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CyrenYoung
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Mon Apr-13-20 12:44 PM

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"COVID-19 (Novel Coronavirus) Update (3)..."
Mon Apr-13-20 12:50 PM by CyrenYoung

  

          

*Check the archives for the previous thread(s).

Health care workers and officials are relentlessly working to slow the pace of this pandemic, while actively pushing to develop a cure/vaccine.

Meanwhile: Local, state, & government officials continue placing blame, defending egos, and wasting valuable time & resources.


Here's hoping that you and your family are healthy & home.



*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Topic Outline
Subject Author Message Date ID
Fans/Critics of Cuomo, can we get a response? (Link/Videos)
Apr 13th 2020
1
how does shitty NYPD have anything to do with Cuomo?
Apr 13th 2020
9
      they are acting on Cuomo's draconian policies...
Apr 13th 2020
16
           ok i checked those links
Apr 14th 2020
31
                Cuomo's silence is deafening...
Apr 15th 2020
42
                     this is true. fair enough.
Apr 15th 2020
49
"Council to Reopen America" announced. ***jerk-off motion***
Apr 13th 2020
2
how can you reopen something that hasnt been closed?
Apr 13th 2020
4
It's not like you can magically re-open shit either. No one wants to ge...
Apr 13th 2020
5
east and west coast states say nah
Apr 13th 2020
18
Industry scrambles to stop fatal bird flu in South Carolina
Apr 13th 2020
3
osha announces employers dont have to record covid19 cases.
Apr 13th 2020
6
WTF
Apr 13th 2020
7
um don't paint all local govt's with the same brush, please
Apr 13th 2020
8
it says a iot that trumps approval on handling the virus
Apr 13th 2020
11
exactly. lets hope we all KTSE in November
Apr 13th 2020
14
I didn't say that at all...
Apr 13th 2020
17
      RE: I didn't say that at all...
Apr 13th 2020
19
another bonkers press briefing.
Apr 13th 2020
10
he constantly sinks to new lows
Apr 13th 2020
12
My local station cut it off a minute into the propaganda video.
Apr 13th 2020
13
CNN did basically the same thing
Apr 14th 2020
26
Apparently he formally announced his dictatorship tonite ?
Apr 13th 2020
20
      RE: Apparently he formally announced his dictatorship tonite ?
Apr 14th 2020
22
           We're still doing the "checks and balances" thing ?
Apr 14th 2020
23
                RE: We're still doing the "checks and balances" thing ...
Apr 14th 2020
27
The elderly account for almost half of all the Virus-related deaths
Apr 13th 2020
15
Just wanted to post this here too. Really good all-black-women panel on
Apr 14th 2020
21
Fascinating/infuriating stuff - thanks for this. Will watch later.
Apr 14th 2020
24
happy to share!
Apr 15th 2020
45
thank you thank you ..bookmarking this!
Apr 14th 2020
39
      lol np!
Apr 15th 2020
44
thinking more and more about the effects on globalization
Apr 14th 2020
25
This is basic risk management
Apr 14th 2020
28
      This crises has exposed the U.S. in so many ways...
Apr 14th 2020
29
      yeah. all america's sins are laid bare in this.
Apr 14th 2020
34
      yeah if a crisis don't get us to change ...
Apr 15th 2020
48
good to see some regionalism from the CA and NY factions
Apr 14th 2020
30
Anyone else thinking of jumping ship
Apr 14th 2020
32
RE: Anyone else thinking of jumping ship
Apr 14th 2020
33
It's not easy but not impossible
Apr 14th 2020
38
# 41
Apr 15th 2020
43
Correction: America has ALWAYS BEEN a terrible country...
Apr 15th 2020
57
      thank you for putting this so succintly.
Apr 18th 2020
110
i was gonna move to canada on a business or investor visa.
Apr 14th 2020
36
There's provisions under NAFTA/USMCA that allow Americans to work in
Apr 15th 2020
41
      correct me if im wrong but i believe those are heavily geared
Apr 15th 2020
46
      Ya they are, about 1 year with extensions/renewals possible. But
Apr 15th 2020
53
      on this in particular, I think you were over-complicating it:
Apr 15th 2020
55
      this is really helpful...thanks
Apr 15th 2020
52
           np!
Apr 15th 2020
56
Yes, we are planning for Jan/Feb
Apr 14th 2020
37
That's if you're able to get in as the border is closed to Americans.
Apr 14th 2020
40
      I'm aware but Jan/Feb is a long way from now.
Apr 15th 2020
50
unless its Canada, better be ready ot learn a whole new lang and culture
Apr 15th 2020
47
      what's with this discouraging response?
Apr 15th 2020
51
      good luck with the TESL thing
Apr 15th 2020
59
           yeah i'm aware of that too. why?
Apr 18th 2020
111
                Some people make it work
May 25th 2020
320
      That's why we're considering New Zealand.
Apr 15th 2020
68
trump: i will be authorizing governors to reopen their states
Apr 14th 2020
35
Essence Fest back in 2021:
Apr 15th 2020
54
It's time to get the FOCK out of america
Apr 15th 2020
58
the list got me shook for real
Apr 15th 2020
61
Everybody on there has a clear incentive to open everything up yesterday
Apr 15th 2020
63
      RE: Everybody on there has a clear incentive to open everything up yeste...
Apr 15th 2020
64
Face masks are law now in NYS...
Apr 15th 2020
60
Only now?
Apr 15th 2020
67
In slightly brighter news, stimulus is rolling out
Apr 15th 2020
62
RE: In slightly brighter news, stimulus is rolling out
Apr 15th 2020
65
These fucking idiots are going to get everyone killed
Apr 15th 2020
66
like 70% of michiganders approve of whitmers handling of the crisis.
Apr 15th 2020
69
not only Michigan, but it appears to be a firestorm of other states
Apr 16th 2020
81
      I think "firestorm" isn't the right word.
Apr 16th 2020
82
yesterday was our deadliest day by far.
Apr 15th 2020
70
its really stupid
Apr 15th 2020
71
Well, the peak day will be the worst
Apr 15th 2020
72
Using crisis to grab power. Trump threatens to adjourn Congress...
Apr 15th 2020
73
He just cut funding to the WHO.
Apr 15th 2020
74
Vaccine injury compensation is a thing.
Apr 15th 2020
75
Please don't go here...
Apr 16th 2020
79
No, it illustrates the rossover between REAL and FAKE
Apr 16th 2020
80
RE: Please don't go here...
Apr 16th 2020
83
      I’m specifically talking about mentioning autism along
Apr 16th 2020
84
      Can you name a few?
Apr 17th 2020
88
           RE: Can you name a few?
Apr 17th 2020
93
                ...
Apr 18th 2020
101
                I know vaccines can have side effects.
Apr 20th 2020
114
I wish "mass stupidity injury compensation" was a thing.
Apr 22nd 2020
147
Another 5.2 million new unemployment claims ☹️
Apr 16th 2020
76
HOLD UP. The NY zipcode with the most cases is named...
Apr 16th 2020
77
Man, I hope The Beatnuts are okay
Apr 16th 2020
78
we now have more americans dead than hillary had emails (c) rick wilson
Apr 16th 2020
85
this bitch is really mad that states are getting too much credit.
Apr 16th 2020
86
~4600 deaths yesterday. over 2000 more than previous high (day before).
Apr 17th 2020
87
Repugs SNUCK a tax break for the wealthy into stimulus bill
Apr 17th 2020
89
Got a link ?
Apr 17th 2020
90
link
Apr 17th 2020
92
      Repugnantcans being repugnant. Jesus.
Apr 17th 2020
95
      dayum. and ppl out here sweating $1,200
Apr 17th 2020
100
Are you madder at the DNC for this?
Apr 18th 2020
102
Thank you for the concern about my emotional well-being
Apr 19th 2020
112
Or wealthy Dem's stand to benefit from it, hence the non-opposition.
Apr 18th 2020
105
Stimulus bill wouldn't have been passed without it
Apr 20th 2020
116
      C'mon fam
Apr 20th 2020
121
           RE: C'mon fam
Apr 23rd 2020
159
                RE: Repups wanted to not give ANY stimulus money
Apr 23rd 2020
162
                     i got no skin in the game to cop pleas for anyone
May 01st 2020
219
so WWE is essential business in FL.
Apr 17th 2020
91
today Cuomo had time!!! Damn, he killed Trump
Apr 17th 2020
94
? Please elaborate !
Apr 17th 2020
96
      he spent a good 15 minutes shooting down Trump’s BS
Apr 17th 2020
97
           Fuck yea. Hope this is the start of a trend.
Apr 17th 2020
98
Good for Cuomo man, hit em.
Apr 17th 2020
99
Florida man is gonna kill us all. Beaches are packed
Apr 18th 2020
103
RE: Florida man is gonna kill us all. Beaches are packed
Apr 18th 2020
104
      But Floridians are not the ones spreading the virus, though.
Apr 18th 2020
107
           RE: But Floridians are not the ones spreading the virus, though.
Apr 18th 2020
108
           25,000+ cases in Florida......that’s not exactly insignificant
Apr 19th 2020
113
apparently there have been 6000+ deaths in the last 24 hrs.
Apr 18th 2020
106
I don't know about this one. I've been using this...
Apr 18th 2020
109
why aren’t these protesters being arrested? ITWABM/W
Apr 20th 2020
115
Even San Diego has the BULLSHIT
Apr 20th 2020
117
We'd be gone if it was easier to do so
Apr 20th 2020
118
"respect authority" "simple dont break the law"
Apr 20th 2020
119
Georgia folks, you going out and getting a cut on Friday?
Apr 20th 2020
120
I'm old enough to remember when Brian Kemp was the last motherfucker on ...
Apr 20th 2020
122
Lmao!
Apr 21st 2020
124
forget all that! what about Magic City?!
Apr 21st 2020
123
hell the fuck no
Apr 21st 2020
127
I'm not going to a barbershop until there's a vaccine
Apr 21st 2020
129
This is fucking infuriating.
Apr 22nd 2020
145
      Though exceptions and laws are being made, this actually isn't true ...
Apr 22nd 2020
148
           Thanks for the insight. You definitely know more about this than I do.
Apr 22nd 2020
150
My latest conspiracy theory is this whole "Open Up America!" movement...
Apr 21st 2020
125
I don't know that I'd classify that as a 'conspiracy theory'
Apr 21st 2020
126
I don't believe this at all
Apr 21st 2020
128
I dont think it's as much planned
Apr 21st 2020
130
Nah, they've been organizing these things for a little while
Apr 21st 2020
132
Yup!
Apr 21st 2020
133
they openly talk about it in right wing circles.
Apr 21st 2020
135
think about how this affects unemployment filing
Apr 22nd 2020
137
I see it like Romney's "47%" comment.
Apr 22nd 2020
146
      voters 65+ seem to be reacting negatively to all of this.
Apr 22nd 2020
149
           Yeah I saw some stories to that effect this morning.
Apr 22nd 2020
151
Kemp is a dick for reopening but it’s on US not to patronize those pla...
Apr 21st 2020
131
The Real Reason for Gov. Kemp's Reopening of Georgia
Apr 22nd 2020
141
Crazy twitter thread about the "Anti-Mask League" in 1918/1919
Apr 21st 2020
134
we have reached the part where repubs are now accusing nurses
Apr 22nd 2020
136
why wont they show their faces? *hmm emoji*
Apr 22nd 2020
139
theyre officially throwing alex azar under the bus.
Apr 22nd 2020
138
Mayor of Las Vegas offers her citizens up as tribute (vid)
Apr 22nd 2020
140
Let the record show; IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC, Congress is on
Apr 22nd 2020
142
Dude,I know watching KLAN vs Foodies rallies and smoking weed on Vice.co...
Apr 22nd 2020
143
      Weird that you cut the 2nd half of that article
Apr 23rd 2020
157
           The date's IMPORTNAT BECAUSE THE INFORMATION CHANGED BRO
Apr 23rd 2020
161
                vote by proxy scrapped...congress is still in recess
Apr 24th 2020
173
                     The house passed the bill YESTERDAY before you replied
Apr 24th 2020
178
                          they still on recess?
Apr 30th 2020
207
trump threw brian kemp under the bus lol
Apr 22nd 2020
144
trump praised kemp behind the scenes on tuesday
Apr 22nd 2020
153
      How do you know Kemp’s team recorded this? I do believe they leaked it
Apr 22nd 2020
154
           because everyone records trump lol.
Apr 22nd 2020
156
the chyron:
Apr 22nd 2020
152
CNN is kinda wilding right now
Apr 22nd 2020
155
everything is flopping for republicans.
Apr 23rd 2020
158
all job gains created after the great recession are now gone.
Apr 23rd 2020
160
Elizabeth Warren lost her brother.
Apr 23rd 2020
163
damn. and i skimmed a minute knowing what to expect
Apr 23rd 2020
168
Cuomo ethers Cocaine Mitch.
Apr 23rd 2020
164
Fred the Godson passed from COVID
Apr 23rd 2020
165
Damn I remember seeing a couple of weeks ago he had turned for the worse
Apr 23rd 2020
167
Rest in peace, Fred The Godson. :(
Apr 23rd 2020
166
Trump bout to have folks injecting Lysol & cooking themselves in tanning...
Apr 23rd 2020
169
hypothetically...lets say that these people were trying to kill everyone...
Apr 23rd 2020
170
Birx finally fed up:
Apr 23rd 2020
171
If ANYONE you knows supports him then GHOST THEM
Apr 23rd 2020
172
Word
Apr 24th 2020
175
Birx & Fauci just won't be there until the next news cycle.
Apr 24th 2020
174
Truly hate to say it but you might be right.
Apr 24th 2020
176
Trump is a master at this shit
Apr 24th 2020
179
Looks like he's going with option 2.
Apr 24th 2020
182
His statement on bleach
Apr 24th 2020
180
      RE: His statement on bleach
Apr 24th 2020
187
           Yea this was classic. The "me ?!" cracked me up.
Apr 25th 2020
195
Cuomo just dared McConnell to allow states...
Apr 24th 2020
177
Trump RE disinfectants: It was just jokes....I was foolin y'all
Apr 24th 2020
181
wow!
Apr 24th 2020
183
so best case scenario and every benefit of the doubt
Apr 24th 2020
184
      ^ word.
Apr 24th 2020
186
Well, Nebraska to tentatively begin re-opening May 4th.
Apr 24th 2020
185
according to conservatives, trust these two random doctor's from Bakersf...
Apr 25th 2020
188
Fucking creeps.
Apr 25th 2020
190
What are they saying??
Apr 25th 2020
191
      The argument (and it could be true, just way premature),
Apr 25th 2020
192
           i havent watched the video but do they consider
Apr 25th 2020
193
                Don't watch it. It's not worth your time.
Apr 25th 2020
194
                     my nephew posted that dr erickson video in family group chat smh.
Apr 28th 2020
201
Tyler Perry somehow someway has a sorta good idea to film his shows:
Apr 25th 2020
189
And now Scarface is on dialysis.
Apr 26th 2020
196
Good interview with Face and Willie Dee (video)
Apr 27th 2020
197
New Yorker article about New York's response
Apr 27th 2020
198
Does your town have COVID deniers protesting?
Apr 27th 2020
199
These stories about dogs and cats having COVID-19 make me think
Apr 28th 2020
200
if they don't, even more lives could be unnecessarily @ risk...
Apr 28th 2020
202
RE: These stories about dogs and cats having COVID-19 make me think
Apr 29th 2020
204
nurse claims NY is 'murdering' COVID-19 patients by putting them on vent...
Apr 28th 2020
203
Whitehouse release Cov-19 Commerciatve Coins
Apr 29th 2020
205
I don't think that store has any official ties to The White House.
May 01st 2020
216
I fear that this is going to impinge upon our human rights, and lead
Apr 29th 2020
206
^^Super ridiculous example there but I kind of see it and disagree
Apr 30th 2020
208
      RE: ^^Super ridiculous example there but I kind of see it and disagree
Apr 30th 2020
209
           WHAT?????????????????????????????????????
Apr 30th 2020
210
                RE: WHAT?????????????????????????????????????
Apr 30th 2020
211
                     You are super awesome bro
Apr 30th 2020
212
                          RE: You are super awesome bro
Apr 30th 2020
213
                               Super AWESOME!!
Apr 30th 2020
214
blackface obama dance at reopen michigan rally.
May 01st 2020
215
"But they are fighting for our rights!"
May 01st 2020
217
i have no idea why repubs are doubling down
May 01st 2020
218
the only reason they do anything: money
May 01st 2020
220
yup yup.
May 03rd 2020
222
It's becuase IT IS WHO THEY ARE
May 01st 2020
221
this too.
May 03rd 2020
223
they can't do otherwise without burning their rule book
May 03rd 2020
229
      lol @ you showing exactly why in your post
May 03rd 2020
230
we just reported our deadliest day. as states are opening up.
May 03rd 2020
224
It's still going to get worse
May 03rd 2020
226
70+% of people who claimed unemployment havent received payments.
May 03rd 2020
225
Why does the CDC show only 37,000 COVID-19 deaths?
May 03rd 2020
227
This article covers it
May 03rd 2020
228
The clown show continues in San Deigo - wearing a KKK hood for a mask
May 04th 2020
231
sarkkkasm
May 04th 2020
233
Sad but not surprised that this happened in Klantee
May 04th 2020
237
Santee back again - now with swastikas !!!!!
May 09th 2020
262
these videos of protesters all in cops faces
May 04th 2020
232
RE: these videos of protesters all in cops faces
May 04th 2020
235
Trump Administration Models Predict Near Doubling of Daily Death Toll by...
May 04th 2020
234
Basically a 9/11 a day
May 04th 2020
236
How to win a second term? Kill off voters in urban areas
May 05th 2020
238
This is kind of interesting...
May 05th 2020
239
Wisdom from " VIBRATE HEALING with Sarah???"
May 05th 2020
240
      thanks for updating the link
May 05th 2020
244
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
May 05th 2020
241
Dr. Rick Bight's files whistleblower complaint
May 05th 2020
242
Special Counsel determines sufficient grounds to believe retaliation
May 08th 2020
251
are we gonna be to sick to vote?
May 05th 2020
243
white supremacists discussed using virus as a bioweapon
May 06th 2020
245
I've got a 4-count on Plandemic truthers so far as well
May 07th 2020
248
Native American Health Center asked for supplies got body bags (swipe)
May 06th 2020
246
Word around the campfire is America reopens by July 1st...
May 07th 2020
247
the porn industry could teach us how to test & trace (swipe):
May 08th 2020
249
White House refuses to hear any additional stimulus legislation in May
May 08th 2020
250
Stephen Miller's wife caught the hoax
May 08th 2020
252
I don't wish death on anybody
May 08th 2020
253
11 Cases in the Secret Service
May 08th 2020
254
      This means Melania has to have it since she is fucking 2 of them
May 08th 2020
256
           ?????????????????
May 09th 2020
258
Roy of 'Siegfried and Roy' fame dies of COVID-19
May 08th 2020
255
COVID-19 Took Black Lives First. It Didn't Have to. (Swipe)
May 09th 2020
257
This Made me smile (Wuhan Virus aint nuthing to...)
May 09th 2020
259
The right is now gearing up anti-vax narrative
May 09th 2020
260
theres a transnational syndicate carrying this stuff out.
May 11th 2020
263
      The Unbelievable Story Of The Plot Against George Soros (Swipe)
May 11th 2020
265
           great article.
May 11th 2020
266
Fed Government turned down company's offer to make 7 mil N95 masks (link...
May 09th 2020
261
why isnt the press more curious about *why* this is happening?
May 11th 2020
264
Trump answers the tough questions (link)
May 11th 2020
267
nvm.
May 11th 2020
268
This needs a real source
May 11th 2020
269
      yeah it was a joke.
May 11th 2020
270
           You playin' with my emotions
May 11th 2020
271
Live Coverage of Senate Committe Hearing with Fauci Testimony
May 12th 2020
272
LA to keep stay at home order in place through July
May 12th 2020
273
we're getting used to no smog and traffic
May 12th 2020
275
Slow, rolling open unique to LA County. Nothing has changed.
May 12th 2020
276
Cal State Univ system (23 campuses) plan to cancel fall in person classe...
May 12th 2020
274
The Four Men Responsible For America’s COVID-19 Test Disaster (Swipe)
May 13th 2020
277
Trump and task force pushing CDC to reduce # of deaths counted (link)
May 13th 2020
278
Whistleblower warns US of 'darkest winter in modern history' in testimon...
May 13th 2020
279
this and the cdc calculation shit
May 13th 2020
280
Right wingers swear this is all in an attempt to beat Trump
May 14th 2020
281
.
May 14th 2020
282
RE: .
May 15th 2020
283
      the typa context the media needs to do a much better job reporting
May 15th 2020
285
i still cant believe we live in country dumb enough
May 15th 2020
284
87,000 U.S. dead as of 5/15/2020
May 15th 2020
286
fam this shit looks like a real life haunted house or nightmare sequence
May 15th 2020
287
and of course trump amplifies it.
May 15th 2020
288
it's horrifying on its face. the president saying journalism isn't essen...
May 15th 2020
289
Anyone who thinks Trump cant win is fooling themselves.
May 16th 2020
290
      RE: Anyone who thinks Trump cant win is fooling themselves.
May 16th 2020
291
           Not sure what to believe but these white folks are scary af
May 17th 2020
293
Gov. Kemp apologizes after chart mistakenly shows downward trend (link)
May 17th 2020
292
This motherfucker seriously put the days in the wrong order.
May 17th 2020
294
Promising early results from vaccine trial
May 18th 2020
295
Donald Trump is taking an experimental drug - Fox is shook
May 18th 2020
296
He is lying through his hydroxy-ass
May 18th 2020
297
I can't wait for the no I didn't say that
May 19th 2020
298
welp... Pops (age 80) tested positive yesterday, stuck in hospital Covid...
May 19th 2020
299
have (had?) covid
May 19th 2020
300
300 and 301, I hope you both recover
May 20th 2020
302
RE: 300 and 301, I hope you both recover
May 22nd 2020
309
Damn, man. Congrats on making it through - stay strong
May 20th 2020
303
      i appreciate it
May 22nd 2020
310
Fla. COVID-19 Data Chief responsible for dashboard fired
May 19th 2020
301
Rebekah Jones to make public statement Thursday ( swipeupdate)
May 25th 2020
318
Lockdown Delays Cost at Least 36,000 Lives, Data Show (Swipe)
May 21st 2020
304
We'll be able to do it better next time
May 21st 2020
305
DC we are starting to reopen next Friday. Y'all ready???
May 21st 2020
306
My 12-year-old nephew has experienced covid toe since May 1
May 22nd 2020
307
RE: My 12-year-old nephew has experienced covid toe since May 1
May 22nd 2020
308
In good news, Cameroon Pastor claiming to heal Corona dies of Corona
May 22nd 2020
311
Coronavirus Does Not Spread Easily on Surfaces, C.D.C. Says
May 23rd 2020
312
So all that to say that it does and has spread via surfaces lol
May 23rd 2020
314
      But from a risk management standpoint it's not as dangerous as it could ...
May 25th 2020
319
Front page of NYT
May 23rd 2020
313
Remembering the nearly 100,000 Lives Lost (NY Times Interactive Link)
May 24th 2020
315
Microdroplets Suspending in Air (Video)
May 24th 2020
316
i think this memorial day weekend is gonna go down in history.
May 24th 2020
317

CyrenYoung
Charter member
34204 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 12:59 PM

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1. "Fans/Critics of Cuomo, can we get a response? (Link/Videos)"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-13-20 01:06 PM by CyrenYoung

  

          

..no agenda, but this is not a good look:

https://twitter.com/DrRJKavanagh/status/1249155279293493249


*Edit (for proper context):

Tweet
Rebecca Kavanagh
@DrRJKavanagh
·
Apr 11

Cell phone video shot yesterday on the 145th Street subway platform in Harlem shows a group of NYPD officers terrorizing a little boy for allegedly selling candy.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35861 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 05:50 PM

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9. "how does shitty NYPD have anything to do with Cuomo?"
In response to Reply # 1


          

i haven't been watching his updates so am i missing something?

has he told police to do this?

d

  

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CyrenYoung
Charter member
34204 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 06:49 PM

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16. "they are acting on Cuomo's draconian policies..."
In response to Reply # 9


  

          

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=13376906&mesg_id=13376906&page=2#13377064




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35861 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 04:06 PM

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31. "ok i checked those links"
In response to Reply # 16


          

yes Cuomo has been a shitty governor, but i don't absolve individual police for their actions on behalf of the Police State

nan person can successfully direct me to beat down a defenseless human being. I wouldn't do it..fuck the job

alls I'm saying is, i'm not letting them off the hook. they can follow his draconian policy WITHOUT behaving in an inhumane way.

d

  

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CyrenYoung
Charter member
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42. "Cuomo's silence is deafening..."
In response to Reply # 31


  

          

..I actually hold him and Deblasio equally responsible, as well as the direct officers involved.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Wed Apr-15-20 08:55 AM

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49. "this is true. fair enough."
In response to Reply # 42


          

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Mon Apr-13-20 01:51 PM

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2. ""Council to Reopen America" announced. ***jerk-off motion***"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

As expected, it's the usual collection of clowns and disaster capitalists: Ivanka, Jared, Mnuchin, Wilbur Ross, Larry Kudlow, etc.

This is largely a waste of time, because it's really up to the state and local governments to decide when is the right time to "reopen."

Also, as everyone should now, "re-opening" the country without mass and expedient testing is a recipe for disaster. Even if it's a "rolling" re-opening.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Mon Apr-13-20 02:33 PM

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4. "how can you reopen something that hasnt been closed?"
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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Mon Apr-13-20 02:47 PM

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5. "It's not like you can magically re-open shit either. No one wants to ge..."
In response to Reply # 4


  

          

45 could proclaim Reopening Day, but still no one going to fly, no one going to stay in hotels, restaurants still gonna be crushed, concert venues still busted, still gonna be massive unemployment and still gonna be bodies piling up.

You can't wave that off and just proclaim this shit solved.

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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rawsouthpaw
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Mon Apr-13-20 07:12 PM

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18. "east and west coast states say nah "
In response to Reply # 2


  

          

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/politics/states-band-together-reopening-plans/index.html

  

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EAS
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Mon Apr-13-20 02:02 PM

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3. "Industry scrambles to stop fatal bird flu in South Carolina"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

The good thing is that they had it contained....or did they?
And this is why what I was talking about in the CVU(2)thread is very concerning. These mutations are happening at a faster rate than every 50-100 years. Commercialized factory farming, where these animals are on top of each other in the most unhygienic buildings, are creating super pathogens we have no immunity to.
This current pandemic wasn't something created in a lab, this is something that has been seen before; whether 1918 to 1950's to the early 2000's.
And if this fatal strain of bird flu somehow combines with this strain of coronavirus to make something new, then the world would be in more serious trouble.
There has to be a way to curb the industry so pathogens like this stop popping up.
Also, somehow shut down those wet markets across the globe.


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/industry-scrambles-to-stop-fatal-bird-flu-in-south-carolina

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — An infectious and fatal strain of bird flu has been confirmed in a commercial turkey flock in South Carolina, the first case of the more serious strain of the disease in the United States since 2017 and a worrisome development for an industry that was devastated by previous outbreaks.

The high pathogenic case was found at an operation in Chesterfield County, South Carolina, marking the first case of the more dangerous strain since one found in a Tennessee chicken flock in 2017. In 2015, an estimated 50 million poultry had to be killed at operations mainly in the Upper Midwest after infections spread throughout the region.

“Yes, it’s concerning when we see cases, but we are prepared to respond very quickly and that was done in this case,” said Lyndsay Cole, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service.

The USDA has been working in recent months with scientists and farmers in North Carolina and South Carolina, where a low pathogenic — or less severe — strain of bird flu had been detected.

Low pathogenic bird flu causes few clinical signs in infected birds. However, two strains of low pathogenic bird flu — the H5 and H7 strains — can mutate into highly pathogenic forms, which are frequently fatal to birds and easily transmissible between susceptible species.

Low pathogenic cases were already in an area near the South Carolina and North Carolina state line and USDA was closely monitoring and testing. The case in Chesterfield County, South Carolina was expected to be another low pathogenic case, but it came back from the laboratory high pathogenic which means the less severe virus mutated into the more severe version, Cole said.

“Our scientists at the National Veterinary Services Laboratory had looked at the virus characteristics of the low path virus and they had previously indicated that this was one that was probably likely to mutate so they were watching it very closely,” Cole said.

A laboratory in Ames, Iowa, confirmed the virus with that had been killing turkeys was a high pathogenic H7N3 strain of avian influenza.

A report on the outbreak indicates in was discovered on April 6. It has killed 1,583 turkeys and the remainder of the 32,577 birds in the flock were euthanized.

State officials quarantined the farm, movement controls were implemented and enhanced surveillance was already in place in the area.

“The flock was quickly depopulated and will not enter the marketplace,” said Joel Brandenberger, president of the National Turkey Federation, an industry trade group. “Thorough disinfecting and cleaning procedures have already been initiated on premises as well as surveillance of commercial flocks in the surrounding area. This occurrence poses no threat to public health. Turkey products remain safe and nutritious.”

He said poultry farmers implement strict biosecurity measures year-round and routinely test flocks for avian influenza.

These measures were implemented after an H5N2 avian influenza outbreak that began in December 2014 swept commercial chicken, egg laying and turkey populations throughout much of 2015 killing 50 million birds and causing as much as $3 billion in economic damage. That outbreak is believed to have originated in wild birds.

Nearly 90 percent of the bird losses were on egg-laying chicken farms in Iowa and turkey farms in Minnesota. The bulk of other cases occurred in the adjacent states of Nebraska, Wisconsin, and South Dakota.

Cole said since 2015 significant planning, exercises and coordination has occurred between the federal government, state agencies and the industry.

Cole said the coronavirus pandemic has not affected the ability of the government to respond to the bird flu.

A highly pathogenic H7N9 bird flu strain was detected in Lincoln County, Tennessee, in a chicken flock of 73,500 birds in early March 2017. Ten days later samples from a commercial flock less than two miles away also tested positive for the same strain. The birds were euthanized and buried and the virus didn’t spread further indicating immediate mitigation action can stop spread.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 03:36 PM

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6. "osha announces employers dont have to record covid19 cases."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-13-20 04:05 PM by Reeq

          

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1249092195476557824

these people are ghouls.

meanwhile a pork plant in south dakota had to shut down due to an outbreak of coronavirus infections. they accounted for half the confirmed cases in the entire state.
https://twitter.com/KAPPKVEW/status/1249732837865066500

meat plants in places like pa and ia have shut down under similar circumstances too. it looks like the food supply is starting to get disrupted (which is another story).

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Mon Apr-13-20 03:44 PM

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7. "WTF"
In response to Reply # 6


          

I work OSHA-adjacent and am appalled by this.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35861 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 05:49 PM

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8. "um don't paint all local govt's with the same brush, please"
In response to Reply # 0


          

the lack of a coordinated national response is at fault for all the states being left to fend for themselves (or not), so please place the blame where it belongs

Every other country has responded nationally, except us.

Every
Single
One

Trump and his minions want the death and destruction..this plays right into their fucking greedy cruel hands

they want the "blue" states to suffer. they want Black people to suffer.

The cruelty is the point.

d

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Mon Apr-13-20 05:58 PM

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11. "it says a iot that trumps approval on handling the virus"
In response to Reply # 8


          

is falling and currently underwater in every reputable poll.

and the governors who are implementing shutdowns and doing the best they can without the fed govt are skyrocketing into 70+% approval.

the people get it.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Mon Apr-13-20 06:38 PM

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14. "exactly. lets hope we all KTSE in November"
In response to Reply # 11


          

he must go.

bruh, he's trying to sacrifice the post office just so we can't vote by mail

d

  

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CyrenYoung
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Mon Apr-13-20 07:02 PM

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17. "I didn't say that at all..."
In response to Reply # 8
Mon Apr-13-20 07:04 PM by CyrenYoung

  

          

>the lack of a coordinated national response is at fault for
>all the states being left to fend for themselves (or not), so
>please place the blame where it belongs

The lack of a coordinated national response is precisely why I included local, state, and government officials. As of today, they're still arguing about the right steps to take and continue playing the blame game. There are biases being exposed and its clear that financial agendas trump health & humanity for some of these elected officials (pun intended).

>Trump and his minions want the death and destruction..this
>plays right into their fucking greedy cruel hands
>
>they want the "blue" states to suffer. they want Black people
>to suffer.
>
>The cruelty is the point.

You have a right to your opinion (it could very well be true), but this is bigger than political affiliation. Its not blue vs red state when everyone is at risk.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35861 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 07:30 PM

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19. "RE: I didn't say that at all..."
In response to Reply # 17


          


>The lack of a coordinated national response is precisely why I
>included local, state, and government officials. As of today,
>they're still arguing about the right steps to take and
>continue playing the blame game.

and i was making the point that that's by design. and if your reference to 'blame game' is about them blaming the feds, their complaints are legit.

There are biases being
>exposed and its clear that financial agendas trump health &
>humanity for some of these elected officials (pun intended).

yup, very true.

>
>You have a right to your opinion (it could very well be true),
>but this is bigger than political affiliation. Its not blue vs
>red state when everyone is at risk.

I totally agree with you...i'm describing the Trump admin's point of view, not my own. red vs blue is bullshit when it comes to this public health crisis.

He's the one stoking this Battle Royale for everything its worth.

That's what I'm saying...he's pitting the states against each other by outbidding them on the open markets and/or seizing some PPE from "blue" states (that's why its in quotes cuz its bullshit) and sending his favored governors what they need.

he doesn't care at all for the lives lost. its all political score cards to him and his team.

>
>
>*skatin' the rings of saturn*
>
>
>..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 05:55 PM

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10. "another bonkers press briefing."
In response to Reply # 0


          

this felt like it was months ago...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVhL0A8XsAIRy7H?format=jpg&name=large

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18619 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 06:26 PM

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12. "he constantly sinks to new lows"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

I had as little respect for him as one could possibly have back in 2016, and he’s still managed to fall insanely short of my incredibly low expectations of him.

He’s one of the worst human beings in world history.

  

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dagu
Member since Nov 25th 2005
1650 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 06:37 PM

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13. "My local station cut it off a minute into the propaganda video."
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

---------------------

http://www.last.fm/user/dagu85

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32090 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 10:55 AM

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26. "CNN did basically the same thing"
In response to Reply # 13


  

          

cut away to fact check

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24411 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 07:42 PM

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20. "Apparently he formally announced his dictatorship tonite ?"
In response to Reply # 10


          

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1249834932513505280?s=21

Good for this reporter:
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1249836805169524738?s=21

Obviously those of us with brains have seen it coming for years but I think this it the first time he's come out and said it this explicitly ?

He even mentioned his intention to "draft papers." We've been fucked for a while but damn.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 09:48 AM

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22. "RE: Apparently he formally announced his dictatorship tonite ?"
In response to Reply # 20
Tue Apr-14-20 09:51 AM by allStah

          

It does not matter. He does not have that kind of power. He does not realize that we have a check and balance system that keeps all forms of government under control.
He can draft all he wants to, but nothing will come to fruition.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24411 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 09:57 AM

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23. "We're still doing the "checks and balances" thing ?"
In response to Reply # 22
Tue Apr-14-20 09:58 AM by Brew

          

>It does not matter. He does not have that kind of power. He
>does not realize that we have a check and balance system that
>keeps all forms of government under control.
>He can draft all he wants to, but nothing will come to
>fruition.

