Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Lobby General Discussion General Discussion Archives topic #53237

Subject: "THE DIFFICULT POST ABOUT RACE (anchor requested)." This topic is locked.
Previous topic | Next topic
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Fri Jul-01-05 08:06 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"THE DIFFICULT POST ABOUT RACE (anchor requested)."
Thu Jun-30-05 02:49 AM by DarkStar

  

          

This is something I've been wanting to do for YEARS on this board. That's why it's so long, and it's why I hope that you take a moment to read it all.

I've been drafting and rewriting this post for about six months. Considering the fact that I have few peers in GD, I feel that I have nothing to lose in initiating such a post. I do not feel that this post is stupid, or that it should be deleted by whoever-doesn't-like-me. I do NOT feel that it's a waste of time. I will NOT field questions about my motives. Heckles will go ignored.

The purpose of this post is not to experiment with anyone's viewpoints in hopes of confirming any selfish ideas I may have about the subject at hand. Rather, it is geared towards sparking something that some of us don't really feel equipped to initiate: genuine and unselfish conversation about this race thing between black OKP's and white OKP's. (I have no desire to exclude OKP's of other racial backgrounds from this, but I feel that it's a must that the two LOUDEST and most opinionated groups of people on this board attempt to engage in discussion, ask the questions that no one wants to ask and at least TRY to get some genuine understanding. Because the LOT of us must inhabit this small, cramped country for as long as possible without killing each other--and I'm sure you'll agree that this shit's getting ridiculous.)

I have watched this board deteriorate over the course of the last five years with an intense deal of sadness. Part of that deterioration stems from a great deal of inflammatory, uninformed and negative commentary in regards to American race relations. Because of that, and because of the fact that I am aware of certain OKP's with very outspoken views on race, I humbly ask that this post serve as an autonomous area in which people can ASK QUESTIONS and GET THINGS STRAIGHT about each other. An AUTONOMOUS area, without reprimand or lingering beef or none of that fuckshit. This post will not move into a direction where the choir is being preached to--people need to really speak the fucking TRUTH here.

If the white OKP's want to ask the black OKP's a question they were afraid of asking before, I grant them this space in which to do so. Same for the black OKP's--ask a question. Frame it CLEARLY and CALMLY.
Ask on ANY level--get as deep as you need to get with it. If it generates an uncomfortable feel for you, so be it. TALK YOUR WAY THROUGH IT. DO NOT RUN FROM IT, because you WILL face the question again one day. If possible, DON'T EDIT...JUST POST IT and let the chips fall.

Don't be distracted by hecklers, as they will come. But be mindful that I am requesting that at least one (1) moderator watch this post closely, and in a neutral position. I ask that any of the ignorant and childish commentary that has plagued discussions such as these be met with strict discipline. I ask that the moderator exercise his or her ability to indefinitely ban the IP addresses of those who refuse to comply. Finally, I ask the community to exercise a degree of emotional control, and police your homies in the process. THIS EVENT MUST OCCUR IN A REASONABLY-CIVIL ATMOSPHERE.

There are a number of individuals who I feel should be a part of this post. I don't care about naming names, and I don't care about being CALLED names for trying to initiate this.

This post is generally about US--OKP's in general. It's about the fact that, on both sides of the equation, black people and white people are NOT effectively communicating with each other--the state of this country is PURE evidence of that. As this message board is a microcosm of real ideas and a place of communication, I ASK YOU FOR JUST THAT. I'm not asking you to listen to my radio show--I'm asking you to give this post ONE WEEK. Just one week--that's all. If, within that week, you've talked over something with someone here and reached a REAL conclusion--not another dead end--then the work is getting done. If it doesn't work in the end, fuck it--I tried.

Some of you are okay with existing in divided communities in EVERY manner of your existence. To that, I say, "Do you." But most of you don't want that--most of you WANT to be able to talk to each other. We wake up every day and wish that this race thing wasn't such a goddamn problem, but here it is. And here we are...ranting and ranting, yet the animosity remains. Be the change you want to see.

I am requesting that this post be anchored for one week in General Discussion. Should this go overlooked, I will push and fight for the initation of this experiment again and again, for as long as necessary (again, I DO NOT CARE about what's comfortable. I care about what WORKS). And I am CHALLENGING the most-( and least-) vocal of you--the ones who've kicked up the most dust--to STEP UP AND TALK THIS SHIT OUT WITH THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU. If you lurk, STOP COWERING IN THE GODDAMN SHADOWS and SPEAK UP.

In hopes that I've made a clear case, I leave my plea in the hands of the moderators and daily residents of this board.

Again, I provide a NEUTRAL ZONE. Nothing more. Use the N-word, do whatever it takes.

Kum-ba-ya.

