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Subject: "Okayartists and the "N" word..." This topic is locked.
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SirLau
Charter member
5517 posts
Tue Aug-07-01 10:46 AM

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"Okayartists and the "N" word..."


  

          

I'm sure this topic has come up before. But what's the deal with the conscious Okayartists and their use of the "N" word.
Common uses it frequently, "...nor do I call every nigga my brother" (Universe at War.) Kweli uses it(Love Language). Mos Def uses it (Pick a song off BOBS). Erykah Badu uses it (Booty, Tyrone). I won't count Black Thought since there's an neverending debate on whether or not he's a conscious rapper, but we know he uses it.

Surely these brothers and sister are well read enough to know the historical coonotation of this word. While I won't debate that these cats definitely come with a positive message, the message is also tainted with negativity by using the "N" word not to mention Com's frequent use of the "b" word. And no I'm not referring to the satire in "A Film Called Pimp". Check his resume.

Comments?

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Look nigga,
Aug 07th 2001
1
RE: Look nigga,
Aug 07th 2001
2
RE: Look nigga,
Aug 07th 2001
3
ignorance breeds contempt
iluvmaxy
Aug 07th 2001
9
RE: Look nigga,
Aug 13th 2001
77
RE: He DOES
Aug 07th 2001
6
RE: He DOES
Aug 08th 2001
16
      he is being satirical.
Aug 08th 2001
25
           RE: he is being satirical.
TheWallyChamp
Aug 08th 2001
30
           RE: he is being satirical.
Aug 08th 2001
36
           FO' SHO'!!!
Aug 08th 2001
37
           Double FO SHO!!!
Aug 08th 2001
38
           what i would tell your nephews...
Aug 08th 2001
41
                RE: what i would tell your nephews...
Aug 08th 2001
46
                RE: what i would tell your nephews... DEEP
Aug 13th 2001
79
                     right here on earth...
Aug 13th 2001
81
           WallyChamp...
Aug 08th 2001
40
           Huey P., conscious & revolutionary heads, N-words, etc.
Aug 08th 2001
33
                RE: Huey P., conscious & revolutionary heads, N-words, etc.
Aug 09th 2001
59
RE: Look nigga,
queenamina7
Aug 08th 2001
44
on a related matter...
Aug 07th 2001
4
True.
Aug 07th 2001
12
RE: True.
Aug 07th 2001
13
I don't get it..
Aug 08th 2001
20
Stop taggin!
Aug 07th 2001
5
RE: Stop taggin!
Aug 07th 2001
7
I know you don't speak for everyone...
Aug 07th 2001
8
RE: I know you don't speak for everyone...
erwinOlogy
Aug 08th 2001
28
RE: Okayartists and the "N" word...
Aug 07th 2001
10
HOLLA
okayheckler
Aug 07th 2001
11
*mush*
Aug 07th 2001
14
RE: To Mathmagic and others
Aug 07th 2001
15
      Amen!!!
Aug 08th 2001
22
"Conscious"?
Aug 08th 2001
17
RE: "Conscious"?
Aug 08th 2001
18
      RE: Finally, a voice of reason....
Aug 08th 2001
19
      RE: "Conscious"?
Aug 08th 2001
21
           RE: "Conscious"?
Aug 08th 2001
29
           RE: "Conscious"?
Aug 09th 2001
52
           Not True
Aug 08th 2001
39
RE: Okayartists and the "N" word...
Aug 08th 2001
23
RE: For Chike...
Aug 08th 2001
27
      God
Aug 08th 2001
32
read
Aug 08th 2001
24
flat out
Lunch tha Flat Foota
Aug 08th 2001
26
RE: Okayartists and the "N" word...
Aug 08th 2001
31
RE: Okayartists and the "N" word...
Aug 08th 2001
34
Consciousness doesn't always mean...
Aug 08th 2001
35
RE: Consciousness doesn't always mean...
queenamina7
Aug 08th 2001
43
RE: Okayartists and the "N" word...
queenamina7
Aug 08th 2001
42
conscious by relation
Aug 08th 2001
45
RE: Hey Queen Amina...
Aug 08th 2001
47
nigger
Aug 08th 2001
48
RE: C'mon ?uest!!!
Aug 08th 2001
50
      i'm sure he wasn't aware. n/m
Aug 08th 2001
51
           People, people...
Aug 09th 2001
65
RE: Okayartists and the "N" word...
Aug 08th 2001
49
Here's what I'm thinking:
Aug 09th 2001
53
god, you're naive.
Aug 09th 2001
54
      What?
Aug 09th 2001
55
           RE: What?
Aug 09th 2001
56
                Okay, so, go on
Aug 09th 2001
57
                     i'm not going nowhere
Aug 09th 2001
60
                          Whatever
Aug 09th 2001
61
                               actually
Aug 09th 2001
63
RE: Okayartists and the "N" word...
jbrown
Aug 09th 2001
58
RE: Okayartists and the "N" word...
Aug 09th 2001
62
RE: Okayartists and the "N" word...
Aug 09th 2001
64
Wow
Aug 09th 2001
66
      ???
Aug 09th 2001
67
           RE: ???
Aug 09th 2001
68
           RE: ???
Aug 09th 2001
69
well
Aug 10th 2001
70
RE: well
Aug 11th 2001
71
      Damn, I never knew...
Aug 11th 2001
72
      RE: well
Aug 13th 2001
75
           tokyo breakfast
Aug 13th 2001
76
                i dont know about tokyo breakfast
Aug 13th 2001
82
RE: Okayartists and the "N" word...
Aug 12th 2001
73
The "N" word: Nazi?
Aug 12th 2001
74
ALL OF THEM ARE WRONG
Aug 13th 2001
78
      Preach on, brother...
Aug 13th 2001
80

mathmagic
Charter member
6078 posts
Tue Aug-07-01 10:57 AM

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1. "Look nigga,"
In response to Reply # 0


          

This shit is old. But....You called common conscious. he didn't. The negativity/positivity of the word nigga is in the ear of the reciever. I don't find it a negative word in a lot of instances, neither does kweli, common, mos, or blackthought. You do. so what? They supposed to stop saying it? Are they any less 'conscious'?
---------------------------------------
RAP IS SOMETHING YOU DO. HIP-HOP IS SOMETHING YOU LIVE.

"The principles of true hip-hop have been forsaken, it's all contractual and about money makin'" - Black Thought.

"Ay yo Pharoah! Why don't you explain: How did Hip-Hop get caught up in this ill rap game?" - Prince Poetry

"I'm the assassinator of Rap" - Pharoah Monche.

"Rap is business music, Hip-Hop is cultural music" - Busta Rhymes

"...Even up the ratio of Hip-Hop to that shit they playin on the radio." - Talib Kweli

"Let's say I use my gift of gab to boast and brag in every rhyme I
compose. won't y'all get sick of that, cause I know I do when I hear those flows. That ain't hip-hop, you find that shit in the gift shop. But to each his own, my speech is gon', keep that shit up outta my zone." Andre 3000

Jordan!

  

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okayyac
Charter member
5173 posts
Tue Aug-07-01 11:09 AM

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2. "RE: Look nigga,"
In response to Reply # 1


          

nah man i dont think anyone black should be usin it.
i think anything that has a negative, hurtful background (like the confederate flag) should be shot the fuck down.

  

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okayyac
Charter member
5173 posts
Tue Aug-07-01 11:10 AM

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3. "RE: Look nigga,"
In response to Reply # 2


          

or of course anyone of any other race for that matter

  

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iluvmaxy

Tue Aug-07-01 01:31 PM

  
9. "ignorance breeds contempt"
In response to Reply # 2


          

>nah man i dont think anyone
>black should be usin it.
>
>i think anything that has a
>negative, hurtful background (like the
>confederate flag) should be shot
>the fuck down.


i'm feeling u, i don't think black people or
anyone else for that matter should use it, knowing the
historical conotations and the negativity behind it.

to me it seems like common sense...but i'm a surprised
and saddened when i see people who are willing to argue
that there is positivity in the usage of the word.

  

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peace3
Charter member
31620 posts
Mon Aug-13-01 12:55 PM

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77. "RE: Look nigga,"
In response to Reply # 2


          

>nah man i dont think anyone
>black should be usin it.
>
>i think anything that has a
>negative, hurtful background (like the
>confederate flag) should be shot
>the fuck down.

The use of Cursing is negative connotation.
Are you gonna stop cursing, as soon as they stop using nigga?



