the BEP hatred. Are they the best shit out? No. Do they deserve the hate? NO.

All I hear is monkey this, coon that, Fergie Fergie Fergie, capri pants, sellout, blah blah blah.

Can one of you people claiming sellout PLEASE tell me what the big difference between Joints and Jam and Let's Get it Started?????

Can someone that's on the "coon" talk please tell me the last 5-times-platinum artist they know of whose jump-off single for the album shitted on the president, called for an end to the war, AAAAANNNNNNNDDDD got them bleeped for putting the KKK and the CIA in the same boat?

All talent arguments aside, the main Fergie talk has been "would you fuck Fergie"? I've never seen her in person, but I'll tell you THIS.....as of this very time and date, I'd fuck her before I fucked Lauryn!

GODDAMMIT YALL HEAR ME???? I'm not even on them like that, but you guys are retarded with it. What the fuck?

>Can one of you people claiming sellout PLEASE tell me what
>the big difference between Joints and Jam and Let's Get it
>Started?????

When an artist strayz away frum their original sound people stray away frum dem to but attract othaz. Den when they do it even more, da original fanz start gettin' pissed off & start hating on da artist. Dat first album iz waaaaaaaaaayyyyy different (& betta also) than da new one (which suckz azz), da 2nd album (iz bland) iz between da two but who carez?

Peace & Pizza Greaze!

Anotha Keyztylebonic Vizion Prezentation!

http://myspace.com/GrandStyleDecypher
http://soundclick.com/GrandStylezlistenstation
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I'm saying I need someone to tell me WHAT the difference between Joints-n-Jam and Let's Get it Started is, because they essentially serve the same function! I was saying that since they aren't that different, that it's not really possible to logically label BEP sellouts.

Some joints that serve the same "function" can be on opposite ends of the quality spectrum.

The are a ton of club joints out there that are trash, but some succeed in making even he harshest critics of hip pop move their ass.

Like straight NY hip hop, a lot of groups want that sound, grit, and that quality, but you know there are groups that actually achieve that, and others that fall short cause their shit is corny. It's hard to put a finger on corny, cause it's a taste thing. No factual arguement to be made. Some people just don't like it.

I feel their quality declined, yet, I think it is easier to hate on BEP for a few reasons.

1) They changed their sound to attract a radio audience mid- career. If they would've been one way from the beginning, people would just dismiss them as another Nelly, etc, set on selling records from day one. People are easier to accept that if they know that is your only motive.

2) Will.I.am coming right out and saying he would be changing his formula for the Peas to get more recognition, airplay, etc.

When it's a conscious decision, people tend to dismiss and hate. Nelly, for instance, may very well be putting out stuff that is true to his real style. The Peas changed their midway through their career to appeal to a wider audience. They are like the hip hop version of Jewel. Who respects her anymore after turning into a teeny bopper. And, in turn, the majority of her fans abandoned her too. (I have no idea of the actually #s her last album did.)

Fans feel betrayed.

Some people grow, and others improve. One is often played of as the other, but fans aren't stupid. Usually it's gradual.

(Hence, why a lot of people hate on the Roots on this site, but that is another topic in itself.)

Basically, they changed their sound and incorporated Justin Timberlake on their lead single, then got The Token White Girl for video rotation.

http://50yearsfromnow.blogspot.com
MONGO IS A RACIST PIECE OF SHIT.

Who cares if she's not doin' coffee house shit no more. I'd smash her so fast it's silly.

Saw her in the airport in Reno. Very, very nice.

But that's not what I'm talking about.

and fuck it really the white girl and then they diss the black girl (kim hill wasn't it). I mean they really lost and ain't never going to get back any cred and respect they had from their kind. The white girl coming out of nowhere really killed them but at least it blew them up.

oh yeah the commerical ass songs i.e. Lets get it started just awful.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

>oh yeah the commerical ass songs i.e. Lets get it started
>just awful.

PLEASE. Anyone. For the love of GOD tell me what the huge difference between Let's Get it Started and Joints-n-Jams is!!!!! If one is on their "sellout" album, and one is on their "good" album...you guys aren't explaining very well here.