Somebody go first.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top


Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
i cant read that right now.
Jun 30th 2005
1
This is gonna be one of those times where you gotta read it all.
Jun 30th 2005
3
Isn't the idea of all white men being evil kinda stupid?
Jun 30th 2005
2
I think it's absurd.
Jun 30th 2005
4
But there are people who believe it
Jun 30th 2005
5
      What about here?
Jun 30th 2005
7
           It doesn't really affect me
Jun 30th 2005
8
                RE: It doesn't really affect me
Jun 30th 2005
9
                I baited Haj cause that cat is funny
Jun 30th 2005
10
                Thank you for your honesty.
Jun 30th 2005
11
                     You expect four much
Jun 30th 2005
12
                          Yes, it's Okayplayer.
Jun 30th 2005
13
                               This post is a nice attempt
Jun 30th 2005
14
                                    I'm the kum-ba-ya dude, man. What can I say?
Jun 30th 2005
16
                                         Someone's got to do it
Jun 30th 2005
20
                i called him a racist
Jun 30th 2005
33
                     I hate you all...you know that though
Jun 30th 2005
35
                          most "Mexican" sodas...
Jun 30th 2005
38
                          I really doubt it but...
Jun 30th 2005
40
                          Well, if it's all shits and giggles...
Jun 30th 2005
39
                               He said he wants to eat my heart once
Jun 30th 2005
44
                               Ha! Well, it IS shits and giggles.
Jun 30th 2005
46
                                    i dont think that...
Jun 30th 2005
52
                                         You really think I'm a racist...OK then...
Jun 30th 2005
55
                                         dont cry
Jun 30th 2005
60
                                              I won't...there
Jun 30th 2005
64
                                         i was wondering when we had beef
Jun 30th 2005
431
                               i've just accepted the fact that hes an idiot
Jun 30th 2005
48
                                    I've learned that Haj means well
Jun 30th 2005
50
                well...allow me to interject...
Jun 30th 2005
23
                     Well-done. I encourage a reply from an interested party.
Jun 30th 2005
27
                     Race ON HERE has never been an issue to me
Jun 30th 2005
30
                          and again the fact that you can allow race to not be an issue
Jun 30th 2005
37
                               When you "talk" to someone on here,what race do you think they are?
Jun 30th 2005
42
                                    I encourage a reply from the party in question.
Jun 30th 2005
51
                                    It'll come...and it'll probably be long
Jun 30th 2005
53
                                         I definitely hope so.
Jun 30th 2005
58
                                    u know what tho...its not always about what i perceive
Jun 30th 2005
59
                                         It makes sense...I just don't see the need for the awareness on here
Jun 30th 2005
62
                                              well my race is an essential part of my identity
Jun 30th 2005
69
                                                   But how does that affect you on here?
Jun 30th 2005
73
                                                   because my racial identity is a part of who i am...
Jun 30th 2005
75
                                                        Okay...I can get with this answer
Jun 30th 2005
77
                                                             because i said racial issues are important to me...
Jun 30th 2005
79
                                                                  Do you believe all whites are oppressors?
Jun 30th 2005
85
                                                                       yes...i believe so...(theres more in the body)
Jun 30th 2005
87
                                                                            Your honesty is duly noted.
Jun 30th 2005
89
                                                                            That's where I lose you
Jun 30th 2005
91
                                                                            well ill do my best to explain
Jun 30th 2005
98
                                                                            Okay...but do you believe that whites have every advantage?
Jun 30th 2005
103
                                                                            thats ok because i dont feel like u are derailing me in
Jun 30th 2005
120
                                                                            The fact his parents have more money than mine
Jun 30th 2005
125
                                                                            you dont know for sure if his fam has more money than u
Jun 30th 2005
130
                                                                            They do...his parents are doctors
Jun 30th 2005
135
                                                                            what do ur parents do...
Jun 30th 2005
141
                                                                            His parents have dough...he got cash for being an Asian male
Jun 30th 2005
147
                                                                            mmm,,,nah man i still disagree
Jun 30th 2005
150
                                                                            Yes it is
Jun 30th 2005
155
                                                                            there is a limit to what doors of access money can open...
Jun 30th 2005
158
                                                                            I've heard the glass ceiling...
Jun 30th 2005
162
                                                                            Money only helps but so much.
Jun 30th 2005
375
                                                                            Uh, no
Jun 30th 2005
231
                                                                            RE: yes...i believe so...(theres more in the body)
Jun 30th 2005
187
                                                                                 RE: yes...i believe so...(theres more in the body)
Jun 30th 2005
377
                                                   i can identify with this
Jun 30th 2005
88
                                                        Cindylu, no more than two...how do you cope with it here?
Jun 30th 2005
95
                                                        how do i cope?
Jun 30th 2005
99
                                                        I would think that being a California resident,
Jun 30th 2005
97
                                                             IMO it's not a matter of numbers, it's a matter of power
Jun 30th 2005
100
                                                             What stops there being a Chicano power base?
Jun 30th 2005
106
                                                             yeah, you would think
Jun 30th 2005
102
                                                                  What would you say the reason for such under representation is?
Jun 30th 2005
107
                                                                  man this a whole other post
Jun 30th 2005
112
                                                                       Give DarkStar the archive...
Jun 30th 2005
115
                                                                            um, i don't know
Jun 30th 2005
134
                                                                                 In Milwaukee...I found out that they don't sell college
Jun 30th 2005
138
                                                                  but a new day may be coming in l.a.
Jun 30th 2005
291
co-sign
Jun 30th 2005
6
How about not even 30 minutes ago.
Jun 30th 2005
178
*sits outside the checkerboard*
Jun 30th 2005
15
I do hope that you find my reasoning fair for this occasion.
Jun 30th 2005
17
      Doesnt really matter one way or the other.
Jun 30th 2005
18
           Fair enough.
Jun 30th 2005
19
                And on that note:
Jun 30th 2005
32
                     It becomes bad...
Jun 30th 2005
36
                          I didn't say it didn't.
Jun 30th 2005
43
                               All I can do is try.
Jun 30th 2005
45
                                    Just don't get emotionally invested in it.
Jun 30th 2005
49
                                         Part of my life's work is to...
Jun 30th 2005
54
                                              lol
Jun 30th 2005
56
                                                   STOP saying 'moo'...you know what I mean.
Jun 30th 2005
57
okay
Jun 30th 2005
21
I've contacted the moderators.
Jun 30th 2005
22
thats me.
Jun 30th 2005
24
      Have the others come, too.
Jun 30th 2005
25
           but i just said it!
Jun 30th 2005
26
                And it's duly noted.
Jun 30th 2005
28
                     ill probably get reprimanded no matter what.
Jun 30th 2005
29
                          And you do want to be able to communicate what you feel.
Jun 30th 2005
31
                               good post idea
Jun 30th 2005
47
                                    Would anyone like to rationally address Julie's post?
Jun 30th 2005
80
                                         white americans low self esteem?
Jun 30th 2005
101
                                              agreed.
Jun 30th 2005
192
Its most likely because............
Jun 30th 2005
457
good one, when i can open my eye's wider i will
Jun 30th 2005
34
It'll be here.
Jun 30th 2005
41
The mods have my request for an anchor.
Jun 30th 2005
61
if you really want to see who people are...
Jun 30th 2005
63
I didn't realize there was an open hatred of Latinos til that
Jun 30th 2005
66
I choose to go with what seems more prevalent here.
Jun 30th 2005
68
Furthermore, Haj, I encourage YOU...
Jun 30th 2005
78
      what?
Jun 30th 2005
493
agreed
Jun 30th 2005
83
I have my ways of...
Jun 30th 2005
86
      What is this black power fist thing?
Jun 30th 2005
94
           Yes:
Jun 30th 2005
96
                Wow
Jun 30th 2005
108
                     I e-mailed her, and asked for her participation.
Jun 30th 2005
109
                          That's pretty uh...yeah
Jun 30th 2005
110
                               Dude...this is what I do.
Jun 30th 2005
111
                                    Shit Stir?
Jun 30th 2005
116
as I said before no side either blacks or latinos are innocent
Jun 30th 2005
208
Examples?
Jun 30th 2005
530
      There's alot of self-hate with Latinos, tho lol
Jul 02nd 2005
593
I applaud the motivation behind this post.
Jun 30th 2005
65
Do you think there's really an awareness?
Jun 30th 2005
67
RE: Do you think there's really an awareness?
Jun 30th 2005
72
I honestly think that there is more awareness here...
Jun 30th 2005
74
      Awareness doesn't mean people aren't inherently stupid though
Jun 30th 2005
76
           I'll concede that...
Jun 30th 2005
81
                Have you seen examples of this?
Jun 30th 2005
82
                     I'm sure I have, but...
Jun 30th 2005
84
RE: I applaud the motivation behind this post.
Jun 30th 2005
70
And yes, I'm an optimist at heart.
Jun 30th 2005
71
Ok....do the white okp's really feel hidden guilt because
Jun 30th 2005
90
I encourage a rational reply to Ioness' questions.
Jun 30th 2005
92
Nope...my people didn't do shit
Jun 30th 2005
93
I know about the irish
Jun 30th 2005
104
      I feel bad the middle passage happened
Jun 30th 2005
113
           I guess if that's how you feel what I don't understand is
Jun 30th 2005
121
           I've never gotten a job because of my color
Jun 30th 2005
128
                But do you also know that affirmative action works for the minority
Jun 30th 2005
142
                I get followed though
Jun 30th 2005
148
                     true....but i think you get followed cus you look funny.
Jun 30th 2005
167
                          I look funny?
Jun 30th 2005
174
                On a theoretical level, maybe this is true
Jun 30th 2005
                     Which I agreed with
Jun 30th 2005
388
           Oh and no I don't feel you're being callous:
Jun 30th 2005
122
                Every other white person is a fucking idiot then
Jun 30th 2005
131
                     dang doo you wanna beat them up for me too?????
Jun 30th 2005
139
                          If no one takes responsibility for a crime like that,it could happen aga...
Jun 30th 2005
145
RE: Ok....do the white okp's really feel hidden guilt because
Jun 30th 2005
119
RE: Ok....do the white okp's really feel hidden guilt because
Jun 30th 2005
127
      RE: Ok....do the white okp's really feel hidden guilt because
Jun 30th 2005
143
           yeah me either buuuuuuuuuuut
Jun 30th 2005
165
im gonna answer this honestly
Jun 30th 2005
126
I have a question
Jun 30th 2005
188
re: blacks selling blacks into slavery...
Jun 30th 2005
196
the Trans-Saharan Slave Trade predates the Trans-Atlantic-
Jun 30th 2005
435
the way i feel about this issue is complex
Jun 30th 2005
202
how could they have known?
Jun 30th 2005
289
RE: Ok....do the white okp's really feel hidden guilt because
Jun 30th 2005
283
lol...
Jun 30th 2005
327
WOWWW!! That says alot- everyone shd read this!
Jun 30th 2005
340
This is all I ask for.
Jun 30th 2005
351
      That's exactly why everyone should read it.
Jun 30th 2005
353
i clicked your myspace link for demographic information
Jun 30th 2005
346
you shouldn't hang your head in guilt
Jun 30th 2005
357
Bwhahahahahaahaaha
Jun 30th 2005
404
YUP!
Jul 01st 2005
563
this is the funniest reply ever
Jun 30th 2005
460
lol...
Jun 30th 2005
328
when you see someone who had his leg chopped off
Jul 03rd 2005
599
Do teh OkJews realy feel that the holocaust was worse than slavery?
Jun 30th 2005
105
im pretty sure that none of us EVER said that
Jun 30th 2005
114
oh i'm not implying that you did...
Jun 30th 2005
118
      holocaust : less than 10 yrs slavery: hundreds of years
Jun 30th 2005
129
           That's basically how i feel.
Jun 30th 2005
133
                i'll agitate a bit more here...
Jun 30th 2005
253
                     hmmm that's interesting on the jew/race question
Jun 30th 2005
282
Would you say they are equal?
Jun 30th 2005
117
ooo not at all
Jun 30th 2005
123
No, I wouldn't say so.
Jun 30th 2005
124
      most holocaust survivors didnt stay in which ever country
Jun 30th 2005
132
      I'm not the most knowledgable on that i can give you a summary
Jun 30th 2005
137
      I would think the Natives got it a lot worse than anyone in history
Jun 30th 2005
140
           okay i don't know much about that...
Jun 30th 2005
144
                Native American culture is really dead
Jun 30th 2005
149
                PEACE!
Jun 30th 2005
153
                Do you agree with that assessment or not?
Jun 30th 2005
169
                     reperations in the form of education
Jun 30th 2005
172
                          It could in the guise of saving public education
Jun 30th 2005
173
                               well what they're doing in NYC is just seperating the good students
Jun 30th 2005
176
                                    For things to be fixed...we need what would be like a Generation Zero
Jun 30th 2005
181
                                         I thought you were talking about my whole extinction clause.
Jun 30th 2005
184
                                              I was...but that gets boring
Jun 30th 2005
186
                ^^^THIS IS IT RIGHT HERE^^^
Jun 30th 2005
497
                i feel the same way...i feel bad for thinking that way...
Jun 30th 2005
157
for whatever reason, comparing genocides like "which one is worse?&...
Jun 30th 2005
136
      seriously...like oppression olympics...
Jun 30th 2005
146
      yeah I guess, but explore that...there is where you find your truth.
Jun 30th 2005
171
oh boy.
Jun 30th 2005
151
oo but u gotta speak...u cant just say o boy :)
Jun 30th 2005
156
      lol i don't have any questions
Jun 30th 2005
160
           :) just observin then ...
Jun 30th 2005
166
i don't like most 'white' people
Jun 30th 2005
152
i wonder how a post by an Original person from your area would answer.
Jun 30th 2005
154
yeah, well, considering i'm not australian
Jun 30th 2005
164
      i said your area. i was talking about that part of the world
Jun 30th 2005
170
           aborigines aren't really considered polynesian
Jun 30th 2005
177
                what are aborigines considered?
Jun 30th 2005
180
                     they're an anthropological curveball
Jun 30th 2005
185
                     black you mean?
Jun 30th 2005
298
                          No
Jun 30th 2005
433
                               oh ok. black. thanks.
Jun 30th 2005
453
                                    melanesians = blacker than anyone you've evr met
Jun 30th 2005
458
                                         i'm just wondering what you all consider them.
Jun 30th 2005
461
                                              Most of the folks in NZ that think like that....
Jun 30th 2005
529
                                              i've never heard anyone back home use 'black'
Jul 01st 2005
551
                                                   thats why i use the term original but in all reality
Jul 01st 2005
554
                                                        oh, like the pseudoscientific distinctions then
Jul 01st 2005
565
                                                             original people are just "not white"
Jul 01st 2005
566
                                                                  scientifically, original man = negroid
Jul 01st 2005
568
                     oh, and we got one maori who sometimes posts
Jun 30th 2005
212
NZ does pretty well for itself
Jun 30th 2005
512
Gisborne? shit... try the South Island
Jul 01st 2005
553
      GTFOOH....
Jul 01st 2005
583
arent you one of those uuuhhhh.........maugwah like Gizmo..............
Jun 30th 2005
519
to the black okps who say they hate most white people/
Jun 30th 2005
159
it's all peace til you show me otherwise
Jun 30th 2005
161
i know with me, im just waiting for them to say something that
Jun 30th 2005
163
my guard never comes down when dealing with ANYBODY
Jun 30th 2005
168
      Yeah, that's it, it's not "hate" for me...
Jun 30th 2005
175
           bigger than what though??
Jun 30th 2005
179
                I mean, I feel you...
Jun 30th 2005
193
                     I appreciate this post
Jun 30th 2005
277
                     its not about skin color tho
Jun 30th 2005
297
basically.
Jun 30th 2005
262
To me
Jun 30th 2005
393
i don't think ya'll are ready yet, buuuuuut:
Jun 30th 2005
183
That story is why I love Cali girls!
Jun 30th 2005
189
      I was talking about the whole slavery topic and I'm not from Cali!
Jun 30th 2005
190
           Im still kind of confused tho
Jun 30th 2005
191
                I agree with mostly everything you said is purrty cool til u said:
Jun 30th 2005
199
                     It kind of has to do with my pessimistic view on humanity
Jun 30th 2005
204
                          Hmmmm I see...
Jun 30th 2005
206
Why the fuck do Black people have to Be the Biggest Victims?
Jun 30th 2005
194
I'm not sure about others:
Jun 30th 2005
200
Well this isn't really about the people here, but about the people
Jun 30th 2005
203
      1up on this note...even though i advocate for a more tantric lifestyle
Jun 30th 2005
207
Ammendment: Native Americans
Jun 30th 2005
201
I'm sure if you ask a native "american" or another jewish person
Jun 30th 2005
205
There's a real big difference
Jun 30th 2005
544
I agree...
Jun 30th 2005
252
Because we learn more about the holocaust than slavery.....
Jun 30th 2005
307
      It is dumb for anyone to compare.
Jun 30th 2005
362
           RE: It is dumb for anyone to compare.
Jun 30th 2005
443
its too early to read that shit
Jun 30th 2005
195
i applaud your intent Darky...i mean Dark Star.
Jun 30th 2005
197
What is up with the black Culture of anti-intellectualism?
Jun 30th 2005
198
In the U.S. it is because blacks are not the dominant race..
Jun 30th 2005
213
contrary to this its been the whites that have lifted me up the most
Jun 30th 2005
219
      After a point, it had been happening for so long..
Jun 30th 2005
235
RE: What is up with the black Culture of anti-intellectualism?
Jun 30th 2005
430
its a myth....
Jun 30th 2005
452
      it was definitely a myth in my neighborhood.
Jun 30th 2005
464
I'll ask...do blacks/whites often reprimand other racist blacks/whites?
Jun 30th 2005
209
i do... or at least i used to
Jun 30th 2005
211
      yeh man I know what u mean. Latinos give me hell too
Jun 30th 2005
236
      ha!
Jun 30th 2005
241
      This needs to be its own post
Jun 30th 2005
272
Dark man I just want to give u props..imagine if we changed ourselves?
Jun 30th 2005
210
I agree with you one hunned...change real change starts within!
Jun 30th 2005
214
word. on some each one teach one.
Jun 30th 2005
215
not only change within but change those you have direct contact with
Jun 30th 2005
257
Here goes...
Jun 30th 2005
216
most of the white people in this country today
Jun 30th 2005
217
but they are aware of the history
Jun 30th 2005
218
do you cut off your racist black friends?
Jun 30th 2005
220
      RE: do you cut off your racist black friends?
Jun 30th 2005
225
      The black folks I know
Jun 30th 2005
226
           a lot of white people's racism comes from the same place:
Jun 30th 2005
228
           That's why I don't think this race relation shit will ever get better
Jun 30th 2005
234
                well. life is a multi-multi-mutli-faceted thing.
Jul 03rd 2005
601
           but would you cut off black friends that are hateful to non-whites?*
Jun 30th 2005
258
           I cut-off hateful azz folx. period.
Jun 30th 2005
264
           jared diamond
Jun 30th 2005
313
           so do you cut off your black friends with any other kind of
Jul 03rd 2005
600
statistics?
Jun 30th 2005
263
      Really
Jun 30th 2005
265
           the math:
Jun 30th 2005
356
                I should also add:
Jun 30th 2005
358
I agree
Jun 30th 2005
254
So you would disagree with south_jersey's above claim...
Jun 30th 2005
284
      Nah...
Jun 30th 2005
287
           RE: Nah...
Jun 30th 2005
296
                It may not be PC but it's truth
Jun 30th 2005
325
                     I agree with everything you just wrote
Jun 30th 2005
359
I see nothing worthy of comment in this post so far...
Jun 30th 2005
221
which will be the downfall of the post
Jun 30th 2005
223
I know...I think so far the "?s" have been really obvious...
Jun 30th 2005
224
Add something then.
Jun 30th 2005
232
Question for Janey in particular
Jun 30th 2005
222
I mean, imho it was pretty blatant it was a joke
Jun 30th 2005
280
Okay, here's the deal.
Jun 30th 2005
288
      Would anyone like to rationally address Janey's apology?
Jun 30th 2005
299
      there was an apology?
Jun 30th 2005
501
      i haven't seen this post y'all are talking about.
Jun 30th 2005
314
      the post was called something to the effect of
Jun 30th 2005
317
           she said it herself, Tru:
Jun 30th 2005
320
                we're on 2 different pages
Jun 30th 2005
331
                     you just love being offended, don't you?
Jun 30th 2005
332
                          as much as you love defending offensive shit
Jun 30th 2005
335
                               LOL
Jun 30th 2005
338
                               LOL
Jun 30th 2005
339
      your reply is certain to be met with cynicism
Jun 30th 2005
315
      that's fair
Jun 30th 2005
321
      this is my thing:
Jun 30th 2005
390
      key here are phrases like
Jun 30th 2005
400
           okay
Jun 30th 2005
426
           right. so in the post when people were expressing their outrage
Jul 01st 2005
560
      man fuck outta here
Jul 01st 2005
559
fire feels no difficulty cuz she doesn't care what yt people think
Jun 30th 2005
227
but fire(ok) is a racist.
Jun 30th 2005
230
      fire(ok) nor fire is not a fucking racist, kiss my black ass
Jun 30th 2005
233
           why does fire always appear in hood riots?
Jun 30th 2005
246
           i had no idea u were black
Jul 02nd 2005
590
dude, this is the same post you've been making for a year
Jun 30th 2005
229
bitter betty ass...lol. I DARE you to lock it...bet u dont! haha
Jun 30th 2005
237
      yo, if YOU posted some shit from last week asking for an anchor
Jun 30th 2005
238
           up the post from last week then
Jun 30th 2005
239
                rjcc...owned. SMH
Jun 30th 2005
242
                it appears to have been purged
Jun 30th 2005
243
                     u lost..yep
Jun 30th 2005
245
                          lost what?
Jun 30th 2005
248
                               the mighty mod is one of us regular folk today...JUSTICE!
Jun 30th 2005
249
this took u 6 months & u aired nothing out?
Jun 30th 2005
240
^^^the king of complaints
Jun 30th 2005
244
here we go. n/m.
Jun 30th 2005
250
your response is typical of this post
Jun 30th 2005
251
& ya'll niggaz can stop guzzlin' my gook & let dat man speak
Jun 30th 2005
269
      u right though. dont take 6 mos just to write a disclaimer.
Jun 30th 2005
304
           It took time for me to shape this properly, is all.
Jun 30th 2005
360
                you did all that?
Jun 30th 2005
456
                     Yes. I did.
Jun 30th 2005
496
*walks in post, looks around*
Jun 30th 2005
247
.
Jun 30th 2005
255
Ok then, here's my question...
Jun 30th 2005
256
Welp.
Jun 30th 2005
260
smiles* you are a smart chappie...
Jun 30th 2005
273
      Nah, depends on what kind of posts
Jun 30th 2005
278
      yes yes
Jun 30th 2005
424
      haha
Jul 01st 2005
556
ok
Jun 30th 2005
294
good analogy
Jun 30th 2005
agreed... appreciate the response n/m
Jun 30th 2005
387
agreed.
Jul 01st 2005
561
lol
Jun 30th 2005
363
How so?
Jun 30th 2005
371
      due respect, stah
Jun 30th 2005
394
           Duly noted.
Jun 30th 2005
396
           Comm-ma-dee
Jun 30th 2005
407
Stop hitting on me.
Jun 30th 2005
395
predictable response.... n/m
Jun 30th 2005
410
RE: Ok then, here's my question...
Jun 30th 2005
441
janey and hyde don't do this. check your facts man.
Jun 30th 2005
I think he's referring to certain opinions I express
Jun 30th 2005
482
Please...
Jul 01st 2005
552
      you don't really know me,
Jul 01st 2005
575
Never claimed to be an authortiy on black people
Jul 01st 2005
579
Question: How do you feel about affirmative action?
Jun 30th 2005
259
black folk: is it ok to be racist in your household?
Jun 30th 2005
261
Nope
Jun 30th 2005
266
.
Jun 30th 2005
267
I say 'cracker'
Jun 30th 2005
268
is the n-word used much in Britain among Black British?
Jun 30th 2005
271
I've been back and forth to the States
Jun 30th 2005
281
i thought the post was about discourse
Jun 30th 2005
279
      I would say that 'kum-ba-ya' is at the HEART of this entire post...
Jun 30th 2005
295
      Hmmmm
Jun 30th 2005
383
yes & we can be bigots...
Jun 30th 2005
270
basically
Jun 30th 2005
303
naw.
Jun 30th 2005
274
We need political correctness in our homes?
Jun 30th 2005
290
Black Chicagoans who live on the North Side.
Jun 30th 2005
275
i don't really care.
Jun 30th 2005
302
what i think...
Jun 30th 2005
442
Black Chicagoans who live on the North Side.
Jun 30th 2005
276
seriously
Jun 30th 2005
285
      it's more about transportation than anything else.
Jun 30th 2005
292
           yeah, that too.
Jun 30th 2005
300
                RE: yeah, that too.
Jun 30th 2005
309
This post wreaks.... but I'll be honest.
Jun 30th 2005
286
but
Jun 30th 2005
301
      The only time I've lived amongst whites was college.
Jun 30th 2005
319
           RE: The only time I've lived amongst whites was college.
Jun 30th 2005
Good morning.
Jun 30th 2005
293
Most people too busy trying to get by
Jun 30th 2005
306
Oh, I agree.
Jun 30th 2005
310
quit lying.
Jun 30th 2005
311
      We gotta do this somewhere else, seriously.
Jun 30th 2005
318
           do what?
Jun 30th 2005
334
                Will do.
Jun 30th 2005
341
Who among you, then, will address Janey's apology?
Jun 30th 2005
305
Apologies mean nothing... atleast not here
Jun 30th 2005
323
      that's fair too
Jun 30th 2005
330
           Lol... kindness and generosity?
Jun 30th 2005
336
                true, true
Jun 30th 2005
342
                     but you didnt recognize the power of your words with that post
Jun 30th 2005
361
                          I'm agreeing with him. I will always be Janey Who Made That Dumb Ass Po...
Jun 30th 2005
370
                               In further replies...
Jun 30th 2005
376
                               this whole exchange
Jun 30th 2005
391
                               its probably already been said
Jun 30th 2005
398
                                    help me understand
Jun 30th 2005
401
                                         My understanding of this leads me to reply as follows:
Jun 30th 2005
411
                                              okay, that helps
Jun 30th 2005
413
                                                   I certainly hope so, dearest.
Jun 30th 2005
416
I can appreciate what youre trying to do here
Jun 30th 2005
308
That's noted. Thank you.
Jun 30th 2005
312
classism yes - huge factor in race relations
Jun 30th 2005
322
thats not exactly what i'm talking about
Jun 30th 2005
350
      You framed this even BETTER.
Jun 30th 2005
355
Same here.
Jun 30th 2005
352
      you don't think she needs defending
Jul 03rd 2005
602
this post has a wonderful concept.
Jun 30th 2005
316
With this post all I can say is that
Jun 30th 2005
324
I encourage a rational reply to Stayls' post.
Jun 30th 2005
333
Ok I have accepted the fact that everyone is not gonna like
Jun 30th 2005
365
Ok I have accepted the fact that everyone is not gonna like
Jun 30th 2005
366
That sucks about your friend.
Jun 30th 2005
417
it took you six months to write THAT? *smh* n/m
Jun 30th 2005
326
Not so much to write it, but to POST it and frame it the best I could.
Jun 30th 2005
329
      but all it really said was:
Jun 30th 2005
374
           I respect that, and we DO do that here.
Jun 30th 2005
379
what could make anyone think that this was okay.
Jun 30th 2005
337
if you've read that persons posts, you know they're an insane alias
Jun 30th 2005
344
Aren't there general lines though in this forum?
Jun 30th 2005
354
      what kind of an idiot expects a crazy person
Jun 30th 2005
364
           i guess 1 that accepts the responsibility of moderator 4 these boards!
Jun 30th 2005
369
                quite the opposite. mods are needed because
Jun 30th 2005
384
'Ignore that man, Donnie, he's a nihilist.' (c) 'The Big Lebowski'
Jun 30th 2005
345
there's racists/racism on okp?
Jun 30th 2005
343
As I said, I know it's the same-old-same-old.
Jun 30th 2005
347
White folks: Is Affirmative Action really affecting ya'll at all?
Jun 30th 2005
348
it's all about perception
Jun 30th 2005
368
not. at. all.
Jun 30th 2005
372
Those folks get on my nerves too
Jun 30th 2005
470
AA does affect some individuals...
Jun 30th 2005
382
you know what, though
Jun 30th 2005
392
      I see your point
Jun 30th 2005
408
           then I guess the next step
Jun 30th 2005
418
                Yo, bringing up legacy admissions when I argue about AA...
Jun 30th 2005
423
wow
Jun 30th 2005
427
AA could affect me positively...
Jun 30th 2005
428
researchers showed recently that those affected by AA are asians
Jun 30th 2005
505
when i was working at walmart(laugh if you want)
Jun 30th 2005
514
      not really
Jul 01st 2005
547
I have a general comment to the white folks here
Jun 30th 2005
349
Black OKPs: 2 questions
Jun 30th 2005
367
Anyone for this topic?
Jun 30th 2005
380
i think the whole mad black woman deal
Jun 30th 2005
397
i think the whole mad black woman deal
Jun 30th 2005
399
unjustly?
Jun 30th 2005
409
      yes unjustly...
Jun 30th 2005
419
           unlike the "angry black man" term
Jun 30th 2005
421
blackness
Jun 30th 2005
429
RE: blackness
Jun 30th 2005
454
      but the western influence is part of your culture
Jun 30th 2005
467
RE: Black OKPs: 2 questions
Jun 30th 2005
533
I ask this question to those who oppose my union....
Jun 30th 2005
373
I humbly request discourse on this topic, as well.
Jun 30th 2005
381
I assume someone is compensating...
Jun 30th 2005
385
I would say that certainly is the case in some scenarios.
Jun 30th 2005
403
      Obviously, your relationship is your own...
Jun 30th 2005
434
           interesting....
Jun 30th 2005
439
                True dat...
Jun 30th 2005
444
is it your first IR?
Jun 30th 2005
386
not my first...
Jun 30th 2005
406
      ok, but here in the states
Jun 30th 2005
425
           you know....
Jun 30th 2005
432
                word.
Jun 30th 2005
463
In general I don't like it...
Jun 30th 2005
389
we're all entitled to express that which we dislike.
Jun 30th 2005
412
      RE: we're all entitled to express that which we dislike.
Jun 30th 2005
440
Contrary to popular belief...
Jun 30th 2005
402
good question n/m
Jun 30th 2005
414
heard.
Jun 30th 2005
415
      *laughs* @ 'boychild'
Jun 30th 2005
420
ABSOLUTELY AGAINST
Jun 30th 2005
448
in general - not knowing either person specifically -
Jun 30th 2005
451
RE: in general - not knowing either person specifically -
Jun 30th 2005
468
      word....i mean, if university of maryland wins a bowl
Jul 01st 2005
564
           Preach
Jul 01st 2005
576
i just don't like when the people in the relationship live in a fantasy
Jul 01st 2005
557
My inlaws are South Philly Italians
Jun 30th 2005
378
I don't remember that post but
Jun 30th 2005
446
      I think you missed my point
Jul 01st 2005
570
are you really gonna read this?
Jun 30th 2005
405
it's over
Jun 30th 2005
422
this post has been HILARITY!!!!!
Jun 30th 2005
436
Just cause I'm in an honest mood....
Jun 30th 2005
437
no you can't.
Jun 30th 2005
450
      See, wasn't ever going to...
Jun 30th 2005
528
           lol...you already know why.
Jul 01st 2005
572
                That'd make you a minority...
Jul 01st 2005
582
Interracial Dating Question for the Black Folks
Jun 30th 2005
438
dude. i will invest my own resources and time to show you
Jun 30th 2005
445
That's not actually the point
Jun 30th 2005
473
      it seems like you're "playing the odds" in your explanation...
Jun 30th 2005
499
           Preferences shouldn't be considered "limiting" per se
Jun 30th 2005
510
                it depends. what do YOU value more? in my opinion...
Jun 30th 2005
515
                     I value understanding
Jul 01st 2005
546
*sucks air between teeth*
Jun 30th 2005
447
It's a prevalance argument
Jun 30th 2005
494
      i don't have a problem w/IRs and i don't accept
Jul 01st 2005
573
date who you want.
Jun 30th 2005
455
I don't really care to be honest
Jun 30th 2005
462
      but if youre not being honest
Jun 30th 2005
479
           I am being perfectly honest
Jun 30th 2005
487
RE: Interracial Dating Question for the Black Folks
Jun 30th 2005
472
It's not economics or "elitism"
Jun 30th 2005
483
      imo your whole thesis is wacky
Jun 30th 2005
488
      So in your opinion there is no class friction amongst Blacks?
Jun 30th 2005
491
           RE: So in your opinion there is no class friction amongst Blacks?
Jun 30th 2005
509
                I'm not going to argue with you anymore
Jun 30th 2005
543
                     im not taking personal offense to anything
Jul 01st 2005
587
                          But me being a snob isn't the question
Jul 02nd 2005
589
      your argument is invalid
Jun 30th 2005
523
           You should re-read yours
Jun 30th 2005
540
                i think that part is largely regional.
Jul 03rd 2005
597
                     For the most part, yes
Jul 03rd 2005
598
RE: Interracial Dating Question for the Black Folks
Jun 30th 2005
478
when it's done properly?
Jun 30th 2005
485
Makes sense
Jun 30th 2005
489
Considering where you are, it makes alot of sense
Jun 30th 2005
484
I have more Black co-workers out here than Back east.........
Jun 30th 2005
492
Hmm... a mail-order black bride's service might be profitable
Jul 01st 2005
574
But that's like
Jun 30th 2005
500
Yep n/m
Jun 30th 2005
507
RE: you're invisible to black men cuz you're LOST
Jun 30th 2005
517
Not so much a box - as in guaging success
Jun 30th 2005
506
      But that's with anybody
Jun 30th 2005
511
      That's basically my Question
Jun 30th 2005
537
           RE: That's basically my Question
Jun 30th 2005
539
      and her socioeconomic standing had what to do with this?
Jun 30th 2005
518
      You need to relax
Jun 30th 2005
542
      lol. you dated a hippy!
Jun 30th 2005
520
okay lets go...
Jun 30th 2005
535
the washington d.c./atlanta area refutes this off the break
Jul 01st 2005
562
      he's out in seattle... antithesis of DC and atlanta
Jul 01st 2005
571
my catch-all reply.
Jun 30th 2005
449
so you're saying contructs of the mind aren't real?
Jun 30th 2005
459
reading is so very fundamental.
Jun 30th 2005
466
      but race is a constuct...one that people operate off of.
Jun 30th 2005
469
           you just want to hate white ppl (& Black ppl to a certain extent)
Jun 30th 2005
474
           lol. dude...it may SEEM that way, but i have FAR more fundamental
Jun 30th 2005
480
           *golf claps*
Jun 30th 2005
486
           'race is make-believe, racism is not'
Jun 30th 2005
477
                god is make believe. mathematics is make believe...
Jun 30th 2005
481
                     *pats head*
Jun 30th 2005
495
                          move BEYOND talking. your rhetoric about this issue does nothing.
Jun 30th 2005
508
                               Hey, guys?
Jun 30th 2005
513
                                         Okay.
Jun 30th 2005
521
                                              avoiding the issue and questions...
Jun 30th 2005
532
                                                   i have answered the question.
Jun 30th 2005
534
                                                        where have you answered?
Jun 30th 2005
536
this is on point
Jun 30th 2005
471
they're completely inextricable.
Jun 30th 2005
475
i think it was a good start
Jun 30th 2005
476
the genome experiment
Jun 30th 2005
541
RE: the genome experiment
Jul 01st 2005
578
although I agree
Jul 01st 2005
555
I got a couple of questions
Jun 30th 2005
490
RE: I got a couple of questions
Jun 30th 2005
502
RE: I got a couple of questions
Jun 30th 2005
503
i just want to say
Jun 30th 2005
538
*waves*
Jun 30th 2005
498
I mean I just skimmed thru, but I haven't seen anything interesting
Jun 30th 2005
525
Wellll, I mean...
Jun 30th 2005
527
*laughs*
Jul 01st 2005
558
      He hasn't used the words 'Recessives' once!
Jul 01st 2005
569
Damn.
Jun 30th 2005
545
A question to black folks...
Jul 01st 2005
548
only if you suck/are a sucker
Jul 01st 2005
549
Well...that's an emphatic no
Jul 01st 2005
550
      Brandon ain't got nothing to do with this post...
Jul 01st 2005
580
yes b/c liberal white guilt is hilarious to us.
Jul 01st 2005
577
      But I have no guilt
Jul 01st 2005
581
Thoughts of a lurker..
Jul 01st 2005
584
PHEW...okay...here goes.... lol...
Jul 02nd 2005
588
that was on point...
Jul 04th 2005
604
RE: Thoughts of a lurker..
Jul 02nd 2005
594
i'm lovin this thread and i aplaud you but...
Jul 01st 2005
585
i'm an oreo..
Jul 01st 2005
586
hi!
Jul 02nd 2005
595
^
Jul 02nd 2005
591
Hmm...
Jul 02nd 2005
592
i don't think there is a such thing as racial harmony
Jul 02nd 2005
596
I'm gonna go to my stock answer on race:
Jul 04th 2005
603

