intelligent. Simple hooks and simple formulas will do. Not to mention that radio supportin it full force...they play what the KIDS wanna hear. The KIDS buy what they hear. they market it for the young kids and the sheep follow the flock.
Sometimes leaving the flock is hard to do but once the cycle is broken a revolution in thought and a change happens, Witness the birth of what they call Underground. I believe it came about around 95 and after 5 years underground gettin a spotlight ( the Roots won a grammy!!??) here comes the change in music. Embrace it and go with yours BUT always look around at the rest of those who were intelligent enough to break away from the flock of sheep we followed as kids. You might find that not all the sheep are white and they aren't all black either it's just a matter of surroundings and teachings. Luckily I have been blessed with many forms of education in life and music and I was born at a time when hip- hop was born. I've lived at and learned this. Musical evolution comes about constantly, it is art, it is life, life imitates art, and as in all music artists are gonna change things from rock to rap everybody adds their own spice. the flavor will always change over time the recepie will never stay the same. It ain't about color it's about music period.
One Love
Travellin' Matt



One,
Travellin' Matt
Official Buddha Monk of OKP
The South Philly Dali lama...

Hip Hop In Thailand??!! See it here to believe it... In Bangkok?
Come see me at the hottest club in SE Asia httpp://www.qbarbangkok.com
http://www.myspace.com/travelinmatt

  

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reality
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3835 posts
Mon Apr-24-00 02:30 PM

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17. "IT IS SAD SAD SAD"
In response to Reply # 13


          

it is fucked up how we us as black people can accept this bullshit and jiggy shit.The reason why alot of us don't want to hear common,mosdef,Lauryn,Talieb,Roots and Dead prez is because we don't want to hear the truth.We are a lost people we have lost our revolutionary spirit we are content and that is what is happening now with all this ruffryder,cashmoney and murder inc bullshit.This is our state as a people all alot of us want to do is thug etc etc but i say thug against a system that is always holding us down.The jiggy and thug shit is a reflection of the youth today and how content we as a people are.

  

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Jaila

Mon Apr-24-00 06:30 PM

  
18. "RE: Black people supporting hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 13


          

>Maybe it's cuz Many blacks
>livin in ignorance...ignorance is bliss
>and right now most people
>livin well.

Okay I was with you up until this point. You assume an entire race of people are ignorant? I'm a woman of African decent, and I take offense to this comment. Please elaborate for me, show me statistical facts that MANY (which means numerous or great in number) are just plain "livin' in ignorance" as you coined it. I think it's frontal lobe sterotypical views like this that continue the ignorance. I mean you've completely denounced my entire community as being ignorant. Some of you aren't even concious of the ish you say. I think you really need to slow your road and dig your grammer...and recap.

>I'd say that
>the Black population doin better
>now than ever economically. Which
>don't mean they at a
>point they should be but...Everybody
>seem to be embracin the
>Jiggyness cuz the economy doin
>well and the current soundtrack
>to their life revolvin around
>money.

Another assumption, and without any facts to back this claim up. I mean yeah were doing well, but not "everyone" has embraced this "jiggy" lifestyle you speak about. I mean we all want to live better, but don't assume we are "embracing"
anything other than a better way of life. What you see isn't always how it truly is. It seems your reliance is based mainly on what's shown to you by the media or in your circle only. There are several levels to the Black experience. You know Upper, Middle and Lower.

>Some don't WANNA
>hear anything intelligent. Simple
>hooks and simple formulas will
>do.

I will agree with this. But what's simple doesn't mean it's not intelligent. Some of the most profound music that's has lasting effects was simple. The formulas and hooks have nothing at all to do with the lyrical prose a writer choses to lace a track with. It can be the most simplistic track, but if the message is intelligent the elements missing have made up for that "simplicity".


>Luckily I have
>been blessed with many forms
>of education in life and
>music and I was born
>at a time when hip-
>hop was born. I've
>lived at and learned this.
>Musical evolution comes about constantly,
>it is art, it is
>life, life imitates art, and
>as in all music artists
>are gonna change things from
>rock to rap everybody adds
>their own spice. the flavor
>will always change over time
>the recepie will never stay
>the same. It ain't
>about color it's about music
>period.

