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Subject: "does the *resentment* held by fatherless *children* go ignored?" This topic is locked.
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Zorasmoon
Member since Aug 30th 2002
37997 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 02:36 AM

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"does the *resentment* held by fatherless *children* go ignored?"


  

          

and unacknowledged?

in your personal/public observations?

What I mean by "fatherless" children (for the technical)
is when the dad is not active in the child's life.
when the dad is completely unknown to the child....

"Ignored & unacknowledged" as in a father's VALUE being dismissed and seen as unimportant.
As if daddy duties are non-gender specific technical tasks that can just as easily be performed by mommy.
(applaud the ultra-lefty third wave feminists for that one)

In my observations, within my own (black) demographics/culture, where the disproportionate
children raised without their fathers is more pronounced than most-- I notice a very common attitude among mothers.

Especially when the daddy ain't "shit"...or there was some bitter break-up that left very hard feelings.

The dad becomes like invisible, or something. And the mom is okay with moving on
with her life (granted she's gotta hold the household down..etc.)

But kids don't seem to function that way. That man could've been the most low-down,
trifling, sunuva nothin', never around mofo
and a kid will grant him Amnesty.

And the shyt does BOTHER children, as much as mofos like to downplay it.

There's something about that crucial other half of our identities that just rocks us to the core of our being. Do you agree?

It seems to me that in the face of an ANGRY child acting up in school, poor performance what have you,
with all the tell tale signs of "invisible daddy syndrome", even teachers and school counselors can't
speak the unspeakable due to the fear of having somebody's momma jump down their throats!

What have your personal experiences been? What have your public observations been?

Any refreshing stories out there about women YOU KNOW who do manage to "hold shyt down"
without talking badly about the child's father around them or renouncing his existence altogether? (even if he was a lowly muthf***?)

Go. I'm very interested in your opinions.

I'll be back with my other copper coin--about my own familial & personal experiences.





http://www.43things.com/person/kimluv

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
it was like i was pretty much conceived by immaculate conception
Apr 04th 2006
1
yup
Apr 04th 2006
2
yes
Apr 04th 2006
3
RE: yes
Apr 04th 2006
60
no no no
Apr 04th 2006
64
      gotcha
Apr 04th 2006
68
well, me too but it still wasn't enough.
Apr 04th 2006
62
      lol, naaww that's exactly what i was saying
Apr 04th 2006
65
omg yes
Apr 04th 2006
4
the only group that I know of that has acknowledged the
Apr 04th 2006
5
lol, they already do
Apr 04th 2006
6
      how is that paying to stay married?
Apr 04th 2006
8
      married ppl get tax credit too.
Apr 04th 2006
11
           umm im well aware of that
Apr 04th 2006
13
           yeah, i thought ppl would already figure that ppl are some what
Apr 04th 2006
17
           they do?
Apr 04th 2006
25
                i'm no accountant
Apr 04th 2006
27
                     they dont
Apr 04th 2006
29
                          not what i've been taught or told.
Apr 04th 2006
30
                               depends on income
Apr 04th 2006
87
      maybe they're pushing for joint filing
Apr 04th 2006
23
           no, even a married person filing a single (non joint) return gets "rewar...
Apr 04th 2006
79
the presumption of resentment is problematic.
Apr 04th 2006
7
lmao
Apr 04th 2006
9
you know it was bound too.
Apr 04th 2006
12
lmao. yep
Apr 04th 2006
15
*shrug*
Apr 04th 2006
21
      ^^^^ LOL
Apr 04th 2006
32
inconsequential?
Apr 04th 2006
36
perphaps it just not something that's important enough...
Apr 04th 2006
44
      having a father abandon you is not important enough to be bitter about?
Apr 04th 2006
50
      are you telling folks how they should feel?
Apr 04th 2006
53
           pardon me
Apr 04th 2006
56
                i think there's a clear distinction between someone feeling...
Apr 04th 2006
63
                     i do expect them to feel something
Apr 04th 2006
67
                          children are smarter, more adaptive than you're giving them credit for.
Apr 04th 2006
74
      WOW.
Apr 04th 2006
51
so you're presuming that in order for a child to feel bitterness
Apr 04th 2006
37
it was insinuated in the original post.
Apr 04th 2006
42
      It has?
Apr 04th 2006
45
           lol.
Apr 04th 2006
52
                You tell me.
Apr 04th 2006
54
                     my point is...
Apr 04th 2006
61
                     think harder.
Apr 04th 2006
66
                     so you're saying the kid is not black?
Apr 04th 2006
103
                     This is a point, actually.
Apr 04th 2006
70
                          here's my issue.
Apr 04th 2006
73
                          RE: here's my issue.
Apr 04th 2006
77
                               a deficit of who's making?
Apr 04th 2006
81
                                    how is this possible and why should it be?
Apr 04th 2006
96
                                    this is bullshit:
Apr 04th 2006
101
                                    I hear you.
Apr 04th 2006
99
                                         no one's suggesting bows.
Apr 04th 2006
100
                                              Well...
Apr 04th 2006
109
                                                   there's NO evidence that there's an organic "feeling"
Apr 04th 2006
117
                                                        My use of the word "feel" was figurative, not literal.
Apr 04th 2006
130
                                                             well, i can't divorce the outcomes from the circumstance.
Apr 04th 2006
137
                                                                  RE: well, i can't divorce the outcomes from the circumstance.
Apr 04th 2006
146
                                                                       hmm.
Apr 04th 2006
158
                          hold up
Apr 04th 2006
75
                               When I have time later this evening, I'll post sources.
Apr 04th 2006
78
                                    As promised...
Apr 04th 2006
107
                                         the tipping point by michael gladwell
Apr 04th 2006
122
                                              Haven't read that, yet. It's on my list, though.
Apr 04th 2006
132
                                                   this is reaching...
Apr 04th 2006
144
                                                        Take a look at some of the studies.
Apr 04th 2006
148
                                                             and im saying that i can also come up with studies that state otherwise
Apr 04th 2006
152
                     thi is funny 2 me..
Apr 04th 2006
102
i agree.
Apr 04th 2006
55
you cant miss what you never had... I know I didnt
Apr 04th 2006
88
uh yes you can...i miss that million dollars i never had
Apr 04th 2006
98
      no, you just wish you had a million dollars
Apr 04th 2006
161
so not every kid may have the problem
Apr 04th 2006
89
the problem is the folks saying that every kid will
Apr 04th 2006
156
^^Smart
Apr 04th 2006
108
No, but that's not an
Apr 04th 2006
10
here we go (c) sunchild
Apr 04th 2006
14
and how can u say that NO it isn't ignored yet
Apr 04th 2006
16
      I said some, not all
Apr 04th 2006
22
           um, i stopped reading after u said
Apr 04th 2006
26
           Is she going to jail?
Apr 04th 2006
40
                Well, DCSE here (VA)
Apr 04th 2006
82
Yes.
Apr 04th 2006
18
Definitely....Ignored is the correct word....
Apr 04th 2006
19
u said, your gran filled that void
Apr 04th 2006
20
      Eh, I think it's relative...if I had a choice....
Apr 04th 2006
24
My father died when I was two.
Apr 04th 2006
28
i think u have a different outlook on it because your father passed not
Apr 04th 2006
31
i guess i was responding to the 'completely unknown' part.
Apr 04th 2006
39
this part confuses and concerns me.........
Apr 04th 2006
49
      but i dont feel any loss or negative feeling..
Apr 04th 2006
104
           it's called projection....
Apr 04th 2006
106
i don't think it goes ignored.....
Apr 04th 2006
33
so are u saying that a child who has a mom from a wealthy
Apr 04th 2006
35
no...i didn't explain my position properly...
Apr 04th 2006
43
wtf are you talking about? all the men that I know have the utmost
Apr 04th 2006
38
      despite your belligerence, i'ma try to have a convo with you....
Apr 04th 2006
46
I have to agree with this 100%
Apr 04th 2006
34
this is exactly what happened to me:
Apr 04th 2006
59
Yep.
Apr 04th 2006
41
RE: Yep.
Apr 04th 2006
83
Hmmm...
Apr 04th 2006
97
me and you are >here<
Apr 04th 2006
93
well
Apr 04th 2006
47
i can relate to this
Apr 04th 2006
57
I always wonder too
Apr 04th 2006
94
Oh, man...
Apr 04th 2006
85
      i dont think ill ever know the answer to that
Apr 04th 2006
92
           Word.
Apr 04th 2006
95
           you and i have a similar story
Apr 04th 2006
111
                ya, i had my theories on why
Apr 04th 2006
116
yes but not necessarily intentionally
Apr 04th 2006
48
well i grew up motherless* and fatherless**
Apr 04th 2006
58
as a child, i was very aware
Apr 04th 2006
69
My moms wasn't TOO hate-talking about my father, but everything
Apr 04th 2006
71
Looking back at my life, I'd say it affected me.
Apr 04th 2006
72
my father passed away not divorced, but i still think i can answer this.
Apr 04th 2006
76
Met my Dad after 22 years (2 years ago)
Apr 04th 2006
80
my moms never spoke ill of my pops
Apr 04th 2006
84
It does
Apr 04th 2006
86
In my case...
Apr 04th 2006
90
RE: does the *resentment* held by fatherless *children* go ignored?
Apr 04th 2006
91
I don't resent dude, or maybe my resentment was ignored
Apr 04th 2006
105
In general, the importance of fatherhood has been ignored
Apr 04th 2006
110
and i hate that
Apr 04th 2006
112
I think it's long overdue that parents get a kick in the ass
Apr 04th 2006
119
excellent
Apr 04th 2006
113
Yep.
Apr 04th 2006
114
LOL. stfu.
Apr 04th 2006
118
      Ha! ... you know it's true
Apr 04th 2006
123
           actually. the opposite it true.
Apr 04th 2006
127
                So are you saying Motherhood>>Fatherhood...or
Apr 04th 2006
128
                     i'm saying that healthy homes vary in structure and demographics.
Apr 04th 2006
133
                          That's why I say adults need to look past themselves when
Apr 04th 2006
139
                          should someone that shallow be exposed to children?
Apr 04th 2006
140
                               It doesn't mean they can't be a good parent, maybe not
Apr 04th 2006
145
                                    i doubt someone that concerned with superficialities
Apr 04th 2006
147
                                         You'd be surprised... you prolly know someone like this
Apr 04th 2006
151
                          What words would those be?
Apr 04th 2006
153
                          this is definately tru, but as long as ppl know about the alternative
Apr 04th 2006
155
so what's this father's role?
Apr 04th 2006
115
a friend of mine once said that little girls need their fathers...
Apr 04th 2006
120
damn
Apr 04th 2006
121
btw k_orr, i like your posts. nm
Apr 04th 2006
124
      *blushes*
Apr 04th 2006
129
If it were only that simple
Apr 04th 2006
125
so we are dealing with mysterious forces here?
Apr 04th 2006
126
Its a little more complicated than that.....
Apr 04th 2006
142
      u are assuming that i will laugh it off, when really, i want to know.
Apr 04th 2006
150
RE: so what's this father's role?
Apr 04th 2006
149
      I don't even need to type anything else.....
Apr 04th 2006
154
      Post over
Apr 04th 2006
157
      that's YOUR experience, and that's wonderful.
Apr 04th 2006
159
      um, where did i attempt to??
Apr 04th 2006
160
           here...
Apr 04th 2006
163
                and i don't view that as opinion, that is fact.
Apr 04th 2006
165
                     the alternative to a two parent household is just a single parent one.
Apr 04th 2006
167
                     we are back and forthing, here, arent we?
Apr 04th 2006
168
                          btw.. im so glad you and ace got back together
Apr 04th 2006
170
                               LOL, girl they still do. ahahahahaha
Apr 04th 2006
172
      good answers, shug...
Apr 04th 2006
162
           in no shape, form or fashion did i attempt to diminish the role
Apr 04th 2006
164
                RE: in no shape, form or fashion did i attempt to diminish the role
Apr 04th 2006
166
                     and of course, that is true
Apr 04th 2006
169
                          it's the underlying assumption of most of these responses...
Apr 04th 2006
171
                               mmkay, i think we both have an understanding of each other's views
Apr 04th 2006
173
it's interesting that this post has garnered more female interest
Apr 04th 2006
131
that's SO expected.
Apr 04th 2006
134
      it is and it isn't
Apr 04th 2006
141
Its a lot of hurt in this post....
Apr 04th 2006
135
LOL!
Apr 04th 2006
138
      ...
Apr 04th 2006
143
yes, but i dont blame anyone for that
Apr 04th 2006
136
my niece and nephew do not know their parents...
Apr 05th 2006
174
^
Apr 29th 2006
175
haha what a re-up
Apr 29th 2006
176

shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
4465 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 03:00 AM

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1. "it was like i was pretty much conceived by immaculate conception"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


well, i grew up in a fatherless household and my mother never spoke badly about my father, but she really didn't speak about him at all and neither did i really. but i do remember a couple of times her specifically stating that he wasn't a bad guy. the relationship just wasn't one that was meant to last for whatever reasons.

despite this lack of negativity, i'm still not sure how i feel about the man. most of the time, i'm ambivalent, which i think is an understandable feeling, but something that worries me at the same time.

to an extent i maintain that not having a father in my life didn't affect me negatively all that much, but this is obviously something hard to declare. despite having a pretty good life up to this point, i can't say what person i could have been had he been present or what financial and personal issues mom and i could have avoided had he been present. (also can't say what problems his absence allowed us to avoid.

---

i'm wondering about your comments on the effects of "invisible daddy syndrome" and whether these effects show up in girls as much as they do boys. i guess they do, but i'm not sure they reflect themselves in the same way, i.e. behavioral problems.