FREEDOM
Member since Apr 17th 2005
571 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:30 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
1. "i cant read that right now."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Maybe I'll try later.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:31 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
3. "This is gonna be one of those times where you gotta read it all."
In response to Reply # 1


  

          

So, okay--come back later.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:31 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
2. "Isn't the idea of all white men being evil kinda stupid?"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Especially when they used to say that about black folks not even 30 years ago?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:33 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
4. "I think it's absurd."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

I think that the perception is almost like slang, in a way--it holds no immediate significance, but you say it because it seems to be understood by certain people around you.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
5. "But there are people who believe it"
In response to Reply # 4
Thu Jun-30-05 02:34 AM by cantball

  

          

just as I can go walk down the South Side of Milwaukee and ask a random person what they think of black people,and get the same damn answer.

Its completely absurd,but people buy into it for whatever reason.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:38 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
7. "What about here?"
In response to Reply # 5
Thu Jun-30-05 02:39 AM by DarkStar

  

          

On this board? Let's focus it here, where you deal with this everyday.

You see all these posts. How do you feel about them?

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
8. "It doesn't really affect me"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

But there are OKP's who take that shit to heart.

I guess I've been here so long,that I take everything everyone says with a grain of salt.And the only person I've ever really seen have a problem with me,would be Haj...and I baited him.And its mostly joking.

I laugh when I read that shit,but I do see that many,many cats on both sides believe that the race shit is the most important shit in the world.And its comical.

At least once a week,a white/black person will say something that will incite the other group,and lead to attacks.Me being mean to just about everyone,and me not being a retard,keeps me away from that.I think its hilarious and sad at the same time.It always turns into cripple fights.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:47 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
9. "RE: It doesn't really affect me"
In response to Reply # 8


  

          

>But there are OKP's who take that shit to heart.
>
>I guess I've been here so long,that I take everything everyone
>says with a grain of salt.And the only person I've ever really
>seen have a problem with me,would be Haj...and I baited
>him.And its mostly joking.

Why'd you bait him?

>
>I laugh when I read that shit,but I do see that many,many cats
>on both sides believe that the race shit is the most important
>shit in the world.And its comical.

I need them in this post. Because it's life and death for a lot of people--it's not a lighthearted thing.

>
>At least once a week,a white/black person will say something
>that will incite the other group,and lead to attacks.Me being
>mean to just about everyone,and me not being a retard,keeps me
>away from that.I think its hilarious and sad at the same
>time.It always turns into cripple fights.

What do you think people should know about the way race is discussed here on the boards--being that it gives you a small measurement of the public's attitude about it all?