I hope you're being sarcastic. Even my most ardent left-wing friends were saying those exact words after the election in 2016. "Yea this is bad but thank god for checks and balances"

How's that worked out so far.

Edit: sorry for sounding like such a dick here - my vitriol is of course not aimed at you. Just frustrated with everything, obviously.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Apr-14-20 11:08 AM

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27. "RE: We're still doing the "checks and balances" thing ..."
In response to Reply # 23
Tue Apr-14-20 11:09 AM by allStah

          

It has worked out just fine. Trump has not done anything that he is not entitled or has power to do. That’s fact.

Presidents can issue executive orders. That is why every president comes into office and immediately changes the executive orders of the previous president. However, executive orders are not legislative laws, only congress can push that. That’s why when Lincoln issued an executive order to abolish slavery in 1863 it didn’t mean much, and people still owned slaves. However, in 1865, once it was passed as a legislation and added to the constitution, it became an official law of the land. ...that’s check and balance. There is no way around it.

2/3rd of Congress will always have more power than the president when it comes to declaring wars, issuing laws, etc . A president cannot engage the country in an armed conflict nationally or internationally without consent of congress. So this I am king over the states is just pure verbiage. The states created the federal government by forming a union, not the other way around.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Mon Apr-13-20 06:44 PM

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15. "The elderly account for almost half of all the Virus-related deaths"
In response to Reply # 0


          

where I'm from. The nursery home is just not the place to be.

Link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/covid-19-quebec-april-12-1.5530217

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 09:35 AM

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21. "Just wanted to post this here too. Really good all-black-women panel on"
In response to Reply # 0


          


the crisis hosted by Angela Rye. Highly recommend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coXYB9ISI_c

Black Women Speak: The Politics of COVID-19.
Did you know Black people are disproportionately affected by and dying with COVID-19? It’s time to take matters into our own hands. In this discussion, Angela Rye called on the justice league of Black Women commentators—

Joy Reid,
Amanda Seales,
Jemele Hill,
Sunny Hostin,
Tiffany Cross,
Errin Haines,
Brittany Packnett Cunningham

to help America understand the politics and racial disparities associated with corona virus.


^^I kind of just stumbled upon it and couldn't stop watching/listening. Really good mix of perspectives and I'd enjoy seeing the same group tackle other topics, for example as a weekly web or cable series.

It's about 1.5h long and just a gently mediated talk - centered on black American experiences - about community-specific risks, impacts, and possible strategies to deal with the pandemic. They touch on lots of angles including (but not limited to):

-thinking about how to message risk communications to get people to care and galvanize across different black experiences;

-commentary about the ingenuity/resilience of folks creating makeshift PPE in the face of shortages/lacking access, and also the racial profiling layer with respect to higher risk of targeting by LE when wearing PPE and/or having to venture to wealthier neighborhoods just to find essentials in the first place;

-barriers to accessing stimulus assistance like owing back child support, lower rate of homeownership (where Sunny speaks from a legal perspective just how unprotected renters are), having a small biz but not employing enough staff by a certain time to qualify for help with payroll, having priors, etc;

-larger proportion of single-parent homes (the parents, aunts/uncles, grandparents of which are the higher risk black folk with chronic conditions leaving kids behind with less caregivers);

And one part I found the most interesting, Sunny summarizes some chatter happening in (black) legal circles laying out what she believes could take the form of a class action, centered on the disproportionate impact that negligent decision-making, failure to test, failure to treat, etc is inflicting on black families during the crisis.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Tue Apr-14-20 10:07 AM

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24. "Fascinating/infuriating stuff - thanks for this. Will watch later."
In response to Reply # 21


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Wed Apr-15-20 12:13 AM

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45. "happy to share!"
In response to Reply # 24


          

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35861 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 06:59 PM

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39. "thank you thank you ..bookmarking this!"
In response to Reply # 21


          

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
2218 posts
Wed Apr-15-20 12:12 AM

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44. "lol np! "
In response to Reply # 39


          

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32090 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 10:55 AM

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25. "thinking more and more about the effects on globalization"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

after all the dust settles from this



a push towards the idea that some goods and services like med supplies need to be produced here.



  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 11:41 AM

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28. "This is basic risk management"
In response to Reply # 25


          

>a push towards the idea that some goods and services like med
>supplies need to be produced here.

The reason they aren't is because someone could make $1 more by having it done elsewhere.

I hope people see certain industries and functions should not be driven solely by profit.

We'll see.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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CyrenYoung
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Tue Apr-14-20 12:11 PM

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29. "This crises has exposed the U.S. in so many ways..."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

..From infrastructure to industry.

We've always known that our jobs/livelihood were sacrificed for profit. For years people leveraged others for the sake of financial gain.

Right now, we have calls for volunteers to participate in manufacturing PPEs and other resources needed to help quell this pandemic. We know that certain industries closed up shop here years ago in favor of lower wages and larger profit margins overseas. If they don't see the urgent need to maintain the balance at home at all times, we're doomed to repeat these scenarios (or worst).




*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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poetx
Charter member
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Tue Apr-14-20 05:34 PM

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34. "yeah. all america's sins are laid bare in this. "
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

- lack of universal healthcare = colossal health and economic risk
- healthcare tied to employment is stupid.
- inequity and inverted prioritization of gov't (under good circumstances, not even counting trump fuckery)
- trump fuckery: power motivation is so strong someone can do (pick any 2 things he's done) and face no consequences or pushback
- extreme outsourcing = economic and security risk. we need ability to have a critical supply chain for food, medical and other goods, with a certain percentage home grown

that's a lot of big ticket shit. if hrc woulda won (extending obama presidency) i think we could have been much closer to a public option, which could have morphed into m4a by her 2nd term). *maybe* we can get some kind of public option / m4a-ish solution as a result of this complete and total disaster. but then again, you still got states that ain't even on lockdown, and ppl protesting to kick off corona part 2.


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
32090 posts
Wed Apr-15-20 08:49 AM

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48. "yeah if a crisis don't get us to change ..."
In response to Reply # 28


  

          

>>a push towards the idea that some goods and services like
>med
>>supplies need to be produced here.
>
>The reason they aren't is because someone could make $1 more
>by having it done elsewhere.
>
>I hope people see certain industries and functions should not
>be driven solely by profit.
>


>We'll see.




but we'll see though

Because I can see the needle moving back towards a nationalist sentiment in countries. I hope that doesn't happen, and that we just focus on certain industries and functions producing shit in our own borders.

  

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Dr Claw
Member since Jun 25th 2003
132214 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 04:03 PM

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30. "good to see some regionalism from the CA and NY factions"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

in considering when to ease restrictions. because interstate travel and commerce, of course.

but... none of this can really open back up unless there is widespread testing and isolation guidelines to which the country tightly adheres.

and that's before medicine catches up.

the USA is uniquely screwed in this regard. even if you get rid of Trump and that shithole federal government, you still got the rogue's gallery of governors: Ass-bott (TX), Shitt (OK), Ivey (AL), Reeves (MS), Lyin' Kemp (GA), McBastard (SC), De-Scam-Tis (FL) and others fucking it up for everyone else.

Yes, I'm mad. Let's move on.

Jays | Cavs | Eagles | Sabres | Tarheels

PSN: Dr_Claw_77 | XBL: Dr Claw 077 | FB: drclaw077 | T: @drclaw77 | http://thepeoplesvault.wordpress.com

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
16125 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 04:12 PM

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32. "Anyone else thinking of jumping ship"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

My wife and I had a serious conversation about leaving the US. We both have savings, we own a house that has equity, we don;t have children, and she has family in NZ that has offered to help us get situated. (Her cousin left after Bush 43 was elected)

I personally do not/cannot trust this country. Way to many failing for what benefits? I can't fathom that leaving in NZ would be worse than here. My parents did it, they left a country searching for better. Why not us.

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Tue Apr-14-20 04:53 PM

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33. "RE: Anyone else thinking of jumping ship"
In response to Reply # 32


          

If it were easy, a lot of people would have done it already. I would have left years ago for Canada.

It’s not that easy. Being an immigrant in a another country is very difficult, which puts you on the other side of the fence. America has become a terrible country. However, as a citizen you still have rights and civil liberties.

In order to live and work in another country, you have to possess a certain skill or have a certain trade the country can use, or be sponsored by a company or job to work and and live in a particular country. Or you can apply or seek asylum. Canada gets a boat load of applications from Americans seeking asylum. It’s crazy. To me racism and capitalism are a threat and danger to life, so I would seek asylum ,too. I imagine all applicants get rejected, though, since it’s not the same as a person trying to escape war, death or famine in their homeland



  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Tue Apr-14-20 06:46 PM

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38. "It's not easy but not impossible"
In response to Reply # 33


          

just takes research and planning.

there are also some countries that actually do make it easy for American expats

d

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Apr-15-20 12:09 AM

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43. "# 41"
In response to Reply # 33


          


it's actually a relatively painless mechanism for skilled professionals. I'm not sure whether many Americans even realize it's available to them.


The problem now tho is the pandemic making job searches tough for the next while.

But worth looking into for folks very interested

  

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CyrenYoung
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Wed Apr-15-20 12:10 PM

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57. "Correction: America has ALWAYS BEEN a terrible country..."
In response to Reply # 33


  

          


>It’s not that easy. Being an immigrant in a another country
>is very difficult, which puts you on the other side of the
>fence. America has become a terrible country. However, as a
>citizen you still have rights and civil liberties.

I know what you meant, but I just wanted it on record in this convo (since this will be archived).

This country was founded on slavery, genocide, and theft. Its been the worst country in the world since its inception, and until they right those wrongs, they'll always remain in that pole position.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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110. "thank you for putting this so succintly."
In response to Reply # 57


          

Coming to this realization and acceptance over the last 5 years has been devastating for me because I grew up believing the hype about America, and really bought into Obama's hope and change....I barely understood they way capitalism and government worked back then.

I definitely have to thank the Trump Era for shaking me out of that doldrum. This place is fucking trash and I can't wait to be able to leave.

d

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Apr-14-20 06:19 PM

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36. "i was gonna move to canada on a business or investor visa."
In response to Reply # 32


          

that was the fastest way to jump the line and also go from temp to permanent resident if you can afford it.

i was also thinking about enrolling in a college up there and just spending a few years as a visitor to see if things cooled off. i got a hookup at ryerson in toronto too. and i could prolly get a post grad work permit to extend the 'trial' a few more years.

ultimately i felt like id never be able to sleep at night if i left the rest of my family here to deal with this shit on their own.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Apr-15-20 12:03 AM

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41. "There's provisions under NAFTA/USMCA that allow Americans to work in "
In response to Reply # 36
Wed Apr-15-20 12:04 AM by kfine

          

Canada (for a temporary period with renewals) through an expedited work permit approval process, as long as they can qualify under one of the eligible job titles (they're listed under section 3.8 in the below link):

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/temporary-residents/foreign-workers/international-free-trade-agreements/north-american.html

If you google TN professionals or NAFTA work permit or TN visas the results that come up most frequently are resources for Canadian or Mexican citizens seeking/able to work in the US, which I think might lead people to not realize there's full reciprocity in the agreement.

TNs are pretty popular bc once a job offer is secured the applicant can just focus on getting their paper work together (offer letter, credentials, passport, etc) and get processed right at the border/a port of entry same day.


More links:

https://www.canadianimmigration.com/working-in-canada/nafta-work-permit/professional/

https://allhod.com/canada-immigration/temporary-workers-in-canada/nafta-professional-workers-in-canada/

https://www.settler.ca/english/usmca-a-canadian-visa-and-work-permit-perspective-the-replacement-for-nafta/

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed Apr-15-20 01:05 AM

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46. "correct me if im wrong but i believe those are heavily geared"
In response to Reply # 41


          

torward temporary work (some sort of estimated start/end date). and part of the reason for the nature of expedited admission is because youre agreeing to only serve a specific purpose then get your ass out lol.

its fairly strict what you can/cant do within the country too (to discourage any notion of extended residence). the most common form of illegal immigration isnt border crossing but overstaying these type of employment visas and going below the radar. so they pay particular attention to the type of behavior that usually precedes that.

i think the op (and the person you replied to up there) was talking about long term emigration tho. and the type of options that are more long term or open ended and providing a pathway to permanent residence/citizenship (like employment/skills visas that you just keep renewing as long as you are employed).

one of the biggest barriers to employment related entry/residence is that you typically have to *already* be hired by a company up there. and you cant stay for an extended period of time up there just to search for employment (its specifically forbidden and they will check to see how/when you were hired). if you violate that...you could be banned from traveling there period.

when i first started digging around...i was looking at going up there for the typical max 3/6 month visa-free stay. then getting an apt off the books or airbnb while looking for a job (im self employed so i technically dont need it to support myself...just to secure the visa). then coming back and applying for the proper visa when i got the employment offer.

after researching a bunch of personal anecdotes on expat boards and speaking to somebody at a consulate down here...i decided it wasnt worth the risk of getting banned.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Apr-15-20 09:20 AM

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53. "Ya they are, about 1 year with extensions/renewals possible. But"
In response to Reply # 46


          


the expediency is convenient for anyone that's perhaps just looking for an immediate break from their country for a while. It's not like permanent emigration is a light decision. And yes you're right, folks are limited to just working the one job they get but this is what a lot of ppl do anyway. The timeframe and stability is more dependent on the employer tbh, applicants work more closely with them on paperwork etc.

I mean temporary visa overstays are common, in both countries, but they happen with all sorts including student visas. It's seriously not that hard to follow the rules of a new country if it's one's intent. The dynamic you're talking about is moreso driven by people seeking to exploit non-immigrant pathways with long-term residence always being the goal, and they're often from countries that don't have luxuries like the TN pathway agreed to by Can-US-Mex via treaty. It's kind of like the GC marriage circuit: it's not like its abuse discredits the entire fiance visa mechanism as a path for actual couples seeking to unite/marry in the US. Imho, non-shady people that take the time to learn their mechanism and follow the rules have very little to worry about.. other than maybe getting a jerk at the border (and Canadian agents tend to be friendlier than American ones anyway lol).

Anywho I just suggested it because I've been seeing a lot of chatter on this topic in reaction to the possibility of 45s re-election, and I've observed mostly positive experiences with this mechanism first-hand (tho its usually been folks using it to work in the US).

Restricting oneself to ONLY permanent emigration may seem overwhelming to some folks, is my overall point I guess. But if someone was interested in trying a new situation out temporarily (say, until 2024 lol), and then evaluating then whether they're ready to try the US again or look into more permanent emigration pathways (eg. school, marriage, etc), then a hassle-free mechanism where the first and biggest step is a job search may be an easier baby step for some people.

Like they could literally just look for/find a job, get some renters for their condo or house or whatever, and bounce. Binational taxation sucks tho.





>torward temporary work (some sort of estimated start/end
>date). and part of the reason for the nature of expedited
>admission is because youre agreeing to only serve a specific
>purpose then get your ass out lol.
>
>its fairly strict what you can/cant do within the country too
>(to discourage any notion of extended residence). the most
>common form of illegal immigration isnt border crossing but
>overstaying these type of employment visas and going below the
>radar. so they pay particular attention to the type of
>behavior that usually precedes that.
>
>i think the op (and the person you replied to up there) was
>talking about long term emigration tho. and the type of
>options that are more long term or open ended and providing a
>pathway to permanent residence/citizenship (like
>employment/skills visas that you just keep renewing as long as
>you are employed).
>
>one of the biggest barriers to employment related
>entry/residence is that you typically have to *already* be
>hired by a company up there. and you cant stay for an
>extended period of time up there just to search for employment
>(its specifically forbidden and they will check to see
>how/when you were hired). if you violate that...you could be
>banned from traveling there period.
>
>when i first started digging around...i was looking at going
>up there for the typical max 3/6 month visa-free stay. then
>getting an apt off the books or airbnb while looking for a job
>(im self employed so i technically dont need it to support
>myself...just to secure the visa). then coming back and
>applying for the proper visa when i got the employment offer.
>
>after researching a bunch of personal anecdotes on expat
>boards and speaking to somebody at a consulate down here...i
>decided it wasnt worth the risk of getting banned.

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Apr-15-20 09:33 AM

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55. "on this in particular, I think you were over-complicating it:"
In response to Reply # 46
Wed Apr-15-20 09:48 AM by kfine

          

>
>when i first started digging around...i was looking at going
>up there for the typical max 3/6 month visa-free stay. then
>getting an apt off the books or airbnb while looking for a job
>(im self employed so i technically dont need it to support
>myself...just to secure the visa). then coming back and
>applying for the proper visa when i got the employment offer.
>
>after researching a bunch of personal anecdotes on expat
>boards and speaking to somebody at a consulate down here...i
>decided it wasnt worth the risk of getting banned.


It's generally a bad idea to use non-immigrant pathways for purposes other than they were intended for. So basically, a 3-6month visit under non-immigrant tourist status should be for just chilling, sight-seeing, etc. I mean I'm sure lots of people have found/been offered jobs while visiting, but the point is re-locating to hopefully find a job during that period would have been bad strategy imho.

I think it'd be much safer to apply for jobs from the US, travel up if/as needed for interviews and such (as a regular visa-free visitor), and then if successful, work with the employer (as you're preparing to leave the US) to get your offer letter and other documentation in order (degree(s), transcripts, etc.), so that you'll have everything ready for your move day when you get processed at the Port of Entry (as a TN).

Airbnbs would make more sense to stay at on your interview trips or immediately upon longer-term arrival (after getting processed/approved at the Port of Entry), like if you had trouble securing an apartment/place to stay before your move/hire date kind of thing.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Wed Apr-15-20 09:06 AM

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52. "this is really helpful...thanks"
In response to Reply # 41


          

  

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kfine
Member since Jan 11th 2009
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Wed Apr-15-20 09:33 AM

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56. "np!"
In response to Reply # 52


          

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Tue Apr-14-20 06:44 PM

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37. "Yes, we are planning for Jan/Feb"
In response to Reply # 32


          

maybe sooner, if I get an inkling that Trump would try to prevent folks from leaving

My plan is to temporarily settle in Montreal. I have a friend with a big house there. I'll also be studying to become a certified English teacher so I can then travel to other countries and work. I have a non-regional accent and a MA degree so I should be good to work in South Korea, Japan etc

My younger son is planning to start over in Tokyo and the older one will likely head to Europe once his show is done

I'm ready for a new life and this country is severely and irreparably (at least for the next 10 years) compromised.

d

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Tue Apr-14-20 07:08 PM

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40. "That's if you're able to get in as the border is closed to Americans. "
In response to Reply # 37


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Wed Apr-15-20 08:58 AM

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50. "I'm aware but Jan/Feb is a long way from now. "
In response to Reply # 40
Wed Apr-15-20 08:59 AM by Damali

          

Canada isn't a trash country like the U.S.

They will likely open the border in the fall and potentially require a 14 day quarantine for americans entering and i'm fine with that

thanks for the Debbie Downer support.

d

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Wed Apr-15-20 07:59 AM

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47. "unless its Canada, better be ready ot learn a whole new lang and culture"
In response to Reply # 32


  

          

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Wed Apr-15-20 09:01 AM

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51. "what's with this discouraging response?"
In response to Reply # 47


          

you really think someone considering to move out of the country hasn't considered that?

sheesh.

got any words of encourgement to spare?

d

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Wed Apr-15-20 12:13 PM

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59. "good luck with the TESL thing"
In response to Reply # 51


  

          

I'd encourage you to read more about people's experience going to Korea and stuff


esp non white people


They have a very specific idea of what someone qualified to teach english should look like

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Sat Apr-18-20 10:04 PM

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111. "yeah i'm aware of that too. why? "
In response to Reply # 59


          

cuz i'm a dark skinned black woman and how i fucking look is always the first thing I consider when considering travelling anywhere for any reason

like why the fuck are you so hellbent on being a snarky debby downer?

i also personally know dark skin black poeple who have done well teaching specifically in Seoul.

d

  

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obsidianchrysalis
Member since Jan 29th 2003
8747 posts
Mon May-25-20 11:15 PM

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320. "Some people make it work"
In response to Reply # 111


  

          

My brother who's kinda fairskinned/lightskinned taught English in Taiwan a long time ago. He said it was a good experience for the most part. He kind of had to disprove a couple of stereotypes early on but after that initial period the students warmed up to him alot.

Good luck!

<--- Me when my head hits the pillow

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
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Wed Apr-15-20 04:17 PM

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68. "That's why we're considering New Zealand. "
In response to Reply # 47


  

          

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Tue Apr-14-20 06:08 PM

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35. "trump: i will be authorizing governors to reopen their states "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue Apr-14-20 06:19 PM by Reeq

          

whenever and however they want lol.

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1250193573879918598
-----
Trump says he is authorizing governors to make their own decisions on when to reopen. Ok.
-----

dude really still tryna sound powerful while he tucks his tail.

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5818 posts
Wed Apr-15-20 09:23 AM

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54. "Essence Fest back in 2021:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/fox8nola/status/1250400800008003584?s=21

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Apr-15-20 12:12 PM

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58. "It's time to get the FOCK out of america"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Apr-15-20 12:21 PM by allStah

          

The president added Vince Mcmahon and Dana White to the National Reopen Economic task force. The majority of people on that list should be economist and scientist.

That's not the case. The force is mostly made up of people like Jerry Jones, Marc Cuban, etc. BUSINESS Tycoons calling the shots on when and how to reopen.

Where are the Governors, scientist, economists,etc?

  

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GOMEZ
Member since Feb 13th 2003
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Wed Apr-15-20 12:57 PM

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61. "the list got me shook for real"
In response to Reply # 58


  

          

https://www.businessinsider.com/musk-dimon-mcmahon-20-trump-advisors-reopen-us-economy-2020-4

In a generation of swine, the one-eyed pig is king.
-Hunter S. Thompson

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed Apr-15-20 01:50 PM

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63. "Everybody on there has a clear incentive to open everything up yesterday"
In response to Reply # 58


          

I'm trying to imagine Sheldon Adelson on a conference call being like "well, I think we should wait until its safe before we open the casinos back up"

_______________________________________

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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64. "RE: Everybody on there has a clear incentive to open everything up yeste..."
In response to Reply # 63


          

Lol.

I can’t lie. I miss poker like crazy.

Seriously, there is not one lawmaker or democrat on that list, and they are slowly trying to force Dr. Fauci to give a full approval. He is now saying that sports league could return behind closed doors and that he wants to see sports leagues return.

  

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Trinity444
Charter member
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Wed Apr-15-20 12:22 PM

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60. "Face masks are law now in NYS..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Apr-15-20 12:22 PM by Trinity444

  

          

...

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
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Wed Apr-15-20 03:34 PM

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67. "Only now? "
In response to Reply # 60


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Nodima
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62. "In slightly brighter news, stimulus is rolling out"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I feel so weird right now. I'm kind of out of work, and the restaurant industry could still fully collapse at any moment, but right today? I feel relatively rich for the first time in my life. Just need to keep reminding myself this is NOT to be spent on a new TV or anything dumblike that.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Apr-15-20 03:17 PM

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65. "RE: In slightly brighter news, stimulus is rolling out"
In response to Reply # 62


          

Well, also, Democrats are working on another stimulus bill, where everyone will be paid 2000 dollars a month until the economy is a full strength.

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44709 posts
Wed Apr-15-20 03:29 PM

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66. "These fucking idiots are going to get everyone killed"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Ultra-right Michigan dipshits are pissed that Whitmer (the Governor of Michigan) has put strict shelter-in-place order. So they decided to hold a "mass protest" in Lansing, but try to obey social distancing guidelines. Of course, they didn't, marching the streets, carrying assault weapons, and posing for photos on the steps of the capitol.

The kicker is that Whitmer's restrictions don't seem that strict. These guys seem stuck on that is it bars "in-state travel to vacation residences." Like, seriously, they're pulling guns out because they can't got to their vacation homes and get on their boats? They're also restricting large stores having to close areas "dedicated to carpeting, flooring, furniture, garden centers, plant nurseries, or paint." Lots of states do this already.

Morons are complaining that Witmer is treating them like children, and they're acting exactly like them.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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Wed Apr-15-20 04:26 PM

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69. "like 70% of michiganders approve of whitmers handling of the crisis."
In response to Reply # 66


          

so these dickheads (and right wing media) gotta make shit up and say she banned american flags nshit like that. and of course thats one of the top stories being circulated on facebook in regards to whitmer/michigan.

  

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lsymone
Member since Nov 03rd 2007
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Thu Apr-16-20 12:32 PM

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81. "not only Michigan, but it appears to be a firestorm of other states"
In response to Reply # 66


          

following: Ohio and now Virginia, and soon more will follow.

which leads me to believe a wealthy donor is behind this.

take a message

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
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Thu Apr-16-20 03:18 PM

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82. "I think "firestorm" isn't the right word."
In response to Reply # 81


  

          

You're correct in that this is being funded by wealthy Right-wing shit-heads, but this is like groups of dozens in each state. Hardly a genuine groundswell of rejection. It's getting a lot of traction in the news because "both sides" have to get covered, I guess.

Unfortunately, even the acts of dozens can put the rest of the population in serious danger during a pandemic.

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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70. "yesterday was our deadliest day by far."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVrKnfmXgAY_Dwj?format=jpg&name=large

meat processing plants, grocery stores, and farmers markets are shutting down because of outbreaks.

nursing homes and jails/prisons are death traps in a full state of crisis (that repubs are trying to suppress information about).

just as theyre talking about 'opening the economy'.

  

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mista k5
Member since Feb 01st 2006
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Wed Apr-15-20 04:47 PM

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71. "its really stupid"
In response to Reply # 70


  

          

if we completely shut down for 3 weeks we could potential dead it completely.

instead were going to drag it on for months and just let more people get sick and die. keep looking for excuses to stay open and go out.

  

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handle
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72. "Well, the peak day will be the worst"
In response to Reply # 70


          

Hoping that was this week - specifically yesterday.

But work's thinking maybe we'll be back in office in June - unless it's longer.

We're at

27,967 deaths RIGHT now. That's 6x the U.S. deaths of the Iraq War - 8x of those on 9/11.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
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Wed Apr-15-20 05:53 PM

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73. "Using crisis to grab power. Trump threatens to adjourn Congress..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Apr-15-20 05:55 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

If they don't approve his nominees like for the head of Voice of America (wtf).

Says he is thinking about adjourning Congress and doing recess appointments for all open positions requiring votes, including judges

_______________________________________

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
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Wed Apr-15-20 07:47 PM

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74. "He just cut funding to the WHO. "
In response to Reply # 73


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Wed Apr-15-20 11:36 PM

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75. "Vaccine injury compensation is a thing. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

People develop serious injuries from vaccine trials, and since the covid-19 vaccine candidate is being fast tracked, meaning it is bypassing animal testing and going straight to testing humans, a lot of injuries are going to come from it. This is a very dangerous process. Animals are usually tested before anything goes to human trials.


I would rather wait the 5-10 years that it takes to properly develop a vaccine, instead of having people develop cancer and autism because scientists rushed to have a vaccine developed within 1-2 years.

https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/over-57-million-paid-by-u-s-government-for-vaccine-injuries-in-2020-as-experimental-coronavirus-vaccine-fast-tracked/?fbclid=IwAR1afvZ0DTfE5sHzBNFYxyyb9lfY2Z4o-2DBwTFJj0wHeJjVG6SNzc8rI4g


  

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soulfunk
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79. "Please don't go here..."
In response to Reply # 75


  

          

>autism because scientists rushed to have a vaccine developed
>within 1-2 years.

  

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handle
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80. "No, it illustrates the rossover between REAL and FAKE"
In response to Reply # 79


          

>>autism because scientists rushed to have a vaccine
>developed
>>within 1-2 years.

And how this world is filled with people who can not be trusted.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Thu Apr-16-20 03:46 PM

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83. "RE: Please don't go here..."
In response to Reply # 79
Thu Apr-16-20 03:48 PM by allStah

          

What do mean don’t go there?

A lot of science testing protocols, depending on who is doing the testing, might be getting side stepped, while dealing with this pandemic....and no might be.. they are getting side stepped normal protocols.

These vaccine testings has bypassed the necessary animal testing stages, going straight to humans, and you don’t think there are going to be some serious health issues to come from that?

I was talking to another poster about this in another thread. He stated they are going to have a vaccine before the year is out, and I told him that was impossible. Normal vaccine development takes 5-10 years, and in extreme, by way of a miracle, 1-3 years.

If they say they will have a vaccine before the year is out, don’t take that shit .. you will either die, develop serious issues, or your offsprings will develop autism to lupus , to whatever.


I’m not against proper vaccines, but there are a lot of vaccines out here creating massive health issues.



Ain’t no fake news about it. They are taking hugeeeeee risks. And understand this, American drug companies are the ones who bypassed animal trials.... foreign countries did not.


https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN20Y1GZ
https://www.the-sun.com/news/537878/human-trials-coronavirus-vaccine/amp/



  

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soulfunk
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84. "I’m specifically talking about mentioning autism along "
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

with the possibility of being caused by a vaccine. Any link between autism and vaccines has been disproven time and time again, and it’s a connection that would have never been made separate from the one fraudulent paper from the late 90’s that sparked the anti-vaccine movement.

As a father of a son with ASD, this is a touchy subject for me.

  

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Backbone
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88. "Can you name a few?"
In response to Reply # 83


  

          

>I’m not against proper vaccines, but there are a lot of
>vaccines out here creating massive health issues.

Are you referring to older, discontinued vaccines, or current ones?

I agree that these trials shouldn't be rushed and that it's unlikely we'll have a vaccine soon*, but specifically mentioning autism and making sweeping statements in relationship to vaccine safety comes dangerously close to fear mongering, imo.


*) There are about 80 vaccine projects underway and the main route of speeding them up is finding volunteers who will deliberately be exposed to the virus. If researchers can deal with the ethical implications of that approach, we might see vaccines sooner than is normally the case with new viruses.

___________________
"So this is what everybody's always talking about! Diablo! If only I'd known. The beauty! The beauty!"

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
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Fri Apr-17-20 01:47 PM

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93. "RE: Can you name a few?"
In response to Reply # 88
Fri Apr-17-20 01:50 PM by allStah

          

>>I’m not against proper vaccines, but there are a lot of
>>vaccines out here creating massive health issues.
>
>Are you referring to older, discontinued vaccines, or current
>ones?
>
>I agree that these trials shouldn't be rushed and that it's
>unlikely we'll have a vaccine soon*, but specifically
>mentioning autism and making sweeping statements in
>relationship to vaccine safety comes dangerously close to fear
>mongering, imo.
>
>
>*) There are about 80 vaccine projects underway and the main
>route of speeding them up is finding volunteers who will
>deliberately be exposed to the virus. If researchers can deal
>with the ethical implications of that approach, we might see
>vaccines sooner than is normally the case with new viruses.

Yes. I can name one. The flu vaccine. The CDC even has a website for people who have been injured by the vaccine to go to. From allergic reactions to other serious to mild issues, people have been injured from current flu vaccines. So I’m not a big fan of the flu vaccine because of the frequency at which they are recommended ( every year), and due to some of the question marks regarding the safety of the vaccine.

I don’t have a problem with the chicken pox,mumps,polio or tetanus vaccines. Those shots stay the same and are only needed once, and a booster shot needed for tetanus, I believe, every ten years.

As far as seeing a vaccine getting approved rather sooner than later, still will not be ready for at least 1-2 years( and that’s with skipping animal testing ). I stress that America is the only country that is bypassing animal testing ( to my knowledge) , so keep that in mind futuristically. By bypass animal testing you could possibly make the process even longer , because issues could come about that could have been addressed before hand via animal testing. It’s like painting a wall without priming it first. If the paint doesn’t cure, you have to strip everything and start all over.



  

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Rjcc
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101. "..."
In response to Reply # 93


          

he's going to keep pushing the line on misinformation.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

  

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Backbone
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114. "I know vaccines can have side effects."
In response to Reply # 93


  

          

You were saying "a lot of vaccines out here creating massive health issues" and only managed to give the flu shot as an example of a shot that *you* consider risky, without citing any evidence to support your claim.

It's like saying seat belts are incredibly dangerous because on some incredibly rare occasions, people get trapped by them instead of having their lives saved.

You're muddying the waters, for what?

___________________
"So this is what everybody's always talking about! Diablo! If only I'd known. The beauty! The beauty!"

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
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Wed Apr-22-20 06:37 PM

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147. "I wish "mass stupidity injury compensation" was a thing. "
In response to Reply # 75
Wed Apr-22-20 06:37 PM by stravinskian

          

.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Thu Apr-16-20 07:50 AM

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76. "Another 5.2 million new unemployment claims ☹️"
In response to Reply # 0


          

22 million total over past month

_______________________________________

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22151 posts
Thu Apr-16-20 08:44 AM

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77. "HOLD UP. The NY zipcode with the most cases is named..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Corona NY? Get the fuck out.


see for yourself: https://flo.uri.sh/visualisation/1832440/embed

zipcode 11368

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Thu Apr-16-20 10:55 AM

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78. "Man, I hope The Beatnuts are okay"
In response to Reply # 77


          

Corona Kings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0RCy3FeytY

Actually I hope everyone's okay

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Apr-16-20 05:22 PM

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85. "we now have more americans dead than hillary had emails (c) rick wilson"
In response to Reply # 0


          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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86. "this bitch is really mad that states are getting too much credit."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1250921394440896517
-----
TRUMP: "We have some states that got too much credit for what they've done, frankly. I could name you a couple of those."

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
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87. "~4600 deaths yesterday. over 2000 more than previous high (day before)."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1250972260741062657
-----
Reported U.S. coronavirus deaths reached a record-high 4,591 in 24 hours ending Thursday night, an analysis of data from Johns Hopkins shows

https://t.co/xJVqFGz1yb
-----

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Apr-17-20 07:42 AM

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89. "Repugs SNUCK a tax break for the wealthy into stimulus bill"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

FOH

Either Dems didn’t read it, or they’re incompetently ignorant

Repugs been playing dirty pool since the 2000 election

Dems stay pwned

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24411 posts
Fri Apr-17-20 09:12 AM

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90. "Got a link ?"
In response to Reply # 89


          

>FOH
>
>Either Dems didn’t read it, or they’re incompetently
>ignorant
>
>Repugs been playing dirty pool since the 2000 election
>
>Dems stay pwned

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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tariqhu
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92. "link"
In response to Reply # 90


          

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/04/14/why-are-rich-americans-getting-17-million-stimulus-checks/#1a89207a665b

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24411 posts
Fri Apr-17-20 02:41 PM

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95. "Repugnantcans being repugnant. Jesus."
In response to Reply # 92


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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poetx
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100. "dayum. and ppl out here sweating $1,200"
In response to Reply # 92


  

          


peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

  

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Amritsar
Member since Jan 18th 2008
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Sat Apr-18-20 09:06 AM

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102. "Are you madder at the DNC for this? "
In response to Reply # 89


  

          

Than, you know, the party behind the move?

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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112. "Thank you for the concern about my emotional well-being "
In response to Reply # 102
Sun Apr-19-20 08:38 AM by bentagain

  

          

Do you have a comment to add about the topic?

I’d be more interested in your opinion on the topic...than a continuation of your criticism of me personally

Trillions, upon trillions of taxpayer money is being handed out

...during a repug administration...

How do you feel about a D party being complicit...whether through intent, ignorance or incompetence...in providing financial windfalls for the wealthy during a national crisis

AGAIN

?

To clarify, I’m mad that the story is being presented in a context that the Ds are helpless or being tricked, etc...