"The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good & how he treats people who can't fight back"-Abigail Van Buren

I'm Certified

  

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Jeremywww
Charter member
815 posts
Tue Aug-07-01 11:20 AM

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6. "RE: He DOES"
In response to Reply # 1


          

In that song with AZ (Life Goes On) I think it's called. He claims "I rap conciousness."
----------------------------
Off to search for RAIDERS Super Bowl Rings on Ebay...

Keep an eye out for "Fallen Comrades," the Russian Dead Homiez joint...

The "Clip Show" is gonna be the Greatest Show On Earth!

RIP DT # 58!!!

Jeremywww

  

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application
Member since Jul 10th 2002
61 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 12:19 AM

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16. "RE: He DOES"
In response to Reply # 6


          

>In that song with AZ (Life
>Goes On) I think it's
>called. He claims "I rap
>conciousness."

Yeah he uses that same verse on "Tekzilla" but if you look at the context, I think you can see he's being satirical.

"It was this cat who/
me and my crew box against/
got a spot and a glock so now the nigga got some confidence/
cuz I'm Common Sense and I rap conciousness"

My interpretation was that this guy sees him as a concious rapper and thinks that he won't fight back. But in the end he does and even goes so far as to "pistol whip his ass." I always thought Common was thereby stating that he didn't want to be viewed as just a concious rapper.



-Ryan

"Police don't sweep to get the dust out
They want your name in the system,
I need to mention the death penalty is
legal lynchin
People listen, they got teenagers up in
the line up
To fill the new facility they built,
they need the crime up
Please, the war on drugs is really war
on the youth
War on the people
War on the truth
The violent crimes rise,
the silent dies as sirens cry through
the night
People fight for what's left and not
what's right"

-Talib Kweli

Peace,
Ryan

  

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mathmagic
Charter member
6078 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 06:53 AM

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25. "he is being satirical."
In response to Reply # 16


          

And even if he wasn't , does consciousness equate to perfection? No it does not. None of us are perfect. We all have terrible habits but that does not negate the message. Dr. Huey P. Newton was a crackhead and smaked women around. Does that make his message any less powerful or make him any less sincere in his goals?

---------------------------------------
RAP IS SOMETHING YOU DO. HIP-HOP IS SOMETHING YOU LIVE.

"The principles of true hip-hop have been forsaken, it's all contractual and about money makin'" - Black Thought.

"Ay yo Pharoah! Why don't you explain: How did Hip-Hop get caught up in this ill rap game?" - Prince Poetry

"I'm the assassinator of Rap" - Pharoah Monche.

"Rap is business music, Hip-Hop is cultural music" - Busta Rhymes

"...Even up the ratio of Hip-Hop to that shit they playin on the radio." - Talib Kweli

"Let's say I use my gift of gab to boast and brag in every rhyme I
compose. won't y'all get sick of that, cause I know I do when I hear those flows. That ain't hip-hop, you find that shit in the gift shop. But to each his own, my speech is gon', keep that shit up outta my zone." Andre 3000

Jordan!

  

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TheWallyChamp

Wed Aug-08-01 09:54 AM

  
30. "RE: he is being satirical."
In response to Reply # 25


          

>And even if he wasn't ,
>does consciousness equate to perfection?
>No it does not. None
>of us are perfect. We
>all have terrible habits but
>that does not negate the
>message. Dr. Huey P. Newton
>was a crackhead and smaked
>women around. Does that make
>his message any less powerful
>or make him any less
>sincere in his goals?

Cosign. Common, Kweli and Thought are NOT PERFECT. Y'all need to hop off the dicks.

Kyle

  

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SirLau
Charter member
5517 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 01:13 PM

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36. "RE: he is being satirical."
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

You know brother you're right, these cats are not perfect. They are striving like everyone else, now just by virtue of the fact that I purchased all these cats albums, I have the right to ask questions, which was the purpose of this post.

Here's my deal, I love hip-hop, and I love the fact that I as a 27 year old male can still listen to some MC's who appeal to a mature 27 year old's mind. But I have three nephews age 6, 9, and 10. I want them to be able to appreciate the great artform. The aforementioned MC's to me are keeping the legacy of the golden age of hip hop ('87-'91) alive. Now I don't want Common or Kweli, or Mos to be my nephews' role models. But I would like them to be exposed to them, so they can have something to offset what they're hearing on the radio and seeing on TV. I would like them to appreciate the poetry, creativity, and vocabulary present in these cats' music. But when they ask me what's the difference between Common saying nigga or bitch gratuitously (as in "Like They Used To Say") and Jay-Z or Ja-Rule saying it, how can I defend that. And if I can't defend that, how can I justify telling them that what Common does is all that different from what Jay or Ja-Rule do.

"I'd be lyin', if I said I didn't want millions...More than money saved, I wanna save Children.."
-Common, "The Sixth Sense

Is music his vehicle? Then obviously he wants children listening to his music. Therefore he has appointed himself a saviour of sorts. Is part of that salvation, showing (by example)that it's OK to refer to each other as niggas and bitches.

"...Sat by this little girl/she recited some verses/I forgot where they was from/In it she was saying how she make brothas cum..."

-Common, "The Sixth Sense"

Another line where Common was clearly stating how it bothered him that a little girl was repeating some vulgar stuff that she heard some rapper say. So what if she would've been on the bus reciting "1,2 Many Niggas...", would that have been OK? I know Com ain't perfect, and he'll be the first to admit that, that's one of the reasons I dig him so much.

But people in the industry, as well as the consumers should not be afraid to take cats to task for what we may view as inconsistencies. There's nothing wrong with dialogue, but we have got to get out of that mold of making the words critic and "hater" interchangeable.

-Sir Lau...out!!!

  

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misteranonymity
Charter member
1111 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 01:22 PM

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37. "FO' SHO'!!!"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

anonymubiquity
meudontno@hotmail.com

"Just because we're well-spoken and intelligent doesn't mean we're not human."
--?uestlove, justifying why the Roots have a stripper pole in their studio

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 02:57 PM

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38. "Double FO SHO!!!"
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

They ain't hear you, SirLau! Keep preachin'!

This guy talkin about hop off the you know what... man, hop on the train of thought...

***************************************
And now, an excerpt from Chike's List of Masterpieces:

Yi Yi - Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant Taiwanese film about life, family, stages of development, and emotions. Long as hell but there's nothing to cut. Superb pacing, photography, acting, dialogue, use of Taipei... everything. If you have patience, see it. So real, so engrossing, so insightful, so genius. Did I mention it was brilliant?


  

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h20molecule
Charter member
827 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 06:31 PM

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41. "what i would tell your nephews..."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

everyone sits somewhere on the continuum of spirituality. some men sit closer to the extreme where one is dominated completely by love (shall we say the spiritual side or the conscious side) and some sit further away toward the other extreme which is dominated completely by fear (or shall we see the material side or the side of the ego). Let your nephews know that no man is perfect but that each man's duty is to move toward love on that continuum. You can point to certain rappers and say...look where he stands relative to Jay Z or Ja Rule. Listen to how much love he has for himself and his people. If your nephews get hung up on words make sure they understand that words are merely symbols for ideas and that they listen to the entire idea that is put forth. explain to them the folly of materialism as an ideal, explain to them the folly of objectifacation of women, explain to them the folly of holding onto certain words which have negative connatations. let them put things in their own order. let them determine where you lie on that continuum and ask that they remember that continuum when they make decisions. kids are smarter than you think and they trust their instincts a lot more then us 27 year olds. i let my little cousins (no nephews yet) make their own choices but I always try to put a little bug in their ears...you ain't gotta teach them about the world in one day anyway. they got a life time to learn and its in god's hands how they get there. you just do what your heart tells you and be peace at the end of the day.

one

h20


-----------------------------------------------------
"Observe the ugly mess which most men make of their sex lives-and observe the mess of contradictions which they hold as their moral philosophy. One proceeds from the other. Love is our response to our highest values-and can be nothing else. Let a man corrupt his values and his view of existence, let him profess that love is not self-enjoyment, but self denial, that virtue consists, not of pride, but of pity or pain or weakness or sacrifice, that the noblest love is born, not of admiration, but of charity, not in response to values, but in response to flaws-and he will have cut himself in two. His body will not obey him, it will not respond, it will make him impotent toward the woman he professes to love and draw him to the lowest type of whore he can find. His body will always follow the ultimate logic of his deepest convictions; if he believes that flaws are values, he has damned existence as evil and only the evil will attact him. He has damned himself and he will feel that depravity is all he is worth enjoying. He has equated virtue with pain and he will feel that his body has vicious desires of its own which his mind cannot conquer, that sex is sin, that true love is a pure emotion of spirit. And then he will wonder why lover brings him nothing but boredom, and sex-nothing but shame." -taken from 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand

h20
-------------------------------------------------
if hip hop ever dies...it will be the day that all of us who fell in love with a new sound that was like nothing we ever heard before stop wanting to be challenged. the day those of us who nurtured

  

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SirLau
Charter member
5517 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 09:34 PM

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46. "RE: what i would tell your nephews..."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

Sound advice brother...