I understand the Kim Hill thing, but you gotta give the dudes something to look at. Besides, were black folks really buying the Peas in the first place? Hmmmmmmmmmm

we still feel some type of betryed when they diss a sista and put a white girl in a group. I mean they should know they was going to get a backlash. LEts get it started has more annyoing hook and sick, sounds more digitailzed, and the hook is wayyyyy wacker and unoriginal.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

I love how people can reduced a situation so quickly without knowing what happened (aside from a few interview comments)

http://UrbLife.com
http://twitter.com/FlyLikeDove
http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
http://Facebook.com/FlyLikeDove
http://flylikedove.contently.com

and you in the media know it don't matter what acutally happen but what was precieved to happen.

http://twitter.com/Menphyel7


"F you Im better in tune with the Infinite"

it was all discussed before but no one paid attention

folks just take her side because she was the most vocal about it

not saying she was wrong or right, but people just jump in without knowing facts

perceive that

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http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
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-youre darn tootin

-okayplayer since 2000

how many black folks were buying the Peas in the first place? I don't believe it was that many, so that "betrayal" crap can go. How can you betray someone that isn't loyal?


>we still feel some type of betryed when they diss a sista
>and put a white girl in a group. I mean they should know
>they was going to get a backlash. LEts get it started has
>more annyoing hook and sick, sounds more digitailzed, and
>the hook is wayyyyy wacker and unoriginal.

http://UrbLife.com
http://twitter.com/FlyLikeDove
http://instagram.com/FlyLikeDove
http://Facebook.com/FlyLikeDove
http://flylikedove.contently.com

____________________

"Keep them fiends colapsin, You know thirstin & noddin,
and leanin scatchin, they see me my actions...
I cruise by, in a Beamer just laughin (HA HAAAA!)" -- Jim Jones

"Nigga's wanna apologize, Yo Killa...
I knew these brothas was sorry,
Let's ride out, fruity-colored Ferrari" -- Hell Rell

"I know niggas that'll kill ya, fly ya body outta town,
Come to ya block, ask why you not around,
Silence every gun so you hear not a sound,
NO BOOM, NO BANG, NO BLADDTTT, NO BLOW!!!!" -- Juelz Santana

"I aint never stressed, JR's cheddar stretch,
I ignore ya rookies and upset the vets,
Have em upset and vexed... How I got,
All the heads and fiends after the E like the letter F
Fuck wit the Dips, I clutch up the fifth,
Cock back and make it clap like Busta & Spliff" -- J.R. Writer

"That's how I play mine, jump over the grapevine,
Take my chances one on one... with the canine
Steel in the clip, for anyone squealin they lips...
Fuck yall if yall aint feelin the Dips" -- Killa Cam

^^^ shit is ugly man

oh well

cause they blind.

half of these "coon" accusers wouldn't even know real coons.
only difference is the blackface has been replaced with spinners, platinum chains, and riches.

think about it.

minstral entertainment was for white people's amusment some 100 years ago. blacks and whites became black charicatures.

just because the laws were changed dont mean that attitudes have.....

blacks are STILL being charicatured-- just minus the "slowness" (yes massa and yeeeeeeea! is there a difference?)--

just because the artform is supported dosnt mean that we are seen as artists as opposed to....objects.

again.

everybody is playing "the game"--

to just single out the peas and not 99 percent of the rest of the hip hop nation just because they have more appealing songs is downright silly and naive.

check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

....just curious..
and is it possible for artists to be successful (sell, have TRUE artistic freedom, maintain the respect of their fan base and critics) nowadays...??....
Which contempary artist or group do u think is closest to achieving this success

i play the minstral card.

hide it under the "art" guide.

i got a theory called "exotic primative attraction".

and it goes for us too....

ever wonder why mofos cheer when i get to the wild part of my drum solo acting all crazy beating shit like mic stands and dancing with frank and moving all around?

exotic primative attraction.

for(un)fortunately tariq does not play this card.

he refuses. thus--him not being viewed as a marque star.

has the talent. but won't do thhe things that will "win em over" (actually he has in japan--but its safe over hear cause there is nobody in the crowd judging him (as opposed to here)

but exotic primative can be other things as well.

so dont think im speaking of cats that act all coonish and whatnot

cause i also consider thugism EPA too.

people treat thugs like horror films. as in a perverse fear attratcion. i mean we scared of freddy and jason---but get a thrill from seeing it. and we can control it.

ill get into it later

i got a pool game coming up

check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

In other words, there's an accident, everybody is going to slow down and look by default. We don't really want to know what may be inside a demolished car, but we're going to do it and why? We're morbidly curious.

In this case, if they're looking, why not give them something to look at, right?