That’s not a valid defense in 2020

Please offer yours.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
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Sat Apr-18-20 02:31 PM

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105. "Or wealthy Dem's stand to benefit from it, hence the non-opposition. "
In response to Reply # 89


          

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Mon Apr-20-20 09:19 AM

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116. "Stimulus bill wouldn't have been passed without it"
In response to Reply # 89


          

Repups wanted to not give ANY stimulus money

Dems wanted to not give ANY tax breaks to the rich.

They compromised.

Pelosi and Shumer explained exactly that.

This is what always happens. Sadly, this is how U.S. government works. There has never been any such thing as an earmark-free bill.

d

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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121. "C'mon fam"
In response to Reply # 116


  

          

Repugs didn't want any bailout...riiiiiiiiiight

C'mon

So it's woe is me for the Ds, they had no choice?

You really think the Repugs were just going to let the entire economy crumble...

...really...

?

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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159. "RE: C'mon fam"
In response to Reply # 121


          

>Repugs didn't want any bailout...riiiiiiiiiight
>
>C'mon
>
>So it's woe is me for the Ds, they had no choice?

please point me to where i said woe is me they had no choice.
>
>You really think the Repugs were just going to let the entire
>economy crumble...

of course not, however, they don't believe that giving money to poor people props up the economy.

Republicans are 100% trash. The Democratic Party is tragically flawed as well, but at least they aren't bending the knee for Trump...right now that's their only saving grace.

On the other side of Trump, i truly hope their can be a viable progressive third party formed...Dems are now way too moderate and the GOP is too far to the right.

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
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Thu Apr-23-20 11:06 AM

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162. "RE: Repups wanted to not give ANY stimulus money"
In response to Reply # 159


  

          

3 bills later...and working on a 4th...that sounded like a plea cop.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
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Fri May-01-20 01:14 PM

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219. "i got no skin in the game to cop pleas for anyone"
In response to Reply # 162


          

i'm simply adding my thoughts and analysis just like you are

except, you're doing that dumb annoying shit where you switch to judging me cuz you don't agree *shrug*

have fun tho.

d

  

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tariqhu
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91. "so WWE is essential business in FL."
In response to Reply # 0


          

this is why can't have nice things.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/14/834098998/florida-designates-pro-wrestling-essential-business

World Wrestling Entertainment resumed its live televised shows Monday at its facility in Orlando without fans present. After weeks of airing taped pro wrestling matches, WWE received permission last week with a signed order from Florida's Emergency Management Director. The order says "employees at a professional sports and media production with a national audience" are exempt from a stay-at-home order as long as "the location is closed to the general public."

The order was signed April 9. At a press conference Monday, Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings said when Florida Governor Ron DeSantis ordered a statewide lockdown April 1, at first, WWE was not exempted. "With some conversation with the governor's office regarding the governor's order, they were deemed an essential business," Demings said. "And so therefore, they were allowed to remain open."

The order opens the way for Ultimate Fighting Championship and other professional sports associations to resume production and live events in Florida, as long as they're done without an audience.

The WWE events are resuming after the online news site Pro Wrestling Sheet reported one of those involved with the production's on-air staff tested positive for the coronavirus. In a statement to the news site, WWE said, "We believe this matter is low risk to WWE talent and staff, as the individual and a roommate became symptomatic in the days following exposure to two people working in acute health care on the evening of March 26, after WWE's TV production on a closed set was already complete." WWE says the employee has had no contact with anyone with the organization since then and has since recovered.

In a statement released to multiple news organizations, WWE said: "We believe it is now more important than ever to provide people with a diversion from these hard times. We are producing content on a closed set with only essential personnel in attendance following appropriate guidelines while taking additional precautions to ensure the health and wellness of our performers and staff."

In Tallahassee on Tuesday, DeSantis said the decision to declare certain sports or entertainment companies "essential businesses" is done on a "case-by-case basis." He said he believes it's time to begin allowing some sports to resume if, like WWE, it can be done without an audience present. The governor said, "If NASCAR does a race and can televise it without having large crowds, I think that's a good thing." DeSantis said he'd also like to see Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson face off in a golf match. "You wouldn't have a gallery there. You wouldn't have crowds," he said. "But to put that on TV, I think people have been starved for content

Y'all buy those labels, I was born supreme

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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94. "today Cuomo had time!!! Damn, he killed Trump"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Been waiting for that. Much deserved.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Apr-17-20 02:42 PM

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96. "? Please elaborate !"
In response to Reply # 94


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
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Fri Apr-17-20 03:00 PM

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97. "he spent a good 15 minutes shooting down Trump’s BS"
In response to Reply # 96


  

          

Trump was tweeting about Cuomo during this press conference. Reporter told him what Trump had tweeted and asked him to respond.

Cuomo discusses Trump “giving the Governors the power” to decide when to open up...basically suggests he should read the Constitution.

- Cracks that Trump should get up and go to work instead of watching TV.
- Addresses how Trump keeps asking for thank yous on the occasions that he actually does his job.
- Points out that they were going off the CDC’s projections as far as how many ventilators and hospital beds would be needed.
- Talks about how Trump wants nothing to do with helping with testing because “it’s too hard”.

Lots of good stuff in there...

51:25 mark is where it starts.
http://youtu.be/Rifld_dEdxY

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
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Fri Apr-17-20 03:08 PM

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98. "Fuck yea. Hope this is the start of a trend."
In response to Reply # 97


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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natenate101
Member since Apr 21st 2015
679 posts
Fri Apr-17-20 03:34 PM

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99. "Good for Cuomo man, hit em."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Thought this was a concise reminder of how Trump has shit the bed and made us more vulnerable. https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1251224408959651840

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Sat Apr-18-20 11:47 AM

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103. "Florida man is gonna kill us all. Beaches are packed"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1251260796476305409?s=19

_______________________________________

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Sat Apr-18-20 02:05 PM

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104. "RE: Florida man is gonna kill us all. Beaches are packed"
In response to Reply # 103


          

Well, Trump said he would leave it up to the states. So each state is going to do it’s own thing, even if it’s dangerous. His refusal to implement a federal restriction order for all states is what has created this mess. Now he keeps flip flopping. Had he implemented a rule from the jump, all states would be in order.

I love what the tri state governors are doing. They are going to work together to reopen their states, as well as most of the Midwest Governors. It makes sense, considering the proximity of each state to one another, and with citizens routinely crossing each other’s borders.

If i were a neighboring state to Florida, I would definitely close off the border to Floridians.

This is going to create a lot of division.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Sat Apr-18-20 07:08 PM

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107. "But Floridians are not the ones spreading the virus, though. "
In response to Reply # 104


          

That would New Yorkers, New Jerseyites and Michiganders.


>If i were a neighboring state to Florida, I would definitely
>close off the border to Floridians.
>
>This is going to create a lot of division.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Sat Apr-18-20 07:36 PM

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108. "RE: But Floridians are not the ones spreading the virus, though. "
In response to Reply # 107
Sat Apr-18-20 07:38 PM by allStah

          

If Florida is doing something opposite than what the neighboring states want to do with the lockdown , then the move would be to close borders

The point is all states are not on the same page, and Florida isn’t workin with neighboring states. ( to my knowledge). That’s my point.

It’s a shit show, because there isn’t any federal guidance. And considering Florida has a lot of retirement communities, you would think they would be more cautious.

The whole point is not to become a hotspot. We have witnessed what has happened to states and countries who relaxed or rejected lockdown orders.....see South Dakota and see Russia

  

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DJR
Member since Jan 01st 2005
18619 posts
Sun Apr-19-20 11:54 AM

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113. "25,000+ cases in Florida......that’s not exactly insignificant"
In response to Reply # 107


  

          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Sat Apr-18-20 05:39 PM

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106. "apparently there have been 6000+ deaths in the last 24 hrs."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://infection2020.com/
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV60895WkAAnpP0?format=png&name=large

trump set his 'good job' bar at 60-100k deaths. its looking like we will surpass both of those.

republican governors opening up their states right now would make it even worse.

  

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MikaDanteBrown
Member since Oct 01st 2005
6964 posts
Sat Apr-18-20 08:49 PM

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109. "I don't know about this one. I've been using this..."
In response to Reply # 106


          

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Mon Apr-20-20 08:02 AM

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115. "why aren’t these protesters being arrested? ITWABM/W"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Imagine a group of black protesters defying stay at home orders during a national crisis

Why aren’t they being arrested?

...and wtf does this have to do with the 2nd amendment...

WTF

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Mon Apr-20-20 10:01 AM

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117. "Even San Diego has the BULLSHIT"
In response to Reply # 115


          

I have to think it's because they are Republicans / extremists. There's ALWAYS Trump bullshit - 95 of the time there are pickup trucks with two USA flags in the back, 90% of the time there's a Gadsden flag, 80% there's a Trump 202 flag, 75% a Confederate flag, and 35% of the time it's just a flag with a swastika on it.

And the police always seem to sympathize with them in some way.

San Diego Protests here:

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/encinitas-residents-protest-trails-beach-closures/2309021/ <-This lady was upset her favorite trail was closed LAST WEDNESDAY.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/san-diegans-against-stay-at-home-order-protest-in-downtown/2308634/ <-NO IDEA WTF is wrong with these people.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4872 posts
Mon Apr-20-20 01:44 PM

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118. "We'd be gone if it was easier to do so"
In response to Reply # 115


          


Shit is fucking disgusting...

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
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Mon Apr-20-20 01:54 PM

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119. ""respect authority" "simple dont break the law""
In response to Reply # 115


  

          

by their own logic it should be 100% fine to shoot them

but there's that one tiny distinction

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Mon Apr-20-20 03:54 PM

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120. "Georgia folks, you going out and getting a cut on Friday?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

KEMP: This Friday allowing certain businesses to reopen:
Gyms
Fitness centers
Barbers
Hair dressers
Nail salons
Massage therapists.

https://twitter.com/ChristineOnTV/status/1252331703235985410?s=20

_______________________________________

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Mon Apr-20-20 06:55 PM

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122. "I'm old enough to remember when Brian Kemp was the last motherfucker on ..."
In response to Reply # 120
Mon Apr-20-20 06:58 PM by navajo joe

          

that didn't understand that asymptomatic people could spread the disease... three weeks ago

I wouldn't trust that cracker to re-open a ziploc bag

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5818 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 08:28 AM

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124. "Lmao!"
In response to Reply # 122


          

Please say hello to you mom for me.

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 08:05 AM

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123. "forget all that! what about Magic City?!"
In response to Reply # 120


          

>KEMP: This Friday allowing certain businesses to reopen:
>Gyms
>Fitness centers
>Barbers
>Hair dressers
>Nail salons
>Massage therapists.
>
>https://twitter.com/ChristineOnTV/status/1252331703235985410?s=20

  

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CherNic
Member since Aug 18th 2005
37156 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 10:24 AM

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127. "hell the fuck no"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

Cases in Fulton county still rising....have we even peaked in our first wave to talk about a second wave? And we want to open some of the least distanced/least sanitary places? Fucking idiot governor

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 10:30 AM

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129. "I'm not going to a barbershop until there's a vaccine"
In response to Reply # 120


  

          

Giving myself the corona ceasar cut at home until then

Too close quarters, physical contact, possible skin breaks

I'm wondering, how the fuck you get a haircut while wearing a mask

I'm resigned to not going to the barber until there's a vaccine
+restaurants, bars, concerts, sporting events

...and those are YUGE sacrifices for me as they are my favorite things to do...

But I recently accepted the fact that normal life for me won't happen until there is a vaccine...which is at least a year away

SMH@people risking their lives for haircuts

Fuck that.

---------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't understand it without an explanation

you can't understand it with an explanation

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 06:23 PM

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145. "This is fucking infuriating."
In response to Reply # 120


          

What people often don't realize is that these stay at home orders have provided protection to ECONOMICALLY vulnerable people, not just physically vulnerable people.

When there's a stay-at-home order in place, businesses can make insurance claims over the fact that they're not legally allowed to be open, through no fault of their own. Furloughed workers can draw unemployment (inadequate, but better than nothing).

Once this is lifted, businesses have no legal cover; they either have to reopen or go out of business. If they reopen, furloughed workers can't draw unemployment anymore, they HAVE to risk their lives and go to work, or ASK to be fired so that they can draw unemployment again.

And nobody's gonna go into these businesses anyway. Certainly not enough to keep them from hemorrhaging income, particularly if they have to pay staff again.

It makes the economic situation worse, AND it makes the public health situation much worse.

My brother lives in Atlanta and has a heart condition. He'll be fine. He's a lawyer. He'll be working from home for the foreseeable future. A lot of people don't have that power, and they'll be forced to choose between health (their own and the public), and starvation.

I honestly hope Brian Kemp gets the bug and has a really rough time with it, just so he knows to take this fucking seriously.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24411 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 06:49 PM

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148. "Though exceptions and laws are being made, this actually isn't true ..."
In response to Reply # 145
Wed Apr-22-20 06:51 PM by Brew

          

>When there's a stay-at-home order in place, businesses can
>make insurance claims over the fact that they're not legally
>allowed to be open, through no fault of their own. Furloughed
>workers can draw unemployment (inadequate, but better than
>nothing).

I work in insurance - what you speak of is called "business interruption insurance" which is a type of coverage that *used* to cover epidemics and pandemics under your typical commercial liability insurance. But after the SARS outbreak in the early aughts, insurance companies (in typical asshole insurance carrier fashion) started considering pandemics and epidemics add-ons or "endorsements" to their general coverages, and could therefore jack up premiums for those add-ons. So a lot of companies (specifically small businesses) have been either unwilling or unable to pay for this endorsement and therefore, aren't covered for this "business interruption".

It's fucked up shit but that's how the insurance industry works, sadly.

Thankfully, a lot of state legislatures (California being one, obviously) are basically forcing insurance companies that operate in their states to cover these companies' losses. Specifically small companies. So there is some recourse, depending on where you live/operate your business.

But it's not a foregone conclusion. And I can't imagine GA is one of the states referenced above ha.

EDIT: come to think of it, maybe you are speaking specifically about GA, in which case you may know better than me whether or not they are one of the states forcing insurance carriers to cover these losses. My response is, obviously, about this type of coverage in general.

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 07:12 PM

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150. "Thanks for the insight. You definitely know more about this than I do."
In response to Reply # 148


          


All I know is that one of my brother's friends runs a restaurant in Atlanta and was planning on filing for interruption insurance, so yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Maybe things are different in GA (like you, I'm skeptical). Maybe for some reason he was paying for that extra coverage. Or maybe he just wouldn't have had a payable claim. If so, I'd say it's the state's responsibility to step in and regulate their fucking insurance industry, like you're saying. Or better yet, the federal government should be doing more to keep these businesses afloat while they have to stay closed.

People think of this as a "balancing act." But that's a bad analogy. There is ONLY ONE WAY right now to stop this spread -- shutting down nonessential businesses. There are other ways (especially in a nation that controls the world's reserve currency) to mitigate the economic damage. It doesn't have to be one or the other, and the fact that people are phrasing it that way is a statement of how little people care about public health.

  

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ThaTruth
Charter member
99998 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 08:29 AM

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125. "My latest conspiracy theory is this whole "Open Up America!" movement..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

is directly tied to the data that people of color are being infected and dying at a significantly disproportionate rate and how those people generally vote.



  

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soulpsychodelicyde
Member since Nov 18th 2003
12147 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 09:40 AM

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126. "I don't know that I'd classify that as a 'conspiracy theory'"
In response to Reply # 125


          

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 10:29 AM

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128. "I don't believe this at all"
In response to Reply # 125


          

There are more cost effective ways to target people of color.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38812 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 11:42 AM

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130. "I dont think it's as much planned"
In response to Reply # 125


  

          

as it is tied to how certain white people think about the virus vs the cost of human lives

Oh its mostly them? We need to open up!

  

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Cocobrotha2
Charter member
10883 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 03:39 PM

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132. "Nah, they've been organizing these things for a little while"
In response to Reply # 125


          

I don't think the data motivated these things but they're certainly less concerned about the ramifications if it's black people getting hurt disproportionately.

<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 04:31 PM

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133. "Yup!"
In response to Reply # 125


          

Once that data came out about american hispanics and blacks, trump pushed a whole different tune after flipping in the first place.




  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 11:17 PM

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135. "they openly talk about it in right wing circles."
In response to Reply # 125


          

the same way replacement theory became a foundation of right wing nativism and authoritarianism in formalized politics worldwide.

their politics are driven by a mixture of veiled corporate interests (which their base is too dumb to recognize) and acute racial/cultural utterances (war on christmas, bathroom bills, etc). the coronavirus provides them an opportunity to attend to both.

i dont think people grasp just how nihilistic the current conservative movement is. literally theyve abandoned every other principle but inflicting pain/hardship/death on anyone they can (even themselves).

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 09:05 AM

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137. "think about how this affects unemployment filing"
In response to Reply # 125


          

so your job opens back up and you say 'nope, staying home not safe' can you file for unemployment if they fire you?

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 06:35 PM

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146. "I see it like Romney's "47%" comment."
In response to Reply # 125


          


Or whatever the number was.

Few of them will say, even to themselves, "we don't care about 'those people,' let them die." Poor people, black people, old people, ...

But it doesn't change the fact that they simply DON'T care about the people most vulnerable to this. The most reliable Republican voters will be able to work from home just fine no matter what happens.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 07:05 PM

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149. "voters 65+ seem to be reacting negatively to all of this."
In response to Reply # 146


          

a lot of recent polls have biden up in that demo. and not by slim margins.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 07:21 PM

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151. "Yeah I saw some stories to that effect this morning."
In response to Reply # 149


          


Curious to see what happens in Florida and Arizona, in this cycle and beyond.

I'm never gonna say that this pandemic has any kind of silver lining. But some of the things that are gonna happen in the next six months will be pretty damn hard for even Mr Trump to spin his way through.

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5818 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 03:15 PM

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131. "Kemp is a dick for reopening but it’s on US not to patronize those pla..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

It HAS to be on us to not patronize those spots if we don’t want to die...We can blame Kemp all we want for legalizing things but we can’t say he forced us to go get that shape up or those nails done or hair did.

Just say no y’all.

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 04:48 PM

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141. "The Real Reason for Gov. Kemp's Reopening of Georgia"
In response to Reply # 131


  

          

https://twitter.com/DavidMasterson6/status/1252770923008016384

https://threader.app/thread/1252770923008016384

The Real Reason for Gov. Kemp's Reopening of Georgia
Written by George Chidi:

“You really want to know what I think about rescinding shelter in place in the way this order is structured?

/1

It's about making sure people can't file unemployment. It isn't about saving lives, certainly. It's not about the peak of the curve. I think lots of people are going to ignore the governor and stay home regardless. This isn't a decision being driven by epidemiology. /2

It's the rawest and most lethal of political decisions, and it will kill people.

Kemp is looking forward to the fiscal discussion in 2021 and 2022, when all of this really starts to hit. He got elected by out-yahooing the field./3

His base has been trained to view government spending as a crime, and he knows that he becomes politically vulnerable to an attack if he raises taxes. He is not capable of delivering a nuanced message around necessity, because his base doesn't know how to hear it.

/4

The state is staring at one million unemployment applications. It probably cannot pay those over six months. The unemployment fund has a reserve of about $2.6 billion. Last week it paid out about $42 million -- which is about three times as much as it usually does./5

That figure will double in two weeks, give or take. Maybe more.

At that rate, the fund is empty in about 28 weeks. Probably less. Even if things improve later, that fund will run dry in a year, because unemployment isn't going to return to 5 percent for a long time.

/6

Georgians did the Kansas thing a couple of years ago and instituted a hard constitutional limit on income taxes of 6 percent. It cannot go higher without amending the state constitution. What that means is that there's no easy mechanism for the state to accommodate an /7

extraordinary expense, like this, without somehow telling Republican reactionaries that they must raise taxes.

Those reactionaries are the ones who will be protesting in front of the state house Friday, when this order goes into effect.

/8

If there's no state order calling for businesses to be closed, the people who are unemployed can no longer claim that their unemployment is involuntary, even if it would be utter idiocy for them to return to work./9

A hair dresser or a massage therapist cannot maintain social distance. But they can certainly file for relief ... unless the law says they can work.

"Gyms, fitness centers, bowling alleys, body art studios, barbers, cosmetologists, hair designers, nail care artists,/10

estheticians, their respective schools & massage therapists."

Not banks. Not software firms. Not factories. Not schools.

It is no coincidence that the businesses on this list are staffed by relatively poor people. Because that's who he wants off the unemployment rolls./11

And if they die ... well, they're mostly black people, or Asian, and poor, and an acceptable political loss for a Republican governor.

The purpose of this isn't to open up these businesses. It's to get the workers there off the dole. Work, and die. Or don't work .../12

but you're on your own. Because we can't raise taxes to cover the time you spent trying to save your life and the lives of the people around you.”
/13x

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24411 posts
Tue Apr-21-20 09:46 PM

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134. "Crazy twitter thread about the "Anti-Mask League" in 1918/1919"
In response to Reply # 0


          

So ... we always been dumb as fucking fuck huh

https://twitter.com/timkmak/status/1251936242834563073?s=21

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 05:17 AM

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136. "we have reached the part where repubs are now accusing nurses"
In response to Reply # 0


          

of being crisis actors.

https://twitter.com/kelliwardaz/status/1252610512187056128

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38812 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 12:21 PM

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139. "why wont they show their faces? *hmm emoji*"
In response to Reply # 136


  

          

first thing i thought when i saw those photos were that they were gonna be accused of not being real

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 11:30 AM

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138. "theyre officially throwing alex azar under the bus."
In response to Reply # 0


          

via rupert murdochs rag.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/health-chiefs-early-missteps-set-back-coronavirus-response-11587570514

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 03:33 PM

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140. "Mayor of Las Vegas offers her citizens up as tribute (vid)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Says she offered to have Las Vegas serve as a control but was turned down by statisticians. That was just one of the many bat shit crazy things she said in her interview.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1253041723510587394?s=09

_______________________________________

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 04:51 PM

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142. "Let the record show; IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC, Congress is on"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed Apr-22-20 05:13 PM by bentagain

  

          

recess

Can’t just blame repugs at this point

Pelosi won’t save you.

...out here parroting voter fraud conspiracy theories...

Fucking shameful!

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wxe9dw/why-is-congress-on-recess-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic


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handle
Charter member
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Wed Apr-22-20 05:47 PM

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143. "Dude,I know watching KLAN vs Foodies rallies and smoking weed on Vice.co..."
In response to Reply # 142


          

Check the fucking date of the article. April 2nd.

The FUCKIGN REPUBLICANS have been throwing a SHIT FIT about it - it's not that Nancy and Chuck are against it completely - they are willing to look at it - but they concerned that it could be abused outside pandemic times.

Also she's been supportive of voice votes - which the fucking extremist Republicans have squashed.

They are going to hash out what Remote Voting is and if proxy voting will be allowed - but it's going to be as bitterly partisan as everything is now.


From TODAY:
https://www.vox.com/2020/4/22/21230939/debate-around-remote-voting-in-house-explained

A push for proxy voting in the US House of Representatives during the age of coronavirus has been postponed — for now.

*After an outcry from Republicans,* <-look for this line in the next paragraph.

*After an outcry from Republicans,* House Speaker Nancy Pelosi canceled a planned Thursday vote on a resolution to allow remote voting-by-proxy proposed by House Rules Committee Chairman Jim McGovern. Had the resolution passed, it would have been an unprecedented change — House rules say that members shall be present to vote — in keeping with the unprecedented challenges of the novel coronavirus outbreak.

Instead, Pelosi announced Wednesday on a caucus phone call that a bipartisan group will consider ways to do remote voting and committee work, to allow Congress to social distance during the pandemic.

Proxy voting is the act of allowing members of Congress to cast votes on behalf of those who can’t be there in person, in this case because of Covid-19 concerns. While initially reluctant to entertain remote voting, Pelosi recently signaled openness to proxy voting in the midst of the pandemic.

But after a letter from House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) asking for “a clear, safe and effective plan for reopening Congress,” Pelosi decided to wait longer for bipartisan consensus on a plan.

The House wasn’t planning to use proxy voting to pass an interim funding bill containing billions of dollars for small businesses slated for Thursday. While leadership is encouraging every member who can safely vote present to return to the Capitol Hill, they were initially hoping to separately pass the proxy-voting resolution as a contingency plan for future votes.

“We are asking every Member to return who can return. And we hope that that is a large number,” House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) told reporters on Tuesday, adding over half of its members are expected to be present for the vote. “We’re not ordering members to come back. We do expect sufficient members to come back so we can have a quorum.”

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 05:59 AM

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157. "Weird that you cut the 2nd half of that article "
In response to Reply # 143


  

          

Where there is clear opposition from Pelosi on REMOTE voting using teleconference applications

?

What does the date of the article have to do with the information?

Are you saying they didn’t recess for almost the entire month of April?

We’re in month 2 of social distancing...and there’s still no plans for remote voting

You did see where primary voters in Wisconsin contracted covid...?

It’s fucking shameful that people have to risk their lives to cast votes

Both in Congress and the public.

It’s hilarisad how easily we’ve moved to remote working and communicating in our professions, where possible

But our leaders can’t.

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handle
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Thu Apr-23-20 10:55 AM

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161. "The date's IMPORTNAT BECAUSE THE INFORMATION CHANGED BRO"
In response to Reply # 157


          

>Where there is clear opposition from Pelosi on REMOTE voting
>using teleconference applications

So YOU START OUT SAYING "they are complete against remote voting in any form any time anywhere" AND THEN YOU CHANGE TO "..Using remote teleconference applications."


>We’re in month 2 of social distancing...and there’s still
>no plans for remote voting

So yesterday Pelosi introduced a specific, implementable plan - and THE REPUBLICANS THROUGH A SHIT FIT.

The plan was completed SEVEN DAYS AGO:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/16/jim-mcgovern-proxy-voting-congress-190987

>You did see where primary voters in Wisconsin contracted
>covid...?

So you move to mail-in voting here. YOU KNOW WHO'S AGAINST THAT?? THE FUCKING REPUBLICANS. THEY AREN'T EVEN IN FAVOR OF THE FUCKING POSTAL SYSTEM BRO.

The Democratic governor on Wisconsin canceled the election and then the Republicans brought it to the Supreme court where THE REPUBLICANS on the court said "It must go on, even if you catch the fucking plague."

(Moved this down since it was a non sequitur)
>Are you saying they didn’t recess for almost the entire
>month of April?

Yes they did. Do you think having all of them in a room would have made the policy decisions more possible? Leadership in both parties are working on bills - having all of them in the room at the same time wouldn't help.

So you know what happened - they passed a bill in the Senate that THE HOUSE IS VOTING ON TODAY. And the leaderships wants it to be a VOICE VOTE so congress people don't have to fly back to vote on it.

And you know who could fuck it up? Any of the people you wanted to be sequester together during the pandemic.


>It’s fucking shameful that people have to risk their lives
>to cast votes
>
>Both in Congress and the public.

Wow, you're really super woke here.



>It’s hilarisad how easily we’ve moved to remote working
>and communicating in our professions, where possible
>
>But our leaders can’t.

Yes, your job and the congress of united states are EXACTLY THE SAME. I get it. They should facetime in - what could go wrong?


AND I AM IN FAVOR OF A WORKABLE REMOTE VOTING SYSTEM, ESPECIALLY DURING TIMES OF CRISIS. (probably ONLY in those times.)

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 06:15 AM

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173. "vote by proxy scrapped...congress is still in recess "
In response to Reply # 161


  

          

Today is April 24th

What am I missing here?

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handle
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Fri Apr-24-20 11:43 AM

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178. "The house passed the bill YESTERDAY before you replied"
In response to Reply # 173


          

1)Vote by proxy scrapped.

Is that Pelosi's fault? When she introduced a bill AND THE REPUBLICANS THERE A GODDAMN SHIT FIT????????????? SHE HAD TO TABLE IT BECAUSE REPUBLICANS STRONGLY OBJECT.


2)Being in recess stops bills from being presented or voted on?

BECAUSE THEY PASSED THE FUCKING BILL YESTERDAY.


So I think I get what's in your mind.

1)Call the House of Representatives back into active session.
2)Have the congress people fly/drive/bike back.
3)They all sit down.
4)They say the pledge of allegiance and salute the flag.

5)They come up with bills that address the issues, call for votes, have the good ones pass and the bad ones not pass and send them to the Senate who takes them as good faith policies, debates the merits of the bills, passes the good ones, rejects the bad ones, and sends it to the president who signs it into law without a signing statement that directly contradicts it.

You haven't bee paying attention - because THE REPUBLICANS WILL NEVER ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.

Now in the past, say in 1968, in a time of crisis would the parties come together and do good for the country?? Yes.

Hasn't been that was since 1994 when Gingrich took over.

And yes I know things have always been fucked - there's also been graft and pork on BOTH SIDES, but things changed in 1994 - and they ain't going back.

What changed? The Republicans.


------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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bentagain
Member since Mar 19th 2008
16595 posts
Thu Apr-30-20 06:42 AM

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207. "they still on recess?"
In response to Reply # 178


  

          

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 06:16 PM

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144. "trump threw brian kemp under the bus lol"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1253090056442654721

this dude aint taking responsibility for nathannn. he aint even backing people who do the exact shit he wanted them to do.

i feel bad for anyone who pushed chloroquine under his orders. cuz down the line dude is gonna act like he wasnt fully on board and prolly even suggest they should be investigated and sued lol.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 08:39 PM

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153. "trump praised kemp behind the scenes on tuesday"
In response to Reply # 144


          

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1253116603652288513
-----
Pres. Trump and VP Pence called Georgia Gov. Kemp on Tuesday and expressed support and praise for the move to reopen businesses starting Friday, a source says. Trump later said the opposite -- that he told Kemp he disagreed "strongly" with the decision.

https://t.co/EVwuCVzs6b
-----

the reason this leaked so quickly is because kemps team leaked it.

the reason kemps team leaked it is because they have it recorded/documented to back it up.

the reason they have it recorded/documented to back it up is because...just like cuomo, hogan, the govs on conference calls, etc...everybody knows not to trust the president to tell the truth in public. even his own party members.

dude is literally lying about (and getting called out by) everything/everyone now. governors, his own admin personnel, etc.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13928 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 08:59 PM

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154. "How do you know Kemp’s team recorded this? I do believe they leaked it"
In response to Reply # 153


          

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 09:55 PM

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156. "because everyone records trump lol."
In response to Reply # 154


          

this is why we have a constant stream of leaked audio feeds, memos, etc. recently.

if a source is leaking to the press within hours of trumps comments...and the source is instantly deemed credible (and corroborated by another party just as quickly)...they were already prepared for this (and willing to publicly dispute it). they got the goods.

pretty sure even sean hannity keeps evidence on trump at this point.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 08:27 PM

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152. "the chyron: "
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWPrNLRWAAQg8OP?format=jpg&name=medium

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
4667 posts
Wed Apr-22-20 09:07 PM

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155. "CNN is kinda wilding right now"
In response to Reply # 152


  

          

From sending niggas in there to get into shouting matches with the president, to the latest chyrons.

They stoking the flames for ratings.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 06:28 AM

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158. "everything is flopping for republicans."
In response to Reply # 0


          

americans views on shutdowns, reopenings, protests, etc couldnt be more clear.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWR_zYRXkAM9sEf?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWSMjEYX0AE-OIu?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWSMjEaWkAAaK38?format=jpg&name=large

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 08:39 AM

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160. "all job gains created after the great recession are now gone."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Apr-23-20 08:40 AM by Reeq

          

https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1253301367067869185

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 12:13 PM

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163. "Elizabeth Warren lost her brother."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Apr-23-20 12:20 PM by stravinskian

          

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1253332675315724289

Don't read the responses if you want to have a high opinion of our species.

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38812 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 06:44 PM

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168. "damn. and i skimmed a minute knowing what to expect"
In response to Reply # 163


  

          

it's never exactly shocking but it's pretty depressing.

>https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1253332675315724289
>
>Don't read the responses if you want to have a high opinion of
>our species.
>

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24411 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 12:25 PM

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164. "Cuomo ethers Cocaine Mitch."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1253358477415788548?s=20

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Mafamaticks
Member since Jan 12th 2004
4667 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 02:19 PM

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165. "Fred the Godson passed from COVID"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

shit is wild out here man.

RIP

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 04:46 PM

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167. "Damn I remember seeing a couple of weeks ago he had turned for the worse"
In response to Reply # 165


          

and was hoping no news was good news.

That's so sad man. Damn.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 03:35 PM

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166. "Rest in peace, Fred The Godson. :("
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Apr-23-20 04:03 PM by Shaun Tha Don

          

Dude had some sick wordplay.

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 09:53 PM

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169. "Trump bout to have folks injecting Lysol & cooking themselves in tanning..."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Apr-23-20 10:00 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

*Trump whisper* what do you have to lose


Starts with an official presenting the effects of heat and disinfectants on the virus on surfaces and in the air
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1253447245380440065?s=19


Trump misunderstands that and riffs about hitting bodies with tremendous light and injecting disinfectants to clean the virus out of the lungs
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1253448500676898818?s=09

Then he tries to rope Dr. Birx into it. She moonwalks away lol
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1253455239044308993?s=09

Dr Birx reaction in real time. Trying to disappear into her scarf lol:
https://twitter.com/NC5PhilWilliams/status/1253487743046385670?s=09

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/4/23/21233628/trump-disinfectant-injections-sunlight-coronavirus-briefing

_______________________________________

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 10:39 PM

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170. "hypothetically...lets say that these people were trying to kill everyone..."
In response to Reply # 169


          

one way or another...

would they be doing anything differently than they are now?

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5818 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 10:43 PM

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171. "Birx finally fed up: "
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/nc5philwilliams/status/1253487743046385670?s=21

Tomorrow’s press conference is gonna be wild because the first question from anyone will be to Birx or Fauci and what they think of this bleach bullshit

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Thu Apr-23-20 11:21 PM

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172. "If ANYONE you knows supports him then GHOST THEM"
In response to Reply # 171


          

And anyone who tells you that "both sides are the same."

Fuck them.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5818 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 08:46 AM

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175. "Word "
In response to Reply # 172


          

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 07:36 AM

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174. "Birx & Fauci just won't be there until the next news cycle."
In response to Reply # 171


          


Probably Monday. That's Trump's usual trick. He's gonna say some other dumb shit today that Birx & Fauci might be more willing to dance around for him on Monday.

That or Trump will come out today and furiously insist he'd been misquoted. Some reporter will read it back to him word for word. He'll say the reporter is wrong, call them names. Then the story becomes 'Trump picks fight with reporter,' which is much more manageable than 'Trump suggests injecting bleach.'

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5818 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 08:46 AM

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176. "Truly hate to say it but you might be right. "
In response to Reply # 174


          

  

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Nopayne
Member since Jan 03rd 2003
52627 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 12:14 PM

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179. "Trump is a master at this shit"
In response to Reply # 174


  

          

He is really playing that next level troll game and everyone falls for it every time.

I don't think that he is as aggressively dumb enough to believe this whole thing. He is just controlling the entire narrative.

---
Love,
Nopayne

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 01:03 PM

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182. "Looks like he's going with option 2."
In response to Reply # 174


          

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 12:16 PM

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180. "His statement on bleach"
In response to Reply # 171


          

"So supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful, light — and I think you said that hasn’t been checked but you’re going to test it — and then I said suppose you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting.