  

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hiphopmusiq
Charter member
72 posts
Mon Aug-13-01 01:52 PM

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79. "RE: what i would tell your nephews... DEEP"
In response to Reply # 41


          

Hey man, that was seriously deep stuff, what planet are u from anyway...u chillin somewhere on one of Jupiters moon?? HAh! Jus jokin'.

I may only be 20, but Iam and have felt quite the mature one since sometime during that crazzy period in highschool, which i aint going into. Anyway, i feel that what most of y"all have to say is provocative< and this hads indeed came

  

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h20molecule
Charter member
827 posts
Mon Aug-13-01 05:33 PM

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81. "right here on earth..."
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

trying to keep my eyes open...

we all get sleepy sometimes though.

h20

-----------------------------------------------------
"Observe the ugly mess which most men make of their sex lives-and observe the mess of contradictions which they hold as their moral philosophy. One proceeds from the other. Love is our response to our highest values-and can be nothing else. Let a man corrupt his values and his view of existence, let him profess that love is not self-enjoyment, but self denial, that virtue consists, not of pride, but of pity or pain or weakness or sacrifice, that the noblest love is born, not of admiration, but of charity, not in response to values, but in response to flaws-and he will have cut himself in two. His body will not obey him, it will not respond, it will make him impotent toward the woman he professes to love and draw him to the lowest type of whore he can find. His body will always follow the ultimate logic of his deepest convictions; if he believes that flaws are values, he has damned existence as evil and only the evil will attact him. He has damned himself and he will feel that depravity is all he is worth enjoying. He has equated virtue with pain and he will feel that his body has vicious desires of its own which his mind cannot conquer, that sex is sin, that true love is a pure emotion of spirit. And then he will wonder why lover brings him nothing but boredom, and sex-nothing but shame." -taken from 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand

h20
-------------------------------------------------
if hip hop ever dies...it will be the day that all of us who fell in love with a new sound that was like nothing we ever heard before stop wanting to be challenged. the day those of us who nurtured

  

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TurnstyleHopper
Charter member
306 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 03:23 PM

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40. "WallyChamp..."
In response to Reply # 30


          

...you need to hop off mathmagic's dick.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Hobby: Shitting on stupid people and offending sensitive people on okayplayer.
Comment: If you got nothing to contribute to Hip-hop culture, then shut the fuck up before I slap the dog shit outtaya!" -mathmagic, User Profile

Eric Rigonan...eats poop.

  

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misteranonymity
Charter member
1111 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 12:28 PM

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33. "Huey P., conscious & revolutionary heads, N-words, etc."
In response to Reply # 25


  

          


>No it does not. None
>of us are perfect. We
>all have terrible habits but
>that does not negate the
>message. Dr. Huey P. Newton
>was a crackhead and smaked
>women around. Does that make
>his message any less powerful
>or make him any less
>sincere in his goals?

Personally, I think people like Huey P. Newton and other "fallen" revolutionaries succumbed to such deviant activity because the public demanded so much out them that when they became exhausted from trying to help Black folks, no one was left to have their back. So either they became drug addicts and domestic abusers, snitches, or contributors to the status quo. I think that this is why there is an absence in Black leadership, because brothers and sisters are afraid that they'll be left stranded by the community they represent when the reactionary white supremacist structure gets the best of them.

But to speak in accordance to the topic at hand, I agree that this is something that has been brought up repeatedly, and personally these are my least favorite posts because the conversations never go anywhere. They're basically one-sided arguments that become battle of wits that become shouting matches that become a competition to see who can get the last word. I'm not saying that an overall solution to this problem should come out of each discussion (because I'm not afraid to admit that I don't have one), but something a little more productive could arise from these discussions, such as acknowledging our disagreements but realizing that we're on the same side.

As far as the Okayartists saying NIGGER (or BITCH for that matter) on their songs, it's a natural knee-jerk reaction to be disappointed about someone who you feel is doing something out of character (I'm sure some of y'all have been watching the Malik vs. Nicole battles recently on MTV's The Real World). I'm sure they, just like other Black folks, knows that it's not in the best interest of our people or themselves to use such a word, yet use it anyway. It's almost like smoking, people know that there are dangerous chemicals in cigarettes, yet people buy them anyway. (the same goes with marijuana---btw, I'm surprised no one hasn't made a post about this) Although I may disagree with their use of the word, I personally don't think it should be the end-all of whether they are credible artists along the standards of being "conscious" or a "revolutionary".

I respect people's concerns about the use of this word and I do feel that it's important for them to express these concerns. However, I'm concerned about how people think that Black people applying their own forms of double standards in regards to using NIGGER somehow marks the death of our culture and our people. I'm not saying that it isn't problematic, but there are some other things we need to call people out on aside from just brothers and sisters calling each other niggers and bitches. I personally think bringing forth positive action will bring forth positive rhetoric, which means that as Black people, we will have to change a lot of habits in our familial practices and how we see ourselves collectively and individually, which hopefully will remedy the mentality that has us calling each other NIGGERS in the first place.

I know that last statement may have sounded lofty and clichéd, but hopefully someone out there feels me.

anonymubiquity
(aka ma)
meudontno@hotmail.com


"Just because we're well-spoken and intelligent doesn't mean we're not human."
--?uestlove, justifying why the Roots have a stripper pole in their studio

  

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reality
Charter member
3835 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 06:19 AM

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59. "RE: Huey P., conscious & revolutionary heads, N-words, etc."
In response to Reply # 33


          

Also to add about Huey he was paranoid and i think anyone would be.Imagine having the government on your ass watching every little move you make.Also getting constant death threats i mean that man went thru some shit that would make anyone paranoid.To me even though he had problems he still did alot for the people.

  

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queenamina7

Wed Aug-08-01 06:46 PM

  
44. "RE: Look nigga,"
In response to Reply # 1


          

again... what makes them concious? throwing on a kufi and some wood beads makes you know more concious then weavin in some dreadlocks.
Every think that looks like meat aint beef...

  

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Framamind
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Tue Aug-07-01 11:12 AM

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4. "on a related matter..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

since when did networks decide it was okay to use this word i.e. it's now uncensored on a lot of films aired on tv and such. Just an observation.

Ignorance breeds contempt.
Framamind

"WELL! I expect that kind of language at Denny's, but not HERE!" -Ned Flanders

'Fuck keepin it real, I keep it right' -OC

Supporting San Diego hip-hop! http://www.mp3.com/roundtablemcs

"No offense to a player but yo I don't play/and if you take offense, fuck it, got to be that way" -Pos


_________________________________________
R.I.P.
The Godfather
Jam Master Jay
J Dilla
Mpozi
GURU

  

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Miles
Charter member
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Tue Aug-07-01 05:48 PM

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12. "True."
In response to Reply # 4


          

I noticed that on the MTV 20th birthday, when Meth said it during "You're All I Need."
What other instances though?
********************************************************************************
"Look at you, y'so purty." FANatic of Shania Twain, on MTV

"Go mush yaself." Rachel S.

  

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Framamind
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Tue Aug-07-01 05:56 PM

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13. "RE: True."
In response to Reply # 12


          

Just a lot of movies that have aired on national tv lately. Where it's normally censored (along with other profanities), it's not anymore. Fox had a movie or two where it slipped out. And I know cable is cable, but those channels always censored it when it came up in a film, but now it's right out there (but so is 'asshole' too. They haven't censored that word either. go figure) As far as what films, I lose track (haha).

Ignorance breeds contempt.
Framamind

"WELL! I expect that kind of language at Denny's, but not HERE!" -Ned Flanders

'Fuck keepin it real, I keep it right' -OC

Supporting San Diego hip-hop! http://www.mp3.com/roundtablemcs

"No offense to a player but yo I don't play/and if you take offense, fuck it, got to be that way" -Pos


_________________________________________
R.I.P.
The Godfather
Jam Master Jay
J Dilla
Mpozi
GURU

  

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purpleone
Charter member
261 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 04:12 AM

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20. "I don't get it.."
In response to Reply # 4


          

Even when networks bleep words like 'nigga', 'bitch', 'asshole', etc. you're still gonna know what was said. Better yet, you're even more aware of the fact that someone was swearing. When they blur things like guns or nudity, you're still gonna know what they are blurring. I say don't bleep and don't blur. When you see/hear violence, nudity, swearing, etc. in movies/music, it was intended to be there. So, if that offends you in any way, just don't watch that kind of TV or don't listen to that kind of music..

peace.