I quote Fishbone's "Behavior Control Technician":

"Train my brain to work the way you want me to
Don’t question authority see
Be a little zombie that agrees with you
You are strapped with a double standard clip
In a battle you won’t win
And when it’s over we’re gonna dance your memory away"

Everytime the song gets to this part of the song, I can just imagine every sick-ass minstrel show and film, not only the blackface, but Hollywood's treatment of the "hula hula", to cater to those who think it's funny. The whole "they never complain about anything other than themselves, let's continue to mock them, they have no power."

"Before it's over, we're going to dance your memory away", as if to suggest that the only way people can get rid of the "coon" problem by putting on the white gloves and doing the Poor Man Shuffle. Hey, we're all smiling, rat-a-tat-a-tat.

But you know, I have a funny feeling Jon Bon Jovi isn't that happy all the time either. Then again, didn't he shave his chest for the sake of doing the shuck and jive?

Let me ask this then. Had you not pushed yourself as you have in the last ten years, do you think your current level of success, whatever and wherever it may be, would not exist today?

But you know (and this opens this up to everyone else), don't we all KISS ASS to some degree, whether it's a relationship, a job, being in the cafeteria, at the DMV, whatever? It's only due to the accessibility of the public and the entertainer do people want to shout out "coon" or "Sell-out".

Do women at senior citizen homes say "Gertrude, you sold the fuck out because you chose to go on the bus to Canada to buy medication."

"Margaret, fuck that! I'm not a rich ol' bitty like you, who can have everything handed to you with a snap. Medicare is shot, and I need this medication to survive. If it takes an unpleasant 8 hour bus drive to get my medication, I will do it, regardless of any state or national laws."











p.e.a.c.e.
-
---------
"The Run-Off Groove", column #19 @
---------
John Book presents UNLOCKED: show #16 coming 9|11|04
---------
: downloading and trading live shows responsibly
---------
(NOT work friendly)
=========

THE HOME OF BOOK-NESS:
http://thisisbooksmusic.wordpress.com
http://twitter.com/thisisjohnbook
http://www.facebook.com/book1

do you
1) feel you HAVE to play this card to get anywhere (grammy, gold and platinum plaques, successful tours, job offers with some of the greatest in the business)
2) derive some sick pleasure out of "playing" a role (or let me turn this around: playing UP something about the real ahmir thompson) and raking in the dough/success (you think) that accomplishes (and/or enjoy "getting over" on people by not being the so-called "real you")
3) not know any other way to be in the entertainment business as a young(ish) black male

not like you'll answer but in case you read this, i mean well by it but someone has to ask these "artists" (you added the quotes, so will i) tough questions.

>ever wonder why mofos cheer when i get to the wild part of
>my drum solo acting all crazy beating shit like mic stands
>and dancing with frank and moving all around?
>
>exotic primative attraction.

Couldn't it just be entertainment/musical stimulation?

I mean, "showing off" on one's instrument appeals to all people, I think, regardless of race...

For instance, you just toured with 311. I know every night their drummer took a drum solo...When the crowd went nuts, was this under the same principle? Why or why not?

www.twitter.com/seandammit

"see....i thought i liked chicken because it was delicious and tasty...come to find out that i pre disposed to liking chicken!!!!!!"

-dave chapelle.


that is like cats thinking outkast success has alot to do with the fact that they are creative and against the grain. and absoultely blind to the fact that they have made a career on over the top pop songs. the 10 million or so that copped the last album could give a fuck if boi is spitting some of the most heated up fire of his career. that shit is about one of the smartest black pop songs since "beat it". same with "ms jackson". same with "the whole world". same with "rosa parks". same with "elevators". same with "players ball".

there is a science to human nature. no shit happens just cause "it happens"---

that is what "culture" is.

but what do you think the definition of "entertainment" is?

jordan defying the laws of gravity is "entertaining"
and and1 players are "entertaining"
the dmc dj's defying the laws of nature doing shit every which way but loose is "entertaining"
lil jon is "entertaining"
dave chapelle is "entertaining"
dead prez is "entertaining"

nothing is that simple.


yall thought chicken was delicious and tasty....

but it aint....yall just predisposed to liking chicken.

check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

...but sometimes a guitar solo is just a guitar solo...Skill is skill, and I know I'm not the only one who'd be going nuts at an over-the-top drum solo if I heard it in my car and didn't know WHO was doing it to the same degree if I saw you, Chad Sexton, Carter Beauford, or John Bonham doing it live.

www.twitter.com/seandammit

people could well "just" be going to a concert for the music
and to see and support their favorite musicians (or artists).
as opposed to going to a concert to watch "objects" perform
a two-hour minstrel set.