Then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. Is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside? Or almost a cleaning, ‘cause you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it’d be interesting to check that. So you’re going to have to use medical doctors but it sounds interesting to me, so we’ll see but the whole concept of the light. The way it kills it in one minute, that’s pretty powerful."

-Donald J. Trump, President of the United States 04/23/2020

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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BlakStaar
Member since May 29th 2002
1261 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 10:56 PM

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187. "RE: His statement on bleach"
In response to Reply # 180


  

          

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_XbiTrJFpf/

I AM DECEASED.

And shout out to Pete Rock for posting.

--
"Music is not to be possessed; it's to be shared.” - James Mtume

"Just stay loose, keep it raw, and bang ya drums out sometimes." - Madlib

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24411 posts
Sat Apr-25-20 09:32 PM

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195. "Yea this was classic. The "me ?!" cracked me up."
In response to Reply # 187


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28839 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 11:14 AM

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177. "Cuomo just dared McConnell to allow states..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

... to declare bankruptcy. He dared him to pursue the legislation, pass it, and have the President sign it.

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 12:44 PM

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181. "Trump RE disinfectants: It was just jokes....I was foolin y'all"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Apr-24-20 12:45 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

President Trump says remarks about heat, light, disinfectant were sarcastic: "I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters like you just to see what would happen."
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1253734108448120834?s=20


"It didn't seem like it was coming off as sarcastic when he was talking and turning to Dr. Birx on the side," Fox News anchor Bret Baier said on air after Trump's walk-back was reported.

_______________________________________

  

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luminous
Charter member
12475 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 01:28 PM

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183. "wow!"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

--
Sometimes you have to look reality in the face and say 'No!'
-Ben (Reaper)

If you need any help, don't. Hesitate to ask.

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38812 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 05:18 PM

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184. "so best case scenario and every benefit of the doubt"
In response to Reply # 181


  

          

he's cracking jokes about treatment for the virus that killed 50,000 americans in the last 2 months.

  

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Brew
Member since Nov 23rd 2002
24411 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 09:29 PM

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186. "^ word."
In response to Reply # 184


          

----------------------------------------

"Fuck aliens." © WarriorPoet415

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Fri Apr-24-20 05:57 PM

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185. "Well, Nebraska to tentatively begin re-opening May 4th."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Restaurants will move to 50% capacity, no bar seating, all staff must wear masks and gloves, no table larger than 6, and no tables within 6 feet. Salons, tattoo/massage parlors will also open with use of masks.

The initial reaction from most unemployed service industry workers I know is incredibly negative, with most assuming this is really a ploy by the state government to get out from under its unemployment benefits load (many people I know have not received a single payment in over 6 weeks) and force people back to work who are making more money on unemployment than they'd expect to back at work. In some cases, like cooks, making a significantly higher income.

Additionally, I've seen a lot of people worried that allowing customers into the restaurant will significantly increase exposure for the staff, and thus they not only won't be dining in but will discontinue ordering out as well.

I'd say about 80% of the social media feedback I've seen is strongly negative, and this is a state that's as Red as it gets.

  

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LES
Member since Oct 17th 2006
4533 posts
Sat Apr-25-20 07:19 AM

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188. "according to conservatives, trust these two random doctor's from Bakersf..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

how long until this shit ends up on Fox and eventually Trump's ears?

https://youtu.be/xfLVxx_lBLU

__________
http://leswrite.com/

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sat Apr-25-20 08:47 AM

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190. "Fucking creeps."
In response to Reply # 188


          

Yeah, this kind of talk is gonna get bigger and bigger. I've seen a lot of otherwise very smart (and supposedly lefty) people fall for this. I'm surprised we haven't seen more of it here.

And they could very well turn out to be right. The problem is, we don't have good enough data yet to honestly judge these questions. They're not saying it like this, but these guys want us to roll the dice on something that could potentially kill millions of people.

Nobody disputes that the death count will be exponentially correlated with our control measures. And nobody disputes that it takes at least two weeks to find out if we've loosened up too far. So what these guys are really saying is: people are out of work, we don't want the government to have to cover so much unemployment, so let's just forget about the disease and hope for the best.

I'm so fucking tired of hearing people say "we need to follow the science" and then immediately report the preliminary data that they cherry-picked specifically to make the case they wanted to make from the start. (For the record, MDs are not scientists. You should never trust an MD to make a scientific case. Or any individual actual scientist, for that matter.)

A lot of these arguments rest on some measurements of Santa Clara County and LA County that the whole community immediately recognized as fatally flawed.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/experts-demolish-studies-suggesting-covid-19-is-no-worse-than-flu/

By the researchers' OWN estimates, their data was consistent with all their seropositive cases being false-positive. So they basically haven't measured anything at all. This episode will be a textbook example of bad statistics for the next 50 years. And yet we still get to hear how "Stanford scientists have shown that we don't need social distancing!"

The whole thing is a direct echo of the bullshit arguments we've heard against 'climate alarmism' or 'HIV alarmism' for our entire lives.

A little bit of knowledge can do a hell of a lot of harm.

  

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handle
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Sat Apr-25-20 12:23 PM

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191. "What are they saying??"
In response to Reply # 188


          

A synopsis for a video??? I watched for 3 minutes and the dude said nothing. So off he goes.


I found this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/g731sd/dr_erickson_covid19_briefing/

So these docs are saying it's not that bad and that you should just let everyone go outside and those who die will die - then we'll have herd immunity - and it won't be bad - just like the same or a little mroe than the flu kills.

And he's using data from the past few months to compare to flu data for a year.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sat Apr-25-20 01:01 PM

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192. "The argument (and it could be true, just way premature),"
In response to Reply # 191
Sat Apr-25-20 01:03 PM by stravinskian

          

is that the disease is killing a lot of people because it's hugely infectious, not because it's particularly dangerous to those who get it. So supposedly a huge number of people have gotten it but only a tiny fraction of that big number have died.

This wouldn't mean it's not a problem. But it could conceivably mean that social distancing is pointless. If we're all gonna get it, and a few hundred thousand people are gonna die from it no matter what we do, then by shutting down the economy we're just delaying the inevitable. We should suck it up and let it burn itself out.

At least that's the closest thing to a rational argument. (The data on this is veerry sketchy at this point, which they never admit.) Unfortunately it also travels in the same conspiracy theory world as 'covid19 is a hoax!', or 'only fat and old people are at risk' (as if such people don't matter), or 'it's just the flu,' or 'vodka will disinfect your throat.' So even if it turns out there's something to it it really shouldn't be dignified with as much attention as it'll get.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Sat Apr-25-20 01:21 PM

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193. "i havent watched the video but do they consider"
In response to Reply # 192
Sat Apr-25-20 01:24 PM by Reeq

          

that the numbers arent completely catastrophic precisely because much of the world basically shut down?

without the shutdowns...the death toll would be dramatically worse. not only would you have an increase in the 1st layer of infection...but with an overwhelmed health system...theres less life saving treatment available in ratio to those infected (spiking the rate of death). then you have those indirect deaths where people at the hospital for other life threatening ailments might miss out on emergency treatment too (shortage of beds, available staff, etc).

basically italy.

  

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stravinskian
Member since Feb 24th 2003
12698 posts
Sat Apr-25-20 01:42 PM

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194. "Don't watch it. It's not worth your time."
In response to Reply # 193
Sat Apr-25-20 01:50 PM by stravinskian

          

I only skimmed it, but it's the same naive shit I've been arguing over with my sociologist cousin, who thinks he understands statistics better than the whole epidemiology community.

These guys are flexible on their conspiracy theories. If pushed, they'll admit that social distancing has slowed the outbreaks, and yes, that the outbreaks would be bigger (but briefer) if we went back to normal. But they still want to think there would be enough beds and ventilators if we 'lessened' the social distancing. They're remarkably vague (and inconsistent) about *how much* we can let up, fundamentally because they don't have any fucking idea. All they know is that right now we're probably doing more than we need to do, which isn't news to anyone, and to the extent it's news, it's good news, not bad news.

A few weeks ago, the argument was "In March the models said there'd be 200,000 deaths by August, now they're down to 60,000 deaths by August. How low will it have to go before these alarmists admit they were wrong?!" Meanwhile, we're now on track to hit those 60,000 deaths by the end of April.

It's a fast-moving analog of climate denial.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Tue Apr-28-20 08:13 AM

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201. "my nephew posted that dr erickson video in family group chat smh."
In response to Reply # 194


          

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5818 posts
Sat Apr-25-20 08:32 AM

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189. "Tyler Perry somehow someway has a sorta good idea to film his shows:"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.tmz.com/2020/04/25/tyler-perry-working-on-safe-way-to-reopen-atlanta-studio/

TMZ of course is right, what if a cast member has to leave to deal with a family medical emergency and yeah day players could be an issue but I’m low key impressed at this plan.

  

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Shaun Tha Don
Member since Nov 19th 2005
18289 posts
Sun Apr-26-20 03:50 AM

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196. "And now Scarface is on dialysis. "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Link: https://www.hot97.com/hip-hop-news/hot97-now/scarface-on-dialysis-after-covid-19-causes-kidney-failure/

Rest In Peace, Bad News Brown

  

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LAbeathustla
Member since Jan 24th 2004
33858 posts
Mon Apr-27-20 10:52 AM

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197. "Good interview with Face and Willie Dee (video)"
In response to Reply # 196


  

          



https://youtu.be/GeiCzEKMqak

------------------------------------
2019 CABG Survivor

2016 OK Survivor Champion

be about it or be without it

RIP GOATs

  

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Numba_33
Charter member
19321 posts
Mon Apr-27-20 11:20 AM

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198. "New Yorker article about New York's response"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

to the corona virus compared to Seattle's. Article is a bit too long to copy and paste, so here's the link: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/05/04/seattles-leaders-let-scientists-take-the-lead-new-yorks-did-not

"Sean sparks like John Starks, nah, Sean ball like John Wall" - Rest In Power Forever Sean Price.

  

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handle
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18937 posts
Mon Apr-27-20 02:02 PM

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199. "Does your town have COVID deniers protesting?"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Apr-27-20 02:02 PM by handle

          

San Deigo does - and on the coast, just not inland.

https://timesofsandiego.com/politics/2020/04/26/protesters-in-pacific-beach-call-covid-19-a-lie-while-others-strike-back/

https://twitter.com/MHoffmam/status/1254566481834065920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1254575138197999617&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftimesofsandiego.com%2Fpolitics%2F2020%2F04%2F26%2Fprotesters-in-pacific-beach-call-covid-19-a-lie-while-others-strike-back%2F <-pictures

4/27/2020
Protesters with signs such as “COVID is a LIE” and “PB IS OPEN” gathered Sunday near a lifeguard station in Pacific Beach to protest state and county stay-home orders and beach closures in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

At least 200 people rallied with U.S. flags and protest signs next to the PB Shore Club at 4343 Ocean Blvd., most not following social distancing orders or wearing facial coverings.

Two police motorcycle officers circled the area with dozens of officers patrolling on foot, mostly keeping roadways clear.

The protest, dubbed “A Day of Liberty San Diego Freedom Rally,” was organized by Naomi Soria, who organized last week’s downtown San Diego rally. (A group chanted: “We are Naomi.”)

A protester with a sign joins hundreds of people in Pacific Beach calling for an end to stay-at-home orders.
Hundreds of people in Pacific Beach called for an end to stay-at-home orders. Photo by Chris Stone
It was not immediately known whether anyone was cited for violating the stay-at-home order or congregating on a closed beach.
The protest began at 1 p.m. and people started to leave the area near the lifeguard tower after about half an hour, gathering at the corner of Mission Boulevard and Grand Avenue.

The Rev. Shane Harris, whose call for citations led to a move to charge April 18 rally organizer Soria, reacted to a sign he saw Sunday in Pacific Beach likening stay-at-home orders to slavery.

“I’m sorry but slavery is a far reach for social distancing,” tweeted Harris, leader of the People’s Alliance for Justice. “Don’t compare your protests for a beach opening up to our fight for basic human dignity.”

Also Sunday, the group Showing Up for Racial Justice San Diego issued a statement critical of the protests.

“Make no mistake — the bulk of these people are members of extremist groups that are taking advantage of this moment to advance their political agenda,” said Blair Overstreet, a leader of the group — part of a national network “that educates and mobilizes white people in the collective fight for racial and economic justice.”

“These same organizations and participants have been the drivers behind anti-LGBTQ+, anti-Muslim, and anti-vaxx protests, both locally and statewide,” Overstreet said. “These very small, local protests have been encouraged and amplified by organizers that then bring people in from all over the state, traveling to each of these rallies, and bringing vulnerable people into their cause.”

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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SuiteLady
Member since Oct 19th 2004
16194 posts
Tue Apr-28-20 07:51 AM

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200. "These stories about dogs and cats having COVID-19 make me think"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

"How did a dog/cat get a test when there are humans out here who can't get tests!?"

♥ Inescapably Me ♥

"Love is never any better than the lover" Toni Morrison (The Bluest Eye)

  

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CyrenYoung
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Tue Apr-28-20 03:03 PM

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202. "if they don't, even more lives could be unnecessarily @ risk..."
In response to Reply # 200


  

          

..There's no way around it.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Wed Apr-29-20 12:47 PM

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204. "RE: These stories about dogs and cats having COVID-19 make me think"
In response to Reply # 200


          

Animal blood samples go to animal testing labs. They don't go to human testing labs, so animal tests are not jumping over human tests that are waiting to be processed.

Human tests go to human test labs, and cannot be processed by animal test labs. So animal tests are not exhausting the resources of human test labs.

  

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ThaTruth
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99998 posts
Tue Apr-28-20 03:32 PM

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203. "nurse claims NY is 'murdering' COVID-19 patients by putting them on vent..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Nurse working on coronavirus frontline in New York claims the city is 'murdering' COVID-19 patients by putting them on ventilators and causing trauma to the lungs

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8262351/Nurse-New-York-claims-city-killing-COVID-19-patients-putting-ventilators.html

  

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handle
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18937 posts
Wed Apr-29-20 01:57 PM

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205. "Whitehouse release Cov-19 Commerciatve Coins "
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/product-p/covid-heroes.htm

#11 COIN IN HISTORIC MOMENTS COLLECTION: COVID-19 , WORLD VS THE UNSEEN ENEMY, EVERYDAY HEROES, PRESIDENT DONALD J, TRUMP, VICE PRESIDENT MICHAEL R. PENCE, SECRETARY S. MNUUCHIN, DRS. JEROME ADAMS DEBORAH BIRX ANTHONY FAUCI PRE-ORDER, 100% PROFIT DONATED

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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squeeg
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34484 posts
Fri May-01-20 12:03 PM

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216. "I don't think that store has any official ties to The White House."
In response to Reply # 205


  

          

For whatever it's worth.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Wed Apr-29-20 10:59 PM

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206. "I fear that this is going to impinge upon our human rights, and lead "
In response to Reply # 0


          

to severe measures of condemnation.

I don’t necessarily agree with the anti-lockdown protestors. However, I’m seeing this pandemic lead to digital and physical witch hunts.

Example, A male Chicagoian held a house party of 50 people. A video of the party was uploaded to Facebook. Within a matter of minutes , the video had gone viral, and a hunt was out for the person who organized the gathering. The individual was verbally degraded and reprimanded throughout the social media universe, and some were saying that he needed to be jailed or shot.

Major news outlets tracked him down to get an interview , and the interview is already in the papers. His address and photo are in the papers as well. It appears that the young man was simply oblivious and unaware on just how dangerous the virus is. He also stated that he threw the party to honor his 2 friends who had recently been murdered.


I can honestly see our laws and amendments being changed to acknowledge some form of distancing, and individuals being jailed for breaching them, or something even more severe than that. We are dealing with a pandemic and the necessary precautions need to be implemented, but our liberties and rights as human beings and citizens shouldn’t just be tossed out the window either.....

Things are going to get really slippery as human interactions continue to be suppressed.....




  

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handle
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18937 posts
Thu Apr-30-20 10:23 AM

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208. "^^Super ridiculous example there but I kind of see it and disagree"
In response to Reply # 206


          

I agree - don't DOX people.

But, if the world is so fragile that you can't NOT party for a few month before HAVING TO PARTY then we are in BIG trouble.

But yes, don't DOX people. Don't go harm people. Shaming people??? I'm fine with that right now - when an actual plague is spreading.


https://abc7chicago.com/health/cfd-commander-owns-home-that-held-packed-house-party-alderman-says/6139955/

And watch the video - dude says he thought the virus was a scam - but he gets it now.

BTW, he got a violation for disorderly conduct.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Thu Apr-30-20 12:32 PM

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209. "RE: ^^Super ridiculous example there but I kind of see it and disagree"
In response to Reply # 208
Thu Apr-30-20 12:39 PM by allStah

          

I don't think you are following me here. It's not so much about having a party. It's more about where do your liberties end and begin with this as a citizen and as a human being?

That's the question.


At the end of the day, regardless of governments, laws, orders, etc, you are your own free organism and existence. That is fact. When it comes to any order given by government, religion, or just man in general, it tends to travel to the extreme, and then an uprising comes about sooner or later, because of the simple nature of free will, volition etc.


For instance take the Spanish Inquisition, not a similar situation, but an order to either follow Catholicism or be tortured. Now that wasn't a pandemic and has nothing to do with the pandemic, but it was an order to have people exist and act a certain way, and infringed upon their rights as free human beings.


What if this situation graduates to where government orders everyone to get vaccinated, or that there will permanently be no close interaction in public, and those who breach those orders will be detained, etc?

If these lockdowns are extended, and they definitely will be, the number of people who are against them will continue to rise and rise. Human suppression can only last for so long, no matter if it is 400 years or 2 days. Life is a matter of balance, where there will always be opposing energies, or opposition to a constant mechanism....

A constant mechanism is never agreed upon or followed by all, no matter if the mechanism is to save lives or uplift the people. The matrix taught us that. It is just the simple nature of opposing tendencies or energies.....and that opposition usually comes about when certain actions have swayed to a point of an imbalance.

So again where and when does the line ( imbalance) gets drawn where liberties and rights start to become fractured with all of this?










  

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handle
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18937 posts
Thu Apr-30-20 12:55 PM

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210. "WHAT?????????????????????????????????????"
In response to Reply # 209


          

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF? THE SPANISH INQUISITION is somehow SIMILAR to STAY AT HOME ORDERS?

They didn't even make dude sit in THE COMFY CHAIR! Much less torture.

Dream of your revolution where your more free to spread the plague than to not.

If that's who you are then cool. (House partiers, biker gangs, and gun rights advocates will be at your party spreading it too!)

The other extension is:
If anyone spreads the plague to me and then tells me they have a right to - well I'm simply going to murder that person. I have the right to defend myself, don't I??? <-Another "logical" conclusion that's not good.


Note: California Governor Newsom is likely to order ALL beaches shut down this weekend (after many re-opened.) We'll hear a lot of your arguments on the news about liberties from people in swim trunks decrying the over reach of governemnt.

Right now I think you're all just babies.



------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Thu Apr-30-20 01:12 PM

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211. "RE: WHAT?????????????????????????????????????"
In response to Reply # 210
Thu Apr-30-20 01:14 PM by allStah

          

Your verbal actions are very hostile and lack calmness. and you don't read to well. I stated that the SI is not the pandemic or related to it, but no different when it comes to government orders....government orders are government orders.

Anyway, Your response proves my point. Your hostility and anger that OPPOSES my comments for the beliefs and views of your own. This is the balance. There will be those who are against, and those who are for...and this is where the battle happens. You just stated that someone opposing those orders would give you the right to protect yourself, by even killing if you have to.....You are proving my point.

There are uprisings and revolutions that happen almost every year, in different countries,etc. That will always exist. There was recently one in the middle east ( the arabian spring where leaders were killed). There was one happening before covid in Hong Kong.....No one is exempt of an uprising, no country either.

WE didn't see this epidemic coming, but it is here. So it is safe to say that we do not know what will happen. And as lockdowns get extended and possibly become stricter, will the protests grow even bigger?.....


I take no sides here ...just merely stating what history has already stated and continues to state.

  

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handle
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18937 posts
Thu Apr-30-20 01:20 PM

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212. "You are super awesome bro"
In response to Reply # 211
Thu Apr-30-20 01:21 PM by handle

          

You do you.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Thu Apr-30-20 06:24 PM

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213. "RE: You are super awesome bro"
In response to Reply # 212


          

Our Governor is already facing lawsuits regarding our stay at home order. There are lawsuits that talk about the state impinging on their constitutional rights.


"Pastor Steve Cassell with Beloved Church in Lena, Illinois, was preaching last week on isolation, but is now challenging the governor's restrictions on church gatherings.

"The devil does his greatest works in isolation," Cassell said during an online church service.

He's seeking a temporary restraining order to allow his congregation to once again meet in person and not online. Stephenson County, where his church is located, has had just 35 COVID-19 cases and no deaths, according to the Department of Public Health.

"The First Amendment has been taken away," Cassell said. "I would like it back, please. I would like it back, please. The freedom to exercise my religious liberties and the freedom to peaceably assemble are some of the core foundations of what our entire nation is built on."



It does not matter what type of order it is or what type of rule it is, no matter what the ruling is for, there will always be a group of people who think opposite to whatever is being ordered. Same way with the American Revolution, it was people (colonies)stating "no taxation without representation", and why should we be forced to pay taxes
or agree to laws that we did not vote for or having any representation to vote.


Again, I take no sides. Just stating on how all living things act when it comes to orders or laws.



  

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handle
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18937 posts
Thu Apr-30-20 10:02 PM

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214. "Super AWESOME!!"
In response to Reply # 213


          

Why not reply again to get the last word???

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri May-01-20 10:51 AM

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215. "blackface obama dance at reopen michigan rally."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1256214592180674560

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Fri May-01-20 12:49 PM

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217. ""But they are fighting for our rights!""
In response to Reply # 215


          

Clown niggas say clown things

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri May-01-20 12:50 PM

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218. "i have no idea why repubs are doubling down "
In response to Reply # 0


          

on 'opening up the economy' and backing these reopen protests.

the protests are extremely unpopular.
https://twitter.com/Newsweek/status/1252410248888901632

even seniors, rural folks, and working class whites tilt against trump on this.
https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1252715282138910720

govs who shut down and went against trump saw huge boosts in approval.
https://twitter.com/PoliticsReid/status/1255930519298224134

and people like brian kemp (trump friendly gov who shut down late and reopened early) saw their approval collapse.
https://twitter.com/HotlineJosh/status/1256174978556452864

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35861 posts
Fri May-01-20 01:17 PM

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220. "the only reason they do anything: money"
In response to Reply # 218


          

leaving the economy "closed" puts the onus on the state & federal budgets to provide funds for the citizenry (unemployment payments, stimulus etc)

opening up means that responsibility shifts back to private businesses.

that's it.

d

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Sun May-03-20 08:16 AM

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222. "yup yup."
In response to Reply # 220


          

  

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handle
Charter member
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Fri May-01-20 01:49 PM

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221. "It's becuase IT IS WHO THEY ARE"
In response to Reply # 218


          

They are deplorable.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Sun May-03-20 08:17 AM

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223. "this too."
In response to Reply # 221


          

  

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Stadiq
Member since Dec 21st 2005
4872 posts
Sun May-03-20 09:36 PM

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229. "they can't do otherwise without burning their rule book"
In response to Reply # 218


          


If the gov handled this even close to right, it would prove that government can actually play an important role.

Think about how much progressive shit was done after the great depression...think about (in some respects, anyway) how that helped lurch the country left for a few decades.

Everyone with half a brain knows 1 $1200 check isn't the answer, and knows that this isn't a problem that is going away next month.

Whole situation makes me **extra** mad at the left for not running better candidates/campaigns.


I really think this *could* have been an opportunity to elect a progressive candidate and president. I do. Its just that Warren ended up being a bad politician and Bernard ended up being a really bad movement leader who ran a very misguided campaign.

But I don't know if the country is built for something like this anyway. Its like if we can't go to work, eat out, and buy shit we don't know what to do with ourselves.

  

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Damali
Member since Sep 12th 2002
35861 posts
Sun May-03-20 11:42 PM

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230. "lol @ you showing exactly why in your post"
In response to Reply # 229
Sun May-03-20 11:44 PM by Damali

          

>I really think this *could* have been an opportunity to elect
>a progressive candidate and president. I do. Its just that
>Warren ended up being a bad politician and Bernard ended up
>being a really bad movement leader who ran a very misguided
>campaign.
>

this BS is exactly why there is no viable progressive candidate...cuz most people want a perfect progressive...y'all always have a caveat.

there's ALWAYS going to be something wrong with a progressive candidate.

why? cuz they are flawed human beings, just like any other candidate. no one is ever gonna be good enough if we always trying to play some dumb ass zero sum game.

Warren or Bernie would have been just fine.

d

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Sun May-03-20 08:18 AM

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224. "we just reported our deadliest day. as states are opening up."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/MattMurph24/status/1256771848248995841
-----
WHO: US just reported deadliest day for coronavirus

https://t.co/e1FZT3tRyI
-----

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Sun May-03-20 09:26 AM

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226. "It's still going to get worse "
In response to Reply # 224


          

My hospital is still saying that the current model puts the peak like 10 days from now. (They update the model and prediction every few days.)

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Sun May-03-20 09:23 AM

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225. "70+% of people who claimed unemployment havent received payments."
In response to Reply # 0


          

in florida...only 8% of claims have been approved.

https://www.salon.com/2020/05/02/more-than-70-of-jobless-americans-did-not-receive-march-unemployment-benefits-study/

meanwhile corporations are getting millions in bailouts they dont even need with no requirement to pay employees or limit executive pay.

we no longer live in a democratic country with a functioning government. we live in a failed state.

this is russian/eastern bloc level shameless corruption.

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13928 posts
Sun May-03-20 11:04 AM

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227. "Why does the CDC show only 37,000 COVID-19 deaths?"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Am I missing something on their website or reading it wrong?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Sun May-03-20 08:03 PM

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228. "This article covers it"
In response to Reply # 227


          

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/coronavirus-death-toll-cdc-misinformation

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Mon May-04-20 12:13 PM

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231. "The clown show continues in San Deigo - wearing a KKK hood for a mask"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/public-safety/story/2020-05-03/man-wearing-kkk-hood-in-santee-sparks-outrage

SANTEE — A man was spotted wearing a Ku Klux Klan hood in a Vons in Santee on Saturday, igniting outrage from the mayor, the head of the Anti-Defamation League in San Diego and others.
A corporate spokeswoman said grocery clerks repeatedly asked the shopper to remove the hood or leave the store, located on Mission Gorge Road.

A supervisor found the man once he was in a checkout line and asked him again to take off the hood or leave, said Melissa Hill, a spokeswoman for Vons, Albertsons and Pavilions stores in Southern California.

The man removed the hood, purchased his items and left.

Photos shared on social media showed the man pushing the cart in the store’s produce area and holding a plastic produce bag while wearing the hood. At least one photo shows the man, who appears to be white and middle-aged, standing behind a cart without a hood.

Santee Mayor John Minto and other leaders condemned the incident.

“San Diego is #NoPlaceForHate,” Tammy Gillies, regional director of the Anti-Defamation League in the San Diego area, said on Twitter.

Minto and residents who commented on social media said the shopper’s actions do not represent the values of the East County city of almost 60,000 residents. The city has worked over the years to overcome a history of racially motivated attacks and skinhead activity that led to the nicknames “Klantee” and “Santucky.”

“So troublesome in so many ways this is still happening in Santee at Vons,” resident Tiam Tellez wrote on Facebook, where he shared photos he took of the shopper. “Disgusting!”

While some questioned why the man was not forced to leave the store, Tellez, Minto and others thanked the store’s management team for stepping in.

“Many thanks to all who stepped forward to curtail this sad reminder of intolerance,” the mayor said. “Santee, its leaders and I will not tolerate such behavior.”

County Supervisor Dianne Jacob, who represents Santee and other East County communities, also denounced the man’s actions.

“The images I’ve seen are abhorrent,” she said in a statement. “This blatant racism has no place in Santee or any part of San Diego County. It is not who we are. It is not what we stand for and can’t be tolerated.”

Hill said the incident was alarming and shocking.

“At Vons, fostering an environment of courtesy, dignity, and respect is one of our highest priorities, and we work hard to hold everyone in our stores to these standards, including customers,” Hill said. “This was a disturbing incident for our associates and customers, and we are reviewing with our team how to best handle such inappropriate situations in the future.”

The incident occurred a day after a San Diego County mandate requiring residents to wear face coverings in public, including in grocery stores, took effect. The mandate is aimed at slowing the spread of COVID-19.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38812 posts
Mon May-04-20 12:31 PM

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233. "sarkkkasm"
In response to Reply # 231


  

          

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13928 posts
Mon May-04-20 01:10 PM

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237. "Sad but not surprised that this happened in Klantee"
In response to Reply # 231


          

  

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handle
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18937 posts
Sat May-09-20 06:52 PM

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262. "Santee back again - now with swastikas !!!!!"
In response to Reply # 231
Sat May-09-20 06:53 PM by handle

          

This is a store close enough to me that I've shopped there.


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/santee-california-kkk-swastika-videotika-face-mask-dusty-shekel_n_5eb6252dc5b6c3bd86ff45bb

A customer wearing a swastika face mask was confronted by deputies at a grocery store in the same Southern California community where another shopper wore a Ku Klux Klan hood just days ago ― the latest examples of white supremacist and anti-Semitic symbols being used to protest COVID-19 safety measures.

The shopper removed the swastika after being ordered to do so by deputies called to the scene at Food 4 Less in Santee on Thursday, said law enforcement authorities.

The shopper — who later identified himself to the Times of San Diego (and to police) as Santee resident Dustin Hart — uploaded a video of his confrontation with a store clerk and a pair of deputies called to the scene to deal with a “disturbance.” He claimed it was his “First Amendment” right to wear the mask. But one of the deputies pointed out that he was in a “family friendly” private store that “can make their own rules.” The officer added: “They don’t want people seeing that. It’s offensive.”

Seconds earlier, the Times reported, a store clerk asked him to remove the mask because it was “basically a hate crime.” He refused.

In a video of the incident Hart posted to BitChute, a right-wing video platform that often features hate speech, he appeared to be with his wife, who was wearing a black T-shirt with the “honkler” clown version of Pepe the Frog, a white nationalist meme.

The San Diego Sheriff’s Department issued a statement saying that when deputies “asked for the symbol to be removed, the man complied.” Investigators will “continue to look into the matter,” the statement added. “The Sheriff’s Department does not condone hate or acts of intolerance. We are a county that is welcoming of people from all backgrounds.”

Hart was asked not to return to the store, reported NBC 7 in San Diego.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38812 posts
Mon May-04-20 12:25 PM

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232. "these videos of protesters all in cops faces"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://twitter.com/SanaSaeed/status/1256861801951748097

aside from it being rich to see the bluelivesmatter respect authority crowd screaming at cops, and the obvious reason cops aren't using any force whatsoever...

the cops not wearing masks... you could damn near see spit flying in these videos.

obviously a good amount of cops are trumpsters and i'm sure there are plenty are on some "I'm just doing my job because the democrat mayor" etc..

on the other, cops are catching covid. last week i think 20% of the nypd was out sick

in a sane word, cops and firefighters would be out here telling these people to stfu but damn we're broken.

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Mon May-04-20 12:45 PM

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235. "RE: these videos of protesters all in cops faces"
In response to Reply # 232
Mon May-04-20 12:50 PM by allStah

          

this is my real problem with the protest. I agree they have the right to protest and to assemble, no qualms there. As a citizen, you have the right to question legislations and the government that implements those legislations when it comes to your existence as a citizen and as a human being.

However, why aren't African Americans or other minorities afforded that same right to protest without being harmed or penalized in some form or fashion? We are always instructed to fall in line and stop causing trouble when we stand up for our dogmas or beliefs. That is where the true bias exist.

And they should be wearing masks as they protest. If african americans were out protesting without wearing a mask, would they afford that same tolerance?

  

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handle
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18937 posts
Mon May-04-20 12:43 PM

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234. "Trump Administration Models Predict Near Doubling of Daily Death Toll by..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/04/us/coronavirus-updates.html

The Trump administration projects about 3,000 daily deaths by early June.

As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of cases and deaths from the coronavirus over the next several weeks, reaching about 3,000 daily deaths on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, nearly double from the current level of about 1,750.

The projections, based on government modeling pulled together in chart form by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, forecast about 200,000 new cases each day by the end of the month, up from about 25,000 cases now.

The numbers underscore a sobering reality: While the United States has been hunkered down for the past seven weeks, not much has changed. And the reopening to the economy will make matters worse.

“There remains a large number of counties whose burden continues to grow,” the Centers for Disease Control warned.

The projections confirm the primary fear of public health experts: that a reopening of the economy will put the nation right back where it was in mid-March, when cases were rising so rapidly in some parts of the country that patients were dying on gurneys in hospital hallways as the health care system grew overloaded.

(SWIPE STOPPED, but use the link above if you want to read it all.)

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Mon May-04-20 12:50 PM

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236. "Basically a 9/11 a day"
In response to Reply # 234


          

And this was preventable.

This administration WANTS this to happen.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79515 posts
Tue May-05-20 08:39 AM

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238. "How to win a second term? Kill off voters in urban areas"
In response to Reply # 234


          

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22151 posts
Tue May-05-20 02:41 PM

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239. "This is kind of interesting..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUIgFMl_o00

it kind of falls in line with what I've been thinking that our perspective is changing real time. I think eventually we're going to come to a non-ventilator treatment eventually. What that is...I have NO idea, its just a really good solution for the time.

***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Tue May-05-20 03:31 PM

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240. "Wisdom from &quot; VIBRATE HEALING with Sarah???&quot;"
In response to Reply # 239
Tue May-05-20 03:35 PM by handle

          

Why would YOU have an opinion on what it could be??

This guy says it's "High Altitude Sickness" And for some reason he's one of the few doctors to see it - and the others are all wrong.



Is this guy a doctor, or does he jsut wear scrubs? Any info would be helpful.

EDIT: original video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq6YEYfn2zw


Coudl he be right? I'm no doctor, I don't know.

Maybe this virus just fucks the lungs out so bad that no one know how to deal with it yet?

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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double negative
Member since Dec 14th 2007
22151 posts
Tue May-05-20 08:31 PM

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244. "thanks for updating the link"
In response to Reply # 240


  

          

>Why would YOU have an opinion on what it could be??
>
>This guy says it's "High Altitude Sickness" And for some
>reason he's one of the few doctors to see it - and the others
>are all wrong.
>
>
>
>Is this guy a doctor, or does he jsut wear scrubs? Any info
>would be helpful.
>
>EDIT: original video:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq6YEYfn2zw
>
>
>Coudl he be right? I'm no doctor, I don't know.
>
>Maybe this virus just fucks the lungs out so bad that no one
>know how to deal with it yet?


I guess, this might make some sense if viewed in context.

My opinion just comes from watching our understanding of covid evolve.

At first it was ventilate no matter what - we need ventilators. And the response to the call was to source ventilators. In addition, the homebrew/hacker community started rigging up potential solutions while totally missing the mark on/about what ventilators do besides cycling air into and out of the lungs.

also, the big thing to look out for was fever and dry cough - but then the interesting part is most folks who need hospital care don't even have fevers.

Ventilators also potentially introduce a form of trauma (which is a known known and why the ventilator is not just a machine that pumps air into and out of the lungs - when in proper use it's riding a fine line).