----------

please believe it, ladies and ge-hen-tlemen - bilal

everybody stop on the one.. good god.

  

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Nij
Charter member
1413 posts
Tue Aug-07-01 11:17 AM

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5. "Stop taggin!"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

stop taggin these artists with labels! be it conscious or modernist, neo soul or renaissance!

these people already have labels ('artist's') and tags ('names') so why u gotta go baptise them again? u ain't their parents!

peace

nij

mind
matter

  

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5thRealm
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40 posts
Tue Aug-07-01 11:42 AM

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7. "RE: Stop taggin!"
In response to Reply # 5


          

i remember Com's answer to this question last year when he, jill scott and musiq were on bet tonight when tavis asked em why they made use of the word in some of thier songs and com replied as using it to relate to the people he was directing his music to. i don't remember the exact conversation but that's what it all boiled down to.

  

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Chike
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Tue Aug-07-01 12:47 PM

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8. "I know you don't speak for everyone..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

but if you were to respond to this post, ?uestlove, it'd be greatly appreciated...

***************************************
And now, a good quote-from-a-book-I'm-reading:

Because it is a systematic negation of the other person and a furious determination to deny the other person all attributes of humanity, colonialism forces the people it dominates to constantly ask themselves the question: "In reality, who am I?"
- Frantz Fanon, "The Wretched of the Earth"

  

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erwinOlogy

Wed Aug-08-01 08:28 AM

  
28. "RE: I know you don't speak for everyone..."
In response to Reply # 8


          

peace, I'm in the middle of wretched of the earth myself. and I think the quote you posted was choice!!! Respect. I belive that many would benefit from conversating with more books. question....is your copy fallin apart?

light,
E

"We be sons and daughters of Natural Revolution
Freedom Fighters" -SPIRAL216

  

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SPADE
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4745 posts
Tue Aug-07-01 04:58 PM

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10. "RE: Okayartists and the "N" word..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Why don't you ask why anyone uses the word nigger. What difference does it make cause they are rappers? If you what them to take a certain position because it seems they are well read, why can't they throw it back in your face and say "because you are well read you should KNOW why we use the word nigga time to time." Why would their answer be any different from any else you had this conversation with in the past or future. They are just people. People that live in the same society and interact with the same community as you and I.(for the most part)




  

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okayheckler

Tue Aug-07-01 05:00 PM

  
11. "HOLLA"
In response to Reply # 0


          

nigga shut up!
------------
NOTE: I don't blame you cats for being wack, I blame the education system!

"i be hoppin' out of Benzs with slippers on / two bitches, getting my Jack Tripper on" - Noreaga

http://www.trickology.com - ya mama loves us, so why are you hatin'?


  

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Divine Sheba
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Tue Aug-07-01 08:17 PM

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14. "*mush*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

---Real Sheba Quotes---

"I'on't fuck around dunny...I keep it thoro nigga" (c) Prodigy "Keep It Thoro"

"I'm not accustomed to wearing my feelings in a place that is so obvious to see..." (c) Stevie Wonder "Make Sure You're Sure"

"fuck y'all, i'm soulful" (c) Binlahab

COLOR PURPLE CREW 4 LIFE

R.I.P. MYRIAM NSALU VITA LUYEYE & JEANNINE ANGRAND

http://members.blackplanet.com/shebathedivine1 <---come see me

http://www.geocities.com/divinesheba/shebaliciousdiva.html <---more of me (feat. a pic of me and Common & my tattoo )

throwback.

  

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SirLau
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5517 posts
Tue Aug-07-01 08:47 PM

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15. "RE: To Mathmagic and others"
In response to Reply # 14


  

          

Well I use the term "conscious" for lack of a better term. When these artists are constantly referring to themselves as revolutionary or talking about revolution (see "Eternalists", "Sixth Sense"), they are labelling themselves. And let me ask you what's so damn revolutionary about referring to each other in the terms of the slavemaster?

Now if Mos didn't find the word negative, why would he make a song like Mr. Nigga, and if Kweli didn't why would he allude to the historical connotation in "Four Women"...(She went from nigga to black...right back to nigga)?

And for the record I do take everyday people to task for using that word, especially when my fellow black folk refer to me as their "nigga", I dead that with the quickness. Now why it's different for me to ask that of artists is because when my man at work says it to me, me, him, and maybe two others hear it. When these cats say it millions of people not only in this country, but anywhere in the world they are heard or perform hear it. That's a big difference people.

Sure, this is an old issue, about 300 + years old, and the problem is that it's not going away. With all this talk about being progressive, revolutionary, what have you, we seem to be embracing ignorance more than ever.

  

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Chike
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32916 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 05:23 AM

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22. "Amen!!!"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

Now if we could only get some feedback from the artists...

***************************************
And now, a good quote-from-a-book-I'm-reading:

Because it is a systematic negation of the other person and a furious determination to deny the other person all attributes of humanity, colonialism forces the people it dominates to constantly ask themselves the question: "In reality, who am I?"
- Frantz Fanon, "The Wretched of the Earth"

  

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bluetiger
Charter member
36723 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 03:19 AM

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17. ""Conscious"?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

unless you are asleep, you are conscious. Are we pigeon-holing today?


↑ yours

"you and whose army?" - thom yorke

¥ not ¿?

™ & © & Æ

*Alter Your Ego*

¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤

don't be fkn evil.

  

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Shelly
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15886 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 03:36 AM

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18. "RE: "Conscious"?"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

This is the term most of these artists embrace or associate themselves with when they are trying to distance themselves from mainstream hiphop. Everyone's quick to say they are not "conscious" when they do negative shit . They are so called intellectuals, yet they use the word nigger. This is a good question but no one will answer it.





If opinions are like assholes, do what you do with your asshole , KEEP IT TO YOURSELF ! Dickhead


Shit happens

  

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SirLau
Charter member
5517 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 04:10 AM

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19. "RE: Finally, a voice of reason...."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

You are right on, that's the whole Charles Barkley, "I'm not a role model" syndrome.

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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84244 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 04:43 AM

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21. "RE: "Conscious"?"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

>This is the term most of
>these artists embrace or associate
>themselves with when they are
>trying to distance themselves from
>mainstream hiphop. Everyone's quick
>to say they are not
>"conscious" when they do negative
>shit . They are so
>called intellectuals, yet they use
>the word nigger. This is
>a good question but no
>one will answer it.
>

I've never heard a single Okayartist refer to themselves as conscious, nor have I heard them say they were trying to distance themselves from "the mainstream." if anything, I've heard Mos and Com deliberately distance themselves from the "conscious" label.

look… can you just let a nigga live?

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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application
Member since Jul 10th 2002
61 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 09:32 AM

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29. "RE: "Conscious"?"
In response to Reply # 21


          


>I've never heard a single Okayartist
>refer to themselves as conscious,
>nor have I heard them
>say they were trying to
>distance themselves from "the mainstream."
> if anything, I've heard
>Mos and Com deliberately distance
>themselves from the "conscious" label.

Kweli does it everyonce in awhile. From "Talkin To You"

"niggas come aggressive with that nonsense
Yo, it's time for us to get aggressive with that consciousness"

From the Tony Touch freestyle

"They say I'm self-righteous, but nah it's more like I just
Combine battle skills and consciousness and I still flow the tightest"

Either way, while most okayartists may not claim to be concious, as my man points out they do claim to be revolutionaries. If you have a problem with the word concious in these posts just replace it with revolutionary. The issue still stands.


-Ryan

"Police don't sweep to get the dust out
They want your name in the system,
I need to mention the death penalty is
legal lynchin
People listen, they got teenagers up in
the line up
To fill the new facility they built,
they need the crime up
Please, the war on drugs is really war
on the youth
War on the people
War on the truth
The violent crimes rise,
the silent dies as sirens cry through
the night
People fight for what's left and not
what's right"

-Talib Kweli

Peace,
Ryan

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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Thu Aug-09-01 02:57 AM

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52. "RE: "Conscious"?"
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

god… I don't know what to say to you people… are you THAT simpleminded?

this is why I avoid Okayartist board.

the fact that somebody uses the word "conscious" a few times does not mean that they endorse the label "conscious MC" and all the baggage that you niggas wanna load up on it.

the fact that a musician calls him/herself a "revolutionary" does not mean that they are revolutionary in YOUR headwrap/neo-Black Panther sense, does it? maybe they are a MUSICAL revolutionary, seen?