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
10. "I baited Haj cause that cat is funny"
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

People need to get over themselves,and realize that 99% of them would smile in each others faces,if they'd meet in real life.They carry the drama out here,cause there's such a small chance of any interaction with these people.Think of the RE's...what do they get...200 people?And there are like 10,000 real OKP's?I mean,they'll probably never meet.And if they do,I highly doubt they'd bring up race shit from the boards.

The live and die people are the ones who need drama of any sort because they get bored,and need some shit stirred up.They have nothing better to do,really,and wait to jump on people for saying something offensive.We've all done it at one time or another,but these people relish that.

The race posts are started and carried on by such a small number of people,that I don't see it as a problem.And the ones that do,I HIGHLY doubt they'd call people white devils in real life.Its always the same names in those posts.

Basically,it comes down to the fact that if you can't take someone saying something stupid and offensive once in awhile,I mean if board shit REALLY works you up,you can go eat a dick.That goes for everybody who perpetuates that shit.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:57 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
11. "Thank you for your honesty."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I trust that all who read your replies have the capacity to be mindful of your point of view.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
12. "You expect four much"
In response to Reply # 11


  

          

This is Okay Player son,not something smart like Something Awful.


__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:59 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
13. "Yes, it's Okayplayer."
In response to Reply # 12
Thu Jun-30-05 03:01 AM by DarkStar

  

          

Which is EXACTLY why I'm going to do this. I expect a LOT from ALL of you.

It's not much now, but it's not morning yet. If I see no anchor, I will march all over the first page.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
14. "This post is a nice attempt"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

but I don't know what it will do when there's pics from the BET Awards/titties/ass/titties and ass.

Plus,the people who perpetuate the bullshit will never admit it.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:06 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
16. "I'm the kum-ba-ya dude, man. What can I say?"
In response to Reply # 14
Thu Jun-30-05 03:11 AM by DarkStar

  

          

And again, I'm asking for an autonomous zone here. One without reprimand. I'm confident that this can be obtained.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
20. "Someone's got to do it"
In response to Reply # 16


  

          

I think Hulk Hogan would have meade it serious though
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
16194 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
33. "i called him a racist"
In response to Reply # 9


          

_________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
35. "I hate you all...you know that though"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

by the way...is Barrilitos really Mexican soda,or is it kinda like Chop Suey is to Chinese food?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
16194 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
38. "most "Mexican" sodas..."
In response to Reply # 35


          

are made by US companies, so they really arent Mexican...i dont know what you're talking about though, you got a picture?

_________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:32 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
40. "I really doubt it but..."
In response to Reply # 38


  

          

http://www.barrilitos.com/

It tastes like shit though
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:31 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
39. "Well, if it's all shits and giggles..."
In response to Reply # 35


  

          

...then the two of you have an understanding? Maybe?...or am I wrong?

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
44. "He said he wants to eat my heart once"
In response to Reply # 39


  

          

Its serious in these streets
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:39 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
46. "Ha! Well, it IS shits and giggles."
In response to Reply # 44
Thu Jun-30-05 03:40 AM by DarkStar

  

          

That's good.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
16194 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:43 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
52. "i dont think that..."
In response to Reply # 46


          

hes REALLY a racist, as long as the white male okps dont post in race posts its all good, they're all cool until you hear their opinions. (and when i say posts about race, i mean the ones that deal with Latinos)

_________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
55. "You really think I'm a racist...OK then..."
In response to Reply # 52


  

          


__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
16194 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
60. "dont cry"
In response to Reply # 55


          

_________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
64. "I won't...there"
In response to Reply # 60


  

          

*sniffles*
Meanie.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
haji rana pinya
Charter member
53604 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:20 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
431. "i was wondering when we had beef"
In response to Reply # 52


  

          

*********************
www.dumhi.com

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
16194 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
48. "i've just accepted the fact that hes an idiot"
In response to Reply # 39


          

_________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
50. "I've learned that Haj means well"
In response to Reply # 48


  

          

but he really can't grasp this whole "graham cracker" thing
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:14 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
23. "well...allow me to interject..."
In response to Reply # 8


          

the fact that race is not an issue to u personally demonstrates the privilege that you have in this particular realm and the reason most people on here take it to heart i think is because they are constantly being forced to think about race whether they choose or not...just because race is an aspect in which is so deeply rooted in our culture...so yeah

**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:17 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
27. "Well-done. I encourage a reply from an interested party."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
30. "Race ON HERE has never been an issue to me"
In response to Reply # 23
Thu Jun-30-05 03:24 AM by cantball

  

          

in real life,it has.

I live int he countries most segregated city,where 50% of the population is black,and 90% of them live on one side of town.I also went to Milwaukee Public Schools,which are 75% black,yet graduation rates are about 60% for black kids,and upwards of 85& for white kids.I've also been talked down to because I came from that,heard in my classes,from professors,that "those MPS kids just can't handle college",while I don't say anything about it.

I've seen how race works,and by association with friends and classmates,have felt small effects of it.Now,I'm not saying I know what racism feels like,cause at the end of the day,I get school loans easier than ANY kid I went to high school with,but I've seen firsthand how race is used and abused.And it makes me sick.

Imagine being one of being 6 white kids in a 30 kid class,then imagine a college recruiter spending 95% of her time with you and the other 5 white kids,who 3 of which dropped out of high school,while the black kids in class get passed over,even though one of them is graduating from Stanford this year.Like I said,I've seen it in real life,and I KNOW its shit.

But I was talking about the boards.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
37. "and again the fact that you can allow race to not be an issue"
In response to Reply # 30


          

on the boards is an example of PRIVILEGE...i cant turn off the fact that im a black woman at will esp online because the same sterotypes that hold true in the real world filter through on the internet as well...
**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
42. "When you "talk" to someone on here,what race do you think they are?"
In response to Reply # 37


  

          

Before you see a picture,or anything.What is your preconceived notion?

Remember when you first started posting,and critiqued some of my awful poems?What race did you think I was,or did you not think about it?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:42 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
51. "I encourage a reply from the party in question."
In response to Reply # 42


  

          

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:44 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
53. "It'll come...and it'll probably be long"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          


__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:46 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
58. "I definitely hope so."
In response to Reply # 53


  

          

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
59. "u know what tho...its not always about what i perceive"
In response to Reply # 42


          

others race to be...but rather that i am always compelled to stay aware and conscious of my race and the way that i am perceived by others...
i didnt think about ur race when critiquing your poetry that long ago...but like i said im always conscious of the fact that im a black woman...
hope im makin sense
**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:54 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
62. "It makes sense...I just don't see the need for the awareness on here"
In response to Reply # 59


  

          

I guess.

I mean,the fact that you're a black women may never be far from your mind,but does that dictate what and how you post?My feeling is that this is a message board,and because of the faceless nature of it,it becomes a hyper reality of sorts,where it has its own by-laws and such that govern it.When I first posted here,I thought everyone was black.I came to the realization that its probably about 40/40/20 to black/white/others.With sucha far deviation on normal,everyday life,I feel as though this place is its own world so to speak,where nothing should make anyone too angry or sad.

Look at the shit InKast (rightfully) takes.Would he have said that in real life?Would it still be harped on?Or would there have been a fight?It seems to me people just come here to spout whatever.I didn't think people took it too seriously.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
69. "well my race is an essential part of my identity"
In response to Reply # 62


          

much of it is shaped around my heritage...it doesnt define me but its a large part of me...and a lot of that has been out of necessity...as for many people of color...a strong cultural identity is a tool of empowerment for me...reclaiming and owning it for myself rather than some1 placing their own labels on me i wear my shit like a badge...
**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
73. "But how does that affect you on here?"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

Is basically what I'm asking.

In real life,I know the preconceived notions white people may have.I've made them before,just as you have about other people.

What I'm asking,in essence,is how does your racial identity mix with your posting?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:07 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
75. "because my racial identity is a part of who i am..."
In response to Reply # 73


          

its something thats pretty much inherent to me...race relations are important to me...thats y these posts always strike a nerve with me...
i mean im not gonna say i post like a black woman posts because i am not simply defined by only race...
**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:09 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
77. "Okay...I can get with this answer"
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

but does every post where a white person says something fucking stupid lead you to anger?

What do you think about the abuse the Latinos take?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                            
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
79. "because i said racial issues are important to me..."
In response to Reply # 77


          

means that hate expressed toward any group strike a nerve with me...i can defend and speak more on issues concerning african americans because ive lived it i know it...its my experience..i consider myself to be an ally n therefore meaning i cannot simply ignore prejudice toward another group....however, a fault of my own, i realize i have much more of a difficulty to defend/sympathize with whites because as much as people dont like to hear it, whites are oppressors in our society...
*************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
85. "Do you believe all whites are oppressors?"
In response to Reply # 79


  

          

Do you think its a conscious thing?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                    
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
87. "yes...i believe so...(theres more in the body)"
In response to Reply # 85
Thu Jun-30-05 04:34 AM by mizmyteeafrodytee

          

whether its a conscious decision or not...because a system has been built so that whites benefit consistently from these rules and such set in place...
**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:32 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
89. "Your honesty is duly noted."
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
91. "That's where I lose you"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

you say whites are all oppressors,yet what about rich non-whites that do nothing to fix the system.

Yes the system is fucked up...but its not geared to help just whites.Its geared to help those who can afford its help.Take a look around.Most whites are in a bad way themselves,yet you think they are the oppressor?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
98. "well ill do my best to explain"
In response to Reply # 91


          

i understand that there are poor whites...however poor whites will always have the advantage of their race in america...when removed from their environment or social status...blacks and other people will always have their color as an identifier...regardless of their education, class status and such...look at american history where whites and blacks essentially lived in the same conditions...whites were given a lil power by havin a badge handed to em and what happens? whites will always have the advantage of being able to assimilate into the hierarchical structure of our society whereas folks of color have limited accesss...due to color mostly
**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
103. "Okay...but do you believe that whites have every advantage?"
In response to Reply # 98


  

          

I'm honestly not trying to derail you,but use this example...

When I left high school,I had a 3.2 GPA,and a 28 on my ACT.My friend Presa had a 2.2 GPA,and a 21 on his ACT.He got $12,000 in scholarships,while I STILL can't get anything but a loan.And even that is hard to get because of government crackdowns and my parents making too much money.

I believe that this evens the playing field a bit,so to speak,and I actually have no problem with it.But do you believe that something like this will one day stem the tide of white people having every advantage,in your eyes?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
120. "thats ok because i dont feel like u are derailing me in"
In response to Reply # 103


          

your example...u answered ur own question in a way...the whole instance of ur friend receiving aid is acknowledging the legacy and th history of oppression that has renendered people without access to
institutions esp elitist ones like education...money-- is one of those resources which communities of color have been rendered without...
a score on a test and a gpa is a poor poor system to which disregards many other important social factors...it is a poor system to judge a persons potential ability to do well...esp the standardized tests...have u ever thought about the fact standardized tests are biased and how that might affect scores among different race and social classes?
and the whole deal with money... it gains access...

the playing field will never be even unless the system is broken down n rebuilt...but in the meantime it does take acknowlegment from whites to recognize and face their oppressive past and present if they really want to be proactive

**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:12 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
125. "The fact his parents have more money than mine"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

doesn't reek of fighting wrongs in the worst possible way?

Do you believe things in America will ever be equal between the races?Or will we always have one that is "superior" to the others?

Or do you believe,as I do,that when America ends its time running the world,that race here won't matter,and that people will get over themselves.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
130. "you dont know for sure if his fam has more money than u"
In response to Reply # 125


          

yall may have property or other assets they dont...who knows
so ima stay away from that...
but in america, this system was never intended to be equal for all...so no i do not think that things will ever be level...
i also doubt that race will just become eradicated tho its been tried...erasing the race category off the census doesnt make the problem go away...race will always be a part of our society as long as we remain a capitalistic one...its become too intertwined within the system of capitalism...they go hand in hand
the legacy remains

**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
135. "They do...his parents are doctors"
In response to Reply # 130


  

          

And you have to believe race won't always be the deciding factor,otherwise what you want(a level playing field),is useless to try and obtain if you really believe the endgame will never occur.

I know for a fact,that people care MUCH less about race than about money,and that the poorest are also the most racist.If everyone is one day about the same on the wealth chart,race will disappear,and another social construct will take its place.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:29 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
141. "what do ur parents do..."
In response to Reply # 135


          

some doctors dont make nearly as much as u think...my father could make a helluva lot of money in his field howevr he doesnt because he squanders money and hes an entrepreneur...so yeah them being doctors doesnt mean a thing...
i do realize race is not always a deciding factor i never said i did...however i think many people down play the issue of race and trivialize it much more than they should...
and again race plays into capitalism ...to keep and maintain the system so it stays in place...so no it will not disappear is what im sayin






**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
147. "His parents have dough...he got cash for being an Asian male"
In response to Reply # 141


  

          

My Dad was a journalist and my Mom works as a telecom supervisor.

And you're right,race is used to keep the system together,but I don't believe white people are the oppressors...I think the rich are.Oprah has a lot more "rights" in this country than you or I ever will.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:45 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
150. "mmm,,,nah man i still disagree"
In response to Reply # 147
Thu Jun-30-05 05:48 AM by mizmyteeafrodytee

          

no amount of money can guarantee my safety ...
esp. if i were to have loads of cash at this age id be interrogated as to where i got the money rather than being protected...that whole money protects u from the ills of racism argument doent fly

and this issue is still being over simplified...i think its because its late and im sleepy...this is losing its steam...
**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:49 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
155. "Yes it is"
In response to Reply # 150


  

          

but if you have money,you can do what you want.I don't think that's disputable.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
mizmyteeafrodytee
Member since Apr 16th 2003
3572 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
158. "there is a limit to what doors of access money can open..."
In response to Reply # 155
Thu Jun-30-05 06:01 AM by mizmyteeafrodytee

          

really...money does not open all doors for people of color...glass ceiling theory is alive and well...and yeah at this point i dont feel like im being heard so im goin to bed...paz
**************************

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
162. "I've heard the glass ceiling..."
In response to Reply # 158


  

          

But I've also seen that money begets money,and that moneyed people watch their own interests much more than they watch someone's skin color.

That's the sadness of humanity...and the reason Communism never worked.People are fucking greedy,and always will be.Greed supercedes everything.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 01:45 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
375. "Money only helps but so much."
In response to Reply # 162


          

I'm a young black man who came from an upper middle class family, and currently attends law school. Yet I still get pulled over by the cops for bullshit, still get those looks from white passers-by, still get talked down to as if I barely can read, and still dealt w/ overt racism while growing up (getting in fights w/ other whites about being called nigger). I've seen all that first hand, as well as friends of mine in the same boat, and in no way did our bank accounts save us from these experiences. White people still have the white privilege, but now they have to choose to accept it instead of it being thrust upon them.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
sweetjamaican
Member since May 24th 2005
212 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 09:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
231. "Uh, no"
In response to Reply # 155


  

          

As Mos Def so eloquently illustrates in his work of art, "Mr. Nigga", a black person with money is still a nigger.