Next to that, doctors have also been reporting that covid affected lungs are "tougher" in texture which can make ventilation difficult.

one other very interesting observation ER doctors have mentioned is how patients will go from 0 to 100 extremely quickly. Oxygen levels will drop to critical levels before the patient will even become aware of it at times.

So, hospitals started sending folks home with pulse oximeters with explicit instructions to come in if and when blood oxygen levels hit 93-90%.

I know this is a word salad. I'm obviously not a doctor, I'm interested in how treatment has evolved in real time.



***********************************************************
https://soundcloud.com/swageyph/yph-die-with-me

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38812 posts
Tue May-05-20 05:57 PM

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241. "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-task-force-idUSKBN22H2KJ

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Tue May-05-20 07:01 PM

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242. "Dr. Rick Bight's files whistleblower complaint"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Told Trump in January and was ignored. Remember Trump WANTS Americans to die. It's not only been his long-standing fantasy, it's his path to keep in power.


My only goal in life is to live long enough to watch these people suffer

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Fri May-08-20 01:56 PM

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251. "Special Counsel determines sufficient grounds to believe retaliation"
In response to Reply # 242


          

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1258830278128209920

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Trinity444
Charter member
41728 posts
Tue May-05-20 08:21 PM

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243. "are we gonna be to sick to vote? "
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

I feel like, opening outside is a set up...

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed May-06-20 06:03 AM

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245. "white supremacists discussed using virus as a bioweapon"
In response to Reply # 0


          

to infect nonwhite people and law enforcement.

for people who thought this was just a conspiracy theory.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-white-supremacists-discussed-using-covid-19-as-bioweapon-2020-3

theres a tacit acknowledgment among white people (not just extremists) that theyre carriers less likely to die from the virus as nonwhite people (at this stage).

if you know anything about how white race survivalism (low white birth rates in the midst of a browning world) is driving conservative politics all across the globe (immigration, healthcare, social safety net, etc) then youve prolly already come to the conclusion that this is already built into some of the perspective (even if just subconcious) that conservatives view these shutdowns/reopenings through.

  

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Nodima
Member since Jul 30th 2008
15297 posts
Thu May-07-20 10:30 AM

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248. "I've got a 4-count on Plandemic truthers so far as well"
In response to Reply # 245


  

          

I know it's a different strain of mental virus but it's the same bullshit. The best thing I can say is that none of those 4 were people I respected prior to them falling down that hole anyway.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Wed May-06-20 07:17 AM

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246. "Native American Health Center asked for supplies got body bags (swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-06-20 07:20 AM by navajo joe

          

In another case of "Here's what they they think about you' (c) Ice Cube

They asked for tests and were just given body bags.

If there was any question that this administration is deliberately using crisis as an opportunity to redistribute wealth, close borders, and disenfranchise and kill 'undesirables' I hope that there is no longer any question.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/native-american-health-center-asked-covid-19-supplies-they-got-n1200246?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

May 5, 2020, 5:56 PM EDT
By Erik Ortiz

Native American health center asked for COVID-19 supplies. It got body bags instead.
"Are we going to keep getting body bags or are we going to get what we actually need?" a Seattle Indian Health Board official asked.

In mid-March, as the Seattle region grappled with a coronavirus outbreak, a community health center caring for the area's Native American population made a pressing request to county, state and federal health agencies: Please send medical supplies.

What it received almost three weeks later left staff members stunned.

"My team turned ghost white," said Esther Lucero, chief executive officer of the Seattle Indian Health Board. "We asked for tests, and they sent us a box of body bags."

The health board's center — serving about 6,000 people a year in Seattle and King County — still has the package, which is filled with zippered white bags and beige tags that read "attach to toe."

Image: A box of body bags received by the Seattle Indian Health Board.A box of body bags received by the Seattle Indian Health Board.Seattle Indian Health Board
Lucero said the body bags were a mistaken — yet nonetheless macabre — delivery from a distributor via King County's Public Health Department.

Abigail Echo-Hawk, the health board's chief research officer, said she believes that the message it sends, even unintentionally, is resonating in Native American communities across the United States during the pandemic: There is a pressing lack of adequate resources and funding as promised.

Full coverage of the coronavirus outbreak

"The Navajo Nation is in a crisis with cases, and there are tribes and other Indian organizations across the country that are in similar crises and can use medical supplies and help instead of watching people die," Echo-Hawk said. "This is a metaphor for what's happening."

Related

POLITICS
While Trump minimizes the toll, government orders 100,000 new body bags
Her concern comes as the federal government announced Tuesday that it will begin distributing billions of dollars in desperately needed pandemic-relief funds to Native American tribal governments, money that was delayed for more than a month in a related legal dispute.

While Seattle and Washington as a whole have managed to slow the spread of the coronavirus after being the nation's earliest hot spot at the beginning of March, Echo-Hawk said she's worried about whether the center will be able to perform the necessary coronavirus testing or secure enough personal protective equipment, or PPE, as businesses reopen and if a second wave of the virus crops up later this year, as health officials have warned.

"My questions is: Are we going to keep getting body bags or are we going to get what we actually need?" Echo-Hawk said.


‘Swelling hotspot’ : Navajo Nation has more than 2000 coronavirus cases
MAY 4, 202002:25
Research shared this month from Public Health — Seattle & King County suggests that social distancing efforts in the region have been effective, with the county's infection rate falling since early March, although the rate of infection among people of color is still four times that of whites.

The Seattle Indian Health Board is one of 41 urban health programs under the federal Indian Health Service, which provides health care access to about 2.5 million American Indians and Alaska Natives.

Lucero said receiving PPE or COVID-19 tests, and not body bags, back in March was critical while they were working to curb the spread of the virus. At the time, the Seattle Indian Health Board did not have the capacity to test, and although the Federal Emergency Management Agency did offer to provide testing for the center, the logistics involved didn't make the process feasible, Lucero said.

Related

NEWS
She's a doctor on the front lines of the coronavirus. At home, she has no running water.
After turning down FEMA's offer, the box of body bags inexplicably arrived, Lucero added. The health board did not have a contact at the county health department to ask about the shipment. Meanwhile, Lucero said, the county did help deliver about 200 COVID-19 test kits through FEMA.

She welcomed those tests because unlike the earlier ones, the health board was permitted to use their own lab to process the tests and communicate the results to patients directly.

Public Health — Seattle & King County on Tuesday could not immediately verify the health board's claims, but said it would look into them.

Image: Abigail Echo-Hawk, a Pawnee tribal member, is chief research officer for the Seattle Indian Health Board.Abigail Echo-Hawk, a Pawnee tribal member, is chief research officer for the Seattle Indian Health Board.Seattle Indian Health Board
While the Seattle Indian Health Board has the PPE and supplies it needs as of now, Echo-Hawk and Lucero said, they were disappointed in the lack of aid in those crucial, earlier weeks and have since relied on Native-owned business such as the retail brand Eighth Generation in Seattle for donations to adequately fill the void.

"We need to have the correct resources and be included at the state and federal level," Echo-Hawk said. "Until then, Native organizations like mine are going to push forward to create the resources needed for us and by us."

The Seattle Indian Health Board has previously received some federal funding, which has helped to set up an additional testing site and keep the center operating, Echo-Hawk said. But she added that the program could benefit further from funding set aside for tribes and federal Indian programs in the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act, a $2 trillion stimulus package passed in March.

The U.S. government has an obligation to provide health care to all Native Americans as stipulated in longstanding treaties with Indian tribes.

Download the NBC News app for latest updates on the coronavirus outbreak

The Treasury and Interior departments announced the distribution Tuesday of $4.8 billion to tribal governments, divvied up based on their census figures. However, urban Indian programs are not part of this phase.

The stimulus money was expected to be released before the end of April, as mandated by the law, but a legal feud erupted when tribal governments denounced the idea that Alaska Native corporations, which are for-profit businesses that serve tribal villages, would be allocated some of the funding.

Tara Sweeney, the assistant secretary for Indian affairs in the Department of Interior and an Alaska Native, has been accused by some tribes of having a conflict of interest and trying to divert some of the funding for Alaska Native corporations.

The Interior Department said in a statement that Sweeney has acted ethically and that some are "seeking to sow division during a time of crisis with unfounded allegations of favoritism."

Some Native American tribes have filed lawsuits challenging the aid for Alaska Native corporations, and the Treasury Department said Tuesday that such funding will be "held back" until the litigation is resolved.

Sen. Tom Udall, D-N.M., the vice chairman of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, said the funds should have been out the door to help Native communities on the outset of the pandemic.

"Treasury's announcement is the definition of 'too little, too late,'" Udall said in a statement. "It comes weeks after the deadline and billions of dollars short."

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A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28839 posts
Thu May-07-20 09:56 AM

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247. "Word around the campfire is America reopens by July 1st..."
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

... Without restriction meaning no ppe, no social distancing, or sanitary guidelines.

Rt.live is a real time coronavirus tracker. 1 is a full blown pandemic whereas 0 means no cases.

Why is this happening so soon?

No empathy for white misery (c) BDot

"root for everybody black haters say that's crazy, wow..."

  

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dillinjah
Charter member
9022 posts
Fri May-08-20 09:26 AM

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249. "the porn industry could teach us how to test & trace (swipe):"
In response to Reply # 0


          

make sense to me

https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/08/porn-industry-model-for-reopening-amid-covid19/

reopen workplaces in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic, they’re grappling with what seems like an endless list of questions: where to test, who to test, and how often to test for the virus? Further complicating matters are issues of workers’ privacy, geography, politics, science, and cost. It’s a difficult mandate. But there is one place to look for guidance — the adult film industry.

Since the late 1990s, when an outbreak of HIV infections threatened to shutter the multibillion-dollar industry, the mainstream porn community has implemented procedures that require all performers to be tested for HIV and a host of other sexually transmitted infections every 14 days before they can be cleared to work. Any HIV-positive test leads to an immediate shutdown of all U.S. sets, followed by detailed contact tracing before sets can reopen. While not perfect, those in the industry say the nationwide PASS program works to protect thousands of performers, ensures safer workplaces, and curtails the spread of disease.

“I don’t think I could be in this industry without it. That would be insane. Bareback sex with strangers 20 times a month? It would be like the most dangerous job in the world,” said Lance Hart, a gay and straight adult film performer and independent pornographer in Las Vegas who runs the production companies Sweet Femdom and Man Up Films.

In the 20 years it has been in place, PASS has met, and overcome, many of the same challenges that any large-scale coronavirus testing program might encounter, from issues of keeping databases of private medical information secure, preventing the forging of test results, dealing with false positive results, and educating workers about the need for repeated testing to keep workplaces safe. Those devising strategies to reopen workplaces and the larger economy during the coronavirus pandemic say their plans would involve, at their core, processes of rigorous testing, isolation, and contact tracing similar to those used in the adult film industry.

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“In many ways, what they are doing is a model for what we are trying to do with Covid,” said Ashish Jha, a physician who directs Harvard University’s Global Health Institute and has been calling for widespread national testing to contain the coronavirus. “The adult film industry teaches us that as a proof of concept, this can work. We just have to scale it up.”

Lance Hart
Lance Hart, an adult film performer who also runs two production companies.
NIKKI HEARTS
Jha said he could envision a program similar to PASS where Covid-19 test results are put into a secure database that could be checked to verify whether people had recently tested negative for the virus. “You could imagine TSA verifying someone had tested negative before they were allowed on a flight,” he said. “Testing is particularly important for areas that are high risk, like airplanes or meatpacking plants.”

While it did not cite the adult film industry, a “National Covid-19 Testing Action Plan” released by the Rockefeller Foundation last month included the creation of an “infection database” that could be accessed by employers, schools, TSA, and those scanning tickets for entry into sports or music venues.

“What the adult film industry has produced has worked, and really could be the kind of tool we need,” Jha said. “People can’t get distracted because it’s from a business they don’t approve of.”

Mike Stabile, communications director for the Free Speech Coalition, the adult entertainment trade association that runs PASS, said the adult film industry understands “better than most the discussion that has to happen for businesses to reopen.”

Yet for all of that expertise, it would be hard to imagine the Trump administration, or state politicians, reaching out to the porn industry for guidance. Stabile said that while he has not been contacted by any government officials, he would have plenty of advice to share. “It’s going to be an ongoing process. It’s not going to be a binary open or shut,” he said. “But it’s not as heavy a lift as people think. This is something that’s doable.”

Stabile, who is closely following coronavirus news, feels most people are unaware of the need for repeat testing that is standard in his industry. “When you look at the world at large, there’s an idea you’ll be tested once and then go back to work, but with coronavirus, it’s not that simple. We’re looking at a series of regular tests until this gets under control,” he said.

Repeat testing will be necessary for the coronavirus, too, because — like with HIV — there is so much asymptomatic spread of the coronavirus, said Elizabeth “Betz” Halloran, a professor of biostatistics at the University of Washington who directs the Center for Inference and Dynamics of Infectious Diseases at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle.

“You’ll have to keep testing, maybe every 10 days. We need simpler tests that people can just do at home,” said Halloran, who envisions a low-cost “10-pack” of tests for home use.

“We can’t sit around for 18 months waiting for a vaccine. We have to find a way out without pharmaceuticals, and that’s repeat testing, taking people out of circulation, and then contact tracing, so it’s an interesting analogy,” said Halloran, who is working with colleagues to model a plan where the disease could be kept at levels that would not exceed health care capacity and that would require quarantining less than 10% of people.

Related: ‘We need an army’: Hiring of coronavirus trackers seen as key to curbing disease spread
Performers say they have a lot to teach the rest of the post-Covid-19 world. “We’re already used to working in an environment of risk. That’s something the rest of the normal world is just learning to do,” said Lotus Lain, a bisexual adult film actress who works with Stabile’s group as an advocate for other performers.

Lain said the porn sets she works on are extremely clean and precautions are taken to limit infectious-disease risk. “All of the things people are looking for right now — gloves, masks, alcohol wipes — we have all those things on sets. It’s standard operating procedure,” she said. “I hope other industries look to our industry not just to learn, but to credit us as well.”

Lotus Lain
Adult-film actress Lotus Lain
LEGENDONE
AIDS experts say the testing program within the adult film industry provides insight into how we might build national testing programs to safeguard workplaces, but also helps illustrate the many challenges that lie ahead, in part because the coronavirus has proved so contagious.

“HIV is our prior pandemic. Surely we can learn from that,” said Robert Gallo, the virologist who co-discovered HIV and now directs the Institute of Human Virology at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. But Gallo said preventing the spread of HIV in the film industry is a far more tractable problem than reining in the novel coronavirus.

“You have to deal with every virus differently,” said Gallo, who in 2011 co-founded the Global Virus Network, a consortium working to prevent and eradicate viral disease. HIV, he said, was difficult to contain because symptoms don’t occur for years, but it was also harder to transmit. “This virus is viciously infectious,” he said. “It’s as infectious as anything I’ve ever heard of.” One key to containment, he added, would be to take time now, before widespread testing begins, to ensure tests are highly accurate and avoid the false positive results caused by cross reactions with other common coronaviruses.

Pamina Gorbach, a professor of infectious disease epidemiology at UCLA’s Fielding School of Public Health, has studied the spread of sexually transmitted diseases in the adult film industry. She says the testing program is a step in the right direction to protect the health of performers, but thinks there is room for improvement.

Gorbach’s 2017 study of 360 adult film workers showed 24% of performers were infected with either chlamydia or gonorrhea. One-third of those infections were found in the throat or rectum, she said, undetectable by the urine tests the industry uses to screen for sexually transmitted infections and serving as reservoirs for ongoing transmission. The findings show that testing protocols need to be carefully thought through, she said. (Chlamydia and gonorrhea, for example, can be transmitted within the 14-day repeat testing window that was chosen because it works to prevent HIV transmission.)

Her study also found more than 20% of film workers were self-treating without medical advice when they had symptoms, hoping to shorten the time they might miss work. Gorbach said she feared the same thing could happen with Covid-19, with people misusing or overusing inappropriate treatments in an attempt to cure themselves or mask symptoms so they won’t miss work. (Porn performers don’t get paid when they can’t get to sets, just like other workers without paid sick leave.)

Gorbach said she did see clear lessons that coronavirus testing programs could take from the film industry, including thinking about how to address people who “float,” or work at multiple locations that have vastly different standards for screening or protection. “People in nursing homes float, just like the adult film industry. They float, they work at multiple places with different rules and standards,” she said. “If one place they work screens for infection and one doesn’t, they can take the infection from one place to another.”

Related: Covid-19 spreads too fast for traditional contact tracing. New digital tools could help
The film industry deals with this through frequent testing, and Stabile said most performers won’t work with untested partners. While the testing program is voluntary, Stabile said clear test results are a requirement on most mainstream sets.

Who would pay for tests is also an issue. In the film industry, performers generally pay the roughly $150 testing fee to be cleared to work. Public health officials argue that workers, especially low-wage workers, should not bear the brunt of coronavirus-testing costs. “In public health, we try to reduce barriers to prevent the spread of disease, especially economic barriers,” said Angela Bazzi, an assistant professor of community health sciences at Boston University School of Public Health who has studied the health of sex workers in Mexico, Kenya, Ghana, and Boston. “If we place this burden on individuals, that’s worrisome.”

The geography of testing is also a concern; when permits and condoms were required on film sets in Los Angeles, many producers moved filming to less restrictive locations. Employers might do the same, experts said, to avoid coronavirus testing programs they deem costly or onerous.

Bazzi said it was fascinating to think about what could be learned from a program that increased safety for actors in the adult film industry. “It’s informative,” she said. “They’ve clearly gone through a decision-making process.” But she added that coronavirus testing would likely be far trickier for practical reasons. Adult film testing started more than a decade after the HIV outbreak, and only after years of research to improve HIV tests. Coronavirus tests are still a work in progress.

“In HIV, we saw this progression of tests that took decades, and there are still new tests being developed,” Bazzi said. “With coronavirus, there are still a lot of unknowns with testing.”

Politics will also likely play a role in coronavirus testing programs, if the film industry is an indicator. The testing program continually comes under fire from the AIDS Healthcare Foundation, whose leaders think testing does not do enough to prevent on-set HIV transmission and that condoms should be required. Another issue has been a simmering argument over whether HIV-positive performers who have such low levels of the virus that they cannot transmit it should be allowed to participate in filming. For now, any HIV-positive result, regardless of viral titre, disqualifies a performer from being cleared to film in the PASS program.

Now, fears about sexually transmitted infections have faded into the background as those in the film industry grapple with the coronavirus. Performers can obtain the tests they need to be cleared to work because medical clinics remain open, but Stabile said few were participating, mainly because production is on hold due to the coronavirus. (People can still shoot solo videos, or videos with people they are quarantining with.)

Like many industries, Stabile’s group is trying to determine when and how it could safely resume work. Like workers across the country, those in the film industry are feeling the economic pain of loss of work — although those who run subscription porn sites say their business is booming during quarantine. “My revenue is through the roof,” said Hart, who, while at home with his wife and four cats, is raising money for makeup artists, production assistants, and other set workers who are struggling.

A Free Speech Coalition task force is meeting twice a week by Zoom, grappling with questions like whether they can incorporate Covid-19 in their testing protocols and how to protect camera operators, makeup artists, and other on-set employees that did not require testing before. “We’re asking questions like whether directors and camera people can shoot with N95 masks on,” Stabile said. “We are actively trying to figure out how to make sets safe, and that means coronavirus as well as HIV.”

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Fri May-08-20 10:16 AM

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250. "White House refuses to hear any additional stimulus legislation in May"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1258772141195100161?s=20

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A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Mynoriti
Charter member
38812 posts
Fri May-08-20 02:56 PM

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252. "Stephen Miller's wife caught the hoax"
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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Fri May-08-20 08:04 PM

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253. "I don't wish death on anybody"
In response to Reply # 252


          

who doesn't deserve it.

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We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Fri May-08-20 08:08 PM

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254. "11 Cases in the Secret Service "
In response to Reply # 252


          

https://news.yahoo.com/secret-service-coronavirus-cases-white-house-concerns-221444492.html

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A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13928 posts
Fri May-08-20 11:38 PM

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256. "This means Melania has to have it since she is fucking 2 of them "
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Kira
Member since Nov 14th 2004
28839 posts
Sat May-09-20 09:00 AM

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258. "?????????????????"
In response to Reply # 256


  

          

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Fri May-08-20 09:36 PM

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255. "Roy of 'Siegfried and Roy' fame dies of COVID-19"
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https://news.avclub.com/r-i-p-legendary-illusionist-roy-horn-of-siegfried-ro-1843352952

Roy Horn—the iconic illusionist who, alongside creative partner Siegfried Fischbacher, established one of the most essential acts to dazzle the Las Vegas Strip—has died due to complications caused by coronavirus. Horn was diagnosed with the virus on April 28. Per The Hollywood Reporter, Siegfried confirmed the death in a statement: “Today, the world has lost one of the greats of magic, but I have lost my best friend. From the moment we met, I knew Roy and I, together, would change the world. There could be no Siegfried without Roy, and no Roy without Siegfried. Roy was a fighter his whole life including during these final days. I give my heartfelt appreciation to the team of doctors, nurses and staff at Mountain View Hospital who worked heroically against this insidious virus that ultimately took Roy’s life.” He was 75 years old.

More to come...

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Sat May-09-20 08:11 AM

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257. "COVID-19 Took Black Lives First. It Didn't Have to. (Swipe)"
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I'm only posting the first section of the article here because it is way too long to post the full thing. But it is a very important look at the lives lost and the systemic reasons behind their death

https://features.propublica.org/chicago-first-deaths/covid-coronavirus-took-black-lives-first/

In Chicago, 70 of the city’s 100 first recorded victims of COVID-19 were black. Their lives were rich, and their deaths cannot be dismissed as inevitable. Immediate factors could — and should — have been addressed.

LARRY ARNOLD lived less than a mile from a hospital but, stepping out of his South Side apartment with a 103-degree fever, he told the Uber driver to take him to another 30 minutes away.

Charles Miles’ breathing was so labored when a friend called to check on him that the friend called an ambulance. Still, Miles, a retired respiratory therapist, was reluctant to leave his home.

Close family support had helped Rosa Lynn Franklin recover from a stroke several years ago, but when she was admitted to the hospital in late March, her daughter could do little more than pat her on the back and say goodbye.

All three were among the first people to die of COVID-19 in Chicago, and all three were African American. Their deaths reflect the stunning racial disparity in the initial toll of the virus. Of the city’s first 100 recorded victims, 70 were black.

As the pandemic has spread, that gap has narrowed, and Latinos now make up the largest portion of any reported demographic of confirmed cases across Illinois, state data shows. But the disparity in black deaths persists. As of early May, African Americans, who make up just 30% of Chicago’s population, are about half of its more than 1,000 coronavirus deaths.

It has been well established that African Americans are dying of COVID-19 at a disproportionate rate in cities across America. ProPublica sought to explore the problem by examining the first 100 recorded deaths in Chicago, a city with a rich and often troubled history on issues of race.

Using a database obtained from the Cook County Medical Examiner’s Office that listed the names, health and location information of all COVID-19-related deaths, reporters reached out to the families and friends of each person who died. Reporters ultimately spoke with those who knew 22 of the victims; gleaned details about the lives of many others from obituaries and social media posts; and interviewed experts, medical professionals and government officials to understand how and why those first 100 died.

The racial disparities in coronavirus deaths have largely been attributed to endemic and entrenched inequalities in Chicago — decades of disinvestment in the predominantly black neighborhoods on the South and West sides that have left residents with fewer jobs, poorer health and diminished opportunities. Those forces often are portrayed as intractable and, during a pandemic, nearly impossible to fix.

Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot acknowledged the challenge when she spoke publicly about the disparities last month and announced a plan to address them.

“We’re not going to reverse this in a moment, overnight, but we have to say it for what it is and move forward decisively as a city, and that’s what we will do,” she said. “This is about health care accessibility, life expectancy, joblessness and hunger.”

While all this is true, ProPublica’s reporting also revealed other patterns, factors that could — and should — have been addressed and which almost certainly exist in other communities experiencing similar disparities. Even though many of these victims had medical conditions that made them particularly susceptible to the virus, they didn’t always get clear or appropriate guidance about seeking treatment. They lived near hospitals that they didn’t trust and that weren’t adequately prepared to treat COVID-19 cases. And perhaps most poignantly, the social connections that gave their lives richness and meaning — and that played a vital role in helping them to navigate this segregated city that can at times feel hostile to black residents — made them more likely to be exposed to the virus before its deadly power became apparent.

Many of the first 100 recorded Chicago COVID-19 victims led lives threaded through with community and civic involvement, powerfully connected to their city, to friends and family. Some had led careers of service, like Patricia Frieson, a retired nurse, and Rhoda Hatch, a former teacher, and Carl Redd, a U.S. Army veteran. Their small businesses helped shape their corners of the city; Hardwell Smith, 85, arrived in Chicago as part of the Great Migration from the Jim Crow South and established gas stations and auto repair shops on the South Side. They were church deacons and musicians; doting uncles like 32-year-old Carl White and nurturing mothers like Juliet Davis, who, despite her limited means, fed the homeless who lived under a neighborhood viaduct.


Patricia Frieson, 61, was the first known person to die of COVID-19 in Illinois. She was a retired nurse and active in her church community.

Carl White, 32, was a computer whiz and “a gentle giant,” his mother said. “If he could help you, he would.”
Most of the first 100 lived in majority-black neighborhoods, according to an analysis of medical examiner data; hardest hit were South Shore, Auburn Gresham and Austin, where the median income for 40% or more of the residents in each community is less than $25,000.

Many were already sick, with underlying health conditions. Seventy-eight of them had hypertension and 53 had diabetes. Just 12 had one health condition, and only five people had no comorbidities. James Brooks, a 27-year-old black man, was the youngest to die.

“I’m not surprised because every natural disaster will peel back the day-to-day covers over society and reveal the social fault lines that decide in some ways who gets to live and who gets to die,” said Dr. David Ansell, senior vice president for community health equity at Rush University Medical Center. “And in the United States, those vulnerabilities are often at the intersection of race and health.”

Ansell, who wrote “The Death Gap: How Inequality Kills,” has spent decades documenting the life expectancy gap between black and white Chicagoans, which is the largest in the country. Structural racism, concentrated poverty, economic exploitation and chronic stress cause what’s known as biological weathering, Ansell said, where the body ages prematurely and results in earlier death.

Who dies first is different for each pandemic, said Dr. Howard Markel, director of the Center for the History of Medicine at the University of Michigan. The coronavirus’s earliest victims, he said, were the most vulnerable.

“They’re not quite forgotten, but we don’t pay close enough attention to the health and well-being of this segment of the population,” he said. “Then a microscopic organism comes and topples them over.”

They were vulnerable, but their deaths cannot be dismissed as inevitable.

(SEE LINK FOR FULL ARTICLE)

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A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Adwhizz
Member since Nov 12th 2003
40925 posts
Sat May-09-20 12:43 PM

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259. "This Made me smile (Wuhan Virus aint nuthing to...)"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwnlEH7ldq8&feature=share

R.I.P. Loud But Wrong Guy
Dec 29th 2009 - Dec 17th 2017

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Sat May-09-20 02:40 PM

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260. "The right is now gearing up anti-vax narrative "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Against the 'Gates Vaccine' which is a globalist plot that they will refuse (spoiler: no they won't they will say they will while letting the cult members die)

White House-approved OAN is pushing Russian propaganda that the virus was created by globalists/Deep State for population control and they are trying to stymie hydroxychloroquine (you know, the drug that saw increase in COVID deaths in clinical trials) in favor of another drug.

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1259184336995258372


All while a small, vocal subset of people on okp try to downplay the seriousness of this.

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A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Mon May-11-20 11:06 AM

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263. "theres a transnational syndicate carrying this stuff out."
In response to Reply # 260


          

executing the same gameplan in multiple countries...including australia (same lockdown protests, gates conspiracy, etc).

https://twitter.com/rachael_dexter/status/1259306149930651648

people dont realize theres pretty much a handful of right wing benefactors (murdoch, putin, etc) pulling the same strings across the entire globe.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Mon May-11-20 11:37 AM

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265. "The Unbelievable Story Of The Plot Against George Soros (Swipe)"
In response to Reply # 263
Mon May-11-20 11:53 AM by navajo joe

          

Fascinating article about how two right-wing political operatives turned a billionaire left-leaning philanthropist into the Keyser Soze for the right wing. Bill Gates is the latest iteration of the same play from the same playbook

The article also lays out the key reason I don't truck w/ the (largely white) so-called progressives on this site pushing their bullshit

"Most people know who they will vote for, what they support, and what they oppose. It’s very difficult to convince them otherwise, Finkelstein believed. It’s a lot easier to demoralize people than to motivate them. And the best way to win is to demoralize your opponent’s supporters. That’s what Trump did to great effect against Hillary Clinton, and what he meant when, after the election, he thanked black Americans for not voting."


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hnsgrassegger/george-soros-conspiracy-finkelstein-birnbaum-orban-netanyahu

How two Jewish American political consultants helped create the world’s largest anti-Semitic conspiracy theory.


The glass tower that houses George Soros’s office in Manhattan is overflowing with numbers on screens, tracking and predicting the directions of markets around the world. But there’s one that’s particularly hard to figure out — a basic orange chart on a screen analyzing sentiment on social media.

The data, updated regularly since 2017, projects the reactions on the internet to the name George Soros. He gets tens of thousands of mentions per week — almost always negative, some of it obviously driven by networks of bots. Soros is pure evil. A drug smuggler. Profiteer. Extremist. Conspiracist. Nazi. Jew. It’s a display of pure hate.

The demonization of Soros is one of the defining features of contemporary global politics, and it is, with a couple of exceptions, a pack of lies. Soros is indeed Jewish. He was an aggressive currency trader. He has backed Democrats in the US and Karl Popper’s notion of an “open society” in the former communist bloc. But the many wild and proliferating theories, which include the suggestion that he helped bring down the Soviet Union in order to clear a path to Europe for Africans and Arabs, are so crazy as to be laughable — if they weren’t so virulent.

Soros and his aides have spent long hours wondering: Where did this all come from?

Only a handful of people know the answer.

On a sunny morning last summer, one of them could be found standing in front of the huge buffet in the Westin Grand Hotel in Berlin. George Birnbaum is built like a marathon runner — tall and slender, his head and face shaved clean. Elegant horn-rimmed glasses frame his piercing blue eyes.

Birnbaum — a political consultant who has worked in the US, Israel, Hungary, and across the Balkans — had agreed to talk for the first time about his role in the creation of the Soros bogeyman, which ended up unleashing a global wave of anti-Semitic attacks on the billionaire investor. But he also wanted to defend his work, and that of his former mentor and friend, Arthur Finkelstein.

George Eli Birnbaum was born in 1970 in Los Angeles, where his family moved after fleeing Nazi Germany. His grandfather was shot by the Nazis in front of his son, Birnbaum’s father, who later survived Auschwitz. Anti-Semitism followed the family as they moved to Atlanta, where Birnbaum grew up, and where the Jewish school he attended was often defaced with anti-Semitic slurs. It left a mark.

In an era when many American Jews drifted away from their specific identity, Birnbaum wasn’t allowed to forget it. Every weekend his father handed him the Jerusalem Post.

“First you learn what’s going on with the Jewish people in the world, then you can worry about the rest of the world.”
“First you learn what’s going on with the Jewish people in the world, then you can worry about the rest of the world,” Birnbaum remembered his father saying. He grew up believing that only a strong nation, the state of Israel, could protect the Jews from a second Holocaust.

All of which makes it bizarre that Birnbaum and Finkelstein’s ideas spawned a new wave of anti-Semitism, and that they did so in the service of an authoritarian leader, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, reviled around the world for his far-right views. The two men took all the arguments against Soros, from East and West, from left and right, and fused them together. Two American Jews, one a towering figure in US politics, helped create a monster.

Birnbaum doesn’t appreciate the irony, but there is little doubt he played a crucial role in the weaponizing of anti-Semitism.

And he did it by putting Soros on the chopping block.

Starting in 2008, Birnbaum and Finkelstein worked in secret to get Orbán elected. Their victory in Hungary — away from the intense political scrutiny of Western Europe — showed that constructing an external enemy could bring electoral success in the modern era. It allowed Hungary to give birth to “Trump before Trump,” as Steve Bannon said.

Birnbaum and Finkelstein’s work has provided a new model for attack politics in this era of global division. They designed a master plan for exploiting these divisions that has worked in many different countries and contexts, and helped create a Jewish enemy that the far right has exploited to devastating effect. In 2016, when Trump ran his final TV ad ahead of the election, it came as no surprise that Soros was featured as a member of “global special interests” who don’t have “your good in mind.”

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Fox News / Via youtube.com
George Birnbaum in a 2015 appearance on Fox News.

To understand Birnbaum, you have to look backward, through the brutal Israeli politics of the 1990s to Washington, DC, in the 1970s, where a new profession known as political consultancy was devising a fresh set of tools for bringing people to power. There you find Birnbaum’s spiritual father, Finkelstein.

Starting in the late 1960s, Finkelstein was one of a handful of men reinventing the industry of political consulting in New York. He would go on to help presidents and senators, to pioneer a slashing style of television advertising, and to build a generation of protégés.

Finkelstein isn’t as famous as his contemporary Roger Ailes, but he is a hidden link that runs through the contemporary Republican Party, leading from the libertarian icon Ayn Rand to the cynicism of Richard Nixon and finally on to Trump. Finkelstein was a New York City kid. The son of a cab driver, he met Rand while he was a student at Columbia University in the early 1960s. He went on to work briefly as a computer programmer on Wall Street before becoming an early exponent of the art of polling toward the end of the decade.


Chester Higgins Jr. for the New York Times
From left: Paul Curran, a one-time Republican candidate for governor of New York, Whitney North Seymour, the former US attorney for the Southern District in New York, and Arthur Finkelstein, June 8, 1983.

It was back then that Finkelstein started developing a political method that now reads like a how-to guide for modern right-wing populism. Finkelstein’s premise was simple: Every election is decided before it even begins. Most people know who they will vote for, what they support, and what they oppose. It’s very difficult to convince them otherwise, Finkelstein believed. It’s a lot easier to demoralize people than to motivate them. And the best way to win is to demoralize your opponent’s supporters. That’s what Trump did to great effect against Hillary Clinton, and what he meant when, after the election, he thanked black Americans for not voting.

Finkelstein had long been studying the big political trends, and he settled on simple issues that could do the most damage. In the end, he noticed, it usually comes down to the same concerns: drugs, crime, and race. These are the issues that create the most political division, he wrote in a memo to the Nixon White House in 1970.

Finkelstein’s goal was to polarize the electorate as much as possible, to pitch each side against the other. The fuel: fear. “The danger has to be presented as coming from the Left,” a 25-year-old Finkelstein advised Nixon.

Whoever doesn’t attack first will be beaten, he argued. And Finkelstein made things personal. Every campaign needs an enemy to defeat. He developed negative campaigning into a technique he called “rejectionist voting” — to demonize the enemy so much that even the laziest of voters would want to get out and vote, just to reject them.

In TV campaigns opponents were branded as “ultra liberal,” “crazy liberal,” “embarrassingly liberal,” or “too liberal for too long.”
Finkelstein would also advise his clients not to talk about themselves, but instead to focus their campaigning on destroying their opponents. He became notorious for turning “liberal” into a dirty word. In TV campaigns that no 1990s American could avoid, opponents were branded as “ultra liberal,” “crazy liberal,” “embarrassingly liberal,” or “too liberal for too long.” Campaigners named his ideology “Finkel-Think.” It was simple but effective. Friends of Finkelstein have often claimed that nobody got more politicians elected than he did.