I don't get y'all muthafuckas… getting all up in a twist over nothing.

"mek me lef dis yah place, sah" © Ivan O. Martin

___________________________________________________________
"if you are stupid as a child, you have a good chance of becoming a writer" © Boubacar Boris Diop

"They all seem like Liberace or something, you know? Totally obsessed with themselves, like big, dumb peacocks-really kind of aggressive, straight peacocks" © John Cusack on hip-hop in the year 2001

"i am the Cyndi Lauper of the millennium." © L'il Mo

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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Brandard
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Wed Aug-08-01 03:05 PM

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39. "Not True"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

Nations thread
http://www.okayplayer.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=18915&forum=lesson&archive=yes#50

"um, just because we don't preach on record does not mean that we are not aware y'all.
come on now!

saul has every right to call us that cause saul knows my mission in life (even though i don't talk on record), and what i do "preach" i practice.

trust me. i am very "conscience"(sic).

i never sleep "

-?uestlove

I was with you until i read that, now....

I'm just confused

Giving You True Lesson Moderation Since'03
******

Want something archived? thats what an inbox is for

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 05:25 AM

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23. "RE: Okayartists and the "N" word..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

And to the @$%&!s who called SirLau a nigga...

RESPECT YOURSELF, FOOL!

***************************************
And now, a good quote-from-a-book-I'm-reading:

Because it is a systematic negation of the other person and a furious determination to deny the other person all attributes of humanity, colonialism forces the people it dominates to constantly ask themselves the question: "In reality, who am I?"
- Frantz Fanon, "The Wretched of the Earth"

  

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SirLau
Charter member
5517 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 07:53 AM

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27. "RE: For Chike..."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Peace God/Goddess.

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 11:50 AM

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32. "God"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

I personally don't use the term for anyone but the Most High himself, but the answer is male...

***************************************
And now, an excerpt from Chike's List of Masterpieces:

Yi Yi - Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant Taiwanese film about life, family, stages of development, and emotions. Long as hell but there's nothing to cut. Superb pacing, photography, acting, dialogue, use of Taipei... everything. If you have patience, see it. So real, so engrossing, so insightful, so genius. Did I mention it was brilliant?


  

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BlackLex
Charter member
551 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 05:36 AM

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24. "read"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"hey sucka nigga, whoever you are" (repeat 2X)
"hey sucka nigga, hey sucka nigga
whoever you are, whoever you are"


Aiyyo, turn it up Muhammad
Turn everything up in the headphones
so I don't lose my vocals
Yeah that's good, turn my vocals a little bit
with the upper bassline

I be hatin sucka MC's, and the sucka niggas
Posing like they hard when we know they damn card
what you figure, rhyme-wise, I do the figure eight
So concisely, musically we are the herb so sit back
and light me, inhale *inhalation noise*
My style is kinda fat reminescent of a whale
Young girls desires for the females dreams
I be the Abstract Poetic representin from Queens
Socially I'm not a name, black and white got game
If you came to the jam, well I'm glad you came
See, nigga first was used back in the Deep South
Fallin out between the dome of the white man's mouth
It means that we will never grow, you know the word dummy
Other niggas in the community think it's crummy
But I don't, neither does the youth cause we
em-brace adversity it goes right with the race
And being that we use it as a term of endearment
Niggas start to bug to the dome is where the fear went
Now the little shorties say it all of the time
And a whole bunch of niggas throw the word in they rhyme
Yo I start to flinch, as I try not to say it
But my lips is like the oowop as I start to spray it
My lips is like a oowop as I start to spray it
My lips is like a oowop as I start to spray the

Sucka nigga, nigga nigga
I throw the sucka in the front for the ones that front
The sucka niggas, nigga nigga
I throw the sucka in the front for the ones that front
The sucka niggas, nigga nigga
I throw the sucka in the front for the ones that front
It's the neo-nigga of the nineties, c'mon

I be hatin sucka MC's, and the sucka niggas
Posin like they hard when we know they damn card
what you figure, rhyme-wise, I do the figure eight
So concisely, musically we are the herb so sit back
and light me *inhalation noise* inhale *echoes*
My style is kinda fat reminescent of a whale
Young girls desires for the females dreams
I be the Abstract Poetic representin from Queens
Socially I'm not a name, black and white got game
If you came to the jam well I'm glad you came
See, nigga first was used down in the Deep South
Fallin out between the dome of the white man's mouth
It means that we will never grow, you know the word dummy
Other niggas in the community think it's crummy
But I don't, neither does the youth cause we
em-brace adversity it goes right with the race
Yo I start to flinch, as I try not to say it
But my lips is like the oowop as I start to spray it
My lips is like a oowop as I start to spray it
My lips is like a oowop, yo you know the rest

The sucka niggas, niggas niggas
I throw the sucka in the front for the ones that front
The sucka niggas, nigga nigga
I throw the suckas in the front for the ones that front
The sucka niggas, nigga nigga
I throw the sucka in the front for the ones that front
Sucka niggas, nigga nigga
Aiyyo Shaheed, take us the fuck outta here

  

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Lunch tha Flat Foota

Wed Aug-08-01 07:36 AM

  
26. "flat out"
In response to Reply # 0


          

fuck any black person who thinks it's cool to use that word. but it aint nothing negative in that sentence.

  

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Question
Member since Feb 21st 2003
1 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 10:07 AM

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31. "RE: Okayartists and the "N" word..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

>I'm sure this topic has come
>up before. But what's
>the deal with the conscious
>Okayartists and their use of
>the "N" word.
>Common uses it frequently, "...nor do
>I call every nigga my
>brother" (Universe at War.)
> Kweli uses it(Love Language).

Why do you have such a problem with that? And what MC do you know that DOESN'T use it (besides a white MC). I feel like it's overused.. yes, but the word (in todays time) has been redefined as a sign of endearment. So Comm and Kweli using it is obviously only in refrence to specific black people (most likely males).

> Mos Def uses it
>(Pick a song off BOBS).
> Erykah Badu uses it
>(Booty, Tyrone).

Neither of these people are Okayartists, and again, it's obvious that they are trying to relate to the black community (not saying everybody in the black community uses it or likes it), but I see their use of it almost as a "brother/sisterhood", whether some people find it degrading or not.

I won't
>count Black Thought since there's
>an neverending debate on whether
>or not he's a conscious
>rapper, but we know he
>uses it.

I've never heard ANY Okayartist call themselves conscious. If anything, Black Thought is a battle MC with songs about love and corruption on occasion. That doesn't make him "conscious" or perfect.

>Surely these brothers and sister are
>well read enough to know
>the historical coonotation of this
>word. While I won't
>debate that these cats definitely
>come with a positive message,
>the message is also tainted
>with negativity by using the
>"N" word not to mention
>Com's frequent use of the
>"b" word.

Well I personally don't like Comm's use of the "B" word, so I can't disagree with everything there. It all depends on perspective, really. A lot of cats and girls in the streets refer to themselves as "Bs" and "Ns" as a "brother/sisterhood" (like I previously said). I'm sure they're aware that it's not the most positive thing to call ones self, but I'm also sure it makes them feel more related to each other.. as my sister has greeted me with the "N" word on different occasions.

And no
>I'm not referring to the
>satire in "A Film Called
>Pimp". Check his resume.

I won't even TRY to defend that song.

>Comments?

Well like I said, it's all about perspective. If you feel like it's degrading.. then state your point to black people about how you feel. And for the record, "Nigger" and "Nigga" are generally seen as two different words, with two different definitions. Right now I'm a bit crossed as to whether it's degrading or not. I certainly don't use the word on a constant basis, but again.. it's just the 'relative' factor of it.. like when cats were calling each other "cousin" or "cuz" a few years back.

This is something to think about though.. mos def'.

Peace
"Two columns for who is, and who ain't niggas" -Mos Def (oops).

  

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SirLau
Charter member
5517 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 12:53 PM

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34. "RE: Okayartists and the "N" word..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

Brother, you missed the point...

  

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Nettrice
Charter member
61747 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 01:11 PM

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35. "Consciousness doesn't always mean..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

...intellectual or moral or uplifting. Rappers are mindful of the words they use unless they are freestyling (off the top). Rappers are deliberate with the words they use, including the word nigga. The n word is part of a past steeped in white supremacy and many people have not come to terms with this.

Rappers are no different than you or I. Common is just that- common or like everyone else. Common is a brother who is trying to work it out in his music, his rhymes. Working it out includes dealing with the power of the word and dealing with conditioning that allows us to use words like nigga without thinking about what we are really calling other people and ourselves.