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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Binlahab
Charter member
182956 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 04:47 AM

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2. "yup"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i mean, its like as a kid, i didnt know how to express myself & how basically angry abt the shit i was, and still am to a certain degree, it was just like 'welp...thats tough shit, thats the way it is' and i had to deal w/ the fallout of their failed relationship

and i firmly believe that the seed to a lot of the things/issues i has/have stem directly from that moment when they were like ok, fuck it, this isnt working and he split

unlike some, i still saw my dad during the summers, and a few xmas breaks up until i was 13...which is when i needed that male influence the most, so i had kind of a double problem, i had this image of fun & games during the summer attached to him & then my mother was the mean disciplinarian who actually fed me & took care of me & made sure i went to school w/ clothes on & etc, so of course i had an idealized image of him in my mind, then he basically stopped sending money down and i stopped going up

and nothing was ever explained to me, it was just...welp..no, your not going, and thats it & its like hunh?

ffwd 15 yrs and theres a lot of suppressed emotions abt the shit @ least on my end but its like..why even bother now? its too late

they know they fucked up, and we've all come to the conclusion of...*shrug* shit happens, move on

its a major factor in my outlook on family, children & etc

I Love You But I've Chosen Darkness

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 06:02 AM

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3. "yes"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

single mothers would like to think it doesn't bother their child, that they do a good enough job as a mother that the father not being around doesn't matter to the kid, that the kid knows all they need is their mother. they fail their children by believing it shouldn't affect them. a lost is a lost. and in the same manner the mother grieved the relationship ended, grieved the lost of the father of their child, children grieve the lost of their father too. even if they've never met. not recognizing or acknowledging the hurt doesn't diminish it, it intensifies it because a child is left to cope with it, and children are not emotionally intelligent enough to "cope" alone in a healthy way.



my father isn't my biological father and before he legally adopted me (at the age of 6) i had already picked up on us not having the same last name and the other kids in my class having the same last name as their mother and father. it embarrassed me. i felt ashamed. less than. and i don't ever recall speaking up about it, but i may have because they did make a big deal and had a little family celebration and stuff when my last name got changed.


one of my cousins, was doing really good in life, in school and stuff. until his father starting coming into his life. he was about 15 years old. the infrequent calls, visits. promises left unmet. i saw him change. he became such an angry kid. i think before his father started popping up his mother was able to nurture his hurt or he was able to keep it in. but u can't give a child hope and toy with it and not expect it to turn into resentment, anger, rebellion, hatred.


i think, parents fail to acknowledge that the decisions they made affect their children. its easier to believe your child is "bad", then it is to admit that their father not being in their life troubles them because then you have to face something that troubles you as well. and i'm not sure if there is anything a parent can do to take away the hurt caused by another parent abandoning their child. my mother married my father when i was 2 years old. and even though, i had a daddy, who was and still is amazing, i grew up still bothered by the thought that someone could not "want me". even as an adult, it troubled me when i had rae. to have a child of my own, and to experience the joy in it, to watch ace with rae, hurt me as i thought about my biological father, just walking away from something so precious and beautiful.

alot of the hurt i felt was comforted in the fact that a man that didn't produce me, that had no obligation to care for me, adopted me, treated me as his own and loved me unconditionally. i can't imagine how children who are not as fortunate as i was deal with all of the ways that not having a father fuck with a child's spirit.



Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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wray
Member since Jun 05th 2002
20655 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:13 AM

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60. "RE: yes"
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>single mothers would like to think it doesn't bother their
>child, that they do a good enough job as a mother that the
>father not being around doesn't matter to the kid, that the
>kid knows all they need is their mother. they fail their
>children by believing it shouldn't affect them. a lost is a
>lost. and in the same manner the mother grieved the
>relationship ended, grieved the lost of the father of their
>child, children grieve the lost of their father too. even if
>they've never met. not recognizing or acknowledging the hurt
>doesn't diminish it, it intensifies it because a child is left
>to cope with it, and children are not emotionally intelligent
>enough to "cope" alone in a healthy way.



Suggs, now you know that I respect your parenting opinions but this statment is way generalizing.

I KNOW my son needs a dad. I KNOW I cant replace him. I KNOW this has hurt my child, which is perfectly understandable. We do our best to deal with that.

This was the basic theme of my single mom post.

Everybody wants to run around reminding me how much my kids need a father as if I DONT ALREADY KNOW THAT.
But no one can tell me how to make a grown ass man act right.
And since that aint gonna happen(aint happened in 15 years)if folk dont have something to helpful contribute to the situatation I'd rather they just shut the hell up.

For real, if folk know how to make a triflin' man care, or at least pay child support, speak on it.
Till then I dont need to hear shit I've known since July 1990.



http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2132831431
-----------------------------


niggas is beautiful- Ike M.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:23 AM

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64. "no no no"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

i meant that in terms of
dealing with children's issues
when children misbehave
our first reaction is to punish them, spank them, whatever it may be
not think about what's causing them to misbehave
or what they are going through

there is nothing u can do
to make a non-active parent, active
but u can address those issues with your child
and help them work through the issues they have because of it


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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wray
Member since Jun 05th 2002
20655 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:29 AM

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68. "gotcha"
In response to Reply # 64


  

          

my son actually has a counceling session today. he has to learn better managment skills because of his anxiety.
its rooted in feelings of abandonment that have grown do to fuckalls actions toward him. he dosent get mad, he gets worried.

i just wish i had that nigga number so that everytime someone says something to me about his daddy, i could just say "here, call and tell him".

i actually posted his name and city once cause the child support folk say they cant find him. i KNOW somebody on here knows him, cause he thinks he's a star.


http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2132831431
-----------------------------


niggas is beautiful- Ike M.

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:19 AM

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62. "well, me too but it still wasn't enough."
In response to Reply # 3


  

          

>alot of the hurt i felt was comforted in the fact that a man
>that didn't produce me, that had no obligation to care for me,
>adopted me, treated me as his own and loved me
>unconditionally.

i had 2 ppl do this for me (my great aunt and uncle who took me in) and it wasn't enough to heal the hurt i felt/feel about losing both of my parents. i still felt/feel abandoned, unwanted, and lesser than.

damn. i guess i need a blog, huh? lol

fuck you.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:24 AM

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65. "lol, naaww that's exactly what i was saying"
In response to Reply # 62


  

          

it COMFORTED my hurt, it didn't make the hurt a non-issue tho.


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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sunchild
Member since Sep 05th 2005
13797 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 06:45 AM

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4. "omg yes"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-04-06 06:59 AM by sunchild

  

          

when my parents split
and my dad decided that he would never see me again
i was fugged over it, i was 9
he visited a few times and then disappeared( 30 minutes from my hometown, i mean know where he is just stopped contact)
that shit was these worse
because my parents were actually married
and i was daddy's little girl
its not like i had never met my father
he took me to softball practice
came to school functions
game me allowance
taught me how to ride my bike
i think this was worse than never having met him at all
as i got older i realized he had his own demons and i no longer fault him
because in hindsight it was for the best
he had substance abuse issues that were getting worse by the minute
but you know what
my mom never tried to sweep that shit under the rug
she acknowledged my hurt
when she remarried tho
some of it went away
cuz me and my step dad are tight like 2 peas in a pod
and he stepped into that role as best any man could
and treats me like his own
and he and my moms are still together
ive thought about my calling my father tho
i heard he asks about me
i also do blame my mom some
altho but i believe he told her after the marriage, at least she said that
cuz as i was older i found out i have 2 sisters, from a previous marriage before him and moms got together
he didnt visit those kids or go see them ever
i didnt even know about them
red flag on the play
i mean really, why have a kid from a man that doesnt take care of his own kids
i dont know what hype he fed her that she ate
but that shit was stupid and naive
and ive told her that is how i felt
but yeah im not mad about it any more ive worked those bumps out
learn from that mistake and try to do better
but yes it does effect the kid
ppl would be alot better off if they admitted and put the kid in some counseling and talked to the kid about it
instead of sweeping it under the rug
and taking the hardnosed superwoman stance

-----------
At the very least, one can agree that having the people who have victimized you quantify your mistreatment invokes a sizable conflict of interest.

  

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Jaye Swigga
Member since Sep 06th 2003
29904 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 06:54 AM

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5. "the only group that I know of that has acknowledged the"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

resentment of fatherless children are
the republicans.

they are planning on PAYING negros to
get married and stay in their childrens
lives.



---AND, ON THE 8TH DAY, GOD CREATED SWIGGA ... AND SHE WAS VERY, VERY GOOD :=)-

main jawn likes it: www.divasincharge.com/SwiggasBossy.mp3

Challenge what u THINK u know: http://www.WhatThePeopleREALLYThink.com ®

http://www.GoBuyOurShit.com ®

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
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6. "lol, they already do"
In response to Reply # 5


  

          

child tax credit


which i still can't figure out why only ONE parent can claim
but yeah.




Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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sunchild
Member since Sep 05th 2005
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8. "how is that paying to stay married?"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          


-----------
At the very least, one can agree that having the people who have victimized you quantify your mistreatment invokes a sizable conflict of interest.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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11. "married ppl get tax credit too."
In response to Reply # 8


  

          


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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sunchild
Member since Sep 05th 2005
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13. "umm im well aware of that"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

but you said child tax credit
so i assume that was your answer
and i was wondering how that fit into the scheme
that's all i twas asking

-----------
At the very least, one can agree that having the people who have victimized you quantify your mistreatment invokes a sizable conflict of interest.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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17. "yeah, i thought ppl would already figure that ppl are some what"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

"rewarded" in this country for being married

i shouldn't have said anything except they already do. lol

i thought about that after i posted, but said aww fuck it, if someone asks i'll explain.
lol


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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haji rana pinya
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25. "they do?"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

*********************
www.dumhi.com

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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27. "i'm no accountant"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

but yeah



Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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haji rana pinya
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29. "they dont"
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

not solely for being married anyway

*********************
www.dumhi.com

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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30. "not what i've been taught or told."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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LittleTortilla
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87. "depends on income"
In response to Reply # 30


          

it only helps when one person makes a lot and the other makes less. when both people are about the same income it becomes a penatly.
___________________________
Height Queen Extraordinaire

Me: Cross-eyed people scare me.
G: But you are pigeon-toed, you just as deformed as them.

  

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MrThomas43423
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23. "maybe they're pushing for joint filing"
In response to Reply # 6


  

          

one household...one tax credit.
----------------------------------------------
RIP Dilla.

not compassionate....only polite.

  

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Raina
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79. "no, even a married person filing a single (non joint) return gets "rewar..."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

Taxes are taken different for a married person.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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7. "the presumption of resentment is problematic."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

some kids grow up in families where the bio-father isn't badmouthed yet is still absent and there's no tangible sense of loss or bitterness. it's just rather inconsequential.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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sunchild
Member since Sep 05th 2005
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9. "lmao"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

here we go

-----------
At the very least, one can agree that having the people who have victimized you quantify your mistreatment invokes a sizable conflict of interest.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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12. "you know it was bound too."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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sunchild
Member since Sep 05th 2005
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15. "lmao. yep"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

-----------
At the very least, one can agree that having the people who have victimized you quantify your mistreatment invokes a sizable conflict of interest.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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21. "*shrug*"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

the cosigning was annoying.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
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32. "^^^^ LOL"
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

>the cosigning was annoying.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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NikaMandela
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36. "inconsequential?"
In response to Reply # 7


          

how is that even possible?

  

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HueyShakur
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44. "perphaps it just not something that's important enough..."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

to be bitter about?

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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NikaMandela
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50. "having a father abandon you is not important enough to be bitter about?"
In response to Reply # 44


          

unless you just dont have emotions, youre going to have strong emotions about soemthing like this happening to you...

  

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HueyShakur
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53. "are you telling folks how they should feel?"
In response to Reply # 50


  

          

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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NikaMandela
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56. "pardon me"
In response to Reply # 53


          

i think i'm referring to how i would expect someone to feel based on my understanding of familial emotions...

i truthfully dont understand how someone could not feel *anything* about being abandoned by a parent...and to say that maybe its "inconsequential" is problemmatic to me...i think its exteremely rare for someone to think/feel this way and yes i would consider this person emotionally disturbed...

  

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HueyShakur
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63. "i think there's a clear distinction between someone feeling..."
In response to Reply # 56


  

          

"abandoned" and someone just not really being bothered by it.

we want people to be bitter now?

some people are okay with the hand they were dealt in life. you expect them to mope and whine about "no daddy" for 30 years?

*smh*

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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NikaMandela
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67. "i do expect them to feel something"
In response to Reply # 63


          

not necessarily bitterness or resentment...but indifference? i dont see it...

and again we're talking about children here not adults

  

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HueyShakur
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74. "children are smarter, more adaptive than you're giving them credit for."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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51. "WOW."
In response to Reply # 44


          

  

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lingo
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37. "so you're presuming that in order for a child to feel bitterness"
In response to Reply # 7


          

towards their absentee father, he would have had to been badmouthed?

  

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HueyShakur
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42. "it was insinuated in the original post."
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

or maybe i misread it. if so? i concede that.

but, imo, a child's resentment or bitterness shouldn't be assumed because circumstances differ and folks deal differently.

the suggestion in the original post upholds some pseudo-freudian nuclear family stuff that i thought has already been dismissed.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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45. "It has?"
In response to Reply # 42


          

>the suggestion in the original post upholds some
>pseudo-freudian nuclear family stuff that i thought has
>already been dismissed.

Elucidate, please.

  

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HueyShakur
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52. "lol."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

how many nuclear families exist?

how many of those are functional?

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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54. "You tell me."
In response to Reply # 52


          

Got some stats you wanna share?

I mean, isn't the better question, how many NON-NUCLEAR families in this society (that is, those that operate OUTSIDE of the nuclear family dynamic of two-parent households) are functional?

And then... define functional.

I'm asking because everything I've seen and read have clearly and definitively concluded that the absence of a FATHER FIGURE in the household is detrimental to the child both in the immediate and long-term.

I'm wondering where your claim that the father is "inconsequential" derives form.

  

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HueyShakur
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Tue Apr-04-06 11:16 AM

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61. "my point is..."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          

people make due with what they have and that's feelings of "emptiness" or anger/bitterness toward an absentee father aren't universal. and if they are, prove it.

and like shamus said, if dude is gone before you can remember then how is that bitterness even tangible for that child, and i'll add, unless there's a clear agenda to expose the child of the things s/he is supposedly "missing out on."

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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SoWhat
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Tue Apr-04-06 11:24 AM

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66. "think harder."
In response to Reply # 61


  

          

>people make due with what they have and that's feelings of
>"emptiness" or anger/bitterness toward an absentee father
>aren't universal.

true. i guess.

>and like shamus said, if dude is gone before you can remember
>then how is that bitterness even tangible for that child

all the kid has to do is look around and see all the other ppl around him/her who have a mother and a father. from that s/he can figure out s/he is missing something/someone. and then there's always good ol' Father's Day to remind the kid s/he doesn't have 1. even if there's a replacement around and even if s/he never knew his/her real father s/he'll be reminded. that's enough to draw up all sorts of feelings.

at least it was for me. i didn't know my father after age 2 which means i basically didn't know him but i still missed him quite a bit even though i had a strong father figure. i knew my great uncle wasn't my real father and i always wondered about my real father. and yes i was bitter about him not being around mostly b/c i didn't fully understand why he wasn't. no one explained it to me thoroughly so i was left to come up w/my own reasons.

, and
>i'll add, unless there's a clear agenda to expose the child of
>the things s/he is supposedly "missing out on."

naw that's not necessary.

fuck you.