Some very interesting points...indeed. But I beg to differ, Race does play many roles in music. Different social stratas, and cultural groups have different expectations of their music and musicians. I'm currently writing an article about this. So to say it's only about the Music, is really a personal statment more than a fact. History and even present proves you wrong.


My take on why Blacks don't support say "concerts" and so on will be revealed in my article. But see let's not assume that just because they don't come out in numbers to shows, indicates their album buying. Yeah sure the media tells White kids they are the "be all end all" when it comes to record sells, (me being a part of this media) knows the semantics my fellow scribes use to indulge a nation. The media does murder to itself when it treats Blacks, Latins, and Asians music buyers like they don't count. Sadly many give in and believe in this, and the birth of ignorance amongst all races begin. Not too long ago in the LA Times there was a big article about how the numbers about who were really the biggest album buyers stagered greatly, these same numbers reported by our so called "media" and research groups. I will be back with a link to that article.

So let's not assume because you don't see Blacks and Latins at shows that they aren't supporting these artist. And that they ain't buying albums. I mean there are many factors. Be back latah with more on the factors...

Peace

Jaila

  

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Jude
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Wed Apr-26-00 11:54 AM

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38. "RE: Black people supporting hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

a little off the subject but..I have read many of your posts and as a Black Man I appreciate your strength...I think you are one thoughtful and intelligent sister.....true definition of beauty...one love.
-Jude

I will figure you out first...make no mistake...I will be the last man standing.

J..to the...U to the..you know the rest



  

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iluvmaxy

Tue Apr-25-00 08:36 AM

  
22. "food stamp and government cheese"
In response to Reply # 13


          

i liked a lot of the things u had too say but this part i didn't understand what u were trying to convey:


, YES
>i'm White and ASIAN, I've
>traveled the world raised as
>an ARMY brat, I've been
>raised in entriely white hoods/schools
>and been livin in entirely
>black/Puerto Rican hoods/schools as well.

okay not that part but the part down below:

>I know what a food
>stamp looked like and I've
>tasted gov't cheese. and maybe
>that's why I can appreciate
>this culture and it's people
>more.

...so are u saying because u've experienced
gov't cheese and food stamps, u can appreciate
black culture? are u saying that this defines black culture? cause i've never tasted gov't cheese, seen a food stamp(well i guess i have, but i've never had to use one), or had to live in a "hood"(i interpereted that to mean ghetto, but if i'm wrong, that's fine) and i am a part of black culture as much as the next black person is...we are not limited to just those surroundings/traits/etc.

i'm sure u realize that, it just didn't come across in ur post to me...

that's all






  

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ms. nappiness

Mon Apr-24-00 07:01 PM

  
20. "RE: Black people supporting hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 0


          

It's called money!!! Think about it this way, we can't afford to go to concerts. Actually, if you look at albums sells, every other ethnic group buys more hip hop than we ever will. It's all about economics. Remember that a disproportionate number of our people still live below the poverty, so we can't afford a concert. Lastly, it's also a transportation issue. Black folk use public transportation out of neccessity not b/c we want to. There isn't public transportation going to most concert venues. Therefore, just because we ain't at the concert or ain't buying the music I know that we got mad love for our own.

  

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septa52

Wed Apr-26-00 02:02 PM

  
39. "Thank You!!"
In response to Reply # 20


          

I totally agree with you. The main reason, IMO, why Blacks don't attend a lot of concerts is money. Some folks just can't afford the ticket prices. Some people, like myself, are just plain cheap. And, some people have to prioritize what they do with their money (meaning: They got Bills to pay). Basically, IMHO, it all comes down to the money. Because, there are alot of Black underground hip hop fans, but some of us can barely afford to buy the music let alone buy concert tickets.