Ever notice how Rakim could drop some serious, perhaps "conscious" rhymes without using profanity or the "n" word?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

"It amuses me when people read into instead of understand what I write or say or assume who I am. People will look at me and think it's cute that I say I am an artist until they ask me what schools I went to and discover I am serious...I am serious about everything I do and say and write including my posts, generalizations, ironies and all. That is integrity. Everything is real, sincere including my name on these boards."
--Me

"Know thyself"

"Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you". So we may boldly say, "The Lord is my helper, I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
-- Hebrews 13:5,6

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"
--Morpheus in "The Matrix"

"It's our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities"- Dumbledore to Harry Potter "Chamber of Secrets"

<--- Blame this lady for Nutty.

  

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queenamina7

Wed Aug-08-01 06:45 PM

  
43. "RE: Consciousness doesn't always mean..."
In response to Reply # 35


          

again... what makes them concious? throwing on a kufi and some wood beads makes you know more concious then weavin in some dreadlocks.

Every think that looks like meat aint beef...

  

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queenamina7

Wed Aug-08-01 06:44 PM

  
42. "RE: Okayartists and the "N" word..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

What makes these artists "concious"... esp. common?

  

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h20molecule
Charter member
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Wed Aug-08-01 07:02 PM

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45. "conscious by relation"
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

i think someone like common is considered conscious in the way he relates to the mainstream. if the mainstream represents the middle then he is conscious by virtue of being left of them on the continuum of consciousness. you put him next to BBJAY (christian rapper) and maybe he seems not so conscious. a lot of times people put their own labels on folks and then expect others to follow the suit of the label they never asked for...and even if a man takes a name for himself his actions dictate what kind of man he is. puffy been talking about jesus for years but look at what his actions state...ultimately you just take the sum total of what a man has created and done and that is what he is...not some label. Therefore Common is a brother more in touch with his spiritual self then most people in his line of work who hasn't come so far as to shrug off words like nigga and bitch, not that is evidence of how far a man has come anyway...

I went into more detail in my post above...check #41.

h20

-----------------------------------------------------
"Observe the ugly mess which most men make of their sex lives-and observe the mess of contradictions which they hold as their moral philosophy. One proceeds from the other. Love is our response to our highest values-and can be nothing else. Let a man corrupt his values and his view of existence, let him profess that love is not self-enjoyment, but self denial, that virtue consists, not of pride, but of pity or pain or weakness or sacrifice, that the noblest love is born, not of admiration, but of charity, not in response to values, but in response to flaws-and he will have cut himself in two. His body will not obey him, it will not respond, it will make him impotent toward the woman he professes to love and draw him to the lowest type of whore he can find. His body will always follow the ultimate logic of his deepest convictions; if he believes that flaws are values, he has damned existence as evil and only the evil will attact him. He has damned himself and he will feel that depravity is all he is worth enjoying. He has equated virtue with pain and he will feel that his body has vicious desires of its own which his mind cannot conquer, that sex is sin, that true love is a pure emotion of spirit. And then he will wonder why lover brings him nothing but boredom, and sex-nothing but shame." -taken from 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand

h20
-------------------------------------------------
if hip hop ever dies...it will be the day that all of us who fell in love with a new sound that was like nothing we ever heard before stop wanting to be challenged. the day those of us who nurtured

  

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SirLau
Charter member
5517 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 09:40 PM

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47. "RE: Hey Queen Amina..."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

I wish you would give us all the "Silent Treatment".

  

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qoolquest
Charter member
10251 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 10:17 PM

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48. "nigger"
In response to Reply # 0


          

"makes my teeth white just to say it.....NIGGER!"
-MR. PAUL MOONEY

check the resume

organix-93
(from the ground up)-94
do you want more?!!???!-95
illadelph halflife-96
things fall apart-99
(the legendary)-99
the roots come alive-99
phrenology-2002
the tipping point-2004
(the roots present...) 2004
homegrown: the beginne

  

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SirLau
Charter member
5517 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 10:40 PM

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50. "RE: C'mon ?uest!!!"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

Don't you have a tour journal to work on or something? By the way did you hear how Missy sampled Fela's "Colonial Mentality" on her latest album? I forget which cut, but what do you think.

  

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chocolateboywonder
Charter member
211 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 10:50 PM

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51. "i'm sure he wasn't aware. n/m"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

me.
http://newelement.org/ohsonappy/

www.rappersiknow.com
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj
and sometimes facebook

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 01:43 PM

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65. "People, people..."
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

?uest can speak for himself!!! You wouldn't pretend to know stuff like that for anyone else. "I'm sure SirLau doesn't know who Fela Kuti is..." Gimme a break with that stuff!

***************************************
And now, an excerpt from Chike's List of Masterpieces:

Yi Yi - Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant Taiwanese film about life, family, stages of development, and emotions. Long as hell but there's nothing to cut. Superb pacing, photography, acting, dialogue, use of Taipei... everything. If you have patience, see it. So real, so engrossing, so insightful, so genius. Did I mention it was brilliant?


  

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chocolateboywonder
Charter member
211 posts
Wed Aug-08-01 10:29 PM

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49. "RE: Okayartists and the "N" word..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

just don't let mummy dearest hear you

words are just uttered sounds. you take offense to what you want to.

i think boogerhead is a better word myself, but i don't think it'll catch on.

me.
http://newelement.org/ohsonappy/

www.rappersiknow.com
www.flickr.com/photos/fwmj
www.myspace.com/fwmj
and sometimes facebook

  

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FunkyRenegade
Charter member
1947 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 03:55 AM

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53. "Here's what I'm thinking:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

While listenin to Outkast's new record, it occurred to me that these cats and a lot of other artists basically throw the word into their joints so that Black people will have something to relate to. But we all know that Andre entertains some of Big Boi's more...ahem...radical ideas because he doesn't want to alienate the masses of hip-hop listeners when he goes out on a limb. That's why I think Okayartists use the word in their music.

I can only imagine what music would be like if 10 of the more popular artists in rap and R & B didn't use the word on their new joints. Black people would still buy the records.

What I try to do is accept the positive of an artist with the negative. Most artists will display some of both...like, Badu uses the word "nigga" on Booty because it rhymes with "bigger," but she also explores music boldly on her new joint. Or P-Diddy in his prime achieved some commercial goals for himself and his crew when they all dropped joints, but they did it while putting the concepts of hate and jealousy at the forefront of their music, increasing the coldheartedness that dominates Black radio now.

"It's after the end of the world. Don't you know that yet?" - Sun Ra

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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84244 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 04:46 AM

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54. "god, you're naive."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

unless you're joking.

I hope to god you're joking with this.
___________________________________________________________
"if you are stupid as a child, you have a good chance of becoming a writer" © Boubacar Boris Diop

"They all seem like Liberace or something, you know? Totally obsessed with themselves, like big, dumb peacocks-really kind of aggressive, straight peacocks" © John Cusack on hip-hop in the year 2001

"i am the Cyndi Lauper of the millennium." © L'il Mo

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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FunkyRenegade
Charter member
1947 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 05:35 AM

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55. "What?"
In response to Reply # 54


          

What part or parts of my post are you criticizing? Explain yourself.

"It's after the end of the world. Don't you know that yet?" - Sun Ra

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 05:58 AM

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56. "RE: What?"
In response to Reply # 55


  

          

>What part or parts of my
>post are you criticizing? Explain
>yourself.
>

the idea that you believe that OutKast or the Okayartists deliberately use the word "nigga" in order to "appeal to the black masses."

especially the idea that Andre probably uses it only offset his weirdness. forget the funny clothes and wigs and shit.. Dre is a straight ghetto child. don't be fooled.


___________________________________________________________
"if you are stupid as a child, you have a good chance of becoming a writer" © Boubacar Boris Diop

"They all seem like Liberace or something, you know? Totally obsessed with themselves, like big, dumb peacocks-really kind of aggressive, straight peacocks" © John Cusack on hip-hop in the year 2001

"i am the Cyndi Lauper of the millennium." © L'il Mo

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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FunkyRenegade
Charter member
1947 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 06:04 AM

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57. "Okay, so, go on"
In response to Reply # 56


          

You're acting like young Black people in the cities and in general don't relate to each other with the word, or that they don't identify with records that use the word...so what's your real point sir? The realism issue is basically a Catch-22. So what's your point? Go ahead and say it...I think I know where you're gonna go, and believe me, I'm not naive.

"It's after the end of the world. Don't you know that yet?" - Sun Ra

  

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AFKAP_of_Darkness
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84244 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 06:41 AM

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60. "i'm not going nowhere"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

I said what I had to say.

what you said sounded mad naïve. end of story.