-------------------------------------
too many negroes are caught up with religion, yall nigguhz should be trying to learn/preserve our history instead of worrying about religion. (c)NYC_upt_JUX

http://myspace.com/chijamaican

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
pascal
Member since Mar 30th 2005
404 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 06:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
187. "RE: yes...i believe so...(theres more in the body)"
In response to Reply # 87


  

          

is someone who benefits from oppression automatically an oppressor?
............................

i'm not good at making decisions...or am i?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
ChuckNeal
Member since Feb 03rd 2004
5458 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 01:46 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
377. "RE: yes...i believe so...(theres more in the body)"
In response to Reply # 187


          

If you're not helping to solve the problem aren't you as much to blame?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                
cindylu
Charter member
10643 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
88. "i can identify with this"
In response to Reply # 69


  

          

about three years ago, i took a class on whiteness and understanding the history of racial formation in the united states. one of the main things that i drew from that class is that whiteness in the u.s. has become the norm and people of other ethnicities/races are exactly that: other. white is normal and we're (black, brown, red, yellow) the other.

so, i've always been conscious of race. i've always been racialized. i've always been the other. yeah, i went to a school with a lot of mexican kids, but my teachers weren't mexican. we didn't read about any chicanos in history class. all our books were by white and (some) black authors. we barely even covered the fact that the city and state we were in once were part of mexico!

like mizzmyteeafrodytee wrote, everything i do, see and hear everything as a chicana through a chicana lens and through chicana ears. i don't have the privilege to stop thinking about race, or to not have people assume i understand the lingua franca.

i'm ranting. so, i'll stop for now.

main point: my race/ethnicity is something i never stop thinking about, being conscious of, and acting on.
_______________________________________________

i ♥ tequila (since 1981)

http://citlalli31.diaryland.com
http://blogging.la
http://flickr.com/photos/cindylu
http://www.myspace.com/cindylu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:36 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
95. "Cindylu, no more than two...how do you cope with it here?"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

On the boards, in particular?

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
cindylu
Charter member
10643 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:41 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
99. "how do i cope?"
In response to Reply # 95


  

          

i don't know. there are a lot of allies on here.

i try to ignore the ones who don't sit well with me.
_______________________________________________

i ♥ tequila (since 1981)

http://citlalli31.diaryland.com
http://blogging.la
http://flickr.com/photos/cindylu
http://www.myspace.com/cindylu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:38 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
97. "I would think that being a California resident,"
In response to Reply # 88


  

          

being a Chicana wouldn't be seen as a problem out there.Are Hispanics really looked upon that shitty out there?Cause I thought being like 50% of the population would dead that.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
enotswhat
Member since Dec 02nd 2002
8846 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
100. "IMO it's not a matter of numbers, it's a matter of power"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

for example she says "i went to a school with a lot of mexican kids, but my teachers weren't mexican. we didn't read about any chicanos in history class. all our books were by white and (some) black authors."

****sig****

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:48 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
106. "What stops there being a Chicano power base?"
In response to Reply # 100


  

          

Haj talked a bit about it once,but I just don't see how there isn't a powerful Hispanic bloc.I would think that with such overwhelming numbers,they could force schools into teaching their own history.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                        
cindylu
Charter member
10643 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:46 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
102. "yeah, you would think"
In response to Reply # 97


  

          

things are still shitty. the whole issue of undocumented immigrants is a really volatile subject out here. there are people who think california is becoming a "third world" cesspool because of all the latino and asian immigrants.

also, the recent fights in schools have really strained black and brown relations in some parts of the city.

i kind of "came of age" in a tough time for race relations in california. we had the uprisings (l.a. riots) in 1992. proposition 187 in 1994 sought to eliminate social services & education for undocumented immigrants. then there was the elimination of affirmative action in 1995/1996.

i live in l.a. we're 40 percent of the population, but still grossly underrepresented in the top ranks.
_______________________________________________

i ♥ tequila (since 1981)

http://citlalli31.diaryland.com
http://blogging.la
http://flickr.com/photos/cindylu
http://www.myspace.com/cindylu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
107. "What would you say the reason for such under representation is?"
In response to Reply # 102


  

          

Money?
General lack of caring?
Lack of education?
Racsim?

__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                
cindylu
Charter member
10643 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:58 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
112. "man this a whole other post"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

i wrote a little about latinos (specifically mexicans) and voting
on my blog: http://citlalli31.diaryland.com/june92005.html

in terms of schooling, it's a whole host of factors for our general low attainment. and we know that with more education comes higher incomes and better political representation.
_______________________________________________

i ♥ tequila (since 1981)

http://citlalli31.diaryland.com
http://blogging.la
http://flickr.com/photos/cindylu
http://www.myspace.com/cindylu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
115. "Give DarkStar the archive..."
In response to Reply # 112


  

          

I don't know what Chicano graduation rates are,but is that the main factor in voting,do you think?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                        
cindylu
Charter member
10643 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
134. "um, i don't know"
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

college and high school grads are more likely to vote

but i think a bigger factor is that there are a lot of mexicans out there who are permanent residents and are eligible to become citizens. for some reason, they won't vote. and the ones who are citizens don't vote for other reasons.

graduation rates differ across the nation. for latinos in california, the figure i've heard most recently:

100 students begin the 9th grade
57 graduate high school
31 of those will go on to higher education (but most will be in a 2-year community college)
14 of those students will earn a college degree after 6 years (both AA and BA)
only 4 of those 100 students will have a Bachelor's degree.
_______________________________________________

i ♥ tequila (since 1981)

http://citlalli31.diaryland.com
http://blogging.la
http://flickr.com/photos/cindylu
http://www.myspace.com/cindylu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:26 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
138. "In Milwaukee...I found out that they don't sell college"
In response to Reply # 134


  

          

In MPS schools,they always say getting a job,or going to a tech. school.While in the suburbs,they stress college and degrees.Could that be a problem for Latinos...that there's a general ignorance about college and what education can bring?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                                            
delsbrothergeorge
Charter member
4413 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 11:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
291. "but a new day may be coming in l.a."
In response to Reply # 102


          

what with antonio as the new mayor, alex padilla as president of city council and fabian nunez as speaker of the assembly.

not that that means the power transition is complete, but chicanos are beginning to run things for real in the golden state.

---i'm here---

"...do what scares you..." -- l. varela

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
tribalhomie
Member since Nov 24th 2004
1211 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
6. "co-sign"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

_____________________________
peace!!

come visit me!!
http://www.myspace.com/tribalhomie

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
RemyMartin
Charter member
92322 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 06:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
178. "How about not even 30 minutes ago."
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

======
FLASH!!

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

theMantheMyth
Member since Mar 11th 2005
39987 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:06 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
15. "*sits outside the checkerboard*"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          


"Also, it's good to see that Common's trying again, even if he does keep slipping into that MTV AIDS commercial flow." ~ Byron Crawford on "The Corner": http://www.byroncrawford.com/2005/04/common_be_album.html

http://www.myspace.com/themanthemyth

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:07 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
17. "I do hope that you find my reasoning fair for this occasion."
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

I think it's necessary.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
theMantheMyth
Member since Mar 11th 2005
39987 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:09 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
18. "Doesnt really matter one way or the other."
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

If I really had somethin to say, I would.

"Also, it's good to see that Common's trying again, even if he does keep slipping into that MTV AIDS commercial flow." ~ Byron Crawford on "The Corner": http://www.byroncrawford.com/2005/04/common_be_album.html

http://www.myspace.com/themanthemyth

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:09 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
19. "Fair enough."
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
theMantheMyth
Member since Mar 11th 2005
39987 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:24 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
32. "And on that note:"
In response to Reply # 19


  

          

OKP in general (and perhaps GD in particular) sometimes serves as a playground for ppl's personalities and imaginations. And I don't judge, I give certain sides of me a little more room to run here than offline. It's whatever.

Yes, racial issues tend to get a little ridiculous and out of proportion around here. But doesn't everything else? Sometimes I sit here and think that if some of these ppl act toward other races like they post, how could they function in society? And since they apparently continue to do so, I have to assume that they manage okay out in the world.

Okp, then, serves the same purpose for them on racial issues as it does in other things. And is that really unhealthy? Probably not. The only negative I can think of is that it might negatively impact others' opinions, but okp shouldn't be in the business of protecting ppl with poor critical thinking skills from themselves.

Recap: Okp serves as a place for ppl to vent their racial frustrations sometimes, and I don't view that as necessarily a bad thing.

"Also, it's good to see that Common's trying again, even if he does keep slipping into that MTV AIDS commercial flow." ~ Byron Crawford on "The Corner": http://www.byroncrawford.com/2005/04/common_be_album.html

http://www.myspace.com/themanthemyth

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:29 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
36. "It becomes bad..."
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

...when you get into something like, say, the Janey affair on Tuesday. So many examples in which I've seen REAL venom--a venom I recognize as a black man and a human being.

I don't discount your point of view, but the lines between therapy and genuine vitriol blur too much here. TOO much.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
theMantheMyth
Member since Mar 11th 2005
39987 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:34 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
43. "I didn't say it didn't."
In response to Reply # 36


  

          

But in practical terms, how would you go about limiting that without some pretty strict board policing? As I said, you can't protect ppl from themselves.

"Also, it's good to see that Common's trying again, even if he does keep slipping into that MTV AIDS commercial flow." ~ Byron Crawford on "The Corner": http://www.byroncrawford.com/2005/04/common_be_album.html

http://www.myspace.com/themanthemyth

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:37 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
45. "All I can do is try."
In response to Reply # 43


  

          

It's why I won't leave these boards...it's why I won't let y'all rest with my Dave Chappelle rants and shit.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
theMantheMyth
Member since Mar 11th 2005
39987 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:42 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
49. "Just don't get emotionally invested in it."
In response to Reply # 45


  

          

Cause what you're doing is roughly equivalent to trying to get cows to stop saying "moo".

"Also, it's good to see that Common's trying again, even if he does keep slipping into that MTV AIDS commercial flow." ~ Byron Crawford on "The Corner": http://www.byroncrawford.com/2005/04/common_be_album.html

http://www.myspace.com/themanthemyth

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:44 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
54. "Part of my life's work is to..."
In response to Reply # 49


  

          

...get as many cows to say "moo" as possible.

I'm a licensed Poetic Terrorist.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
theMantheMyth
Member since Mar 11th 2005
39987 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:45 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
56. "lol"
In response to Reply # 54


  

          


"Also, it's good to see that Common's trying again, even if he does keep slipping into that MTV AIDS commercial flow." ~ Byron Crawford on "The Corner": http://www.byroncrawford.com/2005/04/common_be_album.html

http://www.myspace.com/themanthemyth

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:46 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
57. "STOP saying 'moo'...you know what I mean."
In response to Reply # 56
Thu Jun-30-05 03:46 AM by DarkStar

  

          

:-)

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

south_jersey
Member since Jan 12th 2003
12609 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
21. "okay"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

tableanddreaming: i kind of want to post in that race post
tableanddreaming: ...
cflartey: what do you want to post in that race post?
tableanddreaming: i wanna ask why white americans seem to have such low self esteem
tableanddreaming: compared to black americans
tableanddreaming: that sounds ignorant though
swinger3421: they dont need to assert pride in who they are
tableanddreaming: yeah but its not that
swinger3421: it would seem in bad taste
tableanddreaming: im not talking about who they are
swinger3421: what then?
tableanddreaming: white americans have low self esteem
EyeHateCrackers: assex
tableanddreaming: the ones i met in the south did anyway
tableanddreaming: i spent like substantial amounts of time around the white kids and the black kids
EyeHateCrackers: lol
tableanddreaming: and the white kids were so fucking mopey
tableanddreaming: eh
swinger3421: iono
tableanddreaming: quixotic will probably tear me a new asshole if i post that
tableanddreaming: so im going to refrain
Beh0ldme has entered the room.
tableanddreaming: actually ill probably post that shit anyway

http://lindenwold.blogspot.com/

throwback avy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:14 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
22. "I've contacted the moderators."
In response to Reply # 21


  

          

I've asked them to review my post carefully, and to be mindful of the fact that I don't want any of this "asshole-tearing" here.

We will not talk AT each other here. Should it deteriorate in that direction, I will have this post deleted.

Therefore, I encourage whoever-that-is to post.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
south_jersey
Member since Jan 12th 2003
12609 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
24. "thats me."
In response to Reply # 22


  

          


http://lindenwold.blogspot.com/

throwback avy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:16 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
25. "Have the others come, too."
In response to Reply # 24


  

          

And just...DO IT.

Whatever it is you wanna say.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
south_jersey
Member since Jan 12th 2003
12609 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
26. "but i just said it!"
In response to Reply # 25


  

          

thats what i wanted to say

http://lindenwold.blogspot.com/

throwback avy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:19 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
28. "And it's duly noted."
In response to Reply # 26
Thu Jun-30-05 03:19 AM by DarkStar

  

          

Just wondering if the others will show.

The thing is, I don't want YOU to worry about reprimand in here. You know what I'm saying?

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
south_jersey
Member since Jan 12th 2003
12609 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:20 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
29. "ill probably get reprimanded no matter what."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

i dont really care though

so we're good

http://lindenwold.blogspot.com/

throwback avy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:23 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
31. "And you do want to be able to communicate what you feel."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

And I want that FOR you.

But, yeah...we're good.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
south_jersey
Member since Jan 12th 2003
12609 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:40 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
47. "good post idea"
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

thanks.

http://lindenwold.blogspot.com/

throwback avy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:17 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
80. "Would anyone like to rationally address Julie's post?"
In response to Reply # 47
Thu Jun-30-05 04:17 AM by DarkStar

  

          

Julie can call me Chris, for the record. As that is my name.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                        
TommyWhy
Member since May 21st 2002
6704 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:42 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
101. "white americans low self esteem?"
In response to Reply # 80


  

          

I don't think it's just that white americans have low self-esteem... really anybody might, it's just expressed in different ways imo.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                            
hyde
Charter member
24819 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 07:37 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
192. "agreed."
In response to Reply # 101


  

          

people across the board deal with their feelings in different ways. some have learned to express their unhappiness/lack of self-esteem outright, some seem to mask it with an over-the-top, "i have all the self esteem in the world" personality, and still others deal with it by lashing out at others to take the attention off themselves.

especially as it pertains to youth, i think the perception that julie shared (and i've heard it before, especially in terms of girls' body images) can actually do a real disservice if it's taken as fact.

-k-
q.e.p.d.

una y otra vez

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
PIAKHAN
Member since May 05th 2005
15 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:35 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
457. "Its most likely because............"
In response to Reply # 21


          

As a southerner, showing Self Esteem could be misunderstood as White Supremacy.

So I know alot of white people who have trouble talking about themselves proudly around black people. They get nervous and downplay everything. But alot of the time, I tell them be happy for what you are and who you are.

There is a thin line between pride and arrogance.

Blacks struggle with it too. Some of the "afrocentric" heads take the black thing too far. I'm proud to be black and will say it whenever pertinent. But everything doesnt boil down to race.

Now the true issue, is that race is starting to take a backseat to money. I think nowadays upper-class whites (who were and still are the majority of the class) are seeing minorities as allies. Upper Class blacks can be just as bad as upper class whites when it comes down to the bottom line.