-septa52


"Damn! Damn! Damn!" - Florida Evans

"All My LIFE I Had To Fight..."-Sophia, The Color Purple

  

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spirit
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Tue Apr-25-00 09:06 AM

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25. "RE: Black people supporting hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I would like to reiterate my theory that the color of the promoter matters. I have stated elsewhere on these boards that as a black promoter of underground hip-hop in the DC area, I have ALWAYS had predominantly black crowds at my events. I pass out fliers to white people, black people, Asian people, whatever. Black people show up. I am not assuming anything by that, it's just a fact.

On the other hand, at underground hip-hop events promoted by white promoters in DC, i notice the exact opposite, a predoiminantly white audience. where there is a white/Asian promotion team, there is an almost even split of whites and Asians. I AM NOT JOKING. It sounds insane, but this is what I have noticed over the years of promoting underground hip-hop events in Washington DC.

Go figure...let's get it together, people...I want to see a multiracial blend at the event in my signature...DC area Okayplayers of all ethnicities, come get down...

Spread love,

Spirit
www.theamphibians.com

What: Breathe: A Celebration of the Life of Jason "Filli" Villaroman (RIP)
When: Sunday, April 30th 2000, 8pm-until
Where: 2-K-9 (2009 8th St NW, off the corner of 8th and U St, WASHINGTON DC, U Street metro stop)
How Much: $10 (18+, no dress code)

Featuring performances by:

Amphibians
Infinite Loop
Unspoken Heard
3LG
Team Demolition
Storm the Unpredictable (of Plexus)
Sub-Z and Kokayi (of Opus Akoben and Plexus)
Stronghold feat. Breez Evahflowin (NY)
Defined Print
Live Society
KHEMystery
In Shallah
and more...

Blessing the wheels of steel:

Taek One (Soul Camp)
Dirty Handz (Soul Camp)
RBI (Infinite Loop/State of the Union)

Proceeds to go towards the construction of The Filli Foundation, a nonprofit organization which will be dedicated to providing artists with a support system, knowledge, resources and opportunities to gain economic independence and maintain creative freedom.

SUPPORT THE HIP-HOP FAMILY, COME TO "BREATHE"

Spread the word...forward this message to anyone who loves hip-hop and can make it to DC for this momentous event...

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

  

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black_engineer

Tue Apr-25-00 09:27 AM

  
28. "Ever Been to a Puffy of Biggie Concert?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

If you ever been to a Puffy or biggie concert outside of New York or possibly philly you would see that those concerts or mostly white too...It is the dynamics of finance as much as anything else...the white folks in the venues on average have more expendible income for things like concerts than the average Black person....and the pool of white people to pull from is far greater than the pool of black people...

(having said that; tribe, common, most def, etc. concerts where skewed more than Puffy, Jigga or Biggie...)



"There comes a time in every mans life when he's gotta, handle up on his own, Can't depend on friends to help you in a sqeeze, please they got problems of their own....." {Slim Kid Tre of Pharcyde}

  

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2Bad

Tue Apr-25-00 06:42 PM

  
29. "RE: Black people supporting hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 0


          

If it's alright with ya'll, I'd like to put my two cents in on the convo. In my opinion, when black radio-stations were gobbled up by the larger and richer white stations, that was the beginning of the end for conscious hip-hop in this country. Remember, black stations have been handcuffed for many years, as far as the kind of music they have been allowed to play. We all know the routine...hip-hop! What is hip-hop? Basically, if you control what's played over the airwaves, you dictate what's going to be in the mainstream and what is not, it's that simple. Which is why our black-stations should be in the hands of black-folk. But, our economic situation at this time, won't allow us to make that dream a reality, because, our economic base is small. I don't know about black folks in other cities, but, they should really think about setting up pirate radio-stations in their hoods. In Florida, pirate stations are not illegal, but, you still have to put up with the FCC. I'm not telling folks to do it, just think about it!!!

One Love
2Bad

  

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justapaperbag

Thu Apr-27-00 11:45 AM

  
40. "RE: Black people supporting hip-hop"
In response to Reply # 29


          

Interesting conversation.