___________________________________________________________
"if you are stupid as a child, you have a good chance of becoming a writer" © Boubacar Boris Diop

"They all seem like Liberace or something, you know? Totally obsessed with themselves, like big, dumb peacocks-really kind of aggressive, straight peacocks" © John Cusack on hip-hop in the year 2001

"i am the Cyndi Lauper of the millennium." © L'il Mo

_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

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FunkyRenegade
Charter member
1947 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 06:58 AM

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61. "Whatever"
In response to Reply # 60


          

I don't care what you think about me, really, I don't. You didn't quote from my post. You took some of my ideas out of context or you turned them into something else and then you passed a little weak-ass judgement on what you came up with. I couldn't care less what you think of me.

The end.

  

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h20molecule
Charter member
827 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 07:53 AM

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63. "actually"
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

if you didn't care what he thought you wouldn't have replied...

i must agree naive was a strong word and he was condescending about it but you got defensive and paranoid on the other cat. you sounded like you were taking him personally and all i can tell you is don't take anything said to you on here personally...people are responding to their own assumptions and what they think they see in other peoples words. man don't have enough information to judge your thought process and your expereince from three paragraphs...and you should know this...

if anything is naive...its probably thinking that you can figure out someone's general character from a few words posted about a controversial topic...not saying the other cat really did this either.

h20

-----------------------------------------------------
"Observe the ugly mess which most men make of their sex lives-and observe the mess of contradictions which they hold as their moral philosophy. One proceeds from the other. Love is our response to our highest values-and can be nothing else. Let a man corrupt his values and his view of existence, let him profess that love is not self-enjoyment, but self denial, that virtue consists, not of pride, but of pity or pain or weakness or sacrifice, that the noblest love is born, not of admiration, but of charity, not in response to values, but in response to flaws-and he will have cut himself in two. His body will not obey him, it will not respond, it will make him impotent toward the woman he professes to love and draw him to the lowest type of whore he can find. His body will always follow the ultimate logic of his deepest convictions; if he believes that flaws are values, he has damned existence as evil and only the evil will attact him. He has damned himself and he will feel that depravity is all he is worth enjoying. He has equated virtue with pain and he will feel that his body has vicious desires of its own which his mind cannot conquer, that sex is sin, that true love is a pure emotion of spirit. And then he will wonder why lover brings him nothing but boredom, and sex-nothing but shame." -taken from 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand

h20
-------------------------------------------------
if hip hop ever dies...it will be the day that all of us who fell in love with a new sound that was like nothing we ever heard before stop wanting to be challenged. the day those of us who nurtured

  

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jbrown

Thu Aug-09-01 06:10 AM

  
58. "RE: Okayartists and the "N" word..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

>I'm sure this topic has come
>up before. But what's
>the deal with the conscious
>Okayartists and their use of
>the "N" word.

the use of the word "nigga" is ridiculous to me... a word that people used to dehumanize us...we now use as a term of endearment...that's some bullshit...but in regard to the okayartists...what are they conscious of? we keep throwing around this word ...what are they so conscious of? what makes them conscious? because they know a little history and dress a certain way? because they speak out against some sort of injustice?

one love
good question...



  

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Leffield
Member since Oct 25th 2002
4 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 07:51 AM

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62. "RE: Okayartists and the "N" word..."
In response to Reply # 58


          

It's disappointing that more people (including artists) don't understand connotation and subtlety.

This fact that in many circles "nigga" is now a term of endearment reflects our problems with self-identity.

The language you use is always a personal choice...people who just go with the flow are apathatic and essentially saying they don't give a damn, especially in situations where the smallest change (or omission) could make a profound point.

If it wasnt such a concern, some of you would really crack me up.

jazzed_out@yahoo.com


Leffield
Societal Southpaws
*****************************************************************

Time Waits For No One

Master Of My Domain

  

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JahSeed
Charter member
402 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 08:32 AM

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64. "RE: Okayartists and the "N" word..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Okayartists aren't different from anybody else. Nigga is a word we've all been conditioned to use and, as a result, we give it positive meaning so that we don't feel so encumbered to stop using it...plain and simple...

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 01:53 PM

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66. "Wow"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

This reply was a great example of why you should speak for yourself...

>Okayartists aren't different from anybody else.
> Nigga is a word
>we've all been conditioned to
>use and,

I sure as hell haven't been conditioned to use it. Now granted, I don't live in America. I used to sadly accept that the word must be common down there and therefore people can't help saying it. But I've realized I was being naive. You have as much a choice about whether you say it as I do...

>as a result,
>we give it positive meaning
>so that we don't feel
>so encumbered to stop using
>it...

Its use is not positive. Just because it can mean "friend" in certain situations, that doesn't mean it's a compliment otherwise. And the point is, the roots just don't go away... as far as feeling encumbered to stop using it, well, see my first sentence.

>plain and simple...

Those are two things this debate will never be...

***************************************
And now, an excerpt from Chike's List of Masterpieces:

Yi Yi - Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant Taiwanese film about life, family, stages of development, and emotions. Long as hell but there's nothing to cut. Superb pacing, photography, acting, dialogue, use of Taipei... everything. If you have patience, see it. So real, so engrossing, so insightful, so genius. Did I mention it was brilliant?

  

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mathmagic
Charter member
6078 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 02:11 PM

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67. "???"
In response to Reply # 66


          

>This reply was a great example
>of why you should speak
>for yourself...

I think you should take your own advice, dude.


>>as a result,
>>we give it positive meaning
>>so that we don't feel
>>so encumbered to stop using
>>it...
>
>Its use is not positive.

how can YOU possibly define a word that millions of people use? That's what I don't get.

>Just because it can mean
>"friend" in certain situations, that
>doesn't mean it's a compliment
>otherwise. And the point
>is, the roots just don't
>go away... as far as
>feeling encumbered to stop using
>it, well, see my first
>sentence.

A word, any word, only possesses as much meaning as the person who uses it. If you don't like the use of the word, just don't say it. that's fine. But don't tell everyone else that they're wrong for using a word. This reminds me of the whole ebonics vs "good english" battle. No word or language is wrong if it is successfully used to communicate.

Jordan!

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 02:43 PM

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68. "RE: ???"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

>I think you should take your
>own advice, dude.

I wouldn't disagree... if I had the slightest idea at what point I didn't take my own advice!

>>>as a result,
>>>we give it positive meaning
>>>so that we don't feel
>>>so encumbered to stop using
>>>it...
>>
>>Its use is not positive.
>
>how can YOU possibly define a
>word that millions of people
>use? That's what I don't
>get.

I can give my opinion or perception of its use. What's wrong with that? Isn't that what you're doing? Isn't that what everyone who has contributed to this discussion is doing?

>A word, any word, only possesses
>as much meaning as the
>person who uses it. If
>you don't like the use
>of the word, just don't
>say it. that's fine. But
>don't tell everyone else that
>they're wrong for using a
>word. This reminds me of
>the whole ebonics vs "good
>english" battle. No word or
>language is wrong if it
>is successfully used to communicate.

To me, that is a very faulty theory (the part about words, I mean - I agree regarding language). To use a very simple example of why (I could come up with a better one if I wasn't so lazy), if I call you a horrible name, I've communicated with or to you. Obviously I have, because you know that I have disrespected you. And all the chanting of "sticks and stones" cannot remove the negative prefix from "disrespect". Similarly, how can it not be good for me to show you respect?

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=jas+3:5&version=rsv&context=1&showtools=1

***************************************
And now, an excerpt from Chike's List of Masterpieces:

Yi Yi - Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant Taiwanese film about life, family, stages of development, and emotions. Long as hell but there's nothing to cut. Superb pacing, photography, acting, dialogue, use of Taipei... everything. If you have patience, see it. So real, so engrossing, so insightful, so genius. Did I mention it was brilliant?


  

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tsalagi215
Member since Oct 31st 2002
2 posts
Thu Aug-09-01 03:01 PM

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69. "RE: ???"
In response to Reply # 67


          

my whole thing is about the Nigger/Nigga word is this.
I thank god for the people in my life. Grant it I grew up "ghetto fab" in southwest Philly, but my parents made sure that I didnt have the ghetto mental. Personally I think that the "N" word is ghetto and it is ignorant. My grandmother is a Ocanaluftee Tsalagi from Lenore North Carolina. She grew up in the heart of the south and she knew racisim and the many things that came along with being what she was or what the white man classified her as a "straight haired nigger". Her being a straight hair nigger almost cost her her life and it also subjected her to many other horrible things. She never forgot the name and she made sure that her children didn't forget and in turn my momma never let me forget where the word came from. Looking at newspaper clippings of black people who strived not be labeled as niggers getting beaten or engulfed by firehosing all because they wanted to break the label and try to stand tall as a people. These things I don't forget. I am proud of the fact that I can speak my native tsalagi, as well as cantonese. It's with that knowledge, that I can think of more positive things to call my African American brothers and sisters. I'm not saying you have to learn other languages to feel better or to think of a better word than nigger... my brother or my sister is just fine... I can't judge you if you call me nigga, but in the same token I can't love ya either.