  

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k_orr
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103. "so you're saying the kid is not black?"
In response to Reply # 66


  

          


>all the kid has to do is look around and see all the other ppl
>around him/her who have a mother and a father.

Zing

one
k. orr

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 11:32 AM

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70. "This is a point, actually."
In response to Reply # 61


          

>people make due with what they have and that's feelings of
>"emptiness" or anger/bitterness toward an absentee father
>aren't universal. and if they are, prove it.

I can't honestly attest to the feelings of emptiness or resentment b/c, you're right, I don't know that to be universal. Is it common? I've no doubt. But again, I dont' know this to be universal so won't speak to it.

What I do know, is that those raised in two-parent households UNIVERSALLY fair FAR BETTER than those who were not.

So essentially, whether that absence manifests itself in anger and behavioral problems, or simply -- as I suspect is much more common --in folks who don't operate at their HIGHEST capacity, it doesn't really matter.

The presence (or absence?) of a father (or father figure) is NOT inconsequential.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 12:03 PM

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73. "here's my issue."
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

at the end of the day, what does it all mean?

no family is alike, those that seem to have similar demographics (two parents, etc) are still unique. unless there's an overwhelming sense of personal unfulfillment, why does it really matter?

clearly, if the person -as an adult- is unfulfilled there are plenty of other issues at play, not just the lack of daddy. imo, there's SO much emphasis on problematizing this reality (as if it were a phenomenon) and not enough emphasis on making life "better" for those children.

and the reason that children of two-parent homes "fair better" is because it's set up for them to succeed, socially.

if folks are resentful, where does that stem from? clearly it's just not the mother's attitude/disposition. sometimes the father is just an asshole and the kid is better off not dealing with him. i'm so over giving dudes a pass when it comes to their children.

there are mechanisms in place in the mom is being extra, establish paternity, pay your child support and sue for visitation. is it a hassle? sure. but if the father's concern was truly with whether or not their child would resent them, then i'd suggest that the hassle was worth it.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 12:22 PM

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77. "RE: here's my issue."
In response to Reply # 73
Tue Apr-04-06 12:30 PM by soulpsychodelicyde

          

>at the end of the day, what does it all mean?
>
>no family is alike, those that seem to have similar
>demographics (two parents, etc) are still unique. unless
>there's an overwhelming sense of personal unfulfillment, why
>does it really matter?

So.... it "doesn't really matter" that I'm not functioning as well as I should or could?

I 100% disagree. And frankly, this line of thinking in and of itself is really problematic for me. It seems to say, as long as he, we, them are surviving, what difference does it make?

I contend, surviving simply isn't an enough. Particularly when he, we, them can THRIVE. And within the right environment (i.e. two-parent household) they probably would've.

Shit happens, we all know this. But not recognizing that there could very well be consequences for those children who do not have a father (figure) by calling said person's role "inconsequential" is terribly selfish and unfair to the kid, I think.

>clearly, if the person -as an adult- is unfulfilled there are
>plenty of other issues at play, not just the lack of daddy.

I'm not sure we're speaking the same language here. Again, I'm not talking about "tangible" unfulfillment (unhappiness, discontent, social issues, etc.). This is not just about a person simply "feeling," in a real way, the absence of their father, but those that LIVE IT and don't know it. These people, I think, FAR OUTWEIGH the # of those who can actually point to their lack of a father (figure) as the root of whatever issues they may have.

>imo, there's SO much emphasis on problematizing this reality
>(as if it were a phenomenon) and not enough emphasis on making
>life "better" for those children.

Again... I disagree. I don't think there's ENOUGH emphasis on this problem -- one that is now a reality because it continues to worsen.
>
>and the reason that children of two-parent homes "fair better"
>is because it's set up for them to succeed, socially.

Yep. So how again is the absence of a father inconsequential? If we *know* that society is designed to nurture two-parent homes, why the emphasis on downplaying its value for our children?

Are we trying to make them the guinea pigs in some grand social experiment?

>if folks are resentful, where does that stem from? clearly
>it's just not the mother's attitude/disposition. sometimes the
>father is just an asshole and the kid is better off not
>dealing with him. i'm so over giving dudes a pass when it
>comes to their children.

Yep... we're not speaking the same language here. No one's offering these dudes a pass. And no one is saying, "dude is an asshole, but hey, he's the father, and should be a part of the equation."

The bone I pick is with the stance that this role is "inconsequential," when everything we know about how children fare in *this* society tells us differently. Essentially, we are starting our kids off at a deficit, and are COMPLETELY ill-equipped to help them through it.

Again, shit happens and shit isn't always roses in relationships. But what good are you doing your kid if you don't recognize the potential effect that XYZ circumstance has on your child?

>there are mechanisms in place in the mom is being extra,
>establish paternity, pay your child support and sue for
>visitation. is it a hassle? sure. but if the father's concern
>was truly with whether or not their child would resent them,
>then i'd suggest that the hassle was worth it.

This is not about the father's concern. I give not a shit about him (or the mother for that matter).

I care about the kids who did not choose their circumstance, but are being left alone to navigate it.

  

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HueyShakur
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Tue Apr-04-06 12:39 PM

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81. "a deficit of who's making?"
In response to Reply # 77


  

          

i have a problem with us problematizing everything. i see it as a condition that folks deal with and adapt to accordingly.

and by inconsequential, i mean, most well-adjusted folks are OKAY with who they've come to be and many of those folks are products of daddyless homes. so the question of resenting not having pops around vs. if he were around you'd be different, becomes moot for many...simple because they're fine with who they are. and not having dad was PART of that experience.

so instead of problematizing, maybe perphaps we should view non-father homes as a DIFFERENT experience not a deficit one.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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NikaMandela
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Tue Apr-04-06 03:01 PM

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96. "how is this possible and why should it be?"
In response to Reply # 81


          

children were meant to be raised with fathers and we should not accomodate their absence by changing our outlook on the issue...

we should first be concerned about doing whatever we can do to encourage mother + father homes...

and when thats not an option, we should be concerned about doing whatever we can do to give children from fatherless homes what they need in lieu of a father...

we should never get comfortable with the PROBLEM of fatherlessness...

>so instead of problematizing, maybe perphaps we should view
>non-father homes as a DIFFERENT experience not a deficit one.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 07:28 PM

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101. "this is bullshit:"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

>children were meant to be raised with fathers and we should
>not accomodate their absence by changing our outlook on the
>issue...

& removed from reality.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12171 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 03:10 PM

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99. "I hear you."
In response to Reply # 81


          

But ultimately don't think we're going to agree.

>so instead of problematizing, maybe perphaps we should view
>non-father homes as a DIFFERENT experience not a deficit one.

While this sounds nice, the reality is that, in general, children that were reared in non-father homes DON'T do as well as their peers who were. So while it is a different experience, it isn't one that is helping our children function better.

I agree that we need more resources and resolutions for this issue, though. But dressing it up in bows and ribbons doesn't make for better outcomes.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 07:27 PM

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100. "no one's suggesting bows."
In response to Reply # 99


  

          

just that there's a reality that folks live everyday, how do we improve that?

we can settle the other shit some other time. mostly cuz much of it is really debatable.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:20 PM

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109. "Well..."
In response to Reply # 100


          

>just that there's a reality that folks live everyday, how do
>we improve that?

A good start would be acknowledging that the role *IS* important and that supermom or not, children will likely feel, in some way or another, when the role is not filled.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:37 PM

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117. "there's NO evidence that there's an organic "feeling""
In response to Reply # 109


  

          

associated with the presence/absence of a father.

are the children more likely to be impoverished? sure. it has more to do with our effed up economic priorities than the lack of a supposed father-figure. there's living evidence of folks that "lacked" that figure and are "well-adjusted".

if poverty were alleviated, then the statistics would look dramatically different.

many of us want to believe that the child "feels some kind of way" but are we sure we aren't imposing our own adult views or perceptions?

what harm does it do to imagine that some kids don't think it's a big deal if dude isn't around?

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:48 PM

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130. "My use of the word "feel" was figurative, not literal."
In response to Reply # 117


          

As in, they don't fare as well as those who had a father in the household.
>
>are the children more likely to be impoverished? sure.

They're also more likely to commit crimes and to drop out of high school.

it has
>more to do with our effed up economic priorities than the lack
>of a supposed father-figur


there's living evidence of folks
>that "lacked" that figure and are "well-adjusted".

Thousands. Millions, even. I'm one. But are they the exception, rather than the rule? All evidence points to a resounding, 'yes' unfortunately

>
>if poverty were alleviated, then the statistics would look
>dramatically different.
>
>many of us want to believe that the child "feels some kind of
>way" but are we sure we aren't imposing our own adult views or
>perceptions?
>
>what harm does it do to imagine that some kids don't think
>it's a big deal if dude isn't around?

A, you are missing my point. It's entirely possible that the kid may not be angry, hurt, resentful, etc., etc... However, it is entirely possible, even likely, that the kid will not do AS WELL, as he would've with a father present.

The absence affects his life in other ways than how he *feels* everyday.

I'm talking outcomes here, not emotions.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:58 PM

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137. "well, i can't divorce the outcomes from the circumstance."
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

women make less than men generally, so the strain a single income is gonna be pronounced in female-headed single parent household.

poor people are more likely to go to jail and drop out of school.

my point isn't that children don't resent not having a father around, just that not ALL children have that experience. so of course they will have a tougher road economically but it's sorta like the hand they were dealt.

*shrug*

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:05 PM

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146. "RE: well, i can't divorce the outcomes from the circumstance."
In response to Reply # 137


          

>women make less than men generally, so the strain a single
>income is gonna be pronounced in female-headed single parent
>household.
>
>poor people are more likely to go to jail and drop out of
>school.

So the role of a father in the household is NOT inconsequential, which has been my only point throughout this discussion.
>
>my point isn't that children don't resent not having a father
>around, just that not ALL children have that experience.

I've never argued that.

>it's sorta like the hand they were dealt.<

That's a foregone conclusion, though. Like, no one's arguing that either.

I took issue with your assertion that the role was inconsequential. By your own admission, it isn't.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:39 PM

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158. "hmm."
In response to Reply # 146


  

          

i said earlier tho that there are children that don't FEEL (the original poster talked about resentment), it's important enough to be bitter about.

i understand there's economic ish. but the narrow point about how someone deals emotionally, that's what zora was talkin about, i think it debatable. and it can't be assumed that every father-aint-around child is bitter.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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Shimmy
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Tue Apr-04-06 12:15 PM

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75. "hold up"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

What I do know, is that those raised in two-parent households UNIVERSALLY fair FAR BETTER than those who were not.

Where are you getting these stats?
And I'd question what you are measuring exactly?

I'm wondering how much people idealize the nuclear family model?

“Your body is not a temple, it’s an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.†Anthony Bourdain

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 12:25 PM

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78. "When I have time later this evening, I'll post sources."
In response to Reply # 75


          



  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:14 PM

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107. "As promised..."
In response to Reply # 78


          


- See, "American Dream" by Jason De Parle.

Summary: DeParle is former NYT welfare reporter who set out to document the nation's drive towards welfare reform during the Clinton administration. To do so, he chronicled the lives of three women on welfare in the Midwest.

This book has TONS of sources and the author sites several studies on the effects of single-parenting in his evaluation of the effects of poverty and welfare.

As an aside, it's also a GREAT piece of journalism that reads like a novel that got me interested in the science behind the subject.

- See, "Growing Up with a Single Parent," by Gary Sandefur and Sara McLanahan.

Summary: McLanahan (Princeton sociology professor) set out in the '80's to essentially dispel the thinking that single parent households were detrimental to single parent families, and so embarked on a 10-year study to disprove what she considered prejudice against this familial structure. Instead what she found was that children who grow up in a household with only one biological parent are twice as likely to drop out of high school, have a child before 20, more likely to commit crimes, etc., etc., etc.

McLanahan is considered one of the foremost experts on the subject and has conducted several studies, and published dozens of articles surrounding it.

Check out her CV:

http://www.olin.wustl.edu/macarthur/bio/mclanahan.htm


- See: "Changes in Family Structure and Child Well-Being: Evidence from the 2002 National Survey of America's Families"

Summary: The National Survey is a database of about 40,000 families that the authors (Gregory Acs and Sandi Nelson) analyzed to examine the value in alternative living arrangements -- that is, cohabitating scenarios -- and found that these children fare no better than those raised by single mothers alone.

Hope this helps.

  

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akon
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:40 PM

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122. "the tipping point by michael gladwell"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

also says that one's environment plays a much greater role in how one
ends up- even greater than family situation.
i think that it takes a village saying might have come from this
(and i mention him because we can sit here and trade 'proofs' back and
forth that support either of our claims)

so if you take single parents dealing with poverty, lack of education and other factors like that
how does one end up concluding that its their single parenthood that
proves to be detrimental and not the social situation they are in?
i think there's a multitude of factors when it comes to shaping personality
you can't really isolate ONE as the only one without having a way to measure
how the other factors do NOT contribute to this

and im only giving that as one example.

statistics are manipulative.




.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:52 PM

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132. "Haven't read that, yet. It's on my list, though."
In response to Reply # 122
Tue Apr-04-06 08:55 PM by soulpsychodelicyde

          

>also says that one's environment plays a much greater role in
>how one
>ends up- even greater than family situation.

Yup. I'm well aware that single parenthood is only one of a MYRIAD of factors that ultimately affect family outcomes.

This post, though, was about the role of father (figures) and that's what I responded to.

And while we all know statistics can be manipulated there are literally thousands of studies that specifically conclude that the presence (or absence) of the father (figure) in the household has a direct and traceable effect on the outcomes for the child.

  

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akon
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144. "this is reaching..."
In response to Reply # 132
Tue Apr-04-06 09:03 PM by akon

  

          

>And while we all know statistics can be manipulated there are
>literally thousands of studies that specifically conclude that
>the presence (or absence) of the father (figure) in the
>household has a direct and traceable effect on the outcomes
>for the child

because unless those studies controlled for all those other factors that affect personality there is no way that one can come to that conclusion.

and im also pretty sure that for any one study that concludes that i can probably come up with a study that says its not that simple.. or that other factors in the child's upbringing played an equivalent or greater role in shaping who s/he became as an adult.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:06 PM

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148. "Take a look at some of the studies."
In response to Reply # 144


          

I'm not inventing this.