And those who dont have (aka the have-nots) will always get the shaft, just in all honesty, they get all the breaks because of the way society is built.

The middle class (which is where the blacks are predominantly represented {dont care what the statistics say}) inherit all of the problems. Similar to what a poster said earlier, those with parents that work get loans, the rich get scholarships and the poor get subsidized/grant/scholarships.

I remember actually telling my parents to split up so I can be eligible for a scholarship.

So race is a problem but we really need to get a Collective Barganing Agreement going and get some revenue sharing cause thats where the problems lie.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

beguiled
Member since Oct 18th 2004
1395 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:28 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
34. "good one, when i can open my eye's wider i will"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

come back here
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I LOVE





BE GREAT

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:33 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
41. "It'll be here."
In response to Reply # 34


  

          

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:53 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
61. "The mods have my request for an anchor."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

If my request is honored, you will see this post again. For a week. And I hope you won't be reluctant to participate.

I'm going to bed.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
16194 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
63. "if you really want to see who people are..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

and how they feel about race, the posts you have to go into are the ones that deal with Latinos, thats where people show their true colors and you see who they really are.

no one is gonna come out and say "i hate black people" in a post about relations between White and Black people, they're not gonna do that here...but when theres a post about language, immigration, or anything that deals with Latinos, the hate comes out, thats how you learn who people really are here...thats where lots of people that i thought were pretty cool have disappointed me.

'cause they way i see it, if you're not ready to stand up for any type of racism or discrimination, then dont stand up for anything, 'cause you're just worried about yourself and what affects you, and i cant respect that.

_________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:57 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
66. "I didn't realize there was an open hatred of Latinos til that"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

Mexicans Look Slow post.

I took it as a joke without reading through it,and made a post about it that I guess people took serious.Shit,in the Slow post,I fucking said y'all suck at basketball the whole time.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:00 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
68. "I choose to go with what seems more prevalent here."
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

On THIS occasion.

This post doesn't imply that there aren't more things to discuss on all sides ofthe spectrum. But I'll be DAMNED if I don't get BOMBARDED with slur after fucking slur being tossed between...blk and white OKP's. In plain view, every single day.

I'm refuting the possibility of people "never" doing something. I'm issuing a challenge with this post. I want a few people to really grab their cajones like a man...or woman...and SPEAK.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:11 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
78. "Furthermore, Haj, I encourage YOU..."
In response to Reply # 68


  

          

...to open your own Temporary Autonomous Zone and allow people to speak. Rationally and calmly.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
haj20
Member since Nov 21st 2002
16194 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 06:55 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
493. "what?"
In response to Reply # 78


          

_________________________

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
cindylu
Charter member
10643 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:23 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
83. "agreed"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

part of the reason i keep coming back to okp is because i feel a responsibility to balance all the misperceptions of latinos and mexicans (especially!) with some sense.
_______________________________________________

i ♥ tequila (since 1981)

http://citlalli31.diaryland.com
http://blogging.la
http://flickr.com/photos/cindylu
http://www.myspace.com/cindylu

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:26 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
86. "I have my ways of..."
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

...doing the same for my group of interest. Sometimes blatant, sometimes subversive.

Anyhow, the Black Power Fist put me over the top. I felt that it was time to pull this idea back out.

I would venture that we both work towards understanding.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
94. "What is this black power fist thing?"
In response to Reply # 86


  

          

Do you have a link?
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:37 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
96. "Yes:"
In response to Reply # 94
Thu Jun-30-05 04:45 AM by DarkStar

  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=845928&mesg_id=845928&listing_type=search

AND YES, READERS, I'M BRINGING IT UP AGAIN.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:51 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
108. "Wow"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          


__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:54 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
109. "I e-mailed her, and asked for her participation."
In response to Reply # 108
Thu Jun-30-05 04:55 AM by DarkStar

  

          

We'll see.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:55 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
110. "That's pretty uh...yeah"
In response to Reply # 109


  

          


__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:56 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
111. "Dude...this is what I do."
In response to Reply # 110


  

          

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
116. "Shit Stir?"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

lol
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Lord_Vingtune
Member since Jun 26th 2002
29554 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 08:17 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
208. "as I said before no side either blacks or latinos are innocent"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

but I agree with you on that...funny thing is folks like afrikankween and others I thought had issues with latinos actually surprised me in a positive way. Strange how the people you think got your back eventually let the truth show

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Marauder21
Charter member
49516 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 08:37 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
530. "Examples?"
In response to Reply # 63


  

          

Granted, I'm not in GD all the time, but is hate for Latinos really that deep? Where does it come from blacks, whites, Asians? Enlighten me (no sarcasm).

------

12 play and 12 planets are enlighten for all the Aliens to Party and free those on the Sex Planet-maxxx

XBL: trkc21
Twitter: @tyrcasey

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
MANHOODLUM
Charter member
27788 posts
Sat Jul-02-05 10:53 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
593. "There's alot of self-hate with Latinos, tho lol"
In response to Reply # 530


  

          

Puerto Ricans hate Mexicans
Cubans hate everyone
Everyone hates Mexicans

etc...

I never see "Latinos" as one thing...when someone says "Latinos", I think they're from upper-Canada or something. To think so many diff cultures and diff. types of people are from this universal, distinct group is mad vague to me.

Maybe that's just Florida.

Avatar?
E-Boogs and Nayi

MANHOODLUM
Most sig'd okp.
No Aliases.

MANHOODLUM via Twitter
MANHOODLUM@live.com
MANHOODLUM@yahoo.com
Tommy Moran @ Facebook
MANHOODLUM@tmo.blackberry.net

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

TommyWhy
Member since May 21st 2002
6704 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:56 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
65. "I applaud the motivation behind this post."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Although I think compared to a lot of communities OKP is pretty enlightened race-wise (although recenty I've seen a few posts that would seem to prove me wrong) but any discourse moving the conversation forward is valuable imo.

I think most white-OKPs understand that usage of the n-word is unacceptable (we see you Flavariety, so do better)... at least here on the boards. I'd hope this gets carried through into real life as well (I can't imagine that it doesn't for most folks, but you never know).

I guess the most violently contested front that I see around these parts is the inter-racial love/dating/relationship thing. Part of this problem is that it is a complex stew of issues, although the two "purist" extremes are quite simple (overly so, imo)

stick to your own kind

or

you can't help who you fall in love with

in between we've got a bunch of issues, from rapist slavemasters to self-hatred to fetishization/objectification to cultural misunderstandings etc.

As someone who has been involved in IRs more often than not, I have to say that for me these issues don't really exist anymore within my personal interactions, although I would deal with them if needed with someone new. Anyone engaging in an IR should be prepared to confront and conquer these issues lest they contribute to them.

The other (not quite so) big issue I see is separatism vs. integration. While I understand the impulse behind separatism, I think it's a losing battle, however noble. I feel that as a species we need to look to what our future holds while respecting and honoring the past (and learning from its mistakes). To me the ultimate goal should be world citizenship and equality (utopian as it may sound) and I feel we can only get there together.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 03:59 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
67. "Do you think there's really an awareness?"
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=238341&mesg_id=238341&page=
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:04 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
72. "RE: Do you think there's really an awareness?"
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=238341&mesg_id=238341&page=


I hope to see the elements BEHIND this discussed.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
TommyWhy
Member since May 21st 2002
6704 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:06 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
74. "I honestly think that there is more awareness here..."
In response to Reply # 67


  

          

than in the general population, percentage-wise. Of course, that isn't saying much. I'd also say that there's less awareness here than in the circles I keep socially.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
76. "Awareness doesn't mean people aren't inherently stupid though"
In response to Reply # 74


  

          

And the awareness on here is mostly due to people just trying to fit in.Half the fuckers here have said some DUMB ASS SHIT when they thought no one was looking on the boards.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
TommyWhy
Member since May 21st 2002
6704 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
81. "I'll concede that..."
In response to Reply # 76


  

          

most of the dumb-assed comments I see (or that I remember) around here can be attributed to ignorance, but if it persists after correction/information is presented you have to call it what it is.

Nevertheless, the percentages here still beat the real world imo.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:20 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
82. "Have you seen examples of this?"
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

Of the message not being effectively received?

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
TommyWhy
Member since May 21st 2002
6704 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:25 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
84. "I'm sure I have, but..."
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

The problem here is the volume of messages (and usernames) is so high that it's often hard to keep straight who has said what in the past unless they are A-list.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:03 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
70. "RE: I applaud the motivation behind this post."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

>Although I think compared to a lot of communities OKP is
>pretty enlightened race-wise (although recenty I've seen a few
>posts that would seem to prove me wrong) but any discourse
>moving the conversation forward is valuable imo.

Thank you. That's all I want.


>I think most white-OKPs understand that usage of the n-word is
>unacceptable (we see you Flavariety, so do better)... at least
>here on the boards. I'd hope this gets carried through into
>real life as well (I can't imagine that it doesn't for most
>folks, but you never know).

I wanna see if we can do it.

>I guess the most violently contested front that I see around
>these parts is the inter-racial love/dating/relationship
>thing. Part of this problem is that it is a complex stew of
>issues, although the two "purist" extremes are quite simple
>(overly so, imo)
>
>stick to your own kind
>
>or
>
>you can't help who you fall in love with

THIS stuff...I want people to tell the rest of the story. I want people to explain all the "whys" and "why nots" in their head, along the lines of that topic.


>in between we've got a bunch of issues, from rapist
>slavemasters to self-hatred to fetishization/objectification
>to cultural misunderstandings etc.

Let's see how far we can go with it, I say. Bring it all in.

>
>As someone who has been involved in IRs more often than not, I
>have to say that for me these issues don't really exist
>anymore within my personal interactions, although I would deal
>with them if needed with someone new. Anyone engaging in an IR
>should be prepared to confront and conquer these issues lest
>they contribute to them.
>
>The other (not quite so) big issue I see is separatism vs.
>integration. While I understand the impulse behind separatism,
>I think it's a losing battle, however noble. I feel that as a
>species we need to look to what our future holds while
>respecting and honoring the past (and learning from its
>mistakes). To me the ultimate goal should be world citizenship
>and equality (utopian as it may sound) and I feel we can only
>get there together.

All your thoughts are duly noted. Thank you for being honest about these things.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
TommyWhy
Member since May 21st 2002
6704 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
71. "And yes, I'm an optimist at heart."
In response to Reply # 65


  

          

Just in case you were wondering.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
90. "Ok....do the white okp's really feel hidden guilt because"
In response to Reply # 0


          

of what their people have done over the centuries to other peoples?

I mean do you really feel guilty about it? And if so, do you still take advantage of your priviledge?

If you don't feel guilt why not? and I don't believe the whole "it wasn't me" excuse ANNNNNNNND- why don't you feel guilt?

How do you feel when you look around you and realize that there are a people who are severely downpressed with no real hopes of the tides ever changing unless there is a mass holocaust...because of the actions of your foreparents?

there is a whole sect of people who are extinct and a whole other sect where they are so downpressed that there is literally no hope left.

I am apart of the group with no hope left. I try to come to terms to what has happened to my people, but I can't. i choose not to think about it, I can hardly watch any movies or shows that deal with the issue.

I would rather just ignore it and keep on moving, focus more on myself and my own family than my own people. I am but one person and I cannot help everyone on the level that I would like to...that's not anyone's fault it's my decision...

but I'm just wondering...how do you feel when you look around you and realize that I could actually be where I am because of the blood sweat and tears of a whole entire people?

Is it just survival of the fittest/most manipulative? is it god's will? Is it the luck of the draw? what is it?

What do you think makes people look at you and me and think that you are better?

How does that make you feel?

How does it make you feel when others say you have no soul and that you are a heartless and cold people? A reptilian race?
Do you ever look into yourself and wonder if it's true?

hate monger's have long preached that you have no rythm and no heart no sense of family or of the collective divine and physical powers---
do you believe it?

Do you look at other cultures and wonder where is yours? where is your connection with the divine?

uhm yeah I'm done for now.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:35 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
92. "I encourage a rational reply to Ioness' questions."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:35 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
93. "Nope...my people didn't do shit"
In response to Reply # 90
Thu Jun-30-05 04:39 AM by cantball

  

          

My family didn't get here til around 1910 or so,and when they did,they were poor ass Irish immigrants who spoke very little English.

I think we all have enough in our lives to be sorry for and regret,taking on mistakes we had nothing to do with isn't helpful.They should be righed,but they shouldn't be dwelled on other than the fact that the same mistakes need to be stopped from ever happening again.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
104. "I know about the irish"
In response to Reply # 93


          

for and even the scotts too...

as far as feeling guilty that's understandable...do you feel guilty for the priviledge you are given in now time though?

Don't you feel a little remorse doe for just the many bodies that were thrown overboard and fed to the sharks during the middle passage?



  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
113. "I feel bad the middle passage happened"
In response to Reply # 104
Thu Jun-30-05 05:07 AM by cantball

  

          

but maybe because I have no direct connection to it,I feel no remorse over it.And I admit that I've led a priveleged life,but its not like my family made itself off the backs of slavery or holding others down.

My grandfather was a coal mining engineer,and my mother's adoptive parents came from a line of butchers.I may seem callous,but I just don't feel guilty for the middle passage because I didn't perpetrate it.

Its like asking a Japanese kid whose family has been in America for 100 years to feel bad about the Rape of Nanking.

And I will laugh in the face of anyone who says whites aren't human...
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:08 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
121. "I guess if that's how you feel what I don't understand is"
In response to Reply # 113


          

hardworking or not however your family was...you receive certain priviledges from it, so don't you feel guilty taking advantage of that priviledge knowing how many children, women and men had to be tortured so you could get it?

Honestly if I were you I would. like i would decline a job if I knew i was getting it just because of my colour...

But i'm that type of person in general...I want what I get because of my own worth not the worth someone else gave me or the worth my people gave me through their own transgressions.

That's why I ask.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
128. "I've never gotten a job because of my color"
In response to Reply # 121


  

          

And I probably never will.Especially since I plan on going into environmental law.That area is the hardest for a white,middle class male to get to,simply because of the old boys network,and affirmative action.

I have no connections into law,and I have no help from having to come from a second tier law school cause I couldn't afford to go to a Princeton,Yale,or Stanford.

I'm not saying that affirmative action is bad,because I believe that its probably the most important government institution in the last 50 years or so,but I believe it puts me at a disadvantage to a minority candidate.I'd have to be that much better than everyone else.And I will be,so I'm not complaining.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:30 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
142. "But do you also know that affirmative action works for the minority"
In response to Reply # 128


          

meaning, if you were the minority then affirmative action also works for you.


But anywho...what about just the priviledge of not being the one who is feared or who is automatically assumed to be the bad apple...etc...


what about that priviledge of walking into a store and not being followed? Or not being ignored at a car lot? etc....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:39 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
148. "I get followed though"
In response to Reply # 142


  

          

for being a young,college age male.So I'm obviously gonna steal.I get ignored at a car lot because of that same deal.When I bought my car,I had to walk up to the saleman and practically flash a credit report to get a test drive.