-youre darn tootin

-okayplayer since 2000

well, not really cause Mayer is murderin Kirk from what I've seen, but since they were both guitar solos, I went nuts, and one was black and one was white, I don't completely understand what Quest means......

.

you shine through again
_____________________________
How beautiful is Jill Scott? The answer: Unfathomable.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was making the world believe he didnt exist.

How can you lose if you refuse to fail?

"If I dont like it i dont like/it dont mean that im hating" - Common 'The Sixth Sense'

Common sense is not very common.

In the Stereo:
Sizzla - Black History
The Official Jay Dee Instrmental Series Vol 1
The Last Poets - The Best Of The Last Poets
The Electric Soft Parade - Holes In The Wall
Chantdown Babylon Kingdom - King Tubby at his best

Currently reading:
The Pathology of Eurocentrism - Charles Wm. Ephraim

UHURU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Red, Black and F****** Green For Life.

_____________________________
patiently waiting for the Pumpkins to come back...

http://breakbeatproductions.blogspot.com

most of the God-forsaken fans of hip hop, are either this or that, and call 'sell-out' just to make themselves feel better. to say that outkast is creative is right, but it is also obvious that they are putting shit out that they know will sell to the mainstream as singles.

http://twitter.com/phenompyrus

Get Out the Room
http://getouttheroom.podomatic.com
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/get-out-the-room/id525657893

Mixtape, that he was being critized for working with all of these famous artists that arent considered to be in his league. But he said that he doesnt work with those artists, that he works with the real faces behind the coonery. You know, you said something simular to this quote that I inputted into my journal:

"Nothing is what it seems to Be."

And my cousin said the same shit like "dont go into some underground loving bullshit, cause rap is rap. Even those acts on the radio that seem coonish arent as foolish as they may seem."


Still something puzzles me, like that Chicken quote. I understand what it said, and it ties into my theory of how we are al influenced by our surroundings, and that we have to be exposed to a idea before thought and the many possiblites emerge, but how do you explain us OKPers? why is it that we who claim to love music dismiss these other acts if they dont fit into our boundaries of what we like (like claiming BEP is coonery when there are a lot more worse examples)? Is that just limited thinking on our part? What is the boundry between limited thinking and just liking everything your introduced to(almost like a baby)? And is there a in-between ground?

Sorry for the long post or If I seem like Im asking soo many questions, but I just need some help seeing this through.

Brooklyn...home to the illest emcees in the world. Aint no other city fucking with us.

Cats on OKP are QUICK to shit on the Peas and the like, but'll be the first motherfuckers to get hyped when "Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Could See" comes on in the club. And goddammit, if the PEAS woulda made that video that Busta made for that song RIGHT NOW???? SHEIT. People would be trying to assasinate them and shit.








>but how do you explain us OKPers? why is
>it that we who claim to love music dismiss these other acts
>if they dont fit into our boundaries of what we like (like
>claiming BEP is coonery when there are a lot more worse
>examples)? Is that just limited thinking on our part? What
>is the boundry between limited thinking and just liking
>everything your introduced to(almost like a baby)? And is
>there a in-between ground?
>

Isn't the real question now: who is minstrelling, not who's being minstrelled?

Your corollary between blackface and thugged out videos is an apt one, but the fact is where white people once profited off the exploits of poorly paid and demeaned black entertainers(minstrel era), the corporate structure now consists of a number of blacks profiting off it as well...including the artists themselves.

No white guy is telling Lil Jon to act a fool in those videos or yell catch phrases: he's doin it to get significant paper himself.

Is this worse or better than the blackface era? I don't know.

>ever wonder why mofos cheer when i get to the wild part of
>my drum solo acting all crazy beating shit like mic stands
>and dancing with frank and moving all around?
>
>exotic primative attraction.
>
>for(un)fortunately tariq does not play this card.
>
>he refuses. thus--him not being viewed as a marque star.

your act could well be seen as "just" entertainment. and those
cheers could mean an appreciation of the "extra" effort you put
into it.
your theory isn't entirely false of course, but it is a bit
narrowminded if you ask me. why not have a little more faith
in your audience?