  

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akon
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152. "and im saying that i can also come up with studies that state otherwise"
In response to Reply # 148


  

          

not inventing this either.

you are drawing a conclusion based on one thing and im saying i can draw another while looking at the same shit.

nothing is as conclusive as you are trying to make it to be.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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akon
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102. "thi is funny 2 me.."
In response to Reply # 54


  

          


>
>I'm asking because everything I've seen and read have clearly
>and definitively concluded that the absence of a FATHER FIGURE
>in the household is detrimental to the child both in the
>immediate and long-term.


imsure i can bring up instances wherehaving a father has been 'clearly
>and definitively concluded; to be detrimental to the child both in the immediate and long-term'

that's very circumstan\tial. it's not a pro-nuclear family argument either,


>
>I'm wondering where your claim that the father is
>"inconsequential" derives form.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
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Tue Apr-04-06 10:42 AM

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55. "i agree."
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

especially if the father became absent before the child could form significant memory of him. some folks don't really miss, or get bitter, about something they never really had in the first place.


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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InKast
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Tue Apr-04-06 01:47 PM

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88. "you cant miss what you never had... I know I didnt"
In response to Reply # 7


          

nm

  

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NikaMandela
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Tue Apr-04-06 03:07 PM

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98. "uh yes you can...i miss that million dollars i never had"
In response to Reply # 88


          

  

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InKast
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:53 PM

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161. "no, you just wish you had a million dollars"
In response to Reply # 98


          

nm

  

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LittleTortilla
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Tue Apr-04-06 02:01 PM

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89. "so not every kid may have the problem"
In response to Reply # 7


          

but some will and you can at least investigate it.
___________________________
Height Queen Extraordinaire

Me: Cross-eyed people scare me.
G: But you are pigeon-toed, you just as deformed as them.

  

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akon
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156. "the problem is the folks saying that every kid will"
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

it's not that simple.

and neither is it possible to downplay all the other factors that come into play when raising a child.

all im reading here is that there's something intangible that can only be gotten from a father
and those that didn't have this benefit are somewhat lacking.

i dont agree with that.

but i also know that there are some maladjusted folks out there who can or cannot attribute this to their familial situation.

just as there are also folks in dual parent households who have issues that they can attribute to this.

shit's not as clear cut as its being made to look here.



>but some will and you can at least investigate it.
im all for investigation.
but against drawing foregone conclusions.


>___________________________
>Height Queen Extraordinaire
>
>Me: Cross-eyed people scare me.
>G: But you are pigeon-toed, you just as deformed as them.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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k_orr
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:17 PM

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108. "^^Smart"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          


COGITO ERGO DOLEO

  

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KUHL_BREZ
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 07:42 AM

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10. "No, but that's not an"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

excuse to act a fool. If you're a single parent, especially of young kids, that's your time to make an impact and be an influence on your kid(s). And it's not just the absense of fathers, but the ineptitude of some single mothers. There are some sorry ass mothers out here too, whether you want to believe it or not.

<--STEELER PRIDE

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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Tue Apr-04-06 07:45 AM

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14. "here we go (c) sunchild"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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Tue Apr-04-06 07:46 AM

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16. "and how can u say that NO it isn't ignored yet"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

u say mothers aren't doing a good job at the same time???

fuck outta here.

i want u to actually *think* before u press "reply"


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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KUHL_BREZ
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:03 AM

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22. "I said some, not all"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          


>u say mothers aren't doing a good job at the same time???

Yep, some aren't. You seem to think that ALL single mothers hold everything down, but it just ain't true, period. Everybody's situation is different. Chicks like you seem to think that if a kid is actin up and is in a single mother home, then automatically it's because of the father. It's true in some cases, but not all. I'm divorced and I have custody of our (ex-wife and I) 3 children. I'm takin care of them by myself, ex isn't helpin with ANYTHING and also doesn't call kids or see them on a regular basis. I don't even wanna say how much child support I'm owed. Does that mean every mother in the world is like that...no. The point is nobody's perfect and everybody got different problems. You can't assume it's one or the other.

>i want u to actually *think* before u press "reply"
I'm always thinkin baby. thank you. lol

<--STEELER PRIDE

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:10 AM

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26. "um, i stopped reading after u said"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

i seem to think that all single mothers hold it down
lmfao
the fuck did u get that from???

answer me that.

and then *maybe* i'll read the rest of your reply.
in the meantime why don't u try to read my above replies and again, *think* before u reply.



Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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flipnile
Member since Nov 05th 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:50 AM

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40. "Is she going to jail?"
In response to Reply # 22


          

I know dudes get warrants put out for them for non-payment.

  

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KUHL_BREZ
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 12:49 PM

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82. "Well, DCSE here (VA)"
In response to Reply # 40


  

          

says that they served court orders and what not and that they wouldn't know if I needed to be there until the whole situation was evaluated. I know for sure even if she don't wanna contribute and be a part of their lives they (kids) won't use it as a crutch and I won't let 'em. Life goes on regardless of who's apart of it or not.

>I know dudes get warrants put out for them for non-payment.
No doubt. If it was the other way around and I missed two payments, I'd be in the hole as we speak. It's a major double standard.

<--STEELER PRIDE

  

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brownivy
Member since Oct 19th 2004
2967 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:20 AM

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18. "Yes."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The burden is on the child to reconcile that anger and disillusionment with the need to forgive, for the sake of self-preservation, but not to forget (so that the cycle is broken).

The Cali version of me.


--<http://www.myspace.com/brownivy>--

  

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OrangeMoon
Member since Feb 01st 2005
3284 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:27 AM

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19. "Definitely....Ignored is the correct word...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I haven't even spoken to my father since I was 15 and I'm 24 now so you do the math.

My theory on him is that he could barely take care of himself or my Mother so what was he gon do with me? He STILL lives with his mother off and on, and eventhough people try to get me to call her grandma, I have never been able to do, even as a kid. My Grandma passed in 01'...but I digress.

I don't know him, he's never REALLY tried to get to know me. People in my family don't even ask how I feel about him not being around, it's like the elephant in the room, when anything father related takes place, ie Father's Day, and other ish like that. But to be honest I can't say he was missed in my childhood, I had it great, not a complaint in the world. I was raised by four women: two Aunts, my Granny and my Mama. I just assumed this was how it was supposed to be, never questioned it....at least not until recently, prolly once my Gran passed. I just was angry that he had no knowledge of how much pain I was in, especially since IMO my Gran stepped in where he stepped back and filled that void.

I know I have to talk to him eventually, just for my own sanity...it's just weird loving someone you don't know anything about but should

~"You are your own best thing" (c) Paul D in BELOVED

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:29 AM

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20. "u said, your gran filled that void"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

but isn't it true that, that void can never be filled?

i understand what u're saying, having someone else there, takes the sting away a little bit, but really- the void doesn't really get filled, ya know?


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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OrangeMoon
Member since Feb 01st 2005
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:05 AM

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24. "Eh, I think it's relative...if I had a choice...."
In response to Reply # 20


  

          

between my Dad and Gran being in my life now and even back then, Gran would've won everytime.

My Dad is fucked up...yeah there's resentment there, but there's an excellent reason why he's not apart of my life and never has been.

But I see what you're saying though; he's always going to be my Dad, hate it or love it...I'm just saying for me, my Gran filled that void just fine; I didn't EVER think about my Dad until after she died.

~"You are your own best thing" (c) Paul D in BELOVED

  

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akon
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:13 AM

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28. "My father died when I was two."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

shit.. and before that he'd been in england a year of my life already

I don’t feel any sense of loss.
I used to think it weird that other kids had fathers (what is that?)
I think it was only after I became good friends with this girl named Claire that
I become curious as to my father (first time asking my mom- I was about 8/9), cause she was 'daddy's little girl'
Lasted a little while. Mom’s got pissed when I lost one of two pictures
she gave me of him (lol). I later lost the other one.


Had a ‘father’ figure around 13-18 and I still hate that hypocritical bastard to this day. i really tried to like him…

the question I want to ask though… is it true that fatherless children have a resentment?
I know I don’t.
when I say I don’t understand the role of a father figure- I really don’t
Cause my mom was it and I dont *feel lacking
i think its one of those things if you dont have, you adjust.
On the other hand..

i do think if your parents break up or whatever then that’s is going
to build some sorta resentment/ create some issues….
I think that’s a very different situation from someone like me who grew up in
a single parent family and *still believes that a family can be complete with just one parent (mother or father).





>and unacknowledged?
>
>in your personal/public observations?
>
>What I mean by "fatherless" children (for the technical)
>is when the dad is not active in the child's life.
>when the dad is completely unknown to the child....
>
>"Ignored & unacknowledged" as in a father's VALUE being
>dismissed and seen as unimportant.
>As if daddy duties are non-gender specific technical tasks
>that can just as easily be performed by mommy.
>(applaud the ultra-lefty third wave feminists for that one)
>
>In my observations, within my own (black)
>demographics/culture, where the disproportionate
>children raised without their fathers is more pronounced than
>most-- I notice a very common attitude among mothers.
>
>Especially when the daddy ain't "shit"...or there was some
>bitter break-up that left very hard feelings.
>
>The dad becomes like invisible, or something. And the mom is
>okay with moving on
>with her life (granted she's gotta hold the household
>down..etc.)
>
>But kids don't seem to function that way. That man could've
>been the most low-down,
>trifling, sunuva nothin', never around mofo
>and a kid will grant him Amnesty.
>
>And the shyt does BOTHER children, as much as mofos like to
>downplay it.
>
>There's something about that crucial other half of our
>identities that just rocks us to the core of our being. Do
>you agree?
>
>It seems to me that in the face of an ANGRY child acting up in
>school, poor performance what have you,
>with all the tell tale signs of "invisible daddy syndrome",
>even teachers and school counselors can't
>speak the unspeakable due to the fear of having somebody's
>momma jump down their throats!
>
>What have your personal experiences been? What have your
>public observations been?
>
>Any refreshing stories out there about women YOU KNOW who do
>manage to "hold shyt down"
>without talking badly about the child's father around them or
>renouncing his existence altogether? (even if he was a lowly
>muthf***?)
>
>Go. I'm very interested in your opinions.
>
>I'll be back with my other copper coin--about my own familial
>& personal experiences.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>http://www.43things.com/person/kimluv

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:17 AM

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31. "i think u have a different outlook on it because your father passed not"
In response to Reply # 28
Tue Apr-04-06 09:17 AM by sugaStix

  

          

made the conscious decision to abandon u or continually disappoint u.





Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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akon
Charter member
27010 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:36 AM

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39. "i guess i was responding to the 'completely unknown' part."
In response to Reply # 31
Tue Apr-04-06 09:58 AM by akon

  

          

i guess im also one of those folks that do believe that a mother can perform both roles if need be (i.e daddy's duties are non gender specific. i feel like maybe i should ask, like really, what *are these father's duties. the 13-18 period of my life i dont count because if i used that man as a standard for a 'father figure then i'd probably consider fathers as trifling)
but i dont understand what these roles/duties are...
like maybe there should be some gaping void left to be filled.



i do see how your point is different from mine though.
i would probably be a very different person if my father
was alive (my step sister wasn't very impressed- she spent about 10yrs with him). i'd probably be having those resentment issues or whatever. but that would be an impact i think anyone hurt or abandoned would feel.



>made the conscious decision to abandon u or continually
>disappoint u.
>
>
>
>
>
>Not for long... (c) the russian

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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StirsDsoul
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Tue Apr-04-06 10:18 AM

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49. "this part confuses and concerns me........."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          



you acknowledge that you don't know what the father's role should be......yet you don't/prefer not to recognize any loss or negative feelings towards these circumstances?

  

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akon
Charter member
27010 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 07:59 PM

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104. "but i dont feel any loss or negative feeling.."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

i just know that my circumstance was me and my mom.
do i feel like i miss out on anything? no
when my friends were talking about their fathers did '
i feel like i was being cheated out of some experience, no/
do i feel like i lack something as an adult or that because my peers were from two parent homes they fared better than me (hell no!)

so i dont understand where you are getting this loss or negative feeling.

one thing i see though, is that my situation (as suga) pointed out could be considered different from one in which you have a father and then he bounces..

but all these statements about, kids from single parent homes got some kinda issue because of that are irking. i dont have any issues (well, outside what is normal for all folks)



>
>
> you acknowledge that you don't know what the father's role
>should be......yet you don't/prefer not to recognize any loss
>or negative feelings towards these circumstances?
>
>

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
18030 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:08 PM

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106. "it's called projection...."
In response to Reply # 104


  

          

coupled with self-righteous pity.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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Torez
Charter member
19262 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:17 AM

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33. "i don't think it goes ignored....."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-04-06 09:25 AM by Torez

  

          

i think women are aware of it,
but the awareness comes too late...

they start off thinking (or hoping)
they can hold it down by themselves,
but there is a cost to that. women
are not men and vice versa and sooner
or later the emotional toll of trying
to play both roles has to get paid.

so, mama take collateral emotional damage
offbreak. even if its not major, there's
wear and tear that is extra.

meanwhile, sonduke will eventually outgrow
his full blown fear of mama and start 'smelling
himself.' <--- old folks term for puberty

mama can keep applying the heat, but it will
eventually get on sonduke's nerves and he
will start to resent her. <--- this will then play out in his later dealings with women

on the flip, younghoney won't know what a
loving relationship with a man looks like,
oftentimes, particularly is momduke is a
good mama and devotes herself to the kids
and work. momduke won't have any time for a
man, and ironically, her devotion to the proper
things will make it even harder for younghoney
to see what a 'good man' is supposed to do.

its a tough, tough situation, because on one
hand i totally understand the female impulse
to not wallow in selfpity, get on her grind
and 'do what she gotta' to hold it down for
her kids and her household.

however - and oh god, me and zora are agreeeing
AGAIN!!! - i think the upperwest side, starbucks
feminism that says 'i need a man like a fish
needs a bicycle' has reinforced a dismissal of
men in our community that is detrimental.

when i was younger, i saw a blue collar feminism
practiced by a lot of black women that was more
practical to their existence. sheer economics
dictated that a man in the house = more stability,
more safety from hoods, more benefits for the kids,
etc. and so, that economic reality would be factored
into any calculations about what to do about 'my man.'

elite feminists living off a trust fund don't have
to make those hard choices. <--- which is why i don't respect their theories.

<--- NEW ART!! NEW ART!!! NEW ART!!!
* all comments made about women apply to the formerly single TOREZ only

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:21 AM

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35. "so are u saying that a child who has a mom from a wealthy"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

upbringing, who is left high and dry with a child, children won't hurt from not having a father?



Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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Torez
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:56 AM

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43. "no...i didn't explain my position properly..."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

i think all children suffer from not
having both parents.

so yeah, halle berry's child will miss
not having daddy, no matter how much
money halle has. folks think money
can supplement dad, but i disagree
with that.

parents are far more crucial to a child's
well being than money will ever be.

i'd argue that are grandparents generation
are much more well adjusted than we are,
despite the huge wealth gap between our
generations. why? they had parents and a
huge extended family network to rear them.

we don't, and are trying to replace that void
with loot.

meanwhile, brothers in my generation are the
most emotionally stunted on record. (see: blues
vs. jagged edge)

i think starbucks feminism is built on a faulty
premise, but money masks a lot of stuff, so that
again - by the time folks figure out that wealth
cannot replace daddy's - its too late. little
ridge has already been to rehab and flunked out of
a couple of private academies.

parents can't be replaced, yo.
<--- NEW ART!! NEW ART!!! NEW ART!!!
* all comments made about women apply to the formerly single TOREZ only

  

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lingo
Charter member
61467 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:33 AM

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38. "wtf are you talking about? all the men that I know have the utmost"
In response to Reply # 33


          

respect for their mother for holding it down in spite of the absentee dad.

  

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Torez
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19262 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 10:04 AM

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46. "despite your belligerence, i'ma try to have a convo with you...."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

you're right, to a certain extent.

i have the utmost respect for my single
mom for holding it down, too. one of
my comics - NEFERTITI JONES - is about
a single mother who is also a superhero.
(peep the avatar)

i did an interview in my local paper and
basically said 'single moms are the heroes
of our community.' after hearing my life
story, the reporter figured out that i
NEFERTITI JONES was probably inspred by
my mom.

but guess what? please don't think when i
was younger i didn't resent and have a problem
with 'assertive, 'loudmouthed' balck women.'

cause i did. and i'm old enough to know that
a lot of that resentment came from being on
the recevinging end of a women who had to do what
she had to do to keep me in line.

its complicated, even contradictory, i suppose
but i think its fully possible to feel both things:
admiration for her for making me the man i am
today, and resentment at her tactics.

truthfully, if my mom had not remarried when
i was younger, and if i didn't have my stepdad
to show me the proper way to abide in a relationship,
i doubt i'd be able to pull of a marriage.

kids need daddies, yo.
<--- NEW ART!! NEW ART!!! NEW ART!!!
* all comments made about women apply to the formerly single TOREZ only

  

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coffeebean
Member since Apr 18th 2005
282 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:20 AM

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34. "I have to agree with this 100%"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

So much effort goes into filling that "void" and making all adult parties involved feel better about the absence of the biological father figure that many times the feelings of the child themselves get overlooked. I've felt that way many a time as a kid. I'm not entirely fatherless, I know who my father is and I speak to him irregularly but he wasn't involved for the most part in how I was raised. I still remember the day my parents split, I was 5 and no one explained to me while my father was packing his things that he wasn't coming back. I thought he was going camping and I remember being more than a little upset that he wasn't taking me with him. It wasn't until about a week later when it was explained to me that Daddy was now living somewhere else, away from us. From that day on, I grieved for the loss of my dad and yes that grief does manifest itself in various ways.

I was blessed to have a loving grandfather who stepped in as the primary father figure in my life and is still so to this day plus my mother's 2 brothers so it dulled the pain a lot but as sugastix said, nothing will ever completely fill that void. I'm still angry in a sense not for my father's negligence of me, I'm an adult now, but of his negligence of my little brother the one person who needs him the most. Little bro is only 12 and has very little positive male influence in his life now as it is so I worry deeply about his future.

As far as the relationship btwn my mother and my father, it was WW3 the first few years as they were sorting out the aftermath of the end of their marriage but my mother never once in all the years I've known her talked badly about my father. If I ever spoke ill of him, she would correct me immediately and remind me that he was my father, still worthy of respect. If anything it was my DAD who spoke ill of her, even going so far as to lie about her when recounting stories to his friends when he and I both knew the truth. My mom and I actually had a convo about this not too long ago and the basic outcome of that was the conclusion that she did the right thing by never badmouthing my dad and never allowing me too either because my father's actions (or should I say inaction) spoke louder than any curse we could've done at my dad's name


>and unacknowledged?
>
>in your personal/public observations?
>
>What I mean by "fatherless" children (for the technical)
>is when the dad is not active in the child's life.
>when the dad is completely unknown to the child....
>
>"Ignored & unacknowledged" as in a father's VALUE being
>dismissed and seen as unimportant.
>As if daddy duties are non-gender specific technical tasks
>that can just as easily be performed by mommy.
>(applaud the ultra-lefty third wave feminists for that one)
>
>In my observations, within my own (black)
>demographics/culture, where the disproportionate
>children raised without their fathers is more pronounced than
>most-- I notice a very common attitude among mothers.
>
>Especially when the daddy ain't "shit"...or there was some
>bitter break-up that left very hard feelings.
>
>The dad becomes like invisible, or something. And the mom is
>okay with moving on
>with her life (granted she's gotta hold the household
>down..etc.)
>
>But kids don't seem to function that way. That man could've
>been the most low-down,
>trifling, sunuva nothin', never around mofo
>and a kid will grant him Amnesty.
>
>And the shyt does BOTHER children, as much as mofos like to
>downplay it.
>
>There's something about that crucial other half of our
>identities that just rocks us to the core of our being. Do
>you agree?
>
>It seems to me that in the face of an ANGRY child acting up in
>school, poor performance what have you,
>with all the tell tale signs of "invisible daddy syndrome",
>even teachers and school counselors can't
>speak the unspeakable due to the fear of having somebody's
>momma jump down their throats!
>
>What have your personal experiences been? What have your
>public observations been?
>
>Any refreshing stories out there about women YOU KNOW who do
>manage to "hold shyt down"
>without talking badly about the child's father around them or
>renouncing his existence altogether? (even if he was a lowly
>muthf***?)
>
>Go. I'm very interested in your opinions.
>
>I'll be back with my other copper coin--about my own familial
>& personal experiences.

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:06 AM

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59. "this is exactly what happened to me:"
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

>So much effort goes into filling that "void" and making all
>adult parties involved feel better about the absence of the
>biological father figure that many times the feelings of the
>child themselves get overlooked.

they were all so concerned w/making themselves feel better about the absence of my father (and mother) that my feelings were overlooked.

fuck you.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12171 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:52 AM

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41. "Yep."
In response to Reply # 0


          

The absence of a relationship with my bio father has certainly been the key factor in my views on marriage and family.

In sum, I'm adamant about ensuring that my children are brought into this world with the best tools in my armamentarium. Second best is unacceptable.

As I think about it, this has really driven a lot of goals/accomplishments/behaviors in my life now.

  

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NETER
Member since Apr 08th 2005
756 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 12:54 PM

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83. "RE: Yep."
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

>The absence of a relationship with my bio father has
>certainly been the key factor in my views on marriage and
>family.

Yea, but that's something you gotta watch closely.. you can't shift the emotional weight and void from what was perceived as lacking in one relationship to expectations in another... basically, u cant channel the perceived potential energy you may feel was missing from the relationship to building bonds with your mate/kids.. thats means you're just shifting the need from happiness from one person to another person or persons...correct me if I'm assuming too much

>In sum, I'm adamant about ensuring that my children are
>brought into this world with the best tools in my
>armamentarium. Second best is unacceptable.
>
>As I think about it, this has really driven a lot of
>goals/accomplishments/behaviors in my life now.
>
>


An action cannot be call or considered willed behavior if it is motivated by feelings or emotions.

http://www.myspace.com/bearly504

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12171 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 03:04 PM

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97. "Hmmm..."
In response to Reply # 83


          


>Yea, but that's something you gotta watch closely.. you can't
>shift the emotional weight and void from what was perceived as
>lacking in one relationship to expectations in another...
>basically, u cant channel the perceived potential energy you
>may feel was missing from the relationship to building bonds
>with your mate/kids.. thats means you're just shifting the
>need from happiness from one person to another person or
>persons...correct me if I'm assuming too much
>

I'm not sure if I'm following you here. I've no real expectations other than those that *I* can control. But to clarify my point.... I'm saying that the lack of stability -- certainly driven by my young mother and absentee father -- is primarily what shapes how I view the importance of family today and is what influences my current behaviors.

That is, my child(ren) deserve *all* of the tools in my arsenal, not just the ones that are convenient, or the ones that I -- and by extension, they -- are stuck with b/c of XYZ reason. And part of that, for me, is ensuring (to the extent that I can, of course) that the home/life/environment I bring them into is as stable and loving as humanly possible.

The flipside of that is, in the event that "things happen," appropriately acknowledging, taking responsibility for, and addressing the effect that might have on my kids FIRST.

  

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sunchild
Member since Sep 05th 2005
13797 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 02:41 PM

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93. "me and you are >here<"
In response to Reply # 41


  

          

its alot of stuff i did and DID NOT do
because of that situation

-----------
At the very least, one can agree that having the people who have victimized you quantify your mistreatment invokes a sizable conflict of interest.

  

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dopestethiopian
Member since Oct 21st 2004
2705 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 10:13 AM

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47. "well"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i knew my father, but after my parents divorced he's basically become null and void since then. i dont think my mom unders the degree to which this has affected me. she grew up in a huge family, in another country and culture where "this" was not as common, and was extremely close to her father, but he died when she was a teenager. i dont know if she acts to protect me and make me feel better about him not being around by devaluing his importance or she really believes this.

In all honesty, i did not acknowledge his value until college. Then, I began to realize how he affected many aspects of my life, i.e. the very low self esteem, not trusting people in general, difficulty maintaing any type of relationship, etc.

My mother never portrayed my dad in a bad light, ever. I remember that annoying me many times. she was the one to push me to call him, email him, to get close to him. When I wanted nothing to do with him, she was the one pushing for us to be close. I never understoood why she did this. I finally asked and she said she thought i would blame her for me not having a relationship with him.

My mother amazes me. This man went from spoiling me to completely ignoring my existence. He never paid child support, until I turned 15 (and my parent divorced when i was 7) because we didnt know where he was. He disappeared that whole time, no one knew where he was. He even tried to claim all the gifts he gave me to reduce his child support. I mean there are thousands of stories i could tell and i know my mom would love to kill him if she could, but she never said one malicious thing about him in front of me when i was a child.

My mom really held shit down though, worked two jobs at times, but was always around. she never had any boyfriends, she didnt want to bring men into the house. Though, I wish she got married. I excelled in school and got extremely close to her in the process. I do have issues with relationships and my own self esteem, but no matter how much she does for me, she cannot fill that void.


i typed too much, but i do like this post.

  

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shamus
Member since Oct 18th 2004
4465 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 10:54 AM

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57. "i can relate to this"
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

i don't really have problems with trust. however, i often wonder if my relationships, particularly with men (not just speaking romantically) would manifest themselves differently if he had been present during my formative years. i grew up around mostly women/girls, so not having that initial male relationship i'm realizing might be much more crucial than i previously thought.

>
>In all honesty, i did not acknowledge his value until college.
>Then, I began to realize how he affected many aspects of my
>life, i.e. the very low self esteem, not trusting people in
>general, difficulty maintaing any type of relationship, etc.
>
>
> I do have issues with relationships and my own
>self esteem, but no matter how much she does for me, she
>cannot fill that void.
>


--
the untold want by life and land ne'er granted
now voyager sail thou forth to seek and find

  

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dopestethiopian
Member since Oct 21st 2004
2705 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 02:56 PM

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94. "I always wonder too"
In response to Reply # 57


  

          

I know it would be different. I now notice a lot of my behavior
manifesting from the WAY he left. I dont trust anyone except my mom, at all, and its too extreme. At one point, I remember sabotaging relationships just to keep people from hurting me. im still working on this. so as soon as i see an inkling of someone not being trust worthy, i cut them off.

  

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truth0ne SGC
Member since Sep 25th 2003
38103 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 01:14 PM

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85. "Oh, man..."
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

What do you think made him change up like that?

That sounds quite cold and heartless.

  

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dopestethiopian
Member since Oct 21st 2004
2705 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 02:36 PM

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92. "i dont think ill ever know the answer to that"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

and im finally okay with it.
somethings you cannot explain.

  

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truth0ne SGC
Member since Sep 25th 2003
38103 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 02:57 PM

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95. "Word."
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

Good to see you have a positive attitude toward it.

  

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sunchild
Member since Sep 05th 2005
13797 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:22 PM

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111. "you and i have a similar story"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          

except i know why he disappeared
but the same deal of the spoiling from completely dipping
ppl are weird

-----------
At the very least, one can agree that having the people who have victimized you quantify your mistreatment invokes a sizable conflict of interest.

  

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dopestethiopian
Member since Oct 21st 2004
2705 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:34 PM

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116. "ya, i had my theories on why"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

his new wife basically being it
but i never understood why
i even wonder if he even knows why
but ya, people are weird

-----
ctrl+alt+del

  

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NikaMandela
Charter member
35230 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 10:15 AM

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48. "yes but not necessarily intentionally"
In response to Reply # 0


          

i think a single mother is so busy dealing with her own issues that its difficult for her to adequately nurture an emotionally traumatized child...

actually i dont remember feeling resentment until i got old enough to realize my father had a choice to see us or not see us...and even then i made excuses for him...the things is, you yearn to have a relationship with your father but its hard to yearn for something you dislike, so you continue yearning until the disappointments stack up and then there's resentment...

  

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SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 10:54 AM

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58. "well i grew up motherless* and fatherless**"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and yes my resentment was very much ignored. in fact i was told on more than 1 occasion not to express how much i missed my parents...not in those exact words but whenever i expressed any sadness/anger about my situation i got shut the fuck down. you know how they do it.

as for my fatherlessness specifically it was clear to me my mother was actively trying to keep us apart which was very confusing to me. he wasn't like other ppl's fathers who'd just up and disappeared...my father tried for yrs to reach me, he didn't try that hard though. my mother kept us apart b/c my father was a mess (alcoholic and heroin junkie) and she feared he'd do som'n crazy if he knew how to get to me/us. since i had a father figure around all the adults around me acted like he was supposed to be enough...as though i wasn't supposed to actually miss my real father. but i did miss him all the time. every Father's Day was especially hard. i'm still carry a great deal of resentment about how i grew up.

*...i lived w/my mother off and on until i was 8 after which i was w/my great aunt & uncle full time.

**...my mother and i left my father when i was 2. i didn't see him again until i was 17.

fuck you.

  

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Novembersgift
Member since Oct 19th 2004
16972 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:32 AM

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69. "as a child, i was very aware"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

my mother didn't have to bad talk my father (although she did, but she bad talks everyone... no biggie)
He showed me himself that he was pretty much useless and unreliable. I was aware of that at a very young age... this man is not to be counted on. This man is not to be believed. This man will not be there for you when it counts.

Granted, i had my grandfather around who was to be counted on at all times. SO there was some kind of male figure around. SOmetimes i try and think if i'm really affected by my father or lack thereof. I don't really think so. Not very deeply at least. I think i detached myself too early for him to have had much of an impact.