But what yall got against CAsH Money
SUre they may not be on a lyrical level as Mos, but what they and No Limit did outside of their album is juss as important to blacks as Mos and Common's lyrics are.

Though ya I went to a Common concert and I went to see Cash Money and ya there weren't too many non-blacks at the Cash Money.

Don't yall think that the reason why Cash Money is appealing is sort of cause other races don't dig it, sounds sad, with all this new Electronica and Trip Hop, the the whole DJ thing been borrowed just like Rock and Roll and Jazz, sound bam here comes Master P, with a flo thats all our own and something we can indetify with, even though its not as lyrically good as Mos

Oh well maybe i'm one of the dumb ones, but I don't care I can listen to Mos and BG and respect them as equals, I guess yall juss don't understand

It is kinda weird that a group like Jurassic 5 had to open up for Fiona Apple

  

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nahymsa
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1734 posts
Fri Apr-28-00 05:05 AM

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44. "No doubt...check that Trick Daddy "what's up/shut up" track"
In response to Reply # 40


          

The song's sound, the video..especially with that lil boy dancing...that's OUR shit.

  

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Finesse
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32888 posts
Fri Apr-28-00 07:47 AM

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48. "I do admit...."
In response to Reply # 44


  

          

>The song's sound, the video..especially with
>that lil boy dancing...that's OUR
>shit.






the video do remind me of the battle of the bands.... Southern U. vs. Grambling U. ...




>---aka Lady_Finesse---@

If your house ain't in order, you ain't in order" - Toni Cade



__________________________________________

tweet, tweet: http://twitter.com/finfatale
my other: http://eyeful-fm.tumblr.com/

  

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MahoganyBrown

Fri Apr-28-00 05:35 AM

  
45. "By George I think he's got it....."
In response to Reply # 40


          

I posted something just like this not to long ago. I offered the same explanation of black people wanting something (music) that is simply ours and when it begins to 'not be ours' maybe we lose interest. Maybe we move on and create something that will belong exclusively to us.

  

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Wendell
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8207 posts
Thu Apr-27-00 02:34 PM

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41. "This conversation is upsetting!"
In response to Reply # 0


          

First of all, you went to a show at UCLA, well that should answer your question alone. What is the population of blacks at UCLA? It's simple demo-graphics. If blacks make up 10 % of the campus, you should expect a similar proportion of people in the stands. That was simple, wasn't it.

Now the hard part, someone used an ideology that was born over 100 years ago (the talented tenth theory) to explain the situation that black people are in today. That is the dumbest shit I've ever read on these boards. Our situation is based on an institutionalized racism that has taken years to dissolve. White people will never understand it. Asian people will never understand it. You have to walk a mile in a black man's/women's shoes to understand the issues that we live everyday, something that you can't do.

I have a great deal of respect for the ideals of our historically great thinkers, but realize this, those ideals are a product of their time period. The fundamental argument that only 1 in 10 people of any race can acheive success is ludicrous. Just like the other prominent thought of that time, blacks should seek vocational education to try and assimulate into popular culture, was flawed.

What we are ignoring is that white culture allowed these ideologies to live because they only allowed a small percentage of blacks to succeed, while holding down the masses. More cake for white people.

The simple answer is where there are large numbers of blacks, we will represent. On white college campuses you will not see a large black turnout.

There were some other thought that I could talk about (blacks don't have money), but I will let them go.

Peace

Pseudonym-less Wendell

Peace

Wendell

  

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iluvmaxy

Thu Apr-27-00 04:31 PM

  
43. "RE: This conversation is upsetting!"
In response to Reply # 41


          

smile, it helps


  

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naijagirl
Member since Aug 19th 2002
10 posts
Fri Apr-28-00 06:04 AM

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46. "RE: This conversation is upsetting!"
In response to Reply # 41


          

The fundamental argument
>that only 1 in 10
>people of any race can
>acheive success is ludicrous


thank you.

i was too tired to respond to this post again and explain why i said "blah blah blah talented tenth theory" in my previous post, but you hit the nail on the head (the above quote is just one example of how)

peace.

  

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