-youre darn tootin

-okayplayer since 2000

How can someone overthink???
You mightn't agree with what he's sayin...but overthinking???...c'mon dawg...its that kind of mentality that has and keeps people blind deaf and dumb....they don't wanna "overthink" shit....
As Khujo said..."use that thing between your 2 shoulders"

>How can someone overthink???

i just think his "coon" theory is overstated.

saying most white people (he left "most" out btw) still
experience black entertainment as though they were watching
minstrel shows is just ignorant. i'd take that as an insult.

-youre darn tootin

-okayplayer since 2000

...say u feel insulted or u don't agree, but don't be on that..."oh you're over thinking"....that's all i'm saying son....
I'm tired of hearing people saying shit like that....maybe its just me...but i don't think one can "overthink" something....u either agree or disagree???

have a nice day

>I'm tired of hearing people saying shit like that..

i wasn't talking shit though. the discussion was about how the
peas were selling out. why intellectualize the discussion by
pulling the coon/minstrel card? it might play a small role to
some, but why exagerate it?

-youre darn tootin

-okayplayer since 2000

of it for comparison's sake, and to use as the basis of drawing conclusions about current situations.

that exotic primitive shit (?uest, i'm biting the 'EPA' acronymn) is real. look at the history of black music in america and you see the same cycle being repeated over and over.

ain't a whole lot changed since ofays from uptown were getting they 'exotic' on via forays to the cotton club. where you think the term 'slumming' comes from?

that's not to say that all white people who patronize black art are on some EPA. there has been an undercurrent of progressivity and, to some degree, folks who can 'natively' identify with black culture. but the vast majority? the teeming masses who are the tipping point between 'boutique' act and multi-plat? EPA, in full effect, boyeeeeeeeeeeeeee (think that PE, the blackest successful rap group ever, wasn't subtly and not-so-subtly using the EPA effect?)



peace & blessings,

x.

"I'm on the Zoloft to keep from killing y'all." - Iron Mike

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

i just wanted to look at this from a different angle. i know
about history. i just don't think it's as black and white
nowadays as some put it. that's all.

-youre darn tootin

-okayplayer since 2000

...i know i'm prolonging this line of the discussion, but Minstrel Show is the name of Little Brother's new album....
I can almost bet my last dollar that the title has alot to do with what we're discussing here......
Alot of people besides ?uest has this opinion

At the end of the day...hope u didn't feel disrespected by any of my posts mr.juice......its all love
Peace

>At the end of the day...hope u didn't feel disrespected by
>any of my posts mr.juice......its all love
>Peace

-youre darn tootin

-okayplayer since 2000

I simply like seeing motherfuckers on stage having fun and getting down.

the new little brother album????

~sicknature~ My financial skills/discipline need Jesus. -J-Skivvy

****We need more Pharoahe Monch!!!****

They never sold out. They (IMO) were always kinda corny, like "okay, at least they aren't crunk" but would I ever buy there stuff? Fucks no. I see what you're saying, Jointz and Started are ultimately the same song. Which is why I don't feel they changed too much. The addition to Fergie did make me raise an eyebrow at first, but at least Fergie can hold a note a little bit better than Ashanti's wack ass.

The fact that they are able to get their below the radar jabs in on political issues is dope too, but all in all, I think they are corny more than they are sellouts.


I may get slack for this, but I kinda put Peas in the category of Dialated and Jurrasic 5. While I would never shell out dough for these acts, I appreciate what they bring to the table, and they do have their place in hip hop.

Somebody needs to holla @ Will's stylist though, he really looks like he climbed a tree and stole the contents of the Keebler Elf's closet.




~!~

...don't even ask, yo...

at the end of the day, though...

n/m

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But where you at, I was, and where you been, I left
Utilize my experience to guide your step
Some people get love but don't command respect
It's somethin that you can't buy with a check
Over-rollin your lex or icy links that hang from your neck
If it's real, who need to deal with the special effects?
-Mos Def "Little Brother"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But where you at, I was, and where you been, I left
Utilize my experience to guide your step
Some people get love but don't command respect
It's somethin that you can't buy with a check
Over-rollin your lex or i

not that you were lookin' for approval or validation.

-----------------------
"I'm so glad I got my own
I'm so glad that I can see
my life's a natural high
the man can't put no thing on me" (c) Curtis Mayfield

their hooks have always been infectious, but i think their sounds got fuller and more melodically pleasing to a mainstream ear...they still the same fucks tho!!!

<---this guy..

www.dontdatehimgirl.com

It needed to be said.