  

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InstruMental
Member since Nov 10th 2005
12463 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:38 AM

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71. "My moms wasn't TOO hate-talking about my father, but everything"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

she said about him was supported by allegations my (half-)brother made about dude's behavior when we were young. I was around my bio father for about 10 months, then we dipped.

I figure it was pretty serious for my moms to go all the way from Rantoul, IL to Atlanta, GA and then to St. George Island, FL to get clear of dude.

Frankly, I really didn't know what a father was growing up. Everyone else had a dad, but I didn't know what he did...I figured he just beat the kids or something, and made money. My role models were the neighborhood rednecks and Mr. T. ncrap, wherever I could find one; it didn't feel unnatural, though, because that was all I knew.

When I realized, in high school, that this was pretty unusual, I started doubting whether I should worry about having kids of my own, since I had such a gimpy fatherhood toolbox. I would commit seppuku immediately if I discovered I became one of those life-destroying fathers. That said, the internal debate continues to this day, though I've had some positive experiences with kids in the last couple years.


So who knows. I might be able to recover the fumble and make the down, or it might never come within my grasp.

<---Okay Jima (© Bridgetown)

http://www.myspace.com/musicphilosophy
http://www.myspace.com/icapinstrumental <---updated 5/31/07
http://www.soundclick.com/realsoonthemental <---NEW

  

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truth0ne SGC
Member since Sep 25th 2003
38103 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 12:00 PM

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72. "Looking back at my life, I'd say it affected me."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My father was around periodically from 1979 up until 1986 or so. At that point, he really became a hardcore alkie and pretty much gave up on being a parent and a productive member of society.

He'd pop up every blue moon from 87 to 90, but most times, he was drunk off his ass and it would result in my mother cursing him out and slamming the door in his face.

I think at that point I started to resent him, maybe due to mimicking my mother's attitude towards him. All throughout the 90s, I hadn't laid eyes on him, and only heard from him once in 1996, when my grandfather passed away. That phone convo lasted all of a minute and I would hear or see him again until 2004, when he was close to death.

Here's where it gets odd...

He got really sick in 2004, dropping down to 120lbs (his build is similar to mine, to get a visual on how bad it was) and his right leg had to be amputated above the knee. Making a recovery wasn't looking like an option for him, so my mother and I went to the nursing home to basically pay our last respects while he was still alive.

Apparently, seeing us again raised his morale enough that he started eating again and made a recovery.

Last year, he and I had that personal man-to-man chat and pretty much buried the hatchet... but his absence over 20 years or so still had an effect on me.

Behavioral problem in school, mild depression, lack of respect for other males... Luckily I pulled out of that crap, but not every kid is so lucky.

I think single mothers shouldn't let their children resent their absentee fathers. Just treat him as a distant family member, if you have to...

  

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braille
Member since Mar 09th 2004
4684 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 12:16 PM

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76. "my father passed away not divorced, but i still think i can answer this."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

i'd say yes.

i've had no real strong male influence upon my life since 8 yrs. old (when he passed).

it's pretty much always just been me, my mother, and my sister.

but in a recent argument, my mother argued that my sister has had a harder life, thus far, than i have because we were a lil more finacially stable then.

she basically completely discreded the fact that i have had to teach myself how to be a man or that a (decent) male presence might shape me. nobody tought me to shave, nobody tought me to carry myself, to stand up for myself, nothing. it's basically been trial and error.

i don't fault her for that; she has done a great job of trying to set a good core foundation to build upon and tried her damnedest to fill both roles.

but the fact still remains her and my sis can relate in that manner of gender. and she can never really fill both rolls.

i'd say it's definately made me stronger and to be honest, i've felt my father's presence w/ me on a daily basis...he may be stronger w/ me in the after life than he would have been on earth (not to inner mix my personal beliefs in but that's my feeling).

i'd say that the male presence is probably seen as disposable but it's having a greater effect on males coming up in this than people expect.

*IDEAS.*

  

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NETER
Member since Apr 08th 2005
756 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 12:37 PM

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80. "Met my Dad after 22 years (2 years ago)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

As a child, my mom never bad mouthed my dad. The moments when I began to question more (after my grandfather died and after the onet of basic biological questions) my mom alluded to the fact that her mom (my granmother's) home address and phone number had never changed and If he wanted to contact us/me, he would.

As far as her denouncing his existence, she never did. Her not doing so, I must say, helped to eliminate or prevent the potential for negative energy associated with the matter (as a youth). However, I did have some issues with my mom not completely providing the information about him until my senior year in college (names of his family members, his mom's address etc.) until after I allowed myself to get to a point of emotional instability and irrational decision-making as far as what I thought would bring me happiness or ease "pain" and the state my relationships with women i dated during that period (instead of just generating peace and happiness from within I rationalized that much of it would based on "finding" my Dad and "getting to know hinm").

An action cannot be call or considered willed behavior if it is motivated by feelings or emotions.

http://www.myspace.com/bearly504

  

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IkeMoses
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Tue Apr-04-06 01:09 PM

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84. "my moms never spoke ill of my pops"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

she spoke so well of him in fact, all i could wonder was what happened that such a great guy is not around.

i never brought it up though. my stepfather was around when he wasn't in jail or runnin the streets, and as fucked up as he could be i had a lot of love and respect for him. so all my personal torment about not knowin my biological father i just kept to myself. for a while there the plan was to find the nigga and body him on sight. thankfully i grew up before that happened.

my auntie was the only person to suggest that my biological pops had issues. when i finally met dude, sometime before turning 16, he disclosed his entire crack-riddled past.

so word, for the most part that shit was just kept in the background. i went through it personally, but i never took it out on my moms, cause she never had nothin but positive things to say about my pops. in a way she gave me a blank page to create the image of the father i wanted.

-30-

i'm just sittin' on the dock, nigga.

  

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Mslibrar
Member since Nov 13th 2003
21227 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 01:32 PM

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86. "It does"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I know I personally had/have? that syndrome. My son is starting to show symtoms too. Vicious cycle. I try to get his pops involved more consistantly but *shrug* he's a grow ass man who does what he wants. Sometimes as a single parent you just get tired of fighting a grown man about doing something he should already be doing. Its very possible not to bad talk a father infront of his child. My mother didn't do it often, but my father made it easy for me to peep game. I do my best not to trash talk my sons dad I've slipped a few times...but his pops makes it easy for him to see the deal so...what do we do? K.I.M.

  

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Hitokiri
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22210 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 02:07 PM

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90. "In my case..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I don't feel not having a father has affected my academically, socially or my behavior... I mean I don't think i really know how to be romantic and i don't know much about cars but that's about it.

But my mother never spoke about my father. She never mentioned him without me asking something about him. She just seemed to move passed it, with no resentment towards him though i think there's gotta be some. I had a step-dad for a little while, I think I dislike him more than my actual father that I've never met.

--

"You can't beat white people. You can only knock them out."

  

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ChanEpic
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4298 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 02:27 PM

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91. "RE: does the *resentment* held by fatherless *children* go ignored?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Not having a father in my life was THE defining aspect of my current persona. I am the Father-less artist and although my art(music) has benefitted from my absentee father my personal and emotional well being was/is hamstrung. My disfucntion went ignored even by myself. I never really thought about how I was brought up until I hung around other adults that have both of their parents present in their life. Certain things like being able to call and ask for financial help, to advice on dating, were all completely foreign to me. I honestly didn't know that you COULD turn to others for help. My upbringing forced me to be independent and at first I thought that was a good thing. I to this day have a REAL hard time accepting the kindness of others for what it is, kindness. I attribute that DIRECTLY to the absence of my father.

  

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k_orr
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:04 PM

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105. "I don't resent dude, or maybe my resentment was ignored"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I'm not sure I get this question, but I understand the rationale is that the ideal situation is the nuclear family.

Or better stated, in 2006 US of A, the ideal situation to raise children is a nuclear family with loving parents, no substance abuse issues, and money for the things like food and health insurance.

As far as for not learning how to do x,y,z because there wasn't a male influence - that's some dr. phil shit.

one
k. orr
COGITO ERGO DOLEO

  

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kysersozey
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13602 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:22 PM

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110. "In general, the importance of fatherhood has been ignored"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

  

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sunchild
Member since Sep 05th 2005
13797 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:24 PM

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112. "and i hate that"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

and i dont care who argues me or what
i sumbit you cannot be a whole person without both of your parents
i dont care how well you did, how well you coped, how much money you got, or how much you think it doesnt matter

-----------
At the very least, one can agree that having the people who have victimized you quantify your mistreatment invokes a sizable conflict of interest.

  

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kysersozey
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:39 PM

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119. "I think it's long overdue that parents get a kick in the ass"
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

for not sucking it up in marraige. I know there are isolated cases where shit can't be worked out, ie abuse of any kind, some DL shit, etc. But divorcing someone 'cause they don't quite melt the cheese right in the eggs no more is some bullshit. Grown ass folks expecting children to carry the burden of divorce instead of them carrying the burden of marraige... if it comes to that point. I've accepted the fact that children have the right to a 2 parent household... unless the environment is unsafe. Unhealthy... so what, they'll learn how to deal with life's uncompromising dealt hand.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:25 PM

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113. "excellent"
In response to Reply # 110


  

          


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12171 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:26 PM

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114. "Yep."
In response to Reply # 110


          

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
18030 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:38 PM

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118. "LOL. stfu."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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kysersozey
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:41 PM

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123. "Ha! ... you know it's true"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
18030 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:45 PM

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127. "actually. the opposite it true."
In response to Reply # 123


  

          

mofos harp about fatherhood all the live long day. and fewer (according to the stats, at least) are actually BEING fathers.

so like, the conversation is tired.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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kysersozey
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:47 PM

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128. "So are you saying Motherhood>>Fatherhood...or"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

it doesn't matter

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
18030 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:53 PM

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133. "i'm saying that healthy homes vary in structure and demographics."
In response to Reply # 128


  

          

there's no type.

further that if a dude is committed to being involved, in a tangible way, in his child life he could establish paternity, pay child support, and get visitation. but no, folks rather demoan the lack of a nuclear family.

folks gonna keep having babies out of wedlock and will continue getting divorced. some of the folks, in the VERY post, will get divorced in the future and have to eat their words. so i'm sayin, let's deal with the realities folks face and not fantasy pipedreams about what a family "should" look like.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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kysersozey
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13602 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:59 PM

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139. "That's why I say adults need to look past themselves when"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

thinking of divorce. I know some marraiges can't be saved, but I'm sure you and I know people who've divorced some something completely ignorant. Likewise, some people should not even be together at all... you know the superficial marraiges: she had a nice ass, now it's flabby...I'm out, or he lost his good job, now he's flipping burgers, so I flipped him the bird.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
18030 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:01 PM

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140. "should someone that shallow be exposed to children?"
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

lol

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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kysersozey
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:03 PM

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145. "It doesn't mean they can't be a good parent, maybe not"
In response to Reply # 140


  

          

a good spouse.

  

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akon
Charter member
27010 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:06 PM

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147. "i doubt someone that concerned with superficialities"
In response to Reply # 145


  

          

can be a good parent. whether they are in a dual commitment or not.


>a good spouse.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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kysersozey
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13602 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:08 PM

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151. "You'd be surprised... you prolly know someone like this"
In response to Reply # 147


  

          

I certainly do... several people, and believe it or not, most of them are women.

  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12171 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:10 PM

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153. "What words would those be?"
In response to Reply # 133


          


>
>some of the folks, in the VERY
>post, will get divorced in the future and have to eat their
>words.

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:13 PM

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155. "this is definately tru, but as long as ppl know about the alternative"
In response to Reply # 133


  

          

"the two parent heterosexual structure" then it is going to be very hard for children that are not in those types of situations to feel like they have no missed out on something

i mean the nuclear str8 family is constantly reinforced all the time, we have to go a long way to get to comfort in all the different,( in truth equally good) types of families.

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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akon
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27010 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:33 PM

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115. "so what's this father's role?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and how is it different from a mother's
or what instances are there that a mother cannot fulfil them
and if you are gonna come up with an 'teach you how to be a man' ish then please explain what this 'be a man' ish is.
and then someone explain that in the context of if the person is female,
what does the father teach them that is unique and can only be gotten from the fact that he's a man.

im truly curious.

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
18030 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:39 PM

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120. "a friend of mine once said that little girls need their fathers..."
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

to tell them that their pretty so that they won't be promiscuous.

*smh*

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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k_orr
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:40 PM

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121. "damn"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

  

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akon
Charter member
27010 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:42 PM

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124. "btw k_orr, i like your posts. nm"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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k_orr
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:48 PM

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129. "*blushes*"
In response to Reply # 124


  

          

  

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kysersozey
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Tue Apr-04-06 08:42 PM

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125. "If it were only that simple"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

  

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akon
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27010 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:45 PM

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126. "so we are dealing with mysterious forces here?"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

like you *know they exist but you can't quite tell?

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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KCPlayer21
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30076 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:01 PM

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142. "Its a little more complicated than that....."
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

but I won't even waste time going into details cause you'll just laugh it off anyway. Carry on.....



<---- KCPlayer21 Jr.

  

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akon
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27010 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:08 PM

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150. "u are assuming that i will laugh it off, when really, i want to know."
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:08 PM

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149. "RE: so what's this father's role?"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

like i said before, i'm not sure u can truly understand... but try to think about it like this...

did u ever wish, even for a second, that you could've "known" your father?

if so. then think about how you would feel, wanting a connection, wishing u could- and knowing he doesn't want to know you. that he made the conscious decision to not be in your life. and he continues to make that decision every single day.



>and how is it different from a mother's
i'm sure that depends on the household. but my fathers role was very different than my mothers. my father was the fun parent. he taught me how to play sports, he cooked dinner every single day, he made sure i enjoyed life. he made me laugh after my mom fussed at me and made me feel bad. he balanced our household out. had it not been for him, i probably woulda kilt myself by age 11. lol. my mom was very strict and only cared about one thing: school. so mom nurtured my brain and my father nurtured my spirit.