Controversy occasionally surrounded his work. In the 1980s, while working for a Republican candidate, he was criticized for polling voters to see what they thought of the Jewish identity of his Democrat opponent.

By the time of his death in 2017, Finkelstein had left an indelible mark on national politics, having worked for Barry Goldwater, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan. While working as a central campaign member for Reagan in 1980, a strangely gloomy advertisement appeared: “Let’s make America great again.”

He reportedly did some work for the Trump Organization in the mid-2000s — and later spoke of the “mind-boggling” power of Trump’s personality. When Trump finally ran for president, his campaign was stuffed with “Arthur’s kids” and friends: Larry Weitzner, Tony Fabrizio, and his old buddy Roger Stone.

Birnbaum was one of Arthur’s kids. After graduating from Florida Tech in the early ’90s, he first came into Finkelstein’s orbit in DC when the latter was working at the National Republican Senatorial Committee. It was Birnbaum’s job to bring Finkelstein the latest polling numbers each morning. Everything Finkelstein did was based on analysis of his polls, Birnbaum remembered, who said no one could see the patterns like Finkelstein.

Birnbaum was blown away by Finkelstein’s brain, and his insights. But he also discovered the other Arthur.

To the outside world, Finkelstein was an enigma, the strategist who worked for the right. But in private he was a friendly, fun, brilliant, and yet unpretentious man, full of anecdotes from the innermost circles of power. Raised in a Jewish family in Queens, he made jokes about kosher rules. He was a nerd with the chest pocket of his blue button-down shirt full of pens and notes.

In the otherwise stuffy world of politics, Finkelstein kept his tie loose and could often be seen walking around the office in his socks. He could do that because he was seen as the right half of the right’s brain. Finkelstein once told a friend that Reagan’s chief of staff thanked him in writing for “keeping your shoes on most of the time” while in the Oval Office. Finkelstein’s passion was elections. Politics reminded him, he told students in Prague, of “waves on a beach that look alike, but over time are always different.” His love, however, was for his two daughters — and for a man. Finkelstein, who helped get radical Republican gay-haters elected, was gay. He married his partner of more than 40 years in 2004, and they were together until Finkelstein’s death.

A year after Birnbaum first met Finkelstein, he bumped into him again in an anonymous hallway of the NRSC. He told him that he wanted to work for him, to do polling for him. And he spoke Hebrew, too, if he would ever have a project in Israel.


Afp / AFP / Getty Images
Right-wing Likud opposition leader Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres, May 26, 1996, in Tel Aviv.

The assassination of the Israeli prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin, on Nov. 4, 1995, was a turning point for the country — and for Finkelstein and Birnbaum.

When elections for his successor were hastily arranged, a newcomer threw his hat into the ring. Benjamin Netanyahu, a right-wing former corporate consultant, was given no chance. He was running against Shimon Peres, a legendary figure, a Social Democrat from the founding generation of Israel who wanted to continue Rabin’s peace process, which most people hoped would succeed.

Israelis initially sneered at Netanyahu’s ambitions, and polls put him 20% behind. But seemingly out of nowhere, Netanyahu’s Likud party started carpeting the country with sinister ads. “Peres will divide Jerusalem” went the slogan, even though Peres had no such intention. Similar attacks targeting Peres appeared on TV, on the radio, and in the press.

In the final TV debate, Peres stepped into the trap laid by Finkelstein. The first thing he did was to try to clarify that he had no desire to divide Jerusalem — the exact topic Finkelstein wanted him to raise. Netanyahu owned the debate.

On Election Day, the race between Peres and Netanyahu looked too close to call. Around 10 p.m. the TV stations reported a very close win for Peres, based on early projections. According to a biography of Netanyahu, he grabbed the phone and called “Arthur” — his secret campaign manager. Finkelstein was in New York, but answered immediately, and told Netanyahu he shouldn’t be worried. “I always win the close ones.”

When the final count came in, Netanyahu was the new prime minister: 50.49% to 49.51%.

“Arthur always said that you did not fight against the Nazis but against Adolf Hitler. Not against al-Qaeda, but against Osama bin Laden.”
Netanyahu’s win made Finkelstein a star. He “changed campaigning forever,” according to the Haaretz newspaper. He had learned too that his formula could work outside North America. Finkelstein’s expertise became much sought after.

In 1998 Birnbaum received a call. It was Finkelstein, asking whether he would like to work for the Likud party in Israel, a dream come true for Birnbaum. It was here that the two became a team, with Finkelstein as captain and Birnbaum his first mate. While Finkelstein traveled between New York and Israel, Birnbaum kept watch in Israel, where he became the chief of staff for Netanyahu, organizing his appearances, representing him in front of the press, and sometimes even babysitting his kids.

The triumph in Israel marked the beginning of a new era. It was then that Finkelstein turned to Europe, and an even closer collaboration with Birnbaum. From 2003 onward, the two men worked together as global political consultants, applying Finkelstein’s formula to Eastern Europe and the Balkans, starting with successful election campaigns in Romania and Bulgaria.


Debbie Hill / AFP / Getty Images
Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán shakes hands with Netanyahu, July 19, 2018.

Finkelstein and Birnbaum’s electoral masterpiece was created in Hungary, and would have implications around the world.

It began in 2008, when Orbán decided to seek reelection. His old friend Bibi — as Netanyahu is known — introduced him to the two people who would guide his success. Before long, Finkelstein and Birnbaum were applying their formula to Orbán’s election campaign — and then turbocharging it.

Enemies were easy to find in Hungary. The country was an economic basket case and had to be bailed out in 2008. Austerity measures were demanded by their creditors at the World Bank, the EU, and the IMF. Finkelstein and Birnbaum told Orbán to target “the bureaucrats” and “foreign capital.”

Orbán won the 2010 election with a two-thirds majority as the country shifted to the right. Birnbaum is still amazed today how easy it was: “We blew the Socialist party off the table even before the election.”

“You need to keep the base energized, make sure that on Election Day they have a reason to go out and vote.”
Birnbaum and Finkelstein, now part of Orbán’s inner circle, found themselves with a problem. While the satisfied winner of the election started rewriting the constitution, they were now lacking an opponent. “There was no real political enemy … there was no one to have a fight with,” Birnbaum remembered. The ultra-right Jobbik party and the Socialist party were beaten, the rest in splinters. “We had had an incumbent with a historic majority, something that had never happened in Hungary before.” To maintain that, they needed a “high energy level,” said Birnbaum. “You need to keep the base energized, make sure that on Election Day they have a reason to go out and vote,” he said. They needed something powerful, like Trump’s “Build the Wall!”

“It always helps rally the troops and rally a population” when the enemy has a face, Birnbaum explained. “Arthur always said that you did not fight against the Nazis but against Adolf Hitler. Not against al-Qaeda, but against Osama bin Laden.” Who could become that enemy in Hungary now that Orbán was in power — and wanted to stay there?

Orbán was busy creating a new, more dramatic story of the nation. Hungary, which had collaborated with the Nazis, was painted as a victim, surrounded by external enemies, under perpetual siege, first from the Ottomans, then the Nazis, and later the Communists. Hungary’s mission was clear: to defend against its enemies, and to preserve Christianity against encroaching Islam and secular forces.

Against this backdrop, Finkelstein had an epiphany. What if the veil of the conspiracy were to be lifted and a shadowy figure appear, controlling everything? The puppet master. Someone who not only controlled the “big capital” but embodied it. A real person. A Hungarian. Strange, yet familiar.

That person was Soros, Finkelstein told Birnbaum.

Birnbaum was mesmerized: Soros was the perfect enemy.

At the beginning, it almost didn’t make sense. Why campaign against a nonpolitician? Although he was born in Hungary, Soros hadn’t lived there in years. He was an old man, known all over the country as a patron of civil society. He had supported the opposition against the Communists before the fall of the Iron Curtain, and financed school meals for kids afterward. In Budapest, he had built one of the best universities in Eastern Europe.


Olivier Hoslet / AFP / Getty Images
George Soros

Orbán had even received money from Soros: During his time in the opposition, his small underground foundation Századvég published critical newspapers, created on a copy machine that was paid for by Soros. Orbán was also one of the more than 15,000 students who received scholarships from Soros’s Open Society Foundations. Thanks to Soros, Orbán studied philosophy in Oxford. The two men only met once: when Soros came to Hungary in 2010 after a toxic spill to provide $1 million in emergency funds.

There didn’t really seem to be a reason to turn against him in Hungary.

But Finkelstein and Birnbaum saw something in Soros that would make him the perfect enemy. There’s a long history of criticism of Soros, dating back to 1992, when Soros earned $1 billion overnight betting against the British pound. For many on the left, Soros was a vulture. But Soros used his sudden prominence to push for liberal ideas. He supported everything the right was against: climate protection, equality, the Clintons. He opposed the second Iraq War in 2003, even comparing George W. Bush to the Nazis, and became a major donor for the Democrats. He was soon a hate figure for the Republicans.

But there was more. Finkelstein and Birnbaum had expanded their work into exactly those countries where the Open Society Foundations was trying to build liberal local elites and civil rights movements: Ukraine, Romania, the Czech Republic, Macedonia, Albania. Birnbaum believed Soros stood for “a socialism that is wrong for these areas.” According to Birnbaum, Finkelstein was more practical about his opposition to Soros, whom he saw as simply a means to an end: “It wasn’t an emotional thing.”

It didn’t take much for the two consultants to convince Orbán to take on Soros — the Hungarian prime minister had “an enormous amount of trust in Arthur’s intellect,” said Birnbaum. The anti-Soros campaign was useful for Orbán — and not just domestically. Externally, it would please his Russian neighbors. Putin was afraid of the so-called color revolutions like the one in Ukraine, and the Arab Spring, and had begun attacking Soros and his support for liberal causes.

The two men’s work for Orbán is now part of Hungary’s political legend. Finkelstein is an almost mythical figure, not least because Orbán has barely mentioned his role in public. His spokespeople did not reply to requests for comment about Finkelstein and Birnbaum.

Birnbaum was similarly unforthcoming about the exact details of the work they did for Orbán. He didn’t want to discuss whether they had drafted slogans or just simple concepts, nor would he say how much control they had over the campaign itself.

The public campaign against Soros began in earnest on Aug. 14, 2013, around nine months ahead of the next election. It started relatively quietly, with an article in the government-aligned newspaper Heti Válasz attacking NGOs that were said to be controlled by Soros.

Next, the Hungarian government went after the allegedly Soros-controlled environmental organization Ökotárs, which received Norwegian and Swiss funding. Police stormed their offices and confiscated computers, while the government opened an investigation into their activities. The Hungarian investigators would eventually come up empty — but not before they had succeeded in spreading the image of a shadowy network of foreign NGOs run by Soros.

“The perfect enemy is one that you can punch again and again and he won't punch back.”
Orbán and his team didn’t stop there. By 2015, the European refugee crisis, in part stimulated by the war in Syria, had emboldened nationalists across the continent. So when Soros argued that the EU needed to develop a “common plan” for the treatment of refugees, and prepare for a million asylum-seekers per year, he became a welcome target once more for Orbán’s team. On Oct. 30, 2015, Orbán made a speech in which he claimed Soros wanted to weaken the country and flood it with refugees.

The attacks came thick and fast after that. Any organization that had ever received money from the Open Society Foundations was painted as “Soros controlled.” Employees of the NGOs were described by government press as “mercenaries,” financed by foreign powers. All of that was done through a series of sensational articles and official responses from members of government.

A crescendo was reached in July 2017, when the whole country was plastered with ads showing Soros’s face and the slogan “Don’t let George Soros have the last laugh!”

The slogan “Stop Soros” was repeated endlessly, everywhere. Manipulated photos showed him walking hand in hand with allies through a fence: Orbán’s fence, constructed to stop refugees crossing into Hungary. Orbán claimed Soros maintained a mafia network.

In the fall of 2017 the administration conducted a “national consultation.” Millions of citizens received questionnaires, in which they could choose whether or not they supported the “Soros plan” to allow a million people from Africa and the Middle East to enter Europe per year.

It worked. A huge part of the country turned against Soros. Orbán won in 2014 and 2018, both times with an overwhelming majority.

Soros was trapped. “The perfect enemy is one that you can punch again and again and he won't punch back,” said Birnbaum. If Soros had struck back, it would have just played into their hands, confirming that he had power and influence, said Birnbaum. Soros and the Open Society Foundations have tried to counter accusations and attacks, and have even sued the Hungarian government in the European Court of Human Rights, but they couldn’t enter the political arena. It would be unthinkable for the 87-year-old Soros to run against Orbán. “Mr. Soros is not a politician,” said his assistant Michael Vachon.

Despite everything that followed, Birnbaum is proud of the campaign against Soros: “Soros was a perfect enemy. It was so obvious. It was the simplest of all products, you just had to pack it and market it.”

The product was so good, it sold itself and went global. In 2017, Italians started talking about Soros-financed immigrant boats arriving on the shores. In the US, some people suspected Soros was behind the migrant caravan entering from Central America. A Polish member of parliament called Soros the “most dangerous man in the world.” Putin referred dismissively to Soros during a press conference with Trump in Helsinki. Trump even claimed that the demonstrations against Supreme Court candidate Brett Kavanaugh were sponsored by Soros.

Today Finkelstein and Birnbaum’s work in Hungary has echoes everywhere. Birnbaum denied the suggestion that he had run anti-Soros campaigns outside of Hungary. But perhaps he didn’t have to. Anyone could pick up the ideas and run with them. Finkelstein and Birnbaum had turned Soros into a meme. Right-wing sites like Breitbart, or the Kremlin-controlled Russia Today, could simply adopt the Hungarian campaign, translate it into other languages, and feed it with local arguments.

If right-wing movements want to campaign today, they can source Soros material from the internet. Anti-Soros material is a globalized, freely available, and adaptable open-source weapon. Birnbaum said it was the common denominator of the nationalist movement.


Robert Atanasovski / AFP / Getty Images
Soros was a target of demonstrators in Macedonia in 2017, when the country was debating whether Albanian should become an official language.

Orbán’s campaign against Soros never actually used the word Jew, but it was often implicit. Orbán told his people they would have to fight against an “enemy” who was “different,” who didn’t have a “home.” It was common to see anti-Semitic graffiti on the “Stop Soros” ads — voters knew what they were being told.

Finkelstein and Birnbaum created a Frankenstein monster that found a new life on the internet. In that stew are the resentments for his assault on communism, and allegations that he’s a communist; anti-Jewish slurs and charges he’s a Nazi; and above all the old mix of European anti-Semitism.

If you search today for Soros, you will immediately find images of his head with octopus tentacles, another classic anti-Semitic motif. Even Netanyahu’s son Yair posted an anti-Semitic meme in 2017 showing Soros and reptilians controlling the world.

“Our campaign did not make anyone anti-Semitic who wasn’t before. Maybe we were just drawing a new target, not more. I would do it again.”
Members of the Jewish community in Hungary began to protest the Stop Soros campaign in 2017. The Israeli ambassador condemned it. When Zoltan Radnoti, a prominent Hungarian rabbi, learned that the campaign was led by two members of the Jewish community, he was shocked.

The anti-Semitism that sprang out of the Soros campaign might not be too surprising, even if Finkelstein and Birnbaum did not intend it. They imported ancient themes and modern grievances into 21st-century communications technology. What was new: They had turned Soros into their central political enemy.

The allegation that he was responsible for anti-Semitism pains Birnbaum. He just doesn’t see it. He decided to speak primarily because he wants to refute it. He is, after all, an observant Jew and member of many pro-Israeli charities.

“When we planned the campaign,” he said, “we didn’t think a second about Soros being a Jew.” Birnbaum claimed he didn’t even know it back then, and that he never worked with anti-Semites.

Before working with Orbán, he checked in with informed circles in Israel to see how Orbán felt about Jews. He didn’t hear anything that would put him off — on the contrary, he said, Orbán had fought against anti-Semitism and had even given his first daughter the Jewish name “Rahel.”

After all, “can I not attack someone because he is a Jew?” Birnbaum asked.

Whatever their intention, the anti-Soros invective has only increased, sometimes with deadly consequences. In October 2018, a Trump supporter sent a parcel bomb to Soros. Five days later a gunman entered a synagogue in Pittsburgh, killing 11 people. The attacker saw himself as part of a fight against a Jewish conspiracy, which he believed was funding mass migration, and talked about the caravan and Soros on social media.

When asked if the Soros campaign in Hungary had stoked this anti-Semitism, Birnbaum admitted that with the benefit of hindsight, “it looks really bad,” but at the time it was the right decision to target Soros, he said.

Some months after the meeting in Berlin, Birnbaum went to the Trump hotel in DC, where a friend, Trump’s former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, was presenting his new book, Trump’s Enemies. Kellyanne Conway dropped by. Caviar was being sold, $100 per ounce. Birnbaum chatted with the other guests and ordered a Moscow mule.

Had he changed his mind about the Soros campaign? Any regrets?

“Anti-Semitism is something eternal, indelible,” said Birnbaum. “Our campaign did not make anyone anti-Semitic who wasn’t before. Maybe we were just drawing a new target, not more. I would do it again.” ●

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Reeq
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266. "great article."
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navajo joe
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261. "Fed Government turned down company's offer to make 7 mil N95 masks (link..."
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Sat May-09-20 02:58 PM by navajo joe

          

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/in-the-early-days-of-the-pandemic-the-us-government-turned-down-an-offer-to-manufacture-millions-of-n95-masks-in-america/2020/05/09/f76a821e-908a-11ea-a9c0-73b93422d691_story.html


Mike Bowen, vice president of Prestige Ameritech, stands with a truckload of masks to be sent to MD Anderson Cancer Center. (Elizabeth Givens)
By
Aaron C. Davis
May 9, 2020 at 12:06 p.m. EDT
It was Jan. 22, a day after the first case of covid-19 was detected in the United States, and orders were pouring into Michael Bowen’s company outside Fort Worth, some from as far away as Hong Kong.

Bowen’s medical supply company, Prestige Ameritech, could ramp up production to make an additional 1.7 million N95 masks a week. He viewed the shrinking domestic production of medical masks as a national security issue, though, and he wanted to give the federal government first dibs.

“We still have four like-new N95 manufacturing lines,” Bowen wrote that day in an email to top administrators in the Department of Health and Human Services. “Reactivating these machines would be very difficult and very expensive but could be achieved in a dire situation.”

But communications over several days with senior agency officials — including Robert Kadlec, the assistant secretary for preparedness and emergency response — left Bowen with the clear impression that there was little immediate interest in his offer.

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“I don’t believe we as an government are anywhere near answering those questions for you yet,” Laura Wolf, director of the agency’s Division of Critical Infrastructure Protection, responded that same day.

Bowen persisted.

Sign up for our Coronavirus Updates newsletter to track the outbreak. All stories linked in the newsletter are free to access.

“We are the last major domestic mask company,” he wrote on Jan. 23. “My phones are ringing now, so I don’t ‘need’ government business. I’m just letting you know that I can help you preserve our infrastructure if things ever get really bad. I’m a patriot first, businessman second.”

Rick Bright, former director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, alleges he was removed from his job and reassigned to a lesser role because he tried to “prioritize science and safety over political expediency.”
Rick Bright, former director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, alleges he was removed from his job and reassigned to a lesser role because he tried to “prioritize science and safety over political expediency.” (Department of Health and Human Services/AP)
In the end, the government did not take Bowen up on his offer. Even today, production lines that could be making more than 7 million masks a month sit dormant.

Bowen’s overture was described briefly in an 89-page whistleblower complaint filed this week by Rick Bright, former director of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority. Bright alleges he was retaliated against by Kadlec and other officials — including being reassigned to a lesser post — because he tried to “prioritize science and safety over political expediency.” HHS has disputed his allegations.

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Emails show Bright pressed Kadlec and other agency leaders on the issue of mask shortages — and Bowen’s proposal specifically — to no avail. On Jan. 26, Bright wrote to a deputy that Bowen’s warnings “seem to be falling on deaf ears.”

That day, Bowen sent Bright a more direct warning.

“U.S. mask supply is at imminent risk,” he wrote. “Rick, I think we’re in deep s---,” he wrote a day later.

The story of Bowen’s offer illustrates a missed opportunity in the early days of the pandemic, one laid out in Bright’s whistleblower complaint, interviews with Bowen and emails provided by both men.

Within weeks, a shortage of masks was endangering health-care workers in hard-hit areas across the country, and the Trump administration was scrambling to buy more masks — sometimes placing bulk orders with third-party distributors for many times the standard price. President Trump came under pressure to use extraordinary government powers to force private industry to ramp up production.

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Nurses protest shortage of protective gear
Standing six feet apart, nurses gathered in front of the White House on April 21 to read aloud the names of health-care workers who died of the coronavirus. (Zoeann Murphy/The Washington Post)
In a statement, White House economic adviser and coronavirus task force member Peter Navarro said: “The company was just extremely difficult to work and communicate with. This was in sharp contrast to groups like the National Council of Textile Organizations and companies like Honeywell and Parkdale Mills, which have helped America very rapidly build up cost effective domestic mask capacity measuring in the hundreds of millions.”

Carol Danko, an HHS spokeswoman, declined to comment on the offer by Bowen and other allegations raised in the whistleblower complaint. Wolf also declined to comment on the whistleblower complaint.

A senior U.S. government official with knowledge of the offer said Bowen, 62, has a “legitimate beef.”

“He was prescient, really,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to describe internal deliberations. “But the reality is didn’t have the money to do it at that time.”

Another HHS official, also speaking on the condition of anonymity, said: “There is a process for putting out contracts. It wasn’t as fast as anyone wanted it to be.”

Prestige Ameritech employee Saengdara Phanvilay inspects in 2009 a machine that makes surgical masks. The company had increased production of the masks due to demand from the swine flu outbreak.
Prestige Ameritech employee Saengdara Phanvilay inspects in 2009 a machine that makes surgical masks. The company had increased production of the masks due to demand from the swine flu outbreak. (Tom Pennington/Getty Images)
A voice in the wilderness
Two decades ago, the low-slung factory in Texas was part of a supply conglomerate that produced almost 9 in 10 medical and surgical masks used in the United States.

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Bowen was a new product specialist at the plant back then, and he watched as industry consolidations and outsourcing shifted control of the plant from Tecnol Medical Products to Kimberly-Clark and then shuttered it altogether. In less than a decade, almost 90 percent of all U.S. mask production had moved out of the country, according to government reports at the time.

Bowen and Dan Reese, a former executive at Tecnol, went into business together in 2005 and eventually bought the plant, believing a market remained for a dedicated domestic manufacturer of protective gear.

In the wake of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Congress appropriated $6 billion to buy antidotes to bioweapons and the medical supplies the country would need in public health disasters. An obscure new government organization called the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, or BARDA, was among the agencies purchasing material for what would become the Strategic National Stockpile.

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Bowen began studying BARDA, attending its industry conferences and searching for a way in to press his case.

In the parlance of BARDA, Bowen was seeking a “warm base” contract. The government would pay a premium to have masks manufactured domestically, but his company would keep its extra factory lines in working order, meaning production could be ramped up in an emergency.

Bowen said he soon concluded that BARDA’s focus was trained elsewhere, on billion-dollar deals to induce manufacturing of vaccines for the most exotic disasters, such as weaponized attacks with anthrax or smallpox.

Before pandemic, Trump’s stockpile chief put focus on biodefense. An old client benefited.

Still, as Bowen moved down the supply chain, appealing directly to hospitals to buy his domestic-made masks, his sales pitch often ended with a plea to call BARDA.

Bowen often carried PowerPoint slides from a 2007 presentation by BARDA and its parent division at HHS, the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response. One had a table showing that, in the event of a pandemic, the country would need 5.3 billion N95 respirator masks, 50 times more than the number in the stockpile. The presentation concluded: “Industrial surge capacity of will not be able to meet need and supplies will be short during a pandemic.”

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Bowen said he felt like a voice in the wilderness.

“The world just looked at me as a mask salesman who was saying the sky was falling,” he said, “and they would say, ‘Your competitors aren’t saying that in China.’ ”

Surgical masks are packed in boxes at Prestige Ameritech in 2009.
Surgical masks are packed in boxes at Prestige Ameritech in 2009. (Tom Pennington/Getty Images)
After Trump’s election, Bowen hoped the new president’s America-first mentality might trickle down to operations like his. He wrote a letter to Trump and addressed it to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue: “90% of the United States protective mask supply is currently FOREIGN MADE!” it began.

“I didn’t think Trump would read it, but I thought someone would and take note,” Bowen said.

Texas maskmaker caught in coronavirus’s supply-chain panic

He also called Bright, who had been appointed to lead BARDA just before Trump took office. “In 14 years of doing this, there have been maybe four people in government who I felt like really understood this issue,” Bowen said. “Rick was one of them.”

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In Trump’s first year, however, Bowen grew newly disillusioned. During a week that the White House touted its “Buy American, Hire American” initiative, Bowen lost a military contract worth up to $1 million, to a supplier that would make many of the masks in Mexico, he said.

“Shame on the Department of Defense! One of these days the US military will need America’s manufacturers to help win another war or fight another pandemic — and they will not exist,” Bowen wrote on Aug. 17, 2017, to Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Clark, a senior official with the Pentagon’s Defense Health Agency.

Clark, who retired last year, did not respond to a message seeking comment.

Proposal to produce goes nowhere
For Bowen, the first signs of trouble came in mid-January. Online orders through his company’s website, typically totaling maybe $2,000 a year and accounting for only a fraction of his business, suddenly skyrocketed to almost $700,000 in a few days.

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On Jan. 20, Bowen also fielded a call from the Department of Homeland Security, urgently seeking masks for airport screeners. Bowen said he did not have masks in stock to fill the order, but the call led him to contact Bright to tell him about the surge in demand for masks. “Is this virus going to be problematic?” Bowen wrote.

Inside HHS, Bright quickly passed Bowen’s on-the-ground observations to a group that included Wolf, the director of the agency’s Division of Critical Infrastructure Protection.

“Can you please reach out to Mike Bowen below? He is a great partner and a really good source for helpful information,” Bright wrote on Jan. 21.

“Thanks Rick,” she replied. “We are tracking and have begun to coordinate with fda, niosh, and manufacturers today. More to follow tomorrow. Thinking about masks, gowns (inc those in shortage), gloves, and eye protection.”

Within a day, Bowen sent an email to Wolf laying out what Prestige could do. The company’s four mothballed manufacturing lines could be restarted with large noncancelable orders, he wrote.

“This is NOT something we would ever wish to do and have NO plans to do it on our own,” he wrote. “I’m simply letting you know that in a dire situation, it could be done.”

Over the next three days, Bowen kept HHS officials informed as orders for a million masks came in from intermediaries for buyers in China and Hong Kong. On Jan. 26, he sent the email warning that the U.S. mask supply was at “imminent risk.”

Bright forwarded it that day to Kadlec and others, urging action: “We have been watching and receiving warnings on this for over a week,” he wrote.

The next day, Bright wrote to his deputy asking him to explore whether BARDA could divert money earmarked for vaccines and other biodefense measures to instead buy masks.

Trump says ousted federal scientist is a ‘disgruntled employee’
President Trump on May 8 dismissed a complaint from Rick Bright, a federal scientist who previously led the agency working on a coronavirus vaccine. (The Washington Post)
From his end, Bowen said his proposal seemed to be going nowhere. “No one at HHS ever did get back to me in a substantive way,” Bowen said.

The senior U.S. official said Bowen’s idea was considered, but funding could not easily be obtained without diverting it from other projects.

Bowen started talking to reporters about the mask shortage in general terms. He was soon invited to appear on former Trump adviser Stephen K. Bannon’s podcast: “War Room: Pandemic.”

On the Feb. 12 podcast, the two commiserated over the beleaguered state of U.S. manufacturing. “What I’ve been saying since 2007 is, ‘Guys, I’m warning you, here’s what is going to happen, let’s prepare,’ ” Bowen said on the program. “Because if you call me after it starts, I can’t help everybody.”

Bowen said Bannon put him in touch with Navarro, the White House economic adviser.

Navarro was quick to see the problem, Bowen said. After talking with Navarro, Bowen wrote to Bright that he should soon expect a call from the White House, “I’m pretty sure that my mask supply message will be heard by President Trump this week,” Bowen wrote. “Trump insider reading yesterday’s Wired.com article, the ball is screaming toward your court.”

According to Bright’s complaint, he soon began attending White House meetings and helping Navarro write memos describing the supply of masks as a top issue. Emails and memos attached to the complaint show Bright reporting back to Kadlec and others about his work with Navarro.

None of it turned the tide for Bowen.

Nearly a month after his emailed offer, Bowen received his first formal communication about possibly helping to bolster the U.S. supply. The five-page form letter from the Food and Drug Administration — one Bowen said he suspected was sent to many manufacturers — asked how his company could help with what was by then a “national emergency response” to the shortage of protective gear.

Bowen responded on Feb. 16, by firing off a terse email to FDA and HHS officials. He directed the agencies to a U.S. government website listing approved foreign manufacturers of medical masks. “There you’ll find a long list of . . . approved Chinese respirator companies,” he wrote. “Please send your long list of questions to them.”

In March, Bowen submitted a bid to supply masks to the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which by then had taken over purchasing.

The government soon spent over $600 million on contracts involving masks. Big companies like Honeywell and 3M were each awarded contracts totaling for over $170 million for protective gear. One distributor of tactical gear — a company with no history of procuring medical equipment — was awarded a $55 million deal to provide masks for as much as $5.50 a piece, eight times what the government was paying months earlier.

On April 7, FEMA awarded Prestige a $9.5 million contract to provide a million N95 masks a month for one year, an order the company could fulfill without activating its dormant manufacturing lines. For the masks, Prestige charged the government 79 cents a piece.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Mon May-11-20 11:13 AM

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264. "why isnt the press more curious about *why* this is happening?"
In response to Reply # 261


          

the testing/ppe/etc issues are being treated as basic incompetence.

but the president of the united states and his administration are proactively issuing widespread guidance to *stand down* when it comes to helping americans survive a health crisis. these arent missteps. these are the steps.

theres no downside to invoking the defense production to increase the distribution of medical equipment across the country. in fact theres a huge upside for the presidents image and his re-election campaign. yet they still refuse to do it. but they immediately invoked the dpa to keep meat processing plants open despite deadly outbreaks at those plants.

its time the press starts at least considering/exploring the worst possible (but right now maybe the most logical) motive...they just want people (or a certain group of people) to get sick and/or die.

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Mon May-11-20 05:28 PM

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267. "Trump answers the tough questions (link)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

No, he didn't he ended the press conference and ran away.

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1259956132967301121

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Mon May-11-20 07:51 PM

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268. "nvm."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon May-11-20 08:05 PM by Reeq

          

.

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Mon May-11-20 07:56 PM

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269. "This needs a real source"
In response to Reply # 268
Mon May-11-20 07:57 PM by navajo joe

          

Letterman writer with 'don't quote me...seriously don't' in the bio won't cut it.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Mon May-11-20 08:06 PM

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270. "yeah it was a joke."
In response to Reply # 269


          

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Mon May-11-20 08:10 PM

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271. "You playin' with my emotions"
In response to Reply # 270


          

Problem with that joke is:

1. It isn't funny
2. It often creates unnecessary controversy/distraction/outrage


I hate when we own goal ourselves on dumb shit

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Tue May-12-20 09:04 AM

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272. "Live Coverage of Senate Committe Hearing with Fauci Testimony"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/1260208399305801729?s=20

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Tue May-12-20 04:13 PM

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273. "LA to keep stay at home order in place through July"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1260275851804864512?s=19

_______________________________________

  

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Mynoriti
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38812 posts
Tue May-12-20 05:34 PM

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275. "we're getting used to no smog and traffic"
In response to Reply # 273


  

          

  

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RandomFact
Member since Dec 10th 2005
8710 posts
Tue May-12-20 05:57 PM

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276. "Slow, rolling open unique to LA County. Nothing has changed."
In response to Reply # 273
Tue May-12-20 05:59 PM by RandomFact

  

          

Typical LA Times clickbait headline. They've been doing that throughout the pandemic. Need to get that click revenue up because no one is paying to get beyond their paywall. So misleading (but effective it seems).

LA County is the most populous county in the United States. Roughly the same population as the entire country of Sweden. And a larger (and denser) population than most states. The rollout here will be slower. But that does not mean people will be forced to stay home all day. Beaches in the county are set to open tomorrow. Hiking trails opened over the weekend. Small non-essential businesses opened for curbside pickup this past weekend. The rollout will continue to be slow over the next three months. Shit ain't gonna be anywhere close to normal until at least the beginning of August. This is not groundbreaking news.

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-county-stay-at-home-order-likely-to-be-extended-through-july-to-fight-coronavirus/

“Our hope always is that we’re able by using the data to be able to lift restrictions slowly over the next three months,” Ferrer said at the meeting.

^ this is the relevant piece of information that needs to be understood.





  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Tue May-12-20 04:20 PM

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274. "Cal State Univ system (23 campuses) plan to cancel fall in person classe..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-12/coronavirus-reopening-csu-fall-online-classes

The 23-campus California State University system plans to all but cancel in-person classes in the fall and instead will offer instruction primarily online, Chancellor Timothy White announced Tuesday.

The vast majority of classes across the Cal State system will be taught online, White
said, with some limited exceptions that allow for in-person activity. The decision comes as schools throughout the country grapple with how long to keep campuses closed amid the coronavirus crisis.

“Our university when open without restrictions and fully in person… is a place where over 500,000 people come together in close and vibrant proximity,” White said at a meeting of Cal State’s Board of Trustees. “That approach sadly just isn’t in the cards now.”

_______________________________________

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Wed May-13-20 07:25 AM

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277. "The Four Men Responsible For America’s COVID-19 Test Disaster (Swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Scathing piece on why we're where we are. It also gives key background on the some of the principal figures in yesterday's Senate HELP hearing.

The fact that the Fed government failed so badly and still has NO plan.


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/covid-19-test-trump-admin-failed-disaster-995930/

The Four Men Responsible For America’s COVID-19 Test Disaster

The White House’s inability to track the disease as it spread across the nation crippled the government’s response and led to the worst disaster this country has faced in nearly a century

By TIM DICKINSON

This story appears in the June 2020 issue of Rolling Stone.


Dr. Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for Disease Control, flanked Donald Trump at the podium in the White House briefing room. It was February 29th, the day of the first reported U.S. death from the coronavirus, and the president fielded an urgent question: “How should Americans prepare for this virus?” a reporter asked. “Should they go on with their daily lives? Change their routine? What should they do?”

In that moment, America was flying blind into a pandemic; the virus was on the loose, and nobody quite knew where. The lives of tens of thousands hinged on the advice about to be delivered by the president and his top public-health advisers. Trump began: “Well, I hope they don’t change their routine,” before he trailed off, and, quite uncharacteristically, called on an expert to finish the response. “Bob?” he said. “Do you want to answer that?”

A tall man, with a tan, freckled head, and a snow-white chinstrap beard, Redfield stepped to the podium. “The risk at this time is low,” Redfield told the country. “The American public needs to go on with their normal lives.”