<<<<The Avi? The man, the myth--Morris E. Day!




" Another person I admire would have to be Sting. The music he's made over the years--I don't really listen to it. But he's making it and I respect that." -Hansel
(so hot right now)


"I smoked grass once, but I don't need that. Before the accident, I drank wine and beer, but now I only have a beer once in awhile. I eat a lot of cookies! (Laughs) Really! A lot of cookies."
(Stevie Wonder)



B-Ski

http://twitter.com/collazo

they haven't changed very much and those two songs aint so different.

-----------------------------
www.myspace.com/murat3
www.myspace.com/yoyocuts
www.radyoyo.si
www.muratjose.si

that i've thinking about for a long time. And heres my take... These artists have chosen music as their career, their lively hood. This is how they eat. Therefore, if any artist claims to not want to sell as many records as humanly possible is just not being honest. And if that means not deliberately alienating and isolating the masses (those who buy albums) then so be it, but that doesnt mean they arent "true to their style" (whatever the fuck that means) No matter how you slice it, its a job, and you do what you have to do to eat. Now as far as selling out, thats simply a load of shit. That is the rhetoric of self proclaimed hip-hop aficionado(ie rap snobs) {if any body dare lecture about the diff btwn rap and hip hop i might just shit} who claimed steak on all that is "real" and the minute they arent "special" or a fan of some "off the beaten path" group then they feel slighted. They arent unique anymore b/c Joe suburb and Carson Daily got a whiff of some good shit and plugged in. No matter how good the music is, its like its tainted if its been on MTV or BET too many times. In all actuality, any one who claims to be a fan should encourage the crossover of their favorite groups. That kind of success can encourage longevity and fund more creatvie endeavors of groups that couldnt before afford to experiment. But now being commercial (ie actually making a profit off of your talent, you know, the whole point of a music career) is some sort of sin. And as for the albums being different, I challenge anyone to name any good/successful/popular (and i use these terms loosely) artist/group in ANY genre who had multiple albums that were the same?/sounded the same?/in he same style? IMHO the next album no matter who the artist had damn well better be waaaaaay different, or i want my money back cuz i bought the last one, and i shouldnt have to buy it again.

Just think about it, artists grow, and evolve, you can disagree with the direction, but dont question the motive. Why? Because no matter what thy say in the interview, its b/c they want to sell records...to any one who will buy it...we'll call them fans....

people just need to come to that same conclusion

____________________________

Xbox LIVE gamertag = jdee + jdeezie

wii code = 2770 6951 2671 6156

looking at BEP honestly, you'd have to admit that post-Behind the Front BEP have taken risks, gotten political, and stepped even farther away form the cartoonish imagery that dominates hip hop.

to steal a line from OC, "everybody is either crime related or sexual". the surest way to ensure commercial acceptance is to come with crime and sex images. You could prolly add Ying Yang Twins/Lil' Jon type foolishness to the list of commercial formulas. BEP did none of that. Artistically, what they're doin' is riskier than anything that the rap act currently on billboard are doin'. Their political shit is provocative. Their fun shit is fun. While you could argue that fergie is selling records with ass (or at least titties), they're really aren't flaunting her sexuality in a tactless, lil' kim type way.

I'm respecting what they're doin'. even if it doesn't move me as much as behind the front, i'm diggin' the fact that they aren't doin' pop rap (ex: crime, sex, ignorance). they're makin' their music and sayin' fuck what the brainwashed followers say (ex: radio rap listeners and hip hop underground)

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"I'm so glad I got my own
I'm so glad that I can see
my life's a natural high
the man can't put no thing on me" (c) Curtis Mayfield

> Their political shit is
>provocative. Their fun shit is fun.>>

although i haven't been a consistant fan of thier music as of late...alot of these negative comments made towards the peas is really unnessesarily harsh.

and i don't particulary care for fergie only because i think Kim Hill is a better singer and should have stayed on with the peas.

plus...i respect thier political stance. they one of the VERY FEW hip hop artists that got the balls to perform at the dnc, step up and voice a clear stand on where thier political beliefs are instead of being a group of ignorant nergo's who've either never voted before and/or are just now doing 'research' to figure out which canidate is the lesser of two-evils...as if they were just born yesterday.

otherwise, the peas are doin' it. will.i.am is a true musican and a rare breed that's desperately need in hip hop nowadays.

they desreve all the record sales and awards that are due to them.