I know you're talking about later in life,but for me right now,I don't know what that feels like,so I am in no condition to comment on it.However,I know that if that ever did happen for me,it will be total bullshit,and I want no part of it.I'm no better than the next person...just smarter and better looking.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 06:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
167. "true....but i think you get followed cus you look funny."
In response to Reply # 148


          

but no...i guess, it's the same thing...but it doesn't feel that way.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                                    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 06:11 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
174. "I look funny?"
In response to Reply # 167


  

          

HATE
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10769 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 01:28 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
"On a theoretical level, maybe this is true"


          


>I'm not saying that affirmative action is bad,because I
>believe that its probably the most important government
>institution in the last 50 years or so,but I believe it puts
>me at a disadvantage to a minority candidate.I'd have to be
>that much better than everyone else.And I will be,so I'm not
>complaining.


But realistically, I don't think AA will affect you much if you're already a good candidate for the schools you've applied to.

Despite AA, minorities are still severaly underrepresented in law schools. You're primary competition is going to be other white people and asians

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:01 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
388. "Which I agreed with"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Its just that my main comp already has big advantages over someone like me.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:10 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
122. "Oh and no I don't feel you're being callous:"
In response to Reply # 113


          

every white person that i've asked pretty much says the same thing. *shrugs*

I guess that's why no one tries harder to right those wrongs.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:21 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
131. "Every other white person is a fucking idiot then"
In response to Reply # 122


  

          

My family has no connection to it at all.But for others who do,and don't want to believe it,and brush it off,they're fucking morons.There's no way slavery and Jim Crow just happened.They were perpetuated.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                        
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:27 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
139. "dang doo you wanna beat them up for me too?????"
In response to Reply # 131


          

You sound kinda mad right durr...

i'm just asking...yo I'm cool witchu yo!

we cool ohmie...you my ace ohmie...remember we got like the same fabric of thought and feeling going on...

damn...i'ma get you the peace pipe ohmes....

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                            
cantball
Charter member
46628 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:34 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
145. "If no one takes responsibility for a crime like that,it could happen aga..."
In response to Reply # 139


  

          

These head in the sand white people,whose families directly benefitted from that shit,yet refuse to talk about it,should eat a dick.Its that sort of ignorance and unacountability that leads to the preservation of injustice.

Look at the IRA and the English.The IRA got its head of steam from Bloody Sunday.They retaliated hundreds of times over,using that one event for justification.The British kept cracking down,and the IRA responded.Once the English let up,so did the IRA.That's cause and react.By the same token,if we deny that many in this country reached their social status directly from this,it will be perpetuated again and again,in different forms towards different groups.
__________________________________________________________

http://www.myspace.com/chamilton

http://maulerkoala.blogspot.com/

Bucks Playoffs in the 05-06 season Son


<=======Okay Jawn Month SOOOOOON

"She got that new dick scent..." (c) Me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
TommyWhy
Member since May 21st 2002
6704 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:05 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
119. "RE: Ok....do the white okp's really feel hidden guilt because"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

>of what their people have done over the centuries to other
>peoples?

I have felt guilt about that... still do sometimes. I've been ashamed to be white, although I try not to be anymore because no amount of shame or guilt can undo what my people have done.

>I mean do you really feel guilty about it? And if so, do you
>still take advantage of your priviledge?

I was under the impression that white privelege can't be turned off... I guess I could talk to every individual I deal with and instruct them to treat me as if I was not white, but I don't think it would work.

>How do you feel when you look around you and realize that
>there are a people who are severely downpressed with no real
>hopes of the tides ever changing unless there is a mass
>holocaust...because of the actions of your foreparents?

The future isn't written, I don't share your negative view of it to be honest. See below however.

>there is a whole sect of people who are extinct and a whole
>other sect where they are so downpressed that there is
>literally no hope left.

How do I feel? Honestly, it's too huge to even wrap emotions around. Sad and angry I suppose. Regretful, definitely, but hopeless to do anything about it.

>Is it just survival of the fittest/most manipulative? is it
>god's will? Is it the luck of the draw? what is it?

It's luck of the draw I suppose. If contact between West Africa and Europe had been strongly made a mere 50 years or so earlier (or perhaps later), or if the horse had been native to the Americas, the world would be completely different. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We've seen it in every society from the beginning of time. The story of Adam and Eve eating the apple isn't the story of the birth of mankind, it's the story of the birth of civilization.

>What do you think makes people look at you and me and think
>that you are better?

ignorance.

>How does that make you feel?

sad for them.

>How does it make you feel when others say you have no soul and
>that you are a heartless and cold people? A reptilian race?
>Do you ever look into yourself and wonder if it's true?

That makes me a bit sad sometimes, other times I laugh it off. I know it to be untrue.

>hate monger's have long preached that you have no rythm and no
>heart no sense of family or of the collective divine and
>physical powers---
>do you believe it?

no.

>Do you look at other cultures and wonder where is yours? where
>is your connection with the divine?

no, I've got that stuff covered.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
127. "RE: Ok....do the white okp's really feel hidden guilt because"
In response to Reply # 119


          


>
>I have felt guilt about that... still do sometimes. I've been
>ashamed to be white, although I try not to be anymore because
>no amount of shame or guilt can undo what my people have
>done.

true I like that answer. honest.
>>I mean do you really feel guilty about it? And if so, do you
>>still take advantage of your priviledge?
>
>I was under the impression that white privelege can't be
>turned off... I guess I could talk to every individual I deal
>with and instruct them to treat me as if I was not white, but
>I don't think it would work.


Very true.

>>How do you feel when you look around you and realize that
>>there are a people who are severely downpressed with no real
>>hopes of the tides ever changing unless there is a mass
>>holocaust...because of the actions of your foreparents?
>
>The future isn't written, I don't share your negative view of
>it to be honest. See below however.


Yeah it isn't written, but I don't necessarily see it as a negative view, i see it more as a realist view.

>>there is a whole sect of people who are extinct and a whole
>>other sect where they are so downpressed that there is
>>literally no hope left.
>
>How do I feel? Honestly, it's too huge to even wrap emotions
>around. Sad and angry I suppose. Regretful, definitely, but
>hopeless to do anything about it.

Ok. so now you see why my view is as such.

>>Is it just survival of the fittest/most manipulative? is it
>>god's will? Is it the luck of the draw? what is it?
>
>It's luck of the draw I suppose. If contact between West
>Africa and Europe had been strongly made a mere 50 years or so
>earlier (or perhaps later), or if the horse had been native to
>the Americas, the world would be completely different. Power
>corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We've seen
>it in every society from the beginning of time. The story of
>Adam and Eve eating the apple isn't the story of the birth of
>mankind, it's the story of the birth of civilization.


Actually I do remember reading that it's the story of them finding out about sex. buuuuuuuuut it was the beginning of an era.
>>What do you think makes people look at you and me and think
>>that you are better?
>
>ignorance.

can't argue with that.

>>How does that make you feel?
>
>sad for them.

that either.

>>How does it make you feel when others say you have no soul
>and
>>that you are a heartless and cold people? A reptilian race?
>>Do you ever look into yourself and wonder if it's true?
>
>That makes me a bit sad sometimes, other times I laugh it off.
>I know it to be untrue.

yeah it kinda makes me sad too, i do wonder sometimes if it could really be true when i marvel at the things that happen around me. But i know better. I believe that things happen for a reason although unknown to us at the time, only time can and will tell.


  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
TommyWhy
Member since May 21st 2002
6704 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:33 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
143. "RE: Ok....do the white okp's really feel hidden guilt because"
In response to Reply # 127


  

          

>>The future isn't written, I don't share your negative view
>of
>>it to be honest. See below however.
>
>
>Yeah it isn't written, but I don't necessarily see it as a
>negative view, i see it more as a realist view.
>
>>>there is a whole sect of people who are extinct and a whole
>>>other sect where they are so downpressed that there is
>>>literally no hope left.
>>
>>How do I feel? Honestly, it's too huge to even wrap emotions
>>around. Sad and angry I suppose. Regretful, definitely, but
>>hopeless to do anything about it.
>
>Ok. so now you see why my view is as such.

The reason I pointed out your view as negative is because it cites "no hope for the future". I believe that things can get better (although the current climate does seem bleak).

>> The story of
>>Adam and Eve eating the apple isn't the story of the birth
>of
>>mankind, it's the story of the birth of civilization.
>
>
>Actually I do remember reading that it's the story of them
>finding out about sex. buuuuuuuuut it was the beginning of an
>era.

Definitely don't want to postjack, but it's called the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Sex is an animal impulse... people have had sex since before they were people. The bible dates the earth at about 10,000 years, which is really how old civilization is, roughly. We had been human for probably 40,000 years already at that point.

>>>How does it make you feel when others say you have no soul
>>and
>>>that you are a heartless and cold people? A reptilian race?
>>>Do you ever look into yourself and wonder if it's true?
>>
>>That makes me a bit sad sometimes, other times I laugh it
>off.
>>I know it to be untrue.
>
>yeah it kinda makes me sad too, i do wonder sometimes if it
>could really be true when i marvel at the things that happen
>around me. But i know better. I believe that things happen for
>a reason although unknown to us at the time, only time can and
>will tell.

Well, imo all we can do is live well and extend kindness to others, hopefully share knowledge and increase understanding.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 06:02 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
165. "yeah me either buuuuuuuuuuut"
In response to Reply # 143


          



>Definitely don't want to postjack, but it's called the fruit
>of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Sex is an animal
>impulse... people have had sex since before they were people.
>The bible dates the earth at about 10,000 years, which is
>really how old civilization is, roughly. We had been human for
>probably 40,000 years already at that point.
>

the bible dates our civilization to be about 5600 years old...

the pyramids were built abt 11000 years ago

Most artifacts now date homosapien to be about 40,000 years old

but the first civilization on this planet began about 450,000 years ago and it wasn't human or terra astral.

the tree was called as such but however to find your truth you have to learn the old testament.

Throughout the old testament the term "to know" is used to denote sexual intercourse, mostly between a man and a woman for the purpose of having children. the tale of adam and eve is the story of a crucial step in Man's development: the acquisition of the ability to procreate.

As the serpent predicted, by partaking of the tree of knowing they had become - in sexual matters- "as the deity knowing good and evil."

If this meant only that Man had become to recognize that having sex with animals was uncivilized or evil, why were Adam and eve punished ofr giving up sodomy? the old testament is replete with admonitions against sodomy and it is inconceivable that the learning of a virtue would cause divine wrath.

The "knowing" that Man obtained against the wishes of the deity----or one of the deities------must have been a more profound nature. it was something good for man, but something his creators di dnot wish him to have.

we have to read carefully between the lines of the curse against Eve to grasp the meaning of the event:

"And to the woman He said:
i will greatly multiply thy suffering by the pregnancy
In suffering shalt thou bear children, yet to thy mate shall be thy desire
And the adam named his wife eve for she was the mother of all who lived."

This indeed is the momentuous event transmitted to us in the biblical tale; as long as Adam and eve lacked "knowing" they lived in the Garden of eden without any offspirng. having obtained "knowing" Eve gained the ability and (pain) to become pregnant and bear children. Only after teh couple had acquired this "knowing", Adam knew his wife and she conceived cain.

Perhaps another line would be : Genesis 3:22- And the most high said "behold man has become like us, knowing both good and evil"

Meaning now man is able to procreate like us and as such has the knowledge to now give life and take it away.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
south_jersey
Member since Jan 12th 2003
12609 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
126. "im gonna answer this honestly"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

>of what their people have done over the centuries to other
>peoples?

not at all. i mean it sucks, but i dont feel guilty about it.

>I mean do you really feel guilty about it? And if so, do you
>still take advantage of your priviledge?

i think its impossible NOT to take advantage of white priviledge when youre white.

>If you don't feel guilt why not? and I don't believe the whole
>"it wasn't me" excuse ANNNNNNNND- why don't you feel guilt?

thinking about what white people have done prior to my birth doesnt really strike me as something i need to worry about. my family didn't oppress anyone in america. shit, we basically just got here.

>How do you feel when you look around you and realize that
>there are a people who are severely downpressed with no real
>hopes of the tides ever changing unless there is a mass
>holocaust...because of the actions of your foreparents?

wasnt my foreparents.

>there is a whole sect of people who are extinct and a whole
>other sect where they are so downpressed that there is
>literally no hope left.

>I am apart of the group with no hope left. I try to come to
>terms to what has happened to my people, but I can't. i choose
>not to think about it, I can hardly watch any movies or shows
>that deal with the issue.
>
>I would rather just ignore it and keep on moving, focus more
>on myself and my own family than my own people. I am but one
>person and I cannot help everyone on the level that I would
>like to...that's not anyone's fault it's my decision...
>
>but I'm just wondering...how do you feel when you look around
>you and realize that I could actually be where I am because of
>the blood sweat and tears of a whole entire people?
>
i dont really think about that. ever.

>Is it just survival of the fittest/most manipulative? is it
>god's will? Is it the luck of the draw? what is it?
>
>What do you think makes people look at you and me and think
>that you are better?
>
>How does that make you feel?

i dont like it.
>
>How does it make you feel when others say you have no soul and
>that you are a heartless and cold people? A reptilian race?
>Do you ever look into yourself and wonder if it's true?

no one ever says that to me. i identify with jews more than whites. and i never look at myself and wonder whether thats true. i know its not true.

>hate monger's have long preached that you have no rythm and no
>heart no sense of family or of the collective divine and
>physical powers---
>do you believe it?

no.