RELATED
A man wears a face mask as he check his phone in Times Square on March 22, 2020 in New York City. - Coronavirus deaths soared across the United States and Europe on despite heightened restrictions as hospitals scrambled to find ventilators. (Photo by Kena Betancur / AFP) (Photo by KENA BETANCUR/AFP via Getty Images)
Rolling Stone Timeline: Coronavirus in America
Welcome to the Trumpocalypse
This reassurance came at precisely, and tragically, the wrong time. With a different answer, much of the human devastation that was about to unfold in the United States would have been avoidable. Academic research from Imperial College in London, modeling the U.S. response, estimates that up to 90 percent of COVID-19 deaths could have been prevented had the U.S. moved to shut down by March 2nd. Instead, administration leaders dragged their feet for another two weeks, as the virus continued a silent, exponential assault. By early May, more than 75,000 Americans were dead.

Even as he spoke, Redfield knew the country should be taking a different course. The Coronavirus Task Force had resolved to present the president with a plan for mitigation efforts, like school and business closures, on February 24th, but reportedly reversed course after Trump exploded about the economic fallout. Instead, the CDC director continued touting “aggressive containment” to Congress on February 27th. Experts tell Rolling Stone that ship had sailed when the virus made the leap from infected travelers into the general public. “If you’ve got a community spreading respiratory virus, it’s not going to be containable,” says Dr. Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security. “You have to shift to mitigation right away.”

Patty Murray is the ranking member of the Senate’s top health committee, and represents Washington state, the nation’s first coronavirus hot spot. She blames the administration for a delay that “overwhelmed the health care system and resulted in tens of thousands of deaths.” And she singles out Redfield, in particular, for “dereliction of duty.”

Despite months of alarms that the coronavirus was lurking at our doorstep, the Trump administration failed to mount an urgent response until the nation was engulfed and overwhelmed by the pandemic.

“We had ample notice to get our country ready,” says Ron Klain, who served as President Obama’s Ebola czar, and lists the rolling out of testing, securing protective equipment, and building up hospital capacity as necessary preventative steps. “We spent all of January and February doing none of those things, and as a result, when this disease really exploded in March, we weren’t prepared.”

The government leaders who failed to safeguard the nation are CDC Director Redfield; FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn; Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar; and of course, President Trump. Together, these men had the power to change the direction of this pandemic, to lessen its impact on the economy, and constrain the death toll from COVID-19. Each failed, in a series of errors and mismanagement that grew into a singular catastrophe — or as Jared Kushner described it on Fox & Friends, “a great success story.”

Defeating an invisible enemy like the coronavirus requires working diagnostics. But when the CDC’s original test kit failed, there was no Plan B. The nation’s private-sector biomedical establishment is world-class, but the administration kept these resources cordoned behind red tape as the CDC foundered. Precious weeks slipped by — amid infighting, ass covering, and wasted effort — and the virus slipped through the nation’s crippled surveillance apparatus, taking root in hot spots across the country, and in particular, New York City.

The mismanagement cost lives. With adequate testing from the beginning, says Dr. Howard Forman, a Yale professor of public-health policy, “we would have been able to stop the spread of this virus in its tracks the way that many other nations have.” Instead, says Sen. Murray, the administration’s response was “wait until it’s too late, and then try and contain one of the most aggressive viruses that we’ve ever seen.”

Blind to the virus’s penetration and unable to target mitigation where it was needed, the administration and state governors had to resort to the blunt instrument of shuttering the economy, says Dr. Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute. And the lack of testing kept us in limbo. “Our economy is shut down because we still do not have adequate testing,” Jha says. “We have been woefully behind from the beginning of this pandemic.”

If the president’s deputies made trillion-dollar mistakes, accountability for the pandemic response lies with Trump, who waived off months of harrowing intelligence briefings, choosing to treat the coronavirus as a crisis in public relations, rather than a public-health emergency. Having staked his re-election on a strong economy, Trump downplayed the virus.

To the horror of public-health experts, America remains rudderless in the crisis. Obama’s CDC director, Tom Frieden, says “you can look back with 20/20 hindsight on lots of things.” But even months into the response — and despite Vice President Mike Pence nominally at the helm of the Coronavirus Task Force — Frieden says he can’t discern who is actually in charge of the federal response, “and that’s dangerous.”

The coronavirus would be a devilish test of any president’s leadership, but Trump has failed beyond measure. And the errors are metastasizing. “The failed coronavirus response is not a story of mistakes that were made and have now been fixed,” Klain says. “It’s the story of mistakes that continue to cost lives.”

THE ZEALOT
The front-line agency built to respond to a pandemic, the CDC, was placed in unreliable hands. Dr. Robert Redfield is a right-wing darling with a checkered scientific past. His 2018 nomination was a triumph for the Christian right, a coup in particular for evangelical activists Shepherd and Anita Smith, who have been instrumental in driving a global AIDS strategy centered on abstinence.

Redfield’s tight-knit relationship with the Smiths goes back at least three decades, beginning when Shepherd Smith recruited him to join the board of his religious nonprofit, Americans for a Sound AIDS/HIV Policy (ASAP). The Smiths made their views plain in the 1990 book Christians in the Age of AIDS, which argued HIV infection resulted from “people’s sinfulness,” and described AIDS as a consequence for those who “violate God’s laws.” Redfield, a devout Catholic who was then a prominent HIV researcher in the Army, wrote the introduction, calling for the rejection of “false prophets who preach the quick-fix strategies of condoms and free needles.”

President Donald Trump, accompanied by Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, left, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield, right, speaks during a visit to the CDC in Atlanta, Friday, March 6, 2020. Trump signed an $8.3 billion emergency spending bill to confront the coronavirus outbreak on Friday morning and decided to visit the CDC in Atlanta, reversing his decision hours earlier to skip touring the nerve center of the government's response to the health crisis. (T.J. Kirkpatrick/The New York Times)
President Donald Trump, accompanied by Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, left, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield, right, speaks during a visit to the CDC in Atlanta, Friday, March 6, 2020. Trump signed an $8.3 billion emergency spending bill to confront the coronavirus outbreak on Friday morning and decided to visit the CDC in Atlanta, reversing his decision hours earlier to skip touring the nerve center of the government’s response to the health crisis.

T.J. Kirkpatrick/The New York Times/Redux

Redfield was a rising star at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research, whose name had been floated as a candidate for surgeon general. But the late 1980s were benighted times in the AIDS epidemic, and Redfield championed discriminatory policies that he defended as “good medicine” — including quarantining of HIV-positive soldiers in a segregated barracks. These soldiers were routinely given dishonorable discharges after superiors rooted out evidence of homosexuality, and left to suffer the course of their devastating disease without health insurance. “It was dark,” remembers Laurie Garrett, the Pulitzer Prize-winning author of The Coming Plague, who reported on Redfield’s actions. “It was the opposite of compassion.”

Redfield’s Army career derailed after he was accused of “sloppy or, possibly, deceptive” research for touting a trial HIV therapy that later proved useless. An investigation found no wrongdoing, but called out his “inappropriately close” relationship with Shepherd Smith, who also hyped the drug. Redfield insisted there was “no basis for any of the allegations,” but the scandal spurred his departure to a research lab at the University of Maryland.

Still, Redfield’s résumé — religious-right bona fides, a military background, and a knack for ingratiating himself with powerful people — primed his return to government. “Over the years, there have been several attempts to push him into powerful slots within Republican administrations,” says Garrett. “I don’t think most of his promoters have ever been particularly interested in the science.”

When his CDC appointment was announced in March 2018, Sen. Murray warned of Redfield’s “pattern of ethically and morally questionable behavior,” as well as his “lack of public-health expertise,” and urged Trump to “reconsider.” But the CDC post does not require Senate approval. Redfield sought to reassure CDC staff that his views had modernized, and that he now embraced condoms to slow HIV infection. He insisted at an all-hands meeting, “I’ve never been an abstinence-only person.” In point of fact, Redfield co-authored a 1987 textbook, AIDS & Young People, that preached abstinence until marriage, writing that “medicine and morality tell us the same thing.” It warned, in all caps, against the notion of safe sex: “IF YOU ENGAGE IN CLOSE SEXUAL CONDUCT, YOU ARE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH YOUR LIFE.”

THE INSIDER
The CDC reports to the Department of Health and Human Services, led by Alex Azar, a former executive for the pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly who gained infamy, in his five-year tenure, by doubling the price of insulin.

Azar is a creature of the GOP establishment: He cut his teeth as a Supreme Court clerk to Antonin Scalia, worked with Brett Kavanaugh on the Clinton-Whitewater investigation under special counsel Ken Starr, and served as a deputy HHS administrator in the George W. Bush era, before becoming Eli Lilly’s top lobbyist. Azar, 52, is the type of corporate leader Republicans have long touted as capable of driving efficiencies in the unwieldy federal bureaucracy. Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell praised Azar’s nomination in 2017, insisting, “Alex brings a wealth of private-sector knowledge that will prepare him well for this crucial role.”

Azar sought to shrink the CDC, an agency that has been on the chopping block throughout the Trump administration. In HHS’s most recent budget proposal — unveiled this past February, 10 days after the World Health Organization declared a global emergency over the coronavirus — Azar sought an $85 million cut to the CDC’s Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases program and a $25 million cut to Public Health Preparedness and Response. Azar defended the budget at the time as making “difficult, prudent choices.”

The Trump administration had also hollowed out the CDC’s China presence, slashing staff from 47 to barely a dozen. These cuts were part of a broad-reaching drawdown of America’s disease preparedness, including Trump’s decision to disband the National Security Counsel’s pandemic-response team. In late 2018, Azar’s HHS rejected a proposal, solicited by the Obama administration, to buy a machine capable of churning out 1.5 million N95 respirators a day, for use in a pandemic.

Despite this austerity crusade, the CDC’s initial response to the outbreak was by the book. On January 3rd, Redfield spoke with Chinese colleagues about a mysterious viral outbreak causing a rash of pneumonia cases in Wuhan, and immediately informed Azar. On January 11th, the Chinese published the genetic sequence of the novel coronavirus, and the CDC began creating a diagnostic test.

The CDC wasn’t alone in this effort. Research labs across the country were racing to come up with their own assays. “Every molecular virologist I knew had a test before the CDC did,” says Dr. Donald Milton, who runs the Public Health Aerobiology, Virology, and Exhaled Biomarker Laboratory at the University of Maryland. By January 16th, a German company had produced a reliable diagnostic that WHO would adopt as its own. Five days later, the CDC announced it had a working test — which it used to diagnose the first known U.S. coronavirus patient, a Wuhan traveler near Seattle.

Rick Bright directed HHS’s Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority until his ouster in April. In a whistleblower complaint, he reveals he warned Azar on January 23rd that the virus could already be spreading in the U.S. but “we just don’t have the tests to know one way or the other.” Bright accuses HHS leadership of “a lax and dismissive attitude” toward the coronavirus, and singles out Azar for “downplaying this catastrophic threat.”

Hailing from the establishment wing of the GOP, Azar didn’t have much juice with Trump. He did not reach the president to discuss the outbreak until January 18th. Another 10 days would pass before the White House created a Coronavirus Task Force, with Azar at the helm. Two days later, Azar declared a public-health emergency.

This emergency declaration had the confounding effect of slowing the testing rollout. Normally, private and university labs can make their own diagnostic tests without approval by the Food and Drug Administration. But these labs become “paradoxically more regulated during an emergency,” says Adalja, the Johns Hopkins doctor. Azar had activated strict regulations that made the FDA the gatekeeper for coronavirus-test approval. But there was a big problem: The gate operator was new on the job, and painfully slow to pull the lever.

UNREADY AT THE FDA
Stephen Hahn had been on the job at the FDA for barely a month. A bald, 60-year-old of modest height, Hahn has an impeccable résumé — he served as chief medical executive at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center — but he had no experience running a government agency.

The need to engage the private sector for coronavirus testing was not only foreseeable, it was foreseen — by Trump’s first FDA commissioner, Scott Gottlieb. In a January 28th Wall Street Journal article, “Act Now to Prevent an American Epidemic,” Gottlieb warned that the “CDC will struggle to keep up with the volume of screening.” He said the government must begin “working with private industry to develop easy-to-use, rapid diagnostic tests.”

If Hahn read his predecessor’s call to action, he did not act on it. Hahn did not lack authority; the FDA has broad discretion to relax the rules that were locked into place with Azar’s declaration. But Azar had, unaccountably, not included Hahn on the Coronavirus Task Force. By default, private test developers were now required to obtain an “emergency-use authorization” from the FDA to deploy COVID-19 testing. “Companies couldn’t make their own lab-developed tests,” Adalja says, “so you had Quest and LabCorp and the big-university labs on the sidelines.”

U.S. President Donald Trump speaks with FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn during the daily coronavirus disease (COVID-19) task force briefing at the White House in Washington, U.S., April 19, 2020. REUTERS/Al Drago - RC208G9M26I5
U.S. President Donald Trump speaks with FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn during the daily coronavirus disease (COVID-19) task force briefing at the White House in Washington, U.S., April 19, 2020.

Al Drago/REUTERS

FDA officials would not speak on the record, but in extended background interviews, they defended the FDA’s role in regulating lab tests as both righteous and desirable. They described an agency whose doors were always open to private companies that wanted to develop testing, and denied that Hahn’s inexperience hobbled the FDA’s response. Hahn did not agree to be interviewed, but said in a statement that the FDA was engaged “at the earliest stages of the coronavirus outbreak and at no point was FDA excluded. FDA and HHS have been hand in hand in our aggressive response.”

Yet the failure to activate the private sector was the key difference between the U.S. response to the coronavirus and that of South Korea, which first detected the virus in its country at the same time the U.S. did. “Instead of going through regulatory hijinks,” says Milton, the University of Maryland virologist, South Korea “turned their biomedical industry loose, and they started producing lots of tests right away.” With this massive rollout — including drive-through testing clinics for patients with mild symptoms — South Korea got in front of its outbreak. At the beginning of May, South Korea had recorded fewer than 11,000 cases and 250 COVID-19 deaths. The United States, Milton insists, missed the window to activate its biomedical might to achieve the same result. “We have that capability,” he says. “We could have done that.”

THE BLACK-SWAN EVENT
With the private sector offline, the stakes for the CDC test could not have been higher. The CDC had a peerless reputation. Despite its underfunding, it was considered a crown jewel of public-health agencies.

“Starting with the CDC test makes perfectly good sense,” says Kathleen Sebelius, who served as HHS secretary in the Obama administration. The CDC performed ably during the H1N1 outbreak on her watch. “Within two weeks of knowing what H1N1 looked like,” she recalls, “the CDC had millions of test kits to push out to the states and around the world.” There was little reason to think that the CDC could not perform the same in this crisis.

The CDC — itself subject to FDA regulation — obtained emergency approval of its own test on February 4th and began shipping out kits, manufactured in its own laboratories, to roughly 100 public-health labs across the country. The CDC test was complex, including two steps that tested for genetic markers of the novel coronavirus, and a third meant to rule out other known coronaviruses. But when state labs began testing, the unthinkable happened: The third prong failed, providing inconclusive results.

Scott Becker is the executive director of the Association of Public Health Laboratories, the umbrella group that represents these labs and helps them interface with the CDC. On the morning of February 8th, a Saturday, his cellphone began blowing up with messages from member labs. “I started to see this string of the problems, and I thought, ‘Oh, my God, this can’t be happening,’” Becker says. “To me, it was the same moment of ‘Where were you on 9/11?’ because of the enormity of what we knew was coming. If this test had a problem, we were weeks behind.” He was stung by the realization that “we were not going to be able to contain this.”

For the CDC, and the public labs that depend on its tests, this was a black-swan event on top of a global pandemic. An incredibly infectious respiratory virus was poised for a mass outbreak, and the surveillance system needed to contain it was broken. It was as if enemy ballistic missiles were incoming and NORAD had gone offline.

The crisis was acute: The U.S. had a single test for the coronavirus, and it could only be run at the CDC’s Atlanta headquarters, as well as a handful of state labs that had been able to make assay work. This bottleneck would require extreme rationing of tests, to patients who’d traveled to foreign hot spots and tested negative for other diseases. The criteria were so strict that the CDC allegedly refused a test to a nurse who fell ill after treating COVID patients.

There was another, well-functioning test on the global market, of course. At the same time the CDC was sending its flawed tests to U.S. labs, WHO was distributing 250,000 of its test kits to laboratories across the world. Sebelius, Obama’s HHS secretary, insists that Azar should have recognized the bottleneck at the CDC and bypassed the agency until it sorted out its failed test. “It’s a real problem that we didn’t immediately pivot to the WHO test, which we know was working very well,” Sebelius says. “We could have purchased a lot of those and pushed them out.” HHS, working with the FDA, should also have taken that moment to call in the private-sector cavalry. “We could have opened up the private-lab capacity,” she says. “And we didn’t do any of that.”

One might excuse Alex Azar for his failure to manage up. At the time the CDC tests began to fail, Trump was in the throes of denial, praising President Xi of China on Twitter — “He is strong, sharp and powerfully focused on leading the counterattack on the Coronavirus” — and predicting the disease “goes away in April with the heat.”

But Azar proved equally hapless at managing down. Instead of engineering a workaround to the unreliable CDC test, or leaning on his private-sector connections to jump-start commercial testing, Azar insisted that the original kit be fixed. He reportedly rejected use of the WHO test, out of concern that the test was unreliable. (CDC and HHS officials also underscored that the WHO test, itself, would have had to go through the sticky wicket of FDA regulation.)

The impulse at Redfield’s CDC was to slow down, Becker says, to guard against producing a second, flawed batch of test kits. Hahn’s FDA, meanwhile, was focused on its role as the CDC’s regulator, intent on rooting out the flaw in the original test it had approved. The agencies were soon enmeshed in a bureaucratic struggle so toxic that an FDA diagnostic expert sent in to troubleshoot was briefly locked out of CDC facilities. (HHS blames a scheduling conflict.)

In interviews with Rolling Stone, FDA officials accused the CDC of providing incomplete and misleading information, of downplaying the number of public labs that were unable to run the test, and of signaling to the FDA that the CDC would be able to fix the problem on its own. A CDC representative, in turn, claimed that the FDA slowed the CDC’s response by throwing up redundant regulatory hurdles. The FDA would ultimately conclude that the “CDC did not manufacture its test consistent with its own protocol” and that a “manufacturing issue” — believed to be contamination at the CDC’s lab — rather than a design defect, was responsible for the flawed results.

Sebelius says it is par for the course for bureaucracies to seize up in a crisis: “The default position is do nothing, to stand behind the regs, and say, ‘We can’t move.’ ” But she insists that the foot-dragging and finger-pointing had a solution: leadership at the parent agency, HHS, by Azar. “I can guarantee you that the secretary can get their attention,” she says.

Kerry Weems is a former career official at HHS, who served with Azar in leadership posts during the Bush administration — and helped draw up that White House pandemic playbook. He says HHS got stuck trying to undo the failure. “It’s a human thing,” he says. “When you start out on a path, you have a tendency to stick to it.” The playbook says the CDC produces the test and the FDA approves it. “That’s the gold standard. And we just got stuck with path dependence, and didn’t move beyond that.”

The crisis dragged on for weeks. Publicly, the CDC put on a brave face. “We’re fully stood up at CDC,” Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center of Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said on February 21st. “There is no lag time for testing.” Messonnier continued to point to false positives as the major threat: “We obviously would not want to use anything but the most perfect possible kits.”

But the far greater danger was already apparent to anyone following the news. Days earlier, China had locked down 780 million people. The alternative to adequate testing was a blanket quarantine.

Azar declined to be interviewed. In a statement, a HHS representative said, “Secretary Azar has always insisted that the full resources of the Trump administration be marshaled to combat COVID-19. Any insinuation that Secretary Azar did not respond with needed urgency to the response or testing efforts are just plain wrong and disproven by the facts.”

Outside the administration, top health officials were exasperated. Becker tried to break the gridlock, writing to Hahn on February 24th with an “extraordinary and rare request” that the nation’s public-health labs be allowed to create their own tests — sidestepping the CDC. “We are now many weeks into the response with still no diagnostic test available,” Becker warned.

Yet this sense of alarm was not reflected at the top. In Senate testimony on February 25th, Azar insisted the administration was delivering. “I’m told the diagnostic doesn’t work,” Sen. Murray said, challenging Azar. The HHS secretary shot back. “That’s simply, flatly incorrect,” he said, pointing to the CDC’s own ability to run the test. Azar then began spouting Trumpian self-praise, celebrating the “historic” response to the virus. “No administration,” he said, “no CDC in American history, has delivered like this.”

Weems disagrees starkly. “I hope the CDC remembers this for decades,” he says, “because they failed. This is what they were built for — and they failed.”

Behind closed doors, top administration officials were starting to grapple with the seriousness of what the United States was facing — and to understand, at least intuitively, what the CDC’s failed testing regime was hiding: Containment of the coronavirus was failing, and economy-crippling mitigation would soon be necessary.

By Valentine’s Day, the National Security Council had reportedly developed a memo offering social-distancing guidelines, including school closures, “wide-spread ‘stay at home’ directives” and “cancellation of almost all sporting events, performances, and public and private meetings.” The role of asymptomatic carriers in spreading the coronavirus was becoming clearer, leading a top HHS official to warn of “a huge hole on our screening and quarantine effort.” By February 24th, the Coronavirus Task Force, Redfield included, had reportedly resolved to recommend a plan to Trump called “Four Steps to Mitigation.” But before Trump could be briefed, Messonnier had the grave misfortune of telling the truth. In a February 25th briefing with reporters, she warned of a wide coronavirus outbreak in the United States: “It’s not so much a question of if this will happen anymore, but rather more a question of exactly when.” She cautioned that under social-distancing measures, many Americans could lose income and that “disruption to everyday life may be severe.”

“Dr. Messonnier’s statements were right on,” says Frieden, the former CDC head, who says he relied on her as one of the nation’s top public-health specialists in respiratory viruses. But after Messonnier’s comments contributed to massive stock-market losses, Trump thew a fit. He exploded at Azar and reportedly threatened to fire the CDC scientist.

Trump soon announced a major change of course. Pence would be taking over the task force, sidelining Azar. Trump himself minimized the threat of the disease, calling coronavirus “a flu,” and insisted that infections had peaked: “We have a total of 15 people” diagnosed with COVID-19, he said. “The 15, within a couple of days, is going to be down to close to zero.”

Pence was a dubious choice to head the task force. As a governor, he shared Redfield’s moral objection to free needles for those living with drug addiction — a stance that inflamed an HIV epidemic among opioid users in Indiana on his watch. But with the change in leadership on the task force, the wheels of government suddenly came unstuck.

In a maddening update on February 26th, the CDC informed public labs that they could go ahead and run their original test kits — and simply disregard the problematic third prong. The original diagnostic tests, in other words, had been reliable all along. Frieden, the former CDC director, remains incredulous at how this unfolded: “It took them three weeks to say, ‘Just don’t use the third component!’”

The FDA simultaneously offered state labs a pathway to create their own tests, a route New York state used to develop its own high-speed test. Hahn had, at last, been added to the task force, and on February 29th, the FDA announced it would let private labs develop their own tests, subject to retroactive approval. “They had just taken the gate down,” Becker says, “and said, ‘Go. Run. Get started.’” The public-labs chief never got an explanation as to why. “They just changed their policy,” he says.

The testing breakdown had left the nation blind to the true scope of the outbreak. By March 1st, the CDC’s official tally of coronavirus cases had spiked from the 15 cases touted by Trump to 75. But researchers at Northeastern University have now developed models showing there were likely 28,000 infections at the time, in just five major cities, including New York and Seattle. The Seattle Flu Study — bucking red tape from the FDA and CDC — had begun a rogue effort to test swab samples it had collected using its own lab-developed test. By early March, the testing had uncovered a bevy of undiagnosed coronavirus infections. Dr. Helen Chu, the project’s lead scientist, told The New York Times that she realized then, with horror, “It’s just everywhere already.”

At this moment, shutting down the economy was inevitable — it was just a question of when the measures would be implemented. But scientists believe up to 90 percent of the human toll was still avoidable, had the government moved immediately to implement social-distancing measures. Instead, the administration persisted in its “Do nothing” message parade.

On March 6th, at the CDC headquarters in Atlanta, Redfield again stood by the president’s side. “I want to thank you for your decisive leadership, in helping us put public health first,” he told Trump, who wore a red keep america great cap. Redfield again called the risk from the coronavirus “low” and insisted the U.S. had only an “isolated number of clusters.” He then made a claim that would be comical if it were not so tragic: “It’s not as if we have multiple, multiple — hundreds and hundreds of clusters” across the country. “I mean, we’re not blind where this virus is right now in the United States.” The next day, appearing with Pence and cruise-industry executives, Redfield encouraged American travelers to keep their reservations, and even to visit Disneyland. Within the week, the administration’s denial crashed into the reality of the exploding pandemic. Disney shut its parks; Trump declared a state of emergency. Finally, on March 16th, the administration rolled out social-distancing guidelines to “slow the spread,” and the nation’s economy started grinding to a halt.

Redfield declined to be interviewed. A representative for the CDC defended his conduct, insisting that Redfield had been “closely tracking the global spread of COVID-19” from the outbreak’s early days, that his comments were “based upon available data at the time,” and that “at no time did he underestimate the potential for COVID-19 becoming a global pandemic.”

A PRESIDENT ADRIFT
Having plunged the nation headlong and unprepared into the deadliest disease outbreak in a century, President Trump is now proving to be one of the greatest obstacles to an effective national response.

Sebelius ultimately blames Trump for failing to end the infighting and fix the testing failure. “The White House has a unique way to get agencies’ attention, by making it clear that they want a solution, and everybody at the table with that solution within 24 hours,” she says. “If the president wants this to happen, it will happen.” But on his visit to the CDC in Atlanta, Trump had made an extraordinary admission: That he did not want to let passengers from a cruise ship, then suffering an outbreak off the California coast, to come on shore because the tally of patients would rise. “I like the numbers being where they are,” Trump said.

Those comments hit Sebelius like a punch in the gut. Trump plainly saw effective testing as a threat to his political messaging that the administration was containing the virus. By standing at CDC headquarters to declare that the tests were “perfect” and that he didn’t want COVID-19 numbers going up, the president was doing the exact opposite of demanding a fix. For the president’s deputies, Sebelius says, “there couldn’t be a clearer signal.”

The nation’s public labs were not fully up and running on the CDC test until March 8th, according to HHS, about the time Quest and LabCorp finally began testing in their labs. The Swiss pharmaceutical giant Roche did not receive FDA approval for its high-speed, high-volume test until March 13th. This initial delay in getting testing off the ground didn’t just set the country back in real time, says Johns Hopkins’ Adalja: “That’s still why we’re playing catch up. If you constrain our biggest source for diagnostic expertise and capacity, it’s no surprise that we ended up in the situation that we’re in.”

Trump has extraordinary powers to set the country on a better course — but he hasn’t used them. “What has been really terrifying to watch is that the federal government has refused to use the unique purchasing authority, the unique production authority, that no state can mobilize,” Sebelius says. What’s more, rather than supporting governors, Trump has been undermining them, “creating a system of chaos and competition, as opposed to collaboration, that has made the situation worse for most states.”

That includes states with Republican governors. Charlie Baker of Massachusetts had a shipment of medical equipment seized at customs by FEMA, and was forced to rely on a private plane, owned by the New England Patriots, to fly in a shipment of masks from China. In Maryland, Gov. Larry Hogan resorted to buying 500,000 coronavirus tests from South Korea and stashing them in an undisclosed location under watch by the National Guard.

Frieden, the former CDC chief, says that what’s required to contain the pandemic — and begin reopening the economy — is a “box it in” approach, with four components: widespread testing; isolating positive cases; contact tracing to identify people likely to have been infected; and quarantining those same people. The White House put this strategy into practice after a top aide to the vice president, Katie Miller, tested positive, and several Coronavirus Task Force members, including Redfield and Hahn, put themselves in quarantine on May 9th.

Rolling out this practice nationally would be a sophisticated undertaking, requiring coordination that had not, into May, materialized from the White House. After failing to provide anything more than a gesture at a framework for reopening in late April, the administration began pushing states to rev up their economies. It did this despite internal CDC projections that COVID-19 deaths were on track to hit 3,000 a day by June 1st, while blocking release of a science-based CDC playbook for opening schools, restaurants, churches, and mass transit.

Sen. Murray says Trump and Pence have abdicated their responsibility in this crisis: “No one is putting together a plan!” She recalls a recent conversation with Pence. “He couldn’t even tell me how many tests they need. If you don’t have a goal, how do you produce it?” Experts believe the country needs a minimum of 1 million tests a day to safely reopen; through April, it rarely exceeded 200,000 a day.

Sebelius, herself a former governor of Kansas, insists that it is mission-critical for the United States to begin acting like the United States. “We absolutely have to have a plan of what happens between now and when we finish a national vaccination campaign,” Sebelius says. “If every state is on their own trying to figure this out, we’ll have a total nightmare.”

In the event that Trump is still president when a vaccine becomes available, Sebelius argues that the loose confederations that have formed in the Northeast, Midwest, and Pacific states to coordinate their reopenings may need to band together in a shadow government to sidestep Trump. “Maybe governors will put together their own system,” she says, “and ignore what’s happening in the White House.”

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Wed May-13-20 11:18 AM

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278. "Trump and task force pushing CDC to reduce # of deaths counted (link)"
In response to Reply # 0
Wed May-13-20 11:19 AM by navajo joe

          

notice they aren't pushing to reduce actual deaths. This is by design.

Keep an eye on Birx.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/team-trump-pushes-cdc-to-dial-down-covid-death-counts?source=twitter&via=desktop

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Wed May-13-20 11:43 AM

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279. "Whistleblower warns US of 'darkest winter in modern history' in testimon..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

Dr. Bright who was fired by Trump and has filed a whistleblower complaint is testifying before House committee tomorrow. Axios has transcript of his opening statement. I've included the link to it here as well.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6889630-Testimony-Bright-Protecting-Scientific-Integrity.html

https://www.axios.com/rick-bright-testimony-opening-statement-6817ae7a-5196-4357-b83c-d3ff96990efd.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100

Ousted vaccine chief to warn "window of opportunity is closing" for virus response
Fadel Allassan

A top vaccine doctor who was ousted from his position in April is expected to testify Thursday that the Trump administration was unprepared for the coronavirus, and that the U.S. could face the "darkest winter in modern history" if it doesn't develop a national coordinated response, according to prepared testimony first obtained by CNN.

The big picture: Rick Bright, the former head of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), will tell Congress that leadership at the Department of Health and Human Services ignored his warnings in January, February and March about a potential shortage of medical supplies.

He will testify that HHS "missed early warning signals" and "forgot important pages from our pandemic playbook" early on — but that "for now, we need to focus on getting things right going forward."
Bright's testimony also reiterates claims from a whistleblower report he filed last week that alleges he was ousted over his attempts to limit the use of hydroxychloroquine — an unproven drug touted by President Trump — to treat the coronavirus.
What he's saying: Bright will testify he urged HHS to ramp up production of
masks, respirators and medical supplies as far back as January. Those warnings were dismissed, Bright says, and he was "cut out of key high-level meetings to combat COVID-19."

"I continue to believe that we must act urgently to effectively combat this deadly disease. Our window of opportunity is closing. If we fail to develop a national coordinated response, based in science, I fear the pandemic will get far worse and be prolonged, causing unprecedented illness and fatalities."
Bright will call for a national strategy to combat the virus, including "tests that are accurate, rapid, easy to use, low cost, and available to everyone who needs them."

"Without clear planning and implementation of the steps that I and other experts have outlined, 2020 will be darkest winter in modern history."

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Wed May-13-20 04:42 PM

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280. "this and the cdc calculation shit"
In response to Reply # 279


          

along with republicans muzzling scientists, statisticians, and the people who keep/report the various covid-19 information...should be receiving far more coverage than this obamagate bullshit.

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79515 posts
Thu May-14-20 01:16 PM

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281. "Right wingers swear this is all in an attempt to beat Trump"
In response to Reply # 279


          

even as it hits the West Wing.

These people so crazy it really scares me when it comes to this election. I still won’t believe Trump loses until he actually leaves office.

Cause right now it feels like even if he lost his supporters and the GOP wouldn’t recognize the election and just shrug and act like they won and the media would roll with it.

I hate these people.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Thu May-14-20 07:05 PM

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282. "."
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-14-20 07:12 PM by PimpTrickGangstaClik

          

.

_______________________________________

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Fri May-15-20 12:13 PM

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283. "RE: ."
In response to Reply # 282


          

This guy is on TV stating that America will have a vaccine available by the end of the year. He called it a warp speed vaccine. You can't make this up. WARP SPEED VACCINE.

No vaccine in the history of man has taken less than 3-5 years to be available to the public for use.

They still don't have a vaccine for Zika, and that outbreak was like 5 something years ago, and a vaccine for Ebola was just released last year.

He is really going to push incorrect information to aggressively push america's reopen

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri May-15-20 06:54 PM

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285. "the typa context the media needs to do a much better job reporting"
In response to Reply # 283


          

instead of just mindlessly parroting trumps claims in headlines:

>No vaccine in the history of man has taken less than 3-5 years
>to be available to the public for use.
>
>They still don't have a vaccine for Zika, and that outbreak
>was like 5 something years ago, and a vaccine for Ebola was
>just released last year.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri May-15-20 06:53 PM

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284. "i still cant believe we live in country dumb enough "
In response to Reply # 0


          

that shit like this will work on some people.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1261367748875227136

niggas really out here tryna prove their readiness by the size of trapper keepers fam.

actual death toll and infection rate be damned.

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Fri May-15-20 07:56 PM

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286. "87,000 U.S. dead as of 5/15/2020"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cdc-coronavirus-deaths-forecast-trump_n_5ebf26c2c5b6afa85f874820

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri May-15-20 09:07 PM

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287. "fam this shit looks like a real life haunted house or nightmare sequence"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://twitter.com/KevinVesey/status/1261001977598808065

like you cant even believe those are real people.

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Fri May-15-20 09:31 PM

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288. "and of course trump amplifies it."
In response to Reply # 287


          

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1261470041221902338

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Fri May-15-20 09:42 PM

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289. "it's horrifying on its face. the president saying journalism isn't essen..."
In response to Reply # 288


          

and supporting targeted and violent harassment of journalists is beyond the pale.

Remember Michael Cohen's testimony about how Trump operates and how he gets people to do what he wants. This tweet exemplifies that perfectly

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79515 posts
Sat May-16-20 12:22 PM

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290. "Anyone who thinks Trump cant win is fooling themselves. "
In response to Reply # 287


          

America is filled with some hateful, ignorant people.

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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allStah
Member since Jun 21st 2014
9816 posts
Sat May-16-20 12:42 PM

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291. "RE: Anyone who thinks Trump cant win is fooling themselves. "
In response to Reply # 290


          

With the way the Latinos and Black people are dying from the virus, the voting numbers from those communities will not be a factor in helping to compete against the republican party.


I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I am firm believer in science. However, I am starting to look at this as a form of biologic warfare. In the sense that, Caucasian people, especially trump supporters, are aggressively out in the open to intentionally spread it to cultures who are highly susceptible to dying from it. Ever since Covid 19 demographics were released illustrating that latinos and blacks were dying from the virus at a higher rate than Caucasians, republicans started pushing back against the strict quarantine measures.



  

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legsdiamond
Member since May 05th 2011
79515 posts
Sun May-17-20 05:28 PM

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293. "Not sure what to believe but these white folks are scary af"
In response to Reply # 291


          

and I see A LOT of women defending Trump at these events and online.