I was thinking what's the difference between them naming their next album "Monkey Business" and Lb naming their next album "Minstrel Show" (before you throw rocks at me read)

They could both be trying to say the same thing. This music industry is like a Monkey Business/Minstrel Show.

The situation with Kim is not explained very well. They actually make socially aware music, Slum doesn't, neither does LB. Not to say that Slum or LB is wack or anything near that. I just was sitting down thinking about it one day and thought the same thing. Plus i've known them for a long time and they aint NEVER been on any pro black anything.

APL just did a song about and is giving aid to his homeland the Phillipines, I commend him for that far before I hate him for not rhyming over chopped samples.

I am fully aware that wack music is what it is and I didn't like the last album either, but i wouldn't go as far as to call them sellouts why strive foe mediocrity when you can be the first group to perform in Vietnam in 50 years.

People called them corny and didn't take them seriously because of their party joints, all of which I happened to like (OPP, Hip Hop Hooray, Feel Me Flow, and Jamboree were ALL sick). And then you listen to some of the other songs off their CD that did not get airplay (off Poverty's Paradise you have Holdin Fort, The Chain Remains, and World Go Round, for example) and Treach was basically the best social commentator in hip hop of his time.

BEP is in the same boat. But far less talented and complex than Treach.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Stones. Rocks. Subways. Blocks.

I feel you on that whole post, OTHER THAN THE FACT that you like Jamboree. ARE YOU SERIOUS? That shit was horrible.

But MAAAAAN. Poverty's Paradise is the fuckin album, for real.

That's it. No other reason. Their music is shitty. It was shitty before as well, but at least then it wasn't on TV or the radio every 15 minutes, and so if one wanted to avoid their awfulness, it was relatively easy.

___________________________
OL' DIRTY BASTARD on himself:
"I may curse, I may have a bad mouth, whatever whatever. I'm not that bad, yaknow'mean. Bad to y'all, I dunno how y'all... I don't give a fuck. Um, I'm a good person at heart, for real and shit.

but what I'm talking about is people calling them coons and shit. Two different things.

joints & jams = refreshing

let's get it started = dehydrating

________________________________________
who gonna check me boo?!

www.twitter.com/firefire100
http://instagram.com/firefire100
www.philadelphiaeagles.com

WHY was one refreshing and one dehydrating???? Come on, folks. Now I know why I dropped outta high school, and then college twice. They really do train us to give one-word answers with no reasons, explanation or rationale.

you would do her before lauryn, straight trippin'

SHIT, I'm saying what anyone with a dick and two eyes would say.

>the BEP hatred. Are they the best shit out? No. Do they
>deserve the hate? NO.
>
>All I hear is monkey this, coon that, Fergie Fergie Fergie,
>capri pants, sellout, blah blah blah.
>
>Can one of you people claiming sellout PLEASE tell me what
>the big difference between Joints and Jam and Let's Get it
>Started?????
>
>Can someone that's on the "coon" talk please tell me the
>last 5-times-platinum artist they know of whose jump-off
>single for the album shitted on the president, called for an
>end to the war, AAAAANNNNNNNDDDD got them bleeped for
>putting the KKK and the CIA in the same boat?
>
>All talent arguments aside, the main Fergie talk has been
>"would you fuck Fergie"? I've never seen her in person, but
>I'll tell you THIS.....as of this very time and date, I'd
>fuck her before I fucked Lauryn!
>
>GODDAMMIT YALL HEAR ME???? I'm not even on them like that,
>but you guys are retarded with it. What the fuck?
okay you would do fergs over lauryn, come on now be serious

ok.....

The Black Eyed Peas just aren't very good.

The music sounds corny and the rapping is mediocre at best.

I gives a damn if they add a white girl to the group. Hell they could put a breakdancing Eskimo up in the show if they wanted to.

But the bottom line is just that the music's weak as hell.

jkwhut said:
>Isn't the real question now: who is minstrelling, not who's
>being minstrelled?
>
>Your corollary between blackface and thugged out videos is
>an apt one, but the fact is where white people once profited
>off the exploits of poorly paid and demeaned black
>entertainers(minstrel era), the corporate structure now
>consists of a number of blacks profiting off it as
>well...including the artists themselves.
>
>No white guy is telling Lil Jon to act a fool in those
>videos or yell catch phrases: he's doin it to get
>significant paper himself.
>
>Is this worse or better than the blackface era? I don't
>know.