>or what instances are there that a mother cannot fulfil them
>and if you are gonna come up with an 'teach you how to be a
>man' ish then please explain what this 'be a man' ish is.
>and then someone explain that in the context of if the person
>is female,
>what does the father teach them that is unique and can only be
>gotten from the fact that he's a man.

again, its definitely dependent upon the household. my mother and father's relationship taught me all the things a man is capable of being in a relationship. it taught me not to believe the stereotypes that all men cheat, that a woman's role is to solely care for her man and her children, it taught me that my man should be just as supportive of my dreams and ambitions as i am of his, that men can do laundry-lol, etc. lots of things really. my father defines the kind of man i wanted to marry, minus his corny jokes-lol. to know that a man like my father exists in this world taught me to never settle for some no good as nigga that does not do right by me. and "right by me" was determined by all the things my father is.

and while you, may not have felt or believe you were affected in any manner by having a one parent household. the truth is, when there are two parents who share a healthy and happy home, having them both there creates a stability, an emotional support, a balance that one parent alone can not achieve.

i know personally, had i only had my mother, life wouldn't have been half of what is was for me. i was able to do so many things, all because i had two parents. i didn't have to not participate in things because it interfered with one parents schedule. i had a financially stable household so the threat of one parent losing the only job they had to support me was never issue (and my mom did get laid off when i was 13 and it had no affect on us because my dad was there). I had someone to cook dinner, make sure i did my homework, someone to talk to about problems, just... i always had SOMEONE there, regardless if the other one was stressed out about something, tired, sick, just emotionally or physically unavailable to my needs. i always had someone there.

and like mostly anything else, 2 heads are better than 1. in most cases.


had my father not come around and fell in love with my mom and decided to adopt me. i probably would have been much like my cousins who were raised by single moms. latch key kids, no one to show up to support me in school activities, never ate dinner as a family, grew up on microwavable dinners and hotpockets, doing things i shouldn't have been like skipping school, drinking, fucking. i definitely wouldn't have been able to see the world as i have been able to, cause my momma wouldn't have been to afford it.

i'm not saying that kids that are raised with only one parent, do all the fucked up shit kids shouldn't be and stuff. this is the case with my cousins tho, and i had i not had my father, they are the crowd i definitely would've been hanging out with because i would've been left over one of their houses while my mom worked or went back to school or just plain old needed a fucking break. lol



and like i said before my father just, just, balanced everything out. and also like i said in my toast to him on his 50th birthday last year- "dad, my momma might have given me life, but YOU showed me how to LIVE"



and with that, i'mma call him just to say, i love u.
lol

i'm so fucking sappy
sumbody slap me





>
>im truly curious.
>


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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KCPlayer21
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:11 PM

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154. "I don't even need to type anything else....."
In response to Reply # 149


  

          


<---- KCPlayer21 Jr.

  

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kysersozey
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:36 PM

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157. "Post over"
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:43 PM

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159. "that's YOUR experience, and that's wonderful."
In response to Reply # 149


  

          

dont make it universal, however.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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Tue Apr-04-06 09:49 PM

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160. "um, where did i attempt to??"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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akon
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Tue Apr-04-06 10:00 PM

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163. "here..."
In response to Reply # 160


  

          

"and while you, may not have felt or believe you were affected
>in any manner by having a one parent household. the truth is,
>when there are two parents who share a healthy and happy home,
>having them both there creates a stability, an emotional
>support, a balance that one parent alone can not achieve."

that insinuation that one parent cannot achieve what your family did.



>

>Not for long... (c) the russian

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
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Tue Apr-04-06 10:23 PM

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165. "and i don't view that as opinion, that is fact."
In response to Reply # 163
Tue Apr-04-06 10:24 PM by sugaStix

  

          

stability- two incomes is greater than one

emotional support- having two people to talk to, depend on, support you, is better than having one. you're a grown adult now right, if u had to put together a team for a project, everyone is equal on all levels, and u could choose to have either 1 or 2 ppl, would u just choose 1? i dont think u would. the more support the better, right?


balance- how can 1 person balance a household? if u have a scale, and drop one lb of something on it, could it remain at balance? no. in a household with 2 parents, duties are split. at least thats how it was in my home. no one parent was responsible for EVERYTHING. the kids, the bills, the cooking, the cleaning, the laundry, the errands, the fixing shit around the house. in one parent households that one parent is responsible for EVERYTHING, right? in my home growing up that was not the case. there was an equal balance of duties. that's what i meant by that.



i am not trying to convince you that your life sucked and u just dont know it yet. lol. not at all. i truly admire your mom for doing such a great job and making sure there was no void there from the lost of your father. it is truly admirable. she honestly, should write a book, give seminars, sumn. lol. cause her wisdom is definitely needed in our world.


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
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Tue Apr-04-06 10:37 PM

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167. "the alternative to a two parent household is just a single parent one."
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

plus, support networks are often vast.

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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akon
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Tue Apr-04-06 10:50 PM

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168. "we are back and forthing, here, arent we?"
In response to Reply # 165


  

          

maybe the issue here is that i dont define these terms the way you are,

to me stability = having foodshelterclothing and education.
that can be achieved with one income or two.
it's all very relative. unless we are talking about a level of lifestyle that can be afforded and to me that has nothing to do with stability. everyone wishes they had a million more dollars to buy *more food have bigger housing and better clothes. does that make them more stable than the person that is getting these needs met, just *not at the same $ value?

emotional support= having someone to talk to (my mom) someone that believes in me (my mom) someone that is there for me regardless (my mom) and im not saying we dont clash heads. lordknowswedo (we are too similar not to)

i currently work in a project with 1 other person. it's projected to become *the money maker this fiscal year so a lot of times, there's folks that are trying to get involved. sometimes its beneficial, a lot of times its adding work that *we feel plays no role in what we are trying to do. this is one case in which i would choose only one person. before i came aboard, the person that thought up this project, wrote up the proposal and did the initial work to convince the bigwigs that it was viable did it solo. again, it's all relative.
mom's probably did get tired of shouldering the whole 'burden'.... it didn't lead to some sort of shortage in my upbringing though.

i gotta go to sleep, babe.
this has been a good convo.
yes, i do agree that you have a fantastic childhood experience because you had a father. i hope i haven't in any of this back and forth'in said otherwise.

g'night.


>stability- two incomes is greater than one
>
>emotional support- having two people to talk to, depend on,
>support you, is better than having one. you're a grown adult
>now right, if u had to put together a team for a project,
>everyone is equal on all levels, and u could choose to have
>either 1 or 2 ppl, would u just choose 1? i dont think u
>would. the more support the better, right?
>
>
>balance- how can 1 person balance a household? if u have a
>scale, and drop one lb of something on it, could it remain at
>balance? no. in a household with 2 parents, duties are split.
>at least thats how it was in my home. no one parent was
>responsible for EVERYTHING. the kids, the bills, the cooking,
>the cleaning, the laundry, the errands, the fixing shit around
>the house. in one parent households that one parent is
>responsible for EVERYTHING, right? in my home growing up that
>was not the case. there was an equal balance of duties. that's
>what i meant by that.
>
>
>
>i am not trying to convince you that your life sucked and u
>just dont know it yet. lol. not at all. i truly admire your
>mom for doing such a great job and making sure there was no
>void there from the lost of your father. it is truly
>admirable. she honestly, should write a book, give seminars,
>sumn. lol. cause her wisdom is definitely needed in our
>world.
>
>
>Not for long... (c) the russian

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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akon
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Tue Apr-04-06 10:53 PM

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170. "btw.. im so glad you and ace got back together"
In response to Reply # 168


  

          

it was a sad era that, when mofos was hating on you for some rumours, gossip and other similar bullshyte- acting like they were *in your house and knew *everything that was happening in your life.

y'all sound happy together.

(just an aside)

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:14 PM

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172. "LOL, girl they still do. ahahahahaha"
In response to Reply # 170


  

          

funny cause i only have forreal 2 okpfriends. its funny how everybody *think* they know what i'm doing, and the workings of my marriage and household. real funny. the ppl that do KNOW and i think its hilarious. actually, it kinda pisses off the ppl that do know, but now that they see it dont bother me they're cool about it.



ppl have some wild imaginations and misconceived notions. its sad to me, to think how miserable their lives must be to be so concerned and involved in the life of someone they know nothing about. i actually think there's at least one fool on here that has notebook full of shit they've read from me and heard about me and sits for hours tryna piece that shit together. LMFAO

just waiting for that missing piece.


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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akon
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27010 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:56 PM

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162. "good answers, shug..."
In response to Reply # 149
Tue Apr-04-06 10:04 PM by akon

  

          

>did u ever wish, even for a second, that you could've "known"
>your father?

i said before that when i made friends with this girl who spoke about her father all the time, i asked my mom about old man. did that significantly change my life, i dont think so.

>
>if so. then think about how you would feel, wanting a
>connection, wishing u could- and knowing he doesn't want to
>know you. that he made the conscious decision to not be in
>your life. and he continues to make that decision every single
>day.

(we already agreed this doesn't *quite fit my situation, right?)


>>and how is it different from a mother's
>i'm sure that depends on the household. but my fathers role
>was very different than my mothers.

my father was the fun
>parent. he taught me how to play sports, he cooked dinner
>every single day, he made sure i enjoyed life. he made me
>laugh after my mom fussed at me and made me feel bad. he
>balanced our household out. had it not been for him, i
>probably woulda kilt myself by age 11. lol. my mom was very
>strict and only cared about one thing: school. so mom nurtured
>my brain and my father nurtured my spirit.

this is great. im not at all going to take away from your experience.
i can also say the same thing though, even though it wont be in terms of mom and dad. mom's was strick yes, i had to have good grades, i got that ass whooping when i was bad. but every time i got an ass whooping i got a reason behind why. and almost always after that ass whooping we would do things together- she'd take me out, or something. and there were also the fun times that we had. we didn't exactly live in a vacuum. we hang out with other folks and i feel added benefits from that too. shit some of my earliest memories was that every weekend we would go out with my mom and other parents/kids. i also remember my mom doing 'fun things' with me. i enjoyed life. again. it doesn't take away from your situation, neither should it from mine.

>
>>or what instances are there that a mother cannot fulfil them
>>and if you are gonna come up with an 'teach you how to be a
>>man' ish then please explain what this 'be a man' ish is.
>>and then someone explain that in the context of if the
>person
>>is female,
>>what does the father teach them that is unique and can only
>be
>>gotten from the fact that he's a man.
>
>again, its definitely dependent upon the household. my mother
>and father's relationship taught me all the things a man is
>capable of being in a relationship. it taught me not to
>believe the stereotypes that all men cheat, that a woman's
>role is to solely care for her man and her children, it taught
>me that my man should be just as supportive of my dreams and
>ambitions as i am of his, that men can do laundry-lol, etc.
>lots of things really. my father defines the kind of man i
>wanted to marry, minus his corny jokes-lol. to know that a man
>like my father exists in this world taught me to never settle
>for some no good as nigga that does not do right by me. and
>"right by me" was determined by all the things my father is.

well.. i guess here i can say that i wasn't raised to expect men to only be a certain way. i certainly dont think men are trifling or any of that and neither im i willing to settle with anyone that does not offer me support emotionally (male or female). whether i need it in my goals or ambitions or unrealistic dreams or whatever. mom's favourite phrase is 'be a woman of substance. i.e to do better in your life -dont have standards that limit what you can and cannot do. sounds like what your father taught you, right. when i was in relationships with dudes, i certainly wasn't going to settle just because. shit my momma set a damn high standard. she accomplished a of a lot and i expect the person i end up with is also going to be a go getter. every relationship i enter the only expectation i have is that it be a partnership- dont have expectations of me that you are unwilling to meet if the tables were turned. dont expect support when you dont offer any. dont expect me to be some domestic doormat and i shouldn't ever ask you to do laundry or the dishes. that kind of shit.
>
>and while you, may not have felt or believe you were affected
>in any manner by having a one parent household. the truth is,
>when there are two parents who share a healthy and happy home,
>having them both there creates a stability, an emotional
>support, a balance that one parent alone can not achieve.

again, sugastix.... im not in any way diminishing your experience. please dont diminish mine. i can say there are a lot of things that because my mother was a single parent she taught me that i probably wouldn't have learnt, or i would have learnt much later in life. i do have that stability, emotional support and balance you are talking about. it's not lacking because my dad wasn't there.

>
>i know personally, had i only had my mother, life wouldn't
>have been half of what is was for me. i was able to do so many
>things, all because i had two parents. i didn't have to not
>participate in things because it interfered with one parents
>schedule. i had a financially stable household so the threat
>of one parent losing the only job they had to support me was
>never issue (and my mom did get laid off when i was 13 and it
>had no affect on us because my dad was there). I had someone
>to cook dinner, make sure i did my homework, someone to talk
>to about problems, just... i always had SOMEONE there,
>regardless if the other one was stressed out about something,
>tired, sick, just emotionally or physically unavailable to my
>needs. i always had someone there.

having just one income taught me that life is not a piece of cake. it taught me to value what we had and to understand that life does not necessarily come easy. that to me is a valuable lesson i wouldn't trade for the world. shit the moments when we might not have had as much as other kids made me want to succeed in life even harder. knowing my financial situation taught me that you can't always have everything you want.... this is something that everyone comes to learn, right? i learnt that as a 10 yr old kid the time in my life when things got harder. but shit also changed and i just got through college, paying about 16,000$ a semester with no loans. and just recently moms reminded me that i shouldn't be settling- she said, 'im gonna pay for you to go to grad school just let me know when/where and what you plan on studying. this shit is real important to me. going to school and achieving success is one thing mom's taught me especially because i was right there when she was struggling to get here. this made me appreciated harder, my situation. the fact that my life might have been harder than yours financially at certain points does not make me any less of an achiever- it might have made me more.

(im kinda tired of typing... ima just leave it at that.)

>
>had my father not come around and fell in love with my mom and
>decided to adopt me. i probably would have been much like my
>cousins who were raised by single moms. latch key kids, no one
>to show up to support me in school activities, never ate
>dinner as a family, grew up on microwavable dinners and
>hotpockets, doing things i shouldn't have been like skipping
>school, drinking, fucking. i definitely wouldn't have been
>able to see the world as i have been able to, cause my momma
>wouldn't have been to afford it.
>
>i'm not saying that kids that are raised with only one parent,
>do all the fucked up shit kids shouldn't be and stuff. this is
>the case with my cousins tho, and i had i not had my father,
>they are the crowd i definitely would've been hanging out with
>because i would've been left over one of their houses while my
>mom worked or went back to school or just plain old needed a
>fucking break. lol
>
>
>
>and like i said before my father just, just, balanced
>everything out. and also like i said in my toast to him on his
>50th birthday last year- "dad, my momma might have given me
>life, but YOU showed me how to LIVE"
>
>
>
>and with that, i'mma call him just to say, i love u.
>lol
>
>i'm so fucking sappy
>sumbody slap me
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>im truly curious.
>>
>
>
>Not for long... (c) the russian

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 10:15 PM

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164. "in no shape, form or fashion did i attempt to diminish the role"
In response to Reply # 162


  

          

your mother played in your life.

i think it is awesome u have the outlook you have on it.

i simply, did my best, to answer your questions. if u feel that you walked away from your childhood with all the same things, great! i truly feel that is absolutely fantastic! i only wish that every child raised by a single parent felt the same way. in my world, and amongst my friends and colleagues who did not have a 2 parent household, u definitely would stand one-in a million.

so as i was asked, to not assume that my experience in having a 2 parent household is everyone's... i ask u too, to not assume that yours without one is everyone's as well.

i commend your mother.



i did come across this article. i can't get access to the entire thing because i dont have a subscription. i soooo wish i could, right now. here is the excerpt that they have for you to read.