I don’t trust white woken at all when it comes to voting in their best interest... well, maybe this is in their best interest, ionno

****************
TBH the fact that you're even a mod here fits squarely within Jag's narrative of OK-sanctioned aggression, bullying, and toxicity. *shrug*

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Sun May-17-20 08:55 AM

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292. "Gov. Kemp apologizes after chart mistakenly shows downward trend (link)"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun May-17-20 08:58 AM by navajo joe

          

This is the third error in the last three weeks.

https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/just-cuckoo-state-latest-data-mishap-causes-critics-cry-foul/182PpUvUX9XEF8vO11NVGO/

By Willoughby MarianoJ. Scott Trubey, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Where does Sunday take place twice a week? And May 2 come before April 26?

The state of Georgia, as it provides up-to-date data on the COVID-19 pandemic.

In the latest bungling of tracking data for the novel coronavirus, a recently posted bar chart on the Georgia Department of Public Health’s website appeared to show good news: new confirmed cases in the counties with the most infections had dropped every single day for the past two weeks.

In fact, there was no clear downward trend. The data is still preliminary, and cases have held steady or dropped slightly in the past two weeks. Experts agree that cases in those five counties were flat when Georgia began to reopen late last month.

The AJC’s redesigned COVID-19 data dashboard DPH changed the graph Monday after more than a day of online mockery, public concern and a letter from a state representative. Gov. Brian Kemp’s office issued an apology and its spokespeople said they’d never make this kind of mistake again.

“Our mission failed. We apologize. It is fixed,” tweeted Candice Broce, a spokeswoman for the governor.

This unforced error — at least the third in as many weeks — is confounding observers who have noted sloppiness in case counts, death counts and other measures that are fundamental to tracking a disease outbreak. Georgians check the data daily to decide whether it’s safe to reopen their businesses or send their children to daycare. Policymakers use it for decisions affecting the health of more than 10 million Georgians.

The x axis was set up that way to show descending values to more easily demonstrate peak values and counties on those dates. Our mission failed. We apologize. It is fixed.

In recent weeks, DPH data issues caused confusion over whether novel coronavirus deaths had topped 1,000 — they are now more than 1,490. The agency erroneously posted at least twice that children died.

Some of these errors could be forgiven as mistakes made during a chaotic time. But putting days in the wrong order, as the recently withdrawn chart did, makes no sense.

“It’s just cuckoo,” said state Rep. Scott Holcomb, D-Atlanta, who sent the letter outlining his concerns to the governor’s office on Monday. The bar chart that stirred the latest controversy was revised shortly afterwards. “I don’t know how anyone can defend this graph as not being misleading. I really don’t.

”A spokeswoman for DPH told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution that the chart was incorrect because of an error in how it sorted dates. An aide to the governor told Holcomb that a software vendor caused the problem, Holcomb said. A tweet from a Kemp spokesman said the data team behind the chart published it because they thought it would be “helpful.”Kemp spokeswoman Broce said the office does not dictate what data DPH publishes.“We are not selecting data and telling them how to portray it, although we do provide information about constituent complaints, check it for accuracy, and push them to provide more information if it is possible to do so,” said Broce.

Others worry the data is being portrayed in a way that favors Kemp’s early easing of restrictions. A separate graph on DPH’s page has led readers to think that cases were dropping dramatically, even though lower case numbers were the result of a lag in data collection.“

I have a hard time understanding how this happens without it being deliberate,” said State Rep. Jasmine Clark, D-Lilburn, who received her doctorate in microbiology and molecular genetics at Emory University. “Literally nowhere ever in any type of statistics would that be acceptable.”

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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mrhood75
Member since Dec 06th 2004
44709 posts
Sun May-17-20 10:31 PM

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294. "This motherfucker seriously put the days in the wrong order."
In response to Reply # 292


  

          

He can blow me with that "mistake."

-----------------

www.albumism.com

Checkin' Our Style, Return To Zero:

https://www.mixcloud.com/returntozero/

  

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PimpTrickGangstaClik
Member since Oct 06th 2005
15894 posts
Mon May-18-20 09:05 AM

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295. "Promising early results from vaccine trial"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/moderna-reports-positive-data-on-early-stage-coronavirus-vaccine-trial.html

Each participant received a 25, 100 or 250 microgram dose, with 15 people in each dose group. Participants received two doses of the potential vaccine via intramuscular injection in the upper arm approximately 28 days apart.


At day 43, or two weeks following the second dose, levels of binding antibodies in the 25 microgram group were at the levels generally seen in blood samples from people who recovered from the disease, the company said. Those in the 100 microgram had antibodies that "significantly exceeded levels" in recovered patients. Data on a second dose was not available for the 250 microgram group, the company said.

The vaccine also produced neutralizing antibodies against Covid-19 in at least eight participants, the company said. Experts have said neutralizing antibodies appear to be important in acquiring protection.

Four participants were assigned to receive a 25 microgram dose, while the other four received 100 micrograms. Levels of neutralizing antibodies were at or above levels seen in blood samples, the company said. Data on neutralizing antibodies for the other participants were not yet available, Moderna said.

"These interim Phase 1 data, while early, demonstrate that vaccination with mRNA-1273 elicits an immune response of the magnitude caused by natural infection starting with a dose as low as 25 ," Moderna chief medical officer Dr. Tal Zaks said in a statement.

"When combined with the success in preventing viral replication in the lungs of a pre-clinical challenge model at a dose that elicited similar levels of neutralizing antibodies, these data substantiate our belief that mRNA-1273 has the potential to prevent COVID-19 disease and advance our ability to select a dose for pivotal trials," Zaks added.


_______________________________________

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Mon May-18-20 06:59 PM

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296. "Donald Trump is taking an experimental drug - Fox is shook"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://www.axios.com/hydroxychloroquine-trump-fox-news-neil-cavuto-be0928c6-7313-407f-9d93-5fb16037b2b6.html

Immediately after President Trump revealed that he has been taking hydroxychloroquine as a preventative measure for the coronavirus, Fox News host Neil Cavuto warned viewers that the drug could have deadly consequences for patients with health risks: "It will kill you. I cannot stress enough."

Why it matters: The FDA issued a warning last month that hydroxychloroquine, which has not been proven to prevent coronavirus infections, could cause heart complications in positive COVID-19 patients.

What they’re saying: Cavuto cited multiple studies disproving Trump's claims on the drug's effectiveness in treating the virus, and he rebuked the president's suggestion that there is "nothing to lose."

"If you are in a risky population here, and you are taking this as a preventative treatment to ward off the virus, or worst-case scenario you are dealing with the virus, and you are in this vulnerable population, it will kill you. I cannot stress enough, this will kill you."
"This is a leap that should not be taken casually by those watching at home, or assuming, well the president of the United States says it's OK. ... I only make this not to make a political point here, but a life-and-death point. Be very, very careful."

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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calij81
Member since Jan 17th 2007
13928 posts
Mon May-18-20 08:58 PM

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297. "He is lying through his hydroxy-ass"
In response to Reply # 296


          

  

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walihorse
Member since Aug 03rd 2006
16125 posts
Tue May-19-20 06:46 AM

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298. "I can't wait for the no I didn't say that"
In response to Reply # 296


  

          

If a fat guy falls in the woods and there is no one around to see it, do the trees laugh?

  

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lonesome_d
Charter member
30443 posts
Tue May-19-20 07:54 AM

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299. "welp... Pops (age 80) tested positive yesterday, stuck in hospital Covid..."
In response to Reply # 0


          

we took him bc we thought he was having a stroke... good news was no stroke (though other brain issues)... bad news is the virus though.

Quite surprising considering the care we've taken. Vector is likely either me (I've been careful but have made a few store runs over the past three weeks) or one of his caregivers (only 4, but all of them also work in nursing homes or hospitals).

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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GNT1986
Member since Dec 09th 2011
136 posts
Tue May-19-20 09:15 AM

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300. "have (had?) covid"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I went down with it around April 12? 13?

Symptoms:

Low-Grade Fever (99.1 to 100.3, never the 100.4)
chills
body ache
head ache
dry cough
fatigue
chest pain/tightness
COVID toe w/o the rash, just the pain like I sprained my toes suddenly
Shortness of breath
Lightheadedness/disorientation
GI issues

My doctor cleared me to work from home on monday. I'm still dealing with chest pain/tightness, cough, shortness of breath, and occasional lightheadedness/disorientation.

I've been isolating alone and wow. It's fucked with me. a lot. Phone calls and texting and all that aside, late at night, when you're just trying to breathe through shit. Well. I've only been able to socially isolate because I live(d) alone. My ex-roommate (and landlord) moved back in Saturday because his girlfriend is giving birth and he had moved to another city for a job. I told him that I had COVID. He's not taking it seriously. He plans to bring his girl and their kid to the house later this week to live, post birth. I can't get over how stupid they are.

The most confusing thing about this has been how cyclical the progression of symptoms has been. It'll be bad, then I improve, then I get worse, then better, then worse, ad nauseam.

Today is the 5th day fever free.

I'm still isolating. And I'm really glad I started socially distancing shortly after Valentine's Day.

I'm worried about long-term cardiovascular and respiratory complications. My chest is killing me.

But I'm good enough to work.

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Wed May-20-20 10:31 AM

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302. "300 and 301, I hope you both recover"
In response to Reply # 300


          

That's bad news, I hope you can recover.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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GNT1986
Member since Dec 09th 2011
136 posts
Fri May-22-20 07:12 AM

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309. "RE: 300 and 301, I hope you both recover"
In response to Reply # 302


          

thanks for the well wishes

  

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lonesome_d
Charter member
30443 posts
Wed May-20-20 02:59 PM

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303. "Damn, man. Congrats on making it through - stay strong"
In response to Reply # 300


          

-------
so I'm in a band now:
album ---> http://greenwoodburns.bandcamp.com/releases
Soundcloud ---> http://soundcloud.com/greenwood-burns

my own stuff -->http://soundcloud.com/lonesomedstringband

avy by buckshot_defunct

  

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GNT1986
Member since Dec 09th 2011
136 posts
Fri May-22-20 07:13 AM

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310. "i appreciate it"
In response to Reply # 303


          

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Tue May-19-20 10:21 AM

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301. "Fla. COVID-19 Data Chief responsible for dashboard fired "
In response to Reply # 0


          

Rebekah Jones, the architect and manager of Fla. COVID-19 dashboard was fired on May 5th and control and publication of the dashboard was removed from her office. This was the exact dashboard that was lauded by the Trump administration.

Requests for previously available data by other scientists are now being rejected by the Florida Department of Health until 2021. Also, the Florida DOH has been excluding racial ethnic data from data tables despite it being reported by medical examiners.


https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2020/05/18/censorship-covid-19-data-researcher-removed-florida-moves-re-open-state/5212398002/

Coronavirus: As Florida re-opens, COVID-19 data chief gets sidelined and researchers cry foul

Late last Friday, the architect and manager of Florida's COVID-19 dashboard — praised by White House officials for its accessibility — announced that she had been removed from her post, causing outcry from independent researchers now worried about government censorship.

The dashboard has been a one-stop shop for researchers, the media and the public to access and download tables of COVID-19 cases, testing and death data to analyze freely. It had been widely hailed as a shining example of transparency and accessibility.

But over the last few weeks it had "crashed" and gone offline; data has gone missing without explanation and access to the underlying data sheets has become increasingly difficult.

The site was created by a team of Florida Department of Health data scientists and public health officers headed by Rebekah Jones. She announced last week her removal as of May 5 in a heartfelt farewell note emailed to researchers and other members of the public who had signed up to receive updates on the data portal.

Citing "reasons beyond my division’s control," Jones said her office is no longer managing the dashboard, is no longer involved in publication, fixing errors or answering questions "in any shape or form."

She warned that she does not know what the new team's intentions are for data access, including "what data they are now restricting."


"I understand, appreciate, and even share your concern about all the dramatic changes that have occurred and those that are yet to come," she wrote.

"As a word of caution, I would not expect the new team to continue the same level of accessibility and transparency that I made central to the process during the first two months. After all, my commitment to both is largely (arguably entirely) the reason I am no longer managing it."

Jones signed off, "It was great working with you guys. Good luck, and stay safe."

Jones did not respond to emailed requests to comment and the Department of Health did not reply to inquiries from FLORIDA TODAY regarding Jones' removal and access to data.

But researchers who have relied on unobstructed access to underlying raw data said they interpret Jones' removal as a clear indication of government censorship of science.

"We would not accept this lack of transparency for any other natural disaster, so why are we willing to accept it here?" said Jennifer Larsen, a researcher at the University of Central Florida's LabX.

Jones' removal and changes to the dashboard access is especially unusual given that the dashboard was lauded in April on CBS' Face the Nation by Dr. Deborah Birx, a top official of President Donald Trump's coronavirus task force.

"If you go to the Florida Public Health website on COVID, they’ve been able to show their communities’ cases and tests district by district, county by county, ZIP code by ZIP code," Birx said. "That’s the kind of knowledge and power we need to put into the hands of American people so that they can see where the virus is, where the cases are, and make decisions."

Jones was also profiled by Esri, the software company that provides the product used to build the interactive visualization.

"Jones packaged data for academic and private researchers who are also creating models to help predict and explore impacts," the company wrote.

“If you look at our data services, there’s a lot of publicly available data, because it’s critical information,” Jones said at the time. “The efforts in the academic community to do serious data modeling are crucial right now.”

Data access has not worsened further, yet, but researchers are sounding the alarm in response to Jones' email.

Restricting the data, UCF's Larsen said, is the equivalent of cutting off hurricane forecasts as a storm approached.

"It's all of us being denied access to what we need to know to be safe," she continued, adding "it's just absurd that this is being treated differently than any other threat to Floridians."

Professor Ben D. Sawyer, who is the director of LabX at UCF — a team of researchers, data scientists and engineers working to understand patterns in Florida's COVID-19 data that have practical applications — fears the data will become less available.

"The ability of scientists to help is directly related to how much access we're given to data," he said, warning that with less raw data, scientists will be able to produce less accurate, less useful work.

There's also "the worry that the scientists within government who can access the full data are being actively censored," he said."That's a real worry."

When Sawyer and Larsen tried requesting the previously available underlying data, DOH officials said that because the data are "provisional" no such requests would be considered until May 2021.

Yet the state regularly publishes provisional data, including for infectious diseases such as influenza.

"Transparent, unfettered access to valid and granular data is central to effective disease control and prevention," wrote Jay Wolfson, a Senior Associate Dean at the University of South Florida's Morsani College of Medicine.

While Wolfson does not advocate for data to be released in an uncontrolled manner, he said limitations on raw data or "provisional data" should simply be qualified. "Good science does this routinely."

For Wolfson there are at least two explanations behind restricting data. One is if the data are "too flawed" to be useful. The other "is that the data reveal information that could be disturbing or contrary to stated narratives."

"Either case poses dilemmas for the very way the public’s business is being conducted. And while economic measures are vitally important to the health of the state, the health of the people of the state ultimately determines the state’ economic success," Wolfson wrote.

Asal M. Johnson, an assistant Professor of Public Health at Stetson University, has also been frustrated with decreasing data access.


"If we can not download data, further analysis becomes increasingly difficult as you can not easily calculate incidence and prevalence rates. This type of independent research by universities is critical as it can help tax payers and residents to make informed decisions regarding their actions," she wrote in an email.

Johnson also was dismayed that racial and ethnic data has been consistently excluded from Florida's line listing of cases. Such data was reported by medical examiners, but that data table has also been censored by the Department of Health.

Citizens have a right to the data, Johnson said, and making it less accessible "further complicates the control of COVID-19."

As to why the DOH is restricting access to data at this time, Johnson could only speculate: "To undermine evidence-based decision making to prioritize (the) economy."

"However, they are pretending that public health is what has damaged (the) economy. They are getting it wrong; the economy is damaged because we ignored evidence to protect public health," she wrote, adding "They think they can save their own political interest by restricting information."

"If the governor and his team are not pleased with speculations like this, then they have no choice but being transparent. We, as Florida residents, have right to have access to clear and easy to analyze information."

Sawyer at UCF tends to agree.

"The worry is that Florida is open. And if that goes poorly, they don't want data available that shows it is in the process of going poorly. I don't know that that's true, but that is my worry."

For Larsen, if the politics of Governor Ron DeSantis' reopening Florida are at play, it's a no-win situation.

"The virus doesn't really give a damn if you hide its numbers."

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Mon May-25-20 08:14 AM

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318. "Rebekah Jones to make public statement Thursday ( swipeupdate)"
In response to Reply # 301


          

So a couple of key updates on this story

1. Jones went on Cuomo claiming that they asked her to delete the data and manipulate data. Says she's got receipts

https://twitter.com/CuomoPrimeTime/status/1264025676870541312?s=20

2. Jones is making a public statement on Thursday

Fired DOH official to speak out, reveals new details of alleged COVID-19 data 'manipulation' attempt

Alessandro Marazzi Sassoon, Florida TodayPublished 7:01 p.m. ET May 22, 2020 | Updated 9:22 a.m. ET May 23, 2020


Rebekah Jones, removed from her role managing Florida's COVID-19 Data and Surveillance Dashboard on May 5, and fired on Thursday, has now decided to speak out publicly for the first time since and released emails from her superiors showing that they had asked her to remove access to data and at one point requested to take the entire dashboard offline.

Jones, who was a Geographic Information Systems manager for the Florida Department of Health, entered the national spotlight after FLORIDA TODAY revealed in an email she had sent out informing researchers and other data users that she had been removed from her role managing the state's popular and acclaimed COVID-19 data portal.

"As a word of caution, I would not expect the new team to continue the same level of accessibility and transparency that I made central to the process during the first two months. After all, my commitment to both is largely (arguably entirely) the reason I am no longer managing it," she wrote.

In emails reported by CBS-12 in West Palm Beach, Jones further alleged that she was fired for refusing to "manually change data" to favor the reopening plan.

Jones was given the chance to resign by 5 p.m. Thursday or face dismissal.

She did not resign, she said in emailed messages to FLORIDA TODAY on Friday evening, and provided for the first time details about efforts of her superiors to keep data from the public to support Gov. Ron DeSantis plans to re-open the state.

"Shamarial Roberson, Deputy Secretary of Health, asked me to manipulate the data to mislead the public to support reopening mostly rural counties after the preliminary plan was already drafted and about to be presented," she told FLORIDA TODAY in an email.

Jones said this incident only involved Roberson and occurred in the last weekend of April.

In an emailed statement through a Health Department Spokesman, Deputy Health Secretary Shamarial Roberson, a doctor of Public Health denied that any manipulation had occurred.

"It is patently false to say that the Department of Health has manipulated any data," Roberson said.

But Jones said she kept records and copies of emails when it happened "because I knew it was wrong," she wrote.

Jones said what Roberson wanted her to do involved "manually editing and changing data." She said she was prepared to provide evidence she told people of the incident and "wanted to quit my job because of it, and started asking people about jobs when it happened."

In other emails she released to FLORIDA TODAY on Friday — the authenticity of which could not immediately be established — Jones revealed a chain of instructions that began on May 4 clearly telling her to not just revoke access to certain data, as reported, but to take down the whole site, because it provided access to the data.

"This whole site needs to come down," wrote Scott Pritchard. "It literally has all the data files."

Pritchard is the Interim Director of Infectious Disease Prevention and Investigations Section in the Bureau of Epidemiology's Division of Disease Control and Health Protection at the Department of Health.

Jones also provided more context to emails reported by the Tampa Bay Times and South Florida SunSentinel in which she pushed back on a command to revoke access to data on the dashboard. FLORIDA TODAY obtained those emails now independently from Ms. Jones as well. That data was for a moment taken down, before being reinstated.

"Shamarial Roberson did not understand how the dashboard nor how APIs work, and did not want the public to see non resident data nor the event date data, which the Miami Herald had confronted her and Scott Pritchard about earlier that day," Jones wrote.

API stands for application programming interface, a set of functions that allow data to be accessed.

Registering her disapproval in an email to IT Director Craig Curry she wrote "I'm not pulling our primary resource for coronavirus data because he wants to stick it to journalists."

Jones clarified that "he" refers to Pritchard.

"I pushed back against altering and deleting data, and removing the capability of the public to see the data themselves because it went against the very transparency that had made my dashboard a success and trusted resource," she wrote.

"Because I created and managed the dashboard by myself, I was the only person who could alter it or the data behind it, so they had to go come to me with requests to make changes."

Earlier this week Gov. Ron DeSantis said her removal and allegations were a "non-issue." Jones' character and credentials also came under fire as a criminal charge she is facing related to her personal life was noted by the governor.

A spokesman for the governor in previous statements said Jones was fired for repeated insubordination and for being "disruptive."

Jones appeared on CNN's Prime Time with Chris Cuomo on Friday night at the end of 9 p.m. newshour and released a statement on her blog.

The remainder of Jones' claims or questions about why Pritchard wanted the site down weren't addressed.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Thu May-21-20 08:56 AM

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304. "Lockdown Delays Cost at Least 36,000 Lives, Data Show (Swipe)"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu May-21-20 08:57 AM by navajo joe

          

There's ample blame to go around.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/coronavirus-distancing-deaths.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Lockdown Delays Cost at Least 36,000 Lives, Data Show

Even small differences in timing would have prevented the worst exponential growth, which by April had subsumed New York City, New Orleans and other major cities, researchers found.

By James Glanz and Campbell Robertson
Published May 20, 2020
Updated May 21, 2020, 9:03 a.m. ET


Total reported deaths in the United States on May 3:

United States - 65,307
New York City -17,581
Los Angeles - 1,223

Estimated deaths on May 3 if social distancing started one week earlier than it did:

United States - 29,410
New York City - 2,838
Los Angeles - 451

By Lazaro Gamio·Source: “Differential Effects of Intervention Timing on COVID-19 Spread in the United States,” by Sen Pei, Sasikiran Kandula and Jeffrey Shaman, Columbia University

If the United States had begun imposing social distancing measures one week earlier than it did in March, about 36,000 fewer people would have died in the coronavirus outbreak, according to new estimates from Columbia University disease modelers.

And if the country had begun locking down cities and limiting social contact on March 1, two weeks earlier than most people started staying home, the vast majority of the nation’s deaths — about 83 percent — would have been avoided, the researchers estimated.

Under that scenario, about 54,000 fewer people would have died by early May.

The enormous cost of waiting to take action reflects the unforgiving dynamics of the outbreak that swept through American cities in early March. Even small differences in timing would have prevented the worst exponential growth, which by April had subsumed New York City, New Orleans and other major cities, the researchers found.

“It’s a big, big difference. That small moment in time, catching it in that growth phase, is incredibly critical in reducing the number of deaths,” said Jeffrey Shaman, an epidemiologist at Columbia and the leader of the research team.

How Earlier Control Measures Could Have Saved Lives

Number of reported deaths by May 3 - 65,307

Estimated deaths if social distancing started…

One week earlier - 29,410

Two weeks earlier - 11,253

By Weiyi Cai·Source: “Differential Effects of Intervention Timing on COVID-19 Spread in the United States,” by Sen Pei, Sasikiran Kandula and Jeffrey Shaman, Columbia University

The findings are based on infectious disease modeling that gauges how reduced contact between people starting in mid-March slowed transmission of the virus. Dr. Shaman’s team modeled what would have happened if those same changes had taken place one or two weeks earlier and estimated the spread of infections and deaths until May 3.

The results show that as states reopen, outbreaks can easily get out of control unless officials closely monitor infections and immediately clamp down on new flare-ups. And they show that each day that officials waited to impose restrictions in early March came at a great cost.

After Italy and South Korea had started aggressively responding to the virus, President Trump resisted canceling campaign rallies or telling people to stay home or avoid crowds. The risk of the virus to most Americans was very low, he said.

“Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on,” Mr. Trump tweeted on March 9, suggesting that the flu was worse than the coronavirus. “At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!”

In fact, tens of thousands of people had already been infected by that point, researchers later estimated. But a lack of widespread testing allowed those infections to go undetected, hiding the urgency of an outbreak that most Americans still identified as a foreign threat.

In a statement released late Wednesday night in response to the new estimates, the White House reiterated Mr. Trump’s assertion that restrictions on travel from China in January and Europe in mid-March slowed the spread of the virus.

On March 16, Mr. Trump urged Americans to limit travel, avoid groups and stay home from school. Bill de Blasio, mayor of New York City, closed the city’s schools on March 15, and Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo issued a stay-at-home order that took effect on March 22. Changes to personal behavior across the country in mid-March slowed the epidemic, a number of disease researchers have found.

But in cities where the virus arrived early and spread quickly, those actions were too late to avoid a calamity.

In the New York metro area alone, 21,800 people had died by May 3. Fewer than 4,300 would have died by then if control measures had been put in place and adopted nationwide just a week earlier, on March 8, the researchers estimated.

All models are only estimates, and it is impossible to know for certain the exact number of people who would have died. But Lauren Ancel Meyers, a University of Texas at Austin epidemiologist who was not involved in the research, said that it “makes a compelling case that even slightly earlier action in New York could have been game changing.”

“This implies that if interventions had occurred two weeks earlier, many Covid-19 deaths and cases would have been prevented by early May, not just in New York City but throughout the U.S.,” Dr. Meyers said.

The fates of specific people cannot be captured by a computer model. But there is a name, a story and a town for every person who was infected and later showed symptoms and died in March and early April. Around the country, people separate from this study have wondered what might have been.

Rushia Stephens, a music teacher who had become a county court records technician in an Atlanta suburb, collapsed on her bedroom floor, unable to breathe, and died on March 19. Adolph Mendez, a businessman in New Braunfels, Texas, was confined to his own bedroom as his terrified family tended to him until he died on March 26. Richard Walts, a retired firefighter in Oklahoma, was ferried to a hospital in an ambulance and died two weeks later, on April 3.

Mr. Mendez’s widow, Angela Mendez, said she still couldn’t say for sure whether action should have been taken earlier. It didn’t matter now anyway, not for her husband.

“They probably could have had earlier a better way to not let this pandemic go that far,” she said. “But they didn’t.”

Official social distancing measures don’t work unless people follow them. While the measures have enjoyed generally widespread support among Americans, the findings rely on the assumption that millions of people would have been willing to change their behavior sooner.

People are apt to take restrictions much more seriously when the devastation of a disease is visible, said Natalie Dean, an assistant professor of biostatistics at the University of Florida who specializes in emerging infectious diseases. But in early March, there had been few deaths, and infections were still spreading silently through the population.

“If things are really taking off, people are likely to clamp down more,” Dr. Dean said. “Do people need to hear the sirens for them to stay home?”

Dr. Shaman’s team estimated the effect of relaxing all control measures across the country. The model finds that because of the lag between the time infections occur and symptoms begin emerging, without extensive testing and rapid action, many more infections will occur, leading to more deaths — as many as tens of thousands across the country.

The timing and circumstances of those who were infected in March raise haunting questions.

It was a Friday night in mid-March when Devin Taquino began feeling sick. Neither he nor his wife was thinking at all about the coronavirus. There were already more than 200 cases in the state by that time, but most of those cases were in the eastern part of the state, not in the small city of Donora, south of Pittsburgh.

Plus, Mr. Taquino did not fit the profile: he was only 47 years old with no underlying conditions and his main symptom — diarrhea — was not something broadly associated with the disease. He was planning to work a Saturday morning overtime shift at a call center half an hour away, but he called in sick. Offices all over the area were asking people not to come in, but Mr. Taquino’s had not taken that step.

He worked on Monday, but on Tuesday he returned home sick from work, passed out in bed and didn’t wake up for 16 hours. The next morning, his wife, Rebecca Taquino, 42, woke him up and told him they needed to get tested. She didn’t think he had the virus, but she thought it was the smart thing to do.

Without primary care doctors, they went to a nearby urgent care clinic, where they learned that his blood oxygen level was very low. The people at the clinic offered to call an ambulance, but fearing the cost, and still skeptical that this was that serious, the Taquinos chose to drive to an emergency room.

At the hospital, he was given an X-ray and diagnosed with pneumonia. He stayed, kept in an isolation unit just in case, and she returned home. The next evening, March 26, he called her with two developments. One: his work had emailed with the news that someone at the call center, where the work stations sat about a foot apart, had tested positive for the virus. The other bit of news was that he had tested positive.

There has been a lot for Ms. Taquino to think about in the weeks since that phone call, including the long days during which she never left the house and her husband’s situation got more horrifyingly worse.

Should the call center have sent the employees home earlier? When she called the center on Friday to report his condition, it was already empty: the workers had been sent home. Did they act too late?

“I kind of tossed that one back and forth myself,” she said. “I really want to blame it on them, I really do.”

Could she know definitively where he got it? It was hard to say for sure. Still, given that email the day of his diagnosis, it seemed by far the most likely possibility that he got it at work.

After three weeks of agony, Mr. Taquino died on April 10. Whether he was one of the thousands of people who might be alive if social distancing measures had been put in place a week earlier can never be known.

Ms. Taquino said officials should have known.

“If it’s spreading that fast you have to know it would have come here,” Ms. Taquino said. “They should have been implementing programs. I think it was a giant lapse in our country. There was no way to think that we were going to be spared from this.”

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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handle
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18937 posts
Thu May-21-20 10:18 AM

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305. "We'll be able to do it better next time"
In response to Reply # 304


          

Next time will be next month once everything has re-opened in most of the states.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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lightworks
Member since Feb 17th 2006
5818 posts
Thu May-21-20 04:26 PM

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306. "DC we are starting to reopen next Friday. Y'all ready???"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I am not!

Beginning to reopen at all less than a week from a federal holiday when everyone and they mama is gonna be out and about isn't smart to me.

I like the idea of the phases, they seem well though out, but timing sucks:

https://dcist.com/story/20/05/21/bowser-says-d-c-could-start-reopening-may-29-heres-what-that-would-look-like/

  

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BlakStaar
Member since May 29th 2002
1261 posts
Fri May-22-20 12:33 AM

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307. "My 12-year-old nephew has experienced covid toe since May 1"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

He hasn't been out of the house since March, save for walks with siblings in their neighborhood.

I find this perplexing. If he contracted the 'rona before lockdown, then that really speaks to how the virus' symptoms just linger on.

He has no other symptoms and no one else in the house (3 younger brothers + my sis and brother-in-law) has symptoms.

My bro-in-law (factory worker) went back to work this week. My sister (stay at home mom) has run a few errands.

I don't know, man.

--
"Music is not to be possessed; it's to be shared.” - James Mtume

"Just stay loose, keep it raw, and bang ya drums out sometimes." - Madlib

  

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GNT1986
Member since Dec 09th 2011
136 posts
Fri May-22-20 07:12 AM

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308. "RE: My 12-year-old nephew has experienced covid toe since May 1"
In response to Reply # 307


          

this is the main reason i stopped visiting my parents after valentine's day.

i was doing their grocery runs until I went down with COVID.

while I've been down, they've been doing curbside pick-up.

i'm worried about them.

my mom, dad, and brother are all high risk.


  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Fri May-22-20 02:22 PM

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311. "In good news, Cameroon Pastor claiming to heal Corona dies of Corona"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri May-22-20 02:23 PM by navajo joe

          

look at God.

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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handle
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18937 posts
Sat May-23-20 12:05 PM

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312. "Coronavirus Does Not Spread Easily on Surfaces, C.D.C. Says"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Coronavirus Does Not Spread Easily on Surfaces, C.D.C. Says

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus-touching-surfaces.html

If you’re worried about wiping down grocery bags or disinfecting mailed packages, this C.D.C. guidance might bring some relief. It’s not new information; the agency has been saying this for months.


The virus does not spread easily via contaminated surfaces, according to the C.D.C. For those who were worried about wiping down grocery bags or disinfecting mailed packages, the news headlines highlighting this guidance in recent days might have brought some relief.

But this information is not new: The C.D.C. has been using similar language for months. If anything, the headlines have pulled into sharper focus what we already know about the virus.

The coronavirus is thought to spread mainly from one person to another, typically through droplets when an infected person sneezes, coughs or talks at close range — even if that person is not showing symptoms.

“The virus that causes Covid-19 is spreading very easily and sustainably between people,” the C.D.C. says on its website. “Information from the ongoing Covid-19 pandemic suggest that this virus is spreading more efficiently than influenza, but not as efficiently as measles, which is highly contagious.”

The website also says that people can become infected by “touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes.” But those are “not thought to be the main way the virus spreads.”

According to cached versions of the website that are available online, this language has remained largely unchanged since at least late March.

The format of the C.D.C. website was slightly altered this month, but the language about surfaces remained the same. It appears to have been placed under a new subheading — “The virus does not spread easily in other ways” — on May 11, and more information about the difficulty of catching the virus from animals was added.

Kristen Nordlund, a spokeswoman for the agency, told The Washington Post that the revisions followed an internal review and were the product of “usability testing.”

“Our transmission language has not changed,” Ms. Nordlund said. “Covid-19 spreads mainly through close contact from person to person.”

Experts at the C.D.C. and elsewhere are still learning about the new coronavirus.

There are questions about how the density of virus particles could affect transmission rates. Researchers don’t yet know whether all speech, cough and sneeze droplets carrying the particles are equally infectious, or if a specific amount of virus needs to be transmitted for a person to get sick by breathing it in. A study last week found that talking alone can launch thousands of droplets into the air, and that they can remain suspended for eight to 14 minutes.

It seems that the virus spreads most easily when people are in close contact with one another — in a conversation, for example — or gathered in poorly ventilated spaces, said Linsey Marr, an aerosol scientist at Virginia Tech.

She said that in order for a person to catch the virus from a surface, it would seem that a few things would have to happen. First, the virus would have to be transmitted to the surface in large enough amounts. Then, it would have to survive on that surface until it was touched by someone else. And even if it was eventually transferred to, say, a person’s finger, it would then have to survive on the skin until that person happened to touch an eye or mouth.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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Heinz
Member since Dec 26th 2003
20758 posts
Sat May-23-20 11:58 PM

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314. "So all that to say that it does and has spread via surfaces lol "
In response to Reply # 312


  

          


----------

IG @erichrigonan

  

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handle
Charter member
18937 posts
Mon May-25-20 10:05 AM

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319. "But from a risk management standpoint it's not as dangerous as it could ..."
In response to Reply # 314


          

That's what I got.

------------


Gone: My Discogs collection for The Roots:
http://www.discogs.com/user/tomhayes-roots/collection

  

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j0510
Member since Feb 02nd 2012
2315 posts
Sat May-23-20 05:58 PM

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313. "Front page of NYT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYvAEnJXQAI34l3?format=jpg&name=medium

+ artwork by political cartoonist Michael de Adder

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXvKyqjWkAAPXkl?format=jpg&name=360x360

=

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYvGfWDX0AYFTpF?format=jpg&name=large

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Sun May-24-20 08:50 AM

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315. "Remembering the nearly 100,000 Lives Lost (NY Times Interactive Link)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

The NY Times' interactive version of today's Front Page. Brilliant presentation. Heartbreaking.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/24/us/us-coronavirus-deaths-100000.html


-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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navajo joe
Member since Apr 13th 2005
6569 posts
Sun May-24-20 08:54 AM

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316. "Microdroplets Suspending in Air (Video)"
In response to Reply # 0


          

https://vimeo.com/402577241

Video from Japan showing how microdroplets move through a room via sneeze and conversation as well as the effect on airflow of on the microdroplets

-------------------------------

A lot of you players ain't okay.

We would have been better off with an okaycivics board instead of an okayactivist board

  

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Reeq
Member since Mar 11th 2013
16347 posts
Sun May-24-20 08:23 PM

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317. "i think this memorial day weekend is gonna go down in history."
In response to Reply # 0


          

for the wrong reasons.

just looking at all of the pics and videos of these large gatherings where people are ignoring *any* type of precautions.

our current reality is constantly looking like an opening montage for a disaster flick.

  

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