WHAT?!?! ARE YOU S E R I O U S?!?!
This can be compared to....the fact that minstrel show actors + actresses technically did not HAVE to take those jobs....but they wanted to act/sing/get exposure. And that was the only avenue. Li'l Jon is worse--and I don't know en'thing about his life, so I'm assuming this one here---because, this time around in the minstrel game, **HE** CREATED HIS MINSTREL PACKAGE and brought it THEM.
I'self look at it, not as "the white folks running AOL Time Warner are really exploiting my people" (as true as this is in the earthly sense), but rather "the Devil, who cannot create anything and who has been determined to kill God's creation, is really destroying all people.


taward said:
These artists have chosen music as their career,
>their lively hood. This is how they eat. Therefore, if any
>artist claims to not want to sell as many records as humanly
>possible is just not being honest. And if that means not
>deliberately alienating and isolating the masses (those who
>buy albums) then so be it, but that doesnt mean they arent
>"true to their style" (whatever the fuck that means) No
>matter how you slice it, its a job, and you do what you have
>to do to eat. Now as far as selling out, thats simply a
>load of shit. That is the rhetoric of self proclaimed
>hip-hop aficionado(ie rap snobs)


Do you have even a clue of what the term "sell out" means?
It is a given these days, that there are record labels with BIG MONEY that can get you bomb studio access + promote your album + get you on radio + video + etc. But the terms are conditional--big money labels will do this only for a particular kind of music of their choosing. Technically, they COULD sign and promote the hell out of an "underground" artist talkin about "underground" ish. But the labels selectively CHOOSE to sign and promote mind-bullshit. An mc once told me that label cats were in the room with him while she was writing/working on a song and THEY were *making mild revisions of her lyrics*. BEP made a choice mid-career to make music whose SOUND was worlds apart. (More power to them!) And people look at this as insincere and "fakin the funk". I myself don't care. (I agree with you about the j.o.b. side of things. You just seem to not understand that THIS is the definition of the term "selling out".)


____________________________

http://unclebutta.tripod.com
my concert bootlegs collection.

____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/unclebutta
http://www.youtube.com/butterinchicago
performing in Chicago on:
-Wed 12/17 @ Darkroom
-Thur 12/18 @ Funky Buddha Lounge
-Sat 1/3 @ Subterranean

any artist that promotes the destruction of or disrespects their people for the chee$e.


I've wondered, since back in the day, whether many gangsta mcs fit this... 'cause I know cats who've been gangsta mcs from the jump.... and if a record deal fell from the sky, they'd be bein' themselves..

I've been wondering about the new Fat Joe and if he's gonna do a Tupac wit' a "girl givin me brains" on one track, then a "pride in my Puerto Rican woman" on another...



____________________________

http://unclebutta.tripod.com
my concert bootlegs collection.

____________________________

http://www.myspace.com/unclebutta
http://www.youtube.com/butterinchicago
performing in Chicago on:
-Wed 12/17 @ Darkroom
-Thur 12/18 @ Funky Buddha Lounge
-Sat 1/3 @ Subterranean

>any artist that promotes the destruction of or disrespects
>their people for the chee$e.

this coon shit is going way too far.

every act, black or white, has to be explicit in some way to be
able to catch a spotlight, whether we're talking about the peas,
outkast or the backstreet boys. that means they'll probably have
to compromise in some way to get their music across.
why compromise? because a) the record company won't play ball if
you don't play according to their formula for success, and b) you
HAVE to go out of your way to draw the popconsumers attention
(bigger and better entertainment than the next guy).

so, some compromise (or to some known as "sell out") a little to
accomplish that ultimate goal or dream. for most that goal is to
have a successful music career. well, the peas are succeeding in
that way. but who are they disrespecting? and are they really
promoting the destruction of THEIR people?

you must be kidding me..

-youre darn tootin

-okayplayer since 2000

Go and listen to Behind the Front and Elephunk back to back.

So similar it's scary.

Let's Get Retarded coulda been on BTF.
Stand Up coulda been on BEPs second album.

The one oddball is "Where is the Love?"...but hell, I'm not hating on that whatsoever.

I did this post a year ago. And I'm glad someone finally agrees.

------------------------------

17x NBA Champions

to music
they were always those happy, lil`corny party kind of hiphop. they didnt sellout cuz bep was always about that since the very first album.
they are not the most skilled group on hiphop, dont spit great punchlines on rugged beats...
nothing wrong with that..


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the avy? my hero since 2001.

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