Family Structure and Children's Success: A Comparison of Widowed and Divorced Single-Mother Families
Timothy J. Biblarz1 and Greg Gottainer1
Compared with children raised in single-mother families created by the death of the father, children raised in divorced single-mother families have significantly lower levels of education, occupational status, and happiness in adulthood. Yet divorced single mothers are not significantly different than their widowed counterparts in child rearing, gender role, and family values and in religiosity, health-related behaviors, and other dimensions of lifestyle. However, relative to widowed single mothers, divorced single mothers hold lower occupational positions, are more financially stressed, and have a higher rate of participation in the paid labor force. We speculate that the contrasting positions in the social structure of different types of single-mother families may account for observed differences in child outcomes.

if u're interested in purchasing the article, its 30 bucks and here's the link http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00533.x;jsessionid=a4ZTwqdTIshfFla-NP?cookieSet=1&journalCode=jomf


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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akon
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27010 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 10:34 PM

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166. "RE: in no shape, form or fashion did i attempt to diminish the role"
In response to Reply # 164
Tue Apr-04-06 10:36 PM by akon

  

          

not claiming that my situation is true of everyone.

but if you read these posts there's that assumption that single parenthood is detrimental in some shape or form.
im proof positive that its not. and im sure i can digg up other folks that are the same way. (one of my best friends for one)

just as easily as i can dig up a few folks that grew up with their mother and father, and because this was different from my experience i can come to the conclusionn that two parent house holds are detrimental in some shape and form

as i said earlier... one cannot conclude, in a life affected by so many issues (and this is true of everyone's life regardless) that its their single parenthood that is the issue. that artile is talking about social structure, poverty, level of education blablabla. unless these other factors are controlled for, there's no way (*I feel) that one can conclude that that single parenthood is the problem and not that it is a complexity of that and the other issues raised.

if someone can find an article that studies single and dual families in the same socio-economic conditions and proove that having the father around made these kids go further in life, i'd love to read it. instead i assume we'llsee multiple outcomes- some of which might cancel out (like single parenthood kids doing realy well, others not as well, dual parent kids doing really well, others not as well.) the issue really, is how that child is raised, what values are instilled etc etc.

>
heir
your mother played in your life.
>
>i think it is awesome u have the outlook you have on it.
>
>i simply, did my best, to answer your questions. if u feel
>that you walked away from your childhood with all the same
>things, great! i truly feel that is absolutely fantastic! i
>only wish that every child raised by a single parent felt the
>same way. in my world, and amongst my friends and colleagues
>who did not have a 2 parent household, u definitely would
>stand one-in a million.
>
>so as i was asked, to not assume that my experience in having
>a 2 parent household is everyone's... i ask u too, to not
>assume that yours without one is everyone's as well.
>
>i commend your mother.
>
>
>
>i did come across this article. i can't get access to the
>entire thing because i dont have a subscription. i soooo wish
>i could, right now. here is the excerpt that they have for you
>to read.
>
>Family Structure and Children's Success: A Comparison of
>Widowed and Divorced Single-Mother Families
>Timothy J. Biblarz1 and Greg Gottainer1
>Compared with children raised in single-mother families
>created by the death of the father, children raised in
>divorced single-mother families have significantly lower
>levels of education, occupational status, and happiness in
>adulthood. Yet divorced single mothers are not significantly
>different than their widowed counterparts in child rearing,
>gender role, and family values and in religiosity,
>health-related behaviors, and other dimensions of lifestyle.
>However, relative to widowed single mothers, divorced single
>mothers hold lower occupational positions, are more
>financially stressed, and have a higher rate of participation
>in the paid labor force. We speculate that the contrasting
>positions in the social structure of different types of
>single-mother families may account for observed differences in
>child outcomes.
>
>if u're interested in purchasing the article, its 30 bucks and
>here's the link
>http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00533.x;jsessionid=a4ZTwqdTIshfFla-NP?cookieSet=1&journalCode=jomf
>
>
>Not for long... (c) the russian

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 10:51 PM

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169. "and of course, that is true"
In response to Reply # 166


  

          

but ppl in this post, are primarily speaking from their own experiences. right?

i mean, i'm not really sure what u're getting at

are u saying that, the ppl in here that say not having a father in their life had a negative affect on them are in some way, not accepting responsibility for something and using the no father thing as a scapegoat??

i mean. we can go back and forth all day u know? but individual experiences are just that. individual. u can not say that because you came out okay, and not having a father to u meant nothing, that the next person couldn't in some way been affected by not having one. u can't tell ppl they are wrong for having different feelings than you when it comes to something so personal and with so many varying factors.

it is no secret that in america children who grow up in single parent homes are not as privileged as those that dont.



http://library.adoption.com/single-parent/single-parenting-and-childrens-academic-achievement/article/3341/1.html

Does Single Parenting Negatively Influence Academic Achievement?

At present, research does not provide a definitive answer to this question. In some ways, children in single-parent families are at greater risk than children in other types of families. Even when they have the same academic abilities, children in single-parent families are three times more likely to drop out of high school than children from two-parent families . Because they are the primary and frequently sole source of financial support for the family, single parents have less time to help children with homework, are less likely to use consistent discipline, and have less parental control, and all of these conditions may lead to lower academic achievement . Among children in single-parent families, those from mother-absent households earn lower science grades than children from father-absent homes. No matter which parent is missing, children from single-parent families generally find it more difficult to connect with school .

However, some research suggests that the factor that has the greatest impact on student achievement is not family structure but income . Studies that consider the influence of both family configuration and income find that there is little difference in the academic performance of children from two-parent and single-parent homes when family income is equal .

Family income also influences parent support and involvement in education -- factors related to school achievement. Students who regard their parents as warm, firm, and involved in their education earn better grades than their classmates with uninvolved parents . In these families, parent support acts as a protective factor countering some of the risk factors these children encounter. Although economic pressures often limit or prevent parent involvement in single-parent families, when single parents make the effort to support their children's education, their effort acts as a protective factor.



in this article it speaks about income and how income affects a child's academics... well...

now check this graph out. it is in regards to the washington,dc metro area, but i doubt it will be much different nationwide

http://www.narpac.org/nathoinc.gif

so in ALL the households in this area, single parent households have a lower income- which research can not determine whether it is the single parent or the lower income which plays a part in the children of single parent homes not doing as well in school. either way. the lower income is standard in single parent households.

u can check out the full article here http://www.narpac.org/PERENTS.HTM





Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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akon
Charter member
27010 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:03 PM

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171. "it's the underlying assumption of most of these responses..."
In response to Reply # 169


  

          

but there are numerous posters on here talking about single parent households end up with kids with issues. i could go back and get some quotations but i really need to go to bed.

i have a problem with folks that are going beyond personal experiences and making conclusions about everyone else's experience that does not fit their ideal.

which is why i asked what is this father role that a mother cannot fulfil. because im reading people saying that mother + father = success and not necessarily arguing that the opposite *can be true. (even in a one parent household, btw)

or that if you only had a single parent then you must be *lacking - someone said that you cannot be as successful as you could've been.
if i look at myself? i doubt i would've been more successful.
my particular situation taught me that i have to work hard.
if we'd had two incomes, and my father's would've been more substantial, i probably would've ended up one of those kids that had everything handed to them and never felt the need to work harder (again, that's speculation..... but i can speak for some kids i grew up with). shit being the only kid im already somewhat spoilt. i shudder to think how much worse i would've been.


>but ppl in this post, are primarily speaking from their own
>experiences. right?
>
>i mean, i'm not really sure what u're getting at
>
>are u saying that, the ppl in here that say not having a
>father in their life had a negative affect on them are in some
>way, not accepting responsibility for something and using the
>no father thing as a scapegoat??
>
>i mean. we can go back and forth all day u know? but
>individual experiences are just that. individual. u can not
>say that because you came out okay, and not having a father to
>u meant nothing, that the next person couldn't in some way
>been affected by not having one. u can't tell ppl they are
>wrong for having different feelings than you when it comes to
>something so personal and with so many varying factors.
>
>it is no secret that in america children who grow up in single
>parent homes are not as privileged as those that dont.
>
>
>
>http://library.adoption.com/single-parent/single-parenting-and-childrens-academic-achievement/article/3341/1.html
>
>Does Single Parenting Negatively Influence Academic
>Achievement?
>
>At present, research does not provide a definitive answer to
>this question. In some ways, children in single-parent
>families are at greater risk than children in other types of
>families. Even when they have the same academic abilities,
>children in single-parent families are three times more likely
>to drop out of high school than children from two-parent
>families . Because they are the primary and frequently
>sole source of financial support for the family, single
>parents have less time to help children with homework, are
>less likely to use consistent discipline, and have less
>parental control, and all of these conditions may lead to
>lower academic achievement . Among children in
>single-parent families, those from mother-absent households
>earn lower science grades than children from father-absent
>homes. No matter which parent is missing, children from
>single-parent families generally find it more difficult to
>connect with school .
>
>However, some research suggests that the factor that has the
>greatest impact on student achievement is not family structure
>but income . Studies that consider the
>influence of both family configuration and income find that
>there is little difference in the academic performance of
>children from two-parent and single-parent homes when family
>income is equal .
>
>Family income also influences parent support and involvement
>in education -- factors related to school achievement.
>Students who regard their parents as warm, firm, and involved
>in their education earn better grades than their classmates
>with uninvolved parents . In these families, parent support
>acts as a protective factor countering some of the risk
>factors these children encounter. Although economic pressures
>often limit or prevent parent involvement in single-parent
>families, when single parents make the effort to support their
>children's education, their effort acts as a protective
>factor.
>
>
>
>in this article it speaks about income and how income affects
>a child's academics... well...
>
>now check this graph out. it is in regards to the
>washington,dc metro area, but i doubt it will be much
>different nationwide
>
>http://www.narpac.org/nathoinc.gif
>
>so in ALL the households in this area, single parent
>households have a lower income- which research can not
>determine whether it is the single parent or the lower income
>which plays a part in the children of single parent homes not
>doing as well in school. either way. the lower income is
>standard in single parent households.
>
>u can check out the full article here
>http://www.narpac.org/PERENTS.HTM
>
>
>
>
>
>Not for long... (c) the russian

.
http://perspectivesudans.blogspot.com/
i myself would never want to be god,or even like god.Because god got all these human beings on this planet and i most certainly would not want to be responsible for them, or even have the disgrace that i made them.

  

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sugaStix
Member since Mar 05th 2005
50457 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 11:16 PM

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173. "mmkay, i think we both have an understanding of each other's views"
In response to Reply # 171


  

          

and knows where each other is coming from...

the end of the "argument" as been reached. LOL


gooooooo tooooooo beeeeeeeeeed.

i need to too.

my eyebrows are itching. wtf did i eat today??? shit. feels like they just got waxed, but they didn't. need to. but didnt.


Not for long... (c) the russian

  

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:50 PM

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131. "it's interesting that this post has garnered more female interest"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

than male.

one
k. orr
COGITO ERGO DOLEO

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
18030 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:54 PM

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134. "that's SO expected."
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

no?

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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k_orr
Charter member
80197 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:01 PM

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141. "it is and it isn't"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

If Mash put this up, more dudes would have responded.

one
k. orr

  

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KCPlayer21
Charter member
30076 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:55 PM

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135. "Its a lot of hurt in this post...."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Posts like these make me feel even more grateful that I was able to grow up in a home with both my moms and my father, and that I had a father who was actually a "father", who had a hand in raising me to be the man I am today, and not just someone who brought a check home, kept food on the table, and disciplined me when needed.

People talk about children needing a father figure in the home, but we also need to remember that he be more than someone who just lives at home, brings in a paycheck, and eats the big piece of chicken. And I agree with someone up above, the importance of fatherhood in today's society is totally ignored.....



<---- KCPlayer21 Jr.

  

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HueyShakur
Member since Aug 22nd 2003
18030 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:59 PM

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138. "LOL!"
In response to Reply # 135


  

          

---------
<= "Tomorrow" Romare Bearden

  

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KCPlayer21
Charter member
30076 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 09:02 PM

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143. "..."
In response to Reply # 138


  

          


<---- KCPlayer21 Jr.

  

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blkprinceMD05
Member since Nov 29th 2004
41323 posts
Tue Apr-04-06 08:56 PM

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136. "yes, but i dont blame anyone for that"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and unless u live in society where everyone is single parents and the nuclear family is not promoted as what's "right", u will be aware that ur father or *sumthin* is missing

prototype

stand ur ground, believe in urself,
believe in love, prepare urself for love, remove the negativity from ur life, and accept the love u kno u deserve

  

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Zorasmoon
Member since Aug 30th 2002
37997 posts
Wed Apr-05-06 01:59 AM

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174. "my niece and nephew do not know their parents..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

and I know that it bothers them. For the most part, they are happy, well-adjusted children.

My nephew, in particular, was having some anger and behavioral issues in school last year---fortunately, he has benefitted GREATLY with the help of the child psychologist who specializes in trauma along with more positive encouragement and active parenting from my mother.

My sister died back in 1999, when the children were both toddlers.
She left them (by default)in the care of my mother.

The man who (most likely) fathered my niece doesn't even know that she exists. literally. I say he is most likely the father because my niece bears a striking resemblance to him. I recall him well and he was a decent guy. Crazy about my sister....but he was too reliable, too much of an "herb" for her tastes as I recall her putting it. And when she was alive, she claimed the father was someone else.

1 year later she began seeing...

The man who fathered my nephew. He was serving a 6yr jail sentence
at the time of his birth. Drug bust.
Even if he expressed an interest in meeting his son, my mother wouldn't allow it, for safety reasons. He was, after all, the last person my sister spoke to the night she was killed.

I adore them and plan to relieve my mother of the duty of raising them when they become pre-teens in the next five years.

I know that there will be challenges, lots of questions and thoughts...both spoken and unspoken.

My greatest hope is that the love that they receive today will be their foundation.


  

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Zorasmoon
Member since Aug 30th 2002
37997 posts
Sat Apr-29-06 07:29 PM

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175. "^"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


http://www.43things.com/person/kimluv

  

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jose3030
Charter member
59165 posts
Sat Apr-29-06 07:32 PM

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176. "haha what a re-up"
In response to Reply # 175


          

________________________
http://www.twitter.com/jose3030 - Twitter

  

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