Tohiya (be in good health always people)

  

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atruhead
Charter member
85230 posts
Fri Aug-10-01 08:59 PM

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70. "well"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

they're modern day african american mcs

and its a modern day african american term, changed from negative to just an existing term about your mans n them

no eminem and el producto cant say it



  

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tsalagi215
Member since Oct 31st 2002
2 posts
Sat Aug-11-01 10:23 AM

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71. "RE: well"
In response to Reply # 70


          

I know and thats the problem. you got white people at parties comming up to you saying whats up my nigga? that shit don't float. It's a thing where even people in other parts of the world are taking it and saying it. when ever you get a chance look on the net for a old japanese pilot called "Tokyo Breakfast"
you will see what I mean. I got family over in Japan, cousins telling me that they hear them saying it now too. Oh yeah it's just a word... So is Honkie, Cracker, Spic, and Gook/Chink, but you dont hear everybody flippin it to their friends on a daily basis. I have a girlfriend that is chinese her white friends called her "chigger". The first time I heard them say it was the last time I heard them say it. Like i said, mebbie it's just me, but I feel the word should not be used as a "term of endearment". I wouldn't tell my girl that she is my "chink"... shit she would've kicked my ass.

  

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truth0ne
Charter member
11818 posts
Sat Aug-11-01 04:27 PM

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72. " Damn, I never knew..."
In response to Reply # 71


          

.___________
/.\..............\.\.__
l...l..............l.l=_o)
\_/________/_/

Profile of a Tagger
Some indications that your child may be a tagger are:

Your child stays out until early morning or all night.
Your child frequently wears a large back pack or baggy pants.
Clothing may be paint stained.
Packs and loose clothing can be used to hold paint cans or carry graffiti tools.
Your child carries tools used for etching glass like hole punches, rocks, glass cutters, screw drivers, awls, metal scribes or other sharp object. (Your child may not be able to explain exactly why he or she has this in their possession.
Your child has taken up the hobby of ink making.
Your child has large quantities of magic markers, shoe polish containers, or other devices used for drawing.
Your child sleeps during the day and is active outdoors at night.
Your child has paint on the tips of his/her fingers.
Your child frequently has permanent marker stains on his/her hands.
Your child has graffiti magazines, flyers, a "piece book," or other portfolio of tags.
Your child possesses large quantities of "My Name Is" stickers or other large stickers used for "sticker tagging."
Your child is in possession of graffiti paraphernalia such as markers, etching tools, spray paint, bug spray and starch cans. The bug spray cans are used to make tags that will only show up in the rain.
Your child is in the age group statistically associated with tagging, ages 12-18 (sometimes older).
Your child has graffiti displays or tags on clothing, binders, backpacks, and the underside of the bill of their hat.
Tags you see on the walls of your neighborhood are seen on your child's walls, books, and clothing.
Your child is frequently deceitful about his/her activities.
Your child has quantities of paint in cans but does not have the income to afford it.
Your child associates with other children with the traits described above.
Your child's Internet web browser has bookmarks to graffiti advocate web sites.
Your child has photographs of graffiti and tags on walls that look familiar to you.
Your child actively reads the alt.graffiti newsgroup.

Remember that taggers come from every race, religion,
social group, as well as from every socioeconomic status.


  

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masterbagger
Charter member
3 posts
Mon Aug-13-01 08:02 AM

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75. "RE: well"
In response to Reply # 71


          

holy shxt, i just downloaded the Tokyo Breakfast thing... go to http://www.mysterymeatgrinder.com/tokyo_breakfast.asp and get this NOW. If y'all don't see a problem w/nigga yet, you damn well should after seeing this! It's straight up on a Bamboozled tip, only real. Yeah, watch that movie too! Folx say it can't happen... i'unno, shxt just ain't a joke.



"...Violence, violence my lyfe is stranded on a desert island with no food and beautiful women feeding my ego or what little is left..."
-Sole "Bottle Of Humans"

  

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tsalagi215
Member since Oct 31st 2002
2 posts
Mon Aug-13-01 12:23 PM

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76. "tokyo breakfast"
In response to Reply # 75


          

yeah that shit was a trip and a half... I got peeps over in Japan who saw that shit ( I sent them the link ) and bugged the fuck out. The whole thing I want to know is this... is this shit real or what... was it a real television pilot? the television station is real over in Nippon(that japan for yall that dont know)so it may be real. It just goes to show you that, some of you may not believe it( and if you dont belive it you really need to wake the fuck up),but black people have a very powerful influence in the culture of today. we are setting the trends and the people in the world stand up and take notice. We are setting examples as well as icons, but are we setting the right ones?

Make big noise people...
peace

  

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atruhead
Charter member
85230 posts
Mon Aug-13-01 07:39 PM

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82. "i dont know about tokyo breakfast"
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

but im spending my summer out here and one night at a club this drunk japanese chick almost got hit by a car and she said "ay, you fucking nigger" with the japanese accent n all. I was shocked, but it would have taken me forever n a day to try n explain to her why that didnt fly straight, so I let it slide. THEY LOVE HIP-HOP even if they dont understand every word, but I guarantee you if theres a hook with nigga in it they know it.



  

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Brooklynite
Charter member
1087 posts
Sun Aug-12-01 06:25 PM

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73. "RE: Okayartists and the "N" word..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I feel like we all got a flaw or two and maybe like me, some of the okay artists have potty mouths. It may not be right, although i don't exactly see it as wrong, but they obviously felt it necessary to express their artistry.

My .02
Brook

((((( The Sig )))))
One year as a resident, deep in sentiment, they shout out GO BROOKLYN!! They representin it - Dante Smith (Brook doesn't do stage names).

I do this for the borough - me (eff that, Cam bit my steeze).

I'M A GIRL GOT DAMN !!! (now

  

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JRennolds
Charter member
17029 posts
Sun Aug-12-01 06:36 PM

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74. " The "N" word: Nazi?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

This word should be dropped from any and all languages. It originated when some illiterate, southern bastard beat an african american with a stick on a field run by his greedy and thieving plantation. What a repulsive word! Why do some of the people refer to each other using the N word?

Justin

GOMD

  

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Mindbender
Charter member
46 posts
Mon Aug-13-01 01:04 PM

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78. "ALL OF THEM ARE WRONG"
In response to Reply # 74


          

for using the word. it KILLS me EVERY TIME I hear Mos or Kweli or Common, much less every other rapper, say it.

I AM BLACK AND PROUD that i have gone about 6 years without calling any other Black person 'my n.....'

it's 'coolness' originates as an American thing.
except those white/asian kids who say it nowadays, or have been saying it under their breath since they got their first NWA tape, ITS MOSTLY AMERICANS who say it every day to each other, a million times.

that shit gotta stop. period.

I ALWAYS DISAGREED WITH Q-TIP ON THIS ONE. I DONT USE IT AS A TERM OF ENDEARMENT. AND IF YOU EVER MEET ME, DONT SAY IT TO ME. I'M YOUR BROTHER.

"conscious" title or not, grow out of that shit.

IT WAS FINALLY CLARIFIED TO ME AFTER ALL THESE YEARS -WHY- IT STILL AINT COOL.
BECAUSE RACISM STILL EXISTS. REGULAR, OLD, WHITE MAN IN GOVERNMENT, POLICE, ARMY etc. HATING ALL COLORED PEOPLE RACISM STILL IS WITH US. TODAY.

the word still is connected to its roots. bloody, deadly, evil fucking roots. no pun intended, brother question, or any other okayplayer who still uses that word.

we still have a long way to go....

  

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Chike
Charter member
32916 posts
Mon Aug-13-01 03:49 PM

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80. "Preach on, brother..."
In response to Reply # 78


  

          

>we still have a long way
>to go....

Amen.

***************************************
And now, an excerpt from Chike's List of Masterpieces:

Yi Yi - Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant Taiwanese film about life, family, stages of development, and emotions. Long as hell but there's nothing to cut. Superb pacing, photography, acting, dialogue, use of Taipei... everything. If you have patience, see it. So real, so engrossing, so insightful, so genius. Did I mention it was brilliant?


  

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