>Do you look at other cultures and wonder where is yours? where
>is your connection with the divine?
>

no.

http://lindenwold.blogspot.com/

throwback avy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Iltigo
Charter member
8609 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 07:18 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
188. "I have a question"
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

in regards to the guilt whites shoudl feel. shouldn't blacks also feel guilt since our ancestors sold us tot eh white slave traders in exchange for guns, supplies and other sundries in order to fight their land wars.

i mean true slave catchers did capture people just roaming the woods or in the feild, but a large majority were sold outright by other africans. either a waring tribe that had conquered another and were seeking a profit, or catchers seeking a profit.

shouldn't those people and their ancestors also fell some sort of guilt over the middle passage and chattle slavery.

yes i am black and no i do't hate all white people, just those that directly effect me

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Novembersgift
Member since Oct 19th 2004
16972 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 07:53 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
196. "re: blacks selling blacks into slavery..."
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

It's my understanding that long before white people ever came to Africa there was slavery in its nations. However, most forms of African slavery were much less brutal than the chattel slavery practiced by Europeans. Slaves in Africa gotten by war or other means were still treated with humanity and recognized as being more than just property. Same as with Native American cultures. Slaves and war captives were eventually assimilated into that particular tribe/clan/group.

the brand of slavery practiced by the Europeans on Africans and Native Americans was like no other system of slavery around. Based on the dehumanization of their "property" and reinforced by systematic emotional and physical abuse. Add to that the way racial attitudes became institutionalized and burned into the fabric of countries and cultures all over the world... that's crazy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
Jesse Badgreen
Member since Sep 30th 2003
7816 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:37 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
435. "the Trans-Saharan Slave Trade predates the Trans-Atlantic-"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          

by hundreds of years and is still evidenced by persistant Afro-Indian/Afro-Persian/Afro-Arab communities, though some more persistant than others--like the Siddis in India, but I've read conflicting things about their origins. I do know, whether they descend from merchants, slaves, or enslaved soldiers, that they were apart of an Indian Ocean trade complex that dealt heavily with slaves on a large scale up until the the late 19th century and then less heavily after that, but I don't know much else except that they exist.

the point though, is that there were more than just an "African" brand of slavery and a "European" brand of slavery. it ain't all Almina and Dahomey. the market for African slaves in the Ottoman Empire and on the Swahili coast killed and displaced just as many Africans as the Middle Passage.



spooks like us

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
AFKAP_of_Darkness
Charter member
84244 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 08:04 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
202. "the way i feel about this issue is complex"
In response to Reply # 188


  

          

there was a time i used to feel kinda guilty about it, being an African from the continent – no, i won’t say “guilty,” but sorta embarrassed.

i don’t really feel any personal guilt for it because obviously i was not there, and neither my family nor my people benefited from it

see… i think the whole thing about “blacks actually sold other blacks to the whiteman” is mostly a party line that has been blown up by (primarily conservative) white people in order to help alleviate their own guilt about the situation. i’ve read some commentators suggest that slavery was the fault of Africans… the white man just happened to run into it

but you can’t approach it like “everybody on the African continent sold everybody who ended up in the New World.” first of all, there were certain “tribes” who were known to kidnap people and sell them into slavery (mine was not one of them). these people were fundamentally criminals, and to blame the entire African continent for the acts of a few criminals is no different from when your white co-worker grabs their purse when you’re around just because they’ve been mugged by a black person before

also, it’s not like the African continent did not suffer as a result of the slave trade as well… some people would even argue that those who ended up in the Americas (and survived, of course) were actually the lucky ones, you know?


_____________________

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/287/6/c/the_wire_lineup__huge_download_by_dennisculver-d30s7vl.jpg
The man who thinks at 50 the same way he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life - Muhammed Ali

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
delsbrothergeorge
Charter member
4413 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 11:36 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
289. "how could they have known?"
In response to Reply # 188


          

the institution of slavery had been in place for centuries prior to any ship ever setting sail into the middle passage. my guess is that anyone who participated in it (whether as a captor or as a seller) gave little thought to what happened after a given transaction.

at the outset of what became the international slave trade, how could african businessmen/warlords have known what was about to happen to their "brothers and sisters"? maybe a century or two later they figured it out. but by then they had little to no power to stop it.

i wouldn't place the entire burden of guilt on the conquering europeans, but the fault clearly lies with those who racialized slavery thereby making it the peculiar institution on which this discussion seems to be built.

bottom line: race did not always define slavery. but when it first did, it was the europeans who rewrote the rules.

---i'm here---

"...do what scares you..." -- l. varela

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Whanoon
Charter member
2431 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 11:15 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
283. "RE: Ok....do the white okp's really feel hidden guilt because"
In response to Reply # 90


          

>of what their people have done over the centuries to other
>peoples?

Like other posters, my family, in all the directions i traced, was arriving just after the civil war, and were poor laborers. Were they ignorant and racist? do i blame them entirely? no, similar to the way i don't blame the hutus entir'vely for the occurrence of the Rwandan genocide. But nevertheless we've all had murderers, rapists and theives in our families somewhere down the line.

The emotion I've felt when reading books, watching movies, that sort of indirect experience, isn't guilt, because it doesn't stem from my actions, but it's disgust, horror, anger, sympathy and helplessness.

>I mean do you really feel guilty about it? And if so, do you
>still take advantage of your priviledge?

I'm sure i've "taken advantage" and never been the wiser. most whites have a hard time recognizing that and when this might be going on, because it's normal for us. i mean, to see otherwise, is eye opening
>If you don't feel guilt why not? and I don't believe the whole
>"it wasn't me" excuse ANNNNNNNND- why don't you feel guilt?

okay this is the third time for the same question. i guess i don't feel guilty for being who i am because i know my parents raised me well, with compassion for others.
>How do you feel when you look around you and realize that
>there are a people who are severely downpressed with no real
>hopes of the tides ever changing unless there is a mass
>holocaust...because of the actions of your foreparents?

I think that in 100 years the struggle will be more class based, around limited resources than color based.

i do want to work for positive change while i'm here, but guilt is not my motivation.

Education reform as far as moving away from property tax funded schools, and a more socialized health care system, as well as a sane, sustainable, environmental policy are three things i care about
>there is a whole sect of people who are extinct and a whole
>other sect where they are so downpressed that there is
>literally no hope left.

i feel very cynical about the consumptive nature and narrow world outlook of our society, but i never give up hope

>I am apart of the group with no hope left. I try to come to
>terms to what has happened to my people, but I can't. i choose
>not to think about it, I can hardly watch any movies or shows
>that deal with the issue.

Manifest destiny, and the evil that resulted from religious righteousness, huge profit motive, and willingness to enslave in masse needs to be examined in depth. Not on some "Oh we were stupid and insensitive for enslaving 15-20 million Africans, we're better now though". The world is allowing another genocide, on a much smaller scale, to continue in sudan. We are, as an outside global community, contributing to evil, by allowing it to happen.
>
>I would rather just ignore it and keep on moving, focus more
>on myself and my own family than my own people. I am but one
>person and I cannot help everyone on the level that I would
>like to...that's not anyone's fault it's my decision...

Everyone needs to look out for family and individual needs first. that's why, i believe, when we're allowed just enough, as people under a government, we become easier to control and manipulate

>but I'm just wondering...how do you feel when you look around
>you and realize that I could actually be where I am because of
>the blood sweat and tears of a whole entire people?

We're all living in a country that is as powerful as it is, due in great part to labor at the expense of blacks. no argument
>Is it just survival of the fittest/most manipulative? is it
>god's will? Is it the luck of the draw? what is it?

Read Guns, germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. There are several good reasons, none of them race related, why European countries advanced technologically to the point where they were able to conquer whole continents. Food and animal domestication has a lot to do with it. These are important factors that are often overlooked.

>What do you think makes people look at you and me and think
>that you are better?

stupidity?

>How does that make you feel?

sad, angry, exasperated
>How does it make you feel when others say you have no soul and
>that you are a heartless and cold people? A reptilian race?
>Do you ever look into yourself and wonder if it's true?

I've only read this on OKP. i'd have no choice but to laugh at this. are you actually serious about the last question? My family and I are very close and warm hearted...after we've spent two-three hours sunning on the rocks outside the caucus mountains of course

>hate monger's have long preached that you have no rythm and no
>heart no sense of family or of the collective divine and
>physical powers---
>do you believe it?

Black people in general, are more culturally oriented to dancing, openly and freely I believe. how would you explain away all white musicians though?
>Do you look at other cultures and wonder where is yours? where
>is your connection with the divine?

i'm agnostic, i'll pass
>uhm yeah I'm done for now.
>
>

"Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and it never will."- Frederick Douglass

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
tribalhomie
Member since Nov 24th 2004
1211 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 12:29 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
327. "lol..."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

I don't feel an ounce of guilt. I've NEVER done anyting to anyone of color so why should I? I've been in more racist situations with a person of color being the racist then I have with whites. Now days I bet more people of color hate whites then whites hate people of color. I mean it's sad what happened and it never should of happened but.......get over it. How long ago was it? You can't hold onto something like that forever. I don't hold onto shit that happened to my great grandparents so why should you? That's like me holding a grudge against someone cause their great grandparents were rude to my great grandparents. It's not right. I hate even speaking on this whole race issue cause in my mind there isn't a race issue except for the one people of color bring up. peace!

_____________________________
peace!!

come visit me!!
http://www.myspace.com/tribalhomie

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 12:49 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
340. "WOWWW!! That says alot- everyone shd read this!"
In response to Reply # 327


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
DarkStar
Charter member
20015 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 01:05 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
351. "This is all I ask for."
In response to Reply # 340


  

          

Honesty in an autonomous environment.

This is but one excellent example--whether or not I agree is irrelevant.
I look forward to some well-thought-out replies, minus the Right Hand of Retribution.

________________________________________
...white feather wings.

http://thelastdaysofrussell.bandcamp.com (soon - "Election Day on Monster Island")

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 01:08 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
353. "That's exactly why everyone should read it."
In response to Reply # 351


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
atruhead
Charter member
85025 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 01:00 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
346. "i clicked your myspace link for demographic information"
In response to Reply # 327


  

          

you're 22, in Utah, with an affinity for Bob Marley.

im gathering your world is extremely boxed in, and im sure you'll be on the defensive. but step out of that realm and learn what's going on in the world.

it saddens me to say this, but many blacks havent escaped the mental shackles that extended long past abolition. Until you understand an iota of what it is to be black in this country, you should rethink the "get over it" stance.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Whanoon
Charter member
2431 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 01:16 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
357. "you shouldn't hang your head in guilt"
In response to Reply # 327


          

>I don't feel an ounce of guilt. I've NEVER done anyting to
>anyone of color so why should I? I've been in more racist
>situations with a person of color being the racist then I have
> with whites. Now days I bet more people of color hate whites
>then whites hate people of color. I mean it's sad what
>happened and it never should of happened but.......get over
>it. How long ago was it? You can't hold onto something like
>that forever. I don't hold onto shit that happened to my great
>grandparents so why should you? That's like me holding a
>grudge against someone cause their great grandparents were
>rude to my great grandparents. It's not right. I hate even
>speaking on this whole race issue cause in my mind there isn't
>a race issue except for the one people of color bring up.
>peace!

like Ioness is suggesting, but you should recognize:
1. If you're white, and especially if you're male, you live in a society, that from its beginnings was built and tailored for you (and me). You are privelaged by being white TODAY by racism in the court system, institutions where "character" is judged, such as bank loans, and from the educational system. Slavery may have been 140 yrs ago, but have you asked your parents what they were doing during the civil rights years?

Why would people of color bring up an issue that didn't exist? Ever wonder why they seem to be affected by it, but you, blissfully, are not? Think, perhaps, it wouldn't hurt to listen to a perspective that you'll never experience first hand?

People aren't holding onto shit because they're bored (well for the most part).

Basically, for you and me, it's easy to go through life and think very little about race...that in itself is a privelige. how can you expect people of a generation whose parents didn't have equal rights, FROM THE GOVERNMENT, to be perfectly at ease in today's society?

"Power concedes nothing without demand. It never has and it never will."- Frederick Douglass

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Angelo
Member since Jul 18th 2002
20516 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 02:39 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
404. "Bwhahahahahaahaaha"
In response to Reply # 327


  

          

Show and prove folks, show and prove...


I've got a Bob Marley tune for ya *cues Crazy Baldhead*


My Mantra when dealing with White folks:

When you are playing with a dog, do not ever forget to keep a stick within reach

Akan Proverb

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
keybored
Member since Apr 08th 2003
43228 posts
Fri Jul-01-05 06:24 AM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
563. "YUP!"
In response to Reply # 404


  

          


i'm bout to continue on a tangent, deal...

http://bkbrickhouse.blogspot.com
last updated 062905 the "mama i love you" (boyz ii men) entry

<-- tahir the lil' afro man by afrikankween

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
SoWhat
Charter member
154163 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:40 PM

Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
460. "this is the funniest reply ever"
In response to Reply # 327


  

          

and it's b/c of the screenname and avatar image that accompany it.

well done, player.

fuck you.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
tribalhomie
Member since Nov 24th 2004
1211 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 12:30 PM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
328. "lol..."
In response to Reply # 90


  

          

I don't feel an ounce of guilt. I've NEVER done anyting to anyone of color so why should I? I've been in more racist situations with a person of color being the racist then I have with whites. Now days I bet more people of color hate whites then whites hate people of color. I mean it's sad what happened and it never should of happened but.......get over it. How long ago was it? You can't hold onto something like that forever. I don't hold onto shit that happened to my great grandparents so why should you? That's like me holding a grudge against someone cause their great grandparents were rude to my great grandparents. It's not right. I hate even speaking on this whole race issue cause in my mind there isn't a race issue except for the one people of color bring up. peace!

and I'm just as much human sa anyone of color, and that's an ignorant thing to say. That's the most racist thing I've ever heard!

_____________________________
peace!!

come visit me!!
http://www.myspace.com/tribalhomie

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
Jon
Charter member
18687 posts
Sun Jul-03-05 08:16 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
599. "when you see someone who had his leg chopped off"
In response to Reply # 90
Sun Jul-03-05 08:19 AM by Jon

          

by someone who looked like you, do you feel guilt that you get to live with 2 legs while there are others who have to go through life with one leg because someone sick mofo who didn't like the sound of their vocal chords rendered them crippled?

of course not.

guilt is only appropriate when you did something bad, not when someone else is less fortunate than you. you're not supposed to feel guilty for the cards you were given. that's nonsense.

is jaime fox supposed to feel guilty for having a bigger, nicer choice of women (including white women) than some white guy who gets his face burned off by an angry black man? hell no. jaime fox should thank God for the blessings he's been given.

should i feel guilty because my naturally right-handed cousin has a deformed right arm with no elbow and 1 finger? no, i should praise God for the blessings he's given me, and the extraodinary things that will come of my cousin through his struggles.

you don't feel guilty for situations you didn't create.

EDIT: but i would like to respectuflly ask you why so many people including yourself don't buy the "it wasn't me" reply to the guilt question. is it because people always say it, so it has become cliche to your mind?

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 04:47 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
105. "Do teh OkJews realy feel that the holocaust was worse than slavery?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

    
south_jersey
Member since Jan 12th 2003
12609 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:03 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
114. "im pretty sure that none of us EVER said that"
In response to Reply # 105


  

          

i personally dont think they can be compared
AT ALL

http://lindenwold.blogspot.com/

throwback avy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

        
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:05 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
118. "oh i'm not implying that you did..."
In response to Reply # 114


          

and i don't think it can be compared at all.

i'm asking because of the different convos I've been apart of.

So it's not like do you really feel that way omg I can't believe you just said that.

It's more like, i've heard that said before but do you all or any other jewish person really think that...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

            
south_jersey
Member since Jan 12th 2003
12609 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:19 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy listClick to send message via AOL IM
129. "holocaust : less than 10 yrs slavery: hundreds of years"
In response to Reply # 118


  

          

incomprable.

http://lindenwold.blogspot.com/

throwback avy.

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                
Ioness
Member since Feb 04th 2003
14778 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 05:22 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
133. "That's basically how i feel."
In response to Reply # 129


          

I'm not trying to start nothing...I am trying to get a ball rolling doe...

i'm sure throughout this convo you'll get a feel for what I really think if you haven't already from my other posts...

  

Printer-friendly copy | Top

                    
lfresh
Member since Jun 18th 2002
92693 posts
Thu Jun-30-05 09:50 AM

Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this author